The Gotthard Base Tunnel - World´s Longest Rail Tunnel (57km) [Archive]

Deadeye

November 5th, 2005, 03:42 AM

Fresh news from this amazing project:

Communiqué of 04.11.2005 (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php)

52.9 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On all construction sites of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd. the work is continuing at full speed. Of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, shafts and passages, on November 1, 2005, 81.237 km, or 52.9 percent, had already been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/gesamtuebers_gotth_gross_e.gif

The Alpine crossing
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/schnellstestrecke_g.gif

Geology
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/laengenprofiel_g.gif

Tunnel system
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Tunnelsystem.jpg

Amsteg West single-track tunnel TBM Gabi II
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/aktuell-1.jpg

Amsteg West single-track tunnel TBM Gabi II
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/aktuell-2.jpg

Faido - Breakthrough in the connecting gallery
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Faido-30.jpg

East single-track tunnel backward drive
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg-29.jpg

Control cab of tunnel boring machine
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg-(13).jpg

Backup train of tunnel boring machine
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg-(8)-Kopie.jpg

Monorail of tunnel boring machine
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/monorail_g.jpg

West single-track tunnel
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg-(16).jpg

Maintenance to cutting head of tunnel boring machine
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg-(15)-Kopie.jpg

Service train
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Stollenbahn.jpg

Overview of Sedrun construction site
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun.jpg

Shaft head
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun-(4).jpg

Hoisting gear
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/foerderung_g.jpg

Shaft bottom
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun-(27).jpg

Steel inserts
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun-32.jpg

East single-track tunnel south
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun-(12).jpg

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :dance: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

centralized pandemonium

November 5th, 2005, 06:50 AM

Been thru that once, was bloody creepy.

Brett

November 5th, 2005, 07:25 AM

cool!

Momo1435

November 5th, 2005, 01:47 PM

My tip, go to

English: http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/service/prospekte.php
Deutsch: http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/d/service/prospekte.php
Francais: http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/f/service/prospekte.php
Italiano: http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/f/service/prospekte.php

Here you can get "free" brochures from the project, they send them to me in Holland.

Some more news:
*It looks like the Porta Alpina station, on the place of the "Multifunktionsstelle Sedrun" will be build. It will serve the Surselva tourist area in Graubunden. In the vertical tunnel build for the construction there will be a lift of almost 800 meters high. link (in German): http://www.visiun-porta-alpina.ch/

*South of the Gotthard tunnel between Bellinzona and Lugano the Ceneri base tunnel will be build, this one will be only 15,4 kilometer but is an important part of the project.

@ HariR

It's not finished yet. Have you been through the old tunnel or did you visit a open day?

earthJoker

November 5th, 2005, 08:59 PM

Maybe he visited a open day :dunno:

The building sites have become a major tourist attraction.

Deadeye

November 15th, 2005, 03:52 PM

Webcams on the Sedrun construction site (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/webcam/index.php#)

De Snor

November 21st, 2005, 10:01 PM

Amazing what they do in Switzerland !
The Porta Alpina station is out of this world :eek:

Greg

November 21st, 2005, 10:14 PM

That's not all - a second tunnel is almost finish. The Lötschberg base tunnel runs from Frutigen in the Kandertal/Bernese Overland to Raron in the Valais. It is 34.6 km long and is designed as a two-tube, single-track rail tunnel, with each tube carrying trains running in opposite directions; it will come into operation in 2007. It is planned to adapt the tunnel to increasing needs in several stages.
The new Lötschberg-Basistunnel (base tunnel) between Frutigen and Raron lowers the This tunnel is part of the NEAT projects, together with the Gotthard base tunnel, and will be integrated into a European network of high speed trains, like TGV and ICE. The tunnel will allow speed around 250 km/h. It is a two-tube, single-track rail tunnel. This means that each tube is carrying trains running in one direction. The advantage is clear: trains can be scheduled continuously in both directions, the will be no waiting time. The distance between two trains depends on the security concept, and may be minimized in the future by new technologies.

scorpion

November 22nd, 2005, 02:30 AM

amazing work~~ :)

can't wait to use this tunnel!!

Bitxofo

November 22nd, 2005, 04:01 AM

Is it for high speed trains or normal trains?
:?

Momo1435

November 22nd, 2005, 08:02 PM

It's both for normal and for high speed trains, the maximum speed is 250 km/h. Normal passenger trains will have a speed of 200 km/h. But it will also be heavily used by freight trains, these will travel 100-160 km/h through the tunnel.
The High Speed trains that gonna use the tunnel are the new pendolino's from Alstom for the Cisalpino services. There will be no regional services to the tunnel.

The old route will stil be operated by regional and interregional and light and/or slow freighttrains.

@ greg
The, adapt to increasing needs means that the Lötschberg-Basistunnel, will be partly a single track line. In first intance there will probally be some waiting time, probally for freight trains.

Deadeye

December 10th, 2005, 04:17 PM

Communiqué of 01.12.2005 (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php)

54.1 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On all construction sites of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd. the work is continuing at full speed. Of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, shafts and passages, on Dezember 1st, 2005, 83.163 km, or 54.1 percent, had already been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido-web.jpg

Küsel

December 13th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Here is a map of the Lötschberg Basistunnel - it is a financial catastrophy (although a great engineering project) but had to be built for federation reasons. Bern and the Romandie also wanted to have a direct fast connection to the south. So they had to build in the same time a parallel alpine transit line to the Gotthard.
http://www.isl.uni-karlsruhe.de/wwwstud/rehwald/images/Loetschberg_Basislinie.jpg
http://www.blsalptransit.ch/bilder/home/home_Stand_Gleiseinbau_dt.gif
http://www.isl.uni-karlsruhe.de/wwwstud/rehwald/images/Gotthard_Loetschberg.jpg

And as 100 years ago, it's not the Swiss that build these modern wonders of the world, but cheap labarours from the south (in the 19th century it was manly Italians that had to work (and often die) like slaves - one of the reason for the high Italian pop in northern Switzerland)... the circumstances nowadays are a bit better, but... not that much :(
http://www.in-differenza.ch/cms/images/stories/Loetschberg.JPG
"North and South Switzerland join" ;)

empersouf

December 14th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Ive seen this on Discovery, if this tunnel is completed, the connecion of High speed trains will be much better. Cool tunnel.

Deadeye

March 31st, 2006, 12:46 AM

57.9 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php)

On March 1, 2006, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 88.89 km or 57.9% had been excavated. This means that a greater length has now been excavated on the Gotthard than on the Lötschberg. There, the entire length of tunnels and galleries excluding cross passages is 88.064 km.
The total amount driven in February 2006 was 2,235 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Stand-der-Arbeiten---Bodio_.jpg

Bertez

March 31st, 2006, 02:04 AM

Looks awesome

Tubeman

March 31st, 2006, 12:35 PM

Tuxa4evskiy

March 31st, 2006, 02:25 PM

Very impressive!

De Snor

March 31st, 2006, 09:36 PM

Druckfrisch: Das Buch über den Lötschberg-Basistunnel!

Das Buch «Von der Idee zum Durchschlag» beschreibt ausführlich den Bau des Jahrhundert-Projektes Lötschberg-Basistunnel. Von den ersten Projektideen und Skizzen bis hin zum letzten Durchschlag im April 2005

http://www.blsalptransit.ch/bilder/home/buch_titel_d_big.jpg

Auf rund 300 Seiten sehen Sie, was alles nötig ist, damit ein solch
gigantisches Projekt überhaupt realisiert werden kann. In dem gut
gegliederten Werk erfahren Sie viel Wissenswertes über die einzelnen Themenbereiche wie z.B. Geologie, Vermessung, Materialbewirtschaftung und die verschiedenen Baustellen. Das Buch ist reich illustriert mit
ausdrucksstarken Farbbildern des Fotografen Thomas Andenmatten. Eingeschoben sind zwei Teile mit Schwarzweiss-Aufnahmen von Bernard Dubuis, welche die eindrückliche Arbeit der Tunnelbauer zeigt.
Herausgeber des Werkes ist die BLS AlpTransit AG. Die Textbeiträge wurden von am Bau beteiligten Ingenieuren geschrieben. Das Buch soll sowohl Fachleute wie auch die breite Öffentlichkeit ansprechen. Es ist in unseren Info-Centern erhältlich oder kann unter www.staempfli.com bestellt werden. Bis Ende 2005 ist das Buch zum Preis von Fr. 44.– erhältlich, ab Neujahr dann zum regulären Preis von Fr. 54.–.

Schlicht, edel, audrucksvoll bebildert und mit interessanten Informationen: So präsentiert sich das Werk dem Publikum.

Worth every CHF !!

Vertigo

April 1st, 2006, 05:34 PM

VERY impressive project. This will change travel through the Alps for good.

@momochan: are you sure the old route will remain open? I heard it would perhaps be closed. That would be too bad, because it's a beautiful railway line and could function both for regional passenger trains as well as for tourists trains.

Momo1435

April 1st, 2006, 09:30 PM

@momochan: are you sure the old route will remain open? I heard it would perhaps be closed. That would be too bad, because it's a beautiful railway line and could function both for regional passenger trains as well as for tourists trains.

The SBB has hinted that it will not use the old line after tunnel opens, but the Swiss Government wants to get the line on the Unesco World Heritage List next year for it's 125th birthday. If that happens the line will remain open, but the SBB doesn't have to use it.
For now the SBB is planning to make the old line more atractive for tourists. from December 2007 there will be only fast tilting EMU's for the ICN and CIS trains and all of the slower IR trains will have a panorama car.

The future of the line is still unclear, but alot can happen until 2015, I think that the line will remain in use but I don't now how.

Coccodrillo

April 1st, 2006, 09:59 PM

On the south side there is now only one IR train each hour, yet a lot for the only 10.000 inhabitants (12.000 in 1970, 9.500 in 200, still decreasing), and still divided in a lot of villages not always served by the railroad.

The very first km of the line until Biasca have one train every 30 minutes. The tunnel begings near this town, but it is linked to the actual line south of it.

I hope they keep the line opened, also to backup the new in case of accidents.

Momo1435

April 2nd, 2006, 07:50 AM

I hope they keep the line opened, also to backup the new in case of accidents.

The SBB argues that their is no need for the old line as a back-up. If the tunnel is closed for whatever reasons, they simply use the Lötschberg Basistunnel as an alternative route. But if the old line remains open they will certainly use it in case of emergency, especially for freight trains.

tykho

April 3rd, 2006, 06:27 PM

A truly amazing project.

pflo777

April 3rd, 2006, 08:27 PM

so whats the next longer tunnel to be built?

57 km cannot be the longest tunnel mankind is able to build.....

What about china? are they not planning anything?

Momo1435

April 3rd, 2006, 08:34 PM

Maybe a railway tunnel between Japan and Korea. Although there is some serious diplomacy needed to get this one under construction.

earthJoker

April 5th, 2006, 01:47 PM

The SBB argues that their is no need for the old line as a back-up. If the tunnel is closed for whatever reasons, they simply use the Lötschberg Basistunnel as an alternative route. But if the old line remains open they will certainly use it in case of emergency, especially for freight trains.
Where you got that from, AFAIK both old lines will still be in use, only it wont be used for Intercities and freight, but still for regional and inter-regio trains.

Momo1435

April 5th, 2006, 05:49 PM

Bahnsteig4

April 5th, 2006, 07:22 PM

I love the project but I hate the Swiss for ALWAYS being better than us ;)

Seriously, not even two Austrian states (Lower Austria and Styria) can agree on a 12km Semmering-base tunnel, let alone the Brenner base tunnel... The Swiss manage to efficiently get transit traffic off the road but in the Tyrol all the motorways are still congested while the trains are still going way too slowly between Innsbruck and Italy. Somehow, noone seems to care...

Great project, congrats from an envying Austrian.

earthJoker

April 6th, 2006, 04:58 PM

I thought that to, but the SBB wasn't keen on keeping the old line open. I read it on the Internet and in various magazines, like Schweizer Eisenbahn Revue

The problem is that it is unsure what will happen with the old line. The line will become unprofitable for the SBB, that's why they initially said that it would close, see the german wiki (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthardbahn). In 2007 the results of a study by the SBB and the will be published about the future of the line. It will explore the possibilities of a tourist function for the line.
Most of the lines are unprofitable, the sbb as whole is unprovitable as a whole.

The SBB has to be profitable on cargo but today it is still subsidised for people movement.

Today there are no regional trains on the Gotthard between Erstfeld and Biasca (the main part) because the line is to busy with freight trains. The IR trains will become unprofitable because the highspeed trains through the new tunnel are much faster. It may depends on the UNESCO outcome what will happen with the old line. If it won't be on the list the chances of survival will diminish.

ps. The SBB also said that the new tunnel doesn't need a back-up beacause there are two one-track tunnels.

There are some reason why keep the old route, one major reason is the connection to the göschenen-andermatt train, wich connects to the furka-oberalp line (so grishun and vallais). There is a big project Andermatt so this could easy be a important factor soon.
Of course some want the porta alpina to do that connection.
One more reason to vote against the porta alpina.

Also the regional busses could be replaced by regional trains. And the interegios that are already there. Also extra trains that don't fit into that scedule of the base-tunnel line.

Vertigo

April 7th, 2006, 11:07 PM

I could understand SBB has not much interest in the line after the opening of the new tunnel, but perhaps the Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn (former FO) could be interested? For them it could be a nice addition to their current network. Perhaps the line would not be profitable, but there are some strong arguments for subsidies from a local government, I would think (both for regional transport and stimulating tourism).

earthJoker

April 7th, 2006, 11:50 PM

filo_2k

April 8th, 2006, 02:06 PM

so whats the next longer tunnel to be built?

57 km cannot be the longest tunnel mankind is able to build.....

What about china? are they not planning anything?

brenner basetunnel: 59km
http://www.bbt-se.com/images/Grafikordner/tunnelsystem_3d_it_gr.jpg

Momo1435

April 8th, 2006, 04:15 PM

I just(well about some hours ago) had the Idea that one of the two tracks could be replaced with a 1 meter gauge, or turned into a 3 track line. This way the trains could directly go from Andermatt to Erstfeld.

Yes, but extend the line to Altdorf, and then somehow to Stans or Luzern along the Vierstattersee. Then they should build the old plan for a 3 track line form Interlaken via Spiez to Zweisimmen. Then you can have the Galcier meets Golden Pass express. From St. Moritz to Montreux, that would be fantastic. :)

And for the longest tunnel, if they ever decide to build the north extension for the Gotthard, it's pretty easy to extend the lenght with more then 10 km.

earthJoker

April 9th, 2006, 11:05 AM

I always thought it would be great to have the Brünig line connected to the Monteux-Zweisimmen line.

From Altdorf to Stans could be hard, but it could get over the Seelisberg, with a cogwheel section, would shurely be a scenic track.

Deadeye Reloaded

July 10th, 2006, 02:32 PM

Communiqué of 03.07.2006 (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php)

62.5 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On July 1, 2006, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 96.06 km or 62.5 % had been excavated.
The total amount driven in Juin 2006 was 1,891 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido-beide-Roehren-web.jpg

BPT

July 10th, 2006, 09:37 PM

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido-web.jpg

:master: :master:

gaoanyu

July 11th, 2006, 07:00 PM

Wow, wish I could go by through it by train some time :)
Altough I know Switzerland is really expensive..

Momo1435

July 11th, 2006, 07:40 PM

^^
You can do Switserland on a low budget, just don't do anything expensive! (Yes, best travel tip ever!)

I like to go through the tunnel too, but it won't be as impressive as the old line.

Deadeye Reloaded

September 4th, 2006, 03:31 PM

64.3 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated
Communiqué of 01.09.2006 (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php)

On September 1, 2006, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 98.76 km or 64.3 % had been excavated.
The total amount driven in August 2006 was 944.0 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Baustelle-Faido1.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/gesamtuebers_gotth_gross_e.gif

Mr. Fusion

September 4th, 2006, 08:24 PM

What about china? are they not planning anything?
A while back China was talking about digging a tunnel from Taiwan to the mainland, a distance which at its narrowest point is roughly 125km. Whether it happens remains to be seen, but I think as the train to Lhasa proves, if they have the technology, very little else stands in their way. :yes:

Deadeye Reloaded

September 11th, 2006, 08:10 PM

Press release of 06.09.2006 (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/pressemitteilung.php?jahr=2006#306)
Milestone in the Gotthard Base Tunnel – First Breakthrough by a Tunnel Boring Machine

The first tunnel boring machine (TBM) in the Gotthard Base Tunnel started out in the east tunnel from Bodio in November 2002. Two months later, the second TBM started driving in the west tunnel. A number of different geological zones had to be overcome along the approximately 15 km route to the multifunction station at Faido. The highly diverse geology impaired driving progress. Modifications to both TBMs brought sharp improvements. In December 2005, with 38 metres, the TBM in the east tunnel attained the highest daily advance rate of any TBM in the Gotthard Base Tunnel to date.
Today's breakthrough at Faido took place with the expected precision. With a tunnel diameter of just under 10 metres, the deviation per 100 metres of tunnel length must not exceed 1.5 millimetres. Continuous measurements showed that the specified accuracy was maintained along the entire length of the drive. At breakthrough, the deviation of the TBM was only 2 cm vertically and 5 cm horizontally.
More than 1000 guests attended the breakthrough celebration in the multifunction station and watched as tunnellers from Bodio and Faido shook hands. In his celebratory speech, Peter Zbinden, CEO of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd, praised the precision and quality of the work, and thanked the TAT Consortium, the GBT South Engineering Consortium, and the approximately 1000 tunnellers and engineers from Faido and Bodio for their achievement.
A Construction Site Open Day will be held at Faido on Saturday, September 16, 2006, from 9 am to 6 pm. Members of the public will have a unique opportunity to see the cutting head of the TBM.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido01_d.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido02_d.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido03_d.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido01.jpg

Deadeye Reloaded

October 28th, 2006, 03:19 PM

Press release of 16.09.2006

New visitor record at AlpTransit construction site open day in Faido

Record at the AlpTransit Gotthard construction site open day in Faido: On Saturday, September 16, 2006, almost 6,000 visitors took the opportunity to view the gigantic cutting head of the tunnel boring machine and to inform themselves about construction of the world's longest railway tunnel.

The rush already started in the early hours of the morning: Nearly 6,000 people from all over Switzerland and the Lombardy region of Italy visited the construction site at Faido. The date was deliberately set soon after the breakthrough on September 6, 2006, so that visitors would have the opportunity of marvelling at the huge cutting head of the tunnel boring machine. Access to the multifunction station at Faido was provided by shuttle buses which transported the visitors through the 3 km long access tunnel under the mountains. The visitors were interested to receive from the engineers and project team members who were present knowledgeable explanations about the machines being used for the construction process.

Saturday's event was the only Construction Site Open day being held by AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd on the entire Gotthard axis this year.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T05.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T06.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T03.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T01.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T04.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/T02.jpg

Press release of 09.10.2006

More than 100 Kilometres Cut Through the Gotthard

Early this morning the second tunnel boring machine in the Amsteg section also reached its destination – about half a year earlier than planned. Since January 2004, Gabi II has cut 10,700 metres of the west tunnel. Of the total length of the Gotthard tunnel system of more than 153 km, 100 km have now already been excavated.
At 3.37 this morning, the tunnellers in the Amsteg section of the Gotthard Base Tunnel could finally complete driving with the Gabi II tunnel boring machine (TBM). This is approximately half a year ahead of schedule. Between when it started cutting in January 2004 and today, the machine has cut 10,700 metres in the west tunnel. Only about 185 more metres remain to be excavated before the boundary to the Sedrun section is reached. For technical reasons which were planned, this remaining distance will not be cut with the TBM but by drilling and blasting. This work will start in the new year and last until summer 2007.
The Gabi II TBM will be dismantled underground by February 2007 and the individual parts transported out of the tunnel on the construction railway.
After cutting the same distance of 10,700 metres in the east tunnel of the Amsteg section, the Gabi I TBM already reached the end of the mechanically driven length of the Amsteg section at the start of June 2006. Dismantling of this machine is already at an advanced stage.
Driving on the other sections of the Gotthard Base Tunnel is also progressing well. A few days ago the total distance cut reached 100 km. This means that of the total length of the Gotthard Base Tunnel of more than 153 km, approximately two thirds have now already been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/gesamtuebers_gotth_gross_e.gif

Press release of 26.10.2006

Gotthard Base Tunnel: Second tunnel boring machine arrives in Faido

After driving some 13.5 km – three years and eight months after starting out from Bodio – the second tunnel boring machine reached the multifunction station at Faido. The breakthrough took place in the afternoon with a deviation of only a few centimetres.
The second tunnel boring machine (TBM) started out in the west tunnel of the Gotthard Base Tunnel from Bodio in February 2003. A number of different difficult geological zones were overcome along the approximately 15 km route to the multifunction station at Faido. Technical modifications to the TBMs in both the east and west tunnels enabled the advance rate to be improved. In December 2005, with 38 metres, the TBM in the east tunnel attained the highest daily advance rate of any TBM in the Gotthard Base Tunnel to date.
Today's second breakthrough at Faido took place with the expected precision. With a tunnel diameter of approximately 10 metres, the deviation was only a few centimetres.
With the arrival of the second TBM in the Faido multifunction station today, mechanical driving in the Gotthard Base Tunnel is currently at a stop. Both of the machines in the south will be overhauled and transported through the Faido multifunction station. In about six months time, they will resume driving in the direction of Sedrun. As planned, the cutting heads of both machines will be enlarged by 60 cm, because in view of the greater depth of rock and the consequently higher rock pressure between Faido and Sedrun, the tunnels will be cut with a diameter of 9.40 metres.
The two tunnel boring machines between Amsteg and the boundary of the Sedrun section have also reached their destination six months and nine months ahead of schedule respectively. The TBMs will be dismantled underground and the individual parts transported out of the tunnel on the construction railway.
Driving on the other sections of the Gotthard Base Tunnel is also progressing well. The 100 km mark has already been passed. This means that of the total length of the Gotthard Base Tunnel of more than 153 km, more than two thirds have now been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/01.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/02.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/03.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/04.jpg

Some other cool pics

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/1.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/2.jpg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/3.jpg http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/4.jpg

Porta Alpina
http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/PAS-Spatenstich.jpg

:cheer::cheer::cheer::banana2::banana2::banana2::dance::banana2::banana2::banana2::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Deadeye Reloaded

November 25th, 2006, 04:13 AM

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php (Communiqué of 24.11.2006)

66.15 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On November 1, 2006, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 101.27 km or 66.15 % had been excavated.
The total amount driven in October 2006 was 893 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Amsteg-websprengen.jpg

BTW: Are here some people who are interested in this thread or should I stop posting the news?:fiddle:

harsh1802

November 25th, 2006, 05:44 AM

^^ Awesome and fantastic project......don't stop posting man.....u are doing a great job!

:cheers:

Calvin W

November 25th, 2006, 07:17 AM

Prestonian

November 26th, 2006, 12:08 AM

No don't stop, this project is incredible!

Deadeye Reloaded

November 26th, 2006, 02:19 AM

Thank you all for your support!:) Nice to see that I´m not the only fan of this project. Now I can post the news here and I know that someone will read it.:cheers:

Quente

November 26th, 2006, 06:32 AM

Thank you all for your support!:) Nice to see that I´m not the only fan of this project. Now I can post the news here and I know that someone will read it.:cheers:
I only go to the tunnel site after I see one of your updates. I appreciate the reminders on this fascinating project - thank you. Please keep posting when there's news.

Momo1435

November 26th, 2006, 06:38 PM

I should indeed post more in this topic.

The total costs of all the Neat projects are now projected to be 24 Billion SFr. That will probably even be higher as the total construction of the Gotthard and Ceneri Base tunnels will take atleast another 10 years.

Coccodrillo

November 27th, 2006, 04:55 PM

The TBM are being revised and transported to the other side of Faido station, where they will be used to excavate other (about) 12 km of tunnel.

http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=175&L=1

http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=177&L=1

Here the site of one of the companies, with some photos, but only in Italian and German: http://www.tat-ti.ch/

The Lötschberg tunnel (35 km) will be opened on 16th June 2007: http://www.blsalptransit.ch/en/frameset_e.htm

amagaldu

January 20th, 2007, 11:36 AM

Songoten2554

January 21st, 2007, 03:53 AM

wow this project is awesome and cool i mean come on the Gotthard Base Tunnel is The Longest Tunnel in the World and is currently in Construction which is great and also the other Tunnel is going to be opening this year how cool is that keep it up

Küsel

January 22nd, 2007, 06:47 PM

Because of the opening of Lötschberg Base the train fares will increase :(

Fortunatly I already bought my General Abonnement (Swiss railpass) ;)

earthJoker

February 4th, 2007, 12:17 PM

I just bought my GA for this year, fourtantly I still had to pay the old fare.

Yardmaster

February 5th, 2007, 02:03 PM

Great thread ... keep those pictures (& graphs, etc.) coming!

Deadeye Reloaded

February 16th, 2007, 02:59 AM

Hello tunnel fans! I think you deserve an update... :)

Communiqué of 01.02.2007

66.74 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On February 1, 2007, of the total of 153.5km of tunnels,
galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 102.33km
or 66.74 % had been excavated.
The total amount driven in January 2007 was 264 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Amsteg1.jpg

Status of the Work in Gotthard North (Altdorf/Rynächt)

No animated graphic available

In Lot 002, Renaturing Walenbrunnen, the structural work
will be completed by mid-February 2007. Planting will be done
in spring. The new Schachengasse (Lot 005, Preparatory Work Rynächt)
was opened to traffic on January 26, 2007. Thanks to the new section,
the construction site traffic can be largely separated from
the individual traffic and the safety of all road users thereby
increased. On January 29, 2007, the first part of pressing
the SFR main line was done. Work on the Rynächt underpass
(Lot 006) is continuing on schedule.

Overview of Altdorf-Rynächt
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Altdorf%201.jpg

Status of the Work in Erstfeld

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_erstfeld.php#

The forest road was accepted on December 13, 2006.
On January 22, 2007 a further transformer station for
the surface installation site was put into operation.
On Lot 110, Material Processing, various installation
jobs are in progress. In the next few days/weeks, the
Board of Directors will decide on the award of Lot 151,
Tunnel Construction Erstfeld.

Gravel train of Erstfeld conctruction site
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Erstfeld-(32)-Kopie.jpg

Status of the Work in Amsteg

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_amsteg.php#

In the east tunnel, preparations are being made for
drilling and blasting. In the area of the Intschizone,
the tunnel cross section is being modified along a length
of 105m . Four cable junction vaults for the 132 kV
cable have already been excavated. In the west tunnel,
dismantling of the Gabi II TBM is continuing. Of the 37
connecting galleries in total, 35 have been excavated.
In 31 connecting galleries, the concrete inner lining is
in place. In the cable duct, 25% of the cable conduit
(for the future power supply to the railway) has been installed.

Dismantling of TBM
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg%206.JPG

Status of the Work in Sedrun

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_sedrun.php#

The distance remaining to the Sedrun/Amsteg section
boundary is 337m in the east tunnel and 297m in
the west tunnel. The transitional area to the Clavaniev
zone was investigated on January 16, 2007, with a
186-meters-long core bore. The southward drive is
approximately 1,300m below the area of the Nalps
reservoir. In the east tunnel, driving has been suspended
for further exploration of an interference zone. The sealing
measures in the west tunnel are currently being concentrated
on the sealing screen around the tunnel. The shafts of
the south ventilation tunnel system have been excavated.
Both of the north waiting halls of the Porta Alpina have
been completely excavated and supported. At the end of
January 2007, excavation of Waiting Hall 2 was started in the south. :)

Shaft bottom
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun-(27).jpg

Status of the Work in Faido

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_faido.php#

On January 3, 2007, relocation of the west TBM was
started. The front part of the TBM was transported
to the area of the transverse cavern and parked there
temporarily. Both drives in the north of the MFS are
still passing through Lucomagno gneiss. Besides
excavation and supporting operations, work is also
proceeding on reprofiling and repairing localized areas
with underdimensioned cross section. Installation and
repair work on the east TBM is in progress. In the west
dismantling cavern south, the cutting head has been
completely dismantled and transported away. In the
Faido section, construction of the invert with the
backup train has already reached 600m and is 550m
away from the transverse cavern.

Mantling of TBM
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Faido%2038.JPG.jpg

Status of the Work in Bodio

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_bodio.php#

In both the west tunnel and the east tunnel,
the reprofiling work is proceeding as planned.
The daily advance rate is approximately 2m per
tunnel. To date, 75m have been reprofiled in
the west tunnel, 31m in the east tunnel. For
the complete reprofiling distance of around
1200m, the work is expected to take until the
start of 2008. In the drilling and blasting area
of the east tunnel, the concreting work for the
tunnel lining is continuing. To date in the east
tunnel, 79% of the total tunnel lining has been
completed, in the west tunnel 82%.

Installation of lining machine in east single-track tunnel
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Bodio-(21)-Kopie.jpg

Status of the Work in Gotthard South (Biasca)

No animated graphic available

At Buzza di Biasca, excavation work for the
collection basin of the Riale Vallone (Lot 609)
has started. This work has been coordinated
with the municipality of Biasca. Evaluation of
the tenders for the award of the collecting
basin (Lot 609.3) is in progress. Up to the end
of December 2006, 35,000 tonnes of old hazardous
waste had been removed from the disposal site
at Giustizia (about half of the total amount).

Overview of overground section at Biasca
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Biasca%201.JPG.jpg

Coccodrillo

February 16th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Status of the Work at Ceneri tunnel (15.4 km)

Camorino The preparations for execution of lots 711 and 714 (preloading, noise abatement embankment, relocation of the cantonal road and permanent road junctions) are in progress. The work will start in mid-March 2007. Construction of the supporting structure for the temporary bridge over the cantonal road (Lot 715) is in progress. The offices for the local construction management and the information building (Lot 712) have been erected. For lots 712 and 715, various items of external and completion work are scheduled to take place by mid-April 2007. Sigirino The award of Lot 851, underground work CAOP and FIS has become legally binding. An appeal has been submitted. The contract with the CMC consortium can therefore be signed. The work will soon be started. Tenders for Lot 853, underground work Vigana, were invited in mid-December. An on-site inspection with potential tenderers took place on January 17, 2007. The tender invitation documents for the Tunnel Main Lot 852 are being prepared. Work on the A2 underpass at Morenzee, and on the foundations for the construction site bridge at Vedeggio, is in progress. The construction site areas for the construction site accommodation and railway siding are being prepared. The temporary motorway junction for the Sigirino construction site was put into operation in December 2006.

Detailed information about the Ceneri Base Tunnel (PDF). (http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Info_Ceneri_e.pdf)

Other tunnels are planned (some are drawn in violet and green in the PDF file linked above), some of them would link directly to the Gotthard tunnel under cosntruction, bringing its lenght to 75 to 80 km.

There are other similar projects in the Alps, the Lötschberg basis tunnel (http://www.blsalptransit.ch/en/frameset_e.htm) (35 km, opens June 2007), the new Lyon-Turin (http://www.ltf-sas.com/index2.php?lg_visite=en) railway (main tunnels would be 20+20+52 km), and the new Brenner (http://www.bbt-se.com/index.php?lang=en) line (main tunnel 56 km, plus acces lines mainly in tunnel).

The Lyon-Turin and Brenner lines are planned, some initial works are being done, but it is not known if they will be built or not.

Yappofloyd

February 27th, 2007, 11:21 PM

Deadeye Reloaded, many thanks for your constant updates. It is much appreciated.

Quente

March 21st, 2007, 04:01 PM

Here's a link to an article in the BBC which gave a good overview of the project:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6471241.stm

There are several links from the article including this one for the Porta Alpina project (in German):
http://www.visiun-porta-alpina.ch/

There's a video showing an animation of the underground train station at Porta Alpina if you look in the right-hand margin at the top. Again, it's all in German.

Some highlights from the article:

* The initial budget for the project has "soared from about $8bn (£4bn) to almost $15bn and final completion is unlikely to be before 2018."

* I was unfamilar with the Porta Alpina project: "The original plans for the tunnel involved trains rushing beneath the Alps without stopping. But in Sedrun a 1,000-metre elevator and underground railway station have been built just to get the workers to the construction site."All the infrastructure is already there," points out Arthur Loretz. "What we want to do is use it in the future." The plan is to create a station, deep in the mountains, known as "Porta Alpina" (Gateway to the Alps)."

* Once completed, the trains will "reach speeds of 240km/h (149mph), reducing the travel time between Zurich and Milan from today's four hours to just two-and-a-half. That would make the journey faster than flying."

* "The scale of the work going on is enormous: 2,000 people are working on the tunnel, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year."

It really is an impressive project.

Küsel

March 21st, 2007, 04:36 PM

I read there is an exhibition center in Faido - I want to visit it as soon as I find the time and take some pics ;)

Coccodrillo

March 21st, 2007, 07:57 PM

In Faido I don't know.

There is one in Bodio.

Trainman Dave

April 23rd, 2007, 07:01 PM

I was curious, and I suppose this applies to all long tunnels, what's its shelf life considering the Alps are still actively being thrust upwards due to tectonic activity?

Will it start to crack in a few years? At what point will it start to become too misaligned?

Not soon, I'm sure... But you get my point?

No one seemed to answer this question., so here is an attempt.

Most tetconic activity is measured in millimeters per century which translates in relatively small shifts when compared to abjustments which are made during ballast renewal on a regular basis. Inflexible concrete slabs may present a problem.

The major issue is catastrophic geologic events such as earthquakes. I was once asked to review a proposal for a railroad tunnel which would cross the San Andreas fault in California. The requirements called for the tunnel and track to be able to withstand a lateral shift along the fault of more than 3 meters with less than 48 hours of down time! I considered that an ambitious, expensive but doable objective. This requirement applied only known faulting.

Yardmaster

April 25th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Jean Luc

April 25th, 2007, 03:43 PM

^ Is tectonic and/or seismic activity a problem with the existing 100+ year-old tunnels through the Alps? If not, then I guess it won't be for these new tunnels either.

Momo1435

April 25th, 2007, 07:16 PM

There are small earthquakes on a daily basis in Switzerland but they are only small. And the tunnel is not located in an area that has lot's of earthquakes. The last notable earthquake in Switserland was in 1946 in Sitten-Siders with a probable magnitude of 5.7 and didn't do much damage. The earthquake in Basel in 1356 with a magnitude of 6.2 did more damage and had a deathtoll of around 300. So there is always a chance of a big earthquake, but it probably won't be a problem. Look at Japan, there are lot's of tunnels that are build in areas with lot's of seismic activity.

A bigger problem are the forces in the mountain that could be a problem when they become too big and start effecting the tunnel. The tunnels ofcourse will be monitored on little changes that could lead to bigger problems.

Momo1435

June 9th, 2007, 10:04 AM

After 8 years of construction the 34,6 km long Lötschberg Base Tunnel will be opened next Saturday, June 16th!

There will be festivities on both ends of the tunnel in Frutigen and Visp with info tours and catering. There will also be a LBT shuttle that runs every half hour trough the tunnel, but you need to reserve a seat for CHF 10.00.

http://www.blsalptransit.ch/en/home/home_eroeffnung_e.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And some Gotthard Base Tunnel news, the decision to build the Porta Alpina station has been delayed until 2012. There are still serious questions about
the costs and especially the actual operation of the station.
http://www.visiun-porta-alpina.ch/

One of the problems is that the lift can only take 80 persons out of the station at once. In peak periods the amount of travelers is predicted at over 300 people per train. This means that not everybody can leave the underground station in one go, resulting in 30 minute delays. This has big operational problems because when there are still people on the platform the train cannot leave due to safety reasons. New waiting rooms that are sealed of from the tunnel has to build.
Travelers from Sedrun to the train also has to take a delay into account, if you come late when it's busy there is a big possibility that the bus to the lift and the lift itself is full and then miss your train. The question is if people won't mind the complex and long trip from the train to Sedrun.

When in 2012 they decide to still go through the station will be operational 3 years after the completion of the tunnel in 2018

Coccodrillo

June 9th, 2007, 06:11 PM

The opening of the tunnel is expected in 2018.

But it looks me strange, boring of the tunnel will probably be finished in 2011. That is, 7 years to complete the tunnel, laying tracks and do the tests seems to me too much time.

Yardmaster

June 9th, 2007, 06:12 PM

Congratulations re. the Lötschberg Base Tunnel!

Momo1435

June 9th, 2007, 07:19 PM

@Coccodrillo

You're right, I promptly wrote the old opening year down. Although the Alptransit website still says it will be completed late 2016.

gnarv

June 15th, 2007, 11:39 AM

Today the Loetschberg Tunnel was officially opened! It has been completed exactly in time and costed 4.3 billion Swiss Francs. Meanwhile the Gotthard Basis tunnel costs more and more every day and its opening was postponed again to 2017. :ohno: :lol:

railcity

June 15th, 2007, 11:51 AM

A collection of video-reports can be viewed here:

Gotthard:
http://www.sf.tv/sfwissen/dossier.php?docid=10238&navpath=pol

Porta Alpina:
http://www.sf.tv/sfwissen/dossier.php?docid=10230&navpath=pol

NEAT in general:
http://www.sf.tv/sfwissen/dossier.ph...07&navpath=pol

Coccodrillo

June 19th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Deadeye Reloaded

August 7th, 2007, 02:35 AM

It´s been a while since the last update...:pet:

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/index.php

Communiqué of 03.08.2007

68.1 percent of the Gotthard Base Tunnel excavated

On August 1, 2007, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 104.4 km or 68.1 % had been excavated.
The total amount driven in July 2007 was 359 metres.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/Faido-5.jpg

Status of the Work in Gotthard North (Altdorf/Rynächt)
Work on the Rynächt underpass (Lot 006) is progressing according to plan. Now that the awards of the road construction (Lot 007) and Rynächt Embankment (Lot 012) have become legally effective, the work contracts are being drawn up. Construction work on Lot 007 will start in September 2007 and on Lot 012 in autumn 2007.

Construction of Rynächt underpass
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Rynacht%2011.jpg.jpg

Status of the Work in Erstfeld
The structure of the information pavilion is standing, and interior work will start very soon. The visitor pavilion and office building are also going up. In the East Preparatory Cut, assembly of the gantry crane is complete and parts for the TBM are arriving continuously. Replacement of the pre-loading ballast for the assembly of the TBM has started. On Lot 106 (Water Treatment), assembly work has started on the control and measuring instruments. The retention basins have been re-leased for use. Various assembly and installation works are in progress on Lot 110 (Spoil Processing).

Parts of TBM
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Erstfeld49.jpg.jpg

Status of the Work in Amsteg
Drilling and blasting in the east tunnel was completed on May 31, 2007. The final 20 m to the Amsteg/Sedrun section boundary will be excavated from Sedrun. In the west tunnel, approximately 90 m remain to be driven by drilling and blasting. In the east tunnel, approximately 1,200 m of tunnel roof have been concreted.

Dismantling of TBM
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Amsteg_4.jpg.jpg

Status of the Work in Sedrun
In both tunnels, driving in the northern direction is still proceeding at a good rate. The west tunnel is already in the Clavaniev Zone, which has not presented any constructional problems so far. Instead of the forecast advance rate of 0.4 m per day, driving is still proceeding at an advance rate of around 1.5 m per day. In the northward drives, the average remaining distance to the Sedrun/Amsteg boundary is just under 125 m. The southward drive in the west tunnel is proceeding well. On the southward drive in the east tunnel, a further core bore to explore for waterbearing zones has been completed. The results of the core bores indicate that no major water ingresses or corresponding injection campaigns need be expected in the remainder of the drive.

Ventilation tunnel
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Sedrun%2033.jpg

Status of the Work in Faido
Assembly and modification of the east TBM is very nearly complete. Driving towards Sedrun will begin on July 6, 2007. On June 4, 2007, the backup train for installing the concrete base was joined to the front part of the TBM. On the west TBM, the new cutting head has been assembled and already mounted on the TBM. Installation of the invert with the backup train is proceeding.

East single-track tunnel north
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Faido%2037.JPG.jpg

Status of the Work in Bodio
Since the start of May, 2007, the reprofiling work is generally only being continued in the east tunnel. To date, 240 m out of a total of 380 m have been completed (= 63%). The work in the east tunnel is expected to be completed at the end of July 2007. While this work is being done, trains are passing through the west tunnel where for reasons of safety no further reprofiling work can be done. After the August holidays, reprofiling work for the remaining 340 m (of a total of 635 m) will be started in the west tunnel and is expected to the completed by the end of the year.

Tunnel face
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Bodio-(14).jpg

Status of the Work in Gotthard South (Biasca)
On June 19, 2007, the cleaning-up work on the former hazardous waste disposal site at Giustizia was accepted as complete (Lots 623 + 623.1).

Overview of overground section at Biasca
http://www.alptransit.ch/upload/galerie/big/Biasca%201.JPG.jpg

railcity

September 10th, 2007, 03:23 PM

Gotthard railway celebrates 125 years

http://www.swissinfo.org/xobix_media/images/keystone/2007/keyimg20070906_8177415_0.jpg
The church at Wassen, a landmark on the Gotthard line, is draped in red for the 125th anniversary celebrations (Keystone)

Swiss President Micheline Calmy-Rey has marked the 125th anniversary of the Gotthard railway line, saying its inauguration “opened Switzerland to Europe”.

She was speaking in the southern town of Bellinzona in the presence of 200 guests from Switzerland and abroad at the beginning of four days of official celebrations.

“The opening of the Gotthard tunnel not only showed the world the know-how of Swiss engineers, but also permanently shaped the history and identity of Switzerland,” she said.

Local politicians north and south of the tunnel in cantons Uri and Ticino emphasised the importance of the 15 km-long tunnel, calling for it to be preserved after the opening of the new Gotthard base tunnel, foreseen in 2018.

The chief executive of the Swiss Federal Railways, Andreas Meyer, also cast an eye into the future, praising the idea of Ticino’s tourism president, Marco Solari, to hold the next Swiss national exhibition in the Gotthard region in 2020.

“We support this idea which very much makes us happy at the Swiss Federal Railways, even though its form still has to be discussed,” he said.

Not so optimistic

Historian and journalist Orazio Martinetti told swissinfo that he was not so optimistic about the preservation of the line.

“Maintenance of this line costs the Swiss Federal Railways about SFr50 million ($41.6 million) a year. Why should such a sum be invested in the future after the completion of the Gotthard base tunnel?

“In other words, the risk of seeing this line fall into disuse is a real one. You could hope to save it as a tourist attraction, as cantons Uri and Ticino would like. They want to see it as a Unesco cultural heritage site but I strongly doubt that it will become one.”

Martinetti said that on the technical level the Gotthard railway line remained a masterpiece of civil and rail engineering and the plans that were drawn at the time were stunning with their precision.

“In terms of history, the work reminds you of the savagery of the Wild West because of the tensions which broke out into violence several times during construction, like a workers’ uprising.”

More than 2,500 men were working at times on the tunnel. The conditions were so bad that they eventually downed tools in 1875. Several deaths were reported when police and a vigilante group of volunteers used force to end the strike.

Those attending the official celebrations on Thursday spared a thought for the 170 men who lost their lives constructing the tunnel, although modern research puts the figure at closer to 200.

Much to offer

Today, railway buffs and travellers in general discover that the main transalpine artery from north to south still has much to offer - bridges galore, steep climbs and descents with spirals, and a tunnel that has made a name for itself around the world.

The Gotthard line offers views that few other routes can rival. “The fantastic scenery makes it one of the most exciting journeys for any passenger,” London-based travel writer Anthony Lambert told swissinfo.

He is in two minds about the new 57-km long Gotthard base rail tunnel being built between Erstfeld and Bodio.

“My only slight reservation is that tourists come to Switzerland because you have the finest landscapes in Europe and they will miss many of the wonderful views of the Gotthard if they’re in a tunnel all the time,” he commented.

Historian Martinetti hopes that the old Gotthard line now being celebrated will still have recognition in the future.

“I think that history lessons in Switzerland should always have a place for the Gotthard railway,” he said.

swissinfo with agencies

Coccodrillo

September 10th, 2007, 09:41 PM

Some news about the Ceneri Base Tunnel: http://snipurl.com/1qiow

earthJoker

September 13th, 2007, 05:31 PM

Good news: The porta-alpina project is canceled:
http://www.news.ch/Porta+Alpina+eine+Vision+mit+zu+hohem+Risiko/287012/detail.htm
(only german)

Momo1435

September 13th, 2007, 07:16 PM

It would've been a great train station, but it's better that it's canceled. I'm a bit surprised that it was the canton Graubünden that canceled it, I thought they were the biggest supporters of this project. But luckily most of the partners in the project are on one line right now.

Deadeye Reloaded

October 24th, 2007, 03:12 AM

A new milestone reached and the digging continues... :cheers2:

source: http://www.alptransit.ch

Press release of 17.10.2007

Gotthard Base Tunnel: Breakthrough in west tunnel between Sedrun and Amsteg

Squeezing Rock Conditions Successfully Overcome

After one final blast, at 11 am today tunnellers from Sedrun and Amsteg could shake hands. Nine months earlier than planned, breakthrough took place in the west tunnel of the Gotthard Base Tunnel between the Sedrun and Amsteg sections with a horizontal deviation of just under 15 cm and a vertical deviation of only 1 cm. The concept of deformable steel inserts that was developed specially for the squeezing rock conditions of the Tavetsch Intermediate Massif proved a total success.

In the squeezing rock conditions of the Tavetsch Intermediate Massif North near Sedrun, a constructionally difficult zone with a length of approximately 1,200 metres had to be crossed. To counter the immense rock pressure, new methods of tunnel construction were used at Sedrun. In the squeezing rock conditions of this section, excavated cavities tend to close again unless countermeasures are taken. To provide support for keeping the excavated cross-section open, deformable steel rings were inserted which gradually close under the pressure of the squeezing rock until their maximum supporting force is attained. Although this technology was already known from German coal mines, it had never before been applied in these dimensions in tunnel construction.
The selected concept with deformable steel inserts more than fulfilled expectations. Despite sometimes very large deformations, driving and securing work in the difficult geological conditions of the north drive progressed so well that breakthrough took place nine months ahead of schedule.
Driving in the Amsteg section was completed a long time ago. After each cutting a length of 10.7 km at outstanding advance rates, both tunnel boring machines reached their destination several months ahead of schedule: nine months in the east tunnel, six months in the west tunnel.
Of the total length of 153.5 km of the tunnel system being constructed under the Gotthard, on October 1, 2007, 105.1 km or 68.6 percent had been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/DSC02927.JPG

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/DSC02973.JPG

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/DSC03013.JPG

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/aktuell/DSC03045.JPG

Lightness

October 24th, 2007, 04:17 AM

Thanks for the update. I love following this development, it's such a cool project!

Quente

November 7th, 2007, 06:24 AM

Coccodrillo

December 24th, 2007, 07:49 PM

A freight train exiting the old Gotthard Tunnel (15 km/9.3 miles) on the 23rd December 2007.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3440/gotthardtunnelnordua2.jpg

Will this 9 month lead, which is very impressive, have any bearing on the completion date or is the project behind schedule in other areas?

Who knows?

The last breakthrough is scheduled between 2011 and 2012,
the opening in 2017.

Both dates are official, I don't know why they have scheduled
5 years between the last breakthrough and the opening.
Maybe because they expect delays with the boring.

Another pic taken yesterday: the TBM that will build the
intermediate access (2.5 km/1.5 mi)for the Ceneri Base Tunnel
(15 km/9.3 mi, but not very deep):

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5651/ceneritbmsigirinoxe3.jpg

Mr. Fusion

December 25th, 2007, 02:06 AM

The Swiss are drilling so many holes in the Alps these days its gonna end up looking like, you know... :hug:

Coccodrillo

February 16th, 2008, 04:07 PM

On Friday 15/02/2008 the TBM started boring the second intermediate acces tunnel for the Ceneri base Tunnel.

This tunnel is 2,3 km/1.43 miles long, and not 2.5 as I have written before.

The TBM has a diameter of 9.7 m/32 ft, and has previously excavated some tunnels in Iceland with a diameter of 7.5 m/24.6 ft.

After 2.3 km excavated with this TBM a cavern will be built by drill&blast. This part of the work will last for 2 years.

Details here (http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/news-detail.php?pid=547&querystring=week%3D%26year%3D%26head%3D%26newsdescription%3D&sqlSearch=SELECT+%2A+FROM+news) (English) or here (http://www.tunnelbuilder.it/headline_3707_1.htm) (Italian).

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4654/bz0142574v12008215sigiruz7.jpg

Quente

August 28th, 2008, 11:26 PM

It's been over 6 months since the last post on this project - any news?

Coccodrillo

August 29th, 2008, 12:56 PM

Work is still underway. Tunnelling works will probably end in 2011.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of August 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 115.2 km, or 75.1%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in July 2008 was 2060 m.

As of August 1, 2008, 1302 m, or 56%, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.

fishcatdogbird

August 29th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Where is all the dirt going? Is it being used on other parts of the line to raise it or are they making a new mountain somewhere?

Coccodrillo

August 29th, 2008, 04:57 PM

^^ the rock excavated from the mountain?

They have build some small islands in a lake, closed some rock quarries, used to manufacture concrete for the tunnel itself and other projects, used for the construction of the 11 km of railway outside the tunnel or stocked where possible.

The valley at page 24 of the PDF below has been filled with rock. The islands are shown at page 30.

When possible, rock has been transported with belt conveyors, trains and even boats instead of trucks.

See http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/img/projekt/The_new_Gotthard_rail_link.pdf (PDF, 6 MB)

Coccodrillo

August 30th, 2008, 08:26 PM

Five TBM are in use now. Below is what they have excavated and what they have still to do.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3761/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg/1/w1005.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img404/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg/1/)

The other Dude

September 4th, 2008, 03:26 AM

Where is all the dirt going? Is it being used on other parts of the line to raise it or are they making a new mountain somewhere?

they made some artificial islands in the vierwaldstättersee. :banana: well, thats only a small part of all the excavated rock.

http://www.seeschuettung.ch/seiten/eroeffnung.html
http://www.story.presence.ch/images/1/2007-03-15_10-01-36_DieKehrseitedesTunnels.preview.jpg
http://www.afu-uri.ch/DesktopModules/ViewImage.aspx?ImageId=666
http://www.afu-uri.ch/DesktopModules/ViewImage.aspx?ImageId=665

huge pic of the whole lower valley ( you can even see the NEAT construction site in the back of the valley. and even my house :-D
http://www.ur.ch/dateimanager/sicht-urnersee-06.jpg

mgk920

September 4th, 2008, 05:38 AM

What's the latest on the fates of the 'old' lines that this and the other 'base' tunnels will replace?

Mike

Quente

September 4th, 2008, 08:22 AM

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of August 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 115.2 km, or 75.1%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in July 2008 was 2060 m.

As of August 1, 2008, 1302 m, or 56%, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.

Five TBM are in use now. Below is what they have excavated and what they have still to do.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3761/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg/1/w1005.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img404/alptransitscavatixt2.jpg/1/)

Before I ask my potentially dumb question, let me just say it's 2:06 in the morning and my brain is semi-fried from working on some CSS coding for a website. (I also think I wiped out a few brain cells while listening to US Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin's acceptance speech at the Republican convention!). :bash:

But I digress . . .

Is there a correlation between the percentages above and the bar graph below? While I see the connection between the Sigirino bar graph and the 56% quoted, I'm not seeing the 75.1% represented in the bar graph - what am I missing (besides a brain)?:nuts:

Thanks - Kent

Quente

September 4th, 2008, 08:22 AM

huge pic of the whole lower valley ( you can even see the NEAT construction site in the back of the valley. and even my house :-D
http://www.ur.ch/dateimanager/sicht-urnersee-06.jpg

I'm envious - what a beautiful place.

Momo1435

September 6th, 2008, 01:38 PM

But I digress . . .

Is there a correlation between the percentages above and the bar graph below? While I see the connection between the Sigirino bar graph and the 56% quoted, I'm not seeing the 75.1% represented in the bar graph - what am I missing (besides a brain)?:nuts:

Thanks - Kent
In the graph you only see the progress of the TBMs, if you add all the target lengths you will only come just under 40 km. That's significantly less then the total of 153.3 km of tunnels. Not all of the tunnel and especially not all the supporting tunnels are build with a TBM, so there's your difference.

Coccodrillo

September 6th, 2008, 04:27 PM

The GBT is divided in five parts, each composed of two parallel tubes. Two parts have been completed by TBM, two are being excavated with TBM and one is being excavatcavated by drill&blast.

http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/stand_arbeiten_gotth.php

Sigirino is an acces tunnel for the Ceneri Base Tunnel. This tunnel will be excavated mainly from there, also because the southern portal is in a very unpractical position. As of 1st September, the Sigirino acces has been excavated for 1572 m, or 68%.

Coccodrillo

September 14th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of September 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 115.2 km, or 75.7%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in August 2008 was 877 m.

As of September 1, 2008, 1572 m, or 68 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.

Coccodrillo

October 4th, 2008, 04:45 PM

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 118.4 km, or 77.2%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in September 2008 was 2,3 km.

As of Oktober 1, 2008, 1813 m, or 78 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.

hans280

October 6th, 2008, 01:18 PM

^^ Well, as one says in Switzerland, "Sie reissen sich nicht die Beine aus..." (Transl.: they're in no great hurry.) Eight hundred metres progress in August - presumably because everybody was away on vacation. That's a far cry from the frenzied pace of the Chinese, working 7/7, 24/24 including Christmas night and Buddhist Passover on their hundreds of kilometers of tunnels. But, it must be said, by our European standards this is a bl**dy impressive project. And, in all fairness, I understand that their slow pace lately has been because the rock in what is now the main drilling zone continually threatens to come down in a heap.

earthJoker

October 7th, 2008, 08:12 AM

I am very sure that the Gotthard is been drilled 7/7, 24/24. Alone the cost of unused drill machines would by far to hight to leave the tunnel for vacations.

And this will be the largest tunnel of the world, I have no idea why you talking about "by European standards".

hans280

October 7th, 2008, 02:50 PM

^^Well, I checked with older pages of alptransit.ch: the drilling actually stopped for summer vacations for several weeks in August. That said, I don't know whether they don't simply use this break for necessary maintenance work.

As regards your other question, yes of course, Gotthard is the longest railway tunnel in history, but I was speaking of infrastructure in the larger sense. I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2. :lol:

fishcatdogbird

October 7th, 2008, 03:13 PM

railcity

October 8th, 2008, 11:48 AM

I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2. :lol:

Yes, that's very impressive! Anyway, also in the PR China, they started to put more emphasis on economics in their infrastructure projects.

earthJoker

October 9th, 2008, 01:27 PM

As regards your other question, yes of course, Gotthard is the longest railway tunnel in history, but I was speaking of infrastructure in the larger sense. I'm gobsmacked at how the Chinese for example have been able, literally in a few years, to knock up a highspeed line from Central-Eastern China (Wuhan I think...) down to Canton. That's 800 km through mountains, about half of which in tunnels, and one fourth on viaducts. I don't think the planners in Beijing would dither back and forth about a bagatelle like Zimmerberg 2. :lol:
I agree with you on the Zimmerberg 2. That's a polical thing.

Coccodrillo

October 10th, 2008, 09:39 AM

^^Well, I checked with older pages of alptransit.ch: the drilling actually stopped for summer vacations for several weeks in August. That said, I don't know whether they don't simply use this break for necessary maintenance work.

The break is for both reasons, holidays and maintenance of the TMBs.

Press release of 08.10.2008

Successful drive into the Piora syncline from Faido
Driving the Gotthard Base Tunnel through the Piora syncline is progressing well: the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel has already cut through 74 percent of this geologically challenging zone. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd expects cutting of the east tunnel through the Piora to be completed in mid-October 2008.

At the end of August 2008, the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel was parked around 100 m ahead of the Piora syncline. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd then drove a core bore with a diameter of approximately 10 centimetres through the Piora. The results of this bore confirm the forecast that was made based on earlier exploratory bores in this area: at tunnel level, the Piora syncline is about 150 m long and composed of dolomitic rock that is hard and bears no water.
Since September 29, 2008, the first tunnel boring machine has been traversing the Piora syncline. The average daily advance rate is around 10 m. To prevent the tunnel boring machine from becoming jammed under the high pressure conditions, steel rings are being installed at intervals of 1 m behind the cutting head. Also immediately behind the cutting head, a shotcrete seal is being applied to protect the cut surface. Finally, approximately 25 m behind the cutting head, a 30 cm thick shotcrete ring is being constructed.
Some 74 percent of the Piora has already been cut through. To date, the rock behaviour has been stable. There have been no indications of unacceptable deformations, and no water has been encountered. Provided that construction continues to progress at this good rate, the east tunnel will have crossed the Piora syncline as from mid-October 2008.
The drive in the west tunnel is currently 1,600 m behind the east tunnel. The tunnel boring machine in the west tunnel is expected to reach the Piora syncline in the first quarter of 2009.

Status of work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

Construction work on the Gotthard axis is still on schedule. On the Ceneri Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, at Sigirino 78% of the window adit had been excavated. There is currently no driving work in progress on the main tunnels.
On the Gotthard Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages, 118.4 km, or 77 %, had been excavated. At Erstfeld, both tunnel boring machines are advancing very well at
14 - 17 m per day. At Amsteg, concreting of the vault will be completed by the end of 2008. At Sedrun, driving in the west tunnel towards the south is progressing according to plan. Driving in the east tunnel is taking place in a geologically difficult zone which, at more than 100 m, is considerably longer than forecast. At Bodio, concreting the inner lining of both tunnels was completed in summer 2008.
Provided that all continues to proceed as planned, the main breakthrough on the Gotthard Base Tunnel will take place in the first half of 2011. Commercial operation of the Gotthard Base Tunnel with scheduled train services is planned to start at the end of 2017.

From http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/e/aktuell/pressemitteilung.php?jahr=2008#383

Note that the expected main breakthrough is scheduled now for the first half of 2011, instead of autumn 2011.

There about 35 km left. If boring continues at a speed of 2,2 km per month as today (except in this short Piora zone) the main breakthrough could be at the beginning of 2010.

And considering that one the Lötschberg base tunnel the breakthrough was in April 2005, and the opening in June 2007, the Gotthard base tunnel could be opened between June 2012 and 2013. But apparently the builders are very pessimistics and say that the tunnel will open in 2017.

hans280

October 10th, 2008, 12:15 PM

^^ Well, I myself lived in CH in "my youth" and I would not be surprised that they should have padded their estimates. I know of no people like the Swiss who hate negative surprises (unlike the French who "aiment la pagaille" - or at least accept it), including delays and budget overruns. All constuction plans - as well as the time tables of trains, BTW - therefore tend to be overly cautious to assure the service providers that even if things start going wrong the plans can still be honoured.

What's the odds that they'll come out of the Gotthard work with a couple of billions CHF of unspent money? And that they'll be "very surprised" and suggest that this "windfall" may be spent on connecting railway work such as... hey, Zimmerberg? Pretty strong, I'd have said. :)

earthJoker

October 10th, 2008, 09:46 PM

There wont be any extra money from the Gotthard Base tunnel. The reason is mostly because the safety standards have been rised, so extra money is needed. But maybe in the end they will need less extra money then expected. The Bahn 2000 (Mattstetten - Rothrist) was cheaper than calculated.

Coccodrillo

October 18th, 2008, 06:39 PM

The Piora zone has been traversed without any big problem.

Pressemitteilung vom 08.10.2008

Successful drive into the Piora syncline from Faido
Driving the Gotthard Base Tunnel through the Piora syncline is progressing well: the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel has already cut through 74 percent of this geologically challenging zone. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd expects cutting of the east tunnel through the Piora to be completed in mid-October 2008.

At the end of August 2008, the tunnel boring machine in the east tunnel was parked around 100 m ahead of the Piora syncline. AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd then drove a core bore with a diameter of approximately 10 centimetres through the Piora. The results of this bore confirm the forecast that was made based on earlier exploratory bores in this area: at tunnel level, the Piora syncline is about 150 m long and composed of dolomitic rock that is hard and bears no water.
Since September 29, 2008, the first tunnel boring machine has been traversing the Piora syncline. The average daily advance rate is around 10 m. To prevent the tunnel boring machine from becoming jammed under the high pressure conditions, steel rings are being installed at intervals of 1 m behind the cutting head. Also immediately behind the cutting head, a shotcrete seal is being applied to protect the cut surface. Finally, approximately 25 m behind the cutting head, a 30 cm thick shotcrete ring is being constructed.
Some 74 percent of the Piora has already been cut through. To date, the rock behaviour has been stable. There have been no indications of unacceptable deformations, and no water has been encountered. Provided that construction continues to progress at this good rate, the east tunnel will have crossed the Piora syncline as from mid-October 2008.
The drive in the west tunnel is currently 1,600 m behind the east tunnel. The tunnel boring machine in the west tunnel is expected to reach the Piora syncline in the first quarter of 2009.

Status of work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

Construction work on the Gotthard axis is still on schedule. On the Ceneri Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, at Sigirino 78% of the window adit had been excavated. There is currently no driving work in progress on the main tunnels.
On the Gotthard Base Tunnel as of October 1, 2008, of the total of 153.5 km of tunnels, galleries and passages, 118.4 km, or 77 %, had been excavated. At Erstfeld, both tunnel boring machines are advancing very well at
14 - 17 m per day. At Amsteg, concreting of the vault will be completed by the end of 2008. At Sedrun, driving in the west tunnel towards the south is progressing according to plan. Driving in the east tunnel is taking place in a geologically difficult zone which, at more than 100 m, is considerably longer than forecast. At Bodio, concreting the inner lining of both tunnels was completed in summer 2008.
Provided that all continues to proceed as planned, the main breakthrough on the Gotthard Base Tunnel will take place in the first half of 2011. Commercial operation of the Gotthard Base Tunnel with scheduled train services is planned to start at the end of 2017.

Coccodrillo

November 4th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Communiqué of 03.11.2008

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

As of November 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 120.5 km, or 78.6%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in October 2008 was 2,1 km.

As of November 1, 2008, 2263 m, or 98 %, of the 2.3-km-long window adit at the Sigirino intermediate heading had been excavated.

panda80

December 5th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Communiqué of 02.12.2008

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of December 1, 2008, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 120.5 km, or 80.2 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in November 2008 was 2.4 km.

On the Ceneri, an important milestone could be celebrated. On November 6, 2008, at Sigirino, breakthrough of the access tunnel took place.

from alptransit.ch
seems works are progressing well.:)

Coccodrillo

December 5th, 2008, 10:51 PM

On the websites of the three groups of companies that are building the tunnel there are frequent updates about works:

http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1 then "Rapporto settimanale avanzamento Faido" (updated every Friday)

http://www.agn-amsteg.ch/

http://www.transco-sedrun.ch/

In the Faido section the eastern TBM is progfressing slowly after the diffucult Piora section. The western TBM is before Piora and is faster.

keber

December 6th, 2008, 08:44 PM

With that current pace of digging all tunnels could be bored until beginning of 2010. Is it possible?

Momo1435

December 9th, 2008, 12:03 AM

^^ With a small calculation based on the latest Communiqué posted by panda80 it should be possible to finish in 14 months if they continue with the same speed.

(153.3 - 120.5)/2.4 = 13,67 months

Then early 2010 should be possible, even late 2009 if you count from November 2008. But since they speed isn't always the same and since there can always be delays it's not easy to predict right now.

Quente

December 9th, 2008, 03:13 AM

With that current pace of digging all tunnels could be bored until beginning of 2010. Is it possible?
It's a question I asked this time last year with the breakthrough in the west tunnel between Sedrun and Amsteg that was 9 months ahead of schedule. According to Coccodrillo, the last tunnel breakthrough is scheduled between 2011 and 2012. But as mentioned by Momo above, they could finish this by late 2009/early 2010 if they're able to maintain the current pace.

It's a smart strategy - base the tunneling schedule on the worst case scenario and if you get it done earlier, you're a hero. Underpromise, overdeliver - very smart.

Coccodrillo

December 9th, 2008, 10:41 AM

Quente

December 10th, 2008, 08:14 AM

If all goes well...breakthrough april 2010, testing from mid 2010-mid 2011, opening in december 2012. Too optimistic? Probably, but december 2017 seems too pessimistic.
Here's a possible explanation for the Dec. 2017 date: if the contractors finish the tunnel on time or early (Dec. 2012?!?), would they be awarded a bonus?

Just a thought . . .

panda80

December 10th, 2008, 11:45 AM

^^ exactly, officially the main breakthrough is planend for the beginning of 2011 (until a few months ago, it was planned for late 2001). Opening is still planned for december 2017.

But remember that today the east TBM in Faido is boring 60 per week, instead of 120 m of the west TBM.

If all goes well...breakthrough april 2010, testing from mid 2010-mid 2011, opening in december 2012. Too optimistic? Probably, but december 2017 seems too pessimistic.

i think december 2012 is too optimistic because after last breakthrough there is still a lot of work to do(placing railway lines, safety systems).probably mid 2014-begining 2015 is a realistic date.

hans280

December 11th, 2008, 11:32 AM

Here's a possible explanation for the Dec. 2017 date: if the contractors finish the tunnel on time or early (Dec. 2012?!?), would they be awarded a bonus?

Just a thought . . .

I lived in Switzerland in my youth and, believe me, these guys usually pad their estimates. It's natural: the population HATE negative surprises, so constructors have an interest in coming up with very conservative estimates of construction costs and time. Several large infrastructure projects in recent years were finished ahead of time and under budgets - which in most other countries would sound like science fiction. :lol:

Incidentally, this principle applies to railway operations as well: SBB/CFF have one of the best timelyness records in the western world. They also have one of the lowest average speeds on their intercity trains. The two things are... not unrelated.

Coccodrillo

December 12th, 2008, 12:13 AM

i think december 2012 is too optimistic because after last breakthrough there is still a lot of work to do(placing railway lines, safety systems).probably mid 2014-begining 2015 is a realistic date.

Lötschebrg Base Tunnel: breakthrough april 2005, opening for freight trains june 2007, regular timetable december 2007.

Maybe hoping for the last breakthrough in april 2010 is too optimsitic. However there are only 6,2 km left between Faido and Sedrun, and about 3 between Amsteg and Erstfeld.

Coccodrillo

January 6th, 2009, 12:51 PM

Communiqué of 05.01.2009

Work is proceeding rapidly

After the Christmas/New Year break, work on all ATG construction sites has been resumed. At Bodio, Faido, Sedrun, Amsteg and Erstfeld driving is continuing.
As of January 1, 2009, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 124 km, or 80.8 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in December 2008 was 964 m.

antovador

January 6th, 2009, 11:10 PM

hans280

January 7th, 2009, 01:11 PM

As of January 1, 2009, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 124 km, or 80.8 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in December 2008 was 964 m.

Yeah, I have to agree with you Coccodrillo: The 964 m in December represented a relatively modest progress, but EVEN AT THIS PACE the remaining 29 km could be achieved in 2 1/2 years. We should probably brace ourselves for the finalisation of the raw tunnel some time in 2011? - But, like you say, that is not to say that the railway connection will be ready anytime soon thereafter. Judging by the LGVs of France they need at least another 3-4 years after the finalisation of the "travaux de genie" to lay the tracks, install signalling equipment, etc. etc. etc.

Coccodrillo

January 7th, 2009, 01:37 PM

1) The BBT will be 55 km long. I consider the BBT and the Inntal tunnel two separate tunnels, because the first is composed by two single track tubes, the second by a single double track tube.

2) In december only 964 m has been excavated because of holydays, usually dey bore 2 to 2,4 km per month. If all goes well, breakthrough could be in spring 2010, or in summer 2010. The opening in december 2012-december 2013.

Lötschebrg Base Tunnel: breakthrough april 2005, opening for freight trains june 2007, regular timetable december 2007.

hans280

January 7th, 2009, 08:49 PM

^^ Schon gut, but the comparison with Loetschberg can take us only so and so far: more than 70% of it is single track as far as I know. Wouldn't this (I'm not sure myself...), other things equal, make the mopping up operations after the actual drillings (or "Sprengvortrieb" in this case...) significantly faster?

PS: what do you have against Cisalpino? I myself am quite impressed with the new Pendolino.

Coccodrillo

January 8th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Track can be laid in both tubes simultaneously. Maybe they have to wait the end of boring phase, because the finished parts of the tunnel are used to remove the excavated rock with the narrow gauge service railway.

PS: what do you have against Cisalpino? I myself am quite impressed with the new Pendolino.

Cisalpino, SBB and Trenitalia wanted to put into service a new timetable projected to be used by 23 EMU trains. But there are only 9 EMU now: some trains are cancelled, some are late, because there are often no spare trains. If a Zurich-Milan train break down, as is often the case, the corresponding Milan-Zurich service is canceled, too, because there are not enough EMU.

This site reports the delays: http://cessoalpino.com/it/2009/live/ (the name sounds like "toilet-alpino" in Italian...). They also compare CIS trains with internal swiss intercitys on the same route (ICN Gotthard, trains 6xx and 10xxx).

The New Pendolino seems good, the problem is that SBB and Trenitalia wanted absolutely the new timetable, even if with only 9 trainsets instead of 23 it is impossible to operate correctly the service. In addition, these 9 sets are the first generation of Pendolino, and are quite unreliable and broke down often.

hans280

January 9th, 2009, 12:36 PM

This site reports the delays: http://cessoalpino.com/it/2009/live/ (the name sounds like "toilet-alpino" in Italian...). They also compare CIS trains with internal swiss intercitys on the same route (ICN Gotthard, trains 6xx and 10xxx).

I took a look at the site. There's no doubt that the Swiss intercity trains operate with much less delay in like circumstances. One question, however: how much of this is due to deficiencies in the rolling stock? As I read the evidence most of the Cisalpinos are delayed in departure rather than slowing down on mid-route. If so, this could be due to late arrival of the trains from Italy - a country that, without insulting our Italian friends - is... shall we say less known for punctuality than Switzerland. :)

Coccodrillo

January 9th, 2009, 01:17 PM

I think also that rolling stock is very stressed because it is always in service. I saw a train with some parts repaired with...scotch tape.

Sometimes a train should arrive in Milan at, say, 12.50 and return to Zürich at 13.10. But if the 12.50 train to Milan is late and there is not a spare trainset, also the 13.10 will be late, and so on.

Problems are caused by all factors: usual Italian delays, quite unreliable trains and lack of trainsets.

I remember an unluckily day in December, where both the 13.10 and 15.10 trains from Milan broke down. There were no working trains held in reserve, so all people boarded the 16.10 train - there were more than 600-650 people on a train with 400 seats (it was one of the remaining EuroCity, not a Cisalpino). I had a seat reserved on this train, but it was impossible to board the train, with people standing on steeps and toilets...I then opted for a car.

hans280

January 9th, 2009, 08:56 PM

Problems are caused by all factors: usual Italian delays, quite unreliable trains and lack of trainsets.

Mmmmwell, yes, the "usual Italian delays" as you put it.... There's not much to be done about those. If the Italian populace accepts them - up to the point where the Swiss might even be thought silly or childish for expecting timeliness - then I guess there's nothing to do other than to grin and bear it. An Italian poster on Inmondodeitreni a few months back had the following comment regarding AnsaldoBreda's failure yet to provide the intercity trains to the Danish DSB that were promised for 2004: "Li stanno consegnando. Ci lavora un mio amico che ora è in Danimarca per i collaudi. Però mi dice pure che 'sti danesi rompono il c...o pure se al posto di una brugola trovano una vite normale..."

Well... with neighbours such as these... :lol:

Coccodrillo

January 9th, 2009, 11:51 PM

I planned today to take the 19.10 Cisalpino, but when I saw on Trenitalia website that apparently it never leaved Florence, I decided to use regional trains stopping at all stations. Instead of one hour, my trip lasted two. But, at least, I finally reached my home (Lugano, 75 km from Milano). Passengers going to Zürich took the 20.10 Cisalpino, that is still running about 20 minutes late.

Apparently also the corresponding Zürich-Florence train broke down. And they had no spare trains.

On an Italian forum a Swiss railway employee said that is yet planned that tomorrow the 19.10 and other traisn will not run because the lack of trains. I will see.

joseph1951

January 10th, 2009, 07:09 AM

Track can be laid in both tubes simultaneously. Maybe they have to wait the end of boring phase, because the finished parts of the tunnel are used to remove the excavated rock with the narrow gauge service railway.

Cisalpino, SBB and Trenitalia wanted ...This site reports the delays: http://cessoalpino.com/it/2009/live/ (the name sounds like "toilet-alpino" in Italian...). often.

Not quite so : cesso has very vulgar, and rude connotations
more likely : dive, shithole; (riferito a cosa) load of shit;
or even cesspit
Therefore the name cesso-alpino is not very nice.

The title of web site quoted suggests a polemic or bias attitude towards the cisalpino.

Tilting trains are more complex, hence more delicate, than conventional trains.

There could be a number of reasons for delays or break downs, which might not be necessarily ascribable to bad technical planning or construction.

All types of trains (including ICEs), as well as all types of mechanical and "biological" machines, have their strong and weak points.......

regards,

Coccodrillo

January 10th, 2009, 02:46 PM

I assure you that "Cessoalpino" is the less vulgar nickname used by passengers or train drivers to define ETR 470 trains.

Coccodrillo

January 10th, 2009, 11:53 PM

Apparently, 6 out of 9 trainsets are broken, so 8 out of 16 Milano-Zürich trains have been canceled today...only 50% of trains reched Zürich or Milan...

joseph1951

January 11th, 2009, 08:44 PM

I assure you that "Cessoalpino" is the less vulgar nickname used by passengers or train drivers to define ETR 470 trains.

I have no doubt about it!

gramercy

January 11th, 2009, 11:11 PM

its a shame they cancelled the Porta Alpina
the swiss are so damn careful with their money :)

joseph1951

January 14th, 2009, 11:46 PM

Mmmmwell, yes, the "usual Italian delays" as you put it.... There's not much to be done about those. If the Italian populace accepts them - up to the point where the Swiss might even be thought silly or childish for expecting timeliness - then I guess there's nothing to do other than to grin and bear it. An Italian poster on Inmondodeitreni a few months back had the following comment regarding AnsaldoBreda's failure yet to provide the intercity trains to the Danish DSB that were promised for 2004: "Li stanno consegnando. Ci lavora un mio amico che ora è in Danimarca per i collaudi. Però mi dice pure che 'sti danesi rompono il c...o pure se al posto di una brugola trovano una vite normale..."

Well... with neighbours such as these... :lol:

Well... with neighbours such as these...

One does not need enemies.

earthJoker

January 15th, 2009, 09:04 AM

"Li stanno consegnando. Ci lavora un mio amico che ora è in Danimarca per i collaudi. Però mi dice pure che 'sti danesi rompono il c...o pure se al posto di una brugola trovano una vite normale..."

What does that mean? I don't speak Italian

Coccodrillo

January 17th, 2009, 12:01 AM

"They are delivering them. A friend of mine works on this trains, and he is now in Danemark for trials. But he says that Danish protest even if they found a hex key ("brugola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_key)") instead of a standard screw ("vite")."

hans280

January 17th, 2009, 08:27 AM

^^ I'm hardly an expert on Italian, coccodrillo, but I think you translated brugola out of context. Yes, it can mean hex key, but I think here it is shorthand for "vite a brugola" - i.e. a bolt. The poster means to say that one cannot even substute a bolt for a screw without the Danes complaining. That said...

...I didn't mean to go bellyaching about the feud between my native Denmark and AnsaldoBreda. Countries differ. I just meant to imply that if Italian railway enthousiasts find it bizarre that DSB does some pretty tight project management once a delivery is four years overdue then they might also.... shall we say, be less devoted to punctuality than their Swiss neighbours.

Momo1435

January 17th, 2009, 09:47 PM

It can't be a coincidence that recently more and more Italian local railway companies are buying their new trains from Stadler Rail in Switzerland.

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 03:38 AM

It can't be a coincidence that recently more and more Italian local railway companies are buying their new trains from Stadler Rail in Switzerland.

absolutely everybody is buying from Stadler: Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Finnland, Argentina, probably more

either they are very good at corrupting politicians or they make a kick-ass mid-distance commuter train that is fast, light, innovative and regional :banana:

Deadeye Reloaded

January 18th, 2009, 04:36 AM

It will be interested in the future which criterias use to measure a tunnel because tunnels become more and more complex than a tube. The brenner basis tunnel with the main entrance will be 55 km but with the Innsbruck bypass it will be 62.7 km, more than the 57 km GBT.

The Swiss wouldn´t build such an enormous project without a "Plan B" to secure the number one position of the GBT. :D
There is an option to connect the GBT with the planned new Axentunnel in the north ("Bergvariante lang") . The required infrastructure in the GBT for the connection is approved and will be build or is already completed. :yes:

In German:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axentunnel

This would mean a total length of 75km.:rock:

So, in this dick/tunnel-measuring-contest Switzerland can´t be beaten by Austria/Italy with their BBT even in the extended version. Nice try anyway. :cheers1:

hans280

January 18th, 2009, 06:30 AM

^^ Well, Deadeye, I have also heard of this northern extension of the Gotthardt tunnel. In fact I think (?) it might even push the total length of the tunnel above 80 km.

Whether it's something to be proud of for the Swiss is perhaps less certain. You see, there's no topographic reason to drill these extra 20 km of tunnel. It was decided because of a messy political process involving a gaggle of NIMBIES from Kanton Uri who thought that the landscape around Erstfeld couldn't possibly be scarred by a HS railway line. The matter got emotional - this valley (the "Urnertal") after all being the heartland of Wilhelm Thell - and the local populists plastered the country with posters showing their emblematic bull (the "Urnerstier") being cut in two and bleeding from the mouth. In the end the government caved in and agreed to create an expensive gallery tunnel with no other practical purpose than to save the local peasants the ignomy of the noise. :ohno:

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 06:47 AM

The Swiss wouldn´t build such an enormous project without a "Plan B" to secure the number one position of the GBT. :D
There is an option to connect the GBT with the planned new Axentunnel in the north ("Bergvariante lang") . The required infrastructure in the GBT for the connection is approved and will be build or is already completed. :yes:

In German:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axentunnel

This would mean a total length of 75km.:rock:

So, in this dick/tunnel-measuring-contest Switzerland can´t be beaten by Austria/Italy with their BBT even in the extended version. Nice try anyway. :cheers1:

actually, it is possible that they will also lengthen it at the other end so the tunnel would come out at biasca instead of bodio

then there is the proposed tunnel around bellinzona, after which it would emerge south of bellinzona heading straight for the ceneri tunnel

not to mention the zimmerberg tunnel near zürich....... :cheers:

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 06:50 AM

hans280

January 18th, 2009, 07:05 AM

Coccodrillo

January 18th, 2009, 12:13 PM

actually, it is possible that they will also lengthen it at the other end so the tunnel would come out at biasca instead of bodio

No, there are no cavers at the southern end, building a branch would need to close the tunnel for years and to destroy hundreds of emters of finished tunnel.

And it has already been built an 8 km line south of the GBT on the floor of the valley.

The planned Axentunnel would sho0rten travel times and allow more regional trains on the old line. But it is not urgent as, for example, the Wisenberg tunnel on the line to Basel, useful to reduce "overcrowding" on the existing line (400 trains/day today, 500 in the near future).

hans280

January 18th, 2009, 12:59 PM

^^ I would agree with you that one of the highest priorities on the north/south axis should now be the Wisenberg Tunnel, but i would add to the list Zimmerberg 2. The latter had even been decided upon, then dropped, and Wisenberg was hotly considered for the second stage of the Bahn 2000 infrastructure programme, then also dropped. Why? No, don't tell me.... If during the economic crisis Switzerland needs to increase its export, maybe you could simply export Christoph Blocher to some inhospitable place? :wink2:

On your point about the Axentunnel, I didn't say that it will not increase travel speeds. Of course it will. My point was that you could achieve the same speeds through a conventional HSL between Erstfeld and Arth-Goldau. Such lines have been drawn in similarly mountainous regions in Spain, but... apparently this is not an option "im Urnertal". :ohno:

earthJoker

January 18th, 2009, 02:55 PM

You can only have conventional line from Erstfeld to Flüelen and from Brunnen to Arth-Goldau. The topography between Flüelen and Brunnen only allow HSR in tunnels.

Coccodrillo

January 18th, 2009, 02:55 PM

I would like to export C.B., but unfortunately I can't.

The Axen tunnel is a tunnel between Brunnen and Flüelen, not in the Uri valley. Uri's inhabitants propose to link the Axen and Gotthard Basis tunnels via another tunnel instead of building a line in the plain. Is this combination of Axen+Connection+GBT tunnels that would be 80 km long.

There are some maps here: http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/it/attachments/10634/21323/6776/2_s1_d2.pdf (in German), but the chosen option is not shown.

And Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axentunnel (use the bar at the end of page to see other tunnels of the line).

hans280

January 18th, 2009, 03:15 PM

^^Oh du Frust, ich habe meine Schweizergeographie verlernt! :ohno: (Transl.: "Bloody hell, I've forgotten what I used to know about Swiss geography".) My previous posting contained no less than two minimacs, in that I thought the Urnertal valley runs all the way down to Brunnen & I confused the Axen Tunnel and the "Bergvariante Lang" that the locals have so pleaded for. Damn!

As a consolation offer, take a look at what I found. A much more detailed version of the map in the document you linked:
http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/de/attachments/1818/4034/1399/Linienfuehrung.pdf.

And a question: does this imply that the tunnelers are currently going through a lot of trouble preparing the northern tunnel for an extension WITHOUT anybody knowing for sure whether this extension will be built? Du meine Güte... and this was the reason they held back the beginning of works on the Erstfeld section for more than a year. :nuts:

Coccodrillo

January 18th, 2009, 04:06 PM

The cavern for the junction (Abzweiger Uri Süd in the map) near the nothern portal will be built also to manage protests in the Uri valley.

Anyway, the the Erstfeld section will be completed probably before the FaidoSedrun one, where boring is progressing slowly. Such caverns have been or will be built also in the Lötschberg, Zimmerberg and Ceneri base tunnels.

Alargule

January 18th, 2009, 04:08 PM

So, in this dick/tunnel-measuring-contest...

Baubeginn für den neuen Axentunnel wird nicht vor dem Jahr 2030 sein.

All dicks being measured in this contest will be old and limp (but used in the right way? probably not) by that time...:D

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 04:44 PM

^^ Gramercy, nothing will ever bring me to like people who put their personal grubby interests over the good of society - Swiss or otherwise. This is probably why I, a consummate Scandinavian Protestant, would not want to be citizen of a federal country. That said, I lived in CH for a few years in my youth and I quite liked the place - perhaps because I stayed in Basle surrounded by people who had a much poorer opinion of "die verkrusteten Innerschweizer" than I did. :lol:

there is a balance to everything, and what you may percieve to be self interest over the interest of the society may actually serve the greater good

i certainly wouldnt want to live in a country which can demolish km2s after km2s just to make way for another factory...or in a country where if you hould a village meeting 2 ppl show up (the burgermeister and the priest, perhaps)

like it or not, swiss citizens are a hell of a lot more _conscientious_ of what is actually happening around them, much more so than (imho) _any_ other populus. the reason is perhaps their direct democracy and all the elections that they hold

i find this system more competitive, more efficient and eventually more _humane_ than other systems, because it _forces_ cooperation in a democratic arena instead of sheer power or money forcing its way

best example of the latter would be the uk where they have 15 or so billion pounds to build a gigantic railroad tunnel under london but they havent been able to put together a decent high speed line from london to manchaster, let alone glasgow
or the new third runway at heathrow: labour is licking the feet of big business and to hell with local communities. not to mention the fact that they would be much better served as a country if they had an airport similar in size somewhere between birmingham and manchaster, they could easily add a second runway to stanstead as well

More to the point, I think your previous posting about additional tunnels was a bit imprecise. I haven't seen plans of a prolongation to Biasca - on the contrary the're investing a lot of money in a conventional track down that way. However, you're right that the long-term idea is to eventually create a tunnel from somewhere south of Biasca to Camorino. To this you may add one more tunnel on the northern side: the Rigitunnel. As the name says it's supposed to lead the train underneath Mount Rigi, i.e. bypassing Arth-Goldau to the south. But... this is a VERY long-term prospect.

yes, it appears i was wrong about a bodio-biasca section, but the rest would still be very impressive (6 more possible tunnels from basle to lugano..)

and of course its a long term plan, those nimbies are hanging on to their money, the b@stards :nuts:

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 04:49 PM

If during the economic crisis Switzerland needs to increase its export, maybe you could simply export Christoph Blocher to some inhospitable place? :wink2:

perhaps to the land where the black sheep live :cheer:

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 04:50 PM

so, any one of you guys/gals ever heard of Swissmetro?

Coccodrillo

January 18th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Beatiful, but extremely expensive, dream.

gramercy

January 18th, 2009, 06:01 PM

Beatiful, but extremely expensive, dream.

to be honest, im not convinced of that anymore

principally because the new japanes maglev will have 60 % of it in tunnels

if swissmetro were to initially only cover switzerland, a single tunnel would be enough, not to mention the smaller diameter required for the swissmetro type of maglev as opposed to the japanese maglev. smaller diameter and a single tube vs. double / two tubes means a whopping 60-70 % less volume excavated, therefore much lower costs
(another way of looking at it: for 50 kms of traditional two tubes + connecting tubes you can build 120-150 kms of swissmetro tunnels..)

now add to that the partial vacuum which at 500 kph would use 1/3rd or less the power needed for the japanese version, which makes the operation much more profitable

and as i look at it, speed could probably easily be upped to 6-7-800 kph, depending only on the breaking distances and the power vs. profitabilty

but i realize theres not much chance of it ever happening :rant:

Coccodrillo

January 18th, 2009, 07:06 PM

There is a double track line, Basel-Olten, with 500 trains per day (suburban, intercity, freight), but no money to build a second line to decrease congestion. This line include a ~10 km tunnel, the Wisenberg. And if there is no money for 10 km of tunnel, there is surely less for an entirely undergorund 300 km line.

hans280

January 18th, 2009, 08:40 PM

^^ Erm... now you've lost me, but then I'm still smarting from my last geographic mistakes. I thought so faithfully that the "Long Version" had been retained after public hearings, according to which the northern starting point of the tunnel would be just outside Liestal. If so, the tunnel would be anywhere from 17 to 20 km long, I think - yet you said the Wisenbergtunnel will be only about 10 km. Have I missed something?

Coccodrillo

January 19th, 2009, 04:03 PM

I don't know any project of the Wisenberg tunnel. The existing Hauenstein Base Tunnel is about 8 km long, so I thought that the Wisenberg had a similar length.

Do you know documents or maps about the proposed variants of the Wisenberg tunnel?

hans280

January 19th, 2009, 09:13 PM

joseph1951

January 21st, 2009, 04:01 AM

^^ I'm hardly an expert on Italian, coccodrillo, but I think you translated brugola out of context. Yes, it can mean hex key, but I think here it is shorthand for "vite a brugola" - i.e. a bolt. The poster means to say that one cannot even substute a bolt for a screw without the Danes complaining. That said....

The poster means to say that one cannot even substute a bolt for an (allen) screw without the Danes complaining. That said..

Dear Hans,

How diplomatic and polite was your rendering of " rompere il c...o" with "complaining".

A very cute and clever use of the translator's licence.

I did enjoy it!
Cheers!.

joseph1951

January 21st, 2009, 04:25 AM

so, any one of you guys/gals ever heard of Swissmetro?

Yes, of course.
The first project planned for a top speed of 800km/h, or the second one with a top speed of 500 km/h?

Pity they were both rejected!

I vaguely supect that one of the factors which are preventing the construction of maglev lines is the ostracism of the French who, for many years, have maintaned that the train can, not only compete with maglev, but it is also a more mature technology.

The French have always maintained that the traditional train can reach similar speeds, and still can be used on conventional rail routes, while the maglev cannot be used on conventional lines.
So, according to them, the conventional train can offer perfomances similar to that of the maglev but, the former is also not only compatible with the existing rail network but also cheaper and tested.

The same can be said for trains/rails with linear motors...

I suspect that, among many many reasons behind the V150 project, there was not only the intent to push the boundary of the current rail technology, but also to delay the constructions of dedicated maglev lines. (574,8km/h by rail vs 581km/h by Japanese maglev)

On the other hand, the Chinese, have bought the transrapid technology together with the konw-how. So, the question is still open.

In future we might well buy Chinese maglevs.
Who knows?

Tri-ring

January 21st, 2009, 05:32 AM

Yes, of course.
The first project planned for a top speed of 800km/h, or the second one with a top speed of 500 km/h?

Pity they were both rejected!

I vaguely supect that one of the factors which are preventing the construction of maglev lines is the ostracism of the French who, for many years, have maintaned that the train can, not only compete with maglev, but it is also a more mature technology.

The French have always maintained that the traditional train can reach similar speeds, and still can be used on conventional rail routes, while the maglev cannot be used on conventional lines.
So, according to them, the conventional train can offer perfomances similar to that of the maglev but, the former is not also compatible with the existing rail network but cheaper and tested.

The same can be said for trains/rails with linear motors...

I suspect that, among many many reasons behind the V150 project, there was not only the intent to push the boundary of the current rail technology, but also to delay the constructions of dedicated maglev lines. (574,8km/h by rail vs 581km/h by Japanese maglev)

On the other hand, the Chinese, have bought the transrapid technology together with the konw-how. So, the question is still open.
In future we might well buy Chinese maglevs.
Who knows?

It's basically a live or die situation for the French to maintain conventional rail since the French(Alstrom) does not have the technology at hand and will take them decades to develop so if a project that utilizes Maglev comes to realization within the next ten~fifteen years they can't even enter the tender process.

joseph1951

January 21st, 2009, 07:24 PM

It's basically a live or die situation for the French to maintain conventional rail since the French(Alstrom) does not have the technology at hand and will take them decades to develop so if a project that utilizes Maglev comes to realization within the next ten~fifteen years they can't even enter the tender process.

Yes, I agree. Their strongest point is the TGV family , and I suspect that the AGV will be far more impressive than expected. Probably, in terms of acceleration, record speeds, energy consumption, it will offer better performances than the ICE Velaro.

Perhaps, the second and third AGV generations might have top speeds of 380km/h.

Also, Alstom might manage to built double decker and and tilting versions.

But, above commercial speeds of 400km/h, and for transcontinental fast land journey, for goods and passengers, sooner or later, maglev will take over.

The problem is that the Japanese maglev and conventional (Japanese) HS trains are ostracised in Europe because the Japanese have not open the market to the European competitors.

On the other hand, China has managed to acquire all Western and Eastern railway and maglev (Siemens) technologies, and sooner or later, the Chinese will be able to export both type of trains.... which if not greatly improved, they certainly will be cheaper.

We shall see.

regards

hans280

January 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM

Yes, I agree. Their strongest point is the TGV family, and I suspect that the AGV will be far more impressive than expected. Probably, in terms of acceleration, record speeds, energy consumption, it will offer better performances than the ICE Velaro.

Yes, I would agree. In fact I think it's almost a foregone conclusion: the AGV (or TGV Nouvelle Generation, as it was originally named) was developed specifically to face the competition from Siemens' Velaro. I don't think Alstom would have moved from prototype to commercialisation unless they were reliably assured that their product would be superior on a number of these parameters.

bluemeansgo

January 21st, 2009, 09:30 PM

Yes, of course.
The first project planned for a top speed of 800km/h, or the second one with a top speed of 500 km/h?

Pity they were both rejected!

I vaguely supect that one of the factors which are preventing the construction of maglev lines is the ostracism of the French who, for many years, have maintaned that the train can, not only compete with maglev, but it is also a more mature technology.

The French have always maintained that the traditional train can reach similar speeds, and still can be used on conventional rail routes, while the maglev cannot be used on conventional lines.
So, according to them, the conventional train can offer perfomances similar to that of the maglev but, the former is not also compatible with the existing rail network but cheaper and tested.

The same can be said for trains/rails with linear motors...

I suspect that, among many many reasons behind the V150 project, there was not only the intent to push the boundary of the current rail technology, but also to delay the constructions of dedicated maglev lines. (574,8km/h by rail vs 581km/h by Japanese maglev)

On the other hand, the Chinese, have bought the transrapid technology together with the konw-how. So, the question is still open.
In future we might well buy Chinese maglevs.
Who knows?

To reach that speed (571km/h) they had to have a 140km stretch of straight track that had a downhill section. This is as opposed to the Yamanashi Test line:
http://www.rtri.or.jp/rd/maglev/gif/I_E_yamanashi_routemap.gif

Chock full of tunnels and hills and only 42km long. A short portion of that needed to accelerate to full speed.

Mag-lev will be able to easily maintain a cruising speed of 500km/h. Yes, rail CAN go that fast, but it's pushing it.

gramercy

January 21st, 2009, 11:04 PM

Yes, I agree. Their strongest point is the TGV family , and I suspect that the AGV will be far more impressive than expected. Probably, in terms of acceleration, record speeds, energy consumption, it will offer better performances than the ICE Velaro.

the Velaro came out in 2000, the AGV will be at least 10 years younger....and naturally better in some ways (even thought it is french :nuts: )

what worries me is that siemens doesnt seem to be doing much

by this time they should have either a tilting version, or a double decker, or a faster version or a new version with significant improvements :ohno:

Tri-ring

January 22nd, 2009, 12:39 AM

The problem is that the Japanese maglev and conventional (Japanese) HS trains are ostracised in Europe because the Japanese have not open the market to the European competitors.

This is completely bull.
If the European wanted they can make tender for any of the routes but they know they can't win because of the strict requirements JR imposes.
ICE will not be able to clear noise pollution requirements.(Tunnel booming)
TGV will not be able to clear acceleration requirements
AGV will not be able to clear passanger capacity requirements

The European competitors knows this so haven't bother competeing here in the Japaense market but using it as an excuse to close European markets.

Dinivan

January 22nd, 2009, 12:53 AM

^^ it's the first time I hear the European market is closed, any proof to check veracity? news, or whatever... I think the european trains are better suited to european needs and that's it (and thank god for that, cos japanese trains are so much fugly...)

gramercy

January 22nd, 2009, 02:29 AM

Tri-ring

January 22nd, 2009, 02:31 AM

FYI Hitachi high-speed trains now run in the UK.

Yes I know but that is because the British does not have a HSR industry in the first place and they were turned down the first time because the European mainland placed concerns of the train sets traveling on mainland soil.

gramercy

January 22nd, 2009, 03:06 PM

Yes I know but that is because the British does not have a HSR industry in the first place and they were turned down the first time because the European mainland placed concerns of the train sets traveling on mainland soil.

well, whats it matter?
in 10 years time everyone will be supplied by.......china

honwai1983

January 22nd, 2009, 07:17 PM

well, whats it matter?
in 10 years time everyone will be supplied by.......china

It may be.

As mainland China is still R&D and importing other technologies from other countries~~

gramercy

January 22nd, 2009, 07:23 PM

It may be.

As mainland China is still R&D and importing other technologies from other countries~~

yeah

meanwhile the total order of high-speed trains for the entire european continent is below 500* units.....and thats for the next 5-7 years
thats less than 100 units / year....for the entire continent

we should _already_ have a paris-istanbul 360kph line, we should already have a berlin-paris 360kph line, but what do we have: the germans and the austrians are so stingy they only build 250kph and only very short sections, the rest will remain 160kph
and eastern europe (hungary especially :( ) is a JOKE

*: hmm, according to http://www.railfaneurope.net/ there are only 160 trainsets currently ordered in the whole of europe (turkey and russia included) that can go 250kph or above
160!!! thats pathetic

Momo1435

January 22nd, 2009, 09:03 PM

So, any news on the Gotthard Tunnel.

bluemeansgo

January 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM

This is completely bull.
If the European wanted they can make tender for any of the routes but they know they can't win because of the strict requirements JR imposes.
ICE will not be able to clear noise pollution requirements.(Tunnel booming)
TGV will not be able to clear acceleration requirements
AGV will not be able to clear passanger capacity requirements

The European competitors knows this so haven't bother competing here in the Japanese market but using it as an excuse to close European markets.

While you may be "technically" correct, if you are Japanese, you must understand that a non-Japanese High Speed train in Japan is extremely unlikely.

Those strict requirements are a result of continuous improvement in those areas and while Japan DOES have high standards, the truth, the "本音" is that it just wouldn't be allowed. The Japanese economy is very protectionist. This is not entirely a bad thing, but honestly, now... you know it will likely never be "allowed" to happen. Even if a train MET those requirements, it's likely a reason would be found to make it not worth the effort.

Japan likes to use homegrown technology and in some fields, "unofficially" closes the door.

If you ride an N700 shinkansen, you will see a sign on the door. It says something like: "If you...[open door/push alarm/something else], you will be inquired by attendants"

I'm not sure about the first part, but the second part is verbatim.

While this is understandable English, it's awkward and obviously not written by an English native speaker. Why? Why, in a progressive nation didn't the National Railway, on the railway's flagship train, not hire a native English translator to write this warning messages in English? Why? Because a Japanese person who has learned English is preferable.

If you walk around Ninjo-jo(the shogun's old house) in Kyoto, a World Heritage site, a national treasure, a popular tourist spot... there is a sign which says: "No parking for emehgency vehicle".[sic] A missing comma/word completely change the meaning to the opposite of what's intended. (Spelling mistake intentional, twas how it was written). This is a world heritage site, you'd think the government of Japan would hire an native English speaker. There's a lot of them in Japan.

These two examples aren't entirely related to the topic, but they demonstrate that, in general, Japan prefers to use Japanese people, Japanese technology, Japanese food products. It's just the way it is. Again, not entirely a bad thing, but to say that the main reason Europeans don't try to compete in Japan is because the standards of Japan are too high is not telling the whole story.

I'm sure the European train systems could at least compete on price, though with the easy access to loans from Japanese banks at almost no interest, I think even then, Japanese systems would win out.

Just to reiterate, I'm not saying that Euro trains currently meet "Japanese" standards, I'm just saying that it's not the whole story, and really only plays a minor role in the big picture... and if you're honest with yourself, you'll see that too. If not, perhaps you need to look at Japan from a non-Japanese point of view.

Tri-ring

January 23rd, 2009, 01:11 AM

While you may be "technically" correct, if you are Japanese, you must understand that a non-Japanese High Speed train in Japan is extremely unlikely.

Those strict requirements are a result of continuous improvement in those areas and while Japan DOES have high standards, the truth, the "本音" is that it just wouldn't be allowed. The Japanese economy is very protectionist. This is not entirely a bad thing, but honestly, now... you know it will likely never be "allowed" to happen. Even if a train MET those requirements, it's likely a reason would be found to make it not worth the effort.

Japan likes to use homegrown technology and in some fields, "unofficially" closes the door.

If you ride an N700 shinkansen, you will see a sign on the door. It says something like: "If you...[open door/push alarm/something else], you will be inquired by attendants"

I'm not sure about the first part, but the second part is verbatim.

While this is understandable English, it's awkward and obviously not written by an English native speaker. Why? Why, in a progressive nation didn't the National Railway, on the railway's flagship train, not hire a native English translator to write this warning messages in English? Why? Because a Japanese person who has learned English is preferable.

If you walk around Ninjo-jo(the shogun's old house) in Kyoto, a World Heritage site, a national treasure, a popular tourist spot... there is a sign which says: "No parking for emehgency vehicle".[sic] A missing comma/word completely change the meaning to the opposite of what's intended. (Spelling mistake intentional, twas how it was written). This is a world heritage site, you'd think the government of Japan would hire an native English speaker. There's a lot of them in Japan.

These two examples aren't entirely related to the topic, but they demonstrate that, in general, Japan prefers to use Japanese people, Japanese technology, Japanese food products. It's just the way it is. Again, not entirely a bad thing, but to say that the main reason Europeans don't try to compete in Japan is because the standards of Japan are too high is not telling the whole story.

I'm sure the European train systems could at least compete on price, though with the easy access to loans from Japanese banks at almost no interest, I think even then, Japanese systems would win out.

Just to reiterate, I'm not saying that Euro trains currently meet "Japanese" standards, I'm just saying that it's not the whole story, and really only plays a minor role in the big picture... and if you're honest with yourself, you'll see that too. If not, perhaps you need to look at Japan from a non-Japanese point of view.

Oh boy, just two signboards as proof that the whole Japanese society is protectionist.:ohno:
The first one your not even sure if it was the exact wording and the second one is probably 20~30 years old.
Look, foreign companies would probably meet some resistance but if their product including after service were superior than the Japanese then they will have no problem in winning.
If they didn't they can take it to court.
That is how it works but you insist that Japan would not consider even if they provide overall superior product/service.
Companies like IBM, Boeing & Airbus are doing phenomenal success in both the public and private sector.
Both Seimens and Alstrom have an office here in Japan for more than 50 years and they both have good relationship with governmental entities.
Don't give me that bull that Japan is protectionist.
It's their products that failed the test not the system.

gramercy

January 23rd, 2009, 02:01 AM

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2009/1/17/15715/3557

bluemeansgo

January 23rd, 2009, 03:08 AM

Oh boy, just two signboards as proof that the whole Japanese society is protectionist.:ohno:
The first one your not even sure if it was the exact wording and the second one is probably 20~30 years old.

Perhaps, those were bad examples, but I think perhaps you missed the point. These signs exist partially because of the way business works in Japan. They don't necessarily point to protectionism. They are merely an example which anyone can understand.

You must know this if you live in Japan, especially if you work in Japan. Actually, do you live/work in Japan?

Look, foreign companies would probably meet some resistance but if their product including after service were superior than the Japanese then they will have no problem in winning.

Depends who sets the criteria as to what exactly "Superior" means.

As I'm sure you know Japanese business (along with other Asian nations) work differently than Euro businesses. In Japan, business relationships are made and kept through trust, and not always the better/cheaper product. Through working together and hard work, they often make great products. Japan doesn't have a lot of innovations, it has a lot of improvements. Take a product and use Japan's cultural strengths (harmony in the workforce, putting the group over the individual, a thirst for absolute perfection) to improve the product.

If they didn't they can take it to court.
That is how it works but you insist that Japan would not consider even if they provide overall superior product/service.

I'm not insisting, I'm merely stating that things are different in Japan. By court, I assume you mean "Japanese court"?

Companies like IBM, Boeing & Airbus are doing phenomenal success in both the public and private sector.

Companies in which there is no direct Japanese competition.

Both Seimens and Alstrom have an office here in Japan for more than 50 years and they both have good relationship with governmental entities.
Don't give me that bull that Japan is protectionist.
It's their products that failed the test not the system.

Who writes the criteria for the test?

Let's be honest here. If China built a train system that was superior in every way to the Japanese system, do you honestly think that China would be able to sell it to Japan? Can you honestly, with a straight face say that you can see it happening?

Even if it exceeds ALL the criteria, there will be someone who stands up and says, well, it's a great system, but it just doesn't suit the Japanese criteria of (add new criteria here).

As I said before, being a protectionist country isn't necessarily a bad thing. It keeps Japanese companies busy and they are able to create niches for products that suit Japanese sensibilities.

Trust me on this one. I love Japan, but I see it from a slightly different perspective.

It's a very common feeling among many Japanese that Japan is unique, and has unique circumstances and so those needs can only be met by Japanese people/companies. Not all feel this way, but in general it's pervasive enough to affect business practices.

Tri-ring

January 23rd, 2009, 03:41 AM

@bluemeansgo

I live and work here in Japan working with various foreign company. I know what happens.
In terms of overall service.
It's as the article gramercy supplied, if the companies are not ready to invest developing repair shops on site, with trained maintanace personnel that can speak fluent Japanese and answer to any questions that JR may have, ready to use parts for back up so it does not sit in shop for two weeks and still be economically cheaper then the Japanese counterparts then yes they will win.
Hitachi, when they did the bidding for the Javelin they met those criteria as well as for it's high product performance.
I don't see Seimens or Alstrom make those kind of commitment here in Japan and they sure do not meet product criteria JR imposes.
It's not just price, it not just product performance it's overall service that really comes to play.
Even if there is a product that meets all of JR's requirements that is cheaper it still will not be selected if takes two weeks to fix the damn thing when it breaks down since it will cost JR more in loss of revenue.

By the way IBM has fierce competition with Japanese Hi-tech companies like Fujitsu, NEC, and/or Hitachi.
Boeing and Airbus has cometition for parts and alot of the Japanese companies acts as sub-contractors for those companies.
Alstrom and Semiens I believe supplies part for electrical generators with again competition like Toshiba, Fuji Heavy Industry, Hitachi, Kawasaki and so on.
So please don't try to patronize me on how open or closed this market is.

bluemeansgo

January 23rd, 2009, 05:06 AM

I don't mean to patronize you, Tri-ring. I apologize if you feel that way.

I still don't think even you believe that, for example, a Chinese train manufacturer would have a chance in Japan. It just wouldn't happen. You and I both know that. If you asked 100 of your co-workers if they think China would ever make a train system in Japan, I guarantee 99% would feel the same way.

There would simply be too many barriers erected to make it not worth their while.

As a general rule, Japan is more closed than "most" countries. ALL countries have a degree of protectionism. Japan is "more" protectionist than most. I don't know why you care so much, to tell you the truth. I personally don't think it's a bad thing... globalization is not an entirely positive thing.

Tri-ring

January 23rd, 2009, 06:43 AM

As a general rule, Japan is more closed than "most" countries. ALL countries have a degree of protectionism. Japan is "more" protectionist than most. I don't know why you care so much, to tell you the truth. I personally don't think it's a bad thing... globalization is not an entirely positive thing.

You're falling for the same empty cries that most foreign companies make when they were not able to penetrate the Japanese market.

1; Criteria of any product is set by the customer not by the market. Just because a product sells well in the domestic market does not mean it will be an instant success in Japan.

2; After service must be at same level as the Japanese counterparts.

3; Price is not the only decisive factor. A balance of product, after service and price will always be measured.

4; Empty promises brings nothing. Statements like we will produce a service shop IF you purchase doesn't fly. Customers are expecting to see a service shop before buying not the otherway around.

Nokia just moved out of the Japanese mobile phone market. They thought they will become No.1 but was proven wrong because they did not meet 1.
On the otherhand Dyson was able to gain some market share because they got 3 right.
Alot of companies are not able to comply to 4 and fail.

Japan is an exporting nation and a image of protectionism is life threatening to the export industry since the door swings both ways. Japan complies to all WTO regulations and rules and takes it very seriously.

It does not matter if it is Chinese, French or German as long as it satisfy the customers they are all welcome BUT do not expect any special treatment. It's a dog eat dog competition here and only companies that are will to make a long term commitment will be able to enter.

pietje01

January 23rd, 2009, 11:01 AM

On topic please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Start a thread elsewhere to discuss the japanese market.
This topic is about the Gotthard Base Tunnel.

bluemeansgo

January 23rd, 2009, 08:46 PM

It does not matter if it is Chinese, French or German as long as it satisfy the customers they are all welcome BUT do not expect any special treatment. It's a dog eat dog competition here and only companies that are will to make a long term commitment will be able to enter.

If you say so. I guess we all have our own opinions. :)

Back to the Gotthard base tunnel, One thing I haven't seen, is any 3d fly-through. There was a great one I saw of a new proposed tunnel in Seattle, WA.

joseph1951

January 24th, 2009, 02:23 AM

Yes, I would agree. In fact I think it's almost a foregone conclusion: the AGV (or TGV Nouvelle Generation, as it was originally named) was developed specifically to face the competition from Siemens' Velaro. I don't think Alstom would have moved from prototype to commercialisation unless they were reliably assured that their product would be superior on a number of these parameters.

I totally agree.

Coccodrillo

January 24th, 2009, 10:38 AM

^^Well, SBB was asked to evaluate several lines, as can seen from this link (I trust it you read German?): http://www.baselland.ch/mit-bud_2003-01-20-htm.300441.0.html. As for the rest, there was media reports a few years back that the authorities had come down in favour of the "Lang Niveau" version, but thereafter the tunnel fell out of, first, Bahn2000 and the ZEB, so I suppose the issue just died. :ohno:

I don't speak German but I can sometimes understand it.

I came back home yesterday, so I haven't read your message until now. :)

On topic please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Start a thread elsewhere to discuss the japanese market.
This topic is about the Gotthard Base Tunnel.

Can someone split this topic?

joseph1951

January 25th, 2009, 09:06 PM

This is completely bull.
If the European wanted they can make tender for any of the routes but they know they can't win because of the strict requirements JR imposes.
...........The European competitors knows this so haven't bother competeing here in the Japaense market but using it as an excuse to close European markets.

When I was working professonally I dealt also with Japanese businessmen. Woderufl people, who valued the "word of honour" , quality, .. reliability, etc. The price was a secondary factor. However, in my previous post, I quoted an official UE complaint/allegation. For too long the Japanese market was a tad to close up to the global competitors. These attitude is changing. Incidentally, a certain dregree of protectionism is practised in every Country, and it is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes is a good thing. And with this i close the discussion. We are completely OT.
The topic is about "The Gottard Base Tunnel...World Longest Rail Tunnel (57 kms)"

Kind regards,

Coccodrillo

February 1st, 2009, 02:26 PM

joseph1951

February 1st, 2009, 03:27 PM

the Velaro came out in 2000, the AGV will be at least 10 years younger....and naturally better in some ways (even thought it is french :nuts: )

what worries me is that siemens doesnt seem to be doing much

by this time they should have either a tilting version, or a double decker, or a faster version or a new version with significant improvements :ohno:

The new AGV will be the first serie of a nouvelle generation. Then, probably, we will have a 2nd generation of AGVs with more powerful motors, then we might have AGVs of 3rd generation, with tilting capability, and also double decker versions.

Although, at the moment, the critical oscillatory movements of the strengthen French catenary start at around 600-620 km/h and the rail-track lost of contact starts occurring at around 700km/h, with new and more aerodinamic designs it mgith be possibile to further reduce:

a) the air drags , b) the electrical consumption, c) the train weight. The new AGV engines are the first of a new generation of electrical motors.

With regards to weight/power ratio, these new motors outperform all other previous electrical rail motors, and this is only the beginning.

In the not too distant future it might be possibile to have conventional trains running on a few dedicated lines at 400-450 km/h.

This might be the upper limit of the commercially feasibile conventional rail passenger (and AGV versions used for light goods fast trains).

Obviously, these type of speeds will be suited only on long HSLs stretches, and limited to certain Countries.

Nevertheless, lighter articulated trains, with extremely high power/weight ratio (let's say 40kW/ton), with top speeds limited to 300-350 km/h with such power/weight ratio these AGVs will be capable of extremely fast accelerations, similar to that obtainable with the present maglec technology.
It not only the rail, wheel contact that causes air drags, it is mostly the front of the train which causes a lot of problems.. etc, etc,

For short distances, fast acceleration is the most importan factor.

I don't think, that Siemens will simply watch Alstom without doing nothing.
take care,

Coccodrillo

February 1st, 2009, 06:41 PM

Please, try to remain in topic.

joseph1951

February 1st, 2009, 07:06 PM

hans280

February 1st, 2009, 08:40 PM

TBMs are now boring 15 to 20 m per day.

http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1

http://www.tat-ti.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/Wochenbericht_366_KW_05-09_TAT_TA-Faido_Vortrieb_Uebersicht_EST.pdf

Mille grazie for providing this link! I was getting so frustrated with the official "alptransit" site, which usually lets us wait until the 20th or so of each month before telling us what happened the previous month - and which in the last 6 weeks has remained largely mum. Judging from the speed of progress, it looks like the drills are finally out of the disturbance zone that caused them to slow down over the last year?

Coccodrillo

February 1st, 2009, 09:58 PM

The East TBM passed throught the difficult zone without problems. In the '90 there were big fears that this zone was impossible to pass, even newspaper wrote a lot with pessimsitic attidude. In fact, above the tunnel there is a zone of really difficult rock, and first recognistions were exactly there. A 5,5 km pilot tunnel has been bored in about 1993 some 300 m above the tunnels and during its construction it has been flooded by rock and water. Then after repairs this tunnel served as base for surveys which pushed down to the level of the base tunnel. The entrance of the pilot tunnel is near Faido acces tunnel. The West TBM will pas the Piora zone in the next months.

Coccodrillo

February 3rd, 2009, 11:37 AM

Mitteilung vom 03.02.2009

Stand der Arbeiten am Gotthard und am Ceneri
Am Gotthard und am Ceneri wird gebaut. Am 1. Februar 2009 waren von den insgesamt 153.3 km Tunnel, Schächte und Stollen des Gotthard-Basistunnels 125.4 km oder 81.8 % ausgebrochen. Der Vortrieb im Januar 2009 betrug 1428 m.

Die Arbeiten am Ceneri-Basistunnel laufen auf Hochtouren. Sowohl beim Nordportal in Camorino/Vigana als auch am Südportal in Lugano/Vezia sind Vorarbeiten im Gang. In Sigirino sind nach dem Durchschlag des Fensterstollens die Endarbeiten in der Logistikkaverne im Gang.

By the 1st February 2009, 125,4 out of 153,3 km of tunnels, or 81,8%, have been bored. In January 2009 a total of 1428 m have been excavated.

Work on the Ceneri Base Tunnel is also progressing. Here a map of the planned new line south of this tunnel: http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/14566.pdf. I think option C is the best, anyway there is no money for this line now.

hans280

February 3rd, 2009, 06:28 PM

gramercy

February 3rd, 2009, 07:03 PM

By the 1st February 2009, 125,4 out of 153,3 km of tunnels, or 81,8%, have been bored. In January 2009 a total of 1428 m have been excavated.

wow, on this basis it will be completed in 20 months, or by september 2010 :o
maybe by the London olympics we will have trains running in this thing :o

Work on the Ceneri Base Tunnel is also progressing. Here a map of the planned new line south of this tunnel: http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/14566.pdf. I think option C is the best, anyway there is no money for this line now.

oh boy, this just shows that GBT is only the beginning
basically we're talking about a system of tunnels from Basel all the way to Milano :nuts:

from Basel to Milano its roughly 300 kms, in the distant future, at least half of that will be in tunnels, 250 kph :nuts:

bluemeansgo

February 3rd, 2009, 09:48 PM

wow, on this basis it will be completed in 20 months, or by september 2010 :o
maybe by the London olympics we will have trains running in this thing :o

oh boy, this just shows that GBT is only the beginning
basically we're talking about a system of tunnels from Basel all the way to Milano :nuts:

from Basel to Milano its roughly 300 kms, in the distant future, at least half of that will be in tunnels, 250 kph :nuts:

Wow... that's nuts. I thought only Japan does those kind of percentages. Apparently, the Mag-lev they're building is believed to be as much as 80% underground.

Coccodrillo

February 4th, 2009, 10:18 AM

^^Why do you prefer like C? I guess it has some cost advantages going for it, as apparently it uses an existing crossing of the lake. I'd have said - if money were freely available - that the most wholesome solution is TI in that it is very direct and heavily in tunnels.

A2 and TI path cross the lake where it is about 100 m deep. For them they plan apparently a bridge, above or below the water.

B and C cross the lake near an existing dam where depth is low, the option can be an immersed tube.

The lake is up to 288 m deep so there are not a lot of options.

But I don't know more details at the moment.

===============

Otehr plans about northern part of the GBT: http://www.sma-partner.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181:topologiestudie-neat-kanton-uri&catid=15:projekte-und-konzepte&Itemid=89

Coccodrillo

February 4th, 2009, 02:14 PM

Per arrivare alla caduta del diaframma tra Faido e Sedrun nel tubo ovest mancano ancora 7.3 km, nel tubo est invece 6.4 km. Secondo il programma lavori la caduta del diaframma principale dovrebbe avvenire nel 2011. La messa in esercizio della Galleria di base del San Gottardo è prevista per fine 2017.

Or, in English:

The Piora difficult zone has been excavated without problems also in the eastern tube. There are still 7,3 km in the eastern tube and 6,4 in the western tube to be excavated. The main breakhtrought should be in 2011, the opening of the tunnel by the end of 2017.

Personal opinion: part of the 6,4/7,3 km will be excavated from Sedrun by drill & blast. Remaining distance as found on www.tat-ti.ch is 6,0/6,8 km. The record attained in November 2008 was 700 m in one month. At this utopic speed the breakthrought would be in less than 9 months, or october 2009. Too optimistic. At 450 m per month, it would be in amrch 2010. 2011, with opening in 2017, seems to me still too pessimistic.

Communiqué of 02.02.2009

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

As of February 1, 2009, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 125.4 km, or 81.8 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in January 2009 was 1428 m.

Work on the Ceneri Base Tunnel is proceeding at full speed. On the north portal at Camorino/Vigana, as well as on the south portal at Lugano/Vezia, preparation work is in progress. At Sigirino, following breakthrough of the window adit, final work in the logistics cavern is in progress.

gramercy

February 4th, 2009, 04:50 PM

yea, what the hell would take 6 years? c'mon helvetica, pick up the pace :)

Coccodrillo

February 23rd, 2009, 02:55 PM

From http://www.alptransit.ch/pages/d/galerie/fotogalerie.php. I love the last one...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8300/20081201faidoostroehret.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2245/20090121amstegwestinsta.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1690/dsc03833.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/104/sigirinodemontagetbmfen.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9498/sedruntwanordost.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Coccodrillo

March 5th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Communiqué of 05.03.2009

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of March 1, 2009, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 127.3 km, or 83 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in February 2009 was 1958 m.

Work on the Ceneri Base Tunnel is proceeding at full speed. On the north portal at Camorino/Vigana, as well as on the south portal at Lugano/Vezia, preparation work is in progress. At Sigirino, following breakthrough of the window adit, final work in the logistics cavern is in progress.

gramercy

March 5th, 2009, 07:59 PM

woo hoo, on that basis we should prepare for 2010.05 breakthrough (probably later, but still in 2010. woo hoo)

Luganese1980

March 11th, 2009, 03:06 AM

The record attained in November 2008 was 700 m in one month. At this utopic speed the breakthrought would be in less than 9 months, or october 2009. Too optimistic. At 450 m per month, it would be in amrch 2010. 2011, with opening in 2017, seems to me still too pessimistic.

Renzo Simoni, CEO of the AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd, recently said in an interview that the tunnel could maybe be finished a little earlier than expected, which means 2016 (but not sooner). According to him, that scenario, howewer, remains quite improbable.

Here's the original statement:

Liegt eine frühere Inbetriebnahme auch im Bereich des Möglichen?
Simoni: Es ist möglich, dass der Bau einige Monate früher fertiggestellt werden könnte. Das bringt aber nicht viel, weil die betrieblichen Abläufe auf den Fahrplanwechsel ausgerichtet sind.

Könnte es schon für Ende 2016 reichen?
Simoni: Das ist nicht ganz auszuschliessen, aber unwahrscheinlich. Wir sind alle sehr glücklich, wenn es bei Ende 2017 bleibt.

Luzerner Zeitung, 11.01.2009

Coccodrillo

March 11th, 2009, 11:24 AM

We will see.

Chi vivrà vedrà.

gramercy

March 11th, 2009, 05:57 PM

AVassilios

March 11th, 2009, 08:02 PM

why 2016? why later? why the pessimism? or are they preparing for a positive PR when they complete it 3 years before that?

I mean at this rate the tunnell will be cut by May 2010, thats next year. Are they expecting some bad rock in the remaining sectors? I dont think that it would/should take 5 more years to install all the necessery equipment, clean out and run some tests..

I think they mean the whole NEAT project, which also includes the Monte Ceneri tunnel (between Bellinzona and Lugano), maybe also some general infrastructure changings.

Coccodrillo

March 11th, 2009, 08:27 PM

Are they expecting some bad rock in the remaining sectors?

One of the most difficult sections that were planend has been passed without problems: the Piora fault.

I don't know if they expect other difficult zones, probably not, but it is impossible to know what lies exacly more than 2.000 m under the mountain. From Sedrun towards south they are boring 3 m/day by drill&blast and are in a diffucult zone.

Monte Ceneri tunnel (between Bellinzona and Lugano), maybe also some general infrastructure changings.

It is too early to say if the Monte Ceneri Base Tunnel will be opened in 2019 as is officially planned or before. They just started construction: 5,9 out of 40,2 km, or 14,6%, have been bored by now for this 15,4 km tunnel. But as of now only intermediate access tunnels and caverns have been built. Boring of the main tunnels will begin next year, probably all by drill&blast (the rock is too difficult for TBMs).

http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/news-detail.php?pid=547&querystring=week%3D%26year%3D%26head%3D%26newsdescription%3D%26Record_Start_ID%3D1&sqlSearch=SELECT+%2A+FROM+news

Tender documents for the Ceneri base tunnel main contracts are currently being prepared. The contract will include two 8 km sections of drill-and-blast tunnels for the north running main line, while the south running line will include two 1.8 km sections of drill-and-blast and two 4 km sections of TBM-driven tunnels. The completed rail line is expected to open to traffic in 2019.

hans280

March 11th, 2009, 08:33 PM

I think they mean the whole NEAT project, which also includes the Monte Ceneri tunnel (between Bellinzona and Lugano), maybe also some general infrastructure changings.

I wouldn't presume. Please keep in mind that, these days, a new railway construction project falls in 2 1/2 parts: first, the heavy engineering; secondly, the laying of tracks, etc.; thirdly; the cabling, signalling and security works. The first and the third take forever. The one in the middle (and, dare I remind you, unlike in the days of our grandfathers where an army of workers were laying tracks) takes but a few months. The heavy engineering on the not-so-challenging Rhin-Rhone Est HSL here in France is now finished - so.... the line will come into service in 3-4 years' time. Which being so....

...it is entirely conceivable that that monumental Gotthard tunnel will be reach its final breakthrough before end-2010 and the railway like will open 6-7 years later.

gramercy

March 11th, 2009, 09:17 PM

i still cant comprehend that, and the reason is a more and more nicely sounding word: China

yes, one could say they have no protests, no democratic processes to deal with or no environmental or for that matter worker safety "problems"....but as you said, europeans will spend 4-6 years AFTER the heavy construction with the signalling/cabels/safety systems/computers/tests

and I dont think the chinese can/do afford to overlook those since they will be running 250-300-330-350 kph trains even more frequently and for longer journeys than the french (lines) do

this whole thing -to me- just screams of bureaucracy run amock with little consideration for speed or even profit (that is: return on the public's money)

Top Gear did a show a few years back in the UK: a local counsil wanted to close down a 1 mile long 5 m wide backroad for a whole weak to resurface it
topgear doubled the nr. of workers and they worked for 24 hrs instead of 5x8, which saved money on wages and only inconvenienced the people for just 1 day

--

This is not strictly on topic, but another thing I cannot comprehend is just how cheap the germans are regarding high speed rail. Yes, I've heard all the arguments about population density, configuration of settlements, focusing on the local communities......but the simple fact is, today Berlin-Warsaw takes exactly as long as Berlin-München, which is a shame considering the polish conditions are supposed to be worse.

And because the germans and the austrians are cheap, there will be no direct eastern-eu - western eu line in the foreseeable future (namely Paris-Budapest-Istanbul), because east of Strassburg only the Karlsruhe-Ulm and the Linz-Wien sections will be 250 kph, but the Ulm-Linz sections will be at or below 160 kph.

Same goes for Nürnberg-Erfurt: the line is half built but they are toying with the idea of 2019. Its a joke! The viaducts are already standing!

Coccodrillo

March 11th, 2009, 09:49 PM

...it is entirely conceivable that that monumental Gotthard tunnel will be reach its final breakthrough before end-2010 and the railway like will open 6-7 years later.

The Lötschberg Base Tunnel (shorter, but still 34,6 km, the fouth longest railway tunnel of the world anyway) broke thrrought in April 2005 and has been opened in June 2007 (for passenger by the timetable change of December).

If the Gotthard broke throught in April 2010, this would mean an opening in 2012. Even being pessimistic adding two years, this would be an opening in summer 2014, or 3 and a half years before December 2017.

we must wait spring 2010 to see.

Coccodrillo

March 13th, 2009, 11:58 AM

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4257/alptransitscavatimar200.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alptransitscavatimar200.jpg)

kato2k8

March 15th, 2009, 06:53 PM

topgear doubled the nr. of workers and they worked for 24 hrs instead of 5x8, which saved money on wages and only inconvenienced the people for just 1 day

5x8 x n = 40n
24 x 2n = 48n

=> they spent 20% more on wages than originally planned - minimum, more likely one has to account for nighttime bonus, i.e. minimum +10% for 1/3rd of the time, and overtime bonus (12-hour-shifts?).

gramercy

March 15th, 2009, 07:46 PM

5x8 x n = 40n
24 x 2n = 48n

=> they spent 20% more on wages than originally planned - minimum, more likely one has to account for nighttime bonus, i.e. minimum +10% for 1/3rd of the time, and overtime bonus (12-hour-shifts?).

fine

now calculate the amount inconveniencing people for 7 days vs. just 1 day and you are most likely in the green

kato2k8

March 16th, 2009, 03:00 AM

Weighs up pretty much against the night work done right in front of their houses.

gramercy

March 16th, 2009, 12:28 PM

Weighs up pretty much against the night work done right in front of their houses.

it was a rural road, you can probably watch the episode on youtube

Coccodrillo

March 16th, 2009, 11:16 PM

Document about the northern portal of the Ceneri Base Tunnel:

http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/Ceneri_Nord.pdf

(only in Italian, but with some drawings, 1,3 MB)

hans280

March 18th, 2009, 08:45 AM

The Lötschberg Base Tunnel (shorter, but still 34,6 km, the fouth longest railway tunnel of the world anyway) broke thrrought in April 2005 and has been opened in June 2007 (for passenger by the timetable change of December).

Yes, but wasn't the LBT done almost exclusively through blast tunnelling? (Sprengvortrieb, in German.) I ask because I seem to remember that in this case you cement the tunnel as fast as you progress. Conversely, the drilling of Gotthard leaves a raw tunnel, with considerable extra work to be done before the thing is finished. (Look again at the diagrammes you have posted: a lot of tunnel broken 1-2 years ago is still not green.) Hence, I'd have thought after the final breakthrough they'll probably need another couple of years before the tunnel is ready to even contemplate railway work?

Coccodrillo

March 21st, 2009, 02:13 PM

The Faido yard lies on the bottom of a narrow valley, where there is no space and no flat land to store the spoil excavated from the tunnel. That's probably one reason that didn't allowed the use of TBM from Faido towards Sedrun until the breakthrought of the Bodio-Faido section.

As solution for this problem was, ten years ago, planned to build a transport tunnel between Faido and Bodio. From Faido acces tunnel a small (~4 m diameter) tunnel was to be bored towards Bodio. The spoil excavaded by TBM or drill&blast from Faido section would have been transported via this small tunnel to Bodio and there to a depot or loaded on trains.

For this reason the west tunnel between Faido and Bodio can't be finished until the TBMs arrive in Sedrun: it is used to transport spoil and other materials to/from Bodio. Anyway, the definitive lining of the tunnel has been finished (ie the green part).

Description of the first project: http://www.lombardi.ch/publications/pdfviewer.php?ID=373 (PDF, in French)

Other documents: http://www.lombardi.ch/

PS only about 1300 m have still to be bored in the west tube between Erstfeld and Amsteg, and 2500 in the other.

Coccodrillo

March 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM

PPS a view of the Faido yard from alptransit.ch:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7048/faido2piccola.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faido2piccola.jpg)

hans280

March 21st, 2009, 08:43 PM

...For this reason the west tunnel between Faido and Bodio can't be finished until the TBMs arrive in Sedrun: it is used to transport spoil and other materials to/from Bodio. Anyway, the definitive lining of the tunnel has been finished (ie the green part).

PS only about 1300 m have still to be bored in the west tube between Erstfeld and Amsteg, and 2500 in the other.

Thanks for these clarifications, Coccodrillo. I'd say your PS is almost the most riveting observation: I think we both remember that the contractors lengthened the projected construction time by almost two years with express reference to the delays and political squibbles (in Kanton Uri, of course - bloody "verkrusteten Innerschweizer"!!! :lol:) over the Erstfeld connection. Well... if that's going to be finished BEFORE the Faido-Sedrun link then, surely, at least the additional two years fall away?

Coccodrillo

March 22nd, 2009, 01:03 AM

Probably seeing the problems at Erstfeld and the lack of space at Faido they decided do slow down also works at Faido.

From the same PDF, what was planned in october 2000:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1016/lombardi373.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lombardi373.jpg)

hans280

March 22nd, 2009, 10:26 AM

Probably seeing the problems at Erstfeld and the lack of space at Faido they decided do slow down also works at Faido.

From the same PDF, what was planned in october 2000: [snipped]

OK, get your point: the breakthrough between Sedrun and Faido was always scheduled to be the last to be achieved. An interesting angle, however, from your diagram is the indication that the heavy engineering works shall be finised two full years after the final breakthrough. If, as people now expect, the breakthrough is achieved some time in 2010 then we can work back from there and say, the tunnel will be ready for track laying, signalling and electrification some time mid-2012. Where does this leave us concerning finalisation?

Coccodrillo

March 22nd, 2009, 11:55 AM

- last breakthrought June 2010 (second TBM from Faido)
- end of civil works in June 2012
- end of track laying in June 2014
- opening December 2014, 4 and a half year after the breakthrought

Is it possible? I repeat that the Lötschberg Base Tunnel broke throught in April 2005 and opened in December 2007, 2 and a half years after.

And as far I remember, this year the east tube will see the first rails, maybe only for a short length, as a test. In Erstfeld track laying was expected to take place from 2010.

hans280

March 22nd, 2009, 08:45 PM

- last breakthrought June 2010 (second TBM from Faido)
- end of civil works in June 2012
- end of track laying in June 2014
- opening December 2014, 4 and a half year after the breakthrought
Is it possible?

It is certainly possible. The question is, is it realistic? My office next-door neighbour is a smug Korean from Seoul, who likes to tell me how the freeway between the capital and Pusan was completed in a couple of years by crews of workers - not to mention the CEO - who worked relentlessly around the clock. The CEO lived in his office for two years and went home to his family not once. Young Sang Mok finds it a bit difficult to understand that the guys who purport to be busy renovating our local metro station here in Paris stop working every Friday afternoon. My feeling is, Switzerland is closer to France than to East Asia? :lol:

OK, seriously now. I guess it might be possible to open Gotthard within two years after the completion of the heavy engineering, but I still think it would be a hard slug. Take a look at this schedule for the finalisation of LGV-Rhin-Rhone-Est: http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/lgv_RR_BE_calendrier.pdf. As you'll see they expect to open slightly less than two years after finishing all the "heavy stuff" (including a test period for the trains) - so far so good. They also, however, count on having almost another two years to do railway equipment work while still finalising the heavy stuff - and THAT, Cocodrillo, I'm not so sure you can do in the middle of a mountain. OK, you cover that base by mentioning that the Swiss tunnelers home to start some railway work in the eastern tunnel in the none-to-distant future. Good luck to them, but... it might yet be a long shot.

Coccodrillo

March 27th, 2009, 06:44 PM

Weekly (every friday) updates of works: http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1

Plan of Faido station: http://www.tat-ti.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/Stand_der_Arbeiten_KW13_09_26032009.pdf (2.7 MB)

Luganese1980

April 2nd, 2009, 11:47 PM

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
As of April 1, 2009, of the total of 153.3 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 129.3 km, or 84 %, had been excavated. The total amount driven in March 2009 was 1995 m.

Work on the Ceneri Base Tunnel is proceeding at full speed. On the north portal at Camorino/Vigana, as well as on the south portal at Lugano/Vezia, preparation work is in progress. At Sigirino, following breakthrough of the window adit, final work in the logistics cavern is in progress.

http://new.neat.ch/en/?no_cache=1&cHash=81c81f602d

gramercy

April 3rd, 2009, 12:02 AM

great progress, exactly 24 kms remaining, thats a little over 1 year :WOOT:

Coccodrillo

April 3rd, 2009, 10:20 PM

We don't know. Now they are boring 2 km/month because the TBMs in Erstfeld are boring fast. But in June they will arrive in Amsteg, then only the two TBMs from Faido (~350 m/month) and the explosive frm Sedrun will continue boring.

hans280

April 4th, 2009, 07:53 AM

^^Exactly. And please note that the graphic representations on the NEAT website are not equidistant. To allow visitors to gauge the more spectactular parts of the project, they overrepresent the caverns and underrepresent the "unglamorous" ordinary tunnel pipes. I'd estimate another 7-8 km remain to be drilled between Faido and Sedrun. With a progress of 3-4 km per month this is likely to take another two years. - Following which a non-trivial amount of time will go into converting raw tunnel into the final product.

Coccodrillo

April 4th, 2009, 09:46 AM

Exactly.

From http://www.tat-ti.ch/index.php?id=118&L=1 there are left...
Ancora da scavare fino a Sedrun: 6'053.40m in the western tube
Ancora da scavare fino a Sedrun: 5'163.00m in the eastern tube

This is the distance remaining to the border of the contract. There are another 1-2 km assigned to Sedrun contract.

gramercy

April 4th, 2009, 06:06 PM

soo...whats your guesstimate of final breakthrough?

Coccodrillo

April 4th, 2009, 06:30 PM

May 2010 @100 m/week from Faido.

But I don't know. Nonody knows what lies under the mountain.

Coccodrillo

May 4th, 2009, 12:13 PM

Incredible record for Faido's east TBM: 160 metres in a week :eek2:

(and only 24 m for the other TBM, because it has been stopped for maintenance)

http://www.tat-ti.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/Wochenbericht_379_KW_18-09_TAT_TA-Faido_Vortrieb_Uebersicht_EST.pdf (the link will be unavailable from Friday 8 May)

gramercy

May 4th, 2009, 03:44 PM

w00t, thats 1 m / hr

antovador

May 4th, 2009, 09:48 PM

in the main site there is not yet month communiqué but the map is updated. Erstfeld and Amsteg East tube sections to meet soon.

Annibale

May 5th, 2009, 12:13 AM

What is going to happen south of Lugano?
I mean, is the train supposed to share the same railways of the Milan S lines?

Coccodrillo

May 5th, 2009, 07:03 AM

What is going to happen south of Lugano?

A new line to Chiasso:

http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/14566.pdf

http://www.milanotrasporti.org/forumfiles/uploads/AlpTransit_Sud.jpg

I mean, is the train supposed to share the same railways of the Milan S lines?

Yes :wallbash:

There are only project for, as example, the doubling of the Luino line (map above) or a new freight line Seregno (on the Milano-Chiasso line)-Carnate (Milano-Lecco)-Treviglio (Milano-Venezia).

gramercy

May 5th, 2009, 10:30 AM

The bottleneck on the Zürich-Milano route was / is NOT the italian section, its the alpine tracks.

Coccodrillo

May 5th, 2009, 03:25 PM

Now. The bottlenecks in the near future will be:
- the Basel region
- the Basel-Olten line which has 400 trains/day on two tracks with plans for 500 (Hauenstein tunnel, to be supplemented by the planned Wisenberg tunnel)
- the Milan region (the initial part of the Milan-Gottahrd line has, today, a suburban train every 15 minutes, and every hour one or two direct trains, and 3 or 4 freight trains)

earthJoker

May 6th, 2009, 09:40 AM

Let's face it, in a Network there is always a bottleneck (minimal cut).

gramercy

May 6th, 2009, 11:02 AM

Now. The bottlenecks in the near future will be:

thank you

Coccodrillo

May 8th, 2009, 04:30 PM

(another good result, 162.50 m for the east TBM from 1 to 7 May, west TBM stopped for maintenance)

(by 1 May 131 km or 85% of 153,3 km have been bored, progression in April has been 1640 metres)

pcrail

May 16th, 2009, 08:47 PM

In Ticino begins preparation work for the installation of track and signaling equipment in the Gotthard Base Tunnel. South of Biasca the work started for the erection of a 15 acre base where building material can be stocked and the containers for 230 employees are sited. The railway installations will be placed in the tunnel begining May 2010. Work from Erstfeld will start 2011. Alptransit (http://www.alptransit.ch/de/medien/medienmitteilungen/?no_cache=1&cHash=81c81f602d)

The work is done by the consortium Transtec Gotthard (http://www.transtec-gotthard.ch/) consisting of

Atel (www.group-ait.com) (electrical installation, building services)
Balfour Beatty (www.balfourbeatty.com) (track installation)
Thales (www.thalesgroup.com) (signaling)
Alpine (http://www.alpine.at/de/index.php) (project management)

Coccodrillo

May 16th, 2009, 11:15 PM

A film about the assembly of the tracks, wires and other equipments: http://www.transtecgotthard.ch/projekt/

gramercy

May 16th, 2009, 11:26 PM

great film

antovador

May 16th, 2009, 11:51 PM

Don't need understand German, the video speak for itself, wonderful video.

Luganese1980

May 17th, 2009, 02:09 PM

«Construction Site Open Day»: 6'200 visitors in Sigirino (Ceneri tunnel)

Affluenza record di visitatori durante la giornata delle porte aperte organizzata da AlpTransit San Gottardo SA e svoltasi oggi, sabato 16 maggio 2009 al cantiere di Sigirino. 6’200 visitatori hanno colto l’occasione per toccare con mano i lavori iniziati nell’aprile 2006.

Già dalle prime ore del mattino l’affluenza di pubblico è stata notevole: 6'200 visitatori provenienti da tutta la Svizzera e anche dalla vicina Lombardia hanno raggiunto il cantiere AlpTransit di Sigirino. I visitatori hanno potuto ammirare di prima persona, lungo un percorso appositamente creato, i lavori già eseguiti sul cantiere di Sigirino. L’attrazione principale di quest’anno consisteva in una visita in sotterraneo all’imponente sistema di caverne operative, che sarà il vero e proprio punto nevralgico per la logistica di cantiere.

Le spiegazioni tecniche sono state fornite, ad ogni tappa del percorso, dai collaboratori di AlpTransit San Gottardo SA, della Direzione locale dei lavori e delle imprese.

Il pubblico ha così potuto toccare con mano i lavori di costruzione della Galleria di base del Ceneri e rendersi conto della grandiosità di quest’opera.

La Rete Uno della Radio della Svizzera Italiana RSI ha seguito in diretta con la sua radiomobile la giornata tastando il polso ai visitatori e organizzando programmi speciali inerenti le tematiche delle trasversali ferroviarie alpine.

La Galleria di base del Ceneri verrà messa in esercizio nel 2019 e costituisce un tassello fondamentale della linea di pianura della nuova linea ferroviaria attraverso le Alpi.

alptransit.ch