[USA] United States Interstate Highways [Archive] - Page 19

architect77

July 15th, 2009, 01:05 AM

"I usually lurk but had to jump in to dispel this ignorance. Charlotte is a major urban area with a four level stack (intersection of I-77 and I-485) and another one to be built in the near future. I-485 in south Charlotte is a parking lot because of poor planning and not enough lanes, and its safe to say that any Charlottean would never go near Independence Boulevard in rush hour unless they had to. We do have problems just like everyone else, and to simply brush off NC as a backwater state with no real urban centers is to be frank simply insulting. And I havent even breached the topic of I-40 in the RTP area, or 440 during rush hour...."

UHHHHH, I was born, raised, and educated in North Carolina, and my sole purpose since joining Skyscraper City has been to boast about NC's greatness. For example visit the "Highway Fonts" thread. In my opinion Charlotte's biggest claim-to-fame is its elegant and extraordinary skyline. It is among the most beautiful in the country. I worked along side the lead architect of the Hearst Tower for a year in Atlanta.

I only mentioned the "4-level stack thing" because of all of the impressive Texas interchanges within this thread. North Carolina is now building flyovers all over the state, however the engineers tend to support them with as much earth as possible. It's hard to imagine anything like Atlanta's "spaghetti junction" being built in NC for now...

Charlotte has definitely made all the right moves in its attempt to enter the big leagues, and certainly looks and feels different from any other NC city. But you have to remember that Charlotte's 5 or 6 county (touching Mecklenburg) metro population is only slightly larger than the Triangle's or even the Triad for that matter. The 13+ county "Charlotte
Region" population of 2 million can easily be matched with 13 counties closer to Raleigh.

I am proud of the entire state. I live in NYC, and everytime there's a moment when strangers are announcing to each other where they hail from, I always become the "celebrity" after mentioning North Carolina complete with oooohs, and ahhhhs.

Until I find my absolute favorite shot of the Charlotte skyline, just look at the city from space and be thankful...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/architect77/charlotte_nit_sts56.jpg

ChrisZwolle

July 16th, 2009, 04:03 PM

Tolls on Oklahoma's turnpikes are going up 16%, the first increase since 2001.

hoosier

July 17th, 2009, 05:16 AM

UHHHHH, I was born, raised, and educated in North Carolina, and my sole purpose since joining Skyscraper City has been to boast about NC's greatness.

That is not a reason to join this forum. I would prefer you take your blind homerism elsewhere. Shit stinks in the Tar Heel State just as badly as it does anywhere else.

hoosier

July 17th, 2009, 05:22 AM

I-95 is 6 lanes through much of Va from what little I've seen of it. VDOT would do well to add a lane or two to each side of I-81 too, and some of its pavement is deteriorating...

Widening I-81 would be a complete waste of money, since most of the traffic is from trucks looking to avoid congestion on I-95. Shift the freight to rail and you will see traffic on I-81 drop significantly. Not only is this a more environmentally friendly plan, it is way cheaper.

pwalker

July 17th, 2009, 05:37 AM

That is not a reason to join this forum. I would prefer you take your blind homerism elsewhere. Shit stinks in the Tar Heel State just as badly as it does anywhere else.

Yep, I'm not sure sprawl is something to proud of. Impressive, yes, the same way a bad highway accident is "impressive". Everyone wants to look.

ChrisZwolle

July 17th, 2009, 08:34 AM

Widening I-81 would be a complete waste of money, since most of the traffic is from trucks looking to avoid congestion on I-95. Shift the freight to rail and you will see traffic on I-81 drop significantly. Not only is this a more environmentally friendly plan, it is way cheaper.

That's some very simplistic thinking you got there..

Transportation doesn't work that way. "shifting freight to rail" is very vague, and the majority of non-bulk carried by trucks is not suitable for rail freight. It's not like someone says "shifting freight to rail", and all problems will magically disappear...

ADCS

July 17th, 2009, 04:35 PM

That's some very simplistic thinking you got there..

Transportation doesn't work that way. "shifting freight to rail" is very vague, and the majority of non-bulk carried by trucks is not suitable for rail freight. It's not like someone says "shifting freight to rail", and all problems will magically disappear...

I-81 does not encounter any major (top 20 CSA) metropolitan areas. It's entire purpose for existence is to provide long-haul trucks with a bypass for I-95, as he mentioned, since 95 goes through some of the biggest metros in the United States (Richmond all the way up to NYC). Therefore, most of the shipping that occurs on I-81 is exactly the kind of bulk freight that would be well-served by shifting the cargo to rail transportation.

The rub is, most of the rail infrastructure in the Northeast is already at capacity. Given the high gas prices last summer, most of the remaining spare capacity was already taken. While the railroads are engaging in massive capital projects right now, they understandably are not seeking to overexpand, and risk the same situation they faced in the 1960s, when even freight was only marginally in the black, due to heavy capital expenditures. Therefore, in the absence of nationalizing the rail infrastructure (which is politically infeasible in the United States at this time), you're correct, some expansion of I-81 is necessary, particularly near major interchanges and freight distribution centers.

Billpa

July 17th, 2009, 06:03 PM

ChrisZwolle

July 17th, 2009, 06:33 PM

I-81 is mainly a connector from the Boshwash metropolis to the southwest, Tennessee, Northern Georgia, and everything west of Alabama. I-95 is a north-south corridor, I can only imagine that traffic from New Orleans, Birmingham, Atlanta and points west doesn't use I-85/I-95 but I-81/I-66 to Washington.

But let's not exaggerate the "problems" on I-81, it mostly sees 40,000 - 50,000 AADT through Virginia, which is still significantly below saturation level which arrives in the 80,000 - 90,000 range for 4 lanes.

Billpa

July 17th, 2009, 07:34 PM

There's a ton of truck traffic where I live on 81 but much of it gets "divided" when 81 meets the Pennsylvania Turnpike to the south- and at the 81/78 split to the north east.

ChrisZwolle

July 17th, 2009, 07:42 PM

Yeah, that section between Harrisburg and Bordnersville is a pivotal piece of the entire Interstate. north-south traffic continues on I-81 here, while it meets east-west traffic from the Midwest to New York City (via I-78) as well. And it interchanges with I-76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike) which leads to the major industrial centers in the Midwest and Philadelphia in the east. Northbound traffic from the Baltimore area also enters I-81 in Harrisburg.

Quite interesting, the city of Harrisburg never grew that much, something you would expect from a city located that strategic. I wonder why, it seems like it could've been as big as Pittsburgh.

Billpa

July 17th, 2009, 08:08 PM

Not sure but I would think not growing early on as a port of some sort may've played a role- the rivers that meet at Pittsburgh allowed goods to travel down the Ohio and into the Mississippi and out to sea.

ChrisZwolle

July 17th, 2009, 08:27 PM

Abandoned part of I-44 near Tulsa, Oklahoma:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3690432279_10c2f1874d.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/2j4t3ic.jpg

I-275westcoastfl

July 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM

That would make an awesome drag racing strip! If they were so far along why didn't they just finish it?

Rail Claimore

July 18th, 2009, 02:52 AM

That would make an awesome drag racing strip! If they were so far along why didn't they just finish it?

That's most likely the old routing of I-44, whereas the new routing was built to meet with that interchange to the east.

go_leafs_go02

July 18th, 2009, 05:58 AM

was it ever open? it even still remains signed!

nevermind..google earth imagery goes back to 1995, and you can see the original routing and stuff.

architect77

July 18th, 2009, 07:17 AM

That is not a reason to join this forum. I would prefer you take your blind homerism elsewhere. Shit stinks in the Tar Heel State just as badly as it does anywhere else.

1) "Boasting of NC's greatness" comment was only intended for dude in Charlotte that I offended with my original HUMBLING comments regarding NC interchanges.

2) You won't find NC-related posts from me regarding architecture, sustainable cities, or urban planning, etc.

3) However after having lived in SoCal, ATL, Bostn, Paris, NJ, NYC during last 20 years and having driven to the West Coast 9 times, I CAN and WILL continue to boast about North Carolina's highways.

4) Earlier "Sex with your sister" comment perfectly illustrates the irony and misconceptions surrounding NC, which is progressive, pro-active, and guided by intelligent minds. For an example, did you know NC was 1st to install fiber-optic cable statewide and later used as prototype for the rest of the world? Or that NC has ultra-strict limitations on all ridgeline construction in order to preserve scenic and pristine mountain views? Little things like these are just some examples of the higher standards the state holds itself to.

5) On social issues, gay issues, racism, etc. however, NC fails miserably. Though I'm proud and very glad, I still can't believe Obama won NC's electoral votes.

ADCS

July 18th, 2009, 07:25 AM

Interstate 81's existance isn't ONLY to provide a bypass of I-95; there are people who live near and drive on 81 everyday. It most certainly is used heavily by trucks, for sure, but let's not exagerate that 'it's entire purpose for existence' is to provide long-haul trucks a 95 bypass.

I don't think that's an exaggeration at all. A similar case is I-76 and the I-70 western extension in Colorado/Utah. While useful for other purposes, such as tourism, the entire reason for those freeways' existence is to provide a more direct connection between Los Angeles and the I-80 corridor.

In much the same way, I-81's entire reason for existing is to take trucks off of I-95. That doesn't mean it's not used for many other reasons; it's one of the most direct routes between the Gulf Coast and New York, for example.

Billpa

July 18th, 2009, 11:25 AM

If its ENTIRE purpose was to give trucks another route up the east coast there wouldn't be as many local exits along the way. 81 does not have a single reason to exist, like many highways it serves many purposes including providing commuters an easy way to get from point a to point b.

ChrisZwolle

July 18th, 2009, 12:12 PM

True, there are also many small cities along the I-81 corridor;

Kingsport/Johnson City/Bristol, Tennessee (302,000 MSA)
Roanoke, Virginia (293,000 MSA)
Harrisonburg, Virginia (118,000 MSA)
Winchester, Virginia (122,000 MSA)
Hagerstown, Maryland (264,000 MSA)
Chambersburg, Pennsylvania (143,000 MSA)
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania (509,000 MSA)

They are maybe not huge world cities, but the population is still significant.

Substructure

July 18th, 2009, 02:39 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3690432279_10c2f1874d.jpg

Is there any plan to return this to nature, or do they intend to let it rot there ?

Billpa

July 18th, 2009, 05:06 PM

Not to sound cynical or anything but I'm gonna guess "rot". :nuts: It would be nice to see it turn into some sort of a park or wildlife zone or something.

ChrisZwolle

July 18th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Tom985

July 18th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Let's not exaggerate the value of this area... just thousands of square miles of plains, prairies and some woods. An 1 mile abandoned freeway between two other freeways isn't gonna make a big difference.

True, but I'm amazed that OK introduced a TOTSO interchange on a mainline Interstate highway, especially considering that NC built three unTOTSO interchanges around Greensboro (including the epic phail at I-40-I-840 west) during the same era.

http://i30.tinypic.com/2j4t3ic.jpg

mgk920

July 18th, 2009, 06:10 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3690432279_10c2f1874d.jpg

Is there any plan to return this to nature, or do they intend to let it rot there ?
Think: 'Movie set!'

:lol:

:yes:

Mike

ChrisZwolle

July 18th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Tulsawood :D

ChrisZwolle

July 18th, 2009, 06:53 PM

wtf is this?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2505239082_5ddb64de2f_b.jpg

(California should read Interstate)

ADCS

July 18th, 2009, 07:20 PM

Let's not exaggerate the value of this area... just thousands of square miles of plains, prairies and some woods. An 1 mile abandoned freeway between two other freeways isn't gonna make a big difference.

It's very close to Tulsa, which is actually quite an attractive area, with rolling hills and the Arkansas River cutting through it. Most Oklahomans would either put this part of the state (Green Country) or the mountains of the southeast as the most beautiful parts.

Re: the TOTSO, the highway that extends from the bottom of I-44 is the Creek Turnpike, opened in 1992 to serve the growing southern suburbs of Tulsa. The Will Rogers Turnpike (I-44) has existed since the mid-1950s. It made way more sense to implement a single TOTSO interchange than spend the cash on a massive web of interchanges. You also have to keep in mind that the Oklahoma Department of Transportation (free highways) and the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority (toll roads) have completely different funding schemes, and are very restricted by the state constitution in what they can collaborate in.

Tom985

July 19th, 2009, 02:22 AM

It's very close to Tulsa, which is actually quite an attractive area, with rolling hills and the Arkansas River cutting through it. Most Oklahomans would either put this part of the state (Green Country) or the mountains of the southeast as the most beautiful parts.

Also, just a bit north of here is the Port of Catoosa (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.234339,-95.733018&spn=0.017516,0.038409&t=k&z=15), from which it's possible, IIRC, to travel by ship (!) to the Gulf of Mexico via the Verdigris, Red, and Mississippi Rivers. The sight of high-level bridges where various highways cross the waterway is quite startling.

Re: the TOTSO, the highway that extends from the bottom of I-44 is the Creek Turnpike, opened in 1992 to serve the growing southern suburbs of Tulsa. The Will Rogers Turnpike (I-44) has existed since the mid-1950s. It made way more sense to implement a single TOTSO interchange than spend the cash on a massive web of interchanges. You also have to keep in mind that the Oklahoma Department of Transportation (free highways) and the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority (toll roads) have completely different funding schemes, and are very restricted by the state constitution in what they can collaborate in.

What I had in mind was what I call an unTOTSO interchange, like
I-40/I-840/I-73 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.065926,-79.916697&spn=0.017553,0.038409&t=h&z=15), I-85/I-40/I-73/Green 85 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.00266 ,-79.850693&spn=0.017567,0.038409&t=h&z=15) and I-85/I-40/I-840 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.057218,-79.683537&spn=0.017555,0.038409&t=h&z=15) in Greensboro and I-10/AZ 51/AZ Loop 202 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.460303,-112.038124&spn=0.009058,0.019205&t=h&z=16) in Phoenix. In these interchanges the numbered mainline takes precedence as it turns through the interchange, thereby eliminating left-hand on- and offramps. It's more expensive, but it's the correct thing to do.

In fairness, the unTOTSOs in NC are configured in such a way that little or no speed reduction is required even as the mainline bends through the interchange. Clearly that wasn't feasible at I-44/US 412/Creek Turnpike. It wasn't at the one in Phoenix, either, so they accepted a lower speed for the mainline. Perhaps the results were less than encouraging.

ADCS

July 19th, 2009, 02:34 AM

^^ This is Oklahoma, as well. They generally don't have a whole lot of funding for highways, as the OTA is required to keep tolls low, and the state gas tax is nearly non-existent

hoosier

July 19th, 2009, 04:27 AM

Quite interesting, the city of Harrisburg never grew that much, something you would expect from a city located that strategic. I wonder why, it seems like it could've been as big as Pittsburgh.

The Susquehana is a not a navigable river. That may have had something to do with limiting Harrisburg's growth.

On the other hand, the city is a major transportation hub with three different interstates converging on the city as well as being the state capital.

hoosier

July 19th, 2009, 04:29 AM

I-275westcoastfl

July 19th, 2009, 04:38 AM

Even with freight that means when a train arrives it will unload onto trucks which will usually disperse in an urban area and clog up those roads. It is a good thing to expand rail but at the same time they need to upgrade highways too.

hoosier

July 19th, 2009, 04:42 AM

Nexis

July 19th, 2009, 06:56 AM

wtf is this?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2505239082_5ddb64de2f_b.jpg

(California should read Interstate)
California is one giant Concrete / Asphalt Interstate if u ask me , so i think that's acceptable + who cares what it says , no one pays attention to whether or not it says that :lol: Theres a DAM sticker on it , were you addressing that issue :lol:

ChrisZwolle

July 19th, 2009, 10:03 AM

^^ The interstate sign should read this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/I-405.svg/150px-I-405.svg.png

or this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/I-405_%28CA%29.svg/480px-I-405_%28CA%29.svg.png

SkyView

July 19th, 2009, 01:15 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3690432279_10c2f1874d.jpg

Is there any plan to return this to nature, or do they intend to let it rot there ?

They could make a dragster racetrack of it.

Paddington

July 19th, 2009, 10:00 PM

Anyone have any experience with making those expressway time lapse videos? I'm thinking about making some. Any ideas on how to mount the camera securely to the dashboard, without permanently damaging/altering your car? I don't have a kid to hold the camera like that freewayjim guy. :laugh:

ChrisZwolle

July 19th, 2009, 10:12 PM

Here's what I do:

I taped some velcro to the bottom of my camera, and on a flat part of my dashbord (in my case: above the odometer, otherwise I'd only film wiper blades and interior). That way, your camera won't fall off when you brake or take a turn. Also, it reduces some of the shaking of the road. DON'T ZOOM THE CAMERA! Otherwise all shaking is exacerbated on video.

Make sure to have at least a 2 GB card, because time-lapse videos require quite some space (4 minutes is like 15 miles if sped up 4 times). I usually speed them up 2 times on urban freeways, and 4 times on rural freeways because the interesting features are further apart on rural freeways. You could switch between 2x and 4x or even faster if you want.

Render it at 720px. You can chose this at the rendering options in Windows Movie Maker. The regular rendering only gets you HQ on Youtube, but 720px gets you an HD video, which are nicer to look at :)

It looks like this, but you can also place the camera somewhere else where you have a good line of sight.
http://i43.tinypic.com/zk33hz.jpg

J N Winkler

July 19th, 2009, 10:36 PM

I don't think Jim Georges has his son hold the camera anyway. The usual method in US and British road enthusiast circles is to use a suction mount, generally available for less than $50, and I think possibly less than $20. It is also important to keep the windshield free of dirt and bugs. In the US this is easy to do because gas stations typically have squeegees in basins of washing fluid, but in Britain (and possibly the rest of western Europe) this is not normal provision and so it is sensible to invest in a squeegee and spray bottle which can be carried in the trunk. I think it may even be possible to find a squeegee where the spray bottle doubles as the handle.

ChrisZwolle

July 19th, 2009, 10:47 PM

It is also important to keep the windshield free of dirt and bugs. In the US this is easy to do because gas stations typically have squeegees in basins of washing fluid, but in Britain (and possibly the rest of western Europe) this is not normal provision and so it is sensible to invest in a squeegee and spray bottle which can be carried in the trunk. I think it may even be possible to find a squeegee where the spray bottle doubles as the handle.

I have seen it at every gas station in Germany and Switzerland (along freeways) :) I used it a lot :lol:

although flies and bugs are especially a problem in low-lying, water-rich areas. It's a major problem in the Netherlands, but barely in Switzerland for instance.

I-275westcoastfl

July 20th, 2009, 06:15 AM

The velcro idea is a nice cheap way of doing it, might have to try it sometime.

ChrisZwolle

July 20th, 2009, 11:34 AM

I guess Alternate Interstates are quite rare. This one's in Kansas City, MO.
http://i28.tinypic.com/3499ptw.jpg

pwalker

July 23rd, 2009, 12:33 AM

Kansas City has one of the most extensive freeway systems in the US, the metro area is quite spread out and there are many alternate ways to get through the city.

nerdly_dood

July 23rd, 2009, 01:54 AM

Kansas City has one of the most extensive freeway systems in the US, the metro area is quite spread out and there are many alternate ways to get through the city.

What that tells me: Tourists and visitors beware, KCMO highways will blow your mind and put you on the other side of the city before you know what happened.

pwalker

July 23rd, 2009, 03:36 AM

What that tells me: Tourists and visitors beware, KCMO highways will blow your mind and put you on the other side of the city before you know what happened.

lol that is sadly more true than you think!

ChrisZwolle

July 23rd, 2009, 08:19 AM

I was surprised to see Kansas City, MO even has a second downtown, to the south, not located on any freeway.

ChrisZwolle

July 23rd, 2009, 03:09 PM

Stubs off I-64 in St. Louis.
http://i26.tinypic.com/29qmhoz.jpg

July 23rd, 2009, 09:54 PM

weird ^^

pwalker

July 24th, 2009, 02:48 AM

weird ^^

Weird, yes. Uncommon, no. There are a lot of unfinished freeways/interchanges in the U.S. due mainly to the freeway revolts that occured in the 1960's and 1970's.

ADCS

July 24th, 2009, 03:52 AM

weird ^^

Another casualty of the freeway wars of the '60s and '70s

mgk920

July 24th, 2009, 05:08 AM

^^
That was planned to be an inner beltline around the west edge of downtown Saint Louis, starting at the incompleted interchange at I-44/55, running north using that stub and then connecting to I-70 on the near north side. Interestingly, the neighborhoods went bad anyways and a planned new Mississippi River crossing will be using ROW in that same area on the north edge of downtown Saint Louis.

Mike

I-275westcoastfl

July 24th, 2009, 05:34 AM

Weird, yes. Uncommon, no. There are a lot of unfinished freeways/interchanges in the U.S. due mainly to the freeway revolts that occured in the 1960's and 1970's.
Ah those idiots... They made commuting so much more fun in many cities. :ohno:

J N Winkler

July 24th, 2009, 10:18 AM

Ah those idiots... They made commuting so much more fun in many cities. :ohno:

Why should your road to work run through a black person's bedroom?

It's not hard to see why the freeway revolts occurred when you look at right-of-way maps from the 1950's and 1960's which show large tracts of housing within control-of-access lines.

ChrisZwolle

July 24th, 2009, 10:57 AM

The biggest problem in St. Louis seems to be the I-70. It runs depressed with only 4 lanes through downtown, though traffic volumes are around 80,000 which will cause traffic jams during rushhour. That's also why the Poplar Street Bridge is congested. Technically speaking, the Poplar Street Bridge has no capacity problems, it has 8 lanes, and an AADT of 99,000 which is very sufficient. 8 lanes can handle up to 200,000 if necessary. I-64 also has sufficient capacity at 90,000 AADT on 6 lanes. So the problem seems to be the I-55/I-64/I-70 interchange plus the I-70 itself.

I'm afraid St. Louis proper is some kind of a lost cause though. I bet most jobs in the metropolitan area are by far outside of downtown, and except for the southern 3rd part of St. Louis, most of the city is experiencing urban prairie, sometimes on Detroit scale. Neighboring East St. Louis also has this problem. I wonder what they can do to save the city from running completely empty. The city had a population of 857,000 in 1950, down to 350,000 today, which is even a bigger decrease than Detroit. (percentage-wise). The per capita income is less than 40% of the US average. Crime is high. I think they won't get much further than revitalizing the downtown core for now, but most of the city is a problem. Housing in the southern, less bad part of St. Louis is also aging, so I doubt if they will steer clear of the urban prairie problem in the future.

Nexis

July 24th, 2009, 03:50 PM

Heres some Google Streetview HD photos of the 710 freeway in Los Angele's
Accident on the 710
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5686/accidentonthe710freeway.jpg

The 710 @ 405

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7083/i710i405.jpg

The 710 @ Willow Street

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8121/i710willowstreet.jpg

I-275westcoastfl

July 24th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Why should your road to work run through a black person's bedroom?

It's not hard to see why the freeway revolts occurred when you look at right-of-way maps from the 1950's and 1960's which show large tracts of housing within control-of-access lines.
Well the road to work that ran through there ended up getting built anyways. Instead of a highway those people got overcrowded artery roads which means they got all that traffic anyways along with loud, slow moving traffic. My county had a great freeway plan that would have made commuting smooth and getting from point a to b quickly. Instead my county is referred to "the land of traffic lights" because we have poor artery roads to get everywhere. Those residents of the past were idiots because they didn't think long term and I see now in many cases they built artery roads through residential areas to relieve traffic from other roads.

ADCS

July 24th, 2009, 07:49 PM

^^ You don't know that. Houston only had one major freeway cancellation (TX 225 within the loop) and traffic is still a nightmare at rush hour.

ChrisZwolle

July 24th, 2009, 08:07 PM

ADCS

July 25th, 2009, 12:16 AM

Hmmm, Houston was the only city reducing traffic congestion in the last 25 years... but it grew tremendously. How long would it take to get to downtown from the edges of town (Woodlands, Sugar Land etc.) during rushhour?

Driving from where I used to work (Meyerland, southwest Loop 610) to where I lived at the time (Spring, 7 miles south of the Woodlands), would take about 1:15 on a decent-flowing day, and up to 2 hours if there were accidents.

Congestion did drop after the late 1980s - early 1990s reconstruction boom, particularly when the West Sam Houston Tollway was built - but it did not take long for it to reach back to familiar levels. While much of it was due to growth, it also had to do with the increased capacity paradox - as freeways were widened, people who took alternative routes to dodge freeway traffic returned to the highways. For example, I would take surface streets from where I worked to Downtown, and then up the Hardy Toll Road. That would usually take about 55 minutes, but still cost me $3.00 per trip. Most people will not take the toll road if the freeway capacity is enhanced - see low Hardy traffic before the airport connector, and the drastic decrease in Westpark Tollway usage as they've opened up the new Katy Freeway, which parallels the toll road.

The multiple-CBD nature of Houston also contributes to the traffic issues here. When working in the Woodlands, both outbound and inbound traffic is very heavy during rush hour, despite I-45 being 4x4 + 3x3 frontage road. That's because of A. crappy engineering (putting a direct connector/flyover exit just past an onramp) and B. traffic both trying to leave the Woodlands to get to work closer to town, and coming to the Woodlands to work there. Of course, this multi-centered nature wouldn't exist without the massive freeways in the first place.

As you can see, it's pretty complicated.

ChrisZwolle

July 25th, 2009, 12:37 AM

While much of it was due to growth, it also had to do with the increased capacity paradox - as freeways were widened, people who took alternative routes to dodge freeway traffic returned to the highways.

Also a problem with the hub-and-spoke system. Some areas are quite far from freeways (especially further from the center). Traffic volumes on surface roads are quite high, so if the freeway flows again, it's not weird people choose the freeway again. However, any traffic engineer worth his salt calculates these things into a widening project.

As you mentioned, toll roads are also a problem. They only work if free routes are very congested. That's why I'd rather see tax-financed freeways than toll roads.

However, any really big city (metro over 5 million) becomes problematic. You'll get such significant rushhour flows that you will need massive freeways to handle that traffic. If you don't want to widen freeways that much, multiple CBD's are the best solution imo. They did quite a job on that in cities like Atlanta and Houston, and other naturally multi-cored metropolises like Dallas and the San Francisco Bay area. 5+ million metropolitan areas centered on one single downtown creates nearly uncontrollable commuter flows.

ADCS

July 25th, 2009, 02:23 AM

Also a problem with the hub-and-spoke system. Some areas are quite far from freeways (especially further from the center). Traffic volumes on surface roads are quite high, so if the freeway flows again, it's not weird people choose the freeway again. However, any traffic engineer worth his salt calculates these things into a widening project.

As you mentioned, toll roads are also a problem. They only work if free routes are very congested. That's why I'd rather see tax-financed freeways than toll roads.

However, any really big city (metro over 5 million) becomes problematic. You'll get such significant rushhour flows that you will need massive freeways to handle that traffic. If you don't want to widen freeways that much, multiple CBD's are the best solution imo. They did quite a job on that in cities like Atlanta and Houston, and other naturally multi-cored metropolises like Dallas and the San Francisco Bay area. 5+ million metropolitan areas centered on one single downtown creates nearly uncontrollable commuter flows.

Yes, but at what cost? While it's true that you don't have massive exoduses from a city center with a multiple CBD setup, you also disincentivize living close to your place of work and encourage sprawl (as you'll just have to take the freeways anyway, and you might as well live somewhere you can get the residence you want for the price you want). It seriously reduces the number of options for those who want the amenities of a more dense, urban environment, as there rarely exists in one area the critical mass to create these amenities.

Likewise, it sets into stone the requirement for personal transportation to be your main means of moving about anywhere, as the level of service for public transportation that this setup requires would require large, politically-infeasible subsidies as no route would get to the level of ridership that is necessary to become economically viable. This isn't a huge loss if you're of some means, but having to own a car and insurance can be a major pinch on lower-income making people, and having that car break down on you can be catastrophic, particularly if one cannot afford the repairs or another car.

Not only that, but while you'll not have frozen seas of cars from 5-9am and 4-8pm with a multi-CBD setup (always), you will have high levels of traffic at all hours of the day, as businesses and clients interact and engage with each other, not to mention support services go about their daily business - and since anyone who needs to do anything must jump in the car in the first place, and we're so conditioned to using the freeways anyway, you can see how traffic can build up at incredibly odd hours. Not only that, but there's rarely a means of traveling quickly against the flow - if there's traffic in one direction, there's traffic in the other, since people are all going to different places from different places.

ChrisZwolle

August 1st, 2009, 11:46 PM

Nice new bridge on I-95 in New Haven. It will replace the current 6-lane bridge.
http://i32.tinypic.com/jfgcwg.jpg

CURRENT BRIDGE:
http://i31.tinypic.com/34eez29.jpg

Xusein

August 2nd, 2009, 08:05 AM

That's the bridge that CONNDOT was putting almost 1/3rd of their budget in back in 2007 or so.

hoosier

August 3rd, 2009, 04:46 AM

I had no idea that bridge was getting replaced.

August 3rd, 2009, 02:09 PM

They need to widen the I-91 SB to I-95 NB to at least 2 lanes and CONNDOT needs to widen I-95 to 5x5 from New Haven to NY, although that will probably not ever happen.

Xusein

August 3rd, 2009, 05:32 PM

No, it probably won't happen. That would be massively expensive because the area that I-95 from New Haven to the NY border is situated in a very developed area with prohibitively high land costs (some of the highest in the nation). It was very hard from them to improve the highway in Bridgeport when they did it a few years ago. The state has no choice but to improve Metro North to keep the area from further congestion.

Unless you're going to any of the cities on I-95, I'd avoid it altogether. The Merritt Parkway is a much more better ride. Other than going through Hartford and Waterbury which sees high traffic, I-84/I-684 is another better way to get to New York. I never take I-95 anymore, not worth the stress.

JohnFlint1985

August 3rd, 2009, 09:46 PM

That's the bridge that CONNDOT was putting almost 1/3rd of their budget in back in 2007 or so.

but is is nice though and it will hopefully illimitable most traffic on the way to Boston. :)

ChrisZwolle

August 3rd, 2009, 09:56 PM

considering large freeway projects are rare in this region, it's not weird that a DOT has to spend a large proportion of their budget to a new large project (as this bridge).

JohnFlint1985

August 3rd, 2009, 10:14 PM

considering large freeway projects are rare in this region, it's not weird that a DOT has to spend a large proportion of their budget to a new large project (as this bridge).

very true and besides - this place is horrible in the morning. Also please consider that it is close to one of the largest USA universities Yale university. so in the morning it is murder to get through the bridge.

Nexis

August 5th, 2009, 04:16 PM

Personal , i don't take I-95 to Boston or New England, i take I-287 East to I-684 North to I-84 East to I-90 East to Boston from my home in North New Jersey, I-95 no doubt needs widening its not just the Highway , the Acela needs a new route through CT, all the old Bridges force the Acela to go 30 to 40 mph.

California

Anyway i found more Google Streetview HD sections
I-80 @ Exit 27
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9192/i80exit27.jpg

I-80 @ The 580 Freeway
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1006/i80i580.jpg

Somewhere in Northern Cali off the I-5
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1923/offthei5.jpg

Colorado

off I-70 in Frisco,CO

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3080/friscocomountainousview.jpg

I-70 WB in Silver Plume,CO
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9201/i70silverplumeco.jpg

I-70 Westbound
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3108/i70cowest.jpg

Looking at I-70 Westbound in Idaho Springs,CO
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/604/i70wbidahospringsco.jpg

I-70 / US-6 Split

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3397/i70eastus6split.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/832/denversigni70east.jpg

Hope you liked, i'll be posting more in the coming weeks:)

~Corey Best

Jeroen669

August 5th, 2009, 05:28 PM

Somewhere in Northern Cali off the I-5
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1923/offthei5.jpg

Weird traffic lights...

ChrisZwolle

August 7th, 2009, 10:28 AM

Detroit traffic volumes (2007)
http://i30.tinypic.com/5wxtts.png

Majestic

August 7th, 2009, 02:35 PM

Cool. Do you have more of these maps of other American cities?

ChrisZwolle

August 7th, 2009, 02:39 PM

That depends which way DOT's make them available. Some have PDF maps, some have interactive maps (yuck) and some have Excel or other table files.

ChrisZwolle

August 7th, 2009, 02:44 PM

Kansas City, Missouri.
http://i30.tinypic.com/ivxw7q.png

ChrisZwolle

August 7th, 2009, 02:46 PM

St. Louis:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2d9aez8.png

ChrisZwolle

August 8th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Nice video of I-10 through San Antonio, TX Click on the link to view it in HD on Youtube.
-oFEes_-Mck

Paddington

August 8th, 2009, 04:14 PM

Detroit traffic volumes (2007)
http://i30.tinypic.com/5wxtts.png

I take I-94 to work everyday. :yes:

ChrisZwolle

August 8th, 2009, 04:38 PM

Here are some downtown Detroit volumes :)
http://i26.tinypic.com/r01guo.png

Snowguy716

August 9th, 2009, 10:47 PM

It amazes me how huge the freeways in Texas are. Also, you can tell they were developed in the automobile era because of the lack of freeways through residential areas and roadside commercial big box areas right in to near downtown.

In the Twin Cities the freeways are completely different with most of them sunken with sound barriers and they run through residential sections of the city.

I-275westcoastfl

August 10th, 2009, 04:02 AM

I beg to differ in Texas a lot of highways ran through residential neighborhoods they had sound walls and wide open space in the suburbs, in the city they had sound walls with the neighborhoods on the other side.

LtBk

August 10th, 2009, 04:25 AM

Here is the link to the AADT for Baltimore County in 2008: http://www.marylandroads.com/shaservices/mapsbrochures/maps/oppe/trafficvolumemaps/2008/baltimore.pdf

Xusein

August 10th, 2009, 04:39 AM

Here are some traffic logs for Connecticut...
(warning, the first link on the page doesn't work, the data is on the historical data).
http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?a=3532&q=330402

The busiest stretch of highway in the state is I-84 in Downtown Hartford, at exit 48, with 172,500 cars a day.

Also, I-95 stays with over 100k cars from the NY border to near New Haven...

OakRidge

August 10th, 2009, 04:46 AM

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/281/3803416792ae589c10b1b22.jpg
So Cal Metro: http://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/3803416792/

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7826/38026021034ba752132ab23.jpg
So Cal Metro: http://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/3802602103/

August 10th, 2009, 05:30 PM

WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.

massp88

August 10th, 2009, 09:13 PM

WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.

While the stacked overchanges would be welcomed in the commonwealth of Massachusetts, I think the red and blue columns, along with the stars look tacky .

ChrisZwolle

August 10th, 2009, 09:14 PM

Better than the usual detoriated look of concrete imo...

But I wonder how these stacks will look in 2030.

J N Winkler

August 10th, 2009, 09:59 PM

But I wonder how these stacks will look in 2030.

Probably much as they do now, except for natural aging of the traffickable surfaces like pavement and bridge decks. Dallas is in a warm, semiarid region and does not have a lot of smokestack industry.

ChrisZwolle

August 10th, 2009, 10:01 PM

Not quite a stack, but this is how concrete in the Netherlands looks after 40 years...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3803909386_0efe9748e0_o.jpg

Butt ugly.

August 11th, 2009, 12:41 AM

While the stacked overchanges would be welcomed in the commonwealth of Massachusetts, I think the red and blue columns, along with the stars look tacky .

True

Tom985

August 11th, 2009, 01:16 AM

Butt ugly.

Steel gets butt ugly, too. :ohno:

Paint and pressure washing, anyone? :banana:

hoosier

August 11th, 2009, 02:28 AM

WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.

Those stack interchanges require A LOT of space- Massachusetts decimated its inner cities with freeways and the required interchanges. I think the state shouldn't compound the problem by tearing down MORE property to satisfy the car.

Snowguy716

August 11th, 2009, 02:50 AM

Not quite a stack, but this is how concrete in the Netherlands looks after 40 years...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3803909386_0efe9748e0_o.jpg

Butt ugly.

We paint the bridges here so they don't look like that after 40 years.

Then again... one of our bridges just fell into the river after 40 years.

I-275westcoastfl

August 11th, 2009, 03:40 AM

I've always wondered why they don't pressure wash the concrete or something because all the highways here except the brand new ones look like that picture.

ChrisZwolle

August 11th, 2009, 07:02 PM

I-76 in Philadelphia really needs a major overhaul... look at this 1940's freeway...
empsArTbbRI

Paddington

August 11th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Stack interchanges are problematic in the snowbelt (actually even places like DC and Atlanta have few of them) because the ramps freeze up in the winter time.

dl3000

August 12th, 2009, 07:25 PM

Look at LA if you want to see lots of aged stack interchanges. Granted, the smog does a lot of damage im sure.

architect77

August 13th, 2009, 05:24 AM

North Carolina uses these pre-rusted steel beams/girders almost exclusively except along the coast. It's hard to distinguish newer flyovers from the older ones.

This 2004 photo is the improved I-85 and US70 interchange in Durham. Previously I-85 southbound didn't have any access to US70 eastbound, and US70 westbound merged with I-85 into the left passing lane.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/architect77/85flyover-1.jpg

architect77

August 13th, 2009, 07:54 AM

As Greensboro's urban loop begins to take shape with completed sections of various signed routes, NCDOT had always planned to re-route I-40 onto the southwest quadrant to bypass the old route's "death valley" interchange, and NC definitely loves the "bypass".

Soon afterwards, complaints about noise began, and more importantly NCDOT realized that by not re-routing I-40 the state would increase it's total Interstate mileage and in turn get about $8 million more federal funds annually.

Here is a hokey news report from Greensboro laden with inaccuracies from the reporter as well as a clueless citizen. I'm from the Raleigh/Durham area where the local newcasts are a little more sophisticated than this:
OOOPS! It will only link to youtube since embedding disabled by user. Sorry.
TUwZbePzdfw

manuelmonge

August 21st, 2009, 02:10 AM

i love american highways, since i was a kid, the expalin all in her signals, hope one day i could drive one of those :)

ChrisZwolle

August 21st, 2009, 08:26 AM

As Greensboro's urban loop begins to take shape with completed sections of various signed routes, NCDOT had always planned to re-route I-40 onto the southwest quadrant to bypass the old route's "death valley" interchange, and NC definitely loves the "bypass".

Soon afterwards, complaints about noise began, and more importantly NCDOT realized that by not re-routing I-40 the state would increase it's total Interstate mileage and in turn get about $8 million more federal funds annually.

I still don't understand the current routing of I-40 and I-85 through the Greensboro area.

As far as I know the mainline I-40 and I-85 routings are like this (thus not counting Business Routes)
http://i27.tinypic.com/2ia7gcw.png

But it might be different, for example, I-40 could run further south and I-85 could run further north. But in my opinion, my map makes the most sense, creating direct routes, and as less concurrencies as possible.

FM 2258

August 21st, 2009, 08:36 AM

^^

I'm also confused as hell about 40 and 85 as well as 73.

architect77

August 21st, 2009, 11:19 AM

I still don't understand the current routing of I-40 and I-85 through the Greensboro area.

As far as I know the mainline I-40 and I-85 routings are like this (thus not counting Business Routes)
http://i27.tinypic.com/2ia7gcw.png

But it might be different, for example, I-40 could run further south and I-85 could run further north. But in my opinion, my map makes the most sense, creating direct routes, and as less concurrencies as possible.

You have it absolutely correct. NCDOT had envisioned shifting the I-40 mainline onto the southern portion of the future loop and did so initially until previously mentioned issues prompted them to return to the old route through town.

dl3000

August 22nd, 2009, 07:49 AM

What would you call the little connector between 85 and 40 at Holden Farms and Woodlea?

ChrisZwolle

August 22nd, 2009, 09:04 AM

US 70 and probably a Business Route 85.

architect77

August 23rd, 2009, 01:36 AM

What would you call the little connector between 85 and 40 at Holden Farms and Woodlea?
I believe it is I-73 or I-74.
Here's that new sw quadrant. I don't mind repeating that NC can build some damn roads now...
srMcSR6xy1Q

I'm not familiar with the various "future" interstates planned there. And of course Winston-Salem will be getting it's own loop as well- I haven't a clue as to how it will be signed.

The old I-40 route (now business 40) that went through downtown Winston-Salem was awesome. It had steep grades and nuzzled right up beside the older Gotham-styled highrises. Very "northeast urban" flavor...

dl3000

August 23rd, 2009, 07:52 AM

Ah, I see now.

ChrisZwolle

August 23rd, 2009, 10:14 AM

J N Winkler

August 23rd, 2009, 07:23 PM

The Interstate beltways around Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greensboro are already in the pipeline, but completion of I-540 has been delayed by money problems and now the NCTA is building part of it. US 29 is already a freeway between Greensboro and Danville--it was when I drove it in 1995. Most of the others are at various stages in planning.

Edit: I see US 29 does have a short length of expressway with at-grade intersections from just north of urban Greensboro to just north of NC 150, the remainder being full freeway. But this length also has interchanges at select major crossings. I believe upgrades are also being planned. I think the Danville bypass was finished after 1995. I know (having seen the construction plans when it was advertised in 2003) that the Madison Heights bypass has been finished, though there is still a missing link SE of Lynchburg and some work still to be done between Danville and Lynchburg. IMV the main obstacles on US 29 between Greensboro and DC are Charlottesville and maybe Gainesville or Warrenton.

architect77

August 23rd, 2009, 09:58 PM

1) As much as I want to agree with you I think Georgia grew more than NC from 1990 to present. I think Georgia currently has 9.6 million residents and ranks as the 9th most populous state.
2) Construction on Raleigh I-540 western leg began 2 weeks ago and will be the state's first toll road. It will not have toll booths however. Residents firmly contend that they will avoid the toll section.
3) The last remaining section of Charlotte's I-485 loop will be completed within the next 2 years. Charlotte definitely has the state's most urgent transportation needs.
4) NCDOT has completed many comprehensive studies on many of the major corridors including US1 and US64 and US70. Their solutions include conversion into superstreets, limiting access, and the addition of HOV/HOT lanes.
5) Despite having one the highest gas tax rates in America however, the state can't even find the money to improve Charlotte's I-77/I-85 interchange, nor can it come up with the $330 million to replace the I-85 Yadkin River Bridge.
_______________________________
The good news is that high-speed rail from Charlotte to Raleigh to Washington, D.C. will become a reality within the next 5 years.

Stuck in Bama

August 25th, 2009, 03:04 PM

North Carolina is the fastest growing state east of the Mississippi. The state grew from 6.6 million in 1990 to 9.1 million in 2007. And even half the counties declined in population, so there's a major shift towards the urban centers of NC plus additional population growth in those urban centers.

Projects I think would be useful:
* complete I-540 around Raleigh
* complete I-840 around Greensboro
* complete I-485 around Charlotte
* turn US 1 into a freeway from Rockingham to Raleigh and Henderson
* turn US 29 into a freeway between Greensboro and Danville, VA
* turn US 74 into a freeway from Charlotte to Wilmington
* turn US 421 into a freeway from Greensboro to Fayetteville
* construct a loop around Winston-Salem

You might wanna add to that list adding lanes to I-95. Its a nice, rural route through eastern NC, but it was kinda congested. US 74/I-74 section was recently opened near Lumberton including the interchange with I-95.

I-95 in South Carolina from Florence to the NC state line, looks like the interstate time forgot.:ohno:

ChrisZwolle

August 25th, 2009, 10:24 PM

Dallas-Fort Worth: 1987 - 2010

A nice comparison out of my 1987 and 2010 Rand McNally atlases of the DFW Metroplex.

1. DFW in 1987.
Dallas has only a few suburbs, and the area between Dallas and Fort Worth is still half empty. The Dallas North Tollway (DNT) only reaches I-635 and the President George Bush Turnpike (PGBT) hasn't been constructed yet. Carrollton was a far unsignificant suburb at that time. I-20 ran further north, via what is now I-635/US 80. Loop 12 wasn't a freeway yet. SH 121 ended near Euless and SH 114 ended just north of Irving, which was a smaller city back then.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/3857180120_c075a30876_o.jpg

2. DFW in 2010.
The DFW area has exploded and doesn't even fit on two pages anymore, as opposed to 1/3rd of a page 23 years earlier. New mega suburbs like Plano, Frisco and McKinney have developed. The area between Dallas and Fort Worth has been fully urbanized, as has the area around the DFW International Airport. Relatively few has changed around Fort Worth, roadwise.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/3856391057_bff3f44b1d_o.jpg

Tom985

August 26th, 2009, 05:41 AM

Projects I think would be useful:

* turn US 1 into a freeway from Rockingham to Raleigh and Henderson

I doubt it. The route looks good on a map, but when I drove on it last year from Apex to Camden SC, it was very lightly traveled.

architect77

August 27th, 2009, 06:38 AM

architect77

August 27th, 2009, 06:41 AM

Here is "10 Questions" with North Carolina's new head of the DOT. Some of it is interesting, especially regarding the cost of highway signage for private businesses...

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5769655/

Tom985

August 27th, 2009, 10:16 PM

J N Winkler

August 27th, 2009, 11:23 PM

I-40: they are talking about the failed concrete overlay on the stretch between Durham and Raleigh which had to be fixed at many millions of dollars in added cost.

I-785: Pavement was too thin and made with too little binder, and broke up under heavier-than-anticipated traffic. The freeway was originally designed and constructed as US 117 (IIRC) and was upgraded to Interstate long after it was possible to change the pavement design.

ChrisZwolle

August 29th, 2009, 02:04 PM

Perhaps a bit late, but still interesting to report, on july 9th, the first new span of the I-10 Twin Bridges between New Orleans and Slidell opened. It will replace the destroyed and then repaired bridge which was considered too low to handle storm surges. The new bridge will be much higher above the water (30 feet) with a top of 80 feet near Slidell to allow ships to pass. The other span will open in 2011. When completed, the capacity will be increased from 4 to 6 lanes.

You can see it U/C here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/Newtwinspan.JPG/800px-Newtwinspan.JPG

location:
http://i31.tinypic.com/jimbm8.png

Mateusz

August 29th, 2009, 02:10 PM

God I never understood US roads system and stuff. I don't find US highways interesting comparing to european roads :(

ChrisZwolle

August 29th, 2009, 02:19 PM

I think US Highways, Interstate Highways and State Routes are far more interesting than the European roads. There are way more numbering oddities, more interesting road number shields and general oddities than in Europe. The vast size and diverse landscapes also allows for interesting stuff.

Although Europe also has it's charms with all the different signage systems.

I-275westcoastfl

August 30th, 2009, 06:27 AM

God I never understood US roads system and stuff. I don't find US highways interesting comparing to european roads :(
What is difficult to understand?

J N Winkler

August 30th, 2009, 12:32 PM

ChrisZwolle

August 30th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Specialized discussion of US road issues hardly ever happens on SkyscraperCity--there just isn't the knowledge base for it here.

Yeah, we need more Americans over here :)

The most basic form of the American road system is not that hard to understand; Interstate Highways/US Highways -> State Routes -> County Routes (or equivalent). The numbering patterns of Interstates and US Highways are also not really hard to understand; even numbers run west-east, odd numbers run south-north. They increase from west to east for I-routes and east to west for US routes.

State Routes are more different, I usually cannot find any patterns, zoning or other system, so they tend to be randomly assigned. The numbers can be reused in every state, but there are usually no US/I/SR numbers with the same number. If there is a US 50, there isn't a SR 50 or I-50 in the same state.

Another interesting thing is that not only Interstate Highways are freeways, but US Highways and State Routes can be designed as freeways too. Some roads have a somewhat lower design standard, but can still be considered freeway (equivalents). Some freeways are even unnumbered, like the many Parkways in the greater New York area, which only have a reference number. In other states, like Georgia, US and I-routes also have a reference State Route number. In areas like Los Angeles or San Francisco, State Route freeways are just as important as Interstate Highways.

I-275westcoastfl

August 30th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Yeah, we need more Americans over here :)

The most basic form of the American road system is not that hard to understand; Interstate Highways/US Highways -> State Routes -> County Routes (or equivalent). The numbering patterns of Interstates and US Highways are also not really hard to understand; even numbers run west-east, odd numbers run south-north. They increase from west to east for I-routes and east to west for US routes.

State Routes are more different, I usually cannot find any patterns, zoning or other system, so they tend to be randomly assigned. The numbers can be reused in every state, but there are usually no US/I/SR numbers with the same number. If there is a US 50, there isn't a SR 50 or I-50 in the same state.

Another interesting thing is that not only Interstate Highways are freeways, but US Highways and State Routes can be designed as freeways too. Some roads have a somewhat lower design standard, but can still be considered freeway (equivalents). Some freeways are even unnumbered, like the many Parkways in the greater New York area, which only have a reference number. In other states, like Georgia, US and I-routes also have a reference State Route number. In areas like Los Angeles or San Francisco, State Route freeways are just as important as Interstate Highways.
Great summary! :cheers1:

ea1969

August 30th, 2009, 06:44 PM

Just to add that 3-digit Interstate numbers are derived from a 1- or 2-digit number by pre-appending a digit (ie. I-275 is related to I-75). If the first digit is odd, the highway is a spur into a city. If it is even, it is a route through or around a city. 3-digit numbers are designated in each state separately; they can be many Interstate highways with the same number in different states.

ChrisZwolle

August 30th, 2009, 07:09 PM

Yes, this works for US Highways too, though 3-digit US Highways are often much more important than 3-digit Interstates, and are often hundreds of miles long too. The US 381 is nearly 1900 miles long for instance.

J N Winkler

August 30th, 2009, 09:28 PM

Shurely US 281 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_281)? (Some have suggested it as the actual dividing line between East and West--it's the one I personally like.)

ChrisZwolle

August 30th, 2009, 09:32 PM

ADCS

August 31st, 2009, 03:06 PM

Yeah that's the one I meant :)

The dividing line is interesting, although the cultural dividing line is still more the Mississippi, even if this geographically is not exactly in the center of contiguous United States.

I think 50 years ago, you're absolutely right. Nowadays, either 281 or I-35 is a better line, I think. There's no real distinction between the industrial cities of the East and Midwest and the resource-extraction cities of the Eastern Plains, while points west still differ greatly

J N Winkler

August 31st, 2009, 03:22 PM

The dividing line depends on what is under consideration. US 281 makes sense more in terms of climate (it is where the arid West begins). Meanwhile, the 100th meridian is essentially the dividing line between checkerboard counties (usually 30 miles square) and the much larger counties seen further west where land uses are less intensive than grain farming.

dl3000

September 2nd, 2009, 08:29 AM

I think 50 years ago, you're absolutely right. Nowadays, either 281 or I-35 is a better line, I think. There's no real distinction between the industrial cities of the East and Midwest and the resource-extraction cities of the Eastern Plains, while points west still differ greatly

The way you categorized the cities just seemed really cool like how you said resource extraction etc. Is there some sort of urban studies categorization of all major cities in the USA and their primary contributions to the national economy I wonder? Now I know generalizations are often too general, but geography is geography, cities are there for a reason.

Majestic

September 2nd, 2009, 04:02 PM

U.S. highways numbering runs from 1 to 101 on N-S axis and from 2 to 98 on W-E axis. Interestingly, U.S. 101 is still considered as a two-digit highway (10 counting as a single digit). :)

FM 2258

September 2nd, 2009, 10:31 PM

^^

Wow, I had no idea. I always thought it was a far off "spur" of U.S. 1.

ChrisZwolle

September 2nd, 2009, 10:32 PM

Another weird thing is US 400 in Kansas as there is no US 00.

ChrisZwolle

September 2nd, 2009, 10:37 PM

100 Most Congested Roadway Segments in Texas

http://apps.dot.state.tx.us/apps/rider56/list.htm

DanielFigFoz

September 2nd, 2009, 10:52 PM

I supose with such a large amount of roads it's hard for all of them to be "correctly" numberd.

Snowguy716

September 3rd, 2009, 06:29 AM

Quite a lot. Funding distributions, the highway planning process, the role of MPOs and federal government agencies like EPA and USACE, etc. Even at the level of highway trivia, there are things like numbering patterns in various states, the distinction between primary and secondary state highway systems in some states, variations in signing practices (which in turn are related to subtleties in how the MUTCD is formulated and the presence or absence of state supplements or own-state replacements for it), etc. There are similar complexities everywhere (Spain and France come to mind), but they are only just now starting to be discovered and discussed since those countries have lagged the US in putting their road-related materials online.

Specialized discussion of US road issues hardly ever happens on SkyscraperCity--there just isn't the knowledge base for it here. The Usenet newsgroup misc.transport.road has historically had a lot of in-depth discussion (and is accessible through Google Groups), and the AARoads forum is increasingly becoming a popular place for it as well. There are country-based forums now which achieve a similarly high level of specialization for countries or regions outside the US (SABRE for the UK, SARA for France, Wegenforum.nl for the Low Countries, etc.).

In Minnesota the numbering system is complicated and doesn't make a lot of sense. This is because some of the system is written directly into our state constitution while the rest was approved by the legislature.

The trunk highway system of 70 routes was approved by referendum in 1920. When the U.S. Highway system was created, many of the U.S. Highways ran concurrently with state routes... but rather than take down the state routes, no effort was made so you had a lot of duplications. This happens today with U.S. Interstates that run along old U.S. Highway paths. Interstate 94 through most of Minnesota is signed as both 94 and U.S 52. The difference is that since parts of U.S 52 still exist, it would be stupid to fracture the highway by removing signage where interstates now run concurrently with them.

So, in Minnesota you have:

U.S. Interstate Highways: Paid for and regulated by the federal government, but maintained by the state of Minnesota.

U.S. Highways: There is less regulation with U.S. Highways and they vary from controlled access freeways to simple 2 lane rural highways. The U.S. Highways around where I live (71 and 2) have been upgraded in recent years to include lefthand turn lanes, widened shoulders, rumble strips, and an increased speed limit to 60mph on rural 2 lane portions (65 on divided 4 lane portions).

State Highways: Paid for and maintained by the state. Again, these vary much like the U.S. highways from controlled access freeways (Highway 100 or the Crosstown (MN 62)) to narrower 2 lane roads with gravel shoulders.

County State-Aid-Highways: These are special highways that the county proposes to the state that are then funded by the state based on criteria of traffic flow and the road's ability to connect communities/markets. They are maintained by the county. Usually they are improved 2 lane highways with paved shoulders.

County Roads: Funded and maintained by the county. Speed limits vary but are usually either unmarked (55mph) or are marked at 55mph. Since these roads aren't improved as much as state funded roads, they have sharp curves and more hills, so suggested slower speeds are often posted at sharp corners.

City streets/township roads: Are funded by either the city or township through its property taxing authority. They are often maintained either by the city or by the county. My township, for example, contracts out to the county for plowing and sanding in winter time.

There are also forest service roads that are minimally maintained roads in state and national forests. These are not meant for through traffic, but for maintenance/stewardship of the forests and for recreation.

Each level of roads can be funded by other sources. For example, a street resurfacing in my city was upgraded because of federal stimulus money and was completely torn up with new utility pipes put in underneath with new sidewalks, curbs, and storm drains.

Federal stimulus money also paid for applying rumble strips to all busier county highways.

Another example is the complete reconstruction of the main road through our city which is a state highway. While the state provided the bulk of the money, the county, city, soil and water conservation district, and even donations helped pay to completely redesign and beautify the roadway.

The road runs on an isthmus between two lakes that our city is situated on. Originally it was just an undivided four-lane road running right along the shore of Lake Bemidji. The old road (which had been replaced by the newer one in the 1960s) ran on the other side with businesses in between.

The project included rebuilding the bridge (a standard bridge before) into a two-span mock stone suspension type bridge with river stones on the outside. The road then splits up with two lanes per direction.. one following the original roadway (westbound) and the new eastbound following the old road that had been replaced in the 1960s.

The shrinking of the roadway on the Lake Bemidji side allowed for a wider space between the road and the lake. Large bike/walking paths have been constructed on both sides now with the oldest bridge constructed in the 1910s now closed to car traffic.

The Soil and Water conservation district came in and reconstructed teh shoreline to prevent erosion and planted native grasses, shrubs, and trees along the shore to help with erosion as well. In the islands where the road splits up and reconverges, they planted flowers, shrubs, and trees (including disease resistant elms).

The road is also curvier now and a bit narrower. It is meant to slow drivers down as they enter the city.

Here is a picture of the result.. (sorry, it's not the best picture.. but hey, what can you do?)

http://www.freeberggrund.com/images/projects/TH197%203.jpg

edit: the picture is too big and I can't figure out how to resize it. Just click the link.

Stuck in Bama

September 3rd, 2009, 11:05 AM

Speaking of Numbering. I always of the opinion that when Corridor X is finally complete I was assuming that I would be numbered as I-30 that would duplex I-40 from Little Rock to Memphis, than split to have I-30 to run to Birmingham. How did the feds come up with I-22??

wise_zech

September 3rd, 2009, 11:15 AM

hi guys..

ChrisZwolle

September 3rd, 2009, 11:24 AM

Stuck in Bama

September 3rd, 2009, 01:28 PM

I-22 won't connect with I-40 directly. It will start near the edge of Memphis at the future I-269 beltway. I personally am not a fan of such long multiplexes. I-22 is not a violation of the numbering system, as it is north of I-20 and south of I-40.

Yeah I understand that its compliant with the interstate numbering system, and I did forget that it will not connect with I-40 directly. I guess the #22 is just as good as any.

Multiplexes are not all bad, I live about 3 miles from an interstate that is a multiplex for about 150 miles. Cant tell you why that was the case, but I did hear sometime ago that I-20 was originally routed that would split from I-59 near Tuscaloosa and basically run through Columbus, MS, Greenville, MS and El Dorado, AR. Basically along the US 82 corridor.

ChrisZwolle

September 3rd, 2009, 05:37 PM

Rail Claimore

September 3rd, 2009, 06:37 PM

^^ I've thought about that scenario, but instead of I-22, it should be an extension of I-30 considering the size of cities it serves.

Paddington

September 5th, 2009, 12:51 AM

One of the major stack interchanges in Detroit, M-39 (Southfield Fwy) and I-94 (Jeffries Fwy).

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8100/image028wt.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5413/image30iu.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2076/image027p.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7955/image029a.jpg

Professor L Gee

September 5th, 2009, 07:18 AM

Here's my thoughts;

Maybe I-20 was originally routed via Meridian - Montgomery - Columbus - Macon - Savannah.
I-22 could've served Memphis - Birmingham - Atlanta - Greenville - Florence.

Savannah would make more sense for the I-20 terminus than the small city of Florence.

They DEFINITELY wanted an I-x0 running through Atlanta.

Reason being:

Interstates that end in 0 and 5 are principal routes that go through major cities, many of them cross-country (e.g. I-10 through Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Jacksonville; I-95 through Portland [ME], Boston, Providence, New York, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, Washington DC, Richmond, Jacksonville, and Miami).

There are a few, such as I-45 and I-85 that were never designed to be that long, but their sheer importance (I-45 through Dallas, Houston, and to Galveston and I-85 through Petersburg, Durham, Greensboro, Charlotte, Greenville/Spartanburg, Atlanta, and Montgomery) meant that they were deserving of I-x5 denominations.

konrakfon

September 6th, 2009, 07:44 AM

Interstate 35 Northbound in Kansas

From Flickr (OKRoads)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3890487283_faff8a3131_b.jpg

ChrisZwolle

September 6th, 2009, 11:31 AM

I-35 is interesting in Kansas. First, it runs through a whole lot of nothing, but it's routing is also interesting, since it veers east for quite some distance between Wichita and Kansas City. I kinda get the idea that it wasn't suppose to serve Wichita in the first place, but run via Tulsa to Oklahoma City.

ChrisZwolle

September 6th, 2009, 05:55 PM

Verso

September 7th, 2009, 02:12 AM

It has been exactly 90 years that on september 6th, 1919, the first Transcontinental Motor Convoy has reached San Francisco after 62 days of driving from Washington D.C. Everything west of Illinois was not paved, and often only dirt tracks.

Now that's what I call 'a lot of nothing'.

hkskyline

September 8th, 2009, 03:49 AM

Investigator: Some safety checks still lacking for US road travel of Mexican trucks, buses
2 September 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) - A government auditor says more work is needed to ensure the safety of Mexican trucks and buses awaiting permission to drive on U.S. roadways.

The Transportation Department's inspector general made public its latest report on Mexican truck and bus safety Wednesday. The audit says some states are not consistently reporting traffic convictions of people driving in the U.S. with Mexican drivers' licenses. Also, bus inspections are not being done, are done infrequently or have other problems.

The report says officials have made headway on other safety measures.

The North American Free Trade Agreement granted Mexican trucks and buses access to American roadways. Congress has refused to comply because of safety and job loss concerns.

bozata90

September 8th, 2009, 11:34 AM

I've read all the thread and I find the issue a kind of discrimination with each country discriminating the citizens of the other. For the insurance issue - you should think of that kind of solution, that we have in Europe - international insurances. It works pretty easy - I buy here a policy (the so-called "Green card"), which covers like 30 or 32 countries. Then, when I leave the EU with my car I am obliged to show this peace of paper to the officer at the border. If I do not have it, than he would simply not let my in with my car. That's it.

With the language problem - begin implementing pictogram signs. I would not agree with Chris that all the truck drivers here in Europe have to speak a foreign language. I am acquainted to quite a lot that do not speak any fluently and still drive their trucks for more than two decades. In every case you have a mobile phone and you can call a person who speaks English any time. Than Germans have some extracts of their laws published in almost every European language, so even if you can not understand why are you fined, you will know how much you have to pay, and then make an objection from your country. And, last but not least - most of the international documents for TIR transport have international names - like "carnet", "green card" (although English, it is understandable everywhere), and for buses - "Interbus", "Assor" etc.

HAWC1506

September 13th, 2009, 10:10 PM

Check out these photos of I-90! http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/sets/72157615121848716/

Absolutely horrendous.

ChrisZwolle

September 13th, 2009, 10:28 PM

Yeah, that's bad. The problem is that concrete lasts that long, that DOT's don't have much of an incentive to replace it, so they probably don't plan ahead with budgets to replace it. Once you have to replace it, it usually means a complete overhaul of the pavement because it's like 40 - 50 years old. I don't know that much about concrete, because we do not use it in the Netherlands, but I think current concrete pavements are much better to resist traffic and weather than it was in the 1960's. As you can see in Poland for instance, they don't lay individual concrete slabs anymore, but pour it so it's one big piece of concrete.

Albaneren

September 14th, 2009, 01:53 AM

Good, but not good enough to be compared with the European motorways.

pwalker

September 14th, 2009, 02:04 AM

Today is a special day in the history of the Interstate Highway system.

It has been exactly 90 years that on september 6th, 1919, the first Transcontinental Motor Convoy has reached San Francisco after 62 days of driving from Washington D.C. Everything west of Illinois was not paved, and often only dirt tracks.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was on this convoy, and his experiences with the German Autobahn system had propelled the creation of the Interstate Highway System as we know it today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_Motor_Convoy

I think a lot of people in the US don't realize how influential Eisenhower was in creating our current highway system. Without him, it probably would have been built in some form eventually, but with him it was built in a relatively short period of time, with most major construction in the first decade and a half. In the mountain west, many of the late 50's/early 60's infrastructure still exist...I guess both good and bad, in that it was built at a high quality standard, but the lifespans of a lot of this construction are rapidly coming to an end.

I-275westcoastfl

September 14th, 2009, 03:35 AM

I think a lot of people in the US don't realize how influential Eisenhower was in creating our current highway system. Without him, it probably would have been built in some form eventually, but with him it was built in a relatively short period of time, with most major construction in the first decade and a half. In the mountain west, many of the late 50's/early 60's infrastructure still exist...I guess both good and bad, in that it was built at a high quality standard, but the lifespans of a lot of this construction are rapidly coming to an end.
Exactly when built the system was the best in the world, however we lack the leadership and funds to maintain and expand upon the system properly.

Gaeus

September 14th, 2009, 03:42 AM

Exactly when built the system was the best in the world, however we lack the leadership and funds to maintain and expand upon the system properly.

We do have the leadership and barrels to expand but the controversial pork barrel and bureaucracy lead to its demise. That's the reason why the first Bush Administration killed the idea.

I-275westcoastfl

September 14th, 2009, 03:44 AM

ADCS

September 15th, 2009, 01:44 PM

We do have the leadership and barrels to expand but the controversial pork barrel and bureaucracy lead to its demise. That's the reason why the first Bush Administration killed the idea.

U.S. won't raise federal fuel taxes to the necessary maintenance level. That's the biggest reason. The second biggest reason is that states have ways of making federal highway dollars disappear once they reach the state coffers.

Stir

September 15th, 2009, 03:43 PM

TOUR OF WEST USA 2009 - Hoover Dam
When traveling to Las Vegas, we've never missed a visit to a nearby power plant on the Colorado River. Tou dam is a dam HOOVER (HOOVER DAM) on ROUTE 93 with the largest U.S. water area Lake Mead.

http://www.rychnovinky.cz/en/2076-tour-of-west-usa-2009-hoover-dam.html

dl3000

September 16th, 2009, 08:33 AM

U.S. won't raise federal fuel taxes to the necessary maintenance level. That's the biggest reason. The second biggest reason is that states have ways of making federal highway dollars disappear once they reach the state coffers.

So true

ChrisZwolle

September 16th, 2009, 11:47 AM

We just need a couple of bridges collapsing, if possible with a lot of deaths, to wake up the American public that a gas tax raise is just needed to fund the detoriating infrastructure. :ohno:

HAWC1506

September 17th, 2009, 12:55 AM

We just need a couple of bridges collapsing, if possible with a lot of deaths, to wake up the American public that a gas tax raise is just needed to fund the detoriating infrastructure. :ohno:

Oh whenever the next earthquake is, Washington is going to be hit haaaarrrrrd. The SR 99 viaduct is 40 years old and has been sinking ever since 2001. The SR 520 floating bridge is also about 40 years old and cracks every other month.

Neither will be replaced until 2015.

I-275westcoastfl

September 17th, 2009, 01:55 AM

You guys do realize that even if the gas tax was raised it might not change a thing, the fact is the government puts a lot of money elsewhere instead of into infrastructure. I remember hearing only a certain percent of the money collected from gas taxes actually goes back into infrastructure.

J N Winkler

September 17th, 2009, 05:16 AM

It's about 90%, which is better than in a lot of other places. The problem is that the gas tax is so low that new capital construction (which is needed in many areas that have significant inward population transfer) gets squeezed.

Tom 958

September 18th, 2009, 03:01 AM

Straightening a curve on I-59 in Laurel MS:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=31.685067,-89.137509&spn=0.004419,0.009055&t=k&z=17

I've only been there once, over thirty years ago and in the wee hours of the morning, but I'd always wondered why that part of I-59 was so narrow and curvy. Perhaps it was designed in the pre-Interstate era.

mattec

September 18th, 2009, 05:04 PM

or maybe they couldn't get the right of way for it

Tom 958

September 19th, 2009, 08:26 PM

or maybe they couldn't get the right of way for it

Maybe. I found some links on Wikipedia...

The S-curve was touted in 1956 to be the answer for a failing downtown economy. The three-quarter mile section of Interstate 59 instead became a dangerous, and sometimes deadly, section of roadway that attached itself to the city of Laurel in a detrimental way.

“At first all we had was a plan,” said Larry L. “Butch” Brown, executive director of the Mississippi Department of Transportation (MDOT). “But local government got together with their state and federal political leaders and with state agencies to find ways to get this project on the move. This reconstruction project is actually 15 years ahead of schedule, thanks in large part to the innovative financing available to city officials.”

Brown was speaking of MDOT’s HELP Program (Highway Enhancement through Local Partnerships) to secure $32 million to advance fund the project. HELP gives local governments the ability to issue bonds for large projects such as the S-curve reconstruction. Brown said that forward thinking boosted the project to the point it is today, in the actual construction phase.

1955: Construction began on relocated United States Highway 11 through Laurel. This project included earthwork and bridge construction.

1956: The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 provided a means of funding for the planned interstate system. U.S. Highway 11 in Laurel, already under construction, was redesignated as Interstate 59.

I can't believe that a local government had to chip in on the financing of an Interstate highway project! Isn't that what Interstate Maintenance funding is for?

Most rural Interstates parallel existing routes a few miles away, passing just outside of larger towns. But if the original intent of this section was to serve as a US 11 bypass with existing (or widened) US 11 continuing in use as the area's major through route, then closely skirting the edges of the mid '50's urbanized area in order to shorten the bypass' length would make a lot of sense.

Even without the S curve, this section has a surprisingly urban feel with its narrow median and dainty scale. If I drove this section of I-59 often, I would appreciate the break from driving on liberally designed but monotonous rural Interstate. :)

ChrisZwolle

September 19th, 2009, 08:39 PM

It's an interesting section of Interstate 59, I never really noticed it. Apparantly, they're straightening this one out.
http://i33.tinypic.com/2eol669.jpg

J N Winkler

September 20th, 2009, 02:44 AM

I can't believe that a local government had to chip in on the financing of an Interstate highway project! Isn't that what Interstate Maintenance funding is for?

No. What they are doing on I-59 is a relocation, for which NH money (all Interstates are on the National Highway System and NH funding is designed to pay for capital improvements on the NHS) would typically be used. IM money is intended to pay for resurfacing, restoration, rehabilitation, and reconstruction (4R) on the Interstate system, and I don't think straightening the curve qualifies as reconstruction because it involves an alignment change with new right-of-way.

BTW, IM money was originally only for 3R--the missing R being reconstruction.

Tom 958

September 20th, 2009, 06:04 PM

No. What they are doing on I-59 is a relocation, for which NH money (all Interstates are on the National Highway System and NH funding is designed to pay for capital improvements on the NHS) would typically be used. IM money is intended to pay for resurfacing, restoration, rehabilitation, and reconstruction (4R) on the Interstate system, and I don't think straightening the curve qualifies as reconstruction because it involves an alignment change with new right-of-way.

BTW, IM money was originally only for 3R--the missing R being reconstruction.

I'm not so sure about that. IM funding is pretty flexible, or at least it was when I was crossing swords with the FHWA ten years ago. This, for instance...
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7701/85316136hh3.jpg

...was funded mainly through IM.

Maybe I'm wrong about IM-- if so, so be it. But still, if you look at the scale of new highway construction in Mississippi over the last ten years, it appears (at least to me) that there's no real shortage of money. Was it really necessary to build this two-headed monster (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=34.850298,-90.208569&spn=0.064379,0.144882&z=13) as a temporary terminus for I-69?

The idea of using local funding to advance critical projects isn't a bad one-- I've advocated it myself in my own community, for this conversion of US 78 into an acceptable urban arterial (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=25876064&postcount=116), which was delayed for over a decade due to lack of a pathetically small amount of funding even as the county it's in raised and spent hundreds of millions in sales tax funds on other roads. But for an Interstate in a small town? That's just wrong.

ir desi

September 20th, 2009, 06:50 PM

You're trying to bring logic to interstate construction?! Take a peak at I-180 in IL.

ChrisZwolle

September 20th, 2009, 07:00 PM

I-180 does make some sense, there are no nearby bridges, and it was anticipated for a large steel plant. (which closed down the moment I-180 was constructed).

However, things have to be seen in perspective. Back in the 60's, it was feasible to construct Interstates for low traffic volumes, heck, Europe and the U.S. had many railroads in the 1800's that would now be considered unprofitable. Most of them closed even before the second world war.

J N Winkler

September 20th, 2009, 08:19 PM

Tom 958

September 20th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Tom 958--I have heard about IM money being used to fund rest area renovations, but not new capital construction. Are you sure the capacity-expanding portions of that project weren't paid for with NH money? From my experience (not crossing swords with FHWA, but looking at some FHWA program guidance and examining numerous highway construction plans) it seems to be quite common to build projects with NH-IM funding designations, where presumably part of the project is paid for with NH money, another part with IM money, the distinction being made on FHWA federal-aid vouchers.

A fair question, but, yes, I'm absolutely sure about it, because I questioned the funding mix in person and in writing repeatedly and in very explicit terms. I even tried to involved the GAO in the issue, though that went off the rails in a profoundly humorous way. :ohno:

FHWA's line was that the CD's were operational enhancements, not capacity additions, and that therefore they could be built with IM funding. Amusingly, their case was somewhat bolstered by the fact that one element of the project was a segment of CD road that was completely useless except as a construction detour-- that definitley wasn't a capacity addition! :nuts: Ditto the replacement of the old two lane interchange bridges with new ones having six to eight lanes.

There area couple of aspects of the situation I'd like to point out:

One, when I started dealing with this project in 1994. ISTEA was still a new thing. More importantly, President Clinton had been in office for less than two years, and attitudes at the FHWA's relevant offices were still very much stuck in the Reagan-Bush era. A fellow activist asked the head of the relevant FHWA office at the time what he thought FHWA's role was, and he replied that it was to get "their" (the states') funding to them as expeditiously as possible. So the mere fact that a certain funding allocation was agreed to by FHWA was rather irrelevant given what the agency considered as its duty.

Over time, Clinton-era perspectives took hold, with a strong assist from Atlanta's air quality crisis. But the pace was glacial, as was the undoing after Bush 43 came into office.

Two, at the time the funds provided to Georgia under IM were excessive-- major reconstructions of the kind that's now taking place on I-75 in south Georgia were simply not needed, and there was some scope for FHWA to use its judgement in allocating those funds to appropriate uses. Some could be reallocated to other funding categories; for the others, I suspect that FHWA applied a liberal interpretation to how IM funds could be used rather than attempting to assign them correctly. But I can't prove that.

He Named Thor

September 22nd, 2009, 07:22 AM

Took this one today. It's the Leo Frigo bridge, part of I-43 just before it meets US 41.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3943123919_ebe317fcb8_b.jpg

Being as tall as it is, you get a good view of the city, and on the other side Lake Michigan.

ChrisZwolle

September 22nd, 2009, 11:14 PM

Amazing landscapes along I-80 in southwestern Wyoming.
iqySFPEpqYc

Nexis

September 23rd, 2009, 01:10 AM

My trip home on Sunday from Jersey City.
Christopher Columbus Ave West : Jersey City Skyway ahead : I-78

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2623/3939599412_d7630089af_b.jpg

I-78 Turnpike Approach Road
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/3938821519_ba0004fe7f_b.jpg

Entering I-78
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/3939600740_81d73ea4a8_b.jpg

I-78 view Jersey City : Bergen-Layette Neighborhood
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2624/3938824881_4b03c49057_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2513/3939603340_15e70bd526_b.jpg

This is the second Welcome to New Jersey Sign , the first one is at the traffic light intersections after the Holland Tunnel , but this is the biggest sign.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/3938825401_b5a8cc2de7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3939604100_50b3190dd3_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3938826143_c9989690d7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2632/3939604584_e058f48318_b.jpg

Crossing Route 440
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3938826627_e4c38270ff_b.jpg

Newark Bay Bridge
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/3938827279_a95b7565d8_b.jpg

Looking North
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3938827475_ec8a7207b6_b.jpg

Looking back at the Jersey City / Manhattan Skyline
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3938827683_34309f040a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2509/3938828371_faa930ae4d_b.jpg

Looking North : you can see the Pulaski Skyway , Jersey City : Hackensack Waterfront Condos
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3938827873_60ce6e0b4d_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/3939606248_6a7b6180fd_b.jpg

City of Newark Skyline
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3938828221_9e89e080a7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/3938828625_a483ac7078_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/3938829397_7350646f30_b.jpg

Looking North CSX Railway Bridge
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3454/3939607246_03a201675e_b.jpg

Port Newark : Cargo Storage area
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/3938829599_94128b1564_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3939608094_d696ed9058_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3521/3938830049_be3b1a12f3_b.jpg

Port Newark : Carport
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/3939608542_6c7c338a2a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/3939608728_2a0a085260_b.jpg

New Jersey Turnpike Northbound Ramps
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/3939608918_47c1006162_b.jpg

Newark Airport Interchange I-78 Toll Plaza
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3938831035_3eb1a6c9e2_b.jpg

Incoming Plane
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2475/3938831325_8d8acea635_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3938831557_a6109fd822_b.jpg

US 1/9 Flyovers
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2489/3939610110_4c00b795fb_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3938832253_bb7238e538_b.jpg

Route 21 Expressway overpass
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/3938832437_cc73d3c3e8_b.jpg

I-78 Express Lanes in Newark
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3939611022_731f499b10_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3938832815_6a0774628d_b.jpg

Crossing the Northeast Corridor
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3938833057_95aae395b5_b.jpg

I-78 West Express Lanes
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3939611710_011faac764_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3938833565_d1337a3f9d_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3939612194_e0569a245f_b.jpg

Crossing the Garden State Parkway
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2496/3939612362_0d88a97bb9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/3939612512_18898f462b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3939612740_11da47e894_b.jpg

Thats it for now,i'll post I-287 later

~Corey

pwalker

September 23rd, 2009, 04:05 AM

Amazing landscapes along I-80 in southwestern Wyoming.
iqySFPEpqYc

That's near Green River, Wyoming. Notice all the trucks, and the lack of autos. That's 'cause hardly anyone lives in this area, but the truck route is a major east-west route between California and the midwest.

Ironic that the next posts are pics of the one of the most densely populated areas in the US, right after one of the least!

Coincidence probably, but a nice comparison!

Nexis

September 28th, 2009, 10:03 AM

New York Thruway East/Southbound I-287/87
Tappan Zee Bridge Eastbound

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/3960483960_47729a8e86_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/3959712245_15fbd0fee1_b.jpg

The Fog yesterday shurroded the Rockland County side Mountains with unique look to it:)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3467/3959712521_46eedb1f75_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2466/3960484988_6778194694_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3959713225_7be445e500_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/3959713437_c66d5542ca_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2481/3960485694_326b43e065_b.jpg

Looking South, on a clear day you can see the George Washington Bridge & upper Manhattan
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3959713925_0677d96770_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3959714285_af85402481_b.jpg

After lunch,we went back over the bridge:)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/3959714769_6e32a3ca3b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2538/3960486914_7c0256a0e6_b.jpg

Looking North at the Tarrytown Marina
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3960487128_4276afa903_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3960487346_44cdc29892_b.jpg

Looking North up the Hudson River
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/3959715659_46348df929_b.jpg

Eastbound Span view
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3516/3959715905_66319e2f03_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3960487922_5d4d0a87a0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2545/3959716301_0645f506f0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/3960488260_9d8468a22a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2426/3960488482_d005cf276b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3960488692_d7045d7538_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/3960488892_a1c3984dda_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/3959717423_4dffa6a4e3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2582/3960489284_d490d7373f_b.jpg

Exiting at Exit 10
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3959717939_4fe452537c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3495/3960489746_a195957940_b.jpg

On the ramp
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3959718331_faa57698b2_b.jpg

I hope you liked it, more will come later:)

~Corey

Bobek_Azbest

September 28th, 2009, 11:18 AM

Lovely weather. :lol:

Verso

September 28th, 2009, 07:56 PM

^^ I like driving in such a weather for some reason. Nice bridge again.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3495/3960489746_a195957940_b.jpgFunny left sign, like a hat. How is 'Nyack' pronounced? [nyaeck] or [niaeck / nayaeck] (if you know what I mean)?

ChrisZwolle

September 28th, 2009, 08:03 PM

Oh yeah that weird sign, I have seen it before. I believe there are also some boxed exit names in that area.

nerdly_dood

September 28th, 2009, 09:23 PM

I'd pronounce that "nyack"...

(if it helps, the Spanish spelling would be "ñac")

Verso

September 28th, 2009, 09:34 PM

^^ Ah, I know "ñ". :)

FM 2258

September 28th, 2009, 10:32 PM

Love that picture of Interstate 87.

So there's New York, Newark and Nyack....interesting how close those names could sound if spoken quickly.

Nexis

September 29th, 2009, 03:11 AM

I was born in Nyack on October 28,1990 :) its pronounced Ni-yack

HAWC1506

September 30th, 2009, 02:48 AM

^^I'm guessing it's a Native American name?

New York seems to use wider pavement markings than Washington state. Six inches I'm guessing?

Nexis

September 30th, 2009, 04:09 AM

Yes it is, Native American names can be found around the NYC region as well Scandinavia and Dutch names:) as for wider markings idk

xzmattzx

September 30th, 2009, 04:18 PM

I-99 construction and updates in northern Pennsyvania and New York, from Williamsport north to Painted Post:

I-99 construction in northern Lycoming County.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3180/img4395pb.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/144/img4396pb.jpg

Mountains in Tioga County.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2766/img4397pb.jpg

This exit, near Tioga for PA 287, used to be where the northernmost portion of the future I-99 expressway was completed. The expressway is now completed several miles more, into New York.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6201/img4403pb.jpg

Bypassing a factory near Lawrenceville, Pennsylvania, that the old US Route 15 used to go past.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3395/img4404pb.jpg

Bypassing houses near Lawrenceville.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3161/img4405pb.jpg

Entering New York on the new portion of the expressway.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7016/img4406pb.jpg

The northernmost completed section of the expressway is now just south of Lindley, New York. Work is being done to link this area to the expressway near Corning and Painted Post.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2888/img4407pb.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3725/img4408pb.jpg

The Green Shingles Inn, south of Lindley. In a couple years drivers will be bypassing this place.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4422/img4409pb.jpg

Scenery that won't be seen once the new section of expressway is built and I begin using that.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7156/img4410pb.jpg

ChrisZwolle

September 30th, 2009, 04:31 PM

They also recently broke grond for I-99 in New York.

ChrisZwolle

September 30th, 2009, 06:55 PM

First snow along I-80 just outside Salt Lake City:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2nauslg.jpg

:spin:

Edit:

I-15 Monida Pass, Montana:
http://i36.tinypic.com/e81xqv.jpg

Lost Trail Pass
http://i35.tinypic.com/vq4pio.jpg

I-84 southern Idaho
http://i36.tinypic.com/14jpz0x.jpg

xzmattzx

October 1st, 2009, 04:37 PM

They also recently broke grond for I-99 in New York.

Some of the future I-99 is completed in New York, as seen in my border picture, and pictures of the construction of the next section are also included.

zaphod

October 1st, 2009, 06:29 PM

Squiggles

October 1st, 2009, 06:40 PM

Interstate 70 & 55 interchange (St. Louis)

Took this one a few months ago.

http://img245.imageshack.us/i/dsc0057v.jpg

I doubt this will work, though. This is my first photo post attempt. Sorry.

Squiggles

October 1st, 2009, 06:48 PM

Interstate 70 through downtown St. Louis (taken in mid-July)

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3225/dsc0049ty.jpg

ChrisZwolle

October 1st, 2009, 06:53 PM

Interesting section of I-70, it's quite substandard for only a short section.

Squiggles

October 1st, 2009, 07:01 PM

Interesting section of I-70, it's quite substandard for only a short section.

No kidding. It's only 2X2 for part of its trip through downtown, so naturally it gets jammed horribly at rush hour. :ohno:

Anyway, here's some Chicago. This is the bowl interchange by downtown (I-90/94 meets I-290)
From the ground:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6453/dsc0037c.jpg

And from the air (Sears Tower.... or Willis, if you prefer)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8172/dsc0108v.jpg

mgk920

October 1st, 2009, 07:39 PM

^^
That's actually called the 'Circle' interchange (I-90/94/290/Congress Extension)

:colgate:

Mike

Squiggles

October 1st, 2009, 08:01 PM

^^
That's actually called the 'Circle' interchange (I-90/94/290/Congress Extension)

:colgate:

Mike

Oh you know what I mean. :tongue2:

mgk920

October 2nd, 2009, 05:05 AM

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/sep/29/southbound-indiana-57-traffic-diverting-new-stretc/

In an interesting twist, due to a nearby construction-related road closure, InDOT (Indiana Department of Transportation) is now detouring traffic off of a regular state highway onto the southbound side (in a 2x1 arrangement) of an approximately 2.5 km long under-construction segment of I-69, just north of I-64 at I-164 near Evansville, IN. When all of I-69 is completed in Indiana in a few years, I-69 is expected to replace I-164 south of I-64.

The entire highway on the section here will be complete sometime next year.

:dance:

Mike

Indictable

October 2nd, 2009, 10:26 AM

^^ I like driving in such a weather for some reason. Nice bridge again.

Funny left sign, like a hat. How is 'Nyack' pronounced? [nyaeck] or [niaeck / nayaeck] (if you know what I mean)?

I'm going to take a guess at US abbreviations and say that 'So Nyack' is South Nyack? Like So Cal?

Ni3lS

October 2nd, 2009, 07:23 PM

Im going to make some pics of the I25 and I70 soon. Im going to Denver and Breckenridge a lot so it shouldn't be a problem.. It's just that I think my hostparents will find it very strange when I make pictures of a highway out of their car lol.

Nexis

October 2nd, 2009, 07:35 PM

I'm going to take a guess at US abbreviations and say that 'So Nyack' is South Nyack? Like So Cal?

Yes in Some places , but most spell it out:)

ADCS

October 2nd, 2009, 11:28 PM

I don't get why it has that number?

Nowhere in New York is both east of 95 and north-south oriented for a two digit I-99? Why the fuck is it in Pennsylvania? If that's how highways are going to be numbered in the future then I propose I-35 in Austin be renamed I-420 because I say so :)

Now it would be neat if 101 became I-3 or an I-1 along the California coast. Though I suppose the Hawaii "interstates" have those numbers.

The politician (Bud Shuster) who lobbied hard for the route (since it's in what was his district) included wording in the legislation that the route be named Interstate 99.

It's basically a giant ego trip.

hoosier

October 3rd, 2009, 03:35 AM

mgk920

October 3rd, 2009, 03:45 AM

^^
(hehehehehe)

Unlike you, I make ZERO political statements when new I-route segments are completed. If it's a new chunk of interstate that has reached completion and I find out about it, I'll celebrate its opening in this forvm - regardless of where in the USA it is and whatever the events are that preceded its appearance. You'll find numerous postings of that kind from me in here over the past couple of years.

:cheers1:

Mike

AUchamps

October 3rd, 2009, 04:11 AM

I don't know why you are celebrating this. I-69 is an enormous boondoggle. The state doesn't even half any funding to finish the second half of the interstate, and that is assuming the pot of money it earmarked for the first three sections is enough to build them.
Um, "Major Moves"? My man Mitch has I-69 covered. Don't worry about the future, it's gonna be cheaper to convert 67 to Interstate between Bedford and Indy anyway.

Professor L Gee

October 3rd, 2009, 05:32 AM

I don't get why it has that number?

Nowhere in New York is both east of 95 and north-south oriented for a two digit I-99? Why the fuck is it in Pennsylvania? If that's how highways are going to be numbered in the future then I propose I-35 in Austin be renamed I-420 because I say so :)

Now it would be neat if 101 became I-3 or an I-1 along the California coast. Though I suppose the Hawaii "interstates" have those numbers.

Two reasons:

1) Ran out of numbers for that part of the grid.
2) The I-99 designation was written into law by then-Congressman Bud Shuster.

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 08:15 AM

HERE'S AN OLD PIC OF ME ON THE 10 FREEWAY IN LOS ANGELES.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9606/n576021757496401598.jpg

SOME OTHER LA PICS.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/INDIVIDUALS96/pics098.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/INDIVIDUALS96/cali/pics005.jpg

HAWC1506

October 3rd, 2009, 08:43 AM

^^Only in America.

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 10:22 AM

^^Only in America.

Not quite. Lowriding is real big in Canada and Japan as well. Here's some pics from Vancouver and Toronto. I have a lot of Vancouver pics on my pc, but don't feel like posting from there.

***MODS DON'T BAN ME.....I KNOW I'M ABOUT TO GO OFF TOPIC FOR A SECOND. I'M JUST TRYING TO SHOW MY FRIEND THAT LOWRIDING IS INTERNATIONAL NOW. TRIED TO KEEP A FREEWAY THEME. PLUS, SOMETHING TO LOOK AT****

http://www.layitlow.com/forums/uploads/post-9218-1130315309.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5858/post138491105568356.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8026/post138491105568399.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3713/post138491105568444.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/coco73chev7/camaro082.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/coco73chev7/camaro079.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/coco73chev7/camaro078.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/coco73chev7/camaro085.jpg

JAPAN

http://work.pitline.jp/images/DSC82.JPG

http://www.plaquewerkz.com/images/techniquesjapan/P003.jpg

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200812/22/65/c0177965_23442957.jpg
http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200812/22/65/c0177965_23455320.jpg

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200812/22/65/c0177965_23572428.jpg
http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200812/22/65/c0177965_2357396.jpg

http://www.plaquewerkz.com/images/techniquesjapan/P004.jpg

http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6526.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6539.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6544.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6547.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6560.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6565.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6564.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6598.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6599.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-04-08event/big/CIMG6609.JPG

http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-01-03event/big/CIMG5859.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-01-03event/big/CIMG5860.JPG
http://www.newjack-ac.com/img/gallery_photo/07-01-03event/big/CIMG5856.JPG

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 10:27 AM

If any of you ever visit LA, the highways here are real nice. The 710 freeway has a lot of potholes in the far right lanes b/c of heavy truck traffic. I've banged my rims more than once on that highway.

Rebasepoiss

October 3rd, 2009, 10:34 AM

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 10:55 AM

^^ Since this is a "United States Interstate Highways" thread, we expect photos of highways not cars. And the main topic is highways not cars. If you want to show your car to others and talk about that kind of stuff, I suggest you to visit www.automotiveforums.com or any other auto-oriented web site.

I know. Thats why I placed the disclaimer about being banned and going off-topic. I was simply trying to inform the other poster; thats all. I'm on another forum for the car, but it was posted b/c I seen folks posting pics of the I-10 in FLA, so I posted an interesting pic of I-10 on the west coast and of the car pool viaduct on the 110 freeway through South LA. Thought the cars made the pics more interesting. Apparently not. Didn't mean to upset anyone. :(

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 11:02 AM

I've noticed that Seattle, Portland, and LA (not sure about the Bay Area or SD) all have 405 freeways that essentially bypass the city centers. Is that a west coast thing?

FM 2258

October 3rd, 2009, 11:10 AM

I've noticed that Seattle, Portland, and LA (not sure about the Bay Area or SD) all have 405 freeways that essentially bypass the city centers. Is that a west coast thing?

Interstate 5 goes to the heart of the city while 405 is the "bypass." Almost like any other three digit interstate that starts with an even number in a big city.

ChrisZwolle

October 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 11:38 AM

Interstate 5 goes to the heart of the city while 405 is the "bypass." Almost like any other three digit interstate that starts with an even number in a big city.

Interesting info about the three digit highways starting with even numbers.

FM 2258

October 3rd, 2009, 11:39 AM

405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.

In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)

True....the only place I know of that acts as a bypass is when drivers are going from Austin to Corpus Christi through San Antonio. IH 35 to IH 410 then south on IH 37. Much faster than 35 to 37 since Interstate 410 is pretty much rural on the southeastern side of San Antonio.

http://i36.tinypic.com/nzm5go.jpg

FCE

October 3rd, 2009, 11:42 AM

405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.

In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)

You're right about the 405 being congested. I use to have to commute through the 405/101 interchange in LA....it sucked. I ended up taking a route that shot north around that interchange and was at least 13 miles longer, but would get me to my destination 15 minutes sooner. Go figure.

ChrisZwolle

October 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM

Interesting info about the three digit highways starting with even numbers.

Even numbers = beltway / bypass
Odd numbers = spur

Nexis

October 4th, 2009, 03:59 AM

Entering I-87 South @ The Newburgh Interchange

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/3892886246_0bfc217386_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2649/3892101179_5b5fe36eb7_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3450/3892101707_db0b575295_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/3892100553_d3a9bc671c_b.jpg

Approaching the Harrimen Toll Plaza Construction site
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/3892890920_8e09b99a55_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/3892103649_1c52a23d04_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3892891448_1759cb6bde_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/3892103053_ba504b7dc3_b.jpg

Harrimen Toll Plaza , under Reconstruction
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2639/3892103793_91ec18a539_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3892104185_a2a47eb063_b.jpg

After the Toll Site
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/3892893462_c0d6e72182_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3892104523_504dc93415_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2467/3892893306_2b28acca8a_b.jpg

Mileage Sign on I-87 South
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3892894936_205f955d38_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/3892895180_5c2f692084_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3892106131_a8a7715438_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2513/3892105311_02e01471e3_b.jpg

Sloatsburg Service area
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3892897274_229883e819_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/3892897476_0409976819_b.jpg

Approaching Exit 15A in Hillburn,NY, note the Japanese Restaurant on the hill.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/3892109399_4b61afc2d0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3892898324_020c03cc68_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2626/3892110039_8e12201131_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3892110165_40ecfa7e34_b.jpg

Approaching the I-287 / I-87 Interchange in Suffern,NY and Southern part of the Interchange is in Mahwah,NJ

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3892110305_6b4c70fbe8_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3892899232_aa23a8d0b3_b.jpg

I-287 south entering New Jersey
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/3892112767_80a19de88d_b.jpg

Bonus Images from the Japanese Restaurant windows
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/3909468571_d38bc3f377_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3910251754_d546efc302_b.jpg

I hope you guys all liked it, more to come soon:)

~Corey