I think you mean 5 is well EAST of the bay area. And 99 is a state route because the state funds and maintains it exclusively. Interstates are funded by the federal government. How the road is built is not relevant to its designation unless you are comparing US Highways with Interstates.

Not true. The system that is relevant for federal funding is the National Highway System, which comprises the Interstates and select additional important through routes. In California, the main north-south routes in the state--US 101, I-5, SR 99--are all on the NHS. All NHS routes are eligible for federal assistance for capital improvements at an 80% federal, 20% state ratio. The main advantage Interstates have over other NHS routes is that they also attract Interstate Maintenance (IM) funding for resurfacing, rehabilitation, restoration, and reconstruction at a 90% federal, 10% state ratio (IM money is not supposed to be used to add new capacity, but an exception where the rules seem to have been bent--if not broken outright--has been presented either upthread or in the parallel thread dealing with US non-Interstates).

California could very well forgo federal funding for SR 99 improvements, but this would not be because the road is not eligible for federal funding. In a populous state like California, the projects that need doing collectively cost far more than the federal apportionment for highway work in California and so many projects have to be done with 100% state funding even though they are eligible for federal assistance.

WA DOT:



http://i33.tinypic.com/2v30djt.jpg

Actually, there are east-west detours, but I have found WSDOT discourages "announcing" them as they don't want to overload farm roads.

Dust storms in Eastern Washington tend to be short-lived, and that could play into it.

As for I-405 in the Seattle area, yes, it was originally designed as a bypass, but with the rapid growth on the Seattle eastside, the freeway is no longer considered a bypass. It is its own corridor, just as busy as I-5. Some have argued for a a further east bypass (605), but nimbys and environmentalists will never let it happen.

Why the 'half-staff' flags?

Also, outside of the NYC area, New York State is about as rugged and rural is it can get anywhere in the USA east of the Mississippi River - and some parts are really REMOTE. Recall that the Olympic WINTER Games were held in New York State in both 1932 and 1980 (Lake Placid, NY - located deep in the Adirondacks, in the northeastern part of NYS)

Mike
I don't remeber why they were, i think someone politician died , but i don't exactly know:ohno:

Winter weather in the northern rockies and northwestern High Plains:

Some cameras along I-90 in Wyoming:
http://i36.tinypic.com/29xaj68.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2mfc3ea.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/vhuf0i.jpg

I-90 in Montana, just north of the Wyoming state line.
http://i33.tinypic.com/2z4igr5.jpg

I-25 at Monida Pass.
http://i33.tinypic.com/11822qb.jpg

Interstate 7 would make sense for California 99.

I disagree because this hypothetical interstate would spur off and rejoin the same interstate, similar to the I-35 split in Dallas/Fort Worth and Minneapolis/St. Paul

I-5E and I-5W. But I don't think AASHTO will agree on this...

I disagree because this hypothetical interstate would spur off and rejoin the same interstate, similar to the I-35 split in Dallas/Fort Worth and Minneapolis/St. Paul

Like I-12, I-57 and I-94? :banana: Besides, Eye Seven rolls off the tongue. I-5E doesn't. :lol:

Hey, Chris-- I'm having trouble finding it, but that aerial photo of the I-87/I-287/SR 17 interchange that you posted in Guess the Highway would make a fine complement to Nexis' ground level photos. :)

Entering I-80 from the from the Garden State Parkway
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3981980908_b40bd740e4_b.jpg

I-80 Westbound
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3495/3981981134_a3a45b6c8a_b.jpg

Crossing Route 20 in Paterson
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/3981221397_64076c65a3_b.jpg

City of Paterson Exits on I-80
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/3981221587_64ee94ca7c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3981221809_546b6f0871_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2629/3981982268_f8a65b5dbc_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2475/3981222099_2e5bc80c5f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2520/3981982982_362335b380_b.jpg

Totowa & Wayne Exits on I-80
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2466/3981983310_70233316b9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3981223119_33f4e7b147_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/3981983592_8aa7208b98_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3981223461_b10faaefc0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/3981983964_43caf3a7e0_b.jpg

I-80 @ Exit 52
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/3981984304_cd8e2bf629_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/3981984464_2f39fc3d1a_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3981984650_7d07fc2f73_b.jpg

Skipping to after Morristown, because i didn't want to use all the battery up.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2554/3981224635_0ac83f5e66_b.jpg

I-80 @ Exit 39 : US 46 to NJ 53 & Denville NJ Transit Train station
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/3981224869_acf7cd096b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2585/3981225625_5f161e81e6_b.jpg

I-80 @ The Dover Exit
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2547/3981225915_bc41aa29a6_b.jpg

I-80 @ The Lake Hopatcong Exits, New Jersey's Largest Lake
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2472/3981226169_c25844cf8a_b.jpg

I-80 @ NJ 15 Interchange
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/3981986570_38bddd035d_b.jpg

Rock Blasting site next to I-80
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/3981226649_2b41027940_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3981986964_022327d370_b.jpg

I-80 near Netcong,NJ
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2508/3981227005_c72980c57a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/3981987406_cac04388f9_b.jpg

I-80 near Hackettstown,NJ
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3981987566_5f420e1c6f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2653/3981987720_738cac7d26_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/3981987836_02b6281a9a_b.jpg

I-80 @ Exit 25
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3981227861_44e60259de_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2573/3981988160_87dd25acc5_b.jpg

I-80 in Western Rural Jersey
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2429/3981988374_bed3e1cedc_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3981228515_e621bba458_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/3981228701_9a8892ac9c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3981228867_02f5837157_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/3981229065_9453a77ae6_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2554/3981989766_39b696e3b0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/3981229907_ab236fa0eb_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3981990462_19409ec17f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3981230831_322a37bb0f_b.jpg

I-80 @ Exit 12
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3981991202_06e245a694_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3981991378_f9b97c93f6_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3981991520_debfb5fc7f_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3494/3981233255_ef4063794f_b.jpg

I-80 nearing Columbia,NJ
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2602/3981993552_46804af030_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/3981993790_4c5b970d52_b.jpg

getting a bit to eat off I-80
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2461/3981233843_c673667e3e_b.jpg

back on I-80 : Lackawanna Railway Bridge , it will be a functioning railway in 10 yrs
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3981994172_bd2356f739_b.jpg

A Roadside memorial
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2633/3981994434_c25b0084a8_b.jpg

I-80 in the Delaware Water Gap
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3981994868_b77e3a8d77_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/3981235275_a0c386d6a4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/3981235497_725d0f0a35_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2450/3981235679_0721fc138f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3981235861_4727394e0e_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3981236035_f9753c0428_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2597/3981236349_9d5ec1121b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3981996816_20113f6008_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2443/3981996996_c9cd70fb67_b.jpg

I-80 @ Exit 1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3452/3981997244_3f79a5bcc5_b.jpg

Thats it for now, i'm a bit backed up now with all these photos so i will post more tomorrow:)

~Corey

"Del water gap"

What an horrible control "city". I must admit there isn't much worth mentioning along I-80 in Pennsylvania (Cleveland is probably too far to sign here already). Stroudsburg, Scranton or Williamsport would be better control cities imo.

Its not a Control city, its the first exit after the Bridge and thats the Town name:)

Yes it is, it's the only through destination signed from Paterson westbound.

Its also a major Recreational area , so its a great idea for a control city , everyone knows it.:)

I-5E and I-5W. But I don't think AASHTO will agree on this...

Nah people would be confused by thinking east and west were the directions of the road since most aren't aware of the significance of an odd numbered road being north-south or at least don't think about it. I'm thinking 99 would be I-205 like 215 in Riverside County bypasses 15.

Actually, there are east-west detours, but I have found WSDOT discourages "announcing" them as they don't want to overload farm roads.

Dust storms in Eastern Washington tend to be short-lived, and that could play into it.

As for I-405 in the Seattle area, yes, it was originally designed as a bypass, but with the rapid growth on the Seattle eastside, the freeway is no longer considered a bypass. It is its own corridor, just as busy as I-5. Some have argued for a a further east bypass (605), but nimbys and environmentalists will never let it happen.

I-605 was killed off a few years ago. If the SR99 deep bored tunnel is constructed, it would probably help alleviate some I-5 traffic, because the tunnel will be even more limited-access than the current viaduct.

I-405 is being expanded throughout pretty much its entire corridor. The plan is for adding two lanes in each direction I think. Bellevue's growth in the past few years have outpaced road capacity. I think that in conjunction with the large highway expansion, there needs to be rapid transit as well. Thankfully, it's been approved...but won't be coming until 2023...

Btw, this is my absolute favorite:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3981990462_19409ec17f_b.jpg

That is very European looking. Whoever designed and did quality control for that stretch of highway deserves a raise. Wish we had roads like that in Washington.

I don't remeber why they were, i think someone politician died , but i don't exactly know:ohno:
Ted Kennedy?

Ted Kennedy?

Not back in June.

Probably a state politician, maybe a police officer killed in the line of duty.

"Del water gap"

What an horrible control "city". I must admit there isn't much worth mentioning along I-80 in Pennsylvania (Cleveland is probably too far to sign here already). Stroudsburg, Scranton or Williamsport would be better control cities imo.

I-80's control city in Youngstown, Ohio is New York City.

Instead of 'Del Water Gap', I'd use 'Pennsylvania' as I-80's westbound control in New Jersey. When I was out there about ten years ago, I had no idea what it meant.

:nuts:

Mike

^^ That's a valid point. "everybody knows the Delaware water gap". Yes, everybody from around that area knows that. But signage is meant for those unknown to the area, so also drivers from Texas, Hawaii or Swaziland. That's why you need to put major cities on the signage.

I heard about some stories about people driving around the U.S. with one fold-out map of the entire country and totally got lost. They expect to see signs to Chicago and Miami in New York City. Especially if you're from Europe, it might be a good idea to prepare a bit before driving in the U.S. for the first time, since the signage is completely different from what you see in Europe.

^^ That's a valid point. "everybody knows the Delaware water gap". Yes, everybody from around that area knows that. But signage is meant for those unknown to the area, so also drivers from Texas, Hawaii or Swaziland. That's why you need to put major cities on the signage.

I heard about some stories about people driving around the U.S. with one fold-out map of the entire country and totally got lost. They expect to see signs to Chicago and Miami in New York City. Especially if you're from Europe, it might be a good idea to prepare a bit before driving in the U.S. for the first time, since the signage is completely different from what you see in Europe.
Once you've been to the Delaware Water Gap, you'll never forget its natural beauty.

Come on, you have to admit that much.

^^ That's a valid point. "everybody knows the Delaware water gap". Yes, everybody from around that area knows that. But signage is meant for those unknown to the area, so also drivers from Texas, Hawaii or Swaziland. That's why you need to put major cities on the signage.

I heard about some stories about people driving around the U.S. with one fold-out map of the entire country and totally got lost. They expect to see signs to Chicago and Miami in New York City. Especially if you're from Europe, it might be a good idea to prepare a bit before driving in the U.S. for the first time, since the signage is completely different from what you see in Europe.
I think that the big navigational difficulty for a first-time visitor from outside of North America, especially, it seems, with Europeans, is that they come with absolutely no idea of how truly *VAST* the USA is. No, you cannot do NYC one day, Chicago the next followed by Los Angeles on the third day on a driving roadtrip. Most USA states are of similar geographic size to most entire European countries. Belgium is of a similar geographic size to Maryland, for example.

:nuts:

Mike

I think you're right there. My guess is many people from Europe think Chicago is halfway from New York to San Francisco, while you're in fact only at one quarter of the trip.

Seattle - Boston is the same distance as Amsterdam - Gibraltar AND BACK!

Also, people have no idea how big Alaska actually is;

http://www.yachtalaska.com/photos/maps/ASA_usa_alaska.jpg

Once you've been to the Delaware Water Gap, you'll never forget its natural beauty.

Come on, you have to admit that much.

Exactly my point , its impossible to forget the stunning beauty to the area. and the majority of ppl know its New Jersey / Pennsylvania so ic no problem with it. Why would u put Chicago on it? Majority of the ppl who I-80 don't go to Chicago , they go to the many university cities n towns before it:)

Also, people have no idea how big Alaska actually isUmm, which people? It's widely known (among Europeans) that Alaska is by far the biggest US state.

People probably know that it's the biggest state, but they don't know how big it is (2 times larger than Texas and bigger than California, Texas and Montana combined ;))

Yeah Alaska is HUGE! I tend to underestimate how big Europe is myself.

And here is a nice comparison of much of Europe with USA.

http://goeurope.about.com/od/europeanmaps/l/bl-country-size-comparison-map.htm

And while we're at it, Australia is big.
http://dommy.com/az2nzau/fotos/images/canberra/au_usa.jpg

And while we're at it, Australia is big.

Hehe, another nice one, I heard some people say "well, that's a coincidence, two earthquakes close to eachother" (about the Sumatra and Samoa recent earthquakes). Both epicenters are over 9,000 kilometers apart.

I think we have a tendency to misjudge distances more and more the farther the place is from where we travel regularly. I live in Massachusetts, and used to completely misjudge the size of Vermont. After all, its Brattleboro, Bellows Falls, White River Junction, Burlington, and you're at the Canadian border. How long can it take? Now I know it really can be a solid 4 hours to cross a state that looks like it should take 2.5 hrs, being similar in northern length to the width of Mass. As you go further from your home, you simply know fewer individual places along the route, and believe you can hop between the places you do know. In a sense, its parochial.

Great video (though a bit slow, I admit) of the Dan Ryan Expressway through Chicago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSjqNuQWvAs&feature=related

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7070/usaalaskaeuropemedium18.jpg

Um, "Major Moves"? My man Mitch has I-69 covered. Don't worry about the future, it's gonna be cheaper to convert 67 to Interstate between Bedford and Indy anyway.

Major Moves allocated $700 million to I-69, which isn't even enough to build the first half of the interstate. The state is already cutting corners to reduce costs such as paving with asphalt instead of concrete, narrowing shoulders, and not building certain interchanges, and possibly not building a rest area.

And SR 37, not 67, connects Bedford with Indianapolis.

^^
(hehehehehe)

Unlike you, I make ZERO political statements when new I-route segments are completed. If it's a new chunk of interstate that has reached completion and I find out about it, I'll celebrate its opening in this forvm - regardless of where in the USA it is and whatever the events are that preceded its appearance. You'll find numerous postings of that kind from me in here over the past couple of years.

:cheers1:

Mike

Unlike you, I-69 is a personal issue for me since it will cut through my city of residence. Thus I do have a strong opinion on it.

405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.

In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)

Actually, I-287 is a great way to bypass New York if you are headed to New England from Pennsylvania (and points west) and vice versa.

When my family drives to Massachusetts from Indiana, they always take I-287 around New York.

a short slice of a 2 mile I-84 Section in Pennsylvania and New York

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3982089792_9fa0cceea7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3981329659_0e978c8f92_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3422/3981329991_33bd806c0d_b.jpg

Crossing the Delaware River into New York

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/3982090446_2f39d3a650_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/3982090640_06dc1a8d53_b.jpg

Exiting @ Exit 1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3982090910_714cf057cb_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/3982091362_26d71f2f48_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3981331305_a6f1bb6f45_b.jpg


Later that day on NJ Entering I-287 North in Butler,NJ

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3982110448_f3c872f616_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/3982110622_9dd09eaa9a_b.jpg

I-287 @ Exit 53 in Pompton Plains

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/3981350345_c1b97ea59d_b.jpg

Wanaque River Valley Viaduct

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/3982111008_b2b2a60e4c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3982111170_449eaa79e4_b.jpg

Looking South
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3982111328_e696236916_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/3981351007_c757bbf5a0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/3982111668_c8916eb0ae_b.jpg

Looking South
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3982111852_2d2dce7e6d_b.jpg

I-287 in Mahwah,New Jersey
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3982112020_0f2b102767_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2650/3982112228_b85f6f3bce_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2543/3981352109_fb7144c898_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2629/3982112798_d5da46d705_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2434/3981352461_9f6abd53db_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/3981352673_e1d6f59d27_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/3982113340_231c0f475a_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3483/3982113704_940bc6920e_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2504/3981353439_c3f691cbaf_b.jpg

Crossing the Mahwah River
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/3982114156_0b1ec3c1f4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2512/3982114378_d788808218_b.jpg

Sheraton Cross Roads
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3982114748_fc7f42398f_b.jpg

Entering New York State and The NY Thruway Interchange in Suffern,NY

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/3981354493_beca3b6bc7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2492/3981354779_34eb9efa62_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3981355055_e662b22846_b.jpg

Crossing the Mahwah River again

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2672/3982115826_b984d44cf3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2602/3982116090_f5e53250a1_b.jpg

Northbound NY Thruway Toll Gate

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2593/3982116252_4c4da5ba4e_b.jpg

Exiting at the Garden State Parkway

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3981356037_4240118e75_b.jpg

Garden State Parkway / Thruway Extension Southbound

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3981356361_73d40bfaa3_b.jpg

Last Exit in New York , all Trucks must exit because the Garden State Parkway doesn't allow them , except on the southern part

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2496/3981356525_92f1a8a98a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3982117200_48c7e53a00_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/3982117442_15d12eb1e2_b.jpg

Welcome to New Jersey

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/3981357193_34e694629d_b.jpg

Thats it for now, i'll post so more later i hope you enjoined:)

~Corey

Thanks for the pics, nexis! Great stuff, as usual. :cheers:


A few pics of the NJ Turnpike I found on the web:

http://img2.allposters.com/images/NGSPOD/123939-FB.jpg

http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2009/07/large_nj%20turnpike%20exit%209%20east%20brunswick.JPG

http://www.urban-photos.com/gallery/albums/city_galleries/newyork/nyc_9833.jpg

Our Interstates don't actually look that bad.Although not as nice and beautiful as European motorways, I think it gets the job and let's face it, functionality and getting the job done is more important than eye candy.However, out here in California our freeway signs are old pieces of shit from the 60's and 70's.:ohno:

i agree with you , Highways are for Point A to Point B , not for Eye Candy which can be disreacting.

ironically i was on the New Jersey Turnpike Yesterday

I-78 in Jersey City : New Jersey Turnpike Newark Bay Ext.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/4003691074_c40be0c6c5_b.jpg

Jersey City Skyline for the Jersey City Skyway , note ony 4 of those bdgs are NYC

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2667/4003691376_7a2b107685_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2529/4002929507_12442d2716_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/4002929699_7f2cd5a2ed_b.jpg

Uptown / Journal SQ Skyline

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/4002930305_7531f2f7db_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2581/4003692632_8425817e30_b.jpg

I-78 West in Bayonne

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3448/4003692772_38caa4641a_b.jpg

Newark Bay Bridge : I-78

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/4003693036_e6c4f54c15_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4003693194_64a170fa5d_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2648/4002931433_62d29c67e8_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/4002931567_80d6bc7dc9_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3471/4002931811_1c66bb1b9d_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/4003693964_cc5ab04148_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/4002932111_fcea483e51_b.jpg

City of Newark Skyline & Port

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Approaching I-95 : New Jersey Turnpike Interchange

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New Jersey Turnpike North : I-95

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Looking at the Newark Bay Bridge

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Pulaski Skyway

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incoming plane

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New Jersey Industrial Lands

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New Jersey Turnpike Near Exit 15W

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Jersey City & Manhattan Skyline

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Secacuse Junction Complex Exit 15X

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Train Headed into NYC Penn Station

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NJ Transit Bi-level headed into NYC Penn Station

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Secacuse Eastern Spur Toll Gate

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Cars Waiting to pay Cash or get a Ticket

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NJ Turnpike @ Exit 15W : Route 3

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I-95 @ I-80 interchange

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I-80 begin in Teaneck,NJ

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City of Hackensack & River

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Thats it for the interstates, more will come later for non interstates.

~Corey

Nice shots.

Another point I would like to make to these Europeans.I know you guys think you are all that, but you have to consider the size of the system.Considering that California or Texas alone is bigger than the average European country, you have to take into account that it takes shitload of money to maintain a system of this scale.On average, Germany can proably spend 20 times more money per mile(or km) of road than the US ever could, as Germany's money doesn't have to worry about 70,000 km of Freeway.Do you have any idea how much it would cost to place all those fancy electronic overhead signs on *every single* stretch of interstate?We would go broke.I doubt that any of you Europeans could do better if your country was as big as the US.

Ok, I'm done.

Comparing 70,000 kms of the U.S. Interstate system with Germany, which is the size of one or two states, isn't really that fair. Germany is somewhere between New Mexico and Montana in size and has 12.500 kilometers of Autobahn. Spain is between California and Texas and has 13.500 kilometers of Autopista. France is about the size of Texas with 12.500 kilometers of Autoroute.

Plus, you think we don't have electronic signs in Europe?

Size doesn't matter. The U.S. has low gas and auto taxes, that's why they can't maintain the road system. European countries receive about 4 times more in road-related taxes than they spend.

Comparing 70,000 kms of the U.S. Interstate system with Germany, which is the size of one or two states, isn't really that fair. Germany is somewhere between New Mexico and Montana in size and has 12.500 kilometers of Autobahn. Spain is between California and Texas and has 13.500 kilometers of Autopista. France is about the size of Texas with 12.500 kilometers of Autoroute.

Plus, you think we don't have electronic signs in Europe?

Size doesn't matter. The U.S. has low gas and auto taxes, that's why they can't maintain the road system. European countries receive about 4 times more in road-related taxes than they spend.
Remember, too, that Germany also has just over 82M people inhabiting that land area that is between Montana and New Mexico in physical size, whereas in 2000, the US Census Bureau found all of 935,670 people living in all of Montana.

:eek:

Mike

Chris is right about the fuel taxes, but that is not the whole story. Many states have gone without a fuel tax increase since the mid-1990's, while the federal fuel tax has not been increased since 1993. Since that time inflation, which tends to be higher in the heavy construction sector than in the economy as a whole, has eroded the purchasing power of fuel tax revenues. As a result of spikes in the prices of steel, cement, and oil after 2004--caused by robust demand, particularly in China and the other "Asian tiger" economies, and aggravated by extremely high crude prices in 2008--many states are now in a position where they can no longer do upkeep on their existing systems, let alone consider capacity expansions. If it were not for the stimulus program, which for many states represents unanticipated "free money" to build projects they had sitting on the shelf, highway construction in the US would be in the middle of a bad slump.

Because European countries collect far more in fuel tax than they spend on their highways, they have far more scope to eat cost increases arising from inflation and project changes before they reach a point where the highway system receives net subsidy from general government revenues. Even so, construction spending in Europe has been squeezed also: new construction project advertisements in Spain are almost at a standstill now, for example.

To add on, yes Germany spends far more money on maintenance, (I heard about $300,000 annually per mile). But, Germany also has much higher quality control than the U.S. In fact, I would say most European countries have higher quality control. Also, they have more rules/regulations regarding land usage.

Because of that, I find it hard to claim that if European countries were as big as the U.S., their highways would be as crappy as ours. They would probably take a more efficient approach such as not building a highway through a city center, and balancing transporation modes (like mass transit, etc.).

The fact is that most Americans hate regulations and do only what's needed, and if we can do the least amount of work, we will probably do the least amount of work, simply because expectations just aren't that high.

It's not exactly the best mindset to have, but we'll just have to live with it.

Here are some shots taken of West Interstate 10 and U.S. 90 on the evening of October 11th, 2009 in some dreary weather. Last shot is a rural shot of Interstate 10 at the U.S. 90 and F.M. 3538 exit.

Too bad they don't sign U.S. 90 on the Katy Freeway.

Entering from IH 610:
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After driving a while Interstate 10 west goes from a million lanes down to two....
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^^Wow nice pictures! That is one wide highway. When was it built?

Too much concrete IMO...

Wow those are great pics, I love and miss Texas highways, truly the best I've been on in the US.

Interstate 280 in Essex County,New Jersey

I-280 East in Orange,NJ

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I-280 East in Newark,New Jersey

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Exit 15 & Broad Street NJ Transit Station

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Passaic River Bridge

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City of Newark Skyline

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I-280 East in Harrison,New Jersey

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PATH Train Yard / Facility

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Thats it for now more will come soon , i hope you liked:)

~Corey

^^Wow nice pictures! That is one wide highway. When was it built?

Too much concrete IMO...

The Katy was rebuild until 2008 I believe. It was only 6 lanes originally. Now up to 16 mainline lanes.

Love the way American's build freeways/highways. Australia could definitely learn a thing or two.

Love the way American's build freeways/highways. Australia could definitely learn a thing or two.

Totally, we could have a NJ Turnpike toolbooth setup. Atleast they made the Gateway in Brisbane free-flow tolling.


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Horray.

^^ Yep they did. Also many of our motorways are being upgraded (Gateway & Ipswich Motorways and Centenary Highway) plus 2 tunnels at the moment.

Like someone else said on this site, - Brisbane is a construction site at the moment.

That was the old New Jersey Turnpike Western Spur Toll Gate....
This is the new one, built in 2000-2001 i think , i'm quiet sure on that though:nuts:

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Cash tolls are something of the past anyway. Texas has planned to reconstruct all cash toll plazas into Zipcash or TollTags.

E-ZPass lol.

FasTrak FTW.

Although I agree, too much concrete.I think that's the main reason why our freeways look more crappy than they actually are.Concrete is just plain ugly.

Although I agree, too much concrete.I think that's the main reason why our freeways look more crappy than they actually are.Concrete is just plain ugly.
The problem with concrete is not only that it is ugly. Concrete is designed to last longer than asphalt, significantly longer. When asphalt reaches its age limits, suddenly a lot of potholes and cracks appear, so the state governments are forced to deal with this. In case of concrete, it degrades much slowly with time, so often the states are not willing to spend money on it right away, instead waiting for up to several decades before dealing with it. This was (still is?) the case with I-80 in California near Nevada border. I posted pictures of the huge cracks on that motorway back in 2007. When you drive on that stretch of I-80, you literally become concerned for the well-being of your suspension. Honestly, I have only seen this bad situation in my home country of Ukraine/Russia. In my opinion, it is unacceptable. I don't care what they do - raise taxes or charge toll, but fix this damn thing! :ohno:

American public is against fuel taxes, but at the same time they want well-maintained highways. Well, you can't have it both ways.

Well no one wants to get charged taxes, number one. Two, gas prices are already as high as it is, the government starts charging fuel taxes then there will be no one left to use the freeways in the first place, as no one will drive their car anymore, and then if no one is driving anymore, why maintain the freeways?I dunno, you Europeans paying $7 bucks per gallon is insane.Fuck that.I would definitely stop driving and take a train/bus by that point or get an alternative fuel car.Also, I doubt any American is willing to pay nearly 10 bucks a gallon just to make freeways look prettier.

Well no one wants to get charged taxes, number one. Two, gas prices are already as high as it is, the government starts charging fuel taxes then there will be no one left to use the freeways in the first place, as no one will drive their car anymore, and then if no one is driving anymore, why maintain the freeways?I dunno, you Europeans paying $7 bucks per gallon is insane.Fuck that.I would definitely stop driving and take a train/bus by that point or get an alternative fuel car.Also, I doubt any American is willing to pay nearly 10 bucks a gallon just to make freeways look prettier.

I don't think you're getting the point. The amount of tax dollars that the U.S. has been receiving is inadequate for the amount of roads that we are trying to maintain. Do you really think we can sustain our highway network?

And the other side is to tax fuel so people will stop driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack. And because less people will be using the cars, we don't have to focus as much on highway expansion, but rather highway maintenance.

Higher tax = more funds
Higher tax = less cars
More funds = higher-quality maintenance and construction
Less cars = less wear and tear for the highway
Less cars = less capacity needed,
less capacity = lower maintenance costs
Lower maintenance costs = more funds for public transport

And so on...

I don't think you're getting the point.
I'm pretty sure I got the point.Higher gas taxes is good.

The amount of tax dollars that the U.S. has been receiving is inadequate for the amount of roads that we are trying to maintain.
No Shit, Sherlock.

Do you really think we can sustain our highway network?
Our roads are still standing aren't they?

And the other side is to tax fuel so people will stop driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack. And because less people will be using the cars, we don't have to focus as much on highway expansion, but rather highway maintenance.
Woah.I don't know about you, but I like being able to choose when and more importantly where I want to go.Can't do that with a train or bus.Instead I have to stand out in cold for an hour.Fuck that.


Higher tax = more funds
Higher tax = less cars
More funds = higher-quality maintenance and construction
Less cars = less wear and tear for the highway
Less cars = less capacity needed,
less capacity = lower maintenance costs
Lower maintenance costs = more funds for public transport

And so on...
I understand that, and good points.Sometimes taking public transportation is indeed better than taking a car (*cough* Downtown LA *cough*) but if I'm going to visit someone or go to the store I'm not going through the bullshit of taking a bus.

I'm pretty sure I got the point.Higher gas taxes is good.


No Shit, Sherlock.


Our roads are still standing aren't they?


Woah.I don't know about you, but I like being able to choose when and more importantly where I want to go.Can't do that with a train or bus.Instead I have to stand out in cold for an hour.Fuck that.



I understand that, and good points.Sometimes taking public transportation is indeed better than taking a car (*cough* Downtown LA *cough*) but if I'm going to visit someone or go to the store I'm not going through the bullshit of taking a bus.

Our roads are standing, but they're on the verge of collapsing. By the time they do disintegrate, we'll be all screwed because one, we won't have roads that are safe to drive on, and two, we won't have the money to pay for it. The proper way to maintain highways isn't to wait until everything falls apart and redoing it. It's to always maintain it in good condition so it never gets to the point of disintegrating.

Then, obviously there is some animosity towards public transportation. Not your fault, not anyone's fault, but it's a mindset that have been engraved into Americans because of the way our cities are developed. The truth is that we are too spread out, and the amount of cars you see on the road, even in suburbs, prove that.

Transit will generate demand for transit-oriented developments, where people will begin to move towards city centers. That is the only way we can decrease sprawl and increase activities within the central business district.

And please watch the language. This isn't MySpace.

Let me quote Barney Frank: "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it." For a newbie with only 7 posts, you have quite an attitude.

Hawc, don't feed the troll.

Let me quote Barney Frank: "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it." For a newbie with only 7 posts, you have quite an attitude.

Hawc, don't feed the troll.

Yes sir! :booze:

And the other side is to tax fuel so people will stop driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack.


Actually, in countries like ours, public transport is financed by about 30% in ticket sales, and 70% from other sources, like fuel tax or real estate. With people driving less, there's less tax money for public transport. Ticket fares are too low to cover the cost. Why do you think New York's bridges are still tolled like crazy?

I also doubt about the amount of people not driving because of a higher fuel tax. If you suddenly increase the gas price from $ 2.5 to $ 7, yes that may happen, but since no politician would ever do that, they will go for the gradual increase, say $ 0.25 per year. People just adjust their budget to it.

But I guess we need another major bridge to collapse in other to get the politicians attentions...

Hiking US fuel taxes to European levels is a strawman anyway--nobody is seriously proposing to do that, aside from the New York Times editorial page. The blue-ribbon commission on transportation funding (convened by USDOT in the waning days of the Bush administration) recommended tripling the federal motor fuel tax, which would raise the federal component of motor taxation from about 18c/gallon to about 54c/gallon.

Assuming matching rises from the states, this would take the overall motor fuel tax burden from about 30c-50c/gallon to about 90c-$1.40/gallon. This is not large compared to a current price of about $2/gallon (or higher, depending on reformulation requirements in some states) neat of tax, or $4/gallon (also neat of tax) in the summer of 2008.

This is the upper bound of plausibility. The increases that get discussed, and get passed, in individual state legislatures tend to be much smaller--typically on the order of 5c/gallon (cf. Washington State's "nickel tax"). The federal tax itself hasn't been increased since 1993.

There are some not completely unreasonable arguments against raising the fuel tax. An increase could, for example, fuel further construction inflation, particularly if not phased in in an optimal way. But at some stage we are going to have to wake up to the fact that tolls won't make up the difference--toll-viable corridors are limited--and ordinary upkeep of the highways isn't really an optional activity.

I don't want to play devil's advocate, but rising gas taxes doesn't always mean better roads.

I'm not trying to be a troll.I'm just telling my side of things.

Also, yes I only have 7 posts.I assume I'm suppose to be quiet in background just because I'm new.Anyone's opinion is just as important as the dude with the 2,000 posts.

Anyway, new topic.

Does anyone have any pics of the California 60/91/ I-215 interchange?It looks really nice.

Actually, in countries like ours, public transport is financed by about 30% in ticket sales, and 70% from other sources, like fuel tax or real estate. With people driving less, there's less tax money for public transport. Ticket fares are too low to cover the cost. Why do you think New York's bridges are still tolled like crazy?

I also doubt about the amount of people not driving because of a higher fuel tax. If you suddenly increase the gas price from $ 2.5 to $ 7, yes that may happen, but since no politician would ever do that, they will go for the gradual increase, say $ 0.25 per year. People just adjust their budget to it.

But I guess we need another major bridge to collapse in other to get the politicians attentions...

Sometimes I think so too. The collapse of the I-35 bridge got a lot of people talking, but having short-term memory, people just forgot about it. At least there's the stimulus now.

Sometimes I think so too. The collapse of the I-35 bridge got a lot of people talking, but having short-term memory, people just forgot about it. At least there's the stimulus now.

In Michigan, which has never in the history of the world been accused of having "good roads", the DOT here actually does give priority to rebuilding bridges and overpasses over pretty much everything else. :cheers:

^^ That's good to know. I'm just a little worried about the maintance of those structures once it's been built. But I guess the poor quality is due more to weather than engineering problems right?

Btw, Active Traffic Management like in the Netherlands/Britain/Germany is included in this rendering of SR 520 in Washington.

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Btw, Active Traffic Management like in the Netherlands/Britain/Germany is included in this rendering of SR 520 in Washington.
This ATM should help the Seattle area with never-ending traffic jams and accidents that happen just because people do not pay enough attention to the traffic around them :cheers:

This ATM should help the Seattle area with never-ending traffic jams and accidents that happen just because people do not pay enough attention to the traffic around them :cheers:

Yeah, these will be installed on the "beltway" around Lake Washington, which is a square made up of I-90, SR 520, I-5 and I-405. Not really a beltway since it's not one highway, but close enough I guess.

The problem now is how to enforce it, since Americans are generally opposed to any type of automatic enforcement.

I had a chance to talk with a WSDOT engineer and he said that there is so much politics involved in projects these days that the best engineering option isn't always selected. The original I-5 proposed by engineers was supposed to go around Seattle, rather than through it, but of course politicians decided otherwise...

Then I mentioned keep right except to pass, and he said that highways are now designed to compensate for people who don't follow the rules, and that's part of the reason why lanes on highways are generally taken away from the right rather than from the left, a great amount of people cruise in the left lane compared to the right...

Yeah, these will be installed on the "beltway" around Lake Washington, which is a square made up of I-90, SR 520, I-5 and I-405. Not really a beltway since it's not one highway, but close enough I guess.

The problem now is how to enforce it, since Americans are generally opposed to any type of automatic enforcement.

I had a chance to talk with a WSDOT engineer and he said that there is so much politics involved in projects these days that the best engineering option isn't always selected. The original I-5 proposed by engineers was supposed to go around Seattle, rather than through it, but of course politicians decided otherwise...

Then I mentioned keep right except to pass, and he said that highways are now designed to compensate for people who don't follow the rules, and that's part of the reason why lanes on highways are generally taken away from the right rather than from the left, a great amount of people cruise in the left lane compared to the right...

That's interesting, and the first time I've heard that. But, if you take a lane away from the right, how does that encourage those abusing the left lane to change their behavior? It would seem the opposite...if you are "riding" the left lane, and a right lane goes away, it would seem human nature would have that left lane rider stay right where they are. What am I missing here?

That's interesting, and the first time I've heard that. But, if you take a lane away from the right, how does that encourage those abusing the left lane to change their behavior? It would seem the opposite...if you are "riding" the left lane, and a right lane goes away, it would seem human nature would have that left lane rider stay right where they are. What am I missing here?

Well the way they're thinking about it is to take a lane that would have a lower amount of cruising traffic, in order to minimize merging. Since exits are normally on the right, and most people don't cruise on the right lane anyway, the impact to cruising traffic would be less if you take away the right lane than if you take away the left lane.

But I agree, all it does is encourage people to not follow lane discipline. There's no reason why engineers should have to compensate for drivers who are not following the law. The best practice is to work with the law, rather than bending it.

Yeah, we need more Americans over here :)

The most basic form of the American road system is not that hard to understand; Interstate Highways/US Highways -> State Routes -> County Routes (or equivalent). The numbering patterns of Interstates and US Highways are also not really hard to understand; even numbers run west-east, odd numbers run south-north. They increase from west to east for I-routes and east to west for US routes.

State Routes are more different, I usually cannot find any patterns, zoning or other system, so they tend to be randomly assigned. The numbers can be reused in every state, but there are usually no US/I/SR numbers with the same number. If there is a US 50, there isn't a SR 50 or I-50 in the same state.

Another interesting thing is that not only Interstate Highways are freeways, but US Highways and State Routes can be designed as freeways too. Some roads have a somewhat lower design standard, but can still be considered freeway (equivalents). Some freeways are even unnumbered, like the many Parkways in the greater New York area, which only have a reference number. In other states, like Georgia, US and I-routes also have a reference State Route number. In areas like Los Angeles or San Francisco, State Route freeways are just as important as Interstate Highways.

Texas seems to reuse numbers for different classes. Like There is an Interstate 35, Texas 35 and F.M. 35:


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I know this is an "old" post I'm quoting but it looked fun to point out a Texas example....

i hate that my country's highways are not like these.

Texas seems to reuse numbers for different classes. Like There is an Interstate 35, Texas 35 and F.M. 35:



I don't know wether thats normal in the US, but that's very normal in Europe.

I don't know wether thats normal in the US, but that's very normal in Europe.

Most states try not to do that in order to avoid confusion for both drivers and administrators. In a large state like Texas or in European countries with fully contiguous numbering schemes reusing numbers may be necessary.

Most states try not to do that in order to avoid confusion for both drivers and administrators. In a large state like Texas or in European countries with fully contiguous numbering schemes reusing numbers may be necessary.

The numbering of Interstates tried to avoid having the same Interstate and US highway number in the same state. When I-24 was extended from Nashville into southern Illinois it violated that rule, though it likely causes little confusion since the two never come close to each other.

In Georgia, though, there's some confusion over GA 20 and I-20 since they cross. And there's GA 85 and I-85. They don't cross, but they both branch off of I-75 south of Atlanta, and for a long time GA 85 was the main route to Columbus. If you're giving directions from Atlanta to anywhere on GA 85, it's best to clarify that I-85 isn't the 'highway' to take. :ohno:

Oh, on an unrelated topic, this reminds me...
http://i37.tinypic.com/11lr7tg.jpg

Clearview signage has been installed on Green I-85 in Spartanburg, SC. :banana:

Most states try not to do that in order to avoid confusion for both drivers and administrators.

As far as I know, that only counts for Interstate Highways, U.S. Routes and State Highways.

FM roads are another class below State Highways. (more or less like County Routes).

As far as I know, that only counts for Interstate Highways, U.S. Routes and State Highways.

FM roads are another class below State Highways. (more or less like County Routes).

FM roads in Texas = "farm to market"

However, many have developed well beyond that classificiation.

As far as I know, that only counts for Interstate Highways, U.S. Routes and State Highways.

It is up to the individual state whether it designs its route numbering system to avoid conflicts. The numbering grids for Interstates and US highways are oriented oppositely to minimize the numbering conflicts that would otherwise arise naturally, but the states are under no special obligation to prevent them. Many, like Texas, choose not to, while others, like California, allow the same number to be in multiple systems as long as the number belongs to a continuous route. Hence, California has I-110 continuing as SR 110, I-15 continuing as SR 15, etc. From California's perspective, I-110 and SR 110 are both part of Route 110.

FM roads are another class below State Highways. (More or less like County Routes.)

North of Dallas, US 75 has exits for both SH 121 and FM 121. The FM 121 exit is further to the north and has a special sign advising traffic not to exit for DFW Airport, which is reached via SH 121.

I took a big trip yesterday ,drove around Central / Northern Jersey

US 206 South crossing I-95 in Trenton,New Jersey

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I-95 South

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I-95 South @ US 1 in Trenton

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Crossing the Northeast Corridor I-295 South

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Interstate Art

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I-295 South

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Approaching my Exit

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Exiting I-295 South to I-195 East

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The Ramp to I-195 East

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I-195 East in Central Jersey

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Exiting to the NJ Turnpike

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Toll Gate

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To be Continued .........:)

~Corey

Continuing on New Jersey Turnpike North To Newark/New York

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Exit 8 to NJ 33 : Freehold / Hightstown

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Dutch :lol:

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Turnpike Split

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The Car lanes North
Exit 8A : Jamesburg / Cranbury

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Joyce Kilmer Service Plaza

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Service Plaza slip road entrance to NJTPK

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East Brunswick,NJ Hotels and Conference Center

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Exit 9 : East Brunswick / New Brunswick / Rutgers University

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Crossing the Raritan River : looking south

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Exit 10 : Perth Amboy / Edison Twp. / Metuchen / Staten Island / Woodbridge / I-287 North / NJ 440 East

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Triple Decker Bridge , Second Level is the Garden State Parkway , Third is Main Street in Woodbridge

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The Toll Gate for the Exit

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North Jersey Coastal Line Crossing the NJTPK

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Grover Cleveland Service Plaza

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Exit 12 : Carteret / Rahway / Linden , connections to US 1/9

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The Industrial Sector of NJ, keeps the Gas Prices low

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Exit 13 to Staten Island / Elizabeth,NJ

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I-278 / Goethals Bridge to Staten Island

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Exit 13A to Newark Liberty In't Airport / Port Newark / Elizabeth / Jersey Gardens Mall Complex

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Newark Skyline & Airport

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Elizabeth Center Super IKEA

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A plane landing at EWR

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Cranes @ Port Newark

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Exit 14 to Newark / EWR / Newark Seaport, Exit 14A to Bayonne , Exit 14B to Liberty State Park , Exit 14C to Jersey City

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I-78 : Newark Bay Bridge

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Entering the Western Spur of the NJTPK

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The Pulaski Skyway

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New York City / Gold Coast of NJ skylines

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New Jersey Meadowlands "A New Jersey Hidden Gem"

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Exit 15W Toll Gate

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Thats it for now, i'm still not done yet:devil::devil:

~Corey

Thanks!

That part of the Turnpike (and some other roads in the Newark area) always reminds me of Italy. This could easily be the A4 in Italy:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2636/4024105350_9963994cd4_b.jpg

Why does the turnpike have such thick lane marking (compared to other US roads)? Is there a reason?

Why does the turnpike have such thick lane marking (compared to other US roads)? Is there a reason?

I always feel like the NJ Turnpike was modeled after a German Autobahn.

Something different:

Interstate 40 in New Mexico

5goTOoriLig

or watch in HD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5goTOoriLig

I always feel like the NJ Turnpike was modeled after a German Autobahn.

It was built just after the end of WW2 , its a Euro Standard Hwy Network in NJ , i feel very safe on it compared to other Hwys, it has Electronic Warning signs every mile, and 10 ft wide shoulders the whole 122 mile Network. I'm Still not done yet,lol

I-280 in Kearny,NJ

Exit 17A to Jersey City

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Newark Skyline

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Morristown-Boonton-Gladstone-Montclair (electric) Lines <-----:----> Harrison,NJ

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Stickel Lift Bridge in Newark across the Passaic River

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The Ramp to Route 21 North , its currently being redone.

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The end for now:devil::devil:

~Corey

Why does the turnpike have such thick lane marking (compared to other US roads)? Is there a reason?
The same reason why they do their own thing on the designs of their Big Green Signs - because they are the New Jersey Turnpike and they CAN.

:nuts:

Mike

Why does the turnpike have such thick lane marking (compared to other US roads)? Is there a reason?

The visibility is very much improved. I wish all U.S. highways had thicker lane markings. 4 inches is simply inadequate, especially in adverse weather conditions.

This appeared in the IndyStar paper yesterday.


Daniels: I-69 will be half done by 2012

Associated Press

BOONVILLE, Ind. — Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels says the state plans to complete construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center by 2012, three years ahead of schedule.

He told the Evansville Courier & Press today that state highway officials also think that stretch of the highway can be built for the $700 million originally allotted because of plans to narrow medians, eliminate some interchanges and reduce pavement thickness.


The section between Evansville and Crane covers 68 miles, nearly half the full 142-mile route to Indianapolis.

The original cost of building the extension was set at $1.3 billion, including $700 million for the Evansville-to-Crane stretch. Cost estimates have since gone up to $3.1 billion.

The visibility is very much improved. I wish all U.S. highways had thicker lane markings. 4 inches is simply inadequate, especially in adverse weather conditions.

When the weather is good, they are less graceful than regular lane markings. However, I must agree with you, the wide lane markings are extremely helpful in adverse weather. The last time I traveled on NJT south of Newark was around 11pm under very heavy fog, and those wide markings were appreciated.

When the weather is good, they are less graceful than regular lane markings. However, I must agree with you, the wide lane markings are extremely helpful in adverse weather. The last time I traveled on NJT south of Newark was around 11pm under very heavy fog, and those wide markings were appreciated.

Oh it makes all the difference in fog. What do you mean by less graceful? I think New Jersey's thick lane markings do look a bit ungainly since the spacing is so close. I think if the proportions are right, like on the German Autobahn, it looks great.

Interstate 40 Arizona

Near Flagstaff, eastbound and down. The black tarmac vs the white snow!

MX13veXsFPk

Today it's exactly 78 years ago that the George Washington Bridge between Fort Lee, NJ and Manhattan, NY opened to traffic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d0/EBC1_150.jpg/800px-EBC1_150.jpg

Heres my pictures of the George Washington Bridge form New Jersey

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Under The Beast

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Up top again

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GWB Traffic

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On the Bridge

Upper Deck to NJ

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Lower Deck to NJ

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~Corey

^^

Very nice! Thanks nexis!


Here's a cool video of the LIE (I-495) I found on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgMaS9n2RX4&feature=channel

^^ Yep they did. Also many of our motorways are being upgraded (Gateway & Ipswich Motorways and Centenary Highway) plus 2 tunnels at the moment.

Like someone else said on this site, - Brisbane is a construction site at the moment.

It's hell from Airport-City. Do it each weekend. Horrible.

Interstate 8 in San Diego

Watch it in HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVXuxIt4ZW4) or below:

IVXuxIt4ZW4

Oh, i heard also about policemen in Miami who don't know English. Is that true?:nuts:

Ha,ha,maybe ha was a false policeman??!

I've read all the thread and I find the issue a kind of discrimination with each country discriminating the citizens of the other. For the insurance issue - you should think of that kind of solution, that we have in Europe - international insurances. It works pretty easy - I buy here a policy (the so-called "Green card"), which covers like 30 or 32 countries. Then, when I leave the EU with my car I am obliged to show this peace of paper to the officer at the border. If I do not have it, than he would simply not let my in with my car. That's it.

With the language problem - begin implementing pictogram signs. I would not agree with Chris that all the truck drivers here in Europe have to speak a foreign language. I am acquainted to quite a lot that do not speak any fluently and still drive their trucks for more than two decades. In every case you have a mobile phone and you can call a person who speaks English any time. Than Germans have some extracts of their laws published in almost every European language, so even if you can not understand why are you fined, you will know how much you have to pay, and then make an objection from your country. And, last but not least - most of the international documents for TIR transport have international names - like "carnet", "green card" (although English, it is understandable everywhere), and for buses - "Interbus", "Assor" etc.

Yes I agree,also Turkish drivers mostly don't speak any foreign languages,and make a nervous on mostly speditions,but they don't have any restrictions in driving!For drivers it's important to know driving and road signs and that's enough!

What is about bus routes to Mexico from USA?Is it forbidden for Mexican buses to drive in USA?What is about tourist buses on both sides of border??are there any photos??

What is about bus routes to Mexico from USA?Is it forbidden for Mexican buses to drive in USA?What is about tourist buses on both sides of border??are there any photos??

Mexico passanger buses into the US or Canada are not restricted, neither are Canadian or US buses into Mexico; but, passanger buses here are way better than they Greyhounds overthere, here the coaches used are Mercedes-Benz (also some lines use double deckers), Irizar, Scania, Volvo, Mann and all are brand new, and many are luxury with one row seats, food, individual restrooms, and leg room, unlike the crappy buses from the US that dont even have tv's and smell like feet and dont have a schedule, you just hop on the one that's coming and see if there's room in there or not, and don't tell me it's not true because i've used them before from laredo texas, to austin, when my cousins and i went shopping on a weekend last december, they're just horrible, the bus stations are so crappy, the people that get on those buses look and smell like hobos and we were scared that we were gonna get robbed, well im not gonna go on about it, im sure anyone whose used them know what im talking about

I think Mexico should reclaim their territory between California and Colorado and throw all the bigots out of it ;).

^Ahhh, home. Drive that road daily.

Note, the uneven pavement after I-5 is part of a repaving project that is in progress. Ramps are closed from 11 pm to 5 am on select days.

Also, that weird merge to one lane with the I-5 traffic is rather annoying, but at rush hour the worst I've seen it backed up was to a little before the base of the slope leading to it. It actually makes for a rather effective traffic metering tool since the bottleneck regulates how many cars merge with the traffic coming from 5 south and from the metered Rosecrans onramp. When you have 8 west, both directions from 5 and Rosecrans traffic merging and Taylor St. coming up rather quickly, the whole area slows down badly when it's busy and then accelerates right before 163. Problem is, if the onramps before 5 have their meters on, you get metered twice. Entry from Nimitz/Sunset Cliffs as shown in the video is rather smooth as that is the beginning.

By the way, that 805 bridge that tops the stack spans the entire Mission Valley. Definitely an interesting interchange. This appears to be the ramp to 8 west from 805 north.

^^ you can't hotlink pics from AAroads or it's subsidiaries.

Meanwhile, a rockslide closed I-40 in NC near the TN border.
http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/photos/2009/10/25/102609rockslide1_t300.jpg

In the US is the opposite, you are inocent until proven guilty..

Yet you're held in jail until you're proven innocent unless you post bail money.

Nice pictures of the George Washington bridge. It's been 77 years since the Sydney Harbour Bridge opened here, and the American bridge certainly looks like a much better road. Has the concrete barrier in the middle always been there, or was that a later fixture? I'm only asking because the Harbour Bridge here has a completely stupid lane arrangement; a six-lane single carriageway which is fully reversible (though I don't think all six lanes have run in the same direction for over 15 years) and two other lanes (one for buses, one for cars) which are cut off from the rest of the bridge by a concrete barrier because that part of the bridge was originally going to be for trains.

Personally, I'd prefer to see a barrier in the middle of the bridge (a head-on collision occurred there during rush hour not too long ago and they closed the entire bridge so they could get a helicopter in to fly a driver to hospital; roads all over Sydney came to a standstill), but that would mess up the daily tidal flow arrangement they have set up, so they won't do it. The bridge is also designed to support a second deck in the same way as the GWB, but they aren't going to build one because the freeways on either side aren't designed to cope with the extra traffic. In short, the Harbour Bridge is a total mess and I'm wondering if the GWB was originally designed that way or if it was later added to.

US is the "Land of the Free" they say, that's only for people who already live there.
Everyone who aren't a US citizen are suspects of terrorism. Slow down, CIA.

Nice pictures of the George Washington bridge. It's been 77 years since the Sydney Harbour Bridge opened here, and the American bridge certainly looks like a much better road. Has the concrete barrier in the middle always been there, or was that a later fixture? I'm only asking because the Harbour Bridge here has a completely stupid lane arrangement; a six-lane single carriageway which is fully reversible (though I don't think all six lanes have run in the same direction for over 15 years) and two other lanes (one for buses, one for cars) which are cut off from the rest of the bridge by a concrete barrier because that part of the bridge was originally going to be for trains.

Personally, I'd prefer to see a barrier in the middle of the bridge (a head-on collision occurred there during rush hour not too long ago and they closed the entire bridge so they could get a helicopter in to fly a driver to hospital; roads all over Sydney came to a standstill), but that would mess up the daily tidal flow arrangement they have set up, so they won't do it. The bridge is also designed to support a second deck in the same way as the GWB, but they aren't going to build one because the freeways on either side aren't designed to cope with the extra traffic. In short, the Harbour Bridge is a total mess and I'm wondering if the GWB was originally designed that way or if it was later added to.
According to http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/george-washington/ the lower deck was added in 1962.

Mike

ok fixed

Meanwhile, a rockslide closed I-40 in NC near the TN border.
http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/photos/2009/10/25/102609rockslide1_t300.jpg

What an awful situation. That section doesn't have a closely paralleling US highway either. It looks like it's going to take weeks to clear it up.

^^

three months (http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/massive_rockslide_could_close_part_of_interstate-40_for_three_months/34729/), no less...

bbbbbooooooooooooo

I have no recolection whatsoever of saying this :banana:
Although, less bold, my opinion remains equal
booo

Me wonders if it is time to start seriously studying a major tunneling and realignment project for I-40 in that area - besides the rockslideS (plural - this isn't the first time that it's been down for extended times due to slides), that highway is substandardly narrow and slow with many total circles of tight curves.

Mike

^^

That would be one hell of a long tunnel for Interstate 40 in that area.

^^ Eurostyle ;)

It always surprises me how few land tunnels the United States has. Even the Rocky Mountains don't have long tunnels. The Eisenhower Tunnel is only 1.7 miles long.

we have 2+ mile long tunnels in the NE , Euro style is definitely needed there though:)

Those tunnels would cost WAY too much.

US is the "Land of the Free" they say, that's only for people who already live there.
Everyone who aren't a US citizen are suspects of terrorism. Slow down, CIA.

Ha,ha,Big Brother is looking everywhere,you think?But a terrorism is a global problem,you'd also think so if your country'd have a such problem,or you and your living place..isn't so?

I think Mexico should reclaim their territory between California and Colorado and throw all the bigots out of it ;).

What is about borders between USA and Mexico,is that big border crossing near Tijuana reopened,after gun fire between US Customs and Mexican gangs??Illegal immigration is also global problem like terrorism,especially in USA and Europe!

Ha,ha,Big Brother is looking everywhere,you think?But a terrorism is a global problem,you'd also think so if your country'd have a such problem,or you and your living place..isn't so?

Interesting theory, but one thing is let out. The so called "impossible" event that an american citizen could be a terrorist. Don't always blame the immigrants!

One great thing about European tunnels is , that most of them do not have an overtaking ban. And some great tunnels have shoulders.

I'll take that thing back, since that FBI recently arrested 2 people suspected for planning terrorism against Denmark

Interesting about bus operators in Mexico: www.pullman.com.mx and www.uno.com.mx/espanol/index.html I think there is not reason for them to operate between USA and Mexico!But,by the way I don't know how is possible for Mexican citizens to get entry visa for USA,and which passengers are numerous,Mexicans or Americans?

Those tunnels would cost WAY too much.

And wouldn't be worth it. I can think of better things to spend the funds on.

It is important to realize that neither European transport agencies nor American state DOTs build tunnels just to be building tunnels. Typically each tunnel has to be economically justified, as is also true for expensive engineering works in general, like high-level viaducts, large embankments, large cuttings, etc.

For tunnels over land (as opposed to subaqueous tunnels, which are used for estuarial crossings) the tradeoff is typically between greater cost and greater benefit to traffic per vehicle transit. A mountain tunnel can allow a freeway to be built through mountainous terrain with lower grades and a much higher design speed, which in turn makes the freeway easier to negotiate for all traffic and much more economical for heavy vehicles. But in the American context, placarded vehicles are either not allowed through tunnels full stop, or are allowed through only with escorts or only at set times when traffic is otherwise low; this means that a substantial segment of the road freight sector gets no real benefit from highway tunnels. Tunnels also attract expensive and onerous requirements for nearby first-response infrastructure and 24-hour surveillance and control. This means that the high costs of construction are complemented by high costs of operation.

These factors chip away at benefits while inflating costs. Moreover, the benefits are linked to traffic and so tend to be back-loaded in time, which makes it more difficult for tunnel proposals to reach the payoff point within the 20- to 25-year amortization periods which American state DOTs use to ensure that highway investments are appraised on an equal basis.

How do European highway agencies get around these problems? Some do, while others don't. In a crude simplification, there are "northern" and "southern" models of tunnel construction and operation. In the "northern" model, which is essentially similar to US practice, agencies tend to avoid tunnels except for estuarial crossings, and use large embankments or rock cuts whenever practical. Britain is one example of a country following the "northern" model. In the "southern" model, which is followed in Spain and Italy, tunnels are built very frequently, which allows contractors to amortize the cost of tunnel boring equipment over multiple contracts (in "northern" countries the norm is that the tunnel construction cost includes the purchase cost of the boring equipment). Tunnels also vary widely in length, with active surveillance and control being concentrated on the longest and most heavily used tunnels, which holds down the operating cost. European highway agencies in general (both "northern" and "southern") tend to use longer amortization periods (in Britain, for example, it is 40 years), which tends to favor tunnel construction in general. There is also a marked disparity in procedures of tunnel operation, with "northern" countries having very strict rules about hazardous materials in tunnels (cf. the "exploding tanker" regulatory sign in Britain, which is often used at tunnels which are not available to transport flammable materials) while "southern" countries will allow anything within the tunnel. "Northern" countries are also more likely to have overtaking bans than "southern" countries. In essence, "southern" countries are willing to accept more risk for greater efficiency in operation and more economic benefit per vehicle transit than "northern" countries.

There is a presentational aspect as well. In general, tunnels are safer (in terms of deaths per unit distance travelled by vehicle) than lengths of open road. However, serious incidents in tunnels have the potential to result in multiple fatalities, typically from causes which would not pose serious problems in the open air. The Mont Blanc tunnel fire is the classic example: it was caused by a truck carrying flour and margarine and killed 39 people. It is much easier for an agency to have ownership of a length of open road where people die just a few at a time, normally in easily avoidable situations which are at least partly their own fault, rather than a tunnel where dozens of people can die in a single incident which is far beyond their powers to avoid. This is true even if the tunnel has the lower fatality rate overall. This phenomenon of risk perception has led to suggestions (in Switzerland) that added weight should be assigned to the risk of multiple-fatality single incidents, even if this results in people dying in ones or twos on the open road who would have survived if a tunnel had been built instead.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091028/ap_on_re_us/us_bay_bridge_closure_6

The Bay Bridge in San Francisco (Interstate 80) is closed again after an earlier emergency repair failed.

^^

J N Winkler, thank you for taking your time to write such a good and informative post.
I'd sure like to see more of these over the H&A forums :)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091028/ap_on_re_us/us_bay_bridge_closure_6

The Bay Bridge in San Francisco (Interstate 80) is closed again after an earlier emergency repair failed.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/jchernin/traffic.jpg

bay area traffic as a result of the closure, around 415 pm

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/jchernin/traffic.jpg

bay area traffic as a result of the closure, around 415 pm

Those not familiar with this corridor may not realize how important and critical it is for the Bay Area. I know there are long-term plans for replacement, but the next 5-10 years are also critical. A very difficult situation for this area, and one that could indeed cause critical difficulties in the public, commercial, and ultimately the economic health of the Bay Area.

Im surprised at Oakland's lack of traffic. That's not how I remember it. But that stuff on 80 around Albany is about right.

San Francisco Traffic horror:

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/28/ba-bridge29_100__0500773527.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/28/ba-BRIDGE29_0089_0500772822.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/28/ba-BRIDGE29_0048_0500772819.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/28/ba-Bay_Bridge_Cl_0500773265.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/28/ba-Bay_Bridge_Cl_0500773252.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/27/mn-bridge28_la01_0500771127.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/27/mn-bridgefail03_0500771154.jpg

Pics by SF Gate.

edit

sfgate.com is the chronicle website

ahaa!
I thought it was gate as in "toll gate".

So weird seeing the bay bridge approaches EMPTY. Im guessing the last picture is of Benicia-Martinez? I know it's not Carquinez because there is a newer bridge right next to it. Or is this the Richmond-San Rafael?

So weird seeing the bay bridge approaches EMPTY. Im guessing the last picture is of Benicia-Martinez? I know it's not Carquinez because there is a newer bridge right next to it. Or is this the Richmond-San Rafael?

it looks like that's the bay bridge right after it happened. I think the steel feel close to six o'clock and that photo looks like it was taken around then.

Goodness, talk about a mess. Traffic on that bridge was bad enough before.

Those pictures of all the empty freeway lanes leading up to the bridge are just eerie. I feel bad for people who have to commute in the Bay Area. That bridge is supposed to handle 280,000 vehicles per day (roughly), and redirecting all of that is just a mess.

not to worry, the replacement bridge is coming...

it looks like that's the bay bridge right after it happened. I think the steel feel close to six o'clock and that photo looks like it was taken around then.

O, it looked like the bay bridge but I wrote that off thinking it was supposed to be empty but didn't think of that. Makes sense now.

an update


Bridge closure later likely for permanent fix

Michael Cabanatuan, Chronicle Staff Writer

Tuesday, November 3, 2009

The Bay Bridge is once again open to traffic - after six long days of emergency structural repairs and hellish commutes - but it will probably be shut down again in a few months for a permanent fix.

Richard Land, Caltrans' chief engineer, said Monday afternoon that while the repairs completed early that morning made the bridge safe for drivers, engineers were seeking "a better solution ... something more robust, better performing."

Until Monday, Caltrans officials had steadfastly defended the design of their fix, which involved taking the pressure off a cracked eyebar that was found during Labor Day weekend. That repair involved installing saddles above and below the cracked piece with four high-strength steel rods connecting them, then stressed to pull the weight away from the eyebar.

Caltrans engineers suspect that metal rubbing against metal, caused by high winds, caused two rods and a saddle to come crashing to the roadway last Tuesday. Their design to fix the problem was similar to what they had fashioned over Labor Day weekend, but they added elements to prevent the metal-on-metal contact.

"This is a temporary fix," Land said, "but a long-term solution might be needed. Right now the plan is not to keep the current strategy in place for the long term."

Caltrans engineers will analyze suggested repairs over the next couple of months in search of a strategy that will be as strong as the current fix but require less monitoring and maintenance than the repair just installed.

Instead of designing the long-term repair under time pressure, with the bridge closed and commuters fuming, Caltrans would plan the work and schedule a closure, perhaps in four to five months, Land said. The length of the closure would depend on the repair chosen. The options include replacing the eyebar, a huge undertaking that could involve replacing several eyebars, which join like a chain.

For the time being, Caltrans officials said they added a number of "enhancements" to prevent metal-on-metal contact, to prevent wind and bridge vibrations from causing the rods to move, and to prevent the pieces of the repair from falling to the bridge deck if they should fail again.

They spent much of the time adjusting the alignment and configuration of the metal pieces to assure they were not rubbing. Devices that monitor stresses and movement have been added, and Caltrans crews will check on the repairs daily for at least two weeks.

E-mail Michael Cabanatuan at mcabanatuan@sfchronicle.com.

This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle


source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/03/MN9H1AE5TD.DTL

I-55/I-355 interchange in southwest Chicagoland
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/I-355_and_I-55_interchange_from_air.jpg/1024px-I-355_and_I-55_interchange_from_air.jpg

Looks new ^^

This used to be the southern terminus of I-355, until it was extended to I-80 in late 2007.

Ahhhh

Chicago doesn't have that many expressways for a 9-10 million people metro area.

That's true, many suburban locations are quite far from expressways. I have even heard traffic in the suburbs is worse than on the Interstates around downtown.

Chicago is also an example that urban development is not necessarily spurred by freeway construction, as some critics say. Cities grow no matter what. Freeway construction may speed development up, but it will happen anyway.

Chicago doesn't have that many expressways for a 9-10 million people metro area.

Not true at all. Chicago has a TON of freeways.

Chicago is also an example that urban development is not necessarily spurred by freeway construction, as some critics say. Cities grow no matter what. Freeway construction may speed development up, but it will happen anyway.

No, you are wrong. Chicago is a perfect example of freeway construction spurring suburban development. The construction of I-90 and I-88 west of Chicago resulted in MASSIVE sprawl and the rapid growth of independent cities like Aurora and sleepy farm towns like Naperville into major 100,000+ population cities.

Sprawl has closely followed these two freeway routes.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7716/69188080.jpg
Anyone know what this was, never was? It's Interstate 93 just north of Boston

I'm guessing that ramp was constructed for the northern junction of I-695.

No, you are wrong. Chicago is a perfect example of freeway construction spurring suburban development. The construction of I-90 and I-88 west of Chicago resulted in MASSIVE sprawl and the rapid growth of independent cities like Aurora and sleepy farm towns like Naperville into major 100,000+ population cities.

Sprawl has closely followed these two freeway routes.

That doesn't explain the sprawl that's occurred in the western half of Lake County and McHenry County despite having no expressway or tollway in that quadrant of suburban Chicagoland. Many of the suburbs along I-88 and I-90 west of Chicago were already established thanks to the commuter rail lines, much the same way the Pacific Electric Lines allowed suburban communities in LA to establish themselves. Expressways and tollways do more to spur large employment centers than anything else, and suburban residential sprawl usually follows as a result of those employment centers.

No, you are wrong. Chicago is a perfect example of freeway construction spurring suburban development. The construction of I-90 and I-88 west of Chicago resulted in MASSIVE sprawl and the rapid growth of independent cities like Aurora and sleepy farm towns like Naperville into major 100,000+ population cities.

Sprawl has closely followed these two freeway routes.

Well, that's logic. If you have population growth, where do you develop it? In the middle of nowhere with NO infrastructure, or along existing freeways? However, Chicago did show it grew at other places with no freeways too. If there's no alternative, urban areas will continue to grow. Philadelphia and Atlanta are examples too, they have a lot of suburban areas that are far from freeways.

If you want no traffic growth, you either need huge unemployment (Wallonia, Ruhr) or a decimation of the population (world war III or emptying of cities (Rochester, NY, Buffalo, NY etc).

Yeah, well Houston is a 5.7 million metropolitan area, so a light rail line can be expected to draw some travelers. I think another rail lines to Uptown and the airport can also count on some traveler potential.

However, Houston is extremely large, and I don't think light rail are a solution for transportation in large parts of the city. Houston is a private transport-reliant city, and always will be, considering the layout and expansion of the city.

There are other cities that are built on similar models ...large spread out urban areas that rely on the private car as the main means of transport. In recent years though, we have seen that many of these areas, Los Angeles being one city where the car was thought to be king, change their attitude somewhat, and make progress with introducing light rail, intercity trains, suburban rail , subway, and improved buses. With the recent economic crisis, the price of gas in America surpassing the $4 a gallon mark, Americans countrywide are more opt to leave the car for other forms of reliable modes of transport.

gas increased from $ 6 to $ 11 in the Netherlands last year and nobody drove less.
That driving-less-due-to-gas-price-increases is more wishfull thinking than reality. Or do you think people won't go to work anymore? The only way that happens is an economic recession (as a perfect example the current one that reduces congestion).

For instance, in California, the unemployment rate is 12.2% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_unemployment_rate) of the total population. In Metropolitan Los Angeles, there are 17,776,000 people in the CSA. If 12.2% of those are unemployed, this means 2,169,000 less commuter trips. Back and forth, that is a traffic volume drop of 4.3 million vehicles per day! Now that's significant.

For instance, in California, the unemployment rate is 12.2% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_unemployment_rate) of the total population. In Metropolitan Los Angeles, there are 17,776,000 people in the CSA. If 12.2% of those are unemployed, this means 2,169,000 less commuter trips. Back and forth, that is a traffic volume drop of 4.3 million vehicles per day! Now that's significant.

That analysis is overly simple. For starters, I question whether Wikipedia is giving unemployment figures as percentages of total population--are there really so few retirees?

From the standpoint of traffic, what really matters is the difference between present unemployment and the lowest unemployment rate (usually computed as between 4% and 5%) that is associated with a stable labor market. Assuming the California statewide rate applies to the LA basin, this difference is 8% of whatever is counted as the population for purposes of compiling employment statistics. Not all of these people will be driving to work, since large segments of the LA population (think South Central) are dependent on bus transit. Moreover, being out of a job does not necessarily mean that a person stops driving. But because LA is full of freeways which operate at LOS E or F throughout much of the day, the reduced employment rate makes a dramatic difference in terms of hours per day of stop-and-go operation. (This is somewhat offset, though, if reduced employment translates to reduced bus patronage, which in turn can result in route closures or service cancellations which put more cars on the road. Many California transit providers, particularly in the Bay Area, have been forced to implement deep service cuts.)

That analysis is overly simple.

Of course, it's like a cigar box calculation :D However, I didn't want to throw in too many figures.

For starters, I question whether Wikipedia is giving unemployment figures as percentages of total population--are there really so few retirees?

I was actually wondering about that too, as far as I know, unemployment stats are usually given as a percentage of the working population, not total population.

Assuming the California statewide rate applies to the LA basin,

Well, greater LA represents 50% of the California statewide rate.

Not all of these people will be driving to work, since large segments of the LA population (think South Central) are dependent on bus transit.

About 90% drives to work (throw in some carpools too :) ). 10% uses other means of transport, usually the bus (PT usage in the U.S. and the Netherlands is actually not that different, but we use another mode; the bicycle)


Moreover, being out of a job does not necessarily mean that a person stops driving.

No, that's why only included commuter trips :)

But because LA is full of freeways which operate at LOS E or F throughout much of the day, the reduced employment rate makes a dramatic difference in terms of hours per day of stop-and-go operation.

I take it rush hours will especially narrow down. On some freeways in Los Angeles, congestion is occuring nearly all day, in other areas, only between 6 and 11 and between 3 and 7. This may narrow down, rush hours won't last as long as the extra capacity created by unemployment is now used by people who used to travel earlier or later during the rush, or by people who used alternate roads.

That last thing is also important to consider when widening or building a freeway. It creates different travel patterns in time and route. This is often underestimated.

The existing PA 60 and US 22/30 freeway and tollway between I-80 at Sharon, PA and I-79 at Carnegie, PA (just outside of Pittsburgh, PA) is now 'I-376', with PennDOT crews making the signing changes this weekend.

I-279 from there eastward through the Fort Pitt Tunnel into downtown Pittsburgh was changed earlier this year.

See:
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/c1b1fb590f4c687a85257666006eb39e?OpenDocument

:dance:

Mike

Oh that's nice. I-376 will be significantly longer now. It used to run only in the Pittsburgh urban area, but it now extends all the way to Sharon. :)

I found some really interesting videos about Freeways in the US. The users are FreewayBrent and ScrewdUPClickV2. I don't know if you guys posted some of them before, but I will show some Interstate Highways in the San Antonio Area. It seems TxDOT really invested a lot of Money in the Loop 410 expansion to 8 and 10 lanes, and the New I-10, US-281 stacks and Bandera Road Ramps, I think they are just as massive as they could.

I-410 (TX), U.S. 90 To I-35
NuJxTdB6COY

I-37 US-281 N
slqIvmjZdis

I-10
ncMeLbaRFKA

I-35
x1-MXH-KulE

I love Texas highways except for the frontage roads

FreewayBrent, lol. This genre has really taken off.

Entering The PA Turnpike on my way home form my Cousins Farm in PA

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3483/4082848425_a07a9eb5f2_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4083609396_ee6294b36f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/4083609494_aea5448eac_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2528/4082848963_886097a09c_b.jpg

Later after I-76 splits off to goes South , my camera Malfunctioned and produced Blurry Images.

Now on I-276 East

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3521/4082849059_e402c4b0f2_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/4082849143_343d1e6413_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/4083609868_819930324a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2661/4083610074_c05da39722_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2762/4082849685_2480e530c3_b.jpg

Approaching the I-476 Interchange

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/4083610510_1b1b66bd4b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/4082850119_e0d715fb90_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2729/4082850301_514becf6e1_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/4082850711_9efd528c0e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/4082850903_603c6770a9_b.jpg

US 1 Interchange

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3482/4082851391_5bd128b417_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2688/4082851573_1e5d0fe7d6_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4082851791_d5ed218f1c_b.jpg

Delaware Bridge Toll Gate

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2726/4083612626_f7c69a52cc_b.jpg

I'll post the rest later on Today:)

~Corey

Bummer the leaves are all gone. Was there this time last year, they were just blowing off the trees. It was pretty awesome.

Popquiz; what's wrong about this picture?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-196_nb_exit_034_01.jpg

(I don't think I can hotlink AAroads pics)

Some freeways in Texas (at least portions of them) seem to be begging for repairs :
http://www.aaroads.com/texas/texas281/us-281_nb_at_us-290_eb.jpg
http://www.aaroads.com/texas/texas281/us-281_nb_at_us-290_eb.jpg

Uhh... That is repaired. In Ohio they do a good job with patched roads which - though not pretty - drive just as smooth as a freshly paved one. Texas usually does a pretty good job with their roads.

America's continental climate is a lot more extreme than Europe's so don't go comparing European solutions with American ones.

Yep, and besides that, the DOT funds are declining in purchasing power, so they can't afford to do much projects. That's why you see more and more toll roads.

^^ Plus, that's not an interstate highway.

Popquiz; what's wrong about this picture?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-196_nb_exit_034_01.jpg

(I don't think I can hotlink AAroads pics)

Well, for starters, since it's an even numbered interstate, it should be signed east-to-west regardless of whether it's actually aligned north-to-south.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7716/69188080.jpg
Anyone know what this was, never was? It's Interstate 93 just north of Boston

I think that's where Interstate 95 was supposed to go off to the north through the Boston suburbs before the project got cancelled and 95 was routed around Boston.

Popquiz; what's wrong about this picture?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-196_nb_exit_034_01.jpg

(I don't think I can hotlink AAroads pics)

My question was, what is a Pennsylvania state highway sign doing in Michigan?



Well, for starters, since it's an even numbered interstate, it should be signed east-to-west regardless of whether it's actually aligned north-to-south.

Actually three digit interstates can be signed any direction. They have slightly different rules from the main interstates.

My question was, what is a Pennsylvania state highway sign doing in Michigan?

Yep, that's quite rare :)

About 90% drives to work (throw in some carpools too ). 10% uses other means of transport, usually the bus (PT usage in the U.S. and the Netherlands is actually not that different, but we use another mode; the bicycle)

That will change once LA builds more rail lines, but that wouldn't happen for a couple of decades.

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/11/06/no-road-that-we-built-in-texas-paid-for-itself/

Interesting article on how we fund our roadways. Conventional wisdom says that highways are cheap and self-sustaining, while urban transit is expensive and a drain on regional budgets. Maybe it's a case of being (relatively) cheap to build and expensive to maintain.

Surprising to see that this comes from Texas, the Mecca for superhighways.

Yep, that's quite rare :)

That is a mystery. However, I-196 is marked as "US" Highway 31 near Holland, Michigan. And the PA state highway signs do look similar to the US highway signs. Some sort of mix-up somewhere...

Straight out of the Autobahn.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/4083609868_819930324a_b.jpg

Straight out of the Autobahn.



Except those ugly electricity poles that you'll find nowhere in Germany.

Except those ugly electricity poles that you'll find nowhere in Germany.

That's very true :lol:

ISTR that the engineering on some of Germany's earliest autobahns was indeed based on the engineering on the first section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (or vice-versa).

Mike

Vice versa.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike is from the 1940's, if I remember correctly. The German Autobahn predates that. However, the New York parkways largely predate the German Autobahn. (construction of the Bronx River Parkway already started in 1917).

I have read that Fritz Todt (builder of the Autobahnen and much else in Nazi Germany) visited the Meadowbrook State Parkway in New York while it was under construction, and incorporated his observations in Autobahn design standards. I have not succeeded in substantiating this in more reliable sources, however. Seidler (Todt's biographer) does not mention it. At the time a return trip to the US by steamship would have taken two weeks minimum, so there is also the question of whether Todt's schedule in the early 1930's even had a hole large enough to accommodate a visit in person to New York.

I think it is distantly possible that Todt would have seen complete construction plans for the Meadowbrook State Parkway if he had attended the 1930 World Road Congress (which was held in Washington, DC) as one of the German delegates. I think the Meadowbrook State Parkway opened in 1933, so assuming a minimum two years for construction, there should have been at least survey drawings and functional plans for interchanges by late 1930.

^^ NYCroads.com:



Construction of the Meadowbrook State Parkway began in earnest in 1932, and included the construction of the Loop Parkway spur to Point Lookout. This initial four-mile-long section from Jones Beach north to EXIT M9 (Merrick Road) in Freeport opened in the fall of 1934. It originally featured two 24-foot, two-lane roadways separated by an 18-foot-wide grassed median.

I-276 : New Jersey Turnpike Ext

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US 130 Exit

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New Jersey Turnpike Toll Gate

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Approaching the Main New Jersey Turnpike

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Entering the New Jersey Turnpike Northbound

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Widening has begun down here

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Exit 7

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Old Signs ewwwww @ Exit 7A

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Later, further up on the NJ TPK

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Exit 10

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Garden State Parkway is the lower Bridge and The Upper Bridge is Main Street for Woodbridge ,NJ

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Exit 11 to the Garden State Parkway

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Exit 11 Toll Gate

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Thats it for now more will come tomorrow:)

~Corey

The situation on the last picture seems pretty dangerous to me, an interchange without lines. Or do people already get in the right lane before they're at the toll gate?

Majority of those people are already on that side , most people are going semi fast after the Toll gate because they have to slow again to 35-40mph for the ramps !

The situation on the last picture seems pretty dangerous to me, an interchange without lines. Or do people already get in the right lane before they're at the toll gate?

For locals, yes. For out-of-towners, it's a complete free-for-all.

Here some picture form I-80 i took today , i took alot of Interstates today:)

I-80 form Paterson,NJ Garret Mountain Reservation

There resurfacing the roadway thats why it looks so white

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I-80 & NJ 19 Interchange

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Ramps form I-80 West to NJ 19 North and South

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City of Paterson Panoramic

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Crossing I-80

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Entering I-80 West in Paterson

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I-80 West in Passaic County,NJ

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Little Falls / Totowa

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Wayne

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New Shiny Barriers and Fresh Pavement

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I-287 Slip road

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I-287 Southbound Ramp

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I-287 South : Whippany

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Exiting in Morristown

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Thats it for now , Next up I-78 and the NJ Turnpike

~Corey

The situation on the last picture seems pretty dangerous to me, an interchange without lines. Or do people already get in the right lane before they're at the toll gate?

I'd even say that the lack of lane markings makes it less dangerous in that situation, because it forces people to open their eyes and use common sense.

Great photos, nexis! Keep 'em coming. :cheers:

Nice birds eye view pics :)

Entering I-78 Express Lanes form NJ 24 in Springfield,NJ

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Garden State Parkway Interchange Construction Site

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Ramp to I-78 East form GSP South coming along nicely

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Entering Hillside,NJ

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Entering The City of Newark

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Downtown Exit is in the Middle

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Entering the Newark Airport Interchange

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Entering The New Jersey Turnpike Northbound

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View of I-78 and the Newark Bay Bridge

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Going under the Pulaski Skyway on the Eastern Spur

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The Eastern Spur Bridge over The North East Corridor, you can see the NJ Transit yards and the extra rail cars stored during off peak hours

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Hackensack River Bridge , undergoing sum refurbishment

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Crossing the Hackensack River with a view of Jersey City & Manhattan, and a NJ Transit Train headed for NY Penn Station

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Manhattan Skyline comes into view

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NJ Transit Train pulling into Secacuse JCT

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Secacuse Toll Gate & Exit to NJ 495 and the Lincoln Tunnel

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Crossing NJ 3

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approaching the End of the Eastern Spur of the NJTPK

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End of the Western & Eastern Spurs, <--I-80 Hackensack,Paterson , San Fransico : George Washington Bridge , US 46 , Fort Lee , New York City --->

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4112559131_dfff78c1f7_b.jpg

I-80 Slip road

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Approaching The Eastern Terminus of I-80

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I-95 Traffic & Exit

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The Eastern Terminus of I-80 in Teaneck,NJ

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4112559769_8481c7a1d9_b.jpg

Up next , I-287 / 87 NY

~Corey

It's not Secacuse, but Secaucus ;)

You're an early morning riser, Nexis.

I wonder if there is a sign showing the mileage for San Francisco on the eastern end of Interstate 80.

I know there isn't one on our side anymore there used to be , i don't what happened to it :ohno:

NJ 17 > NY 17 : I-287 North entering New York

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I-287 East merging with I-87 South in Suffern,NY

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NY 304 View of I-287/ 87

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/4113333528_1ee43e2621_b.jpg

Thats it for now , i don't know when the next update will be, for the interstates thread :cheers:

~Corey

I drove on the I-95 in Florida, so weird to see the same signs, but completely different surroundings. And to know that your pics have been taken so many miles away, but still close to the same road.

But just thinking about driving the whole lenght of I-95 makes me sleepy!

The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge (Interstate 278) in New York City turns 45 today!

It opened in 1964. A second deck was added in 1969 for a grand total of 12 lanes of traffic. It carries 195,000 vehicles per day.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/080521-N-7571S-011.jpg/428px-080521-N-7571S-011.jpg

A bigpicture view on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge in the foreground, intersecting with the Belt Parkway. In the center of the picture, near those two apartment towers in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, the Gowanus Expressway intersects with the Belt Parkway.

Other visible locations/landmarkts are the Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn Heights and the Empire State Building.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2rw55lf.jpg

Interchange of the Belt Parkway and Gowanus Expressway (I-278) in Brooklyn. The Gowanus Expressway was built in between 1939 and 1941 on an existing elevated structure previously used for a railroad. It was widened in the 50's to six lanes and passes by buildings very close.

http://i47.tinypic.com/1sgrvq.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4112563199_1c991d9680_b.jpg

No offense, but that welcome sign reeks of blandness.

Which sucks even worse because NY actually has one of my favorite welcome signs, the one with the Statue of Liberty on it.

The Statue of Liberty isn't yours , thats why the signs were changed. Its ours , New Jersey Sued New York in the 1990s over this issue and we won.:)

Hmm, I thought Ellis and Liberty Islands were exclaves of Manhattan Borough.

The Statue of Liberty is on an island that's part of NY state but it is "within" NJ's border and is much closer to the NJ mainland than it is to New York's. Of course Lady Liberty also has her backside turned toward Jersey. :)

There both in NJ and always have been , there one of the most visited landmarks in Jersey City. The Main Ferry to get to both is in Jersey City. When Ellis Island had a Fire & Security scare last week , Jersey City PD and Swat and Fire Responded , not NYC. Its sad NYC claimed as theres , it was never. Jersey City has big plans for the Liberty Terminal , it used be a train station and it was abandoned in the 1960s , now there going to turn it into a Market and Museum. Jersey City is now a major City , its = to NYC in Construction Projects , with over 40 to 70 going on Now , 3 Skyscrapers. There are plans to Put something under I-78 , most likely a Park. I-78 has a Skyway in Jersey City , it rises 4 stories above the streets. And provides stunning views of The Jersey City Skyline , i posted about the Skyway a few pages back, only the Westbound Roadway which is only 2 stories high. I think New York State Signs should have Niagara Falls , Wineries, and NYC skyline , the new NJ Signs are great looking but small compared to other states , except on the Tollways , where there big , even some Railways have signs :)

Wikipedia has details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island

In actuality New York has all of Ellis Island except the portions which were created by landfill. New Jersey successfully argued that the landfill portions are within NJ. But neither state is actually able to levy taxes on Ellis Island because it is wholly owned by the federal government and there is a convention in the US that no governmental jurisdiction levies tax on others.

There is a bridge (now closed) between Jersey City and Ellis Island.

Liberty Island, on the other hand, is wholly in New York and is part of New York City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Island

Again, because all land on it is owned by the federal government, none of it is taxed.

There both in NJ , since i live here , i would know. There is about 200 to 290 feet before the New York Line , if you go to The park and ask which state owns it They'll say New Jersey. Liberty State Park is on the New Jersey side , NYC has no park , that is associated with Lady Liberty & Ellis Island. And don't trust Wikipedia on that dept , you have to visit there to get the actually correct answer :) The Bridge isn't Closed , its only for Workers and Maintenance.

I am going to trust Wikipedia on this one. It does say that the dry land of Liberty Island is New York territory in New Jersey waters, which makes Liberty Island a classic exclave since it is surrounded by New Jersey but not part of it. Liberty State Park is just that--a state park. The Statue of Liberty and associated grounds is a federal monument. And the bridge in question is effectively closed if it is open only to maintenance vehicles.

The Wikipedia article on Liberty Island has a section which explains why people mistakenly believe Liberty Island is part of New Jersey.

The Statue of Liberty isn't yours , thats why the signs were changed. Its ours , New Jersey Sued New York in the 1990s over this issue and we won.:)

I think that those signs were made in this decade though.

I don't trust Wikipedia on a number of things , ive found out alot of incorrectness , and it was on Fox and CNN the other day , about how Wikipedia has alot errors in sum topics. I lived all my life , visited Lady Liberty 7x , i think i know what i'm talking about. End of Topic :bleep:

If you think that Liberty Island is in New Jersey, then it is perhaps not surprising that you think Wikipedia is full of inaccuracies. I won't disagree that it has some errors but this is not one of them.

If you don't trust Wikipedia, how about Google Maps? It clearly shows that Liberty Island is in New York.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Statue+of+Liberty,+NY&ie=UTF8&hq=Statue+of+Liberty&hnear=Statue+of+Liberty,+New+York&ll=40.689998,-74.045228&spn=0.002095,0.004823&t=h&z=18

It also shows clearly that different parts of Ellis Island are in New York and New Jersey.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Statue+of+Liberty,+NY&ie=UTF8&hq=Statue+of+Liberty&hnear=Statue+of+Liberty,+New+York&ll=40.699914,-74.038872&spn=0.002094,0.004823&t=h&z=18

The fact that you live in New Jersey, and have visited the Statue of Liberty seven times, does not mean you are right. You are not.

Edit: See also this map of Community District 1 in Manhattan (Chris was right--Liberty Island and the New York portion of Ellis Island are administratively part of Manhattan):

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/lucds/mn1profile.pdf

Edit (again): A 1998 New York Times article (republished on a private website) adds to the evidence pile:

http://www.endex.com/gf/buildings/liberty/eiowner.htm

Edit (yet again): Found full text and a map of the Supreme Court's decision of May 21, 1998, in New Jersey v. New York, 526 US 589 et seqq. (page 701 of 1198 in the PDF file):

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/boundvolumes/526bv.pdf

The map attached to the decision bears the chopmarks of NJDOT and the NJ Geodetic Survey, is sealed by a PE registered in NJ, and shows clearly that of the 27.485 acres total land area of Ellis Island, 22.802 acres is in New Jersey while 4.683 acres is in New York.

There is unfortunately not a citeable Supreme Court decision to the effect that Liberty Island is in New York, because New Jersey has never litigated otherwise. But make no mistake: on Liberty Island you are in New York.

Actually if you look at it , its in New Jersey , but its New York owned ,that may change in the next year or 2 Because Jersey Wants to use it in its Tourism plans , so will have sue to have there rights stripped , its really in New Jersey. I think NYC will give it up , since they can't even maintain there Gov' Most of there Hwys are crumbling and there fighting in Albany , so if NJ sued they'd run like babies:lol:

Not gonna happen. New Jersey doesn't have a leg to stand on legally if it tries to sue New York for Liberty Island--and even in the Ellis Island lawsuit all it did was ask for the parts on landfill. New York will never agree to give up the right to say the Statue of Liberty is in New York.

Why are you even arguing with me on this , i know more then you , i live here , you are making me MAD end of Discussion , NJ is more Powerful ATM , NYC GOV isn't in Mood to argue for things like that :lol: NO MORE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE , WE ARE GOING OFF TOPIC AND YOUR MAKING ME EXTREMELY MAD:bleep::bleep:

The USSupremes ruled a few years back that the lines are as shown - Liberty Island is in New York, the 'natural' part of Ellis Island is in New York, the 'artificial' (landfill) part of Ellis Island is in New Jersey and the surrounding water up to the natural midpoint of the Hudson River is in New Jersey. Yes, it is two enclaves of New York surrounded by New Jersey.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled drive on the USofA's interstate highway system.

:cheers1:

Mike

Doesn't really matter in my mind. It is the property of the U.S. Perhaps we should move on.

Why are you even arguing with me on this , i know more then you , i live here , you are making me MAD end of Discussion , NJ is more Powerful ATM , NYC GOV isn't in Mood to argue for things like that :lol: NO MORE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE , WE ARE GOING OFF TOPIC AND YOUR MAKING ME EXTREMELY MAD:bleep::bleep:
How so? :?

Either way, it doesn't really matter, I just thought those other welcome signs look better than the other one.

I'm going with Winkler. The guy definitely knows his shit. Corrected me a few times, always learn something, completely objective. On the other side I sense bias and wishful thinking. One of the PDFs spells it out perfectly on a map a few pages down. Google has it right.

As for highways, I'm thinking the crumbling has to do with excessive usage and inability to shut down for repairs without impacting TONS of people and costing a lot of money. Sure such things can be repaired, like the Bay Bridge in SF somehow is trying to do it while remaining in operation, but when it is whole stretches of roads, it takes forever to do it. NYC has been a huge city by contemporary standards since before freeways existed, I'm amazed any major roads were able to be built, they were probably beefed up existing roads over time, but Im guessing here.

NYC has been a huge city by contemporary standards since before freeways existed, I'm amazed any major roads were able to be built, they were probably beefed up existing roads over time, but Im guessing here.

Thanks to a guy named "Robert Moses". He designed and built nearly all expressways and parkways in the New York side of the metropolitan area. Only the first Westchester County Parkways weren't a thing of Moses I believe.

Nexis: to answer your questions:

* When I saw your first post to the effect that all of Ellis and Liberty Islands were in NJ, I suspected you were wrong, so I went to Wikipedia to confirm whether you or I was correct. Wikipedia pretty much confirmed what I suspected.

* When I posted the links to Wikipedia and you reiterated your original claim, casting not entirely undeserved aspersions on Wikipedia's accuracy and reliability, I decided--as an exercise--to see if there were other, more reliable sources which would support Wikipedia's account. I found the original Supreme Court decision, which is as authoritative as it gets. I also found Google Maps, which agrees with Wikipedia, and the PDF from the NYC planning bureau website, which also agrees with Google Maps and Wikipedia. The crucial elements of Wikipedia's account are thus triple-sourced, which is one layer of substantiation over and above what is required for a statement to be presented in a newspaper article as factually true.

I am a historian by trade, and the key to what we do is gathering different sources and assessing their probative value as evidence. We do this by looking at what the sources say and how it relates to the points we have under consideration. We also look at all the reasons why we should, or should not, consider the source reliable. You would have been quite well within your rights to attack pretty much all the evidence I presented. For example, you could have rejected Google Maps on the grounds that its presentation of boundaries is often inaccurate. You could have rejected the NYC planning bureau PDF on grounds that it is a biased source (but this would have raised other questions: why would it be in NYC's interest to diffuse factually inaccurate information? What if I produce a PDF from an official New Jersey source which agrees with the NYC documentation?). You would have been entirely right to point out that I provided no primary source evidence (which would consist, probably, of online facsimiles of the 1664 charter and the 1834 bistate agreement) to substantiate the claim that Liberty Island is in New York. But statements like "i know more then you," "NJ is more Powerful ATM," etc. have no evidentiary value whatsoever. It is not on point; length of time spent in NJ and familiarity with its affairs has no relationship to the question of who owns the two islands.

Others have been kind enough to agree with me, but the fact is, I can be wrong. On a number of occasions in the past, I have been shown to be so. So my challenge to you is: if you think I am wrong, produce the documentation which will prove I am wrong. I don't care if you do it in this thread, open another thread on SkyscraperCity where it will be on-topic, or do it by PM.

Now, regarding topic drift on this thread, one can be either part of the problem, or part of the solution. So I am posting a number of pictures of Interstate signs from the report of a 1967 Congressional inquiry into freeway guide signing.

First picture demonstrates the problem of matching downward-pointing arrows to the lanes to which they refer (I think it comes from an early version of the East Los Angeles Interchange):

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/i-10-probably-toward-east-la-interchange-1967.jpg

I think this style of advance guide sign was used on the New York State Thruway:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/i-287-westchester-expwy-1967.jpg

One of the experts who testified before Congress pointed out this sign as an example of a misleading message. The message this sign tries to convey is equivalent to that of its eventual replacement, which had US 101 and I-5 shields above "San Diego," with no downward-pointing arrows. With the downward-pointing arrows, however, this sign encourages drivers to think that the left lane goes to I-5, middle lane goes to San Diego, and right-hand lane goes to US 101.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/misleading-i-5-us-101-san-diego-sign.jpg

This sign (precise location not known to me, but almost certainly somewhere in Caltrans District 8) was used as an example of message overload. Many of the US routes shown were dumped in 1964.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/misleading-i-15-sign-1967-reduced.jpg

This sign shows Virginia's old and misleading design of exit tab. It is misleading firstly because the main sign panel uses "EXITS" in the plural, but the tab sign uses just "EXIT." What the tab sign does not say, but a modern exit tab would say, is that there are two exits up ahead with letter suffixes. At the interchange itself, the separate exits would have cardinal direction suffixes (also signed on tabs mounted beneath the main sign panel)--11S and 11N in this case.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/va-123-vienna-mclean-sign-1967-reduced.jpg

I am not aware that these Congressional hearings--whose report is nowadays very hard to find; I have found just one copy, in the Davis Transportation Library at Berkeley--had a direct influence on guide sign design. However, the people testifying included nearly all the luminaries of human-factors-based traffic research, and the fact that the hearings were held at all must have been taken as an indication that Congress was concerned the guide signing system was not as effective as it might be. The MUTCD now includes provisions designed to prevent the problems shown on these signs.

(Duplicative text deleted)

It is misleading firstly because the main sign panel uses "EXITS" in the plural, but the tab sign uses just "EXIT."

Isn't "EXITS" a verb?

Isn't "EXITS" a verb?

It can be.

The man exits the highway in his car.

or just plural of exit. :)

Interesting, I thought I-287 was named the "Cross Westchester Expressway". But maybe that's too long to put on the signs.

It is , they should rename it the "Pain in the ass Expressway" Due to The Numerous long last construction projects on it.

Here's some of my Most Favorite Signs in NYC / Philly Metros for Interstates

New Jersey

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2549/3891127268_9f67e1e7b5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/3890935844_3a4b732e4e_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/3891353554_05d02e7df7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3890249261_cd6158a59a.jpg

New York

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3968333057_d9fe37a0e8_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/3892864776_9dca72fd84_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3892899232_aa23a8d0b3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3907282176_580c3a816b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2667/3922834354_efff620fb3_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3926132692_a667af9c65_b.jpg

Pennsylvania

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2504/3921817666_9b2138b4d2_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2617/3921809256_603f12d65f_b.jpg

Connecticut

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3968335237_77d8108ef3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2632/3969108228_c3a2a4271c.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3968334207_ce41a9f963.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2615/3968334113_56d5d23346.jpg

~Corey

It can be.

The man exits the highway in his car.

or just plural of exit. :)

I know, but what is it in that case? I thought that word was always a verb on such signs. But not on signs like the small sign below (EXIT 11) where it's of course a noun.

Unless it is obviously part of a verb phrase, "exit" is better interpreted as a noun, used in the plural when there are multiple exits. The problem with the Virginia sign is that the main panel admits there are multiple exits while the bottom tab uses the singular and uses just one exit number. Therefore, the tab "hides" orientation information which is later shown at the exit, which leaves drivers little time to use it to make a decision.

^^ You're right, I should've just looked at one photo above it where it's "EXIT 1/4 MI". However, "EXITS" doesn't make sense to me; how can two exits exit at the same time (in 1/4 mile)? Wouldn't that be one exit then?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/70541002.html

Several bridges at the I-94/894/US 45 interchange (the 'Zoo' interchange) on Milwaukee's west side are in danger of immediate failure and will be replaced with temporary structures over the next few months. The entire interchange is scheduled for complete replacement starting in about 2014 - if financing is able to hold (the state legislature/governor have been playing politics with the transport fund and severely raiding it to cover general-fund deficits in recent years, so I'm NOT holding my breath on this one).

Not only for metro Milwaukee, but the continued health of this interchange is of critical economic importance to the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton, WI area - it is our major outlet to the south.

:no:

Also, had the Milwaukee metro freeway system been built as planned, this would be much more of an annoyance than a critical economic threat, as due to those cancellations the system does not have the redundancy needed to prevent these sorts of things from gumming up the whole region.

:mad2:

Mike

This is only the beginning. Over the next 10 years, many bridges and structures are over 50 years in lifetime and have operated far over original design capacity during the last 4 decades. I've read the I-295 in NJ had a capacity of 40,000 at 4 lane sections and 75,000 at six-lane sections. If that count for other freeways too, there's a problem because there are many four-lane sections that carry in excess of 80,000 AADT and six-lane sections that carry over 130,000 AADT.

Bigass:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4130799344_f00156ea85_o.jpg

This is only the beginning. Over the next 10 years, many bridges and structures are over 50 years in lifetime and have operated far over original design capacity during the last 4 decades. I've read the I-295 in NJ had a capacity of 40,000 at 4 lane sections and 75,000 at six-lane sections. If that count for other freeways too, there's a problem because there are many four-lane sections that carry in excess of 80,000 AADT and six-lane sections that carry over 130,000 AADT.

Well, that means two things.

1. We're going to be in deep financial gridlock with so much of our infrastructure to replace.

2. I'll probably have a job when I graduate from college! But first I have to get into college... :nuts:

Well, that means two things.

1. We're going to be in deep financial gridlock with so much of our infrastructure to replace.

2. I'll probably have a job when I graduate from college! But first I have to get into college... :nuts:

Good luck dude. I graduated at the worst possible time and still nothing. Gotta made do though.

Chris, you're a traffic... something, so you might be able to answer this question...

Is a 3+3+3+3+3+3 better than a 9+9 road??
And if so, why??

If you have more than 4 adjacent lanes per direction, the capacity per lane decreases. It allows for too much turbulence between the lanes, reducing capacity.

Another problem is that a local/express setup requires more space, because there are more barriers, more shoulders and larger interchanges necessary.

However, I think local/express setup should have at least 5 lanes each way (3+2). Splitting up 4 lanes into 2+2 each way seems uneconomical to me.

A local/express setup is also useful in areas with a lot of offramps with limited capacity. That way, only the local lanes become jammed, while the express lane can continue to operate with free flowing traffic. If there was just one roadway with 5 or 6 lanes, all lanes would suffer from the limited off-ramp capacity, creating more congestion than necessary. In worse conditions, one single malfunctioning offramp could create a 10 mile backup, while if that would've been a local/express setup, the backup wouldn't be 10 miles x 5 lanes (=50 lane miles congestion), but 2 miles x 2 lanes (= 4 lane miles congestion). Overall, traffic would improve significantly, even if there are actually not more lanes. Same number of lanes, 12 times less congestion on a per lane mile basis.

Good luck dude. I graduated at the worst possible time and still nothing. Gotta made do though.

What was your major?

What was your major?

Civil and Environmental Engineering at UC Berkeley.

And I don't mind the local express set ups, just sucks when the local dumps back onto the express. Haven't really seen much of it in CA except locally in San Diego at the big 5-805 merge they do a "Local Bypass" that bypasses the interchange to lead to 56 and also has one local exit. There was a lot of split arrangements in the Chicago area I remember. I dont know in CA it seems that there is an understanding that if you are not planning to exit any time soon, stay out of the 2 right lanes unless you're a truck or driving slower. Not the most efficient but the highways are old.

There was a lot of split arrangements in the Chicago area I remember.

There are two basically.

* The Dan Ryan Expressway (I-90/I-94) south of downtown which has a true local/express setup.
* The John F. Kennedy Expressway (I-90/I-94) north of downtown which has a reversible 3rd carriageway in the median.

I think the 405/5 merge north of LA is really cool. (cars and trucks merging separately)

Are there other examples of this outside of CA or outside of the US ?

You mean truck lanes? They want to construct those at the I-710, the Long Beach Freeway from Long Beach to Alhambra. That freeway carries 40,000 trucks per day, which ship goods between the port of Los Angeles and the rail yards in the Inland Empire. (those rail yards should've been at the port itself, then you wouldn't need to be driving back and forth all the time with trucks for that short distance).

You mean truck lanes?

No. I mean separating cars and trucks before an interchange so that slower and faster traffic can merge separately.

Sorry. I got confused. Turns out it's the I-5/ CA14 interchange I was talking about:

http://i49.tinypic.com/25ge803.jpg

love highway I95 going from miami all the way to pensilvenia

Sorry. I got confused. Turns out it's the I-5/ CA14 interchange I was talking about:

http://i49.tinypic.com/25ge803.jpg

That would be a good idea whenever a major grade to ascend is involved since trucks are heavier and their brakes have more work to do, so maybe other western states might have it.

Civil and Environmental Engineering at UC Berkeley.

Ahh I'll just have to cross my fingers. I'm thinking about doing structural engineering.

I think I might have posted this a few months (years?) ago. Here's a planned interchange between I-90 and I-405 in Seattle, with not only regular ramps, but also direct access HOV ramps from either highway. I personally think it's too big and that we should be focusing on other solutions instead of constant expansion. But here it is anyway:

Existing:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/EFF239DD-827B-4A98-A0A1-4EA9B74BC43A/0/Funded_rendering.jpg

Master Plan:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F646C431-B54E-413E-87F0-C97AF4798B02/0/MasterPlanI90_I405_web.jpg

The downside of those HOV-lanes western USA loves so much is indeed huge interchanges.

I think the 405/5 merge north of LA is really cool. (cars and trucks merging separately)

Are there other examples of this outside of CA or outside of the US ?

German A7×A5 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40297532&postcount=2092), if coming from Kassel on A7.

The downside of those HOV-lanes western USA loves so much is indeed huge interchanges.

This is a downside?

Ahh I'll just have to cross my fingers. I'm thinking about doing structural engineering.



By the time youre out things will have turned around I'll bet.

^^Sure hope so.

A cool overpass on SR520 in Washington.

http://www.redmond.gov/community/overlake/pdfs/NE3631StreetBridgeMap.pdf

^^Sure hope so.

A cool overpass on SR520 in Washington.

http://www.redmond.gov/community/overlake/pdfs/NE3631StreetBridgeMap.pdf

very nice design indeed