$65m seems incredibly cheap. :banana:

I wonder if the new Interstate will end at I-435 or be cosigned to a junction with one of the mainline Interstates.
http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2010/08/04/19/I-49_jpeg.embedded.prod_affiliate.81.jpg

Freeway interchange Chandler Arizona (Loop 202 and Price Fwy)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2705020201_d8fd6a14b1_o_d.jpg

That is pretty sweet, looks like they paid lots of detail into aesthetics.

Yeah, what can you make out of sand and concrete? :lol:

A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.

A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.

I don't think space is an issue in Arizona :lol:

from: weau.com
State predicts gates at virtually all I-94 on-ramps in 6-10 years
You could soon see more gates at freeway on-ramps as the state tries to keep drivers safe during emergencies.
Reporter:
Andrew Fefer

While he only uses I-94 two or three times a month, David Stratton says he's familiar with the reason why crews put in gates at the on-ramp from State Highway 93 a few years ago.
“South Dakota, North Dakota have had that for a long time, and that just makes all the sense in the world,” he said. Now he's looking forward to the construction of more like it.
“Often times this does relate to weather, when we have our heavy snows and stuff,” said Lieutenant Jeff Lorentz of the Wisconsin State Patrol. He says the state will putting four of them at the U.S. Highway 53 interchange next year.
“It's our most complicated interchange that we have, and typically to close that interchange, it takes six officers,” he said.
Then he hopes more go up in metro areas, and at interchanges that road crews work on.
“If we can reduce the traffic flow whether its a haz-mat incident, or again, a traffic accident, or even an emergency medical situation, it only enhances the life safety,” said Deputy Chief Lyle Koerner of the Eau Claire Fire Department.
The DOT says the new gates would have an arm that comes down, similar to what you would see at a railroad crossing. They're not automated, and Lorentz says they're worth the $9,000 to $14,000 estimate the state says it will pay for each gate.
“The payback is very short-term,” Lt. Lorentz said. “Less than five years, probably in three years is when we'll pay back in the labor use alone.”
“I don't know if I'd really agree with that, but I guess they'll do what they want with their money,” Keelan Gilbertson said. “Whatever our opinions are, they'll still do what they want to do.”
David says the price doesn't give him sticker-shock.
“Right now, of course, we're all trying to save money, but sometimes we have to just bite the bullet and go ahead.”
Even though it is a measure designed to keep freeway drivers from "going ahead" once in a while.
The DOT says it's also starting to plan for surveillance cameras and electronic signs to tell drivers about changing conditions between Baldwin and Black River Falls. It hasn't released exactly where they would go, when they'd be installed, or how much all that would cost.


http://images.clickability.com/pti/spacer.gif

Find this article at:
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/101435864.html?storySection=story

^^
WisDOT installed these blizzard gates at several US 41 interchanges here in Appleton earlier this year, too.

Yes, I can see why they'd be a long-term better deal than the barricades that I often see stored at various freeway on-ramps, and especially for those interchanges where they are not (each ramp in the latter case needs to tie up at least one police car for the duration for such 'short notice' closures).

Mike

^^
WisDOT installed these blizzard gates at several US 41 interchanges here in Appleton earlier this year, too.

Yes, I can see why they'd be a long-term better deal than the barricades that I often see stored at various freeway on-ramps, and especially for those interchanges where they are not (each ramp in the latter case needs to tie up at least one police car for the duration for such 'short notice' closures).

Mike

I always wondered what those were. I've never seen any in Illinois.

I'm not from the USA but looking GE I can see that a lot of the bigger cities in USA have this problem. Large empty patches of land where used to be homes right next to Downtown...

But you need someone who wants to live in these dense neighborhoods close to downtowns. Most people simply prefer large house with garden than small condo in multistory building. Do you want to force people to live there?

I'm not trying to intentionally derail this thread, I came here to look for any news on I-49.

But I can't leave this alone.

First off, how big is Atlanta, or Houston, or Dallas? Between 4-5 million people.

Lets make a conservative estimate, that most of the population still wanted to live in the suburbs. But then what if even 1% of the population, perhaps currently living in garden apartment complexes, would be willing to trade in for an urban lifestyle. That would give you between 40,000 and 50,000 people. That may be students, the elderly, gays, singles, who knows, who just want an apartment near things and don't want to worry about a yard, etc.

In the US, maybe an option for revitalizing cities would not be to recreate Manhattan, but look to the outer boroughs of New York or parts of Chicago for inspiration. A mix of closely spaced semi or detached homes and small 3-4 story apartments, with major streets lined with a little larger buildings that have shops and things on the bottom and the occasional midrise. Maybe this is not dense or even urban by European or even Northeastern US standards, but in a sunbelt city it would be something completely different.

Looking at the density of existing places which take this form, it seems like you'd have a density of maybe 10,000 people per square mile. So with 40 to 50k people, that would be about 4 to 5 square miles.

That is not a very large area at all. But go back to Google Earth and measure the size of the downtown adjacent dead zones in a place like Atlanta. I believe it would be completely feasible for the city to infill this space with new housing. What would the benefits be? It would make the city as a whole more attractive, it would dilute the presence of poverty, people who had a stake in a neighborhood would be more vigilant for crime, etc.

I-494 and MN-5 (Airport Interchange) in Bloomington, Minnesota; Mall of America is in the background.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/3349282913_e045485a20_b.jpg
(courtesy of "MSPdude". link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mspdude/3349282913/))

$65m seems incredibly cheap. :banana:

I wonder if the new Interstate will end at I-435 or be cosigned to a junction with one of the mainline Interstates.
http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2010/08/04/19/I-49_jpeg.embedded.prod_affiliate.81.jpg

Bella Vista? Is that a city? I've never heard of it. :?

A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.

I think a four-level stack would be unnecessarily more expensive where a three-level stack would be sufficient.

I-270 South going from Frederick towards Urbana Maryland.
cc: Myself
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8929/dsc04327g.jpg

I took sum Interstate shots today in Jersey City , and Manhattan

I-78 Holland Tunnel Approach in Manhattan

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4932940247_4d5dd54d87_b.jpg

Canal Street Entrance

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4932940481_865a40d0cf_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4933534082_312899e7c2_b.jpg

Jersey City Holland Tunnel Exit with New Welcome sigh in Newport JC

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4932946345_9812292dd5_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4933539994_9d68f1a325_b.jpg

Holland Tunnel Portal & Toll gate

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4932946519_e36f167712_b.jpg

Jersey City Skyway / I-78 Liberty state Park in JC

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4932958159_fd93a169db_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4932958539_345a76ea27_b.jpg

~Corey

This is a special series of news reports about Interstate 95 from NPR. It runs through Labor Day.

Interstate 95 may be one of the least romantic roads ever built. But what it lacks in beauty, it makes up for in utility. How has this asphalt Amazon transformed the economy of the Eastern Seaboard?


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129278775

Atlanta has the eggs-in-one-basket policy, where there's only one freeway - for long distance through and local traffic, heading North-South.

Parallel freeways would help the traffic, but there's nothing stopping a decent transit line/system being built (as well preferably) to take some of the internal city traffic off the freeway 'network' (in quotes as it's not really a net - just a couple of spokes that diverge and a loop or two).

Well, there is 285.

^^
(I am assuming that those two above maps are of the same scale)
Also note how the Frankfort-Main area is far, far more densely developed than the Atlanta area - nearly the entire land area on the above map of metro Atlanta is built out with very-low density style development while that map of Frankfort-Main still includes oodles of rural farmland.

Besides that spread-out low density development within the metro area, I-75/85 in central Atlanta is so wide and carries so much traffic because a freeway that was planned to parallel that one to the east (it was to connect I-675 with GA 400) was never built.

Also, why is transit such an insignificant part of the metro Atlanta transport scene? Atlanta has a heavy-rail transit system ('MARTA') - BUT - Metro Atlanta has about the worst city vs. suburb political divide of any of the metros anywhere in the USA. Why don't the suburbanites want MARTA rail service? BECAUSE IT SERVES THE CITY OF ATLANTA! Seriously! (I'd tell you a commonly-used wording for the acronym 'MARTA', which means 'Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority', but I'll not to avoid being banned from SSC.)

:ohno:

Mike

Being politically correct, much of the Southern USA cities like Atlanta and Birmingham have a setup like South Africa where the Whites with the majority of money live in one area and the blacks that are socio-economically worse off live in another and up until the last 15-20 years ago, didn't mix with each other in the sense of neighborhoods.

Luckily in both cases, gentrification is taking hold in the Urban areas and in the Suburbs, it's becoming more and more racially mixed.

When it comes to urban comparisons, the Southern USA and South Africa do share many parallels(though thank God that for all that the Jim Crow era was, it never got close to being Apartheid-oppressive).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/I-5.svg/70px-I-5.svg.png Portland, OR
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1197/i5portland.jpg

I-494 and MN-5 (Airport Interchange) in Bloomington, Minnesota; Mall of America is in the background.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/3349282913_e045485a20_b.jpg
(courtesy of "MSPdude". link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mspdude/3349282913/))

Nice pic.

I-494 from Route 100 to the airport is a mess for a large % of the day. Almost every time going down it when in the area in the summer, I was in a traffic jam.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/I-5.svg/70px-I-5.svg.png Portland, OR
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1197/i5portland.jpg

Notice how the main I-5 route is mostly traffic-free. This isn't that unusual. The backup is due to underbuilt access from I-5 NB to I-84 EB. I know of no plans to improve this connection. In addition, the whole section of freeway is ugly and built to utilitarian standards. I believe there are some who would like to rebuild this entire section somewhat to the east, (reclaiming the river waterfront) and mostly underground, but with today's budgets won't happen anytime soon.

Live streaming video of I-40 in Raleigh-Durham, NC:
http://www.wral.com/traffic/video/6763278/

Oddball interchange in Chesterfield County, VA
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I895_I95_Int.jpg
(courtesy of http://www.roadstothefuture.com)

Is that I-95 at Pocahontas Parkway near Richmond? It's "odd" because the bridge carrying Pocahontas Pkwy over the James River needs to have an usually high clearance for an inland bridge because the river is navigable to ocean-going vessels all the way to Richmond!

Yep, I've seen videos of that interchange, it's huge. The fly-overs must be one of the tallest in the country.

I hear they are building a third highway loop around Houston. It's a State Highway 99 or Grand Parkway.

More info and detailed map here: http://www.grandpky.com/segments/default.asp

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7159/grandk.jpg

They are also expanding Highway 290.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5218/290t.jpg

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7647763
http://www.my290.com

The overall vision for the US 290 Program includes:

* Freeway capacity reconstruction and widening from IH 610 to FM 2920 to create:
o Five general-purpose lanes in each direction from IH 610 to just west of SH 6, plus auxiliary lanes where appropriate
o Four general-purpose lanes in each direction from just west of SH 6 to near the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway, plus auxiliary lanes
o Three general-purpose lanes in each direction from near the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway to the west study limit, plus auxiliary lanes
o Two- or three-lane frontage roads in each direction throughout the corridor

ALSO:

* A four-lane, two-way managed lanes facility along Hempstead Tollway from IH 610 to the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway
* Two non-tolled frontage road lanes in each direction to be reconstructed along Hempstead Tollway from IH 610 to Beltway 8
* US 290 METRO HOV operations moved to the Hempstead Tollway managed toll lanes
* Proposed high-capacity transit corridor located along Hempstead Tollway
* Bicycle and pedestrian improvements

Proposed expansion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzmQo_qa0U
Beltway 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-wmD_Sk0-E

Any other Houston roads planned for expansion?

I wonder what it's like to live in such a sprawled-out city as Houston. Is it even possible to get from any point to another in less than an hour?

Houston was actually the only city to reduce congestion between 1990 and 2005 or so. But you're right, the city is huge, but then again, the population is almost 6 million, which would be a world city with that size. The only thing different from east coast cities is that there are no dense residential areas at all. Everything are detached homes, because the city developed much later than east coast cities. Houston had only 300,000 inhabitants in 1930.

I wonder what it's like to live in such a sprawled-out city as Houston. Is it even possible to get from any point to another in less than an hour?

Houston, with its two (soon to be three) beltways, is actually less sprawled than Atlanta. Beltway 8 is only a few miles farther from downtown Houston than I-285 is from downtown Atlanta. Houston is big, but you can get from one end to the other in about an hour during most times of the day outside rush hour.

Houston, with its two (soon to be three) beltways, is actually less sprawled than Atlanta. Beltway 8 is only a few miles farther from downtown Houston than I-285 is from downtown Atlanta. Houston is big, but you can get from one end to the other in about an hour during most times of the day outside rush hour.
One does have to remember that (at least within the city limits of the City of Houston), there is no municipal zoning law, so residential developers have a fairly wide latitude on how densely they can build their developments whereas in the Atlanta area, the city and its suburban areas are heavily zoned and those jurisdictions have very low legal unit density limits.

Thus, to me, it is no surprise that metro Houston is more dense and less 'sprawled out' than metro Atlanta.

Mike

I wonder if this third beltway, if actually completed, will be built to Interstate standard. The name "Grand Parkway" is obvious, but I think with growth in the area, it can't simply be a narrow highway. Plus, would be nice to see a new Interstate designation. :D

Also, I read once that the Beltway 8 tollway is not even completed on the Northeast side of the city, it's just frontage roads.

I wonder if this third beltway, if actually completed, will be built to Interstate standard. The name "Grand Parkway" is obvious, but I think with growth in the area, it can't simply be a narrow highway. Plus, would be nice to see a new Interstate designation. :D

Also, I read once that the Beltway 8 tollway is not even completed on the Northeast side of the city, it's just frontage roads.

Probably not fully interstate standard, but it will be limited access like Beltway 8 eventually. The Grand Parkway is being built with future limited-access upgrades in mind: meaning there are no access rights to the road itself to private businesses or small residential side streets, sufficient right of way exists from the beginning, and all intersections that are signalized are a certain distance apart and built with future overpasses in mind. Take a look at the southern half of the existing section of the road in Ft Bend County and you'll see what I mean.

That Northeast section of Beltway 8 is being upgraded to limited access as we speak. The new limited-access toll lanes (which will basically be the Sam Houston Tollway NE section) are under construction now. I think it's supposed to be complete next year.

US interchange are absolutely amazing

The term "longest planned beltway in the world" is quite dubious.

Some projects I know (motorway/freeway status);

* Центральная кольцевая автомобильная дорога (CKAD) - Moscow: 522 km
* State Route 840 - Nashville: 287 km
* Grand Parkway - Houston: 274 km

The current longest full beltway is the A10 around Berlin, Germany, which is 196 km long. The M25 around London is slightly shorter at 188 km.

Some projects I know (motorway/freeway status);

* Центральная кольцевая автомобильная дорога (CKAD) - Moscow: 522 km
* State Route 840 - Nashville: 287 km
* Grand Parkway - Houston: 274 km


one more:
* Big Beltway of Warsaw (DK50/62, planned upgrade to freeway): about 300 km

Topic for beltways:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=744080

This is for US I-states, like I-99 and I-238.
PS: Once, I drawn a 2nd beltway for Washington DC and called it I-666 :D.

New BGS arrows

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/4019973611_40c87cbbd3_b.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2632/4019965541_021b4a0e29_b.jpg
(both are coutresy of: "ssoworld (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/)")
Those arrows look so wimpy. :lol:

So weird. And a waste of sign space.

^Really? You don't like them?

I think the new arrows do a much nicer job of explaining how a "decision lane" is going to split then the current signage.

I'll admit the ramp signage seems like overkill.

They're clearer indeed, but I prefer the German style-arrows. They just look better and require less space.

It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.

They could be one-half that size and be equally as visible and legible. That makes them a waste of sign space.

It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.

I know, highway signage should be masculine and powerful. With such weak legible signage, the communists will surely be invading any day now.

The arrows look too long and could be bit thicker. IMHO

I had no idea people actually had opinions on arrows' thickness! I don't see anything wrong with these ones.

I-10 Katy Freeway, Houston, Texas

The I-10 in West Houston has recently been widened to as much as 24 lanes, when taking frontage roads into account. West of I-610, there are 16 through lanes, and 8 frontage road lanes. The carriageways are split up in a general purpose section and a toll/HOV section.

http://i56.tinypic.com/4twrpg.jpg

4+8+8+4 :)
http://i54.tinypic.com/ou2vdj.jpg

Yesterday I drove I-16 from US 25-301 near Statesboro to its eastern end in Macon. There's an 18 mile section (mile 13-31 IIRC) that was completed in the early '70s on which the concrete pavement of the right lanes is badly deteriorated. At present the left lanes are closed and a wide concrete left shoulder is being installed. The new shoulder looks to be eight feet wide, two thirds the width of a traffic lane, and the slope toward the median is very visible. I think that there'll be a second phase in which the right lane and shoulder will be removed and replaced, with the new left shoulder providing room for a detour lane and barricades while the work progresses.

Cable rails are being installed on Georgia's Interstates, but none have been installed here as yet. Perhaps their installation has been deferred in order to maintain cross-median access for construction crews during the next phase.

I don't recall having seen anything like this before, though the recent reconstruction of I-85 from Newnan to Fairburn has added a new lane (not opened to traffic!) on the left and removed and replaced the original two right lanes, leaving intact the second lane from the left, which was built in the mid '90's.

I took I-74 from Greensburg (it's between Indianapolis and Cincy). The road's in pretty bad shape for most part. The rest areas are pretty good though, better than the few others I've stopped at.

It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.

I agree. I don't like the look.

Some photos i took of the NYC Holland Tunnel approach.

7th Avenue & Vandam Street

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/4978231876_7eee1f4ed7_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/4978231954_197ec98e17_b.jpg

7th Avenue & Broome Street

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4978232224_74f78b0343_b.jpg

7th Avenue Portal

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/4977622475_d07d96ecae_b.jpg

7th & Canal Street

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/4978232452_02ba92cdda_b.jpg

Offical end of I-78 / Holland Tunnel exit loop

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/4978232620_af124a1ac3_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/4978232822_e2fdae4728_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/4978231954_197ec98e17_b.jpg


I don't get the 'only' in the sign.
Only what?

I don't get the 'only' in the sign.
Only what?

It means that both of the indicated lanes go only to Lower Manhattan, rather than one being an optional lane from which you can reach the Holland Tunnel. On a freeway the sign would say "EXIT ONLY," but this is just a city street.

EDIT: That introduces the obvious question: Why doesn't this sign:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/4978232452_02ba92cdda_b.jpg

have one, too? I don't know. :(

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.722632,-74.006374&spn=0,0.009602&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.722688,-74.006457&panoid=96ZMy3tm8i8GApKLLuSWEw&cbp=12,340.86,,0,-3.55

Yesterday I drove I-16 from US 25-301 near Statesboro to its eastern end in Macon. There's an 18 mile section (mile 13-31 IIRC) that was completed in the early '70s on which the concrete pavement of the right lanes is badly deteriorated. At present the left lanes are closed and a wide concrete left shoulder is being installed. The new shoulder looks to be eight feet wide, two thirds the width of a traffic lane, and the slope toward the median is very visible. I think that there'll be a second phase in which the right lane and shoulder will be removed and replaced, with the new left shoulder providing room for a detour lane and barricades while the work progresses.

Cable rails are being installed on Georgia's Interstates, but none have been installed here as yet. Perhaps their installation has been deferred in order to maintain cross-median access for construction crews during the next phase.

I don't recall having seen anything like this before, though the recent reconstruction of I-85 from Newnan to Fairburn has added a new lane (not opened to traffic!) on the left and removed and replaced the original two right lanes, leaving intact the second lane from the left, which was built in the mid '90's.

I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense :)

Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.

Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.

I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense :)

Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.

Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.

Georgia has some of the best-maintained roads of any state in the country, it's easy to fall asleep while driving on them.

I think Tennessee has some of the best maintained highways in the country.

It means that both of the indicated lanes go only to Lower Manhattan, rather than one being an optional lane from which you can reach the Holland Tunnel. On a freeway the sign would say "EXIT ONLY," but this is just a city street.

EDIT: That introduces the obvious question: Why doesn't this sign]

I think it is because at that point you still have the chance to change lanes whereas there are pylons where there is an ONLY on the sign. In California, the ONLY frequently shows on the sign when the lane lines become thicker, which indicates that the lanes will be breaking away shortly.

I think Tennessee has some of the best maintained highways in the country.

From what I hear from certain gray-haired sources, they appear to have swapped places with Virginia. (This might have happened through the 80s... not sure when, but before my time)

I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense :)

With as little traffic as I-16 carries, it'd probably be a good idea to go to 1+1 on one roadway while the other was rebuilt.

I-16 used to be regarded as a joke because of the tiny traffic volumes it carried and the consequent lack of services. That plus the fact that the first completed major section was in the middle. :ohno:

I still don't like it, and I take state highways and an hour's worth of I-20 to go between Statesboro and my house in Lawrenceville (according to Google Maps, it's shorter by distance, and any chance of rush hour traffic trashes the supposed time advantage of taking Interstates), but I have to admit that it doesn't seem as brutal as it used to. There's enough traffic to keep me awake, and enough tweaks to the highway over time to pique my interest as a roadgeek.

Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.

The day before, I drove between Statesboro and Savannah. :banana:

Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.

I don't get around much, but I don't see much difference compared to our neighboring states. OTOH, Georgia accomplishes what it does with a ridiculously low fuel tax.

I-16 is probably more important for freight carriage than passenger traffic.

Interesting article from the NY Times about the US's only totally metric interstate, I-19.


Metric Interstate Divides Arizonans
By MARC LACEY
Published: September 14, 2010

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/15/us/HIGHWAY-1/HIGHWAY-1-popup.jpg
Metric signs direct drivers heading south on Interstate 19 in Santa Cruz County, Ariz.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/15/us/HIGHWAY-2/HIGHWAY-2-popup.jpg
Interstate 19 in southern Arizona is a metric-only highway.

GREEN VALLEY, Ariz. — It is not the mountains or the cactuses that stand out most while driving Interstate 19 from the Mexican border to Tucson. It’s the signs.

Distance along I-19 is measured in kilometers, just as it is in Mexico. That means highway markers advise that there are three kilometers until the next gas station, four until the next rest stop, seven until the next desert town.

But the distinctive signs’ days may be, well, numbered.

The Arizona Department of Transportation says the 400 signs along the I-19’s 100 kilometers are too old and need to be replaced. The new signs, officials say, would be like all the others in the state and would indicate distance in miles. Exit numbers would be reconfigured as well.

A throwback to an American experiment with the metric system in the early 1980s that did not get far off the ground, the signs not only indicate the number of kilometers to the next exit, but also the exit numbers themselves coincide with the number of kilometers from Nogales, which abuts the border.

“It’s a bit different,” acknowledged Jim DiGiacomo, executive director of the Green Valley-Sahuarita Chamber of Commerce, who has been driving I-19 since the highway was completed in the late 1970s.

If the signs are changed to miles, that would mean that the Inn at San Ignacio, in the retirement community of Green Valley, would no longer be off Exit 56.

“You’d think it wouldn’t be a big deal, but it is,” said the inn’s owner, Jim Green, who wants the metric signs to stay put. “Think about how much money my company has spent directing people to Exit 56. Think about the literature, the brochures, the tour books.”

Some who live along I-19 do not particularly care for the signs, saying they look foreign, are confusing and serve no purpose now that the United States has decided not to give an inch to the metric system.

State officials had originally planned to use $1.5 million in federal stimulus money to replace the signs, prompting Sean Hannity, the conservative Fox News commentator, to lampoon the project last year as one of the most wasteful uses of taxpayer dollars.

It was local opposition to the changeover along I-19, however, that prompted the state to slow the process and miss the March 2 deadline to spend the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money on the overhaul. The project, which the state calls a “safety priority” because the old signs are not reflective enough at night, is now suspended.

“We know there are diverse opinions about the current signs,” said Timothy Tait, a spokesman for the Transportation Department, indicating that a decision on the I-19 signs would have to be made in the “short term.”

State transportation officials had come up with what they thought was a compromise: converting the signs to miles but also making note of the old exit numbers. So the sign for the new Exit 43, on Duval Mine Road in Sahuarita, would also have indicated “Old Exit 69.”

That approach, state officials said, would have given businesses plenty of time to update their addresses.

But some supporters of the metric signs bring up another argument for keeping them in place: the idiosyncratic signs help put the communities along I-19, which include Rio Rico, Tubac and Amado and the San Xavier Indian Reservation, on the map.

The U.S. Metric Association, a group based in California that advocates conversion to the metric system, has tallied numerous metric signs around the country, most near the borders with Canada and Mexico. But I-19 may be the only Interstate highway that is almost completely metric, making it stand out from all the other stretches of concrete crisscrossing the country.

“I’ve been in the hotel business since 1997,” Mr. Green said, “and I’ve been asked by my guests thousands of times about the metric signs. They aren’t complaining. They are intrigued.”

He said he knew of no drivers who had overshot their desired exit because they were not aware that a kilometer is equal to 0.6 miles. “Someone may think they have five miles to go and they have less than five miles, but so what?” Mr. Green said.

I-19 is one of the nation’s shortest Interstates but one still lined with attractions. There is a decommissioned Titan II intercontinental ballistic missile at Exit 69 that tourists wearing hard hats can inspect in its underground silo. There is the Desert Diamond Casino 11 kilometers to the north. And 34 kilometers from the border is the artist community of Tubac, home to a Spanish fort dating to 1752.

“We’re used to the signs,” said Mr. DiGiacomo, the business leader. “We did a survey, and most of our members think they should stay the way they are. Leave well enough alone. We think it would cause more confusion if they changed it.”



Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/us/15highway.html)

What i waste of tax payer $$$$ , spend it on something else.:ohno:

Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.

The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.

Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.

What i waste of tax payer $$$$ , spend it on something else.:ohno:

What's wasteful about replacing out of date signs?

It was local opposition to the changeover along I-19, however, that prompted the state to slow the process and miss the March 2 deadline to spend the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money on the overhaul. The project, which the state calls a “safety priority” because the old signs are not reflective enough at night, is now suspended.

i began reading this thread from the first response until i reached #2 and saw the response. first, i realized that the validity of the argument was w/out merit simply on the basis of the violation of federal government mandates regarding the violation of constitutional rights based on race, creed, color, national origin, ethnicity, etc. consequently, as these are mandated protected classes, the premise was already in its argument. if it were not for this argument, i think it could be a partial---or at least a workable version for the current quagmire facing the city of memphis regarding the use of city thoroughfares by suburbanites into and out of the city for work, entertainment, and other reasons. as they are suburbnites, and do not pay the same tax structure as the citizens of memphis, their taxes are much lower, but they enjoy the many 12 lane expressways into and out of the city daily. tolls have been suggested as a means to collect revenue from those who fail to hold a city identification card indicating their taxation in both the city and the county. perhaps, even though this subject is not on point, someone might have experienced something similar or something a bit more fair to all in the city proper, the county, and the metro in general. shelby county is not a consolidated government, and therefore taxes are lower for county residents. residents in the city proper pay both city and county taxes, and commuters living in 7 additional counties---2 in tn, in addition to shelby, 4 in ms, and 1 in arkansas. consolidation of shelby county is on the ballot for the nov 2 election; however, it is, after three previous attempts, almost a dead horse already. shelby county has roughly 1 million residents, but the city proper has about 700,000+ residents.

a similar use of services by metro residents has existed for many years concerning one of the level 1 trauma centers known as "the med" in the center city in memphis. it is the busiest trauma 1 center in the united states, and it serves memphis, the surrounding metro tn counties, the memphis ms metro counties, and the metro west memphis, arkansas county of crittenden. until about 6 months ago ms and arkansas did not want to pay for their citizens' use of the facility. after the rather forceful meeting, which outlined the expectations, if services were going to continue, arkansas and ms agreed to contribute an amount acceptable to all involved.

as i understand, most of america's 20 largest cities do not have metro governments. does anyone have any off-the-cuff suggestions or ideas about the usefulness of metro government in general, and/or the best method of collecting the untaxed, who use services paid for by the taxed?

http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930

TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange in Memphis, TN that will construct free-flow lanes for the I-55 through turns there, while replacing the current cloverleaf interchange with a five point two-lane roundabout that will provide improved access for the local streets and neighborhoods - all while requiring the acquisition and removal of *NO* buildings or houses.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.123612,-90.069008&spn=0.010214,0.021973&t=k&z=16
I-55 comes in from the south, turns left at the cloverleaf and crosses the bridge over the Mississippi River to the west.

No word on its expected construction schedule.

I like this one.

:cheers1:

Mike

Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.

The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.

Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.

There are some scattered about in random locations. I remember driving up the 101 in LA area and there were metric/imperial signs. They are also the dark board with reflecting letters signs that will eventually be replaced. I think now that they have switched to the entire sign being reflective, that the white letters on green (which is lighter than the old green) does not provide enough contrast at night.

http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930

TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange in Memphis, TN that will construct free-flow lanes for the I-55 through turns there, while replacing the current cloverleaf interchange with a five point two-lane roundabout that will provide improved access for the local streets and neighborhoods - all while requiring the acquisition and removal of *NO* buildings or houses.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.123612,-90.069008&spn=0.010214,0.021973&t=k&z=16
I-55 comes in from the south, turns left at the cloverleaf and crosses the bridge over the Mississippi River to the west.

No word on its expected construction schedule.

I like this one.

:cheers1:

Mike

About time they fix that. It's usually faster to take 240 North to 40 West because of that bottleneck.

Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.

The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.

Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.

What we use works just fine for us.

What we use works just fine for us.

I don't think so, its only used by 2 countries in the northern hemisphere......

You've got to be realistic and accept that in the real world, everyone uses the SI units of measurement. All your Exports to Europe are required to be labeled in Metric Units only.

I have no idea why you're against going metric. Yes, it takes effort but look at other countries that switched - they had no problems, did they? For example, Ireland went metric in 2005 from MPH to Km/h without any serious issues.

Again with the metric vs imperial? I doubt anything's changed since the last 5 times this discussion was had.

Because you can't join a "high kilometer club". :D

A cool night video of I-110 in Los Angeles. You can see a double HOV-lane here, I believe that's quite a rare feature.



L.A. will be your future home?

[b]75/121 construction in Dallas

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4850751827_662f7ae0ce_b_d.jpg


Wow, that's fucking nice.

http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930

TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange...

I like this one.

:cheers1:

Mike

I never would've predicted this. Seems a bit underpowered-- to me, it's easy to imagine traffic backed up onto the mainline on the northbound exit to the roundabout. I predict that most of that ramp will be two lanes to provide more storage capacity. Plus, heavy traffic on the southbound entry to I-55 from the roundabout will surely make it nearly impossible for southbound I-55 motorists to exit at McLemore Avenue, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I suppose they could take the preceding exit and go through the roundabout themselves if there's advance notification.

Maintaining traffic during construction should be fun. Maybe a much larger temporary roundabout during removal of the existing bridge and regrading of the eventual roundabout site?

Kilometers are for pussies.

I never would've predicted this. Seems a bit underpowered-- to me, it's easy to imagine traffic backed up onto the mainline on the northbound exit to the roundabout. I predict that most of that ramp will be two lanes to provide more storage capacity. Plus, heavy traffic on the southbound entry to I-55 from the roundabout will surely make it nearly impossible for southbound I-55 motorists to exit at McLemore Avenue, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I suppose they could take the preceding exit and go through the roundabout themselves if there's advance notification.

Maintaining traffic during construction should be fun. Maybe a much larger temporary roundabout during removal of the existing bridge and regrading of the eventual roundabout site?
You'd be surprised at the traffic throughput capacity of roundabouts once the locals get accustomed to them and how they work and are to be driven.

Mike

Wow, that's f***ing nice.
Interestingly, that's not an interstate interchange - that's where US 75/TX 121 meet. OTOH, yes, both highways are built to full interstate standards.

:nuts:

:lol:

Mike

Kilometers are for pussies.

Ha! It's true

Kilometers are for pussies.

It would be annoying to rename Detroit's Mile roads. :lol:

4 mile road becomes 6.4 km road.

Interestingly, that's not an interstate interchange - that's where US 75/TX 121 meet. OTOH, yes, both highways are built to full interstate standards.

:nuts:

:lol:

Mike

It's likely in the distant future that US 75 will become an extension of I-45, but that's decades from now.

Highway deaths fall to lowest level since 1950

By KEN THOMAS (AP) – Sep 9, 2010

WASHINGTON — Traffic deaths have plummeted across the United States to levels not seen in more than a half-century, spurred by technology, safety-conscious drivers and tougher enforcement of drunken driving laws.

The Transportation Department said Thursday that traffic deaths fell 9.7 percent in 2009 to 33,808, the lowest number since 1950. In 2008, an estimated 37,423 people died on the highways.

Government and auto safety experts attributed the improvement to more people buckling up, side air bags and anti-rollover technology in more vehicles and a focus in many states on curbing drinking and driving. Economic conditions were also a factor.


Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood called the new data "a landmark achievement for public health and safety" but cautioned that too many people are killed on the road each year. "While we've come a long way," he said, "we have a long distance yet to travel."

Forty-one states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico saw reductions in highway fatalities, led by Florida with 422 fewer deaths and Texas, down 405.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jZWXMAKDL1hNsWENCsKsChdohh1gD9I4IG281

The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States.

I always feel underaged DUI could be a major factor in the United States, as well as more weather-related fatalities than in Europe. It can't be the speed limits, which are way lower in the US than in most of Europe.

Driver training in the United states verges on the pathetic to the non-existent.

I lived there for two years and in that time I saw more examples of dangerous driving and hare-brained exploits than my entire driving life back in the UK.

Considering the huge emphasis placed on building safe roads (gradual curves and wide lanes and shoulders) and abundance of automatic transmissions in cars, you would think the roads would be some of the most refined and relaxed in the world.

Very poor show.

The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States.The UK didn't - but it's started dropping back again - '98 to '06 was pretty much stagnation in fatality reduction, while similar countries - Germany, The Netherlands - overtook us as having the safest roads, because they massively reduced their fatalities.

Is the USA that bad compared to Western Europe when you factor in people-miles? 33,800 is about 11 times bigger than the UK, but the Us has 5 times the population, and is spatially a lot bigger, so that sounds not horrifically bad.

The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States.

I always feel underaged DUI could be a major factor in the United States, as well as more weather-related fatalities than in Europe. It can't be the speed limits, which are way lower in the US than in most of Europe.

Per billions of km traveled the US is comparable to most European countries the US has 8.5 deaths per billion vechical/km. Austria= 8.8 Belgium= 10.8, France= 7.7 Germany= 6.5 Denmark=8.2, the Netherlands= 7.7, the UK=5.0. Now per capita death are generally death higher, but Americans drive much more and I think that skews the numbers. When compared to the amount actually driven there isn't a big difference.


http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/irtad/pdf/risk.pdf

Wow that Dutch figure is outdated. 650 fatalities on 199 billion km = 3.3 not 7.7.

Interesting to note the US seems to score twice as bad on freeways than Europe.

I think it goes back to our drivers being some of the worst in the western world and dependence on the car to get everywhere as to why we have so many accidents.

^^
It should be noted in this discussion that there is missing point. How expensive is it to save additional life on the roads compared to saving someone by providing e.g. quality healthcare. Or by providing other public goods than just road safety.

We don't usually see people dying from cancer on the news. There is no action about it. However van piercing a truck is very messy business...

That being said I am not against increasing safety standards... just that the marginal value of this should be compared with other means of spending public money.

This is however pricing human life and thats what people let alone polititians don't like to do.

Change of topic, here's a video of the Katy Freeway (I-10): one of the most impressive sections of highway in the USA.

d56uU_gpHcg&hd=1

I'm not really a fan of frontage roads along highways, but it's HOV system should be a model for all others. Very well implemented.

I think it goes back to (...) dependence on the car to get everywhere as to why we have so many accidents.

That does not explain the factor 2 gap between many EU countries and the US. Automobile usage in Europe is not that much lower than the United States, approximately 92% vs 84%.

Is that car ownership or annual miles driven?

Modal split.

Car ownership is higher in the US because it is generally too expensive to keep an old, little-used car in Europe. Even a 15 year old car which drives 1,000 miles per year can cost you as much as $ 2,000 per year in fees, gas, insurance and vehicle inspections.

However, car ownership does not indicate automobile usage. For example, the modal split is 92% car, and 8% other in the US, with a car ownership of 765 vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants, while it is 82% car and 18% other in the Netherlands at 460 vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants. So car ownership does not translate directly in modal split.

Yea I understand but I'd think that the average American drives more miles annually thus increasing the risk. Are there any stats out there?

Average UK driver travels 7755 miles a year

http://www.roadrecord.co.uk/news/article/uk-mileage-reaches-lunar-proportions

Average USA driver travels 12000 miles a year

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1608077


So the average american only travels about 4245 miles more than the average Brit (154%) yet americans are three and a half times (350%) more likely to be killed in an accident.

3.59 vs 12.3 (per 100,000 inhabitants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Average UK driver travels 7755 miles a year

http://www.roadrecord.co.uk/news/article/uk-mileage-reaches-lunar-proportions

Average USA driver travels 12000 miles a year

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1608077


So the average american only travels about 4245 miles more than the average Brit (154%) yet americans are three and a half times (350%) more likely to be killed in an accident.

3.59 vs 12.3 (per 100,000 inhabitants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Also keep in mind that we've got a lot more open rural roads without much traffic, where people are more likely to drive too fast. Britain has more traffic and fewer rural areas with such roads. Plus there's a term I think is relevant... "Driving culture."

The most dangerous roads, statistically speaking, are two-lane rural roads. That is where most fatalities relative to a billion driving miles happen. City streets are next, and freeways are the safest, although it seems weird that the U.S. freeway fatalities are so much higher than in most of Europe.

Alright well then again I think it just leads back to Americans lacking driving skills.

Alright well then again I think it just leads back to Americans lacking driving skills.

Yea , Unfortnatly thats another thing were behind on....

The most dangerous roads, statistically speaking, are two-lane rural roads. That is where most fatalities relative to a billion driving miles happen. City streets are next, and freeways are the safest, although it seems weird that the U.S. freeway fatalities are so much higher than in most of Europe.

Purely down to the lack of driver training IMO...

US roads are some of the best engineered, widest (inner and outer shoulders) and straightest in the world.

Americans also tend to drive much larger cars than the rest of the world so in theory they should be better protected.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that education, training and enforcement is inadequate.

Americans also tend to drive much larger cars than the rest of the world so in theory they should be better protected.

It should be noted impact force (kinetic energy) with heavier vehicles is bigger, and SUV's and pickup trucks are prone to tipping over.

It should be noted impact force (kinetic energy) with heavier vehicles is bigger, and SUV's and pickup trucks are prone to tipping over.

Indeed bigger does not always equal safer, but according to euro NCAP, the larger vehicles almost always perform better in accidents.

http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Faq/f795b985-edb5-4fd6-ac45-1afc92ca6610/buying-your-car.aspx#faq692fe9b6-e006-4167-b471-07b99c8f62c4

Until fairly recently (circa 2000) you were probably better off in a larger car before the widespread use of boron steel and side impact/roof crush safety standard were implemented.

Purely down to the lack of driver training IMO...

US roads are some of the best engineered, widest (inner and outer shoulders) and straightest in the world.


I have no intention of doing the statistical legwork to back this up, but about twelve years I read a study that found that routine widening and straightening of roads for safety purposes didn't equate to safer roads. The reason was that eliminating marginal hazards simply increased driver complacency, leading to a compensatory increase in accidents at other less- or non-substandard sections of roadway. In fact, the reduction in injuries and fatalities was found to be less that the effects that could be reasonably attributed to non-roadway factors such as safer vehicles and better emergency medical care. In other words, so-called safety improvements may have actually made roads less safe, though the difference was very small.

Oddly, this study of American experience was done by a British team. I assume that consideration was being given to systematically upgrading British two-lane roads in the same way that the US has done, and the Brits wisely decided to try to find out if it was really worth doing.

sounds more like a UK government study to try and justify the lack of investment in vital motorway infrastructure upgrades.

Are you at all familiar with the UK road network?

Indeed bigger does not always equal safer, but according to euro NCAP, the larger vehicles almost always perform better in accidents.

http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Faq/f795b985-edb5-4fd6-ac45-1afc92ca6610/buying-your-car.aspx#faq692fe9b6-e006-4167-b471-07b99c8f62c4

Until fairly recently (circa 2000) you were probably better off in a larger car before the widespread use of boron steel and side impact/roof crush safety standard were implemented.

Probably performs better at the expense of the object it's hitting haha

I don't think so, its only used by 2 countries in the northern hemisphere......

You've got to be realistic and accept that in the real world, everyone uses the SI units of measurement. All your Exports to Europe are required to be labeled in Metric Units only.

I have no idea why you're against going metric. Yes, it takes effort but look at other countries that switched - they had no problems, did they? For example, Ireland went metric in 2005 from MPH to Km/h without any serious issues.

"The real world"?
What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?

^^ +1 (A little cultural variety here and there is NEVER a bad thing.)
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Future I-74 Construction in North Carolina

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810cs3.jpg?t=1285625393

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810hd3.jpg?t=1285625500

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810cs2-1.jpg?t=1285625741

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810cs1.jpg?t=1285625829

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg6810i85a.jpg?t=1285625943

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg6810kv1.jpg?t=1285626115

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg6810jl4.jpg?t=1285626039

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg6810jl2.jpg?t=1285626016

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/f4c02cb6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/8003eae4.jpg?t=1285626279

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg6810br2.jpg?t=1285626022

(all are courtesy of Link (http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com))

"The real world"?
What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?

I apologize for jumping in the middle of this conversation, but there is no room for "quaintness" in business. Uniformity mean efficiency and efficiency means more profits.

^^
What does Wall Street have to do with this particular SSC argument?
Anyway, aren't we repetitively
http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg
with the whole metrication debate at this point?
BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?

BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?

Yes, you should clearly switch to the superior way of building roads too :D

Edit: To be on topic, why does the road look so "uneven"?

Yes, you should clearly switch to the superior way of building roads too :D

Edit: To be on topic, why does the road look so "uneven"?

partly all the dirt on it

Not all American roads are like that. Ohio actually has smooth roads. Smooth like ze autobahn.

^^
What does Wall Street have to do with this particular SSC argument?

with the whole metrication debate at this point?
BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?

No, what is different than what's done in Europe?

They put different markers and colors on their roads? :dunno:

No, what is different than what's done in Europe?

Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.

Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.

Also, tighter turning radius, much less consistent superelevation, inconsistent placement of crash barriers, and, depending on the state, poorer drainage on the pavement due to the use of dense-graded asphalt. Although I recall that some sections of the Autobahn uses dense-graded asphalt for durability, no?

"The real world"?
What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?

Because the metric system is the better system. "We're used to it" is a kindergarten excuse that disregards the benefits of the metric system.

Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.

zjrbXsuAOUE

Also, tighter turning radius, much less consistent super-elevation, inconsistent placement of crash barriers, and, depending on the state, poorer drainage on the pavement due to the use of dense-graded asphalt. Although I recall that some sections of the Autobahn uses dense-graded asphalt for durability, no?
From what I understand the United States doesn't really use that water absorbing (porous) blacktop that's common in parts of Europe and Japan. Also guardrails are generally only used where the destruction of the vehicle is preferred/ safer then the auto going off the road.
EDIT, Paddington: lol

Because the metric system is the better system. "We're used to it" is a kindergarten excuse that disregards the benefits of the metric system.

It's been 40 years since I was in kindergarten (actually Montessori school). There are ways to disagree with people without being rude about it.

That said, if we were starting a country from scratch, yes, go with metric. But we're not. The supposed benefits of it relative to the traditional system do not, in my opinion - if I may be permitted to have one - outweigh the inconvenience and expense of changing. And it is embedded in the culture and the language. But my real point is that this is a decision for Americans to make. Non-Americans demanding that we conform to the metric system (or that we give up our own sports for soccer*), or non-British demanding that the British start driving on the right**, are out of line. If having to learn the difference between miles and kilometers, or fahrenheit and celsius, when they're here is such an imposition, they have the option of staying home. Heck, we manage it in the other direction.

*Yes, that happens. In fact, it had happened on another forum a short time before I read this thread. So non-Americans complaining about how we have the effrontery to not do everything exactly the way they do has become a pet peeve of mine.

**that's happened on this forum.

I agree that people who it does not concern should basically ef off, but keep in mind there is a good amount of people in the States who do believe that metric is better and are for implementing it, so it's not just foreigners who try to stick their nose into our issues ;)

As for sports, to each his own. I know a lot of people who don't care about American sports but watch the MLS and follow US National Team, I know people who care about both as well as people who don't give a crap about soccer. But times are changing and, especially amongst younger people, soccer is becoming more and more popular in this country. BUt that's OT anyway.

Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.

As a not-very-well-travelled American, I'm more cognizant of the differences between states, of which there are many. One semi-interesting observation about North Carolina: Of the southern states in which I've travelled most extensively, most started the freeway construction era building ramp terminals of the parallel design, then switched to the (IMO superior) taper type in the mid 60's. North Carolina did, too-- but switched back to parallel in (I think) the early '80's.

As a not-very-well-travelled American, I'm more cognizant of the differences between states, of which there are many. One semi-interesting observation about North Carolina: Of the southern states in which I've travelled most extensively, most started the freeway construction era building ramp terminals of the parallel design, then switched to the (IMO superior) taper type in the mid 60's. North Carolina did, too-- but switched back to parallel in (I think) the early '80's.

NC is also notable for the type of exit signage it uses: with clearly-separate exit tabs and large radii on their rounded corners. Florida and Virginia use this same set-up. In most other states, the exit tab is a clear part of the overall sign, even if it's just a tab. Then again, there are some states that use exit bars that cover the full width of the sign. Georgia did this on all its Series-D Font signs. Illinois also does this around the Chicago area.

NC is also notable for the type of exit signage it uses: with clearly-separate exit tabs and large radii on their rounded corners. Florida and Virginia use this same set-up. In most other states, the exit tab is a clear part of the overall sign, even if it's just a tab. Then again, there are some states that use exit bars that cover the full width of the sign. Georgia did this on all its Series-D Font signs. Illinois also does this around the Chicago area.

Indeed. To my eye as a Georgian, NC signage seems more cobbled-together, even if it's up to date. Still, though, I prefer NC's approach in that regard. It's more interesting.

I'm too lazy to upload a pic, but this streetview of I-85 in southern NC (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.264736,-81.260612&spn=0,0.019205&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.264778,-81.260496&panoid=kGAYBtuq3PSKPjnNkQlLEQ&cbp=12,59.97,,0,-2.84) shows what you're talking about. It also shows... NC likes to put a sign for the next exit on its overheads, even if the next exit is quite some distance away, in this case 1 3/4 miles. Georgia would never do that, preferring to display signs one at a time unless exits are closely spaced. Plus, while Georgia prefers to make all the signs on a given overhead the same height, while NC makes each of their signs only as large as it needs to be.

Another tidbit about this particular Interstate: In South Carolina I-85 is 2x3for I guess about half its length, but where two lanes were added in the median of an early-build section of Interstate, the left shoulders are very narrow. In NC, though, they're noticeably wider, not ten feet, but maybe enough to get a disabled car out of the traffic lanes. Points to NC on that.

^^
What does Wall Street have to do with this particular SSC argument?


Dude, there is more to profit than Wall Street. Our entire economy is market-based, where the main driving force is profit.

The issue with metric is not entirely about adhering to tradition. There is something to be said about measurement systems that are easily divisible by four.

By the way is there a thread on here that directly deals with the issue of metrication in the US?

Indeed. To my eye as a Georgian, NC signage seems more cobbled-together, even if it's up to date. Still, though, I prefer NC's approach in that regard. It's more interesting.

I'm too lazy to upload a pic, but this streetview of I-85 in southern NC (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.264736,-81.260612&spn=0,0.019205&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.264778,-81.260496&panoid=kGAYBtuq3PSKPjnNkQlLEQ&cbp=12,59.97,,0,-2.84) shows what you're talking about. It also shows... NC likes to put a sign for the next exit on its overheads, even if the next exit is quite some distance away, in this case 1 3/4 miles. Georgia would never do that, preferring to display signs one at a time unless exits are closely spaced. Plus, while Georgia prefers to make all the signs on a given overhead the same height, while NC makes each of their signs only as large as it needs to be.

Another tidbit about this particular Interstate: In South Carolina I-85 is 2x3for I guess about half its length, but where two lanes were added in the median of an early-build section of Interstate, the left shoulders are very narrow. In NC, though, they're noticeably wider, not ten feet, but maybe enough to get a disabled car out of the traffic lanes. Points to NC on that.

You're absolutely right about signs indicating the next exit, most states don't do what NC does. The only other agency I can think of that puts signs for the next exit at the current exit regardless of distance is the Illinois Tollway. They will usually put up signs for the next two exits at one particular exit ramp, sometimes for ridiculously long distances on certain tollways due to the nature of some exit and entrance ramps being oriented toward Chicago. Here's an example (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=schaumburg,+il&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Schaumburg,+Cook,+Illinois&gl=us&ei=9K-jTK7ACMKclgeUgPX_Aw&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=42.066085,-88.200291&spn=0.00399,0.011791&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.066489,-88.201341&panoid=CmXkYsepVtwUWn2KgmWreQ&cbp=12,92.83,,0,-0.9) on I-90EB in Hoffman Estates in the northwest suburbs. I've also noticed that the Tollway likes to use long, European/Asian-style lane-dividing lines instead of the standard length you see on most roads, even those maintained by IDOT.

Having all signs be the same height is something I find a little odd about Georgia. It's one of those things that stuck out along with the Series-D font. Personally, I think the standard most states have adopted tends to be that of Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. Right-side exit tabs, signs of variable height (only use as much metal as needed to display information), and relatively-square corners.

As for shoulder width, there's a stretch of I-65 north of Birmingham between Arkadelphia and Warrior that was widened from 2x2 to 2x3 back in the mid to late 90's, and the left shoulders are only 4 ft wide with median barrier. IIRC, that's about the same time much of I-85 through SC was widened from 2x2 to 2x3. I know that current AASHTO interstate standards dictate that interstates with 3 adjacent lanes in one direction require a 10 ft left shoulder in addition to the 10 ft right shoulder. That change must be recent, unless those projects got exemptions.

^^ +1 (A little cultural variety here and there is NEVER a bad thing.)
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Future I-74 Construction in North Carolina

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810cs3.jpg?t=1285625393

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/i74seg7810hd3.jpg?t=1285625500



Where is it?

^^
My bad, here's a map of the 1st section of the US 311 bypass (future I-74).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NxQg7HFJeE0/TBbeck65vmI/AAAAAAAABAk/ycSI29o6ebo/s1600/byp311map507.jpg
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
EDIT, Here is some more from that section.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/60f7fea9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/8bcb43be.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/086ca156.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/549030c8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/0792e060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/1cb931f3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/f3499a6f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/0c985981.jpg
^ This will be the temporary end of the new freeway until the next section is completed in 2012.

(all are courtesy of LINK (http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-09-06T21%3A27%3A00-04%3A00&max-results=10&reverse-paginate=true))

As for shoulder width, there's a stretch of I-65 north of Birmingham between Arkadelphia and Warrior that was widened from 2x2 to 2x3 back in the mid to late 90's, and the left shoulders are only 4 ft wide with median barrier. IIRC, that's about the same time much of I-85 through SC was widened from 2x2 to 2x3. I know that current AASHTO interstate standards dictate that interstates with 3 adjacent lanes in one direction require a 10 ft left shoulder in addition to the 10 ft right shoulder. That change must be recent, unless those projects got exemptions.

Nah, it's been in place forever, since the '70's at the latest. But exemptions are handed out like Kleenexes.

Pennsylvania Turnpike turns 70 today

A happy birthday to the first intercity "Autobahn" of the United States! The Pennsylvania Turnpike turns 70 years today. On October the first, 1940, the first section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike opened between US 11 in Carlisle and US 30 in Irwin, after almost 2 years of construction.

^^
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5977/signmaker.png

Made with Kurumi's SignMaker.

Pennsylvania Turnpike turns 70 today

A happy birthday to the first intercity "Autobahn" of the United States! The Pennsylvania Turnpike turns 70 years today. On October the first, 1940, the first section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike opened between US 11 in Carlisle and US 30 in Irwin, after almost 2 years of construction.

In my opinion the PA Turnpike is the worst Toll Highway system in the US. Narrow shoulders or none at all , too small. Tight curves , fast merging....:ohno: But then Again Penndot is a terrible agency....

^^ Yep. Worst highway to drive at night too. Too narrow, too winded...if you need to drive through PA to get to other states, you are better off taking I-80 instead. However the PA turnpike does deserve recognition in the respect that it was the first real long distance highway in the US.

It's a good excuse to read (or reread) a history of the Pennsylvania turnpike: http://www.pahighways.com/toll/PATurnpike.html

Pretty damn fascinating, IMO. :cheers:

I went to Atlanta for the weekend, and I have to say, it is definitely one of the coolest roads I have ever driven:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_244-75_north_foru.jpg

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_246_north_forum.jpg

Super high-res versions of these images coming soon to http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/

San Jose-280/Hwy87 interchange

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3769452309_91dd199f5b_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozzie2645/with/3769452309/

Race Street, who doesn't want to live there? :)

^ rural stretches are def different.
if i were driving through s. carolina id prob drive over 100 too!!!!

i-5 in cali is (in)famous for being straight, empty and high-speed. ive seen many, many people going over 100, tho i myself dont ever really go above 85-90 - too much stress on the car and gas mileage starts going down.

I myself drove at 80 mph on I-5 in California Central Valley.

I went to Atlanta for the weekend, and I have to say, it is definitely one of the coolest roads I have ever driven:

Thanks for the pics, since I'm too lazy to take them myself. :ohno: I generally hate it when people quote entire photo post, but now I'm doing it myself. This first shot is a good illustration of Georgia's bizarre compressed signage font:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_244-75_north_foru.jpg

This is the new font, which looks like it was designed by a kindergartner. It's more readable and less bizarre than the compressed font, but... WHY NOT !@#$%^&CLEARVIEW???? :bash:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_246_north_forum.jpg

That must be the only place which still uses Highway Gothic for new signs. I have warmed up to Clearview.

I went to Atlanta for the weekend, and I have to say, it is definitely one of the coolest roads I have ever driven.

Yeah, definitely :)

Thanks for the pics, since I'm too lazy to take them myself. :ohno: I generally hate it when people quote entire photo post, but now I'm doing it myself. This first shot is a good illustration of Georgia's bizarre compressed signage font:

Perhaps my opinion is in the minority, but I didn't mind the compressed font. What I really liked though was that Georgia's signs seemed to all be of uniform height. It made the sign trusses look very clean and clear.

Second Half of Future I-74 between High Point, NC and I-73.
(opening in 2012)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/b2d62076-1.jpg
Google Maps
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/982e3a3c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/cec190e5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/8916dd97.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/c7cf557a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/52c400df.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/84a7d945.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/0b7b2c95.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/0f115c45.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/bcfb62fb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/509c8b71.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/ce2fe6c8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/8b09a46e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/a681e546.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/cf8d2307.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/11e62521.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/3740bc41.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/hold/877cea12.jpg
(All are courtesy of LINK (http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/))

Perhaps my opinion is in the minority, but I didn't mind the compressed font. What I really liked though was that Georgia's signs seemed to all be of uniform height. It made the sign trusses look very clean and clear.

That's another thing that irritates me about this. I don't like the compressed font, but at least it's been implemented consistently. It was introduced sporadically, but before the Olympics in 1996, a great many signs were replaced using the then-newish compressed font, and the look was clean and consistent.

My personal preferences aside, I really don't see any need to change. But surely if a change is made, it should be to Clearview. It's almost as if Georgia wishes to broadcast a hyperconservative, antiscientific worldview through its roadsigns.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/4390930233_edab575f09_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cosmophotos/

Second Half of Future I-74 between High Point, NC and I-73.
(opening in 2012)


Thanks.
It's nice to see some construction pictures from US so we can compare technology with road projects in Europe.

Where can I find some technical comparisons of roads in US and Europe?
Something about pavement thickness and layers, ground stabilization techniques, road geometry etc.

^^That's a good question, I'm curious about the technical differences as well.
Here is an outline of some standards for the Interstate Highway System. (2007 version)


Controlled access. All access onto and off the roadway is to be controlled with interchanges and grade separations (including railroad crossings). See List of gaps in Interstate Highways for the few cases that violate this rule. Interchanges should provide full access; ramps are to be designed with the appropriate standards in mind. Minimum interchange spacing should be 1 mi (1.6 km) in urban areas and 3 mi (4.8 km) in rural areas; collector-distributor roads or other configurations that reduce weaving can be used in urban areas to shorten this distance.

Access control (from adjacent properties) should extend at least 100 ft (30 m) in urban areas and 300 ft (90 m) in rural areas in each direction along the crossroad from the ramps.


Minimum design speed. Minimum design speed of 75 mph (120 km/h) in rural areas, with 65 mph (100 km/h) acceptable in rolling terrain, and as low as 55 mph (90 km/h) allowed in mountainous and urban areas. However, speed limits as low as 40 mph (60 km/h) are occasionally encountered, such as on I-59 through Laurel, Mississippi, I-84 near Waterbury, Connecticut, Interstate 291 near Bloomfield, Connecticut nearing I-91, I-68 through Cumberland, Maryland, I-490 through downtown Rochester, NY and I-495 through New York City; and also on long bridges such as the Mackinac Bridge which carries the "Interstate 75" designation. Interstate 264 drops to 35 mph in parts of Norfolk, Virginia.

Sight distance, curvature and superelevation according to the current edition of AASHTO's A Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets for the design speed.


Maximum grade. Maximum grade is determined by a table, with up to 6% allowed in mountainous areas and hilly urban areas.
Minimum number of lanes. At least two lanes in each direction, and more if necessary for an acceptable level of service in the design year, according to the current edition of AASHTO's A Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets. Climbing lanes and emergency escape ramps should be provided where appropriate.
Minimum lane width. Minimum lane width of 12 ft (3.62 m).
Shoulder width. Minimum outside paved shoulder width of 10 ft (3.0 m) and inside shoulder width of 4 ft (1.2 m). With three or more lanes in each direction, the inside paved shoulder should be at least 10 ft (3.0 m) wide. If truck traffic is over 250 Directional Design Hour Volume, shoulders at least 12 ft (3.6 m) wide should be considered. In mountainous terrain, 8 ft (2.4 m) outside and 4 ft (1.2 m) inside shoulders are acceptable, except when there are at least four lanes in each direction, in which case the inside shoulders should also be 8 ft (2.4 m) wide.
Pavement sloping. Pavement cross slope of at least 1.5% and preferably 2% to ensure proper drainage on straight sections. This can be increased to 2.5% in areas of heavy rainfall. Shoulder cross slope should be between 2% and 6% but not less than the main lanes.
Land slopes within the clear zone should be at most 4:1 and preferably 6:1 or flatter. Roadside barriers should be used for slopes of 3:1 or steeper, in accordance with the current edition of AASHTO's Roadside Design Guide.
Median width. Minimum median width of 36 ft (11 m) in rural areas, and 10 ft (3.0 m) in urban or mountainous areas. To prevent median-crossing accidents, guardrail or Jersey barrier should be installed in medians in accordance with the current edition of AASHTO's Roadside Design Guide, based on traffic, median width and crash history. When possible, median openings between parallel bridges less than 30 ft (9.0 m) in width should be decked over; otherwise barriers or guardrails should be installed to exclude vehicles from the gap.
Recovery areas. No fixed objects should be in the clear recovery area, determined by the design speed in accordance with the current edition of AASHTO's Roadside Design Guide. When this is not possible, breakaway supports or barriers guarding the objects shall be used.
Curb slope. Vertical curbs are prohibited. Sloping curbs are to be at the edge of the paved shoulder, with a maximum height of 100 mm (4 in). The combination of curbs and guardrail is discouraged; in this case the guardrail should be closer to the road than the curb.
Vertical clearance. Minimum vertical clearance under overhead structures (including over the paved shoulders) of 16 ft (4.9 m) in rural areas and 14 ft (4.3 m) in urban areas, with allowance for extra layers of pavement. Through urban areas at least one routing should have 16 ft (4.9 m) clearances. Sign supports and pedestrian overpasses must be at least 17 ft (5.1 m) above the road, except on urban routes with lesser clearance, where they should be at least 1 ft (0.3 m) higher than other objects. Vertical clearance on through truss bridges is to be at least 17 ft (5.1 m).
Horizontal clearance under or along a bridge shall be the full paved width of the rest of the road. Bridges longer than 200 ft (60 m) can be narrower, with a minimum of 4 ft (1.2 m) on both sides of the travel lanes.
Bridge strength. New bridges are to have at least MS 18 (HS-20) structural capacity. Weaker bridges that can continue to serve the route for 20 more years are allowed to remain.

Additionally, existing bridges can remain if they have at least 12 ft (3.6 m) lanes with 10 ft (3.0 m) outside and 3.5 ft (1.1 m) inside shoulders. Long bridges are to have at least 3.5 ft (1.1 m) on each side of the travel lanes; bridge railing should be upgraded to current standards if necessary.


Tunnel clearance. Tunnels should in theory be equivalent to long overcrossings, but because of cost the standards can be reduced. Vertical clearance is the same as under bridges, including the provision for alternate routing. Width should be at least 44 ft (13.1 m), which consists of two 12 ft (3.6 m) lanes, 10 ft (3.0 m) outside and 5 ft (1.5 m) inside shoulders, and 2.5 ft (.7 m) safety walkways on each side. If necessary to meet the dimensions of the approach, this can be shifted left or right. A reduced width is acceptable due to high cost. In this case, the minimum width is 30 ft (9.0 m), with at least 2 ft (0.6 m) more than the approach for the sum of the shoulder widths, but at least 24 ft (7.2 m) total, and at least 1.5 ft (0.5 m) on each side for a safety walkway. If there is no safety walkway, a 3 ft (1.0 m) offset with a "safety shape" in the wall is acceptable.
From Wikipedia.org
Exceptions exist. These apply to all Interstates designed/ built after 2007. Additionally, states may add to the standards (such as longer minimum distances between exits, more stringent grade tolerances, etc.). Remember the federal guidelines are the minimum standards states must follow and those listed above are just the tip of the iceberg.

The planned USH-169 & I-494 interchange in Bloomington, Minnesota. (Construction is set to start spring 2011.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/b68ea413.jpg?t=1287037280
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/03704b59.jpg?t=1287036712
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/c10f1175.jpg
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/aae803e1.jpg?t=1287037253
MnDOT

The current interchange is a horribly tight and outdated parclo. (I'm not going to mince words the plan above looks like it was designed by a drunk British traffic engineering student. IMHO)

^^
I observed not long ago that roundabouts do allow for far, far greater flexibility in street layout and design than do conventional intersections in complex situations - how different would that area have been had it been laid out even ten years ago, before USA highway and traffic engineers really 'discovered' roundabouts?

Despite the on-the-surface unusual appearance of that rebuilt interchange and its surrounding surface streets and frontage roads, it looks 'elegant' to me in its overall simplicity and accessibility. WHATTA MESS it would be, indeed, if MnDOT was limited to using conventional intersections.

Mike

^^
I'm not anti-roundabout by any stretch, but compared to the original design this is just wonky.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/169/images/169policyphoto.jpg
But to be fair anything would be better then whats there now.

BTW, Is there anyway to look up future signage (bgs) designs/ layouts on the WisDOT site, like you can with other states?

I-278 form the Brooklyn Bridge

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5080814507_4c5a100da6_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/5081407702_7f0c7f1e57_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5081407596_14d228cebd_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4012/5081406972_a7bf602df4_b.jpg

Brookyln Bridge exit to the BQE

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/5081407108_e2b30a38f5_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5080813327_dfcd2a01b1_b.jpg

Amazing that an expressway like the BQE deserves an Interstate designation.

The planned USH-169 & I-494 interchange in Bloomington, Minnesota. (Construction is set to start spring 2011.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/b68ea413.jpg?t=1287037280
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/03704b59.jpg?t=1287036712
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/c10f1175.jpg
MnDOT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/aae803e1.jpg?t=1287037253
MnDOT

The current interchange is a horribly tight and outdated parclo. (I'm not going to mince words the plan above looks like it was designed by a drunk British traffic engineering student. IMHO)

More than anything else the one thing I like best when driving in the USA is the fact that the roads are designed to actually make driving a pleasurable experience!
Here in the UK roundabouts are famously over-used, especially as a short-sighted cost-cutting measure and IMO have very limited place on such roads like that Interstate. They may look all foreign and progressive? but trust me, before you know it they're overused and you resent gravity pulling you from left to right again...and again...and...

About time USA discovers roundabouts!!! I've never seen one here, except one in a mall's parking lot and a lot of drivers got it wrong.

Driving here sometimes is frustrating since I know that having a roundabout at certain intersections would speed things up a LOT.

Amazing that an expressway like the BQE deserves an Interstate designation.

It most definitely would not get it if it was built in present day.

Amazing that an expressway like the BQE deserves an Interstate designation.

Why?

It most definitely would not get it if it was built in present day.

This.

Why?

Haven't you seen your own pictures? This is way below Interstate Highway design standards.

Haven't you seen your own pictures? This is way below Interstate Highway design standards.

Yea , but then you would need to remove I-95 , I-678 , I-495 , I-895 , all of those highways have no or little shoulders in NYC and outside of NYC like CT , Urban Jersey , parts of Westchester....

Yes, many Interstates have sections that don't comply with the standards, however the BQE is arguably one of the worst.

Yes, many Interstates have sections that don't comply with the standards, however the BQE is arguably one of the worst.

Yes ,they plan on widening it. But that has faced a city wide outrage since it would level entire historic neighborhoods. Theres another proposal to build a tunnel under Brooklyn but that might be too costly.

Seattle Mixmaster Interchange I-90/I-5

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3197844879_305eca7a44_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rutlo/

Must be taken from the 12th Ave S bridge.

From: http://www.lohud.com/article/201010160342

2 designs remain for new Tappan Zee Bridge

By Khurram Saeed • ksaeed@lohud.com • October 16, 2010
http://secondavenuesagas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/TappanZee.png
plan 3

http://www.annasterne2010.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tappan-zee.jpg
plan 5

NEW CITY — There still isn't any money to replace the aging Tappan Zee Bridge but there are now two final designs for what the new bridge might look like.

One is a single-level span that would have room for trains to run in the middle, with bus lanes on either side of the tracks, and car and trucks traveling in the outer lanes (Plan 3 above).

The second design is a dual-level bridge (Plan 5, above). Trains would run underneath the north span. Vehicle traffic would be on the top level, with two dedicated bus lanes in the center. Because it would have fewer support structures than the single-level span, 66 compared with 118, it would take less time to construct.

Michael Anderson, leader of the Tappan Zee Bridge/Interstate 287 Corridor Project, unveiled the recommendations Friday in New City. He said the two designs were narrowed from six options by the project's consultants — Earth Tech/AECOM, AECOM and Ove Arup, all of Manhattan — because they had the shortest construction times, lowest costs to build and the least environmental impact to the Hudson River. They also offered the greatest transportation flexibility and provided the safest emergency access.
"We haven't made any hard and fast decisions," Anderson said. "We're going to take these recommendations into consideration as we advance the DEIS (draft environmental impact statement)."

A new span to replace the soon-to-be 55-year-old Tappan Zee Bridge is just one part of the $16 billion project. It also would add bus rapid transit from Suffern to Port Chester along 30 miles of Interstate 287 and would call for the construction of a new passenger rail line across Rockland, over the new bridge and into Westchester onto Metro-North Railroad's Hudson Line, ending at Grand Central Terminal in Manhattan.

A new bridge with highway improvements in Rockland would cost $8.3 billion (the bridge alone is $6.4 billion); bus rapid transit would run $1 billion; and the rail line would cost $6.7 billion in 2012 dollars.

The two final bridge recommendations, as well as the transit and highway improvements that were unveiled Friday, will be analyzed in the environmental review, which is due to be finalized early next year.

The state Department of Transportation is the lead agency and is supported by the state Thruway Authority and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's Metro-North Railroad.

During the 3 1/2-hour meeting, project officials also said they were continuing to work on financing for the project but had secured no firm commitments. Each of the bridge designs shares traits: four lanes in each direction; two dedicated bus lanes; safety shoulders; two railroad tracks (or the space to add them later); and a shared-use pedestrian and bicycle path on the north side of the span.

Anderson said in the case of the single-level span, where the train would run in its center, the tracks could be built at a later date in segmented sections at night, much like the ongoing deck replacement on the Tappan Zee Bridge.
The new bridge would be built about 400 feet north of the old one, and connect to the Thruway in the same places it does now.

The new bridge also would rise gradually to the midspan, unlike the current bridge, which features a steep grade to its highest point. That slope leads to many problems, Anderson said. "We have determined that heavy trucks coming up this 3 percent grade ... results in a reduction of speed by about 15 mph," he said. "That is not good for traffic flow and probably contributes to a number of accidents." It's also necessary to have a relatively flat grade in order for the trains to travel on the bridge.

Anderson spoke before more than 60 residents, politicians and transportation officials in New City at a meeting organized by Rockland County Legislature Chairwoman Harriet Cornell. She has held similar summits on the project for the past six years.

Philip Ferguson, the head of the project's finance team, reported that it was focusing on the first phase of the project, namely securing $8.3 billion for the new bridge and highway improvements. It was looking at both "traditional and innovative" financing options, and said that it would require multiple funding sources.

Martin Robins, a transportation consultant who is working with the Rockland Legislature, said the cancellation of the New York-New Jersey rail tunnel project due to cost overruns proves how "brittle" the financing of public works projects are today. "It just underscores the difficulty New York state DOT is having in 2010" in putting together a financing package, Robins said.

.

Build the quicker and cheaper design, the natural scenery is good enough on this bridge.

The BRT isn't really needed , The Rail line however is very needed. I just hope this new Rail / Highway project doesn't get killed by Religious groups in Rockland County....

I think that Tappan Zee Bridge news deserves it's own thread in the Bridge forum, I'm gonna create one now. :)

I think that Tappan Zee Bridge news deserves it's own thread in the Bridge forum, I'm gonna create one now. :)

Excellent! :banana: :banana:

More than anything else the one thing I like best when driving in the USA is the fact that the roads are designed to actually make driving a pleasurable experience!
Here in the UK roundabouts are famously over-used, especially as a short-sighted cost-cutting measure and IMO have very limited place on such roads like that Interstate. They may look all foreign and progressive? but trust me, before you know it they're overused and you resent gravity pulling you from left to right again...and again...and...

Roundabouts are an amazingly safe and efficient tool as a replacement for traffic lights, stop/giveway signs, even up to medium use interchanges. The problem (and bad press) is when they are used in place of free flowing interchanges as often happens in the UK. Even the most ingenious design as roundabouts are have their limits. This design seems like a goosd use of them to me. The main lines are free flowing with roundabouts for access to the surrounding roads.

Seattle Mixmaster Interchange I-90/I-5

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3197844879_305eca7a44_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rutlo/

Nice pic!

Safeco Field, home of the Seattle Mariners to the left, Qwest Field, home of the NFL Seahawks and soccer Sounders to the right. The highway system around the stadiums has been greatly improved in the past five years.

Kilometers are for pussies.

That's sweet coming from a caveman. I would expect nothing less.

That's sweet coming from an American. I would expect nothing less.

P.S. Spelling: Kilometres !:bash:

I'm all for SI, but in USA, it is kilometers, just like center, color, honor, program. For some reason Webster when he wrote that dictionary decided not to retain the French spelling rules. Nothing against your spelling or anything, in retrospect it would have made more sense not to change it.

Traffic volumes of the busiest Interstate in the United States.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9202/interstate405incaliforn.png

Wow, 390000 vehicles per day between CA-22 and I-605. I count there 12 lanes+2 HOV lanes. Considering that M-30 east in Madrid has 284000 vehicles per day and 14 lanes, that should have at least 20 lanes!

The George Washington Bridge (I-95) between Fort Lee, NJ en New York, NY, turns 79 years today!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/George_Washington_Bridge_001.JPG/800px-George_Washington_Bridge_001.JPG

^ LOL for the most populated County , my County is very green...

Some NJ Turnpike Pictures i took yesterday...

Exit 15X

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5112575444_cd878a717a_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1086/5112575684_5367e69edf_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/5111977459_cac1a55586_b.jpg

Heading back in the evening...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1109/5111998459_4cb9e2aa48_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1346/5111998977_be3eac448e_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1419/5111999113_400a964eec_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1210/5112597602_5e2ba31836_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1370/5111999363_34b7d79972_z.jpg

NJ Turnpike Eastern Spur North

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1156/5111999631_753c165971_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1076/5111999891_f13619d620_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/5112000017_a8d763a436_z.jpg

Interstate 80 west of Laramie, Wyoming has its first road closure of the 2010-2011 winter season;

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/140/i80e.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/5112000017_a8d763a436_z.jpg
The arrows on these traffic signs look weird. I don't think they fit the MUTCD standards.

and since when has I-80 reached New York? It officially ends on I-95, rather than crossing over to Manhattan.

I believe the intention is to let it begin at the NJ/NY state line, have a concurrency for a short length and then I-80 and I-95 split. Just to make a proper San Francisco - New York City route. It just sounds better than San Francisco - Fort Lee.

The arrows on these traffic signs look weird. I don't think they fit the MUTCD standards.

NJ Turnpike gets to do what it wants to, since it's self-sustaining.

Purple signs on the Westpark tollway in Houston also do not seem to be up to MUTCD standards! :)

The arrows on these traffic signs look weird. I don't think they fit the MUTCD standards.

Who cares , there just signs......as long as people can read them...

and since when has I-80 reached New York? It officially ends on I-95, rather than crossing over to Manhattan.

I believe the intention is to let it begin at the NJ/NY state line, have a concurrency for a short length and then I-80 and I-95 split. Just to make a proper San Francisco - New York City route. It just sounds better than San Francisco - Fort Lee.

I-80 ends / Begins in Teaneck,NJ.....

NJ Turnpike gets to do what it wants to, since it's self-sustaining.

NJ gets away with alot of things the feds wouldn't approve of.......

Epic view:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11943347.jpg

Epic view:


Looks like the setting of one scene in the first Transformer movie.

Epic view:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11943347.jpg
110 at the 105?

110 at the 105?
Yea. It's one of the most *AWESOME* interchanges in the entire USA.

:cheers1:

Mike

Isn't it the highest?

I believe the intention is to let it begin at the NJ/NY state line, have a concurrency for a short length and then I-80 and I-95 split. Just to make a proper San Francisco - New York City route. It just sounds better than San Francisco - Fort Lee.

I grew up in North Jersey, and have heard enough traffic reporters over the years talk about "80/95" - also seen it on older maps - that I thought until recently that there was a concurrency. I thought 80 westbound started not at the state line, but at the point where 95, US 1/9 and NJ 4 diverge. To be fair, I'm guessing 80 shows up on the signs, westbound, starting there, or really starting on the bridge as people start to choose among those roads which way they're going....

EDIT: AARoads pix:

This one would imply that 80 starts where I thought it did - at that decision point:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_16.jpg

This one (saying not "95 80" but "95 to 80") would imply that 80 starts at the separation from 95 in Teaneck:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_04.jpg

Eastbound, it's clear:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_18.jpg

I grew up in North Jersey, and have heard enough traffic reporters over the years talk about "80/95" - also seen it on older maps - that I thought until recently that there was a concurrency. I thought 80 westbound started not at the state line, but at the point where 95, US 1/9 and NJ 4 diverge. To be fair, I'm guessing 80 shows up on the signs, westbound, starting there, or really starting on the bridge as people start to choose among those roads which way they're going....

EDIT: AARoads pix:

This one would imply that 80 starts where I thought it did - at that decision point:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_16.jpg

This one (saying not "95 80" but "95 to 80") would imply that 80 starts at the separation from 95 in Teaneck:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_04.jpg

Eastbound, it's clear:
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images080/i-080_et_18.jpg

Apparently i'm forbidden for accessing that file....:ohno:

I drive 80 right to the very end at least a few times a week. The technical point where 80 officially ends is actually in South Hackensack.

I drive 80 right to the very end at least a few times a week. The technical point where 80 officially ends is actually in South Hackensack.

No it ends in Teaneck,NJ.

It depends on definition. Technically there are no incorporated communities directly around the I-80 / I-95 interchange. Leonia, Bogota and Ridgefield park are the closest boroughs, Englewood and Hackensack are the closest incorporated places.

I-80, however, is already signed at the first signs when you're coming from the George Washington Bridge, at the Palisades Parkway interchange in Fort Lee.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7980/i80u.jpg

It depends on definition. Technically there are no incorporated communities directly around the I-80 / I-95 interchange. Leonia, Bogota and Ridgefield park are the closest boroughs, Englewood and Hackensack are the closest incorporated places.


Boroughs in New Jersey are incorporated; cities (which is the status Englewood and Hackensack have) are just more populous (usually) incorporated places. And in that part of the state, there's little difference between a township and an incorporated place. But that's a whole other area for me to be geeky about. :-/

EDIT:
As far as I can tell from various maps and my memory, that 80/95 interchange is on the border between Ridgefield Park (a village) and Teaneck (township). I believe, but can't confirm, that even though Teaneck's a township - which in less urban areas would imply a large rural entity without a well-defined center - it has the largest population in the county.

Hmm, I thought communities that fall under the county are not incorporated by default. Is New Jersey different in this aspect than other states?

I always liked the name "Hackensack" by the way. ;)

Hmm, I thought communities that fall under the county are not incorporated by default. Is New Jersey different in this aspect than other states?

I always liked the name "Hackensack" by the way. ;)

You got me started!

Every state has its own structure, although there are a few basic types. In the Northeast and most of the Midwest, there is a complete layer of municipalities, like in those European countries I'm familiar with. But of two types. Towns or townships (the term depends on the state) are blocks of territory, with farmland, one or many or no small villages rather than an obvious population center.... They have little relation to population centers because they may have been laid out as the area was settled, before population centers appeared. The census, last time I looked, called these types of entities "county subdivisions."

"Incorporated places" - a generic term (which I think the census uses) that will cover cities, villages, boroughs, towns in states where that's not a township - are created where a concentrated center of population develops that's large enough to justify that sort of thing. (In New Jersey, incorporating a borough and separating it from the township it was in was historically a way to get sewers, sidewalks, streetlamps and so on into a populated area that needed them without increasing property taxes for the farmers who didn't need them and wouldn't get them....) In rural areas of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and the like, if you look at a county map, the difference between townships and incorporated places is obvious. In the most urban parts of New Jersey, like Bergen County, the distinction's become meaningless because incorporated places cover most of the territory and townships are just the bits left over after all those incorporations. And the townships are as urban or suburban as the surrounding areas.

In the south (from Maryland down) and west, the county subdivision (township....) doesn't exist (the census has created its own, for its own purposes) and local government in "unincorporated areas" does fall directly to the county, as you thought was the case.

But I've learned since my previous post that Hackensack is now the most populated place in Bergen County; Teaneck's second - it was the largest as late as 1990. Out of 70.

(I'm not going to mince words the plan above looks like it was designed by a drunk British traffic engineering student. IMHO)

:lol: I agree! Probably designed by some retard british guy like Tony Hayward.

On older Maps it goes to the GWB on newer maps and signs it ends in Teaneck.

The great LBJ Express project, Dallas, TX:

7fPH7eYFp6c

A cross section of Alternative 2 for the road improvement scheme on I-10 in Tempe, a suburb of Phoenix: 24 lanes

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4965/i10phoenix2.jpg

ChrisZwolle: Those two projects are insane! The one in the video looks crazy expensive, and the second one would leave Highway 401 in the dust.

Does Phoenix (and it's metro area) really need 24 lanes? I heard it was the second most unsustainable major city in the USA (behind Los Angeles). The last thing it needs is considerable growth.

Wheres the $$$ coming for that project?

The Dallas LBJexpress project will be funded by tolls. The Phoenix project will be funded by local taxes as usual. (proposition 400).

http://www.i85extension.com/index.htm

The I-85 extension to I-20 near Cuba (MS/AL state line) has been approved by AASHTO last month. They're currently working on the final EIS.

They should extend I-16 from Macon to I-85 somewhere near Auburn and call the Montgomery-I-20 extension I-16. At least it would make sense as an E-W interstate.

They should also build an interstate replacement of US 231 and 431 between Montgomery to Dothan and on to I-10 near Pamama City and call that I-65. Existing I-65 between Mongtomery and Mobile can be rechristened as I-85.

ChrisZwolle: Those two projects are insane! The one in the video looks crazy expensive, and the second one would leave Highway 401 in the dust.

Does Phoenix (and it's metro area) really need 24 lanes? I heard it was the second most unsustainable major city in the USA (behind Los Angeles). The last thing it needs is considerable growth.

Thankfully Chris didn't even respond to your idiotic post. Keep the politics out of these threads. Jeez why is it always my fellow Canadians that have to derail threads with needless politics and bleeding heart BS. You're making the rest of us look bad. This thread is for highway enthusiasts.

Thankfully Chris didn't even respond to your idiotic post. Keep the politics out of these threads. Jeez why is it always my fellow Canadians that have to derail threads with needless politics and bleeding heart BS. You're making the rest of us look bad. This thread is for highway enthusiasts.

Is this really necessary? Don't like someone's posts, don't respond. I am not going to start some stupid online war, but if you don't have anything add to a thread, aside flaming other members or your fellow countrymen, don't post.

They should extend I-16 from Macon to I-85 somewhere near Auburn and call the Montgomery-I-20 extension I-16. At least it would make sense as an E-W interstate.

They should also build an interstate replacement of US 231 and 431 between Montgomery to Dothan and on to I-10 near Pamama City and call that I-65. Existing I-65 between Mongtomery and Mobile can be rechristened as I-85.

Why stop there? Let's get rid of I-16 altogether:

- I-20 extension from Cuba becomes the I-20 mainline
- I-20/I-59 duplex stays as I-59
- I-85 in Montgomery becomes I-20/I-85 duplex
- I-16 + extension to Auburn becomes I-20
- I-40 from Little Rock to Memphis becomes I-30/I-40 duplex
- I-22 from Memphis to Birmingham becomes I-30
- Former I-20 from Birmingham to Florence, SC becomes I-30

Sounds like a plan.

Perfect :banana: ...........:lol:

Google Maps already shows I-22. Are there actually any signs for it?

Are there actually any signs for it?

there are signs that say "Future I-22 Corridor"

Epic view:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11943347.jpg

One of the few placed I didn't mind being stuck in traffic. :)

But seriously, I hate driving in LA!

^ That's an amazing photo.

http://asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/110/I110_CA_cl_14_north.jpg
From the top.

A very cool video of the "Big I interchange" in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

HxJE1MaexUM

The Dallas LBJexpress project will be funded by tolls. The Phoenix project will be funded by local taxes as usual. (proposition 400).

hopefully they build it here in Phoenix,
phoenix freeway system is growing so fast, it should be on the top 7 now in the country.

does anyone have any statistic of freeways lanes up to 2010.
every major freeway in phoenix now have at least 8 lanes total and all of them have HOV lanes.:banana::banana:

Interstate 76 entering Philadelphia:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PA/I/76/I76_PA_dv_343-7_east.jpg

That is a very nice picture. :)

I've driven in Philly before, a lot of the highways there are pretty narrow.

Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.

Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.

Chris,

do you have any ranking of the largest freeways systems by miles in the USA?
I think there was one from the 80s, but nothing from the last 3 years

Well, the extent of a freeway system isn't the biggest factor, it's how it relates to the extent of the population. For example, the Los Angeles freeway system appears to be very large, but relative to population it doesn't rank much better than New York City.

There was a list about freeway lane mileage relative to population. I believe Kansas City had the best, and some metro areas along I-75 in Florida (I believe the Cape Coral area) had the worst.

Chiacago at night


tAo7D8IHUBw

Chiacago at night


tAo7D8IHUBw

this is a very nice video I liked the lighting system in Chicago freeways, here in Dallas the freeways are very dark and there are few lights on the highway sides.

Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.

Worse than New York?

I'm curious, do we have any civil engineers in this thread?

Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.

Worst by what measurement?

(Actually, I find it irritating that there's no good route into Washington - a city I like a great deal, so I'm not picking on it - from the north, but Washington's well under a million, within city limits.)

Interstate 76 entering Philadelphia:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PA/I/76/I76_PA_dv_343-7_east.jpg

There's my exit.
Although the South Street bridge just reopened (not sure that's the right verb - they actually tore it down and rebuilt it) and that exit's closer to my neighborhood.
(The South Street bridge and the exit for it would be in the middle of this map, if the map were up to date....)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.947582,-75.187898&spn=0.007304,0.013711&z=16

A 10 km or so long section of I-74 in the High Point, NC area opened on Monday, 2010-11-22.

https://apps.dot.state.nc.us/pio/releases/details.aspx?r=4268

Also,

http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-story-311-bypass-101121,0,6755613.story

The remainder of I-74 southeastward to I-73 is expected to be completed in late 2012.

:dance:

Mike

Well, the extent of a freeway system isn't the biggest factor, it's how it relates to the extent of the population. For example, the Los Angeles freeway system appears to be very large, but relative to population it doesn't rank much better than New York City.

There was a list about freeway lane mileage relative to population. I believe Kansas City had the best, and some metro areas along I-75 in Florida (I believe the Cape Coral area) had the worst.

searching a bit iv'e found this one:
http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-tti99ratio.htm

but it's an 11 years old survey by now...

this is a very nice video I liked the lighting system in Chicago freeways, here in Dallas the freeways are very dark and there are few lights on the highway sides.
The whole City of Chicago is lit up like the Sun at night - I know of no other city anywhere with more and brighter streetlights. They could turn half of them off and it would still be by far the brightest city anywhere at night.

:eek:

Mike

searching a bit iv'e found this one:
http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-tti99ratio.htm

but it's an 11 years old survey by now...

I updated that list in 2009 using the same statistical method with updated data:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2689/4240369066_186717a440_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4240369066/)
freeway lane miles (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4240369066/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

thanks man.

it's very strange how Hartford makes the top 20 and Albany even the top 5 (!) despite all those cancelled freeways and stub ramps that pops up everywhere in their network...

That list is based on the TTI statistics, which do not necessarily reflect MSA or CSA equivalents.

understood.
anyway i probably put my statement with the wrong words, i think that "surprising" make more sense than "strange"

The whole City of Chicago is lit up like the Sun at night - I know of no other city anywhere with more and brighter streetlights. They could turn half of them off and it would still be by far the brightest city anywhere at night.

:eek:

Mike

this is one of the photos that I could never forget
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ahdwEauy1qzb7gjo1_500.jpg

I updated that list in 2009 using the same statistical method with updated data:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2689/4240369066_186717a440_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4240369066/)
freeway lane miles (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4240369066/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

I am sure Phoenix, and Dallas are way higher than that.
I don't think Boston has more freeway lanes that Phoenix, in the last four years Phoenix have extended almos all the freeways here

Of course Florida ranks lower include my horrible metro.

Surprising when you consider how many toll roads there are in Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slqIvmjZdis

A great tour of one of the most impressive interchanges in the United States; the stack between I-10 and Beltway 8 in Houston, Texas.

VUe3-cOIzCA

Groundbeaking on another section of I-69 in Indiana.

Dirt officially turned for I-69 section in Greene County

http://gcdailyworld.com/photos/14/05/24/1405248-L.jpg

http://gcdailyworld.com/story/1678269.html

Map of area I-69 will travel east-west through the area north of IN-58 across US 231 before turning southwesternly to parrell IN-57 to Evansville


http://goo.gl/maps/f776

^^ Do you know if stimulus funds are being used on I-69 project?

^^ Do you know if stimulus funds are being used on I-69 project?
Nope. Indiana sold the Indiana Toll Road(I-80/90) to CINTRA and Macquarie for $3.8 Billion in 2005. That money was then used in a program called "Major Moves".

A great tour of one of the most impressive interchanges in the United States; the stack between I-10 and Beltway 8 in Houston, Texas.

VUe3-cOIzCA

very nice video and analysis.

As far as i can judge by you're video : driving seems cahotic on these freeways (vehicules waving between lanes, no use of turn signals...). Besides it seems that a white solid line does not mean anything according to the number of vehicules passing even when there is a solid line.

A great tour of one of the most impressive interchanges in the United States; the stack between I-10 and Beltway 8 in Houston, Texas.

VUe3-cOIzCA

Chris

is this one larger that the High Five in Dallas?
I was in Houston and Dallas last week, it is hard to tell which one have better interchanges and Freeways.

I think DFW might have a little bit more

this is one of the photos that I could never forget
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ahdwEauy1qzb7gjo1_500.jpg

Looks like a computer chip or something

very nice video and analysis.

As far as i can judge by you're video : driving seems cahotic on these freeways (vehicules waving between lanes, no use of turn signals...). Besides it seems that a white solid line does not mean anything according to the number of vehicules passing even when there is a solid line.
That is because most Americans drive poorly, that actually isn't bad driving, it's worse here.

I-70, 55 and 64 all cross into St Louis along a single bridge. I-70 will get a new alignment on the Illinois side and connecting to the current I-70 north of downtown St Louis



http://www.newriverbridge.org/img/galleries/3Dimages/View04_Proposed_02-27-2008.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5161572128_cc05a3acbb_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/5161574294_201e23ed97_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1227/5160972017_5cbc3f1c46_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/5160977417_598ccd4a75_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1419/5160980785_7dd40c5d02_b.jpg

all photos from modot

Looks like a computer chip or something

Some great recent shots on this thread! The Chicago pic a few posts above is impressive, but doesn't really even do Chicago justice, as this was taken very high and still manages to highlight the major arteries. (Interestingly the freeways don't show up as well as the arterials, probably has to do with the lighting of local businesses along these streets). This shot covers a lot of area, believe it or not.

As for Houston, great vid, and yes, drivers are somewhat aggressive in this part of the country. I think it is a by-product of a wide open metropolitan area where car-culture is still important. You see this in similar spread-out areas: LA, Phoenix, Dallas, perhaps even Atlanta.

St. Louis is an under-rated city that is coming back. Nice to see some pro-active highway construction there.

As for Houston, great vid, and yes, drivers are somewhat aggressive in this part of the country. I think it is a by-product of a wide open metropolitan area where car-culture is still important. You see this in similar spread-out areas: LA, Phoenix, Dallas, perhaps even Atlanta.

I doubt it, in Europe the most aggressive driving style can be seen in the cities least built for the car (Rome, Palermo, Athens, Napels, etc.), while the tamest driving styles can be found in cities built for road traffic (Copenhagen, Berlin, Stockholm, etc.)

I-70, 55 and 64 all cross into St Louis along a single bridge. I-70 will get a new alignment on the Illinois side and connecting to the current I-70 north of downtown St Louis

There's a piece of I-70 - from the current 55/64/70 interchange just south of the arch to the junction with the new segment - that will need a new number. Do we know what that number will be?