Pennsylvania licence tests are a total farce. I live in rural PA (well not that rural, but not in the city) and in my school district NOBODY learnt to drive. They were all "taught" by their parents (who half of them can't drive either). The test? Parking lot, 5 minute drive on the road and you're done. Pff.

Yeah Chicago is one of the worst cities as far as drivers go but at least they are all trying to get to their destinations quickly(aggressive driving).
True That!
They aren't called F.I.B's for nothing! :smug: j/k... sort of

To get a license in the state of Maryland:
1.Be 16 years and 6 months old minimum
2.Complete 30 hours of driver's ed, including 6 hours of driving time with teacher
3.Complete 60 hours of supervised driving(usually a parent who has to fill up a log)
4.Complete a test, which involves driving in the parking lot
5.Hold learner's permit for 9 months
6.No moving violations

Those driving tests are a joke. No wonder U.S. traffic fatalities are much higher than Europe.

yeah, I got my license in Bulgaria in 2003. First a lot of reading. There were 60 questions, and I had to answer 55 to pass (92%). There was a lot of driving with an instructor in the heaviest traffic and on the highway too. Then the driving test was really hard. You have to drive in the center of the city during rush hour when the traffic is terrible. It's hard to get a driver license in Europe.
Then in 2006 I came to the US. The computer test was not hard even though I didn't speak much English. I had to answer 20 out of 25. The driving test was super easy. French Parking, 10 minutes of driving on side roads of a suburb where I was the only car on the road. It cost me 200-250 euros to get a BG driver license (it's much more now) and only 40-45 dollars to get a WA license.

Those driving tests are a joke. No wonder U.S. traffic fatalities are much higher than Europe.

Well whenever we try to do something in this country on a federal level the southern states moan and groan and block everything. Hench why were behind you guys on almost everything.....except donating aid...

Those driving tests are a joke. No wonder U.S. traffic fatalities are much higher than Europe.

Yeah, but getting a license in my state was much easier in the past. They changed the rules 8 or so years ago. Also I found out a year ago that MD did not had a law requiring drivers to use their turn signals until recently.

Do you guys think it's better to regulate some aspects of highway usage and driving requirements at a federal level?

For instance, to harmonize driving lessons requirements and traffic rules?

Do you guys think it's better to regulate some aspects of highway usage and driving requirements at a federal level?

For instance, to harmonize driving lessons requirements and traffic rules?

I think it might be easier to introduce stricter driving tests at the state levels rather than wait for some federal regulation.
States will be reluctant to cede powers in that field to the federal government.

I think most of the driving rules are already quite similar in all the states. They differ only in details.

Do you guys think it's better to regulate some aspects of highway usage and driving requirements at a federal level?

For instance, to harmonize driving lessons requirements and traffic rules?

It's a good idea, but you might get into a constitutional argument. The Federal government has the right to legislate in specific areas; everything else falls to the states. Now, the courts have interpreted some of the federal powers very broadly*, and I personally think traffic laws could come under interstate commerce, but you'd still have the argument. (Federally legislating licensing requirements might not be as easy.)

*Have I ever mentioned how we got a national drinking age (21)? It wasn't legislated strictly as such; instead, Congress threatened to withhold highway funding from any state that had a drinking age lower than 21. That was found by the Supreme Court to be a legitimate exercise by Congress of its right to determine how federal money is spent.

Construction on a new Inner Belt Bridge(I-90) has started.


Inner Belt Bridge construction begins as massive supports are hammered into bedrock

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A new, pounding rhythm echoes in the Cuyahoga River valley. And it won't stop till fall.
It's the sound of a bridge being built.

A heavy-duty crane began hammering steel I-beams down to bedrock Wednesday, to anchor the first support, or pier, to go up for the new Inner Belt Bridge.

Eventually, crews will drive 10 miles of welded beams into the ground. The pilings are part of the base for the 13, two-legged piers that will support the bridge across the river valley.

"It will be like elevator music, in the background," Ohio Department of Transportation spokeswoman Jocelynn Clemings said of the months-long hammering.

http://www.ideastream.org/common/images/news/2010/1217innerbelt2.jpg

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/03/inner_belt_bridge_construction_3.html

^^Where is this relative to the current bridge? Is it replacing it in the same location, is it in a slightly different location...? If I were in Cleveland tomorrow (just hypothetically), would I find I-90 closed?

I have been to Cleveland once, on a sunny last weekend in June. Drove I-90 from the western suburbs to where I was staying in Mentor just before sunset, when everything facing west is just bathed in light. Pretty impressive city, highway-wise.

^^Where is this relative to the current bridge? Is it replacing it in the same location, is it in a slightly different location...? If I were in Cleveland tomorrow (just hypothetically), would I find I-90 closed?

I have been to Cleveland once, on a sunny last weekend in June. Drove I-90 from the western suburbs to where I was staying in Mentor just before sunset, when everything facing west is just bathed in light. Pretty impressive city, highway-wise.

This new bridge will be for WB traffic once everything is finished, the current bridge will be torn down a new built in its place for EB traffic. So I-90 will be open for the entire project.

^^ innerbelt

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/Innerbelt/PublishingImages/CG%20large_10-21-10sm.jpg

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/Innerbelt/Documents/CG%20large_10-21-10sm.pdf
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/Innerbelt/Pages/default.aspx

Dallas High Five

Much has been said. Many photographs and videos have been taken of this interchange. But this is THE ultimate Dallas High Five video!

I recommend to watch it at full HD and full-screen!

gSaUAC7cbOY

US 53 & I-94 Interchange in Eau Claire, WI

http://fileresource.sitepro.com/filemanager/202/imagecollections/1825/C5152DE6-105A-DB43-5B5E-FDE2EBFAA02C.jpg

Commonwel Development corp.
http://fileresource.sitepro.com/filemanager/202/imagecollections/1826/D64C9FB1-6125-B38E-804C-EA06B38B0806.jpg

Commonwel Development corp.

Mod Request: Is it possible to move the licensing conversation to separate thread?

Beautiful drive through the mountains of Virginia

pBRGSwt9PIg

nwsqhasMTlM

Beautifiul drive through mountain of Virginia

You did it wrong. You must drive the entire length of US-50 west from I-66 to I-81. That takes you through the town of Middleburg. That town is awesome. The next town is a tourist trap though.

As for the green poles, I think they're there to prevent glare from vehicles' headlights. The two sections of road must be close together as the highway is going through a narrow valley there, so driving at night would be unnecessarily difficult at highway speeds when you have to deal with approaching headlights.

Someone shortened this threat rather indiscriminately....

But, Nerdly Dood, as I said yesterday evening (between stupid remarks, an interesting discussion, and bitching about how - gasp - we were off-topic, which I think is debatable) I did that 66/US 50 sequence one weekend last October. Went to the State Department book sale then out to Winchester for the night; the next day - a bright, sunny Sunday - I did a glorious drive up to State College, Pa., mostly using US 522, noting a transition in leaf color from green in Winchester to peak foliage in Pennsylvania.

Before anyone deletes this, I'll point out that 66, mentioned above, is an Interstate, 522 puts you onto I-70 briefly, and I got home from State College using I-99 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76).

Perhaps we need a third U.S. thread, for U.S. Interstates, U.S. roads that aren't Interstates, and U.S. topics that aren't directly about roads but are about driving, and which no one would have a problem with if we were on one of the other country threads.

I-85 Northbound in Atlanta, GA. Friday evening, about 8:30pm, 4-29-11. I took this because I love the digital billboards against the beautiful green trees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvhL4nVErEQ

Another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mud-onUaQvk

I-85 Northbound in Atlanta, GA. Friday evening, about 8:30pm, 4-29-11. I took this because I love the digital billboards against the beautiful green trees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvhL4nVErEQ

Another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mud-onUaQvk

I was driving 85 southbound one morning just south of 285, and... there was a billboard with an almost-lifesize cutout of a bomb-laden F-16 and exhortation for Christians to defend Israel. Immediately in front of it was an electronic billboard advertizing good deals on the Hadj. :lol:

So I haven't been participating in the discussion much late...but I'm back! :cheers: Couple things I've learned recently for Washington State:

- Active Traffic Management is now up for SR 520 and I-5, and I-90 will be up soon in a few weeks (completing 40-day testing right now). All speed limits and lane control signs (merge arrows, red x for lane closures) are mandatory. I believe this system is the second in the U.S., and the first to establish mandatory speed limits and lane usage directions.

Seems like people don't really understand the purpose of it yet, but when accidents occur, most people seem to merge out of the lane before the blocking accident, which has improved traffic flow.

- Tolling on SR 520 will begin in July, and if enough people divert to I-90 to avoid the tolls, chances are I-90 will be tolled as well. Gas tax revenue is diminishing rapidly so WSDOT is looking at tolling as the next alternative. Rumor has it that tolling in the future will become mile-based, so a deduction will occur every mile of road (electronically obviously).

- Quieter pavement (open-grade porous pavement) testing is showing poor results. Test sections that were put in four years ago have rutted and are failing.

- WSDOT has been discussing issues of retroflectivity of pavement markings, especially yellow markings. They are not holding up well. I don't have details of what they might be doing next. I also asked and they are not planning on using white markings on both edge lines for dual carriageways (although that is done for reversible express lanes).

That's it so far, cheers!

So I haven't been participating in the discussion much late...but I'm back! :cheers: Couple things I've learned recently for Washington State:

- Active Traffic Management is now up for SR 520 and I-5, and I-90 will be up soon in a few weeks (completing 40-day testing right now). All speed limits and lane control signs (merge arrows, red x for lane closures) are mandatory. I believe this system is the second in the U.S., and the first to establish mandatory speed limits and lane usage directions.

Seems like people don't really understand the purpose of it yet, but when accidents occur, most people seem to merge out of the lane before the blocking accident, which has improved traffic flow.

- Tolling on SR 520 will begin in July, and if enough people divert to I-90 to avoid the tolls, chances are I-90 will be tolled as well. Gas tax revenue is diminishing rapidly so WSDOT is looking at tolling as the next alternative. Rumor has it that tolling in the future will become mile-based, so a deduction will occur every mile of road (electronically obviously).

- Quieter pavement (open-grade porous pavement) testing is showing poor results. Test sections that were put in four years ago have rutted and are failing.

- WSDOT has been discussing issues of retroflectivity of pavement markings, especially yellow markings. They are not holding up well. I don't have details of what they might be doing next. I also asked and they are not planning on using white markings on both edge lines for dual carriageways (although that is done for reversible express lanes).

That's it so far, cheers!

This should be the standard for Urban / Suburban Freeways all across the US.

This should be the standard for Urban / Suburban Freeways all across the US.

I agree for the most part, except tolling. I much rather prefer a gas tax. Tolling requires that the DOTs spend money to implement tolling infrastructure before collection can actually begin. A gas tax also provides people with incentives to purchase more efficient vehicles.

But ATM is a must. Although the amount of add-lanes and exit-only lanes make things more difficult than they need to be.

Will they ever repave the worst sections of I-5 between downtown Seattle and the border with Snohomish County (Shoreline exit 177)? That section is so bad. The concrete is probably 50 years old and not smooth at all. Also the markings (the dots on the road) on Hwy 99 in Snohomish County between 188 St SW and 244 St SW are almost non-existant. That has been like that for more than 2 years. I can't understand why they regularly repaint and repave small streets and they don't even touch the main roads/highways?

Will they ever repave the worst sections of I-5 between downtown Seattle and the border with Snohomish County (Shoreline exit 177)? That section is so bad. The concrete is probably 50 years old and not smooth at all. Also the markings (the dots on the road) on Hwy 99 in Snohomish County between 188 St SW and 244 St SW are almost non-existant. That has been like that for more than 2 years. I can't understand why they regularly repaint and repave small streets and they don't even touch the main roads/highways?

That section recently underwent concrete rehabilitation. WSDOT installed dowel bars between concrete panels, replaced the most heavily cracked panels, and then diamond-ground off the top 1/4 inch of the entire stretch of roadway to improve the road surface. It feels nice driving on it, but it's far from pleasing to the eye.

But of course, that's just a temporary fix. Actual reconstruction of the highway won't happen until 2017.

do you know when they reconstruct that part of I-5 will they replace it with new concrete or asphalt.

I agree for the most part, except tolling. I much rather prefer a gas tax. Tolling requires that the DOTs spend money to implement tolling infrastructure before collection can actually begin. A gas tax also provides people with incentives to purchase more efficient vehicles.

But ATM is a must. Although the amount of add-lanes and exit-only lanes make things more difficult than they need to be.

Isn't adding tolls to a currently-free Interstate (I'm referring to your mention of I-90 farther up the thread) built with federal funds illegal? The Rendell administration tried at least twice to get permission from the feds (no idea what agency) to add tolls to Pennsylvania's stretch of I-80, and was shot down.

Isn't adding tolls to a currently-free Interstate (I'm referring to your mention of I-90 farther up the thread) built with federal funds illegal? The Rendell administration tried at least twice to get permission from the feds (no idea what agency) to add tolls to Pennsylvania's stretch of I-80, and was shot down.

As far as I know, funding sources for highways have becomes so drained that the federal government is actually starting to promote tolls. No one wants to the raise the gas tax. It hasn't exactly been publicized yet, but state and federal lawmakers are both considering it now.

do you know when they reconstruct that part of I-5 will they replace it with new concrete or asphalt.

Most likely concrete. From plans that I've read from WSDOT's website, they will be replacing the current 9-inch PCC pavement with 12-inch PCC pavement.

They also recently rehabilitated I-90 PCC pavement as well in Mercer Island. That's being done at a much earlier point in the pavement's lifetime than I-5 and will probably increase the life of the pavement dramatically.

Actually you are right. The section between Tukwila and Northgate is very smooth now, but they haven't touched the section between Northgate and Shoreline (exit 177) and it's still very bumpy and noisy

Isn't adding tolls to a currently-free Interstate (I'm referring to your mention of I-90 farther up the thread) built with federal funds illegal? The Rendell administration tried at least twice to get permission from the feds (no idea what agency) to add tolls to Pennsylvania's stretch of I-80, and was shot down.
do you mean that all interstates are FREE?

do you mean that all interstates are FREE?

Those that weren't built as toll roads (most if not all of them before getting the Interstate designation) are.

There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.

that's true, but you don't have to pay every time you get on them

There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.

[sigh]
You know perfectly well what Botev meant.

There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.

That happens to be the platform of the Republican Party. :nuts:

That happens to be the platform of the Republican Party. :nuts:
No taxes? Sounds more like a Libertarian thing.

if there were no taxes, who would fund the roads?

if there were no taxes, who would fund the roads?

They won't be funded and fall into Disrepair....:ohno:

VIDEOS

From Oceanside to San Diego / 04.2011/ 1080p HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbKcu3DUu2Y

Inbound Los Angeles from South to Hollywood blvd /05.2011/ 720p HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ous84OTN0fk

Driving from San Diego up North/ 04.2011/ 1080p HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa2p_eNMQCU

Please rate the videos.
And comments are welcome

They won't be funded and fall into Disrepair....:ohno:
so the newest 3rd world country. No thanks. I prefer to pay and drive on nice roads

That section recently underwent concrete rehabilitation. WSDOT installed dowel bars between concrete panels, replaced the most heavily cracked panels, and then diamond-ground off the top 1/4 inch of the entire stretch of roadway to improve the road surface. It feels nice driving on it, but it's far from pleasing to the eye.

But of course, that's just a temporary fix. Actual reconstruction of the highway won't happen until 2017.

Do you know if the 2017 reconstruction will also affect the corridor from southern King County through Olympia? I noticed an asphalt stretch in Pierce County (Fife/Milton) was recently repaved (funded with stimulus dollars). The rest of the concrete is also over 50 years old and is dire condition as well.

so the newest 3rd world country. No thanks. I prefer to pay and drive on nice roads

Hear, hear! I generally try to avoid politics here and am glad others generally do likewise - there are plenty of other places on the Internet for that - but our national allergy to taxes and government spending (within reason, of course) does not serve us well.

Will they ever repave the worst sections of I-5 between downtown Seattle and the border with Snohomish County (Shoreline exit 177)? That section is so bad. The concrete is probably 50 years old and not smooth at all. Also the markings (the dots on the road) on Hwy 99 in Snohomish County between 188 St SW and 244 St SW are almost non-existant. That has been like that for more than 2 years. I can't understand why they regularly repaint and repave small streets and they don't even touch the main roads/highways?

Well, the state is $5bn short in cash, all because voters repealed the "candy" tax and rejected increased taxes on the richest 1%. Millions of dollars by DC corporate lobbyists were spent to convince residents that paying 2 cents extra on a bottle of Coke was preposterous.

The roads and streets are so terrible in areas that they pose a safety hazard. Many are blowing out the shocks and struts on cars.

Not surprising really. Americans are cheap IMO.

Does anyone know what happened to the pavement on I-5 southbound between exit 182 and 181 in Lynnwood. The pavement was perfect until they started the new tunnel project which has nothing to do with the pavement because it is outside of the freeway. So they removed the top layer of asphalt and now the road looks really bad and there is a sign Grooved pavement and believe me it's really dangerous especially if you drive a smaller car. It's been like that for more than 8 months. Does anyone know why they did that and will they fix it? They are only building a tunnel (braided ramp)

Not surprising really. Americans are cheap IMO.
No just ignorant and stupid, we have the money to fix our roads however the funds are being used elsewhere. It's the same bullshit that social security is broke, the program has a surplus but they borrowed money from it for other things. America is the country where the rich lie and take your money and then the lower class fight for lower taxes for the rich but yeah a lot of politics. Point is we should have the right amount of money diverted to infrastructure.

I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine

I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine
Depends on where in the US you are but yeah some places you would never think the roads are bad.

Do you know if the 2017 reconstruction will also affect the corridor from southern King County through Olympia? I noticed an asphalt stretch in Pierce County (Fife/Milton) was recently repaved (funded with stimulus dollars). The rest of the concrete is also over 50 years old and is dire condition as well.

I think it's just the section between Tukwila and Northgate. Reconstructing that section alone would be a massive financial burden if you think about how many thousands of concrete panels they will have to replace.

Does anyone know what happened to the pavement on I-5 southbound between exit 182 and 181 in Lynnwood. The pavement was perfect until they started the new tunnel project which has nothing to do with the pavement because it is outside of the freeway. So they removed the top layer of asphalt and now the road looks really bad and there is a sign Grooved pavement and believe me it's really dangerous especially if you drive a smaller car. It's been like that for more than 8 months. Does anyone know why they did that and will they fix it? They are only building a tunnel (braided ramp)

Hmm, I'm not sure about that one. They're also doing drainage work and shifting lanes around, but I don't get why that would require removing the top layer. I'll go check it out sometime.

Depends on where in the US you are but yeah some places you would never think the roads are bad.

USA really does have the best roads/highways in the world. I'm up in Canada (Vancouver) and I marvel at the highways the states have whenever I come down.

I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine

Yeah, overall the roads here are pretty good, but given how wealthly our country is they should be perfect

USA really does have the best roads/highways in the world. I'm up in Canada (Vancouver) and I marvel at the highways the states have whenever I come down.
Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though

Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though

Vancouver decided to not route a highway through the city to focus more on transit. In terms of a planning and smart growth perspective, it's worked. Vancouver is significantly denser and more homogenous than Seattle with great transit ridership.

My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).

I have noticed that they don't repave the bridge decks on the freeways. Even if they repave the freeway with brand new asphalt, they leave the old concrete on the bridge decks? Why don't they change it too?

My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).
This is one thing that really impressed me when I moved to the USA. It's really convenient when a highway takes you into the city. If you live close by the freeway, you get to any place you want fast. Unfortunately the traffic is getting worse and worse

Here are two pics of the H1 in "town". Note that HI DOT uses those durable white tack looking things instead of painting passing lines on the pavement.
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2929/honolulu4.jpg
photo by unknown author

don't they come off? There are a lot of roads with missing botts dots here. I still don't know why they keep using these on city roads (Lynnwood, Bellevue, Renton) instead of paint or profiled marking. The reflective markings are good and very helpful but the others are not necessary. They don't survive and they don't replace them either

^^ There is no snow in Hawaii, hence no snowplows that destroy them.

It rarely snows in Seattle area. The snow isn't the only problem. The heavy trucks are a bigger problem. They break them

Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though

Thats a good way of putting it. I love the interstate system. But I agree they could stand to improve the road surfaces in some areas.

Get a luxury SUV and you won't even feel it :lol:

Vancouver decided to not route a highway through the city to focus more on transit. In terms of a planning and smart growth perspective, it's worked. Vancouver is significantly denser and more homogenous than Seattle with great transit ridership.

My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).

Vancouver should at least have a by-pass highway from the border though. What about all the traffic going up the west coast past Vancouver?

We either have HWY 99 that is a freeway that ends abruptly at the edge of Vancouver. Or we have the "Pacific Highway" that connects the alternate border crossing in Surrey with HWY 1 and cuts through Langley. But its nothing more than a 4 lane road with many MANY traffic lights. Both routes are inadequate

I-405 road work. The concrete is really old and rough so it has been diamond-grounded as a temporary fix before repaving next year.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/HAWC1506/2008%20October%20Highway%20Pictures/DSC01539.jpg

Is that northbound or southbound? Because I-405 northbound before and a little after Bellevue hasn't been fixed. It's still that old rough concrete 3 years later

But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though

In our defense, a higher proportion of Spain's and France's freeways are newer than most of ours: I recently came across some road maps from my first trip to France in 1985 and was surprised by how many of the autoroutes I'm familiar with are not on the map, not even under construction. In the U.S., I'd guess roughly 90 percent of today's Interstate system was open by then.

Which doesn't excuse lack of maintenance, of course....

True. France had a surprisingly small Autoroute network until the 1980's, only the most important routes were completed at that time. Around 1967-1969 France and the Netherlands had the same network length (France is 16 times larger). It should be noted that the French government owned Autoroutes are generally of much lower quality than the toll routes, especially in the North and East.

However, I do agree that age does not justify bad road quality. We have freeways in the Netherlands that are over 50 years old and still have impeccable quality.

[snip]It should be noted that the French government owned Autoroutes are generally of much lower quality than the toll routes, especially in the North and East.[snip]

I was looking the other day at...is it Piotr71?'s...pictures of the A25/N225. Can't remember if it was here or on his Picasa page. I was stunned, particularly at the N225. In fact, would it be fair to say that U.S. government-owned, toll-free Interstates (which is most of them) are generally better in quality than French government-owned, toll-free autoroutes and voies express? :-D

Beskedy's I think, and I was also surprised

Interstate 40 closed for traffic in Arkansas, around mile 202, due to flooding.

The 110 in LA

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/5653116874_5127df3547_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45046667@N04/5653116874/)
Skyline L.A. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45046667@N04/5653116874/) by Claus from Germany (http://www.flickr.com/people/45046667@N04/), on Flickr

I have noticed that they don't repave the bridge decks on the freeways. Even if they repave the freeway with brand new asphalt, they leave the old concrete on the bridge decks? Why don't they change it too?

I have no idea, I've been wondering that myself. I think it has to do with the difficulty of dealing with expansion joints, approach slabs, and the effort required to make the pavement on the bridge deck completely level with its surroundings. I'll ask around and try to get an answer though.


don't they come off? There are a lot of roads with missing botts dots here. I still don't know why they keep using these on city roads (Lynnwood, Bellevue, Renton) instead of paint or profiled marking. The reflective markings are good and very helpful but the others are not necessary. They don't survive and they don't replace them either

They come off all the time. WSDOT started using plastic profiled pavement markings instead of raised pavement markings. Apparently they last almost four times as long. I guess City jurisdictions haven't really caught on yet, but they don't deal with the traffic intensity or wear and tear that highways get, so it might be a cost issue. Profiled markings cost twice as much as the raised pavement markings.


Vancouver should at least have a by-pass highway from the border though. What about all the traffic going up the west coast past Vancouver?

That's true, driving through Vancouver is a pain. A bypass sure would be nice. The Downtown area is a huge hassle to get through, and there are barely any designated turning lanes for traffic turning left so it clogs everything up.


Is that northbound or southbound? Because I-405 northbound before and a little after Bellevue hasn't been fixed. It's still that old rough concrete 3 years later

That would be northbound. The rehabilitated section on I-405 was actually a quieter-pavement test section, where WSDOT evaluated methods to reduce noise associated with pavement. I don't think the section closer to Bellevue will be repaved in the near future. For the most part, the Open-Graded asphalt sections have failed (miserably...) because of studded tire use. The test sections on SR 520 are rutted and are starting to develop potholes. They also sound just as loud as regular HMA at this point.

The asphalt section on I-405 was different in that WSDOT wanted to evaluate whether or not installing the pavement at a higher temperature would affect its performance over time, so they waited until the weather was above 65 degrees before installing the pavement. The concrete section was diamond grinding.

On another note, the SR 520 bridge replacement project will introduce managed shoulder running for the first time in conjunction with Active Traffic Management (although there won't be a dedicated lane control sign above the shoulder).

I believe this sign will also be used, in LED form. What makes it even more interesting is that this sign isn't in the MUTCD yet.

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop10023/images/fig29.jpg

It makes me wonder whether one day we will switch completely to International Vienna Convention style road signs.

Looks like WSDOT visited the Netherlands.

Looks like WSDOT visited the Netherlands.

Yes they did. They visited six European countries in 2006, including the Netherlands, Germany and the UK. They were impressed by the Dutch system for speed harmonization.

Some pictures I took today. I used a smartphone, so the quality is not great

I-5 South in Shoreline, WA with 50-year old concrete pavement

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSlhtnCAI/AAAAAAAAOJ0/fxo132GgSOc/IMG_20110510_145509.jpg

I-5 South in Seattle before Northgate with the same 50 year-old concrete pavement

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTuVtdtWI/AAAAAAAAOVk/YvY77Hza034/IMG_20110510_145733.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTuobPVrI/AAAAAAAAOVs/OB8Suhk41i8/IMG_20110510_145740.jpg

I-5 South in Seattle with rehabilitated concrete pavement. It looks bad but it's actually pretty smooth

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTweDZQII/AAAAAAAAOWE/5nREUSN5BEI/IMG_20110510_145854.jpg

I-5 North in Shoreline, WA

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSmixXa8I/AAAAAAAAOKE/kOjViMEbPCE/IMG_20110510_154421.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSojDi1WI/AAAAAAAAOKs/3lKfWRA_W78/IMG_20110510_154552.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSo4xfjLI/AAAAAAAAOK0/RELrs-EJf8E/IMG_20110510_154557.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSqBONPoI/AAAAAAAAOLE/K8QMnQFBqUM/IMG_20110510_154653.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSrt4mx3I/AAAAAAAAOLk/SqXWDlZgUdw/IMG_20110510_154809.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSsCl6pqI/AAAAAAAAOLs/i5PbQMHiQHs/IMG_20110510_154837.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnStUzrcGI/AAAAAAAAOME/gFpC7uVvMUE/IMG_20110510_154926.jpg

I-5 North in Mountlake Terrace, WA with good asphalt pavement

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSP-S1_oI/AAAAAAAAOIg/dTMTjAC5ns0/IMG_20110510_155049.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnSQw93khI/AAAAAAAAOI4/oYd2kVDwKgk/IMG_20110510_155142.jpg

I-5 North in Lynnwood, WA with brand new (2-year old) asphalt pavement

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTHgQPJ9I/AAAAAAAAOMc/rSYs4hoVdcE/IMG_20110510_155346.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTIa-CdPI/AAAAAAAAOMs/mtAfyQIyp4A/IMG_20110510_155402.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTK8UKZ4I/AAAAAAAAONk/clxvKRxo8hs/IMG_20110510_155505.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTMMTqSoI/AAAAAAAAOOE/2aO2Vm2cGTA/IMG_20110510_155543.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTMTYAe-I/AAAAAAAAOOM/8pfhIyHygqo/IMG_20110510_155558.jpg

I-405 South in Lynnwood, WA with perfectly smooth asphalt pavement

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTNXAFD2I/AAAAAAAAOOk/14-xrb09smU/IMG_20110510_155705.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTOVhnnKI/AAAAAAAAOO0/VcO4awOO8dE/IMG_20110510_155738.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTPPkS79I/AAAAAAAAOPM/OsZCM2ZY1S4/IMG_20110510_155824.jpg

I-405 South in Bothell, WA with very smooth asphalt pavement

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnRuDUHH-I/AAAAAAAAOF0/wM5SLdFv1o8/IMG_20110510_155903.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnRv4kLqqI/AAAAAAAAOGU/LXcqEF_50C4/IMG_20110510_155954.jpg

I-405 North in Bothell, WA with very smooth asphalt pavement

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnRxQI96VI/AAAAAAAAOG0/D8PsXg3HsbE/IMG_20110510_160136.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnRyeJKKTI/AAAAAAAAOHM/3AqrEjRsycc/IMG_20110510_160229.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnRzvslmjI/AAAAAAAAOHk/629CGjsrtuI/IMG_20110510_160305.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnR0JbCyFI/AAAAAAAAOHs/gOk0en3nXh8/IMG_20110510_160310.jpg

I-405 North in Lynnwood, WA

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTPheQheI/AAAAAAAAOPU/zPuLMNvMyqY/IMG_20110510_160410.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTQa1j56I/AAAAAAAAOPs/PH03wUOXL0U/IMG_20110510_160501.jpg

I-5 North again in Lynnwood, WA

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTQ9fc2wI/AAAAAAAAOP8/oXKSMfaGPDA/IMG_20110510_160541.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTRSIF7TI/AAAAAAAAOQM/3ER_oOTYm1E/IMG_20110510_160631.jpg

I-5 South in Lynnwood, WA with perfect asphalt pavement

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTRmJW3PI/AAAAAAAAOQU/qBb5kEF91Tk/IMG_20110510_160820.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTR-m74II/AAAAAAAAOQc/p0OjNURegEI/IMG_20110510_160831.jpg

This is the grooved pavement I mentioned on a previous page. Before starting the tunnel project the pavement was exactly the same as the picture above. I don't know why they removed the top layer of asphalt and put signs Grooved pavement and Motorcycles use extreme caution.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTSbAGfiI/AAAAAAAAOQs/Yp-qviBTb3A/IMG_20110510_160901.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTUveXymI/AAAAAAAAOQ4/vda5JzOk-i0/IMG_20110510_160906.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTVIEDGPI/AAAAAAAAORI/6lfzx6Spqi4/IMG_20110510_160917.jpg

This is a view of I-5 North from Alderwood Mall Parkway in Lynnwood, WA

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTW-Of8NI/AAAAAAAAORo/g0P26oScous/IMG_20110510_161556.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTXv5eQuI/AAAAAAAAOR4/cZBP3Wtr6i4/IMG_20110510_161610.jpg

I-5 South

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTYTzMf0I/AAAAAAAAOSI/sNPe3ijZl9U/IMG_20110510_161643.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTYm6dPgI/AAAAAAAAOSQ/ovOKW4rrMf8/IMG_20110510_161653.jpg

They are building a tunnel (braided ramp)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTaob-XTI/AAAAAAAAOTA/zPjPniY1JFQ/IMG_20110510_162030.jpg

I-5 South

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTcdtwlpI/AAAAAAAAOTs/nTbTZK_heII/IMG_20110510_162121.jpg

I-5 North

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcnTdt6StmI/AAAAAAAAOUI/jSQ8D--uYW0/IMG_20110510_162203.jpg

Highway signs

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcBt4Sud07I/AAAAAAAAFHQ/nd7O0s35164/IMG_0083.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcBt4oi4WOI/AAAAAAAAFHU/4x4n7fZ7hB4/IMG_0085.JPG

Beware Seattle drivers!

Troopers pull over 223 passing lane 'campers' in King County

SEATTLE – Washington state troopers in King County pulled over 223 drivers last month who camped out in the freeway passing lane, breaking a law that not many drivers know about. Of those, 199 were let off with warnings.

The Washington State Patrol is putting higher emphasis on keeping slower traffic in the right lane and out of the left general purpose lane, which is the designated passing lane.

Many of those who were pulled over didn't know it was against the law, the state patrol said. Troopers told them to stay out of the left lane if traveling below freeway speeds and not to travel continuously in the left lane for no reason. Violators could be fined $124.

One of the concerns for enforcing the law is aggressive drivers who get frustrated at the slower traffic in front of them and, as a result, dart from lane to lane to get by other cars.

The HOV lane does not count as the so-called "fast lane." However, that is not the case on those freeways that have HOV lanes that are not enforced 24 hours a day, such as Interstate 405, Interstate 90 east of I-405 and State Route 167. Those HOV lanes are only enforced 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. At all other times, the HOV lane then becomes the designated passing lane.

"When HOV lanes are open to all traffic, they should be treated like a regular left-side freeway lane. Left-side freeway lanes are normally reserved for passing, so are only to be used to pass," WSP spokesman Dan Coon told KING 5 last month.

It seems to me that only the left lane is the legal passing lane, and the middle lane isn't...Still a disappointment, but nonetheless an improvement.

Nice pics above, and they are very good for a smartphone taken in moving traffic. :)

It seems to me that only the left lane is the legal passing lane, and the middle lane isn't...Still a disappointment, but nonetheless an improvement.
The middle can't be with so much traffic. Just wondering during rush hours when all lanes are congested, would they still pull you over for barely moving in the left lane

The middle can't be with so much traffic. Just wondering during rush hours when all lanes are congested, would they still pull you over for barely moving in the left lane

I highly doubt it. Obviously keep right except to pass wouldn't work when traffic isn't free flow. But that still doesn't mean that people should cruise in the middle lane when the right lane is wide open. Not to mention, keeping right except to pass can probably alleviate some congestion since it improves traffic flow.

Actually I did a little project where I counted the cars per lane on a segment of I-90. The right lane had the least traffic over the course of an hour. :bash:

When I was in Europe last summer, I drove in Bulgaria and Spain and I rode a bus in Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia and Italy. Drivers there know that when you pass a car, you have to go back in the right lane. Traffic flow is so much faster when everyone does it. You almost never slow down except when there is traffic (one of the highways in Italy was completely congested during rush hour). So they have to start giving tickets or at least warnings in the US and drivers will learn that they can't drive in the left lane

When I was in Europe last summer, I drove in Bulgaria and Spain and I rode a bus in Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia and Italy. Drivers there know that when you pass a car, you have to go back in the right lane.

In Italy, until a number of years ago (can't remember exactly how many) right lane was called "slow moving vehicle lane", so you were actually allowed to ride in the middle lane unless you were driving "slow" (don't know how much, either). Now the highway code has changed and you always have to drive in the "righmost possible lane". Central and external lane(s) are ONLY for passing.

I highly doubt it. Obviously keep right except to pass wouldn't work when traffic isn't free flow. But that still doesn't mean that people should cruise in the middle lane when the right lane is wide open. Not to mention, keeping right except to pass can probably alleviate some congestion since it improves traffic flow.

Actually I did a little project where I counted the cars per lane on a segment of I-90. The right lane had the least traffic over the course of an hour. :bash:


Actually, I tend to favor the middle lane; less opportunity for conflict with entering and exiting traffic. Sorry....

Beware Seattle drivers!

Troopers pull over 223 passing lane 'campers' in King County

SEATTLE – Washington state troopers in King County pulled over 223 drivers last month who camped out in the freeway passing lane, breaking a law that not many drivers know about. Of those, 199 were let off with warnings.

The Washington State Patrol is putting higher emphasis on keeping slower traffic in the right lane and out of the left general purpose lane, which is the designated passing lane.

Many of those who were pulled over didn't know it was against the law, the state patrol said. Troopers told them to stay out of the left lane if traveling below freeway speeds and not to travel continuously in the left lane for no reason. Violators could be fined $124.

One of the concerns for enforcing the law is aggressive drivers who get frustrated at the slower traffic in front of them and, as a result, dart from lane to lane to get by other cars.

The HOV lane does not count as the so-called "fast lane." However, that is not the case on those freeways that have HOV lanes that are not enforced 24 hours a day, such as Interstate 405, Interstate 90 east of I-405 and State Route 167. Those HOV lanes are only enforced 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. At all other times, the HOV lane then becomes the designated passing lane.

"When HOV lanes are open to all traffic, they should be treated like a regular left-side freeway lane. Left-side freeway lanes are normally reserved for passing, so are only to be used to pass," WSP spokesman Dan Coon told KING 5 last month.

It seems to me that only the left lane is the legal passing lane, and the middle lane isn't...Still a disappointment, but nonetheless an improvement.
In Florida they'd probably pull over 22,223, people here are clueless to the passing lane and it is a law!! When driving on the interstates when there are breaks in traffic you will hit clusters of cars which I call the "cluster of idiots" where nobody can get around them. So I and other drivers resort to aggressive driving like cutting off and squeezing in tight spaces to get through the "cluster of idiots". It is ridiculous since I always try to get out of the passing lane ASAP, maybe because I'm European.

Beware Seattle drivers!

Troopers pull over 223 passing lane 'campers' in King County

SEATTLE – Washington state troopers in King County pulled over 223 drivers last month who camped out in the freeway passing lane, breaking a law that not many drivers know about. Of those, 199 were let off with warnings.

The Washington State Patrol is putting higher emphasis on keeping slower traffic in the right lane and out of the left general purpose lane, which is the designated passing lane.

Many of those who were pulled over didn't know it was against the law, the state patrol said. Troopers told them to stay out of the left lane if traveling below freeway speeds and not to travel continuously in the left lane for no reason. Violators could be fined $124.

One of the concerns for enforcing the law is aggressive drivers who get frustrated at the slower traffic in front of them and, as a result, dart from lane to lane to get by other cars.

The HOV lane does not count as the so-called "fast lane." However, that is not the case on those freeways that have HOV lanes that are not enforced 24 hours a day, such as Interstate 405, Interstate 90 east of I-405 and State Route 167. Those HOV lanes are only enforced 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. At all other times, the HOV lane then becomes the designated passing lane.

"When HOV lanes are open to all traffic, they should be treated like a regular left-side freeway lane. Left-side freeway lanes are normally reserved for passing, so are only to be used to pass," WSP spokesman Dan Coon told KING 5 last month.

It seems to me that only the left lane is the legal passing lane, and the middle lane isn't...Still a disappointment, but nonetheless an improvement.

Atleast it's something. Us Americans really need to figure out how to drive properly on freeways, making passing lane 'campers' illegal is step in the right direction.

I have noticed that they don't repave the bridge decks on the freeways. Even if they repave the freeway with brand new asphalt, they leave the old concrete on the bridge decks? Why don't they change it too?

I have no idea, I've been wondering that myself. I think it has to do with the difficulty of dealing with expansion joints, approach slabs, and the effort required to make the pavement on the bridge deck completely level with its surroundings. I'll ask around and try to get an answer though.

The obvious answer is dead load. A new layer of paving is really heavy, and if the bridge wasn't designed for the extra weight, it shouldn't be installed.

If the bridge deck is in really bad shape, reconstruction is the only option, and it's expensive and disruptive.

Asphalt is also heavier than concrete if I'm correct.

How do they do it in Europe? I didn't see any concrete bridge decks. And they also repave the asphalt every time if I am not wrong

^^ In Germany, AFAIK, they rebuild bridges.

How do they do it in Europe? I didn't see any concrete bridge decks. And they also repave the asphalt every time if I am not wrong

Some bridges are designed to have an asphalt wearing course. When it gets raggedy, it's milled away and replaced.

Beware Seattle drivers!

Troopers pull over 223 passing lane 'campers' in King County

SEATTLE – Washington state troopers in King County pulled over 223 drivers last month who camped out in the freeway passing lane, breaking a law that not many drivers know about. Of those, 199 were let off with warnings.

The Washington State Patrol is putting higher emphasis on keeping slower traffic in the right lane and out of the left general purpose lane, which is the designated passing lane.

Many of those who were pulled over didn't know it was against the law, the state patrol said. Troopers told them to stay out of the left lane if traveling below freeway speeds and not to travel continuously in the left lane for no reason. Violators could be fined $124.

One of the concerns for enforcing the law is aggressive drivers who get frustrated at the slower traffic in front of them and, as a result, dart from lane to lane to get by other cars.

The HOV lane does not count as the so-called "fast lane." However, that is not the case on those freeways that have HOV lanes that are not enforced 24 hours a day, such as Interstate 405, Interstate 90 east of I-405 and State Route 167. Those HOV lanes are only enforced 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. At all other times, the HOV lane then becomes the designated passing lane.

"When HOV lanes are open to all traffic, they should be treated like a regular left-side freeway lane. Left-side freeway lanes are normally reserved for passing, so are only to be used to pass," WSP spokesman Dan Coon told KING 5 last month.

It seems to me that only the left lane is the legal passing lane, and the middle lane isn't...Still a disappointment, but nonetheless an improvement.

I wish they would have sent them to Guantanamo Bay. :cheers:

^^Don't mention Guantanamo on international forums: it makes non-Americans ornery. And some Americans understand why.

^^Don't mention Guantanamo on international forums: it makes non-Americans ornery. And some Americans understand why.


I'm a "non-american" and I can understand a joke :)

^^I know. That was meant to come out more light-hearted ("Psst - don't air our dirty laundry in front of strangers!") than it did. Sorry....

On the other hand, I've encountered plenty of really ornery-about-Americans people on international forums, so I've become a bit defensive.

I-5 South in downtown Seattle

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/Tc20t2p9bXI/AAAAAAAAOZg/KIco1XENTFU/IMG_20110513_121029.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/Tc20uN5veTI/AAAAAAAAOZo/iGKZrt0uoWI/IMG_20110513_121053.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/Tc20u5i6TWI/AAAAAAAAOZ4/oIbMkXt-qVg/IMG_20110513_121116.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/Tc20vdvGthI/AAAAAAAAOaA/z3IcOWDaLSM/IMG_20110513_121123.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/Tc20vt0xjyI/AAAAAAAAOaI/wUqt7r_ecnY/IMG_20110513_121128.jpg

I-5 North in Downtown Seattle

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcEWNspOdZI/AAAAAAAAHXg/yPnrVu8EV4s/DSC08739.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcEWNq4IvcI/AAAAAAAAHXk/kmqzsjvEXNQ/DSC08740.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcEWN2rU1vI/AAAAAAAAHXo/hV2g2e-Ntto/DSC08741.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_jof4glnm7XA/TcEWOUGIw-I/AAAAAAAAHXw/fYIgWTr9SIw/DSC08743.JPG

^^ This is the sector that will bear the burnt of traffic until the Alaska Way tunnel replacement is being built, right?

Clearly :|

:-P
Hey, I'm trying to improve my French. 90 percent of the people on Le Monde's forum are completely wacko.

Ahem.
Back on topic:

Passed through Maryland today and bought the Baltimore Sun. Front page story today is substantial proposed toll increases for the Baltimore tunnels and Key Bridge and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Don't have the paper in front of me now, but I do remember they're proposing $8.00 (but it's only collected eastbound) at the Bay Bridge. It's $2.50 now if memory serves.

Actually, I tend to favor the middle lane; less opportunity for conflict with entering and exiting traffic. Sorry....

I agree. On a 3-lane road I tend to stay in the middle (it's so much easier to go left or right if you need to pass). Or if there are lots of grandmas and rednecks around I just move left and stay there (giving way only to faster vehicles).

Actually, I was paying attention to my own driving today and I want to amend my statement :) :

In an urban area where there are lots of exits (intervals of two miles or less), I'll stay out of the right lane. But I don't camp in the middle lane and stubbornly stick ten miles below the speed limit; I'll do 70ish if the limit's 65.... I don't like passing on the right, and I don't like people who create the need to pass on the right. You're asking for trouble if someone passes you on the left and someone else passes you on the right and they both decide simultaneously to get back into the middle lane.

On a road where exits are farther apart (like 95 in northeastern Maryland, where the exits are 109, 100, 93, 89, 85, 80, 77, 74, 67 - which tells you the distances between them) I'm less inclined to avoid the right lane if the road's empty. If the road's busy, I still end up spending more time in the middle lane , but it's because if I didn't I'd be shifting between the right and the middle to pass.

Definitely, if someone's moving in the middle lane he should do at least speed limit speed to keep traffic moving. Right lane is mostly for those taking exits, slow-moving vehicles and "retards".

Drool...
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5606758257_7c8775453f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/countylemonade/5606758257/)
southbound I-15 at SR-201 C/D ramps (http://www.flickr.com/photos/countylemonade/5606758257/) by CountyLemonade (http://www.flickr.com/people/countylemonade/), on Flickr

:-P
Hey, I'm trying to improve my French. 90 percent of the people on Le Monde's forum are completely wacko.

Ahem.
Back on topic:

Passed through Maryland today and bought the Baltimore Sun. Front page story today is substantial proposed toll increases for the Baltimore tunnels and Key Bridge and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Don't have the paper in front of me now, but I do remember they're proposing $8.00 (but it's only collected eastbound) at the Bay Bridge. It's $2.50 now if memory serves.

Yeah, they're proposing hiking up a LOT of prices. By a lot. Also eliminated the decal system over the Susquehanna in favor of a flat, even higher rate.

^^What are the politics? Does the legislature or governor have the right to veto it (since the Sun called this a "proposal")? Are they likely to? This was also the top story in the early afternoon in the local news blocks on WTOP in Washington (the all-news station); WTOP seemed to be treating this as a foregone conclusion. They had a sound-bite of Maryland's Secretary of Transportation pointing out that maintenance these days costs more than building the various facilities did. She seemed to be behind the proposal. Can I assume the Secretary of Transportation would be an appointee of the governor and that he's therefore likely to go along with it?

Yeah, they're proposing hiking up a LOT of prices. By a lot. Also eliminated the decal system over the Susquehanna in favor of a flat, even higher rate.
The 'decal' system on the US 40 Susquehanna River bridge is like a European 'vignette', in place to allow unlimited crossings for the locals for, IIRC, $5/year. If they eliminate this discount, I would expect, for example, the Domino's Pizza store located right on the southwest end of that bridge to have to add a toll surcharge to all deliveries that would have to cross it.

^^What are the politics? Does the legislature or governor have the right to veto it (since the Sun called this a "proposal")? Are they likely to? This was also the top story in the early afternoon in the local news blocks on WTOP in Washington (the all-news station); WTOP seemed to be treating this as a foregone conclusion. They had a sound-bite of Maryland's Secretary of Transportation pointing out that maintenance these days costs more than building the various facilities did. She seemed to be behind the proposal. Can I assume the Secretary of Transportation would be an appointee of the governor and that he's therefore likely to go along with it?
The State of Maryland is pretty much in the deathgrip of a liberal wing of the Democratic Party. 'Nuff said. And yes, their policies are sending taxable private-sector economic activity fleeing to droves to other, less expensive states. It's not a pretty picture.

Contrast that with adjacent Delaware. They don't have a direct retail sales tax, rather a simple gross-receipts tax. I have heard many stories of Maryland essentially setting up 'customs' stops at the state line, Maryland 'revenuers' recording Maryland license plate numbers in parking lots of shopping centers in Delaware (and the local cops arresting the Maryland cops for trespassing while they're doing that!), Maryland sending harassing letters to their residents threatening severe penalties for not reporting what the state thinks that they bought in Delaware, arresting Delaware-based delivery drivers at the state line, etc.

Yes, I have no doubt that the ruling overlords in Maryland would be happy as can be to soak drivers transiting the state on I-95 for whatever they can get away with without raising the ire of the Feds for impeding interstate commerce. And look at a map - to avoid Maryland a driver would have to go all the way west to I-79 (that's directly south of Pittsburgh!).

:no:

Mike

No need to bring you political rants here IMO.

^^Very much agreed.

^^
Ok, I was just going over that article.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-toll-increases-20110512,0,2450166.story

Yep, the tolls would go up as described, and the US 40 Susquehanna River bridge would go from a 'commuter' rate of $10/year for 'stickers' to $36/year plus a $1.50/month E-ZPass fee (MUST use E-ZPass to receive the commuter discount), for a total of $54/year.

Mike

No need to bring you political rants here IMO.
Well, he asked "What are the politics?".

Mike

The 'decal' system on the US 40 Susquehanna River bridge is like a European 'vignette', in place to allow unlimited crossings for the locals for, IIRC, $5/year. If they eliminate this discount, I would expect, for example, the Domino's Pizza store located right on the southwest end of that bridge to have to add a toll surcharge to all deliveries that would have to cross it.


The State of Maryland is pretty much in the deathgrip of a liberal wing of the Democratic Party. 'Nuff said. And yes, their policies are sending taxable private-sector economic activity fleeing to droves to other, less expensive states. It's not a pretty picture.

Contrast that with adjacent Delaware. They don't have a direct retail sales tax, rather a simple gross-receipts tax. I have heard many stories of Maryland essentially setting up 'customs' stops at the state line, Maryland 'revenuers' recording Maryland license plate numbers in parking lots of shopping centers in Delaware (and the local cops arresting the Maryland cops for trespassing while they're doing that!), Maryland sending harassing letters to their residents threatening severe penalties for not reporting what the state thinks that they bought in Delaware, arresting Delaware-based delivery drivers at the state line, etc.

Yes, I have no doubt that the ruling overlords in Maryland would be happy as can be to soak drivers transiting the state on I-95 for whatever they can get away with without raising the ire of the Feds for impeding interstate commerce. And look at a map - to avoid Maryland a driver would have to go all the way west to I-79 (that's directly south of Pittsburgh!).

:no:

Mike

It doesn't help that the more conservative-leaning northeastern counties are getting raked for this; most of the money generated by these tolls is going to...the Baltimore and DC areas. Guess that's what we get for not voting for O'Malley.

Want to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington? Have fun, already there's three tolls.

Well, he asked "What are the politics?".

Mike

I meant, in an institutional sense: in the New York area (where I grew up), the Port Authority is an independent agency but anything it proposes needs to be signed off on by the governors of New York and New Jersey (and possibly the mayor of New York as well, I'm not sure), and proposed toll increases, PATH fare increases, whatever, are by no means assured of a rubber stamp. Which is not the same situation as if the, um, toll-proposing authority in Maryland is the state department of transportation and headed by a gubernatorial appointee.

THAT SAID, if we assume the need to spend more on the bridges and tunnels is genuine, what are the alternatives to toll increases: (1) making state taxpayers responsible for them (keeping tolls where they are now or lifting them altogether; (2) making federal taxpayers responsible for them (which I'd guess would require lifting the tolls); (3) privatizing them? I can't see the other major party going for (1) or (2) and I don't think (3) guarantees lower tolls. I for one don't mind an appropriate level of taxation and spending if the alternative is this country sinking into third-world status.

^^ This is the sector that will bear the burnt of traffic until the Alaska Way tunnel replacement is being built, right?

Yes that is correct. Northbound I-5 just south of Downtown was also retrofitted with Active Traffic Management to help with the traffic. However, SR 99 will still remain open, but it's reduced to 2x1. There are some temporary roadways and slip roads.


It doesn't help that the more conservative-leaning northeastern counties are getting raked for this; most of the money generated by these tolls is going to...the Baltimore and DC areas. Guess that's what we get for not voting for O'Malley.

Want to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington? Have fun, already there's three tolls.

All American politicians are reluctant to raise the gas tax. Doesn't matter if you're conservative or liberal. American politicians lack the courage to invest in the country, and the American public lack the foresight and long-term intelligence to vote for politicians who do. There's no way around it. Whoever proposes a tax will lose the next election. It's just a fact of living in this country. And that's why we're going for tolls now, because it's gotten to a point where we don't have public or political support to raise taxes, and existing revenues are dwindling.

We're going the way of the Romans. I'm planning on studying elsewhere as soon as possible and moving out.

I-85 in North Carolina, May 2011
http://i55.tinypic.com/i583zn.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/142ey4h.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/21jrpz6.jpg

Louisiana is raising the speed limit on limited portions of I-49 to 75mph. Hopefully the trend moves eastward throughout the South.

^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.

This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map (http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/download/yadkin_publichearingmap.pdf) and Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.723521,-80.386577&spn=0.009111,0.013797&t=h&z=16) show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.

EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it is pre-Interstate!

North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built.

Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.69211,-80.402436&spn=0,0.000862&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=35.69211,-80.402436&panoid=5951hDnxt8xjqtqJ3MunMA&cbp=12,159.52,,0,2.24). I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.

This is probably something you will never see anywhere else (except for maybe the Lake Ponchartrain Causeway and the Chesapeake Bridge and Tunnel). I-10 along with US 90 and I-55 in Louisiana has several bridges that are more than 15 miles long.

9dfT5wkvJ5M
The Atchafalaya Swamp Freeway (I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge).

^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.

This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map (http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/download/yadkin_publichearingmap.pdf) and Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.723521,-80.386577&spn=0.009111,0.013797&t=h&z=16) show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.

EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it is pre-Interstate!

North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built.

Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.69211,-80.402436&spn=0,0.000862&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=35.69211,-80.402436&panoid=5951hDnxt8xjqtqJ3MunMA&cbp=12,159.52,,0,2.24). I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.

Yeah, I hate that Yadkin River bridge. I was happy to see that they were replacing it.

Also, I never understood North Carolina's still-current fascination with green Interstates. Especially now that most of them are co-signed with US routes (or, in the case of Greensboro, blue Interstates).

You mean Business Routes?

You mean Business Routes?

Yeah, exactly. I saw "Green 85" as a nickname a few years ago and decided to run with it.

Yeah, I hate that Yadkin River bridge. I was happy to see that they were replacing it.

Also, I never understood North Carolina's still-current fascination with green Interstates. Especially now that most of them are co-signed with US routes (or, in the case of Greensboro, blue Interstates).

What is a blue Interstate?!

Also, business Interstates are, for some reason, far rarer in the Northeast than they are in the rest of the country. I know of only one in Pennsylvania (business 83 through York) and can't think of any others from Maryland north through New England.

^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.

This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map (http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/download/yadkin_publichearingmap.pdf) and Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.723521,-80.386577&spn=0.009111,0.013797&t=h&z=16) show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.

EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it is pre-Interstate!

North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built.

Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.69211,-80.402436&spn=0,0.000862&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=35.69211,-80.402436&panoid=5951hDnxt8xjqtqJ3MunMA&cbp=12,159.52,,0,2.24). I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.

Here is the news story I saw earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOl1kPJLSbM&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the picture flyinfishjoe

I-85 in North Carolina, May 2011
http://i55.tinypic.com/i583zn.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/5701507065_754137f160_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/interchangeableparts/5701507065/)
May 8 2011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/interchangeableparts/5701507065/) by interchangeableparts (http://www.flickr.com/people/interchangeableparts/), on Flickr

Some pix of I-40 in Eastern California:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/40/I40_CA_cl_120_east_w_lg.jpg

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/40/I40_CA_dv_143_sign_east_lg.jpg

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/40/I40_CA_dv_145_east_lg.jpg

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/40/index.html

I was staying in Vancouver Canada for a year and drove right down to Vegas. Took this Video in HD on my way back up. Was really impressed with the highway around Seattle.



2EvKsr4HmZs

Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Highway-Sell-Off-NY-PA-then-NJ-prep-sales-tolls.html)


Wednesday, May 18, 2011
Highway Sell-Off: PA plan would let tolls on 95, Blue Route, 422

The campaign to turn America's highways back to private ownership - with electronic tollbooths that will silently tap your bank account as you drive - is accelerating here in the Northeast.

"New York and Connecticut are rolling along with bills and hearings," Frank Rapoport, partner at McKenna Long & Aldridge, one of the law firms pushing hardest for "public-private partnership" sales of state assets to private interests, tells me. "In Pennsylvania, look for a House (of Representatives) bill to hit the Capitol floor on June 6 and move on to passage."

Previous proposals, including House bills sponsored by the current Transportation Committee head, Rep. Richard Geist, R-Altoona, have failed three times. "The bill was reported out of our committee 21-3 March 3" but has since been hung up over prevailing-wage issues, House legislative analyst Greg Grasa told me. Federal contracting rules typically require union-scale wages; but Republicans want them out in case federal law changes, while Democrats want them in for the same reason. Still, Grasa calls the working bill "a solid, flexible broad-based piece of legislation" that's already been vetted by state transportation officials. "We're very optimistic."

What about New Jersey, where ex-Gov. Jon Corzine's efforts to sell the Turnpike and the Atlantic City Expressway came to grief a few years back?

Gov. Christie's "folks want a bit of education on P3s first," Rapoport told me. To help that effort along, would-be private operators will gather at an event billed as "Meet the Players" at the Trenton Marriott on June 7, including top executives from Veolia Energy, the Union Labor Life Insurance Co., AECOM, Skanska USA, Mott McDonald, Halcrow Inc., along with consultants like Rapoport and Richard Mroz.

Rapoport and his colleauges are handing around lists of key government contacts and motivated contractors, along with lists of the roads most likely to get sold around New York, Pittsburgh and other cities. Their favorite projects targeted for sales and tolls in the Philadelphia area include:

US 422 (from King of Prussia west toward Reading)
I-95 (at the Delaware River and in Philadelphia)
I-476 (Blue Route through Delaware and Montgomery Counties)

Geist's bill won't automatically privatize those roads. It sets up a seven-member committee to review proposals. The Governor and his Transportation and Budget secretaries, House and Senate Democrats and Republicans each name a member. In the House bill each member has to be a construction engiener, lawyer or other expert, not a politician or staffer. But a Senate version (S-344) sponsored by Transportation Committee boss John Rafferty, who represents Pottstown and Coatesville, would allow politicos.

This Video follows the 413 Bus route from Downtown Seattle to the Northern Suburbs..along I-5...

EKu1vwvnEIk

Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Highway-Sell-Off-NY-PA-then-NJ-prep-sales-tolls.html)

Idk how this would work , and that would mean we wouldn't have anyway to pay for our Road and Rail Expansions if private were to run these tolls....:ohno:

A complete tour of the Tom Moreland Interchange, a.k.a. Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta, GA

EUBIdJDoDI4

^^
I was stuck stopped right under the lowest part of that interchange on anti-clockwise bound I-285 for over an hour due to a traffic accident ahead of me during my 2004 roadtrip. Lots of time to get out, stretch, socialize with the neighbors, listen to tunes on the iPod, etc.

:nuts:

Mike

I-275 into downtown Tampa FL

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5673267797_ff410e3b20_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cv_dusty/5673267797/)
Downtown Tampa (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cv_dusty/5673267797/) by Dusty_73 (http://www.flickr.com/people/cv_dusty/), on Flickr

I-10 into Mobile Alabama

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5266/5584004576_032218ee2c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cv_dusty/5584004576/)
Mobile, Alabama from I-10 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cv_dusty/5584004576/) by Dusty_73 (http://www.flickr.com/people/cv_dusty/), on Flickr

It doesn't help that the more conservative-leaning northeastern counties are getting raked for this; most of the money generated by these tolls is going to...the Baltimore and DC areas. Guess that's what we get for not voting for O'Malley.

Want to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington? Have fun, already there's three tolls.

Baltimore and the DC suburbs are the wealthiest, most important, and congested parts of the state. Thus, the bulk of transportation funds should go there.

If someone doesn't want to pay tolls to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington, they can take U.S. 40.

Baltimore and the DC suburbs are the wealthiest, most important, and congested parts of the state. Thus, the bulk of transportation funds should go there.

If someone doesn't want to pay tolls to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington, they can take U.S. 40.
You still have to pay a (IIRC) $5 toll to cross the Susquehanna River on US 40.

The farthest downstream *FREE* crossing of that river is US 1 (it crosses the top of Conowingo Dam), located about 15-20 minutes inland from I-95.

Mike

Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Highway-Sell-Off-NY-PA-then-NJ-prep-sales-tolls.html)

Sigh.
Can the state sell a road the Feds paid for 90 percent of?

You still have to pay a (IIRC) $5 toll to cross the Susquehanna River on US 40.

The farthest downstream *FREE* crossing of that river is US 1 (it crosses the top of Conowingo Dam), located about 15-20 minutes inland from I-95.

Mike

Both 95 and 40 cost $5.00 (for now...) north/eastbound and are free the other way. US 1 is free both ways but, yes, it's not the fastest route. And you only pay three tolls between Baltimore and Wilmington - at least downtown to downtown - if you choose, coming out of downtown Baltimore, to go south of the harbor and then through the Fort McHenry Tunnel, rather than just going through Fells Point/Canton or East Baltimore (the neighborhoods east of downtown and north of the harbor) to 95 or 40.

Just came back from another US road trip, 3600 miles across the nine states.
Started and finished in Dallas so first let's post some pictures from Dallas - Fort Worth metroplex.
Sorry for the quality of some of them, I travel alone and I'm not so good at driving and shooting pictures at the same time. ;)

High Five, intersection of I-635 and US Hwy 75
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HWEl600llxw/Td2IeYFbNpI/AAAAAAAAAWk/WoifKFvMa-o/s800/DSC05946%252520-%252520Copy.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5qWn4wk-kYw/Td2IfBsjFyI/AAAAAAAAAWo/I_iIp9AHWtM/s800/DSC05944%252520-%252520Copy.JPG

I-35E driving south to Dallas
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wa4mB4JgWsY/Td2Wg4z6b0I/AAAAAAAAAgM/9kzCQNHwRLQ/s800/DSC07811.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-435P7cJQWAA/Td2Wi8OqZfI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/6CEolh2ortc/s800/DSC07810.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xIUMyKvvjss/Td2WnX3mqyI/AAAAAAAAAgU/pDyo_ryHwV0/s800/DSC07813.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SPPsHDiiY1g/Td2WwHw26NI/AAAAAAAAAgY/zflR6S4DxBo/s800/DSC07933.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bTfmd2nWA8s/Td2Ww92zYnI/AAAAAAAAAgc/ZvbkVHq_T8o/s800/DSC07932.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bsURKO7xGR0/Td2W0e0kAvI/AAAAAAAAAgg/2qzInGHdYPw/s800/DSC07934.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CVG-CBm4KXs/Td2W-cHiS_I/AAAAAAAAAgk/95VT-0Li4NI/s800/DSC07935.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-54HOa3NnjHM/Td2W_6GQd7I/AAAAAAAAAgo/YvcDuNO33oA/s800/DSC07936.JPG

I-35E going right next to downtown Dallas
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-E5jbcThrt-4/Td2XMAuCx8I/AAAAAAAAAgw/5a5XEfBCVPw/s800/DSC07940.JPG

Nawierzchni srednia bo cale okolice tego wezla sa w przebudowie, budowany jest nowy most przez Trinity river, zaprojektowany przez Caltrave.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gNetvNpJ8ZQ/Td2XaJL2rOI/AAAAAAAAAg8/1JV0j-UYQXM/s800/DSC07943.JPG

Zolte pasy na bramownicach oznaczja ze jedzie sie pasem wyjzedzajacym z danej drogi. Tutaj widac ze 4 lewe pasy wyjezdzaja z I-35E
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_Yr4H648XSs/Td2XheAxdzI/AAAAAAAAAhA/fwdMFebhi7Y/s800/DSC07944.JPG

Here is I-30 going from Dallas to Fort Worth
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YSzuWFAExaQ/Td2XibRieiI/AAAAAAAAAhE/egjoY6x-Y40/s800/DSC07945.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g_Tf8_hcsIQ/Td2XwCQhcpI/AAAAAAAAAhM/q0ZszAAAwPk/s800/DSC07949.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RU4kzpd102w/Td2XxvZqOGI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/cSu9nrEDQrg/s800/DSC07947.JPG

Junction of I-30 and I-820
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tcYupHfoXQI/Td2XyEeni2I/AAAAAAAAAhU/H9QyrHox3uc/s800/DSC07950.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-irJnA1q5N3o/Td2X-eUiIFI/AAAAAAAAAhY/ag6Z-snIr9I/s800/DSC07952.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-S5NcSEXFnRg/Td2X_Gjyf3I/AAAAAAAAAhc/d6ZLHkTAUA8/s800/DSC07953.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xmvOfKjcZnk/Td2YCnJ26uI/AAAAAAAAAhg/RC1Kqqk_YNU/s800/DSC07951.JPG

Getting closer to the Fort Worth downtown
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FcoUPvSCNlI/Td2YNGZ_TMI/AAAAAAAAAhk/y19sjVYcx8A/s800/DSC07956.JPG

Junction I-30 and I-35W, time to leave the freeway
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YXtIMnC8q5Q/Td2YNbj0y8I/AAAAAAAAAho/Xym-uoiDebI/s800/DSC07957.JPG

Exit sort of in the middle, going right underneath the whole junction.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TKjsehBKXr8/Td2YOWT-0UI/AAAAAAAAAhs/i3oPj6tMz0c/s800/DSC07958.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-T2yPV6lZTz4/Td2Ybzz72rI/AAAAAAAAAhw/pj-NnL4g__c/s800/DSC07960.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--gQELh6RaRw/Td2YcHOEldI/AAAAAAAAAh0/2UbbEy8QQoU/s800/DSC07959.JPG

View from the surface streets
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YBn6RJnwdVk/Td2YchiaY2I/AAAAAAAAAh4/NhALE7RQ2PI/s800/DSC07962.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8LDzMFgpC04/Td2YqsgtluI/AAAAAAAAAh8/NPknTC3JoHY/s800/DSC07964.JPG

Poetry in concrete ;)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rXZvg0TPycQ/Td2YtViv0QI/AAAAAAAAAiA/8q06_v4V9Ok/s800/DSC07966.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LDC63DM6zD8/Td2Y980luGI/AAAAAAAAAiM/Dj6mJh-3CH8/s800/DSC07969.JPG

Getting back onto I-30
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3sG3E4JHZqA/Td2ZMBoLTMI/AAAAAAAAAiY/dZ3HkUY4bBE/s800/DSC07984.JPG

I-70 going west right next to Kansas City downtown
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r1QORIRN-og/Td2MBPuzmYI/AAAAAAAAAZU/0GG4Ptv956Q/s800/DSC06325.JPG

Junction of I-670 and I-35. Part of inner loop of KC, right south of downtown.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-D-zkzSbDTrk/Td2MHearUxI/AAAAAAAAAZc/Ed4b-o7PSNw/s800/DSC06347.JPG

I-70 westbound again
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8HJlgtZQhK0/Td2MPYWdpfI/AAAAAAAAAZg/fyIi53bjEn0/s800/DSC06358.JPG

and eastbound
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qIOGeCcF2e4/Td2MROfF9xI/AAAAAAAAAZk/zpM0Ui83rRc/s800/DSC06359.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KhPFZToZwPk/Td2MYxODMDI/AAAAAAAAAZo/zOh9ubo7Gec/s800/DSC06361.JPG

View from rest area in the median of I-70 west of Topeka
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vuDqlWCREZI/Td2MfD9GXKI/AAAAAAAAAZs/qSY8Nes8Syc/s800/DSC06410.JPG

I-70
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2SgdiMdByo0/Td2Mpmf2nUI/AAAAAAAAAZ0/KbFLcOnbpyc/s800/DSC06414.JPG

I-70
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0tq_oa4AltE/Td2MuMfkyEI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/EAg032pUirk/s800/DSC06415.JPG

I-30 going from Dallas to Little Rock
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gdgE_MquKwY/Td2JaB5LE-I/AAAAAAAAAXU/sSK4ekLOt8E/s800/DSC05974%252520-%252520Copy.JPG

I-30, I like vegetation separating eastbound and westbound traffic
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-geuxO8K8X4M/Td2JNhKncOI/AAAAAAAAAXM/HOxeRj5mMCU/s800/DSC05964.JPG

Incredible. Simply incredible. Thanks for the tour. Hopefully there are more pics to come?

Incredible. Simply incredible. Thanks for the tour. Hopefully there are more pics to come?

There will be more but not tonight, time to go to sleep ;)

I-30, I like vegetation separating eastbound and westbound traffic
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-geuxO8K8X4M/Td2JNhKncOI/AAAAAAAAAXM/HOxeRj5mMCU/s800/DSC05964.JPG

Nice pictures, I love trees separating the median as well...especially at night.

It's a strange experience not to see traffic in the other direction. Particularly when it lasts for 180 km, as I experienced in Mexico. Thankfully the yellow line at the left is a good instrument to clarify that you do not need to worry about two-way traffic.

I-40 in New Mexico going towards Texas. You can see rumble strips
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-raJmyy_TADc/Td2SPX2Eo9I/AAAAAAAAAdE/_rSopYcRmig/s800/DSC07273.JPG

At least decent speed limit, 75 mph means it is ok to do 85mph ;)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GuK0FSl8LZ4/Td2StpQljdI/AAAAAAAAAdM/Mt-9uOineCI/s800/DSC07277.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-amic-5l4lH0/Td2St59KB0I/AAAAAAAAAdQ/W9v_Xqa6q1U/s800/DSC07285.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OdkyoheuUTE/Td2SubcoNwI/AAAAAAAAAdU/tZhLu7zLGPw/s800/DSC07278.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mk9D8vt9Z_o/Td2S8iRr35I/AAAAAAAAAdY/ZkTPXFOe8m8/s800/DSC07288.JPG

Gas prices
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gA8xhnnAfhk/Td2S87Vk2bI/AAAAAAAAAdc/RQGsbJbXHik/s800/DSC07293.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5He8vJxe8Rc/Td2S9CeHkYI/AAAAAAAAAdg/cmhE5rS_3oY/s800/DSC07292.JPG

Directions
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nDJQ733tsUc/Td2TPvdzVkI/AAAAAAAAAdk/5aNEnBmQTsg/s800/DSC07300.JPG

Surface looks bad from the viaduct but it is ok to drive. It is nicely patched with tar.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RvAb7yTqL94/Td2TQJUXBEI/AAAAAAAAAdo/kc165sJNM5U/s800/DSC07305.JPG

Wide median, I really mean wide ;)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1yyO0yBQF6I/Td2ThDrIbLI/AAAAAAAAAd4/l5gdhw_t20U/s800/DSC07312.JPG

Traffic on I-40 was not too busy but more so than on some other stretches of interstate I drove in the past (like I-70 or I-90)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Te6SephLxF0/Td2Tvfk0WiI/AAAAAAAAAd8/nh0zcSs5Qzo/s800/DSC07314.JPG

Ladies bikers, some ride about cancer awareness, met them at the gas station.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CEBA1Ephk70/Td2TwerARHI/AAAAAAAAAeA/iFdp9KnvGUI/s800/DSC07319.JPG

Leaving new Mexico
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H2BA4M3X0S4/Td2TxaRvAiI/AAAAAAAAAeE/r6HHrhrmn5o/s800/DSC07341.JPG

Entering Texas
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-koui3mz3nsY/Td2T9-DiLjI/AAAAAAAAAeM/xlcQXlNvxHg/s800/DSC07343.JPG

View from the frontage road. I find blue signs informing about food, accommodation and gas, extremely useful.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VyaiIPWj7FY/Td2UF31ER_I/AAAAAAAAAeQ/Yz0CyPBumiA/s800/DSC07362.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dDxBxBf3e7U/Td2UIQH6xaI/AAAAAAAAAeU/HJ7u-S9Me6Q/s800/DSC07363.JPG

Road shields, real help with navigation.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6xLk3IezxIk/Td2UWL_YtLI/AAAAAAAAAeg/KJrjtI4EY7U/s800/DSC07444.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G9Lx0F3a8yI/Td2UbsQUc4I/AAAAAAAAAek/7wNMp7SwRSQ/s800/DSC07469.JPG

Oklahoma City
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-62aSx25yimU/Td2VkFEt6UI/AAAAAAAAAfY/e05xuRXlbIM/s800/DSC07784.JPG

I-35 going from Okalhoma City south to Dallas
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vfkFamqwZ5o/Td2V028izII/AAAAAAAAAfs/EiGN22XuJ-4/s800/DSC07787.JPG

Cut through Arbuckle Mountains (which are really hills)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_9TLIvGDGck/Td2V8f7UiaI/AAAAAAAAAfw/ZukPY_zwUwI/s800/DSC07788.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A_6IofRNbtw/Td2WLdl6mbI/AAAAAAAAAf8/3QcygixP2tU/s800/DSC07791.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N4ot_qMGh0k/Td2WSRi9fwI/AAAAAAAAAgA/tctM_BH9bIE/s800/DSC07803.JPG

Ugh... the High-Five Interchange...
I know I'm about to get flayed for this, but while said interchange has phenomenal presence and scale, it's such a gaudy, awful looking thing: a baroque display for something defined by its function. *
Why not just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns, columns like Providence's I-95 / I-195 interchange or what's shown in some of geogregor's other pictures? Or something even more visually unified like Caltrans concrete fly-overs in California? The aesthetics of freeway structures are better defined by their form and airiness, not tawdry paint jobs and needless ornamentation.

* For the record, I will state that my favorite bridge is the rather ornate Manhattan Bridge. Overly adorned? Yes, but also a product of its time.

Road shields, real help with navigation.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6xLk3IezxIk/Td2UWL_YtLI/AAAAAAAAAeg/KJrjtI4EY7U/s800/DSC07444.JPG


Oklahoma City
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-62aSx25yimU/Td2VkFEt6UI/AAAAAAAAAfY/e05xuRXlbIM/s800/DSC07784.JPG


Cut through Arbuckle Mountains (which are really hills)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A_6IofRNbtw/Td2WLdl6mbI/AAAAAAAAAf8/3QcygixP2tU/s800/DSC07791.JPG



Good lord these pictures are beautiful....love the FM picture, also was wondering what the new Oklahoma state highway signs look like from the freeway....nice. Wide medians are part of what make Interstate highways great. Not all of them are wide but still love them...no headlights in your face.

Ugh... the High-Five Interchange...
I know I'm about to get flayed for this, but while said interchange has phenomenal presence and scale, it's such a gaudy, awful looking thing: a baroque display for something defined by its function. *
Why not just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns, columns like Providence's I-95 / I-195 interchange or what's shown in some of geogregor's other pictures? Or something even more visually unified like Caltrans concrete fly-overs in California? The aesthetics of freeway structures are better defined by their form and airiness, not tawdry paint jobs and needless ornamentation.

* For the record, I will state that my favorite bridge is the rather ornate Manhattan Bridge. Overly adorned? Yes, but also a product of its time.

Come to Vancouver BC for just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns thats all we have. The bare minimum. That same design of highways causes them to show their age quite quickly, where as the high 5 interchange seems to have aged much nicer. Its got incredible attention to detail and some of us can appreciate that. I personally love it. Its so much more visually appealing than what you described above.

In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.

In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.

Arguably so, but at least they're making an effort. I wouldn't want every major interchange to be like the High Five, but there's something to be said for variety.

Here in Georgia, there's been a trend away from aesthetics in the design of major interchanges. The sweeping box girders of Spaghetti Junction are a relic-- now crappy-looking AASHTO girders are the rule. :(

Street-level detailing has improved, though.

Now, to sort through geogregor's epic set of pics :banana: :

Sequential signage: I like it in principle, but I don't think that posting a sign over the left lanes that tells motorists that there's an exit on the right 1/4 mile away is a very good plan. IMO, sequential signage should mention the next two or three exits that haven't yet appeared on the regular signage.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KhPFZToZwPk/Td2MYxODMDI/AAAAAAAAAZo/zOh9ubo7Gec/s800/DSC06361.JPG

Speaking of sequential signage, I've never seen a sequential sign on a ramp, like this. IMO, it's a very good idea. :)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--gQELh6RaRw/Td2YcHOEldI/AAAAAAAAAh0/2UbbEy8QQoU/s800/DSC07959.JPG

As a Georgian, I'm insanely jealous of Texas' excellent signage and their rapid move toward Clearview. The improvement in readability is very striking.


This huge cut strikes me as very extravagant, unless... perhaps the rock removed here was needed for subbase elsewhere along the route:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A_6IofRNbtw/Td2WLdl6mbI/AAAAAAAAAf8/3QcygixP2tU/s800/DSC07791.JPG

AFAIK, Texas is the only state that puts crappy W-beam guardrails on its Interstate bridges, like Bulgaria :ohno: :
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-koui3mz3nsY/Td2T9-DiLjI/AAAAAAAAAeM/xlcQXlNvxHg/s800/DSC07343.JPG

I was just wondering: Which is the highway with the densest traffic in the US?

Thanks in advance :)

I-405 near Seal Beach, California (near Long Beach & Los Angeles) 390 000 vehicles per day.

This is not the busiest in the world.

This huge cut strikes me as very extravagant, unless... perhaps the rock removed here was needed for subbase elsewhere along the route:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A_6IofRNbtw/Td2WLdl6mbI/AAAAAAAAAf8/3QcygixP2tU/s800/DSC07791.JPG
That highway would almost certainly been tunneled instead of cut through that hill had that been in Europe.

Mike

Arguably so, but at least they're making an effort.
Oh, Dallas is trying, but to do what? One need not do much to improve the aesthetics a - make the columns hexagonal, make the hammerhead column-top more visually organic to its pillar, make all of the girders trapezoidal steel-boxes, etc - because function will always define structures like these. Why make a garish, superficial display when modifying elements of the engineering can deliver a visually pleasing impact?
The fly-overs between I-95 / I-195 in Providence or between I-10 / Sam Houston Tollway in Houston look great even though they have less. Or, as I mentioned before, if you prefer the all-concrete approach, look at some of what's been built in California (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sparciii/1862062935/sizes/l/in/photostream/). (not mine)

In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.
Haha! I didn't want to the be the one to say it!

Anyway, that's the last I'll make mention of this. Carry on, lads!

That highway would almost certainly been tunneled instead of cut through that hill had that been in Europe.

Mike

There are motorways like that in Europe too

There are motorways like that in Europe too

Tunnel/Cut-off approaches vary by country.

In Germany, they build most highways with cut-offs instead of tunnels. Only more recent highways have tunnels.

In Italy, tunneling has become a national fever in the late 1960s. I don't know the exact number of structures, but 5,4% of total extension of highways is underground.

France has some tunnels, but relies mostly on S-shaped mountains traverse design.

In US, geology and cheap land costs brought cut-offs as the preferred method of construction. There are not many tunnels around, not even in the Rockies. I remembered when I relocated to Laramie for a while and the only "nearby" (e.g., 300mi radius) highway tunnels would be 2 short ones in Green River, WY and the Einsenhower Tunnel on I-70 west of Denver. And that was it.

Personally, I think cut-offs make beautiful road scenery. I heard or read of a massive cut-off in I-40, the highest cut-off in all Interstate System, but I don't remember where exactly.

Tunnel/Cut-off approaches vary by country.

In Germany, they build most highways with cut-offs instead of tunnels. Only more recent highways have tunnels.

In Italy, tunneling has become a national fever in the late 1960s. I don't know the exact number of structures, but 5,4% of total extension of highways is underground.

France has some tunnels, but relies mostly on S-shaped mountains traverse design.

In US, geology and cheap land costs brought cut-offs as the preferred method of construction. There are not many tunnels around, not even in the Rockies. I remembered when I relocated to Laramie for a while and the only "nearby" (e.g., 300mi radius) highway tunnels would be 2 short ones in Green River, WY and the Einsenhower Tunnel on I-70 west of Denver. And that was it.

Personally, I think cut-offs make beautiful road scenery. I heard or read of a massive cut-off in I-40, the highest cut-off in all Interstate System, but I don't remember where exactly.
Right now I believe that the deepest cut on the I-system is that one that bypassed the tunnel on the West Virginia Turnpike (I-64/77).

Mike

i prefer tunnels personally. here in the bay area we have a few: caldecott, waldo, park presidio, and the presidio parkway under construction. coincidentally none are interstates.

caltrans recently widened a 5 mile section of interstate 80 in contra costa county, creating a continuous eastbound hov lane from the bay bridge to the carquinez bridge. here is the carquinez bridge, showing a large cut-off:
http://www.mtc.ca.gov/images/5-24-11_aerial.jpg
Barrie Rokeach: http://www.mtc.ca.gov/images/5-24-11_aerial.jpg

^^
Me sees freeway stub end as well.

In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.

Yet our highways are still much better looking than yours along with having much better roadway quality. :cheers:

Here is a good one of Houston at night. Video shows the recently expanded Katy Freeway (I-10), Beltway 8, Westpark Tollway (first all electronic tollway in the nation), and then US 59 (future Interstate 69):

WgsdkxKLrKU

^^
Me sees freeway stub end as well.
Checking the aerial images of that area, it looks to me to be a designed local bridge approach access, there is no logical place for a spur freeway to go in that direction.

Mike

Yep, seems to be due to the bridge ramp, not some freeway stub.

When it comes to highways, Texas is king. :bow:

When it comes to highways, Texas is king. :bow:
Agreed!

Are interstates toll road?

Also, were interstates built entirely on govt funding or public private partnership?

Are interstates toll road?

For the most part, no. Only when you get to the northeast does that happen (certain areas around Boston for example).

Also, were interstates built entirely on govt funding or public private partnership?

From what I understand, all of it was federal funding for the initial build. Some parts added much later (after the late 90's) may be PPP in certain localities.

Are interstates toll road?

Also, were interstates built entirely on govt funding or public private partnership?

I'm going to answer these questions together: Congress passed the legislation authorizing the Interstate system in 1956. All Interstates built since then were built by the government (funding is 90% federal, 10% state, although the actual work of building and maintaining the roads falls to the states). Some Interstates are toll roads, but this only happens where the toll road already existed (or at least was being built) in 1956 - these roads have received Interstate numbers for the sake of, how to put it, a coherent numbering system.

Even toll roads, until say the 1980s, were built by government agencies; it's just that they're funded separately from the normal budget: they'd sell bonds to finance the construction of the road (rather than have taxpayers pay for it) and then the tolls would go to pay off the bonds. Some toll roads became free once the bonds were paid off, but usually they'll remain toll roads, with the tolls going to maintenance. Franchising the construction and operation of a toll road to private companies, like you'll see in France and Italy, was unknown here until the 1980s and is still rare.

For the most part, no. Only when you get to the northeast does that happen (certain areas around Boston for example).

Not just the Northeast - there are plenty of toll roads carrying Interstate designations as far west as Chicago (actually a bit farther west in Illinois), and some elsewhere (Kansas and Oklahoma, for example).

I-80 is even tolled as far west as San Francisco. However, regular toll Interstates are indeed farthest west in Kansas and Oklahoma.

I'm not really in favor of privatized toll roads. Their tolls tend to be very high (in France it's frequently over $ 0.25 per mile) and a regular tax gas is better for providing adequate funding, that is, when gas taxes are adequate.

I-80 is even tolled as far west as San Francisco. However, regular toll Interstates are indeed farthest west in Kansas and Oklahoma.

I'm not really in favor of privatized toll roads. Their tolls tend to be very high (in France it's frequently over $ 0.25 per mile) and a regular tax gas is better for providing adequate funding, that is, when gas taxes are adequate.

Politicians are too cowardly to raise the gas tax now. What's being considered for the US is a mileage based toll. So perhaps it's a similar system to France. I think it's less effective because it provides little incentive for people to switch to more fuel efficient cars.

I'm going to answer these questions together: Congress passed the legislation authorizing the Interstate system in 1956. All Interstates built since then were built by the government (funding is 90% federal, 10% state, although the actual work of building and maintaining the roads falls to the states). Some Interstates are toll roads, but this only happens where the toll road already existed (or at least was being built) in 1956 - these roads have received Interstate numbers for the sake of, how to put it, a coherent numbering system.

Even toll roads, until say the 1980s, were built by government agencies; it's just that they're funded separately from the normal budget: they'd sell bonds to finance the construction of the road (rather than have taxpayers pay for it) and then the tolls would go to pay off the bonds. Some toll roads became free once the bonds were paid off, but usually they'll remain toll roads, with the tolls going to maintenance. Franchising the construction and operation of a toll road to private companies, like you'll see in France and Italy, was unknown here until the 1980s and is still rare.
Not necessarily so - the most recent part of I-355 (Veterans Tollway, formerly the North-South Tollway) in Illinois (southwest Chicago suburbs) opened about four years ago. Financing was through toll revenue bonds.

Mike

^^I realized after my post - just hadn't been back until now - that I'd forgotten about 355 (actually, the entirety of it is well after 1956, isn't it?). Figured someone, probably of our Wisconsin cohort, would point it out.

But is it the exception that proves the rule?

I'm not really in favor of privatized toll roads. Their tolls tend to be very high (in France it's frequently over $ 0.25 per mile) and a regular tax gas is better for providing adequate funding, that is, when gas taxes are adequate.
You may be right in the US but what about Europe? Heavy trucks that burden roads much more than cars can take 1,000 kms or more without refilling the tank - they will buy gas where it is cheaper and not necesserily in the country where they make the roads bad.

^^ Most of the traffic does not drive a thousand kilometers every day. Frequent fuel tax evasions only happens in border areas. Even if you refuel in one state, and "wear" the roads in another one, this means it will happen the other way around as well. Of course people prefer to refuel in tax-friendly states (or countries) but this is a minor percentage of all traffic.

but this is a minor percentage of all traffic.
Not necesserily. E.g. Hungary has a heavy truck transit between SK (Rajka) - SLO (Hódos). Our roads in this way are almost completely destroyed by heavy trucks. And be sure that not any of them fills the tank in Hungary, although they make at least 60% of the traffic and at least 90% of road damages.
Without transit the widening of M0 southern section wold not be necessery.

Shall I continue? I know I shall not since it is off topic here but I think you understand me.

Although it's slightly off-topic, but the Hódos border crossing carries only 1,100 vehicles per day. How many of those would drive all the way to Slovakia? The total amount of this kind of transit traffic on the entire traffic of Hungary is negligible. Same for most of Europe, and also the United States. Much like Europe, taxes also vary by state in the U.S. It's cheaper to refuel in New Jersey than in New York for instance.

I-80 is even tolled as far west as San Francisco. However, regular toll Interstates are indeed farthest west in Kansas and Oklahoma....

We should perhaps note, for those unfamiliar with the roads and who are wondering what a "regular toll Interstate" is and what's tolled in San Francisco, that that toll on I-80 in San Francisco is on a longish (about 7 miles), pre-Interstate (1930s) bridge. :-) Kansas and Oklahoma, by contrast, have full-fledged intercity toll roads, for some reason.

Politicians are too cowardly to raise the gas tax now. What's being considered for the US is a mileage based toll. So perhaps it's a similar system to France. I think it's less effective because it provides little incentive for people to switch to more fuel efficient cars.

Where* is this mileage-based toll being considered? I'm not challenging you, just hadn't heard that and I'm fairly attentive to federal-level politics. (*By "where," I don't mean in what part of the country, but "in Congress, or...?")

Although it's slightly off-topic, but the Hódos border crossing carries only 1,100 vehicles per day. How many of those would drive all the way to Slovakia? The total amount of this kind of transit traffic on the entire traffic of Hungary is negligible. Same for most of Europe, and also the United States. Much like Europe, taxes also vary by state in the U.S. It's cheaper to refuel in New Jersey than in New York for instance.

And look at how bad our roads are....compared to our neighbors....this country needs to get serious about fixing our roads and bridges.... People wouldn't mind paying the high taxes in the Northeastern states if they went towards other things not just schools.....

Raising the federal gas tax by 10 or 20 cents can already create a huge extra flow of revenue to build and maintain the road network. Of course it is not necessary to bring it to European levels, where the gas tax alone generates more revenue than is spent on the road network. (not to mention other taxes). $ 0.20 per gallon, which is similar to € 0.035 per liter, is hardly noticeable for the general public, but with the fuel consumption in the U.S. being as high as it is, will generate substantial funding for the road network. And city dwellers driving in pickup trucks should be the last to complain about fuel prices.

I-80 is even tolled as far west as San Francisco. However, regular toll Interstates are indeed farthest west in Kansas and Oklahoma.

The thing that one needs to remember when trying to understand why things are the way they are is: in the absence of a funded federal superhighway program, states were very much left to their own devices as far as deciding whether, when, and how to upgrade their major intercity highways. Some states built turnpikes early on, some dualized existing highways or waited until they could afford to build free superhighways. Some did all three.

In the case of Kansas, until the Kansas Turnpike was opened in 1956, there was no direct highway between Wichita, the state's second largest city, and Topeka, the capital. Kansas is the west, where roads tend to run pretty much east-west or north-south, while Wichita-Topeka is very diagonal. To me, it's amazing that no such highway was even started until 1954, even as a two lane at-grade road.

In Oklahoma, the idea of a superhighway between the state's two largest cities and along the US 66 corridor was pretty much a no-brainer-- the only question was whether to build it sooner with tolls or later without. As it happened the Turner Turnpike was authorized in 1947 and opened by 1953. It's easy to forget that Texas built a turnpike between Dallas and Fort Worth, too, which would've been slightly further west than the Kansas and Turner Turnpikes, though it was long ago made free. But it wasn't even started until 1955.

Check out Origins of the Interstate (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/origin.htm). It's lengthy and rather mistitled-- in fact it gives a fascinating picture of road related issues virtually from the dawn of the automobile age and reminds us (or me, anyway) how herculean the task was of building a somewhat adequate road network in the vast, oft-sparsely-populated US during an era ridden by depression and war.

You have to remember our gas taxes are low but a lot of tax money is spent in subsidizing the oil industry to keep the prices low, that is why the prices are lower in the US.

Politicians are too cowardly to raise the gas tax now. What's being considered for the US is a mileage based toll. So perhaps it's a similar system to France. I think it's less effective because it provides little incentive for people to switch to more fuel efficient cars.

CT's governor proposed a 3 cent gas tax hike a couple weeks ago and it was so overwhelmingly hated that it was shelved and never put to vote.

Meanwhile, at that time, the price of gas was going up like 5 cents a day LOL. Same outcome with no benefit.

There will still be a 3 cent hike in diesel prices starting new month tho.

And look at how bad our roads are....compared to our neighbors....this country needs to get serious about fixing our roads and bridges.... People wouldn't mind paying the high taxes in the Northeastern states if they went towards other things not just schools.....
if by our neighbors you mean Canada, I don't think their roads are better

Montreal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-coDrnB6SYc

Ohio has good roads. :bowtie:

My Journey along Interstate 80 on a Interstate commuter Bus.

vTQEYC64_X0

if by our neighbors you mean Canada, I don't think their roads are better

Montreal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-coDrnB6SYc

With countries such as the US and Canada that have huge land areas and large highway networks compared with their populations, just maintaining the existing highways is a challenge.

Most European countries do not have this problem.

That was the main thing I didn't like about Canada besides their border patrol, the roads were not good, I still remember the 401 from Windsor past London, very crappy highway.

That was the main thing I didn't like about Canada besides their border patrol, the roads were not good, I still remember the 401 from Windsor past London, very crappy highway.

There Border Patrol , didn't beleave that my mom was really my mom...i guess they have racists everywhere. It happens everytime i enter Canada...they look at our family differently. As opposed to entering the US.... The 401 , QEW , and the Quebec Autoroutes were in joke condition , and very dangerous. At least Canadian drivers were nice.

Federal gas tax should be increased to ¢ 0.263 if it were to keep up with inflation since it was last raised in the 1990s.

I think it should be indexed to CPI, so that it would, at least, keep its purchasing power in line with inflation (though construction inflation is not exactly tied to the CPI).

====================================

As of tolls, there are cases of Interstates no longer tolled, particularly in Kentucky. Some other states decided to keep charging tolls as to avoid using general road funds to upkeep those roads.

Most of US turnpike tolls are not really expensive. Tri-Sate tollway, Pennsylvania Turnpike etc. are affordable. NJ Turnpike is not that affordable, but it has expansion planes and the amazing 4-carriageway sectors.

With countries such as the US and Canada that have huge land areas and large highway networks compared with their populations, just maintaining the existing highways is a challenge.

Most European countries do not have this problem.

Western Europe also has mild weather. It's not like the severe continental climate that predominates in America. That takes a big toll on the roads, especially in the snow belt.

Federal gas tax should be increased to ¢ 0.263 if it were to keep up with inflation since it was last raised in the 1990s.

I think it should be indexed to CPI, so that it would, at least, keep its purchasing power in line with inflation (though construction inflation is not exactly tied to the CPI).

====================================

As of tolls, there are cases of Interstates no longer tolled, particularly in Kentucky. Some other states decided to keep charging tolls as to avoid using general road funds to upkeep those roads.

Most of US turnpike tolls are not really expensive. Tri-Sate tollway, Pennsylvania Turnpike etc. are affordable. NJ Turnpike is not that affordable, but it has expansion planes and the amazing 4-carriageway sectors.

Part of I-65 in Kentucky was built as a toll road (and is now free); all other Interstates in Kentucky have always been free. You may be thinking of Kentucky's extensive "Parkway" system, which has gradually become toll-free, but doesn't include any Interstate mileage. The Connecticut Turnpike is the longest formerly-tolled-now-free Interstate I can think of.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike (its site tells me) will cost you $32.30 cash, $30.17 with E-ZPass, to cross the state from the Ohio to the New Jersey border, which is about 360 miles, so between 8.4 and 9 cents per mile. The New Jersey Turnpike will cost you $6.80 (E-ZPass "off-peak") or $9.05 (E-ZPass "peak," cash any time) from end to end, about 111 miles, which is about 8.2 or 6.2 cents per mile. Either one's still cheap compared to France, though....

if by our neighbors you mean Canada, I don't think their roads are better

Montreal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-coDrnB6SYc

Quebec has crappy roads but highways in Ontario are top-notch (at least in the Toronto area except the Gardiner). They do good maintainability and their highways don't look aged like they do across the border even though the weather is arguably worse. This is off-topic though...

The crappiest highways in the US that I've experienced has either to be in Pennsylvania, the NYC area, and NY Route 17 (which is being updated to be future I-86).

With countries such as the US and Canada that have huge land areas and large highway networks compared with their populations, just maintaining the existing highways is a challenge.

But highway maintenance is on the state level, not federal. I think out west, this is a valid excuse but around here, states are pretty small.

Since most European countries have more centralized highway systems and funding, perhaps the opposite is true. They have more to worry about.

Even with our gas tax (one of the highest in the nation), CT's highways are not that great. There's been good updates here and there, but it's obvious that there isn't enough money around for overall maintenance or future expansions so the state has no choice but to go back to tolls eventually in the future.

Quebec has crappy roads but highways in Ontario are top-notch (at least in the Toronto area except the Gardiner). They do good maintainability and their highways don't look aged like they do across the border even though the weather is arguably worse. This is off-topic though...

The crappiest highways in the US that I've experienced has either to be in Pennsylvania, the NYC area, and NY Route 17 (which is being updated to be future I-86).

Ontario is the only place in Canada with highways that are on par with USA highways. Its not even a question of funding either. Its all about location. The fact that Southern Ontario is so close to so many major US metro areas forced Southern Ontario to copy the US form of highway building, lest they look like a 3rd world country when Americans come and visit. Other areas of the country though, like Vancouver, don't have any nearby US metros to look to for guidance on highway building. Or they simply choose to purposely build inferior highways out here. Its like discovering a long lost civilization that hasn't had any contact with the outside world. Seeing what they have created while left to their own devices is sometimes disturbing and primitive. Comparing highways in WA state to BC is like night and day.

You have to remember our gas taxes are low but a lot of tax money is spent in subsidizing the oil industry to keep the prices low, that is why the prices are lower in the US.

Subsidizing the oil industry doesn't keep our prices low. We need to stop giving them tax cuts. I highly doubt Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell US, Chevron, etc., will raise gas prices if they don't get their tax cuts. With all the record profits they have been having, I SERIOUSLY doubt that.

Ontario is the only place in Canada with highways that are on par with USA highways. Its not even a question of funding either. Its all about location. The fact that Southern Ontario is so close to so many major US metro areas forced Southern Ontario to copy the US form of highway building, lest they look like a 3rd world country when Americans come and visit. Other areas of the country though, like Vancouver, don't have any nearby US metros to look to for guidance on highway building. Or they simply choose to purposely build inferior highways out here. Its like discovering a long lost civilization that hasn't had any contact with the outside world. Seeing what they have created while left to their own devices is sometimes disturbing and primitive. Comparing highways in WA state to BC is like night and day.

Did you write this post while under influence???

Subsidizing the oil industry doesn't keep our prices low. We need to stop giving them tax cuts. I highly doubt Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell US, Chevron, etc., will raise gas prices if they don't get their tax cuts. With all the record profits they have been having, I SERIOUSLY doubt that.

We need to stop subsidizing the Oil companies , the Airlines and then we need to get rid of some Rail regulations and watch the Private Passenger business boom again. Its not fair when the Govt subsidizes the Oil , and Air Industry's and then doesn't do the same for Rail or Sea. Its hurting our economy and prices don't seem to be any lower.

I-25/C 470 interchange Denver

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5629661479_6932c7587d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49394874@N08/5629661479/)
Interstate 25 and C 470 Interchange, Denver (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49394874@N08/5629661479/) by SkylineScenes (http://www.flickr.com/people/49394874@N08/), on Flickr

I-80 in Sacramento during the housing boom years.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3352993094_a97203668d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352993094/)
Interstate 80 in Sacramento (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352993094/) by brentj650 (http://www.flickr.com/people/brentj650/), on Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3597/3352156875_4a954bc22f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352156875/)
Interstate 80 in Citrus Heights (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352156875/) by brentj650 (http://www.flickr.com/people/brentj650/), on Flickr

I-5
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3556/3352167393_e172afb03d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352167393/)
Interstate 5 in Downtown Sacramento. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352167393/) by brentj650 (http://www.flickr.com/people/brentj650/), on Flickr

CA-99
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/3352988802_2eebe9f221_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352988802/)
CA 99 in South Sacramento (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352988802/) by brentj650 (http://www.flickr.com/people/brentj650/), on Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3467/3352165301_a0430b1a19_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352165301/)
CA 99 in South Sacramento (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentj650/3352165301/) by brentj650 (http://www.flickr.com/people/brentj650/), on Flickr

In April 2009 I was in the US. Now I searched my archive for some road pictures. Enjoy!

Maybe the best motorway pic I've ever caught. I-95 near Fort Lauderdale airport:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7jz7_oB3JfE/TfEtV2XAPwI/AAAAAAAAB0Y/MCSUqgsAs4s/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200246.jpg

Florida's Turnpike seen from I-595:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WRpYvnoSxmw/TfEth-mlkVI/AAAAAAAAB0g/bMFWVyEyDyY/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200682.jpg

I-95:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CyqFBaD9LZ4/TfEtjLCmhPI/AAAAAAAAB0o/nh7P8j88kk0/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200683.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jnjsG0aO-W0/TfEug0HdQHI/AAAAAAAAB18/zqK0HRWodgI/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200816.jpg

American dream. It's all about this. Cruising on I-95 in Florida:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JhxBHyLQe80/TfEuhXayGRI/AAAAAAAAB2E/RxDaHZhy7qQ/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200815.jpg

I-95 near Kennedy Space Center exit:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tH07Zg9cTqI/TfEugAsw5jI/AAAAAAAAB1s/wnTjn7-nttk/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200822.jpg

Now some pictures of Interstates in Illinois, around Chicago:

O'Hare airport:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aUjDuBO7PXI/TfEsJkC2I8I/AAAAAAAAByo/h5qEUXWQcMQ/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201391.jpg

I-90:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AKJ5sW_oVUM/TfEsKyOp18I/AAAAAAAAByw/-af3Sp_zG8I/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201392.jpg

One of the coolest interchanges. I-90 / I-94 / I-290 seen from the 99th floor of Sears Tower:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1_U_YXfJ9Bo/TfEtG8gC7vI/AAAAAAAABzE/5T3vkB9021o/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201742.jpg

I-90 and I-94:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rzmrMPJzuvQ/TfEtKi1bs7I/AAAAAAAABzY/xEUoX3I4ohc/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201780.jpg

I-294 and I-190:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zvOIs-hyu3U/TfEtOVrtg5I/AAAAAAAABzg/b-KKY5GJUmA/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201781.jpg

Nice sign!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PhXwk-Ha-PU/TfEtPrB1B8I/AAAAAAAABzo/-EtoCyEH0GU/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201837.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5CV3mmPCEoE/TfEtSqxdBjI/AAAAAAAAB0A/SyBAE8E6ZeY/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%252520%2525201841.jpg

Wow that sign that says "Hit worker 14 years jail" !!!
Makes you think while speeding, I guess...

Wow that sign that says "Hit worker 14 years jail" !!!
Makes you think while speeding, I guess...

There were a lot of signs like this in the Chicago area. I remember that there were some roadworks and every mile I could see this sign...

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.

I've seen this type of signs in Illinois.

I've seen this type of signs in Illinois.

Same in Colorado. They were posted all the way on I-25 widening works.

I always like seeing images of USA roads and other things taken by average people from overseas.

:yes:

I-95 near Kennedy Space Center exit:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tH07Zg9cTqI/TfEugAsw5jI/AAAAAAAAB1s/wnTjn7-nttk/s912/USA%2525202009%252520%2525200822.jpg
Am I not the only one who notices the strange, perhaps unsettling (to the employees, especially) wording on this sign....

:eek:

Also, I believe that most, if not all, USA states now charge double fines for traffic violations in construction zones and many spare no expenses in posting that fact.

Mike

Am I not the only one who notices the strange, perhaps unsettling (to the employees, especially) wording on this sign....

What's wrong with it? :dunno:

After taking this exit, you won't return to earth :)

After taking this exit, you won't return to earth :)

It seems that I've managed to return, although I was only about 1-2 miles away from the space shuttle launching facility and I've seen space shuttle Atlantis preparing for STS-125 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-125) mission.

It seems that I've managed to return, although I was only about 1-2 miles away from the space shuttle launching facility and I've seen space shuttle Atlantis preparing for STS-125 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-125) mission.

You returned, not the crew of the Columbia in 2003.

Let's have a discussion/debate:

Which do you prefer and why: Ramps with parallel acceleration/deceleration lanes, or tapered ramps?

I posted the same question on the German Autobahn thread and I would like to compare the discussion. Feel free to post in both threads.

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.
In Ohio they have 5 years jail + $10,000 fine or something. But it is "up to", probably just to scare people more than anything. I think it's the same in Indiana too.

Let's have a discussion/debate:

Which do you prefer and why: Ramps with parallel acceleration/deceleration lanes, or tapered ramps?

I posted the same question on the German Autobahn thread and I would like to compare the discussion. Feel free to post in both threads.

TAPERS! :banana:

Maybe a separate thread would be better than cluttering two existing ones, though.

With a poll, of course.

Tapers for exiting, parallel for entering. :D

:yes:

Tapers for exiting, parallel for entering. :D
This. ^^

Yep, me too. I bet 90% of the Dutch drivers don't like the merging taper, which are very common in the Netherlands.

What about parallel for exiting? I like that one better than a taper because it gets exiting traffic out of the way.

Plus the fact that if the ramp backs up, it won't affect the mainline as much.

it all depends on the overall length of the ramp about the backup situation.

I'm for parallel as well.

what's the difference between the two? Any pics?

Interesting video of I-74 through Peoria, Illinois. Much more interesting than I expected.

vGHhimSNngc

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.

Also in Texas, but "when workers are present" is added in small font underneath.

Let's have a discussion/debate:

Which do you prefer and why: Ramps with parallel acceleration/deceleration lanes, or tapered ramps?

I posted the same question on the German Autobahn thread and I would like to compare the discussion. Feel free to post in both threads.

Wasn't sure what you were talking about until I looked up this picture:

http://i54.tinypic.com/fjqmty.gif

Not sure which is better, I feel like parallel is better...I just wanna get rid of the people that try to enter a freeway at 35 miles per hour.

I've never seen a taper with just one lane in the Netherlands. It's always the left lane that tapers and the right lane has a regular merging distance of 1000 ft.

Wasn't sure what you were talking about until I looked up this picture:

And you're a certified road enthusiast, too. Surely normal people pay even less notice.

I found this, from Wisconsin, https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/static/standards/fdm/11-30.pdf :

"When designing new interchanges or reconstructing interchanges. Use parallel-type entrance ramps in rural or urban applications. Refer to Exhibits 10-69/70/71, pages 849-853, GDHS 2001 for more information.

"Taper-type entrance ramps have been used predominantly for interchange design in the past. However, studies [2] have shown that parallel entrance ramps are generally safer than tapered. With tapered entrance the driver
has less time and poorer angles in which to use side/rear-view mirrors to monitor surrounding traffic prior to merging. Taper-type entrance ramps can also cause confusion in mainline horizontal curve situations when the
driver cannot identify mainline alignment."

So there. I still prefer tapers, though. :banana:

At two-lane entrances, Georgia uses a taper that's painted like a parallel, and it works great. I mean really great: it's used (among many other places) at the most overloaded ramp terminal at Spaghetti Junction. While traffic backs up for capacity reasons almost every day, the ramp terminal, which reduces the ramp from two lanes to one at the merge point, functions even under LOS F conditions. Traffic may move at a snail's pace, but everyone makes the merge without undue difficulty.

Tapered is superior to parallel. I can't even count the number of times someone in front of me continues forward on a parallel entrance ramp thinking the lane won't end, then suddenly stopping because they can't merge properly.

Tapered ramps force drivers on the ramp to actually look at traffic on the main lanes before making the merge, and it also encourages drivers on the main lanes to move over to let people in when safe to do so.

Tapered ramps force drivers on the ramp to actually look at traffic on the main lanes before making the merge, and it also encourages drivers on the main lanes to move over to let people in when safe to do so.

Yeah, on a taper I can spot my gap ahead of time and swoop in on it like a bird of prey instead of meekly assuming my place in line and hoping that someone already on the freeway isn't too oblivious to my ever-worsening predicament to let me in. :lol:

Hey: I was looking at New Orleans for a particularly horrible two lane ramp terminal I remembered (it's gone now) when I found this candidate for screwiest interchange I've ever seen, at I-10 and Causeway Blvd (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=29.997537,-90.154957&spn=0.004897,0.006899&t=k&z=17). I found this on the project website (http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/causewayinterchange/):

http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/causewayinterchange/images/Project%20overview%20phases%20I%20and%20II%20smaller.jpg

The green is (apparently, mostly) new flyovers and the blue is new at-grade ramps. Look: This scheme introduces a left-side entrance to I-10 eastbound where none now exists! WTF? :ohno:

I-10 already has CD roads here-- the new loop ramp flyovers will eliminate any need for them on Causeway Blvd. The semidirect connection to I-10 eastbound will presumably divert a lot of traffic from the existing eastbound CD. Perhaps it'll be enough to do away with the current added lane where the CD joins I-10 so the new left-side entry can at least have its own lane instead of a forced merge.

There are two way to get from Causeway Blvd S to I-10 E in that schematic, unless I'm reading it wrong.

There are two way to get from Causeway Blvd S to I-10 E in that schematic, unless I'm reading it wrong.

Yes, and to I-10 west as well. Causeway Blvd is already elevated over Veterans Memorial Blvd (the street with the canal in the middle, to the north of I-10) and the new ramps will provide access to and from both the elevated Causeway Blvd mainline and the frontage roads.

EDIT: In case you didn't know, a bit further south along Causeway Blvd you'll find the US' only British-style three-level roundabout interchange (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=29.97444,-90.15677&spn=0,0.003449&z=18&layer=c&cbll=29.974444,-90.15677&panoid=NRpjAIhHzJTZGi36mFOjBQ&cbp=12,21.88,,0,9.8). Perhaps that road should be renamed "We'll Try Anything Once Blvd." :lol:

Topic, where are you? :ohno:

I-95 Providence

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4704635310_d7eb11d141_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blooallah/4704635310/)
Providence (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blooallah/4704635310/) by Blooallah (http://www.flickr.com/people/blooallah/), on Flickr

And you're a certified road enthusiast, too. Surely normal people pay even less notice.

I found this, from Wisconsin, https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/static/standards/fdm/11-30.pdf :

"When designing new interchanges or reconstructing interchanges. Use parallel-type entrance ramps in rural or urban applications. Refer to Exhibits 10-69/70/71, pages 849-853, GDHS 2001 for more information.

"Taper-type entrance ramps have been used predominantly for interchange design in the past. However, studies [2] have shown that parallel entrance ramps are generally safer than tapered. With tapered entrance the driver
has less time and poorer angles in which to use side/rear-view mirrors to monitor surrounding traffic prior to merging. Taper-type entrance ramps can also cause confusion in mainline horizontal curve situations when the
driver cannot identify mainline alignment."

So there. I still prefer tapers, though. :banana:

At two-lane entrances, Georgia uses a taper that's painted like a parallel, and it works great. I mean really great: it's used (among many other places) at the most overloaded ramp terminal at Spaghetti Junction. While traffic backs up for capacity reasons almost every day, the ramp terminal, which reduces the ramp from two lanes to one at the merge point, functions even under LOS F conditions. Traffic may move at a snail's pace, but everyone makes the merge without undue difficulty.

Thanks for the explanation....I noticed that on parallel entrance ramps sometimes arrows are painted showing the lane ending.

Parallel entrances have been the norm in Europe for a while now on motorways, although you can till get them on smaller roads and on old motorways.

Exits as well, although there are more tampered exits than entrances

EDIT:

The tampered entrance in that diagram is actually quite long. You have lots like that in the UK that are very very very long, while in sight of the speed of the traffic, often they have two lanes and one merges first, and a few hundred metres after, the other one merges

Tapered is superior to parallel. I can't even count the number of times someone in front of me continues forward on a parallel entrance ramp thinking the lane won't end, then suddenly stopping because they can't merge properly.

Tapered ramps force drivers on the ramp to actually look at traffic on the main lanes before making the merge, and it also encourages drivers on the main lanes to move over to let people in when safe to do so.
WisDOT just replaced several 'tapered' merges with very long parallel ones on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area. They are set apart from the mainline lanes with much shorter and more frequent lane stripes than the ones separating the mainline lanes. I like them because they allow drivers much more room to find a space in traffic to fit in.

Mike

I-76 Philadelphia

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5690850373_e45a7a340a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21603653@N05/5690850373/)
I-76 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21603653@N05/5690850373/) by hypersoar40 (http://www.flickr.com/people/21603653@N05/), on Flickr

^^

Nice bridge...

^^I live a couple of miles from that spot. That's a railroad bridge that must have been built in the 1860s or '70s. Amtrak's main East Coast passenger service crosses it.

Upon further research, I stand corrected: it's the bridge I thought it was, and the rail line itself is that old, but the bridge is not the original: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Railroad,_Connecting_Railway_Bridge
That's assuming anyone cares. :-)

Re the Providence photo upthread: I drove through there last week, but in the other direction.

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.

What I noticed is that whenever signs like these (and some "radar enforced" signs) are posted you are free to speed and do whatever you want because there are no cops to enforce anything, so they just put up threatening signs instead :ohno:

^^Oh, sure. (Although I saw plenty of state troopers in Massachusetts.)

On the other hand,though, think about it: how many people have two work-zone accidents? What are the odds? It's probably pretty hypothetical. But an accident's not like speeding; it's not up to a cop to decide to ignore it. The police show up, insurance papers are exchanged, and so on, so there will be whatever consequences the law provides for. So I'd take a sign like that seriously: If the law in your state says two accidents in work zones causes you to lose your license, I assume that means you really will. In the unlikely and really unlucky event it happens to you.

Tapered is superior to parallel. I can't even count the number of times someone in front of me continues forward on a parallel entrance ramp thinking the lane won't end, then suddenly stopping because they can't merge properly.

Tapered ramps force drivers on the ramp to actually look at traffic on the main lanes before making the merge, and it also encourages drivers on the main lanes to move over to let people in when safe to do so.

Tapers are bad in heavy areas. There's a taper instead of a parallel where DE 141 enters onto I-295 northbound here in Delaware. It's two lanes of I-295, basically heading from DC to New York City, so it's obviously a busy route. There's never really any space and you can't move over a lane because there's a ton of tractor trailers, buses, etc in both lanes. So the person getting onto I-295 has to thread the needle and find a spot well beforehand and hope that no one closes the spot up when you reach the taper point.

I guess I'm getting a little too off-topic, but one sign that aggravates me is "Fines doubled for speeding". How is this not double punishment? Is there a fine for not speeding or something?

^^ don't speed, then you don't have to worry about it

^^ don't speed, then you don't have to worry about it

Haha....yeah right. Speeding makes roads more fun. :cheers:

I guess I'm getting a little too off-topic, but one sign that aggravates me is "Fines doubled for speeding". How is this not double punishment? Is there a fine for not speeding or something?

How about a sign "fines halve outside work zones" ? :)

Interstate 95 in the morning

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5239/5840531243_3587df70dc_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840531243/)
DSC04974 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840531243/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5146/5841079746_923ed9357f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841079746/)
DSC04976 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841079746/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr


Interstate 495 on the Bus lane , Eastbound through Union city to Lincoln Tunnel.

Uhr2L-vwhwg

Evening Rush Hour along 495

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/5841868770_d3e2791ef5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841868770/)
DSCN2377 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841868770/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/5841869008_9277474898_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869008/)
DSCN2378 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869008/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2781/5841869174_606830d51a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869174/)
DSCN2379 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869174/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5238/5841869628_d2139ffaa9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869628/)
DSCN2382 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869628/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3420/5841869828_92062f7db8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869828/)
DSCN2383 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841869828/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5231/5841322719_9c42b8ddcb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841322719/)
DSCN2385 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841322719/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/5841322859_fbff452433_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841322859/)
DSCN2386 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841322859/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

Interstate 95

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/5841870694_e2e77d1032_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841870694/)
DSCN2388 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841870694/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/5841323413_0a8dfcc810_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841323413/)
DSCN2389 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841323413/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/5840559391_bc49d5ce81_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840559391/)
DSC05130 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840559391/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5840559491_104ab353db_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840559491/)
DSC05131 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5840559491/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5841108012_a1ed24bd1f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841108012/)
DSC05132 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841108012/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5841108252_74b3de9f96_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841108252/)
DSC05134 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/5841108252/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

JYXg2bXZllE

^^ Lovely pictures man! Like the video too.

^^Yes. Nice.
And those who were following the discussion a few days ago - was it on the France thread? - about bus lanes on freeways will note the one approaching the Lincoln Tunnel.

Great video of Interstate 64 in Saint Louis

HHHKaoFuiSU

Great video of Interstate 64 in Saint Louis


Brilliant! This tune is great to drive urban freeway ;)

Nice vid there. I didn't know I-64 had double-decked sections out there.

It seems that the route has more urban/downtown sections the further west you go (St. Louis, Louisville). Doesn't look like that in any of the bigger cities in Virginia.

As evidence, here's a vid I found of I-64 eastbound through Louisville:
6rlftyHusLQ

I can't believe they did a full reconstruction of I-64 and didn't provide full-width left shoulders. :ohno: