Great video of Interstate 64 in Saint Louis

minimum speed 40 :)

how many hours do the americans spend driving at day?

how many hours do the americans spend driving at day?
Probably little more than in many other countries, some people don't drive at all, others a lot. Some driving commutes are longer than in other countries, though.

Mike

^^ Lovely pictures man! Like the video too.

^^Yes. Nice.
And those who were following the discussion a few days ago - was it on the France thread? - about bus lanes on freeways will note the one approaching the Lincoln Tunnel.

Thankyou both , next time i'll try to get the Tunnel entrance and morning lanes....

Great video of Interstate 64 in Saint Louis

HHHKaoFuiSU

Love the difference you see at 3:00, "...back to classic 1960's freeway engineering", the difference is striking.

how many hours do the americans spend driving at day?

Like mgk920 said. I drive lots on weekends, whether to see my parents (80 miles away and my Dad's not very mobile at this point), do errands or just explore the countryside; but rarely drive an inch Monday-to-Friday, since I live five blocks from work and walking distance or public-transit distance from everything interesting in town.

Love the difference you see at 3:00, "...back to classic 1960's freeway engineering", the difference is striking.

That road actually goes back to the '40s, if I'm not mistaken: built as the Daniel Boone Expressway and was part of US 40 before they extended I-64 along it (which was relatively recent).

Is it true that people from New Jersey have a bad name when it comes to driving? Like Poles and Italians here in Europe, and the Dutch according to Austrians)

^^ Maybe it's because, stereotypically, many New Jerseyers (is it this the word?) are Guidos from Italy...

From what I've seen on American highway videos, most of them do not seem to have a clue about traffic flow or road etiquette. I would be freakishly annoyed with all those left-lane hoggers. Sometimes people just drive next to eachother without passing, not rarely below the speed limit. I don't really mind about people not using their turning signals when changing lanes as long as they don't do it right in front of you.

From what I've seen on American highway videos, most of them do not seem to have a clue about traffic flow or road etiquette. I would be freakishly annoyed with all those left-lane hoggers. Sometimes people just drive next to eachother without passing, not rarely below the speed limit. I don't really mind about people not using their turning signals when changing lanes as long as they don't do it right in front of you.

There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...

From what I've seen on American highway videos, most of them do not seem to have a clue about traffic flow or road etiquette. I would be freakishly annoyed with all those left-lane hoggers. Sometimes people just drive next to eachother without passing, not rarely below the speed limit. I don't really mind about people not using their turning signals when changing lanes as long as they don't do it right in front of you.

Very few things make me crazier than people driving side-by-side at the same speed (what's the point of having separate lanes, people?); and if you're driving alongside me, keeping pace, I will get out of that situation.

There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...

No law? That's not true. As is discussed earlier in this thread (or the other U.S. one), I believe. Such laws just aren't very enforced.

^^ Maybe it's because, stereotypically, many New Jerseyers (is it this the word?) are Guidos from Italy...

"New Jerseyan" or "New Jerseyite." I was born and raised there. My home town has a sizable number of people who come from the same town in Abruzzi, and you could hear dialect spoken in the barber shop I used to go to 20 years ago. I'm not sure New Jersey drivers have a worse reputation than... well, I try not to engage in such stereotypes. At least [switches into native-New Jerseyan mode] we're courteous to pedestrians.

Is it true that people from New Jersey have a bad name when it comes to driving? Like Poles and Italians here in Europe, and the Dutch according to Austrians)

I never heard of that. People around here usually think people from Massachusetts and New York are bad though.

There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...
Many USA states have 'slower traffic keep right' laws and do enforce them.

Mike

From what I've seen on American highway videos, most of them do not seem to have a clue about traffic flow or road etiquette. I would be freakishly annoyed with all those left-lane hoggers. Sometimes people just drive next to eachother without passing, not rarely below the speed limit. I don't really mind about people not using their turning signals when changing lanes as long as they don't do it right in front of you.

Thankfully US highways are big and have a lot of lanes so theres always a way to get passed the slow drivers.

Many USA states have 'slower traffic keep right' laws and do enforce them.

Mike

I really makes my blood boil to see some idiot driving at or under the speed limit on the left lane with plenty of room ahead of them. To make things worse, there is usually another idiot traveling at the same speed right next to them, making it impossible to pass :bash:

I never see people getting pulled over for that. I think on the highway the vast majority of cars get pulled over for speeding.

Thankfully US highways are big and have a lot of lanes so theres always a way to get passed the slow drivers.

Interstates have 2 lanes outside of the city.

I really makes my blood boil to see some idiot driving at or under the speed limit on the left lane with plenty of room ahead of them. To make things worse, there is usually another idiot traveling at the same speed right next to them, making it impossible to pass :bash:

I never see people getting pulled over for that. I think on the highway the vast majority of cars get pulled over for speeding.


Agreed on both points.

Interstates have 2 lanes outside of the city.

That's a bit of an exaggeration; at least in the Northeast, there are plenty of three-lane stretches outside urban areas (I mean three lanes each way, obviously).

"New Jerseyan" or "New Jerseyite." I was born and raised there. My home town has a sizable number of people who come from the same town in Abruzzi, and you could hear dialect spoken in the barber shop I used to go to 20 years ago. I'm not sure New Jersey drivers have a worse reputation than... well, I try not to engage in such stereotypes. At least [switches into native-New Jerseyan mode] we're courteous to pedestrians.

My girlfriend is from Abruzzi... her dialect is so different from Italian that I had hard time understanding her parents (who DIDN'T speak Italian), even if my hometown is only 300km from hers.

Back to the point, I don't like stereotypes either, but sometimes you can feel a very different behaviour going from one place to another. I got myself almost killed when I got back to Italy after a business week in Zurich, Switzerland: I got used to drivers stopping when they see a pedestrian approaching a crossing, so back in Italy I tried to cross as I would have done in Zurich... bad idea. Italian drivers simply don't care about pedestrian crossing. It's stereotype, but it's so true.

I love this cop:

ELZQ-Z6lASI

Many USA states have 'slower traffic keep right' laws and do enforce them.

Mike

Like who?

Many USA states have 'slower traffic keep right' laws and do enforce them.

Mike

The "enforce them" part is new to me. The only state I've seen it done in is Illinois.

How about a sign "fines halve outside work zones" ? :)

I see these signs outside of construction zones to begin with. I can't figure out what the fines double from, meaning what is the normal level.

My girlfriend is from Abruzzi... her dialect is so different from Italian that I had hard time understanding her parents (who DIDN'T speak Italian), even if my hometown is only 300km from hers.

Back to the point, I don't like stereotypes either, but sometimes you can feel a very different behaviour going from one place to another. I got myself almost killed when I got back to Italy after a business week in Zurich, Switzerland: I got used to drivers stopping when they see a pedestrian approaching a crossing, so back in Italy I tried to cross as I would have done in Zurich... bad idea. Italian drivers simply don't care about pedestrian crossing. It's stereotype, but it's so true.

What gets me in Italy is that even though there are 3 lanes full of solid traffic, there is always one who thinks that nobody else has the right to be on lane 3, and starts flashing his lights, going bumber to bumber. This is common practice on the A1 between Firenze and Napoli. In England, however, there are plenty of people who think it's acceptable to sit on the outside lane without actually overtaking. I try to flash them out of the way, and they get angry and start slamming the breaks... :bash:

^^ You're right, I hate flashers (except some kind of flashers (http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2009/2/88%20Angry%20Flasher.jpg))... in Italy they're common, and until recently they really got on my nerves. Some Audi big guys think that my Peugeot 207 has got 200hp like they do, but it really is not the case. So in those cases I finish my overtaking quietly and then move back to the normal lane. They can flash until their lamps break, I will not accelerate just to accommodate their delusions of grandeur...

^^ You're right, I hate flashers (except some kind of flashers (http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2009/2/88%20Angry%20Flasher.jpg))... in Italy they're common, and until recently they really got on my nerves. Some Audi big guys think that my Peugeot 207 has got 200hp like they do, but it really is not the case. So in those cases I finish my overtaking quietly and then move back to the normal lane. They can flash until their lamps break, I will not accelerate just to accommodate their delusions of grandeur...

Same with me.

Anyway, I'm heading for Munich in an hour - FLASH ME when you see me on the good ol' A8 :banana:

Same with me.

Anyway, I'm heading for Munich in an hour - FLASH ME when you see me on the good ol' A8 :banana:

Eheh, not sure if I'm actually taking A8 or A95, I will decide depending on traffic news... but if I do, expect a flash :)

What gets me in Italy is that even though there are 3 lanes full of solid traffic, there is always one who thinks that nobody else has the right to be on lane 3, and starts flashing his lights, going bumber to bumber. This is common practice on the A1 between Firenze and Napoli. In England, however, there are plenty of people who think it's acceptable to sit on the outside lane without actually overtaking. I try to flash them out of the way, and they get angry and start slamming the breaks... :bash:

In Spain there are a lot of people that find flashers annoying so despite flashers are also used, most people (at least in my zone) uses the left blinker instead the flashes when want to overtake a car in the left lane. Also its useful on daylight because people usually dont notice that you are flashing them unless you do it constantly (i think that's the reason of its annoyance)

^^ You're right, I hate flashers... in Italy they're common, and until recently they really got on my nerves. Some Audi big guys think that my Peugeot 207 has got 200hp like they do, but it really is not the case. So in those cases I finish my overtaking quietly and then move back to the normal lane. They can flash until their lamps break, I will not accelerate just to accommodate their delusions of grandeur...

While I dislike flashers, what infuriates me most in Italian traffic (I'm in Catania right now) are drivers who flash at you when you are driving at the prescribed speed on the rightmost lane. I play it safe with speed limits, even if they are stupid sometimes, I follow them. But some people can't handle it and start flashing and flashing. It happened to me yesterday when I was travelling Palermo-Catania, near an area where the limit is 80km/h. traffic flying at 150km/h was passing me on the left, then somebody on a Cinquecento (I was in a LAncia Delta) started flashing and, gosh, honking. Few km ahead, a bus tour driver came close and started bothering. I'm 100% sure about the speed limit, it is temporary (minor roadworks on the opposite side of the highway), posted numerous times along a 6-8km stretch, and there is a sign of end of restrictions (the 80 crossed in black and white) after the work zone ended.

Couple years ago I had the worst flashing experience. While driving on A3 between Giogia Tauro and Villa San Giovanni, there were a lot of work sites where the highway was 1+1, mostly on viaducts and tunnels. The limit there is usually 60km/h, sometimes 50km/h. I drove respecting it entirely, don't want an Autovelox to fine me. Two cars passed me illegally on a straight stretch, then a truck from Ukraine started honking and put high beams in the middle of a 2km-long tunnel operating as 1-lane only. It was somehow nerving, it made a lot of noise, he kept honking unstopped and so. I honestly wish there were the most annoying possible road cop there to give that harassing truck driver at least 4 fines.

While I dislike flashers, what infuriates me most in Italian traffic (I'm in Catania right now) are drivers who flash at you when you are driving at the prescribed speed on the rightmost lane. I play it safe with speed limits, even if they are stupid sometimes, I follow them. But some people can't handle it and start flashing and flashing. It happened to me yesterday when I was travelling Palermo-Catania, near an area where the limit is 80km/h. traffic flying at 150km/h was passing me on the left, then somebody on a Cinquecento (I was in a LAncia Delta) started flashing and, gosh, honking. Few km ahead, a bus tour driver came close and started bothering. I'm 100% sure about the speed limit, it is temporary (minor roadworks on the opposite side of the highway), posted numerous times along a 6-8km stretch, and there is a sign of end of restrictions (the 80 crossed in black and white) after the work zone ended.

Couple years ago I had the worst flashing experience. While driving on A3 between Giogia Tauro and Villa San Giovanni, there were a lot of work sites where the highway was 1+1, mostly on viaducts and tunnels. The limit there is usually 60km/h, sometimes 50km/h. I drove respecting it entirely, don't want an Autovelox to fine me. Two cars passed me illegally on a straight stretch, then a truck from Ukraine started honking and put high beams in the middle of a 2km-long tunnel operating as 1-lane only. It was somehow nerving, it made a lot of noise, he kept honking unstopped and so. I honestly wish there were the most annoying possible road cop there to give that harassing truck driver at least 4 fines.

I understand you... I don't respect speed limits always but at least I always respect people respecting them... but I've heard some scary stories about Italy (specifically Naples) of peoble honking you because you don't pass a red traffic light!

That reminds me when I was getting my driver license... you obviously have to respect every speed limit when practicing to get it... but some of them are really absurd... I remember one road with 1 lane connecting two motorways... limited to 40km/h ... I had a jam behind me and nobody ahead! but everybody respected me... also in your first year of license in Spain you are limited to 80km/h in every road... almost everybody respects you but you feel bad because you know that everybody hates you :S

^^ Sorry, somehow I thought I was replying to the Italian thread that was opened in other browser window.

Clear road signing in the US....

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q312/Road_UK/Interstate4Signs.jpg

That is some really bad photoshop :)

Man, how'd that British sign bridge get over here? :D

Clear road signing in the US....

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q312/Road_UK/Interstate4Signs.jpg

Can't be real. Besides the utter implausibility of the thing, I-195 in Florida's about 200 miles from I-4.

EDIT: and I-10's nowhere near either of them.

The small white truck and the red car are also photoshopped.

:lol:

The signs for old exits are bothersome, though. I saw them for the first time when I was driving in Pittsburgh on I-376 and I just couldn't understand why they exist. I can't imagine they help locals get used to new numbers any - they'll probably know their exits - or even those unfamiliar with a given road; all it seemed to do is provide additional information to sort through.

That's a photoshop. You know that right?

No no, not the picture, but the real practice of putting up "old ##" exit signs. Like I wrote, I've seen them in person, don't care for them, and don't understand the practice. Just curious about people's thoughts or some esoteric traffic engineering data

I see these signs outside of construction zones to begin with. I can't figure out what the fines double from, meaning what is the normal level.
It's double the regular fine of the jurisdiction you are in at the time of the offense. Let's say you commit a moving violation in a work zone, and the fine is $125 if it had occurred outside of said work zone, in say Washington State, just for sake of discussion, then the fine would be $250.

The reason fines double in work zones, is because of the risk to construction crews in said zones. They may be working right next to moving traffic, which could, depending on the work being carried out and zone setup, be carrying traffic moving at up to 80 km/h (55MPH). I speak from personal experience too. In theory, it's supposed to drive home the message that committing moving violations in a work zone, puts said workers at an increased risk of injury and/or death.

No no, not the picture, but the real practice of putting up "old ##" exit signs. Like I wrote, I've seen them in person, don't care for them, and don't understand the practice. Just curious about people's thoughts or some esoteric traffic engineering data

I live in Pennsylvania. You still see them lots of places. Your previous post is probably right in that people know their own exits, but the "old exit" tabs probably are useful to people who come through a given area occasionally. (If the last time you went where you're going now was six months ago, and your directions referred to the exit number, as opposed to, say, a route, and they've changed the exit number since....) I'm not convinced they still need to be up there now, 11 years after the renumbering (and they aren't everywhere); I just assume no one wants to go to the expense of taking them down, and that the next time signs are redone, they'll be gone.

That said, 376 through Pittsburgh could be worse: until about a year ago the segment west of I-79 was not an Interstate (and had unnumbered exits, I believe) and the segment from 79 t0 279 was part of 279, so there are now actually two old exit numbers for any given exit (at least east of 79): on the piece east of 279 that was always numbered as 376, the exits would have been numbered consecutively from 279, until 2000, then numbered by mileage from 279, from 2000 to 2010, then numbered by mileage from I-80 now. I was in Pittsburgh two years (and one renumbering) ago, and the "old exit" tabs were still there; I hope when they changed exit numbers last year, they didn't put up a second set of "old exit" tabs without taking down the older ones, so that there aren't two "old exits" for each exit now.... If I haven't totally lost you.:nuts:

There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...

It is law

I guess I'm getting a little too off-topic, but one sign that aggravates me is "Fines doubled for speeding". How is this not double punishment? Is there a fine for not speeding or something?

"Double punishment"? Double jeopardy - which the Constitution prohibits - would be trying someone twice on the same set of facts. (If you're acquitted of murder, they can't come back a couple of months later with a new jury and try for manslaughter, or for murder again for that matter.) New Jersey has signs at the state lines reading "fines doubled in 65 mph zones - speeding and other violations."

A state has every right to add a line to its statutes reading that "all fines in this section shall be doubled for violations occurring in construction zones," or whatever.

I'm not convinced they still need to be up there now, 11 years after the renumbering... What the? That's horrible. I figured those signs were from the year before!

Well, on 376, as I said, they could be from last year! But "horrible" seems like an overstatement - they're easy enough to ignore.

Just wait till New York is forced to switch to mileage-based numbering: you'll have them there too.

^ That's what's horrible: from last year or years ago, but still up. I would think they served their purpose a while back!
I may not drive all that often, living in the city, but I know it'll happen so I can't wait to see the City and State of New York get the miles wrong, reseting to 0 when entering and leaving the city! Anyway, thanks for the little history lesson above!

There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...

There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...

Like who?
Actually, in WA they do enforce them. I knew two people who were fined because they were hogging the left lane on I-90 (2x2, rural area, Eastern WA). But then again, in WA people typically do not block left lanes to begin with.

It's double the regular fine of the jurisdiction you are in at the time of the offense. Let's say you commit a moving violation in a work zone, and the fine is $125 if it had occurred outside of said work zone, in say Washington State, just for sake of discussion, then the fine would be $250.

The reason fines double in work zones, is because of the risk to construction crews in said zones. They may be working right next to moving traffic, which could, depending on the work being carried out and zone setup, be carrying traffic moving at up to 80 km/h (55MPH). I speak from personal experience too. In theory, it's supposed to drive home the message that committing moving violations in a work zone, puts said workers at an increased risk of injury and/or death.

The road signs for safety in workzones in BC are absolutely ridiculous. They don't drive the point home at all. Some sappy murals of a toddler playing with a toy truck saying "My daddy works here, please slow down". How much taxpayer money did the government spend on these works of art :lol: A simple diamond road sign saying "Workers ahead, give them a brake" (get it), would suffice. The latter signs are used in WA state.

There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...

Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know this and will keep on doing 70 mph in the middle or outside lanes. They are paying road tax, so they want ALL the road!

Seeing a driver on the 4-lane motorway of the M25 near Leatherhead on lane 3 or 4 with no traffic in lane 1 or 2 fills me with rage....

Seeing a driver on the 4-lane motorway of the M25 near Leatherhead on lane 3 or 4 with no traffic in lane 1 or 2 fills me with rage....

It must be rare sight. M25 on that stretch is often full on all lanes ;)

It must be rare sight. M25 on that stretch is often full on all lanes ;)

Not at 3am. And even in the day time, sometimes the two inside lanes are empty with lane 3 and 4 practically congested. A typical British way of lane discipline. There isn't any, and in the professional driving world, Britain is well known for that....

Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking.No it's not illegal:
Lane discipline
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
...
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."MUST"/"MUST NOT" means a direction that not following it is illegal, whereas "should"/"should not"/"do not" kind of language means that you aren't following the rules of the road ("should not" being less strong than "do not"), but not committing an explicit legal offence by doing so.

You could get done for careless driving, etc (though not normally if you don't have an accident), and it will certainly affect your insurance matters and who's at fault if an accident occurs. But that's about it - the police might want to set you right about something if you are in the bounds of careless driving while doing what you shouldn't, but I reckon that happens so rarely that it is of little consequence.
Not at 3am. And even in the day time, sometimes the two inside lanes are empty with lane 3 and 4 practically congested. A typical British way of lane discipline. There isn't any, and in the professional driving world, Britain is well known for that....Lane 1 and 2 tend to be avoided by cars on motorways (though lane 2 less so) as speed limited lorries do elephant racing in them, where one which is limited to 90km/h is overtaking one limited to 89km/h and neither will slow down from going at the fastest speed they can, meaning a long drawn-out overtake. Lorries are also banned from lane 3, so even at 3am, you know that you aren't going to suddenly meet a vehicle that has a speed limit 10mph lower than yours and also can't legally meet that, so is driving at least 20% slower than you.

No it's not illegal:
"MUST"/"MUST NOT" means a direction that not following it is illegal, whereas "should"/"should not"/"do not" kind of language means that you aren't following the rules of the road ("should not" being less strong than "do not"), but not committing an explicit legal offence by doing so.

You could get done for careless driving, etc (though not normally if you don't have an accident), and it will certainly affect your insurance matters and who's at fault if an accident occurs. But that's about it - the police might want to set you right about something if you are in the bounds of careless driving while doing what you shouldn't, but I reckon that happens so rarely that it is of little consequence.
Lane 1 and 2 tend to be avoided by cars on motorways (though lane 2 less so) as speed limited lorries do elephant racing in them, where one which is limited to 90km/h is overtaking one limited to 89km/h and neither will slow down from going at the fastest speed they can, meaning a long drawn-out overtake. Lorries are also banned from lane 3, so even at 3am, you know that you aren't going to suddenly meet a vehicle that has a speed limit 10mph lower than yours and also can't legally meet that, so is driving at least 20% slower than you.

You are getting too technical. Fact of the matter is that drivers should keep in lane 1 unless overtaking. It's not rocket science.

The semantics are important - drivers should keep left unless overtaking, but it is not illegal to not do so. It's even more important, given that this is the conversation:
There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking.So you made a post on the technicalities of UK law as you felt that Daniel was wrong in saying it's only discouraged and that it is not illegal (ie that there's a difference between 'should' and 'MUST'). I say something similar to Daniel, backing it up with the Highway Code, and you say that there's no difference between the two words - make your mind up!

'Undertaking' is a case of not moving right to overtake, but keeping or (worse) moving left - thus, even if it was illegal, wouldn't imply that it's illegal "keep left unless overtaking", only "move right to overtake" - at best it implies the "unless overtaking" bit.

Also note how it tells people "do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake". - I'd argue that constantly flitting between lanes 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, overtaking a couple of vehicles and pulling back in for a minute or less before repeating the process counts here - ie that it's legitimate - and encouraged - not to move back left if you are going to have move back out to overtake something up ahead (lets say less than 1km, maybe up to a mile). There's certainly some interpretative vagueness here.

The Highway Code also encourages passing on the left if the lane on the right is moving slower in congested conditions.

In summary, the US's legal situation (depending on state) is far more to your cup of tea than the UK's - where the rules of the road, but not the law of the Crown, agree with you sometimes (and sometimes the rules of the road disagree with you).

It's not rocket science, but it's not the simplistic toddler version you have either.

This was just posted in another forvm, a *SWEET* ride on westbound I-80 from downtown Reno, NV to Truckee, CA, including a quick stop at the 'California customs' station at Truckee.

2EhznLoqtcg

Enjoy!

:okay:

Mike

^^ It is noticeable how the pavement degrades once one enters in CA. I experienced once a similar "shock", but while actually driving, on I-70, exiting Utah and entering Colorado.

Are US States allowed to operate catch-all checkpoints? I though that was illegal. And it is weird anyway.

That's an agricultural inspection station. They have something similar in Australia.

^^ It is noticeable how the pavement degrades once one enters in CA. I experienced once a similar "shock", but while actually driving, on I-70, exiting Utah and entering Colorado.

Are US States allowed to operate catch-all checkpoints? I though that was illegal. And it is weird anyway.

California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.

California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.

They like to separate themselves from the rest of the country in other areas too. :)

California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.

Is that for the only purpose of keeping diseases and parasites outside?

California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.

Not just a separate ecosystem; I believe the trigger for this was some specific infestation they wanted to contain. I wonder if it's ever been challenged in court, though; if every state did that, we'd have a major interstate-commerce issue. Border inspections within the country...just seem wrong. And we've discussed this at AA Roads and some of the Californians there think the inspection stations in the south are functioning these days more to flush out undocumented immigrants.

^^ It is noticeable how the pavement degrades once one enters in CA. I experienced once a similar "shock", but while actually driving, on I-70, exiting Utah and entering Colorado.
That's not "degraded pavement"... that's new concrete!

Caltrans (California Department of Transportation) is in the middle of a complete overhaul of I-80 over the Sierra Nevada mountains that includes replacing the 50+ year old pavement. The section of I-80 featured in the video from the Nevada stateline to the Truckee River bridge was completely repaved in late 2010 with new concrete.

For more information about this project go to www.getacross80.com (http://www.getacross80.com)

Drivers will going a bit faster, Kansas is uping the speed limit on freeways outside Witchita and Topeka to 75. But there more surprising news in that Maine will increase the limits I-95 north of Bangor to 75 finally breaking up that northeast block of states with 65 mph limits hopefully this pushes other those states increase their speed limits

Lawmakers OK 75-mph speed limit between Old Town, Houlton

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/28/politics/lawmakers-ok-75-mph-speed-limit-between-old-town-houlton/


http://sabethaherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/75-MPH-MAP-460x280.jpg

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15004154/kansas-speed-limit-increase

This was just posted in another forvm, a *SWEET* ride on westbound I-80 from downtown Reno, NV to Truckee, CA, including a quick stop at the 'California customs' station at Truckee.

2EhznLoqtcg

Enjoy!

:okay:

Mike
Part two, westward from Truckee, CA and down much of the west side:

zkKT4CuIJdQ

The wide area at the beginning is the original site of the 'California customs' station, before it was moved farther east.

Also, the elevation at the summit ('7239') is 2206.4 meters.

Enjoy!

:yes:

Mike

Drivers will going a bit faster, Kansas is uping the speed limit on freeways outside Witchita and Topeka to 75. But there more surprising news in that Maine will increase the limits I-95 north of Bangor to 75 finally breaking up that northeast block of states with 65 mph limits hopefully this pushes other those states increase their speed limits

Lawmakers OK 75-mph speed limit between Old Town, Houlton

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/28/politics/lawmakers-ok-75-mph-speed-limit-between-old-town-houlton/


http://sabethaherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/75-MPH-MAP-460x280.jpg

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15004154/kansas-speed-limit-increase

I hope it spreads to reset of the Northeast. There is no reason why speed limits should be kept at 65.

Not just a separate ecosystem; I believe the trigger for this was some specific infestation they wanted to contain. I wonder if it's ever been challenged in court, though; if every state did that, we'd have a major interstate-commerce issue. Border inspections within the country...just seem wrong. And we've discussed this at AA Roads and some of the Californians there think the inspection stations in the south are functioning these days more to flush out undocumented immigrants.

Florida and Texas have them as well.

In the Southwest states they also have Permanent Border Patrol checkpoints on the Interstates which are used occasionaly.

^^
Now that you mention it, I've heard about Florida, but if memory serves passenger cars aren't required to stop - can someone confirm that? Never heard about Texas.

Florida and Texas have them as well.

In the Southwest states they also have Permanent Border Patrol checkpoints on the Interstates which are used occasionaly.

Are they activated when there is some AMBER alert in the area, for instance?

Yes Florida has agriculture stations only for larger vehicles, passenger vehicles don't stop.

^^
Now that you mention it, I've heard about Florida, but if memory serves passenger cars aren't required to stop - can someone confirm that? Never heard about Texas.

Only trucks carrying livestock are inspected in Texas, ditto for Florida except I think that covers any agricultural products moving into the state.

Are they activated when there is some AMBER alert in the area, for instance?

Regarding the Border Patrol checkpoints on the interstates, they are only occasionaly used by the Border Patrol to search for either drugs or illegal immigrants.

http://octopup.org/img/sw2002/m/SW2002-0877--Texas--Road--Border-Inspection-Station.jpg
Here is an example of one on I-10 just east of El Paso, TX.

There also used to be INS checkpoints along US 1 in the Florida Keys until the mayor of Key West decided to draw attention and "seceed" from the US in order to remove the checkpoints.
United States Border Patrol Interior Checkpoints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints)

A short, pathetic, photo-free trip report:

The widening of I-75 and I-475 in Georgia to 2x3 is now complete. Disregarding two short sections of 2x2 within the I-24 and the northern I-75-475 interchanges, the 2x3 segment is 505 miles/813 km long (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=i-75+at+florida's+turnpike&daddr=i-75+at+us+64&hl=en&ll=31.409912,-81.782227&spn=10.342706,14.128418&sll=35.083885,-85.070143&sspn=0.01921,0.027595&geocode=FUZmuAEdJWYb-yl_ymRoU9zniDEEdbrHc-r4jA%3BFdlaFwId1ert-ilzLb3eDn1giDGcwvv0lIJuUA&mra=ls&z=6).

Except...

The original concrete pavement between GA 27 (mile 112) and GA 26 (mile 127) is in very bad shape and work has begun to (I guess) replace it, so traffic has been reduced back to two lanes in each direction. I'm not sure what they'll do here, but since the new lanes added (IIRC) in the early '00's are still in OK shape, I suspect that they'll do the same type of reconstruction they've done recently on I-85 from south of Newnan to GA 74 at Fairburn: Build new concrete lanes and an unjersey barrier in the rather narrow median, shift traffic onto the new lane and the '00's lane, remove and replace the two deteriorated old lanes, then open the three right lanes in each direction and use the new left lane as a shoulder.

Or maybe they'll just build pavement as a heavy-duty shoulder and forget the unjersey barrier. By my eye it looks as though the alignment is straight enough that no more than the 2% cross slope used for shoulders will be needed, and I don't see enough difference in the elevations of the two roadways to make a concrete barrier do double duty as a retaining wall.

The slightly-older asphalt paving north of there is still doing fine. :banana:

The I-75/475 south interchange is finished, with a startling five lanes of traffic in each direction, but the new folded diamond interchange south of there is progressing at a glacial pace. If you're going that way, watch for the closure of two left lanes southbound-- it could get hairy there if traffic is heavy.

There's an oddity at Exit 41 in Sparks, GA (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=i-75+at+florida's+turnpike&daddr=i-75+at+us+64&hl=en&ll=31.169555,-83.450282&spn=0,0.013797&sll=35.083885,-85.070143&sspn=0.01921,0.027595&geocode=FUZmuAEdJWYb-yl_ymRoU9zniDEEdbrHc-r4jA%3BFdlaFwId1ert-ilzLb3eDn1giDGcwvv0lIJuUA&mra=ls&z=16&layer=c&cbll=31.169366,-83.450243&panoid=9LllljcHP3O_nr278-22Rw&cbp=12,179.14,,1,5.8): A bright, red-white-and-blue Interstate shield directs I-75 traffic onto this crappy little exit in the middle of nowhere. :lol: Sometimes the DOT guys really aren't into their work. :ohno:

Nice video of Interstate 55 through Saint Louis:

MdKAybEhrYw

Sometimes, here and there, I read that these checkpoints were being a "preparation for extended martial law, curfews and police state in America" in certain off-the-mark blogs.

msFEj-UBU9Q

sDjB1e7CNF4


As much as those guyes might be exaggerating the issue, it amazes me that major checkpoint facilities on Interstate routes can operate without much opposition.

Nice video of Interstate 55 through Saint Louis:


Having grown up in St. Louis, I can say that the highways downtown are AWFUL.

St. Louis to Fulton, Missouri in 3 minutes (just under 100 miles).

Most of the video is on I-70.

eGScdu4XFlw

msFEj-UBU9Q

smartass :bash:

Only trucks carrying livestock are inspected in Texas, ditto for Florida except I think that covers any agricultural products moving into the state.



Regarding the Border Patrol checkpoints on the interstates, they are only occasionaly used by the Border Patrol to search for either drugs or illegal immigrants.

http://octopup.org/img/sw2002/m/SW2002-0877--Texas--Road--Border-Inspection-Station.jpg
Here is an example of one on I-10 just east of El Paso, TX.

There also used to be INS checkpoints along US 1 in the Florida Keys until the mayor of Key West decided to draw attention and "seceed" from the US in order to remove the checkpoints.
United States Border Patrol Interior Checkpoints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints)

I went through that one on I-10 near Sierra Blanca a few months ago. Are those checkpoints in operation 24/7?

I went through that one on I-10 near Sierra Blanca a few months ago. Are those checkpoints in operation 24/7?

No, the Border Patrol only uses those inspection stations periodicaly, however they are monitored by security cameras as well.

Part 3, from just west of Donner Summit to the rest area at mp 143:

vGnHMSGVMlI

And,
Part 4, from the rest area to the outer edge of the Sacramento, CA metro area.

bOMdsDpw8DQ

These two are an almost surreal ride through hills and pine forest, while keeping in mind that there is an over 2 km vertical drop on I-80 westbound from Donner Summit to Sacramento. I am still amazed that on its entire routing, I-80 only has three tunnels - one in Wyoming, one in Nevada and the other between the bridges on its crossing of San Francisco Bay and that none were needed in the Sierras.

Mike

Despite the Alps being of similar height as the Rocky Mountains in the contiguous U.S., their ridges are much narrower, which means that you can get through the main chain using a 10-mile tunnel. This doesn't work in the Rocky Mountains, where the valleys are generally much higher and mountain ranges are significantly wider (longer) to cross. The highest freeway in the Alps is only at 4,200 feet, while it is not uncommon for Interstate 80 to be at 7,000+ feet.

Yep. And I was surprised when I saw that I-70 climbs up to the same height as the highest peak of the Pyrenees: 3404 meters (That's it, 11168 feet) above sea level.

Ending at just under 100 m in altitude. Between Sacramento and the Bay area metro area, there are places with land that is below sea level.

NB38Ly63JHQ

Mike

I-5 in north San Diego:
http://i.imgur.com/HEbYa.jpg

WH2Kk_V7Y5M

And,
Part 4, from the rest area to the outer edge of the Sacramento, CA metro area.

bOMdsDpw8DQ

These two are an almost surreal ride through hills and pine forest, while keeping in mind that there is an over 2 km vertical drop on I-80 westbound from Donner Summit to Sacramento. I am still amazed that on its entire routing, I-80 only has three tunnels - one in Wyoming, one in Nevada and the other between the bridges on its crossing of San Francisco Bay and that none were needed in the Sierras.

Mike

Thanks for putting up a vid of my hometown Mike. Doesnt look like much has changed in a few years.

SR 520 in Washington State will be using hard shoulder running as an auxiliary lane for the first time once the westside of the bridge replacement scheme is completed. The shoulder will be 14 feet wide, and when in use, it will serve as a 12-foot lane with a 2-foot shoulder.

This sign will be used.

http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl07012/images/figure_16a_sm.jpg

It is a compromise between the public, who want a narrower bridge, and WSDOT, who wants to minimized traffic impacts on surrounding surface streets.

The same concept is being considered for I-5 in Marysville.

Actually, in WA they do enforce them. I knew two people who were fined because they were hogging the left lane on I-90 (2x2, rural area, Eastern WA). But then again, in WA people typically do not block left lanes to begin with.

I drove from Seattle to Leavenworth a few weeks ago and was surprised that I didn't have to overtake a single person on the right. People always stayed out of the left lane, except for one person. Just for fun, I flashed high-beams twice and signalled left towards the shoulder, and then he moved over.

Two weeks later when I roadtripped to Yakima, it was a different story. Multiple people (and even trucks) hogging the left lane throughout the trip. It's noticeable because the roadway gets fairly congested behind left-lane hoggers. Once you get past them, traffic spreads out again. I wish I'd gotten it on video.

The one thing I noticed though was that in 2 x 3 highways, the right lane is almost never used. In fact I did traffic counts once and found that the right lane consistently has the least amount of traffic in free-flow conditions. Another concern I had was that it is stated that the left lane may only be used for overtaking in Washington State law, but it doesn't address hogging the middle lane when the right lane is wide open. But then again, we have signs that say "Keep right except to pass", which implies moving as far right as possible. So which exactly is it?

^^

And speaking of the shoulder lane, yesterday, some driver actually passed me on the right shoulder lane on I-95.

SR 520 in Washington State will be using hard shoulder running as an auxiliary lane for the first time once the westside of the bridge replacement scheme is completed. The shoulder will be 14 feet wide, and when in use, it will serve as a 12-foot lane with a 2-foot shoulder.

This sign will be used.

http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl07012/images/figure_16a_sm.jpg

It is a compromise between the public, who want a narrower bridge, and WSDOT, who wants to minimized traffic impacts on surrounding surface streets.

The same concept is being considered for I-5 in Marysville.

Cool, the signs are exactly the same as used in the Netherlands since the 1990's. (except for the English language of course).

http://www.rtvnh.nl/data/thumb/abc_media_image/10000/10672/w380_cropped_d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg

The one thing I noticed though was that in 2 x 3 highways, the right lane is almost never used. In fact I did traffic counts once and found that the right lane consistently has the least amount of traffic in free-flow conditions.

I watch American highway videos often, and it never ceases to amaze me why people drive in the left lanes for no apparent reason. Sometimes the right lane is clear for miles, yet people stick to the middle or left lanes. Although we do have some left-lane hogging (and middle-lane sticking) in Europe as well, it's nowhere nearly as bad as in the United States.

Cool, the signs are exactly the same as used in the Netherlands since the 1990's. (except for the English language of course).

http://www.rtvnh.nl/data/thumb/abc_media_image/10000/10672/w380_cropped_d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg

Yeah, we're going to adopt them. WSDOT says ours is going to be written in Dutch as well.
.
.
.
Just kidding. :cheers:

^^

And speaking of the shoulder lane, yesterday, some driver actually passed me on the right shoulder lane on I-95.

Hell I've used the exit lane to pass people. :cheers:

I watch American highway videos often, and it never ceases to amaze me why people drive in the left lanes for no apparent reason. Sometimes the right lane is clear for miles, yet people stick to the middle or left lanes. Although we do have some left-lane hogging (and middle-lane sticking) in Europe as well, it's nowhere nearly as bad as in the United States.


It seems like in cities the right lane is always trying to take you off the freeway, seems like the most chaotic lane because people are entering slowly, merging stupidly, slowing down too much. One of my friends a while back on a road trip hogged the left lane for the entire trip...his explanation "I like the left lane." I love the "left lane for passing only signs" they've put up here in Texas but I think they should mount flashing lights on them for better effect.

If we actually had proper driving education or enforcement our roads could be more efficient. If I'm sitting passenger in somebodies car and they are sitting in the left lane it annoys me so much I always say why are you sitting in the passing lane? Most people answer with confusion not knowing that was the passing lane, some argue its not. It never ceases to amaze me.

SR 520 in Washington State will be using hard shoulder running as an auxiliary lane for the first time once the westside of the bridge replacement scheme is completed. The shoulder will be 14 feet wide, and when in use, it will serve as a 12-foot lane with a 2-foot shoulder.

This sign will be used.

http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl07012/images/figure_16a_sm.jpg

It is a compromise between the public, who want a narrower bridge, and WSDOT, who wants to minimized traffic impacts on surrounding surface streets.

The same concept is being considered for I-5 in Marysville.

What is the current configuration of this road?

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Frankly, if I have three or more lanes available and traffic's heavyish, I'll usually stick to the lane next to the right one: you're not conflicting with entering and exiting traffic, or constantly changing lanes to pass. But I tend to drive a bit above the limit (say low 70s in a 65).

In an area where there are long gaps between exits, but still three lanes (say 95 in northeastern Maryland) I'll stick to the right more.

I wonder how many people on this forum who complain about driving not on the right lane ever drove busy American urban freeway.
There are exit/entry ramps every mile or even less, plenty of traffic joining/leaving freeway. Add masses of slow trucks and you understand why people often avoid two right lanes on 5-6 lane urban freeways. I do it myself. Otherwise you constantly change lanes which is more dangerous than necessary.
Especially if you drive a bit faster than the limit ;)

On the rural freeways it's entirely different matter. People still drive in the left even if right lane is empty. But I guess many people spend most of their time driving urban freeways and that's where they develop their driving habits. Unfortunately they drive on rural two lane roads in the same manner.

^^Yep.
Although I was on 81 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike yesterday and most people stuck to the right.
I was - particularly on 81 - wondering what life would be like with a German-style Sunday truck ban, though....

The Triborough Bridge in New York City turns 75 years today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Hell_Gate_and_Triborough_Bridges_New_York_City_Queens.jpg

^^Renamed, about three years ago, the Robert F. Kennedy Bridge. Traffic reports (I'm in the New York area a couple times a month to see my parents) have already started calling it "the RFK" more often than "the Triborough."

Just a point of information.

I wonder how many people on this forum who complain about driving not on the right lane ever drove busy American urban freeway.
There are exit/entry ramps every mile or even less, plenty of traffic joining/leaving freeway. Add masses of slow trucks and you understand why people often avoid two right lanes on 5-6 lane urban freeways. I do it myself. Otherwise you constantly change lanes which is more dangerous than necessary.
Especially if you drive a bit faster than the limit ;)

On the rural freeways it's entirely different matter. People still drive in the left even if right lane is empty. But I guess many people spend most of their time driving urban freeways and that's where they develop their driving habits. Unfortunately they drive on rural two lane roads in the same manner.

I could understand this during rush hour, but what periods between rush hour, or at night?

^^Renamed, about three years ago, the Robert F. Kennedy Bridge. Traffic reports (I'm in the New York area a couple times a month to see my parents) have already started calling it "the RFK" more often than "the Triborough."

Just a point of information.

Already? Thats pretty quick, the bridge in Figueira was renamed five years ago and is still known as its old name, and people in Portugal still say Rhodesia

I could understand this during rush hour, but what periods between rush hour, or at night?

When's the last time you were on 95 between Baltimore and Wilmington on a Sunday afternoon, say? Unless you're willing to stick to about 55, you're either going to be in and out of the right lane or just sticking to the middle one. I persist in believing that sticking to the middle lane as long as possible is at least as safe as the in-and-out thing.

When's the last time you were on 95 between Baltimore and Wilmington on a Sunday afternoon, say? Unless you're willing to stick to about 55, you're either going to be in and out of the right lane or just sticking to the middle one. I persist in believing that sticking to the middle lane as long as possible is at least as safe as the in-and-out thing.

Sorry, what I meant is staying off the far left lane during periods of low traffic.

^^Gotcha.

What is the current configuration of this road?

Currently it's a 2x2 dual carriageway. The new replacement bridge will be a 2x3 dual carriageway, with an additional westbound hard shoulder-running acting as an auxiliary lane.

Where I-95 intersects I-695 (Baltimore Beltway) northeast of the city. This has been a major project thats actually been scaled back due to the economy. This angle is looking south.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Exit33_I-695_MD.jpg/800px-Exit33_I-695_MD.jpg

Photo from Wikipedia.

^^What's been scaled back? I know they redid that interchange and the 95/895 one a couple of years ago - are you talking about the express lanes or is there more to be done on the interchange itself?

Scaled back or not, that is a very impressive stack interchange. Not many of those in the Northeast.

I watch American highway videos often, and it never ceases to amaze me why people drive in the left lanes for no apparent reason. Sometimes the right lane is clear for miles, yet people stick to the middle or left lanes. Although we do have some left-lane hogging (and middle-lane sticking) in Europe as well, it's nowhere nearly as bad as in the United States.

Lane discipline among US drivers is very lacking to say the least. :ohno:

In Houston for example you can have a 14-lane freeway and yet some idiot still decides to go 55mph in the left lane. :bash:

I watch American highway videos often, and it never ceases to amaze me why people drive in the left lanes for no apparent reason. Sometimes the right lane is clear for miles, yet people stick to the middle or left lanes. Although we do have some left-lane hogging (and middle-lane sticking) in Europe as well, it's nowhere nearly as bad as in the United States.

Most places in America only have 6+ lanes in populated areas with numerous exits and entrances, so staying on the right lane is inviting a merging disaster.

Most places in America only have 6+ lanes in populated areas with numerous exits and entrances, so staying on the right lane is inviting a merging disaster.

What I usually do is to pre-empt the merging lanes changing to the right lane when I see cars on the acceleration lane or near a busy junction.

At the same time, what I really didn't like in US on the areas I used do drive (WY, CO, UT) where 2+2 is much more common are drivers who keep tailgating when you are driving at the speed limit on the left lane while the right lane is moving slower due to a climb or something full of trucks.

It happened often between Laramie and Cheyenne: despite some truck lanes here and there in WY, some sections are inclined, and trucks go around at 50mph there. Then, you either stick at 5omph on the right lane or drive at the seepd limit (65/75) on the right lane. But there are always drivers who think all traffic not moving "fast" should take the right lane, even if is moving below the speed limit.

In UT this is common also. Many people drive cars at 85mph-90mph. There are many trucks on I-70. So if you want to stick to the 75mph limit and avoid treacherous UT highway police speed traps, you have to put up with the not-so-occasional driver thinking you need to slow down and go to the right lane to give her/him passage, like it were an ambulance or f.f. engine.

Most places in America only have 6+ lanes in populated areas with numerous exits and entrances, so staying on the right lane is inviting a merging disaster.

Most highway videos are shot during low traffic hours, and often the right lane is completely free with no merging traffic whatsoever and still people don't get into the right lane, it's just for decoration.

here in sonoma co we have 3+3 with the fast lane being a carpool lane during the morning and evening commute hours. it's funny because people will still avoid the lane during the weekend or outside the posted hours. there could be significant traffic in the right 2 lanes but the left lane will be virtually empty.

^^Like temporary bus lanes (at certain hours) here

here in sonoma co we have 3+3 with the fast lane being a carpool lane during the morning and evening commute hours. it's funny because people will still avoid the lane during the weekend or outside the posted hours. there could be significant traffic in the right 2 lanes but the left lane will be virtually empty.
It's funny why that happens. I remember a lane for 2+ occupancy vehicles (I think North of Nashville, TN) on whichever Interstate it is. I made sure I didn't drive in that lane, it was only an hour later that I realized that there were 3 passengers in the car so I could've driven in that lane. I guess the brain sees "only for..." and even when it reads the whole thing it thinks "not for me, it's only for..." I felt really stupid, and almost wanted to go back just so that I could drive in that lane! I'm sure I won't make that mistake again though.

Unless you have European style electronic dynamic signs, lanes that are certain things only at certain times are very unclear. Northern California is probably the worst, as there are only those small median carpool signs to give any indication of temporary HOV access.

I honestly think rush hour-only HOV lanes are pretty pointless, because by the time the peak is over there is not enough SOV traffic to need the extra lane opened by the lane. Not only that it only makes it confusing and complicating things to drivers, as they try to read "7-9am 3-6pm" moving at 70 mph.

I'm so glad we don't have that HOV idiocy in my part of the country. :hahaha:

I think the completely-separated reversible HOV lanes used in Northern Virginia are the best way to go.

I think the completely-separated reversible HOV lanes used in Northern Virginia are the best way to go.

Houston has those as well with separate exits for the HOV lanes included. Problem is most of them are only one lane across with no shoulder so if there is an aciddent there is no way to get around it and traffic just backs up.

I think the completely-separated reversible HOV lanes used in Northern Virginia are the best way to go.
Having driven up and down 95 extensively, I tend to agree.

What's the deal with the lack of highway lighting on Virginia?? Even in the big metros like Richmond and NoVa, there are no lights on the highways and exits? Makes it horrible to navigate at night if you're not a local.

Carmageddon in Los Angeles has just begun :)

What's the deal with the lack of highway lighting on Virginia?? Even in the big metros like Richmond and NoVa, there are no lights on the highways and exits? Makes it horrible to navigate at night if you're not a local.
Lighting is inconsistent, I'll agree with that. You'll find lights in some spots but not in others... usually at certain interchanges, but not lining the roads.

However, in Hampton Roads you'll find lights on I-64 and 664 in Newport News, Hampton, Norfolk, and (IIRC) Virginia Beach... but less so in Chesapeake and Suffolk. Not sure about Portsmouth.

I'll say this though... from my experience, highway lighting in Virginia is much better than in Georgia and even Maryland.

Well, I'm going to have to disagree about Georgia. In the cities, the portions of highways and exits are the exception to the rule, whereas in Richmond and NoVa the opposite is true.

Carmageddon in Los Angeles has just begun :)

Only in LA.

Well, I'm going to have to disagree about Georgia. In the cities, the portions of highways and exits are the exception to the rule, whereas in Richmond and NoVa the opposite is true.
75/85 has streetlights in Atlanta, yeah. But I don't recall seeing a single streetlight on I-20 either in metro Atlanta or Augusta. Or 285 away from the airport. Athens, where I live? Nothing. Can't call it about Columbus, Macon, or Savannah.

Guess it all depends where you are in Virginia. I've never found it to be excessively dark there unless I was in the boonies. Question though: when was the last time you were in VA?

I was there last weekend.

So what's up with the reconstruction of I-405?

I was there last weekend.
Gotcha.

Maybe when they finish all the construction, especially in Northern VA, it will be better lit. Maybe. :shifty:

Most highway videos are shot during low traffic hours, and often the right lane is completely free with no merging traffic whatsoever and still people don't get into the right lane, it's just for decoration.

This is what I mean:
http://i.imgur.com/Utxak.jpg

So what's up with the reconstruction of I-405?

I'm feeling too lazy to check right now, but weren't they replacing an overpass or something? I think it was just a one-weekend project.

Apparently the Mulholland Dr bridge reconstruction is just a beginning of a 10-mile stretch widening project.

Some info:
The I-405 Sepulveda Pass Improvements Project will add a 10-mile HOV lane and improve supporting infrastructure such as ramps, bridges and sound walls on the San Diego Fwy. (I-405); while widening lanes from the Santa Monica Fwy. (I-10) to the Ventura Fwy. (US-101).

This project will reduce existing and forecasted traffic congestion on the I-405 and enhance traffic operations by adding freeway capacity in an area that experiences heavy congestion. In addition to these modifications, the project will improve both existing and future mobility and enhance safety throughout the corridor.

Project benefits include a decrease in commuter time, reduction in air pollution, and promotion of ridesharing.

The I-405 Sepulveda Pass Improvements Project will:

Add a 10-mile HOV lane on the northbound I-405 between the I-10 and US-101 Freeways
Remove and replace the Skirball Center Dr, Sunset Bl and Mulholland Dr bridges
Realign 27 on and off-ramps
Widen 13 existing underpasses and structures
Construct approximately 18 miles of retaining wall and sound wall

Link: http://www.metro.net/projects/I-405/


Some sources:
http://www.metro.net/projects/I-405/
http://www.facebook.com/405project?sk=info

Some news:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/carmaggedon-405-closure-traffic-freeway-impressive-start.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1025940--massive-l-a-freeway-construction-project-begins
http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/work-begins-on-1-billion-i-405-99562.aspx

Some photo:
PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/la-0716-carmageddon06.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/la-0716-carmageddon02.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/la-0716-carmageddon03.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/la-0716-carmageddon05.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/carmageddon-friday2.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/carmageddon-friday3.jpg

PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/carmageddon-friday5.jpg

Some renders:
http://i55.tinypic.com/11s13t5.jpg
Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=337175864945&set=a.337174889945.55695.197583884945&type=1

http://i53.tinypic.com/25jhyjb.jpg
Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=337174924945&set=a.337174889945.55695.197583884945&type=1

http://i52.tinypic.com/xlgwlv.jpg
Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=354845969945&set=a.337173989945.55694.197583884945&type=1

Oops - Didn't read the whole thread.

Cool info, lafreak. But your second source link is from Washington.

Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).

This is what I mean:
http://i.imgur.com/Utxak.jpg

Now that you've pointed this out I've been noticing this alot. Today on North Interstate 35 south of Jarrell, TX (I just passed these two cars at about 75mph):

http://i53.tinypic.com/drdw03.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/102s7ck.jpg

As you pass people on the right and stare into their car as you pass they're just absolutely clueless. :ohno:

Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).

Suppose there are three lanes of traffic and there's someone in the middle one moving more slowly than everyone else. Suppose you're in the middle lane, you come up behind this person, and you decide to pass him to his left. Suppose the person behind you decides to pass him to his right. Now suppose both you (who just passed to the left) and the person who just passed to the right simultaneously decide to switch back into the middle lane now that you're past the slowpoke. Do you see the problem?

In most of the world, including many U.S. states, it is illegal to pass on the right, and also to drive on the left unless you're passing.

Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).

In a 3, 4, 5-lane carriageway, the excessive use of lanes to the left effectively reduces carrying capacity at high speeds, given you can't pass on the right (theoretically).

If people are passing someone on the right, then that someone should not be in the left lane. Couldn't be easier.

ahhh... Lane discipline (and metrication) the two, been there done that, fallback topic(s) for this thread.

http://www.slate.com/id/2299381/pagenum/all/#p2

:banana:

That $ 4 plane ticket was obviously a marketing stunt, nobody would otherwise fly from LAX to Burbank other than just for the heck of it.

ahhh... Lane discipline (and metrication) the two, been there done that, fallback topic(s) for this thread.

Well, apparently we had a new person who didn't get it.

That $ 4 plane ticket was obviously a marketing stunt, nobody would otherwise fly from LAX to Burbank other than just for the heck of it.

LAX? I read, in the New York Times yesterday I think, that someone was offering $4 flights between Burbank and Long Beach. Which might not be that unreasonable in the circumstances, although I wouldn't do it myself.

LAX? I read, in the New York Times yesterday I think, that someone was offering $4 flights between Burbank and Long Beach. Which might not be that unreasonable in the circumstances, although I wouldn't do it myself.

That makes sense since Jetblue mostly flies into Long Beach.

People are pretty lazy when they have to fly jetliners from one side of town to the other! :nuts:

But I guess anything to avoid the 101...

Carmageddon has been a flop, mostly. Traffic in Google Maps Live Traffic seems to be better than usual in LAX, all highwyas are green, save for a few sectors near Palmdale.

On the contrary, it worked great! Everyone stayed home and there was no traffic chaos, no hours of delay, no fire trucks or ambulances stuck in traffic, no big accidents, no inaccessible public locations. :)

Plus, according to a pal of mine in LA, they reopened the 405 sixteen hours early. :)

On a completely unrelated topic, I-75 in northern Macon is finally being widened, though for now only three miles or so from Pio Nono Ave to beyond US 23/Riverside Drive. The project includes total pavement reconstruction and replacement and realignment of the bridge over Riverside Drive (well, prolly the other bridges, too, but the realignment at Riverside Drive was very apparent when I drove through there last week).

So far, there's no work southward to the I-16 interchange, which IMO is tied with the I-20/I-285 west interchange in Atlanta for the most obsolete interchange in the state. GDOT had designed a new interchange including up fourteen lanes in the I-16 corridor, but I suspect that it'll not be built thusly for a while.

Nice video of I-70 through St. Louis

f5sru9wdSHk

^^

Great video. Looks like St. Louis is totally reconfiguring their Interstate system.

On the contrary, it worked great! Everyone stayed home and there was no traffic chaos, no hours of delay, no fire trucks or ambulances stuck in traffic, no big accidents, no inaccessible public locations. :)

Carmageddon was awesome. LA freeways were EXTREMELY empty (even for a Sunday, no one was driving), it was quiet in the city, plus people posted pictures like this. Something that you will NEVER see.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6022/5948019506_49879f7907_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5942611691_171675f5a3_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5943168898_8281cdbdb8_b.jpg

The next day...

http://www.infrastructurist.com/wp-content/uploads/fix-first.jpg

^^ It seems the HOV lane is congested also.

ROFL @ the guy planking on the highway.

Some shots of the 405 Detour:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6150/5950949412_ec857bd278_z_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6029/5950389077_5003f5145b_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5950949168_0e33c884d2_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6143/5950389215_6a27276ded_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110716-carmageddon-123p.photoblog900.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/chive-on1.jpg?w=920&h=651

Will someone please summarize this for me?

JetBlue offers cheap flights within LA for one day causing no one to drive?

Here's a video flight report of the JetBlue Carmageddon flyover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UkVWIKVxFM

Will someone please summarize this for me?

JetBlue offers cheap flights within LA for one day causing no one to drive?

The sequence of events was the other way around: a major freeway was closed over the weekend for construction; the public was warned for weeks in advance that driving would be a nightmare. This one airline took advantage of the occasion by offering cheap flights between airports in different parts of the area (25 miles/40 km apart, perhaps).

One more funny pic on the 405:

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2011/7/19/11/just-dining-on-the-405-18912-1311088904-7.jpg

The first freeway in Los Angeles turns 71 today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway

The first freeway in Los Angeles turns 71 today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway

I love this freeway. It's VERY fast with a LOT of winding turns. Totally not modern at all (it hasn't changed since it was constructed) but it's so fun to drive.

T11lbhsufvM

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k353/northbayoukid/Going%20Up/OV1.jpg

Great Atlanta night video:

IH4dX3WMoU8

Maybe people who complain about left lane hogs are themselves speeding too much?

Just had to say it. The fast lane isn't for going 85 mph, its for passing cars that have just entered the road.

If you are driving on a long trip and have to go past a town on a bypass, is it wrong to stay in the left lane and travel at little over the proper speed limit so you don't have to repeatedly slow, shift lane, accelerate, every time a truck gets on the highway?

Not trying to be rude or anything... but do we have to talk about lane discipline every five seconds? :bash:

Not trying to be rude or anything... but do we have to talk about lane discipline every five seconds? :bash:

Nope.

Downtown Atlanta:

http://i.imgur.com/yt6JB.jpg

I-94/I-43 in Milwaukee.

PnhI9vpx7vU&

Atlanta is great
http://i.imgur.com/spdX7.jpg

^^Pictures that are too wide to be seen all at once are less so.

If you are driving on a long trip and have to go past a town on a bypass, is it wrong to stay in the left lane and travel at little over the proper speed limit so you don't have to repeatedly slow, shift lane, accelerate, every time a truck gets on the highway?

YES

Yes, that's called driving. If you want to sit in a vehicle without having to do any traffic manoeuvres take the bus or train.

I'm currently asking WSDOT to consider 6-inch (15cm) lane markings and 8-inch (7.6cm) edge lines. Apparently it's been talked about before in WSDOT.

Another thing I'm trying to generate discussion on is the use of all-white pavement markings on dual carriageways. The feds have resisted that, but they recently set minimum retroflectivity standards on the MUTCD and yellow markings are having a much harder time meeting the requirements.

Obviously, all-white pavement markings for all roads are out of the question in the short-term, but there's no reason why dual carriageways can't use all-white markings.

Oddly enough, this seems like exactly what Finland is doing.

But first things first, and in my opinion we need to increase the width of our markings first.

I'm currently asking WSDOT to consider 6-inch (15cm) lane markings and 8-inch (7.6cm) edge lines. Apparently it's been talked about before in WSDOT.
In this economy, forget about it. They will simply not want to spend more money on paint. I remember that I-80 in Nevada had much wider lane marking than other states, but the corresponding regulations have been there for a while too.

In this economy, forget about it. They will simply not want to spend more money on paint. I remember that I-80 in Nevada had much wider lane marking than other states, but the corresponding regulations have been there for a while too.

You never know. Pavement marking costs can vary greatly, even for the same type of pavement marking. I've seen costs of raised pavement markings (botts dots/turtles) vary by a magnitude as high as two times for different agencies.

Not to mention, the profiled markings that WSDOT uses costs a great deal more than regular flat plastic markings.



I'm going to send this in:

For lane markings:
• Flat 6 inches instead of profiled 4 inches
• 20 feet in length with 40 feet spacing (1:2 ratio) instead of 15 feet in length with 45 feet spacing (1:3 ratio). Reduces gap and increases visibility
• Use extra length/visibility of lane markings to compensate for elimination of profiled markings and reflectors.

For edge markings:
• Flat 12-inch right edge, flat 12-inch left edge, or
• Flat 12-inch right edge, flat 8-inch left edge, or (right edge line wider than left edge line because drivers sit on the left side of the car, making right edge line more difficult to see, especially on crowned roadways), or
• Flat 8-inch right edge, flat 8-inch left edge
• White (preferred) or yellow (standard) left edge markings

Possible cost savings through:
• Elimination of RPMs and reflectors
• Elimination of profiled markings
• Possible reduction in maintenance costs due to more visible markings that maintain visibility for a longer period
• Use of white left-edge markings retains retroflectivity longer than yellow markings
• Snow-plow safe

Qualitative benefits:
• Improved visibility for all drivers, especially older drivers
• Improved visibility during adverse weather conditions
• Elimination of profiled markings reduces “shadow” caused by raised bumps, improving visibility and reducing costs
• Reduces motorist’s reliance on vibrations to stay in lane and places emphasis on attention to driving and situational awareness.
• Reverses trend of motorists becoming “too used” to vibrations to stay in lane, leading them to take attention off the road.
• Allows profiled markings to be used as special emphasis tools only in necessary conditions (tunnels, narrow lanes, etc.)

If you are driving on a long trip and have to go past a town on a bypass, is it wrong to stay in the left lane and travel at little over the proper speed limit so you don't have to repeatedly slow, shift lane, accelerate, every time a truck gets on the highway?

Why, yes, it is wrong. You can mitigate the wrongness by yielding to faster cars coming up behind you, thus not being a left lane hog.

.......

Having a white line on the left side of a divided highway would increase visibility, but only slightly, and more importantly, the yellow line makes it far easier to distinguish at a glance which side of the road is which without needing additional signage or arrow markings.

Having a white line on the left side of a divided highway would increase visibility, but only slightly, and more importantly, the yellow line makes it far easier to distinguish at a glance which side of the road is which without needing additional signage or arrow markings.

I beg to differ. Yellow markings wear out much sooner than white ones and have lower retroflectivity.

Washington State highways in urban areas have carpool lanes, on which an 8-inch line is used to separate it from other lanes. So 8-inch white on the right, and 4-inch yellow on the left. The yellow is practically non-existent after a few months of use, especially in adverse weather conditions and during night-time. In my experience, it almost seems like the 8-inch white line of the HOV lane becomes the new edge line.

The second point about yellow being used to distinguish direction of traffic is a non-issue when it comes to highways. On-ramps have do-not-enter signs, and will continue to be marked with yellow on the left. Not to mention, all raised reflective markings (cat's eyes) shine red when you go the opposite way.

By the time you enter a highway the wrong-way, you've already missed a lot of signage, and you're unlikely to notice that the yellow paint is on your right side.

Zaphod,
The behaviour you describe could result in two small fines - one small for small speeding and another small for not sticking to the right lane.

In Poland it was often that drivers stuck to the left lane - but if the lane discipline is respected, the traffic flow is much moore smoother - ie you are able to drive within the maximum permitted speed for a larger part of drive than you used to be able, seen it on the Polish A4 motorway (not congested) myself.

The Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago (I-90/I-94):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/2721964632_02e044954b_b.jpg
Dan Ryan Expressway & Skyline from 35th Street (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zol87/2721964632/) by zol87 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zol87/)

^^
Cool!

95 coming into Center City Philly

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/5944126555_3d0cafc88b_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/runway27r/5944126555/)
Philly Skyline (but NOT my RAV4) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/runway27r/5944126555/) by PHLAIRLINE.COM (http://www.flickr.com/people/runway27r/), on Flickr

The view of the skyline from the Dan Ryan is an amazing way to make a grand entrance into the city.

I-90/I-94 West was pretty backed up today around 1:00 PM.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5259/img01691v.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2519/img01711.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8969/img01761e.jpg

^^
Cool!

95 coming into Center City Philly

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/5944126555_3d0cafc88b_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/runway27r/5944126555/)
Philly Skyline (but NOT my RAV4) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/runway27r/5944126555/) by PHLAIRLINE.COM (http://www.flickr.com/people/runway27r/), on Flickr

Ah, home.

I-90/I-94 West was pretty backed up today around 1:00 PM.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5259/img01691v.jpg



That "accident investigation site left 1 mile" intrigues me. Does that mean if you have an accident (but are still able to move) you're supposed to keep going until that point and there's a little parking area there?

^^
Yep.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.872597,-87.644742&spn=0.009523,0.021973&t=k&z=16

The area referred to by that sign is the paved area in the median.

There are other such areas scattered around Chicagoland.

Here in Wisconsin, WisDOT is installing investigation areas on various interchange off-ramps, especially in more urbanized areas.

Oh yea, the view of the Chicago skyline from that section of the Dan Ryan - at night - is one of my very favorite views from the entire interstate system.

:cheers:

In the opposite direction, the inbound Kennedy Expressway (I-90/94) near the Ohio/Ontario feeder interchange is pretty good, too, as the highway looks like it is heading directly into the side of a mountain of tall buildings.

Mike

^^In some places in the Northeast you now get "Fender bender? Move cars to side of road" or words to that effect.

The accident investigation sites are used also for vehicles that can't be moved but are towed to those sites if/when a wrecker needs to show up.

Here if theres a reason to call the police, you're not meant to move the cars

Here if theres a reason to call the police, you're not meant to move the cars
Here, especially in congested places, if there are no injuries the priority is to get the highway cleared and reopened as quickly as possible. If you can, move the cars to a place where they will be out of the way and the cops will investigate everything there.

Mike

In Holland on matrix signs they urge drivers to find a lay-by when a small accident resulted in collateral damage only.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xYspmCFMS6U&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xYspmCFMS6U&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

And a reminder of what could have been:

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KS4ywyVP6I&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KS4ywyVP6I&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Construction of a new Inner Belt bridge on I-90 in Cleveland.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6029/5930654855_ed3360eb25_b.jpg
Pier 9 Stems (http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerbelt/5930654855/in/photostream) by innerbelt (http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerbelt/)

Can someone provide an in-depth explanation on how we can improve highway capacity by implementing lane discipline?

Can someone provide an in-depth explanation on how we can improve highway capacity by implementing lane discipline?

By making the left lane a strictly "passing only" land and making the right lane for slower vehicles it improves highway capacity by establishing a sense of order and making the highways safer as a result.

Can Lane Discipline Decrease the Sensitivity of Freeway Fatality Rates to Increases in Speed Limits? (http://thinkmetric.com/pres/autobahn/LaneDiscipline.pdf)

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country

Lane discipline just came up on Car Talk; a grad student who doesn't like driving, isn't comfortable above 65 mph, but has to commute 70 miles on I-65 in Indiana this summer. So she sets the cruise control to 65 and stays in the right lane "with all the trucks." The hosts, after establishing that there are two lanes each direction, said, well everyone's supposed to be in that lane unless they're passing.... So the concept is not unknown here. :-)

(Her specific question was that someone had told her she could improve fuel efficiency by "drafting" - as they use the term in bike racing - behind a truck. The hosts thought you'd need to be so close to the truck it wouldn't be safe.)

Talking of lots of trucks, there are times I wish we had a Sunday truck ban like Germany.

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country

Yes, but you only hear about spectacular 50- and 60- vehicle pileups in Europe. 'Cause they're all tailgating while they drive too fast. (I'm being facetious.)

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country

Notice the :crazy: number for Spain, but it is explained because then we had few km of motorways/freeways, now we have a lot more. (I'm wondering if they have included autovías on that number...)

Back on topic, I'm very surprised to see a urban freeway empty. I bet the 405 in LA area is never empty.

Notice the :crazy: number for Spain, but it is explained because then we had few km of motorways/freeways, now we have a lot more. (I'm wondering if they have included autovías on that number...)

I think that is a mistake, it's way too far off to be a statistical outlier. I think they included only the vehicle miles on autopistas, but included all fatalities on autopistas + autovías. Even though Spain has improved its traffic safety since 2003, it surely wasn't THAT bad. (15 times the German rate)

Yes, but you only hear about spectacular 50- and 60- vehicle pileups in Europe. 'Cause they're all tailgating while they drive too fast. (I'm being facetious.)

Of course you hear only about the multi-vehicle pileups. How often do you think a single-vehicle accident in Europe makes the news in the U.S.? This only happened in 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diana,_Princess_of_Wales) I think.

^^Was that a single-vehicle accident, or Mercedes and scooter?

Now what was it that happened to Queen Beatrix a couple of years ago? Was that an attempted assassination? I don't remember.

(I meant, that sort of thing doesn't seem to happen as much here. Like riots at soccer games. (Still being facetious! ;-) ))

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a0Lhk821xns&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a0Lhk821xns&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

^^

I love Interstate 10 between Houston and San Antonio. Just wish they would raise the speed limit to 80.

Meadow Lake Wind Farm on I-65 in northwest Indiana. Nice place to drive through.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7439/img0203uc.jpg

Back on topic, I'm very surprised to see a urban freeway empty. I bet the 405 in LA area is never empty.

Well it was during Carmagedon. :cheers:

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country
It's wrong to make comparisons like that. It assumes that fatalities should be a function of kilometers traveled. Just top of my head I can think of "average distance traveled per trip" as just one other variable that would affect it (it might not, but it's plausible).

I think that is a mistake, it's way too far off to be a statistical outlier. I think they included only the vehicle miles on autopistas, but included all fatalities on autopistas + autovías. Even though Spain has improved its traffic safety since 2003, it surely wasn't THAT bad. (15 times the German rate)

It IS a mistake, they just dropped the decimal point. Look at this other page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

^^Was that a single-vehicle accident, or Mercedes and scooter?

Now what was it that happened to Queen Beatrix a couple of years ago? Was that an attempted assassination? I don't remember.

(I meant, that sort of thing doesn't seem to happen as much here. Like riots at soccer games. (Still being facetious! ;-) ))

Does foreign stuff like that reach the news in the US?!

P.S That pileup in Madison made the news here a couple of years ago, but the recent one in Portugal did not reach the news in the UK

Meadow Lake Wind Farm on I-65 in northwest Indiana. Nice place to drive through.

I remember driving through there, looks so cool at sunset. Excuse the quality, taking a picture with a DSLR going 75mph isn't easy lol.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/45552_1572339076676_1481493653_1486080_1192093_n.jpg

^^ (This is pointing to Daniel, not I-275)
Depends what it is. (The riots outside Paris in, what, 2005 got lots of coverage. So, of course, do your long-suffering head of state and her interesting relatives). But I read French and Belgian sites.

I remember driving through there, looks so cool at sunset. Excuse the quality, taking a picture with a DSLR going 75mph isn't easy lol.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/45552_1572339076676_1481493653_1486080_1192093_n.jpg

Did they just install those windmills along I-65? I remember driving on that Interstate three/four years ago and I don't remember them being there?

My pic is from Aug 12, 2010 so its possible.

^^ Okay, that explains it, thanks.

Anyways here is a cool shot of I-35W in Minneapolis with the skyline in the background.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1025/689180369_a43eaf6001_b.jpg
Minneapolis skyline from my car #1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dan_h/689180369/) by Dan H (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dan_h/)

You guys misunderstood me. Yes, obviously under normal circumstances you only drive in the right lane of a 4 lane divided highway unless overtaking a slower vehicle. Those are basic road rules. Anticipating that there will be more slow traffic in the right lane ahead and getting over the left earlier so merging vehicles can get on to me is perfectly in accordance with the intent of the law here. Also, the speed limit still mostly applies to overtaking so if someone is lawfully occupying the left lane for passing purposes and you come up on them, they aren't being a hog you are speeding.

Anyways here is a cool shot of I-35W in Minneapolis with the skyline in the background.
That is great shot, almost all freeways that approach downtown Minnie (execpt eastbound I-94) offer a some sort of good view of the urban core. IMHO

iLSRVaqG5-o

Eastbound I-70 from Dillon, CO to Silver Plume, CO, though Eisenhower/Johnson Tunnel, including the highest point on the I-system - 3401 m (11158 ft) at the west portal.

Also
OO_tttGEEMo

Westbound I-90 from the southeast end of Keechelus Lake to just southeast of Riverbend in Washington, across Snoqualmie Pass. Although not mentioned, the summit is at about 2:40 and works by WSDOT to upgrade more of the highway to six lanes are visible in the second minute or so. I am expecting these upgrades to ultimately continue on to I-82 at Ellensburg, WA. Note the viaduct on the westbound side of I-90 west of the pass.

Enjoy!

:cheers:

Mike

You guys misunderstood me. Yes, obviously under normal circumstances you only drive in the right lane of a 4 lane divided highway unless overtaking a slower vehicle. Those are basic road rules. Anticipating that there will be more slow traffic in the right lane ahead and getting over the left earlier so merging vehicles can get on to me is perfectly in accordance with the intent of the law here. Also, the speed limit still mostly applies to overtaking so if someone is lawfully occupying the left lane for passing purposes and you come up on them, they aren't being a hog you are speeding.

I agree as long as you are actively overtaking another vehicle in the right lane. If you are cruising in the left lane at a speed generally faster than the vehicles in the right lane while there is still space for you yield to a car coming from behind you, then it is hogging the left lane to not yield to faster traffic under the guise of overtaking a line of ten vehicles in the right lane going a bit slower than you.

Did they just install those windmills along I-65? I remember driving on that Interstate three/four years ago and I don't remember them being there?

You're right, the wind farm along I-65 in northwest Indiana was built in the last 2 years.

I made this road trip (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Lynnwood,+WA&daddr=Ocean+Shores,+WA+to:Pacific+Beach,+Moclips,+WA+to:Forks,+WA+to:Lynnwood,+WA&hl=en&ll=47.530184,-123.159485&spn=1.437217,3.56781&sll=47.191929,-124.174004&sspn=0.090405,0.222988&geocode=FYKw2QIdhZ61-CkRiQedxQSQVDEWeEf8ZlJzbg%3BFQPDzAIdg4aZ-Ckjd3t1WhGSVDGj-oLxY3kJcA%3BFQ1a0AIdHc-Y-CkfASynvg2SVDFdh9hPozOeag%3BFROq2wIdMQeW-CnV-tFzMD6OVDHypZGSQkWB_w%3BFYKw2QIdhZ61-CkRiQedxQSQVDEWeEf8ZlJzbg&mra=ls&z=9) and I noticed that the interstates are in much worse condition than the state highways. The road from Ocean Shores to Kingston (before the ferry to Edmonds) was more than perfect. They were even repaving a really good section of the 101 highway with new asphalt which is completely unnecessary. There are a lot of other roads that need to be repaved but they don't even touch them. They repave nice roads instead :bash: Here are some photos from hwy 101. 99% of this highway looks like that. 109 and 104 were perfect too. It's really fun to drive on such surface. I can't understand why roads and highways in small towns are maintained really well but roads and highways in large cities are much worse. Traffic is not the only reason

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--ZhQBJXCIk8/TkGjdAVwc0I/AAAAAAAASp4/m_UZBU3C1I0/s800/P1050787.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nLdSWZYcpps/TkGkYzwOeUI/AAAAAAAAS68/w_JfzjgJvoU/s800/P1050933.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OFt8Zps5g8g/TkGkZTYB8xI/AAAAAAAAS7E/-6xvAqYpGWM/s800/P1050935.JPG

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/449052129_542ba9b0b1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nrbelex/449052129/)
Bright Atlanta (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nrbelex/449052129/) by Nrbelex (http://www.flickr.com/people/nrbelex/), on Flickr

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/449031509_4d8b9845e5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nrbelex/449031509/)
Clogged Arteries (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nrbelex/449031509/) by Nrbelex (http://www.flickr.com/people/nrbelex/), on Flickr

A nice video of the Eisenhower Pass (I-70) in Colorado.

iLSRVaqG5-o

^^
I posted that one on the previous page.

;)

Mike

^^
I posted that one on the previous page.

;)

Mike

Ah, OK, sorry - didn't see it!

It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Sprinter

:D

101/I-280 interchange Bernal Heights San Francisco

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5936060026_0ceba676d0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vacawoody/5936060026/)
blue hour in da hood... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vacawoody/5936060026/) by woodwork's (http://www.flickr.com/people/vacawoody/), on Flickr

It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...

My uncle has one as an RV. He's generally pleased with the "van" part of it, designed by Mercedes (he pretty much ignores the Dodge badge on it) apart from two things: One, he only figured out how to turn on the air conditioner yesterday, and two, the radio always assumes that whoever tries to turn it on is actually trying to steal it, and so the anti-theft stuff always gets in the way of actually using it.

The "house" part of it, complete with kitchen and bathroom (in a Sprinter!) was made by Airstream, which is supposedly The Best (he likes that term), is actually very poorly made, stuff's breaking all the time, nothing ever works, etc.

What I find interesting is how near motorways reach downtowns in USA. In my country motorways integrate to streets several kilometers before downtown.

What I find interesting is how near motorways reach downtowns in USA. In my country motorways integrate to streets several kilometers before downtown.

That's what I love about Interstate highways, they take you to the heart of the city. It seems though that sacrifices were probably made to make that happen like removing houses and other buildings.

^^I was about to say - warning, generalization coming - that at some point the public in many cities (at least in cities that still have in-town residential neighborhoods, often "gentrified" and lively) started rebelling against this sort of thing. Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.

The UK was planning loads of US style city centre motorways during the post war reconstruction but the public didn't let them, the only major cities where a little bit more than a fraction of it were done are Belfast and Glasgow. The rest was eventually stopped in Glasgow too, and they did about half in the Belfast Metro Area (they did the M1 and M2, but not the M3 to Bangor and the other one to Carrickfergus) and not so much in the rest of NI because NI was de-devolved in 1973, and it was the Northern Irish government creating the motorways there.

Imagine London with two more ring roads and the radial motorways getting into Central London!

The Fort Pitt Tunnel and Fort Pitt Bridge on I-376 heading into downtown Pittsburgh.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/4163609853_391bf33801_z.jpg?zz=1
Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougtone/4163609853/in/photostream/) by dougtone (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougtone/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/4164369906_5678d03ee1_o.jpg
Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougtone/4164369906/) by dougtone (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougtone/)

Once you leave the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading east into downtown you immediately find yourself on the bridge with a view of the skyline creating one of the most dynamic entrances into the city.

vI4NoeD7SsA&

^^That is pretty cool!

It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...
They are the best vans to use for business.

^^I was about to say - warning, generalization coming - that at some point the public in many cities (at least in cities that still have in-town residential neighborhoods, often "gentrified" and lively) started rebelling against this sort of thing. Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.

You are absolutely right. Take Chicago for instance, when freeway building into the city began in the 50's and 60's, which was when inner city meant slums to be torn down, so might as well build a freeway through it. My brother made a killing in real estate in the 1980's and 1990's in Chicago buying residential buildings in crappy inner-city neighborhoods that went upscale - areas where you could never build a freeway now (and neighborhoods that I could not afford to live in).

The UK was planning loads of US style city centre motorways during the post war reconstruction but the public didn't let them, the only major cities where a little bit more than a fraction of it were done are Belfast and Glasgow. The rest was eventually stopped in Glasgow too, and they did about half in the Belfast Metro Area (they did the M1 and M2, but not the M3 to Bangor and the other one to Carrickfergus) and not so much in the rest of NI because NI was de-devolved in 1973, and it was the Northern Irish government creating the motorways there.

Imagine London with two more ring roads and the radial motorways getting into Central London!
Don't forget the Aston Express way from Spaghetti (M6, M42) straight into the city centre of Birmingham which has motorway status.

There were (or maybe still are) plans to build another outer M25 around London which would cover northern Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, northern Essex, Cambridgeshire, Kent between Maidstone and Ashford, Surrey and perhaps northern Hampshire, Berkshire and Buckingamshire. It would certainly relief the current "inner" M25, especially with foreign freight coming from Dover going to the rest of the country. And local police forces are sick to the teeth with foreign left-hand drive lorries side-swapping cars all the time. Especially the Germans and Poles have turned it into a hobby.

There were (or maybe still are) plans to build another outer M25 around London which would cover northern Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, northern Essex, Cambridgeshire, Kent between Maidstone and Ashford, Surrey and perhaps northern Hampshire, Berkshire and Buckingamshire.No, there never was, other than by the ABD. There were schemes designed to parallel the M25 (both inside - A312) and outside (A404, A331, A120, A130) to relieve bits of it, but never a plan beyond that. The Oxford to East Coast Ports road (not planned for M25 relieve, but access to the South Midlands/Varsity Arc area) was the most extensive and, with the M31, the only one planned for long distance traffic.It would certainly relief the current "inner" M25, especially with foreign freight coming from Dover going to the rest of the country.The M25 would get relieved, but even with 'POLO' (proposed outer London orbital) that actually touched on the Surrey/Kent section of M25, still not the foreign traffic from Dover much - only that going to the M4 and south. Maybe.

I read about it in The Times, complete with a map on how it was going to look like. So someone with status beyond Hyacinth Bucket (Bouquet) must have mentioned it somewhere. And with a bridge or tunnel somewhere between Maidstone and Ashford it would relief north bound traffic as well as it would connect the M11, A1 and M1 further north. It would congest the M1 a bit further though, as there is no immediate need to use the M40 for the North West.

Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.

The Fort Pitt Tunnel and Fort Pitt Bridge on I-379 heading into downtown Pittsburgh.

Once you leave the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading east into downtown you immediately find yourself on the bridge with a view of the skyline creating one of the most dynamic entrances into the city.

vI4NoeD7SsA&

Furthering this discussion, the Ft. Pitt Tunnel and the interstates into the core of Pittsburgh are projects that would never have been considered in this day and age. If former I-279/now I-376 and I-279 were even considered now, let alone built, it likely would have gone around Mt. Washington and crossed the Ohio River downstream from downtown before resuming the current course. It also would not have connected with 376 (which also would mean 376 would still be a true spur).

Don't forget the Aston Express way from Spaghetti (M6, M42) straight into the city centre of Birmingham which has motorway status.



Oh yes, I haven't been up that way since I was seven or so, but I used to go through there to get to Holyhead and Dun Laoghaire or Dublin North Wall quite a lot, I remember the last trip very well, it took us a couple of hours to get through Birmingham :lol:

Furthering this discussion, the Ft. Pitt Tunnel and the interstates into the core of Pittsburgh are projects that would never have been considered in this day and age. If former I-279/now I-376 and I-279 were even considered now, let alone built, it likely would have gone around Mt. Washington and crossed the Ohio River downstream from downtown before resuming the current course. It also would not have connected with 376 (which also would mean 376 would still be a true spur).

Yup, alot of Interstates would not be built in this day and age just because of enviromental clearances, the amount of revitalized neighborhoods that are now in the path of the propesed freeway, etc. Even I-95 in Connecticut would not exist because it was originaly built on top of wetlands on the Long Island Sound and with dense neighborhoods surrounding the freeway, there is essentially no room for widening it despite carrying 130,000-200,000 VPD between the New York state line and New Haven.

Yup, alot of Interstates would not be built in this day and age just because of enviromental clearances, the amount of revitalized neighborhoods that are now in the path of the propesed freeway, etc. Even I-95 in Connecticut would not exist because it was originaly built on top of wetlands on the Long Island Sound and with dense neighborhoods surrounding the freeway, there is essentially no room for widening it despite carrying 130,000-200,000 VPD between the New York state line and New Haven.

I think that we've come to the age of underground freeways since eminent domain has become so unpopular. It's probably for the best, but the gas tax needs to be done away with and replaced with toll roads since tunnels are way more expensive than surface roads.

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country

Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?

I made this road trip (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Lynnwood,+WA&daddr=Ocean+Shores,+WA+to:Pacific+Beach,+Moclips,+WA+to:Forks,+WA+to:Lynnwood,+WA&hl=en&ll=47.530184,-123.159485&spn=1.437217,3.56781&sll=47.191929,-124.174004&sspn=0.090405,0.222988&geocode=FYKw2QIdhZ61-CkRiQedxQSQVDEWeEf8ZlJzbg%3BFQPDzAIdg4aZ-Ckjd3t1WhGSVDGj-oLxY3kJcA%3BFQ1a0AIdHc-Y-CkfASynvg2SVDFdh9hPozOeag%3BFROq2wIdMQeW-CnV-tFzMD6OVDHypZGSQkWB_w%3BFYKw2QIdhZ61-CkRiQedxQSQVDEWeEf8ZlJzbg&mra=ls&z=9) and I noticed that the interstates are in much worse condition than the state highways. The road from Ocean Shores to Kingston (before the ferry to Edmonds) was more than perfect. They were even repaving a really good section of the 101 highway with new asphalt which is completely unnecessary. There are a lot of other roads that need to be repaved but they don't even touch them. They repave nice roads instead :bash: Here are some photos from hwy 101. 99% of this highway looks like that. 109 and 104 were perfect too. It's really fun to drive on such surface. I can't understand why roads and highways in small towns are maintained really well but roads and highways in large cities are much worse. Traffic is not the only reason

LA is revitalizing a lot of its freeways right now with some thing I've never seen before. They patch up the really bad spots with cement and then kind of gloss over the whole freeway with this substance that seems to fade within a few months. It's nice when it's done but it doesn't seem very stable. They are also redoing the asphalt in the emergency lanes and on and off ramps. Anyone have any info on this road repair technique? Just another clue, the road gets very dusty the morning after this is applied.

Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?

Do we really have significantly more signage than other countries?

I find that hard to imagine with the overflow of signs being displayed in the UK and Germany.

Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?

In Europe generally, getting a driver's license is much more difficult and expensive a process. So they graduate better drivers than the US, and drivers who cherish their privilege more. In the US, driving is seen much more as a 'right', (like procreation ;)) that anyone regardless of their skills and abilities, is entitled to.

That's what I love about Interstate highways, they take you to the heart of the city. It seems though that sacrifices were probably made to make that happen like removing houses and other buildings.

Those things DID happen- there is nothing "probable" about it.

Interstates ruined cities- they destroyed urban fabric and minority neighborhoods. The least valuable and most run down parts of cities are located along freeways for good reason.

PA turnpike is the worst road in America. Some interstates in NY are bad but there is no comparison IMO.