By MIKE OLIVEIRA
Sunday, November 6, 2005 Posted at 9:54 PM EST
Canadian Press

Toronto — Maclean's magazine released its annual ranking of Canadian universities Sunday and for the first time in 10 years, the University of Toronto has lost the distinction of being called the top medical school in Canada. Now it shares the honour for top marks with McGill University.

The top rankings are identical to last year's in the undergraduate category, with St. Francis Xavier University first, followed by Mount Allison University and Acadia University.

The University of Waterloo took top spot once again in the comprehensive category, while the University of Victoria leaped past the University of Guelph into second place.

The annual university rankings appear in the new issue of Maclean's, which states the ratings are more important than ever given the current climate of inadequate education funding.

The findings should be a message to Prime Minister Paul Martin that the government needs to do more for post-secondary education, said Ann Dowsett Johnston, editor-at-large for Maclean's.

“This is a public-policy wakeup call ... and I think it's especially important right now, given that since 1987 we've seen a 50 per cent growth in enrolment in Canadian universities and only a 7 per cent growth in hiring of faculty,” Ms. Dowsett Johnston said.

“We've seen much, much more crowded classrooms and a strain on all sorts of things.”

She said the med-school tie between McGill and the University of Toronto has less to do with actual changes compared to last year and more to do with the recent challenges faced by Ontario universities.

She said that of the 17 Ontario universities, eight fell in this year's rankings, seven held steady and only two improved.

“What this reflects is enormous growth, (no) huge investment and the universities are having a lot of trouble,” she said.

Ms. Dowsett Johnston also blamed the slip on the double cohort — which caused enrolment to spike last year when Ontario eliminated Grade 13 or the OAC year — and the fact that 40 per cent of university students go to school in Ontario.

The rankings are based on data in up to 24 categories including enrolment grades, class sizes, calibre of faculty and quality of libraries.

The annual issue is often used by parents and students to research prospective schools but the Canadian Federation of Students said the rankings are more about selling magazines than comparing universities.

“Quality is so often such a hard thing to determine and define. Any attempt to really define that quality is flawed from the beginning,” said CFS national chairperson George Soule.

Ms. Dowsett Johnston countered that the rankings are meant to be a guide and are not an arbiter of which schools are the best.

“It isn't really meant to tell students or parents where you should choose to go to university, as much as to say how are universities faring.”

Mr. Soule did say that if there's one thing the rankings prove, it's that high tuition fees are not directly linked to a better education.

“If you look at a place like Dalhousie University with some of the highest tuition fees in the country they actually rated quite low on the scale (at No. 13 on the medical school list), versus an institution like McGill in Quebec, where tuition fees have been frozen for close to the last 35 years,” he said.

“I think if anything, Maclean's numbers show high tuition fees do not actually result in a higher quality (of education).”

Whatever, it's a forced ranking, and here in Canada the difference in quality between the first place school and the last place school is negligible. It's like that episode of Malcolm in the Middle where the teacher in Malcolm's gifted class started ranking the kids from best to worst and the difference in marks from one kid to the next was multiple fractions of a percent -- my point is that even the last placed kid in the class was still gifted!

The Globe and Mail's 'University Report Card' just came out a few days a go and it gave very high marks to some of the schools that don't 'appear' to fare that well in the Maclean's ranking. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/reportcard

I have both...but which do I follow.

I have both...but which do I follow.

follow neither... your brain knows best. research which damn university is good for you and appeals to you. Which university you think will give you the best knowledge for your future career.

Just days after the Globe and Mail ranked Western at the top of Canada's universities, the annual Macleans rankings are out today.


In the Medical-Doctoral category, the The University of Western Ontario is ranked third, the same as last year.

McGill and the University of Toronto are tied for top spot.

It's the first time in 10 years that the U of T has had to share its first place ranking.

In the Comprehensive school category, the University of Waterloo is ranked first.

Guelph comes in third, while The University of Windsor finishes last out of the list of eleven institutions.

For Macleans' complete report, click here. :cheers:

Ranking
University
Last Year

1 St. Francis Xavier (read our profile) 1

2 Mount Allison 2

3 Acadia 3

4 UNBC 7

5 Bishop’s 4

6 St. Thomas 10

7 Saint Mary's 9

*8 UPEI 8

*8 Trent 6

10 Wilfrid Laurier 5

11 Winnipeg 11

12 Mount Saint Vincent 15

13 Lethbridge 12

14 Brock 13

15 Moncton 17*

*16 Brandon 14

*16 Lakehead 17*

18 Ryerson 16

19 Laurentian 19

20 Cape Breton 21

21 Nipissing 20

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Ranking
University
Last Year

1 Waterloo (read our profile) 1

2 Victoria 3

*3 Guelph 2

*3 Simon Fraser 4

5 Memorial 5

6 Regina 6

7 New Brunswick 7

*8 Carleton 9*

*8 Concordia 9*

10 York 8

11 Windsor 11

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Ranking
University
Last Year

*1 McGill (read our profile) 2

*1 Toronto (read our profile) 1

3 Western 3

4 UBC 4

5 Queen's 5

6 Alberta 6

7 Montréal 7

8 Laval 11

9 Sherbrooke 8*

10 Saskatchewan 10

11 McMaster 8*

12 Ottawa 12

13 Dalhousie 13

14 Calgary 14

15 Manitoba 15

University rankings methodology

How the annual Maclean's survey is compiled

ANN DOWSETT JOHNSTON and MARY DWYER


Full index here.


The Maclean's rankings offer students and parents a rare view into the ivory tower -- and a unique opportunity to make informed decisions on the comparative strengths of public universities across Canada. On behalf of those readers, we ask a number of key questions related to the undergraduate experience. Where are the brightest first-year students? Where will you find the smallest classes? Where are you most likely to have access to tenured faculty? Where will you find the richest library resources? Which university has made the largest commitment to student services or scholarships and bursaries? Which university has the best reputation for quality and innovation? Maclean's asks all this, and much more.

HOW THE RANKING IS DONE
In April, a detailed questionnaire was circulated to the universities. Throughout the spring and summer, we collected information on student and faculty awards from the administering agencies and sent out thousands of reputational surveys across the country. Throughout the fall, we spent several weeks collating and checking the data. Consulting statisticians from McDougall Scientific Ltd. performed the final calculations.





HOW WE PLACE THE UNIVERSITIES IN PEER GROUPS
Using such factors as research funding, diversity of offerings and the range of Ph.D. programs to define peer groupings, Maclean's places each university in one of three categories. Primarily Undergraduate universities are largely focused on undergraduate education, with relatively few graduate programs. Those in the Comprehensive category have a significant amount of research activity and a wide range of programs at the undergraduate and graduate levels, including professional degrees. Medical-Doctoral universities offer a broad range of Ph.D. programs and research, as well as medical schools.

In reporting to Maclean's, universities include all federated and affiliated institutions. The magazine does not rank schools with fewer than 1,000 full-time students or those with a strictly religious or specialized mission.

HOW WE EVALUATE
The universities in the three categories are treated as separate but equal. Maclean's ranks the schools on a range of factors in six broad groupings (weightings are in parentheses). In total, Primarily Undergraduate universities are ranked on 22 performance measures, Comprehensive universities on 23 and Medical-Doctoral universities on 24 -- resulting in slightly different weightings for some performance measures.

STUDENT BODY
(22% to 23% of final score)
Students are enriched by the calibre of their peers. For that reason, Maclean's collects the incoming students' average high-school grades (11%), and the proportion of those with averages of 75 per cent or higher (2%). This count includes only those students whose secondary-school averages or CÉGEP scores served as the basis of admission. With the exception of CÉGEP scores, no conversion formula is applied to incoming grade averages to adjust for provincial differences or varying admission policies.

As a measure of drawing power, we count the proportion of out-of-province students in the first-year undergraduate class (1.5%). The percentage of international students in the first-year undergraduate class (0.5%) is measured as well, acknowledging the benefits such diversity brings to the classroom. The percentage of international students at the graduate level (1%) is also measured for Comprehensive and Medical-Doctoral universities.

In taking stock of retention rates (2%), Maclean's asks for the percentage of first-year students who return in second year, either full-time or part-time. While many factors can affect a student's choice not to return -- personal considerations, or a decision to transfer to a professional program unavailable at their home university -- student retention, on the whole, reflects a university's success in keeping its students on course. Maclean's also measures graduation rates (2%): the percentage of full-time undergraduates in their second year who go on to graduate from the institution within one year of the expected time period.

In addition, Maclean's collects data on the success of the student body at winning national academic awards (3%) over a five-year period.

CLASSES (17% to 18%)
The rankings take stock of the entire distribution of class sizes at the first- and second-year levels (7.5% for Primarily Undergraduate universities, 7% for the other two categories), as well as the third- and fourth-year levels (7.5% for the Primarily Undergraduate category, 7% for the others). Maclean's measures the percentage of students in classes in each of the following class-size ranges: 1 to 25; 26 to 50; 51 to 100; 101 to 250; 251 to 500; 501 and higher.

Maclean's also ranks universities on the percentage of first-year classes taught by tenured and tenure-track professors (3%).

FACULTY (17%)
In assessing the calibre of faculty, Maclean's calculates the percentage of faculty with Ph.D.s (3%), and the number who win national awards (3%). In addition, the magazine measures the success of eligible faculty in securing grants from each of the three major federal granting agencies: Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, and the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, as well as the Canada Council. Maclean's takes into account both the number and the dollar value received last year. Social sciences and humanities grants plus Canada Council grants (5.5%) and medical/science grants (5.5%) were tallied as separate indicators.

FINANCES (12%)
This section examines the amount of money available for current expenses per weighted full-time-equivalent student (3.3%), as well as the percentage of the budget spent on student services (4.3%) and scholarships and bursaries (4.3%). When presenting their general operating budget, institutions deducted any funds used to pay off debt.

LIBRARY (12%)
This section assesses the breadth and currency of the collection. Universities received points for the number of volumes and volume equivalents per number of full-time-equivalent students (4% for Primarily Undergraduate and Comprehensive, 3% for Medical-Doctoral). The total holdings measurement was used in the Medical-Doctoral category (1%), acknowledging the importance of extensive on-campus collections in those universities.

As well, Maclean's measured the percentage of a university's operating budget that was allocated to library services (4%) and the percentage of the library budget spent on updating the collection (4%). In acknowledging a shift from the traditional library model to an access model, Maclean's captures spending on electronic resources in both the library expenses and acquisitions measurements.

REPUTATION (19%)
This section reflects a university's reputation with its own graduates, as well as within the community at large. For the reputational survey (16%), respondents rated the universities in three categories: Highest Quality, Most Innovative and Leaders of Tomorrow. Best Overall represents the sum of the scores.

When looking at alumni support, institutions received points for the number -- rather than the value -- of gifts to the university over the past five years (3%).

REPUTATIONAL RESPONSE RATE GROUP RESPONSE RATE
This year, Maclean's solicited the opinion of 11,620 individuals across the country. They included university officials at each ranked institution, high-school principals and guidance counsellors from every province and territory, the heads of a wide variety of national and regional organizations, plus CEOs and recruiters at corporations large and small. The reputational survey is both regional and national, dividing the country into four key areas: the western provinces, Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces. All respondents completed a national survey; university officials, principals and guidance counsellors also completed regional ones.

University Officials 40.3%
High-school Principals 6.2%
Guidance Counsellors 9.3%
CEOs 7.2%
Corporate Recruiters 7.9%
Heads of Organizations 10.4%
TOTAL 11.1%

Whatever, it's a forced ranking, and here in Canada the difference in quality between the first place school and the last place school is negligible. It's like that episode of Malcolm in the Middle where the teacher in Malcolm's gifted class started ranking the kids from best to worst and the difference in marks from one kid to the next was multiple fractions of a percent -- my point is that even the last placed kid in the class was still gifted!

Agreed. I've been a student at Windsor (lower ranked) and UWO (higher ranked). The differences are not all that big in terms of courses and syllabi, textbooks used, professors' knowledge, etc. All Canadian schools are good and they each excel in different areas, you have to choose which one is best for you and your program.

4 of the 10 top medical school are in Quebec... excellent.

These rankings are such a farce. What is the point?

I thought Memorial had a medical program, is there some reason why it didn't qualify for that category?

4 of the 10 top medical school are in Quebec... excellent.
Unfourtunatley many of our doctors move away though so we aren't really benefiting... - which means Quebec taxpayers are partially paying for the tuitions of doctors who don't practice in Quebec... :bash:

4 of the 10 top medical school are in Quebec... excellent.


... and Quebec has the lowest tuition fees in the country. Nice to see that Quebec is making good use of those billions in equilization payments.

Unfourtunatley many of our doctors move away though so we aren't really benefiting... - which means Quebec taxpayers are partially paying for the tuitions of doctors who don't practice in Quebec... :bash:

To where are they moving?

Alberta is one place some are moving too. I should note that the problem with these rankings is the school marks for students yet we dont have standard national tests. Thus the curiculum is different in each province as are the marking. For instance, a friend in Ontario is a great student there, but due to what they take in classes there and the marking methods he was average in Alberta. Thus his 85% there was a 65% in Alberta. There is no adjustments for that in these rankings.

... and Quebec has the lowest tuition fees in the country. Nice to see that Quebec is making good use of those billions in equilization payments.


you are friggin annoying. :bash:

^^ How the pot likes to call the kettles black. LOL.

What I said was completely true. I for one, enjoy seeing how the truth about the world drives all Quebec separatists nuts. With me around, you'd all have to go on Cogentin. ;)

Alberta is one place some are moving too. I should note that the problem with these rankings is the school marks for students yet we dont have standard national tests. Thus the curiculum is different in each province as are the marking. For instance, a friend in Ontario is a great student there, but due to what they take in classes there and the marking methods he was average in Alberta. Thus his 85% there was a 65% in Alberta. There is no adjustments for that in these rankings.

That's very true. Supposedly even our testing for grades 3, 6, and 9 are also harder than most of the country.

^^ How the pot likes to call the kettles black. LOL.

What I said was completely true. I for one, enjoy seeing how the truth about the world drives all Quebec separatists nuts. With me around, you'd all have to go on Cogentin. ;)

What part of this thread is about separatism before you started it?

Agreed. I've been a student at Windsor (lower ranked) and UWO (higher ranked). The differences are not all that big in terms of courses and syllabi, textbooks used, professors' knowledge, etc. All Canadian schools are good and they each excel in different areas, you have to choose which one is best for you and your program.

It's a very good point. I'd say in terms of academic experience, there's not much difference among most Canadian universities. The difference between different faculties in the same school is even more pronounced than same faculty in different universities. My experience also tells me that student culture of different universities can be quite huge (like campus life in Western us very different to that in McGill and that in UdeM), this may also affect your campus life in a significant way.