YEREVAN | Projects & Construction

[karlarrec1]

Hi folks.

I'm not sure if this is the right subforum to post this thread in, but I'm gonna give it a try.

Yerevan, the capital of Armenia, is undergoing a massive construction boom, funded mostly by Armenian millioniares from Russia. They are transforming the city center in an unprecedented way.

Armenia is a country of 3 million people. It is the smallest former Soviet republic.
1 million people live in Yerevan, the capital.
About 4 million Armenians live in the very active and nationalistic Diaspora, which has greatly benefitted Armenia.
Armenia's economy has seen at least 10% GDP growth every year since 1998.
Its neighbors are Turkey to the west, Georgia to the north, Azerbaijan to the east, and Iran to the south.

There are 2 huge projects, the construction of 2 new streets: the Northern Avenue project, and the Main Avenue project.
The Northern Avenue project will be completed in about a year, while Main Avenue is just getting started.

Beyond that, there is an amazing number of luxury residential highrises going up in the city.

And, there is the construction of the Museum of Contemporary Art, funded by American-Armenian Gerard Cafesjian.

In the past few years, the city center has also seen major road reconstruction and the refurbication of the central square, Republic Square, funded by American-Armenian billionaire, Kirk Kerkorian.

And an Argentinean-Armenian has purchased the main airport and is adding a new terminal while renovating the existing one.

Finally, there are small projects across the city, from new stores to hotels to cafes to clubs and restaurants. The city is coming alive.

I just wanted to give you all a taste of what's going on in Yerevan...

http://www.cilicia.com/Crane%20City.jpg


Northern Avenue

This project literally cut a new street through the city center, connecting the Opera Square to the Republic Square. It was part of Yerevan's first urban plan in the 1920s, but was only just realized. It will be pedestrian-only.

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/northernave1.jpg

All buildings in this pic are new.
http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/liberty-nuke-779096.jpg

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/CIMG4541_33p-714137.JPG

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/northern-blvd-july05-761191.JPG

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/IMG_2893.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/IMG_2897.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/IMG_2919.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/IMG_2655b.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/nave024.jpg


Main Avenue

Dilapidated building to be torn down for the Main Avenue reconstruction project.
http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/main-blvd-july05-760262.JPG


Luxure highrise condos

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/Dodishenq-742862.jpg

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/MaybeABarn-716541.jpg

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/BusinessCenter-776354.jpg

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/Arami-740327.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/IMG_2916.jpg

This one is curved in the middle.
http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/nn_2892.jpg


Cafesjian Museum of Contemporary Art

It will be a $25m project, built atop a hill, in a district known as the "Cascade" as there is a beautiful stairway/gardens leading up the hill.

Some rather poor renderings. The museum is designed by American David Hoston. It began construction in May 2005.
http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/200409_cafesjian.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/200409f_cafesjian.jpg


Other projects

A renovation...please notice the new palm trees...in Armenia!
http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/batumi-bldg-730149.JPG

Expansion and renovation of Yerevan State University.
http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/ysu/images/IMG_2709.jpg

Renovation of Republic Square:
http://img1.travelblog.org/Photos/1803/3841/f/12856-Republic-Square-Yerevan-Armenia-0.jpg

The center is a replica of a traditional Armenian carpet. It is made with stone from each of Armenia's provinces.
http://p.vtourist.com/1326426-Republic_Square-Yerevan.jpg

At night.
http://gallery.guzman-nunez.com/albums/yerevan05/res1060896959.jpg

http://gallery.guzman-nunez.com/albums/yerevan05/res1068656318.jpg

Refurbished Opera House:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/tumanyan?display=galleryfull


New nightlife:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/nightlifeandente/at_night_in_yereva

The most popular club in Yerevan, Astral. The first western-style club. Plus, a large gay patronage, a rarity in Yerevan.
http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/657.jpg

New restaurants:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/eatingout/shant_restaurant_y?display=galleryfull

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/18.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/175.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/202.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/840.jpg

http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/eatingout/monte_cristo_yerev?display=galleryfull

New/remodeled hotels:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/golden_palace_hote?display=galleryfull

http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/accommodation/europe_hotel?display=galleryfull

http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/hotel_ararat?display=galleryfull

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/569.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/435.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/establishments/pic_b/590.jpg

New shopping center:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/tashir_shopping_ce?display=galleryfull

New water park:
http://www.world66.com/europe/armenia/yerevan/water_world?display=galleryfull

New cathedral:
http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/sites/pic_b/105.jpg

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/sites/pic_b/106.jpg


Some final views:

http://gallery.guzman-nunez.com/albums/yerevan05/res766365496.jpg

http://www.sanpetebiz.com/yerevpano.jpg

I'm sorry if I veered too much from showing skyscrapers; but I wanted everyone to get a feel of everything that is going on in Yerevan. It is truly mind-boggling, I think.

Enjoy!

[KhApZ!]

Thank you for this post! One of my good friends here in Australia is Armenian, he is EXTREMELY patriotic (mocks EVERYTHING remotely Turkish or Azeri) but apart from that, hes a great guy. I recall him telling me about how bad the poverty is and how low the living standards are in Erevan, is anything being done to directly combat this?

Welcome to the forum by the way! What nationality are you?

[karlarrec1]

Thanks for the welcome! I'm Armenian myself (though not from Armenia the republic), and quite the patriot like your friend down under. ;)

The living standards in Yerevan are low, but they are improving. The poverty rate has decreased from 50% to 42% in the last couple of years, as the government has implemented a strategic poverty reduction plan. That plan has garnered much support from the European powers.

I was last in Yerevan (the only time anyway), in 2000. None of the stuff in these pictures was anywhere to be seen. Recent visitors to the city are amazed and shocked at the sheer amount of construction and change. That first picture with the cranes tells the story quite succintly, I think.

Greetings to your friend! :)

(PS: I was in Sydney and Cairns in January 2004 -- it's lovely down there. Fell in love with Sydney!)

[Football Rules]

Great projects for Yerevan
I dont think this thread belongs in this section since Armenia geographically is located in South-Western Asia.

[genci888]

http://www.cilicia.com/Crane%20City.jpg

WOW

[bloodsaric]

That looks very nice, great buildings :)

[paku]

Thanks for the pics! Yerevan projects look very nice. Please keep us updated!

[RTX]

I like those buildings U/C in Armenia.

[Gilgamesh]

Oh...Thanx a thousands for the pics and all...I've always been interested in our northern neighbours...;)

[KhApZ!]

The Caucasus is the debatable eastern end of Europe, so I feel this is the right section for this post.

I am glad to hear you liked Sydney! My Armo friend has relatives in LA actually and loved the Armenian community atmosphere alot...He was telling me stories about sitting on the road till like 3am just chatting to all his neighbours who were all Armos aswell- there is a much bigger size Armenian comunity over there apparantly.

He is heading back at the end of next year he tells me, he basically only sticks to Yerevan, it would be interesting to hear from him. Ive always had a weird interest in the mysterious Caucasus countries, so thanks alot for posting once again! Please keep posting if you find more pics/info about Armenia :).

[mic of Orion]

fantastic, great, wow, very nice, How well is Armenia doing economically, has this effect repeated all over Armenia or only the Capitol?

[Luka]

AMAZING!!!

[CVRKI]

http://www.armeniainfo.am/pics/sites/pic_b/105.jpg
:eek: Splendid.
Magnificient interpretation of the traditional style. I wish my Serbs had this talent.

:cheers:

[KhApZ!]

Well Armenia was the first country to accept Christianity as its national religion :) If that perhaps explains the magnificent beauty of this church

[VelesHomais]

Incredible! Welcome to the forum. Sure Armenia belongs here, as we had already had seen projects of and discussed Azerbaijan and Georgia before.

So you're born in diaspora? That's awesome how you guys maintain your cultural heritage.

[VoliVasPendula]

A truly amazing city.

[3tmk]

Well personally I don't think this thread should stay here but if we have that delusional guy claiming Azerbaijan is Eastern Europe post threads here I guess this is even more entitled to stay.
And great projects, I am amazed at the quality of some buildings!
and of course, Welcome! I doubt we have any Armenian members, so it's good to get at least one.

[KhApZ!]

^ You think im delusional...thats just what lonely planet thought me...:(:(. You are such a freaking troll! WAHHH!!! :cry:






















;):D

[lindenthaler]

Totaly amazing, and cathedral is great!

[Shodan]

Wow, very nice.

[paku]

fantastic, great, wow, very nice, How well is Armenia doing economically, has this effect repeated all over Armenia or only the Capitol?

I found a striking similarity between Armenia and Albania in size, population, economy. Armenian economy seems to be even more developed (service sector vs agricultural sector) and dynamic than Albanian one.

From CIA

Albania
Area:
total: 28,748 sq km

Armenia
Area:
total: 29,800 sq km

Albania
Population:
3,563,112 (July 2005 est.)

Armenia
Population:
2,982,904 (July 2005 est.)

Albania
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$17.46 billion (2004 est.)

Armenia
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$13.65 billion (2004 est.)

Albania
GDP - real growth rate:
5.6% (2004 est.)

Armenia
GDP - real growth rate:
9% (2004 est.)

Albania
GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $4,900 (2004 est.)

Armenia
GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $4,600 (2004 est.)

Albania
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 46.2%
industry: 25.4%
services: 28.4% (2004 est.)

Armenia
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 22.9%
industry: 36.1%
services: 41.1% (2004 est.)

[Majevčan]

Those a great projects :eek2:

BTW Armenia is my favourite country in that region ;)

[Football Rules]

@paku
Leave Albania out of this please, dont be annoying.

[karlarrec1]

I'm really glad you all have enjoyed the pictures and information! I spend way too much time documenting and researching this stuff, so I'm sure you'll hear lots more about it from me. Thanks for all the welcomes!

BTW, I love that Cathedral, too!!! Construction was completed in 2001, I think, to coincide with the 1700th anniversary of Christianity in Armenia.


Khapz: I laughed to no end because you referred to Armenians as Armos. lol That's what we call ourselves (in somewhat derogatory terms, but still), and few 'outsiders' know the word. lol The community here is very large -- the whole of California has about 400,000, so it'd be quite a shock to someone from Australia! lol

mic of Orion: So far, this magnitude of development has been limited to Yerevan. But really, the rest of Armenia is rural or made of small towns. The second largest city has just over 100,000 people. However, there is another place where this kind of development has been seen, and that is Nagorno-Karabagh's capital, Stepanakert. I don't want to go too much into that (so I won't start a fight over the region! lol) -- but the Diaspora has funded highway projects, school reconstruction projects, new housing, hotels, etc in that small town of 70,000 people.

Pan Stanislav: Yes, I was born in the Diaspora (USA), and so were my parents (they were born in Syria). It's quite a challenge to maintain your heritage in the States, but we try our best!

[Majevčan]

It's quite a challenge to maintain your heritage in the States, but we try our best!

:okay:

[paku]

@paku
Leave Albania out of this please, dont be annoying.

Hey, mean no offence to anyone, I'm just such a comparison&statistic freak ;)

[thebackdoorman]

The projects look amazing. I am glad the diaspora is helping this much.

[Gilgamesh]

BTW, I love that Cathedral, too!!! Construction was completed in 2001, I think, to coincide with the 1700th anniversary of Christianity in Armenia.



That's interesting...! I like the looks of Armenian churches...;)

Do you know about this one? It's famous...;):D

http://chnphotoagency.ir/pattern.php?image=CHA102.jpg

[Galandar]

Well personally I don't think this thread should stay here but if we have that delusional guy claiming Azerbaijan is Eastern Europe post threads here I guess this is even more entitled to stay.
And great projects, I am amazed at the quality of some buildings!
and of course, Welcome! I doubt we have any Armenian members, so it's good to get at least one.

First, i don't claim it since Azerbaijan and other caucasian republics are situated in disputable Caucasus. It is a part of Europe and Asia at the same time. I don't want to stay on this theme anymore.

Second, i am glad to see someone representing Armenia here in this forum. Welcome here! Yerevan is an interesting city, we would like you to tell more about projects in Yerevan and other cities of Armenia.
In spite of the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan and occupied territories of Azerbaijan, the doors of this forum are opened for everyone and i hope the conflict will be solved soon.

[VelesHomais]

If only political conflicts between Azerbaijan and Armenia were solved in a manner and attitude you just presented, things would have been a lot better.

:okay:

btw, now we need someone from Georgia :D

[Sergei]

I personally think that the Caucas is Eastern Europe.

[Kommandant Mark]

^
Same here.
Eastern Europe is not rich enough to let such beatiful regions like Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan get taken by Central Asia;)

Btw, great project:okay:
Armenia's diaspora is quite strong and thats good. I heard someone say even that there's more Armenians in Russia then in Armenia itself.

[Migman]

I'm Armenian myself (born and raised in Yerevan) and I have to say that all these projects look amazing! Armenia is finally crawling out of the gutter. And on top of that the govt is reporting that the GDP has grown an astonishing 12% since 2005.

I found some models of what the new terminal at Zvartnots will look like, and also a detailed article (http://impressions-ba.com/features.php?id_destination_info=1&id_feature=10368). The interesting thing is that the two models are differ in that the top one has more air bridges and the terminal itself appears to be a bit larger.

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/zvartnots1.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/zvartnots2.jpg

[ArmNB]

Hate to ruin everyone's excessive love for the new buildings, but I think they're rather lifeless and that we can do much better. I'm Armenian, by the way.

There are new condominium complexes with ungodly high prices being sold to diasporans and repatriates who don't seem to care how much they are charged. Such a shame.

Here are some more constructions:

Ararat Towers http://www.ararattowers.com/ (Kind of dull if you ask me.)
http://www.ararattowers.com/images/develop/pics5/big/Picture-016.jpg
http://www.ararattowers.com/images/otherpics/G-23.jpg

Windows to Ararat http://www.windowstoararat.am/ (This one looks okay, they're not very tall)

Golden Palace Hotel http://www.goldenpalacehotel.am/ (This one looks interesting, they were constructing it when I was last there, it's finished and open now...)
http://www.armenialiberty.org/images/photo/park-hotel2.jpg
http://www.goldenpalacehotel.am/gallery/images/spa1.jpg

Hermek http://www.hermek.com/ (Luxury condominium)
http://www.hermek.com/images/panoram/big/right.jpg

There's more, but that's all I feel like posting right now...

[Kontrakom]

Its not Yerevan is in Asia

[mirza-sm]

wow Yerevan is doin great :)

[karlarrec1]

Nice to see some other Armenians on here! Parev tsez!

ArmNB: I agree that some of the condo towers are kind of bleh. So are the buildings on North Avenue. But the fact that these are being built in the first place is the positive sign, for me. Just as important is the alleviation of poverty. All the pieces of the puzzle must come together. We need cafes and restaurants and hotels and nice, modern streets with new shops for the tourism industry. But we also need to reduce poverty. We need to get all those factories in the regions (marzes) open again. We need to cut down on corruption. It all needs to happen, but seeing these first steps is encouraging, and should be cause for optimism for 'hamayn hayootian.' I went off an a tangent there, sorry...

Migman: I'm glad to see that the airport renovations and expansions finally have some concrete construction dates. When I arrived in Yerevan Zvartnots in 2000, the arrivals terminal was falling apart. I'm really glad it's being refurbished. The top, departures area was much nicer.

[karlarrec1]

Some new shots of the North Avenue project:

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4835.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4844.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4836.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4831.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4834.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4839.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4843.jpg


From a few months ago (November):

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/nov19/images/44.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/nov19/images/42.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/nov19/images/61.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/nov19/images/48.jpg

Now, some new shots of the nearly-completed addition at Yerevan State University:

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/ysu/15jan/images/IMG_4848.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/ysu/15jan/images/IMG_4851.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/ysu/15jan/images/IMG_4852.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/ysu/15jan/images/IMG_4849.jpg

The new Sports Committee building:

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/jan14/images/IMG_4830.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/24Sept05/images/IMG_2914.jpg

[OhridBoy]

wooooooow..some really nice projects and it's really good to see that armenia is developing fast..your people deserve it after all that you have been through

[*Cole*]

Great stuff! I'm really glad to see so much development! I am planning to visit Armenia this summer! :) looking forward to it! really can't wait! :)

[MIMICA]

I personally think that the Caucas is Eastern Europe.

Me too. :yes:

[karlarrec1]

Yerevan is also getting a new (but short) highway.

Traffic has gotten so bad in the last decade (always a sign of an improving economy, especially since the population has decreased since then), that the Government will build a 3.5km highway linking the city center to the eastern suburbs.

Design is complete, and construction will commence soon, with completion in 2 years.

It will cost $10 million, completely funded by the Lincy Foundation. (Lincy Foundation is the charity foundation of MGM multi-billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, an Armenian-American; Lincy has provided hundreds of millions of dollars to Armenia. Armenia may have been unlucky in history, but it is very lucky to have Kirk Kerkorian on their side.)

[OettingerCroat]

i love charles aznavour and i love armenia!!!! go armenia!!!

[KWEST]

ARMENIANS ROCK!!!

http://img.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/021029/1470__system_l.jpg

[karlarrec1]

Just a quick update on the NORTH AVENUE project.

To recap: North Avenue is a pedestrian-only street of offices, housing, retail and shops that is being constructed in central Yerevan. It is expected to be completed in 2007.

The first section (about 20-25% of the project) is almost ready. These pictures are from a few weeks ago.

http://www.cilicia.com/uploaded_images/n-ave-CIMG6265-709940.JPG

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0002.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0001.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0004.jpg

Construction continues on the remaining portion.

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0024.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0018.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0027.jpg

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/may13/images/DSC_0007.jpg

Plans of the full project -- it's huge!

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/projects/construction/images/northernave2.jpg

[Luka]

^^ amazing! It looks great

[ZimasterX]

Awsome project! Yerevan seems to be doing very well in construction.

[Subangite]

Yerevan looks amazing

[lindenthaler]

Impressive again! I expect more pictures from Yerevan.

[*Cole*]

Great stuff!!! Looks very nice :)
:cheers:

[nagib uzbrdica]

yerevan in europe ??? :hilarious
that's it, I'm opening BL constr. thread in asian subforum..........:cheers:

[Majevčan]

those Armenians are great :okay:

[Janis_LV]

yerevan in europe ??? :hilarious
that's it, I'm opening BL constr. thread in asian subforum..........:cheers:

wow very interesting finally to see what happens in Armenia.

The borders of Europe and Asia are very vague, I would say Georgia and Armenia are Europe, because they are christian, Azerbaijan is Europe because of links to former two. But further south Iran and Turkey that is Middle East already - Asia

[vahebaronian]

Wow, what a difference from the last time I was there in 2002. Great to see!

[jsogdi]

wow very interesting finally to see what happens in Armenia.

The borders of Europe and Asia are very vague, I would say Georgia and Armenia are Europe, because they are christian, Azerbaijan is Europe because of links to former two. But further south Iran and Turkey that is Middle East already - Asia



The general standard delineation of Europe includes all the Aegean Islands, but not Asia Minor, follows the sea of Marmara to the black sea, then along to the midline of the Caucasus to the Caspian sea, then follows this up to the Ural river, up through the Ural Mountains to the Arctic Ocean.

By this definition Europe has several countries that are partially in Europe, partially in Asia. Turkey, Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan are all bi-continental, lying in both Europe and Asia. Of these, only the majority of Russia's population falls in Europe. All these other countries have far more people in Asia than in Europe.

As for Armenia, it lies south of the main Caucasus mountains, in the lesser Caucasus. It is therefore entirely in Asia. Many countries near Europe, but not technically in it share many characteristics with true European countries, but they remain outside, geographically speaking. Armenia, Cyprus, Israel, Morocco, and others are outside Europe.

Religion should not determine Europeanness. Europe has a largely Christian past but paganism and Islam have left a major impact upon it. Currently millions of Muslims live in Europe, and many, such as Albanians, Bosnians, and Turks have lived there for hundreds or thousands of years. Currently Many Europeans are Atheists, this does not make them Un-European. Morocco and Armenia may resemble Europe in several ways, but they are outside it. Albania and Macedonia are within it, this is reality.

Armenia is a beautiful country with wonderful people, architecture, crafts, history, and tradition. It is a joy to see it growing so well out of the poverty that engulfs it currently. I am only worried about the extreme nationalism and expansionist goals of the country that demand war against Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey. I think this type of national over-zealousness is very dangerous. I share the same concern for many people in Turkey, where a similar phenomenon exists, though expansionism is much rarer in Turkey than Armenia. This mentality has led to the senseless and savage murder of Christians in Turkey, and of Muslims in Nagorno-Karabakh. I hope these nationalist countries can find peace and calm manners, in which problems can be discussed in a civilized manner.

[karlarrec1]

Some more pictures (sorry they are so big)...

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/gallery/yerevan/07jan28/images/DSC_0004.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/502040993_23a9288b7b_b.jpg

Phase 1 of the Northern Avenue pedestrian promenade
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1201/539885545_74210326c4_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/539771618_8645a2ba6c_o.jpg

And the new airport terminal (entirely privately funded):

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1408/539776988_e58c5893eb_o.jpg

[dejan]

^^Thanks a lot! These pictures are amazing!:okay: Go Yerevan:)

[new bulgaria]

Actually, Erevan and Tbilisi both boast new terminals, which look pretty cool.

[nilix]

It's good to have some Armenian members-coz our opinion about them is goo too-
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=405463&highlight=what+takes+to+be+Armenian+in+Bulgaria

[VelesHomais]

Thanks for the pics, looks like the country is rapidly developing. Maybe one day the three Caucasus countries will become close allies like the Baltic states.

[dewrob]

one of my favourite threads in EE, been checking it since I'm a member here... too bad it's updated rearly.... neverthless the updates are great :cheers:

[karlarrec1]

Some more recent pictures/projects:

Mixed-use project in the center:
http://www.griar.am/english/images/fs/3.jpg

http://www.griar.am/english/images/fs/5.jpg

New boutique hotel in a village outside Yerevan (funded by the Diaspora):
http://www.tufenkianheritage.com/imageshtml/home/hotel450.jpg

More shots from the completed portion of Northern Avenue:

http://www.yerevan.am/photos/new/3-3.jpg

http://www.yerevan.am/photos/new/18-18.jpg

The new City Hall
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/46673850_4be5d47007.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/46675196_f6e71af503.jpg

Cascade
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/266405528_752c2e34fc_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/333210307_d028a57296_o.jpg

The Diaspora-based Cafesjian Museum Foundation is building a $25M world-class Musuem of Contemporary Art at the top of the Cascade monument. Under construction - to be completed in 2009.

http://www.cmf.am/museum/mus2.jpg

http://www.cmf.am/museum/mus5.jpg

http://www.cmf.am/museum/mus1.jpg

Better renderings of the design of the museum can be found at the architect's (David Hotson) website: http://www.hotson.net.

Here are some shots from the site -- they're not very exciting, but it's all I could find!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/255745171_d70bbc12df.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/82/255744060_f0eccd83f7.jpg

New shopping options for Yerevan:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/266406978_d0e045141a_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/539770814_2998697bc0.jpg

There are also new stores from Benetton, Apple, Guess, etc -- but no photos!

Final shot of Republic Square:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/420870411_d40971263b_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/10053870_8ed3890632_b.jpg

Independence Day

http://www.yerevan.am/photos/new/12-12.jpg

[Kapedani]

I was trying to find something about Armenia today and I was looking all over this forum...didn't even think to look in the EE forum until I saw this.

To tell the truth I had not the slightest idea what Armenia looked like...so I'm glad I found this thread.

However...I have to say something...I'm slightly disappointed. Don't take this the wrong way...but I was expecting something more. Plus...I just saw a thread about Azerbaijan...and I was very impressed with the new construction and developments in Azerbaijan. I guess Azeris have the benefit of huge oil reserves. I was hoping to see something similar in Armenia...but besides those buildings in the center...the rest of the city seems to still have much of the air of an old Soviet-style provincial town...

Again don't take this the wrong way...but the level of new development seems quite low...

I hope there will be more pictures in the future...

This is Yerevan right?
http://www.ramsar.org/pictures/armenia-yerevan-mtg.jpg

http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/armenia/erevan.jpg

View from Erebuni (the ancient capital)
http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/31/16.%20erebuni%20panorama.JPG

I'm also very interested in history and archeology...so here are some photos of the ancient Erebuni

Cuneiform script on the walls (seems to be a lot of borrowings in terms of culture and style from the Persians)
http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/8/4.%20entrance%203_small.JPG

http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/10/5.%20entrance%20wide_small.JPG

http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/14/7.column%20base_small.JPG

Very similar style to Persians
http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/24/12.%20fresco_small.JPG

http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/30/15.%20walls_small.JPG

The sphinxes (also similar to Persian ones)
http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/34/17.%20sphinx%201_small.JPG

http://loosavor.org/pics/erebuni/36/sphinxes_small.jpg

2nd century ad temple reconstructed by the Soviets
http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/armenia/garni.jpg

http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/armenia/sardarapat_2.jpg

[Kapedani]

Oops...I just realized this was the projects and construction subforum...and my pictures have nothing to do with that. Sorry...

[karlarrec1]

Kapedani: I appreciate your interest in Yerevan, and Armenia in general.

You're right -- the development underway in Yerevan is underwhelming, especially when compared to its neighbor Azerbaijan. However, it must be looked at in the correct context.

Since 1994 (ie, 3 years after independence), Armenia has endured a double economic blockade -- one from the east (Azerbaijan) and one from the west (Turkey). This amounts to about 85% of Armenia's land borders closed. Also, Armenia has no sea coast (unlike Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey). It is totally landlocked, and depends on land borders for trade. As it stands now, exports must go through Georgia and Russia to get to Europe, instead of going through Turkey, which would cost much less.

From 1988 - 1994, it fought a war with Azerbaijan. And today, it single-handedly subsidizes another country, the non-recognized Republic of Nagorno-Karabagh (the land over which the war was fought and won). A great deal of Armenia's budget goes to subsidizing Nagorno-Karabagh. That conflict is still not resolved, and that is why the borders are closed. Add to all of this the fact that Armenia has no natural resources (no oil), and the fact that it has fewer than 3 million people (the smallest country in the region), and it is truly a miracle that Armenia even exists.

In the 1990s, just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and period during the war immediately after it, Armenia was a country in a complete and absolute shambles. There was no electricity, no money, no running water, no bread, etc. These were the "dark years" -- yet they were only a decade ago. The fact that the buildings in the central square are lit at night and the fountains are filled with water is a blessing for Yerevan, for they remember what it was like just a few years ago.

Every year since 1999, Armenia has sustained 10%+ GDP growth, and it has earned the praise of both the US and EU as the most diversified and the most stable economy in the region -- and that is the reason we are now finally seeing the first signs of foreign development in Armenia.

What was Armenia's biggest deficit (lack of oil) is turning out to be its biggest asset, as it has been forced to create a real economy (unlike Azerbaijan). Mining, construction, services, IT, etc -- are all booming in Armenia.

Finally, the tourism sector is probably the fastest growing in Armenia. It is on target to reach close to 500,000 tourists this year. For a country of 3 million -- that's huge!

Anyway, this is only the beginning for Armenia, as I see it.

[karlarrec1]

By the way, I came across some more new pictures of the Northern Avenue project, phase 1 (taken in the winter):

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1169/770609658_438075248c_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1402/769743845_15295e4bb6_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1184/770625836_13fb9abba6_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1286/769757629_217de39fc0_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1062/769756589_ab3c6f6310_b.jpg

[Demis]

Hi, my name is Demis from London England. I am working on a project regarding the colours in use by the different European police forces, on their vehicles. I badly need photos of all kind of police cars, vans, 4x4s etc, from Armenia, so as to included them in my book. Can anyone help me please? You can also contact me on DemisD@aol.com
Thanking you all

[dewrob]

What was Armenia's biggest deficit (lack of oil) is turning out to be its biggest asset, as it has been forced to create a real economy (unlike Azerbaijan). Mining, construction, services, IT, etc -- are all booming in Armenia.


I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.

[nilix]

I like the look of Erevan-it's strange and cosy,not boring like many other towns.

[new bulgaria]

I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.

:okay:

[Dulgeroff]

I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.

I don't fully agree with your comment on Northern Europeans. Just 70 years ago the Scandinavian countries were some of the least developed in Europe. Actually, according to various academic studies the Northern European countries, including ones such as Germany, were the least developed in Europe at all times of the continent's civilized history except for the last 200-300 years. I believe that the main reason these countries are better off today is because they are not placed in a so-called geographical shatter-belt wherein critically ‘opposed’ religions/cultures/civilizations clash and create centrifugal forces that tear "these" regions apart and consequently stimulate instability. Think Balkans or Eastern Europe and you'll get the point, but there are many books written on the subject and you don't have to take my word for anything I say.:) Plus, Russia is Nothern European but less advanced then Southern Europe. Do they not have the harshest climate to deal with? The answer to this dilemma lies not in climate, but once again in the shatter-belt theory!

Another practical example I would like to share is this:

Most of Europe's innovations throughout history have risen from the southernmost parts of the continent. In ancient times the Balkans (SEE) were the epicenter of "Europe's" development. This epicenter later shifted to South-Central Europe (Rome/Italy), which held the title for nearly 1500 years, ending with a standing ovation called the Renaissance. Then the epicenter shifted further west, but still remained in Southern Europe. It was Portugal and Spain's time to lead! They created the world's first truly global empires and to a great extent modern international trade, capitalism and globalization stems from the decks of their oceangoing vessels. I don't have to describe in detail how the epicenter continued to shift onward to France, then England, Germany, the USA, etc... ...

It was during these dynamic shifts that the Scandinavians remained largely disconnected from all sorts of power struggles. It is the safety and stability of their relative geographical isolation that allowed them to create marginally peaceful societies that are in turn prerequisites to sustainable economic development.

An example from Asia is Japan. Their isolation made them much less advanced then China, atleast up until the Meiji Restoration of 1868. The Japanese copied just about everything from the much more advanced/innovative China for nearly 200- years, but in the last 100 years have become known as leaders in technology, while China stagnated and entered a period of decline. Why? Just like in the Balkans, the Chinese were faced with a clash of cultures, empires, religions, etc... ... Their inability to unify their resources, especially the HR component of these, degraded the mighty dragon into a lethargic and arthritic lizard with a bad case of Alzheimer’s. Then again, today we can clearly see what happens when stability is re-established and therefore China is rising once more…

In conclusion, stability precludes organization, and organization precludes the efficient and effective use of resources. That in itself precludes such things as innovation and holistic progress. Maybe it's the Balkan's turn once more... Unless we decide to Fuck it up “once more!” :cheers:

[dewrob]

^^

of course nothing is black and white and much of what U said makes sense and I agree...

However I find the southern "contribution" to civilization overrated... cradle of democracy blah blah... we're stucked in the past while the north is creating history and has been doing so for quite a while... And the progress of humanity achieved in the past 100 years has been unprescented in comparising to any other period IMO, even in relative terms.

second thing... U got stucked with the far north Scanidavians, I was also talking about Germans, Dutch, British etc.

third... I was talking about their state of mind and how they reached this level, not how long have they been wealthy and prosperous. I'm quite aware that for example Icelanders have been living in underground huts till very recently. Their main university has been established only in 1911 for example and that is sure indicative. However the progress they achieved in such a short period is really remarkable.

meanwhile if we stick to our region the peak of each individual Balkan state has been hunderts if not thousands of years ago and we are still bashing each other on daily basis because of those past glory days.

Even though we like to beleive otherwise, even our summarized contribution to the modern world is minor in comparasing from what came from the northern nations.

Of course I don't say we are geneticly stupid or lesser than them but that our mentality, the way it is shaped due to many varoius reasons, is less progressive then theirs. Things could change but it'll take time. For the time being being a restaurant or a cafe owner is more respectable (and profitable) in Macedonia often than being an IT Engineer or a Doctor. The mentality is focused on leisure, relaxation, luxtury, easy life but not on the means how to reach all those things. The Macedonian dream is not to create, not to make profit, not to make progress, not to make a sustainable developement but to live for the moment. To have a nice car, good clothes and enough money to make the daily parades in the Skopje cafes/bars/night clubs... All this preferably with a dodgy 'get rich over night' scheme.
My experiances tell me that other Balkanities are not much different.

[dejan]

^^Great summary dewrob! Could not have said it better myself:cheers::okay:

dewrob - 1
dulgeroff - 0
:tongue2: hehe just joking;)

[bgrs]

Yerevan is nice and Armenians are nice people.

One of my best friends is an Armenian :)

[Turnovec]

I have warm feelings to armenians too. We gave shelter to many of them in the beggining of 20th century and most them are now solid part of our society. :cheers:

@ dewrob... It is really not that simple when we talk about those things.

Brits for example are now leaving their United Kingdom and finding their paradise on the balkans ... While their home land gets flooded with indians , pakistanians, balkanians and the likes.

Besides not many of the brits or scandinavians are in such a higher state of mind .... We are supirior than them in many aspects.

The problem here on the balkans comes from the fact that we are too small, fragmented and we have a lot of historical accumulations ...

Take Bulgaria for example - for 100 years we have suffered 3 national catastrophes ... we have experienced dictorships , kommunism etc. ... How the hell we could be normal when we didn't had even a small period of 30-40 years of normal and steady development ?

However You both with Dulgeroff have right in what you say. :okay:


btw. there is something else when talking about the paralels between Macedonia and Armenia. In the Macedono-Odrinsko Opulchenie from 1912-13 there was a big number of armenians - the biggest of all foreigners who signed as volunteers . You must apreciete that they fought for your freedom if i can state it like that. :cheers:

[Dulgeroff]

Dewrob,

When I take the Southern European parts of the continent, including of course Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Balkans, etc... ... I dare say that the contribution to culture, literature and science is greater than that which has come from the Northern countries. It's not just my opinion though, many papers have been written on the so-called Latin vs. Germanic contributions to world progress. But hey that's just Latins, there are many others in Southern Europe who have done a lot.

When it comes to the current state of affairs, I think I've already made my opinion clear as to why our part of the continent is the way it is today. Just look at East and West Germany and you get a clear example of what I'm talking about. It's a good one to analyze simply because East Germany (The former mighty Prussia) used to be the wealthiest and most advanced of the German kingdoms and indeed the catalyst of German unification and global expansion. Look at it 17 years ago though! They were more backward than your former Yugoslavia... Things change and that has nothing to do with climate. :D Unless of course you are talking about the socio-political climate and overall societal stability/unity...:cheers:

[Anto.]

I think you all need to stop idealising the north. Wages might be higher but quality of life is not necessarily. Everythings cyclical and changes all the time.

[Dulgeroff]

^^ Anto, you can clearly see from my posts that I'm not idealising the north. Quite the opposite actually...:)

[nilix]

Our problem is that we don't have the possibility the use our wise guys and we don't want to press out our mental possibilities.And we are a hot point,so here always is ethnical fights and outer pressure.
We are not big enough and our population is small,we had too many catastrophes as Turnovec said which stopped our progress-in the beginning of the 20th century Europe talked about "Bulgarian miracle" and the new Japan,but after that.....
Also,the most important-there are always too many fuckers which want to screw the people with ambition and faculties,people which are really capable are smothered up.
And as a conclusion we are not united (as a separate nation and the region through).We are like a drove and we need a person to lead us-but that person is not born everyday.That's the sad truth I think.
ooo,and our nation don't have motivation and optimism,so where are we going???
As Vasil Levski wrote "People????"

[dewrob]

all the things you say are right guys but I think U're missing the essence

Why are we like sheep and they are not?!
Why are we prone (more prone) to be ruled by a dictators and they are not?
Why did we have communism and they didn't?

Why does this


Also,the most important-there are always too many fuckers which want to screw the people with ambition and faculties,people which are really capable are smothered up.


happen much more often here than there?

Why are there no circumstance at home for our bright minds to do their best performances?
Why are we not more united as nations and as a region?
Why are we small?
Why are we fragmented?!

The answers to all these questions are somewhat complex however the common denominator are the people, the Balkanians. These things don't just happen to us because of some cosmical conspiracy or some constant bad luck, but are a direct results of our mentality, our petty nationalism, our system of values etc.

And if sometimes it seems that its the outsiders causing us our misfortunes you are wrong. The outsiders are simply using our weaknesses to assert their interests and you can't blame them for that, but it's us thet are maintaining these weakenesses and our victim mentality as part of our folclore, it is us maintaining our voulneabrility with passion. We are more keen on trying to find the reasons for our current state of affairs in various external factors than to see what the hell are we doing wrong and try to change those wrongdoings.

I'm not admiring the Northerns/Westerners nor am I having a complex of lower value. People that have been long enough on this forum know that agains all odds, I'm very Balkan patrotic and I'm optimistic about our region and its ability to transform into a good place to live.
However I'm just trying to be realistic about the reasons why are we and them on the different endpoints of the "1st world" (some of us are theoretically not in it but...).

Also I think we divirted from the initial second topic (the first topic is Yerevan).

All I said is that in some cases the weaknesses can turn into strenghts. And I simply said that what might have looked as a weakness historically for the northern nations in comparising to the mighty southern ones is perhaps one of the reasons (not the sole one) why are where they are today and we are where we are today. That's all...

[Thunderbolt55]

US got rich because of World Wars + Oil (after WWII US has 60% of the worlds overall production) 60% 60%!!!!!!!!!

W. Germany got rich because of US
Japan got rich because of US
France Britain got rich indirectly because of US
Scandinavia got rich indirectly because region got rich because of US


Poland, Bulgaria etc.. got poor because of communism.
If Bulgaria was West and Greece was soviet things would be vice versa.

If you don't believe me let's make an experiment:
Let's take a hard working nation a northern one divide the country into half give one part to US and give the other part to Soviets and see what happens:
Hey wait, we already have that one right! See same Germans, (all blond :)) got unbelivably poor with Soviet system and dramatically rich with US support

[nilix]

We have a Bulgarian saying "Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"!

[Dulgeroff]

Dewrob,

The answer to all the questions you asked once more lies in the shatter-belt theory. It's all about location, who your neighbours are and what cultural distance there is between you and them... When that distance is large we all know what happens! Fortunately in the modern world we are all moving closer to one another by way of globalization and indeed today we are witnessing the "almost" mature development what can be termed a global cosmopolitan culture. Anyhow, the Balkans are a place where until recently socio-cultural clashes have been on a scale that has not been experienced in Western Europe since WWII. That's my $0.02... ... ...

[Kapedani]

I agree 100% with Dulgeroff. The "climate" theory in itself can be discarded simply because if that was the case....northern European would have been advanced thousands of years ago...and not 200-300 years ago. The Mediterranean was where just about every development in culture, technology and so forth happened for thousands of years...while the people in northern Europe were just barbarians still hitting each other with clubs. Their biggest achievements are some freaking dung hills in England and some rocks piled on each other...Even in Albania the Illyrians were building amphitheaters and advanced armies at this time.

The "clash of cultures" at that time favored the Mediterranean...since everybody could steal ideas from everybody else...it was the globalisation of those days...while Northern Europe was isolated.

But then Souther Europe suffered from the periodic fluctuations of history...the barbarian hordes that came through like clockwork every few centuries or so...came back once more and started the process of destroying the cultures of the Mediterranean. The final nail in the coffin was given by Christianity...which tore those cultures apart.

Northern Europe...then boroughed whole the cultures of Rome...

England and Germany did not become more developed because of some superiority in culture...they become developed only the last few centuries because of might of arms.

As for the Balkans...even with the barbarian hordes of late antiquity...the slavic invasions of later on...Christianity...we still would have developed the same way as the rest of Europe...if it weren't for the Ottoman Empire. 500 years of almost no development isn't anything small...Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria of course were the hardest hit too.

So there are many reasons...but the last of these reasons...is some "genetic" or "cultural" superiority of anyone. Everyone has their day of glory...and that goes away for whatever reason.

[zzibit]

Yerevan :applause: All EE cities should follow this example.

[joce23]

Yerevan looks well and I see that it grows very nice !:okay:

[Dulgeroff]

Everyone has their day of glory...and that goes away for whatever reason.

Very true! There is birth, growth, maturity, old age and finally death... The interesting fact about cultures on the Balkans is that many have been 'alive' for thousands of years, and even under the knife of foreign transgressors these cultures have managed to avoid death. That in itself says something!

In a way, perhaps the greatest measure of a culture is not its current prosperity or lack thereof as encompassed within what can only be described as a snapshot in time relative to the total length of human history, but rather its ability to survive the tides of time, even the worst of these, whilst others whilt away or simply fall at terminal velocity from the heights of their former glory... ... ...

[Ilsa_1]

^^
[QUOTE=Dulgeroff;14226449]
"Actually, according to various academic studies the Northern European countries, including ones such as Germany, were the least developed in Europe at all times of the continent's civilized history except for the last 200-300 years. "

DulgeroffAbout German history: simply check out Wikipedia.com to find out, what nonsense you spread:
The German knights were the most important ranks in all crusades (that dates back to 1100 – so Germans were among the best developed peoples 900 years ago! Just because you never heard of it, it doesn’t necessarily mean, that it’s not happened!

But let us go much further back: in 2001 the Sky Disc of Nebra (Saxony, middle Germany) was fond. It dates back to around 1600 BC and proves, that the Germanic tribes back then knew a whole lot about astronomy. This Disc proves the roman and Christian propaganda about the “barbarians” from the North were all lies. Find out about the Disc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk

In general one must say, that the aims fo civilization of modern times comes from the North or Mid-Europe, and it has been supported by a class of Nobles and later on Scientists who to a high degree are of German heritage. Most of Europe’s Nobels are of German origin. The fruitful times of Mediterrean is far back, and no more roots/genetic links proved to people living there nowadays. It’s that easy, sorry to say.

Then you say:
"I believe that the main reason these countries are better off today is because they are not placed in a so-called geographical shatter-belt wherein critically ‘opposed’ religions/cultures/civilizations clash and create centrifugal forces that tear "these" regions apart and consequently stimulate instability. The answer to this dilemma lies not in climate, but once again in the shatter-belt theory!"

Your shattered-belt-theory proves nonsense, too. If you (again) check out the history of Germany’s territory, you’ll find out what raids and dreadful wars were going on there – during all periods. To start with the Huns and the Mongolians, then Christianization plus Inquisition later on, invasion from the East until the endless wars going on (1618-1648 the Swedes fell in etc. etc). that region was constantly at war, but remarkably NOT because they caused it, bur for they were attacked continuously. So how come they developed that well?
For they have a different mentality from the Balkans - just like some pointed out here. It’s that simple. It’s not always the circumstance, but also one’s own attitude.:lol:


"In ancient times the Balkans (SEE) were the epicenter of "Europe's" development. I dare say that the contribution to culture, literature and science is greater than that which has come from the Northern countries. "

Certainly, the oppression by the Turks caused a long period of total darkness. Maybe that even influenced the mentality of those peoples, they’re surely mixed with the oppressors


"It's a good one to analyze simply because East Germany (The former mighty Prussia) used to be the wealthiest and most advanced of the German kingdoms and indeed the catalyst of German unification and global expansion. Look at it 17 years ago though! They were more backward than your former Yugoslavia..."

If your ideas touch German parts under Communist oppression – even there they were one of the best states in that system. So it’s not just the circumstance, but the energy of a people and their focusing on important things, not just good cars, fun and a little drink as someone described the Balkans here.

[Ilsa_1]

@ Turnovec, Dulgeroff, Kapedani, Thunderbolt55

Hey guys, you’re chauvinistic boasting is not justified: I wonder, why so many of your countrymen come to Germany in order to live on our social money? Seems they’re not the hard-working ones? They rather let the Germans work.

@ THUNDERBOLT55:

NO – Germany did not become rich because of the US – quite the opposite, AFTER the war, Germany was smashed even more: they stole our gold-reserves, our industry was detached by the Russians to the very last screw (no joke, they “took” complete industrial plants with them) and the so called “Marshall Plan” to support Germany’s economy was paid by the Germans themselves – with the stolen gold from the Reichsbank! Germany still pays reparation for the WW I – in 2008 (!!) T

he Americans stole thousands of our scientific patents: http://www.read-all-about-it.org/archive_english/german_losses/german_war_secrets.html

and forced our scientists to work for them. The Russians were much less diplomatic, they simply put them in prison and forced them to work for them.

Without German brains, the Americans had never touched the Moon, this is even admitted by American astronauts.
There you are!

[mirko1443]

I like the way Yerevan is growing, very classy, but I expected more people on the streets to give it that metropolitan buzz...you know.

Ilse, we're not dissing the 'master race'...just saying throw us a bone too.

[new bulgaria]

I like the way Yerevan is growing, very classy, but I expected more people on the streets to give it that metropolitan buzz...you know.

Ilse, we're not dissing the 'master race'...just saying throw us a bone too.

They just killed 8 there yesterday. That's why!

[Ivanski]

I wonder, why so many of your countrymen come to Germany in order to live on our social money? Seems they’re not the hard-working ones? They rather let the Germans work.

Well most of the livin' in your social money are actually roma . But when they go to Germany for instance you send em back to us. But you're saying that we are not tolerant enough and suck at integration. :lol: