View Full Version : Macau - China
SeeMacau March 2nd, 2003, 09:26 AM Macau
Population : 520,000
The Macau Special Administrative Region, commonly known as Macau or Macao, was established on December 20, 1999, as one of the two special administrative regions (SARs) of the People's Republic of China (PRC), the other being Hong Kong. For 442 years it was ruled by Portugal, making it the oldest European colony in the history of East Asia.
Portuguese traders first settled in Macau in the 16th century. After the Opium War in 1841, most of the foreign merchants in Macau left for Hong Kong, and as a result business and economic activities in Macau declined. Administered by Portugal until the handover in 1999, it was the oldest European colony in China. Since then Macau has developed industries such as textiles, electronics and toys, as well as a notable tourist industry, which boasts a wide range of hotels, resorts, stadiums, restaurants and casinos. What remains unchanged through Macau's history is Macau's strong economic links with Hong Kong, one of the East Asian Tigers and the Pearl River Delta region in mainland China. With a good foundation and infrastructure, Macau provides good financial and banking services, staff training, transport and communications support.
Macau
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1087/919007494_6ffb6c0347.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/276208728_d6eae89e79_b.jpg
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http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/148460970_95c992bd82_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/67009453_671e8c4c7f.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1064/1460702619_cffe2e5e33_o.jpg
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http://farm1.static.flickr.com/105/280213264_700548aee1_o.jpg
Taipa
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/1496910601_07a37876fb_o.jpg
ganjavih March 2nd, 2003, 09:35 AM What?!? Only 400,000 people?!? That skyline is huge! No awards for great architecture but it's dense.
7.5
Wu-Gambino March 2nd, 2003, 01:36 PM Some nice buildings, Macau Tower looks like CN. 6
renell March 2nd, 2003, 03:11 PM 5.5
it has Hong Kong's density, and HK's generic apartments, but a far cry from HK
De Snor March 2nd, 2003, 06:20 PM for a city with this population an awesome skyline :eek:
@ napptown , what is "CN" > Canadian National in TO ?
SteelCity32 March 4th, 2003, 02:28 AM nice skyline, has a lot of smaller things.
6/10
Ptarmigan March 4th, 2003, 06:23 AM 8/10. Looks like Hong Kong.
weirdo March 9th, 2003, 06:43 PM one of my first favourite cities. but i love macau not because of its scrapers.
the buildings aren't so impressive enough. but they're quite ok
7.5/10
schmidt March 11th, 2003, 03:19 AM At least one of the Portuguese settlements abroad worked out :D
9 :)
weirdo March 11th, 2003, 09:24 PM u mean to say brasil didn't work out?
Swede March 20th, 2003, 08:21 PM It certainly has a lot of mass, but IMO not enough class. Ought to be able to improve vastly with the addition of just a few architectural gems.
4/10
weirdo March 21st, 2003, 12:36 AM eric wong, do you have more macau pics? not necessarily scraper pics. maybe the nice cathedral or something else. if it isn't for this thread, where can i see those?
SeeMacau March 21st, 2003, 08:55 AM Here are some pics of old and new parts of Macau (I will find more later)
The Old Part
St. Paul Church - The Cathedral was destroyed many years ago and the front gate is the only part left.
http://www.ajfroggie.com/pics/asiapics/macau-ruins.jpg
http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/China/Macau/Macau-man-woman-church-frame.jpg
Macau Gate - The Gate between China and Macau
http://www.ajfroggie.com/pics/asiapics/macau-gate.jpg
Macau Temple - The site where the portuguese discovers Macau
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/vahakang/travel/pics/macau-temple.jpg
Macau Old City Center - Includes the old legislature hall and churches
The legislature Hall
[IMG]http://www.kidlink.org/KIDPROJ/Macau/lealsenato.jpg
Lighthouse in Macau - Built in 15 centuries when the portuguese first came
http://www.geocities.com/mchummer1974/album/guia.jpg
Lisboa Hotel - The most famous site in Macau and probably it's the first high-rise in Macau built in 60's
http://www.gluckman.com/macau4.jpg
The New Part
The Buddist statue designed by portuguese
http://www.oubees.atfreeweb.com/Images%20Original/2C%20statue%20Macau.jpg
Macau Grand Prix
http://www.oubees.atfreeweb.com/Images%20Original/Grand%20Prix%20museum%201%20Macau.jpg
http://motorsports.nifty.com/pics/macau_crush2_l.jpg
weirdo March 22nd, 2003, 01:10 PM thanks eric wong. i really like macau. years ago i read in an advert- macau: eurpoe of asia. i think it should be europe in asia, or europe and asia (not geographically)
i love ur pics. the cathedral pic reminded me of silly chinese movie (everyday is valentines day) which is really funny.
joesl March 29th, 2003, 06:04 AM Macau is known for a gambling city, right?:?
X-seed 4000 March 29th, 2003, 06:35 AM Ehh... not too bad. 5.5/10. The Macau Tower looks very little like the CN. It looks more like the one in New Zealand and the Space needle.
Cliff March 29th, 2003, 12:45 PM Density - 9
Planning - 7
Height - 7
Architecture - 6
Size - 7
Quality - 7
Setting - 9
Variation - 9
Day - 7
Night - 8
Overall - 7.6
BGT April 16th, 2003, 02:41 AM 6.5/10
SeeMacau April 16th, 2003, 05:39 AM <table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by joesl </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>Macau is known for a gambling city, right?:?</td></tr>
</table>
70% of the total tax incomes are from gambling and tourists
james2390 July 28th, 2003, 04:51 AM 7.5
Fabio August 19th, 2003, 05:01 AM 8/10
really dense, but not much impressive
SeeMacau September 10th, 2003, 01:27 PM More :
http://www.you-are-a-huge-nerd.com/public/freepix/Macau4.jpg
SeeMacau September 10th, 2003, 01:33 PM Central Macau view from the observation tower
http://www.you-are-a-huge-nerd.com/public/freepix/19654723.116_1661.jpeg
SeeMacau September 10th, 2003, 01:36 PM Post Office
http://www.you-are-a-huge-nerd.com/public/freepix/19655021.117_1702.jpeg
SeeMacau September 10th, 2003, 01:38 PM Business District
http://www.you-are-a-huge-nerd.com/public/freepix/81881384UQtNSA_ph.jpeg
huaiwei September 11th, 2003, 08:39 AM Not bad for a city on a small outcrop. 8/10! ;)
SeeMacau September 15th, 2003, 11:55 AM Two more pics I found
West Macau
http://www.worldcityphotos.org/China/MAC-Macau-LuisPeres1.jpg
East Macau
http://www.worldcityphotos.org/China/MAC-Macau-LuisPeres2.jpg
SeeMacau November 21st, 2003, 07:42 AM I rate 8/10
A-brain November 24th, 2003, 05:47 AM I had one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life visiting Macau for just one day whilst visting Hong Kong - a totally unique place..
As such I rather have a soft spot for it - 8.5/10 (It doesn't have a coherent skyline but I like it for other reasons)
Brasil Guy November 24th, 2003, 11:05 AM 9/10 remembers me downtown rio
Schroedinger's Cat April 7th, 2004, 05:15 PM 6.5
not bad
bohemian|senses April 8th, 2004, 11:24 AM I like it! A little European island in the heart of China! :D
Love the Portuguese colonial architecture! Was the picture of the Macau Gate taken before 1999? You can still se the Portuguese flag flying over it! Too bad they had to give it back to China...it would be cool if it was still Portuguese. :(
http://www.ajfroggie.com/pics/asiapics/macau-gate.jpg
8.5/10
kunming April 8th, 2004, 11:38 AM i gave it a 8.5 not because of the skyscrapers, but because i love its historical sites.
skylover April 8th, 2004, 02:31 PM Good.
7.5/10
SoboleuS April 8th, 2004, 06:08 PM What a surprise :eek: Only 400 000 people? Looks like miniature Hong Kong :cool: 8/10
AzN8oi May 17th, 2004, 04:40 AM Actually, I recently visited Macau (April 8th - 15th), so it's been a month and a day since I came back. I must say though, Macau isn't as dense as you guys put it out to be. Whilst true that Macau is EXTREMELY small and one could drive around the whole main island in around 3 hours, the city itself is not as dense as normal Chinese cities. This is because "Macau" is made out of 3 islands: Macau, Taipa, and Coloane. The pictures that Asiaboyz posted were of the island of Macau, the business and colonial district. Not too many people live on the island of Macau; most people like on Taipa (where I stayed in a 25floor highrise). There aren't that many good skyscrapers, IMO. The only structures that caught my attention were the Bank of China Tower, The Macau Tower, and POSSIBLY_ the Lisboa Casino. The rest of the buildings are not spectacular at all. Oh, and yes it's true that Macau is known to be the gambling-hub of China. Macau is only an hour away by ferry from Hong Kong, which is why many Hong Kong people travel to Macau during the weekends to gamble! :drunk:
Once one heads up to the colonial section of Macau (with the Cathedral of St. Paul) the buildings are VERY, VERY old. The buildings all look like they are rotting, which is probably because they were probably built in the 20's and 30's. :wallbash:
If you would like to see more pics of Macau (sorry they're such a huge resolution, and some pics aren't of good quality) please visit:
www.uberly.com/azn8oi/springbreak2004 . :)
Oh, and 6.5/10 :cheers:
SeeMacau May 17th, 2004, 11:00 AM Yes .. definitely !! You can spend only half days to walk around the whole main island !!
Buildings in Macau are not in nice architectures since a lot of people from China migrates to Macau in the 70's and 80's and there are very high demand in apartment buildings .. at that time Macau was still a very poor city and average people income is low. People do need to have space to live !! That's the reason why constructions company built buildings considered about the demand rather than the architectures first ..
SeeMacau May 17th, 2004, 11:04 AM I think the government should demolish all those old apartment buildings and replaces some better quality design buildings ... and hopefully can create more spaces for the parks and sport arenas !!
Hopefully Macau can have some quality buildings in the future .. and also change the quality of the skyline as well !!
SeeMacau October 27th, 2004, 07:10 AM http://img14.exs.cx/img14/1055/35325259LmpVnd_ph.jpg
SeeMacau October 27th, 2004, 07:11 AM http://www.macaudata.com/Macau/draw/pic/image/01_11.jpg
http://www.macaudata.com/Macau/draw/pic/image/07_03.jpg
http://www.macaudata.com/Macau/draw/pic/image/07_13.jpg
SeeMacau October 27th, 2004, 07:12 AM http://img41.exs.cx/img41/8185/134468162rtVyan_ph.jpg
megad October 27th, 2004, 07:26 AM Nice.. looks South American
Imperfect Ending May 4th, 2005, 11:17 AM I thought Macau is its own country.
Arpels May 4th, 2005, 11:48 AM 400 000 people in 16 km2 :eek2: amazingggggggggggggggggggggg!!
km-sh May 4th, 2005, 12:03 PM I thought Macau is its own country.
just your think
B@dGuYoM May 6th, 2005, 05:18 PM 7.5/10
DRAKKO May 7th, 2005, 02:34 AM 8/10
SeeMacau May 7th, 2005, 11:36 AM 400 000 people in 16 km2 :eek2: amazingggggggggggggggggggggg!!
Plus 5 km2 of international airport and another 8km2 of reclaim land area
so its 29km2 now
MattSal July 9th, 2005, 04:23 PM Very nice, especially for its population. I give it an 8/10. :okay:
unusualer July 29th, 2005, 07:14 PM :wave: my home town. not a huge skyline compared to other big cities but very very impressive for a city this size and only around 450,000 pop (but 16mil tourists last yr, crazy shxt). do u guys know how small 25km square (20somthing im not 2 sure) is? lemme show some comparisons: 1/40 the size of hong kong and 1/200 the size of toronto :eek2:
i give it 7.5
unusualer August 8th, 2005, 08:52 AM 400 000 people in 16 km2 :eek2: amazingggggggggggggggggggggg!! :eek2: :eek2:
traveler August 8th, 2005, 10:33 AM Great Portuguese Architecture. :eek2:
El_Greco September 6th, 2005, 02:21 AM 7.5/10
nono September 15th, 2005, 09:26 AM 8.5/10. The most dense city in the world, 17,685 people per sq km.
Faz90 September 16th, 2005, 09:25 PM Macau is becoming the Las Vegas of China. 6/10
trackyfrance September 16th, 2005, 10:45 PM 7/10
Very dense, but not many impressive buildings
AzN8oi September 16th, 2005, 10:51 PM http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=3735069#post3735069
My trip to Macau 4/2004. Photos aren't the best, and quality isn't the best after I used a mass-shrinker program, but oh well :)
Blue_Sky September 18th, 2005, 08:16 PM Great skyline 9/10
existing_hazard September 19th, 2005, 04:49 AM 10/10 :)
Harkeb November 18th, 2005, 06:17 AM HK's little sister. Good for its size.
khoojyh November 19th, 2005, 09:05 PM 8.5/10 overall
forvine January 28th, 2006, 04:14 AM 7/10
hkskyline January 28th, 2006, 08:31 AM http://www.globalphotos.org/macau/20051009/OCT09-S01-0014.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/macau/20051009/OCT09-S02-0121.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/macau/20051009/OCT09-S02-0120.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/macau/20051009/OCT09-S02-0127.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/macau/20051009/OCT09-S02-0137.jpg
LordMarshall January 28th, 2006, 08:37 AM 8/10
LMCA1990 January 28th, 2006, 10:32 PM 9/10- amazingly well-developed, would've given it a 10/10 if i had a few more nice skyscrapers.
Jules January 29th, 2006, 04:35 AM Wow, pretty dense.
Anyways, 7/10
paradyto April 16th, 2006, 02:43 AM 8/10:)
sharpie20 April 17th, 2006, 02:39 AM That's really dense for such a small piece of land, nice mixture of some old colonial portegese architecture and newer chinese skyscrapers.
7/10
I hope those guys in the car crash are ok,lol.
Mosaic April 17th, 2006, 07:02 AM Its skyline looks okay and quite dense but not really impressive. 6.5/10.
FM 2258 April 17th, 2006, 07:09 AM Looks interesting but they need to throw in some supertalls and some grander casinos. Also they should reclaim some land and build a shitload of skyscrapers on that.
Viva Macau!!!! 8/10.
Sinjin P. April 25th, 2006, 05:30 AM 6/10
diz May 10th, 2006, 05:57 AM nice..
9/10
DirkVK May 16th, 2006, 07:25 PM :shocked: Wowwww !!! Impressive !!!! , ever since he was a boy I wanted to visit Macau, a small city with tremendous skyline :nuts:
DirkVK May 16th, 2006, 07:26 PM sorry i forgot 9/10
Stiggen July 5th, 2006, 06:11 PM 6/10
The Forgotten Shadow July 5th, 2006, 08:03 PM I love Macau Tower.. the skyline is dense, and I like that..7/10
Æsahættr July 6th, 2006, 01:34 AM 8/10
Underrated on these forums, it's overshadowed by HK :(
It's a very nice place to visit! Portugal/Chinese blend
SactoSpam November 9th, 2006, 07:15 AM 7.5/10
marching November 13th, 2006, 03:36 AM 8,5/10
ZZ-II April 21st, 2007, 10:07 PM 8/10
paradyto April 22nd, 2007, 04:12 AM Love the tower too:)
Ebek21 September 29th, 2007, 10:12 AM This city is a REAL mix of east and west...and also REAL mix of old and modern..highly recommended for travelling !!! For the skyline, now 8.5/10, but in the future, maybe can get higher..
gladisimo September 29th, 2007, 09:57 PM 8/10, very dense, but somehow its lacking.
HeavenlySword October 1st, 2007, 02:38 PM 10/10
Skyman October 17th, 2007, 12:42 PM Nice place 10/10
PedroGabriel October 17th, 2007, 01:37 PM this thread doesn't make Macau any justice.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1070/723328783_78ff3dc2bc_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2169/1598965490_25b59f3b93_o.jpg
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http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/40332821_0449ce6315_o.jpg
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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1214/640247757_9ac12401d9_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1299/641113676_f0a1875d03_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1341/641105954_67905aae85_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1050/641107850_d904c78c2f_b.jpg
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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1076/641038602_3301ec97db_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1432/640164931_3e163eb030_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1358/641046268_7c7ae0d2b2_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1100/641017820_0667e8e22b_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/414761002_3418f50ff7_o.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=856859637&context=set-72157600276398135&size=o
Miguel_Prat October 19th, 2007, 10:44 PM 6/10
Brisbaner21 October 20th, 2007, 07:26 AM 7/10
Kailyas January 11th, 2008, 05:20 AM 8/10
CarlosBlueDragon February 16th, 2008, 09:44 PM 10/10 :)
blkarr0ws April 3rd, 2008, 03:07 PM we thais love Macau
big-dog April 3rd, 2008, 03:36 PM great skyline, esp at night 10/10
Jo April 3rd, 2008, 03:55 PM Macau is one of those cities with a very distinct character. I love it!
As for the skyline itself, I give it an 8 for now.
timmy- brissy April 3rd, 2008, 04:45 PM 8.5 i like the buildings and looks like China's playground.
ghmelb April 4th, 2008, 05:06 AM I like it 8/10
Judazzz April 4th, 2008, 10:12 AM I really loved Macau: a remarkable blend of cultures, vibrant and pulsating: a place unique in the world.
In my opinion the skyline itself isn't that much as far as diversity and originality are concerned (but things may get better in the future), but it's dense and very considerable for a city of its size. Therefore I give it a 7,5/10.
Here's a few more pictures, that I took when I visited Macau in the late summer of 2006:
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/332/macau04ik7.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7941/macau03tm6.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7244/macau02tv8.jpg
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4888/macau03cn8.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4821/macau08ej8.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6885/macau02wt2.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1135/macau01gq8.jpg
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2100/macau07hp2.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9531/macau06tc5.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9956/macau05cb2.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8500/macau04tq8.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4444/macau01rx4.jpg
Ni3lS April 6th, 2008, 12:38 PM 6,5/10
W!CKED July 27th, 2008, 11:00 PM 6/10
Kawasaki KG December 10th, 2008, 02:49 PM 7/10
Amuse2000 December 10th, 2008, 03:25 PM 7/10
romanito December 10th, 2008, 08:13 PM 8/10
sieradzanin1 April 7th, 2009, 05:28 PM 9/10
christos-greece April 9th, 2009, 07:05 PM 9/10
tonyssa May 13th, 2009, 01:51 AM 9/10
henry hill June 8th, 2009, 07:02 PM 8/10
Breecelu June 9th, 2009, 09:59 AM Macau is still ranked as one of the highest density in the world, right ?
Great improvement, though, compared to what it was 15 years ago, but I miss the time when it was not a Vegas style gambling city...
Jan Del Castillo October 23rd, 2009, 08:33 AM 9. Very good. Regards.
nenad_kgdc October 23rd, 2009, 12:34 PM 9/10
KAZAN RESIDENT October 23rd, 2009, 06:45 PM 10/10
KAZAN RESIDENT February 4th, 2010, 11:10 AM http://s005.radikal.ru/i210/1002/75/4b14ca8a2b43.jpg
http://s006.radikal.ru/i213/1002/65/63993664c410.jpg
http://s002.radikal.ru/i200/1002/89/1da331cd1089.jpg
[dx] February 4th, 2010, 01:34 PM City of Dreams
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs217.snc1/8429_153769222893_505907893_2834288_4633384_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs230.snc1/7716_153018532893_505907893_2829337_6218359_n.jpg
Heroico February 4th, 2010, 05:31 PM 8/10
DWest February 5th, 2010, 07:04 AM 8/10
nice city
Henz February 5th, 2010, 03:18 PM 8/10
danchun July 28th, 2010, 10:00 PM http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/danchun2010/f7b65bfd.jpg
ikops July 29th, 2010, 09:19 AM Interesting mix between old and new. (7.5/10)
albertobusy July 30th, 2010, 07:51 PM Casinos looks great! Skyline is far away from that you can see in Hong Kong, but still nice!
Geocarlos August 27th, 2010, 04:08 AM Love Macau. Skyline has a great future. 9/10
big-dog August 28th, 2010, 09:43 AM 9/10
Nikkodemo August 28th, 2010, 09:29 PM 8/10
Cadillac August 30th, 2010, 06:21 AM Love Macau. Skyline has a great future. 9/10
I totally agree.. This city has an amazing future
motozine August 30th, 2010, 07:46 AM 8/10
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Vrooms September 7th, 2010, 05:28 PM 6.5
Eduardo L. Ramirez December 1st, 2010, 10:04 PM http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/5041896912_a1ccb16662_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessiecrochet/5041896912/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5041901360_0127c2e58a_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessiecrochet/5041901360/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5207561935_67dbfd882a_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47441735@N02/5207561935/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5067064723_5aa6b16e23_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bastomat/5067064723/sizes/l/in/photostream/
IrishMan2010 December 1st, 2010, 11:56 PM 5/10.
Oasis-Bangkok December 6th, 2010, 02:47 PM Enjoy with Macau City of my Dream
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3527/4049424932_07d5e83570_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4592435018_e28def464a_b.jpg
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Oasis-Bangkok December 6th, 2010, 03:10 PM When I Happy I think to Macau
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JayT January 6th, 2011, 12:14 AM Loving these pics.
Can't wait to see more. I believe Macau is going through a boom at the moment.
Love it!!
Sarcasticity January 6th, 2011, 03:01 PM Macau is amazing. The gambling capital of the world! But, Grand Lisboa is the biggest eyesore in the world as well :lol:
mossimoh April 30th, 2011, 08:03 PM 8/10
khoojyh October 2nd, 2011, 05:36 PM As its size and population, Macau skyline is perfect !!!
Srdjan Adamovic January 14th, 2012, 09:50 AM 9/10
Dakaro January 14th, 2012, 12:53 PM 8.5
marcopaulo April 1st, 2012, 02:36 AM :drool: and this used to belong to portugal?? :nuts: beautiful skyline, indeed. not massive, but beautiful and big enough. :cheers:
horlick97 April 1st, 2012, 02:56 AM The new developments in southern coast of the Macau penisula and Cotai is improving the Macau a lot.
I hope the introduction of the LRT will make Macau a unique model of mid-size cities that can generally be non car dependent. Can?
Now, to continue with this direction, the govt will need to set a bold vision and political will, to firstly (a) enact laws such as those for compulsory acquisition and planning control, (b) institute and enforce a overall masterplan down to every square inch of land.
Accordingly, the masterplan should also lay down a realistic population target and safeguard the livability of the built environment.
Leonardo M. Gaz April 18th, 2012, 11:16 PM 8/10
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