I know this isn't relevant to Scandinavia and the Baltics in particular, but I don't really know the people in the Commieblock forum so I wouldn't want to make my first thread there :)

There was an interesting article in the Guardian today, which I recommend you read here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1642120,00.html), but if not I shall summarise it for you: In basic terms, the article talks about a German architect who has been recycling building materials (mainly concrete slabs) from [mostly empty and decaying] East German Commieblocks to construct new houses.

Many of the houses in the district of Mehrow near Berlin have been built already, and although I couldn't find any good photographs of them, I hope you'll agree that they have a pleasing Bauhaus-like quality to them [although the architect cites Frank Gehry's earlier work as his major influence].

Even if you are not a huge fan of the houses themselves, you'll have to agree that to go from this:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,386188,00.jpg

To this:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,499311,00.jpg
Is a vast improvement.

If this project were carried out on a wide scale, it would rid the skylines of many a communist eyesore, and furthermore it would negate the need for countless, unimaginative new highrises. Of course, the main thing to recommend such a scheme is its impeccable environmental credentials - and because of its use of recycled materials, the houses are also about 30% cheaper than similar constructions which do not use recycling. At any rate, I for one would much rather live in a house than a block of flats!

yes, but it would create ALOT of urban sprawl, if all commies got refurbished into single family buildings, the area that would go under them would be 50% the current size of Harjumaa COUNTY!!!

We don't have those big houses in Sweden so it's not a problem for us.

Edit

@ch1le, I don't believe this is true. I am not saying that all tower blocks should be turned into such houses - as the article shows, there are other solutions too. But I think that it could be done on a wider scale to create affordable housing, and overall the visual impact would be far less than a) keeping the commieblocks there or b) making new highrises. Besides, there are a lot of wide spaces between most of the blocks in Vilnius, and I imagine it is a similar situation in Tallinn.

i think they could keep the commies as they are, but give them a nice fasade. or if they are to be taken down, why not bupt them as cityblcok as houses wer built in the old times, the house goes all around the block and there is a parkinside. + a new fasade

i prefer the commieblocks...
What happened to your other accounts? :eek:

Do they have to build single family homes out of the old commieblocks? Why not midrise appartment buildings?

They have also taken the approach of refurbishing, recladding and altering the height of existing blocks to create a more varied skyline which seems a good thing. And although the little Englander in me likes the idea of individual homes more than apartment blocks, I also quite like Wolkenkrabber's idea of arranging these in a more communal 'block' [in the American sense of the word] pattern rather than the 'suburban' detached layout as practiced by Biele.

We don't have those big houses in Sweden so it's not a problem for us.
Come on... When entering Stockholm by ship it looks just like real commieblock city. Only that they look better maintained than here, in Baltics.

In Liepaja City they chipped in small pieces some 20 commieblock buildings and used for roads and harbour construction. City owns that device for "commieblock destruction", hope they will use it more.

Edit

I personly don't mind huge surbuban areas. But I don't ever want to see then in downtown areas!
I like the idea, but don't think we can use it much in Denmark... IMO we need to start building higher, not tear down the few 10+ buildings we have, no matter how ugly they are! ( we can always just paint then and put some glass and other decorative stuff on the outside ).

Mr D

Come on... When entering Stockholm by ship it looks just like real commieblock city. Only that they look better maintained than here, in Baltics.

In Liepaja City they chipped in small pieces some 20 commieblock buildings and used for roads and harbour construction. City owns that device for "commieblock destruction", hope they will use it more.
What?????
If you are gonna insultning my city I can bring it on and start to insulting your pro-communist Riga.
We have some commiesblocks in the suburbs but they are certainly not as big houses as the picture shows. Most of the houses has also been renovated with a new fasad. Stockholm certainly not looks like a commieblock city.

"Glass and decorative stuff"?! This doesn't really sound like an effective solution to the rapid deterioration of the outdated Commieblocks and the various social problems that they engender! Maybe such buildings in Denmark are sufficient, but in Lithuania [and I imagine elsewhere in the former Eastern Block] these poorly built, cramped flats with kitchens known as "cupboards" due to their diminuitive size were deliberately designed to diminish the family unit! In a Modern Europe, they are no longer fit for human habitation without a serious renovation. And they're ugly as sin.

Calm down Parzival, all Gatis is saying is that Stockholm is not without it's tower blocks. There's no need to retort with such a childish (and frankly inaccurate) retort.

No need to show your inferiority complexes here @Parzival :D

What?????
If you are gonna insultning my city I can bring it on and start to insulting your pro-communist Riga.
We have some commiesblocks in the suburbs but they are certainly not as big houses as the picture shows. Most of the houses has also been renovated with a new fasad. Stockholm certainly not looks like a commieblock city.

You are so right, there are NO big commies in stockolm

Täby (suburb)
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4075/PICT0031.jpg

also Täby
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/479/PICT0024.jpg

There is antoher as big one in Jakobsberg as well.

just outside down town
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/738/pict00549zk.jpg

Parzival, your denial that Stockholm has, at least in some parts, a commieblockish appearance was disproved in advance of your even making that statement in the recent Stockholm meetup thread by Atlantica and Wolkenkrabber.

Further, your "pro-communist Riga" utterance is not only a cheap shot but also entirely out of line.

I have to agree with mrDenmark, if only we could know that they would build new and more imaginative highrises in stead of tearing down the few we have. Most norwegians think of their fellow humans as vermin, and any visable trace of civilisation as a rape of free, green and noble nature. So, willingly tearing down anything big, is not an option imo.

I'm a skyscraper lover living in poverty in a nation of cold lowrises. :cry:

"Glass and decorative stuff"?! This doesn't really sound like an effective solution to the rapid deterioration of the outdated Commieblocks and the various social problems that they engender! Maybe such buildings in Denmark are sufficient, but in Lithuania [and I imagine elsewhere in the former Eastern Block] these poorly built, cramped flats with kitchens known as "cupboards" due to their diminuitive size were deliberately designed to diminish the family unit! In a Modern Europe, they are no longer fit for human habitation without a serious renovation. And they're ugly as sin.
Luckly enough the Danish quality and maintanence is allright. And the kithens and instalations are normally wel lmade and well equibt.

I would like to see more highrises like those you see in Miami ( tall buildings with balconys and big windows ). That kind will fit right in the area around Ørestaden in Copenhagen. Just a couple of 150meters next to the water...

I´ve found a better picture from what they´re doing in Berlin:

And that´s how it looks like then:

http://www16.gmx.net/de/cgi/thumbnail?CUSTOMERNO=28713863&t=de1607731308.1132062135.192dc2c7&jobid=&nobg=1&folder=%2FMeine+Bilder%2F&file=ahrens%2Ejpg&size=999x6688



The project is called "Ahrensfelder Terassen"!

I can't see the picture; could you perhaps post a link?

hehe parzival :D
funny guy!

yes of course, here´s the link:


http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/wohnen/stadtumbau/de/ahrensfelder/index.shtml

edit

There is a better solution...
http://www.readysetpaint.com/store/Paint%20Set.gif

Edit

@NiceGuy: :? :?

@NiceGuy: :? :? All you need to make commieblocks beautiful is to use some paint. Replace that ugly white-grayish concrete color with lime, yellow, blue, red and orange, and they would look much more attractive. Use a different color on every building to create an illusion of diversity.

IMO the thing about Commies isnt what they look like, but rather their total lack of urbanity... to turn the commie districts nice alot of densification should take place... etc

/\ Word. Just my thoughts.

No painting the blocks would make them look horrific. And as soon as the paint started to peel they would look even worse... And this solution can't affect the overall skyscape [from a distance they would look the same, just garish] and inside they would be just as bad as before.

Quite several buildings in Mustamäe look like that- side walls are often reconstructed, but still front and back walls aren`t. Fortunately commieblock districts will get a nicer appearance step by step.
http://www.felis.ee/img/gal10.jpg
http://www.felis.ee/img/gal11.jpg
http://www.sp.ee/img25.jpg

That's certainly an improvement, but it could only look right on small commieblocks such as the one pictured. To put such homely touches on a massive tower block would look ridiculous! [Although I do seem to recall that they put oriental style roofs on such blocks in Glasgow]

I try again and show some pictures about the project in Berlin:

before:
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/6569/ahrensfelderterrassen233at.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



after:
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/5964/bild119zr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/9108/at011uf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7158/ahrensfelderterrassen248sd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/9730/ahrensfelderterrassen188uk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I agree with ch1le's statement. The commies in Malmö have continously been renovated and the buildings themselves look pretty ok nowadays. It's how the commie-areas are planned that is totally wrong, with large greenery areas between the street and the buildings etc.

Even though the areas are dense (due to the tall and compact buildings) they feel very un-dense due to the urban planning...

Those renovated commies in Mustamäe are even quite cute if we make a comparison between them and the ones in Lasnamäe. But there's still one thing they should definitely do with them - cover those damn prefabricated module borders and paint the facades! Colors must be lively and bright, but calm and natural.

I agree with ch1le's statement. The commies in Malmö have continously been renovated and the buildings themselves look pretty ok nowadays. It's how the commie-areas are planned that is totally wrong, with large greenery areas between the street and the buildings etc.

Even though the areas are dense (due to the tall and compact buildings) they feel very un-dense due to the urban planning...

That's absolutely true - the problem is same here in Finland. Commies can be turned into ok looking, even somehow cozy apartment buildings, but there's still one problem in commie suburbs - silence. Most of them are still dead and silent.

But fortunately that "commie renovation fashion stream" has spread to Finland too (photo by PC):
http://koti.welho.com/pcatani/remp04.jpg

A renovated commie in Stockholm.

http://www.osteraker.se/hagerfors/norrgard2.gif

Looks like a new building.

What?????
If you are gonna insultning my city I can bring it on and start to insulting your pro-communist Riga.
We have some commiesblocks in the suburbs but they are certainly not as big houses as the picture shows. Most of the houses has also been renovated with a new fasad. Stockholm certainly not looks like a commieblock city.

Take it easy dude. Gatis was speaking the truth. There are quite many such houses in Sthlm. Sthlm is however a very beautiful city. Aren't u originally from Bosnia or smth?

thanks for the post Sander.

There is a renovated 9 storey commie next to my commie, just recently got renovated, and they didnt just cover the sidewalls, but the entire facade, ill go check it out as soon as i get rid of this fever :P

It 's not a solution, to my mind the real solution would be to renovate commieblocks- using fresh colors for outside walls and removing all old technics from inside.
P.S. Renovated commieblocks look 100 times better than ugly falling apart houses from 18-19 centuries.

No! Old buildings in a bad state have a dilapidated charm, whereas painted commieblocks are still ugly.

First renovation works of commies in Vilnius are starting. I saw today one commie which is being renovated. I'll search for renderings, how renovated commies will look like.

Renovation is good but total reconstruction is better. The thing is commieblocks does not meet space requirements. The expanding of some living spaces outside of exsting shapes of buildings gives a possibility to make fasades much better. of course archicects could think of painting or using different materials for exteriors.
I've seen such refurbishment projects in Denmark, Arhus. I have nothing bad to say about it.
My suggestion to solve the problem is not only expanding of living areas. Also external walls and partitions (except load bearing) could be removed from ground floor to use these areas like parking. Flats from ground floor could be moved on top floor.

I would never make comieblock districts more dense. It is not good in case of insulation and car parking requirements. There are some urbanistic solutions to use free spaces between commieblocks.......but it is not for this thread.

Unfortunately everything what I said is impossible in most post-soviet countries in next 10-15years. Athorities, communes, regulations, bank, legislation systems, are not ready for that.

Here is some small rendering of commieblock after renovation. Those balconies are newly built:
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6112/untitled14gy.jpg

They will not look very good but that's improvement. They will be "more warmer" (don't know how to say it correctly in English), yards will be renovated, etc.

I remember reading about this in Lietuvos Rytas quite a while back, and I thought this project has already been underway for quite a while in Zirmunai.

I remember reading about this in Lietuvos Rytas quite a while back, and I thought this project has already been underway for quite a while in Zirmunai.
There are loads of problems to start renovation of commieblock. First of all, in one commieblock live many people and they all have their own opinion about renovation of their commie. :)
Anyway, I think that after ~6 months we'll see how renovated commieblock will look like.

They will not look very good but that's improvement. They will be "more warmer" (don't know how to say it correctly in English), yards will be renovated, etc.

Just "warmer" will do fine, Edd. Adjectives usually just require the suffix -er to carry them to the next (comparative) level. This holds particularly for one-syllable ones. "More" is used in the context of more complex words, composites like oblivious or expensive, for instance.

And I agree: those places are bound to look better and warmer once some thought and investment have been expended. :okay:


EDIT: since I hear that commieblock apartments are usually quite small and that there is currently a great urge to give people more living space, it might be a good idea to break through some apartment walls in the process of refurbishment and to combine two old apartments into a single --but much larger -- new one. :)

commies, still i wouldnt like to see renovation... i would like to see demolition...

Ideally what you would do is:

1) Take the wrecking ball to all of those Commie blocks.

2) Replace them with Baroque style apartments like in Vienna, no larger than 4 storeys high. Why not? If you have the resources and the will a small nation like Lithuania could completely transform her cities within 50 years.

3) Also create lovely public parks full of animals like deer etc.. like you get in London.

Neo-Baroque - I like it! Very camp.

And I agree: those places are bound to look better and warmer once some thought and investment have been expended. :okay:
Actually with word "warmer" I meant that commieblocks will be cladded with isolating material which will help to keep warmth inside. Though if we talk about their appearance, they will look warmer too. ;)

let's take them down and place them like this!

iso they go all around the block and maybe a house in the middle dividing them too. that way you get the urba feeling and every house gets it's own park & recreational area. and at the bottom floor of the houses out towards the road there can be store and such things like in a real city
http://k43.pbase.com/u19/mark_elert/medium/16901935.IMG_1756.jpg

You have to have larger residental buildings to. Everyone can't live in each his/her personal house. Would be a disaster to nature. We got to accept that.

However, those prioritated for living in houses would be familys, while single people and students etc can very well live in apratments.

However commieblocks are ugly and what i know, bad quality housing. But you can't aim for replacing them with single houses :P.

The commies where I am (Budapest) look very attractive once painted. Almost like pastel bonbons. Perhaps the one I live in will be done up eventually, though I gather it depends on everyone living in the block and how much spare dosh they have. I am also curious to know what my old commie in Coventry, UK, will look like when it is done up. It did not get torn down like most of the others here....

Ideally what you would do is:

1) Take the wrecking ball to all of those Commie blocks.

2) Replace them with Baroque style apartments like in Vienna, no larger than 4 storeys high. Why not? If you have the resources and the will a small nation like Lithuania could completely transform her cities within 50 years.

3) Also create lovely public parks full of animals like deer etc.. like you get in London.

Are you joking? Commieblocks are a valuable part of architectural and city planning history. Also, tearing down a fully functional commieblock because it's "ugly" is a socio-economic disaster. Imagine what other things that money could go to. Hospitals, preventing crime, schools, improving infrastructure, etc.

Edit: Haha.. Just saw the date of his post there.. 2005. Don't think i'll be getting an answer. Oh well, this is an interesting thread and it deserves a revival.

I would never make comieblock districts more dense. It is not good in case of insulation and car parking requirements.

Well. Isn't it a bit to easy to just go with "it is like it is" and not try to change anything? Denser blocks will create a more urban life. More shops, more people outside, more service. And the lack of parking space can be tackled by 1: Subsurface garages and
2: More public transit.

Many of the commieblock-areas around Stockholm (and yes, we have several, despite earlier comments) are already pretty well serviced with public transport systems. Either the subway or by commuter trains. Car usage in the areas supported by the subway systems are fairly low already, a further urbanisation and infills would just strengthen the situation for the public transit system.

We cant continue to plan our living conditions based on the idea that we have to drive everywhere so we might just get on with what needs to be done.