Taken from Building Magazine.....

Broadway Malyan to design scheme for Fourth Grace site

£80m mixed-use project to replace Alsop’s ‘Cloud’ in time for Liverpool’s reign as European City of Culture.


11 November, 2005

Architect Broadway Malyan is to design Liverpool’s Fourth Grace in Liverpool, Building can reveal. The building will replace Will Alsop’s “Cloud”, which was rejected by the council in July last year.

The £80m mixed-use project for Neptune Developments and Countryside Properties will include 370 residential units, 6500 m2 of leisure and 10,000 m2 of office space. It will also include enclosed public realm areas and open space around a canal basin.

Designs are being drawn up and will be submitted for planning in February.

A source close to the project said: “The design is absolutely fantastic. It will be a flagship design for the architect.”

But other insiders said Broadway Malyan had to tread a fine line with its plans. The practice had to produce a design innovative enough to follow Alsop but uncontentious enough to avoid being held up in the planning system.

The scheme has to be ready by 2008, when Liverpool becomes the European Capital of Culture.

The development will share the Mann Island site with the Museum of Liverpool, designed by architect 3XN. This building, in the shape of an X, was criticised by Cabe’s design review panel on the grounds that it did not fit in with its surroundings.

Alsop’s Cloud was rejected over fears of how much it would cost to build. After several redesigns the funders behind the project – Liverpool council, the North West Development Agency and Museums Liverpool – feared the scheme would lose its £37m European Objective One funding.

After that decision, Neptune and Countryside threatened to sue the NWDA for the £5m that it said it had spent on the scrapped scheme. The two developers also claimed that they had a binding agreement with the NWDA that gave them an option to buy the site in the event of the project being abandoned.

They eventually received £1.4m, as well as £1.5m in the form of a deduction from the purchase price of the land.

Alsop last week announced fresh plans to make his mark on Liverpool with a building described as the city’s “third cathedral”.

The architect is in talks with the chief executive of the Liverpool Biennial, a contemporary visual arts festival that takes place every two years, to build a structure for the 2008 festival.

He is working with artist Bruce McLean, to build a structure 20 m2 in area and 12 m high. It is not yet known if it will be permanent.

Next year’s biennial runs from 16 September to 26 November.

Sounds promising, given the site in question in would be a bit much to expect a tower of any significant height, but based on the figures we have above, can anyone hazard a guess at the building make-up we might be looking at for the development?

That's a pretty hefty development, not too far short of what Alsop planning in terms of sq footage is it?

The development will share the Mann Island site with the Museum of Liverpool, designed by architect 3XN. This building, in the shape of an X, was criticised by Cabe’s design review panel on the grounds that it did not fit in with its surroundings.

This is a bit of an over-simplification of what CABE said. Their Design Review is here. (http://www.cabe.org.uk/review/reports/reports.asp?id=302)

Good to hear that a big-name practice is involved in the Mann Island site.

Sounds promising, given the site in question in would be a bit much to expect a tower of any significant height, but based on the figures we have above, can anyone hazard a guess at the building make-up we might be looking at for the development?

Chris, the planning brief does give a good indication on what can be built on this site, it will consist of two main blocks. The first block will sit behind the new museum with a canal basin between the buildings, the height must be no higher than the Albert Dock group, 24M. The second building will sit on the corner of the Strand and Mann Island and must be no higher than 60M (the height of Tunnel Vent Building) and no lower than 40M (the height of the Cunard Building) I quote form the report "providing the design achieves an accptable standard ,heights may be increased to create a "flourish".

Anything is better than a few indusrial buildings and a Porche show room

Taken from Building Magazine.....

Broadway Malyan to design scheme for Fourth Grace site

£80m mixed-use project to replace Alsop’s ‘Cloud’ in time for Liverpool’s reign as European City of Culture..

Super J,thanks for posting this excellent info, Broadway Malyan do have a good reputation, take a look at the 3 NV Towers that they designed for Salford Quays. We have been waiting for news on this important site, I would hope that the City Planning Dept. is fully manned up, their workload at present must be enormous with so many large projects being planned.

Here are some designs from the Broadway Malyan site.


Dubai http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2887/dubai6nh.jpg (http://imageshack.us) Belfast http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7969/obelbelfast8ux.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Stratford Edge, Londonhttp://img506.imageshack.us/img506/9428/stratfordedge5am.jpg (http://imageshack.us) Vauxhall Tower, Londonhttp://img506.imageshack.us/img506/4099/vauxhalltower6ei.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I wouldn't mind seeing one of these on site but I don't think LCC would give PP for Vauxhall Tower!!

That Belfast project looks very Beetham-esque!

That Belfast project looks very Beetham-esque!
Yes, I was thinking the same. I thought it was the origional Beetham renders until I looked at the base.

Sorry - I totally misread this thread - I thought it meant that a Burger King was going to be built on the 4th Grace Site

Much more relieved now - I was concerned that a Double Whopper would infringe WHS height restrictions.

:runaway:

Sorry - I totally misread this thread - I thought it meant that a Burger King was going to be built on the 4th Grace Site

Much more relieved now - I was concerned that a Double Whopper would infringe WHS height restrictions.

:runaway:

Don`t worry LAB, Burger King no way , its STARBUCKS who plan to open a 15 storey outlet on Mann Island, a bit of class at last on this very sensitive site.

I know you're joking Woody but if we can have a Starbucks pop up opposite our town hall, they could appear anywhere. I suppose it's inevitable within the PSDA, but I hope within all the other developments planned for Liverpool we steer clear of McDonald's Burger King, Starbucks, Tesco, and other companies that are appearing just a bit too often on our streets. Lets have a bit of choice with more unique, one of a kind offerings.

I know Americans always have a joke at the sheer number of Starbucks they have, but it's Subway which I'm more concerned by. There's 10 in Liverpool already, and they have plans to have 2010 UK outlets in the UK by 2010. For reference they currently only have 475. This agressive type of expansion really isn't good.

I know you're joking Woody but if we can have a Starbucks pop up opposite our town hall, they could appear anywhere. I suppose it's inevitable within the PSDA, but I hope within all the other developments planned for Liverpool we steer clear of McDonald's Burger King, Starbucks, Tesco, and other companies that are appearing just a bit too often on our streets. Lets have a bit of choice with more unique, one of a kind offerings.

I know Americans always have a joke at the sheer number of Starbucks they have, but it's Subway which I'm more concerned by. There's 10 in Liverpool already, and they have plans to have 2010 UK outlets in the UK by 2010. For reference they currently only have 475. This agressive type of expansion really isn't good.

I agree 100% with all you say, I was reading in the press that London had 220 Starbucks , that 30 MORE than in Manhatten, New York. If this continues we should skip having Euro`s and ditch the pound for $$$$$$$$$$$$$

where did you find this???

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/9428/stratfordedge5am.jpg

Goth

http://www.broadwaymalyan.com/projects/architecture/residential/stratford-edge.cfm?region=l&page=2

ahhh yes its 80-92 stratford high street, hadnt seen an image of it before but it was previously listed. thanks anyway!

I know you're joking Woody but if we can have a Starbucks pop up opposite our town hall, they could appear anywhere. I suppose it's inevitable within the PSDA, but I hope within all the other developments planned for Liverpool we steer clear of McDonald's Burger King, Starbucks, Tesco, and other companies that are appearing just a bit too often on our streets. Lets have a bit of choice with more unique, one of a kind offerings.

I know Americans always have a joke at the sheer number of Starbucks they have, but it's Subway which I'm more concerned by. There's 10 in Liverpool already, and they have plans to have 2010 UK outlets in the UK by 2010. For reference they currently only have 475. This agressive type of expansion really isn't good.

Better Starbucks than No bucks!

Liverpool already has a highly successful, home-grown retail enterprise in the form of Quiggins. Much loved by consumers, providing a local, alternative retail experience that is of a very high standard. What's happened to them? They're waiting for the council to allow them to get back to business.

If you want to know what contributes to crappy clone towns it's arrogant, interfering councils that stand in the way of the very people who pay for their badly spent budgets.
Emperor Storey doesn't think the desired move of Quiggins is 'suitable'- What the fuck does it have to do with him? And why does he think his tastes should decide the fate of an excellent business and the range of choice for local people?

... :gaah:

Subway will be everywhere soon -they are the largest franchise in the world (about 24,000 stores) even bigger than McDonalds etc.

With more Europeans being exposed to US brands it seems to me they are looking to have access to those same brands in the UK.

Franchising is a standard business model here and will continue as a trend but its nothing new - I saw a McDonalds in an 'medievel' square in Luxembourg about 20years ago.

Watch out for Krispy Creme Donuts and Cold Stone Creamery coming to your side of the pond soon !

Watch out for Krispy Creme Donuts and Cold Stone Creamery coming to your side of the pond soon !

Oh no not more "plastic fast food" cann`t wait, :eat: :puke: :toilet: :goodbye:

Nice cartoon there Woody. Soon there will be enough smilies so we don't have to type anything :)

shame is that theres some great food here in the US but only the worst seems to make it to being 'globalized'. Theres a burger chain here in Socal called 'In&Out' with some of the best burgers anywhere.

Same with beer - most self respecting Americans I know will not touch Budweiser etc.

I think we should plan revenge by flooding the US with Sayers !! They dont know what a good pork pie or cornish pastie looks like over here. Can someone email me one over - Im hungry now!

There are plenty of unique local sandwich shops in Liverpool city centre, the thing with a brand like SUBWAY is that it is easily recognised, thus easy to find and you know the standard. I have tried Subway and they are delicious though. I always like to try different local places before the megaBig franchises.

The local places can be better than chains - if you know where to find them. It can be real pot luck.

There used to be a great butty place in Central Station but I think its closed now . :(

Trouble is if youre are from out of town at least you know what you are going to get at a chain and at a reasonable price so its easier to dive into a Subway or Burger King.

By the way Krispy Creme Donuts and Cold Stone Creamery are both great - Cold Stones has the 'Starbucks' niche in designer ice cream - $8each! but made to die for.

Watch out for Krispy Creme Donuts and Cold Stone Creamery coming to your side of the pond soon !

There are several Krispy Cremes in London Already!

I wouldn't mind Carl's Jnr. and Johnny Rocket's opening over here, although that would probably take the shine off it when I go on holiday.

Is it still 80 degrees over there? The weather perked up just as I was leaving...

Nice cartoon there Woody. Soon there will be enough smilies so we don't have to type anything :)

:yes: :laugh: :okay:

Do you think we should be getting back on thread, and throw all this junk food over into the skybar? :wink2: :blahblah:

whoosh ! ....

The way this conversation's been going, some might think the 'whopper' planned for the 4th Grace site is a Hambuger! :laugh:

Exciting news. I look forward to hearing more...