View Full Version : LONDON | Broadgate Tower | 165m | 35 fl | Com
Peyre November 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1639BroadgateTower_pic3.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7089/londonbroadgatesv4.jpg
Pictures of site will be added, many forumers have noticed lots of activity on site :)
The Mad Hatter!! November 19th, 2005, 05:37 PM whoa finally a london design i like,the structural expressionism looks great on this building i really like the diagonal cross x bracings really give it a nice touch,the base of this building looks fantasic and bit bulky but can look pretty good from certain angles/.
Peyre November 19th, 2005, 06:09 PM Will, Goths site says underconstruction, and it was expected to start in December, but there is lots of activity on site atm.
Oh and chop, chop, fix that rendering :D
Marcanadian November 19th, 2005, 11:40 PM A bit fat looking but suits London very well. Its a nice tower
Effer November 19th, 2005, 11:43 PM Love the design!
Newcastle Guy November 20th, 2005, 02:02 PM Hello, i'm back.
Wow, i can't believe it is this actually U/C now?
This is gonna be the first tall tower construction ive followed in London
Any pics of the site yet?
Pedrillo November 20th, 2005, 02:21 PM I love the dessign. The building is massive.
Newcastle Guy November 20th, 2005, 03:28 PM http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1639BroadgateTower_pic1.jpg
My favourite pic of the tower
Peyre November 20th, 2005, 03:42 PM although it won't be that slim, jeez you wouldn't have space to walk :D
Bertez November 20th, 2005, 04:06 PM I like
Newcastle Guy November 20th, 2005, 04:08 PM Is there any renders of it on the skyline along side T42 and Swiss Re yet?
Phobos November 20th, 2005, 07:04 PM This tower looks fat and it won't add anything to London's skyline IMO.
Jose Luis November 20th, 2005, 08:01 PM Not bad.
eXSBass November 20th, 2005, 08:06 PM Its modest.
zerokarma November 21st, 2005, 01:18 AM It is an interesting design, a little squarish but I like it.
Kostic_from_essen November 21st, 2005, 10:22 AM not my tpye of buildings but still good for the sklyine!A goop gap filler ;)
Dennis November 21st, 2005, 01:56 PM http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/london2012/23.jpg
holy shit guys, you got to be kidding :eek:
Spearman November 21st, 2005, 10:15 PM Nice as an "inbetween" tower; it won't carry the load of representing London, but than again it doesn't need to. I think it will be a great as an ordinary, boxy, no nonsense counterpiece to the beautiful Bishopsgate Tower.
Urban Dave November 22nd, 2005, 10:50 PM :omg: A really massive tower!
John November 23rd, 2005, 01:06 AM Is this tower really U/C? That's fantastic! How come I didn't know about this before?
Peyre November 23rd, 2005, 12:23 PM It was always predicicted to start in December, even when Bishopsgate was annouced in the summer
Newcastle Guy November 24th, 2005, 06:05 PM It has now been confirmed by british land. Also it is said to be completed for 2008.
Mr Bricks November 25th, 2005, 10:35 AM where will broadgate be in this pic?
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/9173/londonskyline6bw.jpg (http://img506.imageshack.us/my.php?image=londonskyline6bw.jpg)
And will it be visible in this pic? If, then where?
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/4924/skyline6at.jpg (http://img506.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skyline6at.jpg)
wjfox November 25th, 2005, 09:56 PM I doubt it will be visible from there.
Mr Bricks November 25th, 2005, 10:15 PM but the first pic? Where will it be?
wjfox November 25th, 2005, 11:18 PM To the left of St Paul's, off the edge of the image, in the distance.
Mr Bricks November 26th, 2005, 12:01 AM Why so far from the cluster?? The tower won´t change the skyline at all! has anyone got a render of broadgate tower together with the city cluster, so we get to see how far away it will be??
Peyre December 1st, 2005, 03:17 PM Web Cams up
http://www.britishland.com/content/images/201WebCam/images/camputer3.jpg
http://www.britishland.com/content/images/201WebCam/images/camputer30.jpg
and a new render
http://www.britishland.com/images/201-Visuals_2_0001.jpg
jonovision December 1st, 2005, 05:40 PM Could you post the link for the webcam?
Alex54 December 1st, 2005, 05:48 PM This is the link
http://www.britishland.com/page.aspx?theLang=001lngdef&pointerid=69E11633342343B4A73006514E995BCA
Newcastle Guy December 1st, 2005, 05:51 PM Nice!
Arch December 1st, 2005, 08:41 PM Quite increadible considering the whole thing will be suspended over nine railway lines. Yet anothe city expansion to the northeast. Bishopsgate on one side and Algate on the other. You could draw a line between rich and poor. Its almost like the city is this unstopable steam roller towards brick lane, clearing away the Algate slums. And may it roll on to Canary Wharf, then the skyline will truly be increadible. :okay:
wjfox December 1st, 2005, 09:31 PM Why so far from the cluster?? The tower won´t change the skyline at all! has anyone got a render of broadgate tower together with the city cluster, so we get to see how far away it will be??
It will make a hell of a difference when viewed from the north.
And it's not THAT far away. Sure, it won't be packed amongst the other towers (Heron, DIFA, Leadenhall, etc.), but it will still be close enough to be considered part of the main City cluster.
And don't forget, there are plans for a couple of other towers nearby.
Muse December 1st, 2005, 09:34 PM Loving the cross-bracing on these towers :okay:
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1639BroadgateTower_pic3.jpg
http://www.pipers.co.uk/source/models/gallery/gallerypics/201_bish_01.jpg
http://www.pipers.co.uk/source/models/gallery/gallerypics/201_bish_00.jpg
Phobos December 1st, 2005, 09:40 PM The glassy roof connecting the lower part of the tower with the main one is very nice.But that's all :D
Peyre December 2nd, 2005, 02:15 PM if this cladding is as good as the render (they should get intouch with whoever did plantation place) then this will be a quality addition, not just to the northern skyline, but also the ground level around there.
Urban Dave December 2nd, 2005, 02:24 PM Great! The shape of the building is very visible in the structure now!
wjfox March 4th, 2006, 02:41 PM A crane is arriving on site - the core is about to begin rising!
http://i2.tinypic.com/qozo5f.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/qozqra.jpg
Mosaic March 4th, 2006, 05:11 PM That's such a lovely project.
weird March 4th, 2006, 05:26 PM Nothing special :wink2:
Xander March 4th, 2006, 05:39 PM ^people from Madrid are turning into such skyscraper snobs just because they are getting 4 (admitedly beautiful) skyscrapers. Don't get carried away mate, its not that great. you will still have an average to below average skyline!
Mosaic March 6th, 2006, 11:31 AM So many great projects in London.
wjfox March 31st, 2006, 07:46 PM A 2nd crane is arriving on site.
http://i2.tinypic.com/so4go2.jpg
Marcanadian March 31st, 2006, 11:36 PM London sure does have a lot of weird towers U/C and proposed. This looks like the BOC in HK, although I dont think the criss cross pattern really suits the building...
wjfox April 9th, 2006, 11:55 AM Looks like they're starting on the ground floor:-
http://i2.tinypic.com/takc1t.jpg
R@ptor April 9th, 2006, 04:48 PM Gotta love all the construction webcams in London. Something like this should be mandatory for all huge construction projects around the world :)
Skyman April 9th, 2006, 06:26 PM Nice to see the construction plot in real
Mosaic April 10th, 2006, 09:09 AM it's such a busy site.
wjfox April 18th, 2006, 02:03 PM 2nd crane is now fully set up. :cool:
http://i3.tinypic.com/vry7au.jpg
SimLim April 18th, 2006, 02:08 PM Lets hope to see this rise, should be a great addition the the ever growing London skyline :)
Peyre April 18th, 2006, 07:11 PM Hmm, I'll have a look at the site tomorrow, heh, those cranes will probably reach 180m+
If ya think the Limey is getting tall and will make an impact on the skyline, then.....
maybe not from the usual Waterloo bridge view, but it will definately be visible in other parts.
wjfox April 18th, 2006, 07:51 PM those cranes will probably reach 180m+
Oh, I think they'll reach higher than that.
Lime Street has only reached about 100m and already the main crane is higher than Tower 42.
TallBox April 18th, 2006, 07:58 PM ^people from Madrid are turning into such skyscraper snobs just because they are getting 4 (admitedly beautiful) skyscrapers. Don't get carried away mate, its not that great. you will still have an average to below average skyline!
don't be over-senstive now... the broadgate tower is nothing special. if it were being built in toronto or san fran, it would never been given anything like the attention it receives for being in london.
Peyre April 18th, 2006, 08:55 PM it remains to be seen, the cladding, details and implementation of street level redevelopment will be pretty darn good IMO
dom April 18th, 2006, 10:06 PM I would totally agree with the Spanish forumer who remarked that this building was nothing special. However, for the City skyline it will make a huge difference.
It will irrovocably change the atmosphere of Bishopsgate area, transforming it from a midrise realm full of groundscapers and 3-4 storey townhouses (typified by Broadgate, the new Allen & Overy hq and the quaint Bishopsgate Institute) to a fully fledged highrise area. The bulk of this tower will be considerable.
When the Heron Tower and its smaller sibling, Heron Plaza are completed in 2010/11 the transformation of Bishopsgate will be well on the way. Hopefully the Bishopsgate Tower at 1016ft will be completed before the 2012 Olympics showing that the City has completely reinvented itself for the modern age.
I can't overstate how different the City will feel after these skyscrapers have been built. Lime Street and the Gherkin have already made a massive difference to the area.
Muse April 19th, 2006, 01:13 AM don't be over-senstive now... the broadgate tower is nothing special. if it were being built in toronto or san fran, it would never been given anything like the attention it receives for being in london.I guess also traditionally we don't associate scrapers with London City as much as such cities mentioned. So for London it is relatively tall, and that is the word, "relative".
wjfox April 20th, 2006, 01:53 PM A 3rd crane is going up :cheers:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4646/camputer306jf.jpg
Peyre April 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM Yes, its very exciting for us Londoners when very tall tower cranes go up :D
wjfox April 21st, 2006, 10:28 PM 3rd crane is now fully cranked up, and they're putting together a 4th crane at the southern end of the site (nearest the camera).
http://i3.tinypic.com/w1uqsm.jpg
wjfox April 26th, 2006, 08:12 PM 4th crane is up.
Btw - this building will be topped out by December.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wisw1d.jpg
R@ptor April 27th, 2006, 12:19 AM Btw - this building will be topped out by December.
December 2007 I assume.
Peyre April 27th, 2006, 12:21 PM erm nope. The core will have topped out by Christmas. It won't be complete and ready for use until 2008
wjfox April 27th, 2006, 08:38 PM December 2007 I assume.
As Peyre says - December 2006. :)
This building will go up super-fast...
TallBox April 28th, 2006, 01:43 AM ^ WTF!!
What kind of construction methods are they using that's allowing a building to go up so fast?!
Why can't this be applied to other London 'scrapers (once they actually start construction)?
London_guy May 3rd, 2006, 08:21 PM As Peyre says - December 2006. :)
This building will go up super-fast...
:cheers:
eXSBass May 3rd, 2006, 08:51 PM ^ WTF!!
What kind of construction methods are they using that's allowing a building to go up so fast?!
Why can't this be applied to other London 'scrapers (once they actually start construction)?
Steel core, not conrete. All they do is put it all toegether like a giant meccano set :)
Dan1987 May 4th, 2006, 01:22 PM Update: Above-ground steelwork is beginning to rise, only 30-35 weeks(6-7months) left until it tops out at 164m :cool:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8136/camputer302hs.jpg
wjfox May 18th, 2006, 08:01 PM Extra large rendering -
http://www.britishland.com/images/201-CGI.jpg
wjfox May 23rd, 2006, 08:56 PM Night-time rendering -
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/344/2232/1600/broadgate%20and%20201%20bishopsgate%20render%203.1.jpg
Dan1987 May 23rd, 2006, 09:08 PM Current structural status.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2692/camputer39pw.jpg
wjfox May 28th, 2006, 11:29 PM Pics by DarJoLe:
http://static.flickr.com/56/155010620_a3e93f8462_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/48/155010618_a3e93f8462_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/60/155010617_ddf63895ac_o.jpg
jonovision May 29th, 2006, 01:14 AM That was really fast! Is there going to be a concrete core?
forvine May 29th, 2006, 07:24 AM Great and sleek tower
Tubeman May 29th, 2006, 08:35 AM That was really fast! Is there going to be a concrete core?
No, 100% steelwork like SwissRe
DocShergar June 1st, 2006, 02:01 PM Wow looks nice.
I'll have to take a visit to London later in the year to get a closer look at Broadgate and the others in Bishopsgate.
wjfox June 18th, 2006, 10:33 PM Look for the red cranes in the middle of the pano. This gives a really good indication of where it will stand in relation to both the City and Canary Wharf clusters (credit to John of SSP for this pic)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/449/pict20393ob.jpg
2012 renderings by me (note that LBT (http://www.shardlondonbridge.com/) would be visible just off to the right) -
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers2/london2012/25.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers2/london2012/27.jpg
DocShergar June 19th, 2006, 10:16 AM Wow!! That skyline is really going to change!!
Brilliant!
Mosaic June 19th, 2006, 10:23 AM Skyline of London in 2012 looks amazing.
wjfox June 19th, 2006, 10:27 AM Not wishing to brag, but we have even more proposals not included in this rendering. These include:
80-88 Bishopsgate (192m)
Northgate Tower (180m)
Plus LBT (310m) which would stand just off the right edge of this view. Then a little further to the right, you'd see Beetham Tower (220m), 20 Blackfriars Road (176m), and the Doon Street Tower (168m).
Mosaic June 19th, 2006, 10:38 AM Oh! I don't realize that,thanks
matt_sbs June 19th, 2006, 01:40 PM interesting development, would it fit the skyline
wjfox June 23rd, 2006, 07:26 PM http://i4.tinypic.com/15ejuds.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/15ejvci.jpg
Madman June 23rd, 2006, 10:07 PM Looking good, not too long before we start to see the frame popping above the roofline of the area.
Erebus555 June 23rd, 2006, 10:11 PM It is coming along well. It does look boxy from the side and someone could easily be fooled into tihnking it was one of them 1960's things but from the front its great. I can't wait to see it shoot up out the ground.
nano2192 June 24th, 2006, 01:03 AM Now tht's what i'm talking about.Stunning Project!!
Chad June 24th, 2006, 03:44 AM Growing damn fast!!! :eek:
snail456 June 24th, 2006, 08:25 AM http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers2/london2012/25.jpg
The columbus tower has been shelved now because the owner of the site sold it on...shame...that was a great looking tower.
snail456 June 24th, 2006, 08:27 AM http://i4.tinypic.com/15ejuds.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/15ejvci.jpg
bloody hell thats fast...hope the build quality is still great though.
How is it anchered to the ground if theres no concrete core...steel being driven into the ground?
hella good June 24th, 2006, 09:23 AM is it me or is the diagonal bracing of the building not following the rendering?
in fact its facing the opposite direction....its rather confusing.
i love the tower though. i cant wait till it starts rising above the skyline
Mosaic June 24th, 2006, 10:26 AM That's surprisingly fast!!!. very efficient though.
ironfighter June 24th, 2006, 11:15 AM The steel frame is bearing on the Raft steel which was erected over the Railway about 10 years ago.
Same Steel Co.who are erecting 51 Lime st. !!!!
U.K June 24th, 2006, 11:43 AM Thats an excellent building anybody no what has happened to the Minevra building? any news on minevra anybody?
wjfox June 24th, 2006, 11:45 AM Thats an excellent building anybody no what has happened to the Minevra building? any news on minevra anybody?
"Minevra"? What's that?
CrazyMac June 24th, 2006, 11:57 AM "Minevra"? What's that?
Dont be nasty....you know what he means.... :)
wjfox June 24th, 2006, 12:00 PM Sorry but I can't stand bad spelling. :)
Dan1987 June 24th, 2006, 12:07 PM is it me or is the diagonal bracing of the building not following the rendering?
in fact its facing the opposite direction....its rather confusing.
I noticed that too
hella good June 26th, 2006, 11:37 PM its actually slightly annoying me now, because i really want to know why they are building it the other way around...
NothingBetterToDo June 28th, 2006, 06:22 PM ^^ Somone tell the builders....QUICK, they are reading the building instructions wrong....
Just like when you make somtime out of Lego....or that damn Flatpack furniture........it all seems good when you begin, but if somthing is slightly misplaced a few stages down the line it all fucks up and you can't make head nor tail of anything.
:):);)
Valia June 28th, 2006, 08:39 PM this building is quite similar to another ones, but no bad
U.K June 29th, 2006, 12:57 AM Heres the webcamshttp://www.britishland.com/content/images/201WebCam/images/camputer3.jpg
http://www.britishland.com/content/images/201WebCam/images/camputer30.jpg
westisbest June 29th, 2006, 07:23 AM so much rust, why can't they use the better way, concrete
oriental_horizon June 29th, 2006, 07:31 AM once this is built, its going to be iconic and idiosyncratic just like the tower bridge and big ben has always been a international london landmarks.
TallBox June 29th, 2006, 07:38 AM ^it's just a box
ironfighter June 29th, 2006, 08:27 AM so much rust, why can't they use the better way, concrete
Concrete! 120 years of Iron fighting and you want Concrete!
The only way to build scrapers is in steel !!! :bash:
ironfighter June 29th, 2006, 08:30 AM ^^ Somone tell the builders....QUICK, they are reading the building instructions wrong....
Just like when you make somtime out of Lego....or that damn Flatpack furniture........it all seems good when you begin, but if somthing is slightly misplaced a few stages down the line it all fucks up and you can't make head nor tail of anything.
:):);)
Are you living in cookoo land or what !! These guys are professionals, One piece at a time thats how they build it!! Just like a well oiled Machine!!!!
:bash:
Tubeman June 29th, 2006, 10:39 AM Bloody hell at this rate it'll be finished by lunchtime next Thursday... Its flying up!
warcry June 29th, 2006, 05:52 PM WOAH THAT IS SO QUICK LOADS HAS GONE UP THIS WEEK!
hella good June 30th, 2006, 01:17 AM Are you living in cookoo land or what !! These guys are professionals, One piece at a time thats how they build it!! Just like a well oiled Machine!!!!
:bash:
it was a joke dude :)
U.K July 5th, 2006, 01:11 AM :) The building is getting built really fast
wjfox July 16th, 2006, 10:35 AM http://i2.tinypic.com/205th1g.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/205thtf.jpg
ZZ-II July 16th, 2006, 02:33 PM Good updates, London Rises
Sonic from Padova July 16th, 2006, 02:40 PM Thanks for the updates wjfox! I like this project, and this part of the city (because is full of interesting projects) !
wjfox July 19th, 2006, 08:25 PM Couple of pics I took earlier -
http://www.willfox.com/images2/skyscrapers2/broadgate/construction/1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/Broadgate-2.jpg
snail456 July 22nd, 2006, 07:42 AM ugh...cant see how that mass of iron is gonna turn into the beautiful building that its supposed to be at the moment. It looks like a 3 year olds been let loose with a K-nex kit.
wjfox July 22nd, 2006, 02:04 PM Some of that steelwork is only temporary, apparently.
wjfox July 22nd, 2006, 11:58 PM More pics.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/3.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/4.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/5.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/6.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/7.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/8.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/9.jpg
wjfox August 2nd, 2006, 12:20 AM One of my pics from yesterday -
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/9-1.jpg
Tubeman August 2nd, 2006, 02:41 AM ... And just think Heron's going to rise slapbang in the middle of this pic :)
I think you can safely say that in a couple of years one building you won't be able to see from the Willis building will be Broadgate
wjfox August 2nd, 2006, 10:25 AM Yes - Heron Tower, Heron Plaza, and 80 Bishopsgate will completely obscure this view.
wjfox August 10th, 2006, 10:10 PM Floorplates have started going on.
http://i5.tinypic.com/246wdj9.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/246wdw9.jpg
Muse August 10th, 2006, 10:27 PM ^^ Seemingly such a large site and a complicated construction process.
Thanks for the construction updates wjfox2002.
It's going to prove a great tower for the London skyline, without a doubt :okay:
wjfox August 10th, 2006, 10:40 PM It's going to prove a great tower for the London skyline, without a doubt :okay:
Hmm... I'm not so sure.
I'm a bit worried about its bulk and the effect it will have on St Paul's cathedral.
Muse August 10th, 2006, 10:48 PM ^^ Despite what I posted above your comment, your reply/opinion has to respected. Afterall, you are a Londoner.
El_Greco August 10th, 2006, 10:58 PM Hmm... I'm not so sure.
I'm a bit worried about its bulk and the effect it will have on St Paul's cathedral.
and its too far from the main cluster...
Melanie B August 11th, 2006, 01:52 AM I think we have to move on from this continued discussion on any new building in the city being related to the sightlines from an individual building such as St Pauls, there are many other equally interesting old buildings in the city, what about The Fire of London mounument? What about the city wall etc. New and old can be sited alongside each other and co-exist harmoniously, this has been the case throughout history, one parameter of a building such as height is one one parameter, tall does not mean un harmonious. Move on guys and build the city of the future not one of the past.
DocShergar August 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM Being watching this buiding daily on the web cam as it is moving quite quickly.
I agree with Melanie B. Try to look at building in their own merit.
Does it matter that this building is too far away from the main cluster? In 10 years time it may be part of a bigger cluster.
Muse August 11th, 2006, 03:25 PM Does it matter that this building is too far away from the main cluster? In 10 years time it may be part of a bigger cluster.Ah, thank Christ. A man with some foresight!
chest August 12th, 2006, 01:24 AM its only about a 3 minute walk from the main cluster - though it looks a lot further
http://homepage.mac.com/benveasey/.Pictures/51aug.jpg
London August 12th, 2006, 01:40 AM It isnt even a 3 minute walk... more like a matter of seconds! You'll be suprised at how close it is, from ground level anyway...
Tubeman August 12th, 2006, 04:51 PM Being watching this buiding daily on the web cam as it is moving quite quickly.
I agree with Melanie B. Try to look at building in their own merit.
Does it matter that this building is too far away from the main cluster? In 10 years time it may be part of a bigger cluster.
The 'gap' between this building and the main City cluster can never be fully filled in, as it appears behind St Paul's Cathedral from the most famous viewpoint (Waterloo Bridge). The only hope is for a second cluster to form at the top end of Bishopsgate, perhaps on the goodsyard site.
jimbo August 12th, 2006, 05:27 PM It isnt even a 3 minute walk... more like a matter of seconds! You'll be suprised at how close it is, from ground level anyway...
eh? seconds? unless you're at a full sprint, I think not. The site of Heron Tower is 'seconds' from Crosby Court (site of Bishopsgate Tower, and Tower 42), but for Broadgate you have a five minute walk up along Bishopsgate past the start of Middlesex Street and Liverpool Street Station and the new Hammerson development at Spitalfields Market. Mind you, I only walk or cycle it in rush hour when the pavements and roads are crammed.
Great photo chest.
jimbo August 12th, 2006, 05:30 PM The 'gap' between this building and the main City cluster can never be fully filled in, as it appears behind St Paul's Cathedral from the most famous viewpoint (Waterloo Bridge). The only hope is for a second cluster to form at the top end of Bishopsgate, perhaps on the goodsyard site.
....which may happen as there are towers planned for the Bishopsgate goodsyards and Norton Folgate IIRC.
London August 12th, 2006, 05:45 PM eh? seconds? unless you're at a full sprint, I think not.
Try it... I commute there regularly. And like i said you'll be suprised. Oh and by the way, dont take what i said so literally... "matter of seconds" = less than 3mins.
Tubeman August 12th, 2006, 07:06 PM ....which may happen as there are towers planned for the Bishopsgate goodsyards and Norton Folgate IIRC.
There was an enormous development mooted for the site with several towers ranging up to 70 stories some years back, but I think it was dismissed as being too big for the area... Someone with a better memory may be able to better inform you?
wjfox August 12th, 2006, 07:18 PM Northgate (http://www.skyscrapernews.com/buildings.php?id=4713) is a mixed-use tower being planned next to Broadgate and is thought to be around 180m/50 storeys. It's still in pre-planning, but from the information we have, it seems very likely to go ahead.
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/4713Northgate_pic1.jpg
Then there's 30 Crown Place (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314973), an 80m midrise which recently began construction.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/622/13hc.jpg
wjfox August 12th, 2006, 07:22 PM It isnt even a 3 minute walk... more like a matter of seconds! You'll be suprised at how close it is, from ground level anyway...
You must be a very fast walker. :)
Skabbymuff August 22nd, 2006, 07:14 PM ^ l like that picture of the skyline chest posted up there :)
wjfox August 22nd, 2006, 09:18 PM http://i8.tinypic.com/259wm75.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/259wmdj.jpg
Munch August 22nd, 2006, 09:39 PM London's right though! It isnt that far! Whenever i come through Liverpool Street Station enroute somewhere if i have a few minutes i will take a walk down to the square with Aviva tower.
For a tower of this size, once you get to Liverpool Street Station on Bishopsgate i think it can be considered within reach, it will be visually very connected to the main cluster.
As for the St. Paul's views.... they are important. What we have here is the opportunity to maintain highlighting one of the most awesome cathedral domes found in any world leading city... and if we don't have to compromise that then i don't think we should.
St. Paul's doesnt stunt the city, it's the airport that causes heights to be cut down.
Further, the low rise elements caused by St. Paul's actually create wonderful dips that allow you to see what is around you. Once the current spate of towers has been built the views around the Liverpool Street Station area will be spectacular because you will be able to be so close yet still see alot of towers within one view. If there were towers everywhere you would of course be limited to what is immediately around you.
wjfox August 31st, 2006, 09:12 PM Posted by SE9 in the UK forum -
I don't know if these have been posted.. so I may as well post them now:
http://static.flickr.com/77/202676002_9926bf4c00_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/74/202675865_6588393081_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/61/202675930_a5a437b643_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/59/202675798_c29224ff5f_o.jpg
european September 1st, 2006, 01:02 PM Wow amazing model, it looks very slim from some angles.
DocShergar September 1st, 2006, 04:18 PM GREAT MODEL!! Gives a good idea of the size.
Good to compare it to the webcam pictures.
Cheers Wjfox
wjfox September 9th, 2006, 05:28 PM It's nearly tall enough to be a midrise now.
A site tour is available next weekend as part of Open House (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=374640).
http://i4.tinypic.com/43z8ztv.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2d7widw.jpg
wjfox September 10th, 2006, 01:24 PM Some pics from the UK forum.
Some updates from today, really is full steam at Broadgate, lots of steel being whinched up by cranes. Past the new ABN Amro and RBS Buildings on the way up - only lowrises but quite nice and look quite strange at certain angles.
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/7195/img1779le2.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5170/img1782ay1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/373/img1783lk9.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/39/img1786xo9.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9555/img1789wc0.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4928/img1790sb6.jpg
european September 10th, 2006, 08:02 PM Oh my, its risen a lot since the last update.
BTW thanks for the updateS.
colemonkee September 11th, 2006, 10:55 PM I love the fact that they have six cranes working on this building. It's like Edward Cranehands is building it.
wjfox October 1st, 2006, 03:57 PM http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1001.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/433n247.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/2ir0lqf.jpg
wjfox October 13th, 2006, 08:18 PM Very foggy in London today. :)
http://www.tvaerials.net/images/broad131006.jpg
colemonkee October 14th, 2006, 12:55 AM Wow. Is this thing already halfway up?
Jamandell (d69) October 14th, 2006, 01:20 AM It really has shot up. I'm looking forward to the cladding.
wjfox October 14th, 2006, 01:41 AM Wow. Is this thing already halfway up?
Actually, it's only around one-third up.
DocShergar October 14th, 2006, 11:39 AM Going up pretty quickly. Would be good to see some shots other than the webcam shots to get a different perspective on the build.
Starting to break the skyline.
wjfox October 20th, 2006, 10:15 PM Cladding has started.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/Buildings201006003.jpg
Mr Bricks October 20th, 2006, 10:20 PM This tower is really flying up!
Sitback October 20th, 2006, 10:43 PM It isnt even a 3 minute walk... more like a matter of seconds! You'll be suprised at how close it is, from ground level anyway...
Get out of here! I'm down those ends all the time. I'd say it's an 8-10 minute walk at least.
DocShergar October 20th, 2006, 10:47 PM http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1001.jpg
Just noticed the location of bishopsgate in relation to Swiss Re. Cant wait now till it breaks the skyline further and you can see it from tower bridge.
Cladding has started.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/Buildings201006003.jpg
Excellent. Cladding has started. Looks good cheers wjfox
(Got any pics from right next to the site from the other side?)
european October 20th, 2006, 11:18 PM Nice updates
wjfox October 26th, 2006, 09:47 PM The tower has now exceeded the height of the neighbouring Broadgate Centre and is visible from Canary Wharf -
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8102/broadgatetowerbv1.jpg
Picture credit: El Greco
Patrick Highrise October 26th, 2006, 11:00 PM damm london has just to many place to go updating in december!! ;) :)
This tower has got potential but we will see that for sure when we see real cladding! :)
wjfox October 28th, 2006, 12:22 PM You can see the Broadgate Tower starting to appear in this webcam view of 51 Lime Street (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=282576). Look to the bottom-right of SwissRe:-
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/camputer21.jpg
wjfox November 1st, 2006, 10:44 PM 17/18 floors, approaching the halfway point now.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/camputer30.jpg
Tubeman November 3rd, 2006, 12:59 AM It really amazes me how strong the raft over the railway tracks must be to support all of that steel! I hope they got their calculations right!
DocShergar November 3rd, 2006, 12:47 PM Just noticed the Lime st web cam view. Will have to keep an eye on Broadgate rising from a different view point.
Broadgate webcam may have to be moved soon do you think?
ESSEXgeezer November 4th, 2006, 11:07 AM bloody hell thats fast...hope the build quality is still great though.
How is it anchered to the ground if theres no concrete core...steel being driven into the ground?
I noticed that. Maybe the dimentions mean it isn't efficient to have a concrete core? Either way it means its going up a helluva lot faster! :)
Muse November 4th, 2006, 11:47 AM This project is rising incredibly fast. Really! It's going to be a stunner for sure.
Thanks for the pic updates guys :okay:
I did scan through this thread quickly, but I couldn't see how tall the lower 12-level building will be. I also checked Emporis but couldn't see any details on it. Anyone know?
BTW Why are there 2 women erotically showering together in place of a render of London in 2012 on page 1 of this thread? LOL http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=283649
ESSEXgeezer November 4th, 2006, 01:30 PM BTW Why are there 2 women erotically showering together in place of a render of London in 2012 on page 1 of this thread? LOL http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=283649
i wondered that too! :lol:
Dan1987 November 4th, 2006, 03:23 PM Its now some fruitcake in front of a piano
Mosaic November 4th, 2006, 04:50 PM nice update, thanks.
wjfox November 8th, 2006, 11:09 AM The webcam views have been enlarged. Images were 640 x 480 pixels before. They are now 800 x 600.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/camputer30.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/camputer3.jpg
R@ptor November 8th, 2006, 04:18 PM When will they start with the cladding?
Dan1987 November 8th, 2006, 04:28 PM They've already started cladding the service shafts
DocShergar November 8th, 2006, 05:03 PM What are they doing now on the bottom 6 floors?
wjfox November 14th, 2006, 09:02 PM Scroll right ----->
http://i10.tinypic.com/2ihp2z8.jpg
Bob2006 November 14th, 2006, 10:40 PM What are they doing now on the bottom 6 floors?
What exactly do you want to know?
Myster E November 14th, 2006, 10:52 PM Wow, London's so feminine and pretty (minus the concrete blocks) in that pic plus she's rising fast in that right corner.
Skabbymuff November 14th, 2006, 11:09 PM It really amazes me how strong the raft over the railway tracks must be to support all of that steel! I hope they got their calculations right!
this is a good point! :sly:
Bob2006 November 14th, 2006, 11:21 PM I'd like to post a picture. Can it only be done by uploading to another http address here?
Bob2006 November 14th, 2006, 11:46 PM Trying to post a picture: this should be the first hint of the main cladding.
http://static.flickr.com/118/297564665_9e1057e343.jpg?v=0
Jamandell (d69) November 19th, 2006, 03:40 PM It's now grown out of the view of the webcam...
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1031551/BroadgateTowerNovember.jpg
andy_wakey November 19th, 2006, 04:12 PM Lol they need to point the webcam a bit higher or move it
Erebus555 November 19th, 2006, 05:37 PM Or get a new one.
wjfox November 23rd, 2006, 02:46 PM http://xs309.xs.to/xs309/06474/IMG_5226.jpg
Image credit: Potto
DocShergar November 23rd, 2006, 03:30 PM Nice pic Fox.
Would i be right in saying the tower will top out somewhere around the top of the highest crane in the above picture?
elfabyanos November 23rd, 2006, 06:56 PM Using the diagonals I'd put it as at the top of the crane on the right hand side.
wjfox November 27th, 2006, 07:06 PM Beginning to have quite an impact now. See the red cranes above and to the right of SwissRe -
http://i12.tinypic.com/2hq75h1.jpg
(not my pic!)
Tubeman November 28th, 2006, 03:05 AM I've just noticed I can see it from my flat thanks to autumnal leaf fall... Only a partial view, mind, so don't get too excited!
DocShergar November 28th, 2006, 12:26 PM On the Lime Street webcam Bishopsgate looks further away
chex November 28th, 2006, 07:22 PM very nic pic!
wjfox December 4th, 2006, 11:42 PM http://i12.tinypic.com/2cnd26r.jpg
wjfox December 16th, 2006, 11:12 PM Having seen the cladding up close, it looks really average in my opinion - nothing special at all.
Anyway, here's a few pics I took today -
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/2.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/3.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/4.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/5.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/7.jpg
http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/6.jpg
wjfox December 17th, 2006, 09:23 PM Posted by Chest. You'll need to scroll right -
http://homepage.mac.com/benveasey/.Pictures/51.jpg
wjfox January 11th, 2007, 12:30 PM Photo by Oatmeal_Stout, from 8/1/2007 -
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/350561330_7fe0caa049_o.jpg
DocShergar January 11th, 2007, 03:35 PM Love the Night Shot!
Any pictures of the Cladding WJFox?
wjfox January 11th, 2007, 07:10 PM This (http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/broadgate/construction/6.jpg)is the only photo I have of the cladding.
Here's a long distance shot, by little_d:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/10th-Jan-2007.jpg
wjfox January 15th, 2007, 08:54 PM Pics by Ntn Rawlings -
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/rawlings_of_pre/DSC00925.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/rawlings_of_pre/DSC00926.jpg
DocShergar January 15th, 2007, 09:13 PM Thanks for posting wjfox.
Cladding coming along nicely :cheers:
Taylorhoge January 16th, 2007, 12:36 AM NICE!!!!!BRAVO LONDON!!!!!
wjfox January 16th, 2007, 12:25 PM This tower will appear behind St Paul's, more prominently than expected. I've done a rendering to show this.
BEFORE (you can see the upper floors starting to appear here, but there are still 10 floors to go) -
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/357511921_ff5e7d6432_b.jpg
AFTER -
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/St-Pauls-view.jpg
Gherkin January 16th, 2007, 12:30 PM Oh Dear. Surely the protected sightlines were taken into consideration?
wjfox January 16th, 2007, 12:35 PM Evidently not.
As I said in the UK forum - it's incredible how the (relatively harmless) Heron Tower went through a public inquiry, yet this managed to get through without anyone complaining.
wjfox January 29th, 2007, 05:23 PM Webcam has been moved to a new location. This is the latest pic -
http://www.britishland.com/images/webcams/201bishopsgate/images/camputer3.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/camputer3.jpg
DocShergar January 29th, 2007, 06:30 PM Thats much better. We can see it grow again.
wjfox January 30th, 2007, 03:53 PM Posted by Medo. This shows the view from the London Eye. The tower still has about 10 floors to go -
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/36/bgwq2.jpg
lyonsdown January 30th, 2007, 05:01 PM I get a view just like that from my office window in the Shell centre :)
Tubeman January 30th, 2007, 07:33 PM I get a view just like that from my office window in the Shell centre :)
How do you ever get any work done? I'd just sit staring out of the window all day!
poshbakerloo February 4th, 2007, 12:52 PM hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i like it ish
Luke February 18th, 2007, 09:23 PM From Ally Pally
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207020.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207023.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207025.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207026.jpg
Don't worry, I asked the nice security man first.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207031.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207015.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/BuildingPics160207029.jpg
DocShergar February 18th, 2007, 11:40 PM Cheers again Luke for posted. The cross bracing will really be striking when the cladding is complete.
wjfox February 20th, 2007, 12:47 AM Pics by DSimons in the UK forum -
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9875/img0352bj6.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9498/img0346nk4.jpg
Mosaic February 20th, 2007, 09:13 AM ^^it starts to dominate the skyline already!.
Gherkin February 21st, 2007, 12:25 AM ^^ Hardly! It doesn't really have much effect on the skyline from the normal/traditional viewing angles (see recent photos on this thread) but looks pretty big from those photos :D It's about 800m from the main 'cluster' of London's skyline so won't be neighboured by other skyscrapers for some time :(
Escoto_Dubai2008 February 21st, 2007, 01:31 AM I saw this tower last year, but today :eek2::eek2: it looks pretty nice, and it has a lot of progress, when I saw it the first time it was only a project now it's a reality.
wjfox February 25th, 2007, 04:51 PM From KelNet
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/401017581_f581e4672d_o.jpg
Taylorhoge February 26th, 2007, 01:32 AM Great updates the city is really going to grow after seeing all those cranes in that one pic
Lance February 26th, 2007, 01:50 AM That is definately one hell of a lump!!!! Didnt expect it to make that much of an impact when I first saw the renderings.
Tubeman February 26th, 2007, 09:03 AM That is definately one hell of a lump!!!! Didnt expect it to make that much of an impact when I first saw the renderings.
Probably because they were all craftily of the narrow side of the building.
How much more steelwork needs to go up... Do we know?
DocShergar February 26th, 2007, 10:32 AM ^^ 6 or 9 floor i think
wjfox February 26th, 2007, 12:04 PM 12 floors.
DocShergar February 26th, 2007, 12:21 PM ^^ I knew it was in incraments of 3. Thats even better.
eng_kheffa February 26th, 2007, 04:49 PM looks so wide 4 its height
wjfox February 27th, 2007, 10:35 PM http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/404899142_4e85661382_o.jpg
Momo1435 February 27th, 2007, 11:32 PM That's one great pano, dark clouds above London. I hope it's just the weather and it won't effect all the current and upcoming projects. ;)
I like the the current transparency of the tower
Taylorhoge February 28th, 2007, 12:36 AM Very cool pic
DocShergar February 28th, 2007, 12:25 PM Amazing picture. Cheers for posting wjfox
SE9 February 28th, 2007, 07:00 PM Viewed from the North:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/403292092_b80260ef59_b.jpg
Jamandell (d69) February 28th, 2007, 08:34 PM Brilliant photo! It looks great from that angle against Tower 42 and the Gherkin.
wjfox March 4th, 2007, 09:57 PM Posted by Jonas on SSP:
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4712/img2515sx9.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2382/img2535cl8.jpg
wjfox March 19th, 2007, 12:30 PM Some pics by GazKinz
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180009.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180012.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180014.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180018.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180019.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180020.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180021.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180023.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/GazKinz/P3180026.jpg
eng_kheffa March 19th, 2007, 03:46 PM seems that those cranes r not working
all of them r in one direction
:nuts: :nuts: :nuts:
wjfox March 22nd, 2007, 02:48 PM From Potto in the UK forum -
http://xs413.xs.to/xs413/07124/IMG_54372.jpg
http://xs413.xs.to/xs413/07124/IMG_54352.jpg
Sbz2ifc March 22nd, 2007, 03:03 PM ^^ Beautiful pics.
Jamandell (d69) March 22nd, 2007, 07:03 PM Seeing that last picture makes me realise the potential this building has to be good. Before all I've been thinking about is it's huge width, but imagine when it's fully clad on a sunny day like that.
It is essential the cladding is good!
wjfox March 22nd, 2007, 07:07 PM Published 22 March 2007 at 11:21
Broadgate engineers battle to get Tower back on track
The construction and erection of six, 25m tall, steel A-frames supporting the eastern base of the Broadgate Tower ran over by three weeks at the end of last year due to the work being more complex than first thought.
Coupled with this, high winds over the past two months have put tower cranes working on the site out of action for a week. Labourers for contractor Bovis Lend Lease and steelwork contractor William Hare have been working extended shifts to reclaim the lost time on the project.
Designed by structural engineer Skidmore Owings & Merrill (SOM) for developer British Land, Broadgate Tower is being built in tandem with the 12 storey 201 Bishopsgate as part of a £292M extension to the Broadgate Estate in the City of London (NCE 20 July 2006).
The difficulties erecting the steel A-frames occurred when engineers attempted to connect them to a 2.4m deep, twin-deck, steel and concrete sandwich raft that sits above the railway lines running into Liverpool Street station. The A-frames do not distribute load evenly.
Three-quarters of the loading transfers through the A-frames on to eight new ground bearing piles on the west side of the building. Only a quarter of the load is transferred into the raft that extends over the railway line. Ensuring this distribution was accurate and connecting the A-frames to the raft took engineers longer than expected.
Winds reaching 160kph at the end of January and during February and March rendered the tower cranes inoperable, losing the equivalent of one week’s work. All six A-frames are now in place and both Broadgate Tower and 201 Bishopsgate are nearing full height.
Nout March 22nd, 2007, 11:38 PM sharp as a knife...
wjfox April 22nd, 2007, 03:50 PM Taken by me, from the top of Forest Hill
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/broadgate/190407-wjfox.jpg
Its AlL gUUd April 22nd, 2007, 07:21 PM ^^Thats a beautiful pic
Skabbymuff April 23rd, 2007, 11:04 AM ^ yeh the second from last is awsome!
DarJoLe April 23rd, 2007, 12:35 PM http://farm1.static.flickr.com/202/469732122_7dac9f17bd_b.jpg
wjfox April 25th, 2007, 04:37 PM Webcam latest -
http://i14.tinypic.com/29g0n01.jpg
Pavlemadrid April 25th, 2007, 05:02 PM It's similar to Bank of China Tower in Hong Kong…
http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/sixwm/2003/09/218828.jpg
Muse April 25th, 2007, 05:06 PM It's similar to Bank of China Tower in Hong Kong…
It's only due to the large bracings.
Definitely a fan of your's wj! You keep us updated so well on all the major projects in London. Loving the one taken from the hill. Kudos to you again! :okay:
Thanks for posting the tid-bit on those huge frames. In being a huge frame & brace buff, this tower has got me.
Cool pic too DarJoLe.
Now all we need is some more of that good ole SOM cladding. It doesn't skimp on its projects.
...
Trav April 25th, 2007, 10:09 PM And its FINISHED!!!
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/6666/broadgatetowercd6ms6.jpg
Thanks to Danger Mouse for the pic!
Tubeman April 26th, 2007, 11:43 AM ^^
Wow! That's a pretty impressive rendering... otherwise he's got a time machine and a camera...
I'm intrigued what the 'fat' sides will look like though, as those are what I see from my flat.
wjfox April 26th, 2007, 12:41 PM Posted by Manuel -
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/195/473305080_5dc34baaca_o.jpg
giovani kun April 26th, 2007, 12:49 PM it looks hudge...in the London skyline...:cheers:
Pavlemadrid April 26th, 2007, 08:38 PM And its FINISHED!!!
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/6666/broadgatetowercd6ms6.jpg
Thanks to Danger Mouse for the pic!
Seem to be certain! :applause:
Chi649 April 27th, 2007, 05:40 AM I nice new tower for London, lookin good. Keep up the good work.
eddie88 April 29th, 2007, 06:08 PM wow its going up fast =]
Insane alex April 29th, 2007, 10:09 PM It's probably a render
Ralphkke April 30th, 2007, 02:57 PM A great design!
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