I recently learned that south africa is a devoloping country within a developed country.
That the white population which is 15% and the black population is 85%. The whites have 99% literacy rate, life span of 70 yrs, high per capita, but the blacks which are 85% are one of the ten most poorest people in africa. Life spane of average 50yrs, very poor, live in townships and ghettos.....etc.
IS THIS STILL TRUE IN SA EVEN AFTER APARTHEID!

SA Blacks are, on average, far richer than the african average and have been long before apartheid ended - that statement is total crap. There are probably only 2 or 3 countries in 'black' africa that have richer black people, and they are both tiny mineral-rich countries - EqGuinea and Botswana.

Lifespan is low but that is entirely because of AIDS which has reduced their lifespan from over 60 in the 80s.

What are some accurate demographics, because Stats SA is a little screwed up. I e-mailed them about the footnotes on their site :

· an underestimate of children under the age of five
· an overestimate of children aged between 10 and 19
· an underestimate of men relative to women
· an underestimate of the white population

The response I recieved was that they had not been able to count whites that lived on farms or private communities (note that they didn't respond about the other three problems I addressed). The statistics on CIA WorldFactbook went from Black (75.2%), White (13.6%), Coloured (8.6%), Asian (2.4%) in 2004, to Black (79%), White (9.6%), Coloured (8.8%), Asian (2.6%) in 2005. How could it change so rapidly, and I'm still curious why there isand underestimate of men to women, children under five, and 10-19.

Basically, what I'm saying is what are some more accurate demographics.

What Are Some accurate Demographics?

What Are Some accurate Demographics?

The answer is that the previous apartheid government has overcounted all population groups and was less accurate in projecting the number of blacks as many lived in homelands and the townships were not safe to do the counting during the uprisings. Until the 1996 census, there was not an accurate census held since 1970. As for the the white population it was also overcounted quite conveniently for the previous regime which did not want to accept that at least 500,000 to 1,000,000 whites had emigrated between 1976 and 1994 because of economic decline caused by sanctions. It was not surprising that the 1991 census estimate showed more people than did the full 1996 census. The grossly inaccurate 1991 census showed 42.7 million people including 5.1 million whites, while the 1996 census showed 40.6 million people including 4.4 million whites. In the 2001 census there were 44.8 million people including 4.3 million whites. So we have a more accurate assessment of the demographic groups in the country. All population groups except whites are increasing. The national rate of increase during this period is almost 2% per year. The 2001 census revealed that the white population declined by almost 150,000 between 1996 and 2001 (or -0.4% growth per year) and that emigration continued unabated during this period.

So what exactly was the 75.2%, 13.6% stuff I keep seeing, and avicenna what were your sources for those statistics, you are forgetting Asians and Coloureds.

South Africa's population

South Africa is a nation of over 46-million people of diverse origins, cultures, languages and beliefs.

According to the mid-2005 estimates from Statistics South Africa, the country's population stands at approximately 46.9-million, up from the census 2001 count of 44.8-million.

Africans are in the majority at 37.2-million, constituting 79.4% of the total population. The white population is estimated at 4.4-million (9.3%), the coloured population at 4.1-million (8.8%) and the Indian/Asian population at 1.1-million (2.5%).

While more than three-quarters of South Africa's population is African or black, this category is neither culturally nor linguistically homogenous. Nine of the country's 11 official languages are African, reflecting a variety of tribal/cultural groupings which nonetheless have a great deal in common in terms of background, culture and descent.

Africans include: the Nguni people, comprising the Zulu, Xhosa, Ndebele and Swazi; the Sotho-Tswana people, comprising the Southern, Northern and Western Sotho (Tswana); the Tsonga; and the Venda.

South Africa's white population descends largely from the colonial immigrants of the late 17th, 18th and 19th centuries - Dutch, German, French Huguenot and British. Linguistically it is divided into Afrikaans- and English-speaking groups, although many small communities that have immigrated over the last century retain the use of other languages.

The label "coloured" is a contentious one, but still used for people of mixed race descended from slaves brought in from East and central Africa, the indigenous Khoisan who lived in the Cape at the time, indigenous Africans and whites. The majority speak Afrikaans.

Khoisan is a term used to describe two separate groups, physically similar in being light-skinned and small in stature. The Khoi, who were called Hottentots by the Europeans, were pastoralists and were effectively annihilated; the San, called Bushmen by the Europeans, were hunter-gatherers. A small San population still lives in South Africa.

The majority of South Africa's Asian population is Indian in origin, many of them descended from indentured workers brought to work on the sugar plantations of the eastern coastal area then known as Natal in the 19th century. They are largely English-speaking, although many also retain the languages of their origins. There is also a significant group of Chinese South Africans.

In terms of religious affiliation, about two-thirds of South Africans are Christian, mainly Protestant. They belong to a variety of churches, including many that combine Christian and traditional African beliefs. Many non-Christians espouse these traditional beliefs. Other significant religions are Islam, Hinduism and Judaism.

SA's population by province

South Africa's largest provincial population is in KwaZulu-Natal, with 9.6-million people (20.6% of the total population of 46.9-million), according to the mid-2005 estimates of Statistics South Africa.

The most densely populated of South Africa's nine provinces, however, is Gauteng, with some 9-million people (19.2% of the total population) occupying just 1.4% of the country's land area.

The most sparsely populated, with less than a million people (902 000, or 1.9% of the total population), is the dry Northern Cape - by far the biggest in terms of area as it occupies nearly 30% of the country.

The mid-2005 population estimates for the other six provinces are:

Eastern Cape - 7-million (15%)
Free State - 2.9-million (6.3%)
Limpopo - 5.6-million (12%)
Mpumalanga - 3.2-million (6.9%)
North West - 3.8-million (8.2%)
Western Cape - 4.6-million (9.9%)

Urban versus rural:

Perhaps surprisingly in a country with comparatively few major urban centres and a great deal of wide open space, slightly more than 50% of South Africa's population live in urban areas.
This is not only because of the number of rural people who have moved to towns to find work, but also because much of that open space is dry and arid.

The most rural province in South Africa is Limpopo. Gauteng, with both Johannesburg and Pretoria within its boundaries, is almost entirely urban. Other areas of high urban concentration are around Cape Town in the Western Cape, Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, Port Elizabeth and East London in the Eastern Cape and, in the interior, Bloemfontein in the Free State.

Languages:

The languages you will hear most frequently spoken in South Africa depend on where in the country you are.

Overall - according to the more comprehensive statistics of the 2001 census -isiZulu (23.8%) is the most commonly spoken home language, followed by isiXhosa (17.6%),
Afrikaans (13.3%),
Sepedi (9.4%),
Setswana (8.2%) and
English (8.2%).

IsiXhosa is spoken by more than 80% of South Africans in the Eastern Cape, while almost 80% of people in KwaZulu-Natal speak isiZulu. IsiZulu is also the most frequently spoken home language in Gauteng, but at a much smaller percentage. In Cape Town and its surrounds, Afrikaans comes into its own.

Predominant languages by province (census 2001 figures, rounded off) are:

Eastern Cape - isiXhosa (83%), Afrikaans (9%)
Free State - Sesotho (64%), Afrikaans (12%)
Gauteng - isiZulu (21%), Afrikaans (14%), Sesotho (13%), English (12%)
KwaZulu-Natal - isiZulu (81%), English (13%)
Limpopo - Sepedi (52%), Xitsonga (22%), Tshivenda (16%)
Mpumalanga - siSwati (31%), isiZulu (26%), isiNdebele (12%)
Northern Cape - Afrikaans (68%), Setswana (21%)
North West - Setswana (65%), Afrikaans (7%)
Western Cape - Afrikaans (55%), English (19%), isiXhosa (23%)

SOURCE : http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/demographics/population.htm

The Government is just trying to hold back white numbers, the country is really 15%-20%,not 9 or 10 percent.

The Government is just trying to hold back white numbers, the country is really 15%-20%,not 9 or 10 percent.

Wow, what a crazy racist I'm surprised he hasn't left the country. AWB forever, Orania isnt that the all white town? Get a life, man.

AWB filth, hey, do the world a favor and go kill yourself.

Pieter,

I cannot agree more with you about the AWB. They are a bunch of clowns who have no place in the new SA. We saw how stupid they were when they entered Bop in 1994. Eugene Terre'Blanche is all drama in front of the cameras. He's nothing and is part of SA's past.
According to the AWB's own website there are only 3.5 million whites in SA (the party believes 50% of whites have already emigrated in masse) as the AWB wants to paint an apocalyptic picture of SA today as if it were a second Zimbabwe. But we know how false this claim is as SA is a much better place today for blacks and whites than it was in 1994 when the country was on verge of civil war.

capetown

The AWB just makes all whites look bad

Pieter,

I cannot agree more with you about the AWB. They are a bunch of clowns who have no place in the new SA. We saw how stupid they were when they entered Bop in 1994. Eugene Terre'Blanche is all drama in front of the cameras. He's nothing and is part of SA's past.
According to the AWB's own website there are only 3.5 million whites in SA (the party believes 50% of whites have already emigrated in masse) as the AWB wants to paint an apocalyptic picture of SA today as if it were a second Zimbabwe. But we know how false this claim is as SA is a much better place today for blacks and whites than it was in 1994 when the country was on verge of civil war.

capetown

Don't forget to mention that Eugenie also wore bottle green underpants full of holes .. HA HA .. enough to make me straight ;)

The Government is just trying to hold back white numbers, the country is really 15%-20%,not 9 or 10 percent.

Oh my - how interesting .. where are the other 20 posts that you have made ? I am intrigued.

hehe...even though what he says does seem unreal...there has been serious undercounting in the population...and alot of it will affect manily white households. The undercounting is due to limited access to secure estates. That will drastically effect the stat in many instances...so the white is prob a slight bit larger, but never 20% of SA pop!!!

Dysan,

That is an interesting proposition though is may be true given the number of such gated boom gate communities and access to them. How many whites do you think are there in SA and also Indian, coloured and black Africans?

i cant give numbers for the dif racial groups...but i would seriously say that indians/asians would be more likey 1,5m than 1,1m, whites i'd say 5mil, not much more.

Dysan,

How many whites do you think have left SA since 1994 and during the apartheid years?

capetown

god i have no clue

In Zimbabwe there were 290,00 whites in the former Rhodesia in 1975. At independence in 1980 that number fell to 200,000. By 1985 there were only 100,000 whites left in Zim. By 1998 there were 70,000, by 2002 there were 45,000 and by 2005 there were only 20,000 left, less than 10% the original number. And Robert Mugabe will drive the rest out by 2006 or 2007.

I think altogether (including illegal immigrants) South Africa has a little bit over 50 million.

I think altogether (including illegal immigrants) South Africa probably has a little bit over 50 million people.

Pieter,

I have to agree with you. There are at least 3-4 million Zimbabweans in SA plus more from other African countries.

I just stumbled on to stormfront.org, and that is a creepy site, and bad feeling being around such closed minded people. The sad part is there are almost 70,000 members to that site, and a lot of South Africans. I have another question though. All those whites that have been run out of Zimbabwe, did they go to South Africa, or Europe or America, does anyone know?

Oh yeah, stormfront.org, those people aren't just close minded, they're evil. They represent the worst elements of humanity. Just thinking about them has ruined my appetite.

JAB323,

I agree that Stormfront is a neo-fascist site. Only a tiny fraction of white South Africans (maybe a few thousand) are still diehards who support AWB, Boere-Staat Party and other extremist Afrikaner homeland groupings such as the Oranians. The rest are normal just like you and me.

As for the whites who have left Zimbabwe since dictator Robert Mugabe's land invasions and expropriations began in 2000, the majority have gone to Australia, New Zealand, and Britain while some have gone to South Africa and Botswana. A few white farmers have settled in Mozambique and Zambia and are successfully revitalizing their economies.

I guess thats true very few are real into those groups, I d;nt even believe AWB has 70,000 members like their site claims. In the U.S. blacks and whites are even more close culturally, way more than in SA, but White Nationalist groups like the National Socialist movement, and KKK claim over 500,000 members each. Granted it has died down alot from probably 3 or 4 million KKK in the 60's. But the fact that there are half a million members, and countless supporters is scary.

I disagree that whites and blacks in the USA are "closer" than they are in SA. I think that SA whites are less materialistic than are people in the USA.

I disagree with you on that statement. Black Americans and whites are much more closer than Black South Africans and Whites. White and Black Americans generally speak the same language at home, whereas Black And White South Africans do not. Both (Black and White Americans) have generally the same culture, eat the same food, listen to the same music (nowadays) and both are predominately Christian, just a different history.


I think that SA whites are less materialistic than are people in the USA.

I dont understand what you mean by this quote.

Just what I mean. SA is not as money-driven and materialistic as the USA obviously is. You are right culturally there are vast difference in SA but I disagree that whites and blacks are more racially divisive than in the USA where people can deny it more easily.

Exactly my point, Pieter. Now I was only born in South Africa, what is with these private communities. The government can't get into these or something?

HaHa...I went on storm front and there was a South African who said over 20,000 white farmers had been brutally murdered. I'm not that ignorant I know there have been quite a few murders, but I also know it can't be that many. I was also wondering if anyone has taken a South African Census : I mean where each person is from. If not I'll go ahead and start one.

JAB323,

Actually there have been over 2,000 white farmers murdered since 1992, not 20,000! That's an exaggeration but nevertheless the stats on farm murders, black and white, are staggering. Actually there are twice as many new black farmers murdered than white farmers.

capetown

Not to mention all the murders in Zimbabwe of white (and black) farmers.



And South Africans are NOT less materialistic than Americans.........Sandton City, Gateway, Century City........please.

Not to mention all the murders in Zimbabwe of white (and black) farmers.



And South Africans are NOT less materialistic than Americans.........Sandton City, Gateway, Century City........please.

White South Africans are more materialistic than Kiwis .. one of the first things that I noticed when I arrived here .. take Jozi (the most materialistic of all SA Cities) for example .. it is all about where you live, what you drive, where you shop and what you wear ... in Auckland it is all about quality of life i.e. which park do you sit and chill in, where do you go tramping (hiking), which island are we visiting this weekend blah blah blah .. white South Africans (and let's not forget my hob-knobbing black friends in the ANC) are VERY materialistic .. on a parr with the States - definitely.

Datilguy - very observant of you - well done !

I think white South Africa is as materialistic as the USA undoubtedly, quite possibly more, to be honest... Black South Africans in the urban areas, alot too, but in rural areas, or remote African countries, often they are SO UNmaterialistic that it is to be looked up to by everyone. Anyways, I went off topic.

Although we may not agree on who is more materialistic, I hope we can agree on one thing and that is materialism is stupid. The only things that matter in life is making a positive impact on others, your family, friends, and skyscrapers.

Amen!!!

Oui oui, and my faith :)

Well put Pieter!!!!!!! :)

Oh my - how interesting .. where are the other 20 posts that you have made ? I am intrigued.
I saw that too, and am trying to see what this clown has said about us before.
JAB have you introduced yourself to us on the meet and greet threadf as I see you are from Durban?

JAB323,

As for the whites who have left Zimbabwe since dictator Robert Mugabe's land invasions and expropriations began in 2000, the majority have gone to Australia, New Zealand, and Britain while some have gone to South Africa and Botswana. A few white farmers have settled in Mozambique and Zambia and are successfully revitalizing their economies.


Loads in OZ and I have met so many here in Dubai

JAB have you introduced yourself to us on the meet and greet threadf as I see you are from Durban?

No, I havn't

Must also point out that there are many Zimbabweans in SA. I'll give u my experience.

At school, in 2001, we had 40 zimbabweans arrive that year, and another 30 odd in 2002. According to newspaper reports and general discussion, there are at least 8000 Zimbabweans in the North Durban Area alone. So i would imagine that bucket loads have come to SA...but not declared it to anyone.

Acccording to recent estimates, there are approximately 3 million Zimbaweans in SA. According to the govt, almost 30 000 are crossing over the border each MONTH. Most are productive and law abiding citizens just trying to escape the misery there. We would probably flee SA, legally or illegaly, if things melted down here so I don't blame them. These numbers are also a possible reason why STAT SA's latest pop estimates are almost 49 million for SA. I stand to be corrected but as far as I know, a country's population is not only limited to legal citizens but count the no. of foreign nationals lving there too.

Yeah I know its not 20%, i was kinda just joking with everybody. Being serious tho it definitely is at least 12, maybe 13%

#1
Get rid of that ugly flag. It deserves to be burnt! Did you know it is 2005 not 1993? Thabo is the president, not PW!

capetown

#1
Get rid of that ugly flag. It deserves to be burnt! Did you know it is 2005 not 1993? Thabo is the president, not PW!

capetown

You might not like it BUT he has the right to bare (I have a feeling that I have spelled this incorrectly ??) what ever flag he wants and to believe what he wants ... after all .. isn't that what the new FREE South Africa is all about ? ;)

People are so quick to attack .. it is very hostile in the SA Forum and many people will agree with me ... if he irritates you - ignore him. Chill bro - stare at Table Mountain or something and take a deep breath ;)

P.S I think that it was a beautiful flag .. it is just a piece of cloth after all.

You're just saying that because you probably agree with him (that disgraceful AWB thing) Thats probably why you left South Africa in the first place.

Anyways, anyone with a sense of beauty would not consider that twisted joke of a flag beautiful in any sort of way, The way the colors are mixed together is extremely tacky and repulsive, and is a symbol for cruelty,hatred, pain,and misery just like the old government. Whereas new flag is one of the most beautiful flags I have ever seen in my life, and stands for one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen my life. Freedom and Unity.

I just can't believe someone who lives in Orania would even have a computer. Those people are so stuck in their ways and live like its the stone age.

I am surprised someone from Orania can even read and type.

Hey, Enigma good to see more AWB representation on SSC!!!

I think this joker is just an AWB wanabee, you dont actually live Orania do you?

Take a deep breath, sigh, shake your head and ignore ;)

Free speech.......he (AWB) can say (or believe) whatever he wants.....though we may not agree with him........we would all be hypocrites if we censored him.

Admittedly.....the white population is nowhere near 20%...but I do think it is closer to 12 or 13% maybe.

And we have bucketloads of Zimbabweans here........New Mexico ...(as I've already said....broken record player hehehe)...has one of the highest populations of South African expats and emmigrants.....so naturally we also attract a lot of Zimbabweans.....:)

I'm just baffled as to how all those South Africans ended up in New Mexico of all places. I doubt the average person in ZA knows that there is a state in the USA called New Mexico.

And, yeah there are millions of Zimbos in ZA these days. Every time I phone my relatives they have a story to tell about all the Zimbabweans they see moving into their neighbourhoods and how much they wish the Zimbabweans would go back.

I have met many Zimbabweans in Auckland as well (which was a HUGE surprise, I had no idea that Zimbabweans were moving to NZ) .. geez, they must be one of the most scattered nationalities in the world ;)

I must just add that I feel sorry for black people in NZ .. not that they are treated badly but they must feel "out" .. the most black people that I have seen in one day is 5. My bf and I were sitting at a cafe in Devonport and this black guy came and sat next to us .. he clearly felt very out, downed his cappo and dashed away. I felt so sorry for him, I just wanted to go and chat to him but I ended up doing nothing .. I wish that I had gone and spoken to him.

guys ignore ET and dont let him rile you, he's entitled to his beliefs and so are we.
Man Zimbos are such a disjointed bunch of people, my neighbour is one and has spend his childhood in Rhodesia and Botswana, lived in LA for 10 years and Dubai for 5 and you would think he still lived in Zim, barefoot all the time and sounding like he should be on a boat fishing in Kariba

Iam sorry but there are some opinions etc that cannot just be accepted, I think we should ban the AWB bastard personally. I dont know about anyone else but I dont think that nazism and showing that flag is acceptable ANYWHERE and certainly not here.

I think South Africa is like the last estimate going around before the 2001 census : Black (77%), White (11%), Mixed(NOT COLOURED!!!) (9%), Asian/Indian (3%)

It is probably about that but with like 50 million people, counting all the Zimbabweans and illegals

yeah thats probably about right, and maybe 50 mil

Hehehe....I too am baffled with the choice of New Mexico as a top destination for South Africans.....but amazingly, they are still here!.....To give an example, in my hometown of Datil (about 3 hours away from Albuquerque), we have 23 South Africans out of a population of 500. They are also a very present and economically profficient group too.......in Datil, the gun club is run by a South African, a large and prosperous realty office is owned and operated by a Zaffer, as is the high-school teacher of math, the metalurgy shop, and a quite famous and respected art gallery/artist...who is known for her exquisite fabrege` eggs.......Go figure that one out.

Also, the largest electronics store in Socorro (a town of about 11,000) is owned and operated by a South African........:)