instead of 16, 17, 20 storey buildings that look like housing projects.

I mean I want to see some badass buildings that really stand out. These under 20-storey buildings are so boring to look at. Even some ghetto buildings near where I live are over 20-storey tall.

everyone knows about the bitexco building and that ~60 stories and theres another one in saigon being proposed. in hanoi im pretty shure that there r others at least 60 also being propsed..... i hope they get built

can anyone verify

instead of 16, 17, 20 storey buildings that look like housing projects.

I mean I want to see some badass buildings that really stand out. These under 20-storey buildings are so boring to look at. Even some ghetto buildings near where I live are over 20-storey tall.
To be realistic, I think it would be another 15 years or so before you'll see that many 40-plus storeys being built (not being proposed) in Vietnam.

But personally I think money should not be wasted in these glamorous buildings. Money should be used to build schools, hospitals, and to invest in R&D to help build high-tech industries for Vietnam

Just look at Japan, it doesn't have that many glamorous super tall buildings but it is one of the most advanced nations in the world.

To be realistic, I think it would be another 15 years or so before you'll see that many 40-plus storeys being built (not being proposed) in Vietnam.

But personally I think money should not be wasted in these glamorous buildings. Money should be used to build schools, hospitals, and to invest in R&D to help build high-tech industries for Vietnam

Just look at Japan, it doesn't have that many glamorous super tall buildings but it is one of the most advanced nations in the world.
I agree about the whole Japan part, but I don't think it'll take 15 years to have those kind of buildings

yeh luk at all the new industrial parks in saigon and these proposed buildings wont take 15 yrs to build. also the new parst of the city lik saigon south and thu thiem r gonna be the bomb. i bet u theres gonna be alot of crazy awesome stuff there soon

to make long story short
a country with a government that can be bought with money: aint going anywhere

they said if VN became a member of WTO.....more businesses will come in the country and as a riple affect : more tall office building.

but hey.....the WTO is too demanding and strict on their silly "human right" policy and "religious freedom" issue among others.......

that why no matter how hard VN tried we still couldn't get in......if you read VNexpress you'll see our country's representative said "it's not VN's fault that we haven't admitted to the WTO"

so, if it's not VN's fault, then it's must be the united nation's fault......... the whole world is wrong ......only VN is right........nice and decent individual always got picked on huh?

correction
Japan does boast a number of cities with great skyline.......and there is a great skyline in Tokyo despite their geological zone

to make long story short
a country with a government that can be bought with money: aint going anywhere

they said if VN became a member of WTO.....more businesses will come in the country and as a riple affect : more tall office building.

but hey.....the WTO is too demanding and strict on their silly "human right" policy and "religious freedom" issue among others.......

that why no matter how hard VN tried we still couldn't get in......if you read VNexpress you'll see our country's representative said "it's not VN's fault that we haven't admitted to the WTO"

so, if it's not VN's fault, then it's must be the united nation's fault......... the whole world is wrong ......only VN is right........nice and decent individual always got picked on huh?

If you think the Chinese enjoyed their human right and religious freedom for the reason China is in WTO, think again. Chinese government's records on those issues are worse than Vietnam's. You can still name the dissidents in Vietnam, while you can not in China since there are too many of them!

Vietnam has yet to be a member of WTO is because of technicality issues. And because China has not fulfill the requirements when it became a member, that's why the organization is stricter when admitting new members, not only Vietnam. WTO is no cruisader for human right!

For the security of its county, VN has not accepted some of the condition in which VN must open up more its banking and communication sectors to some countries such as the United States. This is very critical to VN. Vietnam knows that it must carry on the "Doi Moi" policy which VN must joint the WTO as soon as possible, however it must be done in such a way that its people are not getting too much influences from the West. With out this measure, the communist party can be chaos, just like the Soviet Union in the past. As of now, VN are controlling its banking and telecommunication sectors so that they can monitor the people easily.

correction
Japan does boast a number of cities with great skyline.......and there is a great skyline in Tokyo despite their geological zone

I had a feeling I know you. is your name Han?

For the security of its county, VN has not accepted some of the condition in which VN must open up more its banking and communication sectors to some countries such as the United States. This is very critical to VN. Vietnam knows that it must carry on the "Doi Moi" policy which VN must joint the WTO as soon as possible, however it must be done in such a way that its people are not getting too much influences from the West. With out this measure, the communist party can be chaos, just like the Soviet Union in the past. As of now, VN are controlling its banking and telecommunication sectors so that they can monitor the people easily.
I read somewhere and it said that 7 state-owned banks control like 70-80% of Vietnam's banking industry.

Thank you, Lac Hong and SQD.

To be realistic, I think it would be another 15 years or so before you'll see that many 40-plus storeys being built (not being proposed) in Vietnam.

But personally I think money should not be wasted in these glamorous buildings. Money should be used to build schools, hospitals, and to invest in R&D to help build high-tech industries for Vietnam

Just look at Japan, it doesn't have that many glamorous super tall buildings but it is one of the most advanced nations in the world.

That's true, I totally agree with you. Vietnam needs to put money on more important things so they could boost their country more, even though it is already getting strong now. In Taiwan, they do not have many supertalls, but they have a flourishing economy, and standard of living is pretty high. There's no need for big buildings, unless you really need it.

yep everyone is right.......and my point exactly: "human right" policy and "religious freedom" issue among others.....

who got the strongest influence in WTO? America
and who is America's mortal enemy before terrorism? Communism

besides setting the record clean ......human right and freedom for religion is also on the agenda....who demand this? America and its allies.....even if these factors aren't inscripted in the book.

why did China got in? they have a market of over a billion people.......and a tremendous population of Chinese overseas.......other countries needed China products and resources
VN on other hand is a joke......so please don't compare.

I could go on and on, but yeah ...........let's hope Vn won't ever fall into Western influences and continue to go with China's.....because the Western world won't help our government stay in power, CHina does that, God bless CHina!

and lets hope it's another technicality.......because VN has a lot of those "technicalities"

in VN many buildings collasped right after it being built: technicality
paid the police first before they serve you: technicality
New bridges, highways and roads are under constant repair: technicality
corruption in the government: technicality
guity until proven guity when you got in trouble with the law: technicality
Churches and temples are being destroyed: technicality

VN is a beautiful land I tell you that

I had a feeling I know you. is your name Han?

Nope I've never been to the Japan forum, but nice to meet U

I love buildings and architectures, so when I have time I look for pictures of cities around the world....therefore I'm very familiar with all of the major cities around the world

That's true, I totally agree with you. Vietnam needs to put money on more important things so they could boost their country more, even though it is already getting strong now. In Taiwan, they do not have many supertalls, but they have a flourishing economy, and standard of living is pretty high. There's no need for big buildings, unless you really need it.

most of buildings aren't built with Vietnamese money, so I'm not really sure what people are talking about.
majority of the projects are built by foreign investors. and many tall building got chopped off when they are built in the center city where there are many lowrise colonial buildings
ex:
Metropolitan original 25storeys : down to 18
Sotifel 30 storeys: current 20
Diamond plaza 35 storeys: current 20

current proposed buildings are being reconsidered lower the heights
-spaceship 40 storeys: too tall
-Kimdo 40 storeys: too tall
-Tax plaza 39 storeys: too tall
JSC twin 40storeys: too tall near the French supreme court
Van Thanh market 30storeys: too tall near the highway......reconsidering 20 storeys
-Youth cultural house 30-40 storeys: too tall reconsider 20

I bet ya those asian plaza 30 storeys, Eden 30 storeys, and even the financial 60 storeys are also under process of reconsider cutting down

Vietnam has over 80 million people with a huge young, dynamic, and inteligent work force, therefore very attractive to the world. At this point, most of these direct foreign investments (DFI) are waiting on the sideline until VN joints the WTO, because this will be their protection. As we all know, when VN joint the WTO, it will promise to proctect these foreign investment by implement tough law to protect their interlectual properties (hope VN can reinforce it) and others. However, these companies might be a little behind since many companies from Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Singapore..etc are already making profit. In my opinion, VN is still a very attractive country has a very favorable investment condition with great incentive program and cheap labor. FDI will be dramaticly increased after VN joints the WTO for sure, after then the need for space is also dramaticly increased. VN will build more skyscrapers of 50 to 60 stories to fill this demand, especially at the time when most major cities like Saigon and Ha Noi, land are scarce. I think all this can accomplish with in the next 10 years and the people who invest in these tall buildings will be Vietnamese investors. Many of these investors already have the financial resources and experiences to invest in these projects. The goal that VN has established was to develope Saigon and HaNoi into a modern city and to become an industrailized country by 2025. VN will make this happen. As you have seen, VN has made a huge progress in such a short period since Doi Moi (1985-present, but the real change is actually from 1990-present with major challenge) that not many countries can have done. Before 1985, VN didn't have enough rice to feed its people and now rice exporter from VN ranks second in the world and also at that time meats are scarce and now its seafood exporter are surpass 2 billion US a year. VN used to buy ships from Japan and now VN is one of a major ship builder for UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea http://www.vinashin.com.vn/default.aspx. Back to the skyscraper thing, I think building 50-60 stories are the must. This has not thing to do with whether you want it or not. I speak out of my opinion, this will not determine I am a communist.

Damn that sux. They shouldn't have cropped the height of those buildings. The taller the better.

I share your view, Lac Hong. I think VN is doing very well, considering years of war and embargo. People tend to undermind or underestimate its potential. The south did underestimate the north's determination, we are where we are as the result. Until now, to some oversea Vietnamese, everything in Vietnam is bad! A few people still believe that you will be arrested if you take pictures overthere! Thanks to oversea media! Extreme thinking will blind you that much. But again, thank God that many, many people came back to VN to see things for themselves, one look worths a thousand words. I do strongly believe in the truth. Tell it like it is. It will set you free, right?

Maybe I wasn't born early then to know any thing about war stuff, but I know now Vietnam has a very impressive historical record. We fought against the Chinese for thousand of years, then the Mogolian. What most impressive in all those years was Vietnamese were determined to become independent and maintain its identity while influenced much of the invader's cultures. Vietnamese also fought against the French, then the American, I do understand that many Vietnamese don't want to think this was an American war, I respect that. However, the American would not waiste time, money, and human lives for VN if the war did not benifit them, that's true with the French as well. Kennedy assasinated President Ngo Dinh Diem, because president Diem didn't want US troops present in VN, but just aids. The American has bombed the Northern region of VN and destroyed their villages, if you don't think this is an American war, I don't know what it is. The communist has done a great thing was to reunite the whole country, but the big mistake that they have made was to enforce their jungle laws on the people of VN. If they could do the thing like Singarpore in 1963 after this country became independent from England to utilize the old regime's resources and man power to further develop the countty, VN would get much support from the people. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, instead the communist placed so many people in hard labor camp and started to destroy the social economic of the South, million of the Southern Vietnamese families felt apart include my family. These are all the past, maybe a recent past, but we as Vietnamese must move on, you and I must move forward in our thinking. It's about time for Vietnamese to develop the country despite our differences and I see that happen every day now. I strongly believe, VN will be a strong and developed country just like South Korea or singarpores in a not very far future. This is the fact, Vietnamese are strong will people and determined, we could do that for thousand of years, we can do it agian. Thanks Baria for sharing my view.

precisely baria
a picture worth a thousand words......therefore in 2000 when VN celebrated 25 yrs unification, a reporter from CBC canadian national broadcast network came to VN to do a report.....he was stopped by a VN policeman on the street of SG, the police blocked the camera with his hand and asked the reporter for legal document issued by the government.
I won't go on with this............. but if you're in VN click on this website: saigonbao.com
you'll see you can access to all the Vn newspapers, but was denied when it comes to overseas websites. strange really!!!

and Baria
you live in USA AM I correct? tell me why did you have to paddle your boat to the shore of USA to become a refugee when you could stay in VN to enjoy the comfort, and security of the VN government?

lachong
everyone wants to forget the past....
I do too...when they give me back my Vietnamese citizenship, allow me to hold dual citizenships like other civilize and developing countries......because I was born there....what right do they have to take away my citizenship?

and the next time I'm back..... local policman don't beat around the bush trying to squeeze money out of my pocket.
I speak for myself only

..........other people dying in prison or on the street as results of VN police......
-chinese and their ships cross over VN sea or land border
-Korean and Taiwanese employers beatting the crap out of Vietnamese employees
-young Vietnamese girls are sold to all the asian countries for prostitution and VN workers got abused overseas.....without any help from VN embassies and consulates.

-----I don't give a hoot------

regarding buildings, thanks to the system......all those buildings that are delaying years after years, still have to wait more until those investors bribe the government, from municipal to provincial, to federal - national
if you go to Dalat and Vuntau now, you'll see 2 skeletons of 2 nice French hotel buildings stood there incomplete for over 10yrs? and so is the 20 storeys Petro building in SG......even the VN newspaper "tuoi tre" said "we fought the French only 9yrs, and a building took over 10yrs and not complete"


ever heard of this saying in VN?
"trên không ngay hàng dưới không thẳng lối"

hi everybody,i'm new here.Nice to meet u all.I found this site by chance when surfing on the net.I'm Viet at 110% but studying in France.I see some kind of very pessimistic here,except lachong and baria who has a very critical observation.It's just simply true about it.I'm sharing these view.

precisely baria
a picture worth a thousand words......therefore in 2000 when VN celebrated 25 yrs unification, a reporter from CBC canadian national broadcast network came to VN to do a report.....he was stopped by a VN policeman on the street of SG, the police blocked the camera with his hand and asked the reporter for legal document issued by the government.
I won't go on with this............. but if you're in VN click on this website: saigonbao.com
you'll see you can access to all the Vn newspapers, but was denied when it comes to overseas websites. strange really!!!

and Baria
you live in USA AM I correct? tell me why did you have to paddle your boat to the shore of USA to become a refugee when you could stay in VN to enjoy the comfort, and security of the VN government?

Everyone makes mistake. I did, so I am working my way to correct it. My goal to to move back. Don't thrive on it.

I am not saying VN government provides security and comfort for its citizens, actually, you did. All I said is that every little bad thing in VN is blown out of proportion by a few oversea people, or media to be exact.

Bang, are you sure that you never see a camera man got slammed any where else, besides VN, before?

lachong
everyone wants to forget the past....
I do too...when they give me back my Vietnamese citizenship, allow me to hold dual citizenships like other civilize and developing countries......because I was born there....what right do they have to take away my citizenship?

and the next time I'm back..... local policman don't beat around the bush trying to squeeze money out of my pocket.
I speak for myself only

..........other people dying in prison or on the street as results of VN police......
-chinese and their ships cross over VN sea or land border
-Korean and Taiwanese employers beatting the crap out of Vietnamese employees
-young Vietnamese girls are sold to all the asian countries for prostitution and VN workers got abused overseas.....without any help from VN embassies and consulates.

-----I don't give a hoot------

regarding buildings, thanks to the system......all those buildings that are delaying years after years, still have to wait more until those investors bribe the government, from municipal to provincial, to federal - national
if you go to Dalat and Vuntau now, you'll see 2 skeletons of 2 nice French hotel buildings stood there incomplete for over 10yrs? and so is the 20 storeys Petro building in SG......even the VN newspaper "tuoi tre" said "we fought the French only 9yrs, and a building took over 10yrs and not complete"


ever heard of this saying in VN?
"trên không ngay hàng dưới không thẳng lối"

Let's not forget the past, but don't put them in front!

Your citizenship was never stripped away. If you want to deny it you have to through the legal system.

I came back to VN five times. I never got beaten by any police man for my money, like Bang was. In fact, I only saw traffic cops. Was I lucky, or what?

There are problems everywhere, more or less. Let's not make it any worse than it is. May be Bang lives in Shangri-La, where there are no problems, just roses!

Thank you and welcome to the forum, Fatcat.

In fact,i want just to share a little bit with u guys what are really going on in France,in Paris( to be exact).Recent riots in France ,i think,may be everybody heard at least a little bit about that.You knows what,in every poor "ghetto"-very poor residential quarter in the periphery of Paris,young peoples are controled ID or passport every time they met a police man.If they forget those things at home,they'll get to go to the police station for a while (sometimes it last 2 day ).You knows,it was the government faults to be so ignorant about what are going on in these quarters.When they can't keep creating more jobs,they arrest people.That's absolutely insane.
So when the people living in these zone can't support anymore,they burn cars and houses to express their anger.
All in all,VIetnam is still a developing country-it's definitely not France or Australia.So,in some extent,what is happening in VN is acceptable.Need more time when people get feeded and get where to live,the mentality will change.What we can do now is accelerate the processus in a cooperative and constructive spirit.
But of course,we all know there're many things in VN needed to improve.I never deny it.
Ah,if you go to Russia oneday,u guys will figure the whole thing out.

In fact,i want just to share a little bit with u guys what are really going on in France,in Paris( to be exact).Recent riots in France ,i think,may be everybody heard at least a little bit about that.You knows what,in every poor "ghetto"-very poor residential quarter in the periphery of Paris,young peoples are controled ID or passport every time they met a police man.If they forget those things at home,they'll get to go to the police station for a while (sometimes it last 2 day ).You knows,it was the government faults to be so ignorant about what are going on in these quarters.When they can't keep creating more jobs,they arrest people.That's absolutely insane.
So when the people living in these zone can't support anymore,they burn cars and houses to express their anger.
All in all,VIetnam is still a developing country-it's definitely not France or Australia.So,in some extent,what is happening in VN is acceptable.Need more time when people get feeded and get where to live,the mentality will change.What we can do now is accelerate the processus in a cooperative and constructive spirit.
But of course,we all know there're many things in VN needed to improve.I never deny it.
Ah,if you go to Russia oneday,u guys will figure the whole thing out.

Yes, Fatcat, you hit the word "acceptable." We are not living in a perfect world. Everything has its price. You loose some, you win some. Some people expect VN to be a developed nation over night, without any social ills, even the slightest.

They said all development are owned by foreign companies. Even if that's the case, I don't see anything wrong with it. The States in America spent a fortune to lure foreign investment, why not VN?

Luckily, there are only a few of these people. They don't want you to see or hear the news from the source, but through them so they can put things only the way they want you to see. Ironically, these few people are fighting for freedom of speech and human rights in VN. Just imagine the day they hold the power in VN... Nah, just kidding. That will never happen.

All we can do his to foster the changes taking place in VN, like you said, Fatcat.

i think everything in here can CERTAINLY be changed into POLITICAL discussion by some " CERTAIN PEOPLE" ( you know who you are). and that's DAMN ANNOYING. the point of this forum is having a constructive and productive discussion on VN'S BUILDING PROGRESS OR ARCHITECT. so CUT THE CRAP. how many of those threads had turned into a freakin' political discussion,uhmmmm, *UNCOUNTABLE*, and IF YOU ARE SO INTO POLITICAL, go create yourself a freaking thread in a different forum. "OH MY GAWD,look at me, i'm so into George W Bush, tee hee ( eventhough everyone hates him , but i's ok with me) "<== u realize u'r lame??!! we, included myself, don't want to spend our times in this forum for political craps, because that's not the reason why we come here. i mean it's so OK to discuss about political issues but don't digress from facts. yes, and yes there are still many struggles in vietnam, but it happens in every society, not just in vietnam. so look up. coming from an inadequate and devastating life iduring the war ( or nothing techinically ), and suddenly got to come live in the "dream land" of the usa ( or any other countries) ... make people forget about everything surrounded them. yes , there're BAD THINGS happen in the states, also. ( ooh, SCARY) people try to make buttload of money and tend to forget about everything else. so they'd be like " oh my gawwd, it never happened here, vietnam sucks!" YES, AND FOR SURE, IT DOES HAPPEN IN THE STATES OR ELSE WHERES IN THE WORLD. DON'T BE SO ILL-INFORMED. u got proof about the camercanman's incident! or u just heard it from someone else? policemen DON'T JUST RANDOMLY come up to you and beat the crap out of you. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL. the reason why most of the oversea vnese hates vietnam because they don't know much about vietnam, and yes there're LAWS in vietnam too, ( surprise!!). why would you bribe them if u know it's illegal and why don't you sue them for taking bribe? you certainly can . and u also can prosecute the policeman who beat you down at the people's court, but would you be willing to do all of that? ( think about it ). u take government at all??? the website u listed above is blocked because of people like you. why would vn want riots happen all over the country because of those overseas. and why do certain parts of oversea vnese protest vnese artists or other people from vietnam when they come over for performing and doing businesses? or try to ban stuffs from vietnam. THINK. it's VICE VERSA. it's not strange. LOOK. not everyone lives in the us or other countries " paddled their ways to the us on refugee's baot or whatever u callit"... IT'S SO NOT TRUE. oh my gawwddd. are you sure that Baria was one of the boatmen? I DOUBT THAT. and why do you keep coming back or want to keep your vietnam's citizenship if you abhor vietnam so much? mr. i-know-all. if you dont like what's happening in vietnam right now. why don't you give us a hand in making it a beter place, instead of being such a lame-ass. look, vietnam is still a developing country, it's not like everything-has-to-be-perfect place. funny how some overseas act when they come back to vietnam, they act like they're " quy-s-toc" but theyr so cheap when they get back to wherever they call " dream land". and last, this whole thing is GETTING ABSURB.....!!! noone likes communist but we've learnt to accept it and strive hard to change the country itself. :weirdo:

Huuu...Raaah! proX.

Things that needed not to be done, done. Why spent time protest the performers from VN? To me, it's all about jealousy.

Things that needed to be done, not done. Why there is no protest in front of Singapore's embassies or consulates to save the young Vietnamese about to be hang over there?

Like Vietnamese saying "dao duc gia."

we must try to accept it.
But at least,there are some signs of minor improvement in our gov,and let's hope that in the near future those corruption things wont be a big problem anymore.

but i must agree that the VN police are so horrible.Most of them were not well-educated.They dont know that their task is to protect ppl,not to bullsh*t ppl.They dont know how to say good words,only "*$#$%@!" when talking with ppl.
Hope i dont have to see this anymore in de futur.

Hey everybody, this is my first post here so if I make a mistake or accidentally offend someone, please forgive me! I don't want to start up another political war, but I'd like to clear some misconceptions that Vietnamese people have about our own history.

Maybe I wasn't born early then to know any thing about war stuff, but I know now Vietnam has a very impressive historical record. We fought against the Chinese for thousand of years, then the Mogolian. What most impressive in all those years was Vietnamese were determined to become independent and maintain its identity while influenced much of the invader's cultures. Vietnamese also fought against the French, then the American, I do understand that many Vietnamese don't want to think this was an American war, I respect that. However, the American would not waiste time, money, and human lives for VN if the war did not benifit them, that's true with the French as well. Kennedy assasinated President Ngo Dinh Diem, because president Diem didn't want US troops present in VN, but just aids. The American has bombed the Northern region of VN and destroyed their villages, if you don't think this is an American war, I don't know what it is. The communist has done a great thing was to reunite the whole country, but the big mistake that they have made was to enforce their jungle laws on the people of VN. If they could do the thing like Singarpore in 1963 after this country became independent from England to utilize the old regime's resources and man power to further develop the countty, VN would get much support from the people. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, instead the communist placed so many people in hard labor camp and started to destroy the social economic of the South, million of the Southern Vietnamese families felt apart include my family. These are all the past, maybe a recent past, but we as Vietnamese must move on, you and I must move forward in our thinking. It's about time for Vietnamese to develop the country despite our differences and I see that happen every day now. I strongly believe, VN will be a strong and developed country just like South Korea or singarpores in a not very far future. This is the fact, Vietnamese are strong will people and determined, we could do that for thousand of years, we can do it agian. Thanks Baria for sharing my view.

Firstly, as much as nationalist/communist propaganda likes to assert that Vietnam is "vo dich," it simply is untrue. Vietnam's two thousand years military contact with China has been much more of a defeat than a victory. The Han dynasty, around the first Century CE, launched the first military campaigns against Vietnam. Much of the Chinese efforts, however, were successfully repelled during this era. The Han dynasty soon collapsed afterwards, and China plunged into a dark period of internal and external struggles, where it was essentially broken up into three main kingdoms and a number of smaller ones. Once reunified under the Tang Dynasty (to be sure, the Sui dynasty had reunify the country prior) China once again try to seize control of Vietnam, or Annam, and became successful. It then set up a puppet government in Vietnam which was sustained through the Song period. After China's defeat to the Mongols, however, Vietnam was able to reclaim independence and fought off the Mongol invasion. If its one thing Vietnam should be proud of in its history, it's Vietnam's successful repellence of the Mongols. As the Ming Dynasty regained Han rule in China, The Empire once again seized control of Vietnam. In an attempt to resist Chinese rule a Vietnamese emperor under the surname of Le led a rebellion. The uprising was quickly destroyed and the Emperor Le fled into the Jungles where he avoided Chinese capture. Subsequently, the Chinese burned all Vietnamese artwork, literary works, and history books to extinguish the country's hope of regaining independence; this is why Vietnamese culture and history prior to this period is blurry to us today. After the death of the third Ming, however, China went into a period of recluse, and Vietnam was able to rule itself.

In 1853 Emperor Napoleon III of France initialized the colonization of Indochina for two main reasons: a Gateway into China and a source of rubber. By the mid-1800s, China was caught between traditional values, internal uprisings, and western influence and threat. It was becoming unstable and everyone (the western powers & Japan) was waiting for it to crack open and take a piece of the riches inside for himself. Britain with its India, Russia & Japan with their respective homelands, and the US with its Philippines all pose fierce competition for France who must take what is left: Indochina. The rubber industry also proved profitable to France at the time.

After France's defeat to Germany in WWII, however, Vietnam was able to regain independence, though it never really enjoyed it. Japan, in its quest to be Asia's leader, aimed to take Indonesia and swallow what it could chew along the way. Vietnam was successful in repelling Japan's attacks; keep in mind where Japan's interests and concentrations lied. During that time, S. VN was under the "maintenance" of Britain, while N. VN was of China.

After WWII, France reclaimed its colony of Indochina, this time for a different reason: to revive its lost glory. The U.S, subsequently, made a mistake in supporting France instead of Vietnamese nationalists. At the time, however, the U.S's support falls perfectly into place of it foreign policies, namely the Marshall Plan, which aimed to rebuild Western European power to hold off wide spread communism. As for the Viets, their brief enjoyment of independence and experience fighting against the Japanese rebuilt their will and ability to reclaim independence. A number of rebellious groups were formed, but the most successful, by far, were the Vietminh's, led by Ho Chi Minh. France suffered a humiliating defeat, after having underestimated their enemies and Indochina was granted independence.

In the formation of the new Vietnamese government, the U.S feared that the Vietnamese would turn to Communism. After having rejected their request for aid, the U.S knew it had no chance in turning the entity of Vietnam to Democracy & Capitalism. But South Vietnam was unhappy with the Vietminh, mainly since they consisted largely of northerners, and so the U.S successfully canceled the election in Vietnam which would have determined its government. South Vietnam claimed independence, but within a short period of time the North launched campaigns to reunify the country. The U.S then got involved but they persisted on the idea that S. VN should fight its own war, so it never gives a full invasion to the North. Ironically, the U.S's plan to provide temporary defense and a quick retreat turned into the longest war and most tragic and humiliating war in the country's history. The result and course of the war is where it gets controversial, so I won't discuss it.

Some things to point out:
- The U.S's motivations in VN were not the same as France's: China is no longer a goldmine and the advent of plastic during WWII replaced the need for natural rubber. Rather it was because of a global competition between the U.S and U.S.S.R & the U.S's want to open up a new market for Capitalization.
- Kennedy did not assassinate Diem, it was more of a “we'll just close our eyes & ears” Diem was hated among the South Vietnamese because of his administration's persecution of Buddhists and exploitation of property for his own benefits. The coupe was set up entirely by the Southern Viets, although some evidence does suggest that Diem was killed by the CIA.
- Vietnam's history is really sad, as it was manipulated by the international community to be their game piece. But i think most of us would agree that had the South won, S. VN would be among the Asian Tigers, if not their leader, today.
- Although I hate the communist government of Vietnam, I have to give them credit for stabilizing the country after nearly a half-century of chaos. But they've done that through fear rather than compassion.
-Also I think those who make statements such as "Ho Chi Minh is a hero" is just flaming up controversy as much as those reacting violently to it.
- Although I hate the communist government of Vietnam, I have to give them credit for stabilizing the country after nearly a half-century of chaos. But they've done that through fear rather than compassion.
- I really don't want to fan up any flames here, just want to provide a recount of the country's history for those who do not truely understand it (sadly most vietnamese students graduating from High School in Vietnam knows much less than I do on the subject). & i wrote this all out of memories so some names & dates are wrong. Again, sorry


--------------------------------------------------------

Moving on, why is Saigon trimming down the heights of those tall ones? By trying to preserve the classics they are preventing the next generation of Vietnamese architecture from becoming anything great.

What i thought Bang meant by the police were "beating around the bush" is that they were trying to squeeze some money out of him subtlely, if u haven't been in the country long enuff, then u probably might not realize what they are doing.

-peace

really don't want to fan up any flames here, just want to provide a recount of the country's history for those who do not truely understand it (sadly most vietnamese students graduating from High School in Vietnam knows much less than I do on the subject). & i wrote this all out of memories so some names & dates are wrong. Again, sorry


Excepts me. :)

History and related political stuffs has turned into a nasty, eerie thing back there....a possible answer u will hear after mentioning it to ordinary ppl is: What?Troi oi, Muon phan dong ha?....that's their first reaction no matter what they're really thinking.

Imo, Vietnam is always the most beautiful, the best country in the world for Vietnameses by and large. When ppl talk about one's traditional way of thinking, what they are so proud of, even its just a prejudice, then a subtle way is very needed.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers. :cheers:

OK, Vietnam's history sucks!
OK, Vietnam's presence sucks!
OK, Vietnam's future sucks!
There are nothing left!
We are doomed!

:) Hey Saigon_monsooner u were rite! :runaway:
Vietnam's history does suck
It's present is to say the least needs working, but to ssay the worst is plastic surgery went wrong. There have been a lot of signs that it is improving & yet many others that it is not getting any better. The government is still unwilling to loosen up and that's screwing up a lot of the country's opportunities to modernize. Vietnam's future looks bright, but how long b4 it truly brightens is still unknown. So until then the gorvernment will still be criticized.

VN history only sucks in the anti-French & American period.And I really love the time before that,the time when Vn was still an monarchy country.

In every country, a foreign reporter must have "accreditation," permission from the host government to report, and a work visa, essentially.

In Chicago, I was hassled for taking photos at a suburban train station (which was so old it was falling apart), and a fellow with a video camera had the police called on him because he didn't have a permit. And this was before 9/11.

Just my two cents about Bang's example...

Vietnam history is awesome. I love it.

Despite what we've gone through and the odds stacked against us, we've managed to defeat adversaries, learn from it and prosper.

Viet Nam Van Tue Van Tue Van Van Tue

Great info, so a few others can see more. Thanks, Jaro.

But again, this reporter's incident is big, only because it happened in VN. A few tends to see bad things happened thousands of miles away so well that they don't know what happened within a square mile around them. Boy, talking about far-sighted!

Hey everybody, this is my first post here so if I make a mistake or accidentally offend someone, please forgive me! I don't want to start up another political war, but I'd like to clear some misconceptions that Vietnamese people have about our own history.



Firstly, as much as nationalist/communist propaganda likes to assert that Vietnam is "vo dich," it simply is untrue. Vietnam's two thousand years military contact with China has been much more of a defeat than a victory. The Han dynasty, around the first Century CE, launched the first military campaigns against Vietnam. Much of the Chinese efforts, however, were successfully repelled during this era. The Han dynasty soon collapsed afterwards, and China plunged into a dark period of internal and external struggles, where it was essentially broken up into three main kingdoms and a number of smaller ones. Once reunified under the Tang Dynasty (to be sure, the Sui dynasty had reunify the country prior) China once again try to seize control of Vietnam, or Annam, and became successful. It then set up a puppet government in Vietnam which was sustained through the Song period. After China's defeat to the Mongols, however, Vietnam was able to reclaim independence and fought off the Mongol invasion. If its one thing Vietnam should be proud of in its history, it's Vietnam's successful repellence of the Mongols. As the Ming Dynasty regained Han rule in China, The Empire once again seized control of Vietnam. In an attempt to resist Chinese rule a Vietnamese emperor under the surname of Le led a rebellion. The uprising was quickly destroyed and the Emperor Le fled into the Jungles where he avoided Chinese capture. Subsequently, the Chinese burned all Vietnamese artwork, literary works, and history books to extinguish the country's hope of regaining independence; this is why Vietnamese culture and history prior to this period is blurry to us today. After the death of the third Ming, however, China went into a period of recluse, and Vietnam was able to rule itself.

In 1853 Emperor Napoleon III of France initialized the colonization of Indochina for two main reasons: a Gateway into China and a source of rubber. By the mid-1800s, China was caught between traditional values, internal uprisings, and western influence and threat. It was becoming unstable and everyone (the western powers & Japan) was waiting for it to crack open and take a piece of the riches inside for himself. Britain with its India, Russia & Japan with their respective homelands, and the US with its Philippines all pose fierce competition for France who must take what is left: Indochina. The rubber industry also proved profitable to France at the time.

After France's defeat to Germany in WWII, however, Vietnam was able to regain independence, though it never really enjoyed it. Japan, in its quest to be Asia's leader, aimed to take Indonesia and swallow what it could chew along the way. Vietnam was successful in repelling Japan's attacks; keep in mind where Japan's interests and concentrations lied. During that time, S. VN was under the "maintenance" of Britain, while N. VN was of China.

After WWII, France reclaimed its colony of Indochina, this time for a different reason: to revive its lost glory. The U.S, subsequently, made a mistake in supporting France instead of Vietnamese nationalists. At the time, however, the U.S's support falls perfectly into place of it foreign policies, namely the Marshall Plan, which aimed to rebuild Western European power to hold off wide spread communism. As for the Viets, their brief enjoyment of independence and experience fighting against the Japanese rebuilt their will and ability to reclaim independence. A number of rebellious groups were formed, but the most successful, by far, were the Vietminh's, led by Ho Chi Minh. France suffered a humiliating defeat, after having underestimated their enemies and Indochina was granted independence.

In the formation of the new Vietnamese government, the U.S feared that the Vietnamese would turn to Communism. After having rejected their request for aid, the U.S knew it had no chance in turning the entity of Vietnam to Democracy & Capitalism. But South Vietnam was unhappy with the Vietminh, mainly since they consisted largely of northerners, and so the U.S successfully canceled the election in Vietnam which would have determined its government. South Vietnam claimed independence, but within a short period of time the North launched campaigns to reunify the country. The U.S then got involved but they persisted on the idea that S. VN should fight its own war, so it never gives a full invasion to the North. Ironically, the U.S's plan to provide temporary defense and a quick retreat turned into the longest war and most tragic and humiliating war in the country's history. The result and course of the war is where it gets controversial, so I won't discuss it.

Some things to point out:
- The U.S's motivations in VN were not the same as France's: China is no longer a goldmine and the advent of plastic during WWII replaced the need for natural rubber. Rather it was because of a global competition between the U.S and U.S.S.R & the U.S's want to open up a new market for Capitalization.
- Kennedy did not assassinate Diem, it was more of a “we'll just close our eyes & ears” Diem was hated among the South Vietnamese because of his administration's persecution of Buddhists and exploitation of property for his own benefits. The coupe was set up entirely by the Southern Viets, although some evidence does suggest that Diem was killed by the CIA.
- Vietnam's history is really sad, as it was manipulated by the international community to be their game piece. But i think most of us would agree that had the South won, S. VN would be among the Asian Tigers, if not their leader, today.
- Although I hate the communist government of Vietnam, I have to give them credit for stabilizing the country after nearly a half-century of chaos. But they've done that through fear rather than compassion.
-Also I think those who make statements such as "Ho Chi Minh is a hero" is just flaming up controversy as much as those reacting violently to it.
- Although I hate the communist government of Vietnam, I have to give them credit for stabilizing the country after nearly a half-century of chaos. But they've done that through fear rather than compassion.
- I really don't want to fan up any flames here, just want to provide a recount of the country's history for those who do not truely understand it (sadly most vietnamese students graduating from High School in Vietnam knows much less than I do on the subject). & i wrote this all out of memories so some names & dates are wrong. Again, sorry


--------------------------------------------------------

Moving on, why is Saigon trimming down the heights of those tall ones? By trying to preserve the classics they are preventing the next generation of Vietnamese architecture from becoming anything great.

What i thought Bang meant by the police were "beating around the bush" is that they were trying to squeeze some money out of him subtlely, if u haven't been in the country long enuff, then u probably might not realize what they are doing.

-peace


I understand most the fact that you present here are probably from books and appreciate that, unfortunately, there are events that can go untold. I find it very hard to believe that the death of Diem has not thing to do with the American. Diem opposed the idea of having the American troops in VN so why not get rid of him then create a new servant who obey the master. That's exactly what the American did, they brought Thieu or Ky home after the death of Diem. Do you think that books will write about Bush went to Iraq for his ticket to get re-eclected in the second term. I don't think so. That fact will tell you that Iraq harbors terrorists and invented biological weapon so they must be defeated in name of democracy, but the fact will not tell you that Bush knew his administration was soon to be doomed if he didn't get a jump start on the economy which gone bad then. Bush needed to stimulate his economy and oil seems to be a major factor in it. Guess who are the contractors to help rebuild Iraq? and Guess who most benifit from this events? I would think if it is not Boeing then it must be Lockheed Martin Corp.

I don't know about other Vietnamese, but I am certainly pround of who I am. Vietnamese history was suck, I agree. We were defeated over and over during the one thousand years of colony of China. Perhaps, in the eyes of the Chinese, we were just a small Southern tribal. We can't fight the giant, how can we claim victory, it make no sense. But one thing that I do know Vietnamese were always in high spirit to strike for our independent despite China's giant forces. I think this is a kind of victory that Vietnamese people should be pround of.

If south Vietnam won the war, VN is probably one of the tiger in the region, I totally agree. I wish it had happened that way, unfortunately It didn't. But now, the communist rules the country, caused debilitation aleast 20 years after the unification. Things now have improved, of course there are huge existing problems, it would be a micracle if there are not. The question is that should we continue to hate communist? In my opion, we should not because of the future of VN and the next generation. We (in general) should allow the communist to expose more the so called "democratic society", allow them free trade in the world, the more they penetrate, the better mentaltiy they will alter. Maybe some day world will learn some things from them too. As Vietnamese, I always like to see we are as one, in hand to re-built our nation for the better society for our next generation to come. I would hate to see that our children grow up hating other Vietnamese because you are communist and I am not. Peace.

I understand most the fact that you present here are probably from books and appreciate that, unfortunately, there are events that can go untold. I find it very hard to believe that the death of Diem has not thing to do with the American. Diem opposed the idea of having the American troops in VN so why not get rid of him then create a new servant who obey the master. That's exactly what the American did, they brought Thieu or Ky home after the death of Diem. Do you think that books will write about Bush went to Iraq for his ticket to get re-eclected in the second term. I don't think so. That fact will tell you that Iraq harbors terrorists and invented biological weapon so they must be defeated in name of democracy, but the fact will not tell you that Bush knew his administration was soon to be doomed if he did get a jump start on the economy which gone bad then. Bush needed to stimulate his economy and oil seems to be a major factor in it. Guess who are the contractors to help rebuild Iraq? and Guess who most benifit from this events? I would think if it is not Boeing then it must be Ricky Martin.

I don't know about other Vietnamese, but I am certainly pround of who I am. Vietnamese history was suck, I agree. We were defeated over and over during the one thousand years of colony of China. In the eyes of the Chinese, we were just a small Southern tribal. We can't fight the giant, how can we claim victory, it make no sense. But one thing that I do know Vietnamese were always in high spirit to strike for our independent despite China's giant forces. I think this is a kind of victory that Vietnamese people should be pround of.

If south Vietnam won the war, VN is probably one of the tiger in the region, I totally agree. I wish it had happened that way, unfortunately It didn't. But now, the communist rules the country, caused debilitation aleast 20 years after the unification. Things now have improved, of course there are huge existing problems, it would be a micracle if there are not. The question is that should we continue to hate communist? In my opion, we should not because of the future of VN and the next generation. We (in general) should allow the communist to expose more the so called "democratic society", allow them free trade in the world, the more they penetrate, the better mentaltiy they will alter. Maybe some day world will learn some things from them too. As Vietnamese, I always like to see we are as one, in hand to re-built our nation for the better society for our next generation to come. I would hate to see that our children grow up hating other Vietnamese because you are communist and I am not. Peace.

But what happen if they persist in thinking that they are the leader of the Vietnamese forces ? What should we do if they still obey the Chinese ? Two weeks a go , I was in Hanoi for one week, my feelings are mitigated: nearly all manufactured products (except transportation materials) are imported from China. Even fruits are from China. There are lot of luxury cars (including a gigantic Hummer ) driven by gov officials while just 10-20 km from Hanoi (Cô? Loa precisely) , villagers still live in poverty because they just cannot
find customers for their crops. In Ninh Bi`nh Province, people can't afford terracotta bricks for their tiny home, they fall back on dried bricks made from plain mud.

Unlike in the US where poor people are given chances to soar providing hardwork. In VN countryside, people are unlikely to succeed without a connection to the party.

People have been cheated so many times that they cannot give another chance to the communists.

Personnally, I may be back to VN to live there , it doesn't mean that I support the current regime but I just want to share my life with those who are willing to overcome the hurdles set by this dictatural regime.

But what happen if they persist in thinking that they are the leader of the Vietnamese forces ? What should we do if they still obey the Chinese ? Two weeks a go , I was in Hanoi for one week, my feelings are mitigated: nearly all manufactured products (except transportation materials) are imported from China. Even fruits are from China. There are lot of luxury cars (including a gigantic Hummer ) driven by gov officials while just 10-20 km from Hanoi (Cô? Loa precisely) , villagers still live in poverty because they just cannot
find customers for their crops. In Ninh Bi`nh Province, people can't afford terracotta bricks for their tiny home, they fall back on dried bricks made from plain mud.

Unlike in the US where poor people are given chances to soar providing hardwork. In VN countryside, people are unlikely to succeed without a connection to the party.

People have been cheated so many times that they cannot give another chance to the communists.

Personnally, I may be back to VN to live there , it doesn't mean that I support the current regime but I just want to share my life with those who are willing to overcome the hurdles set by this dictatural regime.

Trân, I don't know where you live, but anyway, look aroung you anywhere
you'll find chinese-made good. Not only in Vietnam. At least, the Hummer you saw wasn't made in China, was it?

How do you know those people on four-wheelers are government officials (can bo)? Can you tell them apart from others? Or you just assume that any person on a car/SUV is an officer? I don't think they shown their party-membership card to you that readily! I have a distant uncle, owning a plastic molding shop, who happens to have 2 SUVs, you don't assume that he is one, are you?

Let me tell you how poor people can soar where I live, Los Angeles Metro Area. On any given night, there are more than 300,000 children go to bed hungry; there are 92,000 people sleep on the sidewalks or alleys on cardboard boxex or makeshift tents. That is in LA, the second largest city in the US, the richest nation on earth!

Now, tell me what you saw in Ninh Binh.

This is the price that VN has to pay as VN wants to intergrate into the world free trade economy. Vietnamese companies need to create better brand name and innovation in order to compete. This seem to be the way of how our free world society operates. China goods not only penetrate the Vietnamese market, but all over the world.

Let not forget that VN is still its infancy of development, and very poor still. And of course, the standard of living in VN can not compare with the United States, people here have way more subsdization from the government than people in VN.

Obstacles, corruption, inequallity are usually stand out with poor county like VN, but we don't realize it does exist in rich country like the US too. In the US, people are convicted for a criminal crime are labeled as a criminal. Do you think these people are giving second chance, maybe yes, maybe no. I have seen homeless people who have not been giving a second chance, could not get a job because companies have a right to turn people who have criminal history away, do you think this is equallity. Sadly, we don't see that, it's right here in our back yard. It's that mean I should hate the US, probably not.

Vietnamese communist is still Vietnamese communist regardless of what I think, however there are things that we can do to make a better communist. Let's not supress them as the trade embargo intended to do. Let's free trade with them, introduce them the material goods that they have never seen before, allow them to expose new technologies and our way of life and thinking. who knows in 20 or 30 years from now, VN may not have a communist word attachs to it any more.

Comparing Vn to the US doesn't make sense....Vietnam is poor poor country even if ur arguments ground on anything communism, war, bureaucracy......

I am not comparing Vietnam and US here, although a few of us always use US standards to gauge VN. I'm only trying to make a point that there are problems everywhere, and let's not making them larger than they really are. To a few people, only VN has problems, the rest of the world are just perfect!

VN apparently has too many predicaments, much more than many other countries. How the one-party government handled these problems is another story.

I can understand Chinese-made products have penetrated each and every households in the world, but fruits have to be import from China is utter absurd. Shame on the leadership of VN for not providing good infrastractures and markets for these local fruit farmers. Yet, state-owned produce companies are able to export 36 million USD worth of fruits annually to China.

Here is a song for the soaring eyes. This will tie up all.
http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2LIXKSGN8DBX02DWX8TV5UN1BU

So there are VN's fruit in China, also? Then why Chinese fruit became a problem in VN?

I don't know what you will do, besides talk, to help VN changing for the better. Rough talk? Gotta-say-something-bad-about-VN-before-I-can-eat-well days? Demonstration? Magnifying the problems? Drop leaflet from the sky? Overthrow VC government? Arm struggle? Revolution? Khang chien? Reinstate the embargo? Recall the embassador? Drop more bombs?

May be you may have more options than I can think of. Pick one and work on it!
Some people worked on the above for more than 30 years to no avail. Help them out!

I believe more trade, more influence, more understanding, more knowledge, more traveling, ... will help VN moving toward the better. I am doing my small part, like helping my relatives' children with their school tuition,...

Do something, even it is an extreme act, so you can say to yourself "I did something good for VN today," not "I bad mouthed VN today, and did nothing to better it!"

Now, shall we go back to the original question: When is Vietnam going to build some badass buildings? We are way off on the scope of this thread, this forum or skyscrapercity.com.

Vietnam's climate: tropical in south; monsoonal in north with hot, rainy season (mid-May to mid-September) and warm, dry season (mid-October to mid-March). This makes the country a year round fruit grower. 75% of the population live in rural area where they grow abundant of fruits/veg. Here is a metaphor: Florida imports oranges from Cuba. Let that seek in.

Yes, we can not change what it is the present, but that should not stop us from trying. You and I may not be able to do anything (except you: i pay my relatives' children tuition - Kudos to you if you feed unrelated kids), but people who found this thread and read about it would become aware of VN's situation. They may make a different. The best thing we can do is informed ourselves of current events. Criticism is the foundation for improvements. Critical thinking and debating lead to free ourselves from ignorant and arrogant.

Here is where i stand on VN:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=268588&page=1
or
We may not stop corruption at its root, because it is human nature to be greedy; however, we can reduce it. In my opinion, we need strong multi-parties (check and balance) in the government and free election and speech, which lay the foundations in an effort to reduce corruption. VN lacks all the latter ways because the communist government is the only strong party and free election and speech are scarce.

However, we should keep our hopes up for a free VN. I believe when VN becomes more developed, the people become more informed of how other countries' governments run and treat their people and understand democracy, then the possiblities are limitless.

Today's infants will grow up to lead the country, and they would make major changes such as getting rid of the one party regime and introducing democracy again that the people were not ready for in 1954 to VN. VN is different from the USSR in part that the one party regime will be destroyed when it becomes economically powerful. The same idea where America treated the Vietnam War like the Korean War which was why they failed. So please invest in VN now for a free VN in the future.

FYI: Florida, Texas and California do import oranges from Brazil.

Yes, two3toes. As you put it "we can reduce it," "when VN becomes more developed, the people become more informed of how other countries' governments run and treat their people and understand democracy, then the possiblities are limitless," "today's infants will grow up to lead the country, and they would make major changes," and "so please invest in VN now for a free VN in the future." That's what I meant all along.

"Criticism is the foundation for improvements. Critical thinking and debating lead to free ourselves from ignorant and arrogant." Criticism is great when you see both sides of the issue. It becomes ineffective when people only look on one side, ignoring the other. I called it cheap propaganda.

See, we have a lot common ground!

in Switzerland they import all the herbs, vegetables, and fruits FRESH from thailand.i dont noe about other european countries

Please read my metaphor again and again. "Florida imports oranges from Cuba". Yes, FL, TX, CA and AZ import oranges from Brazil and Mexico. Brazil, United States, Mexico, India, Spain, China, Iran, Italy, Egypt, Indonesia are major orange producers. Not to say Cuba don't produce any oranges. They do but mostly for domestic consumption. Cuban orange production consists primarily of Valenica oranges. This type of orange has many seeds and a less-desirable external appearance. Furthermore, the US has an embargo in place against Cuba.

I believe what we have here is more or less constructive criticism but not malicious or uninformed criticism.

Spare me the details of types of oranges, will you. I'm not very much into that.

It's good to have contructive criticism, because it will do what we called it, constructive!

have you guys been following up Sea Games 23 in Phillipines?

Yeah, I watched some of the soccer games on VTV4, and other games result on the net. Vietnam's team is doing great.

But if you look closely, Phillipines' facilities do not look that good. The Balocod field is just about the same as Baria's. Other places look grim. May be it's only my perception?

Yeah, I watched some of the soccer games on VTV4, and other games result on the net. Vietnam's team is doing great.

But if you look closely, Phillipines' facilities do not look that good. The Balocod field is just about the same as Baria's. Other places look grim. May be it's only my perception?

I red online, it said not only they use many old sport facilities, they don't treat the athletes very well either. The Thai sport federation said that the Phillipines being unfair so the Thai priminster threads to bring this to the regional olympic commitee to discuss about fare competitiion. The Vietnamese Team grap five gold medals of gymnastic area, this is great, and Wushu Team have done a nice job too, the majority of Vietnamese female athletes are beautiful. A few Vietnamese athletes brake record this time in Dien Kinh and grap total 9 golds, but took one away from nguyen dinh cuong due to his parner viotated the game rule, and a gold medal for 100m breath stroke went to a Vietnamese swimmer. I heard this never happened for the Vietnamese team in 40 years. I can't wait to see the male socer team get the gold medal this time, this will be my early Chrimas present.

instead of 16, 17, 20 storey buildings that look like housing projects.

I mean I want to see some badass buildings that really stand out. These under 20-storey buildings are so boring to look at. Even some ghetto buildings near where I live are over 20-storey tall.

Sorry for the blur, I just couldn't ask the driver to stop in the middle of the motorway.
http://quoctran.pham.free.fr/vn/Photos/Nord/nha_xau.JPG

Wow...where's that? a monolithic stalinist-style building in the middle of nowhere?

Tell us about the trip, Tran!

LacHong, you just got a pre-Christmas gift today! Vietnam U23 soccer team will be in for the final game with Thailand after beating Malaysian team 2-1. It wasn't pretty, but it was a good nail-biting game. The Thais are hard to swallow, but the boys can pull a Christmas miracle.

I woke up at 5:00 am this morning to check the result, I can't tell you how insaned I was. I screamed very loud that woke up my roomate too, luckily my roomate about to wake up to study for his final any way. This will be a third times, hope they can pull it off this time. Judging from what they(VN) have been playing this year so far and at the sea game, they actually played better. But, I have a feeling that they are not going to defeat Thailand. Thailand is a strong team, they are unbeatable for a long time. Like you said, hope a miracle will happen this year. Damn, both the male and femal team are getting gold, awsome.

after a hectic week, I'm astounded by some of the comments when I scan read through this thread

Seriously I don't know where people are going, but I'm not there with you!!!

I'm very much still talking about buildings, but digging to the root of it.

you know how many projects planned, proposed, broken ground.....and still laying idle?
to build a building in VN all those investors have to crack doors after doors before they can get their buildings off the ground. the patient ones stayed, others left.......momentarily after they were asked to go through more "procedure"
and you wonder why all those people refused to take the compensation so construction could start soon.........the people were being compensated very generous, but at the end they received like a fraction of the original .....now where did it all go?
read this quote on ashui "Vn is building a lot of office so Vn is catching up with neighbouring countries like Thailand?" .....answer: "NOPE, curently Saigon the biggest city has only 80.000sqm of office spaces......Bangkok of Thailand has over 3.000.000"


and as for VN , if you're vietnamese and don't care about its wellfare, why should I right? I'm glad that CHina has the power to tell you what to do...........CHina tells you to "jump" you say "how high?".......China wants more of your land....you say "sir how much sir?"

Baria.
you said I'm the minority right? then please say those things you said here standing in the middle of Bolsa little saigon......see what will happen to you.......infact say that in Toronto, Sydney, Paris, and alll the major cities with lots of Vietnamese ghettos.

Overseas Vietnamese don't talk like you, you sounded more like a Vn student studied oversea and happened to know a thing or two of California

don't want to waste time with this trash....... but could someone transalate what Prox said? I don't understand "Anh Van Hoi Viet-My" and "MSN chatroom slangs"

and what the fuck is "quy-s-toc"? hehehe

sorry when I'm in Vn I wore rag on the street......like I said my family didn't even let me wear watch or bring my camera.
and only when I wore old clothes that I felt more at ease with the local, aand espcially I spent lots of times with the street kids in SG.......currently I'm sponsoring 2 children.......so U know...don't think every is 16 and lives in Ho CHi Minh city and studying English at Hoi Viet My and spent flexible hours on Chatroom to learn all those American street slangs usage.
Prox, I spared U lots of time because you're 16, young and rich of sugar. and like most Vietnamese I don't judge you, you're underage I judge you're parents.

see TQ....the kid is same age as u..15-16...........but no matter what shit I said to him, he kept his class, and dignity.......that's why I could tell what kind of parents he has and what kind of parents you have.

right now it's 4am, let me just end this with this a quote made by a filipino on the Philipine forum earlier
"Vietnamese are uneducated and communist."
This is painfully untrue, but to some members in this thread this remark happens to be right on the target

The corrupted Vietnamese communists are still holding Vietnam back.

Baria.
you said I'm the minority right? then please say those things you said here standing in the middle of Bolsa little saigon......see what will happen to you.......infact say that in Toronto, Sydney, Paris, and alll the major cities with lots of Vietnamese ghettos.

Overseas Vietnamese don't talk like you, you sounded more like a Vn student studied oversea and happened to know a thing or two of California

You are right, I'll get beat up bad in Little Saigon. And quickly, so the ones who beat me can go buy tickets to VN for leisure before travel agents run out of tickets! I saw cars with the yellow flags on streets blaring music from VN. What an irony! Lately, I also heard made-in-VN music sang by in-VN singers on Little Saigon radio, the anti-VC media stellar. Is it a fashion or political correctness that people only speak one sided? Sure, many people will beat me up for what I said, but there are people like what I said 'cause I said the truth. I speak of both sides of every issue. I don't know, but I think it is against my religion to lie or to talk about the non-existance. I don't put in my 8-cents on things that I don't know or not sure. The only thing I respect is the truth, and no one, not even myself, can change that. If people hate me for not saying what they like to hear, I'm sorry, that's the way it is.

So far, I'm OK. Not beaten up, as yet. And please, no profanity. Stay cool. It will help you think better.

You are right, I only know a thing or two of California, besides the other 40 of the 48 lower states.

LacHong, we better stop talking about good news from VN soccer team at Sea Games. It is bad news for some, besides the Malaysian.

Sat Dec 3, 7:02 AM ET



TAIPEI, Taiwan - The weight of the world's tallest skyscraper — specially built to withstand Taiwan's frequent earthquakes — could be causing a rise in the number of tremors beneath it, a professor from the island wrote in a scientific journal.

Lin Cheng-horng, an earthquake specialist at the National Taiwan Normal University in the capital, Taipei, says the 1,679-foot Taipei 101 building — named for the number of floors — might rest on an earthquake fault line.

In the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letters, Lin wrote that the pressure of the building's 700,000 tons on the ground may be leading to increased seismic activity.

The tremors "could be a direct result of the loading of the mega-structure," said an abstract of Lin's article, published on the American Geophysical Union's Web site.

However, Taiwan's Central Weather Bureau said on Friday that the one year since the building's completion was too short a time in which to evaluate its effect on tremors.

Taipei 101, which looks like a giant steel-and-glass bamboo shoot, is equipped with a 733-ton ball suspended near the top that moves to counter the force of earthquakes or strong winds.

Earthquakes are frequent in Taiwan. Most cause no casualties or damage, but in September 1999 a magnitude 7.6 quake in central Taiwan killed more than 2,300 people.

don't want to waste time with this trash....... but could someone transalate what Prox said? I don't understand "Anh Van Hoi Viet-My" and "MSN chatroom slangs"<===== i don't "DO" slangs....cuz it's against my ethnicity and nature...

and what the fuck is "quy-s-toc"? hehehe <=== it's a vietnamese term, which is used to imply those who try to act like "NOBILITY"...even though they're not.....themselves. there u go!! try to stay updated, can't ya? apology for any linguistic unconvinience!!

"sorry when I'm in Vn I wore rag on the street ( that's you problem!!!!)......like I said my family didn't even let me wear watch or bring my camera. <=== cuz ur family is WIERD!! try to keep a less complex and normal life wherever you go alright?? it'd help a lot...the problem is that some vnese pple from the states when they visit vietnam....they really try show that they "can't" really fit in the environment which they used to lived in b4......thats purely...SICK.....see...? i didnt live here for my entire life, but i'm grateful for the fact that i live my life here now. "NORMAL PEOPLE" try to keep everything simple whevever they go. it's not all about....VIETNAM THIS , VIETNAM THAT.......because vietnam is just like the rest of the world...so dont be like..." OH MY GAWWD, I HAVE TO HIDE EVERYTHING WHEN I'M IN VIETNAM, BCUZ IT'S SUCH A BAD PLACE" ...DON'T DRAMATIZE thing....it makes ur life more complicated........almost whatsoever thing people have in other places, we have it all here in vietnam!!so....just try not 2b an " extraterrestrial" in vietnam!! look at all the celebs and rich pple in the us, they have money (tonz) and power.....but most of them dont really act different at all.....theyr just who they are whenever they go....HAVING STUFFS...like brandy apparels, cellfone, high-tech stuffs,.....is not a bad thing .it's just PART OF OUR MODERN LIFE. the important thing is you act and reflect urself in society.



"and only when I wore old clothes that I felt more at ease with the local, aand espcially I spent lots of times with the street kids in SG.......currently I'm sponsoring 2 children......."<==== i'm so not a PREP myself. wut is your point? WHO DOESNT WANTT TO WEAR NEW/GOOD CLOTHES?? ( probably YOU!!!). even the STREET KIDS do.. my point is that......don't be such a HYPOCRTIE , you put on fine clothes when ur in wherever the hell u live currently, and try to look "MISERABLE" when u go to vietbnam....look, they dont need all the actings....all they really need is SYMPATHY and your love. you dont have to dress" HOMELESS-ISH" in order to "adapt" with them. sponsoring 2 homeless kids, it's very kind of u...and, LOOK...i spent hours doing voluntary services at the orphanage and street kids' villages.....with my friends......... and i myself do involve in a lot of community service with my school and friends in and around the city as well as in the suburban....and i do make money on my own.....

"so U know...don't think every is 16 and lives in Ho CHi Minh city and studying English at Hoi Viet My and spent flexible hours on Chatroom to learn all those American street slangs usage......"<===== first of all I'M almost 18 ......ALRIGHT?.... GET IT RIGHT!!!! actually, i was naturally born in the states, and i just happened to move to vietnam about a yr ago. therefore, i don't study english at HOI VIET MY like you assumed ( and whats bad about studyin english at ILA, or any other foreign-invested language intsituit. vietnmese kids in OC, take classes at vietngu school to study vietnamese during weekends). and what i said before in the previous posts r like CASUAL language which is being spoken my millions of pple worldwide.( but not you!! OBVIOUSLY )....and it's the voice of my generation...it's very common nowadays. i think you just need to catch up...and unfortunately, ur not in my generation so?????? they'r not street slangs...( street slangs r too "cheap") they'r wut teens really speak these days. DON'T TRY 2B FORMAL , even tho u'r not. i don't even have enuf time for myown self.school ,extra cirricula, and practicing with my band take most of my time. ....so....chatting with random people on yahoo is so MY FAVE THING TO DO EVERYDAY.....totally!!!.....( pshhhh!!! )


"Prox, I spared U lots of time because you're 16, young and rich of sugar. and like most Vietnamese I don't judge you, you're underage I judge you're parents."<=== so you expect me to R.E.S.P.E.C.T. you like the way i do towards my parents???? oh....kay.......!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't SPARE ME, because i dont even let you !!!!! and u have no RIGHT TO DO SO.!! ACTUALLY...I DONT EVEN HAVE A chance to DO that. ( ha! very funny) u no wut, u were 16 once and and "YOUNG" once.........so dont give me shit...cuz i DONT TAKE 'em. i hope that people WON'T SAY THINGS LIKE YOU SAID HERE TO YOUR DESCEDANTS IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!! AND DON'T you TREAT YOUNGER KIDS LIKE...CHILDREN...BECAUSE THEYR NOT....they do think more THAN YOU EVER THOUGHT OF.....I BET I'M WAY SMARTER THAN YOU WHEN YOU WERE at MY AGE.... my parents don't spoil me ...since i'm not a spoil brat like you thought ...i have to earn my money on myself....don't judge people!!! "rich of sugar"??? ...wut a fag!!!

"see TQ....the kid is same age as u..15-16...........but no matter what shit I said to him, he kept his class, and dignity"<=======hahahahahahahahha that's real comedic.....oh my gawwd....i'm so sorry that i messed with you....reallY...don't hate me...alright?.....APOLOGY!!.....what should i do to make it up for you now? .....OH EM GEE!! u dont DESERVE my friendlyness ....u always said that.....u really want individual right and equality in vn's society....."eh" ???? think about what you just wrote now...........and..xcuse me...mister.....WHO THE *BEEP* YOU THINK YOU ARE?.....I ALREADY HAVE A FATHER AT HOME...therefore, i dont really need another one...here...and dont try to be so....cuz U'R NOT GOOD AT IT AT ALL!!.....so ...you only be nice to those who doesn't talk back at you....and " KEEP HIS CLASS AND DIGNITY"......ohh...i see...i see!! that's....SOPHISTICATED...!! nice...
".......that's why I could tell what kind of parents he has and what kind of parents you have." <=== i'm just speaking my mind ...about WHAT I DON'T FEEL THAT IS RIGHT and most of your stuff is BULLSHIT!!! cuz in every single one of ur posts, u always had to conenct something to POLITICAL shits!! and that's just WRONG!!! we'r not here for ur political shits....people just dont sit down and be like......." lets have a conversation on politics...." ...it's not how the world works!!!!!! !I BET A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS PARTICULAR FORUM AGREE WITH WHAT I SAY HERE!! not just myself!!!! look at you!!!!!no seriously....u really think that.....YOU'RE A REAL GROWN UP!!!?? and you think everyone else younger than you is not worth talking to!!! i think you misled the whole point here,mister and totally misunderstood me. but it's ok with me.....cuz i dont give a *beep*! especially to you!!!!

===>ur infos on politics are kinda drawn from personal experience....about the statement made by the fillipinos!!!OK..its their right to say such things!! i can just make up something and post it here too!!!! so....don't get too paranoiac!!!! freak out!!! if i remember correctly my last post was focused more on how the thread is evolving, NOT YOU!!!!! i only reacted to your craps, which i thought was lame!!! stay cool...and get urself a chill pill!! :runaway: :sleepy:

prox is here, she is queer, she doesn't want anymore bears hehehe

From is from america eh? tell me which State and city?.....and why would ya smart parents bring ya back to VN to live when you're still in school? would it be better to attend secondary and post secondary school in the States instead of Ho CHi Minh city?

and you growing fast huh? 16 to 18 overnight

===>ur infos on politics are kinda drawn from personal experience....about the statement made by the fillipinos!!!OK..its their right to say such things!! i can just make up something and post it here too!!!! so....don't get too paranoiac!!!! freak out!!! if i remember correctly my last post was focused more on how the thread is evolving, NOT YOU!!!!! i only reacted to your craps, which i thought was lame!!! stay cool...and get urself a chill pill!! :runaway: :sleepy:


That's right Prox ya better not talked about me, because we're best friends, super super best friends, bosom friends.
I'm the friend........you're the bosom

ps. If anyone here read the comment made by the Filipino in the Philipino forum, could someone back me up? because if I made that up let lightning strike me down and get hit by a car tomorrow.....or hit Prox .....it's all good

Baria .......on medication my friend?

I said it a thousand times it's the government .......not North verses south or Vietnamese inland verses overseas
many people have gone back to visit VN, and they still prostesting when the commie come here......and no matter what changes they saw in VN they still don't talk like you.
great to be a man with principle, this ain't it.

Yes, I'm on medication. What's wrong with that? The medication might help me think better and put things on word better. Or I might need the pills that help me look one-sided!

What you said is true, but will those people show the same atitude they have here back home? Would they say "You are a commie! I hate you!" back home? Or "Yes, sir?"
Is that the principle you talk about? Chong cong nua voi! They still don't talk like me? Because I don't belong to the "chong-cong-nua-voi" group.

When John Howard, Australian prime minister, said he will review aids to Vietnam, including the My Thuan Bridge project, some of the people here, including oversea media, were so happy! They were happy, because the project might be scrapped. If this were to be, the lives of millions of people in the Mekong delta will not be improved. And some people were happy, because it proved that no one can work with VN government. Tell me, was that against the government or the people?

Sure I don't talk like them. Thank God! I will be beaten someday for what I said by the people, who is fighting for free speech in Vietnam!

This forum is about buildings. Building means structure. It also means progress. And this forum happens to be about Vietnam. Vietnam's progress. Without wanting to see that, this forum might pump up your blood pressure everytime you see the progress.

Anyway, stay cool! Don't use profanity. Don't drag other people's parents into it. If people don't agree with you, it does not automatically mean they were ill brought up.
Everyone deserves some respect here.

this is the thing baria
we all know the website is about building and construction,,,,,,but people don't show up to talk about buildings and construction..........only when it comes to moments and topics like this that things of small and petty come out to shine

and the world is changing fast, so is VN, wait a few more year to see the result.

lets remember this year hundred thousands of birds are killed in VN and we got earth quake for the first time in Sg .....and the virgin mary cried in SG, .......I don't know much about the suppersitious world but those events happened for a reason.

until then eat well and sleep well mah Baria friend.....I won't be on for another week.....got something to do, before Christmas.

ps. profanity don't come often for me.....only when I have gas

Virgin Mary also cried in Sacramento. Poor people in Sacramento! They must be suffering also. Geez, thanks, Arnold!

Moved