Canada Line Discussion | Metro Vancouver | In Service Aug 17 13:00-21:00 [Archive]

officedweller

December 1st, 2005, 06:24 AM

There is also a short section of trenched and underground Skytrain track in New Westminster - about 1 km.

*****************

An expensive tourist service is planned for Whistler for start up next year. Trains are being ordered by Rocky Mountaineer as part of its Jasper tour.

Business in Vancouver November 29-December 5, 2005; issue 840

Rocky Mountaineer set to roll out a Vancouver to Whistler service

New routes for the World Travel Award winner will generate

an estimated $35 million in economic spinoffs in B.C.

Bob Mackin

When Graham Gilley joined Rocky Mountaineer Vacations seven years ago, the company was described to him as a "garage band, waiting to go on the world stage."

The little band that could won the tourism industry's equivalent of a Grammy Award in mid-November and Gilley, vice-president of marketing and communications, hopes it's the next step toward gaining a better profile in its hometown.

"A lot of people don't know there's a train here, but that's OK. We always say we're better known in London, England, than we are in Vancouver," Gilley said. "Our market isn't necessarily here, although the friends and relatives and people coming to visit are important."

Rocky Mountaineer won its World Travel Award for leading travel experience by train against tourist excursions in South Africa, Australia, India, United Kingdom and Peru.

The award caps off a year in which the company doubled in size with the acquisition of Gray Line West - the Banff, Victoria and Vancouver tour bus operator - and the opening of a new station on Vancouver's False Creek Flats. In six months, it'll launch a new North Vancouver-to-Whistler service called the Whistler Mountaineer, which will connect with the Fraser Discovery Route to Jasper. RMV was awarded the contract by the provincial government, which owns the tracks but privatized BC Rail, on September 3, 2004. A six-month delay meant the new product wasn't launched in time for 2005's tourist season.

The locomotives are in Toronto, coaches are being built in Moncton and generator cars are being assembled in Kamloops. RMV sales agents are also burning up the phone lines and travelling to conventions in the U.S., Europe and Australia. Gilley said the new service, which starts at $99 one way, will be heavily marketed to British Columbians.

Gilley said the new routes will generate $35 million in economic spinoff in B.C., eventually ballooning to $65 million by 2010.

Rocky Mountaineer Vacations operates year-round with its mid-April to mid-October Rocky Mountaineer two-day, all-daylight tours in B.C. and Alberta through the Rocky Mountains, with limited Christmastime service.

Originally Great Canadian Railtour Company was awarded the rights to Via Rail's daylight tourist service, which was begun in 1988 and cut back in 1990. More than 800,000 passengers have travelled aboard the service, making it the largest passenger-only privately owned rail service in North America.

RMV opened a 20,000-square-foot train station on False Creek Flats. During off-season it's used for corporate events and private parties. The company leases eight acres from CN, remodelling the old CN locomotive repair shed built in 1954 for $4 million at 1755 Cottrell Street near Terminal Avenue.

The company's corporate offices are slated to move next door to a truck terminal to be renovated in 2007. RMV also owns the 98-room Thompson Hotel in Kamloops, giving it a downtown presence to augment its 32-acre railyard.

Gilley all but put to rest any possibility RMV would get involved with Tri-White Corp.'s cruise-targeted White Pass & Yukon Rail tourist train in Skagway, Alaska. Gilley said RMV "has its plate full" and is too busy with its new products to expand further for now.

bmackin@biv.com

Jaye101

December 1st, 2005, 06:25 AM

:yes: Yeah, it is heavy rail.
Are you guys sure?? I know Wikipedia is not a good source for information, but I quote them on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Line

The Canada Line, also known as the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver Line ("RAV Line") is an new automated light rapid transit (ALRT) line of the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) currently under construction. The line will be the third in Greater Vancouver, Canada and will be added to the existing SkyTrain rapid transit system. The line will connect downtown Vancouver to the Vancouver International Airport and Richmond City Centre in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics. Governance of the project is through RAV Project Management (RAVCO), a subsidiary of TransLink.

But I found another source...:http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/releases/nat/2005/05-h264e.htm

Beginning in 2009… and then about every 5 minutes after that, the Canada Line will carry people between Richmond, Vancouver International Airport (YVR), and Vancouver’s Waterfront Centre in 25 minutes or less. The automated light rail technology will add almost 19 km and 16 new stations to the region’s growing rapid transit network.

So I guess it's light rail.

officedweller

December 1st, 2005, 06:32 AM

Officially it's called "light metro".

The cars are actually quite large and use a 3rd rail electrical pick-up (not overhead like most light rail).

A 2-car train is 41 m long and 3 m wide and 3.6 m high, so each car is about 20.5 m long and 3 m wide.

That dimension compares favourably with a TTC subway car, which Transit Toronto says for a TTC T-1 subway car are:
Length (over anti-climbers): 22.698 m (74' 5-5/8'')
Length (over coupler faces): 22.787 m (74' 9-1/8'')
Width (over side sheets): 3.134 m (10' 3-38'')

So each Canada Line car is only 13 cm narrower and about 2.1 m shorter than a TTC T-1 subway car. The old TTC Gloucester subway cars were only 55ft7.5in long. Other cities also use shorter "subway" cars than Toronto. So each car is of "subway" dimensions.

Each train, however, will only have 2 cars (for now), so that's probably why it's called a "light metro".

Jaye101

December 1st, 2005, 06:34 AM

I don't get it though? How can it be a subway sized car, with heavy metal... Yet they still call it light. Does it have something to do with mechanics?

officedweller

December 1st, 2005, 06:37 AM

"Light" as used in "light rail" and "light metro" does NOT refer to weight of the cars - it refers to carrying capacity. These trains only have 2 cars - so the capacity is less than a full fledged heavy rail subway (Sheppard has 4 cars, TTC elsewhere has 6 cars, Bart has as many as 10 cars).

In fact, LRT cars that travel at grade, like TTC streetcars, have to be built heavier than subway cars to withstand crashes from auto and truck traffic.

Overground

December 1st, 2005, 10:03 AM

^^^Very helpful info.

I've updated the map again to include Woodlands and refer to it and the other planned stations as 'future'. Downtown is kind of screwed up but I can't be arsed to fix it anymore. Thanks to whoever did this map originally anyway.
I wasn't too sure on when the Coquitlam line is supposed to be finished, on the Translink site it says 2009. Also, on the name of the Coquitlam line, did I read that right that they will call it either the Spirit Line or Evergreen Line?? If it has to be either one of those names well let's hope it's Evergreen or just plain Green.

Updated.
http://tinypic.com/i2v8me.jpg

Westcoast604

December 1st, 2005, 06:10 PM

^ Not to critisize too much but the letters you corrected look grey and distorted. It would have been easier just to copy and paste an existing letter from the map into that place, that way it would be undistinguishable.

Overground

December 1st, 2005, 09:11 PM

Sorted.

addisonwesley

December 1st, 2005, 10:02 PM

Haha, camble.

officedweller

December 1st, 2005, 11:37 PM

YVR3 is now also "future"

rise_against

December 1st, 2005, 11:56 PM

If you look at that map from Overground, the red (Canada) and green (Coquitlam) lines are to be complete by 2009 or 2010. The blue (Expo) and yellow (Millennium) lines are complete.

There is a rail link to Whistler, at least there is track. In fact it goes all the way up to Fort St. John and beyond. I'm not sure if there is regular service to Whistler. You'd think there should be. I've actually rode on that track years ago in a series of about 4 motorized passenger cars (bud cars?). I'd have to look it up.

Thankyou...i didnt notice that info on the map(what can i say im stupid!) But i though when Vancouver was givn the olympics it was said that a rail link would be built to connect Vancouver to Whistler. did i imagine this or is this true? I thought maybe this could be canada's first high speed rail connection...that would be awsome!

crazyjoeda

December 2nd, 2005, 12:50 AM

Did i imagine this or is this true? I thought maybe this could be canada's first high speed rail connection...that would be awsome!

Unfortunately your probably imagined it. I have heard nothing about it a highspeed rail line to Whistler from Vancouver. The plans for the Olympics is to upgrade the Sea to Sky highway (already in progress) and use hydrogen powered buses. Ballard Power Systems is one of the largest fuel cell developers in the world and is based in the Lower Mainland.

A highspeed rail line from downtown Vancouver to Whistler would be sweet though. They could tunnel under the inlet and connect it up with the rail right of way on the North Shore and use the rail line already in place below the highway. Imagin going from downtown to Whistler in an hour, you could have a train leave every hour. Im sure it would be the most popular way to Whistler, but I doubt this will happen any time soon.

rise_against

December 2nd, 2005, 01:33 AM

when i get rich one day i promise ill make it happen, you have my word ;)

Plumber73

December 2nd, 2005, 02:47 AM

I dunno. High speed rail on that curvy track? If you've been on it, you'd know that would be a challenge. The train would have to at least double it's speed to make it an hour trip. The technology is out there, but I could see a lot of people getting motion sick, so I don't think it should happen on the existing track. The curves would have to be lengthened, and that's a big deal. The improvments to the highway will diminish the need for a solid train service to Whistler for some time. The train service they have now sounds like a pain in the ass - most people will opt go by car or bus.

rise_against

December 2nd, 2005, 05:53 AM

^^ya but that kinda sux:(

yesheh

December 2nd, 2005, 06:29 AM

Unfortunately your probably imagined it. I have heard nothing about it a highspeed rail line to Whistler from Vancouver. The plans for the Olympics is to upgrade the Sea to Sky highway (already in progress) and use hydrogen powered buses. Ballard Power Systems is one of the largest fuel cell developers in the world and is based in the Lower Mainland.

A highspeed rail line from downtown Vancouver to Whistler would be sweet though. They could tunnel under the inlet and connect it up with the rail right of way on the North Shore and use the rail line already in place below the highway. Imagin going from downtown to Whistler in an hour, you could have a train leave every hour. Im sure it would be the most popular way to Whistler, but I doubt this will happen any time soon.

actually it was not imagined, it was talked about before the olympics went through, in a sea to sky #99 corridor report. There was also a report around the same time that looked at some other things such as building a freeway through the capilano or seymore watersheds, or indian arm instead of widening the existing highway. the links are on the gov't trans site (gov.bc.ca/trans). The conclusion of the report if i remember correctly was that for it to be real efficiant (vancouver to whistler in 1 hour) there would have to be about 3 billion dollars in tunnelling....

ailiton

December 2nd, 2005, 06:56 AM

If it takes an hour to go from Vancouver to Whistler, it's not a high speed railway.

addisonwesley

December 2nd, 2005, 06:56 AM

zivan56

December 2nd, 2005, 07:08 AM

The conclusion of the report if i remember correctly was that for it to be real efficiant (vancouver to whistler in 1 hour) there would have to be about 3 billion dollars in tunnelling....

Why did they not go for it? I know of countries in Eastern Europe who spend that amount on building tunnels just to speed up commercial/tourist transportation, so we could easily accomplish this. Having travelled through Austria quite a couple of times, especially though Karavanke tunnel ~8km and a few others between Villach and Salzberg, it is quite normal for large highways to be elevated on the side of a mountain for over 100km, followed by huge tunnels.

mr.x

December 2nd, 2005, 08:24 AM

^ does $3-5 billion not make you jump?

i remember this very well, and if actually built a new highway that could potentially pollute our watersheds in the north shore, i would have been against 2010.

a high-speed rail link to Whistler would've costed $2-3 billion.

expanding and improving the Sea-to-Sky will do. there's no need for another highway to Whistler, at least not for a very long time to come. and besides, the Sea-to-Sky is treacherous; it needs the improvement, which would cost much less than a new highway through a watershed.

zivan56

December 2nd, 2005, 10:01 AM

^ does $3-5 billion not make you jump?

Not for a large investment in our general transportation infrastructure. This will not only help get more tourists there faster, but will also help the economy of the areas around the highway.

i remember this very well, and if actually built a new highway that could potentially pollute our watersheds in the north shore, i would have been against 2010.

Well they could have found an alternative route that does go out of the way for a bit (as long as it does not cause a very large delay)

a high-speed rail link to Whistler would've costed $2-3 billion.

expanding and improving the Sea-to-Sky will do. there's no need for another highway to Whistler, at least not for a very long time to come. and besides, the Sea-to-Sky is treacherous; it needs the improvement, which would cost much less than a new highway through a watershed.

Might as well add more and get the full deal (instead of rail only). While there may not be a need today, there will be in the future. Back to my Austria example, there are tunnels which were built in the 70's with only 2 lanes both ways. While that may have been good then, now they are boring out a 2nd one right beside it (dont remember name offhand, its on that route). Watershed pollution can be avoided, so I dont see this as a issue at all.

Nouvellecosse

December 2nd, 2005, 04:32 PM

The British had a solution to this. Something about having the locomotive adjust itself automatically to prevent tipping. This allowed the trains to continue at high speeds with added safety. Or, as physics has taught me, you can bank the curve - at like 80 degrees or something (ahaha), just make sure you've got enough friction to hold the damn thing down.

I actually saw a TV special about that. The Brits wanted to upgrade to highspeed without having to shell out to redo their antiquated track system. But apparently even after a huge amount of expense they couldn't quite get the system to work properly, and it was scrapped. Of course that doesn't mean that we couldn't try and succeed. ;)

snoopy

December 2nd, 2005, 04:38 PM

so is this Canada Line train of a different type than the ordinary skytrain trains? If it is... why would Vancouver want to use 2 types of trains on their one system? Look at the TTC and what problem it is facing now because they used LRT where they should have used HRT in Scarborough...

if not... ignore me hahaha

officedweller

December 2nd, 2005, 11:25 PM

The new line will be run by a private operator (but within the Translink network) for 30 years. Interoperability, etc. would be of limited use until after that period.

*********

Back in the 70s or 80s VIA Rail also developed a tilting train - called the LRC for use on the Quebec - Windsor route. It didn't work well either and I think the tilting function was disabled.

http://www.magma.ca/~randy1/graphics/Via6917.jpg

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Light%2C+Rapid%2C+Comfortable&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1

Light, Rapid, Comfortable

LRC is a bilingual acronym for Light, Rapid, Comfortable or Léger, Rapide, et Confortable, the name of a series of lightweight diesel-powered passenger trains used in Canada in short- to medium-distance inter-city service. The LRC family includes both locomotives and passenger carriages designed to work together, though the two can be and now commonly are used separately.

The trains were intended to increase the speed of passenger train service over conventional non-high-speed railway tracks. They do this using active-tilt technology to reduce the forces acting on passengers when a train travels at higher speeds around a curve in the railway tracks, and thus increase passenger comfort without the need to build new, straighter tracks as is required for high-speed trains such as France's TGV and Germany's ICE. The LRC is the oldest tilting train still in service.

LRCs have reached speeds as high as 208 km/h on test runs, but signalling limitations generally restricted them to more conventional speeds in practical operation.

Developed initially by Montréal Locomotive Works and Alcan with the assistance of the Government of Canada and the Canadian Pacific Railway, they were commercialised in the 1980s after Bombardier acquired Montréal Locomotive Works.

LRC trains have been operated by the continent's two major present-day passenger railways, VIA Rail in Canada and Amtrak in the United States. Amtrak returned their leased trains after extensive testing and experimental service between Boston and New York, but VIA Rail put the trains into service, persisting through their initial teething pains and coming to depend on the LRC for the majority of VIA's intercity service in the Windsor-Québec corridor. The original LRC locomotives were gradually retired after ten to fifteen years of service, but the most of the carriages remain in service in 2005, though pulled by much newer locomotives.

Bombardier have since used updated versions of the LRC carriages in the Acela Express electric high-speed trains they developed for Amtrak in the late 1990s, and in the experimental JetTrain recently proposed for several corridors in Canada and the United States.

******************

In addition, Amtrak's Cascades trains in the Northwest use gravity tilting.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/cascades/talgo.cfm

What is pendular Talgo technology?
Talgo trains are different from typical passenger trains used in the U.S. and Canada. Talgo trains are articulated, which means they operate as a set: adjacent cars share axles and wheels and function as a single, complete unit. This increases stability and improves safety and the smoothness of the ride. In addition, a gravity-based tilt system reduces travel times while also assuring that passengers are comfortable and safe, even when traveling through curves at high speeds.

Nouvellecosse

December 3rd, 2005, 12:37 AM

^ Wow, that's incredible! I had no idea that VIA had ever done anything cool. I thought the only really cool things Canada did transportation wise were for other countries. :hahaha:

snoopy

December 3rd, 2005, 12:37 AM

Plumber73

December 3rd, 2005, 03:20 AM

If it takes an hour to go from Vancouver to Whistler, it's not a high speed railway.True. I think you have to go at least 200km/h to be considered high speed. If that's the case, then high speed rail is impossible on the route up to Whistler.

The idea of creating an expensive new rail service up to Whistler is pretty silly in my opinion. There is simply very little demand that I can see. Whistler is not that big.

ssiguy2

December 3rd, 2005, 08:21 PM

What a waste of money. Build a hi-speed for a few thousand rich people on their way to Whistler. Use that money for rapid transit for the average person and get 10s of thousands passengers.

j4893k

December 3rd, 2005, 09:08 PM

What a waste of money. Build a hi-speed for a few thousand rich people on their way to Whistler. Use that money for rapid transit for the average person and get 10s of thousands passengers.
I don't think it's a waste of money... Whistler brings in 1Billion per year for BC's economy.

mr.x

December 3rd, 2005, 10:53 PM

a high spped rail line would be nice but it's not really needed and we have bigger priorities.

Plumber73

December 4th, 2005, 01:04 AM

officedweller

December 4th, 2005, 02:34 AM

^^ thanks for the info officedweller. Although it doesn't seem quite proper for Translink to hand down power to a private firm for the operation of this line. Will future lines also be operated this way? (and will future lines use the original skytrain train or the canada line trains?)

It's called a PPP or public-private partnership. A lot of transit lines around the world now use that type of financing to get the project going. After the 30 year contract, the line is handed over to Translink. Of the $1.9B cost of the line, $720M is coming from the "private" side. Translink still retains some control - i.e. over fares, bus connections, etc. (not sure about frequency) That's why Translink retains liability for ridership shortfalls.

Plumber, that's pretty much what Amtrak Cascades is - a faster train - not Acela high speed, but still better than conventional rail.

worldwide

December 5th, 2005, 11:13 AM

jaye the only, stop being a dick. if your definition of heavy rail is that the cars weigh more, then dont even come around here. go back to urban canada. were all stoked about this rail line and it makes no difference if its called a subway or not, it is still positive for the city. you seem to think that vancouver is inferior to toronto, so you try and prove your apparent superiority with blatant stupidity in the form of questions. arent you 14, have you ever taken the ttc without holding your moms hand? this isnt the first time ive attempted to bitch you out, learn from your mistakes

sukh

December 5th, 2005, 11:53 AM

Not to dwell on the topic, but when I think of high speed rail I imagine it being used between one huge population center to another huge population center. You know, like they have in Europe and Asia. Vancouver is not huge, and Whistler is really not huge. At the most, we'll get a slightly faster train. :)

Its just Whistler is a village, like you said i dont know if it would be a good idea to waste money on that. Vancouver being a different story though.

zivan56

December 11th, 2005, 12:23 AM

Here are a couple of pics I took of the construction going on between King Edward and up; not a pretty site ;)

King Edward station entrance site
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2.jpg

Lanes closed untill 2007ish:
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/6.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/7.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/9.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/10.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/11.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/13.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/14.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/15.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/16.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/17.jpg
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/18.jpg
The real digging/drilling should start around here:
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/20.jpg

They seem to have put manure over the roadbed where it is dug up, no clue why though :dunno:

mr.x

December 11th, 2005, 02:25 AM

^ thanks for the pics

Plumber73

December 11th, 2005, 03:02 AM

zivan56

December 11th, 2005, 07:04 AM

"The real digging/drilling should start around here" <<< and blasting too apparently. You should also go to where the 2nd Ave station will be... Looks like they are making preparations for that coring machine. Should be interesting to see what it will look like, though I have an idea.

I wouldnt want to live around that area when it starts.

I havent been around the 2nd Ave station location for a long time, maybe it will be a project for next weekend...

officedweller

December 11th, 2005, 11:00 PM

Thanks for the pics!

zivan56

December 19th, 2005, 02:12 AM

Here is a picture of the future false creek station (or it might be a temp casing for the TBM machine):
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/rav2ndav.jpg
They sure took a nice chunk out of Cambie Bridge
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/rav2ndav2.jpg

Bertez

December 19th, 2005, 02:19 AM

Great pics and Great news:D:D

mr.x

December 19th, 2005, 02:33 AM

^ that's the tunnel boring hole.

officedweller

December 21st, 2005, 02:36 AM

Thanks!
The part of the ramp that was removed was the part on an earthen berm (i.e. on soil).

zivan56

January 16th, 2006, 01:32 AM

New pictures:

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2/1.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2/2.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2/3.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2/4.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/2/5.jpg

The trench is mostly on the south end of QE park (most of it in last pic)

mr.x

January 16th, 2006, 03:39 AM

it's coming along quickly.

zivan56

January 31st, 2006, 09:54 AM

October - December 2005 progress report (http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/uploads/NewsReleases/News51.pdf)

zivan56

February 6th, 2006, 05:26 AM

All of the work is still on northwest corner of QE Park. The sidewalk on the east side of cambie has now been removed as well (all along QE park)

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3/1.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3/2.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3/3.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3/4.jpg

Any ideas what this is?
http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/3/5.jpg

j4893k

February 6th, 2006, 09:46 AM

Wow thats a deep hole.

Plumber73

February 6th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the pics zivan!

I'd find it a bit unnerving to be in a trench like that...

mr.x

February 7th, 2006, 01:46 AM

don't forget that the section in these pictures is a doubledecked tunnel.

rt_0891

February 7th, 2006, 02:23 AM

Looks like the Cut-and-Cover tunnels on Toronto's Sheppard Line.

JBinCalgary

February 7th, 2006, 06:03 AM

good news for van

West@East_Coast

February 7th, 2006, 08:40 AM

The city so needed this!

officedweller

February 7th, 2006, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the pics!

The red metal structure could be to form the roof of the tunnel. It kind of looks like the forms you see on condos for forming the slab (floors). It looks about the right height (i.e. a bit taller than a train car).

This particular section will actually have a transition from side-by-side (at the future 33rd Ave Station) to stacked double decker (at the King Edward Station). So in the first couple of shots (looking north?) it will definitely be stacked. Around the curve, is probably where it transitions.

sukh

February 7th, 2006, 12:43 PM

How is the line going to end up in downtown? Another bridge over False creek or what.

West@East_Coast

February 7th, 2006, 08:03 PM

Tunnel no bridge!

rise_against

February 7th, 2006, 11:16 PM

Cool good for Vancouver!

dchengg

February 8th, 2006, 04:21 AM

why do we have a 33rd avenue station when we dont have a bus line on 33rd ave...
** i live on 33rd avenue and theres no buses >.< i have to walk out to bigger streets to catch a bus.

j4893k

February 8th, 2006, 05:02 AM

There probably will be bus service when the line in completed... DUH:)

deej

February 9th, 2006, 06:25 AM

^^
Wouldn't 33rd Avenue be for QE Park? Also walking distance to a couple of major employment centers (Shaughnessy Hospital?)?

Plumber73

February 9th, 2006, 06:51 AM

The few times I've visited QE Park, I didn't get the impression it was bustling, so a station devoted to it alone doesn't make sense. Even with those new developments, the 33rd Ave station still doesn't seem like it would get a lot of rider usage. I guess it's another one of those 'build it and they will come' stations.

officedweller

February 10th, 2006, 01:57 AM

33rd Ave is a future station - it'll just be a roughed in station box when the line opens. It will be completed when the 33rd Ave. bus route is implemented - likely only when sufficient demand from redevelopment of nearby hospital lands (St. Vincent) occurs. I think the RCMP headquarters (which is moving to Surrey) is also around there too.

Similarly with the 57th Ave. station - it's a future station.

officedweller

February 10th, 2006, 03:53 AM

Public Consultation Posterboards have been added to the website for King Edward, 41st Ave and 49th Ave.. Make sure to click on the IntransitBC "1", "2" and "3":

http://www.canadaline.ca/pubConsCurrent.asp

Things of note:

41st Ave and 49th Ave both still have the "underpass" method of accessing the far side platform. Handicapped people will have to use 3 elevators to get to the far side platform. At least at 41st there's the possibility of a new entrance on the east side of Cambie in the future. The same cannot be said for 49th Ave.

At King Edward, the station house will not take up the entire site and the rest will be redeveloped with mixed use.

The City of Vancouver transit strategy boards show the future Millennium Line and the Arbutus streetcar.

mr.x

February 10th, 2006, 04:37 AM

^ the transit strategy shows the M-Line already reaching Granville, and from Granville to UBC as "Future M-Line Extension." Are there serious behind the stage plans to expand the line right now?

officedweller

February 10th, 2006, 05:18 AM

I think that Translink's current 3 year / 5 year plan calls for "study" of the M-line extension to Granville.

Back when the extension was part of Phae 2 of the M-Line, the City of Vancouver "approved" of the extension of the Skytrain to Granville (or Arbutus) (as opposed to LRT or full rapid bus).

Rhino

March 23rd, 2006, 10:00 PM

Has anyone seen these yet , I just saw them a little while ago and got this pic then thought, " wow these look great I hope all the OLD cars get removed and replaced with these " .
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/rhino8484/march2006101.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/rhino8484/march2006102.jpg

mr.x

March 24th, 2006, 01:34 AM

^ WOW!

Rhino

March 24th, 2006, 03:45 AM

yeah , lol thats what I though . they look very future like dont they .

j4893k

March 24th, 2006, 04:38 AM

They look awesome... To bad sooner or later they'll have spray paint and dirt all over them.

zivan56

March 24th, 2006, 09:53 AM

How does this relate to the Canada Line? :dunno:

Rhino

March 24th, 2006, 09:55 AM

Rail , Thats all , nothing to do with the CANADA LINE but hey they look great !

alexbez

March 24th, 2006, 09:10 PM

How will the Canada Line manoeuver around the arthur-lang interchange at YVR?

mr.x

March 24th, 2006, 09:31 PM

How will the Canada Line manoeuver around the arthur-lang interchange at YVR?

It's being built over the Arthur Lang overchange. If you go on the overchange today, you can see that they are well into construction on building the second arm Canada Line bridge.....they have drilled pilings into the river and supports on the other side. They have also covered the area of where the track will go with dirt.

thryve

March 25th, 2006, 06:54 PM

The name 'Canada Line' is very cheesy and confusing, in my opinion. But it's transit. which is a good thing!

-thryve

officedweller

March 26th, 2006, 12:14 AM

How will the Canada Line manoeuver around the arthur-lang interchange at YVR?

From the Middle Arm Bridge the guideway will fly-over the south Arthur Lang approach and then pass north around the interchange with Russ Baker Way.

zivan56

March 26th, 2006, 01:17 AM

New pics ;)

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/4/1.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/4/2.jpg

http://www.iwdstudio.com/slike/rav/4/3.jpg

alexbez

March 26th, 2006, 03:13 AM

^^^ Wow, really coming along quickly/nicely... wouldnt know. Cant wait to get back!
Has anyone seen the renderings for Character Zone 4: Downtown Core North of Richmond? Are they really going to re-develope Lansdowne Mall? Would be nice!!!!

j4893k

March 26th, 2006, 04:25 AM

Lansdowne Mall has got to be one of the ugliest buildings in Richmond. It looks like they are starting to do renos on it though... The new parts look alright but combined with the yellow metal walls (with a splash of brown metal here and there) and the stucco in some areas it looks like a disaster. Plus with all the big box stores doing their own thing design wise (Home Outfitters, Best Buy - with those massive, nasty blue triangles, Future Shop, Winners etc etc) it looks even worse. I'm not even going to mention the inside.

If I had my way, I'd tear it down and build an awesome, modern, glassy mall with condos and a hotel... Too bad the people who own that 'thing' think they can fix it. :(

mr.x

March 26th, 2006, 06:06 AM

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1851/yvrrich14ob.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8391/yvrrich41op.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/882/yvrrich22id.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9287/yvrrich59lm.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2227/yvrrich38fo.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3199/yvrrich68kg.jpg

samsonyuen

March 26th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Why not build Capstan Station now? Is there a development plan for the area?

mr.x

March 26th, 2006, 10:39 AM

^ there's no money. we're on a very tight budget.

superman987

March 26th, 2006, 04:36 PM

I dont know if this has been asked but how much is it going to cost? And where is the funding coming from?

samsonyuen

March 26th, 2006, 06:48 PM

^^But what's there at the moment?

mr.x

March 26th, 2006, 09:00 PM

Financing the Project
The Governments of Canada and British Columbia, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), the City of Vancouver and the Vancouver International Airport Authority are each contributing to the Canada Line. In addition, InTransitBC (private sector) will design, build, operate, maintain and partially finance the Line. The private sector will operate and maintain the line for 35 years.

Government of Canada: $450 million
Province of British Columbia: $435 million
Vancouver International Airport: $245 million
Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority: $321 million
City of Vancouver: $27 million
InTransitBC: $572 million
TOTAL: $2050 MILLION (2003$CAN)

InTransitBC, the private sector, is responsible for all shortfalls that may be incurred during the construction process.

alexbez

March 27th, 2006, 12:37 PM

Samsonyuen "But what's there at the moment?"

I think their is a Canadian Tire nearby, but other than that, their really isnt all that much. Is their any re-develpoment planned for the Capston station area?

officedweller

March 28th, 2006, 11:45 PM

There are two projects planned for the lands between No. 3 Rd and Garden City Way north of Capstan.

This is one of them (at Garden City and Capstan I think) (note the misidentification as "Guildford Offices, Surrey, BC" and "Patterson Rd., Vancouver, BC"):

http://www.gbl-arch.com/database/img_43d572028d9c6.jpg?1138061826

http://www.gbl-arch.com/database/img_43d6bd4d6b6d7.jpg?1138146637

http://www.gbl-arch.com/database/img_43d6bbf76dde0.jpg?1138146295

bils

March 29th, 2006, 03:47 PM

where did you get those drawings from, officedweller? seems kinda funny it would all mislabelled like that!

i always thought the area around capstan wasn't zoned for high density housing due to airport noise?

officedweller

March 29th, 2006, 08:55 PM

They're from the architect's website! Gomberoff Bell Lyon

I think that one of the ways that they address aircraft noise is to have air conditioning in the suites, so residents don't have to open their windows in the summer. I've noticed a few developments in Richmond with air conditioning

alexbez

March 29th, 2006, 11:22 PM

With all this development going on in the lower mainland, what will happen after 2010?
From winter olympic venue costruction to the new rapid transit lines, the gateway freeway/bridge expansions to plane old normal housing, commercial and industriel development! Where will all the labourers go? Or do? In 2011 they'r wont be nearly as much to build!
Or will the olympics bring new growth, sufficient enough to employ all the construction workers?

I dunno maybe I missed somethings?

bils

March 30th, 2006, 12:42 AM

^ i think the olympics will bring a lot of further growth, don't you think? i mean people from all over will be seeing what we have here. for sure there's a few large projects that have been brought on by the olympics, but i don't think you could say that all of what we're seeing now is due to 2010.

the question i have, seeing all these 'plans' and 'visions' is how long they would actually take to come into fruition. i've been a lifelong resident of richmond and i've seen first hand how fast our city has changed - but there must be a plateau stage where the city just doesn't have enough to continue building at this pace.

thoughts?

who's interested in starting a richmond thread btw? i mean with the canada line, oval and 25+ towers i think there's enough there?

j4893k

March 30th, 2006, 03:24 AM

Na, I like it all in one place... Also keeps the thread busy and interesting.

zivan56

March 30th, 2006, 09:49 AM

In 2011 they'r wont be nearly as much to build!
Or will the olympics bring new growth, sufficient enough to employ all the construction workers?

That depends on the housing market (which is currently very strong, and if it continues). There is currently a shortage of workers, as new buildings are popping up everywhere; a very large percentage of them have nothing to do with the olympics...

bs_lover_boy

March 30th, 2006, 01:58 PM

Why not build Capstan Station now? Is there a development plan for the area?

I went to the OPEN HOUSE in richmond that other day and they kept that board in secret...(it was behind the Cambie Station Board) The plan will be 10 mid rises to the east of the station... extension of Hazelbridge Way and demolition of that blue-ish grey coloured retail place with all the car maintenance stores!!!

alexbez

March 30th, 2006, 04:52 PM

Well, some one let me know if im wrong, but isnt the GVRD growing at 1.2% a year? Now I just failed a math test today, so im not in the mood, but if anyone else carres to do the math! Are we setting our selves up for an (eventual) oversupply? How many people (approximatly) can be housed in a mid-sized tower? Ofcourse anything can happen. The olympics could start a new influx.

samsonyuen

March 30th, 2006, 09:14 PM

Hopefully the development of the area will open up the chances of LRT stopping there.

mr.x

April 4th, 2006, 02:42 AM

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1829/rava19dk.jpg
http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/9765/rava26zb.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7827/rava36no.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8682/rava40is.jpg
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/1750/rava56oy.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8665/rava61in.jpg

officedweller

April 4th, 2006, 11:32 PM

I think this is new: an image gallery on the Canada Line website:

http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp

Cut & cover trench on Cambie:
http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/123.JPG
http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/105.jpg

Hole for the Tunnel Boring Machine & False Creek South Station:
http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/119.jpg

Also, just noticed that the Concession Agreement between CLCo, Translink and IntransitBC has been posted (subject to excission of commercially sensitive info).

Interestingly, no rights are granted by Translink to IntransitBC to call the system "SkyTrain" and Section 8.1 indicates that the name will just be "Canada Line".

Ultimate Capacity (15,000pphd) is in Schedule 3, Section 2.5. Intransit BC determine ulitmate train length and determines platform lengths, provided that ultimate train length can be accommodated in future. Section 2.7.3 requires the ability to add future facilities for direct YVR-Richmond service.

Schedule 3, Section 14.2 - track gauge is 1435mm. Skytrain is "Standard Gauge", which, in railway terminology, means a distance between the rails of 4 feet, 8 ½ inches or 1.435 metres. So Canada Line vehicles and Skytrain vehicles have the same rail gauge.

Schedule 3, Section 14.16 - seating is theatre style, 2+2 transverse.

Headways are in Schedule 4, Appendix A.

http://www.canadaline.ca/pubLibDocs.asp?ID=4

Nanaimo Bars

April 11th, 2006, 10:40 AM

Thanks Officedweller always interesting always articulate always accurate! Some of the best posts of Vancouver always come from you! Thanks for your info!

officedweller

April 11th, 2006, 11:17 PM

Thanks! That's 'cause I grew up in Nanaimo. (Really)

Nanaimo Bars

April 13th, 2006, 10:05 AM

It is obvious from this site Nanaimo has the most intelligent people in Canada! :)

Haber

April 14th, 2006, 02:05 AM

It's all because of the bathtubs isn't it?

Nanaimo Bars

April 16th, 2006, 09:13 AM

If you are suggesting we smell good also yes it is true! :)

Haber

April 16th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Nanaimo is the bathtub capital of the world

Rhino

April 16th, 2006, 09:44 PM

what are you talking about ?

officedweller

April 20th, 2006, 01:24 AM

Nanaimo hosts a "Bathtub Race" each summer.

+++++++++++++++

Display boards for both the Portal/Marine Drive Station and the King Edward, 41st and 49th Stations are up:

http://www.canadaline.ca/pubConsCurrent.asp

Observations:
The King Edward, 41st and 49th Stations are matching and will have orange tile in them - or so the renderings show.
The platforms do NOT appear to be level - there appears to be a slight grade to them correpsonding to the hill that the station is on.
All of the stations have the 10 metre platform future expansion space.

mr.x

April 20th, 2006, 02:01 AM

^ it's actually quite awesome.

mr.x

April 20th, 2006, 02:16 AM

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7682/cline13xu.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9040/cline23db.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/50/cline35sm.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/751/cline48mt.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1820/cline57qk.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3978/cline64ok.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2799/cline72cn.jpg

Overground

April 20th, 2006, 02:45 AM

Wow that looks great, Thanks X!

About the platforms. With the 10 metre platform future expansion space included what would be the length of the platforms or how many cars could fit on it?

mr.x

April 20th, 2006, 10:49 AM

^ three cars from what other forumers have told me. the two Rotem 2009 completion A and B head cars plus a future middle C car that's considerably smaller than the A and B car.....possible a 10 metre middle C car, of course with a connection to the A and B cars.

Overground

April 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM

ryanr

April 20th, 2006, 09:12 PM

Wow...thanks for that mr x.:)

sorry for my ignorance, but why are the trains at two seperate levels @ King Edward?

officedweller

April 20th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Yeah, I think you just answered your question.
The Concession Agreement only requires the Canada Line to have an ultimate build-out capacity of 15,000 pphd (I think Skytrain's is 20,000 pphd). That explains the shorter platforms, even after expansion.
InTransitBC was given the discretion to build whatever would meet current ridership estimates, provided that the system could be expanded to meet ultimate capacity.

On opening day, the platforms will be 40 metres long - with the 10 metre expansions, they'll be just 50 metres long.

Skytrain platforms are 80 metres long, and current operations use trains as long as 4 car MKII trains which are almost 70 metres long (2 x 34.7 metres per two-car MKII pair).

Expect crowded trains.

+++++++++++

The tunnel is stacked on that stretch of Cambie to use a smaller footprint.
It was going to be stacked all the way down to 63rd Ave., but the plans were changed further south to side-by-side tunnels.

mr.x

April 21st, 2006, 07:27 AM

^ The trains have huge capacity though. About 340 per train. Compare that to the B-Line, which has a capacity of just a little over 1/3rd of that.

mr.x

April 21st, 2006, 09:07 AM

Thanks for the info. I checked out the schematics and now understand the length.
With increased ridership over the years and an increase with frequency in trains, aren't these platforms still a bit too short just in case? I was thinking it would be better to be safer than sorry later. Or are they thinking that purchasing and running more trains in the future would be cheaper than extended platforms? Lol...I probably just answered my question.

The trains are actually quite cheap, well compared to Bombardier's Mark II. Rotem's Canada Line trains cost $4 million each (2 car trains).

InTransitBC's order of 40 automated light rail cars will cost $80 million.

dchengg

April 23rd, 2006, 09:12 AM

wont having the platforms short make it look crowded?and how much passenger capacity can the station platforms hold? because its can get a bit crowded at specific stations...

zivan56

April 23rd, 2006, 09:27 AM

sorry for my ignorance, but why are the trains at two seperate levels @ King Edward?

Because the RAV line tunnel will be stacked down cambie street before King Edward. Since the station is before King Edward, there is not enough space to transition to side-by-side tunnels.

Overground

April 24th, 2006, 10:15 AM

Thanks for the info chaps.

officedweller

May 4th, 2006, 11:59 PM

New quarterly report available:

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News128.pdf

Items of Note:

Changes that seem to be new:
- CLCO deleted the change for the provision of an additional train.
- CLCO wants the Bridgeport park and ride deleted from InTransitBC's scope of work and taken over by Great Canadian Casinos.
- InTransitBC got a deletion of a diamond crossing west of Bridgeport Station.

The stormwater sewer under Cambie Street from King Edward Ave. to 10th Ave. will be relocated to under Ash Street.

The cost of having the Broadway-City Hall Station entrance at Broadway & Cambie (preferred option, as shown in the public consultation boards) is too high and was rejected by CLCO and Translink - so the entrance will be at 10th Ave. (the base case scenario).

mr.x

May 5th, 2006, 03:21 AM

^ wth!

Plumber73

May 5th, 2006, 03:42 AM

The cost of having the Broadway-City Hall Station entrance at Broadway & Cambie (preferred option, as shown in the public consultation boards) is too high and was rejected by CLCO and Translink - so the entrance will be at 10th Ave. (the base case scenario).That's wierd. I wonder how much higher and why. I think the cost for the user is higher not having the entrance on the transit corridor (Broadway).

officedweller

May 5th, 2006, 04:01 AM

I thought it was weird too, but ultimately, connections to the Broadway buses will be replaced with connections to the M-Line (which will be under 10th Ave.)

Plumber73

May 5th, 2006, 07:49 AM

That makes sense. So it looks like that M-Line expansion is pretty much a done deal. It's just a question of when.

officedweller

May 5th, 2006, 09:46 PM

Hopefully the change won't impact the only double height volume on the line.
If they keep the same station layout (with the mezzanine) escalators could just come down from 10th Ave and end up on the mezzanine.

http://www.canadaline.ca/documents/ITBC01.pdf

The design with the passage from Broadway made of ramps was basically the prototype for the proposed M-Line stations under 10th Ave. (at least where 10th Ave. is uphill from Broadway (i.e. @ Cambie and Oak)) - so hopefully it won't signal property costs being too high for that station configuration when the M-Line is built (otherwise M-Line stations could end up being on main streets a block off Broadway).

spongeg

May 7th, 2006, 01:07 AM

:) Nanaimo hosts a "Bathtub Race" each summer.

+++++++++++++++

Display boards for both the Portal/Marine Drive Station and the King Edward, 41st and 49th Stations are up:

http://www.canadaline.ca/pubConsCurrent.asp

Observations:
The King Edward, 41st and 49th Stations are matching and will have orange tile in them - or so the renderings show.
The platforms do NOT appear to be level - there appears to be a slight grade to them correpsonding to the hill that the station is on.
All of the stations have the 10 metre platform future expansion space.

thanks for that link - me and my friend were trying to figure out how the Robson station was going to be set up - we saw lots of marks all over that area last night - I guessed that it would be like stairs down without a "station" until you get underground - which seems to be the case

can't wait till 2009

mr.x

May 8th, 2006, 08:40 AM

Broadway/City Hall Station

Clear, simple forms, are carefully detailed in a common composite structural system. Repetitive elements are designed to maximize the benefits of each material while minimizing construction costs and enhancing the experience of daily travelers.

Concrete, metal and wood reflect upon the robust heritage of Vancouver and British Columbia and allude to the natural progression from the mass of the earth to the tracery of the forest canopy above.

On a gentle ramp, travelers descend from West Broadway to
the concourse level of the station. Upon exit, they can enjoy
a view of the downtown and North Shore mountains.
Generous windows maximize visual accessibility and light,
while all information and ticket devices can be easily located
along the sky lit east wall.

Within the large station volume, the concourse provides
retail opportunity as well as a commanding view of arriving
trains and both platforms below . At grade, bicycle lockers
are provided on the south end of the station where possible
landscaping connects to the garden of Vancouver City Hall
and the proposed boulevard trees along Cambie Street.
The precise location of the station platform is to be finalized.

The roof plays off the slope of Cambie Street, opening to the view of the downtown and North Shore. It tilts up southward to allow access to natural light, while canting up to Cambie as a welcoming gesture to pedestrians.

The experience of entry is enhanced by a skylight that bathes the concrete wall behind the ticket machines. Additional light provided by abundant windows helps ease the transition between the platforms below and the sidewalks above.

In response to urban design panel input, aesthetic commonality with the False Creek South station has been strengthened as well as with other stations along the Cambie corridor.

An upward slope at the south end of the roof increases the amount of natural light penetrating into the concourse ticketing area. The head house design helps establish a civic presence and
accommodates access opportunities to the adjacent future
development site to the east.

Grade Level
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/123/ravcambienorth18ja.jpg

Concourse Level
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4222/ravcambienorth21sz.jpg

Platform Level
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5691/ravcambienorth37ml.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/677/ravcambienorth43gq.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1900/ravcambienorth55hc.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1900/ravcambienorth55hc.jpg

mr.x

May 8th, 2006, 08:41 AM

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3802/ravdowntown13gn.jpg

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/4458/ravdowntown23sr.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8389/ravdowntown37oi.jpg

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/4171/ravdowntown46rr.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2791/ravdowntown55hs.jpg

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/8326/ravdowntown66hg.jpg

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/1986/ravdowntown79af.jpg

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/254/ravdowntown84ns.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2807/ravdowntown98dc.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5620/ravdowntown108us.jpg

THESE SLIDES ARE CONTINUED......

mr.x

May 8th, 2006, 08:42 AM

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/8160/ravdowntown148uf.jpg

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/2787/ravdowntown158su.jpg

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/4232/ravdowntown165zm.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6167/ravdowntown170ne.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7459/ravdowntown187vj.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7382/ravdowntown199ym.jpg

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/3861/ravdowntown208en.jpg

slides continued.....

mr.x

May 8th, 2006, 08:42 AM

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/6148/ravdowntown215ts.jpg

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/4414/ravdowntown222fm.jpg

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/1731/ravdowntown231mo.jpg

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/5854/ravdowntown240ho.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1471/ravdowntown254ma.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9504/ravdowntown265md.jpg

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/7747/ravdowntown274ht.jpg

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/6273/ravdowntown289ot.jpg

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/8343/ravdowntown291zf.jpg

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/8456/ravdowntown301dk.jpg

mr.x

May 8th, 2006, 08:44 AM

False Creek South Station

Form and structure refer to the local legacy of sawmills
and shipbuilding, while the long glass façade maximizes
visual access. The simple building form moderates
between the scales of the Cambie Bridge and future
development.

Glazed openings in the north wall provide visual links to
the neighbourhoods of False Creek.
An overlook from entry level, combined with a skylight
provide direct light into the concourse level as well as
down the escalator, deep into the station. This enhances
the transition from platform to grade and back. As the
day progresses, the light changes, illuminating the
station in a myriad of ways.

Experience is through the senses: visual poetics of
natural light, contrasting textures and acoustic
properties of the building’s materials.

Grade Level
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2702/ravcambienorth76xa.jpg

Concourse Level
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1230/ravcambienorth80vl.jpg

Platform Level
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1552/ravcambienorth98rb.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7133/ravcambienorth108ic.jpg

http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/5080/ravcambienorth118xg.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1081/ravcambienorth125fy.jpg

sukh

May 8th, 2006, 09:19 AM

^ Your doing a good job of providing us with information.

zivan56

May 8th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Are they planning to tear down that brick building on the southeast corner of Cambie and Broadway?

DrT

May 8th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Thanks Mr.X!
Is the Pacific Centre entrance option at Robson station planned or just an idea being presented? Would it cost the public more money or built with the moneys already allocated?
I think it is a terrific idea.

officedweller

May 8th, 2006, 10:43 PM

Cadillac Fairview owes the City an amenity because it is filling in the atrium above the old food court for the new Holt Renfrew. The City thinks a grand Canada Line entrance would be a good replacement amenity. It just boils down to InTransitBC and Cadillac Fairview agreeing on costs - the in-street entrance options (both Robson (Cadillac Fairview owns Pacific Centre) and Waterfront (Gov't of Canada owns Sinclair Centre)) are presented in case negotiations fail.

officedweller

May 9th, 2006, 11:34 PM

Posted by nname over at SSP:

Translink news release with the Canada Line Station names, including this zinger for Robson Station -->> "Vancouver City Centre Station"

The only other one that is odd is Olympic Village. It's not really that close to the Olympic Village and I doubt the buildings/condos there will continue to be called that after the games. I also thought that teh station would be closed during the Games? (but that could have been when the village was closer to the bridge).

Here's the full text of the News Release.

May 09, 2006
Canada Line station names selected

TransLink has merged input from Vancouver and Richmond with technical conventions for naming rapid transit stations to determine the names for the 16 Canada Line stations scheduled to open in November 2009.

Station names are chosen primarily to provide passengers with wayfinding information they need for connecting transit services, which was the case when SkyTrain stations on the Expo and Millennium Line were named. Over time, however, some communities or key destinations were included in station names to enhance information for transit customers and to establish the stations as focal points in the community. For example, the Expo Line's Main Street station became "Main Street / Science World," the Joyce Station was renamed "Joyce / Collingwood" and Stadium was transformed to "Stadium / Chinatown."

The same approach will be evident in the names chosen for Canada Line stations.

Waterfront Station: maintaining the name of Vancouver's major transit hub, served by SeaBus, West Coast Express, the Canada Line, Expo and Millennium Lines, and Coast Mountain Bus services.

Vancouver City Centre: the Canada Line station between Robson Street and West Georgia Street.

Yaletown - Roundhouse: adds reference to the Roundhouse Community Centre, an important piece of Vancouver's transportation history and a neighbourhood focal point, to the original name.

Olympic Village: serving the False Creek South area at 2nd Avenue and Cambie, and near the site of the Athlete's Village for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Use of 'Olympic Village' as a station name is subject to an acceptable license agreement being concluded between the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games and Translink and the approval of such license agreement by the International Olympic Committee.

Broadway - City Hall: the intersection with a major east/west corridor and 99B bus route; also reflecting the proximity to Vancouver City Hall.

King Edward: the intersection with King Edward Avenue; again, an important east/west transit route.

Oakridge - 41st Avenue: identifies the neighbourhood, the shopping centre and an important cross street on the transit system.

Langara - 49th Avenue: combines the name of the community and the college with an important transit route.

Marine Drive: notes the significant intersection with Marine Drive and the bus loop proposed for this station.

Bridgeport: the station that will be the key transit connection and park and ride in Richmond for the Canada Line service from Richmond to Vancouver, Canada Line service to Vancouver International Airport, and highway coach services from Ladner, Delta, South Surrey and White Rock.

Aberdeen: reflective of the neighbourhood; the intersection is Cambie, but reference to that street could result in confusion with Cambie Street in Vancouver."

Lansdowne: references the location of the station at Lansdowne, which will be an important east/west corridor in Richmond

Richmond - Brighouse: incorporates an important historic name in Richmond to the station at the city's centre.

On Sea Island, the Vancouver International Airport Authority will name its three Canada Line stations Templeton, Sea Island Centre and YVR - Airport. The naming of future stations at 33rd Avenue and 57th Avenue in Vancouver as well as a fourth station on Sea Island has been deferred until construction on them proceeds.

The Canada Line rapid transit system will run fully separated from traffic between Waterfront Centre in Vancouver to the heart of Richmond and to Vancouver International Airport. The line will provide the equivalent of 10 road lanes of capacity to move people on the region's busiest north/south corridor and will be an important new link in TransLink's regional transportation network.

The project is a funding partnership of the Governments of Canada and British Columbia, TransLink, Vancouver International Airport Authority and InTransit BC, the consortium that will design, build, operate, maintain and partially finance the line. Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc., a subsidiary of TransLink, manages the Project. For complete details on the project, visit www.canadaline.ca

mr.x

May 18th, 2006, 05:10 AM

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6821/10zu2.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9549/25yl.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/238/39fx.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/8779/46xw.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3332/54oo.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9367/60zd.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5175/75wd.jpg

mr.x

May 18th, 2006, 06:12 AM

CANADA LINE TRAIN INFORMATION

Rotem's XG EMU Intercity Type (K-Series) offers passenger convenience. Each component of XG EMU reduces the "total life cycle cost" of the vehicle by reducing the maintenance costs.

Supplier: Rotem (Hyundai Motor Group)
Model: XG EMU Intercity Type (K-Series)
Maximum Opereating Speed: 80 km/h
Maximum Design Speed: 110 km/h
Driver: Automation/Driverless
Acceleration: 1.3 m/s(2)
Jerk Limit: 0.8 m/s(3)
Service: 0.8 ~ 1.36 m/sec(2)
Emergency: 1.35 m/sec(2)
Noise level: 70 dB(A) at 80 km/h (Ground)
Line Voltage: 800 V DC

Train Formation: [A+A] (2 vehicles per train)
End to End Journey Time: 25/26 minutes
Pasasenger Capacity: 334 per train
Seating Configuration: Side-by-side transverse, flip-up seats at wheelchair and bicycle positions
Bicycle Accommodation: 2 per train
Wheelchair Accommodation: 4 per train
Width: 3 metres
Height: 3.6 metres
Length: 41 metres per train
Weight: 76 tonnes empty
Car Body Material: Stainless Steel 301L
Interior Material: Sandwich Material with NOMEX (Honeycomb)

Propulsion & Electric Systems: TMS & VVVF Control (IGBT), AC Traction Motor, SIV: VVVF Control, IGBT
Bogie: Bolsterless Type, Rubber & Air Spring Suspension
Brake System: Regenerative + Dynamic + Friction Brake, Compressor: AC Motor Driven, Friction Brake : Wheel Mounted Disc Brake
Air Conditionning Equipment: R134a, Roof Mounted Package type, 42 kW/car
Gangway: Wide Open Gangway (high noise transmission loss)
Passenger Door: Electric Sliding Plug-in Type

Security Features: Passenger Silent Alarm, Emergency passenger-operated intercom panels, Modern vandal-resistant finishes
Information System: EIDS (Electronic Information Display System), Electronic “Destination” signs on the outside of each vehicle ("YVR-AIRPORT", "WATERFRONT", "RICHMOND"), Public Address System announcing next stations

Order Quantity: 20 trains; 40 vehicles
Order Cost: CAN$1.5 million per vehicle; CAN$60 million contract
Order Delivery: 2009

Currently In Opereration XG EMU's: Hong Kong MTR, France, Italy

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4460/train8fq.jpg
http://canadaline.ca/images/banners/bannerFront.jpg

officedweller

May 18th, 2006, 10:31 PM

The trains look OK. The original Canada Line rendering was odd because the doors did not have tracks for them to open.

SO WHY THE #$@$ ARE THERE COLUMNS ON THE PLATFORMS OF ABERDEEN, LANSDOWNE AND BRIGHOUSE STATIONS???

ISN'T IT A BASIC TRANSIT DESIGN PRINCIPLE THAT PLATFORMS ARE COLUMN FREE SPACE? I WONDER HOW MANY COLUMNS WILL LINE UP WITH THE TRAIN DOORS?

THIS WILL SURE MAKE BUSBY LOOK BAD.....

officedweller

May 19th, 2006, 09:09 PM

New pics at the gallery:

http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/178.JPG http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/133.JPG

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/tn_132.jpg

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/160.jpg http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/Gallery/162.JPG

spongeg

May 23rd, 2006, 10:02 AM

so is the richmond section on street level?

officedweller

May 23rd, 2006, 10:09 AM

Elevated on the east side of No. 3 Rd.
The trains use 3rd rail - electrical pick-up at track level - so it cannot be at-grade unless fenced off (like Skytrain east of Nanaimo Station) - the at-grade part at the airport will be fenced on each side.

spongeg

May 23rd, 2006, 10:17 AM

ah ok - i wasn't sure - i had seen some old ideas and it seemed to be at street level in the existing bus lanes

i am amazed by those pics at how much is done already

alesmarv

May 23rd, 2006, 08:19 PM

They should of built a third track at all the stations so they could put in a a express service in the future(and increase capacity and train frequency). The costs would not have been huge but the benefits would be big. Imagine if they built a third track at stations on the Expo line, then you could have train a folow behind the train ahead of it, pass it at the next stop, speed up to the next train and repeat the process. In theory a train could bypass another train at every stop, so from Surrey to Vancouver it could pass 16 trains witch would shave about 20 minuits of the trip, 15 minuits if you take the stops it make in to acount say like, Waterfront, Brodway, Metrotown, New Westminster, Surrey Central and King George. For the Canada line they could make stops at Waterfront, Brodway, Bridgeport and Ricmond center.

mr.x

May 26th, 2006, 06:38 AM

Vancouver Sun, Page A01, 25-May-2006
More city residents legging it to work

By Frances Bula

More people in Vancouver walk to work than anywhere in North America except New York City.

The proportion of people commuting by bicycle has doubled in 10 years.
And the transit system, with triple the number of people using it to go to the University of B.C. since 1997 thanks to U-Pass, has become so popular that it's in danger of losing passengers because of overcrowding.

That's the latest transportation picture for Vancouver, a city that is setting the standard as North America's "greenest" city as it bucks the trend to more cars, roads and traffic that prevails elsewhere.

Vancouver has already exceeded the goals it had for 2021 when it comes to reducing car trips and promoting cycling and walking downtown, a shift that many environmentalists and planners say is vital in order to reduce pollution and create more livable cities.

"Our projection for 2021 was to be at 18 per cent for all biking and walking trips. We're now at 27 to 32 per cent, as of 2004. This does not look very ambitious any more," says Lon LaClaire, Vancouver's strategic transportation planning engineer, the co-author of a report outlining the city's progress on its transportation plan.

That's largely because of the city's hugely successful development of a residential downtown, he said. Having 72,000 people living on the downtown peninsula surrounding the central business district is a major reason for that radical increase in walking and cycling.

"There are two things that affect how people get around -- land use and structure. The bigger piece is probably the land use." The city has also doubled the number of kilometres of cycling routes in the past 10 years and worked on ways to make walking more enjoyable.

But people outside Vancouver's boundaries are also choosing not to bring their cars.

Although trips to the city have increased by 23 per cent between 1995 and 2005, vehicle traffic decreased by 10 per cent across Vancouver boundaries in the same period.

The just-released statistics in the city report come from trip diaries, surveys and 24-hour road counts done mostly in 2004.

All of that is in stark contrast to most of the United States. The U.S. Department of Transportation noted recently that "the private vehicle, especially driven alone to work, is the mode of choice. . . . In every major metro area, workers who drove alone to work increased in numbers and share in the last 40 years."

The one problem area for Vancouver is central Broadway, where drivers in cars still account for 50 per cent of all trips. That's partly because the transit connections between the city's two major office hubs -- Broadway and downtown -- are so bad. It's also because transit along Broadway is at capacity.

"We're hitting the wall," said LaClaire. "There's no more capacity in the system for them to get on."

More than 60,000 people use the Broadway buses every day and passengers are getting left at stops because buses are so crowded, even though they're running at one a minute.

LaClaire said the Broadway/Commercial transit hub is the city's biggest congestion problem, with the result that transit use has dropped off slightly in the past year because some people are giving up.

"It's a really tragic thing for us. Anywhere else, carrying that number of people would be on [light rapid transit]."

The extension of the Millennium SkyTrain line from Vancouver Community College to Granville Street had been a priority for TransLink and was originally scheduled to be done by this year. But it was bumped for the Richmond-to-downtown Canada Line and the proposed light rail line into Coquitlam, Port Moody and Port Coquitlam.

LaClaire said some of the Broadway problems will be relieved by the Canada Line, which will create a fast link from Broadway to downtown. But, LaClaire said, the extension to Granville has to be a priority.

His department plans to set new transportation targets for 2031, since it has already achieved most of what it planned to do by 2021.

FAR FROM THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED
Researchers investigate the busiest blocks for pedestrian traffic in Vancouver and preferred methods of travelling in the city. Studies find that more Vancouver residents walk to work than in any other Canadian city.

BUSIEST BLOCKS
A 2002 study flagged these among the downtown spots with the highest number of observed pedestrians between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. and 6 p.m.:
- Robson, Burrard to Granville
- Hornby, Robson to Pender
- Alberni, Bute to Burrard
- Howe, Dunsmuir to Cordova
- Robson, Denman to Broughton
- Davie, Hornby to Granville
- Pender, Carrall to Main
- Burrard, Davie to Comox
- Granville, Davie to Smithe
- Pender, Bute to Granville
- Seymour, Pender to Cordova
- Hastings, Burrard to Homer
- Smithe, Hornby to Granville

spongeg

May 26th, 2006, 06:56 AM

they keep mentioniong the evergreen line but is it even going to be done? its not even started yet or decided completely yet is it?

Plumber73

May 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM

^^ I think in some sense it is started. I read somewhere that core samples are being taken and things of that nature. They're probably about where the RAV line was last year, but I don't know for sure.

alesmarv

May 27th, 2006, 09:40 AM

they keep mentioniong the evergreen line but is it even going to be done? its not even started yet or decided completely yet is it?

Published: Friday, May 26, 2006
GREATER VANCOUVER - The Evergreen rapid transit line to the northeast sector of Greater Vancouver is in serious jeopardy if the provincial government does not contribute more money to help pay for it, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said Thursday.

Corrigan and seven other northeast mayors issued a joint statement urging the province to kick in $230 million -- in addition to $170 million it has already committed -- for the $800-million light rail line.

TransLink, the regional transportation authority, is planning to borrow $400 million for its share of the cost.

The mayors said the Evergreen Line is needed to link some of the region's major growth centres with rapid transit, and said it would "enhance the effectiveness" of the province's $3-billion Gateway Program to build new roads and bridges.

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was not encouraging.

"My position today is that we will maintain the commitment we have always maintained -- $170 million available for the northeast sector line post-2010," Falcon said. "And that has not changed. I respect their right to ask for more money but I'm not making any commitments in that regard."

TransLink wants to get the line built before the 2010 Winter Games, but has been told by the province its contribution won't be available until after 2010 and TransLink will have to borrow if it wants to build it earlier.

TransLink's financial projections show it will be running operating deficits in the hundreds of millions of dollars by the end of the decade unless it gets more funding.

Corrigan wasn't surprised by Falcon's response.

"That's going to require a cabinet decision and the premier's going to have to be involved," he said.

But he said the province once paid for 100 per cent of major transit projects, and has now pared that down to 20 to 25 per cent.

"That is putting an unreasonable burden on the property taxpayer," Corrigan said. "And it certainly isn't assisting growth and development in the Lower Mainland."

Corrigan said the Evergreen line is in serious jeopardy.

"The project has been in jeopardy since the time they made the decision to go with the RAV Line," he said, referring to the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver line, now called the Canada Line.

TransLink, under pressure from the province, agreed two years ago to make the $2-billion Canada Line its first priority, vaulting it ahead of the northeast line.

Some northeast mayors on TransLink's board voted for the change only after they were promised the northeast line would be built simultaneously. But with the funding shortage, that commitment is looking increasingly shaky.

"This is what I've been saying since they prioritized the RAV Line," Corrigan said, "that it was the northeast sector line that was going to suffer, and that we would find ourselves in a position where there wasn't enough money to do both projects."

He said only public pressure can change the government's mind on its share of the funding, and predicted "that many of the people in those northeast communities will react very strongly."

In addition to Burnaby's Corrigan, the joint statement was endorsed by the mayors of Anmore, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, New Westminster, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam and Port Moody.

In a statement, the mayors said, "All mayors agreed that the current estimated funding shortfall of $230 million for the Evergreen transit project is posing a serious threat to its timely implementation."

zonie

May 27th, 2006, 10:09 PM

They should of built a third track at all the stations so they could put in a a express service in the future(and increase capacity and train frequency).I thought they were at least discussing an express service from the airport (for a high premium on ticket price), but I'm guessing they scrapped the idea.

spongeg

May 28th, 2006, 12:11 AM

Published: Friday, May 26, 2006
GREATER VANCOUVER - The Evergreen rapid transit line to the northeast sector of Greater Vancouver is in serious jeopardy if the provincial government does not contribute more money to help pay for it, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said Thursday.

Corrigan and seven other northeast mayors issued a joint statement urging the province to kick in $230 million -- in addition to $170 million it has already committed -- for the $800-million light rail line.

TransLink, the regional transportation authority, is planning to borrow $400 million for its share of the cost.

The mayors said the Evergreen Line is needed to link some of the region's major growth centres with rapid transit, and said it would "enhance the effectiveness" of the province's $3-billion Gateway Program to build new roads and bridges.

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was not encouraging.

"My position today is that we will maintain the commitment we have always maintained -- $170 million available for the northeast sector line post-2010," Falcon said. "And that has not changed. I respect their right to ask for more money but I'm not making any commitments in that regard."

TransLink wants to get the line built before the 2010 Winter Games, but has been told by the province its contribution won't be available until after 2010 and TransLink will have to borrow if it wants to build it earlier.

TransLink's financial projections show it will be running operating deficits in the hundreds of millions of dollars by the end of the decade unless it gets more funding.

Corrigan wasn't surprised by Falcon's response.

"That's going to require a cabinet decision and the premier's going to have to be involved," he said.

But he said the province once paid for 100 per cent of major transit projects, and has now pared that down to 20 to 25 per cent.

"That is putting an unreasonable burden on the property taxpayer," Corrigan said. "And it certainly isn't assisting growth and development in the Lower Mainland."

Corrigan said the Evergreen line is in serious jeopardy.

"The project has been in jeopardy since the time they made the decision to go with the RAV Line," he said, referring to the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver line, now called the Canada Line.

TransLink, under pressure from the province, agreed two years ago to make the $2-billion Canada Line its first priority, vaulting it ahead of the northeast line.

Some northeast mayors on TransLink's board voted for the change only after they were promised the northeast line would be built simultaneously. But with the funding shortage, that commitment is looking increasingly shaky.

"This is what I've been saying since they prioritized the RAV Line," Corrigan said, "that it was the northeast sector line that was going to suffer, and that we would find ourselves in a position where there wasn't enough money to do both projects."

He said only public pressure can change the government's mind on its share of the funding, and predicted "that many of the people in those northeast communities will react very strongly."

In addition to Burnaby's Corrigan, the joint statement was endorsed by the mayors of Anmore, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, New Westminster, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam and Port Moody.

In a statement, the mayors said, "All mayors agreed that the current estimated funding shortfall of $230 million for the Evergreen transit project is posing a serious threat to its timely implementation."

ah - doesn't so promising - seems though that the busses are able to handle it all so far

officedweller

May 28th, 2006, 12:16 AM

I think there will be a "premium" fare to YVR, but not an express train. YVR's requirement was for a 25 min journey and that' being met.

I think the Evergreen Line is just at the project definition stage - defining the project so that a Request for Proposals can be issued and bidders selected.
Alternatively, Translink could be contracting it itself and issuing tenders for the components of the project - I'm not sure which mechanism is being used.

If it is an RFP mechanism, then the "detailed design" would be doine by the successful bidder, but the following timeline from the Translink website doesn't seem to allow much time for a competitive bid and selection process.

I think that it probably is being managed and tendered by Translink - that would also explain why Translink is directly affected by cost increases for materials and labour. It won't be a single fixed price contract, so each tender could be high (or low).

2005 to 2006 : Project Definition Phase (public consultation, preliminary design)
Fall 2006: GVTA Board approval
2006 to 2007: Detailed design
2007 to 2009: Construction and testing
December 2009: In service

zivan56

May 28th, 2006, 06:21 AM

I would rather have the Evergreen line scrapped and more buses put it (or make it BRT). Then have it as Skytrain in the future if there is ever that much demand. I don't see how BRT (with the D60LF's) would'nt fill the need for a long time.

Plumber73

May 28th, 2006, 09:36 AM

officedweller

May 28th, 2006, 11:43 AM

By the time the Evergreen Line is built, the extra Skytrain cars will have arrived - so they'll probably have a lot more 4 car MKII trains to provide extra capacity on the Expo Line from Commercial to downtown. I think another forummer even noticed that the order appears to have been expanded - for more MKII cars.

mr.x

May 28th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Let's say the LRT gets built, and people flock to it. I would think it will make the congestion problem at Broadway/Commercial even worse than it is now - Feeding more people onto the Millenium Line, which is supposed to be a good thing... but I can see things being really ugly there (Broadway/Commercial) for awhile, at least until they do something about the Broadway corridor going west. It's something that they're clearly going to have to do as soon as the funds are available. I don't know what other option there would be. If I had it my way, I would have built a Broadway extension before the Evergreen line. Of course, easier said than done eh?

Major station improvements will be made to Broadway and Commercial Stations beginning this summer and into early next year, including a new southern entrance for Broadway Station and relocating its elevator to the south, a new roof for the station, widened pedestrian bridge over Broadway, and many more.

Plumber73

May 28th, 2006, 10:43 PM

mr.x

May 29th, 2006, 12:26 AM

That's great, but I don't see how those improvements address congestion.

I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of where people tend to go when they get to Broadway/Commercial. I.e., % of people going west along Broadway vs going towards downtown on the Expo line. More Mk2 cars would ensure people get a seat going downtown, but I think we're still left with the problem of an over burdened bus route towards UBC. That problem I don't see changing for years.

It wouldn't address congestion on the trains but it'll address congestion on the platforms........Along with these plans, i'd like to see the Broadway Station platform extended to maybe 120 metres from 80 metres. Though the trains wouldn't be anywhere near 120 metres, it'll give commuters some space to roam around.

Plumber73

May 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM

I didn't realize it was that bad on the platforms. Perhaps people's tolerance for crowded places is low here. Got to have that 3 foot space around every person I guess.

officedweller

May 29th, 2006, 03:30 AM

....., but I think we're still left with the problem of an over burdened bus route towards UBC. That problem I don't see changing for years.

There's a new express bus from VCC Station to UBC - so UBC bound M-Line riders who would have gotten off at Broadway-Commercial can avoid the congestion and go to VCC Station. Anyone know if it has helped alleviate congestion?

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/buzzer/2006/Buzzer_Jan06.pdf

mr.x

May 29th, 2006, 03:54 AM

I didn't realize it was that bad on the platforms. Perhaps people's tolerance for crowded places is low here. Got to have that 3 foot space around every person I guess.

Well 50,000 people go in and out of that station every single day. That's by far much more than the second busiest station, Commercial at 29,000/day.

spongeg

May 29th, 2006, 09:10 AM

i had to transfer from the mil line to expo at broadway one morning - around 8 am - it was nuts

i never knew just how busy it was - the platfrom was barley moveable and every train was really already full so no one was able to get on

it was awfukl

it took me over 15 minutes to get on a train

spongeg

May 29th, 2006, 09:11 AM

mr.x

May 29th, 2006, 09:42 AM

alesmarv

May 29th, 2006, 06:48 PM

To get an idea of how long the Canada Line station platforms will be, just look at this aerial picture of Kuala Lumpur's monorail. Our Canada Line stations are 41 metres long (with an exception of a few at 50 metres at the most)....the monorail platform length in the picture is 40 metres.
http://www.ktmrailwayfan.com/pics/data/media/350/KLMONO.jpg

By the way who is going to pay for the future expansion of all these stations when they max out in capacity in the not so distant future, I hope its the private operator because otherwise those are some big hiden costs in the project that we will have to pay.

zonie

May 30th, 2006, 01:31 AM

oh and i agree i think they should extend the millenium line to intersect with the Canadian line before the evergreen line goes in - and i live in coquitlam - its never that busy on that line until you get to transfer at broadway
100% agree! Extend M-Line as far as possible before building Evergreen. Broadway is a mess as it is, and needs to be addressed before adding thousands more people from Coquitlam; not to mention that all those new condos on the M-Line are filling up, further increasing the pressure on Broadway.

mr.x

May 30th, 2006, 03:27 AM

By the way who is going to pay for the future expansion of all these stations when they max out in capacity in the not so distant future, I hope its the private operator because otherwise those are some big hiden costs in the project that we will have to pay.

I've heard of speculation that the stations can't be extended past 50 metres because of the way the Cambie stations are built.

mr.x

May 30th, 2006, 03:35 AM

Choke Point: Our busiest transit hub
The transit hub at Broadway and Commercial is the busiest in the Lower Mainland with lineups for popular bus routes

Emily Chung and Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, May 29, 2006

Vancouver planners call it their Port Mann bridge -- the choke point that controls the flow for the whole system.

Visually, the transit hub at Broadway and Commercial -- the busiest in the system -- doesn't attract as much attention as Port Mann congestion, because hundreds of transit passengers waiting for a bus or SkyTrain don't snake down Highway 1 the way cars and trucks do.

But those in the 200-person lines up and down the street or packing the SkyTrain platforms experience about the same travel delays as anyone idling in traffic at either end of the Port Mann during rush hour.

The congestion leads to scenes like one on Friday morning rush hour, when it took three tries for a young couple to get a large suitcase onto a SkyTrain at Broadway station.

The man's attempt to shove the suitcase onto train No. 1 failed when he was shut out by a wall of passengers bursting out the doors.

The couple waited for train No. 2, which stopped down the platform, away from them. They ran toward it and got half the suitcase onto the train before a straggling passenger forced them to pull back out to let him off. They finally got onto train No. 3, which barely accommodated the suitcase and both its chaperones between other close-packed passengers.

The couple were lucky. Even without a suitcase, commuter Sande Rees, 22, said she usually watches one or two full trains go by before she can squeeze into a SkyTrain car at the Broadway station during the morning rush hour.

Broadway and Commercial, the busiest transit hub in the Lower Mainland, brings together two SkyTrain lines and the two most heavily used bus lines in the entire system, the 99-B rapid bus that travels along Broadway to the University of B.C. and the No. 9 local bus that also runs on Broadway.

"The fact that our main route is at capacity on Broadway is actually a much bigger problem for us than the Port Mann," said Lon LaClaire, Vancouver's strategic transportation planning engineer. "And the more we get people interested in transit, all these lines get bigger. But the fact that our critical links are tapped out is a problem."

And in three years, it will all get worse, as the newly opened Canada Line brings even more commuters into the system.

As it is, more than 100,000 people come through the Broadway/Commercial hub daily. At peak times, a SkyTrain arrives there every 108 seconds, a 99 B-line bus arrives every three minutes and a trolley bus arrives every three to five minutes, said Ken Hardie, director of communications for TransLink. Nevertheless, passengers can wait here up to 15 minutes for a spot on a SkyTrain car or a 99 B-line bus.

"Between 8 and 9 [a.m.], it gets horrendous here," said John Holdal, who works for Coast Mountain Bus Company, helping load people on the 99 B-line bus. "Usually there's two busloads standing here at once."

Holdal gestured to the lineup stretching more than 20 metres from Broadway into the station's atrium. He said it is usually twice as long, extending almost to the fence that separates the back of the atrium from the bushy gully cradling the Millennium line SkyTrain rail.

Jin Ming Song, who has been handing out the 24 Hours commuter paper at the station for a year, said sometimes the buses are slow to arrive, and the line winds "like a snake."

Bobbi Macdonald, who was standing in the lineup for a 99 B-line bus at Broadway, agreed. "The lineup can sometimes be 100 people long," she said. "It's really unpredictable, I find."

Each morning, Macdonald, 36, makes an hour and a half bus journey that begins at her home in the Grandview neighbourhood. From there, she travels with her two-year-old son, Morgan, to his daycare at Broadway and Nanaimo.

Then, she tries to catch one of the few 99 buses that starts its route at Boundary (most begin at Commercial Drive.) If she misses it, she must take another bus to Broadway station. There, she said, she waits in line up to 15 minutes for a 99 bus.

"The buses are always overfull," she said.

Hardie said transit ridership went up 24 per cent between 2002 and 2005. "And a lot of that has been along that corridor," he added, noting the student transit pass introduced at UBC in 2003 was a large contributor.

"Sometimes, though, if there's a lot of demand for something, it's not that easy to access," he said.

He noted the corridor is the next prime candidate for rapid transit -- after the Canada Line to Richmond and the Evergreen Line to Port Coquitlam -- but for now, service along the corridor is almost at saturation.

"In terms of the management of people at Broadway and Commercial itself, we're probably physically moving as many buses as possible."

In fact, Hardie said, wait times and "pass-ups" are worse at later stops along the route, and TransLink is addressing those problems by not filling buses to capacity at Broadway/Commercial and by starting some buses at later stops such as Main St.

That doesn't help commuters like Macdonald. The unpredictable commute times have prompted her to get her learner driver's licence. "I can't continue to be late for work," she said.

That's exactly the kind of thinking that has transportation planners worried.

The Vancouver region is seeing a rapid spurt of interest from commuters in using transit. But if it doesn't have a system to serve them, they'll be turned off for years.

In fact, transit use declined slightly after a peak in 2004, shortly after the U-Pass system was introduced, likely because people were put off by the crowding.

TransLink and the city of Vancouver are working on some improvements to help the existing hub work better. TransLink is trying to accelerate the arrival of 34 new SkyTrain cars that were due to arrive in 2009.

[B]With the help of some federal funding, about $3.5 million will be spent on revamping the Broadway/Commercial "village" to create more plaza space, widen the narrow sidewalk on the south side, widen the overhead walkway across Broadway, relocate escalators that are blocking flow and generally improve the look of the overworked corner.

The city is also in the process, along with all the other work it's doing on Broadway, of creating bus-only lanes from Commercial to Arbutus for the rush-hour periods. That will be in place by September, usually the busiest month of the year as college and university students flood back onto the system.

Over the next year, it will also put in a traffic-light coordination system so buses will be able to delay lights turning red against them at pedestrian crossings.

As well, it's putting in bus bulges between Macdonald and Alma, a small improvement that will shave 10 seconds per stop off bus travel times.

"But all we're doing is tweaking the system to get a little improvement," LaClaire acknowledges. Things won't be better until Broadway gets the SkyTrain extension that it was originally scheduled for 2006, before the Canada Line to Richmond and the Evergreen Line to Port Coquitlam jumped ahead.

In the meantime, he said, "it's really painful to watch."

echung@png.canwest.com

fbula@png.canwest.com

TRANSIT'S TOP TRANSFER

Broadway and Commercial SkyTrain station is the most important single transfer point in Greater Vancouver, connecting Millennium and Expo SkyTrain lines with Broadway, the region's busiest bus corridor. Facts about this station:

75,000

Daily SkyTrain boardings and disembarkings.

41,000

Daily bus boardings and disembarkings.

116,000

Total daily boardings and disembarkings.

232,000

Projected total daily boardings and disembarkings by 2021.

Source: TransLink
© The Vancouver Sun 2006

officedweller

June 1st, 2006, 10:37 PM

Came across the Copenhagen Metro site - specs read similar to the Canada Line and stations are of similar size:

http://www.m.dk/en/welcome.htm

They call it a "MiniMetro".
Trains are 39m long and 2.65m wide (300 passenger capacity) - 19 trainsets for phase 1, then expanded to 34 trainsets.
22 Stations, each 62m long. System is 21 km long with two branches.
Automated controls. Initial frequency is 3 min combined service on common track and 6 min on each branch. Freq on common stretch to be reduced to 90s. 15 min freq. all night weekends

Overview of system:

http://www.m.dk/introduction.pdf

Report on selection of MiniMetro technology - compares MiniMetro; Tram; Light Rail:

http://www.m.dk/minimetro.pdf

Overview of operation:

http://www.m.dk/experience_outlook.doc

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/kob/orestad2.jpg

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/kob/orestad1.jpg

mr.x

June 12th, 2006, 12:40 AM

A little beauty and a great big boring beast

Raina Delisle, The Province
Published: Sunday, June 11, 2006

Four-year-old Leilani Henry was bestowed a "boring" honour yesterday, but she was excited.

The 440-tonne tunnel-boring machine that will dig a pair of 2.5-kilometre tunnels under downtown Vancouver for the Canada Line rapid transit system was named after the little girl.

Leilani's father, Brendan Henry, is chief engineer of the boring operation.

"With the machine, we go into places where no one has ever been before," said Henry, who works for SNC-Lavalin. "Going into uncharted territory is adventurous. My Leilani's an adventurous girl, so it's fitting."

A bottle of champagne was thrown against the machine, "Sweet Leilani," by Canada Line president and CEO Jane Bird, InTransitBC president and CEO Jean-Marc Arbaud and Jim Burke of SNC-Lavalin.

"The champagne is a tradition for good luck and good tunnelling," said Richard Lovat, chairman of Lovat, the company that built the machine. "We always name the machines after a lady."

Sweet Leilani is parked in a huge pit at West Second Avenue and Cambie Street.

The machine was revved up as engineers, construction workers and officials in hard hats cheered.

rdelisle@png.canwest.com

ABOUT SWEET LEILANI

- Weighs 440 tonnes

- 86 metres long

- 6.1 metres in diameter

- Guided by a GPS laser tracking system

- Electrically powered

- Will bore two 2.5-km tunnel

- Will dig 10 metres a day at depths of 10 to 30 metres

© The Vancouver Province 2006

mr.x

June 12th, 2006, 08:36 AM

Thanking Tafyn from Skyscraperpage for these pictures and information:

Today (2006-06-10) was the dedication ceremony for Sweet Leilani, the Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM) being used to construct the section of the Canada Line that stretches from 2nd Avenue near city hall (Olympic Village Station), under False Creek and extending under downtown Vancouver to Waterfront Station.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5520.jpg

The 52 ton gantry crane in mid-erection. This crane is used to move parts of the Tunnel Boring Machine within the pit, load supplies, and to raise up materials extracted as the tunnel is cut. Note the rails along both sides of the pit to allow the gantry to move north and south along the extent of the pit.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5538.jpg

The crane used to erect the gantry crane and to assemble the TBM is the largest street-legal crane that I have ever seen. It takes up two lanes of traffic when driven down a street. It can lift up to 440 tons.

In total, there were five cranes at the construction site.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5555.jpg

Looking to the South, down into the pit, one can see the TBM on the right. Two short tunnels have been cut into the north end of the pit to allow the running space for the train that carries the cut materials out of the main tunnel.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5578.jpg

Looking to the North, inside the pit, the main cutting section of the TBM can be seen.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5590.jpg

The entire TBM is mounted upon rollers, which allows it to move along the tunnel as it is cut.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5601.jpg

Inside the front assembly of the TBM.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5606.jpg

In the center, the hydraulic drive that is used to turn the cutting head of the TBM can be seen. In less than a week, this section will be underground.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5613.jpg

The logos of the construction partners and the TBM name adorns the TBM head.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5618.jpg

The TBM Cutting Face rotates and scrapes away material as it cuts through the rock. The green triangular pieces are the cutting blades. They can be extended outwards and retracted back to vary the amount of material that is scraped of as the face rotates. The red rollers press against the face and turn under friction. The circular opening near the top left is the inspection portal. It connects to an airlock that can be opened to allow people to enter to inspect the condition of the bore and to troubleshoot any encountered problems.

The range of materials that need to be tunnelled through range from glacial till to sandstone containing dikes and sills of volcanic rock. Having the cutting blades adjustable allow such a wide range of material hardness to be handled by the same cutting head, dramatically reducing the time required to bore the tunnel.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5639.jpg

As the TBM moves forward, these sections of pre-cast concrete casing are placed around the bore. These pieces interlock and float in concrete grout that is forced under pressure between the tunnel walls and the completed casing.

http://www.kasuria.com/tafyrn/photos/2006/CanadaLine02/KICX5616.jpg

The priest arrives with his holy water to bless the machine, concluding the dedication ceremony.

spongeg

June 13th, 2006, 11:54 AM

did you hear someone was trying to ride a bicycle across the skytrain bridge today adn they had to shut it down for a while?

mr.x

June 14th, 2006, 06:26 AM

MARINE DRIVE STATION PLAN

Marine Drive is the most southerly, and the only elevated,
station of the nine Canada Line stations located within the
City of Vancouver. This station site, at the southeast corner of
the busy Marine Drive and Cambie Street intersection, slopes
southward toward the Fraser River flfl ood plain.

North of the station, the guideway emerges from
underground to transition to an aerial guideway, clearing
Marine Drive before reaching the station. It then climbs
again to the south to bridge across the north arm of the
Fraser River to access both Richmond and the Airport. The
station will serve as a gateway for those both entering and
leaving the City of Vancouver.

Partially located on the western edge of the former ICBC
Claim Centre site and partially within the existing Cambie
Street right-of-way, the new station will be served by a new
bus loop to the south and future redevelopment to the east
on the remainder of the ICBC site.

The segment of Cambie Street south of Marine Drive will
provide limited access to the new bus loop and will act as
an important bike route that will link to the new Fraser River
bike crossing.

Land use around the station is organized north and south of
Marine Drive. Single and multi-family zones dominate to the
north, punctuated with small scale retail at the intersection.
To the south of Marine Drive, the predominant land use is
light industrial, but with a small multi-family complex on the
west side of Cambie, directly opposite the station.
Views from the station platform will reveal distant glimpses
of water and mountains.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2245/84fh1.jpg
The Marine Drive Station location will defi ne the place where the Cambie Street Boulevard of trees and landscaping terminates at a Fraser River industrial zone. The image for the Station, as it emerges from green landscaped walls symbolizing the end of the boulevard, will be a dramatically elevated platform resting on a fulcrum, launching the Station and the guideway as it continues south arching over the Fraser River. The Station itself will have a design influenced by the long history of sawmill activity in the area with simple industrial building forms, log flumes and bee-hive burners, and materials of steel and wood.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5596/93lm.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1968/103wj.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6656/118nv1.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8199/123je.jpg

Station Surroundings

http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/12(Map).gif
http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/13.gif

Station Designs

http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/11(3D).gif

Bus Loop Level (purposed):
http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/8(busloop).gif

Concourse Level:
http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/10(concourse).gif

Platform:
http://members.shaw.ca/kmini/Canada%20Line/marine/9(platform).gif

mr.x

June 14th, 2006, 09:27 PM

MARINE DRIVE TUNNEL PORTAL

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7689/136po.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2503/142az.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7693/153en.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1241/168nh.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/948/170st.jpg

spongeg

June 17th, 2006, 10:08 AM

some pics of progress in Richmond

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/june2006021.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/june2006020.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/june2006019.jpg

officedweller

June 23rd, 2006, 08:49 PM

The street trees on Granville Street are being cut down by City of Vancouver crews - in anticipation of station excavation next month.

spongeg

June 25th, 2006, 12:31 AM

yes i saw them last night

it looked weird to see it so open without the shady trees

there was a big pile of christmas lights just left on the sidewalk

spongeg

June 26th, 2006, 09:00 AM

some pics of the airport progess - the first is some of the pillars and the second is a big pile of gravel/dirt now bit its what will be the parking or station

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/june2006029.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/june2006030.jpg

mr.x

July 12th, 2006, 06:24 AM

CANADA LINE TRAIN UPDATE

The first wave of new urban trains for Rio de Janeiro have just arrived.....and guess what, they're made by ROTEM and they are the XG-EMU; also our Canada Line trains. These Brazilian trains have a lot more in common with the Canada Line rendering than the ones I've shown you (including the doors which open inside, not outside).
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/photo_gallery/images/2005-11-25_Canada-Line-4.jpg

interior
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/interna01.jpg

lateral safety
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/anteparolateral.jpg

interior
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/interna02.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/interna03.jpg

eletronic sign panel (CANADA LINE TRAINS WILL HAVE THESE "NEXT STATION" SIGNS"
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/paineleletr.jpg

Seat for 2 passengers
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/assento2passageiros.jpg

Seat for 3 passengers + waste basket
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/assento3passageiros.jpg

Seat for 4 passengers (back to back)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/assento4passageirosbacktoback.jpg

Seats 2 e 4 passengers
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/assentos2e4passageiros.jpg

Light and hand-pole
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/luminarias.jpg

Hand-pole detail
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/pega-mo.jpg

Conection
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/conexoentrecarros.jpg

lateral safety + waste basket
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/anteparolateralecestodelixo.jpg

Outside
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/externa01.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/externa3trens.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/frente01.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/frente02.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/frente03.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/bbatella/frente04.jpg

spongeg

July 13th, 2006, 06:51 AM

$3 million price tag for Canada Line extension

A city of Vancouver proposal to move a planned Canada Line rapid transit station closer to Broadway will cost an extra $3 million, but a city official says the new station site would make it easier for people who use transit to connect with bus lines along Broadway and the long-expected western extension of the Millennium SkyTrain line.

A city hall report going to next week's council meeting recommends the city spend $1 million for the relocation, as long as TransLink and its subsidiary, the Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc., put up $1 million apiece.

The planned Cambie Street route of the rapid transit line between Vancouver and Richmond wouldn't change.

But there's an estimated $3 million in additional construction costs to move the Broadway station about 50 metres closer to Broadway, boosting the Canada Line's total projected cost to $2.053 billion.

source (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=a49931cd-9f52-42e1-8edf-22e3e63c340b&k=11356)

spongeg

July 13th, 2006, 07:20 AM

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/286526377151443.php

If folks in Ottawa want a good indication of where the city's light rail transit project is headed, all that's needed is a brief glance to the west.

That's because the city of Vancouver is involved in a nearly-identical project called the Canada Line (formerly called the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver Line), scheduled to open in 2009 and partly funded from private-sector investments.

Both projects, it turns out, are public private partnerships (P3s), a relatively new form of governmental procurement involving a mashup of public and private interests. In Ottawa's case, says the city's Rejean Chartrand, this type of agreement transfers overrun risk to the Siemens-PCL/Dufferin consortium who won the design, build and maintenance contract a few months ago.

"The structure of the contract is for the design, the construction and the 15-year maintenance period," says Mr. Chartrand. "This is what really creates the partnership component. It's a fixed commitment and firm price to both design and build it, and also a fixed price to maintain it for 15 years."

That's similar to Vancouver's deal, but not quite – its maintenance agreement is scheduled to last 35 years, 20 years longer than Ottawa's. Vancouver's Canada Line, now well into its construction phase, has also secured five separate funding partners including the federal and B.C. provincial governments, the Vancouver YVR International Airport, the regional transportation authority, and even the private sector company tasked with building the railway.

According to Canada Line's communications director, Alan Dever, In Transit B.C. (a company one-third owned by SNC Lavalin, the B.C. provincial pension fund, and a Quebec interest) is dunking $720 million into the $2-billion project – no small sum, considering Ottawa's private sector investment adds up to a nice round zero.

The amount of public funds designated for Canada Line has been capped at $1.3 billion, said Mr. Dever. Any snags in the construction phase will theoretically be paid by the contractor, as in Ottawa's deal, so money is doled out as the project is built rather than by the amount of materials used, as under a more traditional procurement agreement.

Same with federal and provincial money going towards the project, says Mr. Chartrand. "The understanding is premised on construction milestones.

The plan is that we will have a schedule of payment with the contractor, so when they build component 'a' worth $1 million, then we pay the contractor $1 million, and we claim back from the province and f ederal government their share of the million.

"And we'll be doing this on a monthly basis."

Canada Line's Mr. Dever says the P3 side of light rail construction is very much like building a house. "The contract, among other things, what it does is transfers all the risk for construction overrun to the private sector. The public sector funding is $1.3 billion or so, and it's capped at that amount. And any overruns are paid for by the private sector.

"If you want to see changes in scope, then you have to pay for it, just like if you're building a house. If there are changes to the scope of the house, then those are additional funds."

Mr. Chartrand says Ottawa's financing structure is different, despite the fact that both projects are P3s and both have similar objectives. In Vancouver's case, "They effectively told the contractor we have so much money to put towards this, and you, the contractor, have to come up with the difference in financing. And the contractor is financing the difference."

"In our case, we don't have the contractor providing any financing," thanks to the way the deal was originally constructed, says Mr. Chartrand.

So if the track needs a slight extension during the construction phase, or if a new station not in the current plan needs building, the city must pay. The municipality is footing most of the bill for the project (other than $400 million kicked in by the federal and provincial governments), whose price ranges from $750 million to $1 billion depending on who you speak with.

"But otherwise, everything is fixed for the 15-year period," he says. "So they take the risk.

"So a public private partnership is about risk transfer, so the risk transfer is whatever they design and build, they have to maintain for a fixed price. So if they don't build it properly, and its going to cost them more during the 15 year maintenance, well, that's the risk that they take.

"And in addition, we're securing guarantees from the company itself," continues Mr. Chartrand. "Which means that at that point in time, you can take them to court and their assets – the company assets are being pledged, is essentially what this means."

Mr. Chartrand calls these guarantees "effectively ironclad." The Siemens consortium has, he says, provided a $300-million performance bond, another $300-million labour and materials payment bond, and finally a $16-million letter of credit "that will be irrevocable in the city's name, and if they don't perform the city has the ability to access this letter of credit if things aren't done properly," he says.

Opponents to the city's light rail plan say these guarantees aren't enough to finance a project that's sure to cost over $1 billion when all is said and done. "This project started off in the $400-million range when first budgeted," says Peter Hillier of the Get It Right group, a conglomerate of business groups who want the LRT decision deferred until after the election. As it stands now, council is set to vote on the project July 14.

"It quickly ran up to $625 million and over the last six months has risen from $725 to $900 million, including ancillary projects that are necessary but they left off the project budget.

"We're getting $400 million from the Provincial and Federal Governments and the mayor has yet to fully explain where he is going to drum up the rest."