View Full Version : As Traffic Grows, LA's Resistance To Subways Melts


Whiteeclipse
December 3rd, 2005, 09:44 AM
Waxman Rethinks Tunneling Ban
# Twenty years after a gas explosion stopped plans for a Westside subway, he plans to review new findings that the project could be built safely.

By Martha Groves, Times Staff Writer

For two decades, one legislator in Washington, D.C., has stood as an immovable barrier to the long-discussed plans to build a subway from downtown Los Angeles to the Westside.

But now, with traffic gridlocked in his district and the Westside in the midst of a continuing development boom that promises to bring even more congestion, Rep. Henry A. Waxman is having second thoughts.

The Los Angeles Democrat is the most prominent of a growing list of people and groups giving the Westside subway another look.

In the mid-1980s, after a methane gas explosion ripped through a Fairfax-area clothing store, Waxman helped lead the effort to halt plans to extend the Metro Red Line subway west under Wilshire Boulevard. Waxman wrote, and Congress passed, legislation to prohibit using federal money to drill the needed tunnels.

Now, 20 years later, the Westside subway is a top priority of Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, and an expert panel convened at the request of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority concluded recently that the Wilshire subway could be built safely.

That puts the veteran congressman once again in a pivotal position. By repealing the law, Waxman could help resurrect the dream of an underground transit line to the beach, through a part of town that arguably needs public transit the most.

Waxman has asked the panel to produce a written report on its findings.

"If the report confirms what we've been hearing, I will introduce a proposal to rescind the restriction," Waxman said from Washington.

If Waxman does agree to rescind the law, it would mark a milestone for the subway project — but it would be only a first step toward getting it built.

No funding, federal or otherwise, is earmarked for such a project, and many other regional transit needs would compete with a Red Line extension. Moreover, the per-mile price for subway construction has skyrocketed in the last 20 years, to between $300 million and $350 million.

Still, backers see Waxman's move as key.

"I would hope the congressman would move in that direction," said Ray Remy, a longtime Los Angeles County transit official and former president of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce who served for eight years in Mayor Tom Bradley's administrations. "Mayor Bradley always felt that the most productive line was the Wilshire corridor line. It was one of the principal underpinnings to the large subway system he had contemplated."

Even homeowners who rose up in opposition to the Wilshire subway have mellowed as development has continued apace and traffic has increased.

"Things have gotten progressively worse over the past 20 years, and today we need rapid transit more than we ever did," said Diana Plotkin, president of the Beverly Wilshire Homes Assn., which includes much of the Fairfax area. "We do need a solution to this horrible traffic problem."

Assuming that Waxman rescinds his ban, she said, her group would not oppose a subway to the beach, as long as it ran straight out Wilshire Boulevard and the city kept development along Wilshire under control.

On that score, she is skeptical, given the unabated development of retail stores, residences and restaurants in the area in recent years.

Other cities, too, have overcome previous resistance to mass transit on the Westside. Early this year, Beverly Hills and West Hollywood officials said the MTA should revive subway building as a way to ease the region's transportation problems.

"Westside cities … are one of the great economic engines" of the region, Mark Egerman told the MTA board in February, when he was the mayor of Beverly Hills. "We are being strangled because we have no integrated transit system with the rest of Los Angeles."



A subway to the beach has been on transit proponents' wish lists for decades. In the early 1980s, transit officials mapped out a plan to take a subway as far west as Fairfax Avenue. It was then intended to head north under Fairfax, doglegging back under the Cahuenga Pass and into North Hollywood.

But disaster struck when a worker punched a time clock in March 1985, igniting a previously undetected accumulation of odorless methane gas in the basement of a Ross Dress for Less store on 3rd Street near Fairfax. The explosion blew off most of the roof and prompted evacuations from four square blocks of shops near the Farmers Market. For days, fiery cracks opened in the earth until the seeping gas was vented.

"Once Ross exploded," Plotkin said, "we all were just frightened to death and, of course, came out against it."

Waxman said he, too, had paid little attention to the subway plans. "I was a very strong supporter of the Metro Rail system," he said. "I voted consistently for the project," figuring that those plotting the routes "must have known what they were doing."

The blast raised serious questions, Waxman said. After hearing experts' testimony and conferring with transit officials, Waxman concluded that the project warranted further study. "I had misgivings about the whole plan," he said.

In September 1985, he briefly supported a measure to eliminate all federal funding for the project. Then he reached a compromise with Julian Dixon — the late pro-transit congressman for whom the 7th Street subway station is named — that allowed the project to proceed but prohibited tunneling in the methane risk zones and required further studies. Waxman's compromise legislation stopped the subway at Western Avenue.

Although Waxman asserts strongly that safety was his No. 1 concern, many political observers say well-heeled constituents in Hancock Park and elsewhere were opposed to building a Metro stop at Wilshire and Crenshaw boulevards, near a large African American community (Waxman's 30th District runs through Hollywood, Beverly Hills and Century City west though Westwood, Brentwood, Santa Monica and Malibu).

"There were certain elements of the community then, as opposed to now, whose opposition [to the subway] was based on issues having nothing to do with safety but rather … politics and race," said Stephen Kramer, an attorney and president of the Miracle Mile Chamber of Commerce.

To this day, some critics contend that methane concerns became a convenient excuse for Waxman to keep the project from traveling through affluent areas of his district.

Waxman disputes that. So does Kramer: "He wasn't trying to appease some bigot somewhere. I think methane was a legitimate issue."

Waxman's legislation had a profound effect on the Red Line. From Vermont Avenue, the subway eventually headed west under Hollywood Boulevard on the way to the San Fernando Valley.

During construction in June 1995, a 70-by-70-foot sinkhole opened along Hollywood Boulevard. Defects plagued construction. Congress and the Clinton administration pondered whether to pull the financial plug.

In November 1998, Los Angeles County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky seized on the public's frustration with MTA cost overruns and put on the ballot a measure to ban the use of local sales tax dollars for further subway construction. Voters approved it, and the prohibition remains in effect.

To date, 17.4 miles of subway have been built in the region, at a cost of $4.5 billion. Above-ground stretches of the Blue, Green and Gold lines bring the total Metro Rail system to 73.1 miles. None of it is on the Westside, where east-west surface streets and the Santa Monica Freeway are subjected to a daily crush of vehicles.

Yaroslavsky said he was pleased that Waxman was revisiting his ban on federal funding for tunneling in methane zones. It is imperative, he said, that Los Angeles figure out a better way than buses to serve the Wilshire corridor, the most heavily traveled in the city.

"You need to get to Beverly Hills, Century City, Westwood, UCLA," he said. But getting Waxman to repeal his legislation is only the beginning.

"We've got to find funds to dig a hole under Wilshire," Yaroslavsky said. "It's going to be slow. But with [Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger] talking about a $50-billion infrastructure bond, that opens up an opportunity we haven't had before."

klamedia
December 3rd, 2005, 10:41 AM
Only a matter of time.

Fern~Fern*
December 3rd, 2005, 12:19 PM
Can you just imagine the daily ridership along this corridor. This needs to be done, and hopefully no more delays and lawsuits. Mayor Antonio V. needs to put this matter on over drive.

klamedia
December 3rd, 2005, 05:44 PM
He has and he is its biggest supporter. He's a kick-ass mayor! He relentlessly mentions mass-transit when giving speeches and talks of LA growing vertically instead of horizontally. Defitnetly a blessing to this city!

Fern~Fern*
December 3rd, 2005, 11:30 PM
Hey Klamedia, I was checking out the post about the yellow line. I've only heard about the Silver line. When you posted both up on the other thread, it just shows how Hungry LA is about mass transit! Angelinos are just fed up of the daily Traffic.........

soup or man
December 4th, 2005, 07:37 AM
All I know is that if the Red Line were to extend to UCLA via Wilshire, then it would be hands down the busiest subway line in the nation..possibly the world. The summer of 2007 I can honestly see the Red Line Westside extention (hopefully) under construction.

spicytimothy
December 4th, 2005, 10:55 AM
All I know is that if the Red Line were to extend to UCLA via Wilshire, then it would be hands down the busiest subway line in the nation..possibly the world. The summer of 2007 I can honestly see the Red Line Westside extention (hopefully) under construction.

i really highly doubt this... remember: the residences being built on Wilshire are all very affluent and expensive housing... if u expect them to take the Metro thaz just wishful thinking... look at 720 rite now... 80% of the riders are low income workers (personal observation)... besides, Angelinos are sooooo attached to their cars... even the middle class are turned off by the public transit...

besides, the population density in LA simply doesn't favor public transit... not only do people live too far apart, business districts are all over the place and not dense enough...

I hope Mayor V can be successful in making LA more vertical... so far he's been a very good mayor, talking about affordable housing and transit overhauls... :-) they gotta allow LA to grow upward first...

Palal
December 4th, 2005, 11:06 AM
i really highly doubt this... remember: the residences being built on Wilshire are all very affluent and expensive housing... if u expect them to take the Metro thaz just wishful thinking... look at 720 rite now... 80% of the riders are low income workers (personal observation)... besides, Angelinos are sooooo attached to their cars... even the middle class are turned off by the public transit...

One thing you're forgetting is that a subway appeals better to more affluent riders and that is one of the reasons why light rail and subway lines usually do so much better in terms of ridership.

Palal
December 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM
All I know is that if the Red Line were to extend to UCLA via Wilshire, then it would be hands down the busiest subway line in the nation..possibly the world. The summer of 2007 I can honestly see the Red Line Westside extention (hopefully) under construction.
Not so fast. Many legislative roadblocks have to be overcome before construction can begin. Besides the need to overturn the ban on construction under Wilshire, you also need to complete a study (usually takes a few years and a few hundred million dollars) and an EIR, at the very least. Also remember, there are still many opponents to subways in general in the L.A. area. Zev Yaroslavsky will be the first one in line. :D. However, with adequate political support, we should be able to see groundbreaking within ten years and completion within twenty years, so hopefully I will get to ride the line in my lifetime :).

VansTripp
December 4th, 2005, 04:35 PM
New subway extansion, great public transportation and all complete lines over LA can be affect to your car insurance cost and can going higher as like in NYC. Overall, I need car for whole of my life and despite ride on public transportation. You cannot have food and drink on public transportation as you can have it in car.

CarsonCaliBrotha
December 4th, 2005, 05:14 PM
New subway extansion, great public transportation and all complete lines over LA can be affect to your car insurance cost and can going higher as like in NYC. Overall, I need car for whole of my life and despite ride on public transportation. You cannot have food and drink on public transportation as you can have it in car.
Actually, you can eat and drink on trains. Buses they might say something, but if your in the back of a crowded bus what can they do? Also, you really shouldn't be eating and drinking anything while driving. :)

VansTripp
December 4th, 2005, 06:46 PM
Actually, you can eat and drink on trains. Buses they might say something, but if your in the back of a crowded bus what can they do? Also, you really shouldn't be eating and drinking anything while driving. :)

Depends on car and road.

If u have manual transmission so it will be hard to eat/drink at same time, just stop car at red light stop then eat/drink quickly until changes into green light. I do drink soda when driving on road with no problem.

klamedia
December 4th, 2005, 07:02 PM
i really highly doubt this... remember: the residences being built on Wilshire are all very affluent and expensive housing... if u expect them to take the Metro thaz just wishful thinking... look at 720 rite now... 80% of the riders are low income workers (personal observation)... besides, Angelinos are sooooo attached to their cars... even the middle class are turned off by the public transit...

besides, the population density in LA simply doesn't favor public transit... not only do people live too far apart, business districts are all over the place and not dense enough...

I hope Mayor V can be successful in making LA more vertical... so far he's been a very good mayor, talking about affordable housing and transit overhauls... :-) they gotta allow LA to grow upward first...


This just simply isnt true. BH along with W. Hollywood publicly came out in the beginning of the year FOR the Red Line passing through their cities. In fact this was a hallmark of Mayor V's platform. He had a very solid Westside constituency that is completely behind his agenda. These areas NOW know that they lose $11 billion a year to traffic congestion. About density? LA has densities on par with eastern cities that have great mass transit. Some of the areas that the Red line goes through are on a density level of Brooklyn and Queens averaging 20,000-40,000 peeps per sq mile. The Red line ridership already is comparable to other subways in the country and the phenomenal Blue Line has THE highest ridership of any light rail in N. America.
http://www.laalmanac.com/LA/la00c47.htm
http://www.laalmanac.com/LA/la00c76.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queens

The reluctance of taking public transit is fading and fading fast in this city due to traffic. For the first time we have a mayor who takes the Gold Line to work, it's the Go Metro with the mayor campaign, and ridership is up, not down.

As far as poor people riding transit. Well, the working class in any city that you go to are going to be the most loyal to transit and so what if they are the only ones riding it, shouldn't they as well have a fast clean way of getting around town? Why punish them on slow moving buses? Mass rapid transit will also increase your tourist dollars. LA has to GROW UP and start thinking of itself as a WHOLE city and not just on a class/race level, it simply won't survive. I ride the Red Line everyday and see a cornucopia of seemingly different ethnicities, races and I'm sure class levels. Hopefully you are with the rest of us who want to see this happen and are willing to get out and make sure that it does.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-waxman29nov29,1,3222804.story?
http://snipurl.com/k9bh
http://snipurl.com/k9bj
http://snipurl.com/g8tr

klamedia
December 4th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Depends on car and road.

If u have manual transmission so it will be hard to eat/drink at same time, just stop car at red light stop then eat/drink quickly until changes into green light. I do drink soda when driving on road with no problem.

This is silly.

klamedia
December 4th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Not so fast. Many legislative roadblocks have to be overcome before construction can begin. Besides the need to overturn the ban on construction under Wilshire, you also need to complete a study (usually takes a few years and a few hundred million dollars) and an EIR, at the very least. Also remember, there are still many opponents to subways in general in the L.A. area. Zev Yaroslavsky will be the first one in line. :D. However, with adequate political support, we should be able to see groundbreaking within ten years and completion within twenty years, so hopefully I will get to ride the line in my lifetime :).

Zev claims not to be against subways, in fact after the "gas leak" study was completed giving the green light to safely build a subway, he says he wants it built. He opposes local county funds to support it. Of course this makes it harder for it to be built and perhaps it's just a ploy on his part.
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/52/news-berkowitz.php#interview

But as far as the hurdles to cleared, they are many, but they always are, everywhere. I'm still waiting for the 2nd Ave line in NYC to be built. Been talked about for 50 years and continually opposed by the Upper Eastsiders at every turn.

soup or man
December 4th, 2005, 08:48 PM
I think that now we have the know how to build subways and a quick and safe rate. Plus with a million or so people living on the West Side with almost gridlocked streets/freeways, the Red Line West Side will sooner become a nessissity.

Fern~Fern*
December 5th, 2005, 12:32 AM
I think that now we have the know how to build subways and a quick and safe rate. Plus with a million or so people living on the West Side with almost gridlocked streets/freeways, the Red Line West Side will sooner become a nessissity.


right on the money, it will be something that everybody will benefit from. Your always going to have those who try to block it or file lawsuits. For those few it's not fair that everyone one in favor will be ass out. Once they see gridlock minimize then there going to be glad the Subway was extended.

Facial
December 5th, 2005, 02:35 AM
Depends on car and road.

If u have manual transmission so it will be hard to eat/drink at same time, just stop car at red light stop then eat/drink quickly until changes into green light. I do drink soda when driving on road with no problem.

Then, you should be a little more careful, comrade!

VansTripp
December 5th, 2005, 02:42 AM
This is silly.

All of thing that you mentioned is special, you maybe have body special and driving senstive. You don't understand what I do in car.

alex3000
December 5th, 2005, 03:32 AM
He has and he is its biggest supporter. He's a kick-ass mayor! He relentlessly mentions mass-transit when giving speeches and talks of LA growing vertically instead of horizontally. Defitnetly a blessing to this city!

Yep. I remember seeing him in an interview three months ago in the FOX 11 news. He was talking about how he wants to invest on public transportantion and he also wants the city the grow vertically. He mentioned Boston, Chicago, Phily and SanFran as examples.

LosAngelesSportsFan
December 5th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Not so fast. Many legislative roadblocks have to be overcome before construction can begin. Besides the need to overturn the ban on construction under Wilshire, you also need to complete a study (usually takes a few years and a few hundred million dollars) and an EIR, at the very least. Also remember, there are still many opponents to subways in general in the L.A. area. Zev Yaroslavsky will be the first one in line. :D. However, with adequate political support, we should be able to see groundbreaking within ten years and completion within twenty years, so hopefully I will get to ride the line in my lifetime :).


Well, a couple things are working in our favor now. Zev is actually for the red line down wilshire. also, Waxman will be lifting the ban Very Soon. Also, All the cities ont he projected bath,including beverly hills, are now in favor of extending the subway down wilshire. lastly, this new Bond being floated around by Arnold and the politicians in Sacramento will surley include money for local rail, and if it is the 50 -100 billion rumored, then local rail funding will be hooked up for a few lines, notably getting expo to Sant Monica, the Downtown Connector, Green Line to LAX, LAX to Union stationandt he Red line to westwood. i would not be shocked to have constructionin 5 years or less and to have the first leg to fairfax open by 2013 - 15.

LA-dude
December 5th, 2005, 09:35 AM
i want all these projects to get done but im not so sure about the state borrowing another 50 BILLION when we already have a deficit....wait till we actually have money...i mean c'mon

klamedia
December 5th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Well, a couple things are working in our favor now. Zev is actually for the red line down wilshire. also, Waxman will be lifting the ban Very Soon. Also, All the cities ont he projected bath,including beverly hills, are now in favor of extending the subway down wilshire. lastly, this new Bond being floated around by Arnold and the politicians in Sacramento will surley include money for local rail, and if it is the 50 -100 billion rumored, then local rail funding will be hooked up for a few lines, notably getting expo to Sant Monica, the Downtown Connector, Green Line to LAX, LAX to Union stationandt he Red line to westwood. i would not be shocked to have constructionin 5 years or less and to have the first leg to fairfax open by 2013 - 15.

Well we could put another tax on gas to pay for mass transit, i don't know if the voters will go for that, they might? But LASportsFan I do forsee a never-ending issue here in the City of Angels, I mean the County of Angels. All of these smaller municipalities are going to cry foul if LA tries to hog all of the money that the Governator would like to acquire. For instance, LA dude lives in Downey. Downey will say why are all the projects being built in LA particularly the westside when we need a light rail line to Downey. Before this money is issued I would like to see a Regional Authority come into power that is not controlled by the whims of these tiny suburbs that by the way have lots of political influence and money. I mean, Gold Line to Claremont?

And btw, you seem very active on this board. How do we get organized to overturn "Zevs Law", most people don't know it even exists. I can spare a few hours in the week to further that cause.

And as far as a deficit. I really don't care how much in debt we go to build an infrastructure that will protect LA's ranking in the world and the growing LA to Asia interchange. Trust, people will stop coming here if their are no hotels and they have to sit in traffic for 2 hours to go 5 miles.

This is an excellent article discussing the roadblocks that have existed(for decades) to the realization of a county wide rapid transit system.
http://laweekly.com/ink/05/39/features-berkowitz.php
(It's long but gives you the complete story.)

Palal
December 7th, 2005, 08:08 AM
I think that now we have the know how to build subways and a quick and safe rate. Plus with a million or so people living on the West Side with almost gridlocked streets/freeways, the Red Line West Side will sooner become a nessissity.

I think what we need is a standardized procedure to build subways, this way proprietary techonlogy is not used and costs are reduced. However, until transportation stops being a political issue, we won't see that.

Palal
December 7th, 2005, 08:10 AM
Well, a couple things are working in our favor now. Zev is actually for the red line down wilshire. also, Waxman will be lifting the ban Very Soon. Also, All the cities ont he projected bath,including beverly hills, are now in favor of extending the subway down wilshire. lastly, this new Bond being floated around by Arnold and the politicians in Sacramento will surley include money for local rail, and if it is the 50 -100 billion rumored, then local rail funding will be hooked up for a few lines, notably getting expo to Sant Monica, the Downtown Connector, Green Line to LAX, LAX to Union stationandt he Red line to westwood. i would not be shocked to have constructionin 5 years or less and to have the first leg to fairfax open by 2013 - 15.
100 bn? Hmm... I thought ArnUld wanted a FWY down central valley... don't think light rail is at the top of his list.

BTW. Since LAX expansion plan just went out the window, how likely is the Green Line to get extended to LAX? Also, what are the chances that we'll get one ride to downtown from LAX, because transferring at Rosa Parks Stn can sometimes be downright dangerous.

LosAngelesSportsFan
December 7th, 2005, 10:02 AM
well, LAX expansion did not get shelved, it just got capped at 75 million passangers. The green line extension was one of the items left on the proposition and that will get done, as its a priority and everyone wants it (cities, citizens, politicians). Also, the LAX to Union station is on the radar and would be fantastic, considering the fast growing pop of Downtown LA and the centralized Union station which has almost every Train Line coming into it.

Also, Klamedia, a very pressing need not only for LA and California, but the US a a whole, is getting massive improvments for the roads and rail out of the Ports. 45% of goods coming into the US go through those ports, and we have massive gridlock because of the trucks and the goods. We need the federal gov to kick in lots of money to fix the 710, the 5 the 405 and to extend the Alameda Corridor (Grade Separated) to the inland Empire and to have a dedicated truck route from the Ports to DTLA and to the Inland Empire and also to the Grapevine area (lots of Distribution centers there. We need this done and we need it fast!!

klamedia
December 7th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Now Palpal, don't go scaring everybody into thinking that the LAX plan was shelved. You know we all salivate profusely when we hear the words expansion, mixed use or 50+ stories. As LAsportsfan said, only a cap has been put on the airport, which could turn out to be to our benefit, we who love urbanity. As the other airports in the region offset LAX's load i.e. Long Beach, Burbank, perhaps they will also look into lessening congestion through the Blue Line and/or the proposed Yellow Line respectively.http://www.yellowline.org/ In turn strengthening our growing web of rail transit.

Palal
December 8th, 2005, 04:09 AM
Now Palpal, don't go scaring everybody into thinking that the LAX plan was shelved. You know we all salivate profusely when we hear the words expansion, mixed use or 50+ stories. As LAsportsfan said, only a cap has been put on the airport, which could turn out to be to our benefit, we who love urbanity. As the other airports in the region offset LAX's load i.e. Long Beach, Burbank, perhaps they will also look into lessening congestion through the Blue Line and/or the proposed Yellow Line respectively.http://www.yellowline.org/ In turn strengthening our growing web of rail transit.
it's Palal :).

Okay, this sounds a lot better than what I thought was going to happen.

BTW. If HSR gets built, then Ontario Airport will be closer to Union Station than LAX (time-wise).

Daortíz
December 8th, 2005, 06:02 AM
I hope they build that line with its terminus at Sunset and PCH right where I work!!
just figure I live in Eagle Rock and drive all the way over there everyday!
We need it.



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