View Full Version : Fast Lane, slow Lane or something in between


dallas
December 9th, 2005, 06:21 PM
I borrowed this thread from EDSG25 (thanks - hope you don't mind) from the US forum.

Anyway, I thought that this could be applied to Australian cities, capital or non capital, it doesn't matter.


Based on a car speedometer how would you judge the growth and direction that a city is heading in, or to paraphase EDSG25 "how much each city is pushing the accelerator."

So let's give ourselves the opportunity to do that right now.

It's really very simple. We track a city's speed of development, acquisition of future oriented economy, quality of life issues, and exciting urbanization using the following accelerator model (which maxes out at 100):

0 (at a standstill)_______50 (average growth)_______100 (Look out:full speed ahead!!)

positive growth should be measured by city's size and importance, comparing where it was, with where it is, and most importantly where it is going. In essence, the city's acelerator number is generated by looking at the city and seeing what is happening there. the comparison comes with other cities afterwords. Thus smaller Darwin could get a higher rate than larger Adelaide if you preceive Darwin is moving forward based on its current size and status faster than Adelaide is.

Using the above:
1. take any city (cities) you choose
2. give them an accelerator number
3. explain why you think it deserves that number for its rate of positive growth/change

So as an outsider looking in I would say:
Melbourne is at 90
It's has managed to lock in some fantastic growth, has instituted policies that make the city a more vibrant and interesting and has managed to rebound back from the dark days of the rust belt and state bank collapse in an impressive manner both in confidence and style.

Brisbane - 90
Along with Melbourne, Brisbane has been atrracting people and businesses northwards at a fair clip for two decades and although it still has plenty of room for growth in both size and maturity, from the news stories and the comments I've seen from other forumers it seems to be developing into quite a vibrant city.

Sydney - 70
I think Sydney will always grow as it is Australia's international city, and the one city in Australia that comes close to having that big city, organized chaos feel about it. It loses out to Brisbane and Melbourne because it doesn't seem to have the dynamic growth that they do and relies to much on the "we are the biggest, so they will come to us anyway" kind of attitude, but I don't think that will last forever though as there seems to be some stirrings on setting Syyney up for growth again both from the private and the public sectors.

Darwin - 70
For a small city, they seem to be working towards developing themselves into a very growth orientated city, hence the new apartment projects that have sprung up there in the past couple of years.

Perth - 65
The goverment and people on the whole these days seem to be a lot more introverted and reluctant to go for the big gamble and big growth projects these days (certainly compared to when I was a kid in the 80's), instead it's a case of let rely on resources to supply all our growth and not diversify, and lets not change anything too much, lest we rock the boat. It still grows and attracts people but the old state of excitement days when it felt like WA was going somewhere are well and truely over until there is a new goverment with some vision.

Adelaide - 60
Sorry, I don't know a lot about how Adelaide's been performing, so please don't take offence, but it still seems to suffer from the stuck in the middle syndrome and although I've always enjoyed visiting, it has never been able to hit the accelerator hard because of a) where it's located, b) the resource base is not as big as WA and c) it's always been perceived as the city of churches, and a kind of quite place.

Canberra - 50
Some new projects and and some population growth seems to keep Canberra at a sedate 50, nothing exciting really going on in the nation's caplital.

Hobart - 30
No new projects, the city hasn't really grown or diversified and minimal population growth. Not a whole lot going on in the great scheme of things.


As I said, feel free to disagree or set me straight where you think I've gone wrong (and set your own speeds for your city). To kick it off I did the all the capitals, but feel free to add in any city in Australia.

Malt
December 9th, 2005, 06:32 PM
Id probably put Adelaide down with Hobart, just below Canberra (For growth)

AG
December 9th, 2005, 10:28 PM
I'd actually agree with 60 for Adelaide. The are quite a lot of small and medium sized projects occurring around the city but only a handful of significantly sized projects (not neccessarily skyscrapers), definetely far more than in Canberra. But the population growth is sluggish and pretty measly relative to other cities.

I'd put Perth a little bit higher at 75 considering the amount of infrastructure projects that are under way or on the drawing board.

I agree with all the others.

Ipggi
December 10th, 2005, 01:29 AM
As a person who has lived in Perth for 15 years and is now living in inner Sydney I don't know how you could say there is only 5 points difference. In Sydney there has always been continous and large developments. In the CBD, the suburbs or on infrastructure etc and has been ever since I have moved here.

Just the feel and scope of the two are completely different.. Sydney (specially in summer) feels like Australia's world city, party city and a show case. I'm not touting it to rub in the face of other cities (I hate those pointless my cities better then yours arguements).. I just feel when I go back to Perth every year it still feels like a city thats waiting for something big to happen. Which is funny because its currently on the back of an economic boom. So i'll hate to see what happens when that dies off.

I guess these forums (and people in general) just accept new big projects and infrastructure in Sydney for granted. Just look at the newly opened $1.5 billion M7 orbital freeway or the recent Fosters and Partners, 126 Phillip Street. If these were built in Perth for example they would be the complete focus and discussion point of the city, yet in Sydney they hardly raise an eyebrow.

So 5 points difference (and 10 to Adelaide) to me seems a little short changed.

And what about the Goldcoast? :P

JayT
December 10th, 2005, 01:44 AM
Gold Coast - 110kmph. Life on the freeway - GC is moving and changing very rapidly.

Brisbane - 95kmph - Simply Booming and ever changing for the better.

Perth 90kmph - Booming, changing - going gangbusters!!

Melbourne - 85kmph - Stop, Go traffic - but gettng somewhere.

Sydney - 75kmph - Stop - Slow traffic, but still moving

Adelaide - 60kmph - Suburban road speed, though going along nicely.

Wilko
December 10th, 2005, 02:40 AM
^^ Melbourne has been moving very fast JayT, even I'm supprised how the city and some suburban areas have changed in such a short time and I live here. I would put Melbourne up equal with the Gold Coast.

Citystyle
December 10th, 2005, 03:19 AM
WA is spending more on the people than in the past. We have 40 Billion dollars going into the NW, we are pushing TOD further than any other australian city. Though we are yet to see the direct influence of the resource boom in the city yet, perth is forcasting strong and consistant growth in both property and ecomomy that will outstip the rest of the nation.

We have huge urban renewl projects underway and some larger ones in planning. Were we went in the 80's is nothing in comparison to were we are going today. The Skyscrapers are yet to come up big deal if your talking about the fast lane WA has the large infalstructure and population growth and that is were the city is going places, we are diversifying our industry slowly but that comes with population growth.

Perth is changing and has changed at street level from across the river less so, but that comes in time. As for melbourne it's growth has been supported by government somthing 90's liberal government's did not do here, melbourne has pulled it'self out of the hole it was in the 70's and know given it'self international stages to showcase it'self. But is hot and cold and needs strong property to maintain growth sydney does not and it's city and skyline will out grow the rest of australian citys without much hassel.

I would put Perth behind brisbane.

christarrant
December 10th, 2005, 03:35 AM
I think Jayt's points spread is about spot on. Bris and Perth are the economic boom cities right now - growing much faster than Melb ( and definately Syd ) in the majority of economic indicator's for several years now.
Perth's once in a generation resources boom looks like it will continue for another couple years yet too.

Locke
December 10th, 2005, 04:19 AM
Gold Coast is doing 170 swerving from lane to lane with two cop cars chasing after it. I mean just on skyline, pick any other city is Australia that is currently getting 4 or 5 new tallest buildings, relatively speaking, it is going off.

Brisbane is next at 90, then Melbourne at say 80 (but losing speed of late), then Sydney cruising at 65 then Perth doing 40-50 and Adelaide finally moving at 25 kays, which for Adelaide is pretty quick considerng the engine was broke before:P

Citystyle
December 10th, 2005, 08:03 AM
Melbounes boom is over for a few years. 70km/h

Sydney never stops in a class of itself. 80km/h

Brisbane got another good 5 years ahead of itself. 100km/h

Adelaide is starting to get going again. 55km/h

Darwin has started. 50km/h

Perth is ready to boom again. 85km/h

Macca-GC
December 12th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Gold Coast: Naturally speeding on Cruise Control at 125Km/h. Meh, who needs planning restrictionns anyway right???
Brisbane: 100Km/h and just starting to clear through the heavy traffic
Melbourne:80Km/h and slowing, considering that the arterial roads might be faster than the freeway
Darwin:75Km/h and accelerating, just part way onto the onramp for its first drive on the motorway and ready to floor it.
Perth:70Km/h and slowly accelerating. There's plenty of petrol, but might want to check the battery. It's annoying without a radio.
Sydney:60Km/h and slowly decelerating. The exhaust has been clogged, need to pull over and fix the problem fast.
Adelaide:55Km/h and slowly accelerating. Only just got its 'P's and not really confident it wants to go on the motorway. They'll just spend twice as much time in traffic at the intersection of Main North Rd and Grand Juction Rd @ Gepps Cross. Damn it, what's that smell? Diesel. Must change over to an electric car.

KJBrissy
January 30th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Gold Coast: Naturally speeding on Cruise Control at 125Km/h. Meh, who needs planning restrictionns anyway right???
Brisbane: 100Km/h and just starting to clear through the heavy traffic
Melbourne:80Km/h and slowing, considering that the arterial roads might be faster than the freeway
Darwin:75Km/h and accelerating, just part way onto the onramp for its first drive on the motorway and ready to floor it.
Perth:70Km/h and slowly accelerating. There's plenty of petrol, but might want to check the battery. It's annoying without a radio.
Sydney:60Km/h and slowly decelerating. The exhaust has been clogged, need to pull over and fix the problem fast.
Adelaide:55Km/h and slowly accelerating. Only just got its 'P's and not really confident it wants to go on the motorway. They'll just spend twice as much time in traffic at the intersection of Main North Rd and Grand Juction Rd @ Gepps Cross. Damn it, what's that smell? Diesel. Must change over to an electric car.

100% agree,

I believe Melbourne is just relying on it's population to spread across its developments, whereas Brisbane, Perth and the Gold Coast don't have that luxury and still have large developments growing at an ever increasing rate. If Brisbane's height limit was unlimited now I'm sure Vision and Empire Square would be taller.

Avatar
January 31st, 2006, 03:07 AM
Sydney is more like a massive bus as it continues to motor on at about 70km/h speed, not quite as fast as Brisbane, GC, and Melbourne, but when it gets to build up of traffic it contines - bursting through the patchy bits under its own weight and powerful engines. Its like a terminator bus - one that just keeps going in a very methodical manner. Cruise control comes to mind.

Lets hope someone wacks a few turbos and superchargers on the bus soon or maybe some wings and a rocket booster. We need to start accelerating.

CULWULLA
January 31st, 2006, 04:41 AM
Sydney is so big it should include the nearby CBDs as part of its area, such as nth syd,st leos,chatswood,redfern and bondi!
So growth is always booming at warp speed !!
never a dull period

Citystyle
January 31st, 2006, 09:14 AM
Anyone want to re-state there veiw of perth. Last chance.

Macca-GC
January 31st, 2006, 09:25 AM
Perth went into Bob Jane's and got a new battery. Just trying to get up to 75Km/h now.

invincible
January 31st, 2006, 11:21 AM
Sydney is more like a massive bus as it continues to motor on at about 70km/h speed, not quite as fast as Brisbane, GC, and Melbourne, but when it gets to build up of traffic it contines - bursting through the patchy bits under its own weight and powerful engines. Its like a terminator bus - one that just keeps going in a very methodical manner. Cruise control comes to mind.

But you know what they say about buses... wait half an hour and then two of them come at the same time.

Wezza
January 31st, 2006, 01:26 PM
Anyone want to re-state there veiw of perth. Last chance.
I've heard had Perth dropped into West Coast Customs to get pimped up a bit!! ;)