Apologies if someone's done this allready, but I can't find it...

£550m plan to transform city Dec 12 2005




By Mail Reporter


SEVEN thousand jobs are set to be created by the construction of Martineau Galleries in the next phase of the regeneration of Birmingham city centre.

The Birmingham Alliance, the joint venture organisation responsible for the hugely successful Bullring shopping centre, is submitting its long-awaited outline planning application for the £550 million scheme to city planners.

If approved, the scheme will become a catalyst for the ongoing regeneration of the east side of the city, transforming a 13.5-acre site between Corporation Street, Masshouse, High Street, Moor Street Queensway and the Priory Queensway.

Martineau Galleries is expected to create as many as 2,000 construction jobs, plus another 5,000 jobs in the scheme itself. It is expected to be completed by 2011.

The Birmingham Alliance, which comprises Hammerson, Henderson Global Investors and Land Securities Group, says the scheme will include a mix of offices, residential and leisure space.


There will be up to 645,600 sq ft of lettable retail space together with underground car parking. It will be landscaped to include airy, open streets and squares and benefit from public spaces and public art.


Bob de Barr, development director for the Birmingham Alliance, said: "Our planning application is being submitted just weeks after Birmingham received the European City of the Future Award.


"We believe that our plans for Martineau Galleries endorse that award and are a natural next step for the ongoing regeneration of this visionary city."


When finished, Martineau Galleries will help complete the redevelopment of the east side of Birmingham city centre.

For those of you who haven't seen a copy of the post there are in fact two renderings. One is a street level colour sketch taken looking toward McDonalds from High Street although McDonalds has been demolished in the pciture and is replaced by an eighties looking rather angular shopping centre.

The second image shows a smaller balck & white sketch aerial view. This shows two stepped towers with sloping tops. Sort of like slicing through both Sentinals to create a single slope. I don't think we are looking at a skyscraper instead it looks a little shorter than the Rotunda which is also in the sketch.

The site is broken into a series of city blocks, which is an improvement but overall the renderings are disapointing not least because they don't give much of an overall impression of the quality of design to expect.

well go on guys and gals...get a rendering

anyone got the paper and a scanner?

..........and the answer better be yes

Press release but no image:http://www.landsecurities.co.uk/websitefiles/Martineau_Galleries_outline_planning_Dec_05.pdf

If no ones has the paper who's going to ring them up for an image tomorrow?

If no ones has the paper who's going to ring them up for an image tomorrow?

I nominate you for this. You seem to know what you are talking about. :)

A SUBMISSION FOR UTLINE PLANNING OF THE SCHEME HAS BEEN RECIEVED BY THE COUNCIL!!!

Good News - also the sloping effect sounds good and a little different especially with quite a few boxes at Masshouse and City Park Gate.

i've got a sacnner and can get the picture for you guys this evening??? is it todays post or yesterdays, as i need to take it from the library

i've got a sacnner and can get the picture for you guys this evening??? is it todays post or yesterdays, as i need to take it from the library

Yay, the crowds are clamouring for it. Its in yesterdays i.e. Mondays isnt it???

Happy now?

http://************/ilcb2s.jpg

http://************/ilc9ko.jpg

okay you beat me to it

i like it!!!, hopefully it wonty look cheap like the shopping centres in the centre of coventry

i was hopeing taht ugly building with the brown things on it , would go as well

A SUBMISSION FOR UTLINE PLANNING OF THE SCHEME HAS BEEN RECIEVED BY THE COUNCIL!!!

could explain what this means excatly

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Thanks for the images and the photos.An area that really needs a change.I remember the renderings and plans from a few years ago;the latest plans look a lot better.

I like, Ill have to see some more advanced renders but it looks healthy. a few more healthy towers, they look roughly 80m and 60m respectively.

So now we have ...

City Park Gate Tower 1 = 100m
City Park Gate Tower 2 = 60m
Martineau Galleries Tower 1 = 80m
Martineau Galleries Tower 2 = 60m
Mclaren Building = 70m
Masshouse Res 1 = 50m
Masshouse Res 2 = 60m
Masshouse Offices = 50-75m x 5
Rotunda = 80m

Theres 13 tower/blocks here in a small area, that we could see being refurbished and U/C during 2006. quite something

Doesn't the existing Priory Sq shopping centre look so out of place now. It's so low rise (1or2 stories) looks like a town centre shopping centre not something you would expect in a major european city. Can't stand the place.

Does anybody know any history of Priory Sq, when built etc?

Sad loss of Toys R Us. Many great memories of dragging my mum in there when i was a kid. Awful building though.

What's happening bout the Carling Academy? Best live music venue in Brum.

Priory Sq shopping centre look so out of place now. It's so low rise (1or2 stories) looks like a town centre shopping centre not something you would expect in a major european city. Can't stand the place.

Looks like Bagdad, Teheran, nothing to do in a world class European City

so that road is goona remain accroding to those renders it should be paved over to provide better acess

so that road is goona remain accroding to those renders it should be paved over to provide better acess

Looks like a major pedestrian route will be to branch to the right by the slopey building which will lead you nicely down towards eastside. I think it looks excellent as was said its a series of dense city blocks so it should look more established and not like one massive shopping centre which we already have, great though it is 2 would be wrong.

Well the good news is that it's NOT another shopping mall - but rather a development more along the lines of Brindleyplace. Hurrah.

The bad news is the loss of two important Birmingham institutions: The Academy, and The Oasis. I don't really frequent the latter but at the same time I recognise it's important that it exists.

Has anyone seen what this area was like before the war? It'd break your heart....

Looks like a major pedestrian route will be to branch to the right by the slopey building which will lead you nicely down towards eastside. I think it looks excellent as was said its a series of dense city blocks so it should look more established and not like one massive shopping centre which we already have, great though it is 2 would be wrong.

Can't quite make it out but are they opening up Albert St by demolishing MaccyD's so relinking it to the High St and allowing people to walk easily down to Eastside - there's just a narrow passage now but there was a proper link before they built the building McDonalds is in.

I would love to see a render of the other side looking down from the big "snow and rock" roundabout down into eastside. At the moment the road looks great but its got too few buildings down in eastside and the backend of priory shopping centre as frontage. Has anyone got a photo of that view as it is currently?

there's just a narrow passage now but there was a proper link before they built the building McDonalds is in.

Isnt the macdonalds building relatively new, like late 80's or somat? Obviously it has to go as thiw will be the main entrance to the new development from town so needs to be more imposing.

Has anyone seen what this area was like before the war? It'd break your heart....


No- please provid elinks if you have them.

Regardign the Academy I htink the counicl will try to make sure there is a replacment.

reagrding the Oasis my thoughts are the same as yours. ihink its inevitabel though - that sort of place just doenst fit inot a prime site anyre given the Uk presnet day wealth. Hopefully somewhere not too far away will becom just as interesting.

It certianly wont be a big a loss as the Corn exchange was for manchester and I woul hope the replacement will be more distinctive and less bland than the triangle.

From what I understand the road that you cross from the Academy to Toys R Us will be closed to traffic and the new building will cross it. The traffic will flow around the new complex (either up toward Square Peg or round the back of McD's - this should improve traffic flow as it gets rid of a few fiddly junctions.

Oasis is going but presonally I don't mind - there will still be a demand so it will be a case of displacement surely? Maybe to somewhere near Selfridges/the Markets or in Digbeth?

The tenants are likely to be lifestyle stores, gym, museum/gallery, hotel, apartments.

The Academy owners will also be looking for a new home at this stage - it will be interesting to see where they will move! Looking at the way music is held in this city it wouldn't surprise me if they end up in the Sanctuary :)

Blimey i can't believe how big this scheme could end up being, although i have a few doudts over the size of the development, from that black and white drawing the buildings seem to be squashed together does the development need this much when the retail element seems to be less that 25% of the entire scheme now, this could have knock-on effects for mixed use developments around Martineu Galleries, Like the Rough Diamond project at Ludgate, the figures quoted seem too be really ambitious.

"Rough Diamond project at Ludgate"

well that project many of us believe will never happnen anyhow

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Did you take those shots today Foxtrot ?. If so, we might of just missed each other. I was actually on the Toys'R'Us building getting a few snaps. The top level of the car-park is always desolate other than a few skate-boarders so you can shoot away without disturbance.

I must admit that i think there is something about the building, you will struggle to find another car-park of that era that actually looks like an architect might of worked on it.If only they had not used brown brick :bash:

CH

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/ToysRUs-1.jpg

I like the way the offices "float" over the car-park.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/ToysRUs-Roof.jpg

That's strange CargoHold, I was passing by Toys'r'us on the bus the other week, thinking about Martineau Galleries and looking at what's there at the moment. I cast my eye over the building for the first time, actually taking note of the architecture, and realised the building isn't as ugly as I had thought.
I like the terraced car park levels, the curved walls and even the main office block. It is a pity it was built in brown brick and that the concrete support pillars under the main office block were not worked into the building itself but left exposed.
The only bit I hate is the two-storey office 'block' above the top floor of the car park. It looks like somebody had some bricks left over and built that as an afterthought.

I hate all of it- especilly the view from Moor Street. The car ramp is hdeous.

That's strange CargoHold, I was passing by Toys'r'us on the bus the other week, thinking about Martineau Galleries and looking at what's there at the moment. I cast my eye over the building for the first time, actually taking note of the architecture, and realised the building isn't as ugly as I had thought.
I like the terraced car park levels, the curved walls and even the main office block. It is a pity it was built in brown brick and that the concrete support pillars under the main office block were not worked into the building itself but left exposed.
The only bit I hate is the two-storey office 'block' above the top floor of the car park. It looks like somebody had some bricks left over and built that as an afterthought.

Thanks Steve-e-b, i was starting to think that i was going a little strange for "appreciating" the building.

I don't mind the concrete supports and i actually like the idea of the 2 storey bit on top, Think of it like this: Convert the 2 floors into 6 large 2 storey apartments with parking spaces under the structure and landscape the rest of the top car-park as communal gardens.

In reality it has to go, but i do think it is not the monstrosity most people perceive it to be.

Curves and Terrace's
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/ToysRUs-curves.jpg

CH

I hate all of it- especilly the view from Moor Street. The car ramp is hdeous.

I have to agree with the ramp bit, why oh why was it built like that ?, all it has done is create that huge wasteland which has never helped it's case.

CH

Did you take those shots today Foxtrot ?
no, they were from xmas eve i'm afraid

Courtesy of BCC, RTKL (with thanks to Spread)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/MartineauGalleriesIndicMasterplan.jpg

Thanks for that, but cant make any of that out really - what do the heights say on top, anyone got really good vision ;)

110m for the tower I think - not to be sniffed at (http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/PSR/control/getrelateddocument?txt_PSR_Application_Number=C%2F07564%2F05%2FOUT&OBJECT_ID=0901487a801938c5&DOCUMENT_TYPE=Plans+%26+Drawings&DOCUMENT_SUBTYPE=Application+Plans&DOCUMENT_NAME=Indicative+Master+Plan+A10.03).

I like the current Priory Square building (great pics BTW, submersible one). It does have a bit of the flavour of a souk about it but is the better for it IMO. Birmingham needs to avoid thinking that "upmarket" and "good" are the same thing and destroying some of the grittier stuff that gives it a bit of character, and Priory Square manages to be downmarket without being simply shit in a way that's pretty unique in the city centre.

That said, that masterplan looks both sensitive and imaginative - a trillion times better than the old one. Isn't there a Victorian warehouse left facing onto Albert street, though? It's a pity they don't make a bit more of that - it looks like it's just plonked next to the car park entrance, which is a bit of a waste IMO.

110m? You sure :runaway:

Courtesy of BCC, RTKL (with thanks to Spread)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/MartineauGalleriesIndicMasterplan.jpg

Looks like 110m,11m,45m,24m,20m,25m and 48m. Pretty dense stuff.

Oh thats great news, we needed something just over 100m - and this located right next to Masshouse and City Park Gate (90-100m) this, area should look pretty spectacular.

Very happy about that :)

^^I thought you might like that BC :)

A word of warning - this is only an indicative plan and the developer has gone for outline planning permission. As far as I know the hotel operator has not yet been signed-up so I suspect the tower will be a "max height" rather than definite.

That said, from what I know the building arrangement will not change too much and there are plans for 2 towers (one taller, one mid) so it's all good!

It is interesting that they are closing off the bottom end of the High St and reconfiguring it. It should make for a more interesting pedestrian experience. :)

He He, any tower news is good news for me, Im already crossed of one of my predictions for 2006. only need another 3 towers proposed over 100m now ;)

Got me render blood going to.

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/561/worcs141di.png

Looks like 110m,11m,45m,24m,20m,25m and 48m. Pretty dense stuff.

I'm a little confused by this. Are we sure these are the building hights.
Building number 2 is supposedly 11m high then?

But it looks the same hight on this sketch and 11m is awfully short for a building in this location..


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i hate the way the existing priory square doesn't sit up opposit the lewis' builing (The Square Peg pub) to mirror it in a simialr hight.

Building number 2 is supposedly 11m high then?


That's how I read it, my eyesights hardly perfect though.

I'm a little confused by this. Are we sure these are the building hights.
Building number 2 is supposedly 11m high then?

But it looks the same hight on this sketch and 11m is awfully short for a building in this location..

i hate the way the existing priory square doesn't sit up opposit the lewis' builing (The Square Peg pub) to mirror it in a simialr hight.

Building 2 is just over 44m according to this - that would make it around 11 floors - a shade taller than Lewis's?

I'm not sure the significance of two numbers, but they are as follows:

1. 167.60m (44.90m)
2. 176.6m (44.54m)
3. 239.00m (110.0m)
4. 165.1m (45.80m)
5. 156.13m (28.50m)
6. 156.13m (29.50m)
7. 143.60m (24.00m)

Make of it what you will. The pdf is available from the BCC website.
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/PSR/control/getrelateddocument?txt_PSR_Application_Number=C%2F07564%2F05%2FOUT&OBJECT_ID=0901487a801938c5&DOCUMENT_TYPE=Plans+%26+Drawings&DOCUMENT_SUBTYPE=Application+Plans&DOCUMENT_NAME=Indicative+Master+Plan+A10.03

NB: I needed to change the extension to .pdf
Loads of other docs here too:
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=67548&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=12189

Thanks for that Doyle - that's where I got the image from. There's loads of stuff on the new portal (as pointed out by Spread) including environmental and traffic surveys.

The two figures represent height above sea level and (height relative to local datum).

As caw said - this is a pretty dense area! It should match the Rackhams and Lewis's buildings in terms of size and proportion - with one exception - a tower taller than the Rotunda :) :cheers1:

I'm not sure the significance of two numbers, but they are as follows:

1. 167.60m (44.90m)
2. 176.6m (44.54m)
3. 239.00m (110.0m)
4. 165.1m (45.80m)
5. 156.13m (28.50m)
6. 156.13m (29.50m)
7. 143.60m (24.00m)



The higher numbers are ASL/AOD heights. 239m is just below the CAA limit.

It just occurred to me the number of "grandes projets" we have coming on-line.

2 over £500m (QE Hospital & Martineau Galleries, and a possible 3rd with Arena Central)
3 over £300m (New St Stn, Selly Oak Battery Park, Snowhill, and a possible 4th with the library)
5 over £100m (Cube, Masshouse, City Park Gate, Tally Ho!, Longbridge)

:)

I'm not sure the significance of two numbers, but they are as follows:

1. 167.60m (44.90m)
2. 176.6m (44.54m)
3. 239.00m (110.0m)
4. 165.1m (45.80m)
5. 156.13m (28.50m)
6. 156.13m (29.50m)
7. 143.60m (24.00m)


Good i'm glad it says 44 not 11. Think they could've provided a better quality pic so we could've seen that.

110m is quite tall. Half way between Orion and HCT, and on higher ground than HCT so it will look really good on the skyline from the south/Digbeth... assuming it's a good building.

Nice illustration but i would have thought the buildings would have been bigger given that the development is to be around the 2.9 million sq ft mark, thats makes it bigger than Arena Central and look at what we could get there. The development is nearly as big as Paradise Circus and the illustrative masterplan for that showed a couple of 100m towers and one around 60m plus several other buildings.

I would have thought there would be more towers in this, hopefully that will be the case.

is there ANY chance demolition work will start this year??

^^Best way to check is to see how far ahead The Academy are taking bookings. When they stop then we'll start!

I guess early 2007 minimum - they have only just applied for outline PP - this is the crunch time. If it is granted then they can start designing the buildings :)

anyone know whats happening to the academy? birmingham has far too few gig venues for a city its size as it is and the academy is the only medium sized one.

i was thinking the town hall which used to have gigs in the 70s but i doubt it - i reckon it'll be used for more 'highbrow' things. an old warehouse in digbeth would be really good cos it's already seen as an alternative place what with the custard factory/med bar, barfly, sanctuary, irish centre and the rainbow.

I'm semi-impressed, semi-disappointed, and semi-unsurprised (and no, I'm not one and a half people).

I'm glad that finally the eastern side of Old Square would be getting some height back (and you *would* cry if you saw the wonderful Second Empire style Opera House that used to close in the eastern edge). But the shape is so dull - Priory Qway is left widening gradually into the square, with the new building neither defining the line of Corp St (as the original did), nor mirroring the curve of Lewis's.

The spacing of buildings 2, 3, and 4 is somewhat unoriginal. The passage between 2 and 3 follows the current version slavishly, neither providing a mirror to the Minories and heading into Old Square, nor aligning with the re-extended Dalton Street.

Building 6 would finally kill off what's left of Albert Street. I was hoping from earlier indications in this thread that McDonalds would go and the great Curzon Street - Duddeston Row - Albert Street axis re-opened through to High Street, firmly linking Eastside back into town. Because of the half-backsided half-redevelopment of Martineau Square, we had little hope of getting the Martineau Street end of the axis back (and I am unsurprised at the failure to list this block for dynamiting, but I am concerned it will make Corporation Street and areas west somewhat out-on-a-limb, and that they may consequently go to hell). But anyway, between what Moor Street's looking like and the positioning of Building 6, Albert Street will end up being a glorified service entrance.

I am also unimpressed by the totally randomly shaped space left at the High St / Dale End / Bull St / Albert St. With more care, this could have been a segment of a circle, with routes radiating off it, serving as something more of a place rather than another street-corner.

But that's enough whinging. I *love* the curve at the Corp St end of Building 1 - the way it's almost leaping across at Upper Bull Street almost makes up for the loss of Martineau St. The small squares in the middle also are just perfect.

It's now getting way too late, but I'll draw up a modified plan of "how I'd do it better" (which is only fair given my ability to be a carping critic) over the next few days, and someone mentioned earlier that they hadn't seen pictures of old Birmingham - I may have a day with my scanner tomorrow.

well i cant view that pdf. i get the error - "file does not begin with pdf". how many floors are there for each building?

ive been looking for ages and i cant find a number.

using our rules it could be anything between 26 storeys (office) and 36 storeys (residential)

Its hotel and residential isnt it? which would make the 4th tallest residential tower in the city if all go's to plan.

Well, I don't know if this is significant or not, but walking past the Toys r us building the otehr day and there was a closing down sale sign there....as it is closing before end of this month...does this mean at least that this hideous building is finally gonna bite the dust?!

oh for the love of god please!!!!!!!!!!!!

wonder if they will relocate some where else

man i loved that place when i were a nipper!!

^^Me too. The Dixons XL store in the Bullring is going (if it hasn't already) so it could go there maybe? It might be more profitable to carve it into smaller stores.

The Academy have got concerts scheduled for a while yet so that building won't be going just yet...

Yes Jam35, agree with you certainly about the old Opera house, and also your comments re. McD's. That route of Curzon street through to High street was an opportunity to reinstate a very useful connection from the city to the new Eastside. I also share your concerns re. Corporation street, though generally have found the original concept of MG very exciting.

That masterplan is only a rough guide, there going to be a lot of changes before anything gets built, something of this size means there will be several alterations and rethinks along the way.

I just hope they make a much better effort than parts of Martineu place which are quite frankly awful.

thats my worry too ^^^ as its the same people

same developer, different architect

Courtesy of BCC, RTKL (with thanks to Spread)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/MartineauGalleriesIndicMasterplan.jpg


Am I being thick here- what happens do dale End? is it just ended at the bridge?

I'm thinking that it carries on as an access road underneath the development possibly linking up with the Albert St access.. that would be logical.. similar to the road under the Bullring, otherwise it could be stand alone access to the north end of the development but not linking through.

I think this is the sort of detail that would only be at the proposed state so far and so would be subject to change until full planning permision is given.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/MartineauGalleriesIndicMasterplan.jpg

the sun sets south in Birmingham ? ;)

thats my worry too ^^^ as its the same people

Also same developer as the Bullring :)

Am I being thick here- what happens do dale End? is it just ended at the bridge?

Maybe the road that feeds Albert St continues under the development? I suspect this road & Dale End are going to be the entrances to a new underground car park....

it would seemt hat it will be the enterance to an underground car park

i cant believe that some of you dislike martineau square....... what was there before and thinking of all the limited options that could be done with the site, then im well impressed lol

the sun sets south in Birmingham ? ;)

Yes it does tend to do that in the northern hemisphere.

Dale end access is north east more than north i've decided..

The BCC site has a planning (issues) report which gives some comments on the scheme. One snippet is that the proposed tower is only 3.0m below the BHX height limit. An interesting read:
http://80.86.36.120/vault/XDDocStore_4/0135475_Issues%20Report%20Martineau%20Galleries.pdf

WELL IS SAYS THAT A NEW CINEMA IS PLANNED AS IS A CASINO AND THAT THE ACADEMY WILL BE MOVING FOR SURE

ALSO SAYS THAT CITY PARK GATE WILL HAVE A 23 STOREY TOWER

well we knew that anyway.....I TOLD YOU!!!!!

anyway, there u go, MG tower is 29 floors

if the academy is going, could they relocate to the central methodist hall instead? needs some money spending but that's what i'd do

Good work Pirlo!

Foxtrot - the Methodist Hall is being converted into apartments I think.

Tha Sanctuary would be OK - maybe a bit confined.

I am sure there's some big old warehouse in Digbeth or Gun Quarter which would do the trick :)

On Block 7, the proposed cultural facility ("the precise nature of which is yet to be defined"), it says: "it is anticipated that the building would have iconic architectural status". excellent :)

... though of course I hope that is iconic in a good way!

Coverage in today's Post:

from
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/page.cfm?objectid=16602366&method=full&siteid=50002


£550m city shopping complex unveiled

Jan 19 2006

By Neil Elkes, Birmingham Mail

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icbirmingham/jan2006/6/6/000AE60C-7177-13CF-98450C01AC1BF814.jpg

THIS is how the exciting £550 million city centre shopping and leisure complex planned for the Martineau Galleries will look.

The Birmingham Alliance, the people behind the Bullring, is to transform the estate, which currently includes the Oasis, Toys R Us, Argos and the Academy nightclub.

An outline planning application has been submitted for the conversion of the 13-and-a-half acre Priory Square site between Corporation Street and Moor Street Queensway. If approved, it is earmarked for completion in 2011.

The first steps were taken last week with the announcement that Virgin is to close its Corporation Street megastore on January 28.

It will soon be followed by Toys R Us, due to the imminent unveiling of a new Birmingham store.

And further shops in the complex, which includes a well-known outdoor market, will close over the next two years ready for demolition and construction work to begin in 2008.

A spokeswoman said: "Toys R Us has found new premises elsewhere and that space is available on a short term lease."

Two much-loved Birmingham institutions, the Oasis indoor fashion market and the Academy nightclub will be forced to relocate when the bulldozers move in.

"The Birmingham Alliance is also offering assistance to The Academy in a search for new premises elsewhere in the city, if they require it," the spokeswoman added.

Birmingham Alliance director Jon Emery said the development, called the Martineau Galleries, will link the Eastside regeneration area to the city centre.

He said: "The positive impact of Bullring on Birmingham is immense - since its opening, the City has leapt from being the 13th most important retail centre in the UK to third.

"The Alliance's involvement has played a key role in Birmingham's renaissance, which will continue into the next decade with the development of Martineau Galleries."


From this I gather then that The Academy will definitely be located outside of MG and that the cultural venue will be something else - this is good!

"It will soon be followed by Toys R Us, due to the imminent unveiling of a new Birmingham store."

wonder where there moving too???

"when the bulldozers move in."

summer 2006!!!!!!!!!!! yeah!!!!!!!

over the next 2 years.......IF approved....its not going to be happening just yet!

you never know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only 2 places I can think of if the move is imminent and that's the Bull ring where Dixons was (think this was mentioned earlier) or Beaties - would this site be too big ?or could they get creative with that extra room and create and a great Toy shopping experience. Or am I just over tired ?

Will we be the only city not to have any decent size office towers ;)

apart from Alpha at 100m all our other significant towers are all residential.

AC
BST
HCT
MG
NS 1
NS 2
PARK CENTRAL
CPG

when are our office towers gonna come in something significantly tall? :dunno: Im all for all these towers being residential, but I cant help thinking that we need to vary the uses of our towers within the city.



Masshouse 75m, Peat House 59m, Post and Mail 60m dont really do it.

well office towers are ALOT more risky..... only london in the country has so far built office towers....... and the only one outsid london is 1 hardman sq in manc...and thats the only one i cant hihg of out or all there proposals

This project is really started to get me excited!

2011 is only 5 years time (although it seems longer),

Which means there could be work begining in the next 18 months id guess.

wow, omg, look at all those stunning skyscrapers in the pic!

wow, omg, look at all those stunning skyscrapers in the pic!

Sarcasm ;)

Dude, a 110m tower is very sizeable for here, remember Woody thought nothin over 70m would be constructed. Its a positive.

i was going to ask if that was aarsm on ghostdogs behalf considering that there is a 110m tower in the pic.....

amyway, yes, i am supprised anything over 70m was built...mclaren was MEANT to be the max hight

i was going to ask if that was aarsm on ghostdogs behalf considering that there is a 110m tower in the pic.....

amyway, yes, i am supprised anything over 70m was built...mclaren was MEANT to be the max hight

Even City Park Gate has trumped it ;)

May I ask Woody but where all these articles you promised us ;) havent seen that many on SSN

Is that litle stumpy thing in the pic meant to be 110m. OK maybe it's the aspect ratio thats confusing. That's not too bad a height I guess, for us Brummies anyway.

I suppose I need to remind myself of that Father Ted episode, that cow's small and that cow's far away....

Good news about the tower;I was expecting anything over 70m.Interesting to see that it's only 3m under the maximum height allowed at the moment.Would they have pushed for more floors if not?

That Post and Mail image, which direction are we looking at MG from?

That Post and Mail image, which direction are we looking at MG from?

from the back I think

BC, do you mean bottom of Bull street?

The picture is looking up High Street with the Bullring behind you.

Jolon, thanks for that.

over the next 2 years.......IF approved....its not going to be happening just yet!

SOMETHING will happen here, and let's face it - it wil only be tinkering with the design - lower/raising levels, changing uses, facades etc. I can't imagine too much will change to be honest.

Of course Fat Prezza might stick his oar in, but I think this satisfies ODPM requirements.

Btw - I wonder whether the cultural use could be a museum ;) ;)

The picture is looking up High Street with the Bullring behind you.

Yeah - more or less standing outside Boots looking towards the Academy...

Btw - I wonder whether the cultural use could be a museum ;) ;)
Is that a knowing wink Bio, or just a common-sense-induced-suggestion wink?
Either way it's a bloomin good idea, we could do with a National ... Museum in the centre of Brum. Especially when we've got so much hertiage on which to found one.

It's a wink ;) Steve ;)

It would have to house something that Brum is famous for and/or popular with the public. Let's hope it isn't a button museum or something ;)

But can you imagine life without buttons?

It'd be a lot colder for a start off!

as i said, a museum is well needed in birm,ingham...we have way to few of them.....

im not saying that MG wont get built. i mean this is the corner stone of the councils plan to regenerate the city...has been talked about for years so its obvious something will get built. i just feel the need t tell certain memeber (no names.....ok BC) that this aint hapening 2moro

anyway ppl, i am discusted by the way in which a 110m tower has been recieved here...... ok, its not the tallest in the UK or out like that but you all have dimissed it as "not bad"......WTF

BWP in leeds 110m
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/734BridgewaterPlace_pic3.jpg

a beast like this IS coming to our city centre.......... and its on a hill.

picture mclaren in the skyline from st andrews........then increase the height of mclaren by 50% (60% to allow for hill) and that what we're getting

I love the fact that we (might) be getting a 110m here - it will be our second tallest inhabited if it is finished before BST, AC etc! I have been enthusiastic!

Btw - BWP is lovely :)

well just thing about it, a 100m tower with a sister of about 60m.....surround by 3 10-12 storey towers of 45-50m, how dense thisarea will be, will b a great part of the city and real amazing to go through...and then thats not taking into account the 70m masshouse and city park gate towers....this is amazing

amazing just hope no-one screws it up

I scrolled up this thread and saw that... My heart nearly stopped...I thought Brum was getting that... As long as we get smoething similar i'm happy...

well its the right height and near the right shape lol

http://************/ilc9ko.jpg

Oh yeah, it's 30m taller than Alpha Tower!

If you take an axis from the cathedral to Moor St then the new tower will appear about the same height as the Rotunda. Standing outside M&S on the High Street is going to look very slick.

All glass like the Rotunda would be good

30m taller than alpha?????

ok im confused....its only going to be 10m taler than alpha


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I aint stupid woody ;) its obvious it wont get strated till 2007, but its a major development such as the Post and Mail etc that will be pushed through as fast as it can.

It will be only 10m on alpha - But built on much higher ground. And will appear roughly the same height as HCT from St.andrews

Hands up - I like :)

It will make a great filler in the skyline for when our larger proposals finally arrive ;)

whoops. I meant the rotunda. The new one's about the same height as alpha

Would love opinions on which shops will populate the Galleries ? I'm guessing for a scheme of this size to be a success it will need at least 1 major department store plus a number of other high st names. I'm trying to hink of high st names that aren't already represented elsewhere in the city and I'm struggling.

In terms of dept stores the only 2 I can think of are John Lewis and Harvey Nicks anyone have any thoughts ?

We already have Harvy Nicks!

hammer, we already have a harvy nicks and as the report states there will be one dpartments store....yes prob john lewis, last major chain not in the city...

The Harvey Nicks we have isn't a department store, it's classified as a 'boutique outlet' whatever one of those is.

Harrods??

Macys??

Poundland Megastore??

The possibilities are endless...

well from what is seen of harvey nichs, thats a s good as it gets unles su live uin london lol

would b interesting to see whos interested in it........

will this get approved though, thats the big question on everyones lips

Yes hammerb24, our HN isn't one of their fully-fledged department stores with restaurant,(sadly), alike the ones in the capital, in Leeds and in M'cr for example. They were struggling with floor availability at the units at the front of the Mailbox, where they wanted their Birmingham store to be, and apparently agreed on the site on the left linking to further space opposite on the right, by way of a new covered walk-bridge linking the two, which was never part of the original design for the Mailbox frontage. There was some rumour ages back that if new space became available either below(ARmani store) or behind, then a HN restaurant might be added, together with extra selling space. I think this however might be less likely.
HN's , however, could set a new precedent in MG by having a second store in the city, perhaps, coupled with the obvious availability of lots more space.

Harvey Nicks are already in the perfect position - Once Orion and HCT are liveable not to mention Orion 2, AC and The Cube the only thing I can see them doing is expanding within the Mailbox.

They've got potentially thousands of rich customers on thier doorstep :)

I think we shall see a big chain located here considering its proximity to Selfridges and the Bullring

An interesting side effect on the CAA limit is that, no matter where towers are sited in the city centre (such as HCT and MG), if they build up to or close to the CAA limit, they will appear to reach the same level. If MG is built at the height mentioned, then from any angle it will appear nearly as tall as HCT (due to the topography). This, IMO, will add to the density of our skyline in a big way.

Back to the shops, well I have heard a vicious rumour that John Lewis are considering a store, and the shops that will be targetted are home & lifestyle rather than just fashion.

Some may remember a while back I did a lot of winking after the BBC report of city centre Ikeas, alas no-one put 2 and 2 together... ;) This is just a bet though, not based on anything concrete.

My money is on stuff like: John Lewis, Habitat, Laura Ashley, Ikea Central, supermarket, ski/holiday shop - that kind of thing.

Harrods??
Macys??
Poundland Megastore??
The possibilities are endless...
Well we have Aston Uni, UCE and MBC close by ..... it's a big opportunity for Poundland! :yes:

Back to the shops, well I have heard a vicious rumour that John Lewis are considering a store, and the shops that will be targetted are home & lifestyle rather than just fashion.
Please, please, please, please let it be more than just fashion. Birmingham is so overloaded with fashion stores at the moment it's starting to get embarrassing. We really need to branch out.
My girlfriend reckons a department store isn't a department store unless it has a furniture department - otherwise, I guess, it's just a 'boutique outlet'.

Your girlfriend is very perceptive and dead right Steve. A Department Store should be akin to Grace Brothers - HoF have got it right and Selfridges and Debenhams are there more or less. Furniture, food, clothes, electrical and sundries - a real one-stop shop.

I think there is space for more designer shops in Brum there will be another 1 or 2 High St names that will want to come here, and we need more independent boutiques, specialist shops etc, but they will happen in the fullness of time. We need to offer the full range and lifestyle and leisure are what we are missing most.

Would love opinions on which shops will populate the Galleries ? I'm guessing for a scheme of this size to be a success it will need at least 1 major department store plus a number of other high st names. I'm trying to hink of high st names that aren't already represented elsewhere in the city and I'm struggling.

In terms of dept stores the only 2 I can think of are John Lewis and Harvey Nicks anyone have any thoughts ?

Not a deparment store I know, but I'd be suprised if WHSmith don't move out of their spot in the big top. I used to work there, and there is tons of space in there which WHS is paying rent for, but doesn't use. The shopfloor, warehouse, offices and stuff literally take up about half of the space they occupy. They looked at BullRing the rent was too expensive.

the only thing about whsmiths is that 3 years ago they totally refurbished the place so i think they will be staying put for a while yet.

in terms of shops, i truly hope that there is not going to be yet another supermarket here...ther is due to be one in city park gate and there is already a tescos across the street. living in newcastle where there is now food shops in the city centre, i appreciate the need to food shops being right at the heart fo the city but i cant hlp but be a little dissapointed every time tesco takes all the prime slots in the city.

however, bio makes a good point

...look at our skyline and see the impact HCT has on our skyline......MG will have the exact same impact.....give and take on perspective!

An interesting side effect on the CAA limit is that, no matter where towers are sited in the city centre (such as HCT and MG), if they build up to or close to the CAA limit, they will appear to reach the same level. If MG is built at the height mentioned, then from any angle it will appear nearly as tall as HCT (due to the topography). This, IMO, will add to the density of our skyline in a big way.

The down side is that the skyline itself will look flat - all the buildings will rise to a set level. While this may aid density it will appear too uniform with no pinancles. A good skyline generally has a dense cluster with a few peaks rising above. We'll be lucky to get those peaks given the timidity displayed in most Brum proposals. Ultimately the ruling will hinder rather than enhance what we'll get...

umm not true AC and BST will be our pinnacles, were not gonna have a skyline over night

Regarding the shops i rekon it'll be john lewis and ikea has ikea are now gonna concentrate on stores in the city centre and whsmith will not be going anywhere there in the perfect location

I would say that John Lewis will be moving there, not sure about Ikea, the numbers I've heard them talk about are 12 new city centre stores. They've already confirmed one in Coventry which just gives me a doubt over whether or not they want one in Birmingham as well.

Harrods I heard mentioned above - now that would be something!

........ MD, your forgetting that yes it would look flat with lots of tower being 2424m AOD...but at the momemt, we only have ONE.........thats hct..... most of our towers are 70m mark......with about 6 at the 100-120m (caa limit) and then 2 3 at the 140m+ (BST AC) area.....sounds like a nice mix to me

2424m! That would be something to behold ;)
:lol: :pepper: :banana: :carrot: :banana2:

FGS

........ MD, your forgetting that yes it would look flat with lots of tower being 2424m AOD...but at the momemt, we only have ONE.........thats hct..... most of our towers are 70m mark......with about 6 at the 100-120m (caa limit) and then 2 3 at the 140m+ (BST AC) area.....sounds like a nice mix to me

That's true - I'm just a little cynical now about AC so I'm not pinning too much hope on that. Hopefully New Street will pleasantly surprise us and fingers are crossed for BST. BST is the make or break tower - if that's approved as it is it will encourage people to build tall. Beetham 2 at around 160m would be nice - especially if she was situated near her sister :)

yes MD, you have hit it on the head there......BST is not the be all and end all, but if this can get through, it will be very encouraging....

When can we expect news on BST? Didn't they apply for planning last July/August time? I really hope this gets through unscathed...

i cant remember when the plannig was filled for but it will be on the BST thread.....

it should get through, they have done absolutly shit loads of work with BHX and provided massive reports stating how the tower will meet all the criteria needed for the CAA and effectively rubished the CAA height limit.....

it was a very clever piece of reporting and well researched with flight paths and elevations....

So if that's the case and all goes well what height can we build to? Will this in effect demolish the CAA ruling?

So if that's the case and all goes well what height can we build to? Will this in effect demolish the CAA ruling?



God - imagine the celebrations that would entail if that indeed was going to be the case. Fook me - the stupid restrictions shouldn't have been put in place anyway - why? Simply cos one Brum building has already breached that pathetic ruling for the last 40 bleeding bastard years. :no:

Precisely MG - it seems a totally pointless restriction when it's all ready been breached. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the Richardsons can hammer a a coupe of nails into this iodiot rulings coffin.

Can someone clarify a point on the CAA ruling for me please?

As I understand it, it was introduced after the september 11 attacks in the USA?

The attacks which brought down the World Trade Center towers.

Where they are now planning to build the 1,771 ft Freedom Tower. Thats 4x the height of Broad St. Tower!!

Now, I hate to bring up the atrocities of 9/11, but does the CAA think Birmingham is a bigger terrorist target then New York City? Or London?

Utter Bollocks

One word of caution - even if BST gets PP (well, I think it might be granted but with lots of conditions, not necessarily height related but more to do with parking, affordable housing etc etc) the Richardsons have said they are in no hurry to build it. The economic upturn in housing etc may spur them on, but it could be a while before we see it built.

Not that it matters - as long as it gets PP I don't care! It means AC can go ahead... ;)

Talking about 9/11, they also hit the Pentagon, which I belive would have been under the CAA rulings. I really can't understand why the need for this restriction on building height. And the economic damage it causes

I don't think it so much as terrorism as aircraft in difficulty/bad weather. I have read the CAA guidance (very dull) and it draws a cone shape from the airport (the point at the runway then spreading out in 3D in line with the runway) with various factors affecting it. The cone ends at a certain distance (I am not sure, but it may be 15 miles or something) and any building that falls within the cone is subject to height restrictions. The closer to the airport the building is the lower the max height allowed in relation to the runway.

So, the benefit of having an airport so close to the city is offset somewhat by having height restrictions. The intersting thing is that if the runway was oriented north/south rather than east/west we wouldn't have a problem.

There is cause for hope though - the city centre sits toward the edge of the cone so it could be argued that the buildings are less at risk. All of us know that 'planes fly over the M6 near Fort Dunlop and not over the city centre.

Also - are we suppose to believe that the modern powerful aircraft of today are more of a risk to buildings than those of the 70's were to the likes of BT & Alpha?

Aircraft are in fact far safer now than the seventies with collision avoidance equipment and so on. The chances of a direct strike on a tall building are infinitesimally small. Even then buildings can be designed to withstand such a strike. If I recall correctly the twin towers were designed to withstand a direct strike from a Boeing 707, which was then the largest airliner in service. All in all the CAA limit is a bit of a nonsense.

What about canary wharf then that has a bloody airport right next to it!!!

But not pointing AT it. BIA nearly points at the city centre...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/misterFlibble1976/London.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/misterFlibble1976/Brum.jpg

Compare these Google Earth shots of Canary Wharf and Birmingham. BIA's runway doesn't point towards the city centre, more towards Castle Brom highlighted as Jaguar.

London City Airport's runway, by comparison is MUCH closer, and IS pointing at Canary Wharf.

My mistake...

My mistake...

CAA's. Not yours mate. Hopefully one which will not be allowed to stand much longer!!

Hear hear! :)

Redesign for shopping complex bid Jan 27 2006




By David Bell, Birmingham Mail


A £530 million Birmingham leisure, homes and offices complex has been redesigned so it won't compete with the Bullring.

The 14-acre Martineau Galleries site around Priory Square will feature top quality offices, a 25-storey residential tower with extensive roof gardens, a fourstorey department store, other shops, and 2,250 underground car parking spaces.

It will also have a mystery cultural feature which will be "new and unique to Birmingham".

Bob de Barr of developers, the Birmingham Alliance, said no decision had yet been taken on what the feature would be. He told city planners before they toured the site that the proposals represented a complete rethink of original plans. ..TEX "It has been designed around streets and squares rather than the enclosed centres of the 1980s and 90s," he said. "And it will complement the Bullring, not compete with it."

Different architects will be commissioned to work on the eight buildings which will be constructed on the site from 2008. "It will be quality and diversity," he added. "The existing site and buildings are in a pretty poor state. This will be a new urban quarter linking with Eastside, befitting an international city."




Story continues

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Virgin and ToysRUs have already announced plans to close stores. Two popular Birmingham institutions - the Oasis indoor fashion market and the Academy club - will also have to relocate.

CONSTRUCTION TO START 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that good or bad in your opinion Pirlo?

IMO it is about right, thinking about it, although I would have expected 2007. They will need a year or so for leases to expire and 6 months stripping, demo and infrastructure.

I am glad different architects will be used, and it is good that they are using the word diversity.

I take it that Joh Lewis are going there then? :)

i think to start work on the site at 2008 is a great plan..... youve got planning and demolition and redesign...thats great imo.....

Sounds like good news to me and as they have decided to use different architects for each of the 8 buildings we should have some really good competing designs.

That'll Ding Dang Do for me!!!!!!!

"I take it that Joh Lewis are going there then? "

how you work that one out, and yes i am glad its going , especially as everything around its being developed or been developed recently

Hmm different architechs doesn't neccessarily make loads of sense. The orriginal bull ring used 3 different architects and was heavily critisised for the poor connection between the main buildings/styles

Still they all have to act within the Masterplan...

they will have to act within the masterplan and unlike the bullring, it will be up for competition

Good news - should be another Bullring type specialty I wouldve though. Birmingham could ebcome one of the finest examples of modern redevelopment in the world.

I hoep they produce one building of such style that people go WOW at!

There is a new item on the news page about Martineau which is worth a read:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=533

I am pleased to read that they may go for a Brindley Place type procurement using competing architects to keep the design standards up. The visuals I have seen so far were disapointing but if they do not represent any idea of what the finished buildings will look like then I shall sleep more soundly

The first renderings for Brindley Place were hazy shaped blocks. before they detailed things in like the Sienna-type tower etc. I'm really looking forward to this dev.

There is a new item on the news page about Martineau which is worth a read:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=533

I am pleased to read that they may go for a Brindley Place type procurement using competing architects to keep the design standards up. The visuals I have seen so far were disapointing but if they do not represent any idea of what the finished buildings will look like then I shall sleep more soundly

why thank you very much :tyty:


:goodnight

"I take it that Joh Lewis are going there then? "

how you work that one out, and yes i am glad its going , especially as everything around its being developed or been developed recently

By powers of deduction Pirlo :) The article said that there would be a 4-storey department store. There aren't many department store chains left, and whilst Brum's retail kudos is good, I don't think Harrods are in a rush to come here (and Harrods/HoF used to be the same company), and I haven't heard of any American chains showing an interest. We already have M&S, Debenhams, Selfridges and HoF and unless Harvey Nicks want to get a full size store I can't think of anyone else :?

and i know for a fact when the bulrring was being built, they were given first refusal on the selfridges site, which they turned down in favour of touchwood....... and i know for a fact they regret that!

Thank God they turned it down :)

well yes...but i heard they said they will never go to the bullring as it will be a huge failure..ho they have been forced to eat their words.

I christen the new MG building "Tail Firmly Between Legs House"

we really need somethig huge to begin soon now that HCT has finished...

I disagree - The Cube and Masshouse are two of my favoruite projects and neither of them really are recognised for thier height.

I disagree also...Look at statment above...Yet I agree. The desire to have a tall skyscraper is overwhelming at sometime we will have one...But Selfridges and the Cube will be more famous than a Hong Kong residential tower....Hence if it is popularity you are looking for you would have to create an amazingly beautiful high-rise to make it as regogniseable as The Cube...

Usherling/BC very much agree with you, the Cube will give Birmingham 2 real iconic modern buildings. Snow Hill/Post and Mail and Masshouse will give Birmingham some real quality office space. All of this and the Galleries, Eastside and New St is still to come. If Arena Centre and BST come up as well then a real bonus but there is plenty going on to be excited about.

Hurrah!

We're finally getting excited on the Brum forums!

:) :nuts: :cucumber: :banana: :tyty: :crazy2: :booze: :cheers: :eat: :cheer: :bowtie: :dizzy: :carrot: :cheers2: :cheers1: :pepper: :banana2:

"I disagree - The Cube and Masshouse are two of my favoruite projects and neither of them really are recognised for thier height."

yes but the cube has begun yet and most of what the current block on masshouse is done god knows when the rest is done,

sent an email to the academy not too far back about the relocation. got one back saying that they had no plans on moving.

found this too, dunno if you've seen it

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/centralcity/tm_objectid=16625141&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=music-venue-defiant-on-development-name_page.html

sounds like they're gettin arsy. i reckons they should move to digbeth. find some abandoned warehouse and do it up. theyd fit in really well round there what with the custard factory, rainbow, sanctuary/barfly etc.

I disagree - The Cube and Masshouse are two of my favoruite projects and neither of them really are recognised for thier height.

Masshouse is functional and will provide sorely needed office space. It's not specatacular and doesn't get the juices flowing, but it will serve a purpose and will stand the test of time. I can't see people wanting this demolished a decade down the line.


The Cube, well... As much as I've tried to like it I can't. From the renders it's squat, completely overpowers it's surroundings, the crown looks like a complete after thought and it appears to be clad in pixelated vomit. In ten or fifteen years I feel we'll regret this as much as any of the sixties and seventies monstrosities in Brum. It's a real wasted opportunity...

sounds like they're gettin arsy. i reckons they should move to digbeth. find some abandoned warehouse and do it up. theyd fit in really well round there what with the custard factory, rainbow, sanctuary/barfly etc.

Looks like they are holding out for maximum compo. Theres no way they will hold it up though I am sure Carling wouldnt want to be seen holding up a development that was going to bring lots of jobs to the area, for example.

They might need quite a lot of cash to make an equivalent venue out of a warehouse wouldnt you have to insulate the roof and stuff for acoustics? but the land and building would be cheap. Hopefully MG might indirectly spawn another attraction to bring more and different people to eastside/digbeth way.

I don't reckon much of that Cube cladding either. Looks like a load of fly blown shit to me.

Martin G anything you say is taken with a pinch of salt nowadays, however, you fecking piss flaps, neither of you have anything to good to say about the city yet MOAN! MOAN! MOAN! week in week out, and its got to the point where I hope others lash out at ya.

Its FUCKING BORING reading you SHIT every day. Give things a chance. Im tired and im stressed, but still I dont think its wrong for me to say that you two pessimistic ball lickers only contribute when you decide to bash something going on in Birmingham - try being positive for a change, if not you might aswell bog of and slag Brum in the city bashing thread, least there, there will be people who might share your constant shitty views on our city.

Looks like they are holding out for maximum compo. Theres no way they will hold it up though I am sure Carling wouldnt want to be seen holding up a development that was going to bring lots of jobs to the area, for example.

They might need quite a lot of cash to make an equivalent venue out of a warehouse wouldnt you have to insulate the roof and stuff for acoustics? but the land and building would be cheap. Hopefully MG might indirectly spawn another attraction to bring more and different people to eastside/digbeth way.

Brum Alliance have said they will help them find a new venue, and eventually the Academy will end up with a CPO if they don't move.

I reckon it will be the Sanctuary if they can knock some internal walls and floors out...

Martin G anything you say is taken with a pinch of salt nowadays, however, you fecking piss flaps, neither of you have anything to good to say about the city yet MOAN! MOAN! MOAN! week in week out, and its got to the point where I hope others lash out at ya.

Its FUCKING BORING reading you SHIT every day. Give things a chance. Im tired and im stressed, but still I dont think its wrong for me to say that you two pessimistic ball lickers only contribute when you decide to bash something going on in Birmingham - try being positive for a change, if not you might aswell bog of and slag Brum in the city bashing thread, least there, there will be people who might share your constant shitty views on our city.

Woooaaaa BC ... not wishing to speak for him, but I think you've probably misjudged MG's intentions. He actually likes Brum and his anger has generally been through frustration at some of the development (or lack thereof) in the city. He was also the only forumer from here to register with the Midland's Music Forum that I set up, and is now the top poster with over 50 posts! Considering he doesn't live in the Midlands ...
:)

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/centralcity/tm_objectid=16625141&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=music-venue-defiant-on-development-name_page.html
sounds like they're gettin arsy...
The opening paragraph is a bit ambiguous: The Academy "insist they are going nowhere". Which sounds like they have thrown their toys out of the pram. But the second paragraph states The Academy "will not turn its back on Birmingham". Implying that 'we're not going nowhere' means 'we have no intention of leaving the city' rather than moving from their current premises.
Of course they will hold out for a decent compensation package and wait for a guaranteed alternative site, anyone with a thriving business would do the same.

And given the lack of a similar venue in the city and how successful it's been, it would be a bit of a silly decision if they pulled out (the years before it re-opened were pretty bleak if you hoped to see any mid-sized bands). If they did move to Digbeth I wonder if the proximity of Barfly & The Custard Factory would serve as healthy competition or put them off having the secondary venues (Academy 2 & Bar Academy)?

Please don't let them move to the Dome. That has to come down...

Digbeth would be a good idea. Ive always felt Digbeth should be a place for youth, for music, for art & creativity. And yeah the Dome is a no no

why dont they just move temporary and then when mg is done come back to a nice purpose built building

Martin G anything you say is taken with a pinch of salt nowadays, however, you fecking piss flaps, neither of you have anything to good to say about the city yet MOAN! MOAN! MOAN! week in week out, and its got to the point where I hope others lash out at ya.



Its FUCKING BORING reading you SHIT every day. Give things a chance. Im tired and im stressed, but still I dont think its wrong for me to say that you two pessimistic ball lickers only contribute when you decide to bash something going on in Birmingham - try being positive for a change, if not you might aswell bog of and slag Brum in the city bashing thread, least there, there will be people who might share your constant shitty views on our city.





Oooooooooooooh who's got their knickers and fanny flaps in a twist then eh Birminghamculture? Stop being so goddamned overreactionary and realise that I actually am VERY PRO-BIRMINGHAM - and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. On the contrary, it's YOU that is sounding WAY MORE childish than I could ever hope to be - have your read your words back to yourself at all and realised how incoherent you sound? Have you been drinking or summat? As if I am a "city basher"!! You don't half talk some crap! As for that "pinch of salt" business - well, I can't believe you have been taking me so literally anyway. It's ALWAYS been "pinch of salt" with me - or have you only just cottoned on? Even my so-called negativity is really a front for me being aggrieved/frustrated at the prevailing situation in the city - no more and no less. Stop focusing on just one aspect of my forum personality and look at the bigger picture for once, as I DO contribute a lot of positive/ constructive stuff here as well, you'd be gobsmacked to realise! You slag me off for being myopic but ironically you are being just that from your rant above! And I myself personally find it fucking tedious / annoying that some people here (like yourself) continue to have this perception that I'm just a one trick pony moaning about things - like fuck I am. Other people moan and whinge too - why not jump down their fucking throats too?? I'm afraid you underestimate me as a person - I possess enough knowledge about other things/issues to bring up here as well as just fucking "ranting"!!! :no:



Read Doyle's comment beneath yours and consider yourself stood corrected and looking very very foolish indeed. Silly sod. Now calm down and stop spitting out your dummy and tossing your toys out of yer pram! Got it? ;)



Oh, and take those words "pessimistic ball lickers" back mate - I have never been moved to openly insult you on ANY thread here have I? I seldom insult people at all come to that. I have at least got some dignity when I post here. Until now that is.... so allow me the pleasure of calling you a stroppy turd-sucking bell-end in return, if you must! Fair's fair, eh? :tongue2:

Woooaaaa BC ... not wishing to speak for him, but I think you've probably misjudged MG's intentions. He actually likes Brum and his anger has generally been through frustration at some of the development (or lack thereof) in the city. He was also the only forumer from here to register with the Midland's Music Forum that I set up, and is now the top poster with over 50 posts! Considering he doesn't live in the Midlands ...
:)


Thanks for sticking up for me Doyle...I get so genuinely fucked off with people bashing me here time and time again cos - to them - it appears I'm "bashing" Brum by saying "negative" things - I find such a notion completely fucking ridiculous - not to mention completely beyond the pale.. I mean, how lily-livered must they be to find some of my comments so terribly offensive that they have to constantly harangue and flame me in this way? And believe me - it's been like this ever since I started posting here four years ago... In the early days it was people like Woodhousen and Dee who would be annoyed at my "pessimistic" thoughts but now even they have wised up on the fact that much of my "pessimism" is simply borne out of sheer frustration with the way things are going in the city and how I dearly wish things would progress the way we would all wish them to. The sooner more people wake up to this fact and stop misjudging me on the surface the fucking better I say. Cos I'm getting far more tired of that than they ever can of my incessant "negativity". There is nowt wrong with being "realistic". I certainly do not believe in being "over optimistic" as being cautious / skeptical to me is a much wiser attitude to adopt in the light of how things have been prevailing. :yes:

pessimistic ball lickers


a nice phrase, but pessimistic is realistic as far as birmingham is concerned

...to have this perception that I'm just a one tick pony...

Sheep dip will get rid of your tick Martin ;)

I think BC was just having a rant and you got the brunt...

I think we should stick Martin in a council or Chamber of Commerce meeting or a Birmingham Forward conference. That would liven them up :)

I think we should stick Martin in a council or Chamber of Commerce meeting or a Birmingham Forward conference. That would liven them up :)
Bostin idea, although I do fear Martin would get himself arrested under the prevention of terrorism act, just like that poor sod in the Labour conference last year.

Sheep dip will get rid of your tick Martin ;)


You fucking bastard! :evil: I hate you - I was angry when I typed that - YOU TRY typing five words a second when you're dead incensed and not make some typical fucking spelling howlers. I spell-checked everything but one word just HAD to slip through the fucking net and I bet you're smug about that one now ain't cha? :tongue2:


I think BC was just having a rant and you got the brunt...

I think we should stick Martin in a council or Chamber of Commerce meeting or a Birmingham Forward conference. That would liven them up :)

I don't care if BumCulture was having a rant - he has always had it in for me and my contributions anyway - so that negates your theory. I explained the whole situation in my posts above. He regards me writing what I do as "bashing Birmingham" and having a pop at it cos I don't live there - which is absolute bollocks if you think about it - just ask some of the other Brum forumers who know what my stance is [i.e. on actually sticking up for and caring about what happens in the city, despite being critical of so many aspects of it]. :yes:

You fucking bastard! :evil: I hate you - I was angry when I typed that - YOU TRY typing five words a second when you're dead incensed and not make some typical fucking spelling howlers. I spell-checked everything but one word just HAD to slip through the fucking net and I bet you're smug about that one now ain't cha? :tongue2:


:rofl: :hilarious :lol:

I spell-checked everything but one word just HAD to slip through the fucking net ... :tongue2:
Ah yes, the ever reliable spell checker. When ever I'm pulled up on mistakes like that which slip through into documents I write, I always reply by reciting the spell checker poem (http://www.latech.edu/tech/liberal-arts/geography/courses/spellchecker.htm).

Toys R Us has shut down!

Ment to mention it last week. Does anyone know where they are relocating too?

Toys R Us has shut down!

Ment to mention it last week. Does anyone know where they are relocating too?

The only place that i can think of is the old Beaties building, but you would expect that they would of moved the business and reopened straight away to keep the goodwill of it's customers. :dunno:

interestingly, there is no mention of a Birmingham store on the TRU store-locator website

bloody hell, i would have thought they wouldnt wana miss out on not having a brum store....... though having said that, it was a hell hole......doesnt oldbury have one?

yes oldbury has one: quite good one too.

Can't believe TRU have deserted Brum: perhaps they're trying to find a suitable place, refurb it and then publicise the fact.

Hot news from the council committee - Martineau Galleries has PP :)

Any idea as to where Oasis is moving to?

Good to see the back of the Toys R US brown horror.

good find bio

Thanks! The Town Hall cat told me ;)

It is only outline PP for the whole development - it will be interesting to see what the conditions are... and also when the detailed applications go in!

Stephen - not a clue where Oasis will go to. Will be a while away but I would guess either near the markets proper or toward the Custard Factory - something like the Oasis could really connect these part of town.

The Academy has listing up until November so they aren't going anywhere quickly.

well outline or not, that was very quick....

Not so quick, they have been in pr-consultatation for years, apparently the big hold-up was parking.

A misty memory from my childhood was of a Hamleys in Birmingham, where was that?

Thanks for the info Biosonic.

I can't remember where Hamleys was MJH.

Hamleys was situated at the top of Bull St where Colmore Gate is now.

I rember loving going to Hamleys, a real treat, Its just the sort of retailer we could do with at Martineax galleries, and get those higher income brackets back into the centre.

so what time frame are we looking at with this project?

Apparently Martineu Galleries is to include a landmark 780 foot tower now!!!
......................but then it is the birmingham post.



In Friday's Post Mar 30 2006

Martineau Galleries, a £550 million redevelopment of Birmingham city centre, has moved a step closer to being built after planners threw their weight behind the "world class" scheme. Members of the city council planning committee backed the mixed-use project, which will transform a 13.5 acre site at the eastern end of the High Street into shops, flats, offices, a hotel and a landmark 780-foot tower. Building work could begin in 2008 and be completed by 2011, if final approval is given by the Government. The council is hoping to repeat the success of the Bullring, whose developers the Birmingham Alliance are also behind Martineau Galleries.

hmmmmmmm a 236m tower....cant help but think thats a little too much to hope for!

You'd think they would check things like that.Thanks for the info.

lol, but i cant see where they got that figure from.....air?

Although I'm happy with the tower, I think this development really needs something to capture the imagination of the public.Bulliring managed it because of the wonderful Selfridges building.Do posters believe that this project needs a WOW factor or a pleasant shopping area will suffice?

This would be a all time record for the Post if you can get a 110m and a 236m tower mixed up.

Be interesting to see what it states in the Post tomorrow allow the 236m fiqure sounds way off maybe it could be taller than 110m now, when you look at Miller looking to build to 175m tower and the 175m Pinnacle tower thrown into the mix...maybe finally developers are looking to build tall?

hmmm, im always worried about that wow factor........all you need to do is think of the bullring....you have the WOW selfridges and then the shit buildings opposite it that brings it all down. i have nothing against wow factor buildings, bit we also have to have normal, high quality developments. the question is, is MG the right or wrong site for anything?

i hope as soon as the news of the museum gets to the public, the publics imaginatin will be caught!

DO they mean 236 Meters above sea level?? Well, not them meaning that, but that's what they read?

Also 550 Million, that's a lot, heck you could reclad New Street Station for less than that.

ahhh, thats where the figure has come from............. congrat, u figured out how that come to that apprarent random number!

...... if final approval is given by the Government. .

Why does it need approval from the government?

Remember this from message #49 onwards?

1. 167.60m (44.90m)
2. 176.6m (44.54m)
3. 239.00m (110.0m)
4. 165.1m (45.80m)
5. 156.13m (28.50m)
6. 156.13m (29.50m)
7. 143.60m (24.00m)

Still would have been nice to have a true skyscraper in Brum wouldn't it?

1. 167.60m
2. 176.6m
3. 239.00m
4. 165.1m
5. 156.13m
6. 156.13m
7. 143.60m


Imagine that! :)

here u all go lads.......

first page

Planners back revamp for Martineau Galleries

Martineau Galleries, a £550 million redevelopment of Birmingham city centre, moved a step closer yesterday as planners threw their weight behind the “world class” scheme.
Members of the city council planning committee backed the mixed-use project, which will transform a 13.5 acre site at the eastern end of the High Street into shops, flats, offices, a hotel and a landmark 780-foot tower.

Building work could begin in 2008 and be completed by 2011, if final approval is given by the Government.

The council is hoping to repeat the success of the Bullring, whose developers the Birmingham Alliance are also behind Martineau Galleries.

The latest venture encompasses a huge site bounded by Corporation Street, Priory Queensway, Dale End, Chapel Street, Moor Street Queensway and Bull Street. The aim is to create a natural pedestrian link between the Bullring and the eastern edge of the city centre, opening up further regeneration in Eastside.

More than 5,000 jobs will be created in addition to about 2,000 temporary construction jobs.

Birmingham Alliance has promised to contribute £10 million toward transportation and road improvements when planning permission is granted. The scheme was described as a world beater by Birmingham planning director Clive Dutton, who predicted that the project would outshine the Bullring.

Mr Dutton added: “This is an exciting major addition to the city centre at the heart of the retail core.” However, a row broke out over the design after the Government’s advisory body on architecture said the scheme lacked character.

CABE, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment, warned Martineau Galleries could be “anywhere, anyplace”.

The Commission was particularly critical of the tower, which will contain more than 700 apartments.

In a letter to the council, CABE noted: “The flats are not grounded and entrance lobbies are small. The flats would feel isolated and disconnected. CABE/English Heritage guidance on tall building indicates that outline approval should not be given.” The comments were rejected by Phil Crabtree, the council’s assistant director of planning. He said CABE had been reacting to an earlier draft proposal.


http://epaper.icmidlands.co.uk/Web/Photographs/2006/03/31/002/31_03_2006_002_006_014.jpg

second page

Highest hopes for new Galleries
Nothing suggests that this will be an acceptable place to live, particularly for those with children Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment
By Paul Dale Chief Reporter

Expectations of excellence are running high for Martineau Galleries, the £550 million transformation of a vast rundown site on the eastern edge of Birmingham city centre.
City council planners are confident of repeating the success of the Bullring, and with good reason since the Birmingham Alliance, which built the award-winning shopping centre, is also behind Martineau Galleries.

The Alliance’s latest venture involves the redevelopment of a 13.5 acre site between Corporation Street, Priory Queensway, Dale End, Chapel Street, Moor Street Queensway, Albert Street, High Street and Bull Street.

The mixed-use scheme is likely to provide 650,000 square feet of new retail space. A landmark 780-ft tower (HOW WRONG COULD THEY BE)will contain more than 700 apartments, while a hotel and casino are also planned.

Martineau Galleries will replace a number of buildings that the council deems outdated, including the Priory Walk shopping centre, the Oasis market, Dale House and the NCP car parks in Dale End and Albert Street.

Council leaders have congratulated themselves at the speed with which planning permission for such a complex city centre project has been sorted out – a little more than three months after the application was first submitted.

The planning committee yesterday backed Martineau Galleries and referred the matter to the Government for final approval, which is expected to be a formality.

Clive Dutton, Birmingham’s director of planning, said Martineau Galleries would be a “world beater” and even better than the Bullring. “It will keep us on track in our continuing renaissance as a world class city,” he added.

The development would form a natural pedestrian link between the Bullring and Eastside, Mr Dutton said.

Planning committee member Peter Douglas Osborn was excited by the potential of Martineau Galleries to provide urban redevelopment of national significance.

Coun Douglas Osborn (Con Weoley) added: “This accords with our ambitions as a city.

This is something exciting and, dare I say it, iconic which will present us again in front of the nation as a city with imagination.” Not everyone, however, was so up-beat. Several committee members questioned the layout of squares and walkways, which were said to be too narrow. There were also concerns that the scale of development could block views of the Methodist Central Hall in Corporation Street.

But the most scathing comments came from CABE, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment, which said the initial designs were lacking in imagination and of an “anywhere, anyplace” character.

The Commission, which advises the Government on urban design, warned that Martineau Galleries was in danger of becoming an “elevational skinning exercise” and there were fundamental concerns about what was being proposed.

CABE was particularly critical of the tower. “Nothing suggests that this will be an acceptable place to live, particularly for those with children,” CABE added.

The remarks were dismissed by Bob de Barr, development director for the Birmingham Alliance, who described CABE’s concerns as premature.

Mr de Barr said the Commission had been commenting on an early outline impression of the scheme. Changes had been made since then and further changes were planned.

Mr de Barr added: “No one knows at this stage what the final appearance of the scheme will be or the potential tenant line up. We are looking for masterplan flexible consent which will enable us to deliver whatever is appropriate to the market at the time.

“We are determined to produce a world class scheme. Design is the key issue and we will not be found wanting.” Planning committee vicechairman, Councillor Martin Mullaney (Lib Dem Moseley & Kings Heath) said: “We should stop quibbling over small details. It is not our role to micro-manage a project like this.

“We should instead be looking at the major opportunities that the scheme can bring to Birmingham.” paul_dale@mrn.co.uk “It will keep us on track in our continuing renaissance as a world class city” – Clive Dutton, Birmingham’s director of planning “We should stop quibbling over small details. It is not our role to micro-manage a project like this. We should instead be looking at the major opportunities that the scheme can bring to Birmingham” – Councillor Martin Mullaney, planning committee vice-chairman “No one knows at this stage what the final appearance of the scheme will be or the potential tenant line up. We are looking for masterplan flexible consent” – Bob de Barr, development director for the Birmingham Alliance

http://epaper.icmidlands.co.uk/Web/Photographs/2006/03/31/002/31_03_2006_002_006_016.jpg

Planners back revamp for Martineau Galleries Mar 31 2006




By Paul Dale, Chief Reporter


Martineau Galleries, a £550 million redevelopment of Birmingham city centre, moved a step closer yesterday as planners threw their weight behind the "world class" scheme.

Members of the city council planning committee backed the mixed-use project, which will transform a 13.5 acre site at the eastern end of the High Street into shops, flats, offices, a hotel and a landmark 780-foot tower.

Building work could begin in 2008 and be completed by 2011, if final approval is given by the Government.

The council is hoping to repeat the success of the Bullring, whose developers the Birmingham Alliance are also behind Martineau Galleries.

The latest venture encompasses a huge site bounded by Corporation Street, Priory Queensway, Dale End, Chapel Street, Moor Street Queensway and Bull Street. The aim is to create a natural pedestrian link between the Bullring and the eastern edge of the city centre, opening up further regeneration in Eastside.




Story continues

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More than 5,000 jobs will be created in addition to about 2,000 temporary construction jobs.


Birmingham Alliance has promised to contribute £10 million toward transportation and road improvements when planning permission is granted. The scheme was described as a world beater by Birmingham planning director Clive Dutton, who predicted that the project would outshine the Bullring.


Mr Dutton added: "This is an exciting major addition to the city centre at the heart of the retail core."


However, a row broke out over the design after the Government's advisory body on architecture said the scheme lacked character.


CABE, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment, warned Martineau Galleries could be "anywhere, anyplace".


The Commission was particularly critical of the tower, which will contain more than 700 apartments.


In a letter to the council, CABE noted: "The flats are not grounded and entrance lobbies are small. The flats would feel isolated and disconnected. CABE/English Heritage guidance on tall building indicates that outline approval should not be given."


The comments were rejected by Phil Crabtree, the council's assistant director of planning. He said CABE had been reacting to an earlier draft proposal.




http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_objectid=16885322%26method=full%26siteid=50002%26headline=planners%2dback%2drevamp%2dfor%2dmartineau%2dgalleries-name_page.html

bugger, you beat me to it, Woody :o)

IN UR FACE!!!!!

780 ft tower? Hmmm..

Vast improment on what's there already

^^:lol:

That first picture show how Bull St (?) will finally look like a proper street! That tower looks great there. In the Opinion the Post criticise CABE for basing their comments on the old design (which was worse than this).

As long as we get good quality buildings, I am not too bothered about 'wow' factor. I would prefer the buildings to be of good design and fitting rather than iconic. I agree with CABE that they should be given some Birmingham character and something to distinguish it from, say, Manchester or Leeds or London. Hopefully the tower will be a bit more imaginative than that one though.

The second pic is good - looking from outside the Pavilions toward MG. You can see the little tower in front, stpeeing up to the taller one behind :)

This would be a all time record for the Post if you can get a 110m and a 236m tower mixed up.

Not as bad as them proclaiming on the front page that Digbeth Coach Station was £499m!!! :lol:

ive emailed them telling them of their shocking mistake

CABE however, does not have aproblem with the height of the tower which is good....though i cant see the point in them nit-picking about detail and design when this is only an outline planning applicvation...ie not a detailed planning application for each building!

^^Oh yeah - Birmingham Alliance said they would employ different architects and/or contractors for each building. That should prevent something uniform like the majority of the Bullring...

^^ That's good to hear.

You can see what CABe mean when they're saying it could be anywhere... but how would you give it a uniquely Brummie feel? Any ideas?

I'd like ot see a couple of buildings made of proper terracotta. It's one of Brum's strengths, and it'd be nice to see. Methinks folk are too tight though...

this should be a great thing for birmingham...when this is complete, as mass house and CPG will practically be right next to this, the centre should really be extended outwards......

i wonder if anyone will try to develop one of the buildings into the wow building??? tower??? museum??

Does anyone have any pics they could post of this plan? This development sounds really exciting.

here u go

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/MartineauGalleriesIndicMasterplan.jpg

Thanks!

I hadn't really realised how truly enormous this project is!

well i thought i throw up this map.... its shows the scale of the developments going on in the area and shows how much development space has now become available as a pure result of demolition of ONE round-about!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/MASSHOUSESTUFF.jpg

well i thought i throw up this map.... its shows the scale of the developments going on in the area and shows how much development space has now become available as a pure result of demolition of ONE round-about!


CALL YOURSELF A BRUMMIE !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

They're islands darling :)

Correction to a previous post - sketch 1 is the view down Priory St from Old Square...

Good map Woody - looking at that I wonder whether it is long before development spreads down Bartholomew St and hooks up with the Arcadian/Gay/Chinese Quarter?

The only thing stading in its way is... the Wholesale Markets (which the Tories have suggested are ripe for redevelopment).

i call them islands up ere and get told off......wow im sooo happy now that i wasnt the only one to call them islands PHEW!!!!!