Imagine if Athens Could look like this >
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1862/dreamathens7mj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Athens has the perfect setting for a set of Clusters. The one in the distance is Piraeus.

PS: Cant remember who posted this pic but if you did give yourself credit ;)

Now lets all make images of Athens with a skyline!

Check this out, it only took me a half hour to make. The Turks will recognise (from left to right) the Sisli Elite residense, the Sun Plaza, the Atakule Tower from Ankara next to the Mall, and another building in Guyukdere Avenue to the far right...

And there's more coming!!!


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20Visual%20Art/AtticaRoadskyscrapers.jpg

haha nice i made another...
http://tinypic.com/in4hgj.jpg
You like? Which one is better??!!!
Like that pic wasnt good enough BEFORE i made it into a cluster!

BTW, the buildings in the closest cluster must be located in the Votanikos ofr the Kifissos area which is very suitable for an administrative centre, in the likes of the Centro Diretzionale di Napoli (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=267421) in Naples, Italy. Height between 70-100+ metres this visionary cluster is, smaller than what that particular area can take.

The other is straight in the port of Piraeus where I see a 150-tall mere one, probably enclustered by a few 80-100 metres.

Nice vision, wait for my turn...

Lol this is fun. I hope one day we can take real unedited pics of this! Anyway, Here is 5 years later photo: http://tinypic.com/in4i12.jpg :lol:

Ps: I am eagerly anticipating your turn! Im glad you like my vision!

Play with this, this is a real one, from Penteli mountain:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429103/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+5+-+May+2005-+small800x.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429118/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+6+-May+05-small800x.jpg

Of course, the defeatist, mediocre, short-sighted Greek press and media, pretend that these views don't exist. Yet, they are still standing
:D:D:D:D:D:D

Thankyou, ill try come up with something! I prefer Silhouettes because im lazy and with Silhouette i can just make boxes and not wory about facade :D

In this image, I tried to make a bigger higher skyline:
http://tinypic.com/in4l1k.jpg
I used only the buildings in this image.

I will not avoid having a heart attack today!!!

Oh and heres the other :D
http://tinypic.com/in4lxh.jpg

I will not avoid having a heart attack today!!!
But you would like to be around for the day Athens Recieves it Newest 200m tall Skyscrapers!

Well of course I do. Now, for a number of reasons that I have explained before, I don't believe that we will be able to see anything above 150-160m in the near future. You never know though, Greeks are nuts, although the issue here is whether they will find tenants.

On the other hand, a 40-storey building with say 1500sq metres per floor, may have some 1200sq metres of leasable space which in total gives us 60000 square metres gross which give us 48000 square metres.

That's a large number but it can be leased IF the building is of good quality, well served by the Mass transport system and has ancillary facilites accomodated in its ground-level floors (shopping centre) or perhaps a hotel and Casino in it. Read Maroussi Grand Hyatt Business Centre to be in the right track...

Ah, comme j' ai envie de rever...

You didnt say wheather you like the latest picture :(

The last one is a poem, although it would look like a 1990's version, had the military junda been into power for 20 years since, unfortunately, they were the only ones to give way to this kind of development. As if buildings represent political situations!!!

NOW, PLEASE LET ME WORK ON THE PICS I AM PREPARING!!! :lol:

hehehe ok okok!!

INCOMIIIIIIIING

Kifissias roundabout junction with Attica road with Istanbul Levent Skyscrapers

Original can be seen by clicking here (http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/398403/0/Athens+-+kiffisias+Intersection+-+Medium.jpg)


and here is the vision:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20Visual%20Art/KifissiasRoundabout2comp.jpg

As I had to deal with different contrast and clour requirements, I didn't do it in colour (although I have a colour version of this I finished it in Black and white.

Again, these are towers from Levent Istanbul and had to rotate them in a couple of cases (the IS Bankasi and the two Metrocity towers) to fit them. Also, every effort has been put to maintain the original heights of the buildings and the relative scale with the rest of the pic. Have they been built there, this is how this place might have looked like. Pity they didn't but who says they won't in the future...

Id actually prefer a traditional cluster in Piraeus or Maroussi. Still i wouldnt say no to that. The Ringroad jut makes it look too sparse!

Good work though! its quite good.

You guys have to send this pictures to a newspaper of something... Well done :okay:

Actually, I don't like VERY DENSE clusters and this is not as sparce as it looks (and it IS in Maroussi). If such a thing existed it would look dense from a distance, yet it would allow people not to be intimidated by the size of the buildings. Remember Athens, according to the scenarios that I know, does not have such a big need for a very dense skyline in the beginning. I would say that until the first one is completed, the developers will have to sweat their guts out to overcome the gutter press reports, the NIMBY's appeals from the Council of State to the Inter-Galactic Tribunal, the general negativism from the Greek architectural community that all of a sudden will miraculously awake from THE BIG SLEEP, da, da ,da you name it.

This image here could easily be around 2015 where regulations, as one might expect, may still be tight.

Yea your very right GM, im sorry for posting such a foolish argument. I didn't know the Ring-Road was in Maroussi? Anyway, I hope it happens!

@Kostya:

hehe your welcome to post mine in a paper, honest.

You guys have to send this pictures to a newspaper of something... Well done :okay:


Thanks buddy, expect more to come!!! Only, because of my deeply twisted sense of humour, most of the scrapers will be Turkish, etsi gia spasimo pou leme sta Ellinika!!!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Πλάκα-πλάκα φτάσαμε στη σελίδα 2. Άκου να δείς, it's gonna be lots of laugh and fun here...

Also here is the Neratziotissa station seen from "the Mall Athens", original pic is mine, scrapers added by Grigoris Socratis.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1445/oneiro6xi.jpg

I made this drawing for a proposal for a highrise complex to be completed before the Athens 2004 Olympics. In fact it was part of a written assignment that I had given my HND in Business students during my college teaching years in Athens. It was part of a case study in Marketing Planning and it comprised many issues such as Public Relations, Media and Advertising policies, overall strategic Marketing isues and so on. Students loved it because a) they hadn't seen anything like it before and b) it offered an amlmost unlimited area for discuddion, especially when ethical issues and corporate responsibility came into play (in my case study scenario I had the Managing Director of the construction company aiming to bribe the local authorities and the leaders of the local NIMBY groups prior to the construction of the project).

Interesting indeed. The devoted anti-skyscraper haters were few. Most students were (reasonably) questioning the financial viability of the project due to its grandiose size.

OK, here it is:


Athens Olympic Towers

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20Visual%20Art/AthensOlympicTowers2.jpg

Facts:

o A 160m tall (!!!), 45-storey hotel with 600 rooms (out of which 50 are panoramic suites located on the top floors of the building), a huge shopping centre and a multiplex cinema complex with 12 theatres, large gym facilities with sauna, an indoor Olympic-size swimming pool and five restaurants including the "Athens Olympic View" to be located on the top lobby on the 45th floor.
o A 110m tall, 28-storey office tower encompassing the latest in office building technology destined according to Mr Stavrou's words, to "high calibre" tenants.
o The "Athens Olympic Convention Centre" with a total seating capacity of 15,000 to occupy three underground levels. The centre will incorporate the latest in translating technology and its flexible design will even make it capable to be used as a concert hall with 6,000 seating capacity, while using the remaining space for the setting for a giant theatre/concert scene.
o A 3,500 capacity underground parking in two levels to serve the needs of all tenants, visitors and hotel guests.
o Finally, the project construction will make exemplary use of the anti-seismic regulations for construction in Greece and abroad. For this reason, this part of construction study has already been given to a Los Angeles engineering firm with big experience in building high-rises in seismically active areas.

The project would (I almost wrote: will ) be built very close to the Olympic Stadium in Maroussi to the north of Athens.

It's all in the mind guys, all in there :)


________________________________________

Τι να κάνω, μάλλον κουβαλάω τρέλλα απάνω μου κατα πως φαίνεται, αφού είναι όλοι τους κότες κάποιος πρέπει να πει τα πράγματα με το όνομα τους...

Ξέρω γω... Καλά τα "Boutique Hotels" αλλά με 60 δωματιάκια δεν κάνεις δουλειά :D. Και μιλάω για κάτι που και η Πόλη αλλά και όλες οι άλλες αναλόγου μεγέθους με το "χρηματοοικονομικό κέντρο των Βαλκανίων" τό έχουν ήδη..

Αλλά κάτσε μην το κάνουν στα Τιρανα (η Πόλη είπαμε έχει ) ενώ σε εμάς τα ΜΑΤ θα δέρνονται με αφιονισμένους NIMBYs οι οποίοι θα έχουν πάει να σταματήσουν την κατασκευή και να λυντσάρουν τους κατασκευαστές ενώ οι μισοί έχουν ήδη από ένα αυθαίρετο στη Λούτσα...

Αντε πιά!!! :ohno: :weird: :wallbash:

Oh and heres the other :D
http://tinypic.com/in4lxh.jpgIs it only me or Licabetus looks better next to the scyscrapers???

Ok einai poly proxeiro, tha borouse na ginei poly kalytero kai den xerw an stekei apo apopsi mixanikis alla pws sas fainetai san idea mia sfairiki gefyra na enwnei dyo didimous pirgous? Den tha itan teleio kati tetoio stin Athina (leme twra...)?

http://x11.putfile.com/12/34817115079.jpg

Oi pyrgoi exoun keno xwro gyrw ap ti gefyra ektos apo tis kwlones

Egw tha eithela afta na dw stin Athina:

http://tinypic.com/inhke1.png

My Olympic Building
http://tinypic.com/inhizc.png

Kai edw einai kati pou ekana design gia ta Olympics:
http://tinypic.com/inhlc0.png
To Aquatic Centre!

:eek2::applause::applause::applause: TELEIA!

Giorgo....did you design these yourself? Those are really good my man!

Yes i did. I have plenty more if youd wish to see them.

Heres a supertall i made!
http://tinypic.com/inqwht.png

Where is it?
Ill make some now..
see what I can come up with. If its 'ok', Ill post.

What do you mean were is it?

Btw Rev, Put a greek flag in Your Avatar! :lol:

giorgos what happened. you were saying how unimportant skyscrapers were in the Tirana vs Athens thread before. yet you went to all that trouble to make up a skyline full of skyscrapers. tsk tsk.

um no. I said, skyscrapers really don't mean anything. Look at the poorest cities in the world, they all have skylines too. You were saying it as if its a privilage to have a skyline. I would love one, but it dosent bother me, because we still have a world-class city which is much better than Tirana on any occasion. Now please Exit this thread and don't spoil it before i get a mod here.

oh please you're such a hypocrite.

Oh please just leave. If your not going to stay on topic, piss off.
Your such a troll.

Its nothing special. Its got Bentham St and a side of Liberty Towers from Adelaide lol. Some Melbourne building and some American and(i think) Canadian ones.
Just seven buildings added, well if you count parts of them, and two extended upward slightly.
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5026/pireausmakeup7wv.jpg

Just ignore him Giorgos.
He is just a flamer and trouble maker, best to leave him be so its easier for a mod to step in and take care of it(him).

That looks heaps good! but weres Bentham st tower i cant see it.

About three quarters of the length of the first ship, going left to right.
Just to the bottom left of the big one. I resized most of them to fit in better..so probably looks off lol.(To say the least)

Ahhh where are our architects to see the guys from the Omogeneia teaching them a lesson or two!!!

As for the trolls, Rome is a city that doesn't have scrapers yet nobody questions its value, both architectural as well as lanscapewise...

Trolls, please stay away.

As for the Olympic tower, George, this needs to be magnified and posted to our city planners... excellent design.

Did anyone notice that it is meant to be the 'Olympic Spirit' Holding a torch? The top strobe serves as the flame. Had this tower been built in 2003, The tip of the spire would have been lit with the Olympic flame! Now...have you got that number for the city planners GM? :lol: Anyway, Im going to use these designs in an Architecture Portfoli (i want to be one day, a top architect) but I really dont know if id Embarrass myself. Im not sure if there good enough too be built or not. Or if its just rubbish.

If I showed some of my other designs, you will know who inspired me: Calatrava! My bridge is a total Calatrava rip off! Heres what Rio-Antirion Bridge should REALLY look like: (Ignore the massive scale!)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/476/bridge5mr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1179/newdesign1jw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This completes a Calatrava-esque Modern Greece! :)

Heres another building design which will work in Dubai but not Athens:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/425/height7kl.png (http://imageshack.us)
Its called Eirinis Tower.

Enjoy! :cheers:

Btw, Im making an Archive of All of the posted content on this thread. Theres some great stuff here and im sure if we make heaps, a press would be inetersted about our ambitious plans! Image if we were the city planners of this great city! :eek2:

About three quarters of the length of the first ship, going left to right.
Just to the bottom left of the big one. I resized most of them to fit in better..so probably looks off lol.(To say the least)

Oh now i recognize it! Yea i believe Athens need simple scrapers not Dubai types. The furthest Athens can go interms of Outthere is my Olympic design IMO.

Excellent work :applause: :applause: Keep the ideas coming ;)

You post an Idea! We all can!

This is the OFFICIAL Visionary Thread!!!

Actually since the first time I visited La Defense in Paris back in the 90's despite I was just a child I realized that, that was exactly what I wanted to see in Athens someday (specially in the Maroussi area). Still waiting but I don't know if you paid attention to one detail in that neighborhood, the Olympic stadium with the Arch of Calatrava at 85 mts. That number surpass superlatively the 30 mts limit imposed so far. I think that's a first step toward the way to highrises.

Also I want to see a La Defense in Athens nothing in the center, I agree with GM that would be a junta like demode style (imagine Omonoia area full of 70's style 30 stories blocks!!! Or....or.....maybe....Kypseli!!!!!!!!!! :runaway: )

No, a world class city like Athens should have as an example Paris (just with La Defense, because the commie blocks should be avoided by any ways!!!! Fortunately that later kind of architecture was a boom in 60's and 70's and nowadays no city wants them, since they proved to be a failure in the history of residential buildings).

Actually some of them succeeded, like this one in Kifissia...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429229/0/Athens+-+Residential+Complex+Kifissia+1-small800x.jpg


...while in other cases the results were dreadful like this twin tower 18-storey complex in Aghios Nikolaos Acharnon where you need to go on an expedition to fing the exact location of this building...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429251/0/Residential+Twins+-+Aghios+Nikolaos+Acharnon+-+2-From+Lycabettus

In this case, no thanks, I certainly wouldn't like to see a Sao Paulo version of Athens. On the other hand, we are not in the 1970's and we have the know how, the aesthetics and the power to build something better.

Grigori, about the Olympic stadium you are alright and so am I when I point out the case of the Santiago Calatrava bridge in Messogeion Avenue. Unfortunately these are structures which broke the rule still, we need to see a building going ABOVE 30 m or 10 storeys cause this is where the cutoff point is. The stadia and the structures are supposed to be emblematic structures. The juice will be the buildings in my view...

On the other hand, structures like "The Mall" (Not tall but HUGE), the OAKA or the structure in Messogeion - Katehaki junction, point to the right direction, since they "legitimised" big scale construction in this city...

Unfortunately, even in the case that a building will be ready for construction, I am afraid of the reaction of the NIMBYs. Strong stereotypical thinking may constitute a powerful adversary, if the construction company hasn't invested in a strong public relations campaign... Everything counts...

I sudder when i look at such things.

I sudder when i look at such things.

You are not the only one... Imagine this density with a twofold or threefold height... Yaaaaak !!! :runaway:

The first isnt that bad. The second is just crazy!

You post an Idea! We all can!

This is the OFFICIAL Visionary Thread!!!I wish I could :( Well, the truth is that a friend of mine and I put together several drawings/proposals for Kalamata, after the 1986 earthquake. We thought they were good ideas, and VERY forward, but nevertheless hard to implement in a Greek mid-sized city :( However, I NEVER had any ideas about Athens, so I can't offer anything here. I am focusing more on Raleigh, my home since 1992 ;)

Be that way :lol:

They look great in Athens

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20Visual%20Art/KifissiasRoundabout2comp.jpg

The look great in Istanbul too

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2005/11/416059.jpg

:okay:

We dont need Istanbul pics in here but thanks....

Ok I just had a vision! What if that University Tower in Thessaloniki was like double the height? It would be a stunning highrise!

http://tinypic.com/ivzmyx.jpg

How tall is it originally?

45 -50m?

Not more than 35m I'm afraid. But it's a very good design, I noticed it too. This is an unbelievably good rendering BTW. I will come up with pics of the Olympic Stadium and stuff, maybe later. In any case, excellent, this is an exemplary job on this one...

You mean a good rendering is that latest pic? Lol I just used paint.

^ Oh come on, don't be a scrooge

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MetroGardian/several/ivzmyx.jpg

Do you think it would look nicer, if it was taller and a bit wider?

The Design dosent support your height. Sorry.

More Visions from fresh from mind...

http://tinypic.com/iwhdut.jpg

http://tinypic.com/iwhd1l.jpg

Athens is now CRYING for scrapers! All NIMBYS shall be banished to the sea...no wait, the sea is too good for them. Banished to caves!

(Thessaloniki)
http://tinypic.com/iwhe1h.jpg

Excuse my ognorance guys, but what are NIMBYS?

It is an abbreviation meaning: Not In My Back Yard and it mostly refers to the negativists that don't want anything built in the vicinity of their neighbourhood, be it a school (kids are noisy), rehabilitation centre (those druggies will spoil the good image of the neighbourhood), a recycling centre etc.

It is a comprehensive term with rather negative connotation since NIMBYs normally they don't want ANYTHING close to them.

Contrast and compare with special interest and community groups which are much more moderate in their reactions, more conciliatory and less militant and cool with regards to the support of their ideas, and with a more genuine love for their environment than the hardcore, anti-social and extremist NIMBYs.

Look this from Thessaloniki:
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3825/iwhe1h8dp.jpg

I'd love to see Thessaloniki going high ;) but less boxy...Let's say like Naples ( heh, today's banner )

Nice one skylinearth :okay:

It is encouraging to see that 20-30 year old people have more vision than the losers the Greek people elect as their leaders...

Bravo to all of you. Even if the last pic is not exaclty an ideal situation, the spirit is there...

OMG skylineearth! I just came on to post what I have done with the same pic! How scary! :runaway:

I think you just need to get the heights right. Building Tall isnt the best. Id rather density then tall.

This is more realistic:
http://tinypic.com/ix7ghi.jpg

I like the Calatravian lines in the International fair's convention centre. Also, I would make the univessity tower a little taller than the rest of the structures, cause that's how it was meant to be from the start...

Nice rendering...

It is an abbreviation meaning: Not In My Back Yard and it mostly refers to the negativists that don't want anything built in the vicinity of their neighbourhood, be it a school (kids are noisy), rehabilitation centre (those druggies will spoil the good image of the neighbourhood), a recycling centre etc.

It is a comprehensive term with rather negative connotation since NIMBYs normally they don't want ANYTHING close to them.


These types seem to be able to affect too much (ie they have too much power). 131 people stopped construction of AEK's stadium on property THEY own.

Figure it.

Damn, what are the chances of three of us thinking the same thing?
Giorgos, Skylinearth, I too was going to edit that image in a similar way.
Great minds, think a like you know. hehe.

Its just so....Editable! :lol:.

@ GM:

Yea but the shape dsoent allow me to go any taller or it will look over done.

I made this last year..I went crazy on athens lol..I kno it looks terrible..scattered everywhere

http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtryk6/Z

http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtryk6/b

http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtryk67c

I really didn't like the idea to build scrapers in the centre of Athens... But on second thought and after having seen the above pics by Greekguymike, I started getting nasty ideas... :D:D:D

No way! Nice pic but hopefully it will never happen near Centre. The Infrastructure isnt as good as in Maroussi anyways.

Well take the word of an expert, some towers in the last pic are about 400m tall...

Jeez... :eek:

And no, I wouldn't spoil this view. In fact, in the stadia.gr section on architecture we wers talking about tearing down buildings in Central Athens and replacing gthem with 4-storey neoclassical buildings...

Now what about Maroussi or Kifissos Avneue (also known as Narional Road #1? )

YOU GUESS :D:D

But no, central Athens must remain lowrise.

I like the idea. Id love to see neoclassical buildings flood central Athens.

I made these ones this morning..I woke up at 5am and had nothing to do
http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtr9k6Tb

http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtr9k6Tf

Athen dream about skyline and istanbuls skyline is a dream. :)

Athens dream:
http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtr9k6Tf

dream Istanbul:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/stormicy4/5374e35974a64121906df656ebac0593-33.jpg

poor greece :jk:

True :) Nothing bad in dreaming though dont you think?
The title of the thread is misleading , a better one could be "hypothetical athens skyline - possible clusters to be constructed in the future".

Ωραίες οι φωτογραφίες αλλά καλό να είμαστε προσγειωμένοι , ειδικά εσύ gm που είσαι ειδικός στο όλο θέμα.
Εδώ μιλάμε για την απόλυτη μιζέρια της πολυκατοικίας , ας μείνουμε στον πόνο μας και ας αφήσουμε τις photoshoped ιδεατές φωτογραφίες ( εκτός και αν πιστεύουμε ότι πράγματι κάποιος κύριος θα τις κοιτάξει και θα καταλάβει πόσο φανταστικά θα ταίριαζαν στην Αθήνα τα σύγχρονα ψηλά κτήρια... )

Πάντως αυτος δεν θα είναι ο κύριος Σουφλιάς... :lol:

Αυτό είναι σίγουρο...
Παντώς gm επειδή έχεις ένα πάθος με το σουφλιά ( και με το δίκιο σου ) για να είμαστε σωστοί ελπίζω να έλεγες τα ίδια και για όλους τους προηγούμενους ( λαλιώτη , βάσω κτλπ ) οι οποίοι επίσης ήταν βυθισμένοι στη μιζέρια...

Greek guy mike, That is great!

Αυτό είναι σίγουρο...
Παντώς gm επειδή έχεις ένα πάθος με το σουφλιά ( και με το δίκιο σου ) για να είμαστε σωστοί ελπίζω να έλεγες τα ίδια και για όλους τους προηγούμενους ( λαλιώτη , βάσω κτλπ ) οι οποίοι επίσης ήταν βυθισμένοι στη μιζέρια...

Εδώ το πράγμα σηκώνει κουβέντα...

Κατ' αρχήν τάχω χώσει και στους προηγούμενους. Διάβασε εδω πέρα όπως τα έγραψα στις 15 Νοεμβρίου 2005 που τέθηκε το ίδιο θέμα στο φόρουμ του "stadia.gr" στην θεματική ενότητα για τα αεροδρόμια (κλικ ΕΔΩ (http://www.stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70031&highlight=#70031) για να δείτε όλη τη συζήτηση ). Παραθέτω το σχετικό απόσπασμα:

Ο Ελληνικός λαός δεν έπεσε και πολύ έξω στις 20 Μαρτίου 2004. Και αν θέλεις, η απελθούσα κατάσταση είναι υπευθυνη για την υστέρηση που μας οδήγησε να αποκτήσουμε τους σχεδιασμούς του Μετρό του 1980 κατα το 2000. Το θέμα είναι, απο κει και πέρα τι κάνουμε. Και επειδή τη δεκαετία του 80 είμουνα στην ηλικία που είσαστε οι περισσότεροι εδώ πέρα, τα είδα "live" και τις ματαιώσεις των μεγάλων έργων από το ΠΑΣΟΚ της δεκαετίας του 80 με κάποιες τριτοκοσμικές δικαιολογίες όπου πλέον οργίαζαν οι ονειρώξεις με θέμα τις μικρές κλίμακες, την ιδεολογική τρομοκρατία της κατα των ουρανοξυστών, των μεγαλων έργων -"δεν θέλουμε μεγάλα έργα, θα βγούμε στις γειτωνιές με το λαό" κάποιοι έλεγαν τότε. Και πέρναγαν τα χρόνια, και από το 1980 που έγιναν οι πρώτες απαλλοτριώσεις και χωματουργικά έργα για το νέο αεροδρόμιο (όπως και κάποια πηγάδια για το μετρό ) έπρεπε να φτάσουμε στα 1996 για να ξαναμπούνε οι μπουλντόζες στα Σπάτα. Οπότε κανένα κομματικό υπονούμενο, πιστεύω ότι κάνω μια προσπάθεια να είμαι ακριβοδίκαιος ανεξάρτητα από τι ψηφίζω.

Παλιά, ο εφιάλτης μου ήταν οι "δημοκράτες" συνδικαλιστές που μια ακινητοποιούσαν τα αεροσκάφη και δεν πετούσαν γιατι στραμπούληξαν τα μαλακά τους μόρια και μια μας έκαναν τη χάρη και πετούσαν. Θυμάμαι φίλες αεροσυνοδούς που οι αδελφές τους πετούσαν δωρεάν Φρανκφούρτη κάθε Σαββατοκύριακο, μα κάθε Σαββατοκύριακο να δούν το γκόμενο (ξέρω, μόνο αν υπήρχαν θέσεις θα μου πείτε αλλά και πάλι... γιατι να μην πάω εγώ Φρανκφούρτη δωρεάν ή εσεις, ε; :D ), με υπαλλήλους σε γκισε που μασούσαν τσίχλες, δεν ήταν όλα "ρομαντικά" στην Ολυμπιακή ούτε στο Ελληνικό, τα ξέρουμε. Απλά δεν περίμενα τον εφιάλτη της μετριότητας να μου ξανάρθει το 2004, αφού είδαμε και πάθαμε οι προηγούμενοι να αρχίσουν να παράγουν δημόσια έργα, να μας έλθουν οι νύν και να λένε τι τα θέλαμε τα κ@λ@στέγαστρα και τα τραμ. Διότι ναι, έστω και για βιτρίνα, θα περιμενα να δώ στην Αττική οδό και άλλα "Holiday Inn", και άλλα " Ramada" κοντά στο αεροδρόμιο. Αν βρίσκουν πελάτες, καλό μας κάνει, κακό δεν μας κάνει.

Αρκετά πιά με το λαϊκισμό, ή θα σηκώσουμε τα μανίκια να δουλέψουμε για να παράγουμε πλούτο, ή θα βρούμε κάποιο τρίτο να φέρει τα ωραία του λεφτουδάκια και να μας διευκολύνει. Ε λοιπόν για νάρθει αυτός ο τρίτος θα πρέπει να έχει και αεροδρόμια της προκοπής και αεροπορικές εταιρείς της προκοπης, και Business centres της προκοπής, και χαμογελαστούς υπαλλήλους της προκοπης και όχι τους πολλές φορές δυσκοίλιους του πάλαι ποτέ "Ελληνικού".

Και για να τελειώνουμε...

Είναι ακριβώς λόγω του ότι έζησα όλο τον παραλογισμό της δεκαετίας του 80 όπου το μίσος και η εμπάθεια ορισμένων μας στέρησε μια δεκαετία ανάπτυξης και όπου όι μουσάτοι κομισσάριοι είχαν διαχυσει παντού την ΗΛΙΘΙΑ προπαγάνδα του ότι για την Αθήνα πρέπει να υπάρχουν τάχαμ "ανθρώπινες κλίμακες" εννοώντας φυσικά την αγκύλωση του να μοιάζει μια πρωτεύουσα των 3,5 εκατομμυρίων τότε με το μεγαλοχώρι από όπου κατάγονται. Ε λοιπόν παιδιά, πάρτε το χαμπάρι, ή θα αυξήσετε τις κλίμακες για να συμμαζευτεί η "ανάπτυξη" σε ορισμένα σημεία και να ελεχθεί, ή θα έχετε τετραώροφα (που φυσικά δεν μπορείς να ελέγξεις το μέγα πλήθος τόοοσων μικρών οικοδομών ) σε βουνά, κοιλάδες, ρέματα, πεδιάδες και άντε βρες γωνία στο δεκάρικο...

Αυτο είχε σαν αποτέλεσμα την στρεβλή ανάπτυξη όπου αντι να θεσπιστούν ζωνες ελεύθερης δόμησης σε συγκεκριμένα σημεία (διάβαζε λεωφόροι Κηφισίας, Κηφισού, κλπ ) βάλαμε μια ολόκληρη πόλη στο κρεβάτι του προκρούστη και ακόμα συζητάμε αν θα πρέπει σε ορισμένα σημεία να σηκωθεί λίγο το ύψος αντί να αφήνουμε τον κάθε μικροκατασκευαστή της αρπαχτής να χτίζει παντού, μέσα σε γειτωνιές και ανάμεσα σε πολυκατοικίες αλλα εκεί δεν επεμβαίνει κανένας, το θέμα είναι να μην ψηλώσει το κτίριο, από εκεί και πέρα το ότι η αίθουσα συμβουλίου του τριώροφου "συγκροτήματος γραφείων" στην οδό Παραδείσου στο Μαρούσι μπορεί να βλέπει κατευθείαν στην κρεβατοκάμαρα του διπλανού διαμερίσματος και να έχουν έτσι τα συσκεπτώμενα "στελέχη" live amateur sex show αυτο δεν ενοχλεί κανένα.

Δεν λέω ότι οι πρώτοι ουρανοξύστες που χτίστηκαν εν πολλοίς σε βεβαρημένες περιοχές (ωραίος ο Πύργος Αθηνών αλλά βρε παιδιά στους Αμπελοκήπους; Έλεος!!! ) ήταν ότι καλύτερο αν και κατα τη γνώμη μου ο Πύργος κοσμεί μια εν πολλοίς υποβαθμισμένη περιοχή. Από την άλλη, ο πανικός μου έγκειται στο ότι κάθε φορά που πάει να αλλάξει η κατάσταση έρχεται ο τάδε ή ο δείνα εμπαθής και ξαναπάμε 20 χρόνια πίσω.

Γνώμη μου:

Η Αθήνα πρέπει να επαναχωροταξινομηθεί και να θεσπιστουν ελεύθερες ζώνες επιχειρηματικής εκμετάλλευσης. Το να μην αφήνονται οι κατασκευαστές επιτέλους να χτίσουν ψηλά κτιρια σε περιοχές όπως η Κηφισιας ή η Λεωφόρος Κηφισού εν έτει 2005 μόνο θυμηδία μπορεί να προκαλεί. Κανένας μα κανένας επιχειρηματίας δε θέλει να χτίσει κτίριο το οποίο μπορεί να μην αποπερατωθεί ή να μην "βγάλει" τα λεφτά του. Γι' αυτο το λόγο αμφιβάλλω αν κτίρια άνω των 150μ θα χτιστουν στην Αθήνα στο ορατό μέλλον. Τώρα από την άλλη αν στη διαστάυρωση της Λ. Κηφισίας με την Αττική οδό, στην περίφημη στραγγυλή "Τούρτα", με σταθμο του προαστειακού στη μέση, κρίνετε σωστό να χτίζονται διώροφα (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=223051), τι να σας πω βρε παιδιά, μάλλον έχουμε τερατώδη διάσταση απόψεων. Από την άλλη, ας μην πικραινόμαστε όταν οι γείτωνες τελειώνουν τον ένα ουρανοξύστη μετα τον άλλον και μας τη λένε, γιατι φαίνεται ότι εμείς έχουμε επιλέξει αυτή την κατάσταση και μας αρέσει κιόλας.

Οπότε (και αυτο είναι η νέμεση μου ) δεν χαρίζομαι σε κανένα φίλοι μου. Απλά, τους "προηγούμενους" τους είχα "φάει στη μάπα" και περίμενα ότι μια υποτίθεται κυβέρνηση τεχνοκρατών θα έβαζε τα πράγματα στη θέση τους. Γι' αυτό το λόγο καταφέρομαι εναντίον του Σουφλιά γιατι η χώρα δεν αντέχει άλλη μια δεκαετία αρνητισμού αφού οι προηγούμενοι μετά από 20 χρόνια, 100 τρισεκατομμύρια δραχμές μετά από τρία κοινωτικά πλαίσια στήριξης μας έκαναν τη χάρη να μας κάνουν ένα μετρό, ένα αεροδρόμιο και δυο δρόμους και να κομπάζουν κι' από πάνω. Από την άλλη όμως όταν βλέπω το 'σαρακατσάνο" Σουφλιά σαν τον ευθυνόφοβο οπλονόμο στο Ναυτικό να "κομπλάρει" συνεχώς με τη μοναδική βουκολική του χάρη, σαν κάποιος από ψηλά να μας κάνει πλάκα, κάτι παθαίνω...

Και πάλι καλά να λέτε... Αν δεν ήταν οι Ολυμπιακοί ακόμα τώρα η Αττική οδός θα έφτανε στην Ελευσινα...

Θα μπορούσε να ήταν η παραλία του Φαλήρου. Ελα όμως που είναι η περιοχή του Parque das Nacoes στη Λισαβώνα...
Με τις υγείες σας... :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/rael_portugal/Lisbon_Streets_and_Buildings/Lisbon_Aerials/Parque_Nacoes/7019x700.jpg

Is it just me H' i parapano photo einai apo asximi eos kakasximi ?

anempneysta kai psiloasximia "koutia" stis oxthes enos .... elous !

Vive l'Argosaronikos kai o yperlampros attikos ouranos. Os exei einai xilies fores kalyteros apo to parapano "aprosdioristo" psilo katathliptiko prama.

Athen dream about skyline and istanbuls skyline is a dream. :)

Athens dream:
http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qtr9k6Tf

dream Istanbul:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/stormicy4/5374e35974a64121906df656ebac0593-33.jpg

poor greece :jk:
cold and unneccessary joke.. I am eally sorry :sleepy:

Θα μπορούσε να ήταν η παραλία του Φαλήρου. Ελα όμως που είναι η περιοχή του Parque das Nacoes στη Λισαβώνα...
Με τις υγείες σας... :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/rael_portugal/Lisbon_Streets_and_Buildings/Lisbon_Aerials/Parque_Nacoes/7019x700.jpg
btw what is this beauty?

Lisbon, the Park of the Nations district, Portugal

Is it just me H' i parapano photo einai apo asximi eos kakasximi ?

anempneysta kai psiloasximia "koutia" stis oxthes enos .... elous !

Vive l'Argosaronikos kai o yperlampros attikos ouranos. Os exei einai xilies fores kalyteros apo to parapano "aprosdioristo" psilo katathliptiko prama.


I agree.

Sorry, GM, alla i fotografias tis Lisavonas pou exis kanie post leaves nothing to be desired for me. That's my opinion.

I agree.

Sorry, GM, alla i fotografias tis Lisavonas pou exis kanie post leaves nothing to be desired for me. That's my opinion.

Maybe these pics will make you change your mind.

Park of Nations - Lisbon

http://static.flickr.com/12/70123319_27a3d4c12c.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/31/43896571_8e0355a161.jpg?v=0

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/reflex_ssc3/SSC05-11-2005017.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/31/43730032_1b92d0dc4c.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/31/56505514_81d6e667d2.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/32/42044165_fc4a8bac29.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/21/33278358_1e0fb5f645.jpg?v=0

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/andremiguel/AVDJOAOII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/rael_portugal/Updates_obras/SRafael_Lisbon.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/rael_portugal/Lisbon_Streets_and_Buildings/Modern_buildings/pdn_avenida.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/rael_portugal/Lisbon_Streets_and_Buildings/Modern_buildings/pdn_avenida_01.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/andremiguel/AVDJOAOII2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/andremiguel/AVDJOAOII9.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/andremiguel/PDNnorte2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/andremiguel/PavAtlantico2.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/35/74059748_a6cc1616ec.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/38/74059733_5a902ea59e.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/20/73330299_d872c2d2b1.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/34/73330483_a8741d77cf.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/36/74059644_7841242efc.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/20/74059651_618600e6e1.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/37/74059589_5c30bfc5d7.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/39/74059576_8e513f3a6f.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/39/74059564_a451cecb62.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/38/74059596_1ed3e4e661.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/23/39276687_849f835667.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/32/52488246_019a1f4c32.jpg?v=0

The aerial shot doesnst do it justice it seems.

@Paulo: This isnt a Lisbon thread! If you have something to say to LEAFS FANTIC then send it to him over PM and stop flooding the thread!

Just to put some things in order:

From what I see, this area must be a bit like the Neon Faliron suburb in terms of location. Anyway, I like it because, if not for anything else, two of the most beautiful towers in Europe the twin San Raphael (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=111607) and San Gabriel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=111606) towers are located amongst other samples of beautiful architecture. Of particular importance is the Vasco da Gama Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=111608) while to the best of my knowledge, the scenery is completed with the Vasko da Gama bridge, one of the longest in the world.

In contrast, I am sorry to do laundry in public but we are still delaying the post-olympic development of the coastal zone from Palaion to Neon Phaleron where the setting IS amazing but still, I don't see any activity except for a complex consisting of two buildings and an entertainment - shopping centre built by the Babis Vovos (http://www.babisvovos.gr) construction company. This is what I am talking about.

Now as to whether Paulo could have posted less pics or not, this is true but I need to remind everyone here about how we were reacting when somebody was making negative comments about our Olympic installations or whatever.

After all, Lisbon is an utterly beautiful city, so I was told by people who have been there on the occasion of the 2004 Euro football games. And this is not a "strictly" Athens thread, we are simply having a general discussion by putting images of our computer-generated visions.

Just to clarify things, I like Lisbon and all the pics that Paulo posted.
My comment was based on the one waterfront pic that was posted. It just didn't do anything for me and I was trying to say that Athens' waterfront can be planned better if the decision is ever made to change it. Actully, I like it theway it is now.

I think Athens should in fact hold a future world exposition. These events have made wonders to cities' renovations and permit the construction of new taller buildings that otherwise wouldn't be.

It's true that the aerial pic doesn't do much for the area. In fact its colours are too bright which does not correspond to reality.

Here is a photo of the area before expo98:

http://lisboa.kpnqwest.pt/gifs/ar/ar-05.jpg

Happy new year to you all!! :)

Happy new year dear friend. All the best... :cheers:

Happy New Year to you too Paulo!

Too bad Thessaloniki missed out on Expo 2008. Apparently they bidding team KNEW it was falling behind and did NOTHING to improve it's chances.

LOOK what the Expo did for Lisbon.

Great pics. It's no secret Athens could learn something from Lisbon's urban planning.

Thessaloniki can become a world exhibition centre, something that probably is underway with the new designs by Calatrava for the site of the existing site of the international fair. However, we should wait for the big infrastructure works of Thessaloniki to begin in order to see more progress for the Nymph of the North.

Athens on the other hand is ideal for conventions and sports events.

And in order not to forget that we are talking about one of the most privileged areas in Europe, here are three aerial [pics of the particular spot taken by the photographer Daniilidis:

http://www.daniilidis.gr/main/olympic/images/500_51.jpg

http://www.daniilidis.gr/main/olympic/images/faliro_090604.jpg

We are talking about one of the best coastal fronts in the world my friends.... One of the best.

http://www.daniilidis.gr/main/olympic/images/faliro2_090604.jpg

Beauty isn't it?

I dont get what the World Expo is.