CALATRAVA TO REBUILD THE ITF EXHIBITION CENTERThessaloniki, 13 September 2005 (16:31 UTC+2)

Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava will undertake to rebuild the Thessaloniki International Trade Fair exhibition center.

In a meeting held before the inauguration of this year's ITF, Mr. Calatrava presented his ideas to the ministers of Development and Macedonia-Thrace, the Deputy Minister of Finance, local authorities and the heads of the management of ITF and HELEXPO.

According to the Thessaloniki daily Angelioforos, the reconstruction plans will include the wider area around the ITF grounds namely, the under construction City Hall, the two museums -Byzantine and Archaeological- and the university campus, having as an ultimate goal to move the city center to the specific area.

The plans also include the construction of a tower-symbol and a conference center for major events as well as the nighttime lighting of the city.

This is exciting! But then this:

Calatrava criticism
www.ekathimerini.com
News in Brief

The redevelopment of a 28-hectare expanse in central Thessaloniki should have been assigned on the basis of an international competition, the city's Mayor Vassilis Papageorgopoulos told the municipal council yesterday. The project was assigned to Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, who designed the Athens Olympics complex. Calatrava's proposal cannot materialize without the approval of the municipality, which owns 50 percent of the expanse, Papageorgopoulos said.

If you have any info post it here.

I don't believe anything anymore... Especially when i read names like Papageorgopoulos etc.

Same story every year, before the exhibition start, great projects announced, then again silence. Happened this year, will happen the next year.

It's getting annoying.

:( Why does this happen?

Because Greeks like talking.

^^
Well put.

I think whats needed is the Greek business people/millionares etc, from abroad, need to invest in such projects. Perhaps then the locals will see the value in such things, and do it on thier own?..just a thought.

I personally think the Greeks of Diaspora are much more open minded interms of Investments and such so I believe that If these Greeks all trid there hardest, we could make a better Greece.

Just look in Australia. Theres so many Rich Greek Skyscraper builders! :D

In Adelaide alone theres Makris and Polites (though he died)
In Melbourne theres Stamoulis and several other smaller people.
On the Gold Coast, theres Raptis who is responsible for several Buildings including the former tallest, Towers of Chevron Reneissance.

If these people invested in Greece and opened the eyes of some others, maybe Greece would be more opened to large investments and projects such as this.

I think whats needed is the Greek business people/millionares etc, from abroad, need to invest in such projects. Perhaps then the locals will see the value in such things, and do it on thier own?..just a thought.

Like this Alexakis guy and his bid for Olympic Airlines (though he was only representing Olympic Investors). Did he EVER get a credible reason why his bid was rejected ? (Other than the fact that the government and the unions are messing around).

The best things they can do (Greek business/ millionaires) is vacation in Greece.

This "THEIA AP'TO CHICAGO" syndrome is not working. If they want investmnets they should attract investments (not greek charities from abroad).

I hear that the next big thing in Greek investments is Golf Courses.

Imagine if Makris took his $100 mill proposed hotel, and built it in Greece. Wonder how the nimbys would react eh re Giorgio?

Poliochni, of course if they want people to invest, they need to attract them.
What I was attempting to say was that perhaps what is needed is some successfull Greeks from abroad to do something big in Greece, for the successfull in Greece to see the potential and value. Or even one of the various shipping tycoons for that matter. Im sure they would have the influence and ability to get something through if there was opposition to it.

I dunno. I always thought the NIMBYS dont get any worse than Adelaide, but maybe I was wrong.

We need to wait and see. However, the Nimby syndrome is alive and kicking in Greece. Click here to feel the negativist, even if on 10% of ehat exiets here thay may be right...

http://www.asda.gr/elxoroi/elxoroi.htm

Polys arnitismos vre paidi mou...

awww...

I cant be bothered Reading in Greek! Im not a fast reader in Greek and theres too much text! Can anyone sum it up?

I meant how the Nimbys here in Adelaide who rejected the proposal.

George. there is simply a continuous flow of negativism, this is a nimby's page, you won't see any proposals or anything, only dont's, dont's, dont's

oh. I dunno how would they react? There so thick they wouldnt know the impact.

Δείτε:
http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=41146504

Sorry but I didn't find an english edition of the article.

I am keenly watching the news regarding this. It seems that at least the site of the International fair will be fully renovated. Splendid, it is a very privileged place in a very central location of the city and with the university campus next to it.

I also hope they will be the 150m observation deck/ tower they talked about in the original plans... :)

Looks like Santa brought some new towers in his bag for Thessaloniki, I wish they have a some metters more than 50!!!!

I wish more than 150!

Looks like Santa brought some new towers in his bag for Thessaloniki, I wish they have some metters more than 50!!!!

Did you post it again on purpose? :?

Anyway, Is there a hight limit in Thessaloniki?

Looks like I pressed it twice! and in the meanwhile someone else was posting also and my post was repeated, sorry.

If Greece wants Hellenes of the Diaspora to invest in Greece, it needs to do something about the Greek tax policy-which is prohibitive like most of Europe. Americans, in particular, are not going to sink investments into a nation where the taxes (income, VAT, etc.) amount to 50-60% of profits. Hellenes around the world are patriotic, but they want a reasonable ROI when they slap down their hard-earned dollars/Euro's/whatever.

Greeces' tax structure is marginally better than the overly socialist nations of northern Europe, but still not competitive. The Greek Government needs to do more to attract foreign investment, particularly from Hellenes around the world.-

Just look at Israel. They have very low taxes and there booming.

Just an Article from my Local Paper in Adelaide Australia. Its got nothing to do with Greece However Look at all the names mentioned:

Our city skyline's $6bn move upward
By LOUISE TRECCASI
06jan06

ADELAIDE'S skyline will be transformed by up to $6 billion in city developments after the biggest changes to planning laws in 30 years.

New city development rules allowing taller buildings and more apartments came into effect yesterday and developers are preparing an expected $1 billion worth of major project plans this year alone.

Adelaide City Council says the new changes will add an extra 1.4 million sq m of floor space with the potential to create $5.8 billion worth of development.

The height increases vary across the city. The biggest variation is in the Central Market precinct where heights will be allowed to increase from 17m to 40m - a rise of about five storeys.

However, there are no increases in height restrictions in established residential areas such as North Adelaide. The changes also address noise control and provide increased protection for the parklands.

Developers told The Advertiser yesterday they had been waiting for the General and Park Lands Plan Amendment Report to come into effect before submitting their applications.

While some of the plans have been knocked back in the past, developers are confident of gaining approval following the new changes.

Developer Theo Samaras said he would submit a new application for a $50 million retail and office development at the former Repco site on the corner of King William and Gilles streets. The 10-storey project would measure up to 40m high.

Karidis Corporation director Gerry Karidis said he would soon submit long-awaited altered plans for a retail and office development at the former Hutt St hospital. His plans are for a five-level building on the corner of Hutt and Angas streets. The project, up to $20 million, would feature retail, offices and 40 apartments with basement car parking.

Developer Theo Maras said he would "definitely" submit new plans for a residential and retail development project in the East End, between the Stag Hotel and Union St, and a mixed-use development at his 2800sq m site on the corner of King William and Sturt streets.

Developer George Kambitsis co-controls major city sites including the 6000sq m, $140 million Flinders Link site in Flinders St and the 2000sq m former Adelaide creche site in Gouger St, near the Central Market.

The Flinders Link consortium is already building the headquarters for Santos Ltd and the Insurance Australia Group. "The changes give me an opportunity later in the year to undertake a city development I may not have been able to do," Mr Kambitsis said.

This is an Example of Diaspora in Australia. So many Greek Buildiers it seriously isnt funny. Just take this article as an example. and I can name several more that work in Adelaide alone.

So If greece was more open to developments, Im sure people like this would be willing to invest.

Giorgo also don't count out the Greek Americans active in Real Estate:

http://www.ontarioplacecondos.com/News/forbes.php

http://www.invsco.com/

The Gouletas family (arriving in the US in the fifties) made their fortune by converting apartments into condos - how earth shattering and innovative is that !! - and yet in the early 1970's the common Greek concept of "owning" your apartment was a novel idea in the US.


This one is my favorite property in their portfolio:

Lakepoint Tower designed by Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. The only condominium east of Lake Shore Drive, the world's tallest residential building(70 stories) is situated on Chicago's most coveted and panoramic real estate location.

http://www.invsco.com/Images/photos/Lptext.gif

Q1 is the worlds tallest Residential.

We definately do not need high residential buildings in Greece...
However a building like this would be ideal for a ministry for example.
I think sooner or later Thessaloniki will be so packed, that highrises will solve the problem.

I wasnt suggesting that we needed tall residentials in Greece.

Btw, Welcome to the forum.

O DHMARXOS MILISE !!!! Na perimenoume kai ton Nomarxi ???

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=27334048

Τώρα έτσι και εκφραστώ όπως πραγματικά πιστευω σχετικά για το τι πρέπει να κάνει ο Δήμαρχος θα προκαλέσω.

Στην Ελλάδα πρέπει τα πάντα να περνάνε από τις μυλόπετρες των συμφερόντων. Οι πόλεις να μοιάζουνε επαρχιακές, να μη γίνεται τίποτα για να μη θιγούν 10 συμφέροντα.

Δεν είναι τίποτα... Όταν θα μας έχους πάρει τα βρακιά το Ζάγκρεμπ (και οι πολλοί κροάτες του Φόρουμ είναι και αντιπαθέστατοι με τον ανθελληνισμό τους ) και τα Τίρανα θα τα ξαναπούμε...

http://www.thessalonikifotonews.gr/DIMOS-THESS/thema194/Image3.html

Pics that made me feel good......for a while :(

O DHMARXOS MILISE !!!! Na perimenoume kai ton Nomarxi ???

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=27334048


What a shame! Telios Rezili!!!

Ï äÞìáñ÷ïò ôá ìáãáæéÜ ðïõ ôá åßäå; Ãéáôß Ý÷ù ôçí åíôýðùóç üôé ç ( áñíçôéêÞ ) óôÜóç ðïõ êñáôÜåé ùò ðñïò ôçí áíÜðëáóç ôçò ÄÅÈ Ý÷åé Üìåóç-Ýììåóç ó÷Ýóç ìå ôéò ðñïóå÷Ýò äçìïôéêÝò åêëïãÝò;

O dimarxos AN POTE apofasisei ti tou ginetai, as mas pei !

Exairetiki i idea tou synedriou kai eidika i proboli / sygrisi tis anaptyxis toy kentrou allon poleon tou megethous tis Thessalonikis. Isos etsi o Dimarxos dei kai ligo pera apo ti myti tou. Oxi pos elpizo se kamia dramatiki allagi pleysis.

O anthropos eipame koptetai gia tous idi yparxontes katastimatarxes tou kentrou !

Anyway, xairomai pou i dioikisi tis DE8 kai oi foreis ginontai pio "epithetikoi".

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=78500592

I recently found these awesome renderings about Calatravas plans:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1655/484484025d34dc30c0ozg1.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8244/484483679ff37acc18ovy4.jpg

The 150m proposed tower:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2672/4844833380019cd40doqc7.jpg

Really amazinghttp://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/eek2.gif

how far is the project? Approved?

how far is the project? Approved?

Not yet, we still hope.

Thanks for finding renders! Brilliant work!

But they arnt happening. :(

Err..., allow me to disagree here...

With the exception of the brilliant tower (which should have a restaurant and an observation deck at the top) the rest of the proposal doesn't impress me.

First of all, whilst the Athens Olympic complex was compatible with the Athenian landscape, this looks dull. A series of repeated indoor domes, as if the project was to be built in a Canadian city where the temperatures are below 0 C for months. No empty spaces, no atriums, no imagination, just a series of repeated airport hangar-type buildings.

How come he never thought of the need of open spaces? How come he didn't think that Thessaloniki is a mediterranean city where "Le soleil est un roi sans sommeil" (in French "The sun is never resting)?

Think again guys, this is a nightmare and I am surprised that Senior Calatrava thought of something like that whereas things would have been a lot better if he simply copied/pasted his work in Valencia.

No empty spaces, lakes or squares, just repeated airport hangars? No sir, I think I will pass... :(

Huh?
Look at all the open areas by the shore.

I think there is plenty of open spaces personally.

Maybe it's a mistake, Calatrava didn't say anything about these domes.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2672/4844833380019cd40doqc7.jpg

Well, of course I don't like them, of course the tower is a real gem, there is no doubt about that...

;10349896']Look at all the open areas by the shore.

These areas are already open now. This is not a proposal of Caltrava! The project of Calatrava has to do mainly with the reformation of Thessaloniki International Fair and "G Soma Stratou" areas. Unfortunately, an open area in Calatrava's project was destroyed by the new Town Hall.

Maybe it's a mistake, Calatrava didn't say anything about these domes.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2672/4844833380019cd40doqc7.jpg

Well, of course I don't like them, of course the tower is a real gem, there is no doubt about that...

I don't know what we can really tell from these things until we see some actual rendering not just featureless models. I love the tower and the path, my wish is to see water and green incorporated in any design.

Because Greeks like talking.

:lol:

Too bad the new municipality building has been built on the axis of calatravas plan. Such a shame. That plot is so dominant, and should have become a 100% public area, whilst at the same time providing good circulation for traffic + parking.

As long Thessalonikis political world is like it is now nothing like this will happen...!!!! They are resistant when it comes to good developments for Thessaloniki.. and this makes me .... :gaah:

Too bad the new municipality building has been built on the axis of calatravas plan. Such a shame.

Sometimes i feel certain Greeks have a city's future last on the agenda.. The delay in Athens park aswell is a shame.

As long Thessalonikis political world is like it is now nothing like this will happen...!!!! They are resistant when it comes to good developments for Thessaloniki.. and this makes me .... :gaah:

You mean they are resistant when it comes to any development.

What is sad is projects like this are the difference between an important artistic city and a normal city. I so want Salonika to have a head turning project like this, but alas..Hellas..

ellections will come...! psomiadis and papageorgopoulos tremble!!