Starting a thread for the Dupont Plaza Towers. UPDATED DAILY!

December 20, 2005
http://www.RebelStar.somee.com/SSC/Dupont Plaza/12-20-05.jpg

Someone mentioned it could be the Dupont Sales center, but seems to big to be a sales center if you ask me.

^seems to small for the real towers.

these have taken soooooo fukin long, and i think thats the sales center, not even the tower

i say its the sales center cuz the foundation was shallow, theres no elevator core and the columns r too little to bear 40+ floors load (look @ met1 structure for comparison in pic) plus Epic is the west (1st) of the duponts so this is prob just a sales center.............what a jip

At least there is some activity on the sight though, that is a positive.

I don't think the actual tower was supposed to start much before June '06.

Man you guys sure know your stuff about buildings. Atleast theres some activity, i'll keep this thread updated till the 2 towers are completed + the sales center. Anyone have any renders on the sales center? I really would love to see how it looks.

http://www.miami-realestate.net/images/dupont_towers.jpg

Seriously, it looks like the far right side of the right tower. You guys sure it's the sales center? wheres the tower going 2 fit then?. It's starting to take exact shape as the right tower!. You guys better be right, sorry for the old render.

Well, I think they'd have to dismatle the sales center and then dig a big hole to start the actual tower.

Just one more example of 'developers time'. Add a year to their projected timelines.

If they build the sales center and then demolish it to start the building then officialy whoever is the developer deserves to be shot in the face for 2 things.

1. Huge waste of money.

2. Huge waste of time.

Way to go!

the developers dont really care,just ask fortune international which spent like 5million dollars on a sales center for two towers which were already basically sold out.

If they build the sales center and then demolish it to start the building then officialy whoever is the developer deserves to be shot in the face for 2 things.

1. Huge waste of money.

2. Huge waste of time.

Way to go!

Sounds like we'll be shooting a lot of developers then.

:mad2: :tongue: :bleep: :devil: :nono: >( :no: :rant: :moods: :skull: :bash:

Whos the developer doing these towers? probably good for nothing rich dude.
Heres the progress on the "SALES CENTER" <-- :bleep:
December 21, 2005
http://www.RebelStar.somee.com/SSC/Dupont Plaza/12-21-05.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=239045
DuPont Towers Sales Center


These renderings show the preliminary design of the sales center for the DuPont Towers (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=235740) that is being designed by an interior design Italian firm that is also doing some design work at the Grovenor House (http://www.grovenorhouse.com/index_mkt.htm), now under construction in Coconut Grove, Florida

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1665/prova1copia2of.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7356/prova24qf.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9273/prova30wh.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8475/prova47kz.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6906/pianta9py.jpg

:)


Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

I cant believe there going to demolish that...

If they build the sales center and then demolish it to start the building then officialy whoever is the developer deserves to be shot in the face for 2 things.
1. Huge waste of money.
2. Huge waste of time.
Way to go!That's right, Fortune's Multi million dollar Jade Beach/Jade Ocean Sales Center will likely go down towards the end of Jade Ocean construction. How about the $200,000 Mother of all Scale Models? Meepy, you can't even LIVE in it!!!! What a waste of money.
Ridiculous...Ugo Columbo and Edgardo Defortuna must not know what they are doing...rather than go on a shooting spree, get into their biz Meepy and show them how it's done!!!
http://www.restainer.com/skyscrapers/jadebeach_scalemodel2.jpg

I'am pretty sure I can buy any apartment being built in downtown Miami. If I can live in a $360k 2 story home in Miami Lakes. That being said I would drop kick that shitty model straight in the uterus for being worth $200k.

*SMART THINKING*

Why not build the first story of the building and furnish it?, and then continue to build the rest of the floors after sales have sold out. Instead of building the first floor of the building and demolishing it like idiots.

Now, that guy deserves 2 drop kicks.
1 to the back of the skull for making a $200k model made of staraphon and plastic.

1 more for being called Ugo Columbo.

You would drop kick the 'Mother of all scale models' in the uterus? Where would all the new scale models come from?

You would drop kick the 'Mother of all scale models' in the uterus? Where would all the new scale models come from?

Ugo Suckalot might build the rest. After I dropkick him in the back of the skull!

Okay, now we're backing away from 'shot in the face' to 'dropkicks to the back of the skull'. I guess we're well on our way to domesticating weepy. Before long, he'll be just an average insufferably rude Miamian !

:) lol

Definitely sales center being built. Drove by today. They are supposed to start on the western building first. Anyways, developers usually build extravegant sales centers. How long was 10 Museum park's sales center up?

^ i think 10MPs center was up for about a year and 900 biscaynes is going to set a record for longevity - it could become the freedom tower sales center soon - is it the same development/ownership group?

If they build the sales center and then demolish it to start the building then officialy whoever is the developer deserves to be shot in the face for 2 things.

1. Huge waste of money.

2. Huge waste of time.

Way to go!
If i had the money to build an expensive, beautifully styled sales center, knowing full well that it only be demolished sometime later... then i would build the most bad ass lookin sales center, for one reason and one reason only... because i freaking CAN. Isn't there a saying--'In order to make money, you have to spend money'?

actually the musp (multi use special permit) expires in two years if they dont build anything so something needs to go up. otherwise they have to go back trough the musp permiting phase and the second time around the city might not let them have as many units or certain height...etc...

I'am pretty sure I can buy any apartment being built in downtown Miami. If I can live in a $360k 2 story home in Miami Lakes. That being said I would drop kick that shitty model straight in the uterus for being worth $200k.

*SMART THINKING*

Why not build the first story of the building and furnish it?, and then continue to build the rest of the floors after sales have sold out. Instead of building the first floor of the building and demolishing it like idiots.

Now, that guy deserves 2 drop kicks.
1 to the back of the skull for making a $200k model made of staraphon and plastic.

1 more for being called Ugo Columbo.

Cant do that Meepy, there would be some major insurance issues with having people come into a building under construction. Plus there is the one upsmanship that goes with this.

*SMART THINKING* Why not build the first story of the building and furnish it?, and then continue to build the rest of the floors after sales have sold out. Instead of building the first floor of the building and demolishing it like idiots.
Wow Meepy! I'll bet that the developers never thought of that. They sure are idiots.
I'm telling you, you ought to go compete against those guys...
But Meepy, in order to occupy a building, don't you need to have a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy for the whole structure? Yeah...you do...so how could your plan of occupying the first floor when the whole structure isn't safe going to work out?? Oh forget it...just a minor detail.
I still think you would be a genius developer with all your fresh ideas and propensity to shoot or drop kick your comptetion.
Plus, Meepy is so much more paletable than Ugo.

^ i think 10MPs center was up for about a year and 900 biscaynes is going to set a record for longevity - it could become the freedom tower sales center soon - is it the same development/ownership group?Actually, building expensive sales centers is not the norm. 10 Museum Park (Gregg Covin, dev.) had a nice sales center up for about 6 months. Those were about 3 modular GE rental mobile homes stuck together. Related sales centers (Murano, Murano Grande, Icon, & Icon Brickell) are also modified mobile homes. Related just remodled the interiors of the same trailers and moved them from site to site on South Beach. 900 Biscayne (Terra/Pedro Martin) sales center is a mobile home. Ivy/Mint is using office space in the developers corporate HQ, and the Avenue/Axis/Brickell on the River/Capital Towers all use leased office/retail space.
To my knowledge, only Fortune's Jade Beach, Jade Ocean, and Ugo's Epic have actually designed and are building freestanding new construction sales centers.
Not just because they can. Developers, like most businessmen, don't like to spend money on something that doesn't provide value.

loool funny topic, sales centers, what happened to the clasic sales center in the 4 seasons, or on some 40th floor "office" in a newly constructed building

Wow Meepy! I'll bet that the developers never thought of that. They sure are idiots.
I'm telling you, you ought to go compete against those guys...
But Meepy, in order to occupy a building, don't you need to have a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy for the whole structure? Yeah...you do...so how could your plan of occupying the first floor when the whole structure isn't safe going to work out?? Oh forget it...just a minor detail.
I still think you would be a genius developer with all your fresh ideas and propensity to shoot or drop kick your comptetion.
Plus, Meepy is so much more paletable than Ugo.

Well to tell you the truth I didnt understand much of what you wrote. It seems like there where alot of typeo's and mispells and I cant make much of it out. But with what I was able to rationalize it seems to have something to do with a safety? and something else you put there that I cant comprehend.
I dont do sarcasim well, and it seems like you love to point out you'r facts in that matter; most likely thats what is making it so hard to understand. Like I said before, there has to be a way to build a salescenter. Then after everyone has visited your salescenter and you are done selling out, instead of demolishing it, build upon it. Sure these guys thought about it I mean with a name like Ugo what hasnt the guy thought about?, they just dont have the lawyers to do it. How is the structure not safe? thats like saying the first story of skyscrapers isnt safe stay away from there. With a good disclosure notice, contracts, and a crack team of lawyers, I bet Ugo would be able to easily get around the Temporary Certificate of Occupancy. One more thing, you seriously make alot of errors when you type, slow down. I might be wrong but paletable isnt a word, I think you where trying to say palatable?.
And yea I would be palatable, I think the standards are much to high for the consturction of high-rises and any building at that.

Yeah...you do...so how could your plan of occupying the first floor when the whole structure isn't safe going to work out??

No idea what you typed here, I dont understand what you typed here, and I sure cant make out what you typed here. "Safe", "work out", "first floor"; Thats all I can really put along, So to my understanding I'll add the very important commas and period.

Yeah... You do... So how could your plan of occupying the first floor, when the whole structure isn't safe; hows that going to work out??

Who said I'am building anything on top of this 'First Floor'. Put a roof on it, make it look like a nice little sales center, and then when sales are over I would just top off the roof and build my structure on. I would even get a head start and save the so called '$300k'. Sure Ugo Columbo has well into the millions of dollars in his richs, but a smart investor never wastes money, I would show Bill Gates as a good example. Ugo Columbo CEO of CMC has only a few projects under his belt compared to other development firms, I mean I could imagine how a man with a bachlers degree could be so succesfull and rich!, CMC doesnt even stack up on the top 100 development firms in America. But then again? who am I to say Ugo Columbo is a huge waste of money, I mean com'on!

^ Yeah, Roark. It did have lots of 'typeos'. And our friend Meepy doesn't take kindly to your 'sarcasim'. So i'd watch my back if I were you. He might kick you in the back of your skull or something like that. ;)

^ Yeah, Roark. It did have lots of 'typeos'. And our friend Meepy doesn't take kindly to your 'sarcasim'. So i'd watch my back if I were you. He might kick you in the back of your skull or something like that. ;)

And then there where people who take jokes to far...

EDIT:

Damn, not having City vs. City has taken it's toll on me. No where to unleash my forum anger anymore..

"NEW YORK IS SO MUCH COOLER THEN HONHKONG LIKE 200% OMGWTFBBQ!?"

bring it back admins!! I need 2 protest some more in New York vs. Hong Kong threads!

Hey! Heres an Idea!

Lets Get Back on Topic...

Great idea Toucano, and here it is. The status on the Dupont Plaza "sales center" I quote that becouse we are still in mishap.

http://www.Rebelstar.somee.com/SSC/Dupont%20Plaza/12-22-05.jpg

Lots of construction workers!

Remember to check the Met 1 thread for the progress of Metropolitan Miami 1

Wow ! More construction workers on the sales center than on Met 1.

Thats going to be finshed in like 3 more days. Only 2 storys and they did the first story in less then 2 days. And from that pic you can see them setting the metal bearings which hold the colums in place for the 2nd floor.

Hey! Heres an Idea!

Lets Get Back on Topic...

HAHA! I like that idea Toucano. You are always the voice of reason. Back to the cranes batman. :cheers:

Any developer with the financial clout to build a freestanding DuPont/Epic Sales center and then destroy it must have strong finances. If he put a sales tent or a trailer, I might be afraid to invest $2Million on a 2 bedroom apartment (do you understand yet Meepy?).
Hats off to the devleopers that go the extra mile. Some will say that they do it because they have money to burn, I say, they have money to burn because they go the extra mile.
The guys that build expensive freestanding sales centers like the ones on the Dupont site (see...on topic), are responsible for all three of the most luxurious skyscrapers on Brickell in the late 1990's until now. That probably doesn't mean anything to the Meepy or his new age business model, but they are just the facts. :)

I have allready understood the reason for these 'Sales Centers' *shakes his fist*. I'am just trying to state an opinion, I mean you have to admit it's not to bad of an idea.

And we are filling this damn thread with sh*t. And here I go to reply again, damn my hand, it just needs 2 click 'reply'!

I agree. We need to get back on topic. Anybody heard anything on Met 3 ? ;)

Nope, I think Met Square will be built after Met 1 tough..

Update on Dupont sales center:

December 23, 2005
http://www.RebelStar.somee.com/SSC/Dupont%20Plaza/12-23-05.jpg

Damn it looks lonely at the Dupont Sales center, Met 1 has way more activity. And it looks like they didnt get anything done.

I don't think the actual tower was supposed to start much before June '06.

The foundations for the west tower will start early 2006. Doors and windows installation is scheduled to start in the middle of the year.

If they build the sales center and then demolish it to start the building then officialy whoever is the developer deserves to be shot in the face for 2 things.
1. Huge waste of money.
2. Huge waste of time.
Way to go!

Mr. Colombo owns the construction firm, glazing company and most of the infrastructure to build these towers, so actually this sales center does not cost him much.

as time goes by his asking price for units goes up which is a good thing for him....

^^ so does the chance that the market will get saturated and his units wont sell.

^ So does the chance that saturation will come true, some year, if we keep on supposing it. ;)

if you can find a market that has never had one I will stop saying one is coming :D

and was surpised that Ugo is reportedly spending $4.5 million on his sales centre when in fact this project seems to be selling itself. However, the Epic East is bigger and the prices will be significantly higher so maybe it will pay off when the going gets tougher.

Also,remember that impressing that one extra $5 million penthouse client will immediately pay for the entire sales centre and the total project cost is estimated at over $700 mil.
(His initial plan was to use the old Grovenor House sales office until the new one is ready but it fell apart in transit and is now considered junk even though it made it somehow to the new site...)

why is this project valued so high,700million?

This is the number being thrown around in the sales office along with 10% cost for glass alone ($70 mil) and $4.5 mil for sales centre. The project does have well over 1000 units when you consider the 5 star hotel and I believe Ugo paid a lot to buy his share of the project 1 year ago. Lionstone already owned the land but maybe he paid like $50 million to get a 50% stake from the previous partner who sold out when prices started escalading last year. Not sure since it is not disclosed on the on-line city property records...

xx

Last info that I had Epic had a phase one with 370 condo and 403 condo-hotel units. Phase II has 596 condo units.
In all, 1,269 units at a total project sell out of $767 Million. That works out to $604,413 per unit.

bs considering that 4 seasons cost 300mil and that the the met square cost about the same for 3 towers and one movie cinema...

bs considering that 4 seasons cost 300mil and that the the met square cost about the same for 3 towers and one movie cinema...I know that you probably think it's "bs" at first, but if you think about it a bit more, it will make sense.
Epic has 773 hotel or hotel condo rooms. Hotels have beds and televsions and curtains and carpet and wallpaper and refridgerators, and...you get the idea. The furnishings are included in the project cost, FF&E, or Furniture, Fixtures & Equipment.
When comparing to a mixed use building like Four Seasons remember that office space is delivered without even drywall, no A/C, no nothing. It's called a plain grey shell. The tenant has to build that out (and pay for it).
When comparing to a mixed use like a movie theatre, then the cost per square foot is way more inexpensive than a fully furnished luxury hotel rooms. Not a whole helluva lot of granite flooring in a movie theatre, and only about 10 sinks in 30,000 sq ft of space.

Most condos are delivered only with a complete Kitchens and baths. There is no flooring, no real light fixtures, and primer on the walls.

BUT 4 seasons is apples and oranges for reasons already stated and the fact that there is not 1 single balcony in that building versus hunderds of thousands of sq ft of glass enclosed balconies in the epic. also, the 2004 Four Seasons was built when construction and land values were about half of what the 2008 Epic is facing.

As for the Met it may be worth comparing although the land was a lot cheaper and I trust that if they budgeted only 700 million they will end up far exceeding since these are not experienced luxury condo builders and it is already showing with their plans in flux to the point where all condos in Met 2 are being scrapped. Offices will help them bring down their balooning expenses which I believe would eventually top 1 Billion unless they cut back like in the Met 2 segway.
On the other hand, I believe that when Columbo sets a budget it is very accurate through completion since he moves very slowly initially in order to price out every last detail and lock in costs up front. Also, he owns the building side of the operation and this creates an efficiency and trust that cannot be underestimated. Finally, Columbo is doing what he does best (and it is also all he does) and he has perfected his system over the past 15 years. For the hotel section, Lionstone is doing what they do best so everyone is specialized in this project.
MDM has never undertaken anything even remotely similar to this monster project, as far as I know (i could be wrong).
Having said that I only hope for the best for all developments, the success of MET is crucial for everyone investing in downtown...

Well my FTP off my server has been down for the past week now, and they havnt emailed me. So it seems no more pics untill I can find a server to upload to, I dont do free services like Putfile, ext; to picky over the Bandwidth. :ohno:

Time to go find a new server! :spam1: :pepper:

Found a new server, and I just finshed uploading the backup images trough the FTP.

December 23, 2005
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/12-23-05.jpg

December 24, 2005
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/12-24-05.jpg

December 30, 2005
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/12-30-05.jpg

January 2, 2006
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/1-2-06.jpg

January 8, 2006
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/1-8-06.jpg

January 10, 2006
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/1-10-06.jpg

And a bonus image thanks to Roark!
http://rebelstar.0moola.com/images/SC/Dupont/dupontsite.JPG

Have a good one!

So that is for sure just the sales office right? And how's the Met1 doing? When's it expected to be finished? Have they finished the first part of the building yet? I can't wait to start seeing the mets and dupont going up. It's strange how all those buildings are fitting there in that small amount of space.

Kevin Met 1 is under construction in the picture above your posting. Its the site with the large crane.