Can someone explain to me please how planning permisson can be obtained for an important project, on a fundemental site, in a city centre conservation area when the project does not involve an architect and was by all accounts designed by a QS................ and looks like it.

Yes I'm refering to the building that replaces Thomson's old offices

Good grief, what's the point in working to make sure that what you propose as an architect in your own city has a rigour and integrity if stuff like this gets approved?

Or more to the point: why does it seem the more money and time you spend on detail of a development the more difficult it is to get it through planning?

Could it be a simple matter that our planning system is so bogged down/over-stretched that planners have difficulty coming to terms with and forming an understanding of detailed, high-spec proposals meaning that Unicorns have to jump through hoops yet half-arsed behemoths on the same stretch of street along with the nominees of our "keep the scaffolding up" award (need to come up with something a bit catchier Socceroo!) apparently sail through the planning process. Do planners just not have time for detail?

If I'm being unfair plase let me know and I'll apologise. But I really would like to understand why things lik the above happen? :)

When I read Greek, I thought you were bashing Greeks! :lol:

Here's a wee example of what goes on with Glasgow City Council Planning and Building Control, albeit at the domestic level where Extensions, Conservatories etc, are concerned.

Last year i got roped into arranging the building of an extension for a member of my family.

An Architect who i was working with offered to do the Plans etc, but was up to his eyes at the time, so he gave me the phone number of a guy who could not only produce the drawings quickly from the Architects sketches, but also offered two fee options in terms of the Planning / Building Warrant process.

Option one was the set fee for the drawings and the statutory fees from the City Council feescales for Planning and Building Warrant.

Option two was the set fee for the drawings and an enhanced fee to fast track the drawings through Building Control for the warrant post Planning.

You have probably guessed it, he was no Architect but it transpired he worked for Building Control. I do not know if he had any influence on Planning, although we got it through pretty quickly. The Building Warrant was lightning fast.

This same gentleman i later found out was involved in not only producing drawings for a fairly sizeable office development in Lanarkshire, but he actually "designed" it.

So okay none of these sites above are prime sites like that of the former Thomson Offices, but we do not let passengers fly the plane or patients operate on each other, so why accept Planning Submissions from anyone other than a qualified Architect?

Maybe the fucker designed Mizu as well?

was the 'guy' called 'expressplans.com', incidentally?

Alan

You twigged my memory. I wrote about this as part of a letter to the Herald (early January 2005) on the Elgin Place Congregational Church. Here's the pertinent extract:

Finally, now that the building has been demolished can the council assure us that its ‘A’ listed status will set a benchmark for what is to follow? All to often in Glasgow the replacement of buildings of high architectural calibre has resulted in inferior, and mediocre, structures that dilute the quality of our townscape. To reinforce this it is worrying to read in the Royal Fine Arts Commission Future Scotland’s report on the proposed replacement building for Greek Thomson’s ‘A’ listed office block on West Regent Street (demolished this summer) that it doesn’t even involve an architect! This hardly bodes well for design standards in the former City Of Architecture and does anyone else share my sense of déjà vu? There is a wealth of architectural talent in our city; surely this is an ideal opportunity for this talent to be allowed to express itself?

No one took this up then though I had thought it might pique a journalists interest.

try again, maybe the Scotsman. it's a good story.

Using an old thread for a related subject.

Evening Times (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.1655379.0.1_85m_bid_to_revamp_alist_greek_church.php)

£1.85m bid to revamp A-list ‘Greek’ church

A historic Glasgow church built by Alexander Greek' Thomson is set for a £1.85million restoration.

The repairs will help secure the long-term future of St Vincent Street Church which previously featured on a register of at-risk buildings.

Much loved by Glaswegians, the A-listed church is known for its giant tower which dominates the city skyline.

Historic Scotland yesterday announced a £350,000 grant to go towards a full restoration of the 1857-built church by owners Glasgow City Council.

aland........gweilo.........socceroo.....space invader!!!

some blast from the past!

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=95689

do you think they could dae something wae Greeks tenements at cessnock underground on the PRW and get rid the manky wee shops that sit in front of them, did the pitt street church no have scaffolding up on it circa late 90,s, so whats getting restored this time.

and get rid of the heroin dealers that live in those tenements too.

Scooz me? PITT ST CHURCH? Que??? ...phillistine... :lol:

The St Vincent St church had restoration to its external fabric and specifically it's tower. This moneys for internal restoration and I presume (and hope) the installation of a fire protection system!

As for the wee manky shops at Walmer Cresc, they are also by Thomson, they just need cleaned up.

UH OH Ive been chastized by crusty bint I feel faint! anyhoo I'm fae pollok no phillistine! sorry never knew those shops were by Greek Thomson they need a major face lift then....

:lol:

well the shops were designed by Thomson but since they removed the fancy roof montages, they are just plain boring wee shops that block out decent views of those lovely Walmer Crescent tenements.... they actually look more townhouse than tenement...

Good idea about the roofs Schemie, they certainly would bring back the authenticity of the whole row of shops but then again that wouldnt do it on its own, the whole row of shopfronts would need to be redone to the original spec for it to have any viability and originality.

I know the owner of several of those shops in that vicinity and he tells me that before the 1990 year of culture council were considering buying out the whole row of shops and bringing the whole scheme including the tenements back to its original spec.

It so happens that thomsons work was not considerd important enough for them to finance the project... i guess Mackintosh won out on that round at time.

Past and present of Thomsons work @ Walmer Crescent & Terrace.

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5627/walmermoneg3.jpg

How depressing (as usual). Those shops were gorgeous.. I'll just add that to my list of things that depress me about this city.
It's a pretty awful state of affairs that I love this place so much, but so much of it makes me either sad or rage-filled. :bash:

Dinae be sad Milton! even with all its faults its still a great city could be worse at least its no edinburgh (pause wait for abuse fae east coasters):poke:

GA (http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/st_vincent_street_church.htm)

St Vincent Street Church By AGT. :)

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/st_vincent_street_church_31.jpg

I love the ST VINCENT STREET CHURH (just in case i get mauled by a crusty bint!) but I love the caledonia st church more, its a crying shame its just standing there rotting away dont know if it should be restored or redevloped either one would be better than its current fate, and dont even mention his queens park church bloody germans!

so much good stuff is going to waste. some of the stuff knocked down in the past decade could probably have been salvaged as well! will they ever do anything with Caldenia Street church? i know its listing has caused problems in the past and is the main reason for its dereliction but surely contractors could work around this?

and konigwolf, altho u had a pop at 'the other lot' on the Firth of the Forth, they do take a hell of a lot more care to preserve their old architectural gems. One of the campus's at my university (Napier) has built in an 19th century building designed by Craiglockhart ("Edinburgh's answer to...") into one of the most modern FE campus's in Scotland. over here they'd probably just call in the bulldozers and start from scratch.
http://www.leisure-studies-association.info/LSAWEB/2005/images/Napieroutside.jpg

Dinae be sad Milton! even with all its faults its still a great city could be worse at least its no edinburgh (pause wait for abuse fae east coasters):poke:

:lol:
Good point.

Don't get me wrong, I still love this place, but was just having a flick through that Lost Glagow book the other day.. :bash: :bash:

One of the campus's at my university (Napier) has built in an 19th century building designed by Craiglockhart ("Edinburgh's answer to...") into one of the most modern FE campus's in Scotland. over here they'd probably just call in the bulldozers and start from scratch.
http://www.leisure-studies-association.info/LSAWEB/2005/images/Napieroutside.jpg

No, instead they just shoved a highly inappropriate set of buildings in front a building where the war poets, including as Sassoon and Owen, convalesced. The old building is still there, but is completely overwhelmed by the new lecture theatre and teaching wing.

:lol:
Good point.

Don't get me wrong, I still love this place, but was just having a flick through that Lost Glagow book the other day.. :bash: :bash:

I feel your pain milton, I always get upset when I visit the mitchell library site! Glaagow council( or I as I call them "the church killers" and I'm no relgious in any way) just seem obsessed way progress, I know they probably had good reasons not to save historic buildings (money) but in the past they've thrown bath water out without checking if the waen is still in it. ie the pitt street church that was demolished I know it was probably beyond repair but did they even try!

;6711564']When I read Greek, I thought you were bashing Greeks! :lol:

That thread is for another day. :banana:

It's not the Greeks he's after... it' the Chinese.

Fecking Greeks. Coming over here, stealing our jobs, taking our women. They invented gayness.

haha I thought the people of Sodom invented it tho?

Naw, they just wanted to rape Angels.

It's a Father Ted quote by the way, for those not as obsessive as me.

down with this sort of thing!



...careful now...

:lol:

go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on!

Walmer Crescent (http://walmercrescent.org/index.html) has its own site. :)


http://walmercrescent.org/images/web%20cover%20copy.jpg

aland on your original point I hadn't looked at the replacement scheme until your posting. I now have to agree with everything you say. I'm no architect and I share your sense of 'if we are trying to punt Glasgow as really something, how can our planners let this kind of rubbish come about?'.

But therE again, the total lack of quality of the replacement scheme is in keeping with all the other dubious goings-on about the original Greek Thompson building on this site... as with other Greek Thompson now-gone buildings. My understanding is that after a considerable period of void and near-deriliction, this building was acquired by a new owner. Gosh, then the new owner must have been awfully sad when a relatively short time later the building was declared to be 'unsafe'. I further understand that the demolition and clearance of the site (no significant reclamation of any artifacts even ?) was executed at breakneck speed.

Given the location and the historical 'legacy' of the site you would have thought that the city fathers having failed in their original trusteeship role would have at least demanded a high quality replacement - I'm not arguing here for 'relicated heritage'; the replacement could have as easily represented the current vernacular (maybe even by an equivelant Greek Thompson of today?)

At the last time I could go through the painful excercise, I counted at least two Greek Thompson masterpieces, and then of course the Dunlop Church, where there has been the incredible (using that word carefully) coincidence, time and again, of a mysterious fire or other event 'causing' the building to be unsafe and 'requiring' immediate demolition. If I'm correct, on each occassion this 'event' happened each time on the eve of a local public holiday period - very useful if you were a vested interest not wanting too much public reaction whilst you got under way with demolition and clearance ASAP. This also had the effect (as pointed out by others here and/or HG) of meaning that the issue of demolition was handled by the Council's Building Control (?) Committee - thereby discounting the need to go to a relevant planning committee which would have also triggered the Council's rightly onorous statutory responsibilities on protecting the built heritage.

As I say, all quite incredible coincidences.

I'm delighted that Walmer Crescent and the sterling efforts of the local group are getting reconised here. But again, it all raises the question of what is our Council doing about it's supposed role as trustee of the city's heritage? At the very most basic level, look at some of the vandalism being wrought of the building by some ignoramos individual residents (fire alarms, blue painted blockwork... it get's even worse if you walk around the building). One can only surmise 'it wouldn't be allowed to happen in Edinburgh'.

On a further, slightly tangental, note. It's ironic that literally around the corner from Walmer Street, an untold fortune will have been spent a few short years ago on housing the Scottish Centre for Regeneration in plush modern offices in the Festival Park Business Centre (not including the incredibly generous 'relocation' packages that given to many of the staff to make up for the poor souls having to move from Edinburgh offices)... then for all of that to be written off, now that the Centre has been 'relocated' again to new offices in Waterloo Street. I know that that was all not the Council's responsibility, but just imagine the good that all that 'regeneration' budget expenditure could have done if it were invested in the likes of Walmer Crescent rather that prestige offices and relocation packages for transient public sector professionals living off these tax payers' funds.

is this the replacement scheme (for Thomsons offices) you mean escotty?

http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/Commercial/Cornerstonea.jpg

OMG crusty that captures the spirit of the dimensions of the ‘thing’ on the hill. In standing gawping at it at street level, I was hoping that it was the bare steel framing that made it look so awful – maybe once it had clothes on it would be better?

But your image tells the truth. BYTW, aren’t those awfully big people stoatin’ about at street level in the image?… maybe still trying to soften the impact of the real scale of the ‘thing’?

Greek Thomson's legacy is having a run of luck for a change. The scaffolding for the final and main phase of the St Vincent Street Church refurbishment has been going up over the last week and a half and now this about the Egyptian Halls in today's Herald:

Egyptian Halls gain lease of life as owner dispute settled

One of Scotland's most historically significant buildings will be given a new lease of life after two decades of ownership disputes were resolved.

The semi-derelict Egyptian Halls, designed by Alexander "Greek" Thomson in the mid-1800s and dominating Glasgow's Union Street, will undergo a £5m clean-up and refurbishment before being marketed as a retail or office development.

One suggestion is it could return to its original use as a commercial outlet and be turned into an upmarket shopping centre, along the lines of the Princes Square mall on nearby Buchanan Street.

Various attempts to bring the halls, regarded as Thomson's commercial masterpiece and architecture of world-class significance, back into use have been hampered by what the owners describe as "18 years of intense, fractious and complicated wrangling".

Even plans to restore the building when Glasgow was City of Architecture and Design in 1999 failed because of ownership disputes. It currently lies vacant and covered in grime above shops.

A report from 2003 found the A-listed structure required a new roof and guttering; its cupola reinstated and extensive masonry repairs, while dry rot needed treatment and the windows and doors overhauled before the plasterwork could be reinstated.

The building's long-overdue return will begin when the project goes to tender in November, with developers moving on-site next May or June. The provisional completion date is December 2010 but this will depend largely on the outcome of discussions with Glasgow City Council and Historic Scotland as well as the planning process.

The deal to conclude ownership was sealed last week, with Dundee-based Union Street Properties buying the remaining 50% of the upper floors. Director Derek Souter said: "We have invested approaching £4m over the last decade to achieve 100% ownership despite numerous and complex obstacles.

"This will begin the process of re-energising Union Street, which is still one of Glasgow's busiest thoroughfares, whilst acting as a catalyst for more investment in the area - an objective which many stakeholders, including the council, have recently stated they would like to see achieved."

He added the final investment figure, thought to be around £5m, and the eventual purpose of the halls would be determined by trading conditions when it is marketed.

A Glasgow City Council spokeswoman said: "We look forward to working with the new owners to bring forward the scheme of repairs which will return this very important building to its original condition."

12:14am today

By GERRY BRAIDEN

Yes good news you bring us there Gweilo and I think it should be said that by all accounts Derek Souter of Dunlop Street Properties has long persevered with the Egyptian Halls and he does seem to be doing so with a sympathetic and appropriate development in mind.

26 page PDF on walmer crescent (http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D19F680A-05AF-4269-B5F6-5CFF1A71C64D/0/walmercrescent28706.pdf) Conservation Area Appraisal.

From today's Herald:

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2503038.0.greek_thomson_centre_is_proposed.php

Greek Thomson centre is proposed

He is often regarded as Glasgow's "other great architect", never quite awarded the international status of Charles Rennie Mackintosh, but now a centre celebrating Alexander "Greek" Thomson in Glasgow has been proposed.

A planning application has been submitted to Glasgow Council to convert the Caledonia Road Church, located in Glasgow's Gorbals, into a study centre, cafe and art gallery exhibiting the work of the Stirlingshire-born designer.

The A-listed building, owned by Glasgow City Council, has lain empty since 1962 and sustained considerable damage in the late 1960s when vandals started a fire that destroyed the roof, leaving the structure an empty shell.

The Alexander Thomson Society, established in 1991 to promote the life and work of Thomson, is behind the application.

Sally White, the secretary of the society, said: "There are many Thomson buildings in the city but a lot of them are in private ownership and can't be opened to the public, and there is nowhere to go to research his work. However, there are some brilliant places to research people like Mackintosh," she added.

Thomson belonged to a generation of designers across Europe who rejected classicism in favour of an informal, romantic and eclectic style which referenced ancient Greece - earning him the nickname "Greek".

He also designed historic churches in Queen's Park, and on St Vincent Street before his death in 1875, aged 57.

12:02am today

Particularly like the bit about Thomson rejecting classicism. That's worthy of a mention in Private Eye.

Other than that good news. After years of abortive schemes something might get done with the Caledonia Road Church.

Saw that in the weekly planning advert last month, meant to ask on here if anyone knew anything about it:

09/00764/DC
09/00765/DC
1 Caledonia Road G5
Mixed use development comprising (a) partial restoration of derelict church and use
as gallery space, study centre, café/bar (premises licence), ancillary office space with
internal courtyard, (b) erection of extension to north façade comprising gallery,
meeting rooms, studios, ancillary spaces and 10 serviced flats and (c) associated
access works, parking and landscaping with internal and external fabric repairs to
listed building

Saw that in the weekly planning advert last month, meant to ask on here if anyone knew anything about it:

09/00764/DC
09/00765/DC
1 Caledonia Road G5
Mixed use development comprising (a) partial restoration of derelict church and use
as gallery space, study centre, café/bar (premises licence), ancillary office space with
internal courtyard, (b) erection of extension to north façade comprising gallery,
meeting rooms, studios, ancillary spaces and 10 serviced flats and (c) associated
access works, parking and landscaping with internal and external fabric repairs to
listed building

This project has been given the go Ahead Gholami Baines (http://www.gholamibaines.com/) are the architects.

http://www.scotcities.com/caledonia_birdseye.jpg

MEGA

Hope this goes ahead.

Im a huge fan of Thomson

saw something about it here

http://www.greekthomson.org.uk/newhome.htm

Architecture Scotland (http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/features/260/Greek_Revival%3F.html)



http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_161.jpg

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_162.jpg

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_163.jpg

Architecture Scotland (http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/features/260/Greek_Revival%3F.html)



http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_161.jpg

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_162.jpg

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_163.jpg

If this is the best they can do with the church i would rather they left it as is.YUK!!

Surely sandstone would be more appropriate? Or even glass?

Sandstone I agree with your reasoning but glass!? why would that be more appropriate.
I think the concrete idea is fine but the current massing and elevation is terrible.

Glass is a last resort, sometimes it can work well with older buildings.

It's polished granite not concrete.

I rather like the proposal. Here's the setting the church once had and the cue for the massing

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382155/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382158/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382137/

Okay, option 3.
Not Glass, not f-ing concrete. Built a half-decent streetscape behind it like there used to be. I realise such notions aren't fashionable anymore, but hey-ho.

wow

it has to be said - it looked pretty amazing back in the day.

Not sure about the white paint on the egyptian halls, or the blatant copy of the old post office on george square, curved glass roof.

Extension to church is an insult to greek thomson.

i agree, that some sort of street scape should be made around it as it currently just stands there alone, and will do when (if) this extension is built.

The Egyptian Halls are to be cleaned not painted. I like the glass roof, its much better than the usual extensions put on buildings.

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/images/features/featurespic_162.jpg

on its own i could like it. with the church its just not happenin. this from the thomson society as well. shame.

I've been putting off saying anything, because I couldn't decide if I liked it or not, and maybe that's exactly why, Crusty; cause it's interesting enough by itself, but doesn't rise to the (impossibly difficult) task of dealing with the church brilliantly.

That said, polished granite? What is this, a bank? I liked it better when I thought the image showed white concrete, which might at least age in an interesting way.

i can sort of understand the granite, looks like theyre going for 'best quality' (in the joy luck club sense) and, in teh spiel, trying to invoke that sense of almost monolithic, hewn from the living rock, monumentality Thomson so often achieves. i just think the product jars uneasily with the church, handsome though it is in its own right.

its a real pity Thomsons treatment of the adjoining tenement in Belles first image couldn't be achieved (road has been realigned) as i think thats the best way to do the church justice. not meaning a tenement form or facade recreation, just the feel to the facade.

slight tangent, but does anyone know if the adjoining section of viaduct could ever serve a useful purpose again? looking at the aerial views, and bearing in mind where the M74 is being built, it doesn;t seem that it could ever be reconnected. could its removal and the re-parcelling of the Thomson site to include more of the wedge make it easier to deal with?

Doesn't that section of line form part of the mythical Crossrail?

I just dislike polished granite. It seems so, I dunno, 80s. And given that it would inevitably be thin cladding, I'm not sure how monolithic-living rock it could be. Concrete at least can achieve a sort of timeless ancient-monument quality, ie, most famously in Kahn's work:

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/groc0029/architecture/KAHN.jpg

http://www.carusostjohn.com/artscouncil/artwork/paradigms_library_kahn.jpg

http://www.nexusjournal.com/2008/Images/Salk_Institute.jpg

Re: the Greek Thomson Interpretation Centre in the Caledonia Road Church, having seen the drawings it is a very interesting scheme and clearly a labour of love with a lot of thought and attention to detail. But…. firstly the whole idea of having to approach a Greek Thomson masterpiece and not be able to enter it as intended but rather through a modern extension at the rear is odd though that's no fault of the architects. Rather it is precluded by the road geometry that leaves the church isolated on a traffic island. This clearly needs to be addressed. And that is an issue for the council (who are backing this) to resolve. The whole issue needs thought about in a wider context in order to get this working.

Secondly the consequence of this is as a previously noted you have to enter the building through the extension to the rear and the design of that north façade is questionable. Ok there is a rich axial sequence and the whole courtyard within the body of the church and massing of the residential component to the rear seem absolutely the right move to make and the courtyard elevations are fine. Furthermore the idea of the solidity of the rear elevation as this notion of a hard outer shell of an Aaltoesque harbour sheltering the softer more delicate courtyard within is potentially a nice touch. However it is the language of that north elevation which strikes the wrong note. It is extremely powerful. Almost forbidding. And yet curiously flat when you consider how superbly modelled Greek Thomson's facades are. And look at those random windows! Hardly a nod to the 'mysterious power of the horizontal' or the often staccato rhythms Thomson employed. It's almost as if when designing the elevation Gholami Baines, in attempting to tune into the spirit of Greek Thomson, have inadvertently turned the dial about a hundred and forty years too far and unfortunately wound up channelling the spirit of Henri Ciriani instead. Interesting enough on its own, maybe, but on that location? I'm really not sure....

The Egyptian Halls are to be cleaned not painted. I like the glass roof, its much better than the usual extensions put on buildings.

I like the glass roof too, and it certainly beats the "invisible" glass box more often than not stuck on the top with these extensions, but I think there was missed opportunity for a different roof form, possibly taking inspiration from the Central Station roof across the road, rather than a GPO copy.

if the egyptian hall are just to be cleaned (which i am also against as its proven that it can cause more damage) then why is it shown white?

Not trying to cause any arguments but the architects impression does look white?

I have to agree with macco. Polished granite does look very banky, very sherriff court, very 80's.

It would be a very difficult job to do though - an extention to a thomson building.

By the looks of it, the main church doesnt have a roof???

i do like the square trees though!

I agree that the image looks like it's painted white, but I can't imagine Historic Scotland allowing that to happen—isn't (and I'm asking) paint really bad for stone?

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/features/260/Greek_Revival%3F.html

George Morrisson of the Morrison Partnership said: "The current outward appearance is so dirty and forlorn that I guess the building does not register with most of the passing public." Behind a thirty years in the making coat of soot, grime and guano however resides one of the most striking facades in Glasgow, with potential to make a real and lasting contribution to Union Street.


Its pretty clear that they are going to clean it.

I agree that the image looks like it's painted white, but I can't imagine Historic Scotland allowing that to happen—isn't (and I'm asking) paint really bad for stone?

If the paint isn't porous it can be damaging. Historic Scotand's guidelines are

PROPOSALS TO PAINT FACADES NOT PREVIOUSLY PAINTED
Painting the facade can bring about a radical change in the character of the building and therefore requires listed building consent. Paint is seldom an acceptable alternative to proper repair, cleaning or the removal of unsightly stains and should usually only be considered where existing plastic repairs cover more than half the original masonry surface. In such instances very careful preparation will be required in order for the paint to adhere.

So painting in this instance would seem to be out of the question. A light clean's probably more appropriate as the detailing is particularly delicate.

http://www.architecturescotland.co.u...evival%3F.html

dramatically a contemporary roofscape intervention, in a similar vein to Cooper Cromar's g1, is also planned, though Morrison is wary of heritage body reaction: "an inordinate amount of time and energy goes into trying to promote such ideas and I feel that as a principle there should be less of a presumption against it. That said, such challenges are not new. Even Greek Thomson spoke out against such resistance to new ideas. Given Greek Thomson's progressive thinking I wonder if he would be more inclined to encourage the evolution/change of his buildings to meet today's demands or would resist all such thoughts."

Had a good laugh at that one. The simplistic cut and paste from the G1 scheme looks clumsy (and I wonder what Cooper Cromar think about copyright?). I would have thought this building, being Thomson's commercial masterpiece and the one that best encapsulates 'the mysterious power of the horizontal' quality Thomson aimed for, deserves a bit more sensitivity. I'm well aware of all the difficulties associated with rehabilitating this building but why can we, as a nation, not just restore it as the masterpiece it is, and leave it at that? Did the 1907 extension to the Grosvenor Building on Gordon Street by J.H. Craigie do it any favours aesthetically?

People are greedy, they want to maximise the buildings available floor space.

I think that the G1 scheme is quite a popular thing in Paris, can't be sure though.

Did the 1907 extension to the Grosvenor Building on Gordon Street by J.H. Craigie do it any favours aesthetically?

Ugh, it's terrible, isn't it?

Yep you either love that juxtaposition or hate it. Sturm und Drang. An inappropriate pairing of styles if ever there was one that simply doesn't gel. That said in my kinder moments I think Craigie's bit has a kind of vulgar Ompa-Lumpa style about it that one could become fond of if it wasn't literally shitting all over Greek Thomson. It's sort of a Liberace meets Beethoven architectural moment.

What is it with this country and its obsession with glass rooftop extensions? Why are these buildings all suddenly non-viable without this extra floorspace, and why do artist's impressions and developer's blurbs try to convince us that they are near invisible?

/rant

Re: the stone cleaning - is there not a certain school of thought that cleaning can be more harmful to the stone than leaving it be, because the newly revealed surface is more vulnerable to the elements?

I'm presuming they'll be looking at methods like the applied rubbery material which peels off and takes the dirt with it (as used in the Kelvingrove refurb) rather than crudely sandblasting? Before the scaffolding went up, you could see loads of wee patches where they'd trialled various methods over the last few years.

sorry Macc, should have been clearer in that I agree with you regarding the granite. the thing with concrete though is that iv rarely seen in achieve that monolithic quality due to the segemented nature of the construction, whether its the marks left from shuttering and multiple pours or from stacking pre-cast segments. how large can you cast concrete in situ, and in a single pour? anyone know?

Gweilo, have to agree with you (as per), and in particular about the traffic island issue, which is, I suppose, why i was wondering about that viaduct.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3595948318_6d1cf9cb90_o.jpg

also, despite it being quite a radical intervention, I don't really have an issue with the rooftop extension to the Egyptian Halls, indeed a look through the virtual mitchell shows it wasnt so uncommon for the victorians to add such structures to the tops of buildings. always thought the gordon st extension is akin to giving sofia loren lola ferrari's tits.

regarding the stone cleaning, it all really depends on the method, though no method is without its drawbacks. as i understand it, when stone is cut or chiseled, the top few microns fuse, binding the particulates that compose the stone and allowing for deflection of most water it comes into contact with. the older methods of cleaning such as sand blasting obviously strip this away and promote any inherent friability within the stone, the chemical latex method (as described by Gap) isn't nearly as invasive but can still leave residue of the cleaning agent. the choice of agent will be particularly important as the exhausts from the bus canyon of union st will have to be factored into the equation soas to ensure there no unforseen chemical reaction that could eat away at the relatively soft sandstone.

Egyptian Halls, some years ago
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=12170&r=2&t=4&x=1

I'm not sure what the maximum pour possible is, but a standard pour is half a floor height. The best architectural concrete tends to take advantage of the quality (ie, look at the Kahn images on the previous page). Of course, that kind of quality is well beyond what's achieved by the average architect and contractor.

i know, the kahn stuff is mighty impressive, but i think would look all the better from not having the shuttering and join marks. pedantic little issue i suppose, but id love to see concrete used as an extrusion giving it an organic quality. totally digressing now though, sorry folks :)

The simplistic cut and paste from the G1 scheme looks clumsy (and I wonder what Cooper Cromar think about copyright?).
they cant complain - coopers are simply building the BDP scheme that won the job in the first place....
heard the G1 developer had gone into administration....can anybody confirm this?

Wonder what will happen to them now then?


Reference: 09/01252/DC Community Cnl: Anderston (Inactive)
Address: 107 West Regent Street Glasgow
Proposal: Erection of office development - amendment to conditions 12 and 19 of consent
06/03871/DC to remove requirement to re-use original Thomson portico and railings on
site.
Date Received: 01.06.2009 Date Valid: 10.06.2009
Applicant
Details:
Kenmore Land Ashford Property WRS LLP
Agent Details: 0141 331 2926
Gordon Murray And Alan Dunlop Architects
Breckenridge House 274 Sauchiehall Street GLASGOW
Ward: Anderston/City
Type: Full Planning Permission
Case Officer: Mr M Thomson, 0141 287 6031
Listing: Cons Area: Central Area
Map Reference: (E) 258713 (N) 665647

that really is pathetic.

AJ (http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/cornerstone-glasgow-by-gordon-murray-alan-dunlop-architects/5206688.article)

Cornerstone, Glasgow by Gordon Murray + Alan Dunlop Architects

http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/pictures/182xAny/1/2/4/1209124_031_AJW_130809_image.jpg

Glasgow’s Cornerstone is a speculative office development by Glasgow-based practice Gordon Murray + Alan Dunlop Architects (gm+ad), positioned on the corner of West Regent Street and Wellington Street, where the city grid starts to fall towards the River Clyde. Cornerstone’s site was previously occupied by a Grade A-listed building dating from 1830, which was significantly extended by Scottish architect Alexander ‘Greek’ Thomson in 1872. After lying empty for over a decade, the building was demolished in 2004. However, the city stipulated that Thomson’s door cases and railings were to be retained. gm+ad has produced a number of commercial buildings in this section of the city grid and was asked by Kenmore Property Group (in a joint venture with Ashford Property Group) to consider the viability of developing the Thomson site.

Item 2 (http://www.glasgowcitycouncil.co.uk/committee_minutes/public/extdocviewtop.asp?CID=2493&DATE=01/09/2009&TIME=11:00&DAY=Tuesday&PAGE=1) (24 pages)

1 September 2009

APPLICATION 09/00764/DC

DATE VALID 27.03.2009

SITE ADDRESS
1 Caledonia Road Glasgow G5 9DP

PROPOSAL
Mixed use development comprising (a) conservation of derelict church and use as
gallery space, study centre, café/bar (premises licence), ancillary office space with
internal courtyard, (b) erection of extension to north facade comprising gallery, meeting
rooms, studios, ancillary spaces and ten serviced flats and (c) associated access works,
parking and landscaping.

APPLICANT
The Alexander Thomson Society
Per Sally White
7 Walmer Crescent
Glasgow
G51 1AT

AGENT
Gholami Baines Ltd
5 Commercial Street
EDINBURGH
EH6 6JA

WARD NO(S)
08, Southside Central COMMUNITY
COUNCIL
02_099, Hutchesontown
CONSERVATION AREA

LISTED A

ADVERT TYPE
Bad Neighbour Development

PUBLISHED 10 April 2009

CITY PLAN Residential

As the licensed café/bar element of the proposal is categorised as a ‘Bad Neighbour Development’, the
application was advertised in the Evening Times on 10 April 2009.

SITE AND DESCRIPTION

Location of Development
The application site is perhaps best known as the former Caledonia Road Church, designed by Alexander
“Greek” Thomson, now bounded by Cathcart Road (formerly Cathcart Street) to the west, Laurieston Road
(formerly Hospital Street prior to realignment) to the east and Cumberland Street to the north. Its net
developable area amounts to 2305m² and excludes areas of public footway.
The site also incorporates an area of vacant ground to the north of the former church, which abuts the now
disused railway viaduct to the west. A public footpath and underpass separate the site from the Brazen Head
public house service yard and car park to the north, although taken together, they effectively form a small,
standalone urban block.
Site History and Characteristics
Caledonia Road Church was constructed in 1856 and was designed by Thomson in conjunction with a pair of
contiguous tenements which, in their historic perspective, addressed Hospital Street and Cathcart Street.
Following this, the adjacent railway line and bridge over Cathcart Street was constructed in 1865, which
necessitated demolition of part of the north-west corner of urban block of which the church forms part and
represented the first part of intervention on the setting of the church. The Thomson designed tenements were
untouched by this intervention.
Arising from the period of comprehensive tenement demolitions in the 1950’s and 60’s, the church congregation
was severely depleted through relocation of its congregation, following which it was vacated and deconsecrated
by 1962. The building was then subject to extensive vandalism, culminating in an arson attack in 1965 which
was largely responsible for loss of a significant extent of the building fabric.
Subsequent works to stabilise the building have included replacement lintels and beams, insertion of a concrete
slab to the tower and infilling of ground floor openings, re-construction of the roof over the portico in timber with
metal sheeting, and extensive repairs to the external façade, predominantly with cement mortar.
By 1972, both of the adjoining tenements had deteriorated to the point where they represented dangerous
buildings, resulting in their demolition and a new masonry wall was then constructed on the north end of the
church.
The Proposed Development
Arising from the abandonment of the premises, the site is currently considered to have a nil use. Full planning
permission is now sought for a mixed use development to secure the future of the original premises with uses
comprising a gallery space, study area, a licensed café/bar, ancillary office space and an internal courtyard, all
at ground floor level. As part of its redevelopment, extensive stonework repairs are also indicated. An
extension to the north comprising a gallery, meeting rooms, studios, ancillary spaces and ten serviced flats is
also proposed. Associated works to service the overall proposals comprise a new vehicular access from
Cathcart Road, parking for 15 vehicles and hard and soft landscaping.
Arising from the “A” Listed status of the building, an accompanying application for listed building consent has
been submitted for associated “conservation of derelict church with associated internal and external fabric
repairs and minor alterations to listed building and erection of extension to north façade”.

Re-use of the former church can be broken down into the following principal areas:-

Meeting Hall

The former meeting hall parallel to Cathcart Road will be a double height space and is intended to operate as
the main Thomson gallery. It will include an ancillary retail element, over which a study and archive mezzanine
space will be created, and will also be directly accessible from the new extension. A new green flat roof will be
constructed at a level of 5.9 metres above finished floor level, 670mm below the surviving wall head level, and
will include a lantern directly over the mezzanine for natural lighting purposes. New timber framed glazing,
incorporating a salvaged Thomson sandstone doorway, will separate the gallery space from the courtyard.

Courtyard

The courtyard represents the main body or nave of the former church and is intended to be used for outside
performances, functions and displays. Paving will be in sandstone. A new single storey office will be
constructed between this space and the main element of the extension.
Vestibule and Tower
A new concrete slab with rooflight shall be installed between the original vestibule area and the colonnaded
area at first floor and the area underneath shall be used as gallery space. Floorspace at ground level within the
tower shall be used to as a gallery specifically for the former church.

Cafe

A café/bar is to be located between the vestibule and the courtyard in what was previously a seating area
underneath the gallery. New timber framed glazing will separate this space from the courtyard and a new flat
roof will be installed, incorporating a recessed clerestory and a raised, central rooflight.

Extension

The proposed five storey extension to the north comprises studios, WC facilities and main entrance at ground
floor; a double height gallery, meeting rooms and kitchen at first floor; two serviced apartments at second floor
and; four serviced apartments at both third and fourth floors (ten in total). The extension will also accommodate
a green roof and solar thermal collectors. Proposed external finishes to the extension comprise a honed granite
plinth with polished granite to the remainder of the façade, stated to be silver grey in colour.
The premises as a whole will be retained under the ownership of the Alexander Thomson Society, who will also
actively manage letting contracts of the serviced apartments and associated maintenance. The applicant refers
to these apartments being rented by visitors for occupation on a long and short term basis, although maximum
duration is not quantified. The proposals are clearly not mainstream residential units and, therefore, are not
subject to RES 3 Residential Greenspace Standards. Any subsequent application for alternative uses such as
mainstream residential flats would require planning permission, at which stage, they would be tested against the
appropriate residential policy requirements adopted at that time, including greenspace requirements.

Car Park and Landscaped Area

It is also proposed to introduce 15 car parking spaces with hard and soft landscaping on the northern portion of
the site to serve the consolidated premises with a new vehicular access point from Cathcart Road, between the
proposed extension and the railway bridge. Contrasting modules of granite sets will be used to distinguish
access and parking spaces from pedestrian areas. Specific details regarding planting proposals, including
schedules and maintenance, can be reserved by condition.
The proposals are intended to function as the home of the Alexander Thomson Society, where Thomson
artefacts can be exhibited in the associated gallery spaces, both within the former meeting hall parallel to
Cathcart Road, the vestibule area of the original building and first floor level in the proposed extension, the
former of which will include an ancillary retail element. Proposed hours of operation for the public parts will be
9:00am and 5:00pm, seven days a week. These operating hours differ from proposed functions and events,
which are anticipated to operate until 12:00am.

...incorporating a salvaged Thomson sandstone doorway...

Ah, is this the mysterious missing doorway from West Regent Street, which was subject to a recent planning application to delete the condition stipulating re-use on that site?

Ah, is this the mysterious missing doorway from West Regent Street, which was subject to a recent planning application to delete the condition stipulating re-use on that site?

A slight visual of railings and portico of it on this image, were the 2 items prserved or done away with all together ?

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/949/agt.png

Ah, is this the mysterious missing doorway from West Regent Street

No I don't think it is Gap74.

I think the one to be re-erected at Caledonia Road is the stone doorway from Thomson's Bell Street block that was salvaged after demolition. I've seen the drawings for the Greek Thomson society's Caledonia Road Church proposal and the doorway there is crowned with an acroterion.

[QUOTE=belle;37738950]I rather like the proposal. Here's the setting the church once had and the cue for the massing

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382155/

WOW! that is stunning!

http://www.gholamibaines.com/

1 Caledonia Rd

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3685/crdagt.jpg

GIA (http://www.gia.org.uk/GUDP/GlasgowUrbanDesignPanel04June%200906043.doc)

PROPOSAL: MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT
AGENT: GHOLAMI BAINES LTD ARCHITECTS
SITE: 1 CALEDONIA ROAD

This application relates to the former Caledonia Road Church, designed by Alexander Thomson which is a category ‘A’ listed building situated on Cathcart Road, Laurieston Street and Caledonia Road. The proposals are for a mixed use development comprising of the Alexander Thomson Gallery & Museum, café/bar and 10 serviced apartments with each having a broad conservatory to front. The inner courtyard will be developed to create a Greek botanical effect with trees along the edge of the public space. There will also be parking facilities for 16 cars, including 2 disabled bays. The museum will have a roof terrace which can be used for private and public funds, accommodating up to 90 people. Apartment building will be of polished granite material with glass structural screens surrounding the inner courtyard. The site will have a single point of entry which will be situated on the north side and the existing 3m high doorways will be retained, but for effect only.

Issues raised: - use of granite material for new build, possibly consider the use of a warmer tone of granite; flat roof on residential block; view from north gives building no sense of depth and run-off detail, client must consider climate in Glasgow.

A lot of discussion was on the materials and how if they were to be changed, the Project may loose its dominance. The entrance access was also highlighted as some Panel members felt that with the assistance of Glasgow City Council, entry could be retained at the original point. The Project must engage with the surrounding area and some Panel members felt that this may not be achieved based on the proposal.

Nice wee article on the beeb about Talwin Morris embossed copper plaques rescued from Greek Thomson's Blackie and Sons HQ prior to its demolition:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8294450.stm

At least someone realised their value before the wreckers ball got 'em. Makes you wonder what else was stupidly skipped at the time...

A storm of opprobrium from Architecture Scotland readers, stirred by publication of Egyptian Halls marketing images depicting a three level glazed rooftop extension, has prompted Union Street Properties to return with less intrusive indicative only visuals showing the landmark warehouse shorn of any modern interventions.


...continues at Architecture Scotland (http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/news/1836/Souter_looks_to_kick_start_stalled_Egyptian_Halls_.html)

What is this anyway? Offices or apartments? I can't say I'd like to live on Union Street.

ET (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks-ignore/deal-close-for-a-listed-landmark-1.1004976)


Published on 9 Feb 2010

Deal close for A-listed landmark

The owner of Alexander “Greek” Thomson’s Egyptian Halls is in talks with four interested parties who could secure the future of the A-listed landmark in weeks.

The identities of those involved are being kept secret until a preferred developer is confirmed, but the firms involved are believed to be “serious and well-financed”.

The property’s owner Union Street Properties says a winning firm could be appointed in four to six weeks allowing the project to end 30 years of stalemate.

Once a developer is chosen, the historic halls will be transformed into a 136-150-room hotel with restaurant, bar and retail provision.

The firm also wants to create a Mackintosh-Thomson Mews linking Charles Rennie Mackintosh’s Lighthouse building with Thomson’s Egyptian Halls.

Derek Souter, director of Union Street Properties, said: “Everybody wants to see the Egyptian Halls saved and it’s now getting close to that.”

Dundee-based USP has been involved with the halls for 11 years and has invested £5.5million in the building.

But because of legal issues over ownership, the company only took full possession of the 136-year-old property last year and began marketing the halls to potential developers.

Mr Souter added: “All parties know the deadlines and we are benefiting from support from Glasgow City Council, Historic Scotland and our funders Dunfermline Building Society.”

Beeb

A fundraising campaign has been launched to refurbish one of Glasgow's most iconic derelict buildings.

The Alexander "Greek" Thomson Society hopes to raise £500,000 to bring the church on Caledonia Road, in the city's Gorbals area, back into public use.

The A-listed building was abandoned in 1962 and damaged by fire in 1965.

The society wants to conserve its remains and develop galleries and a museum dedicated to the life and work of the Stirlingshire-born architect.

Public contribution

Its long-term plans, which involve buying the building from the council, would also see the addition of a cafe, studio spaces and serviced apartments for short-term letting.

Sally White, secretary of the Alexander Thomson Society, said: "The total cost of the project will be about £4.5m but we hope to raise about £500,000 through public contributions.

"Ideally we would like to start on site sometime in 2011 with completion about 12 to 15 months later.

"But with the economic climate the way it is at the moment we can't be certain."

Alexander "Greek" Thomson was an eminent 19th century Scottish architect and architectural theorist.

He designed all types of buildings, mainly in Glasgow, and was largely inspired by the classic style of Greek architecture.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8531201.stm
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47358000/jpg/_47358799_webslide45-1.jpg

I know contrast can be good, but.........
Certainly not a project high on my priority list, but each to their own I suppose.

The church needs to be rebuilt. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS!

The current proposals are an architect's fantasy...and will add nothing to anyone else's appreciation of Thomson's work. A public appeal by the Greek Thomson Society needs to get started NOW...but to reconstruct his masterpiece.

We'll need a bit more money then! While we're at it we can reconstruct his Queen's Park church, his greatest masterpiece:D

The church needs to be rebuilt. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS!

The current proposals are an architect's fantasy...and will add nothing to anyone else's appreciation of Thomson's work. A public appeal by the Greek Thomson Society needs to get started NOW...but to reconstruct his masterpiece.

Agreed.

The church needs to be rebuilt. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS!

The current proposals are an architect's fantasy...and will add nothing to anyone else's appreciation of Thomson's work. A public appeal by the Greek Thomson Society needs to get started NOW...but to reconstruct his masterpiece.

Who for, the devout folks of the Gorbals? We need to value what we Alexander Thomson remains before we start lavishing cash on recreating what's lost.

Who for, the devout folks of the Gorbals?.



Why,whats so bad about the Devout folks of the Gorbals?, you Eastern Belle you. :)

Try visiting the New Gorbals sometime when yer ooer. :)

And how can anyone replace this lost interior?

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382135/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382153/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382152/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382145/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382144/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/382141/

What fantastic photos...thanks M Riaz.

If cities in Germany and Poland could be rebuilt after WW2, we can surely do the same with this masterpiece.

It should be a priority with GCC. Much as I admire the House for an Artlover, and was delighted to see it built...this is more important. Glasgow should become a specialist in Victorian architecture and its restoration and preservation.

Remember, as John Betjamin observed, we have the greatest Victorian city in the world!

Why,whats so bad about the Devout folks of the Gorbals?, you Eastern Belle you. :)

Try visiting the New Gorbals sometime when yer ooer. :)

And how can anyone replace this lost interior?

I'm not casting aspersions on the petanque players of Hayfield Street just doubting their capacity for creating a congregation to fill the recreated church. But maybe they're holier than I imagine.

Unless Foswell is suggesting the church is rebuilt for another purpose... not just as architectural whimsy for tourists.

Just niosin ye up belle ;), an aye you are right about the purpose of the building, it has to serve a cause if its to be restored to anywhere near it once was and not just a community centre, the building is far too important to serve just a local community meetings, the building should built and brought back to life in bringing a vast array of different bodies to serve creative and art subjects IMO. :)

1. Grant Funding/Planning permission: October-December 2009
2. Confirmed end user: October 2009-March 2010
3. Tender Process: March 2010-October 2010
4. On site: October 2010
5. Completion: June 2012


Couple of movies highlighting possibilites of the Egyptian Halls (http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/3dmovies.html) in Union St.

http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/Images/hdr_movie1.gif http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/Images/hdr_movie2.gif

So, that'll be another Thomson building near Central Station ruined by sticking architecture from a different era on the top...consistent if nothing else...

I really hope they dont get to do this rooftop extension it'd ruin the building looks and orginality for good IMO, are cat A listed buildings allowed to have alterations done to them. ?

I mean look at the panoptican along at Trongate, look at what they done for that beautiful original building, they brought it up as if its just been built, council could do same here and save this treasure without commercial elements of a rooftop conversion.

So, that'll be another Thomson building near Central Station ruined by sticking architecture from a different era on the top...consistent if nothing else...

This proposal doesn't really bother me either way. I think ANY development, however, would work wonders in improving the ghost town that is Union street. While being a copy cat of the GPO and maybe not the most exciting design, at least it isn't as outrageous as the monstrosity proposed for the church in the Gorbals.....

I dont think it will be too visible from street level.

I'm just pleased it is being developed.

Hopefully, the church will spur some activity around that area too (even if the design looks shit. I really think the area around the old gorbals station has huge potential were it to be developed.

This proposal doesn't really bother me either way. I think ANY development, however, would work wonders in improving the ghost town that is Union street. While being a copy cat of the GPO and maybe not the most exciting design, at least it isn't as outrageous as the monstrosity proposed for the church in the Gorbals.....

I was on Union Street today and can't believe how down-market it has become. I think if they are going to pump any money into the area then they need to have an overall strategy for the area - otherwise its pissing money down the drain. I hate to say it but unless they either pedestrianise or remove the bus traffic the beautiful buildings are going to be either neglected or have below par tenants.

This street has the potential to be as good as Buchanan street!!!

Even giving the paving the same treatment as Hope Street at Central Station would be an improvement. It's one of the first streets visitors see and it should be a priority to modernise this street.

I was just having a sly grin to myself the other night when I was waiting on a late evening bus outside The Gooose on Union Street. The thought of all the millions spent over the years trying to change Glasgow's image, and how five minutes in that particular spot is always enough to reduce even the most successful of those campaigns to tatters...

I was just having a sly grin to myself the other night when I was waiting on a late evening bus outside The Gooose on Union Street. The thought of all the millions spent over the years trying to change Glasgow's image, and how five minutes in that particular spot is always enough to reduce even the most successful of those campaigns to tatters...

It's a nightmare - I saw a pregnant woman get punched by her man outside the goose then batter a bystander who asked if she was ok.

She was probably on her 9th Bacardi breezer

"Welcome to Glasgow: Scotland with style." Indeed.

ET (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/18m-to-save-city-centre-gem-1.1033813)

£18m to save city centre gem

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/polopoly_fs/hotel-1.1033816!image/2255181910.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/2255181910.jpg

9 Jun 2010

An £18 million plan will see the transformation of one of Glasgow’s architectural gems into a 136-bedroom hotel.

For 30 years the Egyptian Halls in Union Street have lain mostly empty and partly derelict.

But all that is about to change with plans to convert the A-listed Alexander ‘Greek’ Thomson designed former warehouse into a swish hotel.

Cash will come from the Better Glasgow Fund which was set up two years ago to fund regeneration and the protection of historic buildings. It is hoped the hotel will act as a springboard for the wider regeneration of Union Street.

On Friday, Glasgow councillors will be asked to contribute £1m towards the cost of the scheme from the Better Glasgow Fund.

Union Street Investments own the historic building which is now regarded as being at risk. The firm has agreed that Derbyshire-based Longrose Buccleuch will manage the building with the hotel franchise being taken over by the Accor group. It already operates 850 hotels in nearly 100 countries.

Derek Souter of Union Street Investments said: “This is fantastic news for Glasgow and Union Street and would also be a significant boost for Glasgow’s construction industry.

“As well as creating more than 60 construction and 80 full and part-time jobs when trading, it will preserve Scotland’s architectural heritage.”

The Egyptian Halls are considered by many to be architect Alexander ‘Greek’ Thomson’s finest building.

Over the past 30 years, various plans to refurbish the Halls have been frustrated by the fact it had a large number of individual owners.

The city council eventually stepped in on behalf of majority owner Union Street Properties and began preparing compulsory purchase orders for the rest of the building. As a result all the other owners agreed to sell up and Union Street Properties now owns the entire building.

The company, Historic Scotland and the council looked at options for the Halls including keeping the facade and demolishing everything behind it, adding a rooftop extension, or flattening the building and redeveloping the site.

A report to councillors, says: “Given the status of the building and its importance to the heritage of Glasgow, USP has been advised demolition/redevelopment would not be supported by the council or Historic Scotland.”

The council is anxious to see this Grade A building returned to productive use Steve Inch
But studies show no other options are financially viable. The option which shows the smallest financial loss involves shops at basement and ground floor levels and a hotel on the first to fourth floors with the addition of a rooftop extension.

The part of the hotel in the existing building would be three star with the new extension four star.

The report adds: “Historic Scotland appears to accept compromise is necessary and that without some radical design changes to the building no refurbishment will take place and the deterioration will continue.

“The initial development appraisal suggests the development will cost approximately £18m but will show a loss of £5m based on the estimated returns.

“There is therefore no prospect of proceeding without external funding support.”

Union Street Properties is in the process of raising £17m and has asked the city council to provide the other £1m.

Steve Inch, the council’s executive director of development and regeneration, said: “The council has been anxious to see this important Grade A listed building restored and returned to productive use for many years.

“We hope our proposed financial support will bolster the regeneration of Union Street.”

The council is likely to draw up a legal agreement allowing it to claw back cash if the building costs are not as high as expected or if it is sold on for above its estimated cost.

Garin Davies of Longrose Buccleuch said: “We assess many project opportunities and this is one which is near the top of the list we want to become involved with.”

Neil Baxter, secretary of the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland, said: “This is a building of the first importance, not simply in Glasgow or Scotland but in European terms.”

Saw this on t' BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/glasgowandwestscotland/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8758000/8758301.stm

£2.3m plea for historic city ‘icon’

1 Dec 2010

A historic building in Glasgow city centre may have to be demolished … unless £2.35million can be found to save it.

The 138-year-old A-Listed Egyptian Halls in Union Street, opposite the side entrance to Central Station, were designed by Alexander “Greek” Thomson and are regarded as one of the finest buildings in Glasgow.

The building has lain empty and partly derelict for 30 years and is now hidden behind scaffolding and a giant hoarding.

Owner Derek Souter, director of Union Street Properties, invited the Evening Times to tour the impressive structure. What we found was a building crying out for attention, with plaster falling off the walls and ceilings, and decades of neglect evident round every corner.

Mr Souter said: “I believe the building is very close to being unable to be repaired, which would mean it would eventually become dangerous.”

If that happened, it is almost certain the Egyptian Halls would have to be demolished and the site cleared ... continues @ ET (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/2-3m-plea-for-historic-city-icon-1.1071858)

So the full restoration project will cost £24m (or £19m from this point on, given that £5m has already been spent).

Union Street Properties are apparently willing to invest a further £14m, GCC will invest £1m and Historic Scotland will invest £1.65m. This sums to £16.65m of secured investment, with £2.35m outstanding.

Is Derek Souter really saying that £19m is enough to rescue the building from oblivion and turn it into a hotel, but subtracting £2.35m from that figure will result in almost certain demolition of the building? Will it realistically cost more than £16.65m just to make the building structurally sound and weathertight? Seriously, I've got no idea what kind of condition the building's in.

Will it realistically cost more than £16.65m just to make the building structurally sound and weathertight? Seriously, I've got no idea what kind of condition the building's in.

I think he's trying to say that the business model they have for the development requires another £19M. His firm are willing / can afford to cough up another £14M with the shortfall having to come from outside agencies/ grants etc. It sounds like a case of his firm are only interested in a full redevelopment otherwise it is not viable. ie. They aren't going to spend money on getting the place wind and water tight for the sake of it, just to preserve the building (Thats not what property developers do). They need a development which can generate income and justify the works, hence the £19M.

I think he's trying to say that the business model they have for the development requires another £19M. His firm are willing / can afford to cough up another £14M with the shortfall having to come from outside agencies/ grants etc. It sounds like a case of his firm are only interested in a full redevelopment otherwise it is not viable. ie. They aren't going to spend money on getting the place wind and water tight for the sake of it, just to preserve the building (Thats not what property developers do). They need a development which can generate income and justify the works, hence the £19M.

Thanks for the information - it more or less confirmed my meandering thoughts. It's been difficult to penetrate this project, what with the various inconsistencies in the information leaked out over the years.

Oh well. Endgame, here we come... :sly:

Oh well. Endgame, here we come... :sly:

I wouldn't be so sure. I think these kind of articles are usually publicity stunts to raise awareness and secure funding or at least put pressure on different agencies/schemes. The last thing the council wants is for this developer to pull out.

Or could it be that the developer doesn't really want to carry this through and funding is a good argument to hide behind.......

Maybe a need here for a wee bit of a reality check - we are in a epoch-ending, post-credit- crunch recession.

Developers have no money (zilch) with which to fund problematic and challenging schemes like this one. Given that the public sector purse is being forced to carry the costs of the credit crunch et al, there are no free funds to be secured or pressured out of “agencies/schemes”.

Oh, and of course the entire banking industry has already well and truly left the room loaded with taxpayer-funded rescue aid. They have little intention of doing anything with this taxpayers’ aid other than shoring up their balance sheets – and they most certainly are not lending it out to problematic and challenging inner-city projects.

No, all-in-all, this is indeed increasingly looking like yet another endgame. Of course it may end like other Greek Thomson buildings in Glasgow, with a mysterious fire on the eve of a bank holiday, followed by a quick Council Building Control Committee approved demolition.

Maybe a need here for a wee bit of a reality check - we are in a epoch-ending, post-credit- crunch recession.

Who needs a reality check?
What has been said that is so out of touch with reality? No one here has criticised the development (or lack of) as far as I can see. People are speculating as to the future of this scheme, as no one really knows the exact position.

I'm sure every one, by now, knows the financial backdrop in our country, hence the reason this projects funding is being discussed. The developer has every right to ask external agencies/schemes for funding, the answer may be "NO" but if you don't ask, you'll never know.

No, all-in-all, this is indeed increasingly looking like yet another endgame. Of course it may end like other Greek Thomson buildings in Glasgow, with a mysterious fire on the eve of a bank holiday, followed by a quick Council Building Control Committee approved demolition.

Nah, this isn't some random building out in the sticks, its in a prominent city centre site. They can't allow this building to fall, its far too important for that fate.

If the council were smart they would use the regeneration of this building as a catalyst for reforming what has become one of the most unpleasant thoroughfares in the city. Pedestrianise it and shift the bus traffic to the financial district.

Nah, this isn't some random building out in the sticks, its in a prominent city centre site. They can't allow this building to fall, its far too important for that fate.

Indiekid that would be nice and comforting to think that, - but it has been disproved many, many times in the history of the city.

We could start with the Greek Thompson tenement row in the Gorbals in the 70s (but if that's nor city-centre enough, what about the one in Argyle Street (circa 80s I think)... or his warehouse buildings at Bell Street... or his original offices at the corner of West Regent Street and Wellington Street that were declared unsafe and promptly demolished ever so quickly, and ever so equally quickly were replaced by the eyesore that is there today? Or there were the Virginia (Street) Galleries (declared unsafe on the eve of another holiday period and demolished – of course ‘in the interest of public safety’)

Or what about the works of other great architects of the period? There was the particularly unforgivable loss of stewardship by the City fathers with the loss of the unforgettable, pagan monolithic Elgin Place Church (which of course fell foul of the mysterious fire on the eve of a bank holiday followed by instant demolition syndrome, that is not unknown in Glasgow)? That became something of a watershed on damage to the City’s conservation credentials claims.

This recurrent history was a prime reason, I suspect, for the move away from Glasgow of the disillusioned, I suspect, champion of Greek Thompson, Sir Gavin Stamp.

If anyone really needs any more realpolitic facts, they could do worse than refer to the Greek Tragedy thread that has been running for years on the Hidden Glasgow board.

P.S. bestbud, I don't think I understand how your response relates at all to what I posted.

P.S. bestbud, I don't think I understand how your response relates at all to what I posted.
Ok, to put it very simply:

You said "...time for a reality check here...."
I asked in reply, "who needs a reality check?"

I asked this because I've not seen any posts which around out of touch with reality. Feel free to point them out if there are any.

Not exactly a major issue, I was just trying to clarify what you were getting at, (a bit like Celtic FC :lol: ).

If the council were smart they would use the regeneration of this building as a catalyst for reforming what has become one of the most unpleasant thoroughfares in the city. Pedestrianise it and shift the bus traffic to the financial district.


That's a bloody brilliant idea, two birds with one stone...

Pedestrianise it and shift the bus traffic to the financial district.

I wouldn't say pedestrianise it, surely it's a benefit to have some sort of transport connections so close the central?

Was sitting in the bus yesterday for a good 20 minutes just waiting on the bus to actually get to the stop, it's a joke atm.

I'd say turn it into a semi-bus station type situation. Ban all other traffic, and create stands something like the bus station, where buses reverse in and out (or in actual fact just a similar situation as the bus station at Braehead-no reversing required.)

Or... create an island down the middle with another row of stops (take away the parking and traffic, I reckon you'd just about fit it in.)

Coming Soon: Gap Site In Prime City Centre Location!

Last ditch talks to save city’s ‘Egyptian’ treasure (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/last-ditch-talks-to-save-city-s-egyptian-treasure-1.1084006)

The future of a historic city centre building facing demolition will be discussed at a public meeting later this month.

In December, the Evening Times revealed the future looked bleak for the 138-year-old, A-Listed Egyptian Halls in Union Street, which are lying derelict.

The building, opposite the side entrance to Central Station, was designed by Alexander “Greek” Thomson and is regarded as one of the finest in Glasgow.

Owner Derek Souter, director of Union Street Properties, wants to restore it to its former glory and create a 250 bedroom hotel along with 200 jobs.

Union Street Properties and sister company Union Street Investments have so far spent £5million on the project and Mr Souter says they are willing to invest a further £12m.

The city council agreed a £1m grant and Historic Scotland a grant of around £1.65m

Mr Souter said he needs the Scottish Government to provide an extra £2.35million to allow work to start.

But Historic Scotland insists it will not be able to provide the project with any more cash.

Mr Souter has now invited representatives of the Scottish Government and a wide range of interested organisations to attend a public meeting in the Lighthouse on February 23 to discuss the future of the building.

Mr Souter said: “There are two options – one is to refurbish and regenerate the Egyptian Halls and the other is to demolish it and rebuild.

“Every stakeholder, from Glasgow City Council, Historic Scotland, the Scottish Government, the Labour Party, Glasgow Chamber of Commerce and the Greek Thomson Society have been invited.

“I have called the meeting so everyone realises the potential danger of this building being lost.

“I want them to come along and listen to what is being said about the project rather than try to ignore it and hope it is left to someone else to sort out.

“Everyone talks a good game about preserving Greek Thomson buildings but very few people put up the money that is required.”

The Egyptian Halls have lain partly derelict for 30 years and are currently hidden behind a giant hoarding.

Mr Souter said the building suffered badly in the severe weather earlier this winter.

Members of the public who want to attend the meeting should contact Mr Souter by emailing him on derek@djscm.com

If this building goes I'm leaving Glasgow

Coming Soon: Gap Site In Prime City Centre Location!

Last ditch talks to save city’s ‘Egyptian’ treasure (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/last-ditch-talks-to-save-city-s-egyptian-treasure-1.1084006)
Sometimes, it feels like beautiful buildings get taken hostage in Glasgow. Only instead of a gun to their head, it's a lit match to the petrol-soaked newspapers at the back door.

Anyone up for maintaining a vigil around public holiday time? Or running a sweep? :(

Mr Souter said: “There are two options – one is to refurbish and regenerate the Egyptian Halls and the other is to demolish it and rebuild.

What in the hell? What would be the point in that! How would the council justify this one in terms of 'retaining it will cost more than to demolish it and build something more substantial.' They've always used this excuse when they wished to put up something which isn't half the significance of what was previously there.

Doesn't really make sense if they're planning on building a replica, if not a cheap ass attempt at it if this is going to go forward.

What a shame that this building is even in this situation. If they demolish it they should be ashamed of themselves and will only leave half of the Glaswegians bealing because they let it get into such demise. Any other city in the world with their heads screwed on tight would salvage this beauty in a second. I'm not quite understanding the money situation however. Is the restoration really not going ahead because the public funding has been slim?

I'm guessing also they can't set this one alight, considering it has wall-to-wall neighbouring buildings and isn't in a deserted wasteland lot.

On a final note, is anyone going to be attending this meeting being held at the Lighthouse on the 23rd February?

Threaten to CPO it and give him £1 and tell him to f*ck off and dangle a peppercorn 50 year lease to any hotel developer with ambition who will restore the building and bring it back into use.

He will soon change his tune instead of holding a gun to the head of the governent.

A video explaining the ins and outs of the Egyptian Halls.

http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/presentation.html

http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/Images/img_pres.jpg

In all likelihood, this building's a goner.

Egyptian Halls face demolition threat (http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/2742/Egyptian_Halls_face_demolition_threat.html)

Reverse-psychology... I like your thinkin' ;)

Reverse-psychology... I like your thinkin' ;)

In the absence of any actual hope for this building, reverse psychology is the only way to go...

The Egyptian Halls saga just doesn't add up.

Not that I'm one to doubt the honesty and altruism of property developers, but maybe demolition and new-build was the hidden objective all along. :dunno:

No way would the council let them build anything like this :ohno: :bash: :nuts:.

Egyptian Halls redevelopment options published

http://static2.urbanrealm.com/images/cache/news/5245cdef743654213ce0706c3cfada58.jpg

Dundonian property developer Derek Souter has published his “final opportunity” plans to regenerate Glasgow’s Egyptian Halls, warning that demolition is on the cards if the impasse can’t be broken.

It puts forward a rationale to demolish the A listed structure, a plan which would see the Thomson masterpiece swept away for an 12 storey, 225 bed ‘Egyptian Halls Hotel’ designed by the Morrisson Partnership. This is centred on the “non viability” for Union Street Properties to fund the redevelopment whilst retaining the Halls owing to current economic situation.

The report notes: “If such circumstances do not improve in the short to medium term then there is a strong likelihood that development based upon retention of the existing building as an Hotel and other complementary Leisure and Retail uses will not get underway for many years. The longer those circumstances continue, it is increasingly unlikely such a project will happen. In which case the only option will be a New Build Development.”

USP stated that they did not "dispute at all that The Egyptian Halls is without doubt a hugely important, iconic building" adding that "demolition would not be ordinarily considered. However this is an extraordinary building, which has required extraordinary intervention for a long, long time now. The Scottish Government have stated they won’t become involved so the only other alternative becomes the ONLY alternative!”

Structural engineer John Addison said: “There has been a progressive erosion of all the "positive" elements which had at one time made this project viable in terms of a "conservation" approach rather than the previous "gut and stuff" one which would end up with all internals replaced leaving perhaps only the front facade.”

Souter said: “As developers for the past 13 years USP & USI have managed to secure the foundations and the controlling ownership interest, which should have already saved the Egptian Halls. However this has not yet been achieved due primarily to the absence of joined up effective government.”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/2876/Egyptian_Halls_redevelopment_options_published.html

No way would the council let them build anything like this

No way does Derek Souter have any real intention of trying to get planning permission for anything like that. It looks like another of his emotional blackmail schemes to get some more public money for his private development - which it is now abundantly clear he could never afford in the first place.

No way would the council let them build anything like this :ohno: :bash: :nuts:.

Egyptian Halls redevelopment options published

http://static2.urbanrealm.com/images/cache/news/5245cdef743654213ce0706c3cfada58.jpg

Dundonian property developer Derek Souter has published his “final opportunity” plans to regenerate Glasgow’s Egyptian Halls, warning that demolition is on the cards if the impasse can’t be broken.

It puts forward a rationale to demolish the A listed structure, a plan which would see the Thomson masterpiece swept away for an 12 storey, 225 bed ‘Egyptian Halls Hotel’ designed by the Morrisson Partnership. This is centred on the “non viability” for Union Street Properties to fund the redevelopment whilst retaining the Halls owing to current economic situation.

The report notes: “If such circumstances do not improve in the short to medium term then there is a strong likelihood that development based upon retention of the existing building as an Hotel and other complementary Leisure and Retail uses will not get underway for many years. The longer those circumstances continue, it is increasingly unlikely such a project will happen. In which case the only option will be a New Build Development.”

USP stated that they did not "dispute at all that The Egyptian Halls is without doubt a hugely important, iconic building" adding that "demolition would not be ordinarily considered. However this is an extraordinary building, which has required extraordinary intervention for a long, long time now. The Scottish Government have stated they won’t become involved so the only other alternative becomes the ONLY alternative!”

Structural engineer John Addison said: “There has been a progressive erosion of all the "positive" elements which had at one time made this project viable in terms of a "conservation" approach rather than the previous "gut and stuff" one which would end up with all internals replaced leaving perhaps only the front facade.”

Souter said: “As developers for the past 13 years USP & USI have managed to secure the foundations and the controlling ownership interest, which should have already saved the Egptian Halls. However this has not yet been achieved due primarily to the absence of joined up effective government.”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/2876/Egyptian_Halls_redevelopment_options_published.html

Please tell me this is a joke!!!!! they couldnt would they!!!

Looks like the Demolition is about to become reality.:ohno:

Reference: 11/00597/DC Community Cnl: Anderston
Address: 84-100 Union Street Glasgow
Proposal: Demolition of category A listed Egyptian Halls
Date Received: 15.03.2011 Date Valid: 20.04.2011
Applicant
Details:
Union Street Properties Ltd
Agent Details:
The Morrison Partnership
24 Queensferry Road EDINBURGH EH4 2BP
Ward: Anderston/City Representation Expiry Date: 20.05.2011
Type: Listed Building Consent incl
Demolition
Level:
Case Officer: Mr K McCormack, 0141 287 8443
Listing: A Cons Area: Central Area
Map Reference: (E) 258862 (N) 665266

Planning submission has been on the cards for a while now Mo.

All brinkmanship and bluff....

Dangerous territory. I wonder who is advising him?

I call shenanigans.

Once this application is rejected - as it will be - Souter will be pictured again in the ET inside his run-down building, under his leaking roof, putting on his best 'I'm so concerned' face.

This is what we all want please retain.

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/images/jpgs/egyptian_halls_d270411_5.jpg

Glorious.

Some fine detailing of the facade from RCAHMS (http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/126676/digital_images/glasgow+84+100+union+street+egyptian+halls/)

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/906848/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/1026321/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/388197/

Beautiful pictures! Thankyou!

A nice reminder of what we have...and it is not going anywhere...whatever some pathetic "developer" tells the evening times!

Threat to demolish historic Greek Thomson building
The Herald 5th May 2011

THE owner of an iconic Glasgow building, often described as Alexander “Greek” Thomson’s masterpiece, has applied for permission to have it demolished.

Property developer Derek Souter, who took total ownership of the A-listed Egyptian Halls three years ago after a decade’s wrangling, said that as long-standing plans for a hotel were no longer financially viable and because local and national government will not provide sufficient grants, there was no option but to pull it down.

An application has already been submitted to Glasgow City Council in recent weeks, with the hotel plans now coming with a cost of around £20 million, five times what it would have cost a decade ago.

Mr Souter said a grant of £2.6m had already been offered but around £6m was required to make it work, adding it would create 200 jobs and repay any grant or loan within a decade in business rates.

However, the city council and Historic Scotland are expected to oppose the move, with many within the authority seeing it as an attempt by the developer to force them into coming up with several million pounds.

The council, Scottish Government and Historic Scotland have all said they cannot provide sufficient funding.

The theory that Mr Souter’s move is designed to put pressure on authorities has been given added weight by the emergence of a Facebook site set up to “Save The Egyptian Halls”.

The site says: “Planning permission is being sought to demolish Union Street’s historic Egyptian Halls, completed in 1872. The building is one of the most spectacular examples of the work of internationally-renowned Victorian architect Alexander “Greek” Thomson.

“Unless public money can be found to save it, the building may be condemned as soon as summer 2011 and demolished. Once the developers have been granted permission to knock it down, Scotland will lose one of its architectural jewels.”

A report prepared for Mr Souter says the Halls have European importance and would not usually be considered for demolition, but that demolition and a new build “is viable in every sense” and is the only way his firm can avoid insolvency.

It adds: “This is an extraordinary building, which has required extraordinary intervention for a long, long time now. The Scottish Government have stated they won’t become involved so the only other alternative becomes the only alternative.

“There are significant obstacles presented by the current market conditions which frustrate the preservation and development of the Egyptian Halls. The likelihood that retail or mixed-use development will get underway at the site for a number of years is highly unlikely and probably impossible without combined support from Glasgow City Council/Historic Scotland/Scottish Government. So far there are no indications that such support is likely.”

A city council spokesman said: “The council has been in discussion with the owner of the Egyptian Halls for a considerable time over the development of this very important piece of Glasgow’s architectural heritage. We remain very keen to see this very important building brought back into use, and while we have not fully considered the application, it is unlikely that the council would support any proposal for demolition.”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/threat-to-demolish-historic-greek-thomson-building-1.1099614

I hope this prick does go bankrupt for having the disrespect to put in a demolition notice - even if it is only a bluff. :ohno:

Piss or get off the pan Mr Souter. Sell it to someone who can afford to do it up without a tax subsidy.

"Property developer Derek Souter, who took total ownership of the A-listed Egyptian Halls three years ago after a decade’s wrangling, said that as long-standing plans for a hotel were no longer financially viable and because local and national government will not provide sufficient grants, there was no option but to pull it down."

Were the Council to agree to this (:lol:) they would set a bizarre precedent. The gates would be opened for any old chancer to purchase a listed building with promises of renovation, plead poverty when it comes time to deliver, and then apply for demolition when the public purse won't open wide enough to bail him out.

With Souter, despite all his impressive spin over the years, we have ended up with yet another delinquent owner of the Egyptian Halls.

This building simply cannot come down.

It is one of Glasgows best. They need to CPO this idiot.

Structurally this building is completely sound - behind the facade is a steel frame with concrete and metaldeck flooring. It isnt dangerous and would even be difficult to set on fire as steel and concrete dont burn too well.

I pray that this gets saved. Apartments or a hotel or something.

:cool:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/254512_211010442268189_195086167193950_533838_3220631_n.jpg

if i sign a petition to save the egyptian halls, it will be to save it from union street properties.

It's rather incongruous that the petition and Facebook group to "Save the Egyptian Halls" have been set up by the same guy who has recently applied for permission to demolish them.

Much of the media coverage of this affair has omitted that fact.

Should set up a petition to save them from dodgy dundonians

It's rather incongruous that the petition and Facebook group to "Save the Egyptian Halls" have been set up by the same guy who has recently applied for permission to demolish them.

Much of the media coverage of this affair has omitted that fact.

Anyone know why this petition has been set up, if it's been created by the guy who wants to pull it down? Is he just looking for a groundswell of popular support for the Halls, to try and secure public funding?

Anyone know why this petition has been set up, if it's been created by the guy who wants to pull it down? Is he just looking for a groundswell of popular support for the Halls, to try and secure public funding?

He's already secured public funding - but he wants more. Having burned his bridges with the Council and Historic Scotland by running to the press every time they turn down his requests for another big duffel bag of non-sequential unmarked bills, he's now decided to play the public for suckers.

Maybe he should forego the petition and just force everyone who turns up tomorrow to stick their wallets, purses and jewellery into a bin bag. It's the public's money he wants, in the end, and that would cut out the middleman.


http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/developer-needs-names-to-save-halls-1.1108269

Developer needs names to save halls
Rachel Loxton
24 Jun 2011

The owner of the historic Egyptian Halls is appealing to the public to help save the building – despite applying for permission to flatten it.

Derek Souter is holding a petition day tomorrow outside the 138-year-old A-Listed Alexander “Greek” Thomson building to gather support for his campaign.

The halls, opposite the side entrance of Central Station in Union Street, have lain vacant since around 1980 and are now covered in scaffolding.

Mr Souter, director of Union Street Properties (USP) and Union Street Investments (USI), claims he was forced to apply to Glasgow City Council to have the property demolished because of rising renovation costs.

But despite this he says he still wants to save the building.

He said: “It’s about raising awareness. We will dress the scaffolding boards with posters to raise awareness of what we’re trying to do – save the Egyptian Halls.”

USP and USI have so far spent £5 million on the project and are willing to invest a further £12m.

The city council agreed a £1m grant and Historic Scotland a grant of around £1.65m but Mr Souter says this is not enough.

A council spokesman said: “We have been in discussion with Mr Souter for a considerable time.

“We remain very keen to see the building brought back into use... it is unlikely that the council would support any proposal for demolition.”

A Historic Scotland spokeswoman called the Egyptian Halls “one of Glasgow’s most historically significant buildings”.

Many believe the redevelopment of the Thomson masterpiece would aid the regeneration of Union Street.

Mr Souter, whose original plan was to restore the Egyptian Halls to their former glory and create a 250-bedroom hotel, added: “We want some politicians to turn up [on Saturday] and say they want to save the building. We want people to turn up and say yeah rather than talk about it and blame the developer.

“This project has taken 31 years to solve. It needs input from everyone, from the public and private sector. It needs collaboration.”

The petition will be available to sign from 9am-12pm tomorrow outside the Egyptian Halls in Union Street.

attention seeking prick?

Hi Folks,

Just got this via e-mail:

Our ref: NOTIFICATION OF DECISION
GCC Application Ref: 11/00597/DC

7 July 2011

Dear Sir/Madam

SITE: 84-100 Union Street Glasgow

PROPOSAL: Demolition of category A listed Egyptian Halls

DECISION: Refuse


Utterly predictable no?

How long do you give Mr Souter until the inevitable press release appears?

How long before the obligatory fire?

how long before i track this prick down and give him one, swift back-hander, right across his transparent jaw.

seriously though, does this expect this campaign to work?

cpo.

:lol:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/TheeBoards/pow-right-in-the-kisser-family-guy_design.png

The guy would have known the demolition application would be refused. The application was designed to stoke interest for his Facebook page and petition, which it did. But, interest doesn't equal money, and it's money he needs.

His plan was the plan of a child.

Even if he really believes he has been acting in the building's best interests all this time, he has to realise that unless he finds more private cash he's sunk.

He'd be as well putting the building on the market now.

parp
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/5916829399_6a30d8ae6e.jpg

:laugh:

The 'Save the Egyptian Halls' Facebook group is pleased with the refusal to allow demolition.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-The-Egyptian-Halls/195086167193950?sk=wall

Derek Souter's posts are a fun read. He's trying to stay tight with the other posters, but it won't be pretty if, or when, they turn on him. Some are getting a bit restless.

:popcorn:


http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/2998/Administration_threat_looms_over_Egyptian_Halls_ground_floor.html

Administration threat looms over Egyptian Halls ground floor
6 Jul 2011

Accountancy firm KPMG have served formal court papers to Derek Souter in relation to Personal Guarantees relating to a £2m loan made to Union Street Properties, which owns the Ground Floor.

Souter avers that he is likely to have an offer of re-finance available very soon but that there is now a “possibility” of the ground floor units (owned by USP) being placed in asministration.

The remainder of the property is owned by Union Street Investments, Souter’s sister company which, the developer vows, will collaborate with DBS-KPMG if and when they take it over.

Souter said: “The court action will be resisted vigorously and I'd surmise a claim for Damages will now also be launched against Dunfermline Building Society (DBS) in relation to their "alleged contractual breach" of the signed agreement.

"For the record DBS did enter Administration and in effect did go out of business and stopped lending despite having still in place a contractual agreement to lend and additional £2M to USP. For the record if the PG's are legally due, then they'll be paid!”

Union Street Investments Ltd, are to shortly submit a planning application for the conversion of Alexander Thomson’s Egyptian Halls to a 134 bed hotel.

The “expanded extension” will be modeled on Cooper Cromar’s G1 building by the Morrison Partnership and cost £20m to deliver.

The application comes despite failure to resolve a ground floor deficit being shouldered by Union Street Properties

USI director Derek Souter said: “We’ve taken cognisance of all input from the relevant Heritage Groups like AHSS, Scottish Civic Trust and the RIAS. “We owe it to all, to take this to the limit and if Planning is approved then the Scottish Government will have the opportunity to part fund and immediately green light a very significant project”.

The scheme would be reliant on £1m in grant funding from Historic Scotland, which is now time barred..

http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/3030/Egyptian_Halls_planning_application_to_be_submitted.html

Finally the farce is over, lets just hope that extension doesn't ruin it.

Great news about the AGT Egyptian halls. :)

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/552539_419351364767428_235972952_n.jpg



Some of the AGT design features still in existence within the building.

rcahms (http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/user_images/l/6/5845773556/)

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/user_images/l/1/5845252701/

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/user_images/l/6/5845773556/

‘Final’ Egyptian Halls application submitted

Urban Realm 24th August 2012

A ‘final’ application for the redevelopment of Glasgow’s A-listed Egyptian Halls has been made by its owners to secure the long term commercial viability of the crumbling structure via conversion to a hotel.

Prepared by the Morrison Partnership, who have been looking at the scheme since 2008, the plans call for the erection of a two-storey rooftop extension clad in a silver background grid, cladding which would also be applied to re-forming the rear external wall, which is in poor condition.

Richard Heggie, planning consultant for the scheme, said: "This proposal presents what may be a final opportunity to save the Egyptian Halls. We know that’s the outcome the building owners, the City Council, Historic Scotland, the Scottish Government and above all, the public would like to see.

“There’s no appetite for demolition - too many Greek Thomson buildings have been lost already. However, without public subsidy the project won’t stack up. We’ve aimed to minimise the cost to the public purse and have highlighted that reuse of the building will generate significant business rates for the Council.

“The wider benefits to the regeneration of Union Street are equally important. That’s effectively a condition of the Scottish Government’s approval of TIF funding for the Buchanan Quarter.

“The Egyptian Halls should be a flagship project - a statement of confidence in Glasgow's rebirth and Scotland's cultural heritage."

Developer Derek Souter hopes to obtain approval by December, he said: “In parallel with the relevant stakeholders USI are collaborating effectively with USP Ltd, which owns the ground floor and basements, and its current funder DBS-KPMG to bridge the funding deficit - primarily due to structural marketplace depression combined with 32 years of dereliction.”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_3695.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2286.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2285.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2284.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/3695/%E2%80%98Final%E2%80%99_Egyptian_Halls_application_submitted_.html

This guy owns an architectural gem and is absolutely obsessed about getting public money to compensate for it. What planet does he live on? Although the glass box will be controversial, it will hopefully be set back enough as to let the original building breathe. Bringing this back into use is a great idea, just don't put any hot food places beneath it so it can't burn down when it becomes unprofitable.

Glass extensions, if done properly, can really add to a building eg the GPO building. But that render looks awful.

Derek Souter is certainly a Chancer!

Union Street has so much potential but it is a total mess currently. If this gets the go ahead then hopefully the street as a whole benefits greatly.

Union Street has so much potential but it is a total mess currently. If this gets the go ahead then hopefully the street as a whole benefits greatly.

Without wanting to get into the pedetrianisation debate again, Union St's major problem is that it isn't pedestrianised. It's my least favourite place to be in the city centre, it is so, so fucking busy with traffic.

Without wanting to get into the pedetrianisation debate again, Union St's major problem is that it isn't pedestrianised. It's my least favourite place to be in the city centre, it is so, so fucking busy with traffic.

Problem is its the main bus artery heading south and I'm not sure where else you could divert them.

Problem is its the main bus artery heading south and I'm not sure where else you could divert them.
I've sometimes wondered whether some could be diverted on to Wellington Street. Would require some changes near the river, as Robertson Street is a bit narrow, and traffic flows would need changing. However, I'm sure a local transport authority with some can-do spirit could manage it.

Ah, I might just have spotted the flaw in my idea there...

Ah, I might just have spotted the flaw in my idea there...

:lol:

Those Egyptian Halls visualisations are a cry for help. They're incredibly amateur, and I can't believe that whoever issued them wasn't aware of that.

I'd quite like to know who felt the need to (incompetently) doctor a ground-level photo to include floating clutter that doesn't exist in real life - including traffic lights both outside the Halls and in the middle of the road.

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2284.jpg

I know an image as blatantly dishonest as this wouldn't have emanated from or been endorsed by any person or firm with any sense of pride or any reputation worth preserving.

I found it hosted here (http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/scheme.html).

The middle of the road thing is a bit odd, but the ones outside the halls - I think this is a genuine pedestrian crossing installed not so long ago to align with the side entrance to Central.

^^

As someone who's been away from Glasgow for a while, I'll have to take your word for that. I can't accept the headless person crossing the road, the set of legs walking around without a torso, or the Burger King and Toys & Tinsel signs that stopped making sense when the scaffold to which they were attached was edited out.

It looks like several images have been merged, by someone without any interest in the quality of the final image, into a base photo riddled with artifacts and wholly unsuitable for promotional use - which has then had an old photo of the Halls and a new rendered box clumsily added to it and been placed on a property development website.

This image should become legend. I'd pay Alan Dunlop to draw this with a Rotring. :bow:

Ah, memories...

http://web.archive.org/web/20040829061528/http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk/

Planning in or Egyptian Halls.


Reference: 12/01707/DC Community Cnl: Blythswood And Broomielaw (Inactive)

Address: Egyptian Halls 92 Union Street Glasgow

Proposal: Redevelopment, extension and alteration of listed building comprising erection of two storey
extension at roof level, installation of replacement shopfronts, removal and replacement of rear
elevation, associated repair works, use of ground floor and basement of building as
bar/restaurant and retail and part ground and upper floors as hotel.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Reference: 12/01708/DC Community Cnl: Blythswood And Broomielaw (Inactive)

Address: Egyptian Halls 92 Union Street Glasgow

Proposal: Redevelopment and extension of and internal and external alteration to listed building
comprising erection of two storey extension at roof level, installation of replacement shopfronts,
removal and replacement of rear elevation and associated repair works.

Date Received: 21.08.2012 Date

Valid: 21.08.2012
Applicant Details:
USP/USI Ltd
Agent Details: TPS Planning, Per Richard Heggie, CBC House 24 Canning Street EDINBURGH

Ward: Anderston/City Representation Expiry Date: 28.09.2012

Type: Listed Building Consent Level:

Case Officer: Ms S Connelly, 0141 287 6095

Listing: A Cons Area: Central Area

Map
Reference:
(E) 258864 (N) 665260

The plans for this are very messy looking, and they're pretty much trying to force the council into accepting them. Virtually saying pass the planning app or We'll demolish it one way or another. Then they've come up with a petition getting people to sign up to save the halls, the owner is a joke!

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j403/mr_b1/eh.jpg

The rooftop extension looks downright awful and is far too close to the existing frontage of the building, it should be set further back so as not to detract from the magnificent frontage as existing. Also who would want to stay in a hotel where almost all the rooms have columns right in the middle of the room?! Surely the architects could have worked around the existing columns???

The renders are an absolute joke also, as highlighted above in the thread.

:ohno:

How did such a beautiful building end up in the hands of such loony. :ohno:

The whole thing is just a massive piss-take now. Souter hasn't got the money to do anything with the building, and he'll never get permission to demolish it. He's screwed, and has been for some time.

Several documents relating to the EH development online now.

12/01707/DC (https://publicaccess.glasgow.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=externalDocuments&keyVal=M9EUISEX0FZ00) | Redevelopment, extension and alteration of listed building comprising erection of two storey extension at roof level, installation of replacement shopfronts, removal and replacement of rear elevation, associated repair works, use of ground floor and basement of building as bar/restaurant and retail and part ground and upper floors as hotel. | Egyptian Halls 92 Union Street Glasgow G1 3QW

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k484/mori786/ehn.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k484/mori786/ehext.jpg

Egyptian Halls plaster detailing uncovered

Urban Realm 28th September 2012

Planned alterations to Glasgow’s A-listed Egyptian Halls have been given a boost after previously unseen period details were discovered, hidden behind a suspended ceiling.

George Morrison of the Morrison Partnership, architects of a planned hotel conversion for the site, uncovered the plasterwork during a routine site inspection, he told Urban Realm: “The photos give some indication of original plaster detailing existing in ground floor areas for capitals, cornices and ceiling roses.

“We had a suspicion it was there and we had found some of it previously so it wasn’t a total surprise.

“We don’t know the full extent of the remaining detailing because we don’t know what’s been damaged by people in the past when they were putting up suspended ceilings, but we suspect there will be quite a bit still salvageable.

“The fact that someone has put suspended ceilings up has probably helped to protect these because other people haven’t been inclined to do any work above the suspended ceilings and the shopfitters have confined themselves to what they can see.”

A full survey will take place once a strip out ahead of refurbishment takes place, for which The Morrison Partnership remain in discussion with the planning department.

Images taken by Gerald Blaikie.

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_3769.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2388.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/newspic_2390.jpg

http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/3769/Egyptian_Halls_plaster_detailing_uncovered.html

‘Shovel ready’ Egyptian Halls redevelopment wins planning

Urban Realm 20th December 2012

Derek Souter, the developer behind the planned redevelopment of Alexander Thomson’s Egyptian Halls to form a new hotel, is celebrating an early Christmas present after Glasgow City Council confirmed that the latest planning application had been approved.

The application was fast tracked following collaboration with Historic Scotland, project architects TMP and TPS planning consultants.

With listed building consent likely to be granted early in the New Year Souter describes the project as ‘shovel ready’, but must still plug an estimated deficit of between £4m and £11.5m in the £20m scheme before this can happen.

Should financing be arranged Souter states that work to transform the upper levels of the building into a 114 room hotel and remodel the ground floor for bar and restaurant use, could commence ‘immediately’.

Souter said: “Early in 2013 it’s the combined responsibility of all project stakeholders to deliver the self-financing funding package, which both preserves and returns to commercial sustainability the Egyptian Halls after a 32-year impasse.”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_3920.jpg

Urban Realm (http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/3920/%E2%80%98Shovel_ready%E2%80%99_Egyptian_Halls_redevelopment_wins_planning.html)

Getting a sense of Deja Vu there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgOPlZGv-HM

ZgOPlZGv-HM

Caledonia Road Church, Glasgow

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0121_zps31a7aa4e.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0130_zpsbfb8b32c.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0126_zps6645f686.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0132_zpsd59d106b.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0143_zps1429e949.jpg

~o0o~

Alexander 'Greek' Thomson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Thomson)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Thomson-med.jpg

'Bastards!'

Walmer Crescent

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0029_zpsadf75adf.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0030_zpsdc3e1fe1.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0002_zps607b720a.jpg

~o0o~

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Glaswegian13/DSC_0036_zpse0b62c7f.jpg

^^

I think these shops are the equivalent of pressing a slice roll into the face of the Mona Lisa. Something radical needs to be done with them. If they're to stay, then I would suggest transforming them into a monument to Alexander Thomson. I'd like to see the row of shops rebuilt in stone so that their roofs form a plinth which runs from one end of the crescent to the other. In the centre of the plinth place a statue of Thomson. On either side of the great man place a series of statues with a Greek theme.

Viz.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/O1jNRgmBSpelyj7d3APjWt6Zo1_500.jpg

A dozen in all, say.

The statues of these maidens needn't be ciphers. In order to draw the crowds to this space on Paisley Road West and get them to spend money in the shops, the faces of the statues should be those which are most universally appealling. For this reason, I'd recommend goddesses of the silver screen. But which ones? I say put it to a vote. Glasgow loves the movies. Let the people decide.

~o0o~

http://i2.listal.com/image/3627477/936full-greta-garbo.jpg

~o0o~

http://classiq.ro/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/rita-hayworth-in-the-lady-from-shanghai.bmp

~o0o~

This masterpiece of nature would definitely get an X from me...

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/ackronomicon/Louise-Brooks-low.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZ9eKRS-KE

ItZ9eKRS-KE

The shops just need to be restored to their original look. Install some smart new paving, some nice heritage lamp posts and it will instantly lift the street.

The shops just need to be restored to their original look. Install some smart new paving, some nice heritage lamp posts and it will instantly lift the street.

You'd be as well just knocking them down, I'm not even sure they're anything special underneath and let's face it - they do nothing for the area.

The shops just need to be restored to their original look. Install some smart new paving, some nice heritage lamp posts and it will instantly lift the street.

I remember that idea being put forward by the then SDA who later became Scottish enterprise after the 1988 Glasgow Garden Festival. Each individual business and shop owner on PRW @ Walmer crescent were approached and offered grants to get the shopfronts restored to their orginal format, none took the council up on their offer, i think the grants were up to about 90% of the costs of the shopfront refurb, the public realm costs were from the council.Would have been a wee slice of heaven and great to get that row of shops to their original format. :)



Virtual Mitchel (http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/index.php?a=subjects&s=gallery&key=SYToyOntpOjA7aToxMTIxO2k6MTtzOjE1OiJQYWlzbGV5IFJkIFdlc3QiO30=)

http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=16066&r=2&t=4&x=1

http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=10987&r=2&t=4&x=1

http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=10994&r=2&t=4&x=1

Sigh. What a shame.
The fruitmonger gave me a pomegranate by throwing it in my hood when I was about 7. I was ridiculously excited by this at the time.

Sigh. What a shame.
The fruitmonger gave me a pomegranate by throwing it in my hood when I was about 7. I was ridiculously excited by this at the time.

Was it Billy from Billys the fruitshop ? he was in that row of shops for many years before that he had a fruit barra at paisley rd toll for many years, used to give away over ripe bananas to eveyone passing that had a bag. :D

Each individual business and shop owner on PRW @ Walmer crescent were approached and offered grants to get the shopfronts restored to their orginal format, none took the council up on their offer, i think the grants were up to about 90% of the costs of the shopfront refurb, the public realm costs were from the council.

In that case, bulldoze the shops with the owners in them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/JamesMc/pastpresent/P1010653.jpg

~o0o~

http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/head_hands.jpg

'In the name of fuck!'

some of the Units still have the original features underneath the plyboarding, that corner unit is to become a Greggs in the next few weeks, not too sure of the listing status on this, maybe they have to preserve it but on the other hand if it restricts the building facade to be built to Greggs spec i dont think the council will bother in making them preserve.



Images from HG Shopfronts Thread (http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11919&p=148477&hilit=walmer+crescent#p148477)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2328021678_a9c70eb149.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/2364631086_401e86ccbb.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2364631938_6d7e3daf4d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/2363800587_1479348ef4.jpg

some of the Units still have the original features underneath the plyboarding, that corner unit is to become a Greggs in the next few weeks, not too sure of the listing status on this, maybe they have to preserve it but on the other hand if it restricts the building facade to be built to Greggs spec i dont think the council will bother in making them preserve.


How gorgeous would restoration be.
Renovating the original features as a working row of shops could work well in the West End but no so sure about Cessnock.

How gorgeous would restoration be.
Renovating the original features as a working row of shops could work well in the West End but no so sure about Cessnock.

West End is Over rated at times IMO, i think it would work here if the owners of these units were made to realise the heritage they already have in their ownership,also the A listed building at the back would justify a complete renovation, in Govan town centre they have already begun a programe to reintroduce the Shopfronts of a bygone era Govan-shopfront-improvements (http://www.clydewaterfront.com/projects/greater-govan--glasgow-harbour/retail/d407---govan-shopfront-improvements) and are hoping to bring back several of the traditional shopfronts with funding from the likes of the heritage lottery fund.

http://www.clydewaterfront.com/media/17859/D407%20Shopfront%20improvement%2019_21%20Burleigh%20Street%20ET1.jpg

I had no idea those facades still existed! Well, on some at least, I'm willing to bet most have seen a club hammer at one point or another. Shame the original roofline has been removed as well. :(

And I'm with you on viability, that part of the road, those shops excepted, is actually in great nick and wouldn't need much to polish up.

How gorgeous would restoration be.
Renovating the original features as a working row of shops could work well in the West End but no so sure about Cessnock.

Hmmm, why do you say that Aunty?

How gorgeous would restoration be.

With you up on that plinth alongside Brooks, Garbo and Hayworth I'd say it would be utterly gorgeous, aunty.

http://image.toutlecine.com/photos/d/i/e/dietrich-marlene-21-g.jpg

Was it Billy from Billys the fruitshop ? he was in that row of shops for many years before that he had a fruit barra at paisley rd toll for many years, used to give away over ripe bananas to eveyone passing that had a bag. :D

Can't remember the guy's name I'm afraid! Would he have been there in the early-mid 80s?

Can't remember the guy's name I'm afraid! Would he have been there in the early-mid 80s?

Probably his son, his name was billy too, very lovely people the whole family, they opend a few other branches in the city after prw... the onslaught of the supermarkets finished their business off by the late 80s early 90s as they did to a lot of other independant businesses and still are to this day.

Hmmm, why do you say that Aunty?

Just a guess. I hope it is incorrect. Seeing as there is the ongoing restoration of exteriors in the area I hope I am wrong.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2328021678_a9c70eb149.jpg
Funnily enough, I was just about to post precisely this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdstrowes/2328021678/); I took this photo one morning when wandering down to Cessnock station.

Wednesday 20 February 2013

ET (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/boost-for-historic-halls-as-20m-hotel-a-step-nearer-116116n.20248903)

Boost for historic Halls as £20m hotel a step nearer


http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/2013/2/20276703.JPG

PLANS to convert one of Glasgow's historic listed buildings into a £20million hotel have taken a step forward.

Boost for historic Halls as £20m hotel a step nearer


The owners of the A-listed Egyptian Halls in Union Street have been granted Listed Building Consent by the Scottish Government agency Historic Scotland.
And Accor Hotels has revised its proposals to create a four-star venue for the city centre, rather than the three-star originally planned.
Derek Souter, of owner USP Ltd's Egyptian Halls Project, said: "This reappraisal, which we had always pushed for, vindicates our long-held belief that Union Street has significant development potential.
"According to Glasgow City Marketing Bureau, there is a need for an extra 17,000 hotel, guest house and bed-and-breakfast bedrooms in the city and surrounding area.
"So once the ground floor is funded, we can also begin to confirm other interested leisure developers whose plans are on hold while we look for extra funding."
The Evening Times reported last August on the plans to convert the Alexander 'Greek' Thomson building into a 114-room three-star hotel.
The building has lain empty for 33 years, coming under threat of demolition in 2011.
However, a public campaign, backed by thousands of people, helped save the Halls.
Franchise Accor Hotels, managed by hotel operator Longrose Buccleuch, had initially planned to convert the building to a mid-range IBIS or Mercure hotel. But now it wants to transform it into one of its upmarket M Hotels, making it one of only 45 worldwide.
Steve Wright, of Accor Hotels, said: "As planning has now been approved we can see the development becoming a very desirable location within Glasgow.
"Accor thinks the Egyptian Halls would make a perfect M Gallery."
Planning permission was granted last December.
Funding for the hotel is secure but a further £10m is needed to refurbish the ground floor level of the Halls.
The owner said the lower level upgrade would rely on "substantial public subsidy", but Glasgow City Council said no funding was currently available.
However, it said the only remaining obstacle to beginning the refurbishment is agreeing public and private sector funding.
Mr Souter said talks were under way and should be concluded in the next two months.
Richard Heggie, planning consultant of TPS Planning, which is also involved in the scheme, said: "This is evidence Glasgow City Council's new and embryonic city centre strategy is beginning to work effectively."

M Gallery mull 4 star Egyptian Halls hotel

Urban Realm 4th March 2013

Developers behind long-running proposals to transform Glasgow’s Egyptian Halls into a new hotel have cleared a significant hurdle with M Gallery signing up as operator of the 4 star venue.

This follows the granting of planning and listed building consent in December and will see upper floors converted for occupation by hotel operator Longrose Buccleugh and franchisor Accor Hotels.

Funding from both private and public sector stakeholders must still be agreed but it is ‘hoped’ that a deal can be struck within two months.

Richard Heggie of TPS Planning said: “This is evidence that GCC’s new and embryonic City Centre strategy is beginning to work effectively. All stakeholders agree that the USP Ground Floor deficit is a challenge but all believe we can unlock the funding sources at the least possible cost to the public purse. Since there will be sizeable regeneration/job creation/business rates which will accrue as a result of this £20M+ investment.”

Architect George Morrison of the Morrison Partnership added: “As it’s now accepted the rear wall has to be replaced, this scheme is without doubt the last opportunity to preserve this architectural masterpiece, which has by and large being empty for the last 33 years!”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_4039.jpg

Urban Realm (http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/4039/M_Gallery_mull_4_star_Egyptian_Halls_hotel.html)

That "render", still.

Just...

TAryFIuRxmQ

That "render", still.

Just...

TAryFIuRxmQ

I had to post that "render", SZJ, because I know 2097 simply adores it.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/face_melt.gif

Full of lulz. That render is nothing short of spectacular.

The floating traffic lights and headless granny make it a winner lol

There is a half man half window/door crossing the road as well. :lol:

:lol::lol:

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_4039.jpg

^^

I'm sure I saw a man run across the street in front of the red car a moment ago, and he was on all fours.

The only thing that's missing from this computer-aided skitter is Binhead...

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_4039.jpg

~o0o~

http://www.pitofhorror.com/newdesign/hellraiser/images/pinhead.gif

'Who?'

~o0o~

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63237000/jpg/_63237629_bin_man.jpg

^^

Binhead (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19783214)

He's not missing, you can clearly see him walking between the headless granny and the red Corsa.

A part time opportunity for a budding architect. :)

Job opportunity: Historic Architecture Project Officer.

Posted on April 5, 2013

http://www.glasgowheritage.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/IMG_2225-280x210.jpg


Architect/architectural graduate required to undertake a Historic Building Study,
Approx 4 months full time project,
£6000 fee,
closing date for applications: 29 April 2013.

The Alexander Thomson Society have an exciting opportunity for an architect/architectural graduate to undertake a practical study of Greek Thomson architectural building elements in Glasgow. The role will involve creating a detailed study collating existing information and undertaking new fieldwork.
Applicants are preferred to have a degree in architecture/conservation or other equal relevant qualification and demonstrable experience in undertaking architectural research. Candidates must also be available for full time work in Glasgow between May -Sept 2013.

To apply, please send a CV and cover letter outlining your interest and experience in architectural conservation to:
Alexander Thomson Society
7 Walmer Crescent
Glasgow G51 1AT
e: sallywhite10@hotmail.com

Flickr Slide Show (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gbarr/sets/72157633179906166/show/) By Gordon barr of Scottish Cinemas @ the AGT Egyptian Halls. :)

Very austere :lol:

http://www.egyptianhalls.co.uk

Lots of pics in the historical archive.