Hello, I'm new to the forum and would appreciate some info. on Montreal. My employer offered me an opportunity to move to Montreal to work on a 2-3 year project. My wife is a Canadian, so I am quite familiar with Canada in general from our travels there to visit relatives. Most of our trips to Candada have been to the Vancouver area and Nova Scotia, so I don't much about Montreal. I'm not sure if I'll accept the position yet, and I wanted to get as much info about the city as possible so that I can make the best position for me and my family.

Here is what I would like to know:
1) My wife is fluent in French, but I don't speak the language. How difficult would it be for me to get by with only speaking English? Are the neighborhoods typically separated into mostly English and French-speaking neighborhoods, or are there areas that are mixed?

2) We have two small children, so is the city kid friendly in general? What neighborhoods predominantly consist of young families?

3) Our office is located in the Northeast part of the island, near the Port of Montreal. How is traffic getting to and from this area? How far could I live from this area without spending more than 45 minutes commuting? How is the parking? How is public transportation?

4) What are the areas outside of the island like? How would the commute be?

5) Ideally, we would like to live in an area where there are other families with children, where we can walk a short distance to parks, shops, etc. Someplace where there is public transportation and good schools. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

1) My wife is fluent in French, but I don't speak the language. How difficult would it be for me to get by with only speaking English? Are the neighborhoods typically separated into mostly English and French-speaking neighborhoods, or are there areas that are mixed?

Unless you work in service sector where you have to deal with public it should not be a problem. It is an international city with a sizeable English community of about 400 000 and 2 English universities, daily newspaper, ect so if you want you can live in English. But if you want to enjoy your stay in Mtl and appreciate the city for what it is, by all means learn it ...

To oversimply it a bid, western part of the island is considered English and eastern part French. At least it has been this way historically, but now these boundaries are pretty much gone. Well, the eastern part is more French than English but it also attracts a lot of immigrants. It is more blue collar and has some of the typical Mtl architecture whereas the western part (referred simply as West Island) is more suburban, middle class and more English. Downtown Mtl has a large English population though due to university students and some established English communities being located right nearby.

2) We have two small children, so is the city kid friendly in general? What neighborhoods predominantly consist of young families?

Not sure what you mean by 'kid friendly'. There are green spaces and such. Playgrounds. Not sure how good the public schools really are, but private ones are higher ranked. Most of the young families move to the suburbs eventually like in other North American cities.

3) Our office is located in the Northeast part of the island, near the Port of Montreal. How is traffic getting to and from this area? How far could I live from this area without spending more than 45 minutes commuting? How is the parking? How is public transportation?

Port of Mtl is in the southeast. Do you mean the actual port or the Vieux Port (which is the equivalent of the old town)? Sometimes people get the two confused since the actual shipping & loading is done upstream from the historic Port which is close to downtown and has pretty much evolved in a tourist trap ...

Traffic is getting worst every year since I live here and roads are not very well maintained. But the city has an extensive metro (60 something stations) and decent suburban rail system. Actually public transportation is better than in your average North American city (except NY or Boston), but the city is getting sprawly. Getting to the city by the bridges can be a hassle sometimes.

If you want to live within 45 of office you have a lot of choices both on the island and on the south shore ... it all depends on your lifestyle.

Parking is getting tight since more people are moving downtown but it is nothing to worry about. Mtl is a pedestrian city, the downtown is anyway ;)

4) What are the areas outside of the island like? How would the commute be?

Suburbs. South Shore communities (longueuil, brossard, ect) are actually closer to downtown than some nieghbourhoods on the island itself. Nice quiet areas with lots of green spaces, but boring and plain. Good for raising kids I guess ...

5) Ideally, we would like to live in an area where there are other families with children, where we can walk a short distance to parks, shops, etc. Someplace where there is public transportation and good schools. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Cote de Neige, Notre Dame de Grace, St.Leonard, Outremont, Brossard come to mind ... there are plenty of nice hoods and it pretty much comes down to your budget, I am pretty sure you will find something for yourself and your family.

Good luck.

1) My wife is fluent in French, but I don't speak the language. How difficult would it be for me to get by with only speaking English? Are the neighborhoods typically separated into mostly English and French-speaking neighborhoods, or are there areas that are mixed?

Like Marek was saying, you can get by with english only in Montreal, but if you really wanna enjoy the city(all of it) french could be pretty usefull! Plus the fact that your wife speaks the language would only make it easier for you to learn the language(practise makes perfect!)

2) We have two small children, so is the city kid friendly in general? What neighborhoods predominantly consist of young families?

Liike any other major north American city, the "familyFriendly" spots are mostly located in the burbs (West island, South Shore, Laval) But more and more families are moving back closer to the core of the city...It depends on your budget!

3) Our office is located in the Northeast part of the island, near the Port of Montreal. How is traffic getting to and from this area? How far could I live from this area without spending more than 45 minutes commuting? How is the parking? How is public transportation?

Yeah, like Marek said, the port is in teh South east. I live on the South SHore(St-Lambert) and commute downtown everyday. It usually takes me 30 to 35 minutes(door to door) Once in a while it may take 45 or 50 minutes(but that's only when there's an accident!) Parking is still pretty cheap, you might have to look for it, but good deals can be found(my parking lot is downtown and costs me 115$ per month. Public transportation is actually very good and monthly pass is dirt cheap(63$) compared to other cities where you could easily pay over 90$ The subway has 65 stations(soon to be 68, with the extension to laval) and the commuter trains are very popular as well.

4) What are the areas outside of the island like? How would the commute be?

I thikn I answered part of your question in my second answer! Anyways, like I said, I live on the South Shore and I must admit, live isn't as fast paced as it may be closer to downtown, but what I always liked about the South Shore is that you can have a nice house(at a reasonnable price) and be less than 7 minutes away from Downtown(outside rush hour periods).

5) Ideally, we would like to live in an area where there are other families with children, where we can walk a short distance to parks, shops, etc. Someplace where there is public transportation and good schools. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

You have many choices to choose from. If you have a bigger budget, I might recommend the West Island (Kirkland, Pointe-Claire) or other cities such as Brossard and St-Lambert on the south shore, as well as Laval(but that's a bit further away) NDG is a good spot and so is Lachine and Ville Lasalle.

In the end, I've always thought that this was one of the better cities to live in. It's not too big(Ie NYC, LA) where traffic is nuts and it's not too small(when you're downtown, you KNOW that your in a cosmopolitan metropolis), and trust me when I say, the Women in this City are simply amazing...especially in the first few months of spring(April and May) when they're all anxious to start peeling off all those layers of winter clothing!! It's the best place in the world to be if you're a hetero guy!

Where are you living know?

I recommend you any neighbourhood near downtown. (Outremont, NDG, Westmount, Plateau, Cotes-des-Neiges...depends on much money you are wiling to spend.

(I don't recommend places like Pointe-St-Charles, Pontiac, etc.)

The guys above have summed it up pretty well.

Here are a few more bits of info. If your kids are of school age they may be forced to attend a French public school. If they are very young this could be a good thing as they will pick up French pretty quickly, specially if Mom can help. However if they are grade 5 or over they may struggle for a while and become very frustrated.

The south western parts of Laval (Chomodey & Sainte Dorothee) also have a sizable English community with very affordable family homes, much less expensive than Montreal. Public Transport to downtown is via the Train. Cost is $5 each way or less for a monthly pass. Via road it is 20 Minutes in off peak times.

Edit: Oh one more thing, I'm not sure where you are now, but Montreal would be one of, if not the coldest large city in North America (and maybe the world). Summers get quite warm, but there is little Spring and Fall as Winters are very long and very cold.

There are some really nice townhouses / rowhouses in the Plateau area. I personally have been to Montreal numerous times and I've fared well with my broken French. Some of my non-French-speaking friends who live there tell me knowing English only is fine. However, it is sometimes useful to know some basic French in case you come across a unilingual French-speaking person, which I think is quite a rare find nowadays.

Thanks to everyone for their replies and for the detailed information about Montreal. It's all very helpful and much appreciated.

Just to clarify some points from your responses:

- I work for a multi-national high tech company, which is based in Germany. Because we have so many offices located all over the world, the company requires all business communication to be in English to simplify the communication over the many regions, including Germany. I would have no language problems on the job, but I am eager and willing to learn French while I am there.

- I have spent just about all of my life living in the Bay Area of California, and I'm currently living in San Jose. I know that Montreal is MUCH colder than I'm used to, and it is definitely a factor. It's hard to beat the weather out here, which came to mind as I took my kids out for a walk to the bakery on Saturday. It was a sunny 70 degrees F, and I was sweating in my long sleeve t-shirt.

- Thanks for pointing out the the port is on the Southeast. I looked at a map, and noticed that the office is between the port and the bridge that connects the island to the south shore. Is the commute easier from the south shore or the Western part of the island? How long would it take to get there from the Western part of the island via public transportation?

- By "kid friendly", I mean a place that has some parks, open areas, good schools, an other families. We enjoy living in an urban environment, but not a "concrete jungle". For example, San Francisco is a great place, but the schools there do not have any grass on the playgrounds. They usually only have a small asphalt play area for the kids to use during recess. Other than Golden Gate park, the city doesn't have a whole lot of green space. Families are moving out if SF in droves, and the city is planning to close up to 18 schools this year. This makes SF, in my view, the opposite of "kid friendly", which is why we live in San Jose. Ideally, we want to live in or VERY close to an urban setting, but we also want that place to be conducive to raising our children.

- How diverse is the West End of the city? I'm Filipino/American and my kids are bi-racial (wife is anglo-Canadian). The area we live in now is one of the diverse in the US, which we thoroughly enjoy. The neighborhood high school here reported that there were almost 40 languages spoken in the homes of its students.

- How large is difference in home prices between the West end and areas off the island? Are most of the homes on the island older homes?

Thanks again.

- How diverse is the West End of the city? I'm Filipino/American and my kids are bi-racial (wife is anglo-Canadian). The area we live in now is one of the diverse in the US, which we thoroughly enjoy. The neighborhood high school here reported that there were almost 40 languages spoken in the homes of its students.



In the island, it's very diverse west of St. Laurent or in the east, Jean-Talon area (Villeray, Parc-Extension) but I would not recommand you this area if you have children. In the west island, english is the first language. If you go out of the island, I recommand Brossard (very ethnic suburb (chinese, arab, black, portuguese , filipino...) and quiet) and Laval but traffic can be a very big problem to go in the island (bridges are always block). Also, you will find a lot of filipino grocery in Cote-Des-Neiges but I don't reccomand the nort part of this district (south of Côte Sainte-Catherine avenue is a very nice area but north of this, it's a bit ghetto).

On your case, I will recommand you the east part of west Island (Dorval, Lachine or Pointe-Claire). You will have some traffic in the morning (St Pierre interchange) but you will be near highway 20, the most direct point to go near the port. (Autoroute Ville-Marie, Tunne Ville-Marie and Notre-Dame and you are in your job).

For the weather issue, I have some friends from other warmer parts of the planet and you will need some times for adaptation but after a couple of months, you will be ok. Do you make ski or snowboard? Cause during the week end, you just have to drive for 30-60 minutes and you will have access to a lot of outdoor activities.

Also, in my own, you will find Montreal very liberal and safe. Police is more discret than all of US cities but you will never feel unsafe in 90% of the Montreal territory.

Education system in Quebec is in big restructuration (strike days , bad relation with goverment) . Do you want to send your children to public school or private school?

- How large is difference in home prices between the West end and areas off the island? Are most of the homes on the island older homes?



Montreal area is divise by what we call ''couronne''. You can also call that a belt.

The first ''couronne'' is the nearest of downtown outside the city (West-Island, Longueuil, Brossard, Laval, Saint-Lambert, Boucherville....). It's the most expensive area. You will find the better public transport, better services. Some of this cities are very ethnic but safe. For a great cottage buit in the 80-90'S, be prepare to pay around 250 000$.

For your case, I recommand Dorval, Pointe-Claire or Brossard (outside the island so traffic can become a problem.)

The second ''couronne'' is the second nearest of Montreal. (Vaudreuil, Boisbriand, Blainville, Repentigny, Sainte-Julie, Chateauguay, Candiac...) Very ''french-speaking'' except for very small area. You will pay probably around 200 000$ for a nice cottage but you will pay less taxes. Public transport is ''decent'' and you can have the commuter trains in most of this cities.

The third ''couronne'' is the cheapest area ( Saint-Jean, L'assomption, Mascouche...) but you are far from the city and public transport is inexistant or anemic. 98% french and nothing attractive in my own. It's the cheap bungalow kingdom. In this belt, you can find very nice area ( Mont-Saint-Hilaire, Hudson (mostly english) , Beloeil) but be prepare to learn french!

Edit: Oh one more thing, I'm not sure where you are now, but Montreal would be one of, if not the coldest large city in North America (and maybe the world). Summers get quite warm, but there is little Spring and Fall as Winters are very long and very cold.

if you consider winter anything under 20C, then yes, winter is 9 months long.

overall, the year is divided in 4 real seasons, winter is winter, autumn is autumn, spring is spring and euh you guessed it, summer is summer. :)

I disagree malek, Spring and Autumn are little more than a foot note. I have been in Montreal for 4.5 years. The last four Octobers read pretty much the same. They start off with temperatures in the low to mid 20's and end with temperatures below freezing. At the other end of the winter the temperature does not stat to get consistently over 10 until May.
Another thing I have noticed is that Quebeckers tend to think the weather here is somewhat normal! You need to go as far south as New York and Philly to get 4 full seasons.

^^ what is the big deal? Mtl is a northern town, defined by cold as much as LA by smog and Phoenix by deserts. There is no way of escaping this, no matter how much modern life makes us believe. Winter must be embraced, else it becomes a pain in the butt.

- I work for a multi-national high tech company, which is based in Germany. Because we have so many offices located all over the world, the company requires all business communication to be in English to simplify the communication over the many regions, including Germany. I would have no language problems on the job, but I am eager and willing to learn French while I am there.

No pressure then. You are in much better position than most people who have no choice but to learn French. And your wife is francophone, sweet. You are set.

- I have spent just about all of my life living in the Bay Area of California, and I'm currently living in San Jose. I know that Montreal is MUCH colder than I'm used to, and it is definitely a factor. It's hard to beat the weather out here, which came to mind as I took my kids out for a walk to the bakery on Saturday. It was a sunny 70 degrees F, and I was sweating in my long sleeve t-shirt.

See Malek ...

Do you like football? Ever seen Packers home games on TV? Well that is what Mtl weather is like ;)

- Thanks for pointing out the the port is on the Southeast. I looked at a map, and noticed that the office is between the port and the bridge that connects the island to the south shore. Is the commute easier from the south shore or the Western part of the island? How long would it take to get there from the Western part of the island via public transportation?

Again, depends where you live on south shore and west island. Both of these regions are pretty big in area. It takes me 45 minutes to get to downtown by public transportation, 15 min by car when traffic is ligth, anywhere from 25-50 minutes when things get heavy (I live 10 km from downtown).

South Shore is connected to the Mtl metro and there is a large parking lot right by metro station; West island has railroad service that drops you off in downtown which is 5 min walk to Old Port. If you want to drive to work, then south shore is at a disadvantage since the bridges connecting it to downtown are bottlenecks in the transportation grid. West island seems better imo.

- By "kid friendly", I mean a place that has some parks, open areas, good schools, an other families. We enjoy living in an urban environment, but not a "concrete jungle". For example, San Francisco is a great place, but the schools there do not have any grass on the playgrounds. They usually only have a small asphalt play area for the kids to use during recess. Other than Golden Gate park, the city doesn't have a whole lot of green space. Families are moving out if SF in droves, and the city is planning to close up to 18 schools this year. This makes SF, in my view, the opposite of "kid friendly", which is why we live in San Jose. Ideally, we want to live in or VERY close to an urban setting, but we also want that place to be conducive to raising our children.

In any city of 3.5 million, you will find kid-friendly neighbourhoods. Both south shore and west island are big with families with young ones. I don't think that Mtl is any better or worse than other large North American cities in this regard. (This propably does not help much but it is best I can do ;))

- How diverse is the West End of the city? I'm Filipino/American and my kids are bi-racial (wife is anglo-Canadian). The area we live in now is one of the diverse in the US, which we thoroughly enjoy. The neighborhood high school here reported that there were almost 40 languages spoken in the homes of its students.

The island as a whole

Consistently around the island the allophones (those who's mother tongue is neither English or French) stands between 25% and 30%. Francophones (mother tongue French) make up 54% of the island and anglophones (mother tongue English) make up 19%. Among the allophones, Italian is 6.3%, Spanish at 2.9%, Arabic at 2.6%, Chinese 1.7%, Greek 1.5%, Creole 1.5%, Portugese 1.2%, and Vietnamese 1.0%. As an interesting side note, Blacks make up only 5.7%. I know they are about 10% in the US with higher concentrations in the major cities. So I would guess there are four times less blacks here that back in the US. This is in reference to a previous post on my preceived lack of racism.

Breakdown by city sections

Not including the allophones, the percentages of anglophone and francophones are: 63.3%/36.7% on the west island, 27.4%/72.6% in the center, and 6.8%/93.2% on the east island. Regarding bilingualism the rate is 65.3% in the west, 56.4% in the center, and 44,5% in the east. For those who can speak only English, 25% of the west island can only speak English, 15.4% in the center, and 4.5% in the east. French breaks down 7.8% in the west, 25% in the center, and 47.3% in the east. So you can see that it generally does have the east/west division with a leaning toward French all over the island. Another side note, the anglophone/francophone division in Longueil on the south shore is 10%/90% to strength the point in the last post of how French become dominant off the island.

The exceptions

Hampsted and Westmont were grouped with the west island because they have the highest anglophone populations and lowest francophone populations. Notre-Dame-de-Grace (NDG) is almost equally balanced between the three groups and has an unusually high concentration of English only citizens. St-Laurent, Villeray, St-Michel, Parc-Extension, and St-Leonard have high allophone populations. I'll elaborate on that in the next paragraph. Although Ahuntsic and Cartierville are in the center, they have a very low anglophone population (5.8%). Although Ile-Bizard is west island, it has twice as many francophones than anglophones.

Where are the allophones?

It is well know that the Jewish have settled on the opposite side of the mountain from downtown in Outremont, Cote-St-Luc, Hampstead, and Montreal-Ouest. Also the Italians along with the Spanish are concentrated in the north east island: St-Leonard, Riviere-des-Prairies, Pointe-aux-Trembles, Montreal-Est, Montreal-Nord, Villeray, St-Michel, and Parc-Extension. Arabs are primarily north of the city in St-Laurent, Mont-Royal, Ahuntsic, Cartierville, Dollard-des-Ormeaux (DDO), and Roxboro. And the Chinese are concentrated in St-Laurent, Ville-Marie, Villeray, St-Michel, Parc-Extension, and the Plateau-Mont-Royal

Source: see below ;)

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I find blogs good source of info; this one is run by Chicagoan who married a Frenchwomen and moved to Quebec a couple of years ago. He's pretty informative and good read:

http://chicagomontreal.blogspot.com/

" If you want to drive to work, then south shore is at a disadvantage since the bridges connecting it to downtown are bottlenecks in the transportation grid. West island seems better imo."

I disagree Marek!

I live in St-Lambert and It usually takes me 30 minutes to get to work(I use the Champlain Bridge...it's faster than the Victoria).

My girlfriend lives in Lachine, and it takes me longer to get to the office in the mornings when i sleep over at her place. I can only imagine what it must be like if you live in Kirkland, Pierrefonds or Roxboro!?!?!

I recommend somewhere close to downtown where there's metro. Maybe you have a car, but your wife and kids maybe not.

Mr. Vadin

Sir,

First, excuse my bad English.

I am surprised and impressed by the fact that you had the idea to seek some advice on the Net about your déménagement!

Many accurate answers have been giving to your questions. I would add a few general and specific general comments, bearing in mind though that generalities are often false.

If you are to come to Montreal with your family for a number of years, and if you really want you and your family to experience the city and its society, I would recommend that you move on the island and in the city of Montréal, and not in the suburbs who just recently de-merger of Montréal, and most of all, not in the West Island, where speaking/learning French is uneasy and where anti-francophone préjugés are but to frequent.

If you could afford it, Outremont might be the best choice (for its location, for its parks, its cultural activities & diversity, for the choice of schooling nearby, for its weather – it is less humid than along the river, etc.). If I well remember, you stated that you lived in Germany; parts of Outremont remind me of the nice parts of Hamburg – without the channels though - where I stayed for almost a year on a 10 years period.

If you can not afford it, I would suggest some arrondissement/burroughs within the city limit where you would have access to public transportation but also find community & cultural activities suited for your family – including your wife and your kids! (I am thinking of NDG (Notre-Dame-de Grâce), Ville Saint-Laurent, Ahuntsic, etc.). Maybe, a most practical way would be to contact a few realtors, sending them your specifications with some of the comments you have received from members on this site (and from elsewhere if it is the case)! From experience, I know that there are some honest and competent agents, which could easily help you finding the location and the house you will enjoy and that will fill your aims.

Also, as I presume you are fluent in German, you could as well contact the Goethe Institut in Montreal (http://www.goethe.de/ins/ca/mon/enindex.htm)... Though I know that many german-speaking people live in the West-Island and integrated with the Anglophone culture (a decision that is not bad per se)!

Hoping those comments might be of help.

Bienvenue à Montréal, au Québec et au Canada… & Happy New 2006 Year... à vous et aux membres de votre famille !

Eric

P.S. : You mentioned being Filipino/American, so you were maybe born in the Philippines. If it is the case, the humidity of Montréal will not bother you! I have torrid memories of urban Manila at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. Luckily, its inhabitants are warm & wonderful – and nature OUTSIDE Manila is just stunning.

If you are to come to Montreal with your family for a number of years, and if you really want you and your family to experience the city and its society, I would recommend that you move on the island and in the city of Montréal, and not in the suburbs who just recently de-merger of Montréal, and most of all, not in the West Island, where speaking/learning French is uneasy and where anti-francophone préjugés are but to frequent.

You are contradicting yourself here. The suburbs are more francophone than the island of Mtl. So if the fella wants to immerse himself in Quebecois culture, I guess that is a place to start, especially if learing French is a prority. Another thing, you can not generalize that west island is this English fortress where French language is not welcome. Things changed a lot in this city for the better ... too bad the old divisions still persist.

Marek,

Thanks for your comment; I hope we will not mix up our friend with subtilities.

1. Yes, many suburbs are more francophone than many arrondissement/burroughs, but I was considering the fact that Mr. Vadin wanted as well to experience the city and access to good schools for his children.

2. As for the West Island, I agree with you and that is precisely why I stated at the very beginning of my note that «generalities are often false». Presenting the West Island as English fortress would be reductive of a much more complex reality.

Precisely I feel sad about the de-merger process of January 1st, including the celebrations organized by the City of Westmount. The late Claude Ryan (former chief of the Québec Liberal Party – I am adding that for Mr. Vadin) was telling me that he regretted the forced mergers of the Parti Québécois government; still, he recommended to premier Charest to backup from his de-merger promise. Mr. Ryan thought that the population and the government should go on with the process.

Cher Marek, Bonne Année 2006 ! … en espérant que tu ajouteras sur le site une autre belle photo pour fêter l’An nouveau !

^^ Thanks for clearing it up. Demergers had little to do with linguistic issues, but more in my opinion with wanting to retain power in their communities. By being under Mtl umbrella, citizens felt their voices would not be heard. Of course being wealthier than average they wanted to retain their perks ...

Bonne Annee a vous aussi; des belles photos c'est a malek que tu doit s'addresser.
J'ai quelques photos dans ma collection mais il me manque du temps pour les organiser ;)