^There are similarities though. Both are very heavy for their given passenger loads. Both aren't selling as well as could be hoped. Having said that, I don't think the A380 will follow the fate of the 717. The 717 was a heavy airplane in a very tight market with a half-dozen competitors from Airbus to Embraer to Tupolev. The A380 competes with only the 747-800 in half of its market, the other half it is uncontested. That's enough leeway to make it successful.

There are similarities though. Both are very heavy for their given passenger loads. Both aren't selling as well as could be hoped.
Really? I went to Boeing's website and added up the total orders the 747, any model, were received before EIS in January 1970. It was 178, with Pan Am the biggest order with 25. The A380 is pretty close to that, and though it is not the first "jumbo" jet to be built, it is still only the second, and the first by Airbus. So I think companies see the risk and are deciding to wait until EIS and perhaps even a couple more years to see how well it does in the market before other airlines place large orders. I think the expectations for sales were too high to begin with, and that is the main thing hurting the A380 program. :yes:

Having said that, I don't think the A380 will follow the fate of the 717. The 717 was a heavy airplane in a very tight market with a half-dozen competitors from Airbus to Embraer to Tupolev. The A380 competes with only the 747-800 in half of its market, the other half it is uncontested. That's enough leeway to make it successful.
If you are referring to cargo as the "other half" of the market, yes. The 747 was designed as a model freighter, and less so as a passenger aircraft. If it were not for Pan Am's request for such a design, the 747 would look much like the A340. Boeing will sell many 747-8Fs, but the passenger version will probably be a novelty. But that is okay because Boeing is planning an all-new jumbo jet, right? :cheers:

^No, I'm saying that because it has a monopoly on half its market, operators either have to buy the A380 or buy two smaller aircraft. So long as the A380 is utter garbage perfomance wise, which is certainly is not, then it will sell well in its niche.

And if you did your homework, you'd know that the 747-100 debuted during a huge downturn in the aviation industry. The A380 has come on the scene during what has been, aside from US carriers, the best airliner market in years. That the A380 hsa only equalled the performance of the 747-100, given it has had far better enviroment to sell in, is a problem.

Oh, and before you throw out the tired, old, cliched "A380 hater" BS, I give you a photo of my $US40 A380 1:200 model. The 757 and 767 are also 1:200 scale. The 757 can fit on one of the A380's wings.
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/2383/0726061305ie5.jpg

I truely believe it's a good plane. It just that it has two problems 1)It's damn heavy. 2) It might not be the right airplane for this time. The emphasis is on point to point flights, not the old hub and spoke system.

Really? I went to Boeing's website and added up the total orders the 747, any model, were received before EIS in January 1970. It was 178, with Pan Am the biggest order with 25. The A380 is pretty close to that, and though it is not the first "jumbo" jet to be built, it is still only the second, and the first by Airbus. So I think companies see the risk and are deciding to wait until EIS and perhaps even a couple more years to see how well it does in the market before other airlines place large orders. I think the expectations for sales were too high to begin with, and that is the main thing hurting the A380 program. :yes:


Yes, but in 1970, air traffic was many times smaller than now. 178 747's back then would be like 500 now.

I saw the commercial on TV yesterday.... Really really cool:) It's Lion Air (Indonesia). They buy 60 unit of Boeing 737-900ER:)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4606/lionhf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Why is this thread suddenly all dead?????????? It used to be one of the most active threads around...

LATEST: BBC reports that Emirates has cancelled its order for 20 A340-600 jets...

Emirates 'cancels order of A340s'

Airbus says it still has orders to supply A340s to Emirates
Dubai-based airline Emirates has cancelled an order for long-range Airbus A340-600 aircraft.
"We will not be taking delivery of these planes," Emirates spokesman Mike Simon told the Reuters news agency.

Emirates had ordered 12 of the four-engine planes and options for eight more in 2003 for delivery in May.

But an Airbus spokesman said it was not aware of any cancellation and its order book showed Emirates still earmarked to take delivery of 18 of the planes.

A380 problems

The move comes after the airline said earlier in October that it may cancel some of its order for 43 giant Airbus A380 planes if there are any further delays to the troubled project.

Emirates said at the time that it planned to "stick with the order for now", but that "cancellations" remained an option.

Its comments came after Airbus had said production setbacks would lead to a two-year delay in A380 deliveries.

The European planemaker has warned of "painful job losses" ahead as it shakes up the flagship superjumbo project. - BBC News

Qantas Orders Additional A380 Aircraft

On October 29, Qantas Airways announced that it had placed firm orders for eight more Airbus A380s, the world's largest passenger aircraft.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the order increased the airline's commitment to the A380 to 20 aircraft, to be delivered between August 2008 and 2015.
"We are convinced that these problems relate to industrialisation issues at Airbus and will be remedied, and in no way relate to the technical capacity of the A380.

"The A380 has breakthrough technology and everything we have seen reinforces our view that it is the best available aircraft for Qantas.

"It will provide unprecedented comfort and space, as well as meeting our payload and range requirements."

The package also includes an additional four A330-200 aircraft which will help Qantas mitigate capacity concerns associated with the delay of the airline's first A380s.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061107/france_airbus.html?.v=19
:banana: Way to go BOEING!
AP
FedEx Cancels Airbus Order to Buy Boeing
Tuesday November 7, 7:09 pm ET
By Laurence Frost, AP Business Writer
FedEx Cancels Its Order for 10 Airbus A380 Freighters, Orders 15 Boeing Planes Instead

PARIS (AP) -- FedEx Corp. canceled its order for 10 Airbus A380 freighters and ordered Boeing planes instead, dealing a new blow to the European aircraft maker whose flagship double-decker jet has been hit by costly delays.
The U.S.-based delivery company on Tuesday announced an order for 15 Boeing Co. 777 freighters worth US$3.5 billion at catalog prices, blaming the A380 holdups for its decision -- the first cancellation for the program, now two years behind schedule.

Shares of Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. dipped sharply to end 3.1 percent lower at euro20.66 (US$26.24) in Paris. Boeing's stock rose 3.9 percent to US$83.60 (euro65.82) in New York.

FedEx Chairman and CEO Frederick W. Smith said the switch to the 777 was a "necessary and prudent" move in the face of fast-growing global demand for air cargo and express delivery services.

"The availability and delivery timing of this aircraft, coupled with its attractive payload range and economics, make this choice the best decision for FedEx," Smith said. The company is scheduled to take delivery of all 15 Boeing jets in 2009-2011 and has options on an additional 15.

The A380 cancellations leave just 15 superjumbo freighter orders on the Airbus books -- from United Parcel Service Inc. and International Lease Finance Corp. -- and a further 142 orders for the plane's passenger version.

"Airbus regrets the decision made by FedEx," spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said, "but we understand their need to urgently address their capacity growth."

EADS, the parent company of Airbus that is scheduled to publish third-quarter results on Wednesday, is already facing a financial crunch as it struggles to line up funding for the mid-sized A350 jet program -- Airbus' belated answer to Boeing's twin-engined, fuel-efficient 787.

Airbus announced plans Monday to slash the number of suppliers it uses to 500 from the current 3,000, as part of a previously announced cost-cutting drive to generate euro2 billion (US$2.5 billion) in annual savings by 2010. Thousands of job cuts are also expected.

The Toulouse, France-based jetmaker shocked investors and customers in June by announcing a second six-month delay to the A380 program -- then doubled the holdup again in October. EADS warned that the overall two-year delay will wipe an estimated euro4.8 billion (US$6 billion) off profits over the next four years.

In response, Virgin Atlantic Airways deferred delivery of the first of its A380s until 2013 and Emirates, the program's biggest customer with 45 planes on order, announced it was sending an audit team to France to make sure Airbus was able to stick to the latest delivery schedule. But Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. increased its A380 order to 20 planes from 12.

Airbus has been negotiating confidential compensation deals with airlines as it fought -- successfully, until now -- to keep its A380 customers on board.

"I think they're running out of what they can give, and I think patience is running out on the customer side," said Chris Lozier, an analyst with U.S.-based Morningstar.

The boost to Boeing's stock has more to do with the A380's "dire straits" than with the 777 order, Lozier said.

The Boeing freighter -- launched in mid-2005 with an order from Air France -- carries a smaller payload than the A380. But FedEx said the switch would not adversely affect its operations.

"There are different capacities, but we believe that we have created advantages in more nonstop, point-to-point transoceanic routes that have shorter flight times but improved service offerings to FedEx customers," company spokesman Maury Lane said.

AP Business Writers Allison Linn in Seattle and Woody Baird in Memphis, Tennessee, contributed to this report.

http://www.fedex.com

http://www.airbus.com

http://www.boeing.com/

Boeing Co. led the Dow Jones industrials after the aerospace company received a $5.5 billion order for planes from Korean Air Lines Co.

Boeing advanced after the company scored one of its biggest orders this year with Korean Air buying 25 passenger and freighter aircraft. The stock rose $1.98, or 2.2 percent, to $91.10 as the deal was seen as a victory for Boeing over rival Airbus.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061121/wall_street.html?.v=26

:banana:Airbus in troubule!