I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate our venereal forumistas, namely Metrolink and TheFly for the superb way they handled themselves against much adversity on the JLA thread on the scouse forum.

They represented Manchester, especially MAN most admirably and stood tall in what was a case of (parody of the song) "Paranoics to the left of me, Victims to the right of me.....Stuck in the middle with...etc etc......."

Their opponents were left babbling on for some time after our Mancunian heroes had gracefully left the fray.

I had to laugh at the complaints that 'Manchester Airport had unfairly sought public funding to expand'.

This from our downriver cousins that have had their dockers hooks dug deeper into the peoples purse more than most for the past 30 years.

Irony personified....

Let's hear it for Metro and the Fly.....

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate our venereal forumistas, namely Metrolink and TheFly for the superb way they handled themselves against much adversity on the JLA thread on the scouse forum.

They represented Manchester, especially MAN most admirably and stood tall in what was a case of (parody of the song) "Paranoics to the left of me, Victims to the right of me.....Stuck in the middle with...etc etc......."

Their opponents were left babbling on for some time after our Mancunian heroes had gracefully left the fray.

I had to laugh at the complaints that 'Manchester Airport had unfairly sought public funding to expand'.

This from our downriver cousins that have had their dockers hooks dug deeper into the peoples purse more than most for the past 30 years.

Irony personified....

Let's hear it for Metro and the Fly.....

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

You speak some shite... Have you been reading some SHAKESPEARE!!!!!!!!


I thought i was crazy.. i think you need to go bed and get the doctor!!!!

The Goodies...Goody...Goody...Yum..Yum!!!!!

http://goodiesruleok.com



Now do the Funky Gibbon!!!!!!!!!!!!

You speak some shite... Have you been reading some SHAKESPEARE!!!!!!!!


I thought i was crazy.. i think you need to go bed and get the doctor!!!!

:sleepy:

The Goodies...Goody...Goody...Yum..Yum!!!!!

http://goodiesruleok.com



Now do the Funky Gibbon!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your concrete boots are ready dan.....

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate our venereal forumistas, namely Metrolink and TheFly for the superb way they handled themselves against much adversity on the JLA thread on the scouse forum.

They represented Manchester, especially MAN most admirably and stood tall in what was a case of (parody of the song) "Paranoics to the left of me, Victims to the right of me.....Stuck in the middle with...etc etc......."

Their opponents were left babbling on for some time after our Mancunian heroes had gracefully left the fray.

I had to laugh at the complaints that 'Manchester Airport had unfairly sought public funding to expand'.

This from our downriver cousins that have had their dockers hooks dug deeper into the peoples purse more than most for the past 30 years.

Irony personified....

Let's hear it for Metro and the Fly.....

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Agreed - Well done guys!. They also seem to forget the Port of Liverpool's exorbitant dues and levies it imposed on the cotton imports heading for Manchester and how we got around it by building the Manchester ship Canal.

I see that TheFly is going it alone now and being swarmed with no tag partner as Metro has left for a while.

It's time to get outta there Fly! Everything has been said that has to be said, the lines have been drawn.

I see a scouser has copied and pasted my post. :cool:

It's nice to see they are hanging on to my every word..... :cheers: :okay:

Agreed - Well done guys!. They also seem to forget the Port of Liverpool's exorbitant dues and levies it imposed on the cotton imports heading for Manchester and how we got around it by building the Manchester ship Canal.

This historical parallel is precisely why we Liverpudlians feel it necessary to have a large and thriving Liverpool Airport.

I'm sure Metrolink is a nice enough guy but like a number of the Mancunian forumers who venture onto the Liverpool forum, I doubt that he has our city's interests at heart. When Merseytram was cancelled, he saw fit to be the first to post this good news on the relevant thread and then, in case there was anyone who might not have heard, he started his own 'Merseytram died today' thread.

Schadenfreude or what?

At the end of the day, however much people like Metrolink try and present themselves as disinterested professionals, the bias always comes through.

Oh and it does on our side as well.

This historical parallel is precisely why we Liverpudlians feel it necessary to have a large and thriving Liverpool Airport.

I'm sure Metrolink is a nice enough guy but like a number of the Mancunian forumers who venture onto the Liverpool forum, I doubt that he has our city's interests at heart. When Merseytram was cancelled, he saw fit to be the first to post this good news on the relevant thread and then, in case there was anyone who might not have heard, he started his own 'Merseytram died today' thread.

Schadenfreude or what?

At the end of the day, however much people like Metrolink try and present themselves as disinterested professionals, the bias always comes through.

Oh and it does on our side as well.

True. I like Metrolink, it's always fun talking to him, but he's a bit too serious for use citizens of the city where everyone's a comedian. We need the likes of jrb to visit more often and SMP who I also now find hilarious.

Cheers folks. :cheers:

True. I like Metrolink, it's always fun talking to him, but he's a bit too serious for use citizens of the city where everyone's a comedian. We need the likes of jrb to visit more often and SMP who I also now find hilarious.

Cheers folks. :cheers:
I'd visit the pool forum more often Gareth but I always finish up upsetting two old muppets who take themselves far too seriously.
Plus the smooth-talking rabbitman who has a hard-on for me... ;)

You're not really much different to us lot after all's said and done.

And you've got a fine city to be proud of. :cheers:

Kind comments. It was tough going and work suffered but really they are just whining and trying to drag us down all the time. If they beleive Manchester is successful because of some kind of government subsidy they are deluded....

It is their loss and can only mean people will choose Manchester for investment every time over Liverpool... god knows where we are going to finish up!

When a building gets knocked down and replaced with something bigger within a 10 year time frame then we know things are getting serious..... land must be running out soon!

This historical parallel is precisely why we Liverpudlians feel it necessary to have a large and thriving Liverpool Airport.

I'm sure Metrolink is a nice enough guy but like a number of the Mancunian forumers who venture onto the Liverpool forum, I doubt that he has our city's interests at heart. When Merseytram was cancelled, he saw fit to be the first to post this good news on the relevant thread and then, in case there was anyone who might not have heard, he started his own 'Merseytram died today' thread.

Schadenfreude or what?

At the end of the day, however much people like Metrolink try and present themselves as disinterested professionals, the bias always comes through.

Oh and it does on our side as well.
Metrolink may not be Liverpools biggest fan, but I'm sure he would be the last person to be pleased about Merseytram being cancelled.

From Accura:
Metrolink may not be Liverpools biggest fan, but I'm sure he would be the last person to be pleased about Merseytram being cancelled.

He was also the last person to be pleased when the Leeds supertram project bit the dust. People misread him, I guess. He just has a passion for, well, trams and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kind comments. It was tough going and work suffered but really they are just whining and trying to drag us down all the time. If they beleive Manchester is successful because of some kind of government subsidy they are deluded....



Now don't be dishonest and misrepresent some of the many good arguments put in favour of Liverpool Airport. Have you forgotten that this was a Liverpool thread that you decided to go on to?

What inflamed you and Metrolink initially was one of our forummers posting some statistics showing Liverpool gaining North West market share at the expense of Manchester - a situation that has been going on now for the best part of a decade.

Transport is riddled with subsidies so it is very difficult to say that one airport has received more in the way of subsidy than another and I wouldn't bother to argue that way. What the Liverpool forummers are concerned about is the situation arising where growth at our airport is hampered by inadequate infrastructure because planning bodies have determined that all transport spending has to be targeted at Manchester.

That is not dragging Manchester Airport down - just defending the right of Liverpool to grow its own airport as any other major city.

I've not read the thread in question - but that idea that Liverpool is holding back Manchester seems a bit misplaced.
The growth in budget air travel is a seperate beast and doesn't impact on more established airports like MAN or LHR. As with stansted, people see a cheap flight and drag themselves off for a second holiday to somewhere inexpensive. It also gives the less well off the opportunity to travel abroad for the first time.
They have created a new market rather than gone after an established one.
Although MAN has some budget it's not really the focus. There is far more business, charter and mid/long haul travel .
The two compliment each other well, but as they are focused on different things the impact of Liverpool on MAN is small.

I've not read the thread in question - but that idea that Liverpool is holding back Manchester seems a bit misplaced.
The growth in budget air travel is a seperate beast and doesn't impact on more established airports like MAN or LHR. As with stansted, people see a cheap flight and drag themselves off for a second holiday to somewhere inexpensive. It also gives the less well off the opportunity to travel abroad for the first time.
They have created a new market rather than gone after an established one.
Although MAN has some budget it's not really the focus. There is far more business, charter and mid/long haul travel .
The two compliment each other well, but as they are focused on different things the impact of Liverpool on MAN is small.

The fact that British Airways has withdrawn many routes from Manchester does tend to go against this argument. That is not necessarily saying that people have gone to Liverpool instead, they may have used a Manchester LCC, but certainly low cost carriers have affected the market and they started, in the North West at least, from Liverpool.

It is a myth that only sun-worshipers and back-packers use low cost airlines. Liverpool now has flights to ten capital cities.

Whilst there has undoubtably been some generated traffic as a result of LCCs, the point I made that Manchester has lost market share is unarguable. Only ten years ago, Liverpool had about one thirtieth of the passenger throughput at Manchester, now it is around a fifth and, as Liverpool is growing considerably faster than Manchester, that proportion will decrease further.

You have to face the fact that another major airport is emerging in the North West. Manchester does not have a god-given right to every air passenger anymore than Liverpool Seaport has a right to all the international freight traffic.

The fact that British Airways has withdrawn many routes from Manchester does tend to go against this argument. That is not necessarily saying that people have gone to Liverpool instead, they may have used a Manchester LCC, but certainly low cost carriers have affected the market and they started, in the North West at least, from Liverpool.

It is a myth that only sun-worshipers and back-packers use low cost airlines. Liverpool now has flights to ten capital cities.

Whilst there has undoubtably been some generated traffic as a result of LCCs, the point I made that Manchester has lost market share is unarguable. Only ten years ago, Liverpool had about one thirtieth of the passenger throughput at Manchester, now it is around a fifth and, as Liverpool is growing considerably faster than Manchester, that proportion will decrease further.

You have to face the fact that another major airport is emerging in the North West. Manchester does not have a god-given right to every air passenger anymore than Liverpool Seaport has a right to all the international freight traffic.
Proportional growth comparisons should only be being made where relative markets can also be compared relatively. As both airports basically share a market, an absolute comparison is the only fair one as both airports' markets are growing at the same speed. In absolute terms MAN is one of the fastest growing airports in the UK and is leaving JLA and LBA for dead.

Sorry,Maverick, given your premise how did you reach the conclusion contained in the last sentence?

Sorry,Maverick, given your premise how did you reach the conclusion contained in the last sentence?
Quite simple. MAN's passenger figures have increased by a larger amount than both JLA and LBA. MAN added over 1 million passengers in the last 12 months alone and it's growth over the last 5 years or so is about the same as JLA's entire current throughput.

Sorry for not making mself clear. It was the bit about 'leaving JLA and LBA for dead.' that puzzled me. Being from a city with three airports that have a 20m+ throughput, I'm still impressed by the rate of growth at JLA. From just over 400,000 to almost 5 million in round about 6 years suggests that rather than being left for dead it is giving Lazarus a run for his money!

Sorry for not making mself clear. It was the bit about 'leaving JLA and LBA for dead.' that puzzled me. Being from a city with three airports that have a 20m+ throughput, I'm still impressed by the rate of growth at JLA. From just over 400,000 to almost 5 million in round about 6 years suggests that rather than being left for dead it is giving Lazarus a run for his money!
Not really. MAN has added JLA's entire capacity in a space of time a little over 4 years. At the end of the day, to be doing well in a market you should be growing by a larger amount than the competition. JLA, whilst growing faster than LBA, is growing slower than MAN. The only reason JLA appears to be doing well is because it's starting from a much lower base. That baseline is an irrelevant statistic in this situation really.

From Maverick:
The only reason JLA appears to be doing well is because it's starting from a much lower base. That baseline is an irrelevant statistic in this situation really.

Why is that baseline an irrelevant point of comparison? On what basis are you making the decision that some statistics are relevant whilst others are not?

Why is that baseline an irrelevant point of comparison? On what basis are you making the decision that some statistics are relevant whilst others are not?
Because when you are comparing growth within the same market, the original baseline is meaningless. What should be compared in this situation is the percentages of the market growth captured by each entity. The baseline is useful for some comparisons, but not for this one.

The same is happening to Blackpool. At the moment, its pretty small, but its estimated growth over the next few years will put it in the same position as LJLA. That will only go so far though.

The fact that British Airways has withdrawn many routes from Manchester does tend to go against this argument.

BA's routes restructuring is quite complex but it doesn't have anything to do with Liverpool airport, which doesn't have any effect on it's buisness. At the end of the day liverpool was the main NW hub for LCC. Although since Manchester airport landing fees a lot of LCC are now going for Manchester.

BA's routes restructuring is quite complex but it doesn't have anything to do with Liverpool airport, which doesn't have any effect on it's buisness. At the end of the day liverpool was the main NW hub for LCC. Although since Manchester airport landing fees a lot of LCC are now going for Manchester.

Please read what I wrote skit:

The fact that British Airways has withdrawn many routes from Manchester does tend to go against this argument. That is not necessarily saying that people have gone to Liverpool instead, they may have used a Manchester LCC, but certainly low cost carriers have affected the market and they started, in the North West at least, from Liverpool.

So, my point was that the low cost carriers have undermined the British Airways services and that this type of service was introduced to the North West by Liverpool Airport.

You make the claim that low cost services from Liverpool Airport have not affected British Airways services from Manchester. That is clearly nonsense. Up until the introduction of LCCs from Liverpool, anyone wanting to travel abroad from anywhere in Liverpool Airport's catchment area would have to travel to Manchester Airport. They would then pay money to British Airways to fly to a continental destination.

With the arrival of the extensive route networks of EasyJet and Ryanair, they no longer have to travel to Manchester and can fly from their local airport. Consequently British Airways receipts are reduced and so is the profitability of their service.

Of course, some traffic will be generated by the new service and some passengers will stick with British Airways for interlining purposes or the love of airline food but most will not.

It always amuses me how the decision by Manchester Airport to reduce its landing fees is presented as a shrewd business move. Do you honestly believe that Manchester wanted to do that? Don't airports make money by charging landing fees? Manchester was forced to do that to attract LCCs and though obviously the LCC market at Liverpool will be adversely affected to a certain extent, the ones really affected are the high cost carriers operating from Manchester.

By forcing Manchester to reduce its landing fees, Liverpool has done a lot to level the playing field between our two airports.

Not really. MAN has added JLA's entire capacity in a space of time a little over 4 years. At the end of the day, to be doing well in a market you should be growing by a larger amount than the competition. JLA, whilst growing faster than LBA, is growing slower than MAN. The only reason JLA appears to be doing well is because it's starting from a much lower base. That baseline is an irrelevant statistic in this situation really.

Maverick,

Airport growth is always measured in terms of the previous year's throughput and Liverpool experienced a growth of 20% in the past year as against Manchester's 5%. (Approx.) Therefore, Liverpool grew faster than Manchester and your above statement is wrong.

Of course, growth from a lower base is easier and I would not expect the present growth rate to continue indefinitely but, if the present levels of growth were to be sustained, Liverpool would overtake Manchester within a number of years. That is just mathematics.

In the real world though, what we are interested in is what the industry professionals call 'clawback' .(Remember your Priscilla QOTD? She / he got really turned on when I mentioned that - but I digress).

Basically, we want a situation where people who live within Liverpool Airport's catchment area (defined in this case as the area in which Liverpool Airport is the nearest available airport) can fly from that airport to most popular destinations. In other words, we are 'clawing back' from Manchester those passengers who live in Liverpool's catchment area and also those travelling into our catchment area.

The reason we want to do that is simple. We want the economic benefits that air transport brings and believe that we have a very good airport that should be used to its maximum potential.

It is not Manchester bashing but it is well nigh impossible to convince Manchester forummers of that.

Just think what would have happened if most of the contestants and spectators for the 2002 Commonwealth Games had needed to get to Manchester via Liverpool Airport. They would be spending money in Liverpool, booking into Liverpool hotels and contributing to the profits of the airport without Liverpool having done anything to facilitate the games.

I think you lot would have protested about that. Shame you can't see our point of view.

Maverick,

Airport growth is always measured in terms of the previous year's throughput and Liverpool experienced a growth of 20% in the past year as against Manchester's 5%. (Approx.) Therefore, Liverpool grew faster than Manchester and your above statement is wrong.

Of course, growth from a lower base is easier and I would not expect the present growth rate to continue indefinitely but, if the present levels of growth were to be sustained, Liverpool would overtake Manchester within a number of years. That is just mathematics.

In the real world though, what we are interested in is what the industry professionals call 'clawback' .(Remember your Priscilla QOTD? She / he got really turned on when I mentioned that - but I digress).

Basically, we want a situation where people who live within Liverpool Airport's catchment area (defined in this case as the area in which Liverpool Airport is the nearest available airport) can fly from that airport to most popular destinations. In other words, we are 'clawing back' from Manchester those passengers who live in Liverpool's catchment area and also those travelling into our catchment area.

The reason we want to do that is simple. We want the economic benefits that air transport brings and believe that we have a very good airport that should be used to its maximum potential.

It is not Manchester bashing but it is well nigh impossible to convince Manchester forummers of that.

Just think what would have happened if most of the contestants and spectators for the 2002 Commonwealth Games had needed to get to Manchester via Liverpool Airport. They would be spending money in Liverpool, booking into Liverpool hotels and contributing to the profits of the airport without Liverpool having done anything to facilitate the games.

I think you lot would have protested about that. Shame you can't see our point of view.
Unfortunately you aren't "clawing" them back. Manchester's previous base are remaining with the airport. The growth at JLA has been mainly sustained by new services. Manchester, however, is still growing faster in this area too.

As for your claims about airports always being measured in relative terms, this is quite true. The CAA statistics, however, are meant for a comparison of an airport to it's own previous growth, which can be done on a relative or absolute basis. Comparison of two different airports, however, should never be made using relative figures, unless they serve different markets.

From Maverick: Unfortunately you aren't "clawing" them back. Manchester's previous base are remaining with the airport. The growth at JLA has been mainly sustained by new services. Manchester, however, is still growing faster in this area too.

Like Metrolink and The Fly before you, I don't think you have adequately answered the wider arguments advanced in Martin's recent posts. Still, at least you have moved on from analogies about one airport leaving another for dead!

From Accura: The same is happening to Blackpool. At the moment, its pretty small, but its estimated growth over the next few years will put it in the same position as LJLA. That will only go so far though.

Thanks, Accura. It would be interesting to read something about Blackpool's estimated growth over the next few years. Do you know about Ryanair's long term plans for the airport? Any other jet based carriers lined up to provide scheduled services?

Like Metrolink and The Fly before you, I don't think you have adequately answered the wider arguments advanced in Martin's recent posts. Still, at least you have moved on from analogies about one airport leaving another for dead!
I've perfectly adequately answered all valid points. How? Because there are no valid points due to the fact that the single pillar of his whole argument, that JLA is growing faster, is inaccurate. I'm not going to continue to argue about this as it's obvious we all have different points of view on the relative merits of certain statistics. Suffice to say that the gap between MAN and JLA is larger today than at any other point in history. This is undeniable.

Now to move on to a more interesting point. All airports eventually reach a growth bottleneck and have to invest a huge sum of money in facilities, be it a new terminal or runway. When this happens, said airport has to raise it's landing fees. With MAN cutting fees and charging headlong into JLA's LCC base, how can JLA hope to expand without severely impacting it's growth?

If JLA is growing so fast and as some seem to think that MAN is slowing down, given present passenger figures annualy, how long do our Lpl friends think it will take for JLA to reach anything like the numbers MAN is handling now? Bear in mind that JLA seems to be relying on one or two main airlines for its business, little flights to Europe/Ireland etc. How long before American Airlines announce non stop flights to Chicago or New York from JLA? How long before BA announce flights to New York from JLA? Given that JLA is growing so fast and Im no expert on these things can someone enlighten me? I think present numbers are along the lines of this JLA:3m+ MAN: 21m+ per year..could someone from Liverpool please let me know how long it will take JLA to catch up to those sort of figures and will MAN be stood still while JLA plays catch up...as I say Im no expert on these things, hopefully someone from Lpl can enlighten me

From Maverick
I've perfectly adequately answered all valid points. How? Because there are no valid points due to the fact that the single pillar of his whole argument, that JLA is growing faster, is inaccurate. I'm not going to continue to argue about this as it's obvious we all have different points of view on the relative merits of certain statistics. Suffice to say that the gap between MAN and JLA is larger today than at any other point in history. This is undeniable

Thanks, Maverick. Very helpful. Talking at somebody, wilfully disregarding contradictory statistics and coughing up platitudes along with inaccuracies (e.g. penultimate sentence) really moves the debate forward. I always love it when someone states 'I'm not going to continue to argue about this as it's obvious we all have different points of view on the relative merits of certain statistics.' There's always a 'Suffice it to say ... ' followed by an attemp at a coup de grace! Yeah, right ... ouch!

From Rolybling

If JLA is growing so fast and as some seem to think that MAN is slowing down, given present passenger figures annualy, how long do our Lpl friends think it will take for JLA to reach anything like the numbers MAN is handling now? Bear in mind that JLA seems to be relying on one or two main airlines for its business, little flights to Europe/Ireland etc. How long before American Airlines announce non stop flights to Chicago or New York from JLA? How long before BA announce flights to New York from JLA? Given that JLA is growing so fast and Im no expert on these things can someone enlighten me? I think present numbers are along the lines of this JLA:3m+ MAN: 21m+ per year..could someone from Liverpool please let me know how long it will take JLA to catch up to those sort of figures and will MAN be stood still while JLA plays catch up...as I say Im no expert on these things, hopefully someone from Lpl can enlighten me

Can't really answer this because I'm not sufficiently well informed about JLA. I think its passenger throughput is closer to 5m than 3m and negotiations are ongoing re a link to NYC. Sorry not to be more helpful because I know you are genuinely iterested in finding out.

I've perfectly adequately answered all valid points. How? Because there are no valid points due to the fact that the single pillar of his whole argument, that JLA is growing faster, is inaccurate. I'm not going to continue to argue about this as it's obvious we all have different points of view on the relative merits of certain statistics. Suffice to say that the gap between MAN and JLA is larger today than at any other point in history. This is undeniable.

Now to move on to a more interesting point. All airports eventually reach a growth bottleneck and have to invest a huge sum of money in facilities, be it a new terminal or runway. When this happens, said airport has to raise it's landing fees. With MAN cutting fees and charging headlong into JLA's LCC base, how can JLA hope to expand without severely impacting it's growth?

Earlybird.

Well just to give them an idea of how far they have to go yet :)

Terminal 1


Aegean Airlines (Athens)
Aer Arann (Galway, Kerry, Waterford)
Air Canada (Toronto)
Aer Lingus (Dublin)
Air Atlanta Europe (Dalaman, Larnaca, Las Vegas, Orlando Sanford, Paphos, Puerto Plata)
Air Baltic (Riga)
Air Berlin (Berlin Tegel, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Paderborn, London Stansted)
Air Scandic (Alicante, Cape Town, Corfu, Dalaman, Durban, Faro, Heraklion, Kefalonia, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Malaga, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Palma de Mallorca, Preveza, Rhodes, Tenerife, Thessalonika)
Air Transat (Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver)
Aurigny Air Services (Guernsey)
Austrian Airlines (Innsbruck)
Balkan Holiday (Burgas, Sofia, Varna)
Blue1 (Helsinki)
bmi - International (Alicante, Antigua, Barbados, Bridgetown, Burgas, Chicago O'Hare, Corfu, Faro, Grenoble, Heraklion, Las Vegas, Malaga, Mitilini, Paphos, Preveza, St. Lucia, Tenerife, Toronto, Toulouse, Washington Dulles)
bmibaby (Alicante, Belfast International, Cork, Jersey, Knock, Malaga, Murcia, Palma de Mallorca, Prague)
Braathens (Oslo)
City Airline (Gothenburg, Helsinki)
Cyprus Airways (Larnaca, Paphos)
Emirates (Dubai)
European Air Charter (Alicante, Almeria, Dalaman, Dubrovnik, Faro, Figari, Heraklion, Jerez, Kefalonia, Khania, Lanzarote, Lourdes, Mahon, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Preveza, Pula, Rhodes, Santorini, Skiathos, Tenerife, Venice, Volos, Zakynthos)
Fly Air (Dalaman)
Flybe (Belfast City(starts Jan 2006) Chambery, Southampton)
Flyjet (Corfu, Heraklion, Hurghada, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Malaga, Paphos, Tenerife)
Futura International (Heraklion, Mahon, Tenerife)
Hapag Lloyd Express (Cologne, Stuttgart)
Helios Airways (Paphos)
Hellas Jet (Athens)
Icelandair (Keflavik)
Jet2.com (Budapest, Edinburgh, Faro, Geneva, London Gatwick, Malaga, Murcia, Nice, Pisa, Valencia, Venice)
Kıbrıs Türk Hava Yolları (Dalaman)
LOT Polish Airlines (Warsaw)
Lufthansa (Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich)
Luxair (Dublin, Luxembourg)
Monarch Airlines (Alicante, Barcelona, Bodrum, Bridgetown, Catania, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Gibraltar, Goa, Grenoble, Holguin, Ibiza, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Luxor, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Reus, Rhodes, Tenerife, Varadero, Venice, Zakynthos)
MyTravel Airways (Agadir, Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bridgetown, Bergamo, Bodrum, Burgas, Calgary, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Goa, Heraklion, Ibiza, Kalamata, Kefalonia, Kos, La Romana, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Las Vegas, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Malta, Mitilini, Monastir, Montego Bay, Murcia, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Puerto Plata, Pula, Reus, Rhodes, Rimini, Salzburg, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toronto, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Zakynthos)
Nouvelair Tunisia (Monastir)
Olympic Airlines (Athens)
Portugália (Lisbon)
Ryanair (Dublin, Shannon)
Saga (Istanbul)
Scandinavian Airlines System (Copenhagen, Stockholm)
SkyEurope (Bratislava)
Skyservice (Toronto)
Skyways (Stockholm)
Spanair (Lanzarote, Mahon, Palma de Mallorca)
Swiss International Airlines (Basle, Zurich)
Thomas Cook Airlines (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bridgetown, Bodrum, Burgas, Calgary, Cancun, Catania, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Gerona, Heraklion, Holguin, Ibiza, Innsbruck, Izmir, Jardines del Ray, Jerez, Kefalonia, Kos, Las Palma, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Lyon, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Monastir, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Salzburg, Samos, Santorini, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Skiathos, Sofia, Thessalonika, Toronto, Toulouse, Turin, Zakynthos)
Turkish Airlines (Istanbul)



Terminal 2


Adria Airways (Ljubljana)
Air France (Paris Charles de Gaulle)
Air Malta (Malta)
Alitalia (Milan Malpensa)
Astraeus (Agadir, Banjul, Bergamo, Bodrum, Brescia, Bucharest, Calvi, Catania, Chambery, Corfu, Dalaman, Dubrovnik, Innsbruck, Kavalla, Kefalonia, Malta, Mitilini, Murcia, Olbia, Preveza, Rhodes, Salzburg, Samos, Skiathos, Taba, Varna, Venice, Zakynthos)
Azzurra Air (Athens, Corfu, Faro, Fuerteventura, Kalamata, Kavalla, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Mikonos, Zakynthos)
Britannia Airways (Alicante, Almeria, Bodrum, Bridgetown, Burgas, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Heraklion, Ibiza, Kavalla, Kefalonia, Keflavik, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Luxor, Lyon, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Malta, Monastir, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Pisa, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Salzburg, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Sofia, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toulouse, Turin, Varna, Venice, Verona, Zakynthos)
BWIA West Indies Airways (Bridgetown, Port of Spain)
Continental Airlines (Newark)
Croatia Airlines (Dubrovnik, Pula, Split)
CSA Czech Airlines (Prague)
Delta Air Lines (Atlanta)
Eurocypria Airlines (Larnaca, Paphos)
Excel Airways (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Athens, Barcelona, Bodrum, Brescia, Bridgetown, Cagliari, Calgary, Chambery, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Goa, Kalamata, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Lisbon, Lourdes, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Mikonos, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Porlamar, Preveza, Rhodes, Rome Ciampino, Salzburg, Samos, Santorini, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Skiathos, Split, Taba, Tel Aviv, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Verona, Zakynthos)
First Choice (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bodrum, Burgas, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Grenoble, Heraklion, Ibiza, Innsbruck, Kefalonia, Khania, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Mitilini, Monastir, Montego Bay, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Ovda, Palma de Mallorca, Porlamar, Preveza, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Skiathos, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toulouse, Turin, Varna, Venice, Verona, Zakynthos)
Freebird (Bodrum)
Icelandair (Keflavik)
Inter Airlines (Antalya)
InterSky (Berne)
KLM (Amsterdam)
LTE International Airways (Palma de Mallorca, Tenerife)
Maersk Air (Copenhagen)
Malaysia Airlines (Kuala Lumpur)
Onur Air (Bodrum, Dalaman, Istanbul)
Pakistan International Airlines (Chicago O'Hare, Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, New York JFK, Houston/Intercontinental, Toronto)
Pegasus Airlines (Dalaman)
Qatar Airways (Doha)
Singapore Airlines (Zurich, Singapore)
Syrian Air (Damascus)
Transaero (Moscow)
US Airways (Philadelphia)
Viking Airlines (Athens)
Virgin Atlantic Airways (Bridgetown (starting 13 November 2006), Orlando, St Lucia (starts 16 November 2006))
Zoom Airlines (Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary)




Terminal 3


Air Southwest (Bristol, Plymouth)
American Airlines (Boston, Chicago O'Hare, Miami)
bmi - domestic (Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, London Heathrow, Norwich)
British Airways (Alicante, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin Tegel, Billund, Bologna, Brussels, Cagliari, Copenhagen, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Geneva, Hanover, Innsbruck, Lyon, Madrid, Milan Malpensa, Murcia, New York Kennedy, Nice, Oslo, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Pisa, Rome Fiumicino, Stuttgart, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Verona, Vienna, Zurich)
British Airways CitiExpress (Aberdeen, Belfast City, Cork, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Isle of Man, Jersey, Knock, London Gatwick, London Heathrow, Shannon, Southampton)
Eastern Airways (Inverness, London Stansted, Norwich)
Finnair (Helsinki)
Loganair for British Airways (Derry)
Qantas(Codeshare operation)
SN Brussels Airlines (Brussels
VLM (London City)



Cargo Airlines

Air Hong Kong
Cargolux
China Airlines Cargo
Dragonair
Federal Express
MAS Kargo

Maverick makes sense. Ringway over the last 5 years has grown more than Liverpool, mainly before Manchester's lo-co effect can be considered.

Like Stansted before, the good years (catching MAN) are as behind LJL as Fergie's Utd seem to be!

Earlybird.

Did I guess this first (last week)? Please let it be so, I'd be rather proud of it - although I should probably get out more.

I've had a look through the thread on the Liverpool forum, and it seems to me as if people are talking at cross purposes. The original post that caused the controversy was saying that because of Liverpool's growth MAN would soon loose most of it's custom and shut down. This totally rediculous premise then seemed to start an argument.
Manchester forumers are saying that Liverpool won't ever become as big as MAN.
Liverpool forumers are saying that they want an airport as big as MAN. Nothing wrong with either statement - but somehow this has turned into an arguement.

The premise that Liverpool is taking large numbers of passengers from MAN I think is wrong. Liverpool does very well in it's sector - but Ryanair and Easyjet would never have chosen MAN as a base, so Liverpool or no Liverpool - MAN wouldn't have these airlines.
If Easyjet and Ryanair were taking passengers from other airlines then MAN, LHR etc would be seeing fewer passenegers - but they aren't.
It's obvious that people from Merseyside are going to use Liverpool if it offers the route they were going to travel, but most of the time it doesn't. You can't connect from Liverpool to hub airports to go long haul - there are no direct long haul or transatlantic flights. The only routes where Liverpool is in competition with MAN are routes to Ireland, Classic Beach destinations and the odd city(Paris Warsaw and Milan)
Now look at the massive number of routes from MAN and as a percentage it's quite low. Also given the factor that MAN now has it's own low cost routes the impact of people in Manchester using Liverpool is reduced.

The BA arguement also seems off the mark. The routes were generally withdrawn because of competition from other airlines at Manchester. We still have two airlines flying to CDG, despite Liverpool. New routes to Rome, Krakow etc have been opened even though Liverpool fly those routes. If Liverpool was taking all the demand these would not be viable. Airlines aren't stupid, they do thier research.
I'm not bashing Liverpool airport here at all - I'm pleased it's doing well. But it's still light years behind MAN .

Well just to give them an idea of how far they have to go yet :)

Terminal 1


Aegean Airlines (Athens)
Aer Arann (Galway, Kerry, Waterford)
Air Canada (Toronto)
Aer Lingus (Dublin)
Air Atlanta Europe (Dalaman, Larnaca, Las Vegas, Orlando Sanford, Paphos, Puerto Plata)
Air Baltic (Riga)
Air Berlin (Berlin Tegel, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Paderborn, London Stansted)
Air Scandic (Alicante, Cape Town, Corfu, Dalaman, Durban, Faro, Heraklion, Kefalonia, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Malaga, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Palma de Mallorca, Preveza, Rhodes, Tenerife, Thessalonika)
Air Transat (Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver)
Aurigny Air Services (Guernsey)
Austrian Airlines (Innsbruck)
Balkan Holiday (Burgas, Sofia, Varna)
Blue1 (Helsinki)
bmi - International (Alicante, Antigua, Barbados, Bridgetown, Burgas, Chicago O'Hare, Corfu, Faro, Grenoble, Heraklion, Las Vegas, Malaga, Mitilini, Paphos, Preveza, St. Lucia, Tenerife, Toronto, Toulouse, Washington Dulles)
bmibaby (Alicante, Belfast International, Cork, Jersey, Knock, Malaga, Murcia, Palma de Mallorca, Prague)
Braathens (Oslo)
City Airline (Gothenburg, Helsinki)
Cyprus Airways (Larnaca, Paphos)
Emirates (Dubai)
European Air Charter (Alicante, Almeria, Dalaman, Dubrovnik, Faro, Figari, Heraklion, Jerez, Kefalonia, Khania, Lanzarote, Lourdes, Mahon, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Preveza, Pula, Rhodes, Santorini, Skiathos, Tenerife, Venice, Volos, Zakynthos)
Fly Air (Dalaman)
Flybe (Belfast City(starts Jan 2006) Chambery, Southampton)
Flyjet (Corfu, Heraklion, Hurghada, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Malaga, Paphos, Tenerife)
Futura International (Heraklion, Mahon, Tenerife)
Hapag Lloyd Express (Cologne, Stuttgart)
Helios Airways (Paphos)
Hellas Jet (Athens)
Icelandair (Keflavik)
Jet2.com (Budapest, Edinburgh, Faro, Geneva, London Gatwick, Malaga, Murcia, Nice, Pisa, Valencia, Venice)
Kıbrıs Türk Hava Yolları (Dalaman)
LOT Polish Airlines (Warsaw)
Lufthansa (Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich)
Luxair (Dublin, Luxembourg)
Monarch Airlines (Alicante, Barcelona, Bodrum, Bridgetown, Catania, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Gibraltar, Goa, Grenoble, Holguin, Ibiza, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Luxor, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Reus, Rhodes, Tenerife, Varadero, Venice, Zakynthos)
MyTravel Airways (Agadir, Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bridgetown, Bergamo, Bodrum, Burgas, Calgary, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Goa, Heraklion, Ibiza, Kalamata, Kefalonia, Kos, La Romana, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Las Vegas, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Malta, Mitilini, Monastir, Montego Bay, Murcia, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Puerto Plata, Pula, Reus, Rhodes, Rimini, Salzburg, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toronto, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Zakynthos)
Nouvelair Tunisia (Monastir)
Olympic Airlines (Athens)
Portugália (Lisbon)
Ryanair (Dublin, Shannon)
Saga (Istanbul)
Scandinavian Airlines System (Copenhagen, Stockholm)
SkyEurope (Bratislava)
Skyservice (Toronto)
Skyways (Stockholm)
Spanair (Lanzarote, Mahon, Palma de Mallorca)
Swiss International Airlines (Basle, Zurich)
Thomas Cook Airlines (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bridgetown, Bodrum, Burgas, Calgary, Cancun, Catania, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Gerona, Heraklion, Holguin, Ibiza, Innsbruck, Izmir, Jardines del Ray, Jerez, Kefalonia, Kos, Las Palma, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Lyon, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Monastir, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Salzburg, Samos, Santorini, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Skiathos, Sofia, Thessalonika, Toronto, Toulouse, Turin, Zakynthos)
Turkish Airlines (Istanbul)



Terminal 2


Adria Airways (Ljubljana)
Air France (Paris Charles de Gaulle)
Air Malta (Malta)
Alitalia (Milan Malpensa)
Astraeus (Agadir, Banjul, Bergamo, Bodrum, Brescia, Bucharest, Calvi, Catania, Chambery, Corfu, Dalaman, Dubrovnik, Innsbruck, Kavalla, Kefalonia, Malta, Mitilini, Murcia, Olbia, Preveza, Rhodes, Salzburg, Samos, Skiathos, Taba, Varna, Venice, Zakynthos)
Azzurra Air (Athens, Corfu, Faro, Fuerteventura, Kalamata, Kavalla, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Mikonos, Zakynthos)
Britannia Airways (Alicante, Almeria, Bodrum, Bridgetown, Burgas, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Heraklion, Ibiza, Kavalla, Kefalonia, Keflavik, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Luxor, Lyon, Mahon, Malaga, Male, Malta, Monastir, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Pisa, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Salzburg, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Sofia, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toulouse, Turin, Varna, Venice, Verona, Zakynthos)
BWIA West Indies Airways (Bridgetown, Port of Spain)
Continental Airlines (Newark)
Croatia Airlines (Dubrovnik, Pula, Split)
CSA Czech Airlines (Prague)
Delta Air Lines (Atlanta)
Eurocypria Airlines (Larnaca, Paphos)
Excel Airways (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Athens, Barcelona, Bodrum, Brescia, Bridgetown, Cagliari, Calgary, Chambery, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Goa, Kalamata, Khania, Kos, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Las Palmas, Lisbon, Lourdes, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Mikonos, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Porlamar, Preveza, Rhodes, Rome Ciampino, Salzburg, Samos, Santorini, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Skiathos, Split, Taba, Tel Aviv, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Verona, Zakynthos)
First Choice (Alicante, Almeria, Antalya, Banjul, Bodrum, Burgas, Cancun, Corfu, Dalaman, Faro, Fuerteventura, Funchal, Geneva, Gerona, Grenoble, Heraklion, Ibiza, Innsbruck, Kefalonia, Khania, Lanzarote, Las Palmas, Mahon, Malaga, Malta, Mitilini, Monastir, Montego Bay, Naples, Orlando Sanford, Ovda, Palma de Mallorca, Porlamar, Preveza, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Reus, Rhodes, Skiathos, Tenerife, Thessalonika, Toulouse, Turin, Varna, Venice, Verona, Zakynthos)
Freebird (Bodrum)
Icelandair (Keflavik)
Inter Airlines (Antalya)
InterSky (Berne)
KLM (Amsterdam)
LTE International Airways (Palma de Mallorca, Tenerife)
Maersk Air (Copenhagen)
Malaysia Airlines (Kuala Lumpur)
Onur Air (Bodrum, Dalaman, Istanbul)
Pakistan International Airlines (Chicago O'Hare, Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, New York JFK, Houston/Intercontinental, Toronto)
Pegasus Airlines (Dalaman)
Qatar Airways (Doha)
Singapore Airlines (Zurich, Singapore)
Syrian Air (Damascus)
Transaero (Moscow)
US Airways (Philadelphia)
Viking Airlines (Athens)
Virgin Atlantic Airways (Bridgetown (starting 13 November 2006), Orlando, St Lucia (starts 16 November 2006))
Zoom Airlines (Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary)




Terminal 3


Air Southwest (Bristol, Plymouth)
American Airlines (Boston, Chicago O'Hare, Miami)
bmi - domestic (Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, London Heathrow, Norwich)
British Airways (Alicante, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin Tegel, Billund, Bologna, Brussels, Cagliari, Copenhagen, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Geneva, Hanover, Innsbruck, Lyon, Madrid, Milan Malpensa, Murcia, New York Kennedy, Nice, Oslo, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Pisa, Rome Fiumicino, Stuttgart, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Verona, Vienna, Zurich)
British Airways CitiExpress (Aberdeen, Belfast City, Cork, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Isle of Man, Jersey, Knock, London Gatwick, London Heathrow, Shannon, Southampton)
Eastern Airways (Inverness, London Stansted, Norwich)
Finnair (Helsinki)
Loganair for British Airways (Derry)
Qantas(Codeshare operation)
SN Brussels Airlines (Brussels
VLM (London City)



Cargo Airlines

Air Hong Kong
Cargolux
China Airlines Cargo
Dragonair
Federal Express
MAS Kargo

Interesting and impressive list there Roly. However, why do you think that Liverpool forumers are arguing that Liverpool is likely to catch up with Manchester? With the exception of one post (on another thread) by Liverpolitan advocating a fantasy future scenario in which Manchester Airport closes down, which are clearly made in a tongue-in-cheek fashion and which no Liverpool forumer agreed with, all that has been pointed out is that (a) Liverpool Airport is growing strongly; (b) Some, but not all of that growth in passenger numbers has been at the expense of Manchester, insofar as many of those passengers travelling through Liverpool, had Liverpool not now provided services to their chosen destinations could well have passed through Manchester; and therefore (c) Manchester Airport continues to grow, however, Liverpool recent success is such that Manchester's growth would have been greater if it were not for the competition now provided by Liverpool.

None of us have crystal balls, and who knows what the air travel market of 2015 or even 2010 will be like, but I think that my view is similar to that of the consenus of the Liverpool forumers: that Liverpool will continue to grow and that the proportional difference between both airport's sizes will get closer over the next few years (although, due to a growing market not necessarily in absolute terms, the habitually preferred measure of EB and, as far as I am aware, no one else in the entire world of business and economics).

My guess is that Liverpool's passenger numbers will eventually settle into a situation of being approximately half those of Manchester's. Optimistic maybe, and local patriotism might have some bearing on that optimism. Still when one considers that Liverpool's passenger numbers are currently between one fifth and one quarter the size of Manchester's and were something like one twentieth only a few years ago, that's not too unlikely a prospect I think.

Please read what I wrote skit:



So, my point was that the low cost carriers have undermined the British Airways services and that this type of service was introduced to the North West by Liverpool Airport.

You make the claim that low cost services from Liverpool Airport have not affected British Airways services from Manchester. That is clearly nonsense. Up until the introduction of LCCs from Liverpool, anyone wanting to travel abroad from anywhere in Liverpool Airport's catchment area would have to travel to Manchester Airport. They would then pay money to British Airways to fly to a continental destination.

With the arrival of the extensive route networks of EasyJet and Ryanair, they no longer have to travel to Manchester and can fly from their local airport. Consequently British Airways receipts are reduced and so is the profitability of their service.

Of course, some traffic will be generated by the new service and some passengers will stick with British Airways for interlining purposes or the love of airline food but most will not.

It always amuses me how the decision by Manchester Airport to reduce its landing fees is presented as a shrewd business move. Do you honestly believe that Manchester wanted to do that? Don't airports make money by charging landing fees? Manchester was forced to do that to attract LCCs and though obviously the LCC market at Liverpool will be adversely affected to a certain extent, the ones really affected are the high cost carriers operating from Manchester.

By forcing Manchester to reduce its landing fees, Liverpool has done a lot to level the playing field between our two airports.


If you ready what I'D said then you'd realise that i was saying BA hasn't been effected by Liverpool airport. I Liverpool didn't exist then the LCC would be flying from Manchester instead.
Obviously LCC have effected BA but not that much since nearly all of BA's profit comes from the Transatlantic routes. BA Europe doesn't do much for BA's profit apart from keeping the HUB and spoke system working. Conincidently this is why BA reduced flights from Manc to non hub routes.

Anyway i'm sure there is room for Liverpool airport to exist i mean london has 5 airports.

Manchester is basically Heathrow and Liverpool is basically Luton.

Yet another ridiculous argument backed up by dody statistics. Hopefully someones gonna get really angry/upset soon make it a little more entertaining ;)

Interesting and impressive list there Roly. However, why do you think that Liverpool forumers are arguing that Liverpool is likely to catch up with Manchester? (a) Liverpool Airport is growing strongly; (b) Some, but not all of that growth in passenger numbers has been at the expense of Manchester, insofar as many of those passengers travelling through Liverpool, had Liverpool not now provided services to their chosen destinations could well have passed through Manchester; and therefore (c) Manchester Airport continues to grow, however, Liverpool recent success is such that Manchester's growth would have been greater if it were not for the competition now provided by Liverpool.

Its a nonsense argument IMO, when you can fly from Liverpool to Cape Town, Toronto, Barbados, New York, Moscow, Chicago, Boston, Bratislava,Atlanta, Jamaica... just for starters... come back and let us know, we might be bothered about it then if not exactly worried, I copied that list so Liverpool forumers could see this debate is a no brainer.. :bash:

I mean...its like little Gareth Gates having a couple of top 3 singles then proclaiming "This time next year I'll be as big as George Michael" it aint gonna happen is it? lol

OK. Awayo has written a very clear outline of the Liverpool position and I've done my best to present a reasonable argument.

Are we meant to continue trying to explain basic concepts such as relative growth or making the point that we do not believe that Liverpool will overtake Manchester until some Manchester forummer has sufficient attention span to actually read one of our postings?

My apologies but I've got some vinyl silk emulsion that I want to watch drying.

I mean...its like little Gareth Gates having a couple of top 3 singles then proclaiming "This time next year I'll be as big as George Michael" it aint gonna happen is it? lol

Sounds a bit Queer for my liking.... Are you in the right Forum...Nice boy!!!!

PS How do you know that George Michael is a big boy... i think you ought to get yourself a flight to those L.A toilets!!!!!

^ knock it off doka....