View Full Version : Transfering Air Rights = Taller Downtown LA and More Density.


LosAngelesSportsFan
January 14th, 2006, 03:41 AM
Good to hear that Metropolis is moving along and that its going to be tall, maybe taller than before??

Developers Raising Roof Over Rights to Downtown’s ‘Hot’ Air

By ANDY FIXMER
Los Angeles Business Journal Staff

There is nearly $100 million worth of thin air sitting on top of the Los Angeles Convention Center – and downtown boosters want the financially strapped city to cash in on it.

Councilwoman Jan Perry, whose Ninth District includes much of downtown L.A., is putting together a proposal to encourage the city to sell the “air rights” above the Convention Center to nearby housing developers.

The concept involves taking square footage that could have – but was not – built on a piece of property and transferring it to other parcels with tighter zoning restrictions. In the case of the Convention Center – a low slung complex spread out on 20 acres – there are 4.3 million square feet of excess development under existing zoning.

The result: Taller condo buildings downtown. A building’s height now is capped by a formula based on the size of its lot. But developers can add stories to their buildings by buying the air rights from nearby parcels.

Already last month, the city transferred some of the rights from the center to a developer of a large mixed-use residential project several blocks away at a rate of nearly $23 a square foot. The transfer was done by the Community Redevelopment Agency of Los Angeles on an individual basis.

Using that price, the remaining 4.3 million square feet of development rights at the Convention Center would be worth $98.9 million. If demand for extra density increases, so too could the value of the air rights.

Perry confirmed her office is working on such a proposal, but she said the motion was too preliminary to discuss specifics of her plan.

“For the last 20 years we’ve been waiting for this day, and we are uniquely positioned right now because of the market,” said Perry of the demand for high-density projects. “It’s time to revisit this policy and look at what needs to be done.”

In addition to Perry’s proposal, there are similar motions from the city’s planning department that are before the Council’s Planning and Land Use Management committee. Those proposals would apply specifically to residential developers, who could access the excess density from any public and private properties that have not maximized their zoning.

Developers would have to pay a public benefit fee – an amount still being determined by the CRA – for transferring development rights from private properties. The money could be used for affordable housing, social services and other programs.

The goal is to help narrow L.A.’s widening housing shortage, said Jane Blumenfeld, a principal planner in the city’s planning department who authored the motions. Under the proposals, developers of commercial and industrialized projects would still have to go through the full approvals process for those projects.

While some city neighborhoods have thrown up barriers for higher-density development, downtown has the infrastructure to handle the added population and congestion, said Carol Schatz, executive director of the Downtown Center Business Improvement District.

“As a city we need to build up, we need greater density and downtown is the perfect place to do it,” said Schatz, whose group supports the proposals. “Not too many other neighborhoods in the city would say the same thing.”Expensive option
David Mgrublian, the developer who purchased Convention Center air rights last month for a large mixed-use residential project called Metropolis, said the transfer process is a good tool but he doesn’t think it would be used very often.

“From a planning standpoint, it’s a good idea because adding density to an area makes it more pedestrian friendly,” said Mgrublian, managing director of IDS Real Estate. “But it’s also expensive to use.”

High density projects in downtown translate into taller buildings that become exponentially more costly to build. “The higher the number of floors,” he said, “the more expensive.”

Mark Tarczynski, a first vice president with CB Richard Ellis Group Inc. who specializes in downtown residential properties, disagreed with Mgrublian and said downtown developers are desperate to find ways to add more units to their projects.

“I think it’s a great idea,” he said. “We are scrambling for additional density to create additional urban infill housing and this is one way we can get it.”

Transferring development rights isn’t a new concept. The city first instituted the process in the booming real estate days of the 1980s, and sold rights to developers Robert Maguire and Jim Thomas to build the US Bank Tower, downtown’s tallest skyscraper.

The development rights were transferred from the city’s Central Library, which was extensively renovated and modernized using the proceeds from the transaction.

Still, selling off development rights turned out to be a short-lived experiment for the city. By 1991, L.A.’s real estate market had collapsed and a deep recession was dragging down the economy.

“When I first came to this job this was an issue we dealt with for months,” Schatz said. “Then all of a sudden it wasn’t an issue because the market bottomed out and nobody was interested in it anymore.”

Homeward bound
Until recently, developers had no need to buy extra density because building high-rise projects hadn’t made economic sense downtown. However, with sizzling condo prices, residential developers have streamed into the market and today there are plans in various stages for about 50 residential towers.

Moreover, there is no shortage of uses for the money the city could reap selling the development rights off the Convention Center.

Already, the city is paying $20 million a year out of its general fund to pay off bonds from the construction of the Convention Center, which doesn’t book enough business to be self-sufficient.

Schatz believes the money should be sunk back into building affordable housing. “We need to commit to making sure we have enough housing for all income levels,” she said. “That is of the utmost importance.”The city planning proposal, which came forward in July, would streamline the process of transferring development rights, which routinely takes a year to complete.

Currently, if a development firm wants to buy rights off a low-rise building, the company needs permission from the Area Planning Commission, the Community Redevelopment Agency of Los Angeles and the City Council.

The proposal would eliminate approvals from the Area Planning Commission and City Council. And the department expanded the area where development rights can be transferred to the entire downtown.

“Right now the process is exceedingly onerous and time-consuming, which is one of the main reasons it hasn’t been used,” said Blumenfeld, the city planner. “Our goal is to make it as simple as possible for developers to build more housing downtown.”

godblessbotox
January 14th, 2006, 03:56 AM
so if they by air rights from surrounding buildings does that mean that those lots, if they were to be rebuilt can only built to the leftover hights goverend by the leftover air rights? i must say i am mildly confused by this one

latennisguy
January 14th, 2006, 05:03 AM
[LosAngelesSportsFan]Good to hear that Metropolis is moving along and that its going to be tall, maybe taller than before??

Have you guys seen this rendering of METROPOLIS?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/samceb/metropolisnew.jpg

dweebo2220
January 14th, 2006, 06:17 AM
I mean, those buildings are pretty cool, but WHAT’S WITH THAT WALLL!!
Is this park la brea ultimo!!?? I thought everyone knew that mixed use and pedestrian friendly frontage with retail was the way to go..

I’m always afraid with these new developments that downtown is just going to be a TALL neighborhood of gated communities, like is happening in “downtown” Irvine, and is already in place in many parts of Miami. People have pools, bars, gyms, etc. all in their building complexes now.. In the future it’ll just be like “Do you live in corporate complex A, B, or C?”

CarsonCaliBrotha
January 14th, 2006, 06:39 AM
I mean, those buildings are pretty cool, but WHAT’S WITH THAT WALLL!!
Is this park la brea ultimo!!?? I thought everyone knew that mixed use and pedestrian friendly frontage with retail was the way to go..

I’m always afraid with these new developments that downtown is just going to be a TALL neighborhood of gated communities, like is happening in “downtown” Irvine, and is already in place in many parts of Miami. People have pools, bars, gyms, etc. all in their building complexes now.. In the future it’ll just be like “Do you live in corporate complex A, B, or C?”
Thats what I've been saying for the longest.

Fern~Fern*
January 14th, 2006, 07:33 AM
Have you guys seen this rendering of METROPOLIS?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/samceb/metropolisnew.jpg

Finally we get some pix of Metropolis. The only thing is that those buildings look kind of short. I just hope is because the angle the pix was taken.

latennisguy
January 14th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Finally we get some pix of Metropolis. The only thing is that those buildings look kind of short. I just hope is because the angle the pix was taken.


My thoughts exactly! Those towers look so damn short. Maybe these have probably also been updated. Weird, becuase the owner seems to have bought some of the air rights from the convention center, presumably to be able to build higher than the original plans. Wait, wait, wait...I hate waiting. Oh well, as long as I can afford to buy one in 3 years when I'm an architect. :D

Fern~Fern*
January 14th, 2006, 07:43 AM
In 3 years it's going to be like, "Party @ LA Tennis Guy Pad".......

latennisguy
January 14th, 2006, 01:08 PM
In 3 years it's going to be like, "Party @ LA Tennis Guy Pad".......

Hell yeah!!!! :cheers:

Robert Stark
January 14th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Good to hear that Metropolis is moving along and that its going to be tall, maybe taller than before??

Developers Raising Roof Over Rights to Downtown’s ‘Hot’ Air

By ANDY FIXMER
Los Angeles Business Journal Staff

There is nearly $100 million worth of thin air sitting on top of the Los Angeles Convention Center – and downtown boosters want the financially strapped city to cash in on it.

Councilwoman Jan Perry, whose Ninth District includes much of downtown L.A., is putting together a proposal to encourage the city to sell the “air rights” above the Convention Center to nearby housing developers.

The concept involves taking square footage that could have – but was not – built on a piece of property and transferring it to other parcels with tighter zoning restrictions. In the case of the Convention Center – a low slung complex spread out on 20 acres – there are 4.3 million square feet of excess development under existing zoning.

The result: Taller condo buildings downtown. A building’s height now is capped by a formula based on the size of its lot. But developers can add stories to their buildings by buying the air rights from nearby parcels.

Already last month, the city transferred some of the rights from the center to a developer of a large mixed-use residential project several blocks away at a rate of nearly $23 a square foot. The transfer was done by the Community Redevelopment Agency of Los Angeles on an individual basis.

Using that price, the remaining 4.3 million square feet of development rights at the Convention Center would be worth $98.9 million. If demand for extra density increases, so too could the value of the air rights.

Perry confirmed her office is working on such a proposal, but she said the motion was too preliminary to discuss specifics of her plan.

“For the last 20 years we’ve been waiting for this day, and we are uniquely positioned right now because of the market,” said Perry of the demand for high-density projects. “It’s time to revisit this policy and look at what needs to be done.”

In addition to Perry’s proposal, there are similar motions from the city’s planning department that are before the Council’s Planning and Land Use Management committee. Those proposals would apply specifically to residential developers, who could access the excess density from any public and private properties that have not maximized their zoning.

Developers would have to pay a public benefit fee – an amount still being determined by the CRA – for transferring development rights from private properties. The money could be used for affordable housing, social services and other programs.

The goal is to help narrow L.A.’s widening housing shortage, said Jane Blumenfeld, a principal planner in the city’s planning department who authored the motions. Under the proposals, developers of commercial and industrialized projects would still have to go through the full approvals process for those projects.

While some city neighborhoods have thrown up barriers for higher-density development, downtown has the infrastructure to handle the added population and congestion, said Carol Schatz, executive director of the Downtown Center Business Improvement District.

“As a city we need to build up, we need greater density and downtown is the perfect place to do it,” said Schatz, whose group supports the proposals. “Not too many other neighborhoods in the city would say the same thing.”Expensive option
David Mgrublian, the developer who purchased Convention Center air rights last month for a large mixed-use residential project called Metropolis, said the transfer process is a good tool but he doesn’t think it would be used very often.

“From a planning standpoint, it’s a good idea because adding density to an area makes it more pedestrian friendly,” said Mgrublian, managing director of IDS Real Estate. “But it’s also expensive to use.”

High density projects in downtown translate into taller buildings that become exponentially more costly to build. “The higher the number of floors,” he said, “the more expensive.”

Mark Tarczynski, a first vice president with CB Richard Ellis Group Inc. who specializes in downtown residential properties, disagreed with Mgrublian and said downtown developers are desperate to find ways to add more units to their projects.

“I think it’s a great idea,” he said. “We are scrambling for additional density to create additional urban infill housing and this is one way we can get it.”

Transferring development rights isn’t a new concept. The city first instituted the process in the booming real estate days of the 1980s, and sold rights to developers Robert Maguire and Jim Thomas to build the US Bank Tower, downtown’s tallest skyscraper.

The development rights were transferred from the city’s Central Library, which was extensively renovated and modernized using the proceeds from the transaction.

Still, selling off development rights turned out to be a short-lived experiment for the city. By 1991, L.A.’s real estate market had collapsed and a deep recession was dragging down the economy.

“When I first came to this job this was an issue we dealt with for months,” Schatz said. “Then all of a sudden it wasn’t an issue because the market bottomed out and nobody was interested in it anymore.”

Homeward bound
Until recently, developers had no need to buy extra density because building high-rise projects hadn’t made economic sense downtown. However, with sizzling condo prices, residential developers have streamed into the market and today there are plans in various stages for about 50 residential towers.

Moreover, there is no shortage of uses for the money the city could reap selling the development rights off the Convention Center.

Already, the city is paying $20 million a year out of its general fund to pay off bonds from the construction of the Convention Center, which doesn’t book enough business to be self-sufficient.

Schatz believes the money should be sunk back into building affordable housing. “We need to commit to making sure we have enough housing for all income levels,” she said. “That is of the utmost importance.”The city planning proposal, which came forward in July, would streamline the process of transferring development rights, which routinely takes a year to complete.

Currently, if a development firm wants to buy rights off a low-rise building, the company needs permission from the Area Planning Commission, the Community Redevelopment Agency of Los Angeles and the City Council.

The proposal would eliminate approvals from the Area Planning Commission and City Council. And the department expanded the area where development rights can be transferred to the entire downtown.

“Right now the process is exceedingly onerous and time-consuming, which is one of the main reasons it hasn’t been used,” said Blumenfeld, the city planner. “Our goal is to make it as simple as possible for developers to build more housing downtown.”

Is that Borat from "Da Ali G Show"? :cheers:

Yakumoto
January 15th, 2006, 08:55 AM
“We need to commit to making sure we have enough housing for all income levels”

...

CarsonCaliBrotha
January 15th, 2006, 09:51 AM
I can see DTLA turning into basically a huge gated community.

Fern~Fern*
January 15th, 2006, 10:18 AM
I can see DTLA turning into basically a huge gated community.

I don't think that's going to happen. As more residence move in, more businesses will follow. Before you know it, you will big chains Downtown. Just like they did back in the early 80's. Just wait and see!!!!

LosAngelesSportsFan
January 15th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Yup thats borat!

i_am_hydrogen
January 15th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I just want to see LA's skyline grow and grow and grow forever. It doesn't need a great skyline to be a great city, but I'd still love to see that for LA.

alex3000
January 15th, 2006, 10:05 PM
I can see DTLA turning into basically a huge gated community.

Are you like against everything and anything and blahblahthing that has to do with money and rich people??? DTLA is pretty ghetto already, don't make it even ghettoer.

PotatoGuy
January 15th, 2006, 11:11 PM
Are you like against everything and anything and blahblahthing that has to do with money and rich people??? DTLA is pretty ghetto already, don't make it even ghettoer.

i know. for many people the first thought that comes into their heads when they think dtla is like skid row

CarsonCaliBrotha
January 16th, 2006, 12:36 AM
Are you like against everything and anything and blahblahthing that has to do with money and rich people??? DTLA is pretty ghetto already, don't make it even ghettoer.
And what made you say that about me? I don't want DTLA to become "ghetto", but I don't want it to be a place full of rich snobs. They need a balance. I mean, if it's just rich people, they'll want it to be even more secure. If we have a balance, then we'll have a real living, breathing LA. Hot dog stands, burrito stands, taco stands, corn stands, park space, subways, people everywhere, beautiful!

LANative
January 16th, 2006, 02:33 AM
And what made you say that about me? I don't want DTLA to become "ghetto", but I don't want it to be a place full of rich snobs. They need a balance. I mean, if it's just rich people, they'll want it to be even more secure. If we have a balance, then we'll have a real living, breathing LA. Hot dog stands, burrito stands, taco stands, corn stands, park space, subways, people everywhere, beautiful!
Yeah like New York and Chicago, they are real balanced cities.

Yakumoto
January 16th, 2006, 07:27 AM
Are you like against everything and anything and blahblahthing that has to do with money and rich people??? DTLA is pretty ghetto already, don't make it even ghettoer.

I love this logic! If people with money aren't allowed to move downtown, then downtown is going to get ghettoer?

Lets be clear about this, all this development downtown is not for "all income groups", Its being built specifically for a certain upper income demographic. And what is best for them isn't always whats best for everyone else.

I'm surprised no one jumped on SVS, when he said they should move all the homeless and social services south of the 10 freeway...you know, send them all down to south central. While this would be a great move for boosting land value downtown, there isn't any sort of benefit to the homeless from moving them around. What's probably best for them is building more shelters and services in the area where they already are.

Gated communities downtown? Umm, what do you call Mendici?

Hot dog stands, burrito stands, taco stands

Downtown will have them, if the BID allows it. True Urbanity!

FROM LOS ANGELES
January 16th, 2006, 07:45 AM
I like thinking of dt as a city where the poor and the rich ride the red line. A place where the all of them live under the same jungle of towering skyscrapers. The day dt LA becomes a gated community, the day the city would have lost it's cbd.

klamedia
January 16th, 2006, 07:51 AM
Their seems to be alot of blatant classism going on here , and it's quite disturbing! What's up with this "ghetto" shit?? Cities have ghettos! They also have well to do areas. The combination of these varying class levels is what creates a vibrant and real city and not something like a whitewashed stiff assed Laguna Beach scenario. Homeless people are not to be shitted upon or talked about ribaldly. Many of these folks served in the armed forces and if they are chemically dependant many times got hooked during their tours! And even if they didn't it really isn't any of your goddam business. These people need help! Our fellow Angeleno citizens! Our brothers and sisters!
It just really sounds like some of you don't know shit about nothing and have lived a very, very, very sheltered life.
Stop this classist and subtle racist shit NOW!!
Yawl about to make me go left!:gunz:

Manila-X
January 16th, 2006, 08:23 AM
I only thing I'm concerned about is safety especially @ night!

LANative
January 16th, 2006, 08:28 AM
I only thing I'm concerned about is safety especially @ night!
Same here. All I care about is my safety as well.

Manila-X
January 16th, 2006, 09:32 AM
I wouldn't mind if you got the elite and lower class in one downtown as long as again, either side don't create trouble!

And when I was there, Downtown LA was one of those places in the city where you wouldn't wanna walk at night!

CarsonCaliBrotha
January 16th, 2006, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't mind if you got the elite and lower class in one downtown as long as again, either side don't create trouble!

And when I was there, Downtown LA was one of those places in the city where you wouldn't wanna walk at night!
It doesn't matter who you are or how much money you make, people cause trouble sometimes.

Yakumoto
January 16th, 2006, 07:00 PM
And when I was there, Downtown LA was one of those places in the city where you wouldn't wanna walk at night!

I assumed you would be into places you wouldn't want to walk at night...or do you just like looking at pictures of them?

Urban grit and ghetto enthusiast or any urban area that looks really nasty!

dweebo2220
January 16th, 2006, 09:19 PM
I keep looking at that picture of METROPOLIS...

I can't tell if that wall and gate make it look more like a prison or JURASSIC PARK!!

also, doesn't anyone remember that METROPOLIS is the name of the first movie to comment on classism in cities!! In that movie the poor live UNDERGROUND!!

FROM LOS ANGELES
January 16th, 2006, 09:42 PM
All we're saying is that dt LA has more insecure parts than secured parts. Nobody here is being a racist of any kind. Nobody has to leave.

klamedia
January 17th, 2006, 12:30 AM
I don't quite understand what "insecure parts" and "secured parts" really mean. Though, we will always have Hollywood, a true multi-class, multi-ethnic part of town that imo really is much more vibrant than downtown will ever be with much much much more interesting history. Also, the #1 tourist trap. It can be "ghetto" or "fly". "Grunge-y" or "slick." Downtown just might become what Lower Manhattan is, a place for the wealthy, cold and unfriendly, ever been to Battery Park? But Hollywood will always be the place! The only other section of town that has the "multi" layered thing down like a one-legged pony is Venice. Every place else is a bit "too" much of one thing.

LANative
January 17th, 2006, 12:44 AM
Well it ain't like L.A.s downtown is the only downtown that is unsafe at night.

LosAngelesSportsFan
January 17th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Downtown LA is not unsafe at night. Yes there might be some bums hanging around, but in general, it is not unsafe at all. Ive walked from Staples Center, through McArthur Park and down Wilshire after a Laker game, so aorund 11 - 12 and nothing happened or was close to happening. Get a grip people. I actually think downtown is one of the safer parts at night, and i think the crime rates prove it.

FROM LOS ANGELES
January 18th, 2006, 02:35 AM
Does anybody know the safest place inside the dt borders.

mongozx
January 18th, 2006, 02:46 AM
. . .

CarsonCaliBrotha
January 18th, 2006, 04:49 AM
Does anybody know the safest place inside the dt borders.
You can die any place, and time, any day. Live by those words.

klamedia
January 18th, 2006, 10:25 AM
I've read somewhere that Downtown is safer than Beverly Hills. Lower crime, murder rate.

Fern~Fern*
January 19th, 2006, 04:46 AM
Does anybody know the safest place inside the dt borders.


Yea, the Flower District by St. Julian and 7th Ave.

Yakumoto
January 19th, 2006, 06:00 AM
Does anybody know the safest place inside the dt borders.

Probably high up in some office building with the lights off, shades down, and windows locked.

FROM LOS ANGELES
January 20th, 2006, 04:01 AM
^^^ LOL. I jsut thought of th elevated plaza next to the Citygroup Center, I like eating there when I go dt, it's nice and quit, but you see all the street action.