^^ How much of that assumption is by how he dresses? ;)

for you guys who don't like tagalog, isn't it the national language, so unfortunately you have to learn it. There needs to be a unifying language and tagalog was relegated as such. Tagalog and English both should be learned. and then you have your third language which is the regional dialects. There was an article recently where learning multi languages or multilingual speakers have great benefits in improving your brain. :lol:

maybe it's just my regionalistic pride that won't allow me to be bend :ohno:
but seriously i don't like other filipino languages except my native one it's because maybe i have a natural dislike against them. lolol :lol:

^^^^
@crappy pants and @epik ll ian,
A language which is spoken by more than a million people per language can hardly be construed as a mere dialect. Furthermore, the regional languages, NOT DIALECTS, never ever sprung out of Tagalog. Rather, each language, including Tagalog, evolved side by side for centuries even before the Spanish came. Not one on top of the other. My first language is Cebuano, I can tell you that I have zero Tagalog blood. Btw, its not a matter of hating the language, that aint the issue here. I like the Tagalog kundimans. The issue boiled up when epik insisted that everyones first language is Tagalog, which is patently false.

Our national language is Filipino. Tagalog is supposed to be the basis but the constitution explicitly called for Filipino to be enriched with the OTHER regional languages. Something which successive governments are not really keen on doing, strange isn't it?

Did you not notice my correction? Did you also not read everything else I wrote? I spend time so much writing all this because I not only care for the future of the Philippines, but I'm doing this to help those with an "identity crisis" become proud of being Filipino, and most importantly I'm doing this to help the Philippines preserve its rich culture. I don't sit here wasting my time writing these long posts because I'm bored. So at least read what I write cause I already cleared this in what I wrote in my last post. Don't get feisty on the minor details of what I wrote. At least discuss the main point.

LIKE I SAID, maybe for a lot of people's it's not your FIRST language, but I said it is the NATIONAL language. Yes, you have Cebuano blood, you are Cebuano, great. That's not my point. Cebuano, as developed of a language as it is, is not the National language. You don't see me getting offended because I refer to Kapampangan as a dialect since it's not the national language. As proud as I am of being Kapampangan (I also have zero Tagalog blood), I'm not getting regionalistic about it not being the national language or about it being called a "mere dialect." They are all well developed LANGUAGES. I got IT. However, Tagalog is the chosen binding language which all Filipinos should and have to learn, so they can all communicate with each other. That's how it's always been for almost a hundred years. This shouldn't be new to anyone. I agree with you on Tagalog is the national language which should be enriched with the other existing langauges of the Philippines. However, the Philippines can't exist as a country - as a single entity - if its people can't communicate with each other.

That's the other thing that's bringing the Philippines down. Other nations are divided into different regions, but a lot of Filipinos have the strongest case of regionalism, it gets so strong that it seems like people from other regions belong to different countries. This is really saddening, and this attitude should not be as strong as it is. They always put the love for their region over the love for their country. In the end however, we are all Filipino. We do not belong to the nation of Pampanga or Ilocos or Cebu, we belong to the nation of the Philippines. Everyone SHOULD be proud of which part they come from, and they should be proud of the contributions their regions have given to the Philippines as a whole, BUT they should NOT put it ahead of their country. We all operate under the same system, and we are all governed by the same government, and basically we have pretty much the same ethnic composition. So all in all, everyone's Filipino in the end. The Philippines can't develop together as a whole - as a nation - if people keep maintaining these regionalistic attitudes about where they're from and how they're better. Just work for your country. I'm not referring to any one specific in this thread, but I'm referring to Filipino's as a whole who maintain this attitude.

I'd also like to say R.I.P. to former RP president, Cory Aquino, who just died a few hours ago :\

It was quite sad of how some people in this thread think negatively or unsure of thier own culture and true identity. The thought that bringing Spanish back was like going back in the old Spanish times is totally redicules. Perhaps it is right time for the Filipinos to reliazed that Spanish was not a dead languages but a living languages spoken by more than 500 million peoples around the world. It is second only to English by Speakers. The reindtroduction of Spanish back in public schools is way to get closer and relearning our past. Its way to open built and strenghten trade relation with Spanish speaking countries. To promote and share cultural awareness with our Spanish speaking cousin in the Americas and Europe. Unlike English, Spanish will be easier to learn because Tagalog and natives regional dialect contain thousands of borrowed words from Spanish. Spanish would be easier to pronounced unlike English which are pronounced not as they are written. Most of us today chose to not to think of us as Hispanic but we are. Being hispanic does not mean that we should speak Spanish or referring only to Spanish speakers but it is referring to the culture and influences brought to us by Spain. Most earlier Filipino patriots and natinalist would consider themselves hispanic even president Arroyo admit in an interview that we are the only hispanic country in Asia. Being Hispanic was not as bad as the Aglo Saxon portrayed in thier bias hollywood movies and cultured in which they downgraded hispanic as low which is totally false.The Philippines as a country may be geographically closer to Asia but culturally closer to latin Americas.The Filipinos cultured is the result of the fusion between west and east meeting together in our country and there is nothing wrong with this. Instead of hating it, we should be proud of it. If there are peoples who can promote our race and culture it is only the Filipinos. Viva Filipinas unidos seremos invencibles.

Lol people being smartasses..apparently wearing a hat has some connection with being black...lmfao

^^^^
What happened to our country was just mismanagement and poor governance followed by the Marcos dictatorships, the mass corruption during his 20 years in office and the political turmoil and social unrest that followed after his ousted from office. The Philippines had the greatest chance of attaining the first world in the 50s and 60s. Our GDP was higher than any country in Asia except Japan and even some western European countries like Spain and Portugal and Greece but the problem was we blew our chances. We took the wrong path for the downturn. Imagine what our country could have become if we didn't blew it. There is no one else to blame not the colonizer but us.

Hmmm seriously,

"Hispanic country of Asia" (Do the majority even speak Spanish as their FIRST LANGUAGE?), "3rd largest English speaking country in the world" (Again, do the majority speak English as their FIRST LANGUAGE?)

What are other foolish claims can we gather just to prove that we are not simply Filipinos?

:lol:

Get real.

^^ Not just wearing a hat, it's how you wear the hat. ;)

It was quite sad of how some people in this thread think negatively or unsure of thier own culture and true identity. The thought that bringing Spanish back was like going back in the old Spanish times is totally redicules. Perhaps it is right time for the Filipinos to reliazed that Spanish was not a dead languages but a living languages spoken by more than 500 million peoples around the world. It is second only to English by Speakers. The reindtroduction of Spanish back in public schools is way to get closer and relearning our past. Its way to open built and strenghten trade relation with Spanish speaking countries. To promote and share cultural awareness with our Spanish speaking cousin in the Americas and Europe. Unlike English, Spanish will be easier to learn because Tagalog and natives regional dialect contain thousands of borrowed words from Spanish. Spanish would be easier to pronounced unlike English which are pronounced not as they are written. Most of us today chose to not to think of us as Hispanic but we are. Being hispanic does not mean that we should speak Spanish or referring only to Spanish speakers but it is referring to the culture and influences brought to us by Spain. Most earlier Filipino patriots and natinalist would consider themselves hispanic even president Arroyo admit in an interview that we are the only hispanic country in Asia. Being Hispanic was not as bad as the Aglo Saxon portrayed in thier bias hollywood movies and cultured in which they downgraded hispanic as low which is totally false.The Philippines as a country may be geographically closer to Asia but culturally closer to latin Americas.The Filipinos cultured is the result of the fusion between west and east meeting together in our country and there is nothing wrong with this. Instead of hating it, we should be proud of it. If there are peoples who can promote our race and culture it is only the Filipinos. Viva Filipinas unidos seremos invencibles.

Sigh this will never get through. I'm not referring to the "portrayal of the poor Latin American man" on Hollywood. In a matter of fact Latinos are a kind and successful lot that I do have respect for.

I'm talking about practicality. Learning languages is the key for a nation's success, and I'm not saying abolishing Spanish. Spanish was a sliver of our colonial past, so we can't turn it down. English was too. So don't downplay English/the language of business. Tagalog is peppered with many English words as well. Many people want to turn back to making Spanish the national language of the Philippines. This is bogus. This is like putting up the white flag and saying, "Hey Spain, we're not good enough, we don't like our language, we have none of our own pride." And I'll stand by that remark. Making Spanish the first language is a huge step back for Filipino pride.

The most practical and essential foreign languages Filipinos should learn are Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, since it's these countries that provide the BULK of investments and business in SE Asia. If someone was standing in front of you, offering to help you and let you grow, are you going to turn it down? That's really what some of you Asian-Denial people are doing right now. Did you not see the SCTex which was built under Japanese cooperation? Do you see them selfishly benefiting/monopolizing it? No!

On a different yet similar note, "Mandarin Chinese is of keen interest because the whole world is clamoring for Chinese studies in which many teachers and textbooks have fallen short of the demand. It will be useful for the Philippines, since there is an over 140%!!!! jump in Chinese tourists coming to the country and such language skills can also be used for agriculture, engineering, IT, technology and medical fields. Same with Japanese and Korean. There are already over a dozen Philippine universities that have implemented Chinese language courses and that is a great start." China is making a 7 trillion dollar output each year, why can't the Philippines also benefit from that, like so many other countries are doing? Asia has a number of the FASTEST growing economies in the WORLD. And the Philippines should be a PART of it - take part in it, learn from it, and benefit from it (not just being a leech but a fair player). Can't you see the Philippines is falling behind Japan, Singapore and South Korea? It's the brutal truth, but how much will it take to wake everyone up? If you look at the statistics, the Philippines is still 3rd world, do you LIKE that label? I hate that label! I want the Philippines to be the best. I want Filipinos to be proud of being Filipino and not still fledgling and weak because of years of colonization. We should focus on foreign investment which is so bountiful and so next to us. And it's RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES. Asian economies are blossoming right now, and that too is an undeniable fact. Japan and Korea and China are also there contributing to us. Why are you denying them, and going back to your little slice of colonial past to Mexico and Spain? I'm not saying don't learn Spanish, but why are you downgrading one of the most powerful opportunities you have of bringing the Philippines out of the 3rd world?? The Philippines used to be one of the 4 tigers of ASIA, not Latin America, Not Europe, of Asia. Don't you yearn for your country to have that title again???

Japanese and Korean should also be learned since Japan is one of the biggest investors in the Philippines and South Korea is one of the biggest sources of tourists and investments as well. Look at Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea all sending hundreds of thousands of students to China and Taiwan to learn Chinese, because they know it is important to learn, even the Philippines is starting to turn to this trend now. Don't you see how much more conducive it is for Filipinos to prioritize Tagalog and then English/Chinese/Japanese and Korean. The investments and the tourism are all THERE and SET, waiting for you! Why is it that so many Filipinos get so uptight about foreign language (other than Spanish) learning? Is it denial? Resources are so low compared to the demand of Chinese learning. What does this tell you?! There is also a big ethnic Chinese minority living in the Philippines. Are you really going to be that rude to them while flaunting your some new found allegiance to Spain? Are you going to deny how big of a contribution the Hokkien/Chinese minority have made the the Philippines, not to mention the many hundreds if not thousands of years the Chinese been trading with the Philippines and helping it develop?

I'm not saying don't learn Spanish. It is important to our history, but why must you guys prioritize Spanish learning?? We're definitely not as Hispanic as we are Asian. Stop being in denial. Spain did not colonize America as long as the Filipinos have been there and as long as the Asians have been frequently trading with us. Is it really that hard to understand?? You can read this somewhat controversial article if you want:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/170270/filipinos_are_not_hispanic.html?cat=37

I won't say it's my favorite article since he gets to be a little race-y. But he does make interesting points.

Mexico and Spain are our cousins to a certain extent, but there was a reason why we fought for our independence from Spain so long ago. If we were in the U.S. right now talking, I would be having a different argument right now. I'd say it would be wise for Americans to learn Spanish because we're so close to Mexico and South America, and we have close economic ties with Spain. But that's not the Filipino case right now. The Philippines is in Asia, and MOST OF/the majority of its culture is Asian. You can't erase that HUGE part of history just because it wasn't as imminent as the fresh Spanish colonization. You also should not deny this either. This Philippines lasted a LONG time before the Spanish came in the 1500's. It's good to keep a good relationship with Spain and Latin America, but why must you all undermine and turn your back to learning languages OTHER than Spanish which are so conducive to the growth of the Philippines? These languages used to be so vital to the Philippines before the Spanish came for a short time. Is it denial that's preventing the learning/reviving of languages? How much more of a hit do we need for people to wake up?

Hmmm seriously,

"Hispanic country of Asia" (Do the majority even speak Spanish as their FIRST LANGUAGE?), "3rd largest English speaking country in the world" (Again, do the majority speak English as their FIRST LANGUAGE?)

What are other foolish claims can we gather just to prove that we are not simply Filipinos?

:lol:

Get real.

true, like it or not the majority understand and speak tagalog. however this is not the language thread as we have been warned by one of the mods. :lol:

^^ Kaya ang Tatay ko, kahit magaling mag Pangasinense, mag Intsik o magbikol, parating nagtatagalog sa bahay kahit pilipilipit para maintindihan namin. At pag minumura kami hindi Tagalog ang gamit niya para hindi naman namin maintindihan.

Pero pag sininturon kami at nag latay... very understood namin and with feelings. :lol:

well he kinda look like the rapper loyd banks the eyes nose and lips gives it not about how he dress. :D

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/lloyd-banks-2006-bet-awards-press-room-0iQYLc.jpg

Did you not notice my correction? Did you also not read everything else I wrote? I spend time so much writing all this because I not only care for the future of the Philippines, but I'm doing this to help those with an "identity crisis" become proud of being Filipino, and most importantly I'm doing this to help the Philippines preserve its rich culture. I don't sit here wasting my time writing these long posts because I'm bored. So at least read what I write cause I already cleared this in what I wrote in my last post. Don't get feisty on the minor details of what I wrote. At least discuss the main point.

LIKE I SAID, maybe for a lot of people's it's not your FIRST language, but I said it is the NATIONAL language. Yes, you have Cebuano blood, you are Cebuano, great. That's not my point. Cebuano, as developed of a language as it is, is not the National language. You don't see me getting offended because I refer to Kapampangan as a dialect since it's not the national language. As proud as I am of being Kapampangan (I also have zero Tagalog blood), I'm not getting regionalistic about it not being the national language or about it being called a "mere dialect." They are all well developed LANGUAGES. I got IT. However, Tagalog is the chosen binding language which all Filipinos should and have to learn, so they can all communicate with each other. That's how it's always been for almost a hundred years. This shouldn't be new to anyone. I agree with you on Tagalog is the national language which should be enriched with the other existing langauges of the Philippines. However, the Philippines can't exist as a country - as a single entity - if its people can't communicate with each other.

That's the other thing that's bringing the Philippines down. Other nations are divided into different regions, but a lot of Filipinos have the strongest case of regionalism, it gets so strong that it seems like people from other regions belong to different countries. This is really saddening, and this attitude should not be as strong as it is. They always put the love for their region over the love for their country. In the end however, we are all Filipino. We do not belong to the nation of Pampanga or Ilocos or Cebu, we belong to the nation of the Philippines. Everyone SHOULD be proud of which part they come from, and they should be proud of the contributions their regions have given to the Philippines as a whole, BUT they should NOT put it ahead of their country. We all operate under the same system, and we are all governed by the same government, and basically we have pretty much the same ethnic composition. So all in all, everyone's Filipino in the end. The Philippines can't develop together as a whole - as a nation - if people keep maintaining these regionalistic attitudes about where they're from and how they're better. Just work for your country. I'm not referring to any one specific in this thread, but I'm referring to Filipino's as a whole who maintain this attitude.

I'd also like to say R.I.P. to former RP president, Cory Aquino, who just died a few hours ago :\

first, you say "tagalog is our first language." then you said "our language are just dialects." i read your post and it's clear to me. you dont have a good comprehension of what is fact or fiction.

first, you say "tagalog is our first language." then you said "our language are just dialects." i read your post and it's clear to me. you dont have a good comprehension of what is fact or fiction.

Have you ever read before? Cause you're obviously not understanding this sentence which you quoted

LIKE I SAID, maybe for a lot of people's it's not your FIRST language, but I said it is the NATIONAL language.

Tagalog is the NATIONAL LANGUAGE. Do I have to spell out this sentence for you in a contract?! I understand that it's not the first language for all of you. It wasn't MINE EITHER. The point is, it's the National Language.

I'm not getting regionalistic about it not being the national language or about it being called a "mere dialect." They are all well developed LANGUAGES. I got IT. However, Tagalog is the chosen binding language which all Filipinos should and have to learn, so they can all communicate with each other.

Does that part of the quote make any sentence to you either?? THEY ARE ALL WELL DEVELOPED LANGUAGES. I said it right there for you. It's obviously not clear to you, learn to read.

Sigh this will never get through. I'm not referring to the "portrayal of the poor Latin American man" on Hollywood. In a matter of fact Latinos are a kind and successful lot that I do have respect for.

I'm talking about practicality. Learning languages is the key for a nation's success, and I'm not saying abolishing Spanish. Spanish was a sliver of our colonial past, so we can't turn it down. English was too. So don't downplay English/the language of business. Tagalog is peppered with many English words as well. Many people want to turn back to making Spanish the national language of the Philippines. This is bogus. This is like putting up the white flag and saying, "Hey Spain, we're not good enough, we don't like our language, we have none of our own pride." And I'll stand by that remark. Making Spanish the first language is a huge step back for Filipino pride.

The most practical and essential foreign languages Filipinos should learn are Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, since it's these countries that provide the BULK of investments and business in SE Asia. If someone was standing in front of you, offering to help you and let you grow, are you going to turn it down? That's really what some of you Asian-Denial people are doing right now. Did you not see the SCTex which was built under Japanese cooperation? Do you see them selfishly benefiting/monopolizing it? No!

On a different yet similar note, "Mandarin Chinese is of keen interest because the whole world is clamoring for Chinese studies in which many teachers and textbooks have fallen short of the demand. It will be useful for the Philippines, since there is an over 140%!!!! jump in Chinese tourists coming to the country and such language skills can also be used for agriculture, engineering, IT, technology and medical fields. Same with Japanese and Korean. There are already over a dozen Philippine universities that have implemented Chinese language courses and that is a great start." China is making a 7 trillion dollar output each year, why can't the Philippines also benefit from that, like so many other countries are doing? Asia has a number of the FASTEST growing economies in the WORLD. And the Philippines should be a PART of it - take part in it, learn from it, and benefit from it (not just being a leech but a fair player). Can't you see the Philippines is falling behind Japan, Singapore and South Korea? It's the brutal truth, but how much will it take to wake everyone up? If you look at the statistics, the Philippines is still 3rd world, do you LIKE that label? I hate that label! I want the Philippines to be the best. I want Filipinos to be proud of being Filipino and not still fledgling and weak because of years of colonization. We should focus on foreign investment which is so bountiful and so next to us. And it's RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES. Asian economies are blossoming right now, and that too is an undeniable fact. Japan and Korea and China are also there contributing to us. Why are you denying them, and going back to your little slice of colonial past to Mexico and Spain? I'm not saying don't learn Spanish, but why are you downgrading one of the most powerful opportunities you have of bringing the Philippines out of the 3rd world?? The Philippines used to be one of the 4 tigers of ASIA, not Latin America, Not Europe, of Asia. Don't you yearn for your country to have that title again???

Japanese and Korean should also be learned since Japan is one of the biggest investors in the Philippines and South Korea is one of the biggest sources of tourists and investments as well. Look at Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea all sending hundreds of thousands of students to China and Taiwan to learn Chinese, because they know it is important to learn, even the Philippines is starting to turn to this trend now. Don't you see how much more conducive it is for Filipinos to prioritize Tagalog and then English/Chinese/Japanese and Korean. The investments and the tourism are all THERE and SET, waiting for you! Why is it that so many Filipinos get so uptight about foreign language (other than Spanish) learning? Is it denial? Resources are so low compared to the demand of Chinese learning. What does this tell you?! There is also a big ethnic Chinese minority living in the Philippines. Are you really going to be that rude to them while flaunting your some new found allegiance to Spain? Are you going to deny how big of a contribution the Hokkien/Chinese minority have made the the Philippines, not to mention the many hundreds if not thousands of years the Chinese been trading with the Philippines and helping it develop?

I'm not saying don't learn Spanish. It is important to our history, but why must you guys prioritize Spanish learning?? We're definitely not as Hispanic as we are Asian. Stop being in denial. Spain did not colonize America as long as the Filipinos have been there and as long as the Asians have been frequently trading with us. Is it really that hard to understand?? You can read this somewhat controversial article if you want:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/170270/filipinos_are_not_hispanic.html?cat=37

I won't say it's my favorite article since he gets to be a little race-y. But he does make interesting points.

Mexico and Spain are our cousins to a certain extent, but there was a reason why we fought for our independence from Spain so long ago. If we were in the U.S. right now talking, I would be having a different argument right now. I'd say it would be wise for Americans to learn Spanish because we're so close to Mexico and South America, and we have close economic ties with Spain. But that's not the Filipino case right now. The Philippines is in Asia, and MOST OF/the majority of its culture is Asian. You can't erase that HUGE part of history just because it wasn't as imminent as the fresh Spanish colonization. You also should not deny this either. This Philippines lasted a LONG time before the Spanish came in the 1500's. It's good to keep a good relationship with Spain and Latin America, but why must you all undermine and turn your back to learning languages OTHER than Spanish which are so conducive to the growth of the Philippines? These languages used to be so vital to the Philippines before the Spanish came for a short time. Is it denial that's preventing the learning/reviving of languages? How much more of a hit do we need for people to wake up?

Many filipinos want the keep the hispanic heritage because our hispanic culture is an iberian european culture which by standards being european is superior to being chinese and other asian culture. Which makes a difference and provides uniqueness that separates us from other asians.

I never said that we should turn the Philippines into a little China or Spain. In a matter of fact, that would be the EXACT opposite of what I'm going for. The Philippines should be proud of being Filipino, but too many people are turning back and they WANT the Philippines to be a little Spain, and they want to bring Spanish back and bring it as the first language. This is ridiculous. There's a reason why the Filipino forefathers fought for Filipino independence. Because we are FILIPINO not Spanish. Yes, the language is peppered with Spanish words which are mostly pidginized. Also, we have MUCH more of the neighboring language groups in our vernacular: MOSTLY Malaysian, Chinese, Indonesian, Arabic, and more recently, English. It's already bad enough the Filipino forefathers fought so bravely for an independent Philippines, and now a lot of its people want to revert back to being Spanish, and then the corrupt government leaders took over to serve them themselves and not the people.

What I mentioned before, is it would behoove of the Philippines to turn to a greater interest in Chinese instead of Spanish due to its geographic and cultural location. The 333 years of Spanish colonial past is only a SLICE of Filipino history that ended a hundred years ago. It's over now, the Philippines no longer belongs to the Western Spanish empire. Filipinos should be proud of their rich history with some western influence, but they should not let it take over or let it seize the majority of what its true cultural past was. The Philippines was initially founded a long time ago by a mix of Asian influences - Malay, Chinese, Indonesian, Polynesian, Arab etc. That IN ITSELF is rich too. The Spanish made it richer to an extent, but it was never the primary culture.

Chinese is of interest EVERYWHERE because of its growing economic authority - whether you like it or not. It's better not to stay in denial. Even in the United States, Chinese schools and languages courses are sprouting up EVERYWHERE. I never said the Chinese should take over. It would be a good political move for the Philippines to receive economic partnership with China - which has stemmed for thousands of years. This partnership would enormously benefit the Philippines, and it would also help rehash the former Filipino-Chinese cultural ties that once existed before Spain took over. China is a HUGE economic (among other traits) power growing before our eyes. However, I never said it should take over the Philippines. That would be even worse. The Philippines is its own nation rich without its own beautiful history. It would be wise, however, to take advantage of it and cooperate with China.

Now, if you've ever taken history you would also know about the Sinosphere. Yes, those characteristics that you quoted me on are inherently Asian, but that's BECAUSE OF the Sinospheric circle of incluence. It's known as the Chinese Cultural/East Asian Cultural Sphere. It characterizes the group of countries around the China or with a big Chinese sub-population that have lived through years of heavy Chinese cultural influence. China's rich history dates back the longest and it has enriched the cultures of the nations surrounding it. You can not deny that Korea and Japan and Vietnam and Taiwan and MALAYSIA (a big Filipino ancestor) even the Philippines etc. have not endured great cultural exchange and development through China. These traits of shared Filipino-Chinese cultural are inherently Asian, but they belong under the Sinosphere influence.Yea, you never explicitly said turning the Philippines into a little China but everything else you mentioned in all your posts are heavily slanted towards that end. Again, having trade and cultural influences from China does not make us predominantly Chinese in flavour, nor any single one of our neighbours. We are our own people now, just Filipinos.

How eerie [highlights in red]. Gee, I do dabble in history from time to time. Had you ever heard of the Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere? That was the handiwork of the Empire of Japan at its height during the war. It had Japanese agents running all over the place to achieve that. Do we see a repeat of history but this time with Chinese agents running the show? Boy, what will the Uighurs and the Tibetans say about all this? After all, they too have their own proud history [albeit crushed under the Chinese boot]. Is that what is in store for the Philippines? :ohno:

but seriously i don't like other filipino languages except my native one it's because maybe i have a natural dislike against them. lolol :lol: I do find this train of thought utterly disturbing... :ohno:

Have you ever read before? Cause you're obviously not understanding this sentence which you quoted



Tagalog is the NATIONAL LANGUAGE. Do I have to spell out this sentence for you in a contract?! I understand that it's not the first language for all of you. It wasn't MINE EITHER. The point is, it's the National Language.



Does that part of the quote make any sentence to you either?? THEY ARE ALL WELL DEVELOPED LANGUAGES. I said it right there for you. It's obviously not clear to you, learn to read.

yes, you said this:

And that's ridiculous saying that Tagalog is not the Filipino's first language. It is most certainly the first language. Barely anybody in the Philippines speaks Spanish anymore, and that's a fact.

and this:

Ok. First of all, if you HAVEN'T noticed, it may not be your first language because of your dialects,

so what is it really? at least kami mas klaro mi sa among mga gipangyawyaw kay kabalo mi unsay language ug unsay dialect. kung dialect pa ni, sige daw kung kasabot ba ka ani? you never mentioned any language except tagalog because you wanna make people think the rest is but a dialect. so prove it. how dialect are the languages you claimed to be dialects.

I never said that we should turn the Philippines into a little China or Spain. In a matter of fact, that would be the EXACT opposite of what I'm going for. The Philippines should be proud of being Filipino, but too many people are turning back and they WANT the Philippines to be a little Spain, and they want to bring Spanish back and bring it as the first language. This is ridiculous. There's a reason why the Filipino forefathers fought for Filipino independence. Because we are FILIPINO not Spanish. Yes, the language is peppered with Spanish words which are mostly pidginized. Also, we have MUCH more of the neighboring language groups in our vernacular: MOSTLY Malaysian, Chinese, Indonesian, Arabic, and more recently, English. It's already bad enough the Filipino forefathers fought so bravely for an independent Philippines, and now a lot of its people want to revert back to being Spanish, and then the corrupt government leaders took over to serve them themselves and not the people.

Interesting points, but to be perfectly honest even to the point of saying it is pehaps a bad thing. FILIPINOS GENERALLY LIKE BEING DISTINGUISHED FROM ALL OTHER ASIATIC-PACIFIC PEOPLES BY HAVING THAT UNIQUE HISPANIC ELEMENT IN THEIR CULTURAL MAKE-UP. It may not be as big an influence as Chinese, Malayo-Polynesian, Austonesian, or whatever, but it's the one that defines us best, and this goes whether we are conscious of it or not.

I mean we can only hate the fact because it is true, and there isn't much we can do about it. Let's face it, this is the truth at the core of the Filipino identity. The more we ignore or try to deny it, the more confused we become.

When we think of the founding fathers of Filipino nationalism...Rizal, Mabini, the Luna Brothers, etc., you simply don't imagine loin cloths and kulintangs. Instead, the images they conjure are of gentlemen in western clothes with their elegant moustaches, their expert fencing skills, their polite Castillan manners, and the beauty of their nationalist prose mostly set in the language of Cervantes, even our most celebrated artworks which express the ultimate creative genius of the Filipino mind such as the "Spoliarium"! These things are subconsciously transmitted into the psyche of even the most guarded ethnocentric pinoy kulturalista, AND WE LOVE IT AS MUCH AS WE DENY IT.

Chinese is of interest EVERYWHERE because of its growing economic authority - whether you like it or not. It's better not to stay in denial. Even in the United States, Chinese schools and languages courses are sprouting up EVERYWHERE. I never said the Chinese should take over. It would be a good political move for the Philippines to receive economic partnership with China - which has stemmed for thousands of years. This partnership would enormously benefit the Philippines, and it would also help rehash the former Filipino-Chinese cultural ties that once existed before Spain took over. China is a HUGE economic (among other traits) power growing before our eyes. However, I never said it should take over the Philippines. That would be even worse. The Philippines is its own nation rich without its own beautiful history. It would be wise, however, to take advantage of it and cooperate with China.

Now, if you've ever taken history you would also know about the Sinosphere. Yes, those characteristics that you quoted me on are inherently Asian, but that's BECAUSE OF the Sinospheric circle of incluence. It's known as the Chinese Cultural/East Asian Cultural Sphere. It characterizes the group of countries around the China or with a big Chinese sub-population that have lived through years of heavy Chinese cultural influence. China's rich history dates back the longest and it has enriched the cultures of the nations surrounding it. You can not deny that Korea and Japan and Vietnam and Taiwan and MALAYSIA (a big Filipino ancestor) even the Philippines etc. have not endured great cultural exchange and development through China. These traits of shared Filipino-Chinese cultural are inherently Asian, but they belong under the Sinosphere influence.

Yes, the Chinese element should be celebrated and given its due contributions into that "amalgam" of what is known as "The Filipino Culture". But it does not voluntarily "sink in" just as well as the Castillan one.

The thing is it's the Spanish who conquered the Philippines not the Chinese. Filipinos (rightly or wrongly) have a much greater social respect for those who have conquered them through military prowess, and Filipinos readily admire a fierce warrior tradition, even if it's that of the enemy. There's the thought that..."at least the Castillians faced Filipinos in the field of battle, whereas the Chinese only immigrated."

You can even see that among the more aristocratic Filipino-Chinese who like to have the "Don" appended to their names ex. "Don" Henry Sy. Jose Rizal himself is an example of the ultimate "Hispanized-Chino". Even today, affluent Filipino-Chinese families tend to exhibit more of the traditional Castillian upbringing and are less keen on looking up to traditional Chinese values as the ideal.

. The 333 years of Spanish colonial past is only a SLICE of Filipino history that ended a hundred years ago. It's over now, the Philippines no longer belongs to the Western Spanish empire.).

well, 300 years is still a big slice. and a memorable mouthful to just simply put it aside.


.
I would also like to say - on a side note - that there's nothing better than an open mind. Take what is good, keep what is yours, and leave what is bad (all in good ethics of course).

so let's have an open mind!:) let's all take these outside influences to our advantage and mix them with the very best of our own.

Interesting points, but to be perfectly honest even to the point of saying it is pehaps a bad thing. FILIPINOS GENERALLY LIKE BEING DISTINGUISHED FROM ALL OTHER ASIATIC-PACIFIC PEOPLES BY HAVING THAT UNIQUE HISPANIC ELEMENT IN THEIR CULTURAL MAKE-UP. It may not be as big an influence as Chinese, Malayo-Polynesian, Austonesian, or whatever, but it's the one that defines us best, and this goes whether we are conscious of it or not.

I mean we can only hate the fact because it is true, and there isn't much we can do about it. Let's face it, this is the truth at the core of the Filipino identity. The more we ignore or try to deny it, the more confused we become.

When we think of the founding fathers of Filipino nationalism...Rizal, Mabini, the Luna Brothers, etc., you simply don't imagine loin cloths and kulintangs. Instead, the images they conjure are of gentlemen in western clothes with their elegant moustaches, their expert fencing skills, their polite Castillan manners, and the beauty of their nationalist prose mostly set in the language of Cervantes, even our most celebrated artworks which express the ultimate creative genius of the Filipino mind such as the "Spoliarium"! These things are subconsciously transmitted into the psyche of even the most guarded ethnocentric pinoy kulturalista, AND WE LOVE IT AS MUCH AS WE DENY IT.



Yes, the Chinese element should be celebrated and given its due contributions into that "amalgam" of what is known as "The Filipino Culture". But it does not voluntarily "sink in" just as well as the Castillan one.

The thing is it's the Spanish who conquered the Philippines not the Chinese. Filipinos (rightly or wrongly) have a much greater social respect for those who have conquered them through military prowess, and Filipinos readily admire a fierce warrior tradition, even if it's that of the enemy. There's the thought that..."at least the Castillians faced Filipinos in the field of battle, whereas the Chinese only immigrated."

You can even see that among the more aristocratic Filipino-Chinese who like to have the "Don" appended to their names ex. "Don" Henry Sy. Jose Rizal himself is an example of the ultimate "Hispanized-Chino". Even today, affluent Filipino-Chinese families tend to exhibit more of the traditional Castillian upbringing and are less keen on looking up to traditional Chinese values as the ideal.

yes that is true, most Filipinos prefer the Spanish / Caucasian looks. We prefer western culture than chinese looks or culture. Even Filipinos with part Chinese blood mixed prefer the Spanish looks and culture.

Only those Filipino-Chinese with 100 percent Chinese blood prefer the Chinese looks, culture, close ties with China etc.

^^imo, this so-called preference shouldn't come at the expense of the other. it is in our best interest to get the best of both cultures, historical ties, geographical proximity and work them to our economic development and other national endeavors.

Many filipinos want the keep the hispanic heritage because our hispanic culture is an iberian european culture which by standards being european is superior to being chinese and other asian culture. Which makes a difference and provides uniqueness that separates us from other asians.

Now this is what you called a disturbing if not confusing opinions about cultures. :ohno:

very disturbing indeed. it's a hitler way of thinking. :ohno:

^^i hope TJ doesn't initiate a cyber racial cleansing here!:lol:

I say that because in china, many chinese are digging into western looks many of them just spend all their life saving just to get an operation to make their nose and eyes look more western even breaking the bones on their legs just to get taller. There might be a lot of hispanic looking people getting into asian anime(japanese) and cosplay etc but not to the extended they get an operation to look like an asian anime character fictional or IRL character btw. :lol:

So this why i say that western/european culture still has somewhat a superior influence in almost all cultures much it is like a stardard model because of western media and western power dominating the world for the past 500 years or so.

spanish and chinese in philippines must learn to accept they are filipino live like filipino if they segregate themselves like how the spanish lived in intramuros then lets better kick them out of this country.

very disturbing indeed. it's a hitler way of thinking. :ohno:

No, In our case it's the complete opposite of the "hitler way" of thinking but maybe just as bad.

I say that because in china, many chinese are digging into western looks many of them just spend all their life saving just to get an operation to make their nose and eyes look more western even breaking the bones on their legs just to get taller. There might be a lot of hispanic looking people getting into asian anime(japanese) and cosplay etc but not to the extended they get an operation to look like an asian anime character fictional or IRL character btw. :lol:

So this why i say that western/european culture still has somewhat a superior influence in almost all cultures much it is like a stardard model because of western media and western power dominating the world for the past 500 years or so.

You're equating racial features with culture. Those people probably want to improve their looks by having more western features, but it doesn't equate to them recognizing that European culture is superior.

You better read the history books so you'll know that China resisted European culture which in their eyes was inferior to theirs. China was also more technologically advanced and had products which had a big market in Europe. This is basic history, and that's the reason why we have Intramuros and had the Manila-Acapulco Galleon trade. The products these galleons shipped were Chinese products. And if you want to question that fact, we have records in the National Museum along with numerous artifacts from galleon wrecks.

You talk about "many Filipinos wanting to keep their hispanic heritage" when we hardly feel any Spanish influence anymore. That's why we have these Heritage Conservation societies to preserve the artifacts and to remind us of the Spanish influences we have. Our present culture is way more American than Spanish or Chinese, that's why there are movements and societies to remind us of our history so that we wouldn't feel so "lost" and forget our heritage.

No, In our case it's the complete opposite of the "hitler way" of thinking but maybe just as bad.

No, i was talking about tj's statement that europeans are SUPERIOR than asians. it's like hitler saying "the aryans are SUPERIOR than any other race."

^^

We have a lot of problems in the distribution of land which can be traced back to our colonial past.

Add to the fact that the 1935 Constitution, which lasted until 1971 during the early years of Marcos, stated that:

"...the disposition, exploitation, development, and utilization of all agricultural, timber, and mineral lands of the public domain, waters, minerals, coal, petroleum, and other mineral oils, all forces of potential energy, and other natural resources of the Philippines, and the operation of public utilities, if open to any person, be open to citizens of the United States and to all forms of business enterprises owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by citizens of the United States in the same manner as to, and under the same conditions imposed upon, citizens of the Philippines or corporations or associations owned or controlled by citizens of the Philippines."

I guess we really have no one else to blame but ourselves (I'm being sarcastic here, just in case somebody doesn't get it again), what path did we take? Ah yes, democracy. Maybe we should blame Tita Cory (R.I.P.) for restoring democracy in our country.

Yea, you never explicitly said turning the Philippines into a little China but everything else you mentioned in all your posts are heavily slanted towards that end. Again, having trade and cultural influences from China does not make us predominantly Chinese in flavour, nor any single one of our neighbours. We are our own people now, just Filipinos.

How eerie [highlights in red]. Gee, I do dabble in history from time to time. Had you ever heard of the Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere? That was the handiwork of the Empire of Japan at its height during the war. It had Japanese agents running all over the place to achieve that. Do we see a repeat of history but this time with Chinese agents running the show? Boy, what will the Uighurs and the Tibetans say about all this? After all, they too have their own proud history [albeit crushed under the Chinese boot]. Is that what is in store for the Philippines? :ohno:

I didn't say turn the Philippines into a little China. I said don't do that. I also said don't turn the Philippines into a little Spain either. So many people want to turn the Philippines into a little Spain. You can see how I back this up in what I wrote before. Unless I have to type it again because everyone evidently misses everything I say.

I'm for being friends with Spain, but yes, I'm more slanted towards being friends with our east Asian neighbors. I'm really surprised this makes sense to no one. Asia = home of the world's fastest growing economies (they also WANT to invest and help their Filipino neighbor), Some people in these threads/those who talk about white supremacy (literally ... which I find offensive) = want to NOT take part in help form their neighbors.

The part you highlighted in red, what makes that so eerie? It really isn't. Haven't you noticed how the countries that surround China all have similar cultural elements? They (included we ... not to the same extent as other countries like Korea, Japan, Vietnam etc.) traded with China for so long all of our cultures developed together. China just happens to be the biggest of all the countries, and it made a lot of contributions to the cultural trade. Don't you notice similarities in language/religion/eating utensils/basic elements of culture. This has been going on for thousands of years. It's nothing new, and it's certainly nothing scary. That's the Sinosphere. There's nothing scary about a truth. You're only burying your head in the sand if you really think that East Asians have similarities with one another. Are you scared that Europeans also have similarities with one another too? That's all what I'm talking about. It's nothing that complicated or frightening.

Is this really common sense? P.S. The Japanese empire is over. If you haven't noticed the Japanese people are very kind and polite, and they don't hate Filipinos. I just took a trip and stopped in Japan, and I have Japanese friends in college. They love visiting the Philippines, and they find us very nice too. So stop being so hostile about something that happened about 70 years ago. It's really stubborn. As much of an atrocity as it was, it's over, and you're not doing much by holding a grudge for something that didn't even happen during your generation. I never said I like China either. I don't like their lack of human rights and pretty much a lot of things they do. But what I did say is that it would be wise for the Philippines to refit itself into the economic prosperity that Greater East Asia is experiencing. This great economic prosperity is undeniably spearheaded by China, Japan, South Korea and Singapore. If you haven't noticed, these countries SURROUND you to the West, North and South. They have no interest in taking you over. Unlike Tibet and maybe Taiwan, China has no interest in colonizing the Philippines. You'd know if they did. They would want to reabsorb Taiwan and Tibet, however, because these nations used to be part of China, and for the most part they want to reunite these countries into China because they're mostly composed of Chinese people. The Philippines is not mostly Chinese in composition, and it was never a part of China. It was, however, part of Asia until a select few bunch wanted to start wagging their tails of slight Spanish ethnicity in front their East Asian neighbor's faces. That's rude and stubborn. You should be proud that you do have some mix of Western blood in you, but stop showing it off. No one likes a show off.

However, the Philippines is caught in the middle of the Greater East Asian economic period of prosperity, and it's neighbors want to invest in it, so why must you all try so hard to stick out and show how much better you are? Do you all really need to be self righteous and brag about how a little Iberian blood in our racial composition makes us better than the rest of East Asia? The Philippines is and will forever be part of East Asia. LOOK at the poll. 83% like to claim their stakes to being Asian. Prove it. So, play in the same game, and be a team player! Are some of you really that racist that you need to show it off to the rest of your fellow Asian neighbors about how you got slightly tipped to the west because of Spanish colonization? Congratulations, you did. It also did nothing for you in benefit. You can accept this fact that a dose of Spanish blood gave the Filipino race an added extra flavor, but be noble about it. People already know now. They will respect you more for being modest.

yes, you said this:



and this:



so what is it really? at least kami mas klaro mi sa among mga gipangyawyaw kay kabalo mi unsay language ug unsay dialect. kung dialect pa ni, sige daw kung kasabot ba ka ani? you never mentioned any language except tagalog because you wanna make people think the rest is but a dialect. so prove it. how dialect are the languages you claimed to be dialects.


I cleared this in the last post I made, okay ??? I corrected myself saying Tagalog is the NATIONAL language. I want to emphasize Tagalog because it is the NATIONAL language of the Philippines. I recognize it might not be the first for all of you, but it's a language that undoubtedly all Filipinos need to know. I referred to the rest as dialects because they weren't the national language. I TAKE THAT BACK, OK? That's not the point of my argument! I already said the other languages of the Philippines are languages! Get over this now. I'm not arguing with you anymore because I don't disagree with you. So move on.

I think the "superiority" some Filipinos feel over other Asians comes from their adeptness in the English language, which in our case comes from the Americans.

Aren't we forgetting the impact of the Americans on our culture? I think American influence replaced a lot of the Spanish influence in our culture, so much so that we have to have Heritage Conservation societies just to remember our past.

This thread wouldn't even be in English if we still had a lot of Spanish influence in our culture. Culture is spread through language and we have more affinity with the Americans than with the Spaniards.

The part you highlighted in red, what makes that so eerie? It really isn't. Haven't you noticed how the countries that surround China all have similar cultural elements? They (included we ... not to the same extent as other countries like Korea, Japan, Vietnam etc.) traded with China for so long all of our cultures developed together. China just happens to be the biggest of all the countries, and it made a lot of contributions to the cultural trade. Don't you notice similarities in language/religion/eating utensils/basic elements of culture. This has been going on for thousands of years. It's nothing new, and it's certainly nothing scary. That's the Sinosphere. There's nothing scary about a truth. You're only burying your head in the sand if you really think that East Asians have similarities with one another. Are you scared that Europeans also have similarities with one another too? That's all what I'm talking about. It's nothing that complicated or frightening.

Is this really common sense? P.S. The Japanese empire is over. If you haven't noticed the Japanese people are very kind and polite, and they don't hate Filipinos. I just took a trip and stopped in Japan, and I have Japanese friends in college. They love visiting the Philippines, and they find us very nice too. So stop being so hostile about something that happened about 70 years ago. It's really stubborn. As much of an atrocity as it was, it's over, and you're not doing much by holding a grudge for something that didn't even happen during your generation. I never said I like China either. I don't like their lack of human rights and pretty much a lot of things they do. But what I did say is that it would be wise for the Philippines to refit itself into the economic prosperity that Greater East Asia is experiencing. This great economic prosperity is undeniably spearheaded by China, Japan, South Korea and Singapore. If you haven't noticed, these countries SURROUND you to the West, North and South. They have no interest in taking you over. Unlike Tibet and maybe Taiwan, China has no interest in colonizing the Philippines. You'd know if they did. They would want to reabsorb Taiwan and Tibet, however, because these nations used to be part of China, and for the most part they want to reunite these countries into China because they're mostly composed of Chinese people. The Philippines is not mostly Chinese in composition, and it was never a part of China. It was, however, part of Asia until a select few bunch wanted to start wagging their tails of slight Spanish ethnicity in front their East Asian neighbor's faces. That's rude and stubborn. You should be proud that you do have some mix of Western blood in you, but stop showing it off. No one likes a show off.Strange, have you no inkling of the implications of those highlights? Greater East Asia Sphere? As it was during the Japanese occupation so it shall be under the Chinese boot. And who will be top banana in those spheres, NEVER was it the Filipinos. It was either Japanese or Chinese, all you’re trying to do is erode our collective consciousness as a nation in this vainglorious attempt at a Pan Asian Kumbaya. Yes, the first intro is a denial at turning us into little Chinas but the rest of the paragraph sings of nothing but praises and hosannas to the People’s Republic. You would willingly cede our economic patrimony to the People’s Republic for the proverbial 30 pieces of silver?

Those highlights in red signifies a considerable loss of autonomy, patrimony, becoming more and more dependent on Chinese economic hegemony. The most Chinese influenced Southeast Asian state – Vietnam, is not even that too enthused in rushing headlong into the dragon’s embrace. It’ll just choke the little nation off. Maybe loss of the Spratleys too, but oh well what are a few li’l islands as a token for Pan Asian Kumbaya.

I can speak volumes of Japanese “politeness”, though it hasn’t dawned on you yet of this duplicity in their culture. They can bow all they want, speak softly all they want. But underneath is something else. The sons of Nippon had developed the art of double speak and if you really looked closely, they actually DO believe in their own superiority against all the other gaijin. At a drinking bout with 4 Japs, they told me that they have nursery rhymes and schoolboy songs telling of little stones they need to kick around –little stones referring to the Koreans. The Japs were never contrite nor sorry enough for their atrocities – this deeply embedded superiority in their own bushido culture. Atrocities at Nanjing, Singapore, etc.. only Filipinos can be so forgiving as to forget how Manila was flattened to the ground by the Nips just for the sake of this warm embrace of North Asians.

Yes, we can be team players in the economic realm, why not? But as a matter of racial fact, we are NOT North Asians. We are southeast Asians, our racial brethren are the Austronesians of Malaya, Indonesia, Madgascar, Oceania et al. We are brown, we ain’t yellow nor white. We are as brown as the bumiputras. We have more cultural affinity on the Asian indigenous front with our Southeast Asian neighbours. We are not mainlanders, but rather we are maritime southeasterners.

It was, however, part of Asia until a select few bunch wanted to start wagging their tails of slight Spanish ethnicity in front their East Asian neighbor's faces. That's rude and stubborn. You should be proud that you do have some mix of Western blood in you, but stop showing it off. No one likes a show off.
However, the Philippines is caught in the middle of the Greater East Asian economic period of prosperity, and it's neighbors want to invest in it, so why must you all try so hard to stick out and show how much better you are? Do you all really need to be self righteous and brag about how a little Iberian blood in our racial composition makes us better than the rest of East Asia? The Philippines is and will forever be part of East Asia. LOOK at the poll. 83% like to claim their stakes to being Asian. Prove it. So, play in the same game, and be a team player! Are some of you really that racist that you need to show it off to the rest of your fellow Asian neighbors about how you got slightly tipped to the west because of Spanish colonization? Congratulations, you did. It also did nothing for you in benefit. You can accept this fact that a dose of Spanish blood gave the Filipino race an added extra flavor, but be noble about it. People already know now. They will respect you more for being modest. Were you talkin’ to me, dude? Where on earth did that come from? Since when had I ever invoked Spanish ethnicity in any of my bloody posts on this egotistical thread? (IMSCF is certainly not one of my favourites) :lol:

Were you talkin’ to me, dude? Where on earth did that come from? Since when had I ever invoked Spanish ethnicity in any of my bloody posts on this egotistical thread? (IMSCF is certainly not one of my favourites) :lol:

No, not all you, I just used your quote because I wanted to reply to you quoting me etc etc. I was also using "You" instead of using "one" or "you guys" in my writing. This gets awfully confusing. My bad. Give me a minute to reply to the other posts. I have a lot to do. >_<

Strange, have you no inkling of the implications of those highlights? Greater East Asia Sphere? As it was during the Japanese occupation so it shall be under the Chinese boot. And who will be top banana in those spheres, NEVER was it the Filipinos. It was either Japanese or Chinese, all you’re trying to do is erode our collective consciousness as a nation in this vainglorious attempts at a Pan Asian Kumbaya. Yes, the first intro is a denial at turning us into little Chinas but the rest of the paragraph sings of nothing but praises and hosannas to the People’s Republic. You would willingly cede our economic patrimony to the People’s Republic for the proverbial 30 pieces of silver?

Those highlights in red signifies a considerable loss of autonomy, patrimony, becoming more and more dependent on Chinese economic hegemony. The most Chinese influenced Southeast Asian state – Vietnam, is not even that too enthused in rushing headlong into the dragon’s embrace. It’ll just choke the little nation off. Maybe loss of the Spratleys too, but oh well what are a few li’l islands as a token for Pan Asian Kumbaya.

I can speak volumes of Japanese “politeness”, though it hasn’t dawned on you yet of this duplicity in their culture. They can bow all they want, speak softly all they want. But underneath is something else. The sons of Nippon had developed the art of double speak and if you really looked closely, they actually DO believe in their own superiority against all the other gaijin. At a drinking bout with 4 Japs, they told me that they have nursery rhymes and schoolboy songs telling of little stones they need to kick around –little stones referring to the Koreans. The Japs were never contrite nor sorry enough for their atrocities – this deeply embedded superiority in their own bushido culture. Atrocities at Nanjing, Singapore, etc.. only Filipinos can be so forgiving as to forget how Manila was flattened to the ground by the Nips just for the sake of this warm embrace of North Asians.

Yes, we can be team players in the economic realm, why not? But as a matter of racial fact, we are NOT North Asians. We are southeast Asians, our racial brethren are the Austronesians of Malaya, Indonesia, Madgascar, Oceania et al. We are brown, we ain’t yellow nor white. We are as brown as the bumiputras. We have more cultural affinity on the Asian indigenous front with our Southeast Asian neighbours. We are not mainlanders, but rather we are maritime southeasterners.

Well, you're trying a little to hard in your writing. If you haven't noticed, this Chinese boot hasn't ever tried to recolonize the Philippines. The so called top-banana that you refer to was the Philippines 30 years ago. If you didn't notice, the Philippines used to be one of the FOUR ASIAN TIGERS. Economic decline and political corruption has eroded this title and made the country crumble down to sadly ... the third world.

Did I ever try to "erode the collective consciousness of the Filipino" as a nation? DID I EVER ONCE MENTION THAT? How many times do I have to reiterate the point that the Philippines should always put their country first. Never Spain, Never China, Never Japan, The Philippines. Do I have to attach a little voice memo in this post saying, ALWAYS PUT THE PHILIPPINES FIRST?

And stop writing with a thesaurus. You can say proud instead of vainglorious ... praises and hosannas? Why don't I just write a hymn to our glorious father China. Bring your writing down to a more realistic level. It's getting to be quite comical. You think I'm praising China? You think I want to "cede economic patrimony for 30 pieces of silver?" Get real. You should never "cede economic patrimony" for anything. A nation - any nation - and it's culture is priceless, and money can place no value on it. This is the point I've been trying to make ever since my first post, when I've been trying to eliminate the lingering colonial (coupled with racist) attitude some people have, "I think the Philippines should speak Spanish. I hate Tagalog. We're better than China cause we have some Spanish blood." If you try to even debate me on this point, you are stepping way out of your bounds. These attitudes I run into are: hopeless, spiteful and racist. A lot of people like to hold their heads up high because Spain added some flavor to Filipino blood, but all they can do is boast and not be modest. Who's being the better person?

Back to the Chinese boot. When did I EVER say, surrender our economy to China. Did I EVER once mention that? No. The Philippines needs to cooperate with its Asian neighbors. Must I pull out a map and show you the strategic location of the Philippines? Do I have to show you where it is in Asia and all of the countries that surround it, which are not against it but are investing in it? And what problem do you have with joining the "Pan-Asian Kumbaya." Do you want to join the "Pan-European Kumbaya." You're not European, and you're not American, so you're wasting your time. Did you ever learn about cooperation in grade school? Did you ever realize that these neighboring Asian countries have been your cultural brethren for the longest time? They still are. Brothers fight from time to time, but are you going to hold an ancient grudge and leave those who have been with you for the longest time? The Filipino heritage is a mix of many Asian nations (yes with some Spanish) and surprisingly you refuse to cooperate with them? Don't you see what a horrible mistake this is? I never said SUBMIT yourself to them. But refusing to join them is certainly not the way to go. You're already one of them - an Asian that is - so why not contribute. Why not join this period of economic growth for your country? Notice how I will say - DON'T BECOME A COLONY OF ANYONE. Got it? Don't argue with me anymore about say, well he said that we should become China's colony and we should sell our country ... blah blah putting words in my mouth. NO. I'm saying, learn their languages and become a player in East Asia. Prove that the Philippines can gain the title of one of the Four Tigers once again.

Some Japanese are racist, some South Koreans are racist, some Chinese are racist, and obviously here some Filipinos are racist. But not ALL of them are racist. Just because you here of a few stories from the select few, you automatically believe that they're all racist. Such a lack of judgement on your part. You are obviously not being the better person by only joining the cess pool of racism and hatred. Go ahead, hate the Japanese, hate the South Koreas, hate the Chinese. Do as you wish. Don't join the time period of East-Asian growth of prosperity. See where it gets you. China, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam ... etc. they are all of your biggest trading partners and they are the chief investors in the Philippines. Are you going to sacrifice this hand of help/brotherhood for your remaining last ounce of bitter pride, or will you be the better person? Are you going to join the few racist people in this world and continue a battle that will never end?

You also need to understand the history of South Korea and Japan. I don't support past down generations of unnecessary racism. I also don't support racism in general. But if you'd know what conflicts they've had with each other including numerous years of war, and the present debate over 독도/獨島 (Dok-Do/Takeshima) island ... whatever you want to call it. You'd know they aren't naturally racist people, but when it comes to their past some still use the symbol of this island. Some still do hold a grudge, and it's hard for them to forget. They've had a very tumultuous past. However, they are certainly not ALL like that - not even the majority. And you shouldn't be either. I hang out with a lot of (legit - not SK or Japanese-Americans) South Koreans and Japanese all the time. They don't hate each other, and I've never seen them ONCE being spiteful to each other because of race. They like how they share a common culture in food, music, some language, and customs. On a broader scale, they are both big trading partners, they're both working together to work with the difficult DPRK, and they're also big cultural exchange partners. See how even the most bitter of enemies can learn to accept each other? Must you generalize a whole population on the select few? Must you continue to refuse your neighbors for no apparent reason? Are you honestly that impressionable that you think Asia will colonize the Philippines? Where are you pulling such deep rooted antagonism?

I didn't say turn the Philippines into a little China. I said don't do that.

They have no interest in taking you over. Unlike Tibet and maybe Taiwan, China has no interest in colonizing the Philippines. You'd know if they did. They would want to reabsorb Taiwan and Tibet, however, because these nations used to be part of China, and for the most part they want to reunite these countries into China because they're mostly composed of Chinese people. The Philippines is not mostly Chinese in composition, and it was never a part of China. .

Not a part of China really, but Peoples Republic of China is claiming the whole South China including our Kalayaan Islands Group and our oil-gas producing areas of Palawan as part of China.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-claims3.gif



http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-taiwan.jpg



http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-china1-1.jpg

^^^^ Thanks, Avenger! I needed those visuals... Fantastic.And stop writing with a thesaurus. You can say proud instead of vainglorious ... praises and hosannas? Why don't I just write a hymn to our glorious father China. Bring your writing down to a more realistic level. It's getting to be quite comical. You think I'm praising China? You think I want to "cede economic patrimony for 30 pieces of silver?" Get real. You should never "cede economic patrimony" for anything. A nation - any nation - and it's culture is priceless, and money can place no value on it. This is the point I've been trying to make ever since my first post, when I've been trying to eliminate the lingering colonial (coupled with racist) attitude some people have, "I think the Philippines should speak Spanish. I hate Tagalog. We're better than China cause we have some Spanish blood." If you try to even debate me on this point, you are stepping way out of your bounds. These attitudes I run into are: hopeless, spiteful and racist. A lot of people like to hold their heads up high because Spain added some flavor to Filipino blood, but all they can do is boast and not be modest. Who's being the better person? :hilarious Stick to what's ON this thread, brotha. There you go again, now why are these Spanish sangre's bein posted at my doorstep again? It makes viewers think I'm the guilty party. (highlights in blue)Oh boulderdash! I'm already scared out of my wits I'm turning blue! :lol:

Bring my writing down to a WHAT level? But that's how I write. :lol: And no, I actually don't need a thesaurus because I am naturally fluent in British English. That's what we use in Singapore, after all. I can also use Hicksville English if I want to, but then again, only on certain people.

You needn't worry too much about the European nor American Kumbaya because I never ever mentioned that. Again, we are Austronesians. We are not mainlanders, although nobody's stopping anyone from doing cultural and economic exchanges with our neighbours. But we value Merdeka! :)

Not a part of China really, but Peoples Republic of China is claiming the whole South China including our Kalayaan Islands Group and our oil-gas producing areas of Palawan as part of China.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-claims3.gif



http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-taiwan.jpg



http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/south-china-sea-china1-1.jpg

Islands fights in such vague/gray areas exist everywhere. Over 48 countries have claims to islands in this area. The Philippines and China aren't the only members, by the way. So don't turn this into your own personal antagonism. The PRC is being assertive. I'm not saying the Philippines shouldn't be either. They have their rights to the islands that they own. There are claims to islands everywhere on every continent. Even Russia and Denmark have one. I'm not saying the Chinese government isn't being stubborn about this (or stubborn in general - but then again, there is no perfect government. I'm not giving China any support though.), but island claims is completely different from just taking over the Philippines. It's a completely different comparison. China will not colonize the Philippines. It has zero claim to the Philippines. There's nothing to the Chinese-Filipino past that they can bring up to say that the Philippines belongs to them. You really can't equate the two. Both are sovereign nations, and China isn't making a claim to the Philippines as its colony. The PRC, however, isn't letting this island-dispute cloud over its view of trading and investing in the Philippines like you are though. This isn't stopping them, and this isn't making them antagonistic and spiteful towards the Philippines.

Don't let territorial disputes cloud your perception of colonization. South Korea and Japan dispute over Dok-do, but do you see any of them making outrageous claims and threats to colonize the other? No. This isn't equatable.

^^^^ Thanks, Avenger! I needed those visuals... Fantastic. :hilarious Stick to what's ON this thread, brotha. There you go again, now why are these Spanish sangre's bein posted at my doorstep again? It makes viewers think I'm the guilty party. (highlights in blue)Oh boulderdash! I'm already scared out of my wits I'm turning blue! :lol:

Bring my writing down to a WHAT level? But that's how I write. :lol: And no, I actually don't need a thesaurus because I am naturally fluent in British English. That's what we use in Singapore, after all. I can also use Hicksville English if I want to, but then again, only on certain people.

You needn't worry too much about the European nor American Kumbaya because I never ever mentioned that. Again, we are Austronesians. We are not mainlanders, although nobody's stopping anyone from doing cultural and economic exchanges with our neighbours. But we value Merdeka! :)

Sorry, well I just finished a 4 credit writing English writing course, and if anything stuck out to me the most, it was: keep your writing concise and clear. Don't cloud it with unnecessarily big words. Hicksville, English? Sigh.

My point is the Philippines should stop trying to stick out and hold its head so high over its neighbors with a snooty attitude. I don't see HK doing it about Britain, I don't see Vietnam doing it about France, I don't see Indonesia doing it about the Netherlands ... etc. And ... just read what I read in my last long post. I have to study Organic Chem. :bash:

Neither the Japanese nor the Taiwanese are mainlanders as well, but have you seen how they will always associate themselves with Asia? Get as specific as you want. You can call yourself an Austronesian, but an East Asian is still an East Asian.

^^^^ But to us from the British Commonwealth States, 'tis quite as crystal clear as can be... :lol:

I was about to say that the origins of the word "Hick" was coined by New Yorkers in reference to out-of-towners from waaaay out west of town... or so the urban legends go.. :) I'm sure you ought to know that.

Islands fights in such vague/gray areas exist everywhere. Over 48 countries have claims to islands in this area. The Philippines and China aren't the only members, by the way. So don't turn this into your own personal antagonism. The PRC is being assertive. I'm not saying the Philippines shouldn't be either. They have their rights to the islands that they own. There are claims to islands everywhere on every continent. Even Russia and Denmark have one. I'm not saying the Chinese government isn't being stubborn about this (or stubborn in general - but then again, there is no perfect government. I'm not giving China any support though.), but island claims is completely different from just taking over the Philippines. It's a completely different comparison. China will not colonize the Philippines. It has zero claim to the Philippines. There's nothing to the Chinese-Filipino past that they can bring up to say that the Philippines belongs to them. You really can't equate the two. Both are sovereign nations, and China isn't making a claim to the Philippines as its colony. The PRC, however, isn't letting this island-dispute cloud over its view of trading and investing in the Philippines like you are though. This isn't stopping them, and this isn't making them antagonistic and spiteful towards the Philippines.

Don't let territorial disputes cloud your perception of colonization. South Korea and Japan dispute over Dok-do, but do you see any of them making outrageous claims and threats to colonize the other? No. This isn't equatable.

but these topic of PRC's creeping invasions of South China Islands is also corrupting our Pinoy national leaders and worst .... apparently they have sold already to China our national interest and some territory.


ybz8M1TRc6o


9KYrTXK2pKE

but these topic of PRC's creeping invasions of South China Islands is also corrupting our Pinoy national leaders and worst .... apparently they have sold already to China our national interest and some territory.


ybz8M1TRc6o


9KYrTXK2pKE


Yeah, things have changed since these news reels were made over a year ago ...

"Still, China was adamant that the Philippines was claiming its territories in the Spratlys, particularly Huangyan Island and the Nansha Islands. Gonzales said the Chinese protest could be considered a form of diplomatic “posturing.” Historical documents indicate that Huangyan Island has been part of China since the Yuan Dynasty (1271 to 1368), despite its geographical vicinity to the Philippine shore. In his visit to the presidential palace to present credentials on Wednesday morning, new Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Liu Jianchao told Philippine President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo that China considers the Philippines a key neighbor and attaches great importance to the China-Philippines relations. " - That was written in May.

You really can't be too sure can you? I'm not sticking up for China at all, either. I'm just trying to show that China isn't trying to take over the Philippines. They're being territorial about they're "lands" too. Don't let this get in the middle of friendship either. They're not.

^^

We have a lot of problems in the distribution of land which can be traced back to our colonial past.

Add to the fact that the 1935 Constitution, which lasted until 1971 during the early years of Marcos, stated that:

"...the disposition, exploitation, development, and utilization of all agricultural, timber, and mineral lands of the public domain, waters, minerals, coal, petroleum, and other mineral oils, all forces of potential energy, and other natural resources of the Philippines, and the operation of public utilities, if open to any person, be open to citizens of the United States and to all forms of business enterprises owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by citizens of the United States in the same manner as to, and under the same conditions imposed upon, citizens of the Philippines or corporations or associations owned or controlled by citizens of the Philippines."

I guess we really have no one else to blame but ourselves (I'm being sarcastic here, just in case somebody doesn't get it again), what path did we take? Ah yes, democracy. Maybe we should blame Tita Cory (R.I.P.) for restoring democracy in our country.

True. We inherited a lot of problems from colonial times upon achieving independence and among and so did the many countries that used to be under colonial ruled like the U.S. The only problem with the U.S. after replacing Britain as the Superpower at the end of WW2 was that the U.S. was dominating the world under the benevolent cloak of democracy. The post war era the U.S. claimed that they were spreading democracry and liberating countries from colonial master Like England, France and Spain but underneath it they were spreading democracy and liberating countries away from these European colonizer only so that they can dominate thier economy and internal affair like what the European had done before them only things difference was that countries are no longer under colonial ruled with each countries had their own form of government all in the so called neocolonialism hiding in the form of democracy.

This is all in the name of black gold (oil), they've even made deals with blacklisted governments in Africa just to get oil.

Their fishermen also regularly poach our waters for resources we work so hard to protect. There was a news report before where a Chinese vessel was caught by the Philippine Navy and lo and behold, there were hundreds of turtles (pawikan) that the vessel captured in our waters, sayang. :ohno:

The Spratlys and the Sabah thing pisses me off actually. If the Chinese are gonna use the history argument for the Spratlys then we have the same argument as well for Sabah. Geopolitics is a complicated thing, I just hope the younger generation will continue the fight just as we are right now.

just ask US to nuke china = problem solved not our problem but also their problem. Less population in an instant, hahah :D :lol:
i hate china, kahit umaasenso na sila tuloy parin ang pag pasok ng mga illegal immigrants nila dito taking up local jobs and setting up illegal businesses that ruin our markets.

just ask US to nuke china = problem solved not our problem but also their problem. Less population in an instant, hahah :D :lol:

You always do seem to have the ... better ideas. :bash:

Sorry if these have been posted before.

Alejandro Gómez Maganda, was governor of the state of Guerrero (1951-1954).
Maganda, for those who don't know, means beautiful in Tagalog.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Alejandro_Gomez_Maganda.jpg/225px-Alejandro_Gomez_Maganda.jpg

The Mongoy sisters. An ancestor was a military commander during the 1810 independence form Spain, Francisco Mongoy. The Mongoy family is very sizeable in Coyuca.

http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2007/spmar07/filipinos.jpg


I am hoping someone in Mexico can find and scan a picture of a painting or statue of General Isidoro Montes de Oca. He is also of Filipino descent. There is a municipality named after him, along with streets that bear his name. However, I think it's a longshot, him being a "chinito".

Filipino Table Manners

Arrive 15 to 30 minutes later than when invited for a large party.
Compliment the hostess on the house.
Wait to be asked before moving into the dining room or helping yourself to food.
Wait to be told where to sit. There may be a seating plan.
The head of the household, usually the father, or the guest of honour is usually seated at the head of the table.
It is polite to wait for the host to invite you to start eating before doing so.
When one is offered by the host to try some food, refusing to consume the food offered is considered highly offensive.
Meals are often served family-style or buffet-style where you serve yourself.
A fork and spoon are the typical eating utensils. The fork is held in the left hand and is used it to guide food, especially rice, to the spoon held in the right hand. The fork, if no knife is available, may be used to slice foods, although some frown upon this.
Whether one should leave a small amount of food on the plate or consume all of the food is actually a matter of personal preference.
Light burping after a meal is acceptable.
Burping also may be used as an excuse when one is full.

^^ Filipinos are family centered.we have a culture that we dine together..

^^

We have a lot of problems in the distribution of land which can be traced back to our colonial past.

Add to the fact that the 1935 Constitution, which lasted until 1971 during the early years of Marcos, stated that:

"...the disposition, exploitation, development, and utilization of all agricultural, timber, and mineral lands of the public domain, waters, minerals, coal, petroleum, and other mineral oils, all forces of potential energy, and other natural resources of the Philippines, and the operation of public utilities, if open to any person, be open to citizens of the United States and to all forms of business enterprises owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by citizens of the United States in the same manner as to, and under the same conditions imposed upon, citizens of the Philippines or corporations or associations owned or controlled by citizens of the Philippines."

I guess we really have no one else to blame but ourselves (I'm being sarcastic here, just in case somebody doesn't get it again), what path did we take? Ah yes, democracy. Maybe we should blame Tita Cory (R.I.P.) for restoring democracy in our country.

Provisions such as these in the 1935 constitution could not be helped, we were still a U.S. commonwealth at the time right up to the immediate post WW2 era in 1946. Such were the conditions the Americans naturally would wish to preserve in exchange for Philippine "Home Rule", otherwise they would not have allowed commonwealth status with the undertstanding that the "commonwealth" was a 10-year preparatory period prior to complete independence.

My point is that the Filipinos could simply revise the 1935 constitution at the end of the 10 year term of the Philippine commonwealth, by 1946 when it becomes a Philippine republic. Maayos yung gawa ni Manuel Quezon, it was a fair enough plan with no monkey business intended.

ANG PROBLEMA, INABUTAN TAYO NG GUERRA SA WW2.

-We also had to fight in WW2 on the side of the Americans, after all Filipinos were still U.S. nationals, and the Philippines was still a U.S. commonwealth.

-We had to fight WW2 because the Japanese attacked the Philippines, and we were invaded under a brutal Japanese occupation.

-After the liberation, the Philippine economy was ruined, its cities destroyed, the population starved etc.

So it's easy to see that since the U.S. was the only country in any position to aid in the post war reconstruction of the Phiippines after 1946, the "neo-colonial" and "pro-American" economic provisions of the 1935 constitution could not be bothered without serious and adverse consequences.

We sometimes think of the British and how nicely and "fairly" they handled their colonial disengagement of India. But then India was relatively intact, it was not bombed, its cities were untouched by war nor suffered Japanese occupation. Gandhi and Nehru did not need British help for any post war reconstruction, nor did the bankrupt British have any money left to spare anyway.

BUT EVEN SO, THE PHILIPPINES WAS ABLE RISE UP TO A RESPECTABLE LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT AND INDUSTRIALIZATION IN 1950s and 1960s, WE WERE SECOND ONLY TO JAPAN, WE WERE ABOVE INDIA AND BETTER OFF THAN ALL OF OUR SOUTHEAST ASIAN NEIGHBORS.

As it shows, it's even Marcos pala who first bothered at all to alter the 1935 constitution.

What the hell happened? It is obvious that there became a socio-political degeneration that cannot be so easily dismissed as a product of neocolonialism.

^^ Ahh....but how much of that practice has been eroded with the advent of the microwave. Because these days, we can avail of hot meals with nuking the food if you have no time to eat together at the same table at the same time. ;)

This is all in the name of black gold (oil), they've even made deals with blacklisted governments in Africa just to get oil.

Their fishermen also regularly poach our waters for resources we work so hard to protect. There was a news report before where a Chinese vessel was caught by the Philippine Navy and lo and behold, there were hundreds of turtles (pawikan) that the vessel captured in our waters, sayang. :ohno:

The Spratlys and the Sabah thing pisses me off actually. If the Chinese are gonna use the history argument for the Spratlys then we have the same argument as well for Sabah. Geopolitics is a complicated thing, I just hope the younger generation will continue the fight just as we are right now. Fact of the matter is, anyone shown Avenger's maps will clearly see that the Spratleys are within the sphere of the Southeast Asian nations of the Philippines, Brunei and the Malaysian State of Sarawak. Only those with the IQ's of goats will continually deny this simple fact and hand it over to their masters like the stooges that they really are. :lol:

But yet, our Northern neighbours continue their pressure to get a stranglehold on those islands. Plus behold! We have Benedict Arnolds and Vidkun Quislings amongst us.

If the grabbing of real estate by the Celestial Empire was done by claims to ancient history, then what will become of these new studies of a kingdom "kuno" named Lushong-Dao (Luzon) with a capital of Tung-Do (Tondo). Add to that Sok-bu (Sugbu, Cebu). Voila! 2/3 of the Philippines will go the way of Taiwan? Holy Toledo, Holy cow... ay mali. Holy Tibet nga pala... :lol:

We sometimes think of the British and how nicely and "fairly" they handled their colonial disengagement of India. But then India was relatively intact, it was not bombed, its cities were untouched by war nor suffered Japanese occupation. Gandhi and Nehru did not need British help for any post war reconstruction, nor did the bankrupt British have any money left to spare anyway. Not. The British were chiefly responsible for the dismemberment of the old India into a West AND East Pakistan versus India. Ceylon also spun off to become Sri Lanka. Later on India plotted against both Pakistans and engineered a secession of East Pakistan to become Bangladesh. Until now, Pakistan and India remain locked in nuclear rivalry.

maybe it's just my regionalistic pride that won't allow me to be bend :ohno:
but seriously i don't like other filipino languages except my native one it's because maybe i have a natural dislike against them. lolol :lol:

There is no crime and moral obligations to be your roots first and foremost. It's just right to be bisaya first before being filipino because it is what we truely are. I both agree with mercato's statement with regards to being bisaya first but I also happen to agree with marites. Learning tagalog since it should not threaten the existance of other regionalistic languages or alter one's regionalistic identity just because they learn how to speak the national language. On the otherhand, not being able to learn the national language should not be critisized especially if it's out of their convinience and accessibility. Somehow ofcourse, just like what has been mentioned many times before, regional languages and literature should also be given an equal importance to preserve it.

A comment to Astruino. Learning our past or your words were actually" relearning our past" can be achieved even without really having to learn the spanish language, it's proper education using a different mediums or languages, it's an added bonus if those who are interested can learn spanish because it can be use for something else such as job market, tourism and trade. It is very debatable if we base learning our past with the spanish language as a sole tool for reeducating our people or teaching the youths about our past. We can learn the world literature using any of our languages and it's as equally as effective right?

just ask US to nuke china = problem solved not our problem but also their problem. Less population in an instant, hahah :D :lol:
i hate china, kahit umaasenso na sila tuloy parin ang pag pasok ng mga illegal immigrants nila dito taking up local jobs and setting up illegal businesses that ruin our markets.

I guess you just have to be a bit more welcoming somehow. What you mentioned can be compared on how SOME americans or even Canadians are resenting the influx of immigrants in their countries, simply because, they think it's taking away jobs from them. It does not matter if it is legal or illegal. This should not affect one's identity or perhaps can be considered as threat to our economy because most of the time, it provides job to our less fortunate filipinos who can't afford to leave their families and work overseas.

Filipino Table Manners

Arrive 15 to 30 minutes later than when invited for a large party.
Compliment the hostess on the house.
The head of the household, usually the father, or the guest of honour is usually seated at the head of the table.
Meals are often served family-style or buffet-style where you serve yourself.
Light burping after a meal is acceptable.


Changes in table manners and party celebration.


Late guests are sometimes ahead of time than the celebrant or hosts.

Guests sometimes whisper to other guests ~"How can they afford this big house?"

The head of household, usually the father is on another house of his mistress.

Guests sometimes seat on the table where the foods are placed for a buffet style.

Not only burping but throwing up because of being full or being drunk is acceptable.


:lol:

I want to add more:

Kapag dumating, nahihiya pa, pero kapag nalasing, nakakahiya na. :lol:

Not. The British were chiefly responsible for the dismemberment of the old India into a West AND East Pakistan versus India. Ceylon also spun off to become Sri Lanka. Later on India plotted against both Pakistans and engineered a secession of East Pakistan to become Bangladesh. Until now, Pakistan and India remain locked in nuclear rivalry.

Yes, but that's already an "internal" problem caused by ethnic and religious divisions within British India which long existed even before the British took over. The "partition" may not have been the wish of the Indian Congress Party or even Lord Mountbatten who was the last British viceroy of India, but it certainly was the ardent wish of Muhammad Ali Jinnah and his muslim followers.

Kung baga, the situation in the Indian subcontinent prior to the British colonization mirrored that of the pre-hispanic Philippine archipelago. India was already divided into many petty kingdoms, sultanates, and rajahs. It's the same with the Philippines. Only the common yoke of the western colonial power put these lands together under one political union.

But these are not really my point. What I was saying was that upon independence, there was really no "rider bill" written into either the modern Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, or Ceylonese constitutions designed specifically at preserving the economic priviledges of British citizens in those countries in a manner as previously enjoyed when they were still British colonies. The British really no longer had the muscle to impose them, nor did the newly independent countries formerly under British rule really need it. It was not like the situation the Philippines had at the end of WW2.

I guess you just have to be a bit more welcoming somehow. What you mentioned can be compared on how SOME americans or even Canadians are resenting the influx of immigrants in their countries, simply because, they think it's taking away jobs from them. It does not matter if it is legal or illegal. This should not affect one's identity or perhaps can be considered as threat to our economy because most of the time, it provides job to our less fortunate filipinos who can't afford to leave their families and work overseas.

No, actually it would be the more sane policy of not only keeping the Chinese mainlanders out, but to encourage their voluntary repatriation. There's already more than enough Chinese in the Philippines. If we must have more foreigners immigrating, I'd allow more Koreans, Japanese and other southeast asians in order to balance the mix and help destroy Chinese held monopolies by providing them with an equally rapacious set of new competitors.

Fact of the matter is, anyone shown Avenger's maps will clearly see that the Spratleys are within the sphere of the Southeast Asian nations of the Philippines, Brunei and the Malaysian State of Sarawak. Only those with the IQ's of goats will continually deny this simple fact and hand it over to their masters like the stooges that they really are. :lol:

But yet, our Northern neighbours continue their pressure to get a stranglehold on those islands. Plus behold! We have Benedict Arnolds and Vidkun Quislings amongst us.
If the grabbing of real estate by the Celestial Empire was done by claims to ancient history, then what will become of these new studies of a kingdom "kuno" named Lushong-Dao (Luzon) with a capital of Tung-Do (Tondo). Add to that Sok-bu (Sugbu, Cebu). Voila! 2/3 of the Philippines will go the way of Taiwan? Holy Toledo, Holy cow... ay mali. Holy Tibet nga pala... :lol:

a DPA now operational :)

may I add that on that ancient China's map of xx Dynasty where they based their claim on Spratly islands and KIG, it also mentioned that the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines is a part of that ancient Chinese kingdom kuno.

Why not they start claiming the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines and not only those South China Sea islands since PRC claims is based on that ancient map from the celestial kingdom kuno.


Many of these claims to sovereignty come directly from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People’s Republic of China and cite works such as "Records of Rarities" also known as "Exotic Things" which also describes foreign lands and fantastical creatures such as mermaids, bringing the validity of the source into question.[38] There is also doubt as to whether these sources state a claim of sovereignty or simply mention the Spratlys alongside other foreign lands.

Claims of pottery being found are mostly shipwrecked treasure from Chinese Galleons that sailed through the area and did not necessarily come from anyone who inhabited or even visited the islands.[37]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands#Basis_for_PRC.27s_and_ROC.27s_claims


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/1947_South_China_Sea_Islands_Map.jpg


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/414px-1947_Nanhai_Zhudao.png

Beijing's sovereignty claims in the South China Sea are far-reaching and may cover as much as 80 percent of the whole area. It is the only claimant state that will have the military strength to enforce its title, although the cost to its relations with the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations and major users of the South China Sea, such as the U.S., Japan and South Korea, could be high.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20090315a3.html

No, actually it would be the more sane policy of not only keeping the Chinese mainlanders out, but to encourage their voluntary repatriation. There's already more than enough Chinese in the Philippines. If we must have more foreigners immigrating, I'd allow more Koreans, Japanese and other southeast asians in order to balance the mix and help destroy Chinese held monopolies by providing them with an equally rapacious set of new competitors.

That would be hard to do and unrealistic. Most of the businesses that provide jobs to filipinos are owned by the filipino chinese. Chosing one race over the others can't be considered a balanced mix and would not break all these monopolies. Koreans can also recreate the same thing. I believe it is happenning now somehow. Filipinos never learn from the past, it seems like we miss having someone who oppress us. We seems to allow it to happen to us. Our only major resort is to leave the country and migrate elsewhere half of the time. I can see with all these migration of the chinese , Korean and Indians in the Philippines and with filipinos migrating overseas would forever change the filipino identity if not , lose it completely.

^^ How much of that assumption is by how he dresses? ;)

I think it's the facial feature more or less and then the way he dresses. If I would see him out in the street, I would assume he is part asian and part black with a more stronger asian feature.

The girl looks like she is from Kazakhstan, a former Soviet Republic or state. One of my friends whom I also considered Russian since they all speaks Russians to one another with my Latvian friend.

Beijing's sovereignty claims in the South China Sea are far-reaching and may cover as much as 80 percent of the whole area. It is the only claimant state that will have the military strength to enforce its title, although the cost to its relations with the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations and major users of the South China Sea, such as the U.S., Japan and South Korea, could be high.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20090315a3.html
I agree. It is interesting to note that the PROC is also building up a considerable blue water navy which is way out of proportion to its needs within the South China Sea, the Straits of Taiwan and the Sea of Japan.

I remember this episode on Nat Geo and also this article on Asian Geographic about the adventures of the greatest Chinese Admiral Zheng He.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

Between 1405 and 1433, the Ming government sponsored a series of seven naval expeditions. Emperor Yongle designed them to establish a Chinese presence, impose imperial control over trade, and impress foreign peoples in the Indian Ocean basin. He also might have wanted to extend the tributary system.

Zheng He was placed as the admiral in control of the huge fleet and armed forces that undertook these expeditions. Zheng He's first voyage consisted of a fleet of around 300 ships[9][10] (other sources say 200)[11] holding almost 28,000 crewmen. These were probably mainly large six-masted ships - it is now thought that the large and flat nine-masted "treasure ships" were probably river ships used by the Emperor.[11]

Zheng He's fleets visited Arabia, East Africa, India, Indonesia and Thailand (at the time called Siam), dispensing and receiving goods along the way.[10] Zheng He presented gifts of gold, silver, porcelain and silk; in return, China received such novelties as ostriches, zebras, camels, ivory and giraffes.[10][12][13]

Zheng He generally sought to attain his goals through diplomacy, and his large army awed most would-be enemies into submission. But a contemporary reported that Zheng He "walked like a tiger" and did not shrink from violence when he considered it necessary to impress foreign peoples with China's military might. He ruthlessly suppressed pirates who had long plagued Chinese and southeast Asian waters. He also intervened in a civil disturbance in order to establish his authority in Ceylon, and he made displays of military force when local officials threatened his fleet in Arabia and East Africa. From his fourth voyage, he brought envoys from thirty states who traveled to China and paid their respects at the Ming court.

In 1424, the Yongle Emperor died. His successor, the Hongxi Emperor (reigned 1424–1425), decided to curb the influence at court. Zheng He made one more voyage under the Xuande Emperor (reigned 1426–1435), but after that Chinese treasure ship fleets ended. Zheng He died during the treasure fleet's last voyage. Although he has a tomb in China, it is empty: he was, like many great admirals, buried at sea.[14]

Zheng He, on his seven voyages, successfully relocated large numbers of Chinese Muslims to the nascent Malacca, which became a large international trade center (entrepot).[citation needed]

Zheng He led seven expeditions to what the Chinese called "the Western Ocean" (Indian Ocean). He brought back to China many trophies and envoys from more than thirty kingdoms — including King Alagonakkara of Ceylon, who came to China to apologize to the Emperor.

The records of Zheng's last two voyages, which are believed to be his farthest, were unfortunately destroyed by the Ming emperor. Therefore it is never certain where Zheng has sailed in these two expeditions. The traditional view is that he went as far as Iran.

There are speculations that some of Zheng's ships may have traveled beyond the Cape of Good Hope. In particular, the Venetian monk and cartographer Fra Mauro describes in his 1459 Fra Mauro map the travels of a huge "junk from India" 2,000 miles into the Atlantic Ocean in 1420. What Fra Mauro meant by 'India' is not known and some scholars believe he meant an Arab ship.[16] However, Professor Su Ming-Yang thinks "the ship is European, as it is fitted with a crow’s nest, or lookout post, at the masthead, and has sails fitted to the yards, unlike the batten sails of Chinese ships."[17]

Zheng himself wrote of his travels:

We have traversed more than 100,000 li (50,000 kilometers or 30,000 miles) of immense water spaces and have beheld in the ocean huge waves like mountains rising in the sky, and we have set eyes on barbarian regions far away hidden in a blue transparency of light vapors, while our sails, loftily unfurled like clouds day and night, continued their course [as rapidly] as a star, traversing those savage waves as if we were treading a public thoroughfare… — Tablet erected by Zheng He, Changle, Fujian, 1432. Louise Levathes

1st Voyage-----1405-1407----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Aru, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Kollam, Cochin, Calicut

2nd Voyage-----1407-1409----- Champa, Java, Siam, Cochin, Ceylon

3rd Voyage-----1409-1411----- Champa, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Quilon, Cochin, Calicut, Siam, Lambri, Kaya, Coimbatore, Puttanpur

4th Voyage-----1413-1415----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Cochin, Calicut, Kayal, Pahang, Kelantan, Aru, Lambri, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden, Muscat, Dhufar

5th Voyage-----1416-1419----- Champa, Pahang, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Sharwayn, Cochin, Calicut, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden

6th Voyage-----1421-1422----- Hormuz, East Africa, countries of the Arabian Peninsula

7th Voyage-----1430-1433----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Calicut, Hormuz... (17 states in total)

************

Indeed, 17 states in total. Now, out of curiousity, where is any part of the Philippines in the 7 equations above??? If the Philippines is stressing its own self importance (Ta - pinagpipilitan ang sarili) in the trade routes of ancient times, thence why is that the Ming Dynasty didn't even bother to stop by any part of the Philippines? Food for thought. The most likely answer is that the Philippines in the 1400s was nothing more than a collection of islands and wilderness. Aight people? The Philippines was non-existent, nothing but mountains, forests and seas.

I want to add more:

Kapag dumating, nahihiya pa, pero kapag nalasing, nakakahiya na. :lol:

Naka attend na ako ng kasal when both father of the groom and bride are both drunk. :lol:

Riot talaga sa handaan or more of a comedy dahil naglulupasay yung dalawa sa dance floor , parang dance competition ng mga lasheng.... :lol:

There is no crime and moral obligations to be your roots first and foremost. It's just right to be bisaya first before being filipino because it is what we truely are. I both agree with mercato's statement with regards to being bisaya first but I also happen to agree with marites. Learning tagalog since it should not threaten the existance of other regionalistic languages or alter one's regionalistic identity just because they learn how to speak the national language. On the otherhand, not being able to learn the national language should not be critisized especially if it's out of their convinience and accessibility. Somehow ofcourse, just like what has been mentioned many times before, regional languages and literature should also be given an equal importance to preserve it.

A comment to Astruino. Learning our past or your words were actually" relearning our past" can be achieved even without really having to learn the spanish language, it's proper education using a different mediums or languages, it's an added bonus if those who are interested can learn spanish because it can be use for something else such as job market, tourism and trade. It is very debatable if we base learning our past with the spanish language as a sole tool for reeducating our people or teaching the youths about our past. We can learn the world literature using any of our languages and it's as equally as effective right?

I agree with your second point. I really disagree with those who want Spanish to be the national language too. That's worse that relearning about your past, that's BECOMING your past. If you want to sacrifice the national language of the Philippines, a genuine Filipino creation of all cultures that were ever present in the Philippines, you truly have no allegiance to your country.

Your first paragraph, however, raises a few issues. You should be proud of what region you come from, without a doubt. Each region made significant contributions to Filipino culture. However, do you really see the future of the Philippines going anywhere if intense regionalism is allowed to run its course? This is a big problem. Do you really think a nation so divided will be successful? Do you really think everyone will cooperate in the government someday if Bisayans and Kapamapangans and Bikolanos and Ilocanos etc. refuse to cooperate because they let regionalism cloud their mind of what's better for the country? Eventually it'll promote loyalty for one's region instead of love for country. Each region should be treated equally, and everyone should respect eachother's region, but most of all, love for one's country should come first. In the end, everyone's Filipino. It's nearly impossible for a nation to thrive if it's so divided. Look at the American Civil war. The United States was almost split in two because of regionalism.

We should not base criticism of learning the national language on the individual but on the government. The government should always be open for criticism. That's what keeps a republic/democracy healthy. Education should be made easily accessible to all individuals from all walks of life. It's truly a must and a God-given right. Even if Universal education is non-existent, it should be given top priority. Learning fluency in the National Language of your OWN country without a doubt should be top priority in the education system as well.

I really won't be able to contribute as much anymore since I'm getting really busy now in college, but I'll do as best as I can to stay active.

1st Voyage-----1405-1407----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Aru, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Kollam, Cochin, Calicut

2nd Voyage-----1407-1409----- Champa, Java, Siam, Cochin, Ceylon

3rd Voyage-----1409-1411----- Champa, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Quilon, Cochin, Calicut, Siam, Lambri, Kaya, Coimbatore, Puttanpur

4th Voyage-----1413-1415----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Cochin, Calicut, Kayal, Pahang, Kelantan, Aru, Lambri, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden, Muscat, Dhufar

5th Voyage-----1416-1419----- Champa, Pahang, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Sharwayn, Cochin, Calicut, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden

6th Voyage-----1421-1422----- Hormuz, East Africa, countries of the Arabian Peninsula

7th Voyage-----1430-1433----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Calicut, Hormuz... (17 states in total)

************

Indeed, 17 states in total. Now, out of curiousity, where is any part of the Philippines in the 7 equations above??? If the Philippines is stressing its own self importance (Ta - pinagpipilitan ang sarili) in the trade routes of ancient times, thence why is that the Ming Dynasty didn't even bother to stop by any part of the Philippines? Food for thought. The most likely answer is that the Philippines in the 1400s was nothing more than a collection of islands and wilderness. Aight people? The Philippines was non-existent, nothing but mountains, forests and seas.

“During the rule of the Sungs (960-1127 AD), Arab traders brought Philippine goods to southwestern China through the port of Canton. Chinese colonies were simultaneously established in the coastal towns of the Philippines with the import of Chinese goods. The trade was climaxed when Chao Ju-Kua (http://www.yehey.com/news/print.aspx?id=116184) wrote of the barter trade between the Chinese and the natives of Mayi (Mindoro). The Chinese exchanged their silks, porcelain, colored glass, beads and iron ware with the hemp cloth, tortoise shells, pearls and yellow wax of the early Filipinos.”

1st Voyage-----1405-1407----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Aru, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Kollam, Cochin, Calicut

2nd Voyage-----1407-1409----- Champa, Java, Siam, Cochin, Ceylon

3rd Voyage-----1409-1411----- Champa, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Quilon, Cochin, Calicut, Siam, Lambri, Kaya, Coimbatore, Puttanpur

4th Voyage-----1413-1415----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Cochin, Calicut, Kayal, Pahang, Kelantan, Aru, Lambri, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden, Muscat, Dhufar

5th Voyage-----1416-1419----- Champa, Pahang, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Lambri, Ceylon, Sharwayn, Cochin, Calicut, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Brawa, Malindi, Aden

6th Voyage-----1421-1422----- Hormuz, East Africa, countries of the Arabian Peninsula

7th Voyage-----1430-1433----- Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Calicut, Hormuz... (17 states in total)

************

Indeed, 17 states in total. Now, out of curiousity, where is any part of the Philippines in the 7 equations above??? If the Philippines is stressing its own self importance (Ta - pinagpipilitan ang sarili) in the trade routes of ancient times, thence why is that the Ming Dynasty didn't even bother to stop by any part of the Philippines? Food for thought. The most likely answer is that the Philippines in the 1400s was nothing more than a collection of islands and wilderness. Aight people? The Philippines was non-existent, nothing but mountains, forests and seas.

No, not alright. Are you sure you're Filipino? This is by far the weirdest - and almost uniformed for that matter - statement I've seen in a while. The Philippines was only islands and wilderness in the 1400's?? Aside from the poster above me ...

Let's say people have been in the Philippines since 4000 B.C.

"Starting 4000-2000 BC Austronesian groups descended from Yunnan Plateau in China and settled in what is now the Philippines by sailing using balangays or by traversing land bridges coming from Taiwan. Most of these Austronesians primarily used the Philippines as a pit-stop to the outlying Pacific islands or to the Indonesian archipelago further south. Those who were left behind became the ancestors of the present-day Filipinos."

"Chinese have traded with and settled in Philippines thousands of years before West even knew of this area. In about the 200 BC, there arose a practice of using gold eye covers, and then, gold facial orifice covers to adorn the dead resulting in an increase of ancient gold finds."

"Fragmented ethnic groups established numerous city-states formed by the assimilation of several small political units known as barangay each headed by a Datu or headman (still in use among non-Hispanic Filipino ethnic groups) and answerable to a king, titled Rajah."

"... Even scattered barangays, through the development of inter-island and international trade, became more culturally homogeneous by the 4th century. Hindu-Buddhist culture and religion flourished among the noblemen in this era. Many of the barangay were, to varying extents, under the de-jure jurisprudence of one of several neighboring empires, among them the Malay Sri Vijaya, Javanese Majapahit, Brunei, Melaka empires, although de-facto had established their own independent system of rule. Trading links with Sumatra, Borneo, Thailand, Java, China, India, Arabia, Japan and the Ryukyu Kingdom flourished during this era. A thalassocracy had thus emerged based on international trade. Each barangay consisted of about 100 families ... Each of these big barangays had a population of more than 2,000."

"In the period between the 7th century to the beginning of the 1400s, numerous prosperous centers of trade had emerged, including the Kingdom of Namayan which flourished alongside Manila Bay ... "

"By the 9th century, a highly developed society had already established several hierarchies with set professions: The Datu or ruling class, the Maharlika or noblemen, the Timawa or freemen, and the dependent class which is divided into two, the Aliping Namamahay (Slave) and Aliping Saguiguilid (Serfs)."

Zheng He did have some contact with the Philippines: "Zheng He built Chinese-Muslim communities first in Palembang, then in San Fa (West Kalimantan), subsequently he founded similar communities along the shores of Java, the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines. They propagated the Islamic faith according to the Hanafi school of thought and in Chinese language."

Though his contact wasn't the most provable, that doesn't mean there wasn't a big deal of contact with China in the Philippines before the Spanish conquered. "Originally an Indianized kingdom in the 10th century, Tondo initiated diplomatic ties with China during the Ming Dynasty, and thus became a dominant force in regional trade ... The rise of the Ming dynasty saw the arrival of the first Chinese settlers in the Philippines. They were well received and lived together in harmony with the existing local population — eventually intermarrying with them such that today, numerous Philippine people have Chinese blood in their veins ... Luzon and Tondo thus became a center from which Chinese goods were traded all across Southeast Asia. Chinese trade was so strict that Luzon traders carrying these goods were considered "Chinese" by the people they encountered.

This powerful presence in the trade of Chinese goods in 16th century East Asia was also felt strongly by Japan. The Ming Empire treated Luzon traders more favorably than Japan by allowing them to trade with China once every two years, while Japan was only allowed to trade once every 10 years... Tondo became so prosperous that around the year 1500 AD ..."

Wow look at that, China even favored the Philippines to Japan! Looks like there was A LOT going on even before the 1400's. The Spanish didn't even come until 1570, which is almost 1600, mind you.

The Philippines had a very rich culture before the Spanish came. They traded with the best of the best. They had trading favor with China, and they traded with Malaysians, Indonesians, Arabs and Indians etc. It was MOST definitely NOT wilderness. How could you even say that? That makes me cringe. Are you saying Zheng He was the only one with a boat? Even then, he did have some contact with the Philippines. And to reinforce my point even more, the first decedents of the Philippines in 4000 B.C. as it says above, dates back from CHINA. Oh no! You're not only Asian geographically, but your first ancestors who permanently pushed the aboriginal Negritos up the mountains and settled in the Philippines are Chinese as well! Not to mention this blood eventually got diluted over the next few thousands of years with primarily Malay, Indonesian (Austronesian - as you like to call it) and some Arabic/Indian blood. Only for 300 years during this entire 6000 year span of recordable Filipino history were the Spanish present. And just because the Spanish conquistadors were one of your more recent colonizers, you are somehow still puppeted by them and you continue to give your blind allegiance and credit of the majority Filipino culture to Spain? You also seem to have no faith in the pure untouched-by-western civilization melting pot of culture that existed before that. Besides the fact that I notice a tendency for you to discredit the pure-Filipino culture that once existed and seeing how you like to hand it over to Spanish domination and influence, you even JUST said that the Philippines was wilderness before the 1400's. After 5 and a half thousand years of Eastern culture and development in the Philippines which blended into an amazing Filipino culture (even though the true development really started around 1,000 B.C.), did a short 300 years in comparison of Spanish rule really throw off your frame of mind that much to where you all discredit what happened before the Spanish - even to the point where you think that it DIDN'T EVEN EXIST? And even then so, did their rule offset your frame of mind to a point where you all think you have little connections with your Asian neighbors/ancestors? Do you have to credit the Filipino success to Spain as much as you do after I just proved you false on the fact that the Philippines existed for a LONG time before even the 1400's? It's extremely false. I really see no future argument for you. It doesn't even take a big history lesson to discover basic Filipino-history common knowledge like this.

I guess you just have to be a bit more welcoming somehow. What you mentioned can be compared on how SOME americans or even Canadians are resenting the influx of immigrants in their countries, simply because, they think it's taking away jobs from them. It does not matter if it is legal or illegal. This should not affect one's identity or perhaps can be considered as threat to our economy because most of the time, it provides job to our less fortunate filipinos who can't afford to leave their families and work overseas.

Good post!

Your first paragraph, however, raises a few issues. You should be proud of what region you come from, without a doubt. Each region made significant contributions to Filipino culture. However, do you really see the future of the Philippines going anywhere if intense regionalism is allowed to run its course? This is a big problem. Do you really think a nation so divided will be successful? Do you really think everyone will cooperate in the government someday if Bisayans and Kapamapangans and Bikolanos and Ilocanos etc. refuse to cooperate because they let regionalism cloud their mind of what's better for the country? Eventually it'll promote loyalty for one's region instead of love for country. Each region should be treated equally, and everyone should respect eachother's region, but most of all, love for one's country should come first. In the end, everyone's Filipino. It's nearly impossible for a nation to thrive if it's so divided. Look at the American Civil war. The United States was almost split in two because of regionalism.



We can not just allow other regional languages and identities die right? It would be hard to really promote unity because there are many filipinos who are passionate about their own regionalistic identities first without denying their filipinoness albeit it's more of a second choice which is not necessarily wrong. It would be hard for the filipinos to replicate the american dream of democracy and unity simply because our beliefs and ways are very different from them. I for one has given up to see unity in the Philippines together with the economic progress for the mere fact that I am fully aware that it's hard no matter what language or attempt to unite the filipinos because there is always thiese "negative opinions" that lingers around us. Superficially, we live in harmony but a mere drop of a fuel could ignite huge flame and create conflicts. The filipinos are just really more passionate about something different and foreign that we tend to embrace those rather than our own. This is why we always fail as a nation and is at risk of losing out own identities.

Wow, thanks for your last posts epik ll ian on the issues about the Chinese trades in the Philippines in response to Sir Mercato on non existant Chinese and Native islanders in the Philippines prior to the Spanish colonialism. I think I do remember these in Philipine history books, I mean, not the text books in school only but elsewhere in a national library.

No, not alright. Are you sure you're Filipino? This is by far the weirdest - and almost uniformed for that matter - statement I've seen in a while. The Philippines was only islands and wilderness in the 1400's?? Aside from the poster above me ...

Let's say people have been in the Philippines since 4000 B.C.

"Starting 4000-2000 BC Austronesian groups descended from Yunnan Plateau in China and settled in what is now the Philippines by sailing using balangays or by traversing land bridges coming from Taiwan. Most of these Austronesians primarily used the Philippines as a pit-stop to the outlying Pacific islands or to the Indonesian archipelago further south. Those who were left behind became the ancestors of the present-day Filipinos."

"Chinese have traded with and settled in Philippines thousands of years before West even knew of this area. In about the 200 BC, there arose a practice of using gold eye covers, and then, gold facial orifice covers to adorn the dead resulting in an increase of ancient gold finds."

"Fragmented ethnic groups established numerous city-states formed by the assimilation of several small political units known as barangay each headed by a Datu or headman (still in use among non-Hispanic Filipino ethnic groups) and answerable to a king, titled Rajah."

"... Even scattered barangays, through the development of inter-island and international trade, became more culturally homogeneous by the 4th century. Hindu-Buddhist culture and religion flourished among the noblemen in this era. Many of the barangay were, to varying extents, under the de-jure jurisprudence of one of several neighboring empires, among them the Malay Sri Vijaya, Javanese Majapahit, Brunei, Melaka empires, although de-facto had established their own independent system of rule. Trading links with Sumatra, Borneo, Thailand, Java, China, India, Arabia, Japan and the Ryukyu Kingdom flourished during this era. A thalassocracy had thus emerged based on international trade. Each barangay consisted of about 100 families ... Each of these big barangays had a population of more than 2,000."

"In the period between the 7th century to the beginning of the 1400s, numerous prosperous centers of trade had emerged, including the Kingdom of Namayan which flourished alongside Manila Bay ... "

"By the 9th century, a highly developed society had already established several hierarchies with set professions: The Datu or ruling class, the Maharlika or noblemen, the Timawa or freemen, and the dependent class which is divided into two, the Aliping Namamahay (Slave) and Aliping Saguiguilid (Serfs)."

Zheng He did have some contact with the Philippines: "Zheng He built Chinese-Muslim communities first in Palembang, then in San Fa (West Kalimantan), subsequently he founded similar communities along the shores of Java, the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines. They propagated the Islamic faith according to the Hanafi school of thought and in Chinese language."

Though his contact wasn't the most provable, that doesn't mean there wasn't a big deal of contact with China in the Philippines before the Spanish conquered. "Originally an Indianized kingdom in the 10th century, Tondo initiated diplomatic ties with China during the Ming Dynasty, and thus became a dominant force in regional trade ... The rise of the Ming dynasty saw the arrival of the first Chinese settlers in the Philippines. They were well received and lived together in harmony with the existing local population — eventually intermarrying with them such that today, numerous Philippine people have Chinese blood in their veins ... Luzon and Tondo thus became a center from which Chinese goods were traded all across Southeast Asia. Chinese trade was so strict that Luzon traders carrying these goods were considered "Chinese" by the people they encountered.

This powerful presence in the trade of Chinese goods in 16th century East Asia was also felt strongly by Japan. The Ming Empire treated Luzon traders more favorably than Japan by allowing them to trade with China once every two years, while Japan was only allowed to trade once every 10 years... Tondo became so prosperous that around the year 1500 AD ..."

Wow look at that, China even favored the Philippines to Japan! Looks like there was A LOT going on even before the 1400's. The Spanish didn't even come until 1570, which is almost 1600, mind you.

The Philippines had a very rich culture before the Spanish came. They traded with the best of the best. They had trading favor with China, and they traded with Malaysians, Indonesians, Arabs and Indians etc. It was MOST definitely NOT wilderness. How could you even say that? That makes me cringe. Are you saying Zheng He was the only one with a boat? Even then, he did have some contact with the Philippines. And to reinforce my point even more, the first decedents of the Philippines in 4000 B.C. as it says above, dates back from CHINA. Oh no! You're not only Asian geographically, but your first ancestors who permanently pushed the aboriginal Negritos up the mountains and settled in the Philippines are Chinese as well! Not to mention this blood eventually got diluted over the next few thousands of years with primarily Malay, Indonesian (Austronesian - as you like to call it) and some Arabic/Indian blood. Only for 300 years during this entire 6000 year span of recordable Filipino history were the Spanish present. And just because the Spanish conquistadors were one of your more recent colonizers, you are somehow still puppeted by them and you continue to give your blind allegiance and credit of the majority Filipino culture to Spain? You also seem to have no faith in the pure untouched-by-western civilization melting pot of culture that existed before that. Besides the fact that I notice a tendency for you to discredit the pure-Filipino culture that once existed and seeing how you like to hand it over to Spanish domination and influence, you even JUST said that the Philippines was wilderness before the 1400's. After 5 and a half thousand years of Eastern culture and development in the Philippines which blended into an amazing Filipino culture (even though the true development really started around 1,000 B.C.), did a short 300 years in comparison of Spanish rule really throw off your frame of mind that much to where you all discredit what happened before the Spanish - even to the point where you think that it DIDN'T EVEN EXIST? And even then so, did their rule offset your frame of mind to a point where you all think you have little connections with your Asian neighbors/ancestors? Do you have to credit the Filipino success to Spain as much as you do after I just proved you false on the fact that the Philippines existed for a LONG time before even the 1400's? It's extremely false. I really see no future argument for you. It doesn't even take a big history lesson to discover basic Filipino-history common knowledge like this.


Interesting history.

BUT though the Malay race came from Yunnan China, it does not mean that all ancient people or prehistoric people that settled or passed in the land now called China were all Chinese.

Also I reckoned that the ancestors of the Malay race stop-over for a few years in Yunnan from their travel from East Africa the original place where human race came from. So the brief stop-over in Yunnan is just a part of the story of the peopling of the earth.

Who knows during the prehistoric time, that place called Yunan is not part of present China. :)


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/yunnan.jpg


I have a copy of National Geographic's story of the peopling of the earth and I will post here later.

Interesting history.

BUT though the Malay race came from Yunnan China, it does not mean that all ancient people or prehistoric people that settled or passed in the land now called China were all Chinese.

Also I reckoned that the ancestors of the Malay race stop-over for a few years in Yunnan from their travel from East Africa the original place where human race came from. So the brief stop-over in Yunnan is just a part of the story of the peopling of the earth.

Who knows during the prehistoric time, that place called Yunan is not part of present China. :)


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/yunnan.jpg


I have a copy of National Geographic's story of the peopling of the earth and I will post here later.

Interesting point. However, whoever WAS there ... Chinese or not ... was Asian. If you look at the Filipino racial composition, I'm not seeing any African semblance in it. Yes there are Negritos, but they settled there beforehand, and they're not part of the first settlers who pushed them up into the mountains.

My main point here was to dispel Mercato's claim that before the Spanish came, the Philippines was nothing - which is absolutely false.

We can not just allow other regional languages and identities die right? It would be hard to really promote unity because there are many filipinos who are passionate about their own regionalistic identities first without denying their filipinoness albeit it's more of a second choice which is not necessarily wrong. It would be hard for the filipinos to replicate the american dream of democracy and unity simply because our beliefs and ways are very different from them. I for one has given up to see unity in the Philippines together with the economic progress for the mere fact that I am fully aware that it's hard no matter what language or attempt to unite the filipinos because there is always thiese "negative opinions" that lingers around us. Superficially, we live in harmony but a mere drop of a fuel could ignite huge flame and create conflicts. The filipinos are just really more passionate about something different and foreign that we tend to embrace those rather than our own. This is why we always fail as a nation and is at risk of losing out own identities.

Wow, thanks for your last posts epik ll ian on the issues about the Chinese trades in the Philippines in response to Sir Mercato on non existant Chinese and Native islanders in the Philippines prior to the Spanish colonialism. I think I do remember these in Philipine history books, I mean, not the text books in school only but elsewhere in a national library.

Oh yes, I certainly agree with the fact that we can't let regional languages and ethnicity die. They are so integral to the Filipino culture, and they should be preserved at all costs. It would be horrible for these precious regional cultures to die off. They all contributed their own unique aspects to what is truly Filipino. However, some tend to use it as a way to prove they are better than others. Some are completely divided on regions. It pains me to see how divided people are on regions that it's almost like they come from a different country. I remember back in my apartment in Angeles City, there was a group of Visayans who came up to our apartment to continue a fight they had with one of our Kapampangan tenants (It was over a girl, ironic enough as it is haha). The Visayans were on the street yelling up to our tenant in the balcony. They started using their regional Visayan ethnicity as a reason why they're so much better than the Pampangan tenant and that he's nothing compared to them. The Visayans started yelling about how they're better fighters and they Pampangan guy would lose, and the Pampangan guy insisted the same and told them all to get out of the area because they're invading (his) Pampangan territory. They each started yelling about how much better than they are because of where their from. I'm really amazed and thankful no one got hurt. This really created a negative image in my head, however. I thought to myself, this isn't the ideal Philippine society I've always imagined.

My point? We should merit the good sides of regionalism, but we should not let it get in the middle of the true Filipino spirit as a whole. We shouldn't let anyone of them die, but we shouldn't let them get in the middle of national unity either. The interference in national unity based on regions is all to prevalent in the Philippines. Look at what it did in Rwanda! We can only hope it never gets to that scale (I hope it never will).Letting such a spirit get away is only dividing the country further. Treasure the good qualities of each region, but don't let it be the dividing factor of what separates the nation.
What I like to hear is:
"Oh, you want great vegetables? Go to Ilocos or Pangasinan!"
"Oh you want to have great fruit? Go to Bulacan and Davao, they have amazing fruit."
"Would you like to go see the most beautiful islands on the planet? Go south in Visayas, they have beautiful beaches."

I don't like to here this, which I hear more to often than I should:
"Don't go south they're dirty."
"Don't go to the North, they're fickle with their money."
"Those people from that region suck at fighting, we're a lot better." etc etc.
I won't cite any specific examples that I've heard so I don't elicit any uncecessary backlashes. I hear too many negative things about different regions than necessary. I don't like being fake, but maybe this is a case when its necessary. Keep your love for your region in your heart, but don't strut around with it with a sense of overly-inflated pride. When I see people talking about how they should love their region above all else, I can only raise questions because I've seen the antagonism that it creates. It's just not healthy for the country.

It all boils to what I said before about the Philippines cooperating with the rest of its Asian neighbors - except this time it's on a national level. It would be a shame for the Filipino spirit to collapse (I don't think it will) because of this.

You're welcome for the posts! I do what I can :).

Interesting point. However, whoever WAS there ... Chinese or not ... was Asian. If you look at the Filipino racial composition, I'm not seeing any African semblance in it. Yes there are Negritos, but they settled there beforehand, and they're not part of the first settlers who pushed them up into the mountains.

My main point here was to dispel Mercato's claim that before the Spanish came, the Philippines was nothing - which is absolutely false.

I mean if you believe the evolution and the origin of human race according to science.... the first people came from East Africa. The Asians (including Chinese) Caucasians and etc all originated from East Africa.

Of course the Aetas / Negritos came to the Philippines via land bridges and not via Yunnan.

So the Aetas were the original settlers of the Philippine Archipelago and not the Malays nor the Indonesians, and of course not the Chinese either.


*********************************************************


By the way, many Filipinos though mostly not racist were wary of the Chinese hegemony since China is so near, we rather prefer the Western (Spanish) influence or Russians since they can overwhelm us only by culture and not physically overwhelm us. You see what happen in Tibet and in East Turkistan where the native Uighurs were outnumbered by Han Chinese settlers who came to East Turkistan after the 1960s.

Many Filipinos (like me) were already Chinese-looking so what we need now to balance the racial/cultural mix is to re-introduce the Spanish culture and language. Para may class of elegance naman :)

Masyado nang maraming intsik influence mula sa Ongpin gusto mo pang dagdagan :)

I mean if you believe the evolution and the origin of human race according to science.... the first people came from East Africa. The Asians (including Chinese) Caucasians and etc all originated from East Africa.

Of course the Aetas / Negritos came to the Philippines via land bridges and not via Yunnan.

So the Aetas were the original settlers of the Philippine Archipelago and not the Malays nor the Indonesians, and of course not the Chinese either.


*********************************************************


By the way, many Filipinos though mostly not racist were wary of the Chinese hegemony since China is so near, we rather prefer the Western (Spanish) influence or Russians since they can overwhelm us only by culture and not physically overwhelm us. You see what happen in Tibet and in East Turkistan where the native Uighurs were outnumbered by Han Chinese settlers who came to East Turkistan after the 1960s.

Many Filipinos (like me) were already Chinese-looking so what we need now to balance the racial/cultural mix is to re-introduce the Spanish culture and language. Para may class of elegance naman :)

Masyado nang maraming intsik influence mula sa Ongpin gusto mo pang dagdagan :)

Yeah, interesting how some people think they come from Africa, when in fact:

"In spite of their Negroid appearance, all scholars reject the theory that their ancestors came from Africa. Rather, the accepted theory today is that Philippine Negritos are descendants of groups of Homo sapiens who migrated into the Philippines during the Upper Pleistocene from mainland Southeast Asia, and subsequently developed their phenotypic traits in situ, through processes of microevolution, some 25,000 years ago."

Yes, the Aetas are the original settlers.

Interesting point about how the west can only culturally overwhelm us and the east physically. That's true. But at the same time, we should be able to filter western culture. At the same time, it's preventing tourists, and it's diluting our own pure Filipino culture. My friend in Mindanao even talks about how sometimes people tease him for using Tagalog because they use English so much now. If you see what I said earlier, there are some Europeans who don't even want to come to the Philippines because Western culture has diluted it to the point to where they feel like they're not getting the whole cultural experience by visiting our country. Like I said, these opinions have always hurt; because I know there is a true undiluted Filipino culture that is really beautiful in itself.

I'm not saying ignore western culture. I think it's great. Eastern culture is magnificent is as well. There are great merits to both. I just don't want to see Eastern culture die in the Philippines. Eastern culture is what the Philippines was initially founded under, and that's why lots of people want to visit the Philippines. Can you imagine that before Western Civilization came, the Philippines was the crossroads of Asia? The best traders from the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Southeast Asian, Indian and Arab world all came to trade their goods and ideas and cultural elements in the Philippines. These big shaping forces of the Eastern world created this mega culture in the Philippines that captured the best elements and beauty of each one of these cultures! It's evident in our culture today, you can still see remnants of what these countries gave to us today. Can you imagine how beautiful this is? It's an honor almost. The Philippines got the best of the best. No wonder why everyone wanted to settle in the Philippines. The Philippines IS the pearl of the orient sea! Are you willing to throw this away for a little more flare? I'm not!

There are a lot of things I mentioned before that the Philippines used to have before Western civilization diluted it. I was surprised to know that Filipinos used to bow to each other like the Japanese and Koreans. How fun would it be, even in the stores, if the greeters bowed to you and said things like "Tuloy po kayo!" as you entered, just like how they greet you in Japan or Korea? It's a polite gesture, and it would be a neat cultural experience for tourists! It's not even an idea that we're stealing or copying from another country. It used to be uniquely Filipino! It's cool discovering all of these elements of our past that some of us never even knew. It might seem silly now, but they used to be a part of the Philippines. Somehow they got erased. Do you want to see everything else go away too? In my own opinion, I think it would be neat to reintroduce some of these old elements back into our society - the primary and job education sector can handle this. Our country is readily accepting more elements of Western culture than it can preserve what we originally had. For example, it's rare to find authentic Filipino architecture and style being used in current building projects. Pretty soon, what will happen to our own culture? I don't want to see that happen to the Philippines.

Actually, the best thing that the Philippines have is their mixture. They can become an interesting hub attracting investments from either Spain and Latin America, or UK and USA because of the language.

But, nevertheless, the Phils have known how to preserve their unique style, not becoming too westernized as many other places in Asia have done already. They are asian, with hispanic american hints.
It's undeniable that Philippines have good links with the Western, but that's obvious because this islands have been a spanish settlement for 333 years and after that, American free associated State.

They have their languages, their landscapes, their heritage and a great position to commerce with mainland China, Korea, Singapore and Japan.
Also with the emerging Indonesia and Thailand.

They are different, but not strange. That's the great point of Philippines. Perfect to receive investments if they can maintain a good democratic state :yes:

^^ Yes that's proper, no one denies the cultural mix and indeed we should be happy about it

But immigration policy is different. There are already too many people residing in the Philippines. There's no need to fill'er up some more with new batches of foreigners with an eye to staying as permanent residents and eventually becoming citizens.

Democracy is about protecting the rights and preserving equal opportunity from within the national community made up of its citizens. DEMOCRACY HAS NO OBLIGATION TO SECURE THE "IMMIGRATION RIGHTS" OF FOREIGN INDIVIDUALS INTO ITS SOVEREIGN TERRITORY.

There may be some exceptions on humanitarian grounds, such as for reasons of "compassion". ex, immigrants who are trying escape famine, political and/or ethnic persecution, etc., but these are entirely within the discretion of the host nation.

When mainland China became communist in 1949, many Chinese chose to escape and settle into the Philippines, other than just Taiwan or Singapore. It will be noted that they were welcomed with little or no resentment on the part of Filipinos as compared to the violent anti-Chinese racism shown in other lands like Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam.

The wide open living spaces of the 1949 Philippines is markedly different from the overcrowded mess it is today.

Let me ask you these questions:

The Philippines already had its own developing mega culture before the Spanish arrived. To what extent are you willing to dilute our own precious culture at the expense of borrowing more from a culture that we have borrowed a little from but was never purely ours?

Why can't we just flare our culture with what we used to have? Just re-introduce it? We already had our own unique culture that was formed from the best of the East. It was then give a little spice from Spain. However, there are lots of aspects of Filipino culture which have been buried over the past 400 years. And we continue to bury it to this day in hopes of blending in with the west. I don't want to lose our unique culture! In some specific cases, we already have a functioning language that meets the needs of our country. We don't need Spanish to replace it. Right now, bowing might seem weird to you, but it wasn't to our Filipino ancestors! We even used to have our own Nayong Pilipino architecture! We used to have our own last names, way of eating, writing script etc. You could never convince me to sacrifice and sell out more of our already rich culture for more of what we don't need.


Let the Philippines stand out among its neighbors as a country that has had a megaculture from the East that was furthered with some Spanish flare, but don't let it be excluded from its neighbors by being too radically different and western. Sadly, this is what we are too often accused of, and it's costing us. It's costing us our own indigenous culture and tourists. We already had our own unique culture that was a beautiful mix of all the elements of the Eastern world. While still keeping some of what the Spain and the U.S. have given us, let's revive elements of our megaculture that we used to have. It's uniquely ours, and it's not borrowing! That's the best that we can do for our country.

That would be hard to do and unrealistic. Most of the businesses that provide jobs to filipinos are owned by the filipino chinese. Chosing one race over the others can't be considered a balanced mix and would not break all these monopolies. Koreans can also recreate the same thing. I believe it is happenning now somehow. Filipinos never learn from the past, it seems like we miss having someone who oppress us. We seems to allow it to happen to us. Our only major resort is to leave the country and migrate elsewhere half of the time. I can see with all these migration of the chinese , Korean and Indians in the Philippines and with filipinos migrating overseas would forever change the filipino identity if not , lose it completely.

It will be hard to do and unrealistic in view of the global proliferation of insane political correctness.

Filipino-Chinese are to be regarded as Filipinos already. The Philippines is THEIR homeland. Their primary loyalty is expected to be with the Philippines, and any other foreign ethnic or familial ties (as such that may exist) relegated into a poor secondary importance.

Foreign investment is welcome, but that doesn't mean they have to bring over their entire families along to settle permanently. They can just send over their money.

If it's a matter of management, there are many local Filipinos who can the job just as well. As far as cheap manual labor is concerned, the Philippines also has an overabundance of that as well. No need to import that either.

It will be hard to do and unrealistic in view of the global proliferation of insane political correctness.

Filipino-Chinese are to be regarded as Filipinos already. The Philippines is THEIR homeland. Their primary loyalty is expected to be with the Philippines, and any other foreign ethnic or familial ties (as such that may exist) relegated into a poor secondary importance.

Foreign investment is welcome, but that doesn't mean they have to bring over their entire families along to settle permanently. They can just send over their money.

If it's a matter of management, there are many local Filipinos who can the job just as well. As far as cheap manual labor is concerned, the Philippines also has an overabundance of that as well. No need to import that either.

I agree! :)

The Philippines situation at the end of second world war was very different to that of India. The British had been surpassed by the United States of America in term of military and economic power at the end of the war. The internal conflict in the Indian subcontinent was worsening after the ww2 and the British government saw the Independence of India as way out for fighting a costly war they knew they could not possibly win.The British were as happy to see India go rather than entangling itself with India, besides the British had more problem at home during the post war era than dealing with foreign colonies who wanted to be free. In other hand, America a came out untouched by war at home its industry and cities was never damage unlike those in Europe and the Philippines. As the only surviving superpower militarily and economically at the end of the war. America dictated the world of what she would want for the post war era and the world obliged to what America wanted because the world are weak and the U.S. has the capital to rebuilt their ruin economy and industry. As the colonial master for the Philippines, the U.S. had already promised independence before the war. The Philippines will get independence after the war as promised in the pre war era and in exchange for this, rights only available to Filipinos also be made available to American citizen in the country.By asking this America wanted to control the Philippines still after indepence. At first Filipino leaders refused to do so but unless it was passed and made into law by the Filipino congress the U.S. would hold the release of funds for the rebuilding of the post war Philippines economy. Since the Philippines had no capital to rebuilt the post war economy kumapit sila sa patalim at ipinasa yong batas na pantay ang amerikano sa Filipino sa Pilipinas. In the end, the Philippines gets the money for the rebuilding and the American gets what they want by destroying the natural resources of the country. It was seem to be a good deal at the short run but in the long run the Philippines was the loser because the country was never industrialized and only few benefited.

Why can't we just flare our culture with what we used to have? Just re-introduce it? We already had our own unique culture that was formed from the best of the East. It was then give a little spice from Spain. However, there are lots of aspects of Filipino culture which have been buried over the past 400 years. And we continue to bury it to this day in hopes of blending in with the west. I don't want to lose our unique culture! In some specific cases, we already have a functioning language that meets the needs of our country. We don't need Spanish to replace it.

Do you know what globalization is? The world tends to blend in, all together. Of course that there are things from the Filipino culture that nowadays are buried, but this happens in all the countries because the societies evolve.
Philippines already has this asian hint that makes it attractive to the foreigners. And the landscapes, the way to be of the people, the food, the cities, whatever, would always have this hint.
You can see this differences in Europe nowadays. How could it be that the Phils lose this hint? It's impossible. Overprotectionism.

You say that you don't want to see the Philippines melting with the western traditions, but what about the chinese traditions (e.g.), are those more valid because they are asians? The Phils are The Phils.

About the spanish thing.. who said that? Did I?
Philippines has many languages and all should be respected imo, all with the same level of protection. Whether you like it or not, english knowledge is so extensive so it could operate as an official and neutral language for the relationships within the country.
When it comes to spanish, I really think that it's positive to expand the knowledge of it around the country, because it would give more opportunities to the country and the citizens, no matter if they are into Philippines or abroad.

The islands could receive a lot of investments from Latin America, Spain and the anglosaxon world and that's positive because that contribute to create wealth, jobs and enlarge the GDP.
Even, the immigrants could access to more options with the knowledge of the spanish and they would also have more opportunities.
It's not that weird. There are many countries in Europe where the people can speak three languages.
I'm not saying that they should speak them with the level of a native, but at least being understandable by a native with major problems.



Foreign investment is welcome, but that doesn't mean they have to bring over their entire families along to settle permanently. They can just send over their money.

If it's a matter of management, there are many local Filipinos who can the job just as well. As far as cheap manual labor is concerned, the Philippines also has an overabundance of that as well. No need to import that either.

What's the problem with the families of the foreigners that invest in Philippines? They are trying to earn profits and helping the country to develop.
Philippines has many immigrants around the globe and they could be able to meet their families again. It's a normal immigration policy. What's the problem with applying it back?
Don't you know what international relations are? In case you don't have a treaty with a country, the normal acting is to apply the same rule that they are applying to you. Reciprocity, that's it.

By the way, do you think that foreign companies would import manual labour? Sounds like a bit irrealistic, isn't it?
The logic says that maybe they would import lettered people for the work that they are trying to develop.
I don't know where did you get this idea, but frankly, seems a total non sense.
Just look how the world works. There are many foreign architects in China, Dubai or Russia. Do you think that they import ALL the workers? Geez.

Do you know what globalization is? The world tends to blend in, all together. Of course that there are things from the Filipino culture that nowadays are buried, but this happens in all the countries because the societies evolve.
Philippines already has this asian hint that makes it attractive to the foreigners. And the landscapes, the way to be of the people, the food, the cities, whatever, would always have this hint.
You can see this differences in Europe nowadays. How could it be that the Phils lose this hint? It's impossible. Overprotectionism.

You say that you don't want to see the Philippines melting with the western traditions, but what about the chinese traditions (e.g.), are those more valid because they are asians? The Phils are The Phils.

About the spanish thing.. who said that? Did I?
Philippines has many languages and all should be respected imo, all with the same level of protection. Whether you like it or not, english knowledge is so extensive so it could operate as an official and neutral language for the relationships within the country.
When it comes to spanish, I really think that it's positive to expand the knowledge of it around the country, because it would give more opportunities to the country and the citizens, no matter if they are into Philippines or abroad.

The islands could receive a lot of investments from Latin America, Spain and the anglosaxon world and that's positive because that contribute to create wealth, jobs and enlarge the GDP.
Even, the immigrants could access to more options with the knowledge of the spanish and they would also have more opportunities.
It's not that weird. There are many countries in Europe where the people can speak three languages.
I'm not saying that they should speak them with the level of a native, but at least being understandable by a native with major problems.

Yes, I know what globalization is. But how much are you willing to put Filipino culture on the stakes at the risk for globalization?

Let me give an example. China has been developing for thousands of years, and it generated a very unique and very rich culture. It's rich in architecture, food, architecture, religion etc. Sadly, a lot of it got disregarded by the communists. Some of it, however was made workable for the common Chinese person by the communists such as the simplified alphabet (I'm not sticking up for the communists at all by the way - I'm not communist or a totalitarian for that matter). BUT, how would you like it if this beautiful culture just DISAPPEARED because of globalization? I used this as an example. I can use many other countries with rich cultures. The Philippines is another prime example ironically. A LOT OF OUR CULTURE ALREADY HAS DISAPPEARED (A lot of it has already disappeared because of colonization too). There's a difference between becoming a part of the world through globalization and being a contributor to the international community without sacrificing your own culture. Do you not see this difference? It's so obvious. Culture is so precious, and it doesn't need to be PUT ON THE LINE for this. We already cooperate well with the international community, and we can continue that way. We don't need to BECOME another country. No other country needs to become another country either. There's a fine and very definite line between globalization and cultural takeover. Must you let this interfere with Filipino cultural preservation? Do you really want to toss out your country - or for that matter, any other country's - rich history for no apparent reason? Cultures are so unique. We can let globalization enhance our politics, economics, development etc. But we don't have to let it erase our culture. The world's countries are unique, and as open as they are to globalization, they each have their own way of life which they won't let become taken over by the world. I'm not saying sell yourself to East Asia either, but we are East Asian. We should revive elements of our former culture and work on preserving what we have.

The Philippines needs protectionism right now; because its culture is being sold quicker than it can be preserved. Yes, the Philippines is westernizing to quickly. Like I said, I even had a friend in Mindanao who was teased because he used Tagalog instead of English. Wow, he was teased for using the NATIONAL LANGUAGE of his country. That almost seems ridiculous, but it's happening. Yes, I do want the Philippines to see its Asian roots, and revive the old elements of its culture. If you haven't noticed, the Philippines is in Asia, and it was founded by a mix of Asian cultures coming together. It doesn't have a mere HINT of Asian culture. It is inherently Asian. Is it so wrong to be open to what we were originally founded on? Is it so wrong to let this be the enhancing factor - our own buried culture - that makes us unique? Westernization is happening to quickly for us right now. I'm not saying to close our minds to the west, either. But our desire to westernize is happening to quickly and our culture is paying a huge price for this.

I didn't say YOU wanted Spanish to be the national language. I'm saying I've heard enough from people who want Spanish to be the national language. It's something we don't need. I encourage foreign language learning in school. But I won't standby replacing the national language of the Philippines with Spanish.

Read back what I said on page 40. I encourage you to read the whole post, but here's a little snippet to give you the gist of what I'm trying to say to you:

Let me ask you these questions:

The Philippines already had its own developing mega culture before the Spanish arrived. To what extent are you willing to dilute our own precious culture at the expense of borrowing more from a culture that we have borrowed a little from but was never purely ours?

You could never convince me to sacrifice and sell out more of our already rich culture for more of what we don't need.

While still keeping some of what the Spain and the U.S. have given us, let's revive elements of our megaculture that we used to have. It's uniquely ours, and it's not borrowing! That's the best that we can do for our country.

I encourage people learning more languages in school. But why do you prioritize all of the investments of the Latin American world? Do you not realize that the BULK/MOST of our investments come from our East Asian neighbors? Of course I'm going to be an advocate for encouraging more East Asian language learning in Filipino schools because there's not enough of it! Sure, include Spanish in the curriculum. But do you not see how important it is to learn English and East Asian languages?? Even in the U.S. the supply of Chinese instruction doesn't meet the demand. Why do you turn your head to this?

The Europeans that you refer to who can speak more than three languages - yes, they exist. But all of those languages are EUROPEAN! I've seen their class schedules too. I know how the language education works in Europe! Europeans learn European languages because that's where the bulk of their language learning comes from. We have international students in my school from Europe. They all can speak multiple European languages. Asian languages for the most part (truthfully) is reserved for college learning.

Isn't this common sense to you? Don't you see why it's important to learn East Asian languages early? Most of you almost even equate globalization with the spread of western culture. You seem so open to it. The bulk of your arguments defend your former colonizer, Spain. But when I say open your minds to Asia - where you come from, what has contributed to most of your culture - a lot of you clam up. What is this? Is this denial after years of colonization? I think we should be confident, shake off our colonial mentality, and be proud to be Filipinos.

It’s time to get real. Most of our investments are not coming from half way across the world. Most of our culture doesn’t even come from half way across the world. Some of it does but not all. There's simply not enough of East Asian learning in the Philippine education system, and that's where MOST of our investments come from. That’s why I’m an advocate for it.

True that the Philippines has already developed a distint regional culture before the coming of the Spaniard. To what extend? we did not really know. Tribes and Peoples in our islands had been trading with foreign traders as far as Arabia and India. The Philippines had developed a regional culture upon the coming of the Spaniard but it was the Spaniards that combine this regional cultures fusing them with Western culture into a single national culture that we know and familia Today. The Pre- Spanish Philippines was never united into a single country that we know today but it was mainly composed of many independent cities settlement and seperate independent island states, each with each own government and law different from one another. The first peoples in the Philippines came as early as 50,000 years ago but it was only upon the coming of the Spaniards that those small cities settlement and independent island became incorporated under a singel law ang government into nation that we know today as the Philippines. The Chinese has been trading with the islanders as early as the 10th century but they didn't even introduced them to a horse to make travel more easier in the islands or teach them chinese lifestyle and invention such how to built a house made of stone, bridge etc. The chinese as what Rizal said in his book they are only good at how to fool and take advantage of the natives by selling cheaper product in exchange for gold which worth more but of course the natives did not know that at the time. In the 333 years of Spanish ruled Spain took 150 years just to unite the many different tribes who speak different languages within the country to incorporate them into a single nation states with one culture and identity. It was during Spanish ruled that forest was clear for road, bridges was built to connect peoples on the sides of the river. Made houses stronger by infusing the lower part with stone and the upper house woods. The Spanish house that were built during colonial times were as Filipino as Spanish because there was nothing like it in the world but in the Philippines. The Spanish house is the combination of Spanish -Filipino inginuinity on how to built a better house suitable to the tropical climate. The Spanish built schools some of it still exist today the University of San Carlos, Ateneo, UST. Did the chinese even built or introduced the idea of public school so the native can learn. Most of these schools are still among the most prominent today and it was in these school that most of our heroes and patriots learn to fight for an independent Filipinas with Spanish as the national language.
The reinduction Spanish does not mean that Spanish should be return as a national language, no thats not the idea because we have a national language which is Filipino based on Tagalog. Spanish was being reintroduced to learn our hispanic past create better relation with 23 Spanish speaking countries. To open trade and promote tourism from Latin America to the Philippines, Asia is growing having trade with our neighbor is good but so is latin America and Spain. By learning Spanish and English our competency in the world will be higher b/c we not only competing in English Speaking world but also in Spanish.

Basically, you are saying that the Phils should open, culturally speaking, more to China (and hence the rest of Asia) than to the western.
I'm a westerner myself, and with all the respects, I can't see why chinese heritage, according to you, should be observed instead of the american or spanish ones.
And no, globalization is not a real problem to the traditions right now if you work to preserve it (including ALL the languages). Even in Europe, the differences between neighboring countries are huge.

If the Phils are the Phils, then neither Spain, USA nor China are.
So, protectionism? Autarky? That would be a ballast in the progress of the nation.

The knowledge of a second international language would be positive. Many markets could be opened this way, including Brazil where spanish is widely understood, and the Phils could be such a hub to a lot of nations eager to invest in Asia.
In the same way, those nations could use the Phils as a hub to maintain contacts with those countries, excepting China who is big enough to do it on its own.
So, the knowledge of chinese would be operative to invest in China or to receive investments from it (it would happen the same with english) but wouldn't be interesting to attract foreign investments.
Guess why Singapore has english as its official language? :|

And, to be frank, I'm not seeing chinese becoming an international language. It's so difficult to many speakers, mostly westerners (who whether you we like it or not are the ones who control the money and the markets right now), and as long as you have english, you can communicate with almost every lettered person in the world.
No doubt that the english knowledge would get wider in the next years and decades.

Basically, you are saying that the Phils should open, culturally speaking, more to China (and hence the rest of Asia) than to the western.
I'm a westerner myself, and with all the respects, I can't see why chinese heritage, according to you, should be observed instead of the american or spanish ones.
And no, globalization is not a real problem to the traditions right now if you work to preserve it (including ALL the languages). Even in Europe, the differences between neighboring countries are huge.

If the Phils are the Phils, then neither Spain, USA nor China are.
So, protectionism? Autarky? That would be a ballast in the progress of the nation.

The knowledge of a second international language would be positive. Many markets could be opened this way, including Brazil where spanish is widely understood, and the Phils could be such a hub to a lot of nations eager to invest in Asia.
In the same way, those nations could use the Phils as a hub to maintain contacts with those countries, excepting China who is big enough to do it on its own.
So, the knowledge of chinese would be operative to invest in China or to receive investments from it (it would happen the same with english) but wouldn't be interesting to attract foreign investments.
Guess why Singapore has english as its official language? :|

And, to be frank, I'm not seeing chinese becoming an international language. It's so difficult to many speakers, mostly westerners (who whether you we like it or not are the ones who control the money and the markets right now), and as long as you have english, you can communicate with almost every lettered person in the world.
No doubt that the english knowledge would get wider in the next years and decades.

You're missing everything I'm saying. I said the Philippines should open its doors more to the EASTERN World. China is a huge economic powerhouse which is in fact our neighbor. This is nothing we should ignore because we want to take another nosedive into our colonial Spanish past.

I never said only Chinese heritage. Why does this always go back to China? To be perfectly honest, I don't see Chinese becoming an international language either. But we're also dealing with our huge economic South Korean, Japanese, Singaporean and Thai investors. In spite of this, I’m not only talking on an investing level, but I’m talking more importantly, on a cultural level. I said that we should go back and preserve our East Asian heritage. It's not being preserved as quickly as it is being sold to westernization. THAT's why I want the Philippines to take a figurative step back in order to revive its East Asian/indigenous Filipino elements (Spanish elements included - since they did help contribute to our architecture). That's what it was founded and created on. The Spanish united the Philippine islands - which I credit them for - but the Philippines wasn't completely disorganized before they came like how a lot believe. If I left this thread to Mercato everyone would be believing that there was NOTHING in the Philippines before Spain came - which is false. How many times do I have to repeat this ?! This is costing us tourists as well. Like I said, there are European tourists who I’ve talked to (and overheard while talking) who don’t want to visit our country because they think it’s overly westernized. Do you see how much it’s costing us?

You're missing one point on Singapore. English isn't its only national language. It has four national languages: Malay, Chinese, Tamil, and English. Singapore has English as one of its national languages because it never had its own language like the Philippines did. It always had many languages that were accepted as the national language. However, if you were to walk down a Singaporean street and a Manila street, tell me which one looks more westernized? They didn't sell out as much as we did. If the Philippines used English as the national language but managed to preserve its cultural elements, I wouldn't be as adamant as I am now about preserving Filipino culture because it already would be preserved. Even the unique Filipino-Spanish houses that were uniquely Filipino are not as omnipresent as they used to be. When I look at new housing developments in the Philippines, a lot of them look like California condos. When I go to Seoul, I still see a lot of their cultural elements being used in their homes. They've westernized their homes to a degree, but they still implement their unique Korean elements of design in their homes: the wooden floors, kimchi refrigerators, area to take off and leave your shoes, sliding doors, furniture etc. They even still have Hanok villages. When I go back to the Philippines a lot of our design elements have been lost. Do you not see why I'm worried?

Here's an example from a July 9, 2009 article: "Siao Ling said with globalization stripping Filipino architects away from their essential character, it is all the more important for them to establish their own design identity globally." Luckily some are turning to more design concepts which are not so prevalent anymore because people are realizing that some Filipino architectural elements are eco-friendly as well. "“Sustainability is a trait which is very Filipino. Just by observing how local homes are insulated with nipa and make use of bamboo blinds and rolling windows, we can attest that green concepts are not foreign to us,” she said."

I didn't say there's anything WRONG with westernization, but I said that the Philippines is too readily accepting Western culture before it can preserve its own. Do you not care about this? Do you have to keep shoving westernization down my throat and making me seem like the villain for wanting the Philippines to slow down on it? I'm talking about the degree of westernization that we're accepting. Not enough of our culture is being saved. Like I said, I see this everywhere. Since we're in skyscrapercity, I'll use architecture as a prime example, because I rarely see Filipino architecture implemented in modern design. Can you not see where I'm coming from? I'm not making an outlandish point. It's plain and simple. I'm not going to repeat this point for another 30 pages. The Philippines is in Asia. It's East Asian neighbors provide the Philippines with the bulk/majority of it's investments. We need to put a bigger priority on our non-existent East Asian language learning (like how the Europeans emphasize learning other European language) in the schools. Fortunately, we can connect with them somewhat on a cultural level. However, English - the language of business - is already our second language, unless you have a regional language or some other language you picked up somehow. It's used in our media, in government, shopping etc. It wouldn't hurt to include some Spanish in the primary curriculum because there are a number of Spanish speaking countries in the market. But too many Filipinos are turning away from their Eastern/true Filipino roots. We've done a lot of Westernizing, and I don't see us stopping either. We do, however, need to put more emphasis on preserving our culture and getting reacquainted with our neighbors. They are the closest to us, and we need to develop good relationships with them. Like I've said a million times, they also provide us with the bulk of our investments. We need to take advantage of our surroundings - our true "Nayong Pilipino" culture and Eastern traditions which we've had for a long time need to not be lost. Is it so wrong of me to ask for this need of preservation? I don't see a problem in it.

ALL the countries are evolving. The world is moving and it's not good to remain stagnant.
Japan is too westernized, much more than the Phils, for example. Tokyo doesn't have this hint of the japanese culture, as Kyoto could have. Same happens in China recently. And, of course in South Korea, the most obvious case of westernization in Asia.

But also in Europe, our habits are moving towards Asia. Food, furniture, sports and many other stuff is become popular and hip.
The process is reciprocal.

Japan's and Korea's economies are sinking. Literally. And let's see in the next years, because they depend too much of exportations and China is overcoming the share of the technological market, so both could be hit strongly.
So, if you are expecting them to invest, you are so naive. The future of Asia is China and maybe India, if they know how to move their business.
Again, guess what? India has strong links with the UK.

China is not too interested in Philippines. What could it apport them? Not too much compared to the EU, NAFTA or Latin America, bigger markets and much more homogeneous. Also, with more money.
Would be much more interesting become the partner of one of this markets in Asia to receive as much investments are possible. A hub, like Singapore is right now.

And really, forget about the chinese. It's not too popular between westerners as you said. Most of the people who study chinese has a poor level and can't communicate themselves using the language.
Many of them drop it a few months after starting.
We don't the languages because they are european or not, what a brave statement. We study them because they are useful. That's why we study english, spanish or french. And some of them, learn german.
You can say that they are european languages, and it's true. But the point is not that. The point is that they are easy and useful.

Two years studying english are enough to communicate, maybe with a medium level, but enough to be understood. Now, what do two years of chinese do? Two hundred of hanzi and a bit of grammar and unable to communicate.

I think that it's obvious why chinese won't be too popular.

A culture don't lose his heritage being in touch with the rest of the world. It's impossible. Check out the history of many countries to confirm it.
Europe, e.g., has always been in touch within itself and Germany is not similar to Greece.

Yeah! There's an identity crisis thread I've been active with this in that you can follow in the heritage area! I would talk about this more with you here, but we'll get kicked out.

Thus, upon invitation of epik ll ian I join this thread.

...It hurts when I see how European tourists talk about how they would prefer to not make the trip to the Philippines while they're in Asia because they believe it's too much like their own culture and they're not getting enough of the cultural experience when the visit the Philippines. Some view it as a waste of time. They would rather go to some other place like Vietnam...

If that is the case, then maybe it's time we shift the focus of our tourism marketing. Europeans and Americans feel that our culture is too similar to them? In that case why not shift marketing to East Asians, primarily the Chinese? They are fascinated with European culture and think it's exotic. They aren't as rich as the Japanese who can afford to travel to the real Europe, but what they lack in individual wealth they can easily make up for in sheer numbers of tourists. I see an opportunity here, but first we must clean up our safety and security image, as that is the biggest blot on our reputation in the outside world at the moment.

These days our staple white sands and sunny beaches are no longer enough. Thailand has those in spades. Malaysia has no problem promoting themselves as "We have everything in Asia in one country!" We should not be ashamed of our hybrid Western-Asian culture and in fact should emphasize it when promoting tourism, as it could actually turn out to be the biggest draw. You just have to find the right audience to sell to.

What's the problem with the families of the foreigners that invest in Philippines? They are trying to earn profits and helping the country to develop.

Nothing, they can always visit whenever they like. Their spouses and children can even stay for the duration of their business projects.

They come to the Philippines to invest, precisely. It is only expected of the investor to assume the risk of whether his ventures will pay off or not. Therefore it's clear that the primary incentive is a return of their investment with profits, not the priviledge of immigration and Filipino citizenship.

What if the venture fails? What if he goes bankrupt? Will the Philippine government and the Filipino taxpayer have to assume responsiblity for their welfare?

They may even earn the right to come back anytime if they like for good behavior and for "helpng out" the economy, but permanent residency and citizenship should be off the table because that's an entirely different issue.

IT IS ETHICALLY WRONG FOR GOVERNMENT TO USE IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP AS INCENTIVES TO SPUR FOREIGNERS TO INVEST, IT'S TANTAMOUNT TO PUTTING THE HONOR OF FILIPINO CITIZENSHIP LIKE IT WAS A "COMMODITY" UP FOR SALE.

Pero the point is moot anyway, I mean what wealthy foreigner (in their thousands) would want to stay as permanent residents and eventually citizens in the Philippines? The chances are, their main residency and nationality would remain at their country of origin or corporate headquarters. UNLESS THEY ARE LOOKING ON TO EVADE STATE TAXES OR TRIAD "TONGS" IN THEIR COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN.


Philippines has many immigrants around the globe and they could be able to meet their families again. It's a normal immigration policy. What's the problem with applying it back?
Don't you know what international relations are? In case you don't have a treaty with a country, the normal acting is to apply the same rule that they are applying to you. Reciprocity, that's it.

Reciprocity, precisely!....how long does it take for a Filipino to line up and wait just for a tourist visa to the U.S. or EU? Just imagine how much longer if it's an immigrant visa? Applying and waiting patiently isn't even a guarrantee that it won't be denied.

But that's through the slow and painstaking "legal" way. You must understand that we are talking of "legal immigration". I don't know exactly what percentage of Filipinos came to these countries on a mere tourist visa, but can you doubt that such numbers must be considerably higher?

By the way, do you think that foreign companies would import manual labour? Sounds like a bit irrealistic, isn't it?

It's not inconceivable. Germany had a "guest worker" program during it's industrial boom years of the 60s and 70s. They employed hordes of cheap manual labor from Turkey. Lots of Filipino manual labor went to work in Saudi and the Emirates during their construction boom years.

The U.S. farm industry also employed the "guest worker" principle, this one made up of Mexcian laborers. They still do it.

Even now, Korea has a lot of Filipino unskilled laborers making gym shoes and garments in their factories.

But my point is, Filipinos are allowed abroad because that's where their physical selves are needed. YOU CANNOT FAX THE SERVICES OF GERIATRIC NURSES , as an example.

Whereas, an investor can simply use his i-pod or cell phone from whatever girlie bar he's holed-up in to receive updates and give instructions.


The logic says that maybe they would import lettered people for the work that they are trying to develop.
I don't know where did you get this idea, but frankly, seems a total non sense.
Just look how the world works. There are many foreign architects in China, Dubai or Russia. Do you think that they import ALL the workers? Geez.

THERE IS NO OBJECTION TO THE LETTERED AND 'EXCEPTIONALLY GIFTED", THE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT ALLOWING FOREIGNERS TO IMMIGRATE INTO THE PHILIPPINES ON THE SIMPLE BASIS THAT THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO INVEST. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

^^^^ Grabe maglasing ang mga pinoy, lalo na sa pinas. Ang dami kong memories duon . ibang klase talaga.

"toss tayo" lang yata talaga ang equivalent ng "cheers" sa Filipinas. Yan at "inom tayo" o "tagay pare"

Let me ask you these questions:

The Philippines already had its own developing mega culture before the Spanish arrived. To what extent are you willing to dilute our own precious culture at the expense of borrowing more from a culture that we have borrowed a little from but was never purely ours?

Why can't we just flare our culture with what we used to have? Just re-introduce it? We already had our own unique culture that was formed from the best of the East. It was then give a little spice from Spain. However, there are lots of aspects of Filipino culture which have been buried over the past 400 years. And we continue to bury it to this day in hopes of blending in with the west. I don't want to lose our unique culture! In some specific cases, we already have a functioning language that meets the needs of our country. We don't need Spanish to replace it. Right now, bowing might seem weird to you, but it wasn't to our Filipino ancestors! We even used to have our own Nayong Pilipino architecture! We used to have our own last names, way of eating, writing script etc. You could never convince me to sacrifice and sell out more of our already rich culture for more of what we don't need.


Let the Philippines stand out among its neighbors as a country that has had a megaculture from the East that was furthered with some Spanish flare, but don't let it be excluded from its neighbors by being too radically different and western. Sadly, this is what we are too often accused of, and it's costing us. It's costing us our own indigenous culture and tourists. We already had our own unique culture that was a beautiful mix of all the elements of the Eastern world. While still keeping some of what the Spain and the U.S. have given us, let's revive elements of our megaculture that we used to have. It's uniquely ours, and it's not borrowing! That's the best that we can do for our country.

This post is full of utter bullshit! This is the problem of most nationalistic and delusional Filipinos. They never understand the concept and the importance of the foreign influences of what makes the present Filipino identity and its culture. The original inhabitant’s culture and history was not a Garden of Eden. If you think that it was so great then why did most of the natives abandon the harsh practices that were part of the indigenous culture? Without the help of the foreigners the native culture and technology would make the entire islands (IF it was a ONE STATE ruled under ONE GOVERNMENT) a backward nation. It was technological weak compared to its Asian neighbors. Also, let us exclude the Islamic natives because they got their knowledge from Islam which is part of the Abrahamic religions or Western religions. This knowledge from Islam introduced them to Islamic arts, literatures, traditions, and technologies which were advance to the rest of the animistic and pagan native populations of the islands. It is ironic because this select group of natives KNEW who Jesús, María, and José (Súsmariosep!) were before the coming of the Spaniards (These 3 saints or individuals can be found in the Qur'an).

To make Philippine history concise and understandable for everybody there was no STATE in Luzón and the Visayas before Spanish colonialism. This is in contrast to the Sulu Sultanate which claimed a huge area of Southern Philippines and including the Moluccas. Their legal and administrative systems were influenced by Islamic statecraft. On the other hand, the islands of Luzón and Visayas were incorporated into the Hapsburg Empire. This was their first experience of living under a STATE: i.e. paying a yearly tax and yielding their use of weapons when settling conflicts to a higher authority, and a formal government with a bureaucracy. The native inhabitant’s cultures are comparable to those in the Americas but not too blood thirsty as the Mexican Natives!

In lieu to the importance of Spanish in the Philippines, it is undeniable fact that it is important in our history as a country and people. Heck, we need it to better understand what were the original inhabitants were during the past. The English language is also important but to forget about Spanish in Philippine affairs is just plain ignorant. An article written by Fr. José Arcilla SJ in the Bussiness World website on Monday, February 25th of 2008 touched this issue with Blair and Robertson:

"Recently a researcher at the National University of Singapore analyzed the volumes and concluded that the BR was a subtle tool to spread the notoroious 'leyenda negra' of Spanish cruelty and inhumanity. In other words, the U.S. was called by Destiny to change things through its policy of 'benevolent assimilation'....BR added in each volume a preface. But, to cite our researcher, the BR 'systmematically furnish (es) the idea that 'slavery' was a pre-Hispanic institution maintained by the Spaniards. They do not explain under what circumstances the Spaniards enslaved the indios...The prefaces are mere descriptions, mots quite biased, of the documents without explaining the intricacies of Spanish administration....More than once, the BR used the English terms 'oppression' and 'tyranically' even if the original Spanish text did not include them. Another instance of mistranslation was that of the Spanish 'afligir', which has many English equivalents, but hardly 'oppression.'"

You said we had a mega culture before? Tell me which group of the inhabitants are you pertaining to? I would assume it’s the Luzón natives? It is funny and weird how some Filipinos claim that the Spanish brought slavery to our shores and kept the inhabitants naïve and forced into a system of caste like others in Asia. This is simply false and inaccurate. These ignorant ones deny that it already existed prior to the Spanish Philippines. I am sure you have read the glorification of the alipin (slaves) and bihag (prisoners) in which they said have the ability to buy them out of slavery? This is bullshit. Those who were captured or given as slaves were sacrificed when their owners died in order to bring them to the afterlife. They were considered as part of the material possession and not individuals. How come this knowledge is not taught to Filipinos? This was abolished by Christianity and debt slavery in the islands became illegal around 1698 or 1699. Read W.H. Scott´s monograph on “Slavery in the Spanish Philippines”.

To make an analogy of Filipino culture, it can be seen in our food. Our embutido, paella, picadillo de patatas, arroz caldo and others might have Spanish names and influences, but they are different and not a copy of Spanish food. For example, our mechado we add soy sauce into the mix of tomato sauce and this came from our fusion with East Asian and Latin traditions. It is different and yet purely Filipino. This should be appreciated and be known to all. The label Spanish bahay na bato (stone houses) is also wrong, because you cannot find any of these in Spain and in the Americas! Only in the Philippines.

To point out what WEIRD and others here have said: The Philippines can be a great place for foreigners because we are FAMILIAR and yet DIFFERENT at the same time. Do you really believe that Filipinos are too Americanized? Are you delusional? The rest of the world is being Americanized or Westernized. Our culture has many similarities with other nations, especially the Hispanized and Latin countries of the Americas and in Europe. This does not make ours fake or uncultured to begin with, which is a sad fact that many Filipinos try to portray and not valued enough. It has its own unique flavour that makes it Filipino. The Western country in Asia to put it and a great concept to lure Asian tourist into our country just like what Danny had posted.

Think about the concept of the Yin and Yang. How can you define Filipino culture and identity without including our conquered past? Do you believe that the pre-colonial natives would feel at home and would call the present inhabitant's as part of them? No. Those past cultures are more foreign and insignificant to us than our European flare.

Soy Latina Tambien by Kathleen Ferraren
Posted on February 8, 2009 by nold (http://withonespast.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/soy-latina-tambien-by-kathleen-ferraren/)

High School Filipino Kathleen Ferraren wins Latino Essay Writing Contest in DC

Tue, October 2, 2007 7:37 am

Kathleen’s Dad, Patrick Ferraren (in Virginia), a long lost friend, 30 years ago a co-staffer of The Forward at Colegio de San Jose-Recoletos, after we got reconnected wrote:

“How can a young contemporary Filipina lay claim to Hispanic Heritage, compete with other DC area high school Hispanics in an essay contest about how being Latino is the best of both worlds in the USA, and win? Answer: By weaving a connection that is indisputably valid, drawing on her life’s experiences that enhance the connection, and expressing her feelings about the significance of that Spanish connection-utilizing her unique personal style of literary writing that appeals to her audience. She made it light reading and interestingly anecdotal, with relevant facts. The dozen or so judges approved and gave it to her. Who would have known? Pardon my “estoy muy orgulloso” father attitude, but this makes for an interesting English Lesson because it is true. Here is an example of how to write a winning piece! In the real world!” (I asked Patrick that I post Kathleen’s winning piece as I find this very inspiring for our young Danawanons in California as well as all other young Pinays. – Monching)

SOY LATINA TAMBIÉN

Kathleen is my given name but I recall my parents called me by my Spanish name, Catalina, when I was four years old. Both my parents are Filipinos of mixed origin-mostly Spanish and Asian. Having immigrated to America from the Philippines, they brought their colorful cultures to the melting pot that is America. I was brought up in a Roman Catholic household where the Santo Niño and the Virgen stood on an altar.

Although my parents’ home country, the Philippines, is located in Asia, it has a lot to share with other Latino countries. Named after Madrid’s King Philip II, the country was colonized by Spain from 1565 to 1898.

My parents decided that I would grow up learning English only. However, they would often insert Spanish words-embossed into their culture from 333 years of Spanish rule-into daily conversation. I was used to hearing other people muttering about my and other children’s foibles, complaining with sacrilegious words of Jesús y María, and when we were especially clumsy, Jesús, María y José. Refusals to eat my empanada or drink my leche earned me a slap on the arm and an order of habre.

Around this time, when I was about three, my mother and my tía thought that it would be charming to dress up my cousin and me up in matching outfits. Next to my lacy camisetas, beautiful fans from Sevilla, and handed down jewelries, my mother’s favorite outfit for me was a bright red tiered Spanish dress with puffy sleeves and white lace. I hated it and cried often when I was forced to wear it to parties.

“Put it on, hija” commanded my mother.

“No, mamá” I replied defiantly.

“You’ll never go to Nicky’s again,” warned my mother, forcing the itchy heap over my head.

“Jesús, María y José!” I protested, promptly earning me a time-out.

After that episode, my parents considered augmenting my Spanish in addition to the trite expressions. Already I was going around telling my fellow preschoolers that yes, babies could talk, because ga-ga in Pilipino (a language sporadically infused with Spanish) meant stupid. My father especially nudged me to learn Castilian, and he continues to advocate the vosotros conjugation and th lisp to this day.

After seven years, I began to grumble. It irked me when another student was given the Spanish name Catalina. I had to settle for Catrina. The misnomer tormented me, and my interest waned. “Soy Catalina,” I used to murmur. “Why do I have to learn, anyway? In America, people speak English.”

“Huh,” my mother replied. “It is your heritage, and many people in America speak Spanish. Besides, don’t you want to be able to read Don Quixote in its original Spanish?”

That last reason remains my biggest motivation of all. Since I am still not fluent in the language, my second-hand hardcover still lies enticingly on my bookshelf. I will suffer patiently like the steadfast Florentino Ariza. However, I have succumbed to the charms of Gabriel García Márquez and Isabel Allende, whose words I devour amid sobs and laughter. I have also given way to telenovelas, RBD, and reggaeton.

I finally had a chance to practice my Spanish during this year’s spring break on a school trip to Perú and Ecuador. I spent many happy hours enjoying the warmth and joy of the people, and I nearly leapt out of my chair in a restaurant when local musicians played “Qué sera, sera,” a song that my father used to sing to me when I was very little. Cheering and wearing red, I ran into the celebrating throngs in Plaza de Armas when the local Cienciano team won the South American World Cup. I gaped at the majestic Sacsayhuamán, I ate cuy, and I took care not to use the Sagrada Familia’s names in vain in the beloved Iglesia de San Francisco. My most unforgettable experience, however, was getting lost on the mountain Machu Picchu.

By the time I started to descend, it was already sunset. Anyone who has been up that long, treacherous mountain can understand the terror it inspired in me as I stumbled in the dark, often losing my footing and hearing snakes in the undergrowth. I found myself conversing with the Urubamba below and clutching my Incan cross that I had bought from the tienda. When I finally emerged along with my fellow hikers, our guide tried to calm us down with Inca Kola and stories of his home life in Lima.

“Well, I like to spend time with my wife and daughter,” he began. “And I catch up on telenovelas.”

“Ooh, do you watch Rebelde?” I asked eagerly, and conversed with him in as much Spanish as I could muster.

I returned home victoriously spouting colloquial Spanish and proclaiming myself a Latina. That entire trip, more than anything else, made me realize how much the Spanish culture is ingrained in people’s lives, including mine, albeit not entirely native. I consider myself a far-extended product of Spanish progeny and regale, however vicariously, in its influence and impact to the world. We as a people have a proud history, and our language unites us and defines our culture. Culture is how one lives his heritage: the dances my mother knew, the songs on the guitarra my father would sing, the religion we practice, the wars we fought, and the glorious lands of our fathers that are worth dying for. Everything is filled with our passion for life. And so we are fortunate to live in the United States, who celebrates and integrates our unique culture with her own. Here, we are offered opportunities that we may not have had back home, and our countries stand together in friendship.

My dream is to take a road trip across Spain and to dance the flamenco in the middle of Madrid, amid shouts of Olé from the audience. And then, of course, to eat chicharrones and vindictively spill them all over my puffy and lacy red dress.

I didn't say there's anything WRONG with westernization, but I said that the Philippines is too readily accepting Western culture before it can preserve its own. Do you not care about this? Do you have to keep shoving westernization down my throat and making me seem like the villain for wanting the Philippines to slow down on it? I'm talking about the degree of westernization that we're accepting. Not enough of our culture is being saved. Like I said, I see this everywhere. Since we're in skyscrapercity, I'll use architecture as a prime example, because I rarely see Filipino architecture implemented in modern design. Can you not see where I'm coming from? I'm not making an outlandish point. It's plain and simple. I'm not going to repeat this point for another 30 pages. The Philippines is in Asia. It's East Asian neighbors provide the Philippines with the bulk/majority of it's investments. We need to put a bigger priority on our non-existent East Asian language learning (like how the Europeans emphasize learning other European language) in the schools. Fortunately, we can connect with them somewhat on a cultural level. However, English - the language of business - is already our second language, unless you have a regional language or some other language you picked up somehow. It's used in our media, in government, shopping etc. It wouldn't hurt to include some Spanish in the primary curriculum because there are a number of Spanish speaking countries in the market. But too many Filipinos are turning away from their Eastern/true Filipino roots. We've done a lot of Westernizing, and I don't see us stopping either. We do, however, need to put more emphasis on preserving our culture and getting reacquainted with our neighbors. They are the closest to us, and we need to develop good relationships with them. Like I've said a million times, they also provide us with the bulk of our investments. We need to take advantage of our surroundings - our true "Nayong Pilipino" culture and Eastern traditions which we've had for a long time need to not be lost. Is it so wrong of me to ask for this need of preservation? I don't see a problem in it.

The Filipino culture and identity is Austronesian and this we share similarities with the original non-Chinese Taiwanese, Indonesians, Malays, Micronesians and the Polynesians. I don’t see a problem on why being labeled as Pacific Islander is nonrepresentational of the Filipinos. My family has a friend from Palau and she looks like she could be Filipina and some of their native customs are the same in Mindanao. You have pointed out that you have a friend from Mindanao. I am from Mindanao and know what the situations are over there. Also, I have seen a documentary about Polynesian-Palau culture and it reflects its European customs or influences for both nations. This is a vital link that bonds us with them.

Our native culture transforms all foreign influences in our islands into a mix of what we have today. It is a pity that you guys don’t understand the concept of the Spanish mestizaje. You cited Philippine architecture. Then what about the evolution of Philippine architecture with the help of European improvements? Note: our architecture did not begin and only end with the Nipa huts! The Spanish, Chinese, Japanese and Mexican architectural influences in the Philippine stone houses were transformed and assimilated which became Filipino architecture. Why do you think we don’t use enough of our architecture in our design? Because we associate the improvements of our architectural style as colonial and non-Philippine. It is a pity.

About the Chinese influence in the Philippines, an authority in this matter is Dr. William Henry Scott from the 70s to the 80s. He speaks a variety of European and Asiatic languages including several Philippine and Chinese languages. The Chinese influence in our culture only had a major impact when the arrival of the Spanish came and made the Philippines as its Asian depot for commercialism. He concluded that in 1570, only a few Chinese traders were in Manila. This grew into thousands with the introduction of the Manila-Acapulco galleon trade. Yes, the Chinese were bartering with the natives prior to that but they were merely giving and exchanging goods that were considered inferior. It is true you can find porcelain products in the islands but no evidence has proven that Chinese settlements can be found prior to 1565. In fact, Chinese chronicles have written and warned about the natives of the islands as they practiced slavery and raids to Chinese merchants.

About the Indian influence, a Filipino expert on Indian relations is Dr. Juan Francisco who was educated and knew several Indian languages. His finding shows that prior to 1565 little or no direct contacts were found between the natives of the islands and those with Hinduism. The Indian influence came by from the Indonesian islands. No Brahmanic class can be found in our country prior to Spanish Philippines.

About Islam, this Islamic influence is great in Southern Philippines and I believe it is more significant with the Spanish, Chinese, and American influences. The rest of the natives as written by earlier accounts were tattooed, ate pork, drank liquor, and worshiped many gods. This is the opposite for Muslim Mindanao. This very antithesis of Islamic way of life can be seen with the natives of Luzón and Visayas. It is true that some regions in Manila were Muslim because Rajah Suliman had ties with the Sultanate of Sulu and the Sultanate of Brunei but his kingdom was a mere outpost of Islamization of the northern islands. Many of the inhabitants have not converted. You have to remember that the islands were under chiefdom's. Also, I should know about Islamic Filipinos because my grandfather is Muslim and an Imam.

^^ Ahh....but how much of that practice has been eroded with the advent of the microwave. Because these days, we can avail of hot meals with nuking the food if you have no time to eat together at the same table at the same time. ;)

maybe filipinos in the US does that.i dont think it happens in the philippines.seeing your mothers cooking the dinner,preparing the table,family having a great conversation is something that im happy experiencing..

and most filipino doesnt have a microwave:lol:

@RayAdillO:

I'm not Filipino and I won't have any problem if my company send me to the Philippines for a while to work there.
But, I can't understand why do you say that we foreigners want to get the Filipino nationality.
Maybe you don't know that many countries require to renounce previously to your nationality to get another, what makes the situation more akward.

By the way, you should check the things properly.
Philippines, as an ex colony of Spain, has a special treat from the spanish government. You just need two years to get the spanish nationality (hence, the european) instead of the ten years that a chinese citizen would need.

But, nevertheless, Spain has a high rate of unemployment nowadays, and they don't kick out all the immigrants who don't have a job. So that's why I find very rude that "they can stay for the duration of their business project".

PS: Thanks for the red and the capital letters but they are not necessary. I can read you the same without them ;)

No, not alright. Are you sure you're Filipino? This is by far the weirdest - and almost uniformed for that matter - statement I've seen in a while. The Philippines was only islands and wilderness in the 1400's?? Aside from the poster above me ...
....Oh no! You're not only Asian geographically, but your first ancestors who permanently pushed the aboriginal Negritos up the mountains and settled in the Philippines are Chinese as well! Not to mention this blood eventually got diluted over the next few thousands of years with primarily Malay, Indonesian (Austronesian - as you like to call it) and some Arabic/Indian blood. Only for 300 years during this entire 6000 year span of recordable Filipino history were the Spanish present. And just because the Spanish conquistadors were one of your more recent colonizers, you are somehow still puppeted by them and you continue to give your blind allegiance and credit of the majority Filipino culture to Spain? You also seem to have no faith in the pure untouched-by-western civilization melting pot of culture that existed before that. Besides the fact that I notice a tendency for you to discredit the pure-Filipino culture that once existed and seeing how you like to hand it over to Spanish domination and influence, you even JUST said that the Philippines was wilderness before the 1400's. After 5 and a half thousand years of Eastern culture and development in the Philippines which blended into an amazing Filipino culture (even though the true development really started around 1,000 B.C.), did a short 300 years in comparison of Spanish rule really throw off your frame of mind that much to where you all discredit what happened before the Spanish - even to the point where you think that it DIDN'T EVEN EXIST? And even then so, did their rule offset your frame of mind to a point where you all think you have little connections with your Asian neighbors/ancestors? Do you have to credit the Filipino success to Spain as much as you do after I just proved you false on the fact that the Philippines existed for a LONG time before even the 1400's? It's extremely false. I really see no future argument for you. It doesn't even take a big history lesson to discover basic Filipino-history common knowledge like this...... Nay old chap, I should ask you the very same question? Are you really Filipino? Or North Asian? :lol::lol: All that slobbering for his Beijing masters. Pity, if you really are a Filipino Benedict Arnold. :lol:

Army, Navy or Air Force?? :lol::lol: [highlight in blue]

Hey, I thought you were fastidious and lectured me on the virtues of conciseness? Hell, álmost all your posts are a minimum of 1 kilometre long. :lol:

Hold on, all those quotes of yours do NOT have sources. I can see a great many injected prevarications there, boulderdash hah! :lol::lol: Ol' chap, at least the poster above you mentioned his sources. Now, get this clear. According to history, Zhen He never went to the Philippines. Now you say in your mysterious quotes that he did and further expanded the Palembang colony to reach the Philippines. Now why weren't these exploits recorded for posterity, eh??? :lol:

Have you ever heard of this wonderful US Institute called the National Geographic Society? These guys, together with the Human Genome Project [the labs are in Arizona and Texas], had begun classifications sometime this decade. Unfortunately for you, the Austronesian haplogroup type was declared separate and distinct from that of the Han Chinese. Need I say more? Austronesian to include Malaysia, Indonesia, Oceania, Madagascar and the Philippines. That is where the Philippine majority belongs, not to the mainland despite your wildest dreams.

I suggest you run along now to the nearest British council and get comprehension counselling coz you always seem to have me mistaken for someone else. :lol: I have absolutely no idea why you like bringing up the Spanish card when I never mentioned it in all my previous posts on this thread. Then again, for someone with just rudimentary skills on the language, what can I say? :lol::lol:

Yes it is!

i dont get it... wat is dat pic about? :nuts:

I Just want to share how our Cultures is being appreciated by those Expat communities in our country. See one them below or go to their site to see more.
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Return to Mayberry?
July 30, 2009 by JohnM
Filed under Feature, John Miele

Last week, I had a meeting in Intramuros, and was waiting at Luneta Park for my colleagues to arrive. So, I chose one of the little food stands by the park entrance, bought a Diet Coke, and sat there half people watching and half messing around with my Blackberry while waiting. So, I’m sitting there, and see a group of about 20 kids, very obviously street children, around 10 years old or so, just hanging around by the side of the fountain in the park. A cop walks up to them, and I’m watching, expecting him to shoo them away or something. He walks away, towards his car, opens the trunk, and brings them a soccer ball for an impromptu football match. The cop joined in, as did a couple of other adults around (They asked me to play too, but I was dressed for my meeting), and they played for about 10 minutes, until the cop had to leave and drove away. I must admit, I was really smiling the whole time I was watching this… It really was a nice scene and truly made my day. It also got me to thinking: This would NEVER happen in the United States. This was something from a different time. A time in the States that I only vaguely remember, and I’m over 40 years old.

I was thinking about how America was different then. I remember being on a farm and riding in the back of a pickup. We rode our bikes without helmets. We could go just about anywhere in our neighborhood and be safe. We shot BB guns and slingshots at tin cans. We were taught to find a police officer if we were in trouble. I remember falling off my bike and a lady giving me a bandaid, giving me cookies, and calling home. There were no metal detectors in school, and disputes were settled with fists only, instead of guns. We didn’t need day planners. If I dared so much as to smart off to an adult, I would get backhanded. What is different now? Kids are still the same. Indeed, Socrates was essentially telling kids to “Get off his lawn!” over 2,000 years ago, as evidenced by his quote: ”Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannies their teachers“.

It dawned on me that America has become paranoid. Unfortunately, the result of this fear is that scenes like I witnessed in Luneta Park no longer happen in America. Everyone is a suspect. Everyone is up to no good. Why? Is life truly that much more dangerous than 30 years ago, or do we simply hear more about bad things in the media. When colleagues in the States ask me how I can live in a third-world country, they simply don’t believe me when I tell them that people are different here. They are not so different, but their values and mores are different. I think money is the corruption in the States, as is lack of suffering. People no longer take responsibility for their actions. It is far too easy to pass the blame, sue the evil corporation, blame racism, sexism, or any of dozens of other “-isms”.

Other things I have seen in the Philippines that never happen any longer in America:

A couple of months ago, I was at Mall of Asia, using the restroom, and as I’m zipping up, I saw a kid trying to reach the faucet. Before I could even notice, one of the security guards picked the kid up and held him over the sink so he could wash his hands. Try that in America, well-intentioned though you may be, and you are likely to end up behind bars on molestation charges.

There are at least 15 neighbors who will watch our son, at any time, and we can leave him with them, knowing he will be safe. No, I don’t check any pedophile vregistries… I don’t need to here.

I saw a motorcycle accident, and people actually stopped to help. In fact, too many were trying their best (It actually interfered with the police.) There were no lawyers on the scene, by the way.

I had a flat tire in the province, and in a span of 5 minutes, at least 5 people stopped by to help me change the tire.

Very, very seldom do you hear kids speaking to an adult in an obnoxious manner. The vast majority of kids still say “Sir” and offer “Mano Po”. Not many adults here are referred to as “Dude”.

Everyone in our compound knows their neighbors, waves, and says “Good Morning”… Every day.

In Abulug, charity begins with food. At, nearly every house I have visited there, people offer food. My Mother-in-Law has never let someone leave her house on an empty stomach. This includes times when they had no food to spare.

Nearly every time someone in the compound has a birthday, there is a big party and everyone is invited. This differs from American birthday parties, which have largely become gift grabs… Here, no gift is expected… Just your presence.

The barbershop in Ballesteros, where the men sit there playing chess all day, and everyone is welcome to play.

Accidents still happen here, but the rest of the world is not liable. There is still responsibility for your own actions. Highly unlikely that McDonalds coffee lady would collect so much as a single Peso because she didn’t know that coffee is hot. Likewise, Mr. “Gee, I didn’t know this chainsaw would cut off my hand!” gets zilch.

There are many posts and articles on the Net where everyone talks about the “smiles” here. Yes, people here tend to smile quite a bit, but those types of comments are usually rather superficial. That is what you notice when you are here on vacation. What I am talking about is the very fabric of day to day life here. The values that no longer exist in the United States. I am not trying to sugar coat anything or paint a misleadingly rosy picture. This country has some very severe problems for which there are no easy solutions. However, these values go far beyond any “Family Values” catch phrase (BTW, I absolutely abhor that term) or political bull. The values here are just how people were raised… The Golden Rule is still observed. If you see someone hungry, give them something to eat, because you may be hungry someday. If you see someone in trouble, try and help. Be nice to your neighbors and they’s be nice to you. Simple rules of living, but rules that are rarely followed in America anymore. America is Time, Money, Security.

In Klaus’ column today, a reader posted a link to a web site where an American was complaining about how everyone in the Philippines was so unfair to foreigners and how Filipinos all hate foreigners. It read as a whiny, arrogant, “Everyone feel sorry for me” diatribe. This guy lived in Angeles City near the whorehouses, and, in my mind at least, outside of marrying his wife, made very little effort to assimilate into the culture or truly get to know those around him. That is his loss. Everything about moving here has not been rosy for me, and there are things that go on in the Philippines that I truly dislike about the country. HOWEVER, the family structure, values, and respect for others is something SPECIAL. I have travelled to virtually every country in Asia and Europe, and grew up in America, and I can truly say that the Philippines is unique in this respect in this day and age. Many places in the world have nice beaches, climate, shopping, or whatever. This is unique and only here.

I titled this article “Return to Mayberry?”, because that is what people are generally like here. I remember North Carolina, as a kid, being not all that different than Andy Griffith’s portrayal. Living in the Philippines is, in many respects, a return to Mayberry or America 50 years ago. There is respect for others, charity, kindness, family, and an appreciation about what is important in life. These aspects of Philippine life rarely get discussed or heard above the typical “Sex, Beach, Cheap, Beer, Smiles” talk. This is what you notice once you’ve been here a bit. This is what awaits you if you open your eyes, relax, and interact with others. This is what awaits you if you treat others with respect as fellow human beings. This is what is so truly special about the Philippines.


About the Author: John Miele is a Citizen of the World, having spent time in many locations around the globe. Currently, he finds himself in Manila, but travels throughout the Philippines. John joined the Live in the Philippines Web Magazine in mid-2008.

SOURCE: http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/return-to-mayberry/#comment-46207

filipino values , i hope it's never lost. is it a price paid when a country becomes industrialized..

The Filipino culture and identity is Austronesian and this we share similarities with the original non-Chinese Taiwanese, Indonesians, Malays, Micronesians and the Polynesians. I don’t see a problem on why being labeled as Pacific Islander is nonrepresentational of the Filipinos. My family has a friend from Palau and she looks like she could be Filipina and some of their native customs are the same in Mindanao. You have pointed out that you have a friend from Mindanao. I am from Mindanao and know what the situations are over there. Also, I have seen a documentary about Polynesian-Palau culture and it reflects its European customs or influences for both nations. This is a vital link that bonds us with them.

Our native culture transforms all foreign influences in our islands into a mix of what we have today. It is a pity that you guys don’t understand the concept of the Spanish mestizaje. You cited Philippine architecture. Then what about the evolution of Philippine architecture with the help of European improvements? Note: our architecture did not begin and only end with the Nipa huts! The Spanish, Chinese, Japanese and Mexican architectural influences in the Philippine stone houses were transformed and assimilated which became Filipino architecture. Why do you think we don’t use enough of our architecture in our design? Because we associate the improvements of our architectural style as colonial and non-Philippine. It is a pity.

About the Chinese influence in the Philippines, an authority in this matter is Dr. William Henry Scott from the 70s to the 80s. He speaks a variety of European and Asiatic languages including several Philippine and Chinese languages. The Chinese influence in our culture only had a major impact when the arrival of the Spanish came and made the Philippines as its Asian depot for commercialism. He concluded that in 1570, only a few Chinese traders were in Manila. This grew into thousands with the introduction of the Manila-Acapulco galleon trade. Yes, the Chinese were bartering with the natives prior to that but they were merely giving and exchanging goods that were considered inferior. It is true you can find porcelain products in the islands but no evidence has proven that Chinese settlements can be found prior to 1565. In fact, Chinese chronicles have written and warned about the natives of the islands as they practiced slavery and raids to Chinese merchants.

About the Indian influence, a Filipino expert on Indian relations is Dr. Juan Francisco who was educated and knew several Indian languages. His finding shows that prior to 1565 little or no direct contacts were found between the natives of the islands and those with Hinduism. The Indian influence came by from the Indonesian islands. No Brahmanic class can be found in our country prior to Spanish Philippines.

About Islam, this Islamic influence is great in Southern Philippines and I believe it is more significant with the Spanish, Chinese, and American influences. The rest of the natives as written by earlier accounts were tattooed, ate pork, drank liquor, and worshiped many gods. This is the opposite for Muslim Mindanao. This very antithesis of Islamic way of life can be seen with the natives of Luzón and Visayas. It is true that some regions in Manila were Muslim because Rajah Suliman had ties with the Sultanate of Sulu and the Sultanate of Brunei but his kingdom was a mere outpost of Islamization of the northern islands. Many of the inhabitants have not converted. You have to remember that the islands were under chiefdom's. Also, I should know about Islamic Filipinos because my grandfather is Muslim and an Imam.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to wall. I never doubted anyone that Philippines have a huge Austronesian ancestry. I'm not denying that! It also has a very prevalent Asian ancestry as well. The primary and first root of its culture stems from BOTH. Prove me wrong as much as you want, but that's how it worked. Then, the Spanish came.

Am I denying that the Spanish didn't give us that much? No. They helped us a lot. For most of you who can't hear that phrase that I keep saying, get it through now. I'm not denying it.

"A recent genetic study conducted by Stanford University Asia-Pacific Research Center indicates that 3.6% of Filipinos have European ancestry from either Spanish or United States colonization." - That comes from the Stanford Research Center.

There our degree of mestizaje is 3.6%. Happy? I even put it into a figure for you. People from Macau are also mixed as well, but you don't see them gloating about it, neither do you see them asking for Portugese to be their national language.

I'm not disagreeing with you either on Filipino architecture. A lot of people associate it that way, when in fact it's a pure Filipino innovation. I think it's a pity as well that it's disregarded and not used as much as it should be.

As far as Islam goes, it was never limited to the south. The South is where it took its stronghold, but Islam spread all throughout the Philippines. Let's consult the Encyclopedia of the Nations, the U.C. Berkeley history department, and a little Wikipedia for some authentication since Mercato doesn't believe anything I say unless I mention where I got it from. These quotes will come from those sources. Satisfied? "At the time of Magellan's visit, there were already established Malay and Muslim kingdoms existing independently from each other across the 7,100 islands of the Philippines ... Even though there were pygmy natives living in the Philippines before the Malay came; the pygmies were a nomadic people. They did not populate nor dominate the whole of the archipelago."

Also regarding the Islamic topic ... "Islam is one of the oldest organized religions to be established in the Philippines. Islam reached the islands in the 14th century with the arrival of Indian, Malay, Javanese, and Arab merchants and missionaries from various sultanates in the Malay Archipelago, although the spread of Islam in the Philippines is due to the strength of Muslim India." For a specific example in the North, I think you all know where Tondo, Manila is ... "Tondo is a district of Manila, Philippines. It was a Muslim principality and the hereditary stronghold of the Local Rajahs during the pre-colonial period."

Cheap or not cheap, the Philippines traded with China regardless. Let's go back to the Kingdom of Tondo again ... "It is one of the settlements mentioned by the Philippines' earliest historical record, the Laguna Copperplate Inscription. Originally an Indianized kingdom in the 10th century, Tondo initiated diplomatic ties with China during the Ming Dynasty, and thus became a dominant force in regional trade." After the Spanish came, Tondo was then subjugated to the capital of Manila.

Yes there were natives who ate pork etc. I'm not going to deny that there big native populations in the Philippines. Back in the 1400's there were big native populations everywhere, not just the Philippines. However, I'm definitely not going to say nothing existed before the Spanish came, because that is definitely false. There WERE big settled areas of the Philippines. Islam did take a big foothold in these settled areas too, and it did reach Luzon.

The other thing you have to realize, is that the contact the Philippines had with India is from Islamic India (read the above quote). The Islamic foothold that was gained in the Philippines was not mostly from Arab and Malay traders as most believe. It's actually from the part of Islamic India. India wasn't always all Hindu as most of you believe. That's why you don't find much evidence of Hindu in the Philippines. It wasn't there. Our contact is mostly of Islamic India. However, we do have some words in our language stemming from Hindi/Sanskrit etymology. Here's a few:

Bahagi (Bhag) - Part
Mukha (Mukha) - Face
Guro (Guru) - Teacher

etc.....

I'm trying to show that the evolution of the Philippines is not limited solely Austronesia (even though a lot of the Philippines stems from there). Look it's right here, "A further theory is that from about 6,000 years ago Austronesian people from China moved to Taiwan and later descendants sailed across the Bashi channel into northern Luzon." I'm not dumb, I know our oldest ancestors are Austronesian. I don't need it repeated to me another time. But cheap or not, the Philippines was also developed by East Asia, "earliest archeological evidence of trade between the Philippines and China takes the form of pottery and porcelain pieces dated to the Tang and Song Dynasties." The Philippines have been trading with East Asia. Spain does get credit for unifying the similar, yet different Thalassocracies of the Philippines.

Nay old chap, I should ask you the very same question? Are you really Filipino? Or North Asian? :lol::lol: All that slobbering for his Beijing masters. Pity, if you really are a Filipino Benedict Arnold. :lol:

Army, Navy or Air Force?? :lol::lol: [highlight in blue]

Hey, I thought you were fastidious and lectured me on the virtues of conciseness? Hell, álmost all your posts are a minimum of 1 kilometre long. :lol:

Hold on, all those quotes of yours do NOT have sources. I can see a great many injected prevarications there, boulderdash hah! :lol::lol: Ol' chap, at least the poster above you mentioned his sources. Now, get this clear. According to history, Zhen He never went to the Philippines. Now you say in your mysterious quotes that he did and further expanded the Palembang colony to reach the Philippines. Now why weren't these exploits recorded for posterity, eh??? :lol:

Have you ever heard of this wonderful US Institute called the National Geographic Society? These guys, together with the Human Genome Project [the labs are in Arizona and Texas], had begun classifications sometime this decade. Unfortunately for you, the Austronesian haplogroup type was declared separate and distinct from that of the Han Chinese. Need I say more? Austronesian to include Malaysia, Indonesia, Oceania, Madagascar and the Philippines. That is where the Philippine majority belongs, not to the mainland despite your wildest dreams.

I suggest you run along now to the nearest British council and get comprehension counselling coz you always seem to have me mistaken for someone else. :lol: I have absolutely no idea why you like bringing up the Spanish card when I never mentioned it in all my previous posts on this thread. Then again, for someone with just rudimentary skills on the language, what can I say? :lol::lol:

You're getting ridiculous. Laugh all you want, but I can't keep concise when I have two of you going after me at once. And the "conciseness lecture" applies to sentence length and diction, not post length.

By the way, I'm a college student. My parents chose to move to the U.S., so don't go complaining to me, Mr. Singapore.

In case you haven't noticed what I told you above, and what I've been telling you. Yes, a huge part of the Filipino genome dates back from our Austronesian ancestors settling to the Philippines. And then what? Did people stop coming? Was that the end? No. Come on, use some common sense here. Of course Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Malaysian, Chinese, Islamic Indian traders came to the Philippines, and some of them settled as well. Then in the 1570's the Spanish made a settlement and gave us 3.6% of our racial composition which makes us "Mestizo." It doesn't take a Genomic research center to figure out stuff as simple as this.

Slobbering to Beijing? Why don't you get your facts straight. I already told you I'm not Han Chinese. I already told you I don't like Chinese communism and how they treat their people. And I also said why does all of East Asia have to stem back to China with you? Did I not explicitly mention that the Philippines should also acquaint themselves with their East Asian neighbors? Note how I didn't say say ONLY with China. For your information, there are many other countries out there in East Asia besides China. But that also doesn't mean that the Philippines shouldn't have diplomatic ties with China, Taiwan (another Austronesian neighbor of ours), and other Chinese speaking areas.

Also, read my last post, I'll tell you where I'm getting my quotes from. Why would I lie and alter them? I can't believe you'd even think that I'd do that. I'm here to help preserve Filipino culture. Manipulating quotes would go contrary to anything I'm going for. That hurts. However, if anyone makes less sense, it's you with your undocumented facts supporting how the Philippines never existed before the Spanish came. I'm not only playing the Spanish card against those who want it as the national language because they don't think Tagalog functions enough as it is, I'm using it on your quote which states that nothing existed in the Philippines before the 1400's. False.

these exchanges speak volumes, so apt for this thread :lol:
one wants to be CHinese and the other side Mexicans. :lol::ohno:

^^ Na delete sa harddrive ata sila Lapu-lapu, Rajah Soliman, Lakandula and other rulers of the native Kingdoms. :lol:

Interesting point. However, whoever WAS there ... Chinese or not ... was Asian. If you look at the Filipino racial composition, I'm not seeing any African semblance in it. Yes there are Negritos, but they settled there beforehand, and they're not part of the first settlers who pushed them up into the mountains.

My main point here was to dispel Mercato's claim that before the Spanish came, the Philippines was nothing - which is absolutely false. This troglodyte has the bad habit of putting words into my mouth. Nowhere on this thread had I ever invoked the Spanish card yet he repeatedly insinuates again and again that I do. I dare you to show me where I invoked anything remotely hispanic??? Come on, answer the question. :lol:

Compared with the empires and the kingdoms surrounding us 500 years ago, the Khmers, the Thais, the Malay sultanates, the Ming Dynasty, Japan, the geographical area currently known as the Republic of the Philippines was but a collection of tribes, like how one would view Papua New Guinea today, just a collection of tribes and wilderness, is it really something to gloat about? No Angkor Wat, no Imperial Palace in the mould of the Old Peking or Tokyo, no Hindu monuments, no Taj Mahal, well... what then.?

these exchanges speak volumes, so apt for this thread :lol:
one wants to be CHinese and the other side Mexicans. :lol::ohno: I don't know about some desperate to become North Asian. A lot of these Fil Am kids who never grew up in the Philippines, knows very little of the feel and pulse of our regional cultures and languages suddenly turns down the pike and says they got all the answers. And I say we are Austronesian = my ancestors are Lapulapu, Dagohoy, Rajah Humabon, Si Katuna and Si Gala et al... :lol:

To epik:

Is this your only rebuttal? You lack the knowledge in an anthropological, historical and sociological point of view. Why don’t you go back to the UCB libraries and check the Gardner, Doe/Moffitt, and the University archives. I have spent most of my time in learning Philippine history there during my summers for the past couple of years. Let us define on your concept of the Philippines. What you do not understand or refuse to understand is that it was just a group of islands. It was never a united islands governed by a single authority. In fact, there were no Philippines prior to Islas Filipinas. Only a group of islands with chiefdom's. Would you refute this historical term?

Check the book of Benito J. Legarda, After the Galleons: Foreign Trade, Economic Change and Entrepreneurship in the Nineteenth-Century Philippines. Madison WI: University of Wisconsin Center for Southeast Asian Studies, 1999. The population of the Philippines in the late 16th century is only LESS than a million! The large settlements that you wrote about did not exist! You can ask an archeologist and also chairman of the Socio-Anthropological Department of the University of San Carlos in Cebú City Mr. José Eleazar Bersales in the Cebú Heritage thread and he will say the same that coastal settlements were common and only consisted of a few families. Yes, trade is already part of the native society’s commerce before the Spanish came but you must not forget that ports and commercial enterprise only came to be because of the Spaniards. These events benefited the native population as it allowed them to barter and participate in the worlds first global trade. Have you ever talked to economic historians? They would say that in world history the Philippines played an important role in linking three continents together: Asia, the Americas and Europe.

Economic historian Pierre Chaunu who wrote Les Philippines et le Pacifique des Ibériques, Paris, SEVPEN, 2 volumes, 1960-1966 said that the Philippines became le seul vrai but du monde (the only true end point of the world). Cultural amalgamations coming from the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, and the Pacific came and entered into our islands where it met and molded into what is a MESTIZAJE. Your point about the Stanford genetic result is a poor and lazy attempt to show your inconsistency and inability to comprehend correctly. About the Indian words in the Filipino diction: Have you ever realized that these words can only be found in the Tagalog language? This is true because the northern islands are closer to mainland Asia. Do you really believe this is representational to all the islands? I don’t think so.

I am not refuting the fact that we do have East Asian and other cultural influences from other Asiatic countries. But it is wrong to say that these were a result ONLY prior to Spanish Philippines. The cultural influences that we received came in huge numbers when the islands were administered in one STATE. Have you read your long post of East Asian glorification in what you wrote in your terms called: "mega culture of the natives"? Don't you agree that what the Austronesian native’s culture is also Asian? Or do you also fall to the stereotype that to be called Asian pertains only in regards to mainland Asia? Do you agree that Paradise was loss to the inhabitants because of these events? Fusion takes place in all complex cultures and ours is one of them. The foreign elements mixed with the Austronesian substratum, in the food, architecture, attire, religious practices, in the vast field of the arts, etc.

The Spaniards themselves are composed of this fusion/mestizaje from the Iberians, Celtics, Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, Jewish, Arabic, and its colonized areas influences and it reminded me of the Philippines. Our nation is more a like in the sense that both the colonizer and the colonized are a product of a mestizo culture. It was a reciprocal relationship. How boring it would be to be homogenously Chinese or Scandenavian, no? Hehe. To put it in a Philippine setting: what would our fiestas be without the flirting dance that we got from the Iberians? The jotas, fandangos, the paseos, lubi-lubi steps that are dance to Hispanic guitar melodies are not authentic enough to be Filipino? How boring it would be if we only know tribal dances.

Actually don’t take this personally. I think this is a healthy conversation unlike others here who have no idea and just troll around with one liners. It’s a great way for us to learn more about our country. ¡No hay mal que por bien no venga!

This troglodyte has the bad habit of putting words into my mouth. Nowhere on this thread had I ever invoked the Spanish card yet he repeatedly insinuates again and again that I do. I dare you to show me where I invoked anything remotely hispanic??? Come on, answer the question. :lol:

Compared with the empires and the kingdoms surrounding us 500 years ago, the Khmers, the Thais, the Malay sultanates, the Ming Dynasty, Japan, the geographical area currently known as the Republic of the Philippines was but a collection of tribes, like how one would view Papua New Guinea today, just a collection of tribes and wilderness, is it really something to gloat about? No Angkor Wat, no Imperial Palace in the mould of the Old Peking or Tokyo, no Hindu monuments, no Taj Mahal, well... what then.?

Eh sinunog ng mga Kastila ang mga bayan o barangay at halos naubos ang mga katutubo sa mga isla. Yung ibang Hari o Datu naman ay sumangayon sa intensiyon ng mga Kastila para kalabanin naman ang ibang panig ng katutubo.
If there was no rich history of the local inhabitants before the Spaniards came, then so be it. There were only a few written records of pre-colonial Philippines and some historians or so called experts listed down on this thread only got their information from third or fourth hand sources. Marami pa rin ang gustong maging kastilaloy dito at pinipilit na mag paputi kahit ulikba ang kulay ng balat. :D

Eh sinunog ng mga Kastila ang mga bayan o barangay at halos naubos ang mga katutubo sa mga isla. Yung ibang Hari o Datu naman ay sumangayon sa intensiyon ng mga Kastila para kalabanin naman ang ibang panig ng katutubo.
If there was no rich history of the local inhabitants before the Spaniards came, then so be it. There were only a few written records of pre-colonial Philippines and some historians or so called experts listed down on this thread only got their information from third or fourth hand sources. Marami pa rin ang gustong maging kastilaloy dito at pinipilit na mag paputi kahit ulikba ang kulay ng balat. :D Siguradong sigurado kang ulikba? :lol: I have a maternal great grandpa (Liao) straight out of Xiamen, China and one of the founding fathers of the Chong Hua Hospital in Cebu. But I am only Filipino para walang gulo. Minsan mas mabuti pa ngang Cebuano lang e. :jk: baka may maglupasay na naman diyan jejeje

Sagutin mo muna ang tanong ko. Isang tanong, isang sagot. Where on this IMSCF thread did I invoke anything Spanish? Hirap sa ibang clone accounts (hindi po kayo manong :lol:) dito lalo na yang mga lumaki sa ibang bansa at nagmamarunong na at alam na ang lahat tungkol sa bansang to.

@epik, before you spew forth another spanish accusation and shoot yourself in the foot, show me where on this thread did I invoke anything spanish? Stick to what's on this thread.

Typical trolls with nothing better than to do than hiding behind avatars and imposing their grand world visions on the rest of us. :lol: Some even make their awesome bedazzling careers on youtube. :lol: O sige na para sumaya ka, epik if you are hell bent on your vision, replace the poll here from Pacific islander to Chinese and see how many filipinos consider themselves to be Han Chinese.

@dessertfox: You made me want to bust out and whistle this lil'ditty (though I don't know how to whistle a freakin' tune to save my life!). :lol:

ACQTddaIO2s

...... Since the Philippines had no capital to rebuilt the post war economy kumapit sila sa patalim at ipinasa yong batas na pantay ang amerikano sa Filipino sa Pilipinas. In the end, the Philippines gets the money for the rebuilding and the American gets what they want by destroying the natural resources of the country. It was seem to be a good deal at the short run but in the long run the Philippines was the loser because the country was never industrialized and only few benefited.......

Definitely Agree!:cheers:

We can not just allow other regional languages and identities die right? It would be hard to really promote unity because there are many filipinos who are passionate about their own regionalistic identities first without denying their filipinoness albeit it's more of a second choice which is not necessarily wrong. It would be hard for the filipinos to replicate the american dream of democracy and unity simply because our beliefs and ways are very different from them. I for one has given up to see unity in the Philippines together with the economic progress for the mere fact that I am fully aware that it's hard no matter what language or attempt to unite the filipinos because there is always thiese "negative opinions" that lingers around us. Superficially, we live in harmony but a mere drop of a fuel could ignite huge flame and create conflicts. The filipinos are just really more passionate about something different and foreign that we tend to embrace those rather than our own. This is why we always fail as a nation and is at risk of losing out own identities.

Wow, thanks for your last posts epik ll ian on the issues about the Chinese trades in the Philippines in response to Sir Mercato on non existant Chinese and Native islanders in the Philippines prior to the Spanish colonialism. I think I do remember these in Philipine history books, I mean, not the text books in school only but elsewhere in a national library. My post centred only around the 14th century at the time of Admiral Zheng He, I see that you are also swayed that I ever invoked Spanish colonialism? ajajaja, the blind leading the blind.

Back in the land of the living are you? Interesting title, in first world countries people only address each other by first name. 'Tis only in third world countries where titles as Sir is still rampantly used. Very feudal, very heirarchical bad habit. That's one habit that ought to be changed in Phil. society.

nonetheless, thanks for the first 2 sentences on regional languages.

Kotong and tong-pats mentality.

You read about it in the papers but it's a real piss off when you get to confirm it in real life. :bash:

Kotong mentality is for the lower classes and tong-pats mentality is for the middle classes who want to make a quick buck.

Siguradong sigurado kang ulikba? :lol: I have a maternal great grandpa (Liao) straight out of Xiamen, China and one of the founding fathers of the Chong Hua Hospital in Cebu. But I am only Filipino para walang gulo. Minsan mas mabuti pa ngang Cebuano lang e. :jk: baka may maglupasay na naman diyan jejeje

Sagutin mo muna ang tanong ko. Isang tanong, isang sagot. Where on this IMSCF thread did I invoke anything Spanish? Hirap sa ibang clone accounts (hindi po kayo manong :lol:) dito lalo na yang mga lumaki sa ibang bansa at nagmamarunong na at alam na ang lahat tungkol sa bansang to.



That was just a figure of speech...

We are all Filipino, yung iba lang kako na nagpupumilit na masabing kalahi nila ang mga Zobel de Ayalas and some other mestizo elite families. o' diba, para masabi silang class at hindi ordinaryong Pinoy. :lol:

This thread is HOT! But, play nice, guys. I don't mind the longwinded responses (they are informative as well as entertaining) being volleyed here as long as everyone is respectful of each other's opinions and where they stand on the matter. Let us not descend into the destructive cycle of low blows, cheap shots, name calling, and excessive use of profanity just to make your point across the ideological divide.

Just a friendly reminder. :colgate:

^^^^ :lol:
That was just a figure of speech...

We are all Filipino, yung iba lang kako na nagpupumilit na masabing kalahi nila ang mga Zobel de Ayalas and some other mestizo elite families. o' diba, para masabi silang class at hindi ordinaryong Pinoy. :lol: mabait na muna ako ngayon kasi yung bago naming manager naman straight out of South Carolina, retired US Armed Forces Colonel. at dyed in the wool fan ng FOX News. Alam mo na... Filipino trait = balimbing :lol::lol:

Hmmm seriously,

"Hispanic country of Asia" (Do the majority even speak Spanish as their FIRST LANGUAGE?), "3rd largest English speaking country in the world" (Again, do the majority speak English as their FIRST LANGUAGE?)

What are other foolish claims can we gather just to prove that we are not simply Filipinos?

:lol:

Get real.


After reading a novel and rhetoric here, I'm always coming up with what I quoted earlier.

and i also wanted to add too, Mandarin is not widely spoken as the first language as well. :lol:

^^:lol: :hilarious

Its very informative and at the same time both side are hopefully learning from each other point of view.

As far as Islam goes, it was never limited to the south. The South is where it took its stronghold, but Islam spread all throughout the Philippines. Let's consult the Encyclopedia of the Nations, the U.C. Berkeley history department, and a little Wikipedia for some authentication since Mercato doesn't believe anything I say unless I mention where I got it from. These quotes will come from those sources. Satisfied? "At the time of Magellan's visit, there were already established Malay and Muslim kingdoms existing independently from each other across the 7,100 islands of the Philippines ... Even though there were pygmy natives living in the Philippines before the Malay came; the pygmies were a nomadic people. They did not populate nor dominate the whole of the archipelago."

Also regarding the Islamic topic ... "Islam is one of the oldest organized religions to be established in the Philippines. Islam reached the islands in the 14th century with the arrival of Indian, Malay, Javanese, and Arab merchants and missionaries from various sultanates in the Malay Archipelago, although the spread of Islam in the Philippines is due to the strength of Muslim India." For a specific example in the North, I think you all know where Tondo, Manila is ... "Tondo is a district of Manila, Philippines. It was a Muslim principality and the hereditary stronghold of the Local Rajahs during the pre-colonial period."

Yes there were natives who ate pork etc. I'm not going to deny that there big native populations in the Philippines. Back in the 1400's there were big native populations everywhere, not just the Philippines. However, I'm definitely not going to say nothing existed before the Spanish came, because that is definitely false. There WERE big settled areas of the Philippines. Islam did take a big foothold in these settled areas too, and it did reach Luzon.

The other thing you have to realize, is that the contact the Philippines had with India is from Islamic India (read the above quote). The Islamic foothold that was gained in the Philippines was not mostly from Arab and Malay traders as most believe. It's actually from the part of Islamic India. India wasn't always all Hindu as most of you believe. That's why you don't find much evidence of Hindu in the Philippines. It wasn't there. Our contact is mostly of Islamic India. However, we do have some words in our language stemming from Hindi/Sanskrit etymology. Here's a few:

Bahagi (Bhag) - Part
Mukha (Mukha) - Face
Guro (Guru) - Teacher

etc.....



this is BS. where are your evidence that islam spread throughout the country. maybe you should learn more about the excavations done at cebu's plaza independencia and boljoon, you can also check the artifacts from the other places in the country. check the museums, learn more about archeological finds of burial sites and you'll discover how hindu and animistic the people of luzon and the visayas and some parts of mindanao. go study some more, your knowledge seems to be limited to what you read from some books and then you made some assumptions.

@RayAdillO:

I'm not Filipino and I won't have any problem if my company send me to the Philippines for a while to work there.
But, I can't understand why do you say that we foreigners want to get the Filipino nationality.

Well Mr. Weird, when I speak of "foreign investors" I mean the potential thousands of mainland Chinese, because they are the ones close by, flexing their giant country's new economic muscle, in big numbers, with the huge potential to invest, with real big money enough to dominate the Philippines socially and politically. I'm not talking here about one, two or even a dozen Spaniards. So there's your clarification.

By the way, you should check the things properly.
Philippines, as an ex colony of Spain, has a special treat from the spanish government. You just need two years to get the spanish nationality (hence, the european) instead of the ten years that a chinese citizen would need.

I have been in Spain and the only time I ever saw other Filipinos was in Madrid. There are not that many Filipinos in Spain anyway, and we mix well with the locals, we are mostly catholic and socially conservative by euro standards, our foods are familiar, etc. Filipinos are not like many other immigrants who are culturally very different and do not intigrate into Spanish society and culture.

Filipinos remind Spaniards of their once "glorious empire" in the orient. The presence of a mild number of Filipinos living in Spain gives them a sense of the "exotic" without fear of being overwhelmed. Why on earth would the Spanish object to the presence of a few Filipinos?

But, nevertheless, Spain has a high rate of unemployment nowadays, and they don't kick out all the immigrants who don't have a job. So that's why I find very rude that "they can stay for the duration of their business project".

Spain has high unemployment and affordable housing is now impossible for both ordinary local Spaniards and legal immigrants, yet does nothing to control illegal immigration. Legal immigrants should not be "kicked out", but the government does almost nothing to stop illegal immigration, particularly from north africa.

Blame that on Zapatero, the PSOE and the other left wing parties in Spain. Next time vote for Rajoy, the Partido Popular, Falange Autentica or the Falange Española de las J.O.N.S.

PS: Thanks for the red and the capital letters but they are not necessary. I can read you the same without them ;)

Sorry Sir, THE RED CAPITAL LETTERED PHRASES, WORDS , AND SENTENCES ARE THERE FOR MY PLEASURE AND ENJOYMENT, not for any other reason.

Marami pa rin ang gustong maging kastilaloy dito at pinipilit na mag paputi kahit ulikba ang kulay ng balat. :D

It's a big business, hindi yan mawawala :lol::cheers::banana:

well if the Spaniards never came who knows where will be now. We would probable still be wearing bahags and grass skirts, climbing coconut trees like monkeys. thank god they came and colonized us.

^^ but the spaniards also made us live and think like we were in the dark ages, the culture and way of life in the philippines during spanish times was so medieval even up to latter days of their rule. Japans example of fighting off colonialism and industrializing on their own is the best example.

^^that was sarcastic, I personally love the south pacific "culture" ," lifestyle"
simple, free and one with nature. If we were never colonized we wouldn't have colonial mentality, tantamount to inferiority complex to anything white and our country would probably be better than the mess and hell it's in today. Of course the others would argue we wouldn't be a country but a tribal hodgepodge but i don't underestimate our grass wearing coconut tree climbing ancestors. By the way did you know that bawang puti is bawang putih in malay? :lol:

well if the Spaniards never came who knows where will be now. We would probable still be wearing bahags and grass skirts, climbing coconut trees like monkeys. thank god they came and colonized us.

i am thankful that the Spaniard were the one that colonized us, if the colonizers is the British (Anglo-Saxons) then perhaps Pinoy have suffered the fate of the American Indians, the Australian aborigines, the Maoris, etc.

It is also good that here there were not so many pure blooded Chinese Pinoy citizens and there were many mixed Chinese and Filipino that started during the Spanish era, otherwise there will be racial tensions today, like in Indonesia. In Indonesia everytime there is a revolution or radical change of government, the Chinese Indonesians always suffered a kind of Jewish holocaust.

Anyhow, they have nobody to blame except themselves, In Indonesia they controlled the whole economy and majority of Indonesians were reduced to selling cigarettes in the street, they were so mayabang and they never thought that the majority of Indonesians hated them, so when revolutions came the poor Indonesian masa strike back against their Chinese oppressors.

^^ I agree. There are two types of colonization, one is where the conquerors actually bring more and more of their own people to settle into their newly aqcuired territory, displacing the natives and eventually exterminating them, or leaving a small minority of natives left to be treated like aborigines.

This is like what the Americans did to the native indians. A similar case is Australia.

The other type is like what the Spanish did in the Philippines. They mostly just became bosses of the natives. They became landlords, priests, top government officials, and high officers in the military. Only very few Spanish people ever settled, leaving Filipinos as the vast majority of the population.

It is disturbing to think is that we "Filipinos" might have actually been guilty of being "colonizers" ourselves of the first type during pre-hispanic times. Is it possible that the "Malayo-Polynesian" or "Austronesian" race drove out these ethnic tribes like negritos, mangyans, etc. into the hills and jungles and then eventually came to dominate the Philippine archipelago?

Well Mr. Weird, when I speak of "foreign investors" I mean the potential thousands of mainland Chinese, because they are the ones close by, flexing their giant country's new economic muscle, in big numbers, with the huge potential to invest, with real big money enough to dominate the Philippines socially and politically. I'm not talking here about one, two or even a dozen Spaniards. So there's your clarification.


Clarified then. But you talked about foreign investors, and I reply to that. I can't be into your head :)



I have been in Spain and the only time I ever saw other Filipinos was in Madrid. There are not that many Filipinos in Spain anyway, and we mix well with the locals, we are mostly catholic and socially conservative by euro standards, our foods are familiar, etc. Filipinos are not like many other immigrants who are culturally very different and do not intigrate into Spanish society and culture.

Filipinos remind Spaniards of their once "glorious empire" in the orient. The presence of a mild number of Filipinos living in Spain gives them a sense of the "exotic" without fear of being overwhelmed. Why on earth would the Spanish object to the presence of a few Filipinos?


Yes, it's true that they mingle well. Anyway, Spain doesn't have any kind of limitation to the filipinos, they could be many more.
The thing is that you said that you said that you need to live here (EU) during the normal period to get the nationality, what it's totally false.
Maybe, you were referring to the chinese? In this case, once again, I can't be into your head to know what you're trying to say.


Spain has high unemployment and affordable housing is now impossible for both ordinary local Spaniards and legal immigrants, yet does nothing to control illegal immigration. Legal immigrants should not be "kicked out", but the government does almost nothing to stop illegal immigration, particularly from north africa.

Blame that on Zapatero, the PSOE and the other left wing parties in Spain. Next time vote for Rajoy, the Partido Popular, Falange Autentica or the Falange Española de las J.O.N.S.


Spain had always have a high unemployment rate and has been the country which has grown in EU in the past decade.
The houses are expensive, as in the UK, France, Italy, Netherlands or Germany, where many people live rented instead of be owners of their houses.
By the way, Spain do a lot of things to prevent the illegal immigration. It's an EU competence, actually, and we have many radars in southern Spain to intercept the boats. But, we do provide them medical services in Spain and we try to repatriate them instead of doing like Australia, which doesn't allow illegal boats to enter their coasts, no matter if people is dying on board.

Maybe are you referring to the last regulations of illegals? Well, those last regulations were given to provide the nationality to all those illegal workers in Spain, to help them, to give them rights, health system and the rest of rights that our Constitution gives to the citizens.
Or maybe are you referring to the last regulation of "sons of the War"? That's the one that we did to allow the return of many sons of spaniards who left the country because of the war.
So, as you see, the immigration is controlled -however is a big problem sometimes- and we only do exceptions, mostly with our former colonies.

It's easier for a filipino to get the spanish nationality, rather than for a french.

By the way, Falange Española de las J.O.N.S. and Falange Auténtica, are fascists parties and they didn't have not even a single seat in our Parliament since the end of the fascist dictatorship when they were the only parties allowed.


Sorry Sir, THE RED CAPITAL LETTERED PHRASES, WORDS , AND SENTENCES ARE THERE FOR MY PLEASURE AND ENJOYMENT, not for any other reason.

I know that is for your pleasure, but here we all read your messages and I think that it's more than enough if you just underline some words to make emphasis. What's next? A rainbow message?

PS: Quit the irony with all this Mr. and Sir stuff. Thanks :)

Clarified then. But you talked about foreign investors, and I reply to that. I can't be into your head :)

By the way, Falange Española de las J.O.N.S. and Falange Auténtica, are fascists parties and they didn't have not even a single seat in our Parliament since the end of the fascist dictatorship when they were the only parties allowed.

I can understand why these "ultra derecha" parties are out of favor in today's Spain, but don't you think Franco did more good things than bad for your people during his time, even if he was a dictator?

I know that is for your pleasure, but here we all read your messages and I think that it's more than enough if you just underline some words to make emphasis. What's next? A rainbow message?


It cannot be helped, YOU MAY CRITICIZE WHAT I WRITE, NOT HOW I WRITE THEM .

I can understand why these "ultra derecha" parties are out of favor in today's Spain, but don't you think Franco did more good things than bad for your people during his time, even if he was a dictator?


He did many bad things imo. Of course he did good things too, it's imposible imo to be just a bad person in all the senses. The question is if the good things that he did, couldn't be achieved with a democracy. And I think that it could be done with the same success with it.

Although, I'm not a defender of democracy because I don't find it perfect. It's the fairest system that we have out of all but definitely is not a fair system. Not all the opinions are equally important because not all the people know the same about all the topics, but the problem is how to establish a limit without fall into the tyranny. That's why I think that democracy, although is not the fairest, is the best option that we have and I prefer it over dictatorships.

Btw, let's talk about the Phils, before the mods get mad with this off topic ;)

^^that was sarcastic, I personally love the south pacific "culture" ," lifestyle"
simple, free and one with nature. If we were never colonized we wouldn't have colonial mentality, tantamount to inferiority complex to anything white and our country would probably be better than the mess and hell it's in today. Of course the others would argue we wouldn't be a country but a tribal hodgepodge but i don't underestimate our grass wearing coconut tree climbing ancestors. By the way did you know that bawang puti is bawang putih in malay? :lol: Thanks for my cue, crappypants :)

mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

Full credits to my friend hokulani78 from Honolulu.
Well, the linguistic similarities within the Malayo-Polynesian region are astounding and too extraordinary to be simply ignored. These must be further explored. I'm not saying we are Polynesian, no we are not. The Polys descended from us rather... behold the Austronesians... :)

Hokulani's sources:
MUSIC USED:
Samingad - Taiwanese Aboriginal Meeting Song
Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu - He'eia
Matatoa - Here Maohi

REFERENCES AND CITED FOR THIS VIDEO:
--Andaya, B. W. (1984). A History of Malaysia. Kuala Lumpur: Palgrave MacMillan.
--Armstrong, W. (1977). Around the World with a King. Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Company.
--Beckwith, M. (1977). Hawaiian Mythology. Honolulu: University of Hawai`i.
--Bellwood, P. (1996). Origins, Ancestry, Alliance, Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Paper prepared for Australian National University.
--Dixon, R. (1916) Oceanic Mythology. Boston: Marshall Jones Co.
--Donne, M. A. (1866). The Sandwich Islands and Her People. London: Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge.
--Dougherty, M. (1992). To Steal A Kingdom. Waimanalo: Island Press.
--Elson, R. E. (2008). The Idea of Indonesia A History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
--Fox, J. (2004). Current Developments in Comparative Austronesian Studies. Retrieved from Universitas Udayana of Bali. Paper presented at Symposium Austronesia Pascasarjana Linguististik dan Kajian Budaya.
--Fox, J. (edited) (2005) Origins, Ancestry, and Alliance: Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Canberra: Department of Anthroplogy, Australian Nation University.
--Gibson, Anne. (2001). The Peopling of the Pacific. Science Magazine: Official Magazine of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Issue of March 2, 2001. Pp 1735-1737.
--Greenhill, S.J., Blust. R, & Gray, R.D. (2008). The Austronesian Basic Vocabulary Database: From Bioinformatics to Lexomics. Evolutionary Bioinformatics, 4:271-283.
--Howe, K. R. 'Ideas of Māori origins', Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, Updated Oct. 28, 2008. Retrieved May 8, 2009. Web site : http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/NewZealander...
--Kalākaua, King D. (1972). Myths and Legends of Hawaii. Tokyo: Tuttle Company, Inc.
--Kuykendall, R. (1967). The Hawaiian Kingdom. 1874-1893: the Kalakaua Dynasty, Honolulu, University of Hawaii. viii, 764 p.
--Larson, G. Cucchic, T. Fujita, M. Matisoo-Smithe, E. Robinse, J. Anderson, A. Rolettg, B. Spriggs, M. Dolmani, G. Kim, T. Thi Dieu Thuyk, N. Randil, E. Dohertye, M. Awe Duem, R. Bollt, R. Djubiantonom, T. Bion Griffing, B. Intohn, M. Keanec, E. Patrick Kircho, P. Kuang-Ti Lip, K. Morwood, M. Pedriñar, L. Pipers, P. Ryan J. Rabettt, R. Shooteru, P. Van den Bergh, G. West, E. Wickler, S. Jing Yuan, J. Cooperi, A. & Dobney, K. (2007) Retrieved May 8, 2009. Phylogeny and ancient DNA of Sus provides insights into neolithic expansion in Island Southeast Asia and Oceania. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/104/12/48...
--Ricklefs, M.C. (1993). A history of Modern Indonesia Since c.1300. New York: The Macmillan Press LTD 1993, pp 7, 41,
--Salazar, Zeus. (1998). The Malayan Connection: Ang Pilipinas sa Dunia Melayu. Quezon City: Palimbagan ng Lahi.
--Westervelt, W. D. (1923). Hawaiian Historical Legends. New York: Fleming H Revell Co,.
--Westervelt, W. D. (1916). Hawaiian Legends of Ghosts and Ghost-Gods. Boston: Ellis Press.
--Winstedt, R. O. (1925). Shaman, Saiva and Sufi. London: Constable and Company, Ltd.
--Matisoo-Smith, E & Robins, J. H. (2004). Origins and dispersals of Pacific peoples: Evidence from mtDNA phylogenies of the Pacific rat Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/101/24/91... :banana:

i am thankful that the Spaniard were the one that colonized us, if the colonizers is the British (Anglo-Saxons) then perhaps Pinoy have suffered the fate of the American Indians, the Australian aborigines, the Maoris, etc.

It is also good that here there were not so many pure blooded Chinese Pinoy citizens and there were many mixed Chinese and Filipino that started during the Spanish era, otherwise there will be racial tensions today, like in Indonesia. In Indonesia everytime there is a revolution or radical change of government, the Chinese Indonesians always suffered a kind of Jewish holocaust.

Anyhow, they have nobody to blame except themselves, In Indonesia they controlled the whole economy and majority of Indonesians were reduced to selling cigarettes in the street, they were so mayabang and they never thought that the majority of Indonesians hated them, so when revolutions came the poor Indonesian masa strike back against their Chinese oppressors. I remember an article in the Straits Times last year. It was all praises for the Philippines as having the most tolerant culture in the Southeast Asian region, read = the Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippine triangle, when it came to the treatment of the overseas Chinese. You had taken up Indonesia. In Malaysia, the political spectrum is one run along racial and religious lines!!! If that is not a political powderkeg, I dunno what is. One political party for the Malay Muslims and bumis, another for the Christian\ Buddhist Chinese and a third party for the Indian Hindus. It goes without saying that the state of Singapore was kicked out of the Federation in the mid 60s coz the Establishment feared a combo Chinese Communist group ascending into power in the Peninsula. See, we are the most liberal and most tolerant nation in SE Asia due to our Christian culture!! :banana:

The article further explored this psychological unknown of the Malay psyche, Malays seem to have this tendency toward "running amok or amuck" exactly a Malay word adopted by the colonial Brits and Yanks when under severe pressure. In the Phils, the Spanish called it the juramentados. It conjures up images of a Malay brave suddenly bursting into a fit of anger wielding a sword, a kris or a bolo at someone.

Yes, but that's already an "internal" problem caused by ethnic and religious divisions within British India which long existed even before the British took over. The "partition" may not have been the wish of the Indian Congress Party or even Lord Mountbatten who was the last British viceroy of India, but it certainly was the ardent wish of Muhammad Ali Jinnah and his muslim followers.

Kung baga, the situation in the Indian subcontinent prior to the British colonization mirrored that of the pre-hispanic Philippine archipelago. India was already divided into many petty kingdoms, sultanates, and rajahs. It's the same with the Philippines. Only the common yoke of the western colonial power put these lands together under one political union.

But these are not really my point. What I was saying was that upon independence, there was really no "rider bill" written into either the modern Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, or Ceylonese constitutions designed specifically at preserving the economic priviledges of British citizens in those countries in a manner as previously enjoyed when they were still British colonies. The British really no longer had the muscle to impose them, nor did the newly independent countries formerly under British rule really need it. It was not like the situation the Philippines had at the end of WW2. Yea, I agree. The sun finally set upon the British Empire after 2 expensive world wars. The Europeans actually have Germany to thank for that. For having stoked 2 World Wars, Germany managed to nearly plunge European civilization near the abyss. It forever changed everything with the collapse of many empires and the independence of all but a few colonies. :)

But the British Raj were also hated in India. I think I recall that Lord Mountbatten was assassinated in India by a car bomb or somethin?

Thanks for my cue, crappypants :)

mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

Full credits to my friend hokulani78 from Honolulu.
Well, the linguistic similarities within the Malayo-Polynesian region are astounding and too extraordinary to be simply ignored. These must be further explored. I'm not saying we are Polynesian, no we are not. The Polys descended from us rather... behold the Austronesians... :)

Hokulani's sources:
MUSIC USED:
Samingad - Taiwanese Aboriginal Meeting Song
Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu - He'eia
Matatoa - Here Maohi

REFERENCES AND CITED FOR THIS VIDEO:
--Andaya, B. W. (1984). A History of Malaysia. Kuala Lumpur: Palgrave MacMillan.
--Armstrong, W. (1977). Around the World with a King. Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Company.
--Beckwith, M. (1977). Hawaiian Mythology. Honolulu: University of Hawai`i.
--Bellwood, P. (1996). Origins, Ancestry, Alliance, Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Paper prepared for Australian National University.
--Dixon, R. (1916) Oceanic Mythology. Boston: Marshall Jones Co.
--Donne, M. A. (1866). The Sandwich Islands and Her People. London: Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge.
--Dougherty, M. (1992). To Steal A Kingdom. Waimanalo: Island Press.
--Elson, R. E. (2008). The Idea of Indonesia A History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
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--Fox, J. (edited) (2005) Origins, Ancestry, and Alliance: Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Canberra: Department of Anthroplogy, Australian Nation University.
--Gibson, Anne. (2001). The Peopling of the Pacific. Science Magazine: Official Magazine of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Issue of March 2, 2001. Pp 1735-1737.
--Greenhill, S.J., Blust. R, & Gray, R.D. (2008). The Austronesian Basic Vocabulary Database: From Bioinformatics to Lexomics. Evolutionary Bioinformatics, 4:271-283.
--Howe, K. R. 'Ideas of Māori origins', Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, Updated Oct. 28, 2008. Retrieved May 8, 2009. Web site : http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/NewZealander...
--Kalākaua, King D. (1972). Myths and Legends of Hawaii. Tokyo: Tuttle Company, Inc.
--Kuykendall, R. (1967). The Hawaiian Kingdom. 1874-1893: the Kalakaua Dynasty, Honolulu, University of Hawaii. viii, 764 p.
--Larson, G. Cucchic, T. Fujita, M. Matisoo-Smithe, E. Robinse, J. Anderson, A. Rolettg, B. Spriggs, M. Dolmani, G. Kim, T. Thi Dieu Thuyk, N. Randil, E. Dohertye, M. Awe Duem, R. Bollt, R. Djubiantonom, T. Bion Griffing, B. Intohn, M. Keanec, E. Patrick Kircho, P. Kuang-Ti Lip, K. Morwood, M. Pedriñar, L. Pipers, P. Ryan J. Rabettt, R. Shooteru, P. Van den Bergh, G. West, E. Wickler, S. Jing Yuan, J. Cooperi, A. & Dobney, K. (2007) Retrieved May 8, 2009. Phylogeny and ancient DNA of Sus provides insights into neolithic expansion in Island Southeast Asia and Oceania. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/104/12/48...
--Ricklefs, M.C. (1993). A history of Modern Indonesia Since c.1300. New York: The Macmillan Press LTD 1993, pp 7, 41,
--Salazar, Zeus. (1998). The Malayan Connection: Ang Pilipinas sa Dunia Melayu. Quezon City: Palimbagan ng Lahi.
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--Winstedt, R. O. (1925). Shaman, Saiva and Sufi. London: Constable and Company, Ltd.
--Matisoo-Smith, E & Robins, J. H. (2004). Origins and dispersals of Pacific peoples: Evidence from mtDNA phylogenies of the Pacific rat Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/101/24/91... :banana:

Wow, the Austronesians are awesome. They conquered the vastness of the oceans long before the European. They have spread far and wide to establish their civilizations through their pioneering and undying spirit.

Yea, I agree. The sun finally set upon the British Empire after 2 expensive world wars. The Europeans actually have Germany to thank for that. For having stoked 2 World Wars, Germany managed to nearly plunge European civilization near the abyss. It forever changed everything with the collapse of many empires and the independence of all but a few colonies. :)

But the British Raj were also hated in India. I think I recall that Lord Mountbatten was assassinated in India by a car bomb or somethin?

The Rajs were hated because they were created by the British as local aristocrat and puppet of the British to control the local people and to consolidate their tight hold on the Indian continent.

For correction Mercato Mounbatten was killed by a bomb planted on his boat while boating in Southwest England by the Irish Liberation Army of Nothern Ireland.

The Austronasian were the first great seafaring peoples. Our Ancestor have been exploring the biggest ocean long before the European or the Chinese. Their skilled as navigator and mariner are unparallel in the world, they colonized the pacific and part of Indian ocean w/o the used of the compass. Just by studying the waves of the ocean and the star at night they travel and explore vast ocean before the European could do so with the help of compass and modern navigating tools.

^^ I agree. There are two types of colonization, one is where the conquerors actually bring more and more of their own people to settle into their newly aqcuired territory, displacing the natives and eventually exterminating them, or leaving a small minority of natives left to be treated like aborigines.

This is like what the Americans did to the native indians. A similar case is Australia.
Yup.

The other type is like what the Spanish did in the Philippines. They mostly just became bosses of the natives. They became landlords, priests, top government officials, and high officers in the military. Only very few Spanish people ever settled, leaving Filipinos as the vast majority of the population.
And throughout South America as well. But there seemed to be more settling and intermarriages there compared to us, leading to the creation of a large mestizo creolepopulation there.

There is a third method - assimilation. The native people are not eliminated, but absorbed into the greater collective culture. Their own culture, however, vanishes, swamped by the perceptively more advanced one of the conquerors. Oftentimes this need not even be enforced from the top down, but is rather a slow gradual process undertaken by the conquered people themselves, all in an effort to fit in better into the "more advanced" greater culture. If there is any consolation, for its part the conqueror's culture is also enriched by the absorbtion of fresh new elements.

The Roman conquest of Gaul, Iberia, North Africa etc. is a prime example of this. (Roman culture itself however was swamped by that of the conquered Greeks.) The Chinese conquest of "core" China (the Han territories) are another. Remember they only started out as tiny settlements along the Yellow River. All the other areas like the Yangtze valley, Szechuan, Guangdong, Fujian etc. were once home to other kingdoms and cultures, which have long vanished and are known to us only through history and archaeology.

It is disturbing to think is that we "Filipinos" might have actually been guilty of being "colonizers" ourselves of the first type during pre-hispanic times. Is it possible that the "Malayo-Polynesian" or "Austronesian" race drove out these ethnic tribes like negritos, mangyans, etc. into the hills and jungles and then eventually came to dominate the Philippine archipelago?
Sadly, that is precisely what happened.

The Austronasian were the first great seafaring peoples. Our Ancestor have been exploring the biggest ocean long before the European or the Chinese. Their skilled as navigator and mariner are unparallel in the world, they colonized the pacific and part of Indian ocean w/o the used of the compass. Just by studying the waves of the ocean and the star at night they travel and explore vast ocean before the European could do so with the help of compass and modern navigating tools.
Indeed. However I have always wondered why they only colonized islands and never major continental landmasses. Is it because they encountered people already living there and guessed that they cannot outfight these people who even if are more primitive come in far superior numbers?

Wow, the Austronesians are awesome. They conquered the vastness of the oceans long before the European. They have spread far and wide to establish their civilizations through their pioneering and undying spirit.

Yes, they were truly the sons and daughters of the sea. I believe that is why most of them lived in coastal settlements like our ancestors in the pre-Hispanic Philippines. :) Mercato thanks for sharing the video. Let us see if someone would say we are wannabe Pacific islanders. LoL :D Also, our friend from Palau chew bettle nuts and spits the juice out. Hehe, my mother said it was common practice in Davao del Sur for the elderly to do so. But it really is nasty to look at. LoL

American antropologist Lavenda and Schultz puts the Philippines as part of Oceania. Also, in the 19th century the Philippines/Islas Filipinas was part and center of the area called Oceanía Española.

Source: Authentic Though Not Exotic: Essays on Filipino Identity by Prof. Fernando Nakpil Zialcita (http://books.google.com/books?id=PEy9G-HLokwC&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=Lavenda+Schulz++Philippines+Oceania+cultural&source=bl&ots=0ipTMT8H4u&sig=Ck7gMFLOcGqpPy227HMUdzpLCrk&hl=en&ei=MYd6SvmCDI-YsgOi-rnHDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

these exchanges speak volumes, so apt for this thread :lol:
one wants to be CHinese and the other side Mexicans. :lol::ohno:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Yeah, you can only wonder why......LMAO

The Austronasian were the first great seafaring peoples. Our Ancestor have been exploring the biggest ocean long before the European or the Chinese. Their skilled as navigator and mariner are unparallel in the world, they colonized the pacific and part of Indian ocean w/o the used of the compass. Just by studying the waves of the ocean and the star at night they travel and explore vast ocean before the European could do so with the help of compass and modern navigating tools.


By the way, can you pls show us the link about the ancient Austronesian navigator.

i am thankful that the Spaniard were the one that colonized us, if the colonizers is the British (Anglo-Saxons) then perhaps Pinoy have suffered the fate of the American Indians, the Australian aborigines, the Maoris, etc.

It is also good that here there were not so many pure blooded Chinese Pinoy citizens and there were many mixed Chinese and Filipino that started during the Spanish era, otherwise there will be racial tensions today, like in Indonesia. In Indonesia everytime there is a revolution or radical change of government, the Chinese Indonesians always suffered a kind of Jewish holocaust.

Anyhow, they have nobody to blame except themselves, In Indonesia they controlled the whole economy and majority of Indonesians were reduced to selling cigarettes in the street, they were so mayabang and they never thought that the majority of Indonesians hated them, so when revolutions came the poor Indonesian masa strike back against their Chinese oppressors.

I would have preferred none of them colonized us, period. Also just by mere observation it would seem those countries colonized by the British are generally more progressive economically compared to countries colonized by Spain.
Even if the Chinese came in droves or comprise a large segment of our population I don't think there would have been racial riots, per Mercato we are one of the most peaceful, tolerant people in the world. I don't know how much of that is due to Christianity brought by Spain, the Austronesian/ Pacific Islander peoples are known to be "gentle peoples" .
Anyway there are billions of Chinese it's inevitable they will take over the whole SE asia just by sheer number in their size, It's already happened in Taiwan, Malaysia , Singapore etc.

oh shi-- not this we are pacific islander crap again.. lolol so indonesians and malaysian and people in madagascar are pacific islander too then. And the philippines is a part of oceania? lolol dats amazing! :lol:

oh, yep im of mexican descent many say we are spanish but its wrong we are not coz we did not come from spain but from mexico. if u think im a wannabe mexican u can talk to my family if u want and u can get our dna sample and blood test if u want. :lol:

^^don't you know we are pacific islanders since majority of our people are austronesian.
You are aztec then.

^^don't you know we are pacific islanders since majority of our people are austronesian.
You are aztec then.

so indonesians are pacific islanders too then and people in madagascar? :ohno:

^^ somebody hadn't watched the vid in its entirety...
Pacific Islander is a term coined by the United States Census Bureau. It is a rather limited term only meant for Census, nothing more.

The real scientific term used by modern geneticists today is Austronesian. Every respectable genetics lab use the term. Everything is there on the vid. That is why there is such a term as Malayo Polynesian. The 2 branches are genetically the same, the coin was but a colonial instrument meant to put a wedge between the 2 peoples.
Indeed. However I have always wondered why they only colonized islands and never major continental landmasses. Is it because they encountered people already living there and guessed that they cannot outfight these people who even if are more primitive come in far superior numbers? I can only guess, but I think it is primarily due to the seafaring culture which became specialized but which also prevented the Austronesians from going inland into the continents. They were so well adapted to the sea that they found it harder to establish inland. Also, there were the established kingdoms and empires already of China, Siam, Japan, the Khmers, etc... does it sound plausible?

@animo, ur welcome
@crappypants, yes we are austronesian and by reputation supposedly gentle people but cultures can have a huge impact as well. The racial riots in Malaysia and Indonesia were established fact and part of their histories already. We also have a genetic link to that branch of our austronesian brothers, the malays. Even in colonial Phils under the spanish and americans, they had words for this malay behaviour = juramentado and amuck, respectively. So it did happen in our country too but mostly in the deep Phil. South.

As to Christianity, regardless of who brought it, Portuguese Chrisitianity, British Christianity or Spanish Christianity, all cultures with dominant christian populations are tolerant. :)

so indonesians are pacific islanders too then and people in madagascar? :ohno:

well pacific islander is just a term to group a related set of people. I guess your context of the word is geography. Indonesians, madagascar and those easter island peoples of South America are genetically related so I would group them with the Pacific islander.
We are pacific islanders damn it! :lol:

I would have preferred none of them colonized us, period. Also just by mere observation it would seem those countries colonized by the British are generally more progressive economically compared to countries colonized by Spain.
Even if the Chinese came in droves or comprise a large segment of our population I don't think there would have been racial riots, per Mercato we are one of the most peaceful, tolerant people in the world. I don't know how much of that is due to Christianity brought by Spain, the Austronesian/ Pacific Islander peoples are known to be "gentle peoples" .
Anyway there are billions of Chinese it's inevitable they will take over the whole SE asia just by sheer number in their size, It's already happened in Taiwan, Malaysia , Singapore etc.


Yes more progressive but where is the original native population ? near to extinction ?

In New Zealand the whites (Britisher) make NZ a progressive country but in the 18th and 19th Century they have killed / poisoned the native Maoris, Now the native Maoris of New Zealand were the minority if not decimated to large degree.

Australia same story, the British killed / poison the Aborigines in the 18th and 19th century and now near to extinction. Of course Australia at present is progressive.

Canada, same stories, the native American Indians were the minority, who knows how many were killed by the British colonizer.

U.S. same stories as above.

look at it this way starting with this all abu-sayyaf are muslim but not all muslims are abu-sayyaf

same with all pacific islanders are austronesians but not all austronesians are pacific islanders.... and yeah we filipinos are not fukin pacific islanders that the dumbest most fil-ams in US are getting into making stupid ass hip-hop gangs saying they are islanders lolol. Many also justify it as reason why they be gettinn fat coz they say they got pacific islander genes... wahahah lolol

:lol:

yes more progressive.
In New Zealand the whites (Britisher) make NZ a progressive country but in the 18th and 19th Century they have killed / poisoned the native Maoris, Now the native Maoris of New Zealand were the minority if not decimated to large degree.

Australia same stories, the British killed poison the Aborigines in the 18th and 19th century and now near to extinction. Of course Australia at present is progressive.

Canada, same stories, the native American Indians were the minority, who knows how many were killed by the British colonizer.

U.S. same stories as above. Progressive also but at what cost ?
by killing the natives.

that would never have happened because the population of the native Filipinos was already huge for them to commit genocide. If not we could have been the 51st state.

Thanks for my cue, crappypants :)

mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

Full credits to my friend hokulani78 from Honolulu.
Well, the linguistic similarities within the Malayo-Polynesian region are astounding and too extraordinary to be simply ignored. These must be further explored. I'm not saying we are Polynesian, no we are not. The Polys descended from us rather... behold the Austronesians... :)

Hokulani's sources:
MUSIC USED:
Samingad - Taiwanese Aboriginal Meeting Song
Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu - He'eia
Matatoa - Here Maohi



IOW, filipinos are not asians but polynesians related to the pacific islanders and the austronesians.

look at it this way starting with this all abu-sayyaf are muslim but not all muslims are abu-sayyaf

same with all pacific islanders are austronesians but not all austronesians are pacific islanders.... and yeah we filipinos are not fukin pacific islanders that the dumbest most fil-ams in US are getting into making stupid ass hip-hop gangs saying they are islanders lolol. Many also justify it as reason why they be gettinn fat coz they say they got pacific islander genes... wahahah lolol

:lol:

the proof of the pudding and the dnas is the phenotype . If you look at majority of untainted pinoys they would look like a bit smaller version of pacific islanders. Now if you see a big fat pinoy there is no way in hell he would stand out if you place him in Samoa or easter island, yap or what not.

well lets just let the poll speak for itself.. :P i can't believe those 39 who voted.. they must have been drunk or high. :lol:

IOW, filipinos are not asians but polynesians related to the pacific islanders and the austronesians. Filipinos are still Asian. But there are many varieties of Asian. The austronesians were aborigines from Taiwan and Taiwan is part of Asia. But there are many kinds of Asians. North Asians and we are the southeast asians. Other asians are the Indians, Persians, Turks, Kazakhs, etc. It gets confusing coz some say the Polys are the dominant group, no they are not. They descended from us not the other way around. The arrows of migration showed it all came from Taiwan down toward Luzon and spread around.

Poor taiwanese natives got eaten up by mainland Chinese. No wonder though the taiwanese are the best looking Chinese satellite state by far. I also read somewhere the native okinawans are somewhat related to us.

yep like i said all pacific islander are austronesian but not all austronesian are pacific islander.. they are a split off from the austronesian branch. Yep we are related but we are not the same as them.

Poor taiwanese natives got eaten up by mainland Chinese. No wonder though the taiwanese are the best looking Chinese satellite state by far. I also read somewhere the native okinawans are somewhat related to us.

the okinawans are very much related to the aborigines of taiwan. even those that are in ryukyu islands are related to the taiwanese aborigenes.

yep like i said all pacific islander are austronesian but not all austronesian are pacific islander.. they are a split off from the austronesian branch. Yep we are related but we are not the same as them.

nobody is ever the same unless they're identical twins or clones but if they came from us then we are their parents and they are us.

nobody is ever the same unless they're identical twins or clones but if they came from us then we are their parents and they are us.

no, they are not they are polynesians we are not :nuts:

its like saying native indians are also central asian because they came from central asia... they maybe related but still different lolol

I don't like spanish and americans,madami silang genocide at mga atrocities na ginawa sa bayan natin.

the proof of the pudding and the dnas is the phenotype . If you look at majority of untainted pinoys they would look like a bit smaller version of pacific islanders. Now if you see a big fat pinoy there is no way in hell he would stand out if you place him in Samoa or easter island, yap or what not.

Pacific Islanders like the Samoans have this very distinct features, particularly their big bone structures. The shape of the nose and lips are big and thicker, their hair are normally coarser while pinoys hair are just wavey to straight. Some of the skinny pacific Islanders looks like a cross between pinoys and dark skinned mexicans IMO.

I don't like spanish and americans,madami silang genocide at mga atrocities na ginawa sa bayan natin.

Naku iho, huwag nang mabuhay sa nakaraan. Hindi kasalanan ng mga apu-apohan ang kagagawan ng kanilang ninuno....

Naku iho, huwag nang mabuhay sa nakaraan. Hindi kasalanan ng mga apu-apohan ang kagagawan ng kanilang ninuno....

tama ka, masamang mabuhay sa nakaraan, ngunit masama ang makalimot/lumimot sa nakaraan;)

I don't like spanish and americans,madami silang genocide at mga atrocities na ginawa sa bayan natin.

:nono: Tsk..tsk..tsk..don't even go there, unless you wanna open a heaping can of whoop-ass. :ohno:

The balangay sets sail once again.

gvBjrw8chdk

^^

It's in the history books anyway, a unit from Nebraska laid waste to a whole community in one of our provinces, killing fields type of atrocity, all because they didn't know who the enemy was so they decided to kill everybody.

I think it's important to remember these things even if they're sensitive subjects. It's like remembering the Holocaust, it must be touched upon every now and then so we remember the mistakes of the past and not repeat it.

It's a process though, a young person reads about history and gets pissed at the Spanish and Americans. And then he gets more knowledge and matures and finds that his hate is out of place. And then he makes sure the younger generation also knows what he knows.

The balangay sets sail once again.

gvBjrw8chdk

That's what a balangay looks like?.......no sails?

ever seen a pambot? haha :D

tadaah, mexicana or filipina?

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs159.snc1/5935_233879535018_779970018_8281669_1547993_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs139.snc1/5935_231392430018_779970018_8226777_2856175_n.jpg

That's what a balangay looks like?.......no sails?

Siguro doon nanggaling yung bahala na attitude and OFW mentality. Without sails, they let the water and wind currents take them to undiscovered, outlying islands on the Pacific. Nakikipagsapalaran nalang.

:lol::lol:

That's what a balangay looks like?.......no sails?

Have you been at sea rowing even for an hour ?

The original settlers used a balangay with sails otherwise how can they sail the seas. nag sasagwan lang and depends on the water currents and die of hunger at sea ?

They used a sail.

That is common sense for seafaring peoples before the inventions of boat engine.

Siguro doon nanggaling yung bahala na attitude and OFW mentality. Without sails, they let the water and wind currents take them to undiscovered, outlying islands on the Pacific. Nakikipagsapalaran nalang.

:lol::lol:

Every navigators or seafarers even during the ancient times have their courses
and / or destinations. Then they may discover an islands or anything on their
voyage to destination.

They cannot rely on currents alone since currents may bring them to dangerous
grounds. They can also rely on the winds and the sails. The boat can sail to any
direction using the sail and the wind for power. And they used the stars, planets,
and other celestial bodies as reference in their navigation.

Below is the chart (map) of Pacific Ocean currents.
The Green curving arrows is the direction of the currents.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/oceancurrentchart.jpg


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/oceancurrentchart2.jpg


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af217/cris46/winds.jpg

Have you been at sea rowing even for an hour ?

The original settlers used a balangay with sails otherwise how can they sail the seas. nag sasagwan lang and depends on the water currents and die of hunger at sea ?

They used a sail.

That is common sense for seafaring peoples before the inventions of boat engine.

Just kidding, matey. I'm just a landlubber myself....har, har, har

tadaah mexicana or filipina :p

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v229/862/113/n779970018_6753.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs199.snc1/6735_224061795018_779970018_8044803_5986701_n.jpg

Every navigators or seafarers even during the ancient times have their courses
and / or destinations. Then they may discover an islands or anything on their
voyage to destination...

Thanks for clarifying but I presume everybody knows that I was only riding along with my last post. :lol:

A Filipino mentality that I think everybody can relate with:

We have no culture of trust because honesty is a rare commodity. Like commodity, honesty have real economic value. It is where the credit system is based upon - contracts are honored, loans are made, laws are observed, relationships are established and etc. This mindset pervades personal and business. The constant violation of trust for personal gain undermines human and economic development and is one of the causes of graft and corruption.

Either you're the actor or the victim in the exploitation game where trust is non-existent. Kaya hirap umasenso ang Pinoy.

^^ You're half Filipino and half Dutch, therefore you're mestiza, which would make you tend to look more like a Mexican as oppose to a native Filipino.

Treasonous EO


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 01:14:00 08/13/2009

Heavy with petty quips (like a column in a weekly tabloid) President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo’s State of the Nation Address was light on substance.

She claimed that the “economy posted uninterrupted growth for 33 quarters and more than doubled in size to $186 billion during her 8 ½ years in power.” But the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), in its last Philippine Strategy Report, stated: “40 percent of the Philippine population, approximately 36 million people, live on less than $2 a day. The poorest areas of the country are concentrated in conflict-affected areas of Mindanao where up to 70 percent of the population lives in poverty.”

The USAID added: “(T)he Philippines has had a relatively weak investment climate and has failed to attract a significant share of foreign direct investment, ” averaging only 14 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) since 2000, one of the lowest in the region. The report stated further: “Despite moderately strong growth of the GDP and an improved fiscal balance in recent years, the Philippines has been overtaken by Malaysia, Thailand, and China on a GDP per capita basis.”

The July 28 issue of the Inquirer summed up Arroyo’s claimed achievements in the economy: “(Her) fiscal measures protected the economy from global downturn, tamed inflation, created 8 million jobs and reduced by 2 million the number of poor people in the country.” The USAID missed these in its report. The fiscal measures referred to are the expanded value added tax (EVAT), which raised the VAT from 10 percent to 12 percent and applied the EVAT on oil and power. The enactment of the EVAT was, in fact, a debt condition of the World Bank-International Monetary Fund (WB-IMF), designed to reinforce Philippine capacity for debt service. Of course, noodles for school children and cash doles or rice rations for some adults were also funded with EVAT.

During its eight-and-a-half years in office, the Arroyo regime governed the economy as an agent of the WB-IMF, enforcing the WB-IMF debt conditions, not the nationalist mandates of the constitution.
:bash::bash:
These debt conditions are based on free trade, as prescribed by the Group of 8, and consist of liberalization, deregulation, privatization and level playing field. Pursuant to these debt conditions, the Electric Power Industry Reform Act (Epira), which socialized (passed on to the Filipino people) all the liabilities of the National Power Corp. but privatized (sold to cronies and transnational corporations) all its assets, was enacted. Already a law for months now, the Cheaper Medicines Act has not benefited Filipinos up to this day. The executive order, recently signed by Ms Arroyo, imposing mandatory price caps will take effect this coming Aug. 15 yet and applies only to five drugs. It even exempts some drug firms.

Treason.

—AMADO GAT INCIONG
Unit 301 Union Square Condominium
#145 15th Avenue, Cubao,
Quezon City

As it shows, it's even Marcos pala who first bothered at all to alter the 1935 constitution.

What the hell happened? It is obvious that there became a socio-political degeneration that cannot be so easily dismissed as a product of neocolonialism.

Everybody should know this, that this provision was removed during the constitutional convention in 1972. That convention is being too vilified as to what led to Martial Law and its good points have been missed.

I'm sure there is an economic treatise somewhere that discusses what happened after that (from the time 'the Philippines was ahead of Japan' to the 80s). I kind of remember that I read somewhere that this was just a myth, that even though RP was ahead of Japan at that time, we were really in decline already from then.

Myth or not, this is a collective "what could've been" that we should stop perpetuating, it been almost 50 years since the 1960s, get over it.

IMO lang ano...i think hindi na relevant ang thread na to...dahil ngayon internationalism na...kaya nga lahat puro global na iniisip...pag nationalism lang talo...dapat ang mga pinaglalaban ay hindi na sahod itaas presyo ibaba, imperyalismo ibagsak ibagsak ibagsak, o di kaya patalsikin ang kano...umuso na yun nung 60s hanggang ngayon pa ba naman yan pa rin sinisigaw ng mga raliyista....ay sus para tayo nitong mga heping kulelat :lol:

How about Arabic XD people often think that I'm Arab :ohno:

IMO lang ano...i think hindi na relevant ang thread na to...dahil ngayon internationalism na...kaya nga lahat puro global na iniisip...pag nationalism lang talo...dapat ang mga pinaglalaban ay hindi na sahod itaas presyo ibaba, imperyalismo ibagsak ibagsak ibagsak, o di kaya patalsikin ang kano...umuso na yun nung 60s hanggang ngayon pa ba naman yan pa rin sinisigaw ng mga raliyista....ay sus para tayo nitong mga heping kulelat :lol:

Or lahat na lang ng presidente tuta ng amerikano? :lol:

It's obvious that those people have other agendas kaya pare pareho na lang sinisigaw nila decade after decade. Kawawa yung mga batang namundok at hindi na nakabalik. Anyways, that's another topic altogether.

However, for me this is a relevant thread since in my opinion, we can be global but still have a sense of nationalism. In the end we have to go back to our roots, as evidenced by threads discussing identity and "lost" Filipinos who don't know their place in this world.

^^ To my eyes, you don't look Arabic. Unless you consider Arabs of Turkish, Lebanese, and Iranian descent, which are kinda more caucasian looking than the typical Arabs on the Arabian peninsula and northern Africa.

IMO lang ano...i think hindi na relevant ang thread na to...dahil ngayon internationalism na...kaya nga lahat puro global na iniisip...pag nationalism lang talo...dapat ang mga pinaglalaban ay hindi na sahod itaas presyo ibaba, imperyalismo ibagsak ibagsak ibagsak, o di kaya patalsikin ang kano...umuso na yun nung 60s hanggang ngayon pa ba naman yan pa rin sinisigaw ng mga raliyista....ay sus para tayo nitong mga heping kulelat :lol:

Pasenysa na, pero sablay na, maling mali pa argumento mo.:cheers:

Wag kang magagalit pero yang internationalism mo ang talo at naglugmok sa Pilipinas.

Puro global iniisip kaya pala hanggang ngayon kulelat pa rin ang Pinas .(check the world competitiveness report.We are far behind. We have one of the most liberalized a.k.a. economy in Asia and yet we pale in comparison with ultra-nationalistic and neo-mercantilist read:patriotic, countries Japan and Korea)

Malinaw, kahit Amerika, yung sobrang tindi ng nasyonalismo ng bansang tulad ng Japan, Korea, Germany at France ay nagtulak sa kanila na maging mayaman at maunlad na bansa.

Napaka relevant ng thread na ito. At yung internationalism at global mo ang syang nagiging dahilan ng pagkabulok at pulubi ng PInas.

Sana magbasa ka muna ng mga karanasan ng mayayamang bansa bago mo sabihin yang internationalism at global (pagbibigay diin)na sa totoo ay walang nagawang mabuti sa bansa natin.:ohno:

opinyon ko lang, bro.Pasensya na.Peace tayo.:):cheers:

PS

Gusto mong yumaman ang bansang Pilipinas, dapat suportahan ang makabayang ekonomiya!

At payo ko sa iyo, magbasa ka ukol sa nasyonalismo at kalagahan nito.:):cheers:

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/images/stories/Daily_Images/2009/August/08202009/oped-pic.jpg
Business Mirror
August 19, 2009

This shows that the US and EU are coming up with legislation to protect their local BPO industries.
Plain and simple, these industrialized countries will readily junk globalization to portect their economic interests.

Nationalism is relevant and the following are recent examples as to how Western Countries liberally used it.


Economic nationalism is a term used to describe policies which emphasize on domestic control of the economy, labor and capital formation, even if this requires the imposition of tariffs and other restrictions on the movement of labour, goods and capital. It is in opposition to globalization in many cases, or at least it questions the benefits of unrestricted free trade. Economic nationalism may include such doctrines as protectionism and import substitution.

Examples of this include Henry Clay's American System (economic system), Japan's use of MITI to "pick winners and losers", Malaysia's imposition of currency controls in the wake of the 1997 currency crisis, China's controlled exchange of the yuan, Argentina's economic policy of tariffs and devaluation in the wake of the 2001 financial crisis and the United States' use of tariffs to protect domestic steel production.

Instances became more visible from 2005 after several governments intervened to prevent takeovers of domestic firms by foreign companies. Some cases include:

* ~ Proposed takeover of Arcelor (France and Luxembourg) by Mittal (India)[1].
* ~ French governmental listing of Danone (France) as a 'strategic industry' to pre-empt a potential takeover bid by PepsiCo (USA)[2].
* ~ Blocked takeover of Autostrade, an Italian toll-road operator by the Spanish company Abertis[3].
* ~ Proposed takeover of Endesa (Spain) by E.ON (Germany), and the counter-bid by Gas Natural (Spain)[4].
* ~ Proposed takeover of Suez (France) by Enel (Italy), and the counter-bid by Gaz de France (France)[5].
* ~ United States Congressional opposition to the takeover bid for Unocal (USA) by CNOOC (PR China), and the subsequent takeover by Chevron (USA)[6].
* ~ Political opposition in 2006 to sell port management businesses in six major U.S. seaports to a company DP World based in the United Arab Emirates
* ~ Case of new draft legislation at the beginning of 2007 restricting foreign companies' access to Russia's natural-resource wealth and select Russian industries
* ~ The New Zealand Government veto of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board's bid for a majority stake in Auckland Airport in 2008. [1]

The reason for a policy of economic protectionism in the cases above varied from bid to bid, In the case of Mittal's bid for Arcelor, the primary concerns involved job security for the Arcelor employees based in France and Luxembourg.

The cases of French Suez and Spanish Endesa involved the desire for respective European governments to create a 'national champion' capable of competing at both a European and global level.

Both the French and US government used national security as the reason for opposing takeovers of Danone, Unocal and the bid by DP World for 6 US ports.

It should be noted that in none of the examples given above was the original bid deemed to be against the interests of competition.

In many cases the shareholders supported the foreign bid. For instance in France after the bid for Suez by Enel was counteracted by the French public energy and gas company Gaz De France the shareholders of Suez complained and the unions of Gaz De France were in an uproar because of the privatization of their jobs.

Economic nationalism will deliver us from underdevelopment and poverty!:cheers:

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/4/4c/I,rape.jpg/451px-I,rape.jpg or dis :cheers:

Looks like an Egyptian god:lol:

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/524/8/mjstatue.0.0.0x0.409x307.jpeg

^^ or an Egyptian Mummy. (+R.I.P.+)




:horse:

^^^^:lol::lol:

@Askal82 - thats true for the majority of the filipinos. But I still believe we can still be better of what we are today.

^^^^ Sigh, we all wish it's that easy... It's hard to achieve that in the Philippines. I don't know if you guys are aware that even on the internet, there are many pinoy and actually pinays who chats to alot of westerners, guess what? They always ask for money, some of which in exchange of cybersex, their main reason was they are so poor and they are looking for someone who would take care of them.. (if they are so poor? How can they afford internet services and laptop computers?) Sad is, half of those who victimized the foreigns especially westerners, are SheMales... I am really saddenned with this one fact... it seems like when a filipino would make a headline in news, it's either they have a singing talent OR they were involved in a scheme to rip people off... Sad, very sad... considering that the Philippines isn't really that poor comparing to etiopia and such..

A Filipino mentality that I think everybody can relate with:

We have no culture of trust because honesty is a rare commodity. Like commodity, honesty have real economic value. It is where the credit system is based upon - contracts are honored, loans are made, laws are observed, relationships are established and etc. This mindset pervades personal and business. The constant violation of trust for personal gain undermines human and economic development and is one of the causes of graft and corruption.

Either you're the actor or the victim in the exploitation game where trust is non-existent. Kaya hirap umasenso ang Pinoy.

i guess that's why when there's a display of honesty by an employee especially a govt. employee it's a headliner since instead of it being the norm it's always just an exception. same with working public servants , a good public servant is so rare that when you see a Bayani, who in reality is just actually doing his job , you are awed.

^^^^ Sigh, we all wish it's that easy... It's hard to achieve that in the Philippines. I don't know if you guys are aware that even on the internet, there are many pinoy and actually pinays who chats to alot of westerners, guess what? They always ask for money, some of which in exchange of cybersex, their main reason was they are so poor and they are looking for someone who would take care of them.. (if they are so poor? How can they afford internet services and laptop computers?) Sad is, half of those who victimized the foreigns especially westerners, are SheMales... I am really saddenned with this one fact... it seems like when a filipino would make a headline in news, it's either they have a singing talent OR they were involved in a scheme to rip people off... Sad, very sad... considering that the Philippines isn't really that poor comparing to etiopia and such..

sorry to hear that, how did you find out she was a heshe?

this is BS. where are your evidence that islam spread throughout the country. maybe you should learn more about the excavations done at cebu's plaza independencia and boljoon, you can also check the artifacts from the other places in the country. check the museums, learn more about archeological finds of burial sites and you'll discover how hindu and animistic the people of luzon and the visayas and some parts of mindanao. go study some more, your knowledge seems to be limited to what you read from some books and then you made some assumptions.

"A similarly influential sultanate was established on the island of Mindanao about 50 years later, and Muslim influence rapidly ascended northward up the archipelago, reaching as far as the current capital of Manila on the island of Luzon. In fact, when the Spanish first arrived in the mid-1500s, they were dismayed to encounter such a strong Muslim presence; they had, after all, only recently expelled the Moors from Spain, after nearly 800 years of conflict. The Spanish nicknamed the Philippines' Muslim inhabitants the Moros, a corruption of the word Moors.

The Spanish quickly converted much of the Philippines to Christianity, using the sword quite liberally. But the colonialists had a difficult time extending both their rule and their religion to the country's south; the Moros fiercely resisted many Spanish attempts to establish dominance over Mindanao and Sulu. The Muslims, in turn, terrorized the Spanish by conducting frequent slave-taking raids on Luzon and in other Christianized parts of the Philippines."

http://www.slate.com/id/2112795/

I don't see what's so wrong with reading from books and articles ... That's where we should get our information. Get information from those who have gone on the archaeological excavations without having to do it ourselves ...

There are interesting sides to the story. However, I don't think I'm convinced that Islam only took a foothold in the south. That's where it was the strongest, and that's where it was rooted. Seeing how strong and adamant the Muslims were about spreading their culture and religion, nothing should've stopped them from going up North and spreading their culture religion and cohabitating with those in the North like they did before the Spanish arrived.

The below reading explains why I think it's hard to find some artifacts of what used to be here ... it makes me think of the phrase that goes along the lines of, "History is written by the victors." I'm Christian, so I'm not writing this on some biased non-Christian perspective. But the colonial era did bring a lot of interesting sentiment and actions from the Spanish. Most things that were "pagan" - and since the Eastern world was no way Christian at all and many many things were "pagan" to them - were erased or hidden.

"Hispanic Era

The arrival of the Spaniard made a little help, if at all, to the lives of the Indigenous Peoples. Since one of the main goals of the Spanish Empire was the promotion of Christianity, the missionaries not only suppressed the practice of indigenous cultures, they even actively tried to eradicate all traces of it. They even went to the extreme of burning all the anitos (idols).

Indigenous Peoples were even declared not only pagans but also savages. Their cultures were tagged as works of the devil and thereby abominable to the eyes of the Christian World."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Philippines


I don't think this attitude would've stopped the Spanish from putting a foot down on the extent of Islamic influence in the Philippines - especially after fighting it off themselves in their own country during the Reconquista. I believe there were a number of Muslim/Buddhist-Hindu/Shaman thalassocracies blossoming in Manila before the Spanish arrival.


Please, don't go attacking me over this saying I'm full of B.S. either. This is just a general summary from a lot of materials I've learned and read concerning Islam (and other cultures) in Pre-Hispanic Philippines.

Also you guys, Kiretoce made an interesting post here, I think you guys should read. It backs up what I said earlier about the Spanish destroying a lot of our old artifacts (that and a lot of them decayed easily on their own):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=626022&page=2

(History is written by the Victors)

The last post on this page is a cool read too:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=626022

:rofl:

sorry to hear that, how did you find out she was a heshe?

Complaints filed by the victims. Just like how internet schemers about "supposedly" some multimillion dollar internet dealings which was traced in Africa by CNN people who created a documentary about it in one of their episodes. This time it's about the Philippines. Everytime there is a news about the Philippines, it's either about calamities, some filipino students in the Philippines hacked something on the internet, political turmoil including coups or juntas, it's always about something negative. The only positive news you see in CNN anymore about the Philippines are something like youtubes posting about prison inmates dancing in group. The singing sensations are just about another more positive news you hear but it's more of from TV shows like Opra and Ellen Degeneres shows.

i guess that's why when there's a display of honesty by an employee especially a govt. employee it's a headliner since instead of it being the norm it's always just an exception. same with working public servants , a good public servant is so rare that when you see a Bayani, who in reality is just actually doing his job , you are awed.

On top of that it's very hard to set up businesses in the Philippines knowing that you have to deal with all the cheaters and piles of unnecessary b/s'es to prove good faith. You need lots of grease and political connection is a plus factor.

Kaya mabagal ang takbo ng ekonomiya dahil daming mga sigurista at mga mandadaya.

^^ Even SM and other large companies would have to go thru all of those "blessings" before they can set up their businesses in different areas and regions.
Nasa dugo na natin talaga yan at isang sakit ng Pilipino na walang kagalingan.
Dito, bibigyan ka pa ng "tax breaks" just to set up a legit business to improve their communities.

^^ the first philippine sultanate was founded in 1450 in sulu. the spaniards came in less than 50years later. and thus ending muslim ambition of controlling a bigger territory. there were only 3 muslim sultanates in mindanao and it occupies less than half of the island. the east of mindanao was occupied by lumads who fled from muslim persecutions. the lumads sacrifice wild boars to the ancestors by draining its blood. to the muslims pigs are unclean and thus haram. the subanons are also lumads whose ancestral domain is zamboanga, the tagbanwas are from north and central palawan.

and here so you would know history, the NCCA had already researched almost everything about our indigenous culture as well as the history of our lumads and muslim tribes.

http://www.ncca.gov.ph/about-culture-and-arts/articles-on-c-n-a/article.php?igm=4&i=232

excavations from plaza indepencia in cebu, as well as in boljoon, and local folklores and accounts had been showing us evidence that the war between the muslim sultanate in the south and those of the visayas had been going on even before the coming of the spaniards. that is in fact what some historians see as the reason why the visayans welcomed the spaniards to be their ally in fighting the moros that had been attacking their village and kidnapping their women and children. and historian accounts tell us that these visayans have tattoos which shows that they are non-muslims. their origin is believed to be borneo and in borneo even today we can see tribes whose people are tattooed and they are not muslims and their ways are the same as what historians had written about the visayan natives when the european first discovered our islands.

the spaniards called the muslims "moros" because they are themselves familiar with muslim who once ruled the south of spain. so why didnt they call the visayans and the lumads as moros? why only the muslims? answer: because they know the ways of the muslims. they are familiar with their religious practices. if they see anitos being worshipped, they'd know these are not muslims.

you dont just read people articles, you look at the evidence. you go to the museums and excavation sites. i went to boljoon and look at their relics and artifacts.

by the way, it says "Maguindanaon is the name of the family or dynasty which came to rule almost the whole island of Mindanao, particularly the former Cotabato."

it doesnt mean the whole mindanao was muslim because you must read the next sentence "It later refers to the Muslim people who live in the Pulangi valley which sprawls the Southwestern part of Mindanao. It is for this reason, the Maguindanaon are called people of the plain. They accepted Islam at the last quarter of 15th century. Total Islamization of the whole Pulangi area succeeded only with the arrival of Sharif Kabungsuan a prince from Johore who came to Mindanao after the fall of Malacca and nearby areas to Dutch colonialists in 1511."

the pre-islamic maguindanaon ruled a bigger territory than those of the muslim maguindanaon sultanate. it later disintegrated because some remained lumad while others chose to become muslim and abandon the ways (religion) of the ancestors (anitos).

ako... pinoy o mexicano? im the one in the left :naughty:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/medpaisa19/6212_115568440685_502485685_2867085.jpg

^^ It doesn't matter really because Filipinos comes in all shades like Mexicans. :lol: Btw, I had a Filipino classmate before who is more "whiter" than you! :D Your friend on the last picture looks like Jerome Sala. :)

http://i20.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/1c/4e/ef1d_1.JPG

http://www.koleksyon.com/images/showbiz/who/singing_champions/jerome_sala.jpg

:D

^^

But the article you provided also says:

The Sulu sultanate is multi-ethnic. At the height of its power in the early part of the 18th century, its territory encompassed the whole Zamboanga peninsula, Basilan, Sulu, Tawi-Tawi, Palawan and Sabah. On the same period, the sultanate began to intensify its foreign relations with neighboring Muslim principalities in Brunei, Makassar, Manila, Cebu (before Spanish era), Maguindanao, Buayan and Batavia including China.

The article also says this:

The first phase of this war began with the arrival of Legaspi who led the invasion of Muslim settlement in Manila under Rajah Sulayman in 1571.

That means there was a Muslim principality in Manila ...

Regardless of how long they were here, the Philippines was peppered with Islamic influence in various areas. And I think it did exist in Manila. In Manila we're not talking about the Sultanates, we're talking about the Rajahs. Even though you mentioned about the first sultanate in the Philippines which was in Sulu, Sultans weren't the only leaders of Muslim settlements. There were also Datus and Rajahs. The Manila settlement was under the control of a Rajah.

"Subsequent settlements by Arab missionaries from Malaysia and Indonesia helped established Islam in the Philippines and each settlements were governed by Datu, Rajah and Sultan."

Muslim influence rapidly ascended northward up the archipelago, reaching as far as the current capital of Manila on the island of Luzon. I already know about how the Spanish have encountered the Muslims in their own country - it was there for about 785 years. After kicking the Moors/Moros out of their own country, that's why they were dismayed to see such a strong Muslim influence when they got to the Philippines.

This article even says how Islam did reach Manila. I didn't say the WHOLE Philippines was Muslim. Sure, there were Buddhists, Hindus and lots of Animists. But that doesn't mean Islam didn't pepper many places all over the Philippines (mainly the South where it has such a strong foothold).

You have to take classes, read articles (like the one you provided), read primary documents, and read textbooks about history and excavation finds. Not everyone has time to go to every excavation site and museum to learn history and prove whatever point they have. It would take forever for us to acquire knowledge. That's why these findings are all conveniently written down. That's also why we trust what's written down by archaeologists in articles, documents and textbooks.

and who is dis??

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/customavatars/avatar106279_35.gif

i think i saw this pic somewhere very familiar :lol:

^^ didnt it say foreign relation. it doesnt mean the entire achipelago is islamic. and werent they called rajah or datu and not sultan? havent you even wondered why we have the sultanate of sulu and maguindanao but no sultanate of cebu?

the islamic community in maynilad was a result of the conquest of the sultanate of brunei in 1500.

in most if not all communities where islam becomes the norm, the tribal chiefs would adopt the title sultan. that is why we have sultanates in the states of malaysia. but why dont we have sultanates in panay, sultanates in bukidnon, sultanate in cebu, sultanate in samar? and why are the rulers called rajah. rajah is sanskit and hindu. hindu rulers are called rajah like the maharajahs of india.

http://www.elaput.org/portslam.htm

Napatunayan man ang pagsakop ng mga taga-Brunei sa Manila, napatunayan ding hindi nagtagal ang kanilang paghahari duon. Nuong 1570, pagkaraan lamang ng 50 taon, si Rajah Soliman at si Rajah Laja (ang tinawag na Rajah Matanda) ang dinatnan ng mga Espanyol na haghahari sa Manila. Ang mag-tio ay kapwa anak-anak (descendants) ni Dayang Kalangitan, ang babaing pinuno ng Bitukan Manok (lungsod ng Pasig ngayon) at asawa ni Gat Lontok, nuong bandang 1450. Na babae ang pinuno, at dayang at gat ang mga parangal, - lahat ay patunay na galing sila sa mga unang tao sa Sumatra, tinawag na mga Minang kabau, at lumikas sila sa Pilipinas halos 2,000 taon sa nakaraan - bago ginamit ang mga parangal na datu at rajah sa Sumatra. Lumikas din mula sa hilaga ng Sumatra, malapit sa kasalukuyang lungsod ng Acheh, ang mga taga-Pasai na nagtatag ng kanilang baranggay, tinatawag ngayong Pasay, malapit sa Manila.


rajah matanda was not muslim but his nephew rajah soliman could possibly be a muslim. they shared their rule probably because rajah matanda need him as a mediator for the small muslim community in his realm. Though manila was conquered at one time by the sultanate of brunei but the whole island of luzon didn't become islamized and even those conquerors sent to conquer manila were of different origin and some were thought to be hindu mercenaries. traces of the tattoo culture from the visayas to luzon is proof that islam was not able to penetrate these areas because islam prohibits tattooing the body.

read more articles and made more research. i'm already more than 30 years old and have been studying philippine history for more than 15years. i dont know how long had you been studying philippine history.

if you still insist that what you're saying is right. then go talk to an archeologist (archaeologue). he's here in this forum. you can read his post here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=906624&page=14

:D

Took my mom to the doctor today. A very Hispanic-looking nurse called out to my mom. As they were walking down the hall, my mom suddenly asked her if she was a Filipina. Immediately, I thought she would laugh, give my mom a funny look, and say no. Surprisingly, she said her grandfather was!!! She said he went to El Salvador to do his residency, met her grandmother, and they had a daughter. Ultimately, he returned to the Philippines. We now have a new friend in the doctor's office.
A few years ago, my mom underwent cataract surgery. One of the assistants in the office was a guy who looked 200% Mexican. However, when he gave us his card, the surname was 200% native Filipino. Huh??? We asked him about it and he said his dad was Filipino and his mom was Mexican.

:D

bueno, tito parece como filipino tambien, no? mas o menos?
Tito seems filipino too...
woCLGuK_K5A&feature=channel_page

bai Mercato, bisaya kang dako:D :lol:
(you're a bisdak)

just like me:D

^^ That's right... parehas tang bisaya. Og labaw pa nga parejas jud tang DAKO. :lol:
.
But if you're sayin we look exactly alike, hell no we don't. :D

It was fulgozo who stole my pic. The pics formerly here are of that branch of the family (& friends) with strong Hispanic blood and can speak the language. It wasn't OT... :) But there is also a branch of the family with strong Chinese heritage & can still speak Hokkien. We are somewhere in between, my jewish blood is way much higher than spanish but lower than chinese. But we are Christian, neither of the buddhist nor jewish faith.

^^ or an Egyptian Mummy. (+R.I.P.+)



:horse:

no isnt that paula abdul's bust?:lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^ that's me.. mercato on youtube. (ohoho, no you don't. I have very little spanish blood... just around 5%).

If you look closely, I am using the 2009 Singtel issued HTC Googlephone. Android operating platform, 3mpixel cam.

its also on my facebook with my real name on it. :lol:

??? lol no, not that i what i meant is some pic of some guy not u but is similar to you that i saw somewhere.

:)

filipinos lang ba ang nagpa-payong even when the sun's out?? ngayon ko lang medyo na realize na Westerners frown upon that practice hehehe...

:cheers:

^^ Because to the Westerners, umbrellas are only meant for use when it's raining outside. And no, it's not only Filipinos that uses the umbrella when the day is bright and sunny. Other Asian nations do to, add to that Africans and Latin Americans. The practice is prevalent mostly because they want some relief and shade from the oppressive heat when walking.

filipinos lang ba ang nagpa-payong even when the sun's out?? ngayon ko lang medyo na realize na Westerners frown upon that practice hehehe...

:cheers:

Subukan mong maglakad ng 15minutes under the searing heat rays of the sun at 50 degree celcius, feeling mo parang napiprito utak mo.

We had a british visitor once and it was her first time in the middle east. The hotel she's staying in is just a block away but a good 15-20minute walk to our office, so that's what she did and by the time she got to our office she was about to collapse and hoarsely asking for sugar and water. Surely taught her never to understimate the heat again.

The sun rays in the Philippines at mid noon is intense enough to burn your skin in 5 minutes. I think it has to do with the country located near the equator. I tried it before and it feels like you're neck is getting grilled, so its actually wise to bring umbrella that is completely opaque to protect yourself if you're planning to stay out all day.

Mexico City, Distrito Federal. Calle Londres. El Trompito. Kumbaga parang Malate ang dating. After eating Tacos al Pastor and Tacos Alambre, we went to that Starbucks behind El Trompito.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/CIMG3822.jpg :|

^^^^ I always feel that the heat here in the US is much more harsher than in the Philippines, I mean the direct sunlight. especially down in FL and up here in the midwest. In the Philippines, it's a bit sticky where as here in the US, it's more of muggy and humid. it feels like the sunray actually pierced down your skin for some reason.

@pi_malejanna, I usually notice the other asians like the chinese and Koreans holding an umbrella while walking under the sun.

http://www.altnation.com/forums/attachments/junk-talk/73307d1229385672-40-year-old-emo-40yoemo.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

Sa tutoo lang, nakalimutan kong pangalan ng famous landmark na ‘to sa San Francisco

That's the Palace of Fine Arts, built for the 1915 Panama-Pacific Exposition and reminiscent of Roman and Greek architecture.

Thanks, mod! :)
That's the Palace of Fine Arts, built for the 1915 Panama-Pacific Exposition and reminiscent of Roman and Greek architecture. Sorry mod, a retard here wants to play rough... :ohno: can't risk friends and family coz of the maleducados y mamarachos now, can we? They only agreed to be posted without the trolls :D

Bueno vamos a ver, algunos dijeron que tienen características físicas de México, pero lo que me parece que es un cadáver de Egipto. Me pueden enviar su foto fea, al lado de los especimenes. Luego veo a los grupos con el orgullo moreno en la red, pero no veo a nadie hablar una palabra d castellano, ni una sola palabra, a pesar de sus pretensiones/ su afirmacion. esto incluye el sr. mamarracho. Que porquería! El Orgullo para qué? Para la raza? o para la cultura y el idioma? Qué es más importante? No los aguanto las racistas de mierd@ ese de los cojones. Todo lo que veo es golpear. Todo lo que hacen es bash otras razas porque son analfabetos, que es cierto que estan jodidos y chingadas… Guacala!

Did someone mention Egyptian god? :lol:
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/01-13-2008-Berlin_Nefertiti_01.jpg

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/MV5BMTY1NzQwNzY5M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTY.jpg

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/tutankhamun.jpg

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/HCAV63T1TCA1VLO2FCAE4IYD3CAPELK9NCA.jpg

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/1_461.jpg

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/allythealien300by300.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

^^ Because to the Westerners, umbrellas are only meant for use when it's raining outside. And no, it's not only Filipinos that uses the umbrella when the day is bright and sunny. Other Asian nations do to, add to that Africans and Latin Americans. The practice is prevalent mostly because they want some relief and shade from the oppressive heat when walking.

The sun rays in the Philippines at mid noon is intense enough to burn your skin in 5 minutes. I think it has to do with the country located near the equator. I tried it before and it feels like you're neck is getting grilled, so its actually wise to bring umbrella that is completely opaque to protect yourself if you're planning to stay out all day.

^^^^ I always feel that the heat here in the US is much more harsher than in the Philippines, I mean the direct sunlight. especially down in FL and up here in the midwest. In the Philippines, it's a bit sticky where as here in the US, it's more of muggy and humid. it feels like the sunray actually pierced down your skin for some reason.

@pi_malejanna, I usually notice the other asians like the chinese and Koreans holding an umbrella while walking under the sun.

so is it more of a geographical and cultural differences??
kahit ako naman nuong andun pa todo payong ako, especially sa tanghali when i walk from the school to my house...
pero dito, never talaga akong nakakita ng nagpapayong tuwing may araw...

siguro kasi almost every american has car kaya di sila sanay magpayong sa araw...:D

:cheers:

siguro kasi almost every american has car kaya di sila sanay magpayong sa araw...:D

:cheers:

Or, in the case of NYC (where you're from), people spend a chunk of their commutes underground, in the subway system. :colgate:

:tongue2:

And that most americans particularly caucasians would rather let the sun shine on them to get more tan.

I never remember myself holding an umbrella when I was in the Philippines even on rainy days. I do try to avoid being under the sun that long if i can but if I am walking down on the street, I never bother to hide from the sun. I just get conscious sometimes as it's really a big deal for alot of pinoys if one has darker skin, otherwise, i could careless if I get darker because of too much sun.

Wala lang....

This was in a Jacksonville (FL) online newspaper today. The explanations are pretty funny. :lol:

=================================================================

QUESTION

Why does Filipino start with an "F," and Philippines with a "Ph?"


REPLIES

"Philippines" is anglicized, while "Filipino" is probably in Spanish (Spain colonized the Philippines).

-- Sadh, 15, Dublin, Ireland

Because that's the proper spelling in the country's language. Philippines is an Americanized spelling.

-- Chibi, 28, Houston TX

Ebonics for the lazy learner.

-- Thelma, 58, Horse Shoe NC

The language spoken in the Philippines is Pilipino (note the absence of the H). The people are Filipinos (men) and Filipinas, also without the H.

-- Mary, 42, Atlanta GA

Because it's a Spanish word. I don't think there are any Ph combinations in the Spanish language.

-- Ron, 38, Stockton CA

Because the country is officially Filipinas, after the Spanish, who "discovered" it in 1521.

-- Urbano, 56, Grosse Pointe Park, MI

The Philippines (after King Philip) was under the control of Spain for more than 400 years. That explains the extensive Spanish influence on the country by way of customs, clothing, language, spelling, words and even names of the natives. Philippines is the English word for Filipinas (Spanish then, now changed to Pilipinas). This applies also to the word "Filipino."

-- Wally, 38, Toronto, Canada


WHAT THE EXPERT SAYS

If we're talking English, then yes, it's the Philippines. But it's also been called, among other things, Tawalisi, Las islas de San Lazaro, Las islas de Poniente, Las islas Felipenas and Las islas Filipinas.

It all depends on who was running things at the time, and where they were from. Explorer Ferdinand Magellan did claim the islands for Spain in 1521, giving it the name "Filipinas" (Spanish for Philippines), deriving it from King Philip II of Spain.

But, according to M. Paul Lewis, editor of "Ethnologue," a reference volume that catalogs all known living languages, the country is called "Pilipinas" in Tagalog, a language spoken by a big chunk of people there that doesn't distinguish between the "f" and "p" sounds.

"Filipino," which is Spanish, refers to the island's inhabitants. But wait, it also refers to the country's official national language (the Philippines gained independence from the U.S. in 1946), which is based on Tagalog and some of the island's other 170 or so languages.

To make matters a bit more confusing, the official language was once called Pilipino, but in the 1970s it was changed to Filipino to recognize the "f" sound.

People who speak English couldn't come up with anything different that they wanted to call Filipinos (like "Philippine," for example) so they also latched on to "Filipino" - even though they still use the English "Philippines" to refer to the country itself.

^^
English: Philippines
Spanish: Filipinas
Filipino: Pilipins :lol:

^^
English: Philippines
Spanish: Filipinas
Filipino: Pilipins :lol:

Bahasa Malayo/Indonesia :
Country - Bangsa Pilipina
People - Orang Pilipin

orang utan:D kapamilya pala ng mga pilipin

orang utan:D kapamilya pala ng mga pilipin

In Bahasa Indonesia/Malayu :

Orang means people, man, person

So in Indonesia : Malay is Orang Melayu, Chinese is Orang Tsina, Dutch is Orang Belanda, etc.

Orang asli means aborigines

Orang hutan means jungle people

Orangutan means a kind of Monkey found in Borneo.

Orang kaya means rich people

lolol

Fil-Am writes play about beauty pageants (http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/entertainment/entertainment/view/20090904-223574/Fil-Am-writes-play-about-beauty-pageants)

Just in time, in the aftermath of the recent Miss Universe pageant, where many Filipinos felt that Miss Philippines Bianca Manalo should have fared better, a play about our obsession with beauty contests opens in LA on September 11.

“Ruby, Tragically Rotund” was written by Boni B. Alvarez, a US-born actor-playwright whose parents hail from Antique. Boni holds a BA from Sarah Lawrence College, an MFA in acting from The ART/MXAT Institute for Advanced Theatre Training at Harvard University and an MFA in dramatic writing from the University of Southern California (USC). He teaches at USC and LA Trade Tech College.

The dramedy tells the story of Ruby Salazar, a full-figured Filipina who is one semester away from a college degree when her mother, Edwina, a beauty queen wannabe in her youth, decides to use Ruby’s tuition money for another daughter’s expenses as a beauty pageant contestant. Ruby decides to enter the pageant herself to win the money back, no matter the price.

In the cast are Ellen D. Williams, Marc Pelina, Fran de Leon, Kennedy Kabasares, Alison dela Cruz, Robert Almodovar, Mandela Bellamy, Regan Carrington, Kacy-Earl David, Mark Doerr, Katherine Lee and Angel Star Felix. Directed by Fil-Am Jon Lawrence Rivera, “Ruby” runs until Oct. 11 at the Los Angeles Theater Center in downtown LA. (More information is available at www.thelatc.org.)

Below are excerpts of our interview with Boni, whose play, “Dallas Non-Stop,” was awarded an honorable mention by the USC School of Theatre:

How did the idea for this play come about?

“Ruby, Tragically Rotund” was my final project at USC. I was inspired by a Maria Irene Fornes play that my class was studying. I wanted to write about a fat girl trapped in a pigpen. I pictured that this pigpen was inside a house, not outdoors. I always wanted to write a “fat” play—one that deals with size and the feelings that are lodged in a big shell—then, Ruby emerged.

Share your thoughts and experiences dealing with these Pinoy obsessions: beauty pageants, getting a college degree, family relations and public image?

In typical Filipino fashion, I love beauty pageants. As a kid, I absolutely loved the Miss Universe pageants. I secretly wished that I could compete. There are standards of beauty within the Pinoy culture that continue to hold true. Being taller, lighter in skin tone, having a narrower nose and being slender are all perceived to be better—but the only thing I am is “tall for a Filipino,” so I would turn my attention toward school.

Were you actively involved in the auditions, especially in casting Ruby Salazar?

Yes, Jon was generous in letting me be a part of the casting process. Ellen Williams plays Ruby, and she’s amazing. She totally gets Ruby and her world. She’s got a wonderful attack on the character. Ellen is bold, fierce and unapologetic, but she’s also sweet, so the audience will completely empathize with her.

If a Greek chorus were composed of Filipinos, what would they comment on? What would that chorus be like?

The chorus in “Ruby” is comprised of her friends—her homegirls. This chorus serves as an emotional support to Ruby. They celebrate their bigness and acknowledge one another’s fears when dealing with the “nonbig” outside world. I don’t know what a Filipino chorus would sound like or how they would function in this play. They’d probably have the same comments and observations as Edwina, the mother.

Can you tell us about your Filipino background?

I was born at the Stanford University Hospital and grew up in East Palo Alto in the San Francisco Bay area. My mom moved to the States in the ’60s and lived in Stockton, California. My mom and dad were pen pals. Then my father moved here in the ’70s. They’re Visayan from Antique.

I have flashback scenes in “Ruby” which are written in Kinaray-a, a Visayan dialect. It’s my parents’ language. I feel that, compared to Tagalog, Kinaray-a is a more musical language. In these flashbacks, I wanted a very hopeful and romantic mood, so I decided to write them in Kinaray-a.

“Ruby” is a very Filipino play because it is infused with Pinoy culture—my experience of it, specifically. Ruby has a Filipino family, but she also has a blossoming relationship with her African-American boyfriend that could lead to a family of her own. At the same time, she has a very diverse group of friends whom she also considers family.

While “Ruby” is very Filipino, it’s also very American—not just Filipino-American, but how we fit into the entire American landscape, not only as an individual group, but also in how we live with other groups.

^^^^ I always feel that the heat here in the US is much more harsher than in the Philippines, I mean the direct sunlight. especially down in FL and up here in the midwest. In the Philippines, it's a bit sticky where as here in the US, it's more of muggy and humid. it feels like the sunray actually pierced down your skin for some reason.

@pi_malejanna, I usually notice the other asians like the chinese and Koreans holding an umbrella while walking under the sun.

In US, since it lies along the temperate zone, the agony of the searing heat lasts a quarter of a year. Yet in Philippines, a tropical country, shines all year round, thus the usual habit of Filipinos bringing umbrellas during sunny days.

^^^^ I wouldnt consider being in the tropics the only reason for the umbrella usage, I think is more cultural than geographical. For example Colombia like other latin american countries are also tropical and i never see people walking around in a sunny day with an umbrella, but whenever we see Asian tourist holding umbrellas in sunny days we are like wtf?.

^^ I dunno, but I can't stand 5 minutes under the sun in the Philippines while your neck is getting grilled hard by the UV rays especially at mid noon. I can go without umbrella here in New York at noon time, but never in Manila. :lol:

^^^^ I wouldnt consider being in the tropics the only reason for the umbrella usage, I think is more cultural than geographical. For example Colombia like other latin american countries are also tropical and i never see people walking around in a sunny day with an umbrella, but whenever we see Asian tourist holding umbrellas in sunny days we are like wtf?.

Very true, Japan and Korea, even China has winter weather yet during summer time, they tend to use umbrellas while under the sun.

^^ I dunno, but I can't stand 5 minutes under the sun in the Philippines while your neck is getting grilled hard by the UV rays especially at mid noon. I can go without umbrella here in New York at noon time, but never in Manila. :lol:

Really? Might be due to highrise buildings and abundant trees around NY especially in the city that is keeping most of the NYers off direct sunlight because around midwest and the southern states, you'd definitely feel like a stake being grilled on a direct heat the way the sun rays touches your skin. You can even fry an egg on the concrete pavement during summer time here.

I can't stand the heat in Manila not because of the sunlight but it's more of the humid and sticky weather temperature, then the smogs coming from the most public transport like buses and jeepneys gets you more aggravated. I still never hid from the sun anywhere, not in Manila, never in the US either.

What about this girl, the one holding the glass of wine? Where do you think she's from?


http://picasaweb.google.com/biginjapanagain/Misc#

Down here in the southeast US, the sun isn't really the factor why people aren't outside during the height of the summer season, it's because of the oppressive heat and humidity. People usually love to get a healthy tan and will try to get one no matter what, it's better looking than to be sickly pale all year long.

pinay or other Asian.

Very true, Japan and Korea, even China has winter weather yet during summer time, they tend to use umbrellas while under the sun.



Really? Might be due to highrise buildings and abundant trees around NY especially in the city that is keeping most of the NYers off direct sunlight because around midwest and the southern states, you'd definitely feel like a stake being grilled on a direct heat the way the sun rays touches your skin. You can even fry an egg on the concrete pavement during summer time here.

I can't stand the heat in Manila not because of the sunlight but it's more of the humid and sticky weather temperature, then the smogs coming from the most public transport like buses and jeepneys gets you more aggravated. I still never hid from the sun anywhere, not in Manila, never in the US either.

Hahahaha, that one too.

Actually, there are plenty of trees in our place in Manila as well, its just that you're getting grilled during noontime if you're exposed under the sun without the umbrella. Hindi biro pero, masakit talaga sa balat ang sinag ng araw sa Pilipinas lalo na kung tanghaling tapat. Siguro hindi lang ako nasanay. :lol:

ows, kunyari ka pa lagi ka namn binibilad ni titser noong late ka palagi sa plag seremoni:D hindi daw sanay:D

The heat and humidity in the country is OK, I just hope that they plant more trees in sidewalks and the like, they cool the place and provide the ever-needed shade.

I wish that they plant LOTS of trees along Ayala Avenue, walking to the office makes you sweat so much in the morning!

ows, kunyari ka pa lagi ka namn binibilad ni titser noong late ka palagi sa plag seremoni:D hindi daw sanay:D


Hindi ako nalalate. 30 minutes early pa nga ako sa school dati.

:lol: :lol:

ako din... lol!!:lol:

http://i26.tinypic.com/2qcjp0k.jpg
boxing is what mexicans love and also filipinos... i love it :)

btw... mi tienen la sangre mexicano en mi, pienso alguien es extremo danio.... nvm.. ahahah :D :cheers:

What about this girl, the one holding the glass of wine? Where do you think she's from?


http://picasaweb.google.com/biginjapanagain/Misc#

hard to classify do u have a better pic than that?