Let's compare Vietnam and the world by 2010, since 2010 isn't that far away into the future, so it won't be that hard to predict. Let's compare about economic, GDP, military strength, tourism, in frastructure, FDI, industries, etc. But remember not to use crap words ok guys, although we live in a democracy nation and not that favor to communism, yet we need to use facts to convince others to join our side, not by saying shit.

A 2010 prediction? Why don't just compare now.

Imo, education is the most important thing the govt' should invest into. Good education.

Bad education:

http://www.rumble.net/travel/photos/vietnam/saigon/saigonpropaganda1.jpg

Good education teaches student to think creatively, independently and re-thinking (phan? bie^n).

Also teaches:
How to accept and promote cultural diversities.
How to manage their own finance.
How to tackle life's problems with a methodology.
Basic principles of competition.
How to deal with ppl and how to please the public.

I think that's enough, maths and history can be learned later.

Thanks for ur reply, but education is harder to compare and analyze than other stuffs. The reason for the 2010 prediction is that I bet if the current rate of infrastuture development, economic, FDI, ect. Vietnam will join the 50 wealthiest nations on Earth.

Let see, what's the 50th country now and do compare it with Vietnam in all perspectives.

sometimes I wonder about you saigon_monsooner ....If you hadn´t mentioned it that u come from vietnam...I would guess that you were educated in europe...´:-)

Vietnam's rampant corruption doesn't leave alot to desire about.

sometimes I wonder about you saigon_monsooner ....If you hadn´t mentioned it that u come from vietnam...I would guess that you were educated in europe...´:-)


dont we need more people like this then in vietnam...that would be so good...for apparently teh education system is in such a bad state... vietnam would be so much different...

personally I think VN needs more laughters and who delivered it better than two of mah best friends prox and baria.

the kid said he's from america....
sorry, kids grow up with american TV don't say "duyen dang VN" is a good show
I joinned this page in april 2005, and we got the vn forum a month later.
the kid said he's 15 in hcmc in early 2005, and by the end of 2005 he said he's 18

hahaha
I find it cute though :) smile, and smile and smile hehe

^^ and you've been getting annoying lately too.

personally I think VN needs more laughters and who delivered it better than two of mah best friends prox and baria.

Vietnam do have more laughter without the negative people like you, Bang. You just fire another cheap potshot at the others who don't agree with you. You do have the Bolsa mentality: "You do have free speech, as long as it is in line with what I think". If that is the freedoom you think you are advocating for Vietnam, please stay away from my country.

You are very good of creating or inciting conflicts on this forum. And best of all, you think you are the only one who knows everythings, the rest of us are just wimps. Unfortunately (fortunately for VN) you are just a cheap talker, not a doer.

I hope you'll find something better to do, at least for yourself or your family, instead of taking potshot at the others to stir things up, or spending time finding something bad to say about VN, or making things up or dreaming things up, like S. VN was a rich country.

And I do hope someday you will come back to your senses and think normally like others.

Peace out! :)


@tq: if u mean european education is better, then thanks! i have good parents :)

@saigon_monsooner: yeah...this is what I meant...:-)...they should make in school lessons more creatively stuff and group-works...find a new way of learning...

...I hope in the near future vn kids will join to more activities and become more indepedent from their parents...thats mean that they should have just also the world-children-rights...

vn is still a poor country that's why we need laughter to ease the pain.......

and baria don't put words in my mouth because whatever I swallow one end I will blow the other END
so apply all those things you said to yourself and use it

VN the country is never bad in my mind........it's the government, the corruption that I'm still talking from time to time.....and VN was a rich country crap....friend you're still looking for micheal jackson

I do plenty of things , that's why I know for sure how many educated people browse through here read your comments and chose to ignore it.

There's a girl working in the hospital that I have to pick up everyday, you woudn't believe the things she said about what the government did to her family ...and all happened after the year 2000.....
I'd never seen an angier girl in my life. ...........and you sitting here talking how you fled VN to america was a wrong choice and now you come back to mend the wrong things you've done.

you know why I have no respect for you?
it's not the many things you said, but 1 thing in particular:
the VN employees they got beat up and harrassed by all the foreign employers, the Korean, taiwanese etc right on VN soil.....because they obviously did something .......and they can quit their jobs if they wanted but didn't......and those korean and taiwanese didn't get way with it......

sorry friend.......you know how hard it is for many poor uneducated people in the country side to find jobs? and from what I know just for the past month 40.000 workers went on strike again....because aside from the low minimum wages of 500.000 to 600.000 dong/1 mth......that's like $50 canadian .........they also been treated like crap by the employers...they eat 2000dong a meal ........they're not lucky like you to padlle their boat to america when VN was strugling ......and now VN could breathe a little you bring your american dollars to come back insearch for a premature retirement.

i don't know if i'm a talker or a doer....but 1 thing I don't do......that is "don gio tro co"

and the world is very big.......there's another world out there outside of bolsa....and that world is very scary......you know what it calls? TORONTO ...hehe.....yep......it's a very nasty world that has no time for another Tran Van Truong

tq you live in germany .....have you heard about the VN youth group?

they tried to look for VN kids ages of 14-15 in 1997-98 to send to the world children's conference ....unfortunately that's a hard thing to do because they said when it comes to politics VN children don't have much interest and are very "ngay tho" when it comes to the issue....not only children in VN but Vnmese children in Germany....

to me that's not a sad thing....sad thing is not even when grown ups not only don't care about politics, but those who knows nothing about politics choose to trash it......then they sit and wondered.....why VN is so poor compare to other countries ?...i mean SOUTH EAST ASIAN countries.

Who is this Tran Van Truong guy? And how he is relevant?

I do plenty of things , that's why I know for sure how many educated people browse through here read your comments and chose to ignore it.

So why is this highest educated people surely chose not to ignore it? Does that makes "a few" people replied to my comments "uneducated"? I don't know how much of it you have in order to call others uneducated. Just like I remember the day you questioned Prox's parents the way they brought him up, just for not agreeing with you. Sad!!!

Bring your anger to VN next time you are there and deliver it! Not just cheap talk. Be man enough to say what you feel anywhere. If you act different than the way you feel, won't that make you feel uncomfortable? Be a tiger anywhere, not only a certain places. Don't be a flip-flop!

It's almost new year already. Chill out and enjoy Tet.

It's almost new year already. Chill out and enjoy Tet.

I agree. It is not fair for other members to see our personal differences. I will not response to any inferior comments from now on. Sorry to all for taking up the space intended for better things. :)

@bang: I haven´t heard about it. But surely such kids are "ngay to" in vn politic because they grewp up in a democratic country and vn kids from vn don´t have such a world-thinking-mind.

baria lova talking to me don't ya? fun huh? :)
anyhow......happy new year to you .....any everyone else!!!


ps. if ya must know, the first time I came back to VN, the commie custom gave me crap and made me rewrite a bunch of thing in the commie form, then they took my belonging......I got so mad I pretended I didn't know VIetnamese....and I screamed my lungs of in English for every local and foreign to hear.......they were so freaked out, 2 of them escorted me to a personal room and kept saying "we sorry ...sorry, it's just an airport procedure"

then when I got to the police to declare my "home comming" they asked me for bribe...I again wanted to scream...but I didn't ..........because I know for sure they can't do nothing to me.....I have the whole country of Canada to back me out......what I'm afraid of is they can't take it out on me they probably take it out on my family in VN......therefore that was the only time I shut up infront of the commie....

great story for the new year huh?

moonsoon
tran van truong is this middle age dude who owned a video store, and came back to VN and saw few changes in the country....he then back to america and hung Ho chi minh picture and red commie flag in his store (in Bolsa the largest concentration of VNmese oversea......very smart)
as a result stirred up the largest protest in the region for weeks, and got wide media coverage from Vnmese to American......they estimated that there were around 30.000 protesters came..

-he used washington as a family name for his 2 children instead of his "tran" last name.
-his familiy and relatives got so embarrassed they declared infront of the vnmese community that they disowned him.
-police also discovered he had hundreds of illigal video tapes in his stores

I have the video tape of this event

-he used washington as a family name for his 2 children instead of his "tran" last name.





I remembered this event...massive protests....what an idiot..
anyway i didnt know this fact...changed the last name to Washington? wow...what a disgrace...

Cái vụ Trần Trường chỉ chứng minh cho thế giới rằng người Việt rất coi nặng chánh kiến, nếu ai không cùng chính kiến với mình là sẽ tìm cách triệt hạ lẫn nhau. Còn người Tàu thì sao, họ tuy không cùng chính kiến nhưng họ vẫn tôn trọng và sống rất hòa thuận với nhau. Ở mấy phố Tàu bên Mỹ có tiệm thì cắm cờ Trung Quốc và bán các hình ảnh về Mao trạch đông có tiệm thì cắm cờ đài Loan và bán các hình ảnh về Tưởng giới thạch nhưng họ đâu có cái kiểu biểu tình hàng lọat để triệt hạ đối phương không cùng chính kiến như người Việt mình đâu.

Cũng chỉ vì người Việt quá coi nặng chính kiến cho nên đến ngày hôm nay dân tộc vẫn chỉ như một đống các rời

that guy has the freedom of speech ... 2nd AMENDMENT?!?!?!?!?! that guy;s rights r stated in the bill of rights! i feel bad for him... his family should be ashamed,ASHAMED! Everyone who was there ruining his life and protesting should be ashamed, too! There r people who worship satan no one says anything, they juss shun them.

U guys hav to admit, this is the truth.... (hehe even though putting a portrait of ho chi minh is stupid)

man that guy is mental change ur last name that is so digrace for ur family and put the communist flag sign wow owow wowow in vietnam some people still struggle to live under those fock communist they take so many money from the people

ok that guy got hard balls, i'm wondering if when some gung-ho guy shows his yellow flag in the middle of Saigon, do you think anyone would protest? (before he get busted)

it might be more progressive

Cái vụ Trần Trường chỉ chứng minh cho thế giới rằng người Việt rất coi nặng chánh kiến, nếu ai không cùng chính kiến với mình là sẽ tìm cách triệt hạ lẫn nhau. Còn người Tàu thì sao, họ tuy không cùng chính kiến nhưng họ vẫn tôn trọng và sống rất hòa thuận với nhau. Ở mấy phố Tàu bên Mỹ có tiệm thì cắm cờ Trung Quốc và bán các hình ảnh về Mao trạch đông có tiệm thì cắm cờ đài Loan và bán các hình ảnh về Tưởng giới thạch nhưng họ đâu có cái kiểu biểu tình hàng lọat để triệt hạ đối phương không cùng chính kiến như người Việt mình đâu.

Cũng chỉ vì người Việt quá coi nặng chính kiến cho nên đến ngày hôm nay dân tộc vẫn chỉ như một đống các rời

That guy had the right to show up his preference in virtue of the 2nd emendment. People in Little Saigon had the right to demonstrate for the same reason. It is a disgrace that this brainwashed guy changed his Họ to Washington (just like former slaves) but I disapprove of neighbouring Vietnameses people attacking his shop.

Besides, I hope that in the future, our friend Saigon moonsooner will be back to Vietnam, along with young people with the same openminded spirit.

Saigon_Moonsooner, do you plan to undertake a doctoral studies in Political nd Economic Science at the London school of Economics and Political Sciences.

^I totally agrees. The Vietnamese community had every right to stage their protests and show their disapproval as long as it was within the legal and moral frameworks.

Hanging HCM's picture in Little Saigon made a mockery of ours, our parents and relatives' suffering and the reason why we're a diaspora community in the first place.

what are people talking about?
Freedom of speech and expression meant you have the right to say and do what you please as long as it's not interfered others
freedom in america doesn't allowed racial comments, hatred or religious prejudice
when freedom of speech hurting the majority, then you have a problem, not the majority.
you don't go to a jewish community and say Hitler was a powerful man.

and you can't compare VN to chinese community.......chinese comunity or Chinatowns in america and the world are very complex and mutifacet.
there are chinese in mainland, HongKong, Taiwan, Macao, Chinese Muslim in the western border.....they don't think the same trust me
then there are Chinese, Viet, Indonesian, Malaysian, Lao, Cambodia, Philipine, singapore.
Infact in Toronto alone there are many CHinatowns......the one that most tourists and visitors came to see comprises of about 50% Chinese Vietnamese......and there are other Chinatowns sprung up when rich Chinese from Hong Kong brought their way into the country to escape the 1997 china handover....
and I can say this......if you are chinese Vietnamese or CHinese anything even chinese from mainland china come to these particular chinatown.....they wouldn't even other look at you......that oughta show ya the chinese community
and there are many layers of chinese migrants and immigrants and refugees in chinatown....there are even Chinese who have been in North america continent for over 100yrs.

VN community around the world however majority escaped after 1975 so doesn't matter where in the world our hearts beat the same beat, we shared the same tragic lost story.

ps. moonsoon is that a curious or a reverse question? because over 60% of young People in VN now born after the war so I don't know if they recognize the flag or they think it's some kind of Hue festival flag. why don't ya try to wave it next time you're back. then you will be my hero.....forget HCM forget hai ba trung....moonsoon is the new deal

tran
many people came and told him to take those things off......the kid said "No" and continue to hang and display the ornaments

so the attack came long after
after he refused
after he being stupid
and after he said crap to the people and provoked them

I would wave the 3 stripe flag in Vietnam on the condition that they'll let me visit Vietnam again next time. LOL

Bang, it was just a curious question :)

they are still 80 millions of Vietnamese in Vietnam and I presume that 99% wouldn't even care about politics (apart from their offices' micropolitics) however, they do not want their and their families' lives to be affected by any political ....happenings.So I wonder how they will react with such demonstrations.
Saigon_Moonsooner, do you plan to undertake a doctoral studies in Political nd Economic Science at the London school of Economics and Political Sciences.
I think my application there just have been rejected as well as my friends'.... :? a bit dissappointing coz' mine was tutored by a guy from Bien Hoa, himself is studying in LSE, never mind....


Btw, i'm gonna study Banking and Finance.

as Finance is very important matter ;)

hi all
just asking is vietnam democracy or still communist

we've got socialist (communist) government.

and you can't compare VN to chinese community.......chinese comunity or Chinatowns in america and the world are very complex and mutifacet.
there are chinese in mainland, HongKong, Taiwan, Macao, Chinese Muslim in the western border.....they don't think the same trust me
then there are Chinese, Viet, Indonesian, Malaysian, Lao, Cambodia, Philipine, singapore.
Infact in Toronto alone there are many CHinatowns......the one that most tourists and visitors came to see comprises of about 50% Chinese Vietnamese......and there are other Chinatowns sprung up when rich Chinese from Hong Kong brought their way into the country to escape the 1997 china handover....
and I can say this......if you are chinese Vietnamese or CHinese anything even chinese from mainland china come to these particular chinatown.....they wouldn't even other look at you......that oughta show ya the chinese community
and there are many layers of chinese migrants and immigrants and refugees in chinatown....there are even Chinese who have been in North america continent for over 100yrs.
There are some truth in that but your observations are highly exaggerated.

Most oversea Chinese are actually a tad more united because we all live in a "foreign" land and when we compare ourselves to others, the differences between say a Chinese from Taiwan and one from mainland China, becomes quite insignificant. Of course, every once in a while you'll met an oversea Chinese who are a little prejudice, but then again people like that exist in every community.

VN community around the world however majority escaped after 1975 so doesn't matter where in the world our hearts beat the same beat, we shared the same tragic lost story.
Perhaps.

But I've heard my Vietnamese friends state that there is still separation among the oversea Vietnamese community, namely between those from northern Vietnam, southern Vietnam and the Hue region. I don't know how deep this separation and rivalry is as I don't think I can ever truly experience it without being a Vietnamese nor do I wish to spectulate.

In London, we got Vietnameses from evrywhere:

My student friends are from Hanoi, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, Haiphong, Long Xuyen.

We came visit another friend, who's Viet-kieu from Bulgaria

We came to a Viet-kieu supermarket in East London, saw ppl from Hanoiand students from Saigon work there.

Anyway, Hackney is like what I've been told about it :)

in the us, the viet community is not really a community. there r maybe 5 big viet "communities" in the us. they say they represent the viet people here, but they really dont. there arent really elections, its juss old viet vets who want power.. at least thats wut i see here in the washington metro area

hi all
just asking is vietnam democracy or still communist


oh about this.. vietnam is making a quick transition to a market economy. vietnam is depending more and more on the free world for tourism and a place to export its stuff.

this is why i think i wont be long until the commie govt will collaspe, hopefully it will be a peacefull revolution.

did u guys noe the new generations of commies r being educated in the us and europe. maybe theyll get some common sense.

Well let's hope so. If history is anything to go by, the Vietnamese authoritarian/dictatorial regime will collapse under the weight of increasing economic wealth and social openness.

in the us, the viet community is not really a community. there r maybe 5 big viet "communities" in the us. they say they represent the viet people here, but they really dont. there arent really elections, its juss old viet vets who want power.. at least thats wut i see here in the washington metro area

Same goes for Southern California. except that I don't know how many "communities" are there. All they want, been long thirsty for, is the big titles like "chủ tịch cộng đồng" or "chủ tịch ủy ban" without any real power. They spent time to fight or "chụp mũ" each other. One thing I know for sure is that they don't represent me. They disgrace us Vietnamese, instead!

did u guys noe the new generations of commies r being educated in the us and europe. maybe theyll get some common sense.

I think this is the only way VN will change. Let's help to make it happens.

Vietnamese people tend to be divided because of our long history of division: lord Trịnh and Nguyễn, the French divided Vn into 3 kỳ . And lately, North VN and south VN...the Vietnamese are immature,

still caught up in this topic huh?

moonsoon
given the chance Vietnamese will care and participate in politics ...haven't you lived in VN? they talk about politics everywhere , everyday from coffee shop to restaurants, markets.....but only politics of other countries mainly the US. anything but VN politics, but if they do talked about it.....it's mainly beating around the bush like ...this man this, that man that.....never and I mean never they hit in the crotch
about that 99% of Vietnamese don't like politics you are dead wrong

Pangu
Chinese are very united indeed!......I know several incidents in the work places where you fired 1 chinese, a bunch of chinese quit the job....(never witness Vietnamese do this)...and if you hurt a chinese on the street, other will jump in and beat the crap out of you......but only when chinese are dealing with other cultures......among themselves however there are respects but also class of differences. I'm talking about a bigger picture, hope ya can imagine it....and put your self in a chinese shoes whose not from Hong kong and come to a "hong kong chinatown" in toronto and you'll see

likewise for Vietnamese community......now I'm surprised now people brought in those shitty leaders in Bolsa and saying there are 5, 6 something groups
in reality, any reality.......there are always 3 groups: yes, no and the undecided (or don't care) same goes for politics

Vietnamese people needs to be more united, whether in business or as a community. I see so many Vietnamese going into the nail salon business competing against one another only to hurt themselves in the end. That's very sad.

Pangu
Chinese are very united indeed!......I know several incidents in the work places where you fired 1 chinese, a bunch of chinese quit the job....(never witness Vietnamese do this)...and if you hurt a chinese on the street, other will jump in and beat the crap out of you......but only when chinese are dealing with other cultures......among themselves however there are respects but also class of differences. I'm talking about a bigger picture, hope ya can imagine it....and put your self in a chinese shoes whose not from Hong kong and come to a "hong kong chinatown" in toronto and you'll see
I don't know how accurate your impression is but yes in general, when Chinese are pitted against outsiders, our own differences become minimal and insignificant, which I've already stated. But just like any other peoples, there are still divisions among ourselves. Can you name any significant group of people who DO NOT have divisions among themselves though?

how about the Jewish community? they're pretty darn united

still caught up in this topic huh?

Pangu
Chinese are very united indeed!......I know several incidents in the work places where you fired 1 chinese, a bunch of chinese quit the job....(never witness Vietnamese do this)...and if you hurt a chinese on the street, other will jump in and beat the crap out of you......but only when chinese are dealing with other cultures......among themselves however there are respects but also class of differences. I'm talking about a bigger picture, hope ya can imagine it....and put your self in a chinese shoes whose not from Hong kong and come to a "hong kong chinatown" in toronto and you'll see


It's funny how Viet people complain they're not as united as other Asian groups in US, but then my Chinese friends also think they're not united as Korean. And my korean friends think they're the least united group because of all the drama craps inside their churches :hahaha:

Vietnamese people needs to be more united, whether in business or as a community. I see so many Vietnamese going into the nail salon business competing against one another only to hurt themselves in the end. That's very sad.
What do you mean by "united" in doing business? The fact is that Vietnamese businesses are competing for the same Vietnamese customers since Vietnamese businesses are selling their products/services predominantly to Vietnamese customers. If Vietnamese businesses are competing for foreign customers than it's true that we need to form alliance.

Just look at American businesses (especially grocery stores), they are all trying to wack the head out of each other to get the same American customers that they are selling their products to.

Vietnamese people must diversify their business options, not just going into nail salon businesses to cannibalise one another's customers and in the end they all lose out because of lower profit due to higher competition. How about diversify into opening businesses such as grocery shop, real estate, food processing etc etc

Yeah I know about the nail business I have a friend that has to drive all the way to places like Valencia and Victorville because you can get almost double pay compared to around here in OC. Also I have another friend a dentist that has an office in carson city nevada because you cannot get that much money here because of excessive competition. BTW they are both Vietnamese

I think we should go hollywood and explore more of the entertainment industry, like enter the world of stunt man and stunt woman,,,,,,,,,,,back up dancers and singers for famous celebrities like Britney spear.......cleanning woman and maids for Jessica simpson et cetera et cetera.......papparazzi for Cher and old retired celebrities ........

I mean we should put our faces in the media and show the world what vietnamese really about.
we are strong and courageous and can replace jacky chan in the action scenes
we need vietnamese bill clinton and monica lewensky

regarding pangu
and other non Viets .....I believe Vietnamese don't have differences in culture but ideology.
the north were heavily influenced by Russian and the south with American. and only the generation grew up during the war that had so much differences..and separation.....say the 50s -80s....
before and after the war north and south have great respect for each other

they say on the Vietnam newspaper in chatrooms: sg boys like to talk to hanoi girls and Hanoi boys like SG girls.......and on the street of SG I see many couples speaking 2 different accents.....so I don't see anything north or south.........it's the shitty war that caused so much division.....now no more war, no more hate
now hanoi and saigon love each other.......like sonny and cher ......pamela anderson and kid rock......michael jackson and the children

oh yeah we need vietnamese michael jackson too

and superman

We don't need any of them because we've already got you, bang. ;)

well great points guys. Let me ask you guys a few questions:
1. have any of you been back to vietnam yet?
2. have you ever deal with any official?
3. have you ever find out how the vietnam system work?
4. have you find out about average salary for a worker, and how do they get their jobs on the 1st place?
those are few of many questions that you should consider before raising the pov. Yet, VN enter the WTO as a junior member, yet VN declare the visa policy, yet VN encourage Kieu" to buy properties & also investment.
anyway, these topic is broad and really you have to focus on how the system work in order for you to even comment on it.
- let get back to the question by 2010 vietnam would not change much.
Imagine that you have to raise a child, how long does it take? put an equation to that?!

vietnam is a beautiful country, go vietnam