And to think we were all worried about not being able to maintain a San Diego Thread..... :) I'm going to PM the moderator to make this a sticky


Links to:

SD Development Thread News 1
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=233950

SD Development Thread News 2
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=269048&page=25&pp=20

A couple of positive articles worthy of being posted -



Feature story from the January 2006 issue of California Construction Magazine-


DEMAND STILL TRUMPING RISING COSTS IN SAN DIEGO

Developers see a general slowing of momentum due to rising interest and lease rates and recent increases in fuel and material costs. Even so, with many large projects in the planning stages, it's hard for them to complain.

By David Silva

The sky may no longer be the limit for downtown San Diego developers, but according to Douglas Wilson, president and CEO of Douglas Wilson Cos., that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Diamond View Tower at the Ballpark (rendering courtesy of Carrier Johnson).
The market had been too hot for comfort, and, besides, what's on the horizon is heaven enough.

"I would say in the long term, we're probably in the third inning of a nine-inning ball game," Wilson said. "Things have begun to slow slightly because of rising interest rates and other issues. But this is better for the long term in that it brings more of a balance back between buyers and sellers. To have a market accelerate as fast as this one did is not really healthy."

Wilson isn't alone in his take on downtown's development climate. When asked what they saw as the top challenges facing the industry, several developers cited a general slowing of momentum due to rising interest and lease rates and recent increases in fuel and material costs.

But they also expressed optimism about the future. With so many ambitious projects under construction or in the planning stages, it's hard for them to complain too loudly.

San Diego's center can be likened these days to an elegant lady slipping out of her old coat while putting a beautiful new one on at the same time. Massive residential, retail and office projects are under way across downtown, with towers rising in anticipation of a fully revitalized city center. New hotels are opening so fast that the inventory of rooms is expected to nearly double to 6,100 rooms by 2007.

One of the projects Wilson said made him happy was The Mark, a $155 million, 33-story mixed-use beauty overlooking downtown San Diego's PETCO Park. The metal- and glass-skinned tower will include 229 one- and two-bedroom condominiums, 13 penthouses and 11 town homes. The Mark's 10,000 sq. ft. of retail space will open onto Market Street.

The development is designed by Shears Adkins Architects of Denver and executive architects Martinez + Cutri of San Diego. The Irvine office of Hensel Phelps Construction Co. is the general contractor for the project, which should be completed in early 2007.

Douglas Wilson is also planning a $95-million mixed-use residential development called CentrePoint, to be built near San Diego State University. The proposed 8.93-acre site will include 204 flats, 11 live/work units, 97 three-story town homes and 4,000 sq. ft. of retail space.

No general contractor or architect has been chosen for CentrePoint, which is slated to break ground next year and be completed in 2008.

"We're seeing a comeback in our commercial development," said Jason Luker, a spokesperson with the Centre City Development Corp., the city's redevelopment agency. "Almost everything we're getting is a mixed-use project. That's per our community plan for San Diego, but now it's become part of the market-we're seeing a lot of demand for ground-floor retail."

In downtown's East Village, JMI Realty, the real estate firm of San Diego Padres owner John Moores, and Lennar Urban Division of San Diego are developing 7.1 acres around PETCO Park in a massive mixed-use project called the Ballpark District.

The $1.4-billion, 3.2-million-sq.-ft. project has already seen the openings of JMI's $165-million Omni San Diego Hotel and $50-million Hotel Solamar. Still to come are three condominium towers of up to 500 ft. each at Park Boulevard and Imperial Avenue, 115,000 sq. ft. of retail space, 300,000 sq. ft. of office space and about 1,400 residential units.

Lennar is developing the residential portion of the project; a general contractor has not been selected.

Just across from the ballpark on a block bounded by 10th and 11th streets, Park Boulevard and K Street, Park Terrace Development LP of San Diego is building Park Terrace East Village, a 223-unit mixed-use, two-tower project with 20,000 sq. ft. of retail space. Fehlman LaBarre is the design architect and KMA Architecture & Engineering is the executive architect. Both firms are based in San Diego.

Construction began on the project in January and is expected to finish in spring 2007. Swinerton Inc. of San Francisco is the general contractor.

Also going up in the East Village is Diamond View Tower at the Ballpark, a 15-story, mixed-use office and retail project just beyond the right-field fence of PETCO Park at the southeast corner of 10th Avenue and J Street. Cisterra Partners LLC of San Diego is developing the site, which will include 250,000 sq. ft. of office space and 75,000 sq. ft. of retail and restaurant space.

San Diego-headquartered Carrier Johnson is the architect, and Reno Contracting of San Diego is the general contractor. Construction has started on the $90 million project, which should be completed by fall.

Vancouver, Canada-based Bosa Development recently broke ground on the $130 million Legend, a 23-story, 280,000-sq.-ft. mixed-use development directly north of PETCO Park in San Diego's Columbia neighborhood.

When it's completed in September 2007, The Legend will feature 170 condominiums, eight town homes and about 30,000 sq. ft. of retail space. Perkins & Co., also of Vancouver, is the architect for the project.

Bosa is also building San Diego's largest residential tower, the 43-story, 248-condominium Electra at Kettner Boulevard and Broadway. The firm is preserving the historic SDG&E Station B power plant building-designed by famed architect William Templeton Johnson - to provide Electra's two-story lobby and adjacent conservatory lounge with an industrial look.

Construction on the $170 million project began in September and will finish in March 2007. Chris Dikeakos Architects Inc., of Burnaby, B.C., is the primary architect for Electra. Bosa is its own general contractor for both projects.

Eric Martin, vice president of development for Bosa, said his company is also feeling the pressure from rising construction costs.

"Costs are going up across the board -fuel costs, material costs, labor, everything," he added. "The cost of reinforced concrete is especially high. But developers like us are also realizing great opportunities in urban areas like downtown San Diego. People are getting sick and tired of traffic and congestion and are looking toward more urban areas."

A major component to downtown's construction climate today is hotel development. At least seven major hotel projects are under way in or around the Gaslamp District.

Chief among the projects is the $200 million, 1.65-million-sq.-ft. Hilton Convention Center Hotel on the former Campbell Shipyard site in the East Village. The project features a 32-story, 385-ft.-high hotel tower with 1,200 rooms; 14,000-sq.-ft. restaurant; 5,360 sq. ft. of retail space; 106,000 sq. ft. of meeting space; 23,082-sq.-ft. health club; water-taxi dock for hotel guests; 2,000-space parking lot; and 4.3-acre public park and plaza along the water.

Officials with the Port of San Diego, which is developing the site, said a general contractor has not yet been chosen. Construction is expected to begin early this year and take 30 months to complete.

Also under development is a 412-room Hard Rock Hotel at L Street and Fifth Avenue; 250-room Spinnaker Hotel just west of the convention center in the East Village; 344-room Marriott Renaissance Hotel on J street between Fifth and Sixth avenues; 185-room Residence Inn by Marriott on Fifth between J and K streets; and The Diegan, a 185-room hotel on Fifth between Broadway and C Street.



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More good news from today's U-T -


COUNCIL GIVES PARK-TO-BAY LINK A $2 MILLION BOOST

Improvements involve trolley tracks, station

By Ronald W. Powell
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

January 25, 2006

A nearly 100-year-old plan to connect two San Diego icons – Balboa Park and San Diego Bay – is edging toward completion.

The San Diego City Council yesterday voted unanimously to authorize spending $2 million to realign San Diego Trolley tracks and relocate the City College trolley station at 12th Avenue and C Street.

The improvements are part of the $30 million Park-to-Bay Link that is intended to enhance pedestrian and trolley flow through the Park Boulevard corridor, a route south from the park to Harbor Drive and the waterfront.

San Diego's Redevelopment Agency is the source of the $2 million in council-approved funding. It will allow trolley tracks to run through the Smart Corner project, a 19-story residential and commercial development bounded by Park Boulevard, Broadway, 11th Avenue and C Street.

Yet to be constructed is a pedestrian bridge spanning Harbor Drive at Park Boulevard that is in the planning and financing stage. The bridge will cost $16 million to $20 million, with construction expected to begin in late summer or early fall and be completed in summer 2007.

Derek Danziger, spokesman for the Centre City Development Corp., the city's downtown redevelopment arm, said the council's funding is a boost to the park-to-bay concept that initially was advanced by urban planner John Nolen in 1908.

Nolen's plan was to build a landscaped promenade from Balboa Park west between Date and Elm streets to the bay, but that plan was scuttled.

In the 1980s, a coalition of downtown business leaders, downtown merchants and the urban planning group Citizens Coordinate for Century Three backed a plan for a two-block wide pedestrian bridge between Balboa Park's Marston Point and Cortez Hill as the first phase of a bay link.

That idea was also dropped, partly because the span would have cost as much as $70 million.

In 1999, the current park-to-bay concept emerged as part of the redevelopment of the East Village, which included building the Padres ballpark.

"Every dollar authorized to keep this project moving forward is extremely important," Danziger said. "It not only improves circulation for the trolley but also creates a pedestrian thoroughfare through the heart of the East Village."

The park-to-bay project is a partnership among the city's Redevelopment Agency, the Centre City Development Corp., and the Metropolitan Transit Development Board. Funding has been a mixture of federal, state and local government funds, including $15 million from the state for traffic congestion relief.

The first phase involved widening and realigning Park Boulevard from C Street to K Street, which included alterations to the route of the trolley tracks. Landscaping and street improvements were also made.

"Park Boulevard has become a nice arterial street through downtown that is aesthetically pleasing and functional," Danziger said.

Hmm the park to bay link is at least alive. Its one of those under the radar projects for me. Like Vantage Pointe and the mid-rise projects east of the gaslamp.

Im waiting for office development though.

Sure it's alive, problem not a 'thing', but a bunch of project driven improvements along the way. I guess generic developments to clean up the promenade along these points might be the most obvious face of it.

Something along the lines which I find just as important is the C street revitalization. If they ever successfully clean that up, coupled with the coming together of the Park to Bay Link downtown will be exceedingly less seedy (sorry, like the way that sounds ;)

We love seedy!!!

^^Yeah but rich condo owners don't find it to attractive. ;)

Ha, look what a friend sent me.
Mattel recently announced the release of Limited-Edition Barbie dolls for the San Diego, California area market:


Chula Vista Barbie - This Spanish-speaking-only Barbie comes with a 1984 Toyota with expired temporary plates and three baby Barbies in the back seat, but no car seats. The optional Ken doll comes with a pickup truck loaded 10 feet high with mattresses. Green cards are not available for Chula Vista Barbie or Ken.


National City Barbie - This Barbie now comes with a stroller and an infant doll. Optional accessories include a GED and bus/trolley pass. Gangsta Ken and his 79 Caddy (with switches) were available, but are now very difficult to find since the addition of the infant.


Rancho Bernardo Barbie - This modern-day homemaker Barbie is available with a Ford Windstar minivan and matching gym outfit. She gets lost easily and has no full-time occupation or secondary education. Traffic-jamming cell phone included, headset sold separately.


Oceanside Barbie - This recently paroled, tattooed & nose pierced Barbie comes with a 9 mm handgun, a ready lifted desert/river Chevy truck with dark tinted windows, and a methlab kit. This model is only available after dark and can only be paid for in cash - preferably in small, untraceable bills. Unless you are a cop, then we don't know what you're talking about.


Vista Barbie - The upgrade from O'side Barbie. Married Camp Pendleton Ken and now tries to raise 3 kids under age 8 while husband is deployed in Iraq. Available in White, Black and Samoan.


Del Mar Barbie - This yuppie Barbie comes with her own Starbucks cup, credit card, and country club membership. Optional children available only after a visit with Plastic Surgeon Ken.


Rancho San Diego Barbie - Comes with a towel for her head. Is co-owner of a liquor store, along with Ken. (K pronounced like G in Spanish ) Nose job already done, and Ken comes with his own bottle of Hennessey and a cigar. Hopes Anglo neighbors never see Iraqi flag inside house.

Santee Barbie - This pale model comes dressed in a shirt, and a Tweety Bird tattoo on her shoulder. She has a six-pack of Coors Light and a Hank Williams, Jr. CD set. She can spit over 5 feet and kick mullet-haired Ken's back side when she is drunk. Purchase her pickup truck separately and get a confederate flag bumper sticker absolutely free.


La Jolla Barbie - This collagen injected, rhinoplastic Barbie wears a leopard-print bikini outfit and drinks cosmopolitans while entertaining friends at the beach house. Percocet prescription available.


Lakeside Barbie - This tobacco-chewing, brassy-haired Barbie has a pair of her own high-heeled sandals with one broken heel from the time she chased Beer-Gut Ken out of Lemon Grove Barbie's house. Her ensemble includes low-rise acid-washed jeans, fake fingernails, and a see-through halter top. Also available with a mobile home.


Leucadia Barbie- This doll is made of actual tofu. She has long, straight brown hair, archless feet, hairy armpits, no makeup, and Birkenstocks with white socks. She smokes good sinsemilla buds and prefers that you call her "Willow". She does not want or need a Ken doll, but if you purchase two Leucadia Barbie's and the optional Volvo wagon, you get a coupon for a free wheat-grass smoothie at any Whole Food's Market.


Poway Barbie - She's perfect in every way. We don't know who Ken is because he's always away working. The only Barbie with anorexic male children because they wrestle for Poway High.


Reservation Barbie - Available only at Viejas Outlet Stores. Wears large t-shirts and leather & turquoise beaded belts. Miffed that she was not chosen as the Ice Princess for the Viejas Holiday Nights Show (they wanted a white girl). Peace Pipe Ken drives Dodge Ram with all factory options but can never be cleaned. Also comes with magnetic bullet holes and never ending supply of peyote.


Hillcrest Barbie/Ken - This versatile doll can be easily converted from Barbie to Ken by simply adding or subtracting the multiple "snap-on" parts. Bonus: free rainbow flag sticker with proof of purchase, along with valuable discount coupons to all "F" street bookstores.


Pacific Beach Barbie -This Barbie is always bitching that she can't find a good man in Pacific Beach. Comes with heart & wings lower back tattoo.


Carlsbad Barbie - This princess Barbie is only sold at the brand new La Costa Forum. She comes with an assortment of Kate Spade handbags, a Lexus SUV, a long-haired dog named Honey, and a cookie-cutter house. Available with or without tummy tuck and face lift. Workaholic Ken sold only in conjunction with "augmented" version.


Valley Center Barbie - Thinks she is better than Escondido Barbie because she doesn't live in town and rich enough to live in the country. Secretly wishes to be either Carlsbad or Del Mar Barbie. Consoles herself by frequenting Pala Casino. Child with missing hand is not factory defect but due to a bad encounter with a lion at the San Diego Wild Animal Park after mom stopped watching children due to a depression induced migraine.


San Marcos Barbie - This Barbie was a high school cheerleader and can perform many routines for the undeserving Ken doll she married right out of high school. Comes with poorly fitting cheerleading uniform 2 sizes too small and an ankle bracelet that will sound if Barbie moves more than 5 miles away from her old alma mater.


Southeast Barbie - This Ghetto Queen comes with optional 'baby-daddy' car and pop-out baby seats. This barbie comes standard with a set of press-on nails and ponytails in various lengths. Don't mess with the breezie. She has a strong attitude and a mouth to prove it. This barbie also comes with optional girlfriends to help you do drive-by's to find out if Ken is out with some other hoochie.


Mira Mesa Barbie - This Barbie is skinny and asian who thinks she knows how to drive. She comes standard with a s00ped up Honda Civic that can only drive 15mph in the city but 90mph on the freeway. Available with a big six bedroom house, 5 grandparents and 20 kids who can run around screaming. Ken comes with a garage so he can s00p up all his friends Hondas too. He can been seen between 12am - 2am zipping up Kearny Villa Road or Mira Mesa Blvd by the 5/805 split.


East County Barbie - Was a cheerleader in middle school but now only rides with Desert Rat Ken in his California lifted Ford F-150, complete with white unfinished flair fenders, bed floor removed for spare tire holder, and no carburetor. F-150 can only be purchased by parents who live in Alpine. Both come with optional Weed from Harbison Canyon and/or barbed wire tattoo. Will party in the desert all through her 20s and then finish her AA at Grossmont College when she's 35.


Temecula Barbie - Desperately wants to be part of San Diego Barbie collection but can't afford a house in SD. But she does actually own a house with Commuter Ken. Ken knows I-15 like the back of his hand as he spends 4 hours a day driving to and from work.

^^ :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious

Ok, the person who created that San Diego Barbie list is obviously a native, because he or she nailed every stereotype of each 'hood :) . Thanks for sharing, Dewback.



Sure it's alive, problem not a 'thing', but a bunch of project driven improvements along the way. I guess generic developments to clean up the promenade along these points might be the most obvious face of it.
The one interesting project along the trolley line is the SmartCorner project. Have you all seen their website showing how the trolley runs right through it? http://www.smartcorner.net/index.htm Could it be another cool trolley stop like the one at OAP?


Something along the lines which I find just as important is the C street revitalization. If they ever successfully clean that up, coupled with the coming together of the Park to Bay Link downtown will be exceedingly less seedy (sorry, like the way that sounds ;)
I totally agree with you here. That corridor has potential to be a very vibrant area, since it cuts right through the financial district.

Check out the different designs of the future Hilton. They're all pretty similar, but I wonder which one is the final product????



These are from the architects website - (The version we've seen the most of) http://www.jwdainc.com/projects/project22/project22_1.shtml

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/01-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/04.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/02-2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/05.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/06.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/03.jpg


From the John Portman & Associates website http://www.portmanusa.com/work_in_progress/w_sandiego_hilton.html

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/w_sandiego_hilton.jpg



Finally, a small one from yesterday's article announcing the completed financing of the hotel from GlobeSt (Notice the lack of antennas)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/sad_hiltonsandiego.jpg

CONVENTION CENTER RECEIVES $348M FINANCING

By Daniel D. Williams
Last updated: January 24, 2006 08:11am

SAN DIEGO-The long-awaited Hilton San Diego Convention Center Hotel took another step toward reality yesterday. The planned 1,190-room project closed on $348 million in construction financing, according to the developers, who completed financing with San Diego National Bank.

“We have spent a year putting that financing together,” says Thomas Arasi, president of Portman Holdings, one of the project’s developers. Atlanta-based Portman and Greeley, CO-based Phelps Development, a wholly owned subsidiary of Hensel Phelps Construction Co., are partnering on the project. The Convention Center Hotel is expected to be the largest single hotel development in 2006 in the US.

The project dates back to 2001, when the developers “were the winning group through an RFP,” Arasi tells Globest.com. In December of that year, the Port Commission considered proposals to build a $300 million-plus hotel at the former Campbell Shipyard site, at the southeast end of the Convention Center, near Eighth Avenue and Harbor Drive.

The other finalists on the project were Maritime Venture Partners LLC; TUDC LP with Tishman Urban Development Corp. as general partner and THR Management LP as limited partner; and ML Hotels LLC, a partnership of Marriott International Inc. and Landmark Organization LP.

After such an arduous road to fruition, Arasi says, “It is gratifying to clear the last hurdle. This hotel will have a dynamic impact on both San Diego’s skyline and economy and will dramatically enhance the marketing strength of the Convention Center.”

He adds that the project fills a large niche in the San Diego market. “While the city has a number of hotels in place, there’s actually a shortage, particularly in peak periods, for large convention space,” Arasi says.

Mattel recently announced the release of Limited-Edition Barbie dolls for the San Diego, California area market:

They forgot Downtown Barbie

This yuppie Barbie has a Bachelor's from SDSU & comes with an $800,000 studio in the Marina district (which she struggles to pay her monthly mortgage). Also included are maxed out credit cards and a small dog (chow-chow or pomeranian) to walk on Sunday mornings. Gaslamp Ken comes in varying degrees of metrosexuality (from "almost gay" to "straight up QUEER" and has been known to come home with Downtown Barbie @ 4AM, Friday nights depending on how drunk he gets her.

Regarding the Hilton Hotel:

Do you guys think it's possible that it'll expand and construct a 2nd tower just like the other 2 convention hotels (Hyatt & Marriott) did?

How tall is the Hilton Convention Center Hotel?

Downtown Barbie is good!!

Regarding the Hilton Hotel:

Do you guys think it's possible that it'll expand and construct a 2nd tower just like the other 2 convention hotels (Hyatt & Marriott) did?
Gosh, I hope not, we already have too many twin towers in the skyline.

How tall is the Hilton Convention Center Hotel?
It's 385 feet

Holy shit, that Barbie list was good stuff.


The one interesting project along the trolley line is the SmartCorner project. Have you all seen their website showing how the trolley runs right through it? http://www.smartcorner.net/index.htm Could it be another cool trolley stop like the one at OAP?


Yeah, that's the idea, the ultimate mixed-used bonanza - residential/commercial/transportation synergy. I registered at Smartcorner way back when but the prices were out of touch with reality. I like the project plenty though and am a big fan of the architect. My only worry with how they set up the trolley is the noise to the interior facing units. I have a place at a project similar in oddness, Fahrenheit - residential/retail(shopkeepers)/transportation(parking garage ;))

Update today from CCDC (partial, full document at ccdc.com):


BOARD APPROVES 17th & G MIXED-USE PROJECT (East Village)
The Board approved developer Intracorp's mixed-use project on the southeast corner of 17th and G streets. The 12-story project will contain 122 market-rate condominiums, including studios, one- and two-bedrooms, approximately 7,500 square feet of retail space and a total of 171 parking spaces. The project site, which is one of downtown's gateway streets from the SR-94 on-ramp, will include public art. (Vote: 4-0, Chair LeSar absent).
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/17th & G 2.jpg

16th & J (Katalyst) - Centre City Development Permit for 80 residential units and approximately 3,900 sf of commercial space in an eight-story building (92 feet) located on the southeast corner of 16th and J streets-East Village.
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/16th & J.jpg

Front & Cedar (Michael Sabourin) - Centre City Development Permit/Variance for 62 residential units and 1,140 sf of commercial space in a 15-story building (162 feet) located on the north side of Cedar Street, between Union and Front streets-Cortez.
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/620 Cedar.jpg

Also, here's a new project I hadn't heard about - does anyone else have any info on this one? This is the Burger King site I think.
10th & B (KB Home Coastal) - Centre City Development Permit for 191 residential units and approximately 14,000 sf of ground-floor commercial space in a 20-story (236 feet) building located on the north side of B Street, between Tenth and Eleventh avenues-Core.

And, I'm full throttle on the Mondrian renderings these days - the development team will be presenting throughout February and I should be able to post something by the end of next month.

Finally, my two cents on the Hilton:
My problem is not so much the architectural design as much as the program and massing. In my opinion, the decision to put another large hotel on the waterfront is flawed. For the most part, this is due to the port's control of the land. The massing of the tower also bothers me. It's an unrelieved 380 foot wall right up against the water - albeit the short dimension but pretty brutal nonetheless. I would have preferred to see a building that steps back from the water's edge to 150-180 feet or so along Harbor Drive. This would allow more of the rooms to have a direct view of the water, it would have created an opportunity to disguise the massive parking garage on site, and it would have been able to make a positive contribution to the pedestrian environment. Instead, the new Hilton is just one more self-absorbed, insulated tower that sets itself apart from the rest of downtown.

Do you guys think it's possible that it'll expand and construct a 2nd tower just like the other 2 convention hotels (Hyatt & Marriott) did?No, this project chews up the rest of the land between the convention center and the 10th Ave Terminal. I suppose if the terminal were sold and redeveloped, there would be the potential to have another hotel to the south but it certainly wouldn't be a twin to the Hilton. But that's a whole other can of worms. :)

Great renderings, sbaumberger. I take it, you did these?

17th & G and 16th & J aren't bad-looking, but the Front & Cedar project could use a little more pizzazz . It reminds me of a 1970's medical building.

And, I'm full throttle on the Mondrian renderings these days - the development team will be presenting throughout February and I should be able to post something by the end of next month.;))
How's it coming along? We've seen the initial rendering of it, but it doesn't really show how over 800 units can fit into a 410 foot building.

My problem is not so much the architectural design as much as the program and massing. In my opinion, the decision to put another large hotel on the waterfront is flawed. For the most part, this is due to the port's control of the land. The massing of the tower also bothers me. It's an unrelieved 380 foot wall right up against the water - albeit the short dimension but pretty brutal nonetheless. I would have preferred to see a building that steps back from the water's edge to 150-180 feet or so along Harbor Drive. This would allow more of the rooms to have a direct view of the water, it would have created an opportunity to disguise the massive parking garage on site, and it would have been able to make a positive contribution to the pedestrian environment. Instead, the new Hilton is just one more self-absorbed, insulated tower that sets itself apart from the rest of downtown.
I couldn't have said it better myself.


My only worry with how they set up the trolley is the noise to the interior facing units. I have a place at a project similar in oddness, Fahrenheit - residential/retail(shopkeepers)/transportation(parking garage ;))
Good point. Hopefully, most of the residential units are located outside of the trolley corridor. I think the SmartCorner project is cool-looking, also. Fahrenheit is a great project. Do you know if they are going to paint the exterior? Typically, I hate seeing exposed concrete, but it works for this project. The orange accents really makes it pop. It reminds me of a building that you would find in Europe.

Something along the lines which I find just as important is the C street revitalization.
Just some FYI -

I read in the leasing news that Ross Dress For Less has signed a lease for 10 years along the C Street Trolley Corridor. Perhaps it's a sign that the area is finally transforming for the better.

Finally, my two cents on the Hilton: (Quote:)
My problem is not so much the architectural design as much as the program and massing. In my opinion, the decision to put another large hotel on the waterfront is flawed. For the most part, this is due to the port's control of the land. The massing of the tower also bothers me. It's an unrelieved 380 foot wall right up against the water - albeit the short dimension but pretty brutal nonetheless. I would have preferred to see a building that steps back from the water's edge to 150-180 feet or so along Harbor Drive. This would allow more of the rooms to have a direct view of the water, it would have created an opportunity to disguise the massive parking garage on site, and it would have been able to make a positive contribution to the pedestrian environment. Instead, the new Hilton is just one more self-absorbed, insulated tower that sets itself apart from the rest of downtown.


Hey, I have a question about this whole hilton project. People talk about walling-off the waterfront with hotels....what about walling-off the convention center? How does the city plan on expanding the already to small convention center in the future? Build up? The c.c. will have to expand some time in the future to keep up with other cities.Where are they going to expand? Does the city have any real plan for this or are they going to let a cash-cow for the city fade against better c.c.'s? Any thoughts on this?....

^^Good point, but I don't think there will be a need for such a thing in decades. Then again I don't watch convention center trends. They could go up, but they better make it look as good as it is now. Or maybe just build a new one, like a subsidiary, near the center city.

^^Good point, but I don't think there will be a need for such a thing in decades. Then again I don't watch convention center trends. They could go up, but they better make it look as good as it is now. Or maybe just build a new one, like a subsidiary, near the center city.




They already lose a lot of the larger conventions to Las vegas,Chicago, etc...They are also in danger of losing some of their larger and regular conventions because they are running out of space. Comic-con alone had something like 105,000 attend last year.That's one convention over a 4 day period. It really bothers me that no one seems to plan ahead or big like other cities. San Diego needs to view itself as the big city it is and think big.It's not good enough to stand still.Cities grow or die but never stay the same.Please someone start thinking ahead....

Well then what do we do? Tear down the marriots? Move the Gaslamp over to build another wing of the center? I know you can't answer that, but....my best bet would be the 10th ave terminal....

Well then what do we do? Tear down the marriots? Move the Gaslamp over to build another wing of the center? I know you can't answer that, but....my best bet would be the 10th ave terminal....



I guess my point is that someone, anyone downtown have some type of vision when they build things. If you want your convention center to last 20 years then you need to plan for expansion. In case no one noticed,San Diego grows at a faster rate than most cities. People like to visit here and live here.PLAN FOR GROWTH WHEN YOU BUILD! That's the point. Not just the convention center either. What about Petco Park. Can it be expanded like Qualcomm was 3 or 4 times in it's life? The new cruise line center? Will they once again build it for today or plan for the future with it? I guess I am really tired of the cities small thinking with it's projects. This is a San Diego thing that doesn't happen in all cities. It's why we still don't have a new airport. Because someone at sometime said "The airports fine.1 runway? No problem.We don't need to expand it.We can wait..." I LOVE San Diego.I just hate the lack of vision at city hall these days!

Just some FYI -

I read in the leasing news that Ross Dress For Less has signed a lease for 10 years along the C Street Trolley Corridor. Perhaps it's a sign that the area is finally transforming for the better.
Ok, just to make myself clear, having Ross lease space on the C Street corridor is a positive thing because it might be the beginning of more retailers moving into an otherwise undesirable part of downtown. We all know that drug dealers seem to hang out on C Street. Ideally, this has potential to become a vibrant pedestrian mall similar to Denver's 16th St. Mall.

I think of Cst as having bistros and cafes that appeal to the workers who are in the many office towers along the corridor. Its the asphalt that is pulling it down. Its horrible, so many cracks and uneven patchs...if they just fixed that it would be half way better.

It's 385 feet
oh thank you, is about 117m. :)

How does the city plan on expanding the already to small convention center in the future? Build up? The c.c. will have to expand some time in the future to keep up with other cities.Where are they going to expand? Does the city have any real plan for this or are they going to let a cash-cow for the city fade against better c.c.'s? Any thoughts on this?....
As I recall, there was a plan to further the expansion of the CC across Harbor Drive, into what will eventually become Ballpark Village. I'm not sure they can expand outwards now. Maybe they'll find a way to build it over Harbor Drive or something. The CC has been good and bad for downtown. Good, because it's setting on the bay is hard to beat, when compared to many other CC's. It's why many conventions chose to be in San Diego. It's bad because it blocks access and street level views to the bay from most of downtown. When it was first built it was the largest center on the West Coast. As you said, other centers are expanding and now ours is nowhere near the top (size-wise). I think it will always be successful, but we won't be able to attract the top-tier conventions unless the center grows with the demand. Fortunately, our hotel stock is growing like crazy and that will also keep our CC competitive.

If you want your convention center to last 20 years then you need to plan for expansion.


Well it's been going 16.5 years, surely it can make it to 20 in style. LOL. There have been plans to expand, it's not in the realm of impossibility.


BTW, that claim Mr. sterlling made a few days ago about Vantage Pointe having a completion date of Summer 2008 way back in 2004 - he will not furnish any evidence when confronted here and twice in PM. I know it's hard to admit that you're wrong when you get your dates mixed up but please realize it's really insulting to those who had to put up with things like this in real time.

Well it's been going 16.5 years, surely it can make it to 20 in style. LOL. There have been plans to expand, it's not in the realm of impossibility.


BTW, that claim Mr. sterlling made a few days ago about Vantage Pointe having a completion date of Summer 2008 way back in 2004 - he will not furnish any evidence when confronted here and twice in PM. I know it's hard to admit that you're wrong when you get your dates mixed up but please realize it's really insulting to those who had to put up with things like this in real time.



Hello, Thought I was at the S.D. dev. news forum, not at court. I missed your post but did reply to you when I saw my mail. I don't tape record everytime I enter a sales office or anywhere else. If you don't believe something posted,fine.Don't.But please keep the forum free from bashing others.We just went through this recently with something posted by two forumers.We are all here to learn about San Diego dev. projects.If you think my dates are mixed up,fine...whatever.I am totally wrong---what was I thinking?! Can we go back to what this forum was intended for now? Thank you...

Has anyone seen pictures of 445 west ash or grand pacific tower posted yet? If so, where?

I don't tape record everytime I enter a sales office or anywhere else.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time - but you _did_ claim to have a particular email from August 2004. But I'll take this back to PM since I have a response there now.

BTW I directed the last bits of conversation in the prior thread to the Vantage Pointe list moderator, he mentioned that excavation is nearing completion and structure should begin within the next few weeks.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time - but you _did_ claim to have a particular email from August 2004. But I'll take this back to PM since I have a response there now.




That's all I ask...Thank you..

Has anyone seen pictures of 445 west ash or grand pacific tower posted yet? If so, where?
Haven't seen renderings of either yet, but check out some past residential projects from the architect of 445 west ash under the residential portofolio www.nbbj.com. I'd be happy if we got something remotely similar to either of those :)

BTW I directed the last bits of conversation in the prior thread to the Vantage Pointe list moderator, he mentioned that excavation is nearing completion and structure should begin within the next few weeks.
I'm looking forward to finally seeing some steel beams go up. We've waited long enough!!

In case anyone missed it, here's the article in yesterday's U-T regarding the Hilton. The articles says it's 30 stories, instead of 32, and is accompanied by yet another rendering, which is confusing. I like the idea of having a 4.3 acre bayside park. :)


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/met_hilton.jpg


WATERFRONT HOTEL GETS UNDER WAY

30-story Hilton to rise on historic shipyard

By Ronald W. Powell
STAFF WRITER

January 27, 2006

The site of a historic shipyard is poised to become home to a 30-story Hilton Hotel development designed to boost business at the adjacent San Diego Convention Center.

When completed in late 2008, the 1,190-room waterfront hotel is expected to help the convention center land larger business meetings and trade shows.

When operating at typical capacity, projections are that the hotel will generate more than $8 million a year in room taxes for the city of San Diego.

That's largely why Mayor Jerry Sanders will be the keynote speaker at today's 9 a.m. ceremonial groundbreaking at the construction site at Eighth Avenue and Harbor Drive.

“The mayor believes this hotel is an important component to make the convention center as productive as possible,” said Sanders' spokesman, Fred Sainz, who until December was vice president of public affairs for the convention center.

“It will go a long way toward maximizing the potential of the convention center expansion of 2001,” Sainz said.

The $348 million high-rise will join the 1,352-room Marriott Hotel and Marina and the 1,625-room Manchester Grand Hyatt on San Diego Bay near the convention center.

Built on state tidelands administered by the San Diego Unified Port District, the Hilton development will be on 10.2 acres south and east of the convention center and will include a 4.3-acre park. Also included will be $2 million in public art.

While privately financed, the project will receive a $46.5 million subsidy from the Port District – in the form of a rent reduction – during its first 10 years, including construction.

As landlord, the port expects to receive $3 million annually in rent after the hotel opens and while the rent break is in place, and $6 million a year afterward. The hotel will operate under a 66-year port lease.

The port has discussed building a hotel at the former Campbell Industries shipyard site since the late 1980s. The dream had to withstand the challenges of a $17 million contamination cleanup, funding problems in a turbulent hotel financing market and escalating construction costs to reach today's ceremonial start of construction.

Port Commissioner Stephen Cushman said the seeds for the Hilton project were planted about eight years ago when he was on the convention center board. Cushman said he had a conversation with labor leader Jerry Butkiewicz about a hotel at the Campbell site that would have union workers.

“We talked about how there are up to 50,000 (union) delegates a year who will only hold conventions where they can stay in unionized hotels,” Cushman said. “Since we don't have a unionized hotel, that's business that San Diego has been missing out on.”

When the San Diego City Council appointed Cushman to the Port Commission in 1998, he took the idea with him. The Hilton, which will have about 800 full-time employees, will be unionized.

Convention Center President Carol Wallace said unions will be among the new markets that will be courted because of the Hilton. Her staff will start seeking conventions for 2009 that will be offered the option of staying in the new hotel.

“Once the ground is broken, it opens the door for us to begin selling those hotel rooms right now,” Wallace said.

Based on convention volume, San Diego ranks in the low 20s among U.S. cities, Wallace said. But she said its weather, water views and attractions put it among the top five cities as a preferred destination.

Even though the convention center was recently expanded, the lack of hotel rooms has constrained business, Wallace said. The Hilton, which will be a headquarters hotel for conventioneers, will increase the number of hotel rooms in downtown San Diego to about 10,000.

It also should boost San Diego's stature among convention cities, Wallace said.

In 1999, hotel developer Doug Manchester struck an agreement with the port to build a hotel at the Campbell site, which had been a shipyard since the early 1900s. Hopes ran high because Manchester had built the Marriott and Hyatt in the 1980s and early 1990s.

But in 2001, the port paid Manchester $5 million to renounce his right to build after the two sides became embroiled in a dispute about the hotel's design.

In May 2002, the Port Commission selected a development group led by Hilton to build on the site.

Perry Dealy, president of Manchester Development, said the Hilton will be a good addition to the waterfront.

“It's in a location that will help give the city's skyline more of a presence next to the convention center,” said Dealy, adding that Manchester is not worried about losing business to the new hotel.

But Dealy said Manchester Development is unhappy that Hilton is receiving a port subsidy since the Marriott and Hyatt were not afforded the sweetener.

“That's a sore subject with us,” Dealy said.

Karen Weymann, the port's assistant director of real estate, said part of the reason for the subsidy is because the Hilton group is paying for the 4.3-acre waterfront park. The expanse will become part of the Park-to-Bay Link, a partially landscaped route connecting Balboa Park and the bay.

“That's a pretty significant amenity for the public,” Weymann said of the park.

A $245 million construction loan from San Diego National Bank anchors the hotel's financing package. ING Clarion Partners and Hilton are providing $100 million in equity, with ING putting up $60 million and Hilton contributing $40 million.

Portman Holdings and Phelps Program Management are co-developers on the project, and Hensel Phelps Construction will build it.

The port has already built parking for the hotel at a 2,000-car, $26 million garage at the site. The garage opened last February.

i think the convention center could be expanded by looking west. yes, yes. in the water. create land and build another building if necessary. i dont think expansion is in the plans anytime soon though.

Maybe we can find a downtown site to build a new sports arena. LA uses their Staples Center as sort of an extension to their Convention Center.

I know, I know, how can we build one if the city has had a hard time with the Chargers stadium proposal and even Petco Park (which took forever to complete)? But just putting that idea out as a possibility. . . .

i think the convention center could be expanded by looking west. yes, yes. in the water. create land and build another building if necessary. i dont think expansion is in the plans anytime soon though.

In case the CC gets a development, it wouldn't surprise me if they actually tried to expand it towards the water. I guess they could build another level/story to the building in case they are unable to find available land.

The idea of a sports arena in downtown sounds desirable, but its wasting prime real estate potential. A good redevelopment alternative would be build it in the outskirts of Barrio Logan or some place like that. Won't happen tho.

^ Somewhere in East Village?

^ Somewhere in East Village?

But San Diego REALLY needs a NBA team/NHL team.

Does anyone have any info on the Triangle at 14th/Imperial? The site was cleared some time ago, but then there's been no actvity there for several weeks now. And just recently a Grubb & Ellis sign popped up that advertises the property as "available for development." That's a pretty tough little corner of town, maybe they didn't get as much interest in the project and have cancelled it?

Thought I'd post this here also, since it's a current development project -



Originally posted by Stockjock in the "Downtown San Diego" thread
For anyone interested, here are a few pics of the Vantage Pointe San Diego architectural model. Follow the link to view: http://public.fotki.com/bwillis/vantage_pointe/vantage_pointe_model/

http://home.san.rr.com/winefinds/model.jpg

Does anyone have any info on the Triangle at 14th/Imperial? The site was cleared some time ago, but then there's been no actvity there for several weeks now. And just recently a Grubb & Ellis sign popped up that advertises the property as "available for development." That's a pretty tough little corner of town, maybe they didn't get as much interest in the project and have cancelled it?
From your lead, I called the developer today (Intracorp), and asked about this project. Apparently, things are still a go. Although they were anticipating construction to start this month, the associate said it should begin late next month. When I asked why the Triangle website was down, she said it was in the process of being upgraded. She wasn't aware of the Grubb & Ellis sign. Apparently, they are also transforming the Park Terrace showroom/sales office into a Triangle showroom/sales office. Let's see if she was feeding crap or if this really happens.

Wow, Vantage point looks real good. Let's jus hope that the real building will be as good as the model...cuz a lot of the time, the model looks NOTHING like the actual building (like that Damn Allegro Tower).

I'm surprised Cortez Blu ended up looking as good as it did...the renderings alone scared me, but that building came out pretty okay imo.

any word on the 600 A project. it is the building with the crazy "world trade center" style top. diagonal sliced cube look? it is an office building apparently.

Scripps Investments backing Cosmopolitan Square project
By JERAN WITTENSTEIN, The Daily Transcript
Tuesday, January 31, 2006
Print E-Mail
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Scripps Investments & Loans Inc., a San Diego-based private equity lender, announced Tuesday it has provided $28.5 million in financing for Cosmopolitan Square, a mixed-use residential high rise development project in downtown.
“We are pleased to continue our involvement with the Cosmopolitan Square project,” said Jeffrey E. Lubin, the company’s president. “The location of the project is one of the best available developable blocks in downtown San Diego. Having participated in the acquisition financing for the project, we saw this next round of financing as a good opportunity for our investors.”
The Cosmopolitan Square project is located one block north of Petco Park. Upon completion, the project will contain 235 condominiums, 12,485 square feet of retail space and restaurants, 17,106 square feet of office space, and a 450 stall parking garage.

^^ That's great news! Cosmopolitan Square is one of my favorite projects of them all.

Here's an interesting article from today's U-T on the man responsible for the downtown residential boom -




DOWNTOWN'S TOWERING FORCE

Developer Nat Bosa led boom of high-rise condos

By Mike Freeman
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

January 31, 2006

Nat Bosa tends to sprinkle his conversation with colorful phrases. He once referred to downtown San Diego as a block of ice frozen in time.

In his office last week, Bosa picked another colorful phrase when talking about what convinced him in the mid-1990s that sleepy downtown was ripe for a high-rise condominium boom.

“If you want to get anywhere in life, one eye and one ear should be enough for you,” said Bosa, with a slight Italian accent. “The other eye and other ear should be for people who know more than you.”

That was Bosa's way of saying he saw in San Diego a mirror image of his adopted hometown, Vancouver, British Columbia, 10 years earlier, when investors from Hong Kong gobbled up the best property just as that city's condo craze exploded.

So Bosa took a page from the Chinese and began buying the best harbor-view sites in downtown San Diego, many of which were parking lots.

Today, Bosa Development ranks alongside the Padres ballpark as the two most influential forces reshaping downtown.

Before Bosa's arrival, high-rise condominium projects in San Diego hadn't exactly thrived. The developer of the Harbor Club went into bankruptcy in 1993. The Meridian took years longer to sell out than developers expected. Local builders shunned downtown in favor of what Southern California is known for – sprawling suburban tract homes.

The success of Bosa's projects helped convinced developers to gamble on downtown. The result as been about 4,000 new condo units in the last five years, with 10,000 more expected in the next decade.

“Nat came in with a little bigger product, a little more high-end,” said Keith Fernandez of Intracorp San Diego, another Canadian-based developer active downtown. “He was bolder than we were. I think we saw the market, but we were more cautious. He charged right in.”

Bosa has completed six towers downtown, including Horizons at First and Market, Discovery at El Cortez Hill, Park Place on Harbor Drive and The Grande on Pacific Highway.

Two other high-rise condos, the Electra at Broadway and Kettner and The Legend just beyond left field at Petco Park, are under construction. A handful of other towers are on the drawing boards.

And San Diego is just part of the Bosa résumé. The company has built more than 60 projects in the Vancouver area and in Calgary. It has projects in Irvine and on Maui. And Bosa just bought land in San Francisco for 1,690 units.

The company, which has built as much as $3 billion in projects by some estimates, also owns shopping centers and other commercial property.

“A great condominium project can be like a rain shower. But that (commercial property) is the steady drop that keeps you going because sometimes you can be dry for a long time,” Bosa said.

In today's development world, Bosa is a bit of a throwback. He often makes decisions about whether to proceed with projects on the spot, unlike many of today's publicly traded builders who must hack through layers of superiors for approvals.

Bosa got his start in the business swinging a hammer at job sites, not in a real estate finance class in college. Yet to this day he has a knack for estimating the total cost of a project in his head – usually within 5 percent to 10 percent accuracy – before actual bids from subcontractors come in.

Bosa left school at age 16 – three years after his parents moved the family from Treviso, Italy, to Canada – to join his brothers in the framing business.

According to family lore, the brothers weren't the best framing crew in Vancouver. But they were the fastest. They would finish the job, then go back and correct their mistakes, before any other crew could complete the job once.

Bosa has been charging forward ever since. As one business associate put it, “he's a true believer in time is money. The worst thing that can happen to a job is it gets bogged down.”

Bosa left the brothers' company to start his development business in 1986. His instinct for building projects is uncanny, said Jason Bosa, who worked with his father before leaving in the mid-1990s to join his mother in the jewelry business.

In 1991, Jason traveled to Calgary to scout sites for potential high rises a day ahead of his father. “What I saw was a beautiful city that had no real economic value,” he said. “I didn't see the immediate potential.”

When Nat Bosa arrived the next day, the real estate agent showed him the same sites Jason had looked at.

“Quite literally my dad was saying, 'Tie up this one and tie up that one' as we're driving by in the car,” Jason said. “He did the same thing in San Diego. It's like he has a third eye when he looks at real estate and looks at cities and their potential. He can feel the vibe of a city and just knows when it's about to pop for real residential living in a downtown sense.”

Two of Bosa's sons, Jim and Ryan, have started their own development companies in Vancouver. His youngest daughter, Natalie, is finishing college and plans to join Bosa Development.

At 61, Bosa retains the solid physique of a construction worker. An avid golfer, skier and mountain biker, he takes a couple days off each week to hit the slopes, links or trails.

Yet Bosa also is very active in the business, managing it with a handful of trusted employees whom he relies on heavily.

“He has projects all over the place,” said Peter Hall, the retired president of Centre City Development Corp. “He's very personally involved.

That personal involvement help calm a potential conflict in San Diego when Bosa poured the concrete foundation for the twin towers of The Grande on Pacific Highway a couple of years ago.

It was a massive job that had to be done in one continuous cycle to maintain structural integrity. More than 250 trucks lined up to dump 13,000 cubic yards of concrete. Bosa flew down from Vancouver to watch the project.

Union construction workers also showed up to protest, recalled Bill Scott, a former real estate executive with Catellus, which sold Bosa the Pacific Highway site. One of the protesters pulled a lever on a truck waiting in line, triggering it to dump at least part of its load on the street. The tension between Bosa crews and the protesters neared a boiling point.

“It was really ugly,” recalled Scott. “He basically diffused it by talking face to face with these guys. He got right in there and in a calm but strong, meaningful way, convinced them that it wasn't in their best interest” to disrupt the job.

That incident also served as a stepping-off point for improved relations between Bosa and local unions, Scott said.

“I think he has good relations with the union guys now,” he said. “The highest compliment you can pay to someone in the real estate business is they do what they say they're going go do. That's Nat. He tells you what he's going to do and he does it.”

Bosa also spends little time trying to convince governments to bend their rules for his projects. Pam Hamilton, a vice president with the Centre City Development Corp., said the first time she met Bosa, he asked her what the organization wanted to see built on a particular site.

“I described the requirements and he said fine, that's what I'll do,” she said. “He wants to develop in accordance with the plans that we have in place. If his program can't meet those requirements, he wants to spend his time elsewhere where he can be more productive.”

Recently, some have begun to wonder if Bosa has been too productive in helping to spark downtown's residential boom.

In the next two years alone, developers are adding 17 towers with 2,300 units, according to Gary London of The London Group Realty Advisors, a consulting firm. That has some real estate experts worried that the core is primed for a severe slowdown, particularly as sales slow over fears of higher interest rates.

Bosa appears to be of mixed mind about the state of the downtown housing market. “Even though I'm quite optimistic all the time, I would say that East Village has developed faster and farther out than I would have expected by this time,” he said.

Yet he has no fears for his projects. He thinks that the best locations – those with views or near the ballpark – will always attract buyers.

“The expensive (units) are not the problem,” he said. “The smaller stuff that was supposed to be more affordable, that has gotten too high.”

On the other hand, Bosa believes the urban residential renaissance is just beginning in San Diego, and that any softness in the market will be temporary.

“There's no big bumps in the road. There's not enough product here. Believe me, when you look at what's here, what's under construction here, it's nothing compared to Vancouver. So basically, it's just going through a maturing process.”

any word on the 600 A project. it is the building with the crazy "world trade center" style top. diagonal sliced cube look? it is an office building apparently.
Haven't read or heard any news about that one. It's most likely dead by now.

Some new stuff to add -


Bird's eye view of Park Terrace, ICON and the future Main Library -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Park-Terrace-Larger.jpg


11th & B - Mixed-Use/26 Floors/196 Units
http://www.tcholdings.net/developments/11th.asp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/11th_ave_03_lg.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/11th_ave_01_lg.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/11th_ave_02.jpg


Kettner & Grape - Mixed-Use/15 Floors/243 Units
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Kettner__Grape_FULL_1.jpg


Check out these renderings I found on the Martinez & Cutri website http://www.mc-architects.com/

Has anyone even heard of these projects? Are they still alive?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Marriott_Hotel_FULL_1.jpg
MARRIOTT HOTEL TOWER 3

San Diego, California

The design parti takes its lead from the two existing, curved, mirrored glass towers by adhering to the same palette of materials as well as the same radius of curvature for the new tower. By locating the new tower in front of and between the existing structures, the focus becomes an expanded porte-cochere that functions as the main distribution hub of this convention headquarters’ hotel. In addition, the new tower, which faces Harbor Drive, will now afford a more robust softscape program with a dynamic waterfall, computerized water jets and lights.

Client: Host Marriott
Site Area: 2.3 Acres
Building Area: 353,000 SF; 24 stories
Rooms: 600
Cost: $70 Million
Completion: NA



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Millenium_Hotel_FULL_1.jpg
MILLENIUM TOWER

San Diego, California

The design theme centers on the architectonics of the site’s maritime setting to produce a structure which reflects the image of both a sail and a lighthouse. The curved tower embraces a five story atrium that contains an array of retail shops and restaurants, and overlooks the marina. This voluminous space activates the terminus of the south embarcadero promenade. The signature element of this development is the lighthouse – a circular tower clad in stainless steel and fretted glass. Atop this structure is a bar and lounge with magnificent views of downtown, the Pacific Ocean and the Coronado Islands.

Client: Capital Ventures, Ltd.
Site Area: 10 Acres
Building Area: 1.6 Million SF; 40 stories
Rooms: 1,300
Cost: $300 Million
Completion: NA

Wow, great renderings!

But I really don't know about that 3rd Marriot Tower. I heard that there was a proposal quite a few years ago for this same tower, but the CCDC struck it down. I mean...it's good that it's tall, but I really don't know if it's a good idea to further wall off that part of the bay, and on TOP of that, with too many towers that look alike. The Marriot Marina Towers are Really beautiful and I think, some of the nicest-looking towers in downtown, but i really dont know how good it would look to have a bunch of towers that look the same clustered in one area. But business-wise, the more hotels ESPECIALLY by the Convention center, i guess the more money.

SO what's the word on this Millenium Tower? Where is this suppose to be? It looks really great, though.

By the way, I heard on CCDC that the proposed Horton Plaza Hotel which was approved by CCDC way back in 2002, is about to start back w/ plans and stuff. It's suppose to be a 450 foot tall hotel (and 217 ft. wide) with 461 rooms.

Actually, i think i take that back. I really dont know about the Millenium Tower....it looks like it'll wall off San Diego's "front porch" if built on the Embarcadero.

Actually, i think i take that back. I really dont know about the Millenium Tower....it looks like it'll wall off San Diego's "front porch" if built on the Embarcadero.

I don't like the rendering of the Millenium Tower, but I like everything else.

But I really don't know about that 3rd Marriot Tower. I heard that there was a proposal quite a few years ago for this same tower, but the CCDC struck it down. I mean...it's good that it's tall, but I really don't know if it's a good idea to further wall off that part of the bay, and on TOP of that, with too many towers that look alike.
It think it would be a bad idea to build that 3rd tower. As you said, it would wall off the bay from the rest of downtown. The Marriott is fine how it is.

By the way, I heard on CCDC that the proposed Horton Plaza Hotel which was approved by CCDC way back in 2002, is about to start back w/ plans and stuff. It's suppose to be a 450 foot tall hotel (and 217 ft. wide) with 461 rooms.
That's great news! 450 feet is a good height for that site because it would stand out among the neighbors (Rennaissance and Horizons) and fill a void in the skyline. Also, because it's a hotel, there wouldn't be balconies on it like the surrounding towers.

I don't like the rendering of the Millenium Tower, but I like everything else.
At first, I thought Millenium looked cool but then I realized that it would look awkward in the skyline. I can't imagine seeing that 40 story tower along the bay and not being able to see anything else behind it. I sure hope that project is dead.

i like both the marriott tower and the millenium tower. the marriott tower would lie in between the two towers that already wall off the bay in that location, so it wouldnt further that effect any in my opinion. The waterfall effect would be cool as well.

the millenium tower is ackward looking, but depending on location, would be a nice change of pace.

The Condo Domino

By WILL CARLESS
Voice Staff Writer
Thursday, Feb. 2, 2006

On the corner of India and A streets in Little Italy, there's a small parking lot with a big fancy billboard.

The billboard announces the forthcoming construction of another high-rise condo tower to the streets of downtown San Diego. An artist's impression on the sign depicts "The Elle," a 21-story, 191-condominium project, construction of which is set to begin in March 2005.

Underneath the billboard, there's a less showy sign. It says simply "For Sale."

The fact that Bay Structures LLC., a consortium of developers from Los Angeles, has decided to sell the planned-but-as-yet-un-built project, is the latest in a string of indicators that show the downtown condo market may have hit its high-water mark.

Of the 59 residential projects currently underway in downtown, experts are predicting that many will never crawl off the plans and stand in the already saturated condo market. The Elle is the first development to succumb to the realities of that market, they said, and more are sure to follow.

"It's a little scary, no question," said Joe Werner, COO of Intergulf Development, which has completed a number of condo projects in downtown San Diego. "The speculators who have driven the market to some extent are bailing out."

It was unclear why Bay Structures decided to sell. Calls to the company were not returned.

The partnership has completed 75 percent of the building's plans and has secured all the necessary permits. Tim Winslow, a broker with Grubb & Ellis Business Real Estate, who is selling the property, said the entire project -- including land, designs and permits -- is up for sale.

The sale is completely in line with the company's business plan, Winslow said.

But Werner and others told a different story. Werner said he heard the company had run into difficulty with its financing for the project, and downtown realtors and analysts said that is more likely to be the case. Alan Gin, professor of economics at the University of San Diego's Burnham-Moores Center for Real Estate, said financiers are increasingly wary of lending to condo developers.

"Lenders are starting to see that it's a little bit more risky venture and as a result they may be a little bit more hesitant," Gin said.

The Elle is probably the first condo development to fall prey to wary lenders, a flattening condo market and spiraling construction costs, said Paul Tryon, CEO of the Building Industry Association in San Diego. Nevertheless, he said it's common to see developers selling their projects while still in the planning phases, especially when a market begins to plateau after a period of strong growth.

"Individual developers will make decisions based on economics, on the feasibility of their capital, on profitability, the condition of the market," Tryon said.

"You see an acceleration of that in a market that's going through some corrections or some changes," he added.

Anthony Napoli, a Realtor in Little Italy, guessed that 35 to 40 percent of the 11,000 condo units in the pipeline for downtown San Diego will never be built in the current real estate climate. He said the superheated condo market of the last few years has attracted many people into the condo business who didn't really know what they were doing.

"In the heyday, a monkey could be a developer in downtown," Napoli said. "Now you will only get financing if you can show a real feasibility study."

Russ Valone, president and CEO of MarketPointe Realty Advisors in San Diego, was characteristically upbeat despite the news of the Elle sale. He said the sale could be due to any number of reasons, from increasing construction costs to financing issues, and that it is not necessarily indicative of a weakening condo market.

However, Valone did say that the downtown condo market has become increasingly competitive, and that he can foresee a proportion of the planned condo units never making it off the ground.

That's just a natural part of the market's return to normal, Valone said, and it may prove to be little more than a temporary glitch. As developers find it more difficult to acquire the financing for projects, the existing inventory on the market will be bought up, he said, and soon enough, San Diego will face a "shortage" of condos again.

"That will be just a pothole in the road," Valone said.

For existing condo owners, and Realtors, in downtown that's not a bad thing.

"It would be better for property owners -- people trying to sell their homes or increase their investment portfolio -- if there wasn't a constant dumping of new units on the marketplace," said Jim Abbott a Realtor who lives and works downtown.

But Chris Thornberg, a senior analyst with the University of California, Los Angeles Anderson Forecast, said the important thing for owners, realtors and investors to consider is not the fact that the development has been put up for sale, but how quickly it sells.

"How fast will it get snapped up?" he said. "That's what I would be watching."

^^At least now, you can see in between the 2 Marriott towers. That third tower would totally block everything out. Twin towers are one thing, but to have 3 buildings look similar is too much, imo. I'm with you on the Millenium Tower, it's not bad-looking but I think it might look better along Mission Bay (That's a another can of worms if we're talking about the walling-off effect, especially at 40 stories). Millenium also reminds me of a Cancun hotel.

Interesting article on the "Condo Domino", SDfan. It looks like The Elle may be the first of many projects to be cancelled/postponed. Let's just hope that best ones get built. On the other hand, if the office demand gets as hot as forecasters predict, maybe the next wave of proposals will be mostly of office towers, instead of residential ones. We all know that the designs of office towers are usually more interesting.

is this project dead? its still on ccdc. the architecture firm is collison, also making the horton plaza hotel. this rendering makes it looks nice. i wish it would get built.

http://www.callison.com/images/slideshow/ACF70.jpg

http://www.callison.com/images/slideshow/ACF39.jpg

^^I believe that project has been cancelled and that Bosa purchased the land. I was never a huge fan of that KUSI building because it reminds me of a Vegas Strip hotel. I must say that it's location is ideal.

News from Globest regarding Cosmo Square-


COSMOPOLITAN SQUARE PICKS UP NEARLY $29M IN FINANCING

By Daniel D. Williams
Last updated: February 2, 2006 08:07am


SAN DIEGO-A mixed-use project going up near Petco Park picks up $28.5 million in financing. La Jolla-based private equity lender, Scripps Investments & Loans, has provided financing on Cosmopolitan Square.

The project is a mixed-use residential high-rise project located one block north of the ballpark. It includes 235 condos, 12,485 sf of retail space and restaurants, 17,106 sf of office space and a 450-stall parking garage.

The financing includes a $19-million credit facility to refinance existing debt. Additional funds will be available to complete site development and the entitlement process. Liberty Bankers Life Insurance provided $15 million in senior debt, while Scripps provided $13.5 million in mezz debt, which was secured by a second trust deed on the project. According to Scripps officials, both senior and mezz debt was structured as 12-month loans.

"The location of the project is one of the best available developable blocks in Downtown San Diego,” says Jeffrey E. Lubin, Scripps' president. “Having participated in the acquisition financing for the project, we saw this next round of financing as a good opportunity for our investors."

The Centre City Development Corp. (CCDC) granted design review approval on the subject site for construction of 235 condominiums, 12,485 sf of retail space and restaurants, 17,106 sf of office space, and a 450-stall parking garage.

In other recent Downtown news, the CCDC picked up a 10,000-sf site at the southeast corner of Cedar and Pacific Highway for $2.5 million. The site will be developed for the first of two new Downtown fire stations. The purchase of the parcel that will be known as Bayside Station is part of “a $253-million development impact fee program to improve the public realm Downtown with seven new parks and two new fire stations,” according to an official release by CCDC.

“It is important to match the intensity of new development with an appropriate level of life safety infrastructure,” says Mayor Jerry Sanders. CCDC has plans to acquire another site, at 13th and 14th streets and Broadway, for the second fire station. No timetable has been set for construction to begin on either site. According to CCDC officials, financing on the projects will come from tax increment and development impact fees.

is this project dead? its still on ccdc. the architecture firm is collison, also making the horton plaza hotel. this rendering makes it looks nice. i wish it would get built.

http://www.callison.com/images/slideshow/ACF70.jpg

http://www.callison.com/images/slideshow/ACF39.jpg
WOW I like that tower. :)

^^I believe that project has been cancelled and that Bosa purchased the land. I was never a huge fan of that KUSI building because it reminds me of a Vegas Strip hotel. I must say that it's location is ideal.

Really? I thought the project was still "A okay".

While I didn't really like the architecture I did like the idea of a mixed use (TV studio/hotel/residential/retail) in that area. As I said a million times before "mixed use is the way to go" because it brings to downtown a more vibrant 24/7 environment.

As for Bosa buying the land, I'm mixed. They tend to build purely residential buildings. Has anyone been at the foot of a Bosa development (Park Place, Horizons, Grande)? They seem like ghost towns, "urban suburbs". While they add to the skyline they just don't create an exciting atmosphere on the ground-level. Oh, well. . . .

Well then what do we do? Tear down the marriots? Move the Gaslamp over to build another wing of the center? I know you can't answer that, but....my best bet would be the 10th ave terminal....

Is it really necessary to expand the SDCC while Chula Vista is building its own hotel/convention center on their bayfront? Some SD officials are already bitching about it.

As for Bosa buying the land, I'm mixed. They tend to build purely residential buildings. Has anyone been at the foot of a Bosa development (Park Place, Horizons, Grande)? They seem like ghost towns, "urban suburbs". While they add to the skyline they just don't create an exciting atmosphere on the ground-level. Oh, well. . . .

Someone wrote nearly the same thing on Lew's blog, are you that guy?

There was a recent article in the Metro about this... I dunno if it's necessarily a Bosa problem, but more of one with the CCDC and its intent on mixed-use being a fairly recent development. The Legend is listed as having 30k sqft of ground level retail, which is enormous for a project of that size.

While I didn't really like the architecture I did like the idea of a mixed use (TV studio/hotel/residential/retail) in that area. As I said a million times before "mixed use is the way to go" because it brings to downtown a more vibrant 24/7 environment.
Yeah, that's the worst part of this project being supposedly cancelled. I, too, would have loved to have seen the TV studios down there. That would have been the ultimate mixed-used project in the Marina neighborhood. If we're lucky, KUSI will still try to bring their studios downtown.

As for Bosa buying the land, I'm mixed. They tend to build purely residential buildings. Has anyone been at the foot of a Bosa development (Park Place, Horizons, Grande)? They seem like ghost towns, "urban suburbs". While they add to the skyline they just don't create an exciting atmosphere on the ground-level. Oh, well. . . .
Good point, but as Beau said, CCDC should probably be blamed for the "All" residential projects that have been built in the past. Park Place is the worst of the bunch if you ask me. No retail/office whatsoever. Isn't It's A Grind Coffeeshop part of Horizons or is that Renaissance? The only thing that will save The Grande Towers from being completely dead will be it's proximity to the North Embaradero Redevelopment Project. Fortunately, nearly every residential project U/C now or proposed has some retail or office in it, if not both.

Someone wrote nearly the same thing on Lew's blog, are you that guy?

No that wasn't me. I only post here on SSC. What's Lew's blog?

I recently drove through downtown and checked out some of the development progress and here's what I gathered:

Park Terrace is developing rather fast. They were at about the 5th floor.

ICON is very surprising. I swear I just saw it as a big hole in the ground last Nov. but now the've topped off their 5 story midrises while the tall tower is currently up to 7 stories.

Hard Rock Hotel is still a hole in the ground but seems to be progressing FAST. I see them opening late 2007/early 2008.

Marriott Renaissance is still a parking lot. I doubt they'll be up and running by 2009. :bash:

Gaslamp Square II will be finished this summer for sure.

Alta is at 5 stories. Slow.

The Mark is @ 4-5 stories. I think.

Legend is laying the foundation rather quickly. Fast progress for a BOSA development.

Diamond View Tower is breaking ground.

In little Italy the Elle project does have a "For Sale" sign under it. :sleepy:

There's a big crane @ the MetroWork site.

Regarding the "Condo Domino" article. . .I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm an optimist so I'm thinking most of the projects will be on schedule. If I had to choose which projects were to be built FOR SURE I'd pick Embassy, MetroLive, and 15th/Island (with the park next to it).

cheers :cheers:

No that wasn't me. I only post here on SSC. What's Lew's blog?


You may have seen this site before - http://www.sandiegodowntown.info/

That's Lew Breeze's site, he just created a blog where he discusses downtown real estate statistics - http://92101.blogspot.com/

Some great conversations going on over there.

Icon has sprung quickly, huh? I've been watching it like a hawk as I have a place at Fahrenheit.

Opposition grows to Navy's Broadway development plan

By Martin Stolz
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
February 5, 2006

The Navy's plans to build San Diego's largest-ever complex of buildings on the harbor at Broadway – and the secrecy surrounding those plans – face new opposition from a coalition of architects, planners and community groups.

A group of 20 people, who are members of more than a dozen organizations, met last week to organize a public challenge to the Navy's goal of building up to 3.25 million square feet of high-rise offices, hotels and shops on 14.7 acres of waterfront land.

Those at the meeting questioned the wisdom of the plan and called on the Navy to re-examine its assumptions, which were made in 1992. They invited the Navy, instead, to help create a waterfront park or lower-scale project and swap its site at Broadway and North Harbor Drive for a higher-security location nearby.

The Navy Broadway Complex was spared from a round of military base closures last year under a deal with the Base Realignment and Closure Commission. The commission said the complex should be shuttered if a redevelopment deal isn't reached by Jan. 1.

Developers vying to win the contract must first clean up the site polluted from years of Navy use, and spend $98 million to $180 million to build new naval administrative offices, depending on the size of the buildings.

In return, developers could build hotels, offices, shops and a museum or another public attraction in towers on the rest of the site, leaving about 2 acres of open space.

The Navy is reviewing bids submitted by a Jan. 4 deadline and has not released information about the bidders.

Peter Q. Davis, a former San Diego Unified Port District commissioner and board member of the Centre City Development Corp., which advises the City Council on downtown redevelopment, says he hopes to persuade the Navy to “simply walk away from the property,” he said in a telephone interview yesterday. Davis spent a decade working with the Navy on earlier versions of the project.

Max Schmidt, the former chief planner and architect for CCDC, called the site the region's most important available land and the best location “for the city to do something great.”

“The proposal is very ordinary – offices, retail, hotels,” he said. “The bottom line is all these uses can go elsewhere, including the Navy offices.”

The group, which is still unnamed, laid out a campaign for rallying the public and lobbying members of Congress and local officials. The group is also seeking to partner with other organizations.

The group proposes creating a joint powers authority between CCDC and the port, which – unlike the city of San Diego – have the resources to issue bonds for public projects.

Several at the meeting advocated relocating the Navy's downtown offices from Broadway to a waterfront building at 32nd Street, a secure Navy site with room for growth.

Mike Stepner, who worked for 27 years as a city planner, helped write the 1992 development agreement between the city and the Navy. At the time, downtown San Diego's redevelopment prospects were uncertain.

“When the facts change, I change my mind, and the facts have changed,” he said. “It is public land, and public land belongs to the people.”

Much anger at Thursday night's meeting focused on the secrecy of Navy officials.

A Navy spokesman said last month he was not permitted by Navy regulations to release the number of bids received by the Jan. 4 deadline or reveal the states where the development companies are based.

Navy officials could not find such regulations Friday, but the regulations exist, said Kevin Dixon, a spokesman for Navy Region Southwest.

Tom Anglewicz, an architect and board member of the San Diego Downtown Partnership, said “the selection process is secretive, and the selection is strictly in the hands of the Navy, which is scary” because of the Navy's inexperience with development.

“To go forward with a 1992 plan – without any relook or any re-evaluation of those assumptions, to any reasonable person – would seem goofy,” Anglewicz said.

Anglewicz called himself a “pragmatist” because changing the Navy's mind would be difficult and many in development circles would prefer to avoid a public debate.

Nancy Graham, CCDC president, cautioned against “overreacting.” She expressed concern that the Broadway site could face a worse future if it returns to the Base Realignment and Closure Commission.

But Diane Coombs, a member of Citizen Coordinate for Century 3, a group formed in 1961 to monitor and influence growth, questioned those fears: “If it went to BRAC, could the ultimate use be any worse than what's proposed?”

The land is “absolutely the most important site in San Diego,” Davis said, so “a public debate has to happen, regardless of the Navy's right to develop,” and before the Navy selects a development team.

The Navy plans to begin negotiations by March 31 with a development team for a 75-year land lease.

After a development team is selected, CCDC staff will begin a limited review of the proposal for consistency with development and urban design guidelines contained in the 1992 agreement.

Through CCDC meetings, the public will have “more opportunity for review and more chance for oversight than is usually the case” with federal projects, Graham said.

U.S. Rep. Susan Davis, D-San Diego, who represents downtown, has met with the project's opponents, the Navy and others “to maintain a dialogue,” said Aaron Hunter, her spokesman.

Howard Blackson, a San Diego urban planner, recently returned from discussions about rebuilding Mississippi's hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast. A waterfront park in downtown San Diego would serve as “a safety valve when we have an earthquake,” he said.

Christine Gaunt, of the Harborfront Community Coalition, said San Diego has “one chance to get it right, and this is our chance.”

Thanks for the projects update, mongozx. Did you happen to check out how Electra is coming along? As you and Beau said, the steel beams of ICON seemed to appear overnight. Why can't other project's move that fast?

I just read that article about the Broadway development in the paper and my only question is why the Navy is being so secretive about it? I'm wondering if they have the final say in the whole thing. As someone in the article said, it can't be anything worse than what's there now, but it would be nice if the Navy worked with the city to make the best use out of the space for everyone. I say give us the renderings NOW!

People will find a way to be opposed to everything. They want a freakin PARK at that location. Give me a break. How many damn parks does a center city need. THe Navy should do one thing and one thing only. Tell these people to eat a fat one, and then develop whatever they want to develop as long as it complies with the community plan. Their idea sounds good to me, and i hope they do it.

People were opposed to Petco for God's sake, and look how that turned out. It is rather annoying.

Some of the updates above were a bit inaccurate, but only because it's hard to tell how far along a lot of these projects are while driving. But looking at CCDC's webcams, here's a Construction update for some of the Downtown Projects:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/59fbca6e.jpg Vantage Point- If I didnt know any better, I'd say construction is moving backwards...But I know that the reason it looks like there's more dirt on the site than a week or two ago is they're making underground parking ramps.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/9a5fcc53.jpg The Mark-they're working on the 9th or 10th floor right now, and construction is moving along okay. looks to be a nice tower.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/84c93542.jpg Smart Corner- Construction up to the 3rd Floor, and moving kind of slow.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/57e2ce66.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/2b76a2f8.jpg Park Terrace- construction is moving along FAST. They're already up to the 12th floor in the taller tower and already topped out the smaller one. This project looks real good.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/9874d3c3.jpg Market Street Village- Looks like the 5th or 6th floor, but movin along pretty well.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/05f46fbc.jpg Lillian Place- Low-Rise, affordable housing project that's rarely mentioned, but is moving along slowly but surely in construction.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/fbba03b7.jpg The Legend-Back up to street level, and judging by how fast the underground parking went, the tower should be complete on time by 2007.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/d82d3b7f.jpg Icon-13th floor. MOvin Real Fast, and the main tower should be topped out in a couple of months, at the rate it's goin now.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/4bba8a96.jpg Hard Rock Hotel- As earlier said, construction is almost street level and is moving along pretty well.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/7c876d57.jpg Fahrenheit- IMO, Ugly as hell and I hate this building with a passion, but construction-wise, it's pretty much finished i think.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/c240b5c6.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/1197159c.jpg Element- All main construction is done, they're just painting it now, and doing exterior work. This went up fast.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/e8f6d61e.jpg Electra-PAINFULLY SLOW...what, about the 3rd floor? I dont even think they're done w/ the garage yet...


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/98031ef2.jpg Cortez Blu- Looks like they're just working on some of the exterior paint job, and it looks pretty good.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/e9e38c73.jpg Aria-Progress is going Real fast, In my opinion, especially compared to other projects such as Vantage Point. They're still digging, and down to about the 4th or 5th level below ground.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Alta.jpg
Alta-up to about the 6th or 7th floor, and was moving real slow, but now it's pretty much back on track and added floors every week.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/2b3b4a5c.jpg DiamondView Tower- Almost up to street level, and it's supposedly going to be finished Fall 2006. If the construction goes as fast as Icon, then yea, it should be topped out by summer.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/12d4ff23.jpg Nexus- Construction is up to the 6th floor. This is a much smaller building than they make it look in the renderings.


That's about it, and right now im gonna TRY to submit some pics of these buildings, but I dont know for sure if it will work or not cuz it's my 1st time, so sorry if somethin weird happens...

What's the tallest building that's been approved or under construction? :?

IMO, Ugly as hell and I hate this building with a passion, but construction-wise, it's pretty much finished i think.


Finally, a person who doesn't only not like this building, but is passionate about it :). I always thought it was too weird to not be polarizing. You're right, it's pretty much done and move-ins will start in a week or two.

What's the tallest building that's been approved or under construction? :?

That would be Elektra I believe. . .

BTW, excellent updates Bushmann! Thanks for the pics too.

Thanks for the updates and snapshots, Bushman! It's cool to see so much activity going on downtown. We'll be seeing even more holes in the ground soon with Sapphire, Cosmo & Library, among others, getting ready to break ground.

What's the tallest building that's been approved or under construction? :?
Electra is the tallest under construction now at 475 feet. Both Library Tower and Cosmopolitan Square should break ground soon with heights of 480 feet and 478 feet, respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman61988
IMO, Ugly as hell and I hate this building with a passion, but construction-wise, it's pretty much finished i think.


Finally, a person who doesn't only not like this building, but is passionate about it . I always thought it was too weird to not be polarizing. You're right, it's pretty much done and move-ins will start in a week or two.
Aww, it's not that bad. I'd much rather look at Fahrenheit instead of a multi-story parking garage. ;)

Interesting how development is moving. I'm glad that most of these projects are moving forward at a good pace, and that they will be in our skyline for sure. Im thankful for what we have now, but increasingly worried about future projects. I don't see many getting to far, I think Cosmo will be one of the last to go up for a while. Right now were in an flat line, in time we will get out of it, but for now, I believe more Elle's will be on the way...

Thats my lower then expectations view. I have a better one, but I need to formulate it. :)

^^Don't give up on the boom just yet, SDfan. There are quite a few more projects that I think will go up before things really slow down. It's probably a good thing that the condo craze is easing up a bit, because it will lessen the chance of downtown becoming a giant residential suburb. Our next step is to wait for the office demand to pick up. :)

Excusing ourselves from downtown chatter a bit, check out these renderings I found on the Port of San Diego website regarding the Chula Vista Bayfront Masterplan. Looks pretty cool!!
http://www.portofsandiego.org/projects/cvbmp/

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/harbor-district-after.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/cv-marina-after.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/marina-parkway-after.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/sweetwater-after.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/harbor-district-res.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/otay-district-res.jpg

Aww, it's not that bad. I'd much rather look at Fahrenheit instead of a multi-story parking garage. ;)

Heh, heh. Don't get me wrong I love it, but then again I like weird ultra-modern stuff. It's gotten alot of flack over being butted against the parking garage, but this is the first knock I've seen/heard against the architecture so far, yet it's far from conventionally pretty.

^^Don't give up on the boom just yet, SDfan. There are quite a few more projects that I think will go up before things really slow down. It's probably a good thing that the condo craze is easing up a bit, because it will lessen the chance of downtown becoming a giant residential suburb. Our next step is to wait for the office demand to pick up. :)

IMO most of the better projects will go up, but what's in the pipeline will be pretty much it for the rest of the decade. The developers need to compete with resales and construction costs are just too much... if resales ebb down another 10-15% I say game over for awhile.

Excusing ourselves from downtown chatter a bit, check out these renderings I found on the Port of San Diego website regarding the Chula Vista Bayfront Masterplan. Looks pretty cool!!


Wow, didn't realize it was going to be so extensive. Looks really nice. Is this project/financing in any way coupled to North Embarcadero? Any idea of timeline?

I bet Chula Vista doesn't have FAA imposed height restrictions.....hehe!
:dance:

Wow, didn't realize it was going to be so extensive. Looks really nice. Is this project/financing in any way coupled to North Embarcadero? Any idea of timeline?
Yeah, I was surprised to see the highrises in the background. I don't know any details of the masterplan, except from what I read in the Port of San Diego website. It doesn't really give any timeframes or anything. Maybe they'll add the Chargers new stadium in the mix?!?

Chula Vista is definitely beginning to stand out as SD's county's "Pasadena". The waterfront would be great if all that came to pass. Pro-sprawl or not, one must recognize east chula vista as a very nice set of neighborhoods. There is going to be a second business district out by otay lakes area near the olympic center. And with the revitalization of west chula and the old town area, it is really transforming into quite a city. I am very proud of that as a one time chula resident.

^^Don't forget about Otay Ranch Town Center, which is under construction now. In case you missed it, here's an article from yesterday's Union-Tribune -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/otay1new.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/Otay2new.jpg

THE 'LIFESTYLE' MALL

Kid-friendly, dog-friendly Otay Ranch Town Center will have restaurants and 100 stores, but no multiple anchors

By David Washburn
STAFF WRITER

February 5, 2006

When workers were putting the finishing touches on Escondido's North County Fair mall 20 years ago, the rolling hills of eastern Chula Vista – home to a few tract houses and a lot of cows – would have seemed an unlikely spot for San Diego County's next major shopping center.

But thousands of new homes, dozens of schools and a highway later, that's exactly where the county's first “lifestyle” center is being built.

Otay Ranch Town Center will open in October on 85 acres off Olympic Parkway in what has become the biggest boomtown in San Diego County. The mall's lifestyle retail concept will attempt to combine some aspects of a regional mall with an old-fashioned town square.

Otay Ranch will open with 80 mostly upscale specialty stores; a Macy's department store; and several restaurants, including P.F. Chang's China Bistro and The Cheesecake Factory. A second phase, opening 18 months later, will include an additional 20 specialty stores and possibly another upper-end department store.

Conspicuously lacking: the three or more “anchor” department stores typically found at traditional regional shopping centers.

Selected list of stores, restaurants and entertainment at Otay Ranch Town Center:

Ann Taylor/Ann Taylor Loft – Women's clothing

Anthropologie – Women's appareland home decor

AMC movie theater – 12 screens

Aveda Salon – Hair and skin-care products

Barnes & Noble – Bookstore and coffeehouse that also sells music and DVDs

Bath & Body Works – Personal care products

Build-A-Bear Workshop – Interactive toy store

Cheesecake Factory – Upscale casual restaurant

Coach – Handbags and accessories

Coldwater Creek – Women's casual clothing

Eddie Bauer – Outdoor-inspiredclothing and furniture

Geppetto's Toy Store – Specialty toy store

Macy's – Department store

Nestle Tollhouse Cafe – Baked goods and coffee

P.F. Chang's China Bistro – Contemporary Chinese cuisine

REI – Co-op and retailer of outdoor gear and clothing

Swoozies – Upscale party store

Victoria's Secret – Lingerie andpersonal care products

“We are not referring to it as a mall,” said Terri Powers, a vice president of leasing for Chicago-based General Growth Properties, the center's developer. “It has characteristics of a mall in that it has a department store, (but) it has the feel of a downtown or town center project.”

Regardless of what it's called, Otay Ranch Town Center will be the county's biggest retail development since North County Fair and Horton Plaza were built in the 1980s, and another example of Chula Vista's economic growth in recent years.

Nashville-based Gaylord Entertainment plans to build a 1,500-room hotel and 400,000- square-foot convention complex on the city's bayfront. And a new four-lane toll road that traverses southeastern Chula Vista is scheduled to open early next year.

These projects are in addition to the 14 strip centers and 16,500 houses built since 2000 in the city, which is now home to more than 220,000.

“The community has really been asking for this,” said Gustavo Perez, one of the city's economic development specialists. “Our residents want to live, work and shop in Chula Vista.”

General Growth, the nation's second-largest shopping center developer, also owns the Chula Vista Center mall on Broadway and H Street. The Otay Ranch center will be the company's first lifestyle center in California.

The lifestyle concept first emerged in the late 1980s, but it has really taken off in recent years. Since 2000, developers have built 84 lifestyle centers in the United States – nearly four times the number of regional malls built during the same period.

“Almost every decade has its development of choice,” said Patrice Duker, spokeswoman for the International Council of Shopping Centers. “This decade it's the lifestyle center.”

A typical lifestyle center is located near affluent residential neighborhoods and has a high proportion of upscale chain specialty stores, according to the New York-based council. The lifestyle centers are almost always open-air and usually contain between 150,000 and 500,000 square feet of leasable space – less than most regional malls.

Developers of lifestyle centers bill the centers as community gathering spots, and they aim for the centers to mirror the character of surrounding neighborhoods.

The Otay Ranch center's immediate area is diverse – about one-third Latino – and has a high concentration of young families living in master-planned communities. The median income is above $80,000, and the typical household has more than three people, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.

The center will cater to the families with a pet-friendly theme that includes a 10,000-square-foot “doggie park.”

“Dog parks have very much become a social venue in San Diego County,” Powers noted.

Though it will have a decidedly high-end look – tiles, arches, trellises and fancy signs – the center will be kid-friendly. Children will be able to play in popper fountains and draw in a chalk garden while Mom takes a shopping break. And birthday party rental space will be available, Powers said.

Also setting the center apart from the standard mall will be a “Main Street” configuration that allows for cars to drive past or park in front of many stores.

“Consumers like this format,” Duker said. “It tends to become a destination-oriented trip for people.”

Instead of using department stores to “anchor” the opposite ends of the mall, lifestyle centers tend to use restaurant clusters, movie theaters and, in some cases, big-box retailers.

Otay Ranch Town Center was originally planned to have both a Macy's and a Robinsons-May store, but Federated Department Stores, which owns Macy's, bought Robinsons-May last year and does not want both stores in the same center.

General Growth hopes to attract another upscale, Nordstrom-like department store to Otay Ranch, but Powers said the center will be fine for its first couple years without another department store.

“We have a dynamic collection of specialty stores, and our restaurant selection is of such depth that we consider it a major draw,” she said.

A lifestyle center usually attracts customers from a 10-square-mile area. That is similar to the draw of a regional mall like National City's Plaza Bonita but smaller than a “super-regional” mall like Fashion Valley, Duker said.

Although most Otay Ranch shoppers are expected to come from Chula Vista and its South Bay neighbors, officials from both the city and General Growth say it has the potential to draw from a larger area than the standard lifestyle center.

It will have 860,000 square feet of leasable space, which makes it bigger than most of its kind, but more importantly, the center is a short drive from the Mexican border. The drive will get shorter after the opening of state Route 125, which will run from Otay Mesa to Highway 54. An estimated 70,000 people cross the border each day, and 63 percent of them come to shop, according to the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce.

“One thing everyone looks at when you get down to that part of the county is how much business you will get from Mexico,” said George Whalin, president of Retail Management Consultants in San Marcos. “That is a very important part of the equation.”

The chamber estimates that cross-border buyers account for as much as 8 percent, or $3.3 billion, of all annual retail transactions in San Diego County. General Growth officials hope to lure Mexican consumers from Horton Plaza, Fashion Valley and Las Americas, the outlet center near the border.

“It is a different shopping center than the Mexican national may have experienced,” said Paula Emanuele, a marketing vice president for General Growth. “(They) will find shopping and dining experiences that they won't find in any other venue in the area.”

Tijuana resident Mariana Felix is one of the cross-border buyers General Growth is targeting. She comes north every month to shop at Las Americas, Chula Vista Center and Plaza Bonita.

“A new mall? Yes, I would like that very much,” Felix said recently while shopping at Las Americas.

If the competition is worried, it isn't showing it. None of the major shopping center owners in the county has plans to alter its marketing.

“The southern part of the county is growing exponentially,” said Katy Dickey, a spokeswoman for Westfield Group, which owns most of the malls in San Diego County, including Horton Plaza and Plaza Bonita.

“With that kind of growth, strong markets attract more investment to serve them,” she said. “That being said, our centers are all good performers and serve their communities well.”

Officials from Fashion Valley, the most-visited mall in the county, said much the same.

“We will not change our marketing strategy,” said Masa Liles, marketing director for Fashion Valley Mall. “Our leasing efforts are all toward high-end, upscale stores, and our strategy will continue as it always has.”

Chula Vista officials say they are ecstatic whether or not Otay Ranch Town Center becomes a big regional draw. The mall will bring in at least $5 million annually in additional sales tax revenue, which would be about 25 percent of the city's total sales tax revenues.

While the city has lots of houses, its relative lack of restaurants and retail has put it among the county's laggards in per capita sales tax revenue. The $97 per capita Chula Vista generated in 2004 was less than half that of El Cajon and National City.

“We are looking forward to keeping some of the sales tax revenue,” said Chula Vista City Manager Dave Rowlands.

Switching back to downtown news, the Children's Museum is back on track! This should bring some much needed street life to the Marina District. :)



Article from today's U-T -


CHILDREN'S MUSEUM BACK IN PLAY AFTER KEY DONATIONS

Work on new home expected to resume

By Martin Stolz
STAFF WRITER

February 6, 2006

The homeless San Diego Children's Museum is finally ready to restart the long-stalled construction of its building.

The museum's foundation recently received $7.5 million from three donors, including $5 million from philanthropists Joan and Irwin Jacobs and a total of $2.5 from two anonymous donors. It has also secured bank loans for $7 million.

“This is a go, and it's off to the races,” said Jason Hughes, the president of the museum's board.

Construction on the $22 million project could resume as early as next month, Hughes said.

The museum has credit lines of up to $15 million through Torrey Pines Bank and First National Bank, Hughes said. But the cash infusions reduce the amount the foundation expects to borrow $7 million, he said.

To guarantee the loans, the banks wanted the foundation to have $5 million in pledges, Hughes said. The banks also would hold as collateral the future site.

In 1993, the Children's Museum moved from a La Jolla strip mall to a downtown warehouse at West Island Avenue and Front Street. Attendance soared to 125,000 visitors each year.

The museum later entered into a complex land swap and purchase deal with the developer of a 182-unit condominium tower at the West Island Avenue site.

The Centre City Development Corp., the city of San Diego's downtown redevelopment arm, negotiated the deal and inserted a clause allowing the city to make a $10 forfeiture payment in exchange for the museum's land and its $7.5 million investment in the downtown site.

The forfeiture clause thwarted fundraising, and construction halted after the building's foundation, basement and the 70-space underground parking garage were built.

The museum closed in 2002 and began operating as a “museum without walls,” with traveling exhibits at street festivals and schools.

Construction is expected to last 18 months. Hughes hopes to retire all debt before the museum opens late next year, he said.

The Children's Museum strives to enrich children's lives through the arts and play. The building is designed to be a 50,000-square-foot indoor playground with a three-story atrium, acrobatic swings and plenty of whimsical touches.




Pics from the architect's website http://www.robquigley.com/index.html

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2003.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2002.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2001.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2004.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2006.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/childrens20museum2007.jpg

San Diego Children's Museum

Total Square Footage: 50,000
Key Staff Involved: Rob Quigley, Katy Hamilton, Bob Dickens
Services Provided: Programming, Design through Construction, Green Building


The San Diego Children's Museum will be a two-story tilt-up concrete building. The Museum is a series of open, flexible spaces visible from, and interacting with, three streets. The primary orientation entrance is to the south- embracing the Children's Park. Like the art-oriented children's activities within, the architecture seeks to engage and educate the users.

The new building will include 13,000 square feet of galleries, a public lobby, retail store, a cafe with exterior decks, activity areas, and a 25,000-square-foot multipurpose performance space. The Museum also houses a 6,000-square-foot Charter School for grades 3, 4, 5, and 6 and administration space for the Museum staff.

I bet Chula Vista doesn't have FAA imposed height restrictions.....hehe!
:dance:

Believe me...Chula Vista WILL have height restrictions on their bayfront. Looking at the Espanada project w/ twin 200 foot towers, and how the local nimby's destroyed the plan...they aren't going to welcome 500 foot + towers.
But the plan does look real cool.


Not to be pessimistic towards the Children's Museum Project, cuz it is a Great project and much needed...but does anyone else find the architecture...weird....Ugly weird??.....

^^No, I think its fine for the most part.

As for Chula Vista, good for them. But Im not giving my hopes up, and I don't see it happening like those renderings suggest.

Not to be pessimistic towards the Children's Museum Project, cuz it is a Great project and much needed...but does anyone else find the architecture...weird....Ugly weird??.....

I am with you, I dislike the design. Hopefully the final result will be so much better.

Also, Chula Vista presents itself as quite a promise. I hope they can achieve their plans.

As for Chula Vista, good for them. But Im not giving my hopes up, and I don't see it happening like those renderings suggest.

Oh yea, the renderings i can almost guarantee wont happen...the chula vista government and development jus doesn't have enough balls, plus the NImby's over there would whine and whine until most if not all of those high rise projects that "block views" or "make traffic" or whatever stupid reason they can come up w/ will be killed off.

By the way, I heard on the CCDC website that Two America Plaza is back on track and in the planning process. Looks like the office market might finally be coming back as it seems like the Residential boom is slowing...

Not to be pessimistic towards the Children's Museum Project, cuz it is a Great project and much needed...but does anyone else find the architecture...weird....Ugly weird??.....
It's sort of out there, but we should be glad that it won't look like anything else downtown. The location is great and it's suppose to be built of mostly glass, which will be cool. I'm sure the renderings don't do justice for what it will really look like.

By the way, I heard on the CCDC website that Two America Plaza is back on track and in the planning process.
Cool! I really like that building.


Regarding the CV Masterplan, even if they don't build those tall buildings, it would be cool to see a transformation of their bayfront into something more pedestrian-oriented.

You all want more good news????? Rumors of the Horton Plaza hotel project coming back to life are true. A 5-Star Regent brand hotel is in the works http://www.regenthotels.com/home.jsp, and will be part of a $200 Million renovation of the mall. At 38 floors, it should make an impact on both the skyline and street-level activity. If there's suppose to be a slowdown coming, it's not apparent yet. :)



Article from today's San Diego Business Journal -


Posted date: 2/6/2006

POSH HORTON HOTEL SHOOTS FOR THE STARS

Lots of Room for a Downtown Luxury Property, Some Say

By CONNIE LEWIS
San Diego Business Journal Staff

The owner of a San Diego-based firm that plans to build a hotel touted as the first step in the upgrade and renovation of Westfield Horton Plaza says it will be Downtown’s first “true” luxury lodging facility.

Michael Gallegos, the president and chief executive officer of La Jolla-based American Property Management, which owns and operates some 43 hotels nationwide, confirmed his company plans to spend $120 million to build a 350-room, 38-story property that will carry the Regent International Hotels brand. That tab includes only the price of building the hotel. The land would be leased from Horton Plaza.

Minneapolis-based Regent, which has eight hotels, includes one in Beverly Hills and the remainder abroad. At least six are under development in the United States and abroad. The company is owned by Carlson Hospitality Worldwide of Minneapolis.

“It will be the most extraordinary hotel Downtown San Diego has ever seen,” Gallegos said.

Aiming for the Mobil 5-Star rating, arguably the highest and most stringent in the lodging industry, Gallegos said the hotel’s 550-square-foot guest rooms that will go for about $350 a night on average.

The guest room’s ceilings will be about 10 feet in height and they will have bathrooms with “his and hers” sinks, as well as separate shower stalls and tubs.

Other amenities will include 40,000 square feet of conference space, which encompasses a 25,000-square-foot ballroom, breakout meeting rooms and executive boardrooms.

Also on the drawing board are plans for a 30,000-square-foot spa, a pool, fitness center, two restaurants, a bar in the hotel lobby and a separate nightclub, Gallegos said.

Aside from amenities, however, one of the most important aspects of 5-Star hotels is a high standard of service, which Gallegos said the Downtown Regent would meet. That includes having attendants to escort guests to their rooms and common areas, as well as 24-hour valet, dry cleaning and room service.

The gross footage of the hotel on the north side of G Street between Second and Third avenues directly adjacent to Horton Plaza is 400,000 square feet. Plans call for a portion of the property containing the meeting space to stretch over the Horton Plaza parking garage.

While the street-level area for the hotel contains 10,700 square feet, another 2,100 square feet of space is gained when the hotel tower expands over the width afforded by building atop of the parking garage.

“We are going to have the finest furniture and carpeting,” Gallegos said. “There will be lots of rich woods, similar to a high-end yachts, as well as marble and granite, but the style will be very contemporary and very high tech.”

Filling A Luxurious Niche

Bob Rauch, president of the San Diego County Hotel-Motel Association and co-owner of the Homewood Suites by Hilton San Diego/Del Mar, said that if the Regent comes to fruition as planned it would indeed be Downtown’s first 5-Star hotel.

“Clearly there is no true luxury product in Downtown,” Rauch said. “The top of the line now is the Manchester Grand Hyatt and the coolest luxury hotel is probably the W.

“For years, developers have looked at putting a Ritz Carlton up in Harbor Island, and I believe a number of developers have thought about a 5-Star either in the Gaslamp Quarter or in Downtown, but it hasn’t happened.

“So I do believe there is room for one super luxurious hotel in downtown San Diego. And I think that $350 a night is achievable.”

Rauch said that the planned Regent could cater to “very high-end leisure travelers, the convention speaker who’s coming with a delegation of people staying at the Marriott Hotel & Marina or the Manchester Grand Hyatt and heads of corporations flying into San Diego to do business.”

Reint Reinders, president and chief executive officer of the San Diego Convention & Visitors Bureau, agrees.

“I think there will be a market for a 5-Star because San Diego is coming into its own like San Francisco and Boston that have quality downtown environments,” Reinders said.

“It’s all a matter of timing, but the Manchester Hyatt and the W San Diego are getting $300 a night for some rooms now, so charging $350 a night does not sound like such a premium by comparison.”

Two Struck Out

Gallegos said his company is at least the third to attempt the project since its inception in 2002. Most recently, there were plans on the table to brand the hotel as an InterContinental.

“The project has been entitled by CCDC (Centre City Development Corp.), and we are keeping the shell of the InterContinental and then reconfiguring the interior of the hotel,” Gallegos said.

Pending approval by the San Diego City Council, which acts as Downtown’s redevelopment agency and takes recommendations from CCDC, construction could begin as early as August and would take about 18 months to complete, Gallegos added.

“We are in the final stages of selecting our lender,” he said. “We have several who have committed to this project and we are now getting their best and final answers.”

Gordon Carrier, a design principal with San Diego-based Carrier Johnson Architects, who is the architect of record for the project, said in addition to City Hall, the Westfield Group, which owns Horton Plaza, must give its approval for the Regent, and that talks are under way.

“The Regent hotel brings an iconic, vertical symbol, as it would be directly attached to Horton Plaza and it would directly compliment what will happen there, so having Westfield engaged is critical,” Carrier said. “This is a very positive opportunity to sort of re-enliven Horton Plaza in many ways, so it’s exciting and Westfield is excited about doing so.”

According to published reports, Westfield plans a major renovation of the 20-year-old shopping center that served as the catalyst for Downtown’s redevelopment. According to some sources, the tab could be as much as $200 million. But calls to the company’s Los Angeles offices were not returned.

American Property Management’s hotels include the Radisson Harbor View in Little Italy, the Holiday Inn Mission Bay SeaWorld and the Hotel La Jolla.

Very Interesting and Very Exciting! I'm shocked that this project didn't die, let alone be as big as Downtown's first 5 star hotel. And at 450 feet, as someone earlier said, it would be a great addition to the skyline in an area that could use high rises to add more depth. I'm shocked at the amenities it would include such as a huge pool and 40,000 foot conference center? that sounds crazy for that small surface parking lot in the Horton Plaza Block! But it says in that article that the building will actually go OVER the parking garage, so it's more believable. I hope that new renderings come soon, and hopefully this hotel will look better than CCDC's renderings of a tall, but VERY plain, wide tower...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/hotel_intercontinental.jpg

why is Electra taking so long???????

Believe me...Chula Vista WILL have height restrictions on their bayfront. Looking at the Espanada project w/ twin 200 foot towers, and how the local nimby's destroyed the plan...they aren't going to welcome 500 foot + towers.
But the plan does look real cool.


Not to be pessimistic towards the Children's Museum Project, cuz it is a Great project and much needed...but does anyone else find the architecture...weird....Ugly weird??.....


Yeah, I know that you're right....but I was just looking for an excuse to use the "smiley's at the club".

Pro-sprawl or not, one must recognize east chula vista as a very nice set of neighborhoods. There is going to be a second business district out by otay lakes area near the olympic center.Why in a San Diego Development Thread does the Eastlake development keep coming up? I seem to remember it being referred to as "classy" a while back. I'm sure it may seem nice today, but Mission Viejo was nice twenty years ago, and look at it now. Ground-up suburbs don't age well and I see no indication that Eastlake is different or special in any way. Let's call a spade a spade - Otay Ranch Town Center is a mall in the worst sense of the word. It may be dressed up as something it isn't, but it's being built for cars and no amount of fakey brick paneling and stone pavers will change that. It takes more than a fresh coat of paint and a new layer of asphalt for a neighborhood to be classy IMO.

The development in East Chula Vista is nothing short of tragic. In the not-so-distant future, Eastlake will decay as the wealth that created it moves on, and instead of the beautiful open space we had ten years ago, we'll be left with a typical second-tier suburban slum.

And with the revitalization of west chula and the old town area, it is really transforming into quite a city. I am very proud of that as a one time chula resident.Revitalization in the western half of the city is commendable and if done well could be something to be proud of. So far though, the development downtown has been pretty piecemeal and it remains to be seen if CV can pull off something big on the waterfront. By putting so many eggs in the Eastlake "basket", the City of Chula Vista has really hurt itself and to date is just one more missed opportunity for Southern California. Hopefully we'll see a turnaround and things will get better for CV. Sorry supertall.

Maybe they'll add the Chargers new stadium in the mix?!?Don't get me started with this again - honestly, is Chula Vista really the best place for a new football stadium? And if the proposal for a new stadium at the 10th Ave Terminal in SD is a bad idea, what makes CV's waterfront so much better?

Speaking of missed opportunities, I saw the Full Focus show last night discussing the airport site selection process. One of our local congressman (can't remember his name) seems to be pushing for an Imperial County site coupled with a maglev train to San Diego. This has got to be one of the silliest ideas that I have ever heard. We all know how this will turn out - the airport gets built, but oh no there's no money for a train (not that anyone would ride it anyway), and you'll have millions of new 200 mile auto trips created up and over the Laguna Mountains on I-8. I guess we'll have to widen that freeway too. And San Diego still won't have an airport, but at least El Centro will.

As ludicrous as this proposal is, the panel (which included two senior Naval Commanders BTW) nodded in agreement and seemed to say, "sounds good to me - problem solved".

Between the airport and the North Embarcadero, the Navy is clearly demonstrating its chokehold on San Diego's development potential. So basically the vision for San Diego is that the Navy / US Gov't and the old money can stay here, but everyone else should move to the desert.

On a lighter note, I noticed on the CCAC Agenda a new condo project at 16th & Market - looks to be 125 feet tall.

Two America Plaza is back on track and in the planning process. Looks like the office market might finally be coming back I always thought this was a condo tower - has something changed?


Finally, Mondrian is going back to the City Council this month and I should be able to release new renderings by March 1.

No worries Sbaumberger. I am curious however how you envision dealing the need for housing. What i mean is, if you had it your way, what would be your ideal solution to housing the millions of people that we have. Is it to always build vertically? and then leave open space open? It just seems as if you hate sprawl to the extent that even the nicest development is crap because it will decay and look like el cajon. You may be right, but again what is your ideal alternative? I must admit that having massive towers in very compact locations seems cool, with the area between these centers open and natural, but i think that would make for a horrible place to raise children and would limit your feeling of an open and spacious home.

Eastlake wasn't directly brought up, but i was just uptalking chula vista in general as a result of the cool waterfront devlopment renderings. It is becoming a nice midsized city in my opinion. Eastlake and those developments add to it in my opinion.

having massive towers in very compact locations seems cool, with the area between these centers open and natural, but i think that would make for a horrible place to raise children and would limit your feeling of an open and spacious home.This is a fairly typical argument against density - compare the two extremes of development patterns and raise negative stereotypes about high-rises. I don't think anyone here is proposing Asian-style massive towers.

My ideal solution to the housing shortage would involve massive amounts of infill development. There is an incredible amount of under-utilized land all throughout San Diego that could be redeveloped. This infill would not look like Manhattan (or Hong Kong, or Corbu's Radial City for that matter), but would include all levels of development intensity ranging from single family homes on up to high rises. Build a decent public transportation network and locate the highest densities near stations and nodes in the system. High-rises are expensive to build so they should be done with care and they should be spaced and oriented in such a way as to maximixe light and air for all residents. Decrease density as you move away from these nodes. Promote walk-ability. Invest in high-quality environmental design. Encourage mixed-use development so that people can walk to shopping and work, or at the very least, have a reasonbly short trip. Set aside parks and open space throughout, and ideally create a green network of continous parks / bikeways / pedestrian paths throughout the entire metro area.

This is second nature to most of the rest of the world, but in the US our zoning & development industries have tipped the scales so far in favor of sprawing land use patterns that we no longer have a "free market". It has often been argued that people prefer single family housing, but the fact is that most buyers don't have much of a choice in the matter. Almost all new home construction is out at the fringes of the metro area, leaving the existing stock in the central city artificially expensive due to the lack of supply. This pattern is hardly unique to San Diego, but we are feeling the consequences here perhaps more acutely than anywhere else. It seems that in America we have forgotten how to build real cities.

even the nicest development is crapI've asked before and I'll ask again - I never said it was crap, but what's so nice about Eastlake?

Eastlake and those developments add to it in my opinion.Eastlake and its infrastructure will be a burden on any future attempts by the city to invest downtown. It's been argued elsewhere, but it is clear that these from-scratch suburban developments don't pay for themselves in terms of their infrastructure "footprint", passing their costs along to the rest of the city, county and state now that the 125 is being extended.

I'm shocked that this project didn't die, let alone be as big as Downtown's first 5 star hotel. And at 450 feet, as someone earlier said, it would be a great addition to the skyline in an area that could use high rises to add more depth. I'm shocked at the amenities it would include such as a huge pool and 40,000 foot conference center? that sounds crazy for that small surface parking lot in the Horton Plaza Block! But it says in that article that the building will actually go OVER the parking garage, so it's more believable. I hope that new renderings come soon, and hopefully this hotel will look better than CCDC's renderings of a tall, but VERY plain, wide tower...

Yeah, I was excited when I first heard the news, also. The Regent brand is consistently ranked in many "Best Of" lists for it's service and amenities. With Ritz-Carlton coming downtown as part of the Embarcadero Development, perhaps "The Donald" will build a Trump International here soon :) The biggest hole in the skyline is right where this hotel will be. There's nothing around it, so it will stick out like a sore thumb. Let's hope there's a redesign of the tower and that it will blow us all away. How about that $200 Million dollar mall makeover? Horton Plaza is 20 years old and deserves a much needed facelift, IMO.

Excellent news! Regent would be a great addition to downtown's hotel lineup. Maybe other luxury hotels may follow such as Four Seasons, Crowne Plaza, and Mandarin Oriental. I envision the design of the building won't be that fancy since the lot where it's proposed is only about 5 car lengths wide. Very limited space for an architect's imagination to run wild. But we'll see what they come up with.

Sticking to hotels, has anyone noticed that the Prava Hotel in the Gaslamp has closed? I heard it was a very good hotel. Anyone know anything about this?

While I agree that most suburban developments have a shelf life of about 20 years before they start to decline, Rancho Bernardo is a good example of a one that has been able to sustain it's appeal. I'm not saying Eastlake is the end all, but at least it's trying to incorporate some sort of density and a "core" so to speak, for the residents who live there. It has a nice setting, although they probably could have preserved more open space. For years, residents of the South Bay had few shopping and restaurant choices to choose from so I'm actually glad that they're building more down there. The bad thing, of course, is that it encourages sprawl.

I'm definitely with you on the need for in-fill projects. I live in Kensington and spend most of my time in the sign 'hoods, ie, Hillcrest, North Park, UH, etc. It's amazing to see all of the projects going up in there, especially in North Park. I'd love for El Cajon Blvd. to be bulldozed and rebuilt with highrises lining the street.

Regarding the Chargers Stadium in CV....why not? If San Diego can't get it done, and CV (or any other city in the county) can, let them do it. The difference between the 10th Ave terminal and the CV Bayfront is that there are no jobs or big businesses to be lost if you put it on the CV Bayfront. Chances of it actually happening are slim but hey, we can dream, right? ;)

Airport in the Imperial Valley? Are they crazy!?! I'll take LAX over Brawley International, anytime.

Excellent news! Regent would be a great addition to downtown's hotel lineup. Maybe other luxury hotels may follow such as Four Seasons, Crowne Plaza, and Mandarin Oriental. I envision the design of the building won't be that fancy since the lot where it's proposed is only about 5 car lengths wide. Very limited space for an architect's imagination to run wild. But we'll see what they come up with.
We've got the Four Seasons in Carlsbad, but a downtown location would be cool. We'd know that we've hit the big time if a Mandarin Oriental opened here. :)

Regarding the design, it says that part of the hotel will be built over the garage, so the boundaries of it's design won't be as limited as we think. Perhaps they'll use the narrow lot as their lobby or something. The small lot might be an advantage since it may force the tower to be taller. I'll take 500 feet in this case ;)


Sticking to hotels, has anyone noticed that the Prava Hotel in the Gaslamp has closed? I heard it was a very good hotel. Anyone know anything about this?
That's been closed for some time now. I had heard that it was a pretty cool place.

Bushman,

I hope you don't mind that I fine-tuned your earlier post to include renderings as a reminder of what's going up.



ELECTRA
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/electra.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/electra.jpg


LEGEND
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/legend.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/legend.jpg


DIAMOND VIEW TOWER
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/jmi4.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/diamview2.jpg


ARIA
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/aria.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/aria.jpg


CORTEZ BLU
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/cortezblue.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/cortezblu.jpg


VANTAGE POINT - This is taking a long time
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/vantage.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/1138809860548761.jpg


BAYVIEW AT THE EMBARCADERO
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/ash-render.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/bayview5.jpg


ICON - This sprung up overnight
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/icon.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/Icon3.jpg


LIBRARY TOWER - The site is being cleared
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Newlibtow.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/librarytower7.jpg



PARK TERRACE
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/parkterrace.bmp
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SAPPHIRE TOWER
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/saph3.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/sapphire7.jpg


MARKET STREET VILLAGE - Includes the second full-service downtown grocery store
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/marketstreetvillage.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/marketstreet.jpg


NEXUS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/nexus.bmp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/nexus1.jpg


THE MARK
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/mark.bmp
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SMART CORNER
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/smartcorner2.bmp
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Bushman,

I hope you don't mind that I fine-tuned your earlier post to include renderings as a reminder of what's going up.


Oh of couse, i dont mind at all, and it was my first time workin w/ photobucket or whatever it's called and i didnt even know it would work as well as i thought it would. Plus i finally figured out how to add more pics for my myspace! lol.

And the congressman who wants an aiport for Imperial Valley is Congressman Bob Filner. He's crazy to think that people would go on some stupid train for almost 100 miles jus to go to a friggin airport! Might as well jus go to LAX, i mean c'mon! Plus, there's problems w/ the flight path goin over Mexico, and flights comin from north might have to travel as far east as Phoenix just to specially line up w/ the airport. I mean, what kinda crap is that, and what sense does that even make to still want a SAN DIEGO airport there?

They should either go to East Miramar, do some land swapping or negotiating w/ the marines to get all of Miramar, or my favorite, try to look into that floating airport off the coast.

San Diego is going to build an airport in the desert, and keep Lindberg as a national subsidiary. I don't like it, I don't want it, but for some reason I see it. Miramar is not an option, even though they could easily move to CP to the north. East Miramar is in the same situation. North Island will never happen. Riverside and CP aren't even close.

I don't believe the people will be smart enough to go against the Marines to take back Miramar when its time for the election. I think they will be told by the military and congressmen like Mr.Filner that an airport in the desert is the only way to go, and it will be great for the "region".

As for a floating airport, not going to happen in a million years. To innovative and different for the people of this county.

Bob Filner is the living evidence of the problems that come with gerrymandering. His "regional airport" plan is nonsensical. I mean, I'd rather drive all the way to LAX instead of going to Imperial, and I live in South Bay!

I know the floating airport wont happen because a lack of vision and risk taking that plagues the city. But it would be great if it did get built.

And about Two America Plaza...It might be condos, i actually dont have a clue, i jus assumed w/ the name America Plaza, it would be Offices, plus it didn't really look like condos in the renderings

Glad to see you guys believe in the idea of the floatport, even if the city might not. One of my coworkers is the webmaster for the project, if you had any questions -

http://www.offshoreairport.org/Home.aspx

They're working feverishly to get it on the ballot later this year.

A Historic Pain in the Rear

By WILL CARLESS
Voice Staff Writer
Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2006

The drawings of Pacific Pointe, a proposed development in the East Village neighborhood of downtown San Diego, look pretty spectacular. In the artist's renderings, the building, 40 stories of blue glass, concrete and steel, thrusts its modernity proudly into the blue sky, dwarfing the modest structures below it.

But on the land where that edifice may eventually sit, there's a problem.

A decrepit, filth-encrusted two-story wooden hotel is standing in the way of the 409-unit condo project that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The project is on hold while lawyers, architects and historians argue over what should be done about the squalid structure that has been designated a historical site by the city's Historical Resources Board.

Similar stories are playing out across downtown as developers and preservationists walk the fine line between the development and destruction of downtown. Officials said at least six projects have been held up by the historical designation process, a process that some critics said has been a cumbersome hurdle for developers to pass.

The question of whether or not a building should be given historical designation falls to the city's Historical Resources Board.

This panel of 15 unelected experts, appointed by the mayor, assesses each building for its architectural or historical significance. Board members explained that they consider the aesthetics of a structure, who designed it, who lived there, and what role the building played in the city's history when determining if it has historical worth.

"San Diego should be representative of every period of development, we shouldn't have entire decades or generations that are no longer visible or relevant," said David Marshall, a member of the board and a prominent preservation architect.

Board members said they work to preserve not just the grand old buildings that are aesthetically pleasing, but also buildings that were used by everyday San Diegans and that are representative of a certain space in time.

The grubby, rather nondescript wooden hotel on 11th Avenue was built to accommodate visitors who flocked to San Diego for the Panama-California Exposition of 1915 -- the same event that gave birth to Balboa Park.

That's why it is deemed worthy of saving, said Laura Burnett, the board's vice president.
It is important to consider not the condition of the building, she said, but what the structure represents in historical terms.

"There are some really good examples of what I thought of as a really crappy little building being made into a wonderful part of the city," Burnett said.

So, after a developer has spent tens of millions of dollars on land, designs for a glamorous condo development and advertising, they are now left dealing with the revelation of a historical building slap-bang in the middle of their lot.

Asked how the developers of Pacific Pointe got into such a situation, the developers' architect said they had faced a similar scenario with a previous project in San Diego. That time, they got around the problem easily, he said. This time, it's proving a bit more difficult.

"We assumed that it would be the same process getting rid of this building," said Jason Bright, the lead architect for Pacific Pointe.

He said the number of people interested in preserving downtown has increased significantly in recent years, which has made it more difficult for developers to "get rid" of historic buildings that are in the way of their high-rise towers.

Historical Resources Board members said that's true to some extent, but stressed that the process for finding out whether there could be a potential issue with a historical building has actually become easier with time.

The Centre City Development Corp. has been working with architects and historians for the last 20 years to catalog the historic buildings in downtown, said Brad Richter, the principal planner at CCDC. However, they haven't yet completed a historical review of the East Village, where the Pacific Pointe Development is planned, he said.

Marie Lia, an attorney who helps to shepherd developers through the planning process, said the absence of such a historical review doesn't mean developers can't find out if there is a potentially historic building on the land where they plan to build.

Developers can conduct initial reviews of the site, and can work with CCDC to assess whether a site has historical significance, Lia said. In the event that they identify a historic building, developers can work with the city's Planning Department to incorporate the existing building into their design. That happened with the Electra development at the foot of Broadway. Alternatively, they can attempt to convince the city that the historic building is not worth saving.

Or they can move the offending building.

That's what Pointe of View, the developers who planned Pacific Pointe, have decided is probably the best solution to their problem. If they go ahead with the project at all, the developers have decided to literally lift the 19th-Century wooden hotel and move it around the corner to an adjacent lot, thus preserving the building's historical integrity.

But critics of CCDC's historical-designation policy argued that expensive solutions such as moving a building should never have to be resorted to. They said that in the face of such government regulation, it should have been easier for a developer like Pointe of View to establish whether they are going to face historical designation problems.

"Everyone -- from CCDC to the private property owners, to the San Diego City Council -- everyone agrees what's being done now is too old, and needs to be revised," said Matthew Adams, vice president of governmental affairs at the Building Industry Association of San Diego County.

The historical designation guidelines have been considerably overhauled in the new downtown community plan, which the City Council will consider on Feb. 28.

Adams said the community plan should make it easier for developers to guide their way through the tangle of government regulations in many ways, not the least of which is the simplification of the rules concerning historical designation.

But representatives of the Historical Resource Board and CCDC argued that the hold up at Pacific Pointe and other projects is due simply to the inexperience of certain developers doing work in downtown. Most developers have been able to negotiate the process without a problem, they said, and a company simply needs to do its due diligence properly to avoid any historical designation hiccups.

As for Pacific Pointe, the developer said he has already entertained an offer for the land. But that sale was thwarted by his historical-designation issues, he said, and until he gets those issues sorted out, he can't proceed with either selling the land or building on it.

Please contact Will Carless directly at will.carless

^^ Pointe of View is cursed.

True story - shortly after beginning the dig at Vantage Pointe they halted for a few days because they found... a bedpan. A historical artifact :bash:

"the inexperience of certain developers doing work in downtown. "

Yep.

Hahahaha. Poor Pointe of View. Thats what they get for messing with potential buyers and changing there condos.

Oh and heres furthur proof that the Hortan Plaza Hotel is going to be built.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/hortonplazahotelext.pdf

Its a CCDC notice for a meeting in which they will either approve or deny the permit for the hotels construction for another three years.

Oh of couse, i dont mind at all, and it was my first time workin w/ photobucket or whatever it's called and i didnt even know it would work as well as i thought it would.
Now that you've figured it out, we expect you to post lots of pics from now on. ;)

And about Two America Plaza...It might be condos, i actually dont have a clue, i jus assumed w/ the name America Plaza, it would be Offices, plus it didn't really look like condos in the renderings
I'm glad to see this project back in the news again. This is a great looking tower and will be a welcome addition to the skyline.




Regarding the article on Pacific Pointe.... I'm definitely for the preservation of old buildings, but if the one they're talking about is "crappy", I'm wondering if it's worth keeping? Can't Pointe of View just build around it or something? Maybe it's easier said than done.


It's good to see the Notice of Announcement for the Horton Plaza Hotel out so soon. Perhaps they really will break ground in August as the article says. If the old plan was for 30 stories at 450 feet, it makes sense that the latest proposal at 38 stories will be taller :)



An finally, my first choice for the new airport is Miramar, but we know the chances of it moving there are slim. That floating airport website is pretty interesting and cool.

I don't know why but I'm very dissapointed that Chula Vista is not getting those Espanada towers. I thought that project would really be a spring board for downtown Chula Vista. It is such a shame that it probably won't happen. It could have showed all of those idiot NIMBYs that midrises don't bring "noise and traffic". Go stand next to Park Laurel in Bankers Hill. That area is actually very quiet for where it is. All of these opponents have no idea what they are talking about.

Plus this project could have sparked others in places like downtown Escondido and Oceanside. It just pisses me off that we struggle to get midrises in this county outside of downtown and UTC. Why is this metro so anti midrise??? Look at Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, LA. They have midrises spread all over their metro areas. While we can only get them in 2 places. Oh well I guess this town is still very conservative.

Just another comparison of the rendering to the actual building. Might be a bit unfair because the picture of the actual building doesn't capture the orange facade on the island ave side.

http://static.flickr.com/39/86201478_32ecaa1aaa_o.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/7c876d57.jpg

Just another comparison of the rendering to the actual building. Might be a bit unfair because the picture of the actual building doesn't capture the orange facade on the island ave side.

http://static.flickr.com/39/86201478_32ecaa1aaa_o.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/7c876d57.jpg

Nope, it's not an unfair comparison at all. The cool renderings are completely off from the REAL Concrete monstrosity. And it would be a completely cool building if they just painted it.

^^Beau, since you're moving into Fahrenheit soon, perhaps you can make a suggestion to the homeowner's association to paint the darn thing. I'm also wondering why they used the corrugated, orange metal on only one side? The Island Ave. side looks better with it, IMO.

^^ No! :)

I like it just like this, it's a raw material aesthetic ala Louis Khan (ref. Salk Insitute).

Just like doma the building has two distinct personalities relating to function, the Island Ave. side (townhomes) corresponds to the 'venetian' regular condo side of doma, the the 10th ave. side which is the concrete section of lofts corresponds to the same at doma. The did pretty up the loft section of doma with some blue and orange accents (yet it's mostly unfinished) but I feel that actually betrays the idea trying to make it 'cute urban'.

I do agree though the Island Ave. side has more pop and wonder why they didn't orient the building the other way to make it more visible. My only guess is the work-live units are part of the loft section and the pedestrian walkway is across 10th, as well the loft section has more glass/privacy issues w/ M2i.

Nope, it's not an unfair comparison at all. The cool renderings are completely off from the REAL Concrete monstrosity. And it would be a completely cool building if they just painted it.

I never thought the rendering conveyed anything else but unfinished concrete on 10th... the colors are not quite there, the orange is brighter and the concrete is lighter but having seen this build up close numerous times (that hazy webcam shot above is kinda unflattering) they hit it pretty dead on IMO.

^^Hope I didn't offend you, Beau. :)

I really like the Island Ave side, and had they added one color to the other side, I wouldn't mind the exposed concrete at all. I agree that the web pic shown makes it look worse than it is. Is there retail on the bottom floor? If so, any word on what tenants will be there?

Here's a cheerier pic I just snapped of Fahrenheit -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%202/1139441595998934.jpg

^^ Oh not at all, it's a valid criticism. I just happen to be a fan of this style, but if folks have issues with it I understand completely. It could turn out the HOA does decide to have the builder perform exterior appointments after the fact.

I can understand the desire to have more tie-in between the two halves but I sorta look at it like separate buildings.

The entire 1st floor along 10th will be shopkeepers, 9 units. Not sure how much the total sqft is but I imagine about 1k per shop. That's alot of retail for a building of this size. These are work/live where the floor above these units is the live space - so several people who live in the building will also be the proprietors of the shops, but they could also choose to sublet the shop space. I briefly chatted with one of the shopkeeper owners and he plans to have a wine/beer mart of some sort, but it was one of those things where we just started talkig about it and the conversation was cut short so I could have misunderstood. I just hope half of them aren't touristy things for the Padres :)

I just hope half of them aren't touristy things for the Padres :)
That would be awful, wouldn't it?? Even so, 9 storefronts will be great for the street. Is there room for a coffeeshop or cafe? I like going to The Mission for breakfast on the weekend. Been to Cafe Chloe? That's good, too.

Here's some good news to share.... :)

While visiting a friend downtown today, I wandered into the sales office for Library Tower (which was packed, btw) just to check things out. I saw a set of blueprints sitting on a table that was stamped "Revised" and dated January 16, 2006, and decided to finger through it. What did I see you ask? According to those plans the height of the project has grown 20 feet, from 480 feet to 500 feet! That's good news, wouldn't you say?

That's great news, Pretty gutsy perusing those blueprints, which reminds me, I wonder if they have go to CCDC to present those changes.

Very interesting sd_urban. I hope that it is revised, I mean it would be a great thing to have such a slim tower at that height. Plus their aren't many buildings close to that height in that area, so from certian angles, that building is going to look big!

I'm also waiting for the revised design of Laundry loft. Anyone got news on that?

That's great news, Pretty gutsy perusing those blueprints, which reminds me, I wonder if they have go to CCDC to present those changes.
No, no, no.....the blueprints were there for anyone to look at! LOL

Very interesting sd_urban. I hope that it is revised, I mean it would be a great thing to have such a slim tower at that height. Plus their aren't many buildings close to that height in that area, so from certian angles, that building is going to look big!
Yep, the cluster of towers going up beyond the ballpark outfield will look awesome. There's Library Tower at 500' , Cosmo Square at 478', The Mark at 381', then Strata (21 floors), ICON 257', DiamondView (15 Floors), The Legend 240', etc. The best part is that they'll be layered from short to tall, which will allow all of the buildings to be seen from the stands. :)


I'm also waiting for the revised design of Laundry loft. Anyone got news on that?
Haven't heard or read anything about it for a long time now.

Yep, the cluster of towers going up beyond the ballpark outfield will look awesome. There's Library Tower at 500' , Cosmo Square at 478', The Mark at 381', then Strata (21 floors), ICON 257', DiamondView (15 Floors), The Legend 240', etc. The best part is that they'll be layered from short to tall, which will allow all of the buildings to be seen from the stands. :)



Haven't heard or read anything about it for a long time now.

and you have the 15th and island two building project at 370 ft and 430 ft, and the laundry lofts that will be over 400 ft. add that to the distant large large building over by cortez hill, that with have them appear over the tops of the mark and such. like pacific point, vantage point at over 400 ft., 11th and B at 26 stories.

the library light beacon will be visible, and of course the ball park village to the south. pretty much, where ever you look, you will get a fantastic urban viewpoint. the most amazing city center stadium of all time. and can you imagine how much drooling espn and the world will do when we get an all star game around 2010 or so. OMG just imagine.

^^I'm all excited now. Downtown is going to be great, I just hope nothing falls under...

the library light beacon will be visible, and of course the ball park village to the south.
How could I forgot about the library?!? At 10 stories with a huge illuminated, dome on top, it will definitely be a landmark building for the East Village. There's also the 385' Hilton going up behind Petco Park. If the Laundry Loft project is still alive, it will be approx. 460'. You mentioned Ballpark Village which will include 2 500' towers and 3 shorter ones.

Wow, if all goes as planned, 19 NEW high-rises (Including the new library) will be visible from the stands at Petco Park in a few short years. :)

^^Groovy! I just hope that it won't be too much of a distraction from the Padres games.

On another note, does anyone agree with me that the old Holiday Inn towers on the Embarcadero need to be razed? I was driving back on Harbor Dr. (after fishing in Pt Loma) and I had just noticed how ugly they are.

I also saw something interesting at the Electra construction site. They built some sort of flat roof over the train & trolley tracks. It was high (about 50-60 feet) connected to the base of Electra and it reminded me of One America Plaza's trolley station. Is that supposed to be a new trolley station?

^^On another note, does anyone agree with me that the old Holiday Inn towers on the Embarcadero need to be razed? I was driving back on Harbor Dr. (after fishing in Pt Loma) and I had just noticed how ugly they are.

I also saw something interesting at the Electra construction site. They built some sort of flat roof over the train & trolley tracks. It was high (about 50-60 feet) connected to the base of Electra and it reminded me of One America Plaza's trolley station. Is that supposed to be a new trolley station?

Yes! The Holiday Inn Towers DEFINITELY need to be razed and reconstructed. this time taller and hopefully a lot less boxy looking for more hotel rooms. The problem is I think they were built a LONG time ago, like maybe the late 70's, early 80's, and they didn't give a crap about architecture back then, and believe me, looking at old photos, they were a LOT uglier! Sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's, they got a paint job and that's the best they can do with it, and it's OKAY now, but i dont think they'll redevelop the site anytime soon because those hotel rooms are needed.

I haven't heard about the Trolley Station or whatever it is by Electra.

I'm with you guys, that Holiday Inn needs to go!! I can deal with it's ugly architecture, but the color of the buildings are hideous. It's so bad it wouldn't even good good in Miami Beach.

I saw the cover over the trolley line at Electra, but it doesn't look permanent to me. Who knows, maybe they put it there to protect the trolley from anything that might fall on top of it during construction.

Lets raze those holiday inns.

*grabs RPG*

Who's with me???!!!

I saw a set of blueprints sitting on a table that was stamped "Revised" and dated January 16, 2006, and decided to finger through it. What did I see you ask? According to those plans the height of the project has grown 20 feet, from 480 feet to 500 feet! That's good news, wouldn't you say?Sorry to be such a constant naysayer, but what you're probably reading is 500'-0" above mean sea level. I think the elevation of that site is about 15-20 feet so the original true height of Library Tower at 480'-485' is probably still correct. I doubt they would have changed the design so late in the process anyway. Are they breaking ground anytime soon?

FWIW, Mondrian is also 500'-0" tall (above mean sea level) - but the highest grade on the site is about 80', so the height of the building above the sidewalk is 420'-0", and that is the dimension that most people use to measure the height of a building. The FAA's height limit is based on height above mean sea level.

***The Airport Selection Group is really really stupid*** Second runway being reconsidered for take offs only. That would do nothing to make SD a major International hub nor help with the increased air traffic that much. What a joke they are.


Site-selection panel asks to review plan for MCRD
By Jeff Ristine
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
February 14, 2006

A previously discarded concept for a second runway at Lindbergh Field – using land occupied by the Marine Corps Recruit Depot – has resurfaced, as an airport committee dismissed two prospective airport sites in North County.

A delegation from the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority will visit the Pentagon on Thursday to discuss joint use of a Marine Corps or Navy base for a regional airport.

Graphic:


Airport
Along with the Miramar, North Island and Camp Pendleton concepts currently under analysis, planning committee members asked yesterday for a fresh look at the pros and cons of a dual runway in an expanded San Diego International Airport, should the MCRD land become available.

The concept arose in 2001 when Lindbergh Field was under the jurisdiction of the San Diego Port District. It has received scant attention in the current site-selection project because of limitations that would prevent the airport from achieving its long-term goal of handling 35 million passengers a year.

With other options falling by the wayside, Lemon Grove Mayor Mary Teresa Sessom said the airport board should at least review facts and figures with regard to a dual runway.

Analysis of the Miramar Marine Corps Air Station and North Island Naval Air Station is continuing despite strenuous objections from local military figures. Yet “nobody's talking about asking the military about using MCRD,” Sessom said, a concept some consider to be at least somewhat closer to the realm of possibility.

The board's Strategic Planning committee voted 3-1 for a review of the Port District concept at a future meeting. Chairman Paul Nieto of Chula Vista said he voted no because “we've clearly determined that it does not work. . . . It is not an acceptable site-selection solution.”

Meanwhile, the committee unanimously recommended the agency drop further consideration of a site near Valley Center and another in Rancho Guejito north of Ramona for single-runway airports to augment Lindbergh Field. A devastating market analysis said either facility would be unlikely to draw sufficient support from airlines or travelers.

If the full board concurs, the agency will be left with two nonmilitary locations for review. But both Boulevard in East County and the Imperial County desert are handicapped by their distance, multibillion-dollar improvements needed for access and environmental issues.

The renewed interest in a dual runway comes five months after the authority board firmly rejected further study of a second, parallel runway for Lindbergh Field. That option would have left the training depot untouched, but would have required the relocation of nearly 19,000 residents and the elimination of hundreds of businesses in the Midway District.

At the time, board members said they were analyzing the concept primarily to demonstrate how unworkable it was, compared to other proposals still in the mix.

There were similar cautions about the MCRD option.


Advertisement



“I think we'll end up with the same results,” board member William D. Lynch said. And member Xema Jacobson said she wanted to know mainly whether the dual runway “is doable or not,” and have information to rebut critics who suggest there is no need to look outside Lindbergh.

The subject is expected to arise when four board members meet Thursday with Assistant Secretary of the Navy BJ Penn to broach joint-use concepts. The meeting was scheduled after U.S. Rep. Susan Davis, D-San Diego, wrote Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld asking for insights on joint use of a military base.

The Port District analysis in 2001 concluded a dual runway at Lindbergh Field – sometimes called a closed V because of the shape it would form with the existing runway – would lead to a 15 percent to 20 percent increase in operations.

In 2005, Lindbergh Field tallied 220,000 operations – the combination of takeoffs and landings. It is thought to have a capacity of about 300,000 in a single-runway configuration, assuming Terminal 2 is expanded as planned and Terminal 1 is realigned at some future stage.

A closed V would render simultaneous landings or takeoffs out of the question; operations would have to be staggered.

A dual runway is thought to offer, at most, an increase of 60,000 operations a year. Consultants will study how many passengers could be accommodated, but Angela Shafer-Payne, vice president of strategic planning for the authority, said it would be well short of the 35 million benchmark.

Because of terrain obstructions, the second airstrip would have to be used primarily, and perhaps exclusively, for departures, Shafer-Payne said.

It would add at least 3,000 homes to the zone impacted by excessive noise and likely would require the airport to acquire land at the departure end of the 9,400-foot runway, which would fall into a crash or “accident potential” zone.

You're right, the selection process is really, really stupid. I don't like to make issues black or white, but IMO the only site that makes any sense at all is Miramar. If they can put together a large enough site in the North County or South County, then maybe there are more options. But proposing sites in Imperial & Riverside Counties and this new/old idea of expanding Lindbergh is ludicrous. BTW - SD will never be able to pull off the floating airport. It would be great, but not realistic at all.

Sorry to be such a constant naysayer, but what you're probably reading is 500'-0" above mean sea level. I think the elevation of that site is about 15-20 feet so the original true height of Library Tower at 480'-485' is probably still correct. I doubt they would have changed the design so late in the process anyway. Are they breaking ground anytime soon?
Hmmm..you could be right about that. I wish I had noticed the starting elevation of the rendering. I know that it showed the height of each ground floor all the way to the top. The top, of course, showing 500 feet.


FWIW, Mondrian is also 500'-0" tall (above mean sea level) - but the highest grade on the site is about 80', so the height of the building above the sidewalk is 420'-0", and that is the dimension that most people use to measure the height of a building. The FAA's height limit is based on height above mean sea level.
This confuses me, Symphony Towers is 499', while only a block or two away, Mondrian is said to have a mean height of 500', in a 420' tower. There can't be an 80' elevation change on B St. within 2 blocks?!?

Ok, that second runway plan at Lindbergh can't happen because it will forever ruin our dreams of a taller skyline. ;)

Hmmm..you could be right about that. I wish I had noticed the starting elevation of the rendering. I know that it showed the height of each ground floor all the way to the top. The top, of course, showing 500 feet.

This confuses me, Symphony Towers is 499', while only a block or two away, Mondrian is said to have a mean height of 500', in a 420' tower. There can't be an 80' elevation change on B St. within 2 blocks?!?
Two things:
1 - I believe (I could be wrong on this one) that the FAA overlay calculations changed in 1992. Symphony, One America, and the first Hyatt tower, all 500' tall for practical purposes, were built before 1992.
2 - The full-block Symphony Hall site is split into at least two properties. The southern property, which contains the 500' tall office tower is along B St where the grade is much lower than the northern half of the block at A St. - 8th Ave slopes about 40 feet between A & B Sts. So the building height above grade for Symphony is at least 30 feet higher as a result. Mondrian (which is directly across 8th from the Symphony Hall) is considered one property and the highest grade on the site dictates the building height calculation. But the net result is the same - there is an ultimate maximum height on the entire block regardless of what the grade is doing.

The highest point on Mondrian (and Vantage Pointe as well) will be within about 25-30 feet of the high point on the Symphony office tower. Once again, I believe this is due to the 1992 revision to FAA height restrictions.

^^If the FAA made changes in 1992 to the overlay calculations as you said, then all of this makes sense. I would imagine that the top of Symphony Towers is at least 530' above sea level. I guess the only place to build a 500' tower is near the water, which is no-no in my book.

How's the rendering for Mondrian coming along? Do you like what you see? We've only seen a one-sided rendering and it looks decent enough. Does the building have different heights to it, ala Vantage Pointe? Sorry for asking so many questions.... ;)

It will NEVER get approved by voters, and taking out The Marine Corps Recruit Depot for an unwanted second runway that will displace thousands and bring a HELL of a lot more noise to the Midway, Point LOma, & Banker Hill area, AND that will only improve conditions at Lindbergh for a few years at the most, makes Absolutely no sense. It sucks that so much money is being wasted on continuing a study for this site...

The Floating Airport would be really cool if there was a world-class engineering firm or something to completely give out the details on this project, how much it would cost, how it would be built, etc. It CAN happen, just as long as it can be fully proved, AND the city of San Diego has vision, which it doesnt have and really never did.

But the best choice is prolly negotiating some land-swap for miramar for the marines with Camp Pendleton or something. Hey, if worse comes to worse, why not East Miramar?

It will NEVER get approved by voters, and taking out The Marine Corps Recruit Depot for an unwanted second runway that will displace thousands and bring a HELL of a lot more noise to the Midway, Point LOma, & Banker Hill area, AND that will only improve conditions at Lindbergh for a few years at the most, makes Absolutely no sense. It sucks that so much money is being wasted on continuing a study for this site...

The Floating Airport would be really cool if there was a world-class engineering firm or something to completely give out the details on this project, how much it would cost, how it would be built, etc. It CAN happen, just as long as it can be fully proved, AND the city of San Diego has vision, which it doesnt have and really never did.

But the best choice is prolly negotiating some land-swap for miramar for the marines with Camp Pendleton or something. Hey, if worse comes to worse, why not East Miramar?Expanding Lindbergh will never happen. And East Miramar is the same as Miramar, as least in terms of getting the joint use from the Navy. You said it yourself, San Diego has no vision.

But the best choice is prolly negotiating some land-swap for miramar for the marines with Camp Pendleton or something. Hey, if worse comes to worse, why not East Miramar?

Exactly, the city must show far more effort to get us a decent airport. Lets see it this way, we could fight the Marines for Miramar or we could fight 10,000 who would be displaced plus all the NIMBYs that can join them. I'd rather fight with the Marines, at least you can make deals with them.

In any case, there's a thread on the forum where people post pictures of the best building of their city. Which should be SD's elected building? It doesn't have to be a highrise, so we are not stuck with One America Plaza or El Cortez.

This may have been posted before, but here goes anyway:

http://www.sandybabcock.com/work/work_images/wrk_lrg_img_maryland.jpg

http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/Maryland Hotel.jpg

http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/050801 view 2.jpg

SB Architects is leading the effort to convert this historic hotel property in the heart of San Diego's Gaslamp District into a chic, four-star boutique hotel. The six-story structure is being completely redesigned, with the goal of creating not only a hip downtown hotel, but a social destination for local visitors as well.

An indoor/outdoor restaurant and bar will define the property's prominent corner location on the ground floor, while a more private bar and lounge at the other end of this floor will lead, via a circular stair, to a basement-level nightclub. A more private roof deck will house a pool, bar, cabanas and indoor/outdoor function area.

All of the rooms and suites are arranged to overlook either the street life below, or two interior atrium spaces -- one with an operable skylight, and one open to the sky. Most of the rooms opening onto the atriums will have balconies overlooking these private outdoor spaces.

The project is currently under construction with a projected opening in late 2006.

I've been sworn to secrecy up until now - if the architect can post the project, I guess I can too. :)

BTW - It's at 6th & F Sts.

In any case, there's a thread on the forum where people post pictures of the best building of their city. Which should be SD's elected building? It doesn't have to be a highrise, so we are not stuck with One America Plaza or El Cortez.
Easily the trolley station at the base of One America. It's a little bit of Europe in San Diego. I just wish there was more - a lot more. :)

The FAA's height limit is based on height above mean sea level.[/QUOTE]



A question for sbaumberger....The height issue seems to be a hot topic on this forum. I have heard that cities can make the choice to ignore the FAA on height limits on a case by case basis.If a city does do this however,it would free the FAA from any responsibility. Is this true or false? Even if it is true, I don't see san diego building a 600+ tower in their future. Just curious,though. A second question about height....Does the overlay cover the entire city? Some people have said yes,some say parts of east village don't have the height limit. How much does the overlay cover and does it even go outside the city. And finally....concerning the first question...While doing some misc. research about the height limit online I found some older(1990's-2000's) articles that seem to suggest that the city has already gone against the FAA building height limits around the airport. Has the city built any buildings taller than suggested by the FAA that you are aware of? Your answers would be greatly appreciated.

A question for sbaumberger....The height issue seems to be a hot topic on this forum. I have heard that cities can make the choice to ignore the FAA on height limits on a case by case basis.If a city does do this however,it would free the FAA from any responsibility. Is this true or false? Even if it is true, I don't see san diego building a 600+ tower in their future. Just curious,though. A second question about height....Does the overlay cover the entire city? Some people have said yes,some say parts of east village don't have the height limit. How much does the overlay cover and does it even go outside the city. And finally....concerning the first question...While doing some misc. research about the height limit online I found some older(1990's-2000's) articles that seem to suggest that the city has already gone against the FAA building height limits around the airport. Has the city built any buildings taller than suggested by the FAA that you are aware of? Your answers would be greatly appreciated.
I have never heard of any city simply ignoring FAA height restrictions - it is impossible to obtain a building permit without complying with the FAA. On rare occasions a variance can be granted for a particular site, but this would have to be agreed upon by the city and the FAA itself. It's extremely rare though, and I seriously doubt anyone could make a case for a variance in downtown San Diego as long as Lindbergh is operational.

The FAA overlay covers all of downtown - the entire CCDC jurisdiction including all of the East Village - as well as parts of Banker's Hill and the "Five Points" area near Washington & Pacific Highway. There may also be restrictions on the west side of the airport, but there's not as much development pressure to the west in Point Loma & OB. Go to CCDC's website for a good diagram that shows the specific height restrictions mandated by the FAA downtown.

Great renderings, sbaumberger! I saw that the building was gutted except for the exterior facade. I didn't know it was going to be boutique hotel, with yet another rooftop bar/lounge. If I'm not mistaken, there are at least 6 rooftop bars now, with just as many being planned in the near future.


In any case, there's a thread on the forum where people post pictures of the best building of their city. Which should be SD's elected building? It doesn't have to be a highrise, so we are not stuck with One America Plaza or El Cortez.
How about the Museum of Man building in Balboa Park or the Hotel Del Coronado?


Sorry to be such a constant naysayer, but what you're probably reading is 500'-0" above mean sea level. I think the elevation of that site is about 15-20 feet so the original true height of Library Tower at 480'-485' is probably still correct. I doubt they would have changed the design so late in the process anyway. Are they breaking ground anytime soon?

FWIW, Mondrian is also 500'-0" tall (above mean sea level) - but the highest grade on the site is about 80', so the height of the building above the sidewalk is 420'-0", and that is the dimension that most people use to measure the height of a building. The FAA's height limit is based on height above mean sea level.
sbaumberger was right. I sent and received an e-mail back from the architect of Library Tower, Austin Veum Robbins Partners, yesterday confirming that the mean sea level height is 500', and that the tower itself is approx 480'. At least we were able to get one tower built above the mean sea level limit before the went into effect. It's probable that Symphony Tower is more or less 560' above the mean sea level. Damn that overlay!!!

[QUOTE=sbaumberger]I have never heard of any city simply ignoring FAA height restrictions - it is impossible to obtain a building permit without complying with the FAA.




Thanks for the info. I thought it didn't make much sense that a city could override the FAA. Banker's hill was the area that I heard the city built to high in. I am going back to search for info on that area and what happened. Thanks again...

The project is currently under construction with a projected opening in late 2006.[/I]

I've been sworn to secrecy up until now - if the architect can post the project, I guess I can too. :)

BTW - It's at 6th & F Sts.



It's under construction now? I never saw a listing for this project.What is it called? Also I noticed on your web-site that you have Daniel's little italy in your portfolio which should have started construction last year (CCDC site) but now has no timeline listed. Do you have any idea when it or 15th and island could start construction.Any chance this year? Thanx...

^^I not sure it's listed on the CDC website, but it's definitely under construction now. If I'm not mistaken, it's around the corner from the Hustler Hollywood store.

[QUOTE=sd_urban]^^I not sure it's listed on the CDC website, but it's definitely under construction now.



I wish someone would start updating the CCDC site on a regular basis again. It was so nice before,but now...Oh well....

Regarding Bankers Hill. When I would search for info on the height limit downtown a while ago, I would get an article from the daily transcript about the Park Laural Towers in Bankers Hill. Apparently the FAA wasn't to happy with the south tower, saying it shouldn't have been built due to its close proximity to the airport. Unfortunetly I am not a subscriber to the transcript so I wasn't able to read the whole article, except for the short paragraph with the info above. Anyone know anything? I mean its pretty interesting how that tower could have been built while the FAA has such a tight hold on other areas around the airport. Then again, I wasn't able to read the whole article...

I don't know about PLT but back in jan. 05' the city council was trying for a 2/3 vote to override the airport land use commission (ALUC) concerning the height of Bankers Hill town homes.Their site is still up so I assume this is a active project although I don't know what the results of the vote were back then.I also don't know the details of this dispute between the city and the ALUC....

It's under construction now? I never saw a listing for this project.What is it called? Also I noticed on your web-site that you have Daniel's little italy in your portfolio which should have started construction last year (CCDC site) but now has no timeline listed. Do you have any idea when it or 15th and island could start construction.Any chance this year? Thanx...
It's called the Maryland Hotel - that's the orginal name of the building dating back to about 1900 or so. It's well under way in terms of construction and they appear to be on schedule for opening later this year. The project has definitely flown under the radar, never being listed on CCDC's site. There are a bunch of retrofit projects throughout the core that never made it onto the CCDC diagram - a lot of the pre-war office buildings are converting to ..... condos!

I haven't heard anything about Daniel's in a while - I still hope they are able to move forward this year. The team was orignally planning on breaking ground in '05.

As for the 15th & Island project, I did get an update from CCDC on the pocket park on the western half of the site along 14th, so hopefully that bodes well for the condo side of the project - but with as many units as they're proposing, this project is more vulnerable than most to a downturn in the market.

BTW - the Laundry Lofts project, directly across Island from Pinnacle's project, has been put on indefinite hold. The "far east" in East Village may not be ready for such large projects in this building cycle. :(

And speaking of Banker's Hill, there's a new 13-story residential tower proposed for the corner of 6th & Palm Sts. - from today's Daily Business Report:
KMA Architecture & Engineering has completed concept and feasibility studies for a new mixed-use residential project at Sixth Avenue and Palm Street in Bankers Hill. The firm was retained to plan and design the 230,000- square-foot mixed-use development by the property owner, 3D Investments of Beverly Hills. The proposed project will have a 13-story residential tower on Sixth Avenue housing luxury for-sale units and a four-story building along Fifth Avenue. The four-story building will have street-level space and loft-style residential units. A total of 90 residential units are planned. Three levels of underground parking -- a total of 220 parking spaces -- are planned.

I wish someone would start updating the CCDC site on a regular basis again. It was so nice before,but now...Oh well....
Even though an old date of "September 19, 2005" appears at the top of main projects page, if you click on the individual projects you'll notice that those are being updated regularly. A while back I sent an e-mail to CCDC asking why the date hasn't been changed, but I guess no one cared to address the matter.

BTW - the Laundry Lofts project, directly across Island from Pinnacle's project, has been put on indefinite hold. The "far east" in East Village may not be ready for such large projects in this building cycle.
What a bummer. I ran into an acquaintance last summer who worked for Centex that told me a taller, better-looking tower was in the works. I guess the changing market has forced them to hold off at this point. :( I'm hoping to run into him again soon ,so I can get the scoop.

And speaking of Banker's Hill, there's a new 13-story residential tower proposed for the corner of 6th & Palm Sts.
I love Banker's Hill. I was there earlier this week and noticed how much the area is changing with new lofts to high-rises going up. While I'm sad to see some of the old houses go, it's pretty exciting to see high rises sprout up that offer views of Balboa Park and downtown. It's definitely evolving into the "Park Avenue" of San Diego. :)

Perhaps relocating the airport isn't as impossible as we think it is. :) Article from today's paper -



NAVY: 'WE WILL COOPERATE' ON NEW AIRPORT SITE

By David E. Graham
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

February 17, 2006

A senior Navy official told airport agency members yesterday that the Navy is willing to be “part of the process” of helping San Diego find a location for a new regional airport.

The meeting with Navy Assistant Secretary BJ Penn in Washington, D.C., was requested by San Diego County Regional Airport Authority members to inform him about their interest in sharing a military airport, said Joe W. Craver, chairman of the authority's board.

Penn did not commit to using the sites, nor did he preclude using Miramar Marine Corps Air Station, its East Miramar installation, Camp Pendleton or North Island Naval Air Station.

“They listened attentively and very respectfully,” Craver said in a brief meeting with reporters last night at Lindbergh Field upon returning with three other agency members.

Penn's message was, “We will cooperate with you,” Craver said, adding, “I think that is significant.”

Carver said “cooperate” at this point means listening to the airport agency's interest, but is not a specific commitment to the use of a base.

The authority is considering several sites for a new airport, including an expansion of Lindbergh.

It plans to put before voters in November an advisory measure on how to serve the region's future air passenger and cargo needs as Lindbergh becomes increasingly crowded.

Marine Corps and Navy officials here have previously said that using their bases would compromise national defense. They have said that at two often-mentioned sites, Miramar and North Island, civilian flights would interfere with pilot training, helicopters and the handling needed for aircraft that return with bombs or rockets.

Yesterday, Craver said Penn told him the Navy's criteria in evaluating any proposal would be whether it supports the Navy, troops and the country.

Craver said he came away with the feeling that sharing a facility was “something they want to go ahead and hear.”

The authority has hired a consultant, Ricondo & Associates, to evaluate the possibility.

The meeting with Penn came after Rep. Susan Davis, D-San Diego, wrote Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld asking for insights on joint use of a base.

Another option the authority is considering is adding a second runway at Lindbergh should land occupied by the Marine Corps Recruit Depot become available.

It also is considering locating a regional airport in Boulevard in East County or in the Imperial County desert, but the two sites are hindered by their distance, multibillion-dollar improvements needed for access and environmental issues.

^^Interesting, I wonder what will come of it. The Navy has seemed reluctant, but who knows?

I found some stuff on Revolution, a 22 story development in National City. Its alright, I mean its better then anything else thats going on in that small city. Its one of two projects, the other being Park Village at 24 stories I think. Heres the Revolution site:

http://www.revolutionliving.com/index2.html

Its from the same developer of Embassy1414, a project that greatly confuses me. Heres the companies main site:

http://www.constellationproperty.com/website/

^^I've seen print ads for Revolution in a couple of magazines, but nothing more. The Park Village project has been out of the news, though.




Looks like we're back to square one with finding a new airport site. Article from today's paper -



NAVY OFFICIAL: NO TO AIRPORT, BASE SHARING

By Jeff Ristine
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

February 18, 2006

A Pentagon official this week said San Diego's interest in military bases for a future regional airport is not drawing his support because it would “seem to jeopardize (military) training,” the airport agency reported.

First reports from a press conference after a Thursday meeting between the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority and a senior Navy official put a positive spin on the one-hour exchange. Assistant secretary BJ Penn was quoted as saying he was willing to “cooperate” with the authority's ongoing airport site analysis.

The authority issued a follow-up statement yesterday, indicating Penn also had strong reservations about any prospects for joint use of the Marines' Miramar Air Station, East Miramar, Camp Pendleton or North Island Naval Air Station.

“Mr. Penn stated that all solutions presented seem to jeopardize training for sailors and Marines, and therefore he could not support any of the proposals,” the authority said in a statement approved by Penn through an e-mail exchange.

Penn said the military would continue to provide information to site-selection analysts but “could not be teammates with the airport authority.”

Authority board chairman Joseph Craver said the meeting in Washington, D.C., was intended to brief Penn, not to seek action from the military.

The authority board, whose consultants are studying such issues as airspace, environmental impacts, noise and how far air travelers are willing to drive to get to an airport, expects to select a site for a November ballot measure by early summer.

Local military officials have said joint use is not possible. Among other problems cited are that the bases are not big enough for two full-time operators and that civilian flights would interfere with training, base security and defense readiness.

Craver and other board members say the legislation that established their agency require them to include military sites in their study.

On a lighter note, here are a couple of fluff articles about San Diego that appeared in the New York Times recently. -


SAN DIEGO

By SALLY HORCHOW
Published: February 19, 2006


WHY GO NOW Despite the recent sudden abandonment of its "America's finest city" motto, San Diego is nonetheless a thriving destination thanks to the ever-idyllic weather and a recent influx of billions of dollars toward downtown development, a mature crop of boutiques and nightclubs and a suddenly hot restaurant scene. Local restaurateurs are gaining notice outside their once-insular community, and acclaimed chefs are foregoing high-profile jobs in San Francisco and New York for the opportunity to become big fish in this smaller — but growing — pond, making San Diego worth a pilgrimage for fine dining.

WHERE TO STAY San Diego County spans 4,261 square miles (nearly the size of Connecticut) and any thorough visit will require some travel time ("about 20 minutes" is the oft-repeated estimate) between its distinct communities. The city itself is spread over an area slightly bigger than New York's five boroughs. Base your hotel choice on your interests — surf or city, for example — and plan day trips outward.

The modern, steel-and-glass-framed Tower 23 (4551 Ocean Boulevard, Pacific Beach, 866-869-3723, www.t23hotel.com) is the newest beachside option, bringing a cosmopolitan vibe to an otherwise stereotypically laid-back surfer community north of downtown (it's named after a lifeguard tower). In fact, a scruffily good-looking staff member delivering an appletini ($10) at the guests-only rooftop lounge and fire pit is more likely to volunteer tomorrow's surf report than any other tips for your visit. The 44 rooms have sleek bare-bones interiors, with a muted color scheme and flat-screen TV's. Its indoor-outdoor restaurant and bar, JRDN, serves steak and seafood with flawless sea-level views. Standard rooms run $199 to $439, with suites starting at $379.

For the most dramatic coastline views and luxurious accommodations in the area, book a Palisade room (starting at $575) facing the Torrey Pines Golf Course at the Lodge at Torrey Pines (11480 North Torrey Pines Road, La Jolla, 858-453-4420, www.lodgetorreypines.com). This hotel, on six and a half acres, is steeped in the post-and-beam construction, stained glass and Stickley-style furniture of the early 20th-century California Craftsman movement. Twenty minutes from downtown San Diego, the Lodge is nonetheless close to some of the city's best restaurants, including its own A. R. Valentien, whose menu changes daily depending on what's available from local farmers' markets and artisan producers. Double rooms are $375 to $825; suites $1,200 to $3,750.

Hotel Solamar (435 Sixth Avenue, 877-230-0300, www.hotelsolamar.com) opened downtown last year, replacing the nearby W Hotel for the hip set. No one seems to mind that night noise wafts to the upper six of the 10 stories, which overlook the 13,000-square-foot pool deck and Jbar lounge, a nightly scene packed with young, stylish locals and travelers. The 235 rooms start at $209, with suites from $259.

WHERE TO EAT Perhaps most emblematic of San Diego's shift toward the foodie big time was the August opening of Jack's La Jolla (7863 Girard Avenue, La Jolla, 858-456-8111, www.jackslajolla.com), a multilevel restaurant that lured Tony DiSalvo, former chef de cuisine of Jean-Georges in New York, to be its chef and co-owner. In addition to the Wine Bar, which stays open until 2 a.m. (an anomaly in sleepy La Jolla), Jack's offers the Sidewalk Cafe, Jack's Grille and the more formal Dining Room at Jack's, with seven- ($85 a person) or nine-course ($110) tasting menus. Such options as sautéed Sonoma foie gras with passion fruit, red wine and baby bok choy, and poached Maine lobster with risotto, Sonoma apple and kaffir lime broth have quickly attracted a following.

Financing dictates that the most inventive high-end restaurants in this town are mainly relegated to hotels, which explains why Arterra (11966 El Camino Real, 858-369-6032, www.arterrarestaurant.com), which is co-owned by Bradley Ogden, the San Francisco chef, is a success despite its unlikely location in a Marriott in Carmel Valley, a suburb 17 miles north of downtown. Undeterred, diners book tables adjacent to the exhibition kitchen to watch Carl Shroeder prepare "contemporary farm-fresh American cuisine" (for two without drinks, $30 for breakfast, $45 for lunch or $85 for dinner).

El Bizcocho (17550 Bernardo Oaks Drive, 858-675-8550, www.ranchobernardoinn.com) is another worth-the-trip hotel restaurant. Its young star chef, Gavin Kaysen, has attracted attention near and far for his inventive take on classical French fare like lamb loin en sous vide with wilted arrowleaf spinach, porcini purée, baby turnips and black truffle jus ($36). There is also a plentiful Sunday brunch buffet ($36; $20 ages 4 to 14).

Back in San Diego proper, a few restaurants not in hotels have developed the requisite design-to-food ratio to meet the masses of sophisticated urbanites living in new loft developments. Cafe Chloe (721 Ninth Avenue, 619-232-3242, www.cafechloe.com) is a charming corner restaurant that serves enormous bowls of cappuccino and small-producer wines by the glass alongside bistro fare to East Village creative types. Dinner for two with a glass of wine, $80.

Near Balboa Park is Laurel (505 Laurel Street, 619-239-2222, www.sdurbankitchen.com/laurelrestaurant.html), a recently reinvented San Diego favorite with a bold black, white and lipstick red look that may be a few swinging paces ahead of its still-transitional older crowd. The food is just as rich and inventive as the décor. Case in point: beef tenderloin with foie gras and orzo pasta crème caramel ($33).

Plan to forgo at least one fancy meal to sample the area's signature dish, the fish taco, a beer-battered and deep-fried fish filet with shredded cabbage, salsa and white cream sauce folded in a soft corn tortilla. The classic (and probably the best) version can be found at the original location of Rubio's Fresh Mexican Grill (4504 East Mission Bay Drive, 858-272-2801), the walk-up taco stand that grew into a 150-location chain ($1.59 a taco).

WHAT TO DO AT NIGHT If you still have the energy after fine dining and drive time on Friday or Saturday, dance it off with the young and beautiful at Stingaree (454 Sixth Avenue, 619-544-0867), a trendy Gaslamp Quarter club that best represents the city's Los Angeles or Las Vegas aspirations. Don't miss the third level, the Oasis rooftop lounge, replete with private cabanas, bars and fire pits. Cover is $20.

WHERE TO SHOP Skip the malls and pick a neighborhood, as the shopping is easily categorized by each area's distinct demographic. To wit: on Prospect Street and Girard Avenue in affluent La Jolla, pick up high-end designer basics at Nicole Miller (1275 Prospect Street, 858-454-3434) and Polo Ralph Lauren (7830 Girard Avenue, 858-459-0554), browse expensive antiques stores and galleries, and attend book signings at Warwicks (7812 Girard Avenue, 858-454-0347, www.warwicks.com).

Once home to a real immigrant community and now a trendy area for young professional couples, Little Italy has seen its mom and pop storefronts more or less replaced by an alliance of modern furniture shops and galleries called the Art & Design District (www.taddsd.com). India Street and Kettner Boulevard are the two main streets for such home design stores as Zazou Home (2136 Kettner Boulevard, 619-234-3841, www.zazouhome.com), which sells custom furniture and woodwork by Tabla, and Boomerang for Modern, (2040 India Street, 619-239-2040, www.boomerangformodern.com), with vintage pieces by Charles and Ray Eames and Herman Miller.

There are also stores that pay homage to the area's roots by specializing in imported Italian products — like the Murano glassware at Simply Italian (1646 India Street, 619-702-7777, www.simply-italian.com), or Tuscan ceramics at Bella Stanza (1501 India Street, 619-239-2929, www.bellastanzagifts.com). And yes, some originals remain, like Mona Lisa Italian Delicatessen (2601 India Street, 619-239-5367), a specialty food market where you will still hear more Italian than English spoken.

In the East Village, downtown's growing cultural center, the few stores beginning to pepper the loft-laden residential streets are edgy one-of-a-kind boutiques. The sneaker-obsessed go crazy for the rare Nike and special edition Adidas models at Blends (726 Market Street, 619-233-6126), a sleek white temple of footwear near Petco Park.

Nearby, at 5 & A Dime (828 G Street, 619-236-0364, www.5andadime.com), the owner, Jay Dread, sells art zines, Pez dispensers and designer toys, and puts on periodic art shows.

And Hessian Global Goods (675 G Street, 619-239-7891) is an eclectic emporium, where you can find Mexican Day of the Dead figures ($18.50), a Japanese tea pot ($88) or unusual organic coffees from Australia, Africa and Indonesia ($1.50 for a 16-ounce cup).

WHAT TO DO DURING THE DAY Get sandwiches (about $7) from the go-to bread source for all the notable area restaurants, Bread & Cie (350 University Avenue, 619-683-9322), and then pick a spot beneath Balboa Park's landmark tree, the 91-year-old Moreton Bay fig tree, which is over 60 feet tall and provides ample shade for a picnic. Then take a short walk north and spend the afternoon at the fantastic San Diego Zoo (619-234-3153, www.sandiegozoo.org; admission starts at $22; $14.50 for ages 3 to 11).

YOUR FIRST TIME OR YOUR 10TH With good timing, you can forgo Sea World in lieu of a more up-close-and-personal ocean experience: whale watching. From mid-December to mid-March, when thousands of California gray whales pass by San Diego on their annual southern migration to the warm breeding grounds of Baja California, trained naturalists lead half-day cruises five to seven miles off shore, and almost always spot not only the spectacular whales, but also dolphins, harbor seals and sea lions. San Diego Harbor Excursions (619-234-4111 or www.sdhe.com), is one of several companies that run tours; it offers two a day, lasting three and a half hours ($27 to $30, and $15 for ages 4 through 12.)

YES, FREE There's 70 miles of coastline, near-perfect weather year round, and free public access and parking, so you'd be crazy not to head to one of San Diego's beaches. For a picture-perfect treat at high tide, snap a shot of the sunning seals awash inside the break wall at the Children's Pool beach in La Jolla (850 Coast Boulevard), with the dramatic cliffs of the La Jolla Cove in the background.

GETTING THERE Both JetBlue and American Airlines have two daily nonstop flights (starting at around $250 round trip)from Kennedy airport in New York into San Diego International Airport, which is minutes from downtown. A rental car is essential to make a thorough tour of the area; roads and highways are well-marked, and valet parking is available at most of the hotels and restaurants mentioned.



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36 HOURS

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO

By JANELLE BROWN
Published: January 20, 2006


UNTIL the mid-1970's, San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter was a seedy red-light district habituated almost exclusively by sailors on leave from local military installations. But a huge development project has turned the zone into a buzzing center for night life, and surrounding downtown neighborhoods like East Village, Hillcrest and Little Italy are now peppered with cranes putting up new loft buildings, destination restaurants and high-end boutiques. All of which is to say that it has become easy for the culturati and the hip to spend a weekend totally free of the city's more vanilla family-friendly entertainments. San Diego isn't just about Shamu the whale and the Wild Animal Park anymore.


Friday

3 p.m.
1) High Art

Start your weekend with a survey of the art scene. The stunning location of San Diego's Museum of Contemporary Art - perched on a cliff overlooking the ocean in La Jolla - is strong competition for the art inside. Besides housing a collection of pieces from Robert Irwin, Ed Ruscha, Robert Therrien and Bill Viola, the museum also showcases emerging artists and special exhibitions by pioneers like Andy Goldsworthy. At the museum's downtown outpost, a loft space that shows more avant-garde pieces, you can see its Cerca Series, dedicated to the art and artists of Los Angeles, San Diego and Baja California. Admission is $6 in La Jolla; free downtown. (700 Prospect Street, La Jolla; 858-454-3541; and 1001 Kettner Boulevard, downtown; 619-234-1001.)

5 p.m.
2) Sunset on Roof Beach

The only beach in downtown San Diego is actually on a roof at the W Hotel (421 West B Street, 619-231-8220). When happy hour starts on Fridays, the pretty young things shed their stilettos and nab cabanas inside the hotel's Beach bar for cocktails in plastic cups. Watch the sun set over the skyscrapers with your feet planted in three tons of heated (yes, heated) sand, warmed by the fire pit and the sounds of lounge music. It's easy to forget that the ocean is actually nowhere in sight.

8 p.m.
3) Wine or Lemonade

Settle in with a glass of Côtes du Rhône and a bowl of mussels ($14.50) at Cafe Chloe (721 Ninth Avenue, 619-232-3242), a cozy bistro tucked on a corner in East Village, a few blocks east of the Gaslamp Quarter. The sign over the door is a cameo portrait of an owner's daughter, and the atmosphere is homey, despite the chic European décor. Open from 7 a.m. till 10 p.m. most days (and slightly later on weekends), the bistro multitasks as a cafe, a wine bar and a full-fledged restaurant for lunch and dinner. Don't miss the tasty lavender lemonade ($3.50) or the steak frites ($18).

Saturday

9 a.m.
4) Harborside Morning

The busy harbor off San Diego's downtown is lined with miles of paths, which make for a picturesque morning stroll. Start out by the cruise ship terminal (Broadway and Harbor Drive) and wander south along the waterfront toward touristy Seaport Village, checking out the trawlers, aircraft carriers and, in the marina, enormous private yachts. The paths belong to the morning joggers and dog-walkers, the skies to the helicopters that occasionally buzz overhead.

10:30 a.m.
5) San Diego Recharger

The Mission restaurant is a San Diego institution, serving Mexican-inspired breakfasts and lunches at three outposts. The branch (1250 J Street, 619-232-7662) in SOMA (for South of Market, but no one calls it that), in an old plantation-style building that sits in the shadow of the Petco Park baseball stadium, is light, airy and filled with young hipsters from the surrounding lofts. Try a breakfast quesadilla ($6.50) or a Mission croissant stuffed with eggs and cheese ($6.95).

Noon
6) From Red-Light to Gaslamp

Look up. Those modern storefronts in the Gaslamp Quarter are actually part of some of San Diego's most historic architecture: multistory Victorian commercial buildings from the 1870's and 80's, put up by developers from San Francisco after the start of the Gold Rush. The neighborhood subsequently endured more than a century of booms and busts - including grim periods when it was called Rabbitville, Flea Town and Stingaree - and was a red-light district from the late 1880's through the early 1970's. But the neighborhood somehow avoided the urban redevelopment blight of the mid-20th century, and today, nearly 100 buildings have been meticulously restored. Pick up an architectural walking-tour map ($2) at the Gaslamp Quarter Historical Foundation in the William Heath Davis House (410 Island Avenue, 619-233-4692), the area's oldest building (it was built in Portland, Me., shipped around Cape Horn and reassembled in 1850). Or join the two-hour guided tour that begins there every Saturday at 11 a.m. ($10).

3 p.m.
7) Art, Design, Commerce

San Diego's answer to SoHo is the emerging neighborhood of Little Italy, where boutiques and galleries have banded together to form the Art & Design District. Don't miss Cathedral Home (611 West Fir Street), for Jonathan Adler textiles, or Niche Boutique (621 West Fir Street), for Marc Jacobs shoes. Both are in the colorful strip of boutiques known as the Fir Street Cottage Shops. Nearby, you'll find home design stores like Vetro (1760 Kettner Boulevard), which sells colorful vintage handblown glass; Disegno Italiano (1605 India Street), for Alessi accessories; and Mixture (2210 Kettner Boulevard), for contemporary furniture. Check taddsd.com to find out about Kettner Nights, a sporadic Friday night block party.

8 p.m.
8) Chive Talking

The Gaslamp Quarter is lined with restaurants, many of which are drowning in neon and sardined full of rowdy tourists and college students. For a more refined dining experience, go to Chive (558 Fourth Avenue, 619-232-4483), one of three chic restaurants, including Laurel and Kensington Grill, owned by the locally renowned Tracy Borkum. Inside this minimal gray room, Chive serves warm edamame instead of a bread basket, and dishes like Hawaiian sunfish with wild mushroom egg rolls ($26) or savory pork chops with white cheddar and pancetta bread pudding ($24). Not so hungry? There's also a grazing menu with snacks like feta fries ($5) and duck nachos ($8).


9:30 p.m.
9) All Night Long

If your feet still have it in them, take your pick of the Gaslamp Quarter's countless bars and clubs. The newest and trendiest club is Stingaree (454 Sixth Avenue, 619-544-9500), a three-story turquoise-and-orange warren of rooms that resembles something from "A Clockwork Orange." Twenty dollars and snappy clothes will get you in the door to dance beside San Diego's designer-clad night-crawling set. Get there early to avoid lines, or, if you're really committed, dine at Stingaree's restaurant before 8:30 to guarantee admittance.

Sunday

9 a.m.
10) Breakfast Challenge

O.K., so maybe you overdid it last night. Hash House A Go Go (3628 Fifth Avenue, 619-298-4646), a farm-equipment-themed diner in the stylish Hillcrest neighborhood, has the cure for you: O'Hare of the Dog, a 24-ounce Budweiser with a side of bacon ($6.95). Or maybe you'd prefer Snickers flapjacks with whipped cream ($6.95), meatloaf hash tossed with crispy potatoes, topped with two eggs and served in a cast-iron skillet ($11.95) or the more traditional eggs Benedict ($10.95). Regardless, portions are enormous and guaranteed to put you in a food coma.

10:30 a.m.
11) Beneath the California Sun

Maybe you're not feeling much like a bikini by this point, but no trip to San Diego is complete without a visit to one or another of the city's 70 miles of beaches. Bohemian Pacific Beach, above (near the intersection of Grand Avenue and Mission Boulevard), is San Diego's version of Venice Beach - a two-mile stretch of sand populated by the eternal young, lined with crab shacks and modest cottages. Watch the surfers from the end of the picturesque Crystal Pier, if you're not brave enough to test the waves yourself.

The Basics

The San Diego International Airport is just minutes from downtown (the approach brings planes alarmingly low over the neighborhood). A rental car is useful if you're headed to the beaches or outer neighborhoods. The Flyer Route 992 bus (619-685-4900, www.sdcommute.com) offers service between the airport and downtown ($2.25); other buses and the local trolley thoroughly cover the downtown neighborhoods.

Although the Gaslamp Quarter has plenty of generic chain hotels - including an enormous Marriott, a Hyatt and a Hilton - it also recently gained two designer hotels. Hotel Solamar (435 Sixth Avenue, 877-230-0300; www.hotelsolamar.com), from the Kimpton Hotel group, has 235 spacious rooms decorated in a curious

Op Art/Arabian Nights/beach motif, and a pleasant rooftop pool and bar. Standard rooms start at $249.

San Diego's W Hotel (421 West B Street, 619-231-8220; www.whotels.com/sandiego) is done in a colorful California-beach-meets-urban-chic décor, and its three bars and its restaurant are popular destinations for a fashionable local set. The 259 standard rooms and suites start at $239 a night.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/1735c943.jpg

I dont know if anyone can make sense out of this Airport Overlay Approach Zone I got from the downtown community plan, but i sure can't.

Any questions, go to http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/airport_overlay.jpg
and http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/index.html

what that tells me is most of east village is without limit, height wise.

I think it might be from that line on...

(line)500ft ----> from that line.

I just realized something, Ballpark Village isn't going to have 500ft towers. It will probably have 470-90ft buildings instead, since this whole sea level restriction has come to light. Great, even better. We dont have a 500ft limit, we have a 490 limit at best!

:(

I just realized something, Ballpark Village isn't going to have 500ft towers. It will probably have 470-90ft buildings instead, since this whole sea level restriction has come to light. Great, even better. We dont have a 500ft limit, we have a 490 limit at best!

:(



That may be true since I have not seen the complete plans for this project yet....however, why did jmi realty say on my local tv broadcast that 2 of the towers would be 500ft.(look back on some of the news online about this since it got approved).I didn't hear 450 or 475.I'll give them 490 since it is close enough to 500. We'll just have to wait for the plans. In san diego I always knew about the 500ft. limit (just not how much area it covered) but I never heard that it starts from sea level until recently.That means it is impossible to build a 500 ft. building in san diego city unless you build it on the water. Most buildings would be 400-480ft. max. Maybe true,but all these years all the media must of thought it was 500ft.Also I did some research concerning airports,major cities and height limits.San diego seems very constricted compared to other cities.I am sure there must be other major cities with height limits lower than san diego,but I couldn't find any.Anyone out there to shed some light on this?

I think it might be from that line on...

(line)500ft ----> from that line.



If that is true...where does the line end? North park? National City? Chula vista? Mexico? I had the same problem with this map.I scanned it and sent a e-mail to the FAA to explain it to me. FAA,if you can hear me...I'M STILL WAITING!!!!

what that tells me is most of east village is without limit, height wise.




I think this is why people keep telling me the overlay doesn't cover all of east village. They're seeing what you are seeing.

[QUOTE=bushman61988]
I dont know if anyone can make sense out of this Airport Overlay Approach Zone I got from the downtown community plan, but i sure can't.


Don't worry,you're not alone. I think the FAA is currently trying to figure this out themselves,which is why they have not e-mailed me back.

When it comes to JMI telling people the buildings would be 500ft it could be one of two things:

1) The building are so close to the sea level that its around 495' in hight so they round up.

2) Its like what trump does when he talks about his buildings. I mean the developer probably adds in the ground level to say 500' thus making the towers much more impressive.

All this sea level+building height limit is confusing me somewhat, but when you take it into perspective, it kind of makes sense.

If that is true...where does the line end? North park? National City? Chula vista? Mexico? I had the same problem with this map.I scanned it and sent a e-mail to the FAA to explain it to me. FAA,if you can hear me...I'M STILL WAITING!!!!

Good point, I don't know. But they wouldn't lable, or in this case not label an area that obviously does have a height limit.

My conclusion.

Their is a hight limit of 500ft over ALL of downtown.

That height limit, as of 1992, includes ground level height.

Until the aiprot is gone NOTHING above 500'-ground level height will be built downtown.

Perhaps relocating the airport isn't as impossible as we think it is. :) Article from today's paper -




It also is considering locating a regional airport in Boulevard in East County or in the Imperial County desert, but the two sites are hindered by their distance, multibillion-dollar improvements needed for access and environmental issues.



The stupid part of the new airport story is this....If san diego decideds to build a new airport outside of san diego say, imperial county,riverside,mexico,whatever...they can't do it.We in san diego have no control over imperial county,riverside,etc...it is not our choice.It would be their choice and their airport.San diego may as well plan on building a new airport in LA. Hey,let's build a new stadium up there too for the chargers to play in.What complete idiots run the city these days.Idiots.

Until the aiprot is gone NOTHING above 500'-ground level height will be built downtown.



And I have the feeling the san diego airport will only be gone when we stop using airplanes to fly. PS: Everyone on this forum from now on has to stop talking about the 500ft. height limit,it appears we have a,say, 480ft. limit. That is the height of the tallest building being built today in san diego.

The Ballpark Village towers do have the potential to be at least 490 feet tall - I believe grade is at most 10 feet above MSL at the southern portion of the site, which is where the tallest buildings are planned. Of course, it's impossible to build tall buildings close to the proposed Main Library (real or not) due to the new sun access requirements.

I can't tell the difference between a 490-foot tall building and a 500-foot tall building - can you?

San diego seems very constricted compared to other cities.I am sure there must be other major cities with height limits lower than san diego,but I couldn't find any.Anyone out there to shed some light on this?San Jose's airport is even closer than SD's, and their height limit is less than 300 feet for most of downtown - if that makes you feel any better about it. :)

I can't tell the difference between a 490-foot tall building and a 500-foot tall building - can you?




Better yet, can the FAA? :bash:

San Jose's airport is even closer than SD's, and their height limit is less than 300 feet for most of downtown - if that makes you feel any better about it. :)[/QUOTE]




Oh, I know I'm asking for a hit on this one,but, I don't look at San Jose as a up and coming city like san diego is. I look at it like orange county...a large group of people in a city in the shadow of a greater city (e. los angeles,san francisco). San diego can be a great city in the future...if it has the will. And on its own.... Angry citizens of SJ and the OC...your views...

San Jose's airport is even closer than SD's, and their height limit is less than 300 feet for most of downtown - if that makes you feel any better about it. :)[/QUOTE]



And to answer your question,no, it doesn't. Which is why I think we need to start building 600-1500 ft. buildings in our deserts now,today. Before some idiot decides to build a new airport out there! :eek2:

Sbaumberger, you seem to have a lot of info. What would you do about a new airport? Am I the only one who thinks having a airport close to a city with san diego's future growth is a little scary? I remember reading if this city had another 1978 type crash that thousands would die.This city is growing and growing fast.Even at 500ft.,flying over a city of this size all the time is crazy.This city and the FAA(who will get the blame in the end) are just asking for a major accident in the future.The airport was built in the 20's when there was no real city here.Times change but the airport has not. I see in my lifetime something really bad happening to this city with a crash.I guess the city is waiting for the worst to happen before moving the stupid thing.I love san diego but what a dumb city I live in!! :runaway:

San Diego had no foresight. So many missed oppertunities, but hey we can't dwell on the past. I think the best we can do is be thankful for density and hope that either the aiport is moved, or theres and eathquake and all the reclaimed land under lindberg liquidates back into the bay :D

Im thankful, but still pissed at what could be. Anyways back to reality...

As for Sbaumberger, hes like the insider of this board. He knows all, so don't question him! :lol: Plus its better to know the truth then dwell on rumors of a taller building.

Great find, bushman61988! As everyone's already said, there doesn't appear to be a height limit over the East Village , but yet the we know it's there. It kills me that the FAA needs to impose a height limit over an area that's not in the way of the flight path! Also, they definitely need to get rid of the limits over the obsolete second runway that's shown.

If you ask me, I think the mean sea level height limit will make the top our skyline look like a freshly mowed lawn, with all heights being the same. If each building had a 500 foot limit, a least downtown's topography would help vary the heights overall.


I am sure there must be other major cities with height limits lower than san diego,but I couldn't find any.Anyone out there to shed some light on this?
Phoenix also has a 500 foot height limit, but luckily our skyline looks alot better than theirs.

I can't tell the difference between a 490-foot tall building and a 500-foot tall building - can you?
Nope, but 500' looks better on paper than 490'. ;)

San Diego had no foresight
That statement says it all!

It's good to see that others think this project is as important to them, as it is to us forumers. Article from today's paper. -



S.D. MAYOR BACKS NAVY WATERFRONT REMODELING

By Cheryl Clark
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

February 19, 2006

Mayor Jerry Sanders said yesterday that he is backing the Navy's as yet undisclosed plan to remodel its dreary Broadway waterfront complex into high-rise offices, hotels and stores, saying the city's support “is based on trust.”

He is confident, he said, that the Navy plan “will ultimately result in an amazing front porch for our vibrant downtown,” unlike what it is today, a drab stretch of buildings that visitors find oddly out of place in such a scenic harbor.

Besides, Sanders said, to not back the plan would mean the 15-acre Broadway complex “could very well fall to the perils” of the government's base-closure process. Sanders declined to give details, but officials with city development agencies – long involved in discussions about the Navy's property – were more specific.

They said that if the Navy's developer doesn't develop the site, other defense or federal agencies would get to move in, with potentially dreadful consequences to San Diego's harbor.

Julie Meier Wright, chief executive officer of the city's regional Economic Development Corp., said other branches of the military would get first crack at the property. They might choose to keep the same old buildings that now provide offices for 1,200 Navy personnel, maintaining the eyesore, she said.

If those agencies don't want the buildings, federally recognized American Indian tribes might turn the property into casinos or the U.S. Postal Service might use it as an annex, she said.

The issue moved to the city's front burner last year when the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Commission earmarked the Navy base to be closed. However, the Navy obtained a special agreement that it could keep the base if it could enter into a long-term lease with a developer that would clean up pollution, remodel and modernize the area by Jan. 1, 2007.

The Navy agreed to a compromise that provided the city with some leverage. The Centre City Development Corp., the city's downtown redevelopment agency, set forth broad specifications for the property, including open space, parking and pedestrian access. Navy officials said all bids incorporate those parameters.

Navy officials are in the process of selecting the developer from an undisclosed number of proposals and will make the company's name public around March 31, said Scott Forrest, director of the Navy's Special Venture Acquisitions.

The plan is expected to include about 3 million square feet, some 300,000 of which would house the 1,200 Navy administrative personnel who now work there.

Forrest said yesterday that he expects groundbreaking in a year, and ribbon-cutting a year or so later.

Navy and city officials reiterated their intent to listen to public opinion once the plans are made public, although city officials acknowledged yesterday that the Navy would probably have the final say.

In recent weeks, the Navy plan has met community resistance from a number of architects, planners and civic organizations who worry that the city's most visible and valuable remaining waterfront is being developed without public input by the Navy in a way that is not in the city's best interests. Besides, they said, the military could easily work elsewhere, such as the 32nd Street Naval Station.

Several skeptics, including Mike Stepner, who worked for 27 years as a city planner, said the plan should provide more than the designated 1.9 acres of open space. “There's some concern about what the Navy might be proposing,” he said in a telephone interview yesterday.

But Councilwoman Toni Atkins said the concerns are unfounded. “The consequences of trying to derail this process at this late hour will have a very negative effect on realizing this vision,” she said.

Capt. Mike Allen, Navy Region Southwest chief of staff, acknowledged the concerns about the lack of public input so far. But he said that because of defense regulations, “unfortunately we are not at a stage where we can share specific aspects of the evaluation phase with the public.”

He added that the Navy complex “is critical to the Navy's future presence in San Diego” and that the Navy will “work closely” with the city and the public.

“The Navy has always prided ourselves on being a good neighbor and fellow community member while fulfilling our critical mission of supporting our war fighters,” Allen said.

“The Navy has always prided ourselves on being a good neighbor and fellow community member..."

HA! Tell that to the airport commission.

As for the complex, although Im slighty worried about what the Navy might propose, I have faith that they will develop something beautiful. This is a big deal, and I think the Navy knows this. Im also glad that this is more of a sure thing, I mean they sound so confident about the plans and consturction of the project. Its not like Ballpark Village where you have a so-so feeling about it completion. But we'll just have to wait and see.

Heres and OpEd from the NCT that I found entertaining and informational-

This is your captain speaking

By: JOHN VAN DOORN - Staff Writer

To be thoroughly understood, the story of commercial aviation in the San Diego region requires a highly detailed timeline.

Here it is:

1903: The Wright Brothers get the first heavier-than-air machine off the ground at Kitty Hawk.

1928: Lindbergh Field is dedicated.

2006: Plans to scrap Lindbergh for a spanking new field are up in the air. To put it mildly.

It is no mystery that Lindbergh has grown too small for the traffic it bears. (That's silly. An airfield cannot "grow" too small.) The field has not grown, is what is meant here, and is therefore too small for the phenomenal amount of air traffic it accommodates --- 17 million passengers last year alone. That's OK for the time being, but by 2020 it will be squeezeville. Projections have it that 30 million travelers will use the airport by then.

Thus, in the last three years, a panel breathlessly called the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority has been searching for a new site somewhere in the, ah, region that would suit all hands.

The site, were one to be found, would presumably be bigger than Lindbergh, sporting two 12,000-foot runways from which San Diego could reach out ever-more effectively to the global economy. And at which San Diego could welcome all those tourists in which it takes such a delight.

Don't laugh: Of the 17 million passengers that arrived at Lindbergh last year (Observer himself can vouch for only three), 54 percent were tourists.

Now comes the rub ---- and the rub and the rub. While the authority's mandate told it to look everywhere, including at the military bases that hold a lot of flat real estate in these parts, it has not yet settled on any one. Neither does it appear to have settled on several.

The panel's wish list included, and includes again, three military spots: Camp Pendleton, North Island Naval Air Station and the Miramar Marine Corps Air Station. The Marine Corps Recruit Depot, which is right next to Lindbergh, has also been included, but it seems an afterthought.

At one point the authority backed off when military officers and the odd congressman-en-route-to-disgrace said, "No, you don't; these bases are inviolate. We need them to train. We can't give up any land and we can't let civilians on the property because."

Just a darn minute. Somebody very smart interrupted to say, "Why not move the recruiters from the MCRD on to Camp Pendleton, which is larger than several states in the union and where the recruiters would fit nicely?"

"No, you don't. Pendleton is at war and you can't have any land there."

Not that Pendleton or the military at large has any say in the matter. Neither has the aforementioned ex-congressman, who fell in disgrace for taking bribes and posh commodes and whose initials are something-something Cunningham.

However, the military has influence in these matters, count on it, although the congressman is headed to the brig.

Somebody else very smart remembered, "Back in the 1990s the Marines said to the San Diego mayor, Susan Golding, 'If you'd like to have Miramar for the city, all 24,000 acres, you can have it for a buck and we'll weigh anchor (heh, heh).' But the mayor said, noooo, and so the military kept it." Now it is saying, in effect, go take a long walk on a short pier, which old people in their youth thought was a hilarious wisecrack.

All the land that is needed to build a swell new airport facility is about 4,000 acres. That's a sixth of Miramar. If you've been out there recently, you know that Miramar is vast. It has the appearance of a badly paved Kansas, or one of those other states. It can't possibly use all that room; how many sailors can a Navy stash, anyway?

Meanwhile, the authority will present some information to various committees and commissions to get their advice and counsel. Then in November, when it is required to have reduced all the possibilities to one, it will help put that one on a ballot, and the citizenry will vote on the site.

Except that the vote won't count for anything; it's to be a sense-of-the-electorate sort of gesture.

Know this: All of North County has apparently been ruled out. Next in line could be faraway Imperial County, which is right next to Kansas, and something called Campo, southeast of San Diego.

Insiders, such as our writers Mark Walker and Dave Downey, say that certain influential personages like the idea of a downtown airport, which Lindbergh is, for its convenience and nearness to ---- how shall one say? ---- the action.

With estimable patience last week, Mr. Walker explained to Observer that site selection has been very complex. He went over every step the authority has taken, and all of the steps to come, and all the questions that need answering.

Essentially, they were boring, and Observer thinks you've got the picture.

Poor Lindbergh Field has only about 670 acres. That is not enough. It is in fact nothing in big-time aviation terms. Reminds one of Kitty Hawk.

Observer looks down the runway, and he sees a civilian-military rapprochement. He sees Miramar as Lindbergh's heir. He sees Susan Golding looking sheepish.

Maybe we should just move the city. It looks easier than moving the airport.... :sleepy:

I think east village does not fall under the height restrictions, however, the 1992 community plan had a limit of 500 ft. once the new plan is completed, look for the restriction to dissappear in that portion of downtown and for buildings taller than 500 feet to rise.

As for the complex, although Im slighty worried about what the Navy might propose, I have faith that they will develop something beautiful. This is a big deal, and I think the Navy knows this. Im also glad that this is more of a sure thing, I mean they sound so confident about the plans and consturction of the project. Its not like Ballpark Village where you have a so-so feeling about it completion. But we'll just have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]



You're right on, this will be a big deal.Because is will be part of san diego's "face" (a least from one side) for the future. I've seen nothing yet but already heard mixed thoughts on this project. Some would like the navy to walk away and leave the city to the task. I really don't know who might do a better job with it. But I am worried that the navy might "sell-out" san diego and we get a row of allegro towers to look at in terror. Sweet. What a nightmare that could be. Everybody double-cross your fingers on this project.... :cheers:

I think east village does not fall under the height restrictions, however, the 1992 community plan had a limit of 500 ft. once the new plan is completed, look for the restriction to dissappear in that portion of downtown and for buildings taller than 500 feet to rise.



I really wish sbaumberger looks at this site soon. I want his input on that overlay (if he can explain the layout and areas it covers) and I want to hear his outlook for the airport and what he thinks could be done. I just don't like any of the sites so far (the good ones are bases and the city is dreaming for that to happen) and can't believe as big as san diego is that better sites could not be found. We're not new york yet, I still see open land. Is all of it unfit for use??? :sleepy:

Regarding the Broadway Complex, we all have to agree that whatever is built there, it will be a HUGE improvement to what's there now. Let's just hope that the Navy is working with a world class developer as we speak.


I think east village does not fall under the height restrictions, however, the 1992 community plan had a limit of 500 ft. once the new plan is completed, look for the restriction to dissappear in that portion of downtown and for buildings taller than 500 feet to rise.
I'd love it if you were right!!

We all are trying to find excuses to bypass loopholes around the FAA height restrictions but c'mon folks, this is the FAA we're talking about. I've honestly given up on this issue a long time ago and would rather focus on working with what we've got. We can all dream, but reality bites.

BTW in case anyone missed it, this Harris poll (a major polling company) put out a list of what cities American's would like to live in. SD and California fared pretty well.

Here's the thread:http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=318145

STATES WHERE MOST PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO LIVE - APART FROM THEIR OWN STATE

Question: "If you could live in any state in the country, except the state you live in now, what state would you choose to live in?"

1. California
2. Florida
3. Hawaii
4. Colorado
5. New York
6. Arizona
7. Oregon
8. Texas
9. North Carolina
10. Tennessee
11. Washington
12. Virginia
13. Georgia
14. Alaska
15. Montana

Dropped Out of Top 15 This Year, Nevada (was #12)


TABLE 2

U.S. CITIES PEOPLE WOULD MOST LIKE TO LIVE IN OR NEAR TO

Question:"If you could live in or near any city in the country except the one you live in or nearest to now, which city would you choose?"

1. New York, NY
2. San Diego, CA
3. Las Vegas, NV
4. San Francisco, CA
5. Seattle, WA
6. Chicago, IL
7. Denver, CO
8. Honolulu, HI
9. Atlanta, GA
10. Portland, OR
11. Boston, MA
12. Los Angeles, CA
13. Phoenix, AZ
14. San Antonio, TX
15. Nashville, TN

Cities which dropped out of the list this year,
Orlando (was #12), Tampa & Miami (were tied at #15)

#2. . .we must be doing something right. Any thoughts on this?

Interesting. But I already knew this place was popular. :D

This might be bad though....more people wanting to move into, probably, suburban tract homes...

OR, they might know about downtown, then Im fine, the more condos filled the better. ;)

It's cool to see that even the outsiders think San Diego is an awesome place to live, but we already knew that, right? ;)

I didn't. :(

[QUOTE=mongozx]We all are trying to find excuses to bypass loopholes around the FAA height restrictions but c'mon folks, this is the FAA we're talking about. I've honestly given up on this issue a long time ago and would rather focus on working with what we've got. We can all dream, but reality bites.



I think we all know there is a height limit and are over it. We are just curious what it covers and how it works. With a possible new airport in the future, that rates as a topic as well. I do agree with you about working with what he have here. To be a world class city I am hoping for more signature buildings and areas for this city (such as the one america plaza trolley stop) so that people know what san diego is and looks like. We need more icons that people will reconize here. Thanks too, for that poll info...but,is it me or do some of those choices seem strange? I know people have different tastes but.... :eek2:

Does anyone know if Aperture in little italy and current in cortez hill have started up construction yet? CCDC has them listed as starting last year but due to work and flu bugs I have not been downtown to see if this is correct. Also what is the status of the diegan hotel...how much of it is up now???

^^I recall reading somewhere that Aperture is currently under contruction . Lately, I've seen advertisements for it in various publications around town.

The architect for Current has a construction pic on it's website http://www.hanoverco.com/sub.asp?p=Portfolio Click on Mixed-Use and look for the Current project, then scroll through the thumbnails at the bottom. Looks to me like this one is well on it's way....

I happened to walk by the Diegan a couple of night's ago, and saw that the only thing standing was the shell of the historic building that will be incorporated to it. I didn't see any steel beams yet. This will be a cool-looking tower. :okay:

Ok, has anyone here ever heard of Cortez Pointe? Is it new? Dead? I found this on the architect's website who did Vantage Pointe. It says it will have 452 units in 2 towers (23 & 34 floors, respectively) and it's to be located on the corner of Broadway and 9th Ave.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/cortez01.jpg

I really wish sbaumberger looks at this site soon. I want his input on that overlay (if he can explain the layout and areas it covers) and I want to hear his outlook for the airport and what he thinks could be done. I just don't like any of the sites so far (the good ones are bases and the city is dreaming for that to happen) and can't believe as big as san diego is that better sites could not be found. We're not new york yet, I still see open land. Is all of it unfit for use??? :sleepy:
I go away for a few days and you miss me already :)

I've covered this in more detail in older posts here as well as over at SSP, but here's the short version: the overlay covers all of the CCDC jurisdiction, including ALL of the East Village. The ultimate maximum height of a building within this area is 500' above MSL as already discussed. And there are more strict limitations on what can be built in the direct flight path to/from Lindbergh. Those are the lines in the diagram that was posted recently:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/1735c943.jpg
In addition to the FAA overlay, there are also height limits imposed by the city to maintain sun access to the community parks. Here is a scan from one of the plan update docs (the light blue lines are sun access):
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/cp_chap_4_5-24.jpg
In all cases, the lower height limit governs. Notice that the highest number on the sun access lines is 500, and also note that the airport approach zone lines are MSL.

In other words, Downtown San Diego will NOT be seeing a new building more than 500 feet tall as long as Lindbergh is operational.

As far as a new airport goes, as I've said before, the only site on the table that makes any sense at all is Miramar. The other contenders are pretty ludicrous IMO. Barring a huge breaktrough with the NIMBY's, if San Diego can't pull off some sort of joint use at Miramar then I think the city is doomed to rot as businesses will certainly flee without a decent airport closeby.

Sterlling, check out the following links for more info on the airport site selection process:
http://www.sandiegobusiness.org/airport.asp
http://www.san.org/authority/assp/index.asp
http://www.asap21.net/

Ok, has anyone here ever heard of Cortez Pointe? Is it new? Dead? I found this on the architect's website who did Vantage Pointe. It says it will have 452 units in 2 towers (23 & 34 floors, respectively) and it's to be located on the corner of Broadway and 9th Ave.Dead and buried, and so is Pacific Pointe from what I hear.

Both Aperture and Current are under construction.

Having seen some of the proposals for NBC, my biggest fear is that the office & hotel markets won't be able to support this project of this size. I think the designs are all pretty good (no Allegro's), but if there are no tenants then the surface lots will remain. Hopefully, the development team can get moving soon and the buildings will fill up.

Pacific Pointe no longer to be built? Darn! :|

The navy better do this right, I have high expectations. And thanks for the reality check sbaumberger, see what happens when your gone?..for a few days...pathetic I know.

As for Cortez Pointe thats no loss either. Cosmo, BPV, NBC, anything office or hotel and the Bosa projects are all I need to be happy.

A Historic Pain in the Rear

By WILL CARLESS
Voice Staff Writer
Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2006

The drawings of Pacific Pointe, a proposed development in the East Village neighborhood of downtown San Diego, look pretty spectacular. In the artist's renderings, the building, 40 stories of blue glass, concrete and steel, thrusts its modernity proudly into the blue sky, dwarfing the modest structures below it.

But on the land where that edifice may eventually sit, there's a problem.

A decrepit, filth-encrusted two-story wooden hotel is standing in the way of the 409-unit condo project that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The project is on hold while lawyers, architects and historians argue over what should be done about the squalid structure that has been designated a historical site by the city's Historical Resources Board.

Similar stories are playing out across downtown as developers and preservationists walk the fine line between the development and destruction of downtown. Officials said at least six projects have been held up by the historical designation process, a process that some critics said has been a cumbersome hurdle for developers to pass.

The question of whether or not a building should be given historical designation falls to the city's Historical Resources Board.

This panel of 15 unelected experts, appointed by the mayor, assesses each building for its architectural or historical significance. Board members explained that they consider the aesthetics of a structure, who designed it, who lived there, and what role the building played in the city's history when determining if it has historical worth.

"San Diego should be representative of every period of development, we shouldn't have entire decades or generations that are no longer visible or relevant," said David Marshall, a member of the board and a prominent preservation architect.

Board members said they work to preserve not just the grand old buildings that are aesthetically pleasing, but also buildings that were used by everyday San Diegans and that are representative of a certain space in time.

The grubby, rather nondescript wooden hotel on 11th Avenue was built to accommodate visitors who flocked to San Diego for the Panama-California Exposition of 1915 -- the same event that gave birth to Balboa Park.

That's why it is deemed worthy of saving, said Laura Burnett, the board's vice president.
It is important to consider not the condition of the building, she said, but what the structure represents in historical terms.

"There are some really good examples of what I thought of as a really crappy little building being made into a wonderful part of the city," Burnett said.

So, after a developer has spent tens of millions of dollars on land, designs for a glamorous condo development and advertising, they are now left dealing with the revelation of a historical building slap-bang in the middle of their lot.

Asked how the developers of Pacific Pointe got into such a situation, the developers' architect said they had faced a similar scenario with a previous project in San Diego. That time, they got around the problem easily, he said. This time, it's proving a bit more difficult.

"We assumed that it would be the same process getting rid of this building," said Jason Bright, the lead architect for Pacific Pointe.

He said the number of people interested in preserving downtown has increased significantly in recent years, which has made it more difficult for developers to "get rid" of historic buildings that are in the way of their high-rise towers.

Historical Resources Board members said that's true to some extent, but stressed that the process for finding out whether there could be a potential issue with a historical building has actually become easier with time.

The Centre City Development Corp. has been working with architects and historians for the last 20 years to catalog the historic buildings in downtown, said Brad Richter, the principal planner at CCDC. However, they haven't yet completed a historical review of the East Village, where the Pacific Pointe Development is planned, he said.

Marie Lia, an attorney who helps to shepherd developers through the planning process, said the absence of such a historical review doesn't mean developers can't find out if there is a potentially historic building on the land where they plan to build.

Developers can conduct initial reviews of the site, and can work with CCDC to assess whether a site has historical significance, Lia said. In the event that they identify a historic building, developers can work with the city's Planning Department to incorporate the existing building into their design. That happened with the Electra development at the foot of Broadway. Alternatively, they can attempt to convince the city that the historic building is not worth saving.

Or they can move the offending building.

That's what Pointe of View, the developers who planned Pacific Pointe, have decided is probably the best solution to their problem. If they go ahead with the project at all, the developers have decided to literally lift the 19th-Century wooden hotel and move it around the corner to an adjacent lot, thus preserving the building's historical integrity.

But critics of CCDC's historical-designation policy argued that expensive solutions such as moving a building should never have to be resorted to. They said that in the face of such government regulation, it should have been easier for a developer like Pointe of View to establish whether they are going to face historical designation problems.

"Everyone -- from CCDC to the private property owners, to the San Diego City Council -- everyone agrees what's being done now is too old, and needs to be revised," said Matthew Adams, vice president of governmental affairs at the Building Industry Association of San Diego County.

The historical designation guidelines have been considerably overhauled in the new downtown community plan, which the City Council will consider on Feb. 28.

Adams said the community plan should make it easier for developers to guide their way through the tangle of government regulations in many ways, not the least of which is the simplification of the rules concerning historical designation.

But representatives of the Historical Resource Board and CCDC argued that the hold up at Pacific Pointe and other projects is due simply to the inexperience of certain developers doing work in downtown. Most developers have been able to negotiate the process without a problem, they said, and a company simply needs to do its due diligence properly to avoid any historical designation hiccups.

As for Pacific Pointe, the developer said he has already entertained an offer for the land. But that sale was thwarted by his historical-designation issues, he said, and until he gets those issues sorted out, he can't proceed with either selling the land or building on it.

Please contact Will Carless directly at will.carless
I hope Pacific Pointe wasn't cancelled because of the situation in this recent article. I was curious to see more renderings of this project.

Here is a scan from one of the plan update docs (the light blue lines are sun access):
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/cp_chap_4_5-24.jpg

Cool map! I'm glad to see more green space coming to the core, and this map doesn't even include the huge promenade planned for the Embarcadero. Did you notice all of the green space covering the 5? How awesome will that be?!? :okay:

As for Cortez Pointe thats no loss either. Cosmo, BPV, NBC, anything office or hotel and the Bosa projects are all I need to be happy.

What's NBC?

Naval Broadway Complex

I go away for a few days and you miss me already :)


In all cases, the lower height limit governs. Notice that the highest number on the sun access lines is 500, and also note that the airport approach zone lines are MSL.

In other words, Downtown San Diego will NOT be seeing a new building more than 500 feet tall as long as Lindbergh is operational.

According to the Community Plan Update from the CCDC website, which u got the lower map of the height limits, there WILL BE NO HEIGHT LIMIT. i admit that im not completely sure that the 500 height limit will still apply to all of downtown, but the reason im so skeptic of that happening as u said is that it is explicitly stated in the plan update that there will be no height limit. If there still was a 500 foot height limit, i think they would have mentioned it in the plan. And it still makes no sense to me even from the FAA's point of view because the airplanes do not directly fly over any part of downtown, but just really close to it. referring to the skyline, it reads:

"Skyline
Many exciting new buildings are helping to shape downtown's skyline, giving the area an iconic facade when viewed from afar. The tallest buildings in downtown are 500 feet tall, concentrated in the financial core, as well as in newer hotels along the waterfront. However, with many new tall residential buildings underway, the downtown skyline is increasingly dispersed. While the Community Plan Update does not place limitations on maximum attainable building heights in downtown, by creating two zones of concentrated very high intensity, (see Section 3.2 Development Intensity and Incentives, and Plan Buildout), the Plan will establish a more defined yet variegated skyline, giving focus points to the eye when gazing at the new wall of sparkling architecture rising up behind the bay."

for proof go here: http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/CCPDO_2nd%20notice1.pdf
and CCDC website

The Community Plan may not, but the FAA most likely does.

"Skyline
Many exciting new buildings are helping to shape downtown's skyline, giving the area an iconic facade when viewed from afar. The tallest buildings in downtown are 500 feet tall, concentrated in the financial core, as well as in newer hotels along the waterfront. However, with many new tall residential buildings underway, the downtown skyline is increasingly dispersed. While the Community Plan Update does not place limitations on maximum attainable building heights in downtown, by creating two zones of concentrated very high intensity, (see Section 3.2 Development Intensity and Incentives, and Plan Buildout), the Plan will establish a more defined yet variegated skyline, giving focus points to the eye when gazing at the new wall of sparkling architecture rising up behind the bay."
It's nice to see that even our civic leaders can see the potential of our skyline. :) But as we've heard and read before, the FAA's maximum height limit of 500 feet overrides anything that has the community plan might suggest. :(

Trust me, I wish it was the other way around.

sbaumberger -

We're waiting anxiously to see your Mondrian rendering. ;)

Yeah, what has sbaumberger done for us lately ? ;)

^^ :laugh:


According to this article about the new Hilton, it's going to be an amazing hotel! -



JOHN PORTMAN & ASSOCIATES UNVEIL DESIGN ELEMENTS NEW 1,190-ROOM HILTON SAN DIEGO CONVENTION CENTER HOTEL

http://www.portmanusa.com/work_in_progress/imgs/w_sandiego_hilton.jpg

One of Largest Hotels to Begin Construction in 2006

ATLANTA, Feb. 21 /PRNewswire/ -- John Portman & Associates, Inc. (Portman) today unveiled details of its innovative design for a unique urban resort -- the new 1,190-room Hilton San Diego Convention Center Hotel that has just broken ground. Officials believe it will be one of the largest hotels to begin construction in the U.S. in 2006, with a construction budget of $230 million and innovative design that creates a resort atmosphere in the center of a major city.

Advantageously located at the intersection of Harbor Drive and Park Boulevard (formerly Eighth Avenue) on the San Diego Bay, adjacent to the San Diego Convention Center and across from Petco Park, the 30-story hotel's design also features upscale retail shops and four food and beverage outlets, including a spectacular waterfront restaurant. Other amenities include a business center, meeting and conference facilities, ballrooms and a health club/spa.

Walt Miller, vice president for John Portman & Associates, noted that the hotel promises a memorable experience unique to San Diego. "From the very beginning of the design process, our goal was to create a hotel that would become a true urban resort, taking full advantage of the outstanding views," he said.

Special attention was devoted to the hotel's entrance and "sense of place." The entrance is elevated, literally and figuratively, heightening the arrival experience and giving the main lobby and meeting areas amazing panoramas of the bay, the surrounding 4.3-acre public park, the city skyline, landmark Padres ballpark and historic Gaslamp Quarter. Raising the guest disembarkation area one floor above the street level, also discreetly directs traffic away from the adjacent park and allows the ground-level restaurant and retail outlets situated underneath the hotel lobby to provide pedestrian access to the waterfront. Through the unique stacking of public functions, the design makes the most of the scenic area by stepping back the major ballroom levels to create open landscaped terraces overlooking the water. Even something as mundane as providing egress from the ballrooms is handled in an artful, experiential way by enlivening the design with corkscrew staircases that are open to the waterfront.

In addition to the waterfront views, the 10.2-acre site will showcase a new 4.3-acre landscaped public park. Portman has retained landscape architects Sasaki Associates for the design of the park. The park will be enhanced with more than $2 million of public works of art, and will be the termination point of the Balboa Park Corridor that links Balboa Park to the San Diego Bay. Adding to the resort-like atmosphere, a broad public promenade will connect the hotel development with the waterfront and the rest of South Embarcadero, providing open space for informal gatherings and special events.

Portman is well-known for the revitalization of urban centers, but this project also incorporates the characteristics of an urban resort. Miller explained, "Except, perhaps, for a rooftop restaurant or lounge, the urban hotel is typically focused inward on the interior experience. This hotel is unique in that, although it is on a decidedly urban site, the setting along the bay and the climate of San Diego permit us to make the most of a variety of exciting exterior spaces and bring the delights of nature into the hotel experience. There are few things that equal the impact of being along the water and drinking in the view."

The design allows a very large hotel to elegantly exist on an extremely compact site. In keeping with the context and character of the area, the solid portions of the hotel tower and stacked ballrooms are similar in color and texture to the adjacent convention center. The hotel tower facade rises to feature large areas of glass and terminates in a distinctive cutout top which provides an articulated transition to the sky. Extensive greenery brings the lushness of the park onto the expansive terraces and balconies of the hotel. John Portman & Associates is working with associate architects Joseph Wong Design Associates on the hotel. The two firms also teamed on the corresponding 2,000-car parking structure previously built on the site to serve the hotel, convention center and ballpark.

In late January, the Unified Port of San Diego and co-developers Portman Holdings and Phelps Development, as well as the hotel's owners/operators Hilton Hotels Corporation and ING Clarion Partners, held the official ground- breaking. Construction by Hensel Phelps Construction is scheduled for completion in late 2008.

It's nice to see that even our civic leaders can see the potential of our skyline. :) But as we've heard and read before, the FAA's maximum height limit of 500 feet overrides anything that has the community plan might suggest. :(

Trust me, I wish it was the other way around.

Yea i know, but if the FAA couldn't at all be negotiated with, what is all this I hear on the CCDC website about them asking the FAA to change some of the restrictions on the height limits. And why wouldn't the COmmunity plan mention that there was STILL a 500 foot limit? And why are there CLEARLY buildings well over 500 feet in the illustrations of what the future San Diego may look like? I dont know, i guess it doesn't really matter..

and that's great to hear that the hotel has so many amenities and views of the bay, and a great park...i just wish the architecture could be A LOT more exciting and the developers would put as much effort to making the exterior look as good as they're planning the inside to.

Yea i know, but if the FAA couldn't at all be negotiated with, what is all this I hear on the CCDC website about them asking the FAA to change some of the restrictions on the height limits. And why wouldn't the COmmunity plan mention that there was STILL a 500 foot limit? And why are there CLEARLY buildings well over 500 feet in the illustrations of what the future San Diego may look like? I dont know, i guess it doesn't really matter..According to the Community Plan Update from the CCDC website, which u got the lower map of the height limits, there WILL BE NO HEIGHT LIMIT. i admit that im not completely sure that the 500 height limit will still apply to all of downtown, but the reason im so skeptic of that happening as u said is that it is explicitly stated in the plan update that there will be no height limit. If there still was a 500 foot height limit, i think they would have mentioned it in the plan. And it still makes no sense to me even from the FAA's point of view because the airplanes do not directly fly over any part of downtown, but just really close to it. referring to the skyline, it reads: "Skyline
Many exciting new buildings are helping to shape downtown's skyline, giving the area an iconic facade when viewed from afar. The tallest buildings in downtown are 500 feet tall, concentrated in the financial core, as well as in newer hotels along the waterfront. However, with many new tall residential buildings underway, the downtown skyline is increasingly dispersed. While the Community Plan Update does not place limitations on maximum attainable building heights in downtown, by creating two zones of concentrated very high intensity, (see Section 3.2 Development Intensity and Incentives, and Plan Buildout), the Plan will establish a more defined yet variegated skyline, giving focus points to the eye when gazing at the new wall of sparkling architecture rising up behind the bay."We've gone over this a million times - CCDC can do whatever they want but as long as Lindbergh is operational, the FAA's height limits will be in effect and as I mentioned, will govern in ALL cases. Yes, the city has tried to negotiate with the FAA to relax the limits in the immediate vicinity of the runway - this would be a couple sites up near Sassafras St - but that hardly constitutes a concerted effort on the part of the city or CCDC to waive the 500' cap downtown.

The FAA restrictions may not make sense to us but they still govern anyway. As I understand it, and I've said this before many times, the reason for the cap over all of downtown is that in an emergency, a plane approaching Lindbergh would be diverted to the south (over downtown) instead of to the north (over Banker's Hill, having a higher elevation).

for proof go here: http://www.ccdc.com/events/resource...d%20notice1.pdf
and CCDC websiteYes, this is proof that CCDC is thinking about taller buildings in the event that Lindbergh is shut down. CCDC's plan update is intended to be in effect until at least 2025 - so it's just smart planning to allow for the possibility, however remote, that Lindbergh will be shut down during that time period. The plan update in NO WAY will ever override FAA's height limits. Is that clear enough?

If you want to get excited about the plan update, that's great, but please let's stick to the facts. I'd really like to see the forum stay on topic and focus more on projects, health of the markets, development, etc. instead of re-hashing the airport thing every couple months. If you want to stay up to date on the Airport ballot, check out the links I posted earlier - and if something new happens, by all means post it, but this is the same old tired stuff.

and that's great to hear that the hotel has so many amenities and views of the bay, and a great park...i just wish the architecture could be A LOT more exciting and the developers would put as much effort to making the exterior look as good as they're planning the inside to.I'm with you here - this project is a retread of the 1970's specials perpetrated by Portman's office. San Diego, as well as Detroit and Atlanta for that matter, needs buildings that relate to the pedestrian scale and add something to the urban fabric instead of retreating into a cold atrium. The "urban resort" concept is nonsense, and has been proven so over the last thirty years. If you want to build a resort, go to Mission Bay. A downtown hotel needs to be more integrated and respectful of its surroundings.

I love this quote, "Except, perhaps, for a rooftop restaurant or lounge, the urban hotel is typically focused inward on the interior experience." Again, nonsense - all you have to do is look at other successful hotels here in San Diego to see how false this is. Or how about this one, "Portman is well-known for the revitalization of urban centers." Which urban centers would that be exactly? Detroit's RenCen had to be renovated twice since it opened in 1978, including a recent $500 million makeover. Any vitality in downtown Detroit is certainly not due to RenCen, and the same could be said for Portman's work in Atlanta and San Francisco.

Did you notice all of the green space covering the 5? How awesome will that be?!?CCDC has proposed lidding over the 5 fwy between 1st and 8th Sts, and between Market & J Sts. It will be interesting to see how they intend to pay for it though. :(

Yeah, what has sbaumberger done for us lately ?Yeah, I know - we just need for the renderings to be made public before I can post anything here. Soon I promise. :)

I'd really like to see the forum stay on topic and focus more on projects, health of the markets, development, etc. instead of re-hashing the airport thing every couple months. If you want to stay up to date on the Airport ballot, check out the links I posted earlier - and if something new happens, by all means post it, but this is the same old tired stuff.[Quote]



I brought this up in the forum because I missed the earlier posts about it and knew about the height limit but was just interested in some more details about it, not starting a debate. Now I'm sorry I even brought up the subject. Yes, let's focus more on any new projects,etc...Anyone out there have any news to report on some new projects? I hear oceanside is considering to make a bid for a new chargers stadium... :)

If you're into fluff articles like me ;), here's one on the new Hard Rock you might enjoy -



Ashlee Simpson, Carmen Electra, Hoobastank, Ying Yang Twins and Benji Madden Rocked Exclusive Party to Launch New Hard Rock Condo-Hotel in San Diego

Unrivaled Event Helps Boost Interest in Condo Sales

SAN DIEGO, Feb. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- On Thursday, February 16, 2006, San
Diego proved it's ready to rock. Hard Rock Hotel San Diego, the city's first
branded condo-hotel kicked off condo sales with an evening sure to keep San
Diego buzzing. Ashlee Simpson, Carmen Electra, Hoobastank, the Ying Yang
Twins and Benji Madden led the evening's festivities at a high-profile,
all-out event held in the heart of San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter.

Simpson and Electra led the red carpet scene in front of a hoard of
screaming fans and the world's top media. They both served as the party's
hosts and introduced the incredible line-up of talent to roaring applause from
the crowd. The chart-topping show opened with a selection of party favorites
from Atlanta's rap duo, the Ying Yang Twins. Hoobastank, the platinum-selling
rock band, followed and treated Hard Rock Hotel guests to an exclusive preview
of their hot, new music. This was their first live performance since the
release of their third album. Benji Madden, lead guitarist of the band Good
Charlotte, was on the turntables playing a selection of 80's, hip hop and rock
to a fashionable and energetic crowd of the young and young-at-heart. Other
guests that came out to party included celebrities Macy Gray, Shane West,
Andrew Keegan, Vincent Young, Ryan Key of Yellowcard, Duff McKagan, Matt Sorum
and Dave Kushner of Velvet Revolver, Kassim Osgood and Shawne Merriman of the
San Diego Chargers.

The party's hosts were so impressed with the party that they are both in
talks with Hard Rock Hotel San Diego to design one of the 15 rock star suites.
Each to be fashioned by a different celebrity designer, Ashlee Simpson
mentioned that her suite would be a "Surfer Chick" theme, complete with bamboo
accents, tiki torch lights and a personally-signed surfboard hanging on the
wall. Carmen Electra, on the other hand, has plans to create a "Rock Star
Goddess" suite filled with lots of candles, sexy satin sheets, a heart-shaped
bath tub and a stripper pole for the late night seductress.

Filled with Hollywood's elite and San Diego's top influentials, the Hard
Rock Hotel San Diego offered first-class, VIP treatment to all 1,500-plus
guests that attended its private celebration. Remaining faithful to its
long-standing corporate motto "Love All, Serve All," guests enjoyed an
explosive atmosphere with flowing signature drinks, custom ice sculptures, and
attentive model-like wait staff dressed in edgy, Hard Rock gear. The Hard
Rock Hotel San Diego captured the appeal and excitement of the music
industry's best known icon by transforming a large, popular nightclub into a
sleek, sexy party space, giving party-goers a taste for what's to come.

"We want to bring a whole new level of entertainment and style to San
Diego," said Greg Casserly, President of Tarsadia Hotels, the operator. "The
party featured the same trademark rock 'n' roll attitude and impulsive energy
for which Hard Rock Hotels are famous. We are extremely excited to make our
initial mark in this city with an unforgettable, jaw-dropping event."

Since that night, the sales center has been flooded with condo reservation
requests. The 12-story, 420 unit condo-hotel, is currently under construction
and expected to open in Spring 2007. Like the event itself, the Hard Rock
Hotel San Diego will define modern standards of luxury and cool. Located in
the heart of the party scene, at the corner of Fifth Avenue and L Street, the
Hard Rock Hotel San Diego will offer both owners and hotel guests a unique
experience combined with 24/7 service and high-octane nightlife yet scene in
Downtown San Diego.

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Delete, double post

Isn't it a little late to still be discussing concerns in the new community plan? Everything should have been ironed out by now. News from today's paper -


Downtown Development Road Map Hits Unexpected Bump

By Martin Stolz
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

February 23, 2006

San Diego's long-delayed road map for downtown development took a swift and unwelcome turn this week, days before its City Council hearing, scheduled for Tuesday.

The downtown Community Plan update has been slowly wending its way toward completion after nearly four years and countless public meetings. Among its chief objectives are to create neighborhood parks, build affordable housing and encourage higher-density housing in towers.

The current plan, updated in 1992, never anticipated the redevelopment changes wrought by downtown's transformation from a state of woe to a residential area. With the updated plan, downtown's population would balloon from 27,000 now to 90,000 residents by 2030.

What threw the plan off kilter, several sources said yesterday, was the recent discovery that parks promised in the plan could cost the city more than $80 million – an apparently unanticipated expense.

Developers have begun negotiating with city officials, including Mayor Jerry Sanders, about new development fees to cover the parks. The new fees could slow downtown's redevelopment, affect the region's economy and increase housing pressure in other parts of the county.

Yesterday, Sanders, city staff members and prominent developers spent hours in private talks in the mayor's office. Those emerging afterward acknowledged that the plan faced unexpected difficulties, though most would not specify what the problems or solutions might be.

Kevin Casey, vice president of the San Diego Downtown Partnership, said last night that the eleventh-hour changes upset developers because the plan came about “through a very open and public process.”

Still, Casey said, “the development community is stepping forward and volunteering to pay for this.”

The Centre City Development Corp., which advises the council on downtown planning and redevelopment, prepared the Community Plan with input from interest groups, developers, residents and surrounding communities.

The council is facing pressure to insert language into the plan about jobs, project reviews, parking requirements and infrastructure, all of which are likely to spur debate.

The plan's mechanism for creating parks calls for identifying sites and encouraging those property owners to sell their development rights.

Nancy Graham, the CCDC's president, described yesterday's meetings as “positive discussions” but did not elaborate. Graham left the mayor's office with Fredric Maas, vice chairman of the CCDC board. Graham did not return calls last night for comment.

Larry Clemens, president of Lennar's urban division, attended yesterday's meeting and another with a larger group of developers Tuesday.

“We have concerns,” Clemens said outside the mayor's office.

Sanders found “certain problems” with the plan and “started looking for solutions,” spokesman Fred Sainz said. Not solving the problems before Tuesday's council meeting could “potentially derail the entire downtown Community Plan,” Sainz said.

Alan Gin, a real estate economist at the University of San Diego, said higher development fees downtown could have a ripple effect across the region and “shift (development) pressure outward toward other communities.”

“I saw that market as vulnerable already, so that could make the situation even worse,” Gin said.

Councilman Jim Madaffer said last-minute changes to the plan “could be the beginning of the end for the plan, and we could see it implode on itself.”

“The mayor needs to respect the public process,” Madaffer said.

Councilman Kevin Faulconer, who represents downtown, attended some of yesterday's talks in Sanders' office after a council committee meeting.

Faulconer said he has “focused solely on the financials” to ensure adequate park funding so “we'll actually get these parks.”

While the plan update sets policy goals and objectives, it cannot dictate specific projects. Building heights, densities and other development policies are contained in documents that accompany the Community Plan.

The Oceanside idea for a charger stadium isn't serious. Three of the five current members of the city council are skeptical if not dead against it.

The Oceanside idea for a charger stadium isn't serious. Three of the five current members of the city council are skeptical if not dead against it.




I wouldn't be surprised if your right. Still, I remember when people said the padres would never get a new stadium in downtown.They were looking at the lane field area and some people thought the whole idea was a joke. For now at least, it is kind of fun to see some of the ideas being tossed around for a new chargers stadium and a new airport. I guess in about 12 months from now we'll all have a better idea if the chargers stay in town and if we'll get any 500+ft. in downtown in the future... :soon:

Hell, if Oceanside can build a new football stadium, I'd be fine if they change the name to the "O'side Chargers". Just a long as they stay in the County ;)

Finally, here are the seven views of the proposed Mondrian project located on the full block bounded by 8th & 9th, A & B Sts.:

Overall view from northwest (Vantage Pointe in background left):
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 1.jpg

Overall view from southeast:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 2.jpg

Blowup view of southeast corner 1:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 4.jpg

Blowup view of southeast corner 2:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 5.jpg

Blowup view of southwest corner:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 6.jpg

Blowup view of northwest corner:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 7.jpg

Blowup view of northeast corner:
http://www.baumbergerstudio.com/view 8.jpg

[QUOTE=sbaumberger]Finally, here are the seven views of the proposed Mondrian project located on the full block bounded by 8th & 9th, A & B Sts.:



It looks much better now than the first photo I saw of it.Should be a plus for the SD skyline.It breaks ground when...? and should be finished when...? :okay:

Hey, in that top photo is it going in a broadway 655 type arch? or is it just the angle of the photo?? :hm:

And could you explain the cities height limit one more time...(hey-hey)...just kidding...I heard it has 33,000ft. retail. What is the single largest unit of retail going to be (ft., wise,that is)? :baeh3:

Hell, if Oceanside can build a new football stadium, I'd be fine if they change the name to the "O'side Chargers". Just a long as they stay in the County ;)



How about the san diego north county oceanside chargers...or the oceanside chargers who play in the north san diego county...or wait I know, the california chargers of southern california of san diego of oceanside....now, what will we call their stadium??? :puke:

Once again, great renderings, sbaumberger :)

To be honest, I don't mind side with the pointed glass, but the other side leaves much to be desired. That side looks like the Radisson Hotel next to the 5 Freeway, which isn't a good thing. I don't understand why they didn't incorporate more glass into that side? The base of it looks fine. Also, you can tell it's a massive building. 850+ units, right? In in all, it's not a building that makes me go "WOW!".


Hey, in that top photo is it going in a broadway 655 type arch? or is it just the angle of the photo??

This rendering shows that it does rise to a point in one corner.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/MondrianSM.jpg

Mondrian is COOL! :okay:

what are the chances of it being built?

the building is HUGE, and it looks sweet. The point is indeed a point that comes to a pennicle at the corner of the building. at least that is what it looks like to me. the rest looks great too. the bottom floors look real nice, and i like how it is on a slope too. very cool.

great renderings!

the building is HUGE, and it looks sweet. The point is indeed a point that comes to a pennicle at the corner of the building. at least that is what it looks like to me. the rest looks great too. the bottom floors look real nice, and i like how it is on a slope too. very cool.

great renderings!

I really like the bottom, or base of the building. It kind of reminds me of a lot of the mid-rises they are constructing in the east village. As for the rest of the building...ehh. Im really not sure I can say to much because I don't have an approprite feeling of its true scale. For some reason, with some of these renderings (which are all beautiful sbaumberger, great work) the building looks like a giant block. Being so close to the Symphony tower will probably throw things off scale. I mean it will look so fat. Then again, I haven't see any other views that would make this observation true or false.

What are its chances, by the way, for being built?

Again, these are very nice renderings, thank you for sharing them. :)

Those are great renderings, thanks Scott.

Looks like someone whacked it with a hatchet and the handle broke off... like SDfan, I dig the base. Is that base section of glass on the east side some sort of atrium or glass bridge?

A bit too fat for my liking, but nice nonetheless

how tall is it?

For some reason, with some of these renderings (which are all beautiful sbaumberger, great work) the building looks like a giant block. Being so close to the Symphony tower will probably throw things off scale. I mean it will look so fat.
I agree with you here. Even at 500' above mean sea level, the building is so massive that it will look more bulky and squatty than it really is. It would probably look better if they scaled-back on the number of units, that way the tower might look slimmer and less imposing. Either way, it will not only add density and height to the core but also extend the skyline further east. I definitely like that it will incorporate 33,000sf of retail/commericial space.

News bits from today's paper -



I'm all for parks being built downtown, but might this discourage developers from building downtown? At least there's more support on the plan from the city council, since ultimately they're the ones who will have to give it the okay.


SANDERS, DEVELOPERS AGREE ON PARK FUND

Height variance to pay for downtown open space

By Martin Stolz
STAFF WRITER FOR THE UNION-TRIBUNE

February 25, 2006

Downtown developers could pay at least $100 million to buy land for parks, under last-minute revisions to a long-delayed document that would guide redevelopment in San Diego's core for the next 25 years.

After a week of meetings with developers and redevelopment officials, Mayor Jerry Sanders detailed the changes yesterday. Under Sanders' plan, which goes before the City Council on Tuesday, developers would be allowed to build more floors than currently allowed onto their high rises at a price: $15 per square foot.

With more than 6 million square feet of space for sale, the purchase program would produce at least $100 million for the city to buy land for downtown parks, officials said.

The changes would be added to the proposed Downtown Community Plan, a document last updated in 1992.

The change was necessitated after officials this week discovered they were short $90 million to acquire and build the six small parks called for in the document. After four days of intense talks with city officials, developers agreed on the $15 price, Sanders said.

“Nobody wants to pay more, but I think everybody saw the need to pay money,” he said. “That's where the group kind of coalesced.”

The plan would add about 9 acres of parks, for a total of 120 acres.

City Councilman Kevin Faulconer, who represents downtown, said the promised parks are the plan's “central component as we move forward over the next 10 and 20 years.”

“This is a great opportunity, one that didn't exist before,” he said. “I want to get these parks.”

In preparing for Tuesday's council meeting, Nancy Graham, the president of the Centre City Development Corp., and her staff discovered the funding shortfall, said CCDC board chairwoman Jennifer LeSar. Why it was not discovered sooner is unknown.

Sanders said the “exponential” escalation of real estate values over the past four years would have made it impossible to buy the parkland promised in the plan without the $15-per-square-foot purchase plan.

Downtown's 1992 Community Plan envisioned about 50,000 residents when downtown is fully built, in 2030.

Discussion began in 2002 about increasing downtown's density to alleviate the region's housing shortage. The updated plan calls for downtown's population to grow from 27,000 residents to 90,000 by 2030, and the number of workers to increase from 75,000 to 165,000.

The proposed changes in the updated plan would double the amount of built space in downtown, from 53 million to 106 million square feet, said Garry Papers, CCDC's manager for architecture and planning.

Most of downtown's maximum density would be achieved through incentive programs that encourage affordable housing and offices, and other programs that produce “social goods,” LeSar said.

One of the primary mechanisms envisioned under the plan for creating parks is the transfer of development rights, a program where property owners take development rights from a parcel slated to be a park, and then use them on another site.

Even with the policy changes, the plan would create the same potential for development, but the programs would work as “incentives and not disincentives,” said Fredic Maas, a developer and CCDC's vice chairman.

“Instead of it being a free lunch, it's pay as you go,” Maas said.

The $100 million figure for parkland purchases is a “conservative” figure, Maas said.

Planning Commissioner Carolyn Chase, one of the plan's most vocal critics, called the proposed change “great and important.”

That's not to say the plan remains free from criticism. Opponents have said the plan does not adequately address affordable housing, transportation and infrastructure. Some groups are seeking to insert language about the quality of jobs to be created downtown and change CCDC's role in project reviews. Others have dubbed the plan a “giveaway” for developers.

Chase, who supports the plan's potential for “smart growth,” has questioned the analysis of the document, its long-term costs to taxpayers and its environmental report.

At the Planning Commission's final hearing on the plan in January, commissioners passed a three-page motion in support of the plan, though the comments point to unanswered questions about parks, affordable housing, infrastructure and other elements.

Joyce Summer, president of the Centre City Advisory Committee, downtown's elected planning group, said the committee could not support the mayor's changes to the plan. Her group voted on and supports the previous version.

The city's Office of the Independent Budget Analyst issued a report this week that states that “CCDC does not address these fiscal impacts or any funding solutions in their Downtown Community Plan.”

After raising 10 questions about the plan, the report concludes that “many fiscal issues need to be identified for the City Council, and (sic) so that a policy decision can be reached.”

Other goals of the proposed community plan would preserve historic structures, create neighborhood centers and encourage the use of public transit.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Looks like we'll be crossing off the military bases from the short list of possible airport sites :(


NAVY BOSS SAYS NO TO CIVILIAN BASE USE

Local panel to discuss Miramar airport plan

By Jeff Ristine
STAFF WRITER FOR UNTION-TRIBUNE

February 25, 2006

The Pentagon yesterday issued its highest-level opposition yet to the proposed use of any San Diego military installation for a civilian airport, a message that comes even as consultants unveiled an “outside-the-box” concept for collaborative operations at Miramar air station.

In a letter to a congresswoman, Secretary of the Navy Donald C. Winter flatly rejected proposals for joint use at Miramar, Camp Pendleton and North Island Naval Air Station.

“National defense requirements preclude making any portion of these installations available for a new or dual use commercial airport,” Winter said in his letter to U.S. Rep. Susan A. Davis, D-San Diego.

The message came just three days before a briefing to a San Diego County Regional Airport Authority committee on the concepts consultants have developed for civilian facilities at the three military installations. A fourth site, East Miramar, is poised to fall off the list of airport options because of unsuitable terrain.

One notion, representing the analysts' best effort at a win-win solution, calls for a military-only runway at Camp Pendleton to free up airspace for civilian operations at a joint-use Miramar.

But the “paradigm shift,” as the consultants are calling it, has its own set of challenges.

For starters, it requires the Marines to move their simulated carrier landing practice, a key activity at Miramar, to the new airstrip proposed for the south side of Camp Pendleton. It would also push five miles of Interstate 15 and a smaller segment of state Route 163 to the east.

Consultants from Ricondo & Associates say that's what it would take to make joint use feasible at Miramar, which for some is the perennial dream site to someday replace Lindbergh Field. The Ricondo concept provides two 12,000-foot runways at Miramar, the configuration airport boosters believe will be needed by about 2021 to handle increasing passenger and air cargo demand for the region.

The concept has not yet been subjected to the same rigorous technical analysis already applied to the two remote civilian sites still in the running as replacements for Lindbergh Field, East County's Boulevard and the Yuha Desert of southwestern Imperial County.

William D. Lynch, an executive member of the airport authority board, said the Department of Defense's continuing opposition to joint use does not make the idea hopeless.

Proposal for Miramar
Key points in a consultants' proposal to make joint military/civilian use of Miramar air station feasible:

Two civilian runways south of the existing airfield. North runway for arrivals; south runway for departures. Terminals between the two runways.

Marine carrier landing training moves to new 12,000-foot runway at Camp Pendleton.

Cost is undetermined.

The concept goes before a San Diego County Regional Airport Authority committee Monday for further direction. It requires further analysis for impact on the military base.


“I'm not surprised that the military would say no until San Diego can get its political act together” and reach consensus on an airport solution, Lynch said.

With no suitable civilian site within 60 miles of downtown San Diego, Lynch said the authority has little choice but to consider the circumstances that would make a military site possible.

To that end, the Ricondo consulting team has finished three months of research to outline what it feels is the best option for each base.

“We believe we can make each of these sites work technically,” said Gregory Wellman, associate vice president of Ricondo, making the objections of the military another issue.

At Miramar, the team first developed a more conventional proposal not dependent on any changes at Pendleton. It would place two runways south of and parallel to the station's existing main runway, with all terminal facilities in between and takeoffs over the Miramar landfill.

Because the tight maneuvering required for field carrier landing practice would interfere with such operations, the consultants propose that the military and the civilian operations would essentially swap runways for the training. Military jets would take off and land from the southernmost civilian runway, presumably allowing them to loop around to the south for their return without colliding with civilian aircraft.

If commercial operations couldn't be confined to the remaining civilian strip, excess traffic would spill over to the military airstrip.

At North Island, the consultants propose sharing a nearly X-shaped configuration of runways to avoid sending operations over the city of Coronado. One – requiring the extension of an existing runway into the water by fill or some pier structure – would be used primarily for departures; the other mostly for arrivals.

Lindbergh Field would remain open and all passengers bound for aircraft at North Island would begin at Lindbergh. A 3½-to 4-mile tunnel would provide access; there would be no civilian access through Coronado.

For Pendleton, where options are limited by a bombing range and helicopter operations, the consultants found a footprint along the southern perimeter of the base, about a mile east of Interstate 5 and 1½ miles north of state Route 76.

Wellman said prospects are dim for East Miramar. The location east of Interstate 15 is unsuitable for civilian air operations because of the mountains to the east, he said.

Winter's letter to Davis, which follows a private meeting with her last week, could make prospects for the other bases nearly as hopeless. A lower-ranking Navy official issued blunt reservations to the concept last week following a meeting with an airport authority delegation; the new letter – which repeatedly discounts any possibility of joint use – comes from a position in Pentagon hierarchy immediately below Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his assistant secretary.

Acting under legislative mandate, the airport authority expects to vote on a long-term airport solution by late spring or early summer. It will go on the countywide ballot Nov. 7 as an advisory measure.

What ever happened to the Brown Field expansion proposal?

Well maybe its a grim outlook, but their still some hope. If they continue to study the bases, and they get a site that seems good then we have a vote and its passed...who knows?

What ever happened to the Brown Field expansion proposal?

I think it died when the former city council allowed for development around the airport, making the expansion nearly impossible.

Hey CCDC updated.

445 West Ash
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/MetroLive.jpg

Front & Ash
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Front2020Ash.jpg

16th & Island
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/1620and20Island.jpg

16th & Market
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/16th2020Market.jpg

They're some other slight changed and I might have missed something, but that should be all of it.

^^Thanks for posting, SDfan. That 445 West Ash tower is sexy as hell!!

445 West Ash is MetroLive right?

It's good to see proposed development deep in the East Village all the way in 16th St. Hopefully those plans won't fold . . .

445 West Ash is MetroLive right?Yes



Is there any news about the new courthouse building? I noticed yesterday that the Hotel San Diego was surrounded by sidewalk scaffolding, which must mean they getting ready to demolish it. I wonder if the design issues have been resolved?

Im hoping they overhaul the court house building. It looks to long and tall for that area. I mean at the CCDC center in downtown it looks so imposing in that area.

Oh and could someone go post some more of SD's proposed towers in the US section, under the thread "Americas Finest Skyscrapers (proposed)"? I posted Sapphire, Mondrian (one pic) and Embassy1414 (one pic). So if anyone has the time, could they? Thanks.

Isn't it about time for a quick summary of buildings that should make an impact on our skyline? If all are built, I counted at least 36 towers that will have 20 floors or more. Feel free to add anything I may have missed :)


THE DIEGAN - 21 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Diegan20Web20Size.jpg

MONDRIAN - 39 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/view201.jpg

11TH & B - 26 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/11th_ave_03_lg.jpg

HILTON CONVENTION CENTER HOTEL - 32 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/w_sandiego_hilton.jpg

445 WEST ASH/METROLIVE - 32 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/MetroLive.jpg

STRATA - 21 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/StrataRenderingz.jpg

TWO AMERICA PLAZA - 35 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/image5Finterns12Ejpg.jpg

CALIFORNIA THEATER HOTEL - 30 FLOORS?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/8159catheatertower.jpg

BALLPARK VILLAGE - 5 TOWERS (2 AT 500')
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/bp3.jpg

COSMOPOLITAN SQUARE - 32 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/cms.jpg

BOSA PACIFIC HIGHWAY AND E - 37 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/bosa1.jpg

EMBASSY1414 - 27 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/emb2.jpg

BAYSIDE AT THE EMBARCADERO - 36 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/ash-render.jpg

KETTNER & ASH - 35 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/birdeye_alternative.jpg

SAPPHIRE TOWER - 32 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/saph3.jpg

LIBRARY TOWER - 43 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Newlibtow.bmp

REGENT INTERNATIONAL HOTEL (NEW DESIGN?) - 39 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/intercon.bmp

VANTAGE POINTE - 41 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/vantage.bmp

SPINNAKER HOTEL - 20 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/spinakker.bmp

16TH & ISLAND - 39 FLOORS/31 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/pinnacle3.bmp

PACIFIC POINTE - 450 FEET
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/pacificpoint.bmp

THE MARK - 32 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/mark.bmp

THE LEGEND - 23 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/legend.bmp

ICON - 24 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/icon.bmp

ELECTRA - 43 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/electra.bmp

SD COURTHOUSE - 400'+?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/courthouse4.bmp

ARIA - 24 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/aria.bmp

CITIPOINT - 24 FLOORS
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/elevation_16thstreet.jpg



****PROJECTS WITHOUT RENDERINGS****


-NAVY BROADWAY COMPLEX
-LANE FIELD DEVELOPMENT (RITZ CARLTON, JW MARRIOTT - 27 FLOORS)
-GRAND PACIFIC TOWER - 21 FLOORS
-10TH & B - 20 FLOORS

Im hoping they overhaul the court house building. It looks to long and tall for that area. I mean at the CCDC center in downtown it looks so imposing in that area.
I don't mind the height, it's the width of the building that bothers me.

Oh and could someone go post some more of SD's proposed towers in the US section, under the thread "Americas Finest Skyscrapers (proposed)"?
After seeing some of the proposals in other cities, I don't think any of ours are worthy of being considered the "Finest". ;)

We have to admit that the quality of the renderings has increased dramatically since the first SD Development Thread. Great job posting the images, sd_urban.

I don't mind the height, it's the width of the building that bothers me.

I actually like the building, it reminds me of a very similar court house they built in San Francisco.

[QUOTE=sd_urban]Isn't it about time for a quick summary of buildings that should make an impact on our skyline? If all are built, I counted at least 36 towers that will have 20 floors or more. Feel free to add anything I may have missed :)




Didn't someone already mention that Pacific Pointe has died? The ballpark village camp seems pretty quite these days too...There are some nice projects listed....but....don't you think we could see better???


PS: Todays SDUnion had a piece on san diego and hong kong.Worth a read... :grouphug:

We have to admit that the quality of the renderings has increased dramatically since the first SD Development Thread. Great job posting the images, sd_urban
Thanks! We've had so many announcements of projects at different times that I thought it would be interesting to see them posted together. Even if only half of them get built, we'd still get 18 new buildings :)

I definitely agree that the designs improved over time. When viewed as a group, there seems to be more architectural variety in the towers.

Didn't someone already mention that Pacific Pointe has died? The ballpark village camp seems pretty quite these days too...There are some nice projects listed....but....don't you think we could see better???
I kept Pacific Pointe in there because it appeared on the latest CCDC meeting agenda and also because it's still on the CCDC project listing. It won't be dead to me unless it disappears from the list ;)

Regarding Ballpark Village, let's hope that since Father Joe's low income housing project has been approved, maybe plans for BV will be able to move forward.

There are some nice projects listed....but....don't you think we could see better???
Yeah, definitely. Hopefully, future projects will look more like MetroLive instead of Citipoint.