Indianapolis Development News 3 [Archive]

KM1410

February 3rd, 2006, 06:22 AM

Resurgent Fountain Square

Realtor Phil Barcio lives just down the street from two of the homes his client has on the market on Prospect Street, a block east of Fountain Square.

The two English cottages just southeast of Downtown are selling together for $108,900 -- a bargain if you're in the market for a fixer-upper in a rebounding eclectic neighborhood, said Barcio of Century 21 Scheetz group.

Some think Fountain Square is poised to become the next happening residential neighborhood, with its historic homes and growing arts and antiques district. But with residents acknowledging that as many as 30 percent of the homes in the area are not "rehab-friendly," the neighborhood still has a way to go.

Backed with a $500,000 federal grant, Fountain Square's commercial area is about to get a little sprucing up. Building facades will get a facelift, and a new fountain, sidewalks and streetlamps will be installed. Barcio hopes the residential market will follow suit.

Fountain Square in recent years has been home to eclectic stores and entertainment, with vintage resale and antique shops and rare hobbies. One neighborhood pastime is duckpin bowling in the Fountain Square Theater Building. Swing dancing is also a favorite on weekends in the theater building.

The neighborhood developed from a 264-acre plat purchased by Calvin Fletcher. By the 1870s, a railway and an influx of German merchant immigrants left the commercial square bustling.

At the turn of the century, Fountain Square began to play a leading role in the Indianapolis theater community, maintaining more stages than any other area in the city until the 1950s.

Three decades of decline ensued after the construction of I-65 bisected the community from Downtown, and hundreds of homes were torn down in the 1970s. Suburban flight also left many homes vacant.

But in the past few years the real estate market has started to pick up, and Barcios' home is proof. Barcio and his wife Audrey said when they had their home appraised in 2005 its value had increased 16 percent in just one year.

Some of Barcio's clients have similar stories. A $70,000 home bought by a couple looking for a fixer-upper close to Downtown recently sold for $128,000 -- after investing $5,000 and a lot of elbow grease in improvements.

"The area offers young couples homes close to Downtown rehab possibilities," he said. " As much as 30 percent of the area houses aren't rehab-friendly and could be torn down for new luxury homes attractive to the younger buyer."

Paul Baumgarten, director of Fountain Square Main Street, acknowledges that the community has a certain edge to it.

"A lot of the time people hang on to the opinion of the Fountain Square they knew 15 or 20 years ago, or they let the edgy reputation precede itself a little too much," he said.

The neighborhood has a personality for the arts. It is home to the Wheeler and Murphy Art Center as well as various galleries, luring artists to the area.

The art extends beyond the canvas in the community with ethnic foods. Diners can watch belly dancers over an appetizer of flaming cheese at Santorini's Greek Kitchen. During seasonable weather, the Shelbi Street Cafe's rooftop dining and cocktails are a local favorite.

Fountain Square
• Location: Southeast of Downtown.
• Commute to Downtown: 10 minutes or less.
• Home prices: $50,000 to $110,000.
• History: Fountain Square began with a 264-acre farm plat purchased by Calvin Fletcher in 1835. The original settlement was residential, but by the 1860s a commercial sector was developing with the aid of the Citizen's Street Railway Co. laying tracks down Virginia Avenue and Shelby and Prospect streets.

In the early 1900s, Fountain Square began to play a role in the Indianapolis theater scene. From 1910 to 1950, the neighborhood contained more theaters and playhouses than any other area of the city.

• Home styles: English and Victorian cottages, duplexes, American Four Square variations.
• Schools: George Washington Carver School 87, Southeast Neighborhood School of Excellence.
• Neighborhood associations: Fountain Square Main Street, Fletcher Place Association and Fountain Area Community Team.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20060128&Kategori=BUSINESS&Lopenr=601280413&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
A new attitude: Houses are for sale on Prospect Street. Fountain Square is on the rebound, including use of a $500,000 grant to spruce up its commercial area.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060128/BUSINESS/601280413/1003

moochie

February 3rd, 2006, 06:26 AM

The NIMBYs lose again! Did anyone see the renderings of the project on WTHR yesterday? I am perplexed to how anyone could be opposed to the design of the project. The way some people are talking about the project, they make is seem that Kosene is building a 20 story, vinyl clad tower.

Broad Ripple residents oppose condo project

Broad Ripple, Feb. 1 - Just south of Broad Ripple Village, adjacent to the Monon Trail in an area marked by small cottages and bungalows are signs of protest over a proposed development.

The location is a one and one-half acre site in the 6100 block of Winthrop.

"This is a low density neighborhood and this is a high density condo," points out Peter Dean.

Kosene Acquisitions wants to tear down some one story duplexes and an adjacent house and build 28 upscale town homes with garages and surface parking.

Stephen Mears is the attorney for Kosene Acquisitions. "It's going to help the tax base, be much more attractive and bring ownership into the area whereas now they're mainly renters."

But Dean and others say the multi-family project will stick out and change the character of the neighborhood. "So when you drive down this street, if you'll pardon the expression, it will look like a wart on a witch's nose."

Several businesses also oppose the development, saying it just doesn't fit with Broad Ripple.

"It has to do with density and setbacks." Linda Shikany owns Marigold, there for 16 years, she likes the area's unique qualities. "We welcome development, but let it be within the character and within the plan the city adopted in 1997."

Still, Kosene, which built the popular Monon Row condos to the north, believes the project will only improve the neighborhood. "It's not in character in that it's in fact new and it's ownership versus rental and more dense, but we feel it works well with the older apartments across the trail."

The Metropolitan Development Commission approved the plan 4-3.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=4442297
I used to live in that area. It's (currently) a craphole. It's hard to believe that the neighborhood would object to higher income homeowners as opposed to renters, especially since Broad Ripple Townhomes and the other apartment communites are just a hop skip and a jump away...

KM1410

February 3rd, 2006, 06:32 AM

AirTran unveils LA, SF nonstops
Flights mean direct access to West's tech hubs

If you've been California dreamin' through an Indiana winter, wake up.

AirTran Airways announced Tuesday that it is adding daily nonstop flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco from Indianapolis International Airport.

"Nonstop" is the operative word.

Right now, no airline offers a direct flight to San Francisco from Indianapolis. And Northwest Airlines and Southwest Airlines are the only carriers that fly straight to Los Angeles, though Southwest will end that service Feb. 5.

AirTran also is a low-cost carrier, so the fares of its nonstop flights probably will rival fares for flights with a layover or two. A one-way ticket to Los Angeles aboard AirTran will have a base price of $118. A similar ticket for San Francisco will cost $138.

That's good for Indianapolis and good for business travelers, said Mayor Bart Peterson. Inexpensive, nonstop flights to California -- San Francisco, especially -- will open up new avenues of business for the city's tech-laden life sciences sector, he said.

"It's an opportunity to connect us to two of the most important cities in the United States," said Peterson, who attended a news conference at the airport with AirTran officials and Colts' quarterback Peyton Manning. Manning was there for an event for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

AirTran, based in Orlando, Fla., is known for entering markets and undercutting the fares of larger airlines.

That strategy has been particularly effective in Indianapolis, said Joseph Leonard, chairman and chief executive of AirTran.

"We're pleased with the partnership we have with the city, the airport, and the community has been very supportive," he said.

Within nine months of entering the market, the carrier has gone from two nonstop destinations to eight with Tuesday's announcement.

In addition to Los Angeles and San Francisco, AirTran flies to Atlanta and the Florida cities of Tampa, Orlando, Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale and Sarasota.

For AirTran, that's quick, Leonard said. Typically, it adds one or two destinations a year to a market, not eight.

"This has been much faster," he said. "It's partly helped by the fact that ATA pulled down so many flights."

Bankrupt ATA Airlines made cuts in Indianapolis for months before ending its flights to and from the city altogether last month. Since May 2005, ATA dropped flights to Las Vegas; New York; Phoenix; St. Petersburg, Fla.; Milwaukee; and Flint, Mich., as well as to Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Leonard said ATA left a lot of demand in Indianapolis.

AirTran is trying to meet it -- first with Los Angeles and San Francisco, and later with nonstop destinations along the East Coast, he said.

"We just go where we think there's a chance of success," Leonard said.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006602010379

KM1410

February 3rd, 2006, 06:38 AM

Development offers upscale amenities

• What: Myron Place, a housing development.
• Where: 620 E. 11th St.
• Location Between Park Avenue and Broadway Street on the north side of 11th Street.
• Developer M.R. Kendall Corp.
• Scope of project: 16 connected townhomes, four freestanding homes.
• Home prices: Starting at $279,900.
• First move-in: Within 45 days.
• Features: Homes have nine-foot ceilings, gas fireplaces with decorative surrounds, granite countertops in the kitchen, stainless steel appliances, designer cabinets and kitchen islands. Each home comes with an two-car garages, two bedrooms and 21/2 baths.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20060126&Kategori=BUSINESS&Lopenr=601260393&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
Myron PLace Condos located at 11th Street and Broadway.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601260393

KM1410

February 3rd, 2006, 06:45 AM

Cultural corridor
Westside area magnet for ethnic retailers

For four years, Jong Sung dreamed of bringing the world to Indianapolis, all wrapped within the four walls of a grocery store.

Today, his two-month-old store Saraga -- which means "life," "love" or "let's go shopping" in his native Korean -- is where people from different nationalities shop, eat and hang flags from their homeland.

Situated directly across from Lafayette Square Mall on Lafayette Road, his grocery, Saraga International, couldn't be in a more fitting spot.

In the last several years, the retail corridor along West 38th Street between Lafayette and High School roads has embraced merchants from all over the world.

Cheaper rents, proximity to Downtown and an increasing number of foreign-born residents have turned the area into a magnet for immigrant and ethnic retailers anxious to test their concepts before moving or expanding to the Northside.

Restaurants and bazaars here sell everything from Ethiopian ye beg tibs and Indian tandoori chicken to Vietnamese pho, Salvadoran pupusa and crocodile-skin boots from Mexico. Store signs are written in Spanish, Vietnamese, Hindi and Arabic.

"There's a growing ethnic population that celebrates diversity," Sung said. "This is the ideal location for us."

Saraga, which occupies a former Kmart, sells merchandise ranging from curry powder to pig's feet and beef tripe. It also has food stations selling Korean, Chinese and Japanese cuisine.

Since it opened, patrons have showed up with flags from their native countries, adding to the existing collection that hangs near the cash registers.

"They come in and ask for their pictures to be taken with us near the flags," Sung said. "It makes us proud."

What works for Sung and other ethnic retailers in the area is demographics.

The grocery is near the city's largest concentration of foreign-born residents. To the northwest, along High School Road, foreign-born residents make up 12.3 percent to 29 percent of the population, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.

The international-flavored businesses are moving into retail space abandoned in recent years by major retailers such as Circuit City and others, providing a business incubator for immigrants from Ethiopia, Peru, Egypt and other countries.

The movement has led to job opportunities for other immigrants and created apartment complexes bearing names such as Las Palmas. Retailers such as India Emporium have landed at Lafayette Square Mall. Even the Georgetown Cinemas 14 nearby started screening Indian Bollywood movies.

The onslaught of merchants has created a competitive environment where only the strongest survive.

Holy Land Halal Meat and Liu's Cuisine, a Malaysian eatery, are a few of the recent casualties.

"It's too packed with options," explained Hooi Tan, of co-owner of Liu's.

But some of the risks have yielded results.

Take the International Bazaar, which began as a 1,000-square-foot store selling nuts and other snacks at a neighboring location and grew into a 15,000-square-foot space. The business, which now rakes in over $1 million in annual sales, includes a grocery store, the vegetarian restaurant Udupi Cafe, Halal Meat Market and International Bazaar Electronics.

The owners also expanded north with Garam Masala Indian Grill near 86th Street and Ditch Road.

"We took a chance with a very small investment," said owner Sudha Calcuttawala.

City and state officials are taking note of some of the successes, designating the Westside area as a community revitalization and enhancement district and offering tax incentives to retailers, while sprucing up and widening the streets there. The investments have begun luring back national retailers.

Wal-Mart recently announced it will build a supercenter at 46th Street and Lafayette Road.

"We feel good about the future of that area," said Gordon Hendry, director of economic development for Mayor Bart Peterson. "We know of some deals in the works that we think will be a nice shot in the arm for that area."

Sung, who co-owns Saraga with his brother Bong, says he is optimistic about the area and the store's future. The Sungs already are working to offer a liquor section and expand the store to carry bulk groceries for restaurants.

And if all goes well, there are bigger plans.

"I always dream big," Jong Sung said with a smile. "Hopefully I will have 20 of these stores in different states."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601250381

Wu-Gambino

February 3rd, 2006, 01:22 PM

"This is a low density neighborhood and this is a high density condo
Ugh, the NIMBY's in Broad Ripple never cease to amaze me.

"So when you drive down this street, if you'll pardon the expression, it will look like a wart on a witch's nose."
And all the surface lots, sprinkled with bland apartments and a few gas stations don't?

NaptownBoy

February 3rd, 2006, 02:59 PM

^^^Agreed

February 3rd, 2006, 03:49 PM

February 3rd, 2006, 03:54 PM

AirTran- maybe they will put a hub in Indy... But isn't ATA on the rebound?

moochie, other than the location of Simon HQ how do you think the design could have been better?

February 3rd, 2006, 04:01 PM

does anyone know if the revitalized/gentrified neighborhoods in downtown are becoming racially diverse (not necessarily balanced)?

CorrND

February 3rd, 2006, 05:08 PM

Well, since Heron-Morton and the Old Northside are both IHPC governed areas, they will have to go through the review process with them and parking will have to be in the rear!

Unfortunately, that Kroger location is technically not part of either historic neighborhood. It's right on the border of both, but because it's north of 16th St, it's not part of the Old Northside and because it's east of Central, it's not part of Herron-Morton.

It's fantastic news if they do anything to that Kroger site, though -- it's such a blight. I used to live at 17th and Central and that Kroger was referred to as "scary Kroger". I could have walked there to get my groceries but more often than not, I drove to O'Malias instead. The Safeway at 22nd and Central was also referred to as the Unsafeway. Apparently it closed recently. Anybody know if there's any development in the works for that site?

cwilson758

February 3rd, 2006, 05:30 PM

CorrND-

You are correct, it is "right outside" of the IHPC areas, BUT, these neighborhoods will be VERY vocal when the plans get filed. When I was still on Staff, the IHPC defeated a plan at that site that would have been a suburban style development. The planning staff knows that eventhough the area isn't prtected, the development pattern of the area is that of a historical area. I have complete confidence that the new development will be tied to the two IHPC districts.

As far as the NIMBY's in BR, this project has been floationg around for about 4 years. Nice to see it finally get the go ahead. I hear the same thing here in Cumberland about what many call "high density." If it is over 3 unit /acre, people call it high density. To me, 25u/acre is getting into high density. And yes, owner-occupied new dwellings is a MARKED improvement over the existing conditions.

As far as a "diverse" downtown, I wouldn't think so. That is my only gripe about all the new downtown residential. In order to live downtown, you have to have money. Therefore, the immigrants, lower-middle class, etc is being left out. The only diversity is in the gay populations.

February 3rd, 2006, 06:24 PM

i guess only big projects like Fall Creek Place & One Market Sq (the low rise bldgs), for example, deal w/ mixed income.

anybody know anything re: inclusionary zoning in dwntn? are most of the projects too small to deal w/ it?

CorrND

February 3rd, 2006, 10:07 PM

However, look at the area north of the Capitol and the AUL building, and east of the Canal... Block after block after block of nothing but HUGE parking lots and low rise light industrial. If I had to bet, I'd say that that is where the future modern high rise office buildings will be, and perhaps the greatest opportunities for daring contemporary architecture.

Very good point. And speaking of that area, why does the area below in red remain undeveloped? While the canal is wonderful as a park, I keep hearing people complain that there aren't enough things to do, e.g. restaurants, small shops, etc. This will be improved when Buggs Temple (http://www.buggstemple.com/) finally opens, but this site would be perfect for something like this. It's relatively central on the canal and located close to IUPUI campus. The area directly across the canal from this spot could be developed as well. At least that location is currently being used as a parking lot for the businesses on Indiana. The red area below is just sitting there -- it's practically begging to be developed!

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/canal.JPG

unvrsty07

February 3rd, 2006, 11:42 PM

cwilson758

February 4th, 2006, 12:23 AM

Aren't there houses there now? I think that this is the last of the "Watermark" homes. I run the canal at least once a week (when its warm) and I recall there being construction of houses there last fall.

chindy

February 4th, 2006, 03:58 AM

If ATA is on the rebound it has nothing to do with the Indy market, all their flights are out of Midway now. Air Tran is just stepping into the spot they vacated.

moochie

February 4th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Wu-Gambino

February 4th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Is there still that surface lot behind the Walker Theater on Indiana Avenue? What are the chances of that getting developed?

CorrND

February 4th, 2006, 05:21 PM

^^^^ Could you put residential on those two lots? Example: two mid rise apartment buildings on the two lots you mentioned with a nice walking bridge over the canal connecting the two, with first floor retail and restaurants (to provide "things to do")... Or is it more suited for strictly restaurants, small shops, etc.?

You could put residential there, but there's already 3 apartment complexes on the canal and the condo/house development that cwilson758 mentioned, Watermark, directly north of this site. I think there's enough residential on the canal already. And you're right, cwilson758, about Watermark finishing up that project, but it's a little farther north from this site (I outlined the area in blue where the last 3 or 4 houses are currently being constructed).

What I envision would be a 3-story building (in line with other buildings on the canal in this area) with canal-level shops and restaurants with balconies looking over the canal on levels 2 and 3. The building would occupy the NW corner of the red box below. I think North St. could be extended down to the canal with a grand staircase as a public-access point, effectively providing a border with the private Watermark area to the north. The SE corner of the red area could be a public parking lot or could be developed in the future if the area really takes off. As unvrsty07 mentioned, another walking bridge could be built at North St. to connect to the other side of the canal where a similar development could be done. This bridge might not be necessary, though, as people can cross the canal one block north (walking bridge at Walnut) and south (on the Michigan St. bridge) of this spot.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/canal2.JPG

NaptownBoy

February 4th, 2006, 06:23 PM

February 4th, 2006, 08:27 PM

i found the following on wthr.com and by looking at past projects on the developers website the designs will probably be questionable (a.k.a suburban). I encourage everyone to e-mail the 'top dogs' @ the development co. and tell them how important it is that they don't build the same product as in Fishers, etc.; groundbreaking isn't until May.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Two new hotels planned near new stadium

Mary Milz/Eyewitness News

Indianapolis, Feb. 3 - As construction continues on the new Indiana Stadium, so do plans for new development just west of the site.

Dora Brothers Hospitality Corporation plans to break ground on two new hotels and a parking garage in early May. Dora currently owns the Best Western at 410 S. Missouri, which it's coverting to a Holiday Inn Express.

"We've always been south of the RCA Dome," says Sales Director Julie Garrett. "Now with the stadium here and our new properties, we'll be very visible." Garrett says Dora plans an eight-story Staybridge Suites and a six-story Comfort Suites Hotel along the 500 block of West Street, both with room to expand.

The Comfort Suites will replace the one on Capitol Avenue, which was torn down to make room for the new stadium. Dora also plans a 69-car parking garage just north of the new hotels.

And Dora bought property at the southeast corner of South and West Streets, where Hunt Construction is leasing space during the stadium construction. Garrett says Dora views that as a possible site for a fourth hotel, once the stadium is done. "the opportunity to buy land downtown doesn't come very often," Garrett says. "and just knowing what's coming to downtown, we see lots of opportunity."

City planners see the area ripe for future development with long term plans calling for a mix of retail, residential and office development. The three hotels will give Dora a total of 356 rooms in the area. Garrett sees the primary market as convention visitors and corporate travelers, with Eli Lilly Headquarters just a few blocks east.

"The proximity is a big selling point. Our hotels will be in the heart of it all, in the heart of downtown, once the stadium and convention center (expansion) are done," Garrett says. Basey's Downtown Grill and Spirits sits on West Street just north of the proposed hotels.

Owner Greg Basey says he plans to remain there. Of the new hotels, Basey says, "I love it... The best part about it other than it brings in more people is that (dora) doesn't put bars or restaurants in any of their establishments."

Already seeing an increase in business from nearby construction workers, Basey expects sales to jump even more, once the hotels open. "it's going to bring more money in which helps the business, my family and my church," Basey says.

Tim Dora says the hotels and garage represent a $25-$30 million investment. He expects completion in the summer of 2007, a full year before the new stadium opens."

unvrsty07

February 4th, 2006, 08:42 PM

http://www.dorabros.com/images/hp_composits/hp_indpls_comp_off.jpg

I think these are the hotels, Can some one confirm that? Heres the web address, follow it to indianapolis downtown. http://www.dorabros.com/

February 4th, 2006, 09:06 PM

i don't believe those are the actual designs since the Staybridge is supposed to be 8 stories...

moochie

February 4th, 2006, 11:59 PM

What the hell is that thing?
It's the Ontario College of Art and Design in Toronto.

cwilson758

February 5th, 2006, 01:36 AM

billionbucks

February 5th, 2006, 02:04 AM

Egad... I want one of these downtown...

http://www.ocad.on.ca/images/large_OCAD_ext.jpg

I don't even care where, but something this interesting and... well... in some ways ugly.. would so shake up Indy. I love mod architecture.
This looks like fun, I could see something like it downtown... I don't know where though.

The ideas/sketches for market street look really cool! I hope those are used!

moochie

February 5th, 2006, 09:29 AM

This looks like fun, I could see something like it downtown... I don't know where though.

The ideas/sketches for market street look really cool! I hope those are used!
I was thinking that it would go well either at or near IUPUI. It would be very cool to see something crazy like that somehow worked into the White River Park or the Canal area. Perhaps even hanging over the water.

cjfjapan

February 5th, 2006, 11:02 AM

well, the 2 hotels that they currently own (or did with the demo of the one) were HORRIBLE. They were/are identical to one found along I-465! Aweful design. I hope that they are scrutinized and not allowed to be built of crap.

I checked the dorabros.com site, and there arent any renderings of the new stadium hotels yet...I agree though; most of their hotels are suburban (save the Roberts in Muncie, and a new one in Terre Haute)--so hopefully they will draw on that experience and build something suitable for Central Indy.

StevenW

February 5th, 2006, 04:02 PM

http://www.ocad.on.ca/images/large_OCAD_ext.jpg

Woah! :eek2: That IS wild! :uh:
Cool, though. :D

February 6th, 2006, 09:14 PM

anyone have updates on upgrading U.S. 31 in Hamilton Cnty to freeway standards?

someone previously mentioned adding more lanes to I-69; are decision makers really supporting that?

indyfiend

February 7th, 2006, 06:27 AM

Here's a few paragraphs from indystar.com that talks a little about the US 31 project...

..."I've been waiting for them to do something for quite a while," said Westfield-to-Kokomo commuter Stefanie Lorenz, 26, who fights congestion daily on U.S. 31. "I'm in favor of anything that will keep traffic moving."
From Evansville to Indy, Carmel to South Bend, and Castleton to Fishers, Hoosiers are hoping several long-awaited highway projects can now move forward as a result of Gov. Mitch Daniels' plan to lease out the Indiana Toll Road to a Spanish-Australian partnership.
Topping the list are three major hot spots: an upgrade of U.S. 31; an expanded highway in Indy's Northeast Corridor; and a new I-69 connection to Evansville.
U.S. 31 among top road work needs

When he took his job in Kokomo, Fred Hakes thought the commute from Brownsburg would be easy. A quick jaunt around I-465, then straight up U.S. 31.
Had to be better than commuting Downtown, he figured.
But the reality of heavy suburban congestion struck early -- and often. After spending too many days idling in long lines of traffic, waiting for the green at 15 stoplights in Hamilton County, Hakes abandoned the route.
"That Carmel juggernaut every morning . . . sitting through light after light from I-465 to (Ind.) 32 -- it was a bit much," said Hakes, the director of continuing studies at Indiana University Kokomo, who now drives north through Boone County before connecting to the highway in Westfield.
Once the money from the lease deal is in, U.S. 31 would get a $280 million upgrade under the state's 10-year plan. The four-lane divided highway will be upgraded to interstate quality, which means intersections will be replaced with interchanges, and stoplights will be removed.
And Kokomo -- sarcastically called "stoplight city" by many travelers -- will get a second bypass to the east, replacing the current bypass that was built in 1952 to remove congestion from Downtown Kokomo.
"I went to Notre Dame in 1972, back when the Kokomo bypass was new," said Indianapolis attorney David R. Hennessy, 51. "I have watched it grow now for 34 years, and it is now hell . . . pure hell.
"I can tell you that it gets heavy traffic for Notre Dame games. I would say whatever it takes to improve that U.S. 31 monstrosity is good in our book. If that sale (of the Toll Road) meets too much opposition, maybe the governor would consider selling 31 to an international consortium."
At the IU-Kokomo campus, where 63 percent of its 3,200 students commute from outside Howard County, there will be much relief, especially for the 209 students and faculty members who come from Hamilton County.
"I know this is something Kokomo really, desperately needs," said Minda Douglas, who teaches fine arts at IU-Kokomo and commutes daily from Noblesville. "But I certainly won't be looking forward to the construction."...

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 01:38 AM

:gaah: GAAH! It's frickin killing me! What is the current status of the One Market Square project? :gaah:

chindy

February 10th, 2006, 04:19 AM

BTW, what ever happened to Gych? Is he banned? I used to enjoy seeing him and CWilson go at it every other day.

February 10th, 2006, 04:43 AM

moochie, please call the sales office and get the scoop for us!!!! last time i inquired about sales & construction, the guy said construction would begin 2nd qtr 2006 (April -June)

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 05:17 AM

moochie, please call the sales office and get the scoop for us!!!! last time i inquired about sales & construction, the guy said construction would begin 2nd qtr 2006 (April -June)
Funny, I e-mailed them shortly after my post. If I don't get a reply in a few days, I'll call. I own a couple properties on East Market street, and made sure to mention that I'm strongly in favor of their development, so I'm hoping I'll be taken seriously enough for a response. that tactic seems to work pretty well when I've contacted the city...

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 05:28 AM

BTW, what ever happened to Gych? Is he banned? I used to enjoy seeing him and CWilson go at it every other day.
I think he really must be banned. He hasn't been around SSC for a couple weeks, and if he was still here, he'd be having trouble typing due to multiple orgasms as a result of this new 61 story 700 footer just announced in Louisville:

http://museumplaza.net/images/Museum-Plaza.jpg

http://museumplaza.net/images/skyline.jpg

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7503.0

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/NEWS01/602090386/1008

http://www.museumplaza.net/video_wmv.html

cjfjapan

February 10th, 2006, 05:40 AM

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 06:01 AM

I was wondering about gych...maybe he died and went to heaven when Museum plaza was announced. I would have, if it had been proposed for Indy. Dammit. Why didnt the Cesar Pelli corncob get built in White River State Park?

Anyway, when can we expect Indy to get a whacko crazy-ass tower like this one? Sorry, but im really jealous of this one.
He's definitely been banned. He has "BANNED" written under his name, and when I tried to do that all I got was "******". I popped over to the Louisville dev. thread, and it appears that he got in a final argument with the other regulars there and he and at least one other person was banned. Nothing too insulting was said in the thread, so perhaps some ugliness went on with the private message system.

As for Indy, to use my psychic powers, I see a huge 70 story ultra modern/futurist landmark tower going up north of the Capitol building as soon as a big corporation locates their national headquarters here... When will this happen? Who will it be? A corporation in the biotech field within 6 to 10 years.

You heard it here first. Don't doubt my psychic powers!

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 07:16 AM

indyfiend

February 10th, 2006, 07:40 AM

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 07:44 AM

All I can say is WOW :eek2: It pains me to say this, but with that new project, Louisville just passed Indy. Not only is it a great tower, but it makes a bold statement about the city. I hope all the conservatives in Indy are taking notes. Indy needs a statement tower like this!
Passed Indy in architecture? Sure. Louisville already was one up on us on that one. They also have a better arts scene, and this supports it.

But it's durn near impossible to think of any other way that Louisville has passed Indy...

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 08:04 AM

I am sorry, but that building will be the ugliest man-made structure ever built. Louisville, you can have it. Honestly, I think your average 2 year old could come up with a more pleasing shape. It’s way to deconstructionist for my taste.

I would much rather see something along the lines of Charlotte’s Bank of America Corporate Center. http://static.flickr.com/32/97814124_acd77202db_o.jpg

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 08:29 AM

In my opinion, skyscrapers should be beautiful and uplifting. The
Museum Plaza Building will be awkward and depressing.

cjfjapan

February 10th, 2006, 08:30 AM

You know, I loved the Pelli tower, but I wonder if we could do better. Actually, I'd just be happy if it was built to 1000 foot plus rather than the proposed 700 to 800 foot.

I remember seeing a model of it in the 1987 (?) National Geographic story on Indy (or was it the Smithsonian?)--but then it seemed to die. I agree though, that Indy could do better than that. I really didnt care for the structure, but it would have been an "exclamation point" for the city.

To hoss, I dont think Indy needs an 800' wedding cake. I would rather have something that makes a statement, or pulls the skyline in different directions. Eventually, I think the area around the Museum Plaza will be filled in with complementary architecture, just like it has around the taller buildings in Chicago (although never to that scale in Louavul or Indy). But a huge tower on the SW part of the Mile Square would give the Indy skyline great depth. Right now, its almost too "finished" for my taste. Everything seems to fit very well geometrically, and I think that's kind of...ho hum.

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 08:55 AM

I remember seeing a model of it in the 1987 (?) National Geographic story on Indy (or was it the Smithsonian?)--but then it seemed to die. I agree though, that Indy could do better than that. I really didnt care for the structure, but it would have been an "exclamation point" for the city.

To hoss, I dont think Indy needs an 800' wedding cake. I would rather have something that makes a statement, or pulls the skyline in different directions. Eventually, I think the area around the Museum Plaza will be filled in with complementary architecture, just like it has around the taller buildings in Chicago (although never to that scale in Louavul or Indy). But a huge tower on the SW part of the Mile Square would give the Indy skyline great depth. Right now, its almost too "finished" for my taste. Everything seems to fit very well geometrically, and I think that's kind of...ho hum.

Nuvo ran a cover story on Pelli's "Indiana Tower" in August 2001. They had pics and everything. Here it is, minus the pics:
-------
http://www.nuvo.net/archive/oldarts/articlex601.html

Cover: Exclamation point!

Could Cesar Pelli’s Indiana Tower still be built?
By David Hoppe

Aug 9, 2001, 11:07am

There is a tourist site on the World Wide Web called Modern Wonders. Clicking on it presents you with a listing of extraordinary structures — a kind of architectural Greatest Hits — visited by millions of people every year. Here you’ll find links to such destinations as the Channel Tunnel linking Great Britain and France, the Eiffel Tower and the Sydney Opera House. Several Wonders are located in the United States, including the Empire State Building, Golden Gate Bridge, Statue of Liberty and Gateway Arch in St. Louis.
Needless to say, there is no listing associated with Indianapolis on the Modern Wonders Web site. But that’s not to say it couldn’t happen. That’s right: Indianapolis could boast an architectural icon able to hold its own among the world’s great buildings. In fact, the plans for this building — designed, no less, by an internationally renowned architect — already exist. All that needs to happen for Indianapolis to have its own Modern Wonder is for the right people to say, "Yes!"
Indiana Tower, the creation of Cesar Pelli — an architect known around the world for his ability to design memorable public structures — was presented to the White River State Park Commission in 1980. The 750-foot Tower was intended to serve as the focal point for the new urban gathering place that city leaders hoped the park would become. A lot of water’s flowed under the Washington Street Bridge since then. The park has developed in ways its founders could hardly have imagined, as has the city’s downtown. During the past 20 years, Indianapolis has become a success story that’s widely admired by urban planners throughout the United States.
That story, of course, is far from finished. Indianapolis is still an unknown quantity in the minds of most people. Mayor Bart Peterson’s recent Cultural Development Initiative makes this point — as do the seemingly endless reports about the flight of our youngest and brightest citizens to other, more attractive cities. According to Peterson’s 2001 Cultural Development report, "There is an overarching lack of knowledge or up-to-date perception of Indianapolis as a city, which sharply reduces interest in Indianapolis as a destination at all, and secondarily limits interest in it as a cultural destination."
This finding is nothing new. In 1985, when the White River State Park was little more than a bulldozer’s playground, William Watt, the Park Commission chair, said of their plans, which still included Pelli’s Tower, "I think this venture has a great deal of potential for helping to convey to the rest of the country that Indiana is not just one of those flat states out in the Midwest that begin with the letter ‘I.’"
Sid Weedman, the park’s executive director, was quoted in The Indianapolis Star: "Indianapolis today is not a tourist attraction even though half of the population of the United States lives within one day’s drive of the city."
Indianapolis has come a long way. But sustaining this growth depends on the city’s finally establishing itself on the national stage as a dynamic destination. Other cities in our region have come to the same conclusion and so are building headline-making cultural monuments to symbolize their sophistication and ambition: Milwaukee and Cincinnati are both building architecturally daring arts facilities; Chicago has commissioned the world’s current uber-architect, Frank Gehry, to give it a new bandshell on Michigan Avenue. While Indiana’s new State Museum might be said to fall in with this general trend, the project seems recycled — the same prosaic goods, albeit in a predictably stylish package. If the goal is to make Indiana cool to young professionals, tourists and global businesspeople, sending them to a state museum is a footnote where what’s wanted is an exclamation point. Cesar Pelli’s Indiana Tower is that exclamation point.

Pelli’s Tower

"The Tower will establish the Crossroads of America," wrote Cesar Pelli in 1980. "Its multiple associations will engage our imagination, memories — and our dreams."
Intended to stand at the intersection of the White River and the city, Indiana Tower was designed to be a truncated, octagonal pyramid, 150 feet across at the base and 60 feet across at its peak. At 750 feet high, it would be 120 feet taller than the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, almost 200 feet taller than the Washington Monument and well over twice the size of the Statue of Liberty. Built of reinforced concrete and partially clad in precast concrete and limestone, the Tower featured a large, open observation platform at the height of 150 feet, with a glazed observation room, protected from the weather, at its peak.
An elevator was provided to take people to the top of the Tower, but the favored means of ascent would be a gently sloping ramp that could provide people with a one and three-quarter mile stroll to the summit. Along the way, visitors could peer through arched windows at views of the landscape below. Mileposts in Indiana history were to be carved into limestone slabs and mounted along the walls.
Annually, 720,000 people were expected to visit the Tower, which was designed to include permanent and changing exhibition space at its base, as well as an auditorium, cafeteria, restaurant, gift shop, restrooms, offices, storage and public gathering spaces. In 1981, total cost was projected at $25 million — $15 million for the Tower structure itself. It was anticipated the project would generate $1,250,000 in visitor fees per year.
The Tower, according to the White River State Park Commission’s planning document prepared by Robert Coma and Cary Goodman and released in 1981, would provide the city with an image: "An image is a memorable impression to be talked about and carried to all corners of the world." It compared the Tower with a mountain to be climbed. "The Tower is also to be an object of Indiana pride, a major accomplishment of art and an affirmation of a belief in Indiana’s future." The document alluded to the great cathedrals of France and spoke of the "commitment and initiative of the citizens who built them."

Pelli

Cesar Pelli was born in Argentina in 1926. Since 1952, he has practiced architecture in the United States, first working as an associate of Eero Saarinen. Among his other works are the Commons and Courthouse Center in Columbus, Ind., a recent wing for the Museum of Modern Art in New York City and the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia — the tallest building in the world. "Cesar Pelli has established himself as one of the most talented public architects of today," Sibyl Moholy Nagy wrote, "a designer whose buildings are makers of public environment and creators of public aesthetics."
Pelli, who over the phone sounds warm, continental and avuncular, speaks with great affection for the Indiana Tower. "I am extremely attached to that design," he says today. The Tower, he explains, was intended to be visible from a distance, "very strong, but not overwhelming." When asked about the design, he responds, "These things are intuitive responses, like starting with a blank canvas." He began by making models, testing heights and proportions. "I felt very assured of the correctness of the proportions of the Tower."
Following his final presentation of the work, Pelli left Indianapolis feeling optimistic. "We were hopeful it would go ahead … This would be a phenomenal tourist attraction," he remembers. But he says he never heard another word, either positive or negative, from the White River Park Commission. A cast bronze model of the Tower which he left with the commissioners has, after spending time in the basement of the park’s pumphouse, gone missing in the intervening years. Nevertheless, Pelli’s enthusiasm for the Tower hasn’t waned.
Would he be interested in going ahead with the project if it were resurrected? He answers without hesitation: "Oh my God! I’d jump at it, of course."

What happened?

When you speak today with people who were involved in the White River Park planning process, almost everyone remembers the Tower as being, well, pretty amazing. "Beautiful" and "gorgeous" are words frequently used to describe it. Without prompting, people compare it to the Eiffel Tower and the Gateway Arch. But these feelings of wonder were not enough to make the Tower a reality in Indianapolis. What happened?
The movement that brought Cesar Pelli to Indianapolis began in the 1960s, with the first stirrings in favor of downtown revitalization. At that time, a group of young, upwardly mobile professional men began meeting on a regular basis to brainstorm about what needed to be done to make Indianapolis feel like a city commensurate with their ambitions. They called themselves the City Committee and their members included Jim Morris (at that time vice president of the Lilly Endowment), Herb Simon, Bob Kennedy, Louis Mahern and John Mutz. "We were all young," recalls Mutz, who went on to be lieutenant governor under Robert Orr, "and we did this because we thought it was fun. We really wanted to change the character of our city."
The members of the City Committee eventually agreed that the city needed to emphasize four key points: amateur sports; agriculture, including food and nutrition; the arts; and education. The drive to declare Indianapolis an "amateur sports capital" came out of these meetings, as did the impetus to develop White River State Park.
"Among the things we looked at," Mutz says, "is that here is a city with a river that nobody paid any attention to. Everybody had turned their back on the river, including state government." The committee members retreated to Mutz’s lake cottage outside Columbus, Ind. When they returned to the city, they carried the ideas for Indiana’s first urban state park with them.
Mutz and Louis Mahern, Mutz’s City Committee cohort and Democratic counterpart in the state Legislature, co-authored the White River State Park legislation. It was not an easy sell. Not only did the rest of the state resent what they viewed as disproportionate dollars flowing toward Indy, but there were also questions about a park that, to some, looked more like a commercial entertainment venture — at different times, both Disney and Knott’s Berry Farm were wooed as potential developers of park attractions.
Indeed, from the very start, the park was intended to be an urban entertainment district with a variety of attractions that would bring people downtown and be irresistible to tourists. As Robert Coma and Cary Goodman described it in the introduction to the Park Commission’s planning report in 1981: "The goals for White River Park are sweeping: to develop an urban landmark unparalleled in our contemporary world, a park which sets a new standard of creativity and excellence."
A kind of dream team of architects, including Cesar Pelli, was assembled to design the park’s various components. In addition to the Tower, the park made space for the new Indianapolis Zoo, an amusement area modeled on Copenhagen’s Tivoli Gardens called Indiana Landing and a Performing Arts Quadrangle. The Lilly Endowment offered $5 million, which was eventually matched by $10 million from the state Legislature. But all this money could do was secure the land for the park and help underwrite the re-routing of Washington Street. "The park will be developed through a private-public partnership as cultural and recreational facilities have been traditionally developed in the State of Indiana," wrote Robert Siler, the analyst responsible for the park’s financial plan.
And that’s where the problems started. In the first place, the year was 1981 — the country was in the midst of one of its worst recessions, and Indiana was hit particularly hard. Money — private or public — for a park/entertainment district was scarce. Republican Rep. Jerome Reppa of Munster was quoted in The Star as late as 1985 pointing out that unemployment still stood in double digits in his Northwest Indiana district: "It’s nice to have a world-class park and zoo and all of that. But we also have a responsibility to see that people don’t freeze to death."
The hope that a private developer would embrace the project and build its components in order to make profits down the road gradually evaporated. In the end, the one piece that found and sustained local champions was the zoo.
Since its completion, the park has gradually become a kind of campus, making way for a pragmatically assembled array of attractions, including the Eiteljorg Museum, the NCAA headquarters, White River Gardens, the Congressional Medal of Honor memorial, an IMAX theater and, soon, the State Museum. Lacking a champion of its own, the Tower gradually drifted lower and lower on the scale of park priorities and, like the bronze model Pelli brought to Indianapolis, eventually disappeared.

No small plans

Cary Goodman, one of the original authors of the park planning report, is a nationally recognized authority on design solutions for complex building problems and an executive with Gould Evans Goodman Associates in Kansas City, Mo. During the planning process for the park, he traveled to Indianapolis almost every week for a year. Today, he calls the original White River Park plan "way ahead of its time."
He recalls that the first Tower design Pelli brought in was like some kind of rocketship. The piece was criticized for being cold, so Pelli went back to work and returned with his ultimate design. "God," remembers Goodman, "it was really magical." Pelli, he says, "thought it through in great detail."
Like Pelli, Goodman would welcome the Tower’s resurrection. "The best discoveries are rediscoveries," he says. While praising the city as a model of contemporary urban revitalization, Goodman observes, "The architecture’s pretty pedestrian in Indianapolis." Noting the bold buildings that are going up in cities like Columbus, Milwaukee and Chicago, Goodman refers back to Pelli’s Tower saying, "It took Saarinen’s [Gateway] Arch 25 years to get built … This is something really special."
And something, doubtless, expensive to build. Even without the museum-like exhibition spaces, auditorium, offices and storage space, Pelli’s Tower would cost more than $25 million to construct today. What’s more, with the erection of such buildings as the State Museum and the NCAA headquarters, the White River Park grounds have been all but spoken for — another site would probably have to be found. There will also always be questions directed to this, or any structure remotely like it, regarding its benefits in relation to its cost. There’s a lot of good work in this city that could be accomplished for the cost the Tower would incur.
But in the end, things invariably get funded not because they are necessarily right or just, but because people want those things to happen. By the same token, when things don’t happen it’s not because the money does not exist. When the Pacers needed a new place to play, $200 million was found for Conseco Fieldhouse. How in the world of cost/benefit ratios do you calculate the value of a 750-foot tower that might stand as a modern wonder for centuries to come?
"Residents need to come to know and believe in Indianapolis as a world-class cultural hub," says the Mayor’s Cultural Development Initiative report. For that to happen, money must be spent so that the attention of the world can be attracted. A tower that is as beautiful as it is big — and that, as a plan, already exists — could be one way of proclaiming this place. Some, of course, will say such things just don’t happen here, that a building that doesn’t do anything is a high-falutin’ waste. Maybe. But as Daniel Burnham, the architect of Chicago’s lakefront once said, "Make no small plans ..."

The case of the missing model

One of the more intriguing tangents regarding the story of Cesar Pelli’s Indiana Tower concerns the whereabouts of the model he created for the formal presentation he made to the White River Park Commission 20 years ago. Although no one can remember exactly how tall the model was, it seems safe to say it was big — at least as tall as a person. It was also painted cast bronze, so it was probably heavy.
No wonder Pelli left it here in Indianapolis.
“It was magical,” recalls Cary Goodman.
It’s missing.
Most of the people I spoke with who participated in the process of planning the park remember the model — and remember being impressed by it. Apparently, it was kept on display at the park pumphouse for a while.
But when Peggy Boehm, the park director, and I ventured down to the pumphouse basement to see if the model was still in storage there, we were disappointed. For her part, Boehm was unaware that a model of the Tower even existed. Eager to see it for herself, she called around to some of her park colleagues, including Sid Weedman, who was park director in the early ’80s. No one she spoke with had seen the model for years.
For his part, Pelli says he is certain the model is still in Indianapolis. Commissioned by the White River State Park Commission, the model is, presumably, the property of the state. But neither the collections professionals at the State Museum nor the state’s architect have laid eyes on it. The model is certainly a sculptural work of art. It may be sitting in someone’s garden — or making one helluva doorstop.
If you know where it is, please give the arts desk at NUVO a call or, better, e-mail dhoppe@nuvo.net.

Dollars and sites

In 1980, the cost of Pelli’s Tower was projected at $25 million. Figuring out how that cost would translate into today’s dollars is difficult — especially when you consider potential changes to the facility that might be called for. With the new State Museum going up, would all that exhibition space or the auditorium still be called for? At least one architect in town has suggested that, to be on the safe side, the cost would have to be estimated at $80 to $100 million — or roughly half the hit incurred by a building like the Conseco Fieldhouse.

Where to put the Tower is another question. The White River Park campus is getting a little crowded for an attraction that would attract 750,000 people or more per year. But there’s a virtual concrete desert of unsightly surface parking that many city planners would love to deal with immediately north of the government center and west of Illinois Street. For that matter, there’s that gigantic vacant lot where Market Square Arena used to be.
dhoppe@nuvo.net

--------

Maybe someone should e-mail Nuvo or this dhoppe@nuvo.net to see the pics...

Indy already has an 800 foot wedding cake... It's called the Chase (Bank One) Tower. I once had a German girlfriend who thought it was absolutely hilarious looking. She called "die gigantische Kücheschabe", or "The gigantic (kitchen) cockroach" because of it's antennae.

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 09:02 AM

http://static.flickr.com/43/97824258_2d8456f086_o.gif
http://static.flickr.com/36/97824256_5b98844988_o.gif
The Bank of America building makes no statement? Well maybe it doesn’t explicitly say anything, but at least it’s attractive. As for the Museum Plaza Building, what is it saying?

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 09:09 AM

The Bank of America building makes no statement? Well maybe it doesn’t explicitly say anything, but at least it’s attractive. As for the Museum Plaza Building, what is it saying?
It says that Louisville is a city that is passionate about the arts for starters. I love the museum plaza. I'd kill for it to be here instead of Louisville.

It's odd Hoss... Both of us are rabidly pro development in downtown Indy, but I never seem to agree with you.

cjfjapan

February 10th, 2006, 09:27 AM

Indy already has an 800 foot wedding cake... It's called the Chase (Bank One) Tower. I once had a German girlfriend who thought it was absolutely hilarious looking. She called "die gigantische Kücheschabe", or "The gigantic (kitchen) cockroach" because of it's antennae.

Hahaha---I call it the Bank One Bot. To me it looks like a toy robot from the 1950s...

Thanks for posting the story on Indiana Tower. if built today, it would probably have to be called the DowElanco Tower or something ugly like that.

This is from Emporis (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103082) :
Proposed in the early 1980s, this observation tower was to be the centerpiece of the White River State Park on the western edge of downtown Indianapolis, but the design was widely criticized. Many residents felt it looked like a giant corncob, while others felt it would detract from the traditional focal point of the city, Monument Circle.
- This obelisk-shaped observation tower was to have measured 130 feet in diameter at the base, 64 feet in diameter at the top, and featured an observation platform at the 150-foot level.

Here is a (bad) pic:
http://hal.lamar.edu/~eisensl/slides/C7-56.jpg

Do you think this would (have) take(n) too much emphasis from Monument Circle?

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 09:52 AM

Hahaha---I call it the Bank One Bot. To me it looks like a toy robot from the 1950s...

Thanks for posting the story on Indiana Tower. if built today, it would probably have to be called the DowElanco Tower or something ugly like that.

This is from Emporis (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103082) :
Proposed in the early 1980s, this observation tower was to be the centerpiece of the White River State Park on the western edge of downtown Indianapolis, but the design was widely criticized. Many residents felt it looked like a giant corncob, while others felt it would detract from the traditional focal point of the city, Monument Circle.
- This obelisk-shaped observation tower was to have measured 130 feet in diameter at the base, 64 feet in diameter at the top, and featured an observation platform at the 150-foot level.

Here is a (bad) pic:
http://hal.lamar.edu/~eisensl/slides/C7-56.jpg

Do you think this would (have) take(n) too much emphasis from Monument Circle?
It looks better than I remember. I had forgotten that it had a torque to it.

However, I still think we could do better... it looks rather white bread, state fair-ish frankly... but if you look at it right, it does resemble a dildo with pleasure ridges... <coughs>

I'd love to see a huge art project like this, but I'd rather see resources put towards putting in some great architecture downtown in the form of skyscrapers.

Now, if we were to put in an observation type tower in White River park, I'd really like to see design over size, and I would love to see a world class carillon or some innovative bell tower built into it. That way, we could enjoy it downtown even if we couldn't see it. I think we should bring in a local star to design it like Michael Graves.

cjfjapan

February 10th, 2006, 11:39 AM

It looks better than I remember. I had forgotten that it had a torque to it.

However, I still think we could do better... it looks rather white bread, state fair-ish frankly... but if you look at it right, it does resemble a dildo with pleasure ridges... <coughs>

I'd love to see a huge art project like this, but I'd rather see resources put towards putting in some great architecture downtown in the form of skyscrapers.

Now, if we were to put in an observation type tower in White River park, I'd really like to see design over size, and I would love to see a world class carillon or some innovative bell tower built into it. That way, we could enjoy it downtown even if we couldn't see it. I think we should bring in a local star to design it like Michael Graves.

It does look like something one might see on an episode of South Park with guest star Paris Hilton.

Im really torn about the height--I would like to have seen the iTower in relation to the present-day skyline; I think a public observation tower in WRSP would be great, though. I often take "views from high places" tours of cities--visiting all the public observation points I can. Im living in japan now, and in Sapporo, a downtown department store is building a huge ferris wheel on its roof. It will have great views...

http://www.hokkaido-np.co.jp/Photo/20060207.200602072877.jpg

I completely agree that quality must trump height; however, it seems that though the iTower might look a bit plain, from the Nuvo story it seems that most people in the know found the plans quite appealing. I am both repelled by the comparison to a corncob (as provincial) but attracted to it as well (regionalism).

Wu-Gambino

February 10th, 2006, 01:11 PM

On the tower in Louisville, I must be the only one who thinks it has almost a Detroit Renaissance Center.

http://museumplaza.net/images/skyline.jpg

http://www.detroithomesguide.com/img/detroit-skyline.jpg

Even the base is similar (I hope they don't use the base in the rendering for the Louisville plan)
http://museumplaza.net/images/Museum-Plaza.jpg

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t054/T054480A.jpg

It's unique, but I can't help thinking it's just a mixture of internationalist styled buildings thrown together in one.

February 10th, 2006, 04:37 PM

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 07:18 PM

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 07:21 PM

"It's unique, but I can't help thinking it's just a mixture of internationalist styled buildings thrown together in one."

Well said Naptown!

thehoss257

February 10th, 2006, 07:45 PM

thehoss257, just curious, what is your profession or are you in school? you always have graphics, etc. I think your interest is great; I hope you are working or plan to work in a related field.

GT, thanks for the comment! I am getting my masters in urban planning from Ball State. I currently work at a retail store in the Circle Center Mall. I would love to get in the field as soon as possible.

By the way, has anyone noticed how many stores have closed in the Circle Center Mall recently?

February 10th, 2006, 08:24 PM

doesn't Circle Center get a decent amount of traffic? but retail is a beast of its own and retailers restructure and whatever else to survive.

moochie

February 10th, 2006, 08:48 PM

moochie, did you get a reply e-mail from One Market Square yet? Also, I like your prediction but those biotech companies do locate in other cities too; maybe it depends on the incentives--pay no taxes for 20 years... I read somewhere that there are a lot of California companies that will relocate to Texas (not sure if they are biotech or not).

of course a great skyscraper would be great but I don't think it is the be-all-end-all. I was in D.C. a couple of weeks ago and was in a different part of the city I had never been in before and it was great (NW quad)! Of course we all know there are no skyscrapers in D.C. but designs of several of the low-rise/mid-rise buildings made enough of a statement; I'd rather have the empty lots of downtown become like a quasi-D.C. than skyscrapers. People don't move to cities b/c of skyscrapers; if that were the case people wouldn't move from Chicago, NYC, etc.
I got a reply from Kurt Flock himself... It always has been my experience that being a property owner helps a GREAT deal when trying to get info. It looks like groundbreaking this summer.

"Thanks for your inquiry. Things are progressing well, and we are preparing for a major new marketing push around the beginning of March. We had a terrific meeting with Mayor Peterson last Friday, and the city remains firmly behind this project. We are pleased with where we are with reservations and are poised to begin work on converting reservations to contracts very soon. At the same time, we will be introducing the new loft condos planned for the mid-rises, rolling out the affordable residences which are part of the project, making plans available for the upper floors of the tower which have not been available, and allowing people to begin selecting their finishes. We opted to dial back the marketing and advertising over the holidays when things are typically quiet anyway. We are poised to present our new "Ground Breaking Summer 2006" marketing campaign, which will be aimed at getting sales off to a quick pre-Spring selling season start. We appreciate your support and interest and hope that you will encourage your friends to visit our sales center. The best thing you and others can do to support the project is to plan on making it your home! Thanks.

Kurt L. Flock, CCIM, Vice President
FLOCK Real Estate Group
442 Massachusetts Ave.
Indianapolis, IN 46204"

cwilson758

February 10th, 2006, 08:57 PM

GT, thanks for the comment! I am getting my masters in urban planning from Ball State. I currently work at a retail store in the Circle Center Mall. I would love to get in the field as soon as possible.

By the way, has anyone noticed how many stores have closed in the Circle Center Mall recently?

I have! The weird thing though is that the turn-over at that mall has always been high. Most aren't empty for long and a lot of times it doesn't have to do with low sales, rather Simon not renewing leases.

February 10th, 2006, 09:12 PM

not sure which stores left but perhaps Simon wants Circle Center to be a quasi-luxury mall (not the full deal).

Can someone please go by One Market Square office and take a pic of all sides of the model!!!! Can anyone speculate on why they reserved selling the top floors?

I am excited about this but much more about Penn tower!!! :) I am getting somewhat confident that Mr. Allen & Cannon will not pass on this opportunity; especially since moochie said the historic restrictions where scaled back.

CorrND

February 10th, 2006, 11:46 PM

Moochie, I think we often disagree because I value order, context and beauty while you seem to support unencumbered artistic expression, good, bad or ugly.

My guess is that you drool over anything ever designed by Rem Koolhaas or Frank Gehry.

Am I wrong here people? Does anyone else think that building looks like a train wreck?

I'm all for more adventurous architecture, but I agree that the Louisville building is damned ugly. I would never want that anywhere in Indianapolis.

cjfjapan

February 11th, 2006, 01:44 AM

If it were up to CORR and HOSS, we'd still be living in log cabins; nay, a lean-to in the forest. Jeepers Christ, look beyond the design--the place will house a fantastic museum and a 22nd floor public observatory. Would you rather have a corniced box with a schmalzy eatery at the top?

The beloved order of the Indy skyline was pieced together after two decades of disorder. The Museum Plaza is a re-ordering of the Lville skyline; hopefully when the time comes for that to happen in Indy, we can have some cutting edge architecture, not buildings recycled from the 1980s.

Indyman

February 11th, 2006, 02:54 AM

cjfjapan

February 11th, 2006, 05:58 AM

But when people look back on this type of architecture what will they say? Will they say, this is still nice and appreciate it. Or will it be like some hideous 60s and 70s buildings where people just stare and say WTF?

I would want an entire city built in this style, but carefully conceived structure that is well integrated into the urban fabric (though not the existing urban design) would be a challenge. Maybe people would hate it in 30 who knows? Maybe everyone will want to live in a split level ranch in Plainfield. At least it will give them something to compare to

...its just one building! :) One funky ass queer building in a big city...

thehoss257

February 11th, 2006, 05:55 PM

I have! The weird thing though is that the turn-over at that mall has always been high. Most aren't empty for long and a lot of times it doesn't have to do with low sales, rather Simon not renewing leases.

Cory you are right. Simon seems to do a good job of getting new tenants. None of the stores were irreplaceable, and this might give Simon a chance to improve the mix. I would at least like to see an electronics store of some sort, a book store, a home furnishing store or two, and a music store.

The following are a few of the stores that have closed in the last few months. the majority of the stores closed in January. There may be a couple others that I can't remember.

Bag 'n Baggage
Double Day Bookstore
Sbarro
Sam Goody
White Barn Candle Company
Old Navy
Franklin Covey
Great American Cookie Co.

thehoss257

February 11th, 2006, 08:13 PM

I’ve been thinking about designing a series of post cards that point out the ridiculousness of suburban development. As far as I know, images of conventional suburban development rarely find their way on to post cards. I think it would be great come up with a series of these with suburban development on one side and urban on the other. On the bottom fold of this “post card” there could be a quick description of the differences between urban/new urban/smart growth development and conventional suburban development. I would try to be somewhat fair, but wouldnt go overboard. In addition, references to other resources and contact information to local planning departments could be provided.

Suburban Style
http://static.flickr.com/26/97814126_9211ff51c4_o.jpg
Smart Growth Style
http://static.flickr.com/23/97814125_662507d6b7_o.jpg

Anyway, I noticed that a couple of you are great photographers. If any of you have any interest in providing any high quality images for a project like this let me know.

February 11th, 2006, 09:23 PM

thehoss, check your private messages please.

Wu-Gambino

February 11th, 2006, 11:04 PM

thehoss: I have pics from almost evey side of town. If you need pic of ugly vinyl houses or auto oriented developement, it woudln't be a problem, I live out in Avon (don't get me started). PM me if you are interested.

VanillaVille

February 12th, 2006, 12:49 AM

It looks to me with all of the negative discussion about the Louisville tower lately that we're seeing jealousy rear it's ugly head. Face it, you'd all give anything to have that project in Indy, and you're upset that itty-bitty Louisville is getting it instead.

Granted nobody outside of New York or Chicago would ever actually want that design in their city simply because it's enormous ugliness would become "the" downtown for any city where it was built, obscuring everything else.

But you know that you'd kill to get a 700-foot tall mixed-use tower built in Indy.

VanillaVille

February 12th, 2006, 12:54 AM

BTW, what ever happened to Gych? Is he banned? I used to enjoy seeing him and CWilson go at it every other day.

He got banned. But don't worry he's still around. He's ppassafi on Skyscraperpage.com, and he's been busy over there lately since he can't annoy us with his blinding ignorance here anymore.

KM1410

February 12th, 2006, 01:31 AM

MasonsInquiries

February 12th, 2006, 03:48 AM

http://museumplaza.net/images/Museum-Plaza.jpg

this looks horrible. and saying that is an understatement. i'm really trying to give it the benefit of the doubt, but i can't. it looks like a stack of uneven legos...lol

chindy

February 12th, 2006, 04:09 AM

Is this thing approved or just proposed, every one seems to be talking like it's approved. If it is, kinda came outta nowhere didn't it?

moochie

February 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Is this thing approved or just proposed, every one seems to be talking like it's approved. If it is, kinda came outta nowhere didn't it?
It's just in the proposal stage, but apparently it's been financed by local billionaires who have the city government of Louisville wrapped around their collective finger, so approval is a foregone conclusion.

Or so we've been told.

cwilson758

February 12th, 2006, 05:12 PM

I WOULD love to have a 700-foot mixed use tower proposed here...BUT NOT THAT DAMN THING. Sorry, but Louisville can have it. The plaza, the "elevator" the spaces, all of it, crap. This thing will be a colossal mistake in 15 years. I would much rather have 400-500' tower well integrated with the city than that.

Indyman

February 12th, 2006, 08:51 PM

True. People down the road are gonna look back and say WTF, what were they smoking.

billionbucks

February 12th, 2006, 10:00 PM

billionbucks

February 12th, 2006, 10:00 PM

KM1410

February 13th, 2006, 06:10 AM

Kosene's Broad Ripple project approved despite objections

A 28-unit condominium project proposed for Broad Ripple was approved by the Marion County Metropolitan Development Commission on Feb. 1, despite objections from residents and a recommendation of denial by the Marion County Hearing Examiner.

Kosene & Kosene Residential's $7.5 million project calls for condos in several buildings between Winthrop Avenue and the Monon Trail south of Broad Ripple Avenue. Design plans call for the buildings to resemble the arts-and-crafts style of north-side bungalows.

Neighborhood groups argued that the size of the buildings--2-1/2 stories high--and the density of the 1.43-acre project weren't in keeping with the character of Broad Ripple Village and violated the master plan for the village.

In recommending denial of the project on Jan. 12, the Hearing Examiner cited both objections.

"The proposed density simply was too high despite commendable efforts of [Kosene] to minimize any negative effect on the surrounding area residences," the examiner wrote.

The project sits amid mostly single-family residences just south of Broad Ripple's main business district.

A second Kosene proposal for condos at 66th and Ferguson streets is scheduled for a hearing before the MDC on Feb. 15. The $5 million project was recommended for approval by the Hearing Examiner on Jan. 26. Neighborhood groups appealed the recommendation, seeking a full public hearing before the MDC.

That project, near Kosene's 75-unit Monon Row project, calls for 23 condos on 0.76 acres.

http://64.255.242.145/rew/html/rew_story1_020706.html

KM1410

February 13th, 2006, 06:15 AM

Omni Severin seeks lot for expansion
Downtown parking garage, grand ballroom on drawing board

The Omni Severin Hotel has confirmed it’s negotiating to buy the surface parking lot immediately east of the hotel, which it wants to redevelop into a parking garage capped by a 12,000-square-foot ballroom.

Tourism officials love the idea, but some parking lot managers say it’s unnecessary.

“We’re buying it for a reason,” said Chris Ratay, the hotel’s area director of sales and marketing. “This would allow us to have our own parking facility.”

Today, the hotel’s valets run across the street to retrieve visitors’ cars below Pan American Plaza. The 21,600-square-foot lot is valued for tax purposes at $1.3 million, according to city records. It’s owned by Bob Borns, the real estate developer best known for redeveloping downtown’s Union Station in the 1980s.

Borns and his company, Indianapolis-based Borns Management Corp., did not return calls seeking comment.

Phil Ray, the Omni’s general manager, confirmed negotiations are ongoing and should conclude within 75 days. He predicted construction would take 12 to 18 months.

The hotel has hired an architect to draw up preliminary plans for the site that call for two underground levels of parking, two above-ground levels of parking, and a rooftop ballroom. The structure might include ground-floor retail as well, Ray said.

It’s unclear how much the structure would cost.

There are 61 parking spots in the existing surface lot, but with the addition of ramps, any garage the Omni built would have about 50 spots per level, or a total of about 200 spaces, Ray said. The spaces would be for hotel guests as well as the public.

Parking facilities typically cost $12,000 to $15,000 per spot above ground and $25,000 to $30,000 below ground, said Fred Laughlin, director of management services for Indianapolis Downtown Inc. That means the garage could cost anywhere from $3.7 million to $4.5 million, not including the ballroom or the land.

Tourism officials would love to see the investment.

“No question, this is an expansion of one of our prime properties downtown that will continue the strong reputation Indianapolis has of offering a flexible, convenient and accessible convention package,” said Bob Schultz, spokesman for the Indianapolis Convention and Visitors Association.

Omni officials say the move is necessary if it wants to compete with other downtown hotels that offer large meeting rooms. The Omni’s largest ballroom is 3,000 feet. The hotel sometimes supplements that space by staging events in the Grand Hall of nearby Union Station.

By contrast, the Indianapolis Marriott Downtown has a 21,000-square-foot ballroom. The Westin Indianapolis has a 17,000-square-foot meeting space and the Crowne Plaza Hotel at Union Station has an 11,445-square-foot room.

“This expansion raises the Omni flag even higher,” Schultz said. “It dramatically jumps them into the mix of other convention and meeting hotels.”

Some parking operators don’t share Shultz’s enthusiasm.

“There’s plenty of parking right now,” said Barry Whidduck, president of Indianapolis-based Express Parking Inc., which manages about 3,500 parking spots in the city.

Others disagree.

“The Omni doesn’t have their own parking facility, so yes, they could probably use one,” Laughlin said. He said Pan Am Plaza is close to full each day and has seen an increase in patronage in recent months from employees of Eli Lilly and Co., which has offices to the south.

If the deal goes through, the Omni’s plans will have to get approval from the Indianapolis Historic Preservation Commission.

The hotel hasn’t filed its plans, so David Baker, the commission’s administrator, said it’s too early to comment whether the design would win approval.

If it looks anything like the hotel, however, it’ll probably sail past the commission.

“When the Omni was restored [in 1990], they did a great job of focusing on the historic architecture and allowing the new to be driven by the old,” said Tina Connor, executive vice president of the Historic Landmarks Foundation. “I would hope that whatever [the Omni] does on that corner would maintain that ethic.”

It will, Ray said.

“Our intention would be to maintain the historic feel,” he said. “We would make sure it ties together with our existing property.”

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/1/Img/Pc0010500.jpg

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/40/Img/Pc0400300.jpg

KM1410

February 13th, 2006, 06:25 AM

Developer casts eye beyond downtown
New company led by Brian Knapp to look beyond condos in metro area

A former Simon Property Group Inc. executive known in recent years for downtown condominium developments is launching a new development company that puts him closer to his retail roots.

Brian F. Knapp, president of Dinmont Development LLC, recently created Diverse Development Co. LLC to focus on real estate beyond downtown’s borders.

He’ll continue to serve as Dinmont’s president at least until its current projects are completed. Those projects, both joint ventures with locally based Hearthview Residential Inc., are the 40-unit second phase of Mill No. 9 condos and the 97-unit Lockerbie Park development, which is set to start construction in a few weeks.

While those are wrapping up in the coming years, Knapp will be scouting retail, office and land development opportunities outside downtown for Diversified, he said.

As for Dinmont’s remaining 1.7 acres in Lockerbie Park and Chatham Arch, Knapp is looking to sell them or form a joint venture to develop them. When that’s taken care of and when the Mill No. 9 and Lockerbie Park projects are finished, Dinmont will be finished, too, Knapp said.

It will leave its mark on the east side of downtown, however, where Dinmont has played a major part in downtown’s condominium boom. In the past five years, the developer and others have transformed vacant lots and dilapidated buildings into some of the city’s highest-priced condos.

Dinmont and Hearthview have “helped inject new life into that College Avenue corridor,” said Terry Sweeney, vice president of real estate for Indianapolis Downtown Inc. “They’re taking it from largely industrial and vacant structures into a residential center.”

Lockerbie Park will take mostly vacant land and create 97 condos and more than 9,000 square feet of retail space in two buildings. Construction financing for the $28 million project is expected to close in the coming week, Knapp said, with construction to begin soon after. Complete buildout is expected to take about four years.

Mill No. 9, on the west side of College Avenue just south of Massachusetts Avenue, is in its second phase. The 44-unit first phase sold out last fall, a year and a half after construction began. The project converted former factory buildings once used by Real Silk Hosiery into loft-style condos priced from $140,000 to more than $400,000.

The success of that project has sparked additional development nearby, Sweeney noted. At 757 Massachusetts Ave., just north of Mill No. 9, the Beilouny family is working on a seven-story condo project with 27 units and 9,000 square feet of retail space. On the east side of College, two condo projects, Spring Street Condos and College Place, are under construction or soon to begin.

Dinmont has its roots in 2nd Globe Structures LLC, a partnership formed in 2000 to develop three acres straddling the Lockerbie Square and Chatham Arch neighborhoods. In early 2001, 2nd Globe purchased the Mill No. 9 buildings, then owned by locally based Hilltop Press.

2nd Globe included principals of Young and Laramore advertising agency, including Y and L President Paul Knapp. They tapped Paul’s brother Brian, then a vice president of development at Simon, to lead development of a massive mixed-use development with residential, retail and 100,000 square feet of office space. That plan fell apart after the office market softened and after an investor left the partnership.

The partnership changed its name in 2002 to Dinmont and began seeking other opportunities for the land. The firm began working with Hearthview on Mill No. 9 in 2004.

The sole partner in Dinmont now is an unidentified out-of-state investor. In addition to serving as its president, Knapp said he also has an interest in Dinmont’s projects, but not in the partnership.

With Diversified, Knapp will be the only member of the partnership with voting interest, although there are other members who serve as non-voting investors, he said.

“Diverse is Brian Knapp’s company. Dinmont was an investor’s company,” he said.

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/6/Img/Pc0060200.jpg

KM1410

February 13th, 2006, 06:30 AM

Hospital preps for construction

Clarian Health Partners will start demolition work in the next month to make way for the 10-story tower it plans to build at Riley Hospital for Children.

Hospital officials have blocked off the old office space they plan to demolish to make way for the $225 million project, and they expect to hold a ground breaking this summer, Clarian spokesman Jon Mills said.

Clarian plans to fill the tower mostly with private patient rooms and beds for patients recovering from surgery. The Riley Children’s Foundation will raise $50 million for the construction, with the hospital network using mostly bond proceeds to pay for the rest of the project.

The tower should be completed in late 2008, Mills said.

Riley’s atrium will host a 12-foot-tall “project wall” that will feature video clips and other construction news to keep visitors and employees updated on project progress, Mills said. The hospital plans to unveil the wall Feb. 13.

Aside from Riley, Indianapolis-based Clarian includes Methodist Hospital and Indiana University Hospital and medical centers in Carmel and Avon.

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/15/Img/Pc0150900.jpg
Riley Hospital for Children is drawing closer to the start of its expansion.

moochie

February 13th, 2006, 06:30 AM

Omni Severin seeks lot for expansion
Downtown parking garage, grand ballroom on drawing board

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/1/Img/Pc0010500.jpg

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/40/Img/Pc0400300.jpg

The Omni is the hotel thought to have the most interest in building a 1000 room hotel on Pan Am Plaza.... Not too surprising that they're increasing their parking capacity if they think they'll need it... or if their current parking arrangement underground at Pan Am Plaza was about to disappear...

KM1410

February 13th, 2006, 06:33 AM

Luna Music forms a trio

Meridian Kessler residents may not be getting a grocery store anytime soon, but they’ll be able to rock out while they wait.

Local music guru Todd Robinson, owner of Luna Music, will open his third Indianapolis store at 52nd Street and College Avenue in late March. The site is two blocks south of the infamous empty Atlas grocery.

“That corridor … is just ripening up so much,” Robinson said. “From 52nd Street south down to 49th, there seems to be a lot of development.”

Luna has two Indianapolis locations: 1315 W. 86th St. and 431 Massachusetts Ave.

The new space is 2,000 square feet. That’s 800 feet bigger than the downtown store and 1,500 feet smaller than the northside location.

Ironically, the business is growing on the heels of an announcement that music giant Sam Goody is closing.

Sam Goody’s parent company, Minneapolis-based Musicland Holding Corp., said Feb. 1 that it will close 226 of the music stores nationwide. That includes a local outlet at Circle Centre mall.

Robinson said being the underdog plays to his advantage at a time when music downloading is taking a bite out of other record stores.

“We can get product quicker than some of the online sources,” he said. “We don’t have a lot of corporate red tape.”

That means he doesn’t charge shipping on CDs. And he can get them in stock overnight—sometimes within hours.

Previously, the space on College Avenue housed Recollections Antiques and Collectibles.

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/02/13/15/Img/Pc0150800.jpg
Luna Music will open its third Indianapolis store in late March.

unvrsty07

February 13th, 2006, 08:21 AM

Where could I find renderings of the Riley Hospital tower expansion?

NaptownBoy

February 13th, 2006, 03:06 PM

Ha ha, too bad for Gycch. :) And that pile of boxes proposed for downtown Louisville has to be the worst fucking building I have ever seen...recently, anyway. I hope they wont build no shit like that here in Indianapolis, although we damn near had a 700 foot tall corncob downtown 26 years ago.

CorrND

February 13th, 2006, 04:33 PM

Where could I find renderings of the Riley Hospital tower expansion?

I believe this is the best you can do for right now (click on the .pdf link):

http://www.clarian.org/portal/patients/news?clarianContentID=/health/announcements/20050829_rileyplan.xml

Can anybody find anything better?

cwilson758

February 13th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Peter Dean doesn't want a 28-unit condo development to tower above his Broad Ripple home.

A 60-year-old retiree, Dean said the condominiums proposed for next door would be too big, too high and too close to the street and the Monon Trail, and generally out of character with the 6100 block of Winthrop Avenue.
Having lived on the tree-lined street of bungalows for more than 20 years, Dean is doing what he can to fight the condo project.
His skirmish is part of a larger war over zoning decisions that is playing out before a nine-member board, called the Metropolitan Development Commission, which makes decisions on rezoning proposals.
Some neighborhood groups are accusing the commission of paving the way for development by rubber-stamping proposals with little regard for community objections or county plans for managing growth.
Examining rezoning activity in the first 10 months of 2005, the Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations said it found that 57 of 63 development requests were approved for changes that were at odds with the county's comprehensive growth plan. That plan was put together with volunteer input from hundreds of interested parties from across Marion County over many years.
The MDC was responsible for approving 33 of those requests. The remainder were approved without the commission's involvement.
Deviations from the comprehensive plan have led to several confrontations on the Northside in recent months. A Whole Foods natural grocery store proposed for 86th Street and Haverstick Road has Nora residents up in arms, and a development on former Crown Hill Cemetery land has neighbors in Butler-Tarkington in a stir.
Tonight, the City-County Council represents the last chance to put the brakes on what Dean called the "unbridled greed" of the developer and the complicity of the commission in the Broad Ripple battle.
Neighborhood groups, city planners and a zoning hearing examiner agreed with Dean. They all said the condo plan looked great but shouldn't be squeezed into that block.
The lawyer for the developer, Kosene and Kosene, and one resident, who is selling her property to the developer, said the condos would improve the block by changing the property from unsightly rentals to owner-occupied units.
Dean said he was "dumbfounded" when the commission voted 4-3 in favor of the development on Feb. 1.
"We need to preserve our village and maintain its character," he said. "The proposal is just way out of whack with everything else that is there."
City planners and commission members note that comprehensive plans constitute only one of five elements the law requires them to consider. They must balance the developer's desires with the neighbors' by also weighing a property's current conditions, most desirable use, reasonable growth and conservation of property values.
"There have always been controversial cases that frustrate both sides," said Maury Plambeck, director of the city's Department of Metropolitan Development. "As a rule, I think Indianapolis is growing in a positive manner, which is the goal of the comprehensive plan."
But critics think developers are running roughshod over the plan -- and the commission. The growth plan provides the basis and rationale behind all zoning law, which is designed to ensure the use of private property benefits the community as a whole. A property's zoning designates its legal use, such as for commercial, residential or industrial purposes. Landowners who want to rezone a property must submit their requests to the commission.
"The comprehensive plan is supposed to be a guideline," said Jim Holland, a Broad Ripple lawyer opposed to the condo development. "The plan is supposed to be the dog and the developer the tail. We have a situation where the tail is wagging the dog."
Robert Shula, a commission member who supported the condo plan, said he had known for years that the block under consideration was full of rental homes, and some were not well-maintained. He said he didn't understand the reasoning of the project's foes because the condos would be higher in quality than the existing homes.
Sylvia Trotter, the president of the commission, said she takes the comprehensive plans seriously and knows how passionately people may feel about their community. Developers sometimes lose out as well, depending on the merits of each individual case, she said.
"What is most important to me (is), is it bringing value to the neighborhood?" said Trotter, who voted against the Broad Ripple proposal. "We are put in the awesome position of trying to decide between the comprehensive plan and where it would be good to deviate from it. There's no easy solution."
Ray Good, an attorney who represents developers in zoning cases, agreed. He said the commission has voted against him in some tough decisions but listens to both sides.
"It's a classic confrontation between those who don't like change and the developers willing to take a risk to create markets," Good said.
Mayor Bart Peterson, who appointed four of the commission members, said he has heard the complaints from neighborhood groups and takes them seriously. He declined to say whether he planned to take any action.
Pat Andrews, vice president of the Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations, said the group put together its report on zoning decisions because it wanted to provide evidence of a pattern. Otherwise, each neighborhood that lost a zoning decisions could only offer anecdotal evidence that the county was not following its growth plan.
"When the commission pulls one case at a time and considers it without any master plan, they destabilize neighborhoods," Andrews said.

How it works

Every year, about 200 rezoning proposals in Marion County can go through several layers of scrutiny. Here's a look at the system:

• The Department of Metropolitan Development planning staff reviews every proposal, as can members of the public. If no one is opposed, the proposal is sped through the process.

• A hearing examiner hears the proposal in response to any objections, then makes a recommendation based on a report from city planners and a presentation of the arguments. If someone remonstrates, or objects, against a proposed development or a developer disagrees with the examiner's decision, either side can appeal.

• The Metropolitan Development Commission, a nine-member board of appointed volunteers, considers staff and hearing examiner reports, as well as the comprehensive plan for the county's growth and a property's current conditions, most desirable use, conservation of property values and how much growth is deemed reasonable.

• The City-County Council also must approve the proposal. Foes must persuade a council member to call the proposal to a vote, which could send it to a hearing process within the council. The commissioners are appointed by the mayor, council and Commissioners.How it works

If you go

The City-County Council meets at 7 p.m. tonight in the Public Assembly Room on the second floor of the City-County Building, 200 E. Washington St.

When I was a Staff Planner, this is what I did daily. Certainly, there are some merits to what McANA and other groups are saying with regards to a "disregard" of the Comp Plan...BUT, many parts of the Plan have not been updated since 1990! Why so long you ask? Because these very neighborhood groups have "hijacked" the update that was to be completed FIVE YEARS AGO. The Staff made new recommendations for the entire county and many groups opposed those (a lot of higher-density recommendations were proposed). Therefore, they have done everything humanly possible to delay the 2000 update. That's right, the 2000 update...and its 2006. So, certainly, many "new"proposal are at odds with the Comp Plan...its 16 years old! DUH.

February 14th, 2006, 01:05 AM

February 14th, 2006, 01:09 AM

February 14th, 2006, 01:10 AM

Conrad is now hiring...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060213/BUSINESS/602130345

February 14th, 2006, 01:15 AM

Conrad is now hiring (pic in article)...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060213/BUSINESS/602130345

moochie

February 14th, 2006, 03:54 AM

re: Simon HQ, i think Ratio Architects did a wonderful job with the re-design; last time i drove be it I couldn't help but stare at it and study the different elevations. they window design & mullion placement gives it a non-suburban look. i don't know why an Atlanta/non-local firm was chosen in the first place.
I agree. I hadn't realized from looking at the renderings that so much stainless steel would be used on the building. It gives a classy feel imho. I can't wait to see it with the spire. It doesn't look like they'll be putting those holes in the ceiling of the balcony thingy on top though. They look pretty in the rendering, but I suppose they kind of defeat the purpose of having a roof up there...

I actually know the guy who is in charge of integrating the building into the park... ie; seating areas, landscaping retail front, making it not clash with the fountain etc. He's got a pretty tough job but an important one. If he does it well, the Simon tower could really enhance the park and increase foot traffic as people from the convention center trickle over to visit the (probable) coffee shop/cafe.

Some people may see it as blasphemy because that park was one of Orr's babies, but I always thought it was just really badly placed. the only people who ever visited the park were a few people who walked over to see the fountain from the Westin. With retail, it'll have a true high density urban feel.

Wu-Gambino

February 14th, 2006, 04:01 AM

moochie

February 14th, 2006, 04:23 AM

Speaking of the area between the Simon Building/Capitol Buidling/Capitol Commons, could we please turn the north parking lot at the Capitol into a park or a memorial? It kills the beauty of the area around the Capitol.
You're talking about the sliver of parking on the site itself, not any of the huge parking lots to the north right? Those are too valuable and have too much potential for high rise projects to become a park imho..

If so, I agree. I'd like to see it turned into an underground lot with landscaping on top to match the rest of the Statehouse site. It costs around $25,000 per space to build a garage underground, so I assume that's what's kept that rather obvious improvement from happening.

unvrsty07

February 14th, 2006, 07:16 AM

I believe this is the best you can do for right now
http://www.clarian.org/portal/patie...9_rileyplan.xml
Thank You

thehoss257

February 14th, 2006, 09:02 AM

Peter Dean doesn't want a 28-unit condo development to tower above his Broad Ripple home.

When I was a Staff Planner, this is what I did daily. Certainly, there are some merits to what McANA and other groups are saying with regards to a "disregard" of the Comp Plan...BUT, many parts of the Plan have not been updated since 1990! Why so long you ask? Because these very neighborhood groups have "hijacked" the update that was to be completed FIVE YEARS AGO. The Staff made new recommendations for the entire county and many groups opposed those (a lot of higher-density recommendations were proposed). Therefore, they have done everything humanly possible to delay the 2000 update. That's right, the 2000 update...and its 2006. So, certainly, many "new"proposal are at odds with the Comp Plan...its 16 years old! DUH.

Cory, I agree!!! My frustration is that as far as I understand the comprehensive plan and the zoning ordinance is a based on a suburban model. I understand that a mixed-use or village category has been added to the zoning tool box, but overall it's still very suburban. I would love to see the whole thing scraped and replaced by a Smart Growth model using transects. Do you think this will ever happen? If not why?

I am tired of attending comprehensive plan meetings only to have unbelievably dumbed downed discussions about density and congestion. It all seems so pointless to have the community argue over the location of arbitrarily defined single family, industrial, commercial and multi family pods.

Duany Plater-Zyberk: Smart Code (this makes so much sense)
http://www.dpz.com/pdf/SmartCodeV7.0-6-06-05.pdf

It seems to me that no one in this city is educating the public or community groups about alternatives to the conventional suburban model. I've seen other communities, bring in nationally recognized planning experts such as Andres Duany or Peter Calthorpe to educate their citizens.

Carmel, our wealthy neighbor to the north is doing an excellent job educating their citizens on the benefits of Smart Growth. In the past five years Mayor Brainard has become a tireless supporter of New Urbanism and Smart Growth planning principals. He and the city's planning department seem to be getting more daring and principled every day. The crazy thing is the residents seem to be very supportive. Our planning efforts seem complacent and week. I wish our mayor cared about our built environment.

Video: Carmel’s Urban Design Initiative (an example of Carmel’s forward thinking planning department and mayor)
mms://sms3.omniproductions.net/Urban%20Design1a.wmv

I know I sound pessimistic but that is the way I see it. Am I wrong?

By the way, I don’t want to bash Indy’s planning department. I know that most of our planners are very intelligent and foreword thinking. Plus, I think they probably could use a more funding and support.

unvrsty07

February 14th, 2006, 06:40 PM

That Carmel Urban Design Initiative video was fantastic, thanks for sharing.

February 15th, 2006, 02:03 AM

i found this on SSP, posted by mobyhead. he must not know about this site b/c he said the site was slow. i can't logon in that site so can someone else put a post with the link to this site, please. he has good info--the inside scoop!
The article mentions Brian Epstein, principal of Indianapolis-based Urban Space Commercial Properties. has anyone worked with/interacted with him before (his website needs a lot more)?

Lafayette Square, others struggle in changing retail world

By Tammy Lieber, The IBJ
tlieber@ibj.com

Lafayette Square Mall on the city’s northwest side has all the marks of a decaying urban mall: Most major national retailers have fled, a church occupies a former department store space, and the surrounding neighborhood has fallen out of favor among shoppers and businesses.

But is the mall destined for a date with a bulldozer, as has happened with old malls in other cities?

Not everyone thinks so. Lafayette Square still has good access from Interstate 65, apparently committed ownership by locally based Simon Property Group, and a location in an area poised for revitalization through incentives and a planned Wal-Mart SuperCenter.

“Lafayette Square, demographically, is fine,” said Clint Fultz, a principal of Prime-Site Brokers and co-owner of a former Cub Foods building outside the mall that now houses a grocery store and movie theater. “It’s just developed on an old retail model.”

What’s needed, Fultz said, is more redevelopment of outlots and parcels around the mall to focus on entertainment-oriented businesses, such as restaurants.

“Most malls today have a tremendous symbiotic relationship with restaurants,” he said. “That was not the case in the ’60s [when Lafayette Square was built].”

Occupancy at the mall was 87.1 percent at the end of 2004, the most recent numbers available. By comparison, average occupancy at Simon’s malls was 92.7 percent at the end of 2004. Then, as now, Lafayette Square’s anchors include Sears, L.S. Ayres, Steve & Barry’s and Burlington Coat Factory.

A church occupies part of a former Lazarus store. A former J.C. Penney remains vacant, as does a closed movie theater on an outlot. Kittle’s Rooms Express recently shuttered its store at the mall.

Some national retailers, such as Foot Locker and Bath & Body Works, occupy space in between the anchors, but a host of local and regional tenants, such as International Luggage and Charming Gold, fill many of the mall’s smaller stores.

Simon officials said no announcements regarding Lafayette Square are imminent, but merchants in the area say the company is involved with community business groups focused on ways to revitalize the struggling retail corridor. It’s also unlike Simon to admit defeat and throw in the towel on a property, retail experts said—although the company did just that with Eastgate Consumer Mall on the east side, which it sold to North Carolina investor Heywood Whichard. The former mall now sits vacant after Whichard’s failed revitalization attempt.

If the fate of other malls across the country are any indication, the days of Lafayette Square as a traditional mall may be numbered. While urban malls continue to thrive in large population centers like Atlanta and Washington, D.C., smaller cities struggle to support such malls. Many are in neighborhoods that, like the Lafayette Square area, were once considered suburban but have lost high income residents and the retailers that cater to them to newer suburbs farther from the city center.

In Kansas City, Kan., for instance, the Indian Springs Marketplace is now home to various civic and not-for-profit ventures, such as a minority business enterprise center, after several stalled attempts to breathe new retail life into the mall, including an effort to populate it with retailers catering to the city’s Hispanic population.

Closer to home, Southtown Mall in Fort Wayne eventually was razed after Simon and other owners failed to revive it. Now the former mall site and the area around it is experiencing a retail rebirth, but with big-box retailers such as Wal-Mart and Home Depot instead of mall anchors like department stores.

In Hammond, city officials and owner Praedium Development Corp. are planning to demolish Woodmar Mall, opened in 1954, in stages and redevelop the land, probably as a strip center, The Times of Northwest Indiana reported last week. Department store Carson Pirie Scott is expected to anchor the development.

National trend

Across the country, more and more urban malls are facing substantial changes, said Barry Pener, senior vice president of Kansas City, Mo.-based Harold Pener Men’s Wear, which has one of its 31 stores catering to urban males at Lafayette Square.

“It’s starting to happen more in middletier cities of Indianapolis’ size,” said Pener, who added the company has no plans to close its Lafayette Square store. “In large population centers like Atlanta and Washington, D.C., there are enough African-Americans in a city to support an urban mall.”

The phenomenon of the urban mall puts Simon in a somewhat unfamiliar position. The company’s 286 U.S. malls include some of the best-performing and bestknown centers in the nation, from the Forum Shoppes in Las Vegas and the Mall of America in Minnesota to premium outlet centers it gained through its 2004 acquisition of Chelsea. In Indianapolis, Simon’s Fashion Mall at Keystone at the Crossing has consistently brought high-end tenants, such as Pottery Barn and Tiffany’s, to Indianapolis.

Rather than treating Lafayette Square like the ugly stepchild of its portfolio, however, tenants and neighbors say company officials are eager to work with them.

“It’s a real working relationship with the Simons,” said Deacon Steve Nelson, chief operating officer and chief financial officer of New Life Worship Centers Inc., a Lafayette Square tenant. “Their philanthropic philosophy seems to help us. It’s been a good thing for both of us.”

Since mid-2004, New Life has operated one of its three locations in the former Lazarus store at Lafayette Square. The church draws hundreds of worshippers every week to the mall, filling the parking lot and providing an estimated 15,000 extra shoppers at the mall each month, Nelson said.

New Life recently worked out a deal to purchase Traders Point Christian Church at 7860 Lafayette Road, but has no plans to close its mall location when it moves to Traders Point later this year, Nelson said. In fact, the church is working on expansion, taking up the entire 40,000-square-foot first floor of the former Lazarus store and building an entrance linking the church with the inside of the mall. New Life eventually wants to expand into the second floor of the former Lazarus.

Rent at the mall is “very affordable,” Nelson said, but the church pays for most improvements to its space, such as restriping the parking lot, landscaping and interior renovations. The church will spend more than $400,000 on its expansion.

The Wal-Mart effect

Like others in the Lafayette Square area, Nelson said he sees nothing but opportunity for the northwest-side corridor around the mall. The city of Indianapolis has been upgrading major roads in the area, and a Community Revitalization and Enhancement District announced in 2004 promises to send tax money collected in the district back to the area for redevelopment efforts.

The district’s biggest success thus far came from Wal-Mart Stores Inc., which late last year firmed up plans to build a Super-Center near the Lafayette Road and Interstate 65 interchange, just north of the mall.

It may take a few years to realize the benefits of the SuperCenter, slated to open in 2007, but they will come, Fultz said. Not only will some new businesses want to locate in the area to tap into the traffic generated by a Wal-Mart, but the store, through its sales and payroll taxes, will generate more money to be funneled back into redevelopment efforts, he said.

Like other business owners and landlords, Simon will be able to apply for some of the CRED money should it choose to rehab or redevelop Lafayette Square.

Despite the traffic and interest Wal-Mart will generate, it still doesn’t change the fact that most retailers will continue to pick newer suburbs such as Avon and Plainfield over 38th Street and Lafayette Road, said Brian Epstein, principal of Indianapolis-based Urban Space Commercial Properties.

Whether it happens sooner or later, Epstein said he predicts big changes in store for the mall, such as redevelopment of the outlots around the mall, which now include a shuttered movie theater, closed retail stores and mechanic’s shops, or demolishing all or part of the mall in favor of more free-standing big boxes.

“I don’t think Wal-Mart is going to be the savior of the west side and Lafayette Square,” he said.

Wu-Gambino

February 15th, 2006, 04:29 AM

unvrsty07

February 15th, 2006, 06:16 AM

^^^ I agree with you Naptown hell of a coppy-cat idea :)

cwilson758

February 15th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Naptown...I would join in a heartbeat! This is something I too have thought about for a while. When I was on Staff, I would always wonder..."where are the 'pro-higher density people' besides us planners?"

I also know the process to actually get a "city recognized group" created. I may stubble through it, but I have been involved in the past.

"I nominate Naptown as president of the Urban Indianapolis Coalition. Do I hear a second?"

cwilson758

February 15th, 2006, 04:09 PM

theHoss-

You are correct, Indy's ordinances, past comp plans, they are all suburban oriented. The City's ordinances are basically the same ones from UniGov, just with admendments. I do have faith in the planner who's job it is to keep them updated. You might remember Tammara Tracey, a former TA for Pike Township. She has a back ground in planning and is behind Indy winning the "billboard" battle that went to the high court.

February 15th, 2006, 06:01 PM

a contact I have with the company doing the study for the rapid transit system stated that they were going to put together proposals for people to consider selling their property. if it all works out, and it may not be 100%, those areas should be TODs (transit-oriented developments) with good density.

is the billboard battle the one that banned billboads inside I-465?

unvrsty07

February 16th, 2006, 03:19 AM

I second it, lol, lets seriously organize this thing, Naptown if you have vision on where you want to go, then take the lead and lets get the ball rolling.

billionbucks

February 16th, 2006, 05:09 AM

isn't the indpls regional 2020 plan going to be adopted in a few months? so are the townhomes/condos going to get built or what?

also, i was looking at the old thread about the 10th anniversary of Circle Center and how other cities with malls have seen failures. does anyone forsee problems? KM1410, since you live in Carmel, do you (or your fellow Carmelites) sense a lack of decrease of support since the opening of Clay Terrace, etc.?

good news about Sallie Mae adding jobs to Munice (although they aren't paying double digits). the economic development folk are wokring hard? for indy or central indiana, do you all think they are looking for enough industry variety? is there too much emphasis on life sciences?

also, has anyone driven by Keystone at the crossing via 465 lately? have they started building a new builiding north of I-465 yet?

Currently I am a student at Ball State, and residents of Muncie are really excited about Sallie Mae adding so many jobs to this area. It is much needed.

By the way, since I am on the Ball State/Muncie subject, have any of you seen the designs for the new buildings popping up here at Ball State? Since I am away from Indianapolis and can't see buildings like Simon going up, I've been watching the new Telecommunications Building. How fun, I can't wait for it to open.

http://www.bsu.edu/web/news/extra/newconstruction/

February 16th, 2006, 11:02 PM

any thoughts on the following article from indpls star:

Neighbors sue city over grocery store
By Andy Gammill

Residents of the Driftwood Hills neighborhood on the Far Northside have sued the City of Indianapolis over its decision to allow a Whole Foods grocery store in their neighborhood.

In its lawsuit, the Driftwood Hills Neighborhood Association argues that the city's Metropolitan Development Commission and the City County Council disregarded state law in allowing the store to go in.
"They ignored the law," said Todd DeGroff, an attorney who keeps an office in his house in Driftwood Hills. "They skipped right over the law."
Developer Paul Kite has proposed the specialty grocery store for the northwest corner of 86th Street and Keystone Avenue. City officials overrode the city's comprehensive plan in declaring the site appropriate for commercial development.

thehoss257

February 16th, 2006, 11:57 PM

re: Simon HQ, i think Ratio Architects did a wonderful job with the re-design; last time i drove be it I couldn't help but stare at it and study the different elevations. they window design & mullion placement gives it a non-suburban look. i don't know why an Atlanta/non-local firm was chosen in the first place.

I agree, Ratio did a much better job than the previous architect of the Simon Headquarters. Also, some of the limestone, stainless steel and glass skins of the building look very classy. It is amazing how much better the real limestone on this building looks compared to the faux stone on the Conrad building. I have a couple problems with the design and orientation of the building, however.

My first issue is that the building is set back five to ten feet from the historic build-to-line of Washington Street. The building already has an arcade and the Washington Street sidewalk is already ridiculously large. The result is that the building does not contribute to a continuous street wall on the south side of Washington. In fact the building is difficult to see when you are on Washington looking west. I don't mind a little setback variation from time to time, but it should be the exception, not the rule. I don't know, maybe this was forced by the location of the parking garage under the park.

Secondly, the building seems a bit schizophrenic to me. Why does it need so many different skins? Why does it have so many facets? Is Simon trying to fool us into thinking that there are actually three or four separate building here? I count in this one picture six totally unrelated façade treatments. I think two or three would have sufficed. This seems to be a hallmark of Ratio designed buildings.

http://static.flickr.com/33/100331527_ebc0e03b49_o.jpg

By the way, am I going to get the tar beat out of me by the copyright police for using images like this from Emporis? Is this considered a fair use of the image?

cwilson758

February 17th, 2006, 12:13 AM

I am all for a "street" presence, but the Simon Building is heaps better than the horrible National City Center. There is NO street presence for that building along Washington Street. Also, the design of the building gets better and better each day.

thehoss257

February 17th, 2006, 12:23 AM

moochie

February 17th, 2006, 02:04 AM

Secondly, the building seems a bit schizophrenic to me. Why does it need so many different skins? Why does it have so many facets? Is Simon trying to fool us into thinking that there are actually three or four separate building here? I count in this one picture six totally unrelated façade treatments. I think two or three would have sufficed. This seems to be a hallmark of Ratio designed buildings.

It reminds me of the many different facades of the State Museum. Perhaps that was a reason it was incorporated. I like it personally, it's interesting to look at while not being garish imho.

moochie

February 17th, 2006, 02:08 AM

By the way, am I going to get the tar beat out of me by the copyright police for using images like this from Emporis? Is this considered a fair use of the image?

I don't think Emporis would have any legal recourse against you seeing as you aren't profiting from the image in any way, but you may be violating SSC policies, and they may remove it and/or censure you. I doubt it though.

thehoss257

February 17th, 2006, 02:48 AM

I don't think Emporis would have any legal recourse against you seeing as you aren't profiting from the image in any way, but you may be violating SSC policies, and they may remove it and/or censure you. I doubt it though.

Thanks Moochie!

Wu-Gambino

February 17th, 2006, 04:18 AM

Alright, there seem to be a few people interested in this, maybe we can have a meet up sometime this summer.

On the Whole Foods issues, I have not seen what this development looks like, does anyone have a rendering? However, it brings up the issue of NIMBYs in Nora and the Far Northside, I don't understand why they are so anti-development. There is hardly anything in that area that is historical, it's mostly bland suburban designs.

Also, I agree with everyone on the Simon Building. This is so much better than the original design, and it gives you a street presence (National City Center doesn't do that, especially on Washington Street). Washington Street really has a good canyon affect going for it, definitely the best in the city. This pic is from this summer (courtesy of MCC):
http://www.pbase.com/mcc2000/image/52309141.jpg

Next time I'm Downtown, I'll try to get one of West Washington, it looks so much better now that the Conrad is almost finished and the Simon Building is underconstruction.

cjfjapan

February 17th, 2006, 04:42 AM

moochie

February 17th, 2006, 05:21 AM

Speaking of the Conrad, any idea why the material looks like cheap concrete? If it is supposed to be a 5-star hotel, why not limestone, or marble, or something with, IMHO, a little more class than what they chose? Is it a better material?
I didn't know it was cheap material. I thought it was real limestone. My reaction to it is that it's a pleasing beige, darker than in any of the renderings. I don't know though... It could be cheap concrete for all I know. They installed it in sheets like stone though.

Does it really look like cheap material in these construction photos?
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/pc/?id=163137&aid=19&sro=1&yr=2005&mt=12

thehoss257

February 17th, 2006, 06:53 AM

I'm wondering if we should form something an organization like the are proposing in the Chicago forum:
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=313979

I don't know of any groups in the city that are pro-urban (Historic Landmarks, maybe a few neighborhood groups) and seeing how disappointing some of the development (it's getting better, but it's not to it's fullest potential) has been over the past years and how the city still lacks good mass transit, I think it would be a plus for our city. I know we have more forumers from Indy, compared to a few years back (plus a few at SSP, not sure about the Star boards, don't get me started on those), and I'm sure there are plenty of other people in the city and metro that share our concerns and dreams for the city.

I agree!!! Starting an organization related to urban development in Indy is an excellent idea! I wanted to start a group like this last year but didn’t know enough interested people. I experimented with creating a website, registered the domain smartgrowthindy.com and started paying for a web hosting service. If any of you like the name, "Smart Growth Indianapolis", preliminary web design or the domain, I would be happy to get it up and running again. We could use some of it, all of it, or none of it.

Another thought is to form an Indianapolis or Indiana chapter of the Congress for the New Urbanism. I'm not sure if any of you are members, but a friend and I have talked about organizing it at some point. The biggest problem with this scenario is that everyone would need to be a member of CNU.

Anyway, I would love to help start and play a part in an organization. I also know a couple guys that might be interested in getting involved as well.

Screenshot 1
http://static.flickr.com/41/100669097_a9e72ff78a_o.jpg

Screenshot 2
http://static.flickr.com/28/100669095_ae09f2320b_o.jpg

Screenshot 3
http://static.flickr.com/34/100669096_fc1f7ebcd4_o.jpg

thehoss257

February 17th, 2006, 07:12 AM

I know the material on the Simon Building, is limestone from Southern Indiana. I'm not sure about the material on the Conrad Building. I'm guessing some type of concrete that is supposed to look like limestone. I've seen other simulated limestone products that look pretty good, but not this one. I wonder if the architects or developers are disappointed with the material. Overall, though, I think the Conrad tower will be a wonderful addition to downtown.

moochie

February 17th, 2006, 10:29 AM

cjfjapan

February 17th, 2006, 12:51 PM

It looks like a kind of new concrete to me, but I have no idea. It does not look like Indiana limestone, at least. Too beige. Just wondering...

It might look better if/when it is lit at night, but I dont care for the exterior so far... but I think the hotel itself will be a terrific addition to the city.

February 17th, 2006, 04:32 PM

re: the proposed 'smart growth' org.: the Ball State CAP Indy center is not in anyway doing things that you all are suggesting, correct?

cwilson758

February 18th, 2006, 01:30 AM

The Conrad (I Believe) is a type of Drive-it (however you spell it) that you just "snap" together. The Staff complained about this, but are you to do when the City is putting $$ behind a project?

moochie

February 19th, 2006, 12:15 AM

The Conrad (I Believe) is a type of Drive-it (however you spell it) that you just "snap" together. The Staff complained about this, but are you to do when the City is putting $$ behind a project?
From Kate Flock:

"The Conrad exterior is concrete, and the interior is absolutely magnificent, it is not cheap! Imported french ceramic tiles, carpets from Ireland, chandeliers from another exotic country, it just goes on and on! You will be very excited once we can all enjoy these unique and beautiful spaces! Well over 100 million dollars is going into this soon to be crowned five star hotel. The staff is top notch and very international!!

Hope those little tid bits help! I think it will blow everyone away with it's quaint European ambiance...

Flock Real Estate Group
442 Massachusetts Ave.
Indianapolis, IN 46204

317.634.6676 office
317.637.4887 fax
888.500.1085 toll free"

So now we know. I don't think it looks bad though.

cjfjapan

February 19th, 2006, 05:04 AM

From Kate Flock:

"The Conrad exterior is concrete, and the interior is absolutely magnificent, it is not cheap! Imported french ceramic tiles, carpets from Ireland, chandeliers from another exotic country, it just goes on and on! You will be very excited once we can all enjoy these unique and beautiful spaces! Well over 100 million dollars is going into this soon to be crowned five star hotel. The staff is top notch and very international!!

So now we know. I don't think it looks bad though.

Thanks Moochie--I think the exterior look better once it is completed, occupied (lit at night). Indy needs a good place for people to meet and people watch--the Conrad looks like a great place to do that.

cwilson758

February 19th, 2006, 04:39 PM

I think that the Conrad is a "jewel" in downtown's crown. I mean, other than Chicago, I don't think any other midwestern city has a TRUE 5-star hotel. This shows how many people do visit our downtown. The momenteum just continues unabated.

I was at Circle Centre yesterday (went to H&M) and it was "butt to nut" up in there. Oh, and the vacant stores almost all had "coming soon signs." Two I had never heard of. Which, I think, is what has to locate there...unique to the metro stores for "townies" to go there through the week.

cjfjapan

February 19th, 2006, 04:51 PM

I was at Circle Centre yesterday (went to H&M) and it was "butt to nut" up in there. Oh, and the vacant stores almost all had "coming soon signs." Two I had never heard of. Which, I think, is what has to locate there...unique to the metro stores for "townies" to go there through the week.

Off topic, but what do you think of H&M? I dont know what I was expecting...it struck me as a Eur-old Navy.

cwilson758

February 19th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Before H&M was here...and even Chicago, my only experiences were when I went to Europe. I would ALWAYS come home and describe it as "euro old navy or gap." So, I think you are spot-on. It is throw-away fashion. Not the highest quality, but definitely fashion-forward. I went to the "Pink Party" at Talbott Street last night and needed something pink. So, I figured I could get something nice, inexpensive, and if I never wore it again, oh well, I only paid $9. H&M is great for summer clothes and basics too.

I think it is great that Indiana has TWO H&M stores considering we are very fashion conservative.

jacerw99

February 19th, 2006, 06:28 PM

^ Hopefully the influx of better shopping to Indy (in the last two years or so) will help to change our fashion-backward attitude, at least in this city if not in the rest of the state.

February 19th, 2006, 08:16 PM

February 19th, 2006, 08:18 PM

moochie

February 19th, 2006, 10:43 PM

do any of the mall's have fashion shows? i think that is a way to advance fashion, in general.

pls tell me you are not comparing Indy's fashion scene to NY or LA. People I know keep up with the trends, etc. (overall, i think this is a trivial issue since clothes are just clothes --but just my 2 cents).

Question:
for those of you that can afford a condo in One Market Square and are not choosing to buy, what are your reasons (just curious on how people feel about actually living in a high-rise)?
I've always wanted to live in a tower, but I've always appreciated having room for the dog to run more. I have the best of both worlds where I live now, ie; downtown with a large yard, and I'm not budging an inch.

I don't have much of a use for a second home, but if that changes, I'll almost certainly buy into a condo downtown.. Probably 110 E. Washington or somewhere else where I know the owner/developer/neighbors and can get a good deal. I'd be very leery of buying into a tower that hasn't been built... I think a lot of people feel the same... Why buy a unit that may or may not ever exist somtime in the future when you can close on an existing unit in a couple days?

Perhaps when the first tower actually goes up, the second tower will sell faster.

February 19th, 2006, 11:13 PM

February 19th, 2006, 11:16 PM

i agree with your last comment; i think more interest will build once ground breaking begins and some people who already live downtown might sell their condo, etc. and buy at the high-rise - some people like the newest thing.

i can't afford it right now but in general i wonder if it might be like living in a high-priced dorm room (one bedroom layout); plus entering my house from a hallway.

jacerw99

February 20th, 2006, 12:47 AM

I could afford one of the smaller units, but I am most likely moving in the next year or two... that's my primary reason for not buying. However, if I stayed here, I probably wouldn't buy a unit there. It would be great to live in a high-rise, but I think I would rather live in a condo in a converted industrial building or renovated historical property. Although the modern features of the tower would be nice, I prefer the odd floor plans and architectural/design possibilities of converted building. I really hope the tower sells well, though. I think it's great--if it were more my cup of tea I would buy there in a heartbeat.

bananaboi22

February 20th, 2006, 02:01 AM

other cities have the Ritz Carlton, W Hotel, etc. - you don't think those are 5-star?

Are they in the MIDWEST?

KM1410

February 20th, 2006, 03:11 AM

I was at Circle Centre yesterday (went to H&M) and it was "butt to nut" up in there. Oh, and the vacant stores almost all had "coming soon signs." Two I had never heard of. Which, I think, is what has to locate there...unique to the metro stores for "townies" to go there through the week.

Do you remember the names of any of the new stores?

KM1410

February 20th, 2006, 03:32 AM

other cities have the Ritz Carlton, W Hotel, etc. - you don't think those are 5-star?

The Conrad won't necessarily be rated a 5 star hotel. But if it is rated 5 stars by Mobil, it will be the only 5 star hotel in the midwest outside of Chicago. The only W hotels in the midwest are in Chicago and they arent 5 star. There are Ritz Carltons in Cleveland, Detroit & St Louis and they also are not 5 star.

moochie

February 20th, 2006, 06:33 AM

other cities have the Ritz Carlton, W Hotel, etc. - you don't think those are 5-star?
There are 32 5 star hotels in the USA. None are in the midwest outside of Chicago... yet. Here's the official list:
http://honeymoons.about.com/od/mobilawardwinners/a/Mobil5Star2006.htm

It generally doesn't change much from year to year.

These are the official Mobil 5 stars in Chicago:
Four Seasons Hotel Chicago
The Peninsula Chicago
The Ritz-Carlton, A Four Seasons Hotel, Chicago

cjfjapan

February 20th, 2006, 10:53 AM

A story about how GM's retirement plans support the economy of Anderson...barely.

The townsfolk seem resigned to the city's demise. Is there any hope for a city still so dependent on a single company?

February 20, 2006
Company Town Relies on G.M. Long After Plants Have Closed
By JEREMY W. PETERS and MICHELINE MAYNARD

ANDERSON, Ind., Feb. 16 — General Motors once had so many plants here that it had to stagger their schedules so that the streets would not be clogged with traffic when the workday ended. At the city's peak, 35 years ago, one of every three people in Anderson worked for G.M.

Now there is not a single G.M. plant left, and just two parts plants that G.M. once owned still survive. Anderson, about 50 miles northeast of Indianapolis, had 70,000 people in 1970 and now has fewer than 58,000.

But in many ways, Anderson is still just as dependent on G.M. as it once was. Only now, rather than being dependent on General Motors, the corporation, it is dependent on General Motors, the welfare state.

The company's generous medical plans, prescription drug coverage, dental care and pension checks are a lifeline for the 10,000 G.M. retirees and an untold number of surviving spouses and other family members who still live in the Anderson area.

They in turn help to prop up the doctor's offices, hospitals, buffet restaurants and shopping centers that might otherwise vanish along with the G.M. plants around the city that are fast becoming rubble. Anderson's G.M. retirees outnumber its remaining auto manufacturing workers by nearly four to one.

"When we all die off, this city will die," Jesse Lollar, 83, said last week, as he finished an early dinner of lima beans and macaroni and cheese at the MCL Cafeteria in the Mounds Mall.

The rest of the story can be accessed here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/20/business/20auto.html?hp&ex=1140498000&en=395000da601cfa8d&ei=5094&partner=homepage) , though you may need to register to view it.

moochie

February 20th, 2006, 10:58 AM

cjfjapan

February 20th, 2006, 01:37 PM

Good call, Moochie. It is depressing--your typical "rust belt town dies" story from the coastal press.

CorrND

February 20th, 2006, 04:29 PM

Do you remember the names of any of the new stores?

I was just there yesterday afternoon and I recall seeing two stores coming soon and one empty store (although I didn't go through the WHOLE mall). One was a watch store (can't remember the exact name) and I think the other was Eddie Bauer. I thought there was already an Eddie Bauer in Circle centre, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly or maybe they're just moving into a larger/smaller space.

littleolme

February 20th, 2006, 07:39 PM

that anderson article was sad but i thought this graphic was the coolest part of the article.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/02/20/business/20hits_lg.gif

i had no idea that indianapolis still had so many auto manufacturing jobs. i would have figured that after the purge of the eighties that there werent more than five or six thousand auto plant jobs in indy by 1995, but i guess they had nearly twenty thousand.

cjfjapan

February 21st, 2006, 02:42 AM

OOoo...I missed the graphic. Indy and Anderson have lost a lot, but my sweet Lord, Flint!?! Wasn't Roger and Me made in the early 1990s, before the area lost 23,000 automotive jobs? Unbelieveable. I know Anderson is having hard times, but that cannot compare to Flint.

NaptownBoy

February 21st, 2006, 04:01 PM

Any new developments for Circle Centre? I was there on Saturday and it was phat inside the mall, I have never seen that many people at the mall at once.

moochie

February 21st, 2006, 08:43 PM

Any new developments for Circle Centre? I was there on Saturday and it was phat inside the mall, I have never seen that many people at the mall at once.
The state high school wrestling championships were this past Fri-Sun.. I think that explains the high traffic.. Representatives from practically every little high school in the state downtown.

February 21st, 2006, 10:38 PM

here is a link to see their current bldg: http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=293596 . i don't know what they plan to do with the existing bldg but perfect opp. for some 15+ story bldg. does anyone know if there are restrictions on that site since it's near all that memorial/historic stuff?
re: site locations, what about all the parking lots???

article on the IBJ (i am glad to see the 'focus on design' section at the bottom, i put it in bold text)

VOL. 26 NO. 51, FEB. 20-26, 2006

New FBI facility: tough case to crack
Government struggling to find site to build field office for bureau

By Tammy Lieber
IBJ Reporter

The highly-sought-after job of developing a new building for the FBI's Indianapolis field office is still in play, but it's hampered by the federal government's inability to find a site for the building.

A bevy of local and national developers are expected to throw their hats in the ring to develop the building, which the Government Services Agency says needs to be 110,000 square feet.

For the winner, it would be a high-profile project and one of the more significant build-to-suit office deals in recent years.

But the dynamics of real estate in Indianapolis appear to be working against the federal government's attempts to find a site.

The GSA, which handles new building projects for most federal agencies, typically issues separate requests for proposals on a building site and the building.

In this case, the agency last fall started looking for a 6.37- to eight-acre site within Marion County. At the same time, it issued a separate request for interest from developers to build the office building.

Indianapolis' wealth of nationally known developers--such as Browning Investments Inc., Duke Realty Corp. and Lauth Property Group--may be making the site search more difficult. A source familiar with the search said those developers are probably pitching land they already own or control with the expectation they'd be chosen to develop the building.

If the GSA can't find a site separately, it's possible the agency will accept joint proposals for both the land and the building, said GSA spokesman David Wilkinson. That, however, would "complicate the process," he said, by cutting out some would-be developers that might not have a site lined up.

GSA set a Feb. 28 deadline for proposals from developers, but it might be extended. The proposals will be used for a "preliminary screening to determine qualified developers," Wilkinson said. Those who pass muster would be considered further.

Most of Indianapolis' heavy hitters in real estate attended an informational meeting in late January, said one person at the meeting. The usual suspects--Browning, Duke and Lauth--are tight-lipped on their prospects of chasing the job, however. Lauth Executive Vice President Michael Curless said the company does plan to respond to the GSA's latest request, "as I assume many other local and national firms are."

Choosing a site

Another factor limiting progress on the building is said to be the FBI's preference to stay downtown, where eight-acre chunks of land are hard to come by.

The FBI's Indianapolis field office is in the Minton-Capehart Federal Building at 575 N. Pennsylvania St. In FBI fashion, an agency spokeswoman declined to say how many of the agency's employees work there or what sort of work they do, except that they are special agents and professional staff.

The Stadium Drive area just northwest of IUPUI could work if enough land can be assembled from private owners, several real estate sources said. However, that area has been earmarked by the city for BioCrossroads life sciences development. The FBI's building would house only offices, not researchers, so it wouldn't fall within the city's vision for the area.

Regardless, a high-profile project like the FBI building could give the Stadium Drive area a needed boost. Admittedly a long-term goal, the conversion of the corridor from industrial buildings to a center of cutting-edge technology has mostly failed to draw private investors. Indiana University has been quietly amassing land along the corridor for future expansion of IUPUI, and the school's Biotechnology Research and Training Center anchors one end of the corridor at 16th Street.

The city of Indianapolis is said to be trying to woo the FBI to one of several sites in targeted redevelopment areas, such as East Washington Street, but none of those areas are downtown.

Indianapolis Economic Development Director Gordon Hendry declined to comment on the city's efforts to offer a site to the FBI, saying only, "We're following it very closely."

Focus on design

Although the GSA doesn't appear to be any closer to picking a site or developer than it was last fall, architecture buffs can expect a new building with a more pleasing design than the Minton-Capehart Federal Building, which was completed in 1976.

That's because just over a decade ago, GSA developed a Design Excellence Program for all its new facilities, from skyscraping courthouses to border patrol stations.

The program arose from a recognition that in the latter half of the 20th century, federal buildings "were indistinguishable from commercial structures, lacked inspiration and were not embraced by the public," according to the GSA Web site.

In other words, they're ugly.

While new federal buildings aren't likely to include the opulent mosaics and stained glass of the Birch Bayh Federal Courthouse, built on Ohio Street as a post office in 1912, GSA has focused increasingly on quality architecture, engineering and construction in its new buildings.

The agency even hands out awards every two years for the best of its new buildings as judged by a private-sector panel of architects, engineers and designers. Architects for new buildings include some of the best-known firms in the country.

In 2004, the U.S. Courthouse in Hammond garnered one of 16 GSA design awards given to more than 140 applicants. Designed by New York-based Pei Cobb Freed & Partners Architects LLP and Indianapolis-based Browning Day Mullins Dierdorf, the 275,000-square-foot limestone-clad courthouse won praise for everything from landscaping to a three-story glass-walled atrium.

GSA's design program makes it more attractive for leading architecture firms to participate in government projects, said Richard Fitzgerald, an associate partner at BDMD who worked on the Hammond project for 10 years before its 2002 opening.

"It's a commitment to design and build monumental buildings with the same enthusiasm we used to have in the 1930s, '40s and '50s," he said. "They're buildings that will endure 100 years."

moochie

February 22nd, 2006, 05:22 AM

:nono: Why do they need an 8 acre site to build a 110,000 sq/foot building? 110,000 sq. foot is 2.53 acres if they build a single story....wtf? Give them a site on East Washington to perhaps relieve some blight, but keep this out of downtown unless they want to build dense and tall!!

GT, Minton Capehart is the Federal Building, not the FBI building. It also houses the IRS, the GSA, Social Security and other fed agencies. The FBI is currently there, but apparently they need more space. I've been in that building and it's crowded... I'm sure the other agencies will be happy to expand into the vacant space.

Perhaps an argument could be made to build a new Fed office tower, but I have issues with tearing down an existing building simply because many find it unattractive... Particularly considering that the Minton Capehart is an "Energy Star Labeled Building". (an extremely energy efficient building) The Feds can build another tower on a nearby parking lot.. there are plenty of those.

I've warmed up to the Minton Capehart in recent years. Yes, it's ugly, but it's definitely unique. I think I'd miss it if it were torn down.

moochie

February 22nd, 2006, 08:30 AM

I walked the dog down East Washington street tonight, and counted 6 "for sale" signs on large industrial type properties on Washington between Park street and Oriental. This is in addition to the huge 3 acre site at Washington and Highland the is going throught the finishing stages of being cleared for some mysterious new construction... Among the properties for sale are a few that are currently functioning businesses... successful ones at that.

I know that the Market street interchange is set to be moved to Washington st. beginning September, and I assume that all this activity is a result of that... But I'm impressed by the sheer volume of activity in the area... Anyone have any ideas what could cause all this to happen so quickly, and how I can get in on the inside info?

CorrND

February 22nd, 2006, 04:34 PM

littleolme

February 22nd, 2006, 08:19 PM

The reason that the fbi office has to leave the minton-capehart building, and the reason they need 8 acres for a little 110,000 sq ft building, and the reason they cant use the old city hall that the library is currently using, is because of new anti-terrorism guidelines for fbi buildings. they need a secure location with a certain distance between the building and the street so terrorists cant kill an entire regions fbi force with a well placed u-haul van.

February 22nd, 2006, 10:11 PM

after looking at that 'Indy metro' thread, i thought of a question (if we've discussed it already forgive me but I forgot): to expand the core of dwntn, what REASONABLE (i.e., that has a 85%+ chance of materializing in the 5-year future) projects on what corridors--proposed or not-- will make this happen? please do not say build a whole bunch of skyscrapers.

cwilson758

February 22nd, 2006, 11:19 PM

February 22nd, 2006, 11:58 PM

what height constitutes a midrise?

moochie

February 23rd, 2006, 01:27 AM

GT-

To answer your question,it would be to build and fill-in the vacant lots, which is occuring at a dizzying pace. One thing I think is great,even though all of our condos aren't coming in 500' towers, is that the City is seeing a real trend in midrise construction. Once the last few lots get developed, then more high-rises will go in.
I'd had the same thought. While I abhor watching wasteful projects like firehouse square go up inside and in the vicinity of the mile square, I've got to think that they aren't going to hurt the demand for downtown housing any... and when downtown runs out of room for 3 story townhomes, they'll have to start building very high. It's kind of funny to think that all this low rise development will speed up a lot more future high rise development... but I've got to believe it's true.

To follow that logic a step further, perhaps 8 well landscaped acres downtown (that's about 2 square blocks right?) really could speed up more appropriate development in the area. Particularly if it's done well.. I would love to see something like the Scottish Parliament in the area of the Statehouse... though I'm sure that's too much to ask. I'd prefer a few 70 story Calavetra designed skyscrapers... But I'll take what I can get..

Yes, I love the Scottish Parliament complex. It doesn't make me a bad person...

February 23rd, 2006, 05:05 AM

February 23rd, 2006, 05:07 AM

moochie, you don't mean Santiago Calatrava do you? i tried a search under calavetra and nothing came up...

moochie

February 23rd, 2006, 05:25 AM

you say it as if something were stopping developers from bldg mid-rises, please explain.

do you all think the FBI bldg should go ahead and locate in the life sciences area even though it doesn't meet the criteria?

don't you all think Fall Creek Place needs to be landscaped?

by the way, Flock Realty updated their website...
Nothing is standing in the way of mid and high rises... except poor and shortsighted planning by developers unwilling to take risks. There still exists the mentality that people won't want to buy in a tower so the developers are building low.. Building low also ensures a quicker turnover as it doesn't take as long to sell and build. Developers are just trying to make a quick buck after all... They aren't concerned with good urban planning unless it affects their immediate bottom line.

But as lots are filled in and the available supply of land becomes low, demand will stay the same, forcing developers to finally build high.

Interesting that Flock has sort of "announced" groundbreaking, essentially guaranteeing it... Sales must be good for them to be that confident.

I did mean Calatrava. I love the Fordham Spire.

moochie

February 23rd, 2006, 12:26 PM

The Simon tower spire has been installed!

February 23rd, 2006, 03:37 PM

i did read somewhere that since the annoncement of One Market, other developers were trying to get their projects completed and on the market ahead of the tower, but more 6+ story bldgs could have been built, imo. however, i would rather have the multiple infill low-rise stuff than 3 towers.

CorrND

February 23rd, 2006, 04:55 PM

The Simon tower spire has been installed!

And the Conrad name has been placed on the top of that building. We're getting close on these projects!

cwilson758

February 23rd, 2006, 07:02 PM

And the Conrad name has been placed on the top of that building. We're getting close on these projects!

I was downtown yesterday and noticed that too. There are also lamps in some of the windows!

Did anyone catch this week's IBJ? There are some good articles in there about local developments and community neighborhood projects.

KM1410

February 23rd, 2006, 07:45 PM

I was downtown yesterday and noticed that too. There are also lamps in some of the windows!

Did anyone catch this week's IBJ? There are some good articles in there about local developments and community neighborhood projects.

yeah, there were quite a few good articles in there this week. i'll try to get some of them posted tonight.

February 23rd, 2006, 08:03 PM

NaptownBoy

February 24th, 2006, 12:04 AM

KM1410, please do that!!!!!!

question of the day:
as intown/downtown areas in cities of all sizes across the country are experiencing a resurgence, do you think this is part of a cycle - will history repeat itself? In other words, will people vacate the city for the suburbs in 20 years?

IMO, I think as long as there is a balance in housing product types and green space, it may not.
No, I dont think we'll see a cycle of back and forth, I think certain push and pull factors will draw people to wherever they believe is the best place to live. The cities themselves will conform to whatever is presented to them which is why we have to make progress now. As for the suburbs I dont think America will ever lose its fascination with culs-de-sac. so basically I believe things will remain the same-cities will become a lot more desireable, though-but when the next major demographic shift comes along, I dont know where the hell we'll end up.

moochie

February 24th, 2006, 07:56 AM

No, I dont think we'll see a cycle of back and forth, I think certain push and pull factors will draw people to wherever they believe is the best place to live. The cities themselves will conform to whatever is presented to them which is why we have to make progress now. As for the suburbs I dont think America will ever lose its fascination with culs-de-sac. so basically I believe things will remain the same-cities will become a lot more desireable, though-but when the next major demographic shift comes along, I dont know where the hell we'll end up.
If oil prices go to $100+ a barrel... a real possibility in coming years... you better believe we'll see an urban resurgance nationwide. I think energy issues will trigger future population shifts.

moochie

February 24th, 2006, 07:59 AM

cjfjapan

February 24th, 2006, 04:57 PM

If oil prices go to $100+ a barrel... a real possibility in coming years... you better believe we'll see an urban resurgance nationwide. I think energy issues will trigger future population shifts.

Agreed--i think the smart money is already getting into the best spots. Walking distance to work/entertainment shopping, etc. The people who are buying now will be sitting pretty if we dont have an energy revolution soon.

moochie

February 24th, 2006, 08:41 PM

Agreed--i think the smart money is already getting into the best spots. Walking distance to work/entertainment shopping, etc. The people who are buying now will be sitting pretty if we dont have an energy revolution soon.
Even if we do have an "energy revolution" soon, will still be a several decades long adjustment period where fuel prices will be much higher than they are now regardless how things turn out. What we're doing now simply isn't sustainable, and all those idiots who bought a cookie cutter vinyl mansion in a former cornfield 50 miles from work are going to pay big time... I really do see a nightmare scenario in coming years.

colts0315

February 25th, 2006, 03:19 PM

NaptownBoy

February 25th, 2006, 08:11 PM

Yeah, the laziness of suburbanites will catch up to them and they will have no choice to move back to the cities.

moochie

February 25th, 2006, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure about a nightmare. Seriously, with the gas prices going up, I've been telling people I think this is a great trend, as crazy as that sounds. This is because i I HATE sprawl and think this will push people to start building much higher density and turn more to alternative transportation. If i could not own a car and live within walking distance of retail and entertainment, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I can't understand why people, especially without young kids wouldn't. Indy's on its way to a great dense urban oasis. Just like cwilson said, we have to fill in the open spaces downtown with smart projects and you will see the building being built upwards. Just look at what is proposed now. I can't wait 5-10 years to see Indy's skyline.
Perhaps "nightmare" is an overly dramatic adjective.. But I was thinking more specifically about the people who've been predatorially suckered into loans they can barely afford, who will start seeing their property values drop below the balance of their mortgages, while seeing gas prices skyrocket... a recipe for bankruptcy... except bankruptcy protection doesn't protect as much as it used to...

It'll be pretty nightmarish for them..

Wu-Gambino

February 26th, 2006, 12:12 AM

Here's an construction update for the Conrad and the Simon Building (pics taken Feb 25, 2006). Also, sorry for the poor lighting in the Simon Bldg pics, there wasn't much I could do about it.

Conrad
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513000.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512989.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512993.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512996.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512984.jpg

On Illinois
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512998.jpg

How it fits in with the rest of Washington Street
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56512986.jpg

Sorry about the lighting
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513003.jpg

Simon
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513182.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513183.jpg

spire
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513184.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513185.jpg

I also went to the southside today, around Garfield Park. Does anyone know about this development, I forgot to take a pic of the sign. This is probably the worst infill I've seen in Indianapolis, it's a joke.
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513186.jpg

It's near some railroad elevated railroad track, which have some decent graffiti walls:
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513164.jpg

skyline view from the tracks:
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513168.jpg

On the left is the walls, on the right is the god-awful development
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513170.jpg

rehab of a house in Garfield Park
http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513177.jpg

I'll be creating a photo thread soon, I have a ton of neighborhood shots I need to post.

moochie

February 26th, 2006, 03:32 AM

This is the rear of a group of townhomes with a common strip af grass that borders a railroad track right? Please tell me it's so... This has to be a rear view. This has me very confused.

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513186.jpg

Also, I have to admit that I'm disappointed in the Simon tower spire. In the renders it's a slender and tasteful exclamation point. What I see here is a thick and clumsy tack on. It isn't finished, so perhaps it'll look better when it's done.

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513184.jpg

cwilson758

February 26th, 2006, 04:04 AM

I wish that the Conrad was at least 100' taller. It would really make a difference for that part of the skyline.

araman0

February 26th, 2006, 04:24 AM

unvrsty07

February 26th, 2006, 05:08 AM

Great pics Naptown. And, yes i agree with you cwilson i wish both towers were 100' or so taller! Oh well, these proposed towers/tower are going to be in the 400+ range right? Hopefully they are located to make an impact. But, look at it this way, there is a tower in those two locations instead of two empty lots!

moochie

February 26th, 2006, 09:01 AM

I'll be creating a photo thread soon, I have a ton of neighborhood shots I need to post.

Got any of the Holy Cross/Highland Park area? It'd be interesting to document the reclamation efforts.

cwilson758

February 26th, 2006, 05:44 PM

^^ Does anyone have a skyline picture that shows if/how these 2 new towers affect the skyline view at all? Everytime I was in Indy I would always forget to look for the Conrad from afar.

I really like the 2 new towers now that they are nearing completion. They really help to provide some visual urbanity to their proximities, especially the Conrad.

Unfortunately, Indy's skyline has a "base" of about 250', so inorder to get noticed, you are going to have to go over 300' feet, which neither of these towers do. So, there really is no effect on the skyline, other than adding to its bulk (which is not a bad thing). We all want flashy 500' + towers, but adding to the fabric is good too.

chindy

February 27th, 2006, 06:26 AM

I looked in the Infrastructure and Mobility section and couldn't find anything about the Midfield terminal. Has someone started a thread there for this or not? If so link please

KM1410

February 27th, 2006, 07:05 AM

I looked in the Infrastructure and Mobility section and couldn't find anything about the Midfield terminal. Has someone started a thread there for this or not? If so link please

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=293511

chindy

February 27th, 2006, 06:52 PM

thanks

CorrND

February 27th, 2006, 09:02 PM

2 mixed use residential towers. connected on the weird intersection of Washington, Pennsylvania and Virginia street. Skywalks will span Virginia street. This has been announced, but has been hush hush for some reason. I even know someone involved, who won't tell me a thing. Word is that there will be at least two towers, one about 25 stories tall, one more like 17 stories. 350 foot tall at the tallest. This project will involve tearing down the Zipper building and parts of Jefferson Plaza and possibly the JA building. This project is probable, but no one seems to know what's going on. Some demo and renovation has begun at part of the Jefferson Plaza, but not much.

Moochie, just noticed you posted this on the 'Indy metro layout' thread and thought I'd bring it over here since I don't think it's been mentioned. Do you know approximate locations for the buildings or is everything very premature? Anybody else have information about this tower project?

CorrND

February 27th, 2006, 09:17 PM

Probably should have looked back a little further than I did -- just noticed that everybody was talking about this development back in October (and possibly even further back). Just in case there are other new people on this thread, here's some details from KM1410:

"BUT, that isn't all. The block where Virginia Avenue is and where the Majestic, Zipper Building and Jefferson Plaza are located has some VERY BIG PLANS coming forward. They are still working out the kinks, but expect the wrecking ball to be taking the zipper building and Jeffereson Plaza down. A developer is planning on building a 23-story mixed-use tower on the south side of Washington Street / east side of Virginia Ave and then on the east side of Penn / southside of Virginia a 17-story residential tower. They will be connected via a skywalk with the first 5 floors of the 23-story building devoted to parking. The 23-story tower has a working height right now of 350', which makes it as tall as CCB and One Market Square! I was told that this is about 2 months away from hitting the press."

This is very exciting, but does anybody know why almost 4 months have now passed without any official news?

KM1410

February 27th, 2006, 10:04 PM

This is very exciting, but does anybody know why almost 4 months have now passed without any official news?

Actually that was probably either Cwilson or Moochie that had that info. Not sure why we havent heard any news in regards to that project yet. Hopefully it hasnt been shelved.

CorrND

February 27th, 2006, 10:09 PM

I walked the dog downtown tonight to look at the Simon tower and the Conrad. the Conrad sign is lighted on the west side... and it doesn't look garish like I'd feared. Very good to see it.

I was on the circle at 9pm, and witnessed the cops tow at least 30 cars... does this happen every night? I wouldn't be surprised. How hard is it for people to notice these signs? idiots... I have very little sympathy for them.

Proposal would extend parking hours on Circle
Proposal would allow vehicles to remain until 11 p.m.

By Tim Evans
tim.evans@indystar.com
Parking around Monument Circle at night is about to become less of a monumental headache.

After years of towing vehicles left any later than 9 p.m., extended parking hours would be available around the Circle and two "spoke" streets under a proposal expected to be presented to the City-County Council next week.

The plan, unanimously approved Thursday by the Public Works Committee, would allow parking around the Circle and adjacent section of Market and Meridian streets until 11 p.m.

Parking in those Downtown areas is currently prohibited between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. -- in part to discourage cruising around the city's most noted landmark.

"This would make our Downtown more user-friendly and accessible to guests and residents who want to visit our Downtown establishments," said Councilman Patrice Abduallah, a Democrat who is sponsoring Proposal No. 94.
Abduallah, whose district includes the area around the Circle, said the change should be good for the growing number of Downtown entertainment venues, dining establishments and other businesses that stay open late.

"The Downtown is really going, and I believe we are at a point where we can make some changes for the better," he said.

Councilman Lonnell Conley, chairman of the Public Works Committee and a fellow Democrat, said he did not expect the extended hours to lead to increased loitering or other nuisances -- problems that initially prompted the parking restrictions.

"I think 9 o'clock was too early to start towing with the way we are booming and all the visitors we have," Conley said.

If problems do crop up, Abduallah said, "we can always go back to the way it was."

More likely, he said, parking hours will be further extended, possibly to 1 a.m.

"This is a first step to opening up the city and if we get a good report card after a couple of months, we can look at the situation again and talk about allowing parking even later," Abdullah said.

Bettye Dobkins, deputy chief of the Indianapolis Police Department's Downtown District, said she thinks the expanded hours are warranted and does not think the change will lead to problems.

"We'll still have kids cruising and kids parking, but we'll just have to monitor it," she said. "Some of the problems we had in the past were due to not having enough officers, but now we do."

Abby Horn, spokeswoman for Indianapolis Downtown Inc., said the extended parking hours would be a good for Downtown Indianapolis.

"We have so many events that end after 9 (p.m.) and businesses that stay open later and this would make parking much more convenient," Horn said.

Wu-Gambino

February 27th, 2006, 10:17 PM

Got any of the Holy Cross/Highland Park area? It'd be interesting to document the reclamation efforts.
Nah, the pics I have are from the following areas:

Downtown
Garfield Park
Irvington
Woodruff Place
Old Northside
St. Joseph's
Ransom Place
Broad Ripple
Central Canal

I also have some skyline shots from the Clarian rail, all these shots are from October to February

cwilson758

February 28th, 2006, 01:13 AM

Horray about the parking. I am downtown ALL the time and it really is stupid that they start to tow at 9pm. When this was enacted, downtown was a ghost town. If I want to visit someone who lives around the circel, it is a pain.

I was just complaining about this on Friday night.

Yes, the two towers at Penn and Virginia are still going through the hoops. I don't know why this project, or the Penn Tower haven't hit the news with a bang??

moochie

February 28th, 2006, 03:43 AM

Moochie, just noticed you posted this on the 'Indy metro layout' thread and thought I'd bring it over here since I don't think it's been mentioned. Do you know approximate locations for the buildings or is everything very premature? Anybody else have information about this tower project?
The only news I've heard in the past couple weeks is that one of the tenants of Jefferson Plaza is suing the developer for breaking a rental agreement. I think these types of things are fairly typical though.

unvrsty07

February 28th, 2006, 03:53 AM

http://www.pbase.com/rclick/image/56513003.jpg Any body else think that the windows just being at the top of the Conrad looks umm, stupid?

February 28th, 2006, 04:06 AM

picky question: a lot of the proposed bldgs are to be located south of ohio st, which is great, but i think we also need something to break up that blah-trio skyline (One Indiana Sq, Chase, & One America). however, the only thing i can think of probably will never happen: build a bldg that straddles one of the north-south streets in between the trio - of course it would have an opening to allow vehicles to pass thru. I don't think there is space north of Ohio to build a skyscraper (within the trio skyline range), is there?

do you all think more high rises should be built around the two bldgs near I-65 (by wthr studios) or focus on the CBD area?

martindale project: great for the 'hood but can we get some brick up in there!?!?!

February 28th, 2006, 04:29 AM

moochie

February 28th, 2006, 05:00 AM

moochie, i think you stated you know the folks involved w/ the 2 condos on Virginia & Penn also - do they have an interest in good design, a desire to make a 'splash', or a big ego? I would assume if they want to link the bldgs with a sky bridge.
The Penn Tower developers and the Washington/Virginia/Penn/Jefferson Plaza developers are largely the same group of people. The Penn Tower is more of a personal project for a couple guys with some funding from elsewhere, and the other project is a much larger and complex mix of investors.

Honestly, I've already said everything I know about both projects.

moochie

February 28th, 2006, 06:10 AM

cwilson758

February 28th, 2006, 02:43 PM

I actually like "Quest Field." I don't know what I think about the name yet, possibly if it were a "coliseum" I might. I think that the new stadium needs a nickname.

As for our skyline, I am looking forward to One Market Sq. going up. This tower will be the same height as the CCb and will really lengthen the skyline.

CorrND

February 28th, 2006, 05:20 PM

Lucas Oil stadium? Lucas Oil Fieldhouse? Lucas Oil Coliseum? People don't seem to agree with me, but I like all three.

Okay, Lucas Oil is pretty Nascar-iffic, but when I've gone overseas and am inevitably asked where I'm from, most everyone immediately has heard of Indy, and associates it with racing... What's so bad about naming the stadium in an homage to our races?

Besides, it's not like we named it "Staples Center" or "Qwest Field" etc. etc. At least "Lucas Oil Stadium" is interesting sounding..

Personally, I think all the name combinations sound a little silly. I can deal with it, though. Drop "Oil" from the name and they all sound pretty cool -- too bad they can't possibly do that. Oh well, at least we can nickname it "The Luke". I like that.

indyfiend

February 28th, 2006, 07:11 PM

Here's a little article I noticed in Monday's Star. The website has some great pics and tid bits about Indy.

Virtual tour: You can see even more of the city

After 1million hits in eight months, a small Web site that offers virtual city tours is not about to rest on its success.

Thecuriouscity.com has added two new "tours" of Indianapolis -- spiced with still photos and eclectic music. One, titled "Places That Aren't Applebees," pays homage to Indianapolis' independent and ethnic eateries. Another, titled "Small Box Stores," shows that, yes, Indy has retail beyond strip centers.
The Web site was birthed by local advertising agency Young & Laramore to give its recruits an authentic look at the city.
Agency President Paul Knapp credits thecuriouscity.com with bringing at least one writer to Young & Laramore. And based on the site's number of unique visitors -- 2,820 -- Knapp suspects other companies are sending job prospects there, too.
-- J.K. Wall

NaptownBoy

March 1st, 2006, 12:19 AM

moochie

March 1st, 2006, 06:04 AM

Lucas Oil Stadium? I know Indianapolis pioneered the whole "put your name on a stadium" game, but Lucas Oil Stadium? That is a HORRIBLE name, I'm sorry, I just dont like it. I'd rather have them slap the RCA name on the new field or keep Indiana Stadium or something.
I don't think the RCA dome was the first. Besides, What's so bad about "Lucas Stadium"? Even if it's officially called the "Lucas Oil Stadium", The "oil" will be dropped by everyone anyway.

Remember, It could have been the "Kotex Fieldhouse" or the "Walmart Coliseum"... naming rights go to the highest bidder...

If I were the owner of Lucas Oil, I think I'd be pretty disappointed by the reaction to the name by the people of Indy so far. After all, These are local people and originally and Indiana company, from Corydon IN, who've made good and now want their business to go to the next level and compete internationally with off the shelf Auto Oil products... so they invest in a good long term advertising campaign with an Indiana team they've always supported... and what happens? Hoosiers are appalled. Hoosiers are freaks if you ask me...

Now, the "RCA Dome".. that's always been a crappy name.

KM1410

March 1st, 2006, 06:30 AM

Colts to earn $122M from Lucas Oil deal
Payout for 20-year deal is among the top 5 in the NFL

The Indianapolis Colts landed one of the most lucrative naming rights deals in the National Football League by securing a 20-year, $122 million deal with Lucas Oil Products.

The California-based company, started by a southern Indiana truck driver, will start making regular payments that average $6.1 million a year in 2008, according to the 33-page agreement filed with the Marion County Capital Improvement Board and obtained by The Star under the state's public records law.

"It's a very good deal for both of us," said Tom Zupancic, the Colts' senior vice president of sales and marketing.

Lucas' logo will be on everything from each side of the stadium and the roof on the outside, to every cupholder inside.

It took only two meetings with Lucas Oil to make the deal, said Zupancic, whose marketing team started looking for a new sponsor for the stadium in the fall.

The new home for the Indianapolis Colts, who currently play in the RCA Dome, will be the "Lucas Oil Stadium," according to the team.

But before any signs go up, the Capital Improvement Board must approve the naming rights agreement, which will likely occur at the board's March 13 meeting, said board president Fred Glass. Lucas Oil will put a $2 million down payment on the deal once it's final, according to the agreement.

Colts will keep the money from this naming rights deal as they do from the current agreement with RCA. The team is kicking in $100 million toward the cost of the stadium, but the city is helping the Colts out by paying them $48 million for early termination of RCA Dome lease.

Construction on the new $500 million stadium with a retractable roof began last year and is expected to end in time for the 2008 football season's first kick-off.

The Colts' naming rights deal, which will be officially announced at a news conference today, ranks in the top five in the NFL -- and for any sports arena. Companies pay from $620,000 a year to $10 million to place their monikers on NFL stadiums.

"For Indianapolis, in a smaller market, to come up with such a deal is quite an achievement," said Dennis Howard, a University of Oregon sports marketing professor who tracks naming rights agreements.

As corporate America has struggled with buyouts, downsizing and bankruptcy, Howard said stadiums have had trouble convincing companies to fork over millions to name a sports arena. Lengthy deals, like the Colts' 20-year agreement, are even harder to come by, he said.

The Seattle Seahawks, for example, couldn't find a sponsor for their stadium by the time the venue opened. When they did find a sponsor two years later with Qwest Communications, their agreement amounted to $5 million a year for 15 years.

RCA was one of the early adventurers into the naming rights market, when they placed their name on the Hoosier Dome in 1994 for $10 million for 10 years. They renewed in 2004 at $1.3 million a year and were in talks with the Colts to re-up on the new stadium.

Though many teams use a private firm to complete their deals, Colts owner Jim Irsay tapped two of his vice presidents for the job. Zupancic and Jay Souers made presentations in the fall of 2005 to several local, national and international companies, according to the team.

In December, the Colts made a more specific pitch to a few companies. In January, the marketing duo got a verbal commitment from Lucas Oil, which already serves as a sponsor for the team.

Should Lucas Oil stop making payments, go out of business or change hands, there are escape clauses in the contract to protect the Colts, Zupancic said.

Under the company's agreement with the team, the name "Lucas Oil Stadium" will grace each side of the building and the roof, and will be visible to the millions of motorists who cross I-70 just south of Downtown.

The north entrance will be the official "Lucas Oil" entryway into the stadium. Outside that entrance will be an area where visitors can take pictures with a Lucas-inspired welcome symbol, according to the naming rights agreement. Inside that entrance, the Lucas Oil will transform the plaza with "tasteful" displays and exhibits, the agreement says.

The Lucas Oil stadium logo, which hasn't been designed yet, will be on every cup holder, employee uniform and giant video screen in the building.

The company will also likely get a suite, tickets and access to players and cheerleaders to help market their goods, although the specifics aren't spelled out in the agreement.

If the stadium has to change its name, Lucas Oil agrees to pay the costs of changing signs, the logo and the marketing materials.

Lucas Oil has its name on two other sporting venues, both motor speedways in Missouri and California.

"They're in the big leagues now," said Howard, the sports marketing professor. "And they're paying big league money for this chance."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060228/NEWS01/60228038

KM1410

March 1st, 2006, 06:39 AM

Retail space coming to Fall Creek Place
Restaurants, coffee shops, bookstores planned

Wayne Ashford sat in his Fall Creek Place coffee shop—Tea’s Me Café & Gifts—during a recent lunch hour waiting for customers to show up.

After six months in the neighborhood, he’s been “a little disappointed” at the foot traffic through his business at the corner of 22nd and Talbott streets.

While the master-planned community has won accolades for its urban design, it has failed to generate revenue for smallbusiness owners like Ashford.

That may change in a hurry. Three sizeable commercial projects are about to radically change the makeup of the nowpredominantly residential community.

Residents are thrilled.

“We’re very much in support of them,” said Jennifer McGlone, president of the Fall Creek Place Neighborhood Association’s board of directors. “[Residents] bought into the neighborhood expecting [retail] services to be around.”

Together, the projects could add as much as 34,000 square feet of commercial space to the area 20 blocks north of downtown.

“We have developed enough critical mass that we’re seeing a tipping point in that there’s enough buyer income now that [Fall Creek Place] can support commercial elements,” said Chris Palladino, director of neighborhood development and finance for Indianapolis-based Mansur Real Estate Services.

Palladino’s company has broken ground on the Douglass Pointe Lofts: a nine-unit condominium development at 25th and Delaware streets. Each of the units will include as much as 1,000 square feet of ground-floor office space.

While the condos probably won’t attract retailers interested in selling trinkets or candy bars, they’ll likely draw white-collar professionals who want a storefront downstairs, such as attorneys or graphic designers.

Palladino hopes to finish construction within seven months.

Three blocks east at the former Tim and Avi’s location, Larry Jones, owner of Teagen Investments III LLC, hopes to start digging the foundation of a four-story mixed-use development in June. He’d like to finish construction by next spring.

The finished building will have 13,200 square feet of retail space on the ground floor. He hopes a restaurant takes the first 3,200 square feet. The rest he’ll either lease out as one huge space or slice up to accommodate as many as eight new retailers.

Twenty-six condominiums will occupy the top three levels of the building and sell for $160,000 to $700,000. Jones plans to use the cash from condo sales to lower the rents on the retail space.

“The goal is to be able to subsidize those first-floor units and get base rents down to around $12 per square foot,” Jones said.

That’s a smoking deal, commercial real estate agents say.

“I’m surprised he can do it,” said Don Williams, a principal at the local office of St. Louis-based Colliers Turley Martin Tucker. “It’s very difficult to deliver rents in the $16 to $18 range.”

A little more than a half mile away at the corner of 22nd and Delaware, Mansur is working with the King Park Area Development Corp. to build 12,000 square feet of retail space. Mansur hopes to start construction as early as this spring and finish by fall. Potential tenants include a sandwich shop, restaurant and a pizzeria.

Palladino said rents would be a little higher than Jones is asking, but not much.

Brian Epstein, president of Indianapolis-based Urban Space Properties, said all the spaces could get snapped up quickly.

“It takes time for a neighborhood to stabilize,” he said. “[Fall Creek Place] is at the point now where retailers will start taking a look at it.”

If the projects are successful, other nearby retailers will take note.

Jay Berger is a partner in 22nd Street Realty, which owns the boarded-up building at 22nd Street and Central Avenue that housed a Safeway grocery store until November. If the new Fall Creek retail developments take off, he would consider razing the building to put up a similar mixed-use development.

The three new projects wouldn’t have come together without help from the city, which chipped in more than $350,000 to get the sites ready for construction.

“We had to do some testing and cleanup of the sites,” said Maury Plambeck, director of the city’s Department of Metropolitan Development. “It we aren’t willing to participate in that, it’s hard for some retail or commercial [entities] to come into the inner city.”

Ashford can’t wait for some new neighbors.

“The more business that comes in the better,” he said. “In the next year or two, [Fall Creek Place] is going to be a very booming area.”

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KM1410

March 1st, 2006, 06:45 AM

City set to ink Fall Creek Place deals

In the past few weeks, the city’s Department of Metropolitan Development has received the go-ahead to begin closing on properties near College Avenue for the fourth and final phase of Fall Creek Place.

About 110 parcels on Broadway Street and College and Sutherland avenues between 22nd Street and Fall Creek will be acquired for $3.16 million under two resolutions approved by the Metropolitan Development Commission Feb. 1 and Feb. 15.

Nearly half that land will be purchased from a single owner, the Foursquare Tabernacle Church, which had been accumulating land in the area for years. The city reached a settlement with the church to acquire nearly 60 parcels for $1.63 million. That deal is set to close in the coming weeks, said city spokesman Justin Ohlemiller.

The other half of the parcels will be acquired in stages from dozens of individual property owners. No further land acquisitions are planned.

Phase four of Fall Creek Place will include more than 90 new single-family homes, 34 town homes and 10 rehabs.

The city plans to begin infrastructure work along Broadway and College this spring, Ohlemiller said. As with the first three phases, money will be available for down-payment assistance.

Financing to purchase the properties came from a $6.5 million bond issued by the Indianapolis Bond Bank last year, Ohlemiller said. The bond will be repaid with proceeds from a tax increment financing district and from lot sales in the final phase.

The initial phases of Fall Creek Place were funded in part by a $4 million homeownership zone grant from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Last year, the city announced it would expand the successful redevelopment project using mostly city and private funds.

As with earlier phases, Indianapolis-based Mansur Real Estate Services will partner with the city, King Park Area Development Corp. and Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana on the development of phase four. However, lots will be sold to builders in groups in this phase. In previous phases, lots were sold to builders individually as contracts for homes on the lots were signed with home buyers.

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KM1410

March 1st, 2006, 06:48 AM

GOING UP: Condos on Broadway

• What: Broadway Lofts condominiums.
• Location: 10th and Broadway.
• Developer: Britton Buildings Design.
• Unit price: $159,900 and up.
• Broker: Gary Angstadt, F.C. Tucker Co.-Meridian North.
• Opening date: Sept. 15.
• Description: The condominiums are in the Chatham Arch neighborhood. There are one-bedroom units with 1.5 baths starting at $159,900 and other units offering up to three bedrooms and two baths. All units have hardwood floors, subterranean garages and access to a rooftop garden.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20060216&Kategori=BUSINESS&Lopenr=602160344&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
UP ON THE ROOFtop: One of the amenities that come with purchasing a one- to three-bedroom condominium is access to a garden on the roof.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006602160344

March 1st, 2006, 06:51 AM

Kotex Stadium...LOL!!!! good points moochie. i'm just happy they found someone - it's more about the $$$$ & closing the deal to me.

March 1st, 2006, 06:54 AM

what about a grocery store in the area (more important than a pizzeria, imo)???? cwilson (or somebody), is the Kroger deal still in progress near the historic area (not sure of the 'hood)?

KM1410

March 1st, 2006, 06:58 AM

Development plans percolating in five urban corridors
East 10th Street, Fountain Square lead FOCUS pack

DataSmith Technologies owner James Smith started looking almost two years ago for a building to house his business, his home and possibly a revenue-generating tenant.

What he ended up with was a dilapidated former bar on a struggling section of East 10th Street that had become a haven for vagrants.

Smith took a chance on the building at 2032 E. 10th St., most recently home to Mustang Sally’s tavern, largely because of the involvement of the East 10th Street Civic Association. That organization is leading efforts to revitalize the corridor through a program called Fostering Commercial Urban Strategies, supported by the city and the Indianapolis office of the Local Initiatives Support Corp.

Launched locally in 2004, the FOCUS program provides grants and technical support to organizers in five inner-city corridors who are hoping to bring viable small businesses back to their neighborhoods. In addition to East 10th Street, targeted corridors include Fountain Square, West Washington Street, 16th Street and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive. A sixth corridor is expected to be announced in the coming weeks.

East 10th Street is one of the first corridors to show tangible results—such as Smith’s building—from its FOCUS efforts. The building, renamed the Mayfair after the original bar that occupied it, has been gutted and is undergoing reconstruction. Smith hopes to move DataSmith in by the end of this year. A coffee shop, the Mayfair Coffee Co., is slated to open on the first floor by the end of 2007.

“There were a lot of reasons why a lot of businesses would not even think about getting this building,” Smith said.

First was the ownership. The Mayfair had been owned by a Canadian company that had taken little interest in the building. Smith, with the civic association’s help, eventually purchased it through a tax sale.

Then there was the fact that the building was recommended for demolition, not because of its condition so much as because it had become a haven for vagrants and unseemly activity. Even before Smith purchased the building, he persuaded the city to let the main part stand by rounding up volunteers to demolish an accessory structure vagrants used for access.

And finally, there was the smell. Not only had it become a home for vagrants, it had also been a bar for 80 years, and had all the rankness associated with stale beer, questionable sanitary practices and drunken people.

The smell is gone now, and the building is slowly returning to its original state, with two storefront spaces instead of one and an open upstairs that, pending rezoning to allow a mixed-use building, will become a 2,000-square-foot condominium for Smith and his family, who now live in Carmel.

The total project, including grants for façade improvements and technical assistance, will cost close to $175,000, Smith said. Most of that will come from Smith himself, who has moved DataSmith out of leased space on the east side and back into his home to allow more funds to go into the Mayfair renovation.

Nearby, the civic association is taking steps to spur more redevelopment like the Mayfair’s. Crews recently demolished the former Short Stop market at 10th and Gray streets, along with two neighboring doubles, to create a three-lot developable site across from the new IPS School 54 under construction. There’s no set plans for those lots, but Civic Association Director Tammi Hughes said the group is interested in attracting a mixed-use building incorporating retail and/or small businesses.

Fountain Square
Just southeast of downtown, the Fountain Square neighborhood is also taking on some new development because of the FOCUS initiative. Like East 10th Street, Fountain Square had been part of a national Main Street Program before being named a FOCUS corridor. The two programs share many of the same goals, so the two areas had a head start of sorts when the FOCUS corridors were announced in 2004.

Much of Fountain Square’s current FOCUS efforts involve raising money for a streetscape program that will make the neighborhood around the namesake fountain more inviting and pedestrian-friendly, said Paul Baumgarten, director of Fountain Square Main Street and coordinator of the neighborhood’s FOCUS efforts.

There are some building projects under way, however. Southeast Neighborhood Development Corp., which is sponsoring the FOCUS efforts in Fountain Square, has purchased a 1,950-square-foot former rooming house and is working with a local graphic designer who wants to put his offices in the building. A 650-square-foot detached garage may become home to an architectural salvage store.

Last year, several façade improvement projects benefited from FOCUS funds. One at Deano’s Vino rebuilt an exterior stairway resembling the original structure; other projects resulted in new windows, new exterior paint and new neon signs for a handful of Fountain Square businesses.

16th Street
At nearly two miles long, the 16th Street corridor between Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive and Dr. Andrew J. Brown Avenue is the longest of the FOCUS corridors.

Not surprisingly, work to date has concentrated on forming committees to focus on smaller chunks of the corridor and identify needs in those areas, said Amandula Henry, community development coordinator for Near North Development Corp.

One group is working on the area around 16th Street and Capitol Avenue, near Methodist Hospital; one is centering on 16th and Central Avenue, where Kroger Cos. owns a supermarket that it is considering expanding or rebuilding; one committee is studying transportation along the corridor; and another is focusing on 16th Street east of the Monon Trail.

The latter group has had the most tangible activity from the FOCUS initiative, Henry said. Although unaffiliated with the FOCUS program, the Martindale on the Monon residential project is spurring interest in East 16th Street as a commercial corridor because of the 150 new homes planned for the area.

The FOCUS program has resulted in façade improvements for existing businesses in that area and efforts to convert a warehouse at 16th Street and the Monon into artist studios.

“My main goal is to look at blighted areas to help neighbors and investors see the benefit of becoming a neighborhoodbased business,” Henry said. “The neighborhoods around here are really flourishing. We would love to have that retail growth so that residents can patronize businesses in the area.”

MLK
Obtaining vacant land is one of the biggest challenges facing the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive corridor, said Robert Hawthorne, commercial corridor coordinator for the United North West Area Development Association.

Hawthorne and others active in the corridor between Fall Creek and 38th Street have spent the last year or so getting buyin on FOCUS goals from those along the corridor.

“One of our biggest issues was to get people engaged, in particular the residents and even the businesses, to a certain extent,” he said.

In the last few months, Hawthorne said, he’s noticed the efforts have paid off.

“People are more amenable to selling or leasing or being a part of new develop- ment,” he said. “It’s taken a turn. We’re now met with the challenge of pulling funds together to acquire properties and to figure out how to hold properties to acquire to make sure they’re available for development.”

Hawthorne and other organizers would like to see faster progress, but projects such as a new post office and a new gas station at 29th Street and MLK have helped generate interest in the corridor, he said.

“Everything is looking positive right now,” Hawthorne said.

West Washington
When it was announced as a FOCUS corridor several months after the first four kicked off, West Washington Street between Belmont and Tibbs avenues was envisioned as a cultural mecca of businesses that would lure patrons from far beyond its near-west-side boundaries.

That’s still the goal, but organizers soon discovered the first task would be to bridge communication gaps among the diverse cultures of the surrounding neighborhoods, said Kerry Spaulding, Hispanic services manager and West Washington coordinator at Hawthorn Community Center.

In recent years, many of the buildings along West Washington Street have been bought or leased by Hispanic entrepreneurs, creating a Hispanic business district. However, neighborhoods surrounding the corridor are a diverse mixture of Hispanic, black and white residents. Organizers soon discovered some resentment and apprehension among the groups.

One of Spaulding’s main goals in her eight months on the job has been to foster communication and to organize events bringing together all the neighborhood’s cultures, such as a fall Hootenanny Fiesta. The group is also seeking sponsors for a film series that would alternate between subtitled Spanish- and English-language movies.

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