I was going through the Emporis.com database and I found a huge complex called 'Vertical City of the Americas' which was to be built by big Miami executives with the tower being at around 175 floors. What ever happened to this huge plan? Anyone got any information? Thanks.

Kevin :) , I believe I have the Same ole # 1 answer, The Freaking F.A.A. :bash: !!!, in other words, " Just a Little " Tall huge dream. :cheers:

I kinda figured. What year was this proposed because it looks awesome? 175 floors though, that's gigantic, that would've been amazing.

I really hope this isn't the fate of the EWT as well. I really hope those get built. What part of Biscayne Blvd are the EWT suppose to get built anyways?

I kinda figured. What year was this proposed because it looks awesome?
Kevin :wave: ,I believe it was the Summer - Fall of 2001 :dunno: , just after 9/11 :angel: , it was to be the tallest in the world. :cheers:

I really hope this isn't the fate of the EWT as well. I really hope those get built. What part of Biscayne Blvd are the EWT suppose to get built anyways?
Kevin :) ,Well it was right there in the front page of the herald, a Huge Pyramid looking building on all three city blocks of the MarinaBlue condo tower, The 900 Biscayne Condo tower, and the Ten Museum Park Condo tower, which the properties were later sold to these developers. :cheers:

Kevin :wave: ,I believe it was the Summer - Fall of 2001 :dunno: , just after 9/11 :angel: , it was to be the tallest in the world. :cheers:

Well since it was after/during 9/11 that explains it. The FAA would of definetly never allowed that so close to after 9/11 and plus I don't think the people would of wanted that at the time. But time's have changed and I think people would accept a taller tower like that. Definetly not after 9/11. Oh well, there goes that, it would've been an awesome tower and just imagine Miami's publicity on that, wow. That FAA :bash: !!.

Kevin :) ,Well it was right there in the front page of the herald, a Huge Pyramid looking building on all three city blocks of the MarinaBlue condo tower, The 900 Biscayne Condo tower, and the Ten Museum Park Condo tower, which the properties were later sold to these developers. :cheers:

So what do you mean by this? Are you saying the Empire World Towers won't get built because they're on already-sold land or are you referring to the Vertical City of the Americas on this?

So what do you mean by this? Are you saying the Empire World Towers won't get built because they're on already-sold land or are you referring to the Vertical City of the Americas on this?
Kevin :) , the Twin Empire World towers, which will be built in the 300 Block of Biscayne Blvd, at a height of 650 feet, by the F.A.A. rules :bash: in that area, at around 56 floors. The tower I believe your talking about was about 6 blocks north of the Empire World site. :cheers:

Kevin :) , the Twin Empire World towers, which will be built in the 300 Block of Biscayne Blvd, at a height of 650 feet, by the F.A.A. rules :bash: in that area, at around 56 floors. The tower I believe your talking about was about 6 blocks north of the Empire World site. :cheers:

No I know they're both different towers I just hope the FAA doesn't deny the construction of the EWT which is a pretty good chance (like they did for Vertical City of the Americas). Oh well, only time will tell.

I thought Empire World Towers were going to be 110 stories and somewhere in/@/near the CBD. As neat as it would be to have buildings these tall (and according to Emporis, they are proposed, not visions like 'Verticus'), I wouldn't want buildings that look like EWT. They are too geometric. One looks like a 1200 foot ruler and the other a 1200 foot bloody-tampon. It would have the same effect on Miami as those 5 buildings did in Detroit: they stand out in their own right, but certainly do not fit in with their surroundings.
I'm confident there are more daring and creative architects in Miami to come up with a 1200 footer.

The vertical city of americas never had a chance, FAA or otherwise. It was some guy's dream that just happened to get some press. There wasn't even a decent rendering or website.

The vertical city of americas never had a chance, FAA or otherwise. It was some guy's dream that just happened to get some press. There wasn't even a decent rendering or website.Wow...where does one start addressing these statements?
#1 As a guy that has the 34 page Offering Memorandum on his desk, complete with a Bond Comittment from Shearson, renderings from a dozen angles, a pro-forma out to 25 years and engineering studies up the wazzooo, I can attest that is was a bit more than a dream.
#2 I'm not sure that it EVER got any press. From the Non Disclosure Agreement that I signed, I'd doubt that it ever made it to the Herald.
#3 "Decent website or rendering"...what does that have to do with anything? Great projects are sold out before they even have a website.
#4 Someone about 800 posts ago explained that the reason that Verticus was a no go was because it required the land that Pedro Martin had already purchased.
Verticus was slated to be 2,000 ft tall. The absolute tallest you can get and still have property rights! I admire the ambition!
By the way, it is still "some guy's dream". Not sure if there is any press, but hats off to the guys that dream!

excuse my brain for going on vacation.

Is the Vertical City of the Americas the same as the ugly yellow pyramid that was proposed a few years ago, or is VCOTA the same as Verticus? I was referring to the pyramid on the Biscayne Blvd properties.

the pyramid thing i saw a horrrific out of scale rendering years ago just after 9/11

VCOTA is the pyramid. Verticus is the twin tower with Marlins stadium at the base.

Did EWT get reduced in height? If so when? And if so, fuck the FAA.

Oh yeah...it's out of scale all right! Like all the other 2,000 footers!
This a weird kind of resurgence in the VERTICUS (Vertical City of the Americas), someone was talking about this at the bar last night!
http://www.restainer.com/skyscrapers/Veticus.jpg

It sure is fun to look at! Check out all the land required to get that high. It's fascinating.

http://www.restainer.com/skyscrapers/VerticusAriel.jpg

VCOTA was damn ugly...It was allegedly going to cover 3 city blocks....

Verticus is a Much better looking building....

Which building is Verticus and is it located on the same property as VCOTA was to be? Btw, what ever happened to Opus, it was cancelled right?

So are the two related or not?

Which building is Verticus and is it located on the same property as VCOTA was to be? Btw, what ever happened to Opus, it was cancelled right?

Verticus is Pictured below in the renderings provided by ROARK...

VCOTA, was to be located on 3 city blocks parallel to I-395, I believe, so no they were not to be located on the same parcel of land...

So are the two related or not?

nope.....verticuz was a true fantasy scraper

vcota was kinda a serious but stupid proposal which even made it onto the miami herald,but it never ad a chance of being built

On the Emporis.com website it shows the pictures that Roark posted under VCOTA. Who's wrong here? And was Opus cancelled or no? Anyone know?

This ought to be the final word...the picutre that was posted that had the Verticus logo on it, was in fact Verticus. The offering memorandum that I have in my hot little hand right now says, "Presenting: Vertical City of the Americas, LLC. VERTICUS
They are one and the same. There may be some other renderings floating around, but The amount of land required in order to get a 2,000 foot skyscraper was more like 7 blocks north to south and 3 blocks east to west. That is a lot of land, and a lot of green space in the heart of a CBD.
The developers proposal to the city was that the developer would pay for the Marlins retractable roof stadium, the developer would pay for the two museums among many other "donations" to the city.

Hello Roark,

As a faithful reader to all the Miami post, I seldom post. Yet, I acknowledge you as one of the more reliable, intelligent sources in here. You have even responded to one of my posts about a year ago about the mass transit situation in Miami....

I like to check out this site for 3 primary reasons, as I moved away from Miami long ago. 1. New Marlins stadium. 2. Metrorail expansion and 3. Miami's quest for it's first 1000 footer.

Your last post almost caused me to fall out of my chair. Did they really offer to build a stadium for the Marlins? I have never heard this before.

Having read this entire thread I sense that no one ever took the Verticus project seriously. Why is that? Too much land to acquire? FAA height restrictions? Lack of funding from proposed developer?

In my laymans understanding, it seems that any city would jump at the chance to have the world's tallest building, and get a free stadium with it.

Remind me sometime to express my views on why Miami has more at stake than simply a baseball team, if the Marlins leave town. Miami cannot consider itself a world class city, or even the "capital of the Americas" if it loses it's baseball team. Ken Rosenthal, a writer for The Sporting News magazine said it more eloquently than I could ever dream--and anyone interested should read it.

Again, thanks for all the information you provide. I, for one am grateful for you, and all the other Miami regulars who stay on top of the subjects that are so dear to the hearts of Miamians.....Dios le bendiga!

The Embarcadero

You never heard about this project before? There was an entire thread about this, and Hatter almost got the boot because of this project, thankfully he was allowed to stay on the forum as he is a great source of info. :)

Hey guys ---- they are different!
i will go into my house and get the rendering of VCOTA off my old laptop if i can get into the files, i have it saved on my hard drive as when i was at FIU we were discussing the potential impact of this scale of architecture on the city and the whole class received and discussed that rendering.
the VCOTA was to occupy the 800 900 and 1000 block of biscayne boulevard and was perpendicular to 395. it had sky lobbies (3 massive 20 story holes in the building) and was yellow on the exterior A/pyramid frame with all glass curtain wall on the east and west sides. the rendering is framed by a series of sponsor logos that were supposedly backing the project. ill try to dig it up tonight. heres the onlly online ref i could find the rendering is small and crappy but u can see the AAA and PAC in the corner (out of scale and location) showing it on the west side of biscayne.
http://www.local10.com/news/996728/detail.html

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

After reading my post again, I see that perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Yes, I had heard of the project when it was proposed. I think I read about it, on the miamiherald.com

What made me almost fall out of my chair was the part about offering to pay for the Marlin's new stadium. Until Roark mentioned it, I had never heard of any sort of connection between the two projects.

I am still interested to know, in detail, what makes the Verticus, (or the 2000 foot pyramid) so unrealistic (see my 3 questions above).

And now....and please forgive me for this next question...but why was hatter almost banned for keeping the thread alive? Are you serious, or is this just some inside joke amongst you regulars?

Again, excuse my ignorance.

the embarcadero


PS....is this thing with the Marlins talking to the City of Hialeah something serious?

Hey guys ---- they are different!
i will go into my house and get the rendering of VCOTA off my old laptop if i can get into the files, i have it saved on my hard drive as when i was at FIU we were discussing the potential impact of this scale of architecture on the city and the whole class received and discussed that rendering.
http://www.local10.com/news/996728/detail.htmlThe article that you are referencing calls the structure the Miami Trade Center of the Americas.
Socarras' plan is to build the Miami Trade Center of the Americas. The first section of the 155-story building would include offices, hotels and condos. The design of the building is a glass triangle that would, according to Socarres, sustain hurricane-force winds.
Regardless, the same developer has been at this for a long time, so it wouldn't be surprising if his Vertical City of the Americas, Limited Liability Corporation has put together many different renderings for many different locations. The business plan, used to get financing, clearly calls the tower pictured Verticus and it is presented by the Vertical City of the Americas, LLC. Trust me on this one...I don't want to have to separate page one of the .pdf and have to post it! :)

^ i wouldnt doubt the development corp etc is the same but i was reading/interpreting from some that they were interested in knowing if both were the same building/proposal, i was just showing the difference in the proposals. (see the comments/?s from brickell and toucano)

obviously verticus is better/newer but the point is whatever the name they are different buildings in different sites with completely different aesthetics but the same ambitions for height and etc. though verticus is much better and IMO is probably better than the forever 'forthcoming' museum park and if we r lucky hialeah or homestead stadium.
and no need to pull the trigger on the pdf i know the diff.... (if i could post a smiley here i would)

On the Emporis.com website it shows the pictures that Roark posted under VCOTA. Who's wrong here? And was Opus cancelled or no? Anyone know?
opus was killed by FDOT and the PAC-huggers who wanted unobstructed views from the PAC to the bay etc. (i will now duck and cover as i watch out for a roark rampage!)

http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-151992.html
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:F2c-x4cO5SYJ:www.absconsulting.com/news/wsj-oct10-01.pdf+Guillermo+Socarras&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a


Now that the terminolgy is corrected, are Vertical City of the Americas, Verticus and Trade Center of the Americas (ugly yellow pyramid) developed by the same person, Guillermo Socarras?

Did the Trade Center of the Americas ever truly have chance, or are you (Roark) strictly referring to Verticus? If you're saying that the Trade Center was a real proposal then I'll retract what I said earlier. I'm not the expert here, but if that guy spent any amount of money on that ugly thing, then he really is a dreamer.

That's nice, "PAC Hugger" :) :)

I know that I am in jeopardy of wandering off the subject, considering the thread title, but I need more opinions from you regulars who post in here.

Forget for a moment that the Marlins have brought home two World Championships in less than 10 years.....but why can't anyone figure out that the new stadium MUST be built in downtown, on the water!! Why must the PAC, and AA Arena get these prime water front spots.....AND THEY ARE ENCLOSED VENUES??? Yet a proposed venue for 45,000 people who really could enjoy the bay view get relegated to places like Little Havana, Hialeah, Homestead, or the wasteland that is the Dolphin Stadium area.

Hasn't anyone ever seen a Barry Bonds homerun highlight and noticed that you build a new stadium next to the water, when you have a world class waterfront city? Am I crazy, or am I the only person who thinks this way? Miami has one more shot to get it's baseball stadium right--and as much as I want to keep the Marlins in town---building another new stadium--which they will call home for 40 years needs to be built on the bay---or not at all.

I understand the funding issues, the lack of a lot of options for where it would be situated, and I respect those who want to preserve Bicentenial Park--but come on Miami---you've GOT to figure out a way to make this happen. Yes the Marlin's need a new playing field, with a retractable roof....but downtown Miami needs and outdoor venue which promotes it's city, it's skyline, and it bay view---every time the camera points to the outfield on nationally televised games?!

Maybe a little perspective is needed here. Having lived on the west coast for several years, I could always count on getting nostalgic for Miami when the cameras covering the Dolphins would pan downtown, and the bay from the OB. OOPS.....they don't play in the OB any more.......

Of course I could turn on the King Orange Parade and see all the landmarks of my Youth....Bayfront Park, etc.......OOPS...there is no more parade.

I can tune in to Miami Vice every Friday night to watch Crockett and Tubbs race down Biscayne Blvd.........OOPS!

Point is, every major event to showcase downtown to the world is either extinct---or indoors.

Miami...please think about it.

Also, as Miami's skyline fills out to a respectable level, how nice would it be if every almanac, encyclopedia, and website showing the tallest building in the world was, in essence---showing off you city?? A 2000 foot skyscraper does not obstruct the view...a 2000 foot skyscraper IS the view !

Thank you, one and all for allowing me to present my perspective. Miami will always be home, and I think it is the greatest. I have the uttmost respect for everyone of you regulars, and the passion you put into your posts.

I would welcome any responses to my opinions....

The Embarcadero

^ COULDNT AGREE MORE !!!! i think the marlins stadium has to be central to miami not in some suburb or northern county. but money and politics are playing a bigger role than whats coolest or really whats best as a functional/marketable venue.

Do you know of any waterfront parcels remaining now that Bicentennial park is going to be used for the Science and Art museums and Watson Island was given to the Island Gardens developer. I can't think of a single large enough waterfont parcel remaining. There's always the FPL station + Riverfront Project area on the river. Or the industrial area just to the west of Latitude (where Reflections was proposed and Neo has plans).

Virginia Key comes to mind but Key Biscayne residents would be up in arms. They complain about the bridge traffic created by the Tennis turnament and thats just once a year.

ive always thought key biscayne would be great to extend the metro out too... its nice and small, and has great urban potential to fill it in nicely... put a metro station or two on it... with a stop at virginia key with a new stadium... and that would be a little urban paradise... another manhattan or south beach...

and can you imagine the view that they could have of brickell from virginia key? around where the rusty pelican is...

If you run around to the opposite point of the lagoon, you have an even better view of downtown. You should have seen the four seasons go up from that vantage point. It was amazing. BTW, I think the only areas of Virginia Key that are wide enough to have a ball park are next to the sewage treatment facility.

ive always thought key biscayne would be great to extend the metro out too... its nice and small, and has great urban potential to fill it in nicely... put a metro station or two on it... with a stop at virginia key with a new stadium... and that would be a little urban paradise... another manhattan or south beach...

and can you imagine the view that they could have of brickell from virginia key? around where the rusty pelican is...

Some might consider it a paradise right now. It was always one of my favorite places when I lived in Miami. It has something others dont, that ability to be in Miami, see Miami, do whatever you want in Miami and then go home to a quiet low crime area and pretend your somewhere else. I wouldnt want to ruin that for those lucky enough to live there.

ive always thought key biscayne would be great to extend the metro out too... its nice and small, and has great urban potential to fill it in nicely... put a metro station or two on it... with a stop at virginia key with a new stadium... and that would be a little urban paradise... another manhattan or south beach...

and can you imagine the view that they could have of brickell from virginia key? around where the rusty pelican is...

about the idea of building up key biscayne . . . . i completely agree with (nimbyhater) to an extent. what you said about south beach, not manhattan. i think a building limit of maybe 500 feet or so should be in place, and a limited amount of 500 at that. because as rider of rohan said, it is already a paradise for some people. if it were to be built up i would suggest doing a very classy suttle feel; not vegas and not monstorous like manhattan; something nice and easy on the eye that wouldnt take away from the brickell and downtown skyline.

^ doesn't that describe key biscayne now? Are you meaning virginia key? I personally feel they should both be left pretty much as is, but with a street car serving the area.

Please tear down the stadium though. It needs to go.

http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-151992.html
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:F2c-x4cO5SYJ:www.absconsulting.com/news/wsj-oct10-01.pdf+Guillermo+Socarras&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a


Now that the terminolgy is corrected, are Vertical City of the Americas, Verticus and Trade Center of the Americas (ugly yellow pyramid) developed by the same person, Guillermo Socarras?

Did the Trade Center of the Americas ever truly have chance, or are you (Roark) strictly referring to Verticus? If you're saying that the Trade Center was a real proposal then I'll retract what I said earlier. I'm not the expert here, but if that guy spent any amount of money on that ugly thing, then he really is a dreamer.



I think I know it, but I'd still like an answer to this.... anyone?

Which stadium are you referring to, brickel?

^ doesn't that describe key biscayne now? Are you meaning virginia key? I personally feel they should both be left pretty much as is, but with a street car serving the area.

Please tear down the stadium though. It needs to go.

Yea I agree. The stadium is beyond repair. It is a shame though. I dont know what they will do with the land. But, I would be soooo mad if they allowed condos on virginia key. Key Biscayne already has condos. They can add taller ones there if the want, but I like it the way it is. As for Virginia Key, they should let it be mostly governmental like it is now. Oh, and Id like to see MAST Academy made larger.

Which stadium are you referring to, brickel?


The Watersport Complex, Its abandoned and hideous, but some conservationists say it is a work of art in itself...I never see it gaining the amount of attention it once had and think it could be used for much better purposes....

As for more construction in that area...I highly doubt it...The Key Biscayne residents are the best NIMBYs Miami has ever seen, there will me nor urban anything there ever if they have their way and the island will continue to be accessible only by car...Sad... It has great potential to be nice Urban/pedestrian area...

How so? It is way to small to be an Urban/Pedestrian Area. You have the beach on one side with no space for buildings. Then on the other you have a thin stretch of land. There could be a wall of condos there, but it would hardly be pedestrian friendly. The rest of the island is full of pines and mangroves and is near the sewage treatment facility.

Remember, I have been gone from Miami a LONG time.....is the Watersports Complex you refer to, the old Miami Marine Stadium? Site of powerboat races and a few memorable rock concerts? Seems the last time I drove across Rickenbacker Causeway, I pointed it out to my children, and I was dismayed how it had fallen into disrepair. I recall someone telling me that it suffered extensive damage from Hurrican Andrew, which is probably true....but I would suggest it was more from neglect.

Anyway, my 16 year old son recently turned me on to a website which gives satellite ariel views of anywhere in the USA and I was showing him Miami. He notices that many islands ( Star Island et al) in the bay seem awfully symetrical. I told him they were, because they were man-made.

This led us to banter around the idea that the real answer to a new Marlins stadium is the creation of an island in the bay...just big enough to supply the needs of the ballpark. No parking at all.....no lots....no garages...nothing. Only way to the game is a subway tunnell......passenger ferries...or private boats.

Think about it.....every new stadium since Camden Yards opened in Baltimore has some signature quirk.....the B & O warehouse in Baltimore, the swimming pool in the outfield in Arizona....the SF bay just beyond the wall at SBC park, resulting in "splash hits"....the train and hill in Houston, the train at Seattle's SAFECO Field....and on and on.....

How cool would that be.......?

PS....don't talk to me about price. Just dream with me......maybe suggest a spot for my Miami Marlin island ! It would be the coolest thing EVER!

the Embarcadero

Remember, I have been gone from Miami a LONG time.....is the Watersports Complex you refer to, the old Miami Marine Stadium? Site of powerboat races and a few memorable rock concerts? Seems the last time I drove across Rickenbacker Causeway, I pointed it out to my children, and I was dismayed how it had fallen into disrepair. I recall someone telling me that it suffered extensive damage from Hurrican Andrew, which is probably true....but I would suggest it was more from neglect.

Anyway, my 16 year old son recently turned me on to a website which gives satellite ariel views of anywhere in the USA and I was showing him Miami. He notices that many islands ( Star Island et al) in the bay seem awfully symetrical. I told him they were, because they were man-made.

This led us to banter around the idea that the real answer to a new Marlins stadium is the creation of an island in the bay...just big enough to supply the needs of the ballpark. No parking at all.....no lots....no garages...nothing. Only way to the game is a subway tunnell......passenger ferries...or private boats.

Think about it.....every new stadium since Camden Yards opened in Baltimore has some signature quirk.....the B & O warehouse in Baltimore, the swimming pool in the outfield in Arizona....the SF bay just beyond the wall at SBC park, resulting in "splash hits"....the train and hill in Houston, the train at Seattle's SAFECO Field....and on and on.....

How cool would that be.......?

PS....don't talk to me about price. Just dream with me......maybe suggest a spot for my Miami Marlin island ! It would be the coolest thing EVER!

the Embarcadero

I too have thought of this!!

The only thing though. Where would you put such an island? I'm sure there are many things that need to be addressed before such a thing could happen. I figure there has to be marine life issues, car and parking issues (because even though it's only accessible by boat, ferries, subway tunnel, etc... there has to be a location where cars can be dropped off and people can get onto those specified means of transportation.)

^ We could change their name to the Stiltsville Stinkers.

I too have thought of this!!

The only thing though. Where would you put such an island? I'm sure there are many things that need to be addressed before such a thing could happen. I figure there has to be marine life issues, car and parking issues (because even though it's only accessible by boat, ferries, subway tunnel, etc... there has to be a location where cars can be dropped off and people can get onto those specified means of transportation.)

One possible location is south of 395 where an island was suppossed to be located, you can see the pilings that were driven in there...

As to where people would park...Dadeland, UM, Douglas, Palmetto...etc...any metrorail station with plenty of parking...
We need to stop caring about where people would park, and we need to make that trivial...Its more about how would pedestrians enjoy the space rather than how automobiles would enjoy navigating to and from a location...

YOU ARE SO RIGHT !

THE SUBWAY, FERRY SYSTEM TO MARLIN ISLAND MEANS PEOPLE CAN PARK ANYWHERE....ESPECIALLY IF A LINK WERE MADE STRAIGHT FROM THE NEW MIC.....

NOW WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK...NO PUN INTENDED



THE EMBARCADERO

When i went to San Francisco and visited SPC Park, they had three main modes of transportation; Ferry, Trolley/RailCar and Automobile. I noticed that around, not surrounding, but in the vicinity of the ballpark, three nicely sized parking lots that were marked as SBC game parking. Each could easily hold at least 500 cars, maybe more. So i guess what im trying to say is, no matter how many other modes of alternate transportation you can offer, you still have to pony up some land for parking near the stadium. Cuz face it, ballplayers arriving to the stadium are not going in individual cars, or riding on ferries, or riding on a railcar-- they get their by bus, and that bus drops them off from the hotel directly to the stadium. Also think about VIP parking.

My guess, if they built an island stadium, it would be raised a bit so there could be parking under the stadium itself; take for example the AAA.

Interesting points, BornIntheGrove....

Firsto of all, you are right...there would need to be some vehicles access....team bus, fire and ambulance, service deliveries etc. This could be done with a vehiclular tunnel.

But NO cars for the general public!

INTERESTING NOTE : The Ballpark in Arlington was built right next to a Wyndham Hotel, and they designed a "players" tunnel between the stadium and the hotel....so when Arod returns to DFW he can go from his hotel room to the batters box without ever passing through any public space.

Point is....there is a solution to every problem.

I have been to many games at SBC Park ( was known as Pac Bell Park when I was living there). Anyway...we always took BART...then streetcar down the Embarcadero. We drove once....and never tried that again.

Here is my mantra......and I believed this BEFORE living in the Bay Area--Mass Transit heaven.....MASS TRANSIT NEEDS TO BE SO CLEAN, EASY, SAFE, NAVIGABLE...that is easier to use than the hassles of driving one's own car.

Anyway...how could anyone quibble with taking a boat to see a team called the Marlins, play on an island !!!! What an adventure.....marketable not only to every Marlin fan---but every tourist who is in town and wants to see his/her team play. Ferries from Ft. Lauderdale....South Beach...the Grove...etc.

Excuse me while I fantasize about this.....I mean really....I think we could pull this whole thing off for under 3 billion.....

One possible location is south of 395 where an island was suppossed to be located, you can see the pilings that were driven in there...

As to where people would park...Dadeland, UM, Douglas, Palmetto...etc...any metrorail station with plenty of parking...
We need to stop caring about where people would park, and we need to make that trivial...Its more about how would pedestrians enjoy the space rather than how automobiles would enjoy navigating to and from a location...

Exactly!, we need to become more pedestrian friendly than car friendly.

Ok, here's a map of the possible area one could put an island stadium.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/BornInTheGrove/IslandBallpark1.jpg

I'd prefer the area encircled above. Ferries would be able to reach the stadium from pretty much anywhere from the bay area. The problem with this location, is how would the authorized vehicles be able to reach the stadium. A tunnel would be nice; say a tunnel from dodge island to the stadium. Maybe the island could be situated closer to dodge, minimize the cost of building one.

Secondly, in being a pedestrian friendly stadium, how would light rail be able to reach the stadium without disrupting the boating lanes. I guess a track could be built from the stadium to dodge island, maybe even extend that track along the port of miami bridge over to the parking lot that's in between biscayne blvd and the miami-dade parking garage. They could transform that parking lot into a station, i guess--the starting point of the rail line. Maybe even expand/extend the metromover to coincide with the new station on the parking lot. And that parking lot looks big enough to house all the elements.

Finally, here's yet another idea, as if an island stadium wasn't unique enough; they could design the stadium to resemble a giant sand castle, and they could name the stadium..... you guessed it, "The Sand Castle"

Great ideas folks...let's build this thing.

Btw...my 16 year old son wants to know......does anyone think that any city, county, or Marlin official ever comes in here and reads any of this stuff? Not just about the stadium, but ALL of the issues that are discussed in these Miami forums......anyone care to speculate???

the Embarcadero

Highly Doubt It...

Didn't mayoral candidate Enrique Santos stop in and say a few words a little while back? It could have been a prank though (how ironic).

Probably not.

Ok, here's a map of the possible area one could put an island stadium.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/BornInTheGrove/IslandBallpark1.jpg

I'd prefer the area encircled above. Ferries would be able to reach the stadium from pretty much anywhere from the bay area. The problem with this location, is how would the authorized vehicles be able to reach the stadium. A tunnel would be nice; say a tunnel from dodge island to the stadium. Maybe the island could be situated closer to dodge, minimize the cost of building one.

Secondly, in being a pedestrian friendly stadium, how would light rail be able to reach the stadium without disrupting the boating lanes. I guess a track could be built from the stadium to dodge island, maybe even extend that track along the port of miami bridge over to the parking lot that's in between biscayne blvd and the miami-dade parking garage. They could transform that parking lot into a station, i guess--the starting point of the rail line. Maybe even expand/extend the metromover to coincide with the new station on the parking lot. And that parking lot looks big enough to house all the elements.

Finally, here's yet another idea, as if an island stadium wasn't unique enough; they could design the stadium to resemble a giant sand castle, and they could name the stadium..... you guessed it, "The Sand Castle"

for that it would be better to build the marlin island closer to or south of brickell key. that prevents issues with port traffic, and allows the extension of say coral way or 15th st to the island (for official traffic only of course) and then the metromover which dead ends facing east on i think 14th or 15th and brickell could be extended to go the marlins island with only 1 stop to the coral way station that transfers to metrorail !!!

Isn't the area south of the port technically part of Biscayne national park? I know environmentalist were going crazy just because they were trying to deepen the port channel. You can forget about an island.

Yeah, but we have erased all forms of practical thinking and are just dreaming and theorizing right now...

i thought biscayne national park was alot farther south... i think its northern border is a little north of homestead... but could be wrong

no birdges at all would be acceptable... maybe a metro bridge, but i think you would have to have a full on... honest to god metro rail line, i dont think metromover has the capacity to handle a stadium crowd... but if u had a metro train extending out with maybe enough room on the island for say about 5 trains to sit parked during the game so that right when the game ends everybody can file on and not have to wait 15 minutes for the train to go back and forth... and expand the station it connects to on the mainland to handle the extra crowds for gamedays...

all service trucks and such and a few vip and players can arrive by ferry and park at the very minimal parking thats so extravagently priced that it could help fund the stadium... im thinkin a million bucks a parking spot... raffle off maybe 200 bellow the stadium to help finance it...

and have a ferry terminal that docks in strategic places around south florida... miami beach by a transit station there that will hopefully happen by then for the tourists... maybe one or two in broward... one in say pincerest or directly east of kendall... the gables... north miami...

and a little helipad for medical emergencies and such...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/BornInTheGrove/biscayne-map50.jpg

So that solves it... no national park issues.

The northern border of Biscayne NP is basically the southern shore of Key Biscayne. here is a map of its borders:

http://www.nps.gov/applications/parks/bisc/ppMaps/BISCmap2.pdf

The best place for a stadium would not be an isolated island but a location sorrounded by restaraunts and bars (See Fenway). Such a stadium would be one of the few to actually help businesses around it. Actually I think Fenway may be the perfect stadium for what we are talking about. It is in a highly urban neighborhood serviced by a subway and it has no parking (it has a small lot just to the west that fits at the most 100 or so cars). To get to the stadium from the subway, people walk passed bars and restaraunts (lansdown street) and usually stop in before or afterwards (often both).

The Ben Hill Griffin Stadium in Gainesville holds 90,000 people and has absolutely no parking. It just happens to be within walking distance of atleast 90,000 people that want to attend the game. Maybe if the team was the Hialeah Marlins (not my favorite idea) then it would draw in a more local crowd.

or, think about this... an island that was big enough to house not only the stadium, but 3 or 4 restaurants, with a couple of bars as well. The island could always be open to visitors, and the views from the restaurants would be amazing. Plus, when its time to leave, some people would go to the restaurants/bars, lessening the rush of people wanting to get home.

I guess I'm the only one who thought the orange bowl was the perfect site (assuming it was served by the east/west metrorail line). I had visions of it turning into a wrigleyville.

I guess I'm the only one who thought the orange bowl was the perfect site (assuming it was served by the east/west metrorail line). I had visions of it turning into a wrigleyville.

Always liked the idea here as well...

i liked the orange bowl site too