You may refer to the news from the news.gov.hk, :|

Express rail planning gets green light (http://news.gov.hk/en/category/infrastructureandlogistics/060206/html/060206en06002.htm)

http://news.gov.hk/en/category/infrastructureandlogistics/060206/html/rail600.jpg

I think its good. BTW, was this proposed before?

There was talk last year over the location of the terminus near the West Kowloon Cultural District.

yes, it was. Part of the 2000 railroad development strategy report.

i think it has a significant cost saving by using the west rail tracks.

Are the West Rail tracks suitable for just any type of train with the same rail gauge?

^^ It is suitable for express rail. Hong Konger won't get the same speed if it use the west rail tracks for express rail.

It would be better if they fix those signal problems on the west rail first.

THE LOOP is finally to be connected!!! GOOD!!! and advanced preparation for possible NEW TOWNS in the New Territories!!!

Are the West Rail tracks suitable for just any type of train with the same rail gauge?

Yes, both the railtracks for KCR and Mainland China are the same as 1435mm. :|

great news!! :D


let the integration continue...

and a NEW TERMINUS??? :)

Maps? Pics?

http://www.etwb.gov.hk/FileManager/TC/whats_new/cross_boundary_traffic/cross_boundary_traffic_4/ERL(P3orP7).JPG
http://www.etwb.gov.hk/FileManager/EN/whats_new/cross_boundary_traffic/cross_boundary_traffic_4/ERL(P3orP7).JPG

Cool ! I wonder what trains they're gonna use.

Ming Pao's English translation from its yesterday's Editorial.
New express line linking HK and mainland

THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL has instructed that the KCRC (Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation) proceed with in-depth planning of the Northern Link and the local section of the Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou express line (previously called the Regional Express Line). The government reckons that, when the new line is in operation, it will take just about an hour to travel from West Kowloon to Guangzhou - half an hour less than it takes now. In our view, it is an important decision to connect the SAR to the nation's strategic rail network with the express line. Hong Kong can prevent itself from being marginalised from the nation's development by linking itself with an express line to the Pearl River Delta and major mainland cities. The project is thus worthy of support. However, the government ought to provide the public with detailed information on the project's financing (how its fares will be set, what return the project will yield and how the rail link will be operated). If such vital information is withheld, people may fear "the devil may be in the detail". It would then be hard for the government to win the public's support for the project.

The mainland's economy is rapidly growing, and its express rail network is taking shape. When the mainland is pushing ahead with its strategic rail network plan at full throttle, Hong Kong must make its plans and formulate its strategies accordingly instead of staying away from it lest it should become marginalised. If Hong Kong's express rail system is connected to the mainland's express network, the SAR will be connected to Guangdong's inter-city rail network and such major mainland cities as Beijing, Shanghai and Chongqing. Then, no mainland places would be too far-flung to be accessible to Hong Kong people. That would conduce to Hong Kong-mainland economic co-operation.

However, we are concerned about the cost-effectiveness of the Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou express line project as we are about that of any other major infrastructure project. The KCRC reckons the project would not be financially viable if it could only rely on fare incomes. It believes it is necessary for the government to provide financial support. However, the paper on the project the government has submitted to the Legislative Council only says in general terms it expects the rate of return from the Northern Link and the express line to be 17% in real terms. Such return would mainly come from economic benefits resulting from the reduction of travel time. No other essential figures are included in the paper. Furthermore, it is silent about how the government has arrived at the so-called rate of return in real terms. The government has to transparentise the financial arrangements for the project and reveal the figures and assumptions on which its estimates are based. Unless it does so, the public cannot have discussions. How could it then win the public's support?

The express line would have much to do with Hong Kong people's lives. When it is in operation, citizens may get aboard a Northern Link train at the Kam Sheung Road Station to Lok Ma Chau. The express line would terminate at West Kowloon, a downtown district. The rail link would help connect western New Territories to other districts. Since West Rail came into operation, its ridership has remained way below the original estimate (300,000 a day). If more people going to the mainland use its services, West Rail will be likelier to be in the black. Furthermore, when the new line is in operation, it will be easier for people living in western New Territories to go to downtown districts. The project would serve two purposes.

Nevertheless, the Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou express line would not be a monopoly. There are many transport services people going to the mainland may use. For example, they may use bus services to Huanggang. Minibus operators provide satisfactory feeder services, and their fares are quite competitive. Furthermore, East Rail services are convenient. There is indeed a wide choice of transport services. Therefore, the success of the new express line project would hinge on whether the fares of the new line would remain competitive.

Matters concerning fares must be handled with caution. Sheung Shui is only 3 km from Lo Wu, but it costs $20 to travel between the two places by train. West Rail covers a distance of 30 km (from Tuen Mun to Nam Cheong), which is ten times as long as that between Sheung Shui and Lo Wu. A West Rail ride between the two termini costs only $15. The high East Rail fare is virtually a land departure tax. That is most unreasonable. Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou express line fares must not be set in such a manner.

February 7, 2006




The original Chinese version below. :|

打通經脈避免邊緣化 增透明度防財務包袱

【明報專訊】行政會議指示九鐵，進一步規劃北環線及港深廣高速鐵路香港段（簡稱港深廣高鐵，前稱區域快線）。港府預計，這段鐵路在2013年通車後，由西九龍至廣州的行車時間只需約1小時，較現時減少30分鐘。我們認為，落實港深廣高鐵是連接全國策略鐵路網的重要決定，利用快速鐵路貫通全國主要城市和珠三角地區，可避免香港在全國發展中被邊緣化，值得支持﹔不過，港府必須提供詳細的財務資料（例如鐵路收費、回報率和經營模式），因為這些關鍵數據秘而不宣，容易使人憂慮「魔鬼在細節」，難以爭取公眾支持。

隨內地經濟急速發展，高速鐵路網漸具雛形。在內地全力推行策略鐵路網計劃時，香港不但不應置身事外，反而要在規劃和策略上作出配合，避免邊緣化。建造港深廣高鐵後，將會貫通內地與香港的高速鐵路運輸系統，無論在廣東省內的城際鐵路網，或是與北京、上海和重慶等主要城市，都可無遠弗屆，有利香港與內地經濟協作。

不過，與所有大型基建項目一樣，我們關注港深廣高鐵的成本效益。據九鐵估算，單靠票務收入，港深廣高鐵香港段在財務上並不可行，需要港府作出財政支持。可是，港府向立法會呈交的文件，只籠統列出北環和港深廣高鐵每年將帶來17％的實質經濟回報，這些回報，主要來自縮短往來人士的時間後，帶來的經濟好處等。但其他重要數據都付諸闕如，所謂實質經濟回報的計算方法亦未有公開。港府需要增加計劃的財務透明度，公開估算的數據和假設，否則公眾無從討論，遑論爭取市民支持﹖

發展港深廣高鐵與本港的民生息息相關。鐵路落成後，市民將可從西鐵錦上路站，乘坐北環線列車，往返落馬洲。將來港深廣高鐵的總站在西九龍，是市中心，對打通新界西的對外交通，有正面作用。西鐵自落成後，乘客量與原先估計的30萬人次出現大段距離﹔利用往來中港的人流，刺激西鐵乘客量，有助轉虧為盈，更可方便新界西的居民往返市區，一舉兩得。

不過，港深廣高鐵並非壟斷性的鐵路，現時市民往返內地的途徑很多，例如皇崗有巴士，周邊的接駁小巴亦非常發達，它們的票價具競爭力，加上東鐵亦相當方便，市民的選擇很多。所以，將來港深廣高鐵的票價能否保持競爭力，是鐵路成敗的關鍵。

在票價方面，要小心處理，例如現時由上水至羅湖僅約3公里，但收取20元﹔反觀西鐵由屯門到南昌站全長逾30公里，是上水至羅湖的大約10倍，反而只收15元。前者的高昂收費，明顯是變相的離境稅，極不合理﹔將來港深廣高鐵的票價，不可重蹈覆轍。

Pressure puts rail plan on fresh track
Carrie Chan
Hong Kong Standard
Wednesday, January 17, 2007

Calls for a "dedicated tracks" solution for the Hong Kong section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link are expected to lead to a government U-turn on the project.

Positive responses from the government and the two railway corporations have emerged just one day after the publication of the Report on Maritime, Logistics and Infrastructure submitted to the economic summit on China's 11th Five-Year Plan and the development of Hong Kong Monday.

The change of mind follows strong pressure from mainland provincial and municipal governments for comprehensive railway links in the region and nationwide under the 11th Five-Year Plan.

According to sources close to the senior management of the Kowloon- Canton Railway Corporation and the Mass Transit Railway Corporation and lawmakers, the turn away from the "shared tracks" option to "dedicated tracks" was not a sudden decision but the result of a cool-headed and comprehensive projection of the potential upsurge of through-trains from various mainland cities to Hong Kong.

According to a senior KCRC source, the perception that the KCRC was resisting the "dedicated tracks" solution was mistaken. For railway management, the dedicated tracks option is more welcome, the source said.

Using existing tracks of the West Rail and the North Link for mainland through-trains will, to some extent, affect normal commuter train services.

Separate tracks will not disrupt daily train services on the West Rail, whereas the shared-tracks option will require at least three West Rail stations to have platform alterations to accommodate through trains.

From the point of operation and the pressure on the signaling system, the dedicated tracks solution is also easier and more convenient.

But political insiders called for caution over optimism for the smooth completion of the project.

For instance, it will take time and much effort haggling with mainland provincial and municipal governments for agreement over a joint checkpoint.

The success of a cross-border express rail link would depend on whether Hong Kong can install a local checkpoint in the territory for immigration control and customs clearance.

The KCRC and officials are flattered by the number of mainland cities planning through-trains to Hong Kong, a fact which inevitably changed the minds of those who earlier had no sympathy for the HK$25 billion dedicated- tracks option.

According to a senior KCRC source, the HK$17.5 billion "shared tracks" option had been the favored option for transport bureaucrats who were more concerned with its financial implications.

"But if we opted for the dedicated- tracks option with an additional commitment of HK$7.5 billion, it would give Hong Kong the capability and flexibility to cope with the rapidly growing cross-boundary transportation links," the KCRC source said.

The source said that about two dozen mainland cities had expressed eagerness to link up with the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link.

A senior government source said Tuesday the merits of dedicated tracks would justify the high cost.

Calls for expediting the study on the dedicated tracks option by July this year were made Tuesday by an expert on cross-border studies - the director of Asia-Pacific Studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, Yeung Yu-man.

Yeung said that the dedicated tracks would take less than a year more to build and they could be completed by 2014, compared with the shared tracks in 2013, if construction of the link begins this year.

Good news, now I just hope they build a very nice terminus.

Cool ! I wonder what trains they're gonna use.

I was thinking of high speed ones :D

I don't think the plan is to bring a TGV or Shinkansen style of service to this line.

I don't think the plan is to bring a TGV or Shinkansen style of service to this line.

I don't even think it's necessary but it would be cool though.

I don't even think it's necessary but it would be cool though.

The focus is getting HSR for Beijing and Shanghai at the moment. The Guangzhou line will reduce the travel times by about half without factoring in the border. Hopefully the border-crossing procedures will be streamlined to get further savings. After all, Hong Kong is less than 200km from Guangzhou.

The focus is getting HSR for Beijing and Shanghai at the moment. The Guangzhou line will reduce the travel times by about half without factoring in the border. Hopefully the border-crossing procedures will be streamlined to get further savings. After all, Hong Kong is less than 200km from Guangzhou.

I think it's more practical to build an HSR from Shanghai to Beijing. On the other hand, train is still the best method of travelling from HK to GZ if not the ferry or highway. Plane is fast but expensive.

I think it's more practical to build an HSR from Shanghai to Beijing. On the other hand, train is still the best method of travelling from HK to GZ if not the ferry or highway. Plane is fast but expensive.

The Shanghai-Beijing rail line has been on the table for quite a number of years now, and a focus of attention for foreign companies wishing to cash in on this huge deal. Transrapid from Germany even built the demonstration line in Shanghai to show off their maglev technology, but in the end the government decided to use a cheaper, more conventional HSR instead. Since Beijing and Shanghai are the 2 primary cities in China, it makes sense to invest so much money to link the two. Guangzhou, on the other hand, is more a regional hub, and being so close, highways and airplanes are valid and competitive alternatives to rail. The bus ride to Guangzhou from Shenzhen is only 90 minutes. The bottleneck is with the border crossing. Ferry is definitely not the preferred method. There are a number of flights between the two daily, but add the check-in and check-out times, and in the end it takes the same amount of time as the bus.

... train is still the best method of travelling from HK to GZ if not the ferry or highway. Plane is fast but expensive.

I think very few HK people would take a plane to GZ nowadays, as both airports are far away from the downtown center. Most of them would take a train for its speed and frequent service (from SZ).

...Guangzhou, on the other hand, is more a regional hub, and being so close, highways and airplanes are valid and competitive alternatives to rail. The bus ride to Guangzhou from Shenzhen is only 90 minutes. The bottleneck is with the border crossing. Ferry is definitely not the preferred method. There are a number of flights between the two daily, but add the check-in and check-out times, and in the end it takes the same amount of time as the bus.

90 min bus ride is still slower than train, which is no more than 75 min! Also, you don't have to worry the congestions of the road if you take a train! ;)

The main problem of the KCR East Rail is that it is already in full capacity in the SAR section and no space for adding more rails for express trains. All through-trains have to slow down when entering HK. It is no good for long-term.

The original idea of the HK section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail was sharing the West Rail section, which was opposed by many legislaters. The legislaters this time have a more long-term view than the Gov't!

Dedicated Corridor :

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q144/aboveday2006/nol-erl-2_PJ74z7fgvwGq.jpg

Max Speed: 300km/h!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q144/aboveday2006/nol-erl-1_lar6PvPiIvrF.jpg

The Shanghai-Beijing rail line has been on the table for quite a number of years now, and a focus of attention for foreign companies wishing to cash in on this huge deal. Transrapid from Germany even built the demonstration line in Shanghai to show off their maglev technology, but in the end the government decided to use a cheaper, more conventional HSR instead. Since Beijing and Shanghai are the 2 primary cities in China, it makes sense to invest so much money to link the two. Guangzhou, on the other hand, is more a regional hub, and being so close, highways and airplanes are valid and competitive alternatives to rail. The bus ride to Guangzhou from Shenzhen is only 90 minutes. The bottleneck is with the border crossing. Ferry is definitely not the preferred method. There are a number of flights between the two daily, but add the check-in and check-out times, and in the end it takes the same amount of time as the bus.

That what we took back in 93, the ferry and it took up I think 2 hours.

Dedicated Corridor :

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q144/aboveday2006/nol-erl-2_PJ74z7fgvwGq.jpg


It looks like there will be a lot of tunnelling with this alignment.

300 km/h is quite fast ... much like the Thalys HSR I took between Belgium and France.

It looks like there will be a lot of tunnelling with this alignment.

300 km/h is quite fast ... much like the Thalys HSR I took between Belgium and France.

300km/h is 2.5 times faster than the Airport Express.

If dedicated tracks are used, it is more likely to be just a straight tunnelling from Kowloon all the way to the boarder; and means a lot of $$$$$. We are talking about less than 20km segment, it would only take about 5 minutes to travel across the city at maximum speed. West Rail is running at near or faster than 100 km/h between station now. The intercity trains won't stop at the stations along West Rail which means it can go a lot faster than the West Rail trains. For sure, the "high speed" train won't run as fast as a dedicated track but it is still relatively fast. Is it really worthy to build a dedicated track for the high speed train that runs only a few minutes? May be all it needs is some bypasses track between or at exisitng West Rail's stations.

The dedicated track just sounds like anohter Shanghai magnetic train to me, spend a lot of money for a system that will run at it maximum speed for only seconds.

I really wish they would use a more viaduct-friendly alignment for this showpiece. It can show off the landscape to passengers, as well as the rail system to outsiders.

But anyway, this is just an "idea"; I doubt this has anything to do with the final alignment.

I wonder what frequencies do they want to implement. Adding 2 more tracks to West Rail and then onto Lok Ma Chau is far cheaper than new tunnelling under Kowloon all the way to China.

Oh man, many of you are soooooooooooo short-sighted to view this project!!! :ohno:

I do agree it would cost more to build dedicated track, BUT we cannot put the KCR West Rail into a risk of overcapacity (Look at what the KCR East Rail right now!) and we SHOULD view this project in a LONG-TERM VIEW. It is because HK is a part of the Pan Pearl River Delta (PPRD) Area, we cannot live without this large area. Also, the GD Gov’t has already planned to have a “one-hour living circle” within the PPRD, it is really a high potential for high speed railway services with millions of population. Futhermore, we can use this dedicated track to transporting the containers, where Kwai Chung Container Terminal is on the way.

This railway WON'T be a white elephant if we view in this way!

I was thinking of high speed ones :D

I think they might use these since its spotted in Shenzhen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NVq7GLQqg&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fAu8b0o-lE

Transporting containers on a high speed railway is not cost effective. Many manufacturers are using Shenzhen because of the lower cost. It's out of the question to put an expensive new railway into freight use. If companies are shifting to Shenzhen for cost reasons, why would they pay even more to route through HK in such a way?

I heard the highest speed of freight train currently in use in German is about 90km/h, so I dont think the dedicated track could use for freight transport,the gov did have a plan to build a port rail line base on the west rail system.

East Rail track was designed at a lower speed comparing to Weset Rail track.
Unless you are talking are a very high frequency service in and out of Hong Kong from/to anywhere in the mainland, otherwise dedicated track is really not utilized efficiency.

On the other hands, if West Rail will be used for freight also, then it would make more sense to build a new dedicated track for the high speed train and possibly connects with the airport and Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge.

NOTE: Today, there are 14 inbounds and 14 outbounds train, 12 to/from GuangZhou, 1 to/from Shanghai and 1 to/from Beijing using East Rail track.

I really wish they would use a more viaduct-friendly alignment for this showpiece. It can show off the landscape to passengers, as well as the rail system to outsiders.

But anyway, this is just an "idea"; I doubt this has anything to do with the final alignment.

Maybe in the mainland section, in Hong Kong there is only one way to go: underground.

KCRC Press Release:
Joint Session with Mainland Rail Authorities Held (http://www.kcrc.com.hk/html/eng/corporate/news_centre/press_release/2007/jan/upload/EA20070118_CAD_Eng.htm)

I really wish they would use a more viaduct-friendly alignment for this showpiece. It can show off the landscape to passengers, as well as the rail system to outsiders.

But anyway, this is just an "idea"; I doubt this has anything to do with the final alignment.

Maybe in the mainland section, in Hong Kong there is only one way to go: underground.

Not 100% underground in HK section, at least it would be on viaduct from Lok Ma Chau to San Tin.

Would a dedicated track transport containers AWAY from HK to shenzhen instead?

Would a dedicated track transport containers AWAY from HK to shenzhen instead?
No, because the whole reason why Shenzhen is booming is because of its lower costs. Why route through HK using a brand new high speed rail? Would it cost less? I doubt it. Who is going to pay back the capital investment?

This is precisely why a high speed freight rail will never succeed.

RTHK news:
Separate railway corridor likely to be built (http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/news/elocal/news.htm?elocal&20070203&56&376236)

A new corridor would be a better choice. We know how well West Rail runs. ;)

I am working in the train-business, and i just have to say that they must have a dedicated line. The reason why? Because if you are running trough/express trains between GZ and HK, you cant go any faster then the average-speed of the local trains (KCR), that stop in every station, thus reducing the average speed to something like 50km/h. I have been going from GZ-HK and back a lot of times in the Xinshisu mostly in the drivers compartment (which is allowed to run for 200km/h in china, even though its possible to run much faster) On the chinese side of the border we will mostly be running att 190-200km/h, however after crossing the border we seldom reach speeds in excess of 100km/h, thanks to all the other trains running along the same tracks! Sometimes we even come to a complete stop.. Its just painfully slow, especially for a "high-speed" train. As a rule you can say it takes as long time to go from GZ to the border as it takes from the border to HK even though the distance is much shorter (maybe a third or even less). If you have a dedicated line you can just swoop trough arrive in no time :-)..
The trains dont stop at the border so it cant be considered a bottle-neck, the passengers go trough migrations at both stations, so it doesnt affect the running of the trains at all, however they slow down at the border so the guards can observe the underside of the train for illegal migrants, but i think they will stop doing that later on. Also the distances between the cities in the PRD arent long enough to require true high-speed trains like shinkansen etc., what they will be using is a train that is designed for regional traffic, fast acceleration and decent top-speed (200-250kph no problem). And as i know they have purchased a large amount of Reginas (CRH-1), a train that fits to that criteria, they will be using that...Running at 200kph on current tracks and possible slightly faster on new tracks that can cope with higher speed. :cheers: