post dedicated to the new projects being discussed ont eh Tampa and SKypoint threads.

I figured it's so big -- we ought to have an entirely new thread!

Jason, there is probably goign to be a better title for this thread but I didn't want to call it the "Cass street/Polk Street Surface lot projects" or something like that.

Strong demand for condos hatches two more downtown towers (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/07/Hillsborough/Strong_demand_for_con.shtml)

The developers of the sold out SkyPoint tower are planning two more projects a block away.

By MICHAEL VAN SICKLER, Times Staff Writer
Published February 7, 2006

TAMPA - Strong demand for condos in the sold out $31.6-million SkyPoint tower, which will be completed later this year, persuaded its developers to plan two more projects a block away.

The Novare-Intown Tampa Development Co. filed zoning applications this week at City Hall for two towers, each one planned for 34 stories with a combined 805 units. If completed, the three towers would transform an area once reserved for parking lots and billboards into a neighborhood of young professionals.

"Novare Group is extremely pleased with the market acceptance of SkyPoint," said John Akin, the lead developer on the project, in a Tuesday statement.

City officials cheered the plans, saying they mesh nicely with Mayor Pam Iorio's goal of transforming downtown into a residential neighborhood quite unlike the ghost town it becomes after a typical work day. Iorio's top projects to accomplish this are Riverwalk, an overhaul of Ashley Drive and slowing traffic on other streets.

With sale prices in the new towers expected to fetch between $170,000 and $475,000, Tampa's economic development director said the intended residents are exactly the type downtown needs.

"(Novare) is not marketing to a second home market, where a unit will be occupied only part of year," Mark Huey said. "They really are targeting a younger, more vital population that will bring energy to downtown."

City Attorney David Smith said the developers want to move swiftly. The zoning plans are expected to go before the City Council in March. Construction on one tower is aimed to begin in June, with the second for September.

SkyPoint will have 32 stories and 380 units when completed. On the block north of that project is a 1-acre lot along Ashley Drive owned by TECO. Motorists know it by the billboard that's now advertising Guinness beer. It's also where TECO employees park.

Novare plans a 34-story building stretching 445 feet into the sky. It would have 400 units, with more than half having one bedroom and averaging 745 square feet in size. Another 181 units will have two bedrooms and average about 1,143 square feet.

To the east of this property is another parking lot. This one sits along N Franklin Street, diagonal from the Tampa Theatre. TECO employees also park here.

Franklin is attracting much attention from developers. The Franklin Street City Lofts, Residences of Franklin Street, The Arlington, another loft complex, and a small building with a new restaurant, Fly, are all underway.

On the eastern lot, Novare plans to build a 460-foot-tall tower with 405 condos. It plans on 274 one-bedroom units, with an average size of 969 square feet, and 131 two-bedroom units, with an average of 1,200 square feet.

The site plans also earmark a combined 23,000 square feet for retail, which could include restaurants and delis, convenience stores and specialty shops. Developers will work with city officials to comply with public art and open space requirements, which could include brick pavers, and decorative canopies, awnings, planters and light fixtures.

On both towers, the first nine levels will be reserved for ground uses and parking with a total of 1,575 spaces.

TECO owns both lots. As part of the land sale, which is still pending, Novare will set aside 190 spaces in each tower for TECO employees. During evenings and weekends, these spaces would also be used by the public.

"One of the important factors that convinced us to sell was Novare's intention to do something now," said TECO spokesman Ross Bannister. "That's important to us. We want a thriving downtown community."
[Last modified February 7, 2006, 19:51:03]

Not much to learn, but here it is anyways.


Condo Developer Adds More Details On Units, Parking


The Tampa Tribune
Published: Feb 8, 2006
By Shannon Behnken


A few additional details were released Tuesday by the developers proposing to build twin, 34-story condominium towers in downtown Tampa a day after TECO Energy confirmed that it had been talking to Novare-intown Tampa Development LLC.

TECO said it will sell two city blocks bounded by Ashley Drive and Cass, Franklin and Polk streets if the developer provides some parking for TECO employees. The headquarters of the utility, which currently uses the vacant site for employee parking, is near the site. The complex would include two parking garages with a combined total of 1,575 spaces, according to Novare-intown's rezoning application that was filed with the city Monday.

One 400-unit tower would include 219 one-bedroom condos averaging 744 square feet, with 181 two-bedroom units averaging 1,142 square feet, the rezoning application said.

The second tower, with 405 condos, would have 274 one-bedroom units with an average of 969 square feet. The 131 two-bedroom units planned for the second tower would average 1,197 square feet.

Novare-intown also controls other downtown properties. The Atlanta-based developer is building the nearby SkyPoint condominiums on Ashley Drive and also bought the Gold Bank building at 601 N. Ashley Drive in July. Novare-intown spokeswoman Margie Martin said Tuesday that the developer plans to continue operating offices at the Gold Bank building for now.

Talk about working fast! I can't believe they are saying that they could start construction on the first tower by June!!!

I'm eager to see the renderings of both these towers. Should create quite an impressive cluster in northern DT Tampa.

I hope they have their own special design and aren't modeled after Skypoint. I like Skypoint, but three cookie cutter highrises wouldn't look right.

IF you want a good idea of the lots, just post a still from the Skypoint webcam. The parking lots at the top of the pic are the lots in question (I have no place to host a still)
As for Doran Jason - I still find it hard to beleive that ALL these buildings are going up anytime soon. To be honest, Novare has a track record and I think I prefer their projects right now.

A June start date does seem very viable for at least one tower. It would be nice to see other developers take notice of their swift action and take example of it with their own projects. (i.e.- Donald Trump)

Holy Crap!! I dont know if that part of Tampa has room for another 805 units. Doran Jason Group project has about 1,000 units and im sure the Wood/Mass Brother project will have about another 250 units, Royal will probaly have about 200 units and Skypoint has 400 units. Thats about 2655 units within 5 blocks of each other! I dont think a year ago we could consider this even possible in Downtown Tampa.

^I certainly wouldn't have... at least not for that part of DT.... Not that it isn't 'possible' in terms of physically working, but that there just wouldn't be nearly enough market for it... But hey, so far it's only like 550 units that are actually u/c or built recently in north DT.


I'm seriously starting to wonder if/when the office market DT will liven up a bit. Banks keep trickling in, but little else has been.

^ I wouldn't be surprised if in about 5 years - or once the downtown residential market has been thoroughly established - we'll see some new office towers proposed. With downtown eventually seeing action 24/7, it's only natural. Or perhaps some combo towers: part residential, part office.

^I certainly wouldn't have... at least not for that part of DT.... Not that it isn't 'possible' in terms of physically working, but that there just wouldn't be nearly enough market for it... But hey, so far it's only like 550 units that are actually u/c or built recently in north DT.


I'm seriously starting to wonder if/when the office market DT will liven up a bit. Banks keep trickling in, but little else has been.

As rich bussiness owners move to DT Tampa's high priced condos, I'm sure atleast a few will bring their bussiness with them. If not their money, which in turn brings demand, which in tern brings bussinesses. :)

Wow.

WHo wnats to wager that the two new towers are inter-connected in design? I think it's a certainty in this case because of the proximity of the buildings...

I also have to wonder if Norvare would have put the parking enterance on a different side o fthe Skypoint building, knowing that there would be another residential tower just accross the street?

Novare is to Tampa as Opus South is to St. Pete/Clearwater

I hope they have their own special design and aren't modeled after Skypoint. I like Skypoint, but three cookie cutter highrises wouldn't look right.

From looking at their website - it seems that a lot of Novare's buildings look the same.

This part of town has become quite a nice little residential community. I like the way the downtown core is surrounded by neighborhoods. Harbor Island to the South, Channelside to the East, University of Tampa to the West, and this new residential grouping to the North

From looking at their website - it seems that a lot of Novare's buildings look the same.

This part of town has become quite a nice little residential community. I like the way the downtown core is surrounded by neighborhoods. Harbor Island to the South, Channelside to the East, University of Tampa to the West, and this new residential grouping to the North

All those neighborhoods are the downtown core.^^

^lol... That's what I was thinking.

All those neighborhoods are the downtown core.^^

Yes - of course you are correct.

What I should have said, meant to say is that I like how the core grouping of office buildings are surrounded by groupings of residential buildings.

I'd be surprised if the two buildings were physically connected. One is primarily smaller less expensive units, the other is more multi-bedroom units going up to near $500k. They'll be marketed differently, laid out differently; I expect Novare wants them to be known as two entirely separate projects.
It's this that gives me at least a wee bit of hope (likely unfounded) that the two buildings will not be complete carbon copies one from the other from Skypoint from other buildings in Atlanta. We shall see. Still, as a downtown resident I look forward to having a thousand more neighbors who actually have homes.

They will be mostly glass and have spires or some sort (all the novare buidlings do). The exact positioning and where they put the various exposed concrete on the facade will probably be a bit different. Look at the novare website - you can tell the style but they change it up a little bit.

I'd be surprised if the two buildings were physically connected. One is primarily smaller less expensive units, the other is more multi-bedroom units going up to near $500k. They'll be marketed differently, laid out differently; I expect Novare wants them to be known as two entirely separate projects.
It's this that gives me at least a wee bit of hope (likely unfounded) that the two buildings will not be complete carbon copies one from the other from Skypoint from other buildings in Atlanta. We shall see. Still, as a downtown resident I look forward to having a thousand more neighbors who actually have homes.

I think all of us will be pleasantly surprised. :cheers:

Maybe they'll be like a mini version of Tampa Towers with two bridges instead of three and the pool on the bridge over Tampa Street.

That's against their MO - putting a pool suspended on a bridge over a street is a HUGE financial ivestment and Norvare does things fast and on the cheap.

I do think there will be some interconnection - though that also is against the usual construction of Novare's buildings - but it won't be anything grand. Maybe a pedestrian bridge between parking garages.

I do think there will be some interconnection - though that also is against the usual construction of Novare's buildings - but it won't be anything grand. Maybe a pedestrian bridge between parking garages. by John F

I doubt that there will be any connection. One...it will cost money that they probably not willing pay cause due to high cost of construction. Two...they don't have any history of doing elevated bridges over the road connecting buildings. Three...they will need to apply for some special permit which will delay and add cost to the projects and dealing with Tampa City Councils. Four...if they are going to connect the two new condo projects with a pedestrian bridge then what about the skypoint that is presently under construction?

By away does anybody know when the sales office will be opened for these two condos projects?

not until approval or somewhere near that.... shortly after perhance.

in the meantime I would think the Skypoint sales office could handle things such as requests and what not.

I'm still going to wager against a connection. But it IS over Tampa St, which is a key route into downtown. If they did it--and they did it right--that could be really pretty cool. Talk about your grand entrances.

I wouldn't hold my breath. These buildings are being built in phases right? From a construction standpoint, it is a logistical nightmare to think about connecting two buildings if their not built at the same time. Not impossible, just a pain in the ass. The net gain in this instance isin't really worth the time or money.

have the zoning plans gone beore the council yet? And should we expect designs at the time the zoning plans go forward?

Watching the Skypoint Web cam, I couldn't help but notice a flat bed truck and a piece of heavy equipment (what, I am not sure) on the lot directly north of Skypoint.

Prolly just a coincidence though seeing no one has approved of the new towers or anything yet.

Watching the Skypoint Web cam, I couldn't help but notice a flat bed truck and a piece of heavy equipment (what, I am not sure) on the lot directly north of Skypoint.

Prolly just a coincidence though seeing no one has approved of the new towers or anything yet.

They could be doing soil testing before they go through the trouble of getting approval or something, or surveying the land to plan out the two towers.

I think that the machinery is for the new Wood Partners building, which by the way, is going to look amazing. Especially the peak! I love the lattice.

I think that the machinery is for the new Wood Partners building, which by the way, is going to look amazing. Especially the peak! I love the lattice.

I think it'll look good too. Not as good as Skypoint, but the diagnal angle will look sweet in the skyline.

I think that the diagonal placement of the building is a waste of site space and the should try to maybe make it look like an X with a cool topper, but hey that is just my opinion.

^ I think those are the first positive comment I've seen about the look of the Wood project. I'm trusting that investors putting money into a project of this size and cost will insist on a design that will be pleasing to the eye and respectable in the eyes of the community. Besides, Wood Partners has a reputation to maintain and probably will want to develop in Tampa again.

I really hope they would have a hand in refurbishing the old Floridian Hotel. Also, I hope they do something with the Gold Bank building.

Also, I hope they do something with the Gold Bank building.

I would hope the turn the parking lot into a park and turn the Gold Bank building into apartments/lofts. People complain about not having historic towers in Tampa, when the Gold Bank bulding (I think) is older then the Flrodian. Keep the Gold Bank building!!!

Well, unless you can rip that crap off the facade of the gold bank, is it really worth keeping (unlike the Maas Building - which really was worth keeping). There are a number of old buildings in downtown that were "modernized" in the 80's, ruining their character. There are also a numebr that could be renvovated - like the seminole furniture build was - and turned into somethign really nice - but the city does not seem to encourage that with any programs of note- just kind of saying "Good for you. Thanks"

Well I wasn't saying that they should tear the G. B. building down, what I meant was that they should revamp the facade. I think the G.B building almost resembles the Marriott and Embassey Suites buildings.

Ah, what difference does it make? I'm not going to be able to see Gold Bank once Skypoint's finished anyway. It's already risen above the top of the Marriott Courtyard; won't be long, now. Oh well. All views must change. Que sera sera. And frankly I was never sure what I was looking at, with that mural of--what are they, kittens? Puppies? Aliens? You want to do something for the Gold Bank building, how about getting some better artwork for the side?

I am saying tear it down if you can't return it to its original facade. They should kept the Maas and renovated it and built the wood partner tower at the Gold Bank - the same guy went broke owening both lots.

Well I think that if I were to own the Gold Bank building, first off I would strip the facade off of the building and then redo it with like a South Beach type facade. Then put cool lighting for the lettering, address and all.

Condominium Plans Get Preliminary Approval
Posted April 20, 2006 at 04:04 PM

The Tampa Tribune

TAMPA - The City Council on Thursday gave preliminary zoning approval for a pair of downtown condominium towers by the developers of the 32-story Skypoint on Ashley Street.

Novare-Intown Tampa Development Co. plans to build two condominium towers 34 stories tall with a total of 790 units, one fronting Ashley, the other fronting Franklin Street. In addition, the condominiums will have a total of nearly 17,000 square feet of retail space and each will have nine stories of parking.
They will be adjacent to the existing Skypoint development on Ashley at Zack Street.

The developers must return on May 4 for final approval. Before that hearing, the city’s urban design manager will review architectural renderings to make sure the buildings” appearance meets city requirements.

Council members wanted to be sure the parking levels were screened from view at street level.

If the council grants the zoning change to allow for the more than 400-foot towers, construction on the building fronting Franklin Street would start in June and the condominium fronting Ashley Street would begin construction in October and each take 22 months to two years to finish.

Combined with Skypoint, Novare would have 1,070 units in the three condominiums.

The units would run from about $200,000 to more than $400,000 but the exact price has not been set.

Nice Snag! Man, if approved they plan to move quickly! We'll see what happens in May.

http://www.c-itall.com/images/view.jpg

Totally off topic, but I love this picture.

Condominium Plans Get Preliminary Approval
Posted April 20, 2006 at 04:04 PM

The Tampa Tribune

TAMPA - The City Council on Thursday gave preliminary zoning approval for a pair of downtown condominium towers by the developers of the 32-story Skypoint on Ashley Street.

Novare-Intown Tampa Development Co. plans to build two condominium towers 34 stories tall with a total of 790 units, one fronting Ashley, the other fronting Franklin Street. In addition, the condominiums will have a total of nearly 17,000 square feet of retail space and each will have nine stories of parking.
They will be adjacent to the existing Skypoint development on Ashley at Zack Street.

The developers must return on May 4 for final approval. Before that hearing, the city’s urban design manager will review architectural renderings to make sure the buildings” appearance meets city requirements.

Council members wanted to be sure the parking levels were screened from view at street level.

If the council grants the zoning change to allow for the more than 400-foot towers, construction on the building fronting Franklin Street would start in June and the condominium fronting Ashley Street would begin construction in October and each take 22 months to two years to finish.

Combined with Skypoint, Novare would have 1,070 units in the three condominiums.

The units would run from about $200,000 to more than $400,000 but the exact price has not been set.
So, when will we have renderings opf these 2 buildings?

I like the pic, try to get that into a banner if possible

Sweet, these Novare people move very fast. Can't wait until I turn on the Webcams and see 3 towers U/C in October. Just hope the buildings aren't like Skypoint, although I don't think Novare/Wood would put 4 near identical towers all within 2 blocks.

They will not all be under construction in Oct. Well, they might be, but I seriously doubt it - one was supposed to start in the summer and there isn't even a rendering, as far as I can tell.

Smiley's right to be skeptical. June start date on the tower immediately north of Skypoint and yet no rendering yet? Just height and number of units.

The second lot is supposed to start in August and you can't start on that until you've started on the 1st. If anything you'll see them laying cassions on the Skypoint cam -- if the main tower on Skypoint doesn't get in the way of the view.

I say flip the months... The first will start this October, the 2nd next June.

And that's pushing it.

Well I can see them start to dig the site for the new project in June, but I do not see them getting vertical before the new year. As far as the other project, I do not see it being started until the new year.

I saw teh replay of the meeting - they are a bit too Skypoint-y for me (would like more diversity) though one is curved. They are sited as the one on Ashley is north-south and the one on Franklin ins east-west. We shall see. I am sure the website will be up soon.

I saw teh replay of the meeting - they are a bit too Skypoint-y for me (would like more diversity) though one is curved. They are sited as the one on Ashley is north-south and the one on Franklin ins east-west. We shall see. I am sure the website will be up soon.
Skypointe-y as in a base that takes up the whole base then a slender, glassy tower portion?

The one building seems to be a spitting image of Skypoint...

http://villagerealestate.blogspot.com/

Well the rendering isnt of the best quality so I won't judge what it looks like. But the most interesting thing on that website is that it says Tampa Towers goes up for approval May 18th, VERY interesting. Its possible the "shit fianally stuck to the wall." Also remember these Novare towers and Blu Channelside's revised plan are also up for final approval on May 7th.

There is a an astonishing amount of "approving" going on, but still not much "building".

I'm starting to think that some of these landowners are getting rezonings simply to boost their resale value when they dump thier land in the coming months.

The one building seems to be a spitting image of Skypoint...

http://villagerealestate.blogspot.com/
Hmm yeah... that's kind of disappointing, but they still have the 3rd lot to make up for it. I'll be really pissed if it's the same type of thing again. On which lot is the one in that picture going? It might be pretty cool if it's the one right next to Skypoint on Ashley (next to the Residence Inn). It might give a kind of twin tower-ish effect. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic.

Hmm yeah... that's kind of disappointing, but they still have the 3rd lot to make up for it. I'll be really pissed if it's the same type of thing again. On which lot is the one in that picture going? It might be pretty cool if it's the one right next to Skypoint on Ashley (next to the Residence Inn). It might give a kind of twin tower-ish effect. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic.

You're not being too optimistic. :) The tower does look a lot like Skypoint, and it will be sitting next to Skypoint. I'll bet they will look good in the skyline together.

As for when they'll start, if they get final approval in May by TCC, I'll bet they break ground in June (as they've stated) for the tower facing Franklin. That tower will run north/south (different configuration). These guys don't mess around. And I'm sure they want to get started before the Kress project gets underway.

With all of the construction in such a tight area, that's gonna be a tough part of town to get around. :)

^You know, I've always wondered if developers have to pay anything to use public ROW for construction staging... If they don't, they should.

^You know, I've always wondered if developers have to pay anything to use public ROW for construction staging... If they don't, they should.

That's a damn good question, Jasonhouse. I'd never really thought about that. Skypoint has Zack St. closed and that's got to be inconvenient for some motorists. I think they should charge for ROW privs.

So how will Skypoint 2 impact the Kress construction? I wonder if Doran/Jason will have to block a lane or two on Florida Ave. to get their towers up; and with the Fed. Courthouse being across the street from Kress and with security concerns in mind, will they even be able to do that?

b.t.w. I like the rendering of Skypoint 2 better than Skypoint 3. I really like the spire in the center and the fact that it's different from Skypoint in its configuration.

They may not be the "best in show," but they sure as hell beat parking lots! :cheers:

^I'm pretty certain that none of these full block projects will block any major N-S route, will will instead block one of the side roads... Just like Skypoint and Embassy Suites are doing.

Well the rendering isnt of the best quality so I won't judge what it looks like. But the most interesting thing on that website is that it says Tampa Towers goes up for approval May 18th, VERY interesting. Its possible the "shit fianally stuck to the wall." Also remember these Novare towers and Blu Channelside's revised plan are also up for final approval on May 7th.

Place ur bets... I'll bet Amon builds only one tower and it will look like the thin, glass structure they added to their website. At 625', 472 units sounds about right for one tower -- the towers that we've become used to won't be built.

Final approval for Novare and Blu Channelside is set for Thursday 05/04, but with the TCC being like they are, they may not even approve them for at least a six months and a dozen reasons. Who knows...

After watching the city council gush over the Novare projects on public tv last night, I don't think there is any way that this won't get final approval in a couple weeks. The only (slight) objection was from Saul-Sena, who just wanted to make sure that the parking was 'screened' from the public, especially facing Franklin. Novare agreed in principal, and I'm sure their updated plans will be sufficient for council approval.

Blu Channelside...who knows?

It'd be nice if someone from the forum could be at that meeting to voice objections on Novare -- not cuz we don't want the project, but because of the design. If everyone doesn't feel comfortable with similar designs being close together -- you've gotta speak up about it instead of just complaining on the forum.

So what is it? Just flat out "I can live with it but it's not my ideal design" or is it "They gotta have something more original?" Not trying to cause a fight in here, but I'd just like you guys to take a stand.

I can live with it and am not harping on the design.

I agree with John. I can also live with it considering Novare actually "talked the talk and walked the walk"! They DID get TECO which owned the lots to agree to allow them to build knowing they have a solid track record. Also, considering what is there and the lack of a solid track record by someone like Doran Jason, not to mention their truly bland design(s), I say let them build these which will include some affordable units. At the end of the day, solid company with a proven track record, deep pockets, and more infill for our beautiful city. This can only help to push more infill projects to other outlying parking lots.

I'm not complaining at all. I was just reporting on how the City seems enamored with Novare, and probably for good reason. They seem to be giving the city what they want in terms of space for retail, support for public art, screened parking, attractive architecture and somewhat reasonable priced residential development. Rose Ferlita remarked at how "smooth" they were and "a pleasure to work with."

That said, sure, I'd love to see a little more variety and originality on their designs, but they certainly beat big flat parking lots.

Well the rendering isnt of the best quality so I won't judge what it looks like. But the most interesting thing on that website is that it says Tampa Towers goes up for approval May 18th, VERY interesting. Its possible the "shit fianally stuck to the wall." Also remember these Novare towers and Blu Channelside's revised plan are also up for final approval on May 7th.
Told you guys it was a proposal, but I was always shot down and said it was just a vision. Thanks for the critism, but it bites you guys in the arse now.

I think all three buildings are just OK, only because they are all so close together, kinda creating a sub-skyline (Skypointy) in the northern part of DT, an area that really needed something new for many years. If they were scattered, I think that wouldn't look as nice.

I think all three buildings are just OK, only because they are all so close together, kinda creating a sub-skyline (Skypointy) in the northern part of DT, an area that really needed something new for many years. If they were scattered, I think that wouldn't look as nice.

I agree. When built these four towers will all look like part of the same project. It will look nice. These buildings will all look like a bueatiful cluster of towers and I like their archtitecture. This will be the prime area of urbanism in the "CBD". IMO

Told you guys it was a proposal, but I was always shot down and said it was just a vision. Thanks for the critism, but it bites you guys in the arse now.

There was no proof that it was more then a vision until now. I personally would like to see one of the twins built and the glass tower. Get one of each but that probaly won't happen. Either way its a good project though.

but I'd just like you guys to take a stand.

Take a stand on what? It'd be one thing if these towers looked ugly like Kress block, but these are nice looking towers. There's not a whole lot of complaining you can do.

Why no one did this, I have no idea

From what I saw and can remember, I think this is the one just north of Skypoint and is curved
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/169/1636/1600/sky1a.2.jpg

and this is the one that fronts Franklin
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/169/1636/1600/sky2a.0.jpg

I can't tell from the rendering but is the facade glass?

I can't tell from the rendering but is the facade glass?
yes... a concrete base with glass tower - just like skypointe haha

[QUOTE=smiley]Why no one did this, I have no idea

From what I saw and can remember, I think this is the one just north of Skypoint and is curved
[QUOTE]

Wow. I thought it was the other way around. Who knew?!?!

I am quite sure I got the location of the renderings right. I am also pretty sure the one on Ashley is aligned North South and the one on Franklin is aligned East west.

Neither rendering really shows the curve, so I cannot be sure wich one is curved. For some reason I was under the impression that the one I pointed out above was the curved one, but I may be wrong on that.

As of right now Tampa Towers as a twin project is no more. It looks like it will be a single ultra-sleak tower. Go to http://amoninvestments.com/ click on projects and press current. Tampa Towers are on the second colums.

As of right now Tampa Towers as a twin project is no more. It looks like it will be a single ultra-sleak tower. Go to http://amoninvestments.com/ click on projects and press current. Tampa Towers are on the second colums.

As far as we know, Tampa Towers is a twin tower project. An article a few weeks back said they had the wrong project under Tampa Towers. Plus if you click on the "More renderings" tab at the bottom it still shows all the renderings for Tampa Towers.

Also I love the top tower that appears to be curved at the top. Thats a great affect and I like how its base has glass mixed in so who don't have three buildings next to each other with near identical parking garages. Can't wait to see more clear renderings of both of them.

Time will tell how these designs will actually look on our skyline. But one thing is for certain - I am 95% confident that the Novare proposals will actually get built as apposed to some of the other crap that never takes shape.

Furthermore, you will never here me complain about Novare who is marketing their condos starting at $200,000 rather then $1,000,000 and up. The north part of downtown will be a more affordable place to live.

Finally - at 460 ft. and 445 ft. these represent the 6th and 9th tallest buildings (exisiting or under construction) in Tampa not including other proposals

Trump Tower Tampa 600 ft
AmSouth Building 579 ft
Bank of America Plaza 577 ft
Tampa City Center 537 ft
SunTrust 525 ft
Novare 2 460 ft
Park Tower 458 ft
Rivergate Tower 454 ft
Novare 3 445 ft

As of right now Tampa Towers as a twin project is no more. It looks like it will be a single ultra-sleak tower. Go to http://amoninvestments.com/ click on projects and press current. Tampa Towers are on the second colums.
No, it's still a 2 tower project. Said in a earlier article that it was a mistake on the webiste and there will be 2 tower. I love the 2 towers than this single tower. Single one is just UGLY!.

^The single one's style is very "Panama City". (Panama, not FL)

Wow wow wow ok I must have been wrong sorry.

No, it's still a 2 tower project. Said in a earlier article that it was a mistake on the webiste and there will be 2 tower. I love the 2 towers than this single tower. Single one is just UGLY!.

Where did you get that info NPRG? Now I'm curious... :cheers:

Where did you get that info NPRG? Now I'm curious... :cheers:
you're being sarcastic, aren't you? :sly:

Seriously -- what recent "Article" specified that the Tampa Towers project is still a two tower proposal?

Yes, seriously... If someone is going to state information as fact here, then they need to disclose the source of that information.

I don't know who doesthe site that posted these pics (villageblogspot . . .see the pic adrress) but they did a good job.

Skypoint is the white buildings to the right. Notice the layout of the two buildings on the left. Also, please note - this is the Novare model - the relative heights of the builings - now I know that model heights are hardly anything to go by and they may have had a raeson to make them all look the same height - but I still think Skypoint is going to be very close to over 400' when all is said and done

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/169/1636/1600/sky_modela.jpg

Just from that pic, Tampa is going to look like a pretty big city coming into from I-4 and I 275..

The Franklin area along with channelside to the south will give Tampa a great DT look..

Thx for those models..

It is a bit exciting to see what it might look like by 2009..

That's great. Wish there were more models like it. It would be great if all condo sales centers had them showing their building against the rest of the skyline. Yeah, they all do look to be the same height, which shouldn't be the case when they are all built.

They look really really cool.

That's great. Wish there were more models like it. It would be great if all condo sales centers had them showing their building against the rest of the skyline. Yeah, they all do look to be the same height, which shouldn't be the case when they are all built.

Well actually, at the Channelside shops there is a 3D model of the Tampa skyline and some of the towers U/C. Its called Downtown 360 or something like that. And I know it has Skypoint and Trump in it. And BTW nice pic Smiley.

Thanks, but it is by the people who do this site:

http://villagerealestate.blogspot.com/

I guess they went to the meeting.

The model seems off. Look how stumpy the court house looks? A superfluous detail, or is the picture stretched?

Anyway, this is great to see - it gives a sense of scale to the area.

I am going to like the projects that Novare are putting in DT. I just wish that they would put Skypoint 3 next to the first one. It would give a twin feeling.

I am going to like the projects that Novare are putting in DT. I just wish that they would put Skypoint 3 next to the first one. It would give a twin feeling.
It's all about views. With this setup, every tower will have (mostly) unobstructed views of the surroundings. If you do the "twin towers" idea, half of the views are directly into the other building. People want to be able to look out at something.

I would love to buy one of the condos downtown now and sit on the property and sell when Trump gets finished, by then I believe that property values will be insane.

Things aren't going to keep climbing. ESPECIALLY specifically for if/when Trump is completed.

No one can afford Trump to begin with -- it's high end. Extremely high end. Novare buildings are on the low end.

Secondly, the housing bubble cannot keep growing. When single family homes with just over 1000 feet of living space in the suburbs are selling for almost (sometimes exceeding) 200 thousand, it's clearly evidence something is wrong.

Either lending institutions are going to start going belly up or something else that is clearly bad for the economy is going to happen.

Meanwhile, while you sit and wait for Trump -- a glut of new residences are going to be opening in downtown and channelside, likely bringing the price of living quaters in Downtown down as well... Especially if a load of real-estate speculators are unloading properties that they thought were going to go through the roof.

You know I wish/ hope that Trump would rethink his prices, because they are rediculous. I think that just because your Trump doesn't mean that you have to sit there and jack up the prices to an unheard of 6-million for a little over 6000 feet. that is like 1 million for 1000 square feet. That is worse than NYC.

Trump= Anti Christ of Real Estate

^???

That's whathis projects cost, because the cost to build them is very high to begin with... His margins are comparable to any other developer's. (and anyways, Trump isn't developing that building. he only sold his name for marketing purposes)

^^ The quality of his projects are also very high. It's not like he's known for nickel and diming on his projects... Gold plated fixtures, completely wired domiciles for all high tech needs, conceirge service, etc. That's Trump. He gives reasons for his stuff to cost as much as they do.

ok, I guess so.

Those 3 buildings along with the Wood Partners project, will add some nice height and density to that area. Should look impressive if all gets built.

Those 3 buildings along with the Wood Partners project, will add some nice height and density to that area. Should look impressive if all gets built.
I think it's more of a "when" at this point. I'm pretty sure all 3 of these will come up - the council loves them, and Novare is willing to shell out the cash for them. I think they could start construction in late summer, early fall...

That would be great news and from all I've been reading I'd have to agree with you on "when."

I'm not sure I'd be investing for future income potential at this point, but this is pretty good news for those of us that would like to see downtown Tampa's residential condo market develop further with future residents...

Florida's Existing Home Sales Pace Slows in March; Statewide Median Price Continues Rise

ORLANDO, Fla., April 25, 2006 -- Slowly rising mortgage rates and higher levels of for-sale inventory influenced Florida's housing sector in March as the state's market continued to adjust on the heels of a five-year record pace. Statewide, sales of single-family existing homes totaled 18,881 last month compared to March 2005's sales of 24,091 homes for a 22 percent decrease, according to the Florida Association of Realtors® (FAR).

While housing industry analysts predict that home prices eventually will cool, annual appreciation currently remains in the double-digits in many markets throughout Florida and the U.S. Realtors report that demand continues to impact housing prices across Florida, as the state's warm weather, scenic attractions and favorable business climate attract new residents.

Last month, the statewide median price rose 17 percent to $248,200; a year ago, it was $212,600. In March 2001, the statewide median sales price was $121,600, which is an increase of about 104 percent over the five-year-period, according to FAR records. The median is a typical market price where half the homes sold for more, half for less.

The national single-family existing home median price was $208,500 in February 2006, up 11.6 percent from a year earlier, according to the National Association of Realtors® (NAR). In California, the statewide median resales price was $535,470 in February; in Massachusetts, it was $339,450; in New York, it was $300,000; and in Maryland, it was $294,577.

Looking to Florida's existing condominium market, sales of existing condos also decreased in March, with a total of 6,481 condos sold statewide compared to 8,388 in March 2005 for a 23 percent decline, according to FAR. The statewide median sales price for condos rose 2 percent to $214,200 last month; a year ago, it was $210,300. The national median existing condo price was $214,300 in February 2006.

In March, the average interest rate for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was 6.32 percent -- still favorable for potential buyers, but higher than the rate of 5.93 percent a year ago. FAR’s sales figures reflect closings, which typically occur 30 to 90 days after sales contracts are written.

Note: The Tampa Bay area's existing condo sales volume dropped by 10% over last year, but values held steady with a 7% increase. The Tampa Bay area's existing single family home sales volume dropped by 26% over last year, but values continued to rise with a 24% increase. This bodes well for Tampa's developing downtown condo market.

http://media.living.net/releases/Mar06Sales.htm

I would also have to agree with the when, because why would they clear out parking lots, tear down buildings and also buy the Gold Bank and make it M&I Bank?!? If they weren't going to build then I think that none of this would be done so soon.

Ok after sitting on CTTV watching the program for three hours I finally saw the information for the two Novare projects. The Franklin St. tower id going to be having its groundbreaking in June. The Ashley Street building is planned for October.

Ok after sitting on CTTV watching the program for three hours I finally saw the information for the two Novare projects. The Franklin St. tower id going to be having its groundbreaking in June. The Ashley Street building is planned for October.
nice... and I'm pretty sure that's accurate too.

I heard it from the developer from Novare himself.

I heard it from the developer from Novare himself.

In no way does the actually mean the buildings will start on time. Those dates are what the developer, and i hope. My guess is the the first tower will be U/C by the end of summer and the other by the end of the year.

In no way does the actually mean the buildings will start on time. Those dates are what the developer, and i hope. My guess is the the first tower will be U/C by the end of summer and the other by the end of the year.

Possibly, but Novare does tend to work at lightning-pace.

Possibly, but Novare does tend to work at lightning-pace.

Ya but I think even Skypoint was a month or two late. We'll see.

If all of the hurdles are jumped, I have no doubt that site work will begin in June on what is currently known as Skypoint 2.

b.t.w. they topped the Viridian project in Nashville today. You can see the evergreen tree and the American flag blowing in the wind... Neat! :) http://oxblue.com/client/rjgviridian/

Wow, how did they sell a single unit in that Nashville building with it smack up against htose office buildings.

misery loves company.

I never looked at the Nashville projects cam. This follows the aforementioned sentiment (on the skypoint thread) that we should start expecting a floor a week on Skypoint when construction starts focusing on the main tower.

Wow, how did they sell a single unit in that Nashville building with it smack up against htose office buildings.

Maybe they just wanted to save on downtown parking rates?!?! :jk:

I never looked at the Nashville projects cam. This follows the aforementioned sentiment (on the skypoint thread) that we should start expecting a floor a week on Skypoint when construction starts focusing on the main tower.

Exactly, John. Towards the top of the tower they were actually completing a floor in 5 days. I don't understand the whole painting scheme though. It seems to me that it would be easier and faster to find pre-painted exterior panels to apply to the bldg.

I'm still learning right now. . . :cheers:

Well I do not think that it will take them a week to finish a floor. At the rate they are going I think they are trying to get as much done as they can before Hurricane Season.

Novare's request for re-zonings (from CBD1 to CBD2-mixed use) for the two towers on Franklin and Ashley were both approved 6 - 0 by the TCC with Councilman White being absent.

Get ready for some action on the Franklin site. :)

So they are going to start on the Franklin Street building before the Ashley Street building?

^^^ Yeppers. I believe they are really smart businessmen! I'm certain that they're lookin to be the "top dawg" in Tampa and they're thumbin' their nose at Doran-Jason. That's why they're concentrating their efforts on the Franlkin site first.

Janette was right when she challenged the TCC -- it's all about "timing" when you're active in the real estate business. And God knows she realizes that Novare/Wood offers a better product.

I'm curious to see how she and Jim Shimberg respond. . .

these guys are incredible. we are so used to alot of talk and no action from developers that this is hard to believe.

Wait wait... any news about, you know, advance sales and stuff? Have I missed all that? While I agree that Novare is as close a thing to a sure bet as we've got down here, but would they actually start work on a new tower without advance sales?

Novare's request for re-zonings (from CBD1 to CBD2-mixed use) for the two towers on Franklin and Ashley were both approved 6 - 0 by the TCC with Councilman White being absent.

Get ready for some action on the Franklin site. :)

Whoa! You guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves on this one. Getting approval from the city council for re-zoning and getting a green light for construction are two different things. Dont want to burst any bubbles but this thing is still pretty far out.

While I agree that Novare is as close a thing to a sure bet as we've got down here, but would they actually start work on a new tower without advance sales?

According to a friend of mine that met directly with Novare, that is exactly what they intend to do. Supposedly, these guys have the capital and wherewithall to start this project without advanced sales commitments. So they're not just talking here. I don't know if early summer is realistic, but you can bet they will push it as much as possible.

I'm ready to proclaim Novare the best in the business. As far as I'm concerned, they've wrested the mantle from Related, who are good as gold in South Florida, but shaky of late elsewhere.

I have good news. My restaurant that I work for might be looking for a place to open up downtown. It is Fuego, we are hoping to open on Monday or Wednesday. If anyone is near Brandon, I encourage you all to come. It is kind of pricey, but it is WELL WORTH every penny.
I can not wait for Novare's 2nd building to break ground.

Well if they can build it total spec, let them go ahead. More power to them. I assume they will sell enough anyway.

I can not wait to see if both projects will pull through.

Wait wait... any news about, you know, advance sales and stuff? Have I missed all that? While I agree that Novare is as close a thing to a sure bet as we've got down here, but would they actually start work on a new tower without advance sales?


Of course you are right happysmith. But don't forget that Novare has already gone through the sales process at Skypoint and had so many people on the waiting list at that price range that they had to draw names from a lottery to see who could buy there.

I am certain that they gauged the strong market demand for downtown condos under 400,000 BEFORE they decided to go ahead and build 3 more highrises simultaneously (including Wood). I would speculate that they may be able to sell out a whole tower just based on their Skypoint leads without any additional marketing.

^Additionally, the fact that Novare is moving at lightning speed and on multiple projects after Skypoint sold out should be a CLEAR indicator to everyone how strong the condo market is at the lower price range in downtown tampa. This is an excellent sign, and it is contrary to neighsayers who all WANT to see the real estate market slow down.

Well as far as the lightning pace of Skypoint I think they are moving so fast is because they want Tampa to be revitalized and to have an actual cityscape.

Actually, I think it's because they want to make as much money as they can, before the market inevitably becomes overbuilt, or thier cachet wears off.

Well as far as the lightning pace of Skypoint I think they are moving so fast is because they want Tampa to be revitalized and to have an actual cityscape.

Jason's right.

NEVER think a developer is moving quickly for reasons like the ones you are listing above. The market is going to be oversaturated soon enough and prices will come down and / or Real Estate suffer a big financial hit. They want to make as much money while they can. Nothing else to it.

Indeed, tehy only care about cityscape to the extent it makes profits - which is fine. Let them go quickly. My personal view is that in a market like tampa, development creates a market - sure they may be a few down years, but it will come back - once you create a nice area, it will fill up.

Of course...as far as city development Tampa as a whole is a little behind other cities like Charlotte, Savannah, and Albuquerque.

Albuquerque...? That's random.

I was in Albuquerque last week... not much going on... heh...

My sister moved to Savannah for work for a few years, and while the downtown is quaint for the south, I do not see how it is ahead of any city in Florida let alone most of the south.

And funny how a city ahead of Tampa would have just visited here to get ideas to bring back to figure out their own downtown...other than Hearst and Bank of America....Charlotte is well, Charlotte....insane if you think any of the three listed cities have any type of lead on Tampa.

Well according to a business vacancy report Tampa is on the tail end of other Southeastern cities.

which they get by using how many square feet of office space is in downtown to begin with, and I know none of those cities can come close to the office space constructed in Tampa already. So yea, they may have a better vacancy rate, but what office space did they have to begin with?

Not to change the subject, but I want to know why Emporis has Novare's buildings still only under proposed. Also, does anyone know if the meeting on the 4th was a positive with DT Tampa.

Not to change the subject, but I want to know why Emporis has Novare's buildings still only under proposed. Also, does anyone know if the meeting on the 4th was a positive with DT Tampa.
Emporis is Emporis, they suck at all information about skyscrapers.

O/T: When is the meeting for the Tampa Towers? Was the 5th or 15th? Not Sure

*clueless*

Emporis is Emporis, they suck at all information about skyscrapers.

O/T: When is the meeting for the Tampa Towers? Was the 5th or 15th? Not Sure

*clueless*

I thought it was the 18th actually.

I thought it was the 18th actually.
I was just guessing, you might be right

I actually thought it was the 4th.

bump

huh?

huh?

"Bump" is when you post just to get a thread to the top of the forum. I wouldn't reccomend doing it though, especially if there is no news on the threads topic.

And anyway i've been checking Novare's website almost everyday, to see when they'll put up a page for this project, and maybe a website. They should get it soon since they expect construction to start next month. (Which if it does i'll be extremely happy)

As would I. Would they start construction without notifying the public because I did not see any signs that stated otherwise. Meaning that I did not see any signs for closure of the two lots.

There is a shovel on the lot immediately north of Skypoint this weekend (Forht of July weekend).

I have my dbouts that this is tied to the construction of the towers ont eh news sites... The billboard remains up on the lot.

I was thinking about that to myself, what could it be used for if it is not being used for the new Novare project?

Parking :p

EDIT 1 PM 7/3/06

OK, so much as for my snarky reply. They've broken through the asphault on the lot in a couple of places and there is now a backhoe there as well. People are still parking on the lot but anyone who has paid attention the last couple of weeks has seen the numbers dwindling.

Someone needs to get in touch with the Skypoint sales office and ask about the new project and see if it's gone to sales or anything.

Yea, I am not sure what they are doing there. It does not appear that theya re ripping up the lot - but it does not appear that they are fixing it either. Maybe they are making some hole to come by and do some sampling - though I thought they were planning to do the Franklin building first anyway

^Definitely sounds like they're going to be drilling up soil and bedrock samples for final foundation design.

You look at the positioning of the work and the sentiment that it's testing is re-inforced -- on the camera you can see it's the corners of the lot and the center of the lot where they've taken up the asphalt.

That part of Tampa DT is going to look very progessive say around Dec 2006 with as many as 7 cranes in the area..

1 Skypoint
4 Novare
2 Woods --Maas

I am assuming that the Novare projects will have 2 cranes on each building..

Novare = Git er done.

That area is going to be quite dense too. Don't forget the Floridan, Woolworth, Grant, and the one proposed where the post office next to the floridan is. Then you have all that stuff at the top of franklin street.

It is going to be 30-40 stories all the way down franklin st past the Tampa theatre. Tampa will be looking filled in.



That part of Tampa DT is going to look very progessive say around Dec 2006 with as many as 7 cranes in the area..

1 Skypoint
4 Novare
2 Woods --Maas

I am assuming that the Novare projects will have 2 cranes on each building..

You are so right, hoping that Kress and Tampa City Lofts get's done by late 2008.

:omg: :omg: :soon:

Not to burst bubbles, but they're drilling test piles, running compaction tests, boring samples, etc. In construction terms: this means absolutely zero, nothing.

With some of the expectations in here and on the forum, I think bubbles do need to be burst.

Not to burst bubbles, but they're drilling test piles, running compaction tests, boring samples, etc. In construction terms: this means absolutely zero, nothing.

It means plenty, because without that work, the project could never progress through final design and permitting...

The bubble that needs burst is that of the people who buy the developer's marketing BS, and think that this project was going to break ground this summer, let alone this year.

There is no reason to not think there is somnething going on.. Each day more cars are not parking there..

And who cares if it is not July when they break ground, if it is September they will still be done by Jan 2009..

WHY is January 2009 such an important date? I'm trying to figure out why post after post comes up on the forum about being done before 2009 or at 2009...

You think the Super Bowl is that important that everyone, everywhere is going to foam at the mouth knowing that Tampa built more towers since the last time the city hosted the Super Bowl? No one really gives a shit about that stuff -- they care about the game.

ESPN isn't going to be covering Tampa's construction boom the week of the game, you're not going to have business leaders from the nation going wacko on air to impress upon the nation the change Tampa has made.

I'm being a cynic and I'm being rude but setting a December 2008/January 2009 deadline for everything is ridiculous. The earth is going to be turning, projects will still be happening and problems still arising from poor planning. It's life.

Being a life long Tampanian, this is what I want done.. It might be selfish..I don't care at all.. I agree they are here for the game, but people did talk about how San Diego looked, compared to before the 2003 game..

They will show our skyline many times, leading up to the game and it is some what of an addiction now that we have several buildings going up.. I want more and more..

John F you can't tell me Miami's skyline will not be of conversation leading up to the 2007 Superbowl..

Yes I can tell you the skyline won't be a conversation item leading up to the game. I'm a huge sports fan and I've learned through coverage year after year they'll focus on the beach. They ALWAYS do. They'll do exactly the same with Tampa Bay -- they'll focus on the water, on the placid, temperate conditions compared to up north as if the instill jealousy among the people up north during the middle of winter... and they'll talk about the GAME. The guys who are in the game, those who are attending the game.

I've lived here 17 years and have watched the Super Bowl, the World Series, the Stanley Cup and the NBA Finals... I know what producers go for because it happens over and over again with these events. Will they flash the skyline on screen before returning to coverage? Sure, maybe once or twice. They've done that with Monday Night Football for years...

Treating January 2009 as the end-all-be-all of the city is just overglossing, overhyping and overstating developement. No one is ultimately going to care, or those who are impressed aren't going to drop everything and just stare in awe as if it were heaven itself. Do we want Tampa (the city and the region) to make a good impression on people? Of course we do... But you'll hear more about strip clubs and the beaches than you will about Tampa's development. You'll read more about it too. And what will trump things entirely? The game, because that's why they're having an event in Tampa (or Miami this year, or wherever it is in 2008). The Super Bowl is the game and that's where the focus belongs - on the game, on the players, and on the storis that surround both rosters.

WHY is January 2009 such an important date? I'm trying to figure out why post after post comes up on the forum about being done before 2009 or at 2009...

You think the Super Bowl is that important that everyone, everywhere is going to foam at the mouth knowing that Tampa built more towers since the last time the city hosted the Super Bowl? No one really gives a shit about that stuff -- they care about the game.

ESPN isn't going to be covering Tampa's construction boom the week of the game, you're not going to have business leaders from the nation going wacko on air to impress upon the nation the change Tampa has made.

I'm being a cynic and I'm being rude but setting a December 2008/January 2009 deadline for everything is ridiculous. The earth is going to be turning, projects will still be happening and problems still arising from poor planning. It's life.

You're not being the least bit rude imho... As you say, basically NOBODY gives a shit what the skyline looks like, except for freaks like us on this forum, and maybe a handful of concerned local boosters.

The typical Mr Hotshot Corporate Fat Cat attending the game will be much more impressed with our many strip clubs, and the bronze-skinned, rubber titted sluts that populate them.



[edit]
Oh yeah.... And if it helps, I've lived here over 20 years now, and I used to work part-time for the Tampa Sports Authority/Bucs (2002-2003), gladhanding the fat cats in the luxury suites during games... And when I answered questions about the area's attractions and so on, NEVER ONCE in the two seasons I did that was I ever asked about the skyline, or heard any remark about the skyline.




But anyways, back to the thead's topic...

If you don't mind me adding my oppinin before this gets to off topic about the above subject. I really don't care how the skyline looks for the Super Bowl, although it is a nice bonus to have it more built out, which it should be. What I really care about is how nice Downtown is, from ground level, with stuff to do and restraunts and shops, stuff we really don't have now. And stuff that people are going to visit. Having a nice Downtown will help us get more attention as a better overall city, and will help us in getting more Super Bowls. Remember, a growing Downtown was a key point in getting this Super Bowl.

Since we're on the subject and this is a development thread. What is your opinion on the Tampa Bay sports scene in general in relation to development?
Do you all feel they, as a whole or industry, have contributed to the increased development in the region?
I ask because I TRULY only began to follow the Bucs and other local sports franchises once there was a threat of them leaving after the Glazers purchased them.
I felt very strongly that if they left, even though they were horrible at the time, the region would generally suffer in terms of attracting companies or retaining companies.
One (of many) reasons companies choose to relocate to the area besides our great weather, workforce, beaches, and attractions has been the strong "sports" attraction.
I know this topic is not generally discussed as a development tool but you see government cite this and others above as "strenghts" when recruiting companies to the area which in turn fill those office buildings, which in turn lead to a "need" for additional housing whether it be workforce or affordable housing as well as these high priced condos which executives and such from these relocated companies often purchase.
Your thoughts guys???

TPA, we went off topic and we really should get back on topic. If you want to start a thread about that -- go ahead.

Posting this here because of the catch-all title for Novare

Will Atlanta Work in Tampa (http://sptimes.com/2006/07/10/Hillsborough/Will_Atlanta_formula_.shtml)

An Atlanta condo developerturned a gritty site near Georgia Tech into an enclave. Now it targets Tampa Bay.

By MICHAEL VAN SICKLER, Times Staff Writer
Published July 10, 2006
ATLANTA - Five years ago, much of Midtown Atlanta belonged to vagrants, empty storefronts and weed-filled lots.

"It was hardly the place to live," said Ju Ha, a 26-year-old financial analyst.

Now Ha is scouring for a home here, where high-rise condos and renovated townhomes are elevating Midtown into one of Atlanta's most exclusive areas.

"If you're a young professional, there's no other place you'd rather live," Ha said.

Few get as much credit for Midtown's transformation as Novare Group, an Atlanta development company that built or renovated more than 1,500 condo units here in the past decade. Now, Novare is marching across the Sun Belt with its hot brand of urban dwelling, and has set down roots in Tampa.

"Novare was the first to recognize there was a Midtown condo market," said Ellen Dunham-Jones, director of the architecture program at Georgia Institute of Technology. "They took a risk, and it worked."

Already, the Novare imprint on Tampa's downtown is visible from Interstate 275. Teaming with a local development group, Novare is erecting a gleaming 32-story downtown tower, SkyPoint, at a rate of one floor a week on Ashley Drive. Novare is set to begin another high-rise this summer, with a third to follow.

That puts Novare far ahead of other developers in a wave of residential construction that could finally awaken a downtown prone to closing at 5 p.m.

How the downtown grows over the next decade could hinge on whether Novare can duplicate its Midtown success of introducing the urban lifestyle to 20-somethings weaned on suburbia.

If it works in Tampa, development industry analysts say, downtown will never be the same.

"Tampa needs to know that its downtown is about to change," said David Haddow, an Atlanta consultant. "Novare is for real. They have a track record, and it's real strong."

***

A Novare Group condo isn't so much a home as it is the promise of a posh lifestyle that will impress friends.

In Eclipse, a glitzy 358-unit condo project in the tony Atlanta enclave Buckhead, tenants can program favorite artwork on a flat-screen TV that greets them in the downstairs lobby.

Clubhouses come with flat-screen TVs, laptops, PlayStation game sets, sleek marble-top bars and pool tables.

Just as seductive are the condos themselves. Cherry wood doors and cabinets. Wood floors. Floor-to-ceiling windows that light up a room at night with the glow of downtown.

At Twelve, a 26-story hotel and condo project Novare opened last year in Midtown, hotel guests share amenities with condo tenants, including a concierge and maid service. A chic restaurant from one of Atlanta's most celebrated chefs is on the ground floor.

But it's not the corporate elite or Hollywood VIPs that Novare (pronounced No-VAIR) wants to live in its projects. It's the highly paid - but by no means wealthy - young professionals.

So far, there have been enough of them in Atlanta to make Novare a leader of the condo boom taking hold of Midtown and Buckhead, where more than 10,000 condo units have been built or renovated in six years.

Haddow said Novare sparked this surge by anticipating earlier than most developers the demand for high-rise condo living.

"They discovered a mouse trap, and they'll keep building it until it runs out of steam," he said.

The founder of Novare, Jim Borders, bristles at hearing the nickname a local business reporter gave him: Atlanta's "condo king."

He said such a tag is too puffed up. Soft-spoken but intense, Borders plays down success as a stroke of luck. But he heads a company that is now expanding its condos and hotels not just to Tampa but also to Austin, Texas; Charlotte, N.C.; Phoenix and Nashville.

Borders started Novare in 1992. Two years later his company bought an office building along a key stretch of Peachtree Street in Midtown.

He converted the offices into apartments and called it Peachtree Lofts. He took it condo in 1999, and the units sold out within months. Novare, almost by accident, had stumbled onto something.

"That was the one," Borders says now. "We were like the blind squirrel who finds a nut, but that convinced us there was a demographic out there that was leading a charge for urban housing."

Borders bet big money that condos could work on a grander scale with Metropolis, an $81-million condo project that Novare began building in 2001 with another Atlanta developer, Wood Partners.

At 21 stories, Metropolis hulks over Midtown. Its semi-Modernist architecture and green-tint windows suggest the high-rises of Vancouver, British Columbia, another city remade by its condo towers. Its 40,000 square feet of ground floor retail include a day spa, sports bar, home furnishing store and a sushi cafe.

The 498 units sold out within a year.

"That validated what we wanted to do for Midtown," Borders said. "We knew we had something."

***

By now, it's obvious Borders has a formula.

Haddow calls it "volume and light."

The volume of units keeps costs down.

Borders said Novare can market luxury amenities such as granite counter tops because it orders materials by bulk for each project, an efficient assembly-line approach.

"It's a Henry Ford concept," Borders said.

The "light" part of the formula refers to the typical floor-to-ceiling windows found in a Novare condo.

The windows make the condos seem larger than they are. To offer the prices they do, Novare must squeeze as many units into a building as possible. Novare found buyers can tolerate between 750 square feet and 1,300 square feet.

Those units are smaller than the type of units sold to empty nesters, who like extra storage and foyers. Novare trumps up its condos' clubhouses as extra living rooms. All that uptown luxury, however, comes with a price tag.

Eclipse, for instance, sells a two-bedroom condo at prices ranging between $311,000 and $370,000. Not included in that price are monthly fees of more than $320 that cover maintenance of the tower's amenities.

Stacy Scott, a 33-year-old ad agency finance director, paid $427,000 for a 1,100-square-foot condo at Twelve in Midtown. She thinks her $360 monthly fees are a bit high, but accepts the added cost because she loves being next to a mega shopping hub.

"It's all about the lifestyle," Scott said. "I can walk the dog and get coffee in the morning."

Location is a third key element to Novare's formula. It builds only in thriving retail centers or areas it bets will soon take off.

For Neelu Daswani, a 30-year-old Coca-Cola employee who has lived in Metropolis for three years, her home's location is the best part.

She can jog at a nearby park eight minutes away. The dance clubs she likes are four blocks away.

"Well, yeah, there's no yard, but who needs it?" Daswani said. "There's such a social scene here. "

Not all young Atlantans are sold on Novare's formula. Tesh Patel, a 27-year-old consultant who lives in a Midtown brownstone, calls Metropolis a "massive glass monolith."

"Novare's condos aren't something I would buy," Patel said. "They're cookie-cutter and mass marketed so they all end up looking the same, like office buildings."

But he acknowledged that Novare had cleverly marketed its condos to a growing group of consumers. The company's success with its business model, Patel said, had accelerated Midtown's own evolutionary shift toward youth.

"It's been a positive," Patel said. "Buckhead used to be where the social scene is, but that's shifted to Midtown. Novare has certainly been a part of that."

nnn

Tampa's downtown is another matter.

It's startling to stand on Tampa Street on a weekend night. While St. Petersburg's downtown teems with crowds, Tampa's is a lonely outpost of impersonal office buildings and empty parking lots.

Much of that could change in the coming years. Developers are planning 38 condo projects in Tampa's downtown and Channel District. The vast majority have yet to begin construction. With SkyPoint, Novare has grabbed an early lead over others, said Michael Chen, director of Tampa's urban development department.

"No other developer has quite as many irons in the fire," Chen said. "(Novare) is building faster than just about everyone, so they'll be among the first to get to the finish line. Novare's presence has nudged us closer to achieving (Mayor Pam Iorio's) goal of making downtown a residential neighborhood."

It's more than symbolism that Novare has chosen to build SkyPoint and two other projects where cars once parked.

Novare officials say SkyPoint's 380 units will fetch from $170,000 to the upper $300,000s. It's expected to open next year, but it's already sold out. A second project, Mosaic, diagonal from SkyPoint and along Franklin Street, will begin construction this summer of its 400 units.

Novare plans a third tower across from Mosaic and next to SkyPoint, but hasn't announced when that will start. A fourth property, bought by Novare in 2005, has not announced plans. Company officials say they plan to launch a Twelve project in Tampa soon.

In addition, the company filed plans last month for a Channel District project, a 28-story high-rise with 405 condos.

Novare has moved swiftly. It has snagged premier land for its projects, not an easy task for an out-of-town company, because it has hooked up with a well-connected local development team, the Intown Group. Led by Greg Minder, Intown carries some gravitas with developers like Dick Beard and Joe Taggart aboard.

"Real estate is a local business," Borders said. "It was unbelievable what Intown was able to do in getting the site at SkyPoint."

Borders isn't worried about selling out the condos once they're built. Tampa Bay has about 20,000 people between the ages of 25 and 34 who earn $75,000 or more, he said.

That demographic is, nationally, seeking more urban housing than previous generations, said John McIlwain, a senior fellow for housing at the Urban Land Institute.

"You have a significant migration of young people to downtowns," said McIlwain. "Developers of this type of housing have demographics on their side."

Partly because it skews so young, Novare's array of projects will provide a life to downtown that has eluded it for more than half a century, Borders said.

"What we're doing is concentrating luxury residential into downtown rather than having it scattered all across the area," Borders said. "Three years from now, Tampa's downtown will be very different because of it."

http://sptimes.com/2006/07/10/images/novare-map.jpg

Thanks John. Awesome article.

Good article. a few points-

So now we do not know if they will start construction this summer, start sales in december, or both

2) "It's startling to stand on Tampa Street on a weekend night. While St. Petersburg's downtown teems with crowds, Tampa's is a lonely outpost of impersonal office buildings and empty parking lots." Typical. Yes, Tampa is basically dead - but "teeme" - I think not. St. Pete is doing a good job, but I have yet to have to walk in the street because the crowd on the sidewalk is so big.

3) hmm, fourth lot - I wonder - could it be a 32-34 story, conrete and big window condo?

^^The article said the fifth tower South of Skypoint is a Twelve project. If you go to Novare's website you can see the Twelve projects are usually larger and more distinct with a hotel.

Smiley, I'd agree with you on the "Typical" remark regarding the "shuts down at 5" remark but after seein someone post photos on Flickr and complain (an out-of-towner) in the exact same light -- I really can't fault them for saying it. You (and I) can complain about the broken-record quality to the statement but it is definately still a truth.

My point on "typical" is over selling St. PEte -as though it is Picadilly Circus on a summer weekend. Like I said, St. Pete is doing a good job, but you need to keep things in perspective. I am not saying, Tampa - especially what some call the cbd - is not dead

As for the twelve - that would be nice - but, as with much, the article was not clear.

I finally heard back from the city of Tampa with regards to the Trees around the new projects (Mosaic and the un-named tower north of Skypoint).

Just to give backstory first, if you guys don't remember we had started talking and wondering what would happen to the younger Oak trees surrounding the lots that the new Novare projects were going up on. I had noted that there were trees originally along the lot where Skypoint is bieng constructed and they were moved or removed in order to make way for the building.

The city of Tampa says that they will be moving or replacing the trees in question. Yeah, short answer that gives little details but that's it.

The City of Orlando dictates that any new development that requires the removal of trees shall also be required to replace to the exact diameter or greater. Basically, if you remove an oak that is 24 inches wide you must replace it with trees that are a combined total diameter whether you replace it with 4 or 1, it does not matter. You can opt out to pay an impact fee of sorts, but it just depends on the project.

There are a lot of ordinences like that. Tampa is supposed to have strict tree removal ordinences. Clearwater waived theirs, unfortunately, for the new sprawl-strip-mall at the Clearwater Mall site (Gulf to Bay / US 19) so old oaks were allowed to be replaced with fewer trees as well as different species that don't provide a canopy (Palm's)

Drove by the Mosaic site today and noticed they have installed the black barrier plastic (not sure exactly what this is refferred to) around the site. Looks like groundbreaking is nearing!

^That is usually called a silt fence, or staked erosion control.

Also read Six Ten Franklin is planning a November groundbreaking? Do you think they would break ground at or around the same time as Mosaic considering the perceived slow down in the market? I assume they have the pockets to do so just as Novare.

The prices in both projects are low enough that there will be a large pool of potential buyers, even in a normalizing market.

That would be amazing to have two towers going up in DT with Skypoint being finished soon. I can not believe it. A few years ago if you would have told me Tampa will be getting a residential (other than UT) downtown I would have laughed at you.

BTW, drove by the site again today and realized the site that is actually being worked on is actually the one on Franklin itself, not the Ashley site. I thought they were going to do the Ashley site next? Maybe I'm just confused???

Franklin was the 2nd project and Ashley (North of Skypoint) was after that.

But thanks for the tip about everything being squared off. You haven't been able to see that lot in question for several weeks now on the OxBlue cam.

BTW, drove by the site again today and realized the site that is actually being worked on is actually the one on Franklin itself, not the Ashley site. I thought they were going to do the Ashley site next? Maybe I'm just confused???

I think orginally it was supposed to be The Ashley Street project to break ground first, but I guess they changed their mind.

Ok the guy at Village Real Estate (who often has good renderings early) posted this
http://www.novaregroup.com/images/portfolio/element.jpg

And says:
Monday, September 25, 2006
Looks like Mosaic was only a code name...the new Novare project will be called Element...395 units over 400 feet...construction is underway!
http://villagerealestate.blogspot.com/

I cannot verify this at all. Novare's website http://www.novaregroup.com/development_projects.html
says nothing about either Element or Mosaic

BY the way, what is the deal with the screwed up avatars

RE the Avatar's: Probably got screwed up on the server switch.

That rendering looks a lot like the Austin project from Novare

Yeah, Element was announced this morning in the Monday Morning Memo from Tampa Downtown Partnership. I made a phone call to confirm. Turns out that there is a condo project in Miami called "Mosiac", so Novare decided to change the name to "Element".

Did you confirm that construction is underway? That would be completely odd

Negative on construction, but there is definitely activity on the site. :cheers:

Activity is good. IT is often a precursor to construction.

Keep an eye out for a web site for Element. And if any of you guys have some spare time -- take a run over to the Skypoint sales office and ask if they are handling Element sales / know of Element's web site.

http://www.novaregroup.com/portfolio_element.html

Currently you can not get to the above link via the current projects link on Novare's site. The project url indicated on the page will be: http://www.elementofyou.com/ (Not ready yet).

THey have barracaded the site and there is a trailer (I did not get a good look because I was driving on Florida, but you can see it)

Great job Young!

LOL.

It looks identical to Skypoint, heh. I like it though.

And now Village has a different rendering, if anyone cares to peek.

Ok the guy at Village Real Estate (who often has good renderings early) posted this
http://www.novaregroup.com/images/portfolio/element.jpg

And says:

http://villagerealestate.blogspot.com/

I cannot verify this at all. Novare's website http://www.novaregroup.com/development_projects.html
says nothing about either Element or Mosaic

Element looks great IMO. You know I don't mind one bit that these 4 towers look similar (Wood and 3 Novares, and maybe a 12 project?) To me its all one super-project being built in phases. The subtle diferences will mix it up nicely and will be a nice neighborhood, the greenish tent is cool too, here's the other one...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/169/1636/320/element.1.jpg

Village?

IF you note this picuture, referenced in the Franklin St thread
you see the lot barraded (not just fenced off) all the way out in the street, with a trailer and ripping up the lot. That looks like some real intent. ME gusta.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7385/3022/320/downtown%20asst.%20016.jpg

Village?

... Real Estate.

I'd hate to hot link, but they have a day time rendering that shows some variation between the designs a bit better... mostly color wise.

I like this building. I like also that it is lit up at night on the top of the building.

Why the name change? It appears Novare had previously named a project they were considering in Houston "Mosaic". Here's a pic of the project which has long since been removed from their "current projects" list, although I'm not sure if it has been approved or scrapped.

Mosaic, Houston
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/3016/houmosaic16sd.jpg

Yes, "Element" does look similar to the Skypoint design, but like many posters, I think it's a very attractive tower.

I like the lit-up spire as well, mobster21. It's going to look great in our skyline, both day and night! :)

b.t.w. I like the name change. It's got a good ring to it. Now bring on Element II . . .

And you can also not that the warning signs and barriers at the end of the barracades (in the middle of the normal road) look kind of long term - not to get too excited, but then Novare surprised me when they started Skypoint out of the blue withoug much fanfare
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7385/3022/320/downtown%20asst.%20016.jpg

^^ Thanks for the update, Smiley. I didn't have a clue that they were even on site until your update.

I'm totally stoked to see them already working. With the trailer set up and all, they'll be pounding caissons before Christmas!

Maybe we'll get lucky and Oxblue will set up the cam on Skypoint's spire. ;)

Sweet you guys figured out how to get my picture on here. Thanks Smiley.

Ok, I was down there today and tried to get a better look. Plainly they have taken up lanes in the surrounding roads - much more of a construction setup. They have equipment out there and appear to be ripping up the parking lot - so there is no construction right now, but it looks like a construction site, not jsut a fenced of empty lot. Interestingly, there is no sign that I could see.

IT would be interesting if someone could go by the Skypoint sales office (I have no time for that)

I will call the Tampa Downtown Partnership tomorrow. Does anyone want me to find out any other information?


RE: Smiley: I think that is what will end up happening. I think that Novare will start on the building before they actually start selling any units. Actually, have they even started to sell any units?

I have a larger picture of the second Novare project.http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7385/3022/1600/downtown%20asst.%20016.0.jpg

^Yeah, find out the last time that a developer, given the current market volatility, has started construction on a residential high-rise without selling one single unit, and then get back to us.

I am currently working on two projects with them (Novare) in Atlanta, so I dont mean to take anything away from them or their abilities. There just seems to be this false idea circulating these boards (not all members) of how this process actually works.

Perhaps they are doing "construction related" business on site, but that means nothing, even when units are sold (i.e. TTT).

I know this and I know many developers who have started a project without selling a unit. I just hope that they do not have a half done tower with nothing sold. I would rather to have nothing on the site than have a half done tower looming over the street and the city.