Chicago has a lot more alleys to work with.. Most of Louisville doesn't have the luck of being so urban, unfortunately. So most of the lines would end up in backyards, and residents would flip their shit.

Almost the entire city of Chicago has its power lines located in alleys. We almost never experience an outage. It is also a huge contributor to the attractiveness of Chicago's streets.

Chicago also has a lot less older big trees trees which are really the problem here. We could take down all the big older trees and that have to worry about power outages either. Personally I'd rather keep the trees.

Chicago has tons of huge older trees - they are on our streets, however, not in our alleys for the most part.

Utilities won't be buried by E-ON. My guess attached to future development approvals where applicable. In other words you and I are accessed the "tax without representation" as a public infrastructure improvement. I would support a comprehensive plan to move overheads to undergrounds via a slush fun and/or prorata expenses levied over a number of years and rebates to capitalize. I would furthermore support burying where speeds are above 35mph on county/state roads becaue of the inherent traffic hazard they create if w/in 15 feet of the edge of curb. Neighborhoods, well forget it unless neighborhoods want to do and then access individuals where applicable but I would venture to guess there wouldn't be any majority support, not when it would require getting a checkbook out - all of a sudden the generator and discomfort become tolerable.

I recall the cost on one project I worked on and evaluated w/ my engineers and LG&E reps was for the burying of 5 major distribution lines and the cost was $1.2M w/ concrete vaults and transformers. This is doable for a large project but isn't going to happen w/ a single stand alone plan.

With a big thanks to brokensidwalk.com, it appears the existing lattice tower is coming down.

http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/02/24/museum-plaza-electric-towers-go-wireless/#more-3637

With a big thanks to brokensidwalk.com, it appears the existing lattice tower is coming down.

http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/02/24/museum-plaza-electric-towers-go-wireless/#more-3637

That works for me.

what is a brokensidewalk?.com do they actually inform the city of the broken and deterioated sidewalks in metro?

^^
Sarcasm, right?

:nuts:

yep

I really don't get the metaphor

^^I don't get the metaphor either, but it's a great site for louisville news.

Developers haven't thrown in the towel yet. Story from broken sidewalk.
http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/03/05/museum-plaza-watch-trust-us-this-things-getting-built/

Museum Plaza Watch: ‘Trust Us, This Thing’s Getting Built’
3 Comments | Leave A Comment

Craig Greenberg went before Metro Council today to answer the tough questions about the state of the Museum Plaza development. We didn’t have a chance to sit in on the Q & A but did read over a letter Greenberg sent to Metro Council about the project. The gist of the meeting probably goes something like, “Financial meltdown. We’re doing our best. We’re ready to go. Economic crisis. We’re going to get this thing built. Credit crunch.” More realistically, Craig is trying to reassure Metro Council that matters are under control and the project will move forward as the economy improves.

Life’s not easy for a mega-project in these trying economic times. That giant spire that Santiago Calatrava designed in Chicago is just a hole in the ground and going nowhere fast, Dubai is in meltdown mode, and even the new World Trade Center is being held up every other day or so. Louisville is not unique by having a delayed mega-project. What is unique are a group of developers so dedicated to the city. And with $47 million already invested in the project so far, including $1.2 million to purchase property not owned by the city and about $14 million more to bury some power lines, the group can’t just walk away from an already substantial development.

So far, 20 permits and approvals to get started have already been acquired for the project, the Westin hotel franchise is still ready to go, and the developers are good for the money. They were even forced to bear all in a confidential letter demonstrating “Evidence of Net Worth” and their ability to personally meet the financial obligations. Greenberg reassures the Council as well that no city funds have been used so far in the project, and won’t until a complete financing package has been obtained.

And so far, the plans and design for the building haven’t changed. Greenberg’s letter to Metro Council explains that “the architectural and construction documents for Museum Plaza are to build a building and infrastructure that is the same as has been shown in renderings… over the past two years.” And the construction documents are done. Waiting. Sitting in a back office somewhere biding their time until financing rolls in. That’s them in the photo above.

Despite a barrage of concerns and worries from Metro Council, the developers are still showing no sign of breaking. While an anxious public keeps fingers crossed or pointing fingers poised, the pressure must be great for the four who have already put so much at stake. Here’s the optimism Greenberg and the rest of the development group still maintain for Museum Plaza:

“Laura Lee Brown, Steve Wilson, Steve Poe, myself and the entire Museum Plaza development team remain as committed as ever to building this important community project. It is too important not to build. Museum Plaza will not only energize and improve West Main Street, Downtown Louisville, and our entire community, but serve as a symbol of our community and state’s ability to rebound from these challenging times stronger than ever.

“Museum Plaza will be under construction within 30 days of closing our financing, building $150 million of infrastructure and having an economic impact of over $1 billion during our construction period. Over 4,500 different people will help build Museum Plaza, earning prevailing wages. Over 600 people will work on the site every day during its peak construction period. And, over 1,500 people will have permanent good jobs in the building upon its completion. Museum Plaza will quickly and forcefully stimulate Kentucky’s economy, while improving it and its image in the process.”

The "Nicole Wallace School of Spin."

The "Nicole Wallace School of Spin."

I don't know who that is but we have a graduate magnacumlade' here, right

Nicole Wallace:
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://static.crooksandliars.com/files/movieimages/2008/10/6678.dl.jpg&usg=AFQjCNHCojlMUGPD1MpAwm4rrl2IjpehmA

Nicolle Wallace, former White House communications director for President George W. Bush,

[edit] McCain-Palin Campaign
Both she and her husband were enlisted to work with Republican Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin, helping to prepare her for interviews and debates.[4] Wallace's leadership role on the campaign included naming Tucker Eskew as Palin's counselor.[5]

In response to reports of dissension within the McCain/Palin campaign in late October, 2008, Wallace gave the same statement to both Politico and CNN: "If people want to throw me under the bus, my personal belief is that the most honorable thing to do is to lie there."[6]

Palin had supposidley started to disregard instructions from the campaign and allegidly blamed Wallace and chief campaign strategist Steve Schmidt for her negative public image. Palin publicly denied the reports of dissension within the campaign and expressed support for Wallace. [7]

Seriously, Museum Plaza isn't over until the fat lady sings. why all the hatred? its like people haaaaate to see louisville succeed?

Most people on this board have probably not been alive long enough to see Louisville succeed so who knows if they would hate it?

Most people on this board have probably not been alive long enough to see Louisville succeed so who knows if they would hate it?

......Seriously?...

Success - an event that accomplishes its intended purpose

Louisville has many success stories.

There are many that have accomplished many a great thing in this city.

Louisville has a rich history.

MP has nothing to do with any of the above...but I give the investors high marks on dreaming big, real big! Next time they'll have to introduce those boring functions of economy in to the realistic world to make their dream a reality.

Most people on this board have probably not been alive long enough to see Louisville succeed so who knows if they would hate it?

Puuullleeeaaassseeee give me the "success" of Nashville. I would love to see the city spraw beyond belief and sit in traffic for most my waking hours. And, before you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I lived there for a few years. Not exactly the best city I've been in.

I have always thought it looked and sounded like a pipe dream. I wanted it to get built but I don't see how you can build something like that for anything remotely reasonable. I think it would take a corporation that just wanted a statement building to justifiy the cost of that building. I just don't think Louisville is a city that will pay the kind of premium that a building like that requires. I hope something happens with the site as it is a good location and it would be shame for it to site empty.

Seriously, Museum Plaza isn't over until the fat lady sings. why all the hatred? its like people haaaaate to see louisville succeed?

I've got a bridge over the Ohio to sell you!!

Puuullleeeaaassseeee give me the "success" of Nashville. I would love to see the city spraw beyond belief and sit in traffic for most my waking hours. And, before you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I lived there for a few years. Not exactly the best city I've been in.

You are obviously biased.

Check the corporations Nashville has landed, the growth rate, tourism, amount of buildings under construction (or recently completed), educational opportunities, and then compare that to Louisville. Its obvious that in most categories Nashville has a clear advantage, and for the most part those advantages are growing wider apart.

There is no doubt that Nashville has outperformed Louisville in many aspects. That doesn't mean it is a better place to live.

Sure it is

I hope MP does get built eventually. And at the advertised height. :yes: 703 ft.! :)

Sure it is

Are you 8 years old?

Are you 8 years old?
Give her more credit than that at least she can spell better than a lot of the people who post here, she must be at least 12!

Cashville is a she? :hm: Interesting. Did not know that. :)
It's good to have both sexes on the forum. :yes:

Cashville is a she? :hm:
I have no idea, I was just trying to see what kind of reaction I'd get!

Cashville is a girl? :uh: I get nervous around woman. Hold me.

Cashville is a girl? :uh: I get nervous around woman. Hold me.

Where's Infoman when we need him!? :lol:

Where's Infoman when we need him!? :lol:

I thought you kidnapped him. :dunno: :D

^^ I did, but he got away!! He broke free from me and kept screaming, "I'm coming, g-man430! I'm coming!!" :lol: ;)

Is it dead yet? :D I want to bury it.

Is it dead yet? :D I want to bury it.
I'm sure you want to bury anything louisville's trying to do! Greenville is in no better shape, possibly worse, so hope things start improving instead of trying to kill them. This will be a wonderful signature building for Louisville, something Greenville also needs.

Yeah, a wonderful signature building that's not built.

Yeah, a wonderful signature building that's not built.
What the H__l do you care! At least Louisville has plans for a signature building, Greenville has never had plans were talked about one! I also notice you have an Atlanta Braves avatar yet Greenville ran off their Atlanta farm club! Hardly something to be proud of.

Would you please quit being a troll about this building? Louisville certainly has a lot more to be proud of than Greenville and since I've lived both places I have some basis for my thoughts, something you don't.

What the H__l do you care! At least Louisville has plans for a signature building, Greenville has never had plans were talked about one! I also notice you have an Atlanta Braves avatar yet Greenville ran off their Atlanta farm club! Hardly something to be proud of.

Would you please quit being a troll about this building? Louisville certainly has a lot more to be proud of than Greenville and since I've lived both places I have some basis for my thoughts, something you don't.

There is a 30 story highrise planned for downtown Greenville. There have been numerous news articles on it. Greenville got a new minor league ballpark and team which is an affaliate of the Red Sox. I didn't know stating a fact about a project was considered trolling.

There is a 30 story highrise planned for downtown Greenville. There have been numerous news articles on it. Greenville got a new minor league ballpark and team which is an affaliate of the Red Sox. I didn't know stating a fact about a project was considered trolling.

Wow! Impressive! These are things Louisville did 10 to 20 years ago. Welcome to the '90s.

Louisville is bigger than Greenville. Also, that highrise I mentioned planned for downtown Greenville is on hold and may not even get built. No, i'm not scared to admit that either. Highrises don't make a city. Some people seem to forget that.

Louisville is bigger than Greenville. Also, that highrise I mentioned planned for downtown Greenville is on hold and may not even get built. No, i'm not scared to admit that either. Highrises don't make a city. Some people seem to forget that.

this may come as a shock, but i agree with you g-man.

skyscrapers dont make the city, and people seem to forget that, or never have the oppurtunity to realize that.

I read all this long thread about this project. I enjoyed the developing events, from euphory to depression, like it was a romance. I think this building has a good design. Don't know about its urban value inside Louisville, since I never visited US. The truth is that capitalism forces are moving. Crisis will reshape the world as we know it. And change will come as an hurricane. We've not seen anything yet. Extremely powerful economic shifting from west to Asia will bring extremely chaotic events, just as it happened when United States, Germany, URSS and Japan replaced old european empires. Another big world war is coming, maybe in 15-20 years. We have to replace our interest in architecture and arts with political passion for a communist revolution. Only preparing a leninist-type civil war, hanging bourgeoise capitalists and replacing this inefficient capitalistic production system with a new marxistic economic model without money, without markets and without production-means private ownership, we'll succeeed in stopping the violence and building the naturalistic gorgeous-landscaped and highrised world we dream. Workers of the world, unite!

Calm down, its just a building.

I read all this long thread about this project. I enjoyed the developing events, from euphory to depression, like it was a romance. I think this building has a good design. Don't know about its urban value inside Louisville, since I never visited US. The truth is that capitalism forces are moving. Crisis will reshape the world as we know it. And change will come as an hurricane. We've not seen anything yet. Extremely powerful economic shifting from west to Asia will bring extremely chaotic events, just as it happened when United States, Germany, URSS and Japan replaced old european empires. Another big world war is coming, maybe in 15-20 years. We have to replace our interest in architecture and arts with political passion for a communist revolution. Only preparing a leninist-type civil war, hanging bourgeoise capitalists and replacing this inefficient capitalistic production system with a new marxistic economic model without money, without markets and without production-means private ownership, we'll succeeed in stopping the violence and building the naturalistic gorgeous-landscaped and highrised world we dream. Workers of the world, unite!

Not only that, but Hulu is turning our brains to mush. So much change going on right now.

wtf? How did a thread about a building become a call to arms?

49 days till ground breaks :)...i wish we had one of those count down tickers to put in this thread.

from August 9th 2007, That's when I was in Louiville.....have things moved along since then ? I see 'On Hold' notice...but just wondered ?

from August 9th 2007, That's when I was in Louiville.....have things moved along since then ? I see 'On Hold' notice...but just wondered ?
Not much has happened. This site has been cleared, the bridge over seventh street has been removed, the electric towers have been removed and everything with the facades of the buildings facing main street have been destroyed! Other than that there's been no word or sign of construction. :ohno:

So which project do you think we'll hear good news about first? Iron Quarter, Museum Plaza, City Center -- or something else? Which do you think is the "most" dead?

So which project do you think we'll hear good news about first? Iron Quarter, Museum Plaza, City Center -- or something else? Which do you think is the "most" dead?
My guess would be Museum Plaza first (maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I really think it is going to happen) Iron Quarter second and City Center third. I actually don't think City Center will happen unless Mayor Abramson gets reelected next year.

sorry, but I don't think any of them are gonna happen, but especially MP. If anything I would go with City Center as the most probable

sorry, but I don't think any of them are gonna happen, but especially MP. If anything I would go with City Center as the most probable
If City Center is ever built it will only be because Mayor Jerry gives Cordish more of our money! He's done it before and he'll do it again!

WAT?
http://i43.tinypic.com/2yzn1gy.jpg

Legislation may help Museum Plaza

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The economic incentives and bridges bill passed Wednesday by the General Assembly may make it easier for developers of Louisville's $490 million Museum Plaza project to raise money to start construction.

House Bill 3 allows the creation of a Cabinet for Economic Development loan program that could be used to cover debt on bonds issued to pay for sidewalks, a public plaza, new streets and other public improvements near the Museum Plaza site at Seventh and Main streets.

"This is an important step forward, and we continue to work hard to get under construction as quickly as possible," said Craig Greenberg, one of the project's developers. Even if the money is raised for the public improvements, the developers would still need to secure a construction loan that would pay for most of the 62-story office, condo and retail skyscraper.

Leaders in the House and Senate said the bill, which would give bond buyers additional assurances that debt will be repaid, may help the project sell construction bonds in what continues to be a difficult credit market.

Greenberg declined to comment Wednesday on when construction may resume or the status of the project's overall financing. Museum Plaza stalled in early 2008 after preliminary construction and announced that funding was on hold due to higher borrowing costs brought on by the financial crisis.

The legislature's action concerns just one piece of the project's financing – an estimated $100 million in bonds to cover the improvements, Greenberg said. It doesn't deal with raising money for construction or a $47 million bond issue backed by Louisville Metro Government.

The $100 million in bonds would be repaid with a portion of new tax revenue generated at Museum Plaza under the state's tax-increment financing, or TIF, program.

The bill clears the way for the project's developers to establish a pool of money – using their own funds – that the state would oversee. The money would be used to pay the bond debt only if the new tax revenue falls well below projections.

Senate President David Williams, R-Burkesville, said the loan funds also would be available to the four other TIF projects in Kentucky – including Louisville's Center City project and the Nucleus redevelopment of the old Haymarket, as well as projects in Newport and Bowling Green.

The plan still has to be approved by the economic development cabinet and the board of the Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority, said House Speaker Greg Stumbo, D-Prestonsburg.

Stumbo said the legislation provides several safeguards before the state would have to cover any of the debt. Those include, for example, requiring that developers agree to pay the state back for any money it spends if the loan fund runs low.

"The chances of going through that are remarkably slim," Stumbo said.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090624/NEWS01/906240397/Legislation+may+help+Museum+Plaza

Hope?

So MP still isn't going forward?

Not at the current financial and economic markets.

It will be built, in time. Probably start construction in the third or fourth quarter of next year. Isn't that when the "market" is supposed to be turning around?

Its not feasible in any financial market.

Its not feasible in any financial market.
And why not? The new downtown arena wasn't economically feasible nor practical but Mayor Jerry has us all paying for it anyway. This building will be much better signature for Louisville than the arena and will be used a lot more. Let's get it built.

I believe, if built, the longterm payoff will be there. The many different indirect/complimenting tourism factors, such as the new iconic structure that people globally will be able to identify Louisville to, which in essence leads to possible and more over probable trademarked advertisment locally, of course, but more so, nationally and maybe internationally. In other words, more tourism directly and indirectly related to the MP being built, more than would normally be without it. Possible movie/film locations because of it being there. More spill-over jobs. And it should attract new businesses of all sizes to locate in or near it as much as possible. In all and all, if built, IMHO, I believe Louisville as a city will profit. The ones building it may have to sell this as strongly as they can to city leaders and bankers/lenders. In short, a project of this importance and scale/magnatude contributes more to a city than just just another big blip in the skyline. There are alot of intangibles here.
A little faith can and should go a long way for this city.
And in the end, this project will have paid for it'self. Justification in something or for something, sometimes takes a long time to realize. And with such a great project comes the swelling of pride that enables one to endure until the that realization.

Aren't you guys forgetting that the arena is publicly funded while the museum building is a private venture (notwithstanding the public assistance)? The developers of the museum would still have a lot of skin in the game.

As we have seen a lot lately, the government has a different benchmark as to what is "feasible" or not. Plus, their projects tend to cost more. I mean for example... who thinks that a 1000-room convention center and hotel (assuming they were truly cost-justified) couldn't be built for less than a billion dollars?

Maybe that's what Orso-nutjob meant with his/her post above about the workers' paradise building high-rises like the museum tower. Hmmmm, I really don't know what he meant.

As we have seen a lot lately, the government has a different benchmark as to what is "feasible" or not. Plus, their projects tend to cost more. I mean for example... who thinks that a 1000-room convention center and hotel (assuming they were truly cost-justified) couldn't be built for less than a billion dollars?
I'll trade you a 20,000 seat arena that cost $360 million for your hotel and convention center. At least it will be used a lot more than the arena and have a better chance of payback.

^^ Yeah, I love new state-of-the-art arenas too, but the value of a mega-room convention center hotel has alot more value, if done right. Now, if only my city of Baltimore would have done it right....

I believe, if built, the longterm payoff will be there. The many different indirect/complimenting tourism factors, such as the new iconic structure that people globally will be able to identify Louisville to, which in essence leads to possible and more over probable trademarked advertisment locally, of course, but more so, nationally and maybe internationally. In other words, more tourism directly and indirectly related to the MP being built, more than would normally be without it. Possible movie/film locations because of it being there. More spill-over jobs. And it should attract new businesses of all sizes to locate in or near it as much as possible. In all and all, if built, IMHO, I believe Louisville as a city will profit. The ones building it may have to sell this as strongly as they can to city leaders and bankers/lenders. In short, a project of this importance and scale/magnatude contributes more to a city than just just another big blip in the skyline. There are alot of intangibles here.
A little faith can and should go a long way for this city.
And in the end, this project will have paid for it'self. Justification in something or for something, sometimes takes a long time to realize. And with such a great project comes the swelling of pride that enables one to endure until the that realization.

what in the world are you attempting to communicate?

Is this the stream of conscience that swells between the browns/wilson and the apostles of the MP....
Just for get the $140 million they need from joe q taxpayer, the banks will not loan on nonperforming projects such as this.

This project is dead as designed indefinitely. With major reductions and major design modifications perhaps in 3 years.

what in the world are you attempting to communicate?

Is this the stream of conscience that swells between the browns/wilson and the apostles of the MP....
Just for get the $140 million they need from joe q taxpayer, the banks will not loan on nonperforming projects such as this.

This project is dead as designed indefinitely. With major reductions and major design modifications perhaps in 3 years.

:lol:
Just an ideal, my friend. like everything else on this site. You know, anything to pass the time.

:lol:
Just an ideal, my friend. like everything else on this site. You know, anything to pass the time.

Now that I understand.

Interesting little blurb from this weeks LEO.

Jerry's kids
Facts, rumors and political innuendo

By Stephen George
There have been grave rumblings in the mayoral race betting pool since last week, so let’s get right to it.

First and foremost, attorney Craig Greenberg is out. The Museum Plaza developer and young, bright Jewish lawyer confirmed to LEO Weekly Monday he’s forgoing plans to run in the Democratic primary because the General Assembly approved legislation that might get the city’s biggest (stalled) private project back on track.

“I’m very honored and flattered that folks were talking about me,” Greenberg says. “But after we got this legislation in Frankfort about a week and a half ago, and we are closer than ever to making Museum Plaza a reality, I decided to focus on getting that financed and under construction at this time.”

^^ Does this Stephen George guy always tell people the religion of the particular person he is writing about? Kind of peculiar. But anyway ---- Hopefully there will be a real announcement of some progress for this project before too long. We'll see.

Interesting little blurb from this weeks LEO.

nice blurb...but what does him being Jewish have to do with anything? i wonder why the author added that...

WTF is that about?!?

By the way, are you a member of the Nation of Islam Soulbrotha? Just curious to know so I can always bring it up to other SSC members if we're discussing you. "Hey did you read what Soulbrotha, the Islamic guy, yada yada yada...:lol:

WTF is that about?!?

By the way, are you a member of the Nation of Islam Soulbrotha? Just curious to know so I can always bring it up to other SSC members if we're discussing you. "Hey did you read what Soulbrotha, the Islamic guy, yada yada yada...:lol:

no i'm not in the NOI but i'm muslim.

Damn! if Museum Plaza gets underway ... there are going to be a couple of very disillusioned forumers.

We should adjust our User Titles to, "The Christian Guy" and "The Muslim Guy" respectively. That way people will see us getting along, and maybe it will inspire world peace. All we need is a Jewish person to get in on the act. Any Jews reading this should join in on our social experiment.;)

Guys, the author mentioned his religion because Jerry Abramson was a bright young Jewish lawyer before entering politics. Believe it or not, Louisville doesn't have a huge Jewish population (it's a nice size community, but nothing compared to its Christian counterparts). Is there really a reason to get this up in arms about such a comment?

Damn! if Museum Plaza gets underway ... there are going to be a couple of very disillusioned forumers.

here here I can agree with your premise and so in the mean time until such announcement is made - we all can concede the disillusioned are those that thought MP was supposed to be open by now. :nuts:


p.s. Greenburg couldn't win a one man race. Look for some on the council to run David Tandy and Hal Heiner to run.

Damn! if Museum Plaza gets underway ... there are going to be a couple of very disillusioned forumers.

That used to be me, but the more I've looked at this project, the more I like it. I think it's a good fit for Louisville. Currently DT Louisville is sort of lacking bold, striking contemporary architecture unless you consider the Humana Building, which isn't really turning any heads. Museum Plaza will turn heads and give Louisville the kind of striking landmark that a city its size deserves. MP is a bold, edgy design that deserves to get built imo.

Any updates on this project?

Sadly, not for a while. But here's some fodder to feed on in the mean time:

http://brokensidewalk.com/tag/museum-plaza/

Damn. :( This is a cool looking project too. At least in my opinion. Louisville deserves a highrise of this size along with Nashville.

Anything yet?

YET? This is D.E.A.D!

YET? This is D.E.A.D!

Right, I think some of us tried to explain this a couple of years ago in great detail - to some of this forum and I can't believe people are still expecting it to rise like a great miracle.

YET? This is D.E.A.D!

Go back to sleep, we will call you when construction starts.

Well, if it is in fact dead, they're still not letting on. I received an e-mail two weeks ago from a woman that I only assume is working at the sales center, since that is the adress she listed below her name?

Dear Eric,

Thanks for your note. I apologize for not responding sooner. We truly appreciate your interest in and support for Museum Plaza. Like so many projects across the country, our progress has been delayed by the current economic climate. Our team remains committed to making Museum Plaza a reality and continues to work diligently on finalizing the finance package...


:dunno:

Yeah, because in a normal economic climate those 150 high priced condos would be gone overnight.

This thing had the same problem as Signature Tower in Nashville ---> Too many luxury condos. Drop 95% of them and completely redesign the tower with the other aspects still included and maybe you have a chance.

I agree. There is need for perhaps a handfull of luxury condos, but as is, two legs of the tower are slated to include luxury units, with a third leg containing still higher-end condos. I think the majority of these units should drop in price, with the lower-end leg (which is below the "island") turning to appartments. If UofL's business and fine arts graduate programs are in the building, wouldn't rentable options make a great deal of sense?

Vacancy Rates Down, But Economy Holding Mega-Projects At Bay
http://brokensidewalk.com/2010/01/25/vacancy-rates-down-but-economy-holding-mega-projects-at-bay/

...The Commercial Kentucky report called out one project by name: Museum Plaza. Can Louisville’s most dramatic mega-project – also shovel ready – find some good news in the low vacancy rates? Craig Greenberg, developer along with Laura Lee Brown, Steve Wilson, and Steve Poe, says Downtown is definitely ready for more high quality office space to grow existing business and bring in new companies, but the same challenges remain for Museum Plaza as other projects.

Greenberg says the development team continues to work every day on securing financing and tenants to get the 63-story structure back under construction, but admits it’s a challenging job on the current economy. He says while there might not be any exciting news to report today, the team still plans to move forward with Museum Plaza and it’s 300,000 square feet of office space....

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cbd_office_space_01.jpg

Vacancy Rates Down, But Economy Holding Mega-Projects At Bay
http://brokensidewalk.com/2010/01/25/vacancy-rates-down-but-economy-holding-mega-projects-at-bay/

...The Commercial Kentucky report called out one project by name: Museum Plaza. Can Louisville’s most dramatic mega-project – also shovel ready – find some good news in the low vacancy rates? Craig Greenberg, developer along with Laura Lee Brown, Steve Wilson, and Steve Poe, says Downtown is definitely ready for more high quality office space to grow existing business and bring in new companies, but the same challenges remain for Museum Plaza as other projects.

Greenberg says the development team continues to work every day on securing financing and tenants to get the 63-story structure back under construction, but admits it’s a challenging job on the current economy. He says while there might not be any exciting news to report today, the team still plans to move forward with Museum Plaza and it’s 300,000 square feet of office space....

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cbd_office_space_01.jpg


Didn't I post 2 years ago the project would be reduced to a mid rise office complex eventually. Wonder where Greenburg got that idea.....shhhh.


It's press folks - it is nothing but damage control in my opinion. The site has been for sale for a couple of years. They are feeding the debt on a hole in the ground - that is NOT what real estate investment is about.

Go back to sleep, we will call you when construction starts.

When will that be? :D

When will that be? :D
Whenever you're not looking.

Whenever you're not looking.

Guess that means never then. Oh well.

Guess that means never then. Oh well.

zing.

Put down the computer, go outside, and come see us after you experience something other than Second Life.

hmm...

http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2010/06/21/daily44.html

Beat me to it! haha
'Hmm" indeed.

I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. But I don't think they would be calling a presser to announce the project was dead. Even if the city just gets the Westin and the UofL school it is better than nothing.

The long stalled Museum Plaza skyscraper project would replace about 90 condominiums with a second hotel, one of the complex's developers said in an interview Thursday.

Preliminary work on the 62-story project near Seventh and Main streets stopped in early 2008 amid financing difficulties.

Attorney Craig Greenberg, a partner in the development, said adding a second hotel may help make the project easier to finance, boost the city's hotel stock and generate additional tax revenue for local and state governments.

Asked when developers expect to secure funding and resume construction for the project, Greenberg said, "We hope to have some very good news about the progress on the financing, as well as the timing to get Museum Plaza back under construction" on Friday.

He declined to elaborate or say whether the projected cost of the project has changed since earlier estimates put the complex at $490 million. The original plan called for a construction loan and public money set aside to pay for improving streets, sidewalks and other public infrastructure.

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear and Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson are among those scheduled to appear at a Friday news conference at the project site. The offices of Beshear and Abramson declined to comment.

Greenberg is part of a development team that also includes Brown-Forman heiress and arts patron Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson, and developer Steve Poe.

Despite the delays, Greenberg said the developers remain committed to completing Museum Plaza.

The second hotel, with 190 rooms, would be a brand that offers "no room service, fewer amenities, but still a very nice hotel," Greenberg said. While developers haven't settled on an operator, Greenberg said they're in discussions with several national brands.

A 265-room Westin is also planned for Museum Plaza, and Greenberg estimated that 400 employees would work at the two hotels.

Elsewhere downtown, architect and developer Bill Weyland leads a group planning a 105 hotel west of the Henry Clay building and developer Todd Blue has proposed building twin hotels totaling 280 rooms at the Iron Quarter property on Main Street.

Overall, at least 840 additional rooms are planned for downtown in coming years.

"It's surprising that people are gambling on Louisville, but I guess if it's private equity and they can make it work on paper -- I salute them," said Jon McFarland, general manager of the Seelbach Hilton. "The more vibrant you can make our downtown, the better off we all are."

McFarland, the first vice president of the Greater Louisville Hotel & Lodging Association, noted that the overall occupancy rate for Louisville lodging was 53 percent through May, and 56 percent downtown, according to industry estimates.

Having additional rooms raises the prospect of supply exceeding demand, McFarland said.

"The strong hotels survive, for sure," McFarland said.

Michael Howerton, the lodging association's president and general manager of the downtown Marriott, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

Louisville has about 3,820 downtown hotel rooms, according to the Louisville Convention and Visitors Bureau.

Jim Wood, the bureau's president, said he believes the hotel market can withstand a second Museum Plaza hotel and noted the 21c Museum Hotel and the renovated Galt House as boosting the quality of downtown lodging in recent years.

"As the new business comes in so grows the market. So it will help us attract more conventions. It will help us attract bigger conventions. It will also help us attract more tourists to the city," Wood said.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100624/BUSINESS/6240360/Museum+Plaza+plans+to+drop+some+condos++add+a+second+hotel

Very interesting... I certainly worry about an over-stock. However, the number of hotel rooms available has certainly been a factor in certain events and conventions not coming to Louisville. If the building's design remains in-tact, these will be very high-profile hotels that will get a lot of press and interest when visitors go looking for a place to stay. As discussed on here already, the ammount of condos originally planned was unrealistic, even before the housing crash. It's encouraging to see that they are adjusting plans to make the project still feasible within the current downtown market.

I'll be interested to know if we find anything else out come tomorrow, but is anyone else surprised to hear this news? Quite frankly, I'm surprised by the shear resilience of this project. I really thought we were just going to get more fluff and fodder about financing difficulties and that they are still riding out the bad economy. I think it's worth something that Beshear is coming in for the announcement, but I really am fearful of getting my hopes up.

I don't think Beshear would be coming unless something realistic was happening -- too politically risky to be associated with such a high profile project that has failed on multiple occasions. If he is coming, I think we have to expect some kind of tangible progress by election time.

Hoping this comes through in the original form. That would be a HUGE boost for Louisville.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hopefully the plans didn't get scaled down. If it is hopefully it's only by square footage and not by height. I'm hoping they made some real progress in securing financing, it would be great to hear they actually have financing, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

As far as the hotel market, I think the worst hit would be the older suburban hotels, but if Louisville gets more conventions and tourist, which is within the realm of possibility, than everything should pan out.

^^
Well, talking in terms of things panning out, the arena is already bringing in large sporting and entertainment events that have not previously been in downtown. And Freedom Hall having more dates will bring more opportunity for very large trade shows that will put visitors in hotels around the city, so actually... more rooms make a lot of sense when considering the shuffle of things down the road. But honestly, I still think there is a serious puzzle piece still missing, and that is Center City... When talking more hotels and events downtown without Center City being a guranteed, it all becomes a far greater gamble because Louisville's downtown still lacks the amenities that numerous other cities can provide within their downtown.

So for $500 million you are getting 455 hotel rooms, a few hundred square feet of office space, some condos, and a museum?

This thing still makes zero economic sense.

So for $500 million you are getting 455 hotel rooms, a few hundred square feet of office space, some condos, and a museum?

This thing still makes zero economic sense.

Took you a while. I was wondering where you were.

Two hotels, still roughly 99 condos, a few hundred thousand square feet of office space, an art museum, two graduate programs, art studios, 40-50K square feet of retail, a large park, and an 800-space underground garage all in addition to removal and off-site reconstruction of electrical utilities and a re-routing of 7th street...

Oh yeah, and an iconic landmark, love it or hate it. It's being built on the site that it is on in order to encourage dense, urban development. The developers knew it was a beast of a project for such a small site and intended all along to solve the problem through creativity in design and construction. Worth $500mil? I dunno, lets wait and find out together, shall we?

So for $500 million you are getting 455 hotel rooms, a few hundred square feet of office space, some condos, and a museum?

This thing still makes zero economic sense.

So. It's private money. Plus, the square footage of office space is around 300,000, which is half of the Aegon.

here is a video from whas11. apparently the financing is "back on track." it didnt say anything about the design being scaled back.

construction should resume by fall
http://www.whas11.com/video?id=97101399&sec=553467

Well kiss my grits. This fall sounds pretty good to me. Anyone think its an announcement of federal stimulus money?

yeah. it was announced at the past council meeting when the final metro budget was approved

Doubt it, stimulus money was for actual public project such as roads, schools, etc.

still roughly 99 condos,

That is still way too many condos, has the condo tower that was complete 5 years ago sold out yet?

Without the dumb design you could get everything proposed with more height and save $100 million or more. That would lower the price needed for the condos and make the office space more affordable.

Or you could cut the condos that will never sell and get a similar height building with less square footage and save even more money.

Doubt it, stimulus money was for actual public project such as roads, schools, etc.

supposedly some HUD funds and fed funds will be used

That is still way too many condos, has the condo tower that was complete 5 years ago sold out yet?

Without the dumb design you could get everything proposed with more height and save $100 million or more. That would lower the price needed for the condos and make the office space more affordable.

Or you could cut the condos that will never sell and get a similar height building with less square footage and save even more money.


If you think it's stupid, I would refrain from investing. Otherwise, enjoy watching an iconic structure rise

lol, this thread is over 4 years old and you think it is going to rise now?

Still not going to happen, an announcement to take away some condos and add a 190 room hotel really doesnt change things that much. You are talking 99 condos in a market that cant support it, and more hotel rooms in a market that already has too many.

Since a few of you love it when I Google:

Waterfront Park Place construction started in 2000, and the building topped out in 2003.

89 condo units total, and 15 had to go up for auction recently because they had yet to be sold.

But these 99 new units (which will probably be more expensive) are viable?

yeah, i would say this announcement tomorrow means its going up...

supposedly some HUD funds and fed funds will be used

True, but that's not the same thing as the stimulus package.

lol, this thread is over 4 years old and you think it is going to rise now?

Still not going to happen, an announcement to take away some condos and add a 190 room hotel really doesnt change things that much. You are talking 99 condos in a market that cant support it, and more hotel rooms in a market that already has too many.

Someone sounds especially bitter today....

The Google-monster is back, letting us know how our city is doing from the safety of his mom's basement.

Can the fed. money be involved because of the U of L space and the museum? Perhaps the fed. money is just financing that part of the project?

A little disappointed in today's announcement. It is great that they are trying to be creative in finding financing. But to come out and announce that they are applying for a loan which they may or may not receive seems to be putting the cart before the horse...

I know you all are still hoping that this will happen in its original plan, but IT WILL NOT! Louisville does not have the demand for high-end condos and the addition of two additional hotels is the last thing DT Louisville needs. There are no sport teams, your convention center is small and you already have a 50% vacancy rate for hotels in your downtown. It makes no financial sense.

Since nobody wanted to provide the exact details ------------> The developers are applying for a $100 million HUD loan. :rofl:

Great move, instead of scaling back and making the project viable just go after federal money.

cwilson I agree with you in regards to the condos, I still don't think it is a wise decision to build any additional units in downtown at this time. The hotels are a different story. I think having a brand like the Westin in downtown is important for conventions and travelers alike. People like to stay in familiar places. Also a city has to build additional rooms to continue to attract bigger or additional conventions and events. And I believe the total room count is something like 350 for both hotels.

Since nobody wanted to provide the exact details ------------> The developers are applying for a $100 million HUD loan. :rofl:

Great move, instead of scaling back and making the project viable just go after federal money.

While I don't completely disagree with you that it is not exactly the kind of news we were hoping for, some facts need to be flushed out.

First, it is a loan. Not a grant. Not a gift. But to be repaid. The state would have to guarantee the loan to HUD. In order to do so, the state has received a personal guarantee from the developers (who have more than enough assets to make this guarantee). Basically, in a time when speculative lending is nearly non-existent, they are hoping that a $100 million jumpstart will get the private financing on track.

just got this email
-----

Steve Wilson's Remarks at Today's Press Conference Announcing HUD Loan Application

Louisville, Ky, June 25, 2010 -
http://museumplaza.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=bdb2aff888f07d0b06547fb22&id=e6f1f5948c&e=9a79e2047e

Thank you for joining us this morning.

It's been six years since we hosted the first community forum on our dream for downtown. And three years since we invited you to our groundbreaking event. Tragically, very shortly thereafter, the bottom fell out of the financial markets and financing became unavailable.

But, while we may have been publicly quiet... with the support of Governor Beshear, Mayor Abramson, Representative Larry Clark, Senator David Williams and many others, we never gave up hope - working quietly every single day to get this important project financed and under construction.

Today, our community is one step closer to achieving this goal.

None of the elected officials with us this morning and no one on the development team ever gave up on this project for the Commonwealth.

Now is the time to build Museum Plaza!

Our construction will create 4,500 prevailing wage construction jobs. Additionally, more than 2,300 people will work in Museum Plaza every day when it is completed. Museum Plaza will provide an immediate and strong economic stimulus across Kentucky.

Clearly, now is the time to build Museum Plaza!

The good news is that because of the downturn in the markets, this same building is projected to cost substantially less to build today than two years ago. And, since we have already moved the 10-story LG&E electrical tower - that stood right there - and the underground cables, the construction period will be several months shorter.

Indeed, now is the time to build Museum Plaza!

It is a well-known fact that Louisville's Downtown Class A office space is over 95% occupied. We need new, high quality office space. Museum Plaza will fill this need.

And, the Louisville Convention & Visitors Bureau forecasts a need for new, high-quality hotel rooms. Therefore, without changing the design of the exterior of the building, we have removed 90 residential condominiums from the project's original plan and will replace them with a second, limited service hotel to complement the full-service Westin. This change will generate more taxes for the City and State and will assist in the project's financing.

Now is the time to build Museum Plaza!

Thanks to the innovation and leadership of Governor Beshear, we have the opportunity to borrow money from the federal government to jump-start a local project and our local economy.

As the Governor mentioned, Laura Lee and I have provided significant safeguards to the state in connection with this loan, without which the project would remain delayed.

With this federal loan, we can complete our financing... get Museum Plaza back under construction... and create thousands of new jobs for Kentuckians.

I want to express our sincere gratitude to all of the state legislators - especially Larry Clark and David Williams - who enacted legislation which will help Museum Plaza get built, but also will allow many other important economic development projects across the state to become realities.

Thank you Mayor Abramson and thank you to all the members of the Metro Council who have been tireless advocates of Museum Plaza for many years - without their early support, this project could never be built.

Senator McConnell and Congressman Yarmuth have also supported this project from the very beginning and are helping us pursue the federal loan we're announcing today.

We are very grateful to many others who have done their part to get us here today.

The Governor's Chief of Staff, Adam Edelen, and Economic Development Secretary Larry Hayes, are two of those people who have strongly supported this project.

And, a special thank you to our partners, Steve Poe... who never doubted even during the darkest of days, and Craig Greenberg... who is the most creative businessman I've ever met. It was Craig who convinced us all that this program could work for Museum Plaza, even though it had never been used
in Kentucky before.

You know... it has been said, "A great building must begin with a deep foundation." There are two people here today, who are the pillars of our foundation... Governor Beshear and my wife, Laura Lee Brown... Wilson.

I've known eleven Governors and worked closely with three. Governor Beshear has served during a more difficult economy than all the others and has been courageous in doing so.

Kentucky's favorite son, Abraham Lincoln, said, "Determine that the thing can... and shall be done... and then we shall find the way."

Like Lincoln, Governor Beshear's willingness to grasp the enormous possibilities of this project and help us shape our strategy and direction with determination is evidence of his vision and leadership.

And my wife, Laura Lee. She is just as courageous as the Governor and although she would never run for public office, she is also a public servant, working quietly and at all hours of the day and night. She has taken great personal risk for our community.

For all of us, Laura Lee, thank you.

Good news! I think this plan will work.

I know you all are still hoping that this will happen in its original plan, but IT WILL NOT! Louisville does not have the demand for high-end condos and the addition of two additional hotels is the last thing DT Louisville needs. There are no sport teams, your convention center is small and you already have a 50% vacancy rate for hotels in your downtown. It makes no financial sense.

While I agree with you on the demand for high-end condos at the moment, but let me ask you this, 20 years ago how many people thought there would be demand for a mall in downtown Indianapolis, how many people thought it would ever land the Super Bowl? The fact is that the Indianapolis of today is 20-30 years in the making. It doesn't get the name "Naptown" from nowhere, years ago a few visionaries were willing to take a risk and it has paid off big time making Indy one of the few bright spots in the midwest.

Now Louisville is behind it's neighbors, like Mark Twain said everything happens 20 years later in Kentucky, but I for one am glad to see people have the same faith in the city that I do (the exception being the have the funds to do something about it). No body takes on a project like this without a analysis of the risk and reward. While it may be speculative, evidently whatever they calculated is worth them taking on the risk.

Now there are those even in Louisville who say this will never work, it will never be done. I'm just glad we have people who have the guts to try.

I keep forgetting to ask Cashville about Signature Tower in Nashville. It was originally announced about the same time as this project it didn't even have a post since April 2006! Not only are they not building it but nobody is even interested in it.

Maybe you should look at the Signature Tower thread for my opinions of it, because it is the same as my opinions of Museum Plaza. Unlike most people on the board I have the ability to realize when something is out of scale and has no business being built.

I was assuming the 150 room hotel would replace the 150 lower-priced lofts, but the fact that they keep mentioning that they removed 90 high end condos means its safe to say the lofts stay and the over-priced condos are out. Which is good news. I am still skeptical about all these new hotel rooms, but I have to say that if you only build for today's demand, then Louisville's growth will continue to creep. I think enough major projects are underway that call for the city to build with the future in mind.

$130 million in tax incremental financing - tax dollars

$100 million in HUD package - tax dollars - will require % of low income housing

Favors from frankfort - House Bill 549

countless redesign of uses/blends

Project has gone from $330Million to $460Million

Construction seized due to foundation problems within the historic district

Closed vehicular/ped access to the riverfront for years

All for the Browns to force a showcase for art?

p.s. - to the earlier post about the developers having a net worth to guarantee recourse for default on the public financing? Don't be so sure.

This suck's! I wanted this to be built because its so different looking and would have gone against The grain!OOOOh well!

I wonder how long the approval process takes to go through...

Public hearing Wednesday on HUD loan for Museum Plaza
The Courier-Journal • July 5, 2010

The public hearing on the state's application for a U.S. Housing and Urban Development loan to help pay for the Museum Plaza project will be held Wednesday in Frankfort.

The hearing will start at 9 a.m. at the Department for Local Government, 1024 Capital Center Drive, Suite 340.

Gov. Steve Beshear announced June 25 that the state would apply for a $100 million loan as part of HUD's Section 108 loan guarantee program, which typically is used to revitalize blighted neighborhoods and create jobs for low- and moderate-income residents.

Museum Plaza developers still would need to secure a $140.5 million construction loan before resuming work on the $465 million complex near Seventh and Main streets. The 62-story skyscraper would include two hotels, condominiums, office space, an art museum and space for the University of Louisville's fine arts and business school programs.

The Department for Local Government plans to formally submit the loan application after Wednesday's hearing and after receiving formal comments.

I wonder how long the approval process takes to go through...

Public hearing Wednesday on HUD loan for Museum Plaza
The Courier-Journal • July 5, 2010

The public hearing on the state's application for a U.S. Housing and Urban Development loan to help pay for the Museum Plaza project will be held Wednesday in Frankfort.

The hearing will start at 9 a.m. at the Department for Local Government, 1024 Capital Center Drive, Suite 340.

Gov. Steve Beshear announced June 25 that the state would apply for a $100 million loan as part of HUD's Section 108 loan guarantee program, which typically is used to revitalize blighted neighborhoods and create jobs for low- and moderate-income residents.

Museum Plaza developers still would need to secure a $140.5 million construction loan before resuming work on the $465 million complex near Seventh and Main streets. The 62-story skyscraper would include two hotels, condominiums, office space, an art museum and space for the University of Louisville's fine arts and business school programs.

The Department for Local Government plans to formally submit the loan application after Wednesday's hearing and after receiving formal comments.


Wouldn't worry about the approval process - must keep your eye on the ball - the $140 million conventional piece. If they secure that the project is a go - if not then all other subsidies are irrevelent.

Nothing new really... but a fairly interesting article.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/12/architecture-eco-buildings-technology-future-design-joshua-ramus.html

A positive sign... I guess

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101104/BUSINESS/311040033/Museum+Plaza+gets+conditional+OK+for+$100+million+loan+guarantee

---
HUD Secretary Praises Museum Plaza Financing Plan
Dalton Main May 23, 2011
US Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan says he supports the efforts to use a HUD-approved loan to finance construction of the Museum Plaza project.
---
More on this at:
http://www.wfpl.org/2011/05/23/hud-secretary-praises-museum-plaza-financing-plan/

^^

That's really good news. A lot of stalled developments in NYC have been revived recently due to HUD gants and subsidies. Hopefully that will be enough to secure financing and get this puppy underway. :cheers:

Interesting article on louisville.com. The mayor seems to still belive in the project.

http://www.louisville.com/content/mayor-fischer-says-museum-plaza-isnt-dead-news

The official announcement was made this morning that the project is dead! Developer declares Museum Plaza cancelled! (http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Museum-Plaza-will-not-be-built-developers-say-126500903.html)

Sad but true:

Architect's Newspaper (http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/21088)


Museum Plaza Developers Scrap Plans for Tower

Midwest | Monday, August 1, 2011 | Branden Klayko.

The first line of a press statement sent out by developers of the REX-designed Museum Plaza tower in Louisville, Kentucky put it bluntly: “Museum Plaza will not be built.” The 62-story hyper-rational tower—part kunsthalle museum, part residential and commercial hub, part art school—was hoped to signal the rejuvenation of the city’s urban core, but like so many iconic buildings proposed in the days leading up to the great recession, the vision succumbed to the realities of the financial markets.

Original plans set forth in early 2006 called for a modern art museum on the 23rd floor, accessed by a diagonal funicular, to form the hub between hotel, residential, and office space. A massive park atop a parking garage, originally designed by West 8 Landscape Architects and then turned over to artist Ned Kahn formed the plaza.

Construction actually began in 2008 but halted abruptly as foundation work caused dangerous vibrations in surrounding 1850s era cast-iron buildings. While plans were reworked, financing fell through and the project has languished ever since, remaining little more than a few dozen capped piles at the bottom of a large pit. The site, located along the Ohio River between an interstate highway and a flood wall, complicated construction and was described by Joshua Prince-Ramus, principal at REX, as a “bath tub.”

Last year, the project team applied for a $100 million federal loan from the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Section 108 program, but the team formally withdrew its request this morning.

Developers Craig Greenberg, Laura Lee Brown, Steve Wilson, and Steve Poe remained optimistic that the project could ride out the recession, but in a statement and letter to the Mayor of Louisville and Governor of Kentucky this morning, the team put forth a more sober outlook:

“Through this process we have endured four years of the worst recession of our lifetime and the most challenging lending market ever. There are no signs of improvement in the near future… we painfully decided that this project could not be built in this economy.”

The development team is leaving Museum Plaza behind, and is now shifting its attention to a group of five mid-19th century former whiskey warehouses that they saved from demolition.

---

:badnews:


I was looking forward to this one.

Its interesting to go back to the beginning of this thread and read some of the things that were written about this tower.

Here's one from DaVilleisgr8 on Feb. 14, 2006: "The $75 million figure for the arena would be from the state. The $75 million figure for the tower would be from the city or state. However, there is more of a chance of this building being built in my lifetime than an arena."

Man that sucks,RIP MP!