http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/894/museumplazalouisvilledb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3292/museumplazalouisville2vj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/NEWS01/602090386/1008

Wow, thats a ballsy architect. A striking contrast to some of the buildings that have been proposed here in Raleigh.

But overall, I kinda like the design, even if it is a little lego-ish. There's definitely nothing like it that I've seen, congrats Lousiville!

omg. it was compared to the Eiffel Tower. thee Gherkin, and the Sydney Opera House.

its a nice design. i just cant see it being compared to those buildings.

61 Stories
703 feet tall
$380 million total cost
85 luxury condos, starting at $400,000
150 lofts, costing $275,000 or less
300 hotel rooms
300,000 square feet of office space
1.2 million square feet total space
1,100 underground parking spots
10,500 people a day projected to use Museum Plaza
561 full-time employees needed for construction
Construction starts in 2007
Construction completed in 2010

"This will be a 24/7 environment," he said. "Part of the goal of this project is to give the revitalization effort downtown and on West Main a big boost."

^ i'm not sure how that is going to be done since the retail and museum component of the project are located 22 floors above the street?

Wow, I like it. This will definitly thrust Louisville's visability up a notch. Congratulations, I think any city would be proud to have a proposal like this. We'll definitly have to keep an eye on this project as it could be one of the more exciting projects going up in the South.

Weird looking.

Amazing. It's original, and 'oddball' without being too 'out there' so it might work. How will it fit in though?

lets hope they don't build this. it will not fit in, it will change the skyline for the worse. maybe a long time down the road it may, if other projecs get built.

I am not a big fan of such design, but this is still a major investment, so congratulations to Louisville :okay: Where is it going to be built relative to the rest of the towers? Anyone cares to create a rendering of the [new] skyline for us?

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20060209&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=602090386&Ref=AR&Profile=1008&MaxW=500&title=1

It was only compared to the Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, Gugenheim Bilboa, etc. it terms of contrasting with the existing landscape. It is by no means as "important". This project, however, should fit Louisville well. The Humana Building was a cut of the same mold. Most people thought a new box would be better. However, it put Louisville on the map in the 80's. This building should be the same. It isn't the same old shiny building with a spire to give it height that doesn't really exist. This is a major development. All the financing is in place. The developers are from a billionaire family. Plus, who has ever heard of an "island in the sky". I bet you are going to want to check it out.

^ I don't think I would compare this thing to Humana at all. The two are seperate beast either way you look at it. Humana looks like a building should look. This looks like a preliminary proposal for the WTC site in NYC. Congrats nonetheless.

It may be an ultra-modern design,but, It is still very boxy which takes away from "being ultra modern"

^ I don't think I would compare this thing to Humana at all. The two are seperate beast either way you look at it. Humana looks like a building should look. This looks like a preliminary proposal for the WTC site in NYC. Congrats nonetheless.


LMAO! I agree, a preliminary WTC submission

Ah, but Lexy, you are forgetting that at the time, the Humana Building was anything but what a building was supposed to look like.

I think the whole point of OMA is for this kind of dialogue to take place. This is art. The whole premise of the structure is to house art, the art community, etc. Art is as subjective as it gets. Ergo, this will challenge everyone.

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20060208&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=208008&Ref=PH&Item=2&MaxW=455

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20060208&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=208008&Ref=PH&Item=3&MaxW=455

Obviously, with a design like this, the different angles you take on the skyline, the building will fit differently. However, this is the location. I think the skyline will look amazing if you moved this view to the right 1,000 feet.

I was in high school when Humana was built, and I remember when it was announced it created a huge uproar. So many people said it look anything but what a building was supposed to look like. Some people called it a giant cash register, others a pink mausoleum, etc. etc. I have a book that was published that compared the five final designs for the Humana Building (there was an architectural competition to determine the winning architect), and the Graves design was the smallest in stature of the five but the most unusual of all of them.

It's interesting how the passage of time changes our perception of what a building should look like.

I do think it's neat that the Browns are carrying on the tradition in Louisville of wealthy arts patrons going to such lengths to create not just functional architecture, but sculptural architecture that creates a public debate.

That sucks. Not because of the general shape - monumentally, it's fine. But in terms of relating to people and the street - it is crap.

In that rendering with skyline above, it evokes a sort of Detroit look.

In that rendering with skyline above, it evokes a sort of Detroit look.


Hmmmm, good point.


I reserve my full judgement till I see streetscpe renderings. As it stands now, the thing is far from pedestrian friendly.

Defintely a unique building, I guess I like the rendering, but I will have to get used to it before I make my final judgement, definately a great project for Louisville though.

Soulbrotha asked me to post a larger version of an image above. What can I say? Wow!!!

http://www.museumplaza.net/images/skyline-large.jpg

I am not familiar with the existing landscape - on the street-level, at least - but I wonder if this project would attract more high-rises around that area. In that case, it may look/fit well, plus the chances of future developments "fixing" the street-level experience may increase. From the rendering it looks like it will be close to the river, therefore future developments cannot sit across the side facing the water, but I do not see that as a problem. I know that many people spend too much time worrying about the street-level activity, but keep in mind that some buildings will serve as elements that distinguish a city's skyline from others, while some buildings will contribute more in creating pedestrian activity. It is a very strange looking design, I must admit :)

Wow, that's bold! I'm happy Lexington is getting such a high profile project. It will forever change the national skyline shots and will thrust Lexington forward a bit, IMO.

There is indeed something very "Detroit" about the skyline with the new buiding in it. I dunno, there is also something about it that makes me see that building being built in the 70's as well.

Congrats Lexington, you deserve it.

i give it 3 1/2 Dangs!

Ouch... i find it ugly. But, that's what makes it bold... some people will like it and some people will hate it. I'm happy for Louisville though. Great to see.

In that rendering with skyline above, it evokes a sort of Detroit look.

I was thinking the same thing.

That is.... one weird building. But even if it's somewhat the "pariah" for being so far from the rest of the skyline and having such a quirky look, it should make quite an impact on Louisville. Cool.

Hmmm.... I'll keep my opinion to myself until it brews a little longer. It didn't give me a good first impression, but then I couldn't stand the Bellsouth Tower in Nashville until it grew on me a little.

Interesting video from the museum plaza website.

http://www.museumplaza.net/video_wmv.html

Looking at the skyline with the tower makes me...um...not like it at all. It is too isolated...way too isolated. Hmmm. I just don't know. I think it is great Louisville is getting a new tower, but like with a few proposals here in Indy, I will believe it when there is a crane at the site.

So this is a definite 100% tower? Very artistic, I must say.

looks similar to the wtc proposal
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20021218/150wtc_7.jpg

i like the eye catching the design,the towers themselves need work,and some of the figures being provided look kinda suspcious,i dont know if i see this project coming to fruition but it would be an architectural eye catcher.

Is there any surprise cwilson doesn't like it? No, it's on the wrong side of the river for him.

Yes, this is about as sure of a project as it gets. The developers have already put years into this. Plus, they have more money than they know what to do with. The fact that it is mixed use means it doesn't flood the market with any one element. And, let's not forget that a major portion of it is an art museum and public space...an "island in the sky" 22 stories up. The building is only 2 blocks away from the Humana Building (in the straight on shot). If you moved a few feet to the right, the PNC Tower would move into the gap, and you would never know any different.

pretty cool design, i like!

Looking at the skyline with the tower makes me...um...not like it at all. It is too isolated...way too isolated. Hmmm. I just don't know. I think it is great Louisville is getting a new tower, but like with a few proposals here in Indy, I will believe it when there is a crane at the site.

Actually, its not isolated at all. Its connected to the rest of downtown by West Main Street, which is the second largest collection of cast-iron buildings in the world, behind Soho in NYC.

Definately interesting. When does construction break ground?

It's scheduled to start in 2007 and wrap up in 2010.

Fugly.

Soulbrotha asked me to post a larger version of an image above. What can I say? Wow!!!
http://www.museumplaza.net/images/skyline-large.jpg
I agree. That is a fantastic design. I really hope that/those tower(s) go(es) up.

As much as I admire the architects vision, IMHO it will never be built. Even Dubai wouldnt build something that forward...

Sure josh.

Wow, that's bold! I'm happy Lexington is getting such a high profile project. It will forever change the national skyline shots and will thrust Lexington forward a bit, IMO.

There is indeed something very "Detroit" about the skyline with the new buiding in it. I dunno, there is also something about it that makes me see that building being built in the 70's as well.

Congrats Lexington, you deserve it.

You mean "Louisville." :okay:

The design is definitely "different," but I'm not too fond of the gap it will create in the skyline, but some towers have the tendency to do that. At least it will be located downtown. Good for Louisville.

WOW!!! LOVE IT.... I THINK ITS BOLD, OUT OF PLACE, and EVERYTHING in BETWEEN WHICH MAKES IT THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO THE SKYLINE IN A GOOD WHILE...and A new TALLEST WOW!!!! AND THE DESIGN SHOULD HAVE RAVE REVIEWS AROUND THE US IF NOT THE WORLD............

Its good to have high profile, new tallest tower for Louisville, but I personally think it's ugly.

Wow! I hope it gets built. I really like the design, very bold and will do nothing but improve the cities image. I have a feeling there will definitely be some nay sayers but if it gets built I think it will really grow on those who do not like it at first. A real skyscraper!

I must say I will not believe it until I see the cranes start moving the dirt. From the sounds of the article it sounds like financing is there. Hopefully politics do not hold the project back which happen too often in Louisville like the areana and bridges.

^^
Whats not going to hold this back is that Kentucky government has so little to do with it. And with a family like the Browns pushing this along, its going to be a major challenge for the nay sayers to stop it rather than get it up.

My personal opinion?

Honestly, I don't like the design, but I was expecting this, and my dislike and its complete out of the box shot is what makes it so deliciously awesome!

Would Atlanta have ever even considered this?
Charlotte?
Nashville?

Its a complete breakaway from what's happening in the rest of the south. I'm so excited about that. Louisville is no cut and paste sunbelter.

The neat thing about this concept is the way it relates to the street..Main Street. That funky diagonal thingy is an elevator or people-mover of some sort, and will empty onto a small plaza facing Main Street....which is this 19th century cast iron storefront district, with three other museums on it...this is the urban space.

So walking down Main one will see this huge buidling hovering overhead, but actually behind the mid-to-low rise Main Street facades, and then a narrow plaza opens up to this tube that will whisk one up into the sky, to the 20th level gallery/public space.

The actuall ground floor is behind the floodwall which seperates Main from the river, and is in what is now a more auto-"engineered" space...due to flood controls and the riverfron expressway and pre-existing parking garages, and the floodwall itself.

Tall and super bold, but ugly. Kinda looks thrown together.

It is definitely a building that will inspire conversation.

Sorry, I don't like it either. As nice as Louisville is, it looks weird, and is poorly located. It's just not an attractive building...it seems to attempt TOO hard to make a statement. I love the idea of the project in Louisville, but, here's hoping there is an outcry in Louisville and the developers are forced to go back to the drawing board.

You have issues with this?
THEN WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.museumplaza.net/video_wmv.html

IDC what ANYBODY says...this is a RISK and WE Arent AFRAID TO TAKE IT.....I ABSOLUTELY CANT WAIT FOR 2009-2010 for this to be complete.......!

Everyone needs to see this thing from different angles which i know would chage alot of minds about the building...bc the front of the skyline absolutely does no justice to the skyline to begin with.

Wow, that's awesome. But like many others, I'm not a huge fan of the design. It's unique but boxy, and I don't like the weird support strut that sticks out diagonally. I'm not a fan of the "show the infrastructure" building types.

But I like the concept of the building- museum and mixed use. Interesting and excellent project. And who cares if its far away from the rest of the skyline- maybe that gap will inspire new things.

"maybe that gap will inspire new things"

EXACTLY....!!!!

Mies van der Rohe would be proud.

ugh. it kinda works...maybe if there's a few 20 stories surrounding it.

i like the design, didn't think it would fit in the skyline, but, well...it does.

-

it's hideous....it looks like an oil rig on land....sorry Louisville forumers...this is nothing against your fine city but they can come up with something better than this.Louisville deserves better IMO.

:applause:

I love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very distinctive looking!!! This development will certainly set Louisville’s skyline apart from any other city. When people see it, they’ll say, “That’s Louisville”. This is a great day for the city.

This is Mies.

This is Mies on drugs. ;)

No offense, but in my opinion, this would be one of the ugliest buildings in the US.

As much as I admire the architects vision, IMHO it will never be built. Even Dubai wouldnt build something that forward...

Thats the best part about it, there's nothing else like it in the would that I know of, Louisville will have something that will stand out.

You have issues with this?
THEN WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.museumplaza.net/video_wmv.html
The video is really good. Perhaps people who don't like the design should take a look at it. It may change their minds. I thought the video provided some awesome views you don't necessiarly get from the still images. It looks a bit differnt. But then again, I liked it the moment I saw the first pictures.

I think the building is already beginning its purpose, I have never seen this much discussion about Louisville on this forum since I joined a year and a half ago. Not everybody will like it, but there wouldn't be this much talk if it was simply just a tall building.

The video is really good. Perhaps people who don't like the design should take a look at it. It may change their minds. I thought the video provided some awesome views you don't necessiarly get from the still images. It looks a bit differnt. But then again, I liked it the moment I saw the first pictures.

Exactly, and I certainly appreciate your opinion and your forward thinking. I absolutely love it, if anyone of you have ever traveled to Asia or Europe its buildings like this that are popping up all over the place. For those that say it won't be built you are certainly wrong. The family that is building this tower our billionaires and the money is already there for construction. The only thing they are waiting on is the permits to actually "build", but money isn't a problem. The developer said that most people in the "US" wouldn't like it anyway because they aren't use to that type of architecture. I appreciate the feed back and I knew there would be more people hating it than actually liking it. Other U.S cities will start to look to the European and asian style skyscrapers, Louisville certainly isn't the only place in the US that will be building post-modern towers.

I loved the original pic...but the video is amazing.

It's boxy sure...but this reinvents boxy. It's different from every approach, and it makes sense from every street level approach.

I hate most projects like this. But man, this one is amazing.

And yes, It's so anti-southern; which is good for defining Louisville as a niche southern city (that is attractive to northerners?) It's New Yorkers that designed this, no?

I'm happy. :eek2:

Personally I'm not a fan of the design. The whole disjointed look throws me off. I think the building would look a lot better if the island and leg components weren't as boxy and were a little better integrated. But congratulations to L'ville on the monumental investment that this represents.

The video is AWESOME!!! It really gives us a good idea as to how this proposal will fit in the existing environment.

WAY cool video. I still don't like the kickstand-looking thing though. :D

WAY cool video. I still don't like the kickstand-looking thing though. :D
It's an elevator. The main entrance to the museum.

I'm happy for Louisville. My family is from Kentucky, so I'm biased. But, this building is ugly. That amount of money could have been better spent on a much better building. I'm dissapointed, but happy for Louisville. It's a good problem to have. Most cities only dream of a project like this.

Is there any surprise cwilson doesn't like it? No, it's on the wrong side of the river for him.



Everyother thread states that this thing is ugly and you have to call me out...grow up.

You are one of 7 people from L'ville here, who, I don't know, being as how you are "new," but I am entitled to not like something...and if this thing was on the "right side" of the river, I would hate it even more.

This does not relate to the street well either. Tall buildings need street presence and this doesn't have it. Reminds me of the 1950-1960s mistake with a modern twist.

I'm with those of you that are criticizing its connectivity to its surroundings (and what appears to be a very pedestrian-unfriendly design) and those that have compared it to the Ren Center in Detroit. It looks too detached from the rest of the city. As a unique building I suppose it's fine, but at the same time I wouldn't want to give up connective functionality for the sake of a stand-out design. A great design accomplishes both.

^I have to add that I have not yet seen the video so perhaps my opinion will change when I get myself to a computer where I can check the video out. But for now that's my initial impression.

Nice try cwilson. I have been around these boards (went over to skyscraperpage for a while) since 2002. Most of the veterans can tell you that. I have seen the newbie card played more than you could count. I don't really post much, but I read everything. One thing that is overly apparent is your dislike, for whatever reason, of Louisville. It wasn't necessarily your dislike of the design, but the negative and pessimistic view of Louisville being able to get this done, that pisses me off.

Nice try cwilson. I have been around these boards (went over to skyscraperpage for a while) since 2002. Most of the veterans can tell you that. I have seen the newbie card played more than you could count. I don't really post much, but I read everything. One thing that is overly apparent is your dislike, for whatever reason, of Louisville. It wasn't necessarily your dislike of the design, but the negative and pessimistic view of Louisville being able to get this done, that pisses me off.


AGAIN, GROW UP! As you obviously missed, I know you aren't "new" and would almost put money that you are Louisville's most infamous member, GYCH. Go back and re-read.

Many have stated since this was announced that this is a tall order to get done. This would be tough to pull off in ANY mid-sized city. That is my point...and like I said, I will believe it when I see the crane...like many projects in Indy...so...kindly, piss off.

This does not relate to the street well either. Tall buildings need street presence and this doesn't have it. Reminds me of the 1950-1960s mistake with a modern twist.

I've seen this concern brought up on several occasions. Keep in mind that this location basically has no street presence. It is an abandoned lot that sits behind the historical buildings on Main. The other side is crossed by an elevated expressway.

Despite these limitations, this building will still have street presence. The public areas will simply hover 20 stories OVER the historical buildings on Main rather than hide unnoticed behind them. Quite an eye catching proposal when you throw in the diagonal glass elevator shaft that will carry visitors from the building's 'front door' located directly on Main.

It will definitely connect to it's surroundings but in a completely unique way.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, cwilson. Ask Lexy if I'm gych. Ask Soulbrotha, if he ever gets out of the brig, if I'm gych. I don't know why you are getting so pissy. Yet, you ask me to grow up. What have I said that was juvenile. All I did was call you out on your chronic dislike, for whatever reason, of Louisville.

On the project note, I don't think you understand the elements in play. The developers, the financing, etc. Louisville has a history of unusual and challenging buildings, unlike most cities our size. So, you may have your pessimistic views, but don't be surprised when a Louisvillian rebuffs you on them.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, cwilson. Ask Lexy if I'm gych. Ask Soulbrotha, if he ever gets out of the brig, if I'm gych. I don't know why you are getting so pissy. Yet, you ask me to grow up. What have I said that was juvenile. All I did was call you out on your chronic dislike, for whatever reason, of Louisville.

On the project note, I don't think you understand the elements in play. The developers, the financing, etc. Louisville has a history of unusual and challenging buildings, unlike most cities our size. So, you may have your pessimistic views, but don't be surprised when a Louisvillian rebuffs you on them.


You can't be serious? Out of no where you single me out for the dislike of this project, yet ever other post here does the same...and you wonder why I cop an attitude? Well, there's your answer. It all started with you. That doesn't take rocket science.

OH...and where is this "chronic dislike?" Is it because I don't let GYCH bash Indy that it is inferred as a dislike for Louisville? Well, I certainly don't let him make your 'ville out to something it isn't and I point-out its short-comings, so think what you want.

and finally, I would be pesimistic of this project anywhere.

I'm not asking for you to have an aeronautical engineering degree. But, the safest bet to come along was that you weren't going to like it. The icing on the cake was your doubting the actual construction of this. You were the first one to doubt. Negative, negative, negative. The only halfway positive thing that you said was, "I glad Louisville is getting a new tower" followed by "if it ever happens". You have no tact. You have no respect for Louisville. If Indy announced a project of this relative magnitude, you wouldn't let anyone from Louisville doubt Indy's ability to get it done, would you? As I said, the design of this building is going to get both positive and negative reactions. That is the point of it. However, there is no reason for anyone to be negative about the potential impact or constructibility of this project given the information we are being fed. That is, unless dislike Louisville.

"Looking at the skyline with the tower makes me...um...not like it at all. It is too isolated...way too isolated. Hmmm. I just don't know. I think it is great Louisville is getting a new tower, but like with a few proposals here in Indy, I will believe it when there is a crane at the site."

Dude, you are attacking me just to attack me. Plain and simple. Maybe I was the first person to question if this will actually be built (something that is highly appropriate given the boldness of the design and market conditions in your city/region), but hardly the only, you twit. As matter of fact, others even boldly stated "it will never get built." Go back and reread the thread. Why haven't the others who questioned this happeneing received your wrath? Two words...you take your pick.

I am done with you

zap.

Interesting video. Once again, monumentally, it is fine. How long before you think they will put cement planters in that "plaza" area where no one will linger bacause it is desoalte and boring.

I don't like the design, it's way too boxy and just quite odd, not majestic. Quite fugly indeed. I wish the design would look better. It is a good project with a lot of good components I am just very picky on the design. It looks like a massed conglomeration of boxes from the 70s.

I like the tower, overall. Wish it were closer to the other buildings downtown. Very quirky, but cool, as well. :)
Congrats!
BTW, this is a great time for a lot of our cities. Baltimore, Nashville, Mobile, and now Louisville getting new tallests for themselves. Wow! Awesome time for our Country's construction. :)

It is indeed. Nashville has 12 high rises planned and another 4 proposed.

^^
Whats not going to hold this back is that Kentucky government has so little to do with it. And with a family like the Browns pushing this along, its going to be a major challenge for the nay sayers to stop it rather than get it up.

My personal opinion?

Honestly, I don't like the design, but I was expecting this, and my dislike and its complete out of the box shot is what makes it so deliciously awesome!

Would Atlanta have ever even considered this?
Charlotte?
Nashville?

Its a complete breakaway from what's happening in the rest of the south. I'm so excited about that. Louisville is no cut and paste sunbelter.

So the cities you mentioned are???

Thanks for your vote of confidence, cwilson. Ask Lexy if I'm gych. Ask Soulbrotha, if he ever gets out of the brig, if I'm gych. I don't know why you are getting so pissy. Yet, you ask me to grow up. What have I said that was juvenile. All I did was call you out on your chronic dislike, for whatever reason, of Louisville.

On the project note, I don't think you understand the elements in play. The developers, the financing, etc. Louisville has a history of unusual and challenging buildings, unlike most cities our size. So, you may have your pessimistic views, but don't be surprised when a Louisvillian rebuffs you on them.


No, he certainly isn't Gych (for what it's worth). LOL!!! DaVille has been around a bit longer.

Sorry, I'm a native Kentuckian and I love my state but this buildings design in not modern nor futuristic. It resembles the typical 1960's/70's box designs. They could be more creative building something that tall and to have a flat roof no ornamentation makes it even less attractive.
Anyone who calls this design "Modern" must be stuck in a time warp and has not seen anything recently built.
I love Louisville is getting height but thumbs down. I hope they plan to alter the design before they build.
This is modern:
http://ajayglass.net/images/project-ClevelandFC-02.jpg
http://www.equityoffice.com/images/WASHMUTL_251.jpg

Watched the video. Didn't do as much for me as I hoped it would. This still feels to disconnected from the city. Furthermore, such architectural explanations as "flip it!" hardly make this seem well thought out. It feels too forced...trying to be different for the sake of being different, while at the same time looking like a 70s box tower gone awry. This just isn't growing on me at all.

You can't be serious? Out of no where you single me out for the dislike of this project, yet ever other post here does the same...and you wonder why I cop an attitude? Well, there's your answer. It all started with you. That doesn't take rocket science.

OH...and where is this "chronic dislike?" Is it because I don't let GYCH bash Indy that it is inferred as a dislike for Louisville? Well, I certainly don't let him make your 'ville out to something it isn't and I point-out its short-comings, so think what you want.

and finally, I would be pesimistic of this project anywhere.

Oh, take it easy on Cwilson. My first thought too was "this will be archived someday on google and never heard from again" because that happens all the time with these kinds of unique, interesting, ahead-of-their-time projects. Just take a look at emporis for any major city and they are top-heavy with crowns that never materialized, or took FOREVER to open. I think that's where Cwilson is coming from, not some irrational snarl at L'ville. He saves that for gych, RIP.

I like it. Sure, it isn't 'pretty', but I think it is a very unique look for Louisville.
I like the 'lego' look of it.

I hope this comes to fruition for Louisville! :)

So the cities you mentioned are???
Would any of those mentioned cities consider something as harsh and imposing as Museum Plaza?
Perhaps, but I really don't think it would fly very well.
It seems to have a lot of government support here in Louisville and Kentucky, and many people I have talked to are taking pride the the odd-ball concept Louisville is taking.
But I admitedly don't know much about Charlotte and am not too familiar with Nashville, so call me out if you think they'd put something like this up. It's just that the impressions I get of those cities on these forums suggests they wouldn't stand by such a radical design.

Wow, this is a weird, weird building. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Okay, I've watched the video and I still think this building is revolting. It appears to be the same sort of high-concept "looka me, ma -- I'm an architect!" crap that befouls so many American cities these days. You'd have thought people would have learned not to build disjointed fortresses from the collosal mistake of Detroit's Renaissance Center, but apparently not. And let's not even talk about what appears to be nothing so much as a windswept concrete void of a plaza. No flashy video is going to change the inherent grotesqueness of this thing.

Just because the Museum Plaza and the Detroit RenCen appear to be placed in a similar spatial relationship their respective downtowns does not make it a valid comparison. The two cities are vastly different--Detroit was dying a quickening death when Ren Cen was constructed; this is clearly not the case in Lville. Rencen was designed as a fortress against the city; it does not appear to be the case with MP, although the pedestrian approach does leave something to be desired. MP will not require a huge swath of land to be cleared; it does not appear to be in the same vein as say, the Arch in St Louis (devastating) or even the freeways along the Ohio in Lville. I think this will fit much better than any of those 60s urban renewal projects that gutted large parts of many US cities.

Seriously, how much damage could this one single building do to Louisville? There has to be more to the criticism than "I dont like it", "its just boxes" or "it doesnt fit in the skyline..."

wow, i can't believe that this is actually getting built. :applause:

Just because the Museum Plaza and the Detroit RenCen appear to be placed in a similar spatial relationship their respective downtowns does not make it a valid comparison. The two cities are vastly different--Detroit was dying a quickening death when Ren Cen was constructed; this is clearly not the case in Lville. Rencen was designed as a fortress against the city; it does not appear to be the case with MP, although the pedestrian approach does leave something to be desired. MP will not require a huge swath of land to be cleared; it does not appear to be in the same vein as say, the Arch in St Louis (devastating) or even the freeways along the Ohio in Lville. I think this will fit much better than any of those 60s urban renewal projects that gutted large parts of many US cities.

Seriously, how much damage could this one single building do to Louisville? There has to be more to the criticism than "I dont like it", "its just boxes" or "it doesnt fit in the skyline..."
Why does there have to be more? That's how many of us feel. Throughout history architects have often stepped outside the box on their designs in the hopes that they will break new ground. Sometimes they did, sometimes they fell on their faces. I just don't see anything too awe-inspiring about the concept of this project other than that the final impression it leaves is "wow, that looks weird". And like I said before, the video doesn't change that impression at all.

Flip it!

Seriously, I don't blame Louisville for being excited about such a proposal, but I personally just don't care for it.

My reactions to this project, in chronological order:

1) Holy ****, 61 stories?!? Louisville just landed a trophy building!

2) Waitaminnit.... that's the "ultra-modern" tower? It looks like it comes out of the same 1970s school that gave us Sears and John Hancock. If anything, it's retro-modern.

3) Well, maybe I'm not giving it enough credit. It contains half a dozen different functions: businesses, museums, hotel space, etc. If they do this right, it'll become a cornerstone for the city and probably one of the icons of the midwest/south/whatever.

4) Hold on a sec... are they seriously going to put this thing on the edge of the CBD, with a large desolate plaza underneath? Did they learn nothing from urban renewal?!? A building has to be more than a piece of the skyline; it needs to blend into the fabric of its area and give pedestrians a reason to come near it. This will do neither.

5) You know, it's actually kinda ugly.

Conclusion: This will undoubtedly define Louisville's skyline for a long time to come, but it's a pretty underwhelming design. What it achieves in height, it lacks in nuance. This building ought to have been intended to magnify Louisville's local flavor, not shun it. What a shame.

Conclusion: This will undoubtedly define Louisville's skyline for a long time to come, but it's a pretty underwhelming design. What it achieves in height, it lacks in nuance. This building ought to have been intended to magnify Louisville's local flavor, not shun it. What a shame.

Actually, the lavish historical hoods' that Louisville is known for are only one facet of the city's 'local flavor'. One of Louisville's first modern office buildings was designed by none other than Mies Van Der Rohe. Since then, a series of 'questionable' projects have gone up that wouldn't have gotten off the drawing board in most cities.

http://www.museumplaza.net/images/skyline-large.jpg
I don't like it. not one bit. as a matter of fact, i nearly puked when Raleigh-NC blew it up to THIS size. i would say that most of the people in this thread absolutely dispise this tower by a 75%-25% margin.

however, on the flip side of things, louisville's getting a SIXTY-ONE floor tower!!!!!!! how many cities can say that for themselves? it's ugly as all-be-damned, but i'm happy for louisville nonetheless. i mean, don't get me wrong; i'm definitely among the 75% that doesn't like it, but let's all be thankful for louisville here. Justadude said it best when he said it's a "trophy building".

This is modern:
http://ajayglass.net/images/project-ClevelandFC-02.jpg
http://www.equityoffice.com/images/WASHMUTL_251.jpg
But are they "ultra-modern?"

I will probably change my opinion of this building once built but from seeing the renderings these are my thoughts.

OMA known for its quirky and innovative design tried to hard to create a new icon,instead of locating the museum on the groundlevel and placing the towers above this podium they decided to go for something that would be eye catching something there known for but they failed miserably.

Furthermore if you were a pedestrian looking up at this building the total mass and unstable nature of the design would lead you away fearing that the building might fall on top of you,also the elevation difference between the plaza and street level causes it to seem more like a fortress than a public space.The placing of elevator(steel girder) at the street leads to an unusual and again an attempt to cause attention to a rather dull building.

In continuation the towers themselves are designed to look like industrial smoke stacks, whats so modern about it?the facade is suppose to be dominate and overpowering yet looks chessy, it reminds me of sears or seagrams,i thought it was suppose to be an ultra modern design, not something from the 70's?

IN conclusion,after built i will probably love this structure because of its unique structural expressionalism but in terms of context,unurban nature ,dated design of the towers,overpowering of the skyline, and horrendous massing and proportions i dont really like it. AGAIN like i said if Prince-Ramus wouldn't of tried to be so eye catching and tried to be such a superstar he would of just placed the museum at street level and just had the towers over it,instead he decided to spend probably 50million more just to create ,SOMETHING NEW,what a failure.

But are they "ultra-modern?"

Actually, the second picture he postes is a classic example of 1980s postmodernism.

Actually, the second picture he postes is a classic example of 1980s postmodernism.

The first he posts is somewhat postmodern as well, sort of "deco revival".

Is there a name for this "style" that Koolhaas, et al are working in? I think it used to be called Deconstructivsm, or "Decon".

that is a strange looking building. but tall.

I have been in this Forum for over 2 years and enjoy viewing pictures and hearing about what is going on in other communities but rarely join the debates because I see no point in trying to change others views. Since I am from Louisville I feel like weighing in on this so I may be biased but I think Museum Plaza will be great for the city and I love the design and size.

For the comparisons to the RenCen, I have never been to Detroit and I am not familiar to the extent it is isolated from the CBD but MP will be a 7 block walk from Louisville’s CBD. For those of you who are not familiar with Louisville, although there are not mid-risers in the blocks surrounding the MP site the area is filled with 5 – 6 floor cast iron buildings that are very much a part of downtown. Even though it creates a gap in the skyline and appears isolated from the CBD, MP will definitely be an intricate part of downtown and fit in well with this section of the city. I will say it would be neat if it were built smack dab in the middle of the CBD but I am looking forward to see how it extends the skyline. I would rather have a gap to fill than no gap at all. On a side note, I am surprised nobody has compared MP to the Bottle District in St. Louis, which I think will do wonders for St. Louis but is not part of the CBD.

Most of us have seen enough threads to know if this were proposed in another city, Forum members from that community would embrace the building and be just as excited most of us in Louisville are while people from other communities would pick apart the flaws. I am not sure why this happens. Outside of debates in this Forum not many people care about the location, the gap in the skyline, how it will fit in, or if it is boxy or state of the art, modern or retro? These issues will work themselves out.

I guess what I am getting at is I am just going to enjoy the positives…WOW we will hopefully have a 61 floor, 700 foot building, without counting a spire or space that is not functional! I am really looking forward to this building and have no doubt that it will be great for the city. I think it will leave a favorable impression on most people who visit or live in Louisville. Personally I would rather have visitors leave Louisville with an impression of our skyline and talking about MP rather than leaving with no impression at all. It sounds like it will really happen and but I will not believe it until I the ground is broken. Get the cameras ready....

The Story Behind the Building...
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060212/SCENE05/602120314

The birth of a building
Here's the story behind the radical Museum Plaza skyscraper
By Chris Poynter
cpoynter@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



The design for a radical, new, 61-story skyscraper burst onto the Louisville scene Thursday, when Museum Plaza was unveiled to the public.

But the story of the building began well before that.

For the past five months, Courier-Journal staff writer Chris Poynter was granted access to the creative process by Museum Plaza's investors.

Here is the story of how this unique design came to be.

The stage at Actors Theatre was dark, except for a spotlight that bathed architect Joshua Prince-Ramus in white.



It was mid-November of 2005, and 325 prominent Louisville business and civic leaders -- the mayor, as well as bankers, corporate executives, art-gallery owners, philanthropists and professors -- were planted in the plush seats of the Pamela Brown Auditorium.

Their eyes were focused on Ramus, a New York architect, as he paced the stage, discussing the new skyscraper that his firm, Office for Metropolitan Architecture, would design for Louisville.

To be called Museum Plaza, the building would be unlike any in the city, he said, and will "undoubtedly change your skyline." Seated in the audience, listening to his every word, were the building's developers: Laura Lee Brown; her husband, Steve Wilson; and their investment partner, Steve Poe.

Ramus then pledged to reveal the building's design concept.

At the end of his speech, a black-and-white photograph of a woman flashed on the screen behind him. She was upside-down.

The crowd laughed; they got the message.

Ramus laughed with them.

Louisville architecture was about to be turned on its head.

Flashback: A dream is born
Brown, 64, met Wilson, 58, a little more than a decade ago, a couple drawn together by many shared interests.

Before long, their marriage gave birth to a dream: They hoped to share their love of contemporary art, to ignite interest in downtown Louisville and to help conserve farmland -- all through a single, dramatic act: They would build a landmark art museum in the heart of the city.

Brown is a member of the Brown family that controls the Brown-Forman liquor corporation; in 1993, when they met, Wilson was an employee of a public-relations company that had contracts with Brown-Forman. They were introduced by a mutual friend, a Brown-Forman executive, who knew the two enjoyed art, good food, culture and travel.

Three years later, they married.

The two also shared a love of the land, she having grown up on her family farm, Sutherland, in eastern Jefferson County, and he on a farm in Wickliffe, in Western Kentucky.

Brown's mother died in 1983, and she, her brother and her sister sold the family farm in the mid-1980s. It was later carved into a subdivision that Brown drives past almost daily.

"It's painful to go by," said Brown, the great-granddaughter of Brown-Forman founder George Garvin Brown.

So, when she and her husband learned that a 1,000-acre farm on the Ohio River in Oldham County was being threatened with development, they purchased it in 1996.

They now raise buffalo on the land, selling the meat to local restaurants and markets. They also placed a conservation easement on part of the land, ensuring that it never will be developed.

Brown and Wilson decided they would begin investing in downtown Louisville as a way to stem suburban sprawl. Good development downtown, they reasoned, could curb sprawl by making the urban core an attractive and desirable place to live.

For one thing, they wanted to open a boutique hotel downtown (the resulting 21C on Main Street, which will feature part of their contemporary art collection, is scheduled to open in March). They also started thinking about renovating or building a place for a contemporary art museum.

At the same time, the two were active in the Speed Art Museum, which was mapping out its long-term plan, including a possible expansion downtown.

When it became clear in spring 2005 that the Speed would stay at its current location adjacent to the University of Louisville, Brown and Wilson began looking for an architect to build their dream museum.

They knew a lot about art and artists -- both of them being collectors for decades -- but they didn't know how to pull off such a large and complicated undertaking.

That's when their personal attorney, a 32-year-old, Harvard-trained lawyer working for Louisville's Frost Brown Todd, stepped in.

Craig Greenberg is an expert in tax law who knows how to finance complicated real-estate deals. He also happened to represent Steve Poe, who was building a 615-room Marriott, which opened in 2005, the first major new downtown hotel in decades.

Poe didn't know Brown or Wilson until Greenberg introduced them last spring.

A native of Marengo, Ind., 45 minutes north of Louisville, Poe was raised in a family that owned a lumber company, Claude Poe Lumber Co., named after Poe's grandfather.

Poe went to Purdue University as a civil-engineer major, but later changed to business management and is still nine hours short of a degree.

He began his career by building homes in Louisville and Southern Indiana, and, by the late 1990s, his Southeast Development Co. had become one of Jefferson County's fastest-growing home-building companies. He grew too quickly, however, and soon found himself overextended, struggling to pay bills and finish homes.

Southeast went out of business, but Poe later formed Icon Properties, a Louisville development company.

Last year, he broke from Icon to form his own firm, Poe Companies.

Poe has spent much of his life doing suburban development, but he has increasingly become a downtown developer -- and his offices are now on Fifth Street downtown.

"Five years ago, I saw downtown coming back, and I saw opportunity here," Poe said.

He met Wilson and Brown in March 2005 at their farm. David Mohney, dean of the University of Kentucky College of Design, also was there.

Wilson and Brown told Poe they wanted to build a mixed-used building downtown that would include an art museum.

"They told me they wanted it to be a world-class building. They wanted to hire a premier architect, and they wanted the building to be artistic in itself," Poe said.

Mohney drew up a list of renowned architects -- Daniel Libeskind and Frank Gehry, among others -- to interview, along with younger, up-and-coming designers.

Poe was skeptical.

"You are going to have to be totally committed to it financially," Poe told Wilson and Brown. "And it's going to take time."

In a few weeks, Poe was on an airplane with Wilson and Brown, flying to the Netherlands to meet and interview some people on Mohney's short list of architects. Another trip took them to New York to meet with other architects.

They eventually settled on the Office for Metropolitan Architecture, founded by Rem Koolhaas, who in 2000 won the architecture profession's highest honor, the Pritzker Prize.

Poe thought Koolhaas' OMA firm would have no interest in designing a building in Louisville. But they had a possible "in": A member of the Brown family knew someone who knew someone who worked in OMA's New York office.

That connection was golden.

Ramus, the architect who oversees OMA's New York office, flew to Louisville last summer to see the building site, near Seventh Street and River Road, and to meet with the investors.

OMA agreed to take the project -- it was drawn to it, Ramus said, by the complexity and the restraints of the site, which in architecture usually makes for interesting solutions.

Ramus also liked the investors' passion for the project and passion for Louisville. And, he said, some of the most stunning architecture being completed today is not in large cities, but in smaller cities in the Midwest.

"I was impressed that these guys would be sensitive to costs and that they took pride in designing a building that would look great," Poe said.

"Within 48 hours, we had a letter of intent."

September 2005: Introducing the architects
The September sun was setting on 1,000-acre Woodland Farm, perched on the dramatic, steep banks of the Ohio River in rural Oldham County.

Brown and her husband were hosting a dinner party to introduce their friends and business associates to Ramus, Erez Ella and Selva Gurdogan, from the Office for Metropolitan Architecture.

Waiters and waitresses slid through the crowd, serving cocktails and hors d'oeuvres from silver trays as 30 guests, dressed in suits and glittering dresses, mingled on the front porch and the perfectly clipped lawn.

Ramus, a Seattle native, stood out among the crowd.

Dressed in a tight-fitting black suit and silver sandals, with closely cropped salt-and-pepper hair, he looked distinguished, even at 36.

Wilson and Brown gathered their guests in the hallway of their 1840s farmhouse, filled with contemporary and video art, to make a toast before dinner.

"We've been dreaming a lot about what we could do in Louisville," Wilson said. "There has got to be a way to bring contemporary art to Louisville."

Wilson then announced that he, his wife and their investment partner, Poe, would build a new high-rise in downtown Louisville that would contain an art museum, a hotel and luxury condos. The University of Louisville's Master of Fine Arts program was considering moving into the building, too, he said.

At the dinner party, Wilson invited Ramus to speak.

He stepped onto a staircase, above the crowd.

Many people had asked him, he said, why a celebrated architectural firm, which could work anywhere in the world, would agree to a commission in a mid-sized city in Kentucky.

"My response is: Why not?"

October 2005: Preliminary design unveiled
"Your dream client is here," Wilson said, bursting through the front door of OMA's office in New York's Soho neighborhood, his arms spread wide.

Ten architects and interns, their faces buried in flat-screen Dell computers, looked up startled but smiling, as the man from Kentucky walked through the loft-like space, with concrete floors and a wall of widows.

After months of discussion with Ramus and his team about their vision for Museum Plaza, the Kentuckians were eager to see the first model for the structure.

could not make the Oct. 13 trip, so Wilson, Poe and Greenberg chartered a jet to New York, leaving Louisville that morning before sunrise.

Bob Gunnell, Museum Plaza's public- and government-relations director, and Eric Schreiner, vice president of construction and development for Poe Cos., also went along.

In the OMA offices that morning, after grabbing some muffins and coffee, Wilson and Poe noticed a black, white and clear plastic model sitting on a table, near a scale foam model of downtown Louisville.

The structure -- a tripod with three legs supporting a platform -- looked like an oil rig. Towers were glued atop the platform.

"We still don't know what that is," Ramus said as his team -- made up of young architects in their 20s and 30s -- sat around two tables pushed together.

"This is a 3-D diagram, not a proposal for a building," Ramus stressed.

"We're coming into this with an open mind," Poe replied.

Several times over the next six hours, Poe, Wilson and others picked up the model, examining it from various angles. The piece came unglued twice and crashed onto the table. Was this a sign of how the project would go?

Though the model was not to be taken as final, it indeed became the basis for Museum Plaza, though the design evolved: A 61-story structure with legs and towers devoted to different uses, and a platform -- or island -- 22 stories in the air that would contain the art museum, restaurants and shops.

A glass elevator, running at an angle, would allow visitors to ride from Main Street to the platform.

Ramus said the design was the result of "hyper-rationalism."

Ramus and his team deduced that Museum Plaza was, in essence, a whole city block -- with its various uses -- condensed into one structure.

So the design reflected that.

Four legs below the island would serve three different purposes -- the hotel leg, the loft housing leg, a vertical elevator core and the angled glass elevator.

There would be three towers above the island -- one for the offices and two for luxury condominiums with panoramic views of the city, Ohio River and Southern Indiana.

The island would be the place where all the users of Museum Plaza and its visitors would meet and mix, an urban block in the sky.

A conventional building would not have worked at the site, Ramus explained. There simply wasn't enough space at ground level to put a museum, along with the entrances needed for a hotel, condos, lofts and offices. The island in the sky, however, allowed for that.

After the partners understood and approved the design concept, a natural question surfaced: How could such an unusual building be constructed without bankrupting them?

(It was a valid concern: The project had begun last fall as a hypothetical $70 million skyscraper, but by the time the preliminary architecture work was completed in mid-January 2006 -- and professional price estimators evaluated the project -- the price would jump to a dizzying $380 million.)

The towers and legs attached to the platform would be the most efficient to build, Ramus told them, since they are, in essence, traditional buildings, squares and rectangles, largely with repetitive floor plans.

The most expensive would be the acre-sized platform, but costs could be kept down if it were constructed like an oil rig -- built on the ground, then hoisted.

"We're open to a radical design as long as it has some cost-efficiency to it," Poe said.

After the daylong meeting, it was time for the Kentucky group to return to Louisville.

They piled into a black Chevy Suburban, and, in the middle of Manhattan rush-hour traffic, Wilson asked the driver to find a liquor store. He ran inside, returning with a corkscrew, plastic cups, a bottle of Woodford Reserve bourbon and another of 1996 Bricco Rocche Barolo wine.

In the private jet, awaiting takeoff, Poe said he had to find ways to save money at Museum Plaza. The project was growing larger, more complicated and more expensive each time the investment partners met with the architectural team.

"This is going to take some 'value engineering,' " he said, a developer's term for eking out the most value at the lowest cost.

Once they were in the night sky, however, Wilson uncorked the wine, poured everyone a glass and toasted a successful day.

Poe was still thinking about the costs, and the people and corporations he must persuade to buy into Museum Plaza.

"We need to have some winners, some big people," he said.

December 13: Problems surface, prices rise
It's mid-December; the basic design of Museum Plaza is entrenched, as Poe, Brown, Wilson, Greenberg and Gunnell arrive in New York City for more meetings.

There's much to discuss: How will the contemporary museum operate? What will it show? How many employees are needed? Is one curator adequate? Will the luxury condominiums sell? And what about the commercial space? Will it lease quickly?

But, first, there's a potentially significant problem.

Barry Alberts, president of Louisville's Downtown Development Corp., had been shown a preliminary model of Museum Plaza and had many questions and reservations. He'd shared those concerns with Mayor Jerry Abramson, who had similar concerns and later put his thoughts in a three-page letter to Poe.

The building is so large, so massive that it's completely out of context with West Main Street, with its four- and five-story historic, cast-iron-façade buildings. It has the potential to "overwhelm its neighbors," Abramson wrote.

Museum Plaza will block the views of the new Muhammad Ali Center, which sits just east of the proposed Museum Plaza site, the mayor added.

The platform in the sky is an "exciting concept," the mayor wrote, but it takes people off the streets -- generally not good for urban life.

Poe worried aloud that blocking the Ali Center, more than the other issues, could kill the deal.

"How do we defend this with the city?" Poe said, standing before a plastic model of Museum Plaza.

One leg of the tower -- the one containing the lofts -- was causing the most problems.

Wilson suggested notching out some of that leg, so people driving into downtown Louisville on Interstate 64, from west to east, could see more of the Ali Center and its ceramic tiles, which depict images of Muhammad Ali.

Gurdogan, one of the architects, took a foam block and notched out part of the lofts, giving everyone an immediate look at the result.

The building looked odd, and it didn't improve the view that much.

"Call Louisville and have someone drive down I-64, starting at 15th street, taking pictures toward the Ali Center, then have them e-mailed to us," said Greenberg, the attorney.

Gunnell, the public- and government-relations director, picked up his cell phone and called Louisville. Within an hour, the images arrived.

The group concluded that, even though Museum Plaza will block some of the Ali Center, the center would still be visible to approaching motorists for about 400 feet -- enough to see and understand the ceramic-tile images.

Would the mayor buy that? And, if not, did this mean OMA would have to start over with a new design?

Later in the day, after a lunch of sandwiches and grilled vegetables, the discussion turned to the museum.

Wilson and Brown will use their private money to build and operate the nonprofit museum, which will have no permanent collection but feature traveling exhibits.

Art is at the center of Museum Plaza, both literally and figuratively, and it's what ties every other part of the structure together, Ramus points out.

Another design firm -- 2X4, whose offices are in the same building as OMA -- was brought in to discuss the branding of Museum Plaza. It also laid out the various models for how a museum could operate.

It could be a small gallery, a small museum or a large museum employing 80 to 200 people.

Brown was overwhelmed, the strained expressions on her face showing it. Was this museum getting too expensive, she wondered.

"All of this absolutely terrifies me," she said. The museum by itself, she said, "sounds like a huge project. How do we stay on top of all this?"

"There does need to be some sort of reality check," Greenberg said.

"Part of why we are discussing this is that we want to scare the ---- out of you," Ramus replied.

Laughter broke the tension.

Throughout the design process, Ramus and his team consistently stated that they don't want the building to be unveiled and then never constructed.

Getting all these issues in the open is necessary, he said, and planning now will make for a better museum in the future.

Wilson assured his wife that Museum Plaza was feasible.

February 2006:The public unveiling
An off-duty Louisville Metro Police officer stood at the front door of 609 W. Main St. last Monday night, guarding a well-kept secret: the final design of Museum Plaza.

Black drapes, hung from metal poles, prevented anyone walking by from seeing inside.

An exhibit featuring scale models of Museum Plaza and a video depicting the building from various angles, with a thumping house-music soundtrack, had just been completed. The smell of fresh glue hung in the air.

The exhibit would open to the public in four days -- but on this night a select group was invited by Wilson, Brown and Poe to a cocktail reception and sneak preview.

The three principal investors behind the radical design stood smiling, awaiting their guests' arrival, and Ramus and his architectural team -- who had labored around the clock on the exhibit -- were finally at ease after months of work. They also had glasses of red and white wine in their hands.

All of Mayor Abramson's concerns about Museum Plaza -- its impact on West Main and on the Ali Center -- had been allayed. The mayor was now fully on board. He was even predicting that Museum Plaza, with its unique design, could become an "icon" for the city.

The question now: How will the public react?

Jack Conway, a Louisville attorney, was among the first to arrive. After chatting with the investors, he made his way back to a darkened theater to view the video that brought Museum Plaza to life, that showed the 61-story structure gleaming in daylight and glowing at night on the Louisville skyline.

"I'm blown away by the design," he said.

Others, too, raved about the building -- though they said some people might not like or understand it.

John Yarmuth, the founder of the Louisville Eccentric Observer, predicted that Museum Plaza would make a splash in Louisville and beyond.

It could become a symbol, he said, a project that shows Louisville is a city of innovation. "To me, it says that this community thinks differently," he said.

It was exactly what Steve Wilson, Laura Lee Brown and Steve Poe wanted to hear.

so its supposed to look like an oil rig? but i like the fact that they took some time to think it through in terms of cost, and design.

its good that the architect told them he wasn't going to unveill it, unless it was going be built. that must mean this has a very very very good of going up.

I just wish it wasnt so boxy, if you look at this photo gallery from the courier-journal it looks like most of the earlier models had a lot more angles in them. Maybe they will do some tweaking to this design.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20060208&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=208009&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=1

they said the more straight forward boxy look would be cheaper.

Its a cool looking building, I dont love it and I dont hate it. It is imposing and garrish and has a strange relationship with the street like others have said, but it does have a better relationship than a parking lot. It seems a little tall for that location, but pictures never do the end product justice.

I am conservative as far as architecture goes, so of course I would choose to cover some parking lots closer in with classy 30-40 story buildings.

I love it. It may be the next Eiffel Tower. Almost everyone in Paris thought it was ugly but now it is the symbol of Paris and beauty. I like the tower because of its weird shape and height.

But are they "ultra-modern?"

Ultra modern....... what defines something as ultra? I looked up the word Ultra in Websters.
Utra Definition: going beyond others or beyond due limit.

I do not think those towers I posted pics of are Ultra modern.
To me they are modern with historic influences.
Ultra modern to me I would say the new design for the WTC as being Ultra.
Its freaking ultra awesome,
As for MP for Louisville, it should compliment the other buildings in Louisville.... to me its almost like a butcherd National City (the Louisville one)
:puke:

ugh, the distorted opinions in here. I cant help but to laugh my a*s off over some of the comments, ROFLMAO

the Eiffel Tower has to be the best one yet though. LOL!!!!!

:puke:

and I'm not trying to be negative I just hope the design is altered as some time passes before the ground is broken.

I don't think people are saying this building will become as famous as the Eiffel Tower. The point is that many buildings are initially considered eyesores due to their bold statements yet over time they overcome this perception.

The Eiffel Tower just happens to be the most recognizable of such structures in the world. The architects even used this as a comparison to show the developers how a very tall structure can still mesh with it's surroundings. As I stated in an earlier post, I think other buildings such as Chicago's John Hancock Tower are a more valid comparison to Museum Plaza.

ugh, the distorted opinions in here. I cant help but to laugh my a*s off over some of the comments, ROFLMAO

the Eiffel Tower has to be the best one yet though. LOL!!!!!

:puke:

I can't help but notice how negative and condescending you are. I don't know why. I mean, anyone could sit and nitpick Signiture Tower as being unimaginative, but by and large, no one does that. I find any project of that magnitude to be very positive. I have no idea what your problem is, but MP is a major development, from a major architect, with major implications. People are going to speak in hyperbole because this project is major, not just for a city like Louisville, but would make waves in any market. Anyway, I feel like you may be jealous, or hate to see anyone get something you don't.

I (and other Nashvillians) would vomit all over Nashville if it got Museum Plaza -- no jealously there.

;)

^^^^

I would too. Museum Plaza wasn't designed for Nashville and it would look horrible there. It's the same reason why so many people despise the Humana Building. Graves used many river elements in the design that would tie it directly to Louisville yet many outsiders consider the building tacky and consider themselves fortunate that it was never built in their city.

It was never meant to be built anywhere else. That's what makes it unique and why people still talk about it 20 years later.

Buildings such as these are intended to reflect only the area in which they are built. And yes, contrary to what many think, Museum Plaza does this.

Not a knock against the building but Signature Tower could be built in literally any city.

DT, you know I'm not asking Nashville to pull off MP. But, it is definitely a building that has a lot of Louisville style in it. I just think that NYrunaway doesn't like to see other cities "succeed".

That's silly. He just thinks the building is ugly.

How is this building full of "Louisville" style? It's several Mies van der Rohe towers juxtaposed together in an ugainly fashion!

If anything, this will turn out to be another Kaden Tower. The only piece of avant-garde architecture in Louisville that I like is The 800 -- and only if it was restored.

Because Louisville is a city that doesn't care what outsider's think...

if it was up to architecture critics we would have never got the humana building either.

http://faculty.evansville.edu/rl29/art105/img/graves_humana.jpg

http://courses.nus.edu.sg/course/ellturne/louisgraves.gif

its just hilarious how everyone who is critical of this skyscraper (Museum Plaza) has all of the sudden became an architecture expert, and seem to know more about building skyscrapers than OMA.

Ya'll seem to have forgotten that THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.


Dou you notice how the arch on the top of the Humana building is similiar to the elevator on the museum plaza

How is this building full of "Louisville" style? It's several Mies van der Rohe towers juxtaposed together in an ugainly fashion!

Thats it. Louisville has a moderinst skyline and this fits in with that.

If anything, this will turn out to be another Kaden Tower. The only piece of avant-garde architecture in Louisville that I like is The 800 --

The 800 avant-garde? Its a Lake Shore Drive apartment/condo, set in Louisville. The archtiect who did it specialized in lakefront highrises, I think.

It's hard to verbalize. It just is. Most everyone loves the idea, the design, the "in your face"-ness that it represents. The standard box buildings DT are the least popular. We love the Humana Building, Waterfront Plaza, the Kaden Tower, etc. It's just the vibe here. The arts here. People love the Highlands because it's discombobulated. It's almost as if chaos is beauty here. I really don't have any other explanation.

If you say so... though every city has that "funk arts vibe" to it in areas.

Enjoy your tower, I guess.

....tho I like The 800 alot, too.

its just hilarious how everyone who is critical of this skyscraper (Museum Plaza) has all of the sudden became an architecture expert, and seem to know more about building skyscrapers than OMA.

Or do they even know that much about OMA? Good points, Soul.

Actually the Humana building worked real well with its site.

I am going to Louisiville this weekend and check out their exhibit on this building because I just don't think im getting it from whats online. I am really interested in how they are doing that plaza, the Main Street/plaza connection and what that gallery space is going to look like.

There is a ton of negativity about this building online, not sure if its valid. But you know what they say about opinions...everyone has one.

seriously....i've seen more people talking out of their behinds in this thread than i've ever seen in my life. I don't know how many people i've seen say they could draw this design up in their sleep, or on a napkin or something stupid like that. Yeah right, i think there is a little bit more to this building than what it looks like on the outside. It's not just going to be an executive business skyscraper where people in suits come to sit around all day. This building has WAY more features than most skyscrapers proposed in the south east...but no one seems to say anything about that... This is going to be an entertainment center with condos, a hotel, a museum and commercial space, as well as a public park on the 22nd level. So I would expect it to look unlike most skyscrapers that are only meant for one thing.

DT, why do you doubt me?

How is this building full of "Louisville" style? It's several Mies van der Rohe towers juxtaposed together in an ugainly fashion!



Actually, Mies van der Rohe actually designed one of Louisville's first modern office buildings. It's located directly across the street from the National City Building and obviously served as a model for the design of that tower. I'm sure the architects for Museum Plaza were looking at theat when they were trying to work the design into the existing skyline.

To me though, the 'Louisville style' that this building possesses has an even deeper historical perspective. Many have compared this building to an oil rig, a grain elevator, or my personal favorite, 'two butt ugly smokestacks' lol! In a way, I think that was the point.

Louisville is an old industrial river town that at one time was filled with high polluting industry. While it's easy to forget the 'ugly' side of history we must also remember that the city's lush historical hoods' would have never been possible without the wealth these industries brought.

Visually, I see Museum Plaza not so much as a modern work but as a contemporary interpretation of the city's industrial past. The more recent International Style buildings downtown simply offered the designers a link to the present.

Now that doesn't mean I think this particular building would work in other industrial cities such as Birmingham. I know your fondness of that area :)

Again the key is finding a modern style to link it with and I don't think the the majority of the South is very enamored with the International Style. That being said, if given the right interpretaion, I think a similar project could work in Birmingham.

The building appears to be a rework of one proposed for Bangkok.

Jeff, I'm aware of OMA and the works of Rem Koolhaas. Just because the firm may bill it as cutting edge and avant-garde doesn't mean it's true. It's also not true that if one dislikes the design, they cannot appreciate fine architecture.

DT, why do you doubt me?

I don't doubt you, but every city I've lived in has that funky arts vibe in it in certain areas... Buffalo has Allentown and Elmwood, Atlanta has Little Five Points, Birmingham has Five Points South, etc. etc. -- all areas that appreciate the "oddities" in life. I don't think Louisville is any different.

Cardpooch, thank you for your reasonable post. I disagree that a project like this would work in Birmingham (like Nashville, I'd puke on the city if it was built ;)), but I digress.

Ironically, I am a fan of the international style and don't have a problem with it at all (minus the plazas and hostility towards streetlife) - I just don't think this is a right fit for Louisville. I'm most at odds with garish post-modernism... ick.

BTW, I think this building WOULD work in a city like Rotterdam, Berlin, etc.

I can't help but notice how negative and condescending you are. I don't know why. I mean, anyone could sit and nitpick Signiture Tower as being unimaginative, but by and large, no one does that. I find any project of that magnitude to be very positive. I have no idea what your problem is, but MP is a major development, from a major architect, with major implications. People are going to speak in hyperbole because this project is major, not just for a city like Louisville, but would make waves in any market. Anyway, I feel like you may be jealous, or hate to see anyone get something you don't.


no, no, no..... not jealousy. hard to be jealous of this. Signature tower has a historical and modern design taking from the buildings of NY, and modern views from Atlanta and other southern cities. The MP looks like someone got bored and started drawing a building from Star Wars.

BTW, I think this building WOULD work in a city like Rotterdam, Berlin, etc.

I concur.


Art is in the eye of the beholder. You have to understand it to appreciate it most of the times. With time, this design may be the best we have seen in the south. On the other hand, it could be a mistake we frown upon. Only time, and its ability to help us deal with and understand things of the world, will tell.

Lexy, your post is probably the most accurated in this entire thread. I happen to love the fact that chance is being taken in Louisville.

NYrunaway, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I would be willing to bet that those in the art and architecture profession would have a field day with some of your comments.

Lexy makes it sound like this is some kind of life or death structure going up lol its only a skyscraper for goodness sakes.

$75 million of local money for this porject is HUGE...so, yeah, it is somewhat "life or death" when you guys think of it in terms of public investment.

75 million that the city and state will get back through rebates.

Economic impacts
Museum Plaza will contain 1.2 million square feet of space -- about twice the size of the Aegon Center on West Market Street and 153 feet taller, making it the city's tallest building.

About 300,000 square feet of that will be office space.

"That's part of the beauty of this mixed-use concept," Poe said. "We are not going to flood the marketplace" with office space.

Poe also said he believes the lofts -- priced at $275,000 and below -- and luxury condos -- $400,000 and up -- will easily sell. Sales of the lofts and condos -- along with the leasing of office space -- will begin in 90 days.

"We are four years out, and anybody involved in downtown housing will tell you there is less supply than demand," Poe said. "Two or three years ago that wasn't the case."

Craig Greenberg, 32, an attorney for the Museum Plaza investors, said projections show that about 10,500 people a day will use Museum Plaza -- office workers, tourists, hotel visitors, condo and loft owners.

Funding and construction

Museum Plaza will be built to withstand earthquakes -- it "will be a very stable and solid structure," Greenberg said.

Construction on Museum Plaza is expected to start in early 2007 and be completed in 2010, Greenberg said.

A park and pedestrian plaza, also paid for by the city and state, would connect Museum Plaza to the rear of the museums along West Main, including the Frazier Historical Arms Museum, the Louisville Science Center and the Kentucky Museum of Art and Craft.

The government would issue $75 million in bonds for the improvements, with the annual debt to be covered by rebating 80 percent of the new state and local taxes generated by Museum Plaza, Greenberg said.

Local school taxes would not be part of the rebate, he said.

"We are not seeking funding for the private-development pieces of this project, like the hotels and condos," Greenberg said. "From day one, it's net positive to both the city and state because they are collecting at least 20 percent of the taxes."

Museum Plaza will become its own vibrant community, Greenberg predicted.

"This will be a 24/7 environment," he said. "Part of the goal of this project is to give the revitalization effort downtown and on West Main a big boost."

Brown and Wilson also expect the building to help transform Louisville, in terms of art and architecture, much as new museums designed by star architects have done for other cities -- from the Milwaukee Art Museum, designed by Santiago Calatrava, to the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain, designed by Frank Gehry.

Abramson agreed.

"The fact that a world-renowned architect is designing a building and he's drawn here by local citizens … to me is a tremendous reflection of confidence in what is going on in Louisville."
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/NEWS01/602090386/0/FEATURES

all the city is going to have to do is move the flood wall, and build a park...which shouldn't be a problem seeing how good of a job the city did with waterfront park.

Hell, Shaq has more than 75 million in his bank account. If a STATE can't spend that much on something of this nature that will play such a big role in the local economy, something is wrong..especially when they will get most of the money back.

um...isn't $75million also what theCity wants for an arena? To me, that project should takepriority.

But why wait around for everyone to debate where to put the arena. You have developers willing to invest hundreds of millions of their own money on a project that will also have positive benefits on the city. Honestly, they deserve the money because they are actually willing to do something RIGHT NOW.

As the old saying goes, you snooze you lose.

The $75 million figure for the arena would be from the state. The $75 million figure for the tower would be from the city or state. However, there is more of a chance of this building being built in my lifetime than an arena.

Louisville....you sumuhmabitches.


I like it

I'd be so pissed if they built that in my city; plus I just went to Rotterdam and it would be really out of place there too, so I'm not sure what you mean. Imagine how awesome of a structure could have been designed and built that could have really added to the skyline. To me this building takes attention away from the skyline, looks really out of place, and for some odd reason was designed like a bunch of 1970's office buildings stacked together with a Sears tower facade. I think a project touted as a gift to Lousville shouldn't have been the result of one man's distinct (and quite frankly peculiar) tastes.

you registered just to say that didn't you? lol...

um...isn't $75million also what theCity wants for an arena? To me, that project should takepriority.


this site was set for a skyscraper way before the downtown arena idea was even brought up. This is the second skyscraper that this site is supposed to get. Remember Vencor?

Guys, I try to make it sound as dramatic as I possibly can. LOL!!!

I'd be so pissed if they built that in my city; plus I just went to Rotterdam and it would be really out of place there too, so I'm not sure what you mean. Imagine how awesome of a structure could have been designed and built that could have really added to the skyline. To me this building takes attention away from the skyline, looks really out of place, and for some odd reason was designed like a bunch of 1970's office buildings stacked together with a Sears tower facade. I think a project touted as a gift to Lousville shouldn't have been the result of one man's distinct (and quite frankly peculiar) tastes.


Some examples of modern Rotterdam architecture:

http://home.zonnet.nl/fotoosvanrotterdam/architecture/PICT4863.JPG

http://home.zonnet.nl/fotoosvanrotterdam/architecture/PICT0157.JPG

http://www.architecture.it/hp/copertina/29/immagini/intera/kpn.jpg

http://www.archimagazine.com/bkoolha3.jpg

http://www.ifa.de/a/a1/nda/pics/luxor.jpg

http://renggli.freezope.org/gallery/netherlands/img_04_02?display=small

http://www2.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hiraken/contents/album/modern/architecture/photo/Netherland/Rotterdam/CubeHouse/CubeHouse2.jpg

http://www.libraryman.com/images/rpl1.JPG

Just some examples...

wow...i like it....Rotterdam!

um...isn't $75million also what theCity wants for an arena? To me, that project should takepriority.

The state could do both, and should, the type of taxes requested for this project would'nt even exist without the building, so it's not like the state is actually spending any money.

But why wait around for everyone to debate where to put the arena. You have developers willing to invest hundreds of millions of their own money on a project that will also have positive benefits on the city. Honestly, they deserve the money because they are actually willing to do something RIGHT NOW.

As the old saying goes, you snooze you lose.

Agreed.


BTW, I have been to Rotterdam a handful of times and it is truely an architectural gem.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7389991#post7389991

photos from the exhibit

The only thing I like about that building is it reminds me of the international style of architecture, 60's and 70's towers. Otherwise I think its gaudy and I hope they never build something like that in Memphis. The only cities I think would look good with that building are ones that have a lot of density like New York City or Tokyo or someother dense city.
Very out of place and weird! If they build that piece of crap in Louisville, I'm going to feel very sorry for them!
Also I could careless how many good things it will have in it I still wouldn't want it in Louisville or any other city besides ones that have very much density.


~Cody02~

Get over it...why the hell would you feel sorry for us when the majority of Louisvillians want this building...just because memphis doesn't have a building over 450 ft, don't get mad at us.

It's enjoyable to see so many Louisvillians think that everyone is "just jealous."

Honestly, if the majority of those Rotterdam buildings were to be announced in a typical American city people would be up in arms due to how ugly and out of place they would appear. And the truth is, they would be.

We've become brainwashed with so many bland, paint-by-numbers designs that anything radical seems idiotic. Yet in Rotteram it is acceptable. Everyone talks about how 'cool' and 'over the top' the architecture is there yet something comes up in Louisville and it is suddenly a complete disaster lacking any taste whatsoever. It becomes 'embarrassing' or somehow has the ability to 'ruin whatever progress the city has already made'.

I bet a lot of people throughout Europe said the exact same thing when Rotterdam started putting up those eyesores throughout the city. I can hear those in established 'high culture' places like Paris or London laughing at this city's attempt to be taken seriously. Well, who ended up getting the last laugh?

It's enjoyable to see so many Louisvillians think that everyone is "just jealous."


its too obvious.

Honestly, if the majority of those Rotterdam buildings were to be announced in a typical American city people would be up in arms due to how ugly and out of place they would appear. And the truth is, they would be.

We've become brainwashed with so many bland, paint-by-numbers designs that anything radical seems idiotic. Yet in Rotteram it is acceptable. Everyone talks about how 'cool' and 'over the top' the architecture is there yet something comes up in Louisville and it is suddenly a complete disaster lacking any taste whatsoever. It becomes 'embarrassing' or somehow has the ability to 'ruin whatever progress the city has already made'.

I bet a lot of people throughout Europe said the exact same thing when Rotterdam started putting up those eyesores throughout the city. I can hear those in established 'high culture' places like Paris or London laughing at this city's attempt to be taken seriously. Well, who ended up getting the last laugh?

Well, people still laugh at the Centre Pompidou :)

Soulbrotha, you're right. I'm soooo jealous. You've got me. I want replicas built in Nashville, Birmingham, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Dallas... ALL the places I've lived! This tower is just simply incredible.

Or not... maybe the reason people don't like this plan is that it is UGLY!

I like Louisville (hey, last stop before Nashville on I-65!) so there's no jealously or any animosity at all...

I don't want a replica built anywhere. The best part of this project is that this design will be completely unique to Louisville.

ahhh edit...that rendering was crap, i have bad PS skills.

^Soul, I think that the reason you didn't hear anything about Waterfront is because it is actually in scale with its surroundings a bit more than a 61 floor tower in the middle of 5-7 story cast-iron buildings dating back to the turn of the century in places. Just my thoughts on that comment.

i think its cool to point as well that it was also reported that students attending U of L will be able to receive a master’s degree in Art from the museum.

Maybe you don't understand soulbrotha I said: I hope they never build something like that in Memphis. Now where in that sentence do you see a hint of jealousy?
I really don't care if we do not have a skyscraper over 450 feet here in Memphis. I like Memphis for its history not how tall its buildings are.

I do find it a little ironic that someone from Memphis considers this tower ugly. Take a look at your avitar Cody02. Downtown Memphis has without a doubt one of the worst collections of modern towers in the country. Few people from Memphis would even argue this. No wonder the city touts it's history as it's best asset.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm simply going to repeat what I've said a million times.

1. THIS BUILDING IS FOR LOUISVILLE AND NOWHERE ELSE. It would be out of place in Memphis, Nashville, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Peoria, or Bangor.

2. Louisville is not abandoning it's past with this project. In fact it will only amplify those assets.

How is this possible you ask?

If you had never visited Louisville before and saw this tower on the skyline what would you think?

Would it catch your attention? Most definitely

Would you expect something like that in dare I say...Louisville? No

Would you find it attractive? At this point it really doesn't matter, read on.

and then here comes the $100,000.00 bonus question....

Would you expect the front of this building to be lined with beautiful 100+ year old buildings that have been fully restored to their original splendor? You can go ahead and answer a big NO on that one.

There, my friends, is the 'beauty' of this structure and how it will enhance the historic environment in which it is placed. People will be just as inspired by the old as they are with the new. In this case, it's like an unexpected twist in a great mystery novel. Only there are more to come....

A diagonal glass elevator awaits to whisk you to a 'floating island' in the sky. When was the last time you rode one of those?

Or when was the last time you stood in a 20 story breezeway beneath a 60 story tower? On paper, is this bad urban planning? Yes. However, I also call it a godsend from the oppressive heat and humidity found in downtown Louisville in the summers.

You can call it anything you want (even ugly) but the truth is that Museum Plaza is more than just a building. You can't just look at it in photos or videos and have a clear understanding of this structure. It's much bigger than that. This is a building that must be EXPERIENCED to truly appreciate the value it adds to the existing cityscape.

Personally I think the architect new that not everyone would like the building, I think that is part of what he was trying to accomplish. The fact is that architecture, like all art, is a matter of taste. Just about all younger people I know think the building is awesome, however it seems the older the person is you talk to the less likely they are to like the building. I personally think it has to do with young people likeing more contemporary styles. Like the building or not, I don't think anyone could disagree that it is going to make a statement, what that statement is, is yet to be determined. I believe once built this building will be known nationally, atleast among architects, and people like those on this forum who are into cities. Whether it will be a joke, or viewed as a piece of art in 30 years, will only be determined in 30 years. I guess what I am saying to my fellow Louisville forumers is not to get offended when people disaprove of the building, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (especially in art), and for those who keep bashing the building, wait until after it is completed to make your final judgements, this way we will see what the building's legacy will truely be.

I agree that personal attacks are not the way to go in this situaution. Again, I by no means want to offend anyone in the fine city of Memphis.

I do think a lot of people on this forum have this opinion..

'Thank goodness my city wouldn't be stupid enough to build something like that.'

In a way I do think this leads to a superior complex with many individuals that goes beyond the typical 'It's just plain ugly'.

As I've noted before, most of my friends in Chicago at least appreciate the design, some even love it. Yet, I have yet to talk to anyone in Nashville that has anything posistive to say about it.

I agree that personal attacks are not the way to go in this situaution. Again, I by no means want to offend anyone in the fine city of Memphis.

I do think a lot of people on this forum have this opinion..

'Thank goodness my city wouldn't be stupid enough to build something like that.'

In a way I do think this leads to a superior complex with many individuals that goes beyond the typical 'It's just plain ugly'.

As I've noted before, most of my friends in Chicago at least appreciate the design, some even love it. Yet, I have yet to talk to anyone in Nashville that has anything posistive to say about it.

I like the 'lego-ish' design of the building. Sure, it's not 'pretty', but it is unique. I posted this earlier.

Remember, when the Twin Towers were built in NYC in the early 70's, many people didn't like them....they thought they were ugly and obtrusive. Over time, people became more accustomed to the towers and got used to them.
Same thing will happen in Louisville... :)

Maybe you don't understand soulbrotha I said: I hope they never build something like that in Memphis. .


and i'm saying you don't have to worry ;)

I agree that personal attacks are not the way to go in this situaution. Again, I by no means want to offend anyone in the fine city of Memphis.

I do think a lot of people on this forum have this opinion..

'Thank goodness my city wouldn't be stupid enough to build something like that.'

In a way I do think this leads to a superior complex with many individuals that goes beyond the typical 'It's just plain ugly'.

As I've noted before, most of my friends in Chicago at least appreciate the design, some even love it. Yet, I have yet to talk to anyone in Nashville that has anything posistive to say about it.

I've noticed that too, I guess we'll see if they still say that in the future. Anything can happen with this building, who knows, maybe it will become one of the most reckonizable buildings in the country, maybe not, I could be known across the nation as a joke. Personally I think it will in away put Louisville on the map in a good way. Hopefully it will beginning of a new era for Louisville.

I agree that personal attacks are not the way to go in this situaution. Again, I by no means want to offend anyone in the fine city of Memphis.

I do think a lot of people on this forum have this opinion..

'Thank goodness my city wouldn't be stupid enough to build something like that.'

In a way I do think this leads to a superior complex with many individuals that goes beyond the typical 'It's just plain ugly'.

As I've noted before, most of my friends in Chicago at least appreciate the design, some even love it. Yet, I have yet to talk to anyone in Nashville that has anything posistive to say about it.

Hey, I am neither a lover or a hater of this design. But have you seen some of the stuff being built, or going to be be built in Nashville lately? Come on. Its everything rolled into one with he Symphony Hall, Viridian, Signature, Adelicia, Terrazo, Icon, Encore...the list goes on and on. Classical to modern, the whole spectrum is represented. It is a bit of everything for everyone. Not that it is better in any way to what is going on in Louisville, but NONE of it is as daring as this design. Good or bad. Why do you care what us nashvillians think about it anyway? You should be happy for your town. LOL!!

Here is an amazing night rendering from CJ...i didn't even see this rendering at the exhibit, i wonder were they got it.

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20060219&Category=SCENE05&ArtNo=602190341&Ref=V2&Profile=1047&MaxW=500&title=1

And article with artist discussion impact of Museum Plaza on Louisville's Art Scene (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/SCENE05/602190341)

I was down in Louisville this weekend, spent some time at that exhibit on Main Street.

I'm still not too convinced with whats happening on the "high tension line tower" part of the site (west of 7th, by the Science Center) or how its going to work w. that little Fort Nelson Park, but otherwise the building makes a heck of alot more sense to me now. I am really sold on this design after seeing the explantory presentations at the exhibit.

I hate it. This design reminds me of some of the radical designs for the rebuilding of what was the World Trade Center. THis is not a particulary new design nor is it ahead of its time..its just fugly! People marvel on how "bold" it is but I guarantess that in 10-20 years time, there will be outcries to have it demolished because like so many poorly designed boxes...err buildings from the 60s and 70s, the acrhitectual style is very trendy and faddish.

Now, with that said, I think this design is not the worst I have seen. But, it would not look right in Lousiville, but rather a large skyline such as Chicago, Dallas or maybe Atlanta. Very unique but able to blend into a diverse skyline.

Whats with all the little refinery flares lining the river?

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20060219&Category=SCENE05&ArtNo=602190341&Ref=V2&Profile=1047&MaxW=500&title=1

lights

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/34776106/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/39930589/original.jpg

Awesome pics Soul. The last one is really nice.

Yeah the 100 North Main building might not be the best looking tower but atleast it doesn't look like a bunch of stacked building blocks out in the middle of nowhere!
I agree with Pensacane on how it would look better in a large skyline.
That building isn't for Memphis, Nashville, Jacksonville, etc. and it also isn't for Louisville either! And about Downtown Memphis; it might look bad to you but I beg to differ, I think the towers in Downtown Memphis are evenly spaced and compliment each other. Besides I'm just telling my opinion; Pensacane said his opinion and no one jumped on him!
By the way nice pictures of Louisville soulbrotha.

I'm sorry, Cody, but I (and most other Louisvillians) would disagree with you that this tower isn't for Louisville. Louisville is a prime candidate for a tower like this. Look at our skyline. It is hardly homogenous. I think this tower fits right in, as much of an impossibility as that may seem.

Cody02, it might surprise you to know that Memphis is my favorite downtown in Tennessee.

I think a lot of people look at this design and wonder why would Louisville want to build something that looks like so many of the ugly buildings in their own city. Rather than explain the aesthetic qualities of Museum Plaza, I'll try a different approach.

The truth is that Louisville has always been a haven for freaks and rejects.

1960's The 800 Apartments: A classic example of cool one day, utter trash the next. In most cities, The 800 would have been severely remodeled or torn down by now. Thankfully, that has not happened. It has hung around long enough (luckily with no modifications) that with a little work it is begging to become retro chic.

1970's The Galt House: Talk about an embarrassing (and ugly) hotel. How ironic that it is the most famous hotel in the city. Even more popular than the Seelbach.

1980's Humana Building: This building might seem tame today but it wasn't when it went up in the early '80's. PINK GRANITE, you've got to be kidding me. And the whole spaceship temple crown is so........well nobody has really figured that part out yet.

1990's Waterfront Plaza: Here's a great idea. Let's design a building with a Chinese circus tent lighthouse motif. Even better, we'll build TWO. Priceless!

2000's Waterfront Park Place: I'll let my friend from Nashville explain this one:

'Wow, that's one ugly piece of sh*t'

Anyone noticing a trend here? Museum Plaza will be the latest in a long line of freak buildings that have found a home here. Most Louisvillians are proud of every one of these buildings (even Kaden Tower). And guess what, they all work well together to make Louisville more like....well, Louisville. Museum Plaza won't make Louisville's skyline one of the biggest in the U.S., but it will be one of the most unique. Different is good. Different is also beautiful.

It's funny because someone asked the architect if Louisville was ready for something like Museum Plaza. He responded that Louisville had been ready for Museum Plaza for a long time.

I think that's why so many people here have not been knocked over by the sheer audacity of this project. Anyone that has ever vistied the inside of one of Galt House's guest rooms knows that things can get a hell of a lot worse.

i give it 3 1/2 Dangs!
this made me laugh hysterically

Cody02, it might surprise you to know that Memphis is my favorite downtown in Tennessee.

Memphis and New Orleans are the two Southern cities I would most want to see.

Cardpooch, you should see the renovations at the Galt House. The rooms are actually really nice.

I for one think that Louisville's downtown has made a dramatic turnaround, and with future projects like this and the arena (hopefully) to come Louisville would hopefully be an impressive city again.

someone started a museum plaza blog lol

http://louisville-museumplaza.blogspot.com/

pretty cool

Cardpooch, you should see the renovations at the Galt House. The rooms are actually really nice.

Yeah I was just down there last week. Now it looks like any other downtown hotel in anywhere USA.

In a way, I miss the old Galt House but I understand why they did the renovations.

I always thought it was cool the way the cocktail lounge had those windows looking into the bottom of the swimming pool....and of course not one, but two revolving restaurants up on the top floor.

what does it drill for oil or something?

simple answer.....no. ....

what does it drill for oil or something?

:lol:

I think he was actually serious....

Cody02, it might surprise you to know that Memphis is my favorite downtown in Tennessee.

I think a lot of people look at this design and wonder why would Louisville want to build something that looks like so many of the ugly buildings in their own city. Rather than explain the aesthetic qualities of Museum Plaza, I'll try a different approach.

The truth is that Louisville has always been a haven for freaks and rejects.

1960's The 800 Apartments: A classic example of cool one day, utter trash the next. In most cities, The 800 would have been severely remodeled or torn down by now. Thankfully, that has not happened. It has hung around long enough (luckily with no modifications) that with a little work it is begging to become retro chic.

1970's The Galt House: Talk about an embarrassing (and ugly) hotel. How ironic that it is the most famous hotel in the city. Even more popular than the Seelbach.

1980's Humana Building: This building might seem tame today but it wasn't when it went up in the early '80's. PINK GRANITE, you've got to be kidding me. And the whole spaceship temple crown is so........well nobody has really figured that part out yet.

1990's Waterfront Plaza: Here's a great idea. Let's design a building with a Chinese circus tent lighthouse motif. Even better, we'll build TWO. Priceless!

2000's Waterfront Park Place: I'll let my friend from Nashville explain this one:

'Wow, that's one ugly piece of sh*t'

Anyone noticing a trend here? Museum Plaza will be the latest in a long line of freak buildings that have found a home here. Most Louisvillians are proud of every one of these buildings (even Kaden Tower). And guess what, they all work well together to make Louisville more like....well, Louisville. Museum Plaza won't make Louisville's skyline one of the biggest in the U.S., but it will be one of the most unique. Different is good. Different is also beautiful.

It's funny because someone asked the architect if Louisville was ready for something like Museum Plaza. He responded that Louisville had been ready for Museum Plaza for a long time.

I think that's why so many people here have not been knocked over by the sheer audacity of this project. Anyone that has ever vistied the inside of one of Galt House's guest rooms knows that things can get a hell of a lot worse.

Well in that case I agree, I think that Museum Plaza should be built for Louisville. I always wondered why those two towers looked so weird, the Humana Building is ok although the first time I saw it that dome surprised me. I hope they build some more weird buildings around the Museum Plaza though. I guess each skyline is unique in its own way, Memphis: a bunch of boxes, and Louisville: a bunch of weird buildings. I wonder what we can classify Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, and all the rest as. :)

the masses speak

(velocity weekly)
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/56437501/original.jpg

Interesting to see that vs the %s at the skyscraper boards!

I wonder what we can classify Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, and all the rest as. :)

Classy.






















Sorry, I had to guys. LOL!!

Classy.






















Sorry, I had to guys. LOL!!
Ha Ha! I agree.

Museum plaza just doesn't do it for me but I don't have to live there and cringe at it as I'm driving in to work everyday so have at it.

Every city has its eyesore building, Around here, Atlanta has Georgia Pacific (yuck), Nashville has Bellsouth (either you love it or hate it....I love it), Charlotte has Hearst (love it or hate it...I like it okay). It appears that Louisville is so enthusiastic for a tall one that they'd take an ocean liner stood on it's end if it somebody would put it there. But they'll just have to settle for an oil platform unless the designers sober up from whatever they are taking.

^^

Of course, Louisville already has buildings that are already 'worse' than any of the buildings mentioned above. Precisely why this addition will not look as out of place as one might think.

Speaking of eyesores, congratulations to Museum Plaza for being awarded 'Eyesore of the Month'.

http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore.html

no offense..but who in the hell is James Howard Kunstler?

no offense..but who in the hell is James Howard Kunstler?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Howard_Kunstler

lol i bet he probably wrote that wikipedia article himself...

speaking of wikapedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Museum_Plaza

that was fast...

i was downtown today so i went back to the exhibit for some more shots. sorry for the copyrights, i batch frame all my photos and thecopyright is automatically added to each photo.

this was one of the previous deisgns

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263839/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263840/original.jpg

close up of the base
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263842/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263843/original.jpg

these were trial designs i suppose.
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263844/original.jpg

going east on the freeway...this will be an amazing view.
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263845/original.jpg

very close- close up...you can see little people in the windows lol
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263846/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263847/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263848/original.jpg

view from the south
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263849/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263850/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263852/original.jpg

looks like its angeled perfectly with humana and the aegon tower.
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263855/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263856/original.jpg

from the east
http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263857/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/soulbrotha4620/image/57263858/original.jpg

thats all folks

All of those designs are grotesque. I suppose you have to admire them for their consistency.

well you have to understand that none of them are finished. they were in the making.

This building is exactly what the futurists in 1970 thought ALL of our buildings would look like in 2006 :) ...and that we would all have flying cars.

Seriously, when this is completed it will be Lousivilles mark for better or worse. People will recognize the skyline solely for this building just like people recognize Seattle because of the Space Needle.

i'm going back to the exhibit this week. anyone up for a meet?

Is the exhibit like models and other stuff concering the 61?

^^
Yes. Its lots of photos and models and renderings of the tower.

http://www.museumplaza.net/

they finnally updated their website.

looks like things are moving along
---------------------------------
When the radical design for Museum Plaza was unveiled in February, it caused a stir in architectural circles worldwide -- the celebrity architect and urban thinker Rem Koolhaas was proposing an unusual skyscraper for Louisville.

In reality, Koolhaas had no role in the design. A young team of architects running his New York City office, headed by Joshua Prince Ramus, did all the work.

Now, Ramus, 36, and his co-workers, including Erez Ella, 35, are breaking from Koolhaas and his Office for Metropolitan Architecture (OMA) to form their own firm -- Ramus Ella Architects, or REX.

The split, being announced today, is effective immediately.

Though Museum Plaza will lose the star power of the Koolhaas name, the developers said it will not affect the proposed 61-story high-rise.

Groundbreaking is planned for early next year.

The developers recently announced they've hired Minneapolis-based Mortenson Co., which built the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, as construction manager.

"It's a nonissue to us," said Steve Poe, who is developing Museum Plaza with attorney Craig Greenberg and husband and wife Steve Wilson and Laura Lee Brown. "Our mission in the beginning was to find the new young, cutting-edge architect. … We hired Josh and his team. We didn't hire OMA, per se."

The split is amicable, said Ramus and a spokesman for OMA, headquartered in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

Ramus said that, over time, there was little connection between the New York OMA office and the headquarters in Rotterdam, other than Ramus and Koolhaas' personal and business relationship.

"It's a natural development," said Victor Van Der Chijs, OMA's managing director. The New York office -- 50 percent owned by Ramus and 50 percent by Koolhaas -- has been purchased by Ramus. The details weren't disclosed.

Van Der Chijs said OMA still will maintain an office in New York and will co-operate with REX on some projects.

In an interview with Business Week this year, Ramus hinted that there was some tension between Koolhaas and the OMA New York office, saying Koolhaas is not "always that comfortable with the way we work. … Either he's changed or we've changed."

Ramus also has tried to downplay the cult of star architects, or "starchitects," which he said is created by the media's obsession with celebrity.

He often reiterates -- as he did in Louisville when Museum Plaza was unveiled -- that no design is the work of one architect, but the collaboration of many.

Asked last week if there was tension between himself and Koolhaas, Ramus quickly answered: "No, not at all." So, too, did Van Der Chijs, who said the split shouldn't be seen as a "break up."

Poe said that he does not believe Museum Plaza loses anything by not having the Koolhaas name attached.

Wilson and Brown -- who first proposed building a contemporary arts center, which morphed into Museum Plaza -- always wanted to find the up-and-coming world architect and asked David Mohney, dean of the University of Kentucky College of Design, to create a list of names.

Koolhaas wasn't on the short list, Poe said.

But when the development team met Ramus, who won acclaim for the design of the Seattle Central Library, they were sold, Poe said.

Ramus agreed that the split does not affect Museum Plaza. "The project is as good today as it was yesterday," he said.

All 35 employees of OMA's New York office will go to work tomorrow as employees of REX. OMA will maintain a presence in the U.S., Ramus said, although where and how have yet to be determined.

Museum Plaza -- a $380 million project expected to include a contemporary arts center, lofts, luxury condos, hotel and office space -- will be REX's first high-profile project.

REX will take with it two other projects -- The Wyly Theatre in Dallas, and a science and technology building at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

In a telephone interview, Ramus said he knows the architectural world will be closely monitoring Museum Plaza, since it's REX's first project on its own.

Ramus joined OMA in 1996, fresh out of Harvard University's graduate architecture program. He opened New York's OMA office in 2001 and became a partner in 2002.

Since Koolhaas had no role in Museum Plaza, Ramus and his co-workers realized they could pull off large projects on their own, without Koolhaas.

Museum Plaza, Ramus said, "was the most clear example of where we were working rather independently. … This is the first project where it has been entirely autonomous."

Ramus' business partner, Erez Ella, is a native of Israel and a key designer on Museum Plaza. Ella joined OMA in 1999.

Ramus is a Seattle native who made a splash with the Seattle Central Library, which rethought the role of a library in society and designed a zig-zag glass jewel box.

Stanley Collyer, editor and publisher of Competitions, an architectural magazine in Louisville, said Ramus striking out on his own is not unusual. It is a bit unusual, however, Collyer said, that the split is occurring in the midst of a major project.

Still, Collyer said: "I don't think it matters. In this town, nobody knew who Koolhaas was anyway."

Reporter Chris Poynter can be reached at (502) 582-4475.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060514/BUSINESS/605140359

this is an old article

Museum Plaza developers name consulting firms

Business First of Louisville -

Print this Article Email this Article Reprints RSS Feeds Most Viewed Most Emailed
Developers of the planned Museum Plaza have named several consultants for the project.

The developers have set a target groundbreaking date of early 2007 for the $380 million downtown project.

M.A. Mortson Co of Minneapolis, has been named the construction managers for Museum Plaza, according to a news release.

The company has project operations in 47 states and multiple international locations. Its projects have included the Museum of Contemporary Art in Denver, the Metropolitan Tower in Seattle and the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, according to the release.

The Office for Metropolitan Architecture will continue to serve as the design architects for Museum Plaza, led by Joshua Prince-Ramus.

Houston-based Kendall/Heaton Associates has been named executive architects.

Magnusson Klemencic Associates, which formerly collaborated with the OMA team on the striking Seattle Central Library project, will serve as structural and civil engineers. The company is located in Seattle.

Consultants located in Louisville include Land Design & Development as associate civil engineers and AMEC as geotechnical engineers.

Other consultants that recently have joined the Museum Plaza team are Newcomb & Boyd, mechanical, electrical and plumbing engineers located in Atlanta; Front Inc., facade consultants, located in New York City; Persohn/Hohn, vertical transportation consultants in Houston; and Cermak Peterka Peterson, wind-study consultants in Fort Collins, Colo.

Museum Plaza is planned as a 61-story complex with two museums, a hotel, office space, condominiums and businesses.

It also will house a contemporary art museum and the University of Louisville's master of fine arts program. It will be located at the corner of Seventh Street and River Road downtown.
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2006/04/17/daily31.html?from_rss=1

great NY times article
---------------------------
Joshua Prince-Ramus Leaving Koolhaas's O.M.A. to Start New Architecture Firm


SITTING on a stiff couch at the Mercer Hotel in SoHo the other day, across the street from the Prada store he designed, Rem Koolhaas — the Dutch architect who has been called perhaps the most influential of his generation — was happy to talk about the huge television headquarters he is building in China or how his Seattle Central Library has been a turning point for his firm, O.M.A. (Office for Metropolitan Architecture).

Chester Higgins Jr./The New York Times
The architects Rem Koolhaas, left, and Joshua Prince-Ramus.
He had less interest in discussing the imminent departure of his partner sitting next to him, Joshua Prince-Ramus, who has been running O.M.A.'s American operations from its New York office. And no wonder: after a decade with the firm, Mr. Prince-Ramus is going out on his own and taking the entire 35-member New York staff with him.

"So little happened, it isn't even interesting to say this happened and this happened," Mr. Koolhaas said. "It is straightforward. We think it is in both our interests."

So, no hard feelings, no intrigue?

No, both men insist, their parting is simply a response to unfolding circumstances and an attempt to clarify issues of authorship and control. "It ultimately became a clear decision, but not an easy one," said Mr. Prince-Ramus, 36.

"The sadness is something we deal with in private," said Mr. Koolhaas, 61.

However sticky or smooth the situation actually is, it's one that a number of firms face, as younger professionals raised in the era of "starchitects" decide it's time to work under their own names. Can such partings be entirely amicable? Can a protégé ever really leave with his mentor's blessing? How do a senior and junior architect manage the division of clients?

Mr. Prince-Ramus will run his new firm with Erez Ella, 35, who joined O.M.A. in 1999, calling it Ramus Ella Architects, or REX. "In the spirit of a collaborative office, we will generally go by REX," Mr. Prince-Ramus said.

He has been the principal architect on three projects run out of New York — Museum Plaza in Louisville, Ky.; the Dee and Charles Wyly Theater in Dallas; and the Annenberg Center for Information Science and Technology in Pasadena, Calif. — and he will continue in that role. Milstein Hall on the Cornell campus in Ithaca, N.Y., will remain an O.M.A. project, with Mr. Prince-Ramus as part of the team.

"New York was always a separate entity," said Mr. Koolhaas, whose firm is based in Rotterdam. "Ramus has been leading that entity in a way that is very impressive, very successful.

"The issue becomes, how should that work be credited. On his part there is interest in sole credit for the work because he is sole author of the work. My interest is to clarify, so we don't get a blur between what is the work of Joshua Ramus and what is the work of O.M.A."

Mr. Prince-Ramus said: "It's an issue that as an office we're struggling with. Rem is very clear we're a partnership, and we have multiple voices. The media's desire to make everything about an individual doesn't reflect our reality."

"It's about a Darwinistic approach to ideas, not where they come from," he added. "The issue of authorship becomes less and less important."

Mr. Koolhaas's status in the design world makes the issue of credit a particularly difficult one. After winning the Pritzker Prize in 2000, he became one of the anointed architects for projects like the Prada stores, the Seattle library and the immense headquarters for China Central Television, now under construction in Beijing. But he said that he didn't seek this status, that stardom had been pressed on him by a media culture that craves major figures. "In America the cult of celebrity makes the reality of a partnership harder to maintain," he said.

Many architects who got their start with him have gone on to establish successful firms, including Winy Maas of MVRDV; Bjarke Ingels and Julien De Smedt, who ran PLOT together before going their separate ways this year; Farshid Moussavi and Alejandro Zaera Polo of Foreign Office Architecture; and Xaveer de Geyter in Belgium.

"There's a kind of worldwide network of ex-O.M.A.'s who are working really well," said Dan Wood, who left in 2003. "It's a testament to Rem's ability to hire the right kind of people."

Mr. Wood had a rocky break with O.M.A., which he left to start Work Architecture with his wife, Amale Andraos, also an O.M.A. alum. "It was very difficult because we had a quite intense relationship over a long time," said Mr. Wood, who worked closely with Mr. Koolhaas for 10 years. "I do feel he felt I was letting him down. We've since reconciled. It kind of worked itself out after a few years." He added, "At the time, it's not how I wanted it to end."

more (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/arts/design/14pogr.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1)

After a recent visit to Chicago, I think I might have found the perfect hotel tennant for MP. A new Sofitel Hotel recently opened there and it is the perfect upscale contrast to the Seelbach or Ritz style hotels. I noticed that a lot of the guests there seemed to be international tourists and not everyone was there on business.

In many ways, the spa like quality of Sofitel mimmicks a lot of the components that have been put into the 21C project only on a much larger scale. Museum Plaza would be a great location for a hotel chain such as this one that is relatively new in the US market and wants a 'landmark' building in it's resume.

Normally, these chains wouldn't even consider Louisville as a location. However, MP is a unique opportunity and Kentucky offers a different experience from the typical 'big city' fast paced urban centers that so many of these hotels are located. There's a lot more to America than NYC, Miami, Chicago, and LA and a lot of international tourists want to experience those other locations. They just need a reason to go there and feel that they're not sacrificing comfort in the process.

Bingo. Museum Plaza is the culture they're looking for. Sofitel is the comfort they expect and Derby is a good reason to go. Who knows, they may like it so much that they might buy a condo before leaving town and make Louisville a new home for part of the year.

Here's a link to the Chicago location

Sofitel Chicago (http://www.sofitel.com/sofitel/fichehotel/gb/sof/2993/fiche_hotel.shtml)

One thing I can say with GREAT confidence is, while Signature in Nashville is much taller and traditionally more attractive, MP has it beat in cool factor.
I mean geeeeeeeeez, I watched the video on Sig's website and they're making it up like some sort of retirement center / cheezy dream home in the sky.
Its kinda killed some of the buzz about that building for me. Soooo damn old hat and almost suburban feeling.
MP feels really modern, upbeat and cutting edge. I like Signature, but they can keep it in Nashville.
That video reminded me why Louisville is great. Its truly breaking away from normal and paving a path for new and greater things.

^^ it'd be funny if they actually chose that hotel card talked about

One thing I can say with GREAT confidence is, while Signature in Nashville is much taller and traditionally more attractive, MP has it beat in cool factor.
I mean geeeeeeeeez, I watched the video on Sig's website and they're making it up like some sort of retirement center / cheezy dream home in the sky.
Its kinda killed some of the buzz about that building for me. Soooo damn old hat and almost suburban feeling.
MP feels really modern, upbeat and cutting edge. I like Signature, but they can keep it in Nashville.
That video reminded me why Louisville is great. Its truly breaking away from normal and paving a path for new and greater things.


Is a "versus" thread in order eweezerinc? LOL!!! Sales will break over 100 units sold by the end of the weekend. That is 100 units sold in ONE WEEK. Seems like the video works fine along with all the cheesy stuff that goes with it.

can't anyone say anything these days?

anywho...chalk up another big article
------------------------

Way Up and Far Out

Plans for Fanciful Skyscrapers Proliferate;
Are Some Too Eccentric to Lure Tenants?
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7340/mkag144skyscr200604182033538ic.jpg
Artists' renderings of Museum Plaza, Louisville, Ky. (far left); Moscow City Tower (near left); and (above) China National Tobacco Co. Guangdong's new headquarters.

By ALEX FRANGOS
Wall Street Journal


Challenging traditional notions of what tall buildings are supposed to look like, developers around the world have unveiled a flurry of new skyscraper designs in the past few months.

A tower in China owned by a tobacco company is shaped like a cigarette pack and will breathe in air to push turbines that will power the entire building. A plan for a tripartite spire in Moscow aims to be not only the tallest building in Europe, but also the only modern skyscraper with a natural ventilation system. Another design, in Louisville, Ky., looks like a three-legged chair with a 22-story diagonal elevator that accesses a "floating island in the sky" art museum.

To some big-building watchers, the over-the-top swoops and curves reflect a top-of-the-market mentality as global real-estate tycoons pour money into notoriously difficult-to-build stylized symbols of ego and economic strength. "Skyscrapers are always a function of good economic times," says Carol Willis, founder of New York's Skyscraper Museum.

See a video presentation for the Museum Plaza proposal.The good times include a robust and global high-end residential market in major cosmopolitan cities. For the first time, many of the tallest buildings being built include apartments for the well-heeled. Strong economies in Asia and the U.S., as well as oil-fueled booms in the Middle East and Russia, are also driving the soaring spectacles.

A flush market has made often risk-averse, contractors more willing to take the plunge on a project that doesn't look like anything they have built before. "The big contractors are becoming more adventurous, going for a challenge," says David Scott, a skyscraper engineer with the London-based firm Arup and chairman of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat, a sort of skyscraper-designer trade group.

Advancements in design technology, construction techniques and steel and concrete fabrication also give the financiers shelling out for these symbols in the sky a little more leeway in paying for pizzazz. The island part of Louisville's Museum Plaza, for example, will be built at ground level and lifted 220 feet with the type of massive jacks that have been used to install weighty retractable roofs on football stadiums.

The shimmering Moscow City Tower, in the Russian capital's planned financial district, would rise from an unusual Y-shaped base into narrow blades that taper as they reach 118 stories -- nearly 2,000 feet -- above the ground. The tower, which has been dubbed by its developer, STT Group, a "vertical city for 25,000 people," will include apartments, a hotel, offices and leisure space. It is expected to cost $1.5 billion and be completed as early as 2010.


Artists' renderings of Museum Plaza, Louisville, Ky. (far left); Moscow City Tower (near left); and (above) China National Tobacco Co. Guangdong's new headquarters.
The architects, London-based Foster & Partners, led by Norman Foster, say it will be the world's tallest "naturally ventilated" tower, reducing heating demands in frigid Moscow winters by 20%. Rain and snow harvesting will supply 30% of the water for sinks and toilets.

In Guangzhou, China, state-owned China National Tobacco Co. Guangdong's new headquarters will be an undulating rectangle. It won't be the tallest in town, but it is aiming for a lofty goal: having zero net impact on energy consumption. Gill-like gaps in the facade will "inhale" wind that will propel turbines to produce electricity.

A tobacco-company icon inhaling air as a way to clean the environment? "It is ironic, no question," says Thomas Kerwin, managing partner at the Chicago office of architects Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, which won a competition to design the tower. "But it's a very profitable company and in some ways, one could say they are trying to put their profits to good use." This is the first time a skyscraper will strive for full energy independence, he says. "Is it too ambitious a goal? One might say that, but it's something we should be striving to achieve."

He says making a tower green is a bigger challenge than making it tall, something Skidmore knows all about. It's also building the Burj Dubai, a residential condominium and hotel in Dubai, which is set to top 2,300 feet. The developer, Emaar Properties, won't divulge the actual height for fear that competitors will try to break it.

"Height doesn't seem to be a problem," says Mr. Kerwin. "Engineering feats are becoming commonplace. ... Pushing the envelope from a sustainability perspective is more difficult. We're still in relatively new territory. Systems aren't tested fully."

The most atypical skyscraper scheme out there is the Museum Plaza in Louisville, designed by Office for Metropolitan Architecture's New York branch. It could be mistaken for an agglomeration of several towers on stilts, connected in the middle by the three-story "island" 22 stories up. It will house a 50,000-square-foot contemporary-art museum and lobbies for offices, hotels and loft condominiums that will be perched in three finger-like towers that emerge from the top of the island. Visitors will access the island through an elevator that leans diagonally against the side of the building.

Joshua Prince-Ramus, the lead architect, says the plan was born from the "backwards" nature of the development. Instead of the commercial aspects driving the project, the museum is the main focus. The other moneymaking uses are there to support it. Physical constraints including a narrow site, a 15-foot-high flood wall that protects the area from the Ohio River and a massive electrical trunk line underneath the site forced Mr. Prince-Ramus to lift most of the building off the ground.


The skyline of Louisville, Ky., in a photo altered to include the planned Museum Plaza (tall building at far right); the project is estimated to cost $380 million.
"It has a rawness, an awkwardness to it that's really beautiful -- like the gap between Lauren Hutton's teeth. It keeps your attention," says Mr. Prince-Ramus.

Museum Plaza is the brainchild of Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson, local contemporary-art aficionados and rural-space conservationists. The couple own a significant share of Brown-Forman Corp., maker of Jack Daniel's Whiskey and Southern Comfort.

The duo wanted a downtown space for modern art that would draw people into the city. To finance the $380 million project, they joined with hotel developer Steve Poe, who recently built a Marriott hotel in downtown Louisville, and Craig Greenberg, a local attorney. They also hope to get $80 million in tax increment financing from the city and state, which is supported by the mayor and governor.

For all the grand plans of these and other developers around the world, experience indicates many of the proposed projects will never break ground. The history of skyscraper design is littered with never-realized, stalled or half-completed projects. The Moscow City Tower is the second stab in recent years for a supertall structure there; the first never got off the ground for lack of financing.

The fate of Louisville's Museum Plaza will depend on a host of unknowns that include landing a hotel operator and residential and office tenants, who might prefer to be in more-traditional structures. China National Tobacco has better prospects since its developer also plans to occupy the building.

Once completed, tall buildings have a checkered past in terms of attracting tenants. The Twin Towers in New York were partially empty for years after construction and needed a state bailout to keep them solvent. The Empire State Building was nicknamed the "Empty State Building" for its inability to attract tenants.

A skyscraper under construction in China illustrates the challenges in making tall buildings a reality. Japanese developer Mori Building Co. unveiled the Shanghai World Financial Center in the mid-1990s. After a 1998 groundbreaking, work was halted because of the Asian financial crisis. Then the design, which included a circular void at the top to help stabilize the structure on windy days, irked the Chinese who thought it evoked the round sun of the Japanese flag. That caused further delays. After several redesigns, the circle became a trapezoid, and the building by New York architecture firm Kohn Pedersen Fox is finally rising out of the ground.

Ms. Willis of the Skyscraper Museum says the curves, bends and contortions of today's tall buildings echo a skyscraper boom -- and eventual bust -- in the late 1920s. While many famous spires went up before the 1929 stock-market crash, she says there were "many more announcements for the tallest building or eccentric designs, some brightly colored, that never got built.

Is a "versus" thread in order eweezerinc? LOL!!! Sales will break over 100 units sold by the end of the weekend. That is 100 units sold in ONE WEEK. Seems like the video works fine along with all the cheesy stuff that goes with it.
No Lex, sorry I didnt mean for it to come off like that. But watching the process of the two towers as they get closer to construction kind of mirroring eachother automatically makes me compare them. Simply because they are both two big-dog southern projects. And honestly, when that final design for signature came out, I went holy crap. Natural reaction of DAMN "Wish it were in my city."
But the kind of approach Sig is taking has turned me off. Twas all I was saying. Not a VS thing at all. That would basically be the worst idea in the history SSC.
Think of the blood shed....

Think of the blood shed....

LOL! I can only imagine. I personally hope both projects get started and finish soon.

^^
I really want to see Signature completed because going down to Nashville on 65 will be a COMPLETELY different experience. And I want to see what it will actually look like lit up at niight. Sure to be one hell of a gemstone, I must say. :okay:

hmmm, i dont really like it. i think it's ugly as sin. but it certainly will add to the skyline of louisville which is spectacular. i always love to see progress and construction even if i don't think the design is all that good.

The new website is very nice. Check it out. :okay:

http://www.museumplaza.net/

After a recent visit to Chicago, I think I might have found the perfect hotel tennant for MP. A new Sofitel Hotel recently opened there and it is the perfect upscale contrast to the Seelbach or Ritz style hotels. I noticed that a lot of the guests there seemed to be international tourists and not everyone was there on business.

In many ways, the spa like quality of Sofitel mimmicks a lot of the components that have been put into the 21C project only on a much larger scale. Museum Plaza would be a great location for a hotel chain such as this one that is relatively new in the US market and wants a 'landmark' building in it's resume.

Normally, these chains wouldn't even consider Louisville as a location. However, MP is a unique opportunity and Kentucky offers a different experience from the typical 'big city' fast paced urban centers that so many of these hotels are located. There's a lot more to America than NYC, Miami, Chicago, and LA and a lot of international tourists want to experience those other locations. They just need a reason to go there and feel that they're not sacrificing comfort in the process.

Bingo. Museum Plaza is the culture they're looking for. Sofitel is the comfort they expect and Derby is a good reason to go. Who knows, they may like it so much that they might buy a condo before leaving town and make Louisville a new home for part of the year.

Here's a link to the Chicago location

Sofitel Chicago (http://www.sofitel.com/sofitel/fichehotel/gb/sof/2993/fiche_hotel.shtml)


Sofitel is run by accor hotels....isnt that just the people who own Motel 6? I dunno, it seems nice....but I think Louisville really needs to land a marquee hotel name here. I have no doubts they will go after the highest end hotels they can and will only settle for a unique and luxurious name.

One thing I can say with GREAT confidence is, while Signature in Nashville is much taller and traditionally more attractive, MP has it beat in cool factor.
I mean geeeeeeeeez, I watched the video on Sig's website and they're making it up like some sort of retirement center / cheezy dream home in the sky.
Its kinda killed some of the buzz about that building for me. Soooo damn old hat and almost suburban feeling.
MP feels really modern, upbeat and cutting edge. I like Signature, but they can keep it in Nashville.
That video reminded me why Louisville is great. Its truly breaking away from normal and paving a path for new and greater things.
Been to both cities many times. Nashville has the edge on "cool" by a "country mile". That said you can't judge Signature Tower on that silly video which I admit is awful. If you poll 1,000 people in major cities, ask them to choose between MP and Sig for their cities, I would bet 90% or more would choose Signature tower. Not only for its height but for its look. Face it, most people think MP is ugly. Will it grow on us? Who cares. It is your building and you have to look at it every day.

In fact, let's start a poll if mods will allow it.

Been to both cities many times. Nashville has the edge on "cool" by a "country mile". That said you can't judge Signature Tower on that silly video which I admit is awful. If you poll 1,000 people in major cities, ask them to choose between MP and Sig for their cities, I would bet 90% or more would choose Signature tower. Not only for its height but for its look. Face it, most people think MP is ugly. Will it grow on us? Who cares. It is your building and you have to look at it every day.

In fact, let's start a poll if mods will allow it.

Of course people are going to pick Signature Tower. Because It's 'cooler'? LOL! is that even a word.

No. It's because it's a prettier building (in many respects) that could be built in virtually any city in the US. What's so 'cool' about that?

Louisville has a history as a large urban area that dates back over 100 years (a long time by US standards). It already possesses a wealth of traditionally beautiful buildings. Been there, done that, now let's move on.

If places such as Nashville and Atlanta want to copy successful buildings from other cities, that is fine. However, that will never let them be seen as a trendsetter in architectural circles.

lol, if plasticman says so Nashville must be 'way cooler'. Please tell us all why Nashville is so cool.

As somebody that has lived in both I find it hard to say which city is 'cooler'. I guess it depends on what you are looking for since they are quite different cities.

Been to both cities many times. Nashville has the edge on "cool" by a "country mile". That said you can't judge Signature Tower on that silly video which I admit is awful. If you poll 1,000 people in major cities, ask them to choose between MP and Sig for their cities, I would bet 90% or more would choose Signature tower. Not only for its height but for its look. Face it, most people think MP is ugly. Will it grow on us? Who cares. It is your building and you have to look at it every day.

In fact, let's start a poll if mods will allow it.



Why does everyone have to always start slamming other cities. No one said anything about Louisville being better than Nashville....so why did you have to throw a little slam in?

Nashville is no cooler than Louisville, a similar sized city. Like Cashville said, they are similar sized but two totally different cities. Nashville with all its country music has the ability to make Louisville look Midwestern when in fact it really is not.

I also believe Nashville cannot compete with Louisville neighborhoods, architecture, and restuarants. Part of this has to do with Louisville being a major city in its early history while Nashville has only recently emerged. However, I do think there are more entertainment options in Nashvegas with all the recording industry and way more bars that play live music. They are both midsized cities with strengths and weaknesses. I have never met a perfect mid sized city, and there are very few perfect big cities either with regards to urbanity (ok maybe NYC!)

Been to both cities many times. Nashville has the edge on "cool" by a "country mile".

Give me a friggin break! But you're from Atlanta, so your definition of cool is probably quite different than someone from Louisville, St Louis or Cincy.

A compilation of my favorite images, models and renderings:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPday.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPnight.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPstill3.jpghttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPstill2.jpghttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPstill1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPfrom.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPdown.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPlights2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/MPlights.jpg

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20060219&Category=SCENE05&ArtNo=602190341&Ref=V2&Profile=1047&MaxW=500&title=1

a new rendering i made

http://upload.pbase.com/abdulsharif/image/62339699/medium.jpg
http://upload.pbase.com/abdulsharif/image/62339699/original.jpg

People at first were really complaining about the gap between MP and the skyline, but I think if it were pushed up with the current skyline, it wouldn't fit right. I'd rather see the skyline build to MP.
There has been some work done and small changes made on the website recently, I think the "Discover Museum Plaza" section should be completed soon, so watch for it. I think its going to be the most in-depth information on the project we'll see so far.

shouldn't that site be updated by now? is the funding for MP in the new budget?

shouldn't that site be updated by now? is the funding for MP in the new budget?


Huh? This is totally a private development. The funding is from Laura Lee Brown and her bank :)

The state and city promised to provide much needed flood and infrastructure improvements in that area, which they were going to do anyways, along with expanding river road west into Shippingport.

But if the building is to break ground in 2007, shouldn;t that infrastructure work start asap?

Huh? This is totally a private development. The funding is from Laura Lee Brown and her bank :)

.

the money still has to be approved
--------------------------


Labor debate worries Museum Plaza developers

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



After watching a union bargaining clause nearly kill Louisville’s downtown arena project, developers for a proposed 61-story skyscraper fear they could be next.

Developers for the $380.million Museum Plaza project worry that the Louisville Metro Council could attach a labor agreement guaranteeing unions bargaining power when it is asked to approve millions of dollars in funding.

Council members were unwilling yesterday to rule out such labor agreements for Museum Plaza or any other project, although they say the $450.million arena project is unique because of the amount of public funding involved.

“I don’t anticipate every project that ever comes up again being a … fight” over labor agreements, said Rick Blackwell, D-12th, a labor supporter who heads the council’s budget committee.

The arena at Second and Main streets would hold University of Louisville basketball games and other events, such as concerts and NCAA tournament games.

Blackwell and Republican Kelly Downard hammered out a tentative arena labor deal last night that would allow unions to review construction terms but wouldn’t give them bargaining power.

But Museum Plaza’s concerns remain.

A labor agreement guaranteeing unions bargaining power on their project might shut down Museum Plaza because it could become too expensive to build, project officials said.

They said they already are spending nearly $1.million a month on engineering, architecture and other services before construction begins in the first half 2007.

“We would reconsider moving forward with Museum Plaza if the Metro Council enacted any legislation that we felt would increase the cost of the project,” said Steve Poe, one of four developers in Museum Plaza.

Joe Wise, secretary-treasurer and business manager of the Greater Louisville Building and Construction Trades Council, said there should be a labor agreement giving unions bargaining power for Museum Plaza.

Wise believes the agreements are needed for large, complex construction projects, saying they benefit contractors by having one set of work rules.

“We’ve already started conversations with those folks (with Museum Plaza) and we have talked about a project labor agreement — but, then again, that’s a private project,” Wise said.

Poe’s concerns about labor agreements are backed up by at least two recent studies.

After investigating more than 100 school construction projects in New York since 1996, researchers at Boston’s Suffolk University concluded in April that labor agreements increase costs about 18 percent.

Another study released this spring found that a labor agreement for renovating four facilities in Des Moines, Iowa, failed to meet its budget or finish on time.

Council member David Tandy, whose downtown district includes the proposed site of Museum Plaza at Seventh and Main streets, said he can’t envision a scenario in which labor provisions would be added to Museum Plaza.

The project’s $380.million cost will be largely financed by private sources, including income from a planned hotel and offices and the sales of lofts and condos. Poe and developers Laura Lee Brown, her husband, Steve Wilson, and Craig Greenberg will contribute an undisclosed amount of money.

The city and state will be asked to kick in about $75.million from new local and state taxes received at Museum Plaza.

Museum Plaza officials say they are committed to paying prevailing wage and surpassing the city’s goals for women and minority businesses. And they say they have reached out to union members because the project will require highly skilled workers.

Poe, a prominent Louisville businessman, also was the lead developer in the downtown Marriott. That project was completed on time and on budget last year without using a project labor agreement, and nearly 91 percent of workers on the hotel were union, officials say.

“If prevailing wage will be paid, everybody will be on equal footing,” Poe said.

A rendering I tried:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/WeezerChips/MPrendering.jpg

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/project/uploaded_files/362_museumplaza.jpg

my favorite pic yet

Whoa! Did OMA put that out?
Or is that the original design that they recycled when it wasn't built in China?
I would love it if the museum lit up red at night. Or changed colors like the top of that one building in HK. :D

WOW.. I HOPE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT WHEN ITS FINISHED. !!!!

:lol:
It's funny to go back and look at us in the dark, thinking we would have something around the size of the Humana Building, and not realizing what an internatial topic MP would become.

http://www.courier-journal.com/assets/B26998811.GIF

Whoa! Did OMA put that out?
Or is that the original design that they recycled when it wasn't built in China?
I would love it if the museum lit up red at night. Or changed colors like the top of that one building in HK. :D

Not a recycled version of the hyperbuilding... this is the rendering of the finished product... not put out by OMA but by REX after Ramus split from Koolhaus

Thats awesome!
I have been wondering about that though.. Is Ramus overseeing MP still with his firm? Or is OMA?

It looks absolutely horrible..

how'd you come to stumble in here? just curious.

Thats awesome!
I have been wondering about that though.. Is Ramus overseeing MP still with his firm? Or is OMA?

Ramus is still overseeing the building with his new firm.

how'd you come to stumble in here? just curious.

Why do i have to "stumble" in here? Just cuz your so... curious.
I saw that there was a 61 story tower proposed for Louisville in the main section as it was highlighted and thought it was a different proposal at the time. Then upon seeing the pictures of this new building again I don't know, i guess I felt compelled to critique it.
Different strokes for different folks i guess. Sorry for "Stumbleing" into your sub forum.

I felt compelled to critique it.


To "critique" something is to analyze it. Usually giving both positive and negative attributes.

What you did was "insult", which is fine, but at least don't say you were critiquing the building or giving any sort of unique insights into the design.

And apology accepted.

here is a list of all the players that will be behind Museum Plaza. A lot of people probably don't realize how much they are doing behind the scenes. Most people won't beleive this will get built untill it is approved, but i think this list proves the project is moving along smoothly.
-------------------------------------------------------------

-M.A. Mortenson Co., of Minneapolis, has been named the construction managers for Museum Plaza, according to a news release
The company has project operations in 47 states and multiple international locations. Its projects have included:

the Museum of Contemporary Art in Denver
http://rda.rice.edu/contentimage/Adjaye.jpg

the Metropolitan Tower in Seattle
http://www.ckcps.com/images/lg_vert_metro.jpg

and the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles
http://www.artexcursions.com/images/concerthall.jpg

according to the release.


-Houston-based Kendall/Heaton Associates has been named executive architects.

-Magnusson Klemencic Associates, which formerly collaborated with the OMA team on the striking Seattle Central Library project, will serve as structural and civil engineers. The company is located in Seattle.

-Consultants located in Louisville include Land Design & Development as associate civil engineers and AMEC as geotechnical engineers

-Other consultants that recently have joined the Museum Plaza team are Newcomb & Boyd, mechanical, electrical and plumbing engineers located in Atlanta; Front Inc., facade consultants, located in New York City; Persohn/Hohn, vertical transportation consultants in Houston; and Cermak Peterka Peterson, wind-study consultants in Fort Collins, Colo.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-article-a-33135-m-61-sc-83-museum_plaza_developers_name_consulting_firms-i

It looks absolutely horrible..

thats nice. now run along little girl.

just another hater

just another hater

yeah, its jealousy more than anything.

Guys, MP is one of those ideas that you either love it or hate it. I can't stand it but may change my mind if I'm actually standing in front of it. So I'd get used to the positive/negative spin on the project.

My personal opinion is it is some designer trying too hard to be artsy for the sheer sake of being artsy. But....we'll see it later and who knows.