cont'd from Buffalo Development News III...

Projects Planned or Underway Downtown

Office
Cobblestone Lofts- Office Bldg. UC
Delaware, 591- Renovation UC
Delaware, 599- Renovation UC
HealthNow Headquarters UC
High Street, 23- Aids Comm. Services UC
Swan Bldg., 731 Main Street UC
WNY MRI Center- expansion UC
Century Centre- Trico Bldg. Reno. PL
Court Street Tower PL
Courtyard Mall Renovation PL
Delaware, 285 PL
New Era Center- Delaware Ave. PL
Seneca Street, 100- Renovation PL
Uniland- N. Genesee Block PL
Total: 1,953,000 sq.ft.

Other
Bioinformatics Center UC
Inner Harbor Excavation UC
Auto Museum- Wright Gas Station PL
Bass Pro Shop (old Aud) PL
Children's Museum- 173 Elm Street PL
City Centre Ramp Expansion PL
Donovan Building Parking Ramp PL
ECC Classroom Building, Oak Street PL
ECC Dorms, Oak Street PL
ECC Parking Ramp/Transit Center PL
Federal Courthouse PL
Roosevelt Historic Site Carr. House PL

Residential
Buehl Block Bldg. Reno (5 Units) UC
Granite Works (29 Units) UC
IS Lofts (24 Units) UC
Pierce Building, 651-3 Main (4 Units) UC
ArtSpace (50 Units) PL
Birzon Building (10 Units) PL
Brownstone Condos (6 Units) PL
Cobblestone Lofts (36 Units) PL
ECC Lofts- Ellicott Street (16 Units) PL
Elk Terminal- New Lofts (48 Units) PL
Ellicott Commons II (36 Units) PL
Greystone Hotel (30+ Units) PL
Hager Mills Lofts (32 Units) PL
Main Street, 456- Baker Shoes (12 Units) PL
Packard Bldg. (40 Units) PL
RiverPlace Homes, Waterfront Vill. (12 Units) PL
Saturn Rings Bldg. (25 Units) PL
Schmidt Lot Condos (36 Units) PL
Seneca Paper Lofts (30 Units) PL
Spa Lofts (2 Units) PL
Waterfront Village- Ellicott Dev. (80 Units) PL
Webb Building (30 Units) PL
YWCA North St- Sr. Apts. (65 Units) PL
Under Construction: 62
Planned: 596

Hotels
Bass Pro Complex Hotel PL
Corn Exchange--- Ramada Plaza PL
ECC Boutique Hotel PL
Franklin, 204- Boutique Hotel PL

Other
Bass Pro Shop (old Aud) PL

Hotels
Bass Pro Complex Hotel PL


Why do I get the feeling, that we'll be opening "Buffalo Development News 29" before that one ever comes to fruition? Is it just me? Sometimes it seems like we'll have a second NHL team playing in the Aud before that ever happens.

aren't the Cobblestone lofts already "UC" and past the "PL" phase?

aren't the Cobblestone lofts already "UC" and past the "PL" phase?

The office portion is UC, the residential portion starts later this year.

Why do I get the feeling, that we'll be opening "Buffalo Development News 29" before that one ever comes to fruition? Is it just me? Sometimes it seems like we'll have a second NHL team playing in the Aud before that ever happens.

because no matter how fast they get the project done WNYers run their mouths more than anyone on this forum!

^not more than Philly forumers, but close

^^ They've been sitting for well over a year on that now with almost no progress. What reminded me of it was hearing about the leader of FreeBuffalo (?) complaining about it on the radio yesterday. Look how many other cities have gotten proposals in the meantime, and seem to be showing more progress. At least Memphis and Pittsburgh seem to, I don't know about any others but there may be more.

those other stores are all in their typical suburban format. The Buffalo store is a completely new urban form. They have never done anything like it to date

From what I have heard the Pittsburgh (Washington PA) Bass Pro has somewhat unraveled and is far less certain than the Buffalo project. The problem in Buffalo is the PILOT while the problem in PA is the tax incremental financing that Bass is looking for. The naysayers in PA are trying to get the whole project put up to a public referundum.

But here is the plan, by the way notice that the subsidy amount in PA is almost the same as in NY:

The TIF will be used to finance $52.2 million in public infrastructure work. The Washington County Redevelopment Authority will float $27.2 million in bonds to finance the installation of sanitary sewer lines, power line relocation and road work.

The TIF allows developers of a Bass Pro Outdoor World to defer 80 percent of the real estate taxes to paying off most of the TIF debt. Developers would pay off almost half of the debt with a special development assessment known as a Neighborhood Improvement District.

Developers said they wouldn't build in the township without the TIF. Mr. Danen said Premier Properties USA will own and maintain its property, with a full-time staff, to avoid being an absentee landlord

I don't understand what they get in the Pit area by aiding suburban sprawl.

Lots planned and going on in downtown Buffalo! I don't get that Bass Pro stuff? Is the Aud still idle?

What's your definition of "lots?" :D

^^^ "lots" meaning in comparison to the previous 25 years.
we all realize that compared to larger, newer, and healthier cities that many of these projects would be considered less than noteworthy but for buffalo this is the first time in decades there has been a significant increase in renovation let alone new development.


Lots planned and going on in downtown Buffalo! I don't get that Bass Pro stuff? Is the Aud still idle?

yeah the aud is still idle. it does bring alot of memories to people as they go by.

Many of the projects discussed in this thread, taken individually, would seem "less than noteworthy" in NYC, Chicago, or LA. That much is true, Veryprotourism. However, collectively, these projects are very significant because they signal a trend that would be noticeable anywhere. The successful revitalization of downtown Buffalo is finally underway, and its very apparent. You're right that another 38-unit apartment building in Manhattan means absolutely nothing. But the addition of hundreds of residents in the downtown core of Buffalo, which has been happening every year, is making a significant impact on our city--and it's worth the discussion.

500 apartments in Buffalo is equivalent to 5000 apartments in NYC per capita

hate to ask this question but does anyone have any figures on the new indian casino in dt buffalo?

I don't understand what they get in the Pit area by aiding suburban sprawl.
Washington the City and County both are struggling economically having lost much industry over the years. It is a misnomer to consider it a suburb of Pittsburgh as the Bass Pro is not even going to be located in Allegheny County. To put it in Buffalo terms Washington, PA is more akin to Niagara Falls, NY than it is to Amherst, NY.

but it is proposed to be in a suburban style setting from what I understand

Yes the actual store will be in a suburban style setting and construction but the county itself is not suburban economically, in economic terms Washington County is inner city. You could say that Pa. is spending $50 million dolars to encourage sprawl while NY is spending $50 million to discourage it. Here is a bit from the original press release:

The huge outdoor development would be located at the intersection of I-79 and Racetrack Road in Washington County if several key factors are achieved.

"Development in the Washington County region can be complex. The mining industry has presented certain challenges, and rezoning and infrastructure costs are paramount to our ability to move forward with this development," says Michael Dunham Bass Pro Shops Director of Real Estate.

A master plan could include a 200,000 to 250,000 square foot Adirondack lodge-style outdoor store with indoor boat showroom and restaurant. The outdoor themed development may also include indoor/outdoor shooting ranges, indoor/outdoor archery ranges, an ATV test track, a nature park, a sportsmen's lodge style hotel, and more. Bass Pro Shops would also develop supporting retail stores, restaurants, attractions and exhibits to compliment the outdoor attraction.

What's your definition of "lots?" :D

Lots as in "many", a large quantity, not parking lots, Buffalo doesn't need anymore of those. :D I need to work on my vocabulary.

^^ Yeaaaah. We gots lots o' lots, no matter what your definitions of lots or is are.

How's that for some world-class grammar...

The huge outdoor development would be located at the intersection of I-79 and Racetrack Road in Washington County...
I was just there a month and a half ago, there's a Waffle House just to the east of that interchange. I don't know about to the west, but I personally wouldn't classify that area as urban, though I don't think it fully classifies as suburban, either. It's more of an undeveloped, old semi-urban area, (as is all of the area between Pittsburgh & Washington), an area where growth maybe stalled out a long time ago. You're about 4 miles outside of the fringe of all the suburban housing developments where the "true" suburban (as I see it on a map) begins.

I still don't see how this Buffalo project is going to be such a huge draw when there are other locations in various places. Almost like the casino, I don't see who it's going to draw from the outside. But unlike the casino, I agree with those who say this is a true "anchor" to the waterfront development, and as such, let's get moving! (Not to mention more tax $ for the city, an area where the casino is notably lacking.)

I still don't see how this Buffalo project is going to be such a huge draw when there are other locations in various places.

Trust me, Bass Pro shoppers are incredibly loyal (and borderline culty) about their stores. I may have mentioned this a year or two ago when this topic first came up, but people I worked with out in California were diehard Bass Pro shoppers. They would fly to four or five different stores a year and stay in their hotels and shop for days. If anything having one in Buffalo along with one in Auburn and Toronto could help each other out. People can visit all three in one day if they wanted, and all three are different. I'm telling you, people visit these stores like they were Disneyworld. I was just as skeptical as everyone else on this Northeast forum until I actually visited the one in St. Louis and met/talked to the Bass Pro enthusiasts.

^^ Yeaaaah. We gots lots o' lots, no matter what your definitions of lots or is are.

How's that for some world-class grammar...

Actually, if my city that I just moved from was building stuff at the pace of downtown Buffalo, I'd be sobbing... :D

But I know what you guys are getting at.

it's so sad here

Trust me, Bass Pro shoppers are incredibly loyal (and borderline culty) about their stores. I may have mentioned this a year or two ago when this topic first came up, but people I worked with out in California were diehard Bass Pro shoppers. They would fly to four or five different stores a year and stay in their hotels and shop for days. If anything having one in Buffalo along with one in Auburn and Toronto could help each other out. People can visit all three in one day if they wanted, and all three are different. I'm telling you, people visit these stores like they were Disneyworld. I was just as skeptical as everyone else on this Northeast forum until I actually visited the one in St. Louis and met/talked to the Bass Pro enthusiasts.
That's what I've heard, too. I guess it's one of those see-it-to-believe-it sort of things.

There's a "stranded with Cash Peters" on the Travel Channel right now where he is in Buffalo, they went to Niagara falls, the Anchor Bar. Just though I'd share that. lol It's making me very nastolgic for WNY right now.

Has anyone seen renderings of the new 80 room Wyndham Hotel planned for Elmwood and Forest?

80-room hotel is planned for Elmwood


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5-story building to sit at corner of Forest

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
2/15/2006

An Amherst developer wants to build an 80-room boutique hotel on Buffalo's Elmwood Strip.
Savarino Construction Services Corp. has unveiled plans for a five-story structure - to be called the Elmwood Village Hotel - on the southeast corner of Elmwood and Forest avenues. The developer is holding talks with the Cendant travel group to locate the Buffalo area's first Wyndham hotel at the address.

Savarino has signed a purchase contract with Buffalo businessman Hans Mobius, who owns the five properties from 1109 to 1121 Elmwood Ave., to assemble the project site. The existing structures - residences with local retailers on their ground floors - would be demolished.

The hotel would be a new anchor for the northern gateway to the Elmwood Strip and fill a lodging void in that section of the city, said Eva Hassett, Savarino vice president for strategic initiatives. "We saw a huge opportunity to bring something to the Elmwood Village that will make sense and bring a service that's currently not available," Hassett said. "Elmwood is such a wonderful place to eat, shop, walk and spend time. We believe this project will add to that vibrant environment."

The proposal calls for construction of a $7 million, 45,000-square-foot hotel that would front Elmwood Avenue, featuring 4,500 square feet of first-floor retail space. Parking for more than 50 vehicles would be under the structure, with a handful of surface spaces in the rear.

The top floor of the brick building would be set back, reducing its scale and providing the upper guest rooms with private terraces. Rooms on lower floors would feature recessed balconies. Architect Karl Frizlen said his goal in designing the building was to come up with a structure that will "blend with the fabric" of Elmwood Avenue.

The first floor of the building - which will house hotel operations, a small cafe and one or two retail shops - will be fronted with large windows to create "transparency" between the building and the streetscape.

The current timetable would see the project get under way in the upcoming spring/summer construction period, with completion within nine months.

While representatives of Forever Elmwood and various city officials have been consulted on the proposal, Savarino also will stage a community session to get input from residents, business owners and others, Hassett said.

"So far, everyone who has seen our plans has reacted very positively to the design and the use," she said. "But we're willing to work with the community to make sure this is something that really works for the Elmwood/Forest area."

Justin Azzarella, executive director of Forever Elmwood, said he's excited about another mixed-use project being proposed for the street but said it is ultimately up to neighborhood residents to weigh in on the project. "We think it could be great for Elmwood Avenue, but we're remaining neutral until we take it to the public and get their reaction. Nothing is set in stone yet," Azzarella said.

The hotel project means the homes of some longtime local retailers will be razed. Patty Morris and Nancy Pollina have been operating Don Apparel, a vintage clothing store, at 1119 Elmwood, for nearly 14 years. Morris said she had heard rumors about a hotel but has not received direct information from her landlord.

Morris and her business partner will weigh the options of finding a new home on Elmwood Avenue, relocating to Hertel Avenue or just going out of business.

Michael Faust, who has operated Mondo Video, an alternative video store at 1109 Elmwood, since 1995, also faces an uncertain future. "To be honest, business has not been great, so I have been considering my options," Faust said. "The problem is, the people who do come here really, really like it, so I feel like I'm performing a public service of sorts. I can't easily just walk away from it."

Other affected businesses include Skunk Tails Glass, at 1113 Elmwood, and HOD Custom Tatoo, at 1115 Elmwood.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8673/elmwoodhotel5ft.jpg

Anyone have a pic of this one?


Uniland Development Co. has taken a major step forward with plans to build a multi-tenant office building in downtown Buffalo.

The Amherst-based developer has selected an architect and is expected to start construction later this spring on a 116,800-square-foot office building at 285 Delaware Ave.

Uniland selected Hamilton Houston & Lownie of Buffalo to design the multi-tenant office building slated for a vacant parcel located next to WGRZ-TV.

The parcel is about a block away from another site that Uniland and local businessman/restaurateur Mark Croce are hoping to construct into a mixed-use building.

Hamilton Houston & Lownie was selected from a design competition Uniland ran last fall. The competition was open to local architecture and design firms.

Uniland wanted to "create a landmark building that transcended eras, trends and styles," company officials said.

While no tenants have been signed for the five-story building, Uniland will be starting construction on the facility this spring. The building should be completed within the next 12 months.

"There is a lot of interest, so we expect to start one way or another," said Nancy Dobson, Uniland executive vice president.

The project carries an estimated $12 million development price tag. The project includes 33-car below surface parking lot.

Anyone have a pic of this one?


Uniland Development Co. has taken a major step forward with plans to build a multi-tenant office building in downtown Buffalo.

The Amherst-based developer has selected an architect and is expected to start construction later this spring on a 116,800-square-foot office building at 285 Delaware Ave.

Uniland selected Hamilton Houston & Lownie of Buffalo to design the multi-tenant office building slated for a vacant parcel located next to WGRZ-TV.

The parcel is about a block away from another site that Uniland and local businessman/restaurateur Mark Croce are hoping to construct into a mixed-use building.

Hamilton Houston & Lownie was selected from a design competition Uniland ran last fall. The competition was open to local architecture and design firms.

Uniland wanted to "create a landmark building that transcended eras, trends and styles," company officials said.

While no tenants have been signed for the five-story building, Uniland will be starting construction on the facility this spring. The building should be completed within the next 12 months.

"There is a lot of interest, so we expect to start one way or another," said Nancy Dobson, Uniland executive vice president.

The project carries an estimated $12 million development price tag. The project includes 33-car below surface parking lot.

I do! I do!
But you'll have to check Buffalo Rising tomorrow morning! :nono:

You'll show us tomorrow, who are you, Dick Cheney?

You'll show us tomorrow, who are you, Dick Cheney?

Here's a sneak peak:

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8981/285delaware4hp.jpg

Thanks! Now I know what it will look like to someone with glaucoma.

What's with this trend (today) of new construction with subsurface parking?

Did someone somewhere actually grow a brain cell or three?

on the bass pro, casino, and mediocre attractions in buffalo in general.
all of these things could and should have their viability enhanced by proximity to an attraction such as niagara falls.
one of the biggest complaints ive heard from people visiting the region is that the american side of the border has little to do short of shopping at malls.
things like the casino, bass pro(and other specialty retailers), indoor waterparks(like in NF, ont.), walking tours of buffalo's architectural history, etc. may not be significant draws on their own, but when coupled with a visit to the falls, they only add to an already memorable experience. more than that they can entice people visiting the region to spend some of their money on this side of the border.

I personally am sick and tired of watching niagara falls, canada slap up building after building to support their ever growing tourism market well we stand idle scratching our head wondering why we can't fill the budget motels in buffalo-niagara. i watch niagara wine region gain international recognition amongst the culinary communiy while WNY is still known for little more than the chicken wing and bad winters. i wonder to myself 'why not us?' and 'what did we do wrong?'

canada didnt create niagara falls. it didnt introduce it to world. it was not their idea to make it a tourist attraction. what canada did do is encourage spending. it found ways to capitalize on peoples hard earned vacation savings, to send them home with a little less in their pockets. it created attractions, for adults and kids alike, so when all the picture taking is over they could continue to enjoy time with(spend money on) their families.
buffalo-niagara needs to capitalize on niagara's already massive status as a major attraction. it may be unreasonable to think that we can greatly increase the number of visitors to the region(atleast in the short term)but we certainly can play off of what ontario has built in their niagara region and grab our peace of the proverbial pie.

Thanks! Now I know what it will look like to someone with glaucoma.

:eek2:

It looks better zoomed out, promise!

Oh my god. WTF is going on with all this good news for Buffalo. Here's another article from Business First of Buffalo:

Uniland readies for Delaware Ave. project
James Fink
Business First

Uniland Development Co. has taken a major step forward with plans to build a multi-tenant office building in downtown Buffalo.

The Amherst-based developer has selected an architect and is expected to start construction later this spring on a 116,800-square-foot office building at 285 Delaware Ave.

Uniland selected Hamilton Houston & Lownie of Buffalo to design the multi-tenant office building slated for a vacant parcel located next to WGRZ-TV.

The parcel is about a block away from another site that Uniland and local businessman/restaurateur Mark Croce are hoping to construct into a mixed-use building.

Hamilton Houston & Lownie was selected from a design competition Uniland ran last fall. The competition was open to local architecture and design firms.

Uniland wanted to "create a landmark building that transcended eras, trends and styles," company officials said.

While no tenants have been signed for the five-story building, Uniland will be starting construction on the facility this spring. The building should be completed within the next 12 months.

"There is a lot of interest, so we expect to start one way or another," said Nancy Dobson, Uniland executive vice president.

The project carries an estimated $12 million development price tag. The project includes 33-car below surface parking lot.

Lots of good development news today between the Uniland building, the hotel and the art center. I think this looks like it'll be a real nice addition:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060215/1071184.asp

Between the artspace building, Ani DiFranco's artist space and HQ and this center, Buffalo is really living up to it's reputation as an arts destination.

:runaway: Now, if we can just get it together as far as servicing the visitors to our area. Remember the college hoops debacle - hmmm - was it last year? Folks couldn't find a place to eat. And, look at the number of restaurants we have in the area!

:runaway: Now, if we can just get it together as far as servicing the visitors to our area. Remember the college hoops debacle - hmmm - was it last year? Folks couldn't find a place to eat. And, look at the number of restaurants we have in the area!

they used to be serviced on Chippawa. Now that aarea is a hip nightlife spot :)

The new 285 Delaware Avenue design by Uniland can be found here:

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/02/285_delawow_avenue.php

^^ does the 12 million dollar pricetag on this seem a little small to anyone else?

Buffalo area housing market got off to a red-hot start in 2006.

Figures released from the Buffalo Niagara Association of Realtors show across-the-board increases in all relevant categories including sales and prices.

BNAR said there were 742 single-family homes sold last month, 17 percent higher than January 2005 when 635 such transactions were recorded.

The median and average prices of a home were up 4.8 percent and 2.9 percent, respectively. The median home price climbed to $94,375 from $90,000 while the average price rose to $116,885 from $113,495. Total dollar volume for the month jumped 20.2 percent to $86.7 million from $72.1 million.

Check out Lockport's downtown rebirth.

http://207.57.18.243/Pictures/11.htm

Southwest Airlines business in Buffalo is taking off.

Again.

The low-cost carrier, who in less than five years has become the busiest airline at Buffalo Niagara International Airport, will be adding an air cargo component to its local offerings.

Southwest's air cargo service is slated to start in May.

"Buffalo has been a growth market for us and now when expect it to be on the cargo side," said Edna Ruano, Southwest spokesman.

Southwest (NYSE: LUV) has been subcontracting air cargo services on its planes since the airline arrived in Buffalo in late 2000. As is the case in many of its markets, Southwest will now book air cargo directly for its own flights.

The cargo will fly with luggage in the airplanes along regularly scheduled Southwest routes.

"This is a good sign for Buffalo and the strength of the market," Ruano said.

To handle the air freight, Southwest has leased 6,463-square-feet of office space at the Air Cargo Buffalo operations along Cayuga Drive and the airport's western border.

"That Southwest is adding air cargo operations is clearly a reflection of their growing presence in Western New York," said William Stark Jr., Ciminelli Development Co. chief investment officer and treasurer.

Air Cargo Buffalo was built and developed by Ciminelli.

^^ Ahh, Ciminelli. We do alot of work for them. Biggest pains in the asses in the world. And cheap bastards too. Them and Cimato. Watch out!

This has been a pretty solid week though, all things considered. Let's hope it continues to gather steam going into the spring...

^haha yeah we do a lot of work w/them too, they are a pain in the ass...so is Benderson and Paladino...we've had serious ethics issues with all of them (especially Benderson), but they pay well and do a lot of large projects through us.

Two just-shuttered Media Play stores in the Buffalo area will come back to life as Trans World Entertainment outlets this spring.
The Syracuse-based music chain, which operates FYE (For Your Entertainment) stores in the Walden Galleria and Boulevard Mall, plans to set up shop in the former Media Play stores at 6743 Transit Road, in Clarence, and S-3701 McKinley Parkway, Hamburg.

"These were two good locations and will get us into new areas in the Buffalo market," said John Sullivan, Trans World's executive vice president and chief financial officer.

Trans World, which operates some 800 stores around the U.S., was the successful bidder for six Media Play leases in a recent federal bankruptcy court auction. In addition to the two local stores, the central New York company also snared four former Media Play sites in Salt Lake City.

Sullivan said no final decision has been made regarding which of its formats it will bring to the new stores. In addition to FYE, the company also operates
music/entertainment outlets under the Coconuts and Planet Music banners.

Like Media Play, Trans World stores offer a wide variety of audio and video items. The stores do not sell books.

The Media Play stores, which are more than 40,000 square feet in size, are significantly larger than a typical Trans World store, which averages 6,000 square feet. However, the company does operate a 45,000-square-foot FYE store in suburban Rochester.

Trans World is expected to acquire additional Media Play sites next month when more of the leases are put on the auction block. The financially-troubled Musicland Holding Co., the parent firm of Media Play, is seeking bankruptcy court approval to sell off 340 of its retail leases, including its Sam Goody and Suncoast Motion Picture stores.

Musicland, which filed for Chapter 11 protection, shutdown its entire, 81-store Media Play chain at the end of January. In addition to the Clarence and Hamburg stores, Media Play had also operated stores in Cheektowaga, Amherst and Niagara Falls.

The Minnesota-based retail company expects to emerge from bankruptcy with approximately 400 stores.

Area home sales increase 16.9% in January

Home sales in the Buffalo Niagara region are starting 2006 with a bang.
The Buffalo Niagara Association of Realtors reports 742 residences were sold last month, the highest number for the month of January in over a decade. The sales represented a 16.9 percent increase over January 2005, with 635 homes were sold.
The revved up market also shows dramatic movement from December, with a 42.4 percent leap from the 521 homes sold in the final month of the 2005.
Miriam Treger, president of the realtor group, said it's a strong market for buyers and sellers.
"People have a lot of choices in a lot of price ranges," Treger said. "It's a more comfortable market so buyers don't have to jump so quickly, but there's not a glut of homes, so sellers are fine, too. We're still seeing multiple offers."
The median residential sales price, which means half sold for more and half for less, climbed 4.9 percent last month, from $90,000 in January 2005 to $94,375 last month. The average home price went up 3 percent, from $113,495 to $116,885.
On the upper end of the sales scale, there were eight residences which sold for more than $500,000.
Carole Holcberg, president of Buffalo-based Holcberg Limited Real Estate, said she feels "strong momentum" at the start of 2006.
"It was not a typical January where we usually see sellers hang back and wait until spring. It felt more like a March or April," Holcberg said, crediting the unusually warm winter weather, in part, for driving the extra activity.
She also noted a higher than normal volume of home shoppers at open houses in the past month, especially for houses in the $150,000 to $350,000 range.
"I see no indications of a slowdown. I think we're seeing the start of what could be a record spring and summer sales season and a really strong year," the realtor added.
Locally, 2005 was a strong year overall, with the highest volume of sales in 10 years.

Several area developers may bid for Trico building

----------------------------------------------------------
Property is part of McGarvey estate

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Business Reporter
2/20/2006

The former windshield wiper plant at 791 Washington St. could be auctioned off if no one pays the back taxes.

The late Stephen B. McGarvey struggled for years to keep up with property taxes on the former Trico windshield wiper plant and the other Buffalo properties he planned to redevelop.
Now a year after his death, the problems of unpaid taxes and development inertia persist.

According to Buffalo Assessment and Taxation Commissioner Bruna Michaux, McGarvey's estate currently owes the city $343,009 in back taxes and penalties. Three of his eight Buffalo properties are slated to be auctioned by the city in October due to non-payment of taxes dating back to 2004.

"He's back on the "in rem" list again," Michaux said. "He's current on a couple, but owes 2005-2006 taxes on most of them, and is two years behind on the three others."

Among the properties that could be auctioned off if no one steps forward to pay the tax bills is the sprawling wiper plant at 791 Washington St.

The complex, which totals more than 700,000 square feet of space, includes a large six-story manufacturing building and a four-story structure. McGarvey acquired the buildings in 1999 with ambitious plans to convert them to a mix of residential and commercial space, but financial difficulties blocked his progress.

The other two McGarvey properties which will be auctioned off this fall if property taxes remain unpaid are: 589 Ellicott St., a five-acre parking lot adjacent to the idle industrial complex, and 821 Washington St., another parking lot.

This marks the third time the properties have faced the possibility of public auction to recoup back taxes. On the eve of the October 2002 auction a court issued a stay of sale so he could work out a repayment plan. In 2004, McGarvey faced a pile of unpaid city property taxes totaling $491,909. Those tax bills were brought up to date just ahead of the planned auction.

McGarvey died last February following complications from a childhood accident which left him paralyzed. At the time of his death, the Erie, Pa.-based entrepreneur had been working with Amherst's Ciminelli Development Co. toward a $40 million joint effort to bring the sprawling former windshield wiper plant back to life.

Ciminelli Chief Executive Paul Ciminelli said despite the local company's continued interest in converting the two main Trico buildings to office use, McGarvey's complicated estate, which faces numerous debt claims, has stymied any development.

"At this point there's no way to get clear title. That's an insurmountable problem in getting in there to do what needs to be done there," Ciminelli said. "It's a shame. It's an intriguing redevelopment opportunity."

In fall 2004, Ciminelli announced it would assume a 50 percent ownership stake in the Trico complex leading to a $40 million transformation of the buildings into state-of-the-art office space. In addition to retrofitting the buildings, they also planned to develop a huge parking garage on the surface lot at 589 Ellicott St.

The Trico site, which has been remaned Century Centre I, has long been viewed as a diamond in the rough due to its expansive floor plans which could accommodate tenants requiring as much as 80,000-square-feet per floor.

The combination of large "suburban style" floor plans, on-site parking and proximity to the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus could make the refurbished space a hot ticket on the commercial real estate market.

However, time, weather and deferred maintainance have taken a toll on the Trico buildings, which have state and national historic landmark status. A portion of the roof on the six-story building is now gone, leaving the structure open to the elements.

McGarvey had faced heat from former Buffalo Mayor Anthony M. Masiello who put the languishing properties on a list of city buildings whose potential was being needlessly sapped by owner neglect. Masiello threatened eminent domain proceedings to end the redevelopment stalemate, but backed down when Ciminelli entered the picture.

McGarvey's Signature Management LLC, which had handled his properties here and in Erie, Pa., has been replaced by Altair Management LLC, also based in Erie, as the firm in charge of day-to-day oversight of the real estate portfolio.

Altair General Manager Chuck Peters acknowledged that resolution of McGarvey's estate remains a hurdle in figuring out the next step for the Buffalo properties.

"The estate has been working with several interested parties to determine the best outcome, including sale of all of Steve's Buffalo portfolio or individual properties," Peters said.

The manager also said it is unlikely they'll end up on the block at the city's tax foreclosure auction.

"I'm pretty confident there will be some form of resolution before next fall. I can't imagine these properties will end up in a tax sale," he said.

Local commercial real estate sources said several Buffalo area developers have toured the buildings and are likely to put in offers when the McGarvey estate is in a position to sell.

In addition to the Trico complex, McGarvey's holding also included the former M. Wile plant, now called Century Centre II, at 77 Goodell St. The developer was successful in converting that building to office use and it is 70 percent leased.

-The Buffalo News

High taxes - what a surprise. Gag.

^ but not nearly as bad as California, so atleast we have that going for us (as a state)

studies have been done, we pay more taxes than california, maybe not directly, but indirectly thru fees, fares, surcharges, taxes, ect ect ect...

NY tops the list of something...the wrong thing.

It depends entirely on how you determine Real Estate Property Taxes. If you compare the taxes on $250,000.00 home then yes we are the highest. However if you compare taxes on identical (carbon copy) homes then we are not close to being the highest. The study I saw used taxes on a $250,000.00 home and showed NY to be the highest tax. To be accurate they should use taxes on the median home price in each metropolitan area. This way you are more likely to be comparing taxes for similarly sized homes in similar neighborhoods. When you do it on this basis WNY is not even in the top ten of total taxes for the 50 largest metro's.

Please... I own a 2300 square foot, 4 bedroom house in Nashville, TN and the property property taxes on it are in the vicinity of $1400 per year. It's a lovely house -- five years old, large wooded lot, two car garage, etc.

I'm about to close on a house here in Buffalo (Cheektowaga) that is 1,379 square feet with a tiny lot -- the taxes on it are $4200 per year!

Insane. In this case, you pay for what you DON'T get.

studies have been done, we pay more taxes than california, maybe not directly, but indirectly thru fees, fares, surcharges, taxes, ect ect ect...

NY tops the list of something...the wrong thing.

ur right nobody beats NY in "user fees" and other hidden taxes. I should've been clearer in my post on taxes, i was referring to state income tax. Out in California on the same wage as here in NY I paid 9-10%, here in NY i pay 5%. So half the income tax in NY as in Cali for my pay bracket.

I like Tennessee... no state income tax :D

ur right nobody beats NY in "user fees" and other hidden taxes...
New Hampshire is worse. No income or sales tax, so the entire burden is essentially on local and state property taxes. And the amount of subversive taxes is ridiculous. You can only take so much having to pay in excess of $500/yr just to register you car. That alone eats up about 25% of what I give up in income tax here.

BTW I noticed that the sunday News BuffaloJobFinder section seemed to have engineering jobs all over the place. Many more than when I was looking just under a year ago. Maybe it's just perception, but maybe it's a positive sign.

BTW I noticed that the sunday News BuffaloJobFinder section seemed to have engineering jobs all over the place. Many more than when I was looking just under a year ago. Maybe it's just perception, but maybe it's a positive sign.
I noticed the same thing!...when i was job searching over the summer and fall there would be one maybe two listings...then when i was looking at it this weekend there were 10-20 listings, and many had huge ads, however there was only one in my particular field of engineering. But nonetheless engineering is engineering, and its definitely good to see more of those types of jobs available.

Please... I own a 2300 square foot, 4 bedroom house in Nashville, TN and the property property taxes on it are in the vicinity of $1400 per year. It's a lovely house -- five years old, large wooded lot, two car garage, etc.

I'm about to close on a house here in Buffalo (Cheektowaga) that is 1,379 square feet with a tiny lot -- the taxes on it are $4200 per year!

Insane. In this case, you pay for what you DON'T get.

But what is the cost of the house? Do they have the same assessment?
Maybe TN is an exception and I am in no way saying our taxes are low. But are we the highest taxed in the nation? Not even close when you factor in all taxes including personal property taxes. Is there a personal property tax on your car in TN?

Here is something I saw on the Rochester thread about property taxes in Virginia.

Not the fastest growing city in the country by a long shot, Charlottesville proper has actually declined by 1,216 since census 2000 to a total of 45,049. The surrounding counties have grown by a very healthy percentage during that same time frame. The total metro for the city and four surrounding counties has increased from 183,942 in 2000 to an estimated 191,169. A healthy growth rate of 3.9%.

I love the city but it is still very small and isolated. Unless you are connected to UVA there is not a lot going on there. Even with the growth it is still a one horse town. one major employer UVA and one major commercial district Rte 29.

Plus it is becoming very expensive to live there. One of my friends lives in the City proper in a 2 bed 1 bath 900 square foot ranch home on a small lot built in the early 1950's. Her property tax bill for last year was $2,900 and does not include garbage pickup which cost her and additional $150.00 per quarter. Ten years ago her property tax was only $600.00. Same thing for my parents in Albermarle they have gone from $500.00 when they bought the house in 1991 to $3,000.00 today for a 3BR raised ranch. This also does not include garbage fees of about $500.00 per year or homeowners association fees of $125.00 per quarter.
You probably made a wise decision in not moving there. I know, I left.

Please... I own a 2300 square foot, 4 bedroom house in Nashville, TN and the property property taxes on it are in the vicinity of $1400 per year. It's a lovely house -- five years old, large wooded lot, two car garage, etc.

I'm about to close on a house here in Buffalo (Cheektowaga) that is 1,379 square feet with a tiny lot -- the taxes on it are $4200 per year!

Insane. In this case, you pay for what you DON'T get.

I do not believe the tax you are quoting for Cheektowaga. I have a 2,400 sq ft 4BR 2.5 bath home in the Starpoint district and my tax is $3,465. And this includes Garbage pickup which BTW is extra in Davidson County, TN (I checked)

You forgot to mention these other TN taxes such as the 6% sales tax on food, the local income taxes and the personal property taxes. Why did you forget them?

$ Sales tax

• Generally, the state's sales and use tax rate is 7 percent.

• Food remains taxed at 6 percent, but candy, dietary supplements and prepared food are taxed at the increased 7-percent rate.

• Local sales taxes also are collected and those rates vary from 1.5 percent to 2.75 percent.

$ Personal and real property taxes


• Assessments are based on a percentage of fair market value of the property as of each Jan. 1, the required percentage varying according to statutory classifications based on actual or potential use:

Residential property at 25 percent
Farm property at 25 percent
Commercial and industrial property at 40 percent
Public utility property at 55 percent
Business personal property at 30 percent

• Tax rates are expressed as an amount per $100 of assessed value and are set by the governing body of the county or city. The delinquency date is generally March 1 following the tax year, but some cities have earlier delinquency dates by private act or local ordinance

• Depending on the location of the residence, the homeowners will be assessed property taxes from the city only, the city and the county, or the city, the county, and a special School/Fire District rate. For a full list of 2004 rates, click here.

$ Intangible personal property taxes

• Intangible personal property is assessed on the shares of stock of stockholders of any loan company, investment company, insurance company or for-profit cemetery companies.
• The assessment ratio is 40 percent of the value multiplied by the tax rate for the jurisdiction.
• File Form RV-0378, Report of Dividends Paid.
$ Inheritance and estate taxes
• Tennessee imposes an inheritance tax on decedents' estates that exceed maximum single exemption limits.
Because of the phase-out of the federal estate tax credit, Tennessee's estate tax is not imposed on estates of persons who died in 2005.
• For more information, contact the Tennessee Department of Revenue at (615) 741-3580 (Taxpayer Services) or at the Web site.

hey jerome, where in the starpoint school system do you live? Pendleton? There is a 286-single family housing subdivision going to start construction over there in the next 5 or 6 months.

But what is the cost of the house? Do they have the same assessment?

The house in Nashville assesses for $137,700. The home in Cheektowaga assesses for $114,000 but is zoned for Depew Schools.


Maybe TN is an exception and I am in no way saying our taxes are low. But are we the highest taxed in the nation?

Yes.


Is there a personal property tax on your car in TN?

I paid the one time state sales tax of 7% when I bought my car in Nashville a few years ago. Nothing more since, and to renew my tags every year, it's about $55.

TN's gas tax is also much, much lower, at 21.4 cents/gallon vs. New York's 45.7 cent/gallon.

I do not believe the tax you are quoting for Cheektowaga. I have a 2,400 sq ft 4BR 2.5 bath home in the Starpoint district and my tax is $3,465. And this includes Garbage pickup which BTW is extra in Davidson County, TN (I checked)

Read it and weep.

http://www.buffaloniagarahomes.com/property/Detail_1.cfm?ID=251283&table=singlefamily&open_house_search=NO&src=bnh

You forgot to mention these other TN taxes such as the 6% sales tax on food, the local income taxes and the personal property taxes. Why did you forget them?

Huh? Nashville/TN has no local income tax or personal property taxes whatsoever.

The sales tax in the city of Nashville/Davidson County is 9.25%, but Erie County's is 8.75%. Big difference? Nope, especially considering that Nashville lacks the any income taxes and so called "user fees."

For Tennessee:

Personal Income Taxes

Salaries, wages, Social Security, IRAs and pension income are not taxed. A 6% tax is levied on stock dividends and interest from bonds and other obligations. The first $1,250 in taxable income received by a single filer is exempt ($2,500 for joint filers).

NY better never ever go to paying a yearly tax on your car's value...although i know for a fact it will happen at some point, hopefully my boy Furor Spitzer won't be the one doing it...they did that b.s. tax when i was living in Cali, luckily i never register my car there, and just left it registered in NY.

BTW, tax burden per state:

New York:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/471.html

Ranking:

State/local tax burden (out of 50): 2
Federal tax burden (out of 50): 5
Total tax burden (out of 50): 2



Tennessee:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/481.html

Ranking:

State/local tax burden (out of 50): 47
Federal tax burden (out of 50): 31
Total tax burden (out of 50: 48

Another important point:

The median household income for the Nashville MSA is $53,700.

The median household income for the Buffalo MSA is $43,065.

Lower taxes + higher salaries = definite more bang for the buck


Where does all this money go that NYS collects? I am a liberal Democrat, but to me, New York just seems...wasteful. The governmentservices here are no better here than they were in Tennessee, and down there, we seemed to get more "bang" for our buck.

I can't believe I'm defending Nashville...

I hope nobody is defending NYS tax policy here in this forum...by no means in comparrison with any other state can NYS be defeated in this aspect.

New Hampshire might have higher property taxesm but no income tax, NY...we get all of them, Income, property and sales...no matter how you look at it, we are getting taxed more than others to live here, not just own property.

My own opinion is that NYS is going to fail so miserably because it runs the working middle class out, decorates the lakes for the rich and gives everything to the poor.

you do the math.

BuffCity, Buffalo is making me a fiscal conservative :lol:

we might not top the list there, so we are 2nd, but I can promise you all that by the end of the year, you pay more to NY than whats given in those two options...in fees, surcharges, ect ect.

I'll bet you NH is 50th on that list of national tax burdens. But until you try making a living on it, don't argue against me.

Not to make light of our situation, as it is ridiculous, my colleague who moved from Fresno/Sacramento has the same opinion. Bang-for-buck it was worse in CA, living in a tiny tract house with no land, lousy schools, etc. He says he doesn't mind it one bit here, in fact wished he moved sooner.

Also, keep in mind, low property taxes don't mean jack if you can't afford to buy a house in the first place, one department where we're far better off than most other areas. I see that as the second component to causing a brain drain. We already need help in jobs, but what if we had jobs up the ying-yang but no kids could afford to make it? Is that really any better?

As for arguing sales tax, you're also on your own. As long as we're going to laud NH's tax spending, let's celebrate another NH hallmark - frugality - Don't buy as much. What does it amount to, maybe 0.5% of your yearly pay? As if most people wouldn't piss that away by some other means. I was sick of people in NH telling me that moving back here, the sales tax was going to kill me. As if I never lived with one before, and as if $0.17 on a cart of groceries is going to kill me. Cry me a river. Guess what, I'm still alive. And my health care is cheaper, too, in case that same $0.17 I dropped at Wegmans yesterday comes back and gives me a coronary.

As for the gas tax, that's one I hope goes up. Sorry, it's for the public good. The only thing I don't like about the cost of gas is the oil company profits. Besides the fact I'm sick and tired of always being behind some fatass FUV (F'in Useless Vehicle - acronym is not my creation) not being able to see what's happening on the road in front of me. Let him pay. I like it when they're filling up as I pull up, I pay and drive off, and he's still standing there. Some social status statement.

But as I said, I'm not arguing our situation isn't bad. It's quite bad, in and of itself. But just the same, there's more to life than taxes. When I finally buy a house, I'll be happy to spend $5000 on taxes, rather than losing $9-10k in rent, money I'll never see again and can't deduct in any form on my Fed taxes. In NH, that's all I would have ever known, and let's not forget that rents there were increasing 10-15%/year.

A collapse is just what this state needs. As if the 1980s glory Cuomo years didn't already cause that. Or about 10,000 Satish Mohans. But I'm not counting on the latter happening, ever.

Read it and weep.

http://www.buffaloniagarahomes.com/property/Detail_1.cfm?ID=251283&table=singlefamily&open_house_search=NO&src=bnh



How much extra do you pay for garbage pickup in TN? I pay zero.

How much do you pay for water per quarter in TN? I pay $65.00 per QUARTER. My brother in Venice pays 140 per month.

Apparently you did not read the entire page. In the paragraph below it states that the basic star (which everyone gets) reduces the tax by $668.00 which brings the tax down to $3,861. plus there are proposals to expand the STAR program this year. This of course is outrageous for a ratty looking home like that. Why would anyone buy such a place when you can get a 2,400 sq ft home in the much better Starpoint district for $139,000.00 on a 1/3 acre lot with taxes about $400.00 less.

If you bought the place in the picture, in the Town that the Buffalo News said will become Buffalo's first black suburb, you are the one that should be weeping, not me. Don't blame me or NY if you are not an educated consumer.

BTW - 9.25% sales tax on groceries - wheew. We spend about $190.00 per week on groceries for ourselves and our three kids that works out to$913.90 in sales tax in TN versus zero in NY per year. Also do not forget that state income tax is deductible on Federal Return,so at my tax bracket about 34% of my State Income taxes are refunded by the Federal government compared to none of your sales tax on groceries. Plus the feds are picking up $1,200 of my local property taxes compared to only $400 of yours. On the same income you will pay a much higher federal income tax if you live in TN compared to if you live in NY and itemize.


From www.bestplaces.com


To maintain the same standard of living, your salary of $50,000 in Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York should increase to $51,163 in Nashville, Tennessee
Stated another way, it's 3.0% more expensive to live in Nashville, Tennessee than Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York

from salary.com

Employers in Nashville, TN typically pay 5.8% less than employers in Buffalo, NY. Therefore, if you take the same type of job in the same type of company in Nashville, TN you are likely to earn $47,109 compared to $50,000 in Buffalo.

I would like to thank my wife a real estate agent for helping me gather this information.

I guess on the topic of taxes in NYS, the lesson to be learned is stay away from the suburbs. I own a 2200 square foot house literally steps away from Chippewa Street, with a driveway, garage, and courtyard. It is a brick Victorian house built in the 1860s. It has original leaded glass windows, 13 foot ceilings, and amazing original hardwood floors. The rest of the house, unfortunately, has been "updated" so a lot of the other woodwork is gone. Except for the front hall staircase and banister. Don't get me wrong, though, it was tastefully updated, and in really good condition. How much are my property taxes? Just over $1100, and with the STAR exemption, only about $1000/year. That's so low compared to most places, at times I feel like I robbed a bank. Of course I don't have a prestigious Cheektowaga adress, but I love living in the West Village. And before someone points this out, I will go ahead and admit one point. If I was going to have kids, then I'd have to worry about the school system. There's no way I would put a kid through public school, so you'd have to add the cost of tuition for a private school into those costs. But for people who are young, single, retired, gay, or otherwise not at risk of producing offspring, the city is a great place to own a home.

The historic Calumet Building on West Chippewa Street in downtown Buffalo could be in for new ownership and a major overhaul.
Longtime owner Mark Goldman confirmed he's in talks with real estate entrepreneur Anthony Kissling to sell the historic structure, known for its detailed terra cotta facade.

According to Goldman, Kissling, who owns numerous residential and commercial properties in Buffalo and New York City, is interested in adding floors to the three-story structure to develop upscale residential space.

"He's got quite ambitious plans for the Calumet, and I just don't have the ambition or desire to do more than I already have. It's time for new energy I guess," Goldman said.

Kissling declined to comment, but Goldman said he has a sale contract with the prospective buyer that will expire at the end of March.

"He's doing his homework, and we'll see what happens next month," Goldman said.

Goldman, who bought the building in 1988 for $305,000, did extensive repairs to its elaborate terra cotta facade, which features elaborate patterns in glazed cream and burnt sienna tile work.

In addition to restoring one of Buffalo's architectural gems, Goldman is credited with kicking off the transformation of West Chippewa from a rough and tumble corridor to Buffalo's entertainment centerpiece by opening the Calumet Arts Cafe on the building's ground floor in 1990.

"I still have strong ties to the building. It's a beautiful, wonderful thing, no question about it," Goldman said.

Designed by Esenwein & Johnson, the Art Nouveau structure, located at the corner of West Chippewa and Franklin streets, is celebrating its 100th birthday this year. The building's unusual facade features an extravagant display of terra cotta stalks and leaves that seem to climb up the face of the building to meet rows of sunflowers at the cornice.

The name Calumet, which is spelled out in tile relief above one entrance, is a reference to a long-stemmed ceremonial pipe used by Native Americans. The building's stem designs resemble those on the pipes.

After purchasing the then-derelict building, Goldman had the building's steel frame restored and had damaged and missing sections of the terra cotta replicated by Boston Valley Terra Cotta.

The ground floors are currently tenanted by Bacchus, a wine bar and restaurant operated by Steve Calvaneso, as well as the Third Room and La Luna, run by Goldman's son. Goldman himself has changed streets, swapping Chippewa for Allen a few years back and converting the former Allen Street Hardware store to the Allen Street Hardware Cafe

Old News. :angel:



http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2005/12/rumor_calumet.php

Old News. :angel:



http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2005/12/rumor_calumet.php

The new news is that the News said three additional stories not two. That is the only reason I posted it today... yeah sure. :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2:

How much extra do you pay for garbage pickup in TN? I Pay zero.

Zero here. My garbage is covered by the city -- they even use the same bins as Buffalo.

How much do you pay for water per quarter in TN?[/B] I pay $65.00 per QUARTER.

Usage varies, but about $25-30 per month.

Energy costs are also a lot less in Nashville, thanks to the TVA (if you're not familiar with it - research the New Deal). Nashville also lacks the ass kicking gas bills every winter, since it's not as cold and most everyone utilizes electric heat.

Apparently you did not read the entire page. In the paragraph below it states that the basic star (which everyone gets) reduces the tax by $668.00 which brings the tax down to $3,861. plus there are proposals to expand the STAR program this year. This of course is outrageous for a ratty looking home like that. Why would anyone buy such a place when you can get a 2,400 sq ft home in the much better Starpoint district for $139,000.00 on a 1/3 acre lot with taxes about $400.00 less.

Hey, I agree it's ratty. Most of the housing stock in the Buffalo suburbs is pretty bad, but sadly, it's not my choice to live here.

I previously lived in an 18 story art deco skyscraper in the heart of downtown Birmingham, AL. I moved up here for love.

FYI, $3800 is still outrageous.



If you bought the place in the picture, in the Town that the Buffalo News said will become Buffalo's first black suburb, you are the one that should be weeping, not me. Don't blame me or NY if you are not an educated consumer.

:eek: Uhh, what's wrong with Cheektowaga/Depew becoming a "black" suburb?

The city I moved here from was 74% black and I lived in the heart of it. Wow... who cares about a person's skin color?


BTW - 9.25% sales tax on groceries - wheew. We spend about $190.00 per week on groceries for ourselves and our three kids that works out to $913.90 in sales tax in TN versus zero in NY per year.

Nice -- but you're still forgetting the state tax burdens - #2 for NY, #47 for TN...

Also do not forget that state income tax is deductible on Federal Return,so at my tax bracket about 34% of my State Income taxes are refunded by the Federal government compared to none of your sales tax on groceries.

See above, and apply federal too this time ;)

Plus the feds are picking up $1,200 of my local property taxes compared to only $400 of yours. On the same income you will pay a much higher federal income tax if you live in TN compared to if you live in NY and itemize.

Again, have you looked at the tax burdens per state? ...


From www.bestplaces.com


To maintain the same standard of living, your salary of $50,000 in Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York should increase to $51,163 in Nashville, Tennessee
Stated another way, it's 3.0% more expensive to live in Nashville, Tennessee than Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York

The only thing that is slighty more expensive in Nashville is housing - but hey, that's a consequence of a growing city ;) Also consider that home prices are appreciating a lot faster in Nashville, so since I paid cash for my house, I've made quite a bit of money.

Employers in Nashville, TN typically pay 5.8% less than employers in Buffalo, NY.Therefore, if you take the same type of job in the same type of company in Nashville, TN you are likely to earn $47,109 compared to $50,000 in Buffalo.

Then why are median household and per-capita incomes higher in Nashville by a large margin? Combined with a lower tax burden, that's more money in your pocket.


Look, I don't hate Buffalo at all. Out of all the places I've lived (Dallas, Cincinnati, Birmingham, Atlanta, Nashville, and Washington, D.C.), this area is the mostly taxed. It's also the the least wealthy place I've ever lived. I'm not trying to start Buffalo vs. Nashville, as I am just using Nashville as an example. Don't think I'm just some Republican hack - I'm a liberal, gay male myself.

I'd love to see Buffalo succeed, but the taxes here are playing a large part in killing the area. Ask the thousands of Buffalonians who move down South why they've moved, and it's always the same three responses: "the cold, lack of jobs, and taxes."

Energy costs are also a lot less in Nashville, thanks to the TVA (if you're familiar with it - research the New Deal). Nashville also lacks the ass kicking gas bills every winter, since it's not as cold and most everyone utilizes electric heat.."

Yet when you add up all of the costs including taxes and utilities and housing and groceries Nashville has a 3% higher cost of living. It is your total costs that matter not just one or two cherry picked items.



Uhh, what's wrong with Cheektowaga/Depew becoming a "black" suburb?

Not a thing but the fact is in Erie County it WILL lead to a decline in property values. I am not saying that is good, it is in fact an embarressment, but it is the reality in Erie County.



Nice -- but you're still forgetting the state tax burdens - #2 for NY, #47 for TN...

Does not matter, because total cost of living including this is still 3% lower in Buffalo than Nashville. Lower is Lower and it is the lower total cost that counts as this determines what your disposable income is.


Again, have you looked at the tax burdens per state?


Again it does not matter because - total cost of living including this is still 3% lower in Buffalo than Nashville. Lower is Lower and it is the lower total cost that counts as this determines what your disposable income is



Then why are median household and per-capita incomes higher in Nashville by a large margin?

Again a like job in Nashville will pay an average of 5.8% less than a similar job in Buffalo

Median Household income could be because there are fewer households per employee causing a higher household income. This could be because higher housing costs lead more people to have housemates or live with their parents until an older age.

Per - capita income could be higher if there are fewer children per adult or if a higher percentage of people are required to work. Nashville for example has a lower percentage of stay at home moms because it is harder to live on one income there than it is up here.

Welcome to WNY - you should have chosen Niagara County

Well, I'd like to see more of bestplaces data. I've been relying on the US census.

Having lived in and experienced both, I can say the Nashville is far wealthier than Buffalo -- just judging by people's spending habits, the cars people drive, the homes, etc.

Ah ha!

According to bestplaces.net, when doing a cost of living comparison:

"The total of all the cost of living categories weighted subjectively as follows: housing (30%), food an groceries (15%), transportation (10%), utilities (6%), healthcare (7%), and miscellaneous expenses such and clothing, services, and entertainment (32%).

State and local taxes are not included in any category"

A large part of your argument just fell out the window.

Well, I'd like to see more of bestplaces data. I've been relying on the US census.

Having lived in and experienced both, I can say the Nashville is far wealthier than Buffalo -- just judging by people's spending habits, the cars people drive, the homes, etc.
Anecdotal evidence is fun!!! It is amazing how we let preconceived notions color our perceptions.

Even based upon your figures if you are seeing far more wealthier people in Nashville than here then there must also be a lot more poorer people in Nashville than here, because when you look at your data the numbers are not really that far off. There must be a lot of poor people in neghborhoods you chose to ignore to offset all of the wealthy ones in yours.

But enoough of this topic for me. Again enjoy your stay in WNY. As my wife says - some people cry when they are transfered here but those same people cry even harder when they are transferred out a few years later..

everyone discusses just HOW HIGH the taxes are in NYS.
how about we discuss why they are so high in NYS.

Ah ha!

According to bestplaces.net, when doing a cost of living comparison:

"[i]The total of all the cost of living categories weighted subjectively as follows: housing (30%), food an groceries (15%), transportation (10%), utilities (6%), healthcare (7%), and miscellaneous expenses such and clothing, services, and entertainment (32%).

State and local taxes are not included in any category"

A large part of your argument just fell out the window.

My final thought on the subject is that once again you did not read the whole thing, look under the housing category and you will see it includes taxes updated as of November 2005.

btw you are correct in that they failed to include the 9.25% sales tax on food in TN so inreality the 3% difference is probably greater since Nashville's food costs are understated by 9.25%. Thanks for pointing that out

everyone discusses just HOW HIGH the taxes are in NYS.
how about we discuss why they are so high in NYS.

U -N- I- O-N-'S

Californians buy apartment buildings here
-----------------------------------------------
19 properties sold for more than $11 million

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
2/21/2006

A California-based real estate investment partnership has purchased more than a dozen apartment buildings in the City of Buffalo in a deal totaling more than $11 million.

Horizon Buffalo Portfolio II LLC, located in West Hollywood, Calif., has acquired 19 properties, primarily in the city's Allentown neighborhood, in a deal $9.7 million deal that closed Feb. 10. The California group has leased three other properties that it plans to buy in the next 90 days, bringing the total value of the acquisitions to $11.6 million.

Horizons Chief Executive Officer Michael Hananel said he's very excited about the Buffalo acquisition.

"We see great potential in these properties and in the Buffalo market. We're hoping to make additional acquisitions," Hananel said.

The new owners also plan to have a "hands on" relationship with their Buffalo holdings.

"This isn't going to be a long-distance relationship. We're going to be there a lot and we'll have a strong local management team there full-time," he said.

Chris Greco, of Buffalo-based Greco Real Estate, who brokered the deal, said it is one of the largest residential purchases by an out-of-town interest he's seen.

"This is definitely one of our larger deals and one of the biggest we have heard of in Buffalo. They will start off with a very strong presence in the city and a good collection of buildings," Greco said.

The list of properties now in the hands of the California group includes: 945 and 950 W. Ferry St.; 247, 255, 257 and 261 W. Utica St.; 201, 257 and 1095 Elmwood Ave.; 575 Colvin Ave.; 519 Virginia St.; 2435 Delaware Ave.; 2720-2730 and 2779 Main St.; 420 Jersey St.; 2 N. Pearl St.; 49 Johnson Park; 197 North St.; and a portion of 1514 Main St. Many of these buildings house 20-plus apartment units.

The leased properties are located at 209 and 217 Elmwood Ave. and 228 Summer St. Horizon expects to own those apartment buildings in the next 90 days. All of the properties, except for 2779 Main St., had been owned by Anthony J. Trusso and his Buffalo-based AFT Property Management.

The Horizon investors became interested in Trusso's Buffalo holdings after acquiring an Alden mobile home park and a Derby apartment complex through Greco's firm last fall. Greco has done several deals for Trusso and was familiar with his properties.

"As we were working with Horizon on the Alden and Derby deals, we built a relationship and became aware they were looking to make additional purchases," Greco said. "We'd done a lot of work for Tony Trusso and thought they'd be a good fit for Horizon."

Horizons' new Buffalo portfolio totals 388 apartments, plus a small commercial building that served as Trusso's headquarters at 257 Elmwood Ave., which now will house the California firm's local management offices.

Brett Neubig, a Horizons spokesman, said the new owners "are mindful of the integrity" of its Buffalo buildings, some with which date back to the turn of the century.

"They plan to make significant, ongoing investments in these properties. This is not a case of someone coming in and buying up real estate and not spending a dime," Neubig said. "These buildings will see exterior and interior upgrades, and landscaping improvements."

He noted that work already has started to renovate 261 W. Utica St., a single-family home which is part of the portfolio, which the new owners will use as corporate residences when they visit Buffalo.

According to papers filed with the Erie County Clerk's Office, the Horizons ownership group includes a second limited liability corporation, 9714 Regent St. LLC, and five individual California investors.

In addition to its new Buffalo properties, Horizon controls some 300 residential units in Decatur, Ill., plus another 800 units in the Los Angeles area.

The California group got off to a slightly rocky start with its Buffalo portfolio when residents of the Fenton Apartment complex on West Ferry Street lost electrical service the day before it took ownership. National Grid cut off power to the 24-unit building due to a mix-up in the title transfer process.

The Buffalo Fire Department was called to the scene following reports of carbon monoxide in the complex caused by tenants using gas stoves and ovens to warm their units.

"That was very uncharacteristic of how Horizon does business," Neubig said. "There was an unfortunate miscommunication which was dealt with as soon as they became aware of the situation."

Two days after the sale, police swat teams raided 49 Johnson Park as part of an investigation, breaking down the front door.

"One of things we'll be doing in the future is thorough tenant background checks. We don't plan to rent to criminals and we want the bad guys out," he said.

Trusso, whose real estate management offices are currently located at 257 Elmwood Ave., will be relocating his business to The Lenox Hotel, at 140 North St. The investor purchased the historic, but faded, circa 1896 hotel last summer for $2.4 million with plans to make major interior and exterior improvements. The 147-room hotel, located near the corner of Delaware Avenue and North Street, operates as a mix of hotel rooms and apartments.

Trusso, who sold another 15 Buffalo residential properties over the past year, purchased the former Romanello's Roseland Restaurant site at 490 Rhode Island St., which now operates as Prime 490, a steakhouse eatery.

e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

U -N- I- O-N-'S

MEDICAID!!!!

erie county's contribution to medicaid was over 200 million dollars in 2004.
yet its entire property tax levy for the year was less than 160 million.

i fully agree that the unions in NYS create an undesirable burden on businesses that consider developing here, but they are hardly the reason for our outrageous tax burden.

welfare reform people, welfare reform.

M-E-D-I-C-A-I-D Yesssssssss! oh and unions too.

i have to know how the unions significantly increase our tax burden.
please expand on this for me.

im not arguing for the unions, i just need a litttle input.

^ well i can't give specific figures, but they do negotiate contracts with the city and county and are never willing to make concessions, instead demand rediculous things like getting paid to leave 30 minutes earlier from work in the summer. It is difficult to lay off the union members, which I think has to do with why our city and county hasn't been able to proportionally downsize the workforce with the decrease in population.

...Energy costs are also a lot less in Nashville, thanks to the TVA...Nashville also lacks the ass kicking gas bills every winter, since it's not as cold and most everyone utilizes electric heat.
Wonder how that would change if NYS managed to get their hands on that. Nashville and Memphis might benefit, but any more than 10 miles outside them... Speaking of gas heat, I've only spent about $80 this winter so far, and consider that I pay $15/mo even if I don't use any. Granted I'm in an apartment and I don't have to worry about freezing pipes, but it's rather simple - set it to 65° during the day, wear a sweater, and turn it off at night. Like it makes a difference when you're sleeping.
...Most of the housing stock in the Buffalo suburbs is pretty bad, but sadly, it's not my choice to live here.

I previously lived in an 18 story art deco skyscraper in the heart of downtown Birmingham, AL. I moved up here for love.
That's what you get when all your suburban housing stock was built in the 1970s. We didn't build McMansions back then, and by God I wish we'd return to those days. And if it's not your choice, remind me why again? Love? Of taxes apparently? (it appears to consume your mind)
FYI, $3800 is still outrageous.
If you're still interested, I can show you some glorified mobile-home parks in some areas of NH where you'll be approaching $10k shortly.
The only thing that is slighty more expensive in Nashville is housing - but hey, that's a consequence of a growing city ;)
Too bad it's going up everywhere, yet not everywhere is growing. Also a consequence of rampant speculation, which does not reflect true market influences. See also NYMEX crude oil futures.
Ask the thousands of Buffalonians who move down South why they've moved, and it's always the same three responses: "the cold, lack of jobs, and taxes."
I've always loved the ones who quote "lack of jobs" as an excuse for leaving after they just quit their job. Good riddance. Whether you can tell or not, I believe, in certain situations, that beggars can be choosers.

I think that Unions increase costs by 1) being paid in excess of what workers doing similar jobs make in private industry make in this region. This was shown in a study reported in the Buffalo News. 2) Work rules that add expense and decrease flexibility. And 3) excessive benefits in the areas of retirement and health care that far exceed what you will see in the private sector.

looks like Calumet building is getting extra floors and a ,major reno via Kissling Interests

You can't give things away for free and expect in the end to pay for all the things that we are supposed to provide.

I'm sorry, NYS has the highest tax burden, and thats not offset by trash fees or water bills.

Medicare, Medicaid, Union contracts for public jobs, Welfare, Food Stamps, ect ect...these are what are killing the state.

face it, we here in WNY are getting shafted, you won't understand unless you have left this area and come back.

face it, we here in WNY are getting shafted, you won't understand unless you have left this area and come back.

leaving definately makes many of this area problems more apparent.

^^I left and was away for 8 years. That's what made me realize all the things I love about Western New York. For me, it made all the good things more apparent, not the negative ones.

^^I left and was away for 8 years. That's what made me realize all the things I love about Western New York. For me, it made all the good things more apparent, not the negative ones.
ur absolutely right, i lived in Albany for 4 years and California for 1 year...and it made more more passionate about the Buff, and really made me appreciate many of things we take for granted.

leaving definately makes many of this area problems more apparent.

ur also very right as well...from living in Cali and seeing how if they want soemthing new they just built it...then looking back here at Buff and seeing any growth or development at a snail's pace made me sick.

Ditto.

To each his own, but don't bury your heads in the sand when it comes to taxes in WNY and NYS in general. They ARE ridiculous. Some people don't realize how bad they are until they move away and see life elsewhere. I personally realized how bad they were before I even left.

Property taxes are high, but some people rationalize that homes are so affordable that it makes up for it...BAD LOGIC. See, your taxes disappear. Your home is an INVESTMENT that you get a return on. Having an affordable home is only good from an entry-level perspective. Once you're in, you really start wishing your home were worth more.

Medicaid is also killing the state. I think we all agree on that.

DallasTexan, you asked what's wrong with Depew/Cheektowaga becoming the city's first black suburb. To reasonable people like you and me, it shouldn't matter...but we both know it does. Black people are not inferior human beings, and we know that, but we also know that the white folk are easily scared off when the black folk start moving into the neighborhood, so they move out, creating a vaccuum that ultimately reduces the property values in the neighborhood. It's a sad cycle that is caused by white prejudice and ignorance rather than black influence on an area...IMO.

we all agree that medicaid is a problem.

anyone have opinions on fixing it?(plausable? if so how?)

i really dont know enough about medicaid in itself to have an informed opinion on this.(or even a half assed one for that matter)

we all agree that medicaid is a problem.

anyone have opinions on fixing it?(plausable? if so how?)

i really dont know enough about medicaid in itself to have an informed opinion on this.(or even a half assed one for that matter)

Well, our esteemed leaders in Albany have recently devised a plan to cap Medicaid cost increases passed on to the counties by still allowing the costs to increase.

That should tell you how much they have in the cupboard.

I can already think of 546 people in the federal government that need to lose their jobs, why not add a couple hundred more for NYS to that list? That'd be the one sure bet to fixing it. Good luck for that ever happening though.

Another dynamic to consider, in Erie Co. anyways, is that Medicaid reform is championed by that political toxin himself, Joel Giambra. As many good ideas as I think the guy has (regionalism being #1), he's shot himself in the foot a few too many times. Though if you couldn't rally behind him on the topic of Medicaid reform, you'd have a serious problem (or benefitting a little too much from it). But those people are out there...

As it was said before, a complete collapse is probably seriously in the state's best interest. Pretty sad it's come to that, but we need something to wake it up. Heck, it certainly wouldn't hurt the county budget.

Too much tax talk!

ur absolutely right, i lived in Albany for 4 years and California for 1 year...and it made more more passionate about the Buff, and really made me appreciate many of things we take for granted.



ur also very right as well...from living in Cali and seeing how if they want soemthing new they just built it...then looking back here at Buff and seeing any growth or development at a snail's pace made me sick.

Two different economies. And, are you saying the environmental review process in CA is less burdensome than in NY? I can give examples in my Department where the EIR process is going on four years and others where the entitlement process is approaching eight.

Two different economies. And, are you saying the environmental review process in CA is less burdensome than in NY? I can give examples in my Department where the EIR process is going on four years and others where the entitlement process is approaching eight.

no i'm not saying that at all...i don't even know what the evironmental review process in CA or NY is like. What I was actually thinking when I posted before had more to do with getting freeways put up and metrorail lines. I went to a number of meetings and seminars down in Irvine for the Institute of Transportation Engineers and in a relatively short period of time they decided to build more freeways with metrorail tracks down the middle...and then a month later they just went out and did it...while back here we're going on like year five of the Southtown Connector saga and the whole knock the Skyway down movement, if it was So Cal (which I know we're not) the skyway woulda been torn down years ago, the southtown connector woulda been finished, and the tunnel from city hall to the waterfront woulda been completed.

Another dynamic to consider, in Erie Co. anyways, is that Medicaid reform is championed by that political toxin himself, Joel Giambra. As many good ideas as I think the guy has (regionalism being #1), he's shot himself in the foot a few too many times. Though if you couldn't rally behind him on the topic of Medicaid reform, you'd have a serious problem (or benefitting a little too much from it). But those people are out there...

That's what's so frustrating with the recent political scene in Buffalo. It's always been bad, but for years the average joe could at least think to themselves that someday some progressive leaders would come along and make things better (bury-your-head-in-the-sand logic)...but then Giambra came along with some GREAT progressive ideas, but BLEW it with his nonsense. Now people are going to resent the ideals he stood for out of shear association. That could set the region back for a while...resentment toward Giambra and what he stood for, even if that included some great progressive ideas.

looks like Calumet building is getting extra floors and a ,major reno via Kissling Interests

looks like Calumet building is getting extra floors and a ,major reno via Kissling Interests

Sorry Steel- off topic! :dunno:

Hey, he just likes to ignore the region's problems, that's all ;)

Sorry Steel- off topic! :dunno:
Talk of development is off topic on a development thread? :weirdo:

Progress is being made in Buffalo according to a listing of the 'Best Performing Cities" recorded by the Milken Institute.

The index, published annually by the California-based nonprofit economic think tank, ranks the top 200 metropolitan areas as well as a separate list for small cities. Job growth and wages are the key measurements of the ranking along with a measurement of technology.

For 2005, Buffalo leaped to no. 146, up from no. 173 a year ago but still trails other upstate metro areas -- Albany (no. 66, up from no. 133); Syracuse (no. 113, up from no. 149); and Utica-Rome (no. 138, up from no. 169).
Binghamton (no. 164, down from no. 176) and Rochester (no. 181, up from no. 182) trail Buffalo in the updated listing. For comparison Pittsburgh ranked # 141 and Cleveland ranked # 194.

Milken places three Florida metro areas at the top of the index, lead by Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville, which jumped to no. 1 from no. 31 a year ago.
On the small cities list, Ithaca ranked no. 35 out of 179 metro areas. The city, located in the Finger Lakes region, is new to the index in 2005.

Buffalo components include: 1 year job growth rank #146 of 200, 1 year wage growth #124 of 200 and 5 year relative High Tech GDP Growth rank #75 of 200

The entire report can be found at www.milkeninstitute.com.

New Peace Bridge Project in Jeopardy

(February 22, 2006) - - A new report is casting doubts on whether the people of Western New York and Southern Ontario need a new peace bridge. News 4's Melissa Holmes has more on a story you saw first on News 4.

The main reason for building a new peace bridge is because of increasing traffic on the bridge, but now there are surprising new figures that could put a stop to the whole project.

Federal Highway Administration officials say as they consider the possibility to build a new peace bridge, they will be using new numbers showing volume has declined 18 percent over the last five years.

"What we've asked for is that the current data be used in the analysis, not only for the no build but for all the alternatives."

But Congressman Brian Higgins says it's not enough to just say volume is down. The reason why volume is down must be looked at.

Rep. Brian Higgins (D-South Buffalo) said, "Flow is down because a lot of people are avoiding the Peace Bridge because of congestion there. And the fact of the matter is, as the economy grows, I believe that traffic will increase at the Peace Bridge."

Councilman Nick Bonifacio is on the Peace Bridge jury.

Niagara District Councilmember Dominic Bonifacio said, "If you look at the bridge, there is still major truck backups on the existing bridge. Cause of homeland security, takes longer to process...so we do see major backups even if volume is down."

While both of those local lawmakers agree there is still a great need for a new bridge, here's what one official says about the possibility that the federal highway administration could recommend that no new bridge be built.

"That's always a possibility with any endeavor that's done underneath the NEPA process. But to come to that conclusion at this point is something we would not have to do."

But the FHA will only be making a recommendation. The Peace Bridge Authority will have the final say on whether to bond 230 million dollars of its own money to build a new bridge.

Now the question is, considering the new volume figures, will the money spent on a new bridge really be worth it?

Congressman Brian Higgins said, "Well, I think if there is an established need, which clearly there is, yes it will be."

I just spoke with the mayor of Fort Erie, who says it's not surprising that Peace Bridge traffic volume decreased over the past five years, and 9/11, SARS, and the cost of fuel are all contributing factors. But he believes that declining trend won't continue, and is hopeful that the FHA will recommend that a new bridge be built.

Ugh...

The Bush administration did think it was a good idea to fund the $100M bridge so that guy could get to his cabin in Alaska.

Funny how if you underfund customs you can cause major traffic jams that discourage use so that the use goes down and then you can claim the bridge is not needed.

This is the main bridge crossing between the most populous portion of Canada and the most populous portion of the US. How could 3 lanes be deemd adequate?

I guess if you vote blue you get your due!

They need to post this data and compare it to other similar bridges. Did the traffic over Niagara increase while Buffalo's decreased? (a sign of congestion). Did Detroit/Windsor traffic decrease as well?

5 Years ago is conveniently JUST before the recession, so it's not surprising after the recession and 9/11 that border traffic decreased. But if it decreased in Detroit as well then it's not a reason to stop the new Bridge. Detroit is the #1 crossing. Buffalo is second.

MAIN STREET: Agency wants to develop low-income apartments
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
2/22/2006

A not-for-profit agency whose main thrust is alcohol and substance abuse treatment is planning to branch out into affordable housing development.

Cazenovia Recovery Systems proposes converting a 70-year-old industrial building on Main Street, near Amherst Street, into a 24-unit, low-income housing complex. The development would be called Central Park Commons.

The 30-year-old agency, which has extensive housing experience via its residential treatment programs, would like to offer affordable apartments to the general population.

"We know there's a need for additional subsidized housing from our work with our clients. Housing and homelessness issues are something we'd like to get more involved with," said Cazenovia Executive Director Suzanne Bissonette.

The agency has filed plans with the Buffalo planning and zoning boards for a $7 million project that would see the former Cranz Rubber & Gasket building at 2665-2671 Main St. converted to 24 low-cost one- and two-bedroom apartments. A portion of the ground floor of the three-story structure would house the agency's offices.

"We'd be able to bring our administrative staff under one roof and we'd be on-site to manage the housing venture. It makes a lot of sense for many reasons," Bissonette said.

The Main Street building is currently owned by Del Prince Fashions which has used the site as administrative offices, plus receiving and warehouse space. Founder Chris Del Prince, who sold its Lifestyle Street Gear apparel chain last year, said he's looking for "quarters better suited to the exciting new direction" in which his business is headed.

Currently, Cazenovia's administrative offices are located in leased space at 206 S. Elmwood Ave. The agency also operates three residential treatment facilities in the City of Buffalo, as well as a residential venue in Eden. Cazenovia also owns single-family homes and multiple-unit dwellings around Erie County for clients who are in the final stages of their treatment programs.

In action last week, the city planning board tabled the proposal to allow more time for input from neighborhood residents and businesses regarding the housing project.

Bissonette said while the agency has held information sessions with various community groups, it is open to meeting with more neighborhood stakeholders.

"I think because of the nature of what we do, there are fears about who will be living there and what we'll be doing," Bissonette said. "It's understandable there are questions, but we'd hope to convince them that any worries they have are unfounded."

She noted Cazenovia's clients have a long history of community service as a part of their recovery programs and the communities they've served can vouch for their contributions.

Under the agency's current plans, four of the 24 units would be set aside for program clients who are in the final stages of their recoveries and qualify for subsidized housing. The bulk of the tenants would be members of the general population who meet income guidelines for affordable housing.

Bissonette said the agency looked at several potential sites before selecting the Main Street complex for it project. She said the circa 1930s industrial complex, which is actually two buildings joined by a middle connecting structure, has several interesting features, including a skylight that runs the length of the structure and much of the original ironwork.

The agency plans to landscape the property and erect decorative fencing. Plans also call for demolition of two wood frame structures on the site to make room for expansion of the main brick buildings toward the rear of the parcel.

The conversion and expansion as proposed will create 35,531 square feet of residential space and 6,269 square feet of office space.

Primary access to the housing development and offices would be from the rear off Pannell Street, with some 40 surface parking spots for residents and staff.

e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

http://www.buffalonews.com/editoria...222/1031566.asp

If I know anything about how the Feds operate (which I don't, it's your classic riddle-wrapped-in-an-enigma), here's something that seems logical:

The new bridge will be axed, and some time in the near future, the current bridge will fall into the icy January waters at rush hour. Now FEMA (or whatever agency) waits 3 days to determine if it's an emergency or not. Meanwhile, some ice fishermen heroically manage to rescue some survivors, but alas, not everybody. The next week, reports will surface that those who died in the mishap, died because the fishermen were interfering with the government's rescue efforts.

But even after all of this, the bridge is never replaced. Plans were considered, but eventually declined in favor of a more economical span, one connecting Port Stanley, ON and Astabula, OH. A Buffalo-Toledo span was considered, but removed from consideration after a lengthy review process concluded that it didn't provide an international crossing.

good, I didn't want a bridge anyways.

^ why? how could you not a want a new signature bridge?

what was wrong with the original twin span proposal that they came up with this signature bridge shit?

^^ it's a long story.

Does anyone know what's going on with the 'Midway' townhouses on Delaware Ave? Last year Lord Chumleys restaurant closed and since then it seems every building there has added a For Lease sign out front. I noticed today one had "Price Reduced" added to the sign.

Why is everybody bailing out of the Midway at the same time??

Midway, no clue

Bridge, I think the city is better served if the money even if federal is invested on actually making the city grow, not giving it some modern bridge to make us all feel like its growing...you guys know my view on this, do I have to go over it again with you? lol

Midway, no clue

Bridge, I think the city is better served if the money even if federal is invested on actually making the city grow, not giving it some modern bridge to make us all feel like its growing...you guys know my view on this, do I have to go over it again with you? lol
Contrar, BuffCity, it all starts with public perception. Especialy in a city like Buffalo thats been down a long time. Remember how pumped everyone was with The Adelphia Tower plan (which turned into crap). The City should have come right back with a big plan as everyone was down. A new bridge or say if M&T goes forward with a signature Tower would get everyone thinking things are progressing. Once attitudes begin to change, more doors open, and the city will grow as more condos go up on the waterfront (as is happening in Baltimore. You can have all three, growth, bridge, and Tower (hell, more towers) if its planned right.

They need to post this data and compare it to other similar bridges. Did the traffic over Niagara increase while Buffalo's decreased? (a sign of congestion). Did Detroit/Windsor traffic decrease as well?

5 Years ago is conveniently JUST before the recession, so it's not surprising after the recession and 9/11 that border traffic decreased. But if it decreased in Detroit as well then it's not a reason to stop the new Bridge. Detroit is the #1 crossing. Buffalo is second.
Lets not forget that There is more than one way to cross the border at downtown Detroit (Tunnel) so those figures might be misleading. I cant remember, is there another way across the Niagara River other that The Peace and Rainbow bridges? They gota build that bridge. :rant:

Lets not forget that There is more than one way to cross the border at downtown Detroit (Tunnel) so those figures might be misleading. I cant remember, is there another way across the Niagara River other that The Peace and Rainbow bridges? They gota build that bridge. :rant:
also the Lewiston/Queenston bridge

If Buffalo is on the comeback trail then this should be easy.


Please list all of the Private non-governmental development projects that exceeded $25 million dollars within the City limits in the last five years. . Again I am talking about within the City limits of Buffalo. I am talking new projects bricks and mortor not equipment purchases for a hospital or factory that is needed just to replace changing technology.

It is ok if there is IDA assistance but there must still be $25 million or more in private financing.

also the Lewiston/Queenston bridge
whirlpool bridge too, if you are a NEXUS member.

Here are some from the last four years all are in the City of Buffalo:

Cobblestone Casino & Hotel – All private
Bass Pro - $123 million total $53 million private
Niagara Center Office Building – 8 floors 300,000 sq ft
Hauptman Woodward/Medical Campus – 3 buildings 150 million
HealthNow NY Office building - $110 million, 465,000 sq feet
Certainteed Corporation – 160 workers not sure if it’s over $25 million

Plus here are a few slightly smaller projects:

General Mills Expansion $15 million
Delaco Steel $18 million - still in planning
New Era Relocation to City - $10 million

Plus here are a few in the suburbs:

Seneca Hotel - $100+ million
GM Investment one half Billion dollars
Definity Health Corp 600 jobs $10.3 million
Citibank new office under construction 100,000+ sq. feet
One Beacon Insurance – New building 430 jobs
3M O-Cel-O Tonawanda $28 million
Geico - $40 million, 2,500-3,000 jobs


Fellow blogger please add any I left out.

Where did you get the dollar amounts for these projects? That's way too much research to do for this challenge. How much was spent on the conversion of the Sidway Building into apartments? (I know they used some public funding, but mostly private). How much was spent on the Stokes and Seed Building? How about the neighboring Swan Building? How about those buildings on the 800 Block of Main Street? Ani DiFranco used a lot of public money for The Church, but she must have invested some private funds too, no?

The new Wyndham Hotel to be built in the Elmwood Village is only $7-million, but that's not nothing. How much did D'Youville College spend on its new dorms on the West Side? Canisuis College's dorms on Forest? How much private funding has been spent on the Frank Lloyd Wright Darwin Martin Complex?

City Centre II? The LL Berger Building/Bellasario Apartments? And New Era Cap just got approval yesterday to go ahead with their plans to invest $10-million in the former Federal Reserve Building for their headquarters, which will bring 300 additional workers downtown.

Susie, how did you come up with the $25-million private investment criteria anyway? Sounds a bit arbitrary to me. Are you saying that several $10-million investments are insignifacant.

It was not hard at all I got them from here: http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workforceindustrydata/wny/wnyec.shtm

They only go back 4 years that is why I did not go back any further. A few I just remembered from reading about them.

Susie, how did you come up with the $25-million private investment criteria anyway? Sounds a bit arbitrary to me. Are you saying that several $10-million investments are insignifacant.

I think $25 million is a reasonable cutoff in this day and age where a small insignificant strip plaza can easiliy cost 10-15 million dollars

^^well because one 25 million dollar private investment is clearly better than hundreds of millions in lesser private investment. duh. :weird: :ohno:

^^well because one 25 million dollar private investment is clearly better than hundreds of millions in lesser private investment. duh. :weird: :ohno:
But in Rochester we have neither. Total construction activity was less in actual dollars last year then ten years ago by over one hundred million dollars, if you factor in inflation it's even worse.

Source;Rochester Business Journal - print edition, if you don't have a copy go to the library and look it up.

can you give me the year on that rochester business journal?

if thats from 2005 then that would make complete sense seeing as the 120 million dollar bausch and lomb place was built 10 years before.

i would love to know where the rest of this construction that was going on in the nineties was. short of track housing in the suburbs, and the bausch and lomb tower, i can't find this mass of construction you speak of anywhere.

furthermore keep rochester in the rochester thread. if i were the buffalo guys i would be sick of hearing us bicker.

:weirdo:
Again with the apologies, you Rochester boosters really crack me up with your blind loyalty. You are always ready with another reason why the bad news is really good news. Always ready to explain away any negativity. I asked both threads a simple question the Buffalo guys listed projects the Rochester guys came up with one item and that was for a company that received IDA money to hire back less people than they got rid of just a few years before. And this you are touting as real economic progress.

So what you are saying is to hell with all the people they screwed and lives they've sent into disarray as long as they are going to bring back a small percentage of the number they got rid of we should give them corporate welfare? We should say they are a wonderful company? We should lie and call it economic development?

That is just nuts !!!

Keep buying the spin from Maggie as your jobs and families move away. Stay in denial - the politicians want you there. They know that if they admit there is a problem they might be blamed for causing it or worse they might have to try and really fix it. And they can't do that because it would cost them power.


Have another it'll clear your thinking. :cheers:

Bridge, I think the city is better served if the money even if federal is invested on actually making the city grow, not giving it some modern bridge to make us all feel like its growing...you guys know my view on this, do I have to go over it again with you? lol
As I understand it, the funds were largely supposed to come from PBA's bonding ($230 mil?).

As such, you're paying it through tolls, not tax money. We can argue for 40 days and 40 nights about whether or not tolls are a good thing, but one thing is certain - they're not going to go away.

That being said, if we're going to end up paying whether we get anything or not, I'd say we might as well take it. I'm sure the maintenance and rehabilitation on the current aging structure makes the difference even less pronounced in the life-cycle costs. So I don't want to trivialize it, but relatively, it's almost "something for nothing". And all this is just quantifiable - completely ignoring "progress perception" as HaloVet notes. After all the projects that have shit the bed here in the past 30 years, I'll take it.

My same idea as with the Election Day transportation bond proposal. Sure, most of it was for downstate, but you know they'd pry the funding out of the state somehow (because they can) if that proposal were to fail, and we would have gotten jack. Now, we're still paying, but we get something out of it. Minimalistic, but it's progress compared to what we're used to, whatever way you cut it. Gotta start somewhere.

If you don't like it, there's a really simple decision. I apply it to the easily-bypass-able tolls on the I-190. Don't use it; don't pay. Simple as that.

I miss free roads.

I miss free roads.

now c'mon now, we all now roads aren't REALLY free. we all end up paying for them somehow or another.

i just wish the 2 tolls in the city limits were removed.
the grand island toll can stay, since its a bridge and needs cash for maintenance of the 2 bridges.

^^well because one 25 million dollar private investment is clearly better than hundreds of millions in lesser private investment. duh. :weird: :ohno:

Not so fast. We got the Niagara Center, for more than $25-million, and it's really quite unremarkable. I think I would have prefered "hundreds of millions" in lesser private investment.

Not so fast. We got the Niagara Center, for more than $25-million, and it's really quite unremarkable. I think I would have prefered "hundreds of millions" in lesser private investment.
Luckily for the past few years we have had both. Per Business First 2005 was a record year of construction and it was the third year in a row that we set a new record. According to their figures which they sourced to McGraw-Hill's FW Dodge Division 2005 had almost 1 and a quarter billion dollars in new construction for the two county Buffalo metro.

Developer acquires Washington St. site
Eram Epstein is hoping economic development lightning strikes twice on Washington Street.

Epstein, who converted the former Holling Press complex into the Holling Place Apartments, is taking his development know-how across Washington Street.

Literally, in this case.

Epstein has acquired a vacant three-story, 16,000-square-foot building at 504 Washington St. and is taking the first steps towards retrofitting the structure into three two-family townhouses. Epstein, along with his design team, Silvestri Architects, will be presenting their proposal for the project to the Buffalo Planning Board during its Feb. 28 meeting.

After doing a series of apartment projects around the city, the Washington Street townhouses are Epstein's first residential complex where tenants own their own living space.

"Everyone keeps talking about the demand for condos and townhouses in Buffalo, so we are using this to see if it is really true," Epstein said.

The units will have 5,000 square feet and allow tenants to either occupy the entire space themselves or break it up in their own rental scenario Epstein added.

Tenants will have the opportunity to custom design the interior finishes. Each unit comes with a two-car indoor parking.

The entire project carries a $500,000 development price tag. Pending final city approvals, Epstein hopes to start work on the units later this spring and have them ready for occupancy by late fall or early winter.

The entire project is being self-funded.

"This is another example of someone working outside the traditional box to help re-create a new downtown neighborhood," said Michael Schmand, Buffalo Place Inc. executive director.

$8M makeover for N.F. hotel

Niagara Falls, N.Y. will soon see its second major hotel check in its first guests later this year.

Crews are working on the first phase of converting the Holiday Inn Select along Third Street in the Cataract City into the region's first Crowne Plaza. The $8 million conversion should be completed later this fall, said Geoffrey Reeds, the hotel's director of sales and marketing.

The Holiday Inn Select brand name and reservation network will remain place until the conversion is completed, Reeds said.

Once the conversion is complete, the Crowne Plaza will be the second "new" hotel in Niagara Falls, joining the 604-room Seneca Niagara Casino & Hotel, which opened its doors in December and will be fully operational next month.

The conversion to the Crowne Plaza brand caps a prolonged period of uncertainty for the hotel, the third largest in the region trailing only the Seneca Niagara Casino & Hotel and the Adam's Mark in Buffalo.

"This should settle any questions about the hotel," Reeds said.

The six-story, 392-room hotel, which opened in 1975 under the Hilton banner, is literally being gutted and renovated in a soup-to-nuts scenario.

The work is being done in phases to keep the hotel open during the renovation. In the current phase, 160 of the L-shaped hotel's rooms are being renovated.

Also, the hotel's conference center is being downsized from 17,000 square feet to 12,000 square feet, but at the same time its amenities are being upgraded, Reeds said.

There's a dual reason why the hotel downsized its in-house meeting space.

First, it is located next door to Conference Center Niagara Falls, the city's primary meeting space. Conference Center Niagara Falls is managed by Sentry Hospitality, one of the Crowne Plaza's partners along with Phoenix-based Namwest Inc.

"Conference Center Niagara Falls is a separate entity and everyone has a fair crack at booking events there," Reeds said.

Secondly, the revamped Crowne Plaza will have a larger main restaurant and sports bar, which will be using a portion of the downsized meeting space. The hotel's current restaurant, Fins, has 78 seats. The new, still-to-be named restaurant will have 200 seats and a sports theme, Reeds said.

The Sentry/Namwest ownership group is also adding a 1,700-square-foot fitness center to the hotel that will complement its swimming pool and a new business center.

Starbuck's has agreed to open an upscale coffee shop in the hotel, Reeds added.

"Every facet of the hotel is being touched by this project," Reeds said.

The dull brown facade facing Third Street will be replaced with a new exterior face featuring more prominent windows and glass along with blue and red tones.
The hotel's rooms will get new granite vanities, new tiling in the bathrooms and seven pillows for each bed. Every room will come with high-speed, wireless computer access.

Not so fast. We got the Niagara Center, for more than $25-million, and it's really quite unremarkable. I think I would have prefered "hundreds of millions" in lesser private investment.

i think you missed the sarcasm in my statement.

I miss free roads.
Too bad, because it seems all the new highways being built across the country are now tolled. The federal funding just doesn't cut it anymore. This is one area where we have an advantage, we haven't had one built in forever, and it's all but certain that the Williamsville barrier is going to be moved out past Exit 49. The town of Hamburg has also put in a proposal to get the Lackawanna barrier moved out past Exit 57, but I doubt that ones going to happen. I'll agree with anyone, however, that the I-190 tolls are just plain assinine. Leave it to NYS. If you're going to put in a toll booth, at least make it two-way. Make one two-way and remove the other, but then you'd be unfairly "taxing" a direction. Which is evidently different than unfairly "taxing" an entire city somehow. I guess I-190 is one of the better roads I've ever seen, if that's any consolation, and considering I've never paid a toll on that highway I guess I can live with it.

East of the Mississippi in particular, the only states I see w/o toll highways (and I'm only looking for green roads in Streets & Trips, which may be inaccurate) are VT, RI, CT, DE (which I know has one because I've paid it), NC, AL, MS, TN, MI, and WI. However, outside of the I-90 and I-76 corridors, most of them seem to be commuter loops - backing up my claim of demand outstripping funding. Florida, in particular, seems to be developing the strongest love affair. And of course we all know NJ is Toll Booth Capital of the USA!

As for bridges, I agree. Major ones like the Peace Bridge, the NF bridges, GI bridges deserve special maintenance attention and it's the most practical and cost-effective way of doing it.

Some reading material if any of you are bored enough to be interested:
Toll Roads: A New Direction for US Highways? (http://www.uctc.net/papers/056.pdf)

Petition to Remove Tolls From I-190 (http://www.erie.gov/depts/government/clerk/thruway_tolls.phtml)

I think all highways should be toll roads. That way they are paid for by the people who use them. That way the free loading suburban SOB's don't get a free ride on My back

A lot of people other than suburbanites use free - er, highways, steel.

As for your list, sargeant, Georgia only has one toll road that's only a few miles long (the GA 400 in Atlanta).

A lot of people other than suburbanites use free - er, highways, steel.

As for your list, sargeant, Georgia only has one toll road that's only a few miles long (the GA 400 in Atlanta).
Yeah, as do a few others. SC only has a small loop around Greenville, as well. And VA doesn't have much mileage either. I also failed to list MD as toll-free.

Either way, the trend in new construction is unmistakable, especially in the rapidly growing areas. Look at Orlando, LA (Santa Ana), and Toronto in particular to expand that way.

so besides the lack of construction on the court house, or any word on Bass Pro...news for Buffalo is good, we have hotels, offices, medical centers, retail, museums...all starting to move, it will be nice to see HealthNow and the Elmwood and Delaware construction done, well it will be nice to see it all completed...get moving Buffalo.

A lot of people other than suburbanites use free - er, highways, steel.

As for your list, sargeant, Georgia only has one toll road that's only a few miles long (the GA 400 in Atlanta).

Yes and they could pay too but most are suburban residents on the highways. The burbs could not function without them. The point is if you use the highway you should pay and if you don't you should not have to. simple.

That's flawed logic. Should people who don't use public schools not pay for them either?

And ugh, my old city just had a 1,000 footer (bumped up from 850 due to demand) announced today :( I want one here!

http://www.2dimes.com/gallery/images/zclients/signaturetower/06-101-Downtown-v04_0001.jpg

:cry:

yes DallasTexan, we all want a 1,000 footer but would settle for a 100 footer because that's about as high as we'll ever see again. Who the hell would ever build a scraper here? other than the federal court house if that is even a scraper.

who would build here?

Buffalo is the closest US city to Toronto, a world city and a major finacial center, Buffalo is also NYS's 2nd city, its home to M&T Bank and HSBC.

While the most of us still think Buffalo is a sick child, perhaps the potential and historic stature of the city is better told by those who are not even from Buffalo or its metro.

We are closer to where we want to be, if we understand that, I dont know...but the cards are looking good for us in this hand.

1,000 footer? M&T Bank, but only if Buffalo as a city gets its shit together, well more like 800ft, but still.

i think a 1000 footer would be a dump on the buffalo skyline if it went up without significant 500 foot++ development going on around it.
i'd rather see a couple very innovative(architecture and technology) buildings around the height or even slightly shorter than the hsbc go up.

not that i would complain if someone wanted to spend that kind of money on a building in buffalo. i just think too much would crap on the character of buffalo's skyline.

That's flawed logic. Should people who don't use public schools not pay for them either?

And ugh, my old city just had a 1,000 footer (bumped up from 850 due to demand) announced today :( I want one here!

http://www.2dimes.com/gallery/images/zclients/signaturetower/06-101-Downtown-v04_0001.jpg

:cry:


They should work on filling up some of that empty space before putting up a 1000 footer

And yes everyone should pay for public education because society as a whole benefits from having an educated populace. Societey does not benefit from our endless supply of highways. We don't really need vast networks of highways other than to feed the completely unneccessary suburban sprawl. If you want to live in sprawlville start paying for it yourself.

i think a 1000 footer would be a dump on the buffalo skyline if it went up without significant 500 foot++ development going on around it.
i'd rather see a couple very innovative(architecture and technology) buildings around the height or even slightly shorter than the hsbc go up.

not that i would complain if someone wanted to spend that kind of money on a building in buffalo. i just think too much would crap on the character of buffalo's skyline.

I kind of agree...a 1,000 footer would throw off the balance of the skyline...actually one can argue that HSBC already does make the skyline look disproportionate....

with HSBC:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/bjfan82/buffaloskyline.jpg

without HSBC:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/bjfan82/buffaloskyline1.jpg

i can agree with that^^ though the hsbc does have this imposing big city look to it when your driving into that part of downtown.

i think a 400-500 ft tower poking out from the center cluster of buildings could balance the hsbc nicely.

^ yeah exactly...i was always thinking of on top Main Place Mall next to M.P. Tower on the long flat 2 story portion

Best Buy, the nation's No. 1 electronics chains, will take up residence in the Walden Galleria later this year, kicking off what's expected to a long-awaited expansion blitz at the regional shopping center.
The Minnesota-based retail chain, which currently has only one store in the Buffalo market, has filed a request for a building permit with the Town of Cheektowaga seeking to build a 50,000-square-foot store on the north end of the Galleria, near Sears.

The $2 million project would see the big box retailer take over space on the mall's lower level currently occupied by The Limited shops and extending out onto what is now a surface parking area.

The Limited will relocate to small quarters.

Galleria General Manager James Soos confirmed Best Buy's plans and said it will bring a new group of shoppers to the mall.

"It brings an exciting new merchandise category to the Galleria. We believe Best Buy is the best when it comes to consumer electronics and are very excited to have them here," Soos said.

The store is expected to open this summer.

This is actually the second time Best Buy has signaled an interest in setting up shop at the Galleria. In January 2003, the electronics giant said it planned to take over the AMC movie theater space on the upper level of the mall, off the food court. That plan was part of a larger mall renovation concept that did not move forward.

Town sources said Thursday that Best Buy's building permit application is the first step in an ambitious dining and entertainment component to the nearly 17-year-old shopping destination.

As The Buffalo News reported in April 2005, the Pyramid Corp., which owns the mall, is working on a sweeping update of the north end of the retail complex that is expected to include new theaters, multiple restaurants, a newly created "indoor boulevard" of shops, and a new parking deck.

Another hint of things that Pyramid's plans are starting to gel was Barnes & Noble's January announcement that it will join the mall lineup with a nearly 50,000-square-foot store. Town sources said the large-format book and media store will be located on two levels, taking a portion of the existing AMC cinema space.

Bon-Ton's exit from the mall last month has opened the way for that two-level retail space to be tapped for a portion of the ambitious retail makeover.

The project, which is said to have a price tag in excess of $50 million, is expected to be formally announced in time for the 2006 construction season.

Best Buy, which entered the Buffalo market in November 2000 with a store in Boulevard Consumer Square, off Niagara Falls Boulevard in Amherst, has proven to be a strong competitor despite having just one location. A late 2005 consumer survey by Scarborough Reports found 27 percent of local consumers had shopped Best Buy in the past 12 months, ranking it the area's No. 4 electronics seller.

In that survey, Wal-Mart topped the list, with 37 percent, followed by Circuit City, 36 percent and Target, at 31 percent. Those competitors all have multiple stores in the Buffalo market.

Benderson Development Corp. has been working to locate a Best Buy in the Town of Hamburg. The developer was eyeing a site on Mile Strip Road, but dropped the effort in January due to difficulties getting the parcel rezoned for commercial use.

Best Buy spokesman Jay Musolf said Buffalo is one of many New York markets in which the retailer is looking to increase its reach.

"We're definitely interested in adding stores. We're looking for opportunities to add convenient, unique and fun shopping experiences where we see demand for our products," Musolf said.

The company's U.S. stable of stores now stands at 741 units.

Soos said Pyramid has a strong relationship with Best Buy. The retailer has stores in several of Pyramid's malls, including its Carousel Mall in Syracuse and Crossgates in Albany.

Best Buy is not the first electronics retailer to tenant the Galleria. In its early years, the ill-fated Silo chain was part of the line-up. The mall lost that store in 1999 when its parent company folded.

Larry Quinn on the radio this morning said that Bass Pro is definitely a go and will sign final contracts by the end of March.

Southwest Airlines is giving Buffalo area travelers yet another reason to fly to Chicago.
Starting April 28, the low-cost airline will offer a third non-stop flight to the Windy City, boosting its total daily Buffalo departures to 14.

"Our schedule planning folks are always looking at the markets we serve, and if we see the demand, we're happy to add flights," said Southwest spokeswoman Edna Ruano. "This is good news for Buffalo."

Southwest kicked off service to Chicago's Midway International Airport last June with a pair of daily departures, a move that helped propel the airline to the No. 1 carrier at Buffalo Niagara International Airport. In August 2005, the no-frills flyer nudged US Airways out of the top slot, a position it had held for more than 20 years, capturing 20 percent of passenger traffic.

Southwest maintained the No. 1 ranking from August through November of last year, but was temporarily unseated by US Airlines in the December tally. The Texas-based airline fought back hard in January, carrying 38,563 travelers out of Buffalo, and grabbing 23 percent of total flyers, its largest-ever market share. US Airways counted 35,761 Buffalo passengers last month, or 21 percent.

Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority spokesman C. Douglas Hartmayer said the extra Chicago flight is great news for local travelers.

"Any time we can add a flight to a major destination, like Chicago, it's another win for Buffalo passengers. We are delighted to get another Southwest flight," Hartmayer said.

The new Chicago flight will depart Buffalo at 11:25 a.m. daily. The airline's current flight schedule includes Chicago departures at 7:50 a.m. Monday through Saturday, and 7:30 a.m. on Sunday, and 4:10 p.m. daily.

"The midday flight is an especially nice addition because it complements the early morning and late afternoon flights," Hartmayer said.

The new Southwest flight is expected to help the Buffalo airport toward its goal of making 2006 a fourth consecutive record-breaking year for passenger traffic.

In 2005, the airport set a new record when more than 4.8 million travelers passed through its gates. The goal this year is to surpass the 5 million milestone.

Southwest's additional commitment to passenger traffic at the Buffalo International Airport follows an announcement earlier this month that the airline will establish airline-staffed cargo service here. The airline had been using contract staffers to handle cargo operations at the Buffalo airport.

"That's good news for the Buffalo market because it shows demand is building for our cargo service and we'll now have our own employees on that side of the operation, too," Ruano said.

Southwest has leased 6,500-square-feet of space at Air Cargo Buffalo on Cayuga Drive as the base for its local air cargo operations.

On Thursday, in addition to the third Buffalo-Chicago flight, the airline also unveiled plans for a slate of 14 other schedule expansions around the U.S. Six of those new flights will serve New Orleans.

They should work on filling up some of that empty space before putting up a 1000 footer

And yes everyone should pay for public education because society as a whole benefits from having an educated populace. Societey does not benefit from our endless supply of highways. We don't really need vast networks of highways other than to feed the completely unneccessary suburban sprawl. If you want to live in sprawlville start paying for it yourself.

Don't worry; the the Signature Tower itself is actually an infill project containing 600 units of residential and the land in the foreground around the stadium has a project that's bringing 3,000 urban residential units with a retail component to the area. I'd argue that that's better for "filling empty space" than a bunch of vinyl suburban homes on Genesee and William, right? ;)

I'll also argue that society does indeed benefit from a network of highways. I'm an urbanite but I easily realize this. I also realize that they're a necessarily evil. Interstates promote and speed the movement of goods and commerce throughout the nation. Unfortunately, sprawl is a consequence since we don't have proper legislation to limit its development. The roads themselves aren't the problem; it's our government.

Now, steel, since you're against all highways, here's a question. If there were no highways, where would the new Peace Bridge that you want built so badly terminate? I don't think the thousands of trucks that cross the bridge monthly would like navigating the streets of Buffalo, do you? That would kill Buffalo's spot as a border crossing in a heartbeat.

---

Oh well, good news on the Best Buy. The Galleria is stuck in the 80s so anything that can help it is good, I 'spose. Great news on Southwest, too.

That's flawed logic. Should people who don't use public schools not pay for them either?

And ugh, my old city just had a 1,000 footer (bumped up from 850 due to demand) announced today :( I want one here!

http://www.2dimes.com/gallery/images/zclients/signaturetower/06-101-Downtown-v04_0001.jpg

:cry:
What city is this and what is the hideous looking building to the lower left with no roof?

That's Nashville. I'm not sure which building you're referring to - if it's the red brick building at the bottom of the photo, that's a natural gas power substation that's disguised to look like an older brick warehouse. It looks better at street level.

Buffalo might see a signature, or another significantly tall tower soon...

Boston, Baltimore, Nashville, NYC, Hartford - all are seeing new towers taller ones at that. Buffalo might be seeing the turnaround that has been waited for, well for about 30 years, we are hitting on all eight cylinders and the economy is turning around for the better.

HSBC is not that bad, infact its a nice tower, it just looks like anything else built in the 60's-70's. M&T by far is a very nice tower, older modern yes...but still has charm.

There are a few locations that a tall tower could fit, perhaps all these locations could be re-built anyways.

I'll believe it when I see it. I like the optimism though.

That's Nashville. I'm not sure which building you're referring to - if it's the red brick building at the bottom of the photo, that's a natural gas power substation that's disguised to look like an older brick warehouse. It looks better at street level.
Interestingly enough there is no mention of this building being 1,000 feet in either the Tennessean or Nashville Business Journal.
In fact the web site you got the photo from is a graphic arts studio. They call it a concept with 55 floors. So I guess each floor must have 18.5 foot ceilings to reach 1,000 feet. If of course it ever leaves the concept stage they have been talking about it since 2004. And are asking for a lot of tax breaks, over $12 million I believe. Which is surprising because as we all know there are virtually no taxes in TN to begin with. :cheers:

I did see this article about booming Nashville though;


Are we, the taxpayers of Davidson County, willing to pay for a new convention center? NO. In fact, if you will excuse my "French," HELL NO.
Between 1995 and 2000, the Census Bureau tells us that 16,382 more people moved out of Davidson County than moved in. Only one other county in the entire state lost citizens at a higher rate.
What was happening during that time? The Gaylord Entertainment Center was completed in 1996, and the Coliseum was completed in 1999. That's strange? Maybe it just took time for these grand new structures, pride of the Chamber of Commerce, to work their magic.
Apparently not. A study by MTSU showed the trend continued in 2001, 2002 and 2003 with between 2,500 and 3,000 more people moving out of the county each year than moved in.

Don't worry; the the Signature Tower itself is actually an infill project containing 600 units of residential and the land in the foreground around the stadium has a project that's bringing 3,000 urban residential units with a retail component to the area. I'd argue that that's better for "filling empty space" than a bunch of vinyl suburban homes on Genesee and William, right? ;)

I'll also argue that society does indeed benefit from a network of highways. I'm an urbanite but I easily realize this. I also realize that they're a necessarily evil. Interstates promote and speed the movement of goods and commerce throughout the nation. Unfortunately, sprawl is a consequence since we do have proper legislation to limit its development. The roads themselves aren't the problem; it's our government.

Now, steel, since you're against all highways, here's a question. If there were no highways, where would the new Peace Bridge that you want built so badly terminate? I don't think the thousands of trucks that cross the bridge monthly would like navigating the streets of Buffalo, do you? That would kill Buffalo's spot as a border crossing in a heartbeat.

---

Oh well, good news on the Best Buy. The Galleria is stuck in the 80s so anything that can help it is good, I 'spose. Great news on Southwest, too.


I actually never said I was against highways and I never said they are completely unneeded. I said that if you use them you should pay for them. What is wrong with that? If people had to pay their fair share of the costs of sprawl they would be less likely to choose a form of lifestyle that saps the efficiency of our society. Perhaps all that billions of highway construction money could better be spent on cancer research? I would not be against chipping in my portion of the highway money to go to that.

And as far as the trucks. Why not ship long distance by rail. Isn't there something silly about having thousands of trucks using free highways to transport goods across the country instead of trains?

No one is clapping for the vinyl houses. We will see what the "urban" houses look like when they are built. Still thats a lot of empty space to fill.

Buffalo might see a signature, or another significantly tall tower soon...

Boston, Baltimore, Nashville, NYC, Hartford - all are seeing new towers taller ones at that. Buffalo might be seeing the turnaround that has been waited for, well for about 30 years, we are hitting on all eight cylinders and the economy is turning around for the better.

HSBC is not that bad, infact its a nice tower, it just looks like anything else built in the 60's-70's. M&T by far is a very nice tower, older modern yes...but still has charm.

There are a few locations that a tall tower could fit, perhaps all these locations could be re-built anyways.


You will see a lot of smaller infill new builds and many renos but you are not going to see any buildings on the magnatude of HSBC until Buffalo's economy sees a drastic change

You will see a lot of smaller infill new builds and many renos but you are not going to see any buildings on the magnatude of HSBC until Buffalo's economy sees a drastic change

It's possible that you might in a mixed use building hotel/condo, but certainly not an office building considering the floor plate size that is desired today

Here's the tower's website, if you don't believe it's real.

http://www.signaturetowernashville.com

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2006/01/30/daily40.html

Now, the building was originally unveiled at 55 stories by Chicago architect Lucien Lagrange . It was majorly blasé - hardly worthy of being a "signature tower."

It was then redesigned (with the same 55 stories) by Smallwood, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart & Associates where it then reached 800 feet (with spire).

It has now been redesigned again and has lost the hotel component in favor of more residential space (hence the 1,000 figure).



Heh, and if you think a posting on a local forum from one citizen is an "article," so be it.

According to the real Census Bureau:

Nashville-Davidson (Balance):

1990: 510,784
2000: 569,891

Population difference: 59,107 (11.6%)

unless a single company or perhaps 2-3 companys lease in one tower, then thats out...a tower would work.

the floor plate idea is for businesses that want to keep all their operations on the same floor, thus meaning they are so to say smaller than banks or financial firms.

^ yeah exactly...i was always thinking of on top Main Place Mall next to M.P. Tower on the long flat 2 story portion
I had that same EXACT thought yesterday as I was sitting at the light at Broadway/William/Ellicott facing the Liberty Building. What a frickin' waste of prime real estate, and probably the number one place to put a large tower, from a skyline-balancing standpoint, should the demand ever arise. Otherwise, given our somewhat conflicting love affairs with both historic structures and parking lots, anything tall ever built here is going to be on the outside of the CBD - an "inverse" skyline. So I would hope they'd consider that failed mall for demolition first for siting.

I also agree also that I'd rather see buildings in the 400-600 range here than 1000, for two reasons -

- Look at the Key Tower in Cleveland. One of my favorite buildings, but it dwarfs the rest of the city. Also similar to the Empire State Bldg in NYC when it was completed (a sign that Cleveland will follow? Probably not...).
- New buildings are inherently ugly (I think) when they try to mimic historic styles. I don't want new buildings if they're going to look like crap, but at least in the 400-600 range they can be ugly, but not almost eyesore-ish, so to speak. We can lay claim to architecture as a strong point. Nothing uglier than HSBC or City Court, please.

...I'd argue that that's better for "filling empty space" than a bunch of vinyl suburban homes on Genesee and William, right? ;)
I'd agree with you, were there such an intersection. :)
...The Galleria is stuck in the 80s so anything that can help it is good, I 'spose. Great news on Southwest, too.
Most suburban malls are, of the ones I've been in at least. Even apart from styling, they all reek '80s. But Galleria's got nothing on Main Place when it comes to '80s.

unless a single company or perhaps 2-3 companys lease in one tower, then thats out...a tower would work.

the floor plate idea is for businesses that want to keep all their operations on the same floor, thus meaning they are so to say smaller than banks or financial firms.
Not really National fuel moved out primarily because of the floor plate issue. It becomes ver cumbersome to be on 20 floor, employees spend a lot of time in elevators

Here's the tower's website, if you don't believe it's real.

http://www.signaturetowernashville.com

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2006/01/30/daily40.html

Now, the building was originally unveiled at 55 stories by Chicago architect Lucien Lagrange . It was majorly blasé - hardly worthy of being a "signature tower."

It was then redesigned (with the same 55 stories) by Smallwood, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart & Associates where it then reached 800 feet (with spire).

It has now been redesigned again and has lost the hotel component in favor of more residential space (hence the 1,000 figure).



Heh, and if you think a posting on a local forum from one citizen is an "article," so be it.

According to the real Census Bureau:

Nashville-Davidson (Balance):

1990: 510,784
2000: 569,891

Population difference: 59,107 (11.6%)

My post was not from a blog it was written by a reporter in the Business section of the Tennessean lamenting the high taxes in davidson county.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/NEWS05/602190372/1022/BUSINESS

^ Broken link.

I'd agree with you, were there such an intersection. :)

Sargeant, I didn't say that Genesee and William Intersected. Drive on both streets right outside of downtown and you'll see what I'm talking about. Both streets are lined with vinyl siding homes straight out of the suburbs.

Now you're just being a smartass ;)

Most suburban malls are, of the ones I've been in at least. Even apart from styling, they all reek '80s. But Galleria's got nothing on Main Place when it comes to '80s.

Main Place is more nasty 70s... Although I do love the empty boxes stacked in the storefronts that say MAIN PLACE MALL!

I wonder why M&T, HSBC and all the others are still dowtown, and not in Amherst?

I've heard, and it's easy to see that the Tishman is old and probably needs work, maybe that was an easy and innocent excuse to move out of downtown for National Fuel...instead of saying downtown and the city with no cars on main and taxes higher than needed just couldn't compete with the suburbs, where all the workers likely lived anyways...something to think about.

I have a quick question for you guys:

How many of you have lived other places than Buffalo?

I know several of you have lived outside of the area for an extended period of time(bjfan82, BuffCity, etc.), but I am just curious.

- Look at the Key Tower in Cleveland. One of my favorite buildings, but it dwarfs the rest of the city. Also similar to the Empire State Bldg in NYC when it was completed (a sign that Cleveland will follow? Probably not...).
Not only does the Key Tower in Cleveland dwarf the rest of the city. It sits out in the middle of "nowhere" on its own...even more so than HSBC Tower.

- New buildings are inherently ugly (I think) when they try to mimic historic styles. I don't want new buildings if they're going to look like crap, but at least in the 400-600 range they can be ugly, but not almost eyesore-ish, so to speak. We can lay claim to architecture as a strong point. Nothing uglier than HSBC or City Court, please.

exactly, Adelphia Tower is the first one that comes to mind as a building supposed to be built in the 21st century that looks like it was built in the 1930s. The 1930s was 70ish years ago, get over it and build something new looking.

And I don't wanna see any Brutalism (Buffalo News Building) or Communism (Donovan State Office Building) styles anymore.

I'd argue that that's better for "filling empty space" than a bunch of vinyl suburban homes on Genesee and William, right? ;)


I'm not so sure I agree with this actually. I think those suburban style homes are terrific along those streets. It makes that part of Buffalo look a hell of a lot better than vacant/boarded up homes. If some outsider was considering moving to Buffalo and saw what was there before they would say f**k Buffalo...But atleast with this newer stock of homes it gives Buffalo a chance to get people to move into the city.

Well, before I moved to Buffalo, I saw it and thought "What the fuck is this doing almost downtown?"

But then again, I'm not the average Joe ;)

How many of you have lived other places than Buffalo?
I lived in Concord, NH from 5/01 to 5/05, and before that went to school in Potsdam, NY from 9/96 to 5/01. So before this past May, I had effectively been away for almost 9 years.

Let it also be known that I didn't even try to find a job here after school; you can't blame a job market when you don't even look. Although my decision not to look was part bad impression, part wanting to get the hell out.

I have a quick question for you guys:

How many of you have lived other places than Buffalo?

I was born and raised near Augusta, Maine. Then I went to High School near Buffalo, NY (actually about 50 miles South of Buffalo) and then spent 8 years after High School living in NYC. I have lived in Buffalo now for about 5 years.

I live in Chicago and also lived in Boston

Buffalo will probably see a group of 15-20 storey mixed use buildings like City Centre. There was a golden opportunity for Healthnow to build a 25 story building, but they went low rise and big floor plates. That was the best opportunity- for at least a while to build an office only skyscraper. I'd bet there will be a new office/condo/hotel type building within the next few years. Isn't a 15 storey building planned for the waterfront already?

Does Niagara Falls count?

I currently live outside of Sacramento; Boomtown in the big tomatoe here.

Buffalo will probably see a group of 15-20 storey mixed use buildings like City Centre. There was a golden opportunity for Healthnow to build a 25 story building, but they went low rise and big floor plates. That was the best opportunity- for at least a while to build an office only skyscraper. I'd bet there will be a new office/condo/hotel type building within the next few years. Isn't a 15 storey building planned for the waterfront already?


Yes there is a good size condo project planned for the waterfront. It will be 14 stories over two stories of parking. It is being planned with high ceilings, so it will be a little taller than your average residential building. I spoke with a real estate professional today who will be marketing the units - they are looking to go to pre-sales soon.

^ I bet that it comes in at about 200-220 feet. I'd like to see a number of buildings of this size go up around the city. Put a couple of mixed use building around Chippewa and down by the Cobblestione area.

How many of you have lived other places than Buffalo?
I lived in Detroit

Well, before I moved to Buffalo, I saw it and thought "What the fuck is this doing almost downtown?"

But then again, I'm not the average Joe ;)

Yeah, none of us are average joe's, we're the 1% of the population that sees things the way we do, from an urban planning perspective. Sometimes you have to look at things through the prism of an average Joe. This is one case where I do.

Does Niagara Falls count?

I currently live outside of Sacramento; Boomtown in the big tomatoe here.

Didn't you guys have the AAA All Star game this year or last year? I think Sacramento is one of those cities "in the conversation" for an MLB Team, not necessarily a front runner though.

Didn't you guys have the AAA All Star game this year or last year? I think Sacramento is one of those cities "in the conversation" for an MLB Team, not necessarily a front runner though.

It may have been this year. I laugh when they call their putzy little stadium the best in the minors! It is new, but it isn't Pilot Field/DT Park, and it isn't in the heart of downtown like it either.

Funny I was talking about removing the I-190 tolls yesterday, I got this in my email today, if anyone is interested/cares -

Message follows:

Dear Anti-Toll Friend,

Knowing of your interest in eliminating Thruway tolls from the commuting area of Buffalo, I wanted to be sure you were aware of a public hearing that will be held on this issue on Thursday, March 2 at 10:00 in the Buffalo and Erie County Library Auditorium at One Lafayette Square.

I was very pleased that the Chairman of the NYS Assembly Committee Transportation agreed to our request to hold this hearing. I also want to thank committee member Assemblyman Sam Hoyt for his work in bringing this hearing to Buffalo. Hopefully this will be a key step in bringing the removal of Thruway tolls one step closer to reality.

Sincerely,

David J. Swarts

Erie County Clerk

I'm not so sure I agree with this actually. I think those suburban style homes are terrific along those streets. It makes that part of Buffalo look a hell of a lot better than vacant/boarded up homes. If some outsider was considering moving to Buffalo and saw what was there before they would say f**k Buffalo...But atleast with this newer stock of homes it gives Buffalo a chance to get people to move into the city.

bjfan82 You dont know how right you are. In the mid 60s, when construction first began on those homes in "The Fruit Belt," many from out of town said just that, "f**k Buffalo". That area used to look like Longapo, (Shit River) in the Philippines back then. Older folks that have not been to B-lo sense then still echo those sentiments, but today, like you say, with first impressions being everything, the new homes give Buffalo a fighting chance.

most of my life i've been in buffalo or rochester.
minus about three years between portland,or and greenville,sc.

It may have been this year. I laugh when they call their putzy little stadium the best in the minors! It is new, but it isn't Pilot Field/DT Park, and it isn't in the heart of downtown like it either.

how many does this stadium seat?
i remember recently sacramento getting praise for all the tickets they've sold since building that place. leading the minors the past couple years with over 11,000 a game.
i got a kick out of this because its not even close to over 16000 buffalo averaged for ten years after they built pilot field.

screw all that small tv market and over extended sports market crap.
buffalo should've gotten a team.

I don't want this to turn into one of those 'vs' arguements, but since you ask- this is Raley Field (seats 14,680) in W. Sacramento, just across the Sacramento River from downtown Sacramento:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8567/sacramento14bk.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3734/sacramento24ho.jpg

The real deal?:

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3518/dunntire014pq.jpg

Keep in mind Dunn Tire Park seats over 20,000. So it is a much bigger stadium. The bisons also used to outdraw some of the major league teams when they first started playing. In fact, I think the team still has some attendance records for the minors...

Today, attendance averages around 9,000 per game (a bit under 600,000 per year I think). In it's prime, it was well over 1,000,000.

I have no idea where the Sacramento stadium is located and to be honest I don't really care, but relative to other minor league stadiums you really can't balk at Dunn Tire Park. If you do, you have no idea what you're talking about.

That's my 2 cents.

Oh...and hello everyone. ;-)

Funny I was talking about removing the I-190 tolls yesterday, I got this in my email today, if anyone is interested/cares -

Message follows:

Dear Anti-Toll Friend,

Knowing of your interest in eliminating Thruway tolls from the commuting area of Buffalo, I wanted to be sure you were aware of a public hearing that will be held on this issue on Thursday, March 2 at 10:00 in the Buffalo and Erie County Library Auditorium at One Lafayette Square.

I was very pleased that the Chairman of the NYS Assembly Committee Transportation agreed to our request to hold this hearing. I also want to thank committee member Assemblyman Sam Hoyt for his work in bringing this hearing to Buffalo. Hopefully this will be a key step in bringing the removal of Thruway tolls one step closer to reality.

Sincerely,

David J. Swarts

Erie County Clerk


w00t!!!

Welcome --

They actually reduced the seating at DT, if I'm correct, by cutting out the bleacher section and replacing it with the Heron's Landing thing. Let's also not forget that Pilot Field (as it was known at the time) was always intended to be expandable, to be able to add an upper deck. In which case I would assume it'd be able to hold somewhere between 35-40k. Smallish for the majors, but nothing to laugh at. As it is now, it's fairly gargantuan for the minors.

BTW I'm glad we didn't get the Expos. I like the NL game but I prefer AL teams, and I wouldn't want to lose the Bisons. Too much history there to just "sell your soul" for MLB.

I don't want to sound too critical, but that Sacramento stadium looks like any A or AA park somewhere in the midwest, but with a glitzy facade. Just needs a few more ads on the warning track to complete the impression. I should ask the guy I work with from CA, he lived in Sacramento until a few years ago - see if he thinks the same (I think he's a baseball fan, at least he's said on numerous occasions that he hates the Dodgers).

I've always wondered what the stadium would look like if they had built it turned around the other way - skyline in the background. Of course the main entrance wouldn't be as convenient to downtown, so maybe that's why they made the decision. I just like stadiums where you can see the city. Think PNC Park in Pittsburgh (most beautiful view in any stadium, IMO), Camden Yards in Baltimore, etc. Same goes for Yankee stadium, it's facing the wrong direction. Although then we wouldn't have had the infamous "The Bronx is on fire!" radio call.

To back up my argument:
http://home.adelphia.net/~sargeantcm/ssc/04.jpg
http://home.adelphia.net/~sargeantcm/ssc/05.jpg

BTW I'm glad we didn't get the Expos. I like the NL game but I prefer AL teams, and I wouldn't want to lose the Bisons. Too much history there to just "sell your soul" for MLB.



the expos, well maybe no
but seeing as the florida marlins want to move, and buffalo was one of the lead cities in the running when florida and colorado got a team.
they should have put that stupid florida team in buffalo to begin with.
they're like all the other teams in miami. kind of sells tickets when they're good(yeah kind of) and can't when they're not. i guess playing in a football stadium can't help them.
MLB choosing miami was just them choosing advertising market over ticket sales and fan support.

Did anyone else notice that a new furniture store opened up on Genesee Street downtown - the 100 block.

From: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060224/1072748.asp

I didn't know the AMC was closing! Does anyone know what's happening with the Bon-Ton that's closing?

I can't think of anything else that could be put in the mall, if and when they expand either...Any thoughts?
_____________________________________
Best Buy plans to build store at Walden Galleria near Sears
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
2/24/2006

Best Buy, the nation's No. 1 electronics chains, will take up residence in the Walden Galleria later this year, kicking off what's expected to a long-awaited expansion blitz at the regional shopping center.
The Minnesota-based retail chain, which currently has only one store in the Buffalo market, has filed a request for a building permit with the Town of Cheektowaga seeking to build a 50,000-square-foot store on the north end of the Galleria, near Sears.

The $2 million project would see the big box retailer take over space on the mall's lower level currently occupied by The Limited shops and extending out onto what is now a surface parking area.

The Limited will relocate to small quarters.

Galleria General Manager James Soos confirmed Best Buy's plans and said it will bring a new group of shoppers to the mall.

"It brings an exciting new merchandise category to the Galleria. We believe Best Buy is the best when it comes to consumer electronics and are very excited to have them here," Soos said.

The store is expected to open this summer.

This is actually the second time Best Buy has signaled an interest in setting up shop at the Galleria. In January 2003, the electronics giant said it planned to take over the AMC movie theater space on the upper level of the mall, off the food court. That plan was part of a larger mall renovation concept that did not move forward.

Town sources said Thursday that Best Buy's building permit application is the first step in an ambitious dining and entertainment component to the nearly 17-year-old shopping destination.

As The Buffalo News reported in April 2005, the Pyramid Corp., which owns the mall, is working on a sweeping update of the north end of the retail complex that is expected to include new theaters, multiple restaurants, a newly created "indoor boulevard" of shops, and a new parking deck.

Another hint of things that Pyramid's plans are starting to gel was Barnes & Noble's January announcement that it will join the mall lineup with a nearly 50,000-square-foot store. Town sources said the large-format book and media store will be located on two levels, taking a portion of the existing AMC cinema space.

Bon-Ton's exit from the mall last month has opened the way for that two-level retail space to be tapped for a portion of the ambitious retail makeover.

The project, which is said to have a price tag in excess of $50 million, is expected to be formally announced in time for the 2006 construction season.

Best Buy, which entered the Buffalo market in November 2000 with a store in Boulevard Consumer Square, off Niagara Falls Boulevard in Amherst, has proven to be a strong competitor despite having just one location. A late 2005 consumer survey by Scarborough Reports found 27 percent of local consumers had shopped Best Buy in the past 12 months, ranking it the area's No. 4 electronics seller.

In that survey, Wal-Mart topped the list, with 37 percent, followed by Circuit City, 36 percent and Target, at 31 percent. Those competitors all have multiple stores in the Buffalo market.

Benderson Development Corp. has been working to locate a Best Buy in the Town of Hamburg. The developer was eyeing a site on Mile Strip Road, but dropped the effort in January due to difficulties getting the parcel rezoned for commercial use.

Best Buy spokesman Jay Musolf said Buffalo is one of many New York markets in which the retailer is looking to increase its reach.

"We're definitely interested in adding stores. We're looking for opportunities to add convenient, unique and fun shopping experiences where we see demand for our products," Musolf said.

The company's U.S. stable of stores now stands at 741 units.

Soos said Pyramid has a strong relationship with Best Buy. The retailer has stores in several of Pyramid's malls, including its Carousel Mall in Syracuse and Crossgates in Albany.

Best Buy is not the first electronics retailer to tenant the Galleria. In its early years, the ill-fated Silo chain was part of the line-up. The mall lost that store in 1999 when its parent company folded.

^^Would MLB actually do well though. The Sabres aren't exactly doing that well, and there'd be 81 home games to host in Buffalo. That seems very extended.

...MLB choosing miami was just them choosing advertising market over ticket sales and fan support.
Well I know this is off-topic when it comes to Buffalo, but I can think of a dumber choice for expansion that MLB had come up with:

Tampa Bay

Let's see now, even non-Yankee fans can probably agree with this too:

- Thousands of retired NYers in the area, many of whom loigcally would still be Yankee fans. I would think of the area as an extended Yankees/Mets fanbase.
- Yankees have spring training there
- Yankees have a AA team there
- Abysmal attendance record (except vs Yankees)
- Consistently one of (if not) the first teams listed for contraction.

And I'm sure there are more examples...

By that standard, I think, Miami looks like an excellent choice. Probably as good a choice as putting an MLB team in Hartford, Providence, or Newark.

^^Would MLB actually do well though. The Sabres aren't exactly doing that well, and there'd be 81 home games to host in Buffalo. That seems very extended.

im not saying that buffalo would have been able to support baseball over the long haul. i do think they could consistently sell more tickets than atleast a couple cities with existing MLB teams.

BTW I'm glad we didn't get the Expos. I like the NL game but I prefer AL teams, and I wouldn't want to lose the Bisons. Too much history there to just "sell your soul" for MLB.


If Buffalo was to get an MLB team they would have to be NL (unless it is an AL team moving here) because lower payrolls can succeed more in this league partially due to not having to pay some old guy $10 million/year to DH. And if Buffalo ever became MLB we wouldn't have to throw away our history, they would still stay the Bisons. Did Buffalo baseball history get thrown away when we moved from AA to AAA? no.


Would MLB actually do well though. The Sabres aren't exactly doing that well, and there'd be 81 home games to host in Buffalo. That seems very extended.


I'm not so sure they would but we average around 8,000 or 9,000 right now (a couple years ago it was 11,000+) for 70+ home games of AAA Baseball. Throw in some major league players, the yankees coming to town, and tourism from Toronto-NF-Pitt-Cleveland-Roch (who normally wouldn't come for a Bisons game) and you could do fairly well. I could see how someone might think it would be overextended...but think about this...they would overlap the sabres for 1-2 months in the beginning of the season and overlap the Bills for 1-2 months at the end of the season...so they wouldn't be competing with the Bills or Sabres for the same customers.

Btw, yes the Sabres are exactly doing well! Selling out 90% of their last 15 games, the only games that didn't sellout (18,690 att.) had something like 17,900. So they are doing much better than anyone woulda thought, and they're profiting for the first time since the 80s.

^^ Yes, they stayed the Bisons, but didn't they also stay the "same" team, just switching leagues? That wouldn't happen if we "imported" a MLB team, unless the Bisons were to be upgraded.

From: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060224/1072748.asp

I didn't know the AMC was closing! Does anyone know what's happening with the Bon-Ton that's closing?

I can't think of anything else that could be put in the mall, if and when they expand either...Any thoughts?
_____________________________________

The expansion is going to include a new Regal Cinema - I believe 16 screens with stadium seating. Ruth's Chris Steakhouse,and Cheesecake Factory along with the Best Buy and Barnes and Noble. The other new stores have not been announced yet.

I also believe that there is some talk about a Bloomindales.

^^ I've heard the Bloomingdale's too. Don't remember where (maybe here?).

Then obviously Macy's as well, given the constant homogenization of American retail... I don't know how I feel on that one. Macy's is a big name, and not like Kaufmann's is something special; but damn, everywhere is just the same now. Maybe I'm the only one bothered by that...

The expansion is going to include a new Regal Cinema - I believe 16 screens with stadium seating.

It's already a Regal...so are they a gonna gut the 12-plex there now and add four more theaters?

^^ Yes, they stayed the Bisons, but didn't they also stay the "same" team, just switching leagues? That wouldn't happen if we "imported" a MLB team, unless the Bisons were to be upgraded.

oh please, lol, the Bisons roll over a new team every 2 years...either guys get traded or moved up to Cleveland. And even if the Bisons were an expansion team in 2007 (instead of importing the Expos or Marlins or DRays), they would do an expansion draft to get MLB players from other MLB Teams, not one current Bison would remain a Bison on the MLB roster unless traded for (assuming the player is MLB quality). And when we switched from AA to AAA in the early 80s I'm pretty sure they got a whole new team. AA talent is different from AAA talent, so they got a little upgrade of players. Tampa Bay, Denver, and Miami all had AAA teams prior to becoming MLB and they got all new rosters.

HAHAHAHA BUFFALO WITH A CHEESECAKE FACTCORY! PLEA#SE! WELCOME to birminghan 1998. WE TOO POROR! god, we'r epoor. but damnn can i we drunk.

Hehe....actually, we hold the top 6 seasons for highest attendance for minor league baseball teams. :-)

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/fans/page.jsp?ymd=20060128&content_id=39611&vkey=fans_t422&fext=.jsp&sid=t422

Thats pretty cool. I didn't realize we liked baseball so much around here.

HAHAHAHA BUFFALO WITH A CHEESECAKE FACTCORY! PLEA#SE! WELCOME to birminghan 1998. WE TOO POROR! god, we'r epoor. but damnn can i we drunk.
ah yes... I remember my first beer...

^^ that slop looks more like a case of liqour than a beer.

17 (15? Not sure anymore) shots of Southern Comfort plus some other "beverages" will do that to you. Perhaps WIGS will remember how many I had; he was with me ;)

Owww, my head. Sorry for the inappropriate post, but I still don't think Buffalo will be getting the Cheesecake Factory soon, though it is a possibility since they're a lot less "trendy" now. Same goes for PF Chang's.

It's already a Regal...so are they a gonna gut the 12-plex there now and add four more theaters?
No the Barnes and Noble is putting in a two story bokstore where the current cinema is. The common areas of the whole mall are going to be redone and brought into this century.

17 (15? Not sure anymore) shots of Southern Comfort plus some other "beverages" will do that to you. Perhaps WIGS will remember how many I had; he was with me ;)

Owww, my head. Sorry for the inappropriate post, but I still don't think Buffalo will be getting the Cheesecake Factory soon, though it is a possibility since they're a lot less "trendy" now. Same goes for PF Chang's.
The lease has already been signed for Cheesecake Factory and Ruth's Chris. Both will be in the new wing that is going up.

So where, exactly, is this new wing going? I'm imagining off the northeastern end towards Union Rd? Otherwise I can't think where else there's a whole heck of a lot of room.
The common areas of the whole mall are going to be redone and brought into this century.
I remember they were so proud of those when the place opened! The italian marble floor (something like 170,000 tiles or something?) that seems to hurt more to walk on than any other surface (God knows why), the 5 or 6 metal sculptures, etc. I can almost still picture that brochure...

As long as they don't destroy it like McKinley. I don't know why they needed to get rid of that gazebo thing. Maybe tacky, but better than what's there now. I would imagine they took the water out because they didn't want some dumbass falling in suing them, despite having the whole thing cordoned off in the first place. People...

...since they're a lot less "trendy" now...
Good for them. I hate trendy. (If I hear one more thing about Dave & Busters...) So maybe I'll actually visit them when they open.

Well, they're not listed as "future locations" on the company websites...

Oh well, if it's true, at least we'll be welcomed into the world of 1995 dining :D

^^ I suppose that's OK, unless by 1995 dining you mean paying upwards of $20 for a half-filled plate of something that leaves you wanting more by the time you leave. We already have Olive Garden. If that's the case, maybe I'll just go to Denny's...or better yet, Zebb's.

Half-filled plates? Aww, Buffalonians have no idea about the Cheesecake Factory ;)

By "world of 1995 dining" I meant that we're finally getting what everyone else got ten years ago. lol

Well, they're not listed as "future locations" on the company websites...

Oh well, if it's true, at least we'll be welcomed into the world of 1995 dining :D
Well, I've heard it directly from Jim, we've been friends since his Lockport days in the 80's. I do not think any of the new tenants would put it on their websites prior to formal site approval by the town as they would not have a tentative opening date until that time. Look for the official announcement in late May early June at the latest.

So where, exactly, is this new wing going? I'm imagining off the northeastern end towards Union Rd? Otherwise I can't think where else there's a whole heck of a lot of room.

I remember they were so proud of those when the place opened! The italian marble floor (something like 170,000 tiles or something?) that seems to hurt more to walk on than any other surface (God knows why), the 5 or 6 metal sculptures, etc. I can almost still picture that brochure...



On the Sear's side, along with a new parking ramp, I don't think they plan on getting rid of the HARRRRD floor though

^ The traffic coming in and out of the Galleria from that part of the mall onto Galleria Drive is already a disaster, especially with how it conflicts with the post office. This is gonna make it sooo much worse.

By "world of 1995 dining" I meant that we're finally getting what everyone else got ten years ago. lol
I've been to other places all over the east coast and never noticed a "difference". So what, really, is that supposed to mean? Chains, chains, and more chains? We do seem to be behind on that latest scourge, I'll give you that. Dining isn't something that changes much over time. If anything, it regresses.
^ The traffic coming in and out of the Galleria from that part of the mall onto Galleria Drive is already a disaster, especially with how it conflicts with the post office. This is gonna make it sooo much worse.
Yeah it is bad. Even on Union Rd, I can remember more than a few times trying to get out of Holiday Showcase around 6. Forget about it. Though maybe in hand with Union Rd being rebuilt, they can reconfigure that entrance. You'd almost think they'd have to. Plus that PO driveway has always been screwy.

I don't see how that will necessarily make traffic worse on Union since most of the new traffic will be coming in from the thruway. The locals neighborhood already shops there. I think the hope is to pull from a farther area as they did when the mall first opened, that traffic will come primarily from the 90 won't it?

Plus I am sure the traffic there must be nothing compared to what is experienced in places such as Nashville (Davidson Cty) Population 450,000

Yeah, that's what I meant, sargeant. I don't necessarily love chains, but to land the newest "hot" chains says something about a city's economic status. Remember Cyburbia? He said the same thing about Buffalo with lifestyle centers and upscale shopping - and you guys ate him alive. Sadly though, it's the truth.

Jerome, you're horrible when debating. It's 570,000 -geez.

I don't see how that will necessarily make traffic worse on Union since most of the new traffic will be coming in from the thruway. The locals neighborhood already shops there. I think the hope is to pull from a farther area as they did when the mall first opened, that traffic will come primarily from the 90 won't it?


I'm not talking about Union Road...I'm talking Galleria Drive...the main problem is that there are no left turn lanes, so if someone wants to turn left they have to do it from a through lane thus holding traffic up behind it. And then having the post office driveway conflicting with the cars trying to get into (former) Sears just makes it more complicated.

Tex - You are not worth taking the time to look up the exact number for..so I ball parked it.

I'm not talking about Union Road...I'm talking Galleria Drive...the main problem is that there are no left turn lanes, so if someone wants to turn left they have to do it from a through lane thus holding traffic up behind it. And then having the post office driveway conflicting with the cars trying to get into (former) Sears just makes it more complicated.
Oh, well it looks like they the room to redo the road and add lanes if necessary, I would think it is the malls interest to make for easy access. But I really think that most of the additional traffic will head out the other way towards Walden and the 90.

QUOTE DallasTexan

Oh well, if it's true, at least we'll be welcomed into the world of 1995 suburban toursit chain restaurant dining.

Of course that is the only kind of dining there IS in Birmimgham.

DT you are not serious about comparing Buffalo Food to Birmingham ar you?

By the way guys all this mall talk....really exciting...

Tex - You are not worth taking the time to look up the exact number for..so I ball parked it.

Right. I'm the one who has been on the forums for six years and have actually lived in other places. God forbid I have an outsider's perspective on things!

Of course that is the only kind of dining there IS in Birmimgham.

Of course, steel! I mean, someone with your vast knowledge of the city would know, right? A growing city that is able to support both upscale chains AND local restaurants is just simply not possible. My point went right over your collective heads, yet again.

DT you are not serious about comparing Buffalo Food to Birmingham ar you?

Outside of chicken wings, beef on weck, and fish frys, fuck yes. The selection of both regional cuisine and ethnic foods (outside of Italian) simply trump the offerings in Buffalo. I've lived in both and have experienced both - and I'd say by my stature that I know food, heh.

I'm not saying Buffalo has bad food, though - it's quite good. But, if you want to compare, bring it.

Lifestyle centers. Hah! Try substituting "Obese, obnoxious, wasteful, lazy" for lifestyle (which is a moronic word in and of itself - By these yuppies' definition, Attilla the Hun had an "active, outdoor lifestyle"). Because that's apparently what the target clientele are. While at first I had no idea what they were, I can now proudly say "Been there, done that". Give me the next thing. Over Christmas I visited a new one in Columbia, SC (Village at Sandhills) and was quite unimpressed. But since I already said this a few days ago in the Rochester forum, I'll just repeat it. I challenge somebody to prove my perceptions wrong:

"...You had lazy people driving from storefront to storefront (aparently Americans aren't fat enough), and there were constantly tires screetching and horns honking in the fake "roundabout" in the middle because apparently everybody was late driving to the next store apparently. Needless to say they were predominantly SUVs and the place reeked of exhaust. It had all the character of a completely sterilized downtown without the city, so afrophobic white people can feel safe while shopping. It was still half vacant, and didn't have much variety in stores that were there (unlike an indoor mall where you can usually accomplish one-stop shopping)."

When you boil it all down, the only difference from a typical suburban shopping mall is that you can easily drive from store to store as opposed to walking. How improved. This will help our trade deficit, foreign oil dependence, and health care problems all with one fell swoop! Keep 'em away, and pray the places that have them wake up.

BTW February 2006 - Sept 2002 = 3.5 years, not 6. Even me and my 1978 Buffalo Math can figure that out. Unless that's all changed by a factor of 1.71 since.

No offense, but either Birmingham is the world's best kept secret food mecca, or you're full of [']it. I mean, seriously, what are you looking for? A Laotian-Kenyan-Arabian-Slovakian food district? What we have here in terms of ethnic or regional offerings can at least run with anywhere I've seen between Portland, ME and Orlando. (Yes, Orlando, all it is is chains, like anywhere else).

And don't give me the whole "upscale" spiel either. As if we're the only region in America with slobbish NFL culture. Face it, it's the norm. Scarred face, teeth broken off at the gumline - the "true" face of America. Just be glad you don't live on the "other side" of typical. Just be glad we're only "NFL", and not "NASCAR", not yet anyways.

As for outsider's perspectives - many (if not most) of us here have gained an outsider's perspective. Sure, they're probably quite skewed. But that's what perspectives are. And you can't expect to come into a place and shit all over it (whether or not it's good-intentioned), and meet some form of resistance. If you need an analogy (and this is way overblown, I'll admit) - think Iraq War. Insurgency? You strap a gun over your shoulder and go walking around some other man's country, you better bet he's going to resist - doesn't matter who's "right".

So if my insular, backwards opinion is worth anything, find some way to enjoy it here before the rest of your homogenized America fully kills it off. Way I see it, we're probably one of (one of, not the only) the last bastions of what this country was and used to stand for, so you can imagine why I get a little peeved at these comments. A small part of me honestly would rather see this city die a slow death before being engulfed in the endless swamp of blah that typifies this country (not everywhere, fortunately some areas still have some identifying traces); thereby being able to remember it as what it was and not something it isn't.
----
I apologize for the rant, but sometimes I need to vent. Now that that unpleasantness is behind us, let's move on -

You all are missing my point again. I personally don't care for lifestyle centers myself (I won't deny that I do like upscale shopping, though). It's just the fact that the area doesn't have these amenties if you desire them. You CAN have local culture and upscale chains co-existing together without a problem. It's not just upscale shopping, it's several other things -- for example, where are our upscale hotel chains? Are they too homogeneous as well?

I prefer downtown shopping - when I lived in downtown Birmingham, I utilized everything the core had to offer - we had a real downtown department store, clothing stores, you name it - but if I wanted to go out to the suburbs and shop say, at Crate and Barrel, I had that option.

You say that you're just against the homogenization of America, but I think it's more along the lines of making excuses to yourself why Buffalo doesn't have these things.

Ironically, I was talking to nostyle a few days ago about this exact thing. he relocated to the South after growing up in Buffalo, but still holds this city near and dear to his heart. To quote from his private message (if he doesn't mind):

"There's a bury-your-head-in-the-sand mentality in Buffalo, a defeatist attitude, that has eaten away at the city for over a century now. People there don't realize what life is like outside of WNY, and seem to almost ENJOY the underdog blue-collar 'whoa is me' way of life that Buffalonians live and die by. Everything is NYC's fault. Nothing can ever been done about the corrupt government so why bother trying to make it change? And so on and so on. A defeated attitude along with an acceptance that Buffalo will slowly rot away and fall off into the lake. It wore me out."

With what I've seen so far, I agree with this statement completely.

As for the cuisine, you'd have to experience both cities to see what I'm saying. I especially miss the downtown dining options I had previously -- all were local too, unlike the TGI Friday's on Main Street. My, how homogeneous! ;)

Oh, and by the way - the six years was referring to SSP. Look there.

This dump wasn't created until '02 :D

I'm not making excuses, even if I were, I'm not the one in the position to make them. I'll flat out say I don't want them. For example, I miss the days when you had more department stores than Target and Walmart. I just don't see how this is better.

I also don't see it as a defeatist attitude. Sure, some people really are defeatist; and I'm not speaking for them. I see it as a different paradigm. While I, too, enjoy the "underdog" culture; it's certainly not "woe is me", not in my book. There's a contradiction with that last one. I prefer to think of it as the opposite of arrogant, yet still an amount of pride. Honest and hardworking. True, sometimes, some of the attitudes around here "wear me out", so to speak, as well. But if I think my life would be different somewhere else, it wouldn't. I've already tried it, and it only got worse. Corny, but to quote the Wizard of Oz, "I know that if I ever go looking for my heart's desire, I'll never go any further than my own back yard. For if it isn't there, I never really lost it." And what I do like it seeing the seeds of progress and rejuvenation being sown today. I'll take slow progress over fear of peaking and wondering what the downside holds. We've already had that.

As for homogenization, there are fortunately, areas in the country that are trying, unsuccessfully as they may be, to hold onto their past and heritage while moving forward. Much of New England (northern especially) is a good example. East Aurora is probably the best example in our own backyard. A village that never truly lost what many other places are trying to achieve/regain. These places prove you don't need upscale this or that to be sucessful. The other end of the spectrum, quaintness (I suppose is what you'd call it). As much as a city can have of that, I'll take (and I'm not saying Buffalo is).

If I'm truly unhappy about something, it's the direction of the country as a whole. Buffalo is just the microcosm. If I'll lament anything, it's "better days", a way of life gone by. Maybe Buffalo is the vehicle through which I express that, if so, so be it. Even if I lived in Charlotte, I'd still be me, and I'd still have the same convictions. Is it any coincidence that as the culture, the way of life that made this country great has slowly eroded, we too have fallen? I mean, yeah, we're still pretty good, and I can't think of anyplace else that I'd rather live. But we've sure lost alot of ground.

Some pics of Delaware Avenue from this afternoon:


The Church - scaffolding has been removed and the new entrance at the parking side looks complete.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8207/thechurch021ba.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1133/thechurch018ur.jpg



Tupper street addition. I think this was completed a while ago actually...

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1057/tupperaddition5mi.jpg



591 Delaware - It was a 3-walled roofless shell without floors or ceilings only a year ago. Now it is enclosed again with floors and windows. Still more work to be done, but a big improvement. I'm sure there was financial pressure to just tear the thing down.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3163/591delwarerenovations5yz.jpg



This bldg was abandoned for a while and had a complete facade makeover. Does anyone know who is moving in?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9804/delawarerenovations018ka.jpg

For comparison... 591 Delaware two years ago (from the backside looking out to Delaware Ave... there were no walls left in the back)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4460/591delawaregutted9gb.jpg

Some pics of Delaware Avenue from this afternoon:

Looks good. You know, I drive by that every morning, and it was a real pain in the arse when they'd have the right turn lane onto Tupper blocked with something and you didn't see until it was right on you (great construction warning sign package). So it's nice to see it finished on a couple of levels!

Oh, well it looks like they the room to redo the road and add lanes if necessary, I would think it is the malls interest to make for easy access. But I really think that most of the additional traffic will head out the other way towards Walden and the 90.

I dont' agree with that...if cars are where the Sears parking lot is now, why cut accross the mall parking lot at 10mph with tons of stop signs when you can just exit on to galleria drive and get on the 90 EB/WB ramps. But regardless, I've spoken with the town of Cheektowaga about Galleria Dr...eventually they want to have it widened to add the left turn lanes, but I think we were waiting for some development like this to give them more justification and possbly have Best Buy pay for the improvements.

Does anyone know what's going on with the 'Midway' townhouses on Delaware Ave? Last year Lord Chumleys restaurant closed and since then it seems every building there has added a For Lease sign out front. I noticed today one had "Price Reduced" added to the sign.

Why is everybody bailing out of the Midway at the same time??
Also got a shot of this while I was driving around... hopefully it's just normal turnover. The midway is one of my favorite spots in Buffalo.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8268/midwayforlease6yp.jpg

You all are missing my point again. I personally don't care for lifestyle centers myself (I won't deny that I do like upscale shopping, though). It's just the fact that the area doesn't have these amenties if you desire them. You CAN have local culture and upscale chains co-existing together without a problem. It's not just upscale shopping, it's several other things -- for example, where are our upscale hotel chains? Are they too homogeneous as well?

I prefer downtown shopping - when I lived in downtown Birmingham, I utilized everything the core had to offer - we had a real downtown department store, clothing stores, you name it - but if I wanted to go out to the suburbs and shop say, at Crate and Barrel, I had that option.

As for the cuisine, you'd have to experience both cities to see what I'm saying. I especially miss the downtown dining options I had previously -- all were local too, unlike the TGI Friday's on Main Street. My, how homogeneous! ;)


DT

It is you that does not get the point.

Almost everyone on here understands Buffalo's situation perfectly clearly. There is an excitement that Buffalo seems to finally be shaking off its stagnation and is doing things it has not done for many years. If you knew Buffalo you would know what the difference is. At the same time no one wants buffalo to follow in the tracks of some crap hole chain restaurant south west sprawl city. So when you come on touting how Birmingham is the rats ass because its Cheesecake Factory is 6 years old you sound a bit desperate.

You have trashed every city you live in so it is only expected that you do the same for Buffalo. Most people on here did respond that they have or do live someplace besides Buffalo. Of course it is hard to live up to the standards of urban bliss you have experienced in Nashville and Birmingham, so cut us some slack. Oh by the way that recent photo thread on DT Nashville....Wow not that is one hopping town....How can Buffalo ever compete with that....Puhleeeeeeze! Buffalo steps all over that even with its crappy economy and lack of chains.

As for the responses by the children give em a break! They know not what the speak.

Once you try a few of Buffalo's restaurants that don't serve wings you will get a better impression of what is available. by the way Chicago's Cheesecake Factory is about 13 years old an I can proudly say that neither I nor any of my friends have ever partaken of its fine food

Sure, steel. Whatever you say. I get the message loud and clear.

FYI, Nashville is one of the least favourtie cities that I've lived in - but I do admire what's being done in the core of the city in regards to urban development, as over 2.5 billion dollars of private money is currently being invested into downtown. Cincinnati and Philadelphia were clearly the best that I've experienced and my love for the Ohio Valley is akin to your love for this area.

Birmingham's not the "rat's ass" because it has a Cheesecake Factory - no, quite the contrary. It's won my heart because the appreciation of historical architecture and rejuvenation of the inner city on a massive scale -- projects such as the conversion of the 27 story neo-classical City Federal Building (1913) into luxury condos (which I directly had a hand in, if you recall), the restoration of the historic Lyric Theatre (the city's third restored movie palace), and the implementation of the city's master plan is fantastic. I could go on, but there's just too much to list for one simple post.

I do like Buffalo - it's located in a wonderful area. I love being close to Canada and the Niagara region as well as the rest of the Eastern Seaboard. The area does have quite a bit to offer, and if utilized correctly, it will come back some day. The city's got my backing 150%. I'm just shocked that so many people here (on the boards, not in real life) feel that a true "renaissance" is happening - which could be due to the fact that it HAS been so dead here in the past few decades. I don't know; it just seems amusing to me at times, but any historic renovations and civic projects that will better life in Buffalo I support wholeheartedly. I've never been labeled as a sprawl loving hatemonger until I moved to Buffalo. Go figure :|

I won't even go into the "crap hole chain restaurant south west sprawl city" comment -- whatever that is. The average Joe in Buffalo would love to have some of these despicable chains - at least for another dining option. Remember, truly successful cities can manage to have chains while maintaining a strong, irreplaceable local character.

But, I digress.

And for your information, I have tried many of Buffalo's finer restaurants - and I stand by what I say. Buffalo's not always going to be the best in every area, you know. Shocking, but true. Now, I will say that Buffalo does own in the number of bars/nightclubs. I've never seen people drink so much in my life ;)


Besides, if you think it's so fantastic here, move back. Wouldn't that make sense?

Perhaps I will move back

I don't know Birmingham or Nashville i do know that many "new" cities have a heavy reliance on chains with very little on the order of originality. Of course even the people are mostly form someplace else in those cities. When I am on Michigan Ave in Chicago I can't believe how excited the Suburban Tourist croud gets over CK Factory Disney Store etc. It is just gross to think that this is the standard of quality that we set. So to measure up Buffalo has to have these things. And sure Buffalo is behind but I am not going to get excited about the fact that Buffalo gets CK Factory 8 years after Birmingham.

i am not claiming that Buffalo has some special wisdom that alowed it to escape that hell for a longer time but I can claim that Buffalo is a lot more of an original and real place than many of these places that thrive on this crap.

America has been homoginized into blandness and it is starting to affect the quality and creativeness of our country. Check out John Kass's piece on the Sunday Tribune about the closeing of an old time Chicago restaurant to make way for a new tower. This story explains my thought perfectly.

Buffalo has been down and out for a long long time and it finaly shows some signs of something happening. Even in it beaten up chainless state i would take it over many cities because of its authenticness. Thats not to say it is the best at everything but I am willing to bet it is around a lot longer than some of oour more popular high growth cities.

No bUffalo is not experienceing a TRUE renaisance. That will not happen until NYS gets ist act together and the WNY population starts to grow. But renewed energy in the city IS real and you as a new commer might find it hard to see.

Well, good. At least we're finding some common ground and agreeing on some things - I understand your point more clearly now.

....but I'll argue that Birmingham's not your average Sunbelter, either ;)

It too died in the 1960s due to it being the only "industrial" city in the south.

From Wikipedia...

Through the middle of the 20th century, Birmingham was the primary industrial center of the Southern United States. The astonishing pace of Birmingham's growth through the turn of the century, earned it the nicknames "The Magic City" and "The Pittsburgh of the South". Birmingham's major industries centered around iron and steel production."

It also helped that the city was actually founded by people from Pittsburgh and was fed by immigrants to work in the steel mills. With the city's primary boom occurring before 1950, it has a wealth of historical architecture that is still largely intact since the decline from the 60s-80s didn't necessitate the razing of buildings since there was no need to do so.

Ahh, the best of both worlds... great architecture, a cohesive urban fabric, and a sense of place combined with warm weather :D

Well, goodnight.

hey guys, there is another Democrat running for the Governors seat...the Nassau County Executive.

I'm a Republican and a conservitive, but I'd give this guy a shot over Spitzer anyday. BTW, he turned Nassau around big time, what has Spitzer done?

As for Tommy G...I think he just knows that ever since he bought a Stanley Cup this year, the Sabres are gonna be way to wild for him to be the big man in Albany..lol.

hey guys, there is another Democrat running for the Governors seat...the Nassau County Executive.

I'm a Republican and a conservitive, but I'd give this guy a shot over Spitzer anyday. BTW, he turned Nassau around big time, what has Spitzer done?


In case you were living in a shell (j/k :) ) "The Iron Fist" has made a name for himself cracking down on white collar crimes...i.e. false advertising, insider trading, tax fraud, etc and according to the news a couple weeks ago has the highest approval rating for any attorney general in America, that doesn't say a hell of a lot though cuz most people in every other state don't even know who their attorney general is. When I lived in California I used to see Eliot on tv busting crooks more than I did Arnold (until all the Arnold riots and protests started anyways). Anyone see him on the Colbert Report a couple weeks ago?