Charlotte Condo Development News

[Style™]

since the other thread is at 500 posts (the max), here is part II of the thread.

Old thread can be found by clicking here (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=168918)

:cheers:

[uptownliving]

umm ok, guess I will try and see how it works out:
update on the Alpha Mill Apartments.
http://www.narmourwright.com/projects/images/alpha_mill1.jpg
Crosland has now been granted $6M in building permits for both the renovation of the 120 year old mill building and for a new 4 story building. This property is located at the corner of E 12th St and N Brevard St right by 277. It is also adjacent to the future NE LRT line.
http://www.narmourwright.com/projects/images/alpha_mill2.jpg http://www.narmourwright.com/projects/images/alpha_mill3.jpg

The focal point of this 161-unit apartment community will be the renovation of two historic buildings that were originally constructed in 1888-89 as part of the Alpha Cotton Mill. The apartment units in the renovated buildings will feature exposed brick interiors, high ceilings with exposed beams, and oversize windows. Some of the second story units will also include a lofted bedroom. In addition to the renovated units, Alpha Mill will also include newly constructed apartment homes. These buildings will complement the exterior architecture of the historic mill buildings, and the units will recreate the loft style of the renovated units. In addition to the unique floor plans, residents of Alpha Mill will enjoy a a resort-style pool and amenity area, rooftop terrace with dramatic views of the Charlotte skyline, and the convenience of being within walking distance of Uptown Charlotte's jobs, restaurants, and nightlife. Construction has begun with occupancy in 2007.

[uptownliving]

Courtside should receive its Certificate of Occupancy today or tomorrow. As soon as they get that then they can close on the units and people can move in. Courtside is sold out.

They are seeking a rezoning so that they can move the power lines across the street on 6th/Davidson/Caldwell and put up decorative lighting on the block and also put up metal masts for the stoplights at Caldwell/6th and Davidson/6th. Blvd Centro is paying about $500K to have this done. Council should vote to approve this rezoning next month.

[uptownliving]

Here is the latest rendering for The Quad which is the first of four buildings that are part of Blvd Centro's Quarterside development in First Ward.

http://home.carolina.rr.com/willhaden/images/quad.JPG

This is the view from 7th St at the Myers St intersection looking towards 6th St.

[Style™]

eh. it looks rather bland. i think that they should be pushing for more density on those few plots of land. i mean, there will be streetcar right next to them with the city's current plans for their 'spoke' system.

[uptownliving]

The streetcar won't be next to the Quad which is on Myers St...it will be next to the other building on McDowell which will be 8 stories tall.

The building does look bland because we have become used to Furman's designs now and this building is almost a duplicate of the Village of South End.

[Justadude]

First Ward isn't going to be an architecturally extravagant part of the city... nor should it be, if they're intending to keep unit prices low enough to remain mixed-income.

[krazeeboi]

The red and green partial facades fronting the street prevent the structure from being totally bland, methinks. Not too bad; definitely could be much worse.

[uptownliving]

First Ward isn't going to be an architecturally extravagant part of the city... nor should it be, if they're intending to keep unit prices low enough to remain mixed-income.

Keep in mind that the BofA Corp Center, Hearst Tower, Spirit Square, and Afro Am Cultural Center are all in First Ward and many people would label them as "architecturally extravagant"

With regards to this development it will all be market rate...which for Blvd Centro puts it in the $225 per sq ft range. Land values in First Ward range from a low of $1M per acre to more than $10M per acre closer to the square.

Across the street from this project is where some subsidized apartments will be built and mixed in with market rate apartments.

[Style™]

speaking of the decrotavie things that they are putting up on Courtside - has anyone noticed that the city has spent a lot of money to move the street signs at all intersections (with lights) from the two corners into the middle of the intersection? It looks rather tacky. I havent seen one of the intersections that has two names (such as McKee and Ballantyne Commons/Providence Road West).

its nice to see one of our first condo towers in uptown completed (courtside). it being sold out pretty much sets the stage for what is to come.

also - i think all of the utilities in uptown should be put underground and all intersections should have the metal masts so its more uniform throughout the area. it just makes a little more sense

[Style™]

A California real estate company is eyeballing the 112 S. Tryon St. building for possible conversion to residential condos.

Built in 1928, the 140,000-square-foot office tower is one of Charlotte's few remaining buildings from its era.

And Irvine, Calif.-based Crown Realty & Development Corp., which has made a specialty of acquiring properties for redevelopment, wants to transform it for the ages, according to sources familiar with the company's plans. The property is valued for taxes at $10 million.

Through the years, the nostalgic ambiance of the building has attracted a number of design-oriented businesses, including architectural firms Jenkins-Peer Architects, LS3P Associates and Wagner Murray Architects.

Brandt McCullough, Crown vice president for commercial investments, declines comment. So does Rob Cochran, head of the local Colliers Pinkard office, which handles management and leasing at the building.

But market insiders say a firm decision could be made by month end.

[Justadude]

112 S. Tryon is a terrible choice for condo conversion. That's a commercial building all the way. Plus, it's so old that you'd have to do some serious redesigning to get it up to residential codes. Nice idea to put condos (almost) on the Square, but I really don't see that particular one being the right choice.

[Justadude]

Keep in mind that the BofA Corp Center, Hearst Tower, Spirit Square, and Afro Am Cultural Center are all in First Ward and many people would label them as "architecturally extravagant"

When I said "First Ward", I meant the residential area toward 277. Obviously the stuff in the CBD is going to be ritzier, but that's not a mixed-income area. if they want to build a crazy condo tower next door to Hearst, more power to 'em... but that would probably be a bad idea in the rowhouses on East 8th or 9th St.

[uptownliving]

What you call the CBD most certainly is a mixed income area. Hall House, Tryon House, Rennasaince Place and Edwin Tower are all examples of subsidized or low income houseing. Three of those are right on Tryon St.

The architecture of the newer residential buildings in my opinion is not extravagent...we don't have gold plated roofs (you will find a lot of copper roofs though)...but the architecture is definately interesting and unique.

However what is extravagent depends on one's viewpoint. I am sure that someone from a trailer park would look at First Ward as extravagent...and yet someone from Myers Park would disagree.

With regards to a number of the older buildings in the residential section of First Ward by modern day standards they are considered extravagent ( even by the people of Myers Park )

[Justadude]

The architecture of the newer residential buildings in my opinion is not extravagent...we don't have gold plated roofs (you will find a lot of copper roofs though)...but the architecture is definately interesting and unique.

If you say so... I wouldn't call First Ward rowhouses either "interesting" or "unique"... great places to live, but pretty generic as urban architecture goes.

[uptownliving]

So you think Furman's stuff is generic?

[Justadude]

I thought I was quite clear, but I'll say it again: as urban architecture goes, First Ward townhomes are pretty generic. Maybe one or two small sections of the Ward stand out in a small way, but there's nothing "unique" about it.

[uptownliving]

Just curious, could you post some pics of what you feel is unique residential townhome architecture in Charlotte?

[Style™]

it is generic in the sense that all of first ward is a furman creation. had it been a mix of styles such as a charleston styled, a southern styled, or another style mixed in, then you would probably like it.

however, look to other townhome locations in southeast charlotte (providence road near the Arbo, elm lane across from stonecrest, and others). all of those places have the same style that is present throughout the development. this is even common in Birkdale Village.

i will agree that it was overdone.

[Justadude]

Just curious, could you post some pics of what you feel is unique residential townhome architecture in Charlotte?

Frankly, I don't think there is any. All the townhome developments I know of in Charlotte are basically the same as what you'd see someplace else. After all, townhomes by their very nature are pretty much "cookie cutter" architecture -- at least as compared to freestanding homes and condo towers and the like. There are very few places anywhere with truly "unique" townhome architecture... maybe some of the Art Deco stuff in Miami or the modernism in Rotterdam. But for the most part, a townhome in Charlotte looks like a townhome in 100 other cities... including my own in 4th Ward which is generic 1980s architecture.

And to be clear, I never said I don't "like" First Ward. There's nothing at all wrong with the architecture there. My only point was that if they had gone out on a limb and used some kind of crazy, unique design it would certainly have pushed property values beyond what's reasonable for a mixed-income area. On a pragmatic level, it's best that that particular neighborhood not try to push the envelope architecturally.

[uptownliving]

Sound like you wouldn't satisfied with "unique" unless we had buildings that looked like UFOs :)

[Style™]

that'd be kinda cool.
maybe like war of the worlds.
wait, that was south charlotte last night.

DAMN. having the entire area around me lose their power was so random. it has been forever since i've had all my friends walk down 51 to my hood to hang out in the middle of the night. haha. who would've thought that everyone would do that. crazy world.

[QueenCityDrag]

every city should have at least one ufo somewhere

[Justadude]

Sound like you wouldn't satisfied with "unique" unless we had buildings that looked like UFOs :)

At this point in history, architecture has to be pretty wild to get the label of "unique". When buildings like Louisville's Museum Plaza get called "derivative", you know the bar is set pretty high for creativity.

But really, townhomes and rowhouses have never been the realm of artistic creativity. By their nature, they're designed for uniformity and mass production.

[uptownliving]

210 Trade has started construction on their Sales Office and Model Condo. The sales office will be on the 1st floor of the Charlotte Plaza building. The model condo will be on the 27th floor (sharing the floor with Bently's). They are spending $200K just on the upfit for the model condo which will be 1836 sq ft so it should be pretty nice looking with a view very similar to what you will have out of 210.

[uptownliving]

At this point in history, architecture has to be pretty wild to get the label of "unique". When buildings like Louisville's Museum Plaza get called "derivative", you know the bar is set pretty high for creativity.

But really, townhomes and rowhouses have never been the realm of artistic creativity. By their nature, they're designed for uniformity and mass production.

You are talking about unique on a global scale and I am talking about unique on a Charlotte scale.

I would say at least half the townhomes in First Ward have unique architecture when compared to the rest of Charlotte. They stand out enough that people ask you to explain them when they visit. Some examples would be Skyline Terrace, Tenth St Townes, Cityview, and Alexander Court.

[Justadude]

^ Yeah, they're definitely unique on a Charlotte scale. 1st Ward is the only part of the city that has the density of a large-city residential district.

[uptownliving]

Central 27 was issued its building permit yesterday. Expect construction to commence immediately on this 4 story condo building on Central Ave. This will be on the future Streetcar route connecting it with downtown and Eastland Mall.

http://www.tuscandevelopment.com/ucanroll/images/navigationsite_12.jpg
http://www.tuscandevelopment.com/ucanroll/images/navigationsite_13.jpg

http://www.central27.com/

[Justadude]

I have a hard time imagining what Central would look like if it became another South Blvd or Davidson St. It's been "ghetto" for so long that any success at turning it around should be counted as a major feather in the city's cap.

[QueenCityDrag]

central 27 seems to have the right idea, with that dirty looking facade. that'll fit in nicely. feather in the cap? c'mon, we need SOME culture. and by culture i of course mean grubby kids playing hardcore. kidding, but seriously, we need a district where places like tremont and the milestone can be walked to, not isolated ghetto pockets of culture. i'm sure that's news to everyone...

[uptownliving]

I have always liked Central Ave too. Thomas St Tavern, Johns Country Kitchen, The Penguin and Dish are all on my favorites list.

[QueenCityDrag]

i like how they even have a utility pole in the rendering

[graydog]

^Yes! It's the best. Imagine if that new Dilworth Run development had the high tension wires in their rendering. Too funny.

[Style™]

Investors flush with cash have been swooping through uptown Charlotte, targeting several signature buildings for purchase.

Four uptown buildings in a single block have attracted suitors in recent weeks, including the Interstate Tower at 121 W. Trade St. The neighboring 112 S. Tryon and 129 W. Trade buildings also are in play, real estate sources say.

The sale of the fourth, the First Citizens Bank Plaza, was announced Monday.

What's behind the pick-up in activity? Pension funds, insurers and other institutional investors are increasingly backing away from a lackluster stock market to seek better returns in commercial real estate investment, observers say.

The owners of the Interstate Tower, developed by Charlotte-based Faison Associates, are in the final phases of negotiations with Hartford, Conn.-based Cornerstone Real Estate Advisors, the real estate arm of Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co.

Faison officials acknowledge a sale is in the offing, but they decline to discuss details.

"We are working on exploring the potential sale of the building," says Phil Norwood, Faison chief executive.

And though he declines to discuss the building's sale, Norwood says he has witnessed few periods when buyers have been so aggressive about purchasing office properties.

"Buyers mean business," Norwood says.

The 32-story Interstate Tower was finished in 1990 and contains more than 382,000 square feet of heated space. The building and land are valued for tax purposes at roughly $37 million.

It's owned by the Ohio Public Employees Pension Fund. The building is being marketed by the Atlanta office of Eastdil Secured.

"There's a lot of cash out there that investors are looking to put to work," says Ken Riggs, managing principal and chief executive of Real Estate Research Corp. of Waverly, Iowa.

Charlotte's uptown vacancy rate is 6.6%, about half the national average for a major central business district, Riggs says. So he's not surprised investors are scouting uptown for properties with a potential for high returns.

"But it's not just in Charlotte," Riggs says. "It's a national trend in most second-tier cities. The top-tier markets have simply tapped out."

read more here (http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2006/03/20/story2.html)

[TarheelsCubs]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14198311.htm

Looks like Charlotte has 3 more condo towers coming!!!

Come on Raleigh?? When will it be our turn!

[Justadude]

I'm curious as to how they're planning on putting three condo towers in the footprint of one medium-sized (5 stories, 100k sq. ft. on each story) office building.

[atlrvr]

Well....it's a 5-acre site. Avenue is occupying less than 1 acre. Sounds like they'll have plenty of room, plus hopefully substantially more retail.

[Raleigh-NC]

Come on Raleigh?? When will it be our turn!
For now, we can wish the Queen City the best with these projects and hope to see this trend continue. Besides, Charlotte is getting these towers now that the population is above 600,000. At 350,000 population, Raleigh will have an uphill battle to convince developers to do something major here - we are getting lots of smaller [urban] projects, so we are not doing bad. Charlotte has a different vision and a good development process in place, which encourage residential towers. The good news for Uptown continues :okay: Good job Charlotte!!!

[Justadude]

Raleigh's turn will come along soon enough. With the growth rate there, I think it can realistically expect a residential boom in the core within the next decade or two.

[JorgiPorgi]

what is the latest news on the Vue?

[stateman99]

what is the latest news on the Vue?

This fall construction will probably start if all continues to go as is.

[stateman99]

what is the latest news on the Vue?

This fall construction will begin if all continues to go as is.

[stateman99]

btw- sorry for the double post. i don't know what happened.

[Joeplanner]

Actually Raleigh- Intown population probably has little bearing on whether Downtown Raleigh can support highrise condos. It is really the metro area these developments draw from. And since Raleigh's metro size is comparable to Charlotte's, it would stand to reason that it could support highrise condos as well. The real key is having some visionary developers with the gonads to jump of there. Also, Charlotte was fortunate enough to have some deep pockets companies like Bank of America priming the pump for this type of development. I think they started this push back in the late '70s.

With Raleigh's high growth and high incomes, I am sure it's just a matter of time before you see highrises too.

[oresaw]

I guess this could be better discussed somewhere other than the Charlotte development forum... but I'll post here anyway. For some reason, and this is based purely on gut and less on actual fact, I feel that Winston-Salem will actually see a new downtown high-rise residential building before Raleigh. I'm talking about something in say the 20-floor range. I think that one thing that has led Charlotte to become what it is is this need to prove something to others. Raleigh doesn't seem to have that same since of urgency. Charlotte has always been sort of the bastard child of NC in a way. This quote is from Raleigh's tourism site "After all, Raleigh embodies, 'City Life, Carolina Style.'". In a way, it seems at some times that Raleigh truly feels as if it has the other cities beat. We all know no one NC city can claim victory in all fields of what makes a city great but I feel as if people from Raleigh truly feel as if their city comes the closest to embodying all of the necessary ingredients. So for that reason I feel like Raleigh is less proactive than other NC metros. Even though WS is only the 5th largest city in the state I think Raleigh may one day be surprised at how quickly Winston's reputation rises on the national scene, and how its skyline (which many will argue already rivals Raleigh's) will reflect that. Because Like Charlotte, I feel like the people of WS really feel like they have something to prove, and will work harder than the folks in Raleigh to prove it. And of course, WS has a great foundation of urbanity and culture to grow from and a seemingly urban friendly disposition coming from its residents. Just a random feeling.

[oresaw]

On a side note... Will some of the older and locked threads on Charlotte be unstickied and be allowed to drop back down the list. I personally think it looks bad to have 5 Charlotte threads in the sticky section and this will likely lead to attacks being thrown our way from Alabama. They hate us.

[uptownliving]

oresaw...Winston already has a residential highrise in the 20 story range that just opened. Technically speaking Winston holds the current title to the tallest residential building in a downtown area in North Carolina.

http://www.nissenapartments.com/piclib/760.jpg

[prwfromnc]

Nissen is taller than Courtside? I thought it was the only way around. But anyways, once Trademark is finished, that title won't last long! And then Avenue, then 210 Trade, then Vue, then another Novare project(s), and then another Furman project(s), not to mention the condo tower with the Wachovia project, and then the Berkman Tower, and so forth.

[prwfromnc]

I just realized something, isn't that pink building taller than Nissen, because I thought it was already in the 22-25 story range? Oops, my bad, I just realized my error, I reread your post and you stated tallest residential high-rise inside downtown, Arlington's not in uptown. Sorry!

[CLTNC]

One reason Charlotte has condo development in uptown, is a work force beween 60,000 and 65,000. That opens the door for uptown living for people who want to live near their work.
You are not going to get a lot of condo development in downtowns with a low work force population.
Also you you need a proactive business community and local goverment to support all these developments.
The Charlotte Center City Partners is an award-winning organization dedicated to the promotion and enhancement of business, cultural, retail and residential initiatives in Charlotte's central business district. They have been a big help.

[Joeplanner]

Oresaw- We don't hate NC.

[oresaw]

oresaw...Winston already has a residential highrise in the 20 story range that just opened. Technically speaking Winston holds the current title to the tallest residential building in a downtown area in North Carolina.

http://www.nissenapartments.com/piclib/760.jpg

Yeah, I new about Nissen but I was referring to new buildings. Really, one big reason I think WS will be before Raleigh is because Furman is up there waving the magic BlvdCentro wand around.

[QueenCityDrag]

woops

[Style™]

A developer is planning 18 townhomes and flats on Walker Road between Millbrook Road and Isabel Court in the Cotswold neighborhood.

Cameron Capital says it will spend about $3.6 million on the project, called Avondale Square.

Units, which will have patios or balconies, will range from 1,023 square feet to 1,142 square feet and sell for $189,900 to $219,900.

Cameron Capital plans to start grading soon and complete construction in December.

source (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14254875.htm)

[Style™]

A Houston residential developer is joining the push to build higher and denser along the light-rail line in South End.

The Hanover Co. plans an 11-story apartment building on nearly 3 acres it has under contract at 101 Tremont Ave., next to the South Corridor light-rail line.

Ferguson Enterprises Inc. currently leases a 35,000-square-foot office-warehouse complex on the site. It also has a showroom next door in Atherton Mill.

Hanover development partner Bo Buchanan said the company's goal is to start construction in about a year on a 310-unit project.

The Hanover Co.'s portfolio includes more than 32,000 multifamily residential units nationwide. It developed the 140-unit Reserve at Sharon Road West and South Boulevard and other apartments in Charlotte. It's currently working with SouthPark mall owner Simon Property Group Inc. on a 150-unit project in The Village at SouthPark.

Hanover expects to close on the South End site by May for an undisclosed price. If everything goes according to plan, the apartments should be completed by summer 2009, Buchanan said.

Light-rail service, expected to start in fall 2007 on the 9.6-mile line from uptown to near Pineville, is generating intense residential development interest and land speculation

source (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14254858.htm)

[uptownliving]

The Hanover Co does some good projects and I expect this new one in SouthEnd to be one of them. So to recap the planned residential for SouthEnd:

-"C" twin 10 story residential towers.
-Hanover Co 11 story residential tower
-HHHunt 400 unit apartment building
-Citiline development (another 400+ units)
-Lowe's condos (65 units)
-Lowes

and then a bunch of lowrise development and refurb such as SouthEnd Showplace.

[TheCharlottean]

Actually Raleigh- Intown population probably has little bearing on whether Downtown Raleigh can support highrise condos. It is really the metro area these developments draw from. And since Raleigh's metro size is comparable to Charlotte's, it would stand to reason that it could support highrise condos as well.

According to the most recent census estimates from sites such as Emporis, Raleigh's metro population is close to 1.4 million. Charlotte's is over 2 million, so I wouldn't exactly call that comparable. Also keeping in mind that the Charlotte metro does not include Iredell and Lancaster county, since their land mass is larger farther away from Charlotte and their population largely does not commute into Charlotte to work. So, by the time their population is large enough to be annexed into the metro, I'd say Raleigh will be about 1.8 million, and Charlotte will then become roughly 2.6 to 2.7 million. Raleigh's not really growing any faster than Charlotte (Though both are shooting up seemingly overnight in certain areas), and Charlotte has a much larger and somewhat more diverse uptown worker (daytime) population (diverse meaning containing employees from many different companies rather than few... Raleigh's uptown workers are largely government employees).
Also, something not mentioned much around here is that Charlotte is considerably more dense than every other sizeable city in both of the Carolinas, with a very tall and dense skyline (Even with the number of parking lots still existing within the 277 loop) and other high-rises built out several miles from the city and some 16-stories even proposed for up to 15 miles away or more at the outskirts of the city in places like Ballantyne, as well as all of the high-density TOD projects springing up around the new UC Light rail south line. Raleigh is a sizeable city with many things going for it (Some that not even Charlotte has, such as nationally-recognized colleges and a thriving arts scene), but Raleigh hasn't gotten any high-rise residential towers yet because, in most cases, it simply isn't feasible to build high-rise residential in the Triangle yet, for the same reason that it isn't feasible to build much high-rise R in the Triad. Charlotte is pretty much a stand-alone city in its own metro, and most all of its best examples of shopping, restaurants, nightlife, colleges, employment, etc. can all be found within the city limits. Neither the Triangle nor the Triad have that luxury. Raleigh is the capital, but Durham has the nicest neighborhoods (IMO), but Chapel Hill has the best learning institutions, but Cary is the most desirable suburb, and so on. Most developers that would consider high-rise for a city won't even draw up plans for something, let alone publicly propose it if he or she feels that the residents that would occupy it would be underserved in one or more areas due to a long commute to an adjacent city. Office development is largely unaffected by this due to several factors such as business being mostly on the internet and the ability and necessity to travel to other cities as part of the job, but this is unacceptable in residential perameters, especially if the city is very low-density to begin with.
I have no doubts that Raleigh, Durham, the Triad and even Asheville will one day have a residential facet to their skyline, but not right now, and probably never enough to catch up to Charlotte; it quite simply has too much of a head start, in projects completed and under construction, density and centralization. I would LOVE to see a 50+ story residential high-rise like the Vue or the Epicentre in Raleigh, since due to the disparity between floor height of office and residential buildings it wouldn't stick out too much among Raleigh's 30-story buildings, but it just takes time. I say allow Raleigh to build out a little more before it discovers the benefits of building up, and I see no problem in high-rises taking off. I love the QC's little brother and I'll be cheering it on all the way. :)

[nostyle]

^I don't buy that it's a metro thing. It's an urban thing. Charlotte's center city is making leaps and bounds to become truly urban, and it's attracting urbanites in the process. Therefore there is a growing demand by young, urban professionals for this kind of housing in the Center City. Raleigh has not created such an environment in its downtown and is therefore not attracting nearly as many urbanites to its core. Raleigh could pack on another 500,000 in sprawling suburbanites but Charlotte would still be way ahead of it in terms of modern core urban development and the population it's attracting.

[uptownliving]

28th Ro (http://www.28throw.com/) will be on the southern edge of NoDa at the intersection of North Davidson St and 28th St was announced. It will contain 200 units and will be 1 block form the future NE LRT. This site is about 1 mile NE of Uptown Charlotte.
http://www.28throw.com/topheader.jpg
http://home.carolina.rr.com/willhaden/images/row28.jpg
Image courtesy of Via II Architecture http://www.viaii.com

More info in today's Observer article:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/business/14266013.htm

[Justadude]

That development list for Southend is really impressive, especially when you consider these have all come up before the rail line is complete. I certainly hope a boom in amenities will follow for that area, to service all these residents. It's hard to even imagine the difference between South Blvd in 1990 vs. 2010.

[cwilson758]

wow...Charlotte's downtown only has 65,000 workers? I would have guessed it double that with the size of the banks there. Hmmm.

[NCtarheel]

wow...Charlotte's downtown only has 65,000 workers? I would have guessed it double that with the size of the banks there. Hmmm.


I thought the banks had a significant amount of workers out in the burbs as well.

[nostyle]

65k sounds a bit low. I thought Uptown was closer to 85k right now, but I know we're definitely under 100k still. UptownLiving probably has the exact estimate from somewhere.

[uptownliving]

Last I heard was around 65K...the goal is to be at 100K in 15-20 years.

[cwilson758]

<this is not a pissing match>

here in Indy we have 125,000 workers downtown, with the bank headquarters you all have, I just would have thought that Charlotte had at least that many, if not more. Other than the banks, what other businesses call downtown Charlotte home?

[uptownliving]

This would be a great discussion to have in the main forum.

[TheCharlottean]

<this is not a pissing match>

here in Indy we have 125,000 workers downtown, with the bank headquarters you all have, I just would have thought that Charlotte had at least that many, if not more. Other than the banks, what other businesses call downtown Charlotte home?

Duke Energy is HQed in uptown, and most of BB&T's southern Piedmont operations are in the Charlotte BB&T building (Though their actual HQ is in Winston-Salem). I'm not sure about the other F500s in the QC (I think SPX, Goodrich, Family Dollar and Nucor have their HQs in suburbia... I know Lowe's does), but there are also alot of law offices and similar businesses in uptown that work with or depend on the large banking and financial presence within the 277 loop.
Then, most of the rest is residential, restaurants, a few clubs and bars and some unnecessarily large plazas. :hahaha:

[TarheelsCubs]

300 south Tryon is back!

This time it's 35 stories though!

15 floors of office and 20 for condo.

Got the info from "atlrvr" at up

[prwfromnc]

300 south Tryon is back!

This time it's 35 stories though!

15 floors of office and 20 for condo.

Got the info from "atlrvr" at up
Just got thru reading about it over there myself. It looks like it will finally happen for real this time! Atlrvr is usually right on the money, so I believe this will finally happen.

[CLTNC]

Wachovia has a lot of worker out in the University area, on land next to IBM. It is a big location, but I don't know how many worker are there.

[uptownliving]

300 south Tryon is back!

This time it's 35 stories though!

15 floors of office and 20 for condo.

Got the info from "atlrvr" at up

Yes, I had got wind of this when the whole baseball land shuffle began a few months ago...good to see that the plans are moving forward on it. When/if this gets built it will fill in a very large empty spot on S Tryon St.

[nostyle]

Last I heard was around 65K...the goal is to be at 100K in 15-20 years.
Well it depends on what you consider 'Uptown' too. Last I heard, South End and Uptown were now one and the same, increasing what is considered Uptown significantly. If you include only that (relatively small) area within the 277 loop then perhaps it is around 65k.

CWilson, the one thing I'd imagine Indy has over Charlotte (aside from any differences in area that is considered 'downtown') is that Indy likely has more government jobs in its center city, being the capital of the state.

[cwilson758]

good point! There are a number state office workers here...also, since Indy is the center of the state, we have federal offices reflective of a state of 6 million.

[mark40511]

Does anyone have a Charlotte pic of what Charlotte's skyline will look like when these new towers get built? I seem to remember seeing something like that but I can't find it.

[uptownliving]

The current issue of Uptown magazine has the best 3d rendering of what the skyline will look like in 5 years....but its missing a few projects.

[unccmyway]

the rendering must not be on the magazine's online site.

[uptownliving]

Its not...its only in the magazine which you can pick up for free on the streets of Uptown.

[uptownliving]

There has been speculation that a residential "tower" will be built in SouthPark. Well I came across the first evidence of a possible "tower" today. It would be 12 stories and would be right next to the Burger King at the intersection of Fairview and Sharon. It would replace the old Allen Tate Building that exists there today. This is all part of a rezoning that Pappas is applying for connected with the Live Oak redevelopment.

They might discuss this project at tonight's City Council meeting...but it will likely be delayed till next month as they are awaiting the results of the traffic study.

[atlrvr]

There is a tower planned there....possibly with some hotel rooms as well, but not the Novare tower that has been in the rumor mill for a while.

I am stoked that the old Allen Tate buildings are going away.

[Cary NC]

I would love to see what the skyline would look like. I am a native N. Carolinian but living out of state currently. Any other way to see what the skyline would like in five years since I can't get the magazine. Maybe a scan of it or something. My aunt lives in Charlotte and we are moving back to Raleigh or Charlotte next summer from Denver CO and it is great to see the development in the Tar Heel State.

[Style™]

isnt that allen tate building rather new? or maybe i'm thinking of another building.

also, that would get rid of that very large parking lot. now all they need to do is do a little pedscape planning for south park.

[CLTNC]

No, the new one is next door to Philips Place. It has condos on the top fllor.

[uptownliving]

The Allen Tate building I am speaking of is about 20 years old....as CLTNC stated the newer Allen Tate Building was built next door and there are no plans to tear it down at this time.

[Style™]

oh. i'm aware of where you are talking about now.. yeah, that will be a wonderful change of land uses.

[Justadude]

Just to chime in on the Uptown Magazine spread... this is easily the best rendering I've seen of what the center city will look like in the near future. It's worth the trip out of your way to have the centerfold as a reference.

Sorry, Cary NC. If I had an easy way of scanning it I'd put it on here for you.

[Raleigh-NC]

^^
If you have a digital camera you can take a photo and put it here... PLEASE!!!

[rickydavisfan21]

what are you talking about, its the worst rendering I've ever seen, by far, I've done better renderings and I'll post some of them, but have you seen the vue in that rendering, thats crappy as hell, its terrrrrible they could have done a lot better, and they left out several things

[Tom Ace]

rickydavis fan loses all credability because he is a fan of a guy who shoots at the wrong basket to pad his stats. lol just kidding but seriously, I had to laugh when I saw ur s/n.

[uptownliving]

rickydavis, I have seen your renderings and in all honesty the one in the uptown mag...while it leaves out some projects, overall i think it looks more professional...whereas your renderings look very patched together.

[uptownliving]

The Citadin Sales Center is now open on Graham St next to Gerrard Tire. I happened to walk by there today and they have a nice scale model of the whole development and it is on a large spinning table. It is right by the window so you can stand outside and watch the model spin.

http://www.citadinliving.com/

[Durhamite]

The QC is really on the move! I don't know about world class, but if they build 3/4's of all of the projects in que, it will definitely fill the "big city" void missing in the Carolinas. Add additional diversity to downtown (clubs, etc) and if the NC Music Factory pans out, 2010 will be the year to remove the NC from name recognition.

Excluding Florida and Texas cities, Charlotte and Nashville are on FIRE and should help elevate the mid-southern states to a new level.

Gotta love that music in the background at the citidan site, made me want a doobie and a cocktail........

[Justadude]

I think Citadin will go a long way toward improving the "feel" of N. Graham St. near 277. Right now it's still got one foot in light industry, and there's a lot more shady characters than I think most people would feel comfortable with.

[rickydavisfan21]

rickydavis, I have seen your renderings and in all honesty the one in the uptown mag...while it leaves out some projects, overall i think it looks more professional...whereas your renderings look very patched together.

you haven't seen the one I'm working on by hand for a project, in a drawing for design class. And also, I think the reason mine were stronger is because they are actually from an angle we'll ever see, not too many of us are gonna see that aerial view of downtown charlotte on a regular basis, when I see a nice rendering from the parking deck for presbyterian hospital like mine I'll give it some more credit, I'm just tired of seeing renderings from the sky, thats not what I want to see

finally someone made a comment about ricky hahaha

[uptownliving]

Who is Ricky Davis?

[Tom Ace]

Ricky Davis is a NBA basketball player who plays for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He is a hell of an athlete but has a reputation as a selfish player and showboater. He is infamous from a few years ago when he played with Cleveland where he tried to pad his rebound stats by shooting at the wrong basket to get an extra rebound with like 10 seconds left in the game (he was trying to get a triple double, which for people that don't know is having 3 stat categories in double digits. like lebron james last night had 32 points, 11 assists, 10 rebounds for a triple double).

[Tom Ace]

by the way ricky davis dont forget to put your renderings on here when your finished i really want to see them.

[stateman99]

word over on UP is that the Vue finally made it's pre-sale requirements and a construction date will be announced in the next couple of weeks.

[uptownliving]

thanks atlrvr for finding that info out.

[uptownliving]

Well there was a blurb in this mornings paper that confirms that yes the Vue has met their pre-sales targets and will now apply for a building permit. The official from the Vue said they expect to start construction by the end of this year.
http://www.vuecharlotte.com/Images/Renderings/Day2.jpg

[Route]

This building will add so much to the skyline. Wonderful news!

[uptownliving]

Me thinks I saw a soil tester/digger thing at the Twelve site on 7th St today. They are not wasteing any time on that one.

[stateman99]

Me thinks I saw a soil tester/digger thing at the Twelve site on 7th St today. They are not wasteing any time on that one.
Sweet. That would be great news. I would love for them to starting working on the site as quick as possible. I heard end of the year, but if they could start earlier, that would be good too. I love that the skyline will expand northward too.

[Style™]

it will take them a while to get the foundation done and then get on with building the actual building.

[stateman99]

It won't take as long as for the Epicentre I bet. :) I've been watching that webcam forever.

[nostyle]

Well there was a blurb in this mornings paper that confirms that yes the Vue has met their pre-sales targets and will now apply for a building permit. The official from the Vue said they expect to start construction by the end of this year.


^Yes, the article made it sound like this one is the highrise equivalent of a chick flick...aiming its advertising straight at the single female demographic.

[TarheelsCubs]

Check out the new rendering for the Park Condos!


http://www.theparkcondos.net/index.htm

[Style™]

that new rendering makes me almost want to buy into the project. ;)

The Vue to get super high-tech
The developer of The Vue in uptown Charlotte says the 50-story, 403-unit condo tower will be one of the most technologically advanced buildings in the Southeast.

Churchill Development Group LLC plans a direct pipeline giving every resident commercial grade high-speed Internet access up to 30 times faster than traditional residential installations.

The tower will be outfitted by Tampa-based Proximiti Communications, which also is doing Churchill's The Vue at Lake Eola in Florida.

Proximiti said both the Charlotte and Florida highrises will be completely digital, including WiFi access, TV and telephone systems.

Churchill marketing director Hope McCampbell said the developer is aiming for a third quarter ground breaking at Fifth and Pine streets in Fourth Ward. The building is to be completed in 2008

[NinerLoudNProud]

I liked the original renderings 100-fold more.
This new rendering makes it look like it's already 40 years old... very upper east side of nyc.

[Justadude]

I can see what you mean by that. It's not really Charlotte's style, is it? But then again, neither is Courtside.

And boy, does it ever dwarf the building (I can't remember if it's the courthouse or the old post office) next door! They're so out of scale with each other, you have to intentionally look to even notice it's there. I wonder how that will work at ground level?

[QueenCityDrag]

isn't the building next to it getting leveled anyway? the first rendering of the park was way more unique and luxurious looking, this is kinda boring.

so i'm in chatt now and am gonna be poor so i can't do the internet so much but i'll always check in for charlotte development of course. maybe i'll go talk smack in the nashville forum now and go all pedantic on them :)

[Justadude]

isn't the building next to it getting leveled anyway?

I would certainly hope not, as it's one of the few neo-Classical buildings uptown. Maybe we're not talking about the same building...

[krazeeboi]

^That would be a travesty.

As long as this rendering doesn't turn out to be different in reality ala Courtside, I'm happy with it.

[uptownliving]

Well the article appeared in today's Observer one day late :) about the condos going up between the Hampton Inn
and Hilton Garden Inn downtown. They will be called The Tower.

They will have 26 units priced from $750k-$1.5M.

Rendering from GMVirtual in today's paper (sorry the quality is so bad)
http://www.clturban.com/images/thetower.jpg

And this is what the site looked like on Saturday:
http://www.clturban.com/images/downtownsatmay/smithcurry.jpg

And here is the article from today's Charlotte Observer:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/14606471.htm

I don't think this thing is going to win any architectural awards...will be interesting to see how sales go.

[krazeeboi]

First of all, "The Tower"? You couldn't get any more creative than that?

One of the incentives for living in a condo tower is that you get good views of the city. In "The Tower," the only view you'll get is into the room of the guest who's in room 1214 for the weekend. Just the fact that the tower is being squeezed in between two hotels will make it seem like you're living in a hotel yourself.

Not sure if I have much faith in this one...

[uptownliving]

The way the units are designed each of them will have their balconies face either 2nd St or Stonewall St...none of them will face the hotels next door. I think a lot of people are either not realizing that...or just not getting it. There are only going to be 4 units per floor...so thats 1 balcony on either side of the elevator shafts going up. They will actually have quite nice views from their place.

[krazeeboi]

But will those be great skyline views? I don't think views of I-277 or the Arlington make people want to jump on this opportunity.

[Style™]

you will be able to see south park and ballantyne from that view. ;)

also, south end will have enough of a skyline in years to come to warant it. same with midtown.

[uptownliving]

But will those be great skyline views? I don't think views of I-277 or the Arlington make people want to jump on this opportunity.

As style stated earlier you will see SouthPark, Ballantyne and on a clear day probably the sky thingy at Carowinds...not to mention Kings and Crowders Mountain. Obviously the units that face Stonewall won't command the prices of the ones with the skyline view that face 2nd St.

Just like the units in the Vue that face the skyline command a higher price than the ones that face JC Smith, Lake Norman, and will be about eye level with the planes flying in to land at the airport on days when the wind is out of the South.

[Dale]

The Tower.

I hear that Boris Karloff and Vincent Price are among the first to sign on as tenants. :lol:

[Justadude]

These are high-priced luxury units, so skyline views probably aren't their biggest selling points anyway. The array of ameneties that come with ownership are going to be much more appealing in the long run.

[Style™]

Developers of Berkman tower readying launch

Since the Carolina Theatre Preservation Society was formed in 1997, its members have worked to save the 1927 structure and bring it back to life as an entertainment center.

The organization's ambitions received a critical endorsement last month when Charlotte City Council and the Mecklenburg Board of County Commissioners inked a funding agreement based on a condo tower being built over the theater. With that deal, a renovated theater is slated to debut in two to three years.

That timeline assumes a healthy condo market uptown. Financing for the restoration is tied to the property taxes generated by the condo building.

"When enough condos are sold, it will trigger the building, and we can start on the restoration," says Noah Lazes, co-owner of the Ark Group, an operator and developer of entertainment venues that will co-own and run the theater. "But it's market driven -- if the condo market falters, it won't happen."

To restore the Carolina, the preservation group looked for a developer willing to incorporate it with a condominium tower. It found Atlanta-based Camden Management Partners, which was interested in the project and willing to put in the effort to negotiate a multi-faceted agreement with preservation society, the city and county, and Ark.

Landers says the tower design is in its infancy, but it could reach 25 stories with 125 condos. He says it's too soon to announce a groundbreaking date. Camden hasn't decided when pre-selling will start or how many units would need to be sold before construction begins. (http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2006/05/22/focus3.html)..

[uptownliving]

I don't think that the Berkman will have any trouble selling...it will have one of the best condo locations in all of downtown Charlotte.

[ATLanta94]

Uptown is hot. Anyone who spends time in Charlotte knows it. However, I must say that developers/projects in the Charlotte market are much more sell-then build oriented than many of the other major US markets. This is a key factor in the prosperity and enjoyment of the condo sector. This philosophy makes for a quality product and , to me, gives the residents a greater sense of pride and excitement actually watching "their" home being constructed. Just a thought for the marketing and sales side of things. I think it makes for a driven demand that in time will far exceed the supply, and therefore build a powerhouse residental/high rise market. Looking up a day at a time Charlotte.

[UrbanMyth]

It's remarkable how much all this high-rise construction is going to "fatten" Charlotte's skyline with towers going up east, west, north, and south of the Tryon spine...imagine too the look of the South LYNX corridor lined with clusters of mid-rises at the new stations, the U/C Midtown project (moving along a rapid clip now...), etc...

Truly amazing for a city Charlotte's size.

[TheCharlottean]

Truly amazing for a city Charlotte's size.

I've heard that over and over and I just don't get where it comes from. Charlotte is not small in population at all, it's actually larger in both city and metro than Nashville. This makes it sound like Charlotte is the size of Richmond or something.

[oresaw]

I've heard that over and over and I just don't get where it comes from. Charlotte is not small in population at all, it's actually larger in both city and metro than Nashville. This makes it sound like Charlotte is the size of Richmond or something.

You should take it as a complement. Charlotte's not small, but let's be honest, it's not huge either. I think UrbanMyth was accurate in his/her statement that our high-rise development is impressive for a city of our size. Not many cities with Charlotte's population are seeing the type of high-rise development we are. If you want to compare Charlotte to Nashville as far as size is concerned then you should also look at the fact that we're putting up quite a bit more high-rises than Nahville is. Which is why this development is impressive for a cities of Charlotte's size. If Nashville were putting up something like 20 scrapers then UrbanMyth would have probably said the same thing to them.

[Style™]

Developers targeting buyers who want the convenience of uptown

Skybridge Terrace

• Project size: 144 condos in three buildings off the 1200 block of West Morehead Street.

• Prices: Units range from 560 to 1,060 square feet and sell from about $125,000 to about $250,000.

• Features: Elevator in each building, secure parking and controlled access, private balconies on most units, 10-foot smooth ceilings, double-bowl stainless-steel sinks, tile backsplashes in kitchens, tankless water heaters, tile flooring in bathrooms, stained concrete and hardwood flooring.

• Information: Kevin Thompson and Brandon Roby of Helen Adams Realty are handling sales and marketing, www .helenadamsrealty.com. Doug

http://www.charlotte.com/images/charlotte/charlotte/14693/215894048231.jpg


source (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/14691865.htm)

[uptownliving]

This project will be adjacent to I-77...so if you are going to buy a unit there be prepared for highway noise. It is good to see development finally happening along W Morehead St. I can remember going to a community meeting there 5 years ago and people were all excited about the good things to come...good to see it finally arrive. As a side note if you drive that section of W Morehead the City has started work on upgrading the sidewalks and crosswalks...they also plan to put in some type of marque at the Freedom Morehead intersection.

[UrbanMyth]

You should take it as a complement. Charlotte's not small, but let's be honest, it's not huge either. I think UrbanMyth was accurate in his/her statement that our high-rise development is impressive for a city of our size. Not many cities with Charlotte's population are seeing the type of high-rise development we are. If you want to compare Charlotte to Nashville as far as size is concerned then you should also look at the fact that we're putting up quite a bit more high-rises than Nahville is. Which is why this development is impressive for a cities of Charlotte's size. If Nashville were putting up something like 20 scrapers then UrbanMyth would have probably said the same thing to them.

Thank you. I didn't mean to put down Charlotte!!! In spite of what (many) people want to think, Charlotte is rapidly becoming a major US city. In the Southeast, I would argue that only Atlanta and Miami are more significant. Interestingly, it seems that Charlotte's creating its own tier (say "1B") behind the Southeast's aforementioned leaders and appears to be in league of her own

[uptownliving]

In the next 20 years Charlotte will be in the Top 12 Largest cities in the USA.

[UrbanMyth]

In the next 20 years Charlotte will be in the Top 12 Largest cities in the USA.


...in terms of the city's population, but, Charlotte will have to continue to do what's doing to grow its other resources: economic, education, transit, culture, recreation, etc. to truly continue to "grow". You know what I mean?

[uptownliving]

yep...you don't become great by being complacent.

[UrbanMyth]

yep...you don't become great by being complacent.

...and it takes more than numbers to make and sustain an emerging great city.

[CLTNC]

On WAFE the other day on "Charlotte Talks".
What is happing in Charlotte is, people are moving into the city limits of Charlotte faster than in the surrounding areas. In 20 years, they say Charlotte will add another 350,000 people in to the city of Charlotte. Most of the growth will have to go to higher density areas such as our transit line. Charlotte population will be close to 1 million people.
They say Charlotte will be the 10th largest city in the US.

This will help when the Fed is looking at just cities for giving out Fed. Funds.

[uptownliving]

That really blew my mind when I heard that for the first time a few weeks ago...that CLT will be the 10th Largest city in the USA by about 2025. I knew that Charlotte was growing, but I didn't realize it was THAT much.

[krazeeboi]

That's going to be ridiculous. Although I don't plan to be in the area then, I can only imagine how York County will look. I'd expect it to be at least 400-500K, with at least 100K in Rock Hill alone.

[Justadude]

I cannot imagine Charlotte being that large. We would pass, among others, San Fransisco and Detroit. That's just amazing to consider as a possibility, even if it doesn't come to pass.

[NCtarheel]

That's crazy. wow. that would mean the city almost tripled in size in 35 years. It sounds like a lot, but if you think about it that's 19 years from now. Let's say the city continues growing at about 30% per decade that would put it at about one million people 20 years from now. That's amazing though to think about.

[Justadude]

Buy center city property now! :)

[uptownliving]

Blvd Centro has released this new rendering of The Ledge. It will be in First Ward at the corner of McDowell and 7th St.

http://www.clturban.com/images/ledge.jpg

More info: http://www.blvdcentro.com/ledge/ledge.htm

[Justadude]

Eh. It'll fill space and add density, but doesn't do much for the eyes.

[newyorkrunaway1]

personally i like it! the colors are amazing!

[Style™]

The newest addition to uptown's condo market will share an address with the uptown arena.

The 25-story, $50 million tower, which will include a 150-room hotel, ground-level retail space and a parking deck, will be built on narrow strip of land the city owns adjacent to the Bobcats home.

Local development company Boulevard Centro has pulled together a team that plans to develop the third-of-an-acre tract at North Caldwell and East Trade streets after reaching an agreement to buy the high-profile site.

Boulevard Centro is the prevailing bidder on the land, which the city originally acquired for the arena project.

The land wound up being unneeded, and the city decided to sell it to a private developer.

This week, the City Council's Economic Development and Planning Committee agreed to recommend approval of Boulevard Centro's $2.4 million bid for the site. City Council members are expected to vote on the recommendation June 26. If the council approves the sale, Boulevard Centro will be afforded a 120-day due-diligence period and another 30 days for closing, says Curt Walton, assistant city manager.

The only other qualifying bid was submitted by Charlotte-based McClain Real Estate Co. McClain's bid was higher, exceeding $2.7 million, but its development proposal was not as appealing, city officials say.

"McClain's projects have done well in other parts of the country," says Councilman John Lassiter, chairman of the council's economic development committee. But the company's 80-unit condo proposal appeared to be based on a resort model and would have allowed owners to hold "fractional interests" in the individual units.

The track record and design expertise of Boulevard Centro made its proposal the better choice, Lassiter says.

"And we did not want to put at risk the opportunity to develop this property," he adds.

The proposal promises to continue uptown's dramatic condo boom.

More than 10,000 residents live uptown. With the advent of several condo towers, that figure is expected to top 15,000 by year end, according to estimates by Charlotte Center City Partners.

Key projects include The Vue, a 51-story tower to be developed at Fifth and Pine Streets; a Fourth Ward project called The Citadin, which will add 424 homes and 20,000 square feet of retail space; and Boulevard Centro's Fourth & Broad mixed-use project, which will feature 250 residential units, as well as offices and other commercial space.

Boulevard Centro, headed by architect-turned-developer David Furman, is also the company behind such urban residential projects as the Courtside and TradeMark developments uptown.

For its proposal for the city-owned tract, the company is teaming with Wichita, Kan.-based hotel developer LodgeWorks and Atlanta-based general contracting firm Batson-Cook Construction Co.


The project calls for street-level shops topped by seven floors of parking. The next nine floors would be a luxury, extended-stay suites hotel with up to 150 rooms, featuring a café, business center, meeting spaces, exercise room, laundry and convenience store.

The remaining floors would be developed as residential condos. In documents submitted to the city, Boulevard Centro does not specify how many units it envisions. But Lassiter says the project would probably have as many condo units as it does hotel rooms.

"It's roughly a half-and-half plan," he says.

John Culbertson of Cardinal Real Estate Partners is brokering the land sale on the city's behalf with the local office of Trammell Crow Co.

Culbertson, who says he helped the city devise its development criteria, stresses the project site is going to be challenging for any developer. It measures only about 18,000 square feet and will require a multitude of special design and structural features to support various uses, he says.

"This will be a very difficult site to develop," Culbertson says. "The development pad is right next to a sidewalk and the footers of the arena. It's a very tight site."

The proposal by Boulevard Centro fits the city's vision for the property, he says. And the development team also has the right amount of experience for a project that will be adjacent to one of Charlotte's highest-profile buildings.

"No other building the city owns has more eyes on it right now," Culbertson says of the arena, which opened last fall. "If you're going to let someone develop something next door to one of the city's signature buildings, it has got to be top quality."

[Justadude]

Man, the hotel industry uptown is really starting to balloon. Hopefully this'll drive rates down a bit, and attract a little more tourist-friendly entrepreneurship on the streets (performers, souveniers, etc.)

[uptownliving]

Bad News for the Berkman Tower/Carolina Theatre. There was a blurb on News14 Carolina I caught that said there have been problems with the contract and either the City Council is going to have to extend a deadline for the developer or put the property up for sale again. Stay tuned for more updates.

[Justadude]

Ugh... just extend the deadline and get it done. The last thing we need is another round of drama that threatens a landmark.

[rickydavisfan21]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2368 [/IMG]

This is the rendering I posted on UP today, I don't know if anyone noticed but I did get banned from UP today for asking about how norm (the guy who posted the wachovia rendering) was doing, and the explanation for the banning was that I always tried to make UP a frat house

[Style™]

that's because metro.m is a dipshit!

frat house party at ssc dude!

[krazeeboi]

I do notice he has been on his period lately. He's been closing threads left and right for stupid ass reasons.

[rickydavisfan21]

Well I wrote Neo a nice letter saying that I'd always have his back in life, and said basically metro can burn in hell, but you know what can you do, I can still view the site, and post stuff here, I'm working on colorizing that rendering I posted and ya'll are welcome to post it on UP if you want, but SSC is so much better, less corruption, and no pyscho queens with a vengance. How do you go about posting an attachment or what not, does it take a number of posts or something?

[CLTNC]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2368 [/IMG]

This is the rendering I posted on UP today, I don't know if anyone noticed but I did get banned from UP today for asking about how norm (the guy who posted the wachovia rendering) was doing, and the explanation for the banning was that I always tried to make UP a frat house

I go to UP but I do not understand all this mess metro.m is up to. I think he is Queen of the hen house.

[skysdalimit]

Well I wrote Neo a nice letter saying that I'd always have his back in life, and said basically metro can burn in hell, but you know what can you do, I can still view the site, and post stuff here, I'm working on colorizing that rendering I posted and ya'll are welcome to post it on UP if you want, but SSC is so much better, less corruption, and no pyscho queens with a vengance. How do you go about posting an attachment or what not, does it take a number of posts or something?

Yeah, UP is basically a cock sucking fest of metroboi. If you disagree with him, he bans you. I thought a forum was a place to post your ideals about certain topics. People are going to disagree with eachother from time to time, but you shouldn't be banned because of it.

[UrbanMyth]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2368 [/IMG]

This is the rendering I posted on UP today, I don't know if anyone noticed but I did get banned from UP today for asking about how norm (the guy who posted the wachovia rendering) was doing, and the explanation for the banning was that I always tried to make UP a frat house

WHAT???!?!??!?!!!!??????? YOU were BANNED? That rendering is GREAT! Are you an design student?

[UrbanMyth]

Yeah, UP is basically a cock sucking fest of metroboi. If you disagree with him, he bans you. I thought a forum was a place to post your ideals about certain topics. People are going to disagree with eachother from time to time, but you shouldn't be banned because of it.

Metro is the Queen of that site. It's impossible to know when or why she'll ban you.

I notice that people are migrating back here b/c they had enough of her shit. Unfortunately, Neo and Dubone are really good guys with a good site but I think Metro's got them by the balls financially.

[krazeeboi]

^And maybe in other ways too.

Yeah I said it.

[rickydavisfan21]

Yea I am a design student, and yes I was banned, I like how people appreciated my rendering I'm working on more, and finally i can do it without fear for my membership, shame I was about to actually pay for one. I am colorizing it on Photoshop and illustrator, so it should look pretty phat. Metro is just misguided and was obviously very unpopular as a kid growing up, and was hated on for being who he is so now he owns the largest forum of its kind and well he gets a serious power trip. Dubone is an awesome guy, he is the coolest guy on that forum, he's intelligent, he's fair and he works with ya, he is an A okay kinda guy, he tried to help me not get banned, but he was unfortunately unsuccessful, Neo is a great guy, and awesome guy, but yea, he is owned by metro, just owned, everything he says gets edited by metro, everything he does is watched over, and Neo needs a lil more confidence and realize hey I started this site first, and you know what, you can kick my ass marc, this my place (marc is metropunks name). I just looked at UP for the first time and I seem to be creating quite a stir by being banned, hopefully that will get some more faithfuls onto SSC. So how does one go about posting a rendering anyhow?

[rickydavisfan21]

Okay so here is the story behind the frat boy comment, on february 16th, 2005, I posted drunk on UP, I remember the date not because it was an important moment in my life, but because well it was my bday, and well I was drunk, and I had the dumb idea of telling everyone on UP about it, I had only been a member for a lil while, and didn't know the severity of the rules, I was basically new to the whole posting thing. So yea I posted drunk, and yea got railed for it. Was suspended for 20 days, most people would have been banned, but I was suspended because I had said some things that were important and worthwhile, but now I would be known in the future as a teenybopper, and a frat boy, even tho I go to savannah college of art and design (A school that has no fraternities). Well I screwed up one more time after that, drunk again, (drinking is bad kiddies don't do it, haha), and yea that futured my reputation, that was in marchish of 2005, then I stayed good (in the opinion of several posters whom I speak to) for a year, but metro was always looking for me to do something wrong, so I next got suspended for 1 liners (in the case in point, laughing at a joke), then the next time for making a thread on a comment that Todd Sauerbrun made about charlotte, then the next time I was banned from posting for 2 weeks, for god I don't even know. One of the other things that metro hated about me is he made a mistake he put his SN on his profile so everytime I'd try to fight my case and everytime, he wouldn't listen and he'd be his metrobitch self, but whatever. I was definately suspended a couple other times, for BS reasons, but this was the biggest BS reason of them all. Getting banned for asking how a guy who's job could be in jeoperdy.

[norm21499]

Im sorry :-(

[urbancharlotte]

That's bs. I came here from UP. Banning someone who contributes more than the admin. is bs. Great rendering Rd21. Cheers to SSC :drunk:

[skysdalimit]

Metroboi bans people for stuff he does - he should just ban himself. RDF21, there is no reason why you should be banned. I was banned for debating about whether Charlotte or Raleigh was a better city. So yay, welcome to the club.

[CLTNC]

Rd21 looks like the members on UP think you got a raw deal.
I guess you live and learn you do mess with Metro's baby.
Hope you do well in school and come to Charlotte and find a good job.
You can put your drawings on the big signs off I77 and I85 for all to see.

Maybe we should start a new thread Rd21 Gets the Boot on UP

[Style™]

well i started the forum (i was member number 2), and now i'm banned. so that should give you some idea of how things are run there. its a bunch of bullshit. duh.

[urbancharlotte]

Yea I saw that before, the 2nd member got banned. Any reason why?

[lancetop]

Does that mean essentially that if ya post on UP, you could say something that someone doesn't like, or they're in a bad mood, and ya get banned???

[Style™]

Yea I saw that before, the 2nd member got banned. Any reason why?

i started to post here. so therefore, if i post here, i must not be 'loyal' to what was then SSA. so i was banned. whatever. that site is shit.

[Mobuchu]

^^^talking like that is probably what got you banned

[rockj410]

lol.

[g-man430]

I got banned from there for 2 weeks for posting about an immigration rally. That's some bullshit. Urbanplanet sucks.

[uptownliving]

Bad News for the Berkman Tower/Carolina Theatre. There was a blurb on News14 Carolina I caught that said there have been problems with the contract and either the City Council is going to have to extend a deadline for the developer or put the property up for sale again. Stay tuned for more updates.

I got an update on this situation:

In January 2006 the City Council approved a Purchase and Sale Agreement
with Camden Management Partners for the sale of the Carolina Theatre, the
development of a condominium tower above the theater, and a limited
renovation of the Carolina Theatre.
This Agreement provided for the Carolina Theatre Preservation Society
(CTPS) to enter into a License Agreement with ARK Management (theater
manager) that would allow CTPS to earn revenue from the theater, make
historic improvements to the theater and produce some theater programming.
ARK and CTPS have been unable to agree on terms of this License
Agreement. Camden will not proceed with the project with this matter
unresolved.

So now the City Staff is recommending that Preservation North Carolina be substituted for CTPS. Hopefully this is what the city council will decide tonight so that this project can move forward.

[uptownliving]

Well an update to the update....that item was removed from the City Council agenda tonight so maybe ARK and CTPS came to an agreement...stay tuned.

[uptownliving]

Blvd Centro won the bidding war on the 1/3 acre Bobcats Arena land parcel tonight. City Council approved their deal to pay $2.4M for the city owned land at the corner of Trade and Caldwell. They now have 120 days to finalize and close on the sale.

Their current plans are to build a 25 story tower that will house a hotel, condos, and parking. Here is a rough massing diagram I did that shows what a 25 story tower might look on the site.

http://www.clturban.com/images/blvdcentrotower.jpg

[Carolina Blue]

Blvd Centro won the bidding war on the 1/3 acre Bobcats Arena land parcel tonight. City Council approved their deal to pay $2.4M for the city owned land at the corner of Trade and Caldwell. They now have 120 days to finalize and close on the sale.

Their current plans are to build a 25 story tower that will house a hotel, condos, and parking. Here is a rough massing diagram I did that shows what a 25 story tower might look on the site.

http://www.clturban.com/images/blvdcentrotower.jpg
What the hell??? That's the parcell they've been talking about. That will be something if they cram a highrise into that space. I thought they were talking about one of the spaces behind the arena (on the side of the practice facility). Have there been any announcements regarding those two spaces. I would think they're much more marketable.

[uptownliving]

Yep that is the infamous Parcel #3. The next parcel they are going to put on the market is the one next to the LRT tracks. That will go on the market sometime in mid 2007. Currently it is being used to store construction matierals for the Lynx Blue Line. The other parcel next to Breakfast Club currently has no plans.

[krazeeboi]

I didn't know that was the site either. That seems to be an odd spot to put a tower.

[Justadude]

It better be one hell of a pedestrian-friendly tower or it's going to really disrupt the fabric of that block.

[uptownliving]

^^^ The current plan is to include retail on the ground floor and of course you will have the hotel lobby.

[rickydavisfan21]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=27257&view=findpost&p=472180

So Metro posted a nice thing on UP in the past couple days that I just came accross, and in that he said that 98% of the users at UP don't have to worry about being banned. I'd like to show differently, so heres an easy to find statistic, today shcwilj joined UP and he became user number 11679 but yet there are only 8813 registered members. Simple Subtraction shows that there are 2866 members who have either been blocked or have deactivated their account either way, not good for UP. Metro says 2% that is obvious bullshit.
Take that metro, and another thing about metro and his ideas. You can see his love of power by simply looking at the description box on the left side of his posts. Where does it say he's from? The panopticon. For those of you whom don't know what a panopticon is, its well let me just direct you to the wikipedia definition because it saves me from getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. The Panopticon is a type of prison building designed by the philosopher Jeremy Bentham. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience."
Panopticon was designed to also utilize visual effects such as venitian blinds so the prisoners cannot see when they are being observed. He is the omnipresent omniscient godlike feature of urban planet, at least so he thinks. What an arrogant ass hole. He is watching all of ya'll at all times, even on this site, be careful what you say. He will have you on his watch list as soon as he can. He made some direct comments to me that I did not enjoy very much. So if you talk about metro as he talks about banned forumers like myself
1. They won't admit they are wrong. Metro does not admit he's wrong, he simply doesn't know how, his word is doctrine
2. He says they will state that UP is unfair, well of course he doesn't think he's unfair but seriously metro, if thats a trend among banned posters, ever thought hey maybe it is unfair, whats 2866+ peoples word against 1 mans(maybe two, Neo in his blind glory)
3. Overstate their importance, Do i need to elaborate on this I already eluded to the panopticon...
4. You are still paranoid enough metro to go beyond your borders and read a site that you don't admin, get a life.'

UP is the most Orwellian place I've ever observed. Metro edits everything sent to you from UP, any email send you'll notice a cc from metro, its terrible, it is never actually from neo, does he even exist, is he just a figament of metro and each of our imagination, trying to show that there is another decisionmaker on UP other than Metro.

So since he is probably reading this as I post it, everyone wave at metro, *waves*, I'm sure you were a good person in some lifetime, I know there is some greatness deep down inside.

Oh yes, I forgot to add something about metro's post, "This includes PMs, emails, suspensions and other methods to try and work with the person. By the time we ban someone, they should either know that it is coming or are so clueless or self absorbed they don't need to be here anyway. In the particular example you mention, all of this was done. "

They don't try to work with you, they attack you, your intelligence, your wellbeing and your life in general, to say metro has ever worked with a poster is to say hitler liked jews. And this may seem an extreme statement but, you know what I don't think it is, because he is that unfair and twofaced. Metro can suck a big fat one, if he's not already doing so.

[rickydavisfan21]

this was my last UP related post, and I now have everything out on the table so its time to get back to business. What do you think of the Arena Tower Plan, I think that its going to be especially hard to build, not because of floorplan of the tower as far as condos go, but as far as the parking floorplan, people were already talking about how this is going to be implemented in the berkman tower, but I believe this site is even smaller as far as t he parking structure goes, any thoughts?
Just how can you fit parking for 100+ units, with probably 1.5 people per household in a 1/3 acre space??

[charmcity7]

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=27257&view=findpost&p=472180

So Metro posted a nice thing on UP in the past couple days that I just came accross, and in that he said that 98% of the users at UP don't have to worry about being banned. I'd like to show differently, so heres an easy to find statistic, today shcwilj joined UP and he became user number 11679 but yet there are only 8813 registered members. Simple Subtraction shows that there are 2866 members who have either been blocked or have deactivated their account either way, not good for UP. Metro says 2% that is obvious bullshit.
Take that metro, and another thing about marc (metro) and his ideas. You can see his love of power by simply looking at the description box on the left side of his posts. Where does it say he's from? The panopticon. For those of you whom don't know what a panopticon is, its well let me just direct you to the wikipedia definition because it saves me from getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. The Panopticon is a type of prison building designed by the philosopher Jeremy Bentham. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience."
Panopticon was designed to also utilize visual effects such as venitian blinds so the prisoners cannot see when they are being observed. He is the omnipresent omniscient godlike feature of urban planet, at least so he thinks. What an arrogant ass hole. He is watching all of ya'll at all times, even on this site, be careful what you say. He will have you on his watch list as soon as he can. He made some direct comments to me that I did not enjoy very much. So if you talk about metro as he talks about banned forumers like myself
1. They won't admit they are wrong. Metro does not admit he's wrong, he simply doesn't know how, his word is doctrine
2. He says they will state that UP is unfair, well of course he doesn't think he's unfair but seriously metro, if thats a trend among banned posters, ever thought hey maybe it is unfair, whats 2866+ peoples word against 1 mans(maybe two, Neo in his blind glory)
3. Overstate their importance, Do i need to elaborate on this I already eluded to the panopticon...
4. You are still paranoid enough metro to go beyond your borders and read a site that you don't admin, get a life.'

UP is the most Orwellian place I've ever observed. Metro edits everything sent to you from UP, any email send you'll notice a cc from metro, its terrible, it is never actually from neo, does he even exist, is he just a figament of metro and each of our imagination, trying to show that there is another decisionmaker on UP other than Metro.

So since he is probably reading this as I post it, everyone wave at metro, *waves*, I'm sure you were a good person in some lifetime, I know there is some greatness deep down inside.

Oh yes, I forgot to add something about metro's post, "This includes PMs, emails, suspensions and other methods to try and work with the person. By the time we ban someone, they should either know that it is coming or are so clueless or self absorbed they don't need to be here anyway. In the particular example you mention, all of this was done. "

They don't try to work with you, they attack you, your intelligence, your wellbeing and your life in general, to say metro has ever worked with a poster is to say hitler liked jews. And this may seem an extreme statement but, you know what I don't think it is, because he is that unfair and twofaced. Metro can suck a big fat one, if he's not already doing so.


CAN I JUST ADD THAT METROGIRL IS A F%@!ING BITCH!!!!!!!!!! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :scouserd: :cheers:

[rickydavisfan21]

Hey now, calm down, lets be professional with our comments, what is your problem with Marc. I guess I myself wasn't very professional but neither is he.

[charmcity7]

Hey now, calm down, lets be professional with our comments, what is your problem with Marc. I guess I myself wasn't very professional but neither is he.


i know, i'm just a little heated!! he banned me after my 4th post for stating that unfortunately the violent crime rate in charlotte has been rising drastically over the past year.
Which it is

[rickydavisfan21]

After taking a good look at Uptownliving's Massing Diagram, I have a new opinion on this tower, that is, if his massing diagram is correct, it would be very possible to have decent parking, I don't know if anybody has been in the interstate tower/city club parking, and its the absolute worst, and this parking deck, believe it or not would have more sq. footage than the parking deck at interstate tower, so maybe it would be possible. I personally am not worried at all about the condos and hotel working out, because 1/3 of an acre is a lot bigger than you think, but in parking there has to be room for elevators, stairs, and cars. You can arrange a condo anyway you want, but a parking has to be pretty much a set way.

[uptownliving]

For my massing diagram all I did was add about 20 floors to the 5 story building that was already part of the rendering. If it is to scale or not I have no idea...but I was thinking about the Interstate Tower parking deck as well...it is very tight but it works.

[rickydavisfan21]

Thats what I had figured you had done, so It would technically be in scale to the floorplan.

[supkof]

Hello all fellow UPers. SBCMetroGuy here. :)

[krazeeboi]

Hey dude!

[rickydavisfan21]

howdy!!! Glad to see some people coming out of the woodwork, I'm a lil in shock about atlrvr right now, I wish I had a User name on UP so I could say goodbye hopefully he'll announce his depature on here as well, we'll miss you atlrvr!!!!!

[atlrvr]

Thank Rickydavisfan21......hopefully things go well for you as you finish up school, and you chose to make Charlotte your home afterwards.

[prongz]

Your math and assumptions are wrong. The difference in the numbers is caused by people who sign up for an account but never verify and become registered. All forums work that way.


http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=27257&view=findpost&p=472180

So Metro posted a nice thing on UP in the past couple days that I just came accross, and in that he said that 98% of the users at UP don't have to worry about being banned. I'd like to show differently, so heres an easy to find statistic, today shcwilj joined UP and he became user number 11679 but yet there are only 8813 registered members. Simple Subtraction shows that there are 2866 members who have either been blocked or have deactivated their account either way, not good for UP. Metro says 2% that is obvious bullshit.
Take that metro, and another thing about metro and his ideas. You can see his love of power by simply looking at the description box on the left side of his posts. Where does it say he's from? The panopticon. For those of you whom don't know what a panopticon is, its well let me just direct you to the wikipedia definition because it saves me from getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. The Panopticon is a type of prison building designed by the philosopher Jeremy Bentham. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience."
Panopticon was designed to also utilize visual effects such as venitian blinds so the prisoners cannot see when they are being observed. He is the omnipresent omniscient godlike feature of urban planet, at least so he thinks. What an arrogant ass hole. He is watching all of ya'll at all times, even on this site, be careful what you say. He will have you on his watch list as soon as he can. He made some direct comments to me that I did not enjoy very much. So if you talk about metro as he talks about banned forumers like myself
1. They won't admit they are wrong. Metro does not admit he's wrong, he simply doesn't know how, his word is doctrine
2. He says they will state that UP is unfair, well of course he doesn't think he's unfair but seriously metro, if thats a trend among banned posters, ever thought hey maybe it is unfair, whats 2866+ peoples word against 1 mans(maybe two, Neo in his blind glory)
3. Overstate their importance, Do i need to elaborate on this I already eluded to the panopticon...
4. You are still paranoid enough metro to go beyond your borders and read a site that you don't admin, get a life.'

UP is the most Orwellian place I've ever observed. Metro edits everything sent to you from UP, any email send you'll notice a cc from metro, its terrible, it is never actually from neo, does he even exist, is he just a figament of metro and each of our imagination, trying to show that there is another decisionmaker on UP other than Metro.

So since he is probably reading this as I post it, everyone wave at metro, *waves*, I'm sure you were a good person in some lifetime, I know there is some greatness deep down inside.

Oh yes, I forgot to add something about metro's post, "This includes PMs, emails, suspensions and other methods to try and work with the person. By the time we ban someone, they should either know that it is coming or are so clueless or self absorbed they don't need to be here anyway. In the particular example you mention, all of this was done. "

They don't try to work with you, they attack you, your intelligence, your wellbeing and your life in general, to say metro has ever worked with a poster is to say hitler liked jews. And this may seem an extreme statement but, you know what I don't think it is, because he is that unfair and twofaced. Metro can suck a big fat one, if he's not already doing so.

[CLTNC]

Maybe we should start a new post about UP, and how Metro.m deals with the members.

[rickydavisfan21]

Nah he would like that too much, the best thing to do is ignore him and persuade other users to join here. Lets not forget this is SSC, not UP so what happens there, should not be discussed here, because this is an urbanplanet free environement, I just felt the need to vent, I know we have all had problems with metro.m in the past, but thats where they all lie, in the past, so lets talk about how we love urban development and skyscrapers and such, without the angst without the hatred, just you and me and our passion for skyscrapers and other things discussed on this site.

[CLTNC]

I hear Wachovia will give details in about 2 weeks, and the condo tower details will be given too.

[uptownliving]

Your math and assumptions are wrong. The difference in the numbers is caused by people who sign up for an account but never verify and become registered. All forums work that way.

LOL, thanks for explaining that to us metro.

[PrettyHairShawn]

^^^^Yea, and Huntersville is the center of the Charlotte Metro. He's so bias towards Huntersville and the Northern Mecklenburg towns. They are still suburbs. He puts random stuff about Huntersville and say it's true. Most of us, if we claim something, we usually provide back up with an article or something.

[Carolina Blue]

Blvd Centro won the bidding war on the 1/3 acre Bobcats Arena land parcel tonight. City Council approved their deal to pay $2.4M for the city owned land at the corner of Trade and Caldwell. They now have 120 days to finalize and close on the sale.

Their current plans are to build a 25 story tower that will house a hotel, condos, and parking. Here is a rough massing diagram I did that shows what a 25 story tower might look on the site.

http://www.clturban.com/images/blvdcentrotower.jpg
Below are a few photos to put the site into perspective, albeit from the wrong side. I’m sure Furman will look to compliment the Courtside condo tower; and naturally the arena.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/100_0527.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/100_0528.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/100_0531.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/100_0532.jpg

[uptownliving]

Nice photos CarolinaBlue...where did you take them from?

[krazeeboi]

GOSH, Courtside looks so Myrtle Beach-esque.

[rickydavisfan21]

am I correct in saying the building accross brevard from the tower/arena is going to be the federal courthouse?

[uptownliving]

am I correct in saying the building accross brevard from the tower/arena is going to be the federal courthouse?

The federal courthouse will go on the parking lot across Caldwell St from the Arena. The parking lot is bounded by Caldwell, 5th, Davidson, and Trade.

[rickydavisfan21]

yea caldwell, wrong road sorry. So, the shootings last night really makes me lose faith in humanity, from the cities standpoint and from the peoples standpoint, any thoughts?

[uptownliving]

my thoughts are that you could create a seperate thread on it.

[Carolina Blue]

Nice photos CarolinaBlue...where did you take them from?
The BofA Plaza Building

[Style™]

didja take any photos of epicenter?

[Carolina Blue]

didja take any photos of epicenter?
Yep, they're in the little Epicentre thread below. It doesn't look like much is going on, but I've watch the progress and I must say I'm impressed with the speed at which this development is moving. It does indeed look like "somthing" will be completed next year. They're zooming.

[Justadude]

^ Yeah, when you consider the sheer scale of the project, the progress they've made is really impressive. It's not easy to build an entire city block.

[UrbanMyth]

"Prongz" is MEtroM? Why is he snooping around SSC?

[rickydavisfan21]

Vue charlotte just keeps adding rendering after rendering, now they have new pix of the amenity deck, the A, B, C, and Penthouse Bathrooms, and the media room, wow, oh and penthouse day and night

[krazeeboi]

They'd better stick a shovel in the ground.

[uptownliving]

The VUE Charlotte's rezoning request will be voted on by the Charlotte City Council on July 17th. I expect it to be approved without any problems.

After that they have to apply for building permits...which for a building that size will take a while. Don't expect any shovels in the ground before the end of the year.

[Justadude]

Anyone know when Citadin breaks ground? That's going to be a huge project, but you hear next to nothing about it.

[krazeeboi]

^I was wondering about Citadin myself. Haven't heard anything lately.

[TarheelsCubs]

The VUE Charlotte's rezoning request will be voted on by the Charlotte City Council on July 17th. I expect it to be approved without any problems.

After that they have to apply for building permits...which for a building that size will take a while. Don't expect any shovels in the ground before the end of the year.

So, why is it taking this long for a stupid permit. I hate waiting! Bigger cities it seems gets the shovel in the ground a lot faster.

[Rufus]

i will add to the pot of UPers here on SSC. I am not banned though, but i dont usually post a whole lot. this site is a little more open.

anyways, question, or should i say questions.

1. The 25 story condo tower at the arena is supposed to be a pencil tower right?
2. I was told an upscale hotel would occupy the majority of the tower, is that true?
3. what are the plans regarding the parcels around the arena, like across the street.
4. what has happened to the three novare towers rumored on the other side of the skyline? when should we expect info on this project?

sorry if this is too many questions at once, i have a lot of catching up to do bc i was out of the country for the past three weeks. feel free to answer these questions if you have any info.

[supkof]

howdy!!! Glad to see some people coming out of the woodwork, I'm a lil in shock about atlrvr right now, I wish I had a User name on UP so I could say goodbye hopefully he'll announce his depature on here as well, we'll miss you atlrvr!!!!!

Hey to you and to krazeeboi! :)

Tell me... what's up with atlrvr... where's he going!?!?

[rickydavisfan21]

i will add to the pot of UPers here on SSC. I am not banned though, but i dont usually post a whole lot. this site is a little more open.

anyways, question, or should i say questions.

1. The 25 story condo tower at the arena is supposed to be a pencil tower right?
2. I was told an upscale hotel would occupy the majority of the tower, is that true?
3. what are the plans regarding the parcels around the arena, like across the street.
4. what has happened to the three novare towers rumored on the other side of the skyline? when should we expect info on this project?

sorry if this is too many questions at once, i have a lot of catching up to do bc i was out of the country for the past three weeks. feel free to answer these questions if you have any info.

1. Well pencil tower is really a term thats designated for hong kong, but that is yes the general idea of the tower, it is small enough of a footprint to be called as such, so on UP, before I was banned, I used the example of pencil towers to prove that it was not such a architectural feat.

2. Upscale Hotel..... Kinda, its not really going to be upscale and what you expect, its a better rated extended stay hotel, you know for people that want to stay a week for a set price, thats generally lower, than staying per day at most hotels.

3. accross from the arena there is plans for the new federal courthouse, which won't start construction for a couple more years, the moratorium on federal courthouses ended this year and now the design of it be started, as well as the planning. there is supposed to be 2 years of designing I believe, but my memory doesn't serve me that well, I just woke up and am on the way to charlotte from savannah.

4. The novare project doesn't haveta happen now, its part of an investment in this city that novare is making, an investment for the future, I would expect however, for them to be announced in the winter of 2006, or the spring of 2007, we have a lil while, I'm more focused on when twelvecharlotte is going to break ground, and more like it, when we are going to see a rendering.

any other questions?

[rickydavisfan21]

Hey to you and to krazeeboi! :)

Tell me... what's up with atlrvr... where's he going!?!?

altrvr is moving to boston for a new job, :-( leaving his hometown of charlotte :-(

[uptownliving]

So, why is it taking this long for a stupid permit. I hate waiting! Bigger cities it seems gets the shovel in the ground a lot faster.

The VUE's rezoning request isn't taking any longer than most other projects. It takes on average about 6 months from start to finish. In Charlotte most projects have to have pre-sells first before they can even get started on rezoning and building permits. There are examples of buildings that don't have to get pre-sells...off the top of my head The new Wachoiva tower where construction started months ago , the Avenue, and the Tower. There are others but for the most part there has to be a certain amount of pre-sells or pre-leasing before any shovel is going to be stuck in the ground.

Good things come to those who wait...and Charlotte has a lot of good things coming in the next few years.

[Justadude]

As has been anticipated for a little while now, the Johnston building is being converted into office/condos. This helps secure the future of the building (though I highly, highly doubt it would ever have been permitted for someone to demolish it), but I have a hard time imagining it with a residential component. It just has a very old-timey commercial look to it.

That's going to be another residential project within a few hundred feet of the Square.

[oresaw]

It's not being converted into office/condos, it is being converted into office condos. There won't be any residential space in the building. All they are doing is changing the rentable office space into buyable office space which will allow the current tenants to buy thier spaces. The whole thing will still be offices.

[krazeeboi]

^That's what I thought from viewing the sign. I, too, would have a hard time viewing the building as residential.

[Justadude]

^ Sorry, I misread the blurb that I saw. That makes a lot more sense given the history and general nature of the building.

[uptownliving]

The building permits for the 210 Trade condo tower were applied for last week. This is the last step before we start to see this thing rise up 53 stories.

[Justadude]

They're now putting the final exterior elements onto 230 S. Tryon, and it looks like they're beginning to move debris out of the adjacent lot.

[tiblerbrit]

Have they started building the Ruth's Chris yet. Also how long will it take for the building permits to be issued for the twotentrade tower?

[uptownliving]

Have they started building the Ruth's Chris yet. Also how long will it take for the building permits to be issued for the twotentrade tower?

They have started site work on the Ruth's Chris Steakhouse as Justadude already stated. They already have the building permit to build the shell and are working on getting their permit to upfit the space.

It will probably take 210 Trade a while to get its building permits...since it is so large it just takes time to review all those blue prints. We are talking at least a couple months before it is approved.

[TarheelsCubs]

Over on UP they are talking about a new tower that would be kind of like a timeshare. It would be 52 stories and built by a florida developer. It will be called "Charlotte Club"

Is this an update to the reflection towers?

Someone over there said it was in the CBJ

Can anyone comfirm this?

Anyway, this would be amazing! Hope the design kicks ass!

[rickydavisfan21]

man Charlotte is going to have the most dynamic CBD's in the south, I say CBD, because if you count midtown and buckhead in ATL they still kick our butt, but just imagine 53 stories, 52 stories, 51 stories (with two spires) and a very large 46 stories, incredible :-D

[uptownliving]

Over on UP they are talking about a new tower that would be kind of like a timeshare. It would be 52 stories and built by a florida developer. It will be called "Charlotte Club"

Is this an update to the reflection towers?

Someone over there said it was in the CBJ

Can anyone comfirm this?

Anyway, this would be amazing! Hope the design kicks ass!

Its on the front page of the CBJ...they have a rendering...but it is of the tower they were going to build at the arena site.
-52 story tower
-Would go on the current Rennainse Place site...next to the Days Inn on N Tryon.
-$60M development
-80 units (35 for sale and 45 time share)
-Developed by the McClain Real Estate Co. based in Charlotte.

[TarheelsCubs]

Its on the front page of the CBJ...they have a rendering...but it is of the tower they were going to build at the arena site.
-52 story tower
-Would go on the current Rennainse Place site...next to the Days Inn on N Tryon.
-$60M development
-80 units (35 for sale and 45 time share)
-Developed by the McClain Real Estate Co. based in Charlotte.


So it is for real??? Holy....

Will they use the same design?

[norm21499]

can someone post the design from the journal's front page?

[oresaw]

I 2nd Norm. I'm not in Charlotte right now and don't have access to buying a CBJ.

[atlrvr]

I'm wondering if those numbers are also based upon their arena plan. $60M seems awfully low for a 52 story tower.....also, 80 units is what they were planning at the arena parcel.....sounds like a possible reporting mix-up.

[waccamatt]

I got banned from there for 2 weeks for posting about an immigration rally. That's some bullshit. Urbanplanet sucks.

I got banned for a week for calling a moderator to task about making a misleading statement and saying it was typical of what I saw as the arrogance of some people who live in Charlotte. Freedom of speech is not in effect on UP.

[Dale]

I got banned for a week for calling a moderator to task about making a misleading statement and saying it was typical of what I saw as the arrogance of some people who live in Charlotte. Freedom of speech is not in effect on UP.

Well, UP is not the government. But I know how you feel.

[TarheelsCubs]

This board is overall better than UP. However, UP is better for Charlotte news and updates. The best thing to do is just read at UP...lol

[Dale]

^ I borrow my dog's muzzle when I'm on UP.

[uptownliving]

I'm wondering if those numbers are also based upon their arena plan. $60M seems awfully low for a 52 story tower.....also, 80 units is what they were planning at the arena parcel.....sounds like a possible reporting mix-up.

Yeah that is what I was wondering... numbers don't seem to add up. Maybe they got 52 backwords and meant to say 25.

:)

[rickydavisfan21]

http://www.simon.com/mall/LeasingSheet%5CSouth%20Park788.pdf

haven't seen this on UP or here, so I thought I'd share it, it has some interesting things in it, like pretty recent aerial photo of southpark, including some renderings of the villege at Southpark, and an updated map of the mall, its interesting. I'm wondering when there will be something built in the dick's parking lot because seriously guys, have you ever seen that lot full I have a couple friends that work at dick's and yea, it doesn't fill up and its a huge waste of space, what an expansive place tho, seriously, it really has grown a lot.

[uptownliving]

That is a nice find...in the future please post this kind of stuff in the Charlotte Development News Thread...http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=9205842#post9205842

[rickydavisfan21]

love how atlrvr posted it on UP 8 hours after I posted it here, haha, its all good atlrvr I forgive you just try to give me some credit. :-D. I posted it here because it was more about the residences at the village at southpark, but I guess its really about the cohesive village itself.

[teshadoh]

I got banned for a week for calling a moderator to task about making a misleading statement and saying it was typical of what I saw as the arrogance of some people who live in Charlotte. Freedom of speech is not in effect on UP.
You just have to ignore him, best advice I can give you...

[atlrvr]

love how atlrvr posted it on UP 8 hours after I posted it here, haha, its all good atlrvr I forgive you just try to give me some credit. :-D. I posted it here because it was more about the residences at the village at southpark, but I guess its really about the cohesive village itself.

Sorry RD21.....it honestly was totally coincidental.....I started googling the Village of SP after StevenRocks pointed out that there were some new images in SP magazine.

SSC is banned at my new work, but I can still access UP.

Maybe this is a case of great minds thinking alike? Anyway, I tried to make amend there.

[Justadude]

Yeah that is what I was wondering... numbers don't seem to add up. Maybe they got 52 backwords and meant to say 25.

:)

I counted the floors on the diagram... comes out to 25.

[rickydavisfan21]

haha atlrvr, don't worry I wasn't mad or anything just found it interesting, haha, that is exactly what I did after he mentioned it as well, haha, great minds thing alike for sure. How's Beantown, I'm gonna organize a UP, SSC, meet-up one of these days, to you know hit a bar or so, who knows, next time I'm in town, but I sure miss you guys as well, well except the obvious person, well I do miss metro's crazy ideas and over the top antics. Next time you are in Charlotte we'll Organize a UP, SSC get together

[uptownliving]

According to WCNC the Met Lofts condo project has just about sold out after being on the market for about a week. 54 of 60 units are under sales contract. Their sister project Met Terraces has 18 of 35 units reserved. Looks like everything is full steam ahead at the Metropolitan project. Next up they will put a 15 story condo tower on the market.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/D_IMAGE.10ca599209f.93.88.f8.2b.7390a0c.jpg

[Justadude]

Looks like another restoration project on Tryon St. is in the works. That empty, squat, modernist building next to BoA Plaza is going to be converted into a mixed-use project. It's good to see something being done with that building, since it's been pretty much gathering dust for 5 years. But I must admit, it's hard to imagine living in such an office-y building.

Other news: Trademark is almost topped out, Avenue is finally making a bit of progress (it's visible on the skyline from some angles), and Epicentre is almost built up to ground level.

[Carolina Blue]

Looks like another restoration project on Tryon St. is in the works. That empty, squat, modernist building next to BoA Plaza is going to be converted into a mixed-use project. It's good to see something being done with that building, since it's been pretty much gathering dust for 5 years. But I must admit, it's hard to imagine living in such an office-y building...
The "redevelopments" happening along South Tryon are incredible.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/Trust.jpg

Posted on Wed, Sep. 06, 2006
DEVELOPMENT / DOUG SMITH
In upscale he trusts
Million-dollar custom condos may boost South Tryon, high-end housing market
DOUG SMITH

Developer's $28 million project taps into uptown's banking past.

Million-dollar custom condos may boost South Tryon, high-end housing market Luxury $1-million-plus condos are among the most desirable units on the upscale end of Charlotte's housing market.

And with that in mind, a local developer wants to create some of uptown's biggest and most expensive condos yet.

Jim Donnelly plans to buy the former Home Federal Savings and Loan Building at 139 S. Tryon St. and convert the seven-story structure to eight living units atop two commercial floors.

The concrete and glass building, vacant for about five years, is a locally designated historic property because of its banking industry significance and Modernist architecture.

Donnelly said he plans to preserve the distinguishing features.

The estimated $28 million project, between Fourth Street and the 40-story Bank of America Plaza Building, would be only footsteps from The Square -- the intersection of Trade and Tryon streets.

Two condos would be 7,000 square feet each and priced in the $3 million range. Six would be 3,500 square feet each and priced in the $1.5 million range.

This might be a Next Big Thing for a couple of reasons: It could confirm the strength of the city's upper-end condo market, and it could help boost South Tryon as a residential as well as a commercial street.

Sandy Kindbom of Allen Tate Realtors' Center City office said the highest priced uptown unit she could recall from the tax records sold for about $1.9 million about 11/2 years ago at ChapelWatch off North Tryon Street.

That was before a flurry of 14 uptown high-rise development announcements, including two 50-story towers with upper-level penthouses.

Contracts on those condos wouldn't show up on public transaction records until buyers close on their units.

Both 50-story The Vue in Fourth Ward and 50-story 210 Trade at College and Trade streets are offering $1 million-range penthouses, but some won't be listed for sale until later.

Developer Flaherty & Collins plans to top 210 Trade with a 12,000-square-foot, two-story residence that includes a 2,000-square-foot terrace. The price is yet to be announced.

Churchill Development Group has sold four of seven 3,217-square-foot penthouses at The Vue in the $1 million range, but it hasn't yet priced six larger 3,744- to 4,337-square-foot penthouses.

Just a few years ago condos selling for more than $500,000 were scarce in Charlotte. Today, 58 are listed for $500,000 or more, said housing analyst Emma Littlejohn of The Littlejohn Group.

Darryl Dewberry of Spectrum Properties, which is converting an office building at 230 S. Tryon St. to condos, said some penthouses there topped 4,000 square feet and sold for more than $1 million.

He believes the market for spacious, luxury condos is deeper than it was just two or three years ago. Among the reasons he cites:

• Charlotte has enjoyed good job growth, including high-paying jobs.

• Owners of existing homes are taking advantage of appreciation and selling their residences to buy condos.

• People arriving from major metropolitan markets sold homes for $1,000 a square foot or higher and are investing here in what they see as "affordable" penthouses.

• Mortgage rates have remained historically low, encouraging residential real estate investment.

Who are the high-end buyers?

"Our experience here has been the buyers are split almost 50-50 between young professionals who have high incomes and retired or semi-retired empty nesters who have lots of equity," said Kindbom at Allen Tate Realtors.

"The high-end purchasers have arrived at a place in their lives that they are discriminating -- they know what they want," she said. "When a new high-rise comes on the market, they gravitate toward it because they have the money to do it."

That's the type of buyer Donnelly would like to attract to the old Home Federal Building, which he plans to rename The Trust in recognition of its banking history.

The interior of the building, completed in 1967, has been gutted so buyers will be able to design a custom home in the shell space, he said.

"We won't have any lower-priced units, so we can orient this project completely to our buyers with high-end concierge service, a wine vault and other amenities they expect," he said.

Donnelly said he's working with lenders on financing and plans to close on the property by mid-November. He expects construction to take about a year.

This is a new venture for Donnelly, who has converted a small building on South Tryon to office condos.

He won't compete in height with the towers, but he believes he's minimizing risk by keeping the project small and distinguishing it from others by giving buyers unusual freedom in designing their homes.

And, he's offering individuals a chance to buy a piece of The Square.

Donnelly would like to sell some units pre-construction, but that won't be a requirement for financing.

The owners of the Hampton Inn and Hilton Garden Hotels are trying something similar on East Second Street near the convention center.

Construction is under way there on 26 luxury units for buyers to customize at prices ranging from the $700,000s to about $1.4 million.

First Charter acquired the Home Federal Building when it bought the savings and loan about eight years ago. It later closed the nearly 70,000-square-foot structure and moved its uptown office across Tryon.

Southern Development Partners bought the Home Federal building in 2000 with plans to renovate and lease it for offices and commercial uses.

The Charlotte Area Transit System once considered it for a headquarters.

The owners had difficulty attracting office and retail tenants in part because only a few parking spaces were available near the building.

That won't be a problem for the condo project, said Donnelly, who plans to cover an existing lot and provide two-spaces per unit with supplemental deck parking available nearby.

THE DEVELOPER

Jim Donnelly moved to Charlotte from New York about 11/2 years ago to help start Emerson Joseph, a men's grooming lounge.

He is a co-founder of the salon at 221 S. Tryon St. with his wife, Stacy, and her sister Shelly Takats.

Donnelly also was a co-founder of IgoUgo.com, a Internet travel site that was acquired in 2005 by Sabre Holdings.

Donnelly bought the building at 221 S. Tryon with investors and sold the top two floors as office condos. The salon occupies the first floor and basement.

The experience with that project convinced him to put a contract on the nearby Home Federal Building.

Donnelly doesn't claim to be an expert in Charlotte real estate, but "One area I do know a lot about is the two- or three-block area of South Tryon near our building," he said.

THE TRUST CONDOS

The previous owner gutted the old Home Federal Building, which developer Jim Donnelly sees as a plus.

Buyers of the 3,500 and 7,000 square foot units will be able to basically design a custom house inside the floor-to-ceiling glass space.

Condos are expected to sell for an estimated $425 to $450 a square foot.

Donnelly believes owners will design large, open spaces for entertaining and enjoying the views.

Each unit will have at least two terraces, and owners will have access to a rooftop "social plaza" with outdoor seating, entertaining and grilling space.

The building's bank vault will be retained and used for dining and wine storage.

Donnelly said restaurants and retailers consistent with the building's upscale image are being sought for two lower levels of commercial space.

He's working with Clay Elder of ESD Architecture and Interior Design on the conversion and interviewing contractors.

Shane McDevitt of Helen Adams Realty is handling sales and marketing. More info: http://www.thetrustcharlotte.com.

Link: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15448185.htm

[Carolina Blue]

THE NEXT BIG THING
End of SouthPark office towers?
Project shows interest in residential developments
DOUG SMITH

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/SouthFair.jpg
The South Fair Plaza master plan calls for up to 185,00-square feet of retail, 150 hotel rooms and 685 dwellings.

SouthPark's emergence as an urban village with more residents to complement shops and offices is ready to take a giant leap.

LNR Property Corp. has just disclosed plans for a proposed development of condos, apartments, stores, restaurants and hotel rooms on 10.5 acres behind two office towers in the 6000 and 6100 blocks of Fairview Road.

Its master plan calls for up to 185,000 square feet of retail, 150 hotel rooms and 685 dwellings, including 14 stories above shops in each of two condo towers and five stories above retail in each of two condo midrises.

South Fair Plaza wouldn't be the first big mixed-use development in the SouthPark area -- Phillips Place, Piedmont Town Center and Morrison are open or under construction.

But it is different.

What makes this project a Next Big Thing is the way its developers are willing to forego their right under the current zoning to build 1 million square feet of additional offices in the city's fourth-largest office market.

Instead, they're seeking a rezoning for a pedestrian-friendly village across Fairview Road from Piedmont Town Center on the front side and next to the Fairmeadows neighborhood in back.

Demand is so strong near the city's premier mall that shop space and condos should fill much faster than office buildings, said Tom Creasy, who is leading LNR's Carolinas expansion.

As part of the project, the developers would demolish a single-story, 65,000-square-foot building that housed Eastern Airlines reservation center from the early 1960s until the late 1980s.

That takes SouthPark redevelopment to a new level, and it's likely something the area around the mall will see more of, said real estate analyst Frank Warren of Warren & Associates.

As property values increase, he said, residential developers are willing to buy land for prices only commercial developers would have paid five years ago.

Looking at the market, Creasy said, mixing residential and retail seemed more viable than office development on the SouthPark acreage.

"As SouthPark has evolved, residential and retail have become the two most valuable product types," he said.

Over the past 36 years, SouthPark has emerged as an office hub of 30,000 to 40,000 workers rivaling uptown's 55,000.

That encourages condo developers' to build in close proximity, because many of those workers are potential home buyers.

And, Creasy notes, the SouthPark hub is convenient to empty nesters ready to leave nearby single-family homes while still remaining in the neighborhood.

One of his first moves was to share LNR's plans with adjoining Fairmeadows. He said he's getting positive feedback from association leaders.

"Tom is moving in the right direction," said Andrew Newsome, president of the Fairmeadows Neighborhood Association. "Personally, I would rather see shops and high-end restaurants than just another office building."

Initially, there was concern about the potential for heavier traffic and cut-through traffic, "but that has pretty much been put to rest," Newsome said.

LNR wants to include pedestrian and bike paths to make it easy for neighbors to enter the development, and Newsome believes that's a good idea.

"There's no excitement about offices," he said. "They would bring more traffic, and people would cut through the neighborhood on the way to work."

In addition, Newsome, a four-year resident of Fairmeadows, believes a mixed-use development would boost property values more than offices would.

LNR's rezoning petition will go before the City Council in a public hearing Dec. 18.

If it's approved, Creasy said the developers probably would start construction by summer 2007 and open the first buildings by summer 2008.

The main entrance would be a landscaped boulevard with wide sidewalks off Fairview Road between proposed street-level retail and two existing towers.

In the center of the project -- Creasy calls it mid-block -- three to four levels of apartments would be built atop ground-level retail with outdoor seating along sidewalks.

The new buildings would wrap existing parking decks to screen them from view.

Just beyond the retail plaza and closer to the back of the site, LNR plans two condo towers and two condo midrises above shops and restaurants.

First phase construction likely would start near the center of the project and include the retail plaza, one condo tower and one condo midrise.

Creasy said it's too early to estimate the cost, but he believes construction will exceed $200 million.

Smallwood, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart and Associates of Atlanta designed South Fair Plaza. No contractor has been selected.

Miami Beach-based LNR, a real estate investment, finance and management firm, acquired the towers at 6000 and 6100 Fairview and the undeveloped acreage behind them in 2004.

In 2005, it sold the office buildings to the California State Teachers Retirement System but kept the vacant acreage it now wants to develop.

Development

Condos

LNR Property Corp. believes South Fair Plaza's condos will appeal especially to empty nesters.But officials say it's too early to set prices.

LNR's Tom Creasy said unit sizes will vary in the towers and midrises, but he expects the average will be about 1,200 square feet.

A planned boutique hotel likely would be part of one of the condo towers so residents could use the concierge service, he said.

Retail

SouthPark mall's upscale stores are a magnet for other retailers.

Even though South Fair Plaza is still in the planning stages, national retailers already are expressing interest, said LNR's Tom Creasy.

The project would be within walking distance of the mall, office buildings and nearby neighborhoods.

Potential tenants range from retail boutiques to national restaurant chains.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/15673124.htm

[Style™]

http://www.charlotte.com/images/charlotte/charlotte/15731/247464769006.gif

DEVELOPMENT A Charlotte neighborhood that fell to urban renewal in the 1960s would be remembered in a redevelopment proposed for Second Ward.

Brooklyn Village, a name derived from the former African American neighborhood of Brooklyn, would include "affordable" housing among offices, shops and restaurants.

Charlotte's Spectrum Properties wants to develop the $135 million urban village for its client, Mass Mutual, as part of a public-private land swap.

Marshall Park and the neighboring Board of Education property would go to the developers in exchange for a public park site in Third Ward.

The county's existing Third Ward park property would become home to a $30 million to $35 million baseball stadium to be built and privately owned by the Charlotte Knights.

The land swap (see the explanatory box on this page) requires city and county approval and after several months of negotiations is far from a done deal.

Up until now, the stadium, which would require about $7.8 million in public money mainly for street and sidewalk improvements, has generated debate and attracted most of the attention.

But the other side of the deal -- the potential to ignite Second Ward's revival -- might be a Next Big Thing waiting to happen.

Brooklyn Village would include 420 condos, 300 apartments, a six- to seven-story office building, a 5-acre park, six to eight restaurants, a small grocery, shops and office condos.

"We've seen the pie in the sky," said City Council member James Mitchell, whose District 2 includes Second Ward. "This is the first reality plan we've had."

He said he hasn't decided how he will vote on the land swap, but as for Brooklyn Village, " I'm going to champion it as much as I can."

The master plan accompanying this story is the public's first glimpse of how the village components would fit together.

The project would cover about 8 acres of a larger redevelopment Charlotte-Mecklenburg planners proposed in a sweeping Second Ward master plan adopted about four years ago.

Planners foresee a dense mixed-income community of 3,000 to 5,000 residents, parks and grand boulevards within a 114-acre area bounded by Third Street, Brevard Street and Interstate 277.

Critics of the land swap might argue that the momentum is strong enough uptown to carry over into Second Ward, but planners have estimated that piecemeal development could take 20 years or more.

Getting started soon is important. The city wants to make Brevard Street more pedestrian friendly and build connections in Second Ward to the planned NASCAR Hall of Fame and the convention center.

And citizens who participated in a Second Ward master planning study begun in 2001 -- including City Council member Warren Turner -- are tired of waiting.

Still, he said, he needs more specific information about Brooklyn Village and the land swap before he makes a decision.

Spectrum Properties Chairman Jim Dulin believes Brooklyn Village could accelerate the Second Ward development process and point the way for others.

He said the developers would adhere to the neighborhood master plan, embrace the history of Brooklyn and emphasize diversity in housing pricing and construction hiring.

Council member Mitchell said that's why he likes it.

For more than 70 years, Brooklyn was an active and economically diverse community with businesses, schools, a library and meeting places.

Longtime Charlotte residents remember it as home to some of the city's most prosperous and educated African Americans as well as working-class families.

Second Ward High School, dedicated in 1923, was the first in the county to serve African American teenagers and was regarded as the heart of Brooklyn.

"I want to restore the old Second Ward gym to a fun and active community center, and I want to pursue actively getting a new Second Ward High School in the village," Dulin said.

That's a proposal the school board, of course, would have to embrace and approve.

If the land swap gets the green light by the end of this year as supporters hope, development of Brooklyn Village could start by spring and be completed over three years, Dulin said.

Construction would begin with the office building and accompanying parking deck, so Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools' headquarters could relocate there, he said.

Michael Smith, president of Charlotte Center City Partners, is working with officials to win approval of the land swap.

"This really shapes our center city in ways that are more family friendly -- affordable housing, affordable family entertainment and a couple of great urban parks," he said.

DEVELOPMENT

Proposed Land Swap

Charlotte Center City Partners' proposal for a baseball stadium uptown would involve $28 million in public land and $7.8 million in city-supplied infrastructure such as streets and sidewalks around the stadium.The Charlotte Knights would use private funding to build a $30 million to $35 million facility on the former Third Ward park site, bounded by Mint, Graham, Second and Fourth streets.

Third Ward landowner Mass Mutual would make available privately owned land for a new 5.2-acre Third Ward park and a park entrance off South Tryon.

To make the deal work, government bodies would have to arrange a six-way land swap.

Mass Mutual, represented by Charlotte's Spectrum Properties, would end up with Marshall Park and the Board of Education's office property bordering the park in Second Ward.

The county and Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools would get a new school system headquarters in an office building to be developed there.

Spectrum Properties would spearhead development of Brooklyn Village, a $135 million mixed-use project that would include the Marshall Park site and school board property.

As part of the redevelopment, a new 5-acre public park would replace Marshall Park. Brooklyn Village Overview

Here's what Spectrum Properties is proposing in a project that was planned with help from LandDesign Inc., LS3P Associates Ltd. and Gantt Huberman Architects:

• Housing: Two condo projects totaling 420 units, a "significant" number of which would be workforce housing within reach, for example, of government workers such as police officers, firefighters and administrative staffers. About 300 apartments. The developers are working with the Charlotte Housing Authority to make 40 to 50 units available as "affordable" housing.

• Office: Six- to seven-story building with 180,000 square feet of space, including one or two floors for the school system's headquarters. Office condos facing the county courthouse.

• Retail: 60,000 to 70,000 square feet on street level, including a small grocery and shops, six to eight restaurants ranging perhaps from a sushi bar to a tavern.

• Public space: A 5-acre park with a bandshell, flower gardens, community center and tennis courts.

• Community center: A restored Second Ward gym would host community meetings and provide activities for young people. It would be financed through a private fundraising effort.

• School: A proposed new magnet Second Ward High, subject to the support and approval of the school board.

Timetable

Charlotte Center City Partners President Michael Smith, who suggested the land swap in December, said he's still meeting with public officials and answering their questions.

So far, he said, the land swap makes financial sense with all the participating parties fully compensated for their property.

The biggest sticking point with elected officials so far has been the $7.8 million the public is being asked to chip in to make the baseball stadium happen.

Smith said more updates with governing bodies are planned with a goal of asking for a vote on the proposal in November.

At that point, he said, the governing bodies would be asked to agree in broad terms without signing definitive agreements, which would come later.

He said a study is under way to determine the economic impact of all the new development proposed as a result of the swap. Doug Smith

[Justadude]

This land-swap idea has really stuck around, to the point that I'm starting to believe it will happen (I wouldn't have thought that 6 months ago). I still think that South End is a much better location for the stadium, but it looks like good plans are being made on the basis of the land swap plan being successful.