I would like to visit Indy this summer and am just recently beginning to learn its layout. It seems that all of the major chain establishments, national retailers, and new concepts to the area locate on Indy's far north side, or north suburbs (Carmel, ect.). Obviously this is the metro's hotspot, as I have seen online, examples of multiple locations of the same establishment in seemingly rather close proximatey here, with no locations elsewhere in the metro area. Is this the main area of growth and development away from the city? What direction has the least amount of growth away from the city center? What are the other sides of the city like? How is the south side, Greenwood, ect? Where are the not so good areas of Indy? Is the city itself rather developed or is are there still farmland areas in the actual city limits? It also seems like Indy does not have that many suburbs compared to other cities of comparable size such as Milwaukee, is this true? If so, is it because the city itself seems to encompass such a broad area? Lastly, how does D/T Indy compare to D/T Milwaukee, which has come a long way in the last 5 years? Any info about this stuff would be really cool and greatly appreciated!

Well i'll give u a brief overview of each Indy side. NORTH side of course is the "uppity" rich area of Inpls when you get past 86/82nd street towards Fishes/Carmel/Castleton and even on the west corridor Nora, Meridian Hills, College Park. East side is more of the "under developed" area when you get around Post/Arlington/Sherman/Keystone/Shadeland/ areas. They're not TOO bad but they're ruff looking. However if you venture far east you'll get some nice area such as German Church Rd and Mitthoeffer.

Moving South, Im not too familiar with the southside but its THE most under developed part of the city and definately not as popular. However it definately is going to have the most affordable housing and cheaper rent. Not much of anything there but I think the next big revitialization will be on the south side.

West side of course is the BEST SIDE. I would rate it as being the second best part of the outter downtown core. It has ALL of the aminities of the North side but its definately cheaper and EVERYTHING is near by. Such as Lafeyette Scare (well Sq) and all the restuarants are all on W. 38th St. Some of the best parts are Eagle Creek, Georgetown, Kessler, and even going into western cities Avon, Plainfield, and Brownsberg are all IMO on par with Carmel.

To sum up West side offers everything to the north but CHEAPER and definately less traffic. East and South are the most under developed with the South side being the worst. Areas to avoid I would say anything past Keystone on 38th St until Mitthoefer but even that isnt bad. But of course the Medows projects are on 38th and Keystone by the Fairgrounds.

Hope this helps!

the downtown has been redeveloping since the late 80s/early 90s and is still progressing.

suburbs: i think you are correct; i also believe it has something to do w/ the consolidated city/county gov't - there would have been a lot more if they didn't expand the boundaries years ago (i think i read somewhere they didn't want black folk to control the city, not 100% sure). but some suburbs are: fishers, carmel, zionesville, westfield, brownsburg, avon, (geist is part of indy but it might as well be a suburb), plainfield, southport, greenwood, beech grove, and some others.

Its true that the suburbs arent as old or developed here, but they are growing quickly. I think Carmel and Fishers both have almost 70,000, while Avon, Greenwood and Plainfield must have about 30-40,000 each.

I must respectfully disagree about the West Side--Avon and Plainfield arent bad places at all, but I really do not like the 38th Street corridor. The shopping centers are all unattractive, and moving downscale. Although there are many good international restaurants in this area--this seems to be the center of Indy's immigrant population.

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for.

North side--upscale, chain-heavy, boutique-y

South Side--middle class, chain-heavy, old ethnic spots (Indpls South Side)

West Side--working/middle class, small businesses, immigrant populations

East side--no idea.

Is not the north side also where the poorer neighborhoods are also? How far north do you have to go before it becomes desirable? If 38th st is not as nice, when does this change going north? I read about a neighborhood that sounds nice around the 62nd and College area on AOL citypages, but do not recall the name offhand except I believe it begins with a B. Also is there a big difference between northwest (Traders Point) and northeast say close to Carmel, but on the Indy side? How far north and south do the Indy neighborhoods become more suburban in character and less urban? Is the condo and loft trend hot in Indy, like in Milwaukee or Chicago, and if so what neighborhoods is happening? Thanks to those who have answered so far, but how come not many people seem to know much about the east side, unless this is a dead part of the city maybe?

Is not the north side also where the poorer neighborhoods are also? How far north do you have to go before it becomes desirable? If 38th st is not as nice, when does this change going north? I read about a neighborhood that sounds nice around the 62nd and College area on AOL citypages, but do not recall the name offhand except I believe it begins with a B. Also is there a big difference between northwest (Traders Point) and northeast say close to Carmel, but on the Indy side? How far north and south do the Indy neighborhoods become more suburban in character and less urban? Is the condo and loft trend hot in Indy, like in Milwaukee or Chicago, and if so what neighborhoods is happening? Thanks to those who have answered so far, but how come not many people seem to know much about the east side, unless this is a dead part of the city maybe?
Indy is geographically HUGE, so it's very hard to make generalizations about different sides of town. There are good and bad and all types of neighborhoods on all sides of town.

It would be a lot easier for us if you asked more specific questions and better defined what you consider desirable so that we can help you. Or at least if you asked them one at a time... Exactly what type of environment are you looking for? What do you want to avoid?

As for Indy/Milwaukee downtown comparisons, I last visited Milwaukee in 2002, so I've got a relatively decent idea what it's all about... although much has changed in both cities.

Indy's downtown is much larger than Milwaukee's, and is more populated and entertainment based. It has a lot more activity and nightlife than downtown Milwaukee. It's larger in size and has larger skyscrapers and the density of towers in the business district is what you'd expect to see in a much larger city. There is a lot to do downtown.

Downtown Milwaukee however has much better architecture and has a more charming ambience. This is very much enhanced by the lake and the rivers and canals that crisscross downtown Milwaukee. I'd say that downtown Milwaukee is easily more attractive than downtown Indy.

As for northside Indy... It's the "hotspot" if you're a white pretentious suburbanite with more money (or credit) than sense who wouldn't dream of walking more than a dozen feet when there's a perfectly good SUV nearby... There.... I said it.... I'm not sorry... Broadripple is still pretty nice though. It's not quite as fun as it used to be.

There probably are a few cornfields technically within the city limits. I haven't seen any in years though.

Yep, it all depends on what you want to know about the city. I can help you with quite a bit. Actually Moochie just took the worrds right out my mouth. The worst neighborhoods are concentrated immediately north of downtown, forming a cone from downtown to about 38th street, specifically haughville on the west and brightwood on the east. More specifically zipcodes like 46202, 46205, 46208, and 46218. Indianapolis is a fairly segregated city, although not as much in the past. Still, downtown is quite the place to be at.

what city isn't segregated? (don't have to answer, it is more of a comment)

Is not the north side also where the poorer neighborhoods are also? How far north do you have to go before it becomes desirable? If 38th st is not as nice, when does this change going north? I read about a neighborhood that sounds nice around the 62nd and College area on AOL citypages, but do not recall the name offhand except I believe it begins with a B. Also is there a big difference between northwest (Traders Point) and northeast say close to Carmel, but on the Indy side? How far north and south do the Indy neighborhoods become more suburban in character and less urban? Is the condo and loft trend hot in Indy, like in Milwaukee or Chicago, and if so what neighborhoods is happening? Thanks to those who have answered so far, but how come not many people seem to know much about the east side, unless this is a dead part of the city maybe?

To answer some of your questions:
On the north side, 38th Street is what I would consider a dividing line between the one of the nicest areas of the city (which is also an older area), and one of the least desirable. Ironically the housing stock is not that different immediately on either side of the street, but north of 38th the real estate is well-maintained, and the further north you go the wealthier it gets (up until about Westfield Blvd. or so). The further south of 38th you go, the seedier it gets, until you get to downtown where almost everything is gentrified.

The neighborhood to which you refer at 62nd is called Broadripple, and it's a great neighborhood, albeit quite small as far as the shopping district goes. There are a few great restaurants there, though.

On the far north side (but still within the city limits) everything is pretty much located on or around 86th/82nd Street (same street, it just changes names because it curves a bit). There is not a ton of difference from east to west; most of the shopping ranges from mid-range to extremely upscale. Castleton area (east on 82nd) is a little more mid-range, whereas the Keystone Crossing area (82nd/Keystone) is more upscale. Although 82nd is pretty much chain-land, there are some very good local places sprinkled in along this street; you just have to look. Tell me what you like to eat, and I'll be happy to make some recommendations. :-) Additionally, people on this site tend to turn their noses up at Carmel, Zionsville, etc., but there are actually a few places worth shopping and eating in Carmel and Zionsville. In all reality Carmel is almost identical to northern Washington township in Indy.

I think one of the most obvious differences you'll notice between Indy and Milwaukee is that Indy has a small urban core compared to Milwaukee (with the exception of the immediate downtown). I agree that downtown Indy is larger, taller, and more compact, with more options in general... but outside of downtown there isn't nearly as much density in Indy--it's a much newer city. Far less brick here—most houses are wood frame. You could start at Monument Circle and drive one mile west, east, or south, and no longer feel that you’re in the “urban” part of the city. I’m not talking cul-de-sacs and SUVs, but there won’t be the blocks and blocks of dense, multi-level brick buildings like you find in Milwaukee. The older parts of the north side (between 38th and downtown) are where you’ll find these neighborhoods, with lots of large, brick apartment buildings. These stretch about three or four miles north from downtown.

There are is a TON of condo development right now in Indy, but it’s primarily loft conversions and low-rise construction—not nearly as many high-rise developments here (except for Market Square, but that’s still TBD).

As far as the Eastside, people don’t know much about it because it’s probably the most unremarkable area of the city. Probably the most decayed part of the city—lots of economic issues, and not much new development. There are some gems to be found in neighborhoods like Holy Cross, Cottage Home, and Woodruff Place.

I’m sure some of you Indy folks will disagree with me about my opinions, but that’s fine! Feel free to share yours…

Thanx to all responses! Until today I have had to rely on Google maps to learn about Indy, but today I stopped at Milwaukee Map Services and bought myself a Rand Mcnally Indy fold up street finder, so now I can better pinpoint different streets and neighborhoods of the city. My only dissapointment is that this particular map does not cover the entire metro area, let alone even the entire city limits of Indy. Indy must really be huge geographically! It goes north to only a little past 116th st and south just before the city limits. East and West it does not even extend to the city limits, though it does include insets of Greenwood, Plainfield, and Brownsburg.

How is the area around Purdue? What is it like? Someone also mentioned not many brick houses, but mostly wood frame, are there any parts of the city where there are like tudor style houses?

When I say less desirable, I mean higher crime areas and just not too well maintained neighborhoods.

Where are the most racially integrated neighborhoods of Indy? Are they successfully integrated or just in the process of change?

I noticed on my map several suburbs that are completely surrounded by Indy, what are they like and how is the city area around them?

The east side seems to be undesirable, but is this the total east side or just more near east? I see the east side seems to be rather large from downtown. What about far east? Are there many new subdivisions or developments under construction far east or the outskirts of any other area of the city?

Lastly for this post, not to be too much of a pain in the ass, but what is the tallest building in Indy (stories & height), and are any plans for any other tall highrises?

This has been helpful, as I have wondered about Indy as well.

I guess the wost area of Indy is between 38th street and Downtown on the North Side, right?

Also good to know there is another city with a nice and vibrant downtown.

I guess the wost area of Indy is between 38th street and Downtown on the North Side, right?

Not at all really. The area in question is some of our oldest neighborhoods, and large portions are being rehabbed. It was all pretty horrible 10-20 years ago, but it's quickly becoming the great neighborhood it used to be. Fall Creek, Herron Morton, and other historic neighborhoods are in this area. Very hot development areas. Just 10 years ago Herron Morton and the old Northside were some of the worst areas in town. Now they're some of the most exclusive. It's nothing short of breathtaking if you're familiar with the area.

There isn't an entire side of town that should be avoided, but there are neighborhoods on all sides of town that are barely fit for human habitation. I'll list a few:

Mars Hill, Southside. Mostly white trash Crystal Meth heaven. Probably the worst place in Indy. I can't find a single positive thing to say about it.

Brightwood, Eastside. All around high crime and street gang hellhole. Some neighborhood effort to improve the situation.

The Swamp, (near) Eastside. Highly racially mixed, drug infested, high violent crime hellhole. I grew up there. it's been called the "Hard Luck, Hard Man" side of town. The area of blight is getting smaller as downtown expands east and rehab efforts are reclaiming the historic areas. Little Flower and Irvington to the East of the Swamp are going through a much deserved resurgence, also positively affecting the area.

Haughville, Westside. Not all of this historic working class neighborhood is bad, but the bad parts are REALLY bad. There are places that you aren't safe at any time, day or night. Strong community spirit in this area and much reason for hope.

38th street area, Northside. See above

Beech Grove, Southside. Technically it's own city with it's own mayor etc. but is entirely within Indy city limits. It used to be a nice area, but historically has been a white, segregated working class area with a strong reputation for racism. At one point it was illegal to eat fried chicken and watermelon in Beech Grove park in a mindbogglingly ludicrous attempt to keep black people out. Within the last decade or two, a lot of Railroad and automotive jobs have been lost, causing established families to sell... to anyone... This has caused massive white flight, and Beech Grove is now a racially mixed economically depressed area. This assessment may be controversial.

Spotty areas in and around Lawrence, Northeastside. Most of Lawrence is fine, but not all... The longterm negative effects of sprawl reveal themselves in some pretty depressing ways. This is an area that has financially stable white people and very poor blacks living in close proximity. Racial tensions are high and have been for quite a while. This combined with the closure and reorganization of Fort Benjamin Harrison have devastated some parts of this area. Fort Ben isn't really in Lawrence, but for some reason, a disproportionate percentage of people in Lawrence worked at Fort Bennie. Property values are down, and undesirables are taking over... I see Lawrence getting worse in coming decades. Lawrence is also technically it's own city with it's own government totally inside Indy city limits.

Perhaps some other Indy people can review the other bad neighborhoods. I didn't get to Ravenswood, and Fountain Square is pretty complex and hard to explain to an outsider, but certainly is important ... I love (some of) that area.

It sure is unpleasant including the whole race thing in neighborhood/poverty assessments, but it's relevant and unavoidable imho. Sad but true.

Thanx to all responses! Until today I have had to rely on Google maps to learn about Indy, but today I stopped at Milwaukee Map Services and bought myself a Rand Mcnally Indy fold up street finder, so now I can better pinpoint different streets and neighborhoods of the city. My only dissapointment is that this particular map does not cover the entire metro area, let alone even the entire city limits of Indy. Indy must really be huge geographically! It goes north to only a little past 116th st and south just before the city limits. East and West it does not even extend to the city limits, though it does include insets of Greenwood, Plainfield, and Brownsburg.

How is the area around Purdue? What is it like? Someone also mentioned not many brick houses, but mostly wood frame, are there any parts of the city where there are like tudor style houses?

When I say less desirable, I mean higher crime areas and just not too well maintained neighborhoods.

Where are the most racially integrated neighborhoods of Indy? Are they successfully integrated or just in the process of change?

I noticed on my map several suburbs that are completely surrounded by Indy, what are they like and how is the city area around them?

The east side seems to be undesirable, but is this the total east side or just more near east? I see the east side seems to be rather large from downtown. What about far east? Are there many new subdivisions or developments under construction far east or the outskirts of any other area of the city?

Lastly for this post, not to be too much of a pain in the ass, but what is the tallest building in Indy (stories & height), and are any plans for any other tall highrises?
I assume by Purdue, You're talking about IUPUI right? (Indiana University and Purdue University at Indianapolis) It's a developing area in the immediate vicinity, and is doing well, but not too much historical residential. A lot of new construction. Just to the west is Haughville.

The Near East side is "The Swamp". It contains some nice areas too, I wrote about it above. Most of the far Eastside is perfectly safe, but perhaps it's best to describe it as economically stagnant, but stable. It's sprawly, but has good areas too. Far east is highly influenced by Washington square which is still a good large mall. the far Eastside is pretty decent, with some areas getting much better. Notably Cumberland.

Those suburbs inside city limits are Beech Grove, Lawrence and Speedway among others. I didn't write about Speedway. It's totally dependent on the Indy 500 for obvious reasons... Like the Eastside, it could be described as economically stagnant, but stable. It's seen some infrastructure improvements recently, particularly the beautification efforts on West 16th street..

The tallest building in Indy is the Chase tower, 830 feet tall, with only 49 stories. It looks like a bionic cockroach rearing up on it's hind legs poised to attack. Indy is likely to see as many as 4 to 8 new highrises in the next 5 years, all 30+ stories A few more 200-300 foot 20+ story condo/mixed use buildings are likely on Washington street downtown in this time frame as well. Downtown is booming... Now if only we could get some good architecture...


To list the new towers:

Conrad Hotel and residences, 24 story 5 star hotel/condo. Under construction, topped out. Corner of Washington and Illinois streets.

Simon Associates headquarters. 15? stories, 250 feet. Under construction, topped out. Corner of Maryland and Capitol streets.

One Market Square. two 31 story 350 foot mostly luxury condo mixed use towers built on the former site of Market Square arena The first tower will break ground this summer. The second tower will be built if the first is successful. I'd say it's probable. The company that owns this also owns the vacant city block to the East, and has stated in the past that it wants to build another two towers there. Pure speculation at this point.

Penn Tower (hotel and residences). mixed use with strong office component. This is the pet project of a couple friends of mine. 30 to 40 stories, 400-600 feet. The design is constrained by historical limitations, but it will be in the Chicago School design and will match 1920's modern Chicago architecture. They are trying very hard to build an attractive tower that will impress Indy and make a good impression seeing as it's in a very visible area to visitors. It's an ego thing.. but that's not all bad right? this will probably break ground early 2007. Corner of Maryland and Pennsylvania streets.

2 mixed use residential towers. connected on the weird intersection of Washington, Pennsylvania and Virginia street. Skywalks will span Virginia street. This has been announced, but has been hush hush for some reason. I even know someone involved, who won't tell me a thing. Word is that there will be at least two towers, one about 25 stories tall, one more like 17 stories. 350 foot tall at the tallest. This project will involve tearing down the Zipper building and parts of Jefferson Plaza and possibly the JA building. This project is probable, but no one seems to know what's going on. Some demo and renovation has begun at part of the Jefferson Plaza, but not much.

Pan Am hotel, Pan Am Plaza. The mayor has asked someone... anyone... to put up a 1000 room hotel at Pan Am Plaza SOON. Space is very limited, so this would likely be a 40 to 60 story hotel, and may be one of the tallest buildings in Indy. This is needed because of the billion dollar expansion of the convention center and new Indiana stadium across the street. Several hotels are interested and are preparing proposals, but Hotel Omni-Severin has made moves to build a new parking garage in the area and currently uses the parking area under Pan Am Plaza, and it's speculated that it's the hotel most likely to build there. This hotel is a necessity, and almost certainly will happen within just a couple few years, but it's all speculation at this point.

New Courts/City County Building. This is the project that the city has been putting off for a decade. It's a given that it will happen... it has to happen... seeing as the current City County building has reached maximum capacity and is a dangerous place to be because of the courts and hardened criminals in shackles that have to take the same elevators as the secretaries... Problem is, no one wants to fund it... Unfortunately, this likely won't happen until someone or some people die horribly at the hands of a desperate prisoner. This is inevitable, everyone knows it, and it's despicable that the city has taken so long to take action. This will likely be at least a 30 story, possibly much taller, and will be across Washington street from the City County Building in the current Marion County jail parking lot. The Current City County Building won't be torn down.

Did I miss anything? Probably. Indy is BOOMING. With our new billion dollar airport terminal and the billion dollar downtown retractable roof stadium/convention center things are just starting to heat up. Residential downtown is defying all growth predictions and is picking up steam as well. Look for new projects announced soon... Especially the 4-6 billion dollar light rail initiative... Yes, Indy should have good rail public transportation by 2012. This is far more signifigant than a dozen tall skyscrapers.

Aren't I just the little cheerleader....

I'd never heard that area on the East Side called "The Swamp!" How interesting... do you know why it's called as such?

And I totally agree with you about Mars Hill. Ick.

And as far as the area between 38th Street and downtown, there are some GREAT areas, like Herron-Morton, Fall Creek Place, etc.--I just think it appears undesirable because there are still quite a few vacant lots scattered about, and a few areas that are questionable (Washington Blvd. and Central Ave., from Fall Creek north to 30th St. or so). Lots of people wandering the streets aimlessly... probably nothing to be horrified of, but not the most inviting place. However you are quite correct in saying that the area has come a LONG way since 1990 when it was, I believe, the area with the highest violent crime rates in the entire city. This is sometimes hard for an outsider to see, though.

[QUOTE=jacerw99]
...As far as the Eastside, people don’t know much about it because it’s probably the most unremarkable area of the city. Probably the most decayed part of the city—lots of economic issues, and not much new development. There are some gems to be found in neighborhoods like Holy Cross, Cottage Home, and Woodruff Place...
[\QUOTE]

are you talking about only in Central Twnshp or Warren Twnshp too?

[QUOTE=jacerw99]
...As far as the Eastside, people don’t know much about it because it’s probably the most unremarkable area of the city. Probably the most decayed part of the city—lots of economic issues, and not much new development. There are some gems to be found in neighborhoods like Holy Cross, Cottage Home, and Woodruff Place...
[\QUOTE]

are you talking about only in Central Twnshp or Warren Twnshp too?


I was talking about Center Township.

Well, Indy's eastside has two gems that go relatively unnoticed. Cumberland (already mentioned) but Irvington is the other. Both were completely seperate from Indy when settled, yet absorbed by UniGov in 1969. However, Cumberand is 2 town's in one, in that is is it's own bird in Hancock Co without any say from Indy. Irvington is completing what Cumberland just completed, and that is a local historic designation. Sure, there is some "roughness" around bouth of these town's, but things are only going to get better now with the IHPC involved.

As for Cumberland's Hancock Co portion...most don't know that Cumberland is Indiana's 2nd wealthiest community behind Carmel. The reason for this is because Marion County Cumberland is counted in the "balance" of all Indianapolis census data, where the Hancock Co side is "Cumberland" per the Census. Therefore, we have a very high per capita income and the average home price is near $200,000. All of this on the "l"east side, can you believe it?

Mars Hill, Southside. Mostly white trash Crystal Meth heaven. Probably the worst place in Indy. I can't find a single positive thing to say about it.
Yup, 100% agreed.


Brightwood, Eastside. All around high crime and street gang hellhole. Some neighborhood effort to improve the situation.
Don't know much about Brightwood, other than the economic situation is bad there. I haven't been to that part of town.


The Swamp, (near) Eastside. Highly racially mixed, drug infested, high violent crime hellhole. I grew up there. it's been called the "Hard Luck, Hard Man" side of town. The area of blight is getting smaller as downtown expands east and rehab efforts are reclaiming the historic areas. Little Flower and Irvington to the East of the Swamp are going through a much deserved resurgence, also positively affecting the area.
Irvington has some beautiful residential streets with large houses, as well as one story brick homes (which I love). The commercial street on Washington is decent.

BTW - Is the Swamp basically 10th between Irvington and Woodruff Place?


Haughville, Westside. Not all of this historic working class neighborhood is bad, but the bad parts are REALLY bad. There are places that you aren't safe at any time, day or night. Strong community spirit in this area and much reason for hope.
Some parts are bad, I wouldn't call the area on Tenth and Michigan too bad. Haughville seems more raciallly intergrate (from what I've seen).


38th street area, Northside. See above
Agreed, it improves greatly once you get past 38th Street. I can't even imagine how great (and dense) this area was before the 1950's, it's a perfect example of how poor urban renewal and white flight can hurt a neighborhood.

Although this is considered Indy's "ghetto", there's two things definately worth checking out: the Children's Museum (no matter what age you are, it's fascinating) and Crown Hill Cemetary (beautiful views of the city from Riley's tomb).


Beech Grove, Southside. Technically it's own city with it's own mayor etc. but is entirely within Indy city limits. It used to be a nice area, but historically has been a white, segregated working class area with a strong reputation for racism. At one point it was illegal to eat fried chicken and watermelon in Beech Grove park in a mindbogglingly ludicrous attempt to keep black people out. Within the last decade or two, a lot of Railroad and automotive jobs have been lost, causing established families to sell... to anyone... This has caused massive white flight, and Beech Grove is now a racially mixed economically depressed area. This assessment may be controversial.
I've only been to Beech Grove once, it felt white-trashy to say the least (parts of the southside have that feeling, especially with tacky lawn shit and shotgun houses).


Spotty areas in and around Lawrence, Northeastside. Most of Lawrence is fine, but not all... The longterm negative effects of sprawl reveal themselves in some pretty depressing ways. This is an area that has financially stable white people and very poor blacks living in close proximity. Racial tensions are high and have been for quite a while. This combined with the closure and reorganization of Fort Benjamin Harrison have devastated some parts of this area. Fort Ben isn't really in Lawrence, but for some reason, a disproportionate percentage of people in Lawrence worked at Fort Bennie. Property values are down, and undesirables are taking over... I see Lawrence getting worse in coming decades. Lawrence is also technically it's own city with it's own government totally inside Indy city limits.
I've only been to Lawrence once, the area on Shadeland isn't too attractive.


Perhaps some other Indy people can review the other bad neighborhoods. I didn't get to Ravenswood, and Fountain Square is pretty complex and hard to explain to an outsider, but certainly is important ... I love (some of) that area.
Fountain Square feels a little like Mars Hill, but it's definatly coming back, and becoming more of young/yuppie area. It seems like a mix of Mars Hill,Mass Ave, and other southside neighborhoods (if that makes sense).

As for other bad areas, the area around 38th Street and Lafayette Road is considered a bad area (Lafayette Square Mall), it's even more depressing since the area has zero potential since it's basically a decayed suburb. Keep in mind, Indy doesn't have inner-ring burbs since the city limits are so huge. I would consider the area around Lafayette to feel like an inner ring burb, as well as townships outside of Central and Washington (maybe parts of Warren).

Speedway is more urban and gritty than Beech Grove, particually around 16th street. Oh yeah, if you're on the westside, you have to get a doughnut at Longs Bakery (basically 16th and Tremont, pretty close to the Speedway). It makes Krispy Kreme taste like shit, they're unbelievably good.

Speedway seemed a bit redneck to me.

Irvington is a hidden gem..some really neat old houses there.

Wasnt this an eary streetcar or railroad suburb.

now we can see, through words, why the far-north, -northwest, -northeast sides and suburbs are HOT! a girl i went to high school w/ who i think grew up around the devington area (north of 46th & west of arlington - the nice neighborhoods) now lives in carmel...i guess the fact that she's a Dr. now has something to do with it too - $$$ :)

given that people live in some of the gritty areas, is there any hope for a revival in any of the neighborhoods? as i understand it, part of fall creek places' success was b/c most of the houses were vacant? any other neighborhoods in that situation?
also, has anyone heard a post-report from the neighborhood mtg re: the proposed housing development near IMA/Crown Hill (i forget the name of the 'hood but i think the meeting with the developer was earlier this month)?

i have hope for Lafayette Square; i see it as a great planning opp w/ community participation. if they would take a risk and think non-suburban mall they could tear down one of the vacant blocks/anchors & do something... How close would the propsed NW transit line come to the area?

..

LRT huh? That would be really cool! How likely is it that Indy will get it and how extensive would it be? Here in Milwaukee there has been talk of it for many years, but it has gone nowhere very fast, as too many people here seem opposed to the idea and cost. SAD! I was in St Louis for the first time last year and saw their Metrolink and thought it was really cool how it extended all the way from their airport through downtown and 20 miles into the eastern suburbs in Illinois. They are even expanding theirs with completion due shortly and we can't get anywhere here in Milwaukee. Good luck to Indy at least, if we can't get our own.

I also read about some sort of tram or people mover downtown from a couple hotels to the convention center or some sort. What is this like and where exactly does it go? Does anybody have any pics?

I also read about some sort of tram or people mover downtown from a couple hotels to the convention center or some sort. What is this like and where exactly does it go? Does anybody have any pics?
It's the Clarian People Mover. Not technically a monorail, but most people call it "the monorail" anyway.... probably influenced by the Simpsons... . It connects several hospitals and the world renowned IU medical center, creating a supermega hospital and research center. It was designed to be a "vertical elevator" for doctors and patients and equipment and isn't intended to be used as public transportation for the general public. for that reason, the entrances from the street aren't user friendly really, you have to enter it through a hospital entrance.

But, It's free to ride for the public. It's likely that it will be expanded in the future, but it won't likely become part of the local public transportation system. It is and was totally financed with private funds.
http://www.on-track-on-line.com/trips/trip-2004-04-27-drew.shtml

LRT huh? That would be really cool! How likely is it that Indy will get it and how extensive would it be? Here in Milwaukee there has been talk of it for many years, but it has gone nowhere very fast, as too many people here seem opposed to the idea and cost. SAD! I was in St Louis for the first time last year and saw their Metrolink and thought it was really cool how it extended all the way from their airport through downtown and 20 miles into the eastern suburbs in Illinois. They are even expanding theirs with completion due shortly and we can't get anywhere here in Milwaukee. Good luck to Indy at least, if we can't get our own.
LRT is due to be introduced this spring. It will be (eventually) financed with federal funding. We don't know the official route, but we have some reliable inside information from someone on the planning committee who sometimes slips us a fact nugget or two.

That people mover thing has what looks like a station near the northern head of that canal, but it doesnt look like its open to the public or connects to any parking, which makes me wonder if there was some intention in the past to actually make this sort of a transit feature...they built what looks like a station, but never opened it.

That people mover thing has what looks like a station near the northern head of that canal, but it doesnt look like its open to the public or connects to any parking, which makes me wonder if there was some intention in the past to actually make this sort of a transit feature...they built what looks like a station, but never opened it.
You talk as if it's been around for awhile... the monorail itself went into service in July 2003. Infrastructure construction hasn't stopped.

the pic is a couple years old and construction was only about half through. The area around the canal station has been filled with mid rises and is a biotech lifesciences type research center thingamajig and is connected to the monorail. I don't think it's open yet.. I could be wrong. The plan is for all the area around the monorail route to continue to be filled with a biotech research campus of sorts. I think there are others here who know more about it.

This is what you're talking about, right?

http://www.kibi.org/monumental/2004_archive/2003_ma1.jpg

That station is now connected to wide 4 to 8 story buildings which would appear in the background if that pic wasn't a couple years old.

Don't get me started on the "People Mover." BUT, here goes anyway :)

The PeopleMover was approved with the exception that the public could use it. Since it located in the PUBLIC right-of-way, the public should have the right. Plus, the City saw this as an opportunity to "tast the waters" for a downtown system. When I was still on Staff with the City, the Clarian Lab at the north terminus of the canal was one of my cases. Well, the design integrated the building with the "station," but, the ground-level doors were to be locked. I threw a fit because that goes against the original approval of thepublic getting to use it. I was told that the public could still uses it, it's just that they would have to go through the building to do so. Well, I argued that no one would go into the lab and thus no public would ever use. THEN I find out that the only way you can get into the building is with a Clarian ID. So, you can imagine the "fit" that came next. Anyway, I was told from the "man upstairs" to approve it.

My other gripe with that project is the HORRIBLE parking garage occupying the first few floors. I argued that since this was the "start" of the Canal, that this area is used by a lot of pedestrians. So, the street-level portion of the new building needed to have a much better design standard, or that they should look at some sort of opportunity for a cafe or "b-shop." At a minimum, they should dress it up to look like storefronts, even if it was to be a garage. Again, "Approve it." So, that is my gripe.

The City has had talks with Lilly to possibly do something similar and provide a connection to the Clarian portion that would create a downtown loop. It may happen one day.

As for the LTR, this spring. The mayor is going to push this soon. Mayor Peterson believes that Indy MUST have some sort of mass transit. He is responsible for the airport finally taking off as well as the new stadium. I see him being successful with this too.

Don't get me started on the "People Mover." BUT, here goes anyway :)

The PeopleMover was approved with the exception that the public could use it. Since it located in the PUBLIC right-of-way, the public should have the right. Plus, the City saw this as an opportunity to "tast the waters" for a downtown system. When I was still on Staff with the City, the Clarian Lab at the north terminus of the canal was one of my cases. Well, the design integrated the building with the "station," but, the ground-level doors were to be locked. I threw a fit because that goes against the original approval of thepublic getting to use it. I was told that the public could still uses it, it's just that they would have to go through the building to do so. Well, I argued that no one would go into the lab and thus no public would ever use. THEN I find out that the only way you can get into the building is with a Clarian ID. So, you can imagine the "fit" that came next. Anyway, I was told from the "man upstairs" to approve it.

My other gripe with that project is the HORRIBLE parking garage occupying the first few floors. I argued that since this was the "start" of the Canal, that this area is used by a lot of pedestrians. So, the street-level portion of the new building needed to have a much better design standard, or that they should look at some sort of opportunity for a cafe or "b-shop." At a minimum, they should dress it up to look like storefronts, even if it was to be a garage. Again, "Approve it." So, that is my gripe.

The City has had talks with Lilly to possibly do something similar and provide a connection to the Clarian portion that would create a downtown loop. It may happen one day.

As for the LTR, this spring. The mayor is going to push this soon. Mayor Peterson believes that Indy MUST have some sort of mass transit. He is responsible for the airport finally taking off as well as the new stadium. I see him being successful with this too.
The Clarian/Riley/Lilly/IU medcenter etc. Borg is so powerful, I'm not surprised for an instant that they got their way, good urban planning be damned.

Is Anderson, IN considered a suburb of Indy or part of the metro area? It looks like a pretty good size city as does Columbus, IN.

One other question about the 38th st corridor. It has been said that 38th St is the dividing line between nicer and not so, but how far east-west does this hold true? When one gets east or west of a certain point, do the well maintained area extend south of 38th st, and how far?

Aside from LRT, how is Indy's bus system? Does it provide good service and does it cover the suburbs and outer reaches of the city well?

Is Anderson, IN considered a suburb of Indy or part of the metro area? It looks like a pretty good size city as does Columbus, IN.

One other question about the 38th st corridor. It has been said that 38th St is the dividing line between nicer and not so, but how far east-west does this hold true? When one gets east or west of a certain point, do the well maintained area extend south of 38th st, and how far?

Aside from LRT, how is Indy's bus system? Does it provide good service and does it cover the suburbs and outer reaches of the city well?I don't think Anderson is considered by the federal government to be part of the Indianapolis metro. I'm sketchy about the facts, but I think it has something to do with allocation of federal funding. Anderson is hurting.. big time.. Maybe someone here can clear this up.

Indy has one of the worst public transportation systems for a city it's size in the world. Except for a couple express routes, it doesn't cover the outer areas of the city at all.

As for 38th street... You're talking about a large area there... I suppose one could sit down with a map and try to highlight the good and bad areas, but the end product would end up looking like a patchwork quilt.

You talk as if it's been around for awhile... the monorail itself went into service in July 2003. Infrastructure construction hasn't stopped.

the pic is a couple years old and construction was only about half through. The area around the canal station has been filled with mid rises and is a biotech lifesciences type research center thingamajig and is connected to the monorail. I don't think it's open yet.. I could be wrong. The plan is for all the area around the monorail route to continue to be filled with a biotech research campus of sorts. I think there are others here who know more about it.

This is what you're talking about, right?


Yeah thats it. I was in Indy for a concert, and spent some time exporing that new parkland/development around the canal (as well as visiting that great new State Museum), and saw that and thought it was going to be a station of some sort

That station must have been just completed as the buildings you mentioned wherent up yet.

I am from Anderson. GM factory city. Need I say more?

Actually, Anderson is a good-sized city with 60,000 ppl (though down from its high of nearly 80,000) and a metro of 130,000. In the 1990 census, Anderson was considered metro Indianapolis and still meets the requirements. However, as Moochie pointed-out, the City petitioned to receive its own desigantion to gain more fed $$.

Yes, Anderson has seen better days. It is the birthplace of the interurban, home to Indiana's first enclosed shopping mall, and has the second-largest gynamsium in the US.

The City is the most agressive in terms of economic development in Indiana and has one of the state's largest business incubators. It definitly has potential, especially in terms of location with regards to Metro Indy's growth pattern up I-69. Nearby towns like pendletona nd lapel are starting to get the sprawl that is pushing past Fishers. Anderson, with its availabilty of infrastructure and cheap taxs, is poised for a rebirth.

If I recall right Anderson has some small skyscrapers downtown, too.

given that people live in some of the gritty areas, is there any hope for a revival in any of the neighborhoods? as i understand it, part of fall creek places' success was b/c most of the houses were vacant? any other neighborhoods in that situation?

Brightwood was mentioned above as a severely blighted area. There is a development called "Martindale on the Monon" and its webpage states it as being in the Martindale-Brightwood Neighborhood. I'm sure what exactly delineates those neighborhoods. Interesting that the name Brightwood is left out of the development name, possibly because of the negative connotation that so many people on this thread seem to have about the area:

http://www.martindaleonthemonon.com/Pages/plan.htm

Anyway, I drove through the general area of this development -- 16th, Yandes, 17th, Columbia -- a couple weeks ago and it looks like what I imagine Fall Creek Place looked like (I didn't move here until 2002 when FCP was already well underway, so I'm not sure exactly what it looked like). LOTS of empty lots with the remainder being boarded up and barely livable houses. Honestly, it seems more uninhabited than anything. Certainly, this area's location on the Monon trail will help with future development moving north, especially with a seed project like this.

Does anybody know more precisely the boundaries of Brightwood?

I believe that Martindale-Brightwood is bound by Keystone, 38th, College, and I-70. I am thinking of buying in Phase 4 of FCP,which would put me in this 'hood.

Yes, Anderson has a "skyline," if you will. I think there are 3 towers at 10 stories, and a few other mid rises. From the north of downtown, just on the other side of White RIver, the City actually looks impressive, as the downtown is built on a hill.

I notice on the map for Martindale, that the city grid breaks up to the east and some curvy streets start up. Is this perhaps an old suburban area of some sort (sort of an Indy version of Riverside?)?

I notice on the map for Martindale, that the city grid breaks up to the east and some curvy streets start up. Is this perhaps an old suburban area of some sort (sort of an Indy version of Riverside?)?
Actually those were old Indian trails that were established before the City annexed that area 100 or so years ago.

I believe that Martindale-Brightwood is bound by Keystone, 38th, College, and I-70. I am thinking of buying in Phase 4 of FCP,which would put me in this 'hood.

So this really puts Martindale on the Monon right in the extreme SW corner of the neighborhood. I guess that makes sense -- start as close as you can to downtown and near the already revitalized neighborhoods like the Old Northside and Herron-Morton. I looked through some history on Martindale-Brightwood and the Martindale half of the name comes from the neighborhood that built up around Martindale Ave. I tried to find Martindale Ave. on a map and it turns out that it has been renamed Dr. Andrew J. Brown Ave. Martindale (on the west) and Brightwood (on the east) were orignally separate communities -- and not part of the city of Indy itself -- but grew so much in the late 1800's that the boundary between them became blurred.

Let's hope the revitalization goes as well in this neighborhood as it did in Fall Creek Place.

ctually those were old Indian trails that were established before the City annexed that area 100 or so years ago.

lol..seriously, was that area like an older suburb at one time?

Actually this was a fairly interesting thread for someone like me who has just a cursory knowlege of the city.

Are there any good books on the urban history or historical growth of Indianapolis any of you would recommend?

^ Not that I know of, the only thing I can think of is the Encyclopedia of Indianapolis. It's a good book (about 10 years old) and it explores subjects fairly in dept, my biggest complaint is the book doesn't focus on the present day as much (especially with neighborhoods, it usually ends in the 1960s). There are some good history pictorials, Indianapolis Then and Now is my favorite.

^ Not that I know of, the only thing I can think of is the Encyclopedia of Indianapolis. It's a good book (about 10 years old) and it explores subjects fairly in dept, my biggest complaint is the book doesn't focus on the present day as much (especially with neighborhoods, it usually ends in the 1960s). There are some good history pictorials, Indianapolis Then and Now is my favorite.

Oh yeah, Indianapolis Then and Now is great, with the side-by-side pictures comparing the city landmarks and intersections 100 years ago to now. Lost Indianapolis is pretty interesting too, although it takes a melancholic approach to history -- not really my cup of tea. One time I spent like an hour flipping through Indianapolis history books at Barnes and Noble. Encyclopedia of Indianapolis was wrapped up, so I couldn't even flip through it to know what it was like and the cost was a little prohibitive to buy just for fun.

There was also one book called Living in Downtown Indy that was surprisingly insiteful about where to live, where to go and what to do as well as prospects for future growth in certain areas of downtown (they're particularly bullish about upper canal). It was published in 2004, so it's still fairly up-to-date.

How walkable is Indy outside of downtown? Do all neighborhoods and all areas of the city have sidewalks, or only the older or closer in parts of the city? Does Indy have any sort of restrictions or requirements for new subdivisions built for the developers to install sidewalks or does the city hanle that? What about the suburbs such as Carmel, Greenwood, Avon?

Also, while on a public works type topic, do all areas of the city have uniform street lighting (type, amount, spacing) or are more outskirt neighborhoods (Traders Point, far south side on Greenwood border) darker or more poorly lit than areas closer to downtown? Are the alleys lit well?

How walkable is Indy outside of downtown? Do all neighborhoods and all areas of the city have sidewalks, or only the older or closer in parts of the city? Does Indy have any sort of restrictions or requirements for new subdivisions built for the developers to install sidewalks or does the city hanle that? What about the suburbs such as Carmel, Greenwood, Avon?

Also, while on a public works type topic, do all areas of the city have uniform street lighting (type, amount, spacing) or are more outskirt neighborhoods (Traders Point, far south side on Greenwood border) darker or more poorly lit than areas closer to downtown? Are the alleys lit well?

Personal experience:

Except for isolated areas such as Broad Ripple, Fountain Square and the Butler University area, Indianapolis is not particularly walkable outside of downtown. Not to say that you can't walk -- there are sidewalks everywhere that can be especially nice, such as northside neighborhoods like Meridian-Kessler -- but they don't really take you to anything. Great for walking the dog, not much else. I'm not as familiar with outskirt areas but I would say that, in general, there are sidewalks everywhere in Indianapolis.

^^^Actually there are suburban areas of the city in which sidewalks are non existent, like down in Perry Township or Franklin Township. In the central city, though, youre right, sidewalks are pretty accessible.

Marion County's Subdivision Control ordinance requires sidewalks for all new subdivisions. The only way that developers can have this waived is if they are constructing a pedestrian path. Indy has sidewalk just about everywhere. This is one thing I noticed about Nashville the first few times I went there...the lack of sidewalks outside of downtown.

Anyway, metro Indy is very pro-sidewalk/pedestrian path. with the huge success of the Monon Trail and Canal, every suburb (including my Town of Cumberland) is hell-bent on connectivity. We will start the Pennsy Trail this time next year here, which will ink to Indy's portion in 2008 and tie into the metro's connectivity plan. They guy behind Indy's trails, Ray Irvin, has been hired by the State to develop a state-wide connectivity plan.

That's cool! I wish the Milwaukee metro area was more pro sidewalk. The city of Milwaukee itself has sidewalks on about 90% of its streets, with the exception of a few areas on the far North and Northwest sides along with a handful of streets I have seen on the far South side (27th & College/Ramsey area). The suburbs here are a completely different story though. With a few exceptions such as Waukesha, Pewaukee, Oconomowoc, Greendale and Racine, sidewalks in our metro are very far and few between, and when you do encounter them, they often don't go very far and usually end abruptly nowhere! Even the Madison area seems to be much more walkable than Milwaukee. This is one of the first things I noticed here also, after moving from the Chicago suburbs where sidewalks seem to be much more prevalent in just about every suburb there, even if they don't even always lead to anywhere in particular. For God's sakes, I noticed a sidewalk recently on IL 56 (Butterfield Rd) going west several miles from Naperville Rd in the Wheaton/Warrenville area. I think that is how it should be, but you would never see that on a similar type road here in Wisconsin!