I'm eager to hear more about Balti Ekspress. Did you happen to visit the restaurant car? How was it? :)
I did visit it. The staff was Russian-speaking, no English understood. They served just two soups or something like that - maybe I was late, I don't know. And a few alcoholic beverages were served as well.

I also agree that the possible day connections would be too slow. Only the night trip would give some significant advantages over coaches. The train should start from Tallinn early enough to be able to pick some passengers from Riga before midnight and it would arrive in Warsaw next day morning.
And in reverse direction, from Warsaw it should start late enough to be in Riga around 6AM, not earlier.

The most important and most problematic issue is the question of price for such a trip. If the tickets were sold cheaply enough, the train would be filled with passengers sufficiently, I believe, but without some financial support the profitability could be not enough to keep trains going. Sponsors, anybody?

I did visit it. The staff was Russian-speaking, no English understood. They served just two soups or something like that - maybe I was late, I don't know. And a few alcoholic beverages were served as well.

I also agree that the possible day connections would be too slow. Only the night trip would give some significant advantages over coaches. The train should start from Tallinn early enough to be able to pick some passengers from Riga before midnight and it would arrive in Warsaw next day morning.
And in reverse direction, from Warsaw it should start late enough to be in Riga around 6AM, not earlier.

The most important and most problematic issue is the question of price for such a trip. If the tickets were sold cheaply enough, the train would be filled with passengers sufficiently, I believe, but without some financial support the profitability could be not enough to keep trains going. Sponsors, anybody?

Was there any escort ladies in the Balti Ekspress? Or massager?

Was there any escort ladies in the Balti Ekspress? Or massager?I took my wife on that trip ;)

I have taken Baltii Ekspress in 90's from Tallinn to Krakow. I don't remember exact year but I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to book tickets all the way from Tallinn to Krakow (with 2 transfers). It was an evening couch train with bright pink but comfortable seating and VERY Russian stile dining-buffet car. Besides stoping in Riga & Kaunas and more numerous stops along the way, we had to switch trains at NIGHT in Sestokai (LT-PL) border. It was a surprise to know that we had to get off Estonian train and get on to Polish PKP. Luckily the polish train was already awaiting for us and the transfer went smoothly (considering it was a deep night , 10 below zero in January and 3 suitcases to manage). And finely some crazy 8 hrs. later we were in Warsaw Central station were we continued our journey to the magnificent Krakow. ( if I'll look I might find some Sestokai transfer station photos)

All in all I DO remember this exotic trip Helsinki-Tallinn-Warsaw-Klakow. The Baltii train was OK, Russian babushkas didn't bother me since we didn't have an honer to dine in the "dining car". It was quite ride trough the Baltics except the border crossings and endless passport checks every few hours. One can not get any sleep what so ever even in a Huge Pink Seat. So on the comfort level it was not very satisfactory.

To my opinion this rout has so much potential now, that there are no borders and the train sets could be upgraded up to date. What comes to the $ and € it's all about the service of the train - good schedules (no midnight train to train hopping), good Bar-Car and some modern approach (wi-fi , maybe rent-a-movie or even showers) and this Pan-Baltic could be a huge hit. Let's face it - not everybody likes to fly or rumble on the tight bus couch for 10 hours. So my hopes are very Hi on this line and I can wait to do it again but this time on an European train- overnight would be preferred.

The problem is that if the train isn't faster than the bus, it's very difficult to compete with it. You can get from Tallinn to Warsaw on a bus with € 25. Since infrastructure fees for trains are quite high, there's no way a train ticket could be that cheap.

Latvian passenger trains procurement on hold,Latvia could lose EU funding for new trains.

Latvian government has put Pasažieru Vilciens train tender (won by CAF) on hold,until Stadler Rail's complaints over biased procurement process could be sorted out. This puts whole tender in risk of losing EU co-funding (and being cancelled).
...The move will most likely cost the government LVL 100 million from the Cohesion Fund...
...halting the Passenger Train procurement seems to be risky and little thought-over, because that way the country could lose EU funds allocated to modernization of passenger trains...
Source: http://bnn-news.com/government-halt-trains-procurement-41813


What the hell? Is this true?

[B][SIZE="3"]

What the hell? Is this true?

It is related to Krajbanka case. Government has suspicions that Vladimir Antonov is the main owner of RVR through Cyprus off-shore "Mysea Enterprises Limited". RVR is pledged in Krājbanka.

Latvian passenger trains procurement on hold,Latvia could lose EU funding for new trains.

Latvian government has put Pasažieru Vilciens train tender (won by CAF) on hold,until Stadler Rail's complaints over biased procurement process could be sorted out. This puts whole tender in risk of losing EU co-funding (and being cancelled).


Source: http://bnn-news.com/government-halt-trains-procurement-41813


What the hell? Is this true?

There is something strange happening at the government. There are different news every few days. It seems, that somebody is rely interested in halting this tender. There were news that new diesel trains will use 1.5 times more diesel fuel and electric trains won't be more economical than existing trains (it is obvious, that these news are telling lies). Nobody really knows how this halting will end, because there are people in government, who says, that these news are lies and that we need to speed up buying process, but other group says, that this offer from CAF is not the best, that we could get.

I think, that it is obvious that Stadler is organizing campaign against this tender.

^^ Well, several companies contested the results of the Estonian train tender too. It's fairly common for it to happen. That shouldn't be the reason not to receive EU funding.

^^
EU has time limits on what period money can be spent and if problems delay tender,then EU simply reallocates money. I hope this gets sorted out,otherwise Latvia will have to apply & wait for new EU funding (which can delay train purchase) or they will have to pay the full price themselves to get those trains.

Btw,what Rebasepoiss didn't mention,was the fact that in Estonia it was CAF who tried to derail Stadler Rail's contract. :D So it looks like those two companies have engaged in a bitter war in Baltics. It kinda makes sense,considering how big contracts are at stake...

There were news that new diesel trains will use 1.5 times more diesel fuel (it is obvious, that these news are telling lies).

I wouldn't be so sure. CAF diesel trains have engines under every traincar, opposite to only 1-2 in DR1B trainsets. Of course CAF diesels also have much better acceleration because of that.

http://bizness.delfi.lv/uznemumi/valdiba-lemumu-par-pasazieru-vilciena-iepirkumu-atkal-atliek-uz-nedelu.d?id=41943744
(sorry, that this page is in Latvian)
Another delay, this time for a week!

What's the status of Rail Baltica pertaining to a possible continuation onto St. Petersburg? Any such project or any similar one (non Rail Baltica) in the works?

The perspectives for a high-speed railway that could connect Warsaw to Europe's 3rd largest city (St. Petersburg) via the Baltic capitals are very great, much more so than just stopping at Tallinn.

Here is my prostitute adventures on a board of Berlin Tallin train
->

http://www.rbgc.eu/rail-baltica-stories/rail-baltica-2011.html


RBGC Russia Project Initiative Approved by the Commission

RBGC's sister Project Initiative RBGC Russia has been granted an award by EU Delegation for Russia

http://www.rbgc.eu/news/news2/rbgc-russia-project-initiative-approved-by-the-commission.html

Me and my buddies in commission agreed Russias part is to supply private dances into striptease & bar wagon. We will use same personel as in http://www.stpeterline.com/en/OnBoard/News.aspx

Best sluts are always from Russia :D

FYI. THE best sluts are from russia.. Err.. I mean St. Petersburg has a CO- project into RB. It is called RBGC Russia.

What's the status of Rail Baltica pertaining to a possible continuation onto St. Petersburg? Any such project or any similar one (non Rail Baltica) in the works?

The perspectives for a high-speed railway that could connect Warsaw to Europe's 3rd largest city (St. Petersburg) via the Baltic capitals are very great, much more so than just stopping at Tallinn.

Not so much, especially with Tallinn. The straightest railway Warsaw-St. Petersburg is long in place and goes via Grodno, Vilnius, Daugavpils and Pskov. Tallinn would be a detour.

I am quite sure that this RB sister project will come true. ST Petes is just too big to miss of passenger potential.

Here is some more links.

http://cemat.aalto.fi/en/research/metropolitan/railbaltica/news/

http://cemat.aalto.fi/fi/current/news/view/2011-10-31/

There are direct rail road links with Baltic capitals and Saint-Petersburg and I don't see the reason why someone would choose RB to get to this city. The only international project St. Petersburg can be interested in is improving connection with Finland and connecting it to russian high speed railroad network

Maybe one day there will be direct train Helsinki-Beijing or Helsinki-Berlin, who knows :dunno:

The only international project St. Petersburg can be interested in is improving connection with Finland and connecting it to russian high speed railroad network

Isn't that already done?

Maybe one day there will be direct train Helsinki-Beijing or Helsinki-Berlin, who knows :dunno:

There are now direct trains Warsaw-Peterburg. Should these be sped up and continued to Helsinki?

The only international project St. Petersburg can be interested in is improving connection with Finland and connecting it to russian high speed railroad networkIsn't that already done?
The partially new and partially upgraded route goes via Lahti, it's not as fast and not as direct as it could be. As far as I know, plans exist to build a more straightforward and speedy track from Helsinki via Porvoo and along the Baltic coast.
There are now direct trains Warsaw-Peterburg. Should these be sped up and continued to Helsinki?Don't think so. Too long and even if speeded up would be not fast enough to compete with air travel. Besides, passengers would be required to get visas while travelling between EU states (via St. Petersburg).

Isn't that already done?

For example make a single ticket if you want to get to Moscow from Helsinki and solve other issues, e.g. trains from Helsinki arrives to Finlandskiy railway station, whereas trains to Moscow departure from Moskovskiy railway station.

^^ I agree that Lelle-Pärnu line will probably have to be shut down. Nobody uses this train to get from Tallinn to Pärnu anyway. The train only goes twice a day and takes an hour longer than the bus. Maybe it's viable to use the current line as a regional line to get to Tallinn-Lelle-Viljandi line or to Pärnu.

Don't forget regional benfits. People from Kohila and Rapla + other living near existing line will have direct connection with Pärnu and even Riga + more. This is very important in case making little places not loose population.

But Tallinn-Lelle-Viljandi is the most popular intercity train service in Estonia. I don't see how building a new 1435mm line vaguely next to it should affect it.

Yes it is most popular and this is the reason why it should be maid even better. Lot's of taxpayers will benefit. Tallinn - Rapla - Türi line will need renewal in near future aniway. And there are other problems with existing line. As we all know new local trains cruising in Europe go also 160km/h or even more. The alignment of existing line doesn't support more than 100km/h in quite lot of curves. As we all know most Europe uses regular interval timetables. It means that introducing regular interval has been success. Current line doesn´t allow to introduce it. The existing line needs to have renewal works aniway. If to rebuild exiting line for RB then all will benefit, local + international + enterprises.

And nobody will convert the new trains to 1435mm, that would be an absolute nonsene. Besides, the loading gauge is also different. "Our" Stadler trains will be 62 cm wider than their Western/Central European counterparts.
As I said before there is no need for conversion.

I mean. What you're suggesting here is that instead of building a new HS line, we should rip up a completely functional railway line, change the alignment and rebuild it as a 1435mm line. That would also require some of our new trains to be converted or new trains should be bought instead. Seems a bit wasteful if you ask me.

No, what I suggest is to turn not so fine functional railway into state of art railway. At moment it carries indeed quite of lot's people. But there is a huge potential. Look at the timetable at moment. It isn't possible to use fast train to go to work to Tallinn. But the fast train is the alternative for cars. Locals are too slow. Have you tried to give a fast train from Tallinn at 16:something then local at 17:something then fast 17:something then local 18:something + trains in opposite direction at reasonable times as well? Not possible on existing infra. So if to bring RB at existing alignment between Tallinn - Rapla then there will be state of art win-win project.

And the new trains, there is always a solution. Thinking like we can't do this we can't to that is brake. Europe is full of 1435 stock if there is no will to buy new ones. Just open eyes. Or if RB will be 1524 then new trains can be used.

The route of Rail Baltic was drawn as far away from settlements as possible(unless the HS train stops there). One of the reasons for that is the plan to run freight trains at night. I don't think the people of Saku, Kohila, Hagudi, Rapla, Lelle and Sindi would be too happy about that. If you look at the Tallinn-Tartu-Valga-Riga option, it also featured a brand new line from Tallinn to Tartu, roughly following the Tallinn-Tartu highway. It's a lot cheaper and easier to build a new HS line than to adapt an old line to HS running. Just look at motorways, to bring an example of this principle.

Railways have maid huge step in development. The modern freight train makes less noise than truck on Tallinn - Viljandi or Tallinn - Pärnu road. Have you been near Lötchenberg or Gotthard line, I have and I barely can hear a freight from house next to the line.

And about adapting old line. It's lot's of simpler in case of Talinn - Rapla as it was for most lines in Europe. Read putting germany back together. Berlin - Hamburg(rebuilt for 230km/h), Belin - Leipzig(rebuilt for 200km/h, these routes see freight as well). Or:
Stockholm - Malmö(rebuilt partly for 250km/h also big freight traffic)
Helsinki - Turku
Seinäjoki - Oulu (ongoing modernisation for 200km/h)
Gdynia - Warszawa(ongoing modernisation for 200 or even 250km/h)
or lot's more around europe.
By the way from Liiva to Rapla 250km/h on existing alignment is possible so that almost no single house must be demolished.

For example make a single ticket if you want to get to Moscow from Helsinki and solve other issues, e.g. trains from Helsinki arrives to Finlandskiy railway station, whereas trains to Moscow departure from Moskovskiy railway station.

There IS a single ticket now. Overnight train Tolstoi.

The problem is that it is slow. Tolstoi takes 6:16 to travel from Helsinki to St. Petersburg Ladoga station, then 6:46 to Moscow. 13.02 combined

Allegro manages Helsinki to St. Petersburg Finland station in 3:36.

How about building high speed sleeper train which travels Helsinki to St. Petersburg in 3:36 (like Allegro), goes through St. Petersburg and continues to Moscow in less than 4:00 (like Sapsan)? Under 8 hours could be a convenient overnight train....

What attitudes? Reasonable calculating and analyzing instead of just simple "vow, this is cool, we must build it"?

Dont get me wrong, Im also up for RailBaltica. But if the ticket price will be more then per 50% higher than by bus or airplane, I doubt I will use it... And Gatis has the point, you like it or not.

Completely out of place Rebasepoiss "argument" about our roads. Because in last time we are building them a lot and they are essentially needed infrastructure while Rail Baltica is rather a luxury (although a tempting luxury, of course).

Somebody should explain Baltic people to see that roads aren't cheap at all. Count all money and external costs of roads and you see that road's are subsided.

What I was referring to is Gatis' argument that we'd have to pay for the maintenance of Rail Baltic. Well, we also have to pay for the maintenance of roads and streets but that everybody takes for granted. For some unbeknown reason, in the eyes of the public, railways have to profitable financially, not taking into account the external benefits(which Gatis knows for sure are just as important). Highways bring no direct financial benefits, yet everybody is still in favour of building them.

Just to bring an example, Estonia is on the verge of starting a € 200 million PPP project for building a 45km stretch of 2x2 Tallinn-Tartu highway. That's € 4.45 million per km or roughly the same as the Estonian stretch of Rail Baltic... And how much direct profit will that 45km of highway start producing a year when it's ready? €0.00

The price of airplane tickets will most probably start rising pretty soon if the EU manages to tax airplane companies based on CO2 emissions.

:applause: 5+

And the new trains, there is always a solution. Thinking like we can't do this we can't to that is brake. Europe is full of 1435 stock if there is no will to buy new ones. Just open eyes. Or if RB will be 1524 then new trains can be used.


I agree with you, it makes good sense to upgrade and convert the VIljandi line to 1435 and integrate it with RB.

As for the new 1520 trains, dont forget that the lines Tln-Tartu-Valga/Koidula, Tln -Narva, Tln-Paldiski/Riispere will all stay as 1520 gauge and the new trains are more than useful to improve the service frequency on those lines.

If one goes to Tallinn Bus station, it is shocking to see how many buses are going between Tallinn and Tartu, there is a departure every 15 min, sometimes more than one bus at the same time! People prefer buses even tho they are more expensive than trains. This shows how big is the potential for proper train connection between the cities.

And Narva line, well, is there any train service at the time being? The 1 (or 2?) train per day is just a joke. Yet, Narva & Jõhvi area is the second most populated area in Estonia.

Looking at this video: http://youtu.be/8XtBaWP3m9Q , I'm not so convinced that rebuilding the existing Tallinn-Rapla-Lelle-Pärnu line to a 240km/h 1435mm Rail Baltic is as cheap and easy as you guys think it is.

BTW, here are some photos of a recent article in EPL about the reconstruction of Rapla-Tallinn line: http://nagi.ee/photos/sosku/19879109/ As you can see, this line needs repairs ASAP so we'd have to spend money on this railway anyway. What's more, they are also planning to add extra tracks in Hagudi and Männiku stations and make the Liiva-Männiku stretch a double track railway to increase frequencies.

What's more, they are also planning to add extra tracks in Hagudi and Männiku stations and make the Liiva-Männiku stretch a double track railway to increase frequencies.

What? Where did you heard that?

^^ Read the article ;)

^^ Read the article ;)

Oh. And I already thought it was smth serious :D I'm rather sceptical about Edelaraudtee's promises. They usually upgrade at last resort and even when they do it,it's "we wanted the best,but it came out like ..."-stuff. Viljandi line reconstruction is perfect example.

^^ That's true :D

There IS a single ticket now. Overnight train Tolstoi.

I know, but it is not high speed train. I heard about plans to make a single ticket and convenient timetable, so that someone arriving to St-Petersburg by Allegro can take a shuttle bus to to Moskovsky railway station and continue traveling by Sapsan.
Also maybe one day (world cup 2018?) a completely new high speed line will be built between Moscow and St-Petersburg with speed up to 400km/h, it will make traveling to Moscow much faster

I know, but it is not high speed train. I heard about plans to make a single ticket and convenient timetable, so that someone arriving to St-Petersburg by Allegro can take a shuttle bus to to Moskovsky railway station and continue traveling by Sapsan.


Still 3 vehicles - train, change to bus, change to train. Not a train going to same station and walking across platform to second train, let alone same train all the way and passengers staying aboard.

Looking at this video: http://youtu.be/8XtBaWP3m9Q , I'm not so convinced that rebuilding the existing Tallinn-Rapla-Lelle-Pärnu line to a 240km/h 1435mm Rail Baltic is as cheap and easy as you guys think it is.


Really nice video, thanks! Average speed in the vid 760km/h, could be the future? :D

I'll post this here also:
Eesti 2030+ plan: two railways to Pärnu and restored Riisipere-Haapsalu railway.

It has been revealed that Eesti 2030+ national development plan foresees keeping & rebuilding old Tallinn-Pärnu railway. Plan suggests that Tallinn-Pärnu line will be upgraded to 160km/h speeds before 1435mm gauge Rail Baltica is built & becomes operational (around 2020). This means that in the future there will be two railways to Pärnu - 1520mm gauge local railway & 1435mm Rail Baltica. Both railways will have separate routes,but on some places meet each other.

Also,Riisipere-Haapsalu lines proposed reconstruction in marked in Eesti 2030+ plan. Line will be built on maximum lenght - all the way to Rohuküla (1 additional stop AFTER Haapsalu town),but it will also have low maximum speed limit - just 120km/h.

Source: http://www.postimees.ee/664824/eesti-2030-tallinnast-parnusse-hakkaks-viima-nii-uus-kui-vana-raudtee/

in the future there will be two railways to Pärnu - 1520mm gauge local railway & 1435mm Rail Baltica. Both railways will have separate routes, but on some places meet each other. Why not dual gauge, like here (Finland/Sweden)?

http://cdn9.wn.com/pd/5b/fb/afc9c18bfdc13ecb2b90b935b5d5_grande.jpg

^^
I think some sections where two railways meet each other,will be dual guage (that option is even stated in AECOM study) ,but for most of the lenght two railways have just too different routes.
Second local railway (current existing Pärnu line) is needed to service villages & boroughs along the route. If this would be dismantled,then lot of people would lose transportation and on the other hand,Rail Baltica can't follow existing railway on entire lenght,as it isn't possible to upgrade current tracks to 240km/h speeds.

A bit offtopic, new train Moscow-Berlin-Paris has been launched recently

Tickets from 165 to 1050 euro.

http://img.beta.rian.ru/images/51493/50/514935091.jpg
http://sdelanounas.ru/images/img/press.rzd.ru/x400_dbmm_images_9_5250_38215.jpeg
http://sdelanounas.ru/images/img/press.rzd.ru/x400_dbmm_images_9_5250_38216.jpeg
http://sdelanounas.ru/images/img/press.rzd.ru/x400_dbmm_images_9_5250_38217.jpeg

do they need to change cars on blr-pl border or passangers can stay on board?

do they need to change cars on blr-pl border or passangers can stay on board?

They don't change cars

Should Nord Express travel on Rail Baltica?

do they need to change cars on blr-pl border or passangers can stay on board?They don't change cars
More details here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUW_2000).

A bit offtopic, new train Moscow-Berlin-Paris has been launched recently

Tickets from 165 to 1050 euro.


I heard that from Jan / Feb 2012 the tickets will be sold in Poland too and passengers will be able to get into train in Waszawa and Poznań.

The last agreements between Russian and Polish railways are undertaken about tickets price and passengers boarding in Poland.

Poznań - Paris trip should last smth. about 17 hours :-).

I wonder what will be the cost of Poznań - Paris ticket ?


http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/foto_news_opis/29419/485bdc4e45ec76f08b49cd0d032e00de_d.jpg

Lux suits have personal shower and WC, won't be cheaper than airline tickets anyway

Lux suits have personal shower and WC, won't be cheaper than airline tickets anyway

Won't be cheaper??? It is a lot me expensive than flying, so if they want to be competitive they REALLY need to provide some extra quality to make up the enormous amount of time that is consumed for the trip.

Won't be cheaper??? It is a lot me expensive than flying, so if they want to be competitive they REALLY need to provide some extra quality to make up the enormous amount of time that is consumed for the trip.

Time isn't everything.
http://photo.metroblog.ru/lj/104_2011-09-09/expo_1520_39.jpg
http://photo.metroblog.ru/lj/104_2011-09-09/expo_1520_40.jpg
http://photo.metroblog.ru/lj/104_2011-09-09/expo_1520_41.jpg

The schedule seems a bit stupid to me. I think it would be more comfortable for the passengers if it travelled for 2 nights and 1 day, rather than for 2 days and 1 night.
I guess that would raise the price even more, though, with the extra night shifts and all :D

17 hours can't be 2 days 1 night.

17 hours can't be 2 days 1 night.

Yes, but 38 hours can.

Does anyone know exactly how long that new Russian train takes Paris-Warszaw? And what would the trip time be Paris-Warszaw-Tallinn?

In Latvia- >Additional funding to be allocated to "Rail Baltica" project



Today, the Cabinet of Ministers supported the Transport Ministry's request to allot additional LVL 2.5 million funding for the renovation of a railroad track included in the high-speed railroad project "Rail Baltica".

The funding will come from the ministry's 2011 budget programs, subprograms, and codes of economic classification. Their funds will be redistributed.

The ministry informs that the project previously received LVL 746,378 co-funding from the European Union's TEN-T program. The second part - LVL 1.6 million - has been received as well, even sooner than expected. Therefore Latvia has received a total of LVL 2.35 million or 33.19 percent of TEN-T co-funding for the project.

RIGA, Dec 20 (NOZARE.LV).
Photo: Pilseta24.lv

http://balticexport.com/?article=pieskirs-papildu-lidzeklus-rail-baltica-projekta-realizacijai&lang=en

Is that the Moscow<->Berlin<->Paris train? If so, then it looks nice and HDTV to boot :)

I do have a question though:
How is the safety and security though especially on the Russian side? I ask that because there are concerns regarding safety and security due to terrorist incidents that have caused deaths over there in Russia (i.e. frequent Moscow Metro bombings and the Domododevo Airport bombing which imho was caused by POOR security protocols and POOR enforcement).

I don't think this a problem for the French and German areas where this train will travel but for the Russian side, I don't know about it.

Anyone care to comment???

Blackraven,

I'm going to Russia by train (from Latvia) every year. And I'm travelling by train inside Russia frequently. Judging by my experience, you should not worry about your safety at all, especially if you're taking such fancy train like this one. I personally have not had any incidents at all, and have never been a witness to such. Trains are very popular in Russia, and the long-distance trains (operated by Russian Railways) are becoming more and more comfy over recent years - they are clean, have TVs inside, a decent service and temperature control.

Russian trains are OK, but the interesting think I remember from traveling by trains in Poland are TT-Kalashnikov armed security inside the trains :shifty::runaway:

Meanwhile part of Warsaw - Berlin rail tracks modernisation has been finished and from new timetable Warsaw - Berlin rail journey takes 5 h 8 min.:)

Polish part of the route, lenght 475 km takes 4 hours with 7 stops in:

Warszawa Zachodnia
Kutno
Konin
Poznań Główny
Zbąszynek
Świebodzin
Rzepin

Average speed is 119 km/h.

After completing modernisation (because there are parts of the route with only 120 km/h) Warsaw - Berlin travel should be shorter than 5 hours.

Average speed is 119 km/h.
Not acceptable :colbert:

Another good news from Poland when taking into account RB. Should be finished till the end of 2014, 1st construction works start this year. :cheers:

Soon will start the modernization of the Rail Baltica. In this framework is to be built, among others. new railway station in Warsaw, and an additional pair of tracks between Zielonka and Wolomin.


The project involves the modernization of the line segment Rembertów - Zielonka - Fats (Sadowne) with a length of over 60 km. In the first stage will be upgraded all the elements of the infrastructure, while adapting some of its elements to the speed of 200 km / h. This applies to the tracks, platforms and engineering facilities, equipment and traction power supply systems and related security environment. The plan is to build a multi-level junctions (liquidation of all journeys in the level crossings). Also planned the installation of ERTMS.

In the section Zielonka - Solar Wołomin order provides for the addition of additional pair of tracks for suburban traffic.

Modernization will bring many facilities to passengers. Appears now stop - Wet Lye, platforms are designed for people with reduced mobility, underpasses will be built, to be mounted megaphones and software that enable automatic forwarding of messages. Messages will be broadcast on the set signal from the outside (for example, signaling equipment, or train with motion sensors). The information will be broadcast in Polish and two foreign languages ​​(English and Russian). Stations and bus stops will be equipped with the system displays on platforms and station building. Wet stops additionally at Lye, Green Banking, will be installed loudspeakers, clocks and permanent marking, and the dryer stops Kobyłka, Kobyłka, Wołomin Solar and Zielonka stations, will be installed Wołomin displays, megaphones, clocks and permanent marking.

In addition, for residents of property located near the railway line provides for the construction of screens, in order to minimize the impact of sound passing trains.

Route Warsaw Rembertów - Zielonka - Fats (Sadowne) is part of the E 75 railway line, which is a priority. It is part of the trans-European corridor forming part of the TEN-T. As part of the train is called the "Rail Baltica" - connects Warsaw through Kaunas, Riga, Tallinn to Helsinki. Is important because it is the only rail link Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, with Polish and other European Union countries.

Source: http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/29678/Bedzie_druga_para_torow_do_Wolomina.htm

Not acceptable :colbert:

This is average speed, commercial is mostly 160 km/h. It`s enough.

Anyway, on German east border trains aren`t faster than in Poland.:)

What is the total distance Berlin-Warszaw?

What is the total distance Berlin-Warszaw?

575 km

575 km

For comparison, Madrid-Barcelona is 621 km.

Meanwhile part of Warsaw - Berlin rail tracks modernisation has been finished and from new timetable Warsaw - Berlin rail journey takes 5 h 8 min.:)


Good news. I hope BWE becomes more popular.
They should do with E20 as they do with E65, for 250km/h. It should bring the Warszawa - Berlin down to 3h. Maybe when E65 is finished?

In Sweden they adapt classical lines for 250km/h. So should not be problem in other countries as well. Train passing platform at 250km/h is not problem when platform is wide enough and the right marking with announcment of approaching train is used.

Another good news from Poland when taking into account RB. Should be finished till the end of 2014, 1st construction works start this year.

Soon will start the modernization of the Rail Baltica. In this framework is to be built, among others. new railway station in Warsaw, and an additional pair of tracks between Zielonka and Wolomin.


The project involves the modernization of the line segment Rembertów - Zielonka - Fats (Sadowne) with a length of over 60 km. In the first stage will be upgraded all the elements of the infrastructure, while adapting some of its elements to the speed of 200 km / h. This applies to the tracks, platforms and engineering facilities, equipment and traction power supply systems and related security environment. The plan is to build a multi-level junctions (liquidation of all journeys in the level crossings). Also planned the installation of ERTMS.

Good about E75 from Warszawa to Bialystok is the alignment. It's almost completely stright so upgrade for 200km/h or even 250km/h when ETCS level2 is installed should need only minimal changes for alignment. The railway crossings are other part of course.

Polish rail network has suffered some bad times. But I hope it will get more investments. I like the stations program for 2012. And the loco hauled trains are good if carriages are clean and well designed(doesn't mean expensive design).

In Sweden they adapt classical lines for 250km/h. So should not be problem in other countries as well.

No line in Sweden exceeds 205 km/h.

Good news. I hope BWE becomes more popular.
They should do with E20 as they do with E65, for 250km/h. It should bring the Warszawa - Berlin down to 3h. Maybe when E65 is finished?

In Sweden they adapt classical lines for 250km/h. So should not be problem in other countries as well. Train passing platform at 250km/h is not problem when platform is wide enough and the right marking with announcment of approaching train is used.



The tickets prices for Warsaw - Berlin express cost ranges from 29 to 39 EUR, so the price seems quite resonable.
With 9 stops on the line the passenger stream may be qiute big, considering that in Berlin one can choose many destinations in Germany, Hollnad, France, etc.

There are 5 direct Warsaw - Berlin trains daily (one of them is Euro Night ekspress).

When I look into timetable I see that a lot of time is wasted when War - Ber expess crosses PL / DE border, look:

Rzepin - Frankfurt / Oder distance is less than 25 km and it takes 20 min for the train, I think it should take no more than 10 min.

Station Arrival Departure

Rzepin 10:51 10:54
Frankfurt(Oder)(Border)
Frankfurt(Oder) 11:14 11:17
Berlin Ostbf 12:03

Then journey could last less than 5 houres with 9 stops. I don`t know why does it last so long ?

Good about E75 from Warszawa to Bialystok is the alignment. It's almost completely stright so upgrade for 200km/h or even 250km/h when ETCS level2 is installed should need only minimal changes for alignment. The railway crossings are other part of course.

Polish rail network has suffered some bad times. But I hope it will get more investments. I like the stations program for 2012. And the loco hauled trains are good if carriages are clean and well designed(doesn't mean expensive design).

That`s why it will undergo modernisation considering 200 km /h.

I don`t understand Lithuanians, who are building their RB part with 120 km/h speed for passenger trains (80 km/h for cargo).:lol: or maybe I don`t understand smth...


Discussion here is pointless if Lithuania is building their RB parth with maximum speed 120 km/h.

http://www.rail-baltica.lt/content/archive.php?act=detail&lang_id=1&cat_id=5&subcat_id=13&cont_id=86

Google trans:

December 19, SC "Lithuanian Railways CEO Stasys Dailydka and company Sweco Lithuania, President Arthur signed Abromavicius project" Rail Baltica "section of Mariampole - Šeštokai design work contract.


This is the last of this type of contract the construction of a European railway linking the territory of Lithuania, stretch Polish / Lithuanian border - Kaunas.Konkurso winner of the joint venture contract united group of partners, consisting of company Sweco Lithuania, Eisenbahn-und Bauplanungsgesellschaft mbH, Erfurt and Company, bridge expert center is committed to design an existing rail segment Bialystok - Šeštokai reconstruction along the existing railway line for the installation of an additional 1435 mm gauge track. Length was 33 km, the contract value of EUR 500.00 8527, the works be carried out within 10 months from the signing date.
According to the SC "Lithuanian Railways Director General Dailydka Stasio, the contract is unique in that it has completed its" Rail Baltica "track-laying of European territory of Lithuania, works the design stage.
"After signing this agreement the entire stretch of the Polish-Lithuanian border to Kaunas, where the construction of the European track, the design stage of work is moving rapidly toward the end of next year and will begin construction work, - said S. Dailydka. - We are glad that the project "Rail Baltica" is gaining momentum and to work consistently and purposefully, to overcome frequent challenges are being successfully implemented. "

Company Sweco Lithuania "President Arthur Abromavicius said, next to the existing 1520 mm gauge track will focus on 1435 mm track gauge more suitable for 120 km / hr. speed passenger trains and 80 km / hr. the speed of freight trains.:ohno: This "Rail Baltica" section also will focus on the reconstruction of the existing stations, 35 culverts, several bridges and viaducts, and other engineering structures.
"Before the eyes - difficult and complex project requiring knowledge, but everything should go smoothly and on time for all joint venture partners have expertise and have extensive experience in design" - sums up Mr Abromavicius.

^^ Me neither :lol: In Lithuania every railway project is RAIL BALTICA :nuts:

Reconstruction of old 1524 railroad tracks= RAIL BALTICA

Adding of the track to the existing lines to make 1524/1435 lines= RAIL BALTICA

Completely new high speed 1435 lines= RAIL BALTICA

Marijampolė-Kaunas- Šiauliai reconstruction of existing lines= RAIL BALTICA

Marijampolė-Kaunas-Panevėžys completely new 1435 railroad= RAIL BALTICA

Restoration of the line Alytus- Varėna and creating line Vilnius-Alytus-Polish border= ?? RAIL BALTICA!!!

:bash:

Why don`t You build at least 160 / 200 km/h line at once, but deficient 120 km /h tracks. Will it bring any benefits ?

Why don`t You build at least 160 / 200 km/h line at once, but deficient 120 km /h tracks. Will it bring any benefits ?

I guess it related to EU funds. For example they built Southern bypass in Vilnius partly financed by EU money, then they built Outer Southern bypass and also Southern bypass of the Old Town :lol:

All three roads were needed for the city, but it would be difficult to get financing if it was named only some inner street, but when it is bypass or RAIL BALTICA, it is ok to build them all by EU funds :nuts:

They will modernise and upgrade existing lines, and later will build the whole new high-speed line. :)

No line in Sweden exceeds 205 km/h.

Well, Botniabanan is 250, but that is a new one.

Eurocity from Tri-City to Berlin

Already in the spring is to go ahead with the Tri-Eurocity train to Berlin. Is already pre-agreed timetable.

For several days in Ljubljana last international conference on the timetable, which will be introduced in December this year. In the course of Poles to Germany presented the project to start direct rail link to the Tri-City to Berlin. The train would occur primarily designed for Euro 2012.

- The detailed arrangements are underway, but our staff at the conference agreed with the German Rail trains run from June Class of Tri Eurocity by Bydgoszcz, Poznan and Rzepin to Berlin - said Małgorzata Sitkowska, a spokeswoman for PKP Intercity.

From Gdynia to Berlin will be circulated international train the highest category. The train has to wear the name of the scientist Daniel Farhenheit.

It has been determined that the train will be leaving from Gdansk at approx. 11:00 The main station in Berlin reaches at 17:12.

Departure from Berlin is scheduled for 12:40, and arrive to Gdansk at approx. 19:00.

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/1/10950/z10950221Q,Trasa-pociagu-Eurocity--Daniel-Fahrenheit-.jpg

So it means that travel time will be 6 h 20 min.

Won't be cheaper??? It is a lot me expensive than flying, so if they want to be competitive they REALLY need to provide some extra quality to make up the enormous amount of time that is consumed for the trip.

They might make flying more expensive with new climate taxes, thus make train more competetive.

Transport Commissioner Siim Kallas called the Baltic States to accelerate work on the bus, which will facilitate their contacts with the rest of the Union

- This is an historic moment for progress in this project - said during a visit to Riga. - This is the first such project, which will create a region of the Baltic - Estonian added.

It is about connection with Latvia and Estonia, Lithuania and create subsequent connections with the Polish and German. Feasibility studies published in 2007 states that by 2013 warehouses kursowałyby at 120 km / h, but there was a delay in decision making, so to achieve this term has become unrealistic.

Kallas said that the European Commission is ready to organize and finance a new development, where three of these countries there is about it. Brussels estimates that the full cost of the bus the Baltic would be 3.7 billion euros. The Commissioner made ​​it clear that Brussels could cover up to 85 percent. this sum, using funds from a pool of 10 billion for large infrastructure projects for at least 3 countries.

- Certainly there is a fight about those 10 billion, but if that fails, then we in the Baltic countries will never have enough money to finance such a large project - he said.

Travel by rail, although cheap by European standards, is not particularly popular in the Baltic countries, which in 2004 joined the EU in 13 years after regaining independence from the USSR. Years of under-invested are one factor, and the predominant gauge in them from the Soviet era the second impeding the integration of western Europe. So the journey by train from Riga to Tallinn, just 300 km, takes twice longer than 4 hours away by car.

Is it real that Tallinn Riga by train takes 8 houres :bash: ?

It`s only 300 km.

Is it real that Tallinn Riga by train takes 8 houres :bash: ?

It`s only 300 km.
~420km via existing railways

Sad, that Šiauliai is not Vilnius, in that case, two biggest cities would be conected by this kind of a train:

CwuJecVq0z8

But the priority in Lithuania are lines Vilnius-Kaunas and further to Kaliningrad and Vilnius-Klaipėda. East-West direction, not North-South...

Is it real that Tallinn Riga by train takes 8 houres :bash: ?

It`s only 300 km.

The distances are:
Great circle - 282 km
Road - 310 km
Railway via Lelle, Pärnu, Mõisaküla, Rujiena and Skulte - 350 km
Railway via Tapa, Tartu and Valga - 441 km.

The present traffic speeds:
Tallinn-Tartu, 190 km - 2 daily all-stop trains (3:05-3:06), 1...4 daily express trains (depending on weekday) in the range of 2:20-2:23.
Tartu-Valga, 83 km - 2 daily trains, both all-stop, both 1:33. 1 of them having continued all-stop train from Tallinn. So total 4:48.
Valga-Riga, 168 km - 3 daily trains, all all-stop. 3:10...3:19. With connection at Valga, it means a grand total 8:17. Having made a total of 56 stops excluding Tallinn and Riga.

Even on the 441 km railway, an express train under 5 hours would not be impossible.

56 stops. That is a way tooo much.. In a country with 30 people per square kilometer. It shoud stop only in Tartu. Period.
And then only in Riga. Period.

Impossible.
And what about Your super duper renovated railways? One guy spent the whole evening, talking about fully renovated estonian railways in contrast to shitty lithuanian 120km per hour on Kaunas line and shitty average of 90km/h on Klaipėda line... Hmm :dunno:

Just for comparison's sake: the bus takes 4h 25min.

The railway distance of Tallinn-Tartu-Valga-Riga is a clear indication of why the new Rail Baltic should go straight via Pärnu.

@ vilniusguide: Tallinn-Tartu-Valga is indeed fully 120km/h although in some stations (and in a few other places) the train has to slow down because of the track curvature/noise/safety. Even if the train did stop only in Tartu, it would still be difficult to maintain an average speed higher than 90km/h and that would still be slower than the bus. And AFAIK, the Latvian side has quite a few sections where the maximum allowed speed is less than 120km/h.

To be honest, it would be quite silly for a Tallinn-Riga intercity train to only stop in Tartu. The train should at least also stop in Valga/Valka (pop. 14,000), Valmiera (pop. 27,000), Cesis (pop. 18,000) and Sigulda (pop. 11,000).

BTW, the current train connection between Estonia and Latvia can in no means be described as a Tallinn-Riga train. It's merely an Estonian regional train service which has a syncronised schedule with the Latvian regional Valka-Riga train.

------

Just to correct you, according to litrail.lt, Vilnius-Klaipeda train has an average speed of 83km/h, not 90km/h. It's still quite OK, though.

To be honest, it would be quite silly to only stop in Tartu. The train should at least also stop in Valga/Valka (pop. 14,000), Valmiera (pop. 27,000), Cesis (pop. 18,000) and Sigulda (pop. 11,000).

Compare. Now they are upgrading Vilnius-Kaunas railway line to 160km/h line. Now fast train stop at maybe 5-6 stations, but after the reconstruction is finished in 2013 or 2014, it will stop only in Kaišiadorys (~11 000) and will not stop at Lentvaris (~13 000) or Vievis (~7 000), remoted elderate of Vilnius- Paneriai or remoted Kaunas neighbourhood- Palemonas, both with maybe 10 000 inhabitants...
So, only one stop...
There will be slow trains, that will stop near every kiosk :lol:
Tallinn- Riga is more important than Vilnius- Kaunas. There can be some slow trains, but also fast train is just necessary...
Otherwise it has no chance to compete with buses or private cars.

Maybe 83km/h, but there are no dual road on one short section of the route... Now they are working on it!
And on Vilnius- Šiauliai section train always ride 120km/h :)

^^ As I pointed out, even with only one stop in Tartu, the train still has no chance of competing with the bus in travel time. And it definitely has no chance in competing with the price. You can get a Tallinn-Riga bus ticket for 11 EUR. At the moment, Tallinn-Valga alone costs € 9 on the train.

And I disagree that Tallinn-Riga is more important(i.e. has more potential passengers) than Vilnius-Kaunas. Vilnius and Kaunas are the 2 biggest cities in Lithuania with just 100km apart. Tallinn and Riga are the biggest cities of 2 different countries with 300km(road) or 440km(rail) apart.

BTW, are there any clues of what the travel time might be when the 160km/h upgrade is finished on Vilnius-Kaunas line?

^^ As I pointed out, even with only one stop in Tartu, the train still has no chance of competing with the bus in travel time. And it definitely has no chance in competing with the price. You can get a Tallinn-Riga ticket for 11 EUR.

And I disagree that Tallinn-Riga is more important than Vilnius-Kaunas. Vilnius and Kaunas are the 2 biggest cities in Lithuania with just 100km apart. Tallinn and Riga are the biggest cities of 2 different countries with 300km(road) or 440km(rail) apart.

Riga and Tallinn both are capitals and bigger cities.
If the speed is OK, it can compete.
Vilnius-Klaipėda. It takes 4:32 by train (376km) and ~4 hours by car. The train is quite competitive. Many people go by train instead of 320 km on Autobahn, what is tiresome.
After driving on more than 20 000/per day or 75 000/per day near Kaunas, road, I wanna vomit, and after traveling by train and observing nice views of Lithuania through the windows, I am always very happy when reached Klaipėda. :banana:.

56 stops. That is a way tooo much.. In a country with 30 people per square kilometer. It shoud stop only in Tartu. Period.
And then only in Riga. Period.



That`s too much. Berlin Warsaw Eurocity has 12 stops on the route with 3 stops in Warsaw, 2 in Berlin. It`s 580 km distance and 5h 8 min travel time (Between Warsaw Central and Berlin Ostbf).

1) Warszawa East 09:38
2) Warszawa Centralna 09:55
3) Warszawa West 10:00
4) Kutno
5) Konin
6) Poznań Główny
7) Zbąszynek
8) Świebodzin
9) Rzepin 13:51
10) Frankfurt(Oder)
11) Berlin Ostbf 15:06
12) Berlin Hbf 15:12


On decent Suwałki - Białystok railway, distance 139 km, 24 stops, train makes it in 2h 15 min, which gives average 62 km /h (less stops - faster train, I think 2 h is achievable)

On Białystok - Warszawa railway, distance 177 km, 7 stops, train makes it in 2h 20 min, which gives average 76 km / h.


Suwałki - Trakiszki (PL/LT border) train goes 28 min (28 km)
Suwałki - Warsaw Central train could go in 4 h 15 (316 km).
Then Warsaw Central - Rzepin (PL/DE border), distance 478 km, time 4 h.

So to cross entire Poland with train from Lithuania is possible in 8 h 40 min, distance 822 km, it makes average speed of 95 km/h. Not so bad.

Poznań new railway station construction site and visualisation of finished station (Poznań is one of the stations on Rail Baltica route as part of Warsaw - Berlin railway). Whole complex (station with shopping mall, cost 160 million EUR) will be finished by 2013.

http://epoznan.pl/gallery/bab725c8f30b6486bba78385d5567a23/4f152305e2ce0.jpg

http://epoznan.pl/gallery/bab725c8f30b6486bba78385d5567a23/4f152305e3921.jpg

Old station is on the right, some platforms will be hidden under 2 storey car parking:

http://epoznan.pl/gallery/bab725c8f30b6486bba78385d5567a23/20120116180334.jpg

http://epoznan.pl/gallery/1e1d5eb0c33c5f8de1eed33455494cc9/4f15776aa5710.jpg

More on : http://www.poznanglowny.pl/#!en/

Even if the train did stop only in Tartu, it would still be difficult to maintain an average speed higher than 90km/h and that would still be slower than the bus.
Thanks to the long route.
Both all-stop trains on the 190 km Tallinn-Tartu make 18 intermediate stops, and take 3:05...3:06. Whereas all 4 express trains - of which only 2 travel on weekdays - make same 4 intermediate stops (Ülemiste, Tapa, Tamsalu, Jõgeva) and take 2:20...2:23. Which is faster than the bus on the Death Road - 2:25.

And AFAIK, the Latvian side has quite a few sections where the maximum allowed speed is less than 120km/h.

To be honest, it would be quite silly for a Tallinn-Riga intercity train to only stop in Tartu. The train should at least also stop in Valga/Valka (pop. 14,000), Valmiera (pop. 27,000), Cesis (pop. 18,000) and Sigulda (pop. 11,000).



Actually, the Latvian train which connects from the Tallinn-Valga train is the one which makes all the stops - 25 between Valga and Riga, taking 3:19 for the 168 km. It is the only one to serve Silciems (interestingly, only one way...). The other trains Valga-Riga take 3:16 (skipping Silciems) and 3:10 (skipping Silciems but also Krievupe and Baltezers).

Hm, Estonia does have 2 daily all-stopping trains Tallinn-Tartu - but also at least 1 express train every day. The people at Krievupe and Vangaži etc. no doubt need their regular connection to Riga (how does Silciems manage with trains only ever going to Riga, and never from Riga?), but wouldn´t the Latvians like a regular express train besides, not instead of the all-stop trains, which could stop for example at Valmiera, Cesis and Sigulda but skip all the rest?

How fast could a Valga-Riga train travel with these 3 stops?

That`s too much. Berlin Warsaw Eurocity has 12 stops on the route with 3 stops in Warsaw, 2 in Berlin. It`s 580 km distance and 5h 8 min travel time (Between Warsaw Central and Berlin Ostbf).

As I said earlier, technically there is no such thing as a Tallinn-Riga train. You can take a train to Valga in Estonia and if you wish you can change trains there to continue your trip into Latvia.

So calling it a Tallinn-Riga train is like saying that if you start your journey in Paldiski and switch to Tallinn-Moscow train in Tallinn, you're taking the Paldiski-Moscow train.

So why isn't there a direct Tallinn-Riga train you may ask. It's because no private company has an interest to invest vastly large amounts of money into a service that's invevitably slower and more expensive than the competing bus service. And the Estonian government does not subsidise international trains. If, let's say, the railway speed was risen to 160km/h, you could probably manage an average of 110-120km/h and do Tallinn-Riga in 4h. Then you might have some interest in opening the line.

Sad, that Šiauliai is not Vilnius, in that case, two biggest cities would be conected by this kind of a train:

But the priority in Lithuania are lines Vilnius-Kaunas and further to Kaliningrad and Vilnius-Klaipėda. East-West direction, not North-South...

How are Vilnius and Klaipeda now connected? Was there a line that went north to Šiauliai and only then turned west to Klaipeda?

^^ Yep: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/baltic-states/baltic-states.gif

BTW, is there a plan to improve the train connection between Panevežys and Šiauliai?

Note that Kaunas-Šiauliai is already mostly double track.

Upgrading and speeding up the line would help with BOTH Vilnius-Šiauliai-Klaipeda AND Vilnius-Šiauliai-Meitene-Jelgava trains.

Note that Kaunas-Šiauliai is already mostly double track.

Upgrading and speeding up the line would help with BOTH Vilnius-Šiauliai-Klaipeda AND Vilnius-Šiauliai-Meitene-Jelgava trains.

" Gaižiūnai - Šiauliai projektuojama esamo 1520 mm dvikelio rekonstrukcija. Ruožuose Gaižiūnai-Jonava 7km, Šilainiai-Kėdainiai 7km Žeimiai-Lukšiai 10 km ir Gimbogala-Linkaičiai 6km., kuriuose yra vienkeliai projektuojami antrieji geležinkelio keliai. Tai leis padidinti greitį ruože iki 160km/val. keleiviniams traukiniams ir iki 120km/val. krovininiams traukiniams.
" Šiauliai - Joniškis - LT/LV siena. Projektuojamas geležinkelio kelias 120 km/val. keleivinių ir 90 km/val. prekinių traukinių greičiui ir 25t apkrovai. Siekiant, kad linija atitiktų keliamus reikalavimus, sutrumpėtų kelionės laikas, sumažėtų aplinkos tarša ir triukšmas bus atlikti tam tikri pertrasavimai, rekonstruota žemės sankasa, viršutinė kelio konstrukcija, statiniai, taip pat modernizuota signalizacija, telekomunikacijų ir elektros tiekimo sistema, pertvarkyta stočių infrastruktūra.
http://www.elta.lt/zinute_pr.php?inf_id=1400779

It say they are working on Kaišiadorys- Šiauliai line, and by project, second track will be build and the line upgraded, the speed for commercial trains will be 160km/h and for freight trains- 120km.

Also Šiauliai-Joniškis-Latvian border line reconstruction is being planned.
According to the plan, after the reconstruction, commercial speed will be 120km/h, freight- 90km/h.

P.S. I like the name of a town- Meitene. It means "A Girl". :lol: With such superbe names of towns, lai dzivo Latvija! :)

http://www.elta.lt/zinute_pr.php?inf_id=1400779

It say they are working on Kaišiadorys- Šiauliai line, and by project, second track will be build and the line upgraded, the speed for commercial trains will be 160km/h and for freight trains- 120km.

Also Šiauliai-Joniškis-Latvian border line reconstruction is being planned.
According to the plan, after the reconstruction, commercial speed will be 120km/h, freight- 90km/h.

P.S. I like the name of a town- Meitene. It means "A Girl". :lol: With such superbe names of towns, lai dzivo Latvija! :)

So, after the completion of the upgrades to Šarkiai, what shall be the passenger travel time Kaunas-Šiauliai? Kaunas-Šiauliai-Šarkiai-Riga?

Does Lithuania have any plans to electrify Kaišiadorys-Šiauliai?

So, after the completion of the upgrades to Šarkiai, what shall be the passenger travel time Kaunas-Šiauliai? Kaunas-Šiauliai-Šarkiai-Riga?

Does Lithuania have any plans to electrify Kaišiadorys-Šiauliai?

Nowadays Kaunas-Šiauliai takes 2:33, so, after reconstruction, I guess, it will be faster :nuts::lol:
The line will be upgraded to 160km/h. Now it is 120km/h with some one track sections (7+7+10+6= 30km).

There are plans to electrify the whole line Vilnius-Klaipėda. I guess by 2974 year it will be made. ;)

http://www.e24.ee/707360/sebe-tahab-suunduda-raudteearisse/

An Estonian bus company, SEBE, wishes to enter rail business. There seems to be a lot of interest in rail business lately.

EDIT: meh... Wrong thread and I am slow. :D

post moved into Latvian railway thread -> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=88473796#post88473796

Thanks to the long route.
Both all-stop trains on the 190 km Tallinn-Tartu make 18 intermediate stops, and take 3:05...3:06. Whereas all 4 express trains - of which only 2 travel on weekdays - make same 4 intermediate stops (Ülemiste, Tapa, Tamsalu, Jõgeva) and take 2:20...2:23. Which is faster than the bus on the Death Road - 2:25.


If Tallinn - tartu was completely electrified then the semi fast train having 18 stops could do it about 2:30 instead ~3:06 at moment. And then express trains could cover it 2:01 :)

From July the Tallinn - Tartu express trains should make it about 2:12...2:16.

Poznań new railway station construction site and visualisation of finished station (Poznań is one of the stations on Rail Baltica route as part of Warsaw - Berlin railway). Whole complex (station with shopping mall, cost 160 million EUR) will be finished by 2013.


You are getting some great stations. Looks nice. I wanna come and see at summer if I manage to get some time. And the loco hauled trains are also great.

I would only say that the parking lot that enjoys sunlight is a bit uncommon. Usually new projects should be maid so that sunlight is for people and cars can park underground.

http://epoznan.pl/gallery/1e1d5eb0c33c5f8de1eed33455494cc9/4f15776aa5710.jpg


That roundabout makes a lot of sense :lol:

If Tallinn - tartu was completely electrified then the semi fast train having 18 stops could do it about 2:30 instead ~3:06 at moment. And then express trains could cover it 2:01 :)

From July the Tallinn - Tartu express trains should make it about 2:12...2:16.

For comparison:
Helsinki-Turku 194 km
all trains making the same 7 intermediate stops cover it in 1:58
Helsinki-Tampere 187 km
slow trains with same 14 intermediate stops cover it in 2:03
fast trains with same 2 intermediate stops cover it in 1:30
semi fast trains with same 5 intermediate stops cover it in 1:46

^^ Yeah, let's compare train schedules between a 180km/h+ railway and a 120km/h railway. :D

That roundabout makes a lot of sense :lol:

There will not be rounabout:), that was only visualisation, the target road system on Poznań Railway station will look like this:

http://www.srm.eco.pl/images/stories/mag2011/poznan-glowny.jpg
Źródło: SRM (http://www.srm.eco.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1213&Itemid=33)

The normal path to Kaunas in 2014

Deputy Minister Andrzej Massel talked yesterday with his Lithuanian counterpart on how to improve rail links between the Polish and Lithuania. The situation may improve in 2014, when he completed the construction of standard gauge line to Kaunas. Then you will not need change in Sestokai.


He said, "Railway Market Oriented" Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Transport were talking about how to improve the movement of trains between the Polish and Lithuania before creating the Rail Baltica. - Rail Baltica is a project which attaches very great importance, the European Commission and jointly with the Minister Starasem talked about how we can achieve the improvement of the situation before this line to a speed of 240-250 km / hr., Because that even the European Commission suggests the creation. It is known that the project in such a large scale is not a matter of several years, a dozen or more decades. We talked about how to improve the situation in 3-4 years - explains Andrzej Massel.

- The Lithuanian expanding existing railway line to Marijampole and to Kaunas so that more or less in 2014 could have been the normal path to get to Kaunas. It already will be an important success, because a significant proportion of the goods will be able to commute from logistic cents in Kaunas in Western Europe without reloading. Also for passenger traffic it will be advantageous, because the change in Kaunas is not the same as the change in Sestokai, or in the proverbial box. We have a common interest, to the improvement of this route to reach - assured Minister of transport.

PR. The curves of the railway will be left not straightened so it will remain very slow. Moreover, they have built only 7 km and now the project halted, because provincial people in Marijampolė are "against trains"- like Luddites against machines :|

Of course, they do not know the term "Luddites", they are just provincial and greedy...

PR. The curves of the railway will be left not straightened so it will remain very slow. Moreover, they have built only 7 km and now the project halted, because provincial people in Marijampolė are "against trains"- like Luddites against machines :|

Of course, they do not know the term "Luddites", they are just provincial and greedy...

Because that even the European Commission suggests the creation. It is known that the project in such a large scale is not a matter of several years, a dozen or more decades. We talked about how to improve the situation in 3-4 years - explains Andrzej Massel.

So they know that RB will be constructed more than one decade...

Lithuania is building their normal gauge track to Kaunas with 120 km/h for passenger trains and 80 km/h for cargo trains. :ohno:

In Poland they start to build first part of RB from Warsaw towards Białystok (70 km) with much better parameters - 160 km/h for passenger trains (with elemnts of infrastructures adapted for 200 km/h). I think that track geometry will be for 200 km/h, but there still will be some collisin track crossings, which allow in Poland max. speed of 160 km/h. When they build all viaducts over the line, then trains could go 200 km/h. I think that by 2018 Warsaw - Białystok section will be ready.

I wonder why Lithuania doesn`t build it`s part of RB adapted for 160 / 200 kph, instear LG build outdated line for 120 km/h ?

Because that even the European Commission suggests the creation. It is known that the project in such a large scale is not a matter of several years, a dozen or more decades. We talked about how to improve the situation in 3-4 years - explains Andrzej Massel.

So they know that RB will be constructed more than one decade...


Does it mean Rail Baltica shall take 120, 130 or more years to complete? Is Rail Baltica due for completion in 2132, 2152 or beyond?

There are 5 or more projects, all named Rail Baltica in Lithuania. The one they are building now will be not Rail Baltica... Rail Baltica will be completely new line, not reconstructed one, financed by EU in 2014-2020, I don't know what they are building now...
There is a project of REAL Rail Baltica and it is not what they are upgrading now :lol:

Does it mean Rail Baltica shall take 120, 130 or more years to complete? Is Rail Baltica due for completion in 2132, 2152 or beyond?

RB is strictly political project. What has to be done is to modernize existing infrastructure up to 160 / 200 kph, double track - it doesn`t need constructing new line.

It could allow for ICE train to ride 1000 km route from Tallin to Warsaw in 8 hours with stops in Tartu, Riga, Kaunas and Białystok.

Dreaming of HSR connectin between Tallinn and Berlin ?

Have oyu ever seen such long HSR , lenght 1600 km connecting 3 cities with total population of 2 mil ?
Is it cost-effective ?
No, that`s why it`s political project.

Instead of building new HSR line, existing infrastructure should be modernize, total cost could be 3 times lower and it will allow also cargo trains to use this line, in case of HRS it`s not possible.

Currently am working with things close to Rail Baltic almost every day. Among more or less serious specialists this project is seen as cargo train project. There will be needed huge effort to re-orientate Latvian transport infrastructure to make it (i mean - Rail Baltica) somewhat less tragic financially.

There are 5 or more projects, all named Rail Baltica in Lithuania. The one they are building now will be not Rail Baltica... Rail Baltica will be completely new line, not reconstructed one, financed by EU in 2014-2020, I don't know what they are building now...
There is a project of REAL Rail Baltica and it is not what they are upgrading now :lol:

Could you list these 5?
1) crooked, slow 1435 mm railway along the existing 1520 mm railway to Kaunas, meant mainly for freight
2)?
3)?
4)?
5)?

Currently am working with things close to Rail Baltic almost every day. Among more or less serious specialists this project is seen as cargo train project. There will be needed huge effort to re-orientate Latvian transport infrastructure to make it (i mean - Rail Baltica) somewhat less tragic financially.

What cargo is really expected? Is it really bulk originating in Baltic states to justify idea of introducing 1435mm tracks here?

Exactly. Nothing to do - if we go for this project, we at least try to rearrange our transport system so that it uses this damn Rail Baltica. There MIGHT be some places in Europe, where it is cheaper to transport goods by rail than by sea.

RB is strictly political project. What has to be done is to modernize existing infrastructure up to 160 / 200 kph, double track
Agreed.

- it doesn`t need constructing new line.

But new line should also be built.

It could allow for ICE train to ride 1000 km route from Tallin to Warsaw in 8 hours with stops in Tartu, Riga, Kaunas and Białystok.

More like 1300 km.

Dreaming of HSR connectin between Tallinn and Berlin ?

Have oyu ever seen such long HSR , lenght 1600 km connecting 3 cities with total population of 2 mil ?
Not yet.

But what about Warszawa? Poznan?

Berlin-Poznan-Warszawa is 575 km.
Poland has almost as many inhabitants as whole Spain, and much more than Catalonia.
Madrid-Barcelona is 621 km.
AVE covers Madrid-Barcelona in 2:30.

Berlin-Warszawa HSR could be feasible, and cover Warszaw-Berlin in 2:30.
It could make sense in itself, taken separately.
And the HSR-s Moscow-Minsk-Brest-Warszaw and Tallinn-Pärnu-Riga-Kaunas-Bialystok-Warzaw can both continue to Berlin via the Warszaw-Poznan-Frankfurt-Berlin HSR.

Could you list these 5?
1) crooked, slow 1435 mm railway along the existing 1520 mm railway to Kaunas, meant mainly for freight
2)?
3)?
4)?
5)?

Copy-pasted myslef.



^^ Me neither :lol: In Lithuania every railway project is RAIL BALTICA :nuts:

Reconstruction of old 1524 railroad tracks= RAIL BALTICA

Adding of the track to the existing lines to make 1524/1435 lines= RAIL BALTICA

Completely new high speed 1435 lines= RAIL BALTICA

Marijampolė-Kaunas- Šiauliai reconstruction of existing lines= RAIL BALTICA

Marijampolė-Kaunas-Panevėžys completely new 1435 railroad= RAIL BALTICA

Restoration of the line Alytus- Varėna and creating line Vilnius-Alytus-Polish border= ?? RAIL BALTICA!!!

:bash:

Why don`t You build at least 160 / 200 km/h line at once, but deficient 120 km /h tracks. Will it bring any benefits ?

I guess it related to EU funds. For example they built Southern bypass in Vilnius partly financed by EU money, then they built Outer Southern bypass and also Southern bypass of the Old Town :lol:

All three roads were needed for the city, but it would be difficult to get financing if it was named only some inner street, but when it is bypass or RAIL BALTICA, it is ok to build them all by EU funds :nuts:

They will modernise and upgrade existing lines, and later will build the whole new high-speed line. :)

Copy-pasted myslef.



^^ Me neither :lol: In Lithuania every railway project is RAIL BALTICA :nuts:

Reconstruction of old 1524 railroad tracks= RAIL BALTICA

Marijampolė-Kaunas- Šiauliai reconstruction of existing lines= RAIL BALTICA


Are these 2 different items?

Exactly. Nothing to do - if we go for this project, we at least try to rearrange our transport system so that it uses this damn Rail Baltica. There MIGHT be some places in Europe, where it is cheaper to transport goods by rail than by sea.
Some nice mentality there,bro. :lol: I guess that proposed Riga-Moscow HSR line is far more useful for you?

Here we go again...

Currently am working with things close to Rail Baltic almost every day. Among more or less serious specialists this project is seen as cargo train project. There will be needed huge effort to re-orientate Latvian transport infrastructure to make it (i mean - Rail Baltica) somewhat less tragic financially.
First of all, the feasibility study itself says that Rail Baltica would get the majority of its revenue from freight traffic. And I do hope you've read it. Passenger traffic just influences more people directly, this is why the media porterys the passenger travel side of Rail Baltica.

Secondly, what's the big fuss about rearranging the goods flow in Latvia? This is a long-term project which will influence cross-country transportation in the Baltic states for 30 years or more. There will be plenty of time to adapt to the new situation once(if) the Rail Baltica construction starts.

It's also pretty likely that there will be a road tax for trucks in both Estonia and Latvia sooner or later. This would also influence the profitability of Rail Baltica. Of course it's impossible to predict the future but it's also ridiculous to assume that the traffic flows won't change in the next 20-40 years.

And a question to you: If you think that the current plan for Rail Baltica is a financial catastrophe waiting to happen, what would the ideal rail network in the Baltics look like in your opinion? Even more, what would be your idea for the transport policy of Baltic States for the next 30 years - what would be the projects worth investing in etc?

Guys, please respect Gatis INFORMED opinion. He works with these things, he is not trolling or expressing his personal opinion.

You know that HSR lione excludes cargo trains, it`s separated only for paassenger trains.

You know that HSR lione excludes cargo trains, it`s separated only for paassenger trains.

Certainly not so.

Agreed.

Berlin-Poznan-Warszawa is 575 km.
Poland has almost as many inhabitants as whole Spain, and much more than Catalonia.
Madrid-Barcelona is 621 km.
AVE covers Madrid-Barcelona in 2:30.

Berlin-Warszawa HSR could be feasible, and cover Warszaw-Berlin in 2:30.
It could make sense in itself, taken separately.
And the HSR-s Moscow-Minsk-Brest-Warszaw and Tallinn-Pärnu-Riga-Kaunas-Bialystok-Warzaw can both continue to Berlin via the Warszaw-Poznan-Frankfurt-Berlin HSR.

Warsaw - Łodź - Poznań - Berlin HSR makes sense, the HSR train should cover it in less than 3 houres (today it`s 5 h).

Tallinnn - Warsaw HSR train could make 1300 km in 6 h. So Tallinn Berlin Train could make whole route in 10 - 11 hours.

It`s too long route for HSR. HSR rail it`s to compete on medium distances (less than 1000 km) with planes - then it makes sense.

HSR line should connect really big metro areas (there are no such in the Baltic states, the biggest one Riga has 1 mil pop, other are smaller).

So I think it wouldn`t make any difference if HSR could make Tallin Berlin in 10 h and modernized line up to 160/ 200 kph could make the same route in 14 h.

In Poland they are modernizing E65 route Gdańsk - Warsaw - Katowice Kraków. The line will have 160 / 200 kph, lenght 640 km. Pendolino trains that will enter into operation in 2014 could make this route in 4 h 40 min.

The same modernisation should be done in the Baltics, so Tallin LT/ PL bordder, 950 km distance could be made in 7 hours, then Tallinn - Warsaw in 9 h 30 min, Tallin Berlin in 14 h.

It would cost 3 times less than HSR.

Certainly not so.

Where cargo trains can be found on HSR line ?

On TGV line ?

You know that HSR lione excludes cargo trains, it`s separated only for paassenger trains.

There is no such rule. But, as slow trains eats a lot of capacity, cargo trains are often excluded (also already in design stage) from HSL because there are lots of passenger trains.

Where cargo trains can be found on HSR line ?

On TGV line ?

Rail Baltica is not TGV. It will have 2 or 3 passnger traisn per day. Or even 1. Just one train can take all passngers going on Tallinn - berlin route per day.

First of all, the feasibility study itself says that Rail Baltica would get the majority of its revenue from freight traffic. And I do hope you've read it. Passenger traffic just influences more people directly, this is why the media porterys the passenger travel side of Rail Baltica.
I've not only read it (many times already), but also know the people, who made it, personally. And have been talking about the project. In principle - they made the project look feasible. Simple as that. If we work hard for many years to come, we CAN make it feasible. But - if we want, we could make also financially feasible cosmoport. Everything is possible in this world, it depends what priorities we make.

Secondly, what's the big fuss about rearranging the goods flow in Latvia? This is a long-term project which will influence cross-country transportation in the Baltic states for 30 years or more. There will be plenty of time to adapt to the new situation once(if) the Rail Baltica construction starts.
It won't happen by itself. It needs thorough planning and people here are working at this. Latvia currently is like this:
http://fortnightlitpress.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/knapp01.png?w=480

It's also pretty likely that there will be a road tax for trucks in both Estonia and Latvia sooner or later. This would also influence the profitability of Rail Baltica. Of course it's impossible to predict the future but it's also ridiculous to assume that the traffic flows won't change in the next 20-40 years.
That tax had to be introduced here some years ago, but somehow was "forgotten". It would bring in some 25 - 30 mio EUR per year, and, of course, intensify the use of LV - Russia railways. In longer time it would be beneficial for Rail Baltica.
Of course, everything is changing in this world, no one can say, how EU, China, Russia will look in few decades.

And a question to you: If you think that the current plan for Rail Baltica is a financial catastrophe waiting to happen, what would the ideal rail network in the Baltics look like in your opinion? Even more, what would be your idea for the transport policy of Baltic States for the next 30 years - what would be the projects worth investing in etc?
Train:
a) There are badly needed investments in Riga railway system - there is a terrible modal split between railway and port. Rail bypass around Riga is very needed, cargo train connections to different parts of Riga port need to be modernized, two-level crossings for streets need to be built in many places.
b) Riga suburban passenger railway needs huge investments. It has proven to be very efficient even now, so - this should be huge success if further investments are made. Airport should be included in this system.
c) Property + tax policy for municipalities should be changed in order to facilitate the development of industries around railway lines (currently a lot of things are not happening because everything around railways is private and most private owners don't plan in long term). If this is success, then railway + our ports will work perfectly. It is not normal that large wood processing industries are relying on roads - increase of carrying capacity for roads is terribly expensive.
- and finally:
d) there has to be a normal rail link to the Western Europe, mainly for cargo trains. In this respect it is good to get EU support, otherwise we would be doomed for slow step-by-step improvements. Regarding the width of rails - Lithuania is in perfect geographical position in Baltics and they are using this opportunity.

Regarding the overall Baltic transport strategy: it depends on our own development strategy. If we prefer the development of heavy industries, then there is one transport policy, if we go for service economics, then something else. Latvia, unfortunately, has no clear development vector. Passenger traffic? We have an interesting distance from the centre of Europe, where every kind of transport has its pluses and minuses. HSR to Europe? Only if technologies develop and it becomes a lot cheaper to run such systems. Because our urban centres are far too small.

You know that HSR lione excludes cargo trains, it`s separated only for paassenger trains.
:) For politicians it is still possible to pretend that this is not a problem. AECOM silently murmurs about two Rail Baltic lines - one HSR line for passengers and one "normal" line for cargo. Which one we are planning now? Does somebody know it?

Rail Baltica is not TGV. It will have 2 or 3 passnger traisn per day. Or even 1. Just one train can take all passngers going on Tallinn - berlin route per day.

For 1 train daily investng billions of EUR is worthless.

The distance for HSR is too far for this line.

As Gatis said, Baltic urban centers are too small to invest in HSR and demografic data are not too good. So far Batlic states are inhabited by 6,2 million people diffused on 175 000 sq km, it gives only 35 per sq km.

In polish Silesia Region on 12 300 sq km lives 4,6 mil people, which gives 374 per sq km and many regions in western Europe are even more densly populated. Such regions with connections not exceeding 600 km are suitable for HRS. Only there one can count on proper passenger stream.

less than 3 houres (today it`s 5 h).

Tallinnn - Warsaw HSR train could make 1300 km in 6 h. So Tallinn Berlin Train could make whole route in 10 - 11 hours.

It`s too long route for HSR. HSR rail it`s to compete on medium distances (less than 1000 km) with planes - then it makes sense.

HSR already is competing with planes on 1300 km Beijing-Shanghai and 1500 km Beijing-Hangzhou.

HSR line should connect really big metro areas (there are no such in the Baltic states, the biggest one Riga has 1 mil pop, other are smaller).

And Sendai 1 mil pop is the biggest one in Tohoku, other are smaller.


So I think it wouldn`t make any difference if HSR could make Tallin Berlin in 10 h and modernized line up to 160/ 200 kph could make the same route in 14 h.

10 or 14 hours makes a difference when the choice is either sleep on a sleeper train or a hotel night plus flight in evening or morning.
The distance for HSR is too far for this line.

As Gatis said, Baltic urban centers are too small to invest in HSR and demografic data are not too good. So far Batlic states are inhabited by 6,2 million people diffused on 175 000 sq km, it gives only 35 per sq km.


Finland has 5,4 million diffused on 340 000 sq km. Norrland has 1,1 million people diffused on 260 000 square km.

You guys have been talking about future..


Gatis forgot to add into his A-D section E.

-> Electrification of railways

The future is so that the oil will run out..

Long distances in the future are travelled by electric trains that has wagons that re-charge cars.

Inter city driving is done by electric cars.

Rinspeed electric concept car includes force feedback joystick, 3G enabled dashboard see section 1:06 in video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za3FQacJwDE

This electric car rides the train
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31346_7-10454342-252.html

Rinspeed brings electric cars to the railways
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-02/16/rinspeed-brings-electric-cars-to-the-railways

Oil will not run out for some centuries to come, we will rather f*ck up our climate beyond recognition before it runs out. Whatever, the sooner we skip the oil, the better.
Electric cars + trains... interesting. Many drawbacks to the scheme, but looks like a nice try.

^^ You are indeed right that there will be oil in the ground for centuries but....oil in the ground is not like petrol in the tank of your car. Production of oil follows a Bell curve and some indicators suggest that we've reached a peak. After that point it's impossible to increase oil production.

^^ You are indeed right that there will be oil in the ground for centuries but....oil in the ground is not like petrol in the tank of your car. Production of oil follows a Bell curve and some indicators suggest that we've reached a peak. After that point it's impossible to increase oil production.

it is possible if prices will skyrocket more, tripple for example. but growth of price will bring down consumption.

it is possible if prices will skyrocket more, tripple for example. but growth of price will bring down consumption.

Other thing more possible is that consumption of petrolium start soon reduce.

I have test driven
http://www.opel-ampera.com/index.php/mas/ampera/how_it_works/erev_voltec

and it got me conviced that hybrid is the smart way to go allready today and even smarter in the future.

I quess even oil companies are pro-active with hybrid cars sales since they can raise up the sales price while they have to sell less petrolium.

LNG trains and cars are comming up too in major way too.

http://www.ngvglobal.com/lng-powered-gt1-locomotive-sets-new-world-record-0914

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine-electric_locomotive

..And the most effective way of using LNG is by fuel cells. .. Nowdays, for fuel cells platinum is no longer needed in fuel cells which means less price for cell units.

LNG is used in cars, ships, trains.. shit everywhere soon. What best you can mix-biogas & naturalgas and make LNG :)

_*__*__*__*__*__*__*__*__*__*__*_

So basically, if we talk longer term future plans:
Railway infra should build via ports where is located LNG containers
Most of railway infra has to be electrified (Car charging & other benefits)

it is possible if prices will skyrocket more, tripple for example. but growth of price will bring down consumption.
It's not about money, it's about energy. If it takes more energy to pump oil, transport it, refine it etc. than you get from actually burning it, the whole thing becomes pointless. There's also the possibility of using other energy sources to support this crooked oil production but that would be an insanity. Oil is, of course, used for many other things as well: plastics, tyres, fertilizers, pesticides etc. But that is beside the point.

Sorry for the off-topic. It kind of shows how complex the issue of a 30-40 year transport policy is...

Sorry for the off-topic. It kind of shows how complex the issue of a 30-40 year transport policy is...

Well I dont think talking of 30-40 future is not off topic. "For the future" is EVERYTHING that Rail Baltica is all about.

I found extra intresting link of LNG use in trains, aviation etc.
-->
http://www.air-lng.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94&Itemid=96&lang=en

Well I dont think talking of 30-40 future is not off topic. "For the future" is EVERYTHING that Rail Baltica is all about.

I found extra intresting link of LNG use in trains, aviation etc.
-->
http://www.air-lng.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94&Itemid=96&lang=en

Speaking about future - I started to think that intercity trolleybus lines could become viable when fuel prices rise. On the traditional trolleybus technology no overtakes are allowed so the capacity should be strictly managed - just like on rail. That would go for coaches and trucks, but not really for private vehicles.

But if one finds a solution how one trolley-car could smoothly overtake another, all road traffic could be electrified.

But if one finds a solution how one trolley-car could smoothly overtake another, all road traffic could be electrified.

Bumper cars :colgate:

But if one finds a solution how one trolley-car could smoothly overtake another, all road traffic could be electrified.

one could use
bombardier's primove technology (http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/sustainability/technology/primove-catenary-free-operation)

It's not about money, it's about energy. If it takes more energy to pump oil, transport it, refine it etc. than you get from actually burning it, the whole thing becomes pointless. There's also the possibility of using other energy sources to support this crooked oil production but that would be an insanity. Oil is, of course, used for many other things as well: plastics, tyres, fertilizers, pesticides etc. But that is beside the point.

Sorry for the off-topic. It kind of shows how complex the issue of a 30-40 year transport policy is...

Yeah exactly. Efficiency of electric engine is lots better than for diesel and lng. And fewer maintenance and longer life make electrics cheaper. Electric is just so simple :P

http://youtu.be/vCSvNyHorgo

The future must be energy independence(so no fossil fuels).
Happily more technologies are coming for public:
http://youtu.be/YS1UkcUalUI
By the way solar cell's are also available for recharging.

But in Baltic's people can't see such a picture as on this clip maid in Stockholm, thanks to their car centric and not sustainable politics.

I wonder why Lithuania doesn`t build it`s part of RB adapted for 160 / 200 kph, instear LG build outdated line for 120 km/h ?

It's because of Baltic's got rail infrastructure in poor condition from CCCR allowing 40, 60 or 80km/h. First goal was and still is to rise the speeds to 120km/h. The plans have been maid to renew all mail lines including Gaiziunai - Siauliai - Sarkiai what now became part of rail baltica.

When Baltic states decide to build rail baltica then we will see 200km/h.

And at moment there are plans to improve parts of other lines for 160km/h such as Vilnius - Kaunas or Tallinn - Tartu.

For 1 train daily investng billions of EUR is worthless.

The distance for HSR is too far for this line.

As Gatis said, Baltic urban centers are too small to invest in HSR and demografic data are not too good. So far Batlic states are inhabited by 6,2 million people diffused on 175 000 sq km, it gives only 35 per sq km.

In polish Silesia Region on 12 300 sq km lives 4,6 mil people, which gives 374 per sq km and many regions in western Europe are even more densly populated. Such regions with connections not exceeding 600 km are suitable for HRS. Only there one can count on proper passenger stream.

If Poland had rail line Gdansk - Bialystok - Warszawa - Wroclaw - Krakow and no direct line Gdansk - Warszawa - Krakow then by now you defenetely would build the direct Gdansk - Warszawa - Krakow line.

It's same for Baltics. There is no normal rail path to EU. The new line will not be HSR so it can accommodate 220km/h intercity + regional + suburban + freight. Then it's not 1 train per day. Of course the alignment must be chosen so that 250km/h is possible.

And at moment it's lot's of cheaper to build when the land is partly empty, no houses on way.

So, what is the current train time Vilnius-Kaunas?
How many trains daily?

What are the plans for upgrading the line to 160 km/h?

So, what is the current train time Vilnius-Kaunas?
How many trains daily?

What are the plans for upgrading the line to 160 km/h?

You can find the schedules here (http://www.litrail.lt/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3h3C2N_VzcPIwMDH3NHAyNTU69gPyd_Q-MQQ_1wkA6zeAMcwNEAIo_DBKdQM7zyIBv8PPJzU_Uj9aPMcakKMjHTjyjLTC3XD9GPdNYvyM4OsvANVAQAIWWx8w!!/dl2/d1/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnB3LzZfRzgzT0VGSDIwMEw3QTAyNTVKU05CTzFCVTY!/).

The fastest time is 1:00 hour with only one stop (Kaišiadorys) and average speed of 104km/h (fastest of any rail routes in the Baltic States). There are 16 pairs of trains a day. Times vary from 1:00 hours with one stop to 1:47 hours with 17 stops and average speed of 58km/h.

Maximum speed is currently limited to 120km/h.

According to this (http://www.litrail.lt/wps/wcm/connect/aed4e0004476afd5a767bf8bf06d7400/2010-2015_investiciniu_projektu_sarasas.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=aed4e0004476afd5a767bf8bf06d7400&CACHEID=aed4e0004476afd5a767bf8bf06d7400&AB%20%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9ELietuvos%20gele%C3%85%C2%BE) document (Lithuanian) the the first stage of the upgrade (Kaunas-Kaišiadorys stretch) is expected in 2013. There is a note that says "project is delayed due to incomplete project preparations".

There is another project related to signalling upgrades needed for 160km/h speeds which is scheduled for 2014.

So I say we're not going to have 160km/h anytime before 2015... and even then the fastest trip will take about 50 minutes saving a whole 10 minutes of our precious time. Still I admit it's much cooler to go at 160km/h than 120km/h. :)

So I say we're not going to have 160km/h anytime before 2015...

http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/staff_muttley.gif

You can find the schedules here (http://www.litrail.lt/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3h3C2N_VzcPIwMDH3NHAyNTU69gPyd_Q-MQQ_1wkA6zeAMcwNEAIo_DBKdQM7zyIBv8PPJzU_Uj9aPMcakKMjHTjyjLTC3XD9GPdNYvyM4OsvANVAQAIWWx8w!!/dl2/d1/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnB3LzZfRzgzT0VGSDIwMEw3QTAyNTVKU05CTzFCVTY!/).

The fastest time is 1:00 hour with only one stop (Kaišiadorys) and average speed of 104km/h (fastest of any rail routes in the Baltic States). There are 16 pairs of trains a day. Times vary from 1:00 hours with one stop
How do you find such a train?
I find no trains faster than 1:13.

So I say we're not going to have 160km/h anytime before 2015... and even then the fastest trip will take about 50 minutes saving a whole 10 minutes of our precious time. Still I admit it's much cooler to go at 160km/h than 120km/h. :)

104 km is also the exact length of Helsinki-Lahti.
By Oikorata. Which is 220 km/h.
The fastest trains ase Sähkömato. With 2 stops - Pasila and Tikkurila.
These take 48 minutes.

How does the current 1:13 of Vilnius-Kaunas trains compare against bus time?

How does the current 1:13 of Vilnius-Kaunas trains compare against bus time?
Mos of trains are actually ~ 1:30. Buses are typically 1:40, the fastest being 1:30. Buses depart about every 15-20 minutes throughout the day, trains have intervals of more than 60 minutes.

Found the 1:00 trains. These only run from Vilnius to Kaunas, not Kaunas-Vilnius.

In the direction Vilnius-Kaunas, I found 11 trains daily between 1:00 and 1:29 and 5 trains between 1:41 and 1:42.

What about 160kmh plans for Estonia and Latvia?

^^
Bit more information about planned works on Western direction railways.

Works will start in this month with geodetic measuring (total of 47km will be measured for following reconstruction works) and continues with overhead wires reconstruction on Klooga - Klooga-Rand line. Works end in 2012 and all Western lines are affected by it.
In early spring of 2012 track reconstruction begins on railways lines West of Keila town. Deadline should be around 2013.

Once all works are completed,all railways West of Keila will have top speeds of 160km/h.

:cheers:
There's proposal of upgrading existing Tallinn-Pärnu railway to 160km/h speeds in some time before 2020 when Rail Baltica,which also runs through Pärnu,becomes operational.
And also it's a publicly known secret that few sections of Tallinn-Tapa-Tartu railway could have 160km/h speeds even now,if there would be small adjustments made.

few sections of Tallinn-Tapa-Tartu railway could have 160km/h speeds even now,if there would be small adjustments made.

Which sections and which adjustments?

^^ The problem is that the Technical Surveillance Authority has not yet set up the requirements for running trains at 160km/h. So it's difficult to tell which adjustments would have to be made but it will quite likely include upgrading level crossings (e.g adding warning lights and barriers) and improving signalling.

^^
I would guess it's the same story everywhere (LT, LV, EE). I.e. track alignment and curvatures could allow 160km/h on all main routes (such as Vilnius-Kaunas, Vilnius-Klaipėda) but level crossings, signalling and perhaps other features are not ready. Some of them are being implemented while some are in design stages or delayed.

I think the main problem is that no rail companies here have experience of operating/upgrading railways at speeds higher than 120km/h hence the lack expertise, know-how and experience. Hiring foreign companies to design 160km/h tracks would be a bit of an embarrassment and would cost too much. Hence they will try to do it themselves even if that means delays.

I think the main problem is that no rail companies here have experience of operating/upgrading railways at speeds higher than 120km/h hence the lack expertise, know-how and experience. Hiring foreign companies to design 160km/h tracks would be a bit of an embarrassment and would cost too much. Hence they will try to do it themselves even if that means delays.

I think there is no problem with hiring other companies, just this type of investment would be useless for freight traffic.

Deutsche Bahn is planning and upgrading Vilnius- Kaunas line ;)

Link? Details?

vilniusguide must have been smoking some weed. ;)

vilniusguide must have been smoking some weed. ;)

Experimenting with LSD :lol::nuts:

Lietuva, kaip ir daugelis Europos šalių, įgyvendina greitesnio, patogesnio susisiekimo tarp miestų programą. Vienas iš tokios programos projektų - ruožo Vilnius-Kaunas geležinkelio rekonstrukcija.

Projektą finansuoja ES Sanglaudos fondas. Modernizavus geležinkelį, traukiniai juo važiuos greičiau ir saugiau, be to, žmonėms bus sukurtos naujos darbo vietos. Geležinkelio rekonstrukcijos projektą AB „Lietuvos geležinkeliai" užsakymu rengia Vokietijos projektuotojai - bendrovė „DB-International GmbH".
http://www.lentvaris.info/naujienos/68-seniunijos/223-lentvaris-tures-garsa-sulaikancias-sienutes

I've not only read it (many times already), but also know the people, who made it, personally. And have been talking about the project. In principle - they made the project look feasible. Simple as that. If we work hard for many years to come, we CAN make it feasible. But - if we want, we could make also financially feasible cosmoport. Everything is possible in this world, it depends what priorities we make.


It won't happen by itself. It needs thorough planning and people here are working at this. Latvia currently is like this:
http://fortnightlitpress.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/knapp01.png?w=480



Are you Gatis dealing with the future Rail baltica route also?

I noticed that there is several ports (http://www.google.fi/imgres?imgurl=http://www.transport.lv/images_upl/dzelzcela_intensitate_zils.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.transport.lv/%3Fsadala%3D211&h=493&w=825&sz=81&tbnid=9ltidBuvRAjKiM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=126&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlatvia%2Brailways%2Bmap%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=latvia+railways+map&docid=4QhApjst_6NkIM&sa=X&ei=0gs8T_SnMe_Z4QT9n_SkBg&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=216) in Latvia north from Riga.

Will the Rail baltica go via these ports?

I am not dealing directly, but am working with related projects, which are coordinated with Rail Baltica plans. Am meeting with people who design it and discussing the project - and am considering how to take part in future tenders.

To avoid the land speculations, over the last weeks there has taken place a swift and rather covert reservation of lands along the most probable Rail Baltica route. Meanwhile experts are preparing tender rules for the next round of design works, which have to start in this year. Our National Development Plan is under preparation, it is planned that this would be a great issue there as well.
- - -
These ports north from Riga (Skulte and Salacgriva) are small ports of local importance. Of course, the decision to implement "Rail Baltica" forces us to think big. One option would be to change one of these ports (most likely - Skulte) and turn it into major port. But more feasible seems to be development of convenient transport system which includes our existing big ports.

Very likely is establishment of additional cargo terminal in Iecava (my idea, khe khe), at least it will be considered.

I am not dealing directly, but am working with related projects, which are coordinated with Rail Baltica plans. Am meeting with people who design it and discussing the project - and am considering how to take part in future tenders.

To avoid the land speculations, over the last weeks there has taken place a swift and rather covert reservation of lands along the most probable Rail Baltica route. Meanwhile experts are preparing tender rules for the next round of design works, which have to start in this year. Our National Development Plan is under preparation, it is planned that this would be a great issue there as well.
- - -
These ports north from Riga (Skulte and Salacgriva) are small ports of local importance. Of course, the decision to implement "Rail Baltica" forces us to think big. One option would be to change one of these ports (most likely - Skulte) and turn it into major port. But more feasible seems to be development of convenient transport system which includes our existing big ports.

Very likely is establishment of additional cargo terminal in Iecava (my idea, khe khe), at least it will be considered.

It seems that Ainazi, Skulete and Salacriva are exactly on Pärnu-Riga route http://www.worldportsource.com/ports/LVA.php so Rail Baltica will most propably boost up those ports operations.

What the port of Riga is by the way extually operating? I mean at least in Helsinki the trend is that most of the port and cargo operations are slowly going outside the city. Into Port of Vuosaari.

http://www.worldportsource.com/ports/FIN.php

Soo, I quess in long term future Port of Riga start to move outside centrum?

And if Rail Baltica is suppose to be 250km/h is it not some sort of safety hazard that there is super fast train moving in the mid-centrum?

And how Latvia is reacting into IMO ship fuel regulation? I quess LNG is in a way connected even into rail baltica :)

What the port of Riga is by the way extually operating? I mean at least in Helsinki the trend is that most of the port and cargo operations are slowly going outside the city. Into Port of Vuosaari.
Helsinki has absolutely different coastal geography and geology. In Riga the estuary of Daugava is very convenient and building something artificial elsewhere would cost billions and would be constantly silted up with coastal streams. Our smaller ports are struggling with this constantly - f.e. Lielupe port gave up this fight, some more are considering this.
Soo, I quess in long term future Port of Riga start to move outside centrum?
Development plans of Riga and development plans of port envisage movement away from the centre of Riga towards the sea. There is plenty of unused space. Lots of activities are ongoing in this direction, I am currently working at one of these.
It seems that Ainazi, Skulete and Salacriva are exactly on Pärnu-Riga route http://www.worldportsource.com/ports/LVA.php so Rail Baltica will most propably boost up those ports operations.
Most likely not - because there are not planned any cargo terminals at these ports.
And if Rail Baltica is suppose to be 250km/h is it not some sort of safety hazard that there is super fast train moving in the mid-centrum?
Rail Baltica is going far to the east from Riga. It runs through sparsely inhabited areas.
If we would make it through Riga, that would be nonsense. Either it should be placed in tunnel (and thus excluded possibilities for proper freight terminals), or it would be slow and make Rail Baltica senseless. And the costs to make it through Riga... oh my gosh, many billions.
And how Latvia is reacting into IMO ship fuel regulation?
Thus far - only positive reaction from our authorities. Haven't heard anyone else saying smth about this.

Rail Baltica is going far to the east from Riga. It runs through sparsely inhabited areas.
If we would make it through Riga, that would be nonsense. Either it should be placed in tunnel (and thus excluded possibilities for proper freight terminals), or it would be slow and make Rail Baltica senseless. And the costs to make it through Riga... oh my gosh, many billions..

So... That will mean any passenger traffic on RB will only remain a dream in the heads of the Baltic nations, used by the governments gain public support without even a sightiest intetion to facilitate passenger trains on the route??

I know that cargo has always been the main reason of building RB, but the common people still see a high-speed train Tallinn-Warsaw in in their minds when someone talks about RB :bash:

So... That will mean any passenger traffic on RB will only remain a dream in the heads of the Baltic nations, used by the governments gain public support without even a sightiest intetion to facilitate passenger trains on the route??

I know that cargo has always been the main reason of building RB, but the common people still see a high-speed train Tallinn-Warsaw in in their minds when someone talks about RB :bash:

even though i agree its a huge shame it cant go through riga center, I still think that it shouldnt have a very big impact on the number of travellers...
remember, the train is going to berlin, not Ogre. When flying to london you dont mind going to the airport, do you?

Or I dont know, this worries me quite a bit.
If not for the center to center travel, why choose train over flying?

To avoid the land speculations, over the last weeks there has taken place a swift and rather covert reservation of lands along the most probable Rail Baltica route. Meanwhile experts are preparing tender rules for the next round of design works, which have to start in this year. Our National Development Plan is under preparation, it is planned that this would be a great issue there as well.


I quess the actual design of the actual route is gonna be pretty intresting, since at the same area is located

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Baltica

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Baltica

that all three will in future developed futher. I quess for finns Baltik Konnetor is the most important since we are more or less dedicated into LNG in future
for example Viking line has ordered LNG passenger ships -> http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Newbuilding

Port of Hanko will construct LNG terminal, and even Naantali refinery will in future process LNG from natural gas http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naantalin_jalostamo

..But for that Finns need Baltik Konnektor to ensure energy supply..

I quess Port of Riga cannot handle LNG because of explosion safety zones. At least that is the reason why LNG will be handeled outside Hanko centrum.

Hmm.. And I bet LNG is gonna be big business in Latvia since you guys have that huge natural gas cave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle

So for me all stuff you guys do at south will have inpact into local economy up here in north :O).

But the way I see it that LNG will replace in the future diesel fuel. It is good because one can mix natural gas and biogas and make from the mix LNG. Less methane gasses in air mean less greenhouse effect.

..And in a way LNG economy is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_oxide_fuel_cell can process LNG internally into hydrogen.

In a way I see everything is connected into everything. So trying to seeing the future is quite complex really. ..But i quess everyone agree that things will not remain same for decades.

Or I dont know, this worries me quite a bit.
If not for the center to center travel, why choose train over flying?

Exactly! And dont forget that Riga is the biggest city in Baltics, and therefore the biggest number of potetial travellers, not to mention that it would probably be the main destination for travellers from other Baltic cities.

Even if the train will go to Berlin, it will most likely not be able to compete with flying from Tallinn or Riga (depending on the speed, of course). From Kaunas, probably it can compete. However, it would surely be the transport of choice between the Baltic cities, if it is centre to centre.

I quess Port of Riga cannot handle LNG because of explosion safety zones. At least that is the reason why LNG will be handeled outside Hanko centrum.
Hmm.. And I bet LNG is gonna be big business in Latvia since you guys have that huge natural gas cave.

We got several caves...

LNG definitely would be built in Riga if not... the Russian majority in Riga, who represent a classical "fifth column". If something here would harm Russian business interests, they will reject it, even if it harms Latvian economy.
Riga Development plan envisages a building of enormous LNG terminal - and it should be pretty safe place - but municipal Pro-Russian party is doing anything to prevent it. Happily the government is step by step taking over the control in Riga Port, although success is not warranted yet.

http://www.financenet.lv/zinas/384080-par_lng_buvniecibai_atbilstosako_vietu_atzist_rigu

even though i agree its a huge shame it cant go through riga center, I still think that it shouldnt have a very big impact on the number of travellers...
remember, the train is going to berlin, not Ogre. When flying to london you dont mind going to the airport, do you?

Passenger train of Rail Baltica will enter Riga Central Station through a branch from the main route. Of course, in Riga it will be slower, may be some 160 km/h.
Cargo trains will go directly, without entering Riga City.

I am proposing to extend this branch to airport and Jurmala - but may be this is just a case of logistics and everything can stay as it is.

We got several caves...

LNG definitely would be built in Riga if not... the Russian majority in Riga, who represent a classical "fifth column". If something here would harm Russian business interests, they will reject it, even if it harms Latvian economy.
Riga Development plan envisages a building of enormous LNG terminal - and it should be pretty safe place - but municipal Pro-Russian party is doing anything to prevent it. Happily the government is step by step taking over the control in Riga Port, although success is not warranted yet.

http://www.financenet.lv/zinas/384080-par_lng_buvniecibai_atbilstosako_vietu_atzist_rigu


Passenger train of Rail Baltica will enter Riga Central Station through a branch from the main route. Of course, in Riga it will be slower, may be some 160 km/h.
Cargo trains will go directly, without entering Riga City.

I am proposing to extend this branch to airport and Jurmala - but may be this is just a case of logistics and everything can stay as it is.

oh. then its fine :)

i remember travelling from Munich to Berlin on an ICE. One stopover, I think it was Leipzig, was in a terminus station. So I dont see a problem with doing something similar in Riga C.

Tender for the E-75 Warsaw - Tłuszcz - Sadowne (first 70 km of Rail Baltica from Warszawa towards Białystok, modernisation to 160 / 200 km/h)

full list of offers:

Prices in PLN (1 EUR = 4,2 PLN)

Means the Contractor
net: 2 208 231 117.11 PLN
gross: 2 716 124 274.05 PLN

in sequence
place-name of the bidder, the offer net/gross- [%] of Means the Contractor-[%] evaluation of offers (100% - best)

1 PORR PNiUIK Krakow Poland + + BUDUS SA -1 194 191 924.73 / 1 468 856 067.42 - 54.1% - 100%
2 Mostostal Acciona Infrastructure SA + + Tor-Karson Elblag 000.00 -1 206 000/1 483 380 000.00 - 54.6% - 101%
Astaldi 3 -1 235 835 914.21 / 1 520 078 174.48 - 56.0% - 103%
4 Torpol + + Polimex INTERCOR SA - 1 298 759 327.35 / 1 597 473 972.64 - 58.8% - 109%
5 Feroco SA + + Viamonte DSPAS Strabag - 1 387 318 829.05 / 1 706 402 159.73 - 62.8% - 116%
6 Salcef Salcef Poland Costruzioni + SA + + Mixbud Gotowski Sp. of o.o. - 1 395 136 360.64 / 1 716 017 723.59 - 63.2% - 117%
7 Traction - Tiltra S.A. + + PPMT Power Engineering SA - 1 468 393 523.00 / 1 806 124 033.29 - 66.5% - 123%
8 Budimex SA Warsaw + Warsaw PNI - 1 775 947 481.39 / 2 184 415 402.11 - 80.4% - 149%
9 ZUE PRK Kraków Kraków + + + KZA Bilfinger Berger Krakow - 1 849 617 638.00 / 2 275 029 694.74 - 83.8% - 155%


term of the contract - 36 months from the date of signature

Belarus, Poland agree to develop high-speed rail traffic 20.02.2012 16:27

MINSK, 20 February (BelTA) – Belarus and Poland have agreed to develop high-speed rail passenger transportation, BelTA learnt from the press service of the Belarusian Railways.

The routine of international passenger and cargo transportation was discussed at the recent meeting between head of the Belarusian Railways Anatoly Sivak and Chairman of the Board of the Polish Railways Zgibniew Szafranski in Minsk.

“The executives of the railway administrations considered the prospects of developing high-speed traffic between Belarus and Poland as part of the 2nd Pan-European Transport Corridor,” the press service said.

The Belarusian Railways attaches great attention to boosting export freight traffic via Belarusian-Polish border crossings. Last year the export of domestic freight to the EU increased by 18.1% as from 2010.

The sides talked over further development of border railway infrastructure. “Anatoly Sivak and Zgibniew Szafranski have agreed to set up a joint taskforce to study a possibility of holding an international conference with the participation of transport, logistics and shipping companies,” the press service added.

http://news.belta.by/en/news/econom?id=674819

^^

Rail Baltica section Warszawa - Białystok will serve also for PL / BY rail traffic on Warszawa - Grodno route. So two birds will be killed with one stone.:)

That's good news, but with the connection between Vilnius and Warsaw it's still a disgrace that it's impossible to get there in one train, if only Belarussians weren't so strict, it would be possible to do a train service from these cities like Russians do through Lithuania to Konigsberg, it's such a sad view to see that we do have the necessary infrastructure, but due to stupid political issues we can't use it.

Yes, but if the border crossing at Šestokai were improved, some Warszaw-Kaunas trains could turn to Riga and others to Vilnius.

^^

Lithuanian Railwas has recently liquidated direct train Sestokai - Vilnius, so if one comes from Poland with Warszawa - Sestokai direct train has to change 2 trains in Lithuania. Earlier there was direct train to Vilnius waiting for train from Warszawa.

Yes, but if the border crossing at Šestokai were improved, some Warszaw-Kaunas trains could turn to Riga and others to Vilnius.

It could be done, but the straightening of curves and signalling improvements will certainly cost higher, that renovating the direct railway line, and besides that it still would take faster to get to Warsaw on the original track, than going through Kaunas :)

I have noticed from the Internet news that BASICALLY Rail Baltica Growth Corridor political discussions are comming reality!! I quess now they really start to build RBGC Russia??!!

Since Rail Baltica will be 25kV it means that the news from Tallin-Narva-St. Petersbug railway infra will be also 25kV. It is part of RGBC-Russia project after all.

This means that soon it will be possible to travel with same train and technology from Berlin to St.Petersburg.

http://www.rbgc.eu/rbgc-russia/contents.html

LATVIA is already decided to get rid off all the DC infra and switch into AC. More project planning will be informed 2012 October. Actual construction work will start 2015. Project will benefit greatly freight transportation and as side benefit passenger traffic and Rail Baltica project!

Railway electrification project of Latvia (AC infra)

http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl=fi&sl=lv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ldz.lv%2F%3Fobject_id%3D4877

http://www.ldz.lv/?object_id=4877

Speaking of the next MAJOR electrification project ->

World Cup could bring between Tallinn and St. Petersburg high-speed electric 11/01/2012

http://sport.err.ee/jalgpall/480943ca-94b0-4fa6-9476-af6447f26321

http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl=fi&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.err.ee%2Fjalgpall%2F480943ca-94b0-4fa6-9476-af6447f26321

World Cup could bring between Tallinn and St. Petersburg high-speed electric 11. jaanuar 2012

http://www.epl.ee/news/eesti/article.php?id=63758574

http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl=fi&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.epl.ee%2Fnews%2Feesti%2Farticle.php%3Fid%3D63758574

Russian Railways to let the train mundialyu Petersburg-Tallinn
29.09.2011 15:36

http://www.fontanka.ru/2011/09/29/097/

http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl=fi&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fontanka.ru%2F2011%2F09%2F29%2F097%2F

Russians would like to launch Tallinn-St Petersburg train route by football world championships

http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/transport/?doc=46582

17. jaanuar 2012 01:10 Lets explore Tallinn-Tartu Buchanan-Riga train movements to improve profitability

http://www.epl.ee/news/majandus/parts-laseb-uurida-tallinna-tartu-riia-rongiliikluse-tasuvust.d?id=63783938

Lets explore Tallinn-Tartu Buchanan-Riga train movements to improve profitability 17 January 2012

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=et&to=en&a=http://www.epl.ee/news/majandus/parts-laseb-uurida-tallinna-tartu-riia-rongiliikluse-tasuvust.d?id=63783938

Poland will officially join Rail Baltica preparation works.

In a Baltic transportation ministers meeting in Brussels today ministers asked Poland to join Rail Baltica preparation works. Estonian minister of economic affairs & communications Juhan Parts said that Rail Baltica exits regional status only when possible to get beyond Lithuanian border and expressed his satisfaction that Polish transportation minister Slawomir Nowak has confirmed Poland's readiness to reconstruct railways between Warsaw & Lithuanian border by 2020.

Source: http://logistikauudised.ee/article/2012/3/22/poola-kutsuti-uhinema-rail-balticu-raudteega

This isn't directly tied to Rail Baltica,but it should be interesting...
Estimates on transportation growth in next 20 years in Baltic Sea region based on various surveys:
Freight transportation by sea: +30%
Container transportation: +140%
Number of train passengers: +100%
Number of airplane passengers: +80%
Car transportation: up to +100%

Source: http://logistikauudised.ee/article/2012/3/22/parts-el-peab-investeeringute-jagamisel-arvestama-liikmesriikide-erinevusi

Before someone starts ranting that it ain't possible,think 20 years back and how much transportation sectors have grown since then ;)

^^ I wonder what that "reconstruction" means...If it's anything less than a 160km/h, Rail Baltica would still practically end at the Polish border.

^^ I wonder what that "reconstruction" means...If it's anything less than a 160km/h, Rail Baltica would still practically end at the Polish border.

Means rebuilding this line up to 160 km/h with elements of 200 km/h (200 km/h needs no collision tracks crossing).

So far Lithuania is modernising it`s part of the line to 120 km/h...

First tender for Warsaw - Sadowne section (lenght over 60 km) has been announced some time ago. Realistic time to upgrade this line on polish side is 2025 - 2030. There are many more important lines in Poland that have priority over RB.

Before someone starts ranting that it ain't possible,think 20 years back and how much transportation sectors have grown since then ;)

6 - 8 million tons of cargo were handled at the port of Klaipėda in the 80s, last year- more than 36 mio. :lol::nuts:

^^ Or, another great example: in 1990, 144 million passengers were carried by trains in Latvia, last year- barely 20 million.

^^ Or, another great example: in 1990, 144 million passengers were carried by trains in Latvia, last year- barely 20 million.

It is because most lines were cut off. There are even no Riga - Vilnius line, not to mention small branches, that were closed. Huge shame :(
Vilnians or šiaulians must go by bus to Riga now. How many millions of them? ;)
Also many millions travel by personal vehicles, but following EU program, we must develop public means of transportation.

Hi everybody!

There was one great logistic seminar at Tartu a while ago. See the presentation links below ->

http://www.logistikaseminar.ee/

http://www.logistikaseminar.ee/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Tapaninen040412.pdf

http://www.logistikaseminar.ee/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kaur_Lass_Rail_Baltica_is_more_then_railroad.pdf


http://www.transit.ee/mod_news_4c56ff4ce4aaf9573aa5dff913df997a_Logistics-Seminar-2012--Rail-Baltica_eng

It seems that force measures can be taken in order to ensure rail freight flows ->

http://www.parnupostimees.ee/804768/lati-raudteejuht-pakub-rail-baltica-paastmiseks-maanteevedude-keelustamist/

Other intresting news is that this news descripes in detail Rail Baltica phases.
..I quess 2012 phase 1 will be completed. 2013 Phase 2 starts.

http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/arvamus/vilja-savisaar-toomast-miks-rail-baltica-on-parem-mulgi-raudteest.d?id=64214919

Phase 1 120km/h
Phase 2 160km/h
Please note 160Km/h is only reasonable with AC network (regenerative braking etc. )
Phase 3 220Km/h

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/30908/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBalticTimes+%28News+from+Estonia%2C+Latvia+and+Lithuania.+The+Baltic+Times.%29

http://www.logistikauudised.ee/?PublicationId=5d353bf2-398a-4f66-a0a8-5fed2b6e07f6&ref=rss

INTRESTING NEWS!!!

Polis Eastern railway are have more and more reasons for development. --> directions Moscow + Rail Baltica

Belarus is ordering 50 trains more for 2014 ice hockey tournament!

http://www.newsfiber.com/psp/eng/search?q=&r=10&p=s&c=2&i=1&e=0&b=3&a=0&n=&y=&se=&v=E5V0nZ7J265A%3D+rDKlbFD2KDE%3D

http://news.21.by/economics/2012/04/09/500764.html

Also the Belarus electrification is proceeding as planned!

http://forum.railwayz.info/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4&sid=4e35feb2e65f735f3bf13f5df5de96a5&start=775

http://xpress.by/content/pdf/27-07.04.2012.pdf

http://zhlobin.gomel-region.by/ru/news/district?id=11117

http://komkur.info/gorodskaja-zhizn/v-ozhidanii--elektrichki/

http://forum.railwayz.info/download/file.php?id=625&mode=view

http://forum.railwayz.info/download/file.php?id=626&mode=view

I quess Latvia and Estonia will soon have also small yellow men (Chianese) building rail AC network :))

Go Lukashenko, go go, Lukashenko be good! http://www.fullfreestuff.com/free-graphics/downloads/animation/Flags/animated%20belarus%20flag.gif

St. Petersburg-Daugavpils-Grodno-Bialystok-Warszawa once dictator go away... Could it also be Rail Baltica or Pol-Balt-Rus-Finnica? :D

Estonian Rail Baltica route planning begins.

Estonian government approved regional minister Siim Kiisler's proposal for starting county planning for Rail Baltica route. This planning involves Harju,Rapla & Pärnu counties in Estonia.
Regional minister predicts this process to be very difficult,as many land ownership & environmental problems have to be solved.
Only certain things at the moment are - stations will be in Tallinn (central train station)-Tallinn (Ülemiste)-Pärnu-Riga (central train station)-Panevėžys-Kaunas (Palemonas). Service stations will be in Rapla,Riga and Jonava.
Rail Baltica line will be fenced off from surrounding areas on whole lenght.
Whole line will be planned as straight as possible and with minimal number of curves,this means construction of new bridges & viaducts.

Sources: http://www.ehitusuudised.ee//default.aspx?publicationid=1E393755-1475-4B5C-A0A2-EC89826177DA
http://www.e24.ee/805056/rail-baltic-tahendab-piirete-vahele-jaavat-kiirraudteed/

Here is couple of more news article of 50 Stadler train order plan of Belarus.

http://govorim.by/novosti-belarusi/45964-belarus-hochet-kupit-esche-50-poezdov-stadler.html

http://talks.su/news/v_belarusi_postroyat_vysokoskorostnuyu_zheleznuyu_dorogu_do_moskvy/

http://www.megapressa.ru/belarus-xochet-postroit-vysokoskorostnuyu-zhd-dorogu-do-moskvy.html

http://www.worldsay.ru/economika/154058-Belarus-hochet-postroit-visokoskorostnuyu-zhd-dorogu-do-Moskvi.html

http://dengi.onliner.by/2012/04/09/stadler

http://www.bravica.su/belarus/minsk.htm


Translating of web pages- >
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx

http://translate.google.com/#

..I quess trains will be build at Belarus. At http://bkm.by/ premises.

NOTE: In the news there is mention of tальго
http://www.talgo.com/index.php/es/home.php

I quess Belarus will have soon hyper speed train fleet operating Vilnus-Minsk-Kiev or someting :D.

BUT is timetable 2014 for 200km/h train Minsk-Kiev too optimistic in "Белжелдорпроект"?
http://www.brrp.by/

Only certain things at the moment are - stations will be in Tallinn (central train station)-Tallinn (Ülemiste)-Pärnu-Riga (central train station)-Panevėžys-Kaunas (Palemonas). Service stations will be in Rapla,Riga and Jonava.


That would be tragic location, to say at least... :ohno:

That would be tragic location, to say at least... :ohno:
Is it that bad? News said Palemonas would connect both Kaunas city centre & Kaunas airport to Rail Baltica.

Palemonas is industrial quarter, 12-14 km from Kaunas Centre. Inconvenient location for the passengers.

Palemonas is industrial quarter, 12-14 km from Kaunas Centre. Inconvenient location for the passengers.

Palemonas is in the middle of Lithuania if they would build the airport into a new international terminal together with the RB terminal and high-speed train connestions to Kaunas city (10min) and Vilnius city (30 min) then i think it could work well as a transport hub for the whole country.

Otherwise, I share your opinion.

Okay the High-speed train game has starter. Does the following news mean that Rail Baltica will be also a TALGO train??

News from Baltic-rus region ->


TRANSLATED

After Ming w / w station will train new Talgo. But how? 12.4.2012


TRANSALATED (http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl=fi&sl=ru&u=http://www.interfax.by/article/90120&ei=a36JT9qWGeaI4gTw29WLCg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.interfax.by/article/90120%26hl%3Dfi%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Djhj%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:fi:official%26prmd%3Dimvns)

http://www.interfax.by/article/90120

In the news is said that Talgo related high-speed train procurement will start 2013!

I also once more found article from Helsinki-Tallin rail tunnel... Seems someone have not taken their pills again. Even kid undestand that highspeed rail on land is the TOP-PRIORITY. Not tunnel that cost more than BILLION EUR!

http://baltirail.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/hki-tna-kaksoiskaupunki-suomenlahtitunneli-ja-baltian-rata.pdf

^^ € 1 billion is seriously underestimated. A more realistic price is € 3 billion.
BTW, the estimated price for Rail Baltic is € 3.7 billion.

^^ € 1 billion is seriously underestimated. A more realistic price is € 3 billion.
BTW, the estimated price for Rail Baltic is € 3.7 billion.

3 blilion EUR for such tunnel is also much underestimated. 10 - 12 bill EUR is closer amount of cost of such project.:)

One day, somewhere around ~2450 AD, when Helsinki will be of a London size and importance and Tallinn as important and as big metropolis as Paris, this tunnel will be build, I believe. :)
If there was trains in 2450 :)

3 blilion EUR for such tunnel is also much underestimated. 10 - 12 bill EUR is closer amount of cost of such project.:)
Tallinn-Helsinki tunnel would be a lot cheaper per km than the Channel tunnel because Tal-Hel tunnel would be bored/blasted through granite which is quite easy to tunnel through.

I think that those persons who talk about Helsinki-Tallin tunnel have tunnel between their 2-ears.

If some EU money is available for regional train infra development best to put it all (at this moment) to develop Baltic area railway infra and electrification.

When all major lines are 220km/h or even 250km/h tunnel discussion is more realistic.

^^ No doubt Tallinn-Helsinki tunnel is not a realistic option in the near future but one can still talk about it.

^^ No doubt Tallinn-Helsinki tunnel is not a realistic option in the near future but one can still talk about it.

Better to save spit in the mouth for something more realistic and beneficial thing like AC electrification of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania :lol:.

How much of electfied line could be made with the price of tunnel? What would be the average travelling speed..

..I mean the Phase II, speed and technology finansing will be one tough nut to crack in RB (see couple of post earlier)


BTW Latvia has announced that Rail Baltica is now their top project!

-->

Eiropas Komisiju rosinās „Rail Baltica” infrastruktūrā ciešāk integrēt Rīgu 16.04.2012

http://www.es.gov.lv/news/eiropas-komisiju-rosinas-rail-baltica-infrastruktura-ciesak-integret-rigu

Better to save spit in the mouth for something more realistic and beneficial thing like AC electrification of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania :lol:.

How much of electfied line could be made with the price of tunnel? What would be the average travelling speed..


Lithuania already has AC electrification on Vilnius-Kaunas. Does Lithuania have any plans to electrify 1520 mm Kaunas-Šiauliai?

Lithuania already has AC electrification on Vilnius-Kaunas. Does Lithuania have any plans to electrify 1520 mm Kaunas-Šiauliai?

Yes, this is very good question. I am intrested to know how AC-fication is proceeding in Lithuania. I have read that at the border of Belarus (Gudokay) is build AC infra.

..What else is going on? I quess // asume that the next thing would be to build AC infra all the way to sea shore into some port city. ..Reason is that AC improves logistic costs. ..Palanga and Klaipeda directions are next after Gudokay..?

-->Molodecheno-Gudoraj-Gosgranica-Kyana-N.Vilna

http://www.rw.by/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=365:belarusian-railway-and-lithuanian-railways-continue-to-develop-high-speed-passenger-transportation-between-minsk-and-vilnus-&catid=37:2009-12-01-16-52-11&Itemid=84


I did found some article of Corridor IXB, IXD development 2025.

Till 2025:
– to build a European-standard railway line from Kaunas to the Lithuanian-Latvian border;
– to carry out the electrification of the Kaišiadorys-Klaipėda railway line (transport corridor IX).

http://www.portofklaipeda.lt/en.php/port_of_klaipda/4797

http://www.suli.fi/seminars/Sinkevicius_Lithuanian_railways.pdf

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=liettua&hl=fi&ll=55.584555,22.120972&spn=1.543017,4.493408&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.587666,71.894531&hnear=Liettua&t=m&z=8

I quess 2025 is too long time.. Plus Šiauliai will be the next to be electrified since it is on the way of Rail Baltica AND TWO transport Corridors --> IXB, IXD

Vilnius-Minsk railway track to be upgraded by 2015 18.04.2012 18:51

GRODNO, 18 April (BelTA) – The upgrade of the railway track for the Vilnius-Minsk high-speed train will be completed by 2015, Deputy General Director of Lithuanian Railways Albertas Simenas said at the 8th International Belarus-Lithuania Forum and the 3rd International Belarus-Finland Forum in Grodno, BelTA has learnt.

The international project to operate a Vilnius-Minsk high-speed passenger train started in 2010. A joint task group was set up; the project was upheld by the government. The new service will make a journey faster and more comfortable; the travelling time will reduce from 4.5 hours to 2 hours.

The first stage of the project was completed in summer last year. By involving customer, border and control services into the project, the travelling time was reduced to 3 hours. The passenger turnover doubled. Now about 300 people travel by this train on weekdays and up to 500 people on weekends.

New forms of border controls will be introduced and new rolling stock will be bought. Lithuania is going to use a new control system where all the control procedures will be administered right at the railway station. In 2013 the travelling time is expected to be reduced by another 30 minutes. Belarus will complete border and other controls either at the railway station or on the way.

http://news.belta.by/en/news/society?id=679771

"High-speed". :D
I guess we'll be very lucky if it will go at 160km/h max. speed. But even that i somehow find a bit hard to believe.

Also, 2 hours for a distance of 193km means average speed of 96.5km/h which is slower than some currently running Vilnius-Kaunas services which go at an average speed of 104km/h.

Intresting, Rail Baltica freigh related tender going on at Lithuania

-->

If you see the places mentioned (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Kretinga&daddr=k%C5%ABlup%C4%97nai+to:Plung%C4%97,+Tel%C5%A1iain+l%C3%A4%C3%A4ni,+Liettua+to:%C5%A0ateikiai,+Plung%C4%97,+Tel%C5%A1i%C5%B3+apskritis,+Lietuva+to:Tel%C5%A1iai,+Tel%C5%A1iain+l%C3%A4%C3%A4ni,+Liettua+to:D%C5%ABseikiai,+Tel%C5%A1iai,+Tel%C5%A1i%C5%B3+apskritis,+Lietuva&hl=fi&ie=UTF8&ll=55.590763,22.774658&spn=3.085739,8.986816&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.587666,71.894531&oq=D%C5%ABseikiai&mra=ls&t=m&z=7) in the tender in is exactly on top of transport corridor IA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_corridors)
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/baltic-states/baltic-states.gif

Invitation to tender 2012-03-07

The technical upgrading of railway infrastructure is one of the priorities aiming at the integration into the transport networks of the European Union (EU), offering value-added services for the forwarders and other users of freight transportation services as well as for passengers.

Hereby we inform that JSC Lithuanian Railways are intending to launch open tenders for the construction works for the implementation of the following projects: Construction of second track on section Kūlupėnai – Kretinga, Construction of second track on section Plungė – Šateikiai, Construction of second track on section Telšiai – Dūseikiai, Construction of second track on section Pavenčiai – Raudėnai in April 2012. The co-financing of the projects from the EU grant assistance is envisaged.

The implementation of the above projects would ensure the growth of Lithuanian economy, safer train traffic, compliance with the environmental requirements as well as satisfy the development needs of Lithuanian railway infrastructure.

Construction of second track on section Pavenčiai – Raudėnai: the project involves the construction of a new track (~6 km), rehabilitation of a platform and a level crossing, installation of new turnouts, rehabilitation of culverts, rehabilitation/construction of rainwater and drainage systems, installation of noise control measures, installation of a block post, rehabilitation/installation of telecommunication, power supply, signaling and interlocking systems, installation of point heating systems, etc.

Construction of second track on section Kūlupėnai – Kretinga: the project involves the construction of a new track (~11 km), installation of new turnouts, rehabilitation of platforms and level crossings, conversion of concrete culverts and bridges into corrugated metal culverts, installation of a new culvert of corrugated metal, rehabilitation/construction of rainwater and drainage systems, installation of noise control measures, installation of a block post, rehabilitation/installation of telecommunication, power supply, signaling and interlocking systems, installation of point heating systems, etc.

Construction of second track on section Telšiai – Dūseikiai the project involves the construction of a new track (~5.4 km), installation of new turnouts, rehabilitation of a level crossing, installation of a block post, rehabilitation of culverts, installation of noise control measures, rehabilitation/installation of telecommunication, power supply, signaling and interlocking systems, installation of point heating systems, etc.

Construction of second track on section Plungė – Šateikiai: the project involves the construction of a new track (~20 km), installation of new turnouts, rehabilitation of platforms and level crossings, conversion of concrete culverts and bridges into corrugated metal culverts, installation of new culverts, rehabilitation/construction of rainwater and drainage systems, installation of noise control measures, rehabilitation/installation of telecommunication, power supply, signaling and interlocking systems, installation of point heating systems, etc.

The draft technical specifications of the above projects will be published on the Central Portal of Public Procurement (www.cvpp.lt) and on the website of JSC Lithuanian Railways (www.litrail.lt), information on tender launching will be published in the information supplement to the official gazette Valstybės Žinios and on the website of JSC Lithuanian Railways (www.litrail.lt), and the public procurement notices will be published in the Supplement to the Official Journal of the European Union (http://ted.europa.eu) and on the Central Portal of Public Procurement (www.cvpp.lt).

http://www.litrail.lt/ (http://www.litrail.lt/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3h3C2N_VzcPIwMDH3NHAyNTU69gPyd_Q-MQQ_1wkA6zeAMcwNFA388jPzdVvyA7rxwADztqiA!!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!/)

"High-speed". :D
I guess we'll be very lucky if it will go at 160km/h max. speed. But even that i somehow find a bit hard to believe.

Also, 2 hours for a distance of 193km means average speed of 96.5km/h which is slower than some currently running Vilnius-Kaunas services which go at an average speed of 104km/h.

yes, but is great improvment comparing to current service, it may bring capitals closer :)

yes, but is great improvment comparing to current service, it may bring capitals closer :)

Certainly so. Especially since Belorussians are now making up the largest share of foreign tourists in Lithuania and growth numbers remain overwhelmingly positive. Many luxury cars in Vilnius and other places have BY number plates giving a good indication who is coming to Lithuania from Belarus and for what purpose (usually for shopping of quality goods and, especially quality services). Just a few years ago that would have sounded like a joke. Even right now Vilnius is best connected to Minsk in terms of physical transportation links (road and, especially, rail) of all neighboring capitals. If that can improve even further then it's beneficial for everyone. If that happens all we need is to ease or abolish visa regime.

P.S. E.g. During the first weekend of November 2011 more than 10 000 Belarussians came to "Ozas" shopping centre alone! :runaway:
Fifteen ordered buses and some thousands cars. :nuts:
Every Belarussian that weekend spent 300 euros on average.
http://www.veidas.lt/baltarusiai-tapo-aukso-gysla-lietuvos-prekybininkams
They spend more than billion euro per year in Vilnius shopping centres. This is sick :lol::nuts:
Up to thousand Belarussians every day come to Gariūnai market (http://vilnews.com/?p=1109) - one of the largest in Europe, also.

During a weekday around 500 people come to Vilnius from Minsk by train, according to Litrail.lt.

The Germans took to the electrification of its tracks to Poland

It is hard to believe, it is now easier to take a train to the Czech Republic and to the East than in Germany. Over the years, both our turn, and the German did not invest in the track to the border. There is a lack of convenient, electrified connections. On most lines run internal combustion engines.

From Szczecin to Berlin route is only 100 kilometers, the train drags on until two hours. And from Wroclaw to Berlin, the journey takes six hours, which is two times longer than before World War II!

Polish infrastructure ministers complained that the German railways are not interested in the modernization of the Polish route. Address the matter of the highest factors. The construction of double track, electrified routes to the Polish border, called the German parliament. The matter was discussed, in June last year meeting in Warsaw on Polish and German governments. After the summit there are views that if we talk to the Germans on the tracks (as opposed to injustice and reconciliation War II), a sign that we have come to normal, neighborly relations.

The German railways announced that this year will begin upgrading 50 km of the route from Berlin and Dresden to Wroclaw, the Polish side which connects to Węgliiec. The creation of a second track, electric traction and noise barriers. By the way, will be renovated at the border, destroyed the bridge over the Nysa.

On the Polish side of the route to Wroclaw is already upgraded. After finishing work, for four years of passenger trains through here they galloped off up to 160 km per hour. (Now go only warehouses), and will shorten travel time by half.

Merkel also promised to modernize another route from Berlin to Szczecin. There is a chance that here in four years trip will be shortened to 90 minutes.

Is the matter of track are so important that it had to be discussed until the prime ministers? Janusz Reiter, former Polish Ambassador to Germany: - Contrary to appearances, the infrastructure issue is political. Fast connections between our countries affected ordinary citizens, economy. It disappears in the division into East and West. Not only in our heads, but also at the border. It's good for our security, fuses with the Germans.

http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,106928,11592398,Angela_Merkel_przylacza_Polske.html

From Szczecin to Berlin route is only 100 kilometers, the train drags on until two hours. And from Wroclaw to Berlin, the journey takes six hours, which is two times longer than before World War II!

Polish infrastructure ministers complained that the German railways are not interested in the modernization of the Polish route. Address the matter of the highest factors. The construction of double track, electrified routes to the Polish border, called the German parliament. The matter was discussed, in June last year meeting in Warsaw on Polish and German governments. After the summit there are views that if we talk to the Germans on the tracks (as opposed to injustice and reconciliation War II), a sign that we have come to normal, neighborly relations.

The German railways announced that this year will begin upgrading 50 km of the route from Berlin and Dresden to Wroclaw, the Polish side which connects to Węgliiec. The creation of a second track, electric traction and noise barriers. By the way, will be renovated at the border, destroyed the bridge over the Nysa.

On the Polish side of the route to Wroclaw is already upgraded. After finishing work, for four years of passenger trains through here they galloped off up to 160 km per hour. (Now go only warehouses), and will shorten travel time by half.

Merkel also promised to modernize another route from Berlin to Szczecin. There is a chance that here in four years trip will be shortened to 90 minutes.



How long is Kaunas-Berlin via Warzaw, and how long would Kaunas-Berlin be via Szczecin and/or Gdansk?

How long is Kaunas-Berlin via Warzaw, and how long would Kaunas-Berlin be via Szczecin and/or Gdansk?

Kaunas -> LT/PL border ?
PL/LT border (Trakiszki) - > Suwałki 29 min
Suwałki -> Warszawa Centralna 4 h 58 min
Warszawa Centralna -> Belin Ostbanhof 5h 8 min

So, from PL/LT border to Berlin journey could last 10 h 35 min.

Via Gdańsk and Sczecin it would last much longer, because tracks between Ełk and Olsztyn are in bad condition.

Suwałki -> Ełk (no train connection, only buses)
Ełk -> Szczecin Główny 11 h 16 min
Szczecin Główny -> Berlin Gesundbrunnen 1 h 45 min

It count last 15 h through Szczecin from PL/LT border.

Yous should add time from Kaunas -> LT/PL border.

Strong support from Funland for RB!

Finnish and Estonian prime ministers lend support to Rail Baltica project
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finnish+and+Estonian+prime+ministers+lend+support+to+Rail+Baltica+project/1329103893744

Strong support to Rail Baltica from Finnish Prime Minister Katainen
http://www.rbgc.eu/news/strong-support-to-rail-baltica-from-finnish-prime-minister-katainen.html

Strong support from Funland for RB!


:lol::lol::lol:
The Finnish must be proud.

:lol::lol::lol:
The Finnish must be proud.

Proud to be net payer in EU jei!

In other words net payer suppor ---> Finns are ordering to build the damn thing with our money.

Better to get some beneficial thing for Finland than pay those criminal Greek and other PIGS countries.

^^ Estonia is paying for them too, don't forget that ;)

^^ Estonia is paying for them too, don't forget that ;)

Speaking of Euro enlargement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_eurozone

Less than 2 years that Latvia join the club =)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_euro_coins#Status

less than 3 years than Lithuania joins too =).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_euro_coins#Status

I quess Finns tourism to Latvia and Lithuania will increase rapidly when you guys have the euro. Even I was planning trip to Riga, but then i decide to to go to Pärnu.

I feel big problems to deal with Lat currency.

P.S. E.g. During the first weekend of November 2011 more than 10 000 Belarussians came to "Ozas" shopping centre alone! :runaway:
Fifteen ordered buses and some thousands cars. :nuts:
Every Belarussian that weekend spent 300 euros on average.
http://www.veidas.lt/baltarusiai-tapo-aukso-gysla-lietuvos-prekybininkams
They spend more than billion euro per year in Vilnius shopping centres. This is sick :lol::nuts:
Up to thousand Belarussians every day come to Gariūnai market (http://vilnews.com/?p=1109) - one of the largest in Europe, also.

During a weekday around 500 people come to Vilnius from Minsk by train, according to Litrail.lt.

propaby minsk - vilnius line could be use more than mystical rail baltic.

propaby minsk - vilnius line could be use more than mystical rail baltic.

Probably. Minsk has more daily inhabitants than Latvia and almost twice as Estonia. In Minsk Oblast, there are more inhabitants than in Lithuania :nuts:

Tallinn-Tartu-Riga train traffic not to be cost-effective

Restoring train traffic between Tallinn and Riga via Tartu would not be cost-effective without state subsidies while the Tallinn-St Petersburg direction would reach profits, an analysis commissioned by the economy ministry indicates, reports LETA/Public Broadcasting.

The Riga-Valka and Valga-Tallinn trains meet in the Valga station now but there are very few people using the possibility of switching from one to the other train, which is understandable, considering that it would take over 8 hours to reach from Tallinn to Riga.

OÜ Positium, that compiled the study, based it on the assumption that the travelling time would be around 4.5 hours, three trains a day would depart from both Riga and Tallinn and there would be stops at Tallinn, Tartu, Tapa and Riga, traffic speed would be 120 km/h and new trains would be used.

The conclusion was that the route would not be profitable either businesswise or social-economically, even if the transport company received new trains for free. The train would be profitable if the state's subsidy in Estonia would be 2.4 million euros a year or there were 40% more passengers or tickets by 40% more expensive.

"While the Tallinn-Riga bus trip is 311 km long, taking a train via Tartu makes it 441 km long. When we speak of costs, then it is understandable that a bus company that takes the shorter route has smaller costs than the train company," said OÜ Positium working group member Rein Riisalu.

Source: http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/transport/?doc=56726

We`re dreaming now of RB trains and there`s no direct train connection between Tallinn and Riga.:ohno:

^^ It is quite clearly stated why there isn't a direct Tallinn-Riga train. If you take a route that's 40% longer, it's quite difficult to offer the same price. Also, I have serious doubts about the 4.5h travel time. That would require an average speed of 98 km/h which is extremely difficult to achieve with a top speed of 120 km/h.

Shouldn´t it make sense to have Tallinn-Riga train running 1x daily, with stops at Ülemiste, Tapa, Tamsalu, Jõgeva, Tartu, then probably Elva, Valga, Valmiera, Cesis, Sigulda?

That 'study' is weird, to say the least. Rushing those trains through big towns (besides, Sigulda and Cēsis are quite popular tourist destinations) just to win couple minutes (or, whatever the reason they thought about is) wouldn't help to make them sustainable.

^^ But the largest amount of passengers would still come from Tallinn and Riga. If you make the trip longer than 4.5h i.e. longer than the bus ride, the train line would lose a fair bit of those passengers.

Shouldn´t it make sense to have Tallinn-Riga train running 1x daily, with stops at Ülemiste, Tapa, Tamsalu, Jõgeva, Tartu, then probably Elva, Valga, Valmiera, Cesis, Sigulda?

I agree. Better one 6h train with stops you meant woudl make more sense to me. Once per day of course and with little subsidies I guess :)

well, my train would have stops in Tallinn, Tapa, Tartu, Valga, Valmiera, Cesis, Sigulda, Riga. as it is political project it would be sunsidized by both railway companies 50% each and it could go once per day :) it should make it in 5,5 or 6h and ticket price in 2nd class should be same with the bus. toilets must work, btw :D and TV in each car + wireles internet.

I agree. Better one 6h train with stops you meant woudl make more sense to me. Once per day of course and with little subsidies I guess :)

well, my train would have stops in Tallinn, Tapa, Tartu, Valga, Valmiera, Cesis, Sigulda, Riga. as it is political project it would be sunsidized by both railway companies 50% each and it could go once per day :) it should make it in 5,5 or 6h and ticket price in 2nd class should be same with the bus. toilets must work, btw :D and TV in each car + wireles internet.

New Edelaraudtee schedule, from 27th of May (Sunday), has been published.

Old schedule:
Tallinn-Valga train 0210
18 intermediate stops between Tallinn and Tartu
trip time Tallinn-Tartu 3:05: depart 6:46, arrive 9:51
3 cars per train, I think all 3rd class, or perhaps 2nd class mixed along and sold at 3rd class price
10 minute stop at Tartu
11 intermediate stops between Tartu and Valga
trip time Tartu-Valga 1:33: depart 10:01, arrive 11:34
total Tallinn-Valga 30 intermediate stops, trip time 4:48
ticket price:
Tallinn-Valga € 8.95
Tallinn-Tartu € 6.71 - compare bus trip time 2:25, ticket price € 10.-
Tallinn-Tartu train 0010
4 intermediate stops between Tallinn and Tartu
trip time Tallinn-Tartu 2:22: depart 7:52, arrive 10:14
5 cars per train - 1 3rd class sold at 2nd class prices, 3 2nd class, 1 1st class
ticket price:
2nd and 3rd class € 7.99 - compare train 0210 € 6.71, bus € 10.-
1st class € 9.91
Latvian train 851/661
25 intermediate stops between Valga and Riga
trip time 3:19: depart 11:44, arrive 15:03.
price € 5.62.

New schedule:
Tallinn-Valga train 0210
19 intermediate stops between Tallinn and Tartu: added Kärkna
trip time decreased by 6 minutes to 2:59, but shifted earlier: new departure 6:30, arrival 9:29
still 10 minute stop at Tartu
still 11 intermediate stops between Tartu and Valga
trip time decreased by 3 minutes to 1:30: new departure 9:39, arrival 11:09, total Tallinn-Valga now 4:39
Tallinn-Tartu train 0010
same 4 intermediate stops
sped up from 2:22 to 2:11
new departure 7:53, new arrival 10:04.

What is now happening to the Latvian side?

Berlin-Gdynia Express - ticket price - 29 euros


You can now buy tickets for the first time in history category Eurocity train shuttle to Tri-City. From 6 June starts the train Berlin-Gdynia. Ticket prices start from 29 euros one-way

At first he had to be called "Daniel Fahrenheit," but ultimately it was called a EuroCity "Berlin - Gdynia Express". Will run daily from June 6. From Gdansk depart at will. 6.40 in the morning and the station Berlin Hauptbanhof enters the chair. 13.12. The train from Berlin will leave at. 15.50, arrival at Gdańsk raiway station at 22.05.

The train will be operated by PKP Intercity and will consist of three second-class carriages, one restaurant car and a first-class wagon.

- There will be air-conditioned cars, to the highest standard - says Małgorzata Sitkowska, spokesman for PKP Intercity.

So 6h 15 min Gdańsk - Berlin (585 km) not good, not bad...

According to laters news the cost of gasoline compared to incomes are highest at Baltic states.

...Suomalaista hymyilyttää Via Balticaa kaasuttaessa, mutta paikallisille bensa on kallista. Jo Virossa perustallaaja joutuu käyttämään 14 prosenttia päivätuloistaan bensagallonaan, ja Liettuassa sekä Latviassa siitä pulitetaan jo viidennes päivätuloista....


..I quess good news for railway infra development and passenger flows?

http://www.taloussanomat.fi/autot/2012/05/14/mika-kipuraja-bensahan-on-suomessa-halpaa/201229310/304

Good news for Rail Baltica ->

Lithuanian Railways to improve the capital’s bypass
23/05/2012
http://www.railwayinsider.eu/wp/archives/35288