^^ The problem with Alibata is with loanwords. Alibata can't render letters like C, Q or X.

C is unnecessary because it can take on the sounds of both K and S depending on the word. Q can take on the sound of K. X can be made into a new letter. But then again think of words with X ... X can take on the sounds of different letters.

That also doesn't mean that the new Filipino language board can't modify Alibata slightly to match the needs of what our new writing system will require.

Yea, even our neighbouring countries have abandon their native scripts for the Roman alphabet. It is like having to use hieroglyphics in our daily lives. It was our ancestors who abandon it because it was no longer able to cope up with the modern world. :)

Other countries have learned to make due with the sounds their letters can produce. We could very much do the same. China, Japan and Thailand didn't have to ditch their alphabet for the sake of learning other languages. If you want to learn that language correctly, just study it. Languages weren't designed to learn other languages. Our own writing system just makes us all the more unique :). Look at Korean ... you don't need to throw out the Hangeul alphabet to write out chicken. 치킨. Chi + kin = Chikin = Chicken. Close enough! We can just learn to get by with what we have. If you want to learn it the absolute correct way, than just go ahead and learn the language. Or we could modify our alibata a little bit to accommodate some other sounds, even though it isn't necessary. Then again, we are entering the age when those who live in a country using characters also know the roman alphabet too. So, if you want to go ahead and write out the Roman word, be my guest. It's becoming pretty common in Japan, China, Korea and Thailand now anyway.

After all the Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji, I would say it is really much easier to learn!:lol:

Tell me about it! I first tried Hiragana. It was fine. Katakana was okay - a little harder especially with the modifications. And then when it came time for Kanji ... Oh hell no! I have better things to do with my time than to memorize thousands of characters which I could soon forget T_T.


It is the same on both sides. I have been with some Tagalogs who said some ridiculous stereotypes of Bisaya/Cebuano speakers to the point that it was demeaning. They didn't know I spoke the language but I never did say something back at them.

Again , why the hatred?


Is this hatred deep seated?



Sorry slightly OT, but this is something I wanted to say regarding the regional hatred ...

Well, everyone is different. So naturally, we start forming different prejudices. A lot of the times, they're not meant to be as harsh as some people take them. Our pride though, balloons the effect, and we take a lot of things more personally then they need to be taken. However, in our case, neither side is threatening the other side with their life. So, it's all a matter of taking this into perspective. First of all, in the grand scope of things, on a race/regionalistic view, one side should just not care about what the other thinks. This is easier said than done though, but it's all a matter of maturity. We're all different and nobody is greater than the other. Our success is based on our ability to take in problems and deal with them accordingly. Seeing as how we're nowhere close to situations like the Hootoos and the Tootsies or the different groups in Iraq, we should just try not to let what other people say affect us. We could be a lot worse off. If you think somebody is acting superior or intensely regionalistic then just try your best to disregard that aspect of their personality. Once that person becomes really fierce, you are presented with two options. You can let it bother you and perpetuate the antagonism, or you can just let that aspect of their personality go and be the better person. Granted, both sides do bring up good points!

I just read this great personal development book called: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Ironically, parts of this book are readily applicable to our situation. It could also help to ease the antagonism. Habit 5 is, "Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood." Effective listening is not simply echoing what the other person has said through the lens of one's own experience. Rather, it is putting oneself in the perspective of the other person, listening emphatically for both feeling and meaning.

Also, we shouldn't let the minority (or fierce regionalistic people and those with a huge superiority complex) represent the whole. Not all people from that group are regionalistic/superior acting. Sometimes the vocal minority seem to speak for more than they actually represent.

In the grand scheme of things, regionalistic contempt is getting us nowhere. It's totally unnecessary, and there are better things we could be doing with our time. Sure we could love our region, but the fact that it's now boiling down to hate is becoming such a complete joke. It's ridiculous. There are other things we should be putting our time towards, and it's really forming a huge tumor on national progress. We have a world to compete with out there! Some people are totally ignoring this and they're wasting their time on fighting other people in their own country. Talk about defeating yourself. Mission accomplished! That's all I'm seeing here, and it's so depressing. People should focus more on understanding instead of scheming and breeding contempt for the other side. Do people respond better to hatred or to compassion and understanding? Of course they listen more to compassion and understanding. So if you're out there hating the other side and making big accusations and false suppositions, just FORGET being heard. You're not helping out. You're actually causing more trouble and adding salt to the wound. Sorry if this sounds so cliche and idealistic, but it's so true.

^^ The problem with Alibata is with loanwords. Alibata can't render letters like C, Q or X.

C is unnecessary because it can take on the sounds of both K and S depending on the word. Q can take on the sound of K. X can be made into a new letter. But then again think of words with X ... X can take on the sounds of different letters.

That also doesn't mean that the new Filipino language board can't modify Alibata slightly to match the needs of what our new writing system will require.

Yea, even our neighbouring countries have abandon their native scripts for the Roman alphabet. It is like having to use hieroglyphics in our daily lives. It was our ancestors who abandon it because it was no longer able to cope up with the modern world. :)

Other countries have learned to make due with the sounds their letters can produce. We could very much do the same. China, Japan and Thailand didn't have to ditch their alphabet for the sake of learning other languages. If you want to learn that language correctly, just study it. Languages weren't designed to learn other languages. Our own writing system just makes us all the more unique :). Look at Korean ... you don't need to throw out the Hangeul alphabet to write out chicken. 치킨. Chi + kin = Chikin = Chicken. Close enough! We can just learn to get by with what we have. If you want to learn it the absolute correct way, than just go ahead and learn the language. Or we could modify our alibata a little bit to accommodate some other sounds, even though it isn't necessary. Then again, we are entering the age when those who live in a country using characters also know the roman alphabet too. So, if you want to go ahead and write out the Roman word, be my guest. It's becoming pretty common in Japan, China, Korea and Thailand now anyway.

After all the Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji, I would say it is really much easier to learn!:lol:

Tell me about it! I first tried Hiragana. It was fine. Katakana was okay - a little harder especially with the modifications. And then when it came time for Kanji ... Oh hell no! I have better things to do with my time than to memorize thousands of characters which I could soon forget T_T.


It is the same on both sides. I have been with some Tagalogs who said some ridiculous stereotypes of Bisaya/Cebuano speakers to the point that it was demeaning. They didn't know I spoke the language but I never did say something back at them.

Again , why the hatred?


Is this hatred deep seated?



Sorry slightly OT, but this is something I wanted to say regarding the regional hatred ...

Well, everyone is different. So naturally, we start forming different prejudices. A lot of the times, they're not meant to be as harsh as some people take them. Our pride though, balloons the effect, and we take a lot of things more personally then they need to be taken. However, in our case, neither side is threatening the other side with their life. So, it's all a matter of taking this into perspective. First of all, in the grand scope of things, on a race/regionalistic view, one side should just not care about what the other thinks. This is easier said than done though, but it's all a matter of maturity. We're all different and nobody is greater than the other. Our success is based on our ability to take in problems and deal with them accordingly. Seeing as how we're nowhere close to situations like the Hootoos and the Tootsies or the different groups in Iraq, we should just try not to let what other people say affect us. We could be a lot worse off. If you think somebody is acting superior or intensely regionalistic then just try your best to disregard that aspect of their personality. Once that person becomes really fierce, you are presented with two options. You can let it bother you and perpetuate the antagonism, or you can just let that aspect of their personality go and be the better person. Granted, both sides do bring up good points!

I just read this great personal development book called: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Ironically, parts of this book are readily applicable to our situation. It could also help to ease the antagonism. Habit 5 is, "Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood." Effective listening is not simply echoing what the other person has said through the lens of one's own experience. Rather, it is putting oneself in the perspective of the other person, listening emphatically for both feeling and meaning.

Also, we shouldn't let the minority (or fierce regionalistic people and those with a huge superiority complex) represent the whole. Not all people from that group are regionalistic/superior acting. Sometimes the vocal minority seem to speak for more than they actually represent.

In the grand scheme of things, regionalistic contempt is getting us nowhere. It's totally unnecessary, and there are better things we could be doing with our time. Sure we could love our region, but the fact that it's now boiling down to hate is becoming such a complete joke. It's ridiculous. There are other things we should be putting our time towards, and it's really forming a huge tumor on national progress. We have a world to compete with out there! Some people are totally ignoring this and they're wasting their time on fighting other people in their own country. Talk about defeating yourself. Mission accomplished! That's all I'm seeing here, and it's so depressing. People should focus more on understanding instead of scheming and breeding contempt for the other side. Do people respond better to hatred or to compassion and understanding? Of course they listen more to compassion and understanding. So if you're out there hating the other side and making big accusations and false suppositions, just FORGET being heard. You're not helping out. You're actually causing more trouble and adding salt to the wound. Sorry if this sounds so cliche and idealistic, but it's so true.

Again , why the hatred?

BTW, is this a fact, a joke, or you are just being sarcastic?Please clarify...




Questions...because your story is incomplete..

Are these 2 people Cebuanos speaking in Tagalog?

So they were attacked simply because they spoke tagalog or there are other reasons aside from what you have mentioned?

If they were indeed attacked because of the language they used in their conversation, why the aggression?

Is this hatred deep seated?

I thought, cebuanos find people speaking in tagalog ok?

Hypothetically,I wonder what will the cebuanos feel if this ethnic hatred become a tit-for-tat thing in which the tagalogs of central luzon, southern tagalog and metromanila will do the same with cebuano speaking people....

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way. This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :)

Again , why the hatred?

BTW, is this a fact, a joke, or you are just being sarcastic?Please clarify...




Questions...because your story is incomplete..

Are these 2 people Cebuanos speaking in Tagalog?

So they were attacked simply because they spoke tagalog or there are other reasons aside from what you have mentioned?

If they were indeed attacked because of the language they used in their conversation, why the aggression?

Is this hatred deep seated?

I thought, cebuanos find people speaking in tagalog ok?

Hypothetically,I wonder what will the cebuanos feel if this ethnic hatred become a tit-for-tat thing in which the tagalogs of central luzon, southern tagalog and metromanila will do the same with cebuano speaking people....

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way. This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :)

Again , why the hatred?

BTW, is this a fact, a joke, or you are just being sarcastic?Please clarify...


and its the same also for us cebuanos! why the hatred of tagalogs against us?! would you mind explain it too?

no! its not a joke! its a fact! i maybe sarcastic but its true!


Questions...because your story is incomplete..

Are these 2 people Cebuanos speaking in Tagalog?

So they were attacked simply because they spoke tagalog or there are other reasons aside from what you have mentioned?

If they were indeed attacked because of the language they used in their conversation, why the aggression?

Is this hatred deep seated?

I thought, cebuanos find people speaking in tagalog ok?

Hypothetically,I wonder what will the cebuanos feel if this ethnic hatred become a tit-for-tat thing in which the tagalogs of central luzon, southern tagalog and metromanila will do the same with cebuano speaking people....

i still have to find that news article posted at SSC-Cebu. i remember 1 was from pangasinan and the other somewhere in bicol i guess. yes, they were speaking in tagalog but the news article didn't emphasize the reason why they we're attacked. probably there could be some problems regarding their work in the construction or perhaps just a drinking session that turned out to be sour among their cebuano counterparts.

oh common' man, i think you knew cebuanos attitude against tagalogs? its as if im talking to a foreigner here. actually, cebuanos have already endured descrimination in tagalog-speaking regions esp in MM. the way i see you, i may pass you as a more friendlier tagalog or manilan but hey, your fellow tagalogs and manilans don't act the same way as you do when it comes to probinsyanos esp. cebuanos. its as if these stereotypes between cebuanos and tagalogs were foreign to you. it has been there sir ever since pa, ni hindi pa ako pinanganak nandjan na yan and i've experienced it myself when i was in manila some years ago only that i was fortune enough i was not brutally wounded but it was more of morally upsetting and socially degrading on my part. okay lang kasi hindi naman ako pinamatay. buti na lang. pero sa dalawang taong nagtatagalog sa cebu na dinala sa hospital dahil lang nagtagalog, i felt sorry for them. we may not know the real story behind that pero hindi na ako nagtaka kasi ako mismo naranasan ko na rin yan.

Again , why the hatred?

BTW, is this a fact, a joke, or you are just being sarcastic?Please clarify...


and its the same also for us cebuanos! why the hatred of tagalogs against us?! would you mind explain it too?

no! its not a joke! its a fact! i maybe sarcastic but its true!


Questions...because your story is incomplete..

Are these 2 people Cebuanos speaking in Tagalog?

So they were attacked simply because they spoke tagalog or there are other reasons aside from what you have mentioned?

If they were indeed attacked because of the language they used in their conversation, why the aggression?

Is this hatred deep seated?

I thought, cebuanos find people speaking in tagalog ok?

Hypothetically,I wonder what will the cebuanos feel if this ethnic hatred become a tit-for-tat thing in which the tagalogs of central luzon, southern tagalog and metromanila will do the same with cebuano speaking people....

i still have to find that news article posted at SSC-Cebu. i remember 1 was from pangasinan and the other somewhere in bicol i guess. yes, they were speaking in tagalog but the news article didn't emphasize the reason why they we're attacked. probably there could be some problems regarding their work in the construction or perhaps just a drinking session that turned out to be sour among their cebuano counterparts.

oh common' man, i think you knew cebuanos attitude against tagalogs? its as if im talking to a foreigner here. actually, cebuanos have already endured descrimination in tagalog-speaking regions esp in MM. the way i see you, i may pass you as a more friendlier tagalog or manilan but hey, your fellow tagalogs and manilans don't act the same way as you do when it comes to probinsyanos esp. cebuanos. its as if these stereotypes between cebuanos and tagalogs were foreign to you. it has been there sir ever since pa, ni hindi pa ako pinanganak nandjan na yan and i've experienced it myself when i was in manila some years ago only that i was fortune enough i was not brutally wounded but it was more of morally upsetting and socially degrading on my part. okay lang kasi hindi naman ako pinamatay. buti na lang. pero sa dalawang taong nagtatagalog sa cebu na dinala sa hospital dahil lang nagtagalog, i felt sorry for them. we may not know the real story behind that pero hindi na ako nagtaka kasi ako mismo naranasan ko na rin yan.

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way.

I used the term hatred because from the story, those two people were seriously wounded just because they spoke in tagalog...

People are hurt because they are using another language not accepted in that particular area of the Philippines?

Thats why I posted the hypothetical situation, what if the tagalogs will do the same to Cebuano speakers in Metro manila, Southern tagalog and Central Luzon (all major urban and growth centers of the Philippines which host millions of non-tagalogs including Cebuanos?)

This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

With all due respect, Its not an excuse to hurt people seriously because somebody mocked a person as Visaya in the past because he mispronounced an English or tagalog word.

Why the crime random?

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I know this very very well. And I have never disrespected anyone if they failed to pronounce a word correctly.

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :


Of course not.

Im not because I dont have any prejudices or resentments against any Pinoy. As I mentioned previously in this forum, I have alot of friends (in fact my best freind came from Leyte)who came from the South

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way.

I used the term hatred because from the story, those two people were seriously wounded just because they spoke in tagalog...

People are hurt because they are using another language not accepted in that particular area of the Philippines?

Thats why I posted the hypothetical situation, what if the tagalogs will do the same to Cebuano speakers in Metro manila, Southern tagalog and Central Luzon (all major urban and growth centers of the Philippines which host millions of non-tagalogs including Cebuanos?)

This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

With all due respect, Its not an excuse to hurt people seriously because somebody mocked a person as Visaya in the past because he mispronounced an English or tagalog word.

Why the crime random?

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I know this very very well. And I have never disrespected anyone if they failed to pronounce a word correctly.

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :


Of course not.

Im not because I dont have any prejudices or resentments against any Pinoy. As I mentioned previously in this forum, I have alot of friends (in fact my best freind came from Leyte)who came from the South

and its the same also for us cebuanos! why the hatred of tagalogs against us?! would you mind explain it too?
no! its not a joke! its a fact! i maybe sarcastic but its true!


Where did you get the idea that the tagalogs hate the Cebuanos?

How can i explain an idea which Im not aware of?

I have alot of friends from Cebu. And we never talked about this idea about hatred between the two groups.

On the otherhand, can you give me a literature or a study that will prove that there is a deep seated hatred between tagalog and Cebuanos or vice versa? or you are just mentioning your own personal point of view?

I been to Cebu a couple of times and I going to Cebu this summer and visit my friends there and I never heard this idea (only now and in this forum) that there is a mutual hatred between Tagalogs and Cebuanos.

i still have to find that news article posted at SSC-Cebu. i remember 1 was from pangasinan and the other somewhere in bicol i guess. yes, they were speaking in tagalog but the news article didn't emphasize the reason why they we're attacked. probably there could be some problems regarding their work in the construction or perhaps just a drinking session that turned out to be sour among their cebuano counterparts.

At least you are clearing up things. because i just cant believe people were attacked because they spoke in Tagalog!

oh common' man, i think you knew cebuanos attitude against tagalogs? its as if im talking to a foreigner here.

Definitely no. Absolutely no idea.My friend working in Cebu should have told me that.

Fact is, your idea is alien to me.I see all Pinoys as equal.

actually, cebuanos have already endured descrimination in tagalog-speaking regions esp in MM. the way i see you, i may pass you as a more friendlier tagalog or manilan but hey, your fellow tagalogs and manilans don't act the same way as you do when it comes to probinsyanos esp. cebuanos.
maybe those who discriminate against fellow Pinoys have false sense or misplaced superiority complex.And I hate these kind of people.

Its as if these stereotypes between cebuanos and tagalogs were foreign to you.

Honestly, hindi ko alam. Foreign sa akin. Kung may alam ako yung nakikita ko sa TV and that's it. I grew up in an environment were all of us came from the provinces. In college, I lived in a dorm with people coming from LUzon, Visayas and MIndanao.

it has been there sir ever since pa, ni hindi pa ako pinanganak nandjan na yan and i've experienced it myself when i was in manila some years ago only that i was fortune enough i was not brutally wounded but it was more of morally upsetting and socially degrading on my part.

I knew it. Its based on personal experience. But I perfectly understand.Those who hurt you because of your ethno-linguistic background are a bunch of illiterates, morons and who lived in ancient times when warring barangays are still in..

okay lang kasi hindi naman ako pinamatay. buti na lang. pero sa dalawang taong nagtatagalog sa cebu na dinala sa hospital dahil lang nagtagalog, i felt sorry for them.

Sabi mo hindi naman dahil sa nagtatagalog sila?Check the quoted reply (your reply)above

we may not know the real story behind that pero hindi na ako nagtaka kasi ako mismo naranasan ko na rin yan.


Well, let us not generalized things. Kasi nga ako hindi ko naranasan. At hindi naranasan ng mga kaibigan kong mga Cebuano yang sinasabi mo.

and its the same also for us cebuanos! why the hatred of tagalogs against us?! would you mind explain it too?
no! its not a joke! its a fact! i maybe sarcastic but its true!


Where did you get the idea that the tagalogs hate the Cebuanos?

How can i explain an idea which Im not aware of?

I have alot of friends from Cebu. And we never talked about this idea about hatred between the two groups.

On the otherhand, can you give me a literature or a study that will prove that there is a deep seated hatred between tagalog and Cebuanos or vice versa? or you are just mentioning your own personal point of view?

I been to Cebu a couple of times and I going to Cebu this summer and visit my friends there and I never heard this idea (only now and in this forum) that there is a mutual hatred between Tagalogs and Cebuanos.

i still have to find that news article posted at SSC-Cebu. i remember 1 was from pangasinan and the other somewhere in bicol i guess. yes, they were speaking in tagalog but the news article didn't emphasize the reason why they we're attacked. probably there could be some problems regarding their work in the construction or perhaps just a drinking session that turned out to be sour among their cebuano counterparts.

At least you are clearing up things. because i just cant believe people were attacked because they spoke in Tagalog!

oh common' man, i think you knew cebuanos attitude against tagalogs? its as if im talking to a foreigner here.

Definitely no. Absolutely no idea.My friend working in Cebu should have told me that.

Fact is, your idea is alien to me.I see all Pinoys as equal.

actually, cebuanos have already endured descrimination in tagalog-speaking regions esp in MM. the way i see you, i may pass you as a more friendlier tagalog or manilan but hey, your fellow tagalogs and manilans don't act the same way as you do when it comes to probinsyanos esp. cebuanos.
maybe those who discriminate against fellow Pinoys have false sense or misplaced superiority complex.And I hate these kind of people.

Its as if these stereotypes between cebuanos and tagalogs were foreign to you.

Honestly, hindi ko alam. Foreign sa akin. Kung may alam ako yung nakikita ko sa TV and that's it. I grew up in an environment were all of us came from the provinces. In college, I lived in a dorm with people coming from LUzon, Visayas and MIndanao.

it has been there sir ever since pa, ni hindi pa ako pinanganak nandjan na yan and i've experienced it myself when i was in manila some years ago only that i was fortune enough i was not brutally wounded but it was more of morally upsetting and socially degrading on my part.

I knew it. Its based on personal experience. But I perfectly understand.Those who hurt you because of your ethno-linguistic background are a bunch of illiterates, morons and who lived in ancient times when warring barangays are still in..

okay lang kasi hindi naman ako pinamatay. buti na lang. pero sa dalawang taong nagtatagalog sa cebu na dinala sa hospital dahil lang nagtagalog, i felt sorry for them.

Sabi mo hindi naman dahil sa nagtatagalog sila?Check the quoted reply (your reply)above

we may not know the real story behind that pero hindi na ako nagtaka kasi ako mismo naranasan ko na rin yan.


Well, let us not generalized things. Kasi nga ako hindi ko naranasan. At hindi naranasan ng mga kaibigan kong mga Cebuano yang sinasabi mo.

Sorry slightly OT, but this is something I wanted to say regarding the regional hatred ...

Well, everyone is different. So naturally, we start forming different prejudices. A lot of the times, they're not meant to be as harsh as some people take them. Our pride though, balloons the effect, and we take a lot of things more personally then they need to be taken. However, in our case, neither side is threatening the other side with their life. So, it's all a matter of taking this into perspective. First of all, in the grand scope of things, on a race/regionalistic view, one side should just not care about what the other thinks. This is easier said than done though, but it's all a matter of maturity. We're all different and nobody is greater than the other. Our success is based on our ability to take in problems and deal with them accordingly. Seeing as how we're nowhere close to situations like the Hootoos and the Tootsies or the different groups in Iraq, we should just try not to let what other people say affect us. We could be a lot worse off. If you think somebody is acting superior or intensely regionalistic then just try your best to disregard that aspect of their personality. Once that person becomes really fierce, you are presented with two options. You can let it bother you and perpetuate the antagonism, or you can just let that aspect of their personality go and be the better person. Granted, both sides do bring up good points!

I just read this great personal development book called: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Ironically, parts of this book are readily applicable to our situation. It could also help to ease the antagonism. Habit 5 is, "Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood." Effective listening is not simply echoing what the other person has said through the lens of one's own experience. Rather, it is putting oneself in the perspective of the other person, listening emphatically for both feeling and meaning.

Also, we shouldn't let the minority (or fierce regionalistic people and those with a huge superiority complex) represent the whole. Not all people from that group are regionalistic/superior acting. Sometimes the vocal minority seem to speak for more than they actually represent.



To lighten up the serious discussion....Its Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda. The Tutsi minority are seen by Hutus as the exploiter (superior) and the Hutus as the majority as the exploited (inferior). So the 1990s genocide is a form of revenge of the Hutus against Tutsis.

Actually, the Belgians should be blamed for this. They should have curved out two nations for tutsis and hutus. Problem is they curved out nations not following this. Rwanda and Burundi are populated by Hutus and Tutsis.


In the grand scheme of things, regionalistic contempt is getting us nowhere. It's totally unnecessary, and there are better things we could be doing with our time. Sure we could love our region, but the fact that it's now boiling down to hate is becoming such a complete joke. It's ridiculous. There are other things we should be putting our time towards, and it's really forming a huge tumor on national progress. We have a world to compete with out there! Some people are totally ignoring this and they're wasting their time on fighting other people in their own country. Talk about defeating yourself. Mission accomplished! That's all I'm seeing here, and it's so depressing. People should focus more on understanding instead of scheming and breeding contempt for the other side. Do people respond better to hatred or to compassion and understanding? Of course they listen more to compassion and understanding. So if you're out there hating the other side and making big accusations and false suppositions, just FORGET being heard. You're not helping out. You're actually causing more trouble and adding salt to the wound. Sorry if this sounds so cliche and idealistic, but it's so true.

Agree here!:cheers:

Sorry slightly OT, but this is something I wanted to say regarding the regional hatred ...

Well, everyone is different. So naturally, we start forming different prejudices. A lot of the times, they're not meant to be as harsh as some people take them. Our pride though, balloons the effect, and we take a lot of things more personally then they need to be taken. However, in our case, neither side is threatening the other side with their life. So, it's all a matter of taking this into perspective. First of all, in the grand scope of things, on a race/regionalistic view, one side should just not care about what the other thinks. This is easier said than done though, but it's all a matter of maturity. We're all different and nobody is greater than the other. Our success is based on our ability to take in problems and deal with them accordingly. Seeing as how we're nowhere close to situations like the Hootoos and the Tootsies or the different groups in Iraq, we should just try not to let what other people say affect us. We could be a lot worse off. If you think somebody is acting superior or intensely regionalistic then just try your best to disregard that aspect of their personality. Once that person becomes really fierce, you are presented with two options. You can let it bother you and perpetuate the antagonism, or you can just let that aspect of their personality go and be the better person. Granted, both sides do bring up good points!

I just read this great personal development book called: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Ironically, parts of this book are readily applicable to our situation. It could also help to ease the antagonism. Habit 5 is, "Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood." Effective listening is not simply echoing what the other person has said through the lens of one's own experience. Rather, it is putting oneself in the perspective of the other person, listening emphatically for both feeling and meaning.

Also, we shouldn't let the minority (or fierce regionalistic people and those with a huge superiority complex) represent the whole. Not all people from that group are regionalistic/superior acting. Sometimes the vocal minority seem to speak for more than they actually represent.



To lighten up the serious discussion....Its Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda. The Tutsi minority are seen by Hutus as the exploiter (superior) and the Hutus as the majority as the exploited (inferior). So the 1990s genocide is a form of revenge of the Hutus against Tutsis.

Actually, the Belgians should be blamed for this. They should have curved out two nations for tutsis and hutus. Problem is they curved out nations not following this. Rwanda and Burundi are populated by Hutus and Tutsis.


In the grand scheme of things, regionalistic contempt is getting us nowhere. It's totally unnecessary, and there are better things we could be doing with our time. Sure we could love our region, but the fact that it's now boiling down to hate is becoming such a complete joke. It's ridiculous. There are other things we should be putting our time towards, and it's really forming a huge tumor on national progress. We have a world to compete with out there! Some people are totally ignoring this and they're wasting their time on fighting other people in their own country. Talk about defeating yourself. Mission accomplished! That's all I'm seeing here, and it's so depressing. People should focus more on understanding instead of scheming and breeding contempt for the other side. Do people respond better to hatred or to compassion and understanding? Of course they listen more to compassion and understanding. So if you're out there hating the other side and making big accusations and false suppositions, just FORGET being heard. You're not helping out. You're actually causing more trouble and adding salt to the wound. Sorry if this sounds so cliche and idealistic, but it's so true.

Agree here!:cheers:

On the Tagalogs/Northerners: Why the superiority complex? I could ask this one too. I am not debating but just showing the reverse regionalism up North.It is the same on both sides. I have been with some Tagalogs who said some ridiculous stereotypes of Bisaya/Cebuano speakers to the point that it was demeaning. They didn't know I spoke the language but I never did say something back at them.


If what you claim is true (Tagalog/ Northerners have superiority complex) I will ask the same question to my fellow Tagalogs or my Kapampangan brethren.

If you ask me personally, having those stereotypes against any ethno-linguistic groups are definitely ridiculous.

They are demeaning and have no space in a highly literate society like ours (Philippines with literacy rate of over 90% . among the highest in the world.)

On the Tagalogs/Northerners: Why the superiority complex? I could ask this one too. I am not debating but just showing the reverse regionalism up North.It is the same on both sides. I have been with some Tagalogs who said some ridiculous stereotypes of Bisaya/Cebuano speakers to the point that it was demeaning. They didn't know I spoke the language but I never did say something back at them.


If what you claim is true (Tagalog/ Northerners have superiority complex) I will ask the same question to my fellow Tagalogs or my Kapampangan brethren.

If you ask me personally, having those stereotypes against any ethno-linguistic groups are definitely ridiculous.

They are demeaning and have no space in a highly literate society like ours (Philippines with literacy rate of over 90% . among the highest in the world.)

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way. This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :)

Thanks for your explanation bai ROnnie. I sincerely appreciate that as a Cebuano and Filipino. It's all this media hogwash. Andyan pa si Aling Dionesia who is becoming this personification of that bias and stereotype. Cebuano is really a hard-tongued language, but when we switch to English, we don another accent, even.

But it's true, the resentment partly comes from this.
Think of it this way.

Cebuanos don't learn their own language in school and is treated as an inferior language.

Then, we are forced to learn Tagalog (forced because you have to pass it as a subject in school).

And then, Cebuanos who do speak Tagalog, instead of being credited for it (because, hey I had to learn your language and you didn't have to learn mine..) are ridiculed because of the accent. I don't have to explain that this accent I'm talking about is portrayed by the stereotypical katulong from the province, or the driver, and "second class" citizens by the Tagalog-centric media.

The result is, this feeling of resentment and a preference to speaking English.


I wouldn't want to sound so bitter and whiny about it, but I really am glad whenever it crosses a Tagalog's mind to ask WHY. And so I must try to explain. But really, I thank those people who are still sensible enough to bother and ask why indeed. Some of the speakers of the dominant language of this country (aka Tagalog) must be sensitized about it a little more, I think.

I think the word hatred is too strong to describe the feeling of Cebuanos against the Tagalogs. It is appropriate to call it as "resentment". We can't really blame them if they feel that way. This is brought about by years of mockery against the Bisaya. How many times we hear until now (although to a lesser degree compared before), the insults if somebody mispronounced the words - automatically, these people say "ay Bisaya"...but if you talk to educated people or professionals in Cebu, they speak fluent English and straight...it is just that every time they speak in Tagalog, it is awkward or uncomfortable to them.

There should be sensitivity on our part from Manila or any part of Tagalog speaking region when saying this statement that would hurt their ego. Our Tagalog centric media don't help though...

I'm not saying that you're one of them, jpdm. :)

Thanks for your explanation bai ROnnie. I sincerely appreciate that as a Cebuano and Filipino. It's all this media hogwash. Andyan pa si Aling Dionesia who is becoming this personification of that bias and stereotype. Cebuano is really a hard-tongued language, but when we switch to English, we don another accent, even.

But it's true, the resentment partly comes from this.
Think of it this way.

Cebuanos don't learn their own language in school and is treated as an inferior language.

Then, we are forced to learn Tagalog (forced because you have to pass it as a subject in school).

And then, Cebuanos who do speak Tagalog, instead of being credited for it (because, hey I had to learn your language and you didn't have to learn mine..) are ridiculed because of the accent. I don't have to explain that this accent I'm talking about is portrayed by the stereotypical katulong from the province, or the driver, and "second class" citizens by the Tagalog-centric media.

The result is, this feeling of resentment and a preference to speaking English.


I wouldn't want to sound so bitter and whiny about it, but I really am glad whenever it crosses a Tagalog's mind to ask WHY. And so I must try to explain. But really, I thank those people who are still sensible enough to bother and ask why indeed. Some of the speakers of the dominant language of this country (aka Tagalog) must be sensitized about it a little more, I think.

Yeah, it is really wrong to pass judgement in a prejudicial manner just because one is tagalog. I had my own share on these in the past where I have been labeled as someoen who has superiority complex without being given the benefit of the doubt to get to know me first. I guess with Cebuanos because of some experiences by others started becoming more apprehensive towards to a non bisaya or a tagalog that the moment someone from outside their city their radar is on a hightened mode to detect anti-tikalon, anti superiority complex , blah blah blah. I mean once in awhile you would notice these there but in general, cebuanos are very tolerant as well, that's the only thing they would get a good vibe on you at first but I don't blame them somehow.

Agree.

Although, I have to admit, as a Caviteno, I know the strong regionalistic tendencies of Cavitenos, who will call people not native ("taal" "tubo") of the province as DAYO.

The Daniel Tirona- Andres Bonifacio confrontation in Tejeros Convention showed, and I have to shamefully admit, was caused partly by the idea of dayo vs. taal (Magdalo vs. a Magdiwang from Tondo).

Anyway, hindi lahat ganun. Ako hindi. Walang dahilan para maging superior ako sa kapwa ko Pinoy dahil lang sa geography o kaya wika.

Yeah, it is really wrong to pass judgement in a prejudicial manner just because one is tagalog. I had my own share on these in the past where I have been labeled as someoen who has superiority complex without being given the benefit of the doubt to get to know me first. I guess with Cebuanos because of some experiences by others started becoming more apprehensive towards to a non bisaya or a tagalog that the moment someone from outside their city their radar is on a hightened mode to detect anti-tikalon, anti superiority complex , blah blah blah. I mean once in awhile you would notice these there but in general, cebuanos are very tolerant as well, that's the only thing they would get a good vibe on you at first but I don't blame them somehow.

Agree.

Although, I have to admit, as a Caviteno, I know the strong regionalistic tendencies of Cavitenos, who will call people not native ("taal" "tubo") of the province as DAYO.

The Daniel Tirona- Andres Bonifacio confrontation in Tejeros Convention showed, and I have to shamefully admit, was caused partly by the idea of dayo vs. taal (Magdalo vs. a Magdiwang from Tondo).

Anyway, hindi lahat ganun. Ako hindi. Walang dahilan para maging superior ako sa kapwa ko Pinoy dahil lang sa geography o kaya wika.

Thanks for your explanation bai ROnnie. I sincerely appreciate that as a Cebuano and Filipino. It's all this media hogwash. Andyan pa si Aling Dionesia who is becoming this personification of that bias and stereotype. Cebuano is really a hard-tongued language, but when we switch to English, we don another accent, even.

And then, Cebuanos who do speak Tagalog, instead of being credited for it (because, hey I had to learn your language and you didn't have to learn mine..) are ridiculed because of the accent. I don't have to explain that this accent I'm talking about is portrayed by the stereotypical katulong from the province, or the driver, and "second class" citizens by the Tagalog-centric media.

The result is, this feeling of resentment and a preference to speaking English.

.

My broader understanding surely comes from my background...although we were born and grew up in Luzon, our parents/forefathers were not originally from Manila.

I don't make it a big fuss on the pronunciation or accent since the Ilocano, Kapampangan, Ilonggo, etc. have their own unique accent if they speak the Tagalog language.

With regard to Aling Dionisia's ads, yes, it's not helping the stereotyping. Blame it on the ad agencies' staff who are mostly Tagalogs.

It's just like the Malay language. The Indonesians talk with soft accent but the Malaysians have heavy or strong accent. But they don't have problem nor they ridicule each other with respect to language. Their conflicts refer to different issues hehehe).

Thanks for your explanation bai ROnnie. I sincerely appreciate that as a Cebuano and Filipino. It's all this media hogwash. Andyan pa si Aling Dionesia who is becoming this personification of that bias and stereotype. Cebuano is really a hard-tongued language, but when we switch to English, we don another accent, even.

And then, Cebuanos who do speak Tagalog, instead of being credited for it (because, hey I had to learn your language and you didn't have to learn mine..) are ridiculed because of the accent. I don't have to explain that this accent I'm talking about is portrayed by the stereotypical katulong from the province, or the driver, and "second class" citizens by the Tagalog-centric media.

The result is, this feeling of resentment and a preference to speaking English.

.

My broader understanding surely comes from my background...although we were born and grew up in Luzon, our parents/forefathers were not originally from Manila.

I don't make it a big fuss on the pronunciation or accent since the Ilocano, Kapampangan, Ilonggo, etc. have their own unique accent if they speak the Tagalog language.

With regard to Aling Dionisia's ads, yes, it's not helping the stereotyping. Blame it on the ad agencies' staff who are mostly Tagalogs.

It's just like the Malay language. The Indonesians talk with soft accent but the Malaysians have heavy or strong accent. But they don't have problem nor they ridicule each other with respect to language. Their conflicts refer to different issues hehehe).

Yeah, it is unfair to put the blame on cebuanos but you've got to admit also that it is also unfair to blame it on tagalog when it's the system and it's creator faltered. I for one never realized that there was a problem and some even have so much hatred towards tagalogs that they even equate Manilenos as tagalog when Manila is actually the melting pot for all filipinos due to migration. We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)
Of course not, I always defend my one and only country - the Philippines. As I said, we don't have to resort to bashing just to make yourself "feel good". :)
I also had few brushes of arguments while I was in Singapore but mostly with the sales clerks. I dealt with professionals in Singapore and I can assure you that they are just like us, decent and objective.
I don't see any relevance of putting down a language. Also, is there any standardized measurement of how a language can be claimed elegant or not? The UN has included a number of major languages in its body but it doesn't mean that those are elegant, does it? That is evidently caused by deep trauma... @Ron, I must say we’ve had better experiences here, give and take the few oddballs here and there. Yes, there are indeed decent and objective professionals at the N.U.S. There are indeed still some Filipinos who had learned to adapt to their academic standards and even thrive here. Howbeit one cannot argue against success.

Unlike you though, I had never attended any public ceremony nor anything of the sort, couldn’t be bothered by those. I’m a practical dude, just work here for the dough & fun. I’d rather watch a movie, which reminds me, I am the only person on earth who hasn’t seen Avatar. :lol: Gonna watch that tomorrow...
If these so called purists would like to develop The Filipino language, how about redeveloping its traditional alphabet system, baybayin.

Honestly I don't find "Filipino" that exciting with the exception of how some people talk with different accents and dialects. Its probably because you guys use a western alphabet system when it comes to writing. I would be supportive of this revival idea... to a certain degree. :)
It's kind of strange that while I consider myself fluent (native speaker almost) in Cebuano and Filipino, I could never write an academic discourse in Cebuano. It's almost always and invariably done in English and Filipino. Any true blue Cebuano would feel something, anything at all, for his maternal tongue rather than accept the status quo and fait accompli. And this is vis-à-vis any of the other languages which came after in life, like Spanish, English or Tagalog. I am speaking for myself and had based it as well on the experience of the vast majority of Cebuano speakers here.
that is why the most practical solution is to trash this "national" language. we do have official languages. the tagalogs can use english and tagalog if they want. besides to be practical, all we need is to strengthen our english fluency. it's the most practical thing to do. and each region can have it's own official languages too and have those languages taught in their schools.

though i agree with sky harbor too. we can re-engineer the "filipino" language. at no cost pro bono, and scholars of the state can come up with a "better" filipino language than what we have now, though i still would say it's more practical to just have official languages. besides more than 50years ago, the malolos constitution declared spanish to be the language of the "independent" republic. and more than 50years ago, the nation were mostly speaking in spanish, our chinese grandfather and his friends speaks spanish and it was already in the 50's. our grandpa came to the philippines during the american era. Let’s keep our fingers crossed, till then… :)
I am not sure if I am right but when I was young and attended school in Manila, I remember being taught that tagalog is the National Language. When did it really start calling the language "filipino" which is tagalog base? I just happen to start thinking about these and recalled what I was informed as a child, or perhaps I am misinformed? you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles.
Once burned, twice shy?:lol: Do you know who this is? Is he actually Cebuano?
There is really nothing implied there my friend, it is what it is.
I have posted my stand previously. I have already said I am personally not against learning Tagalog (because I do think it does serve me some purpose, like conversing with my GF), but if it were up to me I would prefer to learn the 3 languages in this manner:
First, to be taught Cebuano as a first language, and then English along with it (you know how it is with young kids being taught rudimentary English like counting, colors, names of common things etc.).
And then by 4th or 5th grade, I can learn Tagalog as a subject in school.
I demanded I be taught Cebuano formally in school and that is that. The source of my complaint is that basically, I should have been able to be truly literate in Cebuano had I been taught my own native tongue in school. You don't really understand, probably, how a regional citizen feels when his own language is relegated to the status of being used only outside of the sphere of academic pursuits. It is forbidden or discouraged to enter the classrooms.
There's this feeling of dissonance that I've only come to put into perspective when I came to another country where citizens live and breathe and use their own language in school. I was only lucky to have chanced upon the old Bisaya magazines of my Lola. From there I learned how to write classic Cebuano and also from the old Cebuano prayer booklets during the Commonwealth era like the ones being displayed right now at the Cebu Heritage Threads. I am happy with myself for treasuring my own maternal tongue before all others which came later, no offense of course to Spanish, English and Tagalog. But mother tongue will always be mother tongue. Didn’t the good Doctor say, Ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay masahol pa sa mabahong isda.
To lighten up the serious discussion....Its Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda. The Tutsi minority are seen by Hutus as the exploiter (superior) and the Hutus as the majority as the exploited (inferior). So the 1990s genocide is a form of revenge of the Hutus against Tutsis.
Actually, the Belgians should be blamed for this. They should have curved out two nations for tutsis and hutus. Problem is they curved out nations not following this. Rwanda and Burundi are populated by Hutus and Tutsis.
Agree here!:cheers: I actually liked Tootsie rolls as a kid till much later when I realized I don’t like caramel after all. :lol:

One can’t really blame all on the Belgians, after all they’re having a sporadic mini-identity crisis of their own. They can’t decide if the dominant language should be all French or all Dutch. The problem got so serious in the 60s that the oldest catholic university, Leuven (Jesuit), was split into 2 campuses due to rising ethnic tensions. One campus for the Dutch whilst the other campus for the French. Yes, it happened. Imagine UST split into 2 campuses, along ethnic lines. Last year, a Miss Belgium was dethroned coz she was discovered on nationwide TV that she could not speak Dutch. The Flemish population was in uproar. It may sound silly, but to those concerned, it is indeed a big deal. :)

Point is, never underestimate the power of ethno-linguistic tensions. It has the huge potential of sapping a nation’s strength even if it seems so insignificant to some – hello, hello Establishment. Is any one actually listening out there to us, @Sky Harbour? Or are we going to waste another 64 years being hoodwinked into acquiescence? :lol:
With regard to Aling Dionisia's ads, yes, it's not helping the stereotyping. Blame it on the ad agencies' staff who are mostly Tagalogs. Aling who? Would this be the same as the mom of boxing legend Manny Pacquiao? To those who thought up this idea and to all the so called “adoring” fans of Pacman who lap this up with glee – how do you suppose Manny Pacquiao would truly feel deep within to have his own mother being ridiculed publicly in a country which supposedly adores him? :ohno:

Can anyone really dare come within 10 feet of the Pacman and crack a joke like that? Paging a certain forumer here who inhabits the Bicol and Halalan threads… :|
yeah thats the right word "trash" to shut up all of you who are lost that this thread is for the propagation of the english language skills in the philippines not for you to debate about filipino or tagalog..:bash::bash::bash:. Correct. :lol:

@Sky Harbour, (oh thou who art the royal blue sky and thou who art the royal blue sea) :lol:
Did you see my delicious theology post sa economy threads? kaya lang natakot sila at tinanggal, e. :lol:
Remember yesterday at the Halalan Threads wherein 4 of us were on the same side of candidates but yet we were seemingly bashing each other?( To the merriment of the opposite camp, of course). That can be attributed to the different levels of English comprehension and skill. I am wary of Almario etal because in the not too distant past, they through their spokesperson Patricia Licuanan had posted several articles expressing their desire to push for an all Filipino educational system. This will sideline English in areas where it is needed most, like in the Sciences, Medicine, Engineering, Commerce, Law and Mathematics.

This thread, contrary to its title, had barely touched on any proposals to strengthen English? :lol: un saludo, SuperMercato (not to be confused with the Italian grocery chain + mi nuevo titulo = the poor rich slave Spartacus who will enjoy Carpe Diem and watch Avatar Blue) ... rich in humour only, that is :lol:

Yeah, it is unfair to put the blame on cebuanos but you've got to admit also that it is also unfair to blame it on tagalog when it's the system and it's creator faltered. I for one never realized that there was a problem and some even have so much hatred towards tagalogs that they even equate Manilenos as tagalog when Manila is actually the melting pot for all filipinos due to migration. We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)
Of course not, I always defend my one and only country - the Philippines. As I said, we don't have to resort to bashing just to make yourself "feel good". :)
I also had few brushes of arguments while I was in Singapore but mostly with the sales clerks. I dealt with professionals in Singapore and I can assure you that they are just like us, decent and objective.
I don't see any relevance of putting down a language. Also, is there any standardized measurement of how a language can be claimed elegant or not? The UN has included a number of major languages in its body but it doesn't mean that those are elegant, does it? That is evidently caused by deep trauma... @Ron, I must say we’ve had better experiences here, give and take the few oddballs here and there. Yes, there are indeed decent and objective professionals at the N.U.S. There are indeed still some Filipinos who had learned to adapt to their academic standards and even thrive here. Howbeit one cannot argue against success.

Unlike you though, I had never attended any public ceremony nor anything of the sort, couldn’t be bothered by those. I’m a practical dude, just work here for the dough & fun. I’d rather watch a movie, which reminds me, I am the only person on earth who hasn’t seen Avatar. :lol: Gonna watch that tomorrow...
If these so called purists would like to develop The Filipino language, how about redeveloping its traditional alphabet system, baybayin.

Honestly I don't find "Filipino" that exciting with the exception of how some people talk with different accents and dialects. Its probably because you guys use a western alphabet system when it comes to writing. I would be supportive of this revival idea... to a certain degree. :)
It's kind of strange that while I consider myself fluent (native speaker almost) in Cebuano and Filipino, I could never write an academic discourse in Cebuano. It's almost always and invariably done in English and Filipino. Any true blue Cebuano would feel something, anything at all, for his maternal tongue rather than accept the status quo and fait accompli. And this is vis-à-vis any of the other languages which came after in life, like Spanish, English or Tagalog. I am speaking for myself and had based it as well on the experience of the vast majority of Cebuano speakers here.
that is why the most practical solution is to trash this "national" language. we do have official languages. the tagalogs can use english and tagalog if they want. besides to be practical, all we need is to strengthen our english fluency. it's the most practical thing to do. and each region can have it's own official languages too and have those languages taught in their schools.

though i agree with sky harbor too. we can re-engineer the "filipino" language. at no cost pro bono, and scholars of the state can come up with a "better" filipino language than what we have now, though i still would say it's more practical to just have official languages. besides more than 50years ago, the malolos constitution declared spanish to be the language of the "independent" republic. and more than 50years ago, the nation were mostly speaking in spanish, our chinese grandfather and his friends speaks spanish and it was already in the 50's. our grandpa came to the philippines during the american era. Let’s keep our fingers crossed, till then… :)
I am not sure if I am right but when I was young and attended school in Manila, I remember being taught that tagalog is the National Language. When did it really start calling the language "filipino" which is tagalog base? I just happen to start thinking about these and recalled what I was informed as a child, or perhaps I am misinformed? you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles.
Once burned, twice shy?:lol: Do you know who this is? Is he actually Cebuano?
There is really nothing implied there my friend, it is what it is.
I have posted my stand previously. I have already said I am personally not against learning Tagalog (because I do think it does serve me some purpose, like conversing with my GF), but if it were up to me I would prefer to learn the 3 languages in this manner:
First, to be taught Cebuano as a first language, and then English along with it (you know how it is with young kids being taught rudimentary English like counting, colors, names of common things etc.).
And then by 4th or 5th grade, I can learn Tagalog as a subject in school.
I demanded I be taught Cebuano formally in school and that is that. The source of my complaint is that basically, I should have been able to be truly literate in Cebuano had I been taught my own native tongue in school. You don't really understand, probably, how a regional citizen feels when his own language is relegated to the status of being used only outside of the sphere of academic pursuits. It is forbidden or discouraged to enter the classrooms.
There's this feeling of dissonance that I've only come to put into perspective when I came to another country where citizens live and breathe and use their own language in school. I was only lucky to have chanced upon the old Bisaya magazines of my Lola. From there I learned how to write classic Cebuano and also from the old Cebuano prayer booklets during the Commonwealth era like the ones being displayed right now at the Cebu Heritage Threads. I am happy with myself for treasuring my own maternal tongue before all others which came later, no offense of course to Spanish, English and Tagalog. But mother tongue will always be mother tongue. Didn’t the good Doctor say, Ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay masahol pa sa mabahong isda.
To lighten up the serious discussion....Its Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda. The Tutsi minority are seen by Hutus as the exploiter (superior) and the Hutus as the majority as the exploited (inferior). So the 1990s genocide is a form of revenge of the Hutus against Tutsis.
Actually, the Belgians should be blamed for this. They should have curved out two nations for tutsis and hutus. Problem is they curved out nations not following this. Rwanda and Burundi are populated by Hutus and Tutsis.
Agree here!:cheers: I actually liked Tootsie rolls as a kid till much later when I realized I don’t like caramel after all. :lol:

One can’t really blame all on the Belgians, after all they’re having a sporadic mini-identity crisis of their own. They can’t decide if the dominant language should be all French or all Dutch. The problem got so serious in the 60s that the oldest catholic university, Leuven (Jesuit), was split into 2 campuses due to rising ethnic tensions. One campus for the Dutch whilst the other campus for the French. Yes, it happened. Imagine UST split into 2 campuses, along ethnic lines. Last year, a Miss Belgium was dethroned coz she was discovered on nationwide TV that she could not speak Dutch. The Flemish population was in uproar. It may sound silly, but to those concerned, it is indeed a big deal. :)

Point is, never underestimate the power of ethno-linguistic tensions. It has the huge potential of sapping a nation’s strength even if it seems so insignificant to some – hello, hello Establishment. Is any one actually listening out there to us, @Sky Harbour? Or are we going to waste another 64 years being hoodwinked into acquiescence? :lol:
With regard to Aling Dionisia's ads, yes, it's not helping the stereotyping. Blame it on the ad agencies' staff who are mostly Tagalogs. Aling who? Would this be the same as the mom of boxing legend Manny Pacquiao? To those who thought up this idea and to all the so called “adoring” fans of Pacman who lap this up with glee – how do you suppose Manny Pacquiao would truly feel deep within to have his own mother being ridiculed publicly in a country which supposedly adores him? :ohno:

Can anyone really dare come within 10 feet of the Pacman and crack a joke like that? Paging a certain forumer here who inhabits the Bicol and Halalan threads… :|
yeah thats the right word "trash" to shut up all of you who are lost that this thread is for the propagation of the english language skills in the philippines not for you to debate about filipino or tagalog..:bash::bash::bash:. Correct. :lol:

@Sky Harbour, (oh thou who art the royal blue sky and thou who art the royal blue sea) :lol:
Did you see my delicious theology post sa economy threads? kaya lang natakot sila at tinanggal, e. :lol:
Remember yesterday at the Halalan Threads wherein 4 of us were on the same side of candidates but yet we were seemingly bashing each other?( To the merriment of the opposite camp, of course). That can be attributed to the different levels of English comprehension and skill. I am wary of Almario etal because in the not too distant past, they through their spokesperson Patricia Licuanan had posted several articles expressing their desire to push for an all Filipino educational system. This will sideline English in areas where it is needed most, like in the Sciences, Medicine, Engineering, Commerce, Law and Mathematics.

This thread, contrary to its title, had barely touched on any proposals to strengthen English? :lol: un saludo, SuperMercato (not to be confused with the Italian grocery chain + mi nuevo titulo = the poor rich slave Spartacus who will enjoy Carpe Diem and watch Avatar Blue) ... rich in humour only, that is :lol:

We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)

That is evidently caused by deep trauma... @Ron, I must say we’ve had better experiences here, give and take the few oddballs here and there. Yes, there are indeed decent and objective professionals at the N.U.S. There are indeed still some Filipinos who had learned to adapt to their academic standards and even thrive here. Howbeit one cannot argue against success.

Unlike you though, I had never attended any public ceremony nor anything of the sort, couldn’t be bothered by those. I’m a practical dude, just work here for the dough & fun. I’d rather watch a movie, which reminds me, I am the only person on earth who hasn’t seen Avatar. :lol: Gonna watch that tomorrow...
I would be supportive of this revival idea... to a certain degree. :)
Any true blue Cebuano would feel something, anything at all, for his maternal tongue rather than accept the status quo and fait accompli. And this is vis-à-vis any of the other languages which came after in life, like Spanish, English or Tagalog. I am speaking for myself and had based it as well on the experience of the vast majority of Cebuano speakers here.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed, till then… :)
you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles.
Do you know who this is? Is he actually Cebuano?
I was only lucky to have chanced upon the old Bisaya magazines of my Lola. From there I learned how to write classic Cebuano and also from the old Cebuano prayer booklets during the Commonwealth era like the ones being displayed right now at the Cebu Heritage Threads. I am happy with myself for treasuring my own maternal tongue before all others which came later, no offense of course to Spanish, English and Tagalog. But mother tongue will always be mother tongue. Didn’t the good Doctor say, Ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay masahol pa sa mabahong isda.
I actually liked Tootsie rolls as a kid till much later when I realized I don’t like caramel after all. :lol:

One can’t really blame all on the Belgians, after all they’re having a sporadic mini-identity crisis of their own. They can’t decide if the dominant language should be all French or all Dutch. The problem got so serious in the 60s that the oldest catholic university, Leuven (Jesuit), was split into 2 campuses due to rising ethnic tensions. One campus for the Dutch whilst the other campus for the French. Yes, it happened. Imagine UST split into 2 campuses, along ethnic lines. Last year, a Miss Belgium was dethroned coz she was discovered on nationwide TV that she could not speak Dutch. The Flemish population was in uproar. It may sound silly, but to those concerned, it is indeed a big deal. :)

Point is, never underestimate the power of ethno-linguistic tensions. It has the huge potential of sapping a nation’s strength even if it seems so insignificant to some – hello, hello Establishment. Is any one actually listening out there to us, @Sky Harbour? Or are we going to waste another 64 years being hoodwinked into acquiescence? :lol:
Aling who? Would this be the same as the mom of boxing legend Manny Pacquiao? To those who thought up this idea and to all the so called “adoring” fans of Pacman who lap this up with glee – how do you suppose Manny Pacquiao would truly feel deep within to have his own mother being ridiculed publicly in a country which supposedly adores him? :ohno:

Can anyone really dare come within 10 feet of the Pacman and crack a joke like that? Paging a certain forumer here who inhabits the Bicol and Halalan threads… :|
Correct. :lol:

@Sky Harbour, (oh thou who art the royal blue sky and thou who art the royal blue sea) :lol:
Did you see my delicious theology post sa economy threads? kaya lang natakot sila at tinanggal, e. :lol:
Remember yesterday at the Halalan Threads wherein 4 of us were on the same side of candidates but yet we were seemingly bashing each other?( To the merriment of the opposite camp, of course). That can be attributed to the different levels of English comprehension and skill. I am wary of Almario etal because in the not too distant past, they through their spokesperson Patricia Licuanan had posted several articles expressing their desire to push for an all Filipino educational system. This will sideline English in areas where it is needed most, like in the Sciences, Medicine, Engineering, Commerce, Law and Mathematics.

This thread, contrary to its title, had barely touched on any proposals to strengthen English? :lol: un saludo, SuperMercato (not to be confused with the Italian grocery chain + mi nuevo titulo = the poor rich slave Spartacus who will enjoy Carpe Diem and watch Avatar Blue) ... rich in humour only, that is :lol:

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.

We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)

That is evidently caused by deep trauma... @Ron, I must say we’ve had better experiences here, give and take the few oddballs here and there. Yes, there are indeed decent and objective professionals at the N.U.S. There are indeed still some Filipinos who had learned to adapt to their academic standards and even thrive here. Howbeit one cannot argue against success.

Unlike you though, I had never attended any public ceremony nor anything of the sort, couldn’t be bothered by those. I’m a practical dude, just work here for the dough & fun. I’d rather watch a movie, which reminds me, I am the only person on earth who hasn’t seen Avatar. :lol: Gonna watch that tomorrow...
I would be supportive of this revival idea... to a certain degree. :)
Any true blue Cebuano would feel something, anything at all, for his maternal tongue rather than accept the status quo and fait accompli. And this is vis-à-vis any of the other languages which came after in life, like Spanish, English or Tagalog. I am speaking for myself and had based it as well on the experience of the vast majority of Cebuano speakers here.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed, till then… :)
you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles.
Do you know who this is? Is he actually Cebuano?
I was only lucky to have chanced upon the old Bisaya magazines of my Lola. From there I learned how to write classic Cebuano and also from the old Cebuano prayer booklets during the Commonwealth era like the ones being displayed right now at the Cebu Heritage Threads. I am happy with myself for treasuring my own maternal tongue before all others which came later, no offense of course to Spanish, English and Tagalog. But mother tongue will always be mother tongue. Didn’t the good Doctor say, Ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay masahol pa sa mabahong isda.
I actually liked Tootsie rolls as a kid till much later when I realized I don’t like caramel after all. :lol:

One can’t really blame all on the Belgians, after all they’re having a sporadic mini-identity crisis of their own. They can’t decide if the dominant language should be all French or all Dutch. The problem got so serious in the 60s that the oldest catholic university, Leuven (Jesuit), was split into 2 campuses due to rising ethnic tensions. One campus for the Dutch whilst the other campus for the French. Yes, it happened. Imagine UST split into 2 campuses, along ethnic lines. Last year, a Miss Belgium was dethroned coz she was discovered on nationwide TV that she could not speak Dutch. The Flemish population was in uproar. It may sound silly, but to those concerned, it is indeed a big deal. :)

Point is, never underestimate the power of ethno-linguistic tensions. It has the huge potential of sapping a nation’s strength even if it seems so insignificant to some – hello, hello Establishment. Is any one actually listening out there to us, @Sky Harbour? Or are we going to waste another 64 years being hoodwinked into acquiescence? :lol:
Aling who? Would this be the same as the mom of boxing legend Manny Pacquiao? To those who thought up this idea and to all the so called “adoring” fans of Pacman who lap this up with glee – how do you suppose Manny Pacquiao would truly feel deep within to have his own mother being ridiculed publicly in a country which supposedly adores him? :ohno:

Can anyone really dare come within 10 feet of the Pacman and crack a joke like that? Paging a certain forumer here who inhabits the Bicol and Halalan threads… :|
Correct. :lol:

@Sky Harbour, (oh thou who art the royal blue sky and thou who art the royal blue sea) :lol:
Did you see my delicious theology post sa economy threads? kaya lang natakot sila at tinanggal, e. :lol:
Remember yesterday at the Halalan Threads wherein 4 of us were on the same side of candidates but yet we were seemingly bashing each other?( To the merriment of the opposite camp, of course). That can be attributed to the different levels of English comprehension and skill. I am wary of Almario etal because in the not too distant past, they through their spokesperson Patricia Licuanan had posted several articles expressing their desire to push for an all Filipino educational system. This will sideline English in areas where it is needed most, like in the Sciences, Medicine, Engineering, Commerce, Law and Mathematics.

This thread, contrary to its title, had barely touched on any proposals to strengthen English? :lol: un saludo, SuperMercato (not to be confused with the Italian grocery chain + mi nuevo titulo = the poor rich slave Spartacus who will enjoy Carpe Diem and watch Avatar Blue) ... rich in humour only, that is :lol:

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.

We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)



That's a bit unfair statement that tagalogs bash Black Nazarene or the Santo Nino by the tagalogs when I have witnessed how Sto Nino is revered as much as the Cebuanos for the Manilenos devotion in Tondo church for Sto Nino and Quiapo in Nazarene. Even the provinces of Lagunas honor Sto Ninos. The mere fact that there might be reference to Santos in the Catholic church was brought about by the introduction of Born Again Christians by the westerners particularly by the Evangelist Christian groups. So, your claim there that the tagalogs bash such things is definitely flawed, considering the born again christians crusaders spread farther than Metro Manila, infact, a good friend of mine who is an american missionary is based in Cebu preaching and spreading the christian words around Cebu provinces and beyond.

Prior to my first experience in living in the Philippines and having traveled with my parents in many parts of the Philippines, I have actually experienced living in and outside Manila, enough to compare. This is why I mentioned before that a few cebuanos, here in SSC Philippines, keeps claiming injustices; if there is really major ones; by the tagalogs towards the Cebuanos in general as if it was just strictly towards Cebuanos yet, I see Manilenos act stupidly towards almost all provincianos including batanguenos and laguna tagalogs to fall for it's prey. But like I said before, Manila is not really a representative of Tagalog since Manila is a melting pot for all filipinos where a big population residing in Manila are from Bisayan provinces as well. Besides, filipinos just like other races, like American or other races, you would easily run into some people who would make fun of others, such as American youth would make fun of let's say chinese or filipinos from the way they talk. It's annoying I'm sure and it is similar to how Cebuanos felt like when they felt being mocked in how they speak or by their accent, but the truth is, it is how one take it. Filipinos reacted when a TV show Desperate housewife make reference to a filipino train doctors to be second class. Other non tagalogs turned their noses and ignore whose who ridicule it not because they felt helpless but they feel comfortable enough to ignore that person while with Cebuanos, they seems to rather take it deeper and very personal. I can't blame it either but are the Cebuanos not guilty of ridiculing others as well? I'm sure not all but you know that they do, not just towards tagalogs but other Non Cebuanos as well.

As far as you celebrating with pride the Cebuano first is a noble thing to do and it should be that way. There is not doubt about that and you are not being denied to tell the world how proud you are as a Cebuano and a Bisaya, however, if you are to the point that you are celebrating your pride for your heritage but in the process, pass a condescending statement towards others like the tagalog is a form of prejudicism as well. Don't get me wrong I am not really directing these towards you mercato but I was just stating it as something "in general" to those who are commiting such act whether it is a tagalog or a bisaya. There is no excuse for that what-so-ever. Because there is no other better race than other regardless of your color, race or creed.

you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles

I'm not sure, if I am really misinformed. I'd like to think I am not. I can tell I am a bit older than yourself and has witnessed much less experiencd even more about the Philippines growing up partly in the Philippines. Like what I have mentioned long time ago, my parents sent me to the Philippines and had my uncle and grandmother partly raised me while I attend school in the Philippines that I only really permanently stayed in the US before I turn 18 for obvious reason, US born citizen would also lose our citizenship pass 18 years of age without living in the US straight for 5 years atleast,so, from gradeschool to HS and part of my college years, I could have not missed that fact that tagalog was not the national language but filipino that is tagalog based. And to add to this, I never ever read anywhere in the Philippine history that english became the Philippines' national language before even during the American colonization.

We have had our countless clashes in the past. If it weren’t for the common ties that bind – our Christian heritage, I would have been all out for an independent Federal Republic. But then again, I thought no Cebuano in his right mind would dare bash the Black Nazarene anymore than any Tagalog in his right mind would dare bash the Santo Niño (something about iconic symbols there). Then I have to rethink the independence issue once again and shelve it. :lol: But honestly I blend in pretty well in both the Cebuano and the NCR esp in the southern tagalog regions because I speak both languages very fluently. I had never felt the hatred before :lol: (like how Sinjin never felt discriminated), but I still champion the cause of my mother tongue, of course. :)



That's a bit unfair statement that tagalogs bash Black Nazarene or the Santo Nino by the tagalogs when I have witnessed how Sto Nino is revered as much as the Cebuanos for the Manilenos devotion in Tondo church for Sto Nino and Quiapo in Nazarene. Even the provinces of Lagunas honor Sto Ninos. The mere fact that there might be reference to Santos in the Catholic church was brought about by the introduction of Born Again Christians by the westerners particularly by the Evangelist Christian groups. So, your claim there that the tagalogs bash such things is definitely flawed, considering the born again christians crusaders spread farther than Metro Manila, infact, a good friend of mine who is an american missionary is based in Cebu preaching and spreading the christian words around Cebu provinces and beyond.

Prior to my first experience in living in the Philippines and having traveled with my parents in many parts of the Philippines, I have actually experienced living in and outside Manila, enough to compare. This is why I mentioned before that a few cebuanos, here in SSC Philippines, keeps claiming injustices; if there is really major ones; by the tagalogs towards the Cebuanos in general as if it was just strictly towards Cebuanos yet, I see Manilenos act stupidly towards almost all provincianos including batanguenos and laguna tagalogs to fall for it's prey. But like I said before, Manila is not really a representative of Tagalog since Manila is a melting pot for all filipinos where a big population residing in Manila are from Bisayan provinces as well. Besides, filipinos just like other races, like American or other races, you would easily run into some people who would make fun of others, such as American youth would make fun of let's say chinese or filipinos from the way they talk. It's annoying I'm sure and it is similar to how Cebuanos felt like when they felt being mocked in how they speak or by their accent, but the truth is, it is how one take it. Filipinos reacted when a TV show Desperate housewife make reference to a filipino train doctors to be second class. Other non tagalogs turned their noses and ignore whose who ridicule it not because they felt helpless but they feel comfortable enough to ignore that person while with Cebuanos, they seems to rather take it deeper and very personal. I can't blame it either but are the Cebuanos not guilty of ridiculing others as well? I'm sure not all but you know that they do, not just towards tagalogs but other Non Cebuanos as well.

As far as you celebrating with pride the Cebuano first is a noble thing to do and it should be that way. There is not doubt about that and you are not being denied to tell the world how proud you are as a Cebuano and a Bisaya, however, if you are to the point that you are celebrating your pride for your heritage but in the process, pass a condescending statement towards others like the tagalog is a form of prejudicism as well. Don't get me wrong I am not really directing these towards you mercato but I was just stating it as something "in general" to those who are commiting such act whether it is a tagalog or a bisaya. There is no excuse for that what-so-ever. Because there is no other better race than other regardless of your color, race or creed.

you were not misinformed. Your teachers called a spade a spade back then. Nowadays, they had morphed into other more palatable titles

I'm not sure, if I am really misinformed. I'd like to think I am not. I can tell I am a bit older than yourself and has witnessed much less experiencd even more about the Philippines growing up partly in the Philippines. Like what I have mentioned long time ago, my parents sent me to the Philippines and had my uncle and grandmother partly raised me while I attend school in the Philippines that I only really permanently stayed in the US before I turn 18 for obvious reason, US born citizen would also lose our citizenship pass 18 years of age without living in the US straight for 5 years atleast,so, from gradeschool to HS and part of my college years, I could have not missed that fact that tagalog was not the national language but filipino that is tagalog based. And to add to this, I never ever read anywhere in the Philippine history that english became the Philippines' national language before even during the American colonization.

That's a bit unfair statement that tagalogs bash Black Nazarene or the Santo Nino by the tagalogs when I have witnessed how Sto Nino is revered as much as the Cebuanos for the Manilenos devotion in Tondo church for Sto Nino and Quiapo in Nazarene. Even the provinces of Lagunas honor Sto Ninos. The mere fact that there might be reference to Santos in the Catholic church was brought about by the introduction of Born Again Christians by the westerners particularly by the Evangelist Christian groups. So, your claim there that the tagalogs bash such things is definitely flawed, considering the born again christians crusaders spread farther than Metro Manila, infact, a good friend of mine who is an american missionary is based in Cebu preaching and spreading the christian words around Cebu provinces and beyond.

Prior to my first experience in living in the Philippines and having traveled with my parents in many parts of the Philippines, I have actually experienced living in and outside Manila, enough to compare. This is why I mentioned before that a few cebuanos, here in SSC Philippines, keeps claiming injustices; if there is really major ones; by the tagalogs towards the Cebuanos in general as if it was just strictly towards Cebuanos yet, I see Manilenos act stupidly towards almost all provincianos including batanguenos and laguna tagalogs to fall for it's prey. But like I said before, Manila is not really a representative of Tagalog since Manila is a melting pot for all filipinos where a big population residing in Manila are from Bisayan provinces as well. Besides, filipinos just like other races, like American or other races, you would easily run into some people who would make fun of others, such as American youth would make fun of let's say chinese or filipinos from the way they talk. It's annoying I'm sure and it is similar to how Cebuanos felt like when they felt being mocked in how they speak or by their accent, but the truth is, it is how one take it. Filipinos reacted when a TV show Desperate housewife make reference to a filipino train doctors to be second class. Other non tagalogs turned their noses and ignore whose who ridicule it not because they felt helpless but they feel comfortable enough to ignore that person while with Cebuanos, they seems to rather take it deeper and very personal. I can't blame it either but are the Cebuanos not guilty of ridiculing others as well? I'm sure not all but you know that they do, not just towards tagalogs but other Non Cebuanos as well.

As far as you celebrating with pride the Cebuano first is a noble thing to do and it should be that way. There is not doubt about that and you are not being denied to tell the world how proud you are as a Cebuano and a Bisaya, however, if you are to the point that you are celebrating your pride for your heritage but in the process, pass a condescending statement towards others like the tagalog is a form of prejudicism as well. Don't get me wrong I am not really directing these towards you mercato but I was just stating it as something "in general" to those who are commiting such act whether it is a tagalog or a bisaya. There is no excuse for that what-so-ever. Because there is no other better race than other regardless of your color, race or creed. I said no such thing. Have a double look at my post. :lol:

I was merely playing with contrast and irony to highlight a point. That No Person would do this anymore than the Other person would do that, … you know. The main point to stress there was the common ties that bind. And you already know that I’m Catholic. (Msgr. Mercato SJ at your service who is now busy exploring liberation theology) You are correct, Tagalogs don't do such things and Cebuanos don't do such things either because of the common ties that bind. :)

@Sky Harbour,
There you see? People are in disagreement due to widely diverging levels of interpretation, even if they were after the same thing after all. :lol:

That's a bit unfair statement that tagalogs bash Black Nazarene or the Santo Nino by the tagalogs when I have witnessed how Sto Nino is revered as much as the Cebuanos for the Manilenos devotion in Tondo church for Sto Nino and Quiapo in Nazarene. Even the provinces of Lagunas honor Sto Ninos. The mere fact that there might be reference to Santos in the Catholic church was brought about by the introduction of Born Again Christians by the westerners particularly by the Evangelist Christian groups. So, your claim there that the tagalogs bash such things is definitely flawed, considering the born again christians crusaders spread farther than Metro Manila, infact, a good friend of mine who is an american missionary is based in Cebu preaching and spreading the christian words around Cebu provinces and beyond.

Prior to my first experience in living in the Philippines and having traveled with my parents in many parts of the Philippines, I have actually experienced living in and outside Manila, enough to compare. This is why I mentioned before that a few cebuanos, here in SSC Philippines, keeps claiming injustices; if there is really major ones; by the tagalogs towards the Cebuanos in general as if it was just strictly towards Cebuanos yet, I see Manilenos act stupidly towards almost all provincianos including batanguenos and laguna tagalogs to fall for it's prey. But like I said before, Manila is not really a representative of Tagalog since Manila is a melting pot for all filipinos where a big population residing in Manila are from Bisayan provinces as well. Besides, filipinos just like other races, like American or other races, you would easily run into some people who would make fun of others, such as American youth would make fun of let's say chinese or filipinos from the way they talk. It's annoying I'm sure and it is similar to how Cebuanos felt like when they felt being mocked in how they speak or by their accent, but the truth is, it is how one take it. Filipinos reacted when a TV show Desperate housewife make reference to a filipino train doctors to be second class. Other non tagalogs turned their noses and ignore whose who ridicule it not because they felt helpless but they feel comfortable enough to ignore that person while with Cebuanos, they seems to rather take it deeper and very personal. I can't blame it either but are the Cebuanos not guilty of ridiculing others as well? I'm sure not all but you know that they do, not just towards tagalogs but other Non Cebuanos as well.

As far as you celebrating with pride the Cebuano first is a noble thing to do and it should be that way. There is not doubt about that and you are not being denied to tell the world how proud you are as a Cebuano and a Bisaya, however, if you are to the point that you are celebrating your pride for your heritage but in the process, pass a condescending statement towards others like the tagalog is a form of prejudicism as well. Don't get me wrong I am not really directing these towards you mercato but I was just stating it as something "in general" to those who are commiting such act whether it is a tagalog or a bisaya. There is no excuse for that what-so-ever. Because there is no other better race than other regardless of your color, race or creed. I said no such thing. Have a double look at my post. :lol:

I was merely playing with contrast and irony to highlight a point. That No Person would do this anymore than the Other person would do that, … you know. The main point to stress there was the common ties that bind. And you already know that I’m Catholic. (Msgr. Mercato SJ at your service who is now busy exploring liberation theology) You are correct, Tagalogs don't do such things and Cebuanos don't do such things either because of the common ties that bind. :)

@Sky Harbour,
There you see? People are in disagreement due to widely diverging levels of interpretation, even if they were after the same thing after all. :lol:

Ah thanks for your confirmation. That sounds better. he he

Ah thanks for your confirmation. That sounds better. he he

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.

Very true.

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.

Very true.

Well that's because during the american colonization, the americans started offering public educations and since during the spanish colonization, not all filipinos received such benefit. Since the Americans introduced a more widespread education, they had to device their own educators to teach the locals in the Philippines so since they are pretty much the one who started educating filipinos, their medium of instruction would be english and I'm pretty sure, they were teaching Filipinos to earn some sort of a title to be the educators themselves so they can pass it on to the next level until the filipino locals/educators gain enough momentum that they can be performing the task themselves without the help of the American educators. They just helped the filipinos design the system of education in the Philippines.

As far as I remember, from the recount from my own grand mother and my great grandmother (that's right, i met my great grandmother because she live to be 99 y/o) who were both an educators themselves and that my great grandmother earned her teaching degree if you may call it as such after finishing her 6th grade. I am not sure if you guys are aware about these. They were trained very well that after 6th grade they were elegible to teach. I'm guessing she was already an adult when she finished her 6th grade. But mind you, her english and talent were impeccable, she has certificates of recognition for all her achievements.

Well that's because during the american colonization, the americans started offering public educations and since during the spanish colonization, not all filipinos received such benefit. Since the Americans introduced a more widespread education, they had to device their own educators to teach the locals in the Philippines so since they are pretty much the one who started educating filipinos, their medium of instruction would be english and I'm pretty sure, they were teaching Filipinos to earn some sort of a title to be the educators themselves so they can pass it on to the next level until the filipino locals/educators gain enough momentum that they can be performing the task themselves without the help of the American educators. They just helped the filipinos design the system of education in the Philippines.

As far as I remember, from the recount from my own grand mother and my great grandmother (that's right, i met my great grandmother because she live to be 99 y/o) who were both an educators themselves and that my great grandmother earned her teaching degree if you may call it as such after finishing her 6th grade. I am not sure if you guys are aware about these. They were trained very well that after 6th grade they were elegible to teach. I'm guessing she was already an adult when she finished her 6th grade. But mind you, her english and talent were impeccable, she has certificates of recognition for all her achievements.

If Tagalogs have Taglish, Cebuano don't have Ceblish. :0=)

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.

If Tagalogs have Taglish, Cebuano don't have Ceblish. :0=)

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.Well that's because during the american colonization, the americans started offering public educations and since during the spanish colonization, not all filipinos received such benefit. Since the Americans introduced a more widespread education, they had to device their own educators to teach the locals in the Philippines so since they are pretty much the one who started educating filipinos, their medium of instruction would be english and I'm pretty sure, they were teaching Filipinos to earn some sort of a title to be the educators themselves so they can pass it on to the next level until the filipino locals/educators gain enough momentum that they can be performing the task themselves without the help of the American educators. They just helped the filipinos design the system of education in the Philippines.

As far as I remember, from the recount from my own grand mother and my great grandmother (that's right, i met my great grandmother because she live to be 99 y/o) who were both an educators themselves and that my great grandmother earned her teaching degree if you may call it as such after finishing her 6th grade. I am not sure if you guys are aware about these. They were trained very well that after 6th grade they were elegible to teach. I'm guessing she was already an adult when she finished her 6th grade. But mind you, her english and talent were impeccable, she has certificates of recognition for all her achievements.Same impression here with my elders, very interesting. Our elders all had the same uniform impression then. I believe the Thomasites (as part of the invading force ala Sigourney Weaver’s scientific team to teach the Na’vi) must have been picked from the best educators from the US at that time, as part of the team to pacify the islanders. Of course, it follows that their first and second generations of students were also very good.

I took a peek over the fence, couldn’t resist. Yea, when you & tigs get to meet your new chocolate loving friend, I would recommend See’s or Ghirardelli, this one’s really good. There’s one Ghirardelli behind Borders and the Water Tower Place along Michigan Ave. If he’s still not satiated you can cross the street yonder to the Cheesecake Factory, right underneath John Hancock. :angel1:
Hmmmm....

On the other hand, I would like to know what my Tagalog friends (from the CALABARZON) think about Cebuanos....hehehehe...Ala, e kung pagbasehan yu-ong mga sinabi ng mga kaibigan kong taga Sto. Tomas, Taal, Lipa, San Juan, Candelaria, Nagcarlan, Liliw, Alaminos, Magdalena, hanggang sa Banahaw at kasama pati Cavinti (maraming nice people around) atbp, kumbaga ang pagkakilatis nila raw sa mga Cebuano ay mga cute and adorable ... :wave:

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.Why, heaven’s no, pure and utter boulderdash. We speak with a crisp British accent. :colgate:

I feel that we need to evaluate how the acquisition of the english language skills is taught in our schools probably from its inception from the americans themselves. i heard from my grandmother and mother who attended the former cebu normal school that their teachers were americans. for that matter, there was only the vernacular (cebuano) language used in the lower grades and english as the medium of instruction. i thought that my parents were better english speakers and writers than myself who is exposed to pilipino in our schools.Well that's because during the american colonization, the americans started offering public educations and since during the spanish colonization, not all filipinos received such benefit. Since the Americans introduced a more widespread education, they had to device their own educators to teach the locals in the Philippines so since they are pretty much the one who started educating filipinos, their medium of instruction would be english and I'm pretty sure, they were teaching Filipinos to earn some sort of a title to be the educators themselves so they can pass it on to the next level until the filipino locals/educators gain enough momentum that they can be performing the task themselves without the help of the American educators. They just helped the filipinos design the system of education in the Philippines.

As far as I remember, from the recount from my own grand mother and my great grandmother (that's right, i met my great grandmother because she live to be 99 y/o) who were both an educators themselves and that my great grandmother earned her teaching degree if you may call it as such after finishing her 6th grade. I am not sure if you guys are aware about these. They were trained very well that after 6th grade they were elegible to teach. I'm guessing she was already an adult when she finished her 6th grade. But mind you, her english and talent were impeccable, she has certificates of recognition for all her achievements.Same impression here with my elders, very interesting. Our elders all had the same uniform impression then. I believe the Thomasites (as part of the invading force ala Sigourney Weaver’s scientific team to teach the Na’vi) must have been picked from the best educators from the US at that time, as part of the team to pacify the islanders. Of course, it follows that their first and second generations of students were also very good.

I took a peek over the fence, couldn’t resist. Yea, when you & tigs get to meet your new chocolate loving friend, I would recommend See’s or Ghirardelli, this one’s really good. There’s one Ghirardelli behind Borders and the Water Tower Place along Michigan Ave. If he’s still not satiated you can cross the street yonder to the Cheesecake Factory, right underneath John Hancock. :angel1:
Hmmmm....

On the other hand, I would like to know what my Tagalog friends (from the CALABARZON) think about Cebuanos....hehehehe...Ala, e kung pagbasehan yu-ong mga sinabi ng mga kaibigan kong taga Sto. Tomas, Taal, Lipa, San Juan, Candelaria, Nagcarlan, Liliw, Alaminos, Magdalena, hanggang sa Banahaw at kasama pati Cavinti (maraming nice people around) atbp, kumbaga ang pagkakilatis nila raw sa mga Cebuano ay mga cute and adorable ... :wave:

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.Why, heaven’s no, pure and utter boulderdash. We speak with a crisp British accent. :colgate:

Why, heaven’s no, pure and utter boulderdash. We speak with a crisp British accent. :colgate:

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)







:jk: :nocrook:

Why, heaven’s no, pure and utter boulderdash. We speak with a crisp British accent. :colgate:

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)







:jk: :nocrook:

Same impression here with my elders, very interesting. Our elders all had the same uniform impression then. I believe the Thomasites (as part of the invading force ala Sigourney Weaver’s scientific team to teach the Na’vi) must have been picked from the best educators from the US at that time, as part of the team to pacify the islanders. Of course, it follows that their first and second generations of students were also very good.



I agree with your observation. Hmm, my paternal grandfather was also taught by an American as a child in school. Hehe, obviously he spoke it with a Filipino-English accent but the quality of English he knew was far above than what most Filipinos nowadays in my opinion. Also, my uncles and aunts were required to memorize new English words from the dictionary by my grandmother and Spanish was taught to them because they went to a private school back in the early 1980's.

A nice ebook from Google books about Philippine education: Beyond bilingualism: multilingualism and multilingual education By Jasone Cenoz, Fred Genesee (http://books.google.com/books?id=L3J3vNTOzWAC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=escuela+normal+de+maestros+philippines&source=bl&ots=RuNlDcO-aF&sig=C6OHiEkOqJJ_j8VSFB-bmBJ59sc&hl=en&ei=QCJVS9-vJomCswOzxLiKCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=escuela%20normal%20de%20maestros%20philippines&f=false)

:)

Same impression here with my elders, very interesting. Our elders all had the same uniform impression then. I believe the Thomasites (as part of the invading force ala Sigourney Weaver’s scientific team to teach the Na’vi) must have been picked from the best educators from the US at that time, as part of the team to pacify the islanders. Of course, it follows that their first and second generations of students were also very good.



I agree with your observation. Hmm, my paternal grandfather was also taught by an American as a child in school. Hehe, obviously he spoke it with a Filipino-English accent but the quality of English he knew was far above than what most Filipinos nowadays in my opinion. Also, my uncles and aunts were required to memorize new English words from the dictionary by my grandmother and Spanish was taught to them because they went to a private school back in the early 1980's.

A nice ebook from Google books about Philippine education: Beyond bilingualism: multilingualism and multilingual education By Jasone Cenoz, Fred Genesee (http://books.google.com/books?id=L3J3vNTOzWAC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=escuela+normal+de+maestros+philippines&source=bl&ots=RuNlDcO-aF&sig=C6OHiEkOqJJ_j8VSFB-bmBJ59sc&hl=en&ei=QCJVS9-vJomCswOzxLiKCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=escuela%20normal%20de%20maestros%20philippines&f=false)

:)

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)

:jk: :nocrook:

Indeed, Cebuano with Brit accent.....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)

:jk: :nocrook:

Indeed, Cebuano with Brit accent.....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)







:jk: :nocrook: bloody bollocks, rum induced typo! :lol: oh well, it's the thought that counts... :lol:

Indeed, Cebuano with Brit accent.....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: My stiff upper lip and multi-talented stiff tongue had already given many sweet pleasures, I kid thee not... :lol::lol:

Nonetheless, Cebuanos are SSC A+ = So Sweet, Cute + Adorable. :)

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist....it's spelled b a l d e r d a s h. Some Brit, you are. ;)







:jk: :nocrook: bloody bollocks, rum induced typo! :lol: oh well, it's the thought that counts... :lol:

Indeed, Cebuano with Brit accent.....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: My stiff upper lip and multi-talented stiff tongue had already given many sweet pleasures, I kid thee not... :lol::lol:

Nonetheless, Cebuanos are SSC A+ = So Sweet, Cute + Adorable. :)

I agree with your observation. Hmm, my paternal grandfather was also taught by an American as a child in school. Hehe, obviously he spoke it with a Filipino-English accent but the quality of English he knew was far above than what most Filipinos nowadays in my opinion. Also, my uncles and aunts were required to memorize new English words from the dictionary by my grandmother and Spanish was taught to them because they went to a private school back in the early 1980's.

A nice ebook from Google books about Philippine education: Beyond bilingualism: multilingualism and multilingual education By Jasone Cenoz, Fred Genesee (http://books.google.com/books?id=L3J3vNTOzWAC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=escuela+normal+de+maestros+philippines&source=bl&ots=RuNlDcO-aF&sig=C6OHiEkOqJJ_j8VSFB-bmBJ59sc&hl=en&ei=QCJVS9-vJomCswOzxLiKCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=escuela%20normal%20de%20maestros%20philippines&f=false)

:) thanks for the link, compañero... :cheers:

I agree with your observation. Hmm, my paternal grandfather was also taught by an American as a child in school. Hehe, obviously he spoke it with a Filipino-English accent but the quality of English he knew was far above than what most Filipinos nowadays in my opinion. Also, my uncles and aunts were required to memorize new English words from the dictionary by my grandmother and Spanish was taught to them because they went to a private school back in the early 1980's.

A nice ebook from Google books about Philippine education: Beyond bilingualism: multilingualism and multilingual education By Jasone Cenoz, Fred Genesee (http://books.google.com/books?id=L3J3vNTOzWAC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=escuela+normal+de+maestros+philippines&source=bl&ots=RuNlDcO-aF&sig=C6OHiEkOqJJ_j8VSFB-bmBJ59sc&hl=en&ei=QCJVS9-vJomCswOzxLiKCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=escuela%20normal%20de%20maestros%20philippines&f=false)

:) thanks for the link, compañero... :cheers:

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.

I don't think it's good, same with Taglish. :)

I beg to differ. Bislish (mixed Cebuano-English) is a rising phenomenon in itself.

I don't think it's good, same with Taglish. :)

bloody bollocks, rum induced typo! :lol: oh well, it's the thought that counts... :lol:

My stiff upper lip and multi-talented stiff tongue had already given many sweet pleasures, I kid thee not... :lol::lol:

Nonetheless, Cebuanos are SSC A+ = So Sweet, Cute + Adorable. :)

Bloody...:lol::lol::lol:

bloody bollocks, rum induced typo! :lol: oh well, it's the thought that counts... :lol:

My stiff upper lip and multi-talented stiff tongue had already given many sweet pleasures, I kid thee not... :lol::lol:

Nonetheless, Cebuanos are SSC A+ = So Sweet, Cute + Adorable. :)

Bloody...:lol::lol::lol:

FlPH09RfsuA

FlPH09RfsuA

Well, Ilocanos in the Philippines are also fluent in English. :)

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

Well, Ilocanos in the Philippines are also fluent in English. :)

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

:) I used to have a boss who is an Ilocano and got the chance to meet his "kababayan", they speak good English. In Vigan, the oldies there who sell stuff in the streets speak English. :)

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

:) I used to have a boss who is an Ilocano and got the chance to meet his "kababayan", they speak good English. In Vigan, the oldies there who sell stuff in the streets speak English. :)

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

Yes, I can attest to this also. My other brother who married an ilocana pinay has a grandmother who does not even reached 6th grade can only communicate in english and her native ilocano language. She is in her 90s now I think. But the Ilocanos do not have a problem with tagalog so they don't really mind speaking it.

Funny you should mention that Ilocanos are fluent in English. It's an often-told story of my dad that when he went to Manila for college, he can only communicate in English since he doesn't know a lick of Tagalog before he stepped foot in the nation's capital city, and that's the only language he learned in grade school and high school while in Ilocos; apart from Ilocano which is spoken at home. All the other students in the university he went to kept talking to him in English anyway because they think he was a foreign student (because my dad looks "bumbay" that's why).

Yes, I can attest to this also. My other brother who married an ilocana pinay has a grandmother who does not even reached 6th grade can only communicate in english and her native ilocano language. She is in her 90s now I think. But the Ilocanos do not have a problem with tagalog so they don't really mind speaking it.

there is a town in Zamboanga del Sur, Lakewood I think, where most of the residents speak English as first language.

According to the urban (or rural, as the town is far-flung), an American missionary taught the townspeople English, and practically the whole town speaks English.


I've never been to Lakewood but it's about 2 hours from my hometown.

there is a town in Zamboanga del Sur, Lakewood I think, where most of the residents speak English as first language.

According to the urban (or rural, as the town is far-flung), an American missionary taught the townspeople English, and practically the whole town speaks English.


I've never been to Lakewood but it's about 2 hours from my hometown.

there is a town in Zamboanga del Sur, Lakewood I think, where most of the residents speak English as first language.

According to the urban (or rural, as the town is far-flung), an American missionary taught the townspeople English, and practically the whole town speaks English.


I've never been to Lakewood but it's about 2 hours from my hometown.

The name of the town itself is sooo English. Hehehe.:lol:

there is a town in Zamboanga del Sur, Lakewood I think, where most of the residents speak English as first language.

According to the urban (or rural, as the town is far-flung), an American missionary taught the townspeople English, and practically the whole town speaks English.


I've never been to Lakewood but it's about 2 hours from my hometown.

The name of the town itself is sooo English. Hehehe.:lol:

Tagalog, Cebuano and Ilocano. This is interesting.

We forgot the huge influence of Ilocanos esp. during Marcos time. I don't know how they view the national language of the PHilippines which is derived from Tagalog language.

Well, Ilocanos in the Philippines are also fluent in English. :)

In Hawaii is part of the Ilokano empire from the days of the sugar cane workers imported by the US at the turn of the last century. (Not Marcos time.) I remember flying in like decades ago (I was still a young dude), and noticed the greeter had a tag, "Nagsarita ti Ilokano." I spoke to her in Tagalog, and she just looked at me like uh?

Tagalog, Cebuano and Ilocano. This is interesting.

We forgot the huge influence of Ilocanos esp. during Marcos time. I don't know how they view the national language of the PHilippines which is derived from Tagalog language.

Well, Ilocanos in the Philippines are also fluent in English. :)

In Hawaii is part of the Ilokano empire from the days of the sugar cane workers imported by the US at the turn of the last century. (Not Marcos time.) I remember flying in like decades ago (I was still a young dude), and noticed the greeter had a tag, "Nagsarita ti Ilokano." I spoke to her in Tagalog, and she just looked at me like uh?

I have some of Pinoy friends here in Sydney.
And I have to admit...
Filipino is the best english speaking asian people I have ever met...:cheers::cheers:
Viet, Thai, and Japanese is one of the worst in my oponion....^^^^

I have some of Pinoy friends here in Sydney.
And I have to admit...
Filipino is the best english speaking asian people I have ever met...:cheers::cheers:
Viet, Thai, and Japanese is one of the worst in my oponion....^^^^

Language, Politics and Social Mobility (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2010/02/137_60218.html)

Language is power, isn't it? Well, George Orwell affirmed that many years ago, and that still holds true.

In the Philippines and perhaps the world over, people's social standing is not just determined by how much material wealth they have. More often than not, they are judged based on how they measure up to the existing social norms; and not surprisingly, socio-linguistic competence, being one of the easiest to spot, remains one of the benchmarks.

Given this situation, it is important that we speak and write our national or official language with a certain level of mastery so that we can function well in the society where we live, which regards language proficiency as a vital factor in moving up the social ladder.

Koreans, as we all know, go a notch higher by learning English through language immersion. That accounts for the increasing number of Koreans who flock to many English-speaking countries year in and year out despite the economic crisis. The good news is that in the span of 10 years, there's been a noticeable improvement in their ability to use the language both pragmatically and strategically.

With that added skill, their future looks bright. But there are some who are skeptical about it, and would rather not pin their hopes on this bandwagon. Things need to be taken with a grain of salt for there are always two sides to every question.

Somehow, it's easy to believe that being well-versed in the English language does not necessarily mean guaranteed success. Take the case of the thousands and thousands of Filipinos who speak decent English. Have they really discovered the recipe for success? Perhaps not.

Based on experience, I know that most Filipinos can speak, write and understand English, but that "edge" ― if we can call it that ― has not significantly made their lives economically better. Nonetheless, they still put a premium on communicative competence. After all, having the gift of the gab remains a plus point for anyone desiring upward social mobility.

During the upcoming national and local elections this ``gift" will come alive as political candidates will once again have a chance, as George Orwell aptly termed it, ``to defend the indefensible" through the power of language. In the previous elections, we heard most if not all of candidates using euphemism and question-begging either to obfuscate certain issues or to follow socio-linguistic norms. On the other side of the spectrum, was the coup de grace employed by the linguistically-challenged candidates: dysphemism.

Yes, verbal warfare characterizes the election season in the Philippines.

What perhaps makes our election campaign period entirely different from that of Korea's is that Filipino candidates have options as to which language to use in putting across their message in order to convince the electorate to vote for them. The only downside is that these aspirants usually cannot express themselves in English or Filipino without resorting to code mixing and code switching. Seldom can you see or hear a Filipino engaging in a political discourse without these linguistic ``flaws." It is, of course, to some extent, tolerable. But it becomes annoying when a person does it just because he does not have a mastery of either of the two official languages.

I do not have any preference. Either language is fine as long as they can use it effectively and persuasively. The main point is: use each of them separately. Advocating language purism is far from what I have in mind for we all know that language is arbitrary and dynamic. It evolves.

It'll be a big change to see Filipino politicians engaging in debates minus the linguistic imperfections that characterize their brand of language.

Language, Politics and Social Mobility (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2010/02/137_60218.html)

Language is power, isn't it? Well, George Orwell affirmed that many years ago, and that still holds true.

In the Philippines and perhaps the world over, people's social standing is not just determined by how much material wealth they have. More often than not, they are judged based on how they measure up to the existing social norms; and not surprisingly, socio-linguistic competence, being one of the easiest to spot, remains one of the benchmarks.

Given this situation, it is important that we speak and write our national or official language with a certain level of mastery so that we can function well in the society where we live, which regards language proficiency as a vital factor in moving up the social ladder.

Koreans, as we all know, go a notch higher by learning English through language immersion. That accounts for the increasing number of Koreans who flock to many English-speaking countries year in and year out despite the economic crisis. The good news is that in the span of 10 years, there's been a noticeable improvement in their ability to use the language both pragmatically and strategically.

With that added skill, their future looks bright. But there are some who are skeptical about it, and would rather not pin their hopes on this bandwagon. Things need to be taken with a grain of salt for there are always two sides to every question.

Somehow, it's easy to believe that being well-versed in the English language does not necessarily mean guaranteed success. Take the case of the thousands and thousands of Filipinos who speak decent English. Have they really discovered the recipe for success? Perhaps not.

Based on experience, I know that most Filipinos can speak, write and understand English, but that "edge" ― if we can call it that ― has not significantly made their lives economically better. Nonetheless, they still put a premium on communicative competence. After all, having the gift of the gab remains a plus point for anyone desiring upward social mobility.

During the upcoming national and local elections this ``gift" will come alive as political candidates will once again have a chance, as George Orwell aptly termed it, ``to defend the indefensible" through the power of language. In the previous elections, we heard most if not all of candidates using euphemism and question-begging either to obfuscate certain issues or to follow socio-linguistic norms. On the other side of the spectrum, was the coup de grace employed by the linguistically-challenged candidates: dysphemism.

Yes, verbal warfare characterizes the election season in the Philippines.

What perhaps makes our election campaign period entirely different from that of Korea's is that Filipino candidates have options as to which language to use in putting across their message in order to convince the electorate to vote for them. The only downside is that these aspirants usually cannot express themselves in English or Filipino without resorting to code mixing and code switching. Seldom can you see or hear a Filipino engaging in a political discourse without these linguistic ``flaws." It is, of course, to some extent, tolerable. But it becomes annoying when a person does it just because he does not have a mastery of either of the two official languages.

I do not have any preference. Either language is fine as long as they can use it effectively and persuasively. The main point is: use each of them separately. Advocating language purism is far from what I have in mind for we all know that language is arbitrary and dynamic. It evolves.

It'll be a big change to see Filipino politicians engaging in debates minus the linguistic imperfections that characterize their brand of language.

Language, Politics and Social Mobility (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2010/02/137_60218.html)
Somehow, it's easy to believe that being well-versed in the English language does not necessarily mean guaranteed success. Take the case of the thousands and thousands of Filipinos who speak decent English. Have they really discovered the recipe for success? Perhaps not.

Based on experience, I know that most Filipinos can speak, write and understand English, but that "edge" ― if we can call it that ― has not significantly made their lives economically better. Nonetheless, they still put a premium on communicative competence. After all, having the gift of the gab remains a plus point for anyone desiring upward social mobility.

What perhaps makes our election campaign period entirely different from that of Korea's is that Filipino candidates have options as to which language to use in putting across their message in order to convince the electorate to vote for them. The only downside is that these aspirants usually cannot express themselves in English or Filipino without resorting to code mixing and code switching. Seldom can you see or hear a Filipino engaging in a political discourse without these linguistic ``flaws." It is, of course, to some extent, tolerable. But it becomes annoying when a person does it just because he does not have a mastery of either of the two official languages.


Good point!!

Language, Politics and Social Mobility (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2010/02/137_60218.html)
Somehow, it's easy to believe that being well-versed in the English language does not necessarily mean guaranteed success. Take the case of the thousands and thousands of Filipinos who speak decent English. Have they really discovered the recipe for success? Perhaps not.

Based on experience, I know that most Filipinos can speak, write and understand English, but that "edge" ― if we can call it that ― has not significantly made their lives economically better. Nonetheless, they still put a premium on communicative competence. After all, having the gift of the gab remains a plus point for anyone desiring upward social mobility.

What perhaps makes our election campaign period entirely different from that of Korea's is that Filipino candidates have options as to which language to use in putting across their message in order to convince the electorate to vote for them. The only downside is that these aspirants usually cannot express themselves in English or Filipino without resorting to code mixing and code switching. Seldom can you see or hear a Filipino engaging in a political discourse without these linguistic ``flaws." It is, of course, to some extent, tolerable. But it becomes annoying when a person does it just because he does not have a mastery of either of the two official languages.


Good point!!

I've asked a Thai waiter once if my water was filtered, purified or mineral. He told me " No! It'ch fri (free)!

Hehehehehe. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

Oh yeah, Vietnam has a growing number of fluent English speakers na. In fact BPOs have been noticing them as well. As for South Korea, wala tayong magagawa sa mga yan- tamad din mag-aral ng English, tapos mahirap silang magcode switch into English.

I've asked a Thai waiter once if my water was filtered, purified or mineral. He told me " No! It'ch fri (free)!

Hehehehehe. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

Oh yeah, Vietnam has a growing number of fluent English speakers na. In fact BPOs have been noticing them as well. As for South Korea, wala tayong magagawa sa mga yan- tamad din mag-aral ng English, tapos mahirap silang magcode switch into English.

could it be culture shock ? no offense but it happens alot. this is where it really comes in that someone who is a newly arrived person would have fascination over another culture and way of life, they try to emerse themselves fully. You would really notice these with a great number of filipinos, you dont see these too much with other asian people, these phenomena if you may call it as such usually lasted for quiet awhile but once an individual has stayed in a country particularly north america for a very long while, it dies down and then they would seek a few or limited others of their own kind to relate with because even if other races are very welcoming, there is still that little barrier that one would feel they are not truely part of.

That is so true. When I first came in here, i have to rely on my caucasian friends for me to settle down. I go to their houses for dinner, shop and go clubbing with them. I ve hardly done any of that with my two filipina friends who i only see at work. It is an odd feeling really, once you realize that youre the only brown man in the dinner table in a strange land you werent born into anyway.

could it be culture shock ? no offense but it happens alot. this is where it really comes in that someone who is a newly arrived person would have fascination over another culture and way of life, they try to emerse themselves fully. You would really notice these with a great number of filipinos, you dont see these too much with other asian people, these phenomena if you may call it as such usually lasted for quiet awhile but once an individual has stayed in a country particularly north america for a very long while, it dies down and then they would seek a few or limited others of their own kind to relate with because even if other races are very welcoming, there is still that little barrier that one would feel they are not truely part of.

That is so true. When I first came in here, i have to rely on my caucasian friends for me to settle down. I go to their houses for dinner, shop and go clubbing with them. I ve hardly done any of that with my two filipina friends who i only see at work. It is an odd feeling really, once you realize that youre the only brown man in the dinner table in a strange land you werent born into anyway.

could it be culture shock ? no offense but it happens alot. this is where it really comes in that someone who is a newly arrived person would have fascination over another culture and way of life, they try to emerse themselves fully. You would really notice these with a great number of filipinos, you dont see these too much with other asian people, these phenomena if you may call it as such usually lasted for quiet awhile but once an individual has stayed in a country particularly north america for a very long while, it dies down and then they would seek a few or limited others of their own kind to relate with because even if other races are very welcoming, there is still that little barrier that one would feel they are not truely part of.That is so true. When I first came in here, i have to rely on my caucasian friends for me to settle down. I go to their houses for dinner, shop and go clubbing with them. I ve hardly done any of that with my two filipina friends who i only see at work. It is an odd feeling really, once you realize that youre the only brown man in the dinner table in a strange land you werent born into anyway. Hell, you can say that again. :lol: What's with this stuck-up, stone cold frozen Asian mentality about bein' demure prudes? What I'm trying to say is like, in any small town in the American heartland, including Anchorage, I notice people are by nature very friendly and warm. People take the initiative and greet each other on the streets even if they're complete strangers. People say "Hi, how're you doing today?" and they take time to strike up small conversation. Try doing that with Asians (including most Flips), they will look at you like you're a crazed lunatic escapee from a mental institution. Talk about frigid people! That's why I can understand if sometimes it's easier to blend in with the Yanks in that aspect. :lol:

could it be culture shock ? no offense but it happens alot. this is where it really comes in that someone who is a newly arrived person would have fascination over another culture and way of life, they try to emerse themselves fully. You would really notice these with a great number of filipinos, you dont see these too much with other asian people, these phenomena if you may call it as such usually lasted for quiet awhile but once an individual has stayed in a country particularly north america for a very long while, it dies down and then they would seek a few or limited others of their own kind to relate with because even if other races are very welcoming, there is still that little barrier that one would feel they are not truely part of.That is so true. When I first came in here, i have to rely on my caucasian friends for me to settle down. I go to their houses for dinner, shop and go clubbing with them. I ve hardly done any of that with my two filipina friends who i only see at work. It is an odd feeling really, once you realize that youre the only brown man in the dinner table in a strange land you werent born into anyway. Hell, you can say that again. :lol: What's with this stuck-up, stone cold frozen Asian mentality about bein' demure prudes? What I'm trying to say is like, in any small town in the American heartland, including Anchorage, I notice people are by nature very friendly and warm. People take the initiative and greet each other on the streets even if they're complete strangers. People say "Hi, how're you doing today?" and they take time to strike up small conversation. Try doing that with Asians (including most Flips), they will look at you like you're a crazed lunatic escapee from a mental institution. Talk about frigid people! That's why I can understand if sometimes it's easier to blend in with the Yanks in that aspect. :lol:

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.I had the same observation years ago on this very thread but some couldn’t take constructive criticism and would rather stay ensconced in their cocoon wonderland. I also mingled with some call centre agents when I visited Manila and half of them had good English but the other half had mediocre grammar. No they don’t want to hear the bad news, being the Asians that they are, because that would cause them to lose face and it is not the Asian way to lose face. They only want to hear all good news, that’s what they want.

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.I had the same observation years ago on this very thread but some couldn’t take constructive criticism and would rather stay ensconced in their cocoon wonderland. I also mingled with some call centre agents when I visited Manila and half of them had good English but the other half had mediocre grammar. No they don’t want to hear the bad news, being the Asians that they are, because that would cause them to lose face and it is not the Asian way to lose face. They only want to hear all good news, that’s what they want.

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

:lol::lol::lol: ah yung tungkol sa ari. :lol:

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

:lol::lol::lol: ah yung tungkol sa ari. :lol:

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph I do have a soft spot for the Indonesians above some others because we had a common bond in the days of the Konfrontasi as I had discussed in another world, yes definitely I like these guys. :yes:

Alright, now (highlights in Royal Eagle Blue) as to your off the cuff remark that would make an interesting conversational piece on another thread, however, as we are within the realm of the English thread, it is incumbent upon you to speak proper English here and learn to cope, if it isn’t too taxing on one’s mental faculties that is. :colgate:

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph I do have a soft spot for the Indonesians above some others because we had a common bond in the days of the Konfrontasi as I had discussed in another world, yes definitely I like these guys. :yes:

Alright, now (highlights in Royal Eagle Blue) as to your off the cuff remark that would make an interesting conversational piece on another thread, however, as we are within the realm of the English thread, it is incumbent upon you to speak proper English here and learn to cope, if it isn’t too taxing on one’s mental faculties that is. :colgate:

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

I find it quite amusing that more than half the posts here have grammatical errors!! I guess that's why the forum title is "The Philippines as an English Speaking Nation," because the written English so far is atrocious. I'm presently in Manila on holiday (visiting from the USA) and a lot of the English I see and hear only confirms my belief. And in case any of you were wondering, I'm only referring to places where spoken English would be more prevalent such as hotels, banks, retail establishments, travel agencies, etc.

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

True, I work with a lot of expats in the Philippines and abroad and I was able to actually observe some of them teach (English) in schools abroad, I was really surprised how they all make mistakes of the most basic of grammar and spelling. I remember a Canadian teacher who spelled "pagoda" as "pogoda".

Having said that, we can't deny that there is an immediate need to improve English instruction in the Philippines. The quality of English instruction have been going downhill.

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

True, I work with a lot of expats in the Philippines and abroad and I was able to actually observe some of them teach (English) in schools abroad, I was really surprised how they all make mistakes of the most basic of grammar and spelling. I remember a Canadian teacher who spelled "pagoda" as "pogoda".

Having said that, we can't deny that there is an immediate need to improve English instruction in the Philippines. The quality of English instruction have been going downhill.

Wala lang....

Would you opt to lose your accent just to be accepted, understood clearly, and integrated fully into society?

Wala lang....

Would you opt to lose your accent just to be accepted, understood clearly, and integrated fully into society?

^^ I've tried British before. Sounded pretentious. Just use your natural accent since it's better. But then, it depends on pragmatics.

^^ I've tried British before. Sounded pretentious. Just use your natural accent since it's better. But then, it depends on pragmatics.

^^ I've tried British before. Sounded pretentious. Just use your natural accent since it's better. But then, it depends on pragmatics.

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.

^^ I've tried British before. Sounded pretentious. Just use your natural accent since it's better. But then, it depends on pragmatics.

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.
^^ Tell that to a call center agent and s/he has to prepare herself for some coaching sessions or err...fired.

I like British accent (and prefer using it) although Pinoys are way better to speak American neutral accent (or as they say, Californian accent with a Spanish soul and Asian touch), IMO. :D

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.
^^ Tell that to a call center agent and s/he has to prepare herself for some coaching sessions or err...fired.

I like British accent (and prefer using it) although Pinoys are way better to speak American neutral accent (or as they say, Californian accent with a Spanish soul and Asian touch), IMO. :D

"Bakit pa manggagaya ng ibang accent kung di naman maipilit ng dila?":bash:

Why still copying accents of Britishes or Americans? even though your own tongue doesn't follow? Filipino accent is hard, inherited from Spaniards.

H'wag lang subukan sa kapwa Pinoy, baka sabihin
"Ang arte mo naman? feeling marunong?"

"Bakit pa manggagaya ng ibang accent kung di naman maipilit ng dila?":bash:

Why still copying accents of Britishes or Americans? even though your own tongue doesn't follow? Filipino accent is hard, inherited from Spaniards.

H'wag lang subukan sa kapwa Pinoy, baka sabihin
"Ang arte mo naman? feeling marunong?"

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.

Nope, sorry. It's way way way far sounding.

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

Definitely, pinoy english is nowhere near Brit or english accent. The only thing that make it sounds close to a british english is that the english filipinos learn in school is considered a formal or proper english. American english may sound a bit different because of the slang words. Pronounciation wise, yes, it is more of an American or North American english style, there is still a very audible and distinct diffence from the american accents. It seems like filipinos may also sound like mexican or other asian countries and you can pin point it from mile high blind folded. I think it is because the stress on each words being pronounced which is usually on the first syllable so, you can tell if it is a pinoy speaking english, it doesn't matter what part or region of the Philippines you are from. It always seems the same regardless. Another thing is that, north americans usually talk as if the wind is coming out of it's noses as they speak. Another is, the typical expressions of pinoys blends with their english is a dead give away.

Speaking of accents, I actually like Australian accents better than a British accent. It sounds sweet. Very "malambing".

i like british accent better. its much closer to the philippine english accent taught in our schools.

Nope, sorry. It's way way way far sounding.

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

Definitely, pinoy english is nowhere near Brit or english accent. The only thing that make it sounds close to a british english is that the english filipinos learn in school is considered a formal or proper english. American english may sound a bit different because of the slang words. Pronounciation wise, yes, it is more of an American or North American english style, there is still a very audible and distinct diffence from the american accents. It seems like filipinos may also sound like mexican or other asian countries and you can pin point it from mile high blind folded. I think it is because the stress on each words being pronounced which is usually on the first syllable so, you can tell if it is a pinoy speaking english, it doesn't matter what part or region of the Philippines you are from. It always seems the same regardless. Another thing is that, north americans usually talk as if the wind is coming out of it's noses as they speak. Another is, the typical expressions of pinoys blends with their english is a dead give away.

Speaking of accents, I actually like Australian accents better than a British accent. It sounds sweet. Very "malambing".

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught.

Governor urge Pangasinenses to use local dialect to save it from extinction
By Eva Visperas (philstar.com) Updated August 07, 2010 03:52 PM Comments (1) View comments

LINGAYEN, Pangasinan — Governor Amado Espino Jr. is vigorously pushing for the use of Pangasinan dialect to avoid it from becoming extinct as studies showed it is becoming a dying dialect.

In his speech before members of Ulupan na Pansiansay Salitan Pangasinan (UPSP), an organization pushing for continuing use of Pangasinan dialect, during their 10th year anniversary recently, Espino said while the Capitol is the face and heart of the province, “the Pangasinan language is its soul”.

This is the reason why he directed the entire provincial government workforce to use Pangasinan as its official language every flag-raising ceremony on Mondays

The governor admitted that indeed Pangasinan is a dying language and to avoid it going extinct, every Pangasinense should do something about it.

Espino urged Pangasinenses to use the Pangasinan dialect in all local occasions, instead of Tagalog or English. He said every Pangasinense should also practice conversational Pangasinan, or if cannot be avoided, use Tagalog-Pangasinan or English-Pangasinan

Jaime Lucas, founding president of UPSP lauded Espino as the only modern provincial leader who openly endorsed Pangasinan as the official language of the Capitol and the province.

“It’s only this time that I heard a governor endorsing Pangasinan as the official language of the Capitol and the whole province,” Lucas said.

Lucas also cited data from the Associated Press saying that every two weeks, one of the 6,000 languages in the world dies, half of which is expected to be extinct by 2020.

He also lamented the fact that Pangasinan, one of the eight officially recognized languages in the Philippines, is dying.

Thus, Lucas urged parents never to be ashamed to allow, train or ask their children to know the language that they inherited from their ancestors.

Dr. Victoriano Estira, Pangasinan State University president, on the other hand, called for a stronger “Ulupan” which he said should reflect the culture, hopes and aspirations of every Pangasinense even as he pledged his support to the group.

Meanwhile, in recognition of the Espino’s effort to promote the use of the Pangasinan language, UPSP passed a resolution and awarded the same to him which makes the governor the honorary president of their group.

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught.

Governor urge Pangasinenses to use local dialect to save it from extinction
By Eva Visperas (philstar.com) Updated August 07, 2010 03:52 PM Comments (1) View comments

LINGAYEN, Pangasinan — Governor Amado Espino Jr. is vigorously pushing for the use of Pangasinan dialect to avoid it from becoming extinct as studies showed it is becoming a dying dialect.

In his speech before members of Ulupan na Pansiansay Salitan Pangasinan (UPSP), an organization pushing for continuing use of Pangasinan dialect, during their 10th year anniversary recently, Espino said while the Capitol is the face and heart of the province, “the Pangasinan language is its soul”.

This is the reason why he directed the entire provincial government workforce to use Pangasinan as its official language every flag-raising ceremony on Mondays

The governor admitted that indeed Pangasinan is a dying language and to avoid it going extinct, every Pangasinense should do something about it.

Espino urged Pangasinenses to use the Pangasinan dialect in all local occasions, instead of Tagalog or English. He said every Pangasinense should also practice conversational Pangasinan, or if cannot be avoided, use Tagalog-Pangasinan or English-Pangasinan

Jaime Lucas, founding president of UPSP lauded Espino as the only modern provincial leader who openly endorsed Pangasinan as the official language of the Capitol and the province.

“It’s only this time that I heard a governor endorsing Pangasinan as the official language of the Capitol and the whole province,” Lucas said.

Lucas also cited data from the Associated Press saying that every two weeks, one of the 6,000 languages in the world dies, half of which is expected to be extinct by 2020.

He also lamented the fact that Pangasinan, one of the eight officially recognized languages in the Philippines, is dying.

Thus, Lucas urged parents never to be ashamed to allow, train or ask their children to know the language that they inherited from their ancestors.

Dr. Victoriano Estira, Pangasinan State University president, on the other hand, called for a stronger “Ulupan” which he said should reflect the culture, hopes and aspirations of every Pangasinense even as he pledged his support to the group.

Meanwhile, in recognition of the Espino’s effort to promote the use of the Pangasinan language, UPSP passed a resolution and awarded the same to him which makes the governor the honorary president of their group.

^^Way to go Pangasinenses...Keep it up... :cheers:

^^Way to go Pangasinenses...Keep it up... :cheers:

Definitely, pinoy english is nowhere near Brit or english accent. The only thing that make it sounds close to a british english is that the english filipinos learn in school is considered a formal or proper english. It would be nice if they could use the proper english that they learned, especially something as simple as subject/verb agreement :)

American english may sound a bit different because of the slang words. There are loads of slang words in British english too, in fact in just about every language spoken.

Pronounciation wise, yes, it is more of an American or North American english style, there is still a very audible and distinct diffence from the american accents. True.

It seems like filipinos may also sound like mexican or other asian countries and you can pin point it from mile high blind folded. I think it is because the stress on each words being pronounced which is usually on the first syllable so, you can tell if it is a pinoy speaking english, it doesn't matter what part or region of the Philippines you are from. It always seems the same regardless. It's not only the accent or pronunciation, it's the word order, choice of words, etc. For example, I had to call a company to inquire about the price of a service, I could tell I had reached a call center in the Philippines because the representative (who barely had an accent http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif) said the price was "$75 only" as opposed to "it's only $75," which is what I'm used to hearing from N. Americans, Brits, & Australians. Filipinos also love to say thrice, which is rather archaic-sounding ("We called you thrice, sir"). It gets to be quite amusing after a while.

Definitely, pinoy english is nowhere near Brit or english accent. The only thing that make it sounds close to a british english is that the english filipinos learn in school is considered a formal or proper english. It would be nice if they could use the proper english that they learned, especially something as simple as subject/verb agreement :)

American english may sound a bit different because of the slang words. There are loads of slang words in British english too, in fact in just about every language spoken.

Pronounciation wise, yes, it is more of an American or North American english style, there is still a very audible and distinct diffence from the american accents. True.

It seems like filipinos may also sound like mexican or other asian countries and you can pin point it from mile high blind folded. I think it is because the stress on each words being pronounced which is usually on the first syllable so, you can tell if it is a pinoy speaking english, it doesn't matter what part or region of the Philippines you are from. It always seems the same regardless. It's not only the accent or pronunciation, it's the word order, choice of words, etc. For example, I had to call a company to inquire about the price of a service, I could tell I had reached a call center in the Philippines because the representative (who barely had an accent http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif) said the price was "$75 only" as opposed to "it's only $75," which is what I'm used to hearing from N. Americans, Brits, & Australians. Filipinos also love to say thrice, which is rather archaic-sounding ("We called you thrice, sir"). It gets to be quite amusing after a while.

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

A lot of Americans even spell Calendar as Calender :bash:

I'm amazed with this comment. I also read grammatical errors written by native English speakers in the US.

I work with 5 expats (native speakers), errors, errors, errors i.e. He don't, etc. . Well, nobody is perfect in this world.

A lot of Americans even spell Calendar as Calender :bash:

True, I work with a lot of expats in the Philippines and abroad and I was able to actually observe some of them teach (English) in schools abroad, I was really surprised how they all make mistakes of the most basic of grammar and spelling. I remember a Canadian teacher who spelled "pagoda" as "pogoda".

Having said that, we can't deny that there is an immediate need to improve English instruction in the Philippines. The quality of English instruction have been going downhill.The quality of English instruction has been going downhill. :wave: ;)

True, I work with a lot of expats in the Philippines and abroad and I was able to actually observe some of them teach (English) in schools abroad, I was really surprised how they all make mistakes of the most basic of grammar and spelling. I remember a Canadian teacher who spelled "pagoda" as "pogoda".

Having said that, we can't deny that there is an immediate need to improve English instruction in the Philippines. The quality of English instruction have been going downhill.The quality of English instruction has been going downhill. :wave: ;)

^^^^hehehe. actually, i have never come across reading it because the singular form which is "quality" would suffice. but employing the word "have" could have a resulting sentence of:

The qualities of English instruction have been going downhill.

^^^^hehehe. actually, i have never come across reading it because the singular form which is "quality" would suffice. but employing the word "have" could have a resulting sentence of:

The qualities of English instruction have been going downhill.

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

^^ The Philippine English accent is nowhere close to RP (Received Pronunciation). It's definitely closer to General American with its own idiosyncrasies.

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

That may be the case, I don't remember being drilled on pronunciation using either symbols. Not sure how it is in your school but one doesn't get to learn those unless he's probably enrolled in speech class. English classes tend to focus on grammar and reading comprehension. Oral reading is more on phrasing, intonation, and perhaps a general correction of "glaring" mistakes on the pronunciation of individual words. Pinoys, in general, learn pronunciation from heavy exposure to the mass media where most English shows being shown are US-made.

I remember a high school English teacher who had schooled in England then taught in the Middle East for years and so claimed to be using British English. However, it didn't feel comfortable listening to her lectures and the class was often at odds with the way she spoke because the students couldn't make out even some of the ordinary words. We would often whisper to each other, "Ano daw? 'Di ba ganito iyon..." Classmates who were enrolled in a speech class elective would then point out the American English counterpart.

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

That may be the case, I don't remember being drilled on pronunciation using either symbols. Not sure how it is in your school but one doesn't get to learn those unless he's probably enrolled in speech class. English classes tend to focus on grammar and reading comprehension. Oral reading is more on phrasing, intonation, and perhaps a general correction of "glaring" mistakes on the pronunciation of individual words. Pinoys, in general, learn pronunciation from heavy exposure to the mass media where most English shows being shown are US-made.

I remember a high school English teacher who had schooled in England then taught in the Middle East for years and so claimed to be using British English. However, it didn't feel comfortable listening to her lectures and the class was often at odds with the way she spoke because the students couldn't make out even some of the ordinary words. We would often whisper to each other, "Ano daw? 'Di ba ganito iyon..." Classmates who were enrolled in a speech class elective would then point out the American English counterpart.

instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

Pinoys just can't help it, our primary language is stronger because it is what we use day in and day out. When I speak bisaya to a bisaya, they can pick up a different accent from me just as how audible a bisaya accent in tagalog of any other filipino languages even in english.

The people from the Northern part of Luzon has very distinct difference in accent from those who are from the southernmost part of Luzon as well as from Manila area.

I am not sure how to explain why tagalog pronounce words differently. Heck, i can't even understand why all tagalogs from different regions have different way of pronouncing words. What? Some sort of a "mannerism" perhaps?

instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

Pinoys just can't help it, our primary language is stronger because it is what we use day in and day out. When I speak bisaya to a bisaya, they can pick up a different accent from me just as how audible a bisaya accent in tagalog of any other filipino languages even in english.

The people from the Northern part of Luzon has very distinct difference in accent from those who are from the southernmost part of Luzon as well as from Manila area.

I am not sure how to explain why tagalog pronounce words differently. Heck, i can't even understand why all tagalogs from different regions have different way of pronouncing words. What? Some sort of a "mannerism" perhaps?

It's not only the accent or pronunciation, it's the word order, choice of words, etc. For example, I had to call a company to inquire about the price of a service, I could tell I had reached a call center in the Philippines because the representative (who barely had an accent http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif) said the price was "$75 only" as opposed to "it's only $75," which is what I'm used to hearing from N. Americans, Brits, & Australians. Filipinos also love to say thrice, which is rather archaic-sounding ("We called you thrice, sir"). It gets to be quite amusing after a while.

Yep, I've encountered the same way. From first 5 mins it seems like you are talking to a local (native english speaker) then after that you would hear something different. I actually had one phone interview from a lady who sounded very american but somehow I detected something so I asked her if she is calling from the Philippines.. her giggles gave her away. For some reason, the word "avail" seems very typical to pinoys. I have not really heard any english native speaker say it. It's not a wrong english, infact, it's a bit more formal. But once I hear these, I can pretty much tell I am talking to a filipino/a. This is also a similar observation from one of my friends who happen to be a Kiwi, he immigrated from NZ just a few years ago.

It's not only the accent or pronunciation, it's the word order, choice of words, etc. For example, I had to call a company to inquire about the price of a service, I could tell I had reached a call center in the Philippines because the representative (who barely had an accent http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif) said the price was "$75 only" as opposed to "it's only $75," which is what I'm used to hearing from N. Americans, Brits, & Australians. Filipinos also love to say thrice, which is rather archaic-sounding ("We called you thrice, sir"). It gets to be quite amusing after a while.

Yep, I've encountered the same way. From first 5 mins it seems like you are talking to a local (native english speaker) then after that you would hear something different. I actually had one phone interview from a lady who sounded very american but somehow I detected something so I asked her if she is calling from the Philippines.. her giggles gave her away. For some reason, the word "avail" seems very typical to pinoys. I have not really heard any english native speaker say it. It's not a wrong english, infact, it's a bit more formal. But once I hear these, I can pretty much tell I am talking to a filipino/a. This is also a similar observation from one of my friends who happen to be a Kiwi, he immigrated from NZ just a few years ago.

There's also a level of usage. Da istandard bersyon is "traysikel". When one hails a tricyle, you don't yell out, "Tricyle!" with an American accent lest the drayber upon seeing you're as goddam brawn as a brawn can be decides to make "sagasa" of you instead of picking you up. :lol: (Iisipin ng drayber- "P.I., pare! Tayo tayo na nga lang maglolokohan pa?")

It's totally different when say, you're a college student and in front of the class doing a report. Syempre, you want to make a good impression. Syempre, you want to show your pedigree. You wouldn't want to be caught dead with your "saykel" so it becomes Americanized as "cycle". Then you conclude your report saying, "We must overcome this vicious cycle," as if you were born with a silver spoon and had the resources of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to train at Spits Pawer! :lol:

There's also a level of usage. Da istandard bersyon is "traysikel". When one hails a tricyle, you don't yell out, "Tricyle!" with an American accent lest the drayber upon seeing you're as goddam brawn as a brawn can be decides to make "sagasa" of you instead of picking you up. :lol: (Iisipin ng drayber- "P.I., pare! Tayo tayo na nga lang maglolokohan pa?")

It's totally different when say, you're a college student and in front of the class doing a report. Syempre, you want to make a good impression. Syempre, you want to show your pedigree. You wouldn't want to be caught dead with your "saykel" so it becomes Americanized as "cycle". Then you conclude your report saying, "We must overcome this vicious cycle," as if you were born with a silver spoon and had the resources of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to train at Spits Pawer! :lol:

If there is one thing Filipinos should learn is to speak straight whether its English or their native dialect.

I noticed the crime investigation asia segments in the CI channel, Filipinos who were interviewed either could not speak fluent English or are speaking in Taglish. Therefore English subtitles have to be done. Unlike the Malaysian, Singapore and even the Thai segments where the people interviewed could speak straight English.

I mean if Filipinos want to talk in their native language or taglish, its better to speak to their own kind, not in international media.

If there is one thing Filipinos should learn is to speak straight whether its English or their native dialect.

I noticed the crime investigation asia segments in the CI channel, Filipinos who were interviewed either could not speak fluent English or are speaking in Taglish. Therefore English subtitles have to be done. Unlike the Malaysian, Singapore and even the Thai segments where the people interviewed could speak straight English.

I mean if Filipinos want to talk in their native language or taglish, its better to speak to their own kind, not in international media.

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

Filipinos speaking their native dialect should be encouraged. But they should not turn their back on English since this is the language that will able for them to communicate with other countries even those with English as their 2nd language.

This is not about "white people" being superior, this is about communication. And English is the most important language in the world. So Filipinos have to adapt speaking and writing it fluently rather than foreigners adapting to learn Filipino.

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

Filipinos speaking their native dialect should be encouraged. But they should not turn their back on English since this is the language that will able for them to communicate with other countries even those with English as their 2nd language.

This is not about "white people" being superior, this is about communication. And English is the most important language in the world. So Filipinos have to adapt speaking and writing it fluently rather than foreigners adapting to learn Filipino.

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

interesting!

if you've studied speech and communication in the philippines, they're mostly based on the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) which is devised in england. while speech classes in the us never use IPA but the american phonetic alphabet.

a good example is aunt:
IPA- pronounced as ownt(phonetically thats how it sounds but not the actual ipa symbols)
APA -pronounced as ant as in ants hulmigas sa bisaya i dont know in tagalog

another common one is the ending -tion

both ipa and apa have a similar pronunciation which is shun
but pinoys tend to say shawn.
instead of saying congratulay-shun (the u is actually uh not the hard vowel u)
pilipinos usually say congratulay-shawn. the shawn ending is just killing me now as to why we do that stupid pronunciation.

btw i really want the tagalogs to explain why such words are pronounced as such in your area when its never like that in the bisaya:

cycle-sykel
pickle- pickel
popsickle - popsikel
and many more

interesting!

^^It's because Filipinos tend to pronounce every syllable as in the case of Tagalog words. Since we are used to it, we apply the same principle to English words not knowing that Englisht words have schwa (murmur) sounds. There are many of us who can speak straight English which is grammatically correct but the pronunciation is laughable. Correct grammar must come with correct diction and pronunciation. If you have that, you are a good English speaker.

^^It's because Filipinos tend to pronounce every syllable as in the case of Tagalog words. Since we are used to it, we apply the same principle to English words not knowing that Englisht words have schwa (murmur) sounds. There are many of us who can speak straight English which is grammatically correct but the pronunciation is laughable. Correct grammar must come with correct diction and pronunciation. If you have that, you are a good English speaker.

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

Englishan kayo ng inglisan at nagkakastila pa kayo...paano naman ang hindi nakakintindi...:nuts::lol:


‘Filipino’ to make Filipinos in thought, word and deed


Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:47:00 02/10/2010


EVERY TIME I GO ABROAD, I enjoy every minute of it because I learn a lot from the culture of each country I visit. Let me share an observation from a recent trip to Indonesia.

Indonesians are like Filipinos in so many ways. They also treat their guests with warmth and hospitality.

I met and had a short conversation with Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, a man who loves books (that is why I was honored to give him a copy of my book, “Conspiracies and Controversies.” After browsing through it, he said that he will surely read it).

I observed that for the people of Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with more than 240 million people, the use of their national language is a must, especially in government. When President Yudhoyono delivers a speech to his countrymen, he speaks in their national language, while foreign guests have to use monitors to understand him. Come to think of it, most countries using their national language have developed economies or are in an advance state of development. Indonesians understand each other much better by using their national language.

I can’t help making a comparison with our country. The recent “telenovela” in the halls of the Senate made the difference more unbearable after the senators lambasted each other in a language that Juan dela Cruz hardly understood.

Sen. Lito Lapid, when he started his stint in Congress in 2004, filed a resolution requesting the translation of the Senate Rules of Procedures into our national language. The Senate approved the resolution and came out with the Filipino version of the rules. But, when Congress approved a bill authored by Senator Lapid, mandating the use of Filipino language in all business transactions with accounting firms and banking institutions, to make for better understanding, especially among the inexperienced and non-English citizens, President Arroyo vetoed it. Most of the words used in banking and finance, when translated into Tagalog, are said to be “not good for public consumption.”

This is the sad state of our country and culture: so influenced by its former masters after centuries of colonization. Bombarded daily with all forms of foreign culture through the mass media, we are made to believe that “white guys” are always superior to us. This is what Indonesia and other nations could not allow: the use of media and education to brainwash their people.

I hope that we, government and people, will come to our senses and realize that in order to achieve real development, we must patronize our own, starting with our national language. We should use the “Pinoy lingo” so that our people can follow our laws with ease and understanding.

—ERICK SAN JUAN,

culdesac0002@yahoo.com.ph

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

^^It's because Filipinos tend to pronounce every syllable as in the case of Tagalog words. Since we are used to it, we apply the same principle to English words not knowing that Englisht words have schwa (murmur) sounds. There are many of us who can speak straight English which is grammatically correct but the pronunciation is laughable. Correct grammar must come with correct diction and pronunciation. If you have that, you are a good English speaker.

many of our teachers are unaware that tagalog or bisaya are syllabic in nature while english be it american or british are phonetic in nature. students hearing their teachers speaking in english syllables by syllables from the time they were in grade one until high school will be assimilated by the students when s/he is in college. the speech classes in college is supposed to refine our english accent but since we're used to listening to our teachers pronouncing it the wrong way, it takes a while to kick the bad habit and a lot of students dont bother to correct themselves after learning the IPA.

^^It's because Filipinos tend to pronounce every syllable as in the case of Tagalog words. Since we are used to it, we apply the same principle to English words not knowing that Englisht words have schwa (murmur) sounds. There are many of us who can speak straight English which is grammatically correct but the pronunciation is laughable. Correct grammar must come with correct diction and pronunciation. If you have that, you are a good English speaker.

many of our teachers are unaware that tagalog or bisaya are syllabic in nature while english be it american or british are phonetic in nature. students hearing their teachers speaking in english syllables by syllables from the time they were in grade one until high school will be assimilated by the students when s/he is in college. the speech classes in college is supposed to refine our english accent but since we're used to listening to our teachers pronouncing it the wrong way, it takes a while to kick the bad habit and a lot of students dont bother to correct themselves after learning the IPA.

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught.

I agree with you on this one "BIG" as in "HUGE" time:)

Take Ireland...just visited in June. Irish are now on a reversed gear languagewise. Celtic/Gaelic are now being re-introduce, and I saw it in all their signage, directions, instructions for all tourists with an English translations at the bottom. Students are now being encourage to learn the celtic/gaelic language. Even in Scottland, they have a school out in the Glencoe area in the Scottish highlands that are now catering to North Americans with Irish/Scottish heritage to learn gaelic language. Here in Canada, the Canadian government came on board too when they introduced the "First Nations" language for the native Indians in their school system, not only a way to preserve their culture but to affirm that Canada is really a culturally diverse nation.

So...therefore Philippines, having a diverse language...I thought it is only imperative to keep one's dialect floating (region/province)and still be a part of the "Pinoy" collective culture. I admire the people of Pangasinan for pioneering on this issue.:cheers: Good for you guys...make it happen:cheers:

Now..not my intention to irked anyone or raffle any feathers, but I just can't understand how "Tagalog"/"Pilipino" bacame the Philippines' national language. May be I need a lesson 101 on this one. HELP:bash:

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught.

I agree with you on this one "BIG" as in "HUGE" time:)

Take Ireland...just visited in June. Irish are now on a reversed gear languagewise. Celtic/Gaelic are now being re-introduce, and I saw it in all their signage, directions, instructions for all tourists with an English translations at the bottom. Students are now being encourage to learn the celtic/gaelic language. Even in Scottland, they have a school out in the Glencoe area in the Scottish highlands that are now catering to North Americans with Irish/Scottish heritage to learn gaelic language. Here in Canada, the Canadian government came on board too when they introduced the "First Nations" language for the native Indians in their school system, not only a way to preserve their culture but to affirm that Canada is really a culturally diverse nation.

So...therefore Philippines, having a diverse language...I thought it is only imperative to keep one's dialect floating (region/province)and still be a part of the "Pinoy" collective culture. I admire the people of Pangasinan for pioneering on this issue.:cheers: Good for you guys...make it happen:cheers:

Now..not my intention to irked anyone or raffle any feathers, but I just can't understand how "Tagalog"/"Pilipino" bacame the Philippines' national language. May be I need a lesson 101 on this one. HELP:bash:

British accent is not at all similar to "Pinoy" accent.:ohno: must be kidding

Pinoy's accent is more likely similar to Spanish/Mexicans or even Italian

But..hey don't worry too much about the accent...just have the correct grammar, pronunciations, intonations and the occasional inflexions stress on what you intend to emphasized.

@mwg12a...Aussie's accent....I aggree with you on this one (true it is mellower) ..but I prefer the British accent.:) Specially in Shakespearian Play.

British accent is not at all similar to "Pinoy" accent.:ohno: must be kidding

Pinoy's accent is more likely similar to Spanish/Mexicans or even Italian

But..hey don't worry too much about the accent...just have the correct grammar, pronunciations, intonations and the occasional inflexions stress on what you intend to emphasized.

@mwg12a...Aussie's accent....I aggree with you on this one (true it is mellower) ..but I prefer the British accent.:) Specially in Shakespearian Play.

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

Yep...look at China, Japan, Middle East and other non-English speaking countries. Their nationalities are coming here in North America, Australia/New Zealand and the UK (in droves) just to learn English. Philippines on the other hand...already has it through our school system....just need a bit of tune up/honing and polishing.:) It is 21st century.:)

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

Yep...look at China, Japan, Middle East and other non-English speaking countries. Their nationalities are coming here in North America, Australia/New Zealand and the UK (in droves) just to learn English. Philippines on the other hand...already has it through our school system....just need a bit of tune up/honing and polishing.:) It is 21st century.:)

If there is one thing Filipinos should learn is to speak straight whether its English or their native dialect.

I noticed the crime investigation asia segments in the CI channel, Filipinos who were interviewed either could not speak fluent English or are speaking in Taglish. Therefore English subtitles have to be done. Unlike the Malaysian, Singapore and even the Thai segments where the people interviewed could speak straight English.

I mean if Filipinos want to talk in their native language or taglish, its better to speak to their own kind, not in international media.

If it's being shown international, the corresponding media is responsible for adding "captions" and subtitle to it. There are many occassion where in the US or Canada, they featured someone from another country is who speaks fluently in english had to be given captions on tv because the general public can't totally understand them. For instance the people from Liberia, speaks english as their primary language but their english is very different from the west. As we all knew, Liberia was set up by citizens of the United States as a colony for former African-American slaves. It is one of only two states in the world that was started by citizens of a political power as a settlement for former slaves from the same political power. Whenever they are being featured in a US programming, they maybe speaking english mixed with whatever liberian slang english, the US media always make it a point that while they are speaking, there is a corresponding caption at the bottom of the screen.

If there is one thing Filipinos should learn is to speak straight whether its English or their native dialect.

I noticed the crime investigation asia segments in the CI channel, Filipinos who were interviewed either could not speak fluent English or are speaking in Taglish. Therefore English subtitles have to be done. Unlike the Malaysian, Singapore and even the Thai segments where the people interviewed could speak straight English.

I mean if Filipinos want to talk in their native language or taglish, its better to speak to their own kind, not in international media.

If it's being shown international, the corresponding media is responsible for adding "captions" and subtitle to it. There are many occassion where in the US or Canada, they featured someone from another country is who speaks fluently in english had to be given captions on tv because the general public can't totally understand them. For instance the people from Liberia, speaks english as their primary language but their english is very different from the west. As we all knew, Liberia was set up by citizens of the United States as a colony for former African-American slaves. It is one of only two states in the world that was started by citizens of a political power as a settlement for former slaves from the same political power. Whenever they are being featured in a US programming, they maybe speaking english mixed with whatever liberian slang english, the US media always make it a point that while they are speaking, there is a corresponding caption at the bottom of the screen.

another thing is do you know that there are foreigners dying to find a good tutor to teach them english

in fact, in case you don't know, koreans stay here to learn english because of cheap offer

another thing is do you know that there are foreigners dying to find a good tutor to teach them english

in fact, in case you don't know, koreans stay here to learn english because of cheap offer

Filipinos are really excellent english speakers if most can just do away with mixing the language with english or the english language with tagalog phrases. It's funny that even Pnoy in one of his speeches would deliver his speech in english then add a sentence or two in their speech, the funny part is, most would say something in english and then repeat it in tagalog.

I do know that there are many Koreans are coming to the Philippines because of english language teaching schools that are cheaper at the same time, they are enjoyiing a more lucrative living in the Philippines because the value of their dollar doubles and that almost everything else are cheaper comparing to their country. Now, the Chinese especially in mainland China have a real odd way of learning english, they would prefer a WHITE instructor than any english teachers who are non-white. As in the case of one Korean Chinese American who was raised in the US and has the typical American accent, but once the name showed up and it sounded asian, then they see them as not white, they would take back the offer.

Filipinos are really excellent english speakers if most can just do away with mixing the language with english or the english language with tagalog phrases. It's funny that even Pnoy in one of his speeches would deliver his speech in english then add a sentence or two in their speech, the funny part is, most would say something in english and then repeat it in tagalog.

I do know that there are many Koreans are coming to the Philippines because of english language teaching schools that are cheaper at the same time, they are enjoyiing a more lucrative living in the Philippines because the value of their dollar doubles and that almost everything else are cheaper comparing to their country. Now, the Chinese especially in mainland China have a real odd way of learning english, they would prefer a WHITE instructor than any english teachers who are non-white. As in the case of one Korean Chinese American who was raised in the US and has the typical American accent, but once the name showed up and it sounded asian, then they see them as not white, they would take back the offer.

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

Definitely agree :applause:

Plus if he is patriotic enough to write the whole opinion in Filipino.

english is the language of internet,

english is the language of science and technology


being used to foreign language does not translate to denial of our native language

do remember, communication is one of the 'major major' key to employment

be patriotic in a right way

Definitely agree :applause:

Plus if he is patriotic enough to write the whole opinion in Filipino.

^^ But Psyche's written English is driving me nuts- no punctuations and capitalizations. :lol:

^^ But Psyche's written English is driving me nuts- no punctuations and capitalizations. :lol:

^^ But Psyche's written English is driving me nuts- no punctuations and capitalizations. :lol:

This is only the forums. He's not writing any book or essays.

BTW, another thing I noticed with many Filipinos, they tend to pronounce seconds as "secOnd", not "secEnd"

^^ But Psyche's written English is driving me nuts- no punctuations and capitalizations. :lol:

This is only the forums. He's not writing any book or essays.

BTW, another thing I noticed with many Filipinos, they tend to pronounce seconds as "secOnd", not "secEnd"

This is only the forums. He's not writing any book or essays.

BTW, another thing I noticed with many Filipinos, they tend to pronounce seconds as "secOnd", not "secEnd"

I understand. It's just me. He's also writing as if he's writing poetry instead of prose.

This is only the forums. He's not writing any book or essays.

BTW, another thing I noticed with many Filipinos, they tend to pronounce seconds as "secOnd", not "secEnd"

I understand. It's just me. He's also writing as if he's writing poetry instead of prose.

Most Amusing... :)

It used to be anathema to post English poetry and English literature in the English Thread, I remember... :lol:

Many of our nationalists in bygone days used to breathe fire and brimstone at such an unspeakable thought, dear oh dear. :rofl:

But then again I say old boy, what the dickens? :|

I love this poem... :yes:

A Dream Within a Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

Most Amusing... :)

It used to be anathema to post English poetry and English literature in the English Thread, I remember... :lol:

Many of our nationalists in bygone days used to breathe fire and brimstone at such an unspeakable thought, dear oh dear. :rofl:

But then again I say old boy, what the dickens? :|

I love this poem... :yes:

A Dream Within a Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught. There used to be one whole dedicated thread, The Regional Languages/ or Propagation of the Regional Languages Thread.

But due to its inherently incendiary material, it was deemed too subversive by the omnipotent ideologists and subsequently sent to the Twilight Zone.

Yes, several of the old forumers(now inactive) there had posted graphs and tables showing a steep decline of all regional languages. Too bad I wasn't able to save any. I see you had posted something about Pangasinan. For instance, in studies shown there in the Regional Languages Thread, it was predicted that Pangasinense would be extinct in a little over 20 years. Same as in your article.

It would be interesting to note that the steep decline or the steep downward gradient only begun towards the end of the 20th century. Can you make a wild guess as to why? :lol:

I dunno where to appropriately post this but here it goes. Seems like other regional speakers are realizing the demise of their own language because only Tagalog and English are formally taught. There used to be one whole dedicated thread, The Regional Languages/ or Propagation of the Regional Languages Thread.

But due to its inherently incendiary material, it was deemed too subversive by the omnipotent ideologists and subsequently sent to the Twilight Zone.

Yes, several of the old forumers(now inactive) there had posted graphs and tables showing a steep decline of all regional languages. Too bad I wasn't able to save any. I see you had posted something about Pangasinan. For instance, in studies shown there in the Regional Languages Thread, it was predicted that Pangasinense would be extinct in a little over 20 years. Same as in your article.

It would be interesting to note that the steep decline or the steep downward gradient only begun towards the end of the 20th century. Can you make a wild guess as to why? :lol:

I agree with you on this one "BIG" as in "HUGE" time:)

Take Ireland...just visited in June. Irish are now on a reversed gear languagewise. Celtic/Gaelic are now being re-introduce, and I saw it in all their signage, directions, instructions for all tourists with an English translations at the bottom. Students are now being encourage to learn the celtic/gaelic language. Even in Scottland, they have a school out in the Glencoe area in the Scottish highlands that are now catering to North Americans with Irish/Scottish heritage to learn gaelic language. Here in Canada, the Canadian government came on board too when they introduced the "First Nations" language for the native Indians in their school system, not only a way to preserve their culture but to affirm that Canada is really a culturally diverse nation.

So...therefore Philippines, having a diverse language...I thought it is only imperative to keep one's dialect floating (region/province)and still be a part of the "Pinoy" collective culture. I admire the people of Pangasinan for pioneering on this issue.:cheers: Good for you guys...make it happen:cheers:

Now..not my intention to irked anyone or raffle any feathers, but I just can't understand how "Tagalog"/"Pilipino" bacame the Philippines' national language. May be I need a lesson 101 on this one. HELP:bash:
From wiki

Tagalog and Filipino

In 1937, Tagalog was selected as the basis of the national language of the Philippines by the National Language Institute. In 1939, Manuel L. Quezon named the national language "Wikang Pambansâ" ("National Language").[9][10] Twenty years later, in 1959, it was renamed by then Secretary of Education, José Romero, as Pilipino to give it a national rather than ethnic label and connotation. The changing of the name did not, however, result in acceptance among non-Tagalogs, especially Cebuanos who had not accepted the selection.

In 1971, the language issue was revived once more, and a compromise solution was worked out—a "universalist" approach to the national language, to be called Filipino rather than Pilipino. When a new constitution was drawn up in 1987, it named Filipino as the national language. The constitution specified that as the Filipino language evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages.

:)

************************

The Malolos Constitution and the First Philippine Republic

http://filipino.biz.ph/history/constitution3.html#titlexii

TITLE XIV

CONSTITUTIONAL OBSERVANCE, OATH, AND LANGUAGE

Article 93. The use of languages spoken in the Philippines shall be optional. This use cannot be regulated except by virtue of law, and solely for acts of public authority and in the courts. For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.



Or from the Original Constitution…

Titulo XIV

DE LA OBSERVANCIA Y JURAMENTO CONSTITUCIONAL, Y DE LOS IDIOMAS.

Art. 93. El empleo de las lenguas usadas en Filipinas es potestativo. No puede regularse sino por la ley, y solamente para los actos de la autoridad pública y los asuntos judiciales. Para estos actos se usara por ahora la lengua castellana.

********************************

It does not take rocket science to understand such simple concepts as the Spirit of this Law.

The Spirit of the Law declares thus:

1. The spirit of the law had stated "use of LANGUAGES spoken" (‘tis PLURAL, NOT SINGULAR). If it was only SINGULAR the texts both in English and Spanish would have said so. Plus the preferred chosen language would have been explicitly stated in the document. I hope everyone is clear on the PLURALITY of the document, both in English and the original Spanish version.

2. Furthermore, the phrase was used, “shall be optional”. Optional is a far cry from absolute mandatory. If English had already changed to mean optional = mandatory, then the US and the UK should be reprimanded to have them change their dictionaries and thesauruses.

3. En fin, the sentence “For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.” Is pretty straightforward and any gradeschool student can understand it.

The latter day revisionist administrations after WWII completely disregarded the Spirit of the Law of their supposed First Republic. They violated Point 1, ‘twas no longer a Plurality but now a Singularity. To paraphrase Enrile during EDSA 1, if it talks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. But good heavens no, our ideologists will invent all sorts of lame excuses to hide their epic failures.

We can also be flexible with Point #2, since the Malolos Constitution was also flexible on that point. It was left to the public to decide what they want. By public, meaning the broad consensus of the WHOLE country and not just the ones holding power in the Centre.

Point #3 clearly stated the expediency to retain Spanish, “may be used in the meantime.” Only those who believe in the Malolos Constitution, the First Philippine Republic and the ideals of the men and women who framed this Constitution can understand what we’re trying to say. The revisionist administrations had also completely disregarded Point #3 in addition to their epic failures.

Latter day administrations and our holy moley ideologists proclaim thus that what they really intended is a national language based on ALL the philippine languages. Well and good intentions. But how did they do it???

Their methodologies and procedures were convoluted and skewed. They simply put into place Tagalog as number one and left it to the Fates if and when a natural mixing by osmosis will occur. That never happened and it only turned out to be a pseudo experiment akin to that of Esperanto.

A better alternative would have been to retain in the interim either English or Spanish and teach the regional languages in the respective regions, whilst the Linguists fabricate that so-called mythical Filipino language. :lol: They should introduce that complete Filipino project ONLY WHEN THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND READY and not present it and force feed it to the country in half-baked form, or worse, raw = hilao. 'Tis like, if I were to give you a newly born carabao calf and tell you matter-of-fact that the carabao calf is ready to till the ricefields. Would I put a smile or a frown on your face? That is what our ideologists had hoodwinked us all into since day 1 of independence.

There is nothing left of the Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution. :)

I agree with you on this one "BIG" as in "HUGE" time:)

Take Ireland...just visited in June. Irish are now on a reversed gear languagewise. Celtic/Gaelic are now being re-introduce, and I saw it in all their signage, directions, instructions for all tourists with an English translations at the bottom. Students are now being encourage to learn the celtic/gaelic language. Even in Scottland, they have a school out in the Glencoe area in the Scottish highlands that are now catering to North Americans with Irish/Scottish heritage to learn gaelic language. Here in Canada, the Canadian government came on board too when they introduced the "First Nations" language for the native Indians in their school system, not only a way to preserve their culture but to affirm that Canada is really a culturally diverse nation.

So...therefore Philippines, having a diverse language...I thought it is only imperative to keep one's dialect floating (region/province)and still be a part of the "Pinoy" collective culture. I admire the people of Pangasinan for pioneering on this issue.:cheers: Good for you guys...make it happen:cheers:

Now..not my intention to irked anyone or raffle any feathers, but I just can't understand how "Tagalog"/"Pilipino" bacame the Philippines' national language. May be I need a lesson 101 on this one. HELP:bash:
From wiki

Tagalog and Filipino

In 1937, Tagalog was selected as the basis of the national language of the Philippines by the National Language Institute. In 1939, Manuel L. Quezon named the national language "Wikang Pambansâ" ("National Language").[9][10] Twenty years later, in 1959, it was renamed by then Secretary of Education, José Romero, as Pilipino to give it a national rather than ethnic label and connotation. The changing of the name did not, however, result in acceptance among non-Tagalogs, especially Cebuanos who had not accepted the selection.

In 1971, the language issue was revived once more, and a compromise solution was worked out—a "universalist" approach to the national language, to be called Filipino rather than Pilipino. When a new constitution was drawn up in 1987, it named Filipino as the national language. The constitution specified that as the Filipino language evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages.

:)

************************

The Malolos Constitution and the First Philippine Republic

http://filipino.biz.ph/history/constitution3.html#titlexii

TITLE XIV

CONSTITUTIONAL OBSERVANCE, OATH, AND LANGUAGE

Article 93. The use of languages spoken in the Philippines shall be optional. This use cannot be regulated except by virtue of law, and solely for acts of public authority and in the courts. For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.



Or from the Original Constitution…

Titulo XIV

DE LA OBSERVANCIA Y JURAMENTO CONSTITUCIONAL, Y DE LOS IDIOMAS.

Art. 93. El empleo de las lenguas usadas en Filipinas es potestativo. No puede regularse sino por la ley, y solamente para los actos de la autoridad pública y los asuntos judiciales. Para estos actos se usara por ahora la lengua castellana.

********************************

It does not take rocket science to understand such simple concepts as the Spirit of this Law.

The Spirit of the Law declares thus:

1. The spirit of the law had stated "use of LANGUAGES spoken" (‘tis PLURAL, NOT SINGULAR). If it was only SINGULAR the texts both in English and Spanish would have said so. Plus the preferred chosen language would have been explicitly stated in the document. I hope everyone is clear on the PLURALITY of the document, both in English and the original Spanish version.

2. Furthermore, the phrase was used, “shall be optional”. Optional is a far cry from absolute mandatory. If English had already changed to mean optional = mandatory, then the US and the UK should be reprimanded to have them change their dictionaries and thesauruses.

3. En fin, the sentence “For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.” Is pretty straightforward and any gradeschool student can understand it.

The latter day revisionist administrations after WWII completely disregarded the Spirit of the Law of their supposed First Republic. They violated Point 1, ‘twas no longer a Plurality but now a Singularity. To paraphrase Enrile during EDSA 1, if it talks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. But good heavens no, our ideologists will invent all sorts of lame excuses to hide their epic failures.

We can also be flexible with Point #2, since the Malolos Constitution was also flexible on that point. It was left to the public to decide what they want. By public, meaning the broad consensus of the WHOLE country and not just the ones holding power in the Centre.

Point #3 clearly stated the expediency to retain Spanish, “may be used in the meantime.” Only those who believe in the Malolos Constitution, the First Philippine Republic and the ideals of the men and women who framed this Constitution can understand what we’re trying to say. The revisionist administrations had also completely disregarded Point #3 in addition to their epic failures.

Latter day administrations and our holy moley ideologists proclaim thus that what they really intended is a national language based on ALL the philippine languages. Well and good intentions. But how did they do it???

Their methodologies and procedures were convoluted and skewed. They simply put into place Tagalog as number one and left it to the Fates if and when a natural mixing by osmosis will occur. That never happened and it only turned out to be a pseudo experiment akin to that of Esperanto.

A better alternative would have been to retain in the interim either English or Spanish and teach the regional languages in the respective regions, whilst the Linguists fabricate that so-called mythical Filipino language. :lol: They should introduce that complete Filipino project ONLY WHEN THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND READY and not present it and force feed it to the country in half-baked form, or worse, raw = hilao. 'Tis like, if I were to give you a newly born carabao calf and tell you matter-of-fact that the carabao calf is ready to till the ricefields. Would I put a smile or a frown on your face? That is what our ideologists had hoodwinked us all into since day 1 of independence.

There is nothing left of the Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution. :)

The honorable peculiarities of Filipino English (http://blogs.gmanews.tv/lisandro-claudio/index.php?/archives/5-The-honorable-peculiarities-of-Filipino-English.html)

Around 15 years ago, my mother exposed her quirky patrician side when she got into a “petty” argument with her in-laws. My family was then preparing for the golden wedding anniversary of my lolo and lola, and my uncles and aunts were drafting an invitation letter. The draft invitation read “We cordially invite you to the golden wedding anniversary of Atty. Enrique Claudio and Dr. Victoria Claudio.”

Mom, always concerned with proper etiquette, objected to the use of the title “Atty.” Unlike “Dr.,” she claimed, “Atty.” was not a proper honorific, but one invented by title-obsessed Pinoys. Mom argued valiantly, but my uncles and aunts prevailed.

I was thinking of this incident the other day, so I did some research on commonly-used professional titles in the Philippines like “Atty.,” “Arch.,” and “Engr.” True enough, my mother, Prof. Dr. Sylvia Estrada-Claudio, MD, PhD (titles are really funny), was right. Miss Manners’ (Judith Martin) guide to proper etiquette does not include these three in her list of accepted English honorifics. Moreover, if you look through the two most reputable English dictionaries (Oxford and Merriam Webster), you will note the absence of these words. The less reputable dictionary.com includes “atty.,” but defines it as an abbreviation and not a title meant to precede a name. All sources, however, list Ms., Mr., Mrs., Fr., and Dr.

So why did Pinoys invent titles for professionals?

Personally, I don’t see the need for excessive and insecure claims to higher education. An “Atty.,” for me, conjures images of either a juvenile lawyer/frat boy who beats people up simply because he can or a cutthroat goon who defends everyone from plunderers to warlords (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t wonderful “Attys.” The image just bothers me). In contrast, an attorney who refers to one’s self as “Mr.” or “Ms.” conjures a man/woman of understated class and humble restraint.

I find it surprising that Filipino English would create new titles, given that our English is based on the supposedly “democratic” English of the Americans.

Unlike the case of British colonies like India or Malaysia, the English taught to Filipinos was the “egalitarian” English of the New World. American English, as conceptualized by Noah Webster, was a language rid of the superfluities and class distinctions of British English. Webster sought to simplify the language from spelling to pronunciation. Unpronounced Us were dropped (as in the case of colour becoming color), and Ss that sounded like Zs became Zs (as in the change from “organise” to “organize”). Webster also despised the upper-class English habit of clipping syllables (as in the case of “mi-li-ta-ry” being pronounced as “mi-li-try”).

For Webster, a standardized American English would allow all Americans to speak and write the same language. The British spoke different Englishes (from the Queen’s English, the Scottish brogue to cockney), which created what the fictional Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady called “verbal class distinctions.” You could tell a rich Brit from a poor one based on how he/she spoke. American English, on the other hand, would reflect the sense of equal opportunity at the center of the American dream. For Webster, all Americans would speak the same dialect regardless of their class origins.

Webster’s linguistic impulse naturally dovetailed with American Republicanism, which, in challenging British courtly governance, also challenged British courtly titles. America is not known for having lords and ladies.

So if Filipino English is based on American English, why is it more hierarchical? Why the fetish for professional titles like Atty., Arch., and Engr.? I have not conducted documentary research on this topic, but allow me to offer some hypotheses.

A simple answer would be that the Americans who colonized the Philippines encountered lowland societies that already used Iberian linguistic class markers like “Don” and “Doña.” Don and Doña, however, are not professional titles like “Atty.” So we still need to ask why we ended up inventing titles that reflect one’s educational status.

I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.

I must say though: if titles are meant to represent what societies value, we should make up new ones. Two come to mind: “Trp.” for Trapo and “Cque.” for Cacique. We routinely elect them, so we must value them.

Oh, but wait, I forgot these people already have a title: “Hon. Cong.” for honorable congressman. And that, for many reasons (not least of which is the assertion of being honorable), is the most absurd title yet.

Lisandro Claudio (“Leloy”) is a PhD Candidate in the School of Historical Studies, the University of Melbourne. He is also a lecturer (on leave) in the Department of History, Ateneo de Manila University.

For more on the history of language in the Philippines, see the considerable work of historian Vicente Rafael.

The honorable peculiarities of Filipino English (http://blogs.gmanews.tv/lisandro-claudio/index.php?/archives/5-The-honorable-peculiarities-of-Filipino-English.html)

Around 15 years ago, my mother exposed her quirky patrician side when she got into a “petty” argument with her in-laws. My family was then preparing for the golden wedding anniversary of my lolo and lola, and my uncles and aunts were drafting an invitation letter. The draft invitation read “We cordially invite you to the golden wedding anniversary of Atty. Enrique Claudio and Dr. Victoria Claudio.”

Mom, always concerned with proper etiquette, objected to the use of the title “Atty.” Unlike “Dr.,” she claimed, “Atty.” was not a proper honorific, but one invented by title-obsessed Pinoys. Mom argued valiantly, but my uncles and aunts prevailed.

I was thinking of this incident the other day, so I did some research on commonly-used professional titles in the Philippines like “Atty.,” “Arch.,” and “Engr.” True enough, my mother, Prof. Dr. Sylvia Estrada-Claudio, MD, PhD (titles are really funny), was right. Miss Manners’ (Judith Martin) guide to proper etiquette does not include these three in her list of accepted English honorifics. Moreover, if you look through the two most reputable English dictionaries (Oxford and Merriam Webster), you will note the absence of these words. The less reputable dictionary.com includes “atty.,” but defines it as an abbreviation and not a title meant to precede a name. All sources, however, list Ms., Mr., Mrs., Fr., and Dr.

So why did Pinoys invent titles for professionals?

Personally, I don’t see the need for excessive and insecure claims to higher education. An “Atty.,” for me, conjures images of either a juvenile lawyer/frat boy who beats people up simply because he can or a cutthroat goon who defends everyone from plunderers to warlords (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t wonderful “Attys.” The image just bothers me). In contrast, an attorney who refers to one’s self as “Mr.” or “Ms.” conjures a man/woman of understated class and humble restraint.

I find it surprising that Filipino English would create new titles, given that our English is based on the supposedly “democratic” English of the Americans.

Unlike the case of British colonies like India or Malaysia, the English taught to Filipinos was the “egalitarian” English of the New World. American English, as conceptualized by Noah Webster, was a language rid of the superfluities and class distinctions of British English. Webster sought to simplify the language from spelling to pronunciation. Unpronounced Us were dropped (as in the case of colour becoming color), and Ss that sounded like Zs became Zs (as in the change from “organise” to “organize”). Webster also despised the upper-class English habit of clipping syllables (as in the case of “mi-li-ta-ry” being pronounced as “mi-li-try”).

For Webster, a standardized American English would allow all Americans to speak and write the same language. The British spoke different Englishes (from the Queen’s English, the Scottish brogue to cockney), which created what the fictional Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady called “verbal class distinctions.” You could tell a rich Brit from a poor one based on how he/she spoke. American English, on the other hand, would reflect the sense of equal opportunity at the center of the American dream. For Webster, all Americans would speak the same dialect regardless of their class origins.

Webster’s linguistic impulse naturally dovetailed with American Republicanism, which, in challenging British courtly governance, also challenged British courtly titles. America is not known for having lords and ladies.

So if Filipino English is based on American English, why is it more hierarchical? Why the fetish for professional titles like Atty., Arch., and Engr.? I have not conducted documentary research on this topic, but allow me to offer some hypotheses.

A simple answer would be that the Americans who colonized the Philippines encountered lowland societies that already used Iberian linguistic class markers like “Don” and “Doña.” Don and Doña, however, are not professional titles like “Atty.” So we still need to ask why we ended up inventing titles that reflect one’s educational status.

I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.

I must say though: if titles are meant to represent what societies value, we should make up new ones. Two come to mind: “Trp.” for Trapo and “Cque.” for Cacique. We routinely elect them, so we must value them.

Oh, but wait, I forgot these people already have a title: “Hon. Cong.” for honorable congressman. And that, for many reasons (not least of which is the assertion of being honorable), is the most absurd title yet.

Lisandro Claudio (“Leloy”) is a PhD Candidate in the School of Historical Studies, the University of Melbourne. He is also a lecturer (on leave) in the Department of History, Ateneo de Manila University.

For more on the history of language in the Philippines, see the considerable work of historian Vicente Rafael.

I got nosebleed everytime I visit this thread..

IMO the Philippines is blessed for English is taught to Filipinos whether we like it or not..lol

I got nosebleed everytime I visit this thread..

IMO the Philippines is blessed for English is taught to Filipinos whether we like it or not..lol

I got nosebleed everytime I visit this thread..

IMO the Philippines is blessed for English is taught to Filipinos whether we like it or not..lol

And the fact English is already a strong part of Filipinos both historically and culturally.

The people who would want to get rid of it are doing the country more harm than good.

I got nosebleed everytime I visit this thread..

IMO the Philippines is blessed for English is taught to Filipinos whether we like it or not..lol

And the fact English is already a strong part of Filipinos both historically and culturally.

The people who would want to get rid of it are doing the country more harm than good.

^^^^ correct...kaya nga laking inggit sa atin ng China ..ngayon sapilitan na nila pinagaaral ng English mga tao dun

^^^^ correct...kaya nga laking inggit sa atin ng China ..ngayon sapilitan na nila pinagaaral ng English mga tao dun

The honorable peculiarities of Filipino English (http://blogs.gmanews.tv/lisandro-claudio/index.php?/archives/5-The-honorable-peculiarities-of-Filipino-English.html)

Around 15 years ago, my mother exposed her quirky patrician side when she got into a “petty” argument with her in-laws. My family was then preparing for the golden wedding anniversary of my lolo and lola, and my uncles and aunts were drafting an invitation letter. The draft invitation read “We cordially invite you to the golden wedding anniversary of Atty. Enrique Claudio and Dr. Victoria Claudio.”

Mom, always concerned with proper etiquette, objected to the use of the title “Atty.” Unlike “Dr.,” she claimed, “Atty.” was not a proper honorific, but one invented by title-obsessed Pinoys. Mom argued valiantly, but my uncles and aunts prevailed.

I was thinking of this incident the other day, so I did some research on commonly-used professional titles in the Philippines like “Atty.,” “Arch.,” and “Engr.” True enough, my mother, Prof. Dr. Sylvia Estrada-Claudio, MD, PhD (titles are really funny), was right. Miss Manners’ (Judith Martin) guide to proper etiquette does not include these three in her list of accepted English honorifics. Moreover, if you look through the two most reputable English dictionaries (Oxford and Merriam Webster), you will note the absence of these words. The less reputable dictionary.com includes “atty.,” but defines it as an abbreviation and not a title meant to precede a name. All sources, however, list Ms., Mr., Mrs., Fr., and Dr.

So why did Pinoys invent titles for professionals?

Personally, I don’t see the need for excessive and insecure claims to higher education. An “Atty.,” for me, conjures images of either a juvenile lawyer/frat boy who beats people up simply because he can or a cutthroat goon who defends everyone from plunderers to warlords (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t wonderful “Attys.” The image just bothers me). In contrast, an attorney who refers to one’s self as “Mr.” or “Ms.” conjures a man/woman of understated class and humble restraint.

I find it surprising that Filipino English would create new titles, given that our English is based on the supposedly “democratic” English of the Americans.

Unlike the case of British colonies like India or Malaysia, the English taught to Filipinos was the “egalitarian” English of the New World. American English, as conceptualized by Noah Webster, was a language rid of the superfluities and class distinctions of British English. Webster sought to simplify the language from spelling to pronunciation. Unpronounced Us were dropped (as in the case of colour becoming color), and Ss that sounded like Zs became Zs (as in the change from “organise” to “organize”). Webster also despised the upper-class English habit of clipping syllables (as in the case of “mi-li-ta-ry” being pronounced as “mi-li-try”).

For Webster, a standardized American English would allow all Americans to speak and write the same language. The British spoke different Englishes (from the Queen’s English, the Scottish brogue to cockney), which created what the fictional Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady called “verbal class distinctions.” You could tell a rich Brit from a poor one based on how he/she spoke. American English, on the other hand, would reflect the sense of equal opportunity at the center of the American dream. For Webster, all Americans would speak the same dialect regardless of their class origins.

Webster’s linguistic impulse naturally dovetailed with American Republicanism, which, in challenging British courtly governance, also challenged British courtly titles. America is not known for having lords and ladies.

So if Filipino English is based on American English, why is it more hierarchical? Why the fetish for professional titles like Atty., Arch., and Engr.? I have not conducted documentary research on this topic, but allow me to offer some hypotheses.

A simple answer would be that the Americans who colonized the Philippines encountered lowland societies that already used Iberian linguistic class markers like “Don” and “Doña.” Don and Doña, however, are not professional titles like “Atty.” So we still need to ask why we ended up inventing titles that reflect one’s educational status.

I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.

I must say though: if titles are meant to represent what societies value, we should make up new ones. Two come to mind: “Trp.” for Trapo and “Cque.” for Cacique. We routinely elect them, so we must value them.

Oh, but wait, I forgot these people already have a title: “Hon. Cong.” for honorable congressman. And that, for many reasons (not least of which is the assertion of being honorable), is the most absurd title yet.

Lisandro Claudio (“Leloy”) is a PhD Candidate in the School of Historical Studies, the University of Melbourne. He is also a lecturer (on leave) in the Department of History, Ateneo de Manila University.

For more on the history of language in the Philippines, see the considerable work of historian Vicente Rafael.


I believe the author effectively gives onsight on why certain forms of discrimination exist among Filipinos. Hundreds of years of experience under Spain put emphasis on hierarchy.

Even among the British who spoke one language, there were different types of "Englishes" that marked class distinctions.

The honorable peculiarities of Filipino English (http://blogs.gmanews.tv/lisandro-claudio/index.php?/archives/5-The-honorable-peculiarities-of-Filipino-English.html)

Around 15 years ago, my mother exposed her quirky patrician side when she got into a “petty” argument with her in-laws. My family was then preparing for the golden wedding anniversary of my lolo and lola, and my uncles and aunts were drafting an invitation letter. The draft invitation read “We cordially invite you to the golden wedding anniversary of Atty. Enrique Claudio and Dr. Victoria Claudio.”

Mom, always concerned with proper etiquette, objected to the use of the title “Atty.” Unlike “Dr.,” she claimed, “Atty.” was not a proper honorific, but one invented by title-obsessed Pinoys. Mom argued valiantly, but my uncles and aunts prevailed.

I was thinking of this incident the other day, so I did some research on commonly-used professional titles in the Philippines like “Atty.,” “Arch.,” and “Engr.” True enough, my mother, Prof. Dr. Sylvia Estrada-Claudio, MD, PhD (titles are really funny), was right. Miss Manners’ (Judith Martin) guide to proper etiquette does not include these three in her list of accepted English honorifics. Moreover, if you look through the two most reputable English dictionaries (Oxford and Merriam Webster), you will note the absence of these words. The less reputable dictionary.com includes “atty.,” but defines it as an abbreviation and not a title meant to precede a name. All sources, however, list Ms., Mr., Mrs., Fr., and Dr.

So why did Pinoys invent titles for professionals?

Personally, I don’t see the need for excessive and insecure claims to higher education. An “Atty.,” for me, conjures images of either a juvenile lawyer/frat boy who beats people up simply because he can or a cutthroat goon who defends everyone from plunderers to warlords (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t wonderful “Attys.” The image just bothers me). In contrast, an attorney who refers to one’s self as “Mr.” or “Ms.” conjures a man/woman of understated class and humble restraint.

I find it surprising that Filipino English would create new titles, given that our English is based on the supposedly “democratic” English of the Americans.

Unlike the case of British colonies like India or Malaysia, the English taught to Filipinos was the “egalitarian” English of the New World. American English, as conceptualized by Noah Webster, was a language rid of the superfluities and class distinctions of British English. Webster sought to simplify the language from spelling to pronunciation. Unpronounced Us were dropped (as in the case of colour becoming color), and Ss that sounded like Zs became Zs (as in the change from “organise” to “organize”). Webster also despised the upper-class English habit of clipping syllables (as in the case of “mi-li-ta-ry” being pronounced as “mi-li-try”).

For Webster, a standardized American English would allow all Americans to speak and write the same language. The British spoke different Englishes (from the Queen’s English, the Scottish brogue to cockney), which created what the fictional Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady called “verbal class distinctions.” You could tell a rich Brit from a poor one based on how he/she spoke. American English, on the other hand, would reflect the sense of equal opportunity at the center of the American dream. For Webster, all Americans would speak the same dialect regardless of their class origins.

Webster’s linguistic impulse naturally dovetailed with American Republicanism, which, in challenging British courtly governance, also challenged British courtly titles. America is not known for having lords and ladies.

So if Filipino English is based on American English, why is it more hierarchical? Why the fetish for professional titles like Atty., Arch., and Engr.? I have not conducted documentary research on this topic, but allow me to offer some hypotheses.

A simple answer would be that the Americans who colonized the Philippines encountered lowland societies that already used Iberian linguistic class markers like “Don” and “Doña.” Don and Doña, however, are not professional titles like “Atty.” So we still need to ask why we ended up inventing titles that reflect one’s educational status.

I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.

I must say though: if titles are meant to represent what societies value, we should make up new ones. Two come to mind: “Trp.” for Trapo and “Cque.” for Cacique. We routinely elect them, so we must value them.

Oh, but wait, I forgot these people already have a title: “Hon. Cong.” for honorable congressman. And that, for many reasons (not least of which is the assertion of being honorable), is the most absurd title yet.

Lisandro Claudio (“Leloy”) is a PhD Candidate in the School of Historical Studies, the University of Melbourne. He is also a lecturer (on leave) in the Department of History, Ateneo de Manila University.

For more on the history of language in the Philippines, see the considerable work of historian Vicente Rafael.


I believe the author effectively gives onsight on why certain forms of discrimination exist among Filipinos. Hundreds of years of experience under Spain put emphasis on hierarchy.

Even among the British who spoke one language, there were different types of "Englishes" that marked class distinctions.

Arrrrggghhh, I was about to go on attack mode but I saw the blue emblem damnit :blahblah: …. Ateneo & the University of Santo Tomas ought to be the custodians of the spanish language in las filipinas. :doh:
I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.
Now I suppose the poor fellow must not have stayed long enough in Las Filipinas to know the existence of such titles as Sultan, Rajah, Rani, Apo, Datu, Timawa and the Alipins? These are caste titles and were widespread in Las Filipinas for centuries upon centuries perhaps stretching as far back when the SriVijaya Empire was born in the 7th century or even beyond. The natives were already trained intensively in heirarchical societies when all of Europe was still in the Middle Ages fighting the Turks. :)

Nevertheless, that ought not to be an excuse. Since the “egalitarian” New World society was supposed to have a far greater influence with the combined double whammy of English education and Hollywood, then those concepts of master and slave should have been eliminated from the Filipino subconscious a long time ago. But something else is perpetuating it. :)

I submit my theory in bold blue. Now that’s the way to do it. The brown neocoloniser learnt well from his predecessors. In lieu of Hollywood is the omniscient and omnipotent ABSCBN & Phil. Miyerda este Media, perdon. In the highlights in blue, all one has to do is replace the word "American" with neocoloniser... :angel:

Arrrrggghhh, I was about to go on attack mode but I saw the blue emblem damnit :blahblah: …. Ateneo & the University of Santo Tomas ought to be the custodians of the spanish language in las filipinas. :doh:
I suspect the answer lies in the fundamental contradiction of the American colonial project. The Americans who occupied the Philippines justified their actions through the rhetoric of “benevolent assimilation.” In other words, they were only subjugating Filipinos in order to teach them values like American egalitarianism.

The contradiction here is obvious. How can you teach egalitarianism through a system (colonialism) that is inherently anti egalitarian? Consider that in order to successfully subjugate a people, a colonizer must manufacture a desire for his culture and his society (a desire we now call colonial mentality). In the case of the Philippines, this is exactly what the Americans did.

The power of American colonialism lay in its emphasis on education – an education that supposedly exposed Filipinos to the “wonders” of the American way of life. Through education, the American colonial state bred a new elite of Filipinos trained in a new, more “modern,” American system. People with advanced degrees like law or engineering were at the apex of this system. Their prestige, as such, not only rested on their purported intelligence, but also their mastery of the colonizer’s way of life.

This, I suspect, is the source of the magical and superstitious attachment we have to attorneys, architects and engineers. The language we use is still haunted by our colonial experience. We linguistically privilege professionals because our colonizers made us value a certain kind of white-collar work.
Now I suppose the poor fellow must not have stayed long enough in Las Filipinas to know the existence of such titles as Sultan, Rajah, Rani, Apo, Datu, Timawa and the Alipins? These are caste titles and were widespread in Las Filipinas for centuries upon centuries perhaps stretching as far back when the SriVijaya Empire was born in the 7th century or even beyond. The natives were already trained intensively in heirarchical societies when all of Europe was still in the Middle Ages fighting the Turks. :)

Nevertheless, that ought not to be an excuse. Since the “egalitarian” New World society was supposed to have a far greater influence with the combined double whammy of English education and Hollywood, then those concepts of master and slave should have been eliminated from the Filipino subconscious a long time ago. But something else is perpetuating it. :)

I submit my theory in bold blue. Now that’s the way to do it. The brown neocoloniser learnt well from his predecessors. In lieu of Hollywood is the omniscient and omnipotent ABSCBN & Phil. Miyerda este Media, perdon. In the highlights in blue, all one has to do is replace the word "American" with neocoloniser... :angel:

Looks like the coast is clear. So far so good and no violent reactions against the poems so I guess perhaps we can have another poem break. :D :D :D

THE DESTRUCTION OF SENNACHERIB

THE Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green,
That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown,
That host on the morrow lay withered and strown.

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!

And there lay the steed with his nostril all wide,
But through it there rolled not the breath of his pride;
And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf,
And cold as the spray of the rock-beating surf.

And there lay the rider distorted and pale,
With the dew on his brow, and the rust on his mail:
And the tents were all silent, the banners alone,
The lances unlifted, the trumpet unblown.

And the widows of Ashur are loud in their wail,
And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal;
And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword,
Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

"The Destruction of Sennacherib" is reprinted from Works. George Gordon Byron. London: John Murray, 1832.

Looks like the coast is clear. So far so good and no violent reactions against the poems so I guess perhaps we can have another poem break. :D :D :D

THE DESTRUCTION OF SENNACHERIB

THE Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green,
That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown,
That host on the morrow lay withered and strown.

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!

And there lay the steed with his nostril all wide,
But through it there rolled not the breath of his pride;
And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf,
And cold as the spray of the rock-beating surf.

And there lay the rider distorted and pale,
With the dew on his brow, and the rust on his mail:
And the tents were all silent, the banners alone,
The lances unlifted, the trumpet unblown.

And the widows of Ashur are loud in their wail,
And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal;
And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword,
Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

"The Destruction of Sennacherib" is reprinted from Works. George Gordon Byron. London: John Murray, 1832.

Please just one more poem for the day, hope no objections to this one. Classic Rizal, Classic Filipiniana... :D :D :D

The Life and Writings of Dr. Jose Rizal

muchisimas gracias a drrobertl_yoder

http://joserizal.info/Biography/man_and_martyr/portal.htm

TO THE FLOWERS OF HEIDELBERG

Go to my country, go foreign flowers,
Planted by the traveler on his way,
And there beneath that sky of blue
That over my beloved towers,
Speak for this traveler to say
What faith in his homeland he breathes to you.

Go and say.... Say that when the dawn
First brew your calyx open there
Beside the River Necker chill,
You saw him standing by you, very still,
Reflecting on the primrose flush you wear.

Say that when the morning light
Her toll of perfume from you wrung,
While playfully she whispered, "How I love you!"
He too murmured here above you
Tender love songs in his native tongue.

That when the rising sun the height
Of Koenigsthul in early morn first spies,
And with its tepid light
Is pouring life in valley, wood, and grove,
He greets the sun as it begins to rise,
Which in his native land is blazing straight above.

And tell them of that day he staid
And plucked you from the border of the path,
Amid the ruins of the feudal castle,
By the River Neckar, and in the sylvan shade,

Tell them what he told you
As tenderly he took
Your pliant leaves and pressed them in a book,
Where now its well-worn pages close enfold you.

Carry, carry, flowers of Rhine,
Love to every love of mine,
Peace to my country and her fertile loam,
Virtue to her women, courage to her men,
Salute those darling ones again,
Who formed the sacred circle of our home.

And when you reach that shore,
Each kiss I pres upon you now,
Deposit on the pinions of the wind,
And those I love and honor and adore
Will feel my kisses carried to their brow.

Ah, flowers, you may fare through,
Conserving still, perhaps, your native hue;
Yet, far from Fatherland, heroic loam
To which you owe your life,
The perfume will be gone from you;
For aroma is your soul; it cannot roam
Beyond the skies which saw it born, nor e'er forget.



Of course, here's my excuse to print the Original ... :lol::lol:

A LAS FLORES DE HEIDELBERG

¡Id á me Patria, id extranjeras flores
sembradas del viajero en el camino,
y bajo su azul cielo,
que guarda mis amores,
contad del peregrine
la fe que alienta por su patrio suelo!

Id y decide: decide que cuando el alba
vuestro cáliz abrió por vez primera,
cabe el Neckar helado,
le vísteis silencioso á vuestro lado
pensando en su constante primavera.

Decíd que cuando el alba,
que roba vuestro aroma,
cantos de amor jugando os susurraba,
él también murmuraba
cantos de amor en su natal idioma. . .

Que cuando el sol la cumber
del Koënigsthul en la mañana dora,
y con su tibia lumber
anima el valle, el bosque y la espesura,
el Saluda ese sol, aún en su aurora,
al que en su patria en el zenith fulgura.

Y contad aquel dia
cuando os cogía al borde del sendero,
entre las ruinas del feudal Castillo
orilla al Neckar ó en la selva umbría. . .

Llevad, llevad, ¡oh flores!
amor á mis amores
paz á mi pais y á su fecunda tierra,
salud á dulces seres
fé á sus hombres; virtud á sus mujeres,
que el paternal, sagrado hogar encierra. . .

Cuando toquéis la playa,
el beso que os imprimo
depositadlo en alas de la brisa,
porque con ella vaya,
y bese cuanto adoro, amo y estimo.

Mas, ¡ay! Llegaréis, flores,
conservaréis, quizás, vuestros colores;
pero lejos del patrio, heróico suelo,
á quien debéis la vida
perderéis los olores;
que aroma es alma, y no abandona el cielo
cuya luz viera en su nacer, ni olvida.

:bow:

Please just one more poem for the day, hope no objections to this one. Classic Rizal, Classic Filipiniana... :D :D :D

The Life and Writings of Dr. Jose Rizal

muchisimas gracias a drrobertl_yoder

http://joserizal.info/Biography/man_and_martyr/portal.htm

TO THE FLOWERS OF HEIDELBERG

Go to my country, go foreign flowers,
Planted by the traveler on his way,
And there beneath that sky of blue
That over my beloved towers,
Speak for this traveler to say
What faith in his homeland he breathes to you.

Go and say.... Say that when the dawn
First brew your calyx open there
Beside the River Necker chill,
You saw him standing by you, very still,
Reflecting on the primrose flush you wear.

Say that when the morning light
Her toll of perfume from you wrung,
While playfully she whispered, "How I love you!"
He too murmured here above you
Tender love songs in his native tongue.

That when the rising sun the height
Of Koenigsthul in early morn first spies,
And with its tepid light
Is pouring life in valley, wood, and grove,
He greets the sun as it begins to rise,
Which in his native land is blazing straight above.

And tell them of that day he staid
And plucked you from the border of the path,
Amid the ruins of the feudal castle,
By the River Neckar, and in the sylvan shade,

Tell them what he told you
As tenderly he took
Your pliant leaves and pressed them in a book,
Where now its well-worn pages close enfold you.

Carry, carry, flowers of Rhine,
Love to every love of mine,
Peace to my country and her fertile loam,
Virtue to her women, courage to her men,
Salute those darling ones again,
Who formed the sacred circle of our home.

And when you reach that shore,
Each kiss I pres upon you now,
Deposit on the pinions of the wind,
And those I love and honor and adore
Will feel my kisses carried to their brow.

Ah, flowers, you may fare through,
Conserving still, perhaps, your native hue;
Yet, far from Fatherland, heroic loam
To which you owe your life,
The perfume will be gone from you;
For aroma is your soul; it cannot roam
Beyond the skies which saw it born, nor e'er forget.



Of course, here's my excuse to print the Original ... :lol::lol:

A LAS FLORES DE HEIDELBERG

¡Id á me Patria, id extranjeras flores
sembradas del viajero en el camino,
y bajo su azul cielo,
que guarda mis amores,
contad del peregrine
la fe que alienta por su patrio suelo!

Id y decide: decide que cuando el alba
vuestro cáliz abrió por vez primera,
cabe el Neckar helado,
le vísteis silencioso á vuestro lado
pensando en su constante primavera.

Decíd que cuando el alba,
que roba vuestro aroma,
cantos de amor jugando os susurraba,
él también murmuraba
cantos de amor en su natal idioma. . .

Que cuando el sol la cumber
del Koënigsthul en la mañana dora,
y con su tibia lumber
anima el valle, el bosque y la espesura,
el Saluda ese sol, aún en su aurora,
al que en su patria en el zenith fulgura.

Y contad aquel dia
cuando os cogía al borde del sendero,
entre las ruinas del feudal Castillo
orilla al Neckar ó en la selva umbría. . .

Llevad, llevad, ¡oh flores!
amor á mis amores
paz á mi pais y á su fecunda tierra,
salud á dulces seres
fé á sus hombres; virtud á sus mujeres,
que el paternal, sagrado hogar encierra. . .

Cuando toquéis la playa,
el beso que os imprimo
depositadlo en alas de la brisa,
porque con ella vaya,
y bese cuanto adoro, amo y estimo.

Mas, ¡ay! Llegaréis, flores,
conservaréis, quizás, vuestros colores;
pero lejos del patrio, heróico suelo,
á quien debéis la vida
perderéis los olores;
que aroma es alma, y no abandona el cielo
cuya luz viera en su nacer, ni olvida.

:bow:

If you guys think we have problems communicating in English, try asking for directions in cities like Shanghai or even Bangkok

If you guys think we have problems communicating in English, try asking for directions in cities like Shanghai or even Bangkok

many of our teachers are unaware that tagalog or bisaya are syllabic in nature while english be it american or british are phonetic in nature. students hearing their teachers speaking in english syllables by syllables from the time they were in grade one until high school will be assimilated by the students when s/he is in college.

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes.

many of our teachers are unaware that tagalog or bisaya are syllabic in nature while english be it american or british are phonetic in nature. students hearing their teachers speaking in english syllables by syllables from the time they were in grade one until high school will be assimilated by the students when s/he is in college.

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes.

yes, I agree. the only time you should be concerned with your accent is if you work in a call center.

yes, I agree. the only time you should be concerned with your accent is if you work in a call center.

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes. Both good points. Pardon me as I was busy elsewhere with chores in the next room. First point, yes indeed mother tongue is mother tongue and she must reign supreme. :yes: If she has a strong influence on any other secondary tongue, then so be it. 'Tis fine. :)

Second point, you too must have read that Time article many years ago, title was something like, "Who Owns English"? Because English is now owned by all the English speaking countries in the world, each with their own styles. The article pointed out that even within the continental United States, English had evolved into many variations, from how african americans use it, the latinos, the midwesterners, from the bible belt, east coast, west coast, etc... :)

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes. Both good points. Pardon me as I was busy elsewhere with chores in the next room. First point, yes indeed mother tongue is mother tongue and she must reign supreme. :yes: If she has a strong influence on any other secondary tongue, then so be it. 'Tis fine. :)

Second point, you too must have read that Time article many years ago, title was something like, "Who Owns English"? Because English is now owned by all the English speaking countries in the world, each with their own styles. The article pointed out that even within the continental United States, English had evolved into many variations, from how african americans use it, the latinos, the midwesterners, from the bible belt, east coast, west coast, etc... :)

I like this article...

Pinoy Kasi

1, 2, 3

By Michael Tan
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:39:00 09/16/2010

Filed Under: Language, Education

HOW DID you read those numbers?

I suspect most of you would have gone, “one, two, three.” A few older Chinese-Filipino readers might have used Minnan: “chit, neng, sa.” And although Filipinized Spanish is still widely used in the Philippines for business transactions, as in “kinse pesos” for 15 pesos, seeing the numbers 1, 2, 3 rarely elicits “uno, dos, tres.”

In preparation for this column, I did show the numbers to different people to see how they would read it, and “one, two, three” came out from all 15 people I asked, including household helpers and drivers. With the family help, I asked why they didn’t go “isa, dalawa, tatlo” and they just smiled back—except for one older and wiser helper who retorted, “Akala ko kasi, test” (I thought you were giving us a test). Her younger companions quickly agreed amid laughter.

This column is about numbers and language, sparked by observing the way my own children were learning their numbers.

Let me deal first with the language part. Although I use Filipino with the children, and some family members use Filipino almost exclusively in their conversations with the children, I realize that their environment at home and in school is still oriented mainly to English. In fact, when my eldest daughter came home from her first day at her “big school” (meaning kindergarten, as distinguished from pre-school), one of her comments was that her classmates could not speak in or understand Filipino.

I was relieved to learn that Filipino is taught in kindergarten. But note that it is taught rather than used to teach. Although my gut nationalist reaction was one of alarm, I also understood that if the teachers use Filipino, the students would have a difficult time. Like it or not, English is in fact the “mother language” for the kids.

Bald Tatay

How did numbers come into the picture?

One day while I was reviewing my son’s math lessons, I thought that as a breaker I would get him to read out the numbers in different languages. He breezed through English, stuttered a bit with Putonghua Chinese (Mandarin), but was completely flabbergasted when I asked him in Filipino. I coached him, and would get him to go on his own, but he would forget, or would try to joke his way out.

He did get “isa, dalawa, tatlo” eventually, with the help of the little rhyme: “Isa, dalawa, tatlo, ang tatay mong kalbo.” But I realized I didn’t know what to use beyond the bald father, and that I didn’t know any other rhymes for teaching Filipino numbers. In English, we have the song “One, two, buckle my shoe; three, four, shut the door,” all the way up to “nine, ten, a big fat hen,” and I can tell you that song helped all my children to breeze through the numbers.

My kids had also a head start with their Chinese numbers through a nursery rhyme, using the tune of “Twinkle, twinkle little stars.” I’ll go straight to the translation: “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, my friends are here.”

I eventually learned that there is a sequel to the Filipino bald father rhyme: “apat, lima, anim, siya ay nagtanim” (4, 5, 6, he had the hair planted) but no one has been able to tell me the sequels. I’m sure they exist, and are probably better than bald fathers and hair transplants. I’m hoping they’re in one of the Aklat Adarna and Tahanan children’s books. I’ll keep readers posted if I find them.

Abacus

Why this big deal with “isa, dalawa, tatlo”?

It all goes back to theories in linguistics and anthropology, linking language to thinking processes, including those we use in math. I should say, “especially those we use in math” because math involves symbols, and language is there to help facilitate the processing of the symbols.

Just think of the way numbers are written. The Roman numerals made it almost impossible to perform basic calculations—try a simple one like multiplying 2,000 by 6 (MM x VI). It’s even more difficult with Chinese, with its system of ideographs. This does not mean math did not develop in these cultures. The Chinese developed the abacus, an amazingly simple gadget that connects hand and brain to allow not just counting but addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, with the limits on the number of digits set only by how long your abacus is.

I learned the abacus in grade school
at Xavier, where a huge replica was mounted on the blackboard. We learned to manipulate the abacus beads, reciting in Putonghua Chinese, “yi xang yi” (to get one, push up one bead), “er xang er” (to get two, push up two beads). It is a phenomenal system for linking language to the numbers and now as I tutor my two eldest children in the Singapore math used in their schools, I’m realizing the system’s principles are very similar, if not copied, from the abacus.

Numbers are cultural, and so is learning. How we learn our numbers and how we think of them give us insights into culture, including how we promote, or don’t promote, our own languages, amid strong outside influences coming in. My children, for example, picked up Spanish numbers from the cartoon “Dora,” which uses English and Spanish.

There are also important contexts to the use of numbers. I suspect that with some readers, “isa... dalawa... tatlo” makes them remember their giving an ultimatum when they got mad. “Isa!” Tatay or Nanay would holler and one scampered to hide.

The household helpers’ response to “one, two, three” as a test shows the close association of English and numbers with school, an association which may not always be pleasant, which is a shame because math can be so exciting.

The new “mother language” policy of the government, which requires the use of the predominant local language for teaching in public schools until Grade 3, could make math (and English and Science) more exciting.

The people doing the teaching materials should make sure to check how the numbers come out in the “mother language.” The reality is that even in Filipino, we do switch frequently from “one, two, three” to “isa, dalawa, tatlo” and to the Spanish words. Think about how complicated it gets in the real world. In a wet market, we ask for items in Tagalog, “dalawang kilo,” then are likely to ask how much, and to bargain, using English, Filipino or Filipinized Spanish numerals.

Math teaching could also be enriched by stories of how the numbers interface with language and culture. My older readers might remember how in the 1970s, “1, 2, 3” became part of Filipino slang, with people warning, or complaining, about “wan tu tri.” That means being swindled or deceived, the term derived from magicians putting some object into a hat, murmuring some hocus-pocus and then going, “1, 2, 3” and, voila, the object would disappear, as your money does with con artists!

* * *

Email: mtan@inquirer.com.ph

I like this article...

Pinoy Kasi

1, 2, 3

By Michael Tan
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:39:00 09/16/2010

Filed Under: Language, Education

HOW DID you read those numbers?

I suspect most of you would have gone, “one, two, three.” A few older Chinese-Filipino readers might have used Minnan: “chit, neng, sa.” And although Filipinized Spanish is still widely used in the Philippines for business transactions, as in “kinse pesos” for 15 pesos, seeing the numbers 1, 2, 3 rarely elicits “uno, dos, tres.”

In preparation for this column, I did show the numbers to different people to see how they would read it, and “one, two, three” came out from all 15 people I asked, including household helpers and drivers. With the family help, I asked why they didn’t go “isa, dalawa, tatlo” and they just smiled back—except for one older and wiser helper who retorted, “Akala ko kasi, test” (I thought you were giving us a test). Her younger companions quickly agreed amid laughter.

This column is about numbers and language, sparked by observing the way my own children were learning their numbers.

Let me deal first with the language part. Although I use Filipino with the children, and some family members use Filipino almost exclusively in their conversations with the children, I realize that their environment at home and in school is still oriented mainly to English. In fact, when my eldest daughter came home from her first day at her “big school” (meaning kindergarten, as distinguished from pre-school), one of her comments was that her classmates could not speak in or understand Filipino.

I was relieved to learn that Filipino is taught in kindergarten. But note that it is taught rather than used to teach. Although my gut nationalist reaction was one of alarm, I also understood that if the teachers use Filipino, the students would have a difficult time. Like it or not, English is in fact the “mother language” for the kids.

Bald Tatay

How did numbers come into the picture?

One day while I was reviewing my son’s math lessons, I thought that as a breaker I would get him to read out the numbers in different languages. He breezed through English, stuttered a bit with Putonghua Chinese (Mandarin), but was completely flabbergasted when I asked him in Filipino. I coached him, and would get him to go on his own, but he would forget, or would try to joke his way out.

He did get “isa, dalawa, tatlo” eventually, with the help of the little rhyme: “Isa, dalawa, tatlo, ang tatay mong kalbo.” But I realized I didn’t know what to use beyond the bald father, and that I didn’t know any other rhymes for teaching Filipino numbers. In English, we have the song “One, two, buckle my shoe; three, four, shut the door,” all the way up to “nine, ten, a big fat hen,” and I can tell you that song helped all my children to breeze through the numbers.

My kids had also a head start with their Chinese numbers through a nursery rhyme, using the tune of “Twinkle, twinkle little stars.” I’ll go straight to the translation: “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, my friends are here.”

I eventually learned that there is a sequel to the Filipino bald father rhyme: “apat, lima, anim, siya ay nagtanim” (4, 5, 6, he had the hair planted) but no one has been able to tell me the sequels. I’m sure they exist, and are probably better than bald fathers and hair transplants. I’m hoping they’re in one of the Aklat Adarna and Tahanan children’s books. I’ll keep readers posted if I find them.

Abacus

Why this big deal with “isa, dalawa, tatlo”?

It all goes back to theories in linguistics and anthropology, linking language to thinking processes, including those we use in math. I should say, “especially those we use in math” because math involves symbols, and language is there to help facilitate the processing of the symbols.

Just think of the way numbers are written. The Roman numerals made it almost impossible to perform basic calculations—try a simple one like multiplying 2,000 by 6 (MM x VI). It’s even more difficult with Chinese, with its system of ideographs. This does not mean math did not develop in these cultures. The Chinese developed the abacus, an amazingly simple gadget that connects hand and brain to allow not just counting but addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, with the limits on the number of digits set only by how long your abacus is.

I learned the abacus in grade school
at Xavier, where a huge replica was mounted on the blackboard. We learned to manipulate the abacus beads, reciting in Putonghua Chinese, “yi xang yi” (to get one, push up one bead), “er xang er” (to get two, push up two beads). It is a phenomenal system for linking language to the numbers and now as I tutor my two eldest children in the Singapore math used in their schools, I’m realizing the system’s principles are very similar, if not copied, from the abacus.

Numbers are cultural, and so is learning. How we learn our numbers and how we think of them give us insights into culture, including how we promote, or don’t promote, our own languages, amid strong outside influences coming in. My children, for example, picked up Spanish numbers from the cartoon “Dora,” which uses English and Spanish.

There are also important contexts to the use of numbers. I suspect that with some readers, “isa... dalawa... tatlo” makes them remember their giving an ultimatum when they got mad. “Isa!” Tatay or Nanay would holler and one scampered to hide.

The household helpers’ response to “one, two, three” as a test shows the close association of English and numbers with school, an association which may not always be pleasant, which is a shame because math can be so exciting.

The new “mother language” policy of the government, which requires the use of the predominant local language for teaching in public schools until Grade 3, could make math (and English and Science) more exciting.

The people doing the teaching materials should make sure to check how the numbers come out in the “mother language.” The reality is that even in Filipino, we do switch frequently from “one, two, three” to “isa, dalawa, tatlo” and to the Spanish words. Think about how complicated it gets in the real world. In a wet market, we ask for items in Tagalog, “dalawang kilo,” then are likely to ask how much, and to bargain, using English, Filipino or Filipinized Spanish numerals.

Math teaching could also be enriched by stories of how the numbers interface with language and culture. My older readers might remember how in the 1970s, “1, 2, 3” became part of Filipino slang, with people warning, or complaining, about “wan tu tri.” That means being swindled or deceived, the term derived from magicians putting some object into a hat, murmuring some hocus-pocus and then going, “1, 2, 3” and, voila, the object would disappear, as your money does with con artists!

* * *

Email: mtan@inquirer.com.ph

^^ Monosyllabic words like one, two, three, etc. roll off the tongue much easier than i-sa, da-la-wa, tat-lo, etc. But then again, that's just me. ;)

^^ Monosyllabic words like one, two, three, etc. roll off the tongue much easier than i-sa, da-la-wa, tat-lo, etc. But then again, that's just me. ;)

From wiki

Tagalog and Filipino

In 1937, Tagalog was selected as the basis of the national language of the Philippines by the National Language Institute. In 1939, Manuel L. Quezon named the national language "Wikang Pambansâ" ("National Language").[9][10] Twenty years later, in 1959, it was renamed by then Secretary of Education, José Romero, as Pilipino to give it a national rather than ethnic label and connotation. The changing of the name did not, however, result in acceptance among non-Tagalogs, especially Cebuanos who had not accepted the selection.

In 1971, the language issue was revived once more, and a compromise solution was worked out—a "universalist" approach to the national language, to be called Filipino rather than Pilipino. When a new constitution was drawn up in 1987, it named Filipino as the national language. The constitution specified that as the Filipino language evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages.

:)

************************

The Malolos Constitution and the First Philippine Republic

http://filipino.biz.ph/history/constitution3.html#titlexii

TITLE XIV

CONSTITUTIONAL OBSERVANCE, OATH, AND LANGUAGE

Article 93. The use of languages spoken in the Philippines shall be optional. This use cannot be regulated except by virtue of law, and solely for acts of public authority and in the courts. For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.



Or from the Original Constitution…

Titulo XIV

DE LA OBSERVANCIA Y JURAMENTO CONSTITUCIONAL, Y DE LOS IDIOMAS.

Art. 93. El empleo de las lenguas usadas en Filipinas es potestativo. No puede regularse sino por la ley, y solamente para los actos de la autoridad pública y los asuntos judiciales. Para estos actos se usara por ahora la lengua castellana.

********************************

It does not take rocket science to understand such simple concepts as the Spirit of this Law.

The Spirit of the Law declares thus:

1. The spirit of the law had stated "use of LANGUAGES spoken" (‘tis PLURAL, NOT SINGULAR). If it was only SINGULAR the texts both in English and Spanish would have said so. Plus the preferred chosen language would have been explicitly stated in the document. I hope everyone is clear on the PLURALITY of the document, both in English and the original Spanish version.

2. Furthermore, the phrase was used, “shall be optional”. Optional is a far cry from absolute mandatory. If English had already changed to mean optional = mandatory, then the US and the UK should be reprimanded to have them change their dictionaries and thesauruses.

3. En fin, the sentence “For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.” Is pretty straightforward and any gradeschool student can understand it.

The latter day revisionist administrations after WWII completely disregarded the Spirit of the Law of their supposed First Republic. They violated Point 1, ‘twas no longer a Plurality but now a Singularity. To paraphrase Enrile during EDSA 1, if it talks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. But good heavens no, our ideologists will invent all sorts of lame excuses to hide their epic failures.

We can also be flexible with Point #2, since the Malolos Constitution was also flexible on that point. It was left to the public to decide what they want. By public, meaning the broad consensus of the WHOLE country and not just the ones holding power in the Centre.

Point #3 clearly stated the expediency to retain Spanish, “may be used in the meantime.” Only those who believe in the Malolos Constitution, the First Philippine Republic and the ideals of the men and women who framed this Constitution can understand what we’re trying to say. The revisionist administrations had also completely disregarded Point #3 in addition to their epic failures.

Latter day administrations and our holy moley ideologists proclaim thus that what they really intended is a national language based on ALL the philippine languages. Well and good intentions. But how did they do it???

Their methodologies and procedures were convoluted and skewed. They simply put into place Tagalog as number one and left it to the Fates if and when a natural mixing by osmosis will occur. That never happened and it only turned out to be a pseudo experiment akin to that of Esperanto.

A better alternative would have been to retain in the interim either English or Spanish and teach the regional languages in the respective regions, whilst the Linguists fabricate that so-called mythical Filipino language. :lol: They should introduce that complete Filipino project ONLY WHEN THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND READY and not present it and force feed it to the country in half-baked form, or worse, raw = hilao. 'Tis like, if I were to give you a newly born carabao calf and tell you matter-of-fact that the carabao calf is ready to till the ricefields. Would I put a smile or a frown on your face? That is what our ideologists had hoodwinked us all into since day 1 of independence.

There is nothing left of the Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution. :)

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.

From wiki

Tagalog and Filipino

In 1937, Tagalog was selected as the basis of the national language of the Philippines by the National Language Institute. In 1939, Manuel L. Quezon named the national language "Wikang Pambansâ" ("National Language").[9][10] Twenty years later, in 1959, it was renamed by then Secretary of Education, José Romero, as Pilipino to give it a national rather than ethnic label and connotation. The changing of the name did not, however, result in acceptance among non-Tagalogs, especially Cebuanos who had not accepted the selection.

In 1971, the language issue was revived once more, and a compromise solution was worked out—a "universalist" approach to the national language, to be called Filipino rather than Pilipino. When a new constitution was drawn up in 1987, it named Filipino as the national language. The constitution specified that as the Filipino language evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages.

:)

************************

The Malolos Constitution and the First Philippine Republic

http://filipino.biz.ph/history/constitution3.html#titlexii

TITLE XIV

CONSTITUTIONAL OBSERVANCE, OATH, AND LANGUAGE

Article 93. The use of languages spoken in the Philippines shall be optional. This use cannot be regulated except by virtue of law, and solely for acts of public authority and in the courts. For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.



Or from the Original Constitution…

Titulo XIV

DE LA OBSERVANCIA Y JURAMENTO CONSTITUCIONAL, Y DE LOS IDIOMAS.

Art. 93. El empleo de las lenguas usadas en Filipinas es potestativo. No puede regularse sino por la ley, y solamente para los actos de la autoridad pública y los asuntos judiciales. Para estos actos se usara por ahora la lengua castellana.

********************************

It does not take rocket science to understand such simple concepts as the Spirit of this Law.

The Spirit of the Law declares thus:

1. The spirit of the law had stated "use of LANGUAGES spoken" (‘tis PLURAL, NOT SINGULAR). If it was only SINGULAR the texts both in English and Spanish would have said so. Plus the preferred chosen language would have been explicitly stated in the document. I hope everyone is clear on the PLURALITY of the document, both in English and the original Spanish version.

2. Furthermore, the phrase was used, “shall be optional”. Optional is a far cry from absolute mandatory. If English had already changed to mean optional = mandatory, then the US and the UK should be reprimanded to have them change their dictionaries and thesauruses.

3. En fin, the sentence “For these act the Spanish language may be used in the meantime.” Is pretty straightforward and any gradeschool student can understand it.

The latter day revisionist administrations after WWII completely disregarded the Spirit of the Law of their supposed First Republic. They violated Point 1, ‘twas no longer a Plurality but now a Singularity. To paraphrase Enrile during EDSA 1, if it talks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. But good heavens no, our ideologists will invent all sorts of lame excuses to hide their epic failures.

We can also be flexible with Point #2, since the Malolos Constitution was also flexible on that point. It was left to the public to decide what they want. By public, meaning the broad consensus of the WHOLE country and not just the ones holding power in the Centre.

Point #3 clearly stated the expediency to retain Spanish, “may be used in the meantime.” Only those who believe in the Malolos Constitution, the First Philippine Republic and the ideals of the men and women who framed this Constitution can understand what we’re trying to say. The revisionist administrations had also completely disregarded Point #3 in addition to their epic failures.

Latter day administrations and our holy moley ideologists proclaim thus that what they really intended is a national language based on ALL the philippine languages. Well and good intentions. But how did they do it???

Their methodologies and procedures were convoluted and skewed. They simply put into place Tagalog as number one and left it to the Fates if and when a natural mixing by osmosis will occur. That never happened and it only turned out to be a pseudo experiment akin to that of Esperanto.

A better alternative would have been to retain in the interim either English or Spanish and teach the regional languages in the respective regions, whilst the Linguists fabricate that so-called mythical Filipino language. :lol: They should introduce that complete Filipino project ONLY WHEN THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND READY and not present it and force feed it to the country in half-baked form, or worse, raw = hilao. 'Tis like, if I were to give you a newly born carabao calf and tell you matter-of-fact that the carabao calf is ready to till the ricefields. Would I put a smile or a frown on your face? That is what our ideologists had hoodwinked us all into since day 1 of independence.

There is nothing left of the Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution. :)

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

If you guys think we have problems communicating in English, try asking for directions in cities like Shanghai or even Bangkok

I have no problems communicating in English when I was in BKK in fact the locals I met was able to help me. Their English is understandable.

But I did had a hard time communicating in Shanghai. It is the one place where you will be lost in translation.

If you guys think we have problems communicating in English, try asking for directions in cities like Shanghai or even Bangkok

I have no problems communicating in English when I was in BKK in fact the locals I met was able to help me. Their English is understandable.

But I did had a hard time communicating in Shanghai. It is the one place where you will be lost in translation.

^^ Monosyllabic words like one, two, three, etc. roll off the tongue much easier than i-sa, da-la-wa, tat-lo, etc. But then again, that's just me. ;)

It's easier for Pinoys to say the numbers in English...if you ask a Pinoy whether rich or poor of his/her number, automatically, the answer is in English. I have yet to hear someone who says the cell phone number in Tagalog or in Spanish.

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

^^ Monosyllabic words like one, two, three, etc. roll off the tongue much easier than i-sa, da-la-wa, tat-lo, etc. But then again, that's just me. ;)

It's easier for Pinoys to say the numbers in English...if you ask a Pinoy whether rich or poor of his/her number, automatically, the answer is in English. I have yet to hear someone who says the cell phone number in Tagalog or in Spanish.

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

What I don't like about is thread are negative posts and articles discouraging Filipinos in using English as a communication both institutional and in everyday conversations. And to promote the use of local/national languages.

Threads like these are better off promoting the use of English in both speaking and writing especially to a bilingual nation such as The Philippines.

As much as we encourage Filipinos to use their own language, they should not turn their back on English since this is the language that will enable for them to communicate with the rest of the world.

What I don't like about is thread are negative posts and articles discouraging Filipinos in using English as a communication both institutional and in everyday conversations. And to promote the use of local/national languages.

Threads like these are better off promoting the use of English in both speaking and writing especially to a bilingual nation such as The Philippines.

As much as we encourage Filipinos to use their own language, they should not turn their back on English since this is the language that will enable for them to communicate with the rest of the world.

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes.

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

First. Even if their teachers were to speak in the American accent, students would still have the tendency to syllabicate. It's the interference of L1 to begin with. Our mother tongue, Filipino, or any other Regional language, is syllabic.

Second. What is wrong with speaking English with Filipino accents? The moment the Americans and the British taught their language to the world, they lost their exclusive ownership over the language. That means that people who start using the language, notwithstanding their non-American or non-British lineage, are as much owners of the language as the Americans and the British are. And that means that how we speak the language should be considered, and is in fact considered as equal to that of the American and British accents. Besides, what we recognize as American and British accents are but one of the many regional accents they have back in America and Britain. This is the principle of World englishes.

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

Agree^^ there is the British accent, American, and Canadian accent. Asian accent including Pinoy's. What matter most is correct grammar and pronunciation.

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

Agree^^ there is the British accent, American, and Canadian accent. Asian accent including Pinoy's. What matter most is correct grammar and pronunciation.

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

+1

Yes, I don't find anything wrong with Filipinos speaking English with their own accents as long as they speak it clearly and correctly grammar wise.

+1

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

What would be the "National" language then if there is another alternative aside from tagalog?

Not national language "official" language for business and commerce is more appropriate.

What would be the "National" language then if there is another alternative aside from tagalog?

It's easier for Pinoys to say the numbers in English...if you ask a Pinoy whether rich or poor of his/her number, automatically, the answer is in English. I have yet to hear someone who says the cell phone number in Tagalog or in Spanish.





English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

It's easier for Pinoys to say the numbers in English...if you ask a Pinoy whether rich or poor of his/her number, automatically, the answer is in English. I have yet to hear someone who says the cell phone number in Tagalog or in Spanish.





English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

Yep, I know these and it should remain that way...

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

There is a fine line when it comes to relagating a language as a national language versus official language.

We can't say it is national because english isn't innate to filipino culture and heritage. It is any of the filipino languages. It is just a matter of electing or chosing which one of the languages in the Philippines which is probably hard to do because it will just cause resentments just as what it happening now. To resolve that issue and to not accuse filipinos as not being nationalistic when they had to learn tagalog based filipino language, it should be changed to Official language, or redefine/ change what is called filipino language to blend other reginal languages so there would be an equal treatment. Changing the national language to anything other than non filipino languages would be a way to kill the language and perhaps the cultural heritage as well. English maybe an international language for commerce together with French, Chinese and Spanish because of economic and social influences attached to it somehow in the end, someone in the later generations would look back, just as how Hawaiian natives are looking back and has been trying to restore their native heritage and languages because it is dying already. Besides, if filipinos speaks english, I don't think the teasing and bashing would stop because each regions would develop it's own regional accents and it would be a subject of discussion in the future as well, just as how Americans Northerners tease and critisize the southerners about their souther twang and their crooked english.

English is an official language in the Philippines and recognized in the Constitution.

Yep, I know these and it should remain that way...

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

There is a fine line when it comes to relagating a language as a national language versus official language.

We can't say it is national because english isn't innate to filipino culture and heritage. It is any of the filipino languages. It is just a matter of electing or chosing which one of the languages in the Philippines which is probably hard to do because it will just cause resentments just as what it happening now. To resolve that issue and to not accuse filipinos as not being nationalistic when they had to learn tagalog based filipino language, it should be changed to Official language, or redefine/ change what is called filipino language to blend other reginal languages so there would be an equal treatment. Changing the national language to anything other than non filipino languages would be a way to kill the language and perhaps the cultural heritage as well. English maybe an international language for commerce together with French, Chinese and Spanish because of economic and social influences attached to it somehow in the end, someone in the later generations would look back, just as how Hawaiian natives are looking back and has been trying to restore their native heritage and languages because it is dying already. Besides, if filipinos speaks english, I don't think the teasing and bashing would stop because each regions would develop it's own regional accents and it would be a subject of discussion in the future as well, just as how Americans Northerners tease and critisize the southerners about their souther twang and their crooked english.

Yep, I know these and it should remain that way...



There is a fine line when it comes to relagating a language as a national language versus official language.

We can't say it is national because english isn't innate to filipino culture and heritage. It is any of the filipino languages. It is just a matter of electing or chosing which one of the languages in the Philippines which is probably hard to do because it will just cause resentments just as what it happening now. To resolve that issue and to not accuse filipinos as not being nationalistic when they had to learn tagalog based filipino language, it should be changed to Official language, or redefine/ change what is called filipino language to blend other reginal languages so there would be an equal treatment. Changing the national language to anything other than non filipino languages would be a way to kill the language and perhaps the cultural heritage as well. English maybe an international language for commerce together with French, Chinese and Spanish because of economic and social influences attached to it somehow in the end, someone in the later generations would look back, just as how Hawaiian natives are looking back and has been trying to restore their native heritage and languages because it is dying already. Besides, if filipinos speaks english, I don't think the teasing and bashing would stop because each regions would develop it's own regional accents and it would be a subject of discussion in the future as well, just as how Americans Northerners tease and critisize the southerners about their souther twang and their crooked english.

I agree... However if you look back, English has evolved from Frisien, a language spoken from Northern Holland. Mixture of modified Germanic phrases and words and even French, Itallian and Spanish. Then came the British accent and other accents from diffirent English speaking countries. Bashing and teasing will always be part of it anyways(accents)...no matter how we look at it. Perhaps we can live with it.

Maybe, we can start creating an "official" language as "Filipino Language" if we could come up with something acceptable to every Pinoy from diffirent dialects, just like how "English" evolved.

Yep, I know these and it should remain that way...



There is a fine line when it comes to relagating a language as a national language versus official language.

We can't say it is national because english isn't innate to filipino culture and heritage. It is any of the filipino languages. It is just a matter of electing or chosing which one of the languages in the Philippines which is probably hard to do because it will just cause resentments just as what it happening now. To resolve that issue and to not accuse filipinos as not being nationalistic when they had to learn tagalog based filipino language, it should be changed to Official language, or redefine/ change what is called filipino language to blend other reginal languages so there would be an equal treatment. Changing the national language to anything other than non filipino languages would be a way to kill the language and perhaps the cultural heritage as well. English maybe an international language for commerce together with French, Chinese and Spanish because of economic and social influences attached to it somehow in the end, someone in the later generations would look back, just as how Hawaiian natives are looking back and has been trying to restore their native heritage and languages because it is dying already. Besides, if filipinos speaks english, I don't think the teasing and bashing would stop because each regions would develop it's own regional accents and it would be a subject of discussion in the future as well, just as how Americans Northerners tease and critisize the southerners about their souther twang and their crooked english.

I agree... However if you look back, English has evolved from Frisien, a language spoken from Northern Holland. Mixture of modified Germanic phrases and words and even French, Itallian and Spanish. Then came the British accent and other accents from diffirent English speaking countries. Bashing and teasing will always be part of it anyways(accents)...no matter how we look at it. Perhaps we can live with it.

Maybe, we can start creating an "official" language as "Filipino Language" if we could come up with something acceptable to every Pinoy from diffirent dialects, just like how "English" evolved.

Agree^^ there is the British accent, American, and Canadian accent. Asian accent including Pinoy's. What matter most is correct grammar and pronunciation.

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

Agree^^ there is the British accent, American, and Canadian accent. Asian accent including Pinoy's. What matter most is correct grammar and pronunciation.

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

Right...TY

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

Right...TY

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

Correct grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary, and of course, putting the right words at the right time to avoid miscommunication.

you forgot to include a good vocabulary :cheers:

Correct grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary, and of course, putting the right words at the right time to avoid miscommunication.

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.To be sure, the path to “National Language” is always riddled with thorns cast about by the “nationalists”.
Nevertheless, I think there is a way…

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:

To placate the demand by "nationalists" that the base language has to be home grown + to bridge the gap between the 1898 Malolos Constitution + an active existing idioma en las filipinas in the 21st century + a “neutral” idioma not identified with any of the Big 8 “hegemonies” = I had come to the conclusion that a likely Home Grown candidate for National Language ought to be Chavacano/ Chabacano. :) Any thoughts on the matter? :D :) But of course, since we are in the english thread, English remains an integral part of the educational system esp in math and the sciences. :D

Any chance of re-visiting the "Spirit of the Law of the Malolos Constitution?"

And if there is, would it be possible to have a referendum on "National Language" rather shoving tagalog/pilipino to Pinoy's throat. I have nothing against tagalog at all, I have to be clear on this one. But making it the National language without consensus from the people I thought is absurd.

Better yet, why not keep Spanish/English as the National Language, like French/English to Canadians and German/French/Italian to Swiss.To be sure, the path to “National Language” is always riddled with thorns cast about by the “nationalists”.
Nevertheless, I think there is a way…

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:

To placate the demand by "nationalists" that the base language has to be home grown + to bridge the gap between the 1898 Malolos Constitution + an active existing idioma en las filipinas in the 21st century + a “neutral” idioma not identified with any of the Big 8 “hegemonies” = I had come to the conclusion that a likely Home Grown candidate for National Language ought to be Chavacano/ Chabacano. :) Any thoughts on the matter? :D :) But of course, since we are in the english thread, English remains an integral part of the educational system esp in math and the sciences. :D

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:Some people (myself included) think that it should be tied with the "Big 8 Phil. languages," but equally using all of the Big 8, and not primarily linked with a certain language spoken mainly in Luzon. (A big thank you for your linguistic expertise in referring to them as languages as opposed to the incorrectly used dialects. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:Some people (myself included) think that it should be tied with the "Big 8 Phil. languages," but equally using all of the Big 8, and not primarily linked with a certain language spoken mainly in Luzon. (A big thank you for your linguistic expertise in referring to them as languages as opposed to the incorrectly used dialects. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.flyertalk.com/get/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)

English blamed for poor literacy :bash:
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 10:01:00 09/24/2010

MANILA, Philippines—The use of English as a medium of instruction even for starter learners may be the reason why some nine million Filipinos aged 10 to 64 find it difficult to read, write, compute and comprehend, according to an education official.

The use of a secondary language in classroom instruction inhibits learning among young students, eventually leading to poor literacy skills when they become adults, said Education Undersecretary Yolanda Quijano.

“Maybe it’s because our children are taught in English. They are trained to listen but because they don’t have the facility of the language they cannot answer back what they think and what they’re feeling,” said Quijano, a 43-year veteran educator.

The 2008 Functional Literacy and Mass Media Survey (FLEMMS) of the National Statistics Office, released this month, found that one out of every 10 Filipinos is functionally illiterate, meaning they have difficulty with basic life skills like reading, writing, calculating and understanding.

The FLEMMS survey, the fourth nationwide literacy study since 1989, found that nine million, or some 13.4 percent of 67 million Filipinos, fell below the literacy gauge pegged on these practical skills.

Graduates of high school and tertiary levels were considered functionally literate by the survey.

The survey placed the national functional literacy rate at 86.4 percent, higher than the 2003 figure of 84.1 percent.

Metro Manila registered the highest regionally with a 94 percent literacy rating while the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao rated lowest with a 71.6 percent.

The use of a foreign language at the early stage of formal schooling has been identified as among the factors why students drop out early.

A student who leaves school even at fourth grade risks reverting to illiteracy, Quijano warned.

“When a student drops out at Grade 4, it’s possible that they revert to illiteracy, especially if they have no reading materials and lack learning stimulants in the home and community environment,” she said.

The Department of Education has initiated a program using the mother tongue for instruction of entry-level students, in the wake of local and international studies that pupils taught in their first language showed better rates of learning and retention.

Deviating from the traditional use of English in Philippine schools, the program, called the “mother tongue-based multilingual education,” advocates the use of regional languages in teaching early learners to build basic learning skills before teaching them secondary languages, including English and Filipino.

“We use the mother-tongue language in the way we think, the way we feel, but beginning Grade 4, we bridge what we have learned in the mother tongue and use those skills and competencies for oral fluency in Filipino and English,” Quijano explained.

Studies have proven that the mother tongue provides a strong foundation for learning secondary languages, math and science skills, among others.

English blamed for poor literacy :bash:
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 10:01:00 09/24/2010

MANILA, Philippines—The use of English as a medium of instruction even for starter learners may be the reason why some nine million Filipinos aged 10 to 64 find it difficult to read, write, compute and comprehend, according to an education official.

The use of a secondary language in classroom instruction inhibits learning among young students, eventually leading to poor literacy skills when they become adults, said Education Undersecretary Yolanda Quijano.

“Maybe it’s because our children are taught in English. They are trained to listen but because they don’t have the facility of the language they cannot answer back what they think and what they’re feeling,” said Quijano, a 43-year veteran educator.

The 2008 Functional Literacy and Mass Media Survey (FLEMMS) of the National Statistics Office, released this month, found that one out of every 10 Filipinos is functionally illiterate, meaning they have difficulty with basic life skills like reading, writing, calculating and understanding.

The FLEMMS survey, the fourth nationwide literacy study since 1989, found that nine million, or some 13.4 percent of 67 million Filipinos, fell below the literacy gauge pegged on these practical skills.

Graduates of high school and tertiary levels were considered functionally literate by the survey.

The survey placed the national functional literacy rate at 86.4 percent, higher than the 2003 figure of 84.1 percent.

Metro Manila registered the highest regionally with a 94 percent literacy rating while the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao rated lowest with a 71.6 percent.

The use of a foreign language at the early stage of formal schooling has been identified as among the factors why students drop out early.

A student who leaves school even at fourth grade risks reverting to illiteracy, Quijano warned.

“When a student drops out at Grade 4, it’s possible that they revert to illiteracy, especially if they have no reading materials and lack learning stimulants in the home and community environment,” she said.

The Department of Education has initiated a program using the mother tongue for instruction of entry-level students, in the wake of local and international studies that pupils taught in their first language showed better rates of learning and retention.

Deviating from the traditional use of English in Philippine schools, the program, called the “mother tongue-based multilingual education,” advocates the use of regional languages in teaching early learners to build basic learning skills before teaching them secondary languages, including English and Filipino.

“We use the mother-tongue language in the way we think, the way we feel, but beginning Grade 4, we bridge what we have learned in the mother tongue and use those skills and competencies for oral fluency in Filipino and English,” Quijano explained.

Studies have proven that the mother tongue provides a strong foundation for learning secondary languages, math and science skills, among others.

To be sure, the path to “National Language” is always riddled with thorns cast about the “nationalists”.
Nevertheless, I think there is a way…

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:

:) But of course, since we are in the english thread, English remains an integral part of the educational system esp in math and the sciences. :D

Neutral not tied to the 8 languages...hardly. Chavacano/Chabacano will do:lol::lol:

To be sure, the path to “National Language” is always riddled with thorns cast about the “nationalists”.
Nevertheless, I think there is a way…

The “Nationalists” demand thus that the language must be Home Grown. The “Contras” demand thus that the language must be Neutral (that is, not tied with any of the Big 8 Phil. languages). English is considered too foreign whilst Spanish may have drifted too far away in 1898 as some claim. What to do? What to do? :lol::lol:

:) But of course, since we are in the english thread, English remains an integral part of the educational system esp in math and the sciences. :D

Neutral not tied to the 8 languages...hardly. Chavacano/Chabacano will do:lol::lol:

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

Why not make it the "National Language" rather choosing one from the many dialects in the Philippines?

Better yet...mixing every dialects together and form a unique language. After all almost every dialect in the Philippines uses a lot of Spanish and English words and phrases.:)

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.

"duna pero lawom kaayo nga binisaya"

like la mesa is talad kan-anan

cella is linkoranan or bangko

cuchillo, plato, cuchara, tenedor, vaso , tasa, platito are borrowed from spanish

although luwag or sugkay is a laddle

bandejado, caja and caldero i suspect are of spanish origin

not sure of planggana and panaksan

pure bisaya or i bet borrowed is kon (a clay pot) that goes with sug-angan

baterol isa special kettle made of clay used to make hot chocolate or sikwate. but i wonder about it's origin because there's a children song in spanish that says "bati bati chocolate"

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.

"duna pero lawom kaayo nga binisaya"

like la mesa is talad kan-anan

cella is linkoranan or bangko

cuchillo, plato, cuchara, tenedor, vaso , tasa, platito are borrowed from spanish

although luwag or sugkay is a laddle

bandejado, caja and caldero i suspect are of spanish origin

not sure of planggana and panaksan

pure bisaya or i bet borrowed is kon (a clay pot) that goes with sug-angan

baterol isa special kettle made of clay used to make hot chocolate or sikwate. but i wonder about it's origin because there's a children song in spanish that says "bati bati chocolate"

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

Yeah..I've noticed it myself..being married to Cebuana speaking lady from Southern Leyte. Like in Ilocano...I am more comfortable saying numbers in Spanish as in (uno, dos, tres....and so on) ag casar as in getting married, suelo as in floor, puerta as in door, fuerte as in strenght, and so on...why can't we start mixing words and prahases from all 8 major languages in the Philippines with Spanish and create a Filipino language.:):)

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

Yeah..I've noticed it myself..being married to Cebuana speaking lady from Southern Leyte. Like in Ilocano...I am more comfortable saying numbers in Spanish as in (uno, dos, tres....and so on) ag casar as in getting married, suelo as in floor, puerta as in door, fuerte as in strenght, and so on...why can't we start mixing words and prahases from all 8 major languages in the Philippines with Spanish and create a Filipino language.:):)

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

Even the tagalogs do that, remember how we respond when asked what time it is? Even in tagalog, they responded in spanish, "alas once na", sometimes in radio they would say it in tagalog but more often than not, it's in spanish. I would hear alot our elderlies before give command to a taxi driver, they would say "mama cilia po" or "mano po" to say turn turn left or turn right. Tagalogs picked up respecting the elderlies using "opo" for "usted" this is why alot of elderly folks in the Manila get upset when "po" and "opo" are not being used to them.

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.
yep, same in tagalog. Infact, it is only here in SSC that I heard some of the tagalogs use "pamintuan" for bathroom, I always knew it as "Baño", "casillas" or "cubeta" never the former. Same with kitchen items, like cuviertos, plato etc etc... BTW, lava cara is one thing I never knew of in tagalog word, it's always been "lava cara" or face towel. What is it anyway? Is there any term for it in tagalog?

the cebuanos are counting numbers in spanish. it just comes out naturally in our mouth without knowing we're counting numbers en espanol rather than bisaya. we tell time in spanish as well.

Even the tagalogs do that, remember how we respond when asked what time it is? Even in tagalog, they responded in spanish, "alas once na", sometimes in radio they would say it in tagalog but more often than not, it's in spanish. I would hear alot our elderlies before give command to a taxi driver, they would say "mama cilia po" or "mano po" to say turn turn left or turn right. Tagalogs picked up respecting the elderlies using "opo" for "usted" this is why alot of elderly folks in the Manila get upset when "po" and "opo" are not being used to them.

i used to give this challenge to my fellow cebuanos to 'name anything in the kitchen in cebuano' and not spanish. it's amusing how they come up with very little.
yep, same in tagalog. Infact, it is only here in SSC that I heard some of the tagalogs use "pamintuan" for bathroom, I always knew it as "Baño", "casillas" or "cubeta" never the former. Same with kitchen items, like cuviertos, plato etc etc... BTW, lava cara is one thing I never knew of in tagalog word, it's always been "lava cara" or face towel. What is it anyway? Is there any term for it in tagalog?

yep, same in tagalog. Infact, it is only here in SSC that I heard some of the tagalogs use "pamintuan" for bathroom, I always knew it as "Baño", "casillas" or "cubeta" never the former. Same with kitchen items, like cuviertos, plato etc etc... BTW, lava cara is one thing I never knew of in tagalog word, it's always been "lava cara" or face towel. What is it anyway? Is there any term for it in tagalog?

Bimpo. Although, when I was a kid, we were using lava cara or labakara.

In lieu of kasilyas, we use palikuran.

yep, same in tagalog. Infact, it is only here in SSC that I heard some of the tagalogs use "pamintuan" for bathroom, I always knew it as "Baño", "casillas" or "cubeta" never the former. Same with kitchen items, like cuviertos, plato etc etc... BTW, lava cara is one thing I never knew of in tagalog word, it's always been "lava cara" or face towel. What is it anyway? Is there any term for it in tagalog?

Bimpo. Although, when I was a kid, we were using lava cara or labakara.

In lieu of kasilyas, we use palikuran.

Bimpo. Although, when I was a kid, we were using lava cara or labakara.

In lieu of kasilyas, we use palikuran.

sa cebuano/bisaya mostly bano or casillas is something with running water pero kon ordinaryo lang na water seal toilet kalibangan ang tawag. so when people from the north will say "nalibang kami" that will surely get a laugh in cebu and other bisaya speaking region.:lol::lol::lol:

-when you conjugate libang as in nagkalibang that means one is already having a diarrhea (ewww just like nagka egit2x)

Bimpo. Although, when I was a kid, we were using lava cara or labakara.

In lieu of kasilyas, we use palikuran.

sa cebuano/bisaya mostly bano or casillas is something with running water pero kon ordinaryo lang na water seal toilet kalibangan ang tawag. so when people from the north will say "nalibang kami" that will surely get a laugh in cebu and other bisaya speaking region.:lol::lol::lol:

-when you conjugate libang as in nagkalibang that means one is already having a diarrhea (ewww just like nagka egit2x)

^^ same thing with "libog" in Bisaya :D

^^ same thing with "libog" in Bisaya :D

^^ same thing with "libog" in Bisaya :D

here's more words with different and funny connotation in bisaya

usap
pakwan
komot
langgam
lungsod
luso
puso

because of all these confusion and to avoid misinterpretation, the cebuanos in particular and the bisaya in general prefer to speak english over the less popular pilipino language.

^^ same thing with "libog" in Bisaya :D

here's more words with different and funny connotation in bisaya

usap
pakwan
komot
langgam
lungsod
luso
puso

because of all these confusion and to avoid misinterpretation, the cebuanos in particular and the bisaya in general prefer to speak english over the less popular pilipino language.