how true? we have this notion, or as the government claims it, that we are the 3rd (or whatever) largest english speaking nation/people. do you really believe it? i seem to doubt it (except for the ssc forumers, hehehe). lots of pinoys here in toronto (not all) can't seem to grasp of a good grammar.

i've met a lot of south asians (indians, sri lankans and pakistanis), singaporeans, and even caribbeans who were much better in english (never mind the accent, or whatever add-ons to the language). how good in english are we? a speaker? or a writer? or even a reader?

altho we have fine colleges and universities, i have experienced quite a number college graduates having a hard time composing simple paragraphs. do you think our quality of english speakers have gone down? or is it the result of mismanaged priorities of our department of education, culture and sports? don't you think we need to rethink and retool the way we teach english in schools?

what's your take on it?

how true? we have this notion, or as the government claims it, that we are the 3rd (or whatever) largest english speaking nation/people. do you really believe it? i seem to doubt it (except for the ssc forumers, hehehe). lots of pinoys here in toronto (not all) can't seem to grasp of a good grammar.

i've met a lot of south asians (indians, sri lankans and pakistanis), singaporeans, and even caribbeans who were much better in english (never mind the accent, or whatever add-ons to the language). how good in english are we? a speaker? or a writer? or even a reader?

altho we have fine colleges and universities, i have experienced quite a number college graduates having a hard time composing simple paragraphs. do you think our quality of english speakers have gone down? or is it the result of mismanaged priorities of our department of education, culture and sports? don't you think we need to rethink and retool the way we teach english in schools?

what's your take on it?


I've been battling with this issue in my mind for so long that it's no longer on the top of my pet peeves. As an educator, I can assure you that the Philippines no longer deserves to be accurately titled an "English-speaking nation"...Unfortunately, this is a by-product of so many Presidential adminstrations who've wanted to give in to the rants and raves of the "ultra-nationalist intellectuals" who insisted so much on implementing the vernacular as medium of instruction in RP schools.


But instead of developing toward a level of bilingual proficiency, the Philippine education system deteriorated into a morass of inconsistencies and severely under-funded holding bins of young minds. Instead of maintaining our competitive edge in English communication far beyond other Asian nations, we've allowed ourselves to slip behind those who never had the experience of American colonial tutelage. I was so disappointed to read recent stats on East Asia's top universities and find our UP, DLSU and ADMU crawling with the bottom-feeders!

Filipinos as a whole have fallen far behind in our ability to compose in English--compare the writings of even the 1960s to today's--int he 21st century, even in the more urbane Philippine publications, if grammatical errors don't run rampant and disappointingly elementary, the level of development and articulation is juvenile!

While others may be quick to shred me alive, this to me represents the "miseducation of the Filipino": a misguided thrust toward nationalism which failed to foresee the need to sustain competence in a global community. Nakakahiya!

Try another approach: re-adopt Spanish.

joking, joking. ;)

cheers.

^Actually. what I’d noticed when I went home that tagalog people was lacking english proficiency big time rather than sa mga bisaya. So, I think it’s by the region.

lots of pinoys here in toronto (not all) can't seem to grasp of a good grammar.

i've met a lot of south asians (indians, sri lankans and pakistanis), singaporeans, and even caribbeans who were much better in english (never mind the accent, or whatever add-ons to the language). how good in english are we? a speaker? or a writer? or even a reader?


much of Indians, Singaporeans, Pakistanis etc. living abroad are good in english coz most of them are professionals same thing with Filipino professionals are good in english even here or abroad but majority of our OFW's are not professionals that are less educated or graduated from low standard schools... so these are several reasons that they are not good english. But if we compare less fortunate (in terms of education) Filipino's from other less fortunate citizens of other countries, we are better than them interms of english speaking ability.

About grammar, you know, outside the Philippines GRAMMAR is not a big issue specially in the US, Filipinos are just english perfectionists thats why every single mistake of a person specially our fellow Filipinos speaking english, we give more attention on his grammar and how he pronounces the word that leads to a point that he will be laughed at.

About our being 3rd largest speaking nation...for me, we are not an English speaking Nation, english is only widespoken thats why that perception exist but another is that more than 90% of our population can understand english and probably can speak even those less fortunate or uneducated Filipinos, they can still understand and can speak even a few english words and can create a simple carabao english sentence that can be understood buy an english speaking individual...
but its true that Filipinos who speak better english had gone down but I believe that it won't go down into a very critical level coz we are closely hooked to the western world.

^Actually. what I’d noticed when I went home that tagalog people was lacking english proficiency big time rather than sa mga bisaya. So, I think it’s by the region.

so what's its relation?
Is there a difference on tagalog english and bisaya english?

^ I'm Tagalog but I noticed that, too. The Visayans appear to be more proficient in English. It may be that the quality of public education is better there.

Cebuanos prefer to speak English...

It's just weird... The Filipino lessons they're teaching here (especially in grammar) are not the practically used in Manila. Sabi nga ng dad ko, pinagtawanan daw siya ng magtagalog siya... :D

Eh yung father ko nga, he's Waray pero mas malalim pa mag-Tagalog sa 'kin. He still uses "ngunit, subalit and datapwat" instead of "pero" or "kaya lang". Funny!

"I was so disappointed to read recent stats on East Asia's top universities and find our UP, DLSU and ADMU crawling with the bottom-feeders!"

The topic for this thread is English proficiency. The criteria for the listing of Asia's top universities are: number of professors with Ph.D., number of research published and size of library. Our top universities are deficient on all of those criteria. Aside from publication which involves writing in English, the placement of our universities didn't say anything about English proficiency. We could be at the top hierarchy if it's just going to be English.

Eh yung father ko nga, he's Waray pero mas malalim pa mag-Tagalog sa 'kin. He still uses "ngunit, subalit and datapwat" instead of "pero" or "kaya lang". Funny!


Ako nga pinagtawanan din, sabi ko kasi GURO, titser pala dito sa Manila.

Napansin ko lang sa mga US-based forums wala rin namang grammar English nila. Often times mali gamit nila ng A and AN, using then instead of than.

I agree that English is widely used in the Philippines, but to say that it's an English speaking nation is more fiction than fact, trying to pump up it's image on the international stage in my opinion. "Carabao" English is rampant and the proliferation of Taglish is everywhere, in these times when our Asian neighbors are improving their English proficiency since it's the accepted global language, the Philippines is reverting back decades just for the sake of nationalism. Being bilingual is good, but stick to one language while conversing, and not see-saw between the two (one of my pet peeves!).

I feel the same way with spanglish.

I agree that English is widely used in the Philippines, but to say that it's an English speaking nation is more fiction than fact, trying to pump up it's image on the international stage in my opinion. "Carabao" English is rampant and the proliferation of Taglish is everywhere, in these times when our Asian neighbors are improving their English proficiency since it's an accepted global language, the Philippines is reverting back decades just for the sake of nationalism. Being bilingual is good, but stick to one language while conversing, and not see-saw between the two (one of my pet peeves!).

tumpak! and about the grammar, during my college days, I am the one who wrote the introduction of our thesis and my biggest problem is that I have a very poor grammar, one time when I was in an internet cafe I doubted about my grammar so I asked an american through YM but everytime I ask him he always say, "yep you are correct" eventhough I created a sentence that I know that it has a wrong grammar but still he says It's correct.. so this means we Filipinos are too perfect when it comes to english grammar... infact I have read an article naming the Filipinos as the 2nd "best" (not largest) english speakers in the world because of our being english perfectionists and I think our being perfectionist is not that positive to hear IMO.

About the tagalog and visayan english...
I think it has nothing to do with the quality of education but it is because English is the armour or counterpart of the Visayans whenever a tagalog would talk to him/her...coz we Visayans always say that english is easier than tagalog...and also of the accent, visayan accent IMo is quite the same with the accent used in english...tagalog accent is too soft for english use.

Filipinos are just english perfectionists thats why every single mistake of a person specially our fellow Filipinos speaking english, we give more attention on his grammar and how he pronounces the word that leads to a point that he will be laughed at.


i noticed that pnoi can actually speak good english when theyre drunk

I agree that English is widely used in the Philippines, but to say that it's an English speaking nation is more fiction than fact, trying to pump up it's image on the international stage in my opinion. "Carabao" English is rampant and the proliferation of Taglish is everywhere, in these times when our Asian neighbors are improving their English proficiency since it's an accepted global language, the Philippines is reverting back decades just for the sake of nationalism. Being bilingual is good, but stick to one language while conversing, and not see-saw between the two (one of my pet peeves!).

Oh, Kimber. I see-saw when I speak with Pinoys. It's part of the lingua franca. I don't think it affects English language proficiency. There is formal English and conversational English, as well as the lingua franca. So, please don't be peeved.

i noticed that pnoi can actually speak good english when theyre drunk

yup, I noticed that too.... my question is, WHY? :weird:

About the tagalog and visayan english...
I think it has nothing to do with the quality of education but it is because English is the armour or counterpart of the Visayans whenever a tagalog would talk to him/her...coz we Visayans always say that english is easier than tagalog...and also of the accent, visayan accent IMo is quite the same with the accent used in english...tagalog accent is too soft for english use.

I don't want to engage in a local language debate here but this was brought up before. Why are some Visayans so defensive when a Tagalog speaks with them in Tagalog/Filipino. If only we can ably speak with you in Bisaya/Cebuano we will. Sometimes, Tagalogs feel uncomfortable speaking in English to a fellow kababayan. It does not occur to them that the Visayans will rather speak with them in English. So, I wrote of this story before when I vacationed in Cebu and took a jeepney. People were unresponsive when I was asking for directions and felt awkward to ask the driver in English. Maybe it was just my luck that day.

I don't want to engage in a local language debate here but this was brought up before. Why are some Visayans so defensive when a Tagalog speaks with them in Tagalog/Filipino. If only we can ably speak with you in Bisaya/Cebuano we will. Sometimes, Tagalogs feel uncomfortable speaking in English to a fellow kababayan. It does not occur to them that the Visayans will rather speak with them in English. So, I wrote of this story before when I vacationed in Cebu and took a jeepney. People were unresponsive when I was asking for directions and felt awkward to ask the driver in English. Maybe it was just my luck that day.

it is because you just don't understand our situation when we engange in tagalog conversation... hindi naman ibig sabihin na "you should speak cebuano or english coz you are in Cebu or we don't like the language just bec we don't like it".. nop! we have the reasonable reason...maybe We can UNDERSTAND well, we can WRITE tagalog well but when it comes to face to face conversation, the 1st thing in my mind is "OMG, how will I deal with this"...
This is my own: I am hesitant to talk to tagalogs, and I will always say "tagalog lang. is really very hard to speak", forgive me Lord but its the real truth, redundant to hear but sorry coz I just dunno why! :drool:

Oh, Kimber. I see-saw when I speak with Pinoys. It's part of the lingua franca. I don't think it affects English language proficiency. There is formal English and conversational English, as well as the lingua franca. So, please don't be peeved.

Hey, to each his own. I make a conscience effort to speak and stay in one language when I talk to people, be it Pinoy or otherwise. So how can one improve their proficiency level if they keep on switching back and forth?

You can see-saw to your heart's content I'm not counting that against you. You're a hard person not to like! :colgate:

ang malambot, madaling patigasin parang semento
pero
and matigas ay mahirap nang palambotin...

the same with

mas madaling turuan ang bata coz malambot pa ang kanyang katwatwan
pero
mahirap na turuan ang matanda coz matigas na katwan...

it is because you just don't understand our situation when we engange in tagalog conversation... hindi naman ibig sabihin na "you should speak cebuano or english coz you are in Cebu or we don't like the language just bec we don't like it".. nop! we have the reasonable reason...maybe We can UNDERSTAND well, we can WRITE tagalog well but when it comes to face to face conversation, the 1st thing in my mind is "OMG, how will I deal with this"...
This is my own: I am hesitant to talk to tagalogs, and I will always say "tagalog lang. is really very hard to speak", forgive me Lord but its the real truth, redundant to hear but sorry coz I just dunno why! :drool:

I think you are not alone in that predicament when you have to talk to Tagalogs. You become self-conscious or resistant. On the other hand, Tagalogs do not know this at first. Perhaps it's the same treatment. When we go to Cebu, we have to speak the language there. If only we were taught how to speak it in school. It takes more sensitivity and understanding on each other's part. I guess it's important to have this dialogue in order to place one another in each other's shoes and understand each other.

it is because you just don't understand our situation when we engange in tagalog conversation... hindi naman ibig sabihin na "you should speak cebuano or english coz you are in Cebu or we don't like the language just bec we don't like it".. nop! we have the reasonable reason...maybe We can UNDERSTAND well, we can WRITE tagalog well but when it comes to face to face conversation, the 1st thing in my mind is "OMG, how will I deal with this"... This is my own: I am hesitant to talk to tagalogs, and I will always say "tagalog lang. is really very hard to speak", forgive me Lord but its the real truth, redundant to hear but sorry coz I just dunno why!

its not your fault, like what i posted in ealier thread that my cebuanong lolo and I had a bit of language barrier that is because hes more acknowledge in english and when we communicate, we talk in english rather than in tagalog. its easier. on the other hand, cus that are raised here,mom side, was well brought up to talk in cebuano, i felt so bad that my tita had thought them the wrong dialect. how would they understand the rest of us? tsk tsk tsk

I think Tagalog shouldn't be the only Filipino language taught in schools, it's just one of the "major" dialects of the country. Cebuano (Visayan) and Ilocano are major dialects too and should have equal representation. Maybe it's high time to change the status of English and Tagalog (Pilipino) as the only two official languages of the country and include other dialects that millions of other Filipinos use as their "first language."

^^ Agree with that. Just a clarification, they are not just dialects but full languages.

Hey, to each his own. I make a conscience effort to speak and stay in one language when I talk to people, be it Pinoy or otherwise. So how can one improve their proficiency level if they keep on switching back and forth?

You don't think it's possible? I'd like to know of studies about this. I think @janchiz was conducting a study on linguistics before. I hope she is reading this to shed light on her findings.

You can see-saw to your heart's content I'm not counting that against you. You're a hard person not to like! :colgate:

Oh, dear dear Kimber, I'm glad I haven't tested your patience yet. :)

^^ My patience is long....but once I snap....my wrath on anyone is longer! :hahano:

I'll try not to push you to your breaking point and speak straight English with you. ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

When we go to Cebu, we have to speak the language there. If only we were taught how to speak it in school. .

kung ma ka tuto kang mag salita ng Cebuano, you can easily adjust coz your accent is soft and it is not hard to shift from soft to hard but our situation is different, we can't easily adopt the way you speak tagalog interms of accent coz its harder to shift from hard to soft... that simple to understand
so no need for a special dialogue and for the tagalog people na nasaktan ko noong sa una pa with this matter and also with you Lili, sorry talaga I don't mean anything besides my reason.

^ Yeah. Ganon pala.

yeah , it's really bad when peoples don't speak correct english

^I'm agree.

remember jimmy santos with his carabao english, "i love you 3 times a day"? hilarious, but sad. :ohno:

I think her longleggedness melanie is much better,
just as good as Erap,twide as good as jimmy but much better looking

e.g.

At a talk show after her break-up with Derek Dee, Melanie was asked if she had some words for Derek’s mother (whom she partly blamed for the separation). “Oo nga,” said Melanie, “pero i-English-in ko para maintindihan niya.” She looked into the camera and, with the peremptoriness of royalty, said, “And to you, Mrs. Dee, I have two words for you. Ang labo mo!”

for more of her eraptions : http://arnoldgamboa.com/2004/08/dont-judge-my-brother-hes-not-a-book-and-other-melanie-marquez-quotable-quotes/

for other's sakes, because they're not a covers, melanie's eraptions:

Here’re some actual quotes from Melanie Marquez, the former Miss International, also a self confessed Madame Malaprop. (Note: Malapropism, meaning “a ludicrous misuse of a word”). It’ll make your day.

* * *
My brother is not a girl; he’s a gentleman.

* * *

That’s why I’m a success, it’s because I don’t middle in other people’s lives.

* * *

Don’t judge my brother; he’s not a book.

* * *

I won’t stoop down to my level.

* * *

Hello? Bulag ka ba? Bingi ka ba? Are you dep?

* * *

‘Yung STD, baka sa maruming toilet lang niya nakuha yan.

* * *

Eh, ikaw ba naman, durugin ang ari mo… Pag di ka naman manutok ng baril.

* * *

We are lovers, not fighters.

* * *

Kapatid ko pa rin siya. We are one and the same.

* * *

I don’t eat meat. I’m not a carnival.

* * *

Eto na po ang pinakamaligayang pasko at manigong taon sa inyong lahat. (During her acceptance speech at a Metro Filmfest awards night where her bioflick, directed by her late father Temyong Marquez, won an award.)

* * *

Sumasakit ang migraine ko.

* * *

Ang tatay ko ang only living legend na buhay!

* * *

Period na talaga; wala nang exclamation point. (When asked on S-Files if her present husband, Adam Lawyer, is her Mr. Right.).

* * *

(This one’s our favorite. When Joy read this, we literally laughed our lungs out for more than 1 minute with Johann looking amazed, probably wondering what’s happening to his parents)

At a talk show after her break-up with Derek Dee, Melanie was asked if she had some words for Derek’s mother (whom she partly blamed for the separation). “Oo nga,” said Melanie, “pero i-English-in ko para maintindihan niya.” She looked into the camera and, with the peremptoriness of royalty, said, “And to you, Mrs. Dee, I have two words for you. Ang labo mo!”

Ooops, don’t judge Melanie. As you know, she’s not a book. :)

^^ inaatake ako ng heart attack!

on my part, im used to halu-halo. normally, i cannot talk straight english as well as straight tagalog. minsan lang. nasanay kasi ako ng bisaya-tagalog-english labu-labo. once required, napipilitan din.

ay sleepy , mga parente ko dinhi call that bisoglish :grouphug:

i noticed that pnoi can actually speak good english when theyre drunk

maybe its because when your drunk, you dont think...so good english just naturally comes out:D

^I'm agree.

as well as mine.

@ bustero: basig parente siguro ta.

:lol: when Filipinos say "for a while..." instead of "hold on" or "wait for a moment". Ironically, i sometimes find myself saying it too.

:lol: when Filipinos say "for a while..." instead of "hold on" or "wait for a moment". Ironically, i sometimes find myself saying it too.

ako, "one moment please" and "kadjot lang"

"Hold the while please. Don't hang-up yourself."

:lol::lol:

sleepy, lili, ryan...the both of you three...“You’re nothing but a second rate, trying hard copycat!”...

well, ifs i, then ifs not? ifs you, then who's will? can you digs it?

seriously here. people here say "may i speak with..." "pinoys say may i talk to...".

sleepy, lili, ryan...the both of you three...“You’re nothing but a second rate, trying hard copycat!”...

bustero, I will be telling you this. You are getting cornics. Is I'm right Paul?

you bet you right, i can always toktogaok!

:hilarious: (I'm really in stitches.) Ok, it's up for you na. I will going to eat mami noodles na.

besure not to burp burp in front of them okish?

When I did my practicum in Manila, all my co-workers teased me for my broken Tagalog (or at least American accented Tagalog) by ispokening to me like that. Joking joking only because even if I'm worker we're friends still.

funny, but my pag-umangkins don't want to talk to my daughter dahil masyadong ispokening daw.

"I was so disappointed to read recent stats on East Asia's top universities and find our UP, DLSU and ADMU crawling with the bottom-feeders!"

The topic for this thread is English proficiency. The criteria for the listing of Asia's top universities are: number of professors with Ph.D., number of research published and size of library. Our top universities are deficient on all of those criteria. Aside from publication which involves writing in English, the placement of our universities didn't say anything about English proficiency. We could be at the top hierarchy if it's just going to be English.
this is absolutely true.
It's simple most pinoys don't really practice speaking English outside of school.If you don't use it you'll lose it. That explains wy most pinoys write in English better than they converse.

Filipinos are funny people.

^ i often hear Filipinos are friendly people

"Hold the while please. Don't hang-up yourself."

Hold your breath, just hang-up yourself :bash:

this is absolutely true.
It's simple most pinoys don't really practice speaking English outside of school.If you don't use it you'll lose it. That explains wy most pinoys write in English better than they converse.

true, true marites. my wife works in an orthotics company north of toronto. guess what, most of the work force are pinays with some ethiopians, whites and some jews as owners to boot. she gets to speak english when she speaks with the supers and owners, a few times a day. most of the time, it's either tagalog or bisaya with her pinay co-workers. she's afraid to try some other company or work environment because of what she feels as her english deficiency.

i've been telling one thing, it's a matter of practice. and some reading, that way, you will learn to use it and observe grammars.

there's one i noticed, english proficiency is a matter which industry you work. they say, pag engineer ka, engineering din ang english mo (or put it more bluntly, wag mo ng problemahin ang grammar). true?

^^like what happened to one of my e.engr friend who took an exam... ("whew! ang hirap! he said. i asked him why...lot of problem solving? he just shrugged his shoulders.. ala, puro essay lang kasi!)

somehow, media has great impact on this matter. like when i was i child, cartoons shown on tv were in English. but now, almost all r translated to Tagalog.

BEFORE:
We will shout.."Up, up andaway!"

NOW:
Kids will shout.. "Lipad, Kristala lipad!"

^ he he that's funny. I agree with that Engineering emphasize more on Math and Science. Course it helps if your teacher is proficient in ENglish too. Nowadays it's been said time and time again the quality of education is going down .

well since I'm studying in an Engineering school, I gotta say that proper english here is not really important. most of my professors and lecturers are either from PRC or Indonesia and sometimes you will find it difficult to understand what they are teaching. so that's why I skip their lectures most of the time and resort to self-studying.

It is also apparent that they would recognize you as a Filipino through our accent. For instance my lab lecturer asked me if I'm a Filipino. I said yes and asked him why. He said, "Well, because of the accent." hehe.. wala lang... :)

It is also apparent that they would recognize you as a Filipino through our accent. For instance my lab lecturer asked me if I'm a Filipino. I said yes and asked him why. He said, "Well, because of the accent." hehe.. wala lang... :)

really? we have our own accent?
hmmm?

I believe that Pinoys do have their own accent when speaking English.

I believe that Pinoys do have their own accent when speaking English.
cool, nice that we have our own...:okay:

^yap, ANG TITIGAS NGA EH PERO ATLEAST UNDERSTANDABLE KAHIT BALO-BALOKTOT LIKE MY DAD

Filipino accents usually uses B's for V's, P's for F's, D's for TH's, etc....

^ That's not an accent but mispronunciation. Accent is more tonal.

yup, pinoy accent is distinct from american or british. you would know it, kahit saan ka mapadpad, alam mong pinoy ang kausap mo.

P's for F's

i thought the other way around

we often say PILIPINS, and not FILIPINS, <--w/c shud b, ph = f
but is that politically correct because were pilipinos, not filipinos,
and we have the right to say it, because we are pilipino.

Filipinos have neutral accent, which was preferred by call center locators in the Philippines.

^^ Pinoys are just very excellent mimics, the best in the world! :colgate:

yup, pinoy accent is distinct from american or british. you would know it, kahit saan ka mapadpad, alam mong pinoy ang kausap mo.
there's a lot of AMERICAN ACCENT that are distinguishable too such as the bostonians, people from new orleans, country hicks, and the cowabonga californian dudes.

black on the other hand sounds alike, dont wanna be ignorant here, but they all try to be as ghetto as possible

^ That's not an accent but mispronunciation. Accent is more tonal.

Isn't pronunciations of certain words make up an accent?

Well, I'm not an expert on this so I won't opine. I just know that Pinoys who do not make those mispronunciations can still have the distinct Filipino accent. It's in the intonation.

ar yu tingking wat aym tinking? ip yu si sow, den it wil bi dan. gudnes naman yu ar. ay tuld yu na nat tu tabok, yu labang pa rin, now luk at. bay gali. betya bay gali waw. may lab, ayl neber payn da wards may lab. hihihihi!

Pinoys are just very excellent mimics, the best in the world!

i hope youre not reffering about us looking like a mimic in that movie with Mira Sorvino.

There is definitely a Filipino accent. It's one that I turn on and off whenever I go back to the Philippines and leave it. Just speaking with my newly emigrated cousins here, I know we have different accents.

Filipino accents usually uses B's for V's, P's for F's, D's for TH's, etc....

I thought that was bisaya.

ar yu tingking wat aym tinking? ip yu si sow, den it wil bi dan. gudnes naman yu ar. ay tuld yu na nat tu tabok, yu labang pa rin, now luk at. bay gali. betya bay gali waw. may lab, ayl neber payn da wards may lab. hihihihi!
^^
ANO, IM FREAKING LOST FOR REAL

HERE IN REQUEST OF LILYA:

the first and the last letters of the word should be correct. Otherwise, it won't work.

Originally Posted by ILOVEMTL
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the only iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. And who siad seplilng is imporantt! ?

Amzanig, huh?

^ You have to note in the above experiment that the first and the last letters of the word should be correct. Otherwise, it won't work.

I thought that was bisaya.

I thought Visayans always interchange the long and short E/I sounds and the long and short O/U sounds.

i hope youre not reffering about us looking like a mimic in that movie with Mira Sorvino.

No not the movie. But that was a very good scary movie, one scene made me jump up from the floor on to the couch screaming! But that's off topic....

^BIG GUY KIMBER, :lol:

Which reminds me-- one time, I went with my aunt to the supermarket where she was going to buy a bottle of shampoo. But they ran out of her particular brand in the shelves so she went to the manager to ask if they had any in the back.

She asked the man behind the counter, "Excuse me, do you have Pih-nis?"

I had to stifle a snicker when the man got flustered and she finally said Finesse.

^BIG GUY KIMBER, :lol:

Oh you should have seen me....it was to die (laughing) for, that's what my friends tell me and I have yet to live that down! :lol:

^^
ANO, IM FREAKING LOST FOR REAL

If you're lost @tigs, then what more us mere mortals?

Which reminds me-- one time, I went with my aunt to the supermarket where she was going to buy a bottle of shampoo. But they ran out of her particular brand in the shelves so she went to the manager to ask if they had any in the back.

She asked the man behind the counter, "Excuse me, do you have Pih-nis?"

I had to stifle a snicker when the man got flustered and she finally said Finesse.

:lol: For real? I had an officemate in the Philippines before who when angry at her BF will say "pakyu!" (oops, I didn't mean to jar your sensibilities, folks. It's still jarring as it is even if mispronounced.)

If you're lost @tigs, then what more us mere mortals?

N I TOT I WAS DA BEST OF DAT

^ R U giving up ur throne?

^Apparently, I sometimes wonder what I wrote anyway or forgot what I was trying to convey. So, it’s best to write it in a correct and right manner. :lol:

^Apparently, I sometimes wonder what I wrote anyway or forgot what I was trying to convey. So, it’s best to write it in a correct and right manner. :lol:

so not to be out of topic? hihihihi.

^Apparently, I sometimes wonder what I wrote anyway or forgot what I was trying to convey. So, it’s best to write it in a correct and right manner. :lol:

Wow, impressive! Are you drunk @Tigs? :lol:

^^ I was about to type that! :lol:

:booze:, not yet but im watching the white sox, and alone. sob sob sob. good thing i can watch n be at the forum at the same time.

^^ Who's winning?

I'm watching Sabado Gigante on Univison. What a strange show. I thought Eat Bulaga was weird but this show is making me feel drunk.

^^ Who's winning?

ofcurs SOX won game one.

Folks, I have to sign off now. I'm tired from all the walking today. Good nite and good day all. :)

^good night lili, dream a little dream of me.

sweet dreams!

Filipinos with accents here are considered FOBs lol.

Filipinos with accents here are considered FOBs lol.
thats not nice, those are mexican. u mightve mistaken it to be a filipino because we're all created guapas and guapos.

thats not nice, those are mexican. u mightve mistaken it to be a filipino because we're all created guapas and guapos.

No, like when I go to a Filipino party, the kids will be like "look at those people over there, they have really thick accents, they must be FOBs"

i hate pinoys who call other pinoys fob. it'sso ignorant

No, like when I go to a Filipino party, the kids will be like "look at those people over there, they have really thick accents, they must be FOBs"

that really a derogatory word about people that came here, it means my dad can still considered one because of his thick accent though he's been here for over 22 years. the point is you have to look at what the person does before throwing a brick to him/her. tell ur friends not to call them (pnoi)fobbish, that word generates only for the mexicans.

^^ C'mon now, I really detest that discriminatory attitude whether towards fellow Filipinos or others. There's just no place for it if you would want to be considered civilized. Everyone in America came from immigrant groups.

If someone calls me FOB, then I'd say so what? Look where I am now, and you, have you made the most of having the privilege of being American-born? :sniff:

I'm a proud FOB! "Fresh Off the Boeing" that is, and not the "boat!" :lol: Although, I think one loses one's fobbishness once they've fully assimilated into mainstream society and drop all hints of an accent.

if not of the fobs, then the next generation wouldn't have it so good.

I'm a proud FOB! "Fresh Off the Boeing" that is, and not the "boat!" :lol: Although, I think one loses one's fobbishness once they've fully assimilated into mainstream society and drop all hints of an accent.

That is only if they arrive in the US while still young, for older Pinoys with developed accents, they will not be able to readjust as easily.

Pinoys calling other Pinoys FOB, i think, have an inferiority complex. It's amazing how one group of people try to belittle another within their group just in order to feel "normal" or "mainstream." Its very shallow. Some Pinoys who are made to feel less by the majority somehow find that calling Pinoys with accents a "FOB" because it lifts them closer to the majority that belittles them. It's a defense mechanism that a minority group (and pinoys are a minority in the US) uses to make someone within their group less important so they can feel superior.

My two cents

I would also like to add that i think that accents are hot. Even pinoy ones.

But what if we use FOB as a term of endearment?

^^ hehehehe, i thought something out but its really detrimental and offensive.

Pinoys calling other Pinoys FOB, i think, have an inferiority complex. It's amazing how one group of people try to belittle another within their group just in order to feel "normal" or "mainstream." Its very shallow. Some Pinoys who are made to feel less by the majority somehow find that calling Pinoys with accents a "FOB" because it lifts them closer to the majority that belittles them. It's a defense mechanism that a minority group (and pinoys are a minority in the US) uses to make someone within their group less important so they can feel superior.

My two cents

I have read of this psychological complex and it's not just confined to the Philippine ethnic group.

But what if we use FOB as a term of endearment?
^^ hehehehe, i thought something out but its really detrimental and offensive.

Can you give me an example or context of this?

I don't know... I love my cousins and I call them FOBs playfully to their faces.

Can you give me an example or context of this?
maybe like how the black people call themselves nigguh
we on the other side can call ourselves, fobs :jk:

Oh, like "I luv my FOB." Hmmm.. it can fly. But in Flip language it will be "I lab my FOB." Puede na rin slogan.

I agree that English is widely used in the Philippines, but to say that it's an English speaking nation is more fiction than fact, trying to pump up it's image on the international stage in my opinion. "Carabao" English is rampant and the proliferation of Taglish is everywhere, in these times when our Asian neighbors are improving their English proficiency since it's the accepted global language, the Philippines is reverting back decades just for the sake of nationalism. Being bilingual is good, but stick to one language while conversing, and not see-saw between the two (one of my pet peeves!).

I agree, it's so nakakainis talaga those mga tao who speak taglish. Let's make tusok-tusok the fishball, and you make me kwento what's happening in your buhay-buhay. :lol:

Seriously though, last time I went home, I was really disappointed in our tv programs, particularly the news. They're also using taglish now. It used to be that when it was a tagalog/filipino news program, the newscasters did a really good job speaking the language. But now... :(
I think our english news programs are still ok though.

Another thing I don't like is all the tagalog dubbing they do on imported english-language programs, e.g. 24. For goodness's sake, if it's in English, don't dub it. If it's in another foreign tongue, by all means, go ahead.

Being able to speak English is very important, particularly in the international scene, and our neighbors are realizing this. We, as a nation, need to keep our edge.

@ boybaha, that's so mean, you're so mean calling them that. I mean what if it hurts them. And i thought you were the sensitive type. tsk tsk.

^^ Turn-off ka na ba kay boybaha?

thats not nice, those are mexican. u mightve mistaken it to be a filipino because we're all created guapas and guapos.


Hey, what's wrong with us Mexicans?

FOB really isn't a degoratory word here.

Well I think there's a difference between... "Look at them (in an icy pa-sosyal tone). What a bunch of fobs."

and

"Tina look at you! You're such a fob!" (in a teasing tone)

FOB really isn't a degoratory word here.

When you say "here", where do you mean? There in Minnesota?

Well I think there's a difference between... "Look at them (in an icy pa-sosyal tone). What a bunch of fobs."

and

"Tina look at you! You're such a fob!" (in a teasing tone)

I agree. It's in the context and tone of how you say/use the word FOB. Some people even go as far as claiming it with pride like; "Look at me! I'm FOBulous!"

For new 'FOB's, I think there is more sensitivity towards that term (even if said endearingly?) because it indicates separation. It's like people are putting you in your place that 'bagong salta ka lang.'

To be honest, I dislike "flip" as a term that Filipinos call themselves more than "fob." I equate "flip" with other racist words like "chink" or "gook."

F.L.I.P.

"Fine Looking Island People" OR "Funny Looking Island People"

Which one? :lol:

What does FOB stand for anyways? i havent heard that term yet. But i have heard FLIP. Some of my friends call me a flip and i dont mind it.

^^ Fresh Of the Boat.

To be honest, I dislike "flip" as a term that Filipinos call themselves more than "fob." I equate "flip" with other racist words like "chink" or "gook."

Flip is a label given by other races but for a fellow Filipino or FilAm to call another FOB is quite something else. But you and Kimber are right, it depends on the context or tone and the level of comfort and familiarity you have with the subject of that comment for as long as you are sure that they are taking it goodnaturedly and are not offended by it.

Personally, I am detached from those labels. My initial reaction will be, So what? So much for being PC.

Fresh off the Boat (or Boeing as Kimber suggested).

When I first moved to the states I called myself a FOB. I used to tell my friends that I was a fob.

That's right we can de-stigmatize the term. It's like reverse psychology. I don't mind being called Oriental. I am from the Orient.

^^ It's the other way around for me, it irks me to be labeled "Oriental." I equate that word to inanimate objects like a rug or vase. I prefer to be called Asian instead. Orient is just a directional term and not a name for a place where one comes from.

I don't mind being called Asian or Oriental or Flip or FOB. Those are just words. I prove my mettle.

I'm just trying to be more sensitive for others.

Oh I dislike "oriental." There's a history to the term "oriental" that is steeped in colonial power and colonial domination.

The word oriental me is used to describe how people appropriate Asianness in ways that are out of context. For instance, Monet's and other French impressionists visually quoting Japanese woodblock prints to paint "eastern" landscapes is orientalist. The whole "zen" interior design trend is orientalist. There's a tendency to make a fetish about the "mystery" of the "orient" that for me feels like people are objectifying those cultures.

Particularly becuase here in hippie Santa Cruz, there's something about making much of the "exotic" east, I get fed up with orientalism. I went to a party once and the host asked me where I was from. I said I was from NJ. And then I said I was from the Philippines when I was pressed more. And they said, "Wow that's so cool." As if being from a different country and having a different culture makes one cooler than others.

Why don't we call the West Occidentals?

Particularly becuase here in hippie Santa Cruz, there's something about making much of the "exotic" east, I get fed up with orientalism. I went to a party once and the host asked me where I was from. I said I was from NJ. And then I said I was from the Philippines when I was pressed more. And they said, "Wow that's so cool." As if being from a different country and having a different culture makes one cooler than others.

Oh, I see what you mean. That can really be irksome. As if you have to give them the history of your genealogy. And like you are an object of curiosity. I experience that a lot.

Well I guess we do tend to do that as well. When we say something's from Europe so it has to be better, there's an "occidentalism" taking place. But I think there's still a power relationship in orientalism that's not there in occidentalism. In orientalism, the East is turned into an object seen through a western frame of mind. Occidentalism in this context is already an imposition. It's not out of context because our frames of mind have already been westernized.

Bah... I gotta stop getting this thread off topic.

But it is really getting interesting. I guess words can really be emotionally-charged.

Maybe you can start a new thread....I find this topic of discussion interesting and enlightening. :okay:

Hey Mike! Have you read that book entitled "Yellow?" I forgot who the author is, it's about race relations here in the US and how Asian-Americans are affected/influenced by it.

I should better get a hold of that book Kimber. If you remember the author, post it here or PM me. I just remember e.e.cummings poem Ygudh.

Yeah... So this is why I have a problem with travel and tourism literature. If you pick up a magazine that talks about the friendliness of Filipinos, I get a kind of sick feeling as if Filipinos are used there as prop pieces for consumers of our culture. A lot of people may object to my characterization of how we present ourselves to the West but I can't separate the objectification and exploitation from travel guides.

Just pick up a copy of Culture Shock: Philippines or a Lonely Planet travel guide to the Philippines (Culture Shock is a popular series of travel guides) and you'll see a lot of depictions of our culture, designed to make it easier for non-Filipinos to appreciate the people. Hey it's great that we are seen as friendly people, but sometimes to me it comes out like we're just prop pieces for someone's enjoyment-- at least that's how travel literature strikes me.

But I think the unfortunate part is we need to do this. The economy needs tourists and our culture and our people need to be there in a certain way to help bring the dollars in. And I guess the English speaking nation thing is a necessary way to invite the dollars into the economy.

I Googled it....

Frank Wu's "Yellow: Race in America Beyond Black and White"

In his new book, Yellow: Race in America Beyond Black and White, Frank Wu builds on, refines, and adds extra punch to the insightful explorations of race identity, politics, representation and exclusion that are the hallmark of this lawyer, author, and early contributor to Asian-American Village.

Winning strong advance praise for its release by Basic Books, Yellow explores the position of Asian-Pacific Americans within America's traditionally polarized, Black-White conception of race. A Chinese-American professor of law at Howard University, Wu has a refreshing ability to write about topics such as civil rights and civil liberties, affirmative action and multiracial identity, in a manner that is informed by a keen understanding of history and policy while also being quite personal and emotionally honest. Asian-American readers will nod with grim recognition at his anecdotes of being "complimented for speaking English" but also learn something about a century's laws and policies of racial exclusion.

Bringing to light the stereotypes and discrimination, the interethnic conflicts and legislative challenges that have faced people of Asian ancestry in this country, Yellow is likely to provide a rich, necessary education to non-Asian American readers.

This is not to say, however, that Yellow offers APA readers mere "preaching to the converted." More than a history lesson, it provides the kind of straightforward, plain-English examination of often problematic issues right in our own backyard that long-time Villagers have come to expect from Wu: the self-imposed limitations and interethnic conflicts, the doubts within us, and even, as Wu discusses in a related op-ed this edition, our own Asian-American racism.

By staking that middleground space for APAs -- a "third element" so long missing from or silent in the nation's race dialogues -- Yellow ultimately forces American readers to reexamine everything we know or think we know about race itself.

It is perhaps this aspect that led UCLA Asian American Studies Center Director Don Nakanishi to assert that Yellow "can be rightfully compared to W.E.B. DuBois's Souls of Black Folk a century ago . . . Anyone interested in the issues of our increasing diversity--whether Asian American or not -- should want to finish it in a single sitting."

The editors second that sentiment: If you've been as stimulated, heartened, engaged, and provoked by Wu's past columns on this site as we have, you probably owe it to yourself to check out this collection.

If that's not a good enough reason, however, we were also impressed by Wu's announcement that 10% of royalties from the sale of Yellow will be donated to the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights Educational Fund and to the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium. Percentages will also be donated to various non-profit organizations that will be sponsoring Wu's appearances during his national tour, which is scheduled to extend up through mid-April.

Well that's a different topic altogether. And I am sure that will generate another lively discussion/debate on the matter.

Yeah... So this is why I have a problem with travel and tourism literature. If you pick up a magazine that talks about the friendliness of Filipinos, I get a kind of sick feeling as if Filipinos are used there as prop pieces for consumers of our culture. A lot of people may object to my characterization of how we present ourselves to the West but I can't separate the objectification and exploitation from travel guides.

Just pick up a copy of Culture Shock: Philippines or a Lonely Planet travel guide to the Philippines (Culture Shock is a popular series of travel guides) and you'll see a lot of depictions of our culture, designed to make it easier for non-Filipinos to appreciate the people. Hey it's great that we are seen as friendly people, but sometimes to me it comes out like we're just prop pieces for someone's enjoyment-- at least that's how travel literature strikes me.

But I think the unfortunate part is we need to do this. The economy needs tourists and our culture and our people need to be there in a certain way to help bring the dollars in. And I guess the English speaking nation thing is a necessary way to invite the dollars into the economy.

Hmmmm, I've never looked at it this way before. But I think you're on to something. And I must say that I've been guilty of the same sin as well, looking at other cultures and peoples as prop pieces for my enjoyment when I travel. I enjoy reading travel guides, one reason for which is probably because I get sort of a picture of what to expect, but then that inevitably leads to stereotypes.

how true? we have this notion, or as the government claims it, that we are the 3rd (or whatever) largest english speaking nation/people. do you really believe it? i seem to doubt it (except for the ssc forumers, hehehe). lots of pinoys here in toronto (not all) can't seem to grasp of a good grammar.

i've met a lot of south asians (indians, sri lankans and pakistanis), singaporeans, and even caribbeans who were much better in english (never mind the accent, or whatever add-ons to the language). how good in english are we? a speaker? or a writer? or even a reader?

altho we have fine colleges and universities, i have experienced quite a number college graduates having a hard time composing simple paragraphs. do you think our quality of english speakers have gone down? or is it the result of mismanaged priorities of our department of education, culture and sports? don't you think we need to rethink and retool the way we teach english in schools?

what's your take on it?

I have been wondering about this too.. and then.. after which nations? USA the largest, then what?? UK or Australia? Hmm... Maby the Philippines is the largest nations speaking English as a second language, how about that? Rgds/from Iceland

@ boybaha, well don't all travel books/guides/magazines portray all nations and their people that way, As playthingys. It offends me too, it's like we're not real people and when the plane touches down we're just there to smile.

But the best part is when people come to the Philippines and experience the culture from us. The travel guide is one thing, the real deal comes when the people meet the tourists.

Take heart pure souls, here is what the famed poet e.e.cummings had to utter:

since feeling is first
who pays attention
to the syntax of things
will never wholly kiss you
wholly to be a fool
while Spring is in the world
my blood approves,
and kisses are a better fate
than wisdom
lady i swear by all flowers. Don't cry
-the best gesture of my brain is less than
your eyelids' flutter which says
we are for eachother: then
laugh, leaning back in my arms
for lifes not a paragraph
and death i think is no parenthesis

@ boybaha, well don't all travel books/guides/magazines portray all nations and their people that way, As playthingys. It offends me too, it's like we're not real people and when the plane touches down we're just there to smile.



Yes, that's right... All travel guides are like this. And all of them assume two different roles-- that of the consumer and that of the object to be consumed. There's a real tangible power imbalance here because it's not always that the people who are consumed can consume back. Sometimes they have no choice in the matter.

Jamaica Kincaid wrote this wonderful pamphlet called A Small Place and talks about the two sides of tourism in Antigua. There's the side that we as tourists see, the beautifully tucked bed, the quaint little houses, the mints on the pillow. And there's the side of the people who live in those houses, the people behind those smiles, and the people who placed those mints on the pillow. Too often travel guides assume that what's there just is and doesn't critically address why there are people there who are willing to make your stay comfortable. Yes, it's great that a people are a "happy people." But I think the context of their happiness needs to be examined too.

I'm not saying we're not consumers either. Sometimes, we're fortunate enough to be in the position to consume cultures. We eat up American culture like it's going to run out tomorrow. But there's two sides to this: first, we may have no choice but to because reality has become marked strongly by the west and everything we use to judge things is framed by western expectations-- (why is made in the USA better than made in Sri Lanka?). So when we pursue the better things in life, why is it that it's a particular kind of better? And second, not everyone has the power to consume cultures. Some people are stuck in supporting roles only.

I don't know. I like to travel and pamper myself and I like to say that I get what I'm paying for... if I'm paying $100/night at a resort in a Philippine island, I better get my view and my mango juice cocktail the way I like it. So there's the practical, capitalist part. We pay for services... but that's different from literature. When you start reading about smiles and laughter, you're kind of reading brand management on a national level. Like-- are they there for your convenience only? Makes me as a Filipino feel like a car or a computer or something. Buy Apple! It's easy-to-use! Go to the Philippines, where people are happy! Never mind the fact that some of this happiness is manufactured.

I'm so off-topic.

^^ That is a difficult topic to touch upon because perhaps the subjects you are championing (the so-called 'consumed') are oblivious to your angst. They are actually happy the tourists are there and perhaps it is their nature to be cheerful That's how the Pinoy folks are -- tourists or not. We might as well capitalize on it as a selling point. Really way off-topic. This should be discussed in the Tourism thread.

there's this weird feeling about checking on your american express account and some guy in india answers your queries. india has experienced tremendous growth in the call centre industry. true, they may have accents, but a big percent of their population (india, pakistan and sri lanka) have high english proficiency. i have nothing against south asians, in fact, my co-worker, neighbours and a client are south asians.

my question is, what portion of our population speaks english well, meaning proficient enought for call centre operations, passable enough that it will allow us to talk with other nationalities without the classic, aaa, uhm, what do you call it, etc. i remember a distinguished senator and former labour secretary had this habit of having aaas when interviewed.

and not point out at our flaws, we pinoys are still commendable when it comes to job performance, etc. my wife's employer still prefers filipinas because of productivity and enthusiasm for work (kahit nagtatawanan, hagikhikan, pero yung mga kamay, sobrang bilis pa rin, hihihihi).

My cousin works part-time for a call center (don't know which one) in Makati. Apparently, they had to undergo training so that they would sound more 'american' (i.e. nasal). :lol:

^^sacre bleau uuhooo-hoooo-hoooo

My cousin works part-time for a call center (don't know which one) in Makati. Apparently, they had to undergo training so that they would sound more 'american' (i.e. nasal). :lol:

^^ This is true. My friend works for Human Resources for a call center in Metro Manila and they have classes/training seminars on how to acquire different accents when speaking English (American, British, and Australian) based on what country the call is coming from.

My cousin works part-time for a call center (don't know which one) in Makati. Apparently, they had to undergo training so that they would sound more 'american' (i.e. nasal). :lol:

yups, they should. but, what is weird is, the southasian call centres have so obvious accents they wouldnt try to hide.

EDITORIAL: Proficiency in English isn’t enough
Thursday, October 27, 2005

DELL, the world’s biggest computer maker, announced last week that is opening a call center in the Philippines. Dell is the latest in a string of global companies that have established back-office operations in the country, among which are American Express, Citibank, FedEx, HSBC, Procter & Gamble and UPS.

The number of multinationals out*sourcing their customer services to the country attests to the Filipino’s comparative advantage in English proficiency and the local culture’s affinity with all things American.

For the Filipino employed in the business process outsourcing (BPO) industry, this stream of investments has translated into more high-paying jobs. But seen from a larger perspective, the country’s competitiveness in the nascent sector remains far from secure for a number of reasons.

Surprising as this may sound, the country’s participation in this sunshine industry remains marginal, especially when viewed in terms of market share. India remains the leading host of multinational companies’ BPO operations, as it is home to 8 out of every 10 outsourced jobs. The balance is split among China, Ireland, Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand, among other developing countries that bank on cheap labor to draw in the business.

While only about 6 out of 10 Indians are literate compared to at least 9 out of 10 Filipinos, India’s 1.08 billion population means its 648 million-strong literate masses far outnumber the 81.6 million Filipinos who can read and write. All other things being equal, India can draw in more foreign clients since it can offer a bigger pool of literate workers.

Of course, other things are far from equal. For starters, India’s democracy has proved to be far less susceptible to turmoil of the kind seen in the Philippines since 1986. The Filipinos’ vaunted proficiency in English, to name a more important factor for locating in the Philippines, is also far from impeccable. This is troublesome since 9 out of 10 BPO jobs are outsourced to English-speaking nations. So, cornering this market would require substantial investments in education.

The share of the Philippines’ investment in education to economic output, however, is far from encouraging. Legislators should keep this in mind as they deliberate on next year’s national budget. That is, provided they get past the intense politicking bogging down Congress and pass the budget bill on time.

A second worrying dimension of Filipinos’ far-from-perfect proficiency in English is the huge share of the voice-related service in the Philippines’ BPO business. If the workforce’s English proficiency slips, then the Philippines may as well say goodbye to a large number of BPO companies operating in the country.

This is not to say that the Philippines should content itself with the BPO business’ voice-based function, which involves customer management services such as technical support for software and hardware products, telemarketing, and basic customer care. Voice-related services, along with transcription—another booming BPO business in the Philippines—are low-end services and, as such, enjoy the lowest profit margins.

If the Philippines were to maximize its existing advantages and ride on the BPO wave, it would have to take a cue from India and move up the industry’s value-chain. In India, moving up means going beyond the voice-related services and venturing into more complex services using specialist knowledge and expert judgment.

In practical terms, this involves shifting from data-encoding to credit evaluation and fraud-detection in the financial services sector, which accounts for half of the BPO business, more complex functions entail equity and investment analysis, financial research and modeling.

Professor Robert Reich of Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government referred to these high-end services as “symbolic-analytic services,” as opposed to the low-end “routine production services.” While the former involved problem-solving skills, the latter merely required following a pattern of repetitive tasks.

Writing in 1991 when he was still President Clinton’s labor secretary, Reich raised the prospect of investing in high-end jobs at a time when Americans were seeing the large-scale migration of routine production jobs to developing countries offering cheap labor. Symbolic-analytic services thus promised a way out of the jobs rut the US was in at the time.

This brings us to another challenge facing the Philippines. More than a decade later, the country is faced with the same scenario of jobs-flight, especially since low-wage rivals such as China integrated into the global economy.

Moving up the value-chain, however, would require heavy investments not only in education but in infrastructure—something a cash-strapped government can ill-afford. So addressing its fiscal deficit remains a top concern for the Arroyo administration.

When it has enough funds, the Philippines may eventually move into high-end BPO services. This in turn would help provide higher financial returns for both the individual worker and the government, or the so-called virtuous cycle the Arroyo administration has been promising.

any first time visitor would think pinoys do speak english coz every sign you see is in english. traffic signs, billboards, etc. all are in english. there's hardly any tagalog sign anywhere.

This is b.s.

I guess this is a by-product of the American cultural experimentation post 1898 and beyond; the over valuing of the English language in a non Anglo-saxon country.

I'm all for learning other languages (I myself speak 4); however when a language is put on a false pedestal in a country whose cultural identity is wholly foreign to the anglophone world (we weren't part of the British Empire) and was never a colony of an anglophone foreign power (or so the party line goes) I see a big problem.

It would have been great if Filipinos were fluent or at least functional in Tagalog (oops sorry Pilipino), their regional languages, Castilian and English; however we've almost completely gotten rid of Castilian, Pilipino is becoming an aweful hybrid of english and tagalog and the Filipino Gov't is being dumb in not giving the full political recognition and protection that languages such as Visaya, Ilokano, etc. deserve (dialects my ass!).

My my my we have alot of work on our hands....

^put on your helmet cariocas I see them coming.

any first time visitor would think pinoys do speak english coz every sign you see is in english. traffic signs, billboards, etc. all are in english. there's hardly any tagalog sign anywhere.

really? is it their 1st impression? T never thought.....

any first time visitor would think pinoys do speak english coz every sign you see is in english. traffic signs, billboards, etc. all are in english. there's hardly any tagalog sign anywhere.

really? is it their 1st impression? I never thought.....

any first time visitor would think pinoys do speak english coz every sign you see is in english. traffic signs, billboards, etc. all are in english. there's hardly any tagalog sign anywhere.

That is true. It does give a false impression, and yet it is also a fact that the common Pinoy can communicate in English, although be it not fully fluent and eloquent about it.

true cokelitro and kimber. from the day you were born, starts in english. as you've said, it gives a false impression that the level of english proficiency is very high. but i'd like to correct myself on this. majority, if not all of filipinos do understand english, that is where the line is drawn. communicate is another thing, that is where the verbal/oral and written proficiency suffers.

Cross-posting this with Tagalog 101 in Philippine Education thread.

English 101

FROM:

http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200510310710.htm

Relearning English in public schools

DEMAND AND SUPPLY By Boo Chanco

The Philippine Star 10/31/2005



It is no secret that we are no longer as proficient in speaking and
writing in English because over the last 20 years or so, public
education has downgraded English instruction. There was this theory
that using Pilipino as the medium of instruction would increase
comprehension among other things and deliver better educated Pinoys.

Well, that didn't happen. The crazy thing is, most of our regional
neighbors were going the other way - emphasizing English instruction
to better equip their people to compete in today's globalized world.
Even China and Vietnam, whose current regimes couldn't be faulted for
lacking a sense of nationalism, are investing on teaching their
people how to speak and write in English. They often hire Filipino
English teachers.

In China, there is a feverish effort to make even taxi drivers able
to communicate in English. I was told during my recent visit to
Shanghai, ability to communicate in English is necessary for taxi
drivers to renew their driver's license. This is probably in
preparation for the Olympics. It is also because China is now visited
by a large number of foreigners, tourists and investors, something
made obvious by the nearly hour-long wait behind long immigration
lines at the airport.

The waning of our English-speaking and writing skills couldn't have
come at the worst possible time. Thousands of our graduates remain
unemployed and many are unemployable here or abroad because of, among
others, inadequate English language skills. Thousands of good jobs
requiring ability to communicate in English are unfilled, even as our
unemployment rate remains high.

Last I heard, only three out of 10 applicants for call center and
other back office jobs are hired because of this problem. Henry
Schumacher of the European Chamber of Commerce was telling me of a
project wherein they provide English language training for some of
those rejects and manage to get a good number of them hired after.

As even our DepEd now admits, our problem is also rooted in lack of
teachers. A high percentage of current teachers have poor English
skills. That's because the younger teachers are products of the
Pilipino curriculum we have had until recently. The older Filipino
English teachers have left to work in China, Thailand, US, Vietnam.

The need to train teachers is obvious. The American Chamber of
Commerce, working together with the Makati Business Club and the
Philippine Normal University had a pilot group of teachers trained by
DynaEd, a computer based interactive language course. Now, I am told
by Bambina Buenaventura that they have gone beyond training teachers
and have actually gone into the classrooms in selected public schools.

Two of the actual classroom applications of the DynaEd system are
sponsored by Philip Morris Philippines in Batangas and by Pilipinas
Shell Foundation at the Zamora Elementary School in Pandacan, Manila.
Beneficiaries of the Philip Morris project are their scholars and
college students from Lyceum of Batangas, Lipa City Colleges &
Christian College of Tanauan.

The one from Pilipinas Shell Foundation benefits the Teachers’ SPEECH
(Specialized English Enhancement Course for High School and
Elementary Teachers) Program. The beauty of the DynaEd system is that
our public school teachers and students get trained not just in
English proficiency but also in the use of computers as a multi-media
teaching tool.

Incidentally, the DynaEd system also works in the workplace
environment. Some corporations have actually started training
programs for their employees to gain English proficiency as a tool to
improve productivity. Solid Cement Philippines and PHINMA are
examples of companies that used the DynaEd system for training their
employees.

I imagine there are other systems that can be used to quickly upgrade
the English language skills of our young people. There are those who
say that preparing students for future jobs shouldn't be the main
concern of education. But then, we don't have the luxury of educating
our people for education's sake. After going through our educational
system, they have to already possess the skills needed for them to
land jobs here or abroad.

Even those who seek employment as nurses, or even those who want to
work as sailors, need to have better English language skills than the
typical high school or college graduate now have. The time may soon
come when China, Vietnam and other Asean countries would have better
English language proficiency than us. We need to work overtime to
regain our historical head start in this area.

The problem now seems too daunting. But if individual companies or
groups adopt schools or classes the way Philip Morris and Shell did,
the combined effort would yield a better result than if we just
waited for government to get its act together in the public schools.
Special programs for the currently unemployed would also help them
improve their chances of landing a job. Language training is an area
ripe for companies to take on as part of their corporate social
responsibility projects.

Of course language skills are but one of the skills we need to invest
on. But it is a very good place to start.

ay naku

One way to approach it is to stop dubbing those English programs or cartoons to Pilipino. I learned a lot of my English from TV, movies and comics. The mass media is a very important vehicle and instrument of learning.

^^ I learned English thanks to Sesame Street! :lol:

Found this essay online....

================================================================

English in the Philippines
By Doray Espinosa (Language Institute of Japan)

It has often been said that in the Philippines, America was able to do in 50 years what Spain was never able to accomplish in 300 - make the Filipinos understand and eventually accept, with affection, their masters. Right from the start, when Spain claimed the Philippines as its colony in 1521, it was clear how the Spaniards thought of their mission. They called the natives indios or Indians, and set out to redeem their savage and ignorant souls with religion - Roman Catholicism.

More than three centuries and a bloody revolution later, the indios had wholeheartedly embraced Catholicism, but just as wholeheartedly rejected Spanish rule. By this time, only the Filipino rich and educated elite were literate in Spanish. Ironically, from this same exclusive set came the founders of a secret society that pushed for reform and independence.

In 1898, after a mock battle at Manila Bay, Spain ceded the Philippines to the United States. Although there was also a bloody but short-lived Philippine-American Revolution, it took a shorter time for the Americans to pacify and befriend the Filipinos. Unlike Spain's strategy, America's means of attack and assimilation was not religion. It was mass education.

Thus, less than half a century later, the Filipinos had adopted the American form of government, embraced the American dream, spoke the American language, and were content to be called "little brown Americans". Decades after the US granted the Philippines its independence in 1946, many Filipinos still believed in and actively campaigned for the Philippines becoming the 51st state of the United States.

The Philippine-American connection has undergone considerable changes since then. Today, English - the means the Americans used to teach us via the mass media, the arts, social, business and political interaction - continues to be a strong thread that binds the two nations. The Spanish language, meanwhile, has been relegated to a college elective and to private gatherings of wealthy clans of Spanish descent.

Why has English become so easy to learn and so easy to use in the Philippines? A major reason is that the Americans were once our colonizers and continue to influence our everyday lives in many ways. Another reason is that for most Filipinos, English is not seen as a foreign language. In a country of 80 million people who speak no less than 8 languages, English is a second language. In some areas, English is more popular than our official national language. For a select few, it is even a first language.

It is not unusual to see Filipino children responding to and speaking English words long before they learn these in school. Adults are constantly cooing to kids such baby talk as "close-open" (opening and closing of the child's hands) or "beautiful eyes" (fluttering the eyelashes in what is supposed to be a cute manner). Parents prod kids to exhibit their intelligence by correctly answering simple questions like "Where's your nose, mouth, cheek, etc.?" or "Where's the dog, cat, moon, etc.?"

Usually, by the time the child enters elementary school, he or she has built a vocabulary of English that includes body parts, names of animals and objects, action verbs, simple adjectives (dirty, good, bad), polite expressions (please, thank you, I'm sorry), nursery rhymes, and simple questions (What's your name? How old are you?)

For most middle and upper class Filipino children, English begins at home with adults who use English or through snatches of English words and phrases heard over the radio and on TV. To the Filipino child or, at least, one who has grown up in a home where English is often heard and spoken, English is not an alien tongue. Filipino children may not understand the nuances of the English language, but it's there and it's theirs to manipulate. English is familiar and, better yet, user-friendly. Anybody can use it and once you get the hang of it, there's really nothing to it.

The fact that the Philippine education system has been using English as a medium of instruction from elementary to university level for decades has also reinforced the notion that English is easy - even a child can do it - and available. It is a tool for learning and a medium of communication.

More than this, English is the language of power and progress. In the Philippines, it is highly valued not only because it is functional and practical and washes over us constantly, but more importantly, because it is an affordable item, a skill that can be used to increase one's position, respectability and marketability. In most cases, the better one's ability to understand and use English, the better one's chances of career advancement. This is true for both extremes of the socio-economic ladder. English is as important to the Harvard-educated Filipino working in Manila's cosmopolitan business district as it is to the overseas contract worker working as a domestic helper in Saudi Arabia.

In fact, now, more than ever, English is important to the Filipino masses seeking employment abroad. The Filipinos' skill and cheap labor are in demand, yes, but so is their command and comprehension of English which makes it easy for foreign employers to tell them what to do. English, after all, is a global language and, luckily - some say unluckily - Filipinos managed to unravel this code quite early and easily.

In recent years, serious questions have been asked about the appropriateness of English as a medium of communication for a people searching for a clear-cut identity. Filipinos are not Americans, our nationalists cried. Why then do we continue to dream their dreams and speak their language?

Much as our purists and nationalists wanted to erase all traces of American colonial influence, they knew that the language, rather than the dreams, was less difficult to delete. Or so, they thought. Like the US military bases in the Philippines, English had become a symbol of the subtle but strong dominance of America. It took a strong-willed Philippine Senate and the eruption of Mount Pinatubo to figuratively and literally bury the US bases in ashes. Obliterating English is another matter.

Despite presidential orders to require government offices to communicate in our national language, and requiring all schools to use it as a medium of instruction, the campaign to Filipinize our information and communication highways and networks has not met with much enthusiasm or success.

Although most Filipinos understand and are literate in the national language, it is not their mother tongue. Many of us have little use for it except when travelling to other areas in the country, watching local movies made in Manila, reading comics and tabloids published in Manila, watching local TV programs produced in Manila, and listening to the pronouncements of national officials, most of whom come from the capital region.

Filipino, our national language, is 95% Tagalog, a dialect (or language, some scholars insist) spoken by those who live in Manila and its outlying areas. The rest of the country speak their own dialects or languages and many see the "use-Filipino" campaign as nothing more than another form of domination by those who reside in the seat of economic and political power.

Meanwhile, the education system, long used to English textbooks and instruction, had to scramble for Filipino books and qualified teachers who could speak Filipino. Unfortunately, the government failed to consider the difficulties - and the huge amount of money needed - in transforming centers of learning from English to Filipino.

In a setting where education is one of the lowest budget priorities, where teachers are among the lowest paid professionals, and where the systematic translation of English to Filipino has never been given serious thought or considered important, the shift from English to Filipino ended in confusion and frustration. Perhaps, the best lesson we can learn from that experience is that language grows. Slowly. It cannot be transplanted and expected to blossom quickly by a mere presidential decree.

This is not to say that Filipinos will never be able to feel a sense of who and what they are because they do not speak the same indigenous language. They were united enough when they came out in the streets and put an end to the Marcos dictatorship. English and Filipino had very little to do with it. It had to do with knowing they nurtured a common dream in whatever language they happened to be fluent in.

While other Asian countries are riding the Third Wave, the Filipinos are paddling in opposite directions because many of them are afraid the wave will engulf them and drown their sense of nationhood. While others keep trying to find ways to increase their English proficiency in the light of international relations, global cooperation and rapid developments in computers and telecommunications, we have been engaged in finding a voice we can truly call our own.

One day, we may find that voice and speak in unison, but until then, I believe that English can do it for us, too. That is, if we stop thinking of it as a colonial instrument that broke our spirit, but as the code that helped us break through other worlds.

Language, they say, is the key to understanding others. What many Filipinos miss is that English can also be used as a key to understanding ourselves. English, after all, does not belong to America. If we accept it with grace and use it with wisdom, it can belong to the rest of the world.

One way to approach it is to stop dubbing those English programs or cartoons to Pilipino. I learned a lot of my English from TV, movies and comics. The mass media is a very important vehicle and instrument of learning.

ako napilitan dahil sa 20 volumes na encyclopedia na binili ng mahal kong ina. eeeek, kaya ayon nasira mata ko. hihihihi!

Sa amin pang-display lang yun Encyclopedia Brittanica.

seriously, it really helped me, kaso kung anong laki at bigat ng mga encyclopedia noon, nasa cd na lang ngayon. i remember, encyclopedias were a pride and joy in most filipino homes before, now, it's a computer.

RP sailors' English sounds Greek to Norwegian firm
By Vincent Cabreza Inquirer News Service Nov 04, 2005

BAGUIO CITY -- When a Norwegian shipping company complains that it can no longer understand the English spoken by Filipino recruits, the country has a big problem.

Labor Undersecretary Danilo Cruz said new job markets were not hiring Filipino workers because they failed in basic English proficiency. Their spoken English, he said, was also too throaty for the world of business.

Cruz shared this information on Thursday with a batch of students training for jobs in call centers and medical transcription firms here.

Major reforms are needed to address the inability of Filipino students to be understood overseas, according to the labor official.

"This is a long-term process for change because we can only replenish the labor force with [better skilled English speakers] after 10 years," he said.

Cruz said Malacañang was planning a summit to establish a uniform policy on the use of English in schools and in the workplace. The summit will seek to evaluate the instructional materials and the business impact of Filipino English on the world markets.
"We used to be the third largest English-speaking nation" but outsourcing industries like call centers and medical transcription operators failed to even hire the 100,000 they expected to employ from the Philippines in 2005, Cruz said.

American firms stationed in India, a former British colony with a big English-speaking work force, have been tapping Filipino workers because they expected them to have an American accent, according to the labor undersecretary.

"Indian speakers just can't remove their accent," he said.

But feedback from the job markets shows that "we are disappointing" new employers, he said.

"This is not only true of the outsourcing industries. It's the effect we have on other job markets."

Because of the complaint of the Norwegian shipping company, the government is looking into the teaching methods and curricula at more than 3,000 merchant marine schools in the country.

"Many of these schools are actually of poor quality," Cruz said. He noted that the complaints involved recent graduates.

^^ Is the English something to the effect of "Morrin!", "tenjewberrymuds"?

I don't know.

I was wondering if everyone here can pinpoint a time when they were conscious of using English. I'm thinking for many people it would be in school. But as far as conversational English goes, do many of you remember when you became conscious of speaking English, and if English ever came naturally to you?

I still am conscious.

No I mean-- was there an age when you became conscious you needed to use English for a particular situation or you wanted to speak English instead of <insert local language>.

For example, for me there was a real breakthrough moment when my parents took me to Cebu when I was 4 years old. They, perhaps using the common stereotype, told me that sometimes Cebuanos didn't like to speak Tagalog. So speak English to them... they're proud of their ability to speak English. So at the age of 4, I realized that some situations required a conscious use of English. And so from then on, I was able to turn the English-speaking switch on and off consciously.

That was also a breakthrough point for me because at that point I stopped calling my mother Mama and started calling her Mommy or Ma (like the American "Maw"). I also stopped calling my father Papa and started calling him Dad... and this was a conscious decision at that time. I remember making the decision when we were in a supermarket in Cebu, buying squid flakes.

The conscious decision was when we were being fined in school for every Tagalog word we say. We had a pass card that listed the last holder. The money went to our class sinking fund that we used for party food for our Christmas party. But outside of school and in our household, it's Tagalog. There was also pressure not to appear 'sosyal' since my cousins once branded my sisters and myself as 'kene-kene'. Whatever that means.

When I went to UP undergrad, my freshmen blockmates were all "sosci", meaning "Sosyal" -- from Bacolod, from alta sociedad, so I had to make a conscious effort to speak English to them. Nagkakabalu-baluktot pa nga English ko when I shifted from Tagalog to English since I also had classmates na "tibak" (activista) that I speak in Tagalog or lingua franca. Then it became this hybrid sort of expressing. I had a hard time in indigenous law which was taught in Pilipino since I was rummaging my brains on how to express myself in Pilipino.

Now, I'm still conscious speaking English because I want to speak without discernible accent but I have already accepted that it is alright to have a slight accent as long as what I am saying is clear and coherent.

I am actually better speaking formal English than colloquial English.

I don't think it was from a desire to be sosy that I decided to speak English in Cebu-- I was just told by my parents that some people do not respond to tagalog too easily (this was during the height of Marcos Pilipino state-sponsored nationalism) and I was four years old. But I became conscious that English was an option back then at 4 years old.

English was the primary language of instruction in my elementary school so I actually grew up not knowing proper Pilipino syntax, though tagalog was what I spoke with everywhere pretty much.

I'm very conscious of speaking English in the Philippines because there, I do not want to speak with a discernible American accent. Of course, I always fail, though my English gains a Filipino inflection after some time.

You were fined for speaking tagalog?

No, I'm not saying that you are being "sosci". In the UP milieu then, there are certain classifications on the students' social backgrounds, where they graduated in high school (if it's from an exclusive school), and also where the students have their "tambayans". I wanted to blend with all.

But you know, maybe if you had studied there, you will be regarded as "sosci" because you have an American accent.

Yes, we were fined then in elementary school because only those who frequently recited in class were able to practice English and speak English well. Everyone was encouraged to speak in English by our English teacher even among ourselves. But in the end, it did not work out since even "Aray!" or "Ano ba?!" and other expression words were being fined. It became laughable and burdensome at the same time.

my grandfather once told me that as an american growing up in the philippines, it was easy to get new pinoy friends because at that time, it seems that every kid on the streets speaks in english. communication was easy.

but now, on my community visits, many kids can't even compose a decent sentence. everyone goes to school but it really makes me think how the quality of english language education has deteriorated since my granddad's time.

mehh..I finished primary/elementary schooling in Olongapo, in a Chinese School and it was compulsory for all the students to speak in English at all times...EXCEPT for the Pilipino subject..hehehe I think a lot of private school encourage the used of English more so than Public schools.

I'm currently studying in a private school. The english I should say is moderately good because some of the students speak english perfectly (no grammatical errors or whatsoever), but others do have errors since we are not forced to speak in english. A lot of people in my class hates english particularly grammar because it's hard to understand. Generally, I think the quality of english of Filipinos degraded over the years because they don't even know the meaning of simple english words or they mistake some words for other words. I remember when I was younger, the maids could even compose a couple of sentences in english, but now, that's a different story. I guess Filipinos do need to go back in time.

There are some teachers who make it mandatory to speak English while in class. I think they should continue this because is best language,all other languages are stupid.
I did not post this. Must be an insider posting for me. trying to make a joke it's not that funny.

I grew up speaking English, so much so that I couldn't speak a word of Tagalog in Grade School. At some point, I decided to learn to speak Tagalog because my schoolmates found me "mayabang" for not speaking in the vernacular. Well into High School, my Tagalog speaking skills improved though I was still better in English and was more comfortable in speaking the latter. But after entering College, and since very few of my blockmates spoke English, my English language skills have deteriorated so badly over the course of just three or so years. Just like that. I can no longer speak straight without any grammatical errors and vocab has deminished tremendously.

^sad

There are some teachers who make it mandatory to speak English while in class. I think they should continue this because is best language,all other languages are stupid.

I like French. And Japanese. And Chinese.

^ :ohno:

hey I didn't post that up there .

hey I didn't post that up there .

I hoped the pathetic imposter would be caughted and banned here forever

As far as I can remember, I spoke English before I started formal schooling in the Philippines, and in the household we spoke English even to the maids. Then my family moved abroad (I was just six years old at the time), and this time my parents started talking to me in Tagalog but I answer back in English. Moved back to the Philippines when I was 11, going back to school was a shock since I couldn't converse in Tagalog very much, and the kids my age were shy to approach me because they knew that they'd have to speak in English. Kids can be very mean sometimes, they'll totally ignore me, or not even venture out an invitation to come and play with them since I'm "different" from them. Except for this one kid, he'd talk to me in English since he was the only one brave enough to befriend me.

I eventually learned to speak Tagalog (thanks to the TV, radio and Pinoy movies!) and made life-long friends when I got into high school. My grades were pretty high in all the classes I took, but my GPA got pulled down because of that dreaded Pilipino class (all other classes were taught in English), my grades almost always hovers above failing. Today I can still converse in Tagalog, especially with my parents and the elderly, but when I can't express myself further in Tagalog, I switch to English. I think, dream, count, tell time and days in English, my "first" language.

I grew up speaking English, so much so that I couldn't speak a word of Tagalog in Grade School. At some point, I decided to learn to speak Tagalog because my schoolmates found me "mayabang" for not speaking in the vernacular. Well into High School, my Tagalog speaking skills improved though I was still better in English and was more comfortable in speaking the latter. But after entering College, and since very few of my blockmates spoke English, my English language skills have deteriorated so badly over the course of just three or so years. Just like that. I can no longer speak straight without any grammatical errors and vocab has deminished tremendously.
That's why practice makes perfect. If you really don't use it you will lose it.

English is a part of us, our culture. Why would you kill off a part of your culture? Besides, the whole Spanish situation is even worse because we're talking almost 400 years with Spain, and you'd have to count our whole culture post-Spain because we're a very latino-like country. And still, the use of Spanish today isn't great. We're also known internationally as an English speaking country, so let's continue with our English. But at the same time, it's so important to know your own native dialect and to know the deep and true Tagalog at the same time.

Living in a country whose people are very willing to talk to you in their broken english is a nightmare to me. Now, I don't even trust my english proficiency. I was supposed to be here to help them of their english but I doubt now if I'm capable of doing that. I think I need help like them too! But the best thing however is, I learned their language, Mandarin. But the fact that I became more fluent of this language just put more confirmation on my fear that my english is really going down the sink. Help!

It so funny to recall my class in mandarin language in Taipei. My classmates in that class came from different countries, we call it UN class. And one time in the class recitation one of my male classmates recite something that my teacher didn't grasped the meaning. Then all of a sudden, everyone in the class explains to her what our classmate means. Our teacher just shake her head in disbelief, "how did you do that, why can understand what he's talking?" Well, why do you think? Because we all have broken mandarin. Remember, birds of the same feather understand each other.

Now I'm walking on my teacher's experience. Everybody here have broken english and they can understand each other, and the worst is, most of them thinks they're right because they have more often use it and they understand each other. If you change it nobody would understand you and you're the FOB. Whew! Really a nightmare!

^that's funny. Well i guess there's a new version of ENglish, broken English.

That's interesting. I guess it makes sense. I think Filipinos understand Taglish better than non-Filipinos.

English is a part of us, our culture. Why would you kill off a part of your culture? Besides, the whole Spanish situation is even worse because we're talking almost 400 years with Spain, and you'd have to count our whole culture post-Spain because we're a very latino-like country. And still, the use of Spanish today isn't great. We're also known internationally as an English speaking country, so let's continue with our English. But at the same time, it's so important to know your own native dialect and to know the deep and true Tagalog at the same time.

With the disappearance and disrespect local languages get in the Philippines (first by being denoted as mere dialects and second because they get no official recognition or support by the Filipino gov't at all), I think that English should be the last on our list of priorities.

The whole Spanish situation can't be changed but it IS a part of our history (as you've said). It is because of the fact that 400 years of our history has been seen through a castilian perspective vs. 100 or less years of Anglo-American influence that I can't understand how spanish was literally wiped off the linguistic map of the Philippines whereas English literally swallowed the entire country.

Albeit English is the int'l language of trade and commerce and the Philippines has a foothold amongst other countries in being able to promote this useful linguistic tool amongst the populace, from what we're seeing from the above posts, the quality of English education is quite frankly mediocre.

Now unless the Philippines is trying to create a sort of creole w/ the taglish mix, either we teach english well or we don't teach it at all because to be honest, the last thing the Philippines needs right now is another language popping up seeing as it can't protect and respect the languages it already has/had.

There are some teachers who make it mandatory to speak English while in class. I think they should continue this because is best language,all other languages are stupid.
I did not post this. Must be an insider posting for me. trying to make a joke it's not that funny.

ask greY, he might've done it otherwise very funny :lol:,

I don't think grey x will do that.

Living in a country whose people are very willing to talk to you in their broken english is a nightmare to me. Now, I don't even trust my english proficiency. I was supposed to be here to help them of their english but I doubt now if I'm capable of doing that. I think I need help like them too! But the best thing however is, I learned their language, Mandarin. But the fact that I became more fluent of this language just put more confirmation on my fear that my english is really going down the sink. Help!

It so funny to recall my class in mandarin language in Taipei. My classmates in that class came from different countries, we call it UN class. And one time in the class recitation one of my male classmates recite something that my teacher didn't grasped the meaning. Then all of a sudden, everyone in the class explains to her what our classmate means. Our teacher just shake her head in disbelief, "how did you do that, why can understand what he's talking?" Well, why do you think? Because we all have broken mandarin. Remember, birds of the same feather understand each other.

Now I'm walking on my teacher's experience. Everybody here have broken english and they can understand each other, and the worst is, most of them thinks they're right because they have more often use it and they understand each other. If you change it nobody would understand you and you're the FOB. Whew! Really a nightmare!

good anology

With the disappearance and disrespect local languages get in the Philippines (first by being denoted as mere dialects and second because they get no official recognition or support by the Filipino gov't at all), I think that English should be the last on our list of priorities.

The whole Spanish situation can't be changed but it IS a part of our history (as you've said). It is because of the fact that 400 years of our history has been seen through a castilian perspective vs. 100 or less years of Anglo-American influence that I can't understand how spanish was literally wiped off the linguistic map of the Philippines whereas English literally swallowed the entire country.



I think English survived because the country is still being protected and influence by the American government. During the Industrial developments the English language was much more need in order to communicate with other Asian countries and you could also add the fact that America became a certifide world power after World War II.

I read somewhere that Spanish was still popular around the 1960's. Its just sad because whenever we go around here in California other Mexican's/Latino/s would make a mistake that we and also Hispanics. One of these experiences was with my Dad (He was standing in line in Albertson's), who talked to an old guy who fought during the Vietnam War and ask why Filipinos don't speak Spanish. I think he was station in the Philippines in one time and might had a conversation with Filipinos in Spanish.

Wasn't it mandatory to take Spanish classes in college before the 1987? constitution? That really is sad and weird when the assumed correct vernacular of the Filipinos is a randown broken English (Taglish)! :bash:

:)

The 'Pinoy" Speaks


B y M A R I B E L C H A N


Years of stay in a foreign land have not taken the Pinoy out of the phenomenal band The Speaks.


"Bossing!" calls out Archie Dela Cruz, The Speaks rhythm guitarist, as he asks for some tissue. Eating a hefty serving of Gerry’s Grill kare-kare and crispy pata, all his favorite Pinoy dishes, has made him too eager to start eating.

Rafael Toledo, the groups’ lead vocals waxes nostalgic. "It’s really great to be here," he says in that distinct American twang but with the way he acts and smiles, he is undeniably one heck of a full-blooded Pinoy.

Siegfred Fuster, the band’s lead guitarist who’s Filipino-Malaysian with a cool and "exotic" air shares, "I used to go to Beda and UST before going to the States, taga-Tondo talaga ako," he utters in Filipino.

Jerry Delino, the bass guitarist sighs and says, "I miss my three-year-old kid back home," in an all-familiar tone that only a Pinoy dad could speak of. Jerry was brought to the States in his teens.

Johnny Abende, the only Filipino-American in the group who stands out as the Brad Pitt look-alike with his blond and boyish looks, is the percussionist who has a great Pinoy spunk in him.

Together, these five guys make up the Washington D.C.-based, melodic rock band called The Speaks. Their group is in the country for a homecoming tour, making the rounds of bars, TV shows, record bars, and meet and greet sessions with fans.

Currently gaining solid ground in the national airwaves with their hit single "High," which inspires and encourages all the listeners to stand proud despite all the odds, this five-man, next-level rock band is finally home to perform for the people who have been so much a part of who they are.

Truly branding out loud the Pinoy pride in their collective musical jive, The Speaks is as genuinely Pinoy as it could get.

Just how Pinoy are they? Find out for yourselves as they dish out their stories between mouthfuls of sisig and adobo.

PINOY PRIDE

Raf, the groups’ powerful lead voice, shares he once played Rizal in a school play, back when he still didn’t sport a big tattoo in his arm and when he didn’t have a double masters degree that clinched him a job as business manager in Boeing’s software arm in DC.

All the members of the group having day jobs, they consider it a great opportunity to be invited to perform here in the Philippines through the efforts of various groups clamoring to listen to the much-awarded, chart-topping and unique musical experience only they can offer.

"Being back here is just an awesome experience, we’re so glad to perform for our countrymen," Raf exclaims.

Though he, Jerry and Archie were all raised in the States, they consider themselves true-blooded Pinoys having both their parents born and raised here in the Philippines.

"Our parents cooked us Filipino foods, and all those stuff," they relate.

For their first tour outside the States, it comes as no surprise then that they chose the Philippines to make their rounds and strutt their winning stuff.

The Speaks has won numerous band competitions in their homebase in D.C. with their powerful song "Life’s a Joke," including first place in the 2004 DC 101 "Last Band Standing" competition, first place 2003 JAXX "World’s Largest Battle of the Bands" and second place DC Hard Rock Café/ SoBe "Ultimate Altitude Buzz" Battle of the Bands Finals.

They also topped numerous hit stations’ charts since their songs’ debut in the Philippines including ruling for five weeks Magic 89.9’s Final Countdown, being in the Top 20 hits of 97.1 WLS-FM and gaining constant airplay in major stations like RX 93.1, 90.7 Love Radio and Yes-FM.

They have performed head to head with popular American bands like Switchfoot, Third Eye Blind and 3 Doors Down in their DC sessions. Aside from that, they’ve also jammed with local favorites Bamboo and Parokya ni Edgar when these bands went on tour in the US.

They consider Cueshe and Hale as their favorite among the emerging local rock bands currently enjoying popular airplay here in the Philippines. One thing they share in common with Cueshe aside from their kind of music is their preference for hip and comfy shoes GBX. In Megamall last week in fact, they were able to get up close and friendly with Cueshe as they shared, jammed and chose their GBX pairs from the store. Both Cueshe and The Speaks are being geared by GBX in their concerts and their appearances.

Enjoying their fresh success here in the Philippines and the States, the band couldn’t ask for more.

"We’re just so blessed," they expressed.

Raf says what makes them stand out in the sea of many other talented bands worldwide is their passion for the music, the common bond that gives the group a solid ground on the road to rockstardom,

"We’re like brothers," he enthuses, and indeed one look at them and there’s no denying the distinctly Pinoy kind of friendship they share between their love for music and their brotherhood.

In their concert last Saturday, fans were treated to the band’s hit songs and even include their own rendition of some classic Pinoy rock songs from the likes of Juan Dela Cruz band and others.

And it never fails that every time they take a bow, be it here or abroad, they express their appreciation and gratitude with a heartfelt "Maraming salamat po" — no matter if the non-Filipino audience does not comprehend.

With a winning combination of pure adrenaline-driven rock and catchy, linger-in-your-head melodies that has gained worldwide recognition, the boys of The Speaks truly prove that no matter where they go, Pinoys will carry in their hearts their pride and of course, their innate musicality.
------------

good read here :)

By Randy David
Inquirer News Service

Editor's Note: Published on page A11 of the November 6, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

IN the small town of Betis in Pampanga, where I come from, furniture-makers invented the paradox of the "modern antique." Gifted artisans are put to work to produce flamboyant Louis XIV replicas that the new-rich buy to adorn their stuffy living rooms. Over the years, many small shops that make such furniture have migrated to Manila, where they can be closer to their bourgeois buyers. But something redemptive is happening on the cultural home front.

The scarcity of good wood has forced our craftsmen to work with a combination of metal and wood, or metal and rattan. In recent years, they have turned out winning pieces of furniture. Others are discovering the beauty of hard recycled wood, and they are creating exquisite tables, benches and chairs from old lumber that in the past would have been used for firewood. We have used such aged lumber extensively to rebuild my parents' house in Betis, which has become a little showcase of what local carpenters can do when allowed to work from their own vernacular imagination rather than from the glossy pages of "House Beautiful."

The other day, I chanced upon a unique bench in our garden. It had been cut from the belly of a discarded banca. The rotted part was taken out and replaced with rattan weaving. Artfully stained, it made for a stunning piece of sculpture and carpentry. It also echoed the culture of the fishing villages that constitute old Pampanga. I sat on it and felt at home. By such little things are we instantly reconnected to our past and to the communities from which we are sprung.

We Filipinos love to recall those years when our country was only second to Japan in economic progress. We look around us and we observe with envy how almost all our neighbors are outstripping us. This is our self-lacerating way of noting how badly we have been served by our present leaders.

Maybe, the quality of our past politicians was better. But even so, it is wrong to believe that our past development was ever anything near that of Japan's. Japan copied Western technology while consciously preserving and enriching its own indigenous culture. In contrast, what we created was a colonial economy tied to the coattails of American economic development. It had no life of its own. It gave birth to an imitative consumerist culture ahead of its ability to sustain it in any meaningful way.

I suspect that we were the envy of Asia not because we were creating a strong economy, but because, being the fair-haired boy of a dynamic America, we were exhibiting all the trappings of Western modernity to which many new nations aspired. In the post-World War II era, says anthropologist Clifford Geertz, the former colonies that won their independence were faced with a crucial problem.

"Now that there is a local state rather than a mere dream of one, the task of nationalist ideologizing radically changes. It no longer consists in stimulating popular alienation from a foreign-dominated political order, nor with orchestrating a mass celebration of that order's demise." Instead, writes Geertz, the national debate focuses on "two rather towering abstractions: 'The Indigenous Way of Life' and 'The Spirit of the Age.'

"To stress the first of these is to look to local mores, established institutions, and the unities of common experience-to 'tradition,' 'culture,' 'national character,' or even 'race'-for the roots of a new identity. To stress the second is to look to the general outlines of the history of our time, and in particular to what one takes to be the overall direction and significance of that history."

Clearly, our leaders decided early on to follow "The Spirit of the Age," no doubt mesmerized by the strength of American capitalism. We cared little for our own languages and traditions. Instead of actively cultivating the soil from which it sprang, we treated national unity as a given. We ignored the truism that institutions must grow from the instincts of a people, and took the shortcut to institution-building by copying almost everything from America. In the process, we generated two cultures-a modern one that we enshrined in our laws and formal institutions, and a syncretic one that thrives in our everyday dealings.

This dualism has been upon us ever since- producing a split-level society with weak moorings. We pride ourselves in being able to participate extensively in the global labor market because of our fluency in English, little realizing how much this same Westernization has kept us from developing a stronger and more confident society. As a result, we have little to contribute to the global symphony of cultures that is not resonant of a heritage of imitation.

Yet what seems to bother our decision-makers is that our English is getting bad and that, perhaps, it is time to call "a summit to establish a uniform policy on the use of English in schools and in the workplace." The Inquirer carried this report the other day (PDI, 11/4/05): "Labor Undersecretary Danilo Cruz said new job markets were not hiring Filipino workers because they failed in basic English proficiency.... Major reforms are needed to address the inability of Filipino students to be understood overseas, according to the labor official."

The problem, as I see it, is not that the teaching of English has deteriorated. It is, rather, that we are now sending more people abroad who in the course of their lives at home never needed to learn English to become productive. This is not an educational problem, but an economic and political one.

http://news.inq7.net/opinion/index.php?index=2&story_id=55623&col=60

^^ I don't know. Why are we being too hard on ourselves and castigating ourselves for not being able to speak English with more fluency and proficiency? I don't see that happening in other nations. Not in Latin America nor our Asian neighbors. In fact, it has become a demerit for those who seek jobs as teachers in the US educational system because teachers with bilingual proficiency in Spanish or Chinese are given more hiring opportunities while Filipinos don't share in that privilege because it is presumed that Filipino migrant students can understand English.

Even Nora Aunor's defense in her drug case in California that she was not provided a Tagalog translator when she was read her rights during her arrest is baloney because, it will be presumed that she understands English. But it may fly since in criminal cases all presumptions are looked upon more in favor of the accused.

WITH THE move to amend the Constitution, there is a need to reexamine the question as to what should be our national language. The knee-jerk response would be, of course, “Tagalog” (now also referred to as “Filipino”). I suggest the English language.

When Filipinos from different parts of the Philippines meet, they communicate with each other in English, not in Tagalog. Most Filipinos think, read and write in English. Our classes are in English. Our major dailies are in English. Our Internet and computer languages are in English. Our signage is in English. Most of our books in the libraries are by far in English. We are the third largest English-speaking country in the world. English is the language of modernity, science, business, computers, economics, law, philosophy and theology (to a great extent), call centers, medical transcription, etc., etc. English is indeed our de facto national language, official proclamations notwithstanding.

Look at what happened when we gave precedence to Tagalog at the expense of English! We are losing our competitive advantage in English to other nations, such as China, Singapore, Thailand, and even Vietnam. Only 19 percent of our teachers now are at home with English.

Why should the Tagalog dialect have precedence over the other dialects, to the extent that it is also referred to as “Filipino”?

Part of the answer can be traced to the great Quezon-Osmeña rivalry in the 1930s. The astute Manuel Quezon, a Tagalog, outmaneuvered the principled Sergio Osmeña, a Cebuano, in so many issues and matters. Among them were the Philippine presidency and the choice of national language -- at a time when more Filipinos spoke and understood the Cebuano dialect than the Tagalog language. It is no wonder that the strongest opposition to Tagalog comes from Cebu, the political bastion of the Osmeñas.

Let the regions speak their own regional language to preserve their unique individual cultures and their regional identity.
In the present situation, it is only Tagalog that is really developing, with the other regional dialects treated as second-class languages and, therefore, not given the resources to evolve and develop.

English will make a wonderful national language. Think of it as our de jure and de facto national language. It will give equal importance to all the regional dialects. It will insure the preservation and development of regional cultures. It will unify us. And it will make the Filipino a global citizen, truly competitive in the global arena.

The arrangement will also fit handily in the federalism movement which is rapidly gaining ground.

If only our congressmen and senators understand what nationalism and internationalism -- as far as language is concerned -- really mean.

SAMUEL YAP, 118 Granada, San Antonio Heights, Sto. Tomas, Batangas

http://news.inq7.net/opinion/index.php?index=1&story_id=56573

^^ Good point! Now that I think of it, English does unify the country and brings it together much better than any Filipino dialect (language). Good read! :okay:

you have to have a unifying element that doesn't put anyone a headstart. that will be difficult. obviously, anyone of them will surely complain and we're back to zero again. yups, i rather have english as an official language or one of the official languages instead of a national language (like singapore).

What are the subtle differences between "Official Language" and "National Language?" :dunno:

singapore has 4 or 5 official languages (english, tamil, malay, mandarin) so every major ethnic grouping is represented. to us, we have a national language (filipino or as they would say tagalog) that is to the consternation of other dialects. personally, i'd like to do away with this national language thing and have official dialects or languages. but it would be expensive and other ethnic groupings would surely complain that they're no represent. hayyyy.

about the subtle difference, is there?

a little bit off topic. I was watching Wowowee earlier and it was Ilocanos vs. Bisayas and they had to answer in their dialects. So Willie, would ask in Tagalog and they answered in Bisaya and Ilocano. Ang gulo! The thing is, it seemed that they didn't understand the Tagalog questions as they were giving inane answers

^ I should see that one. That's interesting. lol.

singapore has 4 or 5 official languages (english, tamil, malay, mandarin) so every major ethnic grouping is represented. to us, we have a national language (filipino or as they would say tagalog) that is to the consternation of other dialects. personally, i'd like to do away with this national language thing and have official dialects or languages. but it would be expensive and other ethnic groupings would surely complain that they're no represent. hayyyy.

about the subtle difference, is there?

Singapore has four official languages, but their lingua franca is Malay (their national anthem is sung in Malay). English is also widely used since it's the langauge of business and technology.

Warning: Adult content!!!

Link sent by a friend with some funny billboard signs & t-shirt designs:

http://www.engrish.com/category_index.php?category=Adult%20Engrish

My goodness Andy. Now I know what kind of gifts you give out. Very naughty you/ :nono:

^^ :lol: I 'kinda' expected you'd have this reaction. ;) I'm really not that naughty :naughty: ... just thought the site was funny. :angel:

I know. You just wanted to get a reaction from me. :colgate:

I did, I did. :lol:

^ Cheap thrills. ;)

^^ Indeed. :lol:

^ Sige :lol: Thanks for the laughs.

^^ No... thank YOU. ;)

you have to have a unifying element that doesn't put anyone a headstart. that will be difficult. obviously, anyone of them will surely complain and we're back to zero again. yups, i rather have english as an official language or one of the official languages instead of a national language (like singapore).

Actually Malay ang national language ng Singapore :)

Sa napapansin ko, nawawala ang level of quality ng English sa Pinas. Yung nasa Maynila ako, may kausap akong kliente at yung English nya ay hinahaluan ng tagalog ala, taglish. In fact, maraming nagtratrabaho sa Call Centers sa Manila ang kumukuha ng special courses for them to speak perfect English. May nakita pakong programs on speaking English The American Way!

Narinig ko rin dati na ginawang Pilipino ang medium of instruction sa mga school.

Also, kung nanood ako ng mga ibang English TV shows sa Manila, dina dubbed ng tagalog eh marunong naman ng English ang mga Pinoy.

^^ THATS TRUE I REMEMBERED THE ALIAS :)

Actually Malay ang national language ng Singapore :)

Sa napapansin ko, nawawala ang level of quality ng English sa Pinas. Yung nasa Maynila ako, may kausap akong kliente at yung English nya ay hinahaluan ng tagalog ala, taglish. In fact, maraming nagtratrabaho sa Call Centers sa Manila ang kumukuha ng special courses for them to speak perfect English. May nakita pakong programs on speaking English The American Way!

Narinig ko rin dati na ginawang Pilipino ang medium of instruction sa mga school.

Also, kung nanood ako ng mga ibang English TV shows sa Manila, dina dubbed ng tagalog eh marunong naman ng English ang mga Pinoy.


grrr I hate it when they dub those english tv shows in tagalog. English na nga lang di nyo pa maintindihan :bash:

mabuhay ang tagalog at mga katutubong wika sa Pilipinas.

kung gusto nyong mag ingles o manood ng palabas sa ingles, MANGIBANG BANSA KAYO OK? Doon kayo sa Amerika, Tantanan nyo ang magandang wika at kultura ng Pilipinas.

I say REMOVE ENGLISH from the school curriculum and make it an Elective instead (optional, like Spanish, Chinese, Arabic). And Make Tagalog the Only Official Language.

Tama na ang kahibangan ng pag iingles / pagsisira ng sariling wika (Taglish) sa SARILING Bansa.

English pala is also filipino... (sabi sa constitution naten)

sad to say as much as i want na ipagmalaki ung wikang tagalog... mabantot talaga siyang pakinggan... malulutong ang syllables... matitigas na consonants...

maxado na siguro ako na-inculturate ng westerners kaya nabantutan ako....

tagalog was even used as the language of the devil sa movie na 'constantine'...

pero kahit ganun... proud ako sa lenguahe ko!

mabuhay ang tagalog at mga katutubong wika sa Pilipinas.

kung gusto nyong mag ingles o manood ng palabas sa ingles, MANGIBANG BANSA KAYO OK? Doon kayo sa Amerika, Tantanan nyo ang magandang wika at kultura ng Pilipinas.

I say REMOVE ENGLISH from the school curriculum and make it an Elective instead (optional, like Spanish, Chinese, Arabic). And Make Tagalog the Only Official Language.

Tama na ang kahibangan ng pag iingles / pagsisira ng sariling wika (Taglish) sa SARILING Bansa.

I don't think that's a great idea because english is usefull no matter how you put it. It's also equips Filipinos in traveling around the world since it's the universal language. The IT and call center business is booming here because Filipinos know how to speak at least 2 languages (English and Filipino), and that's not such a bad thing. Aside from that, tourists love it here because they can understand us and we could understand them. Learning english doesn't make a Tagalog or Filipino less important, it just enhances our skills.

I don't think that's a great idea because english is usefull no matter how you put it. It's also equips Filipinos in traveling around the world since it's the universal language. The IT and call center business is booming here because Filipinos know how to speak at least 2 languages (English and Filipino), and that's not such a bad thing. Aside from that, tourists love it here because they can understand us and we could understand them. Learning english doesn't make a Tagalog or Filipino less important, it just enhances our skills.


yea, english should be useful ABROAD... are we encouraging everyone to go abroad and let this country detoriorate and get poorer and poorer?
If im not mistaken, only A VERY SMALL PERCENT of the Phil. population actually go to live/work overseas. Less than 7 million? out of total 85 million Filipinos in Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao? (And with this English thing and Poverty in Pinas--just influences a few more to actually go?).

Filipinos and travelling abroad...hmm, with poverty i dont think close to 1 million Filipinos even travel anywhere, or has even travelled at all. It's more like Filipinos and working abroad (with tourist papers/contracts--tourists)

Who cares about the IT and Call Center Business? IT doesnt feed the Filipino population. It's just Manila and Cebu? and maybe Subic? but thats just that. 85 Million Filipinos. There are more Farmers than CSR's. Why don't they serve the farmers in the farmer's language, instead of white crackers from thousands of miles away? And then you'll say, all the money's coming from there (not at home), then why don't we strengthen the LOCAL Culture and Language? So that the farmers can outsell the English in their own Market.


Tourists love it MORE in Thailand, Indonesia, Japan WHERE Not a Single Correct English Sentence is Spoken by the public. We actually are behind most Asian and even ASEAN countries in terms of tourist arrivals? Do you know?

Leave the hospitality to the HRM people/hospitality/hotel/resto people. Joe would be more happy to learn of a STRONG Culture, rather than a CULTURE that tries to mimic English and American in every corner, another reason why more tourists would head out to Thailand, Indonesia, China, etc and skip the Phils?


They may still learn English as an elective/optional language. BUT THAT Shouldn't be the Print/Government/Media language of choice/priority in PILIPINAS.

Ang hina ng kultura natin e. Hindi lalakas yan pag may Ingles na nakapataw sa Lahat ng Mamamayan. Mahinang kultura, mahinang bentaha, sa Mismong Bansa.

then maybe we should stick to our local dialects,,,, instead of focusing on the language of imperial manila

Bagama't nauunawaan ko ang iyong pananaw, hindi ako lubusang sumasang-ayon. Hindi naman saliwa ang pag-aaral at pagsasalita ng inggles sa pagtaguyod ng sarili nating wika. Maaari naman tayong magpakahusay sa mga salitang ito (at malamang iba pa) nang hindi pinapahalagan lamang ang isa. Naniniwala akong kaya nating matuto at magpakadalubhasa sa isang salita na hindi nangangailangang ipagbawal ang paggamit o pag-aaral ng ibang salita.
yea, english should be useful ABROAD... are we encouraging everyone to go abroad and let this country detoriorate and get poorer and poorer?

Chicken or the egg? Are we getting poorer because we're leaving the country? Or is that we're leaving the country because we're poor? Encouraging people to leave? Are you kidding? If anything, Filipinos living abroad would go back home in a heartbeat if they could.

Who cares about the IT and Call Center Business? IT doesnt feed the Filipino population. It's just Manila and Cebu? and maybe Subic? but thats just that. 85 Million Filipinos. There are more Farmers than CSR's. Why don't they serve the farmers in the farmer's language, instead of white crackers from thousands of miles away?

While I wouldn't minimize or claim to understand the hardships that Filipino farmers go through, I would ask that you do not discount the jobs created by call centers and the effect it has on our economy. The situation is not perfect, but consider what would happen if these jobs are lost or if they were not created in the first place. More jobless Filipinos who would probably seek better opportunities abroad. Pero di bale, Manila, Cebu and maybe Subic lang naman.

Tourists love it MORE in Thailand, Indonesia, Japan WHERE Not a Single Correct English Sentence is Spoken by the public. We actually are behind most Asian and even ASEAN countries in terms of tourist arrivals? Do you know? Leave the hospitality to the HRM people/hospitality/hotel/resto people. Joe would be more happy to learn of a STRONG Culture, rather than a CULTURE that tries to mimic English and American in every corner, another reason why more tourists would head out to Thailand, Indonesia, China, etc and skip the Phils?

Language is only one factor. There's security and then there's marketing. The countries you mentioned seem to be able to market themselves a bit better.

Ang hina ng kultura natin e. Hindi lalakas yan pag may Ingles na nakapataw sa Lahat ng Mamamayan. Mahinang kultura, mahinang bentaha, sa Mismong Bansa.
Sang-ayon ako sa iyo dito. Pero gaya na nga ng nabanggit ko, hindi pagsasalita ng ibang wika ang problema natin. Matatagpuan ito sa kung ano ang pagtingin natin sa ating sarili bilang bansa at bilang bayan.

mabuhay ang tagalog at mga katutubong wika sa Pilipinas.

kung gusto nyong mag ingles o manood ng palabas sa ingles, MANGIBANG BANSA KAYO OK? Doon kayo sa Amerika, Tantanan nyo ang magandang wika at kultura ng Pilipinas.

I say REMOVE ENGLISH from the school curriculum and make it an Elective instead (optional, like Spanish, Chinese, Arabic). And Make Tagalog the Only Official Language.

Tama na ang kahibangan ng pag iingles / pagsisira ng sariling wika (Taglish) sa SARILING Bansa.

e'bat ka nag-iinglish kung tanging tagalog lang ang dapat natin adhikain :bash:

we should not stick to tagalog thats a blatant disregard to all our local dialects...

and please I don't want anyone to say that rizal said that... Kung sino man ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay mas malangsa pa sa isda,,.... Newsflash: rizal spoke and wrote in fluent spanish....

^^ true but he had too :D

OI Manileno, pagtanggal-tangal ka pa ng English na nalalaman. pano na yung mga milyon-milyong taong kinabubuhay ay magtrabaho sa fone center o sa medical transctiprionist. May maibibigay ka bang trabaho sa kanila, sabihin mo nga!!!

sa totoo nga kailangan rin nating magdagdag ng isa pang lenguahe sa mga kurikula. ito ay hapon/korean/mandarin, madaming pera ang bumubuhos sa mga bansang ito. buti na lang tinanggal ang spanish sa mga kolehiyala. totoo nga naman, common sense, hindi ito magagamit sa'tin bansa :)

edi siempre, yung mga magtatrabaho sa fone center o medical transcriptionist ay mag-aaral ng gagamitin nilang lenguaje doon. Di ko naman sinasabing tanggalin at mawala na sa mga paaaralan. Gagawin lang elective o optional.

Para yung mga magtatrabaho naman sa call center o medical transcription sa wikang Mandarin, ay Mandarin ang kukuning elective at hindi Ingles. Ang gustong mag trabaho sa Japan ay Hapon ang kukuning wika. Ang magtatrabaho sa french/spanish call center o United Nations ay spanish o french ang kukunin.

Ang magtatrabaho sa Italia bilang fashion designer e Italiano ang kukuning elective. etc etc..

Ganoon lang ka-simple. Kung magsasaka ka lang naman, mangingisda, magtatrabaho sa gobyerno, atbp. aanhin mo ang ingles na kinaaantokan mo sa pakikinig ng SONA ng pangulo?

Tagalog/katutubong wika ay sapat na. Globalization, mamili na lang sila.

Mamamayan naman sila, may basic language rights din sila. Karapatan sa sariling wika at kultura.

merely stating a point,

we should not stick to tagalog thats a blatant disregard to all our local dialects...

right. in the national level (capital) it'll be tagalog. in the regional (i'd like to say federal state) level, our own native languages.

uhmm.. ang call center ay nagiging multilingual workplace na rin.. nababasa ko sa jobstreet, may nangangailangan ng mandarin, hapones, french, spanish.


Optional na wika na required sa paaralan. Mamili sila.
Kung ang karamihan ay pipiliin ang Ingles, edi hayaan.

Ang iba kasing mamamayang filipino walang ka-amor amor dyan sa Ingles. Mas gusto nila pa yata ang Bahasa.

Bagama't nauunawaan ko ang iyong pananaw, hindi ako lubusang sumasang-ayon. Hindi naman saliwa ang pag-aaral at pagsasalita ng inggles sa pagtaguyod ng sarili nating wika. Maaari naman tayong magpakahusay sa mga salitang ito (at malamang iba pa) nang hindi pinapahalagan lamang ang isa. Naniniwala akong kaya nating matuto at magpakadalubhasa sa isang salita na hindi nangangailangang ipagbawal ang paggamit o pag-aaral ng ibang salita.





eksakto, kabayan. Ibang salita/wika. Bakit ingles lang? at bakit yun para sa lahat? Ang daming umaalis ngayon papuntang Middle East na ang iniisip ay dapat Arabo na lang ang wika nilang natutunan bago umalis ng bansa. :)

edi siempre, yung mga magtatrabaho sa fone center o medical transcriptionist ay mag-aaral ng gagamitin nilang lenguaje doon. Di ko naman sinasabing tanggalin at mawala na sa mga paaaralan. Gagawin lang elective o optional.

Para yung mga magtatrabaho naman sa call center o medical transcription sa wikang Mandarin, ay Mandarin ang kukuning elective at hindi Ingles. Ang gustong mag trabaho sa Japan ay Hapon ang kukuning wika. Ang magtatrabaho sa french/spanish call center o United Nations ay spanish o french ang kukunin.

Ang magtatrabaho sa Italia bilang fashion designer e Italiano ang kukuning elective. etc etc..

Ganoon lang ka-simple. Kung magsasaka ka lang naman, mangingisda, magtatrabaho sa gobyerno, atbp. aanhin mo ang ingles na kinaaantokan mo sa pakikinig ng SONA ng pangulo?

Tagalog/katutubong wika ay sapat na. Globalization, mamili na lang sila.

Mamamayan naman sila, may basic language rights din sila. Karapatan sa sariling wika at kultura.

totoo, pero mahirap na rin tangalin ang wikang Inglis. kinalakihan na rin natin ito. Dapat nga ay magdagdag pa. kasi ang hukbong mamayan ay ito ang kinabubuhay. masakit man isipin, Oo pangingibang bayan or work force, ang ating nasa dugo at kung saan, malaki rin ang naitutulong sa sariling bansa. huwag na nating i-bash ang paki-alamanan ang wikang inglis sapagkat ito ay nakakatulong kaysa nakakadagdag perwisyo. Totoo, sana sa pagyapak sa kolehiyala, dapat pagbingyan anyaya ang pagpipili ng mga ibat-ibang lenguahe katulad ng hapon, mandarin, korean o arabo.

magbalagtasan na lang kaya kayo....

I like the concept of being a multilingual. Its a great advantage, as well as it improves oneself in seeing other cultures. I just hope it wouldn't be another coño (shitty) trend of mixing different languages (which is annoying to hear).

:sleepy:

^^ i kinda love cono... well actually it depends on who's speaking... yah... its kinda soshal nga eh :D

specially Kris Aquino. he he

mabuhay ang tagalog at mga katutubong wika sa Pilipinas.

kung gusto nyong mag ingles o manood ng palabas sa ingles, MANGIBANG BANSA KAYO OK? Doon kayo sa Amerika, Tantanan nyo ang magandang wika at kultura ng Pilipinas.

I say REMOVE ENGLISH from the school curriculum and make it an Elective instead (optional, like Spanish, Chinese, Arabic). And Make Tagalog the Only Official Language.

Tama na ang kahibangan ng pag iingles / pagsisira ng sariling wika (Taglish) sa SARILING Bansa.

Eto lang. Mas maganda sa Pinoy na maging bilingual or much better, trilingual which is fluent sa Ingles, Pilipino at Espanol.

Syempre importante sa mga pinoy na marunong mag Pilipino whether tagalog, bisaya, cebuano, etc. Yung ang wika na Pinoy.

Importante rin na marunong rin ang Pinoy nang ingles kasi yung ang naging universal language.

Kundi sa Pinas, nong bansa ang nasasalita ng Pilipino? Kung ang Pinoy ay marunong lang mag Pilipino pero hindi marunong mag ingles, mahihirapan sya sa international scene.

Again, importante para sa Pinoy na marunong mag salita ng Pilipino at Ingles kay sa Pilipino lang!

^^ MAY TAMA KA! i dont think its right na puro lang Filipino... i think na dapat matuto din tayo mag english, it will help us to compete in the global market... kung puro lang Filipino, mas magiging poor ung bansa natin :D

sana lang yung tamang filipino at english in speaking and in writing.. wag yung mala SMS ang dating..

sana lang yung tamang filipino at english in speaking and in writing.. wag yung mala SMS ang dating..

Totoo yan! Wag lang mapadala ang mga pinoy sa sms style ng ingles lalo na sa spelling!

ung puro lang Filipino, mas magiging poor ung bansa natin

Para yung sa Hong Kong, yung mga marunong mag ingles ay umaasenso at yung hindi marunong lang mag cantonese, humihirap!

Anyway, ok nga lang yung mga ibang bansa sa tagalog ang main language pero wala!

Pwede naman maging nationalistic ang Pilipino kahit bilingual, in fact maganda yun! At sasabihin natin nationalistic ang Japan eh bakit sila nagaaral ng ingles?

sana lang yung tamang filipino at english in speaking and in writing.. wag yung mala SMS ang dating..

U mean like dis: bikus wi ar supus tu bi da inglis ispiking pipol.

:bleep:

I would like the person who made SMS "cool" be pursecuted on destroying the peoples ability to write and speak properly!

:guns1:

:jk:

Totoo yan! Wag lang mapadala ang mga pinoy sa sms style ng ingles lalo na sa spelling!



Para yung sa Hong Kong, yung mga marunong mag ingles ay umaasenso at yung hindi marunong lang mag cantonese, humihirap!

Anyway, ok nga lang yung mga ibang bansa sa tagalog ang main language pero wala!

Pwede naman maging nationalistic ang Pilipino kahit bilingual, in fact maganda yun! At sasabihin natin nationalistic ang Japan eh bakit sila nagaaral ng ingles?



Una, nag-aaral man ang Ilang mamamayan sa mga bansa sa Asya ng Ingles, NGUNIT/SUBALIT

Hindi wikang opisyal ang Ingles sa bansang Hapon, Tsina, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea, etc. (Hindi ito wika ng pamahalaan, ng media].

At pangalawa, ang Ingles ay HINDI required na subject sa mga paaralan sa mga nasabing bansa.

How about Singapore which the most developed country sa South East Asia? Para sa akin, Maganda ang Pilipinas na bilingual pa rin and have Filipino at English as the official languages at english as a language of instruction in schools.

Anyway, may mga sariling opinyon tayo. Ang importante ay kung anong programa ang magiging maganda para sa Pilipinas at ang makakabuti para sa Pilipino :)