Tourists (NOT CITY PHILES LIKE US)visit American cities that have some kind of common iconic familiarity to them:

---------------------------------------------
Most Recognizable iconic associative cities, visited---
---------------------------------------------

San Francisco is Fisherman's Wharf, Chinatown, Golden Gate,
sea lions, and cable cars.

Seattle is fog, Pike(s) Market, the Space Needle

Chicago is the Sears Tower, shopping, tall blgs.

New York is the biggest big city

LA is sunglasses, Hollywood sign, beaches(?), movie stars, sun, warm weather.

Boston is history, lobster,

New Orleans is Mardi Gras, the French Quarter

Miami is beaches, sun,

Orlando is Disney World.

Las Vegas is ????$$$

Phoenix is sun

San Diego is the San Diego zoo, sun, great climate

Philadelphia, is the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall.

Minneapolis is the Mall of America




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Second Tier iconic associative cities:
------------------------------------

San Antonio is the riverwalk, might be a first tier city

Cleveland is the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame

Memphis is Elvis, maybe tourists might know Beale Street

Atlanta is "hotlanta" fast growing, you have to go there, it's fast
growing you know?

Baltimore is Camden Yards, and maybe they know the Harbourfront

Saint Louis is the Arch

Nashville is country music


------------------------------------
Third Tier iconic associative cities:
-------------------------------------

All pro-sports town teams not listed in the previous
brackets above - Indy, etc. included


-------------------------------------
Iconic cities - Event hosting cities:
---------------------------------------

Indianapolis is the Indy 500

Austin is SouthbySouthwest???

Park City UT is Sundance Film Festival??????????

Aspen is skiing for the Hollywood "stars" in winter



AGAIN THIS IS A LIST FOR TOURISTS, NOT CITY NERDS, HOMERS
LIKE OURSELVES--->A tourist is not going to know Terminal Tower in Cleveland or Foshay Tower in Minneapolis. or even Peachtree Plaza in Hotlanta.

No breakdown, heres my list
NY - manhattan, skyscrapers, central park
CHI - Sears tower, Windy, Wrigley
L.A. - Hollywood, celebrities, Orange sun
SF - Cable cars, earthquakes, golden gate
DC - Capitol, Presidents, Government
New Orleans - Hurricanes, Mardi Gras, french quarter
Miami - Beaches, spring break
Phili - Liberty bell, US history
Atlanta - CNN, Coke, 96 games, airport
Dallas - Texas, hot humid weather, cowboys
Phoenix - Dry, Sun, Sprawl <(mabye more of a urbanist view)
Seattle - Rain, Space needle, "moderate" (as in weather)
Nashville - Music, elvis
Cleveland - Great lakes, rock hall of fame
Detroit - Ford, cars
Minneapolis - Mall of America, twins, cold
Milwaukee - Miller beer, beer, lake michigan (i try not to be bias)
St Louis - Arch, Gateway to the west
Houston - hurricane rita, pollution, hot weather
Orlando - Theme parks, tourist
Indy - Speedway, the 500
Boston - new england, distinct accents, seafood
Baltimore - DC metro, maryland
Vegas - money, gambling, sprawl
Denver- rockies, coors, mile high

I may have forgot a few cities

I agree with your list jay, and would group those cities as I had earlier.
DUH can't believe I forgot D.C. I guess I didn't think of it as a city, for
some reason. :)

The reason for my groupings, I want to change these preconcieved images
tourists have about American cities. Those iconic associations tunnel vision
tourists to only visit a select group of cities, and neglect more affordable
and convenient alternatives.


How do other cities outside those groupings become iconic with tourists? Obviously The number of highrises in an American downtown, or the number of new condos being currently built is not enough to change that perception and lure tourists.

Omaha: Zoo, College World Series, Old Market, Boys Town.

Atlanta - CNN, Coke, 96 games, airport
Dallas - Texas, hot humid weather, cowboys
Phoenix - Dry, Sun, Sprawl <(mabye more of a urbanist view)
Houston - hurricane rita, pollution, hot weather


To me, these 4 cities have no tourist identity. Not that they're not good destinations and that there's nothing to do there. They just don't have an IT that you go to these cities for. It's strange when Texas has such an abundance of state identity and pride, yet its huge cities such as Dallas and Houston have no identity of their own. I know I have a strong association between Dallas and the Cowboys, but I doubt many people go to Dallas as a tourist to see a Cowboys game.

Atlanta! no tourist identity,... i totally disagree... how many times have you been there? so much to do.. the only problem is that the metro is so large and the MARTA does not reach everything. stone mountian, peachtree tower, hard rock, clubs all over the place, tours of cnn, coke, ect. take a walk through contennial park and see where millions of viewers watched the oylmpics in 96, watch the countless # of planes take off from hartsfield, the new largest aquarium!... the list goes on...

read about atlanta...its has a strong identity..

During the American Civil War, Atlanta was burned to the ground by the advancing Union army. The city rebuilt around 140 years ago and hasn't stopped growing since. Atlanta is a business center and home to hundreds of corporate headquarters including Coke Cola, United Parcel Service and many more. It's a great hub of business activity. It is also a regional center for nightlife, entertainment and sports attractions. It has a temperate climate that makes club hopping, late night shopping and outdoor activities a pleasure all year round.

Buckhead is considered the center of Atlanta nightlife. Its history dates back to the 1800's when a tavern owner mounted a "buck's head" in his establishment near the corner of West Paces Ferry Road and Roswell Road. Whether you're seeking Latin music, a coffee house, a cigar bar, a romantic nook, a gay bar, or a disco, you will find it here. It is worth a walk through this affluent neighborhood simply to see the palatial homes, to sample the unique restaurants, and to browse in the luxury shops. You'll find currency exchanges and other services for international tourists and businesses in this area. Lennox Square Mall in Buckhead is the largest shopping mall in the southern USA. Art galleries, boutiques and small shops are plentiful, making it a perfect place to browse during the day.


In the heart of the old south
In almost every part of Atlanta, you can find interesting neighborhood nightclubs and bars featuring a wide variety of entertainments. The Grant Park area has a range of venues catering to crowds from country and western fans to rockers. Zoo Atlanta and the Atlanta Cyclorama & Civil War Museum are also located in the Grant Park area. The Cyclorama, a 42 feet-high 360-degree painting of the battle of Atlanta, has been on public display since 1898. The Museum is next to the zoo and opens daily from 9:30 AM until 4:30 PM, with admission prices of $5.00 for adults, $3.00 for children and $4.00 for seniors.

For a glimpse of the Old South, visit the Atlanta History Center at 130 West Paces Ferry Road. You'll find fascinating exhibits on everything from antebellum arts to Coke Cola, plus information about touring some of Atlanta's stately homes and gardens. The Southeastern Railway Museum in nearby Duluth, Georgia has over 80 pieces of rolling stock and is a must-visit for folks who like trains. If you're a Gone With the Wind fan, you can visit the house where author, Margaret Mitchell, lived in at 999 Peachtree Road. Tours are given continuously from 9:30 AM until 5:00 PM for an admission fee of $12. Literary tourists will also enjoy the Wren's Nest House Museum, home of J. C. Harris who authored the Uncle Remus tales
(USAtourist)

i cant see your arguement for Atlanta here, maybe you need to go to the city more, its alot better than it appears. Just because its not dense and real real urban doesn't mean its a trainwreck,... some sprawlies can be real unique. Atlanta holds the identity of the real south. its the center of the south, people who want to visit the south go to atlanta, it has a--lot of identity. plus now for pop culture its appealing to alot of the young generation with its "hip-hop" explosion. the other 3 cities i couldn't argue, but has so many "IT"s that one central core symbol/representation does not work. maybe that is what your trying to argue, but the IT is probably the center of the south. look at it that way.

^^ I'd actually agree with CorrND it that I'm not sure Atlanta has much of a tourist identity. I've never been there, and I'm sure its a nice town with lots to do, but other that the Olympics I don't identify Atlanta with much.

By contrast, I've never been to San Antonio either, but I identify that with the riverwalk and the Alamo... therefore to me San Antonio has a tourist identity. I think this thread is about perceptions, and my perception of Atlanta is very limited, and I think a lot of people around the country would think likewise.

Yeah that's why I put Atlanta as a second tier city. I don't think most people know Coke, and CNN are from Atlanta, but they might, just might know that the olympics
were there (???)

And the only "Texan" city I mentioned in the first two tiers is San Antonio. Dallas and Houston, are not tourist destinations, aside from being pro-sports team towns, or third tier tourist towns.

I think to see the real atlanta you must go there...but if your talking "whats the first thing that pops into your head when you think atlanta" it may lack in that department. like i said, atlanta is way to spread out and it feels seperate from its metro...maybe that takes away from its identity

For OKC I guess it would be the bombing memorial and museum, Bricktown, the Chihuly collection at OKC Mus of Art, Cowboy Hall of Fame... Maybe the Omniplex/Omnidome too. The gold dome in Little Saigon is pretty cool too, and it has cultural exhibits inside, but I don't know that it would be at the top of a tourist's list.

But, taking the cake as OKC's biggest tourist draw is the State Fairgrounds- OKC is the "Horse Show Capital of the World," and lots of people come to town especially for the annual Quarter Horse World. Going hand in hand with that are the Cowboy Hall of Fame and Cattlemen's Steakhouse in Stockyards City.

Atlanta! no tourist identity,... i totally disagree... how many times have you been there? so much to do.. the only problem is that the metro is so large and the MARTA does not reach everything. stone mountian, peachtree tower, hard rock, clubs all over the place, tours of cnn, coke, ect. take a walk through contennial park and see where millions of viewers watched the oylmpics in 96, watch the countless # of planes take off from hartsfield, the new largest aquarium!... the list goes on...


peachtree tower???? are you referring to the westin/peachtree plaza hotel with the restaurant on the top floor?

re: the south in general you have many cities in Alabama with so much civil rights history, Florida (although it is usually not thought of as the same compared to NC, SC, GA, AL, MS, & TN), Atlanta also has the Matin Luther King Jr. civil rights history center. the Atlanta metro is large but i don't think there is a reason to be in the suburbs.

Actually I know a fair amount about cities and I know what Atlanta has to offer. But before I was into cities I thought the city was not a place I would just take a vacation. I know better now...but as the thread said where all city philes.

When I think of iconic US cities I think of
1. New York
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. San Francisco
5. Boston or Seattle

I think Ohio cities are great but I dont think of them automatically. I have a bigger list but I'm just showing my top 5.

You need a grading scale for icons: I propose.......

5 pts. Large, unique structures that can be seen from a distance that are well known and would identifiy a place to most reasonably educated people.
-eg. Eiffel tower, Statue of Liberty, Hollywood sign, St. Louis arch.
4.pts. Smaller unique structures, visible a few blocks away, but well known enough to place the city for most people.
-e.g. Rockefeller Center skating rink, Graumann's Chinese theater, CApitol records Bldg. Lions in front of Art Institute, Wrigley field.
3 pts Iconic bldings but not universally known even though they should be.
-e.g. Robie house, Watts towers
Districts with distint architecture suggesting a specific city
-e.g. French quarter . San Francisco Victorian houses.
2. points areas suggestive of a specific geographic area but you can't be sure unless you know the place eg. Santa monica pier, Venice beach
1.point. Object suggestive of specific area Philly cheese steak, thick crust pizza, Goo-Goo bar. Billboard with Angelyne on it. etc.

How many points would your city rate?

I dont want to venture and come up with some pointsa for Indy. I dont know the city well enough. I think Soldier andSailors monument might be a 4 or 3 pointer though.

You have to say the Cheesesteak if you are doing Philly

Ill rate some things in milwaukee
4+4 pts - miller park and the calt. art museum
3 pts - mitchell park domes
2 +2 pts - river walk, pier wisconsin(soon)
1 +1 pt - miller beer, harley davidson

i think there are 9 iconic (meaning they immediately bring up a unique image in your mind) cities in the U.S., in no order:

1. NYC
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. Miami
5. New Orleans
6. Seattle
7. San Fran
8. Boston
9. Washington D.C.


I don't think there are too many other major cities that people recognize as unique. It is the challenge of Milwaukee/Minneapolis/Cincinnati/Pittsburgh/Philly/Balitmore/Denver/Omaha/Indy/St. Louis/Cleveland/Atlanta/Dallas/etc. to be number 10.

It's all about branding and making youself unique. In my opinion, a lot of those cities listed above are doing pretty much the exact same thing, and look very similar. Which of those cities will break away from that and do something different? I think and hope it can be Milwaukee.

When I think of iconic US cities I think of
1. New York
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. San Francisco
5. Boston or Seattle

I think Ohio cities are great but I dont think of them automatically. I have a bigger list but I'm just showing my top 5.

Maybe you could combine the Ohio cities Cinolumend or something...or maybe 'urban ohio'

I think to see the real atlanta you must go there...but if your talking "whats the first thing that pops into your head when you think atlanta" it may lack in that department. like i said, atlanta is way to spread out and it feels seperate from its metro...maybe that takes away from its identity

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that people shouldn't go to Atlanta (or any of the other cities) or that there's nothing to do there. I'm sure all the places you mentioned in Atlanta would be very interesting to check out, but none of them are an IT. I'm sure Coke is an interesting thing to check out, but IT it is not. 1996 Olympics? Weak draw. I mean, who goes to LA because they had the 1984 Olympics? Nobody, and that's because they've got a ton of other, more interesting things to do. LA has much more of an identity.

And just to reiterate, I'm not trying to bash any of these cities! I've honestly only been to Dallas of the 4 cities I listed and I can say there's lots of things to check out there. Besides, those 4 cities are prosperous enough on their own to not particularly need an identity to generate tourist revenue.

I live in Peachtree City outside of Atlanta... Atlanta is MAJOR boring.. BUT it tries real hard, and tries very hard to BECOME one of the major players... Omaha... just think of old gay guy that likes animals...Cleveland=burning lake... outside of NY, Chicago, St Louis, San Fransisco and Seatle, the majority of Americans have zero interest in cities... just us nerds...landmarks make the difference...

^^True. I always talk about cities and I know people who couldnt tell San Fransisco skyline from Los Angeles skyline.

And for smaller cities...

Peroria ....... will it play here?
Green Bay.... Packers (and really cold)
Duluth......... Really, really cold
South Bend.. Notre Dame
Madison....... Berkeley of the midwest
Battle Creek. Cereal
Wausau....... Insurance
Rochester.... Mayo Clinic

Omaha... just think of old gay guy that likes animals...


What the hell does that mean?

kansas city - the plaza

i think there are 9 iconic (meaning they immediately bring up a unique image in your mind) cities in the U.S., in no order:

1. NYC
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. Miami
5. New Orleans
6. Seattle
7. San Fran
8. Boston
9. Washington D.C.

---------------------

I agree with this list and would add Las Vegas.
Maybe revamp the second tier so Orlando for Disney World,
and Minneapolis for Mall of America, and Nashville for Country Music
would have a more appropriate category location.

I like the point system idea, but the grading is contextual to cities
not in these first two tiers. We can't award icons in a hometown, with
the same rating system used to determine those like San Francisco, or
Chicago. Icons aren't necessarily architectural, but emblematic, like
the Cable Cars in SFO for example.

Cities like Omaha, or KC or Indianapolis, etc. need sell location, and history
period. On a MKE thread someone posted an article with the heading
"City's Past Might Attract New Tourists" Some city governmental bodies/mayors
are realizing, finally, that it's okay if your hometown doesn't have a Cheesecake
Factory, or Hard Rock Cafe, that's not really what brings in the conventions, or tourists. DUH!!! Well at least this epiphany is hopefully a trend for the cities
outside the top 10.

i think there are 9 iconic (meaning they immediately bring up a unique image in your mind) cities in the U.S., in no order:

1. NYC
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. Miami
5. New Orleans
6. Seattle
7. San Fran
8. Boston
9. Washington D.C.

I'm not trying to bash, but what makes Boston iconic? For me, the only thing that comes to mind about Boston is "college town". What have they got, like a hundred colleges there? But does that make it iconic?

Seattle also seems a little weak on this list, but at least they've got an iconic building with the Space Needle. When I think of Seattle I immediately think of that.....and then all the rain.

I definitely agree with historybuffer, Las Vegas needs to be on the list.

Boston is the "Boston Tea Party" and Paul Revere. Boston is the history
of America. Boston is baked beans and lobster. Boston is always part of the
New England trip junkets, it's a city part of the autumn leaf changing
ritual of the Northeast.

Seattle is the Space Needle, rain, fog, "The West Coast"/"Pacific Northwest" = Pacific Ocean,
mountains.

historybuffer, where is St Louis?

St. Louis is on the same boat as places like Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Baltimore--- all are significant, but struggle to find a place in American consciousness.

Indy!

historybuffer, where is St Louis?

STL is maybe wedged between second and third tier. Third tier
being cities with professional sports franchises. The arch is instant
recognition, but I am not sure it's enough to bring in the tourists
like Mall of America does (MPLS being second tier).

Anybody know of a reliable site, for
tourist visitor stats? I think Travelocity?/Expedia? once had
a stat listing the top travel destinations.

Here's some interesting information when looking at the top American city destinations for foreign tourists.

“This summary table highlights overseas visitation to select U.S.
cities/Hawaiian Islands for 2000 and 2001. The table includes the
percent change from 2000 to 2001; as well as, each cities market share
for overseas visitors for both years. The table only covers Overseas
visitation estimates - excludes Canada and Mexico.”

“Data are derived from the Survey of International Air Travelers
(In-Flight Survey) Program and the Visitor Arrivals Program (I-94
Form)”

Source: U.S. Department of Commerce, ITA, Office of Travel and Tourism Industries

Release Date: March 2003

http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/cat/f-2000-45-561.html?ti_cart_cookie=20040321.123221.01557



CITY 2001 2001
MARKET SHARE VISITATION (000)
New York City 22.0% 4,803
Los Angeles 12.9% 2,816
Miami 11.7% 2,554
Orlando 11.3% 2,467
San Francisco 9.0% 1,965
Oahu/Honolulu 8.0% 1,747
Las Vegas 6.9% 1,506
Washington D.C. 5.5% 1,201
Chicago 4.9% 1,070
Boston 4.9% 1,070
Atlanta 3.2% 699
San Diego 2.7% 589
Tampa/St. Petersburg 2.3% 502
San Jose 1.9% 415
Philadelphia 1.9% 415
Houston 1.9% 415
Ft. Lauderdale 1.9% 415
New Orleans 1.8% 393
Anaheim 1.8% 393
Seattle 1.6% 349
Dallas/Ft. Worth 1.6% 349
Maui 1.3% 284
Florida Keys 1.3% 284
Detroit 1.3% 284
Phoenix 1.2% 262
Minn./St. Paul 1.2% 262
Denver 1.1% 240
Newark 0.9% 196
Ft. Myers 0.9% 196
West Palm Beach 0.8% 175
Sarasota 0.8% 175
Riverside/San Bern. 0.8% 175
Buffalo-Niagara Falls 0.8% 175
Salt Lake City 0.7% 153
Sacramento 0.7% 153
Nassau 0.7% 153
Monterey 0.7% 153
Baltimore 0.7% 153
Santa Barbara 0.6% 131
Oakland 0.6% 131
Hawaii (The Big Island) 0.6% 131
Austin 0.6% 131
San Antonio 0.5% 109
Portland 0.5% 109
Pittsburgh 0.5% 109
Melbourne 0.5% 109
Kauai 0.5% 109
Cleveland 0.5% 109
Cincinnati 0.5% 109
Atlantic City 0.5% 109
Charlotte 0.5% 109
St. Louis 0.4% 87
Raleigh Metro Area 0.4% 87
Columbus 0.4% 87

U.S. Department of Commerce, ITA, Office of Travel and Tourism Industries
http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/f-2001-45-561/index.html?

The Mall of America compared the The STL Arch. I will bet you that more international people have heard of the Arch than the Mall of America and more international visitors have visited the Arch than MOA.

... in no order:

1. NYC
2. Chicago
3. LA
4. Miami
5. New Orleans
6. Seattle
7. San Fran
8. Boston
9. Washington D.C.


I too generally agree with this list, but I also agree with a few others about Seattle being a weak candidate. To me, Philly should replace Seattle. Along with Las Vegas they would round out the top ten. And I wouldn't put Detroit too far behind, since it is "iconic" of the auto industry, even though it's fallen on hard times.

What the hell does that mean?

that gay old guy that had the Animal show in the 70s... thats the only thing America links to "Omaha"...

The Mall of America compared the The STL Arch. I will bet you that more international people have heard of the Arch than the Mall of America and more international visitors have visited the Arch than MOA.

I would agree that the Arch is more visually iconic internationally but I will guarantee that the MOA is far more visited. I'm searching for facts on this and hopefully you can do the same. I do know that the MOA had over 40 million visitors last year.

^ I really wouldn't use figures from 2001 because of 9/11.....Miami & Orlando where ghost towns after the attacks but the order of the cities is about right...realize to that Miami is the largest cruise ship port in the world so there is always going a large number of foreign tourists here anyways.

kansas city - the plaza

the plaza?? are you kidding? who knows about the plaza (outside of KC) if you never been there? when you think of KC it's BBQ and Jazz, man!

I would agree that the Arch is more visually iconic internationally but I will guarantee that the MOA is far more visited. I'm searching for facts on this and hopefully you can do the same. I do know that the MOA had over 40 million visitors last year.

The Gateway Arch receives 3.5 million visitors per year according the the St. Louis Post-Dispatch at http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/gatewayarch.nsf/0/11071B24D9565C68862570A00011C72D?OpenDocument

that gay old guy that had the Animal show in the 70s... thats the only thing America links to "Omaha"...


Oh well I guess no one's ever heard of the Oracle of Omaha. :| You're probably all to poor. ;) Well I better get back to enjoying my weekend before going back to work for that gay animal lover.

Do steaks ring a bell?

But out of the 40 million MOA visitors how many are repeat visitors.

^I would guess that there are WAY more repeat visitors to the MOA than to the Arch simply because of the nature of the attractions. Once you've seen the Arch, you've seen it. However, people always need more clothes and shit. Why would it matter who has more repeat visitors anyway?

It matters because people go to the Arch for one thing and one thing only. However someone that goes to the MOA may not be going there just because it is the MOA. It could be their favorite shoe store, clothing store, etc that they need to frequent several times a year. So its very hard to compare the two. If there was a Gap, A&F, Ediie Bauer under the Arch then we can begin to compare them.

A better question to ask is what will still be an attraction 50 years from now. The Mall of America or the Arch.