Bangladesh Airports and Aviation [Archive] - Page 9

iasif

May 3rd, 2008, 09:30 PM

Brickbats? If nobody can refute your allegations with positive proof, I suppose they'll always be brickbats. Did anybody from CAAB itself challenge you? Has any positive development occured in recent times that promise remedy to some of the major problems at ZIA and other airports/facilities?

Well, just after my first article was published in The Daily Star back in May 2006, the then Member-Operations of CAAB had sent me a mail (dated 15th May, 2006) in which he said this:

You know, I am Group Captain XXYYZZ, a fighter pilot of Bangladesh Air Force. For last 27 years I am in Air Force. Now, I have a unique chance to serve CAAB as Member(operation).

Please, do not undermine the ability of an officer at this stage. I wish, you could have interaction with air force environment, particularly the training
environment.

I wish, we would work with the new data and information those are available in world class publication or in Web site. I request you to collect most updated information of CAAB and then comment on the issue that you did in the last occasion.

In my reply to him (dated 16th May, 2006), I wrote this:

I know you are the Member Operations at CAAB. And make no mistake, I have very very high regards for the air force officials. I have known/know many air force officers at senior levels whom I respect unconditionally. I know the training environment at BAF is superb. The point I wanted to make, when I criticised BAF officials being deputed to CAAB to spearhead the organization is that at the very top level of any CAA in the world, it would be unwise to just depute a credible officer from the air force and expect him to be able to handle the very very different environment of commercial/civil aviation. While air force officers could be perfectly trained and experienced at their own trade, they are most likely to be not-readily-fittable for commercial aviation environment.

As for the authenticity of the data included in my article:
- The dateline information at the beginning of the article were all taken from published reports on several national dailies.
- The information on CAAB being assessed in Category 2 under FAA's IASA Program were taken from the official website of FAA, and form most part of my article itself. I only related the information published by FAA in terms of its effects on Biman. Here are the links to the FAA website pages from which I have taken information and included into my article unedited/unchanged:
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/definitions/

Also included with this email is an MS Excel file, which actually is the official results of the IASA Program assessment by FAA published on April 21, 2006. The file is also available on the website from my first link mentioned above.

I would consider the information provided on the official FAA website to be most dependable and authentic, and I hope you would agree with me. The results published is also quite updated being published on 21 April, 2006.

I hope I have adequately supported all information in my article, and some of your queries. If there is ANY information in my article that you'd like to be specifically clarified about, or seek reference thereof, please let me know and I'll be glad to oblige.

I never heard from him (or anyone else in CAAB) since! :)

iasif

May 3rd, 2008, 09:45 PM

i can't seem to understand why BAF don't purchase F16's or F18's their average cost is 25-30 million each and the militarys budget is 500 milllion according to internet sources. They should be able to buy 5 aircrafts per year for the air force, 1 frigate for the navy per year costs approx 100 million dollars and some modern tanks for the army. after buying for all three armed forces they should set aside 5 million each for yearly maintenance and still have money left over.

Please tell me you're kidding us!

1. BAF shouldn't buy any fighters at all!

2. The budget for the BAF should be cut down and be spared for national development projects. Whatever aircraft BAF would buy should be transport aircraft and choppers that will come of use for relief missions.

3. The Navy should have equipment to patrol our waterspace well enough to prevent smuggling, not to rage wars with any nation.

4. The Army doesn't need modern tanks because Bangladesh doesn't have enough land area with terrain conditions to require any more than what they have already.

Just in case you weren't kidding (I beg of you to tell me that you were!), here's my take for you:

1. Even if Bangladesh begged, US won't sell any F-15/16/18s to it, and therefore...

2. Bangladesh should use its whole US$ 6 billion forex reserves to buy 5x B-2 stealth bombers (at just US$ 1.2 billion each)!!! :cheers1:

TIslam

May 3rd, 2008, 09:58 PM

Well, just after my first article was published in The Daily Star back in May 2006, the then Member-Operations of CAAB had sent me a mail (dated 15th May, 2006) in which he said this:

You know, I am Group Captain XXYYZZ, a fighter pilot of Bangladesh Air Force. For last 27 years I am in Air Force. Now, I have a unique chance to serve CAAB as Member(operation).

Please, do not undermine the ability of an officer at this stage. I wish, you could have interaction with air force environment, particularly the training
environment.

I wish, we would work with the new data and information those are available in world class publication or in Web site. I request you to collect most updated information of CAAB and then comment on the issue that you did in the last occasion.

In my reply to him (dated 16th May, 2006), I wrote this:

I know you are the Member Operations at CAAB. And make no mistake, I have very very high regards for the air force officials. I have known/know many air force officers at senior levels whom I respect unconditionally. I know the training environment at BAF is superb. The point I wanted to make, when I criticised BAF officials being deputed to CAAB to spearhead the organization is that at the very top level of any CAA in the world, it would be unwise to just depute a credible officer from the air force and expect him to be able to handle the very very different environment of commercial/civil aviation. While air force officers could be perfectly trained and experienced at their own trade, they are most likely to be not-readily-fittable for commercial aviation environment.

As for the authenticity of the data included in my article:
- The dateline information at the beginning of the article were all taken from published reports on several national dailies.
- The information on CAAB being assessed in Category 2 under FAA's IASA Program were taken from the official website of FAA, and form most part of my article itself. I only related the information published by FAA in terms of its effects on Biman. Here are the links to the FAA website pages from which I have taken information and included into my article unedited/unchanged:
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/
http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/definitions/

Also included with this email is an MS Excel file, which actually is the official results of the IASA Program assessment by FAA published on April 21, 2006. The file is also available on the website from my first link mentioned above.

I would consider the information provided on the official FAA website to be most dependable and authentic, and I hope you would agree with me. The results published is also quite updated being published on 21 April, 2006.

I hope I have adequately supported all information in my article, and some of your queries. If there is ANY information in my article that you'd like to be specifically clarified about, or seek reference thereof, please let me know and I'll be glad to oblige.

I never heard from him (or anyone else in CAAB) since! :)

That is a basic and perhaps root cause of most problems in Bangladesh: people unwilling to admit/accept established facts because it puts their personal position in jeopardy. Institutional and organized bodies specially those by the government shall never amount to much anything until and unless they are willing to call a spade a spade. Rather unfortunate for the people.

TIslam

May 3rd, 2008, 10:06 PM

Please tell me you're kidding us!

1. BAF shouldn't buy any fighters at all!

2. The budget for the BAF should be cut down and be spared for national development projects. Whatever aircraft BAF would buy should be transport aircraft and choppers that will come of use for relief missions.

3. The Navy should have equipment to patrol our waterspace well enough to prevent smuggling, not to rage wars with any nation.

4. The Army doesn't need modern tanks because Bangladesh doesn't have enough land area with terrain conditions to require any more than what they have already.

Just in case you weren't kidding (I beg of you to tell me that you were!), here's my take for you:

1. Even if Bangladesh begged, US won't sell any F-15/16/18s to it, and therefore...

2. Bangladesh should use its whole US$ 6 billion forex reserves to buy 5x B-2 stealth bombers (at just US$ 1.2 billion each)!!! :cheers1:

Quite right. Instead of wasting money on status symbol fighter jets, they should purchase transports, choppers and maritime patrol (as well as weather surveillance) aircrafts. Aerial patrol ought to be more efficient than surface (patrol).

TIslam

May 3rd, 2008, 10:12 PM

Just saw CAAB's Chairmen list. CAAB never had a civilian man as chairman in its history. Excellent! The chief of CIVIL Aviation Authority has always been a military person! What do these nuthead Air Commodores know about civil aviation?

This a holdover from Pakistan days. But even Pakistan has moved away from appointing air force officials to head their civil aviation authority.

amar11372

May 3rd, 2008, 10:16 PM

United Airways flies beyond border by July
Eyes to hit break-even point
Star Business Report

http://thedailystar.net/photos/2008-05-04__bus02.jpg
Photo shows an aircraft of local private airline United Airways. The carrier is set to start flight on Dhaka-Kolkata route from the first week of July this year. "We will seek permission from Indian authorities this week,” said an official of the airline.

Local private airline United Airways plans to fly beyond the border by early July with an aim to reach a break-even level, an official of the carrier said yesterday.

“We are hopeful about starting flight on Dhaka-Kolkata route from the first week of July this year. We will seek permission from Indian authorities this week,” said Jilanee FR Chowdhury, director-in-charge of Marketing & Sales of the airline.

The carrier, a venture of non-resident Bangladeshis in the UK, is set to go beyond the border after flying about one year on the domestic routes. It will be the fifth entrant to the Dhaka-Kolkata route to bring competition among other carriers such as Biman Bangladesh Airlines, GMG Airlines, Air India and Jet Airways.

The United Airways unveiled the plan after the government had allowed the carrier to operate flights to Kolkata, Kathmandu, Bahrain, Kuala Lumpur and Dubai.

“Some 2.0 lakh passengers fly on the Dhaka-Kolkata route every year with 75 percent Bangladeshis. There is a very good prospect,” said Jilanee.

Industry people said pilgrims, medical treatment seekers, students and tourists mainly visit on the route and the number of passengers is growing by around 10 percent a year.

Starting operations in July last year, the carrier has made an outright purchase of two 37-seater Dash 8-100 aircraft to grab the potential of Bangladesh's aviation market that is growing by around 7.5 percent annually.

The airline has also planned to procure two wide-bodied aircraft in order to run competitively on the international routes.

United Airways, one of the four private carriers in Bangladesh, is now operating flights on all domestic destinations except Barisal and Rajshahi, Jilanee said.

The official said the carrier is close to reaching the break-even point. “We hope to reach a break-even point after going abroad. We foresee profit by the end of this year,” he said.

The official of the airline said the carrier will run daily flights to Kolkata. "But we want to operate two flights a day later on," he said.

Ismail R Chowdhury, vice president of GMG Airlines operating on the route for the last couple of years, observed that the entry of United Airways to the route will help boost the market.

“I think, none of the airlines will incur loss on the Dhaka-Kolkata route,” he said. “On an average there is about 10 percent increase in the number of passengers every year on the route. Entry of any new airline will help deepen and grow the overall market.”

http://thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=34935

AeroGeeK

May 4th, 2008, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by iasif
Please tell me you're kidding us!

1. BAF shouldn't buy any fighters at all!

2. The budget for the BAF should be cut down and be spared for national development projects. Whatever aircraft BAF would buy should be transport aircraft and choppers that will come of use for relief missions.

3. The Navy should have equipment to patrol our waterspace well enough to prevent smuggling, not to rage wars with any nation.

4. The Army doesn't need modern tanks because Bangladesh doesn't have enough land area with terrain conditions to require any more than what they have already.

Just in case you weren't kidding (I beg of you to tell me that you were!), here's my take for you:

1. Even if Bangladesh begged, US won't sell any F-15/16/18s to it, and therefore...

2. Bangladesh should use its whole US$ 6 billion forex reserves to buy 5x B-2 stealth bombers (at just US$ 1.2 billion each)!!!

Quite right. What BAngladesh should do is:
1. Sell all fighters with spare parts to some Chinese-backed country.
2. Disband Air Force & shift BAF's helicopter & C-130 squadrons to Army Aviation Corps.
3. With the money from sold fighters buy a squadron of utility helos [preferrably UH-60 Black Hawks]. The Bell-212's are getting old. They will need replacement in coming years. UH-60 should be a good replacement.
4. Buy 1-2 Maritime Patrol Aircrafts for Navy/Coast Guard.
5. Some are concerned that disbanding BAF will affect CTG Hill Tracts situation. They should realise BAF fighters won't come to any benefit there & specialised gunships are not a must-have. Because Army's Mi-17's & -171's can be transformed into gunships which will be enough for Shanti Bahini.

b0gtrotter

May 4th, 2008, 12:27 PM

Quite right. What BAngladesh should do is:
1. Sell all fighters with spare parts to some Chinese-backed country.
2. Disband Air Force & shift BAF's helicopter & C-130 squadrons to Army Aviation Corps.
3. With the money from sold fighters buy a squadron of utility helos [preferrably UH-60 Black Hawks]. The Bell-212's are getting old. They will need replacement in coming years. UH-60 should be a good replacement.
4. Buy 1-2 Maritime Patrol Aircrafts for Navy/Coast Guard.
5. Some are concerned that disbanding BAF will affect CTG Hill Tracts situation. They should realise BAF fighters won't come to any benefit there & specialised gunships are not a must-have. Because Army's Mi-17's & -171's can be transformed into gunships which will be enough for Shanti Bahini.
actually i wasen't kidding, every bengali person i talk to about this say 'who are they going to war with' as India is on all three side and can swallow up Bangladesh at any given moment.

couple of points i like to make is why then all the countries of the world have fighter planes in the air force? even countries that are poorer and disaster prone.

having fighter planes is not all about attacking a nation it is also for self defence, countries like India and Myanmar is not going to take you seriously if your primary role fighter is a F7. Look at Myanmar venturing into our terorrtorial waters and india's BSF picking off people near the border.

1)If countries like Bangladesh is gonna have a air force or navy then have one that is well equipped.

2)i'm not just saying buy fighters only but other utility aircrafts as well for emergency and disaster relief.

3)we can't win against such and such nation if that be the case and X wants to trample over us, nevertheless we'll give them hell before we go down trying. Albeit i've not met anyone who agrees with me, i'm i the only one thinking differently.

MohammedC

May 4th, 2008, 02:20 PM

VOLUNTARY RETIREMENT SCAM
Biman ordered to punish perpetrators
Mustafizur Rahman
The civil aviation ministry has directed the Biman authorities to take actions against those involved in forcing its employees to quit jobs under a voluntary retirement scheme last year.
‘Steps will be taken as per the directives of the ministry and on the basis of probe committee report,’ Biman’s managing director and chief executive officer MA Momen told New Age on Saturday.
He added that an investigation report to this effect was sent to the Biman headquarters.
‘I’ve learnt that the ministry had sent the report for necessary measures, but I haven’t yet seen it,’ the CEO of the national flag carrier said.
Sources in the ministry said the chief adviser’s special assistant on the civil aviation ministry last week ordered Biman authorities to take action against the officials involved in the irregularities, detected by a probe committee.
Biman had offered the voluntary retirement scheme in June 2007 to halve its approved manpower of 6,800. A total of 1,876 officials and employees of Biman, which was made a public limited company in July this year, availed of the scheme under the carrier’s manpower rationalization plan.
The ministry was flooded with complaints that the scheme was misused to force the honest and efficient people and shield the corrupt ones from legal actions.
The civil aviation ministry formed a probe committee in January amid allegations of irregularities in the retirement process. Recently, over 100 aggrieved officials filed writ petitions with the High Court challenging the legality of the scheme.
The aggrieved officials claimed in writing that they were forced to resign under the scheme.
The committee, led by a joint secretary of the ministry, found evidence that many employees were forced to accept the voluntary retirement scheme and quit jobs last year.
‘We summoned around 100 former officials of Biman for hearing in March, out of around 500 employees who had appealed to the ministry for getting back their jobs in February this year,’ an official said.
‘Many of us resigned under threat to avoid hassles of falsely being accused of corruption,’ said an ex-Biman official.
He regretted that many efficient officers were shown the door while corrupt employees, whose misdeeds for years brought the national carrier to the verge of collapse, remained scot-free.
The probe body found the job cut move reasonable, but questioned the process followed for implementing the scheme.
It suggested that efficient and honest officials and employees should be reinstated in jobs to help the state-owned airline see a turnaround.

http://www.newagebd.com/front.html#1

iasif

May 4th, 2008, 04:38 PM

having fighter planes is not all about attacking a nation it is also for self defence, countries like India and Myanmar is not going to take you seriously if your primary role fighter is a F7. Look at Myanmar venturing into our terorrtorial waters and india's BSF picking off people near the border.

1)If countries like Bangladesh is gonna have a air force or navy then have one that is well equipped.

2)i'm not just saying buy fighters only but other utility aircrafts as well for emergency and disaster relief.

3)we can't win against such and such nation if that be the case and X wants to trample over us, nevertheless we'll give them hell before we go down trying. Albeit i've not met anyone who agrees with me, i'm i the only one thinking differently.

Even if Bangladesh had a squadron each of F15/16/18s, you think India would still take it seriously? Did you know India can and does track the entirety of our airspace (simply because we don't have our own basic infrastructure do to so, and majority of our overflights are controlled by Calcutta tower too!)? Do you know that the Russians didn't sell to Bangladesh any of the armaments that makes the Mig-29s what they are?

As for BSF picking up and killing Bangladeshis, it is nothing but a sheer failure of diplomacy in part of Bangladesh. You think you could use an F-16 to bomb a BSF station after being reported that a Bangladeshi has been taken to their custody arbitrarily? Never! Face it, Bangladesh will have to survive at the mercy of India, like it or not! And its not only Bangladesh...Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and even Pakistan would have to swallow it as well. Bangladesh will starve to death if India shuts out its food exports. Feeding 150 million people with even one meal a day is a demanding task...would be even more so if the land that we have to harvest is deprived of water supply, again by India!

As for maritime patrol, the Navy needs basic surveillance equipment and probably a few (4 at the max) operational frigates to keep away the smugglers from Myanmar.

The war is on, it has been on since 1971...but its not territorial. Its a pity that we don't have enough grey cells yet to figure out how we are being killed day in and day out.

I'm not asking you to think in my way, and I respect your opinions. I have nothing against the armed forces, and nothing against India or any other country either. But I am all up for reality the way it is.

Sorry for being wayyyyy off-topic here folks!

mash_bfa

May 4th, 2008, 04:50 PM

just got some news a biman airbus 310 has deviated from the runway at zia (unconfirmed). Im on my rooftop at nikunja. Can see red flashing lights at the center of the runway. Thats all that can be seen because of the dark.

MohammedC

May 4th, 2008, 05:11 PM

just got some news a biman airbus 310 has deviated from the runway at zia. Im on my rooftop at nikunja. Can see red flashing lights at the center of the runway. Thats all that can be seen because of the dark.

:ohno: This is bad

mash_bfa

May 4th, 2008, 05:16 PM

bdnews24.com confirms Biman slips on runway causing the shutdown of the runway.

Dhaka, May 4 (bdnews24.com) – The airstrip of Zia International Airport remained closed from 7.10pm Sunday after a Biman Bangladesh aircraft from Sylhet skidded off the runway on landing, an official said.

ZIA director Wing Commander Saidul Hasan told bdnews24.com that the runway was closed.

No casualties were reported after the plane went out of control.

Hasan said an operation would start soon to take the aircraft away from the runway.

http://www.bdnews24.com/details.php?cid=2&id=51638

snoq

May 4th, 2008, 06:29 PM

Face it, Bangladesh will have to survive at the mercy of India, like it or not!

I appreciate and value your expert opinion about civil aviation matter (with some exception). But I have noticed in some of your comments, there is severe lack of strategic depth(no offence). I did not engage you before to keep sanctity of the thread but I felt something has to be said here.

Bangladesh has survived without any mercy from India for last 36 years. In fact Bangladesh has survived under very hostile and hegemonic acts of India for last 36 years. What makes you think and make you profess that we can not survive in future? This is utterly submissive mentality that some folks posses, perhaps need to be shamed of themselves.

Defense need of a country is most important one for survival regardless of how poor that country is. In india’s case it spent over $30 billion a year when half of its population live at or below poverty line. Does Indian go and say we have to survive at mercy of China??????

Besides, Bangladesh defense posture is a defensive one not an offensive one. So no question arises about Bangladesh attacking anyone. Rather Bangladesh as a friendly and responsible country tries to maintain its forces for her defense. On that note yes we need to do more to secure ourselves. How and what type of equipment we should get are perhaps matter of another discussion. And one can also go BD defense related forums to get more info.

Yes, our diplomacy is weak and lack of tactics and strategy. Also we severely lack various equipments and frameworks. But these inefficiencies can not be substituted by submission. If anything its lack of alternative and creative thinking that we should focusing on.

Feeding 150 million people with even one meal a day is a demanding task...would be even more so if the land that we have to harvest is deprived of water supply, again by India!

Do you really know how much food Bangladesh needs and how much is met by our own production? If you have gone through some stats you would not make this kind of wholesale comments. This year we have faced with extra shortfall because twin disaster and also untimely action. But average food import by Bangladesh can be substituted elsewhere.

QGR

May 4th, 2008, 06:29 PM

Face it, Bangladesh will have to survive at the mercy of India, like it or not! And its not only Bangladesh...Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and even Pakistan would have to swallow it as well. Bangladesh will starve to death if India shuts out its food exports. Feeding 150 million people with even one meal a day is a demanding task...would be even more so if the land that we have to harvest is deprived of water supply, again by India!

Everyone have their full right to express their own opinion and I have full respect for it. However I find the above statement a bit unfortunate. With globalization, every country in world has grown inter-dependency in trade, especially, the country having historical ties has developed both formal and informal trade relationship, which, if disrupted can cause severe problem for the both the country. I have traveled the seven sisters in India heavily and can tell you, having a bit of background in trade and banking, that they will find it extremely difficult if illegal trading/smuggling is stopped from Bangladesh. The same is for Bangladesh. Please remember the inward trade from India to Bangladesh are not charity by any means, and if import stops tomorrow, regardless of what happen to Bangladesh, India will find it quite difficult to find a substitute export market for USD 3 Billion (approx). This India-dependency thing has been discussed many times in many forums, and perceived risk is probably much greater than the actual risk, because these inter-dependencies are there for decades, if not centuries.

Anyway, as a number of members of this forum are leaving abroad I would like to know how many other independent nations have asked question on the sheer existence of their armed forces. But obviously question of buying F16 (!!!) should remain an aspiration only for at least next couple of decades till Bangladesh can establish themselves as an economy that can support a full-fledged warfare (even against Myanmar) for week even.

Extremely sorry to know about the Biman airbus disaster. I sincerely hope this will serve as a wake up call for the people in CAAB and government as a whole about the safety standard of Zia as well as overall aviation sector.

TIslam

May 4th, 2008, 06:34 PM

Face it, Bangladesh will have to survive at the mercy of India, like it or not! And its not only Bangladesh...Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and even Pakistan would have to swallow it as well.
Sorry for being wayyyyy off-topic here folks!

I'm sure it is okay to be off-topic once in a while. In today's world, no country really has to live at the mercy of another, save for the perhaps the Palestinians, but then Palestine is yet to be an independent nation. India can no more starve Bangladesh for food or water, or any of its neighbors and get away with it, as can any other country. Yes, India can swallow Bangladesh (against a heavy price) but it will never be able to digest it. Only a country like the United States with such a vast mobile military can go about attacking and occupying another country. But guess what? It paid a heavy price for doing so, in every sense of the word and shall probably not repeat its mistake for some decades to come. I say this because the US never seems to remember its lesssons from previous wars and, probably because when you maintain such a vast military-industrial complex, you have to justify its existence by expending its resources, from time to time.

For rest of the world, armed forces are nothing but feel good show pieces and for many countries, the only unified and disciplined body that can keep the country together in times of complete chaos. So, countries including Bangladesh, are going to continue to waste the money that they don't have on boastful and feel good military hardware, for centuries to come. Unless, someday the entire world unites and becomes something like UFP: United Federation of Planets! Yeah, that's the trekkie in me speaking! :)

QGR

May 4th, 2008, 07:44 PM

TIslam

May 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM

While the protests on ‘Bangladesh’s survival at India’s mercy’ can go on as a ‘once-in-a-while off topic issue’, on a more on-topic item, I just wonder how this Biman’s aircraft off-shoot 65 feet from runway centerline. Unless this is another drink-and-fly case, this may well be due to poor safety standard of Zia that we were discussing about in last couple of days. This surely will ground another aircraft (and a precious airbus too) of Biman for a good while and create a chaos in flight schedule. Looking forward too see some informative posts on the incident.

If the fault lies with ZIA, I expect a day shall arrive when most foreign airlines shall suspend flights to Dhaka. Perhaps then and only then, the government shall wake up and reform CAAB so that it does its job.

iasif

May 4th, 2008, 09:27 PM

snoq, QGR, TIslam, and everyone else in the forum...

Apologies for getting into the off-topic issue at the first place! I could try and defend my statements further here but then that'd be prolonging the off-topic discussion unnecessarily.

However, just like I respect everyone else's opinion, I also respect my own and would still stand by it (and not feel 'ashamed' as suggested by some) simply because they are my very own to which I have full rights to. This standpoint ought not to be confused as arrogance, as the realization of self-inadequacy (in terms of international diplomacy) was swiftly termed as being submissive.

If anyone is still not willing to accept the fact that people could be having different perspectives, and are interested in the statistics and facts I base any of my statements upon (regarding civil aviation or otherwise), please feel free to write to me at: imran.asif@gmail.com. I for one would be happy to try and justify my opinions as precisely as possible.

Getting back to topic, the A310 was operating flight BG118, was under the command of Capt. Tarique, and happens to be one of the 2 that were bought from Airbus directly.

amar11372

May 4th, 2008, 10:03 PM

ZIA suffers 2-hour shutdown

Sun, May 4th, 2008 9:46 pm BdST
Dhaka, May 4 (bdnews24.com) — Zia International Airport was closed for about two hours Sunday after a Bangladesh Biman aircraft skidded off the runway on landing, an official said. Updated

No injuries were reported.

Airport operations resumed shortly after 9.00pm.

http://www.bdnews24.com/details.php?cid=2&id=51653

amar11372

May 4th, 2008, 10:06 PM

^^ Biman must be one lucky Airline, it never had any major disaster. But the passengers must be freaked out by now.

mahemot

May 4th, 2008, 10:18 PM

by the way, these are my photos you found.

TIslam

May 4th, 2008, 10:19 PM

mash_bfa

May 4th, 2008, 10:38 PM

I was watching the news on NTV where the ZIA director Wing Commander Saidul Hasan mentioned that the aircraft slipped while exiting the runway via the center (charlie) taxiway.
I was wonderig, for a large aircraft like Airbus 310, how often do they exit via charlie taxiway after landing on runway14 with some 144 passengers and luggage??
Is there any chances that the pilot tried to make an early exit at a high speed causing the medium haul half loaded aircraft to slip?

cheers
mash

iasif

May 4th, 2008, 10:42 PM

While the protests on ‘Bangladesh’s survival at India’s mercy’ can go on as a ‘once-in-a-while off topic issue’, on a more on-topic item, I just wonder how this Biman’s aircraft off-shoot 65 feet from runway centerline. Unless this is another drink-and-fly case, this may well be due to poor safety standard of Zia that we were discussing about in last couple of days. This surely will ground another aircraft (and a precious airbus too) of Biman for a good while and create a chaos in flight schedule. Looking forward too see some informative posts on the incident.

The newspaper reports are saying the aircraft landed safely and went off the pavement while it was vacating the runway to enter a taxiway, which is pretty strange because the airplane is very, very slow at the point (since ZIA does not have high-speed taxiways)! It can't be due to the surface being slippery at that speed, so I guess either the pilot doing the manoever was being a bit too casual or the nose gear had developed steering problems to result in the aircraft veering off.

iasif

May 4th, 2008, 10:52 PM

I was wonderig, for a large aircraft like Airbus 310, how often do they exit via charlie taxiway after landing on runway14 with some 144 passengers and luggage??
Is there any chances that the pilot tried to make an early exit at a high speed causing the medium haul half loaded aircraft to slip?

cheers
mash

At about 5pm last afternoon (4th May), I saw a BG A310 literally rocketing off Rwy14 and I think it barely reached the Charlie taxiway point at the time of rotation. The plane, of course, must've been very lightly loaded. An A310 with 144 pax and baggage isn't too heavy and I guess the light load allowed for the quick exit attempt through Charlie after it landed. I've myself experienced a few arrivals on the A310s which took that taxiway exit and even once on an EK 772ER which was very light!

mash_bfa

May 5th, 2008, 09:07 AM

QGR

May 5th, 2008, 08:00 PM

At about 5pm last afternoon (4th May), I saw a BG A310 literally rocketing off Rwy14 and I think it barely reached the Charlie taxiway point at the time of rotation. The plane, of course, must've been very lightly loaded. An A310 with 144 pax and baggage isn't too heavy and I guess the light load allowed for the quick exit attempt through Charlie after it landed. I've myself experienced a few arrivals on the A310s which took that taxiway exit and even once on an EK 772ER which was very light!

Fortunately there was no casualty and according to newspaper report no major damage to the aircraft. Strangely, there were four incidents of aircraft shooting/veering off runways/taxiways in recent past of which three involving Biman. In the first case (in Osmani) the pilot was more busy chating with some VIP in the cockpit and in the second case (in Shah Amanat) he was drunk. I wonder what was the real cause this time!

These three incidents along with the one in DXB, should serve a real warning to Biman officials that a fatal one may well be on its way (god forbid). What are they doing about new aircraft procurement? Any update on Orient-Thai lease agreement or lease of 737NGs? Landing permit to JFK is to end in Oct with Biman yet to go for any tender to lease a long-haul!

Few days back I entered in to the cockpit of an F 28. I am no way an aviation expert, but having a mere look at the control panel, I hope and pray from the bottom of my heart that Biman get rid of these junks before having any fatal blow.

iasif

May 5th, 2008, 10:19 PM

Double post.

iasif

May 5th, 2008, 10:32 PM

What are they doing about new aircraft procurement? Any update on Orient-Thai lease agreement or lease of 737NGs? Landing permit to JFK is to end in Oct with Biman yet to go for any tender to lease a long-haul!

Few days back I entered in to the cockpit of an F 28. I am no way an aviation expert, but having a mere look at the control panel, I hope and pray from the bottom of my heart that Biman get rid of these junks before having any fatal blow.

Though the offer from Orient-Thai Airlines (represented by SS Motors...yeah its Farhad again! :mad:) for their 747-300 at US$ 5,395/block hour ACMI rate is the primary choice, the decision hasn't been absolutely finalized yet. AusBan's offer for the 747-300 at US$ 6,995/block hour is the secondary choice. Kabo Air (represented by Admark) is ruled out because the 747-200 they offered was a 1974 build and Biman had asked for planes built on or after 1980. Two other bidders had offered the 747-400, the authenticity of which is now being checked.

On another note, ILFC has offered Biman 2x B737-800s through its arrangements with Boeing and has asked Biman to confirm its decision by 15th May. I think this will (and should) get firmed up soon!

PS: You thought the F-28 flightdeck was bad? You should've seen the one of Zoom Airways' HS-748 I was speaking about a while ago! The stars and the terrain you'd know are the only way to go on that old bird!! :)

iasif

May 5th, 2008, 10:38 PM

Comments welcome!

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=35138

TIslam

May 6th, 2008, 04:13 AM

Comments welcome!

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=35138

Good article. I got a chuckle out of your mentioning of Qantas because ever since I watched Rainman, I always link them together in my mind. It didn't dawn on me until Dustin Hoffman insisted that the only airline he'd fly was Qantas, because it never had an accident.

You ought to emphasize (hopefully, more articles to follow?) the need for change in the corporate culture of Biman. I,, like most people found and find the ground staff of Biman to be unprofessional, indifferent and often, rude. It is only after you board their planes you notice the change in attitude, behavior and service (for the better). Whereas, to sell tickets, it should be the opposite, not that I'm advocating indifferent and rude behavior of cabin staff ... you know what I mean.

One hopes and expects that any post caretaker government would retain the services of the gentlemen you appear to be impressed with.

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 06:28 AM

One hopes and expects that any post caretaker government would retain the services of the gentlemen you appear to be impressed with.

I ain't no die-hard fan of them, but well, they're the best Biman among the lot had in a long while! Compare...Engr. Mosharraf/Mir Nasir vs. Mahbub Jamil...or most of the couple dozen-odd (with very few exceptions) ex-Biman MD's vs. Dr. Momen...you'd know what I mean!

As for the improvement in the corporate culture and services down the order, I know what you mean. In this article, I suggested that they begin from sorting out the 'macro' issues and in doing so, I believe, a lot of problems and inadequcies down the order will get automatically taken care of. For example, if they can adopt and practice a professional and competitively sound marketing plan, and stick to the fundamentals, they'll be able to improve through a range of other areas - customer service (on the ground and in-flight), flight operations, accounting practices, etc. Add to that a bit of fine-tuning and you'd have a nice little airline that might survive inside the boxing ring! :)

clearsky

May 6th, 2008, 08:19 AM

Comments welcome!

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=35138

Good article. I certainly think that you are making a difference in a field that very much requires the kind of expertise that you have been able to offer. I am also sadden that there aren't very many aviation experts, like you perhaps, who have come forward to stand up for the country that many have pretty much written off as a failure.

With regards to Biman, I stand by my previous position. And that is that the govt. should not bail out any organization financially, especially Biman that has a notorious history of incompetency and failures. Although with this recent backing/help/support by the govt. I am hoping for the best to happen in the future, but I will believe it when I see it.

Moin

May 6th, 2008, 02:32 PM

Today Biman published a tender for 2x B737-700/800 on ACMI.

AkiZV6 (Akbar)

May 6th, 2008, 02:55 PM

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 03:37 PM

Today Biman published a tender for 2x B737-700/800 on ACMI.

As a matter of fact, ILFC has already given an offer to Biman, at the request of Boeing, for 2x 737-800s on dry-lease. However, they've asked Biman to confirm their decision by 15th May, whereas the closing date of Biman's tender is 27th May.

In my opinion, Biman should accept ILFC's offer simply because of its reputation and building a relationship with ILFC could come of great help for Biman in the future.

TIslam

May 6th, 2008, 03:59 PM

As a matter of fact, ILFC has already given an offer to Biman, at the request of Boeing, for 2x 737-800s on dry-lease. However, they've asked Biman to confirm their decision by 15th May, whereas the closing date of Biman's tender is 27th May.

In my opinion, Biman should accept ILFC's offer simply because of its reputation and building a relationship with ILFC could come of great help for Biman in the future.

Dry lease? Does Biman have pilots rated for 737? Speaking of which, do you know of a certain Manzoor Qader? I don't whether he is still with Biman, but he is a son of (late) Capt. Taher and had joined Biman as a pilot. We grew up together (up to high school).

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 04:02 PM

Is there any chances that the pilot tried to make an early exit at a high speed causing the medium haul half loaded aircraft to slip?

I've just been confirmed about the incident and I guess you were absolutely right!

It was Capt. Tarique on command and he skidded not just because he tried to take the early exit but also because he was at a speed a bit too high to do the manoever properly. A number of pilots at Biman told me that it is a 'non-standard procedure' for a heavy aircraft to take that exit after landing on Rwy14, and is only attempted when the aircraft is very, very light which wasn't the case with this A310.

Now let's start guessing as to why he did it...my guess is nature was calling out at him real loud! :D

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 04:11 PM

Dry lease? Does Biman have pilots rated for 737? Speaking of which, do you know of a certain Manzoor Qader? I don't whether he is still with Biman, but he is a son of (late) Capt. Taher and had joined Biman as a pilot. We grew up together (up to high school).

Biman in its tender says ACMI for 6 months, then AMI for another span of time, and then only aircraft later on during the lease. However, in order to ensure maximum bids, it has kept options open for 'ACMI only' and 'dry-lease only' offers from lessors and operators alike.

Even if Biman takes the aircraft on dry-lease, it can rent crews, maintenance and insurance in separate packages to add on....though that makes the whole arrangement quite cumbersome.

About your friend, I don't know him yet but can surely try to find out. :)

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 04:17 PM

Hey people this is kind of off topic, but still relates to bangladesh aviation, yeah, does anybody have any pictures of the Aero Bengal AN-24RV or the Chinese Harbin Y-12?

If you don't know what Aero Bengal is, it was another private airlines,which like Air Parabat got defunct.

There's one at the HQ of CAAB....framed on one of the walls of the staircase as you'd go up. It shows the Aero Bengal Y-12 super-imposed with a photo of the parliament building and reads "STOL flight-er shubho-jatra"!!!

They should've had another such poster alongside that...showing the Air Parabat Let-410 on the paddy field which could read "STOL flight-er shubho shomapti"!!! ;)

QGR

May 6th, 2008, 06:38 PM

Now let's start guessing as to why he did it...my guess is nature was calling out at him real loud! :D

Chatting with VIP in the cockpit, drink-and-fly and now natural call!!! I wonder what’s next. :ohno:

QGR

May 6th, 2008, 06:48 PM

Though the offer from Orient-Thai Airlines (represented by SS Motors...yeah its Farhad again! :mad:) for their 747-300 at US$ 5,395/block hour ACMI rate is the primary choice, the decision hasn't been absolutely finalized yet.

PS: You thought the F-28 flightdeck was bad? You should've seen the one of Zoom Airways' HS-748 I was speaking about a while ago! The stars and the terrain you'd know are the only way to go on that old bird!! :)

I am not surprised at all re: SS. Though some of the action taken by govt. on Biman is commendable, Biman is, and probably will be haunted by some ghosts for a while...

Thanks for the info on Zoom Airways. Even in the worst of my nightmare, I had any plan to fly beyond Biman and GMG (when absolutely forced to) in Bangladesh.

I ain't no die-hard fan of them, but well, they're the best Biman among the lot had in a long while! Compare...Engr. Mosharraf/Mir Nasir vs. Mahbub Jamil...or most of the couple dozen-odd (with very few exceptions) ex-Biman MD's vs. Dr. Momen...you'd know what I mean!
:)

Thanks for good article and even a better comparison...:)

iasif

May 6th, 2008, 07:29 PM

Thanks for the info on Zoom Airways. Even in the worst of my nightmare, I had any plan to fly beyond Biman and GMG (when absolutely forced to) in Bangladesh.

You won't be lucky enough to fly on Zoom even if you wanted to! They don't transport mere mortals like you and I...they're a shrimp fries specialist! :D

QGR

May 6th, 2008, 07:45 PM

You won't be lucky enough to fly on Zoom even if you wanted to! They don't transport mere mortals like you and I...they're a shrimp fries specialist! :D

My heartiest condolences for the shrimps….

QGR

May 6th, 2008, 08:10 PM

Today Biman published a tender for 2x B737-700/800 on ACMI.

I am surprised to see that Biman has not included the domestic routes in the Tender Notice. Does this mean 'Long Live F 28s!!!'?

clearsky

May 6th, 2008, 09:05 PM

QGR

May 6th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Domestic routes are loss making routes for Biman for as many years as you can count backwards. So, I think they've decided to do away with domestic service and let the private carriers fill in the vacuums.

Still there are economic viability for CGP, CXB and ZYL routes, which BG is likely to continue. More than the loss or gain, they also need to consider the safety standard of Fokker Aircrafts.

If they are focusing on south/south-east Asian routes including BKK, KUL, SIN routes (that will have higher load), they should have gone for 800/900 series rather than 700 series to get the benefit of better economy per seat.

Skyprince

May 7th, 2008, 08:01 AM

I don't if somebody has posted this one..

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/3/2/1338236.jpg[/

iasif

May 7th, 2008, 09:03 AM

I am surprised to see that Biman has not included the domestic routes in the Tender Notice. Does this mean 'Long Live F 28s!!!'?

Domestic routes are loss making routes for Biman for as many years as you can count backwards. So, I think they've decided to do away with domestic service and let the private carriers fill in the vacuums.

Well, I think once Biman sorts out the interim capacity requirement for the mainline fleet, we may as well see Biman giving attention to the domestic routes again in a whole new way! ;)

iasif

May 7th, 2008, 09:07 AM

I don't if somebody has posted this one..

Yes...it has been posted...here and on airliners.net and has won the not-so-coveted award for the ugliest plane ever!

And we had folks here talking about the 'creative arts department' at Biman...! :)

Skyprince

May 7th, 2008, 11:56 AM

^^ I don't think so, It looks MUCH nicer than the all-time Biman livery.

bromora

May 7th, 2008, 11:56 AM

Hi Guys,

It's been a while since I got back but due to my PC being busted, I haven't been able to sort through the photos of ZYL I took on my way back. Instead of linking them here, I've uploaded to Flickr (Slideshow on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7928706@N08/sets/72157604553642966/show/)) and if you click the "i" symbol, there should see a brief description of each shot. Should have some videos up as soon as my new PC arrives in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2416362235_9266a04623_d.jpg

Moin

May 7th, 2008, 12:09 PM

Local airlines feel the pinch of higher fuel bills and an intense competition leading to a price war, with analysts saying small and new entrants could head for ........

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=35356

Skyprince

May 7th, 2008, 06:51 PM

iasif

May 7th, 2008, 07:48 PM

I just checked the price for KL-Dhaka & KL- Macau by various airlines ( all round-trip price including tax )

KL-Dhaka ( 3hr 50 mins )

GMG- $ 420
Thai - $ 500
Biman -$ 550
Malaysian -$ 660

KL-Macau ( 3hr 50 mins )

Air Asia $ 110
Malaysian $ 250

Both Macau and Dhaka are same distance from here, with same daily frequencies ( 4-5 a day ), but why Macau is faar cheaper than Dhaka ? I need explanation from airline experts.

The bottomline reason is yield management. The factors that affect that are airport fees/charges and applicable taxes; special arrangements in bilateral ASA's; etc. You need to look at Air Asia diiferently than the others here because their operation model is entirely different than the others listed.

Also, do you know if Air Asia sells all the seats on the KL-Macau flight for USD 110 round-trip fare and/or the length of advance booking required? Most LCC's sell a specific number of seats (often booked a specific time ahead of the flight) on their flights for a throwaway price, while the remaining seats are sold at higher prices and the overall yield makes the flight feasible.

Even legacy carriers segment same class seats by prices, which varies depending on the route. For example, I had bought 2 tickets on BA's World Traveller class for the same flight (DAC-LHR) but the tickets were bought with a span of 2 months time between them. The second ticket was USD 175 more expensive than the first one. The reason is simple: when a pax buys the ticket well in advance, it is helping the carrier by improving its cash flow, which has its own intrinsic value to the airline.

There's a book on Southwest Airlines (the big momma of all LCC's) called "Nuts!". Give it a read and you'd know how the minute details of operational efficiency can aggregate into something that creates tremendous value for the passengers!

QGR

May 7th, 2008, 08:03 PM

QGR

May 7th, 2008, 08:06 PM

The bottomline reason is yield management.

Thanks. I didn't noticed this post while I submitted my one on this. Sounds quite technical but resonable as well.

TIslam

May 7th, 2008, 10:26 PM

I am not an airline expert. But, being a banker, the answer appears pretty simple to me:

2. Malaysian government maintains far more sanity in imposing tax. The ticket fair includes some 12/14 thousand Taka travel tax, which probably is one of the highest paid by any nation for similar travel.

In the US, taxes and airport/fuel surcharges add $200 ~ $300 per ticket for overseas flights, these days.

snoq

May 7th, 2008, 11:35 PM

Asif or anyone has any picture of BAF C130 going to Myanmar for relief operaterion?

aman

May 8th, 2008, 12:10 AM

So far this are the pic i found..

http://i26.tinypic.com/qxqogy.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/2/2/1/1331122.jpg

http://www.bdmilitary.com/forum/uploads/1174120588/gallery_1_32_12564.jpg

Skyprince

May 8th, 2008, 10:53 AM

The bottomline reason is yield management. The factors that affect that are airport fees/charges and applicable taxes; special arrangements in bilateral ASA's; etc. You need to look at Air Asia diiferently than the others here because their operation model is entirely different than the others listed.

Also, do you know if Air Asia sells all the seats on the KL-Macau flight for USD 110 round-trip fare and/or the length of advance booking required? Most LCC's sell a specific number of seats (often booked a specific time ahead of the flight) on their flights for a throwaway price, while the remaining seats are sold at higher prices and the overall yield makes the flight feasible.

Even legacy carriers segment same class seats by prices, which varies depending on the route. For example, I had bought 2 tickets on BA's World Traveller class for the same flight (DAC-LHR) but the tickets were bought with a span of 2 months time between them. The second ticket was USD 175 more expensive than the first one. The reason is simple: when a pax buys the ticket well in advance, it is helping the carrier by improving its cash flow, which has its own intrinsic value to the airline.

There's a book on Southwest Airlines (the big momma of all LCC's) called "Nuts!". Give it a read and you'd know how the minute details of operational efficiency can aggregate into something that creates tremendous value for the passengers!

Very informative !

The price I cited for Air Asia & all other airlines in that post is with assumption that booking is made 2 months in advance.( I usually booked at least 2 months to departure ) Of course if I book Air Asia ticket to Macau a week or 24 hrs prior to departure it would be double or triple that $110 amount :laugh:

But even if I book any flights to Dhaka by any airline 2 months before departure, the cheapest I could get is still $ 420 by GMG.

The question is, how could Air Asia maintain the very low price -with the same amount of oil burned, using brand-new Airbus, boasts excellent service and great food on board - while full carriers couldn't ?

I am not an airline expert. But, being a banker, the answer appears pretty simple to me:

1. The demand is greater than the supply in DAC-KUL route because of large number of NRB and workers living in that country. Just try to book a ticket in MY with a short notice and you will find out.

2. Malaysian government maintains far more sanity in imposing tax. The ticket fair includes some 12/14 thousand Taka travel tax, which probably is one of the highest paid by any nation for similar travel.

For almost all cases if you can buy ticket from the destination country, you will find the price of the ticket is lower than it costs you in BD.

However, there may be other technical reasons on which, I would love to see some expert’s comment just like you.

Hi QGR. Hmm.. I don't think it's supply vs demand issue... because if demand is low for Macau line I don't think Air Asia & MH could offer 4-5 frequency a day. If tax is the issue, then the same amount of tax shud've been imposed on Macau line as well. But this is not the case..

In the US, taxes and airport/fuel surcharges add $200 ~ $300 per ticket for overseas flights, these days.

I think the title "most generous full carrier" goes to Cathay Pacific- they add only $75- $150 for each long-haul intercontinental return ticket.

AeroGeeK

May 8th, 2008, 01:34 PM

planemannyc

May 8th, 2008, 02:32 PM

Biman MD asked to show cause for
bypassing ministry decision
Staff Correspondent

The civil aviation and tourism ministry has ordered the managing director and chief executive officer of the Biman Bangladesh Airlines Limited to show cause for presenting ‘talking points’ against the government decision bypassing the ministry at a meeting of the Bangladesh–Saudi Arabia Joint Economic Commission in April.
‘We have served the notice to show cause in the last week of April seeking immediate clarification of Biman’s move against the interest of the people, which is quite uncalled for, but we are yet to get any response from the Biman authorities,’ a senior civil aviation ministry official told New Age on Wednesday. Biman on its own forwarded the talking points suggesting that it was not necessary to incorporate multiple designation system in the air services agreement between Bangladesh and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to the commission’s 9th meeting held in Dhaka in April 7–8.
There was no necessity for enhancement of capacity and frequency entitlements at the moment or designating a second carrier by either country, according to Biman’s opinion, which is viewed against the interest of the people as the government, on the other hand, proposed through diplomatic channels for increasing the frequencies and introducing the multiple designation system to cope with the huge rush of passengers, mostly workers, to the Middle East, said the notice sent to Biman’s managing director MA Momen.
‘Presently, the Saudi Arabian Airlines is running 13 weekly scheduled flights to and from Dhaka including twice-weekly freighter flights and Biman, on the other hand, is running nine weekly flights to and from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,’ said an official concerned

Source: New Age
http://newagebd.com/front.html#10

Quite bold of Biman to try to negotiate air service agreements on its own, especially given their miserable failure in meeting demand on traffic between BD and KSA.

iasif

May 8th, 2008, 03:07 PM

The question is, how could Air Asia maintain the very low price -with the same amount of oil burned, using brand-new Airbus, boasts excellent service and great food on board - while full carriers couldn't ?

The operational model of all LCC's are supposed to be far more efficient than that of legacy carriers. However, there are potential downsides of this too - like the way Southwest got accused of not maintaining adequate safety in terms of maintenance while they pushed their planes to keep flying.

LCC's typically aim to make money not from the fare of the ticket itself, but from other services provided. For example, they often offer a meagre baggage allowance (sometimes none) and charge for every piece carried by the pax and fuel surcharge factor is also very steep for the LCC's. Mr. Fernandes is greatly inspired by Mr. O' Leary and thus you will find some striking similarities between Air Asia and Ryanair despite the fact that the 2 carriers operate in entirely different markets!

iasif

May 8th, 2008, 03:12 PM

Source: New Age
http://newagebd.com/front.html#10

Quite bold of Biman to try to negotiate air service agreements on its own, especially given their miserable failure in meeting demand on traffic between BD and KSA.

Biman wasn't trying to negotiate the ASA on its own here...it only gave its opinion (despite not being asked, which is offense # 1) which goes against the government's decision to increase frequencies and allow multi-designation (and that's the offense # 2 from the point of view of the GoB).

Now, can anyone tell me...if multi-designation is endorsed on the ASA, which will be the second carrier from KSA, if any?

Think about it carefully...who will be best favoured if the amendments go through the way GoB wants it? ;)

AeroGeeK

May 8th, 2008, 05:55 PM

Special taskforce set-up to tackle irregularities & corruption in Biman are requesting suggestions from people. Their mailing address is bimantf2008@gmail.com. Guess where this taskforce is situated? You are right, Armed Forces Division at Dhaka cantonment!

shatilislam

May 8th, 2008, 07:17 PM

Biman wasn't trying to negotiate the ASA on its own here...it only gave its opinion (despite not being asked, which is offense # 1) which goes against the government's decision to increase frequencies and allow multi-designation (and that's the offense # 2 from the point of view of the GoB).

Now, can anyone tell me...if multi-designation is endorsed on the ASA, which will be the second carrier from KSA, if any?

Think about it carefully...who will be best favoured if the amendments go through the way GoB wants it? ;)

are you thinking about emirates, though a carrier from 3rd country? would it be possible for emirates to take the advantage of the proposed ASA and commence direct flight betn KSA and BD?

QGR

May 8th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Hi QGR. Hmm.. I don't think it's supply vs demand issue... because if demand is low for Macau line I don't think Air Asia & MH could offer 4-5 frequency a day. If tax is the issue, then the same amount of tax shud've been imposed on Macau line as well. But this is not the case.

Obviously the demand is there for Macau line but probably with adequate supply. Travel tax rate of BD and Malaysia are unlikely to be same, so the amount may not be the same as well.

However, as it appears, there are much more technical issues as well.

QGR

May 8th, 2008, 07:54 PM

Now, can anyone tell me...if multi-designation is endorsed on the ASA, which will be the second carrier from KSA, if any?

Think about it carefully...who will be best favoured if the amendments go through the way GoB wants it? ;)

Tricky! It would have been an easy answer if the question was to KSA.

Please don't keep us in suspense for too long...

TIslam

May 8th, 2008, 09:12 PM

A few days ago I saw BA's offer for DAC-LHR-DAC for $699 & DAC-USA-DAC for &1099. How much surcharge do they add on these flights? And why don't they mention that surcharges are excluded from these prices?

The vast majority of airlines, travel agencies, online reservation system, never advertise air fares that include all taxes and fees. In the last couple of years, I have observed the taxes and fees to vary between $200 and $350.

iasif

May 8th, 2008, 09:37 PM

are you thinking about emirates, though a carrier from 3rd country? would it be possible for emirates to take the advantage of the proposed ASA and commence direct flight betn KSA and BD?

I don't think KSA would allow EK to operate direct flights between KSA and Bangladesh. Technically though, EK can do it if KSA allows them to.

Tricky! It would have been an easy answer if the question was to KSA.

Please don't keep us in suspense for too long...

You're almost there! A multi-designation endorsement on the ASA for both countries would allow multiple carriers (apart from SV and BG who are current endorsed from each country) from the 2 countries to operate flights to each other. Now, KSA doesn't even have a second international airline...!

Smell what's cooking? ;)

AeroGeeK

May 8th, 2008, 10:39 PM

iasif why don't you send suggestions on bimantf2008@gmail.com?

QGR

May 8th, 2008, 10:55 PM

You're almost there! A multi-designation endorsement on the ASA for both countries would allow multiple carriers (apart from SV and BG who are current endorsed from each country) from the 2 countries to operate flights to each other. Now, KSA doesn't even have a second international airline...!

Smell what's cooking? ;)

While I strongly believe that enhanced competition will result better efficiency and private sector can adopt that efficiency much faster than a SOE, government's job is to ensure level playing ground for competitors protecting the national interest. However, Government's blind patronage to certain people/interest group, even sacrificing national interest, is nothing new in this country. But it is really unfortunate at a time when Biman is trying to turn around.

Don't know why, Biman always was a step son to the govt. Despite repeated request from many quarters, especially lenders interested to finance Biman always suggested the govt not to park the loss arising out of high price of jet fuel only on Biman's book. As both Biman and BPC are fully owned by govt, they should have absorbed some of this loss to BPC's book, especially when BPC/govt is providing subsidy for all other kind of fuels. Instead, the govt allowed to pile up this loss and made the Biman's financials looking horrible for any lender or investor. Finally, though, the good sense prevails as this govt waived this due and allowed Biman to borrow commercially as well as raise capital through primary issue. At this time govt should give both support and protection to Biman so that the good initiative doesn't go down to drain. The loss that govt has absorbed for Biman has to be allocated from the revenue budget, so it tax payer's interest the govt is sacrificing by promoting interest of certain people.

Whatever is coocking dosen't look too tasty to me as even with all these preferential treatment that our good friend is enjoying (or rather arranging), personally I don’t see this airline flaying very high in near future as far as the financial aspects are concerned. But this is entirely my own opinion and no way meant to show any disrespect to anyone.

Sorry for a long one.

iasif

May 8th, 2008, 11:12 PM

While I strongly believe that enhanced competition will result better efficiency and private sector can adopt that efficiency much faster than a SOE, government's job is to ensure level playing ground for competitors protecting the national interest. However, Government's blind patronage to certain people/interest group, even sacrificing national interest, is nothing new in this country. But it is really unfortunate at a time when Biman is trying to turn around.

Don't know why, Biman always was a step son to the govt. Despite repeated request from many quarters, especially lenders interested to finance Biman always suggested the govt not to park the loss arising out of high price of jet fuel only on Biman's book. As both Biman and BPC are fully owned by govt, they should have absorbed some of this loss to BPC's book, especially when BPC/govt is providing subsidy for all other kind of fuels. Instead, the govt allowed to pile up this loss and made the Biman's financials looking horrible for any lender or investor. Finally, though, the good sense prevails as this govt waived this due and allowed Biman to borrow commercially as well as raise capital through primary issue. At this time govt should give both support and protection to Biman so that the good initiative doesn't go down to drain. The loss that govt has absorbed for Biman has to be allocated from the revenue budget, so it tax payer's interest the govt is sacrificing by promoting interest of certain people.

Whatever is coocking dosen't look too tasty to me as even with all these preferential treatment that our good friend is enjoying (or rather arranging), personally I don’t see this airline flaying very high in near future as far as the financial aspects are concerned. But this is entirely my own opinion and no way meant to show any disrespect to anyone.

Sorry for a long one.

Never mind the length...I agree with you on that every bit!

Now that BG has finally gone ahead with the fleet renewal which is set to cost it over US$ 2 billion, the government ought to give it a certain degree of protection for it to gather its operations with the new fleet! I am personally not in favour of providing endless and/or non-sensical protection to govt. enterprises but in this case, Biman rightfully needs it for a certain period of time.

Having said that, while I agree that Biman should be given protection for its flight operations, I think its secondary activities (ground services at BD airports, catering, etc.) should be made to face competition through deregulation in these service areas so that the airline can focus on improving its primary business (flight operations) and not take for granted the revenue from its secondary businesses to almost singularly help it earn its bread & butter!

QGR

May 8th, 2008, 11:37 PM

Having said that, while I agree that Biman should be given protection for its flight operations, I think its secondary activities (ground services at BD airports, catering, etc.) should be made to face competition through deregulation in these service areas so that the airline can focus on improving its primary business (flight operations) and not take for granted the revenue from its secondary businesses to almost singularly help it earn its bread & butter!

Unfortunately enough, Biman has shown much more efficiency in raring day old chicks and cooking meals (not quite sure about the ground services though…) so far then their 'primary business'. But you are absolutely right.

On a different note, in the tender schedule for 737NGs, Biman has added a fleet modernization and interim fleet management plan (I wonder why in the tender schedule!!!), which looks rather ambitious to me. They are trying to acquire 4 B777-300ER on lease ASAP. Are these aircrafts available for lease? Even if it does, this must be hell expensive. Have anyone analyze cost-income ratio for ACMI lease operation for this type of aircraft?

iasif

May 8th, 2008, 11:56 PM

On a different note, in the tender schedule for 737NGs, Biman has added a fleet modernization and interim fleet management plan (I wonder why in the tender schedule!!!), which looks rather ambitious to me. They are trying to acquire 4 B777-300ER on lease ASAP. Are these aircrafts available for lease? Even if it does, this must be hell expensive. Have anyone analyze cost-income ratio for ACMI lease operation for this type of aircraft?

That's in the tender schedule perhaps to: (i) create an impression (!?!) and, (ii) to lure bidders (who otherwise might not bother to bid at all) of the future business prospects with Biman! :)

If Boeing helps as it has promised to, BG might get a few 777s from the lessor-customers of Boeing (ILFC, GECAS, etc.) just like ILFC has extended its offer this time for the 2x 737-800s. Lessors like ILFC, GECAS and other renowned ones literally despise the idea of doing business with BG and its only at the request of Boeing that they might give it a consideration to make an offer to BG.

As for cost-income analysis...I found it ridiculous that BG guaranteed only 150 block hours per month for the 2x 737NGs they're seeking! This would effectively mean that either they won't get too many options or they'd end up with an absurdly high block hour cost which would at the end of the day cost Biman millions in extra. For example, most bidders with a 737NG won't bid for any less than 200 block hours/month...so either they'd not make an offer at all, or they'd spread the lease rate for 200 hours/month over 150 hours/month thus resulting in a far higher block hour cost, and then BG would actually end up using more than 150 hours/month and pay the additional lease payments which could've been avoided at the first place had they guaranteed higher block hours!! With the kind of people you have in Biman's planning department, you really can't expect them to comprehend anything that makes sense... :mad:

TIslam

May 9th, 2008, 08:37 PM

I couldn't find the tender at Biman's website. Anybody have the link? Thanks.

QGR

May 9th, 2008, 10:03 PM

I couldn't find the tender at Biman's website. Anybody have the link? Thanks.

Here is the link:

http://www.bimanair.com/upload/Uploads/b737.pdf

Cheers,

iasif

May 9th, 2008, 10:15 PM

I couldn't find the tender at Biman's website. Anybody have the link? Thanks.

http://www.bimanair.com/tender_notices.asp

Its at the bottom of the page.

planemannyc

May 9th, 2008, 11:53 PM

Asif or anyone has any picture of BAF C130 going to Myanmar for relief operaterion?

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg

Although mislabeled as relief from Japan - obviously the photographer / journalist / news desk person is mostly likely a fellow American (and thinks any flag with a red circle must be Japanese).

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg/#photoViewer=/080509/photos_wl_pc_afp/b892baf38fe0d73db862c26b7a7caebf

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080508/481/9a2b3b47dd6c428aae319911907d07d4/

iasif

May 10th, 2008, 01:26 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg

Although mislabeled as relief from Japan - obviously the photographer / journalist / news desk person is mostly likely a fellow American (and thinks any flag with a red circle must be Japanese).

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg/#photoViewer=/080509/photos_wl_pc_afp/b892baf38fe0d73db862c26b7a7caebf

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080508/481/9a2b3b47dd6c428aae319911907d07d4/

On another note, it is sickening to see how the military government is preventing relief material to reach the victims...when the death toll itself is said to be around 100,000 already!

TIslam

May 10th, 2008, 05:53 AM

On another note, it is sickening to see how the military government is preventing relief material to reach the victims...when the death toll itself is said to be around 100,000 already!

Being profane isn't my style, but in this instance i.e. the military government in Burma, must have their heads up their a....! Another hit like the last one, and they won't have much of a country to govern. This is the height of being selfish! They won't let foreigners in because it might threaten their grip on power. :wallbash:

snoq

May 10th, 2008, 06:35 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg

Although mislabeled as relief from Japan - obviously the photographer / journalist / news desk person is mostly likely a fellow American (and thinks any flag with a red circle must be Japanese).

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080509/ids_photos_wl/r1247072519.jpg/#photoViewer=/080509/photos_wl_pc_afp/b892baf38fe0d73db862c26b7a7caebf

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Tens-thousands-killed-Myanmar-cyclone/ss/events/wl/050408myanmarcylcone/im:/080508/481/9a2b3b47dd6c428aae319911907d07d4/

Thanks planemannyc, good to see BD military extend helping hand.

snoq

May 10th, 2008, 06:54 AM

http://www.dailynayadiganta.com/fullnews.asp?News_ID=80746&sec=1

QGR

May 10th, 2008, 11:43 AM

http://www.dailynayadiganta.com/fullnews.asp?News_ID=80746&sec=1

I found this seniority thing rather amusing. A person can not become more talented just because he was born earlier and end up joining an office a year or two earlier. While there is need for experience, the main yardstick for promotion or appointment should be merit and performance. Absence of these two criteria along with our well know culture of corruption has turned the public sector what it is today - inefficient to the highest extend and a burden to society.

What is going on is Myanmar is really unfortunate. But one can hardly expect anything better from a military govt, which has made the country almost isolated from the rest of the world. It may sound rather sadistic, but we should be thankful to Nargis for its not choosing Bangladesh for destruction. The loss of life may have been less due to far improved disaster management system (as in the case of Sidr), but the impact on our fragile economy could have been catastrophic.

iasif

May 10th, 2008, 08:49 PM

IATA Clearing House, in a letter issued to airlines around the world, has advised them to be cautious in dealing with 3 airlines as they have defaulted settling payments through ICH - Air Botswana, Mahan Air, and...GMG Airlines!

More about the functions of the IATA Clearing House here:
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/finance/clearing/ich.htm

As of today, it also owes Biman about BDT 8 million in relation with using its cargo handling services. As the overdue has exceeded its credit limit, Biman has suspended prooviding cargo handling services to GMG. As a result, GMG had to leave behind cargo worth BDT 1.4 million in revenues (for the DAC-DXB flight) back in Dhaka on 9th May alone!

Talk about being in a mess!

TIslam

May 10th, 2008, 09:25 PM

Tmac

May 10th, 2008, 09:51 PM

where is our resident GMG expert?

TIslam

May 10th, 2008, 10:17 PM

where is our resident GMG expert?

Sleeping! (I hope) :)

D_block

May 10th, 2008, 11:00 PM

AeroGeeK

May 11th, 2008, 12:50 AM

NYnites99

May 11th, 2008, 08:25 PM

iasif

May 11th, 2008, 10:31 PM

Is GMG the first BD carrier to earn this honor? :bash:

I haven't heard of BG being in that situation, and pure domestic operators wouldn't be kissing that dust...so I reckon GMG is indeed the first one from BD!

haha quite a mess indeed. hey iasif, could you post the letter ICH sent by any chance? would love to see what they wrote. there was nothing on their website about GMG.

Maybe I could...but will have to check with the recipient operator (!!!) that I got my copy from so it doesn't infringe their non-disclosure issues, if any! :)

AeroGeeK

May 11th, 2008, 10:49 PM

Will GMG still be getting another 743 in the current situation?

amar11372

May 11th, 2008, 11:30 PM

International Business News
China unveils new jumbo jet company
Afp, Beijing

China unveiled its own jumbo jet maker in Shanghai on Sunday, state press reported, in a move that could eventually rival Airbus and Boeing.

The new company, Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (CACC), will be responsible for researching, developing, manufacturing and marketing a made-in-China large passenger aircraft, Xinhua news agency said.

China announced early last year that it planned to develop a 150-seat passenger aircraft, which could eventually compete against planes made by Boeing and Airbus, the world's two dominant commercial jet makers.

CACC has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan (2.7 billion dollars), Xinhua said, with the government investing 6 billion yuan to become the largest shareholder.

State press reported in January that China's two major aircraft makers, both state-owned, were expected to consolidate their commercial aircraft manufacturing businesses and set up a firm to make a domestic passenger jet.

http://thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=36089

amar11372

May 11th, 2008, 11:32 PM

^^ Looks like developing countries like us will be able to buy a Jumbo Jet at the China price pretty soon. :)

iasif

May 11th, 2008, 11:59 PM

Will GMG still be getting another 743 in the current situation?

Not soon! Their 2nd 747-300 from Air Atlanta Icelandic (Reg # TF-AMJ) was supposed to join GMG's fleet from 1st April and the news release on the website of Air Atlanta Icelandic still says so:
http://www.airatlanta.com/index.aspx?GroupId=37&TabId=41&NewsItemID=169&ModulesTabsId=46

But my information is, that aircraft is going to Saudi Arabian on lease and GMG will probably adjust the advance deposit paid for it with the 747-300 they're already (barely) operating (Reg # TF-AMK)!

iasif

May 12th, 2008, 12:06 AM

^^ Looks like developing countries like us will be able to buy a Jumbo Jet at the China price pretty soon. :)

Until such time China has enough R&D resources to technologically leapfrog the western manufacturers, the Chinese airplane manufacturing industry will go nowhere out of China!

It can do all sorts of "reverse engineering" and probably create even a Chinese B747 or an A380 but that won't get them too far. And over the coming decades, the tube-and-wing design of airplanes will be on its way out, and blended-wing technologies will take over...leaving the Chinese Jumbos look like antiques! Pricewise too, the western aircraft will actually become cheaper as they sort out the outsourcing issues. The B787 is already quite cheap if you compare it with Boeing's own 777s which it will eventually replace!

D_block

May 12th, 2008, 12:40 AM

would it be good idea for biman to provide jhaal muri or fuska as a snack in professional organize way? its cheap,creative and pplz love it/

i think jhaal muri in a bag like this wouldnt be bad idea
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/1141694562_7d198a3ed6_o.jpg

lookz like nobdy had paid attention to my idea:ohno: so i will bump it one more time.

one a side note, china has more than enough technological resource to build a good efiiceny plane. who would though airbus could pull of dat much sale 20 years before> if france can do it, china is more than capable of doing it.

btw u guys forgot chines space shuttle recently orbited the moon.

iasif

May 12th, 2008, 07:34 AM

one a side note, china has more than enough technological resource to build a good efiiceny plane.

Wonder why they haven't done it all this while?

if france can do it, china is more than capable of doing it.

Okay....let's start with China making some French wines, eh? ;)

btw u guys forgot chines space shuttle recently orbited the moon.

Oh really!?! I guess a man will soon land on the moon for the first time and turn the Americans and the Russians all green!! yeaa!!! :banana:

You missed a point, one that I had in bold - China will have to leapfrog western technology of aircraft design & manufacturing to make it big. Merely matching current western technologies won't help much. Price isn't everything, especially when it comes to airplanes!

NYnites99

May 12th, 2008, 07:48 AM

Maybe I could...but will have to check with the recipient operator (!!!) that I got my copy from so it doesn't infringe their non-disclosure issues, if any! :)

would be awesome man if you could get that up. it would def change this forum's rep from just being an "aviation rumors" forum to a more credible one with solid intel. as far as non-disclosure, perhaps you could just ### out the recipient company's name? although all the other info you've leaked so far seems pretty legit, so sorry if i'm asking too much on this one.

AeroGeeK

May 12th, 2008, 01:34 PM

Who says we need a Chinese jumbo?:lol:

iasif

May 12th, 2008, 02:21 PM

would be awesome man if you could get that up. it would def change this forum's rep from just being an "aviation rumors" forum to a more credible one with solid intel. as far as non-disclosure, perhaps you could just ### out the recipient company's name? although all the other info you've leaked so far seems pretty legit, so sorry if i'm asking too much on this one.

I've decided to not put up the actual message up here, but I'll disclose the details instead:

Date of the message: 2nd May, 2008
Recipient: All ICH Members
Subject: Outstanding Balances - Apr-08 P2 Clearance

To all Clearing House Members,

In accordance wiith ICH Regulation 33 you are notified that the following balances due to the Clearing House remain outstanding at close of business on 01 May 08:

Clearance 080402

Member: GMG Airlines; Amount Outstanding: USD 283,611
Member: Air Botswana; Amount Outstanding: USD 212,983
Member: Mahan Air; Amount Outstanding: EUR 180,568

Best Regards,
Mr. Cédric Chrétien
Manager, Financial Services

amar11372

May 12th, 2008, 04:31 PM

^^ :hahaha: LOL we owe the most amount.

AeroGeeK

May 12th, 2008, 05:16 PM

I guess GMG won't place 777 & 787 orders soon!

QGR

May 12th, 2008, 07:39 PM

I guess GMG won't place 777 & 787 orders soon!

I'll be surprised if they can at all buy these aircrafts directly from Boeing in anytime near future.

lookz like nobdy had paid attention to my idea:ohno: so i will bump it one more time.

I am all with you my friend, provided Biman can ensure safety first. I found the thought rather awesome to have jhalmuri and fuska in bumpy F28/DC10 ride and end-up off-shooting the runway by some distance, resting finally in a nearby ditch...:ohno:

iasif

May 13th, 2008, 07:47 AM

I found the thought rather awesome to have jhalmuri and fuska in bumpy F28/DC10 ride and end-up off-shooting the runway by some distance, resting finally in a nearby ditch...:ohno:

You may actually have a smoother landing on the DC-10s than on the newer A310s! For reasons beyond me, Airbus is unable to supply new landing gear shipsets for the A310s, resulting in the grounding of numerous aircraft of the type worldwide. One of Biman's A310 (S2-ADK) is due for one and was recently inspected by Biman and Airbus engineers and subsequently certified by CAAB for extended use. This one-time extension will probably allow the plane to fly just "safely enough" till October 2008. If Biman can't get hold of a new one by then, the aircraft would go grounded for an indefinite period of time!

AeroGeeK

May 13th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Well well, that's surprising because 3 weeks ago Momen said that BG wants to lease more A310's.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/04/25/223263/biman-buying-737-800s-also-seeking-leased-737s-and.html

NYnites99

May 13th, 2008, 08:05 PM

I've decided to not put up the actual message up here, but I'll disclose the details instead:

Date of the message: 2nd May, 2008
Recipient: All ICH Members
Subject: Outstanding Balances - Apr-08 P2 Clearance

To all Clearing House Members,

In accordance wiith ICH Regulation 33 you are notified that the following balances due to the Clearing House remain outstanding at close of business on 01 May 08:

Clearance 080402

Member: GMG Airlines; Amount Outstanding: USD 283,611
Member: Air Botswana; Amount Outstanding: USD 212,983
Member: Mahan Air; Amount Outstanding: EUR 180,568

Best Regards,
Mr. Cédric Chrétien
Manager, Financial Services

wow - thanks iasif, definitely much appreciated.
anyway, not sure if this has been posted here yet but here is an interesting article about GMG's service. apparently the company is not only broke, but grumpy as well...

Style over Substance (and Safety!)
by Farah Ghuznavi
April 4, 2008

Some of you may recall the severe storm that raged through the Dhaka skies a fortnight ago, on a Thursday night. Perhaps you were fortunate enough to be comfortably ensconced in your homes, safe and dry; if so, I wish I could have shared your experience. I, for one, will not be forgetting that night in a hurry. Nor will any of the other wretched souls who were my companions on that flight from Calcutta to Dhaka on that stormy night...

Things started out inauspiciously when a rainstorm began at Kolkata airport shortly after we had checked in. I wondered briefly whether it would delay our flight, but soon after the scheduled time, passengers were called to board the aircraft. I shrugged off a slight sense of unease, assuming that the flight professionals were best placed to judge the safety of the situation. After all, this was not the notoriously unreliable national carrier Biman we were talking about, but a private sector service, that billed itself as efficient and modern - and therefore presumably, very safe!

As far as assumptions went, that proved to be one of the most erroneous I have ever made. That the flight crew were fully aware of the less-than-favourable weather conditions was made evident by the announcement immediately after takeoff that passengers should keep their seatbelts on as some turbulence was expected. The first ten minutes of the half hour flight passed without major incident, but soon thereafter the turbulence became all too evident. Despite that, to my surprise, the stewardesses went ahead and served the meal - only to announce, within the next five minutes, that all tray tables were to be stowed, and food boxes were to be held in people's laps.

Within the next 15 minutes, all hell broke loose. Unusually for the Dhaka-Kolkata sector, we were in a large aircraft; despite that, the force of the winds could be felt within the cabin. As the plane began bucking, battered by the bad weather, the worried passengers tried to remain calm. The flight crew had strapped themselves into the crew seats, and no announcement was immediately forthcoming to calm the strained nerves of those on board.

After it had become evident to all but the clinically insane that we had not hit a bad patch of weather, but were engulfed by a full-fledged storm, the pilot finally announced that due to a "severe storm" raging in Dhaka, the flight was unable to land; therefore, we would maintain a holding pattern until it was safe to land. Given the sound and fury of what we were witnessing from the aircraft windows, it seemed crazy to me that we should consider remaining in the area until the storm died down. But once again, I tried to reassure myself that the pilot knew what he was doing. That is the last time I will ever make that assumption where the staff of this airline are concerned!

The next hour was pure hell. There is no other way to describe it. We held our breath in terror, as the aircraft alternated between appearing to hang suspended, unable to progress against the wind, and pitched sharply in a series of volatile movements that left some passengers begging and screaming for help, while others prayed out loud for deliverance; many began vomiting violently, as their tortured stomachs rebelled against the mid-air roller coaster ride. And in the midst of it all I kept wondering WHY the pilot didn't simply try to fly us out of the storm rather than circle around Dhaka airport while lightning flashed uncomfortably close to our windows...

It is impossible not to think about death at a time like that, and as both my parents confirmed to me afterwards, they too had been wondering if this would be the end. My mother thought that this must have been how the passengers on the ill-fated Titanic had felt, knowing that something had gone badly wrong, but not sure whether they would yet make it out of the crisis alive. In the end, after the longest hour of my life, the pilot bowed to the inevitable and flew us back to Calcutta. If only he had decided to do that 45 minutes earlier! Or better yet, if only GMG had had the common sense not to risk passengers' lives by flying us into a storm in the first place! Interestingly though, Biman had chosen to delay its departure instead of doing so…

Nor did what was at best a serious error of judgement by GMG - and frankly, in my view, the height of irresponsibility - end there. Despite having had half an hour to prepare, we arrived back on the tarmac in Calcutta to find that the ground staff had not even bothered to organise a bus to take us back to the transit lounge. Indeed, as one of the first passengers out of the plane, I was greeted by ground crew asking each other "Are the passengers going to come out?" With an unknowing degree of prescience, I responded "After that flight, if you think that you can keep the passengers aboard the plane, you're mistaken - don't even try it, you would have a riot on your hands!"

A young ground staff member shouted at passengers in a hectoring tone, instructing us to form a queue and follow him. What the queue was for, who knows, because after we had followed him back to the transit lounge, we were quickly abandoned, without being offered any apologies, a word of explanation, or even a drink of water! For the next two and half hours, the airlines in question displayed an unparalleled degree of arrogance in their handling of the shell-shocked people who had disembarked from flight Z5 OO8 expecting a minimum degree of concern and comfort from those who were supposed to be responsible for their welfare.

A group of expatriate school children, accompanied by their teachers, were among the first to make it clear that they did not wish to fly to Dhaka again that night. Many of the passengers shared that view, being unwilling to subject themselves to the possibility of yet another mid-air ordeal. It's hard to describe how frightening the prospect of re-entering that aircraft was. As a reasonably frequent traveller, I have been through my fair share of turbulence, but nothing remotely approaching what we experienced that night. And frankly, if we had not been travelling in a large aircraft, I don't want to think about what the outcome might have been.

To my amazement, not only were the ground crew unwilling to listen to the pleas and concerns of the passengers and make arrangements for them to recover from the ordeal overnight, in fact they did not even bother to enquire after passengers' welfare or provide any refreshment or reassurances until a group of irate passengers made their way back to the immigration hall in order to confront the airline staff. Even then, their handling of the situation was shockingly amateurish; at one point the aggressive manner and rudeness with a female passenger leading other passengers to demand an apology on her behalf.

I will spare you the long story of the arguments that followed, but in addition to the obnoxious behaviour displayed by the ground staff, reassurances reluctantly given were ultimately proved worthless when the airline made it clear that passengers who did not wish to fly that night would not be accommodated in any way. No amount of calm reasoning or impassioned pleading made any difference; nor did the total breakdown of one of the schoolchildren who wept heartrendingly after being informed that she would have to get back on the flight, despite having been to hell and back in the space of the last few hours...

The extent of the airline's determination to avoid their responsibility was evident in the fact that for over half an hour - despite repeated demands to speak to the manager - the member of the staff trio who was actually the manager failed to identify himself until one of the passengers, who was clearly a frequent flyer, disclosed his identity. Clearly that is one man who is proud of his job NOT!

Indeed the airline's unwillingness to take responsibility clearly pervaded the airline from top to bottom. After we had been forced to return to Kolkata, the stewardess said that she hoped we had enjoyed our flight (!) and calmly welcomed us to the city that we had been hoping to leave. Upon being asked by a passenger why they had not apologised to passengers, Stewardess Shikha replied haughtily that "the weather is not our fault, so why should we apologise". It was perhaps unsurprising that once the flight finally landed in Dhaka in the early hours of the morning, and the stewardess once again had the nerve to say that she looked forward to flying with us again, she was greeted with howls of derision and comments like "never" and "we will not be flying with the airline again from irate passengers"!

But the experience in Calcutta was really the height of bad service. To add insult to injury, one of the staff smirkingly informed me, "Madam, of course we will not make alternative arrangements and create any hassle for ourselves" (“oboshshoi amra nijeder kono khoti korbo na”). I pointed out to him that by treating passengers with such callous disregard, his airline would ultimately end up doing themselves quite a lot of damage, not least because passengers like me would do our level best to ensure that we never had to fly with them again!

But clearly, he was unmoved by my statement, perhaps failing to realise that in this one evening this private airline had truly proved itself to be the worst of both worlds - displaying a combination of private sector (misplaced) arrogance compounded by public sector standards of inefficiency! And in a country that has experienced the appalling standards of "service" set by Bangladesh Biman that is really saying something. At least it took Biman a few decades before achieving such a stunning level of deterioration in service provision…

NYnites99

May 13th, 2008, 08:12 PM

this was GMG's response the following week...

Rejoinder
GMG Airlines

We write to clarify to your valued readers a few of the incorrect issues raised in the article 'Style over Substance' on the SWM. At GMG Airlines we take our responsibility seriously. Safety and well being of passengers are of first and foremost concern to us and at no time are we willing or would allow these to be compromised.
The writer of the article is unlikely to be aware that all airlines are subject to stringent rules and regulations and no flying is possible without obtaining clearance from ATC (Air Traffic Control), be it domestic or international flight. Since the incident referred to was between Kolkata and Dhaka, a short (40 minute) international flight clearance was given by ATC of both countries hence the aircraft took off and tried to reach Dhaka. Unfortunately the weather deteriorated rapidly, an 'act of God', which could not be predicted. The pilot with advise of ATC (Dhaka) hovered above the Dhaka sky is nowhere near the time mentioned in the said article. ATC would not permit aircraft to be in any kind of danger.
With regard to subject of providing hotel, yes when deemed necessary GMG Airlines has provided hotel accommodations (Date-03.04.08, Flight no-z5-008) and will do the same in future without hesitation. However on that particular occasion it was not necessary as both Kolkata and Dhaka ATC had advised weather to improve shortly which it did and aircraft and aircraft flew into Dhaka safely.
We thank the writer for her observation of our cabin crew, we take the opportunity to assure all our valued customers that necessary action has been taken so that our crew are better equipped to deal with these once in a while situation.
We take pride and keep no stone unturned to improve in order that we may continue to provide truly 'World Class Service All the Way'.

NYnites99

May 13th, 2008, 08:18 PM

and then finally this was the reply by some ex-pat who reconfirmed GMG's lies and disastrous handling of the situation...

The Truth about GMG
May 9, 2008

This is regarding the article 'Style over Substance' (April 4, 2008) and the response by GMG Airlines in their 'Rejoinder' (April 18, 2008).
Having lived in India, I am accustomed to the shunning of accountability and inability to accept fault that is prevalent in this culture. GMG has committed the most shameful act of this yet, by spewing lies during the incident, and concealing their retreat with more lies to protect their stated claims of being “responsible”.
I had 20 students on that flight and what GMG is saying is completely false. We were caught in the air for 40 minutes with people throwing up and nearly passing out, because it felt like we were on a runaway rollercoaster. We watched lightning out the window, held hands and prayed. The cabin and flight crew were not seen or heard during any of this. Back in Kolkata, the manager was nowhere to be found and we had to demand to approach him. He ran and hid after holding form by not apologising, accepting any blame, or solving the problem before him. He never showed any concern about the passengers, many of whom were very young, away from their parents, in a foreign country -- and crying.
GMG may continue flying, but they should stop lying.

Keri McLeod
Teacher at American International School of Chennai
Chennai, India

shatilislam

May 13th, 2008, 08:29 PM

TIslam

May 13th, 2008, 09:22 PM

NYnites99,

This is not very wise to judge an airlines by the feedback of aggrieved passengers in an exceptional situation. You can find thousands of this type of passenger feedback about any airlines in the world in the net.

However, I am not indifferent to the sufferings of the passengers of that particular flight. However, the rejoinder of GMG airlines explains it all sufficiently.

Whatever happened to the motto, "the customer is always right"? Leaving the technical consideration of flying in/through bad weather aside, how much does it cost the airline to show some concern, empathy, symapthy, and generally good polite manners? I won't even bring up the issue of providing refreshments! Also, why wouldn't the manager identify himself?

We cannot afford to be arrogant or indifferent to our internal customers, let alone the revenue generating external clients!

Years ago when I left Bangladesh, BA couldn't book us on their DAC-LHR but my travel agent managed to book us via CCU. The DAC-CCU leg was on IA. After our arrival, we discovered that BA arranged a large number of passengers from DAC to catch their flight from CCU, thus there was a large crowd that arrived from DAC on BG and IA for the BA flight to LHR. As we arrived at CCU, a BA agent received us and escorted us to a lounge, after we identified our baggage. We were provided a boxed dinner (followed by another meal on board) and they arranged to show us movies using a projector (pre DVD days), to while away the time, which was no more than five or six hours.

Given today's arrogant and sloppy attitude of the airlines, BA didn't have to do any of that. They could have simply left us to our own devices until the flight for LHR arrived from HKG. They probably won't bother today but back in those days BA needed to earn the good faith and credibility from Bangladesh passengers. In the same vein, Singapore Airlines, and Emirates
did the same i.e. went the extra mile, when they commenced service from Dhaka.

GMG ought to bear in mind that DAC-CCU is becoming a crowded sector with multiple carriers offering service, and so, they can continue to provide a sloppy service at the expense of losing market share.

TIslam

May 13th, 2008, 09:25 PM

QGR

May 13th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Whatever happened to the motto, "the customer is always right"? Leaving the technical consideration of flying in/through bad weather aside, how much does it cost the airline to show some concern, empathy, symapthy, and generally good polite manners? I won't even bring up the issue of providing refreshments! Also, why wouldn't the manager identify himself?

We cannot afford to be arrogant or indifferent to our internal customers, let alone the revenue generating external clients!

I fully agree. In service industry, be it an airlines, hotel or whatever, the service provider need to explain and apologize to customer even if the complaint is due to something beyond its control. Being a frequent traveler myself, I can also give number of examples where the airline ensured passenger's satisfaction during undesired situation and earned their loyalty by providing smooth service. I am sure that the writer of the concerned article along with the other passengers of that flight was more disturbed by 'act of men' (poor service or non-cooperation of ground/flight crews) rather than the 'act of god' (storm) that GMG in their rejoinder tried to point finger to.

Unfortunately such number of complaints is increasing alarmingly for GMG in both domestic and international flights. This is not a good sign for an airline that is still at its infancy as far as international operation is concerned. I, like many of you, would love to see GMG as a worthwhile competitor of Biman so that it can force Biman to improve its safety standard and service and in the process can establish itself as decent private airlines (something close to 9W). But it seems a far fetched dream at the moment.

iasif

May 13th, 2008, 10:20 PM

Style over Substance (and Safety!)
by Farah Ghuznavi
April 4, 2008

Some of you may recall the severe storm...such a stunning level of deterioration in service provision…

It is sickeningly apalling too see them talking about ordering airplanes worth about a billion dollars when their reputation in the international airline community and to the passengers have gone down the gutters! I thought I'd never disclose this on a public forum as it is ethically disturbing for me to go up against any specific operator, but take this to swallow:

1. On 24th March, 2008 the airworthiness certificate of one of GMG's MD-80s (if I'm not mistaken it was S2-ADM) had expired, and they continued to operate that plane on scheduled pax flights on that and the following day until COSCAP-SA found out about it and had CAAB to ground the plane. Surely, CAAB was at fault and they were bought up, but when an operator does something like this, you gotta brace yourself before you take a flight with them!

2. The 747-300 and the 737-800 that GMG is operating was not listed in their Air Operator Certificate until the second week of April , which was fixed after 6th April, 2008 again upon COSCAP-SA's directives! What does this mean for the layman? It means that if an aircraft is not listed in an operator's AOC and is being used on scheduled flights, the pax will get nothing as insurance if the plane ever gets involved in an incident (God forbids!).

These two along with GMG's previous record of utilizing cockpit crew beyond permitted hour limits (discussed in this forum before as I was confronted by our pro-GMG friend who later gave in!) are all literally criminal offenses as they are explicit violations of ICAO's mandated rules as set forth in their Annexes 1-18.

TIslam

May 13th, 2008, 10:29 PM

It is sickeningly apalling too see them talking about ordering airplanes worth about a billion dollars when their reputation in the international airline community and to the passengers have gone down the gutters! I thought I'd never disclose this on a public forum as it is ethically disturbing for me to go up against any specific operator, but take this to swallow:

1. On 24th March, 2008 the airworthiness certificate of one of GMG's MD-80s (if I'm not mistaken it was S2-ADM) had expired, and they continued to operate that plane on scheduled pax flights on that and the following day until COSCAP-SA found out about it and had CAAB to ground the plane. Surely, CAAB was at fault and they were bought up, but when an operator does something like this, you gotta brace yourself before you take a flight with them!

2. The 747-300 and the 737-800 that GMG is operating was not listed in their Air Operator Certificate until the second week of April , which was fixed after 6th April, 2008 again upon COSCAP-SA's directives! What does this mean for the layman? It means that if an aircraft is not listed in an operator's AOC and is being used on scheduled flights, the pax will get nothing as insurance if the plane ever gets involved in an incident (God forbids!).

These two along with GMG's previous record of utilizing cockpit crew beyond permitted hour limits (discussed in this forum before as I was confronted by our pro-GMG friend who later gave in!) are all literally criminal offenses as they are explicit violations of ICAO's mandated rules as set forth in their Annexes 1-18.

That's it. GMG has lost my support and cheering. It is no longer the new kid on the block. Half hearted endeavors never translate to sucess. Either shape up or ship out.

iasif

May 13th, 2008, 10:46 PM

That's it. GMG has lost my support and cheering. It is no longer the new kid on the block. Half hearted endeavors never translate to sucess. Either shape up or ship out.

I have equally shocking facts in hand about Best Air. Like I said earlier, I didn't want to go up against any operator but I guess I'll soon take GMG and Best Air for a turbulent ride once I finish compiling all the facts into another article!

QGR

May 13th, 2008, 10:51 PM

1. On 24th March, 2008 the airworthiness certificate of one of GMG's MD-80s (if I'm not mistaken it was S2-ADM) had expired, and they continued to operate that plane on scheduled pax flights on that and the following day until COSCAP-SA found out about it and had CAAB to ground the plane. Surely, CAAB was at fault and they were bought up, but when an operator does something like this, you gotta brace yourself before you take a flight with them!

So it was Z5 then! I always knew it.

dopekhor

May 13th, 2008, 10:52 PM

QGR

May 13th, 2008, 11:06 PM

I have equally shocking facts in hand about Best Air. Like I said earlier, I didn't want to go up against any operator but I guess I'll soon take GMG and Best Air for a turbulent ride once I finish compiling all the facts into another article!

What's the latest on 5Q? Aren't they planning to add anymore aircraft in their fleet with the old bird form Phuket Air? They also announced an ambitious plan following Z5!!! Unless I am not much mistaken, they had a couple of vintage AN24 as shrimp transporters...are they still operational?

AeroGeeK

May 13th, 2008, 11:12 PM

It seems GMG's sky is shrinking rapidly!

iasif

May 13th, 2008, 11:28 PM

What's the latest on 5Q? Aren't they planning to add anymore aircraft in their fleet with the old bird form Phuket Air? They also announced an ambitious plan following Z5!!! Unless I am not much mistaken, they had a couple of vintage AN24 as shrimp transporters...are they still operational?

They didn't use Antonovs but the HS-748s for shrimp fries transportation between Cox's Bazar and Jessore. Two such planes were lying at CXB for a long while and one of them was later sent to Sudan on lease to the UN and crashed within months!

So you wanna know about Best Air...eh? I'm in the mood to spill beans tonight!

COSCAP-SA on its audit in late-March revealed as many as 8 irregularities on their part. I'll only sum up the most interesting ones here!

1. They don't have any check pilot in the airline and hence no check pilot programme, which is a mandatory requirement before any CAA approves the Operations Manual of any operator! No check pilot programme means the pilots who are flying the aircraft will not be subjected to the periodical tests (usually once every 6 months) to ensure they are following the standard operating procedures at all times. It is generally accepted worldwide that pilots will deviate from the SOP as they keep flying (partly due to complacency and partly due to over-confidence) and the check pilot programme ensures that they are brought back to the line of SOP on a periodical check basis. An airline should typically have at least 2 check pilots so that even the check pilots can check each other! In case of a pure ACMI lease of an aircraft, the lessor should provide the check pilot programme which is not the case with Best Air. One very recent example of pilots deviating from the SOPs is the Biman A310 incident where the pilot took the taxiway exit he wasn't supposed to, leading the plane into the grass at ZIA!

2. Best Air doesn't even have any flight attendant's training programme, which is again a mandatory requirement as laid out by ICAO in its Annexes. No FA training prgramme means the FA's are not trained on type of planes in the fleet (in this case the 737-200) and are not trained about their responsibilities as FA's. So, if you're on Best Air's 737 and the plane belly lands/ditches on water (God forbid!), you may expect the FA's to be the first people to jump off the plane comfortably leaving you behind!

3. This is the very BEST one: the insurance document of the aircraft does not have any year of agreement and does not have any third-party information mentioned therein! Now, you can't even have a car licensed without at least a third-party insurance...!

All of these issues also goes to prove the incompetency at CAAB I've so long been screaming out about! With all these discrepancies and non-compliance in place, it was criminal on CAAB's part to approve the Operations Manual of Best Air, just as it is criminal to let GMG go unscratched after all that they've been upto!

amar11372

May 13th, 2008, 11:55 PM

IMF against govt guarantee for Biman's $1.3b Boeing purchase

Shakhawat Hossain

The IMF said Tuesday the government should not act as a guarantor to Biman's purchase of eight aircraft worth US$ 1.3 billion from Boeing, saying it will undermine the country's 'prudent fiscal management'.

The International Monetary Fund made the suggestion while focusing on the government role to limit supplier's credits, non concessionary loans, sovereign guarantees and any other contingent liabilities in a latest paper.

"A government guarantee for the proposed purchase of aircraft by Biman airlines for $1.3 billion would be inconsistent with prudent fiscal management," said a senior government official quoting the IMF paper.

Shouldering Biman's liabilities for purchasing new aircraft will not be a wise decision for the government as it will increase fiscal risk, the IMF said.

The airline, according to the Washington-based multilateral agency, has a 'well-established track record" of financial losses and mismanagement.

"Incurring such liabilities would be an unwise fiscal risk and inconsistent with the government's own plans on public resources and budget management," it said.

The ailing national carrier Biman last month signed a deal with Boeing to buy eight new aircraft from the Seattle-based aviation giant as part of a fleet overhaul plan to turn the airline profitable.

Biman, which became a company last June, would procure four Boeing 777-300ER and four 787-8 aircraft to be delivered between 2013 and 2017 as it aims to emerge as leading airline in the region.

The purchase will be financed by the US Export-Import Bank and a syndicate of local banks, the Biman has said.

Biman's managing director Abdul Momen brushed aside the IMF's observation on the deal, saying his company "will only require government guarantee if the financing banks needed it."

"The Export-Import Bank will determine such government guarantee requirement after examining Biman's balance sheet," he said.

The eight aircraft will bring Biman Bangladesh Airline Ltd's fleet strength to 20.

This is for the first time in Biman's 35-year history that the national flag carrier is purchasing aircraft directly from the manufacturer and it is doing the current purchase transparently, said a senior Biman official.

Previous aircraft purchase deals were criticised by many for being 'shady'.

In the last several years, the government took a number of initiatives including seeking strategic partner for the Biman to stop its losses.

Biman posted a record loss of more than $120 million in 2006-07 fiscal and nearly $100 million in the last fiscal year due to soaring global fuel prices and higher-than-expected maintenance costs.

Biman has already laid off 2,000 workers, plans to axe 2,000 more posts and has suspended eight loss-making international flights and four domestic routes to cut bank on its annual losses.

The national carrier started its journey in 1972 with a vintage Dakota DC-3 aircraft, less than a month after Bangladesh won independence.

Its current fleet includes five 20-year-old DC-10 planes which officials say must be replaced within a few years.

FE (http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=33537)

TIslam

May 14th, 2008, 03:19 AM

They didn't use Antonovs but the HS-748s for shrimp fries transportation between Cox's Bazar and Jessore. Two such planes were lying at CXB for a long while and one of them was later sent to Sudan on lease to the UN and crashed within months!

So you wanna know about Best Air...eh? I'm in the mood to spill beans tonight!

COSCAP-SA on its audit in late-March revealed as many as 8 irregularities on their part. I'll only sum up the most interesting ones here!

1. They don't have any check pilot in the airline and hence no check pilot programme, which is a mandatory requirement before any CAA approves the Operations Manual of any operator! No check pilot programme means the pilots who are flying the aircraft will not be subjected to the periodical tests (usually once every 6 months) to ensure they are following the standard operating procedures at all times. It is generally accepted worldwide that pilots will deviate from the SOP as they keep flying (partly due to complacency and partly due to over-confidence) and the check pilot programme ensures that they are brought back to the line of SOP on a periodical check basis. An airline should typically have at least 2 check pilots so that even the check pilots can check each other! In case of a pure ACMI lease of an aircraft, the lessor should provide the check pilot programme which is not the case with Best Air. One very recent example of pilots deviating from the SOPs is the Biman A310 incident where the pilot took the taxiway exit he wasn't supposed to, leading the plane into the grass at ZIA!

2. Best Air doesn't even have any flight attendant's training programme, which is again a mandatory requirement as laid out by ICAO in its Annexes. No FA training prgramme means the FA's are not trained on type of planes in the fleet (in this case the 737-200) and are not trained about their responsibilities as FA's. So, if you're on Best Air's 737 and the plane belly lands/ditches on water (God forbid!), you may expect the FA's to be the first people to jump off the plane comfortably leaving you behind!

3. This is the very BEST one: the insurance document of the aircraft does not have any year of agreement and does not have any third-party information mentioned therein! Now, you can't even have a car licensed without at least a third-party insurance...!

All of these issues also goes to prove the incompetency at CAAB I've so long been screaming out about! With all these discrepancies and non-compliance in place, it was criminal on CAAB's part to approve the Operations Manual of Best Air, just as it is criminal to let GMG go unscratched after all that they've been upto!

I hope you shall be equally unforgiving and mention facts presented here, in your article deploring the way these airlines as well CAAB are conducting business. Hope to see it soon.

dopekhor

May 14th, 2008, 03:37 AM

I hope you shall be equally unforgiving and mention facts presented here, in your article deploring the way these airlines as well CAAB are conducting business. Hope to see it soon.
wonder why snoq hasnt said anything about this nor did the journalists who say that there is a latent pressure on them

TIslam

May 14th, 2008, 06:06 AM

You may actually have a smoother landing on the DC-10s than on the newer A310s! For reasons beyond me, Airbus is unable to supply new landing gear shipsets for the A310s, resulting in the grounding of numerous aircraft of the type worldwide. One of Biman's A310 (S2-ADK) is due for one and was recently inspected by Biman and Airbus engineers and subsequently certified by CAAB for extended use. This one-time extension will probably allow the plane to fly just "safely enough" till October 2008. If Biman can't get hold of a new one by then, the aircraft would go grounded for an indefinite period of time!

Is Airbus the only supplier? I thought there are oem suppliers like Goodrich.

manbil777

May 14th, 2008, 06:48 AM

I believe Messier-Dowty (earlier known as Messier-Bugatti) is the landing gear manufacturer for all A310 series.

BF Goodrich makes landing gear for Boeing and MDD aircraft (among others).

link (http://www.lgd.goodrich.com/services/cap.shtml)

I went to Mojave aircraft storage one time. Thousands of surplused aircraft sitting and baking in the sun (including a few A310's). There's the source for refurbished parts.

list of aircraft boneyards (http://www.johnweeks.com/boneyard/#SITEA)

There may be a few overhaulers and sellers for refurbished landing gear in Europe. Will they 'have' to get the landing gear from Airbus?

iasif

May 14th, 2008, 07:15 AM

iasif

May 14th, 2008, 07:36 AM

I believe Messier-Dowty (earlier known as Messier-Bugatti) is the landing gear manufacturer for all A310 series.

There may be a few overhaulers and sellers for refurbished landing gear in Europe. Will they 'have' to get the landing gear from Airbus?

Messier it is...you are right. By getting it from Airbus, I meant getting a brand-new one from Messier actually. Biman as a customer requested Airbus and they said Messier can't supply anytime soon (for reasons I don't know). In its latest tender, BG is asking for a new or an overhauled MLG for S2-ADK from approved vendors but not too sure if they're going to find one.

tamim75

May 14th, 2008, 09:25 AM

seems like newspaper reporters have been followin imran's articles to prepare their reports! the talks about pcn strengths and atc system are just what he wrote in his recent articles...

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/05/14/news0861.htm

skystar320

May 14th, 2008, 09:55 AM

So what can peolpe tell about Royal Bengal Airlines - them seem alright>?

iasif

May 14th, 2008, 10:33 AM

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/05/14/news0861.htm

I'll only give my remarks here on the last paragrapgh of the report which contains a bunch of idiotic BS...

1. The radar repair works has been a continuous process at ZIA for what seems like aeons now!

2. He said it'll be fixed in about 2 weeks. What he didn't say is it'll positively go out of order again in less than another 2 weeks.

3. The new radar purchase decision has been hanging between Planning Commission and CAAB for over a decade now, at the deliberation of CAAB and ministry officials. CAAB is least interested in actually getting a new one for taht'd take away one sweet money-making opportunity!

4. He contradicted himself by saying that the Danes will install and commission the new radar. In that proposal which is over 5 years old, the Danish govt. offered to appoint a Danish company to install and commission a new radar using grants given by the Danish government. Why did he then mention about purchasing a new radar for which he has supposedly sent a proposal to the Planning Ministry?

5. He also said that despite the fact that the PCN at ZIA is 59, aircraft with ACN upto 66 may operate (!!) and that so far nothing has happened because of the weaker pavement!!!

Now, he would surely want the heaviest of the planes to use his airport, for that would allow repair works as frequently improving his and his fellow mates' cash flows! And by saying nothing has happened for it so far, he has successfully made me feel like taking a big puke!

iasif

May 14th, 2008, 05:11 PM

So what can peolpe tell about Royal Bengal Airlines - them seem alright>?

United and RBA has not yet been subjected to a comprehensive operational audit, and so I don't have much information on them yet. Come July, they should get checked and I'll probably be able to dig some info for you folks! :)

AeroGeeK

May 14th, 2008, 09:51 PM

One thing I don't understand is if A310 gears are unavailable then why is Biman looking for more A310's? And why does Biman need more A310's now?

iasif

May 14th, 2008, 11:09 PM

One thing I don't understand is if A310 gears are unavailable then why is Biman looking for more A310's? And why does Biman need more A310's now?

BG isn't looking for A310s any more. They're letting S2-ADH go back to its lessor, and some A310 pilots will begin to get trained for the 737NG soon. The ones BG already owns (S2-ADF/-ADK) will stay on for a while, until replaced by the leased interim fleet planned or maybe even till the new orders get delivered!

AeroGeeK

May 15th, 2008, 12:09 AM

BG isn't looking for A310s any more. They're letting S2-ADH go back to its lessor, and some A310 pilots will begin to get trained for the 737NG soon. The ones BG already owns (S2-ADF/-ADK) will stay on for a while, until replaced by the leased interim fleet planned or maybe even till the new orders get delivered!

That's what I thought. But couldn't dismiss flightglobal's report which quotes Momen in the link below.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/04/25/223263/biman-buying-737-800s-also-seeking-leased-737s-and.html

clearsky

May 15th, 2008, 12:58 AM

5. He also said that despite the fact that the PCN at ZIA is 59, aircraft with ACN upto 66 may operate (!!) and that so far nothing has happened because of the weaker pavement!!!

This is an important point because as far as I know Emirates is planning to send one of their 560T A380s to DAC sometimes in the near future. So, CAAB doesn't have any excuse to sit on their lazy A@@ thinking that the airport is not capable of handling heavy aircraft. If it is not, then they should figure out a way to upgrade the airport. It's about time the airport receives a complete face lift.

Theft of approach light has been a persistent one. The theft of such important parts of the runway goes back at least a decade and it's a problem! They need to put up fence, deploy security personnel 24/7 and/or relocate the destitute people living in the close proximity of the runway who are thought to be involved in the theft. If they can't solve such an obvious and easy problem, then their professionalism will be in question.

TIslam

May 15th, 2008, 02:10 AM

then their professionalism will be in question.

:lol: As if they have any! Bunch of misfit idiots who are thieves, that's what is CAAB.

AkiZV6 (Akbar)

May 15th, 2008, 03:29 AM

TIslam

May 15th, 2008, 04:45 AM

Hello everybody! I know i have been away for a long time and I am back. I am really surpirsed about some of these facts about Z5. Im going to talk to the MD about this. He has already read the article in the magazine I heard him talking about it some time ago.

Welcome back, Akbar.

You should tell the MD that the way they have been going about running the airline can easily be turned into a book titled, "How Not To Run An Airline". The rejoinder in the press against passenger complaints wasn't good PR because it makes them appear callous and smug. They should instead, apologise and apologise profusely, not for the act of God which is indeed beyond their control, but for the complete arrogant and indifferent attitude/behavior of their staff. Furthermore, you should tell him that if they want success in the airline business, they should instill absolute politeness in all their employees. People may forget (what) service they didn't get (as expected) but they rarely forget bad behavior.
:)

iasif

May 15th, 2008, 06:35 AM

Theft of approach light has been a persistent one. The theft of such important parts of the runway goes back at least a decade and it's a problem! They need to put up fence, deploy security personnel 24/7 and/or relocate the destitute people living in the close proximity of the runway who are thought to be involved in the theft. If they can't solve such an obvious and easy problem, then their professionalism will be in question.

Errr...dude...they actually steal the lights themselves, so putting up fences won't work (they've done that already) and therefore it isn't fair to blame the destitute people living in the surrounding areas!

The lights get stolen by CAAB people, then get sold to vendors who regularly re-sell them back to CAAB! Philips, the actual manufacturer of most of the lighting equipment had asked CAAB to buy directly from them at all times under an exclusive agreement allowing for special pricing, but CAAB turned them down saying it was against the government procurement rules (!!) and continues to buy from several other vendors who sells the stolen lights CAAB has already paid for at least once!

Do you smell it yet...? ;)

TIslam

May 15th, 2008, 03:50 PM

Errr...dude...they actually steal the lights themselves, so putting up fences won't work (they've done that already) and therefore it isn't fair to blame the destitute people living in the surrounding areas!

The lights get stolen by CAAB people, then get sold to vendors who regularly re-sell them back to CAAB! Philips, the actual manufacturer of most of the lighting equipment had asked CAAB to buy directly from them at all times under an exclusive agreement allowing for special pricing, but CAAB turned them down saying it was against the government procurement rules (!!) and continues to buy from several other vendors who sells the stolen lights CAAB has already paid for at least once!

Do you smell it yet...? ;)

Lovely! What a swell business to be in. Live near ZIA anybody? You could do a roaring business with CAAB! It is simply AAAmazing! This must have been going on for years perhaps decades, and no one other than CAAB officials are wiser, until somebody like Imran comes along who is willing to spill the beans. That organization is so despicable!

mash_bfa

May 15th, 2008, 05:26 PM

hi everyone, im back after a sleepless weeklong stay at the pan pacific sonargaon. i was an organizer of the '15th All Asian Inter-Varsity Debate Championship". Anyway, can someone tell me wheres the best place to post on the debate tournament on this forum? for your information, The All Asians is the 3rd in the world and largest debate competition in the Asia which luckily for the first time was held in south Asia by Bangladesh, organized by North South University Debate Club.
Anyway, gud to see some informative posts on the aviation forum. just spent the last hour updating myself on what i missed.

cheers
mash

coldfire_bd

May 15th, 2008, 05:42 PM

BG isn't looking for A310s any more. They're letting S2-ADH go back to its lessor, and some A310 pilots will begin to get trained for the 737NG soon. The ones BG already owns (S2-ADF/-ADK) will stay on for a while, until replaced by the leased interim fleet planned or maybe even till the new orders get delivered!

Hi Imran, do you know where BG will be sending crew for the 737 training? I imagine looking for NG drivers will be on the cards too if they've committed to type rating training?

amar11372

May 15th, 2008, 06:33 PM

iasif

May 15th, 2008, 07:17 PM

Hi Imran, do you know where BG will be sending crew for the 737 training? I imagine looking for NG drivers will be on the cards too if they've committed to type rating training?

I don't know about their exact plan yet, though I'll surely find out soon. If I were to decide for BG, I would send the bunch to Mumbai for training with Alteon's centre there which they had primarily set up for Air India (following their mega order for the 777s, 787s, and 737NGs). Apart from the proximity issue, it can also save Biman a lot of money than to have the crew trained in the Europe or the US.

amar11372

May 15th, 2008, 09:39 PM

Best Air launches international operation May 25
Star Business Report

Local private airline Best Air is set to launch its international operation on May 25 through its first flight to Bangkok, its chairman said yesterday.

“We had plans to start much earlier. But we have had to wait for meeting some regulatory requirements. Now we are ready to fly,” M Haider Uzzaman, chairman of Best Air, told a press conference in Dhaka.

The Best Air, majority stake of which is controlled by Kuwait based Aqeeq Aviation Holding, is to fly on an international route after having operated on the domestic routes, with its single Boeing 737-200, for five months.

The airline sources, however, said another 118 seater Boeing 737-200 aircraft would be added to its fleet soon.

According the Best Air, it would operate four flights a week on the Dhaka-Bangkok-Dhaka route and will charge $ 240 as fare, which will not include tax.

Entry of Best Air on the Dhaka-Bangkok route will intensify competition as four other airlines-Thai Airways, Biman Bangladesh Airlines, GMG Airlines and DRUK Air are already operating on the same route.

About 9,000 passengers on average fly along the route each month, said Haider, adding, we think there are passengers to be have.

Operators said Bangladeshis health service seekers and businessmen are the main passengers on the Dhaka to Bangkok route with Thai Airways controlling over two-third of the total traffic.

Biman and GMG, two domestic contenders, carry about 20 percent of the overall traffic on the route, industry sources said.

“We have received governments approval to fly to seven international destinations in six countries. We hope to start flights to other destinations within July,” chairman of Best Air said.

The airline, as part of its move to attract passengers, has also planned to offer some incentives to passengers, such as free health check up at a Thai hospital.

The Best Air will be the third domestic carrier to fly on the international route after Biman and GMG Airline.

iasif

May 15th, 2008, 09:55 PM

dopekhor

May 15th, 2008, 10:46 PM

instead of going it on their own these companies should find foreign strategic partners

iasif

May 16th, 2008, 12:53 AM

Lovely! What a swell business to be in. Live near ZIA anybody? You could do a roaring business with CAAB! It is simply AAAmazing! This must have been going on for years perhaps decades, and no one other than CAAB officials are wiser, until somebody like Imran comes along who is willing to spill the beans. That organization is so despicable!

The lighting issue reminded me of something else I hadn't mentioned here before...take a careful look at the lights in the pic below:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/BAF-F7-01.jpg

These lights are for Rwy14 and are on the ovverrun area for aircraft departing from Rwy32. The lights at the forefront are encapsulated inside grilled boxes made of steel which are firmly rooted into the concrete. However, some at the back are without any such boxes, which are meant to be there to prevent stealing (mind you, these are inside the airport perimeter)!

Now take this: lights on the overrun area are built in a 'breakable' manner, so that if an aircraft ever overshoots the runway, the lights would get easily broken and rolled off ensuing minimal damage to the airplane. That was just what happened probably a couple of years back when an EK A340 overran the runway on takeoff from Johannesburg and its tyres rolled over a few rows of lights before the aircraft went airborne, only to get back for a safe landing. With the grilled boxes around the lights which are firmly pinned to the ground, if an aircraft ever overshoots while departing from Rwy32 at ZIA, these steel boxes will invariably cause severe damage to the aircraft's main landing gears and the undercarriage. Such an impact, to a plane full of fuel, could cause a catastrophic result that could otherwise be avoided if the lights were installed in just the way they were meant to...without those grilled metal boxes which practically serves no purpose anyways!

TIslam

May 16th, 2008, 02:00 AM

The lighting issue reminded me of something else I hadn't mentioned here before...take a careful look at the lights in the pic below:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/BAF-F7-01.jpg

These lights are for Rwy14 and are on the ovverrun area for aircraft departing from Rwy32. The lights at the forefront are encapsulated inside grilled boxes made of steel which are firmly rooted into the concrete. However, some at the back are without any such boxes, which are meant to be there to prevent stealing (mind you, these are inside the airport perimeter)!

Now take this: lights on the overrun area are built in a 'breakable' manner, so that if an aircraft ever overshoots the runway, the lights would get easily broken and rolled off ensuing minimal damage to the airplane. That was just what happened probably a couple of years back when an EK A340 overran the runway on takeoff from Johannesburg and its tyres rolled over a few rows of lights before the aircraft went airborne, only to get back for a safe landing. With the grilled boxes around the lights which are firmly pinned to the ground, if an aircraft ever overshoots while departing from Rwy32 at ZIA, these steel boxes will invariably cause severe damage to the aircraft's main landing gears and the undercarriage. Such an impact, to a plane full of fuel, could cause a catastrophic result that could otherwise be avoided if the lights were installed in just the way they were meant to...without those grilled metal boxes which practically serves no purpose anyways!

Isn't there any set standard(s) for this? Or a GAAP (to use the accounting terminology -- generally accepted accounting principles)?

snoq

May 16th, 2008, 05:33 AM

I don't know about their exact plan yet, though I'll surely find out soon. If I were to decide for BG, I would send the bunch to Mumbai for training with Alteon's centre there which they had primarily set up for Air India (following their mega order for the 777s, 787s, and 737NGs). Apart from the proximity issue, it can also save Biman a lot of money than to have the crew trained in the Europe or the US.

There are other training centers in Dubai, Qatar and in China. Kingfisher and other indian airlines train their pilots at Emirates-CAE Flight Training (ECFT).

http://www.cae.com/cts/trainingCentres/Dubai/pilotTrain.shtml

http://www.cae.com/cts/PDF/civil_map12-11-07.pdf

http://www.qatarav.com/training.html

http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/airtravel/2007/08/27/air-china-to-have-massive-pilot-training-center/

iasif

May 16th, 2008, 12:04 PM

There are other training centers in Dubai, Qatar and in China. Kingfisher and other indian airlines train their pilots at Emirates-CAE Flight Training (ECFT).

Kingfisher is an all-Airbus operator, and so are the 'others' you probably meant (IndiGo, et al.). B737NG operators in India (Jet Airways, SpiceJet) uses Alteon's centre at Mumbai as much as possible, along with Air India. Alteon, by the way, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Boeing.

snoq

May 16th, 2008, 05:35 PM

Kingfisher is an all-Airbus operator, and so are the 'others' you probably meant (IndiGo, et al.). B737NG operators in India (Jet Airways, SpiceJet) uses Alteon's centre at Mumbai as much as possible, along with Air India. Alteon, by the way, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Boeing.

SpiceJet was or is using ECFT.

http://www.ameinfo.com/72353.html

Do you know how much 737NG traning in Alteon cost?

iasif

May 16th, 2008, 06:10 PM

SpiceJet was or is using ECFT.

http://www.ameinfo.com/72353.html

Do you know how much 737NG traning in Alteon cost?

In 2005, Alteon wasn't in existence in Mumbai and even 9W used several centres including ECFT. Since Alteon opened, B737NG operators have begun using it as much as the centre can deliver after fulfilling Air India, the customer for which the centre was put up at the first place.

I don't have Alteon's prices readily available with me, but I trust since AI is using it, it can't be outrageous!

bd-ottawa

May 17th, 2008, 02:11 AM

In 2005, Alteon wasn't in existence in Mumbai and even 9W used several centres including ECFT. Since Alteon opened, B737NG operators have begun using it as much as the centre can deliver after fulfilling Air India, the customer for which the centre was put up at the first place.

I don't have Alteon's prices readily available with me, but I trust since AI is using it, it can't be outrageous!

Since you guys are talking about training, I will make a few comments.

Alteon does not have any operational simulators in India as of today. They are planning to set up a training center in partnership with Indian airline to conduct training for 777/787/737NG platforms. According to the original schedule, the 737NG simulator supposed to be operational by early 2007. However, they haven’t even start construction yet. Currently all the Indian 737NG operators are doing most of thier simulator training outside India [Moslty Dubai(CAE) & Singapore(Alteon)] with the exception of Jet airways.

By 2014, Indian carriers will operate 163 737NGs. That will generate enough demand to fill at least five simulators, excluding MPL training requirement for ab-initio pilots. So far there are only four 737NG simulators planned for the Indian market. [AirIndia/Aleton 1, Jet airways 2, CAE 1). There will be no capacity left to train foreign pilots in India, atleast in the 737NG platform. Also poor connectivity between Bangladesh and India is a major logistical problem. Dubai/Singapore has a much better connectivity with Dhaka than Bombay/Bangalore.

We just broke ground for our(CAE’s) first Indian training center in Bangalore, one year behind schedule. Hopefully, our first 737NG simulator in Bangalore will become operational within a year or so. That will take off some pressure from our Dubai simulators, which have been running at full capacity.

As for the price, you can buy initial ($20-30K per pilot) or recurrent ($5-10K per pilot) training packages. Usually airlines just purchase simulator time ( $250-$700) instead of individual training packages.

By the way, we (CAE) do all simulator training for GMG (Dash8, MD-80) at our training facility in Madrid. I do not know where united/RBA/Best air does their simulator training. I will direct our sales office in Singapore to contact United/RBA. We just packed up of our last 737-200 in Santiago so I guess we do not have any thing to offer to Best air at this point.

Cheers….

TIslam

May 17th, 2008, 02:44 AM

Also poor connectivity between Bangladesh and India is a major logistical problem. Dubai/Singapore has a much better connectivity with Dhaka than Bombay/Bangalore.

While that is true, as there are multiple flights b/w DAC-CCU/day, with multiple CCU-BOM/day, that should not be a big problem. Biman used to send its 707 crew all the way to the US for SIM training. So that is a 100% improvement. If politics and under-handed deals no longer prevail, I'm sure Biman shall pick the vendor that provides the best price performance ratio.

:)

snoq

May 17th, 2008, 03:07 AM

Since you guys are talking about training, I will make a few comments.

Alteon does not have any operational simulators in India as of today. They are planning to set up a training center in partnership with Indian airline to conduct training for 777/787/737NG platforms. According to the original schedule, the 737NG simulator supposed to be operational by early 2007. However, they haven’t even start construction yet. Currently all the Indian 737NG operators are doing most of thier simulator training outside India [Moslty Dubai(CAE) & Singapore(Alteon)] with the exception of Jet airways.

By 2014, Indian carriers will operate 163 737NGs. That will generate enough demand to fill at least five simulators, excluding MPL training requirement for ab-initio pilots. So far there are only four 737NG simulators planned for the Indian market. [AirIndia/Aleton 1, Jet airways 2, CAE 1). There will be no capacity left to train foreign pilots in India, atleast in the 737NG platform. Also poor connectivity between Bangladesh and India is a major logistical problem. Dubai/Singapore has a much better connectivity with Dhaka than Bombay/Bangalore.

We just broke ground for our(CAE’s) first Indian training center in Bangalore, one year behind schedule. Hopefully, our first 737NG simulator in Bangalore will become operational within a year or so. That will take off some pressure from our Dubai simulators, which have been running at full capacity.

As for the price, you can buy initial ($20-30K per pilot) or recurrent ($5-10K per pilot) training packages. Usually airlines just purchase simulator time ( $250-$700) instead of individual training packages.

By the way, we (CAE) do all simulator training for GMG (Dash8, MD-80) at our training facility in Madrid. I do not know where united/RBA/Best air does their simulator training. I will direct our sales office in Singapore to contact United/RBA. We just packed up of our last 737-200 in Santiago so I guess we do not have any thing to offer to Best air at this point.

Cheers….

Thanks for updated information and prospective. Good to know correct information that indian airlines still send pilots elsewhere for simulator training.

At least what I have seen listed price for Qatar center, price/cost wise its not much different doing training in Dubai, Qatar or in Mumbai. But in logistical prospective mature training centers does have benefits. Good luck with your business probe in Bangladesh.

bd-ottawa

May 17th, 2008, 03:48 AM

Just a note, the ($200-$700) price is per hour simulator rental price.

AeroGeeK

May 17th, 2008, 06:08 PM

By the way, we (CAE) do all simulator training for GMG (Dash8, MD-80) at our training facility in Madrid. I do not know where united/RBA/Best air does their simulator training. I will direct our sales office in Singapore to contact United/RBA. We just packed up of our last 737-200 in Santiago so I guess we do not have any thing to offer to Best air at this point.

You need sim training for Dash 8 too???!!!

TIslam

May 17th, 2008, 06:58 PM

You need sim training for Dash 8 too???!!!

Why not? You can get simulator training for just about any kind of aircraft, fixed wing or rotary. Simulator training is less costly than training a pilot on the real thing. Thing about it, aircraft time, fuel, personnel ...

amar11372

May 17th, 2008, 09:38 PM

QGR

May 17th, 2008, 10:06 PM

Private airlines up fares on Dhaka-Ctg route
Unb, Dhaka

All the domestic airlines, except Biman Bangladesh Airlines Ltd, have abruptly raised their fares on Dhaka-Chittagong route, saying that the fuel price, taxes and surcharges have increased significantly.

Their new fares came to effect from Friday even though passengers had no idea about the enhanced fare.

The carriers have sent a directive to their officers and sales agents in this connection. “We've re-fixed our ticket fare, including all taxes and surcharges, at Tk 4,995,” Best Air Chairman M Haider Uzzaman told the news agency yesterday.

He said the Padma Oil has increased the fuel price used by aircraft up to 15 percent.

The previous airfares of all the domestic airlines on their Dhaka-Chittagong route were more or less below Tk 4,000, including all the surcharges and taxes.

Sources in GMG Airlines, United Airways and Royal Bengal also confirmed that they have increased the fares on this important route.

According to the sources, high officials of the four private carriers at a meeting a couple of days back decided to re-fix the fare at Tk 4,995, including all the taxes and charges.

Talking to the news agency, MA Momen, managing director and chief executive officer of national flag carrier Biman Bangladesh, said they have not yet taken any decision on enhancing fare on the route.

Experts said the growing trend of taking flights by the passengers might shrink due to the increased fare as most of the domestic passengers are of Dhaka-Chittagong route.

Strategically, quite a smart decision as due to repair work of one bridge, time requires to travel through Dhaka-Chittagong highway has increased significantly (with good part of the by-pass road in pretty bad shape). However, this will last only for a short while, and once the road is repaired, I wonder whether people are willing to pay BDT 10K for a route that can be covered by road approximately 4 and a half hours of drive. The exceptions will be the business travelers, of course. But the question is, are there enough such travelers for four private airlines plus Biman? Besides, CGP and ZYL seem to be the only two domestic routes financially viable, though not sure whether they are profitable or not.

With GMG already flying beyond the border and Best Air are aspiring (!!!) soon, I hope United and RBA have their business plan updated.

iasif

May 18th, 2008, 06:09 AM

AeroGeeK

May 18th, 2008, 07:57 AM

How about using 330-seater B787-3 for domestic & regional routes?! Tickets should be much cheaper as it carries 330 people.:banana:

iasif

May 18th, 2008, 03:51 PM

How about using 330-seater B787-3 for domestic & regional routes?! Tickets should be much cheaper as it carries 330 people.:banana:

Domestic routes no, regional ones maybe! BD domestic sectors, which are under 150 nm, are absolutely not for widebodies. It doesn't make sense for most people to spend BDT 4,000+ to fly from DAC to CGP when the road travel itself should be under 3 hours once the express highway gets built. The current time burden for a DAC-CGP flight is already over 2 hours (from terminal check-in to leaving the arrival hall). In terms of 'perceived value', the BDT 3,000+ extra expense to save just about 1 hour of time would be a waste for most people. Even if you consider that it currently takes 6 hours to drive to CGP from DAC, and a BDT 3,000+ extra expense saves under 4 hours, it'd still be a waste for most people, except business travellers.

In the course of time, the 'value difference' will widen, as jet fuel prices will continue to soar while vehicle fuel will continue to get subsidized.

TIslam

May 18th, 2008, 05:54 PM

Domestic routes no, regional ones maybe! BD domestic sectors, which are under 150 nm, are absolutely not for widebodies. It doesn't make sense for most people to spend BDT 4,000+ to fly from DAC to CGP when the road travel itself should be under 3 hours once the express highway gets built. The current time burden for a DAC-CGP flight is already over 2 hours (from terminal check-in to leaving the arrival hall). In terms of 'perceived value', the BDT 3,000+ extra expense to save just about 1 hour of time would be a waste for most people. Even if you consider that it currently takes 6 hours to drive to CGP from DAC, and a BDT 3,000+ extra expense saves under 4 hours, it'd still be a waste for most people, except business travellers.

In the course of time, the 'value difference' will widen, as jet fuel prices will continue to soar while vehicle fuel will continue to get subsidized.

The distance between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur is just some 200 miles, yet SIN-KUL is a lucrative sector. Must be the affluence factor.

AeroGeeK

May 18th, 2008, 05:57 PM

B787-3 can even fly between DAC-DXB/CGP-DXB & other Middle Eastern destinations. Why doesn't BG order some 783's? They carry mor pax than 788. And with TG flying BKK-DAC with A300/A332 BG can put up some good fight with B783!

clearsky

May 18th, 2008, 07:34 PM

. Why doesn't BG order some 783's?

With their own financial strength BG cannot afford to order ANY aircraft, let alone 783. They need to put positive cash flow over a long period in their book of ledger to cover up some of the losses that they have encountered before deciding to go on a spending spree on new planes.

AeroGeeK

May 18th, 2008, 07:47 PM

What is the present status of BG's attempt to lease a 777 to start JFK flights before October? Boeing was supposed to help in this matter.

iasif

May 18th, 2008, 09:18 PM

With their own financial strength BG cannot afford to order ANY aircraft, let alone 783. They need to put positive cash flow over a long period in their book of ledger to cover up some of the losses that they have encountered before deciding to go on a spending spree on new planes.

Well, it has ordered 10 already with more in options and I wouldn't be surprised if the options get exercised even before the first batch of new planes get delivered. That of course depends on how Biman manages and uses its planned leased fleet in the interim period.

As for the liabilities, the airline looks pretty good on papers now that the long outstanding accumulated fuel bills are taken up by the government (which of course I wasn't particularly in approval of). The challenge of the moment is how efficiently Biman manages its fleet and its operations now and into the future. If it acts smartly and grabs its share of the market growth, it can really end up ordering more new airplanes. If it gets itself messed, the creditors for the finance will be prompt at repossessing the aircraft leaving Biman high and dry. Its a roll of the dice that can go either way!

What is the present status of BG's attempt to lease a 777 to start JFK flights before October? Boeing was supposed to help in this matter.

Still hanging in the middle of nowhere. If BG can take ILFC's offer for the 2x 737NG's, it can be the beginning of a relationship that can help Biman find planes for the planned interim fleet. B777-200ERs/-300ERs won't be easy to come by soon (more so because of the 787 EIS delays) and it'll only be the big lessors who may have some to spare for Biman.

AeroGeeK

May 18th, 2008, 09:54 PM

Biman seemed serious enough about restarting JFK service. If they totally fail to get a B777-200ER/300ER they should try wet leasing a B767-300ER/A330-200 just to keep the JFK slot. I mean it's not totally impossible to keep the slot even if they fail to lease a 777. Depends on how serious Biman really is.

Moin

May 18th, 2008, 11:04 PM

In a bid to compete with the unorganised express and logistics sectors in SARRC countries, DHL in association with Blue Dart aviation is planning for a direct flight link from Kolkata to Dhaka in two months time.

Earlier the cargo to Dhaka from Kolkata went via Singapore and hence, this would reduce both time and cost for the company.

"The Blue Dart Aviation would run a direct flight to Dhaka in two months time and this would help bringing down our cost by atleast 20 per cent in addition to the transit time," said Craig Grossgart, vice president, DHL Express (India) Pvt Ltd.

According to the company this would be passed on to the customers implying a lower product cost. "Earlier we coudn't compete with the unorganised nature of the sector in this part but now we can compete with anybody, as the pricing would be more competitive," he claimed.

Subsequently the company plans to venture into the other SAARC nations as well particularly in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

"We would definitely like to be a first mover in the virgin territories of the region," he added. Accordingly, the company is in the process of designing a Intra-SAARC product which would be multi modal in the sense that it would use both air and surface network.

As of now the product is being tested on a pilot basis and the product is expected to be launched in a months time. In order to facilitate better functioning the company today inaugurated a 16000 sq ft, new state-of art facility at Kolkata.

"This facility at Kolkata would be a hub to tap market of Bangladesh. The trade between India and Bangladesh is estimated to be around 1.4 billion euro and 66 per cent of it are related to relevant to DHL," said Grossgart while talking with the media.

Meanwhile, Blue Dart has decided to add one more Boeing 757 cargo aircraft to its fleet
by the end of this year. Currently the company has seven aircrafts out of which three are Boeing 737 with the rest being Boeing 757.

"We are planning to add one more Boeing 757 by the end of this year and also upgrade all the 737 versions with 757 ones," said Ketan Kulkarni, head, marketing, Blue Dart.

DHL Express which holds 81 per cent stake in the Chennai-based air cargo company, has made a total investment of $300 million in the last four years in the country.

http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage_c_online.php?leftnm=10&bKeyFlag=IN&autono=37564