The Council’s June 2004 Hotel Study (undertaken by tourism, hospitality and leisure specialists - Grant Thornton), showed that the City would need to bring on-stream a further 600 hotel beds in 3 years and 2 600 hotel beds in 5 years to meet the projected 5% growth in demand over these periods (ie. Approximately 4 and 9 hotels respectively).

The top 20 identified hotel sites in rank order were:

1) Old Pavilion site front (Beachfront)
2) Natal Command – front end of film studio (Beachfront)
3) Old Pavilion site back – 3 sites (Beachfront)
4) Jewish Club – corner old fort and playfair roads (Beachfront)
5) Durban Point Beach sites
6) Old Umhlanga Rocks hotel site (now being developed as the Pearls)
7) Victorian Embankment – (near yacht mole)
8) Durban Point North pier (entrance to the harbour)
9) Vacant land – corner Brickhill and Molyneux roads (Beachfront)
10) Sunkist Beach – 100m north of Suncoast casino (Beachfront)
11) Department of Health Childrens hospital – 500m from ushaka. (Addington Beach)
12) Umhlanga Civic Centre site (Umhlanga Village)
13) Durban Point Canals
14) Centrum site – east end on Aliwal street (100m to ICC)
15) South End of Hoy Park – corner of Old Fort and Brickhill roads (Beachfront/ICC)
16) Umgeni River North Bank – river and beach frontage (Durban North)
17) Rest of Hoy Park
18) Kingsmead office park (next to the cricket stadium)
19) Durban Country Club
20) Old Ice Rink site (Beachfront)


Those in bold have been released.

The Study identified a number of Council-owned sites for hotel development and the Municipality is accordingly releasing 3 (three) specific opportunities within the city centre for hotel development in the short term. (In the process of identifying the 3 sites, a fourth site is created which it is intended to sell for General Business purposes. All sites fall within the city's demarcated UDZ area.

The hotel opportunities are:

Hoy Park Site

The Hoy Park hotel site, located within the Kings Park Sports and Recreation District, is rated in the top 20 sites, for development of an 80 – 200 roomed tourist/economy hotel. (3 Star)

The Municipality is proceeding with the rezoning of the southern portion of the site for General Business 3 purposes and dispose of two subdivisions of 7 500m2 each, with the eastern site being specifically reserved for the development of an economy/tourism hotel. (The remaining Hoy Park Site is then to be retained and rezoned for recreational purposes.)

Pavilion Site

The entire 3,1 ha Pavilion Site, together with sections of Snell Parade and the Beach Zone, located within the Beachfront District, has been identified for redevelopment creating opportunities for a low-rise Resort Hotel on the seaward side of a realigned Snell Parade, together with a mix of hotel and residential/apartment opportunities on the remaining property. (The overall improvement of public amenity is obviously a precondition to such redevelopment.)

Whilst detailed investigations are currently being undertaken in the above regard, the Hotel Study rated a site located at the intersection of Old Fort and Playfair Roads in the top 20 for development of a 150 to 250 roomed Tourist/Economy Hotel.


ICC/Exhibition Centre Site


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/icchotelplan.jpg

Both the ICC and Exhibition Centre are vital to the City’s economy, particularly if we are to retain our market share and status as Africa’s preferred conference venue.

However, both Centres (on 5,8ha and 4,7ha respectively) are capable of considerable further development when assessed in terms of the ICC’s Special Zone 57 and surrounding General Business (Central Area) Planning Regulations.

The aforementioned Hotel Study identified the area as one of top 20 locations for a hotel development serving the MICE (meetings, incentives, conventions & exhibitions) and business markets and it is accordingly proposed to rezone the Exhibition Centre Site to accord with the current ICC zoning and dispose of up to 20 000m2 of this ‘spare’ capacity (or permissible floor area) for the purpose of a 220 bed tourist/deluxe (3/4 star) hotel development.

Given the specific physical and operational demands of the ICC/Exhibition Centre, tenders will be given the option of submitting an offer on the bulk, based on two possible locations, rather than on a specific site.

Further, the location of the hotel on the Exhibition Centre site, which ‘activates’ the east-west pedestrian link is preferred and offers on this opportunity will be weighted by a factor of 1,25.


Maps showing the sites

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/hotel_location_1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/hotels_location_map_2.jpg

this report excludes the new hotels in Umhlunga which technically deducts from the overall key count required.
There seems to be more under development than the 9 required over the next 5 years with all the hotels in the point, the suncoast hotel the hotel at the NMR site etc etc.
Mike can you re post the list of hotels you did for us a while ago?

Interesing, anything happening in Greyville? u know those empty plots of land along side the race course & in front of Independent News Papers, there is plenty land there, some was saying that they heard someone was interested in opening up a huge B & B there.

those have been in dispute for years, first it was the forced eviction in the 60s and then the squatters in the 90s, I suppose thay are all still fenced up and a waste of valuable space. There should be high rise towers there continuing the buildings from the grey street side of greyville (15F ish) , great views over royal durban and the berea. Probably too close to umgeni and the station to make them work

Those sites in the overhead pic do not seem to be in the best areas nor do some of them in the list. The council should do something about street crime in those areas before trying tio put tourists there as it will only give them a bad impression of the city and do more damage in the long run.

the three sites released werent the best, but 3rd, 15th and 22nd. The area around the ICC is completely safe, so too are the other two sites that were released.

Hoy Park is to be redeveloped into an important public park, with an amphitheatre. The two sites released next to Hoy park are for a hotel , and a commercial building. The commercial site has already recieved 12 letters of interest in the site, hardly saying its a bad area.

The umhlanga and point hotels will eat into the 2004 predictions, but one thing that is important to mention is that occupancy rates and revenue per room rates have grown significantly in Durban over the past 18 months.

Marriot cited this mammoth growth as one of its prime reasons for investing, and the potential high growth that the point development will have on tourism.

Hotel Development in the greater Durban area


Confirmed Development

QuayWEST (Three Cities) – Point – 22 Suites (4 Star)
“5 Star” Hotel – Point – 150 Rooms (5 Star)
The Sails Hotel (Legacy Group) – Point – 75 Suites (4 Star)
San Raphael Hotel – Point – 50 Rooms (5 Star)
Dock Point Boutique Hotel – Point – 18 Rooms (5 Star)

Suncoast Hotel and Towers (Southern Sun) – Beachfront – 220 Rooms (4 Star)
Sibaya Hotel (Sun International) – Sibaya Casino, Umhloti – 130 Rooms (3 Star)
Ocean View Hotel (Three Cities) – Zimbali, North Coast – 150 Rooms (5 Star)
Zimbali Beach Resort (Fairmont) – Zimbali, North Coast – 250 Rooms (5 Star)
Imbilo Spa (Legacy) – Zimbali, North Coast – 30 Rooms (5 Star)
Simbithi Lodge – Salt Rock, North coast – 60 Rooms (4 Star)
Dunkirk Lodge – Sheffield Beach, North Coast – 45 Rooms (4 Star)
Marriot @ Notae Resorts – Umhlanga – 150 rooms (5 Star)
Royal Palm Suites (Three Cities) – Gateway, Umhlanga – 140 Suites (4 Star)
The Palms (Legacy) – Umhlanga - 110 rooms (4 Star)
Cotswald Lodge – Hillcrest – 40 rooms (4 Star)


Total number of new hotel Rooms/Suites = 1640


Proposed Development

Hyatt Umhlanga – Umhlanga – 170 rooms (5 Star)
3 hotels near the ICC (600 rooms)
City Lodge & Courtyard suite at the Point (150 & 60 rooms)
3 Hotel sites on the Beach next to uShaka. (600 Rooms)
Conversion of Addington Hospital to a Resort Hotel (350 Rooms)
2 Hotels on the Existing Pavillion site on the Beachfront (600 rooms)
2 Hotels next to the Suncoast Casino, one part of the Film City development, and one using an existing block of flats. (250 rooms)
3 Hotels in the Umhlanga Triangle development (400 rooms)
1 Hotel on Palm Boulevard in the Umhlanga New Town Centre (110 rooms)
2 Hotels in Umhloti, one opening onto the beach. (300 rooms)
Zimbali Lakes Hotel, part of the Zimbali lakes estate. (150 rooms)
1 Hotel in Florida Road on the corner of Gordon and Florida Roads (80 rooms)

Total Proposed new hotel rooms/suites = 3820


Grand Total = 5460

A changing Durban - Hotels going up everywhere

As the tourism pie in South Africa grows, so too does the need for quality accommodation. Since the birth of the ICC and Hilton hotel in 1997, Durban has seen little hotel development. Besides the new hotels around the Florida road precinct; Quarters (50 key, 4 Star), The Benjamin (70 key, 5 Star) and the latest Florida Park Hotel (30 key, 4 Star), there has been little else to add to the cities hotel portfolio, and was a clear sign of stagnant growth in the hospitality industry.

However, with the building boom that has engulfed the city at both the Point and Umhlanga, the knock on effect has lead to increased interest in developing the hotel market.

At present, Durban has the highest occupancy rates of any city in South Africa. And much of this demand can be attributed to the flourishing grow of the ICC, the improved tourist product with the arrival of uShaka Marine World and hence that more international tourists are including Durban on their South African holiday schedule. But the main reason is that Durban’s supply of hotel rooms has not grown significantly over the past years, unlike the massive boom in Cape Town, and to a lesser degree in Johannesburg. With this lack of development, there is now a built up demand to increase room numbers, and developers are jumping at the opportunity.

But where is all this hotel development going to occur? Along the beachfront as has always been the case? Well the short answer is no, but that does not mean that the area is excluded from the plans. Most of the new hotel development is clustered around the Point, but other significant precincts are also developing, but I will get to them later.

The Point, known for years as the seedy underbelly of the city, is under going a metamorphosis. Historic buildings are being renovated, and new modern ones are going up alongside them. Over 1200 apartments are under construction and 70 000m2 of retail and commercial space is coming on stream by the end of 2006, and amazingly 60 000m2 of this space is pre-let.

The point is to become the leading tourist zone of the city, the new home of late night bars, clubs and restaurants. As such, a great demand for hotel accommodation is predicted, and developers are more than willing to meet this demand. There are 5 confirmed hotel projects for the Point, all centred on Timeball Square (the heart of the point development).

The QuayWEST hotel is an 11 storey 4 Star 22 key suite hotel and is part of the Quays development, and to be managed by Three Cities. Across the canal is The Sails Hotel; a 14 storey 4 star 75 key hotel to be managed by the Legacy Hotel group (they also manage the Michelangelo in Johannesburg and the Portswood in Cape Town). Both these hotels are under construction.

On the other side of Timeball Square, lies Point Place, a 25 key hotel in 2 converted Victorian houses, and part of the Dockpoint development, which entail the modernisation of 29 Victorian homes, which are now on sale from R3,6m to R8m.

Across the canal from QuayWEST and Point Place, lies the Point’s ultimate hotel. The 5 star, 150 key Moorings Hotel, to be managed by an unnamed international operator. This hotel will have canal frontage on 3 sides, wrap around balconies, and its own private “marina” for 6 yachts. On the roof level will be Durban’s second revolving restaurant, with views across the entire point development.

The other hotels which have yet to start, are Heritage Place, a 60 key 5 star boutique hotel that is part of the Heritage Square development. A mere 50m away is the San Raphael Hotel, a 55 key 4 star hotel, on the harbour side of this luxury residential development.

City Lodge plan to develop 2 hotels near the Point precinct. The first being a 160 key City Lodge and the second, a 60 suite Courtyard Suite hotel. Both to be complete by 2008

In further phases of the Point development other hotel sites will be released, included in this release will be 3 sites with direct beach access, with minimum height limits of 12 floors, and a maximum of 20. These will be the big resort hotels, and as such hope to attract the international operators. They will be released in 2007.

The other hotel component at the Point will be alongside the Marina, and 2 sites have been set aside for hotels here. One, a small site suitable to a boutique hotel, the other, will be a landmark building (Burj al Arab type), at the entrance to the harbour. These will only be released in 2009.

ICC

With all this interest at the Point, it is almost hard to imagine that there are other development hotspots around the city. At present, 3 sites are up for release around the ICC for hotel development. The first is on the northern most portion of the ICC block on Commercial Road. This Hotel has already been declared and the operator chosen, but the development team have decided not to go public just yet. Construction starts in Jan 2006 and the hotel is expected to include 200 keys in a 4 Star format.

The 2 remaining sites are on the beach side of the ICC, in an area that has been given the project name of Africa Square. The land is presently occupied by light industry, used car dealerships and retail stores. But the revitalised zone is planned to combine the 2 hotels, apartment blocks, commercial space and a ground floor boulevard of shops and restaurants that leads to the beachfront, so as to integrate the convention centre with the beachfront hotels in a more pedestrian friendly approach. This project is expected to get underway in 2006/7 and its completion will depend on the demand from developers for the sites.

Suncoast

With the development of Suncoast Casino, the northern part of the beachfront has once again sprung to life. With its cinemas, bars, club, restaurants and gambling facilities, it has become a hive of activity 24/7. The fact that it also includes a superb beach, with grassed embankments, complimentary loungers, umbrella’s and the option of ordering cocktails that can be delivered to where you are catching a tan, makes this beach a deserved holder of one of the places in the Top 3 beaches in South Africa. The perfect compliment is the beach resort hotel, which is currently in the final stages of design. It will be a 220 key 4 star hotel operated by Southern Sun. In a later phase, Suncoast may possibly develop a second 3 star hotel on the northern side of the complex, which will also have direct beach access.

Beachfront

While Suncoast to the north, and the Point to the south maybe getting all the attention, the central core of the beachfront has not been ignored by the council. They plan to release the present Pavilion site on North Beach for development. The site will be divided up into 3 portions. A condition of development is that at least one site must be a hotel, but that all sites must contain restaurants and retail on the ground floor, so as to improve the beachfronts offering in this regard, which at present it is sadly lacking. They will form a retail boulevard and the existing road that runs in front of the site will be rerouted behind it, so that the zone is pedestrian friendly and attains a café society vibe, along the lines of Miami’s South Beach. This project has a completion clause with the sites, that all development must be complete before the 2010 soccer world cup. Also, all development must be greater than 20 floors.

Umhlanga

As the saying goes, “when it rains, it pores”. This statement is true in relation to the development underway in Durban. As commercial activities have moved progressively north in the last 10 years, the once quiet “village” of Umhlanga has undergone a transformation of its own. Over R12billion has been spent on commercial, retail and residential development in the area in this period, and which has justifiably given it the title of South Africa’s fastest growing region. As such property prices have risen, up by some 800% since 1994. Today the entry price for the area is R1,5m with the average price at R3,5m. Beachfront property is retailing at 30 000/m2, expensive, but lower than the 50 000+/m2 in Clifton, Cape Town.

The company behind this massive development is Moreland, the property arm of the Tongaat Hulett group, the largest private land owner in South Africa. Their vision for the Umhlanga region has spawned the development of the Umhlanga Ridge New Town Centre, a new city following the principles of the new urbanist philosophy, but tailored to the needs of Durban’s climate. This has lead leading figures in the industry to term the development “new Durbanism”.

At present there are 1400 apartments in various stages of completion, and a further 1200 have been approved, yet not released to the public. Couple this with 30 000m2 of commercial space and 25 000m2 of retail space across from the massive 145 000m2 Gateway Theatre of Shopping, and one can grasp the scale of the development.

Plans for the town centre include 11 000 units, 250 000m2 of commercial space and 4 hotels. City Lodge have already developed their flagship hotel opposite Gateway on Palm Boulevard. The second site is opposite the new town gardens and construction is to commence shortly. It is a 5 star 110 key hotel known as The Palms to be operated by the Legacy group (also operators for the Sails hotel at the point). Also along the Palm Boulevard, is Royal Palm, a 140 key 4 star hotel to be managed by the Three Cities Group. This will be a suite hotel and will tie in with the 1on1 convention centre in Gateway that is also run by the Three Cities Group.

Umhlanga Triangle

This is the most prime undeveloped real estate in the area, with sweeping views of the city, all the way to the bluff headland. It will comprise 3000 residential units and masses of commercial space along the same “new Durbanism” design policy.

A hotel contract is in the final stages of being signed with the Hyatt Group to develop a 5 star 250 key hotel on Umhlanga Rocks Drive opposite the Horizon Views apartment complex. The news that is of greatest interest however, is the recent announcement of the Notae Resorts complex opposite the Umhlanga Hospital. It comprises a 5 star 150 key Marriot Hotel, apartments, recording studios, a theatre, commercial space and a retail boulevard that will house Gucci, Cartier, Louis Vuitton and Armani.

Umhloti

With the development of the Sibaya Casino and link roads, many hectares of land has been opened up, and Moreland have stated that they intend to develop 5 hotel sites in this area, excluding those that Sibaya are developing.

Sibaya opened with Sibaya Lodge, a 5 star 24 room hotel. Their second hotel development is under construction and it is planned to open in the middle of 2006. It will consist of 150 rooms in a 3 star format.

The City Lodge group are in the final stages of deciding whether they will develop a city lodge and courtyard suite hotel in the Sibaya node and are in consultations with Moreland.

Zimbali

The final major hotel node to be developed, is within the confines of the Zimbali coastal estate, 45kms north of the city centre. Zimbali has some of the countries finest real estate, and since IFA bought into the project, it has steam rolled ahead. IFA are a Dubai based company that operates many resorts in the Middle East, Portugal, and East African coast.

Three hotels are to be developed in the existing estate, these being the Impilo Spa, a 5 star spa with 30 rooms. The second is Three Cities 5 star 120 room Zimbali Cradle Hotel, which is under construction. The final hotel in the existing Estate and next to the Cradle hotel, is IFA’s 6 star 250 room Zimbali Hotel and Beach Resort to be operated by Fairmont international.

With IFA’s involvement, the construction of a second golf course has been approved for the resort. Gary Player has been announced as the designer for the course and it is expected to be completed by the beginning of 2007. On this second course, to be known as Zimbali Lakes, will be the Lakes Hotel, a 200 room 4 star hotel to be built by IFA and run by an international operator.

With the mass of development under construction or planned in the hotel sector, Durban now faces the possibility of an over supply in hotel accommodation, but the developers do not believe that this will be the case. They believe that due to the phased nature of the developments, and Durban’s growing status, that all the development will be needed beyond the 2010 soccer world cup. One can only hope that this will be the case. One thing is for certain, Durban will be seeing many cranes towering over the skyline for many many years to come.

great article and well written. Should be in international mags

The Palms (Legacy) – Umhlanga - 110 rooms (4 Star)
they redoing the design of this one again, the owner wants more rooms, for more income, so I am awaiting the new design from EPA, once I have it, will let you know the amount of rooms.

^^awesome, thanx!

and Giles, dont u remember that article? i wrote it ages ago...it appeared in Hotel Magazine in November 2005. :)

dont forget that only the 1600 odd are confirmed! the others are merely planned sites available for development, not necessisarlity going to be developed.

Of the council sites listed as the Top 20, obviously not all of them will be developed into hotels. It was undertaken to give the council an idea of what it should do with its available land. Of course there are some better sites, but those are private land parcels and hence would not feature in the councils list. hope that clears some confusion!

At this point in time Durban Occupancies are running at 82%, compared to 64% in Joburg and 61% in Cape Town.

Our room rates are the same as Joburg, but marginally lower than Cape Town.

council has announced that 14 bids have been recieved for the 4 released sites. Decisions will be made soon, with work on the ICC hotel expected to start before year end

^^Awesome news, I hope we get to dip our finger into that one!

Snippet from an interview with outgoing head of Sheraton in SA, he is now moving to International HQ in germany...NB stuff for DURBAN.

Grant Ruddiman's move to Europe is next step up at Sheraton
May 19, 2006

By Audrey d’ Angelo

"Will you still be responsible for the operations in this country and are these likely to be extended?"

Yes. I am moving to Germany with my wife and children, but I shall shuttle between there and South Africa. We are looking at projects in Johannesburg and Durban and we may venture into a game park. We are interested in Johannesburg because that is where most international flights are bringing business travellers.

Umhlanga, outside Durban proper, has blossomed. Durban should be a model for other South African cities because the local government sees the city as a business. They see the bigger picture and understand what makes things tick and how to make the best of people and opportunities.

Full article - http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=553&fArticleId=3252784

The prime beach sites at the Military musuem site are to be released sooner than previously thought. The first of the 4 was released a few months back as the articles before will show. The prime beach site will be released in early 2007 (it was planned for release in 2008). Once a winning bid is selected work will begin in moving the road that runs between the land and the beach at that point, behind the site, so that the hotel can have direct beach access. Sounds good!

Direct beach access will be brilliant. Foreign tour operators have been asking for that for ages from the city.

^^ well suncoast will provide that from dec, and the 4 beach sites at the point will too. and i regard the hotels in umhlanga as offering that (cabana's and sands)

council has announced that 14 bids have been recieved for the 4 released sites. Decisions will be made soon, with work on the ICC hotel expected to start before year end

^^Awesome news, I hope we get to dip our finger into that one!

LOL, didnt know I said that, becuase I think we are!

^^ u are involved? which one of the 2? cos i have a mate that is working on the design for an ICC hotel and he says there are 2 going up!!

Think its the one near Exibtion center, oppositte ICC, 1,5billion sshh dont tell anyone suppose to be "top secret"

^^ R1,5bn??? for a hotel?? the ICC expansion only cost R450m!! Dear lord if that is true it will have to be massive and include ALOT more than a hotel

well not sure but i know the whole contract is worth about R1,5 billion, dont have any plans as yet, dont know whats happening at all, we just had a prelim meeting. So will have to wait for more. Its an international company designing it.

Over R1 billion??? International design team? Sounds yummilicious!! If true, it will have to rank as the biggest EVER investment in the city centre!

Well whatever it turns out to be it will be MASSIVE!! R1,5bn is what Gateway cost...ushaka only cost R750m...the ENTIRE Pearls dev is costing R1,6bn!

So at R1,5bn for this it will be something truely big!! I hope we get a monster tower there!! Got me all excited now!!!

why am I the last to know. Tell me tell me what do you all know?

okay I said in the Durbs discussion thread that the figure might drop to R1,2 billion, but thats it, I cant say anything more, this project is really really top secret shit, no more.
It is up to client to make it public, I breaching contract by giving you these figures, so I might get shot & killed (doubt they take it that far).
Ya so no more, see it when its complete or when the client is ready to make it public...
sorry

well F U!! lol

well F U!! lol
Please to meet you too,

anyway, this is the last bit of info that I am going to give your'll.
this project is worth R1,5 billion, BUT the hotel is costing R300 million, which right next to the ICC, the project will consist of offices, parkade, a complex & many other phases which will add up to the R1,5 billion mark.

So just to clear that up again, R1,5billion is the cost of the entire project, the hotel which is part of the project is only costing R300 million. okay :runaway:

Ok I have read back and I cant see where this started. so what you are saying is there is a massive propsal to develop something around the ICC that includes a hotel? Lets hope there is some heigfht in this propsal.
Sounds good and becarefull mate of CAs cos they can bite your arse.

BRILLIANT MATE!!! Thank you

At R300m for the hotel it could have height. The mast and San Raphael are costing R350m and are 40F and 35F respectively. Therefore i'd imagine the hotel to be in the 15-25F range...as for the office and other components...that cld add at least one more tower...which wld be great!! the ICC zone could support alot more development, especially since i recently attended a meeting whereby they were already planning their next expansion, which they plan to impplemment by 2009, which will add 20 000m2 to the centre.

All in all, things are looking up, up and up for DURBAN!!

WOW! Sounds awesome!! When I recently visited the Seattle International Centre I was struck by how close malls, restaurants, etc were to the centre for conference delegates and wished Durban could have the same. I think this has the potential to do so. Ab fab!! Of course, can you imagine if the ICC, Gateway, Suncoast, Ushaka, Wilsons Wharf, and the Point Waterfront were all within walking distance of each other??? Untouchable, even by global standards. Well, I can dream can't I???

yes u can jerome...but if this complex will include hotel, commercial, retail and other aspects, then it will be going a long way to achieve that goal...plus tie in the people mover (monorail or whatever) in a few years and all those things will be close by!

Ok I have read back and I cant see where this started. so what you are saying is there is a massive propsal to develop something around the ICC that includes a hotel? Lets hope there is some heigfht in this propsal.
Sounds good and becarefull mate of CAs cos they can bite your arse.

Its not PROPOSED it HAPPENING!!!, unlike the king shaka statue (which we still waiting for the go ahead from the Zulu high commision) This is all going ahead, awaiting drawings from the architects :D

BRILLIANT MATE!!! Thank you

At R300m for the hotel it could have height. The mast and San Raphael are costing R350m and are 40F and 35F respectively. Therefore i'd imagine the hotel to be in the 15-25F range...as for the office and other components...that cld add at least one more tower...which wld be great!! the ICC zone could support alot more development, especially since i recently attended a meeting whereby they were already planning their next expansion, which they plan to impplemment by 2009, which will add 20 000m2 to the centre.

All in all, things are looking up, up and up for DURBAN!!

Well I think they want to make it a full 5* star hotel, because its right next to the ICC, so not sure if it will be very tall, but it will be very very luxurious.

Whoa guys, just had a look at the Artist's impression of the place, its freeken huge!
the hotel is about 22 floors high, the design is quite impressive, but might change to make it look better, the plot of the complex is the same as ICC, look at the pic, what ever is hatched will be part of the complex!
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8104/icc7fr.jpg

oh & the thick red lines are Air Walks joining the ICC to the complex!!!

Mate this is an ADDITIONAL HOTEL and complex!! This is NOT, i repeat NOT the same one my mate is working on!! The one they have a design for is for the side that the exhibition centre is on!! So the centre is going to be surrounded by towers!! This is SO impressive!!

Your development seems to be part of the first phase of development of Africa Sqaure and the pedestrian focussed link to the beach!!

And that is a masive site...not surprised it will include much more than a hotel!

WOW

^^Why dont mark up the area in which ur mates hotel is on with that pic?

bye bye molassis factory and shitty used car lots

will do that...but why is there an airbridge going to the Renault and KIA dealership on the top right of the pic?

uhh I dont know, that part of the impression was cut off, but there was deff an air bridge going that way

so they maybe bought that land too?? all in all this is MIGHTY impressive mate! What other city in SA has projects as massive and awesome as all the ones we currently have going in Durban? none!

maybe to the shitty lodge?

LOL no! i presume the dealerships will be redeveloped

^^Couldt be, because to cross that intersection will be a nightmare! so prob like a pedestrian crossing for the ICC ppl.

Mate u know when they making it all public??

Here's ur image again with the other ICC development.

It is a 15-20F 4 star hotel, 220 - 250 rooms. it will also include 5000m2 of additional exhibition space. Will only be made public in august

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/ICCDevincludingall.jpg

No Idea mike, we will have to wait & see

all in all sounds positive

Wow! I go to bed and wham! Another major new development in Durban! Man, can't a guy get some sleep without some major development announced (or leaked!!) overnight?? Durbsboi, what is the timeline on this?

So, all in all, three hotel towers within a 200 m radius of each other! Will look great, esp if they all have a glass and steel look like the Hilton.

Can u at least say what countries the design and money are coming from?

jerome...it cld be more than three...cos it will be the hilton, the DEC site one, this new (which hasnt been said if it includes more than one tower...) and then another one i'm hearing about in the Centrum as part of that multimillion ICT hub development, which will include a 3 star hotel...cos thats one segment that isnt catered for near the icc

^^Well the client is local, (non-white, & he aint a bee) the time line will be fairly large, consdiering the main part to the project is the Hotel which they want up first,
then the offices & parkade, & PARK will follow

so the hotel obviously before 2010...the others much later? all in all a 5-6year project? or am i making it longer than it is? 3-4?

cos the other will be complete by end 2008

ok so local...why the international design team then? are they a prominent international group? also have they chosen an operator yet?

No idea bro, not sure whether they using a fully international design team, maybe COX from Australia? tehy designed the ICC

mike you are like a ferret getting info. good on yeah its great to see people so passionate about theur city

:eek2: Wow this is so impressive. First the awesome stadium, now this. Feel like I need to go out and celebrate
Thanks for the info DB and Mike keep ferreting :)

LOL...i shall...still gotta release the R1,1bn development next to the Marriot in Umhlanga...my word Durban has it going on with BIG developments right now...how sad it must feel to live anywhere else in SA....lol :)

well to be honset its playing catch up cos from 1980 till 2000 fuck all happened in Durban wher as JHB developed sandton/midrand etc and CP had a massive investment .
However Durbans investment boom has really left the rest of the country far behind.Only problem I see is simmilar to whats happening here in the middle east-not enough skilled labour, material supply issues, not enough consultnsts etc. massive growing pains due to capacity

^^ i totally agree. My dad's firm is recruiting internationally at present to fill certain void's and says the number of engineers coming thru is not enough to meet the demand.

NPC cement have added an extra phase to their expansion plans, for they erred on the side of caution and have now realised they need to have far greater capacity.

they will have to pay international rates to recruit decent guys , the average SA consultant and Pm gets really poorly paid compared to whats being offered in the worlds other booming places

They are an international firm with offices and projects across africa, europe and asia.

DB...dad says that Marshall's own all the land you talking about, they part of this dev then?

He also said that a Dubai based firm and themsleves are working on a new beach dev next to Suncoast...it will include a hotel and beach fronting cafe's.

Will check if they have anything to do with the hotel,
but I made a mistake with that pic the first time,

this is the land they eill be using
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6074/icc37ui.jpg

Now that pic ture makes alot more sense. i was told that the redevelopment of the yeast site was being undertaken and was separate from the one you are talking about. that will be another highrise, but it is a commercial building. when u mentioned ur project i thought it was part of it, but obviously it is something different...so quite a few towers going to pop up around the icc!!

Now ur skybridge to the top right makes sense!

Its actually more exciting now that its this site u showing...mean even more dev!!

yeh, I knew something looked wrong with that first pic I posted, oh & the architects are local (in Durban) . I cannot mention their name, but they have done quite a few projects oversea's mainly in Dubai, even lent COX Richards of Australia a hand in designing the ICC. So that should be a MAJOR clue to who the architects are, & judging from their previous projects, this one should look pretty spectacular.

SVA and ivor daniels is your man

on the money for the first one Giles ;)

I know Ivor cos I studied with his son and worked with them on the Empangani prison many moons ago

so from what u have seen its very impressive db??

well its all still sketch, so it looks ok, but they say that the hotel's shape is going to change, so I am awaitng the new design. But the rest of the phase's look quite good, it should transform that part of town BIG TIME.

how high rise is it besides the hotel?

Hotel Development in the greater Durban area


Confirmed Development

QuayWEST (Three Cities) – Point – 22 Suites (4 Star)
“5 Star” Hotel – Point – 150 Rooms (5 Star)
The Sails Hotel (Legacy Group) – Point – 75 Suites (4 Star)
San Raphael Hotel – Point – 50 Rooms (5 Star)
Dock Point Boutique Hotel – Point – 18 Rooms (5 Star)

Suncoast Hotel and Towers (Southern Sun) – Beachfront – 220 Rooms (4 Star)
Sibaya Hotel (Sun International) – Sibaya Casino, Umhloti – 130 Rooms (3 Star)
Ocean View Hotel (Three Cities) – Zimbali, North Coast – 150 Rooms (5 Star)
Zimbali Beach Resort (Fairmont) – Zimbali, North Coast – 250 Rooms (5 Star)
Imbilo Spa (Legacy) – Zimbali, North Coast – 30 Rooms (5 Star)
Simbithi Lodge – Salt Rock, North coast – 60 Rooms (4 Star)
Dunkirk Lodge – Sheffield Beach, North Coast – 45 Rooms (4 Star)
Marriot @ Notae Resorts – Umhlanga – 150 rooms (5 Star)
Royal Palm Suites (Three Cities) – Gateway, Umhlanga – 140 Suites (4 Star)
The Palms (Legacy) – Umhlanga - 110 rooms (4 Star)
Cotswald Lodge – Hillcrest – 40 rooms (4 Star)


Total number of new hotel Rooms/Suites = 1640


Proposed Development

Hyatt Umhlanga – Umhlanga – 170 rooms (5 Star)
3 hotels near the ICC (600 rooms)
City Lodge & Courtyard suite at the Point (150 & 60 rooms)
3 Hotel sites on the Beach next to uShaka. (600 Rooms)
Conversion of Addington Hospital to a Resort Hotel (350 Rooms)
2 Hotels on the Existing Pavillion site on the Beachfront (600 rooms)
2 Hotels next to the Suncoast Casino, one part of the Film City development, and one using an existing block of flats. (250 rooms)
3 Hotels in the Umhlanga Triangle development (400 rooms)
1 Hotel on Palm Boulevard in the Umhlanga New Town Centre (110 rooms)
2 Hotels in Umhloti, one opening onto the beach. (300 rooms)
Zimbali Lakes Hotel, part of the Zimbali lakes estate. (150 rooms)
1 Hotel in Florida Road on the corner of Gordon and Florida Roads (80 rooms)

Total Proposed new hotel rooms/suites = 3820


Grand Total = 5460


Mike, I don't think there's a hotel component in the Dockyard project. The Edwardian homes diagnonally opposite Timeball Square that are currently skeleton structures are going to become the homes of two of the developers and not a boutique hotel. Unless you're talking about someplace else.

how high rise is it besides the hotel?
Hotel & Office block, right next to each other, so 2

and both are 20 somethings?

^^Yep but they pretty close to one another so they look like 1 building at the moment, but as I said they re-designing it.

so two 20 something blocks...fantastic boyo!!

jerome...yes there is a small boutique guesthouse that the developers are building

All this is such great news for the city!

I will add both to Emporis as ICC hotel and ICC office tower at say 22F each and both as proposed until we know more

cant wait to see what this development looks like...skybridges over those two roads will look sweet!

so two 20 something blocks...fantastic boyo!!

jerome...yes there is a small boutique guesthouse that the developers are building

If they're not renovating an old building but constructing one from scratch, the only avail plot that the developers own overlooks the current Ushaka parking plot (at the end of the Edwardian homes).

well they told me it was the two places on timeball square...u say its private homes for them...i lost then

Well, that's what the developer told me twice now. I was also told that work will only begin on the 2 pvt homes once Dockpoint and Marine Point are complete.

answer me this giles...Why do u think there is a MASSIVE number of large hotel projects underway in Durban? You cant say 2010, cos no hotel developer would build just for that.

Mike a number of factors. firstly tourism is the no1 development catalyst in the world at the moment and secondly we have come from historic low intrest rates so debt is cheep. In durbans context I also believ that there has benn no or little investment for the past 15 years in decent 5 and 4 star brand accomodation (hilton /riverside etc the exceptions) so the market has been neglected . I can remebr in the early 80s that durban had more hotel rooms than the rest of SA together. so while the rest of SA caught up Durban went to sleep on the hotel developmnet front. It also has not been a leisure driven sector for a while and the focus universally has been on businees end of things, hense the polifiration of the usual suspects worldwide (hyatt,hilton, sheraton, intercon and mariott). However in the past 5 years the returns on the hotel development side have been growing with revpar up and occupancies hitting record highs. This causes a spurt in the market with everyone trying to develop hotels to move out of the retail/residentail/commercial cycle or which ever of those we are in at the time.
Durban has also matured as a business market and the ridge has caused that. I also think that a strong self belief is evident in durban and this is simmilar to places like vancounver/melbourne etc which are almost self sustaining and do not rely on massive foriegn investment to make things happen. Take CT for example which needed a massive spurt of forign investment (residentail and hospitality) over the past 10 years for it to boom, Durban is doing that with its own money ie people in Durban are possitive about Durban.

Durban is riding a massive catch up boom but we mus make it sustainable and not try to rape it while we can. I think this investment in durbans hotel sector is the ultimte maturity cycle in a real estate development so we should support it big time.

^^ Thanx giles, i truely value your comments since this is the line of business u are in (esp the hotel front at present). It is a massive spurt and it seems to constantly be growing, not only from a hotel perspective, but even with the announcement the other of concrete steps on the new airport. Come 2010 durban will be more unrecognisable than it is becoming at present and all those durbanites that havent been here for many years are in for a shock

Just to add, some new info i have found.

1) Protea Umhlanga is expanding, adding 50 rooms.

2) The Oyster Box hotel on the Umhlanga beach is also expanding and modernising in a way that compliments the ultra modern style of the Oysters Apartment towers. 40 rooms are being added.

Mike, this is my opinion based on a remote observation of Durbans hospitality development enviroment.
I must say that the biggest hinderence to large scale hotel development is the poliferation of the B&B in SA cities. They are controled big time in most western cities in order to not kill the hotel sector.The city should regulate them and not allow 400 B&Bs in morningside/berea etc.I wouldednt look at investing hundreds of millions in a hotel for a guy to wake up one moring on the berea and become a B&B .
I also think the days of the no name brand hotels are going to come to an end esspecially if the city wants to compete on a global stage.
The situation is very simmilar to Brisbane where there are hundreds of no name hotels and B&Bs and the business hotel brands have stayed away. No brissie is trying to play in the big league like Melb and Syd and they need the hiltons/hyatt/mariott/sheraton etc brands as they are universally identifiyable by the international traveler.
I always stay in a intercon type propery when I travel cos I know the service and offer will be the same no matter where I go.

You will see the independant operator takeing strain and will become the 3* and below operator instead of the current 4*plus.
I think Durbans biggest asset as far as hospitality goes are the 4 Point beachfront hotel resort sites. They are unriveled in SA and even in the Southern Hemisphere with No major city able top offer these to developers. Lets hope the city coooses wisely the operator and brand for these cos it will make or break the entire point on a international level (think Cape grace and table bay hotel-full of tourists)

^^ yeh those beach sites at the point and on the marina will be fantastic! Very miami!

Intresting article I recieved today.Note the business hotel angle
Aug. 14 (Bloomberg) -- The old adage about why to invest in
land -- they're not making any more of it -- has a corollary when
it comes to hotels. They're not building enough of them.
The result is higher prices for hotel stocks such as the
U.K.'s InterContinental Hotels Group Plc, Shangri-La Asia Ltd. of
Hong Kong and Marriott International Inc. of the U.S. They're
outpacing broader stock markets, even as rising interest rates
threaten to slow economic growth and record oil prices and
terrorism concerns deter travelers.
``The stocks that benefit the most are the ones that benefit
from the corporate business traveler,'' said David Smith of
Minneapolis-based Sit Investments, which manages $6.6 billion and
owns 471,000 Marriott shares. ``Businesses are spending money and
reinvesting in their businesses. There are supply constraints that
create pricing power for the hotels.''
Shares of the 10 biggest hotel companies by market value have
returned an average of 12.3 percent in the past year including
reinvested dividends, beating the 11.7 percent rise in Morgan
Stanley Capital International's World Index, a benchmark for
global stocks.
Windsor, England-based InterContinental, owner of the Holiday
Inn chain, has returned 16 percent. Shangri-La, Asia's biggest
luxury hotel operator, also has gained 16 percent. While Bethesda,
Maryland-based Marriott, the largest U.S. hotel company, is
trailing the MSCI index with a 3.6 percent increase, it's beating
the benchmark year to date.

http://www.kondotel.co.za/images/graph04.gif

Demand for hotel accommodation in Durban is of such a nature that 17 new large scale hotel developments are feasible within the next 10 years, according to an article in SA Travel News Weekly in April 2006 based on research by Grant Thornton.

Interesting times...

however this article says only 2 of the 9 NEW hotels are not in Cape town. If we get a mariott and Taj then thats it.
I thought there was accor and rezinor also comming to durban and zimbali?

That article was from 2004...i should have made that clear giles. alot has changed but it shows what the thinking was then. sorry for the confusion

Yesterday's Post newspaper had a good article on the new Suncoast Hotel, will try & get it, it also had an impression of the Tower part, the main just was, that there will be a hotel & a seprate Tower hotel, which sounds like a 5 star hotel, many shieks & top tycoons have booked out floors! of the Tower for next years A1 GP, the hotel is due for completion by Dec.

So the hotel and tower hotel are separate projects or part of one building? Also, how tall did the 'tower hotel' look? If both are scheduled to be complete by Dec then I suspect that they are both part of one large structure.

^^ So u saying that the Suncoast hotel is in fact 2? i confused

^^Ya something like that, will post the article tomorrow

^^so the article?

anyway...more exciting news.

My dad'd firm has secured the project management contract for another new hotel. And DB its the site u wanted (near suncoast to the north). The hotel is in the final stages of design and will be a beach resort hotel with direct beach access and a semi private beach. From initial indications the developers will be using the max bulk for the site and it will be a tower hotel. sounds super cool...all we need are designs now!

Imagine if it were double this size!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k59/DURBAN2010/HOTELe-invite.jpg

Thanks for postign the image, p2bsa! Yes, it would have been incredible if this was double the size and height. I can't understand why they didn't go higher. On the plus side, I like the continued art deco theme. At least it's more subtle (read 'tame'!) than the current section which some people find quite garish with its full multitude of colours.

The way I understand things, this part in the image is the uber-luxurious 'Towers' section. The 'hotel' section is to the right of the image, joining with the current Suncoast module.

Does anyone know if either of these components includes a retail / restaurant section? It think this is desperately needed given how full the current section can get.

^^so the article?

anyway...more exciting news.

My dad'd firm has secured the project management contract for another new hotel. And DB its the site u wanted (near suncoast to the north). The hotel is in the final stages of design and will be a beach resort hotel with direct beach access and a semi private beach. From initial indications the developers will be using the max bulk for the site and it will be a tower hotel. sounds super cool...all we need are designs now!



Oooh!! I like the sound of this!!! I hope they go at least 12 floors, although I'd gladly take 20+ anyday! Plus, a modern design would be fantab. Please post any info on this when it becomes avail. Now I wonder if this means the tram system will go past Suncoast to accomodate this hotel (and possibly others in this stretch?)

Good stuff, dysan, uh ya the article, i left it at home with my flash drive :doh: will bring it tomorrow or post it from my hom PC. Yes the new hotel @ suncoast will have restaurants & what not, because I know some guys that were approached by suncoast to open up there, the hotel will be liked to the casino via the level 1, near Havana Grill.

^^ i dont see a gap near havana to link them thru...

know of what other places are coming? surely they will open onto the boardwalk?

please put it up 2m...thanx bud!

Sun International to build Hotel in Umhlanga

Sun International have announced preliminary plans to develop a 5 star hotel in the new umhlanga triangle precinct. Sources say the hotel will accomodate 250 rooms with sweeping city views. Added features include a Day Spa and helipad. The hotel will be situated next to South Africa's first Marriott hotel and plans are to complete it before the 2010 Soccer world cup.

ENDS

That's fantastic news! I hope it's tall enough to compliment the Marriot (lthough with only 250 rooms, I doubt it). I like the helicopter pad idea.

How do u doubt it? The Marriott only has 150 rooms...

Wow! Umhlanga is going to have quite a few 5 star hotels. Any news on the Hyatt that was discussed a while ago? Is is still going to go ahead?
Sun International's hotels are always impressive so that's great news.

The Hyatt is still in the planning phase. But the hotel may be a different brand for Hyatt seem to be favouring a site in the Sibaya beach node, or The durban beachfront site.

How do u doubt it? The Marriott only has 150 rooms...

Oh, okay. That's good to hear! Well in that case, maybe if we pray hard enough it will be taller than the Marriot and not some low, fat structure! :)

^^ i dont think it will be too low (land hog) or too high. I think they will want max views, but its not Sun International style to go too high...naybe they will change...

Well, there is precedent for high Sun Internationals in Durban. Weren't the old Maharani and Elangeni Hotels originally both Sun Internationals? I'll be happy with their heights.

romanSA, absolutely right. The Maharani and Elangeni were both Southern Sun-branded hotels. While I wouldn't exactly call the Elangeni a high-rise, the Maharani definitely is. It's a shame that the Durban beachfront became so low-rent and tacky in the late 80s and early 90s, because that was a very nice 5-star hotel, now reduced to 3-star mediocrity because the surrounding area declined.

The old Maharani (Southern Sun North Beach) and Elangeni (Southern Sun Elangeni) are both 4 Star hotels now.

And Southern Sun and Sun International are not related, they are completely separate companies.

dont forget the old Malibu (21floors) was also a southern sun property along with the Cpae sun933 floors) and the joburg sun (40floors) and the old landrost hotel (25floors), so they are no stranger to towers

Durbans beach front needs a major revamp, ALL those hotels should be renovated & its not like they not making money, I mean last year Blue Water's raked in with the A1, there room prices for the day was times by 3!

Most of the major beachfront hotels have recently undergone revamps- Balmoral, Edward, Maharani, Elangeni etc. Most of them offer pretty good standards. There are some like the Blue Waters which could be spruced up though.

I hope Hyatt heads for Durban beachfront. Things are really going to pick there!

YEAH, BUT all the hotels u mentioning are SOUTHERN SUN!! Giles

The one in Umhlanga is SUN INTERNATIONAL!!!

Thats why i dont think it will be high rise!

YEAH, BUT all the hotels u mentioning are SOUTHERN SUN!! Giles

The one in Umhlanga is SUN INTERNATIONAL!!!

Thats why i dont think it will be high rise!

Thanks for the clarification.

YEAH, BUT all the hotels u mentioning are SOUTHERN SUN!! Giles

The one in Umhlanga is SUN INTERNATIONAL!!!

Thats why i dont think it will be high rise!

LOL! And now don't forget the Sandton Sun... :D

The old Maharani (Southern Sun North Beach) and Elangeni (Southern Sun Elangeni) are both 4 Star hotels now.

And Southern Sun and Sun International are not related, they are completely separate companies.

I walked by the hotels twice last month, to visit the Sunday flea market. The Elangeni had a 4-star grading plaque. The old Maharani had a 3-star plaque.

My larger point, though, was that aggregate quality of the beachfront hotels have gone downhill over the past 15 years as the wealthier tourists began favouring resorts outside the city, and as the greater CBD area deteriorated. The first few times I came to Durban, I believe the beachfront had two 5-star hotels (Maharani & Edward), two 4-star hotels (Malibu and Elangeni...or was the Malibu a 3-star even in the early 90s?), and a few 3-star hotels. Now there's the 4-star Elangeni, 4-star Edward, and a whole bunch of 3-stars. The Durban beachfront has lost its upscale side.

Like DB said, the whole beachfront needs a makeover. The hotels are just one facet of that. Hopefully, once the area between the ICC and beach is cleaned up, the beachfront will be well & truly linked by a safe corridor to the ICC, and then the beachfront might recover some of its glory.

YEAH, BUT all the hotels u mentioning are SOUTHERN SUN!! Giles

The one in Umhlanga is SUN INTERNATIONAL!!!

Thats why i dont think it will be high rise!

Mike,when all those buildings were done it was the same company. it matters not if they do high rise or not (cascades in Sun city which is international is 21F) its a function of the land value which drives the need for height

Hey guys have a scoop that sounds really positive for the beachfront.

The Southern Sun North Beach (old Maharani) is presently undergoing a massive revamp. The aim is to restore the hotel to 5 star status by the end of next year and therefore provide a second 5 star hotel for the beachfront (The Suncoast Towers will be the first when it opens in Dec).

To me this is a positive sign and step forward.

The only reason i know this is i am mates with one of the contractors and they plan to make it public knowledge during the course of 2007.

Mike, I thought the Pavillion site was due to be 5* along with at least 2 of the new beachfront hotel sites in the point?
The pavillion site is durbans biggest wasted oppotunity and has been spoken about for about 20 years

The Southern Sun North Beach (old Maharani) is presently undergoing a massive revamp. The aim is to restore the hotel to 5 star status by the end of next year

I hope this happens. That would definitely be good news. My grandparents practically lived in that hotel for 3 months every year between 1984-89. And they had nothing but praise for what it used to be like. I remember eating Christmas dinner at the Maharani in 1988. Those waiters knew how to make every guest feel like royalty.

any one remember raffels

any one remember raffels

Nope!
Great news about the Maharani! Along with the suncoast hotel and the new point hotels it'll go a good way in adding sparkle to the golden mile.

Mike, I thought the Pavillion site was due to be 5* along with at least 2 of the new beachfront hotel sites in the point?
The pavillion site is durbans biggest wasted oppotunity and has been spoken about for about 20 years

What you are saying is correct. of the 4 beach fronting sites in the point at least 2 will be 5 star with the others being 4 star.

The pavillion site will house 3 hotels. The 5 star will front the promenade.

i didnt raise this in my post above as these hotels will only open after the Maharani regains its 5 star status.

raffles was the best night club in Durban in the early 80s and was at the top of the Maharani and you could get there via the red express lift on the outside. isane place with the windows on the beach side going up and away from you so you could look straight down. It looked great when the lights were flashing from the beachfront

^^Before our time old man :D, but sounds wicked , maybe we should restore it, & put that elecator back in operation!

i hope they do put the lift back in operation!!!

and yeh, early 80s is when i was born!!

Too bad I'm too young to have visited Raffles as a nightclub. Before they rented (and eventually bought) flats in Durban, my grandparents were regular, long-term guests at the Maharani during the mid-80s. I remember my gran talking about the nightclub. She said that during the day, hotel guests could take the red lift up to the club, and just enjoy the view. It would be great to get the Maharani back in 5-star condition. It's a shame that Sol's showpiece Durban hotel (and the surrounding beachfront) fell from such good heights.

Hi all. Am finally back in Durbs. What great news! I hope they resort to the old name. It still commands such respect when people speak about it. Besides, the suites on the top floor still retain their Indian-inspired names (don't ask me how I know about these suites...) and luxury. Would be good if they were meaningful again.

Thought the Beverly was and still is Sol's pride...his first hotel...

I said his showpiece Durban hotel.

Sold show piece hotel in SA would have been the Joburg Sun and Towers, now called Kwa something hotel.
It was massive at the time at 40floors and was the biggest hotel in SA at the time.
Pity about its decline

Is that the Carlton Center hotel??

According to Neil Fraser, that Hotel was bought by some other lady from, if not mistaken, Ghana ans she is busy with renovating it.

Is that the Carlton Center hotel??

No. The Johannesburg Sun building (it's still there) is due north of the Carlton Centre. It's covered in bluish glass, and is a very striking building. The hotel had a short-lived stint as a Southern Sun luxury hotel, since the Jo'burg CBD fell rapidly into decline just a few years after the hotel opened, sometime around 1985.

I actually stayed in the Johannesburg Sun in 1996, with my immediate family and grandparents. (My grandad stayed in the hotel once when it was a 5-star, back in 1988, and he wanted to return to see what had become of the place. Big mistake.) By that time Southern Sun had downgraded it from a 5-star hotel to just a Garden Court. The rooms were nice enough. Standard 3-star stuff, but with great views. The surrounding area, however, was awful. (If you ever visited Durban's Point Road back in the early 1990s, you saw a much better looking neighbourhood!) Loiterers, litter, the typical Jo'burg CBD litany of horrors. After we checked in, the desk clerk came out from behind the desk and told us that we should, under no circumstances, leave the hotel until we checked out the next morning. (At this point my mom & gran were furious with my grandad for even considering this place! I thought it was pretty funny, and looked on the whole thing as a bit of an adventure.) She said that she and the other staff did not leave the hotel on foot, and avoided even driving in the area at night. I'm not sure when Southern Sun gave up on the property.

I wonder if that nightclub will be available for purchase on top of the maharani, it will be really cool to revamp that place, & it has all lot things going for it already.

1) Its in a (or going to be) 5* star hotel
2) Its on the top floor which has awesome views of the beachfront
3) That lift to go to it is spectacular!

I see a business idea! Anyone want to join?

^^ it will be amazing to have a club there again!! my parents have been gushing about the time they spent up there!! i see it being a roaring success...but it will have to be very upscale in keeping with a 5 star hotel

So now the tenders are offically out for the new ICC hotel, with min 220 rooms at 3 star to 4 star deluxe design level. Lets see what happens with it

Raffels was a mega club in the days , I remember sneaking in there to see the club when I was like 14 one day and was blown away by the views esspecially the front view with the angled glass. It is small and also has access from the internal lifts in the hotel not just the panoramic lift on the outside.

Good to see the EOI go out for the new hotel (im assuming its the 19F one???)

^^ yes it is

SA may be in line for eight luxury hotels

23 Feb 2007 - Inet Bridge -
By Chris van Gass

German group Arabella Hotel Holdings International's joint venture could see another eight hotels being built in SA in the next few years.

The group, which has business co-operation with Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, already plans to provide three new hotels by 2010 in SA and Namibia. It has identified sites in Sandton, Durban and Cape Town.

It is also looking at other areas, including Port Elizabeth, Bloemfontein and Kimberley, says Heinz Grub, the newly appointed chief operating officer of Arabella South Africa Holding.

He has previously managed the Le Royal Mansour Miridien in Casablanca, Morocco.

Grub said that ArabellaStarwood's "area of exclusivity" included Germany, Switzerland and the Balearic Islands, but it had expanded to include SA and Namibia.

"This means the Sheraton Pretoria is now part of ArabellaStarwood's portfolio and all future projects in SA and Namibia will form part of the joint venture," said Grub.

He said the group had already received financial backing from a South African bank which would partner them in the hotel venture in Cape Town.

It could possibly be part of ArabellaStarwood's "W" brand, a trendy and vibrant hotel product. This site was situated in the V&A Waterfront.

Grub said it would be difficult to speculate on the size of the investment as the group had a range of hotel brands. The investment would depend on which type of hotel was built.

ArabellaStarwood owns and operates the ArabellaSheraton Grand Hotel, opposite the Cape Town International Convention Centre, and the Western Cape Hotel and Spa, a five-star luxury resort hotel on the Arabella Golf Estate near Hermanus.

It also owns the Blaauwklippen Agricultural Estate in Stellenbosch and the Paulaner Brauhaus in the V&A Waterfront. Grub said

while the group was confident about the economy of SA, the country?s biggest challenge was to address crime.

"We still have a lot of work to do about our (international) customers' perceptions about crime, especially those from the US.

Crime is still a bit of a stumbling block, but we try to put the issue of crime in perspective with other world cities such as New York"

Business Day

Origninally posted by Gregpz...thanx bud!

Club Med moves into SA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------CLUB Méditerranée intends to build a resort in SA and plans to have completed the project before the 2010 Fifa World Cup, said Henri Giscard d’Estaing, president director general chairman and ceo, at a press conference held earlier this week.

“Club Med believes that SA could offer a bush and beach experience second to none. We are looking at KwaZulu Natal, however an announcement of the exact location will be made before the end of 2007,” he said.
Club Med is repositioning itself as an upmarket, family resort group.

so sheraton is on a mission in SA, W brand would work so well in CT

So now the tenders are offically out for the new ICC hotel, with min 220 rooms at 3 star to 4 star deluxe design level. Lets see what happens with it

Dysan,

You probably heard about the eight luxury hotels planned for SA by the ArabellaStarwood group based in Germany, which also owns the ArabellaSheraton (which will soon be upgraded to a Westin) in Cape Town and the Western Cape Hotel & Spa in Hermanus.

Durban has been identified for for one of the first two new Arabella hotels in SA. Would you by chance know if ArabellaStarwood has a bid to run the new ICC hotel to be built in Durban?

^^ Not according to what i know. Sheraton have secured the operating licence for a new hotel in Umhlanga new town centre, opposite the new CJ saunders park, at the end of palm boulevard. So 50m walking distance from Gateway.

however i'm sure they could potentially bid and use the 2 hotels as 2 separate brands within their portfolio, for both would be serving differing markets. Umhlanga being more business/tourist orientated and the ICC catoring predominately for conventions and business

Anymore on the Club med??

My project is starting to get me a bit scared, its already the 3rd month in 2006, & if they want it ready before 2010, then I feel work should have begun, or atleast we should have had plans by now! I phoned the QS & they no nothing still, so we just going to have to wait. :(

^^ no not really. The marriot and mast are just about to start and both will easily be completed by end 2009 like planned. Spinnaker has only been going for 17months and will be complete before 24months. so i dont see a big worry on yours not being ready just yet

^^I agree about the hotel, but Im mean the whole precinct in our project, i.e the offices, parking lot, park, etc...

Im just getting anxious I guess. Im sure they will send me something by this year.

Have it on good authority from a mate that works at stefan antoni's durban office, that that firm has partnered with a local developer and Hyatt hotels for the development of the DEC hotel site next to the ICC. It will be the firms second highrise development and is planned to be 18F with a massive roof feature.

Yummy!! I hope the roof feature is like the Chrysler Building in New York. Well I can dream, can't I??

oooh chrysler building, styling!

Still the greatest skyscraper ever!

Will be great to have a Hyatt in the city centre! Am I correct in saying that the Hyatt in Umhlanga isn't happening anymore? With so much going on it's all a bit confusing.

The Hyatt in Umhlanga fell under primarily because the developer could not secure the land parcel Hyatt wanted for the development. The land was instead taken by Zenprop. Hyatt are still very keen to get into the durban market. There are 3 additional hotel sites on Ridgeside in umhlanga but they will only be available from 2008 onwards, too late for 2010 ambitions, but right for market demand in the umhlanga area. hence operators are looking at the city and point

GRID are at present developing a 170 room 3 star hotel on the Hoy Park site in the cbd/beachfront zone. It is on Old fort road and directly opposite city lodge. Adjacent to this new hotel is a 5000m2 new office development.

Work has already begun. this was one of the sites the city put out to tender in 2006

Thanks Mike! You're an amazing source of wonderful development news!

Mike's the ferret-bomb of Durbs!

I do my best guys...just look at a construction site and give the people a call... i must admit that i do get some of my info from family friends that are directors in the large construction companies tho.

Oh the Hoy Park hotel is a glass structure i'm told. sadly i dont have a render yet but hopefully before too long

Gents, how is the Durban CBD doing? Joburg's CBD is buzzing with renovations and getting more cleaner and colourful. Im currently in CT for the jazz fes.

^^ pule we talk about it all the time in the durban thread. sure you'll find all you need in there. And it is doing well

Just an overview i did of Durban hotel developments up April 2007

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/Durbanhotelsupply-april07-1.jpg

mike where is S on timeball?

Great list! The Club Med will also be quite a biggie.

Great work buddy!

mike where is S on timeball?

^^That was an oversight.

Regards Club med, i left that out simply because we dont know its location. As such it could be up in Zululand and therefore way out of the Durban catchment zone. It could however be in Blythedale or in the Sibaya precinct which would then bring it into the catchment area.

All in all however i think it is a very good list. with over 2000 confirmed new rooms and 4400 odd likely in the next 5 years

Endless Horizons - 5 Star Boutique Hotel - Durban North

15 Suites
5 Star graded conferencing for up to 85 people
Fine Dining Restaurant
Rates from R1365 per person.

Umhlanga Rocks Drive View

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_14.jpg

Entrance

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/HOME/Home_BIG_pics_02.jpg

Check-in

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_21.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_24.jpg

Upstairs Lobby

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_10.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_20.jpg

Bar

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/restuarant/restaurant_BIG_pic_02.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_25.jpg

Restaurant

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_16.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_09.jpg

Pool Area

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_22.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_13.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/HOME/Home_BIG_pics_03.jpg

Rooms

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_01.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_02.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_05.jpg

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_11.jpg

Conferencing

http://www.endlesshorizon.co.za/images/gallery/gallery_19.jpg

OOOH this place is a hotel, I always for some reason thought it was a fancy old age home, cause everytime I drove past it, there were old, people sitting on the balcony facing the raod playing chess & that.

OOOH this place is a hotel, I always for some reason thought it was a fancy old age home, cause everytime I drove past it, there were old, people sitting on the balcony facing the raod playing chess & that.

Because they are the only ones who can afford it. :lol:

Just putting this article jerome posted in the durban thread.

Two of the express hotels for Durban already have threads... here are there links

Express by Holiday Inn coming soon

InterContinental Hotels is to open the first four of 25 new hotels in South Africa, called Express by Holiday Inn, they're going to be smart but fresh and situated in the right locations for people who want to combine business and pleasure.

Chris Gibbons:
A big announcement today from InterContinental Hotels Group, the world's most global hotel company which says it is to open four Express by Holiday Inn properties in South Africa.

The first four of 25 new hotels coming to the country. A major investment which also involves some local partners.

To tell us all about it we are joined on the line from Cape Town by Ewan Cameron who is InterContinental Hotels Group in Africa’s vice president of development.

Ewan welcome, I think the starting point is really Express by Holiday Inn. A brand we are not familiar with in South Africa — Holiday Inn we know very well of course — but Express by Holiday Inn, what are they about?

Ewan Cameron:
Good evening Chris. Express by Holiday Inn is really about a value offer, it’s smart, it’s fresh and it’s in the right locations for people who want to do business or enjoy it from a leisure point.

So Express is a hotel brand if you like, a very strong brand, actually the fastest growing hotel group in the world today on average — opening two a week. So in some respects it is a little bit of a surprise that it is not in South Africa already. We know South Africans love brands and we think the Express Holiday Inn in the hotel market will be very successful in South Africa.

Chris Gibbons:
It is what you call a limited service brand is that right?

Ewan Cameron:
Yes, we tend to focus on what we think the customer needs rather than adding lots of additional costs if you like into the customer's account, as well as to our own, and what that means is that we are focus on having a great night's sleep, we have an excellent start to the day and we make sure that the hotels are in the best locations they possibly can be.

So it is a value offer if you like that we are offering all that at a great price. So the customer wins and we think the brand wins because it can be in all the main travel nodes of Africa.

Chris Gibbons:
Right, now you are in Cape Town Ewan, that I understand is where the first of the four will be built. Where are the others going to be and then the rest of the roll out?

Ewan Cameron:
We are really just now beginning to understand the South African market. We have done a lot of research previously to this point if you like to tell us what the customers are looking for with regard to brand.

So you are right, we are going into Cape Town first, we are then following with Woodmead and Sandton, Pretoria and then we are going into Durban up into Umhlanga Ridge just north of the CBD. So the intention here is to cover the premier four business nodes from the beginning.

I think what you will find is a brand where people want to do business and where people want to spend some leisure time as well. So I think you will find we will build our stronger concentration around Cape Town, we will build a lot more in Durban, and in Pretoria we are lucky because we have a very strong business partner which is Easter Leisure, they have a strong pedigree in development and in operation.

And there is the ability to move very quickly in South Africa, you mentioned the number of 25 and that is because we are working with good strong local partners who know how to find good sites and based upon the research we are doing, we believe we will then find a site where we will want to stay.

Chris Gibbons:
Now the first four, the value of this investment, is R500-million. Is that right?

Ewan Cameron:
That's a lot of money, yes.

Chris Gibbons:
It certainly is isn't it? Then you multiply that up to 25 and suddenly a billion here and a billion there we are talking about real money aren't we?

Ewan Cameron:
We are indeed. But if you read the financial pages recently you will see in the last two or three years the hotel real estate has become very fashionable.

The banks seem to have woken up it, the developers seem to like it and you will see as we do a roll-out we are looking at a lot of new developments. We think there are great synergies between retail, hotels, entertainment and really adding value and giving the consumer a destination if you like. So even when you are travelling on business you always relax a bit and hotel should be part of that experience.

Chris Gibbons:
It sounds wonderful, I look forward to experiencing it, Express by Holiday Inn coming to Cape Town, coming to Sandton Woodmead, Pretoria Sunny Park and Umhlanga. I have been talking to Ewan Cameron InterContinental Hotels Group and Africa vice president of development.

http://business.iafrica.com/transcripts/851128.htm

Don't know if it's already been mentioned but I read that the Oyster Box is being refurbished into a 5 star hotel with 24 extra room being added on. With it's status as the grand lady of the Umhlanga beachfront it should be 5 stars!

Yeah, its now owned by the RED CORONATION group (they also own the 12 apostles in Cape town), which is a London based hotel group. It has been closed and will reopen at the end of 2008. The entire hotel is having a major yet sympathetic revamp that will take the hotel to 102 rooms at a 5 star rating (before it closed it was 3 star and 70 odd rooms)

I've seen some of the renders in the paper and it does look like it will be very tasteful revamp. The owners have ambitions of it being on a par with the 12 apostles hotel, high ambitions, but good to see the determination.

The revamp and construction is costing R155m

The revamp and construction is costing R155m

Wow..that's an expensive upgrade!

Good to hear. The 12 Apostles is an amazing place. Obviously some of that has to do with location, but the hotel offers some great amenities. (e.g., helicopter flips to the V&A!) Hopefully the Oyster Box can attract enough high rollers to offer equivalent amenities.

i would not say R155m is overly expensive considering that the entire hotel is being gutted. 2 additional floors are being added. an entire new spa is being built. the existing pool is being ripped out and a new infinity pool is to be installed. the hotel will have 2 restaurants, 1 in the gardens and 1 at the pooldeck....

I think the R155m is rather good value for all that. And if they want to reach their goal of being the premier east coast hotel, then they have to do it, for they will be facing the Beverly Hills next door, the fairmont at zimbali, the lodge at zimbali and some of the fantastic new hotels at the point.

Oyster Box probably has THE prime location in Umhlanga, with the main icon of Umhlanga Rocks, the light house, right in front of them. Good for them.

I went to a wedding there late last yerar and it was very run down in my opinion. It desperatly in need of a big ass renovation. but 155mil is not a lot considering there are 30 new keys and the rest of the property needs a serious upgrader

And especially not a lot of money if they hope to turn it into a truly luxurious place. I'm excited about this.

guess we are going to play the wait and see game. But if they are keeping the existing structure and revamping it, it surely is not the worlds most costly thing? I mean the new dev's near gateway are only costing R150m to build a brand new 8F building, plus 2 underground parking levels.

ya but mid range appartments and 5* hotel rooms are miles apart as far as finnishings are concerned. An average hotel room costs $200K

Guys i wonder if any of you can help me. GRID are working on the new hotel going up on the corner of Old Fort Road and Stanger Street on the Hoy Park site. However they do not reply to my emails and i cannot find any information on the hotel anywhere. can anyone find out what brand it is, design, height??? would be great.

there is also a commercial building going up next to it, and once again i have no info. i presume they both in the 4-6F range, but not sure.

planning dept of city council on old fort rd should provide info as its approved and U/C and they are the gardian sof the citys planning and as such should be accountable and transparent with the rate payere (ie stakeholdrs)

The Royal Palm in Umhlanga is to operated as a hotel by Three Cities Hotels according to an article I read in Now Media's Travel News Now dated last month.

The findle tower will house a 300 room 4 star hotel. at this point there is no information on the operator, for deals have not yet been signed, but it looks to be a far east operator

The Royal Palm in Umhlanga is to operated as a hotel by Three Cities Hotels according to an article I read in Now Media's Travel News Now dated last month.

Went on a walk around that hotel and it is fantastic inside! very chi chi

In Sunday's Tribune there was an article on international hotel chains and their growing interest in SA. It stated that Hyatt is planning 7 new hotels in SA over the next 5 years and Intercontinental are planning 4 new hotels (now that they are free from Southern Sun in SA, hence why there are new Holiday Inn's and Express's being built). Hyatt stated that KZN, Western Cape and Kruger were their focus, with potentially one additional hotel in Gauteng.

I heard that from an EX Hyatt bigwig, the no2 in the design side is a Saffer so they are keen in Chicago to come to SA

Hyatt is by far the best of the international chains , just above Four Seasons.
Just back from Grand Hyatt in cairo , right on the nIle. Had some cold ones on the 40th floor bar with spectacular views on the city.
We have poached a few Hyatt people recently and they know their shit when it comes to hotels

Hey, I dont know if anyone else saw this. But in the weekend of the July, Saturdays & Sundays paper had articles of "Seaton Deleval". Some rich Brit Hotel dude, he came to Durbs, to buy horses at Sibaya or something like that, but they never showed a picture of him, just his giant merc pullman which he must have flown down, coz it had his emblem on the side & also no one in SA owns a merc pullman.

^^ its an advertising campaign for something that is about to be launched shortly. But i have no idea what the launch thing is. all i know is that it is something to do with kzn.

Gents, are some of the buildings that are currently being renovated in the CBD gonna be turned into hotels?

no, at this stage there is no need for that as the royal and neighbouring albany serve that market. and with the beachfront and ICC so close there are also more prefered areas to stay, with views.

However a small boutique hotel has opened right near the ICC in a converted block of flats. looks rather nice from the outside. cant remember the name

I saw that new hotel conversion at the corner of Pine and Stanger Street(new name?). It does look very nice from the outside (it's an old art deco building). Hope they have paid as much attention to refurbishing the inside as it's in a prime location in regard to the ICC (it's actually closer to the ICC Arena than the Hilton).

Now Im seeing that Seaton Deleval advert on TV, its driving me nuts!!! I cant find anything about it on the net, plus they put an in last Sundays paper as well!!!

i know!! its a bloody long teaser campaign, most dont last as long as this

Since i mentioned this in the Durban discussion thread, i though it only appropiate to go into more detail here.

The Hoy park site is the first of the council released hotel sites to be developed.

Half of the site is a General Motors Dealership offering Chevrolet, Opel, Saab, Izuzu, Hummer and Cadilaic. This portion is well along and should be complete by November.

The other half of the site is a hotel development. As far as i am aware this is a Holiday Inn Express, however the developer would not give me 100% confirmation as they were still in negociations with Accor hotels and Protea. But it will more than likely be a HI Express.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/Hoyparkdevplan.jpg

Also in the Daily news article they mention a R350m hotel development on the Pavillion Site, one of 2 on the site (i take it will be the smaller on).

Other sites where the council are negociating with international hotel groups at present according to the article are: Sunkist beach (adjacent to suncoast on the north), Natal command (potion of northern corner opposite suncoast towers - this is with Taj Hotels), Hoy Park (as pointed out before - HI Express) and the ICC area (this one is to get underway shortly).

DB anymore on yours?

Thanks for the update. Are you referring to the Daily News article in today's Daily News on page 2? If so, what's this stuff about the tram system and billions in hotel development by 2010?

Cross-post from Durban board...

I got the article!!! Looks like the tram system is still on the cards for Durbs!!! Oh, and lots of new hotels....

-----------------------------

Major 2010 hotel plans for Durban

July 30 2007 at 08:10PM

By Heinz de Boer

Billions in new hotel investments and plans for an American-style street car (tram) transport system could be on the cards for Durban.

A delegation of city officials, including Deputy Mayor Logie Naidoo, last week confirmed the release of a series of new hotel sites throughout Durban in preparation for the 2010 World Cup, including a R350-million development near the existing Elangeni Hotel.

Details of the city's major hotel plans came as local officials hosted a high-powered business delegation from the American city of New Orleans, which is one of Durban's official sister cities.

Durban is hoping to learn valuable tourism lessons from New Orleans, which is one of America's top cultural, music and historical tourism destinations.

Naidoo has, meanwhile promised a totally revamped city for 2010, which will include a tram system linking the beachfront to the King Senzagakhona Stadium, hotels and the ICC.

The newly introduced people mover buses will give way to the tram.

The municipality has also unlocked 10 prime hotel sites, and is currently in discussions with large international hotel conglomerates to have them developed before 2010.

Among the sites is Hoy Park, which is currently under construction, and the former Natal Command base, which will also serve as a film studio.

Hotels at the Point waterfront will also be linked to hotel sites at Sunkist Beach, the military museum area and ICC.

"We are seeing good things happening in the city and it's our plan to have as many hotels ready by 2010 as possible. This is all part of a broader vision to rejuvenate the city and create a new energy in the economy.

"It's not only about one soccer semi-final, but about maximising the use of the World Cup and these facilities for the future," Naidoo said.

But while the city is gearing up to host what could be crowds of up to 450 000 people during 2010, the American delegation warned of South Africa's inadequate air transport system.

Speaking at a meeting last week, Ernest Kelly, of the South Africa Investment group based in New Orleans, said a critical lack of air seats bet-ween the USA and SA was damaging local tourism.

Kelly said SA, and Durban in particular, had the potential to attract the tourism business of at least 15 million affluent African Americans, who feel a "kinship" with the region.

The city will, however, also have to drastically alter its bylaws and regulations on entertainment hotspots if it hopes to emulate New Orleans, which is renowned for its epic street parties and outdoor entertainment culture.

Council has already identified Florida Road as one of the inner city roads that could host this type of street party experience.

"The challenge is to get people to come back a second time. But groups have a tough time getting here and I hope discussions with the airlines will solve this," Kelly said.


This article was originally published on page 2 of Daily News on July 30, 2007

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=124&art_id=vn20070730095745418C377674

I mostly like these part of the article.

"The city will, however, also have to drastically alter its bylaws and regulations on entertainment hotspots if it hopes to emulate New Orleans, which is renowned for its epic street parties and outdoor entertainment culture. "


And if they bring more entertainment, then one doesn't have to wait for a major event to happen in Durbs but can drive or fly there anytime.

I really wanted us to be like Miami, but hey New Orleans aint bad, Mardi Gra!!!

^^ we can easily be a good mix of both...the beach culture of miami, with cafes and the like and the new orleans vibe in the more inland areas of cbd and morningside. closing florida road at nite will do wonders

on the launch team of a massive new hotel resort that will blow your nads. check the papers over the next few weeks...and watch the water. The Marriott is small fry compared to this, and this has a beach!

come on!!! i hate people giving just teasers! I suppose you cant tell tho. but very interesting and exciting!! Where in Durban is it? i'm thinking either umdloti or point... correct?? Welcome to the boards!

fully bru- tell us about yourself in shabeen intro thread.

Sounds intresting and can you say if its an existing brand or a new operator entering SA?

For gods sake, more teasers! but hey if its this big then I suppose I can wait, but yeh, cant you tell us where about it is???

Oh & welcome mate:D

tenders for the old miliatary musuem/pavillion site are about to be launched. there have been behind the seens talks from the city with 3 major international operators for the site. the city wants nothing less than a 5 star hotel and a top retail development, and height is no problem.

What you mean height is no problem? how high are we talking here?

well they will allow up to the highest building in the area and possibly more if it has no shadow impact on the beach...ie: a thin tower

but the cities own height restrictions are capped at 120m but as mike said its about the sun study and what the shadows (morinng behind and afternoon over beach). there ius also the option of purchasing airrights of an adjasent building that hasent maximised its full height potential ( its what Mont Blance did in 1985).

I would think a 120m tower would be sufficient (30F) in the area but cant be in isolation and needs to be part of a bigger mixed use development with possibly some retail in the podum and seperate hospitality and resi towers

on the launch team of a massive new hotel resort that will blow your nads. check the papers over the next few weeks...and watch the water. The Marriott is small fry compared to this, and this has a beach!

any more news on this?????

Protea Hotel Umhlanga has applied for its floor area ratio (FAR) to be increased from 1,5 to 2,4... this will accomodate its big expansion.

Giles please explain what this 0,9 jump will mean in terms of extra capacity.

any more news on this?????

heya china's. Been a bit delayed with a tree hugger. won our case in court and they now liable to pay our costs, naaaaiice.

Its a new operator to SA that has big 5 star resorts in the east. i will be able to release info when things are finalised and are allowed to be in the public domain.

fully out

5* operator in the eat? bigger than Marriot? Taj, Amari, who else??? Orientel?

whats arami?

east is Shangri-la, Dusit, Taj,Banyan tree, Anantara etc

^^ any preferred one giles?

whats arami?

5* Thai hotel operator, when I went there last year, the hotels manager was saying that they were looking at venturing out of Thailand, into Malaysia etc.. he said maybe SA with 2010.

http://www.amari.com/

^^ any preferred one giles?

If Taj doesnt have a city site my money would be on them along with Banyan tree but I think BT is a bit too high end for North coast.

Also Oberoi (indian luxuary brand) is seriously expanding and it could be a natural fit for them

Taj still have the rights for the Durban city hotel on the miliatary base site next to Suncoast. They may however opt out with the court delays as they wanted to be running by 2010

Forgot about Oberoi, could be them, saw on a magazine program that they were looking at coming to SA.

Stayed in Tajs & Oberois all over India, and for my money, they're even with any of the best hotel chains in the world. A 5* Indian place can compete toe-to-toe with the best of Bangkok or Hong Kong. Either would be a great addition to KZN. So would Shangri-La, but I haven't stayed in one of those in years.

Coastlands????????

^^ Coastlands? I'm totally lost. Are they the Eastern hotel operator?

na its where DB hangs out

eeeyy ou serve a good bunny? lol

na its where DB hangs out

NO

eeeyy ou serve a good bunny? lol

nah, you thinking of Brittania,

Got inside word of a Hotel coming up on Walnut Rd, 13F, Coastlands.....Sssh I didnt tell you ;)

What is coastlands though??

This the new ICC one on the portion of the DEC site? Glad to here its finally nearing the construction phase, has been a long process.

Anymore juicy juicy?

Coastlands is the name of the Hotel I think, but isnt there one at the bottom of West Str near the beach??

Nah was speaking to a friend who works for the Architects who are desiging this one, I asked him to send me renders when they are done.

cool thanx!

come on DB you are a local down the end of West st there by Gilespie im sure?

Nice find though mate, looking foward to seeing all these new hotels finally make it to go

I have the design brief for the ICC hotel. It has to follow the design theme of the hilton and Arena. The entire exterior has to be glass encased, with a 2-3F podium section. Plus 3000m2 - 5000m2 of conferencing space.

cant wait to see the design mate

come on DB you are a local down the end of West st there by Gilespie im sure?

Nice find though mate, looking foward to seeing all these new hotels finally make it to go

Nah, you can find me in Springfield at Teazer's, Lolly knows how to run a joint ;)

Any more idea on the "coastlands" thingy? is that not the consortium?

http://i24.tinypic.com/2crwsb9.jpg

http://i24.tinypic.com/10pobb4.jpg

is that the ICC hotel?? Rather plain, was expecting much more glass tho

This is the Coastlands one, not mine, it is rather plain, but its got a modern fancy look to it. Dont worry, this is the old design, not sure what the new design looks like, just giving you an idea where the location will be.

oh ok...so this one is one the ICC site? I'm sure the design has changed for they were told they had to have a mirrored glass exterior to match the ICC and Hilton.

Any news on your one?

nope :(

Eish. Talk about incongruous. It'd look fine - somewhere else.

http://www.abvent.com/community/galeries/images/1191510023.jpg

whewre exaqclty is this one guys, seem to have lost my bearings?
maybe someone can do a google earth and show all the sites as Im getting confused with all these new hotels.

Thanks sweeties

Okay, firstly, never ever call me a sweety!

this one is going on the ICC site, which seems abit odd, but anyway.

http://i24.tinypic.com/de9or7.jpg

^^ yeah that was one of the location options for a hotel. the site opposite this one (on the DEC site) is also available for a hotel, so two could be facing each other there.

Also the latest render you put up looks rather different from the first, and much better, more sleek

Ok those are the 2 sites opoosite eachother on walnut rd but are there any others as I thought there was a 18F jobbie comming up there?

^^ thats on the site opposite this one.

DB yours is also like 18F in stanger street??