Here are the top 50 as of 3/31/06:

http://www.ffiec.gov/nicpubweb/nicweb/Top50Form.aspx


Woo! Birmingham still has 3 in the top 50... and soon they'll all be in the top 30 after the merger is complete this month.

Too bad we lost our largest, SouthTrust, last year :(

My bank, Scotiabank (I have an M&T account as well) has $314Billion in assets, so what's your point Justin :baeh3:
which would make it the 8th largest bank in the US

and M&T is still high up on the list, although apparently not a top 20 US bank like everyone thought. oh well, it will creep up there soon enough.

and when did HSBC North America change their HQ to PROSPECT HEIGHTS, IL? or at least thats where it says its located by this top 50 list you posted.

Birmingham is the place to be man. Its just hoppin!

Just to keep the happiness alive...I'm gonna post this photo just to burn those who think Buffalo is dead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/Citysky/Buffalo%20Main%20Street/126_2616.jpg

it's not a "great" photo...but it shows we are not as bad as the blind mellon heads might assume.

Buffalo is in your mind what you have heard, not what you know.

My bank, Scotiabank (I have an M&T account as well) has $314Billion in assets, so what's your point Justin :baeh3:
which would make it the 8th largest bank in the US

and M&T is still high up on the list, although apparently not a top 20 US bank like everyone thought. oh well, it will creep up there soon enough.

and when did HSBC North America change their HQ to PROSPECT HEIGHTS, IL? or at least thats where it says its located by this top 50 list you posted.


yea, whats up with the Prospect Heights stuff here? HSBC was Buffalo based I thought.

My bank, Scotiabank (I have an M&T account as well) has $314Billion in assets, so what's your point Justin :baeh3:
which would make it the 8th largest bank in the US

and M&T is still high up on the list, although apparently not a top 20 US bank like everyone thought. oh well, it will creep up there soon enough.

and when did HSBC North America change their HQ to PROSPECT HEIGHTS, IL? or at least thats where it says its located by this top 50 list you posted.

Well Canada has what, six banks? Oooooooooo. ;)

As for HSBC, yes, the primary HQ is in Illinois now, but most executive positions are in New York City. HSBC is not based in Buffalo -- most operations moved in 1999.

Birmingham is the place to be man. Its just hoppin!

Yup. If only Buffalo could do what they're doing with their historic highrises...

Our historic highrises are office towers. What are we supposed to be doing to them? Kicking offices out for residential demand?

Shouldn't that be highrise (singular)

Our historic highrises are office towers. What are we supposed to be doing to them? Kicking offices out for residential demand?

yeah basically we should...especially the Liberty Tower, turn that residential and increase the demand for quality office space, which could eventually lead to new scrapers being built.

^^ I suppose that's a good idea, but considering Liberty was just renovated (1999?) and currently stands as one of the most wired and high-tech buildings in WNY, I don't think that one will be going anywhere.

Better choices - How's the Rand? Statler? Empty space in the BAC building? Main-Seneca?

Heck it works in SimCity - raze your entire CBD (or a neighborhood), shock demand, and you'll get a nice tall. Which consequently will abandon when the demand re-stabilizes.

Well Canada has what, six banks? Oooooooooo. ;)

As for HSBC, yes, the primary HQ is in Illinois now, but most executive positions are in New York City. HSBC is not based in Buffalo -- most operations moved in 1999.
Ummm not exactly sparky... this is lifted from the most recent HSBC 10k filing with the SEC -

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/83246/000116923206001386/d67306_10-k.txt

Item 2. Properties
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The principal executive offices of HUSI are located at 452 Fifth Avenue, New
York, New York 10018, which is owned by HBUS. The main office of HBUS is located
at 1105 N. Market Street, Wilmington, Delaware 19801. The principal executive
offices of HBUS are located at One HSBC Center, Buffalo, New York 14203, in a
building under a long-term lease. HBUS has more than 380 other banking offices
in New York State located in 44 counties, fifteen branches in Florida, eleven
branches in California, four branches in New Jersey, two branches in
Pennsylvania and one branch each in Oregon, Washington State, Delaware and
Washington D.C. Approximately 34% of these offices are located in buildings
owned by HBUS and the remaining are located in leased quarters. In addition,
there are branch offices and locations for other activities occupied under
various types of ownership and leaseholds in states other than New York, none of
which are materially important to the respective activities. HBUS also owns
properties in: Montevideo, Uruguay; Punta del Este, Uruguay; and Buenos Aires,
Argentina.


BTW the only thing that changed in 1999 was the name. The bank has been controlled by HSBC since the 80's. The Holding Company is run out of NYC and the Bank itself is still run out of Buffalo and this has been the case since at least 1970. This is an anomaly in the industry since the holding co and bank are usually headquartered in the same city such as is the case with Buffalo based M&T Bank, N.A. and M&T Bank Corporation (it's holding company formerly known as First Empire State Corporation).

I suppose that's a good idea, but considering Liberty was just renovated (1999?) and currently stands as one of the most wired and high-tech buildings in WNY, I don't think that one will be going anywhere.


Yeah good thinking, it is in a prime business district location.


Better choices - How's the Rand? Statler? Empty space in the BAC building? Main-Seneca?


those are definitely good choices.

Ummm not exactly sparky... this is lifted from the most recent HSBC 10k filing with the SEC -

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/83246/000116923206001386/d67306_10-k.txt

Item 2. Properties
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The principal executive offices of HUSI are located at 452 Fifth Avenue, New
York, New York 10018, which is owned by HBUS. The main office of HBUS is located
at 1105 N. Market Street, Wilmington, Delaware 19801. The principal executive
offices of HBUS are located at One HSBC Center, Buffalo, New York 14203, in a
building under a long-term lease. HBUS has more than 380 other banking offices
in New York State located in 44 counties, fifteen branches in Florida, eleven
branches in California, four branches in New Jersey, two branches in
Pennsylvania and one branch each in Oregon, Washington State, Delaware and
Washington D.C. Approximately 34% of these offices are located in buildings
owned by HBUS and the remaining are located in leased quarters. In addition,
there are branch offices and locations for other activities occupied under
various types of ownership and leaseholds in states other than New York, none of
which are materially important to the respective activities. HBUS also owns
properties in: Montevideo, Uruguay; Punta del Este, Uruguay; and Buenos Aires,
Argentina.


BTW the only thing that changed in 1999 was the name. The bank has been controlled by HSBC since the 80's. The Holding Company is run out of NYC and the Bank itself is still run out of Buffalo and this has been the case since at least 1970. This is an anomoly in the industry since the holding co and bank are usually headquartered in the same city such as is the case with Buffalo based M&T Bank, N.A. and M&T Bank Corporation (it's holding company formerly known as First Empire State Corporation).


The Wilmington Headquaters is a paper office. It is for tax reasons only. There are thousands of companies that are "officially" headquartered there but not really. The reference to the Chicago area office is a mistake. It is referring to headquaters of a Chicago area lending complany that was bought out by HSBC. London and then NYC and then Buffalo is the chain of command for the American HSBC bank.

I knew the top jobs were in NYC and that they use Delaware as a tax shelter (like Disney, among other companies) but still thought HSBC had important operations in Buffalo since it employs 5,000 people. After all it was Marine Midland that was purchased to become HSBC NA.
but I digress. and btw Jerome, DT works for them now.

weird, DT and bjfan were talking about this the other week:

City Hall getting new look
Business First of Buffalo - 6:53 AM EDT Friday
by James Fink
Business First

Buffalo City Hall is getting a much deserved facelift.

Mayor Byron Brown said the first phase of a $3.9 million project to repair, rehabilitate and restore the exterior masonry at City Hall is underway.

That's the good news.

The bad news is the observation deck on the building's 28th floor will be closed until the first phase is completed sometime this fall. The deck is a popular spot with visitors as it offers a panoramic view of Lake Erie and the city. On clear days, Niagara Falls' mist is visible from the deck.

The first phase will begin at the building's 15th floor and move upwards from there. The work includes repairs to the building's terra cotta and sandstone.

The building has suffered from weather exposure including harsh winter winds off of Lake Erie. The exposure has caused areas of loose or unsecured stone and terra cotta.

"The building needs to undergo this facelift, so that future generations can appreciate this building for years to come," Brown said.

© American City Business Journals Inc. All rights reserved.

I knew the top jobs were in NYC and that they use Delaware as a tax shelter (like Disney, among other companies) but still thought HSBC had important operations in Buffalo since it employs 5,000 people. After all it was Marine Midland that was purchased to become HSBC NA.
but I digress. and btw Jerome, DT works for them now.
must be a teller... not that there is anything wrong with that. Steel's chain of command is the correct one and the Bank's SEC filings back that up. And yes Buffalo is still their largest employment center. I happen to have a brother that also works at the Buffalo HQ in finance. He is the one that sent me the link I posted. Anyhow nuff said on this topic.

Buffalo City Hall is getting a much deserved facelift...
That's good news, the building does look quite worn when you compare it to pictures even just 10-20 years ago. Didn't they have a contractor come in a few years ago and scale the building, removing loose bricks, etc? I would imagine they'd have a pretty good idea of what needs fixing.

Speaking of City Hall and residential conversions, isn't half of that building used essentially for records storage? I read somewhere that most of the offices in the upper portion of the tower are just stacked to the ceiling with papers. Seems to me, clear out the tower section, replace the elevators, and remodel, and you'd have the most "prestigious" home address in the city.

Not sure that I'd want to have the City as a landlord, or that the City should even be in the business of renting, but just a thought...

Our historic highrises are office towers. What are we supposed to be doing to them? Kicking offices out for residential demand?

Yeah, historic highrises with astronomical vacancy rates... Once the the occupants' leases lapse, convert 'em. Then that would lead to demand for new office space. Get what I'm saying? ;)

Shouldn't that be highrise (singular)

Eh, more Southern 'ignunce :D Birmingham has three pre-war skyscrapers over 300 feet with several more right under the 300 mark... All have (or are in the process) of going residential. I almost bought a unit in the tallest (City Federal) but I had to move up here :(

---

Jerome, go away. I'm not a teller - I work in One HSBC downtown in Investment Services. Geez, I've actually got a university degree. I'm aware of tax shelters in Delaware, the offices in NYC, and the HQ in Prospect Heights.

Again, the headquarters IS in Illiniois.

http://www.hsbc.com/hsbc/about_hsbc/international-networks/americas/united-states-of-america


As for City Hall, fan-fucking-tastic. Wonder if they'll get rid of the horrid looking window AC units?

Ok so HSBC has a lot of different companies. This web page says the actual Bank is Buffalo, The holding company is in Chicago Suburbs and NYC is not mentioned

http://www.hsbc.com/hsbc/contact_us#northamerica


I thought DT was a bell boy at the Holiday Inn

The holding company is the parent company of all HSBC operations in NA.

The bank's "contact us" option is still listed in Buffalo because they retained Marine Midland's customer care operations here.

As for hotels, I'd LOVE to go back into hotel management... but alas, like I've said before, there are no quality convention oriented hotels for me to work at in Buffalo :(

As for City Hall, fan-fucking-tastic. Wonder if they'll get rid of the horrid looking window AC units?
Someone has their panties in a bunch...

I wouldn't be adverse to removing window AC units on any building, however, let alone a signature landmark one.

What ever happened to the "natural AC" that the building was designed with, you know the air ducts built into the back side that essentially created a wind tunnel effect and essentially did a pretty good job cooling the place down? Though I suppose with computers nowadays, that's probably not good enough.

Nah, I'm not pissy - I just think it's a crime that one of the most beautiful government buildings in America is in such disarray.

Ah, just the way you "said" it made it sound that way.

It is pretty bad, but when you think of it, that building, beautiful as it may be, is through and through symbolic of everything government in this area. Hulking, poorly maintained, shoddy construction, etc.

Now at least the Rath Building is honest. It comes right out and says "I'm ugly, oversized, and disgusting. Deal with it."

If I had money and power, that eyesore would have been gone yesterday.

Be glad they've taken better care of City Hall than they have Central Terminal.

Jerome, go away. I'm not a teller - I work in One HSBC downtown in Investment Services. Geez, I've actually got a university degree. I'm aware of tax shelters in Delaware, the offices in NYC, and the HQ in Prospect Heights.

Again, the headquarters IS in Illiniois.



So I guess they just lied to the Federal Government on the SEC 10K form that was filed in February of this year. I guess you should be a whistleblower then.

BTW glad to see that they are hiring tellers with degrees = shoud help to keep the drawers from being over or short.

^ hahahahaha

So I guess they just lied to the Federal Government on the SEC 10K form that was filed in February of this year. I guess you should be a whistleblower then.

BTW glad to see that they are hiring tellers with degrees = shoud help to keep the drawers from being over or short.


Ugh, living near Love Canal really warped your mind, hasn't it?

OK, I'm wrong. Not only is the North American HQ for HSBC in Buffalo, the ENTIRE operation from London is moving to Western New York! HSBC officials will be boarding up their offices at Canary Wharf on Monday morning and thousands of employees will be boarding BA 777s (since we'll now have daily nonstop BUF-LGW/LHR routes) to fly to the BNIA so they can start work early Tuesday morning.

This, in addition to Exxon-Mobil, Citigroup, BP, Bayer AG, and other multi-national firms, will all be relocating to the greater Buffalo area.

...and don't knock me for having a degree -- this area has hemorrhaged enough people with higher education already!

Geesh, no need to be that facetious.

As if having Exxon-Mobil would help. Would spur a few multi-million dollar homes in Clarence or Elma, but that's about it. They reinvest sooo much of their earnings.

Geesh, no need to be that facetious.

My "people" can be catty at times.. it's just how it is :D


I don't know why I've even been arguing this with Jerome though - it's clear as day where operations are based, though HSBC still has a very large presence in Buffalo. Oh well... let some believe what they wish. Delusions of grandeur are fun.

I just wonder what will happen the day Wachovia buys M&T... ;) Betcha $5 it'll be in less than five years.

HSBC is HQ'd in london

Hi Jman, welcome to 10 posts ago :tongue3:

lol.
changez le subjet

in other news, Robert Wegman died. That's two of WNY's rich, well-liked Rob's dying too close together. Robert Rich and Robert Wegman. 2006 is a sad year for losing two of WNY's top and most respected business patriarchs.

Ugh, living near Love Canal really warped your mind, hasn't it?

OK, I'm wrong. Not only is the North American HQ for HSBC in Buffalo, the ENTIRE operation from London is moving to Western New York! HSBC officials will be boarding up their offices at Canary Wharf on Monday morning and thousands of employees will be boarding BA 777s (since we'll now have daily nonstop BUF-LGW/LHR routes) to fly to the BNIA so they can start work early Tuesday morning.

This, in addition to Exxon-Mobil, Citigroup, BP, Bayer AG, and other multi-national firms, will all be relocating to the greater Buffalo area.


And Microsoft...Unless they get a better deal from Birmingham

that reply was lame

Hi Jman, welcome to 10 posts ago :tongue3:


but HSBC is hq'd london

Yes, yes it is.

but HSBC is hq'd london

yeah...but we were debating about the North American HQ...it's a little unclear where the HQ here is because apparently they claim it is in other places to be under tax shelters.

I don't know why I've even been arguing this with Jerome though - it's clear as day where operations are based, though HSBC still has a very large presence in Buffalo. Oh well... let some believe what they wish. Delusions of grandeur are fun.


Bro, Jerome got it off of HSBC's tax forms!!!!!!!!!!

Right -- my information comes from HSBC as well (Hi, employee). But, if you will, read again... the tax filing never mentions "headquarters."


"The principal executive offices of HUSI are located at 452 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10018, which is owned by HBUS. The main office of HBUS is locatedat 1105 N. Market Street, Wilmington, Delaware 19801. The principal executive offices of HBUS are located at One HSBC Center, Buffalo, New York 14203, in a building under a long-term lease."

They're all under the umbrella of HSBC NA in Prospect Heights, IL.

The chain of command goes as such:

Prospect Heights
New York City (90% of banking decisions made here)
Buffalo
Wilmington (paper HQ)

Sorry, Buffalo - but don't fret -- it's not a bad thing. You still have close to 5,000 jobs here that are HSBC related... At least it wasn't a Wachovia style merger where 80% of the employees were moved to Charlotte.

You guys will see that soon enough with M&T.

Again, this says what I'm saying:

http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/3/personal/inside/about

HSBC Bank USA, N.A.

HSBC Bank USA, N.A. offers its 3 million customers access to global markets and services. The Bank provides a full range of commercial banking products and services to individuals, corporations, institutions and governments, through its personal financial services, private banking, commercial banking and corporate investment banking and markets segments.

The Bank is also an international dealer in derivative instruments and has mortgage banking and brokerage operations.

With 14,000 employees, HSBC has nearly 400 branches in New York State, as well as 11 branches in Florida, six in California, and one branch each in Delaware, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Washington State and Washington, D.C. The Bank's holding company, HSBC USA Inc., is headquartered in New York City. The headquarters of HSBC North America Holdings Inc. is Prospect Heights, Illinois.

About HSBC North America Holdings

HSBC North America Holdings Inc., the holding company for all of HSBC's U.S. and Canadian businesses, including the former Household International businesses, is one of the top 10 financial services organizations in the U. S. with assets approaching $300 billion. The company's businesses serve more than 60 million customers in five key areas: personal financial services, consumer finance, commercial banking, private banking, and corporate investment banking and markets. Financial products and services are offered under the HSBC, HFC and Beneficial brands. For more information, visit www.hsbcusa.com/ourcompany.

---

CASE CLOSED. Now, if you thick-headed NYers don't get it, you won't ever.

Good God give it up.

Like I give two shits where a bank, which provides jobs in my city, be it Buffalo or Dubai, is headquartered. Not every city has the headquarters of everything; nor can they. As if it affects my daily life. Sit back for a second and think about it - the impact of these things, while surely important to some degree, are often overstated. So the CEO doesn't live here. Big whoop. One less potential SEC investigation. (Though I must admit those can be satisfying, visions of that skeleton John Rigas cuffed were priceless.)

DT - You may want to lay off the constant put-downs, it's very pretentious and condescending. Any possible defensive mechanisms aside, it's human nature to get defensive when someone comes around strutting around talking shit about your place. Perhaps if you can't understand it in the context of Buffalo, perhaps take a look at our days' most prominent story, Iraq, and the insurgency. A bit extreme and facetious myself, but that's the gist of it.

As I've said before to make the analogy, you go strap a gun on yourself and go strutting around some other man's country, you better expect trouble 'cause it's what you're gonna get.

Not to use this tired phrase, but you're either with us or against us. Men don't sit on the fence. It hurts. Please decide.

Well, I hate being wrong... especially when debating someone like Jerome ;) I never tire - maybe that's why I was my high school's debate champion :D

Oh well, I win... intarweb superiority is mine!! I r0x0r!!11111

But seriously - I think it's great that HSBC still has jobs here - as it's been mentioned, I work for them. Have I ever denied that it's a good thing? The big boys just aren't here anymore.

And please, no Bush phrases :puke:

So M&T is moving to Birmingham?

Oh well, I win... intarweb superiority is mine!!
Perhaps, but it all depends on what the definition of is is. :)

One word: Strategery.

The real question is: Is our banks leaving?

So M&T is moving to Birmingham?

Nope. I say Charlotte.

Have you seen the Wachovia billboards popping up around here lately? They'll move in so quickly that it'll make your head spin, and before you know it, the M&T marquees will be coming down for "Walk-over-ya." Mark my words.

It won't be a pretty merger, either. Wachovia cut 2,500 jobs from SouthTrust's 6,000 workforce in Birmingham last year when they took over. Most of those positions moved to CLT.

BTW, I've been on edge this week because the final walk-through for the house we're buying is tomorrow... the closing is on the Wednesday, April 26th.

It makes me sick thinking about it.


I'm... going... to be here... FOREVER!!!

:cry:

:goodnight

Ummm, since when has anybody been forced to live here, much less forever? Of all places? Why people with the means to leave choose to live somewhere they don't like is beyond me. It's like bitching about gas prices when you drive a vehicle that gets 0 city, 1 highway. One would think that "in this greatest, richest nation of all time" (as we like to say), that there would always be something better for you.

Check the population figures in case you forgot.

Well, love makes you stupid. It's been two years so far and I still feel like it's all so new (yay, I'm cheesy!).

“The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance; the wise grows it under his feet.”

-- James Oppenheim

But, be that as it may, it still won't stop me from wanting some new highrise and quality urban development, upscale shopping, a luxury hotel, and other amenities in Buffalo (and me bitching about it) ;)

Well, love makes you stupid. It's been two years so far and I still feel like it's all so new (yay, I'm cheesy!).

“The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance; the wise grows it under his feet.”

-- James Oppenheim

But, be that as it may, it still won't stop me from wanting some new highrise and quality urban development, upscale shopping, a luxury hotel, and other amenities in Buffalo (and me bitching about it) ;)

We all know that Birmingham is "the shit" and that Buffalo is just plain old shit but since your final walk through at your Cheektowaga patio home is tomorrow maybe you can cancel the deal and buy a house in a real city neighborhood off Elmwood instead of complaining about it so much. I would be pissy all the time if I had to live next to the airport too,

steel, why do you pick on Birmingham exclusively? Why not Atlanta? Nashville? Dallas? Cincinnati?

I would LOVE to live in the inner city (remember, I previously lived in an 18 story art deco tower downtown), but it's not possible now. BTW, I'm six miles from the airport, and even if I lived closer, I wouldn't mind -- I for one LOVE all things to do with planes.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=North+Seine+Drive+Cheektowaga+NY+to+BUF&ll=42.90137,-78.74279&spn=0.115435,0.2314&om=1

He has a point... Moving into Cheektowaga isn't exactly helping the city's case in getting those things. That being said, that's not a bad area of Cheektowaga. If I had to live there, that's the only "region" of the town I would choose myself. Now whether or not giving out your address (assuming that is) is a good idea, well I'm not one to judge.

Sure I'd like to see all those things too (well I couldn't care less about "upscale" shopping), but bitching about it sure isn't going to help anything. They will eventually come, even if it takes saturation in other markets. Like death and taxes.

Once these things do eventually show up, however, I hope it doesn't change the character of the city; though I doubt that can be avoided (and I'm not saying Buffalo's character is any different or more special than any other's currently being whitewashed). I also don't care about rapid growth, it doesn't help my life one iota. (I'll be selfish when I want to.) Modest, sustainable growth is all we need.

Plus you get all these out-of-towners moving in thinking they know how everything should be run. I got that when I moved to NH and bitched about it there, and I'm sure you can ask just about any native southerner what they think of us Yankees.

Native Southerner? There aren't any left :tongue3:

We could use some new blood though... perhaps it would bring in new ideas from "outside the box," so to speak.

Although... maybe it's not needed. I know for a fact that Buffalonians can build nice "new" cities -- just look at we've done down in Charlotte :D

As for my address, well, it will be made public record in the newspaper on Thursday, so people will know if they pick up the Buffalo News.

Although... maybe not. I do know for a fact that Buffalonians can build nice "new" cities -- just look at we've done down in Charlotte :D

Yeah and they're descendants of people who built a nice city here and look what they left it to turn into.

I'm telling you, the second things start turning sour in Charlotte, you watch. And they will. I say it all the time, people's attitudes and behaviors don't just change because they move. Otherwise they'd forget why they moved instead of perennially harping on it. Especially if it's "genetic" or "inherited" as it's often referred to in the case of current Buffalonians. Hell hath no fury.... It ain't gonna be pretty, I actually feel bad for them already. They have no idea what's in store for them.

Besides, if the city is made entirely of ex-Buffalonians (which it is not), would it not follow that there is a certain population of Polish descent in Charlotte? I rest my case. I'd start setting off the warning bells right now. Their best work was our East Side, but I'm sure they'd be willing to prove themselves again someday.

Ooooo, you're right. The Polish have doomed Charlotte.

:D

...and I promise, even though we're buying a house in Cheektowaga, it WILL NOT be decorated according to the natives' sense of style. You know what I'm talking about... something like this:

http://www.pussycatmagazine.com/archives/homedecor/images/retrohouses/green3.jpg

http://www.lileks.com/institute/motel/purp1x.jpg

How Polish :sleepy:

Betcha never thought of it that way before lol.

BTW, doesn't Wachovia sound Polish? Does to me (or some other form of Eastern European). Not saying it actually is or not, it just has that sound. Now if BoA used to be known as the Polish-American Bank (think German-American Bank, aka Liberty Bank)... Well suffice it to say their fate is sealed.

LOL the "natives" and their style.

Were the Dyngus Day festivities to your liking? According to the News, some groups are trying to market nationwide as a "cultural tourism" event. Lucky you, right in the middle of it!

Wachovia IS a weird Eastern European name -- you're right! I never thought about it that way - no wonder their HQ building is so tacky!


Re: Dyngus Day - that's just scary. God help me :eek2:

Well, to give them credit, at least their HQ looks like any generic po-mo office tower in Anytown, USA, and isn't like bright yellow with violet trim or something. Unless the accompaniments inside are decorated as lavishly as those in that house you pictured (that first one is... well.... ghastly). After all, you can't judge a book...

As for Dyngus Day, before my girlfriend and I moved back here (well me anyways, she's not from here), whenever she would do something stupid I'd call her a "dyngus". (It's been used on the Simpsons as well.) Needless to say she'd no idea where I got that from. Ahhh, baptisms by fire...

Are those more pictures from Westin Hotel?

Ick I would pray not. Something that lovely doesn't belong in a hotel, it belongs in my dream house lol. Needs more of a pussy willows, polka dot and accordian theme IMHO, though.

Just where are those from? (if you know?)

(The site author is apparently in MSP, I have to admit I share his pain re:Fargo 1950s.)

steel, why do you pick on Birmingham exclusively? Why not Atlanta? Nashville? Dallas? Cincinnati?


He (and everyone else) picks on Birmingham exclusively because in every other post you talk about how great Birmingham is...ur the biggest B-ham homer ever. If you want to struggle with the availability of indoor plumbing, go back to Alabama...but if you want to stay in a state/city that has moved into the 21st century then stay here in the Empire State.

But no one here has ever been to Birmingham, so how can they make any judgement? At least I've lived in both -- and neither is my home. Good 'ol Cincy is :D I just love what is being done with the historic architecture downtown and was involved in the historic preservation movement in the city (I was even on NPR for my efforts :tongue3: )

As for the FABULOUS decor, here you go... ENJOY!

http://www.lileks.com/institute/motel/index.html

i have been to both birminghams...and HSBC is HQ'd in london. :yes:

^haha jman. not too much news going on in this thread, just bickering. lol

anyways, did you ppl see this on buffalo rising?
http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/upload/2006/04/thegraniteworks-thumb.jpg



The Granite Works Offers Customized Comfort

by queenseyes

Granite Works Slideshow

The Granite Works project has hit the road running. Ben Obletz of First Amherst Development Group and a leader of the project's team was kind enough to offer BRO an inside glimpse of the (844-64) Main Street luxury apartments. The row of four buildings, dating from between the 1850s to the 1890s, has been joined together to offer tenants freedom to move from one structure to another through a number of brick-arched corridors.

The units are being finished at the moment and will soon be available as livable quarters starting in July. Each living space is unique and follows the original lines of the building. Ben has taken every measure to provide residents with the utmost comforts possible. The 28 (mostly two bedroom) apartments could not have been possible without the addition of a 14,000 sq' addition that was built off the back of the building. Some of the amenities include, sound proofed insulation, gated private parking, basement storage and appliances. In addition to the living units, there is also 4600 sq' of commercial space on the lower level (there has already been a high interest level in these spaces).

Cost per unit ranges from $895 for a single up to $1895 for a luxury two-level loft. The views afforded from the interior spaces are incredible. The expansive windows take every advantage of the high ceilings, which allows natural sunlight to flood through the building. The Granite Works building overlooks the stunning Hauptman-Woodward medical research institute as well as the Scientology building. It is a stone's throw from Buffalo’s Theater District, Allentown, Ulrich's and the light rail. For further information, see The Granite Works website. Apartments are available for showing by appointment by calling 716-839-1400.

Thanks to Westcoast Perspective for providing many of the details.

click this to see the slideshow! (http://www.buffalorising.com/slideshows/granitedemo/slideshow.html)

Yeah, those are awesome. Reminds me of this development in Detroit (which has been a smash hit):

http://www.loftsofmerchantsrow.com/

From this...

http://www.detroitbuildingtrades.org/newspapr/MerchantsRow.jpg

to this!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/crazyarchitect19/2005/IMG_6107.jpg

I Don't know why you people are saying Erie County NY is having a modest increase in population? according to the US Census from 2000 to 2005 Erie County almost lost 20,000 people in the last 5 years alone.
Population: 2000 950,296
2005 930,703
www.census.gov
go to population finder and type in Erie County NY

I saw a story on CNN last night saying that the new Census was out and the
areas losing the most population was every NY upstate City metro area and the biggest population increases were Florida, Nevada, Arizona, Carolinas, Virginia, California & Illinois

i have been to both birminghams...and HSBC is HQ'd in london. :yes:

yeah, when i was in London a couple years ago, the HSBC logo was everywhere! More so than in Buffalo.

WOW, beautiful development for downtown B-lo, would love to call that place home if I was from Buffalo. Will be a very good addition once it is completed. Especially like the brick finish in some of the apartments.

Funny side note, if you look in one of the pics you'll see the Temple of Scientology (lol) maybe RKelly and Tom Cruise are in the closet there! (if you've never seen the southpark episode about scientology just excuse that comment)!

I Don't know why you people are saying Erie County NY is having a modest increase in population?
Nobody said that... (that I'm aware of)

I also don't care about rapid growth, it doesn't help my life one iota. (I'll be selfish when I want to.) Modest, sustainable growth is all we need.
That's what I said in post #550. Basically saying we don't need rapid growth. We just need solid investments, particularly in the inner core, population redistribution, and modest growth. Modest growth is enough to show you're headed in the right direction. Rapid growth, and you'll end up losing the city you were trying to preserve, and quite frankly I don't want to live in a large city. Modest growth is also more sustainable, and less likely to react to economic swings.

anyways, did you ppl see this on buffalo rising?
Along similar lines, does anybody know what (if anything) is going to happen to that bombed-out block of Genesee from Ellicott to Oak? I've heard things about that, but nothing lately. That is a block that could have limitless potential, and would probably remove the worst and most visibly worse portion of downtown.

is there anything going on with the block on Main Street that is the first block north of where the subway goes underground, right accross from the Sidway? There is a large abandoned, boarded up, and graffitied apartment building next to a little grassy knoll, that looks absolutely terrible.

Along similar lines, does anybody know what (if anything) is going to happen to that bombed-out block of Genesee from Ellicott to Oak? I've heard things about that, but nothing lately. That is a block that could have limitless potential, and would probably remove the worst and most visibly worse portion of downtown.
Last I heard was in 2005 the city was threatening the owner with emminent domain, and then he came up with some lame plan. Since then we have a new mayor, and unfortunately he doesn't like to take a stand on anything, or say anything that might piss someone off.

sorry guys, but M&T and Wachovia are gonna merge?

wtf

i think its funny that the hsbc debate got to the point it did.

my post(which is where it began) simply stated that hsbc na's "most significant operation" was in buffalo. nothing about the headquarters.


so is this m&t/wachovia thing just a nasty rumor? DT are you starting rumors? thats not nice. :baeh3:
if its a real thing then lets have some more info please.

Could someone please post some development news to end this banking discussion?

Pretty Please?

That's the smartest thing I've heard all day.

Last comment, for veryprotourism - it's purely speculation on my end, but it would seem that M&T is a very desirable target for Wachovia, given several trends in the past year or so...

Some indicators:

M&T's solid performance
Wachovia's entrance into the market with billboards telling people how to pronounce their name
Wachovia's desire to expand in the Northeast

Wachovia's entrance into the market with billboards telling people how to pronounce their name

Sounds like Verizon. They spent $300 million to promote the new name (basically pronounciation) after the merger (Bell Atlantic & GTE). Imagine the rate cuts or service improvements we all could have had. No, instead we have a name we know how to pronounce. As if it's difficult. Ver-eye-zun.

M&T was in discussions with Wachovia several years ago but those fell through and then M&T merged with Irish controlled Allied a couple of years ago. Their merger agreement would seem to preclude a merger with Wachovia because Allied has the right of first refusal to purchase 51% of the CS of M&T. Basically the deal between M&T and the Irish bank is similar to the original deal between Marine Midland and HSBC. The foreign bank owns approximately 10-20% of the US Bank with the option to take a majority stake at some time in the future.

Revival revived?

By Joyce M. Miles / milesj@gnnewspaper.com
Lockport Union-Sun & Journal

The shell of Union Station still captures imagination.

With his purchase of the station last month, California craftsman Mark Davidson is picking up where others left off in the quest to restore what once was. A Christmastime 2005 ride on the Medina Railroad Museum Train Excursion convinced him he should try to get passenger trains running through the station again.

“I want to bring the station back to the glory that it was in 1888,” he says hopefully. “My wife thinks I’m nuts. I don’t know how I’m going to get it done — but determination is what makes things happen.”

Davidson is somewhat familiar with Union Station, having eyed it on and off for the past 15 years during visits here where his wife, then Michele Muscarella, grew up. Through Internet research and talks with family and local historians, he understands the history of Union Station revival is troubled. After the depot burned in the 1970s, campaigns by Greater Lockport Development Corporation and later the privately held Union Station Development Corporation fell under the weight of financial constraints.

Because the structure is a designated historic landmark, the requirements of government grant funding are exacting. True restoration carries a price tag that hovers around $1 million, an amount that private investors alone would be hard-pressed to recover. Whether the effort is private, public or both, “You need M-O-N-E-Y — and lots of it,” Community Development Director Bill Evert said.

GLDC gave Union Station recovery a whirl in the late 1980s, winning a $200,000 environmental grant from the state that required a match. The agency solicited private donations through a buy-a-brick initiative but raised less than $2,000. Ultimately it gave up the grant and returned the donations, Evert said.

In the 1990s, Brian Yaiser of Royalton bought the property and with two others formed Union Station Development Corporation to restore the exterior and establish a working museum and office space inside. A federal transportation grant of more than $500,000 was awarded to the City of Lockport for the project, but grant administrators balked when the restoration plan was revised to increase office space. Public funds have to be used for public, not private, purposes.

Ultimately, the city gave up that grant, too, and the shell has languished ever since while city planners talk about restoration as an abstract, maybe-someday goal.

Davidson wants to change that. A set dresser with Touchstone (Disney) productions who once worked in a roundhouse, he can look at the diminished structure and the future rising from the past.

“I see beyond what the building looks like now. I can see a restaurant, a coffee house, a place for the riders on the Medina train to (visit),” he said. “I can see (rail) memorabilia inside.”

Marty Phelps and Linda Klein, curators of Medina Railroad Museum, can see it too. They also were interested in buying Union Station but Klein said factors including financing didn’t come together in time. Having talked with Davidson when he rode the Excursion last year, and learning Davidson is from the same community Klein grew up in, they’d definitely be interested in working out a deal with him to sell tickets, board passengers and showcase some of the museum’s thousands of memorabilia pieces there.

“You can still see how beautiful the station was. We have photos and postcards of it in the museum,” she said. “(A deal) is certainly something we’d look into.”

Davidson acknowledges nothing’s going to happen overnight, but he’ll be eligible for retirement from Disney in two years and says he’s eager to move his family to Western New York. The cost of living in California is high and the quality of schooling for his three children, ages 8, 6 and 3, seems lacking. Having checked things out during visits with his wife’s family, he said, “the difference is like night and day.”

Davidson is looking for blueprints and other documents that will tell him more about the original station. Anyone who has information to share can write to him at 5857 Beck Ave., N. Hollywood, CA 91601.

A new Union Station Web site is being set up by his wife now, he said.



PHOTO - http://www.lockportjournal.com/local/images_sizedimage_109155704/resources_photoview

Looks like Lockport has it's own little Central Terminal going on there. Hopefully they can make that work, it looks like it used to be a beautiful building (plus I'm partial to "old-tymey"/small town railroad depots).

One of these days I gotta head up there. Sorry to say I've never been...

"Could someone please post some development news to end this banking discussion?"

They tore the vinyl siding facade and sign off of the old Hertel Stamp and Coin building near parkside. I dont know what is going to become of the building though. But there is your development news.

how is banking talk bad here? these banks are what make downtown busy, the news that effects them...effects everything.

lets not be so narrow. :sleepy:

Thanks Jimi - I'll take anything at this point.

I'm not against Bank news (keyword being 'news') But the back-and-forth about M&T and HSBC wasn't news. mostly just arguing with DT. No announcements or even Rumors have come out about either bank. Let's talk about something else. When M&T or HSBC actually plan to change, let us know then.

As to HSBC.... I think it's similar to the whole Xerox and Rochester thing. It is recognized as a Buffalo company, but it's really headquareted in London. Just like Xerox is technicaly headquartered in Connecticut.

From: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/04/17/daily43.html
____________________________
Airline circling N.F. airports
Business First of Buffalo - 3:11 PM EDT Thursday
by James Fink

Business First

The operators of a fledgling airline, aimed at catering to the group-travel business, is eyeing Niagara Falls as one of its primary destinations.

Chicago-based Festival Airlines, which is expected to begin service later this year, has met with local tourism representatives including a clout-laden contingent from Niagara Falls, Ont. about having its flights land in the region.

Festival officials said they are considering having their 757s land at either the John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport, Niagara Falls International Airport or Buffalo Niagara International Airport, though they have yet to meet with any representatives from those three airports until they finish their own due diligence.

The first step was an April 19 meeting in Niagara Falls, Ont., used to gauge the pool of potential customers.

"This will be driven by the consumer experience," said Mark O'Malley, Festival Airlines senior vice president of marketing and sales. "Before we commit, we need to know more about the market and what the needs of the hotel and tourism industry are. Our meeting is more on the fact-finding level than anything else."

Festival will be use both Midway Airport in Chicago and Chicago/Rockford International Airport as its hub. Its 757 planes have a 178-person capacity.

Festival will begin flights once it receives all necessary federal approvals and signs on at specific destinations.

O'Malley said plane loads of tourists will leave the Chicago area and head to a number of high profile vacation spots. Besides Niagara Falls, Festival is also eyeing service to cities such as Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Juan and Fort Meyers, Fla.

Niagara Falls, Ont., Mayor Ted Salci said he hopes a deal can be struck to bring Festival's service into the region.

"It will mean a lot to Niagara Falls," Salci said. "It opens Niagara Falls to a very large and important U.S. market, namely Chicago and the entire Midwest. It could have a huge and important impact on our (tourism) numbers."

The Canadian side of Niagara Falls attracts about 14 million tourists annually and that number is expected to hit the 20 million mark by 2010, according to projections from Statistics Canada.

Niagara Falls, N.Y. attracts about 8 million annual visitors.

Niagara Falls could Festival's eye because of its long-standing brand name but also through the efforts of Larry Lewin, the immediate past president of the Niagara Fallsview Casino Resort and Casino Niagara.

As to HSBC.... I think it's similar to the whole Xerox and Rochester thing. It is recognized as a Buffalo company, but it's really headquareted in London. Just like Xerox is technicaly headquartered in Connecticut.

nobody ever said that Buffalo was the world HQ for HSBC...it's the North American HQ.

Xerox was in Rochester and moved to Connecticut, big difference.

Did HSBC used to be headquartered in Buffalo?

Marine Midland was, before the merger.

HSBC is based in London, it was also located at Hong Kong when that was British...so the company was f'n huge.

When HSBC aquired Marine Midland (a native Buffalo bank) it centered its North American operations in Buffalo though it still has offices in Rochester, NYC, Chicago and I'm sure many other cities.

nobody ever said that Buffalo was the world HQ for HSBC...it's the North American HQ.

Xerox was in Rochester and moved to Connecticut, big difference.

I think ROCGuy was saying that the situation between the two companies is similar in that their realistic HQs are located in Buff and Roch respectively...but on paper it says somewhere else i.e. Illinois for HSBC and Conn for Xerox.

^^ basically yeah.

I guess wherever the CEO and the staff are located is where the HQ is...right?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

look at that!

^ terrible, wtf is going on with Utah, Montana and Idaho...we need to get our gas from where ever they are.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

look at that!


Wow NY is a red state now!

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/04/24/daily8.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Construction numbers continue to run hot in Western New York, based on a report released Monday afternoon by McGraw-Hill Inc.

Contracts for future construction in Erie and Niagara counties totaled $294.6 million for the first quarter of 2006. That was up 70 percent from $173.2 million in the corresponding quarter last year.


Solid gains were reported on both sides of the industry.

Nonresidential construction accounted for $165.4 million of business in January, February and March. That represented an increase of 110 percent from $78.8 million a year ago. Nonresidential projects include stores, industrial plants, schools, churches and office buildings.

Residential construction in the two-county region totaled $129.2 million during the first quarter. That was up 37 percent from $94.4 million in the same quarter last year.

^ is any of that residential construction in the city of Buffalo? is there ever residential construction in Buffalo, other than converting old buildings into apts?

Philly on M&T radar
Business First of Buffalo - 1:26 PM EDT Monday
M&T Bank wants to open its first branch office in Philadelphia.

The Buffalo-based bank is seeking authority to open a branch in the nation's fifth-largest city. The office would open in mid-June, pending regulatory approval.

M&T already operates 24 branches in the Philadelphia market and a total of 650 in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia.

Buffalo a top arts destination, say magazine's readers

Business First of Buffalo - 3:16 PM EDT Monday

Readers of American Style have elevated Buffalo to the top spot in the magazine's ninth annual poll of leading arts destinations.

Buffalo placed first in the mid-sized cities category, rising all the way from no. 23 in 2005.

The publication's editors wrote, "Sure, it's cold, and often snowy. But indoors, you'll find a surprising amount of art in a variety of venues, including the Albright-Knox Gallery and the Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center, which relocated early this year to a renovated Methodist church owned by musician Ani DiFranco's Righteous Babe Records. Architecture buffs will want to make a pilgrimage to the Frank Lloyd Wright Darwin D. Martin House Complex. Three of the five buildings on the complex had been demolished in the 1960s, and are the first Wright buildings being reconstructed from the ground up. The complex remains open for tours during construction."

Albuquerque, N.M., held onto its second-place ranking, followed by Pittsburgh, Scottsdale, Ariz., and New Orleans.

New York City was first among big cities and Corning placed third among small cities

Buffalo a top arts destination, say magazine's readers

Business First of Buffalo - 3:16 PM EDT Monday

Readers of American Style have elevated Buffalo to the top spot in the magazine's ninth annual poll of leading arts destinations.

Buffalo placed first in the mid-sized cities category, rising all the way from no. 23 in 2005.

The publication's editors wrote, "Sure, it's cold, and often snowy. But indoors, you'll find a surprising amount of art in a variety of venues, including the Albright-Knox Gallery and the Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center, which relocated early this year to a renovated Methodist church owned by musician Ani DiFranco's Righteous Babe Records. Architecture buffs will want to make a pilgrimage to the Frank Lloyd Wright Darwin D. Martin House Complex. Three of the five buildings on the complex had been demolished in the 1960s, and are the first Wright buildings being reconstructed from the ground up. The complex remains open for tours during construction."

Albuquerque, N.M., held onto its second-place ranking, followed by Pittsburgh, Scottsdale, Ariz., and New Orleans.

New York City was first among big cities and Corning placed third among small cities

Take these rankings with a grain of salt. 2 years ago before they broke the cities up in cattagories Buffalo came in 5th among ALL cities. Then last year dropped way down into the 20's among just the so called "small" cities. How is that possible? This year buffalo springs up to #1 among the so called "small" cities. Notice that Atlanta and Miami are in the small city group and tiny little Jacksonville Florida is in the big city group. The editors of this magazine have no concept of the sizes of metropolitain areas and how they affect the importnace of a city and its culture. Do you think Jacksonville ever has a chance to top the "big" city list? This poll is also not scientific in that it is based only on the number of votes a city gets get. There is no way to know the real motives of voters such as civic boosterism. Hurray for Buffalo but this list along with other city ranking lists are meaningless.

Not to nitpik, but ... they actually broke it down into Big (500k+), Medium (100-499k), and Small (-100k) cities.
Buffalo was first among Medium cities... (Santa Fe topped the list of the wee ones)

Kudos to Buffalo!

... and to NY in general:


We Love N.Y.
By Christine Kloostra

AmericanStyle readers love New York. And not just the city. Your affection extends beyond the boroughs all the way to western New York and the Finger Lakes region.

The votes for the 2006 Top 25 Arts Destinations are in, and reigning king New York City once again tops our list of Top 25 Big Cities, claiming the No. 1 spot for its third consecutive year. Buffalo, N.Y., muscled its way back to the top position on our Mid-Sized Cities list, while Corning, N.Y., claimed the No. 3 spot among the Top 25 Small Cities and Towns, behind Santa Fe, N.M., and Asheville, N.C.

The members of this year's Top 25 Big Cities remain virtually unchanged from 2005, with a single newcomer, San Jose, Calif., joining the list at No. 25. Behind the Big Apple are Chicago, Ill. (No. 2), Washington, D.C. (No. 3), San Francisco, Calif. (No. 4), and Boston, Mass. (No. 5).

Buffalo's ascension to the top spot from its 2005 ranking of 23rd is one of several dramatic swings in the Top 25 Mid-Sized Cities category. Albuquerque, N.M., held onto its No. 2 position, but emerging glass mecca Pittsburgh, Pa., jumped from No. 10 in 2005 to No. 3 this year. Rounding out the top five are Scottsdale, Ariz., and New Orleans, La.

Joining Santa Fe, Asheville and Corning at the pinnacle of the Top 25 Small Cities and Towns are Charleston, S.C., in the No. 4 position and Sedona, Ariz., at No. 5.

Sweet...... I have to wonder, if Buffalo still had it's peak population of almost 600,000, iif it would be rated the best BIG city. It'd be pretty awsome if it could outdo NYC.

horray for b-lo.
meaningless, grain of salt, unscientific and such or not, hoooorray!

im not going to shoot down any positive recognition anyone gives buffalo.

All I am saying is that Jacksonville is not a big city and Atlanta is not a medium city. Just tells you something about how sloppy the editors are at this publication.

If you take this one a face value thaten you have to take the ones that slp buffalo down at face value too.

All I am saying is that Jacksonville is not a big city and Atlanta is not a medium city. Just tells you something about how sloppy the editors are at this publication.

If you take this one a face value thaten you have to take the ones that slp buffalo down at face value too.

They probably just looked at the central city population not the metro...Jacksonville is roughly "700,000" when in reality is about 200,000...while Atlanta is about 400,000 but has a huge metro population.

i hear ya, i usually do(take them at face value that is)

im just not going to spit on something that recognizes buffalo as a cultural center, because it is.

seriously, i would never put buffalo in a class with new york or chicago, but city's many times buffalo's size brag day and night about having things that buffalo has. as far as cities buffalos size, i can't think of a single city/metro 1-1.5 million that has anywhere near what buffalo has. sorry, try as you might to find one, one just doesn't exist.

as far as the magizine goes and how much the writers cared to differentiate btween metro sizes and city sizes, who cares? yeah, its probably all hosreshit based on peoples opinions anyways. maybe they had a different pool of voters last year than they had this year. maybe its all a sham.
i dont know where jacksonville stands as far as arts go. i know that thiee city population is not representative of their metro pop. but i can say that atlanta, as a cultural center(sports aside) doesn't deserve to be compared with metros its size anyway.

whatever, i hear what you saying steel. im just saying that buffalo deserves the credit, whether its inconsistent or unscientific or whatever.

^ Nashville, idk...they have an NFL and NHL team too. And they are just about the exact size. But Idk if they have as many of the cultural things we have or the history.

Take these rankings with a grain of salt. 2 years ago before they broke the cities up in cattagories Buffalo came in 5th among ALL cities. Then last year dropped way down into the 20's among just the so called "small" cities. How is that possible? This year buffalo springs up to #1 among the so called "small" cities. Notice that Atlanta and Miami are in the small city group and tiny little Jacksonville Florida is in the big city group. The editors of this magazine have no concept of the sizes of metropolitain areas and how they affect the importnace of a city and its culture. Do you think Jacksonville ever has a chance to top the "big" city list? This poll is also not scientific in that it is based only on the number of votes a city gets get. There is no way to know the real motives of voters such as civic boosterism. Hurray for Buffalo but this list along with other city ranking lists are meaningless.
Actually Buffalo is in the Medium City category, Corning is the city mentioned in the Small City category. The ranking is for City Proper. They make no pretense to be discussing metropolitan areas. For City proper classifications Atlanta with slightly over 400,000 population is a medium sized City and Jacksonville Fl is a large city. If they were doing a ranking of metro areas they would have said so and then would have included Atlanta in the large city category. After all it is their magazine and they are free to use whichever criteria they choose. They use City limits because they probably assume that everything in the suburbs is a plastic reproduction or a carbon copy of what is available in every other suburb. You must remember 90% of the so called "artists" are urban snobs.

^ Nashville, idk...they have an NFL and NHL team too. And they are just about the exact size. But Idk if they have as many of the cultural things we have or the history.


fair enough, new orleans metro(pre katrina) is comparable in size to buffalo as well.

Actually Buffalo is in the Medium City category, Corning is the city mentioned in the Small City category. The ranking is for City Proper. They make no pretense to be discussing metropolitan areas. For City proper classifications Atlanta with slightly over 400,000 population is a medium sized City and Jacksonville Fl is a large city. If they were doing a ranking of metro areas they would have said so and then would have included Atlanta in the large city category. After all it is their magazine and they are free to use whichever criteria they choose. They use City limits because they probably assume that everything in the suburbs is a plastic reproduction or a carbon copy of what is available in every other suburb. You must remember 90% of the so called "artists" are urban snobs.

The reference to small city was a typo. That has already been pointed out

City size has nothing to do with its importance. The metro size is a more important indicator. Jacksonville's boundaries encompas almost all of its suburbs. That is the only reason that it has a population over 500,000. If Buffalo had the same land area it would be approaching a population of 1M. The actual urban city like portion of Jacksonville is very small. Their criteria shows a massive lack of understanding of cities which m,akes their ranking "questionable"

http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20060425/1024773.asp

can't ever build anything.

The reference to small city was a typo. That has already been pointed out

City size has nothing to do with its importance. The metro size is a more important indicator. Jacksonville's boundaries encompas almost all of its suburbs. That is the only reason that it has a population over 500,000. If Buffalo had the same land area it would be approaching a population of 1M. The actual urban city like portion of Jacksonville is very small. Their criteria shows a massive lack of understanding of cities which m,akes their ranking "questionable"

The Arts are not based on semantics, you seem to worry a bit too much about the minutia and are missing the gist of the article.

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/04/24/daily15.html?jst=b_ln_hl

need a job in lending services?


http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/04/24/daily16.html?jst=b_ln_hl

want to own an anchor bar franchise?


http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/04/24/smallb1.html?i=38171

just another one of buffalo's many small companies that play a huge roll in medical supply around the world.


nothing big, and jerome usually posts the bizjournals stuff, but hes slacking today, and im bored.

Actually today I'm not slacking.

... but if you are not spoon feeding us local economy's play by play, then who will?

The Arts are not based on semantics, you seem to worry a bit too much about the minutia and are missing the gist of the article.


No just pointing out that they have broken cities down into classes that are meaningless. Jacksonville is not in the same class as New York City.

The criteria of the list is flawed. Hardly semantics.

... but if you are not spoon feeding us local economy's play by play, then who will?
Perhaps we could get Susie on loan from the Rochester thread to help out.

LMAO!

HAHA!

Re: The Anchor Bar -- WIGS and I were there last month, and I knew that they were going to start franchising, and I told him "I wish I could open the first franchise in Charlotte -- there are so many Buffalonians down there..."

Well, whaddya know... the first Anchor Bar franchise? In Charlotte. Damn, I'm good :D

New restaurant opening rumored at old location. Rumors are circulating in Lockport that the downtown "Old City Hall" at the Pine Street Bridge over the canal will open late this or summer as a new restaurant. The building has hosted dining establishment before but the last major tenant ran a rock tavern out of the building with a small cafe in the basement. It's been closed for a couple years with only the Lockport Cave using a part of the building to sell tickets for its canalside "cave" tours last year during the tourist season. The eatery is said to have decided on the once-before-used-name of "Old City Hall Restaurant." (4/22/06)

for a photo go to http://207.57.18.243/lips.htm

21st Century Fund votes $100,000 award
By ANTHONY CARDINALE
News Staff Reporter
4/25/2006

Members of the 21st Century Fund voted Monday evening to award this year's $100,000 grant to the Buffalo Architectural Experience.
The winning project to promote Buffalo as a "must see" architectural tourism destination is a collaboration of WNED-TV, the Buffalo Niagara Convention & Visitors Bureau and the Landmark Society of the Niagara Frontier. Voting took place at the Roswell Park Research Studies Center.

"This is the right time for this project to have come together," said Dennis Galucki, executive director of the Landmark Society. "It's a tipping point - there's just enough awareness of our architecture, our history and our need to tell ourselves about it as well as the rest of the world."

WNED has produced a 60-minute documentary, "Frank Lloyd Wright's Buffalo," to be released on a national level later this year or early next. The narrator is David Ogden Steirs, who played the stuffy Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III in TV's "M*A*S*H" series.

"The documentary, broadcast in prime time on the PBS high definition channel, will create a major audience of interest," said Don Boswell, WNED president. "We expect the public response to be similar to what happened with Ken Burns' program series on Frank Lloyd Wright - but Burns' series didn't really talk about Buffalo."

Edward J. Healy, communications director for the Convention & Visitors Bureau, said many Frank Lloyd Wright enthusiasts have never heard of his Buffalo creations, such as the Darwin R. Martin House. Target cities for drawing visitors include Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, Baltimore and Toronto.

The grant will pay for production of DVDs highlighting all of Buffalo's architectural treasures and for permanent signage pointing visitors to them. The total project budget is $350,000.

Leslie Zemsky, chairwoman of the awards steering committee, said the 21st Century Fund - a creation of the Community Foundation for Greater Buffalo - is conducting a membership drive to assure its ability to generate a $100,000 grant every year. So far it has raised $54,610 of the $200,000 it needs to boost its endowment.

"It's a great learning organization for any age," said Katie Militello of Amherst, who attended with her daughter, Sarah, 13.

"My Mom gave me a membership for Christmas," said Sarah, who attends Amherst Middle School. "It was a surprise. It's really cool, being able to vote for a project, because I'm not old enough to vote for president."

Placing a close second in second-round balloting was the Buffalo Grown Mobile Market, a project of the Massachusetts Avenue Project.


e-mail: acardinale@buffnews.com

Never is it mentioned that the suburbs DON'T NEED the money...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suburbs shortchanged, GOP legislators say

By MATTHEW SPINA
News Staff Reporter
4/25/2006

The County Legislature's three Republicans say Erie County's cities no longer contain enough people to justify their large share of sales tax proceeds, so the lawmakers want to refigure the almost 30-year-old formula to pour more money into suburban towns.
Their proposal would recognize the exodus to the suburbs that was under way when the current agreement was drawn in the 1970s and continues to some degree today. Buffalo, which received $63.2 million in sales tax aid last year, would stand to lose the most, if state government does not close the gap, as one of the Republican lawmakers suggested.

"The present agreement is inequitable," said Michael H. Ranzenhofer, R-Amherst. He said the cities of Buffalo, Lackawanna and Tonawanda receive more than $215 a person, while many towns and villages collect less than $100 a person. "That is unfair," he said.

Ranzenhofer, Republican Minority Leader Barry A. Weinstein of Amherst and Orchard Park Republican John J. Mills will ask the full Legislature to abandon the agreement with one year's notice to the cities - as a clause allows - and negotiate a new pact reflecting that the cities now comprise 34 percent of Erie County's population, not 46 percent as they did in 1977.

The three Republicans have a long way to go in pushing their idea through a 15-member Legislature when Democrats outnumber them by a 4-1 ratio. The 12 Democrats, six from districts involving Buffalo, seldom endorse ideas devised solely within the Republican bloc.

But this year, the Legislature has appointed a task force to, among other things, examine how Erie County shares sales tax proceeds and suggest a better way. Erie is among the few New York counties sharing its millions with public schools and its mass-transit system.

"This task force is going to look at everything," said David Rutecki, the M&T Bank executive and former Buffalo councilman asked to lead the nine-member panel. "I am proposing we look at the history of how we got the current formula. You really have to look at pre-1977 and to look at how other communities do their distribution."

Rutecki is examining how the 1977 agreement lessened Buffalo's share so county government could step up in supporting cultural institutions. But he wants to determine if the county over the decades contributed to cultural groups as generously as Buffalo had done.

The task force includes state, county, city and town officials. Its recommendations are expected by August, but it has yet to meet a first time. Weinstein, who also might join the panel, said the Republicans' call to scrap the existing formula fits with the overall intent of the task force.

"In order to have a new agreement you need to end the old one. In order to end the old one you need to give one year's notice," he said. "So we are jump-starting negotiations."

The current formula gives Buffalo, Lackawanna and Tonawanda two bites of the sales-tax apple. For many years, Erie County consumers paid an 8, and then an 8.25, percent sales tax. Now they are charged 8.75 cents on the dollar, with Erie County levying 4.75 percent and the state levying the remainder for its needs.

County government keeps the vast majority of proceeds from 1.75 of its percentage points, which were added to deal with its financial crises and to deal with the burdens state government places on counties and their taxpayers. The county then shares income from the remaining 3 percentage points of its sales tax.

From the approximately $375 million that those three pennies on the dollar generate each year, the 1977 formula lets county government keep 35 percent. Then 29 percent goes to schools and 10 percent to the three cities based on population. The remaining 26 percent goes to towns - and cities - again based on population.

For years, some Buffalo residents and officials complained that no other major county in New York shared so little of its sales tax proceeds with its major city. This year, state lawmakers from the Buffalo area forced county officials to share another $12.5 million next year. Under the 1977 formula, nearly half went to Buffalo, even though its population is less than 50 percent.

County Executive Joel A. Giambra, a Republican who lives in Buffalo, said Monday the Republicans' proposal will drive a wedge between the city and its suburbs - "something we should not do," he said.

Weinstein said those who fear the suggestion should ask state lawmakers to make up Buffalo's difference with state aid.


e-mail: mspina@buffnews.com

*****
Legalization of drugs and running for Congress aside, dare I say that Giambra is making more and more sense lately?

Exterior renovations expected to take 3 years
By BRIAN MEYER
News Staff Reporter
4/25/2006


Dennis C. Enser/Buffalo News
Workers piece together the framework for scaffolding erected Monday along the northwest side of City Hall as work began to repair the stone facade. Another photo on Picture Page, C10.

One of the region's most acclaimed architectural icons is getting a face-lift.
Crews have started work on an $8 million, three-year exterior renovation of Buffalo's City Hall.

The elements have taken their toll on the sandstone skin and terra cotta ornamental tiles of a structure that is considered among the nation's finest Art Deco public buildings.

Towering nearly 400 feet from the street to the tip of its tower, City Hall, which was completed in 1931, is exposed to Lake Erie's fierce winds. Portions of the stone exterior have cracked, and pieces of sandstone have fallen off in recent years.

"This building really takes a beating," said Paul J. Gareis, the city's principal engineer. "All things considered, it's in pretty good shape. But we need to reset stones and do some other work to make sure we can get another 75 years out of the building."

DiDonato Associates Engineering and Architecture of Buffalo inspected the damage last year and recommended a laundry list of repairs that include waterproofing, masonry work, roof work and lighting replacement. The city solicited bids and awarded the job to Allstate-Progressive Joint Venture.

The first phase of the project will cost $3.9 million and take about 11/2 years to complete. Phase One will focus on exterior repairs from the 15th floor to the building's dome, which is about 30 stories high. City Hall's 28th-floor observation deck, a popular stop for tourists and residents, will be closed while work is under way.

Will people notice anything different once the scaffolding comes down and the work is finished?

"Not really," Public Works Commissioner Joseph N. Giambra said. "It's like doing plumbing work in your home. You sometimes spend thousands of dollars, but things end up looking the same."

Some work is being done after hours for safety reasons, Gareis said. Crews must use giant cranes to haul heavy loads of material to high elevations. Gareis said they decided to schedule some tasks during periods when few pedestrians or vehicles are in the area.

One of the most costly chores in the early phases, Giambra said, has involved erecting an elaborate network of scaffolding, including an exterior elevator for use by work crews.


e-mail: bmeyer@buffnews.com

you know consolidation would solve that erie county vs "the cities" tax dispute.

or we could just redistribute it based on how many sales tax dollars are produced by each township, and watch the entire county gang up on amherst and cheektowaga for getting the bigger slice.

I'm 110% for consolidation. It's worked wonders for Nashville, which pioneered it in 1963.

Do it and do it now.

Exterior renovations expected to take 3 years
Will people notice anything different once the scaffolding comes down and the work is finished?

"Not really," Public Works Commissioner Joseph N. Giambra said. "It's like doing plumbing work in your home. You sometimes spend thousands of dollars, but things end up looking the same."
That part is disappointing. I mean the work they're doing is necessary, but that building really does need to be cleaned and polished both inside and out. Too bad they're not cleaning it while they have all the scaffolding there.

Re: The Anchor Bar -- WIGS and I were there last month, and I knew that they were going to start franchising, and I told him "I wish I could open the first franchise in Charlotte -- there are so many Buffalonians down there..."

Well, whaddya know... the first Anchor Bar franchise? In Charlotte. Damn, I'm good :D
You're good, but apparently not good enough... Otherwise YOU'd be opening that franchise instead of someone else.

But don't worry. People are always stealing my good ideas too.

:)

All I am saying is that Jacksonville is not a big city and Atlanta is not a medium city. Just tells you something about how sloppy the editors are at this publication.
That's also a slap in the face for Atlanta and Minneapolis. Since they're really "big" cities but listed in the "medium" city list... they should have kicked butt and been at the top of the list. But they got cities like Buffalo smackin them around sayin "Who's yer Daddy"

well, minneapolis could be debatable. i've read that they have more art galleries per capita than any city in america.

atlanta sucks ass(in my opinion). the only culture i ever found there in multiple visits was car culture. vroom vroom loud mufflers and spinners on my nissan stanza. loads of history there and noone could give two shits.

Atlanta - perhaps they're too busy making history to dwell on the past.

well, minneapolis could be debatable. i've read that they have more art galleries per capita than any city in america.

atlanta sucks ass(in my opinion). the only culture i ever found there in multiple visits was car culture. vroom vroom loud mufflers and spinners on my nissan stanza. loads of history there and noone could give two shits.

don't forget flying the Confederate Flag.

well, minneapolis could be debatable. i've read that they have more art galleries per capita than any city in america.

atlanta sucks ass(in my opinion). the only culture i ever found there in multiple visits was car culture. vroom vroom loud mufflers and spinners on my nissan stanza. loads of history there and noone could give two shits.

Gotta disagree there, man. Even though Atlanta is very materialistic, there is a very heavy influence of arts and culture in the city and the residents are well aware. As someone who worked in the middle of everything in Midtown, I've seen it first hand. Atlanta is also VERY blessed with the gift of philanthropists -- both individual and corporate. The new aquarium (which is the world's largest), was funded privately by the Atlanta born and bred founder of Home Depot.

The new $300 million dollar Symphony Hall (designed by Santiago Calatrava) is currently raising funds for construction and just accepted a $10 millon dollar donations from both the Coca-Cola Corporation and SunTrust Bank. Private citizens have stepped forward as well and local millionare/philanthropist Betty Gage has contributed $5 million to the project. Atlantans have stepped up to the plate and have truly worked to change the city, and I commend them.


If only Buffalo could have such giving and visionary citizens in power, perhaps more could be done for the city.

Atlanta - perhaps they're too busy making history to dwell on the past.

Yup.


don't forget flying the Confederate Flag.

Nope -- and don't forget, Atlanta's a lot less segregated than Buffalo and provides many more opportunities for African Americans ;)

Nope -- and don't forget, Atlanta's a lot less segregated than Buffalo and provides many more opportunities for African Americans ;)

Thats cuz they have that rediculous crazy congresswoman that punched a security guard haha...and yes i've been to the south, and yes they do fly the confederate flag...half the white people driving in their pickup trucks either had it in the back window or on their license plate holder. Its not that they have more opportunites for blacks, its they have more opportunities for all people. I would still take Buffalo poverty over Atlanta poverty...ours is very modest compared to Atlanta.

Nope -- and don't forget, Atlanta's a lot less segregated than Buffalo and provides many more opportunities for African Americans ;)
Well then maybe Atlanta is totally different than the rest of the south, or you're in denial.

As for opportunities, I can't say. Buffalo's suburbanites do seem to be among the most racist people I have ever met, but then again I haven't been to enough places to see how it stacks up.

I'm not making up the idea of Atlanta being a black mecca - it's the number one city for Blacks in the US as cited by numerous sources within the African American community, such as the NAACP, Black Enterprise, Ebony, ans other sources such as Fortune and Time. The city has some of the wealthiest black individuals in the country and is a center for black power. Median incomes for African Americans are also some of the highest in the nation as well.

"The city too busy to hate" was a leader in the Civil Rights movement and it continues to this day.

As for the Confederate flag, I have only seen it once in Atlanta (the city itself, not the burbs) one time, and that was on a car from Pauling County.

...and don't forget, Atlanta's a lot less segregated than Buffalo and provides many more opportunities for African Americans ;)

This is true, but Buffalo is certainly moving a step in the right direction with a Black mayor, Black Police Commissioner, and Black Superintendent of Buffalo schools. All this in a city (proper) that is still more white (54%) than black (37%).

of course there are more opportunities in cities like Atlanta (proper) and Birmingham (proper) that are 61% black and 73.5% black, respectively.

and let's not forget that Erie County is only a paltry 13% African American.
and yes the suburbs are racist, Cheektowaga probably being the worst, but the city of Buffalo is getting more and more diverse and people co-exist peacefully, for the most part.

It is predicted by 2010 that Atlanta will only be 53% African American -- not because of population decline, but because of increasing diversity within the city limits.

I'll tell you one thing, it is funny to read your guys' perceptions of things outside the region ;)

Not that this really passes as "development news", even by Buffalo standards, but has anybody noticed all the crappy railroad tracks along Ganson St are being re-laid? Saw the new ties all sitting there last week, and today they were laying some (neat looking operation, never seen it before - usually see tracks being removed, not built). Something going on at Great Northern or General Mills, or is it just something that was supposed to be done years ago?

^^that's good. I'm all for diversity, people of all colours and creeds living together in harmony.

M&T acquiring Citibank's upstate branches
Business First of Buffalo - 5:19 PM EDT Tuesday
by Thomas Hartley
Business First

Buffalo-based M&T Bank has agreed to acquire Citibank N.A.'s 21 branch offices in upstate New York.

Nine branches are in the Buffalo area and 12 are in Rochester.

The purchase, which was for an undisclosed price, would give M&T the leading market share position in Buffalo, where it has been second with 28.14 percent to HSBC Bank N.A., and in Rochester, where it also has been the second-ranking bank deposit-taker with 15.54 percent, again to HSBC.

"This is an opportunity that we have always hoped would come our way," said Richard Gold, M&T executive vice president.

"The value of taking an already strong presence in Buffalo and Rochester and taking it to the next level is a wonderful opportunity and one we didn't want to pass up. That motivated our interest," he said.

Afterward, M&T will control 30 percent of the deposits in the Buffalo market and 19.5 percent in Rochester.

In the transaction, which was announced April 25, M&T would acquire about $274 million in loans and assume about $1.1 billion in deposits. One hundred seven Citibank employees in the Buffalo offices and 145 employees in Rochester will be transferred to M&T after the deal is completed in mid-year.

Some office consolidations are possible.

Other businesses and local employees of Citibank N.A.'s parent, Citigroup, will not be affected.

The deal is subject to regulatory approvals.

© American City Business Journals Inc.

and let's not forget that Erie County is only a paltry 13% African American.
and yes the suburbs are racist, Cheektowaga probably being the worst, but the city of Buffalo is getting more and more diverse and people co-exist peacefully, for the most part.
Take this as you will...

From Top 100 Least Racially Diverse Cities (pop. 5,000+) (http://www.city-data.com/top34.html)

6 Marilla, New York (98.7%, pop. 5,709)
9 Elma, New York (98.6%, pop. 11,304)
28 Boston, New York (98.4%, pop. 7,897)
55 East Aurora, New York (98.2%, pop. 6,673)
82 Lancaster, New York (98.1%, pop. 11,188)
83 Hamburg, New York (98.0%, pop. 10,116)
87 Pendleton, New York (98.0%, pop. 6,050)

Lots of New England on that list too (I didn't need to see the list to know that), Northeast, Illinois, and even some Texas and California.

The complementing list of most racially diverse cities is practically all Hawaii, alot of California, and a smattering of NY-S. New England.

From the same site, there were 32 cities that lost more of a percentage of population than Buffalo between 2000-2002. Lots of interesting stuff, just not sure how factual it all is.

Philly on M&T radar
Business First of Buffalo - 1:26 PM EDT Monday

M&T Bank wants to open its first branch office in Philadelphia.

The Buffalo-based bank is seeking authority to open a branch in the nation's fifth-largest city. The office would open in mid-June, pending regulatory approval.

M&T already operates 24 branches in the Philadelphia market and a total of 650 in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia.

Among the other largest U.S. cities where M&T also has branches are New York City, Baltimore and Washington, D.C.

© American City Business Journals Inc.

M&T acquiring Citibank's upstate branches

Bastards!

That better not affect all the privileges of my ex-employee Citibank account! Possibly a good thing my father left them 10 years ago...

I like M&T, but I don't have an account there because my Citibank one is better. The flyers for free stuff upon signing up are enticing, but how many bank accounts does one need in just one city?

Bastards!

That better not affect all the privileges of my ex-employee Citibank account! Possibly a good thing my father left them 10 years ago...

I like M&T, but I don't have an account there because my Citibank one is better. The flyers for free stuff upon signing up are enticing, but how many bank accounts does one need in just one city?

hey sargeant,

you won't appreciate this animated gif then :lol: sorry man

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/upload/2006/04/citiacquired.gif

Well like I said, I like M&T, especially considering they're local, we'll just have to see what kind of treatment I get with my account. I better not have to piss more money away on checks, I just used my first new Citibank one today lol.

I do like the idea of having more than what, 4 ATM locations with 10 miles.

If they are ever bought by Wachovia though, as someone here likes to think, I'll move into either First Niagara, Citizens, or consolidate into my NHFCU account. Take that lol.

Wonder if I should open up an account and get some free luggage or whatever the most recent thing was, before it's too late?!? :)

This is getting boring. You lazy ass people could at least go out and get some pictures of some current developments if there are no new project announcments to report :) .

sarge, I don't like to think it (I hate Wachovia), but I do see it as inevitable.

As for moving your accounts, more power to ya! I'd do it too.

Jane Jacobs dies at age 89

DT,you can spit all the pro-southern horseshit about it not being a racially divided place or whatever, and that may hold true in urban areas. im sorry, i lived in south carolina, and i never in my life saw so much blatant open racism as i saw there.

im not suggesting that people's mindset is anymore racist, but there is quite a bit of it spoken very loudly.
theres also quite a bit of anti-yankeeism, and don't try to deny it.

to quote a man from hartwell, georgia that i sold a TV to "i don't like y'all yankees coming down here stealing our jobs, but atleast you ain't a ******."

no lie, and the confederate flags are no lie either. plenty in SC and plenty in atlanta.

second to buffalo, i have more relatives in the atlanta area than anywhere else. not one of them is yankee(yeah back after WW2 when atlanta's economy sucked ass, they moved here) i have spent a considerable amount of time there and there are plenty of confederate flags all over. perhaps you spent so much time in the south that they dont grab your attention anymore.

im not hating on the south, but to deny the fact that a large pecentage of white southerners are still angry that they have to share a shitter with a black, well thats just plain blind.

again thats not to say that white buffalonians are any less racist, just that its very loudly spoken in the south and if you dont see it its because you are numb to it.

...i lived in south carolina, and i never in my life saw so much blatant open racism as i saw there...
I agree from the visitor's perspective. It's not quite so evident, until you take a turn off the beaten path, and even moreso in the rural areas. Not that northern rural areas are much better, of course. My girlfriends parents live in Blythewood, SC (ex-urban Columbia), and it's quite visible there. Especially if you make a "wrong turn".

But once you see it in the first place, you notice it everywhere. I was at a gas station in Columbia, and there were 3-4 other cars there, ALL of them had some sort of bumper stickers ranging from confederate flags to "Demand Reparations".

Also, one thing us Northerners don't do is re-create Civil War battles (besides maybe Gettysburg for the same reasons as Williamsburg re-creates Revolutionary War battles). I don't think it's all the love of posturing and strategy, the whole "chess battle", etc. You don't see people recreating WWII battles or Vietnam...

and let's not forget that Erie County is only a paltry 13% African American.
and yes the suburbs are racist, Cheektowaga probably being the worst, but the city of Buffalo is getting more and more diverse and people co-exist peacefully, for the most part.

What is all this racist shit you guys are claiming about Buffalo. Buffalo and its burbs are no more racist than any other city in America. Maybe we (american cities) aren't to the point where Toronto is, but this is rediculous claiming that Buffalo and Cheektovegas are on par with Atlanta and south in terms of racism. It was the abolitionists from the north east including Buffalo that fought fiercly to end slavery and continue today to fight for equality.

DT they're still finding skeletons hanging in trees and cleaning up rubble from burned black churches down in B-ham area. So someone from B-ham has no room to come in accusing a much more open city (Buffalo) of being more racist than the south. That isn't even logical, let alone a fact. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

That better not affect all the privileges of my ex-employee Citibank account! Possibly a good thing my father left them 10 years ago...

I like M&T, but I don't have an account there because my Citibank one is better. The flyers for free stuff upon signing up are enticing, but how many bank accounts does one need in just one city?
I'm not a banking insider, but... if they are just buying up branches it should not have any affect on your Citibank account. You'll still have an account with Citibank, you just may not have a branch nearby anymore.

It would only impact your account if M&T were actually buying Citibank, as in like THE WHOLE COMPANY, which they're not... as far as i know

So your account should be unchanged, but won't have any convenient branch locations to go in person. If you do all your banking online or over the phone you shouldn't even notice.


:)

I was thinking that might be more along the lines of what would actually happen. So the question becomes do I open up an M&T account (or someone else) to have a local "cash" account, probably yeah.

That's what happened (or what would have happened) to my Bank of NH account immediately after I left the state and closed it, they (Banknorth) had just been bought by TD and changed all the accounts over, and of course now they're TD Banknorth.

Now if M&T were buying all of Citibank, whoa! That'll never happen, not in my lifetime. I'd go after Wachovia lol. Word as I read it, M&T gains efficiency in the slower-growth markets and capitlizes on their market share, while Citibank is freed to go after higher growth prospects in their bigger markets. Seems like a win-win for both.

What is all this racist shit you guys are claiming about Buffalo. Buffalo and its burbs are no more racist than any other city in America. Maybe we (american cities) aren't to the point where Toronto is, but this is rediculous claiming that Buffalo and Cheektovegas are on par with Atlanta and south in terms of racism...
Probably true. Only thing I've experienced is that some of the, let's say, people of Polish descent (not to keep harping on them) around here that I know or work with are some of the most homophobic and racist people I have ever met. I also think it's funny coincidence that their Buffalo legacy is the East Side.

My girlfriend's boss, for instance, hates Satish Mohan. Why? Because as he said it "one of them should not be running one of our towns". Too bad, Satish is the answer, and Mr. *ski is the prototypical stereotypical bitch and moan and do nothing about it Buffalonian that I am convinced is the sole reason this city is in the position it's currently in.

my main point was in regards to DT's comments and the fact that of course there are less opportunities for African Americans here because whites outnumber blacks in the Buffalo Metro by a huge percentage (that's just a fact), but commended the city for taking a step in the right direction and being progressive (black mayor, black police commissioner and black superintendent of buffalo schools).
I should not have veered off and claimed Cheektowaga to be the most racist (among the larger suburbs) in the area (certainly not the US), but talking from friends who have lived there all their lives, and DT's experiences here it sure seems to be that way (in the Buffalo Metro).
I did not defend the south or say that it is more tolerant of other races, I just agreed that Atlanta is the city where blacks per capita have the best jobs/opportunities because Atlanta is growing by leaps and bounds, and educated people from everywhere are flocking to the city.

I know how terrible the south was/can be as Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated there, after all.

Guys.....development! Remember?

This racist shit is boring.

and all of your SSP privledges are herby revoked for not leaving an apprpriate comment in Memory of Ms. Jacobs.


Jerome,

Make sure you pick up a copy of this month's WNT heritage magazine. It has a great article on Lockport with lots of pictures.

DT,you can spit all the pro-southern horseshit about it not being a racially divided place or whatever, and that may hold true in urban areas. im sorry, i lived in south carolina, and i never in my life saw so much blatant open racism as i saw there.

im not suggesting that people's mindset is anymore racist, but there is quite a bit of it spoken very loudly.
theres also quite a bit of anti-yankeeism, and don't try to deny it.

to quote a man from hartwell, georgia that i sold a TV to "i don't like y'all yankees coming down here stealing our jobs, but atleast you ain't a ******."

no lie, and the confederate flags are no lie either. plenty in SC and plenty in atlanta.

second to buffalo, i have more relatives in the atlanta area than anywhere else. not one of them is yankee(yeah back after WW2 when atlanta's economy sucked ass, they moved here) i have spent a considerable amount of time there and there are plenty of confederate flags all over. perhaps you spent so much time in the south that they dont grab your attention anymore.

im not hating on the south, but to deny the fact that a large pecentage of white southerners are still angry that they have to share a shitter with a black, well thats just plain blind.

Oh, you're not understanding me at all -- I was only referring to the urban areas. The sticks are the sticks, we avoid them -- anywhere. I'll certainly admit -- the "rebel" sentiment in South Carolina is stronger anywhere else in the South, but for obvious reasons. Afterall, they were the first to leave, and they seem to cling to that monkier.

I think the flag is truly more a backwards, rural phenomenon if anything -- if any of you have driven I-71 from Cincinnati to Columbus, you'll notice several large displays along the way that showcase the Confederate flag -- one's even about 50 feet long and is painted prominently on the top of a barn.

I'm certainly not numb to it because I despise the flag -- and stupid hicks.

What is all this racist shit you guys are claiming about Buffalo. Buffalo and its burbs are no more racist than any other city in America. Maybe we (american cities) aren't to the point where Toronto is, but this is rediculous claiming that Buffalo and Cheektovegas are on par with Atlanta and south in terms of racism. It was the abolitionists from the north east including Buffalo that fought fiercly to end slavery and continue today to fight for equality.

DT they're still finding skeletons hanging in trees and cleaning up rubble from burned black churches down in B-ham area. So someone from B-ham has no room to come in accusing a much more open city (Buffalo) of being more racist than the south. That isn't even logical, let alone a fact.

Come on, Aaron. I know you're smarter than that... There are no skeletons hanging from trees in Birmingham and in the South (which is some warped view some people have up here...).

Have you read history books about Atlanta's racial history? Since the 1940s, Atlanta's white government & business was more proactive in ending segregation than other cities. Of course it was an extremely long process that was often piecemeal, but the greatest distinction that separated Atlanta from similar cities of the time was that the great Black leadership – Martin Luther King's father & ex-mayor Maynard Jackson's grandfather among them - made an economic argument. With major companies - namely Coca-Cola - wishing to strengthen a national & international market, it was good business sense to not be associated with anything that would look bad on the news.

So, the Woodruff family of Coca-Cola pushed the city government to make concessions with Black leaders. These were very minor concessions, but enough to convince most Blacks that an effort was being made - such as hiring Black police & fire officials as early as the 1950's. Fortunately, by the 1960's a number of regional Black civil rights leaders found Atlanta safe enough to make their base, namely the SCLC, and in 1961, Mayor Ivan Allen Jr. became one of the few Southern white mayors to support desegregation of Atlanta's public schools -- long before Buffalo's schools were desegregated (which was still unconstitutionally segregating schools up until 1976).

I'm not a banking insider, but... if they are just buying up branches it should not have any affect on your Citibank account. You'll still have an account with Citibank, you just may not have a branch nearby anymore.

It would only impact your account if M&T were actually buying Citibank, as in like THE WHOLE COMPANY, which they're not... as far as i know

So your account should be unchanged, but won't have any convenient branch locations to go in person. If you do all your banking online or over the phone you shouldn't even notice.

No, they've purchased the accounts opened at those banks as well.

Jane Jacobs was possibly the smartest urbanite in history. It is sad to hear that she has passed away, but she has left quite a mark on urban planning/development and encouraged a whole generation of people to not accept crap, mediocrity or ridiculously stupid ideas that tear the urban fabric apart.
Her legacy will certainly not be forgotten, at least in our circles.

from BRising:


Hudson Street Infill Apartments
http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/upload/2006/04/HudsonTHs-thumb.jpg
by westcoastperspective

Heart of the City Neighborhoods (HCN) is working on plans to construct two, four-unit apartment buildings at 294-302 Hudson Street near Days Park in the Kleinhans neighborhood. The two and three bedroom apartments will be approximately 750 and 925 sq.ft. each and will occupy a vacant lot on Hudson at the terminus of Cottage Street. Plans by Stieglitz Snyder Architecture await final City approval.

Around the corner, HCN has begun renovations to the historic, wood-plank Victorian cottage at 44 Plymouth Avenue.

The home was built in 1853 for Thomas Bath, an Englishman who was Erie County Commissioner of Deeds and later a law clerk for Congressman John Ganson. In 2003 the FBI closed the former drug house and its future was in doubt until 2005, when with the support of community residents, the house was acquired HCN. Work should be completed this Summer. Heart of the City Neighborhoods’ mission is to create, facilitate and support housing and neighborhood development in the central core of the City of Buffalo. The organization is housed at 42 Plymouth Avenue. HCN will also be renovating an abandoned home at 23 Plymouth Avenue where work will begin in coming weeks.

In August, the Kleinhans community will be commemorating 170 years of Plymouth Avenue's history, from its origins as a remote pastoral lane to the diverse urban neighborhood of today. Plymouth Avenue’s story and housing will be showcased in a full day of planned events including walking tours, seminars, open houses, and other community activities. Details are available on the Kleinhans Community Association website and will be provided on Buffalo RIsing as the event draws closer.

Rendering courtesy of HCN and Kleinhans Community Association.
http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/04/hudson_street_infill_apar.php#more

also from BuffaloRising:

Build It... But Don't Wait For Them To Come

by queenseyes

http://www.buffalorising.com/arts/archives/upload/2006/04/johnsonwkrfjkrkfjr.jpg
That's the general train of thought behind Michael Ferdman's (partner in the Johnson project featured above) new project on Elmwood Avenue. Michael is a former president of Forever Elmwood who knows what it takes to secure a tenant. He already has a few potential businesses in mind, but there is one in particular which has got me excited. The new first-floor commercial space will not be ready until August, so what better time than now to secure an occupant.

For years I heard Michael talk about a number of types of stores that he thought would perform exceptionally well on Elmwood. One idea that stands out was simply an everyday men's clothing store that would sell items like boxers, chinos, Polo shirts, socks, jackets and coats, etc. So when he got involved with this new project he decided that he was going to put together a proposal for a handful of investors in order to pool some financial resources. As those investors were being sought, Mike took the bull by the horns and went looking for someone that was interested in owning/running this exact type of store. If he could find a person with the right credentials, then he would have the final piece to the puzzle.

The person that he was looking for needed to have a wealth of experience managing the day-today operations of a clothing store. Michael has been busy talking to one person in particular who has shared the dream (for quite a long time) of opening this same sort of store. The only thing that prevented this person from doing so (up until now) was the lack of capital. Could this really be the seed of a successful partnership between landlord, investors, and future storeowner?

The deal is still in the works and is not a 'go' quite yet, but the plans are in place and the financials are in the works. If everything goes according to plan, Elmwood will (hopefully) have a new men's shop and Michael Ferdman (and company) will have a new tenant. It's not everyday that the stars align for multiple parties involved in a project of this nature. Bonus: If the project is a success, the new store operator is also planning on incorporating ladies fashions into the mix as well. Cross your fingers.

Michael could have waited for tenants to come to him... instead he took the proactive route and formulated a strategy that would re-invest in his project. And he says he'll do it again if the circumstances present themselves. He is so excited about the potentail outcome that he is willing to hear about more ideas that would spur economic growth along Elmwood. If you have been thinking of investing in your city, call Mike Ferdman (716-566-1556). There are always new business opportunities to take part in... and new amenities that the city needs. Sometimes it takes someone who has been around the block a few times to ‘get’ what it takes to get things done. Now, let's get a stereo shop downtown, or any other type of business that the city is lacking. Be a part of growing Buffalo.

Apartment Update: The nine apartments will also be ready for occupancy in August. Off street parking, appliances, some lofts, some balconies, turnkey spaces. Call Paul Johnson for prices: (716) 886-0002

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/04/build_it_but_dont_wait_fo.php

OK - summary.

RIP to Jane Jacobs and her zany hairdo.

Polish people suck.

Nice residential projects.

Guys.....development! Remember?

This racist shit is boring.

and all of your SSP privledges are herby revoked for not leaving an apprpriate comment in Memory of Ms. Jacobs.


Jerome,

Make sure you pick up a copy of this month's WNT heritage magazine. It has a great article on Lockport with lots of pictures.


SSP....ummmm this is SSC buddy. :)

to WIGS and DT...DT's experiences in Cheektovegas are not a representation of what Cheektowaga really is...he's got no room to talk, i've never heard anyone say such negative things against Poles my entire life haha...my parents live in the Cheek, and my entire family is from there, and just because it is a white burb doesn't imply it is the most racist place in the history of America. We have black neighbors next door and on our street and they come over during the summer and everyone in the hood knows everyone...and from the examples you've given, referring to Mohan as "them" is pretty weak in comparison to the racism in the south still. Again, this is not a Buffalo (Cheek) issue, any kind of indirect racism is an American issue.

Sadly... SSC sucks :D

and DT is just a hypocrite because his bf was raised Polish by adoptive parents and he now has a home in the predominantly polish suburb known as cheektowaga :laugh:

ok, steels right.
jane jacobs... im not a planner, but respect where respect is due. rest well.
DT, sorry i didnt mean to get so worked up. i hope you weren't offended.

how about those protesters at forest and elmwood?

anyone drive by there? is it five or six hippies and a few old folks?

Not at all... I think we're on the same page when it comes to the flag.

And I'm NOT a homeowner here until 10:00 AM tomorrow.

:tongue3:

^Justin, you know I'm kidding. It's a nice house that will be ultra fab when renovated!

Can I have the awnings and pinecone lamps? LOL :)

how about those protesters at forest and elmwood?

anyone drive by there? is it five or six hippies and a few old folks?

no, but it's ridiculous. did you see this post on BuffaloRising?

Say NO to Affluent Tourists and Business Travellers? (http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/04/say_no_to_affluent_touris.php) :lol:

Can I have the awnings and pinecone lamps? LOL :)

no miketoronto from SSP will want the pinecone lamps :lol:

sarge, YES, you may. They're actually coming down TOMORROW! Eeee!

And yes, WIGS is right... he saw my house last night. With WORK, it'll be nice...

Best of all?!?! The 70s computerized doorbell system can play DIXIE!

:D

no, but it's ridiculous. did you see this post on BuffaloRising?

Say NO to Affluent Tourists and Business Travellers? (http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/04/say_no_to_affluent_touris.php) :lol:


yes, i refrained from posting there because i would have very been rude.

i honestly thought the hotel thing had been beaten to death :bash: in public meetings and every other form of public forum to the point where just about everyone agreed on it.
im assuming these are the 20 people who didn't.

on the other hand it was nice to see that most of the buffalo rising readers(well, posters) are for the hotel.

SSP....ummmm this is SSC buddy. :)


Yes I know but everyone knows SSC is a joke so we have to have a real punishment

You have these idiots everywhere, not just Buffalo.

It just seems worse here because we need these things more.

We can use DT's house as a development project. We will need to change the thread name to Buffalo / Cheektowaga Development news

We should, I'm adding ground level retail and a parking deck concealed with liner buildings.

j/k

steel: Buffalo / Metro Community News lol, bad pun... worse that coupon-laden rag of a "newspaper"

We should, I'm adding ground level retail and a parking deck concealed with liner buildings.

j/k

complete with a bar called "Wally's" or "Eddie's" ? :lol:

LOL, everyone turn to FOX... The South Park episode is about new Indian Casinos :D

We should, I'm adding ground level retail and a parking deck concealed with liner buildings.

j/k
Just make sure you use Union contractors, and public hearings so that that protesters will still say they didn't have a voice.

Family Guy the other night (a repeat) had an Indian Casino as well, "Geronimo's Palace".

Buffalo personal income ahead of U.S. average
Business First of Buffalo - 10:08 AM EDT Wednesday

The federal government has some good news on the Buffalo metropolitan area economy.

New figures from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis show the growth rate for per capita personal income here has risen ahead of the national average.

From 2003 to 2004 -- the most recent years analyzed by BEA -- per capita personal income was up 5.2 percent in the Buffalo metro compared to 5 percent for the nation as a whole. The government defines per capita personal income as the personal income of residents of a given area divided by the resident population of the area.

In dollar amounts, the local per capita personal income in 2004 was $31,006, placing Buffalo 132nd nationally, and up from $29,477 in 2003. That was below the U.S. average of $33,050.

Among upstate metros, per capita personal income in the Albany-Schenectady-Troy area was $33,950 in 2004, 69th best in the U.S. Rochester, at $32,303, was 97th. With per capita personal income of $29,244, Syracuse ranked 156th, Binghamton, at $26,836, was 258th, and Utica-Rome, at $25.9 billion, placed 297th out of 361 metrpolitan statistical areas (MSAs).

Total personal income, or TPI, growth in the Buffalo area lagged the rest of the nation, however. Locally, TPI grew at 4.8 percent to $35.8 billion from 2003 to 2004, compared to the national growth rate of 6 percent.

That figure is impacted by job and population growth and declines. Like Buffalo, all other upstate metros trailed the overall national TPI increase. Rochester, with TPI of $33.6 billion, mirrored Buffalo's gain of 4.8 percent. Albany's TPI was $28.7 billion, up 5.2 percent, followed by Syracuse at $19.6 billion, an increase of 4.5 percent. Also, Utica-Rome had TPI of $7.7 biilion, an increase of $7.7 billion, and Binghamton, at $6.7 billion, up 3.9 percent.

BEA reported Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, Conn., continued to have the highest per capita income of all metro areas in 2004 with an average income of $62,979. That was nearly double the national average and more than four times greater than the last place metro, McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, Texas, which had an average income of $15,460.

This probably does not have a lot to do with population growth or lack thereof but according to recent voter registration reports the number of registered voters in Erie County rose from 547,839 in 2005 to 561,137 in 2006. An increase of 13,298. Of this total 333,580 are Democrats and 191,241 are Republicans. The rest are either other or no party.

Driving by on Exchange Street about an hour ago (1:00 PM) I noticed a building that's on Seneca Street that looks like it's getting a make-over. It's the one right next to Dunn Tire Park (or Pilot Field, if you prefer) and I think the State Dept of Transportaiton might be moving into it, since they are being kicked out of the Donovan Building. This is the building that used to be owned by Empire Bank (I think) and it's been vacant a long time. It looks like they're installing new windows on the side that faces the ball park and the Thruway, and the new ones look bigger and closer to the original size. Currently, the building looks weird because they filled in most of the huge, arched windows and threw in a small, square window in each space. It would be great to see the building restored to something closer to what was there originally. Of course, I could be over reacting, and maybe they're doing something to the building much less exciting. Anyone know anything about this?

Here is the latest on the World of Oz Park in Wheatfield. A public hearing is to be held Moday May 1, 2006. The link also contains the proposed site plan. Figure 5 at the bottom of the page. I don't know why they would bother taking it this far if they did not think they could obtain funding.

http://wheatfield.ny.us/departments/BuildingDepartment/newdevelopment/OZ/index.html

^ the company URS is going to be doing most of the work on this...I've put in a few phone calls to them recently to get even more information (and to get some traffic work :) ). It's going to be a few months before they get to the point of doing studies supposedly.

That area could certainly use more traffic - and the jobs that would come with it.

^ Me and one of my co-workers (who has been in this office for 30 years) were reading through that info on the Town of Wheatfield website...I believe they want to extend LaSalle Pkwy. My co-worker was telling me that this same issue came up with some other development 10 or so years ago, and that it would be a nightmare to even attempt to do anything with LaSalle Pkwy. I guess we'll just have to see.

Driving by on Exchange Street about an hour ago (1:00 PM) I noticed a building that's on Seneca Street that looks like it's getting a make-over. It's the one right next to Dunn Tire Park (or Pilot Field, if you prefer) and I think the State Dept of Transportaiton might be moving into it, since they are being kicked out of the Donovan Building. This is the building that used to be owned by Empire Bank (I think) and it's been vacant a long time. It looks like they're installing new windows on the side that faces the ball park and the Thruway, and the new ones look bigger and closer to the original size. Currently, the building looks weird because they filled in most of the huge, arched windows and threw in a small, square window in each space. It would be great to see the building restored to something closer to what was there originally. Of course, I could be over reacting, and maybe they're doing something to the building much less exciting. Anyone know anything about this?

That's 100 Seneca Street- Paladino is renovating it for the NYSDOT. They are really stingy as far as releasing renderings or plans...Maybe because they don't want everyone to see how crummy it will be until it is done. I've never seen plans for this project, Courtyard Mall, or Waterfront Village.

In my own development new, I am now officially a homeowner here.

I've already gotten my official "Welcome to Cheektowaga" package containing plastic pink flamingos and pierogies.

In my own development new, I am now officially a homeowner here.

I've already gotten my official "Welcome to Cheektowaga" package containing plastic pink flamingos and pierogies.

Congrats!

WHAT!? No butter lambs! :lol:

Buffalo Rising reports that there is a high likelyhood of a swank new sushi joint opening on Auburn near Elmwood. This is in addition to a new place opening in Kunis old spot and I think they also talked about a sushi place on Lexington a few weeks back

Sushi overload!

That's 100 Seneca Street- Paladino is renovating it for the NYSDOT.
Isn't the Maguire Group in the building? Anyways, it'll be nice to see the "Big E" clock/thermometer finally replaced.
I believe they want to extend LaSalle Pkwy. My co-worker was telling me that this same issue came up with some other development 10 or so years ago, and that it would be a nightmare to even attempt to do anything with LaSalle Pkwy. I guess we'll just have to see.
Yes they do, the plan is to extend it to Liberty Drive and dump it into the park. I would imagine the DOT probably owns quite a chunk of ROW there, and would probably try to fetch a handsome ransom for it. Google Earth over the end of it and look SE over the strip of vacant land where a future extension would go.

Nope, no butter lambs here.


But for some REAL funk, check this out... LAYERS of Cheektowaga history, right HERE!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2025085#post2025085

^^ My apartment complex (in Orchard Park/Hamburg) was built during the 70's, and recently remodeled. When we were given a tour (exactly a year ago today), some of the rooms had these blocked of squares of molding (maybe 3'x4' or so) with wallpaper inside them (which apparently alot of people like). Word was, in the 70s when the place was built, those squares were filled with velvet carpeting. Obviously they were all removed, in fact my apartment doesn't even have the molding anymore. We also have bare brick walls in the kitchen, which alot of people also like. I guess variation is a good thing...

I like the reference to Funk Home Remodeling in the SSP thread! If I may add, when you get the inside done and are ready to attack the outside, call Funk Lawn Care, 330 Fillmore Ave, Tonawanda, 692-7180. :)

I guess my house blinded everyone and they can't reply to this thread anymore :(

Anyway you can restore that elegant red velvet wall paper? Maybe some hiostoric tax credits

Buffalo Rising reports that there is a high likelyhood of a swank new sushi joint opening on Auburn near Elmwood. This is in addition to a new place opening in Kunis old spot and I think they also talked about a sushi place on Lexington a few weeks back

There's a place on Hertel that says it will be opening soon, too.

Shouldnt somebody have started a new thread like 200 posts ago?

"Buffalo Rising reports that there is a high likelyhood of a swank new sushi joint opening on Auburn near Elmwood. This is in addition to a new place opening in Kunis old spot and I think they also talked about a sushi place on Lexington a few weeks back"

My sister has been telling me about this for weeks. She isnt very good with details, but she works with the daughter of somebody who owns a restaurant downtown and they said they were planning on opening the sushi place on Hertel. So, yes, I can confirm those rumours to be true. Also, the restaurant between parkside and Colvin that is underconstruction has been making alot of progress. It looks like when completed it will be a fairly attractive building. The window openings are huuuuuuuuuuge. (*Fuscillo voice)

Thank goodness. The more sushi, the better. I've grown tired of the sushi drought in Buffalo - I have to go to Canada to get my fix here.

Property taxes rose 42% over 5 years and are 70% above national average

By MATTHEW SPINA
News Staff Reporter
4/27/2006


New York is running away with the title of the nation's highest-taxed state. A new report shows property taxes outside New York City rose by 42 percent from 2000 to 2005 - three times the inflation rate - and are now more than 70 percent above the national average.

"Property taxes are by far the largest and fastest-growing component of most New Yorkers' tax bills," State Comptroller Alan G. Hevesi says in a report by his office. "Because local governments have little choice but to raise property taxes or cut services when other revenues fall short during tough economic times, this trend will likely continue."

There is a dose of consolation for Erie County and its tax-cut movement. Erie's assorted property tax bills rose more slowly than the state average over the six years, and its per-capita burden was among the state's lowest. But Erie County government still raised its comparatively low property tax by 20 percent for 2006 and lifted its sales tax to New York's second-highest level, 8.75 percent. The national sales-tax average is 5.93 percent.

Figure in the myriad fees New Yorkers pay and other annoyances - such as Thruway commuter tolls and the fact potable water costs more here at the edge of Lake Erie than in Arizona's desert - and you have a recipe for hard-baked frustration.

"To be honest, the move back has been a huge disappointment," said John Przybyla, who lived for 20 years in Phoenix and returned to Western New York last year. "Sure I got more house for my money, but I'm earning less and spending more, thanks to property taxes and utilities. My kids have heard me say that we're going broke slowly.

"I really don't know how people can afford to live here. It's nice to have family close by," he said, "but that doesn't pay the bills."

The comptroller's report says that from 2000 to 2005 the economic spinoff of the recession and the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, reduced state aid and slowed local revenue, while the costs for employee health care and benefits grew. That would include the money local governments gave the state retirement system, which Hevesi manages, to cover their employees.

Hevesi's report concluded that tax exemptions and property tax rebates, which the State Legislature arranged this year and which Gov. George E. Pataki vetoed, might provide short-term relief, but they really transfer the burden to other forms of taxation.

Hevesi's researchers excluded New York City from many of their calculations because the city charges an income tax that allows it to lessen its property tax rates. In a 22-page report, the researchers disclosed these findings:

All classes of government contributed to the acceleration in property tax bills, including school districts. Public schools raised their levies an average 7.3 percent a year, outpacing inflation and the resources of the STAR program that softens the blow for homeowners.

Downstate is worse off than upstate. Taxpayers in Nassau, Putnam, Rockland, Suffolk and Westchester counties have household property tax burdens that exceed $7,000 and are more than twice the statewide average. In contrast, household property tax burdens in several western and northern counties, including Cayuga, Chemung, Erie, Herkimer, Tioga and Wyoming, are 20 percent below the statewide average, or less than $3,400.

New York's local taxes, including its sales taxes, mortgage recording taxes and myriad others, make it the highest taxed state. And local taxes, at $67 per $1,000 of personal income in 2002, were more than 60 percent higher than the national average of $42. Maine is the next highest state at $55, nearly 20 percent lower than New York.

Fire districts receive more than 90 percent of their revenue from property taxes. School districts and towns depend on them for about half of their income, villages about 45 percent. Counties and cities receive about one-quarter of their revenue from property taxes because they typically receive significant revenue from sales taxes.

Erie County's property tax levy reached $1,335 a person in 2005, slightly less than the statewide median of $1,502 and less than most other counties, larger and smaller.

That might be a good sign for the taxpayers' group Free Buffalo, whose founder, James Ostrowski, senses that taxpayer anger may have persuaded some towns to ease back on property tax increases last year. Still, there is a long way to go, he says.

"As far as blaming 9/11 for tax increases, I don't buy that," Ostrowski said. "It seems to me that, when the economy suffers, the government should spend less money, that's all. Of course, the trend is that governments spend more money every year, and that is what our group is trying to change. And we are trying to get at the structural reasons for that, and one is that public salaries are out of whack with private-sector salaries.

From today's Buffalo News
http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20060428/1020924.asp

New IS Lofts apartment complex hits market completely leased
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Rents range from $500 to $850 a month

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Business Reporter
4/28/2006

Rocco Termini of Signature Development checks out one of the new apartments at the IS Lofts on Oak Street.

Impossibly shiny wood floors, exposed brick walls, granite counter tops, patios, and rents ranging from $500 to $850 per month - welcome to IS Lofts, downtown Buffalo's newest entry in the apartment market.
The 24 contemporary apartments, which had their public unveiling Thursday in the former Kastings Flower Warehouse at 362 Oak St., are the latest offering from Signature Development.

"We're hitting the market 100 percent leased and on budget," said Signature principal Rocco Termini. "They're so cool and so well-priced, that we didn't even have to advertised. They rented through word of mouth."

Termini and business partner David Burke spent $4.3 million to convert the nearly 90-year-old, three story brick and wood-framed warehouse to "work force rate" housing that's attracted a youthful collection that includes teachers, freshman bankers, hospitality industry workers and soon-to-be college grads.

Under income guidelines for tenants residing in "work force rate" developments, residents' incomes cannot exceed 90 percent of the median income, which in Buffalo is $37,000 a year.

"This is a particularly satisfying project because by tapping into income-linked tax credits for a portion of the funding, we were able to bring these beautiful units to the market at a price young workers can afford," Termini said.

One of IS Lofts inaugural tenants is a college student who will graduate next month from a university in Philadelphia.

"He wanted a really cool apartment and wanted to be downtown. At IS he can pay well under $1,000 a month for something that would run $2,500 in Philly," Termini said.

In addition to $2.1 million in low-income tax credits from the New York State Department of Housing and Community Renewal, the project also received $1.1 million in permanent financing through the Community Preservation Corporation (CPC). The not-for-profit mortgage lender will sell bonds to back the loan through the New York State Common Retirement Fund.

"CPC is very pleased to partner with the city and state in helping to develop much-needed rental housing in downtown Buffalo. Residential development is vitally important to stabilizing and strengthening the city's downtown core area," said CPC President and CEO Michael D. Lappin.

In the past three years, some 400 new apartments have been developed in Buffalo's downtown. Another 350 apartments, townhouses and condominiums are currently on the drawing board or under construction, including the Granite Works development in the 800-block of Main Street, the ArtSpace project in the 1200-block of Main Street, and the $40 million expansion of Waterfront Village.

With the opening of IS Lofts, Signature now counts 105 apartments in its barely 3-year-old downtown housing portfolio. Termini and Burke debuted Ellicott Lofts at 489 Ellicott St. in 2003, converting the former homes of Frontier Steam & Water and Fingeret Produce into 38 apartments.

In late 2004, they turned the former Wehle Electric building at 461 Ellicott St. into the Washington Market food store and cafe, with office space on the upper floors. Last year, they converted the former Buffalo Alternative High School into Oak School Apartments at 260 Oak St.

And in October, the new-build Ellicott Commons will open with another 30 units, next door to Ellicott Lofts.

"Back when we started Ellicott Lofts we had to convince people there was a market for downtown housing. Now we're opening IS Lofts fully leased," Termini said. "I think there's still room to grow because every price range is a different market. The downtown housing market can continue to grow as long as there is a mix of product, high-end, low-end and in the middle."

Downstate is worse off than upstate.
Ahh hah hah!

In taxes, perhaps. Let's look at economies and their relative abilities to handle these taxes, I think you'll see an ever so slightly different story.

Action happening today at that very cool (but long EMPTY) restaurant building on Elmwood next to BK. Is this where one of the Sushi places is going??

Ahh hah hah!

In taxes, perhaps. Let's look at economies and their relative abilities to handle these taxes, I think you'll see an ever so slightly different story.

Yeah they may pay slightly more in property taxes but it is on houses 10x the value of Buffalo homes.

^That's a good thing. It's called equity.

Good if you ever intend to sell, at least. Otherwise if you kick off, who really cares lol.

I'm just trying to get equity into my car right now lol. Being upside down is not fun. Another 4 months or so, cracked $1000 today...

Problem with house equity is that all houses in an area rise at the same rate so unless you move someplace cheaper you never get the money. Of course your kids get the money when you croak. I guess that is a benefit.


Hey did you guys see the movie I made over on BRO

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/04/good_by_winter_1.php

Problem with house equity is that all houses in an area rise at the same rate so unless you move someplace cheaper you never get the money. Of course your kids get the money when you croak. I guess that is a benefit.
Or as we've seen alot lately with the housing boom, it coaxes you into over-borrowing against it, money which technically isn't "real". In which case if prices drop (which has happened before), you're screwed. But in that case, I'd think you deserved it.

closed. go to new thread.