Trump Vancouver?!? Trump Calgary?!? | Discussion

[j4893k]

That's right! While it's not official... I have heard from a very reliable source (a member of Trillion (big Canadian life insurance comany under Transamerica... owned by Aegon (NED)) that works a lot with Trump) that Trillion & Trump are discussing building two huge towers in Vancouver & Calgary.

Trillion is definately on Trumps good side as they have bought many, many residences in Trump Toronto as well as a few penthouses.

Apparantly... Trump has been looking to expand in the Canadian market and he's eyeing Vancouver and Calgary.

I hope to see more on this in the future! Till then we can only wait and...

:dance:

[Rhino]

I wonder how big ? If they built the Van tower down town by Shangra La and the Twisty Building , or in Surrey next to that new Big tower that will be built there, that would make a great SKY line .

[j4893k]

Is that massive Surrey tower still going through?

[Plumber73]

^^ Only a dream now I think. It seems the whole idea died after the last election for Surrey mayor. I haven't heard a peep about it since.

[WinnipegPatriot]

Considering Trump is building in New Orleans, although it is probably an effort to help rebuild the city and thus an act of philanthropy, it would be a sound investment building in either city.

[valantino]

What's the fascination with Trump? The guy & his work screams 1985 which is far from a good thing

[thryve]

There's nothing interesting about Trump to me, really... I don't see why people go so wild over him.

Oh well... it's sort of exciting in one way, which is that you know these cities are getting new towers.... I think Calgary would be especially excited about this... most residents there (or Canadians for that matter) won't believe the news!

-thryve

p.s., I guess I hate Trump, but look forward to the Trump towers in these cities if they are done well

[canada cowboy]

^ As much as I'd love to see it here, I think it would be a stretch for Calgary. Vancouver is possible, since Shangri-La and Fairmont Pacific Rim are being built now.

It would be a brand-new, untested market for Calgary...has Trump ever done that? It seems to me that they are never the first in to a city with their high-end condo/hotel chain.

[Rhino]

the reason people like Trump is easy . Trump means stability , well he does now . He means success , and Dignity that only a new plad pair of pants and shag carpet can instill.

[canada cowboy]

^Trump has been almost bankrupt a few times - I believe the most recent was just a few years ago. Trump really means gawdy, overly done/in-excess style...gold-plated everything.

You do have to admire how he's built on his "brand" over the past 10 years though.

EDIT: Come to think of it, is he building something in Dubai yet? They'd love his style over there.

[j4893k]

There's nothing interesting about Trump to me, really... I don't see why people go so wild over him.

Oh well... it's sort of exciting in one way, which is that you know these cities are getting new towers.... I think Calgary would be especially excited about this... most residents there (or Canadians for that matter) won't believe the news!

-thryve

p.s., I guess I hate Trump, but look forward to the Trump towers in these cities if they are done well

Yeah... I really don't like the guy either but I'm just looking forward to 2 new buildings. Hopefully they will be nice looking.

[Rhino]

Gawdy , overly done , like shag carpet and Plad pants . The thing is he is still someone that draws attention. Anything that puts spot lights on Calgary and Vancouver is a good thing , even if it has plad pants. .. ( a little to 80's )

[mr.x]

awesome!

[alexbez]

Would they be able to increase the height limit in Vancouver for a Trump tower, or would he actually (doubtedly) settle for a wannabe skyscraper? Could be crazy though!

[WinnipegPatriot]

Look past Donald's taste (for the most part), and envision Calgary receiving the likes of....

http://www.walterpierce.com/images/No%20Trump1.jpg

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/NearNorthSide/TrumpTower-009.jpg

[Tuscani01]

^Trump has been almost bankrupt a few times - I believe the most recent was just a few years ago. Trump really means gawdy, overly done/in-excess style...gold-plated everything.

You do have to admire how he's built on his "brand" over the past 10 years though.

EDIT: Come to think of it, is he building something in Dubai yet? They'd love his style over there.

His casinos have almost gone bankrupt, not himself.

[valantino]

Look past Donald's taste (for the most part), and envision Calgary receiving the likes of....

http://www.walterpierce.com/images/No%20Trump1.jpg

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/NearNorthSide/TrumpTower-009.jpg


He may be only looking to expand his management company and namesake without actually developing property (although, unlike Toronto, I can't imagine a development bearing his name not selling out in a day in Calgary)

[j4893k]

Nope... They were specificly talking about building towers.

[superman987]

I can definitely see it in Vancouver, especially with the succes of Shangri La, but I don't think Calgary has enough money and people to buy his condos. The prices are cosidered over priced just because of the "Trump Name". Thats only though if the prices are anywhere near Toronto's.

[WinnipegPatriot]

Oh I think enough Calgarians have sufficient funds to buy...

[Rhino]

Is Calgary ready ? This would mean taking a step on to Even more of the worlds stage. this could be just what Calgary has been waiting for.

[WinnipegPatriot]

Well, the condo craze is alive and well in Calgary, but is its zenith near? or, will it be a continuous phenomena like Vancouver? I would say that as long as the city continues to attract 20k people a year, the demand will be present. Plus, the growth in those 18-24 will be very high, and with housing quite expensive, for first time buyers especially, the condos are attractive.

[thryve]

It's so funny.. Calgary has gone from being a no-one city (don't take that personally) and now, I have noticed on SSC people pitting it against some huge world cities... it's quite exciting.

I can see Calgary getting a Trump tower... crazy!!!

-thryve

[samsonyuen]

It would seem a little strange to have Trump in Calgary as well. Although, I guess with him opening in Tampa as well, Calgary's not too much of a stretch...

[WinnipegPatriot]

Hell, trump Calgary would probably be built before the damn Trump Toronto gets off the ground.

[rise_against]

^^That would be impressive because its supposed to start construction by the end of this year or early next year. But i would love to see some trump towers in these two cities. It would be interesting though to see Calgary get a tower like this over Montreal. Maybe a sign in a shift in power? BTW what is up with that "twisty" tower in Vancouver is that goign to be built?

[WinnipegPatriot]

No way in hell Trump would build in Montreal--too unstable in his eyes no doubt.

[Skybean]

Expand the market? He can't even sell in Toronto :(

[j4893k]

Well... Bring the market to cities that can handle it. m))

[Filip]

Well... Bring the market to cities that can handle it. m))
If Canada's largest market can't...

[j4893k]

How much of Trump Toronto is left anyway? Can't be very much.

[mr.x]

Unless something very very drastic happens to the market here in Vancouver, I have no doubt on Vancouver being able to handle a mega Trump project. Just take a look at how quickly Shangri-la sold out.

I'd think Trump would have his eyes set on a site that doesn't block view corridors so he can build sky high.

[Filip]

How much of Trump Toronto is left anyway? Can't be very much.
Last I heard around 85% for the hotel units and 50% for the condos.. Tho I'm not too sure on the condos at this point.

Whatever happens in the end, this was a gigantic, and very expensive condos to sell, the location sucks too. I'm pretty surprised it got this far!

[j4893k]

Unless something very very drastic happens to the market here in Vancouver, I have no doubt on Vancouver being able to handle a mega Trump project. Just take a look at how quickly Shangri-la sold out.

I'd think Trump would have his eyes set on a site that doesn't block view corridors so he can build sky high.
Not to mention the towers that sold in Burnaby (?) within 2 hours... And the countless other condos that sell out at amazing rates.

[krazycanuck]

Calgary is home to alot of very rich people. The highest income in Canada in fact. Those are the same people who will buy from Trump simply for the name.

[rt_0891]

If Canada's largest market can't...

It's not Canada's strongest real-estate market though... the growth is out West. ;)

I think Trump fits perfectly with Calgary's new embrace of material wealth and luxury, and would sell out given the proper location. As for Vancouver, trump could go for a resort-like project in West/North Vancouver, Westside (or even White Rock), perhaps?

[Joev]

I'd love to see a Trump building in Vancouver, but I think it would have to be downtown; hopefully it would look even better than his hair.

As for Calgary, no doubt it is ready, no matter what anyone says, watch Calgary go - it's amazing; why isn't it the Dubai of Canada already?

[superman987]

[QUOTE=Filip]Last I heard around 85% for the hotel units and 50% for the condos.. Tho I'm not too sure on the condos at this point.
!


So how much do they need to get in the ground and start?

[Skybean]

Not to mention the towers that sold in Burnaby (?) within 2 hours... And the countless other condos that sell out at amazing rates.

It's not the same with a Trump property.

It's not like Toronto is not selling fast, there is a glut of residentials here though. Cityplace, Maple Leaf Square and generally cheaper condos still sell out within weeks. Price and location are also factors.

Especially price. Canadians are cheap.

[Wonderwall]

Or maybe we don't think things are classy just because they appear on t.v. Remember "I wanna be a hilton?" Me neither.

Vancouver is full, isn't it? Didn't CDBE just say so?

[cmd uw]

Calgary is home to alot of very rich people. The highest income in Canada in fact. Those are the same people who will buy from Trump simply for the name.
Yes, but it still does not have the critical mass to support such luxury developments. In fact, Canada in general is just breaking into that market with some super-highend developments proposed or U/C in Vancouver and Toronto.

[duff+eglin]

[QUOTE=rt_0891]It's not Canada's strongest real-estate market though... the growth is out West. ;)

The growth is out west? Here is an excerpt from a post someone made on the Toronto board:

According to StatsCan (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a.htm) from July 1 2004 to July 1 2005 Toronto (CMA) added more people (90 000 - an aberration it's so low) than the CMAs of Van (34 000), Cal (22 000), Edmonton (14 000), Winnipeg (4 000), Victoria (5 000) put together. On top of that the CMA of Toronto is about to surpass all of them together in total population if it hasn't already.

And just in case there are any deluded westerners out there (and I know there are because I heard them on CPAC during the campaign) the gap in provincial populations (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm) (combined) is also growing.

[rt_0891]

The growth is out west? Here is an excerpt from a post someone made on the Toronto board:


First, when I'm talking about growth, it's mainly about economic growth, not population growth. Both are desirable, but one would desire the former over the latter. If GDP per capita declines/stagnates, the chance of a construction boom is highly unlikely.

Second, your quote wouldn't matter, since the real estate markets in the West are not oversaturated yet. Toronto got a headstart in the condo boom, and now it's moderating due to a equilibrium of demand and supply. This hasn't been reached yet in the West, especially in Calgary (oil & growth) and Vancouver (lack of land). If it wasn't for the lack of construction workers, it would be growing faster than it is now.

Next time, don't just post a random quote out of nowhere to justify an argument. It's childish at best. According to the latest census, Alberta has had a recent surge of population growth, so I doubt those stats you posted are exactly up-to-date.

[duff+eglin]

Well the point is you clarified your comment. Some people might have taken what you said to mean that more units are/will be needed in Van/Cal than in Toronto to meet demand due to population growth. Toronto's population lead keeps growing compared to all of those cities listed combined. Click on the link if you don't believe me and you'll see it isn't just for that year. I was only going by StatsCan but maybe you have a better source, I don't know.

Anyway, no need to take it as an affront. Toronto is growing fast but I wouldn't compare our construction to Shanghai's. Doesn't mean I think TO is a bad city.

As for being childish, I don't see any stagnation in any of the cities and the quote pertains directly to growth so it is hardly random. Even if it wasn't directly addressing what you were saying such sustained growth is relevant to future demand. Besides, Toronto's GDP is growing much more than Calgary's but Calgary's is much smaller and growing at a much faster rate. Again, the actual dollar difference is growing. The chasm is widening. Doesn't mean Calgary isn't a superduper-fantastically marvellous and bodacious up and coming city, though.

[rt_0891]

Well the point is you clarified your comment. Some people might have taken what you said to mean that more units are/will be needed in Van/Cal than in Toronto to meet demand due to population growth. Toronto's population lead keeps growing compared to all of those cities listed combined. Click on the link if you don't believe me and you'll see it isn't just for that year. I was only going by StatsCan but maybe you have a better source, I don't know.

The latest stats show that from Oct 2005 to Jan 1 2006, Alberta grow by 25,363 residents, while Ontario grow by 9,541 residents. Unless the rest of Ontario is suffering from a mass exodus, I don't see how the gap between Toronto's & Calgary/Edmonton's population is growing. In the past, this may have been the case, but Alberta has now successfully marketed itself as a great job/lifestyle destination, and is now being a national magnet for skilled professionals.

Refer to this chart: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060328/d060328e.htm

Anyway, no need to take it as an affront. Toronto is growing fast but I wouldn't compare our construction to Shanghai's. Doesn't mean I think TO is a bad city.

Ok, now I have no idea what you're talking about. No one's bashing Toronto. However, the reality is that the West is indeed playing catch-up, and it's dramatically altering the shift of power (economic/political, etc.) from Central Canada to create a more stable equilibrium.

As for being childish, I don't see any stagnation in any of the cities and the quote pertains directly to growth so it is hardly random. Even if it wasn't directly addressing what you were saying such sustained growth is relevant to future demand. Besides, Toronto's GDP is growing much more than Calgary's but Calgary's is much smaller and growing at a much faster rate. Again, the actual dollar difference is growing. The chasm is widening. Doesn't mean Calgary isn't a superduper-fantastically marvellous and bodacious up and coming city, though.

I understand what you mean, but I don't think the actual GDP gap is growing. Alberta's population is booming after all (see the stats I gave above), and yet I don't see Alberta's GDP stagnating or growing at a slower pace (kind of obvious when the basic wage rate at a fast food establishment can be up to $12/hour with bonuses).

[Dino Domingo]

If Canada's largest market can't...

Ah hello people... you are selling Toronto short.

There is too much competition. It's not because there aren't enough consumers, its because there are many other appealing options that are luring them away.

[West@East_Coast]

His Toronto location sucks for condo living. There are no parks, or great restaurants, and if there are any they all shut down early because of the office crowed fleeing the city. I think Bloor/Yonge area is the place to live for high-end living in Toronto. Toronto needs a great park downtown. Too bad they wasted that entire space along the water front with all those shity condos.

[duff+eglin]

Well it looks like for the moment I need to eat crow. Based on those latest numbers you are indeed right and I will abandon my smug, condescending tone. Part of the reason I was so confident in my position, apart from the 9 month old numbers I posted, is that I have been hearing this population to the west stuff for years but StatsCan never seems to back it up in the end.

I don't have a better source than the one you provided so I will have to go with that for now. Something does seem fishy to me, though, as only 9 000 people for Ontario in a quarter when it has been averaging well over 140 000 a year for many years seems extremely low. We will have to wait and see if the numbers get revised. This is very likely but to what extent it is impossible to say. And whether or not the revision will show an even great difference in Alberta's favour is also impossible to say.

Proof of precedent of revision:
Compare this (http://web.archive.org/web/20030422112705/www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo31a.htm) and this (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm) to see Alberta's population eventually being corrected down 3 000 and Ontario's revised up 34 000 for the same period. Those numbers you posted are almost definitely going to be revised with Ontario's very likely going way up. Anything else I don't know.

Also compare this (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm) and this (http://web.archive.org/web/20030415030911/www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo05.htm) to see another example of revision. Keep doing this and you'll see all statistics get revised and in many cases for Ontario by tens of thousands since the numbers are so relatively large.

Also, I'm not quite sure I understood exactly what you were saying with respect to GDP. From what I can make out I don't think either of us think the GDPs of either province are stagnating. Clearly percentage wise Alberta is growing faster. The only thing that may be unclear is whether or not Ontario's economy is still growing more in total dollar terms. My understanding is that it is but after seeing those very surprising population numbers I guess I have to be open to at least the possibility that the numbers are not just what I suspect.

[rt_0891]

Proof of precedent of revision:
Compare this (http://web.archive.org/web/20030422112705/www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo31a.htm) and this (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm) to see Alberta's population eventually being corrected down 3 000 and Ontario's revised up 34 000 for the same period. Those numbers you posted are almost definitely going to be revised with Ontario's very likely going way up. Anything else I don't know.

Also compare this (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm) and this (http://web.archive.org/web/20030415030911/www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo05.htm) to see another example of revision. Keep doing this and you'll see all statistics get revised and in many cases for Ontario by tens of thousands since the numbers are so relatively large.

Alberta will most likely be revised upward too, given that an increasing number of people moving in have to live in temporary establishments because of a housing shortage crisis (e.g. Ft. McMurray)

Also, I'm not quite sure I understood exactly what you were saying with respect to GDP. From what I can make out I don't think either of us think the GDPs of either province are stagnating. Clearly percentage wise Alberta is growing faster. The only thing that may be unclear is whether or not Ontario's economy is still growing more in total dollar terms. My understanding is that it is but after seeing those very surprising population numbers I guess I have to be open to at least the possibility that the numbers are not just what I suspect.

The probability of Ontario growing faster than Alberta in actual dollar terms is pretty slim. At best, they'll be sync, but I seriously doubt it, especially given the large job losses in the manufacturing sector. To make matters worse, Ontario's economy is tied to the US, and any recession south of the border could trigger problems up here.

[canada cowboy]

^rt_0891 - those stats you have a link to show Ontario's population grew 127,000 from Jan/05 - Jan/06. Alberta's grew (a still impressive) 80,000. It is most interesting that Ontario's population only grew less than 10,000 people though in the last quarters of 2004 and 2005, but I think looking at the one quarter is misleading maybe??

[rt_0891]

^rt_0891 - those stats you have a link to show Ontario's population grew 127,000 from Jan/05 - Jan/06. Alberta's grew (a still impressive) 80,000. It is most interesting that Ontario's population only grew less than 10,000 people though in the last quarters of 2004 and 2005, but I think looking at the one quarter is misleading maybe??

Or it could be the start of a trend of mass migration into Alberta? ;) Only time will tell...

On the one hand, it might be on the optimistic side (maybe inflation gets out of control and kills growth?), but reality is Alberta does need more workers in the job market & housing prices (at least in Edmonton) are still reasonable. Also with the manufacturing sector faltering in Ontario with the higher loonie, low productivity growth (and possible US recession), I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Alberta overtaking Ontario in population growth (in actual terms) in 2006.

[duff+eglin]

^rt_0891 - those stats you have a link to show Ontario's population grew 127,000 from Jan/05 - Jan/06. Alberta's grew (a still impressive) 80,000. It is most interesting that Ontario's population only grew less than 10,000 people though in the last quarters of 2004 and 2005, but I think looking at the one quarter is misleading maybe??

I am just going to wait and see what actually happens with these numbers.

Easy mistake to make but Ontario actually added 137 000 in the 12 months ending January 1. This means Ontario still added more than BC and Alberta combined unless these numbers are distorted in Ontario's favour.

Also, as you said, Ontario had an even worse 4th quarter in 2004 so again we'll have to wait and see what 2006 holds.

[flatlander]

I don't care if TO is growing or not
Fact is CALGARY and the rest of ALBERTA is.
The stats don't take into account "the greater" Calgary are which has seen severa hamlets become almost cities inside of ten years. I sell directly into the housing construction market and my problem over the last ten years is to develop enough capacity to supply the insatiable demand. It's been great but difficult. MedicineHat, Reddeer, Edmonton, GrandePrairie, FortMac all bounding exponentially. There may not be OLD money out here but there is Truckloads of NEW money. New millionaires at an astounding rate. STUPID BIG houses by the neighborhood full.

[Tri-City Guy]

Imagine a Trump Tower in Victoria? All 15 stories of it! Ohhh ahhh LOL Give a whole new meaning to high tea.

[Bertez]

^^LOL....a 15 story Trump Tower wouldn't look all that bad, though I don't think you can call it a tower;);)

[Waterloo_Guy]

Why are we associating a Trump tower with growth and success? Trump is a joke; there are many developers who I would rather see in Calgary or Vancouver, some of which already are (ie., Shangri-La)

[Rhino]

spot light

[Rhino]

Recognition , double post

[duff+eglin]

I don't care if TO is growing or not
Fact is CALGARY and the rest of ALBERTA is.
The stats don't take into account "the greater" Calgary are which has seen severa hamlets become almost cities inside of ten years. I sell directly into the housing construction market and my problem over the last ten years is to develop enough capacity to supply the insatiable demand. It's been great but difficult. MedicineHat, Reddeer, Edmonton, GrandePrairie, FortMac all bounding exponentially. There may not be OLD money out here but there is Truckloads of NEW money. New millionaires at an astounding rate. STUPID BIG houses by the neighborhood full.

Good point. But for the record Toronto is boxed in by two other CMAs (one of them, Oshawa, was very recently growing at the fastest rate in the country) and this isn't included in their CMA.

Flatlander: You sound like you are doing really well congratulations on all of your success.

Also, since you are in the industry, when do you think the greater Calgary area might get up to 27 000 or so condo units being built at once as is happening right now in the other city we were talking about? Or is it too much focused on houses in Calgary for that to happen anytime soon?

[alesmarv]

I find it funy when people compare the growth rate of Toronto and Calgary and argue about the fact that Ontario added 130,000 people ina year while Alberta added 80,000. When you look at these numbers its very clear that Alberta is growing more than twice as fast as Ontario, since Ontario has more than three times the population. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that a province with 4 million people canot take in as many people as a province with 12 million people, and a city with 1 million people canot have the same amount of construction as a city with 5 million people(unless the city with 5 million people has completly zero growth).

Now here is bit of math asuming Alberta grows by 80,000 people and Ontario grows by 130,000 people per year.

yr Alberta Ontario
1 4 12
2 4.08 12.13
3 4.16 12.26
4 4.24 12.39
5 4.32 12.52

12.52 - 4.32 = 8.2 (so the difference in population has increased from 8 mill to 8.2 mill) This number is misleading and unimportant for a comparison.
12.52 divided by 4.32 = 2.89 (so Ontario is no longer three times biger than Alberta but only 2.89 times biger than Alberta) This is the important number that gives you a true comparison of growth.

Example. China 1.3 bill India 1 bill and Czech republic 10,2 mill and Slovakia 5 mill. Assume China and Czech have a 0 growth rate and Slovakia and India have a 20% growth rate. Which country would overtake the other first. Easy India even thoe it would have to grow by 300 mill people as oposed to 5.2 mill people.

So who is growing faster? easy Alberta.

See now that Ontario is only 2.89 times biger than Alberta means that its easier for Alberta to close the 8.2 million gap than the 8 million gap.
If you keep calculating this(and add the fact that growth in theory speeds up as a province or city get biger) then eventualy you will realize that in the long run the population of Alberta at this rate would eventually overtake Ontario. Althoe this would take a long time to hapen, not to mention that it would be a hard task to always maintain this growth rate.

[rise_against]

Good for Alberta...but can we stop these stupid contests???

[LordMandeep]

I know, we all know Toronto will become a city with over 3 million people with just as many living in the metro area.

And we all know Alberta is growing at a huge rate and Calgary will become a much larger city.

However i think Toronto will remain the largest city in the country for some time. I think Toronto will always be growing and all of the cities are to far behind to overtake in population.

I like how Canada is going. Vancouver is becoming a more beatiful,wonderful city every day, Calgary is now in the middle of a boom and is nice city, and Toronto is building towards becoming a major world city in ten years or so. Some of those major projects in all three of the cities will raise the profile of all the cities way way up!

[mr.x]

Good for Alberta...but can we stop these stupid contests???

FLAMES SUCK! :bash:


joking of course.

[alesmarv]

Good for Alberta...but can we stop these stupid contests???

I agree, and by the way I could care less who is beter out of Calgary and Toronto, thats because Vancouver is clearly the best. :jk:

Just wanted to explain my self beter thoe. If one city has a higher population growth rate than another city(ex. city 1 = 4% per year, city 2 = 2%) then it doesnt mater how much biger the city with the lower popualtion grwth rate is because if you would maintain the same growth rate then over time the city with the higher population would be overtaken. See its a parabola, the difference in total population between the two cities will keep geting biger year over year, but the difference in total population growth between the two cities would be geting smaller year over year. Eventualy the there would be a year when the difference in total population would remain the same and the total population growth that year would also be the same for both cities. The years folowing that year the smaller city would begin to close the gap in the total population difference, and year over year the pace would quicken just like before except that now its in favor of the smaller city. Eventualy the smaller city with the higher population growth rate would surpass the larger city in population and the gap would keep geting biger and biger.

Sorry that im rambling on about this but I just want the certain people to understand this because it frustrates me when the say but wait a minuit this city is growing faster even thoe it has a lower growth rate and its geting harder for the other city to ever catch up, this is wrong and its the complete oposite. :) :)

[duff+eglin]

I agree with you guys I'm willing to put this baby to rest.

alesmarv: I understand what you are saying and agree with it. If I had to bet on it though, given the starting points, I'd have to go with the city with the big headstart and much longer proven track record. Of course I don't fully understand all of the factors driving growth in TO/Ontario much less Calgary/Alberta so I do realize the absolute numbers could swing dramatically.

Besides, I actually want every city in Canada to grow above average OECD rates. Part of it is I am fairly new to these boards and I have just finished reading a couple threads about calgary becoming the #1 city in Canada (SSP) and having the best skyline (SSP again) and just wanted to make sure people have things in perspective. Because I know it's much better if you do as I do much better now that I understand how fast things are growing in Alberta. It truly is ridiculous.

Just today, out of curiousity, I started looking at those oil rig jobs to see how much can be made. I'm at a stage where that sounds great to me and depending on what I find I may become one of those zealous converts that you get switching sides. Then, whenever I came back here to visit, I could walk around the streets of Toronto littering everywhere just to make the streets look worse. :)

[canada cowboy]

^Calgary is a great city - and personally, I wouldn't move...however, the illusions that some seem to have that it will one day catch up to Toronto's size, or even skyline are smokin' something...okay, maybe the skyline will catch up....but that's really stretching it too - as great as it is now.

I agree though, that I'd like to see the continual growth/rise of all Canada's major cities.

Now - as far as Trump is concerned, or any of the high-end hotel/residential chains opening in Vancouver or Toronto - who buys/stays at these places? Is it repeat business travellers, or the travelling wealthy? If they attract business travellers in upper management/executive - it may work in Calgary...but not from leisure travellers.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Calgary is great, but comparing it to Toronto? Calgary has a long way to go before it can even compare itself with Vancouver, much less TO.

I like Calgary a lot; sometimes I think I'm obsessed with the place: the skyline, the development, etc. But it only makes Calgary look silly when people talk about it catching up to the city that ranks #9 on earth for highrise buildings--one of the world's principal cities.

Let's evaluate Calgary by what it has accomplished, and not in comparison to the rest of the country.

[LordMandeep]

There are way to many condo developments in Toronto for Calgary to overtake it.

Business buildings will be a different Story.
(unless they lower Business taxes back down in Toronto)

[ltsowiak]

I didn't even realize that people were comparing Calgary with Toronto. You can compare the Flames vs. the Leafs if you'd like, but you cannot compare the one metropolis with the other. Why? You would be comparing apples with oranges. TO is in a completely different realm than Calgary... and I love Calgary. The truth is that comparing Calgary to Toronto is equivilant to comparing Lethbridge or Medicine Hat to Calgary. There is no comparison.

[whitefordj]

I didn't even realize that people were comparing Calgary with Toronto. You can compare the Flames vs. the Leafs if you'd like, but you cannot compare the one metropolis with the other. Why? You would be comparing apples with oranges. TO is in a completely different realm than Calgary... and I love Calgary. The truth is that comparing Calgary to Toronto is equivilant to comparing Lethbridge or Medicine Hat to Calgary. There is no comparison.

that is just your opinion. In my opinion Calgary already has a far nicer skyline than Toronto. Its all one long nice stretch of towers. I am always hearing of how many towers there is in toronto but they are stretched over much of the city. Calgarys are all in one place and i like that. my opinion dose not mean that what i say is true, but it dose make a statement. that statement is no matter what we think someone eles will think otherwise. both are great skylines, but i prefer Calgarys to some degree. The future of Calgary's skyline is sure to be Canadas best with all that is going on over there. It just makes a better picture and can be viewed in a much more spectacular way than torontos can. Vancouvers skyline is for them that dont like big and tall, which is what this form is all about.

[Waterloo_Guy]

Actually, it's more than just his opinion, it's a fact. I don't want to come off like a prick here, but while it is certainly possible to prefer Calgary over Toronto, TO is superior in most measurable ways: ie, highrise count(#9 in the world), cultural influence and institutions, size, etc.

As I said, I like Calgary a lot, and would jump at the chance to live there, but that whole "that's your opinion" argument is clearly wrong.

[Bertez]

that is just your opinion. In my opinion Calgary already has a far nicer skyline than Toronto. Its all one long nice stretch of towers. I am always hearing of how many towers there is in toronto but they are stretched over much of the city. Calgarys are all in one place and i like that. my opinion dose not mean that what i say is true, but it dose make a statement. that statement is no matter what we think someone eles will think otherwise. both are great skylines, but i prefer Calgarys to some degree. The future of Calgary's skyline is sure to be Canadas best with all that is going on over there. It just makes a better picture and can be viewed in a much more spectacular way than torontos can. Vancouvers skyline is for them that dont like big and tall, which is what this form is all about.

How does your opinion of Calgary having a better skyline than Toronto relate to Trump building a tower in Calgary??

[Waterloo_Guy]

And again, why are people here so hot over Trump? If you think a Trump tower is prestegious or that it makes your city look important, I must disagree. Trump is second rate--Vancouver already has developments under way by bigger and better names.

[WinnipegPatriot]

^^^Just not tall enough :)

[Waterloo_Guy]

^^^Just not tall enough :)
Lol.

[whitefordj]

:crazy2: it dosent, and point taken. sorry.

[LordMandeep]

True vancouver should build bigger buildings.

[j4893k]

It can probably be expected within the next few years given that there is a rise in height in general and that space is very limited.

I hope Trump doesn't get the title as Vancouver's tallest :( If he does, it'll be a whiiiiile before another rises above his.

Of course, Trump Van & Calgay are still all just talks. I think it will be a long time till we see some solid stuff.

[vancouverite/to'er]

Imagine a Trump Tower in Victoria? All 15 stories of it! Ohhh ahhh LOL Give a whole new meaning to high tea.

Americans love Victoria. I could see Trump landing in the Inner harbour. :)

[vancouverite/to'er]

It can probably be expected within the next few years given that there is a rise in height in general and that space is very limited.

I hope Trump doesn't get the title as Vancouver's tallest :( If he does, it'll be a whiiiiile before another rises above his.

Of course, Trump Van & Calgay are still all just talks. I think it will be a long time till we see some solid stuff.

Before we get carried away, how about a Trump Seattle?

[Taller, Better]

so... did the talks two years ago go anywhere?

[dleung]

Hell no. Even the Fringe Tower would get built before Trump ever sets foot in Vancouver. As for Trump Toronto... I'll believe it when it tops out with all the glass installed =)

[Taller, Better]

Considering the number of people who swore up and down for two years that it would NEVER be built, and they knew that for a positive fact, etc.. etc... I think we can look forward to a lot of people being forced to eat crow, because it is most definitely going up! :D

[dleung]

Where are they in terms of construction?

[WinnipegPatriot]

There is a thread for it...go check it out!