IMPORTANT: The list below has been updated. Check post #961 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=12991159&postcount=961) for the updated version.

With all the different announcements in the past weeks, I thought it was time to make a general summary of skyscrapers u/c or planned in Paris, preceded by the number of skyscrapers already built, for perspective.

As of the end of March 2006 (see post #961 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=12991159&postcount=961) for the updated list as of the end of April 2007):
*12 skyscrapers above 150 m (492 ft) in La Défense and city proper: already built (note: the figure does not include Eiffel Tower)
*two 180 m (590 ft) skyscrapers in La Défense: under construction (due to be completed in 2007)
*renovation of the 159 m (522 ft) Axa Tower due to be turned into a 220 m (720 ft) skyscraper: renovation starts in 2007
*two 165 m (541 ft) skyscrapers in Levallois-Perret: approved, construction due to start soon
*one 400 m (1,300 ft) skyscraper in La Défense: proposed (approval due by June 2006)
*one 300 m (1,000 ft) skyscraper in La Défense: proposed (approval due by June 2006)
*three to four skyscrapers in the 200 - 250 m (650 - 800 ft) range in La Défense: proposed (approval due by June 2006)
*one 200 m (650 ft) skyscraper by architect Jean Nouvel in La Défense: proposed

All projects are due to be completed by 2015, at which time Greater Paris would have 21 to 23 skyscrapers above 150 m, including the tallest skyscraper in western Europe (400 m), announced as the "signal" tower of the renovated La Défense.

If the center-right win the 2008 Paris municipal election, building of skyscrapers in the city proper may also be forthcoming. Paris opposition leader, Françoise de Panafieu, said she supported the building of tall skyscrapers on the fringes of the historical center, at the moment hampered by opposition from the Green Party, a key partner of the curent center-left municipal coallition ruling the city.

I think we already have a link of all projects in Paris.

No, the other link is La Défense only, not the projects outside of La Défense.

why is paris building skyscrapers when Frances economy is in such a mess

why is paris building skyscrapers when Frances economy is in such a mess

Economy of France does actually better that the one of UK, so why not ? Also, french companies were never so high in the CAC40 and never had to much profits and funds, so they invest a little... :)

apart from that....japan's economy has been stagnating for over a decade, yet they still built tons of skyscrapers...

(and actually britain isn't doing that good compared to france or germany anymore...so much for strong or weak economies)


the list is very impressive. looks like europe's best (or second best?) skyline could get even better very soon. I always thought la defense needs two or three buildings over 200m or even 300m to get perfect...looks like it may happen. :cheers:

Yeah, good news, now it all depends on how architects are going to design those buildings, they can either ruin or make it one of the best skylines in Europe!

why is paris building skyscrapers when Frances economy is in such a mess
With globalisation, world cities like Paris are largely disconnected from their host country's economy. So it doesn't really matter what's the shape of the French economy. As long as the world economy is growing, so will Paris's economy.

Also, let's remember that the total amount of office space in Paris is simply enormous, and all the skyscrapers u/c or proposed will represent only a very small increase of that total office space.

According to the latest figures (March 2006), there are currently 49 million square meters (527 million square feet) of office space in the Paris metropolitan area, a figure higher than even in Greater London. If all the skyscrapers highlighted above are built, they will contain a total office space of approximately 0.5 million square meters (5.4 million square feet) according to official projections from La Défense Authority. So all these skyscrapers would account for a very modest 1% of the total office space in Paris.

Furthermore, in the next 9 years it is estimated that approximately 5 million square meters (54 million square feet) of office space will be built in the Paris metropolitan area (0.5 million will be skyscrapers, 4.5 million will be lowrise and midrise). In other words, the skyscrapers highlighted above are just one tenth of the total office space that will be built in the next 9 years. So it looks like there's nothing particularly extravagant about La Défense Authority and other Parisian municipalities deciding to build all these skyscrapers. Their visual impact, however, will be far more dramatic on Paris skyline than their meager 1% share of the total office space would suggest.

I hope this helps put things in perspective.

why is paris building skyscrapers when Frances economy is in such a mess
France's economy isn't in a mess. Yes, the government is trying to improve it, and stubborn unions want to maintain high unemployment, but that means little. France has been outperforming both the UK and Germany recently.

why is paris building skyscrapers when Frances economy is in such a mess
Why do not you just look at yourself, with your 17% poverty ? Do not try to teach things you ignore...

Why do not you just look at yourself, with your 17% poverty ? Do not try to teach things you ignore...

That's a useless comment, we certainly don't need a fight in this thread, so keep cool...

The more global cities are, the bigger amount of offices they will get.
But Paris is not as disconnected from its country as, say a city like London.
London is more global and is very likely to get more offices.
Furthermore Paris metro area still has a high unemployment rate, as high as France national unemployment rate. London metro area is still very thriving.
Paris city might have to build skyscrapers eventually if it does not want La Défense to be the true business centre of the whole metropolis, but as for now, Paris city (its western part at least) is still clearly the CBD of the Greater Paris.

Economy of France does actually better that the one of UK, so why not ? Also, french companies were never so high in the CAC40 and never had to much profits and funds, so they invest a little... :)

Since when?
2005 GDP growth:
France : 1.2%
UK : 1.8%

Since when?
2005 GDP growth:
France : 1.2%
UK : 1.8%

France : 1.4% ;) .. bad enough

The more global cities are, the bigger amount of offices they will get.
But Paris is not as disconnected from its country as, say a city like London.
London is more global and is very likely to get more offices.
Furthermore Paris metro area still has a high unemployment rate, as high as France national unemployment rate. London metro area is still very thriving.
Paris city might have to build skyscrapers eventually if it does not want La Défense to be the true business centre of the whole metropolis, but as for now, Paris city (its western part at least) is still clearly the CBD of the Greater Paris.


Ile De France has performed even more badly than the rest of France in the last decade.
London has outperformed almost consistently the UK growth rate during the same period, peaking at 5-6% a year.
The growth trajectory of the 2 capital cities has diverged sharply.

I dont think Greater London will build as much office space as the Ile de France region in the next decade. Two reasons :
- GL is much smaller than IDF
- The average space per office worker in GL is lower than IDF due to the higher occupancy costs.

Last point, Central London is supposed to concentrate a large chunk of the planned office development in the Greater London area, roughly some 8m m².

France : 1.4% ;) .. bad enough

I though it was revised down with the dissapointing end of the year.

^^

Yeah, yeah... Who cares? This thread is about skyscrapers projects in Paris-IDF! Why don't you open a new thread "Paris economy is shit and London is great" in the skybar (or UK skybar), rather than polluting this thread???

Yeah, good news, now it all depends on how architects are going to design those buildings, they can either ruin or make it one of the best skylines in Europe!

Well, It's already one of the best skylines in Europe :D

Generally global cities are in Anglosaxon countries. Because they have always won any war.

Generally global cities are in Anglosaxon countries. Because they have always won any war.

:weird:

:weird:


Check out metropolitan and your proper posts on the this thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330430&page=3

Anything to say to your defence? :D

knock it off, you lot.

any pics of that 400m+ tower planned for Paris??

France's economy isn't in a mess. Yes, the government is trying to improve it, and stubborn unions want to maintain high unemployment, but that means little. France has been outperforming both the UK and Germany recently.

:weirdo:

Obviously you dont read the economic reports that the rest of the world do...

Frances economy is still positive(+2% in 2005)

Allez +2%, qui dit mieux ? :D

=> Back to the topic PLEASE !!!

impressive projects ;)

What about the Tour du Palais de Justice in Paris 13th arrondissement ?

I've read somewhere it was a proposed building of 115 meters (380 feet) of height. Does anyone have informations about this ?

As for the renovation of the Flatotel tower in the Front de Seine, I guess it should remain 98 meters, right ?

Frances economy is still positive(+2% in 2005)

1.4% actually.

bon projets...

Paris's skyline is one of the best in western Europe.

Check out metropolitan and your proper posts on the this thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330430&page=3

Anything to say to your defence? :D

Yes: "I don't understand what you're talking about."

who is going to occupy these new buildings? seems pointless considering your economy is clearly failing compared to london and frankfurt

Yes: "I don't understand what you're talking about."I also fail to see what's Manuel's point. Except to tell us that he despises us both, but I'm starting to get used to it.

Buitoni, Bonne Maman, Flodor, Paté Henaff, Kanterbrau brands will ;)

who is going to occupy these new buildings? seems pointless considering your economy is clearly failing compared to london and frankfurtLa Défense 2015 project is probably important in terms of height, but at the scale of the agglomeration, it's certainly less in terms of offices areas being built. There are currently real seas of lowrise office buildings which are created a bit everywhere in Paris area. As much in the inner suburbs : Seine-Arche (Nanterre), Val de Seine (Boulogne/Issy), Levallois-Perret, Plaine-St-Denis ; then in the outer suburbs : CDG airport area, Saint-Quentin, Marne-la-Vallée, Cergy...

Remember you're talking about a 10 million people city. We have certainly rioting youngsters, and demonstrating unions, but there's still an economy to sustain. Seriously, there's not much trouble when it goes about offices demand in Paris area. The sole question would be if La Défense 2015 would be competitive compared with other business districts. However, La Défense has always been attractive for companies due to its visibility. Knowing the business district will be vastly improved in terms of services and esthetics (circular ring being re-arranged into an urban avenue, greeneries being vastly developped, cinema multiplex and concert halls being built, and of course taller towers to be built, etc...) there are strong reasons to believe LD visibility and attractiveness can only increase with the project.

I also fail to see what's Manuel's point. Except to tell us that he despises us both, but I'm starting to get used to it.

I was pointing at you two polluting threads in the french forums and then complaining about ppl obsession with London. Funny enough to be reported here.

Dont try to drag Bnmaddict with you Met. Why should we despise him? he's acting normal with sound ideas, interesting and relevant comments.

But you're totally right to say this is not the topic of this thread.

who is going to occupy these new buildings? seems pointless considering your economy is clearly failing compared to london and frankfurt

hail to anti french propaganda

Ile De France has performed even more badly than the rest of France in the last decade.
London has outperformed almost consistently the UK growth rate during the same period, peaking at 5-6% a year.
The growth trajectory of the 2 capital cities has diverged sharply.
I don't understand this need by some people to always belittle Paris and everything French. To move beyond clichés, let's have a look at hard figures. According to the French national statistics office, Paris metropolitan area's total output (measured as GDP) registered 1.31% growth per annum between 2000 and 2003 (the last year available). According to Greater London Authority, in the same time period (2000-2003) Greater London's total output (measured as GVA, a measure identical to GDP) registered a 0.55% growth per annum.

Even if we skew the numbers in favor of London by including London's booming years of the late 1990s, there appears to be no particular discrepancy between both metropolises: Paris's output between 1997-2003 had a growth rate of 2.76% per annum, whereas London's output growth rate during the same time period was 2.95% per annum. The best year for Greater London was 2000 with 5.97% growth compared to previous year. For Paris metropolitan area the best year was 1999 with 5.58% growth compared to previous year. On the other hand, Greater London experienced recession from the fourth quarter of 2001 to the first quarter of 2003, whereas Paris experienced no recession. The worst year in Paris metropolitan area was 2003 with only 0.53% growth, whereas the worst year in Greater London was in 2002 with negative growth of -0.81%.

So the figures show that this idea of London outperforming Paris is simply a myth, albeit a widespread one, like so many other urban myths. Now let's stop belittling Paris and get back to Paris skyscrapers projects please.

and where are you getting those figures from?

[I don't want to make biassed statements but comparing Ile de France with Greater London is irrelevant. London's economy spreads far beyond the M25. Either you should compare The Greater Paris with the Greater London, or you should compare Ile de France with South East imo.]

very good point, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/3852867.stm
the london metropolis swallows the entire south east of the UK, wheras paris is confined by countryside

[@Brisavoine
I've checked the GVA growth for GL. At current price, between 1995 and 2003, GL GVA grew by 66%. Can you link me to the IDF figures, please.]

[I don't want to make biassed statements but comparing Ile de France with Greater London is irrelevant. London's economy spreads far beyond the M25. Either you should compare The Greater Paris with the Greater London, or you should compare Ile de France with South East imo.]
Ok, so when you don't like figures, you accuse them of being meaningless. That's facile! South East of England is much larger than Ile de France FYI. It would be great to have aggregated figures for Greater London and neighboring counties, but these figures simply don't exist. In any case, even if we aggregated neighboring counties, there's no way that these counties could be booming so much as to significantly increase London's output growth rate. There would need to be a totally unrealistic 10% growth or more in places like Surrey or Berkshire to signicantly change the figures I gave above. So your criticism is moot.

I don't understand this need by some people to always belittle Paris and everything French. To move beyond clichés, let's have a look at hard figures. According to the French national statistics office, Paris metropolitan area's total output (measured as GDP) registered 1.31% growth per annum between 2000 and 2003 (the last year available). According to Greater London Authority, in the same time period (2000-2003) Greater London's total output (measured as GVA, a measure identical to GDP) registered a 0.55% growth per annum.

Even if we skew the numbers in favor of London by including London's booming years of the late 1990s, there appears to be no particular discrepancy between both metropolises: Paris's output between 1997-2003 had a growth rate of 2.76% per annum, whereas London's output growth rate during the same time period was 2.95% per annum. The best year for Greater London was 2000 with 5.97% growth compared to previous year. For Paris metropolitan area the best year was 1999 with 5.58% growth compared to previous year. On the other hand, Greater London experienced recession from the fourth quarter of 2001 to the first quarter of 2003, whereas Paris experienced no recession. The worst year in Paris metropolitan area was 2003 with only 0.53% growth, whereas the worst year in Greater London was in 2002 with negative growth of -0.81%.

So the figures show that this idea of London outperforming Paris is simply a myth, albeit a widespread one, like so many other urban myths. Now let's stop belittling Paris and get back to Paris skyscrapers projects please.

Source please???

I've checked and the GL figures are correct. Can you link me to the IDF figures, please.]
The IDF figures can be found here: http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/docs_ffc/PIB_reg.xls

Ok, so when you don't like figures, you accuse them of being meaningless. That's facile! South East of England is much larger than Ile de France FYI. It would be great to have aggregated figures for Greater London and neighboring counties, but these figures simply don't exist. In any case, even if we aggregated neighboring counties, there's no way that these counties could be booming so much as to significantly increase London's output growth rate. There would need to be a totally unrealistic 10% growth or more in places like Surrey or Berkshire to signicantly change the figures I gave above. So your criticism is moot.

I'm checking the 95-03 growth rate for the restrictive London metro in my database...hold on

[I don't want to make biassed statements but comparing Ile de France with Greater London is irrelevant. London's economy spreads far beyond the M25. Either you should compare The Greater Paris with the Greater London, or you should compare Ile de France with South East imo.]

You're already biased, Cyril... Perhaps you're spending too much time listening to Manuel's propaganda! ;)

roooooo..nein! let's just compare what is comparable, that's all ;) Manuel and brisavoine back up their posts with actual figures, all this is interesting finally. BUT that's not the topic of the thread. We'll have to clean this stuff away later :)

Between 95 and 03, Greater London grew by 65.6% and the rest of the metro area (GEMACA) grew by 67%, bringing the total growth at 66%

Well, IDF just grew by 35% in the same period using the same criteria.

For those interested, here is the link to the UK regional figures.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/lgva1205.pdf

Between 95 and 03, Greater London grew by 65.6% and the rest of the metro area (GEMACA) grew by 67%, bringing the total growth at 66%
You figures are wrong I'm afraid. Greater London didn't grow by 65.6% between 95 and 2003. That would mean 6.5% growth rate per annum (8th root of 1.656 = 1.065), which is totally impossible and contradicting Greater London Authority figures (GLA figures for 95-03 are 2.93% per annum).

The reason for your error is because you compared output at current basic prices (i.e. you forgot to deflate inflation), whereas comparisons ought to be made at constant price (after inflation is deflated).

London Vs Paris... I've ever liked this battle!

London Vs Paris... I've ever liked this battle!
It's not a "battle", FabriFlorence, it's just presenting real figures and debunking bogus data and myths. Aren't you fed up with always reading people who write about subjects they have little knowledge of?

Very interesting, now what about those project, does anybody have anything to say about them?

You figures are wrong I'm afraid. Greater London didn't grow by 65.6% between 95 and 2003. That would mean 6.5% growth rate per annum (8th root of 1.656 = 1.065), which is totally impossible and contradicting Greater London Authority figures (GLA figures for 95-03 are 2.93% per annum).2.93% annual growth from 1995 to 2003 makes 26% total growth.


Anyway, why all threads about Paris have to be polluted with London fans ? Seriously, are London supporters jealous of Paris or what ? London is a great city, there's absolutely no reason for London fans to behave as if they had an inferiority complex towards Paris. After all, there's no Parisian constantly polluting London's threads so why the opposite is always nearly mechanically true ?

Anyway, why all threads about Paris have to be polluted with London fans ? Seriously, are London supporters jealous of Paris or what ? London is a great city, we all know it, there's absolutely no reason for London fans to behave as if they had an inferiority complex towards Paris. After all, there's no Parisian constantly polluting London's threads so why the opposite is always nearly mechanically true ?



Anyway, why all threads about Paris have to be polluted with London fans ?

are there renderings showing the axa tower after renovation?

60 meter height increase is impressive...

New AXA tower rendering after renovation:

http://static.flickr.com/35/117177822_3324c261c2_o.jpg

omg! that's cool. I like it, it looks like a completely new building. and 220m is a very good height.

Since when?
2005 GDP growth:
France : 1.2%
UK : 1.8%

C'est sur le long terme qu'il faut voir Manuel, les réserves de pétrole du Royaume-Uni apparemment arrivent à la fin, et comme on dit "on a pas de pétrole, mais on a des idées". :) Parcontre il est temps d'engrosser une femme pour faire augmenter la population française manuel, car dans le futur, cela remettra les pendules a l'heure (etant donné que la démographie française a jamais suivie celle d'europe) avec l'angleterre et l'allemagne :) Sur ceux, je te souhaite de continuer tes doux reves feminins et économico-organismiques :)

Who gives a shit who has the higher GDP etc- This is a thread about Paris skyscrapers not a 'my economy is bigger than your economy' bullshit.

Leave your bickering for elsewhere

I think the reason why all this started was that some users (Manuel and Sanchez essentially) said there was no reason to build all these skyscrapers in Paris because, supposedly, the Paris economy is so weak, whereas the London economy is far outperforming Paris. This has been proven to be wrong, now let's move back to the real topic of this thread, i.e. skyscraper projects in Greater Paris. Someone please move all the off-topic economic discussion to a proper thread. Thank you.

So, I was wondering, does anyone has informations about the new tower of 115 meters which should host the new Judicial Court (Palais de Justice) in the 13th arrondissement ?

Economy of France does actually better that the one of UK, so why not ? Also, french companies were never so high in the CAC40 and never had to much profits and funds, so they invest a little... :)

Actually the Uk's economy is far sturdier than that of France's (hence the UK's global rank). Nonetheless, France's economy isnt in such a mess, but its easy to overrate a country much loved by all.

boring... :sleepy:



it would be nice to see some renderings of all the new projects in paris. it has been very quiet on that front for years and now there is a knowledge deficit. I don't even know, how the two big towers under construction look like...

Take a peek at the french forum :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=322474
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=253385

Copy and paste the pictures here, rather than linking people to the French forum. There are unfortunately many people who do not read French. Otherwise, I was wondering if anyone knows when and by whom the 200 meters Jean Nouvel skyscraper in La Défense will be approved. I listed it as something proposed, but I have no information about when it's due to be examined and approved. It's not even within the offfical perimeter of La Défense, is it?

PARIS: Projects under construction

Both are in La Défense
Both are 180 meters


Here you have a picture of T1:

http://static.flickr.com/51/118024774_79cb53af0e_o.jpg

For the moment, it's like this

http://www.defense-92.fr/photos/ph541.jpg

Here you have a picture of Tour Granite ("Société Générale" 3)

http://ladefense.free.fr/granite/titre.jpg

For the moment, it's like that

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7215/4421564bw.jpg

Some projects in La Defense:

PROJECT 1: AXA TOWER's Renovation

Now (159 meters):

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/2705/copiedeganaxa0zu.jpg

Proposed projects

http://www.paris-skyscrapers.com/newsite/photos/axa06.jpg

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/3782/axamossessian14la.jpg


The chosen project (edit: 225,11 meters - confirmed):

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8161/diapositive18rf.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4831/cb316ll.png

You can see another render previously on this thread.
Thanks to bnmaddict and paris-skyscrapers for the pictures.

PROJECT 2: ... and the magical mystery project by Jean Nouvel (approx. 200 meters):;)

still in La Défense

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/9093/tourjeannouvel9xh.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6285/jn52xd.jpg

first photo taken on Jean Nouvel's website + thanks to bnmaddict for the second photo. Actually Jean Nouvel also spoke about a 300 meters tower in La Défense, on the radio, but we don't know yet if it is related to this tower or another...

PROJECT in Levallois-Perret (165 meters):

This city is between La Défense and Paris, near the Seine.

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/images/stories/20060214c/cp38f00821542-(14,7x9,3).jpg

Very cool projects...even though i am London biased i'm up for any skyscrapers in paris afterall in like 2 yrs its going to be 2hr30min from my doorstep. :) Realistically though what is the chance of these towers getting built (esp as many parisian firms like london seem to prefer their space closer to the ground)?

first photo taken on Jean Nouvel's website + thanks to bnmaddict for the second photo. This tower has been confirmed on radio some weeks ago by the architect himself. No more recent news for the moment.


:? uh..Are you sure this tower was confirmed??
what I know is that 2 weeks ago I heard Jean Nouvel on a radio, he told that a 320m will be built in la Défense, I really don't know what tower he was talking about, his project or someone else's?

New Paris City Court:

http://static.flickr.com/46/121479241_88e8fb8a08_o.gif

Architect: design unknown.

Height: 115m.

Status: Proposed.

:? uh..Are you sure this tower was confirmed??
what I know is that 2 weeks ago I heard Jean Nouvel on a radio, he told that a 320m will be built in la Défense, I really don't know what tower he was talking about, his project or someone else's?

You're right, my sentence is not very accurate!
J'ai pris mes désirs pour des réalités. :)

I'll correct that.

The Jean Nouvel proyect looks good, too the Gan tower like me :)

Congrats! Paris :okay:

Air Tower Project:

http://static.flickr.com/40/121679768_b429ba0ac4_o.jpg

Status: proposed


Height: circa 35 floors / 140m / 46000 m²

140m???? looks taller than that Cyril!
I quite like the cross bracing.

Realistically though what is the chance of these towers getting built?
Did you read any of the above? T1 and Granite are both UNDER CONSTRUCTION, i.e. they are being built at the moment we speak. Construction on the New Axa Tower will start next year from what I understand. Construction on the twin towers in Levallois-Perret will also start next year I believe. As for the 400 meters, 300 meters, and three 200-250 meters skyscrapers in La Défense, the global project will be approved by the Minister of Transportation, Public Works, Tourism and the Sea next June at the latest. There's no chance the project will not be approved by the minister (Mr. Perben), because the whole project is supported by Nicolas Sarkozy, the leader of France's ruling party. Unlike in London or other cities, it's not private investors who build skyscrapers in La Défense, it's the La Défense Authority (a state entity) who build them (private building compannies selected by La Défense Authority do the actual building), and then the Authority rent the skyscrapers or sell them (correct me if I'm wrong). Also there's no requirement for pre-let.

So I can only think of 3 reasons why all the supertall announced wouldn't be built: a- the left win the 2007 presidential election and the new socialist president cancels the projects (not totally impossible, but not very likely... socialist Miterrand did not oppose skyscrapers in La Défense), b- the US economy collapses under trade imbalance and plunges the rest of the world into major recession (but then it's not just the skyscraper projects in Paris that would be cancelled), or c- major protests from Parisians opposed to skyscrapers (very unlikely... the mentality in Paris is something like "as long as they don't build them in the city, they can do whatever they want in the suburbs, suburbs really don't matter"... silly, but that's the mentality as I know it).

Unlike in London or other cities, it's not private investors who build skyscrapers in La Défense, it's the La Défense Authority (a state entity) who build them (private building compannies selected by La Défense Authority do the actual building), and then the Authority rent the skyscrapers or sell them (correct me if I'm wrong). Also there's no requirement for pre-let.


No! Of course not!
Private investors build towers in La Défense:
- HINES/LUCIA for T1
- Bouygues Immobilier for Exaltis
- Tishman Speyer for CBX

I agree with bnmaddict, of course it's private investors who build skyscrapers. The EPAD just sells the right to build in the area, which is totally different. It basically decides how big the buildings can be.

As for the pre-let requirements, I think it depends, wasn't EDF pre-let ? it's up to the investor i think.

[QUOTE=brisavoine Unlike in London or other cities, it's not private investors who build skyscrapers in La Défense, it's the La Défense Authority (a state entity) who build them (private building compannies selected by La Défense Authority do the actual building), and then the Authority rent the skyscrapers or sell them (correct me if I'm wrong). Also there's no requirement for pre-let.[/QUOTE]

Let me then correct you as you have kindly suggested. The tenants at LD are essentially large french corporates and financial institutions - not the State. LDA will only build these proposed skyscrapers if there are large tenants prepared to take space in them - if the proposed towers are well matched to occupier needs and if market conditions are right. On the supply side, issues related to the financing of the development and returns are also potential blocking factors. This process is not an easy ride. Nowhere.

T1 is beautiful.

The tenants at LD are essentially large french corporates and financial institutions - not the State.
Where did I say tenants were the State? I never said that. I said the La Défense Authority is a state entity, that's totally different. Don't twist my words.

In France, economic realities matter, but at the end of the day big decisions are always political decisions. It's not criticism, it's just observation, and sometimes it produces great things (e.g. Airbus would never have existed was it not for political decisions disconnected from the economy made by the French government in the 1950s and 1960s). In the case of La Défense, the equation is very simple: Nicolas Sarkozy, leader of the UMP ruling party and main contender for the 2007 presidential election, also happens to be president of the La Défense Authority and president of the Hauts-de-Seine département council in which La Défense is located.

Nicolas Sarkozy made it clear last December that he wanted a 400 meter skyscraper in La Défense, so there will be a 400 m skyscraper. Even if he loses the presidential election , he will remain president of Hauts-de-Seine, so in effect he will continue to control La Défense, and you can bet that in the event he would lose the presidential election he will be so disapointed that he will do his best to make La Défense a showcase of what he could have done as president of France. The only way I can think these skyscrapers wouldn't be built is if the next socialist president has a law passed in parliament to specifically forbid the building of new skyscrapers in La Défense, but I can't see that happening.

Last but not least, although at the end of the day investors demands are irrelevant in the political decision to build these skyscrapers, in this particular case there happen to be many international investors who are interested in building the skyscrapers. According to "Emerging Trends in Real Estate Europe 2006" published by the ULI (Urban Land Institute), Paris is considered by world investors as the most attractive real estate market in Europe, ahead of London for the second year in a row. Full report can be seen here:
http://www.uli.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=News&CONTENTID=46272&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm. The Executive Officer of La Défense Authority said he has already many investors interested in building the skyscrapers that have been announced, so it's a rare case where politics meet economics.

By the way, note that the construction of the Empire State Building in New York in the 1930s was also purely political and totally disconnected from the economy. The country was in the Big Depression and there was no need for a tall skyscraper. Actually the ESB remained largely empty for many years after its completion. But governor Roosevelt (later president Roosevelt) wanted a- to put people back to work and have a fantastic project like the ESB end the gloom in NY and in the nation, and b- he wanted to appear as a strong leader capable of achieving incredible things in the perspective of the 1932 presidential election, which he indeed won. I see a lot of similarities with the current situation in France.

And for those who still don't believe me, here is what La Défense Authority write on their website (I'm translating from French):

"In the beginning of 2005, the Minister of Public Works sent a letter to la Défense Authority asking us to design a project for the rebound of La Défense in the coming 15 years.

The answer of Bernard Bled, Executive Officer of La Defense Authority, was presented to the board of the Authority on December 2, 2005. The president of La Défense Authority, Nicolas Sarkozy, stressed the importance he attached to the rebound of La Défense. Nicolas Sarkozy also announced that the Hauts-de-Seine département council would finance 50% of La Défense Authority's deficit, while the remaining 50% would be financed by the municipalities of Courbevoie and Puteaux.

The proposals of La Défense Authority for the coming 15 years are based on a very ambitious plan for rebound whose objective is first to maintain and then also to improve the position of La Défense in the international competition.

The key points of the project are:
- building 850,000 m² (9.15 million sq. feet) of office space, 500,000 (5.4 million) of which will be in new buildings built on lots made available by the transformation of the southern circular boulevard, and 350,000 (3.75 million) of which will be in reconstructed buildings
- an outstanding architectural statement: one 400 m (1,300 ft) skyscraper, for which there will be an international architectural competition open to architects of the entire world
- the renovation, refurbishment, or demolition of the oldest towers in La Défense
- the refurbishment of dwellings in disrepair
- 100 000 m² (1.1 million sq. ft) of new dwellings
- the improvement of public transportation by extending Paris RER line E to La Défense, which La Défense Authority could finance in a large measure

Approval from the State is due by the middle of 2006."

hmmm... "it's a rare case where politics meet economics.", it's actually the opposite, several projects were cancelled because of economics (tour sans Fins, tour zherfuss, second tour fiat...), I can't think of any project in La Défense that was built "just to look good and to please someone" besides la Grande Arche, and le CNIT, but the CNIT was not intended to be an office building.
Every extension of La Défense was allowed in good economic conditions.
Same in this case, why will La Défense be extended ? Because of the economics, and thanks to political will to allow more construction.

so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?

C'est sur le long terme qu'il faut voir Manuel, les réserves de pétrole du Royaume-Uni apparemment arrivent à la fin, et comme on dit "on a pas de pétrole, mais on a des idées". :) Parcontre il est temps d'engrosser une femme pour faire augmenter la population française manuel, car dans le futur, cela remettra les pendules a l'heure (etant donné que la démographie française a jamais suivie celle d'europe) avec l'angleterre et l'allemagne :) Sur ceux, je te souhaite de continuer tes doux reves feminins et économico-organismiques :)

lol excellent :lol:

so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?

Surely Jacques Chirac himself, after 2007. He'll have time for that.

PARIS: Projects under construction

Both are in La Défense
Both are 180 meters


Here you have a picture of T1:

http://static.flickr.com/51/118024774_79cb53af0e_o.jpg

For the moment, it's like this

http://www.defense-92.fr/photos/ph541.jpg

Here you have a picture of Tour Granite ("Société Générale" 3)

http://ladefense.free.fr/granite/titre.jpg

For the moment, it's like that

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7215/4421564bw.jpg
excellent design, really impressive. :cheers:

so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?
After a bit more research, I think it will be private investors who will be building most towers. Many investors have already told La Défense Authority that they were interested. However, it may be different for the 400 meter supertall. This is no ordinary tower (high costs, higher risks for return on investment), and here maybe it could be a private/public partnership who would be the developper, as was the case in the 1970s for the building of the Tour Montparnasse, the current tallest skyscraper of Paris. We'll know more as events unfold.

I like this original futuristic shape and I think this complex will be entered to the city business centre as well

trois autres projets:


Tour Mozart - Issy - Arquitectonica - approuvée
http://jrlegallais.free.fr/photos/villes/issylesmoulineaux/Projets-006-Tour_Bouygues_Telecom.jpg

Pont d'Issy - Issy- Gautrand - proposées
http://irgendwo.free.fr/gautrand.jpg

Coté Seine (réhabilitation) - Paris - Valode et Pistre - travaux en cours
http://www.cap-invest.fr/images/produit/grand/lmppariscoteseineperspectivenuit.jpg

Air Tower Project:

http://static.flickr.com/40/121679768_b429ba0ac4_o.jpg

Status: proposed


Height: circa 35 floors / 140m / 46000 m²

I like the shape os this tower a lot.I hope it gets built :)

The exact height of the renovated Axa Tower has been officially announced. Exact roof height will be 225.11 meters (738.55 feet). There will be an antenna on top of the roof, whose exact dimensions are unknown yet (anywhere beteen 30 and 60 meters / 100 and 200 ft). The current Axa Tower is 159 meters (522 feet) tall at roof height, so the renovation means a 66 meters (217 feet) increase in height.

So, is there anything new happening in Issy-les-Moulineaux? :D

So, is there anything new happening in Issy-les-Moulineaux? :DThere's a rumor about two 180 meter tall towers planned for 2008 in Issy-les-Moulineaux.

They should be built nearby the Pont d'Issy, right at the location of Gautrand proposal in JP's post. This would mean that Gautrand's buildings wouldn't be built... which isn't that bad if you'd ask me as I wasn't seduced by that project which looked very "70's" to me.

To be continued. :)

I agree with bnmaddict, of course it's private investors who build skyscrapers. The EPAD just sells the right to build in the area, which is totally different. It basically decides how big the buildings can be.

As for the pre-let requirements, I think it depends, wasn't EDF pre-let ? it's up to the investor i think.

Exactly, CBX was purely speculative, they found a tenant (Dexia) 3 months before completion.

Surely Jacques Chirac himself, after 2007. He'll have time for that.
LOL

I bet Tony Blair wont be busy either... So it will come down to who's a better builder....Chirac or Blair?

Unfortunately, Chirac will be too old to build one and Blair wont get a nod from Uncle Sam( Bush).


So i guess, it will be the private sector that will be doing all the contruction work(both in london and paris)...

BTW, its lovely to see more european cities building skyscrapers...

I love the fact that they have conserved the heritage of paris and are building all the tall ones in La defense... I wish tour Montparnasse was in La defense too.

Les types est la n'importe quelle tour d' u/c a Paris maintennant ?

Another project for the great axis of paris !!

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/ladefense/vasconi_half.gif

http://static.flickr.com/53/126545046_6824732a5d_o.jpg

Are these two 40-story towers?

Out of the blue, Paris becomes booming! It's great to see all these developments, it was quiet in Paris for too long.

yes two residential 40stories towers !!
I really like the pedestrian bridge between neuilly and la defense !!

Okay, so here is a list of the current projects in Paris. It ranks the project from the most advanced to the least. I'm not sure the list is complete though :

Tour CBX (142m) : inaugurated
Tour Exaltis (72m) : soon inaugurated
Tour T1 (185m) : construction
Tour Granite (183m) : construction
Tours de Levallois (2x165m) : approved
Tour Mozart, Issy (97m) : approved
Hôtel Méridien La Défense (83m) : approved
renovated Tour AXA (225m) : in progress of approval
Tour du Palais de Justice (115m) : proposed
Tour Nouvel (200m) : proposed
LD 2015 (1x400m, 1x300m, 4x200m-250m) : being elaborated, no renderings yet.
Tours d'Issy (2x180m) : being elaborated, no renderings yet.
Tours de Neuilly (2x160m) : being elaborated, no renderings yet.

In that list, there are no less than 21 highrise buildings including 16 above 150 meters and 8 above 200 meters !!

^^ Again 2 other projects in Paris! This is getting ridiculous!!! :D

@Metropolitan
Can you be more accurate on the status of some these projects or it's the only piece of news we have ?

For instance, is the Tour du Palais de justice already submitted for planning or is it still in the preplanning stage?

@Metropolitan
Can you be more accurate on the status of some these projects or it's the only piece of news we have ?

For instance, is the Tour du Palais de justice already submitted for planning or is it still in the preplanning stage?I have no more news about the Tour du Palais de Justice, but according to the available renderings, I doubt a final design have been elaborated yet. The project seems to be planned for 2009.


Here is the current rendering of the tower, which is very simple :

http://www.auralab.com/galerie02/2706-Arene1.jpg

^^ Again 2 other projects in Paris! This is getting ridiculous!!! :D


you thief, you've stolen my idea! ;) :D

you thief, you've stolen my idea! ;) :D
Great minds th................. Yeah Nevermind ;)

Just posting this nice rendering by Metropolitan from the francophone forum. This is how Paris will look when the current projects are completed in 2015. The skyscrapers whose exact designs are unknown yet are represented as blue nondescript shapes, but their heights and locations are accurate (as indicated by La Défense Authority). All other skyscrapers on the picture are either already built or under construction. For a sense of dimensions, the tallest skyscraper on the picture is 400 m tall, or about the same height as the destroyed WTC in NYC.

Paris 9 years from now:

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/LD2015.jpg

Also, for those interested in numbers, I calculated some interesting statistics. If the current population growth rates of France and Paris remain the same over the next 9 years (most demographers think it is very likely they will), then in 2015 at the time when all the skyscrapers are completed in Paris there should be between 63.8 and 64.2 million inhabitants in France (metropolitan France), and 12.3 million inhabitants in the Paris metropolitan area.

Just posting this nice rendering by Metropolitan from the francophone forum. This is how Paris will look when the current projects are completed in 2015. The skyscrapers whose exact designs are unknown yet are represented as blue nondescript shapes, but their heights and locations are accurate (as indicated by La Défense Authority). All other skyscrapers on the picture are either already built or under construction. For a sense of dimensions, the tallest skyscraper on the picture is 400 m tall, or about the same height as the destroyed WTC in NYC.

Paris 9 years from now:

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/LD2015.jpg

WOW
Impressive

Paris, 13th February 2006.- The FADESA Group will develop two 42-storey skyscrapers in the metropolitan area of Paris. With a foreseen total investment of 500 million euros, the skyscrapers will count with state-of-the-art architecture and design.

http://www.fadesa.es/noticias/noticia.php?tipo=1&idioma=1&cual=218

Wow stunning!

I'm going to Paris this weekend. Would be nice to go back in about 10 years and it looked like that :D

Paris, 13th February 2006.- The FADESA Group will develop two 42-storey skyscrapers in the metropolitan area of Paris. With a foreseen total investment of 500 million euros, the skyscrapers will count with state-of-the-art architecture and design.

http://www.fadesa.es/noticias/noticia.php?tipo=1&idioma=1&cual=218
The skyscrapers to be built by the FADESA Group are the two 165 m (540 ft) skyscrapers that will be built in Levallois-Perret. They don't appear in the picture above, due to the angle of the picture. The will be located to the right of La Défense, slightly off the picture.

Just posting this nice rendering by Metropolitan from the francophone forum. This is how Paris will look when the current projects are completed in 2015. The skyscrapers whose exact designs are unknown yet are represented as blue nondescript shapes, but their heights and locations are accurate (as indicated by La Défense Authority). All other skyscrapers on the picture are either already built or under construction. For a sense of dimensions, the tallest skyscraper on the picture is 400 m tall, or about the same height as the destroyed WTC in NYC.

Paris 9 years from now:

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/LD2015.jpg

OMG :eek2: really beautiful

It was reported that there are projects to build two 180 meters (590 ft) skyscrapers in Issy-les-Moulineaux. This adds to the already long list of skyscrapers that are planned or under construction in Paris. After the announcements of skyscrapers in La Défense, Levallois-Perret, Neuilly-sur-Seine, and now Issy-les-Moulineaux, it appears that 10 years from now there should be a constellation of skyscraper clusters spread out in the western area of Paris, unlike the current situation where there is only La Défense and Montparnasse.

I created a small map to show the location of all the skyscrapers already existing, under construction, or planned (only skyscrapers taller than 150 m/500 ft are indicated).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/f/f0/Parismap.JPG

I was in Paris this weekend, and on the roof of Tour Montparnasse. What a great view! And free from tourists, no queue at all. Quite a contrast to those thousands queued up under the Eiffel Tower... :)
Took loads of stunning pics, which is why I hate myself so badly because I managed to loose the memory-card from my camera somewhere between CDG and Heathrow... 250 memories from Paris lost forever :( arg! :wallbash:

At least I got a few videos.

Le Nouvel Observateur magazine in their latest edition have revealed new skyscraper projects hitherto unknown. Here is the cover page.

http://obsdeparis.nouvelobs.com/visuels/p273_2166/cover.jpg

In Issy-les-Moulineaux (you can see that place on the map above) the local council would like Norman Foster to build two skyscrapers on the banks of the Seine (height unknown). Furthermore, they also plan to build an office skyscraper called the Hypergreen Tower which would be 246 m (807 ft) high and include the latest technology in energy-saving and environmental sustainability.

Le Nouvel Observateur have also revealed that in Saint-Denis (north of Central Paris) the local council plans to build skyscrapers near the Stade de France. Several councils on the northern and eastern fringes of Central Paris (notably Saint-Ouen and Bagnolet) are also planning skyscrapers according to Le Nouvel Observateur.

With all the new projects announced weekly, it's hard to keep the Paris skyscrapers list up-to-date. The current skyscraper building drive has never been seen before in Paris. If I count well, there are now skyscrapers U/C or planned in La Défense, Neuilly-sur-Seine, Levallois-Perret, Issy-les-Moulineaux, Saint-Denis, Saint-Ouen, and Bagnolet. I'll update the list as soon as we have more information about the projects. If anyone has better information, please update.

Even more projects for towers??!!
This is getting ridiculous!
:D

:D

Here are some renderings of the 246 m (807 ft) Hypergreen Tower that Issy-les-Moulineaux is insterested in. The concept was introduced by architect Jacques Ferrier. This skyscraper would be built approximately 4 km (2.5 miles southwest of the Eiffel Tower). Please note that the renderings were initially for a Chinese city, so the buildings shown around the Hypergreen Tower are not in Issy-les-Moulineaux.

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/01.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/02.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/03.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/04.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/05.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/06.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/07.jpg

http://www.bati-index.com/redaction_images/4908/zoom/08.jpg

At first sight like that, I hate it

Nice concept,ugly design.

^exactly what I think.

I think those renderings don't do justice to the project. The lace will probably look more like the buildings at the Tjibaou Center in Nouméa, New Caledonia. Here are pictures of those buildings.

http://membres.lycos.fr/sylpress/VOYAGE/NCALEDONIE/NCAL024.JPG

http://membres.lycos.fr/sylpress/VOYAGE/NCALEDONIE/NCAL022.JPG

http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/tjibaou/cct-exterior.jpg

One can also think about the Torre Agbar in Barcelona.

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/project/uploaded_files/118_385%20Torre%20Agbar.jpg

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.

^yes of course, you're right.
But countries should build more schools for you too to learn a thing or two about the world

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.

:hahaha: :rofl:

You obviously don´t knw shit do you? France is like 10X wealthier than the US. If you have a job i Europe you manage quite well. You can have three jobs in the US and still not affird to live in a house! Plus that unemployment rate isn´t fare, do you really think all poor homeless people are included, no! Get the facts right before you make such ridiculous statements...

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Firstly, get your facts right
France is not a Communist country.
The States are generally poorer than France (no offence).
As for the 4.5% unemployment rate, New York City is not even that low...

Secondly, reason yourself
Why should a developed Socialist country like France not build skyscrapers?
And if you think Communists don't need skyscrapers, where are all the government officials be working?????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.

wtf??

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.


What a prat
Read the FAQ
Oh and welcome to the boards, wierdo :sleepy:

Hey people, don't feed the trolls!

PENCAKAR, obviously i know that france isn`t a communist country, but it is not a capitalist country like USA. ALL the french universities are public and the fees are so low that there is no money to build more laboratories. second, in francfurt, germany, there are a lot of skyscrapers empty because the country can not create new jobs.
Chirac, an intelligent president, wanted to change all the stupid french laws, like the famous CPE, unfortunally there are a lot of rastas and hippies and communist people in France.

USA GDP PER CAPITA: 42000$
FRANCE GDP PER CAPITA: 30000$

WELL, I THINK I WAS A LITLE BIT A BADBOY, BUT IT IS BETTER TO SAY THE TRUE

countries like france, should not build skyscrapers when their economy is shit and more shit. france unemployment rate : 10%. USA : 4,5%
Unemployment rates doens't prove a thing, especially considering the fact that the US has a lot of so-called McJobs, hard work for wages where people in other parts of the Western world would laugh about.

SKYSCRAPERS SHOULD BE BUILD IN CAPITALIST COUNTRIES LIKE USA, NOT IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE.
Please tell that in China. Or didn't you know most skyscraper construction could be found in non-capatilist countries nowadays?

FRANCE SHOULD BUILD MORE 20 FLOORS BUILDINGS FOR POOR FRENCHMAN, BECAUSE IF THEY BUILD OFFICE BUILDINGS, THEY WILL BE EMPTY FOR SURE.
With the poverty-rate in you beloved capalistic USA, it's would be better to say that anywhere else but here.

The world is so simple, isn't it?


Back to business: it's great to see all there developments. I can't wait to see the first renders of Paris first supertall!

it's a waste of time to argue about such idiotic topics. please don't let newfire represent all americans... :sleepy:

it's great to see the development of paris expanding to new parts of the city. im not sure if i like the hypergreen tower though :tongue3:

PENCAKAR, obviously i know that france isn`t a communist country, but it is not a capitalist country like USA. ALL the french universities are public and the fees are so low that there is no money to build more laboratories. second, in francfurt, germany, there are a lot of skyscrapers empty because the country can not create new jobs.
Chirac, an intelligent president, wanted to change all the stupid french laws, like the famous CPE, unfortunally there are a lot of rastas and hippies and communist people in France.

USA GDP PER CAPITA: 42000$
FRANCE GDP PER CAPITA: 30000$

WELL, I THINK I WAS A LITLE BIT A BADBOY, BUT IT IS BETTER TO SAY THE TRUE
I agree with TGSwimFly that we shud end this, but not giving up.
firstly, did you not learn economics in highschool? France's univerities may be low cost, but taxes are very high (total tax wedge of a single worker in France is 48.3%; USA 30%) , and that is where the govt get money. That money will then be used to subsidise universities (to build whatever YOU want them to). So, since France is not a very corrupted country, the money shud go to the unies instead of Chirac's or Sarkozy's pockets...
Secondly, as I stated before, Communists are better at creating jobs than Capitalist (get your eco textbook or wikipedia to explain this! I cannot be bothered to rite now...). This will include government posts, etc. Those empty s'rapers in FranKfurt is a result of the SPD trying to go right. (Gerhard Schroeder was a right-wing inside SPD).

I hope this proves it wrong that Communist countries cannot build skyscrapers.
I think both economies should build skyscrapers if conditions permit. :)

NEWFIRE

first : unemployement is important in france but it is changing (2003:10% 2006:9% 2007 : 7-8%)
second : Why you don't want skyscrpers be build in France , you are jaelous or you don't want 2015 paris'skyline be better than NYC or Chicago?

Well, couldn't we just end this stupid discussion and come back to the projects? :)

I'm not sure if I like this 'green' tower. It doesn't suit Paris.

None of those projects will be built in central Paris. They will /would be built in the inner suburbs.

Great for Paris. It is really the best city in Europe not just for visit but also for business.

Oh by the way for UK trolls. I found this data on other forum.

GDP per capita

Inner London 60242 EUR
Paris (75) 67000 EUR

^:|
Now why would you post that, except to attract more trolls? As a matter of fact it makes you the troll.

Great for Paris. It is really the best city in Europe not just for visit but also for business.

Oh by the way for UK trolls. I found this data on other forum.

GDP per capita

Inner London 60242 EUR
Paris (75) 67000 EUR

lol...you must have a very small penis and be very insecure about it.

You French really do have a paranoid inferiority complex about the UK...

See you in 2012...lol... :)

If a mod could visit this thread and "clean" a bit, that would be great... :)

^:|
Now why would you post that, except to attract more trolls? As a matter of fact it makes you the troll.How can you call someone troll, when he posted the real thing, after trolls posts are not deleted, not just becouase they don't belong here, but also becouase they are not true? So it not makes me troll at all. I don't need answer becouase thread is about Paris projects.

It makes you a troll because you posted the fact for the sole reason of annoying the Brits.
The best way is to ignore the trolls, they make fools of themselves alone, but once somebody joins them, it builds their confidence ;)

How can you call someone troll, when he posted the real thing, after trolls posts are not deleted, not just becouase they don't belong here, but also becouase they are not true? So it not makes me troll at all. I don't need answer becouase thread is about Paris projects.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/TheOriginalCooper/whfrb4.jpg

I think that makes about as much sense as you...

You French really do have a paranoid inferiority complex about the UK...
See you in 2012...lol... :)It must be that and with this post we will end this discussion not on Paris but on London - Full Summary of Projects?

Can you people cut the crap please?

None of those projects will be built in central Paris. They will /would be built in the inner suburbs.
Well, those inner suburbs are actually part of central Paris. Central Paris has now spread beyond the rigid administrative borders of the city of Paris. Just a few figures so that people can better understand this. These are examples of job densities in the central areas of some famous world cities:
- NYC borough of Manhattan: 36,970 jobs per square kilometer
- City of Paris: 15,767 jobs per sq. km.
- Central Tokyo (23 wards): 11,250 jobs per sq. km.
- Inner London: 8,240 jobs per sq. km.

In regional European central cities you would have figures like:
- City of Manchester: 2,310 jobs per sq. km.
- City of Toulouse: 1,980 jobs per sq. km.
- City of Antwerp: 1,285 jobs per sq. km.

And here are the job densities in the districts outside the administrative borders of Paris where the new skyscrapers are planned:
- La Défense: 200,000 jobs per sq. km.
- Levallois-Perret: 20,510 jobs per sq. km.
- Neuilly-sur-Seine: 12,160 jobs per sq. km.
- Issy-les-Moulineaux: 9,010 jobs per sq. km.

With job densities like that, these districts would be considered as central cities anywhere in the world. Levallois-Perret, for example, has twice more job density than downtown Brussels (approx. 10,000 jobs per sq. km.). And La Défense simply has the highest job density anywhere in Europe, ahead of even the City of London (110,000 jobs per sq. km.). No arrondissement inside the administrative borders of Paris matches La Défense: the 2nd arrondissement, which has the highest job density, "only" reaches 62,170 jobs per sq. km.

So after looking at the figures, it is obvious that these "inner suburbs" are not really suburbs anymore, and it is no surprise that skyscrapers are built there.

Well, those inner suburbs are actually part of central Paris. Central Paris has now spread beyond the rigid administrative borders of the city of Paris. Just a few figures so that people can better understand this. These are examples of job densities in the central areas of some famous world cities:
- NYC borough of Manhattan: 36,970 jobs per square kilometer
- City of Paris: 15,767 jobs per sq. km.
- Central Tokyo (23 wards): 11,250 jobs per sq. km.
- Inner London: 8,240 jobs per sq. km.

In regional European central cities you would have figures like:
- City of Manchester: 2,310 jobs per sq. km.
- City of Toulouse: 1,980 jobs per sq. km.
- City of Antwerp: 1,285 jobs per sq. km.

And here are the job densities in the districts outside the administrative borders of Paris where the new skyscrapers are planned:
- La Défense: 200,000 jobs per sq. km.
- Levallois-Perret: 20,510 jobs per sq. km.
- Neuilly-sur-Seine: 12,160 jobs per sq. km.
- Issy-les-Moulineaux: 9,010 jobs per sq. km.

With job densities like that, these districts would be considered as central cities anywhere in the world. Levallois-Perret, for example, has twice more job density than downtown Brussels (approx. 10,000 jobs per sq. km.). And La Défense simply has the highest job density anywhere in Europe, ahead of even the City of London (110,000 jobs per sq. km.). No arrondissement inside the administrative borders of Paris matches La Défense: the 2nd arrondissement, which has the highest job density, "only" reaches 62,170 jobs per sq. km.

So after looking at the figures, it is obvious that these "inner suburbs" are not really suburbs anymore, and it is no surprise that skyscrapers are built there.

I don`t think the job densities could create a new city. WhAT matters, is what city in the area was the first to born and the district of `lA Defense` in Paris will never be considered like another city.

AND, i don`t realize that there are several bastards that think that la defense could overcome New York city. Maybe Shanghai, but frenchcities?

never. :nono: :nono:

pfff... someone please delete all that crap...

I doubt LD has a higher job density than the city of London or central Paris, but anyway that's nto the point, who cares if Ld is 4km west of Paris ? it's pretty obvious that LD exists because Paris is there, so no need to start another argument because on paper there's a line in between while other cities swallowed their neigbors...
And whoever said that LD could overcome NYC was either kidding or stupid.

I doubt LD has a higher job density than the city of London or central Paris
All figures I gave are official. According to La Défense Authority website, there are 150,000 jobs in the 75 hectares of La Défense, so that's a job density of 200,000 jobs per sq. km. Other sources list a land area of 130 hectares (probably including the office areas beyond the Circular Boulevard), which still means a job density of 115,000 jobs per sq. km. For the City of London, the 110,000 jobs per sq. km. figure comes from the Nomis (www.nomisweb.co.uk) website. As for the arrondissements of Paris, the figures come from the 1999 census: the 2nd arrondissement, the job densest, has "only" 61,672 jobs in its 99.2 hectares (source (http://www.recensement.insee.fr/RP99/rp99/wr_page.affiche?p_id_nivgeo=C&p_id_loca=75102&p_id_princ=EMP1&p_theme=ALL&p_typeprod=ALL&p_langue=FR)), which means 62,170 jobs per sq. km. I know some people may be surprised to hear that the job density in La Défense is higher than in the densest arrondissements of the city of Paris, but what can I say, that's simply hard fact.

Well having spent 2 days in the La Defense area last year with a few colleagues, we all all commented on how impressive it looked from a distance, but the reality when your actually standing in it, is completely different.

Its a concrete dump, poorly maintained, very shabby in some areas, limited facilities and shops and the finish of some of the buildings there is quite shocking.

We all said how much nicer Canary Wharf is at ground level and how superior the quality of the buildings and materials used at CW was, plus the far better ammenities for workers.

I guess 90% of the people who comment upon La Defense on these forums, have never been there...they should, it will change your opinion of it.

As a working envoirement, you would have to crazy (or French) to prefer it to Canary Wharf.

Well having spent 2 days in the La Defense area last year with a few colleagues, we all all commented on how impressive it looked from a distance, but the reality when your actually standing in it, is completely different.

Its a concrete dump, poorly maintained, very shabby in some areas, limited facilities and shops and the finish of some of the buildings there is quite shocking.

We all said how much nicer Canary Wharf is at ground level and how superior the quality of the buildings and materials used at CW was, plus the far better ammenities for workers.

I guess 90% of the people who comment upon La Defense on these forums, have never been there...they should, it will change your opinion of it.

As a working envoirement, you would have to crazy (or French) to prefer it to Canary Wharf.

CW is 4 times smaller than LD and was created 6 years ago (apart from 1 Canada square which is from the 90s), while LD's first buildings were built in the 60s...

Anyway, I live just south of CW and still prefer LD by far...

You would have to be crazy or Brit to think that CW is in the same league as LD! LD is a real CBD, while CW is a group of 6 skyscrapers around an underground mall.

CW is 4 times smaller than LD and was created 6 years ago (apart from 1 Canada square which is from the 90s), while LD's first buildings were built in the 60s...

Anyway, I live just south of CW and still prefer LD by far...

You would have to be crazy or Brit to think that CW is in the same league as LD! LD is a real CBD, while CW is a group of 6 skyscrapers around an underground mall.

That's because your French......all that needs to be said really.

I note you didn't actually deny what i said about the quality of the buildings and maintenance of the area.

And where in my post did i say that CW is in the same league as LD, i just remember the fact that 1 square mile of the City Of London has a financial market nearly 4 times that of Paris.... :)

Anyway, if you prefer LD to CW, go back to France, or cant your beloved LD provide you with a living to the same standard as CW......

That's because your French......all that needs to be said really.

I note you didn't actually deny what i said about the quality of the buildings and maintenance of the area.

Anyway, if you prefer LD to CW, go back to France, or cant your beloved LD provide you with a living to the same standard as CW......

Actually, I'm here on a mission for a FRENCH company, most of the employees of CW can't afford to live where I'm living right now, considering my age.

Well having spent 2 days in the La Defense area last year with a few colleagues, we all all commented on how impressive it looked from a distance, but the reality when your actually standing in it, is completely different.

Its a concrete dump, poorly maintained, very shabby in some areas, limited facilities and shops and the finish of some of the buildings there is quite shocking.

We all said how much nicer Canary Wharf is at ground level and how superior the quality of the buildings and materials used at CW was, plus the far better ammenities for workers.

I guess 90% of the people who comment upon La Defense on these forums, have never been there...they should, it will change your opinion of it.

As a working envoirement, you would have to crazy (or French) to prefer it to Canary Wharf.
Instead of complaining, why don't you send an email to EPAD, the public body managing La Défense, to suggest possible improvements? I understand EPAD is currently working on a major rehaul to improve environment at La Défense and make it a more lively place, in parallel with the building of the new supertall skyscrapers to be completed by 2015. With your international perspective, EPAD will surely appreciate your input. Here is where you can contact them: www.ladefense.fr/epad_contact.php (http://www.ladefense.fr/epad_contact.php).

Ghhhhh. STOP IT! Once again I ask for return to the discussion about projects.

Do all of the threads about Paris have to become a Paris vs. London thread?

Do all of the threads about Paris have to become a Paris vs. London thread?This is a wrong city thread for that question.

La défense is changing ; a new cinema multiplex open 2 weeks ago in the heart of la défense and a residantial tower is in project in la défense in the projet LD 2015.


photo of la défense by wikipédia
http://www.hiboox.com/vignettes/2106/-t0558b.jpg (http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=-t0558b.jpg)

Your picture displayed in a very small format. Here is a larger version:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Esplanade-de-la-defense.jpg/750px-Esplanade-de-la-defense.jpg

That's a great photo!

Instead of complaining, why don't you send an email to EPAD, the public body managing La Défense, to suggest possible improvements? I understand EPAD is currently working on a major rehaul to improve environment at La Défense and make it a more lively place, in parallel with the building of the new supertall skyscrapers to be completed by 2015. With your international perspective, EPAD will surely appreciate your input. Here is where you can contact them: www.ladefense.fr/epad_contact.php (http://www.ladefense.fr/epad_contact.php).
In addition to what I wrote yesterday, here are three pictures that show some of the improvements going on at La Défense. According to EPAD, this is a just a beginning.

New grassy areas planted among the concrete plazas and walkways:
http://www.defense-92.fr/photos/ph633.jpg

Wooden pier built behind the Grande Arche:
http://www.defense-92.fr/photos/ph548.jpg

New movie theatre opened near the Grande Arche:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/thumb/7/76/Le_Dome.jpg/850px-Le_Dome.jpg

``

Waiting for renderings of the new skyscrapers announced for Paris, here is a nice view of the CURRENT La Défense among
the sprawling Paris metro area.

Small version:
http://mapage.noos.fr/gogf/cecinestpasparis-mini.jpg

Large version:
http://mapage.noos.fr/gogf/cecinestpasparis.jpg

Very nice panoram guys

Very nice pics up there.

And by the way, I like La Defence more then Canary Wharf. And I prefer London above Paris as a city. :)

Yes, I prefer La Defense to CW as well at the minute, but I prefer London city now and in the future

Your picture displayed in a very small format. Here is a larger version:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Esplanade-de-la-defense.jpg/750px-Esplanade-de-la-defense.jpg
So futuristic canyon, need just more neon tube

Another great Paris skyline, taken from the leafy western suburbs. This one feels so much like somewhere in North America... and yet, it's Paris! If you pay good attention to details, you'll notice the tiny upper part of the Eiffel Tower on the right side of the picture.

For those of you with good graphic design skills, it would be great to make a montage showing the new La Défense skyscrapers on the picture. You can find the full size version of the picture here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/d/de/LDStGermain.jpg).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/thumb/d/de/LDStGermain.jpg/600px-LDStGermain.jpg

This is another nice view showing the exact location where the two skyscrapers of Neuilly-sur-Seine should be built. They
would stand next to (or replace?) the two modern mid-rise in the foreground (on each side of the freeway).

Again, it would be great to see a montage showing the two skyscrapers on the picture, for those with photo editors...

http://rainer-sielker.de/Bretagne/img/Br1-062.jpg

Here are some renderings of the 165 m.(541 ft) twin towers in Levallois-Perret, on the banks of the Seine river. Construction is due to start this coming summer (2006) and the towers will be completed and opened in June 2009, when they are delivered to Spanish developer Fadesa.

The towers will have 42 floors each and a total floor space of 110,000 m² (1,185,000 sq. ft), of which 90,000 m² (970,000 sq. ft) will be office space, and the remaining 20,000 m² (215,000 ft) will contain a commercial mall and a three-stars hotel with restaurant, bar, and fitness center. There will be an underground parking lot with capacity 1,600 spaces.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/oc/e/e1/Parismap1.JPG

This map shows the location of the Levallois twin towers, as well as the location of all other skyscrapers either already built or currently planned in Paris.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/e/e1/Parismap1.JPG

the twins are pretty massive. are there plans for more towers in the area of the project ?

^^ This is old rotten news. Ugly towers. Any fresh news?

Cyril, if you want to vent your hatred of France and Paris, try to do that outside of this thread. Thank you.

HD, as of now there are no plans to build other skyscrapers around the Levallois twin towers. However, once the towers are completed in 2009, it may prompt construction of new skyscrapers there, who knows. Also, the local councils in Issy-les-Moulineaux and Saint-Denis are said to be planning their own skyscrapers. Should they outdo Levallois by building taller skyscrapers, then Levallois mayor Mr. Balkany might want to strike back by building something taller than in Issy or Saint-Denis. There's a lot of ego going on in these projects, and Mr. Balkany is certainly known for his great ego. Anyway, time will tell.

so if someone finds these towers ugly, this means he hates france or paris?

so if someone finds these towers ugly, this means he hates france or paris?
Just re-read Cyril's message, his point wasn't so much to criticize the aesthetics of the Levallois towers as it was to simply denigrate ("rotten news", "ugly"). It's like me going on the London threads to write "the Shard is ugly", period, just to provoke people there. I would never do that.

You've been around this forum for some time, so you know as well as me that there are some French forumers around whose only interest is to systematically denigrate anything French or Parisian. If these people want to revel in masochism, I have nothing against it, but at least they could do that in dedicated threads and stop polluting more serious threads like this one. So far there was not a single rendering of the Levallois twin towers in this thread, so how exactly does it positively contribute to this thread by calling these renderings "old rotten news"?

"ugly"
As for those twin towers, quality is incredibly poor, this is true of most high rise built in France unfortunately. This does NOT mean I loathe France or Paris :ohno: Do not push it man!

"rotten news"
Furthermore you have already mentioned those Levallois towers earlier. As no fresh news have come out about this project so far, I really do not see why you have to re-post it again.

The French do resent high rise on the whole, so I think that we cannot let poorly designed towers be built anywhere again like in the 1960's. The Levallois twins ARE ugly. It is just pure (poor) property developer architectural style. Simply tasteless.

I just wish that the developments to come would have a better quality. Maybe La Defense 2015 will make my dream come true, who knows?

Furthermore you have already mentioned those Levallois towers earlier. As no fresh news have come out about this project so far, I really do not see why you have to re-post it again.
There wasn't any rendering of the Levallois twin towers on this thread yet. It just happened that I discovered those interesting renderings yesterday and wanted to share them with other people. I also found detailed information about the square footage and content of the towers which hadn't been detailed on this thread yet. So there is absolutely no "re-post". The likes of you are very discouraging I must say. I wish you would have the same exacting attitude on the other city threads. There they post the same renderings over and over again, but you don't seem to mind. Enough said.

Don't push it Cyril. We don't know much about the Levallois twins, and they are not worse looking than many tower built in europe, including London. About the "incredibly poor quality", what are you talking about? Do you think about anything recent? The major buildings built in La Défense since 10 years all have original designs and a good quality.
I bet you haven't seen LD in a while.

Don't push it Cyril. We don't know much about the Levallois twins, and they are not worse looking than many tower built in europe, including London.

What do you mean? What's wrong with towers in London? Swiss Re, 1 canada square, even T42 are better than that.

Sure 1Cs and Swiss-re are better. but I'm sure St!ckyesman didn't talk about these. What about the bank street towers for example ? or Broadgate ? they seem to be in the same category : average boring tower. Anyway I won't judge these levallois towers till we have better renderings.

Don't reply to the juvenile English forumers please. You only help them ruin this thread. I think the best method with them is simply to ignore them when they post offensive or provoking messages.

About the Levallois twin towers, I agree with both St!ckyesman and Phil. To me they look neither good nor bad, it's hard to form a judgment with the renderings released so far, and I bet once they are built people will start to like them (it happened before). In any case, in an average place like Levallois-Perret, where no building particularly stands out, any 150m+ (500ft+) tower will be terrific, even if the design is just average.

I must give credit to Levallois local council for having broken the taboo of skyscraper building (outside of La Défense). Perhaps this is the most important thing about these towers: I don't care so much about their aesthetics, perhaps they are not great looking (perhaps), but the important thing is that they have stimulated competition among the local councils surrounding the City of Paris. Probably it is Levallois-Perret's decision to build these twin towers that triggered Issy-les-Moulineaux's sudden announcement of sckyscraper projects in Issy, and now Saint-Denis, Saint-Ouen, Neuilly-sur-Seine, and Bagnolet's announcements that they are planning skyscrapers too. The coming years are going to be quite exciting (for those interested in bold urban projects at least).

Here is an excellent website about the 185 m (607 ft) T1 tower currently under construction in La Défense:
http://www.t1-defense.com/

The website contains stunning renderings of the tower. There are also weekly updates with pictures showing construction progress, as well as lots of information about the tower. The tower is due to be completed in 2007 and opened in January/February 2008.

Just two renderings from the website:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/c/ca/Tun.JPG

This one shows Paris by night as seen from inside the T1 tower. If you pay attention, you can notice the Eiffel Tower in the distance through the window in the center of the picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/5/5e/T_un.JPG

That first pic, really hard to believe thats Europe let alone France, looks so cool, LD got it goin on, lol...

strange thing is I've been Paris twice and never properly noticed LD!! Too entranced by everything else that only took notice of LD when at the top of tower, and even then I was more interested in the city centre, lol...

looks great are there any tall structures being built somewere else besides La Defense

Very nice stuff and looks so futuristic

looks great are there any tall structures being built somewere else besides La Defense
The skyscrapers currently under construction are all located in La Défense: 185m/607ft T1 Tower already shown, and the 183m/600ft Granite Tower, shown below. But as explained in previous messages, the 165m/541ft twin towers in Levallois-Perret should start construction this summer if everything goes according to schedule. It will be the first time skyscrapers are built outside of La Défense since the construction of the Montparnasse Tower in the early 1970s.

More should follow if Issy, Neuilly, Saint-Denis, and so forth (look at the map posted in previous messages), go on with their skyscraper projects. However, La Défense will remain the largest skyscraper cluster.

183m/600ft Granite Tower:

http://ladefense.free.fr/granite/titre.jpg

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4764/granite2xl.jpg

A few bits of info from the francophone forum about the skyscraper projects in Issy-les-Moulineaux (check map in post #176).

One French forumer wrote to Issy-les-Moulineaux local council who answered that there were two 180m (591ft) skyscrapers planned. An architect contest will be launched in 2007 between Gautrand, Next, Foster, and others. Construction is due to start in 2008.

Also, by the end of this year (2006), decision will be taken whether or not to build the 246m (807ft) Hypergreen Tower (check post #124 for renderings). The local council is trying to convince France Telecom to occupy the Hypergreen Tower.

Two rumors found on another French forum:

- The architectural contest for the 350-400m tower has been launched, ten architects are working on it, and some are already making the models. Among them, we should have Nouvel and SOM (from a forumer who has a friend working in Chicago, apparently), but I guess that Foster, Pei, KPF and Pelli will also be among them (Pei already made a tower in LD, KPF made 4 buildings and renovations, Pelli was among the contestants for Granite and SOM for CB31 and T1)... A guy on this forum is working on the models for one of the other architects, but he is not allowed to say much, except that it seems to be going on well, and we should have some great news and surely renders this fall!

- Another contest (4 architectural firms) has been launched for a 280m high tower, located behind Gan, which is just next to the New-AXA tower (the future 225m tower) in LD

Those are nothing more than rumors, but the guys who spreaded them seem to be reliable... :)

just add my two penneth.

paris, very cool place, but can't really compete with London on the world stage, having worked in both (and tokyo and new york) I'd say London is still the financial capital

fact is they are different cities with some absolutely awesome architecture. All this dick waving exercise is futile, whereas skylines are aesthetically pleasing each city has a lot more to offer.

the proposals for LD do look interesting, I'll give it a few years then go back there and have a good look....

fact is they are different cities with some absolutely awesome architecture. All this dick waving exercise is futile, whereas skylines are aesthetically pleasing each city has a lot more to offer.



If you consider it futile, why the hell are you bringing it back when nobody has been doing it for weeks on this thread? It seems more like an excuse to give your opinion about your opinion on financial importance to me...

Here is an excellent website about the 185 m (607 ft) T1 tower currently under construction in La Défense:
http://www.t1-defense.com/

The website contains stunning renderings of the tower. There are also weekly updates with pictures showing construction progress, as well as lots of information about the tower. The tower is due to be completed in 2007 and opened in January/February 2008.

Just two renderings from the website:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/c/ca/Tun.JPG

This one shows Paris by night as seen from inside the T1 tower. If you pay attention, you can notice the Eiffel Tower in the distance through the window in the center of the picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/5/5e/T_un.JPG

Amazing tower

A bit more has filtered through today about the supertalls planned in La Défense. French architect Manuelle Gautrand revealed on her website that she's working on a skyscraper in the 300s meters (1,000-1,300ft). The developer is Unibail. She said renderings would be made public in the end of September (little less than 3 months from now).

This is supposed to be one of several supertalls to be built in La Défense within the next 9 years, but it is not known whether the skyscraper that Gautrand is working on would be the tallest or the second-tallest. Bernard Bled, the director of La Défense Authority, has repeatedly (and again recently) said that the tallest tower would be above the 400m (1,310ft) mark.

Some beautiful panoramic views of La Défense at night.
Just imagine the new supertalls standing in the middle of these pictures...

http://www.arnaudfrichphoto.com/Images/la-defense-panoramique-327.jpg

http://www.arnaudfrichphoto.com/Images/la-defense-panoramique-1.jpg

It would be amazing if they turned the huge plaza at the centre of LD into a massive park. Imagine sat in that and being surrounded by all these beautiful new scrapers.

Some beautiful panoramic views of La Défense at night.
Just imagine the new supertalls standing in the middle of these pictures...

http://www.arnaudfrichphoto.com/Images/la-defense-panoramique-327.jpg

http://www.arnaudfrichphoto.com/Images/la-defense-panoramique-1.jpg
absolument fantastique !!!!!!!!!!!!

^^If those pics are not enhanced, then I am so convinced that Paris is the City of Lights!

Actually

france is in the Final and England...................................

^^If those pics are not enhanced, then I am so convinced that Paris is the City of Lights!


Actually, these two pictures only show paris suburbs :D

It looks a bit boring with almost every building the same height.

Actually

france is in the Final and England...................................

Woah you ain't going to last long around here.

It looks a bit boring with almost every building the same height.

Yeah, as flat as a pre-pubescent teen... got any socks to sort today, or are you just pleased there's a Paris picture to shit on?

It looks a bit boring with almost every building the same height.

What do you mean? What's wrong with towers in London? Swiss Re, 1 canada square, even T42 are better than that.

Yes, I prefer La Defense to CW as well at the minute, but I prefer London city now and in the future



Newcastle kid, stop being a pain in the ass, nobody forces you to post on this thread, and it's obvious you don't care about Paris and it's projects, so stop polluting the thread.

Bon à moi de casser : un peu surexposées par endroit ces 2 tof. Je blague :)

Hmm, you voice your opinion, and get verbaly attacked here? It seems a UK forumer can't make an observation about Paris without getting attacked. And to add, it wasnt particularly bad, I think you guys are over reacting, and Brunob, I feel you should think about posting comments about teens when to be honest you are making yourself out to be less mature than one. Again just an observation:)

Oh and by the way it's a shame none of you were able to actually disagree with me, and instead made digs at me as a person instead of trying to debunk my comment. It does like nice, but as I said, nearly all the buildings are the same size. Would anyone actually like to reply to my comment, or are you just going to continue insulting me?

anyway, I didn't mean any harm, just said what I thought. And to be honest I am to relaxed right now to give a monkeys about what you guys say about me, so bye!

Enjoy your thread :goodbye:

It does like nice, but as I said, nearly all the buildings are the same size. Would anyone actually like to reply to my comment, or are you just going to continue insulting me?
As an avid Paris-thread reader like you already now, within a mere 9 years La Défense will look like this. But I'm sure by then you'll find other reasons to denigrate it.

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/LD2015.jpg

Wow Paris is going to look great when (if? i assume some are not certian)those towers are built!
However i realy dont like granite tower, dont know why? just dont

:cheers:

I hate to tell this but the 400m supertall is rumored to be cropped to a max 300m. Some people think that the tower should not be taller than the Eiffel Tower :( Let's hope all this is only rubbish though.

As an avid Paris-thread reader like you already now, within a mere 9 years La Défense will look like this. But I'm sure by then you'll find other reasons to denigrate it.


:lol: Dream on

This is never going to happen. Not that fast, and probably not that high.

I hate to tell this but the 400m supertall is rumored to be cropped to a max 300m. Some people think that the tower should not be taller than the Eiffel Tower :( Let's hope all this is only rubbish though.
Cyril, spreading unfounded rumors doesn't really help inform people. If you specifically know of someone who said that the new supertalls shouldn't be taller than the Eiffel Tower, quote your sources. As far as I know, nobody said such thing. On this matter, there is no better source than the director of La Défense Authority himself, don't you think? Two weeks ago, he was asked specifically this question: "With this project (La Défense 2015), are you trying to compete with the Eiffel Tower by reaching the 400m (1,300 ft) mark?"

This is what he answered (I translate his entire answer):
"Of course, there's no point trying to compete with the Eiffel Tower, which has become the symbol of Paris and France since the end of the 19th century. However, I do think that a bit of daring architecture every other century isn't excessive. And symbolically, building in Paris - or at least in La Défense, its business district - a new generation tower with a height surpassing the Eiffel Tower and with a style in accordance with the architectural culture of our country, is absolutely necessary to show the rest of the world that our country has rediscovered a sense of ambition."

:lol: Dream on

This is never going to happen. Not that fast, and probably not that high.
The timetable and planned heights were indicated by La Défense Authority. I'm basing myself on that. Everything else is pure speculation.

@ brisavoine: just read forumer Darklan there (http://www.paris-skyscrapers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1408&p=28) .
He works on one of the architectural bid projects.

@ brisavoine: just read forumer Darklan there (http://www.paris-skyscrapers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1408&p=28) .
He works on one of the architectural bid projects.
The guy referred to "some people in the higher spheres". If by that he means Dominique de Villepin, or more probably Jacques Chirac (which wouldn't surprise me), then they will be out of the way in May 2007. Nicolas Sarkozy, as everybody knows, is in favor of the supertalls in La Défense. As for Ségolène Royal, she hasn't expressed any opinion about the project, not that I know of. In any case, there'll be many more rumors until 2015. I'd rather we stick only to facts and published opinions such as that of the director of La Défense Authority.

Or maybe Bertrand Delanoe who knows :?

As you know, La Défense is outisde of Bertrand Delanoë's jurisdiction.

The only people who could alter the La Défense 2015 project are:
the director of La Défense Authority: Bernard Bled (a former protégé of Jacques Chirac)
the chairman of La Défense Authority and chairman of the Hauts-de-Seine departmental council: Nicolas Sarkozy (who also happens to be candidate for next year's presidential election and is a vocal critic of Jacques Chirac)
the French government, under whose jurisdiction is La Défense: namely, prime minister Dominique de Villepin and president Jacques Chirac, who will most probably both leave French politics in May 2007

Absolutely no one else has any decision-making power over the project.

I hate to tell this but the 400m supertall is rumored to be cropped to a max 300m. Some people think that the tower should not be taller than the Eiffel Tower :( Let's hope all this is only rubbish though.
I hope this is just a rumour,that makes no sense at all.

The half-yearly Paris - Crane Survey has been released: link (http://www.businessimmo.info/_documents/wbg_lettre_article/Paris%20Crane%20final.pdf). Published by Drivers Jonas - European Property Consultants and by the Grecam research group twice a year, it lists all new and refurbished speculative office developments in central Paris and its inner suburbs. Please note that only developments with more than 1,000 m² (10,764 sq. ft) of office space are surveyed. Also note that the outer suburbs of Paris are excluded from the survey, leaving large office developments (such as Dassault Systèmes in Vélizy or EADS in the southern suburbs) out of scope. The figures listed below are thus only a partial picture of office development in Greater Paris (although a good enough indicator given that most developments in Greater Paris are located in central Paris and its inner suburbs).

According to the survey, as of March 31, 2006 there were 1,358,701 m² (14,624,939 sq. ft) of office space under construction or refurbishment in central Paris and its inner suburbs. 32% of that total office space, i.e. 434,076 m² (4,672,355 sq. ft), already have pre-lets. In the six months from the beginning of October 2005 to the end of March 2006, 312,506 m² (3,363,786 sq. ft) of office space were completed and delivered to clients.

Among the 1,358,701 m² currently under construction or refurbishment, 323,726 m² (3,484,558 sq. ft) are in the City of Paris proper, 269,305 m² (2,898,775 sq. ft) are in La Défense, and the remaining 765,670 m² (8,241,603 sq. ft) are in the inner suburbs, essentially the western inner suburbs. The three largest office developments under construction are the Granite Tower (68,000 m²/732,000 sq. ft), T1 Tower (65,651 m²/706,661 sq. ft), and the new headquarters of AXA (three mid-rise buildings linked by an underground street: 60,200 m²/647,987 sq. ft). These three developments are inside or near La Défense.

For a better understanding of these figures, as of December 31, 2005, the total area of (already built) office space in Greater Paris (including outer suburbs) amounted to 49 million m² (527 million sq. ft). The La Défense 2015 project, with several supertall skyscrapers due to be built, will result in the construction of 850,000 m² (9,150,000 sq. ft) of office space (500,000 m² new office space, and 350,000 m² refurbishment).

This map shows all speculative office developments larger than 5,000 m² (53,820 sq. ft) completed and delivered to clients between 1998 and 2004 in Greater Paris. In light blue are reconstructions and refurbishments; in dark blue are new constructions.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mg/3/33/ParisOffice1.JPG

An interesting German analysis of the Paris office market:
Can Paris beat London? (http://www.ivg.de/download/PLAN_1-2004_en.pdf) (on pages 8, 9 and 10 of the PDF)

I guess these office market trends explain the logics behind La Défense 2015 project and other skyscraper projects in the Paris area.

Great news today. It has been announced on the La Défense Authority website (www.ladefense.fr (http://www.ladefense.fr/index.php)) that the La Défense 2015 project, which entails the construction of several supertall skyscrapers, will be officially adopted Tuesday next week (July 25). Here is my translation of the announcement posted on their website. Words in brackets [xx] are translator's notes to clarify the text.

"On Tuesday July 25, 2006, an extraordinary board meeting will take place at [the headquarters of] La Défense Authority. Nicolas Sarkozy, Minister of the Interior and chairman of the Hauts-de-Seine departmental council, and Dominique Perben, Minister of Transportation, Public Works, Tourism and the Sea, will present the plans selected by the [French] State for the future of La Défense Business District.

The decisions that [the French government] came to aim at launching a significant new development phase for La Défense that will give [the business district] new assets absolutely necessary to reinforce its position as Europe's number one business district."

It seems we will see some renders on Tuesday :okay:

No, no renders, just the official government green light to the project, and maybe some details as to exactly how many supertalls will be built, and how tall they will be. Renderings are due for the end of September, that's what several forumers working in famous architect firms across the world have said.

I secretely hope 2 towers taller than 300m in La defense :)

I think hight of the scrapers and renderings must be keept out of the public eyes.

About Paris vs. London economic and etc. comparation usually London data is overated like Eurostat GDP and GDP per capita of the European Regions where Central Londonpresented like the best among IDF and other huge European Regions even it is smaller ten and even more times?

By GDP per capita Paris region IDF is the best in Europe and only state of the Luxemburg (by Euro standards presented like region) have the higher GDP per capita than Ile de France and Central London? Luxemburg is state, Central London is center of the the city London and not comparable with Paris Region not to mention region of the Ile de France, so after all Euro region with highest GDP per capita in Europe is Ile de France and what is the most important it is one of the biggest regions in Europe. Anywhere every statistics about Euro cities or regions we must examine very careful, becouase many times those are just advertisning, usually London advertisning, like I was read that London is best traffic connected city in Europe, even they drive on another side than all Europe, and you must wait with your car, bus and etc few hours to be transfer by trains or ships on Europe mainland, not to mention that British train system is behind French and German least twenty years. Like we see from Olympics bids, Paris have everything now, what London or UK must construct for Olympics 2012. Until that Paris will have a lot more than now.


So that is way Paris beats London in everything and why many British here are so jalous on Paris and allways try to advertise London on threads about Paris on this forum. Just question is why forum leaders tolerated that in past?

Like we see from Olympics bids, Paris have everything now, what London or UK must construct for Olympics 2012. Until that Paris will have a lot more than now.


And you wonder why Paris lost? London is building amazing state of the art stadiums especially for the games, which will cement it as a sporting capital in Europe, while Paris wanted to use a stadium already nearly a decade old now. The only citiy comparable to London's economy is New York, and maybe Tokyo.


So that is way Paris beats London in everything and why many British here are so jalous on Paris and allways try to advertise London on threads about Paris on this forum. Just question is why forum leaders tolerated that in past?

You can take my word I am in no way jealous of Paris. Except for maybe the nice tree lined boulavards, I liked that. I have been twice, and it's a very nice city, but I have no reason to be jealous, especially with the vast redevelopment going on in London.

So that is way Paris beats London in everything
You're funny :lol:

Don't feed the troll, and more important, don't act like one either; London and Paris perfectly compare in size or economic weight or whatever. London has a more important financial sector and that's it, good for them , and so what ? now back to the Projects.

The only citiy comparable to London's economy is New York, and maybe Tokyo.
According to Eurostat (source (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2006/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2006_MONTH_05/1-18052006-EN-AP.PDF)):
- total GDP of Greater Paris in 2003: 448.5 billion euros
- total GDP of Greater London in 2003: 298.7 billion euros

According to ORIE website (source (http://www.orie.asso.fr/Note 17.pdf)):
- total office stock in Greater Paris in 2005: 48.5 million m²
According to the GLA website (source (http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache:pGO90ERiu-MJ:www.london.gov.uk/mayor/strategies/sds/further-alts/docs/alts-ch3B.rtf+%22london%27s+office+stock%22+%22square+metres%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1)):
- total office stock in Greater London in 2005: 28.5 million m²

So please! Stop posting insulting messages here. This is not the first time. Your chauvinistic and disparaging attitude is a disgrace to this forum.

^^ I replied to a blatant attack on my capital city, don't you dare make accusations of me being insulting and calling me disgracefull when a parasian above me launched an attack on London, and UK forumers which I only replied to. It is extremely hypocritical to accuse UK forumers of things and not the french forumers who started it. And it seems alot of the time I have posted my opinion of some of the things in Paris I have been met with hostility, I believe last time it was an attack against me being a teenager (I know, how pathetic are some people?) for saying something about a picture and how alot of buildings in Paris are the same height. Apparently no one could disagree with my comment because it was a fact, so attacked me instead. So don't you go attacking me and other UK forumers when the french forumers can be just as bad, if not worse at times.



Now get back to Paris 2015 and stop dragging this shit out!

Brisavoine - I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a!

I have been met with hostility, I believe last time it was an attack against me being a teenager (I know, how pathetic are some people?) for saying something about a picture and how alot of buildings in Paris are the same height. Apparently no one could disagree with my comment because it was a fact, so attacked me instead.

Now get back to Paris 2015 and stop dragging this shit out!


Nobody answered to you with facts because this forum has been plagued (to which I sometimes contributed, something I now regret) by Paris vs London petty fights in its few years of existence, and everybody is getting tired of it.

So people did not answer to your provocations on a Paris thread because nobody wanted a Paris vs London again.

Now can you please, leave this topic, and all the other trolls as well?

I replied to a blatant attack on my capital city, don't you dare make accusations of me being insulting and calling me disgracefull when a parasian above me launched an attack on London, and UK forumers which I only replied to. It is extremely hypocritical to accuse UK forumers of things and not the french forumers who started it. And it seems alot of the time I have posted my opinion of some of the things in Paris I have been met with hostility, I believe last time it was an attack against me being a teenager (I know, how pathetic are some people?) for saying something about a picture and how alot of buildings in Paris are the same height. Apparently no one could disagree with my comment because it was a fact, so attacked me instead. So don't you go attacking me and other UK forumers when the french forumers can be just as bad, if not worse at times.
Your messages would sound more credible if they weren't always negative and disparaging. I cannot recall that you ever wrote one single positive thing about Paris. Besides, this thread is not about how good or how bad Paris is, it is about informing people on future skyscraper projects in Paris. If you want to vent your frustration and distaste with Paris, create a "Paris is the worst city in the world" thread at Citytalk and Urban Issues (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9). That's the proper place. Until then, don't be surprised if you encounter renewed hostily here each time you disparage Paris, which is not the purpose of this thread.

I also can't help thinking that it's rather funny for someone professing not to like Paris like you to spend his time checking this thread several times a day...

^^ I don't recall ever actually saying I don't like Paris, been twice, really enjoyed it. I have been in this thread a few times, but so? Is that a crime? I certainly don't come in every day either.

It is amasing how forum leaders accept that British trolls destroy with lies every Paris thread?

Guys from UK, every time when you post a posts on Paris thread it just proved to rest of the us how you are jalous on Paris. Admit, Paris beats London in almost everything. Security, GDP per capita, transport in the city, motorways, high speed trains, Parisian also drives cars on the same side like the rest of the Europe and etc.

Newcastle,
voting for the city host of the OG is everything but based on qualities of candidate cities. You know very well for OL bids that Paris is ahead of the London in everything? What will London construct for 6 years is not any argument for good city. I want things what Paris have today, not for six year the same things will be construct in London? Six years is big period of the time, and do you think Paris will not construct anything?

Why French forumers don't troll London threads? Becouase French forumers are not jalous on the London.

^^ Get a brain, and then we'll talk ok?

Oh and paris rules!!

George5, please shut up, you're embarassing...You're the one who destroyed this thread, and actually, I agree that Newcastle-Kid didn't start anything in this thread.

Can someone put Georgie in the brig or something?

George5, please shut up, you're embarassing...You're the one who destroyed this thread, and actually, I agree that Newcastle-Kid didn't start anything in this thread.
George 5 wasn't right to post provocative messages, but Newcastle Kid wasn't right either with his insults and anti-Paris diatribe. George 5 deserves to be put in the brig, but Newcastle Kid deserves the brig too.

^^ Sorry but I haven't tried to be offensive in this argument, just defensive. Frankly I didn't realise how annoying people like George can be, and I realise I have been abit like him in the past. I do regret some of the things I said, but remember I was just replying to someone on this account

So you do check this thread several times a day... Admit it, you're fascinated by Paris.

And for the tower Mozart at Issy les Moulineaux.
What 's the news ?

http://ladefense.free.fr/1/mozart.jpg

cancelled the projet of 400 meter in la defense :badnews: :cry: :mad2: :evil: :mad:

^^ The truth is that it should be shortened a bit... Let's wait and see the results in September.

So you do check this thread several times a day... Admit it, you're fascinated by Paris.

What, are you trying to antogonise me further so I can say something stupid and end up in the brig? I visit the UK forums a hell of alot more, I visit the Shanghai thread, I visit the New York thread etc... I refuse to say anything bad about Paris future projects, because you are making it blatantly clear that is what you want. You are an idiot.