Just some speculative designs for the original retail heart of city. Now that St Johns and Clayton Square are joint owned and there is greater density to the rear of central, wouldnt it be a good idea to flatten the following:

CENTRAL
CLAYTON SQ
ST JOHNS CENTRE

and link the three with new developments (By seperate international architects similar to PSDA) and provide a breathe or fresh air to this part of town? it is the first impression for both Northern and mainline visitors.

The following images i have put together are for a design that would see a better flow from Lime street to church st, as well as linking Central and the ropewalks area more effectively with the civic quarter or the city, ie St Georges hall and the museums. By opening up this area, London Road may also be able to better attach itself the city again perhaps.

The key aim to stimulate discussion for this part of the city, which, at the moment will not be a "gateway"" simply on the back of new steps and a new tower outside lime st!

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841122/ffd.jpg

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interesting, but wouldnt work imo. well done

i like the idea, but the layout i dont like

Good stuff...
there are a number of people who can render ideas like this who use this forum... perhaps you should arrange a meeting of you all?

Certainly invaluable skills to have on call for some of the design initiatives 21CL could investigate!

would be gr8 2 see a render for a desent cluster in the Pool

Yuppie, what tool do you use for your renders?

Also, how about doing a highrise cluster in the Dale Street, Victoria Street area, knocking down crap like the Yorkshire Bank/Moorfields building and building on the vacant plots currently used as car parks that there are so many of in that area?

This idea is simply dipping the toe in the water, i think the time is right for something more holistic at this part of town!

ps, i use sketchup for this lol

ive pretty much got a whole city centre model to play with an here, any requests?

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841256/ffd.jpg

get rid of the liver buildings and see what you can do with that space....and see wat controversy you make aswell!!!

I think a tower behind Central station would be nice and maybe another on Skelhorn St for starters?

More images, first looking down Lime Street, with St Georges hall to the right:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841287/ffd.jpg

more images, looking to lime st

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841288/ffd.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841293/ffd.jpg

How about a cluster at the bottom of Parliament Street?

Plans to do somethign like this really arn't that far fetched. It is well known how ugly everyone thinks st johns is, and now that st johns and clayton square are under the same ownership, who know's what could happen. Also i heard that if the new central tower gets built (plans unviled on 7th) then this will be linked in with the central station, so u wont have to walk down bold street to get to the station, u will just go straight down.

However, i dont think any of this would happen until all of the paradise street project area is complete, we would be too much of a building site to cope with if it was all going on at the same time

Plans to do somethign like this really arn't that far fetched. It is well known how ugly everyone thinks st johns is, and now that st johns and clayton square are under the same ownership, who know's what could happen. Also i heard that if the new central tower gets built (plans unviled on 7th) then this will be linked in with the central station, so u wont have to walk down bold street to get to the station, u will just go straight down.

However, i dont think any of this would happen until all of the paradise street project area is complete, we would be too much of a building site to cope with if it was all going on at the same time


Just think how exiting it would be though.

it would be amazing!

http://onfinite.com/libraries/841293/ffd.jpg
that would look great

classic, notice Manchester and leeds there city cntres are fucked beyond repair. Manchester is really minty and there tall buildings look fucken ridiculous.. Liverpool was built to impress manchester to store, well known fact..Liverpool and London are the only two citys to get away with skyscrapers, especially on waterfornt.. theyde look fantastic.. what about central station tower? and whats happening with harvey nichs, self, bloomingdales, and macys.. And will someone please in form manchester that our city is is bigger than theres.. all other citys agree theres are smaller, ours is 3rd

classic, notice Manchester and leeds there city cntres are fucked beyond repair. Manchester is really minty and there tall buildings look fucken ridiculous.. Liverpool was built to impress manchester to store, well known fact..Liverpool and London are the only two citys to get away with skyscrapers, especially on waterfornt.. theyde look fantastic.. what about central station tower? and whats happening with harvey nichs, self, bloomingdales, and macys.. And will someone please in form manchester that our city is is bigger than theres.. all other citys agree theres are smaller, ours is 3rd


I agree Liverpool's skyline is unique. And only Liverpool and London's skyline can really get away with a skyscraper skyline out of the major English cities (Glasgow would look great too), due to their impressive seafronts. It just doesnt look right to me in Manchester But Manchester has many things going for it that Liverpool hasn't. (I wish we had their council when it comes to planning as they seem to have much better commercial developments than here!).

As for Manchester being smaller than Liverpool. Well consider this. Liverpool is currently about 450,000 (879,000 at its peak) and Manchester 400,000. Both cities suffer in that their city boundaries are tightly drawn despite having suburbs that spread well into many neighbouring authorities. Neither city is now listed in the top 5 British cities cause the areas of the two are both tiny when compared with other cities. eg. Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford have city boundaries many times the size of Liverpool and Manchester (Indeed Liverpool fits into present day Leeds more than 5 times!).

if Liverpool was expanded to incorporate most of its suburbs:

as far north as Formby, L37 and Lydiate, L31,
as far northeast as Kirkby, L33,
as far east as Rainhill, Whiston and Prescot, L35/L34,
as far south east as Halewood, L26 and Hale, L24,

its population would double to just under 900,000 (a more realistic figure), and become the 4th city of the UK.i reckon if Manchester did the same (1.2 million), it would surpass even Birmingham and become the second city of the UK.

i meant the city centres... ours is in the top 5, we stand at no5 actually, bradford and Leeds arent in it.. thats mearly for population... Liverpool was designed to britains 2nd biggets city, and stopped, and will continue... we will hopefully reach 3rd in years to come, we are now 5th..

.

However, i dont think any of this would happen until all of the paradise street project area is complete, we would be too much of a building site to cope with if it was all going on at the same time

Oh no we would`nt, lets not use 2008 as a excuse to stop building.
Developers won`t hang around, with rising construction prices ( steel !) they won`t sit on their assets :) they want to build and fast!! They COULD DECORATE the hoardings with pretty pictures ",and the Echo can award a prize for the best site. Back in 2002 when Manchester hosted the Commonwealth Games many of the deralict buildings were cover`d with canvas murals, remember John Lennon draped over St Georges Hall ??

Agreed after all 2008 is "just one small step" individual building sites around town will not in themselves be a hindrance, we just need to complete the "small dig" and give pavements back to the people. Only Lime St. Gateway, the public realm bit not the tower, poses a problem I think that part must be completed ASAP.

Agreed after all 2008 is "just one small step" individual building sites around town will not in themselves be a hindrance, we just need to complete the "small dig" and give pavements back to the people. Only Lime St. Gateway, the public realm bit not the tower, poses a problem I think that part must be completed ASAP.

Let's hope that it progresses outwards from individual building sites around town in the direction of building on large, derelict sites in the inner city. The last thing we need in this city is a continuation of the cycle of deprivation that blights the inner city. If the 'new heartlands' shite is anything to go by, it looks as though it's going to be more of the same.

Sure the city centre is sexier. Scouseyuppie, any chance of doing a model of the area from Parliament Street to Dingle Lane and Princes Avenue to Sefton Street showing what it could look like 20 years from now, money no object etc. Even if I only ever saw it in model form, I'd be happy.

Let's hope that it progresses outwards from individual building sites around town in the direction of building on large, derelict sites in the inner city. The last thing we need in this city is a continuation of the cycle of deprivation that blights the inner city. If the 'new heartlands' shite is anything to go by, it looks as though it's going to be more of the same. .

Agree, its vital to get the city centre re-built and not to forget the inner city, but this is starting to happen, The Reach development has jumped out of the centre across Leeds St and the Vermont project down on Sefton St has done likewise. Both of these will help to extend the city centre and populate the inner city, lets hope for more in the next few years, as to have a decayed and desolate inner city area would be a monumental mistake.

They have been intefereing down the south end also. There have been a number of good proposals that have been made and rejected. Even the eco tower has been made 'less eco' to accommodate the wanky notions of these city killers!

When I was younger, lookikng from the Pierhead down the south docks was like truly impressive, massive warehouses and grain mills making for a really tall/bulky skyline.

So we are to do away with our real urban/big city 'heritage' also to accommodate their alien notions of Cantebury and Bath!

When I was younger, lookikng from the Pierhead down the south docks was like truly impressive, massive warehouses and grain mills making for a really tall/bulky skyline.!

When I was much younger, you could drink yourself silly in all the dock road pubs from the Pier Head down to Hercy Dock , but we did have the old Southern Hospital to revive us :cheers:

New Heartlands has been call New Heartache as its causing damage and adding to the problem. The whole area from Park Road to Sefton Street is a disgrace and should be sorted out, linking the roads back up would be a start so the area isnt so cut off

New Heartlands has been call New Heartache as its causing damage and adding to the problem. The whole area from Park Road to Sefton Street is a disgrace and should be sorted out, linking the roads back up would be a start so the area isnt so cut off

Tell me about it. Woody mentions the old Southern Hospital just off Warwick Street. There are plenty of pictures of Warwick street full of life and buildings - even a 14 storey block of flats opposite New Henderson Street. Now look at it and Mill Street and Grafton Street, Mann Street, all blocked of with occasional outbreaks of low rise housing, glass topped brick walls isolating them from life on the street - dehumanising. The ultimate dead end. Eddy's chippy is still there on Warwick Street but almost everything else has slipped away. On a superficial level it looks better than it did a few years ago but it still has a slight feral feel to it - especially when it gets dark and you're under 20, male and alone.

When you do nothing to check the population decline that begins to happen... when you have a policy of depopulation and suburbanisation you get the horrific results we see down there and also in the North end...
Why are they trying to build Norris Green in central Liverpool?

Those who love secure by design and lowering density to spread the acreage of development are in the highest positions with regards to housing and development in the city... they also take a minimalist approach to local serv ice provision... and of course they hate highstreets... 'so urban'
it is not only the heritage bods downtown that are stipping the city of it's vitality... We have the brookside set doing their worst in the rest of the city!

Some images of the newly opened Arndale extension in Manchester. I think alot could be learnt by this development by those who own St Johns Centre. I light and airy approach has been taken with most space given to larger stores, joined by a selection of cafes, rather than humping them all together in one place, they kind of blend in nicely to the rest of the stores in a more random high street fashion (although undercover)

Imagine on the last image in which Arndale tower looms above, that the same thing was done with the old Market Hall in St Johns for instance with St Beacon Above!


http://onfinite.com/libraries/876656/b39.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/876657/b39.jpg

http://scouseyuppie01.onfinite.com/album/131673/876658/

http://onfinite.com/libraries/876658/b39.jpg

New Heartlands has been call New Heartache as its causing damage and adding to the problem. The whole area from Park Road to Sefton Street is a disgrace and should be sorted out, linking the roads back up would be a start so the area isnt so cut off

I agree. Development must come from the dock waterways and that redundant Dock Road cut off and built on, with Hill St, Warwick, St etc, serving the waterways and the lower area from the top.

The problem is that any upmarket developments will not want to be amongst this mismatch of council housing, which has its fair share of scallies. New developments will have to be on compulsory purchased land and the housing sorted out to make the are attract for developers.

John... Quick!
I have just suggested knocking the docks down and destroying the basins (not just filling them in), building fuck off tall skyscrapers, into the sky, fill them all with Irish prostituts of child bearing age and to link it all with a motorway... my proposals are getting huge support...hurry!

Tell me about it. Woody mentions the old Southern Hospital just off Warwick Street.


Caryl St off Hill St.


There are plenty of pictures of Warwick street full of life and buildings - even a 14 storey block of flats opposite New Henderson Street. Now look at it and Mill Street and Grafton Street, Mann Street, all blocked of with occasional outbreaks of low rise housing, glass topped brick walls isolating them from life on the street - dehumanising. The ultimate dead end.


It wasn't much better before, in fact worse.


Eddy's chippy is still there on Warwick Street but almost everything else has slipped away.


Yep, Eddie Lockharts. They originally had a fruit shop on Northumberland St, with the auntie having another in Warwick St. When redevelopment came both were moved to the same row of new shops (1961), and as you can't have two fruit shops together, one went to be a chippy. They were the first to have crinkly chips.

[/QUOTE]
On a superficial level it looks better than it did a few years ago but it still has a slight feral feel to it - especially when it gets dark and you're under 20, male and alone.
[QUOTE]

John... Quick!
I have just suggested knocking the docks down and destroying the basins (not just filling them in), building fuck off tall skyscrapers, into the sky, fill them all with Irish prostituts of child bearing age and to link it all with a motorway... my proposals are getting huge support...hurry!

Do you have the digger engines running, ready to roll?

It wasn't much better before, in fact worse.



[QUOTE]

How was it worse, John?

John... Quick!
I have just suggested knocking the docks down and destroying the basins (not just filling them in), building fuck off tall skyscrapers, into the sky, fill them all with Irish prostituts of child bearing age and to link it all with a motorway... my proposals are getting huge support...hurry!

You are not the full shilling .... :rofl:

[QUOTE=John-MK]

It wasn't much better before, in fact worse.

How was it worse, John?

Ever been in a war zone?

Did anyone see that aerial photograph of Liverpool in the Daily Post, yesterday? It was taken in 1961 and showed the south of the city centre with the old street grid still in place. The ruins of the Custom House were visible but South Castle Street and the network of streets branching off it were still intact.

I like the ideas in Scouseyuppie's first post but I think that the reestablishment of a street grid gives the interconnectivity that the city needs in every direction and therefore adds to the vitality and diversity of the city.

Its a shame that we don't get as upset over the loss of roads as we do over the loss of buildings.

Absolutely right Martin... a grid plan and a positive population growth campaign are the first policies we should develop... funnily enough, neither are on the radar.

somewhere quite a way down the list of essentials is a positive tall buildings policy... if we get the other aspects right then we will need one to cater for all that growth.