cont'd from loacked thread

yes indianapolis has always been charlotte's more realistic alternative to atlanta as far as gauging ourselves goes. i've always remembered a huge spread in the charlotte observer examining indy's downtown revitalization. now we're sharing our blueprints i guess. i got to go to indy for the first time last summer and liked it. street-level wise it reminded me of louisville, really great architecture too.

Harpers will locate in Carolina Place mall. the new expansion at carolina place will give it 1.3 million square feet compared to concord mills' 1.4 and south parks 1.4. of course concord mills just displays sprawl in that the mall IS sprawl with it all being one floor. pft.

Does anyone have photos and info on the Nascar Hall of fame??

If so could you post them here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=322438&page=1&pp=20


Please help me keep the thread up because you guys know more about the city than I do.

It would also be cool if you could post some construction photos or something.

Wachovia has now committed $800M for its new tower and associated arts projects. They plan on having a trading floor at the site that will house 2500 traders. Now that Wachovia has upped its commitment dramatically the city is only asking for a 3% increase in the car rental tax to pay for the rest of the arts projects. The Car Rental Companies have now signed on to this and it goes before the NC Legislature for approval next month. With the 3% increase in the Car Rental tax it would still be lower than the respective tax rates in Greensboro and Raleigh. Don't expect Wachovia to release any renderings till after this receives legislature approval.

This is awesome news! If the car rental tax is only 3%, this deal should be able to get approval by the state, you would think. Anyway, this is good news, and I hope that our state legislature will do the right thing and approve that car rental tax. This project is not only beneficial for Charlotte, but for NC as well.

800 million...HOW BIG IS THING GOING TO BE?? Jeesh!

I feel they are going to pass BOA HQ building in height and floors.

i think that development will truly help shape south tryon and give new life to that part of uptown. it will hopefully do a good job of linking the area to south end....even though there are still quite a few parking lots that are located on morehead street at tryon/college/all of those roads coming together.

If it pass BofA that will be awesome news for Charlotte. We'll keep our fingers crossed for you.

it won't pass it floors I guarantee but height maybe, its going for LEED Certification, and LEED certified buildings have much taller floors to completely utilize the sun for energy

All I can say is that this new Wachovia tower will take Charlotte to the next level.

Thanks Uptown. I'll take your word for it. I'm excited about this project!! We need a building that people in the South that everybody is going to talk about.

I'd love to see 65 stories and 1000ft.

I think the fact that the design is being kept top-secret bodes well for Charlotte.

I hope developers around the country start building more LEED buildings. Cities around the country are having resource issues and these can help take the strain off.

If Wachovia doesn't pass BofA (in terms of height) with this project, will it EVER? It seems this would be 'the big one' for Wachovia.

Wachovia has now committed $800M for its new tower and associated arts projects. ... Now that Wachovia has upped its commitment dramatically the city is only asking for a 3% increase in the car rental tax to pay for the rest of the arts projects. The Car Rental Companies have now signed on to this and it goes before the NC Legislature for approval next month.

It's really nice to read paragraphs like this. A local company-done-good is exceeding expectations, which causes positive ripple effects all through the city. The arts package, the skyline, the business scene... everything benefits from this one project.

And yes, this does seem to be "the big one" indeed. I can't imagine Wachovia committing this much to a project in the forseeable future. I truly hope their tower design is up to par, because this one is going to put a permanent mark on the skyline. In my mind, BoA is to Charlotte what ESB is to New York... if you're going to challenge it, you'd better bring your best to the table.

Wow! Charlotte and Nashville are both being too secretive. Word is Signature will be 65 floors and 1,047 feet tall. I wouldn't doubt both cities are trying to keep it a secret so that they can out-tall the other.

Meanwhile....Atlanta keeps humming along with 30-40 story ones. Not exactly a yawn but I'd like to see us maintain the tallest in Southeast.

Still, if Miami gets the 1,200' twin towers, I don't think anybody will touch that for quite some time.

Wow! Charlotte and Nashville are both being too secretive. Word is Signature will be 65 floors and 1,047 feet tall. I wouldn't doubt both cities are trying to keep it a secret so that they can out-tall the other.


The reason that Wachovia hasn't released renderings is because Charlotte has to receive approval from the NC Legislature to raise its Car Rental tax to pay for the associated Arts Projects. Wachovia has stated that if the Arts Projects are not paid for then it will only build a $200M tower....however if the Arts Projects are funded then it will build a $800M tower.

As soon the legislature signs off on the car rental tax possibly next month...then expect Wachovia to release the renderings of the tower soon after that.

:) Wow! Charlotte and Nashville are both being too secretive. Word is Signature will be 65 floors and 1,047 feet tall. I wouldn't doubt both cities are trying to keep it a secret so that they can out-tall the other.

Meanwhile....Atlanta keeps humming along with 30-40 story ones. Not exactly a yawn but I'd like to see us maintain the tallest in Southeast.

Still, if Miami gets the 1,200' twin towers, I don't think anybody will touch that for quite some time.

Miami might be moving those towers to Atlanta if global warming keeping going like it is. Miami might be under 20 t0 30 feet of water. :)

:)

Miami might be moving those towers to Atlanta if global warming keeping going like it is. Miami might be under 20 t0 30 feet of water. :)
LOL! With thousands of screaming Miami people chasing after it trying to get it back. Tell you what, you convince Miami to move one of them here and Charlotte can have the other.

In the Charlotte Observer this morning they had an updated rendering
of the Midtown project which is now being called the Metropolitan.
Construction has already begun on the stacked EXPO/Target and
construction on the rest of it should begin later this year.

-$200M urban marketplace on 16 acres right on the 277 loop
-145K sq ft of retail
-45K sq ft of restarants lining the Little Sugar Creek Greenway
-262K sq ft EXPO/Target
-150K sq ft of Offices in a 10 story tower.
-98 Condos in Phase 1

Sales Center Opens May 18 on Baxter St
http://www.metmidtown.com/Met_Images/minilogo.jpg
http://www.clturban.com/images/metropolitan.jpg
Image Courtesy Charlotte Observer and Cooper Carry

More info here:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/14486560.htm

and eventually here:
www.metmidtown.com

that is going to completly change that side of town. with royal court, the other condo tower, and the stuff going in down elizabeth street, there will be a lot of stuff going on.

great development for the Target!

It's about time Sugar Creek started looking like something other than a drainage ditch. One thing Charlotte misses is a waterfront, and that's about the closest thing we'll ever muster. Might as well make it look nice.

It's about time Sugar Creek started looking like something other than a drainage ditch. One thing Charlotte misses is a waterfront, and that's about the closest thing we'll ever muster. Might as well make it look nice.
I agree! I thought the comment about Sugar Creek looking like a drainage ditch was funny, I need to add an emoticon to that! In fact, I think I will add several! :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :hahaha:

there was a comment in the observer a while back that stated something as 'if the sugar creek was a private home, it would be cited for every lawn violation in the city.' it was getting rather narly.

speaking of greenways, did anyone forget we have the mcalpine creek greenway? that one is rather amazing if i do say so myself. i enjoy biking on it. not too much of a 'trail' park area, but it is fun.

whole foods coming to south park

The store will occupy 50,000 square feet at the southwest corner of Sharon Road and Colony Road, east of SouthPark mall.

The store, slated to open in 2009, will feature parking on two levels.

The previously announced Charlotte Whole Foods Market on Elizabeth Avenue is scheduled to open in 2008.

"SouthPark is a booming neighborhood and the perfect location for Whole Foods Market's second Charlotte store," said Scott Allshouse, regional president for Whole Foods Market. "We listened to the many requests from the Charlotte community to open stores here, especially in the SouthPark area, and this new location was chosen because of those requests.

Now, that's my kind of a project for living and working. Can't do the 40-50 story condos, too pudgey now-a-days.....will a trolley or LRT serve the area?

there will be a streetcar that will go down kings if i'm correct. it will then turn around near scott ave.

whole foods coming to south park

The store will occupy 50,000 square feet at the southwest corner of Sharon Road and Colony Road, east of SouthPark mall.

The store, slated to open in 2009, will feature parking on two levels.

The previously announced Charlotte Whole Foods Market on Elizabeth Avenue is scheduled to open in 2008.

"SouthPark is a booming neighborhood and the perfect location for Whole Foods Market's second Charlotte store," said Scott Allshouse, regional president for Whole Foods Market. "We listened to the many requests from the Charlotte community to open stores here, especially in the SouthPark area, and this new location was chosen because of those requests.

i'm picturing naperville, ill...my stomach turns. im sorry, i can't even picture whole foods, but i just passed that corner everyday of my childhood. i know it's inevitable, but that end of sharon still has some charm, even with borders etc. Compared to a whole lot of malls, SP still has a good mix of office and residential around there. the walgreens kills me. what can't make money around southpark? it's only a matter of time before sharon (esp. beyond tyvola towards harris Y) and colony (towards barcalay downs) are just gnc subway gnc subway gnc whatever. that's why city boys can't get attached to psuedo nature on sharon road. did you know that americans say towards and brits say toward and that there's no difference in the usage's? I wondered that for a long time.

I want some of what you are smoking! :)

there will be a streetcar that will go down kings if i'm correct. it will then turn around near scott ave.

It will come down McDowell/Stonewall/Kennilworth and then go down to East and loop around to Scott to come back downtown....unforturnately it will probably be a long time before that gets built...but it is in the works.

oh yeah. i got kings and stonewall mixed up. they are all the same. ;)

Some new renderings of the Metropolitan have been posted on their website:

View from Baxter St looking towards Independenc Blvd.
http://www.clturban.com/images/metropolitan1.jpg

View from the Greenway looking at MetTerraces...notice the skybridge connecting the 2 condo buildings.
http://www.clturban.com/images/metropolitan2.jpg

View from Independence bridge looking at MetTerraces.
http://www.clturban.com/images/metropolitan3.jpg

Damn, that looks good, I can't believe that's our Charlotte!

Damn, that looks good, I can't believe that's our Charlotte!
Yeah, this isn't your grandpa's Charlotte anymore! :)

Sharp renderings.

Yeah they do look pretty slick.

that's crazy. i think this project has the ability to do the most good on any part of the greenway. it is really going to change what was once a really dead section of uptown. that mall had been virtually closed (minus a DMV and a few things) for many years. it is nice to get some new life into that side of town.

Niiiiice. The only concern I have is that it doesn't look like a window-shoppy kind of complex. I hope that, in the flesh, it's a bit more alluring to pedestrian shoppers.

unc building put into governor's budget

UNC Charlotte's uptown facility, if approved, would provide about 100,000 square feet for offices and classrooms, beginning in 2009. It would mostly house graduate and professional programs in business, architecture and engineering.

A target market would be those who live and work uptown. More than 55,000 work uptown, and the resident population is close to 10,000.

^ Quite some time ago, a rendering was posted on here that was dismissed as a generic massing render instead of a genuine vision of the finished project. Yesterday, that same rendering was attached to the Observer article on the project. Is that five-story brick building indeed what is going onto the site, or are they still using a substitute for the time being?

i hope they do not go with that ugly thing. tell odell to design them something and they'll give them a graduate or two. ;)

From: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06141/691666-28.stm
___________________________
Charlotte, N.C. is now king at US Airways

Sunday, May 21, 2006

By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette




Chuck Burton, Associated Press
A US Airways jet passes by the skyline of Charlotte, N.C., as it approaches Charlotte/Douglas International Airport in this file photo.
Click photo for larger image.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Among all towns served by US Airways, the Queen City is king. Proof of its importance to the nation's fifth-largest airline was evident last week in the choice of gathering spot for the first shareholders meeting since last fall's union with America West Airlines.

It was no accident that US Airways Chief Executive Officer Doug Parker landed in Charlotte, flying cross country from his office in Tempe, Ariz.

Nor was it random that Mr. Parker began the meeting on Wednesday morning by praising this sunny southeastern city, its government officials and local business boosters, saying he was "extremely impressed" with their attentiveness to the importance of air travel.

There is perhaps no better symbol of US Airways' resurgence and hope for long-term survival than the once-sleepy and now-vibrant Charlotte. Named after the wife of King George III, it is one of the fastest-growing cities in the Southeast and the nation's second-largest banking center, a place teeming with young, smartly dressed workers, many of them employed by hometown giants Bank of America, the nation's second-largest bank, or Wachovia Corp., the fourth-largest.

A four-year-long retrenchment in Pittsburgh has left Charlotte as the largest hub in the US Airways network, with more than 500 daily departures and 121 nonstop destinations -- also more than US Airways strongholds Philadelphia, Phoenix, Las Vegas and New York. Charlotte is central to the airline's long-term, post-bankruptcy survival strategy, ferrying passengers every day from the big coastal cities of the Northeast south to more than 20 vacation spots in the Caribbean, and the airport is planning a fourth runway and a new parking deck to accommodate the demand for space.

"There is a real resurgence here in Charlotte, which will drive more and more opportunities for us," said Chuck Allen, who is in charge of government relations and city affairs for US Airways in Charlotte.

The sunny story of Charlotte acts as a foil to Pittsburgh, which lags the rest of the country in job growth, continues to lose population and, at Pittsburgh International, has seen its status as an air transportation hub decline dramatically.

It was only five years ago that Pittsburgh, not Charlotte, was king of the US Airways network, with 517 daily departures and more employees -- topping 12,000 -- than any other city.

Then came 9/11, two bankruptcies by US Airways and a change in strategy -- away from the heavy reliance on Pittsburgh connections between big cities in the Northeast and the rest of the country -- to more north-south connections along the East Coast, and to Florida, the Caribbean and Latin America.

US Airways now has 170 flights per day out of Pittsburgh, down from 236 last May, when the America West merger was announced. It has no flights overseas to Europe, and Mr. Parker said the chance of that returning was not good, with the airline not able to "make the numbers work" despite "inducements" offered by local officials.

Mr. Parker said last week that US Airways lost "lots and lots of money" in Pittsburgh over the last five years, as low-cost competition around the country drove down fares and profit margins.

But he said the carrier's service reductions at Pittsburgh International -- US Airways now accounts for just 55 percent of all flying at the airport -- took out the money-losing routes, making the local operation "marginally profitable." That's a far cry from when US Airways accounted for more than 90 percent of all airport traffic and the operation was a "cash cow" for the carrier, recalls local airline analyst Bill Lauer. But it does suggest further cuts are unlikely, a conclusion that Mr. Parker made in an interview last Wednesday.

Less likely are hopes held by some that US Airways will revive the Pittsburgh hub, perhaps as a way of alleviating congestion at delay-prone Philadelphia International Airport. "What I have heard through the grapevine," Mr. Lauer said, "is telling me that US Airways route network planners are in fact looking at reviving a lot of that transcontinental flying out of Pittsburgh as a transit point for [the airline's] East Coast operations. That was always very profitable for US Airways."

Mr. Parker dismissed such talk, saying Philadelphia, being a much larger city, could draw from a larger base of local air travelers. That is a message, he knows, that is not popular with Pittsburgh-area employees -- 3,000 of whom remain. "It is so emotional there still," he said.

Charlotte, he said, has not suffered from the same retrenchment because it is virtually the only option, other than Atlanta, for travelers in the Southeast hoping to make connections to the Caribbean or Latin America, the West Coast or the East Coast, whereas Pittsburgh has more geographic competition, occupying a denser part of the country.

"We connect all the Southeast here," said Mr. Parker, speaking from the Charlotte Convention Center, where the annual shareholders meeting was held.

And Mr. Parker has already proven he will fight for that prized turf.

When low-cost upstart JetBlue Airways announced plans for the start of Charlotte-JFK International service July 12 and JetBlue Chief Executive Officer David Neeleman said in a news release, "Until now, the people of North Carolina have overpaid for substandard service," Mr. Parker responded with three daily flights to the New York airport starting in September and a promise to "compete aggressively" with JetBlue.

In a letter to his 35,000 employees, Mr. Parker cited JetBlue's poor performance recently in on-time arrivals and the New York-based carrier's prediction that it would lose money in 2006. US Airways predicts a profit this year.

"It doesn't appear that our customers are overpaying; rather it appears that passengers aren't willing to pay JetBlue enough for them to be profitable," Mr. Parker said in the letter. "US Airways is going to be here long after JetBlue."

In Pittsburgh, though, US Airways made no such statements after JetBlue announced plans to fly from Pittsburgh International to JFK and Boston's Logan Airport starting June 30. When asked earlier this month about JetBlue's Pittsburgh incursion, Mr. Parker said, "We think our service is adequate."

As long as Charlotte continues to grow -- the city added an estimated 68,000 inhabitants and the six-county area, 184,000 in the past four years, pushing their population to 648,000 and 1,595,000, respectively -- and to emerge as a corporate center (it is home to nine Fortune 500 companies compared with seven in the Pittsburgh area), US Airways will do what it can to keep competition out.

At least for now, Pittsburgh can still claim the more popular airport.

Pittsburgh International still has twice as many shops as Charlotte-Douglas International, and passengers like the shopping options, spending twice as much on retail purchases while at the airport than do passengers in Charlotte.

But Charlotte is gaining in that area, too. It recently added an airport wine bar and a spa, where anxious passengers can receive a massage, a manicure or a pedicure before their next flights.

Some info and pictures of the Aloft (http://www.hospitalitynet.org/web/154000431/11009462.search?query=hotel%20brands) hotel brand that will be coming to Charlotte.

Isn't Duke Energy supposedly building a new tower in Charlotte?

no. they moved into 400 south tryon. that filled up their office space needs for the next while. i do not see them building anything new with their current situation

no. they moved into 400 south tryon. that filled up their office space needs for the next while. i do not see them building anything new with their current situation

Thanks. I was in Charlotte this weekend and enjoyed it.

This is something you don't see everyday: a skyscraper getting painted a new color. The 2 Wachovia tower was built in 1972 and at one time served as the HQ for what was then First Union Bank. They are painting it a new color so that it blends in better with its newly renovated neighbor Wachovia Main.

http://www.clturban.com/images/2wachoviapaint.jpg

I'll have to make sure I check that out next time I take a stroll Uptown; I guess I just didn't look up last night when I did.

This is something you don't see everyday: a skyscraper getting painted a new color. The 2 Wachovia tower was built in 1972 and at one time served as the HQ for what was then First Union Bank. They are painting it a new color so that it blends in better with its newly renovated neighbor Wachovia Main.

http://www.clturban.com/images/2wachoviapaint.jpg
Man...those guys don't get paid enough. A dizzying job.

deleted. double post

I know this is stupid but...WHEN will the AP and other media join USAToday and stop putting the "N.C." after Charlotte? It's not like one could confuse "Charlottesville" or "Charleston" (the "Char" cities in the South...even so, the same people who wouldn't know that "Charlotte" is in North Carolina probably don't know (or care) where other major cities are located.

IF you are going to be downtown this weekend for Taste of Charlotte make sure to stop by the 210 Trade Sales Center on College St in the Charlotte Plaza building. The sales center is not open yet but they have a 12 ft model of the entire EpiCentre complex you can view.

http://www.clturban.com/images/epicentrecollegetrade1.jpg

Damn! HOT model!

WOW!!! What a model. That will look incredible uptown. I can't even imagine how beautiful it's going to look at night. :eek2:

It's Green! lol

The model looks much cooler than the renderings I have seen. I did not like it till now.

I also think it will look great at night!

the hotel, though not what the model is supposed to highlight, leaves me wanting more. in terms of height, that is. if it were 5 floors taller, then i would be somewhat happy, but if it were 10 or 15 stories taller, i would be ecstatic. hopefully the design is not so commercial as other hotels are becoming, and the design is unique and fresh to charlotte.

the hotel, though not what the model is supposed to highlight, leaves me wanting more. in terms of height, that is. if it were 5 floors taller, then i would be somewhat happy, but if it were 10 or 15 stories taller, i would be ecstatic. hopefully the design is not so commercial as other hotels are becoming, and the design is unique and fresh to charlotte.

Rufus, I kinda like the rough Modernist approach the designers have taken with the aloft Hotel...

does anyone know the height of 210 Trade in feet? It's 53 stories - does that = 530'?

Is 210 Trade Street the same as the Epicentre?

does anyone know the height of 210 Trade in feet? It's 53 stories - does that = 530'?

No it will be closer to 630'...it will be about 12 ft per floor.

Is 210 Trade Street the same as the Epicentre?

No, it is easy to get them confused but 210 Trade is just the condo tower and EpiCentre is everything else (movie theatre/retail/restarants)

No it will be closer to 630'...it will be about 12 ft per floor.

Wow. Thanks for the estimate of 12' per floor for residential toweres. I guess this means that "The Vue" will also be in the 600' range. Amazing.

No, it is easy to get them confused but 210 Trade is just the condo tower and EpiCentre is everything else (movie theatre/retail/restarants)

For all practical purposes I consider them the same thing, since it will all just be one big complex on the same site.

That green glass is beautiful. This building is truley shaping up to be great. Now I really can't wait.

The green glass looks great! it gives the building a sort of tropical/coastal kind of feel. I like it.

The green glass is "different," that's for sure. For some reason, I think an old First Union logo belongs at the top. :D

The green glass is pretty, but none of the renderings I've seen to this point gave any indication of it. Are we sure that the actual building will have green glass? If so, great for the skyline; if not, poo on them for tempting us to think so.

For all practical purposes I consider them the same thing, since it will all just be one big complex on the same site.

That's what I meant. It's the same sight and the same developer, right?

That's what I meant. It's the same sight and the same developer, right?

Same block, but not the same developer. 210 Trade is being done by Flarhety & Collins, they actually bought air rights from The Ghazi Co to build the condo tower. Same thing with the aloft hotel, which is being done by the Noble Group....the rest of the project is being developed/owned by The Ghazi Co.

Same block, but not the same developer. 210 Trade is being done by Flarhety & Collins, they actually bought air rights from The Ghazi Co to build the condo tower. Same thing with the aloft hotel, which is being done by the Noble Group....the rest of the project is being developed/owned by The Ghazi Co.

Thanks. Are any other retail/entertainment developments planned for Charlotte? The downtown is beautiful, but it's dead. Something like Philips Place should be built in Uptown.

The downtown is beautiful, but it's dead. Something like Philips Place should be built in Uptown.

Downtown is NOT dead. Anybody who's been upown on a Saturday around the square knows better than to entertain that notion. Late nights and such, yeah, it is slow, but compared to five years or so ago it's Times freakin' Square.
Semantics aside, you should check out the N.C. Music Factory development just inside the loop. Once it's completed it will increase Charlotte nightlife presence by magnitude. Sorry I don't have a link.

I agree, "dead" isn't the word to describe central Charlotte anymore. This weekend Tryon St. was packed sidewalk-to-sidewalk for Taste of Charlotte. Granted, that's only a once-a-year event; but last week it was even more crowded over a larger area for Speed Street. And in less than a month there's the 4th of July show that drew over 100,000 last year.

Lloyd, I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind by "retail/entertainment", but the conversion of Midtown Square into a massive new shopping district is going to do big things for the southern edge of Uptown. And the complex that Wachovia is building on South Tryon is going to be pretty diversified as well, though it looks to be aimed more at a daytime crowd with museums and such.

If you put all that together, and add the thousands of condo units that are being built, the city in 2011 will be as different from today as today is from 2001.

I agree, "dead" isn't the word to describe central Charlotte anymore. This weekend Tryon St. was packed sidewalk-to-sidewalk for Taste of Charlotte. Granted, that's only a once-a-year event; but last week it was even more crowded over a larger area for Speed Street. And in less than a month there's the 4th of July show that drew over 100,000 last year.

Lloyd, I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind by "retail/entertainment", but the conversion of Midtown Square into a massive new shopping district is going to do big things for the southern edge of Uptown. And the complex that Wachovia is building on South Tryon is going to be pretty diversified as well, though it looks to be aimed more at a daytime crowd with museums and such.

If you put all that together, and add the thousands of condo units that are being built, the city in 2011 will be as different from today as today is from 2001.

What will be the location of Midtown Sqaure and what types of tenants will it have?

I am not knocking Charlotte. I really like it. However, I noted that two suburban cities outside of NYC (White Plains and Stamford, Ct.) have more weekened activity than Charlotte did when I was there during the last weekend in May.

What will be the location of Midtown Sqaure and what types of tenants will it have?

I am not knocking Charlotte. I really like it. However, I noted that two suburban cities outside of NYC (White Plains and Stamford, Ct.) have more weekened activity than Charlotte did when I was there during the last weekend in May.

Every city is different. I'm sure those two have had alot more time and initiative to encourage pedestrian activity, since the Norheast was the first part of America settled by Europeans. Charlotte is still a very young city, and all good things take time.

Midtown Square is the old mall once called Charlottetown mall, the first enclosed shopping mall in NC. It's already been demolished and is being reconstructed as Metropolitan, which is like Birkdale Village only on a much larger scale. (Birkdale, if you're not familiar with it, is a huge complex of ground-level semi-upscale retail with apartments and condos over them in suburban Huntersville). Metropolitan will include bistros and other upscale eateries under housing undoubtedly more expensive than Birkdale, and will include a rather interesting development on extra land beside the old mall: A Target built on top of a Home Depot EXPO Design Center (The rich man's answer to a regular Home Depot). And all of it will be constructed beside the new Sugar Creek Greenway. The renderings thus far have looked fabulous.

What will be the location of Midtown Sqaure and what types of tenants will it have?

I am not knocking Charlotte. I really like it. However, I noted that two suburban cities outside of NYC (White Plains and Stamford, Ct.) have more weekened activity than Charlotte did when I was there during the last weekend in May.

If you were here in the last weekend in May then I'm not sure how you missed the 400,000 people that were downtown then.

If you were here in the last weekend in May then I'm not sure how you missed the 400,000 people that were downtown then.

I was there on 5/28 and 5/29, and Uptown was empty.

As I noted, I really like Charlotte and hope to see more retail/entertainment venues built.

I was there on 5/28 and 5/29, and Uptown was empty.

As I noted, I really like Charlotte and hope to see more retail/entertainment venues built.

Yes Sundays and major national holidays with the exception of July 4th I would expect downtown to not be very active. If you had gone down there 1 day earlier it would have been the exact opposite...wall to wall people...literally.

Got an update on the Wachovia Tower and associated facilites today from Bob Bertges.

- In July Wachovia plans to publically release their renderings including 3D animation of the new tower.
- It will be 46 stories tall and 1.3M sq ft (approx 700+ ft)
- Bob describes it as "magnificent"
- The associated condo tower on Church St will be 30 stories tall (approx 375ft)
- With this tower Wachovia will bring 1700 NEW jobs to Charlotte with avg salaries of $500K (yes that is $500,000)

He also showed some sketches of the Mint, Bechtler, Dance Theatre, and Afro-Am center. They were very prelim, but he hopes to have better ones next month. What I did see looked nice. All of the buildings are angular, not many curves

Mint- Will have an angled roofline with an inverted angled front entrance. Almost the entire 1st floor of the Mint will be retail with the artwork on floors 2,3,4.

Theatre and Bechleter will share a large glassy main entry hall and loading dock. The 300 seat Wachovia amphiteatre will be below ground under the Bechtler. The Theatre will have a large flat/windowless wall that will face 1st St...they want to animate it somehow, still working on that. The Bechtler will be a cube with 1/4 of the cube cut out on the Tryon St side. The top floor of the Bechtler will be the main gallary with lots of skylights.

Afro-Am center will have its main lobby on the 2nd floor with gallerys on the 3rd and 4th. It will also have a large 4th floor outdoor terrace on Tryon St. It will have a large blank wall facing the parking lot that Wachovia has agreed to spend money to "animate"...my guess is that they will commision an artist to paint that wall with a large mural.

They are still hoping to get the local rental car tax increase passed in the NC Legislature by the end of July. That is the last main hurdle before this is a done deal.

In total this is approximately a $1 Billion dollar investment by Wachovia. All I gotta say is "damn"

Forty-six stories. Close to what I guessed on the other forum, 47 stories.

Average salaries of a half million dollars? Can I get a job?

I didn't know this project had an associated condo tower with it.

Wow.

As far as those salaries.....the rumor was that Charlotte will be stealing a lot of high-paying jobs from a different market in part of their consolidation of Inv. Banking move.....so I believe that could in fact be the real deal.....that's a LOT of money coming this way to buy a lot of expensive condos hopefully (and The Palisades Phase 72 more likely).

lol... yeah when Bob said average salaries of $500K at first I thought he must have misspoke, but then he went on to say how each trader will generate millions in revenue for the bank and that if Wachovia didn't locate these jobs here then they would be in NYC, London, or Hong Kong.

Charlotte will really get an economic development homerun if this comes to pass.

I was there on 5/28 and 5/29, and Uptown was empty.

It's a shame you weren't there Saturday night. If things looked a little "trashy" on Sunday, it was because of Speed Street. I tried to go down there, discovered that I literally could not get across a surface lot because of the crush of people (in a surface lot, for chrissakes), and gave up on it. Good times, though.

uptownliving, that's great info... post of the week award for you ;) I wasn't privy to the condo proposal either. Any ONE part of that project would be great for the city, let alone all of them in one bundle!

^ I just reread that post and want to clarify that the "trashy" comment was a reference to the garbage produced by the crowd, not a judgment on Speed Street or the people who came for it.

Freudian slip, eh? :hahaha:

Damn. Surprised about the 700' height. Maybe being "conservative" about the height is to demonstrate that the company is conservative and not wanting to seem to brash?

Thanks. Are any other retail/entertainment developments planned for Charlotte? The downtown is beautiful, but it's dead. Something like Philips Place should be built in Uptown.

Good lord, where were you? Downtown Charlotte "dead"? It's hard to imagine when you have a population density of almost 10K/square mile.

I walked up and down Tryon Street. Bear in mind that I am from NYC. Therefore, what might seem dead to me might seem lively to someone else. That might explain the discrepancy.

^No, it was your timing.

- In July Wachovia plans to publically release their renderings including 3D animation of the new tower.
- Bob describes it as "magnificent"
Hell yeah!!!! This is what I'm talkin bout!!!!!!!

^No, it was your timing.

Yeah, seriously LG, we already mentioned that, unless you missed those posts.

If Wachovia releases the new renderings in July, I hope it's on the 4th. Closer to the beginning of the month (which means closer to now), and I think something this big for Uptown should coincide with a national holiday. Call me eccentric, but it just seems to fit.

I was in Charlotte recently too and the city is totally dead. Almost NO ONE walking around, and everything was so brand new. It felt totally surreal, almost Vegas-like, but without the people walking around! I would hardly use a major festival as a demonstration of what it is "like" in downtown Charlotte.

I was in Charlotte recently too and the city is totally dead. Almost NO ONE walking around, and everything was so brand new. It felt totally surreal, almost Vegas-like, but without the people walking around! I would hardly use a major festival as a demonstration of what it is "like" in downtown Charlotte.

:tiasd:

Shit, I guess all these visitors are right; Charlotte is totally dead. I'll just discount all my knowledge of the city and decades of experience here, and the observations I make each and every day and night here, and accept the fact that we live in a dead city.

Damn.

It really depends on where you're from. Someone from Columbus, Ohio would not have found it dead. As a New Yorker, I did. It's nothing to be offended by. I found most US cities outside of the Northeast (and Miami, SF and Chicago) to be dead.

Shit, I guess all these visitors are right; Charlotte is totally dead. I'll just discount all my knowledge of the city and decades of experience here, and the observations I make each and every day and night here, and accept the fact that we live in a dead city.

Damn.

It's all relative. It depends on what you are used to and where you are from. Charlotte is very dead relative to Chicago, Evanston, Milwaukee, all areas that I am currently used to and living near, but very alive relative to Durham when I was living nearby there, for instance. If your standards are different, I'm sure Charlotte seems very much "alive" I guess, but to me it was totally dead relative to the places I am surrounded by. Honestly if the downtown is far less active than the downtown of Evanston, a north **suburb** of Chicago, then I consider it "dead." Sorry.

It really depends on where you're from. Someone from Columbus, Ohio would not have found it dead. As a New Yorker, I did. It's nothing to be offended by. I found most US cities outside of the Northeast (and Miami, SF and Chicago) to be dead.

Holy crap how in God's green earth could you find Miami, SF and especially Chicago (!!) dead? You clearly were in the wrong areas at the wrong times.

I believe he said that he doesn't find them dead.

It's all relative. It depends on what you are used to and where you are from. Charlotte is very dead relative to Chicago, Evanston, Milwaukee, all areas that I am currently used to and living near, but very alive relative to Durham when I was living nearby there, for instance. If your standards are different, I'm sure Charlotte seems very much "alive" I guess, but to me it was totally dead relative to the places I am surrounded by. Honestly if the downtown is far less active than the downtown of Evanston, a north **suburb** of Chicago, then I consider it "dead." Sorry.

Evanston, while technically a suburb, has a population density of over 3,600/km... several hundred denser than Staten Island :) Of course its downtown is going to be active.

But you have to understand that Charlotte is not a northeastern or midwestern city, so it's not going to have all its activity concentrated in one downtown district (even though it is doing a better job of densifying than many of its peers). Like you said, it's relative to where you're from... if you expect to find the entire city's activity condensed into one area, you're going to feel a bit bored by most Sunbelt cities. Having said that, Tryon St. is not "dead" by anyone's standards. Times Square it isn't, but you'd have to be there at entirely the wrong time to get the idea that there's nothing happening there.

I just get the impression that some folks are overstimulated.

I believe he said that he doesn't find them dead.

Oops... you're right. :bash:

Evanston, while technically a suburb, has a population density of over 3,600/km... several hundred denser than Staten Island :) Of course its downtown is going to be active.

But you have to understand that Charlotte is not a northeastern or midwestern city, so it's not going to have all its activity concentrated in one downtown district (even though it is doing a better job of densifying than many of its peers). Like you said, it's relative to where you're from... if you expect to find the entire city's activity condensed into one area, you're going to feel a bit bored by most Sunbelt cities. Having said that, Tryon St. is not "dead" by anyone's standards. Times Square it isn't, but you'd have to be there at entirely the wrong time to get the idea that there's nothing happening there.

Charlotte is a very nice place to live and I don't want to get in any argument, but in one sentence you say that the activity of downtown is just relative to where you are from, and then you say that Tryon St. is not dead by "anyone's standards." Isn't that a little contradictory? I will say that I found it to be extremely dead by my standards, which I don't believe are all that high. Charlotte just felt like an office park to me especially compared to a similar sized metro like Milwaukee which is an hour north to me. I'm sorry if this hurts the ego but it's nothing to get defensive or worked up about as the city is heading in the right direction as far as density and Milwaukee has had decades more of being a large city in order to refine it's urban environs, not to mention having miles of shoreline and a river in order to encourage density.

And as you say, it's all relative. But since this is a country where it is so easy to get around and explore other cities, relatively speaking I found Charlotte to be one of the most dead downtowns I have ever seen for a medium-sized city. I know how defensive people get about their cities though so let me just add that I believe Charlotte is overall a wonderful place to raise a family and overall I give it the thumbs up and a positive review. I also have a lot of friends there (I am a Tar Heel alum) which makes me somewhat nostalgic for the place.

^ I realized the tension between those ideas when I typed them. The point is that "dead" is not a relative term; while you might say that Charlotte is small or undeveloped compared to some other city, calling it "dead" is basically saying that there is zero (or close to zero) activity. And that is just not true, no matter where you're from. Uptown Charlotte has a decent amount of bustle, unless you happen to be there at an odd time or on a particularly slow day. The "office park" comment is one that's echoed often in the past on these boards, and I just find it to be off the mark. There are enough amenities in the general Uptown area, excluding perhaps Second Ward, that it simply does not feel like an office park the way it did 10 years ago.

I try not to get defensive, but as I type I'm getting ready to hop on the trolley to Tryon St., where I fully expect to see crowded restaurants, flocks of day-campers hanging around the museums, and street vendors selling hot dogs to the after-work crowd. That's the reality of what Charlotte is right now, today, as you read this. Comments that state matter-of-factly that it is "dead" are enough to make me wish I could take those forumers with me and show them what they somehow missed.

...relatively speaking I found Charlotte to be one of the most dead downtowns I have ever seen for a medium-sized city...
Now, I’m always one who believes firmly that folks shouldn’t “grab the bait” on this forum. But I have to put out two hands and tug on this one. I’m curious to know which “medium sized cities” you are referring too.

I was in Charlotte recently too and the city is totally dead. Almost NO ONE walking around, and everything was so brand new. It felt totally surreal, almost Vegas-like, but without the people walking around! I would hardly use a major festival as a demonstration of what it is "like" in downtown Charlotte.

When were you down this way?

And LloydGeorge, we've already established the fact that you weren't here on a "normal" weekend.

Having just returned from a long driving vacation, I honestly don't recall thinking, "Gosh! It's dead here!", when driving through Harrison, AR.

Would yall mind moving your petty arguments somewhere else? This thread is for projects discussion.

I try not to get defensive, but as I type I'm getting ready to hop on the trolley to Tryon St., where I fully expect to see crowded restaurants, flocks of day-campers hanging around the museums, and street vendors selling hot dogs to the after-work crowd. That's the reality of what Charlotte is right now, today, as you read this. Comments that state matter-of-factly that it is "dead" are enough to make me wish I could take those forumers with me and show them what they somehow missed.

Well listen, several of my roommates in college now live in Charlotte, and know the city well. Heck one of my best friends in Chicago is from there, and I have been to Charlotte many, many times. It's not like I was there 10 years ago. As you said, this is all relative, but you should take that to heart and realize that when people make comments like "dead" or "office park" it does not necessarily mean they don't know what they are talking about, or don't know the city well, and it certainly is no reason to get all defensive and act like Charlotte is some dense bustling city, which it is most certainly not and not where its strengths lie. Remember some of these people are coming from much more active downtowns, and just as if you went next weekend and visited Durham and came back telling your friends that it was "pretty dead," so people from other places may visit Charlotte with the same relative experience. I was just posting in agreement with this Lloyd guy... I seriously am not here to get into a pissing match so this is my last post. I understand how defensive people get about their cities so I was stupid for ever bringing all this up.

just because your roomate lives in charlotte does not mean they have a clue about the city.

people who 'live' in atlanta say they know about downtown activity, when they are the same people who are scared shitless when you mention a 'downtown' setting due to 'high crime.' many people just dont know, as is the case with you.

so you can stop now.

^

I think you forgot to read the part where I have SEVERAL friends living IN (not around) Charlotte who know the city extremely well, and that I have been to Charlotte many, many times over the years.

But you will get your wish, I'm not going to post anymore about this and I'm sorry I ever did. People on these skyscraper forums are basically super boosters of their city and I forgot they can't handle certain opinions. None of my friends know Charlotte, I have never been there and don't know what I'm talking about, yadda yadda yadda, if it makes you feel any better about yourself to believe all that more power to you. The reality is quite the contrary though, and I have been quietly reading the Charlotte development threads for years now because I really like the city and if God's direction for my life makes me end up there, I won't be upset.

According to the Charlotte Business Journal Print addition a 25 story condo/hotel tower is to be built at caldwell and trade right by the arena, its a 1/3 acre plot of land. There will be 150 hotel rooms with this building. :-D

Will be interesting to see the renderings for that building...how they are going to mesh it with the brick/glass/metal exterior of the Arena.

That arena will become one of the most pedestrian friendly arenas in the country...with a hotel, condo tower, main transit center and street level retail and the practice courts....they did a good job with urban design in the arena with the resources they had.

pay them no mind, Charlotte!

Will be interesting to see the renderings for that building...how they are going to mesh it with the brick/glass/metal exterior of the Arena.

That arena will become one of the most pedestrian friendly arenas in the country...with a hotel, condo tower, main transit center and street level retail and the practice courts....they did a good job with urban design in the arena with the resources they had.


Agreed. They are planning that very well.

Since the new arena tower will be so skinny does this mean the tower might be taller than a normal 25 story tower?

Anyway, Charlotte is going crazy right now!

That arena will become one of the most pedestrian friendly arenas in the country...with a hotel, condo tower, main transit center and street level retail and the practice courts....they did a good job with urban design in the arena with the resources they had.

I completely agree... once the retail is open, Epicentre is open, and these condo towers are finished (which would all, I assume, be done in the next 3-4 years), it'll be a great place just to go and walk around. Thankfully they built the arena exterior with the big staircase and plaza, which will be a nice place to people-watch, eat a hot dog, etc (plus you can hear concerts for free out there :) )

Since the new arena tower will be so skinny does this mean the tower might be taller than a normal 25 story tower?

Anyway, Charlotte is going crazy right now!

No it will more than likely be shorter than your typical 25 story tower especially since it will include a hotel.

I estimate the height at 250ft....that will make it similar in height and size to 122 S Tryon...the old tower at the Square.

I think this new addition will be great. I think we'll start to see a nice corridor evolve along Caldwell with coutside, the brown building (somehow forgot its name) and this new proposal by Blvd Centro. I know lots of folks hate that brown building but I actually really like it. Perhaps not in its current state but I think with a clean up that building would look great. Another thing thats great about these buildings is that they're adding some impressive height from a sidewalk perspective so that if you're walking through uptown the tall buildings will seem to continue yet these are shorter so that from a distance they don't block the view of our more signature buildings like BofA and Hearst.

A couple of updates, sans photos:

The Metropolitan now has a full-fledged sales office on their site off Kings Rd. I would imagine that they have some sort of model inside, though I haven't checked.

Also, across the street and in front of the Wendy's there is now a multi-story building going up.

Finally, lots of progress is being made on Epicentre. It looks like the bottom floor is partially complete, and some vertical construction is going on (on what I would believe is the base of the tower).

A couple of updates, sans photos:

Also, across the street and in front of the Wendy's there is now a multi-story building going up.


The new Wendys is now open and they will tear down the old Wendys in the coming weeks.

The multi story building is actually a 5 level parking deck for the Target/EXPO store.

I live in Newport News and all I hear is people going to raliegh, greensboro, Elizabeth City, Nags Head. When I mention charlotte and how I love it (my dad's and his fam is from there) and how big the buildings are (i have high school friends who think that this stuff is boring), they act as though they never heard of it or dont believe it. Is there any new projects that will make the city stand out besides of its wonderful Architecture. I love Charlotte, and I want people to go further down the interstate instead of stopping in Raliegh-Durham which I'm sure Charlotte has more to offer.....

The new Wendys is now open and they will tear down the old Wendys in the coming weeks.

The multi story building is actually a 5 level parking deck for the Target/EXPO store.

It certainly looks like a parking deck.

So what's going on the old Midtown Sundries site?

I live in Newport News and all I hear is people going to raliegh, greensboro, Elizabeth City, Nags Head. When I mention charlotte and how I love it (my dad's and his fam is from there) and how big the buildings are (i have high school friends who think that this stuff is boring), they act as though they never heard of it or dont believe it. Is there any new projects that will make the city stand out besides of its wonderful Architecture. I love Charlotte, and I want people to go further down the interstate instead of stopping in Raliegh-Durham which I'm sure Charlotte has more to offer.....
Yep, here’s a biggie opening this summer that is sure to get tons of national and even international attention...

The US National Whitewater Center
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/white1.jpg
http://www.usnwc.org/location.html


…near Charlotte, the world's largest artificial whitewater river is poised to open mid-month (exact date not yet determined) on 300 woodland acres along the Catawba River.

The U.S. National Whitewater Center sports about a mile of river in multiple channels in which the intensity of the current can be customized for paddlers of varying abilities. There's also a climbing wall, mountain biking trails and other facilities.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2006-06-22-water-attractions_x.htm

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/files/pdf/062905_899_0085494.pdf?CFID=926219&CFTOKEN=98814083

^^ in that pdf there is a wonderful rendering of the LOFT hotel.

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/files/pdf/062905_393_0002704.pdf?CFID=926219&CFTOKEN=98814083

and there for the gateway station area with that tower complex going on across the street.

It certainly looks like a parking deck.

So what's going on the old Midtown Sundries site?

Pic I took this afternoon:
http://www.clturban.com/images/targetexpodeck.jpg

And here is a pic of the old and new Wendy's together...for a limited time only.
http://www.clturban.com/images/wendys.jpg

Midtown Sundries will become part of the greenway.

So I still need to know how to post pix on this website, I have no clue how, and I wanna post the progress.

So I still need to know how to post pix on this website, I have no clue how, and I wanna post the progress.

xs.to can give you a url for the pics and this simple tags helps you post it...
[ i m g ]Image Url[ / i m g] without the spaces of course.....

Yep, here’s a biggie opening this summer that is sure to get tons of national and even international attention...

The US National Whitewater Center
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/white1.jpg
http://www.usnwc.org/location.html


…near Charlotte, the world's largest artificial whitewater river is poised to open mid-month (exact date not yet determined) on 300 woodland acres along the Catawba River.

The U.S. National Whitewater Center sports about a mile of river in multiple channels in which the intensity of the current can be customized for paddlers of varying abilities. There's also a climbing wall, mountain biking trails and other facilities.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2006-06-22-water-attractions_x.htm


THANK YOU! that sounds so awesome.

I live in Newport News and all I hear is people going to raliegh, greensboro, Elizabeth City, Nags Head. When I mention charlotte and how I love it (my dad's and his fam is from there) and how big the buildings are (i have high school friends who think that this stuff is boring), they act as though they never heard of it or dont believe it. Is there any new projects that will make the city stand out besides of its wonderful Architecture. I love Charlotte, and I want people to go further down the interstate instead of stopping in Raliegh-Durham which I'm sure Charlotte has more to offer.....

To be honest, Charlotte's strong points are going to be a bit mature for that age group. Most of its success has been in banking, energy, and quality-of-life issues. There's no big entertainment district or theme-parkish neighborhood for tourists, so unless they come in town for a concert, game or festival most high schoolers are going to find it a bit boring (this will change soon, with the various entertainment developments currently under construction).

But fwiw, Charlotte has the NFL and NBA, Carowinds, the new whitewater center, craploads of malls and shopping, and a reasonably active entertainment scene.

The NC Music Factory got a big push forward tonight when the City Council agreed to extend
Seaboard St connecting it to Graham St...this will make the NC Music Factory much more accesible
than it currently is. The cost of extending the road will be reimbursed by the taxs collected on the
NC Music Factory site...which means it will be paid off in less than 10 years.

Construction will begin on the new road late this year.

http://www.ncmusicfactory.com/images/render3big.jpg

http://www.raany.com/index.html
The architect for the nascar hall of fame exhibits has been chosen. Ralph Applebaum Associates Incorporated, aka raany, has been chosen as one of the first two employees of the Hall. This is an awesome choice, if you haven't heard of raany, they are responsible for newseum, AMNH, World golf hall of fame, country music hall of fame, ust check it out, they have the most impressive portfolio of anyone around and do some top quality work, this is going to be an exciting place to visit

The front-page spread in this week's Business Journal has to do with the redevelopment of Brevard St. as something other than a bunch of parking lots and cracked sidewalks. This has been a long time coming, as it's one of the last steps in linking the residential First Ward development with the entertainment-oriented stuff along N. College and around the arena. Personally I hope they take the opportunity to do the obvious thing and include a lot of mixed-value retail space that will help draw people out of both districts and circulate them in one place. If they do it right, that would make Brevard a potentially huge destination for local color and flavor.

There's also a less informative article on charlotte.com about the sudden upswing in commercial development, with a couple of pie-in-the-sky quotes about building Birkdale-style villages on the 485 interchanges (not in this lifetime).

edit now it works suddenly

can someone do me a favor?
Can someone PM mobuchu on UP and see if I can use one of his Skyline photos for a new future skyline rendering.

can someone do me a favor?
Can someone PM mobuchu on UP and see if I can use one of his Skyline photos for a new future skyline rendering.

Why can't you just sign in over there under a new e-mail? Did he ban your IP or something?

I would send him an email if I had an account over there. I just read, thats it. Safer that way. :)

Have you tried sending him a PM here?

Have at it bud! I have no problem with anyone using my pics just keep the watermark.

If you cant get the pic there, get it here: www.pbase.com/mobuchu

Front page of the CBJ says that the city might do a land-swap that would allow Spirit Square to be demolished and replaced with a condo project (presumably a large tower, given the location). Of course the old Baptist Church would be left alone, but that would still be a pretty big loss in terms of art facilities. I wonder if they would relocate to some other site, or build facilities within the new project to make it mixed use? I didn't have time to read beyond the first page so the article may have addressed that issue.

Either way, it's still just a possibility. Nothing on paper just yet.

diddn't realize you had an account here, great pix by the way,

Front page of the CBJ says that the city might do a land-swap that would allow Spirit Square to be demolished and replaced with a condo project (presumably a large tower, given the location). Of course the old Baptist Church would be left alone, but that would still be a pretty big loss in terms of art facilities. I wonder if they would relocate to some other site, or build facilities within the new project to make it mixed use? I didn't have time to read beyond the first page so the article may have addressed that issue.

Either way, it's still just a possibility. Nothing on paper just yet.

As part of the redevelopment they would incorporate the arts facilities in the newer buildings at SpirirtSquare into the new "high-rise"

damn. it seems as if every plot of land that does not already have a tower on it that is on trade or tryon streets is forming some sort of plan for development. that's super exciting.

i'm all for the the spirit square building if it does not take away arts facilities.

Heard renders of Wachovia's new tower were leaked. Pictures anyone?

I'm unsure of the Sprit Square plan. I realize that the idea of another condo on Tryon St. is exciting, but there's more than enough empty space uptown for that kind of thing without demolishing.

But more importantly, I'm not a big fan of consolidating specific types of function into one huge complex. If all the arts facilities uptown are located in one high-rise, then all the arts activity in the area will be confined to one block. I would rather see theaters scattered across the city, and get the added foot traffic and atmosphere. This, I think, is an urban renewal type of mistake that's just being manifested in a contemporary market.

I agree with you from an urban planning standpoint, but I would suggest that the inclusion of arts into these mixed-use type of projects is a reaction to changing market conditions.

75 years ago, live theatre was a profitable ventures, now that movies are the mainstay, theatres in most cities have to be subsidized. As far as art museums, in most countries, they are federally subsidized, but almost none in the US are.

Has anyone determined whether the renderings of the new Wachovia building posted a few months ago are accurate?

The Observer published an article where a Wachovia spokesperson said they resembled what Wachoiva was planning...the official renderings should come out in the next couple of weeks.

I've heard that alot of times before. :dunno:

I thought official renderings were supposed to have been released last month. What the hell are they waiting on?

I thought official renderings were supposed to have been released last month. What the hell are they waiting on?
Exactly. I thought they also were waiting on the County to officially approve it. Like everybody I'm tired of waiting, but I guess the good thing is we know this project is essentially a done deal.

The Observer published an article where a Wachovia spokesperson said they resembled what Wachoiva was planning...the official renderings should come out in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks. I assume that a height figure has not been determined yet. Is that correct?

I have been emailed by a number of people at SSC, and UP looking forward to more renderings, I was also strangly allerted by a classmate today, whom I know pretty well, that people are expecting another rendering soon, so I'm working on finishing my rendering and she is posting it on UP in the upcoming days, and I'll work on posting it here as well, I just have to figure out the best way to post a rendering. I'm working on a drawing of Mobuchu's picture, and a few other pictures.

work in progress rendering posted on the southeast forums main page, enjoy

According to "revitalize" over at Urban Planet. The new Twelve hotel is up to 40 stories now. He also said that it will have a big base.

More great news from Charlotte. Can't wait to see the rendering!

There will be an announcement tomorrow about an $800M mixed use development that will be built in Iredell County on Lake Normon. It will be adjacent to the Lowes Corporate HQ off of I-77 Exit 33.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/D_IMAGE.10d11cd596d.93.88.fa.d0.6efcdc7.jpg

-12 story Marriott
-Golf Course
-750 Residential Units
-500,000 sq ft of Office and Retail

This will be a big plus for the planned North Commuter Rail line which will have a stop near this development.

There will be an announcement tomorrow about an $800M mixed use development that will be built in Iredell County on Lake Normon. It will be adjacent to the Lowes Corporate HQ off of I-77 Exit 33.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/D_IMAGE.10d11cd596d.93.88.fa.d0.6efcdc7.jpg

-12 story Marriott
-Golf Course
-750 Residential Units
-500,000 sq ft of Office and Retail

This will be a big plus for the planned North Commuter Rail line which will have a stop near this development.
Do you think they'll be oposition to this development like that other highrise that was planned for the Lake area? I hope not, this would be good for that area.

Anything this big is going to have some opposition. The question is, would it be enough for the Mooresville officials to vote it down. I saw the mayor talking about this on tv the other day and he seemed to be pretty favorable, although few details are available till later today.

Nice article in the Observer this morning on the development:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15292041.htm

Yes!!! More retail in Uptown. Sounds like a group of "7th Street Stations".

Posted on Fri, Sep. 08, 2006

Uptown to get new parking, shopping?
2 decks, 30,000 square feet of retail considered
DOUG SMITH

More parking and shopping space might be constructed in a pivotal section of the center city, the Observer has learned.

Real estate sources are talking about a proposed project to build two decks -- one seven levels and the other 10 levels -- on a block bounded by Brevard, Caldwell, Third and Fourth streets.

Pete Verna is developing The Park Condominiums on the block, also occupied by office buildings, Grace AME Zion Church and a parking lot.

Sources say investors have the parking lot under contract with plans to build from 1,000 to 1,200 spaces between the buildings.

Plans circulating among potential parking tenants and retailers show green space on top of the decks and about 30,000 square feet of shops and restaurants wrapping the sides facing Fourth and Brevard streets.

The names of the investors haven't been disclosed. The lot is owned by another investor group, Brevard Street Associates.

"This is the first I've heard of it," said Charlotte Center City Partners President Michael Smith. "But creating retail space on Brevard Street is a very exciting idea."

The city has plans to improve the street, convert it to two-way traffic and create a pedestrian connector between the planned NASCAR Hall of Fame and the Charlotte Bobcats Arena.

Sources say the city's redesign of the street will affect the investor's development plans for the decks, one reason they want to remain low-key for now.

Smith said the proposed parking and retail would be roughly midway between three big uptown attractions: the arena, convention center and hall of fame.

Verna, whose condo tower is under construction atop a four-story parking garage, said, "My understanding is the structures wouldn't block our owners' view of the skyline."

Verna said that 80 of the 21-story tower's 107 units are sold. Buyers are to start moving in by late 2007.

The new decks could benefit residents, office workers, Bobcats fans and visitors at a time when parking in the heart of uptown is becoming harder to find.

A recent survey indicated that about 4,600 spaces -- roughly 10 percent of the center city supply -- will be lost to development over the next 36 months.

Sources say the investors likely would close on the property by the end of this year and start construction next year.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15466802.htm

not in uptown, but in southpark, the final retailers for the Neiman Marcus Wing have been named. BCBG Max Azria and Ralph Lauren have opened, Hermes, Billy Reid, and Juicy Couture will open in October and November, with Hermes being the last to open. Billy Reid is a new retailer who has stores in Dallas, Houston, and Florence, Alabama, their headquarters. Neiman Marcus will open later this month, Crate and Barrel will open sometime near the end of the year, and the Village at SouthPark will open next year. stores should be announced this year and next year for the village and Piedmont Town Center.

Hyatt will leave the area, renovating their hotel into condos. Novare may have plans for a condo tower, but that is not anytime soon.

there are also many condo projects in the Myers Park area just outside of Uptown. They are mostly mid-range (5-8 stories). Rosewood's buildings are almost finished, most likely ending next year. The Carolina's Medical Center has also began extensive construction of the Levine Children's Hospital and a surgery tower.

Crescent City Partners has also taken up land near University City, with hopes to bring a big box retailer and homes along with better connectivity for the UC area. Rumors are that the store, about 380,000 sq ft. will be IKEA, which has been eyeing the area for some time.

Want to know what Charlotte is like? Charlotte is the kind of place where city bureaucrats are talking about how to come up with a strategic plan to add “grittiness” to part of uptown. Imagine Beale Street, they say.

Interestingly, in July I visited Beale Street – the downtown Memphis street filled with blues bars, many in ragged old buildings. I’m pretty sure Beale Street didn’t arise because of a strategic plan for “placemaking.” It came about because it was a part of Memphis nobody else wanted, real estate was cheap and being the Northern End of the Mississippi, as Memphis likes to say of itself, some blues musicians happened to be handy.

At 6 p.m. Thursday Sept. 21 in the Government Center, (probably room 267), there’s to be a public meeting to talk about “placemaking” along Brevard Street between the to-be-built NASCAR Hall of Fame and the already built Bobcats Arena.

The idea is that the street could blossom with bars, cafes, restaurants and other attractions.

As the Jetsons’ dog used to say: Rotsa ruck.

For one thing, Brevard is a one-way street and so wide it looks to have the engineered standards of a freeway. More important, it’s hard to do “gritty” in new buildings, and not just for ambience reasons. New buildings are more expensive. So if you’re a bar, leasing space in a new building is more expensive. Thus you have to charge more for your drinks – hard to do in a competitive environment – or go for the high-end, luxury clientele who can afford to pay for pricey food with higher mark ups. In other words, the glamour gang, not the gritty gang.

The part of uptown that’s already “gritty” – sort of – are the bars along College Street, where – duh! – some old buildings were upfitted into bars a decade or more ago.

Another difficulty is that Brevard Street holds several Large Monoculture Buildings: The windowless hindquarters of the convention center. A bland Southern Bell office building. The modernist-suburban-style United Way Building. The side of the Transportation Center (a.k.a. bus depot).

A lot of the street just goes past surface parking lots – where new buildings presumably would go.

A few buildings have promise, though: Part of the United Way complex includes the building once home to the McCrorey YMCA, which served the black neighborhood that was blasted to oblivion by urban renewal. A couple of old buildings on the south side of East Trade Street survived the arena-led destruction. The Grace AME Zion Church building, whose congregation moved to the ’burbs, has been sold to the Historic Landmarks Commission which will protect it, then renovate and resell it. The historic storefronts at Third and Brevard are almost all that remains of the black, Brooklyn neighborhood.

Here’s my contribution to the goal of “grittiness” on Brevard Street: Move the Coffee Cup restaurant – yep, the historic little soul food restaurant that’s to be demolished by Beazer Homes – to one of those Brevard Street parking lots. Now that would add grittiness.

"A recent survey indicated that about 4,600 spaces -- roughly 10 percent of the center city supply -- will be lost to development over the next 36 months."

that's amazing. 10% is in surface lots. and we're going to lose that. that's quite a lot of development that we're going to be having.

but we will gain that back (and then some) from the parking decks that will be built for the building atop and the others.

then factor in the huge wachovia garage. lol

not in uptown, but in southpark, the final retailers for the Neiman Marcus Wing have been named. BCBG Max Azria and Ralph Lauren have opened, Hermes, Billy Reid, and Juicy Couture will open in October and November, with Hermes being the last to open. Billy Reid is a new retailer who has stores in Dallas, Houston, and Florence, Alabama, their headquarters. Neiman Marcus will open later this month, Crate and Barrel will open sometime near the end of the year, and the Village at SouthPark will open next year. stores should be announced this year and next year for the village and Piedmont Town Center.

I don't understand why Simon wants to wait so long to announce the tenants for the VatS. It can't possibly take until next year to get all of the suitable tenants that room allows signed so the info can be legally released.
As for the Hyatt, I think pulling out of Southpark is the stupidest thing they could possibly do. I appreciate the gain in condos that will result, but from a business standpoint, I don't know why they would choose to leave such an affluent area in a major city... Unless they don't get enough business. I'm sure their being several miles from I-77 doesn't help in that area.
And, I can't believe any one big-box retailer could need 20K shy of 400 large in square footage for the footprint of one store, especially a store like IKEA that specializes in furniture instead of offering a department for everything like Wal-Mart and Target. Of course, if the rumour turns out to be true, I'll be the first one there when the doors open, but that's sort of beside the point. ;)

I'm thinking maybe the Hyatt doesn't get as much business. It's really pretty inconspicuous from the road, so it certainly doesn't have much visibility. But I don't think the Hyatt chain overall is doing so well.

I think this goes here: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/15617230.htm

i honestly think that there should not be any buffer between the two. let the first row of houses serve as a buffer to the other development. if not, sell.

I like the project, but I'm not exactly sure how it will blend in. It will make for a nice gateway effect into SouthEnd from the south; it would make even more of an effect with a complimentary development on the lot right across South Blvd, where the old cleaners used to be. I'm not sure how feasible that would be though, being that side is a bit more industrial in nature and closer to the Remount "projects."

Below is a link to a story by a local News station regarding the new Billy Graham Library opening next year. This should be a nice tourist attraction.

Link: http://www.wsoctv.com/video/9983824/index.html

Billy Graham Library
Projected for completion in 2007, the Billy Graham Library will consist of exhibits, multimedia displays, and films to present the Gospel and the life, ministry, and message of Billy Graham.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/BGLibrary3.jpg
The Billy Graham Library will open in Spring 2007. The library is designed to look like a dairy barn. Rev. Graham grew up on a dairy farm on Park Road in Charlotte.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/BGLibrary4.jpg
One room in the Billy Graham Library will feature a theater-style video presentation of Rev. Graham's old Crusades.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/BGLibrary5.jpg
The inside of the library will feature rooms dedicated to all stages of Rev. Graham's ministry. There will also be a restaurant, where beverages will be served in old replica milk bottles.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/BGLibrary6.jpg
The planned layout for the Billy Graham Library includes a room dedicated to the life of his wife, Ruth Bell Graham. There are also rooms highlighting each decade of Rev. Graham's ministry.

_______________________________

FYI, here’s a picture of the new headquarters building built for the Billy Graham Ministries that moved to Charlotte recently.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/BillyGrahamAssc.jpg

The idea is an excellent one, and is overdue. The design stinks, however. That library looks like something you'd find in Branson. There's got to be a way to evoke a dairy barn without being that baldfaced cheesy.

Charlotte developer Mel Graham has acquired 6,000 acres in Chester County, S.C., for a mixed-use project that could exceed $2 billion in value.

Montrose -- unveiled today in Chester -- would have two golf courses, clubhouses, pools, a fitness center, walking trails and more than 1,000 acres of nature preserves, open space, parks and lakes.

Graham said the development, likely to be completed over about 20 years, also would include nearly 9,000 homes ranging from single-family houses to apartments plus offices and shops.

He described it as "very similar to the successful Ballantyne project (in south Charlotte), only three times larger with more open space."

The property -- believed to be the biggest single-owner tract in the Charlotte metro area -- has about 3 1/2 miles of frontage on both sides of Interstate 77 between Exits 62 and 55.


--more to come tomorrow.

Pardon me while I vomit all over the place. As if Ballantyne has too much open space!

Chester County could use something like this. I would imagine this development would be geared more to retirees than any other group.

i almost doubt it.
just the thing charlotte needs, a new golf course community. wait! we're going to get two out of this one. how excited we all should be!

it just sounds like normal sprawl to me. i'd like to see a commuter rail line go down to rock hill and in some way tie into this development. it is going to happen since traffic on that part of I-77 really isnt that bad (and SC-DOT has done many projects to reduce traffic times on may of the roads down there). just have some dense home component of the development, or at least a stop with a huge park and ride lot so that people can get to/from charlotte without having to use their car. to me, that would make me almost want to move there. i wouldnt have to use my suburban's 5mpg to get to charlotte! ;)

For nearly 40 years, alumni of Charlotte's first high school for African Americans have clamored for its replacement.

They may have found a way to get it, via a seemingly unlikely route: the land swap tied to a proposal to bring the Charlotte Knights uptown.

As part of the deal, Third Ward landowner MassMutual would develop Brooklyn Village, a $135 million urban village over about eight acres in Second Ward. In the midst of the village, the developer proposes, would stand a small magnet high school to be built on or near the site of the old school, demolished in the early 1970s.

The project is a long way from reality. But Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools officials say it's possible with the right backing, perhaps a bank or other private investor interested in a career-themed magnet school uptown.

Spectrum Properties, which is handling the project for MassMutual, would leave space for CMS to develop the new school if it wants. Spectrum suggests it occupy the old Metro School on Second Street, which CMS is using as a center for students with behavioral problems.

That would be the most logical site, since the school system already owns the property, but other sites are possible as well, said Spectrum Chairman Jim Dulin. Spectrum also would convert a nearby gym, the only fully intact remnant of the old school, into a community center for Brooklyn Village.

Spectrum wants to follow as closely as possible the city and county's master plan for Second Ward, Dulin said. The plan calls for a new Second Ward High School as a nod toward a community that no longer exists.

The old school opened in 1923 and graduated its last class in 1969. Soon after, an urban renewal project led to the demolition of the school and much of the surrounding, mostly black neighborhood of Brooklyn.

At the time, alumni and black community leaders say, city and school officials promised another school in the neighborhood. It never happened, and Second Ward came to be dominated by government buildings, hotels and the city's Convention Center.

"It kind of got put on the back burner ...and that's left a bitter taste in the black community," said Vermelle Diamond-Ely, who graduated from the school in 1949. "We're hoping that with this plan, since it's come up again, we can encourage people to build the school. We've been trying to get this done for a long, long time."

Of course, Charlotte-Mecklenburg school board members would have to approve construction, and they won't consider it until they review their long-range plan early next year, said Associate Superintendent Guy Chamberlain.

The board's last long-range plan, adopted in 2005, recommends a high school in Second Ward -- but as the last of eight priorities. Solving overcrowding issues in outlying schools is paramount, Chamberlain said, but "if the right partnership came along, that might be enough to get it to move."

A small, career-oriented campus would make more sense than a full, 2,000-student high school because some nearby center-city high schools are below capacity, he said.

But construction also would depend on the land swap, which the City Council, Mecklenburg County commissioners and school board would have to approve. The swap, among other things, would open up county-owned land in Third Ward for a new Knights baseball stadium.

Second Ward is one of four quarters, or wards, of uptown Charlotte, defined by Trade and Tryon streets.

A new school in Second Ward would help heal some old wounds, and it may be cheaper to build soon if the new development boosts area land costs, said Democratic City Councilman Anthony Foxx.

"I don't think there's as much bitterness as you might think. We've gone beyond that," said Mary Jones, president of the alumni foundation. "I think it's more a thing of, `It's the right thing to do at this time...We're righting a wrong that's been done.' "

SouthPark's emergence as an urban village with more residents to complement shops and offices is ready to take a giant leap.

LNR Property Corp. has just disclosed plans for a proposed development of condos, apartments, stores, restaurants and hotel rooms on 10.5 acres behind two office towers in the 6000 and 6100 blocks of Fairview Road.

Its master plan calls for up to 185,000 square feet of retail, 150 hotel rooms and 685 dwellings, including 14 stories above shops in each of two condo towers and five stories above retail in each of two condo midrises.

South Fair Plaza wouldn't be the first big mixed-use development in the SouthPark area -- Phillips Place, Piedmont Town Center and Morrison are open or under construction.

But it is different.

What makes this project a Next Big Thing is the way its developers are willing to forego their right under the current zoning to build 1 million square feet of additional offices in the city's fourth-largest office market.

Instead, they're seeking a rezoning for a pedestrian-friendly village across Fairview Road from Piedmont Town Center on the front side and next to the Fairmeadows neighborhood in back.

Demand is so strong near the city's premier mall that shop space and condos should fill much faster than office buildings, said Tom Creasy, who is leading LNR's Carolinas expansion.

As part of the project, the developers would demolish a single-story, 65,000-square-foot building that housed Eastern Airlines reservation center from the early 1960s until the late 1980s.

That takes SouthPark redevelopment to a new level, and it's likely something the area around the mall will see more of, said real estate analyst Frank Warren of Warren & Associates.

As property values increase, he said, residential developers are willing to buy land for prices only commercial developers would have paid five years ago.

Looking at the market, Creasy said, mixing residential and retail seemed more viable than office development on the SouthPark acreage.

"As SouthPark has evolved, residential and retail have become the two most valuable product types," he said.

Over the past 36 years, SouthPark has emerged as an office hub of 30,000 to 40,000 workers rivaling uptown's 55,000.

That encourages condo developers' to build in close proximity, because many of those workers are potential home buyers.

And, Creasy notes, the SouthPark hub is convenient to empty nesters ready to leave nearby single-family homes while still remaining in the neighborhood.

One of his first moves was to share LNR's plans with adjoining Fairmeadows. He said he's getting positive feedback from association leaders.

"Tom is moving in the right direction," said Andrew Newsome, president of the Fairmeadows Neighborhood Association. "Personally, I would rather see shops and high-end restaurants than just another office building."

Initially, there was concern about the potential for heavier traffic and cut-through traffic, "but that has pretty much been put to rest," Newsome said.

LNR wants to include pedestrian and bike paths to make it easy for neighbors to enter the development, and Newsome believes that's a good idea.

"There's no excitement about offices," he said. "They would bring more traffic, and people would cut through the neighborhood on the way to work."

In addition, Newsome, a four-year resident of Fairmeadows, believes a mixed-use development would boost property values more than offices would.

LNR's rezoning petition will go before the City Council in a public hearing Dec. 18.

If it's approved, Creasy said the developers probably would start construction by summer 2007 and open the first buildings by summer 2008.

The main entrance would be a landscaped boulevard with wide sidewalks off Fairview Road between proposed street-level retail and two existing towers.

In the center of the project -- Creasy calls it mid-block -- three to four levels of apartments would be built atop ground-level retail with outdoor seating along sidewalks.

The new buildings would wrap existing parking decks to screen them from view.

Just beyond the retail plaza and closer to the back of the site, LNR plans two condo towers and two condo midrises above shops and restaurants.

First phase construction likely would start near the center of the project and include the retail plaza, one condo tower and one condo midrise.

Creasy said it's too early to estimate the cost, but he believes construction will exceed $200 million.

Smallwood, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart and Associates of Atlanta designed South Fair Plaza. No contractor has been selected.

Miami Beach-based LNR, a real estate investment, finance and management firm, acquired the towers at 6000 and 6100 Fairview and the undeveloped acreage behind them in 2004.

In 2005, it sold the office buildings to the California State Teachers Retirement System but kept the vacant acreage it now wants to develop.

Development

Condos

LNR Property Corp. believes South Fair Plaza's condos will appeal especially to empty nesters.But officials say it's too early to set prices.

LNR's Tom Creasy said unit sizes will vary in the towers and midrises, but he expects the average will be about 1,200 square feet.

A planned boutique hotel likely would be part of one of the condo towers so residents could use the concierge service, he said.

Retail

SouthPark mall's upscale stores are a magnet for other retailers.

Even though South Fair Plaza is still in the planning stages, national retailers already are expressing interest, said LNR's Tom Creasy.

The project would be within walking distance of the mall, office buildings and nearby neighborhoods.

Potential tenants range from retail boutiques to national restaurant chains.

http://www.charlotte.com/images/charlotte/charlotte/15675/245721204950.jpg


and click here (http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planning/Rezoning/Rezoning+Petitions/2006+Petitions/2006-166.htm) to see the site plan. there are also perspectives of all angles of the project. gives a good view on how tall the condo towers will be. most of it will seem hidden from Fairview Road, but it might give the illusion of a skyline if they are positioned right.

I'm still not sold on walkability in the SouthPark area. I admire what they're trying to do, but the developers aren't going to make a truly urban environment there unless they absolutely have to... and the city hasn't twisted any arms about it yet. I still don't see anyone in their right mind trying to walk across Fairview or Sharon to get to any of these amenities.

The high school in Second Ward is an interesting idea. CMS desperately needs a center-city high school that isn't plagued with problems, especially in the area where you're going to see a huge amount of high-income population in the next decade or two. Something like a HS version of Piedmont Open would do a lot to restore faith in the system and keep the private schools from snapping up all the talented students. It would also be a huge, huge factor in getting young families back into the center city -- something that has not yet happened much even with all the development.

I'm still not sold on walkability in the SouthPark area. I admire what they're trying to do, but the developers aren't going to make a truly urban environment there unless they absolutely have to... and the city hasn't twisted any arms about it yet. I still don't see anyone in their right mind trying to walk across Fairview or Sharon to get to any of these amenities.

I agree, and tie that in with the fact that there doesn't seem to be a plan (as of yet, from what I've been told) to get a LRT line down Fairview. To me, that would be SP's biggest chance to really urbanize.

Deposits: BofA No. 1, Wachovia No. 3 (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15773146.htm)
not anything new. this just confirms what we already knew, Charlotte is holding it down with the banks.

Mooresville board backs Langtree plan
"The 127-acre proposal includes a 12-story Embassy Suites hotel with a 50,000-square-foot meeting center, another four-story hotel and about 800 condominiums and loft and luxury apartments. Condos would be priced from $600,000 to $2 million."

full article here. (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15772870.htm)

This is an interesting proposal since they have yet to build exit 22. as we all know, exits 33 and 36 are the main exits serving the Morresville area, and are very congested. recently an entire neighborhood was put up for sale becasue owners were tired of traffic. when we sold our lake house back in 2003 it took well over 50 minutes to get from the end of briley school road (where our house was, in the old meckneck) to the exit on I-77. added to the problem is the fact that I-77 is a mess through there and this added development will only cripple the area's traffic.


Homes near Whitewater Center; new business park for Belmont
Read more here. (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15772804.htm)

Matthews lands North Carolina's 1st Super Bi-Lo
[Basically, MORE sprawl to enter Union county in an area near a zillion Harris Tetters]

Read more here. (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15769562.htm)
it also talks about the new 'entrance' into the Siskey YMCA. it is literally on the line to mecklenburg and union county. shocking the growth goin on down there in that side towards the edge of matthews. horrible traffic.

Trader Joe's announces 2nd Charlotte location
Trader Joe's, the California-based owner of specialty foods stores, hasn't opened it's first store in Charlotte yet, but it has announced a second one.
Read more here. (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15780296.htm)


Kannapolis to preview walkable city plan
"The plan - which will incorporate the North Carolina Research Campus and Kannapolis City Schools - addresses the challenges of getting around Kannapolis on foot or using public transportation."
Read more here. (http://www.independenttribune.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CIT/MGArticle/CIT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191175550)

The design for the new Wachovia tower is really being kept top secret. Weren't the renderings posted a few months ago not the final ones?

today's observer stated that Tiffany & Co. will be opening a temporary store uptown at 221 S. Tryon St. It will be next to Emerson Joseph Men's Grooming Lounge.

This is not the first time a retail establishment has placed a temporary store uptown. the last time was when Nordstrom opened a small store during the CIAA tournament. Even though these have been temporary, they have brought activity that is needed for uptown and hopefully will encourage retail stores to locate downtown.

I'm assuming this Tiffany store will be for the holidays. It will be nice when Charlotte will be able to sustain these Uptown stores year-round instead of seasonally.

Maybe I'm being optimistic (and reading between the lines), but this quote:

Is this a test-drive of the uptown retail market for the legendary jewelry company? "We're not testing the market for uptown, but we are looking for ways to bring business to the customer," Nearby said.

implies that there is already a viable customer base for this kind of business Uptown. Perhaps the biggest obstacle is the lack of affordable space for such a store; there are only a couple of older, vacant spaces I can think of that would be likely to work as an upscale botique (the older buildings on W. Trade St. would work nicely).

In my most recent trip to Charlotte, I noticed many parking lots behind Tryon or Trade Street on which really nice outdoor shopping arcades could be built with fountains, sculptures and green space mixed in.

I'd like to see the South Park mall closed. It could be razed and redeveloped as a new country club community like Piper Glen, and in the process, retail could thrive downtown. If Charlotte could abandon a newish suburban basketball stadium and build a new one downtown, why not abandon a suburban shopping mall?

I'd like to see the South Park mall closed.

BLASPHEMY!

Seriously, though, the only way I would support closing Southpark would be if its uptown replacement had every upscale store in SP now, and to get all of the luxury chains to agree to relocate all at once into the same facility would be nothing short of a miracle, especially if it was out of a quasi-urban neighborhood into an urban environment. Some retailers either don't operate in urban neighborhoods, or would need more persuasion or more population in the immediate area than Charlotte has in uptown. Besides, Uptown in coming into its own as it is, and to make it the site of the new Southpark would only cause more traffic problems, especially since you would be getting almost every customer that currently shops at Nordies or Neimans Charlotte. Uptown in white-collar-stuffy as it is... To add every independently-wealthy, fashion-conscious individual from Lake Norman to Lake Wylie and all parts inbetween... I shudder to think of how they would combine. You could feel the elitistism in the air.

Are you for real? Why not raze everything outside of downtown Charlotte and rebuild it downtown? We could just name the area encompassing a 30 mile radius from Trade/Tryon the "uptown" too.

I have one good reason why - Ummm, what was that reason again, oh yea BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO OWN SOUTHPARK MIGHT NOT WANT TO.

You people are nuts.



I'd like to see the South Park mall closed. It could be razed and redeveloped as a new country club community like Piper Glen, and in the process, retail could thrive downtown. If Charlotte could abandon a newish suburban basketball stadium and build a new one downtown, why not abandon a suburban shopping mall?

Construction vets dig challenges of bank tower
Charlotte Business Journal - October 13, 2006
by Bea Quirk


Batson-Cook Co.'s Randall Thompson and Curt Rigney are bringing a lot more than construction expertise to the job of building the 46-story, 1.4 million-square-foot Wachovia Corp. office tower that will be surrounded by a cultural campus featuring a multidisciplinary arts center, two art museums and a theater.

They are also bringing passion.


"I live for challenges like this -- as soon as I heard about it, I wanted to be at the table," says Rigney, 32, project manager. "To be doing something like this at my age is thrilling."

Thompson, 57, who is serving as project executive, has notched plenty of experience during 33 years in construction, but he's enthusiastic, too. "This is more challenging than anything I have ever been associated with," he says. "It's great to be part of such a huge project."

Rigney likens the project to "building a city within a city." While the site at Stonewall and South Tryon streets will also include a condo tower and a retail component along with the arts facilities, Batson-Cook is responsible for building the office tower, a 2,500-space underground parking deck and a tunnel under Tryon Street, a project valued at up to $300 million. Thompson doesn't expect the company to bid for the other buildings. (Wachovia is the developer of the residential and retail offerings; the arts facilities are being funded by local government and private sources.)

Rigney will move to Charlotte with his family later this year, while Thompson will continue to spend two to three days a week here until the project is completed, which is expected in June 2009. Both are based in Atlanta. They recently discussed the Wachovia project with the Charlotte Business Journal. Here are excerpts from that conversation:

What's the status of the construction?

Rigney: We started excavating the site in January, and it won't be completed until next April. The hole will be 80-feet deep (eight levels below grade), big enough to hold a six-story building. We take 300 truckloads of rock and dirt off site every day. The tower is set to open in June 2009.

Thompson: The building is still being designed, but with such a big excavation, we've got time.

What about the other buildings on the site? And will construction be further complicated by construction of the NASCAR Hall of Fame a few blocks away?

Rigney: At some point, the arts buildings will start going up while we are still building the tower -- it will be one busy site. We'll be responsible for overall site management.

Thompson: I'm sure no matter how careful everyone is, we'll get some deliveries for the hall of fame and they'll get some of ours.

What challenges are you anticipating?

Thompson: The staging area, getting materials in and out. We'll be right there on the street, and protecting the public will be important. First Street will be closed, as well as part of Tryon.

The tower cranes we use will be some of the largest manufactured. We're putting 10 pounds in a five-pound bag, and that means we'll be utilizing everything to the limit, including construction techniques. But we're used to dealing with things like this.

Rigney: It's what I like -- the challenge of problem-solving and implementing new ideas.


What about rising construction costs?

Thompson: Commercial construction costs have gone up 25% in the last two to three years, and a lot is being done, such as going to manufacturers to see what they can do to keep prices down. We're doing our homework.

Is labor availability a problem?

Thompson: We self-perform some work, but we subcontract most of it. Given the sheer size of the project and with so many other projects going on, the availability of subs is limited. But there is a good base of them.

Will the tower have any green components?

Rigney: At Wachovia's request, we are going after LEED certification. We will recycle materials and have an air-quality management system on-site.

Thompson: We will get points toward certification because it is a brownfield site. There are buried fuel tanks and other contaminants, and the soil is being tested and disposed of. And the roof will be green, with dirt and plants and landscaping.

There's been criticism about proposed plans to build pedestrian tunnels to the campus -- that tunnels take foot traffic off the streets. What's the status of those?
Thompson: Right now, we are just building the tunnel and loading dock for vehicular traffic.

How well do you know Charlotte and Wachovia?


Thompson: I built 3 Wachovia Center, led the recent renovation of Wachovia Main and have built a number of projects for Childress Klein.

I've never lived in Charlotte, but have spent a lot of time here over the last 20 years.

Rigney: This is my first project with the bank and in Charlotte.

What's it like working here compared with other cities?

Thompson: Charlotte is not the easiest place to get permitting, but it's organized. If you learn the system and understand the rules, you can work it out. Ethics-wise, it's a good place to work.

How does Charlotte compare with Atlanta?

Rigney: Atlanta is behind the curve in revitalizing its downtown, while Charlotte is ahead of the curve. There's a lot more activity on the streets of uptown Charlotte. And in Atlanta, you have to drive to everything.

Thompson: Charlotte is a great city, and the vitality of its downtown compared with Atlanta's is the difference between night and day. And Charlotte doesn't have the negatives of Atlanta -- it's safer, the traffic isn't as bad and the government is managing growth.

Bea Quirk is a Charlotte-based free-lance writer who can be reached at beawrites@aol.com.

Thanks, I wanted to read that

Why did that article make it seem like the only centers of activity Charlotte and Atlanta have are downtown? Atlanta has two other major centers of employment that are at least somewhat urban (Midtown and Buckhead), while Charlotte's only other one isn't nearly as large as either Midtown or Buckhead.

Are you for real? Why not raze everything outside of downtown Charlotte and rebuild it downtown? We could just name the area encompassing a 30 mile radius from Trade/Tryon the "uptown" too.

I have one good reason why - Ummm, what was that reason again, oh yea BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO OWN SOUTHPARK MIGHT NOT WANT TO.

You people are nuts.

The question, my friend, is whether you're for real?

Charlotte has the potential to be a nice city. However, it's pathetic that its retail scene is entirely confined to a suburban shopping mall. Two sububs of NYC, White Plains and Stamford, CT, have malls similar to South Park, but at least they're located in each city's downtown area. In fact, White Plains and Stamford have vastly more exciting street life on the weekends than Charlotte does, AND THEY'RE SUBURBAN CITIES!!

When a decision was made to build a Ritz Carlton in Charlotte, I recall reading a statement from a Charlotte official that the city is now on the map because it has a Ritz. A 40 story Ritz Carlton is now under construction in White Plains and a Trump Tower was recently completed there, and yet no White Plains officials made such statements. Perhaps Charlotte can learn from NY's suburbs and BUILD RETAIL DOWNTOWN. (I note that you like ALLCAPS and am simply emulating your style.)

I think that outside of the biggest US cities (NY, Boston, DC, Philly, Chicago and SF), Charlotte is one of the nicer American cities. I'd live there over Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Orlando, Phoenix, etc. any day. Nevertheless, it needs downtown street life, and retail helps to create that. Suburban malls do not.

there is a difference in those cities than in the charlotte market.

as of now, south park mall is surrounded by tons of rich people. myers park to the north, the south park area around them, the providence area to the southeast, the ballantyne area to the south, and then there are the rich people from south carolina and lake norman that come to shop at the mall. it is central to the rich people. with that said, it is not central to the people of the charlotte region like uptown is. that's because we all know people that live in a 80k house are not going to go shopping at a mall where it costs well over 100 bucks to buy a pair of jeans, that's just not their cup of tea. so there's no point to going in uptown at this point.

as for street life, we're getting it in uptown. even if south park's stores located to uptown, the street life would be people DRIVING into the area, and then we'd just have bad traffic like the south park mall area (by bad traffic i mean people driving 10 to 20 miles to a parking deck, getting what they want from abercrombie and then getting the hell out.

I note that people from Charlotte get excited over retail and new stores in South Park. However, a city's retail should be downtown -- not in a suburban mall. Greenwich, CT, another NY suburb (albeit one of the richest suburbs in the world) has WAY better retail in its downtown than Charlotte does, and it's a suburb.

I would like to see a retail scene in the city and some nice cinemas and restaurants. Charlotte's social life seems to be isolated in the suburbs (just like Atlanta's for that matter with all of its malls in suburban Buckhead). That should change.

LLoydGeorge, you say it 'should' be in a downtown. that assumes that a city has only one core. in the suburbs you speak of and how you speak of them, i'd assume that they are suburbs with little retail (service type such as a grocery/cvs) and then most of the retail downtown. thta's the core city model.

in ALL southern cities you have multiple cores to which people work, live, and shop. this is due to these cities being developed around the car. that's the simple explantion as to why it will not change. south park has become its own sub-core to the city of charlotte and to the entire region.

Precisely. There is no city that has ALL of its retail in the CBD, and I don't think it should be that way either since everyone doesn't (nor should they) live in the CBD. Granted, the retail distribution isn't even in Charlotte, but it's not too far from the Southern standard. As more residents call Uptown home, more retail will follow.

LLoydGeorge, you say it 'should' be in a downtown. that assumes that a city has only one core. in the suburbs you speak of and how you speak of them, i'd assume that they are suburbs with little retail (service type such as a grocery/cvs) and then most of the retail downtown. thta's the core city model.

in ALL southern cities you have multiple cores to which people work, live, and shop. this is due to these cities being developed around the car. that's the simple explantion as to why it will not change. south park has become its own sub-core to the city of charlotte and to the entire region.


I'm not arguing with you. I like Charlotte a lot and would like to see it get better. Charlotte doesn't have any real retail in its downtown, and Charlotte has only one downtown. Other medium-sized US cities like Seattle and Minneapolis have a downtown retail strip with nice stores. I'd like to see the same in Charlotte.

i'm not going to argue with you on that either. hell, if we could move south park to uptown, i'd be the first one to sign my name in support. i was just giving reasons why it wouldnt work. at this point, i think the city (AND STATE) need to embrace South Park as the 2nd largest area outside of uptown charlotte. of course this would mean some transit line, but that wont happen for a good 20 years with the current plan.

i think the city (AND STATE) need to embrace South Park as the 2nd largest area outside of uptown charlotte.

In terms of....?

transit. as it stands now there is only bus that goes to and from south park. i believe that there should be some sort of rail going into south park. i've long thought that a street car down selwyn (although a VERY rich area) or along colony that connects up to the major employment centers around the mall and to the mall would be great. this would have to circle back to the SLRT line though.

.... of course this would mean some transit line, but that wont happen for a good 20 years with the current plan.

That's another thing that Charlotte should have. It would be nice if there was a light rail that went from the Piper Glen area and other areas to downtown.

If we put everything in uptown that everyone wants on SSC, Charlotte would
Tear down half of uptown to put it. Uptown Charlotte is not a big area compare to other cities. South End is trying to become known as part of uptown.

Piper Glen? That's WAY too far south to extend any light rail. that would go through some of the most sprawl (and gated communities/rich yuppies) in the entire metro.

transit. as it stands now there is only bus that goes to and from south park. i believe that there should be some sort of rail going into south park. i've long thought that a street car down selwyn (although a VERY rich area) or along colony that connects up to the major employment centers around the mall and to the mall would be great. this would have to circle back to the SLRT line though.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. You said that SouthPark is the 2nd largest area in NC outside of Charlotte. I was wondering if that was in terms of retail, office space, residents, etc.

Piper Glen? That's WAY too far south to extend any light rail. that would go through some of the most sprawl (and gated communities/rich yuppies) in the entire metro.

Isn't Piper Glen about 12 miles from uptown?

yes, piper glen is about 12 miles from uptown. this corridor along rea road south of south park is not at all able to support transit. there are very few buildings that front the road (minus the old rea road and sections where they carved colony through).

i believe it is the 2nd largest employment center in a city that is not downtown. i'm not sure if it is still holding that title. i believe the SW area of charlote has more sprawly office development now, so it may have taken over.

yes, piper glen is about 12 miles from uptown. this corridor along rea road south of south park is not at all able to support transit. there are very few buildings that front the road (minus the old rea road and sections where they carved colony through).

i believe it is the 2nd largest employment center in a city that is not downtown. i'm not sure if it is still holding that title. i believe the SW area of charlote has more sprawly office development now, so it may have taken over.

I think that there should be several transit lines running as spokes into the center of Charlotte.

Here's a picture of Charlotte I took from a plane last week... thought you'd want to have it for your thread.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/684/charlottenf1.jpg

In terms of....?

southpark has more class A commercial space than any downtown in NC, other than charlottes own. it has about 1 million more sq. footage than Raleigh, I believe that was what was being referred to. This is a for sure statement.

As for employment, I'm not so sure about that statement, I hadn't heard that before, I would think that University City would have more employment than southpark......

Here's a picture of Charlotte I took from a plane last week... thought you'd want to have it for your thread.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/684/charlottenf1.jpg

Thank you mark for this pic, I looked at it for a lil bit, and all I could see was where the vue is going, and where the new wachovia is going. I can't wait, the park is going to help with density as well from this angle, as well as the nascar tower, the wachovia condo tower, there'll be some density going down south blvd that will be visible, god I'm so excited. I just wish 516 Morehead or whatever it was called was still happening, because a nice 35 story building in midtown would have been nice.

We really need to build out towards elizabeth, and everything, Courtside brought us a lil bit closer, as did the courthouse, the pencil tower and the park will help as well.

New buildings viewable from this angle.
Vue
Trademark (almost topped out)
New Wachovia building
the Park
Duke Power Redevelopement
top of two ten trade.
the other novare church street building
Nascar Tower
2nd ward redevelopment (add sooooo much density to downtown)
a baseball park??

I might just haveta do a lil mock-up of what it might look like, may I use this pic MilwaukeeMark. And thank you for showing all of us this pic.

Is there going to be a NASCAR tower? Is this a different project that the NASCAR museum? Is it NASCAR's HQ?

The Biz Journal says that NASCAR has until Nov. 6 to make the decision about the building...30 stories? 300,000 square feet. Part of the Hall of Fame complex.

The Biz Journal says that NASCAR has until Nov. 6 to make the decision about the building...30 stories? 300,000 square feet. Part of the Hall of Fame complex.

That's interesting. Will it be NASCAR'S HQ? On what street/address will the tower be located?

Also, is NASCAR currently based in Charlotte? I know nothing about NASCAR, as I am from NYC.

this would not be their HQ, simply free press since i believe there will be a NASCAR sign at the top of the building. it would simply give them office space for employees and give them a rather large charlotte presence.

and they have a LOW lease rate on the land (like a dollar a year or something stupid like that) and could make money by subleasing the space out.

this would not be their HQ, simply free press since i believe there will be a NASCAR sign at the top of the building. it would simply give them office space for employees and give them a rather large charlotte presence.

and they have a LOW lease rate on the land (like a dollar a year or something stupid like that) and could make money by subleasing the space out.

What is Charlotte's vacancy rate in Uptown? Is there a sufficient demand for office space such that a tower would be built speculatively?

southpark has more class A commercial space than any downtown in NC, other than charlottes own. it has about 1 million more sq. footage than Raleigh, I believe that was what was being referred to. This is a for sure statement..


that's what i should've said.

MilwaukeeMark, that photo is AMAZING, thanks for posting it!

What is Charlotte's vacancy rate in Uptown? Is there a sufficient demand for office space such that a tower would be built speculatively?

charlotte has one of the the lowest vacancy rates in the country for a CBD somewhere between 5 and 6 percent, so yes, there is suffiecient demand, I mean we are building a 1.4 million square foot tower, in the wachovia first street complex, and its pretty much already filled, wachovia is busting at the seams, with around 32k employees in charlotte, and by the time this building is built it should be around 35-40k, being that the building is supposed to bring a whole bunch of high paying jobs to the market.

As for the nascar tower, it will hold a lot of the nascar media related entities, and other things of that nature. And hell even if it doesn't lease up completely, pretty much no matter what, nascar will make a couple bux profitk, $1 lease, not too shabby

Thanks for the info. Is there a rendering for the NASCAR tower? I saw a rendering for the museum which looked nice, and a mediocre box was appended to it. Since Charlotte has pretty nice architecture, I assumed that this was only a massing study type rendering.

there is a NASCAR HOF thread for charlotte around here somewhere. dig that up.

The Biz Journal says that NASCAR has until Nov. 6 to make the decision about the building...30 stories? 300,000 square feet. Part of the Hall of Fame complex.

I've never seen the number 30, but the building itself has been compared in size to the old IJL building (don't recall its tryon street name address at this momement, you know the shorter of the BofA buildings, I personally call it Avenues Mentor and big brother). I actually remember hearing a number of around 16 stories, and 300k sq feet. Speaking that the smallest DT building 30 or more stories, with the least amount of leasable SQ ft, is the interstate tower I think, and i think it is around 500k, and IJL is around 600k.

On a side not, there has been a talk of a nascar move to charlotte in the near future, but it might just be speculation, as well as the museum really has to test the waters, which are pretty stagnant as far as charlotte visitors go, but hopefully this will turn out to be a redneck georgia aquarium (just not too redneck for the love of god!).

Regarding the retail issue (and not trying to re-start the argument), I would point out that there is simply not any physical space for full-sized department stores Uptown right now. Pretty much all space fronting the street is occupied, and what little is available would not suit that kind of tenant.

This is one of the upsides and downsides of the urban renewal that wiped out all the old three-story buildings. On one hand, there is virtually no empty property Uptown at street level; there are also very very few "undesirable" structures, which can be even worse than surface lots. On the other hand, there is virtually no space for street-level retail and no cheap real estate of any kind.

In a slightly more convenient world, the renewal folks would've wiped out the crappy old warehouses but left behind the restorable Victorian homes that surrounded the CBD. That way we could convert them into Dilworth-style boutiques that would serve a broader market than large department stores (which are, by the way, becoming extinct even in much larger cities than Charlotte).

Is this the proposed tower or just a massing model? I hope the latter. Charlotte has great modern architecture, but this is crap.

http://www.belongshere.com/images/tower.jpg

old IJL is now 400 North Tryon.

i do believe that is the rendering for the tower. i dont think it is that bad, actually matches the HOF...not too well, but it matches.

http://www.charlotte.com/multimedia/charlotte/KRT_packages/archive/business/1025smithcol.jpg

that photo was placed in the observer today. cool photo, if you take out the obvious thinks that do not fit, that gives you a rather cool perspective of how that side of town will look.

the article was full of information that i find hard to believe when it comes to growth...at least i hope they're wrong.

article (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15839718.htm)

lotsa things missing :-(.
Trademark
4+ novare condos 3 of which would block the old international style wachovia building.
I think berkman will be visible
the spectrum building
oh another novare building, twelve's top would be visible, notice how I said 4 + above.

So first the bad news...

My general problems with this rendering:

First of all: I never liked this angle of downtown. I always thought it was the least flattering, noteably because 3rd ward is the most lacking of all the wards (even 2nd) in everything, its so dead and full of surface lots, that I have nightmares at night about the void that it is.

Second of all: Let us not forget that the picture isn't shown such that the citidan, the park, avenue, the vue, the arena pencil tower, nascar tower and hall of fame, the tower (haha), or many other projects, would even be viewable.

Third of all: the general tendency of thinking of downtown as a tightly compacted core of density. I want a tower on all four corners of downtown, before i want another one on tryon, or 1 block from tryon. THIS IDEA MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM, can we not embrace that everything within 277 is included in the CBD, not just Trade and tryon!!!!!!

4th of all: BofA CC will never be the what forth tallest building in downtown, at least I hope not,

And now the good news...
The things I liked:

First of all: Wachovia rendering WOW WOW WOW WOW, SEXY SEXY SEXY. This is exactly how I imagined only its actually on my computer screen, which makes it more sexy. I think either the illustrator frequents this site, or others of its kind, or the city gave them renderings to look at. I think its the second of the two, because damn thats too beautiful. Plus the paper said it was a speculation, and I believe the opposite of the paper, because they still want to be the first to release the wachovia renderings.

Second of all: 210trade rendering, though not current enough, aka it is lacking things from 210s website rendering. Sound negative huh, nah not so much, I like it because it fills a void, will make this horrible angle better.

Third of all: the process of closing this bastardization of downtown charlotte.

Fourth of all: My person favourite was the building similar to modis down the street from wachovia would be fun, hopefully someone else picked that up.

LLoydGeorge: the building on the very right that is blue with the angled top, thats the new LEED Certified Wachovia building.

Reaction:
Overall I believe this rendering was a waste of money and time, and i wish it actually showed something worthwhile, like minus the crap futuristic buildings, that I would be ashamed of (they look like they are about to blast off), and a lil more of the realistic, you know the shit thats proposed or being built.

Personally, I would have rather seen a charlotte in 2010, than a charlotte never. Just my opinion, but I'm probably in the majority.

oh yea, one more good thing, the gehry stile twisted building in the foreground, thats needed, for sure. I will pay for the building if i haveta, just to get it here!

rickydavisfan21, you've got some strong opinions there. ;)

personally, i am going to HATE the wachovia tower if it resembles anything like that. can someone say taller batman building (bell south) from Nashville? AND they are going to be getting the tallest in the south while we just copy a higher building of theirs? i dont really care about the density issue on tryon street, i'd love to see more density rather than buildings put on the edge of uptown with LARGE setbacks like are those i'd suspect to be probable.

rickydavisfan21, you've got some strong opinions there. ;)

personally, i am going to HATE the wachovia tower if it resembles anything like that. can someone say taller batman building (bell south) from Nashville? AND they are going to be getting the tallest in the south while we just copy a higher building of theirs? i dont really care about the density issue on tryon street, i'd love to see more density rather than buildings put on the edge of uptown with LARGE setbacks like are those i'd suspect to be probable.

I would just like a more dense CBD, I don't like how the view from parts of 277 is only 3 buildings wide. I think there is enough differences between batman building and wachovia building. Wachovia has a glass curtain, and will look much better than batman, which is hideous.

I don't think the BellSouth tower in Nashville is "hideous," but I do think there is definitely a distinction between it and the new Wachovia tower.

rickydavisfan21, you've got some strong opinions there. ;)

personally, i am going to HATE the wachovia tower if it resembles anything like that. can someone say taller batman building (bell south) from Nashville? AND they are going to be getting the tallest in the south while we just copy a higher building of theirs? i dont really care about the density issue on tryon street, i'd love to see more density rather than buildings put on the edge of uptown with LARGE setbacks like are those i'd suspect to be probable.

And to comment on this Signature is a pipedream, it won't be the tallest in the south, and I will bet my life savings on that. They are having lots of problems selling the idea. And honestly how does this http://www.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles11416.jpg
look anything like the wachovia tower, which is featured in this pic, http://www.charlotte.com/multimedia/charlotte/KRT_packages/archive/business/1025smithcol.jpg. The resemblance is simply trivial, I don't know if you didn't sit there and compare the two but the wachovia building is much better in comparison. The glass curtain, the angle, everything. The huge unneccessary spires are missing, it is a huge step beyond the batman building, and thats my opinion.

if it looks like the nashville tower or not....i think it is a AN UGLY building if it takes that rendering. but i doubt it will, or hope not.

Interesting futuristic look.

Ricky, what have you heard on Signature? Just wondering since I haven't heard nay news on it in about a month.

Flying cars?

That would be like 200 years from now. Thats all they think Charlotte's skyline has grown? I would expect the skyline to be almost like Chicago's by then.

Wonder what the sprawl is like.........:lol:

What a strange, strange idea for a promotional rendering. It's very hard to take these people seriously when they pay for something like that.

If they had left the flying buses out, it would be realistic looking. :nuts:

come on. we all know CATS has the budget for flying buses!!

pretty much - bank of america bought the two newest buildings that front both I-485 and US-521 and are going to use them for office space.

they have the 'my work' program which allows people to work from their home or only commute there and do office meetings and such in uptown.

pretty much ADDS SPRAWL to the charlotte metro. thanks, bofa.

source (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15940122.htm)

A few financing points aside, NASCAR says it's ready to move forward with the construction of a 19-story office tower to occupy one corner of its planned NASCAR Hall of Fame property.

The tower plans now surpass what the sport had pitched earlier this year, with 400,000 rentable square feet instead of 300,000 in a glass-and-concrete tower at Stonewall and Caldwell streets. The building also would hold a new, 40,000-square-foot ballroom for the adjacent Charlotte Convention Center.

But NASCAR, which secured an option to build the tower on city land this spring, asked for its third extension of the option, which originally was supposed to expire in September. NASCAR and city officials said they need another 15 to 30 days to settle unresolved issues:

• Deciding how much NASCAR's tower developer, Lauth Property Group of Charlotte, will pay to help construct an 830- to 840-space parking deck and truck dock.

The city has agreed to pay between $6 million and $7 million for the first 400 parking spaces and pay $4 million toward the rest of the spaces, with Lauth covering the rest of the cost. But changes in the tower design keep altering the final parking deck cost of roughly $19 million, making it hard to nail down that part of the agreement, said Assistant City Manager Ron Kimble.

• The amount of contingency funds for construction.

• How much the city would realize from any future sale or refinancing of the tower.

• What the city's responsibility would be to Lauth "in the very unlikely event," as a city document put it Monday, that the hall of fame is not built.

"We're close" to an agreement on the lease option, Kimble said, "but we're not there yet."

The City Council voted Monday to extend the option to Dec. 12, although Kimble said NASCAR probably will exercise the option Nov. 28.

NASCAR is committed to seeing the tower portion through, said Mark Dyer, NASCAR's vice president of licensing. Dyer apologized to council members for the delays and said he has already spoken to several potential tower tenants. "The impact, I think, will be significant," he said.

Before the vote, council members viewed an updated version of the plans for the $154.5 million hall of fame from the two New York firms working on them: architects Pei Cobb Freed & Partners and designers Ralph Appelbaum Associates.

The hall is scheduled to open in the fall of 2009.

The architects revealed their most detailed renderings yet of the building and its interior, which will try to reflect fast motion through curving, sloped surfaces, said Yvonne Szeto, the primary architect.

One of the main features inside would be a ramp near the entrance that starts level and gradually banks to 36 degrees, the maximum allowed in NASCAR, as visitors take in a series of exhibits, Szeto said. An outdoor plaza would allow for special outdoor events, she said.

Farther inside, Appelbaum Associates tentatively plans such features as a theater for video exhibits and live race broadcasts; a long, multimedia display on NASCAR history; a "Hall of Champions" on the sport's most famous figures; and an interactive display with racing simulator.

That's just a start, said Director Ralph Appelbaum. "I don't want you to think we have fixed ideas," he told council members. "What we're doing is collecting great ideas."




pretty much we're paying for NASCAR to build their own town. i'd be willing to bet they dont have to occupy the tower, they just build it. we're paying for them to have office space. fucking waste.

bank of america can do it, so they can. they've got TONS of money. why not just ask for sponsors to litter the outside of the building with their stupid logos?

A few financing points aside, NASCAR says it's ready to move forward with the construction of a 19-story office tower to occupy one corner of its planned NASCAR Hall of Fame property.
[B]
The tower plans now surpass what the sport had pitched earlier this year, with 400,000 rentable square feet instead of 300,000 in a glass-and-concrete tower at Stonewall and Caldwell streets.....

That's good news, but I hope that there will be a new design. The original rendering was terrible.

I would certainly expect to see new renderings sometime soon. The "current" design would be a total waste next to the Pei project.

I would certainly expect to see new renderings sometime soon. The "current" design would be a total waste next to the Pei project.

Did Pei design the Nascar museum? While the museum looks nice, the office tower looks horrible.

yes, pei did design the HOF.

Well pei himself is retired and unfortunately did not design the HOF, it was Yvonne Szeto who is a architect associated with Pei Cobb. Personally after seeing the new HOF design, I actually unfortunately think the design of the tower outshines the HOF. In the 3D model that was shown there was what looked to be a strong diagonal in the glass curtains that form two opposite L shapes, on either sides of the building. The building is more modern than anything we currently have downtown, except maybe, imaginon, if you want to call that modern, and the residence on tryon. Characteristically, as is shown with the Handcock Center in MA, a Pei skyscraper is far less intriguing than a Pei lowrise. Unfortunately coupled with the Charlotte's conservative ideas of design, and charlotte's love of virtually blank walls (look at me sounding like metro), this design has been dumbed down and held back well short of its potential. I am no longer looking forward to seeing 100% of this project, only about 33%. I'm pretty sure one of the purposes of more modernistic forms of design is to design in the 360, to make each vantage point as memorable and interesting as the last, and this is falling way short. The original idea had a lot going for it, but the rendering shown in the paper, and the model at the meeting are terrible, sigh, I hope the wachovia arts complex doesn't get dumbed down by conservativism and ignorance as well. We might as well have had Pei do the facade, and someone like colonial properties (people responsible for things the morrocroft style office buildings) do the other parts, such a disapointment.

PS. don't get me started on the dbl decker Skybridge, UGH. I could have sworn charlotte was trying to turn brevard into a peddivillage, GOOD F**KING LUCK!
$.02

There’s an updated color picture of the Hall of Fame at this link below (I would post it, but its real small). It appears the “flare” of the roof has been “toned down” a bit.

http://www.scenedaily.com/stories/2006/11/06/scene_daily594.html

http://cll.scenedaily.com/story_image/61894-281-135.jpg

i posted it. ;)

the office tower really doesnt seem that bad. if only the city wasn't paying them to build it. that's the stupid part.

The office tower is very "Florida" to me. It would do well next to Courtside... if both were located on the beach. They just don't fit the Charlotte aesthetic.

^^ i like that, actually. our skyline today has that very cool ability to mesh. it actually blends north/south & east/west very well. i think as our skyline grows we need to have more of a variety of building styles that expand the overall effect the skyline makes.

^^ i like that, actually. our skyline today has that very cool ability to mesh. it actually blends north/south & east/west very well. i think as our skyline grows we need to have more of a variety of building styles that expand the overall effect the skyline makes.

I agree 100%, Variety is essential, and wonderful. with so many towers going up that go against the charlotte norm, charlotte is finally becoming more than a group of a couple ugly buildings (not my quote, but don't remember who's, some famous architect). Just think of the colors. Avenue (blue glass), Vue (striking blue glass), 210trade (rumored green glass), Wachovia (blue glass). I am very anti beige. As long as its not beige I don't care, VARIETY VARIETY VARIETY, anything but a glorified business park.

Looks like BOA strikes again with a 32 story tower beside the Ritz Carlton.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15970019.htm

CONGRATS to the Queen City

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/255042064810.jpg

Posted on Thu, Nov. 09, 2006

BofA announces 32-story uptown office tower
Building joining redesigned 17-floor Ritz-Carlton
RICK ROTHACKER
rrothacker@charlotteobserver.com

Rendering courtesy of Bank of AmericaBank of America Corp. is adding a 32-story office tower to its Ritz-Carlton hotel project in uptown. A news conference is scheduled for noon today at Founders Hall.

The tower will join a redesigned 17-floor Ritz at property the Charlotte bank owns across College Street from its uptown headquarters, spokesman Terry Francisco said. The hotel will still have 150 rooms.

The Ritz will now open a year later in 2009. The office tower is scheduled to debut in 2010.

The bank will occupy 25 percent of the tower with about 1,200 employees, some new hires and some from the existing workforce. The bank says it has 14,000 employees in uptown and 15,000 in the greater Charlotte area.

The bank said the other tower occupants are yet to be determined. Centex will be the general contractor and Perkins & Will is the architect.

Bank of America announced the Ritz project last summer, but last month work stalled on the site. Construction trailers were recently removed.

The Observer reported today that speculation was swirling that the project could be expanded.

Carolinas Real Data says the uptown office vacancy rate shrunk to 4.7 percent in the third quarter from 6.6 percent a year ago. Large blocks of space are in tight supply, prompting talk that the time might be right for more office development in the urban core.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15970019.htm

I really like the NASCAR tower....it is very European looking to me, and I agree that a vareity of buildings are necessary to make a skyline look mature. As to the HOF....ehhh...it's interesting, but not remarkable.

I hope the 32-story BOA tower rendering is just a massing. I also hope it has some flair to it.

Some cities find it hard to get one tower up over 20 stories, yet they come as afterthoughts in Charlotte.

The Charlotte skyline is going to be quite a sight in 2010. And who knows how many proposals or projects under construction there will be then?