people always seem to get worried about whether there are too many apartments in the city centre, not enough offices....what about the shops.....BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE NOT THINK WE'RE GOING ABIT OTT ON THE SUPERMARKETS????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/bhxsupmar.jpg

I don't think there are too many........there are enough people to support them I reckon.Aren't there any in the noth west of that map?

but to me the most irritating thing about this is that the likes of tesco appear to be taking up the most prime locations ever....caxton gate, southside, mailbox........and maybe city park gate and birmingham pinicle.....they are no competition for companies wanting to move in....take caxton gate, a 2 storey tesco in the heart of the city centre!!!! just think what we could have got instead?!?!?1

Woody, if you push your map to include JQ word is there is to be a Tesco Distress by the clock.

We defo need an asda to balance it out! he he

I hate Tesco and their Express shops. They're getting too big for their boots and pushing smaller reatailers out of business.

but to me the most irritating thing about this is that the likes of tesco appear to be taking up the most prime locations ever....caxton gate, southside, mailbox........and maybe city park gate and birmingham pinicle.....they are no competition for companies wanting to move in....take caxton gate, a 2 storey tesco in the heart of the city centre!!!! just think what we could have got instead?!?!?1

the opposite is happening in Cov. The city centre supermarkets have nearly all closed and now they are throwing up loads of apartment blocks.

Again, people who live in these apartments will end up driving out of the centre to work and also to do their food shopping.

the opposite is happening in Cov. The city centre supermarkets have nearly all closed and now they are throwing up loads of apartment blocks.

Again, people who live in these apartments will end up driving out of the centre to work and also to do their food shopping.

Surely this will end up coming full-circle. Early 90s Brum centre, there were pretty much no supermarkets. Then the flats started going up and now look at the situation.

The same is bound to happen in Cov.

I think we sometimes forget just how *laughable* the concept of living in the centre of ANY provincial city was back in, say, the mid 1980s. How things change.

Buy land on the peripheries of the proposed city center apartment sites whilst it is still cheap, sell the prime location land that you are on, build new shops on the cheap land next to the expensive apartments, land which is now at a premium because the shitty supermarkets have gone and been replaced by flash flats and the income that goes with them. Simple innit.

it just angers me, in a time the city is trying to encourage solo traders, what chance have they got with all these giants in the city centre.

i agree, i am quite concerned at how big tesco's is getting and soon they could take over the country lol....

i wonder if its at all possible (actually i know for a fact it is) to limit the amount of supermarkets in the city centre...i recon it should happen now!

Surely this will end up coming full-circle. Early 90s Brum centre, there were pretty much no supermarkets. Then the flats started going up and now look at the situation.

The same is bound to happen in Cov.

I think we sometimes forget just how *laughable* the concept of living in the centre of ANY provincial city was back in, say, the mid 1980s. How things change.

That's the thing - Sainsbury's shut down their express a year ago, and the Co-Op, next to two planned 16 storey apartment blocks, a stone's throw from Belgrade Plaza and Park Court, has just closed down to be demolished and turned into Ikea. They are closing down just as all these apartments are being built. Yet there are no retail units for new supermarkets to open up in now. I know someone who lives in a city centre apartment in Cov, and they're annoyed at the lack of food shopping nearby. It's quite a problem.

i think its similar up ere in newcastle. there are quite a a few apartments going up, esp at the quayside. however, we only had one dedicated supermarket.....and that was Safeway....that turned into a morrisons and then closed....now all that is left is a Co-op (part of a co-op department store) which is being sold off soon and then there just marks and spencer...thats all!

I don't think there are too many, in most cases each one serves its own business community. For example Sainsbury's at brindly place. Regarding the Tesco at Caxon-Gate, that place is always packed how can you say it is not a good use of the space.

i didnt say that they werent being used nor that they were unsuccessfull....but all these brand new prime developments which should be encouragine brand new names to the city...but the giant of tesco comes along and snaps them up before anyone else has a look in!

i didnt say that they werent being used nor that they were unsuccessfull....but all these brand new prime developments which should be encouragine brand new names to the city...but the giant of tesco comes along and snaps them up before anyone else has a look in!

How is that any different from the situation outsde city centres? What sort of other names are you thinking of, small traders? How do they afford the rents in new developments?

You're right though, Tesco is far too powerful. Although they appear to realise they are on dangerous monopolistic ground, they are meant to be looking to grow more overseas than in the UK.

On a different note, I wonder just how much demand there is for city centre apartments. They seem to be everywhere - is the demand for city centre living really that huge?

Demand is huge. The Rotunda sold all it's apartments in a few hours. Orion snapped up all of it's apartments quick also. I have a feeling Masshouse has sold all as well.

Tesco are getting too big, and they are now trying to hurt other sectors in the retail market. They want to sell cheap knock off electrical products for example, yay for the elctronics sector, it's about to be taken over by a new monopoly.

since they tried to sell cheap TVs and DVD players, companies like Dixons are finding it hard. They are closing all their stores within city and town centres and opening large retail outlets like Dixons XL and Dixons Warehouse. Tesco has pushed people out of city centres looking for electrical products, Dixons are folowing the consumers.

On a different note, I wonder just how much demand there is for city centre apartments. They seem to be everywhere - is the demand for city centre living really that huge?

I have my doubts. A recent report highlighted that 2/3 of apartments in City Centre developments are bought by investors. These are rented out or left empty.

The communities are not sustainable, as they do not attract families. Instead, they are mainly being used by young, single people who tend to move on after a few years. I believe the plan was to make city centres more European, where most of the buildings tends to be apartments, with shops and offices at ground levels. In Spain, for instance, towns consist of mainly apartment blocks.

In Britain people who get married and start families prefer new housing estates or smaller towns they can commute from. When we came to sell our semi-inner city terraced house in Coventry - 4 bed Victorian terrace - estate agents just said that they didn't know what to do with it. For the price, you could get a 3 bed semi on a new estate in a semi-rural location. They said families don't tend to want terraced houses in inner city areas. New buyers prefer the cheaper 2 bedroom terraces (which were 30,000K then - now 100,000K) or the new terraces on the new builds. In the end, we sold to an investment buyer who was going to rent to students. No one else was interested.

There's been a few reports recently about this. They are getting seriously worried that all these new apartment blocks are not going to have the desired effect - which was to create city centre communities.

In Coventry, there is a housing association called Starley Road. They are based on a road of old Edwardian houses that were saved from demolition in the 1970s. It's a fabulous example of a sustainable community - all walks live there, including single people, families, etc. They have just built a large apartment block next door as part of the housing association. I don't see any of the new high rise blocks being this varied of successful.

Some of the reports here:

http://www.ippr.org.uk/centreforcities/pressreleases/

Highlight some of this. One problem is the lack of jobs in City centres, and the majority of people living in them seem to be students.

i guess the only thing we can do is not shop at Tesco in protest. Obviously its going to take more than just a handful of people from this forum to make them sit up and listen but the good thing is that Tesco have had a lot of bad press lately regarding their empire-building and their arrogant attitude towards planning permission.

Supermarkets are vital for city-centre living but it would be nice if the big boys like Tesco, Asda and Sainsbury's were put on a leash

i guess the only thing we can do is not shop at Tesco in protest. Obviously its going to take more than just a handful of people from this forum to make them sit up and listen but the good thing is that Tesco have had a lot of bad press lately regarding their empire-building and their arrogant attitude towards planning permission.

Supermarkets are vital for city-centre living but it would be nice if the big boys like Tesco, Asda and Sainsbury's were put on a leash

The big problem with supermarkets is that are diversifying into other areas - music and books being one. This is fine, but they offer a very small selection and soak up the sales of new bestsellers that traditional bookshooks/recordshopse require to subsidise keeping lesser know music/authors on the shelves. In short, supermarkets are reducing choice and ultimately destroying creative industries.

I refuse to buy books or music in supermarkets, even if it is cheaper.

The big problem with supermarkets is that are diversifying into other areas - music and books being one. This is fine, but they offer a very small selection and soak up the sales of new bestsellers that traditional bookshooks/recordshopse require to subsidise keeping lesser know music/authors on the shelves. In short, supermarkets are reducing choice and ultimately destroying creative industries.

I refuse to buy books or music in supermarkets, even if it is cheaper.
Apart from the other problems the Music Industry is having right now (huge decrease in sales and illegal downloading gone crazy), the only remaining part of the record industry is in CD sales, and the supermarkets have takena big share. Look up on the web articles about HMV and how they are struggling to cope. Not good.

I'm refereing as the music and record industries as two different things.

. One problem is the lack of jobs in City centres, and the majority of people living in them seem to be students.
Where on earth does it say that? The nearest I can find is that half of those in Liverpool are students. I know very few students on the centre of Birmingham.

Apart from the other problems the Music Industry is having right now (huge decrease in sales and illegal downloading gone crazy), the only remaining part of the record industry is in CD sales, and the supermarkets have taken a big share. Look up on the web articles about HMV and how they are struggling to cope. Not good.

I'm refereing as the music and record industries as two different things.

The rise of the supermarkets in music sales does have an effect, but one of the problems with HMV is lazy pricing.

Sure, you can pick up chart stuff at 9.99 or less, but I've lost count of how many times I've been looking for slightly more (and i really do mean 'slightly') obscure stuff and found it priced at 16.99 - 19.99 or some absurd price.

To be honest, I struggle to have any sympathy for HMV, which lest we forget owns Waterstones, which in turn has decimated the independent book retail market and is trying to pummel what remains of the competition by buying Ottakars.

I used to buy alll my music as a kid from Midland Music in Hall Green, or Reddingtons Rare Records or Cyclops in town. Gone are those days :-(

Apart from the other problems the Music Industry is having right now (huge decrease in sales and illegal downloading gone crazy), the only remaining part of the record industry is in CD sales, and the supermarkets have takena big share. Look up on the web articles about HMV and how they are struggling to cope. Not good.

I'm refereing as the music and record industries as two different things.

I don't believe that downloads are the cause, it's just a smokescreen. The music industry has killed itself off by producing rubbish for years. They killed all their "midlist" artists that generate a steady income in order to pump money into crap boy bands and girl bands. Now they're suffering. CD sales are actually increasing, as are legal downloads.

Where on earth does it say that? The nearest I can find is that half of those in Liverpool are students. I know very few students on the centre of Birmingham.

It doesn't I was referring to the Liverpool report - there have been reports recently about the city centre living, and one used Brum as one of the cities in the case study. I can't find the link, but it was on the BBC news page months back. The ultimate conclusion was that city centre living wasn't turning out to be the huge success they wanted.

The rise of the supermarkets in music sales does have an effect, but one of the problems with HMV is lazy pricing.

Sure, you can pick up chart stuff at 9.99 or less, but I've lost count of how many times I've been looking for slightly more (and i really do mean 'slightly') obscure stuff and found it priced at 16.99 - 19.99 or some absurd price.

To be honest, I struggle to have any sympathy for HMV, which lest we forget owns Waterstones, which in turn has decimated the independent book retail market and is trying to pummel what remains of the competition by buying Ottakars.

I used to buy alll my music as a kid from Midland Music in Hall Green, or Reddingtons Rare Records or Cyclops in town. Gone are those days :-(

ASDA were selling a FISH compilation for 9.00 pounds, when FISH himself had to sell it for 11.99. ASDA were making a loss. Their tactics are killing artists.

Then again, since when did this government give a damn? They've used licensing laws to close down most of the folk clubs in the country.

It doesn't I was referring to the Liverpool report - there have been reports recently about the city centre living, and one used Brum as one of the cities in the case study. I can't find the link, but it was on the BBC news page months back. The ultimate conclusion was that city centre living wasn't turning out to be the huge success they wanted.


studentd can not afford to live in city centre and i would be highly supprised if there was a high student population in the city centre outside student accom!

also, i recently read an article on city centre living in the UK and that stated that we are far from going toward the european living situation and more to what they called the Manhatten effect. in the uk, now, its a hierachy thing...living in the highest, best looking block....

in this system, the city centre apartments are only for workers within the cities. in NY for example,. there are VERY few families living in manhatten, they all live on the edge, new jersey for example....and the city apartments are there for the constantly renewing levels of people working within the city......and its seems to be working.....

an example is the likes of the first ever blcok to be built along the canal in birmingham.....the people are now older and want to move out to raise a family.....their flats that they left are just as desirable now as they were then they were originally built!

How is that any different from the situation outsde city centres? What sort of other names are you thinking of, small traders? How do they afford the rents in new developments?

You're right though, Tesco is far too powerful. Although they appear to realise they are on dangerous monopolistic ground, they are meant to be looking to grow more overseas than in the UK.

On a different note, I wonder just how much demand there is for city centre apartments. They seem to be everywhere - is the demand for city centre living really that huge?


it is differentr because on the outskirts of a city, large supermarkets are built by the supermarkets themselves...they apply for planning to build their own supermarket. in the city centre, the units are built by developers and sold on the open market......

the problem is that as for the likes of caxton gate, thats a massive 2 storey shop on the busiest shopping street...just imagine the other big na,mes we could have attracted!?!?!?

studentd can not afford to live in city centre and i would be highly supprised if there was a high student population in the city centre outside student accom!


Yes, but if the apartments are being bought by investment companies, they can rent them out to students. I knew students who lived in city centre apartments in 1989 when I was an undergraduate.

Apart from the other problems the Music Industry is having right now (huge decrease in sales and illegal downloading gone crazy), the only remaining part of the record industry is in CD sales, and the supermarkets have takena big share. Look up on the web articles about HMV and how they are struggling to cope. Not good.


You mean massive increase in sales, singles market may have collapsed, but album sales are an all time high!

Strange if you reduce the prices sales goes up, for years they've been saying it dosn't work like that...

Incidentally, you've placed a Sainsburys on Bennetts Hill, which closed over 12 months ago...

What's the fuss about.... how can there be too many supermarkets in the city when there is an ever growing city centre population and there are so many empty shop units?

Anybody who's been in the Tesco metro on New St would know that it's far too busy and clearly needs some more competition but there's an obvious reason why the sainsburys on benetts hill closed.... nobody knew it was there.. we need other larger city centre supermarkets like the tesco metro (which is over 2 floors) but in good accessible locations like new st.

its like everyone needs to eat lunch...... but now one would want shit loads of gregs everywhere.........most people like coffee....but quite a few people have probelms with the amount of starbucks!

I understand the anti homogonisation argument but i don't agree it applies to city centre supermarkets.

Supermarkets are not meant to be mom and pop stores (as they call them in America) or individual like cafe's can be (& I LIKE STARBUCKS TOO). If u had a local butcher IN A SMALL TOWN that you liked that was put out of busines by a supermarket i'd have sympathy (but not much). But we r talking about the second city's main streets... that ought to be the sort of place that we are attracting large multinational corporations to.

City living feeds the trend for city supermarkets but everybody benefits as it provides a new service... ie being able to do the bulk of your food shopping when you come out of the office rather than having to go to a large out of town supermarket probably by car another time.

I totally agree Engels.

Id much rather have tesco and sainsburys little stores than Londis, SelectandSave, seveneleven or any of those. Spar is OK though.

To be honest, I am not particularly against Supermarkets in the CC, and people quite clearly want to use them. I just think it a shame there are no independant food retailers in the City Centre, ie Butchers, bakers (Graggs aside), greengrocers, Delicatessens etc, It is one of the things that I liked the most about Cities with real City Living, such as Paris and New York.

Small businesses like these have been in decline in the UK mainly due to Sub-urbanism and car-centric consumers, supermarkets are pretty much a by product of this not necessarily the cause. But the re-invetion of City living means we could once again have sufficent densities of population to support them. I think this is shown in various Cities across the UK where indies are performing well. If anyone visits Wolvo or Walsall will see traditional family butchers and greengrocers not only operating but thriving in the middle of modern towns. The problem is Birminghams traditional CC indies left years ago, and no-one is starting new ones, this is where supermarkets come in... the more supermarkets the more difficult it is for indies to enter the market.

Its all about creating a City with character, I don't want to live in Clonesville, I want to live in Birmingham, I want to say, "We have this great .... in Birmingham I will have to take you there sometime" Without them saying, "yes we have tesco here too"

Sorry about the rant, I shouldn't be allowed to post this late...

thankyou MJH, this is exactly the point im making

my sentiments exactly, MJH. I don't particularly want to see wall-to-wall Tescos and Sainsbury's even though they do have a their place; but I would much prefer some character and diversification and seen in most major European cities. A city needs to be an interesting place to live, eat and shop IMHO

I am hopeful that with the advent of Bullring, Martineau Place and Martineau Galleries, as well as the new Pallasades (whatever happens to it), they will attract the chains, allowing rents to drop elsewhere and let independents move in.

We are getting sufficient densities now to allow deli's etc open.

Harborne has a new deli! :)

harborne has a new deli...where?

Right in the middle - you know the set-back bit where WHSmiths and the fishmongers is? It is a few doors down from the fishmongers.

It's lovely - breads, preserves, meats, cheese, wine. Perfect. I think Harborne's on the up again, and partly thanks to M&S I suspect.

is the deli still there that used to be by the oxfam up towards marks and sparks or has that gone now..used to love going there!

btw, i know this is moving a little bit away from the topic but i also noticed that mc donalds ion harborne had closed...... what happened?

Right in the middle - you know the set-back bit where WHSmiths and the fishmongers is? It is a few doors down from the fishmongers.

It's lovely - breads, preserves, meats, cheese, wine. Perfect. I think Harborne's on the up again, and partly thanks to M&S I suspect.

Harborne will soon be the most desirable place to live in the country, once Blunther moves there in summer ;)

The old deli went ages ago Woody. Run by that Italian guy? It was lovely.

Yeah - Maccy D's has gone :cheer: :banana: :pepper: :carrot:

You moving to Harborne Blunth? Whereabouts? It is a toss up for me whether it is town or Harborne, and I think town will win...

but is this a good thing??? can anyonethink of a place where an mcdonalds have actually closed before????
i hope the plot doesnt stay empty for long..... not a nice looker

You moving to Harborne Blunth? Whereabouts? It is a toss up for me whether it is town or Harborne, and I think town will win...

Hopefully yeah. No idea really... wherever we can find a house with three double bedrooms for a reasonable cost I guess! :)

so thats not harborne then?

You want to head over to Erdington, Its on the up, big three storey townhouse, area with ...character, sub 160k

Hopefully yeah. No idea really... wherever we can find a house with three double bedrooms for a reasonable cost I guess! :)
...£300k...

Actually, Harborne Lane (Selly Oak) or Harborne Park Road might be OK. Or bits around the Scarlet Pimpernel pub?

They've built some new homes by the Scarlet Pimp - all sold apparently.

Must check out this deli on Harborne High Street. Didn't realise MaccyD has bit the dust - happy days are here again!

We're renting :)

Four of us.

I can't afford a one bed flat in Aston, sadly, so I think a three bed in HArborne's a tad out of my league for the next 500 years or so...

ANyone been for a curry at the Pimp yet? My mate went and reckons it's bosting. I've popped in for a drink after the refurb, but not for curry. Clever idea though building it into a pub!

Where do you live Bio? Isn't it Harborne somewhere?

I am hopeful that with the advent of Bullring, Martineau Place and Martineau Galleries, as well as the new Pallasades (whatever happens to it), they will attract the chains, allowing rents to drop elsewhere and let independents move in.

We are getting sufficient densities now to allow deli's etc open.

Harborne has a new deli! :)

I really hope so, I really do. I've always felt it reflects badly on Birmingham that in the midst of the city centre regeneration we haven't been able to support independent food shops. A few years ago three delis opened in a short space of time; one at Summerow between Apres and Mechu, Fino in the Mailbox, and Haran & Nichol at Brindleyplace. None lasted very long. The Summerow was converted into Mix@Mechu, Fino moved to a different unit in the Mailbox and changed from a deli/cafe to a straight cafe/bar, and Haran & Nichol closed, be be replaced by a Hudsons Coffee House franchise which has also closed. We do have Paxton & Whitfield in the old Fino unit, and the Hudsons on Colmore Row, but given the number of affluent people living and working in the city centre, and all we get is these chains of coffee shops and bageutte shops, does it show a certain lack of sophistication, or am I just being a food snob?

but is this a good thing??? can anyonethink of a place where an mcdonalds have actually closed before????
i hope the plot doesnt stay empty for long..... not a nice looker

It was reported here; http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/tm_objectid=16798206%26method=full%26siteid=50002-name_page.html

"BURGER fans are clearly not "lovin'" their McDonald's - one of Birmingham's oldest branches has had its chips after 22 years of trading.

The closure of McDonald's, in Harborne High Street, could be bad news for trade on a road already struggling with empty shops and high rents and rates.

Harborne is the only branch in Birmingham facing the axe after the fast food chain announced last month that it is closing 25 branches across the country in a bid to improve profits."

I found it interesting that "Phil Stokes, honorary secretary of the Harborne Society, said: "It's very disappointing that this branch is closing because it's always been a great people puller" and "Coun Deirdre Alden, Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Edgbaston, said: "It worries me that a company like McDonald's feels trading patterns have changed to such an extent that they feel they need to move out."

They seem to think McD's closing means Harbourne is on the decline, I and several people here seem to think it indicates the opposite. Do the Harbourne Society want a high street of Greggs bakers, Starbucks coffee shops and Burger Kings? Or quality independent shops, bars and restaurants that would make Harbourne a really desirable place to live and drive up house prices (sorry Blunther!)?

We're renting :)

Four of us.

I can't afford a one bed flat in Aston, sadly, so I think a three bed in HArborne's a tad out of my league for the next 500 years or so...

ANyone been for a curry at the Pimp yet? My mate went and reckons it's bosting. I've popped in for a drink after the refurb, but not for curry. Clever idea though building it into a pub!

Where do you live Bio? Isn't it Harborne somewhere?

I used to live in Harborne, but not too far away now, although that should change again soon...

Family or friends to live with? You can always get one on the Quinton Road (leading away from the Golden Cross pub) - they are more affordable and on the edge of Harborne (10 min walk to the Green Man).

Not tried the curry at the pub but been tempted. I wish they'd finish painting the outside :lol:

I used to live in Harborne, but not too far away now, although that should change again soon...

Family or friends to live with? You can always get one on the Quinton Road (leading away from the Golden Cross pub) - they are more affordable and on the edge of Harborne (10 min walk to the Green Man).

Not tried the curry at the pub but been tempted. I wish they'd finish painting the outside :lol:

We're gonna piss Woodenhouse off with our off-topic ramblings :laugh:

Living with a couple of mates and me bird. We can share a room, but mates both want a decent size bedroom.. one's a girl, which is self-explanatory (clothes clothes clothes, with a total area equivalent to that of Wales), and the other's lived in our box room for over a year now and he's pissed off, bless him.

We always thought Harborne was far too pricey (paying £650/month at the mo), until we were looking at two beds, and you can get a decent two bed tezza for £475 which astonished me). We'd like to live close to the action (well, the pubs and takeaways at least) and Quinton Road's a bit far for us. 10 minute walk to the green man?!?! Are you 43905 foot tall?! :)

If not Harbers, then probably Bearwood again. Would like to live in Mose, but that's far too pricey, as is city centre, especially as I'm htinking of going to uni next year.

It was reported here; http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/tm_objectid=16798206%26method=full%26siteid=50002-name_page.html

"BURGER fans are clearly not "lovin'" their McDonald's - one of Birmingham's oldest branches has had its chips after 22 years of trading.

The closure of McDonald's, in Harborne High Street, could be bad news for trade on a road already struggling with empty shops and high rents and rates.

Harborne is the only branch in Birmingham facing the axe after the fast food chain announced last month that it is closing 25 branches across the country in a bid to improve profits."

I found it interesting that "Phil Stokes, honorary secretary of the Harborne Society, said: "It's very disappointing that this branch is closing because it's always been a great people puller" and "Coun Deirdre Alden, Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Edgbaston, said: "It worries me that a company like McDonald's feels trading patterns have changed to such an extent that they feel they need to move out."

They seem to think McD's closing means Harbourne is on the decline, I and several people here seem to think it indicates the opposite. Do the Harbourne Society want a high street of Greggs bakers, Starbucks coffee shops and Burger Kings? Or quality independent shops, bars and restaurants that would make Harbourne a really desirable place to live and drive up house prices (sorry Blunther!)?

It's cobblers. Good riddance is what I say. The other hot food retailers seem to be managing fine, and might manage even better without McD's.

I would like to see independent clothes shops, another music retailer, couple more resturants, a bar and a food shop open :)

To be honest I think that problem with Indies is the City too, there is still very much a culture of come - work - go, a lot of people I work with don't even go out for Lunchtimes, which I think is a real shame. I took my Dad to Hudsons on Colmore Row recently and he has been raving about it since, in fact I think he has even taken some colleagues there, he has worked in Birmingham for 30 years, but he doesn't know it at all because he never spends any time here.

I think the City Centre is still perceived as somewhere you don't go and wander, After 5.30 you definately get a sence of exodus, Why is that? How could it be changed?

Wolverhampton are chucking out the indies as well with their developments.

They are offering a substantial discount for the first year to try to keep them, however, the council havn't noticed that this discount is 3 - 4 times the price they are at now. They will get fleeced in the second year. Bye bye Sevenoaks store in Wolverhampton. :(

in harborne, i am still supprised that the office block that recently got a refurb near all electric has a unit for a wine bar on the ground floor and thats still empty now....wats that all about?

i dont mind McD going, but i hope it doesnt stay empty long!

well i won't be sorry to see maccy'ds go, the place was either half empty or full of chavs trying to sell you knocked off bling.

I will admit there is a bit of an identity crisis going on in the High Street with a number of shops closing and perhaps too many charity shops, estate agents and, dare I say it, boozers.

But hopefully with the redevelopment of the old Electric/Rover garage showroom and Vine pub, to be both turned into apartments it may generate new life and more shopping diversity into the area. Especially if professional people move in, it might attract new investment in terms of more interesting shops

I really hope so, I really do. I've always felt it reflects badly on Birmingham that in the midst of the city centre regeneration we haven't been able to support independent food shops. A few years ago three delis opened in a short space of time; one at Summerow between Apres and Mechu, Fino in the Mailbox, and Haran & Nichol at Brindleyplace. None lasted very long. The Summerow was converted into Mix@Mechu, Fino moved to a different unit in the Mailbox and changed from a deli/cafe to a straight cafe/bar, and Haran & Nichol closed, be be replaced by a Hudsons Coffee House franchise which has also closed. We do have Paxton & Whitfield in the old Fino unit, and the Hudsons on Colmore Row, but given the number of affluent people living and working in the city centre, and all we get is these chains of coffee shops and bageutte shops, does it show a certain lack of sophistication, or am I just being a food snob?


there's some truth in what your saying but the problem with independent places is they are variable in quality.

the three delis you mention all pretty much opened at the same time as the Seflfridges food hall and the revamped HoF World of Food ( which is excellent). Fino- never paid rent and was a stop gap until something else came along, the one at summerow was opened too early before islingtoin gates was finished and hara and nicol was overpriced and Franky not very good. there was also one in JQ all round the same time (Elliots?) but it was poor.

You only have to look at how busy NATA is to see that when its good enough an independent food shop will do well.

There are some lower end foreign delis on Hagley road. Ive never used them though.